The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1049 - Chris Stapleton

00:00:00.000 Ready.

00:00:05.000 Boom! 0.99

00:00:06.000 And we're live.

00:00:06.000 What's up, man?

00:00:07.000 How's it going?

00:00:08.000 Pleasure to meet you.

00:00:09.000 Finally.

00:00:09.000 Pleasure to meet you.

00:00:09.000 Yeah, man.

00:00:10.000 I'm a fucking huge fan of yours. 0.96

00:00:11.000 Well, thank you very much. 0.97

00:00:12.000 I listened to your last album. 0.99

00:00:14.000 I've listened to that fucking thing hundreds of times. 0.99

00:00:17.000 I listen to it all the time when I'm headed to the comics tour. 1.00

00:00:19.000 Puts me in a good mood.

00:00:20.000 Well, that's good.

00:00:21.000 That's what music's supposed to do.

00:00:23.000 I'm just stunned by the fact that for the longest time you were basically doing the songwriting thing.

00:00:30.000 You were doing a lot of that.

00:00:31.000 You were making your own music, but you were known more as a songwriter.

00:00:35.000 Yeah, well, you know, you walk through the doors that are open.

00:00:37.000 Yeah.

00:00:38.000 So you do the things that come up, and somewhere in the middle of that, you find out what your thing is. 0.98

00:00:44.000 But goddamn, your voice is so good, man. 0.92

00:00:48.000 I mean, I don't want to fanboy out on you, but it's just such a classic voice. 0.99

00:00:54.000 Male voice, singing those kind of songs, it's like, I'm glad someone's still doing it right.

00:01:01.000 Oh, well, I don't know.

00:01:03.000 Thank you.

00:01:03.000 I'll also say thank you.

00:01:04.000 I don't want to say I'm doing it right and somebody else is doing it wrong.

00:01:08.000 I'm doing what I do.

00:01:09.000 What you do, I like.

00:01:11.000 I'm just happy there's someone out there doing what you're doing.

00:01:14.000 Thank you.

00:01:15.000 What is going on with you right now?

00:01:17.000 You've got a new album that's about to come out.

00:01:18.000 We've got a new album that came out December 1st.

00:01:23.000 Yeah, we're proud of it and hope people like it.

00:01:25.000 Is it on iTunes and all that jazz?

00:01:27.000 Yeah, you can get it everywhere that music is available as far as I know.

00:01:31.000 That's what they tell me.

00:01:32.000 How have the doors opened up for you now?

00:01:34.000 Does everything feel like...

00:01:36.000 Yeah, we're sitting here talking, aren't we?

00:01:38.000 Everything's good.

00:01:40.000 No, yeah.

00:01:40.000 I mean, beyond good.

00:01:43.000 Good would be the understatement of the century for, you know, just so many things that sound like fake life.

00:01:52.000 Yeah.

00:01:53.000 You know, things that happen, phone calls you get, people you meet, people you get to talk to.

00:01:57.000 Like what?

00:01:59.000 Shoot, man. 0.98

00:01:59.000 Just any of it. 0.98

00:02:00.000 Just getting to go play.

00:02:02.000 This past year, we played three shows with Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers.

00:02:05.000 Oh, man.

00:02:08.000 That must have been amazing.

00:02:09.000 It was amazing.

00:02:10.000 We played Wrigley Field with Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. 1.00

00:02:12.000 Holy shit! 0.99

00:02:14.000 Wrigley Field! 1.00

00:02:16.000 God!

00:02:17.000 What people is that?

00:02:18.000 I don't know.

00:02:19.000 It was a bunch, but it felt just as cool as it sounds like it should.

00:02:24.000 Wow.

00:02:25.000 Man, Wrigley Field with Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers.

00:02:28.000 It doesn't get any cooler than that.

00:02:31.000 Not to me it doesn't.

00:02:32.000 But maybe there's something else.

00:02:35.000 So how long has success been happening?

00:02:38.000 Like two years now?

00:02:42.000 To the degree that it's happening right now, you know, probably since, you know, 2015. A couple years of Good Strong, we're going on three of, you know, playing shows to more people than we knew ever came to live shows.

00:02:56.000 So, yeah, it's been, you know, a strange, life-altering thing.

00:03:02.000 When you hear it, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Chris Stapleton.

00:03:05.000 Yes!

00:03:06.000 What is that like?

00:03:07.000 To freak you out?

00:03:08.000 Well, we don't usually do money announcements like that.

00:03:10.000 We just kind of walk out there and play.

00:03:12.000 That's the move!

00:03:13.000 Yeah, we don't hype them up too much.

00:03:16.000 We just kind of walk out there and fire up.

00:03:19.000 Ah, that might be the way to do it.

00:03:21.000 Well, I mean, everybody has their own thing, but I don't have like a hype guy doing that.

00:03:25.000 You need like the KISS guy.

00:03:26.000 The hottest band in the world!

00:03:28.000 KISS! I remember that when I was a kid.

00:03:29.000 I went to see KISS live a bunch of times. 0.84

00:03:31.000 He'd get so fucking pumped up at the beginning because he would go... 0.54

00:03:34.000 The hottest band in the world! 0.93

00:03:36.000 I've never seen Kiss Live, but Gene Simmons did show up to a show of ours one time.

00:03:40.000 Did he really?

00:03:40.000 It was the weirdest thing ever.

00:03:43.000 We were in New York somewhere, and he just happened to be in town.

00:03:46.000 He played the night before wherever we were playing.

00:03:48.000 And he showed up just to say hi.

00:03:50.000 And here's Gene Simmons on the side of the stage before we go play our gig.

00:03:54.000 And I'm just like...

00:03:56.000 You know, really?

00:03:57.000 Yeah.

00:03:59.000 It's one of those moments we're talking about.

00:04:01.000 You ask about people.

00:04:02.000 That was one of them.

00:04:03.000 It's like, hi, Gene Simmons.

00:04:04.000 Gene Simmons came to see me one time a few years back at New Year's Eve at the improv.

00:04:10.000 Him and his family came to see me New Year's Eve. 0.91

00:04:12.000 I was fucking legitimately nervous. 0.64

00:04:14.000 So the whole time you're looking at Gene Simmons going, or not looking at him, you know, one way or the other. 0.95

00:04:18.000 It was so odd.

00:04:19.000 It was like, you know who I am? 0.99

00:04:22.000 How the fuck is that possible? 0.99

00:04:25.000 Strange stuff, man. 0.99

00:04:26.000 But I love talking to people that are like a year, two years into the situation you're in right now, where you're just kind of getting settled into it, where it still seems like Fantasyland.

00:04:37.000 I'm not sure that it would ever not seem like Fantasyland, because I spent enough years not in Fantasyland to...

00:04:44.000 Realize that it's in fantasy land.

00:04:45.000 You could be.

00:04:46.000 You could be like 71 day on cocaine, 15 ex-wives. 0.89

00:04:51.000 God, I hope not.

00:04:54.000 That sounds horrible.

00:04:56.000 But it seems like it happens to a lot of folks, right?

00:04:59.000 Well, maybe.

00:05:01.000 I'm going to hope not me.

00:05:03.000 Yeah, I hope not you, too.

00:05:04.000 I mean, you seem like you could avoid it.

00:05:06.000 Seems like a horrid existence.

00:05:08.000 Well, there's a balancing act, I think, with any great musician or any great artist, really.

00:05:13.000 It's like doing the art, and then now you're in the Fame Olympics.

00:05:18.000 Like, you're in this weird thing where, you know, you're going to win Grammys, and you're going to have...

00:05:23.000 Platinum albums if they still have those anymore and you're gonna be on these talk shows and people are gonna wreck.

00:05:28.000 It's it's a different animal now.

00:05:30.000 Well, yeah, yes and no no for me I mean I still Whatever we have is because we concentrated on the music and let the music lead.

00:05:39.000 And so trying to do anything other than that, you know, I'll have fun with some of the stuff.

00:05:44.000 You know, if somebody wants me to do a bit on a show or something, I'm fine with that.

00:05:47.000 That's cool.

00:05:48.000 But it still all just comes from music, you know.

00:05:51.000 And it's all, the focus is always going to be the music.

00:05:54.000 And anything other than that, you know, there's never, in my mind, any focus on trying to stay famous.

00:06:02.000 Does that make sense?

00:06:03.000 Yes, and I knew you were going to think like that.

00:06:05.000 I'm very happy you said it that way.

00:06:07.000 I don't make music for that reason or to win awards or anything like that.

00:06:13.000 I make it because I like it and hope that it's good.

00:06:17.000 Well, it's very clear in your music itself that does what you're doing.

00:06:21.000 Very clear.

00:06:21.000 It's very clear that that's pure.

00:06:24.000 That it's just this is what you do and you're concentrating on that.

00:06:28.000 There's nothing disingenuous about it.

00:06:30.000 There's nothing pumped up or fake or Well, yeah, I hope not.

00:06:34.000 I know, right?

00:06:36.000 But, I mean, it's got to be a weird world.

00:06:38.000 I mean, the world of the music business is a very, very strange world.

00:06:41.000 I've talked to a lot of musicians and, you know, navigating the world of commerce and music.

00:06:49.000 There again, if you just simplify it down to let the music lead and let that kind of be always the focus, for me, that makes it real easy to not make decisions you would regret or feel like weren't you.

00:07:06.000 So as long as that's the focus, that's okay.

00:07:10.000 All that other stuff just kind of becomes external noise that we'll all...

00:07:17.000 It doesn't matter.

00:07:19.000 It's not a hard thing to navigate in that realm to me.

00:07:24.000 To you?

00:07:25.000 To me, no.

00:07:26.000 But you must see it being a difficult thing for some folks that you know, right?

00:07:31.000 Sometimes.

00:07:32.000 But some people care very much about...

00:07:42.000 You're the first person to ever get me in dangerous waters like I'm talking about people.

00:07:47.000 We don't have to name names.

00:07:49.000 I'm sorry.

00:07:50.000 And I don't want to sound judgmental in what I'm saying.

00:07:54.000 My wife calls this pulling back the curtain too much.

00:07:57.000 She's like, don't pull back that curtain too much.

00:07:59.000 But, you know, if you want to pull it back, I know that you're the guy that likes to pull back the curtain.

00:08:03.000 I think it's good to look back there sometimes.

00:08:05.000 Yeah, okay. 1.00

00:08:06.000 See what the fuck the monsters are up to. 0.99

00:08:10.000 Well, yeah, I mean, I think if you roll up into the music business, or, you know, this is my experience. 0.99

00:08:17.000 If you roll up into...

00:08:19.000 Wanting to make records and wanting to be in the music business and wanting to live and play music, having absolutely no opinion of what you want to do or who you are or how you do it, and you want everybody else to tell you how to do it and what to do and when and where and why, then yeah,

00:08:35.000 it can be a confusing thing because there will be a lot of external opinions that aren't yours that will create someone that is not you that you will have to play for the rest of your life.

00:08:46.000 So, Was that a lot of information in that moment?

00:08:50.000 No, that's right.

00:09:12.000 You know, at least you can look at yourself in the mirror on it and not hate whatever it is you have to go out and play every night.

00:09:20.000 Right.

00:09:20.000 So it can become like the artistic equivalent of like a soulless corporate job where you just kind of get sucked into something.

00:09:27.000 You wind up doing it for a living.

00:09:28.000 Maybe it makes you money, but you never really get to be yourself because you're sort of programmed into this thing that they've sort of manufactured.

00:09:35.000 Yes.

00:09:36.000 Yeah, well, or you ignore some other passion or talent that you have under the guise of it seeming risky or irresponsible and try to go do this thing that seems like, in your mind, is the normal thing to do.

00:09:51.000 Like when Garth Brooks put on that wig and pretended to be that other dude?

00:09:55.000 Remember that part?

00:09:56.000 Do you remember that thing?

00:09:58.000 I do remember that thing.

00:09:59.000 I love that.

00:10:01.000 I love when someone goes like, whoa, whoa, way off the reservation.

00:10:06.000 I think the story was that, and I don't know if this is true or not, that there was supposed to be like a movie.

00:10:12.000 Yeah, they did a documentary.

00:10:13.000 They did it behind the music.

00:10:15.000 Is that what it was?

00:10:15.000 About this fake guy.

00:10:16.000 But I think the idea was that there was supposed to be a movie.

00:10:20.000 There it is.

00:10:20.000 Chris Gaines.

00:10:21.000 And then this was supposed to be like the soundtrack.

00:10:25.000 But I think the mistake, if there was a mistake, and I'm not going to try to discuss.

00:10:30.000 You're such a nice guy, Chris.

00:10:31.000 Career in the realm of making mistakes.

00:10:34.000 You're such a nice guy.

00:10:34.000 Well, you know, who am I to judge anybody on what they do?

00:10:37.000 Particularly somebody who is as successful as he is.

00:10:41.000 I love I Got Friends in Low Places.

00:10:43.000 Yeah, me too.

00:10:43.000 I love a lot of Garth's music.

00:10:45.000 I'm not a Garth Brooks hater.

00:10:46.000 I think that was just a colossal fuck-up that I think is hilarious.

00:10:50.000 And if Garth was here, I'd pull that up. 0.86

00:10:52.000 And I would tell him I loved him. 0.99

00:10:54.000 And I would say, come on, dude, what the fuck were you smoking back then? 0.99

00:10:57.000 Like, who talked you into this? 0.99

00:10:58.000 Well, you know, I will say, I think at the time...

00:11:01.000 That he did that, he had to be into what in the world else can I do?

00:11:06.000 The only way I can become more successful is if I become someone else and make them successful.

00:11:12.000 He was so successful and still is in that space that he can't be any bigger than he is.

00:11:18.000 Like Stephen King when he used to write as Richard Bachman.

00:11:20.000 Do you remember that?

00:11:21.000 No, I'm not aware of this.

