Ep 1363 ļ½ Female Pastors in the Bibleļ¼ Responding to a Pastorās TakeĀ
Episode Stats
Harmful content
Misogyny
9
sentences flagged
Toxicity
1
sentences flagged
Hate speech
55
sentences flagged
Summary
God's eternal plan of redemption is 100% going off without a hitch, completely and totally. There is nothing that has happened that God s said, wow, that was a detour that I did not see. No matter what s going on in your life, whether it s your own personal trial, or looking at all of the chaos in the news, or on social media, God s not surprised by any of it. He s not taking it back. He's not wondering what the heck happened. And the good thing about God and his work that he is constantly doing is that it typically doesn t make the headlines. He is working through the mostly unseen and unsung acts of faithfulness and courage by His children, not just here, but everywhere in the world. That is how God accomplishes his work. And we can rest assured that there are no roadblocks, no obstacles whatsoever. His word does not return void.
Transcript
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Etsy has announced that they are no longer going to allow the sale of spellcasting and witchcraft
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on their site. Is that really true? And where did this decision come from? Also, there's been a
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backlash against the Southern Baptist Convention and their stance against women preaching and being
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pastors, but the arguments being put forth by other pastors, they just aren't good. We've got
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all of that, plus a voicemail with a very juicy question, interesting question. At the end of
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today's episode, it's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com,
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use code Allie at checkout. That's goodranchers.com, code Allie.
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Hey, y'all. Welcome to Relatable. Happy Monday. Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend,
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that you've had a wonderful day so far. God's eternal plan of redemption, it is 100% going off
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without a hitch, completely and totally. There is nothing that has happened that God's like,
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wow, that was a detour that I did not see. No matter what's going on in geopolitics,
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no matter what's going on in our country, no matter what's going on in your life,
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whether it's your own personal trial or you're looking at all of the chaos going on in the news
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or on social media, God's not surprised by any of it. He's not taking it back. He's not wondering
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what the heck happened? How did this go on? How am I going to come in there and clean up the mess?
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Oh my goodness. You got yourself into this trouble. Now you got to get yourself out. That's not how
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it works. God is completely sovereign. He's not limited by time and space. He's not checking his
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timeline, wondering what's going on. He's not catching up on the latest headlines or what's
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going viral. And the good thing about God and his work that he is constantly doing is that it
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typically doesn't make the headlines. It's typically not what is popular on social media.
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he is working through the mostly unseen and unsung acts of obedience by his children,
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not just here, but everywhere in the world. I mean, acts of faithfulness and courage for the
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faith, for the gospel that we will never ever know about. That is how God accomplishes his work.
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It advances his kingdom. And we can rest assured that that is going off without a hitch. There are
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no roadblocks, no obstacles whatsoever. God is seeking and saving the lost and he will accomplish
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his purpose. His word does not return void. And Romans 8, 28 through 30 is so triumphant for all
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of us that he is working all things, all means all, together for the good of those who love him
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and are called according to his purpose. And even those really difficult things that you're going
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through, that your child is going through, that you're like, I never would have picked that for
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myself. I certainly wouldn't pick my child to endure that somehow. That is in the life of the
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believer, creating a far greater glory for us that's going to outweigh all the trouble that
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we experience here in this life. It's a mystery exactly how that works, but we know it does.
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And at the very least, it builds anticipation for heaven. This world is not our home. We are
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exiles, and one day there will be no more sorrow, no more sadness, no more war, no more treaties,
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no more politics, none of that. Jesus will rule in perfect peace forever and ever. Yes and amen.
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I like to start out the week on Mondays with that reminder, not just for you, but also
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for myself. And I've heard from so many of you that that line, God's eternal plan of redemption
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is going off without a hitch has brought a lot of peace to you. And it's just an echoing of God's
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truth that he gives us in his word. Read Psalm 37 today, if you haven't lately. All right. If you
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have not checked out my big interview with vice president, JD Vance, then you should go do that.
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obviously a lot is happening in the geopolitical world. And my little podcast relatable had the
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honor of sitting down with a VP, talking to him about faith, his book, and also just the state
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of our country, the state of the world. And so it really was an honor to get to do that. Go back,
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watch it on YouTube. Listen, if you have not done that already, also Christian women, you want to
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00:04:47.700
All right, let's get into everything that we are talking about today. We're talking about Etsy
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and witchcraft. Now, those two things don't seem like they would go together. What the heck does
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Etsy, what started as this, you know, a place that you could go buy crafts and handmade items
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and some vintage goods, what does that have to do with witches and people casting spells on others?
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You might remember several months ago after Charlie Kirk was assassinated, there was a story
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circulating. Actually, it circulated right before he died that someone had paid a witch on Etsy to
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cast a spell on Charlie Kirk. And this was apparently very disturbing, understandably,
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and destabilizing for Charlie and Erica and their family because Christians know that demonic
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activity is real and that witchcraft is real because Satan is real. And he works through
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these means that might just seem silly and superstitious, but actually are vectors and
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vessels of his workings and of his power. Now, before we start, I just want to comfort you,
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and we'll get into this a little bit more. This witchcraft doesn't have any dominion over the
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Christian. We are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. He who is in us is greater than he who is in the
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world. Romans 8, we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. That does not mean
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that we should be flipping about it or that it doesn't have any power. Ephesians 2 describes
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Satan as the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is at work and the sons of disobedience
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among whom we all once walked. So the working of Satan's power is all around us at all times and
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obviously can manifest itself in different ways in the world that affects us. And we still deal
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with sin. However, witchcraft and spells, I believe biblically have no power over us because
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we are under the dominion and the protection of Christ. However, because of its evil and because
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of the effect that it has on culture, the effect that it has on societies, we really have to care
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when it's becoming popularized, when it's becoming normalized, when it's becoming
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commercialized, when billions and billions of dollars are being made by people casting
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spells on others through a seemingly innocuous site like Etsy, we've got a problem. Like we've
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got a spiritual sickness in our culture and the gospel is the answer. So let's get into it. Let's
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look at what Etsy is doing and whether or not they're still doing this because there was a
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recent story in Vice that Etsy actually stopped selling witchcraft. Why? So Etsy is a $6 billion
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arts and crafts online retailer, um, has a history of showcasing sellers who have offered to pay,
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uh, offered pay spell work such as love spells, curses, protection rituals,
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money manifestations, and clairvoyant readings. So like psychic readings. And we talked about
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this several years ago, it might've been in 2021, the rise of witch talk and these TikTok influencers
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who claim to be witches and claim to have some access to special power, showing you how to
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manifest things in your life. Now, if you're wondering, wow, this just sounds a lot like
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self-help talk, new age manifestation. Yes, those things are very intertwined. Not to say that all
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self-improvement content is witchcraft, but the through line there really is the belief in the
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power of the self and that the self has this ability and has this authority to have control
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over the future, control over other people, control over your fate by channeling some
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supernatural power that is not only out in the universe, but also exists deep down inside us.
