The Joe Rogan Experience - July 29, 2026


Joe Rogan Experience #2532 - Tim Robbins


Episode Stats


Length

2 hours and 30 minutes

Words per minute

167.34

Word count

25,184

Sentence count

2,373


Transcript

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00:00:02.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.
00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
00:00:10.000 All right.
00:00:13.000 Jamie's very geeked out.
00:00:14.000 I'll let you know.
00:00:15.000 He didn't want to say it.
00:00:16.000 Shawshank is his all time favorite movie.
00:00:18.000 So he was kind of freaking out when he met you.
00:00:19.000 Thanks, Jamie.
00:00:21.000 Thank you.
00:00:22.000 It's all time.
00:00:23.000 I mean, you're a part of one of, like, easily one of the greatest movies in the history of people.
00:00:28.000 I know.
00:00:28.000 It's such a gift.
00:00:29.000 I mean, when people come up and say something about it, it usually is coming from a pretty deep, Place, you know, yeah.
00:00:37.000 If you didn't like that movie, there's something you should go to a doctor.
00:00:41.000 There's you need medication, there's something wrong with you.
00:00:43.000 That's an amazing movie, and weird that it's a Stephen King movie, too.
00:00:47.000 You know, he's that guy is arguably one of the most prolific guys in the history of fiction, yeah.
00:00:53.000 And in the same novella, there was uh Stand By Me, too.
00:00:57.000 Oh, wow, yeah, so that's amazing.
00:01:00.000 He writes his stuff varies so much, he had to do like a pseudonym at one point.
00:01:00.000 So weird.
00:01:05.000 Remember, he did Richard Bachman, yeah, because he was turning out so many books.
00:01:08.000 They're like, hey, we can't.
00:01:09.000 Keep selling these fucking Stephen King books.
00:01:12.000 And he's like, Well, how would I come out with another name?
00:01:14.000 Like, give me a fake name.
00:01:15.000 And he just started killing it under the ground.
00:01:17.000 Just got to keep writing it.
00:01:17.000 Got to, got to, got to.
00:01:19.000 Yeah.
00:01:20.000 Wild, wild guy.
00:01:21.000 Yeah.
00:01:22.000 Just a very unusual human.
00:01:24.000 You know, they exist.
00:01:25.000 Yeah.
00:01:25.000 I've only met him once.
00:01:27.000 Really?
00:01:27.000 Yeah.
00:01:28.000 Did you meet him, like, when you were filming the movie?
00:01:30.000 Around the premiere time.
00:01:31.000 Yeah.
00:01:32.000 So he's out there, man.
00:01:32.000 Yeah.
00:01:34.000 Yeah.
00:01:35.000 You know, during his early days, I'm fascinated by his early days because his early days, he was off the rails.
00:01:42.000 With cocaine and alcohol, and some of the best shit that he made.
00:01:46.000 He doesn't even remember writing it.
00:01:48.000 Wow.
00:01:49.000 I think Cujo is one of the books his wife took out of the garbage because he threw it away.
00:01:54.000 He's like, fuck this book.
00:01:55.000 Cujo.
00:01:56.000 It was Cujo or one of the classics.
00:01:59.000 Yeah.
00:02:00.000 And she was like, are you out of your fucking mind?
00:02:02.000 Like, this is incredible.
00:02:03.000 And he was literally going to throw it out because he was just out of his mind.
00:02:06.000 He wrote The Shining, right?
00:02:08.000 So, what?
00:02:08.000 Yeah.
00:02:10.000 Yeah.
00:02:10.000 He threw Carrie away?
00:02:10.000 Was it Carrie?
00:02:12.000 No way.
00:02:12.000 Yeah.
00:02:12.000 Crazy.
00:02:13.000 Crazy.
00:02:14.000 That's crazy.
00:02:16.000 Yeah, Shining was a big movie, a big book for me.
00:02:20.000 I was working in a nine to five job in between colleges, and it really woke me up to all kinds of great possibilities in writing.
00:02:31.000 Well, he hated the movie, which is so crazy because he felt like Jack Nicholson got insane too quickly.
00:02:38.000 Really?
00:02:39.000 Because in the book, I read the book too.
00:02:39.000 Yeah.
00:02:42.000 It's very different, similar, but it's more of a drawn out process of him becoming possessed by the property.
00:02:50.000 A slower rollout, yeah.
00:02:51.000 He like Jack Nicholson was kind of kooky already, like right away, which you know, it's Jack Nicholson, like it's also Stanley Kubrick.
00:03:01.000 It's like he's got to do his interpretation of it, you just got to accept that, of course.
00:03:06.000 Yeah, that's some scary shit in that.
00:03:08.000 Fuck man, his books are insane.
00:03:10.000 Yeah, it's like what is going on inside that guy's mind or was going on inside that guy's mind when he was writing that?
00:03:16.000 God knows.
00:03:17.000 I think once he got clean, he kind of changed and straightened out and different, different human now.
00:03:23.000 But boy, I'm fascinated by the off the rails days because the books were so nuts.
00:03:29.000 Was Shausik during that time?
00:03:31.000 I don't know.
00:03:32.000 It must have been.
00:03:34.000 It must have been because I don't think he got sober until it was decades after his career began.
00:03:42.000 Wow.
00:03:43.000 Some of the great stuff, like I think the stand, I think all that stuff, he was out of his mind.
00:03:50.000 He was writing all those.
00:03:51.000 But in the midst of all that madness, there's a tenderness.
00:03:53.000 Oh, yeah.
00:03:54.000 Oh, a great humanity to it all.
00:03:56.000 Yeah.
00:03:57.000 Yeah, but also just a true understanding of the darkest nature of humans and how they're influenced.
00:04:05.000 And then, of course, you know, demonic possession and Salem's Lot and all that other crazy shit.
00:04:10.000 It was like, he was just so good.
00:04:13.000 But then the idea that a library can be the, you know, in Shawshank, that the library can be the liberation.
00:04:19.000 Yeah.
00:04:20.000 Yeah.
00:04:21.000 No, it was an amazing, amazing movie.
00:04:24.000 We were talking about your new show, Silo.
00:04:27.000 Which I, not new.
00:04:29.000 It's been around for three seasons.
00:04:30.000 I just started watching it, so it's new to me.
00:04:32.000 I watched the first two episodes last night.
00:04:34.000 It was fucking great and very original and interesting.
00:04:38.000 And I was telling you before that it made me think of this place that they discovered fairly recently in Turkey called Derinkuyu.
00:04:46.000 And Derinkuyu is this underground city that's massive.
00:04:51.000 I think it could hold 20,000 people.
00:04:56.000 Wow.
00:04:57.000 Something nutty like that.
00:04:58.000 I've seen pictures of it.
00:05:00.000 Found completely by accident.
00:05:01.000 Yeah.
00:05:02.000 So, some guy lost one of his chickens, went through a hole in the wall, and never came back.
00:05:07.000 And he was trying to figure out where this fucking chicken went.
00:05:10.000 So, he broke down the wall to see what was going on.
00:05:12.000 And then they realized that there's this insane underground city.
00:05:17.000 Oh, my God.
00:05:18.000 Yeah, underneath this town in Turkey.
00:05:20.000 And it's massive.
00:05:22.000 Just absolutely massive.
00:05:24.000 They have no idea who made it, there's no historical record of it.
00:05:27.000 Any idea of when?
00:05:29.000 Well, you know, they make guesses based on stuff they find there.
00:05:34.000 But it's when you carbon date an object, right?
00:05:36.000 So you could go visit the pyramids today, right?
00:05:39.000 And you could leave behind some stuff, right?
00:05:41.000 And then everybody dies, humanity dies out in a cataclysm, and then a hundred thousand years from now, people start looking through the piles of some of these sites, and the pyramids would probably still be there.
00:05:53.000 And if there was any organic material left, like a book that you left, or a leather bound book, or some piece of wood, they could carbon date that.
00:06:01.000 And then that would say the time that you were there, but it wouldn't say the time that the actual structure was made.
00:06:06.000 So, who knows how long people.
00:06:08.000 Show me some more pictures of that, please.
00:06:09.000 I was looking up when it was made.
00:06:11.000 Do they know?
00:06:12.000 No, definitely don't know.
00:06:13.000 They didn't even know it existed.
00:06:15.000 I mean, when was it found?
00:06:18.000 I feel like it was found in the 20th century.
00:06:21.000 There must have been some kind of hostile force that they built it to.
00:06:25.000 Exactly.
00:06:26.000 Or something going on outside.
00:06:29.000 And not just hostile, but environmental.
00:06:33.000 So, 1963.
00:06:35.000 Rediscovered in 1963.
00:06:37.000 Wow.
00:06:39.000 That's crazy.
00:06:41.000 It's in his fucking house.
00:06:42.000 Even today, only 10% of it is accessible to tourists.
00:06:45.000 The rest is still being explored.
00:06:47.000 That's how nuts it is.
00:06:49.000 So, how many people do they think it held when it was operational?
00:06:54.000 I think it's something like 20,000 people.
00:06:56.000 That's how big this place is.
00:06:58.000 That's amazing.
00:07:00.000 So, they don't know when or why, and depending on how around 20,000 people.
00:07:07.000 Plus livestock and food stores.
00:07:10.000 How they farmed down there?
00:07:10.000 Really?
00:07:12.000 Who fucking knows?
00:07:13.000 I don't know, but they had grain storage.
00:07:15.000 They had all kinds of stuff down there.
00:07:17.000 Oil presses.
00:07:18.000 18 levels, reaching 85 meters.
00:07:21.000 So 280 feet deep into the ground with ventilation shafts, wells, stables, wine and oil presses, storage rooms, chapels, and school rooms, plus a half ton circular stone doors that could be rolled shut from the inside only.
00:07:37.000 So they were obviously either fighting off some sort of an army or the outside.
00:07:42.000 Air was hostile.
00:07:43.000 There was something going on.
00:07:44.000 It got too hot or something.
00:07:45.000 It could have been.
00:07:46.000 Yeah.
00:07:46.000 Yeah.
00:07:47.000 Well, there's been many moments in the time that human beings were alive where there have been cataclysms.
00:07:53.000 You know, there's this thing called the Younger Dry's impact theory that's around 11,800 years ago.
00:07:58.000 There's all this evidence that there were massive asteroid impacts all over the earth, comet impacts.
00:08:05.000 And they think that it was probably a reset of civilization.
00:08:08.000 And so this could have been post that.
00:08:12.000 It could have been how some people survived in these areas.
00:08:16.000 Human beings have an amazing ability to survive.
00:08:20.000 Yeah.
00:08:20.000 I mean, you know.
00:08:21.000 Which is silo.
00:08:22.000 I mean, it's really a modern version of Darren Cuyahoga.
00:08:26.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:08:27.000 And here I was, you know, in the middle of lockdown when I received those scripts.
00:08:32.000 And I was like, oh, this is actually talking about right now.
00:08:36.000 Yeah.
00:08:37.000 This is about a controlled society where information is censored and where compliance is necessary.
00:08:46.000 And if you don't comply, you get sent out into the hostile environment.
00:08:51.000 It was all too familiar metaphorically for me.
00:08:54.000 Perfect timing.
00:08:55.000 Yeah, perfect timing.
00:08:56.000 Because you got to think that he must have written that before, right?
00:08:59.000 Yeah, many years ago.
00:09:00.000 So it was just got lucky.
00:09:02.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:09:03.000 Perfect synchronicity.
00:09:05.000 Yeah.
00:09:05.000 Yeah.
00:09:06.000 I've been blessed that way in my career.
00:09:08.000 Yeah.
00:09:08.000 What do you think that's about?
00:09:09.000 Do you ever wonder why you're so lucky?
00:09:13.000 Obviously, you're very talented, but it's also there's a lot of talented people that don't, nothing ever happens for them.
00:09:18.000 I think it comes down to the ability to say no.
00:09:23.000 At crucial times, when I was facing down either, you know, You know, I remember when I first had my first child and I was broke and I got offered this comedy that was dumb and it was a million bucks and I needed the money.
00:09:42.000 And I also had an opportunity if I waited, Robert Altman was trying to put together the player.
00:09:50.000 So I threw caution in the wind and said, no, I can't do that stupid comedy.
00:09:55.000 What was the stupid comedy?
00:09:56.000 Do you remember?
00:09:57.000 Yeah, it was called Folk.
00:10:04.000 I remember flying out to LA to meet on it and I'm with Alan Arkin.
00:10:09.000 And he was the guy that was going to play my father in this thing.
00:10:13.000 And he said, What the fuck are you doing this script for?
00:10:17.000 I said, I need the money.
00:10:18.000 He says, I don't know.
00:10:19.000 I'm not sure I want to do this thing.
00:10:24.000 I was like, Thank you, Alan Arkin, for confirming what I was thinking.
00:10:30.000 Wow.
00:10:30.000 Yeah.
00:10:31.000 And so I said, No.
00:10:32.000 And then.
00:10:33.000 Player came through and shifted my whole career.
00:10:36.000 Yeah, it's a matter of following that voice in your head, the instinct, the one that's telling you this is the right way to go.
00:10:44.000 Yeah.
00:10:45.000 Even though there's all sorts of influence that want to lead you into the other direction.
00:10:49.000 There was a period of time about 10, 15 years ago when I got offered, in the course of seven months, I got offered to play the head of the CIA three times.
00:11:03.000 You should wonder what that's all about.
00:11:06.000 I couldn't even imagine.
00:11:07.000 I mean, for some reason, that was, I don't know.
00:11:11.000 I have no idea.
00:11:12.000 And then a couple years after that, and again, you know, you're looking down at your bills and your mortgages and stuff, and you need the money and just have to, I don't want to do that, right?
00:11:23.000 Then a few years after that, I got offered in the course of a couple months, one, to play the head of FIFA, which is a corrupt organization, but in the movie, it was, you know, You know, they were the best people in the world, right?
00:11:39.000 Propaganda.
00:11:40.000 Not to mention that the head of FIFA was a Brazilian, and I had, you know, but they were offering a ton of money, and basically it was FIFA producing a movie about itself.
00:11:49.000 And after that, I got an offer to play the head of the Chilean mine that had just had this huge disaster.
00:11:49.000 Oh, wow.
00:11:57.000 And it turns out the mining company was, they were really nice people, you know, according to the script.
00:12:04.000 And it wasn't bad management or anything, or, you know, that made the disaster happen.
00:12:09.000 So I realized that the oligarchs are starting to make movies about themselves.
00:12:14.000 It's got oligarchical cinema.
00:12:17.000 It's like they produce movies that make themselves look really good.
00:12:20.000 And you can get away with it.
00:12:22.000 Nobody knows.
00:12:22.000 Oh, hell yeah.
00:12:23.000 Nobody cares.
00:12:24.000 And they think they can buy anybody.
00:12:25.000 And they almost bought me, but I just, I have to, at times I just have to look, you know, face it down and say, listen, it's not right in my heart.
00:12:34.000 I can't, I can't do it.
00:12:36.000 Well, that's great that you've got that North Star.
00:12:36.000 Yeah.
00:12:39.000 It's great that I had the luxury to do that.
00:12:41.000 You know, oftentimes people don't have that luxury.
00:12:44.000 Right.
00:12:44.000 And one bad decision can.
00:12:46.000 Pigeonhole you in a bad direction, and then you'll never get the ones that you really want.
00:12:51.000 These movies about you playing CIA, did they ever get made?
00:12:55.000 Oh, yeah.
00:12:57.000 There were TV shows and movies.
00:12:59.000 Was any of it any good?
00:13:01.000 No.
00:13:08.000 I remember when we were doing movies like The Day of the Condor, which was critical of the CIA.
00:13:17.000 I think.
00:13:18.000 Now we have the rogue CIA agents that are actually good guys.
00:13:21.000 And, you know, listen, CIA, you know, whatever it does, nobody really knows the extent of what they do.
00:13:28.000 But they do have a lot of good portrayals in the media.
00:13:34.000 Well, I think there's good people that are in the CIA as well.
00:13:34.000 Yeah.
00:13:38.000 And I think that it's necessary.
00:13:40.000 I just think that they obviously have unchecked power and they've done some really fucking shady shit.
00:13:46.000 Yeah.
00:13:46.000 You know, in the name of this is the right thing to do right now.
00:13:49.000 Including selling drugs.
00:13:51.000 You know?
00:13:51.000 I remember that.
00:13:51.000 Yeah.
00:13:52.000 Iran Contra.
00:13:53.000 I remember that.
00:13:54.000 That's one of the.
00:13:55.000 I mean, I remember that because I was.
00:13:58.000 Gosh, I guess I was either right out of high school or like in that area where the whole Oliver Stone thing was on television all the time.
00:14:05.000 And it was just.
00:14:05.000 Oliver North.
00:14:06.000 Oliver North.
00:14:07.000 Excuse me.
00:14:07.000 Yeah.
00:14:07.000 Oliver North and Ronald Reagan.
00:14:09.000 And there was this guy, Jimmy Tingle, hilarious Boston stand up comedian, who had a great joke about it where they're interviewing Ronald Reagan.
00:14:18.000 And they say, Mr. President.
00:14:20.000 Did you ever sell arms to people who hate us?
00:14:24.000 And he's like, I don't remember.
00:14:26.000 He goes, Well, in the future, if you sell arms to people who hate us, jot it down.
00:14:35.000 Make a note of it.
00:14:37.000 He goes, Put a post it on your refrigerator.
00:14:40.000 Today, I sold arms to Iran.
00:14:43.000 I remember that was in the 80s.
00:14:46.000 I did a play about it.
00:14:47.000 I wrote a play about it.
00:14:48.000 Really?
00:14:48.000 And we performed it with the actors' gang, yeah.
00:14:51.000 There was a meme that was on social media recently that was.
00:14:55.000 It showed Oliver North during the whole Iran Contra trials when, you know, they got caught selling drugs in Los Angeles to fund the Contras versus the Sandinistas in Nicaragua.
00:15:06.000 And then he goes to jail.
00:15:08.000 And then the same guy you see later on Fox News as like a war analyst.
00:15:13.000 And it's like this hilarious meme.
00:15:16.000 Like, if you told me in 1980, whatever the fuck it was, where, you know,.
00:15:21.000 He got in trouble that he would eventually be the guy that they call upon for expert advice on what's going on overseas.
00:15:28.000 Yeah, it's a deep connection that goes back years.
00:15:32.000 All the people that get it wrong, particularly the Iraq war, anyone that got it wrong got promotions.
00:15:38.000 Yeah, and no one got in trouble.
00:15:40.000 No one got fired.
00:15:41.000 People in the media as well.
00:15:43.000 They promoted it.
00:15:44.000 They got better jobs.
00:15:46.000 Well, this is kind of the only time in our lifetimes where there's actual real independent media, where there's independent journalists that are not connected to any major corporations that are operating either on Substack or online or on YouTube or on X.
00:16:01.000 It's fascinating because they're the ones that are exposing all these connections that the media and the Central Intelligence Agency and all these other government organizations have had.
00:16:12.000 Where they've all been working together forever, spinning narratives on TV.
00:16:17.000 And so, like anytime something like the Iraq war happens, where they go, Oh, we've got weapons of mass destruction.
00:16:21.000 We got to go in there.
00:16:22.000 No weapons of mass destruction.
00:16:24.000 No one goes away.
00:16:25.000 No one gets in trouble.
00:16:26.000 And the same people are on TV telling you about some new thing that you have to pay attention to.
00:16:30.000 It's like, this is nuts.
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00:17:30.000 Well, some people get in trouble, people that come up out against it.
00:17:35.000 And there's never any apologies.
00:17:37.000 I did.
00:17:38.000 I did.
00:17:39.000 I risked a lot to do it and wound up being right, but no one ever said, hey, you were right.
00:17:46.000 This was during the Iraq War?
00:17:48.000 Yeah.
00:17:49.000 What did you say?
00:17:50.000 I was one of maybe five people that were famous that came out against that.
