00:00:55.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:55.000They can't separate you from Make America Great Again, which I think remains one of our big campaign strengths going forward.
00:02:06.000They believe that they can destroy this bond that exists between you and Trump if they somehow make Trump look bad, make Trump look like a reprobate, embarrass you about Trump.
00:02:20.000They can't do it because you came before Trump.
00:02:24.000Days of chaos, go back to your North Star, to the people that saw it very clearly.
00:02:30.000That was one of the last broadcasts that the legendary greatest broadcaster of all time, period, Rush Limbaugh, made.
00:04:16.000Blake, who is brilliant with this stuff, I think he's read it five or six times.
00:04:21.000And we've had some time to sleep on it and go through it.
00:04:24.000The essence of this indictment is, OMG, Donald Trump believed this about the election, but he was told something different by an attorney general, somebody else.
00:04:36.000And how dare he continue to think that?
00:04:38.000This here is a criminalization of wrongthink.
00:04:42.000I'll go through the details to prove it to you.
00:04:44.000It is if you do not toe the party line, you go to prison.
00:04:48.000And I'll give you an example after example after example.
00:04:52.000It says that Donald Trump continually pushed these knowingly false claims that there had been outcome determined of fraud in the 2020 election.
00:05:02.000Now, excuse me when I say, screw you, federal government.
00:05:06.000Who are you to say either way about what is true or false?
00:05:10.000You guys have been lying about everything the last four or five years, lying about the laptop, lying about the southern border, lying about Ukraine, lying about COVID, lying about the vaccine, lying about masks, lying about school closures.
00:05:22.000You guys are telling us what is true or false, and you are going to then use differences of opinions to throw people in federal prison.
00:05:33.000Page two of this indictment, shortly after election day, the defendant also pursued unlawful means of discounting legitimate votes and subverting the election results.
00:05:44.000In doing so, Donald Trump perpetrated three criminal conspiracies.
00:05:48.000Now, time out, After the second time I read this indictment, I said, wait a second.
00:05:56.000You guys are allowed to write this pile of drivel accusing criminal conspiracies.
00:06:02.000And the minute that anybody on the center right accuses the federal government of colluding with big tech to try to get Democrats elected, they call us conspiracy theorists.
00:06:12.000I just find that nugget to be super interesting.
00:06:15.000This whole thing, in its most technical sense, is a conspiracy theory.
00:06:48.000Conspiracy to defraud the United States.
00:06:51.000Conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding.
00:06:54.000This is the weakest of all the charges.
00:06:56.000If conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding is actually taken seriously by our government, every single one of these environmental anti-gun activists that run into Congress, code pink, they should all be in federal prison.
00:07:23.000Many of your Republican leaders are smugly saying, oh, someone who doesn't put the Constitution first, like Mike Pence, the very stoic Mike Pence.
00:07:31.000I'm going to do a whole shtick on Mike Pence.
00:08:23.000But for those of you that watch our show closely and carefully, for those of you that take our warnings seriously, there was a test case.
00:08:33.000Do you remember the young innocent man who we tried our best to raise legal support for, who we actually, I think Turning Point donated, I think, $10,000 to his legal fund?
00:09:07.000By the way, there's clear examples of Democrats doing the exact same thing.
00:09:10.000But Douglas Mackey, being a white conservative meme warrior, faces nearly a decade in federal prison.
00:09:20.000But it was a test case because they indicted him on 18 USC 241 conspiracy against rights, dusting off a KKK-era bill, law, that allows the federal government to criminalize your activity, your constitutional rights, if it's a threat to the regime, if they can convince 12 people to do it.
00:09:43.000This is a well-orchestrated legal trial and error.
00:09:47.000They tried it on Douglas Mackey to be able to use it against Donald Trump.
00:09:53.000And a lot of people said, oh, the Douglas Mackey thing, he made a meme.
00:10:20.000Remember how you feel, and then we're going to talk about what we can do on today, the day that we get to read through how your government wants to indict wrongthink in half the country.
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00:12:04.000Go, I don't even know, go design war plans how to invade Kenya or whatever thing that gets you off and pays the bills.