00:11:23.000 Yeah, he wrote a bunch of books under a pseudonym because he was so gigantic that he decided to write some books under a different name so that people would sort of appreciate the work for what it was instead of as a Stephen King book, I think, or just maybe even as an exercise.

00:11:37.000 Right.

00:11:37.000 Well, I think very much that's what it is.

00:11:39.000 You know, I would look at it very much the same way.

00:11:41.000 Of course, it's kind of hard when it's your face up there.

00:11:43.000 He should have put a mask on.

00:11:45.000 Yeah, something.

00:11:45.000 Should have got, like, Rick Baker to do him up with a fake nose.

00:11:48.000 You know?

00:11:50.000 Completely, you know.

00:11:51.000 Yeah. 0.95

00:11:52.000 Make him like an ugly, weathered-looking, you know, saddle-worn dude. 0.88

00:11:57.000 Put a sea wig on. 0.92

00:11:58.000 Yeah.

00:11:59.000 Just go.

00:11:59.000 Yeah.

00:12:01.000 But they had a behind-the-music story on his life story, and the drugs, and all the problems, and the moodiness, and, you know.

00:12:08.000 But the music was always there.

00:12:10.000 It's hilarious behind the music.

00:12:13.000 You can watch it on YouTube.

00:12:14.000 I highly recommend it.

00:12:16.000 Okay.

00:12:16.000 Well, I will watch it on YouTube.

00:12:18.000 I haven't seen that particular thing.

00:12:21.000 But he's pulled himself out of that.

00:12:22.000 He had a giant long hiatus.

00:12:24.000 And here's an interesting thing about Garth Brooks. 0.97

00:12:26.000 You can't get his shit on iTunes. 0.97

00:12:29.000 Oh no, you have to get it on whatever his... 0.99

00:12:31.000 CD or whatever.

00:12:32.000 And there's also his personally...

00:12:33.000 He had something called Ghost Tunes for a minute, I think.

00:12:36.000 Was that the name of it?

00:12:37.000 It was like his own curated streaming service where you stream only Garth Brooks tunes or something like that.

00:12:43.000 I don't know.

00:12:45.000 I remember something about that.

00:12:46.000 Well, I think his idea is that he wants his albums played from...

00:12:50.000 There it is, Ghost Tunes.

00:12:51.000 He wants his albums played from the first song to the last.

00:12:55.000 He doesn't want little bits and chunks.

00:12:58.000 He doesn't want to sell his songs individually.

00:13:00.000 This is what I believe I've read, that he thinks of his albums as one continuous work.

00:13:05.000 Well, I, as much as anybody, can understand that and want very much people to listen to things as bodies of work.

00:13:13.000 But in the world we're living in, sometimes you've got to let people skip over a song here and there.

00:13:20.000 Let people do whatever they want.

00:13:21.000 I don't want to control people's thing.

00:13:27.000 Yeah, and sometimes it's just a song that gets them, and if you sell that song individually, that'll get them, and then maybe they'll check, all right, I'm listening to this a hundred times.

00:13:37.000 What else has Chris got to say?

00:13:38.000 Yeah, maybe.

00:13:39.000 I don't know.

00:13:40.000 So how did you get, quote-unquote, discovered as a singer?

00:13:45.000 You started off as a songwriter, but you were always singing.

00:13:48.000 I was always singing.

00:13:49.000 I was in bluegrass bands.

00:13:50.000 I was in rock bands.

00:13:52.000 Always kind of touring in a pickup truck or something like that.

00:13:55.000 How old are you?

00:13:57.000 I'm 39. And how many years did you do that for?

00:14:01.000 Well, I moved to Nashville when I was 23. And probably the first three years I was in town, I only wrote three times a day, living, eating, sleeping, breathing, songwriting.

00:14:13.000 Really?

00:14:14.000 Trying to learn how to do that in a way that kept me a job at a publishing company.

00:14:18.000 So how does that work when you get signed by a publishing company or you get a job at a publishing company writing?

00:14:23.000 Well, you're a contract labor deal, basically.

00:14:28.000 It's like you have...

00:14:29.000 You sign a deal with, you know, like, you get a year and they get an option or two to pick you back up for another couple years, you know.

00:14:36.000 And what if one of those songs hits?

00:14:39.000 You know, those terms are worked out, whether you have what percentage of publishing they have and what percentage you have, and they pay you a salary in exchange for, you know.

00:14:47.000 Is it lucrative?

00:14:49.000 It can be, yeah.

00:14:50.000 It can be, you know, if you have a bunch of songs on the radio.

00:14:55.000 And so for you, you were getting by doing this?

00:14:57.000 Well, no, I made a very comfortable living up to the point.

00:15:03.000 And that allowed me to go out and play bluegrass for next to no money or play rock and roll and have fun doing it and not worry about that being how I'm making a living.

00:15:13.000 But I got to do it for the right reasons.

00:15:15.000 Right.

00:15:15.000 And so, in a lot of ways, you know, the songwriting thing, the commerce paid for the art, I guess, in that.

00:15:22.000 Which I'm a firm believer in, and some people will argue, this is a conversation that Sergio and I will have, the commerce paid for the art.

00:15:28.000 Yeah.

00:15:29.000 But, yeah, so, yeah, it's...

00:15:34.000 It's a great thing.

00:15:35.000 It still is.

00:15:35.000 I still write songs for people.

00:15:37.000 I still write with people when they ask me to do that because it's cool to get in somebody else's head or kind of sit down with them and try to help them realize some vision of what it is they want to do.

00:15:50.000 That's still one of my favorite things to do.

00:15:53.000 Just as interested in that as I am in doing my own thing a lot.

00:15:57.000 Wow.

00:15:57.000 So when you learned how to write music, when you would write, do you sit down with an idea in mind with a guitar?

00:16:06.000 Do you sit down with a pen and pad?

00:16:08.000 How do you write songs?

00:16:10.000 Well, if I'm writing by myself or with somebody.

00:16:13.000 By yourself.

00:16:14.000 Because there's a lot of different processes.

00:16:15.000 It can be...

00:16:16.000 You know, whatever comes up that day.

00:16:18.000 For me, generally, if I was just going to say, hey, I'm going to sit down and go over in that corner and write a song, I'd have a guitar.

00:16:24.000 I'd probably have a legal pad and a pen, much like we have sitting right here.

00:16:27.000 And I'd start strumming until that felt like something.

00:16:31.000 And how does that make me feel?

00:16:33.000 I don't know.

00:16:34.000 I'd start humming a melody, maybe.

00:16:36.000 And hopefully somewhere in humming the melody, a word would pop out that...

00:16:40.000 Or a noise I would make would turn into a word.

00:16:44.000 And from there, you can kind of grow this...

00:16:57.000 It's not like an affliction that you have.

00:17:07.000 In some way, so you're just kind of walking around unconsciously, things will hit you, you know, or moments will hit you, or a visual will hit you, and that will spark something.

00:17:19.000 So that's really, it can come from anywhere, and that's the truth.

00:17:27.000 It sounds a lot like writing comedy.

00:17:28.000 I'm sure.

00:17:29.000 I personally cannot write comedy, but I would think the creative process is very much the same.

00:17:36.000 You're trying to kind of take life and distill it into something that evokes an emotional response.

00:17:43.000 Do you sometimes sit down with a blank slate like you have no idea what you want to talk about or write about?

00:17:48.000 Absolutely.

00:17:49.000 And that's back to the publishing deal thing.

00:17:52.000 That was my job.

00:17:54.000 We would set appointments.

00:17:55.000 We'd come in at noon, and I'd have an appointment with writer ABC, you know?

00:18:01.000 And we'd sit down and try to come up with something.

00:18:05.000 Wow.

00:18:05.000 That's got to be weird when you first work with someone for the first time.

00:18:08.000 It's a lot of first dates.

00:18:09.000 It's a lot of first dates.

00:18:10.000 But, you know, you find out pretty quickly how you can just kind of...

00:18:14.000 Particularly when you're writing with writers who do that a lot, you can very much walk into a room and kind of throw all the...

00:18:24.000 You know, how's you doing?

00:18:25.000 You just get down to it.

00:18:27.000 You just be like, dive into it and start working on something.

00:18:32.000 Hey, this is on my mind.

00:18:33.000 What do you think of this? 0.99

00:18:34.000 No, that sucks. 0.99

00:18:36.000 And you have to be not nice a little bit to each other. 0.95

00:18:40.000 And even if you don't know each other well, you have to act like you do in order to get to a spot where a song can be something.

00:18:48.000 And do you ever write with no guitar or no music?

00:18:53.000 I have, absolutely.

00:18:54.000 There's a song that I wrote.

00:18:57.000 On the Traveler record that we had a couple records back, Traveler, I wrote driving down the road, you know, driving down through the desert on Interstate 40, you know, wrote the whole thing driving, and then I had to go figure out how to play it.

00:19:12.000 Wow.

00:19:14.000 So as you were driving, did you record it?

00:19:16.000 Yeah, I had a phone.

00:19:17.000 I just turned the voice recorder on.

00:19:20.000 Right.

00:19:21.000 You know, I'm on the phone.

00:19:24.000 My wife was asleep in the seat next to me, so I'm trying not to wake my wife up.

00:19:27.000 I'm being real quiet.

00:19:28.000 Oh, wow.

00:19:29.000 But yeah, and then you get it done, and you put it away, and you go listen to it later and see what happens.

00:19:36.000 Wow.

00:19:37.000 So in all these years, how many songs do you think you've written?

00:19:41.000 In excess of a thousand probably.

00:19:44.000 Wow!

00:19:44.000 Somewhere like that.

00:19:45.000 Do you have stacks of them like laying around somewhere?

00:19:48.000 I mean, they're all cataloged, you know, at the publishing company I write for, you know, and they're all, you know, accounted for for the most part, and I can kind of go back through them and dig in them if I need to.

00:19:59.000 Would you do that, like, for an album?

00:20:01.000 That's what I've been doing.

00:20:03.000 Yeah, all the, you know, this record we're putting out and the last record that we have out, save for a few covers, they're all songs that are, you know, a decade old or something.

00:20:12.000 Wow, no kidding.

00:20:14.000 Yeah.

00:20:14.000 So Might As Well Get Stoned?

00:20:15.000 How long is that one?

00:20:16.000 Oh, God, that song is...

00:20:19.000 It's probably one of the first songs I wrote when I moved to town, so I was probably 25 when I wrote that.

00:20:23.000 So yeah, it's 13 years old, something like that.

00:20:28.000 Dude, love that song.

00:20:29.000 I love all your songs, man.

00:20:31.000 I'm a big fan.

00:20:32.000 Thank you.

00:20:32.000 So when you are touring now, are you bringing your own opening acts with you?

00:20:38.000 Are you deciding who comes out with you?

00:20:40.000 Yeah, and we try to pick people that we know and love and we think fit musically or we just want to support.

00:20:50.000 We have a lot of great people out on the road with us.

00:20:53.000 We have Brent Cobb and Margot Price and Anderson East and Marty Stewart.

00:21:00.000 There's a lot of people that we love.

00:21:02.000 Have you listened to Ben and Brent Cobb or Anderson East?

00:21:04.000 No.

00:21:05.000 No, I'm going to write this down afterwards.

00:21:06.000 Yeah.

00:21:07.000 Give me some suggestions.

00:21:09.000 Yeah, you'll dig it.

00:21:10.000 It's good stuff.

00:21:11.000 Well, birds of a feather flock together.

00:21:12.000 And I know you type of dudes probably only like other legit type of people.

00:21:17.000 So I'd probably get some good data.

00:21:19.000 Well, I guess, yeah.

00:21:21.000 No, we love music, and we like to support that.

00:21:25.000 There's something about the art form of music that has always been very inspirational to me, and I've always drawn upon it.

00:21:34.000 Do you know that Hunter S. Thompson quote about music being fuel?

00:21:38.000 Have you ever seen that quote?

00:21:40.000 I'm not sure.

00:21:42.000 It's on my Instagram page from pretty recently when I was listening to Gary Clark Jr. just a couple of days ago.

00:21:51.000 Dude, that guy can play. 1.00

00:21:52.000 Fuck! 1.00

00:21:54.000 That guy's a freak. 1.00

00:21:56.000 He was with Honey Honey.

00:21:57.000 In the best way.

00:21:58.000 Yeah, and they did a version of Midnight Rider.

00:22:01.000 Yeah, here, music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel.

00:22:05.000 Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel.

00:22:09.000 I've always needed fuel.

00:22:10.000 I'm a serious consumer.

00:22:12.000 On some nights, I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio.

00:22:20.000 I like it.

00:22:23.000 I like music in the car myself.

00:22:25.000 Yeah, it's uniquely inspirational, like very few things.

00:22:30.000 And the art of music and music creation is such a...

00:22:36.000 I think when it's done correctly I should say is it's a very pure art form in the sense that the people that are doing it are really like digging into their creative engines and You know just getting the gears turning and pulling these things out and It represents,

00:22:53.000 like, however much burden you have in your personality, in your life, that can either help you or hurt you in this process.

00:23:02.000 And some people's music sort of represents the torment of their life.

00:23:06.000 And some people's music represents the purity of their vision.

00:23:09.000 But it all has different effects on people in some sort of strange and bizarre way.

00:23:14.000 Yeah, I like to say that, you know, the songs, I was talking about, I forget what I was talking about this, but I like songs that allow you to take ownership of them and make them personal to you.

00:23:28.000 Does that make sense?

00:23:29.000 Yeah.

00:23:29.000 And I like listening, and I think that's...

00:23:32.000 Probably what we all like about songs eventually is our ability to relate to them.

00:23:41.000 I can write a song and I can play a song on a stage, but it doesn't really mean anything until somebody listens to it.

00:23:52.000 My perception of what that song is about in relation to them comes back at us on a stage or it lives in the world that way.