00:18:00.000 Went on, you know, in various television shows and made a couple speeches.
00:18:04.000 I got my appearance at the Baseball Hall of Fame for Bull Durham, 15th anniversary or something like that, canceled by the head of the Baseball Hall of Fame.
00:18:15.000 It was real, you know, it was funny because I was doing a show at the time and I heard about it and I started writing a response, but.
00:18:25.000 It was already printed by the time I had my response, right?
00:18:30.000 So I got the next day, I got a bunch of people contacting me.
00:18:35.000 I hired a crisis PR person for the first time in my life and wound up getting my letter to Dale Petrosky, the head of the Hall of Fame, out there with the press release.
00:18:48.000 They were basically ambushed, trying to call me a traitor and all this stuff.
00:18:52.000 Wow.
00:18:53.000 And so I pushed back and the The publicist that I had hired was very smart.
00:18:59.000 He said, we're going to send this to all the sports writers.
00:19:01.000 And it was the sports writers that wrote the articles defending freedom of speech.
00:19:06.000 At the time.
00:19:06.000 Wow.
00:19:07.000 So it was.
00:19:08.000 What year was this?
00:19:10.000 Is this right after 9-11?
00:19:11.000 This was right when we were cooking up the war, 2003.
00:19:14.000 So, and I remember, you know, and I also wrote a piece about that called Embedded that we've performed for the first time three weeks after Bush landed on that aircraft carrier with a mission accomplished thing.
00:19:30.000 So that wound up playing it across the country.
00:19:34.000 Country.
00:19:35.000 We toured it and played the New York Public Theater and played in London.
00:19:39.000 But it was attacked when we went to New York.
00:19:42.000 You know, they sent someone from, that wasn't a theater critic, while we were still in previews and published this thing in, I think it was the New Republic, basically calling me a conspiracy theorist, anti Semite, all this stuff, to try to discredit this play that was playing at the Public Theater.
00:20:02.000 How did they connect anti Semite?
00:20:03.000 You know, that doesn't matter.
00:20:05.000 That's what they throw out.
00:20:07.000 There was nothing anti Semitic about the play.
00:20:08.000 Of course.
00:20:11.000 It's one of the things they use to discredit people.
00:20:14.000 What did you know about so what made you compelled to come out against the war?
00:20:20.000 I was reading foreign press.
00:20:21.000 I was reading stuff from Europe and what they were writing about the weapons of mass destruction and that there wasn't any evidence and it wasn't being covered like it was here.
00:20:33.000 It was more open, more transparent, the reporting.
00:20:38.000 So I was trusting that and I trusting sources that I had trusted in the past.
00:20:42.000 And realized that when I did question, the attacks were vociferous.
00:20:49.000 So, that usually is a tell, like in poker.
00:20:52.000 That's like a.
00:20:53.000 It usually means you're onto something.
00:20:55.000 You're over the mark.
00:20:56.000 When I came out against that first war in Iraq in 91, I remember the elder Bush said, well, you know, this is a democracy.
00:21:07.000 People have the right to oppose it.
00:21:09.000 And that was their response.
00:21:11.000 But this one was like, you're a traitor, you're a Saddam supporter, terrorist.
00:21:15.000 Sympathizer, all that stuff.
00:21:17.000 They really attacked.
00:21:18.000 And that told me that I was probably over the target, you know?
00:21:22.000 Yeah.
00:21:23.000 That had to be a very disturbing moment because, look, it turns out you were right.
00:21:29.000 And not only were you right, but now, today, in 2026, it's universally accepted that there were no weapons of mass destruction.
00:21:36.000 That was a terrible war.
00:21:37.000 And it was not something that should have ever happened.
00:21:39.000 Yeah.
00:21:39.000 Universally.
00:21:40.000 Yeah.
00:21:41.000 If you said it today, it's not even remotely controversial.
00:21:43.000 Yeah.
00:21:44.000 Well, that's the way it works.
00:21:46.000 They admit the truth later.
00:21:48.000 You know, I think they're doing that now with COVID.
00:21:51.000 You know, Fauci's going to do his thing tomorrow.
00:21:55.000 I'm very curious to see what happens with that.
00:21:57.000 Well, they don't give you a universal pardon for 10 years if you didn't do something.
00:22:04.000 I mean, you don't campaign for that if there's not some smoke.
00:22:07.000 Yeah, that was a very scary time.
00:22:10.000 You know, it was, you know, to come out when people, when the media is attacking you, it's a very scary thing.
00:22:19.000 But the great good fortune I had.
00:22:21.000 In 2003.
00:22:23.000 So I was living in New York at the time, right?
00:22:26.000 So I would have to walk my kids to school.
00:22:28.000 And I remember thinking, oh my God, what's going to happen?
00:22:32.000 Are there going to be people yelling at me, et cetera?
00:22:35.000 And that wasn't the truth.
00:22:38.000 The truth was that people, if anything, said, you know, way to go.
00:22:42.000 Thanks for speaking for us.
00:22:42.000 Right.
00:22:45.000 And if they disagreed, they said, you know, you have the right to do it.
00:22:48.000 That's the way generally people are in this country.
00:22:51.000 And should be.
00:22:52.000 I usually would take, every year I would take my kids to the Final Four, and that year it was in San Antonio.
00:23:01.000 And I remember thinking, oh my God, I'm going down to Texas, and they're going to yell at me down there, and no one said a damn thing.
00:23:07.000 So the reality on the ground was a lot different than the reality they were creating.
00:23:11.000 The reality they were creating was to intimidate other people into silence.
00:23:14.000 It wasn't based on any kind of real reality of people being angry at me.
00:23:20.000 It was more them trying to intimidate others.
00:23:23.000 And so that same thing kind of happened.
00:23:27.000 Happen, I recognized that same smell when COVID was happening, when people came out and started asking questions and were deplatformed or marginalized or canceled.
00:23:41.000 And, you know, I followed what you were going through with the ivermectin, which was a drug that I had taken, and, you know, I had lost my sense of smell, and a day later it was back.
00:23:55.000 So I knew there was something going on with that.
00:23:57.000 And, You know, in an emergency, why not find whatever you can treat until your magic potion arrives?
00:24:06.000 You know?
00:24:06.000 It wasn't just that.
00:24:07.000 It was like the completely disingenuous characterization of it as a veterinary drug and calling it horse paste or horse dewormer, which is crazy.
00:24:18.000 It's crazy to what?
00:24:18.000 Yeah.
00:24:19.000 Because maybe that would have worked in 1980 when people would have to go to the encyclopedia to find out what ivermectin really was.
00:24:26.000 But when you're trying to do that in 2020, it's just too easy to look up, oh, look.
00:24:31.000 It got a Nobel Prize for use in human beings.
00:24:35.000 Oh, it's great for yellow fever and dengue fever and river blindness.
00:24:38.000 And oh, this has been used billions of times.
00:24:40.000 Oh, it's one of the safest.
00:24:42.000 It's in the World Health Organization's essential medicines list?
00:24:42.000 Oh, wait a minute.
00:24:45.000 Yeah.
00:24:46.000 This is crazy.
00:24:46.000 Yeah.
00:24:47.000 But yet on television, it's horse dewormer.
00:24:49.000 And even the Rolling Stone had an article where they showed people waiting in line.
00:24:49.000 Right.
00:24:53.000 They said that people in Oklahoma were waiting in line at the emergency room with gunshot wounds because they couldn't get in there because so many people were overdosing from ivermectin.
00:25:03.000 Right.
00:25:03.000 Which is just fake.
00:25:05.000 Yeah.
00:25:06.000 And it's in the Rolling Stone, and you're like, what is going on?
00:25:10.000 This is insane.
00:25:11.000 Even the photograph was fake.
00:25:12.000 The photograph showed people wearing winter coats because really the line was people waiting for a flu shot.
00:25:18.000 That was the actual line.
00:25:20.000 And they were trying to say that these are people waiting in line to go to the emergency room for a gunshot.
00:25:24.000 It was like, first of all, how many fucking people are getting shot in Oklahoma?
00:25:27.000 What's going on over there?
00:25:28.000 Are you having gunfights on the streets?
00:25:31.000 Wild stuff going on at the time.
00:25:34.000 The disinformation and the.
00:25:37.000 Just orchestrated propaganda, orchestrated, organized, with big money behind it.
00:25:43.000 Wild, wild to watch.
00:25:47.000 I suspect that that whole period of time was another way to divide us, you know, in the larger picture.
00:25:54.000 You know, orchestrated chaos masquerading as a revolution, you know.
00:26:01.000 There's been so many of those things over the past five years, you know, alliances that you're building, and then all of a sudden there's a new.
00:26:10.000 Crisis, and now you don't like those people that you were building alliances with, and it's just one after the other.
00:26:16.000 And I ultimately, at the end of the day, I think it's all about division, it's all about dividing us and making us argue with each other, not finding common ground.
00:26:25.000 And that's ultimately the strategy that's been used from time immemorial you know, for the power to stay in power.
00:26:35.000 How do you get people fighting with each other?
00:26:37.000 Right, yeah, people don't like to hear that, but that's That's a strategy that's been used all throughout history.
00:26:43.000 And it's a good one.
00:26:44.000 And it works.
00:26:45.000 Yeah, it works.
00:26:46.000 And especially in today's day and age when you have social media and then you have not just our government but many governments that have fake accounts.
00:26:55.000 And these people just get outraged about things or attack things or have a narrative that they push.
00:27:01.000 And you don't know if it's real people, you don't know what it is, just a bunch of accounts.
00:27:04.000 You go to the accounts, a guy's face.
00:27:06.000 It's a woman wearing a dress, holding a book.
00:27:08.000 She seems normal.
00:27:09.000 Meanwhile, it's a man somewhere with a bank of computers that are all connected to the internet that's typing in.
00:27:15.000 These different responses with a bunch of different, or now it's AI automated.
00:27:19.000 You know, you tell this bot to be a right wing nationalist that's like attacking anything.
00:27:19.000 Yeah.
00:27:24.000 That's.
00:27:25.000 Yeah, it's crazy.
00:27:26.000 Yeah.
00:27:26.000 And it's on both sides.
00:27:27.000 And it's nuts.
00:27:29.000 I was over in London doing a project, and I noticed this was during their lockdown.
00:27:35.000 And I noticed by my hotel there was this protest, and I went down to check it out, put my mask on.
00:27:42.000 I was very compliant at the start of all this.
00:27:45.000 And I noticed what they were portraying as National Front right wingers was actually hippies and homeopaths and free speech activists.
00:27:56.000 And I talked to them.
00:27:58.000 And I tweeted, hey, I don't think it's a right-left thing here.
00:28:04.000 And hundreds of attacks of whether they're bots or organized army of righteousness, I have no idea.
00:28:15.000 But it was, I just, at that point, I was like, fuck it, I'm not going to put my foot in this water.
00:28:21.000 These people are nuts.
00:28:22.000 This is a crazy, crazy time.
00:28:25.000 Yeah, it was crazy not just from the propaganda perspective, but from actual people that I knew that were really terrified that got caught up in it all.
00:28:33.000 And it was, you know, mass formation psychosis is what some people called it.
00:28:38.000 I think that's a good description of it.
00:28:38.000 Yeah.
00:28:40.000 Robert Malone, I think, termed that or got that from somebody else.
00:28:43.000 But that's really what it was.
00:28:45.000 Like everybody just kind of went nutty.
00:28:47.000 And there were people that were doing the government's job for the government or the pharmaceutical drug company's job for them.
00:28:53.000 They were the ones that were enforcing all these things.
00:28:56.000 Yeah.
00:28:57.000 And they were doing it because they wanted to be, they wanted a solution, they wanted to be correct.
00:29:01.000 And unfortunately, There's a lot of people in this world that don't experience much real adversity, and when real adversity comes to them, they fall apart and they don't know what to do, and they get scared and they lump up together in teams and then they reinforce each other and repeat the same things, and they all want to be a part of the right side of history or the right side of whatever it is.
00:29:25.000 And also, they're being led to believe that that's the virtuous thing to do.
00:29:29.000 And so it's not like their intentions are good.
00:29:33.000 And because of that, you know, I've had a similar experience where, you know, friends of mine and people I love that, you know, fell into that as I did.
00:29:44.000 I fell into it for a while, you know, that kind of fear-based kind of behavior.
00:29:48.000 And I just, I've come to understand in my later years that one of the things that's truly liberating is the ability to say, I don't know.
00:30:01.000 Yeah.
00:30:01.000 And I may have been wrong.
00:30:03.000 These are two things that have led to such great discovery for me.
00:30:09.000 I really don't trust anymore.
00:30:13.000 I don't trust virtuous experts.
00:30:15.000 I don't think experts are.
00:30:20.000 I don't believe in experts.
00:30:24.000 I think if you consider yourself an expert, you're done learning.
00:30:28.000 You're done speaking with others.
00:30:31.000 You're done challenging yourself.
00:30:33.000 And when we put our.
00:30:36.000 Faith and trust in people that are deemed experts, ultimately, throughout my experience, it's led to bad things.
00:30:45.000 The experts that talked about weapons of mass destruction, the experts that talk about various things that have led us to violent altercations throughout the world, I don't trust them anymore.
00:31:00.000 I trust the idea that there are many sides to a story and that there is very, there's a lot to Be gained from having dialogue with people you disagree with.
00:31:11.000 Absolutely.
00:31:12.000 I mean, you know, there are experts in some fields and we do need them.
00:31:17.000 It is important.
00:31:18.000 Like, if you want information about the Large Hadron Collider, you don't understand, like, what are you guys doing over there?
00:31:25.000 Over there, you need to talk to someone who actually understands it, who's an expert on particle colliders.
00:31:30.000 It takes a long time to develop that sort of knowledge base and have an understanding of what they're actually trying to accomplish.
00:31:37.000 What is the Higgs boson?
00:31:38.000 What was this particle that is a part of that?
00:31:41.000 It's the earliest stages of the universe.
00:31:41.000 What?
00:31:43.000 Okay.
00:31:45.000 You're going to measure it?
00:31:45.000 I'll be in the bar.
00:31:46.000 It exists for a quarter of a second or something like that.
00:31:48.000 What?
00:31:48.000 What are you guys doing?
00:31:49.000 Yeah.
00:31:49.000 But the problem is to bring it back to COVID, one of the things that Fauci said that was so wild.
00:31:56.000 He said, when you are criticizing Anthony Fauci, you're criticizing science.
00:32:00.000 Yeah.
00:32:00.000 Well, that is one of the just the fact that he felt so confident that he could say that.
00:32:07.000 That is such a crazy thing to say.
00:32:09.000 And then science became like an object, became a religion.
00:32:13.000 Well, science is supposed to be data, it's supposed to be measuring data, and it's supposed to never be settled.
00:32:21.000 And it's always supposed to have a bunch of people from various positions of viewing down on this thing.
00:32:28.000 Analyzing it with new studies, new data, new tests, new hypothesis, working out and communicating with each other.
00:32:35.000 It's not supposed to be a brick.
00:32:36.000 Like, you know, like this is a brick.
00:32:38.000 If you question the brick, like, no, no, this is a fucking fluid thing that exists only if you allow people to ask questions.
00:32:45.000 The moment you stop questioning data, then like, and even real experts, like guys from MIT and Harvard were getting deplatformed off of Twitter because they didn't believe it.
00:32:57.000 They were saying, look, I don't think this lockdown idea is a good idea.
00:33:00.000 It's bad for children.
00:33:01.000 I think children aren't even really susceptible to this disease.
00:33:05.000 Like, why are we doing this?
00:33:06.000 Like, what's going on?
00:33:07.000 It became a faith, it became dogma.
00:33:09.000 And if you questioned the dogma, you were a heretic.
00:33:12.000 You were kicked out of the religion.
00:33:14.000 It was a scary time and still is scary.
00:33:19.000 You know, we deal with the Actors Gang, my nonprofit in Los Angeles, we have education programs.
00:33:24.000 And we've been dealing with the ramifications of that lockdown for the last five years, you know.
00:33:32.000 This kid's had two years robbed of them from socialization and education.
00:33:38.000 Imagine that was your senior year of high school, too.
00:33:41.000 Oh, my God.
00:33:42.000 Fuck.
00:33:42.000 We're dealing with the after effects of that.
00:33:45.000 And gratefully, the kind of work we do brings them out again and gets them expressing emotions, making eye contact, having experiences with other children that are productive.
00:33:59.000 The good news is you can.
00:34:03.000 Get out of that funk, but that was really scary to see those kids walk in to classes after that lockdown because they wouldn't make eye contact looking at the floor, you know, kind of de socialized and traumatized.
00:34:19.000 And, you know, it was really scary.
00:34:22.000 Critical development time for them.
00:34:24.000 Absolutely.
00:34:24.000 Absolutely.
00:34:25.000 And all of a sudden they're wearing, like, imagine being a toddler and all of a sudden everyone has a mask on.
00:34:25.000 Yeah.
00:34:31.000 It's weird.
00:34:31.000 You don't want to wear the mask.
00:34:34.000 They keep trying to take it off and people yell at them, put it back on.
00:34:37.000 So it's like, Terror and anxiety and confusion.
00:34:39.000 Also, you're not reading people's faces, which is like an important part of the developmental process.
00:34:44.000 You get to know people, you read faces, you see how people talk.
00:34:48.000 All of a sudden, everyone's wearing a mask, everyone's robbing a bank.
00:34:51.000 Like, this is crazy.
00:34:52.000 Yeah.
00:34:52.000 I mean, you know, I've tried to approach it all with just the openness and compassion for people that went through that.
00:34:52.000 Yeah.
00:35:03.000 You know, I don't attach blame.
00:35:04.000 I don't, you know, everyone, there was a pretty sophisticated propaganda.
00:35:09.000 Machine that was happening.
00:35:11.000 And I have great compassion for people that fell into that.
00:35:16.000 And I, you know, I just want us to not do it again.
00:35:22.000 To not do it again.
00:35:23.000 You know, I want us to have the knowledge and the consciousness to not fall for that again.
00:35:31.000 Yeah, hopefully.
00:35:32.000 It's just, it was very eye opening that it was so easy to pull off, you know, that it was so easy to get people to just gang up like that.
00:35:42.000 It was just.
00:35:45.000 It said, it was, it said a lot about us.
00:35:48.000 Unfortunately.
00:35:48.000 Yeah.
00:35:50.000 And, you know, I hold faith in humanity, but that was a tough one.
00:35:59.000 I do as well.
00:36:00.000 And I think it was a learning moment for a lot of people, whether they admit to it or not, whether they're public about it or not.
00:36:06.000 Because I know a lot of people that just weren't public about their dissent, but they really didn't like any of it.
00:36:11.000 And they just didn't really have a position to talk about it.
00:36:14.000 And they wanted to keep their job and wanted to keep their place in the community or whatever it was that they were trying to protect.
00:36:20.000 And they kept their mouth shut.
00:36:21.000 But you'd get a couple of drinks in them when they were alone, they would tell you.
00:36:25.000 Well, that begs the larger question is, you know, is it freedom of speech if when you freely speak, your job is threatened and your future is threatened?
00:36:35.000 Is that, are we living in a free society, you know?
00:36:39.000 Right.
00:36:41.000 It's, and that's still, that's not just COVID, that's a lot of things.
00:36:46.000 It's a lot of things.
00:36:47.000 It's almost everything.
00:36:49.000 And it's one of the most important things that we do is we disagree.
00:36:55.000 We talk, you have conversations.
00:36:57.000 It's the only way to learn.
00:36:58.000 And you get exposed to information that maybe you didn't know before you establish this opinion that you're arguing.
00:37:04.000 Do you know what was the big tragedy, in my opinion, during that time period is that we totally lost the water cooler conversation, that accidental conversation that happens at work with a co worker who you don't necessarily agree with, but it's a human being expressing something to you.
00:37:27.000 in person and you have to deal with that person and their opposing viewpoint.