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We talked a lot about this in my first book, You're Not Enough, and That's Okay.
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Um, according to vice earlier this year, the site began pulling supernatural content,
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such as spell vendors, despite having a policy in place since 2015 that bans these kinds of
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listings. Okay. So they've technically banned them, but they didn't really enforce that because
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for years and years and years, we've had these witches be able to make money by casting spells
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on other people or at least selling their spells. Now Etsy's policy says metaphysical services may
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not be sold on Etsy. Examples of prohibited metaphysical services include Reiki and distance
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healing, spell casting, including attunement, binding, activation, and similar services,
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prayers, rituals, items that advertise a metaphysical outcome, attracting wealth,
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love, gambling, luck, more business, employment opportunities, or assistance with legal or
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relationship situations. And I am sure that there are some legal reasons for this,
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but when you're selling intangible things and you're kind of commercializing these
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spiritual abstract practices, it's obviously rife with the potential for fraud and all
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different kinds of things and can also be very damaging if people don't feel like they got
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their money's worth. So what actually is though being sold on Etsy? What are the spells and why
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are people buying these spells? What the heck does this look like? We'll get into that in a second.
00:10:08.400
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Okay, let me give you some examples of things that people are actually buying. And if they're
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not buying them on Etsy, you see this kind of stuff on Instagram all of the time. The sad thing
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is a lot of this stuff is by people who claim to be pastors, who claim they might not be selling
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a spell, but they're saying, if you declare this, if you say this, if you give me this much money,
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these health and wealth, fake heretic ministers, then you will get this much in return. It has
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nothing to do with Christianity and much more to do with witchcraft, but it's really evil when
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people pretend that it's Christian. Here's what it looks like on Etsy. Millionaire spell,
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millionaire dollar spell, wealth spell, abundance spell, same day casting. Okay. So you can pay
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your $14 and 70 cents and this spellcaster will cast the spell for you to become a millionaire
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that day. Fast, efficient, and great communication will continue to manifest. So if you don't see
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that million dollars today, don't worry. One day you will. And remember that $14 and 70 cents that
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you paid. This worked wonders for me. One review says money came in out of nowhere. I will continue
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to use. I am sure that that is perfectly legitimate. Next one, avoidant to obsessed
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love spell because all great relationships start with forcing someone via demonic magic to like you
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and to not hate you. They're going from avoiding you completely. They see you in the hallway and
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they're like sick. I'm walking away from this person to just obsessed with this love spell.
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Okay. Um, $12 and five cents avoidant connections. The description says speaking quiet currents,
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distance, hesitation, mixed signals, confused about this emotions that pull close and then
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drift away. This spell by the spell works by tuning into that hidden current, the place where
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desire sits behind fear and longing hides beneath silence. There are some negative reviews on this
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one. Okay. I don't know. There could have been some positive reviews too. Some negative reviews.
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Not only did the spell not work, he actually got with someone else. No way. No way. You're lying.
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I thought, I thought for sure. Um, and then the next one, he didn't come back sad. And it actually,
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you know, like you make fun of this stuff because it's so ridiculous that anyone would put their
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faith or hope, but it actually is very sad. When you think about the desperation that someone
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has to have and just the longing, the unrequited love that someone has to feel, the purposelessness,
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the lostness that someone is embroiled in to believe this kind of advertisement and then to
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pay money for it. And maybe they even paid, you know, for multiple products, um, obviously only
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to deal with the heartbreak that they could have already tried healing from in the first place.
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It is very, very sad. And I think all the way from the beginning, because, you know, we see
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in, uh, we see in the old Testament when God is giving his rules and regulations and laws to
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Israel, when he's like, don't mess with this stuff. Obviously we have always had basically
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since the beginning of time, just a desire for control. Like how can we take this into our own
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hands? How can we channel the supernatural? I don't want to have to pray to God and submit to
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his will. I want my will to be done. I want to channel my power to be able to make this happen.
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It really is just another manifestation of exchanging the God of scripture for the God
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of self. Okay. So here's another one. Again, very scary things going on in the heart here.
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curse your enemy's hex spell. Okay. Photo proof. This advertisement says now photo proof of what?
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That's what I want to know. Fast result. Same day casting. Etsy, which hex your, your ex. Okay.
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Spell work is something I handle with caution and structure, especially in situations where
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emotional harm, betrayal, or imbalance has been left resolved. Okay. So one person,
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A positive review actually says works amazingly, maybe a little too well.
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Wow, how different is this from Jesus who says, you've heard it said, hate your enemies.