00:24:01.000 And that's so cool to me.

00:24:02.000 That's the thing that makes a song complete.

00:24:05.000 I don't feel like they're even done until somebody listens to it and attaches to it.

00:24:11.000 That's the thing that I love so much about songs.

00:24:16.000 Yeah, and everybody's thing is different too, right?

00:24:19.000 It's like you can have two songs that are the exact same song, but they're sung by different people and they have a completely different feeling.

00:24:26.000 Certain covers, you listen to certain covers, you're just like, whoa!

00:24:31.000 It just hits you in a totally different way.

00:24:33.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:24:35.000 And then the other side of that is two different people can listen to the same version of a song and it means totally different things to them.

00:24:42.000 Yeah.

00:24:43.000 Because they attach the pieces of their life to it in a way that is unique to them.

00:24:48.000 And that's the coolest thing in the world.

00:24:51.000 Yeah, it's interactive in some sort of a weird way, right?

00:24:53.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:24:54.000 And if it's not, nothing exists.

00:24:57.000 What I mean by, like, sometimes people's music represents sort of the torment that's going on in their own personal...

00:25:02.000 What I was thinking specifically of was Amy Winehouse.

00:25:05.000 Like, I was a big Amy Winehouse fan, and there's something about that.

00:25:08.000 She was great. 0.98

00:25:08.000 Fucking phenomenal. 0.98

00:25:09.000 There's something about that rehab song, because she put that rehab song out when everyone knew she was a mess. 1.00

00:25:16.000 Right.

00:25:16.000 And then she still, you know, they tried them, She made it sound happy.

00:25:23.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:25:23.000 She's like, fuck it, I'm riding this thing right into the beach. 0.99

00:25:26.000 Right. 1.00

00:25:26.000 I'm not stopping for the rocks. 1.00

00:25:28.000 Right.

00:25:28.000 I'm hitting the throttle.

00:25:29.000 We're going to see where this goes.

00:25:30.000 It was tragic, but it produced some phenomenal music, no doubt.

00:25:35.000 Yeah, there was something to it.

00:25:36.000 There was almost a fatalistic acceptance of our own fate or something.

00:25:43.000 Well, and we can listen to it in that perspective now that she's not with us anymore.

00:25:49.000 But, you know, at the time, it was a lot of teenage angst.

00:25:53.000 Yeah.

00:25:53.000 Almost celebratory.

00:25:54.000 Yeah.

00:25:55.000 It felt celebratory at the time.

00:25:57.000 On the other side of the tragedy of it, it has a little more weight, I think.

00:26:03.000 Yeah.

00:26:04.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:26:05.000 But, I mean, man, if you stop and think about how many tortured souls put out unbelievable music...

00:26:11.000 I think it's, you know, to some degree, some of the greats, you know, it's almost like a requirement that they are a little bit out there.

00:26:19.000 Yeah.

00:26:20.000 You know, and so, which is, it's a horrible thing for them, but it's a beautiful thing for the rest of us who get to listen to it.

00:26:30.000 Yeah, right.

00:26:31.000 Man, it's just the, just to be an artist in any form, right, requires all this vulnerability and just trying to Trying to find whatever it is when you're trying to create something.

00:26:45.000 Where is that coming from?

00:26:46.000 The ether, the muse.

00:26:48.000 It's trying to just find that thing.

00:26:50.000 And then when you're dealing with your own personal demons, especially the deep drug demons, seem to produce some of the most insane music ever.

00:26:58.000 You know, you think of Hendrix and Kurt Cobain.

00:27:02.000 Absolutely.

00:27:02.000 And you keep going down that list forever, really.

00:27:05.000 Yeah, and I have a songwriter friend who is convinced that you can't really produce something that is, you know, really noteworthy unless you have some kind of an addiction issue.

00:27:18.000 Really?

00:27:21.000 I don't know if that's true, but you're saying that very thing.

00:27:24.000 You look back at history of rock and roll and music in general, there's a lot of heavy drugs and a lot of getting out there on the edge that has in fact produced some of the greatest music that we've ever heard.

00:27:39.000 You also can hear it in the music.

00:27:42.000 Stevie Ray Vaughan's a great example.

00:27:44.000 You hear the getting out there on the edge in the music.

00:27:48.000 Absolutely.

00:27:49.000 You hear it with every ounce of everything in it.

00:27:52.000 It's like there's no safety net in that kind of music.

00:27:55.000 It's just all raw.

00:27:58.000 Yep.

00:27:59.000 Absolutely.

00:28:00.000 You've got a crazy life, man.

00:28:01.000 It's a crazy way to make a living.

00:28:03.000 It is a crazy way to make a living.

00:28:04.000 You must be super happy.

00:28:05.000 What?

00:28:06.000 I don't have any of those issues.

00:28:07.000 I don't know what you're talking about.

00:28:08.000 But you don't have to have any of those issues.

00:28:10.000 I don't think you have to have an addiction issue to be great.

00:28:13.000 I just think you just have to pursue it.

00:28:15.000 Yeah.

00:28:15.000 You know?

00:28:16.000 Well, maybe the addiction.

00:28:17.000 I mean, there can be healthy addictions.

00:28:21.000 That's true.

00:28:22.000 That's a good way to look at it.

00:28:23.000 Most people that I meet that are successful in one way or another, they have at the very least kind of obsessive tendencies about something.

00:28:33.000 Right.

00:28:34.000 And generally it's some part of the work.

00:28:37.000 And focus.

00:28:40.000 I see a lot of focus.

00:28:42.000 Like, this kind of super focused thing that when you see certain people, you're like, oh, that's why he can do that.

00:28:49.000 Yeah.

00:28:50.000 Or she can do that.

00:28:52.000 They have this ability to focus.

00:28:54.000 Yeah, there's a...

00:28:55.000 I've always been amazed, too, when someone can take an instrument and make that instrument sound very specific to them.

00:29:03.000 Like, Gary Clark Jr. is another good example of that.

00:29:05.000 Like...

00:29:07.000 See if you can find that video that I put up on my Instagram way back when with Honey Honey.

00:29:12.000 Honey Honey and Gary Clark Jr. performed this really tiny place in downtown LA about maybe a year ago. 0.70

00:29:20.000 And they did a midnight set on like a Wednesday night or some shit.

00:29:24.000 And Gary Clark is up there doing the Allman Brothers Midnight Rider. 0.66

00:29:30.000 Like, listen to this.

00:29:30.000 And it's...

00:29:41.000 That's him.

00:29:42.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:29:42.000 That sound, that's him.

00:30:20.000 I mean, come on.

00:30:22.000 He's mean, man.

00:30:23.000 That's a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

00:30:25.000 Like, that is him.

00:30:27.000 Well, that is him, but it's also everybody that's before him.

00:30:31.000 Oh, yeah.

00:30:32.000 And he's probably the one guy that we have in modern times that really can carry that torch for the blues and all those great guitar players that we don't have a lot of them left.

00:30:50.000 I mean, he can do that, and that's real kind of, you know, B.B. King approach, you know, just playing some real straight-in-line stuff.

00:30:59.000 But then he can do Hendrix and be crazy and psychedelic, too.

00:31:03.000 He can do any of that.

00:31:04.000 Yeah.

00:31:05.000 And that's, you know, that guy shines when you step on a stage with him.

00:31:09.000 You know, it's...

00:31:10.000 We played...

00:31:12.000 He and I and Bonnie Raitt played a B.B. King tribute on the Grammys a few years back, and...

00:31:17.000 That was intimidating.

00:31:20.000 Bonnie Raitt's excellent in her own way. 0.75

00:31:23.000 She has that thing, just like he has, where it's just like those people are special people.

00:31:32.000 Yeah, I agree.

00:31:35.000 And there's something about them, like what Hunter was saying, that they're fuel.

00:31:40.000 Like I saw that and I ran home and I wrote.

00:31:42.000 I wrote for like three hours.

00:31:44.000 Yeah.

00:31:44.000 So I just was pumped up.

00:31:45.000 I just felt like I'd seen something.

00:31:48.000 You know, like I just touched some new dimension.

00:31:53.000 You listen to a lot of Freddie King?

00:31:55.000 You ever listen to a lot of Freddie King?

00:31:56.000 No.

00:31:56.000 Oh, no, man.

00:31:57.000 I'm going to write this down, too.

00:31:59.000 I'm going to start writing down.

00:32:00.000 You've got to get on Freddie King.

00:32:01.000 Freddie King. 1.00

00:32:02.000 What kind of shit is he? 1.00

00:32:03.000 He's blues. 1.00

00:32:04.000 Yeah?

00:32:04.000 Yeah.

00:32:05.000 He's not with us anymore, but...

00:32:07.000 Oh.

00:32:08.000 You know, there's B.B. King, Albert King, and Freddie King.

00:32:11.000 I've never heard of Freddie.

00:32:12.000 Oh.

00:32:12.000 Well, you've probably seen that show, Eastbound and Down.

00:32:16.000 Yeah.

00:32:16.000 You know, the theme song at the front of that?

00:32:18.000 Yeah.

00:32:18.000 That's Freddie King.

00:32:19.000 Oh.

00:32:20.000 Okay, but I love Freddie King.

00:32:23.000 Yeah, there's a wealth of fuel if you want some in Freddie King.

00:32:30.000 That's a pretty standard staple of listening for me.

00:32:37.000 If I want to turn something on and let it make me feel right, Freddie King.

00:32:42.000 Freddie King.

00:32:42.000 I got a John Lee Hooker problem.

00:32:44.000 When I start thinking about blues, I just listen to John Lee Hooker.

00:32:47.000 I have so much John Lee Hooker on my phone, I have no room for other people.

00:32:51.000 You've got to get some Freddie King in there.

00:32:53.000 All right, I'll get some Freddie King in there, but when I'm tired and I don't feel like working out, I put Boom Boom Boom on.

00:32:59.000 All right.

00:32:59.000 And woo!

00:33:00.000 Here we go.

00:33:01.000 We're off to the races.

00:33:03.000 It's just something about those types of songs, that deep blues.

00:33:09.000 It's just got this extra special soul to it.

00:33:15.000 You're sort of immersed in the feeling of those people.

00:33:19.000 Yeah, it's heavy-duty stuff, man.

00:33:22.000 Music is heavy-duty stuff, man.

00:33:25.000 How fortunate do you feel?

00:33:27.000 Oh, I'm the luckiest man in the world.

00:33:29.000 I say that all the time.

00:33:30.000 And it's true. 0.56

00:33:31.000 I am absolutely the luckiest dude in the world.

00:33:34.000 I would imagine you feel that way.

00:33:35.000 Yeah, I mean, you found your thing.

00:33:37.000 No, it's actually true.

00:33:38.000 I think I'm the luckiest guy in the world, but I'll let you slide.

00:33:40.000 All right.

00:33:41.000 Because you're here.

00:33:42.000 Well, I'm top five.

00:33:43.000 I'm top five.

00:33:44.000 I think we're all the luckiest person in the world if you actually found your thing that you like to do.

00:33:49.000 Yeah.

00:33:50.000 And you work, but you don't really work work.

00:33:53.000 Well, yeah.

00:33:54.000 I mean, listen, I do a lot.

00:33:55.000 We do a lot.

00:33:56.000 It's work.

00:33:57.000 It's work in the sense of it's time-consuming.

00:34:00.000 Yes.

00:34:00.000 It requires effort and focus.

00:34:02.000 Yes.

00:34:02.000 But listen, there's nothing else I would rather do for a living, and I'm grateful and thankful every day for it because I love it.

00:34:13.000 Well, you could tell.

00:34:14.000 I mean, it really comes out in your music.

00:34:15.000 You really could tell.

00:34:16.000 It's pure.

00:34:18.000 Do you listen to any classical?

00:34:20.000 Any classical music?

00:34:21.000 Yeah.

00:34:22.000 You know, when I was a kid, I used to listen to more classical music than I do now.

00:34:26.000 But, you know, I enjoy occasionally going to the symphony, you know, but I haven't gone in years.

00:34:31.000 But I do like that music.

00:34:34.000 It moves me in a different kind of way than listening to Freddie King would.

00:34:38.000 All right, here's the big question.

00:34:41.000 Jazz.

00:34:42.000 I do like jazz music.

00:34:43.000 Not necessarily like super experimental jazz music that gets way, way out there, like acid jazz.

00:34:50.000 So like the Coltrane, like classic stuff?

00:34:53.000 Well, I just, yeah.

00:34:54.000 And once again, I am not a...

00:34:56.000 In no way am I an authority on jazz, but if it's on, I will enjoy it.

00:35:01.000 Because I enjoy, as a musician, I enjoy, just like I enjoy great blues players, there's so many great musicians in jazz.

00:35:07.000 Like I had an opportunity...

00:35:09.000 To write some songs.

00:35:10.000 Dan Wilson called me up one time to go write some songs with the Preservation Hall Jazz Band.

00:35:18.000 And so we wrote some songs.

00:35:21.000 I knew nothing about New Orleans jazz whatsoever, but I went down to New Orleans and I participated in this and wrote these songs that now live in the jazz world.

00:35:31.000 So that really is thrilling to me to get to that thing I was telling you about where I get to go hop into somebody else's space and see if I'm helpful.

00:35:42.000 That's cool to me, you know.

00:35:43.000 So now I have, you know, I have that.

00:35:47.000 It feels like, to me, like that's a feather in my cap.

00:35:50.000 I got to go participate with those guys, and they're so great, every one of them.

00:35:53.000 I have some friends that love that sort of collaboration thing, too, whether it's in music.

00:35:57.000 I have a good buddy of mine who writes a lot, my friend Tony Hinchcliffe, writes a lot for people for roasts, and he does punch-up on shows and things along those lines, but he relishes that opportunity.

00:36:08.000 He likes collaborating, likes helping people out on stuff.

