00:00:16.000So I've been sending you stuff because I knew that you were coming on, and I sent you that one, that video of the guy who got a trail cam photo of a Black Panther.
00:00:26.000So is that just a melanistic mountain lion?
00:01:21.000And you can tell that because you can see the spots barely, like the rosettes.
00:01:24.000So all these melanistic cats, like jags and leopards and things that do get melanistic, they still have those rosettes under the black coat.
00:02:32.000I did a thing in Baja, Mexico, maybe three years ago, where we were just cruising on this little ponga, this little fishing boat, and we saw these orcas go by.
00:02:40.000And now people seem to be doing it a lot.
00:02:42.000But at the time, it was like, Nobody had really just tried this.
00:02:45.000And this was a transient population, which means they primarily eat seals and sea lions, not the stingray eaters.
00:02:51.000And so we're like, fuck it, let's just go.
00:02:53.000And we like ran the boat up ahead and jumped in.
00:03:38.000So this is a newly documented behavior.
00:03:40.000Just in the last maybe six months, they've found that orcas will literally explode fish from impact, whether it's a game or what, but they're.
00:03:49.000Finding that this is not the first time they're doing this.
00:03:52.000They're starting to just explode these fish on impact just because.
00:04:17.000How do you think this thing literally turned to dust?
00:04:20.000Dude, I think those are the orca equivalents of, like, a redneck that wants to hit a turtle on the road, and they're just like, we're bored.
00:07:18.000Well, my friend Mark Gordon, he's a doctor who specializes in traumatic brain injuries and treating football players, soldiers, and he's treated some fighters as well.
00:07:29.000He said that any repeated stress, any banging, anything like that, head banging, like if you're a fucking head bang, you're probably going to get brain damage.
00:09:49.000We just bring the biggest, the best, and the strongest into some area, whether that's Vikings colonizing Iceland or the Samoans on their islands or whatever it happens to be.
00:09:57.000And you're just like, well, here's a superior population because all the biggest, best, and strongest have made it, and all of the weakest have died off.
00:11:17.000When you think about it, it's like, If you were studying us, if you were coming from another planet and you were studying us, you'd be like, wow, this one animal is fucking weird.
00:11:35.000If you looked at the Earth from an Earth shot, you'd look at what we've done and be like, this is the top animal, but they're parasitic and colonizing the whole planet and changing things and manipulating things, whereas all the other animals are just getting by.
00:11:49.000If we found out that there were actual visiting aliens, that there was actual intelligent life from somewhere else visiting us, I think a lot of us would probably be like, Why didn't you help?
00:12:45.000We are locked in on whatever the fuck is happening all over the world all at once.
00:12:50.000And that's one of the weird things about social media now is that we're constantly being inundated with new things to occupy our attention.
00:13:40.000And it's not even really rewarding, which is really terrifying to me because it's not something that's like really feels great.
00:13:47.000And you barely retain the information.
00:13:49.000Like, even if you watch an educational one where you're like, wow, that was amazing, you barely retain that information because it's such a quick thing until you're on to the next one, at least for me.
00:13:57.000Yeah, there's a little bit of that in there for sure, but I think I've gotten a pretty good algorithm lately.
00:14:03.000So, lately, for whatever reason, my algorithm has been really excellent.
00:14:07.000It's really dialed in where I'm only getting like really fascinating things the last couple of weeks.
00:14:32.000He's like, this guy raised a baby Bigfoot in secrecy for 10 years.
00:14:36.000So, Bad, it's so bad, it's so obvious.
00:14:39.000It's like a shitty AI photograph of like a blurry Polaroid photograph.
00:14:44.000And then you read the comments, and there's like 400 people going, Oh my god, I can't believe this happened!
00:14:48.000And you're like, Come on, dude, Duncan and I, um, back in the day, like in 2012 or 11, whatever it was, when I did that sci fi show, Joe Rogan Questions Everything, uh huh, we went and hung out with Bigfoot people.
00:15:01.000We actually went Bigfoot hunting, no way.
00:15:03.000Oh, yeah, we hung, yeah, we were with them for a couple days.
00:17:11.000I think there was, I mean, obviously we know that Gigantopithecus was real, but we were reading about this the other day that it seems like Gigantopithecus wasn't bipedal.
00:17:21.000And that there was some dispute as to whether or not it was bipedal, but apparently there are some biologists that are saying, no, it was most likely it walked around like an orangutan.
00:17:49.000Dude, I learned something pretty interesting this last week.
00:17:51.000So I, I just got back from India, literally flew in here from India, and we were doing some elephant rescues with Vantara, that big Indian wildlife rescue place.
00:18:02.000This elephant got hit by a car that we went and rescued, so its leg was all jacked up.
00:18:06.000Speaking of non bipedal things, so you would think just the elephant would walk with a limp.
00:18:11.000Well, having that trunk, it's incredible.
00:18:18.000I wish I had photos or video to show you, but I was watching this elephant walk, and it wouldn't put weight on its leg that was hit by the car.
00:18:24.000So, it would walk with three legs and its trunk as its fourth appendage.
00:19:58.000I mean, like, on a whole nother level, all privately funded by Anadam Bani, this Indian billionaire guy, the guy who had the huge wedding, if you remember that, a Justin Bieber sing at his wedding and stuff.
00:20:17.000And so he does all these rescues, right?