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Those are just a few examples that I gave you of these advertisements and people actually
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apparently purchasing them. But people are really not happy about the ban, the enforcement of the
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ban that Etsy has now put in place. A lot of these Etsy spellcasters, a lot of the people who have
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bought their spells are very angry. For example, there's a TikToker. Her name is Carol Joy. She
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expressed absolute shock at being unable to view her favorite spell vendors page. So a couple of
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months ago someone asked me who my etsy witch is and i'm a real one so of course i went to go get
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her link and when i went on etsy her shop was closed i'm panicking because that etsy witch
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helped me get tickets to ariana grande's eternal sunshine tour we need her i actually just saw
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that she responded a day later saying that etsy is suspending all spell casting sellers on their
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platform. What do you mean? Okay. So this is just one of several people who expressed this. I also
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saw if you type in on X, for example, like Etsy witch, you'll see all kinds of people going back
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and forth saying like, who's the Etsy witch that you use? Who cast that spell to help you to do
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that? This apparently is something that happens within social networks. Beatrix, who ran Celestial
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you'll craft spells on Etsy said this to the New York post on Etsy, which is had a place where we
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could complete our work without discrimination suddenly and quietly. They've removed us with
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no real explanations, whether it's an immediate ban or slowly taking down our listings. It feels
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like persecution. And like we are regressing back to the Salem, which trials really because you can
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no longer sell your fake spells on Etsy. You could do it through another way if you wanted to. Um,
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And you know, I say fake spells and I probably shouldn't say that because I do think in many
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cases, like I said, there's real demonic power at work. For example, that TikToker who says
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this spellcaster helped me get Ariana Grande tickets. That might actually, it could actually
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be true because Satan is a master at giving us a little bit of what we want. Like he will,
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allow us to be happy as long as it steals our ultimate joy. He will give us what we want now
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as long as we don't seek something higher in purpose and fulfillment in Christ. And so I
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actually don't put it past Satan to use this means to get people to have faith in things like
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witchcraft, even if it gives you something that you want temporarily, as long as he can win the
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long-term war for your soul. Some spell vendors are still on the platform. Apparently, a lot of
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sellers operate in this gray area by wording listings carefully. They'll say for entertainment
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only, or they're selling a candle with a ritual description or framing it as custom art digital
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files. So they're basically just lying. What I think is probably happening here is that even
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though Etsy has had this rule since 2015, after they had such bad PR with Charlie Kirk getting
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assassinated and that story coming out right before he was murdered about this person casting
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a spell via Etsy, they were like, it's not worth it. I don't think that the people at Etsy who are
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very anti pro-life and who are very pro-trans and pro-abortion, I don't think they have moral
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qualms with witchcraft. I think they don't want to be on the hook for the potential of fraud.
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They don't want to deal with the customer service issues of people not getting the outcome that they
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want. They don't want to deal with another negative PR campaign. I bet they got a lot of
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backlash for allowing someone to buy that kind of service and try to curse Charlie Kirk. So they're
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like, it's just, it's just not worth it. And so that's what I think is probably happening here.
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there are other sites that sell spells witchly uh fiverr sells spells spell work there's one
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on fiverr this person says i will do black magic spell removal bad spirits curse witchcraft on a
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on a monthly basis um you've got all kinds of services that people will sell online tarot card
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reading and things like that now why is this so successful like we used to you know drive by those
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psychics in a strip mall. And I would always just think it's really sad. Like it, there's just
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really sad looking. It just, there was nothing ever appealing to me about that. Maybe because
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I always understood that there is a real battle between good and evil light and darkness really
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exists. I was aware of spiritual warfare, but even beyond that, it just gave me the ick to look at
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these psychics. And it, it made me sad to think of the desperation that someone would feel to try
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to go to a medium or go to this random person who you have been convinced is endowed with a good
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kind of power that you want to employ. I just never wanted to mess with, with something like
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that, but it's extremely popular among Gen Z probably because of TikTok, maybe because of Etsy,
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but it's kind of a chicken or the egg thing. Why did Gen Z become so interested in the supernatural
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world? We'll get to that in just a second. Let me tell you about concerned women for America.
00:21:16.460
They have been around for decades fighting for the things that we as moms really care
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about, the sanctity of life, family-centered policy.
00:21:26.000
Right now, they are urging the Federal Communications Commission to address an outdated rating system
00:21:31.220
that is operated without meaningful input from parents on places like Netflix.
00:21:36.280
They found that about 41% of Netflix's G-rated, so-called child-friendly movies and shows
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And so CWA just wants transparency and they want the FCC to push for transparency so parents
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can make the best decisions possible for the content that their kids are watching.
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And the initial comment deadline for this petition closed on May 22nd, but a response
00:22:04.880
period has now opened until a deadline of June 22nd.
00:22:08.820
So if you want to add your name to this, if you want to make your voice heard when it
00:22:12.980
comes to rating transparency, go to concernedwomen.org slash Allie. Have your voice heard
00:22:19.960
concernedwomen.org slash Allie. So if you look through Witch Talk and Witches of Instagram,
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it's clear that many young women are still being led astray by influencers glamorizing witchcraft.
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This is a woman who shared her testimony of supporting Etsy witches. She purchased two
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spells and said that the outcomes were pretty astonishing, Satu. I paid two Etsy witches to
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cast spells for me within the past two months, and this is how it went. Within eight days,
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I received word that I was inheriting money, and it was unexpected. It wasn't an astronomical
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amount, but it was enough for me to pay off a credit card and put the rest in savings for a
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delicious rainy day. Literally two weeks later, I received three emails, three emails offering me
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partnerships and approval of proposals. First two emails were approved proposals that I sent
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out a month ago that I thought they ghosted. I have two of those meetings set up next week.
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Okay. A couple of things. She doesn't come across as genuine. She comes across like she's acting.
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So I actually don't really believe her so-called testimony anyway.
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But again, even if it is true, that is just proof that Satan will give you a little bit
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I think he's happy to give us some money because we read that the root or the love of money
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A lot of people, even people who profess to be Christians, assume that all prosperity
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is a blessing, that all success and all monetary gain is a sign of God's blessing for you.
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that is not necessarily true. There are a lot of rich, evil people in the world that God does not
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approve of. You know, I've seen artists before or even, you know, OnlyFans people. I talked about
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this on social media saying, you know, if God didn't approve of what I was doing, he wouldn't
00:24:19.380
give me so much success. He wouldn't allow me to make so much money. That is absolutely not true.
00:24:25.080
All kinds of things can crowd out our affections and rule our hearts. And that includes money,
00:24:30.760
I would say especially money, and there is no correlation whatsoever between that and
00:24:36.540
There's no biblical foundation for that whatsoever.
