The Auron MacIntyre Show - September 28, 2026


How War Centralizes the Power of the State | Guest: News Fist | 9⧸28⧸26

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Diversity Is a Weapon That Dismantles Social Trust | 9⧸25⧸26 Territorialization and Deterritorialization: Why Inhuman Systems Are Hijacking Politics | 9⧸30⧸26

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00:00:18 Hey everybody, how's it going? Thanks for joining me this afternoon.
00:00:21 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.
00:00:25 It's Theory Monday once again.
00:00:26 we've been working our way through an essay from Charles Tilly about the nature of the state
00:00:31 and whether it really acts as a organized crime syndicate and a maker of war more than it does
00:00:39 anything else. Is that the real origin of the state or is there something else? We've done a
00:00:43 couple other episodes reading through this. So when we're done, I'll make sure to put a playlist
00:00:48 so you can watch it from the beginning if you like. But today we are reaching into the portion
00:00:53 of this essay where he really gets into the war making itself and why it's so critical up to this
00:00:58 point we've been talking about the origin of the state and how it acts like a security guarantor
00:01:02 all of these things but today he's going to get into the wealth extraction for the purpose of
00:01:06 war making so we're going to go from there joining me as always for this series is news fist thank
00:01:12 you so much for coming on man always a pleasure thanks for having me on of course so we'll just
00:01:18 dive right into the essay since we are deep into it at this point and we are starting on page 11
00:01:25 of the essay here history talks the arrival of effective artillery came too late to have caused
00:01:31 the increase in viable size of state however the increased cost of fortifications to defend
00:01:36 against artillery did give an advantage to states enjoying larger fiscal basis stripped of its
00:01:42 technological determinism nevertheless beans logic provides a useful uh complement to lanes
00:01:48 for different military formats do uh cost substantially different amounts to produce
00:01:54 and to provide substantially different uh or do provide substantially different ranges of control
00:02:00 over opponents domestic and foreign after the 1400s uh after 1400 the european pursuit of larger
00:02:08 more permanent and more costly varieties of military organization did in fact drive spectacular
00:02:14 increases in principal budgets taxes and staff after 1500 or so princes who managed to create
00:02:20 the costly varieties of military organizations were indeed able to conquer new chunks of
00:02:26 territory the word territory should not be should not mislead us until the 18th century the greatest
00:02:33 powers uh were maritime states and naval warfare remained crucial to international uh position
00:02:39 consider uh fernand uh bruttles uh roll call for successive hegemonic powers within the capitalist
00:02:48 world venice and its empires uh genoa and its empire uh antwerp spain uh amsterdam holland
00:02:55 london england new york the uh the united states uh although brandenburg crush offers a partial
00:03:01 exception, only in our own time have such essentially land-bound states as Russia and
00:03:08 China achieve preponderate positions in the world's systems of state. Naval warfare has by no means,
00:03:15 when naval warfare was by no means the only reason for that bias towards the sea. Before the later
00:03:21 19th century, land transportation was so expensive everywhere in Europe that no country could afford
00:03:27 to supply a large army or a big city with grain and other heavy goods without having efficient
00:03:33 water transport rulers fed major inland centers such as berlin and madrid only a great effort and
00:03:39 considerable cost to the hinterlands the exceptional efficiency of waterways in the netherlands
00:03:45 undoubtedly gave the dutch great advantages of peace and war so a couple things here uh first
00:03:51 he's talking about technical innovations and how they change the state of warfare which then
00:03:55 then changes the way in which you politically organize uh one uh set of guys who did a great
00:04:01 uh podcast on this is actually the good old boys uh the bog beef and merrick over there
00:04:07 they talked about the evolution of firearms and how originally obviously you had these knights
00:04:12 and they had to be uh you know heavily trained they were very expensive and so you had this
00:04:18 futile uh way of organizing society because only a few people could really fight only
00:04:24 people with very high amounts of money could afford to have the implements that are most
00:04:29 effective in war. We're able to deploy them effectively. We're able to dedicate their
00:04:33 lives of training to them. And so as you started to see the arrow come in, once the French knight
00:04:40 starts losing to the English longbowmen, you see a radical change in how states are organizing.
00:04:47 Once you get to the point where the crossbow has become effective, the pope actually tries to ban
00:04:51 it because he recognizes it's going to
00:04:53 completely unspool
00:04:55 the social order as they understand it 0.78
00:04:57 so there is certainly truth here
00:04:59 that the innovations in
00:05:01 weaponry can radically
00:05:03 change how the state is altered
00:05:05 once you have the levée en masse, once you have
00:05:07 mass conscription, once you have the state as a
00:05:09 democratic entity that can compel
00:05:11 large amounts of people to serve
00:05:13 on its behalf, you're looking at a fundamentally
00:05:15 construct, you have
00:05:17 different constructs, you have a scale of
00:05:19 combat that simply did not exist prior
00:05:21 The soldier is now anyone you can shove a gun into their hands.
00:05:26 It's not some highly trained person who has spent their entire life in this arcane art that only a few people can afford to dedicate themselves to.
00:05:34 Obviously, it's also true when it comes to maritime powers, how they tend to be far more affluent.
00:05:41 They tend to have more dominance.
00:05:43 uh i'll obviously uh when you see for instance the way the train transformed the united states
00:05:49 how it no longer had to be built entirely along the mississippi or the eastern coast you could
00:05:54 now contact uh you know connect the entire thing you can move things around when we look at world
00:05:58 war ii and the way that train lines or world war one rather and the way that train lines uh radically
00:06:04 change the nature of combat uh and therefore uh the way that states would be structured uh there's
00:06:09 obviously a lot of underlying truth here that there is a technological kind of gradient that
00:06:18 changes the way that ultimately states are going to organize themselves and respond politically
00:06:22 well this this follows logically if states are based on violence and based upon the monopoly
00:06:28 of violence and the ability to defend and wage war then any significant development in warfare
00:06:33 is going to change that social order so for example the evolution of star forts that were
00:06:39 like a huge thing for centuries until the development
00:06:43 of the airplane, which rendered them all functionally useless,
00:06:46 or the evolution of iron-based weapons.
00:06:50 Up until that point, the major bottleneck for the making
00:06:54 of bronze was tin, which was very, very tightly controlled
00:06:56 because it was quite rare.
00:06:57 You'd, like, ship it really, really long distances.
00:07:00 And then when the, I think it was called the bloomer,
00:07:02 the forge that you could use to melt iron was invented
00:07:06 because iron ore was so common.
00:07:08 And effectively, any small city-state could make their own iron weaponry
00:07:13 and arm themselves.
00:07:15 I mean, are we going to see something like this
00:07:16 with the evolution of AI and drone warfare upending the social order
00:07:22 into a world of multitudinal weird sort of little mini-states
00:07:27 all backed by AI drones?
00:07:29 I mean, I don't know, but yes.
00:07:33 Shall we go on from here?
00:07:35 Yes.
00:07:36 Okay.
00:07:36 access to water mattered in another important way these metropolises on broydles list were all
00:07:43 major ports great centers of commerce and outstanding mobilizers of capital both the
00:07:48 trade and the capital served the purposes of ambitious rulers by a circuitous route the
00:07:54 observation brings us back to the arguments of lean and bean considering that both of them wrote
00:07:59 as economic historians the greatest weakness in their analysis comes as a surprise both of them
00:08:05 understate the importance of capital accumulation to military expansion as jean devry says of the
00:08:11 period after 1600 quote looking back one cannot help but be struck by the seemingly symbiotic
00:08:19 relationship existing between the state military power and the private economy's efficiency in the
00:08:25 age of absolutism behind every successful dynasty should sorry stood an array of opulent banking
00:08:31 families access to such bourgeois resources prince sorry access to such bourgeois resources
00:08:38 prince's state building and centralizing policies so he's basically sort of making the argument here
00:08:44 that um stability uh enables uh the markets stable markets uh sort of lead to the organization
00:08:53 of capital which leads to banking which then leads to the ability of the state to raise
00:08:59 further funds to build armies and, of course, more efficient taxation, which is necessary for
00:09:04 all of this. Great capitalists played crucial parts on both sides of the transaction. As the
00:09:12 principal sources of royal credit, especially in the short term, and as the most important
00:09:16 contractors in the risky but lucrative business of collecting royal taxes, as I just said.