00:20:19.000So the reason I'm telling you all this is they go and respond to these rescues and then take it into this gigantic world's biggest animal hospital that they've built.
00:20:28.000So we went and rescued the elephant and now it's probably by today back in Vantara.
00:20:50.000But the short answer is they do let people treat them because these animals are raised in captivity by what's called mahouts, which are elephant riders.
00:20:59.000And it's a really, the whole dynamic's really fascinating.
00:21:02.000So, you grow up with an elephant as a mahout in Indian culture.
00:21:06.000And then there's usually one or two mahouts that spend their life dedicated to the elephant.
00:21:10.000And all they do is ride them, log them, they use them as tools, but they still love them very much.
00:21:32.000And then, yeah, so we go and we take the elephants in plus the Mahouts and take them all back to Ventara, give the Mahouts a full time job.
00:22:09.000Like imagine a jacuzzi the size of your building here for elephants, and it's their hydrotherapy pool.
00:22:15.000So these animals that have terrible arthritis or fucked up feet or bad legs like that, they just spend all day in the water because then there's no weight on their limbs.
00:22:50.000So I was really privileged to be part of those elephant rescues.
00:22:53.000It's really emotional when you see an animal like an elephant that has so much intelligence look you in the eye and be like, I'm in so much pain.
00:23:00.000And then you like start to relieve it.
00:23:02.000I went to visit this place in Thailand a few years back that has wild elephants.
00:24:16.000Like, I mean, Elephants have been used through history, right?
00:24:19.000In war, in logging, in circuses, everything else.
00:24:22.000But now, I would say in the last 20 years, we're finally sort of waking up to, hey, a lifetime of being on an elephant's back, like you can see the deformities, you can see the bed sores, you can see the hip displays or hip issues.
00:24:36.000You know, they look, you think they are when you look at them and you're like, what could have, you know, we're like an ant on that thing's back.
00:28:04.000I have a video of it on my Instagram, Jamie, if you want to see it, but it's um, it so it got an injury, so it killed part of the horn, and you know, they're antelope, they're not deer, so they don't shed their horns, right?
00:30:52.000There's a group that I've been working with called Mammal Watching.
00:30:56.000Like, if you heard of Bird Watching, And they've been going into Western Papua and Papua New Guinea, which is, as you know, where I think there could still be a tiny population.
00:31:06.000They're giving trail cameras out to guys.
00:31:07.000They're still hearing legends here and there, but it's just, I don't know.
00:31:11.000It feels like the legends are getting fewer and further between, like almost over generational time, it's disappearing, if that makes sense.
00:31:25.000It's something I've always wanted to be, and I like, I want it to be there, but it just feels like those bits of evidence that we're compounding have all sort of started to fade.
00:31:37.000There's a very interesting thing with the incredible variety of wildlife that we have that we're so fascinated by the ones that might not be alive.
00:31:47.000The things like the thylacine or the giant sloth.
00:31:50.000I remember I watched this documentary on the giant sloth.
00:31:54.000There was this one scientist, this biologist, who had spent an inordinate amount of time, like years, in the Amazon looking for a giant sloth and was realizing at some point in time during the documentary that he might have ruined his career.
00:33:01.000Most of them caught in poacher snares like this one.
00:33:04.000But then, really cool guy named Bill Robichaud got a call once from a prince and he had caught one and it was in his village and he flew in there and overnight the poor thing died.
00:33:14.000And that was the only time a single Westerner in history has ever seen a live salah.
00:33:19.000And this guy had it, and then he's like, can we please preserve it?
00:33:27.000He's got pictures and stuff, so you know it's all real.
00:33:30.000But they call it the unicorn because its horns are so symmetrical that when you look at it from a side profile, it looks like one horn coming out of its head.
00:33:49.000But that's the same thing as these things around giant sloths and thylacine and Bigfoot and everything else.
00:33:56.000They are out there, some of them, not all of them, but they are out there.
00:33:59.000And if you don't follow the lead, if you ignore it, then you miss things like that.
00:34:02.000Well, there's also like when you think about things like the Amazon, like if you ever see footage of the Amazon from above, you go, oh, there's no way you know.
00:35:35.000Do you mean like the photos, the hoax photo of the one that's poking out of the water?
00:35:41.000That one, I mean, you'll see it in a second here, I think, but there are these photos of a whale's penis compared to the Loch Ness monster.
00:35:49.000And I mean, that's certainly not proof, but it kind of answers a lot of like, that's a whale dick right there.
00:35:56.000That is a whale dick, but that photo, I'm pretty sure, is a proven hoax.
00:37:06.000You have to find geographically isolated areas.
00:37:10.000You know, because they're little pockets, right?
00:37:11.000If little pockets of, okay, people aren't coming in here, animals aren't going out, there's a big ring of mountains, there's whatever it happens to be.
00:37:20.000I met a guy who said he guaranteed he knew, you know, all these people like this, but I always enjoy the story of it that there was this pocket in Peru that was completely geographically isolated by the mountains, and that's where they were.
00:37:32.000And the idea is that these areas remain unchanged, right?
00:37:35.000It's like an island basically in the Amazon.
00:37:38.000Like things just don't change because it's so isolated from everything else.
