The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1052 - Mick West

00:00:02.000 Four, three, two, one...

00:00:05.000 Yes, McWest, we are live!

00:00:08.000 Finally!

00:00:09.000 Are you ready?

00:00:09.000 I am ready.

00:00:10.000 Let's do it.

00:00:11.000 Dude, you're getting a lot of heat online from all these...

00:00:13.000 It's all the Flat Earth people and the Chemtrail people.

00:00:16.000 Those are the people that are mad at you the most.

00:00:18.000 Yeah, that's my specialty.

00:00:19.000 Chemtrails and Flat Earth.

00:00:21.000 Yeah, well, I asked people.

00:00:24.000 This is hilarious.

00:00:26.000 I asked people online.

00:00:27.000 I said, Mick West from Metabunk is going to be here.

00:00:31.000 What would you like me to debunk?

00:00:33.000 And one of the first ones was Chemtrails because you cannot debunk it.

00:00:37.000 It's real.

00:00:38.000 Dun, dun, dun.

00:00:40.000 I would say this to anybody who thinks that.

00:00:43.000 That has got to be the most ineffective government program of all time.

00:00:50.000 You ask people what they're doing by spraying things in the sky, and the number one thing they'll say is weather control.

00:00:57.000 Weather control is one. 0.90

00:00:58.000 Well, they don't have any fucking control of the weather, because if they did, they'd make it rain all over Santa Barbara and stop these fires. 0.96

00:01:04.000 I mean, there's hundreds of millions of dollars worth of damage going on right now. 0.98

00:01:08.000 There's a fire that's bigger than the city of Washington, D.C., They think they're making those fires.

00:01:12.000 They think that's part of the conspiracy.

00:01:15.000 Anything that happens is always part of the conspiracy.

00:01:17.000 What do you think it is?

00:01:19.000 What is it with conspiracies?

00:01:24.000 Why are they so attractive to people?

00:01:26.000 There's something going on with people, right?

00:01:28.000 Yeah.

00:01:29.000 I think I've been looking into this a lot.

00:01:32.000 I bet you have.

00:01:34.000 Especially since you're a government shell!

00:01:37.000 Well, I'm doing research with a book I'm writing, which is called Escaping the Rabbit Hole, and it's about how people get into the rabbit hole and how people get out of the rabbit hole.

00:01:44.000 So the whole thing is about the rabbit hole, which is something basically people get sucked into.

00:01:49.000 And I think people do a lot of research into the reasons behind people getting into conspiracy theories, like the psychological reasons and the personality reasons and things like that.

00:02:00.000 But I think most conspiracy theorists are just regular people.

00:02:04.000 They're just ordinary people who get sucked into something.

00:02:06.000 And why do you think that is?

00:02:08.000 Just from talking to them.

00:02:10.000 They tell me their origin stories, essentially.

00:02:15.000 And they tell me what happened to them when they got into conspiracy theories.

00:02:18.000 And it nearly always starts with them looking at some video.

00:02:22.000 Nowadays, it starts with them looking at some video.

00:02:25.000 And then they just get sucked in.

00:02:27.000 And then they start looking at another video, and another video, and another video, and Facebook and YouTube is feeding them these videos, because once you start going down that road, you just can't change your trajectory.

00:02:41.000 Right.

00:02:42.000 It's hard.

00:02:43.000 I mean, YouTube, since they instigated this...

00:02:48.000 Autoplay thing or instituted this autoplay thing or the next video plays immediately and they're all related.

00:02:55.000 I think that's definitely been a thing with people and also like the suggestions on the right hand side if you're watching one video on a particular subject.

00:03:02.000 Yeah, I was doing some experiments with that.

00:03:03.000 I set up like a completely blank YouTube account and I would just go in there and type in one thing like contrails.

00:03:09.000 And of course when you look at contrails on YouTube, like half the videos you're gonna get are gonna be chemtrail videos.

00:03:15.000 Right.

00:03:15.000 And so if the first video you click on is a chemtrail video, then that just sets you down that road.

00:03:21.000 Well, I remember this was in the days, I think, before YouTube.

00:03:27.000 This was in the days when maybe YouTube was around, but it just wasn't that popular. 0.56

00:03:31.000 I remember me and my friend Eddie were high as fuck, and we're talking to my neighbor, and there was some plane that was flying over, and we were wondering why the clouds... 0.78

00:03:41.000 Coming from behind this plane stood so long. 0.96

00:03:44.000 So I asked him, I used to have this neighbor, I used to call him Bling Bling, because Bling Bling was incapable of talking about anything other than objects. 0.98

00:03:53.000 Like, oh, he'd talk about, oh, that's a nice car.

00:03:55.000 Is that a new car?

00:03:55.000 Where'd you get that watch?

00:03:56.000 Like, that was Bling Bling.

00:03:57.000 All Bling Bling wanted to talk about is, like, material possessions.

00:04:01.000 So, he and I were parked in front of his...

00:04:05.000 I was saying hi to him, and I said, hey man, do you remember clouds sticking around in the sky that long?

00:04:10.000 And he's like, no, I don't know.

00:04:11.000 Is that a new truck?

00:04:12.000 And like...

00:04:14.000 I just remember how ironic it was because I had told Eddie about Bling Bling.

00:04:19.000 You know, like, this is all this guy cares about and wants to talk about.

00:04:22.000 And then he did that while we were out there.

00:04:24.000 But I remember thinking, man, how weird would it be if all of a sudden clouds from jet engines Started appearing and it just appeared right before our eyes and we hadn't noticed it.

00:04:36.000 But I wasn't sold.

00:04:38.000 It didn't make any sense to me.

00:04:40.000 Because my thought on it was the amount of people that had to be involved.

00:04:43.000 You're talking about all these different airplanes.

00:04:45.000 Get all these people to keep their mouths shut.

00:04:46.000 These are...

00:04:47.000 They're pilots, right?

00:04:49.000 So they're not making shit tons of money. 0.70

00:04:51.000 And they live here, too. 0.84

00:04:52.000 That's the other thing.

00:04:53.000 Like, if they're actually spraying something in the sky, they live here, too.

00:04:57.000 Like, what are they spraying themselves?

00:04:58.000 Well, the theory now is that it's basically the power elite in the country is doing these chemtrails as a kind of last-ditch attempt to maintain power before the entire world collapses into chaos.

00:05:11.000 So they think it's kind of like a desperate situation.

00:05:14.000 A power grab.

00:05:15.000 Well, not exactly.

00:05:17.000 They're hanging on to have their kind of last hurrah.

00:05:20.000 Really, they feel like the end of the world is nigh.

00:05:22.000 There's about to be this environmental disaster, and the chemtrails are the only thing that is holding everything together.

00:05:29.000 That's the thing that you get if you go to Geoengineering Watch, that Dane Whittington guy.

00:05:34.000 He's basically an apocalyptic prophet now.

00:05:38.000 He's basically preaching about how everything is going to end soon and the chemtrails are the only thing that's stopping it.

00:05:46.000 They're also making it worse.

00:05:48.000 So he's kind of saying the chemtrails are helping, but we've got to stop them, otherwise they'll make it even worse.

00:05:54.000 But we're pretty much all going to die either way.

00:05:56.000 Yeah, there's a lot of money and we're gonna die.

00:05:59.000 There's a lot of people that love that that that trope it's just like something that gets carted out Constantly throughout history because it's true.

00:06:07.000 You are going to die It's like when are you gonna die?

00:06:10.000 You don't know so because you don't know you're freaking out like is it gonna be a car accident?

00:06:14.000 Is it gonna be a fire?

00:06:15.000 Is it gonna be an earthquake?

00:06:16.000 It's gonna be a slow aging death or is it gonna be the chemtrails?

00:06:21.000 Yeah, I think that type of thing, like fear of dying, is one of those fundamental things.

00:06:25.000 Every human is hardwired with certain things that happens in their brain without them thinking about.

00:06:32.000 And fear of dying and fear of other things, fear of wolves or whatever, something that's hardwired.

00:06:38.000 And that's the type of thing that leads to different types of thinking.

00:06:43.000 You end up being a conspiracy theorist in part because your brain is wired that way.

00:06:48.000 You had a great quote about chemtrails when we did that television show together.

00:06:52.000 You said chemtrails are like the training wheels for conspiracy theorists.

00:06:57.000 Yeah.

00:06:57.000 Because they're like there.

00:06:58.000 They're right above your head and you see them right there.

00:07:01.000 For people who don't understand why jets produce clouds, please explain that because it's very simple.

00:07:09.000 It is very simple.

00:07:11.000 Jet engines have water in their exhaust.

00:07:15.000 If you look at a car on a cold day and you see the exhaust coming out of the tailpipe, you'll see like a cloud of condensation sometimes and you'll see some water coming out.

00:07:23.000 And the exact same thing happens with jet engines.

00:07:28.000 And when that exhaust hits the cold air, it condenses, it freezes, it makes a cloud.

00:07:33.000 And contrails are essentially clouds.

00:07:35.000 They're exactly the same physically as a regular cirrus cloud.

00:07:39.000 And it's dependent upon the amount of moisture in the atmosphere, and you can actually monitor it online.

00:07:44.000 NASA actually has a website that will show you, and I believe it's set up for pilots, right?

00:07:50.000 Air traffic people?

00:07:52.000 NASA actually has a contrail forecasting site.

00:07:55.000 It isn't really for pilots or anything.

00:07:57.000 It's just part of their contrail research.

00:08:00.000 But yeah, they have a site where it'll predict where the contrails are going to be.

00:08:03.000 But you can do it yourself.

00:08:03.000 You've just got to look at the relative humidity at a certain altitude.

00:08:07.000 There's lots of different sites you can go to.

00:08:08.000 I've got a whole bunch of them listed on Metabunk.

00:08:11.000 And just like the clouds vary in the sky, the amount of moisture varies in the sky as well, which is one of the reasons why you will see a jet pass through one area and you will see a contrail, and then it almost looks like they shut the contrail jets off,

00:08:27.000 and then you see it pick up maybe a couple hundred yards later.

00:08:30.000 Yeah, and that's, when you say like a cloud, it's really exactly the same as a cloud.

00:08:35.000 If you look at any picture of a cloudy day and then just remove all the clouds, but they're still there as invisible clouds, then when the plane comes along, it's almost like the plane is this magic pen revealing these invisible clouds, because all a cloud is is a region of the sky where the humidity is above a certain level.

00:08:54.000 So you know that the humidity is pretty patchy across the sky because there's a cloud here and right next to it there's no clouds.

00:09:00.000 So where the cloud is, it's high humidity.

00:09:02.000 Where the cloud isn't, it's low humidity.

00:09:04.000 But if both of those were just lowered, like 10%, then you'd get no clouds at all.

00:09:09.000 Then a plane comes along, it raises the humidity in the cloud area and in the non-cloud area.

00:09:15.000 But this area, because it was a bit higher, you get a trail forming and this area you get no trail forming.

00:09:19.000 So it's exactly the same as invisible clouds.

00:09:23.000 Yeah, and for people that are watching it, and you're looking up, you think they're spraying something, if you're conspiracy-minded.

00:09:30.000 And because of a lot of the videos that are out there, in particular, two that were recommended to me are, what in the hell are they spraying?

00:09:38.000 So I got to meet with that guy that made those documentaries, and right away, I knew something was wrong.

00:09:44.000 Like, he's either on Adderall or something.

00:09:46.000 He's just, like, real...

00:09:49.000 Real edgy and speeded up and just an odd guy, which is like a lot of people that are conspiratorially minded.

00:09:58.000 They seem to be very nervous and agitated.

00:10:02.000 And when we went over why he thinks, one of the things he was talking about was the soil samples and water samples.

00:10:09.000 And that they've detected all this aluminum and barium in water, and particularly aluminum.

00:10:17.000 And he's showing me all these results that he had.

00:10:20.000 But even in the very results that he showed me, it said sludge.

00:10:23.000 Like he had sent them out for testing.

00:10:25.000 And I said, well, what did you send?

00:10:27.000 And he goes, well, I sent some water from these ponds.

00:10:30.000 And I said, but it says sludge on your testing.

00:10:34.000 And he said, no, but it was water.

00:10:35.000 I go, okay, but the lab said it's sludge.

00:10:38.000 I go, what is sludge?

00:10:39.000 He goes, well, I don't know what sludge is exactly.

00:10:41.000 I go, well, let's look.

00:10:42.000 Sludge is a combination of water and dirt.

00:10:45.000 Okay, so you sent water and dirt.

00:10:47.000 So do you know that aluminum is one of the most common metals on Earth?

00:10:52.000 And you could basically scoop up a patch of dirt pretty much anywhere and find a bunch of aluminum in it.

00:10:57.000 It's really, really common in trace amounts.

00:11:00.000 I go, so what you did...

00:11:03.000 Is you tested dirt, and it tested positive for being dirt.

00:11:07.000 Exactly.

00:11:08.000 That's exactly what it is.

00:11:09.000 And the guy was kind of freaking out.

00:11:10.000 I'm like, how did you not put this together yourself?

00:11:14.000 Like, if you're the guy who's making this video, and you're trying to find a reason why you could, you know, some facts that you could throw at people.

00:11:22.000 We could say, hey, look, the government is definitely spraying things in the sky. 0.51

00:11:24.000 They're spraying aluminum.

00:11:25.000 Look, we found the aluminum, and we found it in the water.

00:11:29.000 It's in your water supply.

00:11:30.000 It's going to get in your body.

00:11:31.000 It's going to poison you.

00:11:31.000 Look, we found it in the water.

00:11:33.000 How the fuck did he not look at it himself, is what I was thinking. 0.97

00:11:37.000 And when me and him were having this conversation, I realized, like, you have these people that go down—they're not open-minded in regards to these subjects. 0.99

00:11:46.000 They go down a very narrow road, and that road is, the government is doing something to me.

00:11:53.000 I need to find out what it is.

00:11:55.000 Yeah, and they're really motivated to actually find evidence.

00:11:57.000 Yes.

00:11:57.000 So they're trying to find something, and actually trying to find an alternative explanation isn't really that attractive to them.

00:12:04.000 So they find aluminum in the water or in the soil or whatever, and then they glom onto that as being evidence of geoengineering, and that's great for them because they can just find loads and loads of samples of soil.

00:12:16.000 And that's something that gets repeated online, that very fact over and over again, the aluminum that they found in the water.

00:12:22.000 It's one of the core tenets.

00:12:24.000 It's one of the pillars of the chemtrail thing.

00:12:26.000 There's like four or five different things.

00:12:29.000 In every conspiracy theory, there are these core beliefs that 99% of the people who believe in the theory have.

00:12:37.000 One core belief is that you work for the government.

00:12:39.000 Yeah.

00:12:39.000 That is a core belief.

00:12:42.000 Mick is a retired video game creator.

00:12:45.000 You could find that out.

00:12:46.000 Made video games.

00:12:48.000 That's right.

00:12:48.000 Tony Hawk.

00:12:49.000 Yeah. 0.98

00:12:49.000 Made a shit ton of money and decided to debunk dorks. 0.98

00:12:55.000 Yeah, it didn't start out. 0.98

00:12:58.000 And I wouldn't refer to them as dorks. 0.98

00:13:00.000 I'm saying they're dorks. 0.99

00:13:02.000 They're dorks if they don't believe. 1.00

00:13:04.000 This is the problem. 0.99

00:13:05.000 You're not a dork if you fall for something. 0.97

00:13:08.000 You're a dork if you fall for something and you don't believe the science that shows that it's impossible, that it's not real. 0.99

00:13:14.000 If you were spraying aluminum in the sky, folks, it would look like aluminum, you dummy. 0.99

00:13:19.000 It wouldn't look like a cloud.

00:13:20.000 It wouldn't dissipate.

00:13:22.000 It would look like a thin mist, essentially.

00:13:24.000 Yeah, and metal is not.

00:13:25.000 It's heavier than... 1.00

00:13:27.000 Fucking air and vapor. 0.98

00:13:28.000 It's not it's not gonna just sit up there like that It would it would be a very different experience It would slowly settle to the ground and wouldn't look like a cloud and there's no reason to do it There's no benefit whatsoever. 0.99

00:13:39.000 There's no scientific evidence Ever uncovered ever that there's any benefit for anybody of spraying aluminum over people.

00:13:46.000 It's just It's a waste of aluminum.

00:13:49.000 That's the thing, even with the whole geoengineering field, there's really no solid evidence that it will work.

00:13:55.000 We don't know what the side effects will be.

00:13:57.000 We don't know how much we would need to spray, and we don't know, like, you know, when we stop doing it, will the world bounce back in a terrible way and it'll be a big disaster.

00:14:07.000 Well, that's an interesting thing because one of the reasons why contrails are interesting to study is because they actually do have an effect on the temperature of the Earth.

00:14:17.000 And this is something that we found out after 9-11.

00:14:20.000 When September 11th happened in 2001, it was the big disaster, there was a shutdown on all flights in the United States.

00:14:30.000 And when they did that, the temperature changed.

00:14:34.000 Because these clouds literally do provide like a cover and do they act as an insulator or an escalator?

00:14:45.000 They essentially act as an insulator.

00:14:47.000 They block incoming radiation during the day and they block outgoing radiation at night.

00:14:54.000 But the net effect is that they actually block more outgoing radiation than they do incoming radiation.

00:15:00.000 So if planes didn't fly at night, then you would cool the earth down.

00:15:06.000 You'd have to stop flying quite a bit before night time.

00:15:10.000 So if all the flights in the world were between like 5am and 5pm local time, then you could actually cool the world down by just not having any flights at night because it's the night flights that have this really big kind of blanketing effect that stopped the outgoing radiation.

00:15:24.000 So the night of flights actually heat the world up.

00:15:27.000 Yes, they do.

00:15:28.000 They act like a blanket.

00:15:30.000 You know how it's warmer on a, well, in a cloudy day, like it doesn't get as cold at night.

00:15:36.000 You know, deserts get really cold at night because there's nothing over them.

00:15:38.000 They don't have any cover.

00:15:40.000 That's one of the reasons, but...

00:15:42.000 Yeah, the contrails will actually warm the planet because the amount of outgoing radiation they block is just way higher because of the wavelengths and the size of the particles and whatnot.

00:15:56.000 So that's something to be concerned about.

00:15:58.000 That's something that people are legitimately monitoring.

00:16:02.000 What people need to understand is just because you feel like when you look up in the sky and you see these crisscross patterns that they're spraying you.

00:16:08.000 No one's spraying you.

00:16:10.000 This is just a natural reaction to jet engines and condensation in the atmosphere and the heat and the moisture of the jet engine.

00:16:19.000 That's all it is.

00:16:20.000 They are actually talking about a way of using contrails for a kind of geoengineering.

00:16:24.000 And this is something that people often get confused about because you see these two words together, contrails and geoengineering, and they think, oh, that's chemtrails.

00:16:31.000 But what they're trying to do is use air traffic control and computers and weather forecasting to make it so the planes don't fly through the contrail-forming areas when they would make contrails at night and make it so they do fly through contrail-forming areas with contrails during the day.

00:16:49.000 So this is a conversation they're having or something that's actually being...

00:16:52.000 It's not something that they've actually done, but it's something that they can research fairly easily.

00:16:57.000 So if they were considering trying to heat up the atmosphere or heat up the earth at night, they would just fly over these moisture-rich areas, and if they weren't, they would avoid them.

00:17:08.000 Yeah.

00:17:08.000 But the goal, obviously, is to combat climate change, global warming, and cool the Earth down.

00:17:14.000 So a relatively cheap way of doing that, to a degree, is to have these planes be controlled by computers.

00:17:23.000 And it increases fuel costs for the airline by about 2% or 3% because they have to make very deviations, sometimes in height and sometimes in direction.

00:17:33.000 But it could actually have a significant effect on the Earth's climate if we had the entire world's airline fleets all in this program where they would fly, making controls where they were needed and not making controls where they were not needed.

00:17:45.000 And how exactly are they monitoring the moisture content of the atmosphere?

00:17:48.000 Like, what are they using to do that?

00:17:49.000 Satellites?

00:17:50.000 Yeah, it's a combination of things.

00:17:52.000 They use sounding balloons, which are these weather balloons, basically, which got mistaken for UFOs quite a lot.

00:17:59.000 And they use satellites, and they use planes sensing the environment when they're flying through it.

00:18:04.000 And they use all these inputs, and it goes into a big computer model, which basically predicts what the humidity will be at any particular point.

00:18:14.000 It's basically a big weather forecast for the upper atmosphere.

00:18:16.000 Now, Jamie, Google CIA admits geoengineering, because this is one that the chemtrail believers constantly bring up.

00:18:28.000 It was a conversation that some guy in the CIA had at some meeting where they were discussing potential future ways to use geoengineering.

00:18:41.000 Like, let's play with this guy has.

00:18:43.000 CI Director John Brennan.

00:18:46.000 Go ahead.

00:18:46.000 ...often referred to collectively as geoengineering, that potentially could help reverse the warming effects of global climate change.

00:18:54.000 One that has gained my personal attention is stratospheric aerosol injection, or SAI, a method of seeding the stratosphere with particles that can help reflect the sun's heat in much the same way that volcanic eruptions do.

00:19:15.000 Why is that freaking out with the image and keep changing back to?

00:19:19.000 It's a YouTube glitch.

00:19:20.000 I have to refresh the page.

00:19:22.000 I didn't want to restart the video.

00:19:23.000 Oh, just go ahead.

00:19:23.000 Because I'm going to have epilepsy.

00:19:29.000 Hold on.

00:19:29.000 Go ahead.

00:19:30.000 Just take it from where he left it and hear what else he has to say.

00:19:32.000 Okay.

00:19:35.000 A method of seeding the stratosphere with particles that can help reflect the sun's heat in much the same way that volcanic eruptions do.

00:19:43.000 An SAI program could limit global temperature increases, reducing some risks associated with higher temperatures and providing the world economy additional time to transition from fossil fuels.

00:19:56.000 This process is also relatively inexpensive.

00:19:58.000 The National Research Council estimates that a fully deployed SAI program would cost about $10 billion yearly.

00:20:05.000 As promising as it may be, moving forward on SAI would also raise a number of challenges for our government and for the international community.

00:20:13.000 On the technical side, greenhouse gas emission reductions would still have to accompany SAI to address other climate change effects such as ocean acidification because SAI alone would not remove greenhouse gases from the atmosphere.

00:20:27.000 On the geopolitical side, the technology's potential to alter weather patterns and benefit certain regions of the world at the expense of other regions could trigger sharp opposition by some nations.

00:20:41.000 Others might seize on SAI's benefits and back away from their commitment to carbon dioxide reductions.

00:20:47.000 And as with other breakthrough technologies, global norms and standards are lacking to guide the deployment and implementation of SAI and others.

00:20:56.000 We get it.

00:20:57.000 So, this guy is talking about an idea of spraying things in the atmosphere to do something.

00:21:07.000 Yeah, he's talking about geoengineering, spraying stuff from planes.

00:21:10.000 He's talking about reflective particles, right?

00:21:13.000 Isn't that the idea?

00:21:14.000 Yeah, you spray sulfur dioxide, which isn't exactly a reflective particle, but it acts like a nucleus for upper atmosphere, clouds and things like that.

00:21:24.000 It's basically, like he said, the same thing a volcano does.

00:21:27.000 When a volcano erupts, it spews a whole bunch of sulfur dioxide and various other things into the upper atmosphere.

00:21:33.000 And that creates haze, basically, which blocks the incoming radiation and cools things down.

