Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1394 ｜ 'Textbook Demonic'： Charlie Kirk's Murder Reveals Ongoing Spiritual Warfare ｜ Frank Turek

00:00:00.000 Jesus and the apostles called Satan a murderer, liar, accuser, and slanderer who seeks to steal, 1.00

00:00:06.160 kill, and destroy. We had a murder a year ago. What have we had since then? Lies, accusations, 0.98

00:00:10.960 and slander seeking to steal, kill, and destroy. People say they don't believe in the demonic. 0.59

00:00:14.860 How could it be more obvious? What has happened since last year makes me more confident in the

00:00:20.260 Christian worldview than before. The demons don't go after ineffective movements. They go after

00:00:25.420 effective people and effective movements. And Charlie was enormously effective. And TPUSA still

00:00:30.360 is enormously effective. This is textbook, textbook, demonic activity.

00:00:48.640 Frank, thanks so much for joining me again in person. How are you doing?

00:00:52.340 It's great being with you, Allie.

00:00:53.860 I'm doing fine.

00:00:54.640 We're coming up on the one year.

00:00:56.400 Well, it is the one year anniversary now.

00:00:58.340 Yeah.

00:00:58.760 Charlie.

00:00:59.240 And you and I were just talking offline.

00:01:01.740 On one hand, it seems like the longest year of my life and certainly the longest year

00:01:08.240 of Erica's life.

00:01:09.040 But on the other hand, it seems like it was yesterday.

00:01:11.240 Yeah.

00:01:11.680 It's really an odd feeling.

00:01:14.280 What about it makes it feel like it's been so drawn out, like a lifetime ago?

00:01:19.740 Just because the first person I think of every morning when I wake up is Charlie,

00:01:23.240 and the last person I think of when I go to bed is Charlie,

00:01:26.080 and I'm thinking of him 50 times a day at least.

00:01:30.500 And for those who might not remember, what was your relationship like with Charlie?

00:01:35.400 Well, he reached out to our ministry back in January 2020, just before COVID hit,

00:01:40.960 and he had been watching our videos because I had been going to college campuses

00:01:43.700 for about 15 years at that point.

00:01:45.940 And, of course, that's what he was doing,

00:01:48.120 and so he liked some of the videos and he just wanted to get together and see if we could work

00:01:53.800 with one another if i could help him a little bit he wanted me to mentor him and you know it can be

00:01:58.280 hard to mentor someone smarter than you but not with charlie because the only thing that exceeded

00:02:03.640 his intellect was his humility you know the few things that i knew that he didn't he wanted to

00:02:10.440 know and of course i wasn't his only mentor he had so many mentors because he knew as a young man he

00:02:15.480 had to put people around him that were further down the road than he was and that was one of

00:02:20.200 his great strengths that he always would listen he'd always try and find out how he could improve

00:02:26.680 himself and he would go to other people to help him do that but i would say ally that in this

00:02:33.480 five and a half years i knew him honestly i learned more from him than he learned from me

00:02:39.480 because he was just that gifted what's the biggest thing you learned from him

00:02:43.080 I would say the biggest thing I learned from him and this is gonna sound really

00:02:51.060 weird that he was more guided by Scripture than I was hmm and and that's

00:02:57.360 embarrassing like there was a time when he texted me and someone had made a hit

00:03:06.360 piece on him in the Christian world Christian apologetics world huh and he

00:03:12.000 said do you know this guy and I said yeah you want me to reach out to him and see if

00:03:17.040 yeah could you so I did and this guy said I'll only talk to Charlie about this

00:03:24.560 and I said Charlie you know do you want to give this guy your number and he said yes I'll reach

00:03:33.560 out to him blessed are the peacemakers wow and I went I wouldn't have even done that you know

00:03:40.280 so he'd had a conversation with him and he actually said to him this is Charlie to this

00:03:47.980 guy who did a hit piece on him because Charlie had said some things apologetically that weren't 0.96

00:03:53.640 quite precise and you know how apologists can be jerks right okay so um Charlie went with hat in 0.82

00:04:03.100 his hand and said yeah I didn't say that as well as I could have I'm eager to learn from you 0.95

00:04:09.440 Wow.

00:04:10.160 I mean, what humility.

00:04:11.340 Yeah.

00:04:11.920 Right?

00:04:12.340 His defenses were not up.

00:04:14.060 He was just, blessed are the peacemakers.

00:04:15.920 I'm sure I can learn from this guy.

00:04:18.400 I'm happy to talk to him.

00:04:20.160 Do you know what happened after that?

00:04:21.980 Like, did they spark any kind of friendship?

00:04:24.800 This was probably within six months of his murder.

00:04:28.360 So, no, but Charlie would have been open to it because that's the kind of guy Charlie was.

00:04:34.860 the guy that did this wasn't super prominent and you know he charlie kind of relied on me

00:04:45.760 for the apologetic side of things and you as well because i know that that was a two-way

00:04:51.860 relationship that you had with him as well in the sense that you were learning from him and he was

00:04:55.580 learning from you what do you think in all of the walks that you had with him because when you were

00:05:01.240 in the area y'all would go on these walks with the security guard kind of trailing behind

00:05:05.340 if you're able to share what were some of the questions that charlie had that he was

00:05:11.100 trying to work out with you and glean from you i can share this because it's in the book

00:05:17.600 the war on reality um the first chapter uh two nights before he was murdered we were

00:05:24.800 walking through scottsdale with that 300 pound armed bodyguard behind us because we would meet

00:05:30.720 during the day and then he'd say, hey, after Eric and I put the kids down, why don't we go on a walk

00:05:35.040 and we'll just talk about all these issues. And the three issues he brought up that night,

00:05:41.880 he wanted to talk, of course, about politics. That was important to him in government. And

00:05:46.620 he was really concerned about Islam, that Islam is incompatible with the United States

00:05:50.880 Constitution. Of course, he's right about that. Everywhere Islam goes, the First Amendment 1.00

00:05:56.120 rights that we have go away the 50 plus countries in the in the world that are islamic right now 0.99

00:06:03.080 don't have the kind of freedoms we enjoy here so he knew that and i pointed out look islamophobia 0.93

00:06:09.160 is a bogus word because islam is not a race it's an ideology and you ought to be concerned about 0.91

00:06:15.080 an ideology that's going to take away your freedoms yeah so we talked about that at length 0.99

00:06:19.800 and then he wanted to talk about christianity and the evidence for christianity and the two

00:06:27.080 facts i always point out to show that christianity is true you just have to establish two main facts

00:06:31.240 that number one god exists and number two jesus rose from the dead and so we talked a lot about

00:06:35.880 that in fact nine days before he was murdered he put out a tweet that said jesus it's an historical

00:06:42.120 fact jesus really rose from the dead that was one of his i'm paraphrasing the tweet but that's

00:06:46.120 essentially what he said and then the third issue that he wanted to talk about

00:06:53.320 was the family and particularly marriage how could he get his generation

00:06:58.040 to embrace marriage and childbearing and we probably talked about that the longest

00:07:05.400 that night and your name came up actually when we were talking about it because he said

00:07:11.800 Ali's an example of what we want people to follow. Get married, have children,

00:07:20.600 and of course he and Erica were too, right? So how do we actually do that?