00:37:34.000 We got into our own silos of thought and algorithms of thought and everything we experienced during that period of time was an affirmation of what we believed rather than a challenge to it.
00:37:50.000 And so the water cooler was completely eliminated.
00:37:53.000 The idea that the accidental conversation at a bar where you're watching a Game on the television, and someone sits next to you that is not necessarily of your belief system, but you buy them a beer and you watch the game together.
00:38:10.000 You know, all these moments of uh meeting up that were eliminated, and uh, you know, that's what I love about sports.
00:38:21.000 I love that you can go watch a game and not think about politics, right?
00:38:26.000 Think about your differences, and think about the team that you like, and and and support them together.
00:38:32.000 Same thing with theater.
00:38:34.000 any kind of gathering of individuals, music.
00:38:41.000 What I love about the theater that we do is that we're able to take people to a common emotion.
00:38:47.000 And we never want to have a completely we don't want audiences that think the same, right?
00:38:57.000 You want a disparate amount of people, different beliefs, that you can get them to share a common emotion, get them to laugh together, get them to feel something and cry together.
00:39:09.000 That's the community you're able to build when you're doing a show, as you know.
00:39:16.000 What really pissed me off was that when we're, we have a theater in Los Angeles and it was two years we had to be closed.
00:39:24.000 And a year and a half in, we were told we could open, but we'd have to check vaccine passports at the door.
00:39:32.000 And I talked to some people at the theater and we agreed.
00:39:35.000 It was, no, we can't do that.
00:39:37.000 Because what that is doing is it's basically saying the only people allowed in our theater are people that agree with what the government wanted.
00:39:47.000 And that for me is not a theater.
00:39:49.000 That betrays the whole purpose and function of what a theater should be.
00:39:54.000 It's a gathering place for the community that might think differently to bring them together.
00:39:59.000 And this was saying basically, if you agree, you can come in.
00:40:03.000 And so we waited another six months before we opened the theater until everyone could come in.
00:40:11.000 Yeah, there was a time where you had to have a vaccine passport in order to perform.
00:40:21.000 There was an exemption in New York, and you had to have a vaccine passport if you wanted to go to a show, but you didn't have to have one if you were performing.
00:40:30.000 And I did Madison Square Garden.
00:40:32.000 So the whole audience had to have vaccine passports, but I didn't.
00:40:37.000 And so there was a senator, I forget who it was, that was proposing a new law based on me sneaking through the loophole that performers should have to be vaccinated as well.
00:40:50.000 And he was upset.
00:40:51.000 That I didn't have a vaccine, and that I wasn't performing.
00:40:55.000 You could have infected the entire Madison Square.
00:40:58.000 I could have been a super spreader, yeah.
00:41:00.000 But well, you know, in London, because I spent a lot of time over there in the last five years, but their West End rebounded immediately, unlike Broadway.
00:41:11.000 And the reason it did is because during that time period, you could show a vaccine passport, but you could also show a negative test.
00:41:18.000 So they didn't demand that you have a vaccine.
00:41:22.000 So they didn't lose their audience.
00:41:24.000 Their audience came right back.
00:41:27.000 And in Broadway, they basically told a third of their audience, you're not welcome.
00:41:32.000 And so I can see why it might have been a struggle to get those people back into the theater.
00:41:37.000 It didn't make any sense.
00:41:37.000 Well, it was great.
00:41:39.000 Like, if the people are negative, they're negative.
00:41:40.000 What do you give a shit if they're vaccinated?
00:41:42.000 Also, what about people that got COVID and then recovered from it who have far superior immunity, like 7x superior immunity to people who were vaccinated?
00:41:52.000 Like, what are we doing here?
00:41:53.000 Like, this is, are you, you're doing the pharmaceutical drug companies work for them?
00:41:58.000 Yeah.
00:41:59.000 And you're making people follow along in lockstep.
00:42:03.000 And it's just nuts.
00:42:04.000 It just didn't even make sense that people were going along with this.
00:42:07.000 Yeah.
00:42:09.000 Well, glad that's in the rear view mirror.
00:42:12.000 Yeah, for now.
00:42:14.000 But, you know, I feel like it's a case study in a lot of.
00:42:17.000 I mean, if there are people that are manipulating society, and I think there are, there's a lot of lessons that they learn from how we behave.
00:42:25.000 And, you know, relatively speaking, without making light of the pandemic, relatively speaking, a fairly mild pandemic.
00:42:33.000 In terms of, like, you know, the bubonic plague and all sorts of other things that have happened throughout history, the Spanish flu have killed way more people.
00:42:40.000 Like, it could have been way worse, right?
00:42:43.000 So, just one that was just twice as bad as the flu got people to behave like that.
00:42:49.000 Yeah.
00:42:50.000 Yeah.
00:42:51.000 Well, the good news is, though, the uptake wasn't, you know, a lot of people took it because they had to.
00:43:00.000 It wasn't, like, enthusiastically taking it.
00:43:04.000 We did a play called Topsy Turvy, which was about.
00:43:07.000 Lockdown, and we performed that in Eastern Europe and it was really interesting to see their response there, because I would one of them said afterwards, you know, I asked, you know what was the uptake on the vaccines in in Romania?
00:43:22.000 And they said something like 40 percent.
00:43:24.000 I said well, how do you explain that?
00:43:26.000 And they said well, you know, we lived under the Soviet Union for many years, so we know how to look like we comply when we're not complying.
00:43:36.000 And I said, what else reminds you of the Soviet Union?
00:43:39.000 They said, without a doubt, cancel culture.
00:43:42.000 He said, well, Soviet Union used to keep files on all of us, right?
00:43:42.000 I said why?
00:43:47.000 So as long as you're a good party member, there wouldn't be a thing?
00:43:49.000 Said yeah, but once you stepped out of line, they brought out that old file.
00:43:55.000 Now, that affair with your secretary from 30 years ago.
00:43:57.000 It's going to ruin your life, they're going to ruin your family, they're going to kill your career and they're going to make a big public display of it to show other people to stay in line.
00:44:09.000 And they felt like cancel culture was basically operating in the same way As the Soviet Union did.
00:44:16.000 And it was really interesting to see that perspective in Eastern Europe.
00:44:20.000 People that have, you know, lived under that kind of oppressive situation and their perspective on modern day.
00:44:29.000 That must have really made you think about what happened to you during the Iraq War.
00:44:32.000 Yeah.
00:44:33.000 Right?
00:44:34.000 Yeah.
00:44:35.000 That in particular, because back then there's no real social media.
00:44:39.000 There's no real way to get your message out.
00:44:39.000 Yeah.
00:44:42.000 Oh man, they lied.
00:44:44.000 They made up things.
00:44:46.000 They made up this.
00:44:47.000 I was doing this play embedded at the time at the public theater, and we'd go out afterwards.
00:44:53.000 The New York Post wrote that I was making out with a woman under a palm tree at this club.
00:45:00.000 They just made it up and cut me in.
00:45:03.000 It didn't really help my marriage at the time.
00:45:07.000 They just lie.
00:45:08.000 They basically lie.
00:45:10.000 They'll attack you.
00:45:11.000 They just decided you were an enemy and they were going to pull out whatever stops they made.
00:45:15.000 They're going to discredit you in whatever way they can.
00:45:17.000 Wild.
00:45:19.000 Yeah, that's a powerful thing when it hits you and you realize, oh my God, the truth doesn't matter here.
00:45:24.000 Yeah, well, that's what's so scary about it is that in this country where freedom of speech is supposed to be one of the cornerstones of our society, it's one of the most important things we all recognize that separates us from everywhere else in history.
00:45:36.000 Like, this is the first country where really it's written into the doctrine of the country.
00:45:42.000 You're supposed to have the freedom, the ability to express yourself.
00:45:48.000 Being attacked and suppressed in all sorts of different ways, not just stopping your ability to express yourself, but attacking you in a concerted effort and lying about you, just lying about you in order to scare other people.
00:46:01.000 It's very Orwellian and it's very un American.
00:46:04.000 And the fact that, like, the New York Post would do that to you, or whoever it was from the New York Post would do that, like, what the fuck, man?
00:46:10.000 Well, the good news is there's no gulags.
00:46:13.000 You know, they don't arrest you in the middle of the night and force you into some kind of prison.
00:46:13.000 Yeah.
00:46:21.000 Thousands of miles away.
00:46:22.000 Sure, it could be worse.
00:46:23.000 But it's not along the line of the American way of life.
00:46:23.000 Yeah.
00:46:28.000 And if you are a person who really does appreciate what this experience and this experiment in self government, which was the United States, it's supposed to have free discourse.
00:46:43.000 That's a big part of it.
00:46:45.000 And the founding fathers recognized that.
00:46:47.000 You've got to have the ability to talk about things.
00:46:49.000 We're fucked because if someone can tell you what you can and can't say, that's step one.
00:46:56.000 And then everything else falls in line after that.
00:46:58.000 And next thing you know, you've got a dictatorship.
00:47:00.000 Dictatorship.
00:47:01.000 Right.
00:47:02.000 And there's people that have lost opportunities or in show business recently, including my ex Susan Sarandon, who was against what was happening in Israel and lost her agent and having a hard time finding work.
00:47:19.000 This is crazy.
00:47:20.000 This is nuts.
00:47:22.000 And especially someone like Susan Sarandon, one of the most respected and established actors of many generations.
00:47:22.000 Yeah.
00:47:31.000 She's been around forever.
00:47:32.000 Yeah.
00:47:33.000 The fact that a take on something that, if you're just looking at it, like, what is, what are you, how could you defend that?
00:47:41.000 Like, how could anybody defend that?
00:47:43.000 I don't even know how many people are dead.
00:47:43.000 Right.
00:47:45.000 You have a complete wipeout of a city, like 90% of Gaza's gone, or whatever the percentage is.
00:47:51.000 You look at the buildings, you look at what it used to look like, you look at what it looks like now.
00:47:54.000 Like, this is defensible?
00:47:55.000 Yeah.
00:47:56.000 Yeah.
00:47:58.000 And I think the point of it is to make a show of it and to say, see, we could do that to her, so we could do it to you, so shut the fuck up.
00:48:05.000 Yeah.
00:48:05.000 Yeah.
00:48:06.000 Especially the timing of when you do it, right?
00:48:09.000 If you're against Gaza now, it's safer than being against what happened a year and a half ago, say.
00:48:17.000 You know, especially close to October 7th.
00:48:17.000 Right.
00:48:19.000 If you were one of the early, like Roger Waters, one of the early people talking about this is, you're watching genocide in real time.
00:48:28.000 Right.
00:48:29.000 They came for that guy.
00:48:31.000 Yeah.
00:48:32.000 And, you know, more people see it the way he sees it now.
00:48:36.000 And just like what happened to you with the Iraq War, 20 years from now, it's going to be a universally accepted opinion, I bet.
00:48:42.000 Yeah.
00:48:43.000 Yeah.
00:48:46.000 Well, it's just.
00:48:49.000 It's crazy to go through something like that.
00:48:51.000 And for you to have gone through it really early on, for you to have gone through that in 2003, I guess it really does inform your opinions, though.
00:49:00.000 Like when you see things that are happening today, you go, okay, I've seen this before.
00:49:06.000 Looking for after that was a way to be someone that was more involved with something that could affect change.
00:49:16.000 In other words, I used my nonprofit, we started a prison program 20 years ago, and we see the change that happens.
00:49:29.000 We have people that go in and basically offer rehabilitation in the form of theater and not doing plays or anything, but getting people to.
00:49:40.000 Play emotions through characters that we introduce to them.
00:49:44.000 And in doing so, unlocking emotions that have been suppressed for many, many years.
00:49:50.000 So in prison, there's one go to emotion it's anger.
00:49:54.000 That's your survival face, that's your mask on the yard.
00:49:58.000 You have to be a badass or you're going to die.
00:50:01.000 But sadness is compromising, fear is compromising, and happiness is genuinely not encouraged either.
00:50:12.000 So We get these guys in a room, we get to introduce them to these stock characters from the Comedia dell'arte, and then they have to express their emotions and make choices with their emotions in improv.
00:50:24.000 And what they find is that if someone approaches them in anger in an improv, the facilitator will encourage a different emotion in response to anger than anger, right?
00:50:35.000 And what they come to understand is that they don't have to respond to anger with anger, there are other choices.
00:50:44.000 In fact, in real life, they can do that too if they can do it in an improv.
00:50:48.000 And so, what happens is these people tap into long dormant emotions and start to understand that they are more than the worst act that got them there.
00:50:59.000 They tend to create bonds across gang ties, racial lines.
00:51:07.000 When we're putting together a group, we ask that rival gangs are in the same room with each other.
00:51:12.000 Oh, wow.
00:51:13.000 And what happens is these bonds are made through the sharing of emotion.
00:51:19.000 These guys into an improv where they're all putting a flower on a grave of someone and saying something under their breath about the person that's deceased.
00:51:28.000 And then at some point, the facilitator will say, Now look at each other.
00:51:31.000 And they're looking at each other with these eyes of sadness, and they realize they have a lot in common, you know, in that shared emotion.
00:51:40.000 I had two guys come up to me, one black guy, one white guy.
00:51:44.000 They said, We've got to tell you what happened two weeks ago.
00:51:46.000 We were, our shock callers said, You know, we're going to have a fight on the yard.
00:51:51.000 And so.
00:51:52.000 You know, you never question the shot caller, and so you know what's going to happen.
00:51:57.000 And so, what they did was they found each other, these two guys, and they rolled around on the floor acting like they were killing each other.
00:52:09.000 Wow.
00:52:10.000 How convenient.
00:52:11.000 Yeah.
00:52:12.000 So, it looked like they were participating, but they weren't hurting each other.
00:52:17.000 Oh, wow.
00:52:18.000 That's a good solution.
00:52:21.000 It's amazing what happens when you experience something like that in person, when you see the transformation happen.
00:52:27.000 And we see this in our school children as well.
00:52:30.000 That's something that is deeply inspiring.
00:52:35.000 You know that you've had something to do with a real change, right?
00:52:40.000 Whereas for years I was asked to attend fundraisers and various causes.
00:52:48.000 And yeah, it's great that they're doing that and it's great that they're raising money for these organizations that need it.
00:52:56.000 But at the end of the day, you don't really feel like it did anything other than go to a dinner.
00:53:02.000 And this was a way to get my hands dirty and really, you know, get in the struggle of it.
00:53:08.000 And I found it to be so much more satisfying as far as whatever inclination I had towards activism was really fed by this as opposed to hopping from fundraiser to fundraiser.
00:53:25.000 It just felt more real.
00:53:26.000 It felt like something that I could take that experience and then I could say to my group, let's expand, let's get into more and more prisons.
00:53:34.000 And now we're in.
00:53:35.000 18 prisons in the state of California doing these programs.
00:53:38.000 Did you have to develop a curriculum, like how you begin to reach out to these guys and how you set it up?
00:53:47.000 It took a couple years, you know, kind of pilot program in one prison in Chino and Norco in Southern California.
00:53:57.000 Trial and error, you know, what's the way to do it, what's the way not to do it.
00:54:03.000 Of course, you go through a training with the prison system of certain things.
00:54:07.000 To watch out for, and you develop these lines where you say, We're here to do this, not to talk about your case.
00:54:16.000 There's all kinds of things you learn how to avoid the distractions that will derail the program.
00:54:23.000 But essentially, it's a very physical way of working, and it's also, there is a lot of fun in it.
00:54:31.000 So those two things together allow the entry for these guys that are, you know, They're in the room because they want to be there, but it's weird stuff we're asking them to do.
00:54:43.000 Right.
00:54:43.000 And if they can have a laugh about it and then something about it shifts some kind of consciousness inside them, that means something to people.
00:54:53.000 You've got to remember these people are, you know, when we started, there was only one other program in the state of California that was offering rehabilitation through any theater.
00:55:07.000 So there were a couple music programs and two theater programs, and now we're able to lobby the state to. get more funding for arts and corrections because art is a transformer.
00:55:20.000 It is something that can shift consciousness.
00:55:23.000 I truly believe that.
00:55:24.000 I've seen it with my own, the work that I've done.
00:55:29.000 I've seen how people can think in a different way after they see something in the theater or in movies or a good stand-up can do the same thing.
00:55:41.000 How George Carlin used to shift my consciousness every new special because he would always be challenging me.
00:55:47.000 Sure.
00:55:48.000 It wouldn't be like, hey, you know, we're all in the same club.
00:55:51.000 It would be, yeah, you thought we were in the same club, but here's a little thought.
00:55:57.000 And you realize he's talking right at one of your hypocrisies.
00:56:02.000 And that was his genius.
00:56:03.000 It was this ability to really tap into, we can be better.
00:56:07.000 Right.
00:56:07.000 We can all be better.
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00:57:05.000 Yeah, there's been a few guys like that throughout history that really have figured out a way to embed humor into social commentary.
00:57:13.000 George Carlin's probably the most known for it, but do you know about Bill Hicks?
00:57:18.000 Yeah, for sure.
00:57:18.000 So he was probably in my generation, he was the one that twisted people the most.
00:57:24.000 Like a lot of comics would watch him and go, What am I doing?
00:57:27.000 Why am I doing what I'm doing?
00:57:29.000 This guy's doing something that's so much more meaningful.
00:57:31.000 Yeah.
00:57:32.000 Who was it in Apatow's documentary about Carlin?
00:57:36.000 There was a comedian that said, George Carlin was basically in the early part of the century, in the 1900s, philosophers debating used to be a huge deal, right?
00:57:49.000 Like hundreds of people, thousands of people come watch people debate two different points of view.
00:57:54.000 Sure.
00:57:55.000 He said, That's what the current philosophers of our generation are the better stand up comedians.
00:58:02.000 The ones that test your belief system by saying something that might be controversial or challenges your worldview.
00:58:12.000 That's the great purpose and function of a philosopher or a stand up comedian is to take your worldview, shatter it a little bit, and make you rethink.
00:58:23.000 Yeah.
00:58:24.000 Yeah.
00:58:25.000 And Hicks.
00:58:27.000 Was sort of for our generation, he was like the first guy that really did that in a way that, like, some of the things that he said weren't even designed to be funny at all.
00:58:37.000 It was just designed to make you think about things differently.
00:58:39.000 And then he would hit you with some funny things after that for to keep you occupied.
00:58:44.000 Yeah.
00:58:45.000 Yeah.
00:58:46.000 Provocative statements that, you know, the first reaction is fuck that.
00:58:52.000 No, that's not true.
00:58:53.000 And then you realize, oh shit, he's bringing me there.
00:58:53.000 Fuck that.
00:58:56.000 And it's like a great play can do that too.
00:58:58.000 A great movie can do that too.
00:59:00.000 Provoke you and challenge you and then make you refocus, rethink.
00:59:08.000 Yeah, it's just amazing how little of that we have today.
00:59:13.000 And how much content we have today.
00:59:15.000 Did you ever see the documentary?
00:59:18.000 God, what is it?
00:59:20.000 The documentary with William F. Buckley and the other.
00:59:24.000 Yeah, you know what I'm talking about.
00:59:25.000 Gore Vidal.
00:59:26.000 Gore Vidal, yeah.
00:59:27.000 Yeah.
00:59:27.000 Where they had these.
00:59:29.000 I guess it was NBC, I think it was.
00:59:31.000 And NBC was failing in the ratings.
00:59:34.000 I was going to say Relentless Enemies, but that's the line.
00:59:36.000 Best of Enemies.
00:59:37.000 Best of Enemies.
00:59:38.000 Best of Enemies, yeah.
00:59:39.000 Great documentary.
00:59:40.000 Yeah.
00:59:40.000 So they had a series of these debates on television.
00:59:44.000 Gore Vidal being a progressive and William F. Buckley being a conservative.
00:59:48.000 It was very interesting because this kind of hadn't happened before on television where you have these long form discussions with these two guys just intellectually jabbing at each other.
01:00:00.000 And it was great.
01:00:00.000 Yeah.