00:37:42.000Well, I think the idea also was that giant sloths, where we know they existed in North America, that whenever whatever happened that ended the ice age, the younger, driest impact, that it didn't affect things below the equator or at the equator.
00:38:00.000It was more of a northern hemisphere thing.
00:38:02.000Yeah, because the climate shift was so much stronger.
00:38:05.000And so most of the animals that died off, if you look at like the, I think it was 65% of North American megafauna died off during this very short period.
00:38:15.000Window that didn't happen in South America.
00:38:18.000And that we're just guessing that they're dead.
00:38:22.000Because if there was a healthy population, think how many tigers are there in the wild?
00:39:17.000Very, a lot of people, especially coastal elites, I would like to say, like, people, coastal snobs, they have this idea of it being like filled with rednecks and ignorant people and foolish people.
00:40:34.000It's like you can't kill all the predators because then the deer get overrun and you're hitting them with cars, and you can't kill all the deer.
00:41:17.000I mean, you bounced around, but as a California transplant, did you bring your acai bowls and your, you know, you're like, I need all that California stuff here?
00:45:56.000And I just, I don't remember what the elevation was, but I'd come from Santa Barbara, where I live, which is sea level, to this high Himalayas.
00:46:03.000And I had to sit down like every 15 minutes for the first couple days.
00:46:07.000I saw the most horrifying video the other day of this guy who was on one of those summit.
00:46:52.000I always want to take my kids to do these things with me, you know, and I'm like, I want to take them to trek and see the mountains and catch crocodiles and do all these various things that I like to do.
00:47:00.000And you realize it's like my six year old can barely walk in a straight line without falling down.
00:48:02.000And then you're like, okay, well, now I have two kids who are hungry and we're in the jungle or it's, you know, in a town that everything shuts down on Sundays or whatever.
00:48:11.000Those are important lessons for little kids to be dynamic and figure out, like, how the rest of the world works and that they have to figure out how to get things when it's not all just at the touch of your, you know, phone.
00:48:22.000Also, to recognize that there's going to be times where you don't have food.
00:48:54.000Yeah, this was, yeah, so you know about what I'm talking about.
00:48:56.000I just read this literally yesterday in one of my doom scrolling things, but.
00:49:00.000It's interesting because I did that a lot when I was young, where I would wake up in the middle of the night and I just decide to watch TV.
00:49:07.000And do something for a few hours and then I go back to sleep.
00:49:10.000But it was just, for me, it was just like being indulgent because I was single and free and, you know, 25 years old and I had my own apartment.
00:49:18.000I'm like, I do whatever the fuck I want.
00:49:19.000Get up at 3 o'clock in the morning, watch TV for a couple hours and go to sleep till noon.
00:50:32.000But the thing is about pandas is that, and I went down a rabbit hole with this the other night, there were no depictions of pandas in ancient Chinese history.
00:52:39.000The Shijing, Book of Odes, and Shangshu mention a creature called Pai or Mo, which some modern scholars retroactively identified as the panda, but the identification is contested.
00:52:51.000And those same words were also used for leopards, tapir, tapir, or mythical beasts.
00:53:00.000Emperor Wen of Han, second century BCE, reportedly had a Mo buried in his mother's tomb, sometimes claimed as a panda.
00:56:54.000Well, isn't there more evidence that it's raised, that it's been engineered because it doesn't have the instincts that a wild animal would have?
00:57:01.000Dude, their parental instincts are bonkers.
00:57:35.000Dude, the problem is even like me and what I do as a biologist, I can.
00:57:40.000I mean, I'd say 90% I can tell, but there's a 10% where I can't tell if it's AI or real.
00:57:46.000And I'm looking at it going, well, that behavior is wrong, so it has to be AI.
00:57:49.000But it's crazy what's going on in the animal space with the AI mockups now.
00:57:55.000I watched one today where it was a wildebeest that a leopard had jumped on its back, and the wildebeest jumped into the water, and the crocodiles killed the leopard on its back, and then the wildebeest got away.
00:59:28.000When the crocs get a hold of something, it's really, it's a wrap.
00:59:31.000Dude, I just, there's not much of a struggle.
00:59:33.000I just did, I'm probably not supposed to talk about this yet, but I just did this show for Discovery that I've been working on for a couple of years where basically I put myself in the perspective of prey.
00:59:42.000So I would have been in the perspective of that wildebeest through engineering and doing all these like builds and stuff like that.
00:59:48.000And I lowered myself into a pond of crocodiles.
01:05:41.000In the winter, they have so much fat, you know, or yeah, in the winter, stored up, getting ready to chill because they don't eat as much during the summer.
01:06:24.000Since no bears have been captured alive in Iceland, but since then, receding North Pole ice is diminishing their hunting and mating grounds and jeopardizing their survival.
01:06:34.000The oldest sighting in Iceland was 890.
01:06:37.00016 years after the first people got there.
01:06:41.000But what's crazy if you think about that is all it would take if people weren't there is two polar bears over the course of polar bears' lifetime to wash up on the island, and then you have a population of polar bears there.
01:07:13.000He decided to keep it in the Tower of London.
01:07:15.000The bear was either too big or too exciting to be taken to Oxfordshire, where there had been a royal menagerie at Woodstock since Henry I's reign.
01:07:28.000So the beast was sent to the tower, and from what we could tell, it was well looked out for, although it had a muzzle and a chain to wear while on land.