00:09:23 The government's failure to pay these rents, incidentally, helped align the Parisian
00:09:29 bourgeoisie against the crown during the frond some 12 decades later. By 1595 the national debt
00:09:39 had risen to 300 million francs despite governmental bankruptcies, currency manipulations
00:09:44 and the monumental rise in taxes. By Louis XIV's death in 1715 war-induced borrowing had inflated
00:09:52 the total to about 3 billion francs the equivalent of about 18 years in royal revenues. War state
00:09:58 apparatus, taxation, and borrowing advanced in a tight cadence. Well, as did printing of money.
00:10:06 I believe he is talking about the inflation of the Assignan, which was essentially just a paper
00:10:11 currency issued by the French crown that you had to pay your taxes in, which is how they kept it
00:10:17 circulating. I think we've covered this before. This is called a legal tender, where you can't
00:10:25 just rock up to the tax office with a bag of wheat uh you know or a load of bitcoin oh no no no you
00:10:30 have to pay the tax office in a very very specific way who is it that controls the issuance of the
00:10:36 thing that you need to pay taxes for well it's the government although france was precocious
00:10:43 it was by no means alone quote even more than in the case of france reports the ever useful
00:10:50 earl j hamilton the national debt of england originated and has grown during major wars
00:10:56 except for an insignificant carryover from the stewart's the debt began in 1689
00:11:02 oh shit uh pardon me with the reign of william and mary in the words of adam smith it was in
00:11:08 the war which began in 1688 and was concluded by the treaty of rise week in 1697 that the 0.97
00:11:15 foundation of the present enormous debt of great britain was first laid so uh fiat money
00:11:23 banking uh and you know usury as well enable massive sort of government incomes which enable
00:11:30 the uh construction of large armies and depending on your point of view possibly pointless wars
00:11:39 i'm you know i don't know this is uh sorry i was gonna uh interject here quickly uh this is
00:11:47 for the people who have not studied nick land uh this is a big part of his philosophy that
00:11:54 previous to these financial instruments previous to these uh emergent capitalist norms uh basically
00:12:01 traditional societies created almost like a they had a negative uh input on the feedback loop they
00:12:08 They acted like a thermostat on the process of capital accumulation.
00:12:14 This is why usury was generally banned in many of these places.
00:12:17 It keeps this capital acceleration from radically altering society in the very ways we're talking about.
00:12:23 And so once that reaction begins, once you kind of pull the rods out of a nuclear reactor, it starts snowballing very quickly.
00:12:32 It becomes a runaway force because all of those social norms start eroding one by one as the capital accumulation rapidly changes society.
00:12:42 So the process here that's being described is exactly this concept of accelerationism in the philosophical sense, in the economic and political sense.
00:12:56 that once you've kind of started this track of we're going to print money, we're going to create
00:13:02 fiat currency, we're going to do usury, we're going to take out these big loans, you're going
00:13:09 to naturally create these elements of scale that everyone has to do. It creates the tank problem
00:13:15 where because you have tanks, I have to make tanks because the country next to me has invested
00:13:21 in this system of banking and has exploded its capacity for state control through these financial
00:13:26 instruments they now everyone else now must do so to keep up there is no way in order to
00:13:32 maintain your sovereignty as a state until unless you engage in this process and this is why the
00:13:37 city state and these smaller forms of government die is because they are unable to engage in this
00:13:42 process the same way the process is fundamentally one of scale which requires you to move well
00:13:47 beyond a traditional society and melts down all of the things that existed before this process
00:13:56 all right where were we just got done with the hamilton here
00:14:02 hamilton it is true goes on to quote the mercantilist uh charles davenant uh who complained
00:14:12 in 1698 that the high interest rates promoted by governments borrow borrowing were cramping
00:14:19 english trade davenant's uh complaint suggests however that england was already entering
00:14:24 Frederick Lane's third stage of state capital relations when merchants and landowners receive
00:14:31 more of the surplus than the suppliers of protection. Until the 16th century, the English
00:14:37 expected their kings to live on revenue from their own property and to levy taxes only for war.
00:14:43 G.R. Elton's marks the great innovation of Thomas Cromwell's drafting of Henry VIII's subsidy bills
00:14:51 for 1534 and 1540. Quote, 1540 was very careful to continue the real innovation of 1534,
00:15:03 namely the extraordinary contributions could be levied for reasons other than war. After that
00:15:09 point, as before, however, war making provided the main stimulus to increase the level of taxation
00:15:16 as well as of debt. Rarely did debt and taxes receive. What A.T. Peacock and Jay Wiseman call
00:15:24 a displacement effect and others sometimes call a ratchet effect occurred. When public revenue
00:15:29 and expenditures rose abruptly during war, they set down new higher floors beneath which peacetime
00:15:35 revenues and expenditures did not sink. During the Napoleonic War, British taxes rose from 15 to 24
00:15:43 percent of the nation's income and to almost three times the French level taxation true
00:15:48 Britain had the double advantage of relying less on expensive land forces that then its
00:15:55 continental rivals and a drawing more of its tax revenue from customer customs and excises
00:16:01 taxes that were despite evasion significantly cheaper to collect than land taxes property
00:16:07 taxes and poll taxes nevertheless in england as well as everywhere else both debt and taxes rose
00:16:14 enormously from the 17th century onward and they rose mainly as a function of increasing the cost
00:16:20 the increased cost of war making so he's saying here that war is traditionally this engine and it
00:16:28 was the only thing that could justify large amounts of wealth extraction from the people
00:16:33 The king was expected to live on his own lands. He was just another lord who gathered money from his crops and everything else. But ultimately, he could only levy that tax when it's time to go to war. We need troops. We need that extra boost to go ahead and send people to fight somewhere else. And so we have to extract extra money.