01:00:01.000 It's like the documentary is really amazing.
01:00:04.000 I was friends with Gore.
01:00:06.000 Oh, really?
01:00:08.000 Yeah.
01:00:09.000 He agreed to do my first film, Bob Roberts, which is about a right wing folk singing candidate for Senate.
01:00:17.000 Pennsylvania.
01:00:19.000 And Gore agreed to play Brickley Paste, my Democratic opponent, right?
01:00:25.000 And so he played a politician, which is something he always kind of flirted with in his real life.
01:00:33.000 And so I got to be quite friendly with him.
01:00:35.000 And I actually did a documentary that I'm editing right now about four soldiers from World War II that became great writers.
01:00:48.000 Gore, Kurt Vonnegut, Norman Mailer, and Howard Zinn are all in this documentary.
01:00:55.000 I filmed it many years ago, shelved it, and now I'm in the final stages of putting it together.
01:01:01.000 I'm opening a new website on September 1st, and this is one of the many things that I have in my vault and my storage units that I've just been getting out over the past year and finding all this crazy stuff that I have that I've never finished because I've been going from project to project to project.
01:01:17.000 So I slowed down a little bit and just opened up some.
01:01:21.000 Sealed boxes, and it's been really fun.
01:01:25.000 It's one of the things is also, I used to fuck around on film sets with this, you know, when I had enough money to buy a video camera for the first time.
01:01:35.000 And so I started making these little short films on movie sets.
01:01:39.000 And one of them is there's two films from when I was doing Howard the Duck.
01:01:47.000 And, you know, one of those endless productions that just went on and on and on.
01:01:52.000 So, I just started amusing myself by making my own little short films, including, you know, I'm sure illegally using the duck itself, you know, which I made a character in one of the films.
01:02:07.000 I forgot about Howard the Duck.
01:02:08.000 It was crazy.
01:02:10.000 We walked on the set.
01:02:11.000 What a fucking weird movie that was.
01:02:13.000 I know, right?
01:02:14.000 We walked on the set.
01:02:17.000 I walked on the set the first day I knew we were in trouble.
01:02:23.000 Why'd you know we were in trouble?
01:02:24.000 The puppet.
01:02:25.000 It wasn't ready.
01:02:27.000 And it was a little too cute.
01:02:29.000 If you look at the comic book, Howard the Duck was not that cute.
01:02:35.000 No, he was cigar smoking, kind of shitty, mean duck.
01:02:39.000 Yeah.
01:02:40.000 Kind of Fritz the Caddish, like, you know, like really kind of borderline obscene.
01:02:46.000 It was a Marvel comic, right?
01:02:47.000 Yeah.
01:02:47.000 Yeah.
01:02:48.000 And so, do you have an image of the old Howard the Duck from the comic?
01:02:53.000 Yeah.
01:02:54.000 That guy.
01:02:55.000 So I walked on the set and I saw that cute duck.
01:02:55.000 Yeah.
01:02:58.000 I was like, uh oh.
01:03:00.000 Yeah, he was always with chicks.
01:03:01.000 He was always with chicks, yeah.
01:03:01.000 Look at that.
01:03:05.000 Which was very weird.
01:03:06.000 Like, hey, lady, what are you doing?
01:03:08.000 You're fucking a duck?
01:03:10.000 What's going on here?
01:03:11.000 Bestiality?
01:03:12.000 Like, what is this?
01:03:13.000 What has his charm got you?
01:03:15.000 Like, what's the message there?
01:03:16.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:03:18.000 He's a strange character.
01:03:19.000 Very strange.
01:03:21.000 And I don't think they had the technology to pull it off.
01:03:25.000 Maybe they need to try again now.
01:03:27.000 Yeah, it'd be good.
01:03:28.000 I could take the old film and animate it.
01:03:31.000 But, you know, I spent six weeks on that film doing an ultralight chase that lasted maybe two minutes in the film.
01:03:40.000 What's an ultralight plane?
01:03:41.000 Do you know what the ultralight planes are?
01:03:44.000 Basically, it's you and the wings and a motor.
01:03:48.000 And so there's a chase sequence at the end that's about two and a half minutes, three minutes long.
01:03:52.000 Did you actually have to get in one of those things?
01:03:55.000 No.
01:03:56.000 I mean, I got in like a fake one.
01:03:58.000 Yeah.
01:03:58.000 Good.
01:04:00.000 No, you have to fly it.
01:04:01.000 The guy.
01:04:02.000 Yeah.
01:04:03.000 You have to.
01:04:04.000 That's fake, of course, right?
01:04:07.000 The duck's real.
01:04:08.000 Looks so legit.
01:04:14.000 Yeah.
01:04:14.000 Yeah.
01:04:16.000 Was that one of those ones where your little voice, he didn't listen?
01:04:20.000 No, not at all, because that was early in my career, right?
01:04:23.000 So it was George Lucas, remember?
01:04:26.000 George Lucas.
01:04:26.000 Yeah, and he just done Star Wars.
01:04:28.000 Whoa.
01:04:29.000 So it had to be good, right?
01:04:31.000 He went from Star Wars to Howard the Duck.
01:04:35.000 Well, he produced Howard the Duck.
01:04:36.000 Okay.
01:04:37.000 But he had just produced Star Wars.
01:04:41.000 So, you know, it was like, hell yeah.
01:04:43.000 I don't know.
01:04:43.000 Right.
01:04:44.000 It doesn't make sense on the page, but he'll figure it out.
01:04:47.000 He'll figure it out.
01:04:47.000 They'll figure it out.
01:04:52.000 I was so lucky, too.
01:04:54.000 Again, blessed because I got a movie called Five Corners that was with Jody Foster and John Terturo right around the same time.
01:05:04.000 So I had already done that movie when Howard came out.
01:05:09.000 So it's kind of saved my ass.
01:05:12.000 You already had one in the chamber.
01:05:13.000 Yeah.
01:05:14.000 You had a good one on the pipe.
01:05:15.000 Yeah.
01:05:17.000 Like, God.
01:05:21.000 It's just, I wonder why George did it.
01:05:23.000 Like, it seems so odd to try to do a movie with a talking duck.
01:05:28.000 Yeah.
01:05:28.000 Well, maybe it made sense when they imagined it.
01:05:32.000 Maybe they were on acid or something.
01:05:34.000 It seems.
01:05:35.000 I just remember those poor puppeteers, man.
01:05:37.000 They were trying to make this thing work.
01:05:38.000 And just, I don't think the technology really existed.
01:05:42.000 Well, it was like 86 or something.
01:05:44.000 Yeah.
01:05:45.000 And it was, they were trying so hard and.
01:05:48.000 It just was, it was, you know, I felt for everybody, including the director.
01:05:52.000 I felt he would try his damn best, you know, and it was just betrayal by puppeteering.
01:06:00.000 And it wasn't the puppeteers, it was the actual machinery.
01:06:05.000 Well, it's kind of, if you think about Star Wars in particular, it's kind of amazing.
01:06:08.000 They were able to pull that off with the technology that was available at the time to have this crazy movie where, like, the cantina scene and you go in there, there's all these different fucking creatures from.
01:06:23.000 Different planets, and like they did not have very good technology back then.
01:06:28.000 Like, if you watch that cantina scene now, like, whoa, looks terrible, right?
01:06:33.000 So clunky, like, the masks don't move, like, everyone's got their faces stuck.
01:06:38.000 It's almost like, you know, looking at claymation around that time, you know?
01:06:42.000 Yeah.
01:06:42.000 Yeah.
01:06:44.000 Amazing what they can do.
01:06:45.000 But I do like the old school.
01:06:47.000 I do like the kind of analog version of it.
01:06:51.000 Because with the CGI and everything, it's all so sophisticated.
01:06:55.000 Yeah.
01:06:57.000 They can do anything now, and you almost want them not to be able to do everything.
01:07:01.000 Right.
01:07:01.000 You know?
01:07:02.000 Oh, 100%.
01:07:03.000 Just want a little roughness around the edges.
01:07:03.000 Yeah.
01:07:07.000 Well, there's also a thing about CGI where the part of your brain.
01:07:07.000 It really helps.
01:07:12.000 That is looking at it recognizes that this is not a real thing happening.
01:07:16.000 Like, as good as it looks, there's something about it.
01:07:18.000 Yeah.
01:07:19.000 Which is why a lot of the movie special effects guys, like the monster guys, like Rick Baker and along those lines, who did Star Wars, American Werewolf in London, that thing outside, the wolf that you see in the hallway, they wanted to make sure that it looked like a real thing, right?
01:07:38.000 It was a physical object.
01:07:41.000 So, in order to make it a physical object, and obviously CGI wasn't even available back then.
01:07:45.000 But.
01:07:46.000 You see it and you know it's a real thing.
01:07:49.000 Whereas, like later on, they did The Wolfman and Rick Baker did that as well.
01:07:53.000 And there's a lot of CGI in there and the transformation scenes.
01:07:56.000 And this part of it is just like your brain's like, this isn't really happening.
01:08:00.000 I don't like it.
01:08:00.000 Yeah.
01:08:01.000 Yeah.
01:08:01.000 Yeah.
01:08:02.000 It's kind of the same way in music, too.
01:08:04.000 Like when they correct everything and make the auto tune, great music has a little bit of mistake in it.
01:08:11.000 Yeah.
01:08:11.000 You know, it has a little bit of like human error.
01:08:16.000 When you're hitting a chord on a guitar, There's a way to play it perfectly, but there's also a way to play it a little messed up.
01:08:24.000 And I kind of prefer the little bit messed up.
01:08:24.000 Right.
01:08:27.000 Like when Hendrix did the Star Spangled Banner at Woodstock.
01:08:30.000 Yeah.
01:08:31.000 You know, there was something about it.
01:08:33.000 Yeah, it was immediate.
01:08:33.000 It was like.
01:08:38.000 It was being done at that moment with full danger.
01:08:42.000 You know?
01:08:42.000 Uh huh.
01:08:43.000 Which is a great thing to listen to.
01:08:46.000 Yeah.
01:08:47.000 It's really happening.
01:08:48.000 Yeah.
01:08:48.000 It's not.
01:08:49.000 Polished and edited and sent through a machine.
01:08:53.000 And you get the feeling that maybe that was the second or third time he'd played it.
01:08:58.000 You know, ever.
01:08:59.000 Well, maybe the first.
01:09:01.000 Which would have been even more insane.
01:09:01.000 Right, right.
01:09:03.000 But, you know, yeah.
01:09:06.000 Well, that's why people like records.
01:09:08.000 They love listening to the scratches and the pops, and then you hear the voice like this just pure recorded voice.
01:09:16.000 There's no auto tune, there's nothing messing with it.
01:09:19.000 Yep.
01:09:20.000 Especially like an old record.
01:09:22.000 I have one of those 78s where you have to crank them up and they have the little cone that amplifies.
01:09:30.000 Oh, you have those, right?
01:09:32.000 Oh, wow.
01:09:33.000 1920 or 1910 or something like that.
01:09:37.000 And I just imagine living on the prairie and ordering this from Sears Roebuck, right?
01:09:43.000 And getting your first record and putting it on and hearing this, a voice coming from this acetate.
01:09:54.000 It must have been magical.
01:09:56.000 It must have been like, you know, transformative.
01:09:59.000 You know, this amplified song that you can dance to or fall in love to right in your living room.
01:10:06.000 When did they first figure that out?
01:10:08.000 I think it was early part of the 20th century.
01:10:11.000 Thomas Edison.
01:10:12.000 Thomas Edison?
01:10:13.000 Yeah, they had like this little cylinder.
01:10:15.000 But when they started mass producing them in.
01:10:17.000 Only just records.
01:10:18.000 Yeah, when was the first record?
01:10:19.000 I think in the 20s.
01:10:20.000 I think they might have mass produced those because people had them.
01:10:24.000 Just a way different player.
01:10:25.000 Let's ask Perplexity.
01:10:27.000 What was the first record?
01:10:30.000 Was the first actual record disc that you could play with a needle?
01:10:36.000 Like a real record.
01:10:42.000 I want to say like 1919.
01:10:46.000 I'm just taking a wild guess.
01:10:48.000 There's a famous viral video of a guy dropping that time I said it.
01:10:51.000 1931.
01:10:53.000 12 inch 33 and a third RPM disc was pressed in Victor's vinyl based Victrolak.
01:10:59.000 But that's 33 and a third.
01:11:02.000 What about the 78s?
01:11:03.000 Or is it called, say, a 78?
01:11:04.000 I think so, yeah.
01:11:07.000 23 minutes beside, verse roughly the shellac.
01:11:09.000 48.
01:11:10.000 Vinyl LP.
01:11:11.000 Arrived in June 21st, 1948.
01:11:14.000 Columbia Records unveiled, oh, 33 and a third micro groove long playing record.
01:11:18.000 So was that it?
01:11:20.000 But in the 20s and 30s, there was a micro groove.
01:11:24.000 47, you got the 45.
01:11:25.000 49, you got the 45.
01:11:27.000 Oh, okay.
01:11:27.000 So the little ones.
01:11:28.000 31 first vinyl disc.
01:11:31.000 Wow.
01:11:32.000 So 31 for the first vinyl disc, 48 for the first real album.
01:11:37.000 Which is really nuts because if you think about like all the amazing albums of the 60s, you're talking about a technology that didn't exist 20 years prior.
01:11:45.000 Oh, that's weird.
01:11:47.000 Yeah.
01:11:47.000 Nuts.
01:11:48.000 Nuts.
01:11:48.000 Yeah.
01:11:49.000 So, like, when you listen to Voodoo Child, like, that technology 20 years ago didn't exist.
01:11:55.000 Do you remember the magic of watching it for the first time?
01:11:58.000 Like, when you put that thing down when you're a kid and you put it on the thing and this music starts coming out?
01:12:05.000 Oh, yeah.
01:12:05.000 Well, I remember the ones where they look at that.
01:12:08.000 Look at the vinyl grooves around.
01:12:09.000 A thousand X magnification, you see the waveforms of the music itself.
01:12:13.000 That's crazy.
01:12:15.000 Incredible.
01:12:16.000 That those little weird things.
01:12:17.000 Imagine if you were like from another civilization and you saw these things.
01:12:21.000 You'd be like, what the fuck is this?
01:12:23.000 Like, what do they have here?
01:12:24.000 How did they figure that out?
01:12:25.000 Yeah, what is this?
01:12:26.000 You'd be like, what?
01:12:27.000 They figured out how to make music out of that, and you could hear a harp.
01:12:27.000 That's.
01:12:32.000 You could hear banjo.
01:12:33.000 You could hear drums.
01:12:34.000 An orchestra.
01:12:35.000 Yeah, you could hear Janis Joplin all in that.
01:12:38.000 Yeah.
01:12:38.000 How'd you do that?
01:12:39.000 Like, what?
01:12:41.000 And if it scratches, it skips?
01:12:44.000 I'm really encouraged that vinyl is making a comeback.
01:12:46.000 I'm really very excited about that.
01:12:48.000 People love it.
01:12:49.000 Yeah.
01:12:50.000 It's all the difference.
01:12:51.000 Like, people love wood tables.
01:12:53.000 You know, people like, as the world gets more digital, people want things that are organic, something that a person made, something that seems like it makes more sense.
01:13:03.000 I've been finding, you know, in my search for my archive and everything, cassette tapes that I put on.
01:13:09.000 They sound amazing.
01:13:10.000 Really?
01:13:11.000 Yeah, they sound really good.
01:13:13.000 Because, you know, there's more.
01:13:16.000 There's more information in a little cassette tape than on a, you know, whether it's MP3 that's been compressed, you know, and compressed and compressed and compressed.
01:13:27.000 But, you know, reel to reels are obviously sound still great, but the cassette tapes really survived.
01:13:33.000 I've been digitizing everything, of course, you know, just to make sure that they don't decay.
01:13:39.000 But it's been really interesting that my dad's music he recorded on cassette tapes.
01:13:46.000 You know, he was a folk singer.
01:13:48.000 They did five albums as the Highwaymen and You know, but he was a classical musician and did choral music, and so he had a group that he would record on these cassette tapes.
01:13:59.000 And so we've been digitizing those because we're, I'm going to put them all on my new website, this thing called Robbins Radio, which will be my dad, my granddad, my brother, and myself, the music that we've done over the years, kind of playing on a constant loop when you come onto the website.
01:14:16.000 Oh, wow.
01:14:17.000 Yeah.
01:14:18.000 So I was to honor my dad.
01:14:20.000 I've been digitizing also his scores, and, um, You know, he wrote music by hand, and so I've got boxes and boxes of that that I've trying to transcribe and make available probably in about six months.
01:14:35.000 We'll have that archive up.
01:14:37.000 Oh, that's awesome.
01:14:38.000 Yeah.
01:14:39.000 Yeah.
01:14:40.000 When did they figure out how to put things on cassette tapes?
01:14:43.000 Because that happened.
01:14:45.000 That was around when I was in high school.
01:14:47.000 I remember I had a cassette deck on my car.
01:14:50.000 Yeah.
01:14:51.000 And there was pretty good technology.
01:14:52.000 You could buy really good microphones and plug them into a pretty good cassette player.
01:14:59.000 Well, A Track was the first, right?
01:15:01.000 I think so, but those were so impractical.
01:15:04.000 Well, they were huge.
01:15:05.000 Yeah, plus they'd stop in the middle of a song and then.
01:15:08.000 Go to the next track and kind of.
01:15:09.000 Oh, really?
01:15:10.000 Yeah.
01:15:11.000 I remember driving with my friend Frank, who lives in Austin right now.
01:15:14.000 And we were driving back up to school, my first school, college, Plattsburgh.
01:15:19.000 And there was an eight track of Bread play.
01:15:22.000 You remember that band Bread?
01:15:23.000 Uh huh.
01:15:24.000 And this was around 1977.
01:15:27.000 And he rips it out of the eight track, rolls down the window, throws it out of this.
01:15:33.000 We're never listening to that again.
01:15:36.000 It's punk rock from this point forward.
01:15:38.000 And it was like a defining moment in my musical life was like Frank saying, No more bread.
01:15:46.000 No more bread.
01:15:47.000 Is he going to put his.
01:15:48.000 It's Sex Pistols now.
01:15:49.000 That's hilarious.
01:15:52.000 I remember my first introduction to A Track.
01:15:54.000 My friend Javier, when I lived in Florida, his mom had an A Track player.
01:15:58.000 And she had.
01:15:59.000 What is that song?
01:16:01.000 Who sings it?
01:16:02.000 When my baby, when my baby smiles at me, I go to Rio de Janeiro.
01:16:07.000 Remember that song?
01:16:08.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:16:08.000 I don't remember who sings it.
01:16:10.000 Pablo Cruz.
01:16:11.000 Oh, yeah.
01:16:12.000 Okay, yeah.
01:16:13.000 And she had a Pablo Cruz eight track in her car.
01:16:16.000 I'm like, this lady's a wizard.
01:16:18.000 She's got her own music.
01:16:20.000 Because before then, I think I'd only seen people play stuff that was on the radio.
01:16:23.000 Right, right.
01:16:24.000 And she put it in there and she pressed the button.
01:16:26.000 I was like, this is crazy.
01:16:29.000 She gets to pick what songs are on the radio in a car.
01:16:33.000 I thought it was the wildest thing I'd ever seen in my life.
01:16:36.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:16:37.000 That was right.
01:16:38.000 It was eight track first, then the cassette.
01:16:40.000 And then the cassette was so much better.
01:16:42.000 And you had to flip it over, though, pop it out.
01:16:42.000 CDs.
01:16:44.000 Yeah, but those things ain't cooked.
01:16:46.000 In the sun, though.
01:16:47.000 Oh, yeah.
01:16:48.000 Oh, I lost a bunch.
01:16:49.000 I used to have one of them big books with cassettes in it, these little vinyl things.
01:16:53.000 You leave it in your car and they get fucked, and then it gets stuck in the tape machine, and you had to do it with your finger.
