The Charlie Kirk Show - August 02, 2023


The January 6 Indictment with "Co-Conspirator 2" John Eastman


Episode Stats


Length

39 minutes

Words per minute

167.00426

Word count

6,541

Sentence count

528

Harmful content

Toxicity

15

sentences flagged

Hate speech

4

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Donald Trump has been charged with conspiracy to obstruct justice and conspiracy to commit wire fraud. The charge carries a maximum penalty of 15 years in prison and a fine of $500,000 to $1 million. President Trump and his campaign team have been accused of lying to the FBI and other law enforcement agencies about the 2016 election.

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Charlie Kirk Show" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody, we go through the indictment.
00:00:01.000 That's right.
00:00:02.000 The indictment with John Eastman, who's actually included in the indictment, exclusive interview, bombshell interview.
00:00:10.000 Email us freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:00:12.000 Get involved with TurningPointUSA at tpusa.com.
00:00:14.000 That is tpusa.com.
00:00:16.000 Start a high school or college chapter today at tpusa.com.
00:00:19.000 Get involved in the movement to save western civilization.
00:00:22.000 That is tpusa.com.
00:00:24.000 That is tpusa.com.
00:00:26.000 Email me as always: freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:00:29.000 That is freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:00:32.000 Buckle up, everybody.
00:00:33.000 Here we go.
00:00:34.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
00:00:36.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
00:00:38.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
00:00:41.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
00:00:44.000 I want to thank Charlie.
00:00:45.000 He's an incredible guy.
00:00:46.000 His spirit, his love of this country.
00:00:48.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.
00:00:54.000 Turning point USA.
00:00:55.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:04.000 That's why we are here.
00:01:07.000 Brought to you by the Loan Experts I Trust, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage at andrewandTodd.com.
00:01:16.000 I know they desperately want Trump gone, and I know that they desperately want it codified that Trump cannot run again.
00:01:24.000 Because make no mistake, they remain scared to death of you, and they remain scared to death of Trump.
00:01:31.000 Trump, 75 million, 80 million votes.
00:01:34.000 And I'm going to tell you, you're not going anywhere.
00:01:39.000 Even if Trump does, you're not.
00:01:42.000 They can't separate you from Trump.
00:01:46.000 And more importantly, they can't separate you from the ideas.
00:01:52.000 They can't separate you from MAGA.
00:01:55.000 They can't separate you from Make America Great Again, which I think remains one of our big campaign strengths going forward.
00:02:06.000 They believe that they can destroy this bond that exists between you and Trump if they somehow make Trump look bad, make Trump look like a reprobate, embarrass you about Trump.
00:02:20.000 They can't do it because you came before Trump.
00:02:24.000 Days of chaos, go back to your North Star, to the people that saw it very clearly.
00:02:30.000 That was one of the last broadcasts that the legendary greatest broadcaster of all time, period, Rush Limbaugh, made.
00:02:37.000 And he predicted all this.
00:02:38.000 He said, they're going to try to throw Trump in prison because they hate you, but you're not going anywhere.
00:02:43.000 And that is comforting and soothing today because what we're about to go into is not comforting and not soothing.
00:02:49.000 It is tumultuous.
00:02:50.000 It's uncertain.
00:02:50.000 It's disappointing.
00:02:51.000 It's depressing.
00:02:52.000 It's infuriating.
00:02:53.000 But I think it's important to start with the great Rush Limbaugh reminding us that you're not going anywhere.
00:02:59.000 One of the last things that Rush told us: that you are not going anywhere.
00:03:04.000 The ideas are not going anywhere.
00:03:06.000 They can indict, they can raid, they can smear, they can slander, they can censor, but our resolve only strengthens.
00:03:14.000 And that is a beautiful way to start today.
00:03:17.000 All right, let's get right into it. 0.98
00:03:19.000 45 pages of trash. 0.98
00:03:21.000 This is your government, everybody. 0.98
00:03:22.000 For those of you that have to pay your taxes, work hard to make sure the government gets their money.
00:03:28.000 This is a grotesque middle finger to decent society.
00:03:33.000 There is no other way around it.
00:03:34.000 Any rational legal mind reads this thing and they say, what?
00:03:41.000 What?
00:03:42.000 This right here, if I had to distill all this down, it's they're criminalizing facing 515 years in prison.
00:03:53.000 That's right.
00:03:54.000 515 years in prison, which would be like from Machiavelli to now, just so we're clear, right, Blake, more or less?
00:04:02.000 It's like from the Machiavelli when he wrote The Prince 500 years ago to now.
00:04:07.000 Just that's how long the prison sentence would be.
00:04:10.000 If you don't think correctly.
00:04:14.000 I've read this thing three times now.
00:04:16.000 Blake, who is brilliant with this stuff, I think he's read it five or six times.
00:04:21.000 And we've had some time to sleep on it and go through it.