00:21:40.000 Every time a big volcano goes off, you see a little dip in the Earth's temperature because of this blocking effect that it has.

00:21:48.000 And so the theory is that you could do something similar, and you could do it by spraying things out of planes.

00:21:53.000 But he's talking about things that we might do in the future.

00:21:57.000 He uses the future tense, like we could do this, we may do this, the effects might be this.

00:22:03.000 And he's talking about the possible geopolitical impacts of it, which are very significant.

00:22:09.000 Like if one country is going to be spraying something that would cause, say, the monsoons to double in intensity or to halve in intensity in India...

00:22:19.000 That could cause the deaths of millions of people from famine and flooding.

00:22:24.000 This is what people think has happened with the big hurricanes in the United States.

00:22:28.000 They do think that.

00:22:29.000 There's no evidence of that actually happening.

00:22:32.000 The pattern of hurricanes is pretty much the same as it's been for a long time.

00:22:36.000 When you look at the statistical variations, there's maybe a bit more intense because the oceans are a bit warmer.

00:22:44.000 People think that hurricanes have been steered Yeah, I've heard that one.

00:22:50.000 Through HAARP. Yeah, through HAARP. That doesn't make any sense.

00:22:53.000 But there are ways that do make sense, which are cloud seeding.

00:22:57.000 Like if you do lots of seeding of the hurricane on one side, you could perhaps reduce the amount of humidity, of moisture on that side.

00:23:07.000 And so it'll kind of turn a little bit more and move over to one side.

00:23:10.000 So there are ways that It might work.

00:23:13.000 And they did actually experiment with this, I think back in the 70s or so.

00:23:17.000 There was one experiment where they tried seeding a hurricane, but it ended up going somewhere else other than where they intended it, and it destroyed a whole bunch of houses.

00:23:27.000 The problem with having a video like this is that this guy is admitting that they have looked into potentially spraying things into the air.

00:23:37.000 No one has ever denied We've been looking into geoengineering for decades.

00:23:42.000 It's been proposed in some sense for over 100 years, in a serious sense since the 70s.

00:23:49.000 The other problem is he gave it initials.

00:23:52.000 S-A-I. That's a problem. 0.98

00:23:54.000 People love initials.

00:23:55.000 They love it.

00:23:57.000 It makes them super excited.

00:23:58.000 Well, most people use the SRM, which is the solar radiation management system.

00:24:04.000 Oh, that's a good one, too.

00:24:07.000 SRM, SAI, CIA, DEA. People love those.

00:24:11.000 That sounds more scary than SRM, I think.

00:24:14.000 Strategic aerosol injection.

00:24:16.000 Yeah.

00:24:17.000 But there would have to be studies.

00:24:20.000 Oh, there are studies.

00:24:22.000 There are lots of studies going on right now.

00:24:24.000 People are studying geoengineering.

00:24:26.000 There's actually lots of people who specialize in geoengineering.

00:24:29.000 What I was going to say is those studies would have to be available for people to understand, but nobody wants to do that.

00:24:34.000 Nobody wants to go in.

00:24:35.000 You want to look up and see the thing behind the jet and go, they started it, they're spraying, there's patchwork, look, there's haze all over us, which it does happen.

00:24:43.000 You can have a clear sky and you have the right conditions and a bunch of jets fly over and all of a sudden it's very hazy.

00:24:48.000 It does.

00:24:49.000 And that's the type of thing that's been reported since the Second World War or even earlier.

00:24:53.000 The first contrails that were spreading out into clouds were reported in the 1920s.

00:24:57.000 Yeah, well, I took some of these photos and I put them up, I think the last time we had this conversation, where you could see them from World War II. You could see these jets, and you see the contrails behind the jets.

00:25:09.000 But that's the other thing.

00:25:11.000 It's like contrails dissipate, but chemtrails stay.

00:25:15.000 Well, you misunderstand what happens.

00:25:19.000 The contrails stay if there's more moisture.

00:25:22.000 If the conditions are correct, they stay.

00:25:25.000 And if the conditions are barely enough to make a contrail, they dissipate fairly rapidly.

00:25:29.000 With that thing, they kind of use circular logic.

00:25:32.000 If you ask them, why do you think that contrails dissipate and chemtrails stay?

00:25:36.000 And they say, because I can see it.

00:25:38.000 If you look up, you look at the chemtrails, and they're staying, and the contrails are dissipating.

00:25:42.000 How do you know which is which?

00:25:43.000 Well, the contrails are the ones that dissipate.

00:25:46.000 So they don't have any basis for their belief.

00:25:49.000 And the one thing I do, which you've probably seen, is that video where I go through all my old books on the weather, and I look up in each one of them, the section on contrails, and I read the bit in it that says contrails persist for hours sometimes, contrails sometimes spread out to cover the sky,

00:26:06.000 contrails last a long time.

00:26:08.000 And I go back from these books from the 1990s all the way back to the 1950s, and I've got books in the 1940s.

00:26:16.000 And if you show people these actual books, it's a really powerful way of getting through to them because they've just assumed that contrails can't persist.

00:26:25.000 Right.

00:26:26.000 And they've assumed that this is a recent phenomenon because they don't remember it, because they weren't paying attention.

00:26:31.000 Yeah.

00:26:32.000 Well, 90% of the people don't notice contrails until they hear about the chemtrail conspiracy theory.

00:26:40.000 A lot of people, they will hear about it, and then the same day, they will go outside and look at the sky, and then that's the first time they've ever noticed these contrails.

00:26:48.000 Even the people who are high-ups in the chemtrail movement, they only notice them when they hear about the theory.

00:26:59.000 There's a guy...

00:27:01.000 I can't remember his name now, but he lives in San Diego and he never noticed them until like 2014. And he lived there all his life.

00:27:07.000 And now he's publishing scientific papers.

00:27:10.000 J. Marvin Herndon is his name.

00:27:12.000 He's publishing these scientific papers about how the spraying coal ash, the waste products of burning coal in power stations, the spraying that in the upper atmosphere.

00:27:20.000 He's actually got like three or four papers published.

00:27:23.000 In these kind of pay-to-publish scientific journals.

00:27:27.000 And that's kind of becoming a bit of a problem.

00:27:30.000 Like this thing with Brennan, the CIA guy.

00:27:34.000 People bring that up all the time.

00:27:35.000 All the time.

00:27:36.000 All the time.

00:27:36.000 And you just have to explain it to them again.

00:27:39.000 He's talking about the future use.

00:27:42.000 And then this guy...

00:27:43.000 Well, he's talking about possible solutions.

00:27:47.000 For global warming.

00:27:48.000 Yeah.

00:27:49.000 Now, the problem with it is, when he's talking about possible solutions, and then people look up and they see these actual clouds that are created by jets, they assume this has already begun, that the government would not tell us about it.

00:28:01.000 Right.

00:28:02.000 That's because they don't understand contrails.

00:28:04.000 The difference between contrails and what this stuff would look like.

00:28:07.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:28:08.000 And just the fact that contrails look like this.

00:28:11.000 They heard that contrails shouldn't persist.

00:28:14.000 Well, another thing that drove me crazy is like if you really want to worry about health consequences of...

00:28:20.000 These things that you see in the sky.

00:28:23.000 There's a reality to it.

00:28:25.000 The reality is they're burning jet fuel.

00:28:28.000 And all the people that live around airports get sick.

00:28:32.000 There's high levels of respiratory illness that are associated with living within a certain distance of airplanes or airports.

00:28:40.000 If you are in a congested hub like LAX, Don't buy a house like a block away.

00:28:45.000 It's not good for your health.

00:28:47.000 They're burning jet fuel that's going to get in the air.

00:28:49.000 It's pollution.

00:28:50.000 It's pollution.

00:28:51.000 From a car.

00:28:52.000 Yeah.

00:28:52.000 But it's even more intense because you're having thousands and thousands of giant planes.

00:28:57.000 Even small airports like Santa Monica, they have problems with that.

00:29:00.000 If you look at the houses just at the end of Santa Monica runway, which is right next to the end of the runway, there's these houses.

00:29:07.000 They did tests for various metal particulars and stuff, and the ones right by the end of the runway...

00:29:12.000 You know, they get pollution.

00:29:14.000 Of course.

00:29:15.000 It's very real problems.

00:29:16.000 That's the real problem.

00:29:17.000 And that's a real one.

00:29:18.000 Now, imagine if that was something that the government was engineering.

00:29:21.000 If they really were engineering, spraying things to give people respiratory illness so that the hospital industry could...

00:29:29.000 Profit.

00:29:30.000 Whatever the reason was.

00:29:32.000 That would be something that people could be concerned with.

00:29:35.000 Like, look, there's a real connection between airplanes and illnesses.

00:29:39.000 But it's not spraying stuff in the sky.

00:29:41.000 That's not real.

00:29:42.000 I understand people love these things, and I understand people don't trust the government.

00:29:47.000 Those things completely make sense to me.

00:29:50.000 But you've got to pay attention to what's real and what's not real.

00:29:53.000 Because as soon as you don't do that, then all the real stuff that the government does, all the real stuff the government does, like these fucking roads they're going to build in Alaska right now through dangerous areas where they have salmon rivers, they're going to start doing mining.

00:30:08.000 I think, what is the Pebble Beach? 0.90

00:30:10.000 Is that the...

00:30:11.000 No.

00:30:12.000 What is the big mining issue in Alaska that is going on right now Bristol Bay.

00:30:20.000 Bristol Bay?

00:30:21.000 That's it.

00:30:22.000 Why don't I... Pebble and Bristol.

00:30:24.000 I don't know how I got those two confused.

00:30:25.000 Pebble Mine?

00:30:26.000 Pebble Mine.

00:30:27.000 That's what it is.

00:30:28.000 And they want to do this, and it's near a major salmon area where these salmon use this river, and people that live there are terrified that they're going to do this.

00:30:39.000 This is a real for-profit...

00:30:42.000 Thing where they're putting the environment at risk.

00:30:46.000 That's real.

00:30:46.000 So this is something that people should be concerned about.

00:30:49.000 But they're not.

00:30:50.000 They don't get concerned about those kind of things.

00:30:52.000 You know, environmentalists do and, you know, conservationists do.

00:30:55.000 But the conspiracy theorists don't.

00:30:57.000 They don't look at that and go, hey, here's clear evidence of the government being in bed with enormous businesses that stand to profit spectacular amounts of money.

00:31:08.000 From risking the environment and risking these very delicate salmon fisheries.

00:31:13.000 Yeah, and that type of thing is the exact reason why I still spend so much time debunking stuff like conspiracy theories.

00:31:20.000 Because I think that so much of conspiracy theories, the effect of conspiracy theories is distracting people from real issues.

00:31:28.000 From real issues.

00:31:29.000 Yes, I agree.

00:31:30.000 Like you say with the airplane stuff, like if people are thinking they're spraying chemicals out of the back of the airplanes, they're just not going to be worried about...

00:31:39.000 Right.

00:31:39.000 Regular pollution.

00:31:41.000 And if they think that they're controlling the climate already, they're not going to worry about any type of global warming.

00:31:47.000 So let's find one that we disagree on.

00:31:50.000 I think you believe the official story of the JFK assassination, do you?

00:31:55.000 More or less, yes.

00:31:55.000 More or less.

00:31:57.000 My belief, and this changes over time, I think that Lee Harvey Oswald was in on it.

00:32:04.000 I think he was a part of it.

00:32:05.000 But I think there were multiple people that were in on it.

00:32:08.000 That's what I believe.

00:32:09.000 Do you think there are multiple shooters?

00:32:10.000 Yes.

00:32:11.000 And one of the reasons why I believe that is because of the formation of the single bullet theory.

00:32:15.000 And the single bullet theory was formed because the fact that they had to account for one bullet that hit the underpass, ricocheted off, and put some man in the hospital.

00:32:25.000 And that before that they did not have an explanation for why all of these bullets, bullet holes, all these wounds were in all these different people's bodies.

00:32:35.000 The other reason why I'm inclined to believe there's a conspiracy was the fact that they found that bullet on Connelly's gurney when they brought him into the hospital.

00:32:43.000 It's too convenient and the bullet itself is fairly pristine.

00:32:47.000 Now knowing as much as I know about bullets from personal experience of hunting, You can't hit anything with a bullet.

00:32:53.000 I pulled a lot of bullets out of animals.

00:32:55.000 When you shoot an animal and you hit bone, those bullets, they distort brutally.

00:33:01.000 I mean, they don't look like that if they go through two people and hit all sorts of bone.

00:33:06.000 That's the bullet that came out of Connelly's body, or Connelly's gurney, excuse me.

00:33:11.000 And that's the bullet that they're attributing to this single bullet theory.

00:33:15.000 If you look at the path of the bullet, That goes through Kennedy and then goes through Connolly.

00:33:22.000 That, to me, is not unbelievable.

00:33:25.000 It's not unbelievable.

00:33:26.000 That one is.

00:33:27.000 You've got to look at the other one.

00:33:28.000 But even that one.

00:33:30.000 See what I'm saying?

00:33:31.000 Even that one is not unbelievable.

00:33:33.000 It is believable to me because I know that bullets do strange things when they hit things.

00:33:37.000 Right, but you've got to combine that with the fact that the bullet came out fairly pristine, which means it didn't actually go through a kind of a bouncy path like that.

00:33:44.000 Right.

00:33:45.000 It went through a straight path.

00:33:46.000 This diagram is from...

00:33:48.000 A conspiracy theorist.

00:33:49.000 Yes, essentially.

00:33:50.000 But the thing is...

00:33:51.000 There are other diagrams that will show the actual path with him.

00:33:54.000 Like, you know, they've got their butts there on the same level, and you know that Kennedy was actually sitting above Conley.

00:33:58.000 He was elevated, yeah.

00:33:59.000 Yes.

00:34:00.000 So, see if we can find one that has the actual seating arrangement or more accurate seating.

00:34:07.000 The one right there with the red line on the right hand side.

00:34:09.000 The one on the right hand side, that's a more accurate...

00:34:12.000 From above, yeah.

00:34:13.000 Yeah, from above.

00:34:15.000 There's also the fact that there was particles, there was more metallic particles from the bullets, more fragments from the bullet in Connelly's body than were missing from the bullet.

00:34:28.000 I do not believe that was the bullet and I think that that is a very reasonable assumption.

00:34:32.000 Well, you know what you should do. 0.94

00:34:33.000 You should get one of those guns, get the same bullets, get some ballistic dummies with some bones inside and start shooting. 0.98

00:34:39.000 They've already done that. 0.93

00:34:40.000 Yeah, Penn and Teller did that.

00:34:42.000 Yeah, but some people have done it and they have found...

00:34:45.000 Pretty close to what actually happened.

00:34:46.000 No, they didn't.

00:34:47.000 Within the round.

00:34:48.000 No, no.

00:34:49.000 Every bullet that hit bone got distorted.

00:34:51.000 That's just what happens.

00:34:53.000 When you shoot those bullets into water or you shoot those bullets into like fluff or something like that that doesn't have a lot of impact to slow the bullet down, then you get a bullet that looks like that.

00:35:04.000 If you shoot a bullet into bone, they distort wildly.

00:35:07.000 But the bone was the last thing that it hit.

00:35:08.000 But it doesn't matter.

00:35:09.000 It's still hitting bone.

00:35:11.000 But it stopped at that point.

00:35:12.000 Yeah, but didn't it hit bone in Kennedy's body as well?

00:35:16.000 It went through his neck, didn't it?

00:35:18.000 The odds of it hitting only soft tissue and it's going to go through his neck and it came out here that didn't clip one of his vertebrae or something like that, I don't think that's real.

00:35:28.000 I think also there's a difference between, and this is fact, from David Lifton's book, Best Evidence, which was a book by an accountant who went over the Warren Commission report and found all these factual inaccuracies and all these contradictions.

00:35:46.000 He found that there was a difference in the autopsy report at Bethesda, Maryland, the Bethesda Naval Hospital, versus what they had reported on the scene in Dallas.

00:35:58.000 The first doctors that got a hold of Kennedy's body in Dallas before they flew him to Bethesda said that the hole in his neck was an entry wound.

00:36:07.000 When they got to Maryland, they changed that to a tracheotomy hole.

00:36:13.000 They changed the impact, and they said that this was not an impact from a bullet, that it was from something else.

00:36:21.000 Yeah, someone said they enlarged the hole to insert a trach tube.

00:36:26.000 Yeah, well, I think, well, there was also a lot of pressure on these people to try to wrap this up nice and tight and say that Lee Harvey Oswald was the shooter.

00:36:36.000 There was, yeah.

00:36:37.000 Yeah.

00:36:38.000 Yeah, there's this big thing about the CIA inventing the FBI? The FBI, well, inventing the term conspiracy theory was a CIA thing.

00:36:47.000 I think it was the CIA. Yeah.

00:36:48.000 And this was a couple of years after the assassination.

00:36:52.000 There was a memo that went out where they were concerned about all these conspiracy theories that were coming out.

00:36:57.000 And they used the term conspiracy theories and then they said they should try to basically debunk them and make the people who...

00:37:09.000 Right.

00:37:10.000 Right.

00:37:12.000 Right.

00:37:37.000 Did you see the most recent dump of information on the Kennedy assassination that Jack Ruby had stated to people that before the day of the Kennedy assassination, keep an eye out today, there's gonna be fireworks?

00:37:50.000 I didn't see that.

00:37:51.000 Yeah, there was Jack Ruby who eventually wound up shooting Lee Harvey Oswald in front of the police officers.

00:37:57.000 Yeah.

00:37:57.000 Something like that.

00:38:00.000 He's dead, obviously, so you can't ask him what he actually meant.

00:38:04.000 And things like that take on a special significance after an event.

00:38:08.000 True.

00:38:09.000 Whereas he could be just talking about he was going to go visit his ex-wife or something, or he was going to go to the bar, or he was looking forward to shouting at the parade or whatever.

00:38:17.000 Right.

00:38:17.000 Could have been nothing.

00:38:18.000 People say things, and after something happens, people go back and they look at everything that happened, and then they say, well, that sounds like something significant.

00:38:25.000 Right.

00:38:26.000 Like with the Vegas shooting, there was a woman walking around the crowd in the Vegas shooting saying, you know, you're all going to die.

00:38:34.000 This is what some people said.

00:38:36.000 And this was like half an hour before the actual shooting itself.

00:38:40.000 So people take that event and then, you know, since a lot of people did die, they think that this woman actually knew what was going to happen and she was trying to warn people.

00:38:50.000 Right.

00:38:51.000 But you also get crazy people wandering around saying things all the time, especially in Vegas.

00:38:56.000 Yeah, and the problem with you're all going to die is that that's a common one.

00:39:01.000 Some guy was yelling that.

00:39:02.000 We took pictures of him when we were in Vegas long before the shooting.

00:39:05.000 It was a few months ago.

00:39:08.000 We were in a car, and he was standing on the corner, and he had a stack of signs.

00:39:14.000 I put it up on my Instagram.

00:39:15.000 I know I did.

00:39:17.000 Because there were stacks of signs.

00:39:20.000 He had not just one sign, but he had a long totem pole of signs with all these different things.

00:39:25.000 And I was taking photos of it, and the guy was yelling out, everyone's going to die.

00:39:29.000 I mean, he was yelling it out.

00:39:31.000 God's wrath and all this crazy religious stuff. 0.98

00:39:34.000 That's a common thing for crazy people to shout. 0.98

00:39:36.000 Yes. 0.81

00:39:36.000 That's what they do show. 0.81

00:39:37.000 It's not like this woman was saying specifically, someone is going to shoot everyone at this concert, get out of here, this is a dangerous area.

00:39:45.000 If she was trying to warn them, she would have been a bit more specific.

00:39:47.000 Yes, very specific, right?

00:39:49.000 If she knew something.

00:39:51.000 Do you find it?

00:39:52.000 No?

00:39:52.000 I know I put it up there, because we were mocking it.

00:39:55.000 Maybe I put it on my Instagram story and it went away.

00:39:57.000 I don't think so, though.

00:39:59.000 I think it's there from...

00:40:00.000 I want to say...

00:40:03.000 I want to say it was at least six months ago. 0.99

00:40:05.000 But we were mocking this guy because we're like, this guy's got a lot of fucking signs. 0.98

00:40:08.000 Like, one sign's not enough. 1.00

00:40:10.000 I go, this is the guy, this is the reason why Twitter only has 140 characters for motherfuckers like this. 0.98

00:40:14.000 I think I remember it was like July because it was like 120 degrees out too, wasn't it? 0.99

00:40:18.000 Yes, it was very hot. 0.99

00:40:19.000 This goofy asshole had this giant stack of signs. 1.00

00:40:24.000 So, back to the Kennedy thing. 1.00

00:40:26.000 What do you think happened?

00:40:27.000 Do you think that Lee Harvey Oswald probably acted alone?

00:40:29.000 I think he probably acted alone.

00:40:31.000 I think the physics of what happened is fairly consistent with the single shooter theory.

00:40:37.000 Now, admittedly, the magic bullet is a bit strange, but I don't think it's out of the rounds of possibilities.

00:40:46.000 I do.

00:40:47.000 Because of the fact of the metal particles.

00:40:49.000 There's more bullet fragments in Connelly's body than we're missing from that almost pristine bullet.

00:40:55.000 And even though the fact that it hit Connelly at the very end, if it went through all that flesh...

00:41:02.000 And it didn't hit any bone until it hit his wrist.

00:41:05.000 Then it would not have been compromised very much ballistically.

00:41:07.000 It would still be going incredibly fast.

00:41:09.000 It still would have smashed into that bone.

00:41:11.000 It did enough to break his wrist.

00:41:13.000 And it would have distorted the bullet.

00:41:14.000 That's just what happens with bullets.

00:41:16.000 See, unfortunately, I don't really follow JFK. Conspiracy very much and the reason I don't is that there are already like I think literally over a thousand books Mm-hmm.

00:41:26.000 I've read okay.

00:41:27.000 I've read a few um I've got into case closed.

00:41:31.000 That was a Vincent Bugliosi's book.

00:41:34.000 Is that who it was?

00:41:35.000 But I was like this guy's got an agenda.

00:41:37.000 It just didn't it There's many books that you could read about the Kennedy assassination, and some of them favor the conspiracy, and some of them favor the assassination.

00:41:48.000 I think a lot of them have merit on both sides.

00:41:52.000 One thing that drives me crazy was people say that you could never make that shot. 1.00

00:41:56.000 That's fucking bullshit. 1.00

00:41:58.000 That's bullshit. 1.00

00:41:59.000 This is why I know it's bullshit, because it was only like a couple hundred yards. 1.00

00:42:03.000 Like a couple hundred yards, shooting at something the size of a person's head is easy. 0.99

00:42:08.000 What about Jesse Ventura trying to do the three shots, getting three shots off?

00:42:13.000 He didn't know what he was doing.

00:42:15.000 Look, I mean, first of all, if you were used to that rifle and you practiced that, someone said, oh, the scope was off. 1.00

00:42:21.000 I think that's bullshit, too. 0.99

00:42:23.000 The reason why I think that's bullshit is because it's easy to knock a scope off. 1.00

00:42:26.000 You have to have a direct chain of evidence. 0.98

00:42:28.000 Between the time Lee Harvey Oswald had that scope shooting that rifle, the moment he shot that rifle, and then you have to hand it off to someone who checks the scope right then.

00:42:38.000 Because if you drop a rifle, the scope goes off.

00:42:42.000 Just drop it.

00:42:42.000 I've done that before.