00:16:53 with the introduction of the idea that there were non-war causes that were important enough to go
00:17:00 ahead and levy taxes at a higher rate we end up with the scenario where now yes the war is still
00:17:06 pegging the largest amount of extraction yes we're going to war we need more money that's going to be
00:17:12 the main driver driver but every time we go to war and we increase the amount of money that the
00:17:16 state is extracting it stays the same we never go back to pre-war spending levels and of course we
00:17:22 can see something like this in the united states uh where once we create the war the the income tax
00:17:29 so that we can pay for a war we never get rid of the income tax even when the war is over
00:17:34 the tax stays the extra revenue stays we find new uses for that tax that has now been normalized
00:17:41 and then the next time we go to war we find more taxes a new way to do that and then when we come
00:17:45 back from that war the government spending continues to stay at that rate we never see
00:17:49 a drop it just continues to justify a new floor below which we just never drop the spending rate
00:17:55 so the growth of government continues in wartime and peacetime yeah there's a very um pernicious
00:18:02 incentive kind of feedback loop at work here um which is why as as many people have have sort of
00:18:10 pointed out um governments seem to really really like war because uh it not only increases the
00:18:16 amount of money that they can take in, but their power, the amount that they can like fleece off
00:18:23 their tax base, it gives them a sort of existential reason for being. I've noticed this about
00:18:30 government a lot. COVID would be a very, very good example of this. Most of the time, the government
00:18:36 is just out there just sort of administrating. It's not a very sexy job, right? The government
00:18:43 doesn't you know they want to feel uh like you know they're they're doing something existential
00:18:49 you know they want that respect and for example when when covid happened everyone was like oh my
00:18:54 god you know we have to we have to look uh to the government you get certain figures that are
00:18:59 elevated they're suddenly very important people don't just look at them as oh you're the guy who
00:19:02 just administers the taxes which we don't like very much suddenly you're defending the country
00:19:06 from an existential threat they love that stuff and of course they get to increase their money
00:19:12 and how as a consequence well and it's hard not to it's hard not to notice that you know the
00:19:18 american government fought a war in afghanistan for 20 years we finally leave afghanistan and we
00:19:25 immediately need to go fund a war with russia and then go fight a war with iran right and there are
00:19:32 a lot of reasons why that got done we don't have time to discuss them all here have discussed them
00:19:37 other area at length but we can just see that continued stack of then the war never ends there's
00:19:42 always another war another justification that's literally why we came up with the term forever
00:19:47 wars even to the point where when one party explicitly campaigns against involving us
00:19:53 directly in these wars the machinery of government still be seems inevitably tied to produce exactly
00:19:59 this because without those you know the money does not flow the defense contractors don't get the
00:20:04 the money the congressional uh campaigns don't get the money like it's always attached to something
00:20:10 like this yeah the the well it's the incentive structure uh at the end of the day if we could
00:20:16 find out a way to incentivize governments uh and i i think this also like works as well because like
00:20:22 uh you know if you look post-world war ii in both england both the uk and the us um afterwards there
00:20:30 was a big push, you know, well, we're not going to drop the tax rate. Well, what are we going to
00:20:34 do? Oh, we're going to build the great society, right? We're going to build the NHS, right? We're
00:20:38 going to give back to the people. I mean, the way surely to give back to the people would have been
00:20:43 to lower taxes to previous things, but that's, of course, never going to happen. Okay, so what
00:20:50 do states do? It's a fair question, I guess. As should now be clear, Lane's analysis of protection
00:21:00 fails to distinguish among several different uses of state-controlled violence. Under the
00:21:05 general heading of organized violence, the agents of states characteristically carry on
00:21:10 four different activities. One, war-making, eliminating or neutralizing their own rivals
00:21:17 outside of the territories in which they have clear and continuous priorities as wielders of
00:21:22 force. Two, state-making, eliminating or neutralizing their rivals inside those territories.
00:21:30 Three, protection, eliminating or neutralizing the enemies of their clients.
00:21:36 And four, extraction, acquiring the means of carrying out the first three activities,
00:21:41 war making, state making, and protection.
00:21:45 The third item corresponds to protection as analyzed by Lane, but the other three also
00:21:50 involve the application of force.
00:21:52 They overlap incompletely and to varying degrees.
00:21:55 For example, war-making against the commercial rivals of the local bourgeoisie delivers protection to that bourgeoisie, or war-making against a sort of an alternate client group.
00:22:07 To the extent that a population is divided into enemy classes and the state extends its favors partially to one class or another, state-making actually reduces the protection given to some of those classes.
00:22:20 War-making, state-making, protection, and extraction each take a number of forms.
00:22:25 Extraction, for example, ranges from outright plunder to regular tribute to bureaucratized
00:22:31 taxation. Yet all four depend on the state's tendency to monopolize the concentrated means
00:22:37 of coercion. From the perspective of those who dominate the state, each of them, if carried on
00:22:42 effectively, generally reinforces the other, because they all lead to the strengthening of
00:22:48 power of the centralized state. Thus, a state that successfully eradicates its internal rivals
00:22:54 strengthens its ability to extract resources, to wage war, and to protect its chief supporters.
00:23:00 In the earlier European experience, broadly speaking, these supporters were typically
00:23:05 landlords, armed retainers of the monarch, and churchmen. Each of the major uses of violence
00:23:12 produced characteristic forms of organization. War-making yielded armies, navies, and supporting
00:23:17 services. State-making produced durable instruments of surveillance and control within that territory.
00:23:24 Protection relied on the organisation of war-making and state-making, but added to it an apparatus
00:23:29 by which the protected called forth the protection that was their due, notably through the courts
00:23:34 and representative assemblies. Extraction brought fiscal and accounting structures into being.
00:23:39 The organisation and deployment of violence themselves account for much of the characteristic
00:23:44 structure of European states. The general rule seems to have operated like this.
00:23:52 the more costly the activity all other things being equal the greater was the organizational
00:23:58 residue to the extent for example that a given government invested in long in large standing
00:24:04 armies a very costly if effective means of war making the bureaucracy created to service the
00:24:10 army was likely to become bulky furthermore a government building a standing army while
00:24:16 controlling a small population was likely to incur greater costs and therefore build a bulkier
00:24:22 structure than a government within a populist country brandenburg prussia was the classic case
00:24:28 of high cost for available resources the prussian effort to build an army matching those of its
00:24:33 larger continental neighbors created an immense bureaucratic structure it militarized and
00:24:38 bureaucratized much of German social life. So right here, again, we can see the runaway
00:24:45 nature of this process, right? It's a self-exciting feedback loop. Every one of these things makes the
00:24:53 next one easier. It encourages it. It has the incentive structure we're talking about, the flow
00:24:58 that makes sense. So you get rid of your internal enemies, which means you are not only more secure
00:25:05 in your power but you're also more likely to be able to extract more wealth because now people
00:25:10 aren't committed to their money isn't spent elsewhere it's not committed to other organizations
00:25:15 you're not battling all the time for the purchase there once you have more money coming in well now
00:25:20 you can increase the size and the power of the military once you've increased the size and power
00:25:25 of the military you become a more effective warfighter but you also need a larger bureaucracy
00:25:30 And that bureaucracy takes up, you know, commands more and more power. It creates more jobs. It has more influence inside your political system. As we were just talking about, it seems to some extent a large amount of your congressmen only exist to figure out how to get us to the next war so that they can continue to feed their machine.
00:25:48 And so in this way, every aspect of the growth of the state adds to another incentive to grow the state more. And again, the tank problem, the more that is developed on your side, the more someone else has to figure this out on their side, or they're going to fall behind.
00:26:05 If no one else can have a standing army, if you're the only one who has the necessary extraction ability and production ability to create the larger army, not only are they going to lose on you on the battlefield, they're also going to fall behind in the bureaucratic construction that gives you a tighter control over your populace, your domestic understanding, the extraction of tax revenues domestically.
00:26:29 And so they're not just falling behind on the battlefield. They're falling behind everywhere. And so, again, every aspect of this process is pushing people farther and farther, deeper and deeper into this logic of growing the state, growing every aspect of the state, making every victory for the expansion of the state bigger over time.