00:24:39.040
Prosperity can be a blessing, but it has to be stewarded for his glory, not used for our
00:24:47.080
There was a survey by the Springtide Research Institute that found that 13, their survey
00:24:53.920
was of 13 to 25-year-olds, and they found that 51% of respondents were participating
00:24:58.500
in a tarot card reading and fortune telling, 13 years old. Within that percentage, 17% were
00:25:04.120
practicing daily, 25% weekly, 27% monthly, and 31% less than once a month. The survey found that
00:25:13.100
divination practices were even common among young people who identify specifically as Russian or
00:25:19.640
Greek Orthodox. Not surprising at all. You can be mad at me for this, but there is a lot of voodoo,
1.00
00:25:26.500
a lot of superstition within those traditions because a lot of people, not everyone, but a lot
00:25:33.260
of people who identify as those have inherited those beliefs and really have no true authentic
00:25:40.480
faith to speak of. And there is also something like within the aesthetic, I think, of those
00:25:47.160
traditions that, um, seems to dovetail for some people with witchcraft. And that is also why,
00:25:56.480
um, Roman Catholics in Mexico and, uh, South America also practice witchcraft in the name
0.82
00:26:05.080
of Catholicism. There is a lot of, uh, connection and over an overlap there in those countries.
00:26:13.260
Also Mormons, that was a big group apparently, according to this research institute that also
00:26:19.400
practiced witchcraft and people who identified as Jewish. But Russian or Greek Orthodox the most,
00:26:25.960
then Mormons, then Jewish people also practice these divination practices. And it's like, okay,
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00:26:32.420
Jewish people, you were the first person to get the commandment from God. Do not do this. This
1.00
00:26:37.320
is bad news. Witchcraft is a practice, not necessarily a religion. So it's not exclusively
00:26:43.140
practiced by pagans and Wiccans. However, it is a sin no matter who practices it.
00:26:49.400
Many mistakenly believe that you can be a professing Christian and practice witchcraft.
00:26:53.200
I actually remember when I had my book club going several years ago during COVID,
00:26:57.540
there was a woman who seemed really nice and she left a comment about, you know, one of the books
00:27:02.080
that we were reading saying, I'm a witch and a Christian. You can totally be those at the same
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00:27:06.640
time, I actually apply my Christianity to my witchcraft. No, no, no. That is not the case.
00:27:13.520
I've heard people say they're Scientologists and they're also Christians, that you can be
00:27:17.500
a Scientologist and believe and worship in Jesus Christ. No, no, no, no. What fellowship does light
00:27:22.280
have with darkness? None. One respondent to this particular survey by this research institute said
00:27:27.880
there is such little ownership over a religious belief system that you're just told all the right
00:27:32.360
answers to. These other spiritual ways have a more personal connection. These personal aha
00:27:37.180
moments, this person also considers themselves to be Roman Catholic. Again, that is not something
00:27:42.900
that is very surprising to me. Now, none of the wonderful Catholics I know would ever support
1.00
00:27:48.200
practicing something like this, but in a lot of these traditions, there are a lot of people who
00:27:53.040
are actually just secular and actually just superstitious and still identify loosely with
00:27:58.620
being Catholic or being Orthodox or being Mormon. And I think that's part of the thing there.
00:28:02.960
There's a Vogue article that was titled, I know a good Etsy witch. Why Gen Z is turning to
00:28:07.840
witchcraft. A spiritual coach named Zeta Weber explained the popularity of social media witchcraft
00:28:13.620
like this. People are craving clarity. That is spot on. That is absolutely true and actually
00:28:19.560
extremely insightful and profound because people are craving clarity. That's why we talk all the
00:28:24.620
time, how pastors need to be as clear as possible, what a gift the word of God is, because people,
00:28:31.120
and I think Gen Z especially, they are craving clarity. Like, tell me what is true. That doesn't
00:28:36.480
mean Gen Z or anyone is ever going to like the truth or that they're always going to like the
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00:28:40.980
truth. But I do think people just want to know what is really going on. I don't trust the media.
00:28:46.100
I can't trust my professor. I don't trust what is going on on social media. Everything is filtered.
00:28:51.700
Everything is PR-ified. Tell me what is actually true. And people believe that they need to access
00:28:58.600
something that they cannot see, something underneath the surface to really give them
00:29:03.480
that clear insight. And so I get it. I think that's a desire that all of us have. But we also
00:29:09.400
have the desire as we read about in the garden with Adam and Eve and the serpent to be like
00:29:14.560
God. Do this and you will be like God. You'll know the things that God knows. You'll have the power
00:29:19.080
that he knows, you will have the knowledge of the difference between good and evil. That has
00:29:24.140
always been a temptation there. And so, yes, I do believe people want clarity, but they want divine
00:29:30.300
like power and knowledge too. It goes all the way back to the garden. The intention to seek an
00:29:36.500
alternative point of view has always existed. We all grew up knowing the eccentric aunt who went
00:29:42.220
to the psychics. Thankfully, I did not. Thank you, aunts, for not being that way. But what's changed
00:29:48.620
is the level of uncertainty people are facing, particularly since COVID, but also economically,
00:29:53.200
it's pushed people to explore guidance that feels deeper and more intuitive. They want to feel
00:29:58.560
connected to something that can help them make sense of what they're experiencing. I think that's
00:30:02.400
true. Like she's not writing from a Christian perspective, but I think that's true. This
0.99
00:30:06.560
reminds me of Ecclesiastes 3.11. God has made everything beautiful in its time, and he has also
00:30:12.020
put eternity into man's heart yet so that he could not find out what God has done from the beginning
00:30:19.760
to the end. And yet we want to. And so many people, instead of reading the word of God,
00:30:24.780
which gives us the best roadmap for that, which gives us the best understanding of who God is
00:30:29.400
and where everything comes from and why we're here, people want something else. And I think
00:30:33.360
one of the reasons why people will turn to psychics or to witchcraft rather than the word
00:30:38.860
of God rather than to Christianity, which offers true insight and wisdom and peace and understanding
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00:30:44.580
is because we have to die to self in Christianity. And a witch tells you, or a psychic tells you,
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00:30:52.240
do what you want to do. I'm here for you. I'm here to manifest your dream. I'm not here to tell you
00:30:58.180
that your desires are wrong. I'm not here to tell you to repent from your sin. In fact, everything
00:31:02.060
that you feel is just an indication of what you really want. And I'm here to give you what you
00:31:06.660
want. Who else tells us that throughout scripture in our lives? It's Satan. And so Christianity to
00:31:13.840
a lot of people, they think that it's a bigger burden that I have to, you know, I have to live
00:31:17.780
a certain way. I have to, um, I have to do all these things. I don't, I don't want to do that.