00:04:24.000 The essence of this indictment is, OMG, Donald Trump believed this about the election, but he was told something different by an attorney general, somebody else.
00:04:36.000 And how dare he continue to think that?
00:04:38.000 This here is a criminalization of wrongthink.
00:04:42.000 I'll go through the details to prove it to you.
00:04:44.000 It is if you do not toe the party line, you go to prison.
00:04:48.000 And I'll give you an example after example after example.
00:04:52.000 It says that Donald Trump continually pushed these knowingly false claims that there had been outcome determined of fraud in the 2020 election.
00:05:02.000 Now, excuse me when I say, screw you, federal government.
00:05:06.000 Who are you to say either way about what is true or false? 0.96
00:05:10.000 You guys have been lying about everything the last four or five years, lying about the laptop, lying about the southern border, lying about Ukraine, lying about COVID, lying about the vaccine, lying about masks, lying about school closures.
00:05:22.000 You guys are telling us what is true or false, and you are going to then use differences of opinions to throw people in federal prison.
00:05:33.000 Page two of this indictment, shortly after election day, the defendant also pursued unlawful means of discounting legitimate votes and subverting the election results.
00:05:44.000 In doing so, Donald Trump perpetrated three criminal conspiracies.
00:05:48.000 Now, time out, After the second time I read this indictment, I said, wait a second.
00:05:56.000 You guys are allowed to write this pile of drivel accusing criminal conspiracies.
00:06:02.000 And the minute that anybody on the center right accuses the federal government of colluding with big tech to try to get Democrats elected, they call us conspiracy theorists.
00:06:12.000 I just find that nugget to be super interesting.
00:06:15.000 This whole thing, in its most technical sense, is a conspiracy theory.
00:06:20.000 Literally a conspiracy theory.
00:06:22.000 Okay, so page two continues.
00:06:25.000 Donald Trump is being indicted on four counts.
00:06:28.000 And this is just one of them.
00:06:28.000 The document thing is literally, I think, in some ways a distraction.
00:06:32.000 I think Trump can win on the document thing.
00:06:34.000 I think he's just trying to weigh him down, frustrate him, destroy the campaign.
00:06:39.000 The Georgia one is real. 1.00
00:06:40.000 New York is a total thing of trash. 0.99
00:06:42.000 This here, Donald Trump indicted on conspiracy to defraud the United States. 1.00
00:06:47.000 Really?
00:06:48.000 Conspiracy to defraud the United States.
00:06:51.000 Conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding.
00:06:54.000 This is the weakest of all the charges.
00:06:56.000 If conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding is actually taken seriously by our government, every single one of these environmental anti-gun activists that run into Congress, code pink, they should all be in federal prison.
00:07:10.000 That's a joke.
00:07:11.000 Obstruction of an attempt to obstruct official proceedings.
00:07:15.000 There's two.
00:07:16.000 Conspiracy to obstruct and obstruction.
00:07:17.000 The conspiracy one's more serious.
00:07:19.000 Now, this is the one that should just infuriate you.
00:07:22.000 And it's not.
00:07:23.000 Many of your Republican leaders are smugly saying, oh, someone who doesn't put the Constitution first, like Mike Pence, the very stoic Mike Pence.
00:07:31.000 I'm going to do a whole shtick on Mike Pence.
00:07:34.000 So not go anywhere.
00:07:35.000 Get your popcorn, get your coffee, whatever it is.
00:07:39.000 We got a whole rigorum on Mike Pence.
00:07:43.000 That guy yesterday brought me to a 10.
00:07:46.000 And it's hard to get me to a 10.
00:07:48.000 I don't like getting to a 10.
00:07:50.000 But what he said yesterday was so pompous.
00:07:53.000 I think the new word we use is sanctimonious, self-righteous.
00:07:58.000 I'll get to that in a second.
00:08:00.000 Conspiracy against rights.
00:08:02.000 What in the fresh heck is conspiracy against rights?
00:08:06.000 18 U.S.C. Criminal Code 241.
00:08:09.000 What in the heck is that?
00:08:11.000 Conspiracy against rights?
00:08:13.000 Well, it was passed in the 1870s, known as the KKK Act.
00:08:19.000 Not used very frequently.
00:08:22.000 It's hard to prove.
00:08:23.000 But for those of you that watch our show closely and carefully, for those of you that take our warnings seriously, there was a test case.
00:08:33.000 Do you remember the young innocent man who we tried our best to raise legal support for, who we actually, I think Turning Point donated, I think, $10,000 to his legal fund?
00:08:43.000 Douglas Mackey.
00:08:45.000 Does that name ring a bell?
00:08:46.000 Well, recently, Douglas Mackey was sentenced.
00:08:48.000 Well, I don't know if he's been sentenced.
00:08:49.000 He's been convicted, awaiting sentencing because he made a meme in the 2016 election.
00:08:57.000 Remember that?
00:08:58.000 Because he made a meme making fun of Hillary Clinton.
00:09:01.000 The Biden DOJ goes and says, we're going to put you in federal prison.
00:09:04.000 Now, we were infuriated about this.
00:09:05.000 Tucker Carlson, to his great credit.
00:09:07.000 By the way, there's clear examples of Democrats doing the exact same thing.
00:09:10.000 But Douglas Mackey, being a white conservative meme warrior, faces nearly a decade in federal prison.