00:42:43.000 I dropped a rifle once when I was hunting in Wisconsin and my scope was off by 6 inches at 100 yards.

00:42:49.000 Just dropping it.

00:42:50.000 So the idea that he could have never made that shot because the scope is off.

00:42:53.000 Scopes get adjusted.

00:42:55.000 That's what happens when you drop a scope.

00:42:57.000 They move.

00:42:58.000 That's the whole thing about ballistics.

00:43:00.000 You have to check them.

00:43:01.000 You go to the range.

00:43:02.000 You set up a lead sled.

00:43:04.000 You lay the rifle down so it's perfectly stable.

00:43:07.000 You squeeze off a shot.

00:43:09.000 You use the binoculars, you find out where the shot hit on the target, and then you adjust the scope.

00:43:13.000 They're adjustable.

00:43:14.000 So the idea that his scope was no good is crazy.

00:43:17.000 The idea that that shot was too far to make, insane.

00:43:20.000 I think it was less than 100 yards when they think he made the first shot, which is a chip shot.

00:43:25.000 That's a shot that you would make without even a rest.

00:43:27.000 Now he's making this shot resting on the window, so he's perfectly steady.

00:43:32.000 The idea that that was impossible is crazy.

00:43:34.000 The idea that no one can do that in three shots, that's been disproven.

00:43:38.000 Someone can do it.

00:43:39.000 Someone who's really good at reloading and loading can do it.

00:43:42.000 Just because Jesse Vendura couldn't do it.

00:43:44.000 But Jesse's super conspiracy minded.

00:43:47.000 He goes all in with the conspiracy theories.

00:43:50.000 That's the motivated reasoning part of things.

00:43:52.000 I don't know if he's doing it just for his show or because he really believes it.

00:43:56.000 I worked with the same people that did his show, the same people that did his show.

00:44:00.000 The reason why I did Joe Rogan Questions Everything is they wanted me to take over Jesse's show after he was done, and I was uninterested.

00:44:06.000 I was like, I'm not that guy.

00:44:09.000 I'm not like the I Believe Every Conspiracy guy.

00:44:12.000 I think people have a real weird vested interest in proving that things are a conspiracy.

00:44:19.000 I'm interested in finding out what things really are, like legitimately what they really are.

00:44:24.000 And even if I'm wrong, like I'm not interested in reinforcing things I've already said.

00:44:31.000 If I find out that what I said was wrong, I'm interested in repeating that I was wrong as many times as I can to get it out to as many people as I can.

00:44:38.000 Yeah, I'm with you.

00:44:39.000 Because I think it's important. 0.98

00:44:40.000 So this JFK thing, there's bullshit on both sides of it. 0.98

00:44:44.000 But the idea that this guy who went over to Russia, married a Russian citizen, came back here, was, I mean, he was absolutely involved in some shady, weird shit with Cuba. 1.00

00:44:54.000 He's a fucking weird guy. 0.99

00:44:56.000 Like, Lee Harvey Oswald was a weird guy. 1.00

00:44:58.000 The idea that he was completely innocent, I'm not buying that either.

00:45:01.000 I don't, yeah, I don't.

00:45:03.000 By the idea that it's proven that he acted entirely alone.

00:45:07.000 It's entirely possible that there are other people who are helping him or motivating him or giving him instructions even.

00:45:14.000 The thing I don't think is really proven is the additional shooter theory.

00:45:18.000 It's not proven.

00:45:20.000 And there have been people that said they heard things from behind them.

00:45:22.000 The problem with that is chaos.

00:45:24.000 When you have gunshots, first of all, gunshots in an area like Dealey Plaza.

00:45:30.000 Echoing.

00:45:31.000 Echoes ring out.

00:45:32.000 And people claim to see things and hear things.

00:45:34.000 They even believe themselves.

00:45:36.000 If you tell someone that you heard something in the bushes and then you run away, that person will say, I heard something in the bushes.

00:45:43.000 And then other people will repeat it.

00:45:45.000 It becomes the narrative and it just gets...

00:45:48.000 It's really hard.

00:45:49.000 You can create memories for people.

00:45:50.000 Yes, you can.

00:45:50.000 You can even point to somebody and say there is somebody there and they'll think there's somebody there later because the brain is so chaotically working, it forms memories in a very weird way.

00:46:01.000 Especially when it comes to something that's so significant, like the president getting shot or any sort of violent thing.

00:46:07.000 Now, this is something that gets repeated ad nauseum about 9-11.

00:46:11.000 It's something that people point to where they think that When the planes hit those buildings, that there was detonations that caused Tower 1 and Tower 2 to fall.

00:46:19.000 There's no way they would have fallen like that. 0.99

00:46:22.000 When people say, no, they heard things in the buildings, they heard explosions, people always say shit like that. 0.99

00:46:28.000 And on top of that, if you're dealing with a building collapsing like that, you're going to hear a lot of crazy shit. 0.99

00:46:34.000 Yeah. 0.97

00:46:35.000 Yeah, there are going to be explosions.

00:46:38.000 Things are falling.

00:46:39.000 There were people falling off the buildings.

00:46:42.000 Which goes to Tower 7. That's another one that keeps coming up.

00:46:45.000 See if you can find the video, Jamie.

00:46:48.000 There's the video that shows what really happened in Tower 7. There's a guy who was a conspiracy guy.

00:46:55.000 He was really deep into conspiracies.

00:46:56.000 And then the more he started looking into Tower 7, the more he realized that everyone is just showing the very final video where Tower 7 collapses like a controlled demolition.

00:47:07.000 And it looks exactly like a controlled demolition.

00:47:10.000 However, if you find the full video, you see that the interior had collapsed moments before, like quite a bit before.

00:47:19.000 Edward Currant, I think, is the guy who did that video.

00:47:21.000 I think that's exactly who it is.

00:47:22.000 See if you can find that gentleman's video.

00:47:25.000 But he shows how the top of it, you can see the top of Tower 7 give in, which is consistent with this idea that the diesel fuel that they had in the basement had created, wasn't it like diesel tanks?

00:47:39.000 Yeah, that was an early theory of the diesel fuel, that that was actually fueling the fire.

00:47:43.000 But they never found any evidence that actually the diesel fuel contributed to the fires.

00:47:48.000 It was just regular office fires, which is what everybody finds so suspicious.

00:47:53.000 So the diesel never caught fire?

00:47:56.000 Is that what they're saying?

00:47:57.000 They don't know.

00:47:57.000 It might have been after the collapse.

00:47:59.000 I think they recovered one of the tanks with some diesel still in it.

00:48:02.000 So, series of diesel, likely fed by a series of diesel.

00:48:06.000 Generators located in the lower floors, which is where most of the fires were concentrated.

00:48:11.000 So at least one of the diesel tanks didn't light up?

00:48:15.000 Is that what you're saying?

00:48:16.000 Yeah.

00:48:17.000 The theory, like NIST theory, is that the diesel had nothing to do with it.

00:48:22.000 Okay.

00:48:22.000 So NIST, which if you are a conspiracy theory person, they get really angry when you bring up NIST. Because they're the government.

00:48:29.000 The government, man!

00:48:31.000 So...

00:48:32.000 I think this is an older video.

00:48:33.000 Yeah, this isn't the video, Jamie.

00:48:35.000 There's one by...

00:48:36.000 Edward Currant.

00:48:37.000 Yeah.

00:48:38.000 And what it does is it shows the top of the building cave in first, quite a bit before the rest of the building.

00:48:45.000 So this idea that it all came in like a controlled demolition because they detonated all those things.

00:48:54.000 So, do-do-do-do-do.

00:48:57.000 Is that air recurrent?

00:48:58.000 Yeah.

00:48:58.000 I've got to find a good spot of the video to show it.

00:49:01.000 Okay.

00:49:02.000 Yeah.

00:49:02.000 So what happened, what they think was that the fire...

00:49:06.000 That's a shitty design of a building.

00:49:08.000 And the fire caused internal damage to all of the floors. 0.96

00:49:13.000 First of all, you see there the World Trade Center 1 fell basically against the side of 7. Yeah.

00:49:19.000 Yeah, it was pretty close.

00:49:21.000 That entire back of the building was all kind of like, all the windows were broken on the backside.

00:49:25.000 There was one column in the middle of the back that was missing, and a big chunk of the lower west side was kind of gouged out.

00:49:33.000 Right, so this idea that it was just a fire.

00:49:36.000 Yeah, it wasn't just a fire.

00:49:37.000 Yeah.

00:49:37.000 The fire is what triggered the collapse eventually, but the fact that all the windows were missing from the south side contributed a lot to that, because you got a lot of wind flow through.

00:49:49.000 See if he's got the...

00:49:50.000 I don't know, maybe this is a bad thing to do while you're actually doing the show.

00:49:55.000 So this is what the idea is.

00:49:57.000 The NIST computer models that all these floors had collapsed and then outside collapsed too.

00:50:03.000 But what this guy, Edward Curran, had showed in his video, I think it was him, was he showed that the top part...

00:50:11.000 The penthouse.

00:50:11.000 Yeah, the top penthouse had collapsed first.

00:50:13.000 There it is.

00:50:14.000 So if you see the penthouse collapsing...

00:50:16.000 So you're syncing it up there with the two videos, the simulation.

00:50:20.000 So it's sitting up there and then boom, you see it collapse.

00:50:23.000 And some windows breaking further down.

00:50:25.000 Exactly.

00:50:26.000 And that's something that no one ever shows.

00:50:28.000 And then it gives in.

00:50:30.000 Right.

00:50:30.000 So this is not a quick thing like a controlled demolition.

00:50:34.000 All those windows giving in is indicative of all those floors collapsing probably more than it is.

00:50:41.000 The idea of, you know, the people that want to see conspiracy think that those bombs were going off there, and that as those detonations or explosions were going off, that that's what caused all those floors to collapse on top of each other.

00:50:54.000 Yeah, I think that's what I was talking about with the core beliefs of the conspiracy theories with 9-11, this fact that World Trade Center 7 looks like a controlled demolition is its core belief.

00:51:04.000 But when you actually get into something and describe what's actually happening, you have to go to a much more complicated conspiracy theory and a much more complicated way of looking at what actually happened.

00:51:14.000 And now they're trying to do a complicated study of World Trade Center 7 at the University of Alaska.

00:51:22.000 This is something paid for by architects and engineers for 9-11 Truth. 0.64

00:51:25.000 They're trying to actually figure out how they can reconcile controlled demolition with the fact that it collapsed the way it did.

00:51:33.000 Right.

00:51:34.000 So they're trying to actually explain something which doesn't really need explaining because the explanation has been done by NIST already.

00:51:40.000 So what they're trying to do is find something that reinforces their initial idea instead of just look at the facts itself saying, If you look at the top of the penthouse collapsing, that's not indicative of a controlled demolition.

00:51:53.000 That's indicative of the model that NIST described, which is a slow burn inside, extremely hot, deterioration of all the internal structure.

00:52:02.000 Everything starts to collapse inside and then the outside collapses too.

00:52:05.000 Yeah, well some of them will say that that is actually how controlled demolitions are done.

00:52:08.000 You blow up the interior of the building first and then you blow up the exterior of the building.

00:52:13.000 But the problem is that none of the exterior columns were cut.

00:52:17.000 There was no explosion seen on the exterior columns.

00:52:20.000 If you look at the World Trade Center 1 and 2 coming down, you can kind of imagine there are explosions going all the way down because there's things that look like explosions from the falling floors.

00:52:28.000 But in 7, you just see the building kind of just kind of crumple down.

00:52:32.000 So they have to kind of explain that.

00:52:34.000 So they've come up with this study that they've funded.

00:52:36.000 It's cost them, like, nearly $400,000.

00:52:40.000 And they're trying to come up with an explanation that doesn't involve fire.

00:52:44.000 So they're saying, like, if it was controlled demolition, then the way they would have done it is blowing up these interior columns and it would have pulled in the exterior and collapsed the way we see in the video.

00:52:57.000 And I think that some of them say that the penthouse thing was a separate thing.

00:53:01.000 Because they wanted to have a neat demolition.

00:53:03.000 So they first of all blew up a few floors just underneath the penthouse.

00:53:06.000 So it neatly collapsed inside the building.

00:53:08.000 And then they blew up some floors at the bottom.

00:53:11.000 So it all fell in on itself without damaging the surrounding buildings too much.

00:53:14.000 So they've got this complex theory.

00:53:16.000 And it's based on confirmation bias.

00:53:18.000 It's based on confirming this idea that this is a controlled demolition, not on examining the whole thing as it is and going, OK, is it possible that the NIST model is correct?

00:53:30.000 The thing that I bring up to people all the time when they want to talk about conspiracies, there's a real conspiracy in 9-11 and that's the fact that it happened.

00:53:37.000 The fact that they did fly planes into buildings, that's a conspiracy and they pulled it off.

00:53:42.000 That actually did happen.

00:53:43.000 People don't want that to be it.

00:53:47.000 They want it to be a much broader conspiracy involving world governments that are trying to close in on all our rights and this is the way to do it.

00:53:57.000 Yeah, it's proportionality.

00:53:58.000 People want something to be in proportion to the size of the event.

00:54:02.000 And they think just like a bunch of Arabs with knives isn't a big enough cause.

00:54:09.000 So they think that it has to be something more significant.

00:54:12.000 And even like with the physics of it, they think, you know, the plane flew into the building and it didn't collapse.

00:54:17.000 So why would it collapse?

00:54:19.000 Some people don't think that the plane would even have gone in the hole.

00:54:24.000 They think it would have bounced off. 0.99

00:54:27.000 Who the fuck thinks that? 0.99

00:54:28.000 Or some of them think that the tower would have been knocked over. 1.00

00:54:32.000 Really?

00:54:32.000 Yeah.

00:54:33.000 But these are people who have really no conception whatsoever of physics.

00:54:36.000 And it's a minority of people.

00:54:37.000 But you'll find people who don't understand how aluminum can cut through steel.

00:54:43.000 You know, the columns of the exterior of the World Trade Center were made of steel.

00:54:47.000 Very strong steel.

00:54:48.000 And planes are made of mostly aluminum.

00:54:51.000 So they don't understand how a plane made of aluminum, which is soft, can go through steel, which is very hard and strong.

00:54:59.000 And the example I always give to them is the ping-pong ball going through a ping-pong paddle.

00:55:05.000 If you make it go fast enough, this is something I think Mythbusters do and various other people have done, you send a regular ping-pong ball 500 miles an hour into a ping-pong paddle and it just goes straight through it, leaves a ping-pong ball hole in the middle of it.

00:55:20.000 And that's just what happened on 9-11.

00:55:21.000 The planes were going at 500 miles an hour.

00:55:23.000 I didn't know you could do that with a ping-pong ball.

00:55:25.000 You can.

00:55:26.000 Wow.

00:55:26.000 That makes sense.

00:55:27.000 Well, for the planes, too, the amount of mass you're dealing with, too, and the speed.

00:55:32.000 It's 500 miles an hour.

00:55:34.000 Yeah, and it doesn't even need to be relatively that much mass.

00:55:39.000 You think a ping-pong ball, it weighs like one gram, and a paddle weighs like 200 grams or something.

00:55:45.000 And you wouldn't think...

00:55:47.000 You've seen ping pong paddles.

00:55:49.000 They're this laminated wood and rubber.

00:55:51.000 And you've got this flimsy little ball.

00:55:53.000 How on earth is that going to go through there?

00:55:55.000 So it's unintuitive.

00:55:56.000 So you can understand how people would be confused about why the planes left these little Roadrunner holes.

00:56:04.000 See if you can find that.

00:56:05.000 You got the Mythbusters thing?

00:56:06.000 I want to see that.

00:56:08.000 Oh, here it is.

00:56:08.000 Wow.

00:56:09.000 Well, that was a hole.

00:56:09.000 So they have some crazy air cannon.

00:56:13.000 Yep.

00:56:13.000 Blows all...

00:56:14.000 Okay, here's the problem with that, though.

00:56:16.000 Here's the problem with that.

00:56:17.000 They're doing that right in front of that. 0.81

00:56:19.000 They have to do that with the ping pong ball because it would slow down.

00:56:21.000 I understand, but you're also dealing with the actual air.

00:56:25.000 Yeah, but it's the...

00:56:26.000 But it is the ping pong ball that does it.

00:56:28.000 You can see it in slow motion.

00:56:29.000 Yeah.

00:56:30.000 What I was going to bring up was a guy killed himself once accidentally on a movie set.

00:56:36.000 Because he took an unloaded gun and he shot it into his temple and it blew his brains out.

00:56:42.000 Yeah, it was blank.

00:56:43.000 But the fact that it was blank didn't stop that air from blowing through.

00:56:49.000 There's a thing that people do when they hunt in Alaska.

00:56:54.000 And in incredibly moist climates and places where there's a lot of dirt and debris, they will put tape over the top of the rifle, over the end of the barrel where the bullet comes over.

00:57:05.000 Or they even use a condom.

00:57:07.000 And it has no effect whatsoever on the accuracy of the bullet because the air coming out of the rifle barrel from the explosion blows that tape out before the bullet even gets to it.

00:57:19.000 Yeah.

00:57:20.000 Yeah.

00:57:21.000 The only reason they have to have that thing right at the end of the barrel is the ping pong ball would slow down so rapidly in the air because it's so light.

00:57:30.000 If you shot something a little bit heavier but still pretty small, it will go through it.

00:57:34.000 Yeah, no, it makes sense.

00:57:35.000 But then you think you've got to scale it up.

00:57:37.000 Imagine a beer barrel made out of steel or aluminum.

00:57:41.000 It weighs like 100 pounds or whatever, what it's for.

00:57:45.000 You can imagine that slamming into something at 500 miles an hour.

00:57:48.000 If a ping pong ball can do something at 500 miles an hour, a beer barrel at 500 miles an hour can do an awful amount of damage.

00:57:54.000 Probably go right through a building.

00:57:56.000 Yeah, and then you scale up from like a beer barrel to a 200 ton plane.

00:58:01.000 Yeah.

00:58:13.000 I think this is a problem with a lot of these theories is that a lot of the people that are involved in these theories are either not educated in what they're talking about because there are some various nuances to things like this ping pong ball trick or They don't want to be.

00:58:34.000 They don't want to look at anything that takes away from this conspiracy.

00:58:40.000 They don't want to look at anything that debunks or disproves.

00:58:43.000 They just want confirmation of their initial idea that this is some big, grand conspiracy.

00:58:49.000 That someone is in on it and it's happening right before our eyes.

00:58:53.000 Yeah, it's quite hard to even get one point past a lot of people.

00:58:59.000 If someone starts out with that theory that aluminum cannot cut steel, then that just becomes the gatekeeping obstacle that you have to get past.

00:59:10.000 If you can't disprove that one thing, nothing else matters really for them because the plane couldn't have entered the building, therefore everything is a conspiracy.

00:59:18.000 So you kind of have to address these things.

00:59:21.000 Yeah, you have to.

00:59:22.000 And it's important for people before they decide that this is, you know, that the government's spraying things in the sky or that the world is flat or whatever these things are.

00:59:31.000 It's important to look at all the evidence.

00:59:34.000 These YouTube videos, one of the real problems with them is that they get to play out without being interrupted, much like a podcast, unfortunately.

00:59:41.000 But they get to have these...

00:59:44.000 Grand statements without anyone who's an expert stepping in and stopping them and saying, well, that's not true, and here's why it's not true, and here's why you can prove that it's not true, which would just derail most of these conspiracy theories really quickly.

00:59:58.000 Yeah, and that's kind of the brainwashing aspect of these videos.

01:00:02.000 People watch these three-hour videos.

01:00:06.000 It kind of surprised me at first.

01:00:08.000 I was surprised that people would listen to a three-hour podcast.

01:00:12.000 But, you know, once you get going in something, you know, the first time I was on your podcast, the time went by like nothing.

01:00:18.000 Yeah.

01:00:18.000 And if you're into something and you get sucked into it and you've got this really interesting theory and it's like all these revelations, like, oh my God, I'm getting the real skinny on the world.

01:00:28.000 The ice wall.

01:00:29.000 Yeah.

01:00:29.000 You just get sucked in and then when it's finished, you're on kind of a dopamine high and you want to do more.

01:00:36.000 And you also feel like you're in on something that people don't know and you want to tell them about it.

01:00:41.000 Oh, yeah.

01:00:41.000 And I've been there.

01:00:43.000 I've been there. 1.00

01:00:44.000 I've always tell people the dumbest one I ever believed in was those stupid tubes that fly through the air. 1.00

01:00:50.000 Rods. 1.00

01:00:51.000 Yeah.

01:00:52.000 I was hook, line, and sinker.

01:00:54.000 I would go outside and I would try to find those things streaking across the sky.

01:01:01.000 What it was was that there was a video that was made called Roswell Rods and it was trying to say that there was these bugs Like things that looked like jellyfish that were flying through the air so fast the naked eye couldn't see them but they would catch them on video cameras.

01:01:15.000 And then finally someone figured it out that what it really was was you could have an HD camera right next to a standard definition camera and the standard see those things flying across the sky.

01:01:27.000 It's just a video artifact when the camera cannot pick up Those bugs, it elongates them and streaks them across the camera.

01:01:38.000 Motion blur.

01:01:38.000 Yeah, it's motion blur.

01:01:39.000 And this guy came to one of my UFC Q&As once, and he waited in line and yelled out, You're wrong about the rods.

01:01:48.000 The rods are real.

01:01:49.000 I can prove it. 0.99

01:01:52.000 Silly fella. 1.00

01:01:54.000 But that was MonsterQuest had proven that on television. 0.98

01:01:59.000 They'd set up two cameras.

01:02:00.000 Yeah, it's so hard when it's actually been proven and you've got this conclusive proof and yet there are still loads and loads of people who believe in rods and orbs.

01:02:09.000 Look how he was describing that it looks.

01:02:11.000 Yeah, it's like some kind of alien jellyfish.

01:02:14.000 That's so fast, it flies through the air faster than you can see.

01:02:18.000 Yeah, I mean, the problem is these guys have a vested interest in it being real.

01:02:22.000 He's motivated, and not necessarily by money.

01:02:24.000 They're just motivated because once they believe something, they feel like they're privy to this special knowledge.

01:02:30.000 It's just gonna be such a letdown if they're wrong.

01:02:32.000 I think it's that and money.

01:02:34.000 I mean, he sold a bunch of videos.

01:02:35.000 I bought them. 1.00

01:02:36.000 I bought two of those bitches. 1.00

01:02:38.000 Well, I just tried to start out with the assumption that people are not, you know, they're basically good people and they're not trying to make money. 0.99

01:02:45.000 Right.

01:02:45.000 Well, I think they also get caught up in the business of whatever it is.

01:02:49.000 You know, if you're in the UFO business and then someone comes along and shuts down your business, you're going to try to, well, let me sort of, they're not going to look at it objectively.

01:02:59.000 They're going to go, I want to keep my business alive.

01:03:01.000 I want to protect my business.

01:03:03.000 Yeah.

01:03:03.000 Yeah, well, it's like architects and engineers for 9-11 Truth.

01:03:07.000 They're like a half-million-dollar-a-year business.

01:03:10.000 They're taking between $400,000 and $800,000 a year.

01:03:13.000 And the president of the architects and engineers, he gets paid a salary of like $85,000 a year.

01:03:21.000 And he gets his expenses paid.

01:03:23.000 Now, that doesn't mean that he doesn't believe in what he's doing.

01:03:26.000 He, I'm sure, started out as a hardcore believer in 9-11 truth. 0.61

01:03:31.000 But over the last 10 years, this has become his life and his livelihood.