00:26:47 and also the larger the bureaucracy um the larger the client group that you need to service it
00:26:54 because you definitely do not want your um bureaucracies being run by people who are not
00:26:59 your clients so as the bureaucracy expands you need a larger and larger client group in order
00:27:04 to staff them you have to give them protection um i mean i guess when you when it comes to
00:27:13 the army if you know if they're battling in a foreign place they don't necessarily
00:27:16 have to be your clients but the people administering that army absolutely have to be
00:27:22 um otherwise they they could mess up you know mess the process up and stuff like that
00:27:27 you have to you have to have a sort of uh compliant uh patron client relationship with
00:27:33 those administering the war machine there's a reason that the american military is still full
00:27:39 of guys from texas and appalachia but the actual like officer corps like the the general higher
00:27:46 rank officer corps is increasingly a bunch of managers from washington dc right like they're
00:27:52 very different sets for very different jobs even though they're all wearing the same uniform but
00:27:56 i'll pick up for you here since you just read a bunch of that with respect to state making in the
00:28:01 narrow sense of eliminating or neutralizing the local rivals of the people who controlled the
00:28:06 state a territory a territory populated by great landlords or by distinct religious groups
00:28:12 generally imposes large costs on a conqueror than one of fragmented power or homogeneous culture
00:28:18 this time fragmented and homogeneous sweden with its relatively small but effective apparatus of
00:28:24 control illustrates the corollary so interestingly here even though i think this guy is probably a
00:28:30 leftist seems to have marxist leanings he's noticing something that i have talked about at
00:28:35 length that many conservatives or, well, really right wingers have talked about at length,
00:28:40 which is that the breaking up of a population that has these distinct beliefs, these distinct
00:28:48 demands, these organic, natural phenomena are critical to centralizing the power of the state.
00:28:54 The total state arises by turning everyone into an individual. When everyone is an individual,
00:29:01 the state is the only thing that you interact with collectively, and it's always going to have
00:29:05 more power but when you have these you know distinct religious groups when you have these
00:29:09 uh well-founded uh you know relationship systems based on you know these great landlords or you
00:29:14 know these feudal lords everything else they're going to be far more resistant and able to resist
00:29:18 the growth of the state so the destruction of those groups is critical for this type of expansion
00:29:24 of power which is why you see it over and over and over again that's not a mistake the people 1.00
00:29:29 in your country who are importing foreign working classes who are not loyal to you and your beliefs 0.98
00:29:35 and your way of life, but only to the state that gives them money, that's on purpose. They're 1.00
00:29:41 importing clients to complete this process. Finally, the cost of protection in the sense
00:29:46 of eliminating or neutralizing the enemies of the state baker's clients mounted with the range
00:29:52 over which that protection extended portugal's effort to bar the mediterranean to its merchant
00:29:59 competitors in the spice trade provided a textbook case of unsuccessful protection against the
00:30:05 nonetheless built up a massive structure thus the sheer size of the government vary directly with
00:30:11 the effort devoted to extraction state making protection and especially war making but inversely
00:30:16 with the commercialization of the economy and the extent of the resource space that what is more
00:30:22 the relative bulk of different features of the government varied with cost resource ratios of
00:30:28 extraction state making protection and war making in spain we see the hyper hypertrophy i can say
00:30:36 this hypertrophy i can't say it okay thank you thank you of court uh and of court and courts as
00:30:45 the outcome of centuries of effort at subsidizing internal enemies, whereas in Holland, we are
00:30:53 amazed to see how small a fiscal apparatus grows up with high taxes within reach commercialized
00:31:02 economy. Clearly, war-making, extractions, state-making, and protections are independent.
00:31:08 Speaking very, very generally, the classic European state-making experience followed this
00:31:14 casual pattern and you see the little diagram he has here where war making uh you know flows
00:31:20 protection you have state making flowing to protection you have all the connections here
00:31:24 in an idealized sequence a great lord made war so effectively as to become dominant in a
00:31:31 substantial territory but the war making led to an increased extraction of the means of war
00:31:36 men arms food lodging transportation supplies and or money to buy them from the population
00:31:42 within the territory the building of the war making capacity likewise increased the capacity
00:31:47 to extract the very uh activity of extraction if successful entailed the elimination neutralization
00:31:54 or cooperation of the great lord's local rivals thus it led to state making as a by-product it
00:32:00 created organization in the form of tax collection agencies uh police forces courts uh
00:32:06 account keepers thus it again led to state making to a lesser extent war making likewise led to
00:32:19 state making through the expansion of military organization itself as a standing army war
00:32:23 industries supporting bureaucracies and rather later schools grew up within the state apparatus
00:32:29 all of these structures checked the potential rivals and opponents in the course of making war
00:32:35 extracting resources building up the state apparatus managers of states formed alliances
00:32:41 with specific social classes the members of these classes loaned resources provided technical
00:32:47 services or helped ensure the compliance of the rest of the population all in return for a measure
00:32:51 of protection against their own rivals and enemies as a result these multiple strategic choices a
00:32:56 distinctive state apparatus grows up within each major section of europe so he's explaining that
00:33:03 there is this constant again incentive the better you get at making war as a local warlord uh the
00:33:09 more you get better at extracting the resources that create uh the the conditions of war and
00:33:15 victory in war and because you get better at extracting those resources you have to eliminate
00:33:20 your local rivals uh once those local rivals are eliminated you start to uh look to build these
00:33:26 institutions that uh fundamentally cement your power in this paradigm uh you have to find new
00:33:33 classes of people to run these institutions to be loyal to you the thing you offer them is
00:33:37 protection against their domestic enemies and advantages uh some would say that a managerial
00:33:42 class might emerge uh to fill this in the modern day uh and so again you just see that every state
00:33:49 that wants to compete every state that ultimately wants to be a big player has to follow in this
00:33:55 logic the tank problem over and over again if the the state next to me has eliminated it's all its
00:34:00 rivals it's gotten very good at extracting money if it's you know built these into these engines
00:34:05 of state from uh the standing army to a state education system to indoctrinate its people
00:34:11 then it's going to wield all of those things as powerful weapons against me and so as a rival
00:34:16 state my only option is to accelerate along the same path or fall behind uh in my opinion this is
00:34:23 this is the strongest part of this paper uh this is this is sort of the real nugget of what tilly's
00:34:29 trying to get at. That sort of, you know, the large of the army leads to organization,
00:34:38 which leads to greater extraction taxes, the bureaucracy to administer these things,
00:34:43 the client groups that are needed to run them. And it just sort of like, you know,
00:34:47 builds up in this feedback loop. And a lot of this process really results in what we would call
00:34:53 modern society um although this is presented as wholly bad um after sort of periods of sporadic
00:35:04 war during peacetime a lot of these structures do flow into the rest of society it's just that
00:35:11 because of the the nature of the state as soon as they want to make war again or as soon as they
00:35:16 start running out of like resources or i don't know uh they want a hot cocoa and decide that
00:35:21 They've got to like steal it from Russia or something like that.
00:35:23 The whole process starts up again, becomes even more extractive.
00:35:29 And of course, in the modern world, technology provides a sort of a way to scale this once again.
00:35:34 So possibly another way of putting this with Chile is that one of the main breaks
00:35:39 on the sort of continual evolution of this process is technology.
00:35:44 And once new kinds of technology are found and more scale opens up,
00:35:48 This whole thing starts up yet again, enabling sort of more, even more organization by like a smaller group of people, more extraction, more war.
00:35:57 And this is why every state is rushing towards AI right now, because AI is going to increase your war making capacity.
00:36:05 We already know, you know, these algorithms are being used to do targeting packages and things in the Iran war as we speak.