00:09:20.000 But it was a test case because they indicted him on 18 USC 241 conspiracy against rights, dusting off a KKK-era bill, law, that allows the federal government to criminalize your activity, your constitutional rights, if it's a threat to the regime, if they can convince 12 people to do it.
00:09:43.000 This is a well-orchestrated legal trial and error.
00:09:47.000 They tried it on Douglas Mackey to be able to use it against Donald Trump.
00:09:53.000 And a lot of people said, oh, the Douglas Mackey thing, he made a meme.
00:09:56.000 How does that impact me?
00:09:58.000 Well, Douglas Mackey was patient zero.
00:10:03.000 Douglas Mackey was patient zero of the dusting off of 18 USC 241 conspiracy against rights.
00:10:10.000 And we're going to go through all these different aspects of this indictment.
00:10:15.000 This is not normal.
00:10:16.000 This is not ordinary.
00:10:17.000 This is not acceptable.
00:10:20.000 Remember how you feel, and then we're going to talk about what we can do on today, the day that we get to read through how your government wants to indict wrongthink in half the country.
00:10:33.000 People ask me all the time when I travel about Strong Cell.
00:10:36.000 Charlie, is Strong Cell legit?
00:10:37.000 Charlie, do you really believe in the anti-aging properties of NADH?
00:10:41.000 Well, it's not a matter of whether or not, if I believe it, it's the science.
00:10:43.000 You guys could check it out.
00:10:44.000 Back check me, look at NAD and see what it could do for you.
00:10:47.000 Well, look, I take NAD every single day.
00:10:49.000 Strong Cell is a scientific breakthrough in cellular health replenishment that combines NADH, CoQ10, and marine collagen to boost your body's cellular function.
00:10:58.000 I personally take Strong Cell every day, and so do a ton of Kirk listeners.
00:11:01.000 Go see the reviews for yourself.
00:11:03.000 If you are someone who relies on caffeine or sugar to get yourself going, then you have to give Strong Cell a try.
00:11:08.000 I only have one important request as I recommend this life-changing product.
00:11:11.000 You've got to give it at least four weeks to realize the best results.
00:11:14.000 It takes a little time to re-engineer your body's NADH.
00:11:17.000 Think about it.
00:11:17.000 It's been on decline in your middle-aged body for a year or so.
00:11:20.000 So check it out.
00:11:21.000 Go to strongcell.com forward slash Charlie and read the personal testimonies for yourself.
00:11:26.000 Then use promo code Charlie to get a special 20% discount on your order.
00:11:30.000 Again, that's strongcell.com forward slash Charlie.
00:11:33.000 20% discount, strongcell.com, promo code Charlie.
00:11:39.000 I mean, this is Vichy French type chatter, okay?
00:11:42.000 In fact, I was in Orange County yesterday.
00:11:43.000 It's beautiful.
00:11:44.000 If you live in Orange County, you're very blessed.
00:11:46.000 And sometimes people in Orange County are so disconnected from reality.
00:11:50.000 And, you know, somebody I was talking to, they said, Charlie, I just, I wish all this would go away.
00:11:54.000 And then you say it's not.
00:11:55.000 You think these tyrants and these Marxist utilitarians are going to go poof, disappear because you want it to, Nikki Haley?
00:12:01.000 Happy talk?
00:12:02.000 Okay, then go on the sidelines. 0.61
00:12:04.000 Go, I don't even know, go design war plans how to invade Kenya or whatever thing that gets you off and pays the bills.
00:12:14.000 We're in a fight for the republic here.
00:12:16.000 I hear this over and over again by upper middle class people, exactly what Nikki Haley said.
00:12:20.000 Well, I don't want to have to be talking about this.
00:12:22.000 They're going to come after you too if you ever do anything meaningful, unless you just, you know, toe the party line and do everything you say they're going to do.
00:12:29.000 There is no escaping this.
00:12:30.000 The only way is through is defeat, is dismantling.
00:12:36.000 The only way through.
00:12:37.000 There is no wishing it away.
00:12:40.000 Oh boy, you know, we have to move forward with a new generation of leadership.
00:12:45.000 That's not about any of this.
00:12:47.000 That's consultant scripted talk where you're just tired of having to answer questions.
00:12:51.000 It's not about, oh, this candidate or that candidate.
00:12:55.000 This is an out-of-control administrative state.
00:12:58.000 Now, Jack Smith is supposed to be this independent counsel.
00:13:01.000 A way an independent counsel is supposed to be established, is independent-minded and all this. 0.98
00:13:06.000 He's a jack-booted thug.
00:13:08.000 He's an insanely aggressive prosecutor who, by the way, has basically been set up as a embedded law firm for the Department of Justice, doing whatever they want. 0.96
00:13:18.000 This indictment, including the document stuff, is so grotesque, is so over the top.
00:13:24.000 And it would be nice if the opposition party in our country saw it for what it is.
00:13:30.000 By the way, Jack Smith's wife did a documentary on Michelle Obama.
00:13:35.000 I mean, this is not exactly impartial.
00:13:38.000 This is not like, oh, well, I'm independent.
00:13:40.000 I'm measured.
00:13:40.000 I'm sober.
00:13:41.000 This is pathological.
00:13:43.000 This is desperate type stuff.
00:13:45.000 And I will keep on repeating it.
00:13:48.000 It's about you.
00:13:50.000 It is not about Trump.