00:07:25.800 We didn't really have a solution that night for that problem because 0.83

00:07:31.080 the data showed that men in his generation wanted to get married, but the women didn't. 0.62

00:07:35.560 So how is Charlie or how am I going to convince women to do this? And that's why your name came 0.73

00:07:41.000 well maybe Alec can help of course maybe now Erica can help too that she's more prominent

00:07:46.520 now I didn't think about this at the time until he was murdered then after his murder I said wow

00:07:52.440 Charlie was talking about the three institutions God created the government the family and the church

00:08:02.120 God family country if you will those are the three things that TPUSA is all about

00:08:08.120 god family country and so charlie was a big picture strategic thinker he wasn't talking

00:08:14.440 about the minor issues he was talking about the biggest issues that god is most concerned with

00:08:20.840 and then the next day it's in the book as well he called a meeting with two israeli officials

00:08:28.440 in israel one israeli in the united states via zoom and then me charlie mikey and blake

00:08:36.520 were on zoom talking to these three israelis and the questions were all about what's your

00:08:42.520 perspective on this how can we better answer questions related to the conflict you have with

00:08:46.280 amas so charlie was not giving up on israel he was doing his homework he wanted their best

00:08:55.480 information on this so he could better answer questions the next day at uvu

00:09:00.600 wow so now god family country israel hmm the big four things that god is concerned with

00:09:10.480 that's what charlie was concerned with the last two days of his life

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00:10:23.420 code Alley. You write about that day in your book, The War on Reality, and what it was like

00:10:37.600 in those moments. Had you been to many campus stops with Charlie before? No. In fact, that was

00:10:43.720 the first one that he and I went together on. We were supposed to go to Berkeley. I call it

00:10:50.320 berserkly yeah um two months later yeah we had antifa you were there in 2018 i think yeah we went

00:10:58.320 two months after charlie was murdered and had to deal with the ever intolerant antifa who in the

00:11:02.640 name of inclusion tolerance and diversity tried to shut the whole thing down of course um so we

00:11:07.920 were supposed to go there the reason i was at uvu is because when charlie came back from the far east

00:11:14.960 well the month before we were we were there in early august and he said hey can you come back

00:11:18.880 a month from now just before the tour starts so we can i can get sharpened up um i'll just be

00:11:27.840 coming back from japan and korea and if you can stay a couple days if you can stay a third day

00:11:32.640 you can come with me to the to the first event i was like okay i'll stay for the third day and

00:11:37.200 that's why i was with him that day and i you know when we when we're driving in there he got footage

00:11:46.960 on his phone from above and I saw it and I said Charlie I don't like this place there's too many

00:11:51.360 buildings yeah but he just shrugged it off because he was brave and he knew he had to expose himself

00:11:57.840 to some degree in order to care for people you can't wall yourself off completely and of course

00:12:03.680 there was security there and the cops said they had the roofs yeah no they didn't um and when we

00:12:11.360 got in there it was just it was there was it felt like people were too close to us i mean they were

00:12:17.200 they were they were just right there and there were thousands of them i felt not great about it

00:12:22.720 not because i'm a genius but just because butler pa had happened the year before right from a roof

00:12:30.880 and there's just roofs all around us i'm going sure they got this and there could be somebody

00:12:37.040 just in the audience with a weapon there weren't screen coming in right i always worried about that

00:12:43.840 with charlie because he's so effective and satan of course attacks the most effective and um

00:12:53.920 the only good news we got that day was he was killed instantly right and that he didn't have

00:12:58.640 long drawn out suffering no nothing in fact the surgeon said that if we if he had been shot in

00:13:03.600 in the operating room we couldn't have saved him that's how devastating it was i mean when we got

00:13:09.460 him in the car his eyes were fixed he wasn't yeah wasn't looking at me was he was looking right past

00:13:14.920 me you know you know you were the subject still are of conspiracy theories after it the video

00:13:23.120 footage of you you're kind of taking a video or maybe you're facetiming facetiming my son yeah

00:13:28.320 facetiming your son and i don't know fidgeting or something and then immediately people were

00:13:33.660 talking about the man in the white hat who was making weird motions or whatever what was really

00:13:39.540 going on in those moments well charlie and i were flipping hats into the audience and

00:13:45.680 then when he said okay it's time for questions he takes them like he gets under the tent i'm like

00:13:52.160 25 feet to his right and one of the one of his staff said hey do you want a hat because it's

00:13:58.340 sunny out yeah sure give me a hat so let's put on this white 47 hat you know and uh so i'm standing

00:14:04.520 there because i'd facetimed my wife and i said wow look at this you know look how look at the

00:14:09.280 audience she was back in phoenix visiting her mother-in-law i mean my mother-in-law her mom

00:14:14.840 and my middle son when i was all the kids um and my daughter-in-law are big charlie fans so

00:14:23.920 he's an airline pilot so i knew he wasn't working that day so i i just texted him or i mean i

00:14:29.600 facetimed him i said hey look at this so i'm facetiming them when the shot

00:14:33.560 ironically it was the second question the first question was about mormonism we were in utah we

00:14:40.320 knew we'd get that question we talked about it on the way in the second question was about

00:14:44.620 trans violence ironically and um that's when the shot rang out and i just can still see him

00:14:55.900 just go limp basically and uh i don't remember saying this but my daughter-in-law was watching

00:15:07.740 it said the first thing you said was no no no no yeah so i took a step toward him but his security

00:15:14.060 team was you know they were a lot closer to them than i was anyway so they were on them right away

00:15:17.980 so then i just ran along with them to the car and then i when i got in the car i put the

00:15:25.020 phone in my back pocket and even hanging up i didn't even think about hanging it up i was just

00:15:29.180 so they heard the whole thing going to the hospital wow yeah what an interesting and

00:15:34.300 really disturbing inside vantage point for them to be able to see you and see your reaction and

00:15:39.820 hear what's going on probably frantic themselves not really being able to see anything and then

00:15:46.860 you're in the car and y'all are you said that you kind of already knew that he was gone but at the

00:15:51.340 same time y'all are doing everything that you can to save his life to get to the hospital i can only