00:36:12 But it's also going to increase your domestic control over your population, right? 0.60
00:36:16 like it's going to give you better surveillance it's going to you're going to use the flock
00:36:19 cameras they're not for criminals they're for you buddy uh you know like ultimately you know
00:36:23 they're going to gain all of these advantages across the board ai is a new technical revolution
00:36:28 and capacity some people think it's going to be a disruptor that's going to allow uh smaller states
00:36:33 to compete you kind of mentioned that previously you know drone warfare that kind of thing uh but
00:36:37 the other and i think more likely possibility is actually just expands the capacity of existing
00:36:42 states for war making and extraction and all you know surveillance control security all of these
00:36:48 things are all folded into this technological revolution but it also shrinks the size of the
00:36:54 client group that you need to rely upon to run yes your bureaucracy because instead of having
00:37:00 a hundred thousand bureaucrats each who can say cover a hundred people you can have a tenth of
00:37:06 that that can cover 10 times as much so you can shower even more benefits on them they're a smaller
00:37:13 size they're easier to control you can enforce greater ideological rigidity and you can also 0.89
00:37:19 increase the gap between them and the lumpen proletariat sort of you know enforcing the barrier
00:37:25 between who is in and who is out okay how states formed this analysis if correct has two strong
00:37:35 implications for the development of national states first popular resistance to war making
00:37:40 and state making made a different difference really is that what okay when ordinary people
00:37:47 resisted vigorously authorities made concessions guarantees of rights representative institution
00:37:52 courts of appeal i mean i wouldn't say okay these concessions paragraph but this is entirely wrong
00:38:00 we're going to rip it up okay these concessions in their turn constrained the later paths of
00:38:06 war making and state making to be sure alliances with fragments of the ruling class generally
00:38:12 increased the effects of popular action i would say it was essential but the broad mobilization
00:38:17 of gentry against charles i helped give the english revolution of 1640 a far greater impact
00:38:23 on political institutions than did any of the multiple rebellions during the tudor era i think
00:38:29 he's talking about the you know mainly unorganized uh rebellions but um anyway second the relative
00:38:37 balance among of war making protection extraction and state making significantly affected the
00:38:42 organization of states that emerged from these four activities to the extent that war making
00:38:48 went on with relatively little extraction protection and state making for example military
00:38:53 forces ended up playing a larger and more autonomous part in national politics this is
00:38:59 true. Spain is perhaps the best European example. To the extent that protection, as in Venice or
00:39:05 Holland, prevailed over war-making, extraction, and state-making, oligarchies of the protected
00:39:10 classes tended to dominate subsequent national politics. From the relative predominance of
00:39:16 state-making sprang the disproportionate elaboration of policing and surveillance,
00:39:21 the papal states illustrate that extreme. Before the 20th century, any state that failed to put
00:39:26 considerable effort into war making was likely to disappear as the 20th century war on however it
00:39:32 became increasingly common for one state to lend give or sell war making means to another in those
00:39:38 cases the recipient state could put a disproportionate effort into extraction protection and
00:39:44 or state making and yet survive this is an interesting point because what he's sort of
00:39:50 describing uh in a way is uh the eu before trump where because of american security provision
00:39:57 uh they didn't really have to uh spend any money on war making so they could devote all of their
00:40:03 energies into uh extraction and and state making and uh you know giving largesse to their preferred
00:40:11 client groups interesting yeah it's there's a couple things there so yeah this is obviously
00:40:17 a phenomenon where we have we've watched a large chunk of the western world hand their uh you know
00:40:24 their their war making capacity off to america and as you said uh that means that they all get
00:40:29 the reward of being able to do more state state making doing more extract extraction increasing
00:40:35 internal security and control of uh the people inside of their uh borders however of course in
00:40:42 the end we're making a still sovereignty and so that has been a devil's bargain for them because
00:40:48 a lot of these european countries have slowly come to realize oh we're not sovereign at all
00:40:52 like by handing over that that power yes we have these other capacities but it turns out that
00:40:58 ultimately violence is the ultimate authority from which all authority derives and if you don't have
00:41:03 the capacity for violence you're ultimately not the state you might be running aspects of the state
00:41:08 You might be increasing your capacity in those aspects, but you are not the final decider.
00:41:13 You are not the final sovereign in this setup.
00:41:17 I also want to go back and hit this idea that the people were resistant to war making and that's what stopped them.
00:41:24 That's obviously false.
00:41:25 uh so what actually stopped them is that the the king did not have the ability to make demands on
00:41:34 the people because there were intermediate institutions to which they were loyal they
00:41:39 were loyal to the family they were loyal to the church they were loyal to the local baron
00:41:43 they were loyal to all of these other you know possibly war making uh uh apparatuses all these
00:41:52 other pre-state bonds that kept the demands of the king low the reason the king could not constantly
00:42:00 demand the loyalty of troops was that they were already loyal to all these other things and so
00:42:06 they couldn't just show up whenever and fight on his behalf because he did not give them enough
00:42:11 he's not the sole source of their ability to survive in fact relatively low compared to the
00:42:16 local baron the church the family all these things they were far more dependent on them
00:42:20 the reason that they now have the ability to wield this power more effectively the reason that the
00:42:25 people don't push back is not because well something changed about the people it's that
00:42:29 the number of elites the people are accounted to accountable to shifted previously the people were
00:42:34 uh were accountable to a large number of disparate elites with different motivations and holds on
00:42:41 their loyalty once they were accountable to only one set of elites and with a centralized authority
00:42:46 where everything flowed from that state the nature of the interaction changed it was it was a
00:42:51 structure of the elites that changed not the will of the people that was what was keeping the stuff
00:42:57 in check you know another interesting thing that is um and again to go back to the the eu
00:43:03 um because they have such a small military force uh the actual influence of um the military on
00:43:13 politics is basically non-existent. It's not like there are millions of soldiers in the EU who
00:43:21 would, you know, or in member states of the EU who would support a certain party. This is quite
00:43:26 different to the position in the US, where even though the, you know, the army is relatively
00:43:32 small as a sort of component of the entire population, it's not a levee en masse, you still
00:43:37 do have ex-military people in politics exerting a sort of political um thing and so you can sort
00:43:45 of make the argument that the lack of these people in the eu and the incredible focus that they have
00:43:51 had on you know their client groups and extraction and stuff like that leads them to be very delusional
00:43:59 when it comes to to war making right like we're seeing this with the eu at the moment they're
00:44:03 They're like, oh, you know, right, well, I guess we're doing war making again. 0.93
00:44:06 Well, what should we do? 0.89
00:44:07 Well, let's go to war with Russia.
00:44:08 And it seems to be very few people to be like, listen, that's a terrible idea. 0.91
00:44:14 What the hell are you doing?
00:44:16 Because there's no real political force composed of ex-soldiers.
00:44:22 You find this after large wars, all the soldiers, they come home
00:44:27 and they become a sort of cohesive political force
00:44:29 and begin to affect the political terrain.
00:44:33 It's really fascinating because, excuse me, after World War II, America and its civic life was largely defined by these military fraternities.
00:44:47 We have the veterans of foreign wars and the American Legion, and they had a post in usually multiple in every city in America.
00:44:56 the the you know the vfw or the american ford legion was like the bar that everybody went to
00:45:03 and because they were all vets they'd all had that experience and so that's where political
00:45:09 life occurred a lot of times you know when i was working in local politics the first place we start
00:45:14 campaigning was at the vfw because that's where a lot of the movers and shakers are going to end up
00:45:20 that's where politically active people are going to be but as few and fewer americans have actually
00:45:24 been in the experience of going through war you no longer have that faction anymore and like you
00:45:29 said in the eu it's even more so to the point where there there's just no one around who's ever
00:45:33 fought a war before like not really you know they've sent some troops to help american afghanistan
00:45:39 or something but they've they've never actually spearheaded an independent military action so
00:45:44 they're just over there like uh uh i don't know uh get the white guys to in in the uk that are
00:45:50 still around to go fight for ukraine right like you guys are just gonna have to sacrifice for 0.84
00:45:55 even though we're actively telling you we're dispossessing you of the country and english 0.66
00:45:58 english is just a an idea and has nothing to do with your actual heritage or right to the country 0.83
00:46:03 but you should go die for this thing that you don't own right like they can't even get their
00:46:07 rhetoric on board when it's time to go fight a war much less actually plan a military action 0.76
00:46:13 or make intelligent decisions on hey maybe this is too much and we shouldn't involve ourselves in
00:46:17 Indeed, if there were, you know, in the EU or the UK sort of like large sort of fraternal orders composed of military men, they would be looked on with extreme suspicion by the government.