00:31:21.940
I don't want to give that up, but really it's the sin that's the burden. And you don't realize that
00:31:26.420
it's your constant distraught desire to want to be your own God. That's really burdening you.
00:31:31.980
Jesus's burden is light. Being a slave to sin is actually what's really hard. The choice to
00:31:38.460
participate in witchcraft is an act of rebellion against and rejection of God. So it's not possible
00:31:45.040
to be both at the same time. It's not possible to weave your witchcraft in to any semblance of
00:31:50.040
your Christian faith. Superstition has no place in the kingdom of God. It has no place in the heart
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00:31:56.600
and the mind of the Christian. And this is why I'm also so adamant about things that sound
1.00
00:32:02.300
Christian, but are really more new age and witchy. Like, oh, I looked at, I found this thing outside
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00:32:09.140
and I knew that it was God telling me this one thing because that doesn't foster peace and
00:32:14.440
clarity. It fosters anxiety because you are putting yourself in the driver's seat of determining
00:32:20.700
what God's specific will is in that situation, that's God's job. It's God's job. And he has
00:32:27.460
given us his word and his Holy Spirit to guide us. And we have to do the best that we possibly
00:32:32.720
infallibly can without relying on superstition in ourselves to try to figure that out.
00:32:37.180
So what does the Bible say about magic and witchcraft? It could not be more clear because
00:32:42.580
God loves us so much and he wants what's best for us. He says, don't mess with this at all.
00:32:46.660
We'll get into that in a second. Let me pause. Let me tell you about our next sponsor.
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Maybe it was recent, or maybe you saw, uh, the movie recently about David. I saw it. My family
00:33:01.220
saw it. It was really great, but there are things in that story that you may not know that you may
00:33:06.860
not have noticed. Maybe you never learned in church. Maybe you never saw in depictions of
00:33:10.580
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but also a story about fatherhood and sin and repentance and courage and what happens when
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00:34:23.460
So when God is giving his laws to Israel, there are lots of laws that draw distinctions between
00:34:30.040
how Israel, God's people, how they're supposed to act and how the outside world acts. Leviticus
00:34:36.700
1931, do not turn to mediums or necromancers. Necromancers, people who try to talk to the dead
00:34:42.400
or to seek out the dead. Do not seek them out. And so make yourselves unclean by them.
00:34:49.120
I am the Lord, your God. Okay. Long Island medium, these TLC shows, or they used to be on TLC when I
00:34:56.620
was younger, these podcasts that claim to be able to talk to the dead. Don't mess with those. It's
00:35:03.200
not that they're always wrong. They may be sometimes right. That's the scary part of things
00:35:08.540
because it is a satanic power. Don't do it. God doesn't say, oh, there's no power in these things.
00:35:15.180
He says, it's bad for you. It makes you unclean. He says to his people, Israel, don't seek them
00:35:22.300
out. Don't try to conjure up dreams of the dead. I see that a lot by Christians. Like they're
00:35:28.380
wanting to be visited by the dead in their dreams. And like, I understand the feeling of loss and
00:35:34.720
wanting that connection and wanting messages from the other side, because again, you think it's
00:35:39.300
going to give you insight or it's going to give you comfort. And I believe this verse is telling
00:35:44.300
us don't seek that out. And yes, this is old Testament law. We're not under all the old
00:35:49.160
Testament laws as Christians today, but we have to look at the principles in each law and ask
00:35:54.800
ourselves, is this still true today? Is the reasoning that he gives still true today?
00:36:02.400
There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering
00:36:06.240
that was inextricably intertwined with those who practice these pagan practices of witchcraft.
00:36:12.280
Anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens or a sorcerer or a charmer
00:36:18.880
or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things
00:36:27.320
And because of these abominations, the Lord, your God, is driving them out before you.
00:36:33.980
He hates it because of channeling a power that is not good and that is not his.
00:36:44.940
He broke faith with the Lord in that he did not keep the command of the Lord
00:36:52.500
Therefore, the Lord put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David, the son of Jesse.
00:37:02.580
Don't seek guidance from anyone else except for me.
00:37:05.460
We see in Malachi 3, 5, then I will draw near to you for judgment.
00:37:09.000
I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, against the adulterers, against those who
00:37:13.420
swear falsely, against those who oppress the hired worker and his wages, the widow and
00:37:18.420
the fatherless against those who thrust aside the sojourner and do not fear me says the lord of
00:37:24.060
hosts i think it's very interesting the category there that those who practice witchcraft those
00:37:29.980
who are adulterers having sex outside of marriage liars those who mistreat the hired worker don't
00:37:39.360
pay him what he's owed that is just as just as much it seems an abomination to the lord those
0.80
00:37:45.120
who oppress the widow, those who oppress the orphan, the vulnerable without a father. Makes
00:37:51.940
me think of the forced fatherlessness that we are pushing upon children today in the name of
00:37:57.520
love is love against those who thrust aside the sojourner and do not fear me, says the Lord of
00:38:04.580
hosts. Those are evil in the sight of the Lord. And it's not just the Old Testament. We can go
00:38:08.960
to the New Testament. One example, Galatians 5, 19 through 21. Now the works of the flesh are
00:38:14.380
evident. Sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy,
00:38:22.160
fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these.