01:17:00.000 You had to try to wind it back with your finger.
01:17:03.000 Which I did like a month ago with one of the old cassettes.
01:17:06.000 You had to stick your pinky in it.
01:17:08.000 I just did that last month trying to re spool it.
01:17:13.000 Yeah, nobody knows what the fuck we're talking about today.
01:17:16.000 Well, then, you know, VHS tapes was the next one because that was the first time where you could choose to watch a film at home.
01:17:22.000 Yes.
01:17:23.000 You know?
01:17:24.000 Yes.
01:17:25.000 And a huge deal, too.
01:17:26.000 You know, I mourn the loss of video stores.
01:17:31.000 Oh, yeah.
01:17:31.000 Because it's a great experience.
01:17:33.000 Well, yeah, because you could go and you say, you know, I just saw this film, and there was someone that really loved film there.
01:17:38.000 Right.
01:17:39.000 And he could say, well, if you like that one, check this one out.
01:17:42.000 Yeah.
01:17:44.000 That's now been replaced by an algorithm.
01:17:46.000 And I'm not trusting that algorithm is going to find it's, you know, that's going to show me the way to Battle of Algiers or any kind of these great movies.
01:17:46.000 Right.
01:17:55.000 I just, if the personal was lost, same thing with record stores.
01:18:01.000 You could go in and like, what's new and hear what's playing and, you know, talk to the guy and get what his opinion was.
01:18:08.000 And bookstores too, you know, it's like, if you told me 30 years ago that it would be, you know, it's very hard to find a bookstore, record store, or a video store, I would say you're crazy.
01:18:20.000 But now it's all like very convenient.
01:18:22.000 You have access to everything, but you don't have the arbiter that is a person.
01:18:28.000 You have the arbiter that's almost a machine.
01:18:31.000 Right.
01:18:31.000 You get a little bit of that with people online recommending stuff.
01:18:36.000 Which is kind of cool.
01:18:36.000 Yeah.
01:18:37.000 You know, someone says, Hey, I just saw the show.
01:18:39.000 It's fucking incredible.
01:18:40.000 That's true.
01:18:41.000 You get a little bit of that.
01:18:43.000 And then you get IMDb and Rotten Tomatoes scores, which I think does something.
01:18:48.000 You know, they're a little manipulated occasionally, but there's something to it where you get to see what people think about it.
01:18:56.000 Yeah.
01:18:56.000 That helps.
01:18:57.000 That's nice.
01:18:57.000 I think Silo is like 100% Rotten Tomatoes.
01:19:00.000 Is it really?
01:19:01.000 Right now it is.
01:19:01.000 Yeah.
01:19:02.000 Nice.
01:19:02.000 That's.
01:19:03.000 Once you said that, though, you put it out there.
01:19:04.000 I know, now it's dead.
01:19:07.000 I just killed it.
01:19:08.000 They're going to bomb it into a blast.
01:19:12.000 Yeah, 100%.
01:19:13.000 We'll see about that.
01:19:16.000 But there's almost too many shows.
01:19:20.000 I just got into The Agency.
01:19:20.000 There's just too much.
01:19:23.000 I just finished season two of The Agency, Michael Fassbender.
01:19:26.000 It's a CIA series that's on Paramount.
01:19:31.000 It's fucking incredible.
01:19:33.000 It's so well written.
01:19:34.000 It's so well acted that it makes so many other shows seem really clunky because it's just, it's so good.
01:19:40.000 Yeah.
01:19:41.000 It's got so many layers to it and it's subtle and it's brilliant.
01:19:45.000 And it's, and Fastbender's one of my favorite actors.
01:19:47.000 He's fucking incredible.
01:19:48.000 He's so good.
01:19:48.000 He's great.
01:19:49.000 He's so good in this.
01:19:51.000 You know, he plays this CIA spook.
01:19:54.000 So many things to choose from.
01:19:56.000 Too many.
01:19:56.000 Yeah.
01:19:57.000 Almost.
01:19:58.000 Yeah.
01:19:58.000 I mean, essentially, you could waste your whole life just being entertained.
01:20:03.000 Like, it used to be difficult.
01:20:04.000 To be entertained, which I think there's something to that.
01:20:06.000 You had to go to a place, you had to pay, buy your popcorn, sit down.
01:20:10.000 You got to make an active choice in your life.
01:20:12.000 Now it's just like.
01:20:14.000 Yeah, steps along the way, they've made it more convenient to be entertained.
01:20:17.000 But then again, it's like there's something lost in that.
01:20:21.000 You know, like, oh, the movie starts at seven.
01:20:23.000 Come on, we got to get out of here.
01:20:24.000 We got to go park.
01:20:25.000 We got to get there.
01:20:26.000 Got to get there in time.
01:20:26.000 Yeah.
01:20:28.000 There was a lot to it.
01:20:29.000 Or the idea that, you know, if there's only three choices, you're going to stumble, you might stumble into something you wouldn't have watched.
01:20:36.000 And be surprised.
01:20:36.000 Right.
01:20:37.000 Oh, all the time.
01:20:38.000 You'd go, what do they have at the movie theater?
01:20:40.000 Like, what's this?
01:20:41.000 All right, well, there's no more Star Wars tickets left, so we could go see this.
01:20:46.000 You want to see this?
01:20:47.000 What is it?
01:20:48.000 I don't know.
01:20:49.000 This guy's in it, though.
01:20:50.000 Like, okay.
01:20:50.000 I like him.
01:20:51.000 Yeah, let's check it out.
01:20:51.000 And you would just take a guy.
01:20:54.000 That's the crazy thing about Shawshank, it wasn't a big hit in the movie theater initially.
01:20:59.000 No.
01:21:00.000 Which is really hard to believe now.
01:21:02.000 Yeah.
01:21:04.000 No, it was nominated for seven Academy Awards, but nobody went to see it.
01:21:09.000 That's nuts.
01:21:10.000 Yeah.
01:21:11.000 Maybe it was a title they didn't understand, or I don't know what it was.
01:21:14.000 I was in two films that year one, Hudsucker Proxy and Shawshank Redemption, two really challenging titles.
01:21:22.000 But, like, what's it about?
01:21:25.000 Hudsucker?
01:21:26.000 What's it about?
01:21:26.000 I don't know.
01:21:27.000 Shawshank?
01:21:28.000 Who knows?
01:21:29.000 I had people coming up to me and say, I really liked you in that Scrimshaw Reduction.
01:21:34.000 I'm like, yeah, thank you.
01:21:39.000 Especially if they don't plan on meeting you and they run into you at a restaurant.
01:21:42.000 Like, that movie.
01:21:45.000 It's just shrimp straw.
01:21:47.000 Shimshank.
01:21:48.000 Shimshank, Shawshank.
01:21:50.000 What did it come out against?
01:21:52.000 What other films were out at the same time as Shawshank?
01:21:55.000 Was there other big movies?
01:21:57.000 Oh, wow.
01:21:59.000 Oh, wow.
01:22:00.000 Jurassic Park.
01:22:02.000 Pulp Fiction.
01:22:03.000 Oh, Jesus.
01:22:04.000 Ace Ventura.
01:22:05.000 Oh, my God.
01:22:06.000 Ace Ventura, too?
01:22:07.000 That's one of the best years for movies in history.
01:22:09.000 Oh, my God.
01:22:10.000 Yeah.
01:22:11.000 Pulp Fiction.
01:22:12.000 Oh, my God.
01:22:13.000 But.
01:22:13.000 But, you know, it made its way, interestingly enough, because.
01:22:22.000 So Ted Turner was running Warner Brothers at the time, right?
01:22:26.000 And Warner Brothers produced Shawshank Redemption.
01:22:29.000 And when he sold the rights to it for television, he sold it to himself at the lowest cost possible.
01:22:38.000 So basically, you had a film nominated for seven Academy Awards that was getting sold like it was a beach blanket.
01:22:46.000 Bullshit, right?
01:22:49.000 And so it didn't cost him anything to put it on his channel.
01:22:55.000 So he put it on again and again and again, was getting all those advertising dollars that come with playing something on his TV channel.
01:23:04.000 And I think that's why it caught on because it was ubiquitous.
01:23:08.000 It was always there, it was always something you could see.
01:23:12.000 And so eventually people understood what kind of movie it was.
01:23:16.000 Wow.
01:23:17.000 And so that's a good example of where someone's business.
01:23:21.000 Acumen or greed, or whatever you want to call it, winds up producing something quite lovely.
01:23:30.000 You know, something that actually I'm really grateful for because so many people know that film and it's been like number one on IMDb for the last 15 years.
01:23:39.000 Isn't that crazy?
01:23:40.000 Yeah, it's crazy.
01:23:42.000 And that was one of those movies that also took off like wildfire once it got into video.
01:23:48.000 Because once people could watch it at home, that was even though if it didn't do as well in the theaters as it should have.
01:23:55.000 On video, it did fantastic.
01:23:57.000 Yeah, which is why I really, I always remember that when, you know, I'm in a movie and it doesn't quote unquote perform.
01:24:06.000 You know, I'm the turtle.
01:24:11.000 I know the turtle can win the race.
01:24:14.000 Yeah.
01:24:15.000 Yeah.
01:24:16.000 That was something that was lost also during the pandemic.
01:24:19.000 And I was really worried about that, that it wasn't going to come back.
01:24:22.000 It seemed like it was so easy to stream films at home that people just.
01:24:27.000 For a while, it was hard to get people to go out to movie theaters.
01:24:30.000 And the experience is very different.
01:24:30.000 Yeah.
01:24:32.000 Yeah.
01:24:33.000 It's very different.
01:24:34.000 Yeah.
01:24:35.000 It's been a struggle, you know.
01:24:37.000 And, you know, I think also a lot of producers in Hollywood or studios lost faith in their adult audience even before the pandemic.
01:24:48.000 I mean, they were producing movies for teenagers.
01:24:54.000 And, you know, there's nothing wrong with that, but because they can be, that can drive an economic engine.
01:25:00.000 But, At the same time, you know, films like Shawshank Redemption would not get made today because they're about something that isn't about the whole huge multi platform experience of an action movie.
01:25:18.000 And that's unfortunate.
01:25:20.000 And that's kind of migrated into streamers.
01:25:23.000 You know, the people, adults that like to watch stuff, tend to watch these longer form things.
01:25:28.000 And that's a nice thing in a way because it's allowing filmmakers to make 10 hour films.
01:25:36.000 You know, when you think about it, a season of a show is 10 hours.
01:25:41.000 And so you can think in this, like, kind of long form of telling a story, which is a nice thing, which would have been impossible in old Hollywood, you know.
01:25:51.000 Right.
01:25:51.000 You've got to keep it under two hours.
01:25:53.000 So now you have the opportunity, creators have the opportunity to create long form entertainment.
01:26:00.000 Well, that I think is one of the beautiful things about some of these Netflix series is that you, like, things like Stranger Things, you essentially have.
01:26:08.000 You know, a 30 hour movie, or however many episodes it is.
01:26:13.000 And like Ozark is a great example of that.
01:26:15.000 It's like a fucking amazing show.
01:26:17.000 And it's essentially like a movie every week.
01:26:20.000 And the story continues to progress.
01:26:24.000 And you get a chance to really stretch something out.
01:26:27.000 But you get the quality of like a great film, but you get it extended.
01:26:33.000 You know, with these huge budgets, the fact that they're able to do this.
01:26:36.000 So because of streaming, it has opened up this long form aspect of storytelling.
01:26:43.000 That I think is really difficult to do in a movie.
01:26:45.000 Like, Kill Bill kind of did it a little bit.
01:26:47.000 For sure.
01:26:48.000 You have two episodes of it.
01:26:49.000 It was nice also as an actor, like with Silo, I've had three seasons.
01:26:54.000 The first two seasons, my character represented something which completely shifts in season three.
01:27:01.000 Oh, spoiler alert.
01:27:02.000 Don't tell me.
01:27:03.000 No, I'm not telling you what it is.
01:27:04.000 I can't believe you did it.
01:27:05.000 I'm just telling you that.
01:27:06.000 You picked it up for me.
01:27:07.000 I know I'm going to be looking for that.
01:27:11.000 You won't even be able to guess.
01:27:12.000 Okay.
01:27:13.000 Oh, good.
01:27:15.000 It's such a profound, and it was fun to play.
01:27:18.000 It was like this kind of like, and I was told about this at the beginning.
01:27:22.000 The creator said, you know, listen, wait till season two.
01:27:27.000 That's interesting because I always wonder how far they map these things out.
01:27:31.000 You know, did he have a, did they even know that they were going to be picked up for season three when he started?
01:27:37.000 No, but they knew at the end of season one what the trajectory of two and three was.
01:27:44.000 So, if they got picked up, they have to tell you what they would have to tell the studio what two and three are, right?
01:27:52.000 So, um, the other thing that you have to consider is that if you're an asshole, they'll kill you.
01:28:02.000 It's true, right?
01:28:04.000 Writers don't, you know, if an actor is like trouble, right?
01:28:09.000 They'll kill him.
01:28:09.000 Right?
01:28:09.000 Right?
01:28:11.000 They will.
01:28:12.000 I've heard it, I've been told about, uh, you know, one of the guys I worked with was, uh, I won't say his name, but, you know, when I was directing for television, I did a couple episodes on this show, and he told me about a show that he was doing where there were three actors that were giving him a real hard time.
01:28:32.000 And one of them was getting in trouble because of, you know, sexual inappropriateness.
01:28:38.000 One was getting in trouble because of, you know, they were too much in their head.
01:28:42.000 And the other was, you know, something else, you know, something about another.
01:28:47.000 Basically, they shot them all in the anatomy that was associated with.
01:28:51.000 What was their problem?
01:28:52.000 So, all three of them were shot in the finale.
01:28:57.000 Oh, no.
01:28:58.000 They say, Well, we allowed a couple of them to survive, but one we really killed off.
01:29:02.000 It's like, so, you know, you don't mess with the writers.
01:29:06.000 They're in television, they wield a lot of power.
01:29:10.000 Not only that, they're also looking for angles, different places to take the character.
01:29:14.000 And if you're a douchebag, they're like, Let's fucking kill him.
01:29:17.000 Yeah, that'll be a good show.
01:29:18.000 Let's figure out a way to kill this guy off.
01:29:21.000 Let's turn him into a pedophile and then we kill him.
01:29:26.000 Basically, you can do whatever you want.
01:29:29.000 Here's the twist.
01:29:30.000 I didn't see this coming.
01:29:31.000 Yeah.
01:29:33.000 Watch out.
01:29:34.000 Be nice.
01:29:34.000 Yeah.
01:29:35.000 Well, you know, there's a lot of fear in Hollywood when it comes to AI and replacing writers and replacing actors and just replacing this whole human created thing of storytelling.
01:29:49.000 And I think writers in particular are really terrified because you could kind of, you know, with.
01:29:56.000 AI engines today, you could kind of take a few films, right?
01:30:00.000 Like you could kind of take like a bullet and heat and a few, and they say, make me a John Wick meets bullet meets heat.
01:30:10.000 And this is the protagonist.
01:30:13.000 This is what he's facing.
01:30:14.000 These are the issues.
01:30:16.000 And AI can churn it out in a few minutes.
01:30:20.000 And then you could say, make it more like Quentin Tarantino would do it.
01:30:24.000 And then it'll do that.
01:30:25.000 It'll fix it in that way.
01:30:26.000 That's crazy.
01:30:26.000 And you say, okay, I want it more like Kubrick aspects to it.
01:30:30.000 I want some weirdness to it, some.
01:30:32.000 Some real thoughts, some Easter eggs, some hidden aspects to it that people connect later.
01:30:37.000 It'll do that.
01:30:40.000 It can do stuff instantaneously based on, and it's kind of stealing, right?
01:30:45.000 But it's not, right?
01:30:46.000 It's making an original thing, but it's not because it's inspired by everything else that's already been made.
01:30:52.000 But that's kind of what people do, but not in the same way.
01:30:56.000 And we don't do it that quick either.
01:30:58.000 And so for writers, it's fucking terrifying.
01:31:01.000 Yeah.
01:31:01.000 And who do you sue?
01:31:02.000 I mean, you can't sue AI.
01:31:03.000 Well, Artists are having a real problem with that.
01:31:06.000 I have a real problem with it.
01:31:07.000 Yeah.
01:31:08.000 I don't like it at all.
01:31:09.000 But I also have faith in the individuality of the human experience.
01:31:15.000 And what I, like, I'm writing a companion piece to the player right now.
01:31:25.000 And, you know, what would happen if that character was alive today?
01:31:31.000 And so I have my perspective.
01:31:35.000 That only I'm going to bring to that.
01:31:37.000 I don't think you could plug that into it.
01:31:38.000 No, no, no.
01:31:39.000 So I think talented people will figure out a way to be individual and apart from AI.
01:31:47.000 But I also really don't like the lack of protection that the guilds and the unions are offering their membership.
01:31:58.000 You know, there should have been a hard line for the actors' union, and there wasn't.
01:32:05.000 The hard line should have been, you know, You cannot use this to replace actors.
01:32:09.000 Right.
01:32:10.000 Or writers.
01:32:11.000 But there was compromise or writers for the writers' union.
01:32:16.000 I don't think that that protection was held up at the last negotiations, and I think that we're going to see the ramifications of that, unfortunately.
01:32:25.000 Well, that's what's scary is that ultimately economics has a major impact on the decisions that they make, and it's way cheaper to do it that way.
01:32:37.000 It's way cheaper to use AI to write things than.
01:32:41.000 Especially really talented screenwriters, even though it's kind of drawing on the past creative work of really talented screenwriters.
01:32:48.000 They don't get compensated for it.
01:32:50.000 I think ultimately people are going to want and appreciate something that's made by a human being.
01:32:55.000 Because it's one of the things, it's what we really like.
01:32:57.000 Not just be entertained, we really love the fact that someone made something.
01:33:02.000 Well, my girlfriend, Reed Murano, has been advocating for a seal to be put on projects that are made without AI.
01:33:11.000 That's a great idea.
01:33:11.000 Yeah.
01:33:12.000 That is a very good idea.
01:33:13.000 I think that's a great idea.
01:33:14.000 I like that a lot.
01:33:16.000 I think, yeah.
01:33:17.000 Instead of like the parental warning, AI free.
01:33:19.000 Yeah.
01:33:20.000 AI free, right?
01:33:21.000 No GMO foods, bitch.
01:33:21.000 Yeah.
01:33:22.000 Right.
01:33:24.000 There's something to that.
01:33:25.000 I think that's a great idea, actually.
01:33:28.000 I think that might be the solution is a seal.
01:33:31.000 Yeah.
01:33:31.000 I like that a lot.
01:33:33.000 Makes sense.
01:33:35.000 People, you know, when you see a great something that someone made, one of the things that you really like about it is that it came from a human being's creativity.
01:33:45.000 Yeah.
01:33:46.000 Like, did you see Obsession?
01:33:47.000 No.
01:33:48.000 It's fucking great.
01:33:50.000 It's so good.
01:33:51.000 It's so crazy and so creepy and so weird and so brilliant.
01:33:55.000 And, like, no one in it is famous, and it's phenomenal, and it's really original and creepy.
01:34:01.000 And one of the things I loved is, like, this is, what is he, like, 25 or something like that?
01:34:06.000 Yeah.
01:34:06.000 I think he's 25 years old.
01:34:08.000 Yeah.
01:34:09.000 Who, you know, had done a bunch of YouTube stuff.
01:34:11.000 I love it.
01:34:12.000 It's a complete accident.
01:34:13.000 Yeah.
01:34:14.000 Just huge shit.
01:34:15.000 Has this amazing idea, and you've got these people who they're relatively unknown, but really talented.
01:34:21.000 But we're craving that.
01:34:22.000 Yes.
01:34:23.000 Yes.
01:34:23.000 We don't want the formula.
01:34:25.000 We never have wanted the formula.
01:34:25.000 Right.