01:07:35.000The sheriffs of London were obliged to lay out more than a shilling a week for its upkeep, which added up over a year to roughly the expected income of a knight.
01:08:42.000They're like a perfect example of not the size of the dog in the fight, but the fight in the dog because they're not a very big bear, but they will take on tigers and everything else.
01:08:51.000A certain group, I don't know the name of them, a tribe, I think, in India used to capture sloth bears and they'd put a ring in its nose, like a nose ring.
01:08:59.000And then this is barbaric, it doesn't happen anymore.
01:09:02.000But then they would take the bear onto the street as a street performer.
01:09:06.000And they would light a fire and put like a big sheet metal over it and then walk the sloth bear onto it so the bear would dance because its feet were burning.
01:09:39.000They'd have a chained up bull and have dogs attack the bull.
01:09:43.000Yeah, in South Africa in the early colonial days, they used to do it with baboons and let the dogs and the baboons fight and bet money on it.
01:10:06.000I mean, it's also if you hadn't seen half of your friends get cut in half by swords, your understanding of the value of life is probably completely distorted.
01:10:46.000But it's also like you stand there and you try to take it in.
01:10:49.000Like when I go to these ancient places, I try to just sit and just try to imagine.
01:10:55.000Like when you're actually, it's one thing to imagine when you're looking at a photograph or a video, but when you're actually in the spot, you know, like when you're in Athens and you like, Standing at the Parthenon.
01:12:19.000I don't know if this has been proven or if this is just a theory, but the idea is that if you have an early frost and that some of the wheat survives, but the wheat can have this fungus on it that grows ergot.
01:12:48.000And then you're like, man, this beer is bad.
01:12:50.000Well, there's also, I mean, imagine, first of all, you've got a bunch of crazy superstitions and people are afraid of everything already because you don't know anything about science.
01:13:00.000And then there's a lot of people that claim to be the wise people of the town and they tell you crazy stories about witches and you're like, oh, witches are real.
01:14:26.000You get a bunch of people and do it to them in a way that, you know, totally unethically, but this is a way they're not going to tell that you did it to them because they went to a whorehouse.
01:14:59.000I likely think of the infamous Pont Saint Esprit cursed bread incident of 1951.
01:15:04.000Long running allegation that wasn't ergot at all, but a secret CIA U.S. Army LSD experiment.
01:15:10.000What happened in Pont Saint Esprit, this small town in southern France, hundreds of residents suddenly suffered violent hallucinations, convulsions, insomnia, and psychotic episodes over several days.
01:15:24.000250 people were affected, 50 were committed to asylums, 7 died, including some who leapt from windows convinced they could fly or being chased by snakes and tigers.
01:15:34.000The official French investigation blamed ergot contaminated rye flour.
01:15:47.000Some later scientists propose, or maybe the same story.
01:15:51.000Some later scientists propose alternative culprits mercury, fungicide, nitrogen trichloride, bread bleaching agents, or mycotoxins from Aspergillus fumigatus.
01:16:13.0002009, American investigative journalist H.P. Alborelli Jr. published a terrible mistake, arguing that Pont Saint Esprit was actually a covert LSD field test run jointly by CIA's MK Ultra programs and the U.S. Army Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, with Swiss drug company Sandos, who first synthesized LSD, allegedly supplying the compound.
01:16:43.000So, his evidence included a declassified CIA document quoting a Sandos representative saying the Pont Saint Esprit secret is being discussed alongside references to LSD.
01:17:02.000Testimony he attributed to former CIA SOD scientist Frank Olson, who died in a 1953 fall from a New York City hotel room after being dosed with LSD by his colleagues.
01:17:49.000Al Borelli cited is ambiguous and predates the incident in some readings.
01:17:54.000No corroborating documentation has surfaced despite extensive MKUltra declassification since the 1970s church committee hearings.
01:18:02.000Yeah, but the problem with that is like one of the reasons why we know about MKUltra was evidence that they found that had been in storage.
01:18:13.000So when you say like Freedom of Information Act, they don't give you shit.
01:18:18.000They just bait you with a little bit here and there to go, oh, okay, we know now.
01:21:36.000And it fucked up his career for quite a while, but he got his diet under wraps and he figured out what to eat and what not to eat, and now he's fine.
01:21:44.000Do you know about some of those other animal warfare things they used to do?
01:21:48.000Like the spy tech they put in city cats.
01:21:57.000So during World War II, Jamie would have to confirm what city this was in.
01:22:01.000I believe it was the Russians used to put little hearing devices in street cats because the Brits would go and meet in back alleys and have meetings, but there were feral cats everywhere.
01:22:12.000So they'd have all these cats running around with these wires in their brains and stuff and these little.
01:22:22.000Acoustic kitty was a central intelligence agency project launched by the Directorate of Science and Technology in the late 1960s.
01:22:31.000In the 1960s, intended to use cats to spy on the Kremlin and Soviet embassies.
01:22:36.000In an hour long procedure, a veterinary surgeon implanted a microphone in the cat's ear canal and a small radio transmitter at the base of its skull and a thin wire into its fur.
01:23:25.000However, this is disputed in 2013 by Robert Wallace, a former director of the Office of Technical Service, who said the project was abandoned due to the difficulty of training the cat to behave as required.
01:23:36.000And that the equipment was taken out of the cat.