00:15:56.620 imagine how chaotic that was yeah i mean we don't have an emergency vehicle there's no sirens there's

00:16:02.540 nothing no lights you know just an suv and the doors open in the back because charlie's too tall

00:16:08.060 we can't close the door so then on the way to the hospital you know i you know we're just yanking

00:16:15.420 back and forth yeah you know weaving through traffic trying to get there and there's an

00:16:22.540 ambulance coming the other way about halfway there and we said we're you know should we stop no no

00:16:27.500 let's keep going just get to the hospital yeah um so in the last minute of the ride that's when i

00:16:34.780 tried CPR on him because I thought to myself look he hasn't any oxygen if there's any way we're

00:16:39.180 going to revive him I'll never live with myself if they do revive him and he's brain damaged you

00:16:44.860 know like yeah gotta at least try to get air in him um and they did get a heartbeat when we got

00:16:53.900 there but they told us later yeah you can get a heartbeat on somebody who's already gone if they

00:16:57.740 have a healthy body and that they did that with Charlie so I remember getting that text that they

00:17:03.500 found a heartbeat and thinking you know i'm far away distant hearing it from a mutual friend who's

00:17:08.860 hearing it probably from andrew colvette who's hearing it probably from y'all and so maybe by

00:17:13.440 the time i got the text he was already gone but i remember getting that text that they found a

00:17:18.240 heartbeat and for those just few minutes before i got the subsequent text he's gone it was like okay

00:17:24.120 like he's gonna survive because up until that point i mean it just felt and you probably didn't

00:17:30.760 feel this way because you were seeing it all happen but it was just an utter denial that he

00:17:35.540 of all people could be taken out he just seemed like this almost like immortal figure this

00:17:41.920 invincible figure that not him other people could be targeted but not him and just getting those

00:17:48.480 texts of like we got him we don't just surreal we're all mortal we're all gonna totally you know

00:17:56.400 a lot of people talk about the end times and i say i'm more certain that my end time is coming

00:18:02.160 before jesus comes to end the whole show that's what we ought to really be concerned with because

00:18:08.400 we're much more certain that we're not going to be here several decades from now me certainly

00:18:13.680 closer than you um that's the issue that's the issue we have to be more concerned about then

00:18:18.720 you know when's jesus coming back it's appointed man wants to die than the judgment yeah it seems

00:18:24.640 like somewhere deep down Charlie knew that he had to sprint his race and really none of us know

00:18:31.680 any of us could be taken out tomorrow so we should be all making the best use of the time because the

00:18:36.460 days are evil but it seemed like there was some instinct in Charlie that knew I have a lot to

00:18:42.620 accomplish in a short period of time because I don't know anyone who was busier and jet setting

00:18:47.300 more than him not only prioritizing his family meeting with world leaders meeting with the leader

00:18:52.960 of the free world doing apologetics on college campuses i mean the man was busy and i just

00:18:59.580 sometimes wonder well even if he didn't know the lord knew the lord knew that he had what 32 years

00:19:05.380 to sprint his race and that he had to accomplish all that he was going to accomplish and so it

00:19:10.600 seemed like charlie instinctively knew what you're talking about and it was a tragedy that he was

00:19:14.540 taken out but you know it's equally a tragedy is living 80 years and doing nothing for the lord

00:19:18.660 worse plenty of people yeah i mean charlie did more in 32 years i mean he was going to be 32

00:19:26.100 in a month from his murder um then any 10 000 people i know doing lifetimes so yeah and you

00:19:35.160 probably joke with them i did all the time i always used to text him vance kirk 2028 and he

00:19:41.640 would just send a smile back he was going to be president someday yeah you know he could have been

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00:21:22.620 Erica wrote the forward to your book, The War on Reality.

00:21:25.780 Can you talk a little bit about what she wrote?

00:21:28.440 Can I just read two sentences from it?

00:21:30.340 Please.

00:21:31.300 By the way, for those of you out there, this book came out on the 8th, so a few days ago,

00:21:35.220 but you don't need to buy the book to read the forward because we posted it.

00:21:41.700 at Amazon. If you go to Amazon or even Christian Book, if you go to Christian Book, you'll see it

00:21:49.280 there too. Just look under editorial comments. This is so much of this, it's only two and a half

00:21:56.060 pages, but there is one couple of pages. Here it is, a couple of sentences. She says,

00:22:04.300 since September 10th, 2025, I've been faced with my own new reality, one that I still wrestle with

00:22:11.160 as I attempt to grasp its earthly permanence, quite honestly, it'll probably be like that

00:22:17.260 for the rest of my life. Yet, what I've realized is that redefining my reality isn't what gives

00:22:24.540 me peace. Surrendering to it does. And I went, that's the whole book. Surrendering to reality.

00:22:34.520 You can't change the foundation of reality. So many people want to change it, but reality is

00:22:41.000 undefeated you can deny it you can fight against it but ultimately you're going to smack up against

00:22:47.280 reality and it's going to hurt if you keep rebelling against it and so erica is realizing

00:22:54.380 that and then check this out this is how she ends it although my husband is now absent from this

00:23:01.320 world but present with the lord he loved he lived his life in such an inspiring way

00:23:05.680 knowing that his faith rested on the confidence that reality belonged to no one else but god

00:23:13.400 and i pray you find that freedom and i pray you find freedom in that as well count it all joy

00:23:21.580 erica kirk count it all joy she's quoting james chapter one when james says count it all joy when

00:23:29.400 you fall into various trials because the testing of your faith produces patience

00:23:33.320 she is being refined more so than any woman i know maybe any person i know in the past year

00:23:42.120 and i actually said this to her the other day i said erica if the roles were reversed

00:23:46.340 if you were murdered and charlie remained i don't think charlie would do as well

00:23:52.520 as you've done for the past year wow because she's so steady she's so focused on the lord

00:24:01.140 and she's focused on keeping charlie's legacy going and she has not lashed out when she

00:24:07.840 had every earthly right to do so when people are slandering her she hasn't she hasn't she's just

00:24:14.520 kept the focus on the lord and what she needed to do to keep charlie's legacy going and of course

00:24:18.940 her kids she's amazing she's brilliant too people don't realize that erica had two businesses

00:24:27.360 before she ever met charlie she had to read through the bible bible 365 and she had her

00:24:33.400 own clothing line she was accomplished before she met charlie yeah well charlie doesn't seem

00:24:39.620 like someone who would have married a woman that couldn't hold her own intellectually strength wise

00:24:46.620 and everything and of course being a present mom is what she prioritized and it's just been you

00:24:53.040 know obviously we know that especially those who are openly godless a lot of those on the

00:24:59.960 progressive side who celebrated charlie's death and of course the man who is accused of killing

00:25:07.120 him is also part of that crowd doesn't surprise you when they celebrate when he dies because it's

00:25:13.100 like yeah of course they're depraved in mind their foolish hearts were darkened as the bible says and 0.97

00:25:19.120 so they've exchanged the truth of God for a lie. Of course, they were going to take what he said 0.99

00:25:24.280 as hateful. Stephen was described as full of grace and power. He just shared the gospel.

