00:00:33.000I mean, you know, I don't know what happened, but all the people that were with him during the time we're talking about, for people just listening now, talking about Travis Walton, who was a man who in the 1970s was a logger in Arizona, and he was allegedly,
00:00:48.000or according to him, abducted by aliens.
00:00:52.000And the people that he was with saw him get hit by a beam of light.
00:03:25.000Because I must take this opportunity now to say that I am speaking on your podcast as a private individual and I don't represent my university talking about this, okay?
00:03:36.000So, I mean, seriously, look what happened to him.
00:03:39.000So he basically, you know, was honest and said, yeah, I think that these are, you know, demons.
00:03:45.000Well, You know, that was the headline, Joe.
00:03:48.000But when you actually listen to what he had to say, it was more complicated.
00:03:52.000And so I thought that he did a good job of talking about it with you.
00:03:58.000And if you want, we can talk about that, why he would think that.
00:04:39.000So he's coming from the perspective of Catholic theology.
00:04:42.000So in Catholic theology, there are generally, if you're looking at anomalous phenomena, which they do, supernatural anomalous phenomena, a lot of weird stuff happens within the history of religions.
00:05:51.000And this has been a category that Catholics have had since at least the medieval time period.0.81
00:05:56.000And because they're trying to figure out, you know, if, let's just talk about UFOs.
00:06:00.000If UFOs are here now, most likely they've been around for a long time.
00:06:04.000And so whatever Catholics were seeing in the medieval time period, they had categories for trying to understand it, just like we're trying to have too.
00:06:13.000And so they say, The theologians at the time said, like Aquinas, Thomas Aquinas, he said, okay, the preternatural, these are events that happen and they're either angelic, like, you know, good things like that, or demonic,
00:06:29.000which are fallen angels, or other things, because God has created other things other than, you know, he's created the unseen and the seen, some things that we can't see.
00:06:39.000So in the preternatural, there happens to be experiences that people have with things that seem to be similar.
00:06:48.000To what people talk about when they're talking about being abducted by UFOs, beings that appear and disappear, beings that can seemingly read your mind.
00:07:00.000So, this would be the theological category that Catholics have called the preternatural.
00:07:04.000And I think that's what JD Vance was trying to get at.
00:07:22.000So there are analogous experiences that people have.
00:07:27.000Now that I've been doing this since 2012, a long time, it is beyond a doubt that there's a pattern match between people who have these experiences and people who have demonic experiences.
00:07:40.000That's an analogy, but that doesn't prove that they're identical.
00:07:44.000When you say pattern match, what do you mean?
00:07:45.000Yeah, so I'm talking about what people actually experience.
00:07:48.000So when people have these experiences, what happens to them?
00:08:32.000But it warrants an investigation, I think, into the similarities.
00:08:38.000Okay, but when you think about demons, most people think about evil.
00:08:43.000They think about something that does horrible things to you, possession, you know, something that causes you to murder people, or something that wants to murder you, or something that wants to steal your soul.
00:08:55.000That doesn't seem at all like what we're talking about with these UFO experiences.
00:09:01.000What it seems like is you're encountering something that has a superior intelligence, of superior technology, something that's very different that communicates telepathically, but they don't seem to have vicious intentions.
00:09:16.000So I don't understand the distinction.
00:09:19.000I don't understand why you would call that a demon unless you're just using that in this old school term because the people that were experiencing this supposedly.
00:09:30.000Or, assumedly, when we're talking about ancient times and they didn't have words for it and they didn't know what they were experiencing, they would call that a demon.
00:11:05.000I think it's called the hitchhiker syndrome or something.
00:11:07.000And so I met a lot of people who had this happen to them who had had UFO experiences.
00:11:13.000So I would say that no, not all UFO experiences are like that, but enough of them are like that for me not to ever have one.
00:11:23.000And also to associate the preternatural, that's what I started to understand that, well, the preternatural is still the best category that we have for looking at this, because not all preternatural phenomena, even for Catholics, is negative.
00:11:38.000Some of this is actually really positive.
00:12:20.000So listen, when we start to look at this thing, Type of situation with, you know, these experiences and so forth.
00:12:26.000What a Catholic would do, like what a Catholic priest would do, would be to identify if there's deceit happening, to identify if there are negative effects, and, you know,
00:12:39.000because there's criteria for looking at the preternatural.
00:12:43.000And so a lot of things that happen are when you have, you know, these abductions,
00:12:52.000which some people view as positive, but some people don't.