00:38:28.620
I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom
00:38:34.480
of God. Again, so interesting, all the things that he lumps together. Sexual immorality,
00:38:39.280
enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalry, dissensions, divisions, envy.
00:38:47.440
I just want you to take stock of the people that you follow.
00:38:50.980
If any of the people that you follow, the podcasters that you listen to, the authors
00:38:55.140
that you read, if they are defined by those things, not the fruit of the spirit, enmity,
00:39:01.960
strife, jealousy, whether or not it's true sorcery or necromancy, calling upon the dead
00:39:07.560
in dreams, don't follow them. They're leading you down a bad path, an evil demonic path.
00:39:15.620
And God is really clear that people who do these things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
00:39:21.680
Scripture also shows us examples of believers repenting of witchcraft publicly as a testimony
00:39:27.040
of the power of the gospel. Acts 19, 18 through 20. Also, many of those who are now believers came
00:39:32.860
confessing and divulging their practices. And a number of those who had practiced magic arts
00:39:37.700
brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted the value of
00:39:42.840
them and found it came to 50,000 pieces of silver. So the word of the Lord continued to increase and
00:39:49.620
prevail mightily. And so people who came to the Lord, they repented. They had to give those things
00:39:56.680
up before following Christ or because they were following Christ. So witchcraft, Christianity,
1.00
00:40:04.480
they can't go together. Christians are protected from the power of witchcraft.
1.00
00:40:10.240
We are not under the authority of Satan. So we don't need to be paranoid there,
00:40:15.200
but we do need to be really clear. And we need to make sure that the things that we are consuming,
00:40:20.620
whether it's called new age, whether it's called self-love, whether it's called self-help,
00:40:24.300
whether it's called manifesting, that we're not playing around with that. It's really serious to
00:40:29.220
the God who loves us and the God who created us. If you are a parent allowing your kids to be
00:40:35.520
entertained by a Ouija board or entertained by tarot cards, it's not innocent. And I think we're
00:40:41.560
seeing more and more of this in literature, teen literature, teen entertainment. We're seeing it
00:40:46.500
all across social media and it is a danger. It is a danger to the heart and to the soul. It's
00:40:53.700
certainly something that destroys societies. If you look at the nations that are, um, filled with
1.00
00:40:59.900
voodoo and witchcraft, like Haiti, like many countries in Africa, you see their fate. Those
1.00
00:41:06.040
things I believe are very connected. I believe that Haiti's obsession with witchcraft and voodoo,
1.00
00:41:12.020
I'm not saying that it is like all of the despair that they're going through is necessarily a
00:41:17.180
judgment from God because of that. Like, I don't think that the children who are suffering and all
00:41:22.340
of that, that they're bearing the consequences of the adults, but they are the natural consequences
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00:41:28.700
to be in a pagan nation that is following these evil practices. It just leads to disorder. It
0.94
00:41:35.860
leads to chaos. It leads to hopelessness. It leads to immorality and violence always every time. And
00:41:41.680
God wants something better for us. If you want to know what's really going on, if you want real
00:41:45.800
insight, if you want real wisdom, go to the word of God, because he has given us those things.
00:41:51.400
in the book of James, we are promised that if you ask wisdom of God, he's faithful. He's going to
00:41:57.460
give it to you. Okay. And maybe there are some things we just don't need to know. Have we
00:42:01.880
considered that? Like maybe there are just some things that we are really trying to know, just
00:42:06.440
some things that we're really trying to control that we don't need to try to know or control.
00:42:10.580
Because if we knew those things, if we tried to control those things, it would be really bad.
00:42:15.980
It would give us anxiety. The outcome actually wouldn't be good. We don't always know what God
00:42:20.560
is up to. I remember reading this analogy by Tim Keller in Reason for God, that like if a child
00:42:26.000
can't understand, you know, your child, you're trying to give your child medicine, maybe it's
00:42:29.580
antibiotics or something that they need. They fight you. They don't want to do it. Or you got
00:42:33.620
to take a splinter out of their finger and they're freaking out. They're running away.
00:42:38.260
They can't even be reasoned with when you're telling them, hey, this is good for you. It's
00:42:43.580
going to hurt for a second, but I promise you want this splinter taken out of your foot.
00:42:47.860
you really can't reason with them at a certain age when they're say two or three years old,
00:42:52.920
you just got to hold them down and take the splinter out. And sometimes I think that it's
00:42:58.720
like that with, with God and us. And if there is that much of a difference in understanding between
00:43:04.280
two finite beings, an adult and a child, and we know we can't explain and give them all the
00:43:08.960
knowledge of what's going on because it couldn't, it wouldn't help anyway. Like, I think the same
00:43:13.540
thing is true between an infinite God and us. We have a much bigger understanding between God and
00:43:19.360
us. And I think he knows that if we knew and could control all the things that we think we
00:43:23.440
want to know and control, it actually wouldn't help. It would just make things worse. And we
00:43:28.060
can't always see the purpose and the reason behind what he's doing. And I think necromancy
00:43:32.660
and witchcraft is a desire to try to know that, but we just have to trust the Lord and his
00:43:36.940
sovereignty, that it's his eternal plan that's going off without a hitch. And it's not our
00:43:41.580
burden to carry. And witchcraft makes us carry a burden that was never ours and actually ends up
00:43:46.900
crushing us in the end. All right. We've got a couple more things on the docket. Let me go ahead
00:43:53.240
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All right. I wanted to quickly address the backlash to the SBC voting in favor of a
00:45:00.460
constitutional amendment, which would ban female pastors from the denomination. Um, not only the
00:45:08.360
role of the pastor, but also really the function of the pastor, which is exercising biblical
00:45:14.020
authority over men by teaching scripture in the congregation, in the local church.
00:45:19.680
This was already a part of the Baptist faith and message.