00:46:33 You know, all the armed forces clubs, they're being forced to accept women now, commissars, you know, it'd be terrible.
00:46:42 like you know military men hanging out uh you know what if they use a naughty word or you know
00:46:48 it just it becomes the whole idea of of war making just becomes uh secondary to uh extraction
00:46:56 and protection i i think this is going to end really badly personally uh do you want to go
00:47:02 next part or should i uh let's see here uh this simplified simplified model however neglects the
00:47:07 external relations that shaped every national state. Early in the process, the distinction
00:47:13 between internal and external remained as unclear as the distinction between state power and power
00:47:19 accruing to lords allied with the state. Later, three interlocking influences connected
00:47:26 any given national state to the European network of states. First, there were the flows of resources
00:47:34 in the form of loans and supplies especially loans and supplied uh supplies devoted to war
00:47:40 making second there was the competition between states for hegemony in disputed territories which
00:47:46 some sim which stimulated war making and temporarily erased the distinction between
00:47:51 war making state making and extraction third there was the inter uh in intermittent uh creation of
00:47:58 coalitions of states that temporarily combined their efforts to force a given state into a
00:48:03 certain form or position within the international network the war making coalition is uh is one
00:48:09 example but the peacemaking coalition played as an even more crucial part from 1648 if not before
00:48:16 at the end ends of wars all effective uh european states uh coalesced temporarily to bargain over
00:48:23 the boundaries and rules of the recent belligerence from that point on periods of major reorganization
00:48:29 of the european state system came in spurts at the settlement of widespread wars from each war
00:48:35 in general emerged a fewer national national states that had then had entered it so you have
00:48:41 an interesting dynamic here where you have these kind of fits of a war of outbreak and once they
00:48:48 are done the european community kind of comes together and signs a treaty that kind of redefines
00:48:54 the nature of what states are in that moment now that one state has kind of been burned out you
00:48:59 know these guys have conquered these guys we need to kind of reset the rules on what that looks like
00:49:03 and every time you're kind of consolidating the states each one of these becomes larger each one
00:49:09 of them becomes bigger player by having a seat at the table for the negotiations you kind of
00:49:15 cement yourself as one of the few people that ultimately are one of the few players that
00:49:19 ultimately has uh kind of this ability to make these final decisions and define the outcome
00:49:24 define uh kind of the superstructure that these states are going to exist under post the war and
00:49:30 so you are also narrowing the number of players who can be involved every iteration of this game
00:49:36 so an interesting point there about the nature of kind of european warfare specifically uh this is
00:49:43 not exactly the way that warfare has existed in other areas uh and so it has uh perhaps uh you
00:49:50 could i don't know would you say that this is a function of europe still having kind of the
00:49:54 skeleton of christendom through the pope like you still had this idea 1648 was the treaty of
00:50:01 westphalia which was the start of the westphalian system which is the first thing they teach you
00:50:06 when you you know do international relations at uni and like all sort of like principles it's
00:50:12 it's messy but the important thing is 1648 was the end of the hundred years war and it produced a
00:50:18 principle of whose ruler whose religion which was essentially a homogenizing tendency among
00:50:25 european states um so if you're a country and your monarch was a protestant um then you could tell
00:50:34 all the catholics that they had to leave uh you couldn't take all of their stuff they they had to
00:50:38 leave voluntarily. But this homogenized thing, so you didn't have so much of a situation where 0.80
00:50:45 you would say have a Protestant country. I mean, again, the definitions were kind of different
00:50:52 back then, but with little bunches of Catholics spread around inside it. Generally, during the 0.97
00:50:59 Hundred Years' War and leading up to it, what would happen is that as soon as a Catholic monarch
00:51:04 ascended to the throne, every single Protestant within that territory would start trying to 0.60
00:51:08 overthrow them and vice versa of course because of the the massive split that was caused by the
00:51:13 reformation so the treaty of westphalia um sort of cemented this idea that it was the king that
00:51:20 chose the religion for that nation that nation state westphalia is said to be the birth of the
00:51:26 nation state because of that homogenizing tendency it came down to the catholics the lutherans and
00:51:36 And, oh, my God, there's like one other, I think the Catholics, 0.70
00:51:40 the Protestants and the Lutherans, the Anabaptists were excluded
00:51:43 because of what happened in that city that I did a video of.
00:51:49 I can't remember the name of it. 1.00
00:51:51 The Anabaptists did like quite a bad thing in this German city 1.00
00:51:55 and caused all manner of sort of riot and tumult.
00:51:59 So they were regarded as a bit sus.
00:52:02 um so yeah it was it was a homogenizing thing i'm sure there was like partially sort of like you
00:52:08 know um bureaucracies at scale but the important thing was to basically have some kind of stability
00:52:14 and most of the instability in the previous 100 years was based on clashes between protestantism
00:52:20 and catholicism so a bit what basically like the indian partition this sort of thing happened
00:52:27 essentially all over europe where the king is like you have got a catholic king you're a catholic
00:52:31 country now all you protestants can bugger off and and vice versa there was a great sort of like
00:52:36 movement but afterwards things were much more stable for a while right you had this previous
00:52:42 phenomenon where kingdoms were not ally allied uh totally with the culture or religion of the
00:52:52 people they were ruling over you could have germanic peoples who were ruled over by kings who
00:52:56 had you know no direct relation to their particular religious tradition or you know you would have
00:53:02 they didn't rule over the entire the idea that you would rule over the entire nation of people
00:53:07 was not synonymous with the existence of the state the state and the people were defend were
00:53:13 defendably separate and post West Velia the idea is now the state and the people are one that you
00:53:20 have this unifying homogenizing understanding of religion inside the state there's a there's a
00:53:26 particular dictum that the state can push down onto the people uh that makes them a nation uh
00:53:32 under you know kind of this new understanding uh and so you have a fundamental shift in the way
00:53:37 that we understand uh kind of organizations and that's really hard for people even to get up to
00:53:42 this day they they have difficulty understanding that like people who are not inside the border
00:53:48 of a place called germany could be germans uh you know they had so they don't understand why
00:53:54 you know hitler would declare an invasion to try to unify those peoples again and bring them back
00:53:59 under the rule they don't understand why putin would try to recapture a portion of a place called
00:54:04 ukraine even though it's like ethnically dominated by russians that they don't you know the line in
00:54:10 the map means something to them that it didn't mean previously they have a hard time grasping
00:54:15 uh you know the the way in which uh state organization has shifted i am look i i also
00:54:21 have a hard time grasping this, as a perfectly atomised
00:54:23 Westerner with absolutely no connection to any kind
00:54:27 of religion or ethnicity, I find the entire idea
00:54:31 incomprehensible, obviously. 0.50
00:54:33 Münster is the name of the city in Germany that the Anabaptists 0.99
00:54:37 took over. 1.00
00:54:37 I can't believe that dropped out of my mind.
00:54:39 There is a Fistry episode on that, by the way, if you want
00:54:42 to go over to my channel.
00:54:43 I think I did like four episodes on that terrible thing
00:54:48 and, you know, basically what happened.