00:13:51.000 It is about getting you to give up, making you disempowered, making your voice diluted or silenced, putting you on the fringes to demoralize you.
00:14:01.000 Remember, that is one of the things that Yuri Bezmanov talked about, to demoralize a population.
00:14:08.000 Now, a big part of this indictment, and this is something we're going to talk about in our next guest, is about the alternate electors, they say, this scheme.
00:14:16.000 This is trash, what they're going after.
00:14:18.000 They are criminalizing, attempting to criminalize your constitutional God-given right to challenge tyranny, challenge elections, ask questions. 0.98
00:14:29.000 They say, if you ask the wrong questions publicly, if you file the wrong lawsuits, jail.
00:14:36.000 I hate to be that simple.
00:14:38.000 You read it.
00:14:39.000 That's what this is.
00:14:42.000 They want to make it so that the American people are so scared and afraid of espousing wrong opinions that you shall obey.
00:14:56.000 Now, part of this indictment does not include seditious conspiracy.
00:15:00.000 That could be coming in a superseding indictment.
00:15:03.000 This is conspiracy to defraud the United States, whatever that means.
00:15:07.000 Conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, obstruction of an attempt to obstruct an official proceeding, and conspiracy against rights.
00:15:15.000 Meanwhile, Donald Trump has several venues.
00:15:18.000 James Comey, John Brennan, Bruce and Nelly Orr, Lisa Page, Andy McCabe, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, they all walk free.
00:15:31.000 No indictments.
00:15:32.000 They are perfectly fine.
00:15:34.000 Anthony Fauci.
00:15:36.000 These people get off, and Donald Trump is the one that is the recipient of the full force of the government.
00:15:44.000 So, a major part of this indictment is the alternate electors.
00:15:50.000 Our next guest is being attacked by the media.
00:15:53.000 It's someone who I had a chance to spend some time with a couple summers ago.
00:15:56.000 Very smart, decent man, John Eastman, who is one of the main players in this entire thing.
00:16:03.000 The media tells us that this is the worst guy ever, that you can't support this guy.
00:16:08.000 I like John Eastman.
00:16:09.000 I'm going to say it when he's on the show.
00:16:10.000 I'll say it right now.
00:16:11.000 He's a good man, and I think he's being maligned and scapegoated unfairly.
00:16:16.000 I want to hear his side of the story.
00:16:18.000 And I'm curious: is he one of the co-conspirators?
00:16:20.000 Because there's six quote-unquote co-conspirators here.
00:16:23.000 I want to hear straight from John Eastman, exclusively here on the Charlie Kirk show, who, according to media reports, they say he is the mastermind behind the fraudulent elector scheme.
00:16:33.000 Well, let's decide next here with John Eastman, exclusively on the Charlie Kirk Show.
00:16:41.000 All right, I got an important thing to share with you.
00:16:44.000 You are probably tired about all these left-wing progressive companies, and you're probably exhausted with trying to keep up with all their virtue signaling and their woke nonsense.
00:16:53.000 It's a question, right?
00:16:55.000 Why has corporate America decided to say we hate you to their customers?
00:17:00.000 I mean, I see Adidas.
00:17:01.000 Adidas might as well have a big sign that says, We hate you.
00:17:06.000 Look, progressive left-wing companies are taking over the market, and it's time for us to fight back.
00:17:12.000 I want to tell you about a company I really care about, run by a friend of mine who's a great American, and they're growing, and they need your help, and it's very important, okay?
00:17:21.000 Look, we don't have to fund these companies, the left-wing companies.
00:17:25.000 We finally have an alternative: public square.
00:17:28.000 We have a solution.
00:17:30.000 I hear from people all the time: Charlie, how do we fight back?
00:17:32.000 Charlie, where are the options?
00:17:33.000 It's very simple.
00:17:34.000 It's publicsq.com.
00:17:36.000 Join the movement of millions of patriotic Americans who love truth, our country, and our Constitution at publicsq.com.
00:17:45.000 I use this app all the time when I'm traveling and also my local neighborhood.
00:17:48.000 It's an app and a website where you can get connected to tens of thousands of businesses from all different industries that share your values like life, family, and freedom.
00:17:58.000 Michael, who runs Public Square, does a fabulous job, and it's free to join as a consumer or a business owner.
00:18:04.000 And you can get started today at publicsq.com.
00:18:07.000 Download the app now.
00:18:08.000 That's publicsq.com.
00:18:10.000 How are we going to fight woke capital?
00:18:12.000 How are we going to fight these progressive companies?
00:18:14.000 How are public square?
00:18:16.000 They do a fabulous job.
00:18:17.000 I think the world of them, they're in the arena fighting back.
00:18:21.000 If you are a business owner, download the app.
00:18:24.000 If you are interested in supporting companies that aren't woke, download the app.
00:18:28.000 If you are traveling, you want to find a coffee shop that is not woke, download the app or go to publicsq.com.
00:18:35.000 I'm 100% behind them.
00:18:36.000 You're going to hear me talk about them a lot.
00:18:38.000 It's time for us to join forces and build the parallel economy.
00:18:43.000 Public Square.