01:34:27.000 And it's so maddening to try to set a movie up right now in Hollywood because what they want is they want someone, an actor that's worth $20 million, and they'll give you $10 million to do the film.
01:34:40.000 You get the guy that they normally would have to pay $20 million, and you get him to do your film for, you know, $300,000.
01:34:49.000 You got a film.
01:34:52.000 It's no gamblers anymore.
01:34:52.000 Good luck.
01:34:54.000 That's crazy.
01:34:54.000 There's no risk takers.
01:34:55.000 When I was coming up, you know, you had these guys that, like, actually, Joe Roth gave me the money to do Cradle Will Rock, this guy.
01:35:02.000 And he says, it was basically like, here you go, kid.
01:35:06.000 Do it.
01:35:08.000 I'm like, really?
01:35:09.000 I get to do this?
01:35:10.000 Well, you know, I wound up with, you know, final cut and everything.
01:35:14.000 They used to do that.
01:35:15.000 They used to invest in the risk, right?
01:35:19.000 Because only will the risk produce something genuine and new and fresh.
01:35:26.000 If you don't gamble and you're measured and you're on a formula and you got your stars, it's going to.
01:35:34.000 The audience is going to know it.
01:35:35.000 Yep.
01:35:37.000 They know it's, oh, this is pre packaged and pre programmed for my demographic.
01:35:41.000 And I kind of resent it.
01:35:41.000 Yeah.
01:35:42.000 Yeah.
01:35:43.000 You know?
01:35:44.000 Whereas something like that obsession is like coming out of left field.
01:35:49.000 No one is predicting it, programming it.
01:35:53.000 It's just an accident and people love it.
01:35:56.000 Yeah.
01:35:57.000 That's what is exciting about, you know, it's like when you're trying a new material in a club and you're like, I don't know if this is going to work, but.
01:36:07.000 I'm gonna fucking do it.
01:36:08.000 And it gets the laugh.
01:36:10.000 That thrill is what it's all about, right?
01:36:14.000 That's the moment where you go, I gambled and it paid off.
01:36:18.000 Right.
01:36:19.000 That's that.
01:36:19.000 Yeah.
01:36:20.000 I don't know how much we have that experience anymore in Hollywood.
01:36:25.000 Do you think it's just because of the extreme cost that's involved?
01:36:29.000 I mean, just to promote a film, like if you have a film and it's got a budget, like especially, I think it's probably why so many superhero movies get greenlit, right?
01:36:38.000 Because it's one of the only gambles.
01:36:40.000 Like, if you're gambling on an Avengers movie, like, you can't miss.
01:36:44.000 Get the Hulk to smash a bunch of shit.
01:36:46.000 Captain America comes in.
01:36:47.000 You're good.
01:36:48.000 Like, this is, you're good.
01:36:49.000 You're going to make your money back.
01:36:50.000 And so you kind of have to, you know, like, if you're a money person, if you're not a creative person, you're just a money person who happens to be in the movie business, which I'm sure a lot of them are.
01:37:02.000 They're just looking at it as a return on investment.
01:37:04.000 Yeah.
01:37:06.000 But, you know, that's always been that way to some degree.
01:37:10.000 But I don't know.
01:37:12.000 I don't know why it, Became such a risk to try new stuff.
01:37:19.000 I mean, because they're not putting that much money into it.
01:37:21.000 You know, those Marvel movies, they're costing them $250 million, $200 million to produce.
01:37:27.000 Right.
01:37:27.000 There's independent filmmakers that are proven independent filmmakers that are asking for like $5 million, $4 million to do a film.
01:37:35.000 So if they put some advertisement in it, maybe it's going to cost them $14 million all told.
01:37:42.000 And, you know, can they make that back?
01:37:44.000 Is the marketplace going to.
01:37:46.000 Support that.
01:37:47.000 Who knows?
01:37:48.000 I wouldn't want to be an investor, but I also, you know, I have a nostalgia for a time when Robert Altman could make a film, you know, and it could just blow people's minds.
01:38:04.000 And then the next film he made, you know, as he would gleefully tell you, they're going to hate this one, you know.
01:38:10.000 And I love that, you know, and people would either love it or hate it, but he was making his own films, he was making distinctive films.
01:38:21.000 That were him.
01:38:22.000 Yeah.
01:38:23.000 Is it more difficult or easier to get a film released today if you make it yourself?
01:38:32.000 Because you don't have distribution, really.
01:38:34.000 So, you know, I suppose in the future there's going to be some form of distribution that will be more egalitarian, but right now it's a huge risk.
01:38:46.000 How does distribution work?
01:38:47.000 Like, say if you decided you're going to get a bunch of investors together and put together a film, do you have to get distribution before you even.
01:38:54.000 Start producing, yes.
01:38:56.000 You have to have foreign sales in place.
01:38:58.000 Whoa, um, foreign sales, yeah.
01:39:01.000 Like, uh, I think basically the economic model right now is those the investors want to be paid and not be losing money by the time they start shooting.
01:39:14.000 In other words, they're not going to lose money, they've already sold it for more than they've paid, and so there's really no risk, no gamble.
01:39:25.000 Then if the movie catches fire at a film festival, then they'll put the money into advertising it.
01:39:31.000 If it doesn't catch fire at a film festival or with critics, they'll just, you know, okay, I already made my money.
01:39:37.000 You know, we'll just sell it to, you know, DVDs, whatever.
01:39:41.000 God, what a fucking shitty environment to create something.
01:39:43.000 It's hard.
01:39:44.000 It's hard.
01:39:45.000 Yeah, my gal's struggling with that right now.
01:39:47.000 I checked out of that hotel a while back.
01:39:50.000 You know, I was like, I don't want my heart broken like that.
01:39:53.000 So I've just been doing things on my own.
01:39:55.000 I've been producing things on my own, shooting them.
01:39:59.000 Editing them.
01:40:00.000 That's one of the reasons I wanted to do this website, was because I've got all this stuff that is unreleased and just going to start releasing it slowly.
01:40:10.000 Is that more satisfying to do it that way?
01:40:12.000 No, it's more satisfying to go to Cannes and win Best Actor.
01:40:15.000 I mean, much more satisfying when you have a machine behind you that's supporting it.
01:40:22.000 You know, Mystic River.
01:40:22.000 It's great.
01:40:24.000 That kind of like you have Warner Brothers like, we love this film.
01:40:28.000 We're going to.
01:40:29.000 Make sure that people see it.
01:40:30.000 That's what you need.
01:40:31.000 You need your sponsors that get it, that want people to see it, that see the value of it, and they'll put money into advertising.
01:40:39.000 And that's a great experience to be in.
01:40:42.000 The other thing is just pretty lonely.
01:40:45.000 It's just you're trying your best.
01:40:47.000 I was in three movies after I won the Oscar for Mystic River that I've considered three of the best movies in my career, but nobody's seen them.
01:40:56.000 This is Secret Life of Words, Code 46.
01:41:01.000 And catch a fire.
01:41:03.000 And they're all excellent movies.
01:41:05.000 But they came at a time where, you know, the producers or the people that were distributing them didn't really want to risk the money that it would take.
01:41:16.000 See, that's where there's a room for like a Siskel and Ebert type character today that can find those films and say, hey, this one slipped under the radar, but this is really an actual person that's a giant movie buff that can go back and watch these and comment on them and.
01:41:33.000 We don't really back then, Siskel and Ebert were the guys.
01:41:37.000 If they gave you two thumbs down, you were fucked.
01:41:39.000 Yeah, you were fucked.
01:41:40.000 Yeah, and you know, they're very catty with each other.
01:41:43.000 It was like it was a fun thing.
01:41:45.000 It's fun to watch the outtakes.
01:41:47.000 How much those guys actually didn't get along.
01:41:49.000 Yeah.
01:41:50.000 Yep.
01:41:51.000 I was lucky with them.
01:41:52.000 They gave me great reviews.
01:41:54.000 They had good taste.
01:41:54.000 It was good.
01:41:56.000 They did.
01:41:56.000 Yeah.
01:41:57.000 And they loved film.
01:41:58.000 They clearly loved film and they loved all aspects of it.
01:41:58.000 Yes.
01:42:02.000 And they would talk about it with great understanding and great passion, the subtleties of the performances and what really was put together.
01:42:10.000 Even they talk about the score.
01:42:12.000 And they'd spend like 15 minutes on each film.
01:42:12.000 Yeah.
01:42:16.000 Yeah.
01:42:17.000 Which was never happened these days.
01:42:19.000 And it was a hugely successful show, which is like really confusing why there's not something like that today.
01:42:26.000 Yeah.
01:42:26.000 Because there's so much content.
01:42:28.000 Today, if you were like, it's not like what's out in the movies right now.
01:42:32.000 Like today, fucking, there's a million shows that are streaming.
01:42:37.000 There's so much shit going on.
01:42:38.000 There's so much content that if you had a trusted source, you know, a person who's like a real good critic of stuff, Really, not even a critic, an appreciator is a better word.
01:42:50.000 Like someone who's a real passionate enthusiast of film and of different creative works that could just talk about something and recommend stuff.
01:42:59.000 Yeah.
01:43:01.000 But then there's the burnout of that, too.
01:43:03.000 Like, you know, I would talk to some of these guys, and they'd be like, you know, for every one of those good films, we have to see like 10 Drek, you know, and the time spent watching these things kind of mind numbingly painful for some of these people.
01:43:22.000 You know, imagine having to, you know, weed through the muck to get to the gym.
01:43:26.000 I guess, but can't you just walk out of the film?
01:43:29.000 Like, just like you walk out of a movie theater and you're like, this movie sucks.
01:43:32.000 I've done that a few times.
01:43:33.000 Me too.
01:43:33.000 It's a boring, it's a terrible place to be.
01:43:35.000 Me too.
01:43:36.000 You're like, I can't believe I'm leaving.
01:43:37.000 Hard to do in the live theater though, because when they know you're there, that's different.
01:43:42.000 Yeah.
01:43:43.000 But if you're watching it at home, I mean, it's really what you're trying to do.
01:43:46.000 If you want to be one of the persons who says, this is the worst fucking movie I've ever seen in my life, and that's what you're doing.
01:43:52.000 But if you want to be a person who's just an enthusiast of great stuff and just keep it on the positive side, there's so much great stuff to review and so many great things from the past that people haven't seen before that you could sort of turn people on to.
01:44:07.000 Yeah.
01:44:08.000 Yeah.
01:44:08.000 Oh, that would be great.
01:44:09.000 It's kind of weird that there's not someone like that right now.
01:44:11.000 It is weird.
01:44:12.000 It is weird.
01:44:14.000 I think maybe you should do that, produce that.
01:44:17.000 I'm busy.
01:44:19.000 But I mean, it just doesn't even make sense that there's so many different.
01:44:25.000 Like, there's so much content, but yet there's not that one thing that was a really big part of the movie experience when we were younger.
01:44:31.000 Yeah.
01:44:33.000 And the Friday, you know, that idea that there's some exciting movie coming out on Friday and we're going to go to it.
01:44:38.000 Yeah, it was huge.
01:44:40.000 That was huge.
01:44:41.000 A movie was coming out.
01:44:43.000 Like, I guess you have it right now with The Odyssey.
01:44:45.000 Like, a lot of people are, it's like one of those movies that's so big, people are scrambling to go see it in the movie theaters and it's getting people excited about it.
01:44:54.000 Along with a lot of the culture war controversies that everybody that I know that's seen it, I haven't seen it yet, says, Fucking throw all that away.
01:45:00.000 The movie's amazing.
01:45:01.000 That's what I hear.
01:45:02.000 Yeah.
01:45:02.000 Yeah.
01:45:03.000 They just like it's almost like a good way to bait people into getting really, you know, confrontational about.
01:45:10.000 Are you getting tired of that though?
01:45:11.000 Oh, yeah, real tired.
01:45:13.000 Yeah.
01:45:13.000 Like, oh, it's not correct.
01:45:17.000 And it's just, I'm tired of it from both sides.
01:45:17.000 Yeah.
01:45:21.000 I don't want to hear judgment.
01:45:23.000 Right.
01:45:24.000 I just, I don't want to be in the middle of this fight constantly, you know?
01:45:32.000 It's the only, I feel like this is, again, what we were talking about before.
01:45:37.000 You know, it's the, as long as we're fighting with each other.
01:45:40.000 Yeah.
01:45:41.000 And then we're fighting about films that are coming out.
01:45:42.000 I was like, come on, guys, calm down.
01:45:44.000 Calm down.
01:45:45.000 Like, I don't care.
01:45:47.000 It's just, is it entertaining?
01:45:48.000 Is it good?
01:45:49.000 It doesn't have to be correct.
01:45:50.000 It doesn't mean anything to me.
01:45:52.000 There's never been a time in history where correct was important to me.
01:45:55.000 Yeah.
01:45:56.000 Or indicative of great art.
01:45:57.000 Right.
01:45:58.000 It's just make it good.
01:45:59.000 And by all accounts, everyone that I know that's seen the movie said it's fucking incredible.
01:46:03.000 I'm going to try to see it soon.
01:46:03.000 Yeah.
01:46:05.000 But the culture war part of it is like, at the very least, it got people excited to see it and either to hate it or.
01:46:12.000 But I know a lot of people that wanted to go hate it because they were upset.
01:46:16.000 You know, that Elliot Page played this person.
01:46:19.000 I understand that.
01:46:21.000 Helen of Troy is a black lady.
01:46:22.000 Like, who fucking cares?
01:46:24.000 This doesn't matter.
01:46:25.000 Not only that's a made up story.
01:46:29.000 Exactly.
01:46:30.000 It's a myth to begin with.
01:46:32.000 Yeah.
01:46:33.000 It apparently might actually be based on a real place, though.
01:46:37.000 You know, they used to think that Troy was not a real place, and then they discovered it.
01:46:42.000 I think that was, wasn't it the 70s?
01:46:46.000 When did they discover Troy?
01:46:48.000 Because they used to think that it was completely mythical, that it was just fiction, a work of fiction.
01:46:52.000 And then they found the actual real city.
01:46:54.000 And they're like, oh.
01:46:56.000 Like, that's the weird thing about really old stories, it's so ambiguous as to what was the root, what was the origin of this story.
01:47:06.000 Was this a real event and a real person?
01:47:07.000 Have you ever stood on the stage of an old Roman amphitheater?
01:47:11.000 Yes.
01:47:12.000 That's something else.
01:47:13.000 Yeah, it's wild.
01:47:14.000 Yeah.
01:47:14.000 Yeah.
01:47:15.000 There's history in those stones.
01:47:18.000 And, you know, we were doing a show over in Lyon, France in one of those.
01:47:24.000 Theaters and found something out because we were doing rehearsal.
01:47:29.000 And when you're talking to the other actor like this, you can't hear it out there at all.
01:47:34.000 And it's so it told us that what they were doing was this, you know, back in the old days.
01:47:40.000 They had to perform out because you wouldn't be able to hear if you were doing realistically talking to someone making eye contact.
01:47:40.000 Yeah.
01:47:46.000 That's what's weird about early film, is that early film, you have stage actors who are used to doing it with no microphones.
01:47:54.000 Projecting now doing it on film, so it looks odd.
01:47:58.000 Yeah, it's like there was this transitionary period, and then Brando came along and Brando just did it real.
01:48:05.000 Everybody's like, What the fuck is he doing?
01:48:07.000 Yeah, like he's acting like a real person.
01:48:09.000 This is crazy.
01:48:09.000 Yeah, him and Montgomery Cliff, too.
01:48:12.000 Yeah, yeah, that was a huge step forward for all of us.
01:48:18.000 Yeah, that to take the onus off the theatrical and get more into the real, you know.
01:48:24.000 And again, if you really think about it, not a whole lot of time between.
01:48:29.000 Like the invention of film and then movie stars and all these things happening.
01:48:35.000 Like, this is a completely new cultural thing.
01:48:38.000 Like, from the early, like, what was the first film?
01:48:41.000 Like, the first film with sound.
01:48:45.000 What year was that?
01:48:46.000 That was the first 1920s.
01:48:49.000 Wow.
01:48:50.000 So, you have from 27, and then just a few decades later, you have On the Waterfront, you have The Hustler, you have these incredible movies that.
01:48:50.000 So, think of that.
01:49:01.000 They just have to figure out on the fly, you know, how to do this.
01:49:05.000 Citizen Kane, they have to figure out on the fly how to do this.
01:49:10.000 But also, if you ever watch the first films, like the silent films, and the ability to tell a story without words, which was a whole other, you know, talent.
01:49:22.000 I mean, you watch those Chaplin films, that man was insanely talented.
01:49:27.000 Well, Nosferato.
01:49:29.000 The original Nosferato?
01:49:30.000 I love that film.
01:49:31.000 I saw that at a public library in San Francisco when I was a kid.
01:49:34.000 They had a night where they played it, and I went to see it.
01:49:37.000 I was like, this is nuts.
01:49:38.000 Incredible.
01:49:39.000 Incredible.
01:49:40.000 What year was that film?
01:49:42.000 1922.
01:49:43.000 And then Metropolis was the one.
01:49:46.000 Oh, yeah.
01:49:47.000 That's a crazy movie.
01:49:48.000 Yeah.
01:49:49.000 I love that old stuff.
01:49:50.000 Oh, that's great.
01:49:51.000 Those movies are great.
01:49:52.000 And at the time, you got to imagine the experience of going to see that where no one had seen movies before.
01:49:58.000 This is like a new thing.
01:49:59.000 Yeah.
01:49:59.000 Seeing things moving around on a giant screen.
01:50:02.000 Like, this is mad.
01:50:03.000 Alchemy.
01:50:04.000 Yeah.
01:50:05.000 Crazy magic.
01:50:06.000 Satan.
01:50:07.000 And you had to read what they were saying to each other on the screen.
01:50:10.000 Yeah.
01:50:11.000 And then music would play.
01:50:12.000 They had a guy with an organ that was playing music along with it.
01:50:15.000 What?
01:50:16.000 Yeah.
01:50:17.000 It is super cool.
01:50:17.000 Super cool.
01:50:18.000 I would love to.
01:50:19.000 Like, if you could time travel and go to one of those movie theaters back there.
01:50:24.000 There he is.
01:50:24.000 Look at it.
01:50:26.000 I mean, one of the best vampire movies of all time, too.
01:50:30.000 And so, the writing is just so good.
01:50:33.000 German Expressionist.
01:50:36.000 Do you ever see M?
01:50:39.000 Peter Laurie.
01:50:42.000 It's just M?
01:50:43.000 It's called M, yeah.
01:50:44.000 The letter M?
01:50:45.000 Isn't it M?
01:50:46.000 1931.
01:50:47.000 Yeah, 1931.
01:50:48.000 No, I never saw it.
01:50:48.000 It's really good.
01:50:49.000 What is it?
01:50:49.000 What's it about?
01:50:50.000 About a murderer that's stalking a bunch of people.
01:50:55.000 Yeah, I was a huge fan of that whole genre of filmmaking.
01:51:01.000 Well, something's so exciting about it because it, like, when you limit the sensory input, like, you have to read the words and it's all black and white and there's music playing.
01:51:11.000 It's like it's a totally different thing that you're taking in.
01:51:14.000 Yeah.
01:51:14.000 You know, it's like it's almost like half reading, half watching.
01:51:18.000 Yeah.
01:51:19.000 You know, like you're reading a, like, You don't hear their voices.
01:51:22.000 You have to create their voices in your head.
01:51:23.000 Yeah, and you're feeling in a different way, too.
01:51:25.000 Yeah.
01:51:26.000 Because of the, you know, it's black and white, so it's not real, but it is real.
01:51:31.000 So, yeah, it's a great, great form.
01:51:31.000 Right.
01:51:37.000 We should have more of those.
01:51:38.000 Well, it's just hard to imagine that this is only 100 years old.
01:51:41.000 That from there to now, this is 100 years.
01:51:44.000 That's a blink of an eye.
01:51:45.000 Yeah.