00:12:14.000We're in a fight for the republic here.
00:12:16.000I hear this over and over again by upper middle class people, exactly what Nikki Haley said.
00:12:20.000Well, I don't want to have to be talking about this.
00:12:22.000They're going to come after you too if you ever do anything meaningful, unless you just, you know, toe the party line and do everything you say they're going to do.
00:13:08.000He's an insanely aggressive prosecutor who, by the way, has basically been set up as a embedded law firm for the Department of Justice, doing whatever they want.
00:13:18.000This indictment, including the document stuff, is so grotesque, is so over the top.
00:13:24.000And it would be nice if the opposition party in our country saw it for what it is.
00:13:30.000By the way, Jack Smith's wife did a documentary on Michelle Obama.
00:13:35.000I mean, this is not exactly impartial.
00:13:38.000This is not like, oh, well, I'm independent.
00:13:51.000It is about getting you to give up, making you disempowered, making your voice diluted or silenced, putting you on the fringes to demoralize you.
00:14:01.000Remember, that is one of the things that Yuri Bezmanov talked about, to demoralize a population.
00:14:08.000Now, a big part of this indictment, and this is something we're going to talk about in our next guest, is about the alternate electors, they say, this scheme.
00:14:16.000This is trash, what they're going after.
00:14:18.000They are criminalizing, attempting to criminalize your constitutional God-given right to challenge tyranny, challenge elections, ask questions.
00:14:29.000They say, if you ask the wrong questions publicly, if you file the wrong lawsuits, jail.
00:14:42.000They want to make it so that the American people are so scared and afraid of espousing wrong opinions that you shall obey.
00:14:56.000Now, part of this indictment does not include seditious conspiracy.
00:15:00.000That could be coming in a superseding indictment.
00:15:03.000This is conspiracy to defraud the United States, whatever that means.
00:15:07.000Conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, obstruction of an attempt to obstruct an official proceeding, and conspiracy against rights.
00:15:15.000Meanwhile, Donald Trump has several venues.
00:15:18.000James Comey, John Brennan, Bruce and Nelly Orr, Lisa Page, Andy McCabe, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, they all walk free.
00:16:18.000And I'm curious: is he one of the co-conspirators?
00:16:20.000Because there's six quote-unquote co-conspirators here.
00:16:23.000I want to hear straight from John Eastman, exclusively here on the Charlie Kirk show, who, according to media reports, they say he is the mastermind behind the fraudulent elector scheme.
00:16:33.000Well, let's decide next here with John Eastman, exclusively on the Charlie Kirk Show.
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00:19:27.000Well, the first was to challenge the illegality that everybody admits occurred in the election.
00:19:32.000People were changing state statutes without any legal authority.
00:19:36.000That made those elections unconstitutional.
00:19:39.000The courts refused to hear these cases.
00:19:42.000And so we recommended to Vice President Pence that he accede to requests from more than 100 state legislators to give them time to assess the impact of the acknowledged illegality, an illegality that Vice President Pence himself acknowledged in his dear colleague letter the morning of January 6th.
00:20:00.000He said there are numerous instances of state officials ignoring or suspending state election laws.
00:20:07.000And the state legislatures were asking. for time to assess the impact because their governors had refused to call them into special session.
00:20:15.000And now they were coming into normal session and they wanted a week just to assess the impact.
00:20:20.000And in that week, if they decided the impact was less than the margin of victory, they would recertify Biden electors.
00:20:27.000And the scenarios memo that I put together specifically says that.
00:20:31.000If that happens, then they recertify Biden's electors and Biden wins.
00:21:21.000Well, the truth is these electors explicitly in Pennsylvania and New Mexico in the certificate itself and explicitly in contemporaneous statements made by the electors in the other five states were contingent on this then still pending election challenges.
00:21:40.000Because if they didn't meet on the designated day, one of the Constitution's provisions says Congress has the power to designate a day for the electors to meet and it shall be uniform across the country.