01:23:38.000The cat was re sewn for a second time and lived for a long and happy life afterwards.
01:28:08.000Some things with the dolphin, like with the dolphin story, I don't know if this is accurate, but I did read this one time that we would, like, if we knew Russia was doing this, we would put some paperwork out that said, well, we've got dolphins that are, you know, blowing up mines.
01:34:26.000Dude, it's the same thing like what I was talking about elephants.
01:34:28.000Their EQ, their emotional intelligence, we can't even comprehend it.
01:34:33.000The way those animals feel, like the highs that an elephant experiences and the lows it experiences, are way bigger than the highs or lows that most humans, I think any human can experience.
01:34:44.000The trauma that they feel from losing a loved one or from being abused or whatever it happens to be is like 10x what humans can even emotionally comprehend.
01:34:54.000Based on their brain scans and whatnot.
01:34:57.000I don't know the specifics of it, but because that part of their brain is so much larger than ours.
01:35:02.000And so you have these, they might not have the same computive skills as we do mentally, but they have this emotional intelligence that's so much deeper and broader than ours.
01:35:35.000It's like I think there's a part of people that recognize that this direction that people like, that this classification of intelligence in that way is wrong.
01:35:48.000But I don't think we can really quantify it yet.
01:35:51.000And if AI really can decipher, Dolphin language, orca language, whale language.
01:35:57.000If they really can, and we realize that they're actually communicating, God, I would hope that would change our approach to how we deal with those things.
01:37:00.000I agree with you that in the future we'll go, why did we keep animals the way we did?
01:37:04.000And when you look at old zoos and concrete boxes and stuff, but there's so much good that animals in captivity have done saving species, keeping things alive, connecting kids to nature.
01:42:35.000And they didn't know they were going to be white either.
01:42:37.000Now, is that a variant from their genetic mutation work, or is that something that's just expressing itself?
01:42:42.000Very good question that you'd have to talk to a geneticist about because, like, there's a lot of people that don't even agree they're actually direwolves.
01:42:49.000They're essentially saying that what you've done is you've taken the traits of dire wolves and you've made them be expressed in a gray wolf.
01:43:03.000But she's also said that I think, I don't want to mischaracterize, but essentially what they're saying is, but that's what a dire wolf was.
01:46:36.000Man, like a baby, ground into the actual evidence that all of monster bears kept humans out of North America doesn't hold up any longer, apparently.
01:46:47.000When I was talking, people said it was a myth that someone, a scientist, sort of commented on a paper that doesn't necessarily, he could have thought that, but they didn't really have evidence for it, I guess.
01:47:01.000Because the problem is bears, they would have to eat so much to sustain that kind of mass that there couldn't really have been a lot of them.
01:47:10.000No, but it sure makes sense that they were predating upon people when they came across.
01:47:18.000He's saying that a hypercarnivore built for pacing long distance, he argued that it was primarily a scavenger using its size, sense of smell, and long legged gait to klepto parasitize kills from lions, direwolves, and scimitar cats rather than the rundown prey itself.
01:51:04.000Then I go to my sight tape that's on my sight on my bow and I dial it to 52 yards because I use archery software that measures the weight of my arrow.
01:51:17.000So I have this 500 grain arrow and then it has this.
01:51:20.000Speed per second, so it's 390 feet per second from a 500 grain arrow.
01:51:24.000And then I put it into this computer and it spits out a sight tape so that I can move my pins specifically so I could put it in a quarter at 52 yards if I was accurate enough.
01:53:36.000And what essentially they do is they can pretty accurately judge five yards and then they double that and then they triple that and then they try to figure it and they get within like 10 or 15 yards.
01:53:47.000Even with a compound bow, you know, that drop of 10 or 15 yards is pretty significant.
01:53:53.000Even something that's going 300 feet a second.
01:53:55.000But when you're doing with a fucking wooden arrow that you made yourself with a stone tip like one of these bad boys, I have one here somewhere, somewhere on this desk.
01:54:24.000That thing would plane like a motherfucker if you shot it out of a really good bow.
01:54:29.000And not to mention the stress of if I don't kill this thing, I'm either going to die or I'm not going to eat or, you know, all the other things.
01:59:16.000It's like, I know not so much with bow hunting, but if you're competitive as a person to the point that you succeed the most at developing a phone or a cup or whatever it happens to be, you win and you get paid the most.
01:59:41.000Like, but before, people think of Bill Gates now.
01:59:45.000Well, now I think COVID kind of ruined his.
01:59:48.000People's impressions of him can now they think of him as a vaccine pusher, but also as a philanthro capitalist where he's doing philanthropy that makes millions and millions of dollars for him.
01:59:57.000Didn't he also put out that anti protein film?
02:00:04.000Bill Gates, correct me if I'm wrong, but Bill Gates' wife is vegan, I believe, and he funded like some Netflix documentary all on how like bodybuilders get huge without protein.
02:00:25.000With the huge jacked guy being like, I never touch protein.
02:00:29.000It turns out the problem, I think, if you're looking at that from an ethical perspective and you're saying factory farming is bad, I'm on your page.
02:01:23.000Integration, the antitrust ruling, and the appellate settlement.
02:01:28.000And so everybody in the 90s thought of him as this guy who is this like ruthless capitalist that was trying to destroy all the competition.