00:25:30.260 They were so angry about that. They didn't say, oh, I'm going to go think about that. They picked

00:25:34.120 up stones and they killed him. And so some of this is nothing new. I think what has shocked

00:25:39.120 the conscience for me is people, even people who profess to be Christians, the just relentless

00:25:44.720 attacks against erica and whether or not you agree with her politics or whether or not you like her

00:25:50.740 whether or not you have personal feelings about her just the callousness towards her i mean i

00:25:56.200 don't call everything demonic but that really feels very dark and depraved the way that people

00:26:02.740 have targeted her in the wake of charlie's death it's just that that has kind of i won't lie it's

00:26:10.420 demoralized me in some ways. Seeing people either side of the aisle, different religious identities

00:26:17.180 really use her as kind of like the target of their ire. What do you make of that?

00:26:22.060 I make of it this way, that Jesus and the apostles called Satan a murderer, liar, accuser, 0.99

00:26:28.840 and slanderer who seeks to steal, kill, and destroy. We had a murder a year ago. What have 0.92

00:26:33.820 we had since then? Lies, accusations, and slanderer seeking to steal, kill, and destroy. 0.99

00:26:39.140 it's textbook demonic and people say they don't believe in the demonic i go how could it be more 0.63

00:26:43.700 obvious in fact what has happened since last year makes me more confident in the christian

00:26:50.500 worldview than before because this is exactly what is predicted it's exactly what they don't

00:26:57.300 the demons don't go after ineffective movements they go after effective people and effective

00:27:02.980 movements. And Charlie was enormously effective. And TPUSA still is enormously effective. And so,

00:27:08.640 of course, they're going to go after a widow, despite Exodus 22, 22 to 24, which says,

00:27:14.600 if you abuse a widow or the orphan, the fatherless, and they cry out to me, God says, 0.99

00:27:21.280 I will hunt you down with the sword and kill you. Now, this is Old Testament. This is a different 1.00

00:27:24.720 penalty in the Old Covenant than today, but the same... But his heart is the same.

00:27:29.020 The same heart is the same.

00:27:30.560 And then in Deuteronomy 19, it says if you accuse someone of a crime falsely and you're found out, you get the penalty of the crime.

00:27:37.120 So if you accuse someone of murder, you're the one executed.

00:27:40.820 Right.

00:27:41.380 That would shut down the Internet alley.

00:27:43.040 Yeah.

00:27:43.300 I mean, if you think about it, if we had that penalty today, I'm simply saying, though, that this is textbook, textbook demonic activity. 1.00

00:27:52.360 And it makes me think, yeah, the Christian worldview really is true.

00:27:56.080 Why would you go after a widow like this? 0.99

00:27:57.700 she obviously had nothing obviously had nothing to do with it her world is shattered this was

00:28:04.260 the love of her life her two children i mean he was not only a wonderful man but a wonderful

00:28:10.580 provider for i mean why there's no motivation for anybody certainly not erica nobody in tp usa to

00:28:20.100 want to see charlie gone no there's none and yet people come up with all sorts of oddball reasons

00:28:27.540 to suggest oh yeah they're involved they're not well there's a lot of motivation that you could

00:28:32.500 find for that there's jealousy rivalry dissension selfish ambition from people love accusing oh yes

00:28:40.340 that's what i'm saying yeah i'm saying there's no motivation for anybody in tp usa or charlie's

00:28:45.060 friends and i'm saying but on the other oh totally yeah you can see there's no motivation for that

00:28:50.260 they're just trying to find things but there's a lot of motivation to make wrong accusations

00:28:55.940 love of money is the root of all kinds of evil like there's there's a lot there that is obviously

00:29:02.520 about selfish ambition for a lot of people and yes it's demonic it's also just sin and you see

00:29:08.340 the depths of people sin and you're right actually seeing abject evil and seeing that callousness

00:29:15.080 okay if there's objective evil then i'm saying that it's opposite has to exist too of course

00:29:20.260 Because evil can't exist without its opposite.

00:29:23.300 And so that you're right.

00:29:24.800 Even the evil in the darkness says, okay, but okay, then what is true?

00:29:28.240 What is good?

00:29:28.960 What is light?

00:29:30.380 And yeah, that's how God works.

00:29:32.280 He brings beauty out of ashes and is a God of redemption.

00:29:35.020 Sometimes even for those of us who know the true hope, you look at that and you're like, gosh, like this is day.

00:29:41.920 It feels like days of Noah kind of stuff that we're looking at on the internet, which I'm sure can be discouraging even for you.

00:29:50.260 It's discouraging, but it's also encouraging at the same time because, again, it affirms.

00:29:55.480 In fact, my friend David Limbaugh years ago said this to me, and it struck me when he said it. 1.00

00:30:02.440 He said, when I see all the evil in the world, I'm more convinced Christianity is true

00:30:06.860 because the evil in the world demonstrates we need a Savior. 0.98

00:30:11.780 And the Bible does not say that everything is going to go well.

00:30:15.500 It says quite the opposite.

00:30:16.720 You're going to be persecuted.

00:30:17.900 You're going to be insulted.

00:30:19.260 You're going to be accused of things you didn't do.

00:30:22.040 You're going to be, Paul says, anyone who lives a faithful life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

00:30:27.520 And Jesus says, in this world you will have trouble, but take heart, I've overcome the world.

00:30:32.900 If they persecuted me, they're going to persecute you.

00:30:34.780 This is advertised.

00:30:37.280 And of course, if we had never sinned, there'd be no reason for Jesus to come. 0.99

00:30:41.560 Christianity is the answer to the problem of evil. 0.96

00:30:44.140 He had to come to take it off of us, because otherwise we have to pay for it. 0.99

00:30:47.900 Yeah.

00:30:48.440 I'm so encouraged by the verse in Luke 6.

00:30:50.860 I think it's 626 when Jesus says,

00:30:54.180 woe to you when all people speak well of you.

00:30:57.020 That's right.

00:30:57.880 He's like, that's bad news.

00:30:59.620 If everyone has something nice to say about you,

00:31:02.740 you're in trouble.

00:31:03.540 That is actually the indication

00:31:05.120 that you're not doing well.