00:36:11.000 Yeah.

00:36:12.000 Well, it just gives you the opportunity to flex your mind in a way that maybe you wouldn't in your own space, you know?

00:36:19.000 Right.

00:36:20.000 What do you do when you're not doing music?

00:36:22.000 That's all I do, pretty much.

00:36:24.000 Really?

00:36:24.000 Yeah.

00:36:25.000 I play music and I, you know, I like to, I have things I like to do.

00:36:31.000 You know, I like to fish.

00:36:33.000 Me too.

00:36:33.000 But I don't get to do that a whole lot.

00:36:35.000 Bass fish?

00:36:36.000 What do you do?

00:36:37.000 I grew up on a trout stream.

00:36:38.000 Oh, yeah?

00:36:39.000 Where?

00:36:39.000 I'm not a fly fisherman in Kentucky, but I'm not a fly fisherman.

00:36:43.000 Spinning tackle?

00:36:44.000 Yeah, just spinning tackle.

00:36:45.000 I used to use a little ultralight spinning rig.

00:36:48.000 My summers were spent as a kid.

00:36:49.000 I'd be in the creek at 530, you know?

00:36:52.000 My friend Steve Rinell was just talking to a famous writer recently in his last podcast.

00:36:56.000 I don't remember the man's name, but he's famous in the fishing writing world.

00:37:00.000 And he's a fly fisherman.

00:37:03.000 And he's like, he had a really interesting question.

00:37:05.000 He said, why is so much great literature attached to fly fishing, but not to spin tackle?

00:37:13.000 It's true.

00:37:14.000 That's a good question.

00:37:15.000 And I think that's the...

00:37:18.000 I don't know.

00:37:20.000 It's kind of like using spin tackles like this workman.

00:37:25.000 It's like a blue-collar way of doing it.

00:37:28.000 That's my perception of it.

00:37:30.000 And then people who are fly fishermen.

00:37:32.000 And I've seen these guys in action use a fly rod.

00:37:35.000 There's an art to it.

00:37:36.000 But there's an art to...

00:37:39.000 I'm using all of it, but the guys who are fly fishermen take a lot more pride in the art of it.

00:37:46.000 Yeah.

00:37:47.000 And please forgive me, fishermen out there, if I'm misrepresenting anybody who likes to do either of these things.

00:37:55.000 But my perception of it is...

00:38:00.000 Guys with a spinner reel, I just want to catch the fish.

00:38:04.000 If it means I'm flipping it out there, if it means I'm tossing it, if it means I'm jig fishing with it, it doesn't matter.

00:38:11.000 I want to figure out the way to catch the fish.

00:38:14.000 The fly fishermen, they like the process.

00:38:16.000 Yeah, I started out with a spinning rod.

00:38:22.000 I actually started out with a Zebco push-button spin cast jammies.

00:38:27.000 And then I went to bait casting reel for bass.

00:38:34.000 And then when I got into trout fishing, I eventually moved on to fly fishing and learned how to tie some flies.

00:38:39.000 So you're serious about it, so I'm still here talking about your...

00:38:42.000 No.

00:38:42.000 That's your hobby.

00:38:43.000 It's been a long time.

00:38:44.000 Now when I fish, I fish maybe once a year like on vacation.

00:38:49.000 Yeah.

00:38:49.000 That's basically what happens for me is I charter a guy on a boat somewhere to go.

00:38:56.000 Yeah.

00:38:56.000 It's fun.

00:38:56.000 Which is easy.

00:38:57.000 It's fun.

00:38:57.000 Yeah.

00:38:58.000 I've done it in Hawaii, in Mexico, and the great thing is, say, if you're staying at a resort, you could rent a boat, they'll take you out, you catch a tuna or something like that, and then you cook it and eat it for lunch, and it's amazing.

00:39:09.000 Yeah, no, that's great.

00:39:10.000 Yeah.

00:39:10.000 That's about the extent of my fishing these days.

00:39:12.000 Yeah.

00:39:13.000 My other outdoor activities have sort of overwhelmed my fishing time.

00:39:16.000 But there's something about the people that get into fly fishing that it's not just fishing.

00:39:22.000 One of the weird things about fly fishing is a lot of them let the fish go.

00:39:26.000 There's a lot of catch and release going on with fly fishing.

00:39:29.000 Yeah, and I like that too.

00:39:31.000 I used to let a lot of them go.

00:39:33.000 I get that, but I'm a little...

00:39:36.000 I'm a little tormented on that. 1.00

00:39:38.000 You're putting a fucking hook through something's head and you're gonna let it go. 0.99

00:39:41.000 Like, how about just not doing that if you really love the fish? 0.99

00:39:45.000 How about just fish with no hook at all and they bite it, you know, you know you would have had them.

00:39:50.000 That's probably fair.

00:39:51.000 Yeah, that's probably the way to go.

00:39:52.000 It's weird that we, it's this weird thing that we have in our head where we're trying to activate those reward systems that were there in place in order to keep ourselves fed.

00:40:05.000 Right?

00:40:05.000 There's a thing that happens when you catch a fish.

00:40:08.000 Like I've seen with my little kids, I've taken my daughter's fishing, and when they catch a fish, they have this look on their face like, oh, oh, I got it, I got it, I got it!

00:40:18.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:40:18.000 It's super exciting when they pull it out of the boat, and then the fact that they're going to get to eat it later, there's some weird primal DNA thing that gets activated when you catch something.

00:40:29.000 And I think that's what these fly fishermen that are letting the fish go are trying to do.

00:40:33.000 They're just little junkies for that feeling, that DNA activation, that reward system thing.

00:40:41.000 And obviously it's difficult, and obviously there's a tremendous amount of skill and finesse involved in fly casting and roll casting and trying to place this...

00:40:51.000 Fly right in this little pool and drag it with the current and get that nasty trout to bite onto it. 1.00

00:40:57.000 But you also want to own it.

00:41:00.000 You want to have him and let him go.

00:41:02.000 You don't want to say, I could have had you but there's no hook on that.

00:41:05.000 The dark side of fly fishing.

00:41:06.000 Yeah.

00:41:06.000 You want to know you got it.

00:41:08.000 You don't want to know he bit.

00:41:09.000 You want to know you got it.

00:41:10.000 So no one goes fly fishing with no hook.

00:41:13.000 They go with a barbless hook, and they'll catch it, and then they'll let it go.

00:41:17.000 And they'll say, that's fine.

00:41:17.000 It's a barbless hook.

00:41:18.000 Like, okay. 1.00

00:41:19.000 How about I put a barbless hook through your fucking face? 1.00

00:41:22.000 That shit ain't good. 1.00

00:41:24.000 That's not good. 1.00

00:41:25.000 You're trying to ruin fishing for all catch-and-release fishermen.

00:41:28.000 I am not.

00:41:29.000 And I support it 100%, and I've done it. 0.96

00:41:31.000 I'm a hypocrite in that regard.

00:41:33.000 I have done some catch and release.

00:41:35.000 But I feel like there is a weirdness to it that it's this why.

00:41:42.000 You're not eating it.

00:41:43.000 You can't just look at them?

00:41:46.000 No.

00:41:47.000 You've got to catch them.

00:41:48.000 You've got to catch them and have them and then let them go.

00:41:51.000 But how are you going to look at them if you don't catch them?

00:41:54.000 Look at them in the water.

00:41:54.000 Here's the thing.

00:41:56.000 A good percentage, I don't know what the number is, especially when you're like salmon fishing and you're using like heavy tackle, a good percentage if you're catching and releasing that those fish are never going to make it.

00:42:05.000 Catch them with a big lure, barbed hooks, you get them deep in the throat, you pull them out, their gills are bleeding.

00:42:11.000 Well, that's different.

00:42:12.000 I mean, that's a scenario that you don't like.

00:42:16.000 Yeah.

00:42:16.000 In that sense, most fishermen, I think, would know that you can't turn that fish back loose.

00:42:21.000 But you have to sometimes.

00:42:23.000 Well, you do have to sometimes.

00:42:24.000 Yeah.

00:42:24.000 You have to turn them loose because it's the law.

00:42:26.000 It's the regulations.

00:42:27.000 And you turn it loose and you watch it swim away. 1.00

00:42:29.000 You're like, this motherfucker's got about a 40% chance. 1.00

00:42:32.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:42:33.000 No, and everybody hates that.

00:42:34.000 Yeah, it's the worst.

00:42:36.000 But they still want that feeling.

00:42:38.000 The catching the fish thing is a weird feeling.

00:42:40.000 Apparently, it's that way with butterfly catchers, too, because human beings used to be insectivores.

00:42:47.000 Really?

00:42:48.000 Yeah, I was listening to this lecture once by Terence McKenna, and he was talking about that.

00:42:53.000 Terence Kent McKenna, the great psychedelic author and lecturer, he was talking about how he was really into butterfly catching at one point in time.

00:43:02.000 And the odd thing is that it activates this very primal reward system in your body the same way catching a fish would.

00:43:11.000 Because human beings used to be insectivores.

00:43:13.000 We used to eat a lot of insects.

00:43:15.000 So when you do find some rare butterfly that you've been after for months and months, and you have the opportunity to drop the net on it.

00:43:23.000 Get so excited about him.

00:43:25.000 That's a weird sort of trophy hunting, butterfly hunting too.

00:43:28.000 Because you're allowed to do that. 1.00

00:43:30.000 You can take that little fucker, dry him out and put him on a wall somewhere and nobody thinks you're a barbarian. 1.00

00:43:35.000 Like, people are real racist when it comes to what animals are allowed to be dead. 1.00

00:43:40.000 You know what I mean?

00:43:42.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:43:43.000 Pigs and cows are screwed. 1.00

00:43:45.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:43:46.000 Yeah, pigs and cows.

00:43:48.000 But more so bugs, you know?

00:43:51.000 Yeah.

00:43:51.000 Oh, no, yeah.

00:43:52.000 Nobody likes bugs.

00:43:53.000 Butterflies, sort of.

00:43:54.000 I went to an ashram once, and this lady who was running the ashram had a can of Raid, and she was talking to me about the ant problem that they have.

00:44:03.000 And I was like, hold up.

00:44:04.000 So you spray these ants with poison?

00:44:08.000 And she's like, yeah.

00:44:10.000 And I go, so you kill the ants.

00:44:11.000 I go, isn't that contrary to what you're teaching?

00:44:14.000 She's like, sometimes there's just things you have to do because otherwise the ants will get in our food.

00:44:18.000 And I'm like, okay.

00:44:20.000 I was like, huh.

00:44:22.000 This is odd.

00:44:24.000 You're in an odd crossroads here, lady. 0.91

00:44:26.000 You're a Buddhist living in an ashram with a can of poison that you use for living beings that you don't like being around you. 1.00

00:44:36.000 I have nothing. 0.98

00:44:37.000 It's fine.

00:44:38.000 But if she had cats that she was killing with a baseball bat, everybody would be mad. 1.00

00:44:43.000 No, she'd be in jail. 0.59

00:44:43.000 Yeah. 0.59

00:44:44.000 Weird, right?

00:44:45.000 Yeah.

00:44:46.000 We have weird rules.

00:44:47.000 Sorry to take you down this world.

00:44:48.000 No, no.

00:44:49.000 This is very interesting to me.

00:44:51.000 I didn't know that human beings used to be insectivores.

00:44:53.000 Yeah, apparently.

00:44:54.000 Learn something new every day.

00:44:55.000 Well, that's one of the things that they talk about in terms of the future of protein, that insects provide very complex, complete proteins, and they can provide it to large amounts of people fairly inexpensively.

00:45:09.000 And so cricket protein is very popular today.

00:45:12.000 I don't know if you know this.

00:45:13.000 No.

00:45:13.000 A lot of people eat cricket protein.

00:45:15.000 Yeah, they have cricket bars and shit. 1.00

00:45:17.000 Cricket bars? 0.99

00:45:18.000 Yeah, they make bars out of crickets.

00:45:21.000 Yeah, cricket protein bars.

00:45:23.000 And apparently they taste pretty good.

00:45:24.000 Well, you know, my daughter ate, you know, we bought like on vacation somewhere, like this novelty sack of like barbecue crickets or something.

00:45:32.000 Yeah.

00:45:32.000 Because the kids wanted to try them.

00:45:33.000 Of course, my son was like, after he actually got it out of the package, he was like, I don't know about that.

00:45:37.000 My daughter was like, I'll try it.

00:45:38.000 And she ate it.

00:45:39.000 And then she was like, it's pretty good.

00:45:41.000 They're not bad.

00:45:42.000 What is this?

00:45:43.000 A cricket milkshake.

00:45:44.000 Hey! 0.99

00:45:47.000 Yeah, is that pre-made?

00:45:49.000 There's the cricket bars.

00:45:50.000 I think it would look more palatable if they didn't have a picture of a cricket crawling out of it. 1.00

00:45:54.000 Yeah, hide that shit. 1.00

00:45:56.000 So there's the cricket protein powder. 1.00

00:45:59.000 They cook the cricket, grind those little fuckers up, and turn it into protein powder. 1.00

00:46:03.000 And it apparently has a complete amino acid profile. 0.99

00:46:06.000 It's easy to digest.

00:46:08.000 And it doesn't make people feel bad.

00:46:10.000 Like, look at that.

00:46:10.000 Look at the grams of protein per 100 gallons of water, how much you can get.

00:46:17.000 For a cow, you only get 6 grams of protein for 100 gallons of water.

00:46:23.000 But for crickets, you get 71 grams of protein for the same amount of water.

00:46:27.000 So it's more than 10 times the amount of protein.

00:46:31.000 And I don't think it has near the impact on the environment.

00:46:35.000 In terms of raising them, they don't have a lot of the waste products and the issues that cows have.

00:46:42.000 Methane.

00:46:45.000 Smells.

00:46:45.000 This is amazing.