00:18:44.000 I have vetted them.
00:18:45.000 I've got to know them really well.
00:18:46.000 I've looked at the company deeply.
00:18:48.000 Fabulous people, ethical Christian, strong conservatives.
00:18:52.000 PublicSQ.com.
00:18:54.000 Go there right now.
00:18:55.000 Download the app.
00:18:56.000 It's a free app.
00:18:56.000 It is free.
00:18:57.000 Free to join, especially if you're a business owner.
00:19:00.000 Go to publicsq.com.
00:19:04.000 Joining us now is John Eastman.
00:19:06.000 John, welcome to the program.
00:19:08.000 John, I want to make sure you have an opportunity, in your own words, to explain what is going on.
00:19:14.000 There's so much misinformation and disinformation in the media about you.
00:19:18.000 So let me just ask you very simply: what was the plan that you and the Trump team had leading up to January 6th?
00:19:25.000 John Eastman, the floor is yours.
00:19:27.000 Well, the first was to challenge the illegality that everybody admits occurred in the election.
00:19:32.000 People were changing state statutes without any legal authority.
00:19:36.000 That made those elections unconstitutional.
00:19:39.000 The courts refused to hear these cases.
00:19:42.000 And so we recommended to Vice President Pence that he accede to requests from more than 100 state legislators to give them time to assess the impact of the acknowledged illegality, an illegality that Vice President Pence himself acknowledged in his dear colleague letter the morning of January 6th.
00:20:00.000 He said there are numerous instances of state officials ignoring or suspending state election laws.
00:20:05.000 That made it unconstitutional.
00:20:07.000 And the state legislatures were asking. for time to assess the impact because their governors had refused to call them into special session.
00:20:15.000 And now they were coming into normal session and they wanted a week just to assess the impact.
00:20:20.000 And in that week, if they decided the impact was less than the margin of victory, they would recertify Biden electors.
00:20:27.000 And the scenarios memo that I put together specifically says that.
00:20:31.000 If that happens, then they recertify Biden's electors and Biden wins.
00:20:35.000 That's in bold print in my memo.
00:20:38.000 But everybody overlooks that.
00:20:40.000 This was contingent on an investigation identifying impact of illegality in the election.
00:20:46.000 This is something every American ought to support.
00:20:49.000 We ought not to throw this stuff under the rug and pretend that it didn't happen.
00:20:54.000 And contingent on an investigation.
00:20:57.000 That's awfully rational, John, and something I haven't heard the media say.
00:21:01.000 So the left-wing media and the Department of Justice, John, is framing you, someone who I really enjoy and I have a lot of respect for.
00:21:09.000 And I loved our time together at the Claremont Fellowship, as the kind of mastermind of this, what they call fraudulent elector scheme.
00:21:20.000 What's the truth here?
00:21:21.000 Well, the truth is these electors explicitly in Pennsylvania and New Mexico in the certificate itself and explicitly in contemporaneous statements made by the electors in the other five states were contingent on this then still pending election challenges.
00:21:40.000 Because if they didn't meet on the designated day, one of the Constitution's provisions says Congress has the power to designate a day for the electors to meet and it shall be uniform across the country.
00:21:51.000 So if the electors don't meet on the designated day, even if they are later certified as the actual victors, their election, their votes may not count.
00:22:01.000 And this happened once in our nation's history.
00:22:03.000 There was a blizzard in Wisconsin in 1856.
00:22:06.000 They couldn't meet until the next day.
00:22:09.000 And the acting president of the Senate determined to count the Wisconsin electors, but the two houses, after the joint session was over, debated that whether that was legal or not for three whole days and didn't come to a conclusion.
00:22:24.000 So a similar thing happened in 1960 with the Kennedy electors in Hawaii.
00:22:30.000 They were not certified.
00:22:31.000 They had lost the election on Election Day in November.
00:22:35.000 They met anyway and cast their contingent votes.
00:22:39.000 And then when the election challenge ended up going Kennedy's way, those votes were available to be counted in the joint session of Congress.
00:22:47.000 So nothing untoward here.
00:22:48.000 This is both supported by historical precedent and law.
00:22:53.000 But it's part of this narrative that these were fake electors, and therefore it was a fraudulent effort to interfere with the election.
00:23:00.000 Nothing could be further from the truth.
00:23:02.000 And part of this also was hinging on the vice president.
00:23:06.000 And from my understanding, you were encouraging state legislators to pass legislation to question, at least get to the bottom of the election results.
00:23:16.000 To your knowledge in American history, has anyone ever gone to prison or been indicted for encouraging the government to pass a bill?
00:23:23.000 No, no.
00:23:24.000 In fact, there's actually a provision in the Constitution.
00:23:27.000 We all know the First Amendment's free speech cause, but there's another clause, the right to petition the government for redress of grievances.