01:51:46.000 And when you think about human history, like when we think about like the 1500s versus the 1600s, we kind of think it's Basically, the same.
01:51:53.000 If you're born in 1520 or 1620, it's fucking exactly the same.
01:51:57.000 But if you're born in 1920 or 2020, it's a fucking completely different world you're living in.
01:51:57.000 Right.
01:52:02.000 Huge.
01:52:03.000 1920, you have Nosferatu.
01:52:05.000 2026, you have The Odyssey.
01:52:08.000 You know?
01:52:08.000 Right.
01:52:09.000 You have Dune.
01:52:10.000 You have these insane films.
01:52:12.000 Right.
01:52:12.000 Not to mention the technology you personally possess.
01:52:16.000 Yes.
01:52:16.000 Right.
01:52:17.000 In your pocket.
01:52:18.000 Right.
01:52:18.000 Or at any moment in time, you could stream a movie.
01:52:21.000 I could see Nosferatu right now on here.
01:52:23.000 Yeah, or the Robert Eggers one, the new one, which is fucking fantastic.
01:52:27.000 But it's just instantaneous.
01:52:29.000 Everything's instantaneous and everything's right there for you.
01:52:31.000 So it's great in that sense that you will be entertained.
01:52:35.000 There's something to watch no matter what.
01:52:37.000 But you're missing something on the specialness of having to go out and go to a place, even go to a video store and go get it.
01:52:49.000 There's something missing.
01:52:53.000 I think that that's really at the core of it, though, is the.
01:52:57.000 I've decided this is what I'm going to do today, whole thing.
01:53:02.000 You know, like pre this.
01:53:04.000 Like, I am going to be an active participant in my life.
01:53:09.000 It's when I first moved to LA that I first understood this in the late 70s.
01:53:16.000 LA, as opposed to New York, where I grew up, you have to make a choice to find your fun.
01:53:23.000 New York, it'll drop in your lap, right?
01:53:25.000 If you walk down the street, something will present itself.
01:53:29.000 But in LA, when I first moved out there, I realized.
01:53:32.000 You got to drive there.
01:53:33.000 You got to drive and find your fun.
01:53:35.000 And you have to be an active participant in your cultural life.
01:53:41.000 And once I understood that about LA, I could understand how to live there.
01:53:45.000 It was at first very frustrating because it was very boring, right?
01:53:49.000 It wasn't happening, you know, when I walked out on the street.
01:53:52.000 There was no street to walk out on, it was just too big.
01:53:56.000 But it's that kind of thing I have chosen this weekend to drive 30 minutes in that direction to see this punk rock band, right?
01:54:09.000 And I will be an active participant in that.
01:54:13.000 And once you do that, You're liberated.
01:54:16.000 Then you know anything's possible.
01:54:18.000 But now it's like, I want it in my backyard.
01:54:22.000 Not only that, now that thing interrupts you while you're taking something else in.
01:54:27.000 It constantly wants your attention.
01:54:27.000 Right.
01:54:29.000 It's like a puppy.
01:54:30.000 It's like, you're like, hey, hey, hey, watch the movie.
01:54:33.000 I want to be fed.
01:54:34.000 Yeah.
01:54:35.000 It's constantly demanding your attention or at least enticing you to take a look at it, vibrating in your pocket, you know?
01:54:43.000 Yeah.
01:54:44.000 Have you ever thought about trashing it?
01:54:49.000 I've gotten off social media for weeks at a time.
01:54:52.000 I've done that, but I need it for work too much.
01:54:55.000 I need it for emails.
01:54:57.000 I can't always just be in front of a laptop.
01:54:59.000 Do you have a flip phone?
01:55:02.000 No, no.
01:55:03.000 I'm thinking about getting one.
01:55:05.000 I have a computer that I write on that's not connected to anything.
01:55:09.000 My writing computer is just a Lenovo ThinkPad.
01:55:12.000 I never use it for anything other than writing.
01:55:16.000 If I go online, it's just to research something, like ask a question, like, what is this?
01:55:20.000 How does this work?
01:55:22.000 I never surf the web.
01:55:24.000 I don't look at any websites.
01:55:25.000 I don't do anything with it.
01:55:26.000 And that helps a lot for that.
01:55:28.000 But for phones, I have too many friends that are sending me funny things.
01:55:32.000 There's always some funny thing, and I go, all right, I guess I'm back on Instagram.
01:55:36.000 Like, oh, Jesus, this is crazy.
01:55:36.000 Check it out.
01:55:38.000 There's too much coming at you.
01:55:41.000 And the problem is if I put it down, which I do often for the whole day, when I pick it up, I'll get.
01:55:48.000 70 text messages to go through.
01:55:50.000 I know.
01:55:51.000 And then I don't respond to some, and some people get mad and then, like, I'm sorry.
01:55:55.000 It's like, it's too much.
01:55:57.000 It's too much coming in.
01:55:59.000 And then there's so much, hey, look at this.
01:56:01.000 Hey, check this out.
01:56:03.000 Have you seen this?
01:56:04.000 What do you think about that?
01:56:05.000 You think this is real?
01:56:06.000 You know?
01:56:08.000 And then the people that you don't respond to can oftentimes take the lack of response as basically you saying fuck you.
01:56:17.000 And that's not the case at all.
01:56:18.000 Right.
01:56:19.000 You just don't have the time to do it.
01:56:21.000 Right.
01:56:22.000 And you read it and you liked it and you smiled, but you didn't put a smiley on it.
01:56:26.000 Right.
01:56:26.000 You have to put a little heart.
01:56:27.000 You got to double click it.
01:56:28.000 It's a very strange social dynamic.
01:56:31.000 I'm not sure I'm very good at it.
01:56:35.000 No.
01:56:36.000 It's probably a good sign.
01:56:37.000 Yeah.
01:56:38.000 Yeah.
01:56:38.000 It demands too much.
01:56:39.000 That's the problem.
01:56:41.000 As much as it is interesting, if you have a wide social circle, it demands too much of your time.
01:56:47.000 If you have 100 units of attention that you have for.
01:56:50.000 Use throughout the day.
01:56:51.000 It demands too many units.
01:56:53.000 Right.
01:56:53.000 There's just too much coming at you.
01:56:55.000 Yeah.
01:56:55.000 And it'll take away from other things that you do.
01:56:57.000 And that's a real problem.
01:56:59.000 Yeah.
01:57:01.000 Yeah.
01:57:01.000 I like sitting in my garden.
01:57:03.000 Is that your thing?
01:57:04.000 Yeah.
01:57:05.000 I have a really good.
01:57:07.000 I've been gardening.
01:57:08.000 Yeah.
01:57:09.000 That's, that's the real thing.
01:57:10.000 That's my peaceful place.
01:57:11.000 That's a real thing.
01:57:12.000 It's real.
01:57:12.000 It's dirt.
01:57:13.000 Yeah.
01:57:14.000 Real plant grows out.
01:57:15.000 Life comes from it.
01:57:15.000 Yep.
01:57:16.000 You can eat stuff from it.
01:57:18.000 Yeah.
01:57:18.000 You need stuff to do, right?
01:57:21.000 A thing that can take you away from the other things?
01:57:23.000 Something to make more beautiful every day.
01:57:27.000 Something to, you know, something to care for.
01:57:32.000 It's, you know, whether it's the garden, I have a garden in Los Angeles that, you know, I grow herbs and, you know, to walk down and put those herbs, those fresh herbs in the omelet you're making.
01:57:45.000 You know, it's a small thing, but it's huge.
01:57:48.000 And then I have, back east, I have, I planted a garden with my son this year, you know, like vegetable garden.
01:57:48.000 Yeah.
01:57:55.000 And he's, you know, I haven't been there, but he's been saying the tomatoes are coming.
01:57:59.000 Crazy and the cucumbers, and you know, that's such a beautiful thing.
01:58:02.000 Yeah, there you go.
01:58:03.000 It's this, uh, it's a, I've, I really love this.
01:58:08.000 I love the idea that we can, you know, the earth has so much to offer us.
01:58:13.000 You know, all it needs is water and sunlight, and it'll produce all these beautiful things.
01:58:20.000 Well, there's built in human rewards for growing things, too.
01:58:24.000 There's a human reward system that we have had in our DNA for.
01:58:29.000 Thousands and thousands and thousands of years when you grow things and they produce fruit and they produce vegetables.
01:58:37.000 Like it's exciting.
01:58:38.000 Because you're going to eat.
01:58:38.000 Yeah.
01:58:39.000 You're going to survive.
01:58:39.000 Yeah.
01:58:40.000 Yeah.
01:58:40.000 And then when you're doing your harvest in the fall, you have an abundance, right?
01:58:46.000 And then I learned how to pickle.
01:58:48.000 Ah.
01:58:49.000 And that's a joy because now you're set for the winter, right?
01:58:53.000 Now you've got a refrigerator full of pickled stuff.
01:58:56.000 And, you know, to be able to bite into a Crisp pickle that you grew as a cucumber in the summer in December, it's like, you know, this is how they survived.
01:59:09.000 You know, this is those, you know, the storage of crops and how you make them survive through the winter.
01:59:18.000 It's a skill that, you know, that, well, that's why we're still here.
01:59:24.000 And then you find out that pickling and fermented foods and all these things are fantastic for your body.
01:59:29.000 Incredible.
01:59:29.000 In a way that other foods just aren't.
01:59:31.000 Yeah.
01:59:31.000 And it helps your microbiome and helps your gut.
01:59:34.000 Yeah.
01:59:35.000 And then you can, you know, use the extra pickle juice for a martini.
01:59:39.000 And it's fantastic.
01:59:39.000 Right.
01:59:40.000 Or you can just drink it.
01:59:41.000 Yeah, I do that too.
01:59:42.000 I like pickle juice.
01:59:43.000 I have a company that sells you these little packets of pickle juice and you drink it because it's a probiotic beverage.
01:59:50.000 I have many jars of pickles that are, there's no more pickles in, but I keep the juice for drinking.
01:59:50.000 Yeah.
01:59:58.000 It's, and, you know, fermented foods, and, you know, I've learned, you know, so much about, um, The gut biome and how to make that healthier, and all these challenges we're up against with all the poisons in our food and how to get around them and how to clean yourself out.
02:00:21.000 I just did a cleanse, one of those master cleanses I just did 14 days on, where you don't eat anything for 14 days.
02:00:28.000 It's amazing how great you feel at the end of it.
02:00:32.000 14 whole days, no food at all.
02:00:34.000 No food at all.
02:00:35.000 Wow.
02:00:35.000 What did you drink?
02:00:36.000 Water?
02:00:37.000 It's lemon juice, cayenne pepper, and maple syrup.
02:00:42.000 And that'll get you through the day.
02:00:44.000 But every morning you're doing a purge, right?
02:00:46.000 So you're cleaning out.
02:00:48.000 You're cleaning all the poisons out.
02:00:50.000 I do that a couple times a year.
02:00:52.000 14 days is a long time with no food.
02:00:54.000 It is.
02:00:55.000 What's the first thing you eat when it was over?
02:00:58.000 You got to just ease your way back in.
02:01:00.000 Like clear broth first, then soups, then vegetables, and then get to the meat.
02:01:04.000 Over how long?
02:01:06.000 About a week re entry.
02:01:07.000 Really?
02:01:08.000 Yeah.
02:01:08.000 Whoa.
02:01:09.000 I mean, you're eating, but you're not going for the steak first.
02:01:12.000 Right, right, right.
02:01:14.000 And so you have to kind of ease your system back into it.
02:01:17.000 Do you experience mental clarity when you do that?
02:01:19.000 Total mental clarity.
02:01:21.000 Interesting.
02:01:22.000 I've never done it.
02:01:22.000 Yeah.
02:01:23.000 Most I've done is a day.
02:01:24.000 First three days are tough, but then once you get past the third day, it's pretty.
02:01:32.000 Your energy level is like constant throughout the day.
02:01:37.000 And you can work.
02:01:38.000 I play sports with it.
02:01:40.000 You know, it's around 10 days you should stop doing the physical stuff too much, exertion.
02:01:48.000 I could still take a bike ride and stuff.
02:01:49.000 But you were working out three days of no food.
02:01:52.000 Yeah.
02:01:53.000 Wow.
02:01:56.000 You have to, you know, everyone's going to have their own reaction.
02:01:58.000 So, you know, I'm not advocating even to do it.
02:02:01.000 Right.
02:02:01.000 Because, you know, I don't want to be responsible for that.
02:02:04.000 But for me personally, it's really helped.
02:02:06.000 Because it also restarts your system.
02:02:08.000 It basically, you get rid of the toxins.
02:02:11.000 You're certainly not drinking, you're not doing any kind of abusive shit to yourself.
02:02:18.000 And basically, your body is thanking you by the clarity it gives you.
02:02:22.000 Like, you're really, like, and the other thing that happens is I'll just start cleaning shit.
02:02:28.000 Right.
02:02:29.000 So, you know, when I'm on a cleanse, I'm going to clean a closet.
02:02:33.000 Because you're not only cleaning yourself, you're cleaning your environment around you.
02:02:38.000 And it's, you know, I just did it two weeks ago.
02:02:43.000 So, yeah.
02:02:45.000 How do you decide when to do it?
02:02:48.000 Usually when you've been a little indulgent and you're not feeling too good.
02:02:53.000 And, you know, you put on a little weight and just like, I don't feel good.
02:02:59.000 I want to.
02:02:59.000 You know, clean out.
02:03:00.000 You must lose a ton of weight doing that.
02:03:02.000 Yeah.
02:03:03.000 How much have you lost doing 14 days?
02:03:07.000 25 pounds.
02:03:08.000 Whoa.
02:03:09.000 About two a day.
02:03:10.000 Wow.
02:03:12.000 Yeah.
02:03:13.000 And then, so then your body's running completely on ketones, right?
02:03:16.000 Because your body's running on fat.
02:03:18.000 Yeah.
02:03:19.000 And so your body's burning fat and ketones.
02:03:22.000 When you run on ketogenic diets in the past and then I've been on the carnivore diet, which does the exact same thing, where your mental clarity is just so much better.
02:03:32.000 Yeah.
02:03:32.000 Like everything just runs smooth.
02:03:34.000 It's just like you're, like you were saying, you have this level, flat energy throughout the day.
02:03:39.000 There's no highs and lows, like crashing after a big meal.
02:03:43.000 Or caffeine pump bumps, or yeah, all that stuff.
02:03:46.000 Yeah.
02:03:47.000 Yeah, but staying up till, you know, midnight and fine.
02:03:52.000 The energy's fine.
02:03:55.000 And you'll sleep less too.
02:03:56.000 You need less sleep for some reason.
02:03:58.000 I don't know why.
02:03:59.000 Also, I think it's probably good to give your digestive system a little break too.
02:04:03.000 Yeah.
02:04:04.000 Let it relax.
02:04:05.000 I mean, it's constantly work, especially if you eat all throughout the day.
02:04:09.000 If you're a snacker and then you have late at night, you have a little bite to eat, you wake up in the morning, you have breakfast.
02:04:14.000 Like your digestive system is just constantly grinding out this food and digesting everything.
02:04:19.000 Yeah.
02:04:21.000 Yeah.
02:04:22.000 The real poison for me is sugar.
02:04:25.000 You know, it manifested in alcohol for a while, but I don't drink that much anymore.
02:04:30.000 But sugar is the big.
02:04:34.000 Yeah.
02:04:34.000 For everybody.
02:04:35.000 It's a tough one.
02:04:36.000 It's a very addictive.
02:04:37.000 And.
02:04:38.000 And, you know, you think, oh, it feels great when you first have it, but then it makes you pay.
02:04:44.000 Well, it's also with modern diets.
02:04:48.000 Like the kind of sugar that we have available today really never existed in the past before.
02:04:53.000 That's true.
02:04:53.000 You know, for most of human history, if you wanted something sweet, you had to eat fruit.
02:04:57.000 You know, and now all of a sudden you've got candy bars.
02:04:57.000 Right.
02:05:01.000 You have stuff that comes to you in this insane form where you have 100 grams of sugar and something that you can eat.
02:05:08.000 Like that's nuts.
02:05:08.000 Right.
02:05:09.000 You know, or a drink.
02:05:09.000 Yeah.
02:05:10.000 You know, you get one of those.
02:05:12.000 Baskin Robbins Blizzard?
02:05:12.000 What is it?
02:05:13.000 Is that the one that has that?
02:05:14.000 Oh, my God.
02:05:15.000 That thing?
02:05:15.000 Those things will mess you up.
02:05:17.000 Oh, you get a headache after you're done.
02:05:19.000 I know.
02:05:20.000 It's like alcohol.
02:05:21.000 Yeah.
02:05:21.000 What's that expression?
02:05:24.000 Candy's dandy, but liquor's quicker.
02:05:25.000 Yeah.
02:05:26.000 It's just, you know, liquor's just concentrated sugar.
02:05:26.000 Yeah.
02:05:31.000 It's just like, you know.
02:05:33.000 But, you know, I try not to be too much of a zealot about any of this stuff.
02:05:42.000 But I have, like, my mom was introducing us to natural food in the late 60s.
02:05:50.000 So she had read a book called Poisons on Our Food and started.
02:05:55.000 Taking processed food out of our diet and oh wow, white bread this early on like 1967.
02:06:01.000 Yeah, so she she was a real uh, you know.
02:06:05.000 Um, she really was a homeopath before it was called a homeopath and uh wound up getting cancer and uh was told she had to have chemo and said no, i'm not doing it, and kicked it herself, you know, with uh changing what she was putting in her body, and so i've always, you know uh, had Had her as a kind of guidepost for my health.
02:06:32.000 She used to always say the body is a temple and that the body can heal anything.
02:06:40.000 And a lot of it has to do with how you approach it in your mind.
02:06:44.000 And if you believe that you can heal yourself, you can heal yourself.
02:06:48.000 Is she getting this from books?
02:06:50.000 I think she got it from a combination of books and her faith in Catholicism.
02:07:00.000 I think every religion has a fasting day for some reason.
02:07:06.000 That seems to be something that is common to all religions, that it's important that you not eat one day a week.
02:07:15.000 She wouldn't do that with us as kids.
02:07:17.000 She wouldn't starve us for a day.
02:07:19.000 But she did have a holistic approach to the way that she viewed illness.
02:07:26.000 And I remember her drumming it into our heads that if you ever.
02:07:32.000 Get told by a doctor anything, you have to challenge it.
02:07:35.000 You go to a different doctor and see if they say the same thing.
02:07:38.000 Always, always, always.
02:07:40.000 She lost her father and her brother within the course of a year to medical malpractice in the 50s.
02:07:48.000 And so she had a serious distrust of the medical profession.
02:07:52.000 And back then, it was like no one even thought about suing for malpractice.
02:07:58.000 It was like, that's the doctor.
02:07:59.000 He's an authority figure.
02:08:00.000 You can't mess with him, right?
02:08:02.000 So she always approached it with a healthy level of questioning whenever she was given advice by doctors.
02:08:13.000 Wow.
02:08:14.000 And it's interesting.
02:08:17.000 She's always been, I've always kind of wondered how she would have reacted to this recent thing and all that.
02:08:28.000 But have you ever done ayahuasca?
02:08:32.000 No.
02:08:32.000 Yeah.
02:08:34.000 I've done DMT, which is the actual compound that's active in ayahuasca.
02:08:40.000 Ayahuasca is an orally active version of DMT.
02:08:44.000 Yeah.
02:08:44.000 Yeah.
02:08:45.000 I was, you know, when they tell you to go in, when I did it, they tell you to go in with an intention.
02:08:52.000 And my intention was to, you know, I was frustrated with feeling anger about what was going on in the world.
02:09:00.000 And I said, I want to release that.
02:09:02.000 I don't want to be consumed by that anger.
02:09:06.000 And so I wound up in this, you know, that heavy duty, you know, journey that ayahuasca is.
02:09:17.000 And my mom showed up.