00:31:06.140 And actually, I think even a lot of Christians,

00:31:08.320 myself included, have gotten,

00:31:10.320 you know, sometimes you just find yourself

00:31:11.900 wanting to be liked

00:31:12.980 and wanting everyone to think

00:31:15.780 that you're a good person,

00:31:16.820 everyone to think you're,

00:31:17.640 or to see your side of things and to be able to say no no i'm not being hateful i'm just saying

00:31:23.320 the truth about xyz but to a lot of people the truth is hate and there's nothing you can do about

00:31:28.120 that no matter how nice you are no matter how kind and hospitable and generous you are which we

00:31:32.280 should be those things that is not necessarily going to mitigate a hostile reaction to you it

00:31:38.120 didn't for jesus it didn't for steven it didn't for the apostles didn't for charlie and they were

00:31:42.440 definitely kinder than i was didn't for charlie and he was very kind and gentle people don't give

00:31:46.760 him enough credit for that he invited people to the front of the line i mean tyler robinson called

00:31:53.140 him a fascist because we all know ali a typical fascist tactic is to invite your opponent to the

00:31:59.520 front of the line hand him the microphone and say please make your case then we'll have a discussion 0.83

00:32:03.560 i want to hear what you have to say right the guy that killed him was the fascist that's the

00:32:07.880 backwardness of all of this is that the very people who claim they're all about love and

00:32:12.760 intolerance are the very people that will not tolerate somebody being loving i mean it's it's

00:32:20.360 demonic it's on its head it's they're calling evil good and good evil totally and so it's just

00:32:26.740 more demonstration that the christian worldview is true that i mean we can show this i think the

00:32:32.440 scriptures are true independent of this i'm just saying it's if christianity is true you'd expect

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00:33:44.220 You write about this in your book. It's not just called the war on Christianity or the war on the

00:33:48.620 Bible. It's called the war on reality. And now some people would say, well, you don't have a

00:33:54.540 monopoly on reality as a Christian. That's just your interpretation of reality. But you're saying,

00:34:01.040 no, no, no. When you attack Christianity in the Bible, this is a war on reality in general. Can

00:34:06.740 you explain that? Yes. If Christianity is true, then anybody opposing Christianity is fighting

00:34:11.380 reality. So what is reality? First of all, truth is what corresponds to reality, and reality is 0.70

00:34:17.340 the sum of all truths. And there's only one being that understands all of reality, and that, of

00:34:24.180 But we can understand reality as well.

00:34:27.440 We have a section in the book, and my co-author, Phoenix Hayes, is brilliant.

00:34:30.700 She's a very good writer, and she's got a lot of brilliant quips in there.

00:34:33.880 Because when you're on the road to dystopia alley, you've got to have some fun.

00:34:37.120 So the book has some fun in it.

00:34:39.180 There's a section in there called, Reality Does Not Have Pronouns.

00:34:42.320 What do we mean by that?

00:34:43.920 Meaning, there's not my truth or your truth.

00:34:46.020 There's just the truth, right?

00:34:47.820 For example, I don't have my law of gravity, and you have your law of gravity.

00:34:51.160 There's just gravity.

00:34:52.320 There's not my laws of logic and your laws of logic.

00:34:55.500 There's just the laws of logic.

00:34:57.920 There's not a law for me that says thou shall not murder, but you have a different law.

00:35:02.240 No, that same law is the law against murder, and it applies equally to both of us.

00:35:07.820 And so when people come around saying, I have my truth, you have your truth, I like to say

00:35:11.600 to them, do you have your own math?

00:35:13.720 No, you don't have your own math.

00:35:16.060 You don't have your own truth either.

00:35:17.120 In fact, the statement, there isn't the truth, only my truth, actually claims to be a the truth.

00:35:23.880 So it defeats itself.

00:35:25.080 It's self-contradictory.

00:35:26.640 It's like saying I can't speak a word in English.

00:35:29.080 It's like when people say there is no truth, which is what the postmoderns say.

00:35:32.800 We ask them, is that true?

00:35:34.460 Is it true that there's no truth?

00:35:36.480 And so we point out that the foundation of the war on reality is self-contradictory.

00:35:42.400 Because they try and make everything relative just to whatever their subjective feelings are.

00:35:47.120 but as soon as they say that, they're not really dealing in reality out there. They're just dealing

00:35:51.320 with their feelings. We can misperceive reality. That's true. If I think the world's flat and you

00:35:56.940 think it's round, I just misperceive reality, but you have the right perspective on it and vice

00:36:01.740 versa. So the whole book is predicated on the fact that there is a reality out there that we can know

00:36:07.880 and it's not really hard to know it, but a lot of times we suppress the truth about reality

00:36:13.340 because we want something more and typically many times that has to do with sex as paul

00:36:18.860 points out in romans chapter one we hold the truth down we suppress the truth we go our own way

00:36:24.020 we're given over to futile thinking and then ultimately to a depraved mind where not only are

00:36:30.240 we doing evil we're cheering on other people who do it and i know you covered this but a few weeks

00:36:36.540 ago that law up in massachusetts which allowed a woman to kill her baby up to the moment of birth

00:36:43.260 and they're cheering this that's the end of romans one they're not only doing evil they're cheering 0.62

00:36:48.200 on other people who are doing it and every ob-gyn knows this there's never a reason if a woman has 0.96

00:36:56.860 a problem with her pregnancy in the third trimester that you need to kill the baby

00:37:00.560 yeah you never need to kill the baby you can just do a c-section take care of the mom 0.71

00:37:04.220 but no if i choose to kill my baby then it's a right that's madness i mean we already we actually

00:37:11.760 saw the logical conclusion of that with the lindsey clancy trial in the same state the same 0.97

00:37:16.460 the same state you have this mentality that a person's value is dependent upon their location

00:37:23.100 of their size which is basically the justification of abortion well that's arbitrary that's an

00:37:28.120 arbitrary standard because then you're saying that a baby is less valuable than a toddler

00:37:32.840 a toddler is less valuable than a teenager but actually yes now we see that a person's value

00:37:37.920 and the justice that belongs to them 0.97

00:37:39.680 is dependent upon still the woman's choice

00:37:42.580 and still her hormones and her emotions

00:37:44.720 and everything that was apparently affecting her.

00:37:47.160 There's just no sense of,

00:37:49.300 it seems like because of this war on reality,

00:37:52.360 objective truth and therefore objective justice.

00:37:54.880 You can't have justice without objective truth

00:37:57.560 because then everything is like,

00:38:00.520 I call it empathy-based justice.

00:38:02.440 Well, who do I feel worse for?