01:03:37.000 So even if he really believes it, he still has this additional level of motivation to not disprove things.

01:03:46.000 How many people are in architects and engineers for 9-11 Truth?

01:03:49.000 Well, it depends how you count it.

01:03:51.000 They say they have thousands of architects and engineers actually signing the petition.

01:03:57.000 I think they have maybe a few hundred working structural engineers.

01:04:04.000 What do you think of their take on it?

01:04:08.000 Their take is kind of like the standard of 9-11 truth.

01:04:12.000 They think that it's controlled demolition and they think they have all this evidence for controlled demolition, but it's not very good evidence.

01:04:21.000 One of the experts is a high school physics teacher.

01:04:26.000 And, you know, he's probably fairly good at high school physics, but he just makes some very simple mistakes about physics of the falling towers, and they repeat this on their website, unquestioningly.

01:04:40.000 There's another guy who's, like, the expert on the nanothermite residue that was found.

01:04:46.000 You know, they think that these red and grey specks of what looks like paint and rust was actually nanothermite.

01:04:54.000 Since he's now, like...

01:04:56.000 An expert on their site, he gets to say whatever he likes and he's got this one theory about how the bits of steel that flew out of the building had these nanothermite rockets attached to them, which is why they were leaving these trails of smoke behind when they fell down.

01:05:12.000 And these are things that are just pretty ridiculous and you can kind of...

01:05:16.000 Debunk them with physics, but they'll have none of it because they've got their experts saying something.

01:05:22.000 And you can't deny the fact that...

01:05:27.000 You can't debunk their experts because they're experts.

01:05:30.000 Where would you know more about a high school physics teacher about physics?

01:05:33.000 Where would you know more about nanothermite than this guy who's an expert in nanothermite?

01:05:37.000 So they've got all this supposed expertise...

01:05:41.000 Making these mistakes about 9-11.

01:05:45.000 The president has this ridiculous demonstration that he does where he holds up two cardboard boxes and underneath one of them there's empty space and underneath the other one there's a tower and he drops them and this one falls to the ground and this one bounces off the cardboard box and he's basically saying this is what should have happened.

01:06:03.000 This upper portion should have stopped on the way down, and he's using these cardboard boxes as a demonstration.

01:06:10.000 But they're ridiculous oversimplifications of what actually happened.

01:06:16.000 Yeah, I don't know too much about the engineers' take on things, you know, from architects and engineers.

01:06:24.000 I really didn't bother getting into it too much.

01:06:27.000 But I just do know that it's several hundred people, if not over a thousand, and they're all over the world.

01:06:34.000 But how many people have studied it that disagree with them?

01:06:39.000 Like, how many...

01:06:40.000 And how good are the architects and engineers that are in...

01:06:43.000 I mean, there's a lot of architects and a lot of engineers in this world.

01:06:46.000 Yeah, they recently tried to get a motion passed at the American Institute of Architects, which was basically a reopened World Trade Center 7. And they went to the convention and they stood up and they gave their speeches and gave all their evidence about why,

01:07:04.000 you know, the Building 7...

01:07:06.000 The investigation should have been reopened, and they took a vote, and I think it was about something like 97% to 3% against doing this.

01:07:15.000 So of the architects who were actually there, these professional architects, 97%, I can't remember the exact figures, but it's around that, voted against this.

01:07:24.000 Against reopening the case.

01:07:26.000 Yeah, even though there are thousands of signatures to the AE911 petition who are actually architects, When you actually look at the actual millions of architects that are out there in the world, it's a very small fraction of that.

01:07:41.000 Right, but how many of those millions have studied it?

01:07:44.000 That's the real problem.

01:07:45.000 I would like to see someone who's like a real, legitimate, top-of-the-food-chain architect from the debunking side view it from someone who is absolutely all in as conspiracy.

01:07:58.000 Lots of people have done various studies on 9-11, the collapses of the building.

01:08:03.000 There was a book by a guy from London, I think it's called Feng Fu, Chinese guy from London who wrote a book on progressive collapses in large buildings.

01:08:15.000 It came out last year, 2016, and it discusses why buildings haven't collapsed, why the World Trade Center towers collapsed, amongst a whole bunch of other buildings, why we either collapsed or didn't.

01:08:26.000 So there are lots of people who do actually study it.

01:08:29.000 And within AE 9-11, architects and engineers for 9-11, the vast majority of them have not studied it.

01:08:37.000 If you look at their position statements, everybody who joins it writes a little statement which goes on the website.

01:08:44.000 They'll say things like, I watched loose change and that opened my eyes.

01:08:48.000 Or, it looked weird to me.

01:08:52.000 That's the real common thing.

01:08:54.000 When I saw the towers fall, I knew it wasn't a regular collapse.

01:09:02.000 It looked weird to me is my favorite one.

01:09:04.000 It did look weird.

01:09:05.000 It looked weird to me.

01:09:08.000 An architect saying it looked weird to them, it looked weird to everybody.

01:09:13.000 No one has seen anything like that before.

01:09:14.000 It was unprecedented.

01:09:16.000 The Saturn V rocket taking off looks weird because it hadn't happened before.

01:09:20.000 Yeah, there's a lot of things that look weird.

01:09:22.000 What other things do you think that you and I disagree on?

01:09:28.000 I think maybe the Morgellons or Morgellons thing.

01:09:32.000 Oh, yeah.

01:09:32.000 You are more prone to think that it's a real thing because you went to the Morgellons conference.

01:09:38.000 Not that it's a real thing, that there's real fibers growing out of people, but that there's neurotoxic This is what I got from a doctor.

01:09:46.000 The doctor who had Morgellons was at the clinic, who was a very reasonable guy.

01:09:50.000 William Harvey, I think his name is.

01:09:52.000 Is that his name?

01:09:52.000 Yeah.

01:09:52.000 He has Lyme disease.

01:09:54.000 And he said the vast majority of the people that have Morgellons also have Lyme disease.

01:09:58.000 Right.

01:09:59.000 And he believes that there is a neurotoxic quality to Lyme disease that affects the way you see things.

01:10:04.000 It even causes hallucinations, and he witnessed it himself.

01:10:07.000 He said, I hallucinated and saw something crawling across the surface of my eyeball in the mirror, but it wasn't a real thing.

01:10:15.000 I couldn't see it after I looked at it again.

01:10:17.000 It was gone, but I did see it for a moment, and he's convinced that Lyme disease, when you catch Lyme disease, You're not necessarily catching...

01:10:27.000 It's not like you have Tylenol, something that's isolated.

01:10:30.000 It's very specific.

01:10:32.000 When you get Tylenol, you're getting Tylenol.

01:10:34.000 He's like, when you get bit by a tick that has Lyme disease, you could get a host of pathogens.

01:10:41.000 And there's what tests positive for Lyme disease.

01:10:45.000 It's very tricky to find someone to...

01:10:47.000 Yeah, but this doctor, this one guy, William Harvey, he's a guy who thinks he has Morgellons or he thinks he has chronic Lyme.

01:10:54.000 Well, he definitely has chronic Lyme, and he thinks that what Morgellons is is a side effect of chronic Lyme where people start thinking there's fibers growing out of their skin.

01:11:03.000 And so they think that fibers that come from their clothes or carpets, they get stuck to someplace they've been itching because they open up a wound, and that they start misinterpreting that as being something that's grown out of their skin.

01:11:18.000 Yeah, well, I would agree with that part of it.

01:11:20.000 That's what he thinks.

01:11:21.000 Yeah, so really he's not really a Morgellons guy, he's a chronic Lyme guy.

01:11:25.000 Yes, he is.

01:11:26.000 He's a Morgellons guy in the fact that he has seen the hallucinations, but because of the fact that he's a doctor and scientifically minded, he believes that he's watching his own mind play tricks on him, and he thinks there's neurotoxic qualities to whatever the pathogens that are in Lyme disease are.

01:11:44.000 Yeah.

01:11:45.000 Well, I guess I don't disagree with you too much then.

01:11:47.000 I would disagree with you, I think, on chronic Lyme, but I think you probably know more about it than I do.

01:11:52.000 From what I've seen, most doctors don't think chronic Lyme is a real thing.

01:11:58.000 It depends on how long you have it for before you get it treated.

01:12:01.000 That's the real issue.

01:12:02.000 There's post-Lyme syndrome and chronic Lyme, which some people think there's a chronic infection, and other people think there's just chronic effects left over from having Lyme disease for a long time.

01:12:13.000 I think there's a lot of variabilities.

01:12:15.000 I think we'd probably have to really consult an actual Lyme disease doctor on this.

01:12:21.000 Not my area of expertise.

01:12:22.000 Nor mine.

01:12:23.000 But I do have friends that have gotten Lyme disease.

01:12:26.000 And I know some people that are suffering from it to this day that have like real, real terrible issues with it.

01:12:31.000 My friend Jim Miller, who's a fighter in the UFC, it's come and go with him in a terrible way.

01:12:36.000 It greatly affects his joints.

01:12:39.000 And he's had to take various medications, try to get a handle on it.

01:12:42.000 It depends, I think, on...

01:12:44.000 The person, there's a lot of variables.

01:12:46.000 Depends on the person.

01:12:48.000 Depends on how quickly they detect the Lyme disease.

01:12:51.000 My friend brought his son to the doctor.

01:12:53.000 His son had Lyme disease.

01:12:55.000 He brought his son to the doctor.

01:12:56.000 The doctor didn't believe he had Lyme disease because the bullseye ring around the bite had gone away, which does sometimes happen.

01:13:06.000 They said, nah, it's probably nothing.

01:13:08.000 Then the kid developed Bell's palsy.

01:13:10.000 And then they said, okay, this is serious.

01:13:12.000 And then they realized that he actually does have Lyme disease.

01:13:15.000 And he was pretty pissed that the doctor didn't take him seriously.

01:13:17.000 He had the Lyme disease as well.

01:13:19.000 He had to go on some serious intravenous antibiotics for months.

01:13:23.000 It was like really heavy stuff.

01:13:25.000 So he did actually have Lyme disease.

01:13:27.000 He had Lyme disease and it devastated him for months.

01:13:29.000 For months, he wasn't the same.

01:13:31.000 I think a problem with a lot of these medical conditions is that they're clinical diagnoses, which means that they're diagnosed not with tests that you can do of blood and things like that, but it's based on the symptoms.

01:13:41.000 Yes.

01:13:42.000 And a lot of the times people, they like to attribute their problems to something and give it a name.

01:13:48.000 So we've got a lot of things now like fibromyalgia, where we don't have...

01:13:55.000 We can't do a blood test usually for something like fibromyalgia.

01:13:59.000 You have elevated...

01:14:15.000 Self-diagnosis Yeah, and with Morgellons, that happens a lot. 1.00

01:14:22.000 People get old, your joints start to ache, your hair starts to fall out, and your eyes start to, you know, you're losing your vision, your focus.

01:14:31.000 And people think, what's wrong with me?

01:14:33.000 And they don't realize they're just getting old.

01:14:34.000 And they look it up and they think they have Morgellons. 0.54

01:14:38.000 Or they think they have chronic Lyme.

01:14:40.000 People just, if they're getting ill for some reason, they like to attribute their chronic condition to something.

01:14:47.000 So they might tag on to a particular thing like chronic Lyme if they got bit by a tick, like last summer, and then this summer now they have all these problems, they might self-diagnose as having chronic Lyme.

01:15:01.000 It is possible, but you do realize there's a tremendous amount of Lyme disease in the Northeast in particular.

01:15:06.000 Oh yeah, Lyme disease is a very real thing.

01:15:07.000 It's a horrible, horrible condition. 0.86

01:15:09.000 And the people that do get it, I mean, they're pretty uniform in the fact that it sucks. 0.85

01:15:13.000 And it's really scary because it really didn't kind of exist just a few hundred years ago. 0.52

01:15:18.000 I mean, I don't know where it came from.

01:15:20.000 Yeah, I don't know.

01:15:22.000 Or maybe they didn't know what it was.

01:15:23.000 People got it and no one had any idea what it was.

01:15:26.000 Yeah, it could be.

01:15:27.000 It was discovered in that village, Lime, which is what it's named after.

01:15:31.000 That reminds me of the Cuban Embassy thing with the sonic weapons.

01:15:35.000 Yeah, what do you think about that thing?

01:15:36.000 I don't think there is any sonic weapon.

01:15:40.000 Why do you think that?

01:15:42.000 Because it's the same type of thing.

01:15:45.000 People are reporting a bunch of symptoms.

01:15:47.000 They haven't really done any physical diagnosis of people.

01:15:52.000 People were getting ill.

01:15:53.000 People were reporting hearing noises.

01:15:56.000 But the noises kind of sound like cicadas.

01:16:01.000 And so it could have been, like, one guy waits over the middle of the night, there's a cicada in his room, jumps out of bed, cicada goes quiet.

01:16:08.000 And if you ever tried tracking a cicada in your yard, you know, you get close to them and they go quiet, so you've got to start moving.

01:16:14.000 So he gets back into bed, cicada starts buzzing again.

01:16:17.000 So this happens to one guy, say.

01:16:19.000 He tells this story to someone.

01:16:21.000 Maybe he gets ill later.

01:16:23.000 Some unrelated thing.

01:16:25.000 And other people say, well, I don't feel very well either.

01:16:28.000 And then at some point, people make a false connection.

01:16:32.000 And they start thinking that something actually happened.

01:16:35.000 And so they start asking people, how are you feeling?

01:16:38.000 Are you feeling all right?

01:16:39.000 How's your hearing?

01:16:40.000 And people say, well, my hearing is not as good as it used to be.

01:16:42.000 My eyesight is not as good as it used to be.

01:16:44.000 I've been having these balance problems.

01:16:46.000 But it's just people just having normal life problems.

01:16:49.000 They're getting old or they've had food sickness or they've moved away.

01:16:55.000 Pull up evidence of sonic weapon in Cuba.

01:17:00.000 Because I don't agree with you on this one.

01:17:03.000 The U.S. releases recordings of sonic weapon attack used against diplomats in Cuba.

01:17:08.000 Play this.

01:17:13.000 Sounds a bit like a cicada to me.

01:17:24.000 At least 22 people have been hurt by the mysterious high-pitched sound.

01:17:27.000 Have they, though?

01:17:28.000 Have they?

01:17:29.000 22 people are sick.

01:17:30.000 They've talked to their doctors and they've told them about the symptoms of the high-pitched.

01:17:34.000 They've diagnosed people with brain damage, but it's a clinical diagnosis.

01:17:39.000 But you know that they have sonic weapons, right?

01:17:41.000 Yeah, they have sonic weapons.

01:17:42.000 Sonic weapons is something that have been researched and it's real. 0.96

01:17:45.000 And you don't think it's entirely possible that this is a sonic weapon?

01:17:50.000 I don't see any evidence that it's a sonic weapon.

01:17:52.000 Have you looked into this a lot?

01:17:53.000 Yeah.

01:17:53.000 Yeah?

01:17:55.000 It seems to me that if they're broadcasting it, and this is something that, you know, the government's talking about it, they're investigating it, all these different people are investigating it, it seems like there's enough evidence that they're concerned.

01:18:08.000 Yeah, but everyone's reporting different things.

01:18:11.000 Stressful conditions, not sonic weapon, sickened U.S. diplomats.

01:18:15.000 Cuba panel asserts, yeah, you can't listen to that.

01:18:18.000 They're like, you just got sick, man.

01:18:20.000 I think they're right.

01:18:21.000 Cuba, they've got an interest in figuring it out because they don't want to get the finger.

01:18:26.000 Yeah, of course.

01:18:27.000 Yeah, it's probably not Cuba doing it if it was somebody.

01:18:31.000 Look at this.

01:18:32.000 After a nine-month probe hampered by a lack of access to medical records, a panel of Cuban scientists today declared U.S. diplomats here likely suffered a collective psychogenic disorder Huh.

01:18:48.000 Not a deliberate health attack.

01:18:50.000 Mass hysteria, essentially.

01:18:51.000 So see what evidence there is that is pro.

01:18:55.000 I typed in evidence and this is what came up.

01:18:58.000 Yeah, this is a new thing.

01:19:00.000 The latest thing is that...

01:19:01.000 Yeah, but see if there's any other articles that contradict this.

01:19:04.000 There is a later thing than this where there's been...

01:19:07.000 They say the detector changes in the white matter of the brain of some people.

01:19:11.000 Hmm.

01:19:12.000 Which is a bit vague.

01:19:14.000 The white matter of the brain.

01:19:15.000 Yeah.

01:19:15.000 What are they using, fMRI?

01:19:17.000 What are they using to find the...

01:19:18.000 I don't know how they do it.

01:19:19.000 They can't even figure out CTE in players.

01:19:22.000 Yeah, but who knows what caused this and how many people actually had it.

01:19:26.000 If one guy has changes in the white matter of his brain, who knows what that's actually due to.

01:19:32.000 Doctors treating victims of the attack, though, have found visible, perceptible damage to the patient's brains, marking the first solid evidence that sophisticated weapon described by embassy staff is entirely real, the Associated Press reports.

01:19:47.000 Says the Associated Press, based on what?

01:19:48.000 Based on someone at the State Department saying, we have found some damage somewhere. 1.00

01:19:54.000 You know, the State Department is covering their ass. 0.98

01:19:56.000 The State Department expelled Cuban diplomats because of this. 0.99

01:20:00.000 They did?

01:20:01.000 Yeah.

01:20:02.000 Meanwhile, the Cuban diplomats are like, man, we did nothing!

01:20:05.000 Yeah.

01:20:05.000 We did nothing, Mike.

01:20:06.000 Scroll back up there, please.

01:20:07.000 Scroll back up to the top.

01:20:08.000 They took some Americans away from the embassy because they were sick.

01:20:12.000 And so they said the Cubans didn't protect the Americans well enough, so you're going to have to send six people back as well.

01:20:19.000 See, it says the State Department of the FBI officials...

01:20:24.000 Oh, it's so unlike anything the State Department and the FBI officials have ever seen that the Cuban government's claim the high-pitched whirring sounds reported by the U.S. Embassy staff are just cicadas.

01:20:35.000 Seems almost plausible.

01:20:36.000 Click on that link that says they're just cicadas.

01:20:38.000 Up at the top.

01:20:40.000 Yeah, but the same one we just saw, I think.

01:20:41.000 Is that it?

01:20:42.000 Yeah.

01:20:43.000 Playing the noise.

01:20:46.000 Hmm.

01:20:47.000 This is a similar attack happened to somebody else in Uzbekistan.

01:20:50.000 Is that Bush?

01:20:50.000 Oh, really?

01:20:51.000 Yeah.

01:20:51.000 Old school Bush.

01:20:53.000 Why do they have a picture of him?

01:20:54.000 He's being attacked by a cicada.

01:20:55.000 It's my idea.

01:20:56.000 I did it all.

01:20:58.000 Yeah.

01:20:59.000 It's a weird sound, for sure.

01:21:01.000 But I would think that something that could damage you would be a frequency that would be...

01:21:09.000 Audible?

01:21:11.000 Yeah.

01:21:12.000 Well, some of them reported hearing things.

01:21:14.000 But, you know, some people didn't report hearing things.

01:21:17.000 Some people had a high-pitched whine that disappeared.

01:21:20.000 Some people had a long-lasting rumbling noise.

01:21:24.000 The attacks might not be sonic at all.

01:21:26.000 Vision changes.

01:21:27.000 All kinds of different, you know, just the irregular Morgellons, chronic fatigue, getting old type symptoms.

01:21:33.000 Hmm.

01:21:35.000 So you think that someone started talking about this being an issue, that they're being attacked, and everybody started freaking out?

01:21:41.000 Yeah.

01:21:41.000 That's possible.

01:21:42.000 Yeah, and I think probably something happened, like, you know, some guy heard something and jumped out of bed and it stopped, and then got back into bed and it started again, and someone else...

01:21:50.000 Had something similar happened?

01:21:52.000 That's funny, because if you were in Cuba, and they didn't want you there, and you heard weird noises, you're like, God damn it, they're attacking me with a sound ray.

01:22:00.000 And people are being harassed in Cuba.

01:22:03.000 Like, if you work at the American Embassy, you get harassed.

01:22:06.000 New sonic attack against American diplomats suggests Russian involvement.

01:22:12.000 The Russians did it through Twitter bots. 0.90

01:22:15.000 When you click on the Twitter bots, they send sound through your earbuds.

01:22:21.000 Yeah, people are saying like, you know, linking the cicadas causing the hearing loss.

01:22:25.000 But no one's actually saying the cicadas are causing people to lose their hearing.

01:22:29.000 They're just saying that, you know, people sometimes get reductions in their hearing as they get older.

01:22:35.000 And maybe they're noticing it because they're focusing on it so much.

01:22:39.000 Right.

01:22:39.000 That's what happens with all these diseases.

01:22:41.000 People think, I'm sick, and then they focus on something.

01:22:43.000 Like, if you feel like you're itching a bit and you think you've got some kind of weird pathogen under your skin, you're just going to itch more and more.

01:22:50.000 You're going to feel more and more itching.

01:22:52.000 Right.

01:22:53.000 So if people weren't really paying attention, like, you know, I have, like, mild tinnitus, like, ringing in the ears.

01:22:58.000 Right.

01:22:58.000 From video games or something?

01:23:00.000 I don't know.

01:23:00.000 Headphones?

01:23:01.000 They say you get that from...

01:23:02.000 Yeah, it could be.

01:23:03.000 But, you know, people get older for no reason.

01:23:05.000 Some people, you know, go into loud concerts or whatever.

01:23:08.000 Right.

01:23:09.000 Most of the time, I don't even think about it.

01:23:11.000 I might have never even noticed it.

01:23:13.000 But if I stop and listen to my, you know, what's going on in my ears, I can hear the tinnitus, this...

01:23:23.000 I think we're being bombarded by sonic weapons.

01:23:27.000 Can you hear any ringing in your ear or anything like that?

01:23:30.000 And then you go quiet and you listen.

01:23:32.000 And you start noticing these things.

01:23:35.000 Right.

01:23:36.000 That makes sense.

01:23:38.000 People are very susceptible.

01:23:41.000 Psychosomatic illnesses are absolutely very real.

01:23:43.000 And there's a thing called sick building syndrome, which is possibly a real thing and possibly a psychogenic thing.

01:23:52.000 But a lot of people think that sick building syndrome, a lot of the times when it happens, it's like when lots of people working in the same place get similar symptoms.

01:24:01.000 It's happening because of this mass psychogenic illness.

01:24:04.000 One person says, I feel sick, and everyone kind of assumes it's something in the environment around them that's causing that, and so they kind of feel sick as well.

01:24:13.000 There's a disease that I had heard of.

01:24:15.000 Someone was talking about this one.

01:24:16.000 It's called allophrenia, I believe.

01:24:18.000 And that is when people go to visit people who have schizophrenia, if they hang out with those people, they start developing very bizarre behavior of their own.

01:24:29.000 And sometimes they have to be monitored.

01:24:32.000 That's kind of weird.

01:24:33.000 Yeah.

01:24:33.000 We all know that some people are way more susceptible to suggestion, way more susceptible to...

01:24:41.000 Have you ever been hypnotized?

01:24:41.000 No, I haven't.

01:24:42.000 I have.

01:24:43.000 It's fascinating.

01:24:43.000 Yeah.

01:24:44.000 I feel like I wouldn't be hypnotizable.

01:24:47.000 I think you say that.