00:21:51.000So if the electors don't meet on the designated day, even if they are later certified as the actual victors, their election, their votes may not count.
00:22:01.000And this happened once in our nation's history.
00:22:03.000There was a blizzard in Wisconsin in 1856.
00:22:06.000They couldn't meet until the next day.
00:22:09.000And the acting president of the Senate determined to count the Wisconsin electors, but the two houses, after the joint session was over, debated that whether that was legal or not for three whole days and didn't come to a conclusion.
00:22:24.000So a similar thing happened in 1960 with the Kennedy electors in Hawaii.
00:22:31.000They had lost the election on Election Day in November.
00:22:35.000They met anyway and cast their contingent votes.
00:22:39.000And then when the election challenge ended up going Kennedy's way, those votes were available to be counted in the joint session of Congress.
00:22:48.000This is both supported by historical precedent and law.
00:22:53.000But it's part of this narrative that these were fake electors, and therefore it was a fraudulent effort to interfere with the election.
00:23:00.000Nothing could be further from the truth.
00:23:02.000And part of this also was hinging on the vice president.
00:23:06.000And from my understanding, you were encouraging state legislators to pass legislation to question, at least get to the bottom of the election results.
00:23:16.000To your knowledge in American history, has anyone ever gone to prison or been indicted for encouraging the government to pass a bill?
00:23:24.000In fact, there's actually a provision in the Constitution.
00:23:27.000We all know the First Amendment's free speech cause, but there's another clause, the right to petition the government for redress of grievances.
00:23:35.000We had a big grievance here and asking the government to do something about it or at least to look into it is the very essence of petitioning the government for redress of grievances.
00:23:45.000So there are huge constitutional issues here.
00:23:48.000And I look forward to President Trump and his current legal team vigorously raising those defenses in response to this latest indictment.
00:23:56.000And so, John, I'm reading this trash indictment.
00:24:00.000You've been a brilliant legal mind for quite some time.
00:24:04.000I have to ask you, I mean, the speculation is that you're one of the co-conspirators listed here.
00:24:09.000Is there something you could fill us in?
00:24:12.000Yeah, well, it doesn't take much to go from speculation to confirmation.
00:24:17.000They quote unindicted co-conspirator number two.
00:24:22.000They quote a number of public documents of mine that are in the public realm.
00:24:26.000So anybody that spends half a minute looking at this stuff knows I'm co-conspirator number two.
00:24:32.000My attorneys put out a statement to that effect last night.
00:24:36.000But I suppose it's good news from my point of view that I'm an unindicted co-conspirator rather than an indicted conspirator.
00:24:45.000I look forward to maybe being called as a witness to come to President Trump's defense because getting legal advice about contested interpretations of constitutional provisions is not and never has been and never should be a criminal action.
00:25:02.000What's really going on here is an attempt to prevent people who are unpopular with the elites in our country from having competent legal representation, from having any representation at all.
00:25:13.000The effort by the 65 Project to go after every one of the attorneys that was involved in any of these election challenges, they make no bones about it.
00:25:21.000They've specifically said our goal here is not just to have them disbarred, but to make them toxic in their firms and their communities so that right-wing legal talent will never take on these election challenges again.
00:25:32.000Of course, if that succeeds, then it clears the path for complete manipulation of election processes without anybody willing or able to step up to challenge it in the courts.
00:25:45.000And so, John, I think it's important just to take a step back for a second and remind our audience, what was the context of the 2020 election?
00:25:54.000None of this is mentioned in the indictment.
00:26:05.000We had late-night counting suspicious activity.
00:26:09.000We had an unprecedented, just let's say, spike of reporting.
00:26:15.000And so, John, when you were getting into this and you were starting to advise the president, I think it's helpful to remind our audience, and of course, Department of Justice, who is watching the stream right now, the intent, the intent that you had was to get to the truth.
00:26:30.000Is it now a crime to use the legal system to get to the truth of an election?
00:26:36.000Well, they're certainly trying to make it a crime or at least make it so miserable for people trying to do that that nobody else will want to step up in the future.
00:26:44.000Look, Article 2 of the U.S. Constitution is quite clear.