00:38:04.660 Who can the prosecution or the defense

00:38:07.460 make me feel worse for in this situation if it's for this mom okay well then i'm gonna as a jury

00:38:14.640 member i'm gonna say that she's not guilty if it's for the babies then i'll go that direction

00:38:18.600 but that is not justice at all so that's like also a huge implication here that if we can't

00:38:24.920 agree on objective truth what does our justice system look like there is no justice and if there's

00:38:29.360 no god there's no justice either it's just your opinion against somebody else's opinion i don't

00:38:34.320 know if you saw josh howerton talk about this recently where he was talking about the fact that

00:38:38.660 if you had nine women on a jury statistically probably a third of them have had abortions in

00:38:43.320 the past and they may have felt this idea that how can i judge this woman for killing her children

00:38:51.660 when i killed my own i want to acquit her because of extenuating circumstances after all i had

00:38:57.600 extenuating circumstances in my pregnancy and i felt it was justified to kill my children so

00:39:03.060 So, I mean, that could be part of this, the psychology of this.

00:39:08.000 In fact, Jay Budziszewski, a brilliant philosopher down at UT Austin, Christian,

00:39:14.720 wrote a book years ago called What We Can't Not Know, and also The Revenge of Conscience.

00:39:19.180 And in The Revenge of Conscience, he said that if you continue to suppress your conscience,

00:39:23.540 what you wind up doing is you wind up creating a situation where your conscience will scream at you.

00:39:30.360 and in order to shut it up you have to you have you basically have to commit the sin again

00:39:35.400 like for example he would say the psychology of this for women that have had an abortion sometimes

00:39:40.760 when they get pregnant again they say to themselves you killed your last child you

00:39:44.920 don't have a right to this one and they abort again and they abort again they're holding this 0.91

00:39:50.600 down and they if they don't repent they wind up continually going down that road and he calls it

00:39:57.320 the revenge of conscience it's psychologically very dark and some of that might be at play here

00:40:06.200 in fact the catholic theologian years ago Fulton Sheen was talking about this

00:40:11.240 like 25 30 maybe 50 years ago he was saying there's going to be a whole group of women that

00:40:16.360 are going to have this pent-up guilt in them that is going to come out in very odd ways

00:40:22.680 and maybe that lindsay clancy thing was part of it you know you actually had 11 people wanting to

00:40:30.920 quit quit completely not manslaughter just a quit because i understand it yeah i think it

00:40:36.980 as far as we i think that's the assumption that we are making based on pretty good information

00:40:42.500 especially the reaction of the defense but of course when you don't believe in objective truth

00:40:48.220 and you don't have objective justice,

00:40:49.680 there is no objective value of human beings either.

00:40:52.620 And I talk about this book a lot by a guy named Owen Backey

00:40:56.240 when children became people.

00:40:57.760 And he just talks about how in the pagan Roman Empire,

00:41:00.600 people were valued by their logos

00:41:02.740 or their ability to rationalize or to reason

00:41:06.060 and only the adult free male was seen as having that full ability.

00:41:10.080 Children were seen as not having it at all yet.

00:41:12.320 And so the objectification of children,

00:41:14.640 their slavery, infanticide, abortion

00:41:16.220 was all justified by this idea that they weren't really people yet well we haven't graduated

00:41:22.340 actually we are basically back to the pagan justifications for murder it might not be based

00:41:28.820 on logos but it's based on pathos it's based on how we feel on the inside but you know the real

00:41:36.460 logos capital l logos john 1 jesus came down and said no no your value is not determined by whether

00:41:44.400 you can think or how deeply you feel it's determined by me and so that's that's just i to

00:41:50.560 me it's a symptom of being in a post-christian society that you forget about all objective not

00:41:57.640 just science not just morality but even the value of human life yeah you buy into the fact that you

00:42:03.500 are the authority rather than god that whatever you feel is what is right in fact in the war on

00:42:10.080 reality we have a section in there going through the different standards people have for what right

00:42:14.820 and wrong is and one of the standards that people have is well i am i'm the standard you know you do

00:42:20.180 you i'll do me and phoenix i can brag on her because she wrote this part she's really witty

00:42:25.660 i'll try and do it from memory but in this part when we're evaluating this relativism

00:42:30.240 she says something like this sure you do you works great when you're picking out ice cream flavors

00:42:36.860 But when you decide to scam grandma, torch a city, or double park at Costco, suddenly

00:42:43.360 the rest of us were wishing you didn't do you quite so hard.

00:42:48.320 It's so true. 0.99

00:42:50.180 And even an atheist would agree with that.

00:42:52.160 That's right.

00:42:52.900 Yeah.

00:42:53.060 Even the people who say there is no objective morality will suddenly get real annoyed with

00:42:58.080 you when you cut in line, right?

00:42:59.540 Like, well, wait a minute.

00:43:00.680 There's no right or wrong.

00:43:02.020 I get to do what I want.

00:43:03.400 Five more power than you.

00:43:04.780 I just overpower you.

00:43:05.600 They don't really believe that, but that's the outcome of their non-God worldview.

00:43:12.960 Oh, go ahead.

00:43:13.740 No, I was just going to say, because if there is no God, nothing's objectively right or wrong.

00:43:16.940 It's just someone's opinion against somebody else's opinion.

00:43:19.880 It's just, say, our opinion against Tyler Robinson's opinion or our opinion against Hitler's opinion.

00:43:25.440 If there's no standard beyond us that we're obligated to obey, and that standard can only exist if God exists.

00:43:30.300 Mm-hmm. I think it was C.S. Lewis who wrote about in Mere Christianity something along the lines of

00:43:36.120 everyone's a moral relativist until someone steals your bike.

00:43:39.740 That's right.

00:43:40.600 Then objective truth and morality really matter.

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00:44:49.740 shopify.com slash alley free trial at shopify.com slash alley you said something really interesting

00:45:02.000 earlier and i want you to unpack this a little bit is that very often when people wage this war

00:45:08.200 in reality they exchange the truth of god for a lie it has to do with sex now that is oddly specific

00:45:15.000 why is that well it's one of the most powerful activities of course human beings can engage in

00:45:22.520 and so people will will lie cheat and steal to get it in fact first john 2 talks about

00:45:32.460 the three great temptations we all have in the world the lust of the eyes the lust of the flesh

00:45:37.700 and the boastful pride of life now when you unpack those what what are they sex money and power

00:45:42.240 those are the three reasons people will commit crimes they're the same three reasons any of us

00:45:48.180 will commit sin why because sex money and power are good things the problem is they're so good

00:45:53.280 we'll often take shortcuts to get them that's what sin is and when it comes to sex that is one

00:46:00.020 of the big three that people will put on top of their pedestal in terms of priority and they think

00:46:07.340 That is what their life is all about.

00:46:09.680 So if you come along and you say, well, the biblical view of sexuality is the correct

00:46:14.160 view and it doesn't line up with what they want, suddenly you're some sort of evil person 0.77

00:46:19.660 that needs to be shut down.