00:13:30.000That means when you have one or two prophetic messages given to you by an anomalous being or whatnot, and it comes true, you're willing maybe to believe it, right?
00:13:42.000Oh, this is telling me good information.
00:15:26.000Visions in their dreams could also just be dreams.
00:15:30.000Like, how can they just make a distinction between just dreams, like, oh, Godzilla was chasing me, I was on a skateboard, I ran into my cousin, we hid in his basement.
00:15:42.000And if they're having those dreams as well as these visionary dreams that they think are inspired by some entity, how are they making the distinction between the two of them if both of them exist at the same time in the same person's mind?
00:21:37.000So my point is that if it is, if it, whatever it is, I, you're right.
00:21:43.000I've been studying it and I can say that if those are the aliens, no, I don't want to meet them.
00:21:49.000If the, if they're the ones that like people have come and told me about and said, I wish this never happened to me, you know, then no, I don't want to meet the same person.
00:22:50.000And there have been reports of people, there is an Australian report of pilots who have passed away because of this type of thing, like they died and so forth.
00:24:04.000Despite extensive searches, and no trace of him was ever recovered.
00:24:08.000Radar had detected another object in the area, but never interacted with other flights.
00:24:12.000To this day, no one knows if Valentin crashed, got lost, or encountered something far more mysterious.
00:24:19.000Even decades later, this remains one of aviation's most baffling disappearances, and the last words of a terrified pilot still haunt those who hear them.
00:24:38.000Having a good time in another dimension, hanging out with these creatures, and they're explaining to him the future of the universe.
00:24:44.000But you know, that the thing about what I do is I have a lot of information that people impart to me that I can't actually talk about, right?
00:25:43.000They fuck with Jamie's cold water.0.99
00:25:47.0007 06 p.m. Valentin contacted the Melbourne air traffic controller Steve Roby, reporting an unidentified aircraft trailing him at about 4,500 feet.0.99
00:25:55.000Over the next several minutes, he described a long, shiny, metallic object with a green light.
00:26:00.000The craft appeared to be orbiting above him, it was moving at high speed and playing some sort of game.
00:26:06.000His engine became rough idling and coughing.
00:26:09.000His final words that strange aircraft is hovering on top of me again.
00:26:13.000It's hovering and it's not an aircraft.
00:26:16.000The transmission ended with 17 seconds of metallic scraping or keying sounds, then silence.
00:28:39.000And some people interact with it and have, like, it breaks into their reality.
00:28:43.000And for those people, he thinks that they're unlucky because all the things that happened to them, like men in black show up.0.86
00:28:52.000He thinks things like the beginning of all religions is basically about someone who had an interface with a para being, like one of these para humans.
00:30:10.000If there's one that appears to be good, it's actually bad.
00:30:14.000So, again, he started, you know, he was kind of like a Charles Fort type guy.
00:30:18.000So, he started to get a lot of these, you know, these events and he studied them and everything like that.0.66
00:30:25.000And over years, he developed a theory that these were nasty things and that they were like, even if they appeared good and that they were at the beginning of all religions, all religions come from the super spectrum.
00:30:39.000Obviously, not that part about how it's like Catholicism, but you know, religions tend to have theological categories that talk about things like the super spectrum.
00:30:48.000So, what Jacques talks about in his books sounds very similar to his control mechanism and is very similar to John Keel's idea.
00:30:59.000What seems like just speculating, but it seems like we're dealing with a very limited framework that we operate in.
00:31:14.000That we operate in this world of the senses that we possess sight, sound, feel, touch, all that smell.
00:31:23.000We have these senses for understanding what's around us, but only those.
00:31:28.000And it's not capable of detecting everything that is reality, everything that is the universe, everything that is from subatomic particles to whatever the fuck it is that we haven't even discovered yet.
00:31:48.000The potential for other realms or other dimensions, and these things exist in some sort of a space where they can interact and traverse in between these dimensions and interact with us at will whenever we can.
00:32:04.000We're kind of left in this speculation space where when people have these very novel and unique experiences, like Travis Walton, and then we're supposed to go, okay, did that happen?
00:32:19.000It didn't happen to me, but is he telling the truth?
00:34:22.000He showed us that most recent documentary before it was released with Luigi, the guy who made it with him.1.00
00:34:30.000I don't, you know, I know a lot of people that are full shit.1.00
00:34:34.000I meet a lot of people that are full shit.1.00
00:34:35.000I've had people sit here in front of me, and then somewhere in the conversation, I'm like, oh, this person's not being honest.1.00
00:34:41.000This is, this is some, they've got an agenda, they're pushing some, or they're pretending they know some things because it sounds good, but they don't really know some things.