00:54:49 um or as international relations early in the process external and internal rivals overlapped
00:54:57 to a large degree only the establishment of large perimeters of control within which great lords
00:55:03 had checked their rivals sharpen the line between internal and external if we allow the fragile
00:55:09 distinction between internal and external state making process then we might uh uh schematize the
00:55:16 history of european uh of european state making as as three stages a the different success uh
00:55:23 the different success of some power holders in external struggles establishes the differences
00:55:30 between internal and external arena for the deployment of first uh force b external competition
00:55:38 generates internal state making c external compacts among states influence the form and
00:55:45 locus of particular states even more powerfully in this perspective state certified organizations
00:55:52 such as the league of nations and the unified united nations simply extend the european-based
00:55:57 process to the whole world whether uh forced or voluntary bloody or peaceful decolonization
00:56:04 simply completed the process by which existing states uh states lead to create new ones so
00:56:12 So actually, this is what I was trying to get at when I was talking about the, you know, America as Christendom coming together, sorry, rather Europe as Christendom coming together and having these negotiations because they understood themselves as different pieces of what was at some level a cultural inheritance that I think flowed from that, you know, kind of that tradition.
00:56:36 And so you have the exporting of this idea, as he says, to these larger organizations like the League of Nations or the United Nations, where they're trying to have take the same kind of council effect.
00:56:48 They're trying to have this kind of these mediating forces between states that allow the creation of kind of modernity as we understand it, nation states as we understand it to exist.
00:57:02 of course you know the the original league of nations comes out of world war one the death of
00:57:07 monarchies right it's woodrow wilson generally trying to make a bunch of ethno states so that
00:57:13 everyone can like understand themselves in this way that would sound horrendous today to the
00:57:17 democratic party from which woodrow wilson of course uh came but ultimately like that was the
00:57:22 the ideal that's what the united nations was originally or the league of nations originally
00:57:27 was for was to create a world in which monarchies had died and now we had to understand ourselves
00:57:33 in these uh in these nation states and of course the process of decolonization only encourages the
00:57:39 emergence of ethnostates because they don't understand how else one can organize once the
00:57:44 colony is gone once the colonial power is gone what are you supposed to do to remake the state
00:57:50 and as you pointed out with the indian partition the question the answer is well we will homogenize
00:57:54 the populations religiously as much as possible to create separate states that can withstand
00:58:00 kind of this new process when the colonial influence is gone and all that gets mediated
00:58:04 again through these uh supranational organizations like the united nations yeah um i mean the nation
00:58:14 state is is a very sort of new idea uh really um but yes the idea of course for the for the
00:58:23 league of nations especially um was to create peace the most hilarious um proposal by the
00:58:32 league of nations was that everyone would disarm except for the league of nations and every major
00:58:38 state was for it as long as uh their opponents disarmed first it never got off the ground for
00:58:45 some reason the funny thing is if you go back and read a few of curtis yarvin's essays when he was
00:58:49 trying to like give his complete understanding of like global governance he basically rebuilt this
00:58:54 system but based on technology instead it's a fascinating thing that he kind of he accidentally
00:59:00 reinvented exactly this process uh but he he cloaked in technology so he thought it was a very
00:59:06 clever uh redoing i love curtis i think he's uh very smart on other things but it was very funny
00:59:11 that he fell into exactly the same trap uh but just put put enough references to blockchain in
00:59:16 to think that he had kind of created a new and different thing
00:59:20 other than basically just the UN from space.
00:59:23 Okay, so we're nearly at the end of this.
00:59:25 Let's get into it.
00:59:26 The extension of the Europe-based state-making process
00:59:29 to the rest of the world, however,
00:59:30 did not result in the creation of states
00:59:32 in the strict European image.
00:59:35 Broadly speaking, internal struggles,
00:59:37 such as the checking of great regional lords
00:59:39 and the imposition of taxation on peasant villages,
00:59:41 produced important organizational features of European states,
00:59:45 possibly because they're very efficient, just saying,
00:59:48 the relative subordination of military power to civilian control,
00:59:51 well, of course, the extensive bureaucracy of fiscal surveillance,
00:59:54 again, of course, the representation of wronged interests
00:59:57 via petition and parliament, all of these things lower internal violence
01:00:02 and enable taxation extraction. 0.50
01:00:04 So I don't know whether he's being all sort of like the bad Europeans. 0.85
01:00:09 All of these are highly efficient systems. 0.94
01:00:11 um the on the on the whole states elsewhere developed differently the most telling feature
01:00:18 of that difference appears in military organization european states built up their
01:00:23 military apparatus through sustained struggles with their subject populations and by means of
01:00:28 selective extension of protection to different classes within those populations the agreements
01:00:33 on protection constrained the rulers themselves making them vulnerable to courts to assemblies
01:00:38 to withdrawals of credit services and expertise i would say it was a withdrawal of credit it's
01:00:43 like the real linchpin there but to a larger degree states that have come into being recently
01:00:48 through decolonization or through reallocations of territory by dominant states have acquired
01:00:53 their military organization from outside without the same internal forging of mutual constraints
01:00:58 between rulers and the ruled to the extent that outside states continue to supply military goods
01:01:04 and expertise in return for commodities, military alliance, or both, the new states harbor powerful,
01:01:10 unconstrained organizations that easily overshadow all other organizations within
01:01:15 their territories. To the extent that outside states guarantee their boundaries, the managers
01:01:20 of these military organizations exercise extraordinary power within them. The advantages
01:01:25 of military power became enormous. The incentives to seize power over the state as a whole by means
01:01:30 of that advantage very strong. Despite the great place that war making occupied in the making of
01:01:36 European states, the old national states of Europe almost never experienced the great
01:01:40 disproportion between military organization and all other forms of organization that seems the
01:01:45 fate of client states throughout the contemporary world. A century ago, Europeans might have 0.63
01:01:50 congratulated themselves on the spread of civil government throughout the world. In our own time,
01:01:55 the analogy between war making and state making on the one hand and organized crime on the other
01:02:00 is becoming tragically apt. 1.00
01:02:02 He's talking about Africa, right? 0.98
01:02:04 He's talking about Africa. 1.00
01:02:06 He is talking about the resource curse countries of Africa 1.00
01:02:12 and bemoans their sort of large militarization 0.53
01:02:16 and blames them on Whitey. 1.00
01:02:18 Of course he does. 1.00
01:02:20 What he, of course, would probably not wish to examine too closely
01:02:24 is whether there is some qualitative differences
01:02:27 between these groups of people that make large amounts
01:02:31 of military force the way to go.
01:02:34 You know, so before, for example, countries like Iraq were destroyed,
01:02:38 it was widely acknowledged, Egypt is like this as well,
01:02:42 that without a strong man, without a high degree of militarisation
01:02:46 in these countries, these countries simply would not function.
01:02:50 Obviously, because the bad white man done draw those borders,
01:02:55 not because of any intrinsic differences between people we are all after all completely the same
01:03:00 as i keep being told so well and no you're you're right that he obviously has a chip on his shoulder
01:03:08 he's angry at colonization he's trying to blame this for the dysfunction as if these people
01:03:13 wouldn't be murdering each other if no europeans had ever showed up we just they just figured out
01:03:18 how to you know uh throw an axe at each other the minute that uh you know europeans showed up on the
01:03:24 soil however there is an interesting dynamic here so for instance obviously we know uh that the uh
01:03:31 this is very true of the middle east right the middle east is almost entirely run by different
01:03:35 states you know figuring out where they got their arms from right whether they got them from the
01:03:40 soviet union or they got from america obviously saudi arabia would not have the position it holds
01:03:45 if it would not for american military influence obviously uh israel would not hold the position
01:03:49 that it has in the middle east if it wasn't for american military influence these are not
01:03:54 organic structures that were built up inside the country over time in the way that they were in
01:03:59 europe they were they were artificially accelerated by the presence of a third party this is something
01:04:05 that i really came to understand um you know i know a lot of people get angry at me for reading
01:04:09 this guy but uh this the reason i do is the insights are are powerful when i was reading
01:04:15 alexander dugan and he first floated the idea that the adoption of marxism in all these countries
01:04:21 that were not ripe for marxist revolution right like the whole point of the of the marxist
01:04:25 revolution is you have these capitalist societies that you know decay into the state that ultimately
01:04:30 brings about the revolution of the proletariat and blah blah blah you you need the capitalism
01:04:35 before you have the communism uh you know they basically expect the capitalism to create the
01:04:40 abundance that will make communism functional after the capitalist state has been toppled.