02:02:30.000I'm sorry, but I'm going to go on a fucking rant here.
02:02:33.000They gave all these people living in the Cabo Ribasa Delta, which is the breadbasket of the Zambezi Valley, meaning like where more fish are born.
02:03:01.000These mosquito nets now indiscriminately catch tiny baby fish.
02:03:05.000In areas like Kaborabasa, where the fish go to breed and reproduce and populate.
02:03:11.000So now all of a sudden, you have thousands and thousands of people that have been handed nets that have been living one way for hundreds of thousands of years.
02:03:23.000They sleep with a campfire, everything else.
02:03:25.000Yes, they still get malaria, some of them, but they deal with it their own way.
02:03:29.000Bill Melinda Gates Foundation come in, hand out millions of mosquito nets, absolutely collapse the entire population of fish.
02:03:37.000That feed millions of people because these people just take the nets and fish all the baby fish out so that those fish don't grow up to make substantial protein sources.
02:03:46.000So now these wonderful philanthropists that have given out millions of nets have destroyed an ecosystem, crashed a fish population, and created widespread hunger for people that otherwise had plenty of resources.
02:03:58.000All because they were trying to help with their mosquito nets.
02:06:03.000But the craziest conversation was there was a woman who was asking him, did he regret his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein?
02:06:10.000And he's just trying to say that the only reason why he talked to Jeffrey Epstein because Jeffrey Epstein was going to donate money to his philanthropy and all the different things that he's involved in.
02:06:21.000But it didn't work out, and I do regret it.
02:07:23.000It was reported at that time that you had a number of meetings with Jeffrey Epstein, who, when you met him, 10 years ago, he was convicted of soliciting prostitution from minors.
02:07:37.000What did you know about him when you were meeting with him, as you've said yourself, in the hopes of raising money?
02:10:18.000This is an email that Epstein appears to have drafted to himself claiming that Gates had contracted an STI from encounters with Russian girls.
02:10:28.000Gates said the emails were never sent and are false.
02:10:33.000His spokesman called them absolutely absurd.
02:10:36.000So absurd that someone could get an STD from a Russian girl.
02:10:41.000Gates has separately admitted to affairs with two Russian women and with a Microsoft employee, but says none of them are connected to Epstein or his victims.
02:10:50.000Some people say those emails were like a journal he was keeping.
02:11:02.000I mean, imagine that's your journal, but why would you do that?
02:11:05.000Why would you make up a story about a guy having STDs?
02:11:09.000I think more likely because there was a rumor, and this is an unsubstantiated rumor, I want to be real clear, that Epstein was trying to blackmail Gates with some story about a bridge player that he was having an affair with.
02:11:34.000If he could have drafted that email, which was never sent, and then sent the draft to Bill Gates or showed it to him and say, What do you think about this?
02:12:49.000So imagine you're a guy who's, especially if you're a nerd and you know, you were never really good with women when you were in high school or college.
02:13:20.000I mean, that's what I was saying before.
02:13:21.000It's like you're just like, it's just a party for a bunch of dorks who can come here with a lot of money.
02:13:25.000But there's also some weird science connection with him, and that's where it gets really odd is that there's he got that ranch in New Mexico so he could be close to the guys that were working at Los Alamos who were famously not making much money.
02:13:42.000So he's around these guys and he's talking about going into business with them and giving them this chance to make an insane amount of money.
02:13:50.000And this is what he did with Eric Weinstein.
02:13:52.000With Eric Weinstein, he contacted him and they had a meeting and he was trying to get Eric Weinstein to do something with him.
02:13:58.000And if Eric did it, he had the potential to make an enormous amount of money.
02:14:02.000And Eric is very wise and he just didn't buy him from the start.
02:15:16.000And who knows what he was trying to get them to do.
02:15:19.000He was probably just one of those guys.
02:15:20.000I mean, you never ended up meeting him, but he was probably just incredibly likable.
02:15:24.000As a con man, do you know what I mean?
02:15:25.000You probably sat in a room with him and you're like, wow, this guy's really great.
02:15:28.000Like, maybe I should give him some money.
02:15:29.000Maybe I should, like, what a cool guy.
02:15:31.000And he's just a dirtbag under the veil.
02:15:34.000We're just speculating, but maybe, maybe also if you have a bunch of really hot Russian chicks that are hanging out with you, that'll do it.
02:15:48.000And then there's a bunch of people that are willing to hang out with billionaires just because I've seen it where people just get enamored by the fact that someone's insanely wealthy and they want to.
02:17:14.000No, but it's just, it's, and I get it from a perspective of people who think there's not enough money in the world, and then why do these people have so much money, and they should give all their money away?
02:17:27.000But you could do that all the way down to like $100,000 a year if you really wanted to do it, especially when you compare yourself to everyone else in the world.
02:18:58.000But it doesn't mean that it's like this, you know, because they have the whole thing about them being lion killing apes and all this other stuff.
02:19:04.000There's probably a family troop, a group.
02:20:15.000So there's these two guys that are standing with it.
02:20:18.000It's hard to tell how big the guys are, but if they're normal sized human beings, that's the biggest fucking chimpanzee I've ever seen in my life.
02:20:54.000Where the one that's sitting down, that looks way bigger than those guys.
02:20:57.000The size of its head is fucking enormous.
02:21:00.000Do you know that there's one river where.