00:26:49.000The power to direct the manner for choosing presidential electors is vested in the legislature of the state, not the Secretary of State, not the county clerk, not the attorney general, not the governor.
00:26:59.000They are not legally authorized to make changes to the election code.
00:27:04.000If the legislature has chosen to have their electors chosen by an election, they could just choose the electors themselves, as many of the states did at the beginning of our nation's history for nearly a half a century.
00:27:16.000But when they set up an election code, that becomes the manner of choosing electors.
00:27:20.000And the individual actors in the executive or judicial branch don't have the legal authority to alter that.
00:27:49.000The question is whether it had an impact on the election such that politically, in order to determine who the actual winner was, they should take account of that.
00:27:59.000And in Wisconsin, the significant report by former Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice Mike Gableman identified a couple hundred thousand ballots that were affected by the illegality.
00:28:12.000An illegality, for example, the Secretary of State barred bipartisan teams from observing in nursing homes as the law required.
00:28:20.000That was not only illegal, but it opened the door for a massive and proven fraud because the ballots that came out of those nursing homes are in many thousands of instances in the same handwriting.
00:28:33.000And so this kind of illegality opened the door for fraud.
00:28:37.000In numerous instances, we've proved the fraud occurred.
00:28:40.000And in Wisconsin, the amount of the fraud caused by that illegality was much greater than the 20,000 vote margin in Wisconsin.
00:28:49.000So this happened in all of the swing states.
00:28:51.000And the notion that we should just forget about it and pretend it didn't exist, it's like that old famous movie where the guy's, you know, big explosions going on behind him.
00:29:21.000Well, the truth is much more complicated and nuanced than that, and it's an open question.
00:29:26.000The language of the 12th Amendment, which parallels the language of the original Article II, said the vice president shall open the certificates in the presence of the House and Senate, and then they shall be counted.
00:29:38.000The House and Senate are there to observe, not to have any role in the counting.
00:29:43.000And there have been significant legal scholars that have held that that means the vice president has the judgment authority if there is a legitimate dispute about the validity of electoral certificates.
00:29:53.000Pence decided he was just going to be a potted plant.
00:29:56.000And by the way, proof that this was an open question, Congress altered the Electoral Count Act because they recognized the prior version of it was ambiguous on whether the vice president had a role.
00:30:08.000They made it more unconstitutional rather than less, however, because you can't, by statute, usurp powers that the Constitution vests in another constitutional actor.
00:30:19.000So the vice president basically punted.
00:30:21.000He said, I'm just a potted plant up here.
00:30:23.000My role is to be a very high-priced letter opener, and that's it.
00:30:27.000Well, I'm sorry, the Constitution and our founders did not create any office with so little judgment ability.
00:30:36.000And we should have gotten to the bottom of this, as the state legislatures were asked, legislators were asking.
00:30:43.000But he chose not to and just keep it under the rug because we don't want to go anywhere here.
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00:32:38.000Well, the DOJ, you know, we don't know what's happening down in Georgia yet.
00:32:45.000The FBI seized my phone over a year ago and it still refuses to give it back.
00:32:50.000The bar complaints in California and D.C. and also the Supreme Court, the latter filed by the 65 Project, the earlier one filed by States United Democracy Center.
00:33:02.000What I call this is asymmetric law affair.
00:33:05.000They file these complaints and then they tap into the vast investigative and prosecutorial resources of the government to go after anybody that is not towing the status quo line by our increasingly authoritarian government.
00:33:19.000And this is a very dangerous thing that's going on in this country.
00:33:24.000It's already curtailing the ability of conservative candidates and causes and individuals from getting legal representation because all of the major law firms are afraid of being canceled by their other clients.
00:33:39.000And if you do that, you destroy the adversarial system in this country.
00:33:44.000You remember Shakespeare once said, the first thing we do is kill all the lawyers.
00:33:47.000Most people think that's because we don't like lawyers.
00:33:50.000But it was actually Dick the Butcher who was trying to launch a coup.