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01:05:15 rated r the reason that didn't happen in the capitalist state but it did happen in places
01:05:19 like china and russia is very interesting right because those states are not in any way shape or
01:05:25 form what marx was describing they were not capitalist states they did not have this access
01:05:30 they did not go through the process so why did they adopt marxism and dugan's point was that
01:05:36 they adopted marxism as a way to accelerate their own internal capacity for warfare without the
01:05:42 interference of western powers so basically the marxism was not an adoption of a real way of life
01:05:48 though many of these people did then take the ideology to its logical conclusion and try to
01:05:53 implement it disastrously as we've seen for the deaths of many many many millions of people
01:05:58 through famine and other uh terrible things but the reason they took it on was because it allowed
01:06:03 them to centralize command and control economies, create economies of scale, and do it all without
01:06:10 the influence that the Western powers, especially the United States, would have otherwise wielded
01:06:17 if they wanted to kind of up jump somebody into this state capacity, right? And so that's what
01:06:23 we're seeing is that a lot of people who understood this dynamic where, you know, you have this
01:06:28 artificial injection of military arms and influence into a country and it basically made you beholden
01:06:35 to the state right this is something i go to in my book the total state about why liberal democracies
01:06:40 are so important to the united states well because we own them there are no independent liberal
01:06:44 democracies if you're a liberal democracy you're probably a satellite of the united states you're
01:06:49 probably a satrapy owned by us at some level because all of the institutional structures
01:06:54 that allow for scalable liberal democracy are also entirely bound up with the american system
01:07:01 if you want to do something that's not controlled by america if you want to have its own sovereignty
01:07:05 you need something besides the liberal democracy and this is why so many other states were willing
01:07:10 to engage in communism because it gave them a way to build internal capacity for war making
01:07:17 without leashing themselves to the ideological structures of the united states because they took
01:07:21 the aid they took the military weapons they took all of the things that's why the united states
01:07:26 makes every nato country by its weapons and its ammunition and its technology because it knows it
01:07:32 makes it entirely dependent on those people all of their war making capacity is simply an extension
01:07:36 of america's war making capacity and if you want to do anything else then you need an entirely
01:07:40 different system uh so while uh he you know he's he's very spiteful about the nature of uh this
01:07:46 dynamic and you know blames it all for the dysfunction of these areas there is some truth
01:07:51 to the fact that because these areas refuse to reject um you know these out these outside clients
01:07:57 uh as the suppliers of their were making capacity they inevitably fall into dysfunction and
01:08:03 disrepair because they did not go through the process they did not go through the trial of
01:08:08 fire necessary to forge themselves into independent actual functioning nations that has real sovereignty
01:08:14 I mean, Gramsci believed that the reason why communism didn't happen in capitalist industrialized states was because of the middle class and the middle class provided a sort of squishy third layer in between the lower class and the ruling class that made conflict theory much harder to execute, which is why there was a sort of determined attempt by the communists to thin out the middle class.
01:08:43 so as to sort of, you know, dialectically slim down a country
01:08:49 into only two classes of people, the poor and the rich,
01:08:52 which would make conflict theory and thus revolution
01:08:55 more of a viable prospect.
01:08:59 Also, the Americans did actually help the USSR like a hell of a lot. 0.96
01:09:03 That's true. 0.68
01:09:04 Grain transfers, farm machinery, entire plants.
01:09:09 Most of the industrial plants that the USSR wound up with
01:09:11 were like bought from the americans there has been debate over whether there was anything
01:09:16 sinister about this or whether the americans are just like hey you know you want to buy more of our
01:09:21 plants sure you know we'll sell them to you you know um that was very interesting read all right
01:09:28 yeah yeah i think it's a it makes for a good series like i said i'll turn it into a playlist
01:09:33 so people can watch the entire thing uh but uh you know as we said before you know definitely
01:09:38 don't agree with large chunks of of the document but it's a good intellectual exercise is an
01:09:43 interesting framing by which to explore the nature of the state and other political thinkers that we
01:09:49 might be more aligned with and like I said I do think that there are good insights here especially
01:09:55 towards the end we saw a lot more you know kind of tight explanations that have overlapping
01:10:00 agreements with other ideological factions not just kind of where this author is coming from
01:10:06 uh but yeah i think this is a good explanation a good exploration uh of kind of this frame even
01:10:12 if there's a large amount to disagree with uh that gets you gets you thinking about the nature
01:10:17 of the state its expansion uh and why we find ourselves in the position we find ourselves in
01:10:21 yes uh super chats i think yes okay got a few here oh well before we do super chats uh where
01:10:30 should people find your great work mr fist uh thank you yes i have been on vacation uh for a
01:10:36 but I will be resuming stuff this week.
01:10:39 So you can check out the next episode
01:10:40 of Clown-Based Lifeforms on Thursday.
01:10:42 You can find all of my stuff at NewsFist.
01:10:45 Just search for it on YouTube or www.newsfist.net.
01:10:49 I shouldn't say www.
01:10:50 That's like totally boomer-coded.
01:10:54 NewsFist.net.
01:10:55 You can find links to all of my stuff.
01:10:58 Yes, and Fistory will be coming back soon as well.
01:11:02 My history show, I'm already knocking a script together
01:11:06 and stuff like that should be should be good so check it out yeah you guys guys go check that out
01:11:10 uh you know mr fist is going to be on www uh he's going to be uploading everything on his 56k modem
01:11:17 the robot's screaming when he tries to to load into the internets uh he's operating his usenet
01:11:27 group uh you know you can you can check that out yeah that's right yeah weirdy group says uh but
01:11:34 guys graph goes up yes that is always so important that the graph goes up and uh the new gm says
01:11:44 uh good to see you again mr fist yes thank you for your support it is always fantastic to see
01:11:50 mr fist i appreciate him coming by for these extended series it's been very fun to discuss
01:11:56 either john glubb or uh you know this this idea here uh it's a good good good gentleman to dive
01:12:02 into deep essays with and hopefully we will find ourselves another one to start back up on here
01:12:08 soon hey noage good to see you mate thanks for the super chat dude all right so we're gonna go
01:12:13 ahead and wrap this up guys but as always thank you for coming by make sure that you check out
01:12:18 newsfist's work and if it's your first time on this channel you need to subscribe click the bell
01:12:22 notifications all that so you know when we're going live if you want to get these broadcasts
01:12:26 as podcasts you need to subscribe to or mcintyre show on your favorite podcast platform and when
01:12:31 you do leave a rating or review it really helps with the algorithm magic i was just uh i kicked
01:12:35 the libertarian hornet's nest here recently uh and so i have i'm now doing the appearance uh tour
01:12:42 i was just on dave smith's show uh so if you want to catch that conversation uh you can i'm also
01:12:47 going to be on uh liberty lockdown uh here soon i'm not sure when that show will come out i know
01:12:53 the the dave smith ones are you out but if you want to check out those discussions with libertarians
01:12:57 uh you can do that as well thank you for watching and as always we have a final sneaky super chat
01:13:03 from oh someone got in there all right hold on your super chat happy birthday if those are your
01:13:11 real haircuts i can't really say i don't really say uh you know is that is that even your real
01:13:18 hair i can neither confirm nor deny that this is a toupee right like i would not would not do that
01:13:26 to you all right guys uh we're gonna go ahead and wrap this up but thank you for watching and
01:13:29 as always i'll talk to you next time