00:23:35.000 We had a big grievance here and asking the government to do something about it or at least to look into it is the very essence of petitioning the government for redress of grievances.
00:23:45.000 So there are huge constitutional issues here.
00:23:48.000 And I look forward to President Trump and his current legal team vigorously raising those defenses in response to this latest indictment.
00:23:56.000 And so, John, I'm reading this trash indictment.
00:24:00.000 You've been a brilliant legal mind for quite some time.
00:24:04.000 I have to ask you, I mean, the speculation is that you're one of the co-conspirators listed here.
00:24:09.000 Is there something you could fill us in?
00:24:11.000 Is that correct?
00:24:12.000 Yeah, well, it doesn't take much to go from speculation to confirmation.
00:24:17.000 They quote unindicted co-conspirator number two.
00:24:22.000 They quote a number of public documents of mine that are in the public realm.
00:24:26.000 So anybody that spends half a minute looking at this stuff knows I'm co-conspirator number two.
00:24:32.000 My attorneys put out a statement to that effect last night.
00:24:36.000 But I suppose it's good news from my point of view that I'm an unindicted co-conspirator rather than an indicted conspirator.
00:24:45.000 I look forward to maybe being called as a witness to come to President Trump's defense because getting legal advice about contested interpretations of constitutional provisions is not and never has been and never should be a criminal action.
00:25:02.000 What's really going on here is an attempt to prevent people who are unpopular with the elites in our country from having competent legal representation, from having any representation at all.
00:25:13.000 The effort by the 65 Project to go after every one of the attorneys that was involved in any of these election challenges, they make no bones about it.
00:25:21.000 They've specifically said our goal here is not just to have them disbarred, but to make them toxic in their firms and their communities so that right-wing legal talent will never take on these election challenges again.
00:25:32.000 Of course, if that succeeds, then it clears the path for complete manipulation of election processes without anybody willing or able to step up to challenge it in the courts.
00:25:45.000 And so, John, I think it's important just to take a step back for a second and remind our audience, what was the context of the 2020 election?
00:25:54.000 None of this is mentioned in the indictment.
00:25:56.000 You said it perfectly.
00:25:58.000 Unconstitutional changing of state-based voting laws, right?
00:26:03.000 We had mass mail-in ballots.
00:26:05.000 We had late-night counting suspicious activity.
00:26:09.000 We had an unprecedented, just let's say, spike of reporting.
00:26:15.000 And so, John, when you were getting into this and you were starting to advise the president, I think it's helpful to remind our audience, and of course, Department of Justice, who is watching the stream right now, the intent, the intent that you had was to get to the truth.
00:26:30.000 Is it now a crime to use the legal system to get to the truth of an election?
00:26:36.000 Well, they're certainly trying to make it a crime or at least make it so miserable for people trying to do that that nobody else will want to step up in the future.
00:26:44.000 Look, Article 2 of the U.S. Constitution is quite clear.
00:26:49.000 The power to direct the manner for choosing presidential electors is vested in the legislature of the state, not the Secretary of State, not the county clerk, not the attorney general, not the governor.
00:26:59.000 They are not legally authorized to make changes to the election code.
00:27:04.000 If the legislature has chosen to have their electors chosen by an election, they could just choose the electors themselves, as many of the states did at the beginning of our nation's history for nearly a half a century.
00:27:16.000 But when they set up an election code, that becomes the manner of choosing electors.
00:27:20.000 And the individual actors in the executive or judicial branch don't have the legal authority to alter that.
00:27:27.000 They did.
00:27:28.000 They changed deadlines.
00:27:29.000 They altered signature verification process, or in Pennsylvania, eliminated it altogether.
00:27:34.000 They added drop boxes.
00:27:36.000 They got rid of voter ID in Wisconsin.
00:27:38.000 Both of those things have been subsequently held to have been illegal, which means also unconstitutional.
00:27:44.000 The question in my mind was not whether those illegalities occurred.
00:27:48.000 That's obvious.
00:27:49.000 The question is whether it had an impact on the election such that politically, in order to determine who the actual winner was, they should take account of that.
00:27:59.000 And in Wisconsin, the significant report by former Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice Mike Gableman identified a couple hundred thousand ballots that were affected by the illegality.
00:28:12.000 An illegality, for example, the Secretary of State barred bipartisan teams from observing in nursing homes as the law required.
00:28:20.000 That was not only illegal, but it opened the door for a massive and proven fraud because the ballots that came out of those nursing homes are in many thousands of instances in the same handwriting.
00:28:33.000 And so this kind of illegality opened the door for fraud.
00:28:37.000 In numerous instances, we've proved the fraud occurred.