00:33:53.000And he said, if we're going to do this, the first thing we have to do is kill all the lawyers because they will get in the way of what we're trying to do in launching this coup.
00:34:01.000And so, John, what I find to be also so troubling about this indictment, and I'm sure you've had a chance to maybe read it or at least be familiar with it, is that there are sentence and sentence.
00:34:13.000I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.
00:34:15.000But 90% of what's in here seems to just be MSNBC drivel jabs of wrongthink.
00:34:25.000I mean, it's almost as simple as, well, Donald Trump believed this, even though the claims were false.
00:34:32.000John, have you ever seen an indictment like this?
00:34:34.000You're the multi-decade experience legal mind.
00:34:38.000Yeah, no, it's 45 pages of basically false narrative.
00:34:42.000It's as false in its particulars as the long-running Russia collusion hoax.
00:34:49.000And, you know, and they, and they're doubling down on the falsity.
00:34:52.000The main claim is, you know, that Trump lost the election.
00:34:55.000It was free and legitimate because Bill Barr and Krebs said so.
00:35:00.000And the rest of us are supposed to just bend the knee despite all the evidence to the contrary.
00:35:05.000And because the government has said so.
00:35:07.000This is why I talk about this in authoritarian terms.
00:35:11.000Whether it's the COVID origins or the COVID vaccine or CRT or transgender men exposing themselves to your teenage daughters in their showers, the government has spoken and we're just supposed to like sheep go along with it.
00:35:24.000That is the very definition of authoritarianism.
00:35:27.000And we are on the precipice of locking that in in this country unless people like me and you and others stand up against it.
00:35:40.000It costs us a lot, and we have to be willing to defend it.
00:35:44.000So, John, can you just give us a little bit of a battle plan then?
00:35:47.000Do you anticipate that you will be indicted?
00:35:50.000Do you think there's more indictments coming?
00:35:52.000Just give us kind of how you think this thing's going to unfold from a timeline perspective.
00:35:56.000Well, there's a five-year statute of limitation on all this stuff.
00:36:00.000So I think they needed to go after President Trump sooner rather than later because of the election calendar and DOJ policy about indictments against candidates for office.
00:36:13.000That means that the rest of us will kind of be in limbo for a while.
00:36:18.000But I also think that their main target of this whole thing has always been President Trump.
00:36:22.000The rest of us are just there as fodder if they can use us to their advantage in any way.
00:36:28.000What I found interesting in all of this is the expectation that by naming me or others as unindicted co-conspirators, we would run to the Department of Justice and offer to give up the goods on Trump.
00:36:40.000I mean, two things wrong with that story.
00:36:43.000One, it would be unethical for me as a lawyer to do that, even if I have the goods.
00:36:47.000And the second thing wrong with it is there are no goods to have because everything we did was above board and legal.
00:36:54.000It was legitimate challenges to clear illegalities in the conduct of the election.
00:36:59.000And people need to keep that front and center.
00:37:02.000And, you know, and so I don't have any bargaining chips to negotiate a plea deal with the Department of Justice anyway, because there is nothing there to bargain with.
00:37:15.000This is Lavrentiy Berea, NKVD of the Soviet Union stuff.
00:37:20.000Show me the man and I'll find you the crime.
00:37:23.000Or our own former Supreme Court Justice, Robert Jackson, who in a very important 1940 speech to the U.S. attorneys of the United States, warned them against using what he called the most awesome power of the prosecutor, which is to decide not a case that needs to be prosecuted, but a person you want to go after and then scour the books to see if you can find something to go after him with.
00:37:49.000They wanted to go after Trump because he's punching back against a deep state that has become increasingly unresponsive to the sovereignty of the American people.
00:37:58.000Just to summarize all this, John Eastman is quote unquote involved to the extent that he wanted to ask questions about an election unlike anything we have ever seen.
00:38:07.000Final thoughts, John Eastman, and also it's gibsendgo.com slash Eastman.
00:38:14.000And thanks for putting this on the show.
00:38:16.000We need the only way we defeat this terrible step that's been taken here is to highlight what's going on and to push back with everything we've got.