00:45:21.940
This is making it a constitutional amendment put forth by Dr. Al Mohler, president of Southern
00:45:27.260
Baptist Seminary, and it has to be voted on again next year in Indianapolis for it to
00:45:34.320
it passed with a 75% vote. But then you had a lot of people, a lot of people who are Christians
00:45:39.560
pushing, pushing back against this. Here is a pastor who, um, says, look, you know, in response
00:45:47.800
to this, yes, women can be pastors. His position is, and he claims it's the Bible who, uh, that
00:45:55.640
gives him the support of that position. It's up for, for the record, I do believe that women can
00:46:01.500
be pastors. And the reason I believe that is because scripture shows me that. I studied the
00:46:08.240
scriptures and I actually see that Apollos, who Paul compares himself to later, was actually taught
00:46:13.440
by a woman. Read Acts 18. In Acts 21, four unmarried women prophesy in church. And Colossians,
00:46:21.620
Nimoha was the pastor of the church and it met in her house. Chloe, same thing in 1 Corinthians 1.
00:46:26.100
Romans 16, 1 and 2. Phoebe is a deacon. 1 Corinthians 11. Women prayed and prophesied
00:46:31.600
in the church. Okay. Not a single one of these examples is of a female pastor.
0.95
00:46:37.140
And I see this a lot. Oh, this woman taught this person, or this woman corrected this person's
00:46:43.400
theology, or this woman shared her testimony, or this woman was told by Jesus to go share what he
00:46:48.700
had done for her. I do believe that women are called to preach the gospel. I do believe that
00:46:53.960
women can correct someone's theology. I think women can talk about theology. I think women can
0.95
00:47:00.120
love the Bible and teach Bible studies. I think women can have podcasts talking about, you know,
00:47:05.360
biblical ideas, but none of the examples that were given were of a woman leading a church as
00:47:14.000
a pastor. Even the passage about women prophesying or the Holy Spirit coming upon men and women to
00:47:22.460
prophesy has nothing to do with women being pastors. Now, in another part of this sermon,
00:47:31.220
he talks about the verses that command women to be silent in churches or to not preach in churches.
00:47:38.800
And he says that those don't really apply to today. Here's the next clip.
00:47:44.380
They take two verses out of context, 1 Timothy 2, 11 and 12, and 1 Corinthians 14. Here's the
00:47:48.960
problem I have with that, just so you know. In 1 Timothy 2, you have to understand, they're
00:47:52.600
worshiping a goddess named Artemis, who is the goddess of fertility. What happened, if you continue
00:47:57.980
and you go to read Acts 19, they actually declare in Ephesus, great is Artemis of Ephesus. What was
00:48:04.480
happening? Why did Paul give that instruction to Timothy? Because they were worshiping a goddess
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who said that women were greater than men, and they were disrupting the church service and trying
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to exercise authority over the one preaching. Now, 1 Corinthians 14 says women should be silent in
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the church. What's he talking about? Same thing. Women were interrupting and trying to take over
00:48:23.540
the service with empty philosophy. How do I know that? Paul just said in 1 Corinthians 11 that
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women prophesied, preached in the church. Last time I checked, scripture doesn't contradict itself.
00:48:36.900
Okay, there's so many things to respond to in that one clip. I do just want to say what he says
00:48:43.080
the end that in first Corinthians 11, we read that women are preaching. I read first Corinthians
00:48:48.880
11 and I don't see that. I mean, what I do see for, um, uh, for example, but every wife who
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prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head since it is the same as if
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her head were shaven for if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short.
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Um, and then it goes on and on and we can have another conversation about head coverings. I
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don't see anything in first Corinthians 11 about a woman preaching in a local church. Now let's
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look at first Corinthians, um, first Corinthians 14. So in first Corinthians 14, it says, as in
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all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. So that's the verse
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he's referring to, but they are not for, they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission
00:49:38.860
as the law also says, if there's anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at
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home for it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. Okay. So when we're looking at a verse,
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we have to say, what follows it? What follows the command? What is the why that is being given?
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Because there are some dictates in scripture that do seem to be culturally exclusive based
00:49:59.320
on the reasoning given. But Paul does not say here in this one particular church,
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this strange thing is happening. It says, as in all the churches of the saints, every single
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church, no matter the culture, no matter the pagan worship around it, not just the church in
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Corinth. He says, as in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the
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churches for they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission. Why? Because they
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are doing something weird with their theology and this pagan God and Artemis. No, as the law also
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says, if there's anything that they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home for
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it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. There's nothing here about disruptions. There's
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nothing here about pagan worship. There's nothing here that says, because they are acting in this
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way, they must not speak. He goes all the way back to the law. He says, this is universally true
00:50:51.360
in Christendom, that women should keep silent in the churches. And then also he references
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first Timothy, first Timothy two through 11, Paul writes, let a woman learn quietly with all
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submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man. Rather she
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is to remain quiet. Now, what this pastor could have done is he could have highlighted that Paul
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is saying, I do not permit a woman to teach. I've heard some egalitarians try to make that argument
00:51:21.560
that that caveat somehow, you know, allows for women preaching within, within the church. But
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again, this passage has nothing to do with interruptions or disruptions or anything
00:51:34.280
culturally going on at the time. How do I know that? Because of the verses that follow for Adam
00:51:39.980
was formed first, then Eve and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became
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a transgressor. So there's a lot there that we could unpack. But the point is that Paul goes
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all the way back to creation. If it was cultural, he wouldn't go back to creation. He's going back
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to something that is true. And that is always true that Adam was formed first, then Eve. So
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if it was something specific to that time in space, then he wouldn't have given the
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creational reasoning. That is what we see actually in every example. Even when Jesus
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goes all the way back to creation, he's saying, this is true. This is always going to be true
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because it's been true from the beginning. So I'm sorry, but people who make this kind
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of argument. You are banking on your congregation, not reading the passage for themselves. That's it.
00:52:30.680
It's not even, I saw someone in these comments say, oh, that was so textual. That was so scholarly.
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It's not at all. It's banking on you not reading scripture for yourself. Okay. So that's what,
00:52:42.360
that's what's going on here. And you can think that that is somehow oppressive or that is, um,
00:52:48.700
anti-woman. The truth is, is that women are just as made in the image of God as men,
00:52:53.800
is that we have been given gifts. We have been given talents. We have been given a voice. We
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have been given the opportunity to be a part of the body of Christ, to minister to the saints.