00:28:40.000 And in Wisconsin, the amount of the fraud caused by that illegality was much greater than the 20,000 vote margin in Wisconsin.
00:28:49.000 So this happened in all of the swing states.
00:28:51.000 And the notion that we should just forget about it and pretend it didn't exist, it's like that old famous movie where the guy's, you know, big explosions going on behind him.
00:28:59.000 And he says, nothing to see here.
00:29:01.000 Move on, move on.
00:29:02.000 That's exactly right.
00:29:03.000 The piece that I think is most in public contention right now is the Mike Pence piece.
00:29:09.000 Mike Pence says, I had no constitutional authority.
00:29:12.000 This was a legal coup, bad advice.
00:29:16.000 I had no right to send this back to the states.
00:29:19.000 What is the truth?
00:29:21.000 Well, the truth is much more complicated and nuanced than that, and it's an open question.
00:29:26.000 The language of the 12th Amendment, which parallels the language of the original Article II, said the vice president shall open the certificates in the presence of the House and Senate, and then they shall be counted.
00:29:38.000 The House and Senate are there to observe, not to have any role in the counting.
00:29:43.000 And there have been significant legal scholars that have held that that means the vice president has the judgment authority if there is a legitimate dispute about the validity of electoral certificates.
00:29:53.000 Pence decided he was just going to be a potted plant.
00:29:56.000 And by the way, proof that this was an open question, Congress altered the Electoral Count Act because they recognized the prior version of it was ambiguous on whether the vice president had a role.
00:30:08.000 They made it more unconstitutional rather than less, however, because you can't, by statute, usurp powers that the Constitution vests in another constitutional actor.
00:30:19.000 So the vice president basically punted.
00:30:21.000 He said, I'm just a potted plant up here.
00:30:23.000 My role is to be a very high-priced letter opener, and that's it.
00:30:27.000 Well, I'm sorry, the Constitution and our founders did not create any office with so little judgment ability.
00:30:36.000 And we should have gotten to the bottom of this, as the state legislatures were asked, legislators were asking.
00:30:43.000 But he chose not to and just keep it under the rug because we don't want to go anywhere here.
00:30:50.000 Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.
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00:31:54.000 John, how can people support you and your legal fund?
00:31:57.000 Please tell us.
00:31:59.000 Givesendgo.com slash Eastman.
00:32:01.000 Two things are important there.
00:32:03.000 Three, actually, we use it as a blog to keep people updated on what's happening.
00:32:07.000 People can send prayers via that site.
00:32:10.000 My wife and I read them and they're heartwarming.
00:32:13.000 And then, of course, they can donate.
00:32:14.000 Don't be scared by the amount we've already raised.
00:32:17.000 If they look at update 22, they'll see the 14 actions I'm defending against.
00:32:22.000 And our legal fees are well in excess of even the goal that we've already identified there.
00:32:26.000 So it's giveso.com slash Eastman.
00:32:29.000 And I mean, just walk through this.
00:32:31.000 I mean, the DOJ has unlimited budgets, and they're coming after you so aggressively.
00:32:37.000 It's unbelievable.
00:32:38.000 Well, the DOJ, you know, we don't know what's happening down in Georgia yet.
00:32:45.000 The FBI seized my phone over a year ago and it still refuses to give it back.
00:32:50.000 The bar complaints in California and D.C. and also the Supreme Court, the latter filed by the 65 Project, the earlier one filed by States United Democracy Center.
00:33:02.000 What I call this is asymmetric law affair.
00:33:05.000 They file these complaints and then they tap into the vast investigative and prosecutorial resources of the government to go after anybody that is not towing the status quo line by our increasingly authoritarian government.
00:33:19.000 And this is a very dangerous thing that's going on in this country.
00:33:24.000 It's already curtailing the ability of conservative candidates and causes and individuals from getting legal representation because all of the major law firms are afraid of being canceled by their other clients.
00:33:39.000 And if you do that, you destroy the adversarial system in this country. 0.86
00:33:44.000 You remember Shakespeare once said, the first thing we do is kill all the lawyers. 0.82
00:33:47.000 Most people think that's because we don't like lawyers. 0.95
00:33:50.000 But it was actually Dick the Butcher who was trying to launch a coup. 0.97
00:33:53.000 And he said, if we're going to do this, the first thing we have to do is kill all the lawyers because they will get in the way of what we're trying to do in launching this coup.
00:34:01.000 And so, John, what I find to be also so troubling about this indictment, and I'm sure you've had a chance to maybe read it or at least be familiar with it, is that there are sentence and sentence. 0.73
00:34:11.000 Again, I'm a layman here.
00:34:13.000 I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.
00:34:15.000 But 90% of what's in here seems to just be MSNBC drivel jabs of wrongthink.
00:34:25.000 I mean, it's almost as simple as, well, Donald Trump believed this, even though the claims were false.