01:24:48.000 Everybody thinks that, apparently.

01:24:49.000 Yeah.

01:24:49.000 I thought that, too.

01:24:50.000 But I did it with a friend.

01:24:52.000 My friend Vinnie Shorman did it to me, so I trusted him.

01:24:54.000 And he's a registered, licensed hypnotist, and he works with a lot of athletes, a lot of fighters in particular.

01:25:00.000 And basically just puts you in a very bizarre state of mind, but you're aware of it the whole time.

01:25:06.000 It's not like, you know, some Manchurian candidate thing where they're going to wake up, Mick.

01:25:10.000 Now you're an assassin for the government.

01:25:12.000 And you'll like run out the door in your underwear like Captain Underpants.

01:25:15.000 Do you know who Captain Underpants is?

01:25:16.000 Do you have kids?

01:25:17.000 No, but I do know who Captain Underpants is.

01:25:19.000 Yeah, my kids love Captain Underpants.

01:25:21.000 Yeah, a friend of mine told me I should try hypnotizing my wife. 1.00

01:25:24.000 To do what?

01:25:25.000 He didn't specify exactly.

01:25:28.000 He says it's the way he keeps his relationship going.

01:25:32.000 He hypnotizes her?

01:25:33.000 Yeah, like every couple of nights he hypnotizes his wife and just, I don't know, I don't know exactly what happens exactly.

01:25:39.000 He didn't really specify, but he highly recommended hypnotizing my wife. 0.55

01:25:43.000 Wow, that guy sounds like a creep. 1.00

01:25:44.000 He's doing some weird shit to his wife. 1.00

01:25:46.000 He's a nice guy, but... 1.00

01:25:47.000 Maybe not when he's got that stopwatch hanging from his string.

01:25:52.000 It was always a watch, right?

01:25:53.000 Follow the watch very carefully.

01:25:55.000 You're getting sleepy.

01:25:58.000 Yeah, that's real.

01:26:00.000 Hypnosis is real.

01:26:01.000 I was wondering.

01:26:02.000 I was like, what is this like? 1.00

01:26:04.000 Is this bullshit? 0.99

01:26:05.000 But it really does put you in a very unusual state. 0.99

01:26:09.000 And when you get out of it, you can go through a lot of stuff that you have maybe cluttering around inside your mind and reorganize after a hypnotic session.

01:26:18.000 It's pretty interesting.

01:26:19.000 There's a reason why people use it for quitting smoking and things along those lines.

01:26:25.000 Yeah, well, this just shows how malleable the human brain is.

01:26:28.000 And it goes back to that whole thing with being brainwashed by YouTube.

01:26:32.000 People make documentaries in a way to hypnotize people.

01:26:37.000 They structure it in a way that you get these images coming at you and these ideas and this reinforcement of things in a way that will actually just kind of embed this idea in your brain without you even really realizing it.

01:26:53.000 Yeah, they'll say things like, you are being lied to.

01:26:55.000 The thing that kills me, too, is that they use, oftentimes, a hypnotic voice.

01:27:00.000 Like that Eric Dubé guy who does those Flat Earth videos, he talks in a very hypnotic manner.

01:27:06.000 It's like very calm and...

01:27:09.000 Yeah, I think some of the 9-11 videos do as well.

01:27:11.000 There's this nice woman dictating it. 1.00

01:27:14.000 Yeah, they get it.

01:27:15.000 The buildings could not possibly have fallen the way they did.

01:27:19.000 Physics proves it.

01:27:20.000 It looks like we're gonna have Eric Dubé, he said he's agreed to do it, talk with Neil deGrasse Tyson.

01:27:27.000 What?

01:27:27.000 Yes.

01:27:28.000 He's gonna Skype in from Thailand, or wherever the fuck he is. 0.98

01:27:33.000 Yeah, I think it's in Thailand. 0.99

01:27:34.000 I don't know how he gets there with the flat earth.

01:27:36.000 How do you get there?

01:27:37.000 That's still in the northern hemisphere, I think, Thailand.

01:27:40.000 Scoop over there?

01:27:41.000 Shoot over there and avoid the ice wall?

01:27:44.000 But he doesn't believe in dinosaurs either. 0.99

01:27:47.000 Yeah, he's kind of a crazy guy.

01:27:49.000 No way, you think? 0.98

01:27:50.000 He doesn't believe in...

01:27:52.000 I don't know if he believes in satellites, but I don't think he believes in nuclear bombs either.

01:27:55.000 He's a bit of anti-Semite as well, I think.

01:27:57.000 Is he?

01:27:58.000 Yeah, that's the whole kind of subculture in the movement of...

01:28:03.000 Flat Earths.

01:28:04.000 Yeah, Nazis type people.

01:28:07.000 Well, because of the conspiracy theory goes back to, you know, the Rothschilds running the world.

01:28:12.000 Right.

01:28:13.000 And so they think it's these, you know, this certain sect of the Jewish race who are actually in control of everything. 0.98

01:28:19.000 And these are the people who are stopping you from.

01:28:21.000 Eric Dubey, this is not me saying this.

01:28:23.000 I have no knowledge whether or not you're anti-Semite.

01:28:26.000 So don't chicken out.

01:28:28.000 It's pretty easy to verify.

01:28:29.000 He's got a bunch of videos explaining his position on it.

01:28:33.000 My favorite thing is that he's... 0.99

01:28:35.000 My friend Eddie Bravo is kind of buying into some of his shit, which tortures me to no end. 0.99

01:28:40.000 But Eddie is one of the greatest jiu-jitsu coaches on planet Earth. 0.99

01:28:44.000 I mean, he's an amazing jiu-jitsu coach and jiu-jitsu competitor. 0.95

01:28:47.000 And one of Eric Dubé's biggest videos is about how jiu-jitsu is bullshit. 0.97

01:28:56.000 It just shows you. 0.98

01:28:58.000 Isn't it about that?

01:28:59.000 It's like about Wing Chun Kung Fu defeats jujitsu?

01:29:03.000 Which is, by the way, not true.

01:29:05.000 Don't try it. 0.95

01:29:06.000 Unless you're way bigger and the guy sucks at jujitsu.

01:29:09.000 You should get those guys in a room together and they can just fight it out.

01:29:12.000 Yeah, I don't think so.

01:29:13.000 They would just talk about conspiracies to the end of time.

01:29:16.000 Eddie loves conspiracies.

01:29:18.000 I would like to talk to Eddie.

01:29:19.000 Yeah, we could do that.

01:29:20.000 But it would be a lot of screaming.

01:29:22.000 It would be a lot of screaming. 0.63

01:29:23.000 Might have to get you some earplugs here.

01:29:24.000 Tinnitus would kick in.

01:29:25.000 It's interesting because he knows so much about them all.

01:29:27.000 Oh, man!

01:29:27.000 He's really interested in them.

01:29:29.000 He just confuses me.

01:29:30.000 I'm like, how much time do you have?

01:29:31.000 Where do you have the time for this?

01:29:33.000 Yeah, he's spouting off this advanced physics references like Mickelson-Morley and Aries failure and things like that.

01:29:41.000 Those are the flat earth things.

01:29:42.000 Yeah, the science experiments that supposedly proved the earth wasn't moving.

01:29:46.000 That one's hilarious to me because when I first brought it up to Eddie, Jamie pulled this up and sent it to me the other day.

01:29:53.000 I first brought it up to Eddie from like eight years ago on the podcast, one of the really early podcasts when we still did it in my house on a couch.

01:30:02.000 And he's like, what's the most ridiculous conspiracy theory you heard?

01:30:05.000 And I said, flat earth. 0.57

01:30:07.000 And he's like, no, people don't believe the earth is flat.

01:30:10.000 So, he went from that to, I don't think he's 100% convinced that it's flat, but he's definitely willing to listen.

01:30:17.000 He's down the rabbit hole.

01:30:18.000 He got sucked in.

01:30:19.000 He loves it.

01:30:20.000 And it's probably like a lot of it, it's just from him watching endless YouTube videos.

01:30:23.000 It's 100% what it is.

01:30:24.000 Here it is right here.

01:30:28.000 What's the worst conspiracy theory?

01:30:30.000 Like, the worst one?

01:30:31.000 Flat Earth.

01:30:32.000 There's people that think that Earth is flat.

01:30:33.000 To the Young Earth, that's another bad one.

01:30:35.000 No, no, no.

01:30:36.000 Like, today, people don't believe it's flat.

01:30:37.000 Yes, Young Earth?

01:30:39.000 Yeah.

01:30:40.000 That's a big percentage of the Christian population. 0.99

01:30:42.000 I went with Young Earth there for some fucking stranger. 0.99

01:30:46.000 We were all baked. 0.98

01:30:47.000 So, I probably...

01:30:49.000 Unfortunately.

01:30:49.000 But that was when he found out about Flat Earth for me.

01:30:53.000 And that was...

01:30:54.000 He stuttered him down the rabbit hole.

01:30:55.000 A thousand episodes ago.

01:30:57.000 What episode was that?

01:30:58.000 54. So that was probably 2010. Yeah, yeah.

01:31:02.000 First year.

01:31:03.000 Yeah.

01:31:04.000 Yeah, I don't think the flat earth was even that big on the internet back then.

01:31:07.000 Dude, I'm ahead of the curve, baby.

01:31:10.000 You're responsible for this whole thing.

01:31:13.000 Well, he and I used to watch UFO things forever, but he got off a UFO. See, he goes in waves, right?

01:31:20.000 Eddie goes in waves.

01:31:21.000 We were both really into UFOs, and in particular, Zechariah Sitchin.

01:31:26.000 That was the big one.

01:31:27.000 Do you know who Zechariah Sitchin is?

01:31:29.000 I think you talked about him last time.

01:31:30.000 He's the Sumerian text guy.

01:31:32.000 He wrote, the reason why Tenth Planet Jiu-Jitsu is named Tenth Planet Jiu-Jitsu, I actually came up with the name, and one of the reasons why I came up with the name is because we were talking about Zechariah Sitchin.

01:31:46.000 And the idea is that this came from another planet.

01:31:51.000 We actually came up with the name before Pluto had been changed from, you know, they had...

01:31:58.000 Decided as a planetoid.

01:31:59.000 Downgraded it.

01:32:00.000 So we decided that this jiu-jitsu is coming from another planet, like out there where the Anunnaki live. 1.00

01:32:05.000 But it was based on Zachariah Sitchin's book, The Twelfth Planet.

01:32:09.000 And his book was all about Planet Nibiru and that the Sumerian texts...

01:32:16.000 Where when you decipher them correctly, they all describe this ancient race that came from this other planet that has this elliptical orbit that comes in between Earth and Mars and Jupiter?

01:32:30.000 Somewhere.

01:32:30.000 It comes near Earth every 3,600 years.

01:32:35.000 And that this group of beings called the Anunnaki created human beings by coming down here and... 1.00

01:32:42.000 Taking them and taking lower primates and injecting their DNA into them and blah blah blah. 0.92

01:32:48.000 We were balls deep into that.

01:32:50.000 That was a big one.

01:32:51.000 Yeah, that Anunnaki type thing like the ancient aliens is like something that's really at the far end of the conspiracy spectrum.

01:32:58.000 But you still get people who are like, you know, chemtrail believers who believe it.

01:33:01.000 Like one of the guys you interviewed, Scott Stevens, is a meteorologist.

01:33:07.000 Yes.

01:33:07.000 Yeah, he was like into like...

01:33:09.000 He believed chemtrails 100%.

01:33:11.000 Yeah, but he also believed in aliens and that type of Anunnaki, like angels and things. 0.99

01:33:16.000 Well, I don't disbelieve in aliens.

01:33:17.000 What I disbelieve is people that are in contact with aliens.

01:33:21.000 I think the idea, you know, the Fermi Paradox, right?

01:33:24.000 The idea that there's so many planets and so many galaxies and so many solar systems at the odds of life being out there so high, why have we not been contacted?

01:33:34.000 That's interesting to me. 0.95

01:33:36.000 It is entirely possible in my estimation as a moron that we are the most advanced life form in the universe. 0.98

01:33:43.000 It's entirely possible because we exist. 0.98

01:33:46.000 Because we are the most advanced life form on Earth.

01:33:49.000 We know that, right?

01:33:51.000 As far as we know.

01:33:52.000 As far as, like, communicating things that we've discovered in 2017, we are the most advanced.

01:33:56.000 It's entirely possible that we're the most advanced everywhere.

01:33:59.000 Someone has to be.

01:34:00.000 Yeah, someone has to be.

01:34:01.000 Someone has to be first.

01:34:01.000 Right.

01:34:01.000 It could be us.

01:34:02.000 Yeah, people say, like, you know, what are the odds, but, you know...

01:34:05.000 What are the odds of us?

01:34:06.000 The first person...

01:34:08.000 Whoever wins the lottery goes, what are the odds?

01:34:10.000 But it happened to that person.

01:34:11.000 It doesn't mean that it's very unlikely.

01:34:12.000 It's not like we run lots of universes and see what happens.

01:34:15.000 Well, also, there's a direct progression that you could follow.

01:34:17.000 Like, what are the odds of someone inventing the iPhone?

01:34:20.000 10 in 2017. Well, I don't know, but that's how long it took.

01:34:25.000 That's what happened.

01:34:26.000 That is exactly what happened.

01:34:28.000 We could track it.

01:34:29.000 We can go back to the iPhone 1 10 years ago.

01:34:31.000 It's real simple.

01:34:32.000 Yeah.

01:34:32.000 People use their argument like, what is the probability?

01:34:36.000 Right.

01:34:36.000 In weird ways.

01:34:37.000 People say, what is the probability of three buildings falling from two planes hitting them?

01:34:45.000 As if that argument actually makes any sense. 0.99

01:34:47.000 It's a shitty argument. 0.98

01:34:47.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:34:48.000 But they bring it up all the time.

01:34:49.000 It's like, what are the odds?

01:34:51.000 Who would get so lucky that you would have three planes, three buildings on the same day?

01:34:55.000 Yeah.

01:34:55.000 That doesn't make any sense.

01:34:57.000 No, it doesn't.

01:34:57.000 But people love to say things like that.

01:34:59.000 But again, it's to support confirmation bias.

01:35:02.000 So I think that it's entirely possible that we're the only advanced life form in the universe.

01:35:07.000 Or it's entirely possible that there are incredibly advanced life forms that really aren't interested in us.

01:35:12.000 Yeah.

01:35:12.000 Or we're being quarantined.

01:35:14.000 Yeah, that's possible too. 1.00

01:35:15.000 Look at our fucking president. 1.00

01:35:17.000 We have a wacky president that just lies all the time. 1.00

01:35:21.000 I mean, out of his fucking mind. 1.00

01:35:22.000 I think they probably started quarantining us a bit earlier than that. 1.00

01:35:25.000 Yeah, but I mean, you would go, these people don't know what the fuck they're doing. 0.99

01:35:29.000 We need to figure out if they're going to blow each other up. 0.99

01:35:32.000 And pay close attention to them, see if they don't poison their water.

01:35:35.000 Like, figure out what they're going to do first before we give them new technology or communicate with them.

01:35:41.000 I think if there's people, if there's things out there, it's probably machines.

01:35:44.000 Whoa.

01:35:45.000 I think it's, you know, you look at the advances in AI and stuff that's going on now.

01:35:51.000 I don't think there's...

01:35:53.000 Many civilizations can really survive.

01:35:57.000 I think biological life has its time.

01:35:59.000 Yeah, because, you know, I don't...

01:36:03.000 People talk about Terminator and Skynet and things like that, and the robots taking over.

01:36:07.000 I think that's actually a real problem.

01:36:11.000 You've seen these robots.

01:36:14.000 They're pretty crappy now, but they've got to the stage where they can do backflips and things.

01:36:20.000 Not too much further along the line.

01:36:22.000 A hundred years.

01:36:24.000 From now.

01:36:25.000 It's like a blink of the universe's eye.

01:36:27.000 We'll have robots that can do everything that humans can do and more.

01:36:31.000 Absolutely.

01:36:32.000 100%.

01:36:32.000 Indistinguishable, too, from people.

01:36:35.000 Yeah.

01:36:35.000 If they choose to be.

01:36:37.000 But not just indistinguishable.

01:36:38.000 They will be humans plus.

01:36:40.000 They will be like gods.

01:36:41.000 Yeah.

01:36:42.000 They will be hundreds, thousands, or millions of times more powerful than humans in terms of their processing power and hundreds of times more powerful in terms of their strength.

01:36:52.000 And that's 100 years from now.

01:36:53.000 Yeah.

01:36:53.000 We're really close to that.

01:36:55.000 Yeah, because it's going to be an explosive thing.

01:36:56.000 There's this thing in AI now called...

01:37:02.000 I'll write it down because I forgot what it was.

01:37:04.000 Generative Adaptive Networks, which is this way of doing AI where the robots basically teach themselves.

01:37:11.000 They have one robot who is judging things, and there's one robot that's creating things.

01:37:16.000 And the robot that's creating things teaches the robot that's judging things how to judge, and the robot that's judging things teaches the creating robot how to create.

01:37:25.000 And then they just go back and forth, back and forth.

01:37:27.000 The old way of doing AI was like you would teach a robot to do things and you'd correct it when it gets wrong and you'd tweak the algorithm.

01:37:33.000 But now you've got these robots that are learning things incredibly rapidly by teaching themselves how to do things.

01:37:39.000 And the humans who are running these robots don't actually understand how this actually works.

01:37:45.000 You end up with this huge big matrix of numbers which no one can actually decipher but the results come out of it.

01:37:54.000 They've got things like now where you can take a scene in a video and you can turn night into day or you can turn a snow scene into a summer scene because the AI knows how to do these things.

01:38:08.000 And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

01:38:10.000 There's so much more coming down the line.

01:38:12.000 Yeah, I saw something that was incredibly disturbing.

01:38:14.000 They said that when robots become sentient, like when they have the ability to make up their own decisions and do things for themselves, the first thing they're going to do is improve upon their own design.

01:38:27.000 Yeah.

01:38:28.000 And they will be able to have 10,000 years of human, like if humans were evolving technology, a robot or a sentient AI could do 10,000 years worth of technological advancement in two weeks.

01:38:45.000 Yeah.

01:38:46.000 Is that real?

01:38:47.000 Yeah.

01:38:48.000 Because computers just run so much faster.

01:38:51.000 Just think about that number.

01:38:53.000 Two weeks.

01:38:54.000 So think about how long ago 10,000 years ago was.

01:38:57.000 First civilization.

01:38:58.000 It's probably a little bit optimistic in terms of like actual physical development because they can't make prototypes fast enough to try them out.

01:39:05.000 Maybe they can.

01:39:05.000 They don't sleep.

01:39:06.000 They keep going.

01:39:06.000 Yeah, they will.

01:39:07.000 They'll have these little robots then. 1.00

01:39:09.000 It's going to be fucked. 0.99

01:39:09.000 Robots can move so much faster than people. 0.99

01:39:11.000 So what do we do? 1.00

01:39:12.000 Kill them? 1.00

01:39:13.000 Go back to a pioneer? 1.00

01:39:15.000 Get a nice axe?

01:39:16.000 Some scientists are saying that we should actually put the brakes on this AI. A lot of them, right?

01:39:21.000 Yeah.

01:39:22.000 But it's a funny thing.

01:39:23.000 It seems like we're moving towards the edge of the cliff, and everyone's going, hey, we should probably hit the brakes soon.

01:39:28.000 It's also such a lucrative thing for people to do, because if you get really good AI, you can sell it.

01:39:33.000 And the army is going to want robot soldiers.

01:39:36.000 Yeah, you've got these drones with guns mounted on them. 0.93

01:39:40.000 Yeah, if you imagine you've got like your That scares the shit out of me. 0.60

01:39:43.000 What are you showing me here, James? 0.82

01:39:44.000 I'm going to hit play.

01:39:45.000 It's really fast.

01:39:46.000 It's sorting ripe tomatoes really quick.

01:39:51.000 It'll slow it down here in a second so you can see how fast it's doing.

01:39:54.000 Whoa.

01:39:54.000 How can it see the...

01:39:56.000 Oh my god.

01:39:57.000 So it sees the green tomatoes and it just knocks them out?

01:40:00.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:40:01.000 What the fuck? 0.99

01:40:02.000 Because the computer is essentially seeing what Wes is seeing now. 0.99

01:40:05.000 But how is it hitting them so perfect?

01:40:08.000 That's insane.

01:40:09.000 So as they're coming down this ramp...

01:40:12.000 These computers are...

01:40:14.000 Oh my god, that's in real time?

01:40:16.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:40:16.000 Holy shit, dude! 0.99

01:40:17.000 So it's got this computer vision that's processing it. 0.99

01:40:20.000 And because computers are fast enough to do this now... 1.00

01:40:22.000 Oh my god, we're fucked. 0.99

01:40:23.000 It's just gonna get faster. 1.00

01:40:25.000 We're so fucked. 1.00

01:40:26.000 That scares the shit out of me more than the back-flipping robot. 1.00

01:40:30.000 Imagine that back-flipping robot can actually move really fast.

01:40:34.000 Yeah, well, that's what Elon Musk said.

01:40:36.000 You won't be able to see him unless you have a strobe light.

01:40:39.000 Yeah, and they're going to be super accurate shooting things.

01:40:43.000 Take your eye out.

01:40:44.000 Yeah, they're not going to have any trigger panic.

01:40:46.000 They're just going to be able to execute.

01:40:48.000 They'll be like robots. 1.00

01:40:49.000 God damn it. 0.99

01:40:50.000 So that's real. 0.99

01:40:52.000 That's a real conspiracy.

01:40:53.000 Put down the chemtrails, walk away from the flat earth, and understand that there's sentient robots.

01:41:00.000 Okay, you have a background in computers.

01:41:03.000 What was your take on that whole thing when Google had to shut down these two computers communicating with each other?

01:41:11.000 Because they started talking in a language that they didn't understand?

01:41:14.000 Yeah, I mean, that's what I was talking about there with the generative adaptive networks.

01:41:18.000 They...

01:41:22.000 They didn't have to shut them down.

01:41:23.000 But they did, because they were a little freaked out.

01:41:25.000 They shut them down because they couldn't do anything with them.

01:41:28.000 It was the two computers talking to each other in gobbledygook.

01:41:31.000 So if it was something interesting, they would have kept them and studied it.

01:41:35.000 But do you think that they knew what the computers were saying?

01:41:37.000 The computers knew what they were saying to each other?

01:41:39.000 No.

01:41:40.000 It was just some kind of loop that they got stuck in.

01:41:42.000 It probably wasn't particularly intelligent or anything.

01:41:45.000 It's so much more ominous to say that they invented the language.

01:41:48.000 They weren't like plotting to take over the world.

01:41:50.000 How do you know?

01:41:51.000 Because we aren't there yet.

01:41:53.000 If they could do that, they would have already done it.

01:41:55.000 The first things computers do is sexually harass each other. 1.00

01:41:58.000 They send computer dick pics. 0.99

01:42:02.000 What would that even look like? 0.99

01:42:03.000 I asked you the other day, like, what's the AI gender going to be?

01:42:06.000 Has anyone decided or has it been talked about?

01:42:09.000 Maybe that's what's going on with all this crazy push to accept 78 different gender pronouns and non-binary people and all this stuff that didn't exist in the past.

01:42:20.000 Maybe there's like a natural inclination in the human species to move towards a genderless prototype of the future. 1.00

01:42:30.000 Hmm.

01:42:30.000 We went into this in depth yesterday under the influence, obviously.