02:21:02.000I'm trying to remember exactly how this works, but basically, there's one area where the rivers collide where the chimps and the gorillas go into conflict with each other over this one river spot.
02:21:24.000And it's an area that the chimps will come on one side and the gorillas will come down on the other, and they will have, they'll like throw stuff at each other across the river, and like, it's like a whole Thing that it's been documented, and these guys will there's sort of these like two clans of great apes that come and communicate across the river and throw rocks and like show off to each other, and then they kind of go back into the jungle.
02:21:45.000But it's been seen in this one particular river several times.
02:21:49.000Wow, yeah, it's like the real planet of the apes.
02:21:53.000What are they fighting over food, territory?
02:21:56.000It's, unless I'm mistaken, it's relatively unknown, but it's sort of a social construct.
02:22:00.000So if you think of humans, for example, once our population gets too large and we have too many men and not enough women, we fight.
02:22:08.000We've seen that throughout history, Roman times, Mongolian times, you name it.
02:22:13.000So, there was one troop of chimps that all lived together in relative harmony, and then two leaders basically sprung up, and there was a lack of enough females.
02:22:24.000And so, all of a sudden, this clan divided into two clans, and now they're at constant war with each other.
02:22:30.000Like, they live in the same relative territory, but they'll come into contact with each other and go to war over who's going to be the leader of the alpha troop, the mega troop.
02:22:39.000And it's been going for maybe a year or two years now.
02:23:35.000I'm sure you've seen that one documentary.
02:23:39.000I think it's called Relentless Enemies, where there's a particular pride of lions that grew enormous because they're only eating water buffaloes.
02:23:45.000They got trapped on an island because the river changed paths.
02:24:34.000Like they'll just turn and come anytime.
02:24:36.000But it's crazy how you have that basically insular dwarfism and insular gigantism throughout animals, no matter like animals stuck on an island, they're either going to get big or they're going to get small.
02:24:47.000Well, lizards usually get big on an island, right?
02:24:57.000So all of a sudden, you know, you're a little tortoise that's this big, and every time you get to this big, something spots you from the air and eats you or whatever it happens to be.
02:25:05.000But now you're stuck on an island with all the grass and fruit you could ever eat, and nobody wants to eat you.
02:25:10.000So you just get bigger and bigger to outcompete each other.
02:26:51.000Or maybe it's just Waldron's red colobus, but it's a colobus monkey that there's like three or four museum specimens and no live specimens.
02:27:17.000And what's crazy is a lot of these animals, especially primates and essentially anything that lives in the Congo, is in a place that's so scary and so dangerous to visit that there's not a lot of research being done.
02:27:31.000Well, that's always what I tell people when they're like, oh, well, you know, find these animals, find that animal.
02:27:39.000Like these lost species are species that the people that hunt and eat them know they're there, but they have no communication to the outside or the scientific world.
02:27:46.000And, you know, for you or I to go into that part of the Congo is probably a death sentence.
02:28:37.000It's like you can absolutely be the tinfoil hack guy like I can be with the thylacine, but if you give up and don't look, you know, we never really know.
02:31:53.000And you imagine, like, imagine living like thousands of years ago before anybody understood what the fuck was going on and thinking like some wild, magical moment had happened and we entered into a new timeline or something.
02:32:15.000It's also, it's like so weird that the sun and the moon are the exact right distance that when they cross, the moon just completely outlines where the, I mean, just fills in everything.
02:33:48.000Like, I don't think there's another moon in our entire solar system that's comparable in terms of the size and the relationship to the other planet.
02:34:06.000There's also, we did something, some sort of experiment where we shot something at the moon and it rang like a bell for a long time, which is really weird.
02:34:24.000The fifth largest moon in the solar system with a diameter of the width of the contiguous United States, while it's Dwarfed by Jupiter and Saturn's largest moons, it's uniquely massive compared to its parent planet.
02:34:35.000Yeah, that's what it is, making the Earth moon system more like a double planet.
02:34:39.000Yeah, so in relationship to the planet, like it's so Jupiter and Saturn have huge moons, but Jupiter obviously is fucking way bigger than us.
02:38:01.000Like, hashtag space is fake is one of my favorite things to look up.
02:38:04.000Because there's a whole community of people out there that think space is fake.
02:38:07.000But I also think that a lot of these people, what you're getting is there's been some people who develop fake theories in order to see if people bite.
02:38:19.000And then they put them out there, like on Reddit or somewhere, on 4chan.
02:38:23.0004chan's a great place for stuff like that.
02:38:24.000Because you've got a lot of schizophrenics that like to visit those places.
02:39:09.000I mean, you're a guy who actually goes to these places and goes looking for stuff.
02:39:13.000I love when you hear about something like a burrowing snake, and everybody's like, that's not real, it doesn't exist.
02:39:19.000And then turns out somebody finds this weird snake, and it's not really a cryptid, but it's something that nobody's been looking for because why would you, right?
02:39:26.000Nobody's digging in the earth in the center of the Congo to find a mud snake, you know, or whatever it happens to be.
02:39:32.000And I think those are the things that.
02:39:34.000They end up being cryptids in small communities.
02:39:37.000You know, like you hear from the village about the snake.
02:39:39.000I'm making the snake up, but about the snake that lives under the mud and only bites when people dig their crops or whatever it happens to be.