02:09:19.000 Wow.
02:09:20.000 Yeah.
02:09:21.000 And she's, it's not like you actually hear a voice, but you hear a voice, right?
02:09:27.000 You basically, she's there, you know it's her, she's saying something to you.
02:09:33.000 And what she said was, You're injured.
02:09:38.000 You're a warrior and you're injured and you need to rest, but the fight's not over.
02:09:47.000 That was what she, that's what she, Told me in response to my intention.
02:09:55.000 Whoa.
02:09:55.000 What were you battling?
02:10:00.000 I was battling my frustration with the dissolution of society, people being angry at each other over ridiculous things, long friendships being affected, people being canceled for expressing their opinion, all this stuff.
02:10:22.000 And I.
02:10:23.000 I wanted out.
02:10:25.000 I wanted to be absolved of that.
02:10:27.000 I didn't want to be engaged in it.
02:10:30.000 What she told me in the course of this thing, believe it or not, I understand people will be, oh, that's woo-woo and you're just tripping and whatever.
02:10:39.000 But I definitely felt her presence there.
02:10:42.000 It was no doubt.
02:10:43.000 I went through a whole journey with her.
02:10:45.000 I saw things from our lives together.
02:10:49.000 There was one moment where I was always been curious about something that happened in kindergarten or something I don't remember.
02:10:59.000 And she, you know, at one point I felt her presence and she said, you were right about that.
02:11:06.000 I'm sorry we didn't listen to you, you know, and this kind of really profoundly deep experience.
02:11:13.000 And, but at the end of it, I felt completely lighter and completely, you know, relieved to have been through the experience and a great, great connection with my mom.
02:11:28.000 Just like a beautiful, like, ah, she gets it.
02:11:32.000 She's still around.
02:11:34.000 I've had quite a few experiences in this realm.
02:11:39.000 My mom, in fact, my father died when he was 80 and my mom was 78 and she wasn't sick, but my dad had been dying for a while and we all got down to say goodbye to him.
02:11:55.000 They were living in Mexico at the time.
02:11:58.000 And we went to the funeral, and my mom was very stoic and sang very strongly my father's favorite song at the funeral.
02:12:05.000 And she didn't cry, and we were all concerned about her.
02:12:08.000 And we hired a couple people for when we left to take care of her.
02:12:13.000 And she was really agitated the last night.
02:12:16.000 And I was there, and she said, You know, I don't trust these people.
02:12:20.000 I don't know if they're going to talk about you or, you know, and you're famous and all that stuff.
02:12:24.000 And I said, Mom, don't worry about it.
02:12:26.000 You know, they're just here to get you stuff if you need it.
02:12:28.000 Don't worry about it.
02:12:30.000 I go off.
02:12:31.000 She wakes up the next morning.
02:12:33.000 She says to my sisters who are still in the house with her, Everything I said last night, don't worry about it.
02:12:40.000 And they said, What happened, Mom?
02:12:42.000 I had a dream.
02:12:44.000 She said, I was in my childhood home in Westwood, California.
02:12:48.000 And there was something in my living room, and I couldn't look at it.
02:12:51.000 It was this stone figure.
02:12:52.000 I couldn't look at it.
02:12:53.000 It was disturbing me.
02:12:54.000 I didn't want to look at it.
02:12:56.000 But then I look out the bay window, and then coming down the street, I see, led by my first friend in life, a group of people coming towards the house.
02:13:06.000 And it didn't make any sense.
02:13:07.000 There were people from my childhood, people from my choral society, people from my work, but they were all there and they all came to the door.
02:13:15.000 And when they showed up, I realized everything was going to be fine.
02:13:18.000 And I realized, oh my God, that was the departed that had come to say it's going to be okay.
02:13:23.000 Wow.
02:13:25.000 And so my sister's left.
02:13:31.000 Three days, four days later, we got a phone call.
02:13:33.000 My mom has died.
02:13:35.000 She wasn't sick.
02:13:37.000 And then my sister talks to the woman that was taking care of her.
02:13:42.000 And she said it was really strange.
02:13:45.000 You know, the night before she died, she said, he's here.
02:13:50.000 And they said, who's here?
02:13:51.000 And she said, Gil, my husband, he's here.
02:13:53.000 He's come to get me.
02:13:56.000 And they said, no, Mary, he's not there.
02:13:59.000 And she said, oh, no, he most certainly is.
02:14:01.000 And he looks very strong because he died feeble.
02:14:06.000 Goes to bed that night and passes.
02:14:08.000 Whoa.
02:14:10.000 So even the most cynical person in the world that doesn't believe in afterlife or anything, how do you explain that?
02:14:18.000 How do you explain whatever chemicals were going on in her brain to bring her to that passing where she was going to join the person that she loved?
02:14:25.000 For her entire life.
02:14:28.000 That's a beautiful thing, regardless of how you look at it.
02:14:31.000 I don't think there's any value in being cynical about these experiences.
02:14:35.000 And even the ayahuasca experience, like this idea that you're hallucinating and that that's what this is, doesn't matter.
02:14:45.000 It's the same experience.
02:14:46.000 If you really did make contact with your mother in the afterlife and you really did have this communication versus whatever the fuck hallucination means, I don't know what you mean by that.
02:14:58.000 It's the same experience.
02:15:00.000 Yeah.
02:15:00.000 So, like, there's no value in being cynical about it.
02:15:03.000 Like, you get a, you get, there's something that you experience from it that's tangible.
02:15:11.000 It's real.
02:15:11.000 You feel it.
02:15:12.000 It changes your perspective.
02:15:14.000 It changes the way you feel about the world.
02:15:16.000 Like, that's a real thing.
02:15:16.000 Yeah.
02:15:18.000 Just because you can't put a measuring tape to it or you can't put it on a scale, don't say it's not real.
02:15:18.000 That's a real thing.
02:15:24.000 There's so many ways of being that we haven't even studied or have no idea about.
02:15:30.000 How people can communicate over 2,000 miles.
02:15:33.000 Like a mother wakes up in the middle of the night knowing something's wrong with their child, and five minutes later the fucking phone rings.
02:15:39.000 What the hell is that?
02:15:41.000 Or twins.
02:15:42.000 Twins who have some very strange connection with each other.
02:15:45.000 When I was, my grandfather, who I was very close to, had been dead for two months, and I had a dream about him.
02:15:55.000 And I woke up like startled, and I heard his voice.
02:15:59.000 And he said basically, Don't worry, I'll take care of it.
02:16:03.000 And I didn't know what the hell it meant, but it was very clear.
02:16:06.000 It was like, I'll take care of it.
02:16:10.000 15 minutes later, I get a phone call from Susan, and my son, Miles, who was six years old at the time, had run out into the middle of 7th Avenue, and she said it was the weirdest thing.
02:16:24.000 It was like something stopped him, like that, and a car goes behind him and a car goes in front of him.
02:16:31.000 And I was like, I know exactly what just happened.
02:16:36.000 He was, whatever that is, whatever energy he could muster in whatever phase of being he was, he fucking saved my son's life.
02:16:48.000 Heroically.
02:16:50.000 I'm no doubt about that.
02:16:52.000 Why would he show up and say that to me?
02:16:54.000 He said, don't worry, I'll take care of it.
02:16:56.000 Wow.
02:16:57.000 So I totally believe this stuff.
02:17:01.000 I believe that life, death, there's other planes of existence.
02:17:07.000 That we can get to through various means.
02:17:11.000 It doesn't have to be ayahuasca.
02:17:12.000 It doesn't, there are, if you're open to listening in different ways, there are great things available for you.
02:17:24.000 It's like the idea of an accident.
02:17:25.000 Is it an accident that you run into that person that you've been wanting to talk to and all of a sudden now they're right in front of you?
02:17:32.000 You know, that's not an accident.
02:17:32.000 Right.
02:17:33.000 It's divine, whatever, you know, whatever the divine is for you.
02:17:40.000 There's another level of energy that is going around.
02:17:44.000 You know, we haven't even studied how the heart communicates.
02:17:50.000 You know, there's that Spanish or Portuguese cardiologist that talks about the realm of communication in the electromagnetic field of the heart and what that means and how the heart can communicate and has parts of the heart have more neurons in parts of the brain.
02:18:10.000 And like, what is that all about?
02:18:12.000 And it's such that we don't think that way.
02:18:15.000 You know, we don't.
02:18:16.000 Want to experience, we have a heart, it's a meat pump, and that's it just runs in your entire life.
02:18:24.000 Yeah.
02:18:25.000 But it doesn't, this guy's suggesting, no, it's electromagnetic energy.
02:18:29.000 It's what makes us live longer if we're with someone else or with a pet.
02:18:33.000 You know, that people that are isolated and alone are hurting and they're not having that electromagnetic connection with other people.
02:18:42.000 That's why we crave crowds.
02:18:44.000 It's why we want to be in, you know, groups of people.
02:18:47.000 It's a natural thing, it keeps us alive.
02:18:49.000 It keeps us.
02:18:51.000 Activated in a community.
02:18:54.000 But we don't study that.
02:18:55.000 We don't study what that is.
02:18:57.000 And I think it's kind of magical.
02:18:59.000 That's why solitary confinement is such a cruel punishment.
02:19:01.000 It's so cool.
02:19:02.000 I mean, there's a lot of people that think it's actual torture.
02:19:02.000 Yeah.
02:19:02.000 Yeah.
02:19:06.000 Yeah.
02:19:06.000 Of course it is.
02:19:07.000 Of course it is.
02:19:08.000 You've got nothing to interact with.
02:19:13.000 And it's why that lockdown was cruel.
02:19:19.000 The scope of that loneliness is just immense.
02:19:24.000 Some people had to deal with.
02:19:25.000 Especially people that were already struggling.
02:19:28.000 Some people were already filled with anxiety and they already had suffered from depression.
02:19:32.000 They were already weird socially.
02:19:33.000 Then all of a sudden they're just completely isolated from everyone else for a year or a year and a half, depending on where you lived.
02:19:41.000 It's weird this desire that people have to define things as real or not real and also to let everyone know, oh, I'm not falling for that nonsense.
02:19:52.000 But God, I mean, at one point in time, do you have to say, well, all these stories, all these experiences that people have, Maybe there's something to it, and maybe this closed mindedness is not benefiting me in any way.
02:20:04.000 Yeah, I mean, there's magic.
02:20:07.000 There's magic in the world.
02:20:09.000 I mean, there's this old way of thinking.
02:20:13.000 I became.
02:20:13.000 Do you know what the.
02:20:17.000 There's a book called The Nature of Things by a guy named Lucretius, written in 350 BC, and it's Epicureanism.
02:20:25.000 And Epicureanism now is about you know, you like food, you like wine, whatever.
02:20:29.000 Back then, it was like.
02:20:30.000 The whole purpose of this philosophy or religion, whatever you want to call it, was that all of life is a miracle.
02:20:40.000 Everything that you're seeing in front of you is the first time it's happening and will never happen again.
02:20:46.000 It's a collision of atoms in a particular way.
02:20:49.000 They don't call them atoms, but they call them the smallest particles that create unique experiences every moment of your life.
02:20:57.000 And the whole purpose of life is to seek the pleasure of that.
02:21:02.000 And avoid pain.
02:21:04.000 And the pain can be either living isolated or without the idea of magic or indulging in something where it creates pain.
02:21:14.000 Too much pleasure creates pain.
02:21:17.000 But this philosophy in this beautiful long form poem written by Lucretius in 350 BC is all about magic.
02:21:25.000 It's all about this idea that look how lucky we are to wake up in the morning and see that freaking cactus blooming.
02:21:34.000 You know, That's like when we get so inured from that, so, you know, anesthetized from the magic, and it's all just a doldrum, every day is the same.
02:21:49.000 That's robbing yourself of so much, right?
02:21:52.000 That the idea that what if you just woke up and said, Hey, it's fucking magic.
02:21:57.000 This is amazing.
02:21:59.000 First of all, I'm breathing.
02:22:00.000 Second of all, look at that sun coming in the window.
02:22:04.000 And this is going to be an amazing day.
02:22:08.000 Instead of like, ah, shit, I got to get up and, you know, do my fucking thing, you know?
02:22:13.000 Like, no.
02:22:15.000 It's also relative because if you were dying in a hospital and you had this opportunity, say, okay, all you have to do is say these magic words and you'll be transported back to health in your home with a completely new perspective and a completely new appreciation for just being healthy and alive.
02:22:35.000 Yeah.
02:22:37.000 It's just hard for people to shift that perspective and think like that all the time.
02:22:41.000 But if you could force yourself just as an exercise to say, I am so lucky to be above ground.
02:22:46.000 I am so lucky to be healthy and mobile if I am, and I could just go do what I want to do and live my life and go say hi to people I love.
02:22:57.000 Yeah.
02:22:57.000 Appreciate it.
02:22:58.000 And the idea that you can also, even if things are bad, that if you approach life that way, then there is a possibility of making everything better.
02:23:07.000 And it has to do with humility, it has to do with being able to say, I can forgive somebody for something.
02:23:15.000 I can also ask forgiveness for something I've done.
02:23:20.000 It's all about humility.
02:23:21.000 It's all about humility in the face of not only your own personal experience, but in how you view the universe.
02:23:30.000 Either I'm lucky to be here, or what a blessing to be able to have this life I've had.
02:23:40.000 I want to give.
02:23:43.000 I had this beautiful experience.
02:23:46.000 When I was going through my, you know, one of my darkest periods, this woman showed up and I met her once in my life, this Tibetan woman.
02:23:57.000 She's a great singer.
02:23:58.000 And she, I said, Why are you here?
02:24:03.000 She said, You're in trouble.
02:24:05.000 I'm going to take care of you.
02:24:06.000 And I didn't even know her.
02:24:07.000 And I said, All right, okay.
02:24:10.000 And so she did this Reiki healing on me.
02:24:14.000 She sang, she wrote incense.
02:24:17.000 And I didn't understand it.
02:24:18.000 I didn't understand why she was there.
02:24:21.000 She makes me a meal that evening, first evening.
02:24:24.000 She's done all this healing on me.
02:24:26.000 And she says, you know, she makes the meal I'm eating.
02:24:30.000 I finish eating.
02:24:31.000 I start taking the dishes, right?
02:24:34.000 She says, what are you doing?
02:24:36.000 I said, well, you cooked all clean.
02:24:39.000 She says, sit down.
02:24:41.000 That's the problem with you people in the West.
02:24:43.000 It's all a business deal.
02:24:46.000 I'm doing this for you.
02:24:47.000 Can you just accept that?
02:24:49.000 I'm taking care of you.
02:24:50.000 Can you accept that?
02:24:52.000 And she said, you will never know how to give love until you know how to receive love.
02:24:57.000 And it blew my mind.
02:25:00.000 Because at the time I realized I was engaged in that kind of transactional way of looking at relationships.
02:25:10.000 That the idea that giving completely is so much better, you actually get more out of it than you do receiving it.
02:25:23.000 And once I understood that, it kind of transformed everything for me.
02:25:28.000 And that was the person that was a total stranger and she showed up just out of nowhere.
02:25:33.000 And I said, finally, at the end of it, I said, why are you here?
02:25:37.000 And she said, you have done good things for the world.
02:25:42.000 We need you.
02:25:44.000 And she left.
02:25:49.000 And, you know, so I didn't plan that.
02:25:55.000 I had no idea that was going to happen.
02:25:58.000 But it made me realize there are angels in this world.
02:26:04.000 They are manifested as human beings, but there are certain kinds of people that are there for you if you are open for it.
02:26:14.000 If you are closed off and cynical, you will not see your angels.
02:26:18.000 But if you are maybe sometimes just completely wiped and you have no, you know, you're just ready to receive it.
02:26:28.000 And maybe the fact that I was able to receive that, I think, really helped me and helped me shift everything.
02:26:37.000 It's always a struggle, of course.
02:26:39.000 That lesson doesn't mean that I'm that way forever.
02:26:42.000 But it's a reminder.
02:26:42.000 Right.
02:26:44.000 It's that there is another energy in the world that is actually an energy of good.
02:26:53.000 We are consumed by the bad all the time.
02:26:57.000 Right.
02:26:57.000 There's all these negative forces that are trying to bring us down.
02:27:02.000 And I think that sometimes we get so defeated by those things that we are not open to.
02:27:09.000 The energy of the angels, the good.
02:27:12.000 And when I say angels, I don't mean.
02:27:14.000 I know what you mean.
02:27:15.000 Yeah.
02:27:16.000 Super positive people, like something, some pure expression of love and compassion and generosity.
02:27:24.000 Yeah.
02:27:24.000 Yeah.
02:27:25.000 And this is the real problem with social media and algorithms in particular is that it really highlights the things that make you upset.
02:27:34.000 It does.
02:27:35.000 Yeah.
02:27:36.000 And that kind of energy is like, really, is that affecting your everyday life?
02:27:41.000 Well, it is if you dive into the negativity.
02:27:44.000 All day long, and you're engrossed in social media and getting upset about things rather than experiencing the life that's actually in front of you and doing it from a positive perspective and not concentrating on all these external things that could be making you angry or making you frustrated or filling you with anxiety.
02:28:04.000 You're actually poisoning yourself with that.
02:28:07.000 Yeah, you are.
02:28:09.000 And it's a constant battle because that damn thing's buzzing all the time.
02:28:13.000 But I have gotten better with it.
02:28:16.000 I will not look at it first thing in the morning anymore.
02:28:18.000 Well, it's much like we were talking about film and records being a new thing.
02:28:22.000 This is a really new thing.
02:28:24.000 And this is very invasive.
02:28:25.000 It's a very new thing and very invasive.
02:28:28.000 And it's going to take a while for people to figure out the right way and the wrong way to use it.
02:28:33.000 And what are the ramifications and the consequences of using it incorrectly?
02:28:38.000 Because no one's teaching that.
02:28:41.000 They're not teaching children that in school.
02:28:42.000 There should be a course on this is the negative aspect of social media.
02:28:47.000 These are the negative aspects of interaction.
02:28:49.000 This is what it's doing to your consciousness.
02:28:51.000 This is what it's doing to your consciousness.
02:28:54.000 To your focus.
02:28:56.000 It's stealing your joy.
02:28:58.000 Your appreciation of the moment.
02:29:01.000 Right.
02:29:01.000 And it's leading you into conflict constantly.
02:29:04.000 Constantly.
02:29:05.000 And, you know, that's a negative thing.
02:29:09.000 That's a force of evil.
02:29:12.000 Strong word, but, you know.
02:29:12.000 Yeah.
02:29:13.000 It's the right word, though.
02:29:15.000 You know, it's again, there's these words good, evil, angel, God.
02:29:18.000 They fuck with people because they're like, oh, what is that?
02:29:22.000 It's, I think, got to kind of abandon that way of thinking and just go, well, there's certainly positive and negative.
02:29:29.000 There's certainly love and evil.
02:29:32.000 Those are real things.
02:29:33.000 And there's good.
02:29:34.000 There's good in the world.
02:29:35.000 And also, the more you concentrate on other things, the more your life is defined by those other things, whether it's good or bad.
02:29:43.000 So, if you're constantly thinking about bad things, like, well, you can't have a very loving and amazing life if you're constantly inundated with thoughts about negative things.
02:29:52.000 And on the other side of it, if you're thinking in a positive way and enjoying love and friendship and community and just doing stuff that you actually find value in, well, this has got to give you.
02:30:03.000 Better energy and light, and also the way you interact with other people will be different, so you'll affect the way they feel, and that'll have that butterfly effect out into the rest of the people they come in contact with.
02:30:14.000 Not to mention, it's really good for your health, yes.
02:30:17.000 Well, you like you were saying before, one of the worst things for your health is loneliness, yeah, yeah, it'll kill you.
02:30:24.000 Tim Robbins, you're a cool, thank you, man.
02:30:26.000 I enjoy talking to you, I appreciate it.
02:30:28.000 Great, thank you very much, thanks for having me.
02:30:30.000 My pleasure.