01:42:34.000 We did a podcast where we were talking about what an alien is, the archetype alien with the big head and the very thin body and the mouth that's barely visible.

01:42:45.000 I think that this is probably what we see ourselves becoming when we have some sort of a symbiotic relationship with technology, where technology becomes a part of us, when we have the ability to manipulate genes, which is absolutely coming, and then we have This enormous head,

01:43:02.000 which, I mean, look at our heads, right?

01:43:05.000 It's not very practical, the enormous head.

01:43:07.000 Neil deGrasse Tyson was talking about this recently.

01:43:08.000 Whipping all over the place.

01:43:09.000 He was talking to Ray Kurzweil in a podcast that I was listening to.

01:43:14.000 Ray Kurzweil, the futurist.

01:43:16.000 And they were talking about the size of a human head.

01:43:18.000 And that a human head could only get so big because of the mortality issue with the mother.

01:43:24.000 Like, if the mother could not give birth, the head can only be so big.

01:43:29.000 And that's also one of the reasons why...

01:43:31.000 They're folding over the skull.

01:43:32.000 Yeah.

01:43:32.000 And our heads are so big that we have to be born like almost helpless as opposed to like other animals that are born.

01:43:40.000 They're pretty agile, like right out of the box, like a deer or a horse or something like that.

01:43:45.000 Even primates, like young primates have very little body fat on them and they're much stronger than a young human baby.

01:43:53.000 And that the design of the vagina and the head like leaves like little room for advancement in the Yeah, it's gone as far as it can go. 1.00

01:44:02.000 But if we move away, I was thinking, from vaginas. 1.00

01:44:07.000 Nothing wrong with vaginas, ladies. 1.00

01:44:10.000 That's not what I'm saying. 0.98

01:44:11.000 But what I'm saying is move towards some sort of, you know...

01:44:15.000 A vat?

01:44:15.000 Yeah, something.

01:44:17.000 Put together in some sort of a new concoction, some sort of a new...

01:44:39.000 Oh, you think so?

01:44:46.000 Yeah, but I think like with the big head thing, like I don't think you need to grow bigger brains for humans.

01:44:49.000 You could probably do a lot better by having some kind of implant.

01:44:53.000 Right.

01:44:53.000 Some kind of silicon type thing in there, a little computer running in your brain.

01:44:56.000 But what if you had a huge computer, like a hundred iPhones?

01:45:01.000 Dun, dun, dun.

01:45:03.000 You can't really have bigger brains as well because there's a limit to the blood supply.

01:45:06.000 Like, your brain is already using, like, 30%.

01:45:07.000 If you're using blood.

01:45:08.000 So you can have to, like, oxygen tanks strapped to your back.

01:45:11.000 What if we go away from all that stuff?

01:45:13.000 What if they figure out some sort of a fission way?

01:45:16.000 You know, just have, like, a, whoa, what is this?

01:45:20.000 They pulled a lamb out and had it in an artificial womb and it survived for a few weeks at least. 1.00

01:45:25.000 How fucked up are we?

01:45:27.000 We're like a few weeks and it worked a little sort of science fiction now what yeah, but I think that's entirely possible for the future and then the idea of human beings moving away from Biological bodies If they figure out a way to download consciousness, 0.99

01:45:44.000 which is one of Kurzweil's things, right?

01:45:45.000 They figure out a way to get to a point where consciousness is something that can be transferred.

01:45:50.000 Yeah.

01:45:50.000 That's a freaky idea, though.

01:45:52.000 Freaky to me because of someone like Kim Jong-un. 0.97

01:45:54.000 He makes a thousand of himself and, you know, fucking puts them all over the world. 0.97

01:45:59.000 Well, it's like, what if, like, you know, your consciousness gets taken over, but it's... 0.99

01:46:03.000 You actually die.

01:46:06.000 Whoa.

01:46:06.000 And you just...

01:46:07.000 This robot facsimile of you is what continues.

01:46:10.000 Yeah.

01:46:11.000 What if you make two copies of yourself?

01:46:13.000 Yeah.

01:46:14.000 One of them is a skydiver.

01:46:16.000 You try out bull riding.

01:46:18.000 If you can download someone's consciousness, you can copy it.

01:46:21.000 Can you imagine if that's what you decided to do? 0.99

01:46:23.000 You just do all reckless shit with one of your bodies. 0.99

01:46:26.000 You start MMA fighting. 0.99

01:46:27.000 And then would you download that experience back into your other body?

01:46:31.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:46:31.000 Or just die. 1.00

01:46:32.000 No, you would download it.

01:46:33.000 You'd have the other body on steroids, and you'd have the other body working out the Olympic Training Center and turn the other body into a super athlete, and then the one that you're skydiving and doing backflips with.

01:46:45.000 I think the augmented brains are going to come along before things like that, though.

01:46:48.000 I think you're right.

01:46:49.000 Yeah, something with AI that's coming along is like chatbots on the internet actually creating content.

01:46:56.000 Yes.

01:46:56.000 Not just creating talking things like posts on YouTube.

01:47:00.000 They can create pictures.

01:47:01.000 These networks I was talking about can actually create videos that look like real videos.

01:47:08.000 So I think you're going to get actual content creators, which are artificial intelligence, like YouTube personalities, that are actually artificial intelligence.

01:47:17.000 Robots.

01:47:17.000 Jesus.

01:47:18.000 But some of them will be overt, like, you know, here's Google's new bot, you know, posting on the internet, going, hey everybody, I'm Google!

01:47:25.000 And then you'll get people, you'll get AIs pretending to be real people.

01:47:30.000 And then you'll get these AIs pretending to be real people in thousands if not millions of social media accounts trying to influence people.

01:47:40.000 Wow. 0.98

01:47:41.000 And you talk about botnets and things, but they're just like people just posting shit, like reposting memes and things. 0.97

01:47:47.000 What if you actually get an artificial intelligence that can actually hold a conversation with someone, and an artificial intelligence that's actually more intelligent than the person that it's holding the conversation with? 0.93

01:47:59.000 It would be able to manipulate that person and control them.

01:48:02.000 And since it's just a computer doing it, you could have thousands or millions of them.

01:48:08.000 And you can do all kinds of targeted social media campaigns.

01:48:12.000 Well, don't they say that's going on right now?

01:48:13.000 Yeah, but they're not actually like...

01:48:16.000 It's not an artificial intelligence having a real conversation with people.

01:48:21.000 We're on the verge of that.

01:48:22.000 But they do have artificial bots that will go out and attack people.

01:48:26.000 Yeah.

01:48:27.000 They do have things along those lines.

01:48:28.000 They're simplistic things.

01:48:29.000 They're spamming things.

01:48:29.000 You can tell they're a bot fairly easily.

01:48:32.000 For now.

01:48:32.000 Yeah.

01:48:33.000 But we're getting to the stage where you won't be able to tell that it's a bot.

01:48:35.000 Yeah.

01:48:35.000 There'll be someone who would be, you know, in a few decades there'll be people, there'll be artificial intelligences that will be just as intelligent as you or me and will be able to have the same conversations on social media that you and I can have on social media right now and people won't be able to tell the difference.

01:48:54.000 There's this big famous test in AI, which is the Turing test, where the test is someone sits in a room with a typewriter and they talk to the computer in the other room and if they can tell it's a computer, then it passes the Turing test and it's meant to be intelligent.

01:49:08.000 If you can't tell that it's a computer.

01:49:10.000 Yeah, if you can't tell it's a computer.

01:49:11.000 So there's been very limited successes with that.

01:49:14.000 If you restrict the topics to just baseball or Britney Spears or something like that, they have these very limited domains that they can talk about.

01:49:22.000 But if you get a general-purpose AI that is actually intelligent and can and has goals to change someone's mind about something like politics You could have a real problem.

01:49:32.000 Well, we were talking about Duncan and I yesterday were saying think about Someone creating an artificial version of him based on the hundreds of hours of his audio recordings Because he has so many podcasts as do I you know if somebody wanted to take a podcast Like mine where there's a thousand episodes and take those thousand plus episodes and Take my opinions and the way I describe things the way I talk Which I mean like if you're talking to me in a podcast like this you're just talking

01:50:03.000 to me This is what I talk like so and you get a bunch of variables, right?

01:50:06.000 You get me excited me depressed me shocked me sad me happy You would have so much to choose from yeah, you could kind of material You could kind of like fill in the blanks and guess pretty accurately how I would react or respond to certain things.

01:50:23.000 Yeah, one of the episodes of Black Mirror, a British TV show.

01:50:28.000 Great show.

01:50:28.000 Yeah, it was about some woman whose husband had died, but she had all this video of it.

01:50:35.000 There was a service that set up...

01:50:38.000 An AI version of him and it starts out small like someone who would post on social media as him and eventually it grew to be this big thing.

01:50:47.000 Don't tell me.

01:50:47.000 Don't spoiler alert me.

01:50:48.000 All right.

01:50:49.000 I just watched an episode of it the other day.

01:50:50.000 I've been saving that one for you.

01:50:52.000 I didn't want to tell you about it.

01:50:53.000 Thank you.

01:50:54.000 It's a good episode.

01:50:54.000 Oh, it's so good.

01:50:55.000 I watched one the other day about the video games that they put that thing in the back of your head.

01:50:59.000 Did you see that one?

01:51:00.000 It's in the new season.

01:51:02.000 It's episode two. 0.99

01:51:03.000 God damn, it's good. 0.99

01:51:04.000 That's a great show. 0.99

01:51:05.000 New one's come out in a couple weeks.

01:51:07.000 Three weeks, maybe.

01:51:08.000 It's a good show.

01:51:09.000 Mrs. Rogan does not like it, though. 0.99

01:51:11.000 It's freaked out.

01:51:11.000 It is a bit creepy.

01:51:12.000 I think she hears too much of that shit from me, too. 0.99

01:51:15.000 She just gets freaked out on technology and the future and the possibilities. 0.99

01:51:19.000 But yeah, like making a fake Joe Rogan is something that, you know, is possible to a degree.

01:51:23.000 Super easy.

01:51:24.000 Right now, you could probably do something if they put enough resources in just, you know, just Joe Rogan.

01:51:29.000 Yeah.

01:51:29.000 They could have something.

01:51:30.000 Because this type of, you know, the generative adversarial networks, this thing where they've got one judge and one generator.

01:51:39.000 They'll have one AI that just tries to make Joe Rogans. 0.99

01:51:43.000 And then they'll have another AI that an expert at detecting the real Joe Rogan.

01:51:47.000 And it'll have all this real material...

01:51:49.000 To go by.

01:51:50.000 And then this will keep feeding things to this and he'll say, that's not quite right.

01:51:53.000 He doesn't say like that.

01:51:54.000 He narrows his eyes when he's confused.

01:51:57.000 And eventually it will come up with something that resembles you.

01:52:02.000 Well, then it becomes a thing of like, how do you know you're you?

01:52:07.000 And how do you know you're talking to someone else that's them?

01:52:11.000 Like, here's the thing.

01:52:13.000 Let's just say... 1.00

01:52:15.000 Why'd you leave this rubber dick just sitting right here, man? 1.00

01:52:17.000 That's just rude. 1.00

01:52:20.000 Chris Ryan gave me a rubber dick. 1.00

01:52:21.000 Sorry. 1.00

01:52:22.000 I just noticed it.

01:52:23.000 I looked over.

01:52:23.000 I had a comment.

01:52:25.000 Let's say your father died, which is one of Ray Kurzweil's big things.

01:52:33.000 One of his primary motivations is to recreate his father.

01:52:37.000 He lost his father when he was young, and he believes that through the advent of artificial intelligence and through the data that he's collected, the recordings of his father and the images, that one day he will literally be able to communicate with his father again.

01:52:54.000 I don't know if that's real, but I do know that someone like Duncan, say if my friend Duncan died, it's entirely possible that within the next 50 years, they're going to be able to create a version of Duncan, and Duncan can come over and say, Hi, dude, I'm back!

01:53:09.000 Hey! 0.99

01:53:10.000 Crazy, I was dead, and I won't even know.

01:53:13.000 I won't know if it's really Duncan.

01:53:14.000 You've got to watch this episode of Black Mirror, then.

01:53:16.000 Okay, don't tell me anymore.

01:53:17.000 Don't tell me anymore.

01:53:19.000 What is it?

01:53:20.000 I'm trying to remember where I found this.

01:53:21.000 I think it was an NPR episode.

01:53:22.000 It might have been on Radiolab.

01:53:24.000 A thing called DadBot.

01:53:25.000 This guy made literally a text.

01:53:27.000 He'd used all of his dad's past text messages between himself and him and then made an AI bot he could chat with.

01:53:34.000 And I think his brother can use it too.

01:53:36.000 They can just send generic messages like, hey, how are you doing?

01:53:38.000 And you send something that he would have sent back. 1.00

01:53:40.000 I mean, all your dad's like, shut up, faggot. 1.00

01:53:42.000 Your dad just says rude shit to you. 1.00

01:53:44.000 You little pussy. 1.00

01:53:45.000 You're never going to amount to nothing. 1.00

01:53:46.000 Oh, DadBot.

01:53:47.000 Yeah, and if that's what your dad was like, then it would do that.

01:53:52.000 You could probably tweak it a bit, though.

01:53:53.000 You could ask him to dial it down.

01:53:55.000 That type of thing is coming, though.

01:53:57.000 With his text now, and it's not very good, you'd be able to tell it's not a real person.

01:54:02.000 Did you like Ex Machina?

01:54:05.000 What was that?

01:54:06.000 The movie?

01:54:06.000 You never saw it?

01:54:07.000 Oh, yeah.

01:54:08.000 I did see it.

01:54:09.000 But I forget movies very quickly.

01:54:13.000 How dare you forget that one?

01:54:13.000 That's an amazing one.

01:54:15.000 What was the plot real quick?

01:54:16.000 The plot was, there was like some...

01:54:19.000 This one.

01:54:19.000 Did you see that?

01:54:20.000 Yeah.

01:54:20.000 Where she's in a house.

01:54:22.000 Super scientist.

01:54:23.000 Yeah.

01:54:23.000 Who lived in the middle of nowhere and had to be flown into him and he had created that guy right there, created artificial intelligence and then went over the Turing test and everything in that too.

01:54:30.000 It's one of my favorite movies.

01:54:32.000 That's one of my top ten favorite movies of all time. 0.98

01:54:35.000 It hit so close to home and there was so little cut the shit in that movie. 0.99

01:54:38.000 You know, I describe movies based on the cut the shit scenes. 0.99

01:54:42.000 Like some movies are like, what? 1.00

01:54:44.000 Oh, fuck. 1.00

01:54:45.000 Cut the shit. 1.00

01:54:46.000 How the hell did that happen? 1.00

01:54:47.000 There was none of that in that movie to me.

01:54:49.000 That movie to me was like, wow, this all could take place.

01:54:54.000 Especially with these future robot things, so much of it is just trying to make a robot that's just like a human, when the robots are not going to be like humans.

01:55:03.000 They're going to be like Cylons.

01:55:04.000 There's going to be more than humans.

01:55:06.000 By your command.

01:55:07.000 Robots that are doing work, they're not going to really look like humans because it's not very practical.

01:55:11.000 There will be robots that look exactly like humans, but that's just one aspect of robots.

01:55:14.000 There's going to be all kinds of much more impressive robots.

01:55:17.000 Well, like, think of that tomato robot that's knocking.

01:55:20.000 It didn't have to look like a person.

01:55:22.000 It just has to be functional.

01:55:22.000 The way for it to be functional is not to look like a person.

01:55:25.000 Exactly.

01:55:26.000 Just to have these multiple fingers that can knock away these green tomatoes. 0.85

01:55:29.000 Yeah.

01:55:30.000 So why build something around the limitations of the human body?

01:55:33.000 This is the same guy that is in that Black Mirror episode, too.

01:55:37.000 Oh, crazy.

01:55:39.000 He plays the AI guy.

01:55:40.000 Do you think they're going to do a reboot or a sequel to Ex Machina?

01:55:45.000 I had heard they were going to.

01:55:48.000 Sure.

01:55:48.000 Why wouldn't they?

01:55:49.000 They fucking better. 0.99

01:55:50.000 It was a really good movie and made a bunch of money. 0.99

01:55:52.000 It was amazing.

01:55:53.000 They better.

01:55:55.000 I am worried about that.

01:55:56.000 I am worried, and I'm also worried by the fact that guys like Elon Musk are worried.

01:56:02.000 That when someone like that worries and starts talking about it, I'm like, well, who is paying attention to this?

01:56:09.000 I mean, how many people are really at the forefront?

01:56:10.000 And is it possible to pull that back?

01:56:12.000 Because I'm aware of what the United States is up to in terms of what gets printed in the news.

01:56:17.000 Obviously, I'm not really aware.

01:56:19.000 But when you get further than that, like China, Russia, we have no idea what they're doing.

01:56:25.000 Yeah, and they must be doing this type of thing.

01:56:26.000 They must be.

01:56:27.000 And if you don't, they will.

01:56:28.000 And it's one of those things.

01:56:30.000 AI is something they don't need this huge physical infrastructure.

01:56:34.000 They don't need a big military or anything to do, like cyber warfare, with AI. Fuck. 1.00

01:56:39.000 So they could be developing all this artificial intelligence to do things like infiltrate everybody's social media and make them vote for the different guy. 1.00

01:56:48.000 Yeah.

01:56:49.000 Or just infiltrate all our power stations and shut them all down.

01:56:52.000 That's one of the real problems that I have today with the conversations regarding politics, regarding whether or not Russia hacked the election, is because people are so concerned with painting out their party to be innocent and the other party to be guilty and describing all the different things that the Russians did and the interference and all the subterfuge that's being used that I think we're missing out on

01:57:22.000 this idea that you can electronically affect the way people think about things if you have enough resources to attack an idea with propaganda through bots.

01:57:39.000 And this is something that you see all the time.

01:57:41.000 Yeah, a lot of the stuff that Russia did was posted in closed groups on Facebook.

01:57:48.000 So it's something that you really wouldn't be able to see happening.

01:57:52.000 You'd have to be a part of the group.

01:57:53.000 So someone infiltrates?

01:57:55.000 Yeah, they join these groups.

01:57:57.000 And they have, not bots so much, but like, you know, workers.

01:58:02.000 They have these sweatshops where all these people are typing away, doing all kinds of stuff, pushing out these stories.

01:58:08.000 And they go into these closed groups because it's harder for people to figure out what's going on if you're in a closed group.

01:58:14.000 And they post all this stuff, all these, you know, whatever, anti-Hillary memes or whatever.

01:58:19.000 Right.

01:58:20.000 Pro-Donald Trump, like, pro-Bernie.

01:58:23.000 Yeah, I saw one of them.

01:58:24.000 They're trying to push a certain narrative.

01:58:25.000 One of them where the guy got busted because he accidentally had on his location and showed that he was in Russia.

01:58:32.000 And, you know, he's some guy with hashtag MAGA, you know, with the American flag and his avatar and the whole deal.

01:58:41.000 Yeah, it's going to be really hard to figure out exactly what happened, but it's going to be even harder in the future, though, because people will be covering the tracks a lot better.

01:58:49.000 They're learning what works.

01:58:51.000 But it's really hard to figure out what's real and what's not real right now.

01:58:55.000 You know, remember Wag the Dog?

01:58:57.000 What was that, like 20 years ago?

01:58:58.000 Yeah.

01:58:59.000 In that movie they described the possibility of faking these conflicts and having this fake video and having movie directors film everything and it would influence the way people thought about world conflicts.

01:59:11.000 And now we're getting to a stage where that technology is a lot more realistic than faking videos.

01:59:16.000 You were pretty close.

01:59:17.000 There are things where you can take audio now and just basically sample audio and create anything that person might say.

01:59:25.000 Yeah, that was a Radiolab podcast where they did it, and it's still a little crude, but like most things.

01:59:32.000 I mean, you go back to the very first Oculus Rift, which was only a few years ago, and it was pixelated and clunky looking.

01:59:41.000 But if you look at the HTC Vive now, their virtual reality is pretty spectacular.

01:59:46.000 You can still tell it's not real, but man, the experience is so much more immersive.

01:59:51.000 Yeah, I remember reading a book back in the 90s.

01:59:53.000 I think it was Less Than Zero by Brett Easton Ellis.

01:59:56.000 Yeah.

01:59:57.000 And there's a scene in that where they map somebody's face onto a porn actor.

02:00:04.000 And at the time, I thought that was the most ridiculously stupid thing I've ever heard of because it would never possibly work and there's no way of getting that degree of accuracy.

02:00:12.000 And now I've got an app in my iPhone that actually does it to a reasonable degree, where it's quite hard sometimes to see what's going on. 0.51

02:00:20.000 There's this thing called Mug Life, which is just a toy app where you take a picture of yourself and it instantly maps it onto a 3D face.

02:00:30.000 And you can do all these expressions and you can say these things.

02:00:33.000 It has these meme generators.

02:00:35.000 And it's basically, you know, it's that type of thing, which I thought was ridiculous speculation like 20 years ago, but now it's come to pass.

02:00:44.000 Well, there's an article that I tweeted today about Gal Gadot, who is the woman from Wonder Woman.

02:00:51.000 They use an algorithm, and they tape her face onto a porn video.

02:00:55.000 So they have her doing porn, and it looks just like her.

02:00:59.000 You can kind of tell a little bit that it's not her, but not much.

02:01:04.000 It's enough where you're like, whoa, they're going to get really good at this, and then they'll be able to have you doing anything.

02:01:11.000 You could be a murderer.

02:01:12.000 They can have you outside murdering people, and they put that on the news.

02:01:16.000 And then by the time they retract it, they say, oh, Mick West wasn't really out there just gunning people down.

02:01:22.000 It was someone else.

02:01:23.000 Your neighbors don't trust you anymore.

02:01:25.000 You have to move.

02:01:26.000 The damage is done.

02:01:27.000 You know, and that's... 0.99

02:01:28.000 Not that I support, like, a lot of the fucking hysterics and the craziness that Trump tweets and all the different shit that he tweets, but occasionally they get things wrong, and they make stories about him, like the CNN Russia story, 0.99

02:01:43.000 where they had to fire those three... 0.99

02:01:45.000 Yeah.

02:01:46.000 Yeah.

02:01:46.000 Well, after they had fired those reporters who had made these erroneous connections and had this, like...

02:01:52.000 Flaw-ridden piece.

02:01:54.000 They fired them, but the story had already been written.

02:01:59.000 I guess there's a rush to get things out there, and they're trying very hard.

02:02:04.000 But you've got to be very careful because once something's out there, that initial thing of being out there is so much more powerful than any retraction.

02:02:10.000 Yeah, it's really hard to get retractions out because the original thing just goes so much more than the retraction.

02:02:16.000 Yeah, especially if it's crazy.

02:02:18.000 Like the Roy Moore thing, which is going on right now, there's the election today.

02:02:23.000 There's a thing where they said that his signature was fake because the ink on the image was black on one side and blue on the other side.

02:02:32.000 And so they said, oh, this must have been faked because the Roy is black and the Moore is blue.

02:02:38.000 I was looking into that and I did some experiments where I did a signature and then held it at an angle and took photos of it and I found out that there's this type of chromatic aberration from the camera which just does that with ink.

02:02:52.000 And it's very easy to duplicate and you can show that this was actually what was going on in this image and then you can look at other images of the signature from different angles which show that it's all black.

02:03:02.000 So there's this one image on CNN that showed this blue and black ink.

02:03:06.000 And then I figured out that it was just this trick of the camera.