00:46:47.000 Sorry, dude.

00:46:48.000 Let's go back to music.

00:46:48.000 No, it's all good.

00:46:50.000 I'm sitting here thinking about eating crickets.

00:46:51.000 I'm thinking about switching.

00:46:53.000 I've had crickets before, man.

00:46:54.000 I was in Mexico, and they cooked them and left them in the room.

00:46:59.000 We stayed at a hotel.

00:47:00.000 Like it was a little snack.

00:47:01.000 Yeah, like a little snack thing.

00:47:03.000 They were almost like a soy sauce-based or some sort of a salt-based.

00:47:10.000 Like they're chips or something.

00:47:11.000 Yeah, and they were fried.

00:47:13.000 And you just crunch them.

00:47:14.000 And I was like, okay, these are actually pretty good.

00:47:18.000 They're essentially related.

00:47:20.000 A lot of bugs are related to shellfish.

00:47:23.000 Whereas we found on Fear Factor that if you're allergic to shrimp, you're also allergic to roaches.

00:47:30.000 Really?

00:47:30.000 Yeah, we found that out because we made a dude eat roaches.

00:47:33.000 And he started having an allergic reaction.

00:47:36.000 They had to get him a shot of adrenaline and take him to the hospital.

00:47:40.000 That's awful.

00:47:40.000 Yeah.

00:47:41.000 That was a bad day.

00:47:42.000 Yeah, you know, I guess your throat closes up on you and you start, you know, a lot of inflammation.

00:47:46.000 You start wheezing.

00:47:47.000 Yeah, it's not fun.

00:47:48.000 Yeah.

00:47:49.000 But crickets, good.

00:47:51.000 And high in protein.

00:47:53.000 You never eat anything weird?

00:47:55.000 Are you like a straight-laced eater?

00:47:56.000 I'm pretty, yeah, I'm pretty straight.

00:47:58.000 Wild game?

00:48:00.000 My dad was a bird hunter and a rabbit hunter growing up, but I never loved it.

00:48:06.000 No?

00:48:06.000 No.

00:48:07.000 It's all about how it's cooked, really, right?

00:48:09.000 Yeah, and I don't know if we ever got that down at my house.

00:48:11.000 Yeah, it's tricky.

00:48:13.000 Like, I think if you're around a real wild game chef, like there's a guy named Hank Shaw who's been on this podcast before who's a hunter who's also like a real extraordinary chef, and he makes these amazing dishes with wild game.

00:48:25.000 And he's one of those guys that's like, you know, you think it's bad because you haven't cooked it right.

00:48:30.000 Let me cook it.

00:48:31.000 Yeah, I think there's a lost art to some of it, or a lesser known art, maybe.

00:48:36.000 Where are you living right now, man?

00:48:37.000 I live south of Nashville, Tennessee.

00:48:39.000 So when you flew into hell today, and you see, like, literally, it's on fire.

00:48:43.000 For people listening, at this point in time, this is one of the worst fires in the history of Los Angeles.

00:48:48.000 It's pretty scary. 0.82

00:48:49.000 Yeah, because it's what's called a dry hurricane, meaning there's hurricane-force winds, but there's no rain, and the fires are going fucking crazy.

00:48:57.000 50,000 acres down in a day is nothing right now.

00:49:01.000 Yeah, we've been here a few days and we got in two or three days ago and we've been doing some other things, TV things, whatever, but waking up to that on the news is not a fun thing to watch and I'm so heartbroken for everybody losing their homes and it's a pretty tragic,

00:49:22.000 awful thing to have to watch.

00:49:23.000 Yeah, it certainly is.

00:49:24.000 You know, it's the side effect of living in a place that doesn't have any weather, you know?

00:49:28.000 There you go.

00:49:29.000 Everything dries out.

00:49:30.000 It so rarely rains here, you know, and when you get, like, these crazy winds, the Santa Ana winds that happen every year, just, this is extraordinary, the winds here, and just perfect time for fires, obviously.

00:49:41.000 So is somebody kicking these things up, or what's the deal, really?

00:49:44.000 No one knows.

00:49:45.000 It could be arson.

00:49:46.000 It could be...

00:49:47.000 It feels like that.

00:49:48.000 It could be. 1.00

00:49:49.000 Look, there's some sick fucks out there. 1.00

00:49:51.000 They know that the wind is a bad thing for fire, and then all of a sudden the fire shows up. 1.00

00:49:55.000 It's entirely possible that out of 20 million people, there's one or two people that are out of their fucking mind. 0.99

00:50:01.000 Yeah, that's way out there. 0.99

00:50:02.000 Is that what you were thinking?

00:50:03.000 I don't know.

00:50:04.000 I just watch it, and I'm just like...

00:50:05.000 I mean, how does the fire spontaneously start?

00:50:08.000 You know, that...

00:50:10.000 Yeah.

00:50:10.000 I don't know.

00:50:12.000 It just seems...

00:50:12.000 Well, you're probably right.

00:50:14.000 I mean, that's one of the suspicions, is that it's arson-related.

00:50:17.000 There's several fires.

00:50:19.000 That's what I'm saying.

00:50:19.000 There's so many going at this point.

00:50:21.000 I'm just like, is somebody running around, like, thinking...

00:50:24.000 I don't know.

00:50:25.000 Well, that's the thing.

00:50:26.000 Yeah, they happen simultaneously.

00:50:28.000 Yeah.

00:50:29.000 All during the same crazy conditions and they happen like way far apart from each other So you talk to firefighters about it and they're like there's a lot of times We don't know but there's a lot of times some serious suspicions.

00:50:38.000 Yeah, you know, it's just It's unfortunate you would have to think about that.

00:50:43.000 I mean think about all these human beings and there's one or two or however whatever the number is that are so tortured And so in pain and so fucked up, the wires are so crossed. 0.79

00:50:55.000 Yeah, I don't get it. 0.97

00:50:55.000 Yeah. 0.97

00:50:56.000 I don't get it.

00:50:57.000 Of course.

00:50:58.000 And I hope that's not the case.

00:50:59.000 But I watched all these guys on the news, you know, up on the roofs trying to save their property or, you know, firefighters putting themselves in harm's way or guys flying helicopters dumping water in zero visibility conditions.

00:51:12.000 And it's just like, man, it's just, it's awful.

00:51:16.000 It is awful.

00:51:17.000 You know, around this time of year, you really appreciate firefighters.

00:51:21.000 Absolutely.

00:51:22.000 Yeah.

00:51:22.000 And I think a lot of people take them for granted most of the time, until you need them.

00:51:27.000 They're superheroes that only get credit when they do some shit. 0.99

00:51:30.000 Right. 0.99

00:51:31.000 And when they do do some shit, you realize, like, oh, without them... 0.99

00:51:35.000 Like, I talked to a firefighter once, it freaked me the fuck out. 0.99

00:51:38.000 He was saying, it's just a matter of time to one day...

00:51:42.000 With the right winds, there's a fire that burns all the way to the ocean, just goes right through L.A., and there's nothing we can do about it.

00:51:48.000 And I was like, what?

00:51:50.000 And he's like, it's a matter of time.

00:51:51.000 He goes, everybody thinks it.

00:51:53.000 It's just a matter of catching the right fire.

00:51:55.000 And then you realize today, like, oh, he's right.

00:51:58.000 Oh, yeah.

00:51:59.000 Bel Air's on fire.

00:52:00.000 Yeah.

00:52:00.000 Where all the rich people live.

00:52:01.000 That's on fire.

00:52:03.000 Yeah.

00:52:03.000 No, it's, like I said, it's like live on the news.

00:52:08.000 We were watching it in the hotel room, you know.

00:52:10.000 It's just...

00:52:12.000 Pretty hardcore.

00:52:13.000 Yeah.

00:52:13.000 I mean, we changed our route to get over here today just because there's road closures and things like that.

00:52:19.000 Did it take you more time?

00:52:20.000 I think we gave ourselves like an hour and 20 minutes, hour and a half to get over here today.

00:52:25.000 What else you got going on right now?

00:52:28.000 We did a few TV things, and we're kind of winding down for the year, and then we'll kick back up.

00:52:34.000 In January, we got the Grammys in January, I guess, and then kind of slowly get back into it.

00:52:40.000 But my wife's pregnant with twins, so we're trying to be...

00:52:43.000 Oh, wow.

00:52:43.000 Congratulations.

00:52:44.000 Thank you.

00:52:46.000 And she tours and sings with me pretty much all the time, so we're trying to figure out the new reality of that.

00:52:53.000 We have two kids out with us, but now we're going to four, so it's...

00:52:57.000 How old are your kids?

00:52:59.000 They're eight and seven.

00:53:00.000 So do you bring a tutor on the road with you?

00:53:01.000 How do you do that?

00:53:02.000 My mother-in-law is a retired second grade school teacher.

00:53:05.000 Convenient.

00:53:06.000 Yeah.

00:53:07.000 So we homeschool our children on the road.

00:53:09.000 But when they study the Boston Tea Party, they get to go look at all the stuff in Boston.

00:53:14.000 Oh, wow.

00:53:15.000 It's a different kind of education, but things like that kind of live and breathe for them a little bit more than what I got growing up.

00:53:24.000 And hopefully someday they'll appreciate that.

00:53:26.000 Oh, I'm sure they will.

00:53:27.000 I mean, it's got to be interesting to them too to see their dad go from being a singer-songwriter to all of a sudden being a celebrity singer.

00:53:38.000 Have they realized that?

00:53:39.000 I don't know.

00:53:41.000 I think to them, they're young enough that it just seems like, yeah, mom and dad have to go sing a show.

00:53:48.000 It's just what they do.

00:53:50.000 When are your mom and dad going to go sing?

00:53:53.000 My mom makes houses. 0.99

00:53:55.000 She doesn't sing.

00:53:57.000 They don't have real...

00:53:59.000 What's the...

00:54:03.000 They don't have anything else to compare it to.

00:54:05.000 Right.

00:54:05.000 Point of reference.

00:54:06.000 Yeah, point of reference is what I was looking for.

00:54:08.000 So that's just kind of what life is to them.

00:54:11.000 When you tour, how long do you go?

00:54:13.000 How much of a stretch?

00:54:14.000 Well, we very rarely try to...

00:54:16.000 I mean, we try to be weekend warriors as much as we can and do Thursday, Friday, Saturday...

00:54:24.000 We're good to go.

00:54:39.000 I love to play shows.

00:54:40.000 There's a limit on how many I can sing in a week.

00:54:43.000 Three's the limit.

00:54:44.000 So we stick with that and try to make that have as much kind of home time.

00:54:50.000 So all the guys in the band, the crew, everybody's got kids and families and things.

00:54:55.000 It's a hard way to make a living if you're always gone.

00:55:00.000 Like months and months and months gone.

00:55:03.000 That's the rock and roll way of doing things a lot.

00:55:06.000 Yeah.

00:55:06.000 I know Sturgill had to do that like that for a while.

00:55:09.000 He didn't have to.

00:55:10.000 He chose to.

00:55:10.000 Chose to.

00:55:11.000 Yeah.

00:55:12.000 I had to convince him of that.

00:55:14.000 You had to convince him of that, that he didn't have to?

00:55:16.000 Yeah.

00:55:17.000 Only he convinces himself of anything.

00:55:19.000 I'm not going to say that I convinced him.

00:55:20.000 I know what you're saying, but you influenced him.

00:55:22.000 Well, I'm not even going to say I influenced him, but I would tell him.

00:55:25.000 Suggested.

00:55:26.000 I would tell him.

00:55:27.000 Hey, man, you don't have to.

00:55:28.000 Why are you doing this?

00:55:29.000 Oh, okay.

00:55:29.000 So he felt like what...

00:55:31.000 I think all his years of working regular jobs, you know, working on the railroad and doing all the shit that he had to do, when success came, he was like, Jesus Christ, I've got to keep this fire going. 0.83

00:55:41.000 Oh, absolutely. 0.89

00:55:41.000 Well, and... 0.89

00:55:42.000 Get the kindling, you know, chop wood.

00:55:46.000 Absolutely.

00:55:46.000 You have this moment, you know, when you have a little something going on where you're like, well, I've got to, you know, make hate while the sun's shining.

00:55:51.000 I understand that wholeheartedly.

00:55:54.000 But, you know, we're only human beings and we all have limits.

00:55:57.000 Yeah.

00:55:57.000 Do you have a limit of the amount of days that you could sing in a week?

00:56:00.000 Yeah, three.

00:56:01.000 That's it?

00:56:01.000 That's it.

00:56:02.000 And then your voice starts to get strained?

00:56:04.000 Yeah.

00:56:04.000 I mean, I sing pretty hard, too.

00:56:07.000 Yeah, that's the end.

00:56:12.000 You know, and I have, you know, conversations with other singers when I run into them.

00:56:15.000 It's like, how many shows can you play in a week?

00:56:17.000 And, you know, some guys it's two, and some guys it's like, I can play every day of the week.

00:56:22.000 Wow.

00:56:23.000 But that's not me.

00:56:24.000 Three shows is kind of the limit.

00:56:25.000 Do you ever have a greedy McMoneybags agent that's like, listen, Chris, four shows a week, 25% more money?

00:56:34.000 Well...

00:56:35.000 Just one more show.

00:56:36.000 I wouldn't call anybody I work with greedy big money bags.

00:56:39.000 Not going to hurt you, Christopher.

00:56:41.000 Two shows a night, not a big deal.

00:56:42.000 But certainly, you know, certainly everybody, you know, everybody wants...

00:56:49.000 You know, as you work with.

00:56:51.000 And that's their job, is to try to maximize what you're able to do monetarily.

00:56:55.000 And, you know, sometimes you just have to look at them and go, sorry, I can't do that.

00:57:00.000 So ultimately you're the captain.

00:57:02.000 Yeah, not physically possible.