00:46:21.400 And so they will try and suppress that.

00:46:23.680 They'll try and suppress you.

00:46:25.480 They'll try and suppress someone like Charlie.

00:46:27.600 According to the evidence, Tyler Robinson said, this kind of hate can't be negotiated

00:46:32.240 out.

00:46:33.320 It's hate that Charlie has a biblical view of sexuality.

00:46:38.500 By what standard is it hate?

00:46:40.180 And does hate necessarily mean disapproval?

00:46:43.640 Because if it does, everyone's a hater because we all disagree on different things.

00:46:47.940 I don't know if you saw the final part of the pretrial hearing on September 1st when

00:46:53.040 that Robert Novak defense attorney got up and began to badmouth Charlie Kirk as being

00:46:58.540 a hater.

00:46:59.080 I immediately texted Erica and I said, I can't believe he just said that.

00:47:02.420 especially with you in the room. Because if Charlie disagreed with a certain sexual activity,

00:47:11.320 if that makes him a hater, if disagreement makes someone a hater, then Novak's a hater too.

00:47:17.600 Because he disagrees with the prosecution. He disagrees with Charlie. He disagrees with the

00:47:22.380 judge. Hate doesn't necessarily mean, or let me put it another way, disagreement doesn't

00:47:28.340 necessarily mean hate and as you point out in toxic empathy agreement doesn't necessarily mean

00:47:34.500 love either right if you you don't have to approve of everything someone does you're not

00:47:40.220 loving people if you approve of evil they want to do so it's like we c.s lewis said this

00:47:47.240 somewhere in what context did he say this i'm trying to remember but he said something like

00:47:52.600 that that certain values get swollen in madness and isolation like for example in your book

00:48:04.700 empathy if you put empathy at the top of your value list and you swell that to madness

00:48:10.040 you're winding up siding with murderers rather than victims wow i've never heard that quote

00:48:16.860 that is a really fascinating way to put it yes it's swollen to madness and isolation you're

00:48:22.380 isolating one virtue in many cases. But if you make that the one virtue at all costs that you

00:48:32.940 have to live up to, it's swollen to madness and it winds up hurting rather than helping people.

00:48:39.300 When it's untethered or unsubmitted to anything that's true. It's true about so many things

00:48:45.920 when you think about autonomy and authenticity, empathy, these things that can be good. We

00:48:52.120 We believe in authenticity in the sense that you shouldn't lie and pretend to be someone you're not.

00:48:57.840 Autonomy, yes, I don't want the government telling me what kind of, you know, COVID vaccine I have to put in my body.

00:49:04.040 What kind of burka you need to wear. 0.87

00:49:05.160 Yeah, exactly. 0.93

00:49:06.600 And so we believe in these things, but when they are not submitted to biblical truth and God's authority, they become excuses to sin.

00:49:13.520 When authority or autonomy, rather, is my highest value, then it becomes a justification for abortion, bodily autonomy.

00:49:20.640 That's right. 0.59

00:49:20.960 When authenticity is my highest value, then it becomes a justification for gender confusion.

00:49:26.240 Well, I can be who I want to be, and I feel that I'm the opposite sex, so I am.

00:49:31.080 Same is true of empathy.

00:49:32.420 All of these things, all the virtues can be good, but only when they're tethered to biblical truth.

00:49:37.160 Otherwise, they just become justifications for sin.

00:49:39.880 Now, notice, though, when someone says, I get to live my authentic self, if you were to ask them the same question,

00:49:45.460 if you, Ali Bestucki, were to say, do I get to live my authentic self?

00:49:48.500 they're initially going to say yes but then when you say well my authentic self is to tell you the

00:49:54.140 truth and never lie to you so i can't use your pronouns now they're going to get all mad yeah

00:49:58.260 why did they get to live their authentic self but you don't get to live yours

00:50:02.040 because suddenly now their position is a totalitarian position that everyone needs to

00:50:10.460 obey yeah so it's only their authentic self they get to live you don't get to live yours as a bible

00:50:16.460 believing christian sounds like what you're getting at is that actually moral relativism

00:50:22.020 doesn't exist that everyone even the kind that say my truth your truth has an objective moral

00:50:28.400 worldview that they expect others to at the very least respect if not totally adhere to yes and

00:50:33.600 you put it a minute ago when you're talking about the bike it's been put this way that

00:50:37.200 people don't necessarily understand right and wrong when they steal from somebody else but

00:50:43.040 the moment someone steals from them, they go, hey, this is wrong. In other words, you know,

00:50:47.940 right from wrong, best by your reactions rather than your actions. That's good. Yeah. When you

00:50:53.280 are treated poorly, you react to that and you go, hey, that's wrong. But when you treat somebody

00:50:58.220 else poorly, you can justify it. Yeah. But that's just part of depravity. I mean, even gangs

00:51:03.180 understand. Oh, sure. You're on my turf. Yeah. You're in my territory. That's right. You stole

00:51:06.920 my girl. You stole my car. That's right. People understand that even if you don't see them as 0.92

00:51:11.060 moral exemplars their reaction tells us that they actually really do understand good and evil well

00:51:16.360 even even a gang believes in morality we have to trust one another we're loyal to one another

00:51:21.480 yeah in fact i remember seeing a world war ii documentary about rommel the german general

00:51:27.220 and hitler said he had problems with rommel because he didn't trust him wait a minute

00:51:34.180 hitler didn't trust somebody he expected rommel to be a trustworthy person so he's talking about

00:51:41.040 a virtue inside of the nazi war machine right here are these people just murdering innocent

00:51:47.360 people left and right but they expect morality between nazis so it's everybody expects it in

00:51:55.600 their personal dealings with other people they don't have to give it to the other person but

00:51:59.600 they expect the other person to give loyalty to them trust to them

00:52:03.360 last sponsor is good ranchers i don't know if you've heard this news maybe you've heard me

00:52:12.920 talk about it it's a pretty big deal in order to lower the price of beef in the grocery stores

00:52:17.920 america is importing 300 000 metric tons of foreign ground beef that might sound great

00:52:24.860 for prices and you probably will see some lower prices in the grocery store the problem is

00:52:29.100 you'll have no way to indicate or to be able to know the difference between american meat

00:52:34.100 and non-american meat you don't know where this ground beef is coming from you don't know the

00:52:38.040 processing you don't know the standards that these countries have for raising their cows and feeding

00:52:42.520 their cows and all of that stuff so much of the marketing is confusing even if it says made in

00:52:47.300 the usa it might just mean packaged in the usa that's all legally they have to do in order to

00:52:52.680 put that sticker on there so if you want to guarantee that your meat that your chicken that

00:52:56.740 your beef that your steak that your bacon is all from an american farmer ranch then you need to

00:53:01.900 order from good ranchers plus it's just easier it's superior in every way because you get that

00:53:06.420 box of meat on dry ice shipped to your front door every month they make it so easy it's really great

00:53:12.760 tasting we rely on it in our home have for years now makes my life easier and it's always so good

00:53:19.080 the quality is really consistent and i love supporting american farms and ranches as well

00:53:23.640 as a Christian family-owned company. So go to GoToRanchers.com slash Allie, and you'll get a

00:53:29.640 free four-pound ground beef bundle. That is a great deal. We eat that multiple nights a week

00:53:35.260 in our home. GoToRanchers.com slash Allie. In your book, you also talk about Christian

00:53:46.420 occultism. Yes. Which is interesting. What do you mean by that? Well, I'll show you what we mean.