02:03:11.000 But even though it's been debunked and explained, people are still spreading the exact same thing around.

02:03:18.000 Right, that's not real.

02:03:19.000 And that could be a problem.

02:03:20.000 It could swing the election.

02:03:21.000 Yeah, and it's time-limited, that type of thing.

02:03:24.000 It's done today.

02:03:25.000 After today, it doesn't really matter.

02:03:26.000 There was also something about him writing something in someone's yearbook.

02:03:31.000 Yeah, that was the yearbook thing, was the signature.

02:03:34.000 The thing was, they said that the woman had forged the entry to the yearbook, but that's not the case.

02:03:40.000 What she had done was written the date.

02:03:43.000 And the note, the oldie pickery house.

02:03:48.000 Yes, but she didn't forge the actual words.

02:03:52.000 But that's a problem.

02:03:54.000 The problem is that she did do it, and she didn't say she did it.

02:03:58.000 So many people want that to be true, that it was forged, that if you can take something that's slightly problematic, like her not saying that she actually added this annotation afterwards, and then you can say that she admitted to it being forged,

02:04:13.000 which is basically a lie.

02:04:15.000 Yes.

02:04:16.000 But it will stick for long enough.

02:04:18.000 It doesn't really matter that it's a lie, because by the end of today, it doesn't really matter at all.

02:04:24.000 So all he had to do was get this story out there.

02:04:27.000 He had enough stuff in it to make it seem vaguely plausible to people who wanted to believe that she forged it.

02:04:33.000 Did she forge the date, and did she try to say that that date was written by him?

02:04:39.000 She added a note underneath that had the date, but he had also written the date above.

02:04:44.000 He wrote, like, you know, to a sweeter, more darling girl, I could never say Merry Christmas, Roy Moore, 77. And then underneath, she had written Old Hickory House, 1977. And did she try to claim that he had written that?

02:05:00.000 Originally, it seemed like she was saying that he'd written the whole thing.

02:05:04.000 And she read out the inscription and she said, Roy Moore wrote this in my book, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

02:05:10.000 And she read the annotation at the end.

02:05:13.000 Was the annotation at the end recent?

02:05:15.000 Yeah, I think she said she wrote it like afterwards, like, you know, after she... 0.80

02:05:20.000 Oh, like 78 or some shit? 0.68

02:05:22.000 No, the same day. 0.99

02:05:22.000 Oh, so how the fuck could she even remember? 0.99

02:05:25.000 How do you remember what you wrote down from 1977? 0.97

02:05:29.000 And the handwriting is a bit different between them, so...

02:05:31.000 It was fairly obvious that it wasn't the same handwriting from the start.

02:05:35.000 So I don't think that's like her today trying to frame him.

02:05:38.000 That seems more like she was just documenting it at the time and forgot.

02:05:42.000 If anything, it makes it more realistic.

02:05:45.000 If she was going to forge it, she would have forged the whole thing.

02:05:48.000 Well, she's talking about something 40 years ago.

02:05:51.000 Like, how...

02:05:51.000 Yeah.

02:05:52.000 That's...

02:05:52.000 This whole thing of trying to...

02:05:56.000 Like, someone saying that this definitely happened 40 years ago is, to me, so bonkers.

02:06:02.000 Like, how the hell could you...

02:06:03.000 And this is a real problem with, like, the news.

02:06:06.000 You know, like...

02:06:08.000 One of the Al Franken accusers we were talking about yesterday claimed that Al had grabbed her waist and squoze her fat in some sort of way. 1.00

02:06:16.000 She's talking about something 10 years ago.

02:06:19.000 Like, you absolutely remember what happened in something so inconsequential 10 years ago?

02:06:25.000 That seems insane to me. 0.99

02:06:26.000 Now, you add 30 years onto that, and I'm just calling bullshit. 0.97

02:06:30.000 Yeah, you can't really remember that level of detail. 0.95

02:06:34.000 I mean, it would have to be something really significant.

02:06:38.000 But even then, you know about creative memories and how people's memories change over time.

02:06:43.000 A lot of people claim they remember where they were when they heard about the space shuttle blowing up, the first one.

02:06:50.000 People have done extensive research into that, tracking people's stories over a decade or so, and they found that a significant percentage of people changed their stories ten years later as to about where they were.

02:07:03.000 So for something like...

02:07:06.000 Harassment or something like that, it's entirely possible that the story could change.

02:07:10.000 Doesn't mean that it's false, but it's just possible that it could change.

02:07:13.000 But it's just they're conveniently forgetting or ignoring that human memory is insanely flawed and malleable.

02:07:21.000 Yeah, I think that's why we have statute of limitations because things like eyewitness testimony essentially degrades over time.

02:07:29.000 That's one of the things that I'm really hoping is going to be cured with technology. 0.97

02:07:33.000 I'm hoping we're going to give up our bullshit biological memory for a fat SD card they stick in the back of your head. 0.98

02:07:41.000 Just pop that sucker in there and click and you'll have all of your memories entirely accurate. 0.99

02:07:47.000 Like, that was a Black Mirror episode, too. 0.96

02:07:49.000 It was, yes. 1.00

02:07:50.000 Those motherfuckers are on top of everything. 1.00

02:07:52.000 They know everything. 0.99

02:07:52.000 But I really think that that's entirely possible in the future, that there's going to be some way we have a neural interface with some sort of a recording device that's far more accurate. 0.99

02:08:03.000 And that we'll all agree to it.

02:08:05.000 We'll all agree to it, just like photographs.

02:08:08.000 Like, if Jamie is standing next to...

02:08:11.000 You and I say, Jamie and Mick West were in the room together and take a picture.

02:08:15.000 It used to be that I could say, well, that's definite because I have this photo.

02:08:19.000 But now with Photoshop and video editing tools, so even then, so what am I talking about?

02:08:25.000 Because even then your memories are going to be able to create artificial memories.

02:08:27.000 You're going to have artificial intelligence getting into your brain and creating memories for you.

02:08:31.000 Well, wasn't that like Total Recall, right?

02:08:34.000 Wasn't that part of the idea of Total Recall?

02:08:35.000 They could put fake memories in your brain and have you have fake experiences?

02:08:43.000 There's a lot of experiences that were gigantic to me.

02:08:47.000 Like, all of my years of martial arts competition.

02:08:51.000 If you had asked me to like accurately depict some of the most significant memories of my life from like age 16 to 21, like all those martial arts fights that I had, I wouldn't even be able to touch it.

02:09:06.000 I have like flashes.

02:09:10.000 Yeah, I'm starting to forget all the stuff I did at Neversoft when I was working on Tony Hawk.

02:09:14.000 I just got interviewed for doing a documentary about the history of Neversoft and Tony Hawk.

02:09:20.000 And the guy's interviewing me and I'm like, I can't remember.

02:09:23.000 And it was like 20 years ago.

02:09:26.000 It's that type of thing that I thought I would never forget.

02:09:29.000 Right.

02:09:30.000 Because it was such a significant part of my life, but it's just kind of dropping away over the years.

02:09:35.000 I think that happens a lot with, you know, people are looking back on 9-11 and they're going by their memories of what happened that day.

02:09:43.000 Yeah.

02:09:44.000 It changes.

02:09:44.000 Your memory changes.

02:09:45.000 Yeah, there's a few things that I remember because there's some significance to it.

02:09:51.000 Like, I remember the space shuttle thing because I was over at an ex-girlfriend's house and it was one of the few times that we saw each other before we had completely stopped seeing each other.

02:10:03.000 Like, we had kind of broken up, and then I'd driven out to her house to visit her, and then while I was over her house, we saw the launch, and we were like, holy shit.

02:10:11.000 We actually saw the replay of it blowing up, and we were like, whoa. 0.99

02:10:15.000 Like, this is fucked. 0.97

02:10:17.000 See, some people, they see the replay, and then they remember that as seeing the actual event itself live, and so they think they saw it live. 0.99

02:10:24.000 So that becomes a memory.

02:10:25.000 I'm pretty good at that.

02:10:27.000 I'm pretty good at going over my memories to make sure that I'm...

02:10:31.000 You think you are.

02:10:32.000 Maybe you should go back and check some of these memories.

02:10:37.000 Find your ex-girlfriend and ask her if that really happened.

02:10:39.000 I remember very clearly where I was when Sam Kinison died.

02:10:44.000 I remember definitely where I was when 9-11 happened.

02:10:47.000 Because I got some calls from friends and they woke me up.

02:10:50.000 My phone kept ringing.

02:10:51.000 I remember that.

02:10:52.000 I remember being in my house.

02:10:54.000 I remember turning on the TV. That's 100%.

02:10:56.000 I was driving to work.

02:10:57.000 I was on the 405. So I remember that.

02:10:59.000 It seems to me very solidly.

02:11:01.000 Seems.

02:11:02.000 There are details around that.

02:11:03.000 I remember I went to Taco Bell on the way to get some food because I thought it might be a long day.

02:11:10.000 Because of the tax?

02:11:12.000 Now I can't remember now.

02:11:15.000 I went to a gas station.

02:11:16.000 I think I went to Taco Bell.

02:11:18.000 Dang it.

02:11:19.000 Now I'm starting to forget what happened on 9-11.

02:11:22.000 I remember the day because I spent it with Eddie and Joey Diaz and a couple other friends of mine.

02:11:27.000 We went to a burrito joint on Sunset in Hollywood and we were just talking about how there's no flights.

02:11:38.000 Like, look, because we'd heard that the flight's ended.

02:11:40.000 Like, look, man, you see a plane in the sky.

02:11:41.000 This is weird.

02:11:42.000 It felt weird.

02:11:43.000 We felt like we were stuck in California.

02:11:45.000 Whereas, like, the freedom of air travel is something that if you don't fly a lot, you don't think about.

02:11:51.000 But if you really do, if they pull it away, there's no more air travel.

02:11:55.000 You're like, what?

02:11:56.000 We're stuck here.

02:11:57.000 How long does it take to drive to Colorado?

02:11:59.000 Like, dude, that's 16 hours. 1.00

02:12:01.000 Shit. 1.00

02:12:01.000 You don't think about it. 1.00

02:12:03.000 Going back in time, in a way.

02:12:04.000 Yes.

02:12:04.000 Different time.

02:12:05.000 Yeah, well, at least you have cars.

02:12:07.000 You have to take the train.

02:12:08.000 Yeah.

02:12:09.000 So is there anything else that we might disagree on?

02:12:13.000 What we disagree on?

02:12:16.000 I don't know.

02:12:19.000 I think we agree on the flat earth stuff.

02:12:22.000 No.

02:12:23.000 You think the earth is round, right?

02:12:25.000 I changed my tune.

02:12:27.000 What about DeLong?

02:12:28.000 Matt DeLong?

02:12:29.000 What's that one?

02:12:32.000 The guy from Blink-182.

02:12:35.000 Tom DeLong. 1.00

02:12:36.000 Oh, he's out of his fucking mind. 1.00

02:12:38.000 Poor bastard. 1.00

02:12:40.000 Yeah, he's got some weird shit going on. 1.00

02:12:43.000 And since that podcast, a bunch of people have pointed out to me that he is essentially, they're selling stock in a company. 0.99

02:12:52.000 Yes.

02:12:52.000 Yeah.

02:12:52.000 They're selling stock.

02:12:53.000 And also he gets a guaranteed payout.

02:12:55.000 Yeah.

02:12:56.000 Of like, I think $100,000 a year or something like that.

02:12:59.000 Well, whatever it is.

02:13:00.000 Regardless of how much money they take in or what they make.

02:13:04.000 If you get enough Rubes to keep donating money to this, I mean, he keeps saying, stay tuned, things are going to happen.

02:13:10.000 Yeah, he said there's going to be some videos released.

02:13:13.000 Yeah, when did he say that?

02:13:14.000 Like nearly a month ago now, I think.

02:13:16.000 Dude, when he was on the podcast, he played some videos for us that were absolutely UFOs, and I almost pissed my pants laughing.

02:13:22.000 They were so bad.

02:13:24.000 It was so bad. 0.99

02:13:25.000 One of them was so fucking bad. 0.95

02:13:26.000 I was like, dude, if that was in a movie, I would want my money back. 0.95

02:13:29.000 I would be angry.

02:13:31.000 So, is he a crazy guy, or is he a smart guy who's making money?

02:13:35.000 I do not know. 0.64

02:13:37.000 I think he must like this UFO stuff.

02:13:40.000 He loves it.

02:13:41.000 Otherwise it stays singing and making money.

02:13:43.000 Yeah, but the conversation, look, there's two ways to approach this.

02:13:46.000 And I tried to be respectful because I'm the host.

02:13:51.000 And he agreed to come here and he wanted to talk about this, so I tried to be respectful and let this guy talk. 0.98

02:13:57.000 And what he was saying to me was so ridiculous. 0.97

02:14:01.000 I was like, I don't even have to challenge him on this because it's so obviously ridiculous. 0.99

02:14:07.000 Everyone is going to see that it's ridiculous. 0.92

02:14:09.000 I was wrong. 0.83

02:14:10.000 There was a lot of people that listened to that podcast that I saw on Twitter that thought that what he was saying was mind-blowing.

02:14:17.000 And this is real.

02:14:18.000 Those are the people that are going to donate.

02:14:20.000 Exactly.

02:14:21.000 Right.

02:14:21.000 Now, is there a problem with that?

02:14:24.000 Is there a problem with the Catholic Church? 1.00

02:14:28.000 Because they're full of shit too, right? 1.00

02:14:30.000 Yeah, you know what I'm saying? 1.00

02:14:32.000 Catholic Church is essentially a money-making franchise.

02:14:34.000 And they don't have to pay taxes.

02:14:36.000 At least he has to pay taxes.

02:14:37.000 I mean, is there a problem with conning rubes out of money? 1.00

02:14:42.000 There's loads of Kickstarters for technology things that just couldn't possibly work.

02:14:47.000 There's these clear-air holograms.

02:14:49.000 They say you'll be able to play video games on the table in front of you.

02:14:52.000 Oh yeah, there's GoFundMes for people that don't have illnesses.

02:14:56.000 Yeah.

02:14:56.000 There's like one where they had a water bottle that would magically take water out of the air.

02:15:01.000 I saw that one.

02:15:02.000 Yeah, but it won't actually work.

02:15:04.000 It would take like three days to fill the bottle if you were in a rainforest.

02:15:09.000 It would require a solar panel that's this big.

02:15:12.000 I saw that one.

02:15:13.000 It's far easier to bring your own water.

02:15:15.000 But they raised $2 million.

02:15:17.000 And what do they have to do with that money?

02:15:18.000 Are they allowed to keep it?

02:15:19.000 They can keep it if they want to.

02:15:21.000 Wow.

02:15:22.000 The Kickstarter, I think it's Kickstarter, has this open thing where you're developing a prototype so it doesn't actually have to work.

02:15:31.000 Wow.

02:15:32.000 So what happens with that?

02:15:33.000 So all those people, is this it?

02:15:35.000 Is this it?

02:15:35.000 Fontys, yeah.

02:15:36.000 They're still going?

02:15:38.000 I think they might have like...

02:15:39.000 That's Indiegogo though.

02:15:40.000 They might have been on a couple of different platforms.

02:15:43.000 Yeah, one of them is more relaxed than the other in terms of what it will allow.

02:15:48.000 Like one of them now, you've got to have a working prototype.

02:15:50.000 The self-filling water bottle. 1.00

02:15:52.000 Yeah, it's bullshit. 1.00

02:15:54.000 Who's this guy? 1.00

02:15:54.000 It can't possibly work. 1.00

02:15:55.000 He's the guy who created it?

02:15:56.000 Yeah, a lot of these, they're like Eastern European, like, scientist types who do things like this.

02:16:02.000 So they made it look like this dude's just driving around, and then this water bottle's gonna pull it out of air, and then he can just pull it out of the tube, and wow, look, I've got water all of a sudden.

02:16:13.000 It can't possibly work.

02:16:16.000 It uses a real technology.

02:16:18.000 These little electrical things actually cool things down and condense things. 0.99

02:16:23.000 And it will actually condense a little bit, but hardly anything.

02:16:26.000 So it would take a long-ass time for that to fill a water bottle.

02:16:29.000 It's basically a dehumidifier.

02:16:31.000 I don't know if you have like a dehumidifier in the house at all.

02:16:34.000 I have the opposite.

02:16:34.000 I have a humidifier because California's dry.

02:16:36.000 If you ever have a dehumidifier, it will eventually fill up the container of the dehumidifier.

02:16:41.000 But this is this thing powered by plugging it into the wall, and it's this big machine, and it still takes all day to fill up the reservoir.

02:16:46.000 Right.

02:16:47.000 So they're saying like a little water bottle this size with a little solar panel and this little condensing thing that's this big will fill it up in a few hours.

02:16:55.000 Well, maybe it's like that...

02:16:57.000 It's physically impossible.

02:16:58.000 ...physical face technology swapping thing like 20 years ago was impossible, but 20 years from now, maybe they're playing the long game with this water bottle.

02:17:06.000 You can improve computers, but you can't really improve the laws of physics.

02:17:09.000 You can only get so much water out of a parcel of air.

02:17:12.000 So they would have to have some sort of better mechanism for extracting it than what they're doing.

02:17:17.000 Yeah.

02:17:18.000 There's certainly a lot of scams out there.

02:17:20.000 I don't know if that's what he's doing.

02:17:22.000 When I talk to people that knew him from a long time ago, he's been obsessed with UFOs forever.

02:17:28.000 So his obsession seems to be legitimate.

02:17:31.000 However, when I was talking to him about all the events, and I was like, tell me what happened.

02:17:35.000 A guy contacted you.

02:17:36.000 Well, I can't say who.

02:17:37.000 I can't say what it was.

02:17:39.000 I can't tell you that.

02:17:40.000 We can't get into that. 1.00

02:17:41.000 That's all bullshit. 1.00

02:17:42.000 When someone starts talking like that, they're full of shit. 1.00

02:17:45.000 He definitely seemed to be a combination of deceptive and delusional. 1.00

02:17:50.000 Well, the... 0.97

02:17:52.000 The slides that he used in the talk to illustrate, there was like an event of some UFO buzzing an aircraft carrier and some fighter jets were going after it and they couldn't find it and they put up some slides on the screen there which looked like a shiny silver penis flying around.

02:18:10.000 And it's actually something that, the type of thing we do on Metabunk is identify objects like that.

02:18:14.000 So we figured out what this was, and it's actually a number one numerical helium balloon, like the digit one.

02:18:23.000 Oh, wow.

02:18:23.000 Like someone's, like, from a party.

02:18:25.000 Yeah, and I found, like, a bunch of other shots of the same thing, where you can see it rotating, and you can see it's fairly clear.

02:18:31.000 It's this number one.

02:18:31.000 But it's on this conspiracy website.

02:18:36.000 They thought it was a UFO, so he got it off that, and said this is a UFO. Took the image, kind of degraded it a bit, so you can't really tell what it was.

02:18:42.000 It was quite hard for me to track it down, because they'd messed with it so much.

02:18:44.000 Wow.

02:18:45.000 It was actually just this helium balloon that was shiny.

02:18:50.000 What's disturbing to me is that he's got this business that claims to be some sort of aerospace business, and he's involved in it with all these other people.

02:19:00.000 That's weird, because the guy who's running that, I can't remember his name, Fortune or something like that, is like a real guy who works at Lockheed Martin or somewhere, run the skunk work. 1.00

02:19:10.000 Maybe started doing Adderall.

02:19:12.000 Started getting crazy.

02:19:14.000 What he's talking about, it makes no sense whatsoever.

02:19:16.000 He says, our mission is to take what the science division gives us and we'll turn that science into flying craft.

02:19:23.000 Right.

02:19:24.000 But the science division, it doesn't really exist.

02:19:27.000 Right.

02:19:28.000 They've got like a guy who's like, one guy who's interested in like shooting things with lasers to make them go fast.

02:19:34.000 Right.

02:19:34.000 Yeah, that was one of the weird things.

02:19:36.000 That's kind of a real technology.

02:19:38.000 You can use a laser to power a craft.

02:19:41.000 That's not what they're talking about.

02:19:43.000 They're talking about some kind of craft that warps the very nature of time and space itself and kind of rides a wave of a wormhole or something like that.

02:19:53.000 And this guy thinks that it's plausible.

02:19:55.000 And all they have to do is kind of like try really, really hard.

02:19:58.000 If they all put their heads together and like this scientists do all this science a lot and then these builders do their really good building based on these really good science they're gonna get, then they'll get this flying craft.

02:20:09.000 Yeah.

02:20:09.000 Which is nonsense.

02:20:10.000 That is gonna happen.

02:20:12.000 Haven't people donated something like two million dollars or some goofy?

02:20:16.000 Yeah, something like that. 0.99

02:20:17.000 How many fucking people have done that? 0.99

02:20:19.000 See if you can find that out. 0.99

02:20:20.000 It says 2,092.

02:20:22.000 2,092 people have donated?

02:20:24.000 Just over 2 million dollars, yeah.

02:20:26.000 Wow.

02:20:26.000 So that's like a thousand dollars each.

02:20:28.000 That's a lot.

02:20:28.000 On average.

02:20:29.000 That seems wrong.

02:20:30.000 I know the numbers have changed frequently.

02:20:34.000 Well, the numbers seem really high in terms of the amount of donations.

02:20:37.000 Like, it's very odd that you're going to get 2,000 people to donate $1,000 each.

02:20:42.000 That doesn't seem right to me.

02:20:43.000 Yeah, it could be a few very large donors that are somehow convinced to donate via this. 1.00

02:20:48.000 Well, there are a lot of really fucking crazy old people that believe in this shit, and they might have a ton of money. 1.00

02:20:56.000 What's that red line meant to represent? 1.00

02:20:58.000 UFOs, bro!

02:20:59.000 They're flying right above...

02:21:03.000 To the stars!

02:21:05.000 Academy of Arts and Science.

02:21:07.000 That's what kills me.

02:21:08.000 What kind of arts?

02:21:08.000 What are you doing, fingerprint?

02:21:09.000 I was tracking those numbers for a while, and they were going up unproportionately, if that's the correct word to say, from each other.

02:21:15.000 The investor number was going up, while the dollar number was sort of staying the same.

02:21:21.000 So maybe he was calling these people, if you can double your offer, I can get you on the first ship.

02:21:27.000 It's a minimum of 200, I think.

02:21:29.000 Really?

02:21:29.000 Yeah, it's on the small print down there.

02:21:32.000 So, some large donations... 1.00

02:21:34.000 It's amazing, though, that they've donated $2 million to this wacky-ass fucking company. 0.99

02:21:41.000 Yeah, and all the company is required to do is pay DeLong $100,000 a year for, I think, the next seven years or something. 0.99

02:21:51.000 And that's it, really.

02:21:52.000 The crazy thing, too, was that he had been contacted by the government because they knew that he could go on shows like mine and talk about this, and then he would have a platform because he's a rock star.

02:22:03.000 I was like, what?

02:22:05.000 Why didn't the government stop him? 1.00

02:22:08.000 Yeah, this is like some bad movie shit. 1.00

02:22:11.000 This narrative is a bad movie. 0.99

02:22:14.000 People say they don't want to talk to me on the phone because they're afraid of the government tracking them down and assassinating them or whatever.

02:22:21.000 But it's like, I'm talking to you on Facebook.

02:22:27.000 If I really was this agent of the government, it wouldn't be very hard to just say, get rid of this guy.

02:22:33.000 That's a big one they like to pull on you because you debunk things.