00:57:03.000 And then they have to deal within those parameters, and we figure out how to maximize that.

00:57:08.000 Does every country music singer have to live around Nashville?

00:57:11.000 Is that, like, requisite?

00:57:13.000 Um, I don't... 1.00

00:57:14.000 It seems like it's a giant collection of you fuckers living in this one spot. 0.99

00:57:18.000 Well, I mean, that is kind of the hub for, you know, like, actors living in L.A. or something. 0.99

00:57:24.000 Right, right.

00:57:24.000 Or New York, whatever.

00:57:26.000 I think it's L.A. If you want to be in a certain industry, it helps, you know, must be a present to win, you know?

00:57:34.000 Yeah.

00:57:36.000 To some degree, you know?

00:57:38.000 Do you feel that that place has a certain energy to it as well, though?

00:57:43.000 It does have energy to it, and it has had energy to it, and it's a very changing energy at the moment.

00:57:49.000 I don't live in Nashville proper anymore, but I did for years.

00:57:56.000 But it's a different place.

00:57:58.000 It's a music place, but there's so much else going on.

00:58:02.000 There's 19 or 20 cranes building condos downtown.

00:58:05.000 What's going on in Nashville?

00:58:07.000 I don't know.

00:58:08.000 Everybody wants to buy a condo, I guess.

00:58:12.000 I don't know.

00:58:12.000 I don't understand it.

00:58:14.000 But yeah, there's an influx of people who all of a sudden think it's a good idea to move to Nashville.

00:58:20.000 Yeah.

00:58:20.000 Well, that's what I had heard.

00:58:22.000 I had heard that it's almost becoming like LA-ified.

00:58:27.000 A little bit.

00:58:28.000 I don't know what that means.

00:58:29.000 But if that means that there's a lot of condo building going on.

00:58:32.000 Do you see a lot of chicks with lips like this? 1.00

00:58:35.000 Man, I really...

00:58:36.000 I'll be honest.

00:58:37.000 I don't...

00:58:38.000 I don't run around.

00:58:39.000 I go into Nashville when I have to go into Nashville for certain things.

00:58:43.000 For supplies.

00:58:44.000 Yeah, for supplies.

00:58:46.000 And then I park myself out in the country.

00:58:49.000 So that's where you live.

00:58:51.000 That's nice.

00:58:52.000 Got a spread?

00:58:53.000 Yeah, we have a little bit of land.

00:58:56.000 Wildlife, animals?

00:58:57.000 Oh yeah, none of those bobcats and turkeys.

00:59:00.000 Oh, that's nice.

00:59:01.000 Deer, you name it.

00:59:03.000 Yeah, what I've heard about Nashville is that Nashville started out as sort of this pure sort of music environment and then over time it became a money grab and people realized that it's a music environment and they said how do we capitalize on this and then people said oh I heard this is a music environment I'm gonna move there and then it became like a place to be to be seen and that it's it's still got the music there but it's it's also like weirdly compromised does that make sense?

00:59:32.000 No more than anywhere else.

00:59:34.000 Is that human nature?

00:59:38.000 Man, I don't know.

00:59:39.000 I don't want to say...

00:59:40.000 It sounds very like any corporate involvement of anything to say that it's been tainted or it's all a money grab or something.

00:59:55.000 I don't think it's all.

00:59:57.000 I'm definitely not saying that.

00:59:58.000 I love Nashville, by the way.

00:59:59.000 Okay, well, no, I do too, but I'm just trying to...

01:00:03.000 Wrapped my head around the relayed opinion of...or was that your opinion?

01:00:09.000 No, no.

01:00:09.000 It's other people that...I know people that have lived there and then moved back.

01:00:12.000 Gotcha.

01:00:13.000 Yeah.

01:00:13.000 Just people that had this romantic notion of, I want to go there and this is like sort of...

01:00:24.000 Yeah, I don't think that's really...

01:00:29.000 That's some kind of Mayberry version of what Nashville is.

01:00:35.000 Narnia.

01:00:36.000 Yeah, I think that's some kind of unicorn that you're inventing in your mind if you think that that's any town that you're going to.

01:00:43.000 It's like, I don't know, I don't know what the equivalent would be, but feeling like you moved to some island somewhere and everybody walks around and has yachts and just drinks martinis all day or whatever.

01:00:56.000 It's just like...

01:00:58.000 That's not even true.

01:00:59.000 Well, there's places that you're supposed to go to.

01:01:02.000 When I was in Boston, when I first started out doing stand-up, I'd heard about the Comedy Store.

01:01:06.000 That was like the Mecca.

01:01:07.000 You had to get to the Comedy Store in Hollywood.

01:01:09.000 It was like spoken with hushed tones.

01:01:11.000 And everybody sort of came to that place.

01:01:13.000 It drew everybody in from across the country.

01:01:16.000 And from my friends, like Honey Honey and other people that I know that lived in Nashville for a while, Nashville was kind of that to them.

01:01:23.000 What it was, was this kind of It's a place where you'd seen and heard so much amazing music has come out of that part of the world, and it's so music-centered.

01:01:33.000 It has a different vibe, because it's a very artistic city.

01:01:39.000 Absolutely.

01:01:40.000 But there's also a side to it now, and it's been in the last five...

01:01:45.000 Sorry, Nashville, if you feel like I'm talking about you, but there's a thing now where you go downtown, and It's more like you're going to a giant bachelorette party or something.

01:01:58.000 It's just like everybody's, I don't know, just looking to drink their face off and listen to bad covers.

01:02:06.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:02:08.000 I'm sorry.

01:02:09.000 I need to apologize.

01:02:10.000 No, it's okay.

01:02:11.000 You're being honest.

01:02:12.000 But it's, you know, and it's great for the city in a lot of ways, tourism-wise and monetarily and all those things, but it also changes that, whatever, some notions of that romantic thing that you're talking about.

01:02:24.000 Those things still exist, but they have to be, like a lot of things that have sold, they need to be sought out.

01:02:31.000 Right.

01:02:32.000 Like the difference between a real old-school barbecue joint and TGI Fridays.

01:02:37.000 I have nothing against T.G. Alphardis, but I know what you mean.

01:02:40.000 I know what you mean too.

01:02:42.000 I see you laughing at me like backpedaling all the potential.

01:02:46.000 No, no, no, no, no.

01:02:47.000 I'm forcing you into this.

01:02:48.000 I didn't mean to.

01:02:50.000 I'm just talking about...

01:02:52.000 My point about all of it really is the idea of artistic integrity is a fleeting thing and a sacred thing and a critical thing for a guy like you to create the kind of music that you make.

01:03:02.000 And I'm always interested like how someone cultivates that.

01:03:07.000 How someone protects that.

01:03:09.000 Because I think it's what goes away.

01:03:12.000 When things go off the rails, it's usually the focus away from the creative aspect of it, the art.

01:03:19.000 Making the thing that you loved in the beginning when you got into this thing.

01:03:23.000 Right.

01:03:23.000 You know, and sometimes people get...

01:03:25.000 It happens to comedians in a big way. 0.99

01:03:28.000 Movies and they become famous and then they believe their own bullshit and they put out these specials that are terrible. 0.99

01:03:33.000 It's real easy to fall into. 0.98

01:03:44.000 Maybe that is what's in their heart at that moment, and that's just as real as anything else, you know?

01:03:50.000 I would argue that it's in the wrong environment.

01:03:53.000 It's been surrounded by the wrong people with the wrong influences, and they have the wrong focus.

01:03:58.000 Okay.

01:03:59.000 Yeah, I mean, I'll go with that, but...

01:04:17.000 I think that's just life.

01:04:24.000 I don't know.

01:04:27.000 For me, if there's a way to try to preserve some notion of integrity, it's just that thing I was saying earlier.

01:04:37.000 It's just like, if you let all the other stuff just...

01:04:41.000 Put the blinders on and go, all right, here I am.

01:04:45.000 Here are the guys that I play music with and the girls.

01:04:49.000 We're going to sit in the room.

01:04:51.000 What are we going to do?

01:04:52.000 What will we do if none of this other stuff existed?

01:04:55.000 And that's the way you keep it.

01:04:58.000 Right.

01:05:20.000 Because all that kind of stuff is manufactured, too, like number ones.

01:05:24.000 Those are just numbers.

01:05:25.000 And some of them are so tainted by people just...

01:05:34.000 We're good to go.

01:05:52.000 Okay, so you're way anti any kind of award. 0.99

01:05:55.000 Well, I just think that the Oscars and the Grammys and all that kind of shit, I don't give a fuck who you think is great. 0.98

01:06:02.000 I don't care who you think is the great at number one. 0.99

01:06:07.000 And the winner is...

01:06:08.000 Open the envelope.

01:06:09.000 Oh my god, is he going to get it?

01:06:11.000 The work is the work.

01:06:12.000 The work is done. 1.00

01:06:14.000 Apocalypse Now is a great fucking movie. 0.99

01:06:16.000 It doesn't matter if you give him a gold statue or not. 0.99

01:06:19.000 What's the work?

01:06:20.000 The work is great.

01:06:22.000 For it to win a thing or not win a thing.

01:06:25.000 You know, and some of the things that have won, you can tell that the win is tainted by the political climate, that the people are, like, leaning towards something that's socially aware and kind.

01:06:35.000 So somebody made a movie with lesbians that saved the planet from, you know what I mean? 1.00

01:06:39.000 It's like, that kind of shit becomes, like, transparent and obvious, and you can do that and rig the system and win an award. 0.99

01:06:45.000 I think that awards for art are goofy. 0.99

01:06:49.000 Awards for comedy or every comedy competition I've ever seen, they're super goofy.

01:06:55.000 It's missing the whole idea of the thing.

01:06:58.000 The whole idea of the thing is supposed to be the art.

01:07:00.000 It's not supposed to be trying to win an award.

01:07:03.000 No, it's not.

01:07:06.000 But, you know, if you win an award out of that, it allows you to make more art.

01:07:10.000 And it makes people pay attention to the art.

01:07:12.000 So be it.

01:07:13.000 Yeah.

01:07:13.000 It's sort of a bastardization.

01:07:15.000 It's always felt like about that.

01:07:16.000 There was a show called Last Comic Standing.

01:07:18.000 And the good thing about it was that it got a lot of comics that people hadn't heard of.

01:07:22.000 And they put them on television and helped their career.

01:07:24.000 But the bad thing was they're doing like a contest.

01:07:27.000 And like, who's the audience?

01:07:28.000 Clap for more! 0.77

01:07:29.000 Do you want mic?

01:07:30.000 Yay! 0.99

01:07:31.000 What about Debbie?

01:07:32.000 Not too much. 0.99

01:07:33.000 That's fucking weird. 0.98

01:07:35.000 It's weird. 0.99

01:07:36.000 Okay.

01:07:37.000 We have a lot of those shows.

01:07:38.000 Yes.

01:07:39.000 There's not as many anymore.

01:07:40.000 A lot of them is singing, right?

01:07:41.000 Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

01:07:42.000 People like to watch those shows.

01:07:43.000 Yeah.

01:07:44.000 Because people also like the idea that you can be one thing one minute and one moment on television can make you some other totally different person.

01:07:55.000 People love that.

01:07:56.000 That's why Susan Boyle was so famous, right?

01:07:59.000 Yes.

01:08:00.000 We saw this woman.

01:08:01.000 Everybody was doubting her.

01:08:02.000 She goes out there, and she's got pipes! 1.00

01:08:05.000 And she belts that song out, and you can see Simon, who's just a douchebag, was like, holy shit! 1.00

01:08:12.000 She's amazing! 1.00

01:08:13.000 Like, you could see it, like, undeniable, you know?

01:08:16.000 Those are good moments though.

01:08:18.000 Yes.

01:08:18.000 Those are good moments.

01:08:19.000 Those are the best moments.

01:08:20.000 The other good moments are like when they have American Idol and they have those people that have no business being there and they play their auditions too.

01:08:28.000 Those are the other good moments for the wrong reasons, right?

01:08:31.000 Yes.

01:08:32.000 But, you know, if you're watching that show, you're watching it for that, too.

01:08:36.000 Right.

01:08:37.000 Is there a good show to introduce people to country music?

01:08:40.000 Like, you know, they used to have...

01:08:41.000 There used to be, like, shows where people could, you know...

01:08:45.000 Yeah, we used to have, you know, like, Nashville Now and things like that.

01:08:49.000 I don't think that really exists anymore.

01:08:51.000 Like a country music-specific show?

01:08:54.000 Yeah.

01:08:55.000 No, I don't think we really have that anymore.

01:08:56.000 Like a variety show, like Johnny Cash show or Glenn Campbell's show or something like that.

01:09:00.000 No, we don't have that anymore.

01:09:01.000 And I don't know how much people...

01:09:12.000 I just think someone needs to make it.

01:09:14.000 I feel like there's so much.

01:09:16.000 You're telling me about all these artists I've got to go look into, and I'm sure there's a bunch that are coming up that are probably equally talented, and maybe they just need an opportunity like that.

01:09:25.000 Something along those lines, some sort of a show, a variety show where really talented people can come out and show their songs.

01:09:32.000 It'd be good.

01:09:34.000 Well, the closest thing to that right now, have you seen this Mike Judge show?

01:09:38.000 Mike Judge, the guy from King of the Hill?

01:09:41.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:09:42.000 It's like Tales from the Tour Bus or something like that?

01:09:45.000 No, what is that?

01:09:46.000 He talks to all these old school, like, Texas country acts.

01:09:50.000 It's all the folklore of country music.

01:09:54.000 And he does it like interview style, and they're all telling these stories.

01:09:57.000 Yeah.

01:09:59.000 Play this trailer.

01:10:00.000 Oh, man.

01:10:00.000 I want to hear this.

01:10:01.000 It's phenomenal.

01:10:02.000 I love Mike Judge.