00:34:32.000 John, have you ever seen an indictment like this?
00:34:34.000 You're the multi-decade experience legal mind.
00:34:38.000 Yeah, no, it's 45 pages of basically false narrative.
00:34:42.000 It's as false in its particulars as the long-running Russia collusion hoax.
00:34:49.000 And, you know, and they, and they're doubling down on the falsity.
00:34:52.000 The main claim is, you know, that Trump lost the election.
00:34:55.000 It was free and legitimate because Bill Barr and Krebs said so.
00:35:00.000 And the rest of us are supposed to just bend the knee despite all the evidence to the contrary.
00:35:05.000 And because the government has said so.
00:35:07.000 This is why I talk about this in authoritarian terms. 0.63
00:35:11.000 Whether it's the COVID origins or the COVID vaccine or CRT or transgender men exposing themselves to your teenage daughters in their showers, the government has spoken and we're just supposed to like sheep go along with it. 0.58
00:35:24.000 That is the very definition of authoritarianism. 0.67
00:35:27.000 And we are on the precipice of locking that in in this country unless people like me and you and others stand up against it.
00:35:36.000 You know, this is what we have to do.
00:35:39.000 I mean, freedom is not free.
00:35:40.000 It costs us a lot, and we have to be willing to defend it.
00:35:44.000 So, John, can you just give us a little bit of a battle plan then?
00:35:47.000 Do you anticipate that you will be indicted?
00:35:50.000 Do you think there's more indictments coming?
00:35:52.000 Just give us kind of how you think this thing's going to unfold from a timeline perspective.
00:35:56.000 Well, there's a five-year statute of limitation on all this stuff.
00:36:00.000 So I think they needed to go after President Trump sooner rather than later because of the election calendar and DOJ policy about indictments against candidates for office.
00:36:13.000 That means that the rest of us will kind of be in limbo for a while.
00:36:18.000 But I also think that their main target of this whole thing has always been President Trump.
00:36:22.000 The rest of us are just there as fodder if they can use us to their advantage in any way.
00:36:28.000 What I found interesting in all of this is the expectation that by naming me or others as unindicted co-conspirators, we would run to the Department of Justice and offer to give up the goods on Trump.
00:36:40.000 I mean, two things wrong with that story.
00:36:43.000 One, it would be unethical for me as a lawyer to do that, even if I have the goods.
00:36:47.000 And the second thing wrong with it is there are no goods to have because everything we did was above board and legal.
00:36:54.000 It was legitimate challenges to clear illegalities in the conduct of the election.
00:36:59.000 And people need to keep that front and center.
00:37:02.000 And, you know, and so I don't have any bargaining chips to negotiate a plea deal with the Department of Justice anyway, because there is nothing there to bargain with.
00:37:13.000 But that doesn't matter to them.
00:37:15.000 This is Lavrentiy Berea, NKVD of the Soviet Union stuff.
00:37:20.000 Show me the man and I'll find you the crime.
00:37:23.000 Or our own former Supreme Court Justice, Robert Jackson, who in a very important 1940 speech to the U.S. attorneys of the United States, warned them against using what he called the most awesome power of the prosecutor, which is to decide not a case that needs to be prosecuted, but a person you want to go after and then scour the books to see if you can find something to go after him with.
00:37:48.000 And that's what's going on here.
00:37:49.000 They wanted to go after Trump because he's punching back against a deep state that has become increasingly unresponsive to the sovereignty of the American people.
00:37:58.000 Just to summarize all this, John Eastman is quote unquote involved to the extent that he wanted to ask questions about an election unlike anything we have ever seen.
00:38:07.000 Final thoughts, John Eastman, and also it's gibsendgo.com slash Eastman.
00:38:10.000 Everybody chip in.
00:38:11.000 I will be final thoughts, John Eastman.
00:38:13.000 Thank you.
00:38:14.000 And thanks for putting this on the show.
00:38:16.000 We need the only way we defeat this terrible step that's been taken here is to highlight what's going on and to push back with everything we've got.
00:38:25.000 That's what I'm doing.
00:38:26.000 I may be in a unique situation with my career and my education to be able to do that, but everybody can weigh in and help.
00:38:33.000 John, God bless you.
00:38:34.000 You're welcome back anytime.
00:38:36.000 The entire regime is going after John Eastman right now.
00:38:38.000 I hope you guys know this.
00:38:39.000 Every media, intel agency, DOJ, and John Eastman, he's a smart guy.
00:38:44.000 He's articulate, as you could tell, and he's punching back.
00:38:46.000 John, welcome back anytime.
00:38:47.000 Thanks so much.
00:38:49.000 Thank you, Charlie.
00:38:49.000 Take care.
00:38:50.000 And congratulations on all the great work you're doing.
00:38:52.000 Thank you.
00:38:52.000 That means a lot.
00:38:53.000 Thank you.
00:38:56.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
00:38:58.000 Email us your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:39:02.000 Thank you so much for listening and God bless.
00:39:06.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.