02:22:36.000 You're an agent of the government.

02:22:38.000 Yeah.

02:22:39.000 Yeah, and it's a really hard one to get around.

02:22:41.000 I think my approach there is just to be as honest as possible all the time.

02:22:45.000 So I always tell them exactly who I am.

02:22:47.000 I made lots of money doing the Tony Hawk video games.

02:22:49.000 I'm just a British video game programmer.

02:22:53.000 I basically give my life story.

02:22:54.000 Yeah.

02:22:55.000 They don't buy it.

02:22:56.000 They don't.

02:22:57.000 They're not buying it, pal.

02:22:58.000 They don't.

02:22:58.000 But, yeah, I think some of them, it helps telling them about Tony Hawk.

02:23:03.000 Yeah.

02:23:04.000 A lot of them actually are fans of Tony Hawk.

02:23:06.000 Yeah.

02:23:07.000 That's funny, actually.

02:23:08.000 Well, it's one of those things where if you don't want to believe, you're not going to.

02:23:14.000 That's a likely cover story for a guy.

02:23:16.000 And then they'll go super deep. 1.00

02:23:18.000 Oh, the government has infiltrated video games in order to keep kids stupid. 0.99

02:23:22.000 They've created these games in order to mess with the kids' minds. 1.00

02:23:25.000 One reaction I get quite a bit is that I am stupid. 1.00

02:23:29.000 That you're stupid? 1.00

02:23:30.000 Yeah, a lot of people will say that I am really stupid. 1.00

02:23:32.000 There's people who are in the architects and engineers for 9-11 truth type thing who think that I'm really stupid and don't understand physics at all. 0.99

02:23:41.000 And so they say that I'm not a government agent. 0.99

02:23:45.000 I'm just this really stupid dude who doesn't understand what actually happened with 9-11. 1.00

02:23:50.000 Useful idiot, right? 1.00

02:23:51.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:23:52.000 And not just a useful idiot in that sense, but a person who is just mistaken. 0.99

02:23:59.000 So then they can dismiss my videos by laughing at them. 0.99

02:24:02.000 I do lots of little videos where I do things like demonstrate how something buckles, like a column buckling when you put a load on it.

02:24:10.000 Right.

02:24:11.000 Or things like that.

02:24:13.000 Just physics videos. 1.00

02:24:14.000 And then they just say, you're an idiot. 1.00

02:24:16.000 We don't need to look at this video. 1.00

02:24:18.000 So it's a way of getting around the problem.

02:24:20.000 And a lot of other people say that I'm so smart about chemtrails and things like that, that I must be a government agent because I know so much about contrails.

02:24:28.000 So I get both sides of it. 1.00

02:24:29.000 I'm either a really smart government agent or I'm just a stupid, useful idiot. 1.00

02:24:34.000 Well, it's just them looking at you and trying to find some way to dismiss what you're saying. 1.00

02:24:38.000 But you really get a kick out of debunking shit. 0.99

02:24:41.000 I do. 0.99

02:24:42.000 It's fun.

02:24:43.000 I like doing the backyard science stuff.

02:24:45.000 There was a thing I did recently where the scientists were saying that the bits falling off the World Trade Center were leaving trails that must be from the rocket motors that are pushing them away from the World Trade Center.

02:24:58.000 So I said, no, it's probably just some dust on it.

02:25:01.000 And they said, no, it wouldn't do that.

02:25:02.000 It wouldn't leave a long trail.

02:25:03.000 So I got a big sledgehammer and I piled some ashes on it from my fireplace and then I stood on top of a wall and I was throwing this sledgehammer with a big trail of dust coming from it for like half an hour videoing myself doing it until I got some representative videos of it.

02:25:19.000 It's just fun to do.

02:25:20.000 It is kind of fun.

02:25:22.000 You know, one of the ones that kept coming up that I thought was the most ridiculous about the Flat Earth was I'd read this a couple of places where people were talking about ships disappearing on the horizon.

02:25:32.000 Yeah.

02:25:32.000 And then the ship disappeared, but if you pulled out optics, you zoom in, you could still see the ship.

02:25:38.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:25:38.000 And I was like, well, how come you can't see Mount Everest, motherfucker? 0.99

02:25:41.000 Why can't you look towards Japan? 0.99

02:25:43.000 Where's Mount Kilimanjaro?

02:25:44.000 Get up.

02:25:45.000 How come you can see the moon?

02:25:46.000 You can see the moon.

02:25:47.000 If you get a good telescope, you can see the moon really clearly.

02:25:50.000 Take that telescope.

02:25:51.000 Don't point at the moon.

02:25:52.000 Point across the ocean.

02:25:53.000 Where's the mountains?

02:25:55.000 The atmosphere.

02:25:57.000 The kind of advanced version.

02:26:00.000 You know I was talking about how architects and engineers from 9-11 have to do this really advanced thing now because we've debunked the basic stuff so they have to move to this advanced stuff.

02:26:08.000 Same thing with flat earth people.

02:26:11.000 Now you demonstrate how things actually do go over the horizon, and mountains do get obscured by the horizon, and how the sun sets and things like that.

02:26:19.000 And so they come up with this complicated explanation where there's this kind of giant refractive lens of atmosphere above the Earth, which is bending all the light from the sun in such a way that the Earth appears to be round, even though it's actually flat.

02:26:35.000 Done, done.

02:26:38.000 Which kind of begs the question, like, how do they actually know it's round if it looks?

02:26:41.000 How do they know it's flat if it looks round?

02:26:44.000 Right.

02:26:45.000 So they've got, like, you know, things are disappearing over the horizon as if it looks round because of this refraction thing.

02:26:52.000 But they think it's flat.

02:26:54.000 But if it looks round, why are they thinking it's flat?

02:26:58.000 Well, the thing that killed me was that you could zoom in on it, and that proved that it wasn't actually disappearing over the horizon.

02:27:05.000 I know a little bit about optics.

02:27:09.000 Because of my fascination with the outdoors, I have a bunch of binoculars.

02:27:14.000 Spotting scopes of various power, and there's things you just cannot see, but then you get a good spotting scope on them.

02:27:21.000 So with the naked eye, like there's things you can't see with the naked eye.

02:27:24.000 You would swear they do not exist.

02:27:26.000 They're not there.

02:27:27.000 But then you get a great spotting scope on them, and you can see them miles away.

02:27:31.000 And that's the thing with ships. 0.95

02:27:32.000 You get a large ship.

02:27:34.000 If it goes far enough away, you can't see it anymore.

02:27:37.000 And you'll be convinced that it's disappeared over the horizon when, in fact, it's only probably a couple inches lower.

02:27:44.000 On the horizon as far as like the curve of the earth, but to the naked eye, it's invisible.

02:27:49.000 So when they zoom in on it, they're convinced that, aha, there is no curvature of the earth.

02:27:54.000 See, this looked like it went over the horizon, but it's an optical illusion.

02:27:58.000 Yeah, and the thing is they've been shown this so many times that this actually happens.

02:28:01.000 There's so many videos now on YouTube that actually demonstrate this thing, like there's time lapses of ships going over the horizon, like zoomed in all the way with the P900 cameras, which do like an 83 times zoom, as big as you can go.

02:28:14.000 Yep.

02:28:15.000 It's been demonstrated.

02:28:16.000 They just ignore it or they say it's all made up.

02:28:19.000 They ignore it because it's not in their same YouTube queue.

02:28:22.000 You know, if you look at the, you know, you're playing the Flat Earth video, all the queue to the right is like Flat Earth exposed.

02:28:29.000 Some of those get hundreds of thousands of views.

02:28:31.000 There's this one guy, Dr. Zach, who's, I don't know where he is, like a foreign guy who does these... 1.00

02:28:36.000 Yeah, he does these Flat Earth videos, and they're all mathematically showing things in AutoCAD with drawing lines and stuff, and he gets like 400,000 views.

02:28:46.000 It's amazing.

02:28:47.000 It's bizarre.

02:28:47.000 Well, it's just amazing that so many people get into this, and they buy into it.

02:28:52.000 Do you see that one where that young man took a spirit ruler, a spirit level on an airplane, and was flying around in an airplane and was convinced?

02:29:01.000 Darrell Martin is that guy's name.

02:29:03.000 He lives in a van.

02:29:04.000 Does he?

02:29:05.000 Yeah, he does a bunch of videos on van life.

02:29:07.000 He's a cool guy.

02:29:08.000 He's a very nice guy, but he's got this weird idea about the flat Earth. 0.96

02:29:12.000 It's so ridiculous.

02:29:13.000 I've had a few YouTube battles with him. 0.97

02:29:15.000 Oh, battles!

02:29:16.000 Where he puts up something about how the moon is cooling things and he has this thermometer thing where it's showing that the moon is actually making things cold.

02:29:28.000 Then I put up a video explaining why it's just a reflection because these infrared thermometers don't work that way.

02:29:35.000 And then he puts another thing like Debunk this, Mick West!

02:29:38.000 And I kind of gave up at that point.

02:29:40.000 It was a pretty short battle.

02:29:42.000 Well, the weird thing is that they see all these other planets as round, but they decide that the Earth is flat, that it's some sort of a flat disk.

02:29:51.000 Yeah, they think they're different.

02:29:52.000 Yes, that the Earth is a different thing.

02:29:53.000 They think the planets are just like these tiny little balls that are like two miles wide or something.

02:29:57.000 And they think the Earth is really close to the Sun.

02:30:00.000 Yeah, they think it's about 4,000 miles away.

02:30:02.000 Well, some of them think it's only four miles away. 1.00

02:30:08.000 Oh, you fucking idiots. 1.00

02:30:10.000 They think the distance to the sun varies depending on the observer. 1.00

02:30:15.000 Like it's observer dependent?

02:30:17.000 Oh, like where you are?

02:30:18.000 Yeah.

02:30:18.000 If it's only four miles away, imagine if you drive away, it just gets super small.

02:30:23.000 Like, what the fuck? 0.99

02:30:24.000 Yeah, I mean, it makes no sense. 1.00

02:30:26.000 It's so ridiculous.

02:30:27.000 But it's just, to me, it's such a strange thing to concentrate on, that this is like, their identity is wholly invested in proving this thing to be some sort of a massive conspiracy. 0.85

02:30:40.000 It's very, very, very strange.

02:30:42.000 They love it.

02:30:43.000 You love it?

02:30:44.000 They love it.

02:30:44.000 You love it too, though.

02:30:45.000 You love debunking it.

02:30:46.000 That's the thing.

02:30:47.000 It's a rabbit hole for debunkers.

02:30:49.000 Yeah.

02:30:50.000 You just get sucked into it. 0.99

02:30:52.000 It's one of the best ones because it's so silly. 0.99

02:30:54.000 It is. 0.89

02:30:55.000 And then here's the thing that people send me.

02:30:58.000 People, like, I don't know if they're trolling me or if they're serious. 0.99

02:31:01.000 They'll send me a picture of a glacier and they'll go, there's your fucking ice wall. 0.98

02:31:06.000 Yeah, they show you the Ross Ice Shelf or something like that. 0.98

02:31:09.000 Like an actual ice shelf in Antarctica.

02:31:12.000 Yeah, you can look up the picture and see what it actually was.

02:31:15.000 And they think there's a government, the government is like guarding the ice wall all around so you can't get near it and take pictures of it.

02:31:22.000 Yeah.

02:31:23.000 The southern hemisphere is a huge problem for the flood earthers.

02:31:27.000 Yeah.

02:31:28.000 Because you can have like...

02:31:29.000 Somebody's standing on the south of South America, someone in Australia, and they're both looking south, which on the disk would be away.

02:31:35.000 Right.

02:31:36.000 Looking in completely different directions, and they're both actually, because they're both fairly close to each other, really, they're looking at the same stars in the sky.

02:31:43.000 Yeah.

02:31:43.000 And even the really complicated explanations for the flat Earth don't explain that.

02:31:49.000 So it's like one of the hard, irrefutable proofs of a round Earth.

02:31:54.000 Well, they also keep changing their story based on what gets debunked.

02:32:00.000 Like the big one that Dubé was saying forever, every photograph of Earth from space is a composite.

02:32:06.000 Well, that's not true.

02:32:08.000 They have full scale, full image, high resolution photographs from the Himawari 8. Yeah, those are fake.

02:32:15.000 Then they decided that those are fake.

02:32:17.000 So at first it was their composites.

02:32:20.000 Yeah.

02:32:21.000 Which there was some composites from lower satellites.

02:32:24.000 The blue marble thing.

02:32:26.000 That's how that got started.

02:32:27.000 There's the famous image of the blue marble, which is a NASA very high-resolution image that they did back in the 90s.

02:32:37.000 From composites.

02:32:37.000 Because they wanted to get something which had all of the land mass without any clouds on.

02:32:42.000 So they had to take loads and loads of pictures and just take the bits that had no clouds on and then stitch them all together.

02:32:47.000 And then they created this thing.

02:32:48.000 And then they did a separate one that had just the clouds.

02:32:50.000 And then they could put them together and move them around and stuff.

02:32:52.000 How many different satellites are taking full Earth images?

02:32:57.000 Probably around 30 or 40. How many of those are run by government shills?

02:33:03.000 They're all run by government.

02:33:05.000 Actually, not all run by government.

02:33:07.000 Well, Himawari 8 is the Japanese one, right?

02:33:09.000 Yeah, there's a Russian one, which is about the same.

02:33:12.000 There's actually two Russian ones.

02:33:13.000 There's a European one, Meteosat.

02:33:18.000 The American high-resolution one just went up a few months ago.

02:33:23.000 It's offline at the moment because they're moving it from one side of the United States to the other. 0.93

02:33:29.000 Damn, they moving it? 0.96

02:33:30.000 How long does that take? 1.00

02:33:31.000 A few days.

02:33:32.000 Jesus.

02:33:33.000 Now, um...

02:33:34.000 You have to be careful. 0.97

02:33:34.000 Yeah, how the fuck do they do that? 0.97

02:33:37.000 Little jets. 0.99

02:33:38.000 Oh yeah?

02:33:39.000 Yeah, you've seen gravity.

02:33:41.000 Yeah.

02:33:42.000 That's how things move around.

02:33:43.000 They go poof, and things move in the opposite direction.

02:33:45.000 And then suddenly they anchor it in that spot?

02:33:47.000 That is something that confuses people is how do rockets work in space?

02:33:52.000 They think that because there's no atmosphere in space, there's nothing to push against.

02:33:56.000 Right.

02:33:57.000 So how does a rocket actually work in space?

02:33:59.000 How does it?

02:34:00.000 It's action and reaction.

02:34:03.000 If you throw something in this direction, you will move in the opposite direction.

02:34:07.000 Oh, I see.

02:34:08.000 If you sit in your chair, take a big bowling ball or something, throw it in that direction really fast, you'll move back a bit.

02:34:14.000 Right.

02:34:15.000 So if you get like an air hose and you point it in that direction and you're standing on ice or something, you'll move in the opposite direction.

02:34:22.000 It doesn't matter if there's air.

02:34:24.000 You throw something that way, there has to be a reaction in the opposite direction.

02:34:28.000 Okay, that makes sense.

02:34:30.000 A lot of those guys don't even believe in satellites.

02:34:32.000 Yeah, they don't, because how could they?

02:34:35.000 They think that signals are bounced off the ionosphere.

02:34:39.000 There's no satellite.

02:34:41.000 Yeah, but you can see the satellites.

02:34:43.000 Yeah.

02:34:44.000 You can see the space station.

02:34:46.000 You can see it fly overhead.

02:34:47.000 And I get emails whenever it's going to fly overhead.

02:34:50.000 I go out and have a look, and I've taken pictures of it.

02:34:52.000 You can see the solar panels in the photographs that I've taken.

02:34:55.000 Wow.

02:34:56.000 And it always appears exactly where NASA says it's going to appear.

02:34:59.000 That's what's crazy.

02:35:00.000 Everywhere in the world.

02:35:01.000 That's the other problem with these people that don't believe in satellites is that how are we tracking the weather then?

02:35:07.000 How do we know exactly when the hurricanes are coming in?

02:35:09.000 Weather balloons.

02:35:13.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:35:17.000 My concern about all this, in particular the flat earth stuff, is young kids wasting their time on stupid shit when the world is filled with massive real mysteries and incredibly fascinating things that you should be diving in and learning about. 0.98

02:35:36.000 I think there's a great opportunity for teaching kids with things like flat Earth. 0.99

02:35:40.000 Yes.

02:35:40.000 Because you can do real experiments to determine that the Earth is not flat.

02:35:46.000 Also, maybe even more importantly, teaching them about traps, thinking traps.

02:35:51.000 Yes.

02:35:51.000 The mind can allow you to go down.

02:35:54.000 You can teach them how to debunk.

02:35:55.000 You can say, this guy is saying that ships should reappear when we zoom in.

02:35:59.000 How do we test this?

02:36:01.000 Right.

02:36:01.000 And then they can go out and test it.

02:36:03.000 Yeah, well, that one was so stunningly stupid to me. 0.99

02:36:07.000 And then, I don't even want to go into the flat earth thing anymore, but it's the thinking behind it that's the problem. 0.99

02:36:15.000 The thinking that every single airline pilot, everyone involved in Um, commercial shipping, everyone involved in aerospace, everyone who makes satellites, everyone, all those people are lying. 1.00

02:36:30.000 Every cartographer, everyone, all the map makers, everyone, they're all full of shit. 0.98

02:36:35.000 Everyone has agreed to not tell everyone else about the ice wall. 0.98

02:36:39.000 If the earth was flat and there was an ice wall, scientists would detail it and they would explain why the earth was flat and they would show you a working model of the earth being flat and that's what they would teach in school.

02:36:51.000 There's no benefit whatsoever to describing the Earth in a shape that it doesn't exist in.

02:36:58.000 And it would be obvious that the Earth was flat because you'd be able to do like really simple tests yourself.

02:37:02.000 You would see boats not going over the horizon.

02:37:05.000 It's just so disturbing to me.

02:37:07.000 You would see the sun get smaller as it gets further away.

02:37:10.000 Yeah.

02:37:10.000 The sun stays exactly the same size throughout the day.

02:37:14.000 Sunrise, noon, sunset, all exactly the same size.

02:37:17.000 The moon does the same thing.

02:37:18.000 Why does the moon look so much bigger though when it's on the horizon?

02:37:21.000 Optical illusion.

02:37:22.000 What is it?

02:37:23.000 It's a perspective issue?

02:37:24.000 Yeah, it's just the way your brain works.

02:37:27.000 If you take photographs of it, like on the horizon, and then another photograph of it when it's right up there, and compare them side by side, if you're the same zoom settings, it's exactly the same.

02:37:36.000 That's interesting, because it really does look larger when it gets lower.

02:37:39.000 Yeah, it's purely psychological.

02:37:41.000 The harvest moon, right?

02:37:44.000 Yeah.

02:37:45.000 What is the harvest moon?

02:37:47.000 Isn't that that big ol' red moon or something?

02:37:49.000 That's the blood moon.

02:37:51.000 That's an eclipse.

02:37:52.000 It's had the beaver moon, too.

02:37:54.000 A beaver moon?

02:37:55.000 The beaver moon.

02:37:55.000 A really big one.

02:37:57.000 I didn't know about a beaver moon.

02:37:58.000 I didn't either until they said it.

02:38:00.000 It was the super moon, which is when the moon is just very close to you.

02:38:05.000 What is the super moon?

02:38:06.000 How much closer is the super moon?

02:38:08.000 It's not much closer.

02:38:09.000 Really?

02:38:10.000 It actually only gets about 8% bigger than its smallest.

02:38:14.000 It's actually very hard to see that it's actually any bigger if you put them side by side.

02:38:19.000 That's a lot, though.

02:38:20.000 But people, you know, you see these news stories about supermoon.

02:38:23.000 Go look at the supermoon tonight.

02:38:25.000 Mm-hmm.

02:38:25.000 When it's, you know, it's not that much difference.

02:38:28.000 Oh, wow.

02:38:29.000 That looks a little bit different.

02:38:31.000 But that's the very smallest moon and the very largest moon.

02:38:33.000 Most of the time, it's going to be somewhere in between that, so you're not really going to notice the difference.

02:38:38.000 All right.

02:38:39.000 Anything else we should cover before we wrap this up?

02:38:44.000 Let me look at my list.

02:38:45.000 I have to write lists because my memory is so bad nowadays.

02:38:49.000 I've offloaded everything.

02:38:51.000 You're a stand-up comedian, so you've got to be able to memorize all this stuff.

02:38:55.000 Well, not only that, I have to memorize fights, too.

02:38:57.000 I have UFC information in my head, and I have comedy information in my head.

02:39:02.000 But if you asked me to do my act that I did from last year, like that I filmed for my Netflix special, I wouldn't be able to do it.

02:39:11.000 Yeah, looking at my list and we've kind of covered most of the things that are on here.

02:39:15.000 We could go over some like 9-11 craft if you wanted to.

02:39:18.000 I'm tired of it all.

02:39:19.000 That's the thing about it.

02:39:21.000 At this stage of my life, it seems when there's so many incredible things to pay attention to that are real, This is what I feel like about all this stuff where people are looking into conspiracies that they're just nonsense.

02:39:35.000 It's like they're chasing their tail.

02:39:37.000 They're trying to confirm something where there's so much evidence that it's not real.

02:39:42.000 It really bothers me.

02:39:44.000 It drives me nuts.

02:39:45.000 I just don't understand it and I wish that it wasn't a problem.

02:39:50.000 I wish it wasn't an issue.

02:39:52.000 And it is.

02:39:53.000 And it's one of the reasons why I continue to talk about these things and I really want to shine as much light on them as possible.

02:40:01.000 There's a real pattern that you could fall into and you can waste a tremendous amount of time in your life if you start looking at things incorrectly.

02:40:12.000 And flat earth to me is the best example of it. 1.00

02:40:15.000 It's the best example because it's so stupid. 0.98

02:40:17.000 I mean, it's so utterly preposterous that everyone is lying and that there are no images at all of this flat earth, but yet this one guy or a couple guys... 0.97

02:40:27.000 And I had heard that it had started all out as a as a troll on 4chan is that they they had started doing this like way back in you know like It could have been, but the Flat Earth thing goes back to the 1800s.

02:40:39.000 Right.

02:40:39.000 But the people had, like, reignited it.

02:40:41.000 Yeah.

02:40:42.000 They were just using that as a, like, you know, shitposting, as we talked about last time.

02:40:45.000 Yeah, shitposting.

02:40:46.000 But people have always believed in the Flat Earth. 0.88

02:40:48.000 Yeah.

02:40:50.000 All right.

02:40:50.000 Let's wrap it up, Mick West.

02:40:52.000 All right.

02:40:52.000 So, metabunk.com, if anybody wants to go.

02:40:55.000 .org.

02:40:56.000 .org, pardon me.

02:40:56.000 And my upcoming book, Escaping the Rabbit Hole.

02:40:59.000 When is that coming out?

02:41:00.000 Next September, but...

02:41:02.000 Have you finished it?

02:41:02.000 Have you done?

02:41:03.000 Nearly done, yes.

02:41:04.000 Nearly done.

02:41:04.000 Yes.

02:41:05.000 Okay, excellent.

02:41:05.000 All right, Mick West, everybody.

02:41:07.000 We'll be back tomorrow with UFC heavyweight champion Stipe Miocic.

02:41:12.000 See you then.

The Joe Rogan Experience - December 12, 2017

Joe Rogan Experience #1052 - Mick West

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