01:10:03.000 George Jones.

01:10:06.000 He had 36 brand new cars.

01:10:08.000 My favorite had a horn sound like a dying bull.

01:10:12.000 The wild Terry Lee Lewis.

01:10:14.000 He bought a machine gun and shot up a demo at it.

01:10:17.000 It was next door to $50,000 worth of false teeth.

01:10:20.000 I knew he was fixing to shoot, and I didn't want to be in the land of fire.

01:10:26.000 So they would tell stories and then they'd animate them.

01:10:29.000 Yeah, but all these guys that you see animated, these are the real guys that lived a lot of these things and are telling these stories.

01:10:35.000 These are not made up characters in any way and I know some of the guys that wind up being animated on these things and And I have for years said, you know, if even half of the folklore that exists in country music could be told, it would be the biggest thing in the world,

01:10:53.000 you know?

01:10:53.000 And that's what he's doing right now with that show, and he's doing an excellent job of it, and it's really...

01:10:58.000 For me, and maybe it's not as entertaining to other people, I don't know, but for me as a musician, knowing some of the folklore and knowing how many great characters and storytellers exist in country music and have existed, it's so refreshing to see these guys get stories told about them.

01:11:16.000 That's awesome.

01:11:16.000 I didn't even know Mike Judge was a country music fan.

01:11:19.000 I didn't either, but I gotta tell you, he's knocking it out of the park as far as I'm concerned with this TV show.

01:11:26.000 I hope it does really well.

01:11:28.000 I'm so glad you brought this up.

01:11:29.000 Yeah, it looks hilarious.

01:11:31.000 It's awesome.

01:11:33.000 And I don't say that about much.

01:11:35.000 I don't really, like, get super pumped up about a lot. 0.99

01:11:39.000 Do you watch other shit? 0.96

01:11:40.000 Yeah, you know, I like a lot of, I like, I mean, some pretty obvious things like Game of Thrones and Walking Dead. 0.99

01:11:48.000 I'm into that.

01:11:49.000 I like, you know, I like kind of science fiction based things and, you know, I like, but I like, I like things that are done well, whatever it is.

01:11:57.000 And I think both of those are done well.

01:11:59.000 So do you binge watch TV shows?

01:12:01.000 Absolutely.

01:12:02.000 That's the only way I can watch a TV show, you know, because half the time I'm doing something when it actually comes on, you know?

01:12:07.000 Right, right, right. 0.93

01:12:09.000 So when you look at yourself right now and you look at all this cool shit that you're doing, do you hope to just keep doing it this way? 0.97

01:12:17.000 Do you have some grand plans? 0.97

01:12:19.000 We far surpass any grand plan that I might have had like years ago.

01:12:25.000 So I'm...

01:12:28.000 I'm hopeful that we get to continue to do some cool things and have fun doing it.

01:12:36.000 I'm at that age where I'm just old enough not to be stupid with what we're doing and hopefully young enough to really get to keep doing it for a little while.

01:12:50.000 You know, I don't know, man.

01:12:52.000 I'm grateful for anything that we've gotten to do and we'll get to do in the future, and hopefully the next few years will just be a continuation of that.

01:13:02.000 That's all you could ask for, man.

01:13:03.000 I mean, what you're doing now is so awesome and so much fun.

01:13:08.000 Yeah, I can't imagine.

01:13:10.000 If I could write a script for how...

01:13:14.000 This is how the curve of I want my career of putting records out to go.

01:13:19.000 I couldn't write it any better for me.

01:13:22.000 And I get to do...

01:13:25.000 I have freedom to do basically whatever I want, and play however I want, and sing about whatever I want, and it's the greatest thing in the world.

01:13:39.000 Do you get young guys coming up to you, young girls coming up to you that have dreams of being a singer-songwriter?

01:13:45.000 Sure.

01:13:46.000 And ask you for advice?

01:13:47.000 Yeah, and my advice is always just be nice, you know?

01:13:50.000 Be nice?

01:13:50.000 Be nice, yeah.

01:13:51.000 Really?

01:13:51.000 Yeah, well, I think that's, you know, I think that's...

01:13:55.000 It's always easier than making too many enemies.

01:14:00.000 You'll inevitably have people that Don't believe in what you do.

01:14:05.000 That's all that subjective thing.

01:14:09.000 Of course.

01:14:10.000 Yeah, being nice is important.

01:14:13.000 But also being you.

01:14:14.000 Be you and be nice.

01:14:15.000 If you do those two things, I think that's the best recipe to hopefully for you to put yourself in the position to get lucky.

01:14:26.000 Is this something that you had to figure out yourself?

01:14:31.000 Yeah.

01:14:32.000 Yeah.

01:14:33.000 I mean, but you know, when you start, and I don't know how it works from your end what you do, when you start And when you get your first little, you know, I get a publishing deal and you get to be around some of what an industry is.

01:14:48.000 And then you slowly but surely get to meet people who are successful in different facets of it.

01:14:54.000 And I think what I find is the people that I gravitate towards and that I really respect and look at and go, A career like that would be nice.

01:15:07.000 They're very nice caring, giving individuals who support younger artists and they do nice things for their communities and they do nice things for people out in the world.

01:15:19.000 And they make music that's in their heart.

01:15:22.000 And those are the things that I think are good to aspire to as a musician.

01:15:31.000 And those are the things I respect.

01:15:33.000 I respect that.

01:15:35.000 Yeah.

01:15:35.000 A whole lot.

01:15:36.000 Not just talented, but nice.

01:15:38.000 Yeah.

01:15:39.000 Yeah.

01:15:39.000 Now, what about, like, work ethic?

01:15:42.000 Do you have people asking questions about, like, how do you motivate yourself?

01:15:47.000 Or how do you sit down and write?

01:15:50.000 What's your process?

01:15:53.000 What is my advice to them?

01:15:56.000 I say write as much as you can with as many people as you can find who know what they're doing.

01:16:01.000 And that's how you learn how to write songs.

01:16:05.000 But I'll also say, I used to have a songwriter friend who said, you can't learn how to be a songwriter.

01:16:11.000 You can learn how to write better songs more often.

01:16:15.000 But it's not, you know, it's like, and forgive me if this is a wrong analogy, but I don't think you can really learn how to be funny if you're a comedian.

01:16:24.000 I used to think that.

01:16:26.000 I used to think that.

01:16:27.000 Because I used to think, well, you're either funny or not funny.

01:16:30.000 And then I realized, like, oh, some people need to learn how to be comfortable enough to be funny.

01:16:33.000 You think?

01:16:34.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:16:35.000 I've met people that sucked, and then they got good. 0.96

01:16:38.000 Really? 0.97

01:16:38.000 Like, really good. 0.97

01:16:40.000 Well, I'm giving the wrong advice then, because I don't think you are.

01:16:43.000 I personally think, like...

01:16:45.000 Some of it has to be innate, and then you have to learn how to sharpen that tool a little bit.

01:16:50.000 Well, I think whoever you are can change.

01:16:52.000 And I think if you are in a position where you are incapable of writing songs or incapable of being funny or incapable of writing books or doing paintings, whatever it is, it's because of whoever you are right now.

01:17:04.000 But that doesn't mean that whoever you are right now is who you're going to be five years from now or whatever.

01:17:08.000 I think if you can go through enough personal growth and enough introspective thinking and objective realization of your environment and the way you interface with people slowly but surely changes and evolves and matures, your art will, your expression will, because you're not who you were.

01:17:24.000 You know, you're not who you were five years ago.

01:17:26.000 You're not who you were ten years ago.

01:17:27.000 Okay.

01:17:29.000 Okay.

01:17:30.000 This is my thought.

01:17:30.000 I mean, I don't think it works without everybody.

01:17:32.000 There's some people that just aren't fucking funny. 0.93

01:17:35.000 Don't get me wrong. 1.00

01:17:36.000 But I used to think that it was just, if you sucked in the beginning, you're going to suck. 1.00

01:17:40.000 And then I met some people that sucked. 0.99

01:17:42.000 But there has to be some element of spark or drive, even.

01:17:47.000 I think, would you say that if the person that was trying to be funny was not funny at first, they at least knew that they weren't funny and had to get better at it?

01:17:57.000 No.

01:17:59.000 No.

01:18:00.000 Sometimes they think they're funny and then they become funny.

01:18:03.000 I used to think that there was much more of a clear, defined pattern than I think now.

01:18:10.000 But I think it's about being clueless.

01:18:13.000 I think cluelessness is the enemy of anything that you're going to make that's going to have a real impact on people, if you're clueless. 0.97

01:18:23.000 If you don't see how people perceive you, if you're not aware of how they're taking you in when you're communicating with them, your art is going to suck.

01:18:32.000 You don't have a connection with them.

01:18:34.000 You don't have a connection with people.

01:18:35.000 You don't have a connection with yourself.

01:18:37.000 I think...

01:18:38.000 Unless there's some sort of a solitary thing that you do, like maybe sculpting or painting, like you could be a madman who's totally in your own world and create some crazy art form that someone can come along and look at and go, wow.

01:18:50.000 But anything where you're interacting with people, I think there's a big part of that interaction is...

01:18:56.000 The way you look through other people's eyes and the way they take in what you're saying, not just what you want to get out, but also your recognition, whether peripherally or whether it's obviously, your realization of how they're perceiving your thoughts and ideas and what vehicle you're delivering these ideas in.

01:19:17.000 Is it clunky and too loud, or do you have the same thought and make it smooth and calm and sinking into people with The right words and the right cadence and the right...

01:19:28.000 You can have the same ideas, but they just need a better vehicle to get through.

01:19:32.000 And I think cluelessness prevents you from objectively analyzing your own work.

01:19:39.000 Gotcha.

01:19:40.000 So self-awareness.

01:19:41.000 Yeah, self-awareness is a really important part.

01:19:43.000 And brutal honesty, you know.

01:19:45.000 With yourself.

01:19:46.000 Yeah.

01:19:47.000 Okay.

01:19:48.000 I'll go with that.

01:19:50.000 Yeah.

01:19:50.000 I mean, you must have that with songs, right?

01:19:52.000 Like, do you have songs where you write and then you go back and go, what the fuck is this? 0.98

01:19:57.000 Absolutely. 0.98

01:19:59.000 Absolutely.

01:20:00.000 You know, but you also have songs where...

01:20:05.000 Every day you write a song and you get done, you don't get to the end of the day without thinking that you did something good.

01:20:11.000 Right.

01:20:11.000 But it's only on, you know, you've got to get away from it a little bit and then re-listen to it or re-examine it and go, eh.

01:20:20.000 Or, hey, that was a good one.

01:20:23.000 So I think it's easy to feel like you were a genius in the moment.

01:20:28.000 Right.

01:20:29.000 As a songwriter.

01:20:30.000 Especially if you've got a couple of drinks.

01:20:31.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:20:32.000 Yeah.

01:20:36.000 How much of the stuff that you actually write becomes a song that you publish?

01:20:42.000 Say if you're writing, how many of the days spent does it actually come out to be a full song?

01:20:52.000 Oh, I can write a song in three hours.

01:20:53.000 Really?

01:20:54.000 But you can also not write a song in three hours, right?

01:20:56.000 Yeah, if I don't want to.

01:20:58.000 Are you asking if there's a schedule to write something?

01:21:00.000 No, no, no.

01:21:01.000 I mean, how much of it really connects with you?

01:21:04.000 I'm sure you must be sitting... 0.82

01:21:06.000 Sometimes you sit down, and on the first draft, you just fucking nail it, right? 0.90

01:21:12.000 You got an inspiration? 0.91

01:21:13.000 Oh, yeah, me every time.

01:21:17.000 But I'm just trying to see if there's parallels, because comedy is probably ten to one. 0.98

01:21:21.000 Ten things I write are bullshit in one thing. 0.81

01:21:24.000 I'm like, hmm, might be something there. 0.94

01:21:26.000 Yeah, I think if you're doing ten percent of what you do is work that you deem good enough to put out in the world, I think you're probably doing pretty good.

01:21:37.000 I mean, I think that's a pretty good average of things that are worth something.

01:21:44.000 You hope for better, but if you're doing that, I think that's doing your job.

01:21:49.000 I also believe you've got to go through some of the ones that aren't there just to kind of flush them out.

01:21:55.000 Right, right.

01:21:56.000 You have to get that out, otherwise it's stuck there and it's going to mess with everything else you're doing.

01:22:03.000 If there's something on your mind to work on, work on it to the end.

01:22:07.000 Make it the best you can make it.

01:22:09.000 Then look at it and go, hey, was this really something I should have worked on?

01:22:13.000 Right.

01:22:14.000 Yes or no.

01:22:15.000 And then you can push it out and kind of move on.

01:22:19.000 I think that's important to kind of flush out your mind that way creatively.

01:22:22.000 Do you ever come back to your stuff, like sort of almost like come back to it when you haven't thought about it in forever and look at it with fresh eyes, almost like you're collaborating with somebody else and redoing their stuff?

01:22:32.000 I'm very much the guy who believes the first instinct is probably the correct one most of the time.

01:22:40.000 Interesting.

01:22:40.000 I don't like to go back and edit and edit and edit.

01:22:43.000 It's not me.

01:22:44.000 Really?

01:22:45.000 Yeah.

01:22:45.000 So when you write a song, you write a song.

01:22:47.000 Pretty much.

01:22:48.000 Wow, that's interesting.

01:22:49.000 Does everybody do it that way?

01:22:50.000 No, no, not at all.

01:22:52.000 There are guys who will take a whole year to write one song.

01:22:54.000 Really?

01:22:55.000 And I can't write with those guys.

01:22:58.000 I respect them.

01:22:59.000 But I don't have that kind of patience.

01:23:02.000 I don't.

01:23:02.000 And they've written some songs that I think are fantastic.

01:23:05.000 And I really do appreciate them.