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There are many women that Jesus recognized in his ministry, that are recognized and honored in the
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epistles. Even in the Old Testament, the genealogy of Jesus includes these incredible
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and faithful women. The Bible is not an anti-woman text, but it is an anti-egalitarian text.
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It is an anti-men and women are the same text and are called to the same function and purpose. We
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are not. Men and women are not interchangeable. And because we're not interchangeable, because
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there is something innately different about us and have been since creation, we're not called
00:53:42.000
to the same things. We might be capable of some of the same things, but we are not called to
00:53:48.100
the same things. I'm a communicator. I like to communicate. I love scripture. I am capable
00:53:53.960
technically if I wanted to of delivering a sermon, but I am not called to do that because I'm a woman
00:54:00.000
because I'm called to different things. I don't see that as, um, as stealing something from me
00:54:07.260
because it was nevermind. God is the one who gives rights and God didn't make a mistake when
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he made me a woman and he has chosen to allow me to channel my communicative skills in other ways.
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and it's not from leading a church. It's how I feel about Ephesians 5, that wives submit to
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your husbands as to the Lord. Husbands, love your wives. Husbands have the much harder calling
00:54:25.800
in that. Husbands have a much higher and harder role. Pastors, men have a much harder, higher,
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and more sacrificial role in being the shepherd over a flock that I think, God, that I'm never
00:54:36.660
going to have to have. So I don't really understand the desire as a Christian for women
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to vie for the same roles and responsibilities that men have, instead of just being grateful
00:54:52.140
for the calling that he has placed on our lives, which is different, no less valuable,
00:54:57.300
but different. So read the Bible for yourselves. That's what I want to say. Read the Bible for
00:55:03.280
yourselves and don't allow a pastor like that to bank on you not reading the following verses.
00:55:09.880
All right. Um, wanted to address that. Let me answer one voicemail and I will tell you about
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code Allie. All right. We really only have time for one voicemail today. And so I am going to
00:56:24.600
play voicemail number two hi Allie my sister is a professing Christian and is about to get engaged
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to and marry a Mormon I've spent many hours explaining to her why this is wrong and she
00:56:36.720
seems to understand but she now just asks me to respect her decision should I attend the wedding
00:56:42.260
my thoughts so far are that I will attend but not be a bridesmaid if she asks and not attend
00:56:48.160
the bridal shower as those to me are celebrating her decision thank you
00:56:54.600
Well, thanks for your question. This is a tough question because I know you want to be there for
00:56:58.760
your sister and marriage is wonderful. And I know that you're happy that she is happy. And I
00:57:04.640
understand the distinction you're making. You feel like as an attendee, you're going there and
00:57:08.900
supporting her, but you feel that as a bridesmaid going to the bridal shower, that you are celebrating
00:57:13.420
the union and you don't want to celebrate the union. This is what I'm going to say. And this
00:57:18.000
might be hard to hear. I would assume that your sister is not a believer. I would assume that
00:57:23.640
your sister is not a believer marrying another non-Christian. And the reason I would say that
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is because someone who is indwelled by the Holy Spirit would have a very, very difficult time
00:57:37.220
via the Holy Spirit convicting her and dating someone who does not believe Jesus is God.
00:57:43.800
Now, having strong affections for someone, being very attracted to someone can override
00:57:48.660
all kinds of convictions. And so I'm not trying to say, um, the eternal destination of your,
00:57:56.440
of your sister. I am saying that it is very difficult for me to believe that she is walking
00:58:03.360
with the Lord and has no conviction over marrying someone who has added to the gospel and his
00:58:10.340
belief system when it comes to how to get to heaven and how to attain salvation. That should
00:58:14.500
be something that breaks her heart. That should be something that the Holy Spirit is just nagging
00:58:19.280
her about saying, do not do this. This is, this is not what I want. This is unequally yoked. And
00:58:25.680
the fact that that apparently is not there right now means to me that there's, there's something
00:58:31.620
wrong there. There's something very wrong spiritually. So that is the first concern.
00:58:35.440
The first concern is not the marriage. The first concern is that there is something deeply wrong
00:58:40.060
on a spiritual level within your sister's heart and soul, I would address that first. That's the
00:58:46.300
first conversation I would be having. And then it is the Holy Spirit's job to continue to convict.
00:58:51.560
You keep speaking the truth in love. You said that she's about to get engaged and then she's
00:58:55.680
going to marry. You got time. You got time. And if the Holy Spirit is convicting you, then I would
00:59:00.760
continue to speak the truth in love. Now, if it comes down to it and she has no conviction about
00:59:05.920
this and she decides to marry this person, then I would assume that the Holy spirit and the
00:59:10.800
conviction is just not there. Then I don't think that it is a sin to attend the wedding of two
00:59:16.600
non-Christians. The wedding itself between two non-Christians is not a sin. Like men, a man
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marrying a woman is not a sin. A man trying to marry a man is a sin. The marriage itself,
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the union itself, the attempt to call that a marriage is a sin. Any marriage between a man
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and a woman is not a sin. It obviously is a problem if you have a true believer marrying
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a non-believer unequally yoked, but I would assume that that's not what's happening here.
00:59:44.200
Something much, much deeper than she's just attracted to this guy is going on in this case,
00:59:49.840
and you can continue to be kind and you can continue to love her and you can continue to
00:59:54.660
support her as an individual, as your sister, as her sister speak the truth and love to her.
00:59:59.900
doesn't mean that you have to be rude or, and, or anything, um, in any sense, but you should
01:00:06.400
continue to be really clear about this because it will probably be true that she will end up
01:00:12.920
going his direction rather than the other way around. And that's going to be very difficult,
01:00:17.420
not just as a sister, but also as a future aunt. Um, and so do whatever you can to continue sharing
01:00:22.820
the gospel with both of them and just praying, praying, praying for the conviction of the Holy
01:00:27.700
spirit. Um, all right, that's all we got time for today. We will be back here on Wednesday.