02:39:46.000And it creates this generational legend that becomes a cryptid.
02:39:51.000But the truth is, there is a snake that lives under the crops in the mud.
02:39:54.000It's just nobody ever goes looking for it because why would you?
02:39:57.000Well, there is a weird arrogance that we have in 2026 because we have uncovered so much in comparison to people that lived two or 300 years ago.
02:41:21.000You know, and it sort of lessens the conservation for that frog in general because now all of a sudden it's like, well, there's four different kinds of them, so who cares if one of them gets extinct?
02:41:31.000So it's sort of like, it's a weird thing that's going on in the sciences where there's this race to do speciation and pull apart everything into more and more and more.
02:41:40.000And then it sort of lessens the value of them, in my opinion.
02:41:46.000Reward thing that happens that encourages people to do these things.
02:41:51.000Dude, I'm writing a whole book on this right now.
02:41:53.000Coming out next year because it's just the scientific system in wildlife and conservation is so broken because it's very, first of all, if you're an animal guy, you're probably not a great people person to begin with, right?
02:42:24.000There are great people that I work with too, but just as, Just a picture of the system.
02:42:28.000So now you have all these socially awkward, somewhat introverted people studying animals.
02:42:32.000Now there's this tiny little resource pool of money.
02:42:36.000And everybody that's socially awkward, that's already somewhat arrogant because they've made it to the top of their field or close to the top of their field, is competing for this tiny little pool of money.
02:42:46.000So now they're putting out anything that's headline worthy.
02:42:49.000And a headline worthy could be as simple as speciating a frog on a mountain or it could be discovering something.
02:42:54.000But basically, you have to just publish something.
02:42:57.000To show that you are accomplishing something, to then pull from that tiny little pool of money.
02:43:02.000So now, a system like, say, Yumi and Jamie here should all be working towards saving this guy right here, this metal chimpanzee.
02:43:11.000We're all fighting because there's this tiny little pool of money that we all want, and we're all saying that each other are wrong because we need to prove that we're right so that we're funded because all three of us can't be funded to save that species.
02:43:34.000And I think there's a lot of bullshit science, you know, to be honest with you.
02:43:37.000Like, there's a lot of this speciation and publishing and all this stuff that's just sort of making noise that isn't really helping.
02:43:44.000And I think the solution is well, one, once it becomes more mainstream, here's the short answer conservation is incredibly easy to measure.
02:43:53.000We try and make it very difficult and complicated.
02:44:04.000Are there more or less than when you started?
02:44:06.000If when you started there are less and now there are more, and this is very black and white and every system's different, but if you had a thousand frogs and then you worked on the project and now you have 2,000 frogs, you're doing conservation right as long as the ecosystem supports, as long as the prey is there, blah, That's all conservation is.
02:44:23.000We try and make it so complicated and so in depth and require all these papers and this publishing and this information that is sort of an information overload that the common person doesn't care about it.
02:44:36.000I mean, when's the last time you read a paper on frogs?
02:44:40.000Me neither, because they're boring, because I don't care about it.
02:44:43.000But I would care if you just came out and said, look, these frogs need a home.
02:44:47.000We're going to fight chytrid fungus, which is this big widespread fungus that's killing all amphibians, by building frog hotels, which are these little brick hotel things that frogs go in to incubate to kill the fungus.
02:44:58.000And if we build enough frog hotels, then there's going to be more frogs.
02:45:40.000Like, it's great when my YouTube does well and I make money, but like, I just want people to care about these things because if you care about them, then that resource pool widens.
02:45:48.000Well, it's, you got to make things interesting to people, right?
02:46:21.000And the other part of the system that's so broken is a lot of these world leading experts have never touched, seen, Anything with a living one of these animals.
02:46:30.000I worked with a person, and I don't want to say her name because she's a lovely person, who's a world leading expert on a certain type of shark.
02:46:37.000And we're like, great, you're the world's leading authority.
02:46:39.000You're perfect to come with us on this trip to study these sharks.
02:46:43.000We fly to the opposite side of the planet.
02:46:45.000I don't want to give too many details.
02:48:23.000And that's why the best scientists are the guys that hunt and fish and spend their life surrounded by these animals that will never once be credited as a scientist because all they do is study the behavior of the animal.
02:48:48.000But that doesn't make you an authority on it, in my opinion.
02:48:52.000Well, that was the thing about that particular documentary and those particular scientists it was so unusual that they had this long history where these chimpanzees had lived and died and raised new chimps around these people.
02:49:04.000And as long as they follow this protocol, stay within at least 20 yards away from them, never have food around them, don't look them in the eyes.
02:51:05.000I've wanted to try to get him on the podcast.
02:51:07.000And that's going to be one of the things he probably never answered, honestly, because it would probably be disrespectful to Timothy Treadwell and his.
02:53:25.000You go, well, I boiled down to the most simplistic, community driven ways that people exist like this.
02:53:33.000Seems to be the best way for people to live.
02:53:35.000But, like you said earlier, you have to have both sides, right, of the coin.
02:53:39.000It's like the red and blue in Texas because you have to have innovators and overthinkers and workers, or it wouldn't be a society.
02:53:45.000Or they, and by the way, they wouldn't exist because they use snowmobiles, and not one of those motherfuckers is going to invent a snowmobile.