01:23:07.000 But I'm completely impatient writing songs.

01:23:11.000 I feel like...

01:23:13.000 You know, my favorite songs are ones that just kind of fall down out of the sky in a bolt of lightning, and you write it in about 10 minutes, and you're like, that's exactly what it was supposed to be.

01:23:23.000 Right.

01:23:23.000 Great.

01:23:24.000 I'm done.

01:23:25.000 I'm going to go eat a sandwich.

01:23:28.000 Right. 1.00

01:23:29.000 How much of your shit do you write under the influence of something? 1.00

01:23:32.000 I don't like that. 1.00

01:23:33.000 Really?

01:23:33.000 Really, to do that.

01:23:35.000 Nothing?

01:23:35.000 Well, I mean, I might have a sip of bourbon or something, but, you know, I don't like that that much, because I like...

01:23:43.000 I like the clarity.

01:23:48.000 Some guys can't do it without it.

01:23:50.000 Some guys, it's like that makes them all of a sudden turn into the Michael Jordan of songwriting.

01:23:58.000 For me, if I'm going to do something like that, it's recreational and I'm going to go eat a bunch of chips and watch a movie or something.

01:24:08.000 It's just like...

01:24:10.000 I'm not going to get any real...

01:24:12.000 Not much worthwhile is going to come out of that for me.

01:24:17.000 Yeah.

01:24:18.000 It's an interesting thing that people have this different approach to essentially what's an open-ended creative avenue.

01:24:27.000 Creating a song, it's a blank sheet of paper.

01:24:32.000 And so many different people have different approaches to how to make that thing come out of their head.

01:24:38.000 Yeah, well, and I'm not saying that I haven't tried many different ways to make things happen, but I find, you know, for me, the process of clarity works better than trying to alter myself to get to some other plane.

01:24:56.000 Maybe there is another plane I don't know about, but I've never been there.

01:25:00.000 Right.

01:25:00.000 I would want, like, George Carlin had an interesting way that he wrote comedy.

01:25:03.000 He would write comedy sober, and then he would smoke a joint and punch it up.

01:25:07.000 Hmm.

01:25:08.000 Yeah.

01:25:09.000 So he'd write the initial ideas, he'd write it all out, write out the bit, and then he'd...

01:25:14.000 Okay.

01:25:17.000 Let's look at this thing again.

01:25:20.000 Well, I mean, I think that probably works in comedy.

01:25:23.000 Yeah, I've started adopting that.

01:25:25.000 I used to write almost all high.

01:25:27.000 And now I write 50% high, 50% sober, and then I punch up high.

01:25:35.000 Okay.

01:25:35.000 Yeah, but not too high.

01:25:37.000 And punch-up is a comedic term for editing.

01:25:40.000 Yeah, pretty much.

01:25:42.000 Yeah, it depends on some styles of writing.

01:25:46.000 Some guys write in bit form, like they say, so, the other day I walk, and they write it out like that.

01:25:52.000 And other guys would just, like, say clocks, like the idea of clocks, like the arbitrary decision that we all made, that there's You know, these little numbers around this dial.

01:26:02.000 It's a minute is this amount of time.

01:26:04.000 And you'll just start writing all these different things.

01:26:07.000 And out of that, you might write a whole essay.

01:26:09.000 Out of that, you might have one paragraph that makes sense.

01:26:11.000 Like one quick one-liner about time.

01:26:15.000 Maybe it's an answer to a pretentious friend.

01:26:18.000 It's like, there is no time, man. 1.00

01:26:20.000 Well, if you fucking show up late and you get fired, it's time for you to get a new job, bitch. 1.00

01:26:25.000 That could be a way where you could take time and just take this big essay on it and you would extract an idea that could eventually be humor on stage. 1.00

01:26:36.000 But everybody's got a different style of that.

01:26:39.000 Yeah.

01:26:42.000 That's a lot of thinking. 1.00

01:26:43.000 Fuck, man. 1.00

01:26:44.000 It's all a lot of thinking, right? 1.00

01:26:46.000 Dude, that's why I always love talking to people that do something completely different than me, like you.

01:26:50.000 Because I always want to know, like, okay, how does a guy who writes books do this?

01:26:54.000 How does a guy who writes songs do this?

01:26:57.000 How does a guy who makes movies do this?

01:26:59.000 Right.

01:27:00.000 You know?

01:27:00.000 Because it seems like it's a lot of the same muscles, but then in talking here, I'm not sure that the processes are exactly...

01:27:07.000 I don't know that they always translate.

01:27:10.000 I think the focus is the same thing.

01:27:13.000 It's like whatever your end goal is, whatever you're trying to create, it's all about showing up and doing that work and staring at it and trying to figure it out.

01:27:21.000 And then for comedy, it's a lot about getting in front of the crowds.

01:27:25.000 You got to work a lot.

01:27:27.000 If you don't work a lot, it's not going to work.

01:27:29.000 It just won't.

01:27:30.000 You have to be out there. 0.96

01:27:32.000 You can't just create comedy on your own, whereas I think you with a bunch of talented musicians, you could probably develop a fucking jamming record before anybody ever got a chance to see it. 0.96

01:27:42.000 And that's what you do. 0.97

01:27:43.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:27:44.000 It's a completely different style of creation.

01:27:46.000 Although we do try things out on the road, and you kind of get a feel for them sometimes that way.

01:27:53.000 So yeah, we do some of that.

01:27:55.000 Absolutely.

01:27:57.000 But probably not as much as what you're talking about.

01:27:59.000 Yeah, I think it's a different art form, right?

01:28:02.000 Do you ever do things specifically with the intention of getting material out of it?

01:28:11.000 Like in life?

01:28:13.000 Yeah, like go do something.

01:28:14.000 Like maybe if I go do this, I'll figure out, I'll get some songs out of this or something.

01:28:20.000 You know, I don't know that I'd ever specifically do something to get material out of it, but I do do things because Something comes up and I go that sounds so weird.

01:28:29.000 I'm gonna go do that and then from that and then from that Either good things happen or I have a story that yeah sounds like it's fake That might be the best way to do it right to just live a happy Fulfilled life and mine that happy fulfilled life for ideas rather than chase Interesting things with a specific intention of turning them into creativity Yeah,

01:28:52.000 no, I don't think I'd ever do that, but I'd definitely, I'd go do things that might make me uncomfortable or, you know, put myself in situations where, like, this sounds like the weirdest thing ever.

01:29:02.000 Like what?

01:29:04.000 Well, you know, case in point, and it turned out to be, you know, we're now good friends, but, you know, the first time I ever met Timberlake...

01:29:12.000 Justin Timberlake?

01:29:13.000 Yeah, I got a call to basically play at his birthday party.

01:29:18.000 His wife called me.

01:29:20.000 And this is no live, like he'd seen a YouTube video or something and said, hey, would you come play?

01:29:26.000 I thought I was getting punked or something.

01:29:28.000 And I was just like...

01:29:31.000 And the conversation with his wife, Jessie, she was like, yeah, you know, there's not a lot of things that...

01:29:39.000 He's done a lot of things.

01:29:40.000 It's hard for me to find new experiences for him.

01:29:43.000 And so I was wondering if you would like to come play at his birthday party.

01:29:45.000 And so I'm thinking, and so this is what you came up with.

01:29:48.000 You know, this dude he saw a YouTube video on, get him to come play at his birthday party.

01:29:54.000 And it turned out to be fine.

01:29:55.000 And we hung out, you know, But on paper, to me, it was just like, this is really strange.

01:30:03.000 I don't know what's going to happen.

01:30:06.000 But out of that, we've become friends and done things together, and good things have come out of it.

01:30:13.000 But there was no intent out of it other than I thought it would be interesting to go do.

01:30:20.000 And so I went and hung out, and it turned out to be great, and we're good friends now.

01:30:26.000 That's pretty badass.

01:30:27.000 Yeah, but that's how we met.

01:30:29.000 Look at you two.

01:30:31.000 Yeah, there we are.

01:30:33.000 And I was literally his birthday present one year or so.

01:30:35.000 That's wild, man.

01:30:37.000 That's pretty cool.

01:30:38.000 Yeah, I think that might be the formula.

01:30:41.000 Just, if you can, do things that you find interesting, and just have those as being, like, Excellent side adventures in your life.

01:30:55.000 Right.

01:30:55.000 And nobody else has to understand it but you.

01:30:58.000 And that's the cool part about it.

01:31:00.000 People used to get on to me.

01:31:02.000 I used to be in a bluegrass band.

01:31:03.000 And they're like, why are you spending time being in a bluegrass band?

01:31:06.000 Well, out of being in that bluegrass band, I got a cut on Adele.

01:31:10.000 Right.

01:31:13.000 Who would have thought that that was the A plus B equals C formula for that?

01:31:19.000 Go be in a bluegrass band, and you'll get a pop cut on the biggest pop star in the world.

01:31:24.000 Isn't that funny, though, that someone would say, hey, why do you want to be in a bluegrass band?

01:31:28.000 Well, they wouldn't say, hey, why do you like going fishing?

01:31:31.000 Yeah, I don't know.

01:31:33.000 You like it.

01:31:34.000 Yeah, I like it.

01:31:35.000 Why do you like bowling?

01:31:36.000 Right.

01:31:37.000 It's interesting to me.

01:31:38.000 So I'm going to follow that road until it ends or takes a curve or runs off a cliff.

01:31:45.000 Do you do anything specifically to try to enrich your mind?

01:31:48.000 Do you read a lot or anything?

01:31:50.000 I'm not a huge reader.

01:31:52.000 I just play a lot of guitar.

01:31:56.000 I think that's my thing that I really kind of internalize on.

01:32:01.000 Like almost like a meditation?

01:32:02.000 Yes, absolutely.

01:32:03.000 If I'm feeling bad or in a bad headspace, I'm going to pick up a guitar.

01:32:09.000 If I'm, you know...

01:32:12.000 That's what I do.

01:32:14.000 If there's a centering thing, I'm going to pick up a guitar to get there for me.

01:32:22.000 I don't know.

01:32:23.000 I don't know if that's flexing your mind a little bit.

01:32:29.000 It is.

01:32:30.000 It's something.

01:32:33.000 Playing the guitar is one of those things where you never think that you're ever getting any better at it until one day you wake up and you understand something that you didn't understand and hadn't understood for the ten years you've been trying to understand it.

01:32:47.000 And then all of a sudden you have this new You know, new space to live in on it.

01:32:53.000 And it's the coolest thing in the world to me.

01:32:56.000 Whoa.

01:32:57.000 I know what you're saying, but I don't know what you're saying.

01:32:59.000 It's like plateauing and working out or something.

01:33:01.000 You hit a new level.

01:33:02.000 Like you're working out and you're working out and you're working out and you work out for 10 years and you never get...

01:33:08.000 You hit this point where you're like, all right, this is the peak of what I have.

01:33:12.000 And then someday...

01:33:14.000 For some unknown reason your body or something makes sense and all of a sudden you could do something you could never do before.

01:33:21.000 And that's what playing a guitar is.

01:33:24.000 I kind of understand the space you're talking about and I think that applies to a lot of different things.

01:33:31.000 You know, there's this Miyamoto Musashi quote that I use all the time.

01:33:37.000 Once you understand the way broadly, you see it in all things.

01:33:41.000 And that this place that you're talking about, like these new level places, like that exists in martial arts, it exists in comedy, it exists in writing, it exists in...

01:33:52.000 I'm sure it exists in music, although I don't do music.

01:33:54.000 I think this thing of this Zen samurai thing you're talking about, of just like this constant focus until you reach some new understanding of the thing.

01:34:04.000 And you don't even know how you're getting there, but you're...

01:34:08.000 But you're working towards something that you don't know what it is until you get there.

01:34:12.000 Yeah.

01:34:12.000 And then you get it and you have this new piece of knowledge or it's a piece of – and it's a new – all of a sudden you're something new too.

01:34:21.000 And maybe that's the thing you were talking about earlier about people who suck at comedy.

01:34:26.000 All of a sudden they're funny.

01:34:28.000 Yeah.

01:34:32.000 That's what I get off on, is finding that.

01:34:38.000 And I don't claim to be...

01:34:41.000 I don't belong in Gary Clark Jr. world or anything like that, but I do love guitar enough to know that I'm always playing enough to try to find that new space to live.

01:34:55.000 And that's the coolest thing in the world to me, because I'll never get to whatever...

01:35:00.000 There's never an end to it.

01:35:01.000 Right, right.

01:35:02.000 Yeah, there's no perfection.

01:35:04.000 There's no perfection.

01:35:05.000 There's no...

01:35:06.000 There's never an end to it.

01:35:08.000 It's just a constantly trying to get better at doing what you do.

01:35:12.000 Or being you.

01:35:14.000 Trying to make yourself better.

01:35:15.000 Yeah.

01:35:16.000 And that thing seems to manifest itself more with a singular focus.

01:35:20.000 Like guitar.

01:35:22.000 Yeah.

01:35:22.000 Oh, yeah.

01:35:23.000 You have to be, like, way obsessed with one thing.

01:35:26.000 Yeah.

01:35:28.000 And that's it for me, for the most part. 1.00

01:35:31.000 Chris Stampton, you're a bad motherfucker. 1.00

01:35:33.000 Thank you for coming on the show, man. 1.00

01:35:34.000 I really appreciate it.

01:35:35.000 Yeah, man.

01:35:35.000 It's been a real joy.

01:35:37.000 It's a real honor, man.

01:35:37.000 Thank you.

01:35:39.000 Go buy a shit, folks. 1.00

01:35:40.000 It's fucking awesome. 1.00

01:35:41.000 Alright, we'll see you tomorrow. 0.95

01:35:42.000 Bye!

The Joe Rogan Experience - December 06, 2017

Joe Rogan Experience #1049 - Chris Stapleton

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