00:53:51.520 and phoenix did the bulk of the work on this chapter but let me just read a couple of things

00:53:57.360 from the back of this because it's so interesting um it's more the occultism that has sort of fallen

00:54:05.840 into christianity we call it can we declare reality manifestation affirmation and christian magic let

00:54:13.200 me just read a couple of these real quickly it'll kind of sum up what the chapter is about

00:54:17.200 if our words create reality why didn't jesus tell paul to declare his thorn in the flesh gone

00:54:25.600 instead of accepting it why did jesus teach us to pray your will be done instead of my words

00:54:33.800 be activated if sickness equals a lack of faith why did jesus heal some people and not others

00:54:40.120 and praise the faith of sufferers did paul lack faith when he told timothy to take some medicine

00:54:45.780 a little wine for a stomach if negative words empower satan why does scripture command honest

00:54:51.480 confession and lament if faith guarantees health and wealth then why did nearly all the apostles

00:54:57.800 die broke as martyrs are you implying they didn't have enough faith in other words the word of faith

00:55:03.220 movement the occultism associated with it breaks down under scrutiny jesus said you will have

00:55:10.040 trouble in this world and he didn't say if you have enough faith you won't right he said that

00:55:14.860 you are going to suffer and jesus according to hebrews learned obedience through suffering ali

00:55:21.240 if the perfect son of god who didn't have a sin nature learned obedience through suffering do you

00:55:26.160 think the rest of us with sin natures can learn obedience through suffering peter kraft had this

00:55:31.420 great line i don't know if i can remember it verbatim but in his book making sense of suffering

00:55:37.160 written like 40 years ago he said this i'm paraphrasing the purpose of this life is not

00:55:42.640 happiness or fulfillment the purpose of this life is training he said this world is a lousy resort

00:55:51.880 but it's a fine gymnasium what's he talking about he's talking about the fact that we're here

00:55:59.340 to be conformed to the image of jesus and that often takes suffering and pain i mean if we got

00:56:07.200 everything we wanted every time we'd be more morally monstrous than we already are we need

00:56:13.120 pain and difficulty in our life and maybe that's one reason why god doesn't completely put it in

00:56:19.320 put it put it in our control because i don't know about you but unlike erica when i go through

00:56:25.280 difficulty i don't count it all joy i'm trying to get out of it aren't you i'm like turn this off

00:56:30.060 right yeah but she's saying count it all joy because it's going to bring forth the character

00:56:37.560 that i need that the lord wants me to have what do you hope that people get out of this book

00:56:42.820 that they are not crazy because the past 10 years a lot of times people think

00:56:47.960 am i crazier is the world can men really have babies can men get pregnant

00:56:51.600 is logic a tool of oppression should we use more racism to get rid of old racism

00:56:56.580 is there really a group of oppressors and oppressed out there and if i have certain

00:57:00.180 qualities i'm automatically an oppressor and if i don't or if these people don't have these

00:57:04.960 qualities they're automatically oppressed i mean we even have a section in here on what do you do

00:57:10.000 when your kid comes to you and says mom dad i'm trans just questions to ask and people say they're

00:57:16.380 helpful questions so we're just trying to show people that reality does exist they are not the

00:57:21.980 authors of reality and if surrendering to reality is what brings peace not trying to fight against

00:57:30.740 it and there's so many aspects of reality it's not just the identity thing it's not just the

00:57:35.120 transgender thing we even talk about ai in here we talk about christian occultism why christians

00:57:40.660 ought to be involved in politics is an entire chapter um because we're told we shouldn't be

00:57:46.700 involved in politics and when people say that when they say i just preach the gospel i don't get

00:57:50.360 involved in politics i normally say this i guess you don't think the gospel is very important then

00:57:53.920 and they go what do you mean this politics affects your ability to preach and live the gospel if you

00:57:58.660 don't think so you can go to some of the countries i've been to i've been to iran there's no first

00:58:02.660 baptist church in tehran i checked ali it's not there i've been to saudi arabia there's no calvary

00:58:07.480 chapel of mecca they don't allow it just got back from egypt several months ago if you try and start

00:58:12.960 grace church in egypt not gonna let you you're gonna have political problems also we have 10

00:58:20.100 reasons why christians have to be involved in politics i'm just giving you two the first is

00:58:25.060 it affects the gospel secondly we're called to love people and if we have the capacity to love

00:58:30.500 people by putting laws in place that protect them from evil and we don't take it we're not loving

00:58:34.980 them and maybe the acid question is this i ask people who say we ought not be involved in politics

00:58:40.740 are you telling me that 165 years ago christians should not have gotten involved politically to

00:58:45.700 outlaw slavery is that what you're saying and they all go no we should have done that welcome

00:58:51.160 to politics you have to do it amen politics matter because policy matters because people matter

00:58:56.660 someone said that in fact there's this wonderful woman in here that we quoted her name is ali beth

00:59:02.740 stuckey have you heard of her i have it it's it's pretty cool she is amazing and we quote her at

00:59:09.240 least twice in this well thank you so thank you so much and it was an honor to read it and get

00:59:13.460 to endorse it, and I do fully endorse it. Everyone should go buy it. You also have I Don't Have

00:59:18.280 Enough Faith to Be an Atheist, the new edition coming out next month, right? Yes, in October,

00:59:22.440 the next edition of I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist after 22 years. Wow. There's been a

00:59:27.140 lot of updates. Same logic, but a lot more evidence for the Christian worldview. Oh, I love that.

00:59:31.960 Okay, get both. Get both of these. Get this one now. Get that one later. Frank, thank you so much.

00:59:36.380 Thank you, Allie. God bless you. Great being with you.

00:59:43.460 We'll be right back.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - September 11, 2026

Ep 1394 ｜ 'Textbook Demonic'： Charlie Kirk's Murder Reveals Ongoing Spiritual Warfare ｜ Frank Turek

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