00:34:55.000He's obviously incredibly intelligent and very well studied when it comes to science, when it comes to whatever it is, whether it's elements, particles.
00:35:11.000He understands what he's talking about in a very deep way.
00:35:15.000When he's explaining these experiences, when he talks about this craft and his experiences at S4, he seems to be telling the truth.
00:35:24.000Since then, we know, first of all, that No one knew about S4 back then, but he did.
00:36:09.000There's a lot of weirdness to the Bob Lazar story.
00:36:13.000And then when you see some of the footage that was released, particularly after the New York Times story of 2017, the footage that's released mirrors the way he describes this craft operating.
00:36:54.000I mean, You're always going to have people when you have a fantastic story like Bob Lazar's story, you're always going to have people that want to say that the guy's full of shit, that there's something wrong.0.99
00:37:28.000But if Bob Lazar is telling the truth, it's so disturbing the idea that there's a group of humans that operate in our government that have information that the general public does not have.
00:37:41.000And that they're the gatekeepers of this information, and they've determined for whatever reason that either it's not wise to tell people or it wouldn't benefit them to tell people.
00:37:52.000Like, whatever it is, I think it's a crime against humanity.
00:37:56.000I think if you're a person that knows for a fact that there's something here other than us that either visits us or exists amongst us or travels here from another dimension, I think you have an obligation to tell people.
00:38:13.000What if it's actually something we've created and we don't want anybody to know about it, and Lazar happened to find out, and that's why we don't want.
00:38:22.000You know, I mean, think about it from the perspective of people who are trying to keep Americans safe.
00:38:57.000That's not what you do if you have super advanced technology.
00:39:01.000What you do is you bring in people to improve it and make it better.
00:39:05.000You don't bring in people and say, How does it work?
00:39:08.000Yeah, okay, wait, I have a couple of comments about that.
00:39:12.000Okay, so when I first started, I was aware that people I wasn't aware as much as I should be.
00:39:21.000But I was aware that people in my position, you know, who are basically just doing like academic work on the UFO belief, the rising UFO belief, might have people come and give me disinformation.
00:39:48.000the person who took me out to, The desert, right, with Gary during that time to an alleged crash site, which, you know, Jacques then goes out there.
00:39:59.000He basically also wants Gary to figure out this debris.
00:40:07.000And so I'm thinking, we obviously don't know what we have here.
00:40:12.000If he's at, if it's so legit, it could, okay, so here are my comments about what you just told me about Lazar.
00:40:19.000Either they're setting up, This situation where they're going to have someone like me and Gary who are like, they're trying to back engineer this, right?
00:40:27.000And we're saying that publicly without any kind of like knowledge that it could be disinfo.
00:40:34.000And then they have Lazar who we're going to plant.
00:40:36.000And they do this like with Benevitz and stuff.
00:41:00.000You should read this because this is a disinfo scam on this poor guy who.
00:41:05.000So, Benevitz believed that he had intercepted communications from alien spacecraft and discovered a secret underground facility called Dulce Base.
00:41:27.000According to some sources, Benevitz was the target of a government disinformation campaign that ultimately led to his psychiatric hospitalization.
00:41:36.000Author Greg Valdez proposes that Benevitz was targeted for his investigation of cattle mutilations.
00:41:42.000Valdez argues the mutilations were a government testing program looking at the after effects of radiation from 1967's Project Gas Buggy, in which an underground atomic device was detonated just 21 miles southwest of Dulce.
00:41:58.000They were testing the cattle to avoid panicking the public.
00:43:49.000So, and I, and by the way, all of these people are people who work on the program ATIP and so forth to study UFOs.
00:43:59.000But my point though here in talking about this was what if Lazar was a person like me and Gary who was being given information, were credible, right?
00:44:11.000He's not so credible, but like, you know, he's this person that's been given information and placed out there so that, and he's just on the edge of credibility.
00:44:22.000Just so, you know, he's credible, but then he's not credible so that he could be taken down if necessary.
00:44:27.000That's how they get this information out there.
00:44:42.000I try to stay out of their crosshairs, frankly.
00:44:45.000What they're doing, though, is that every time somebody comes out and says, you know, here are the new UFO files, I'm studying them and so forth, then they get taken out.
00:45:55.000Like today, like Jacques at one point.
00:45:59.000Many years ago, he decided that the field of ufology was so confusing that he wanted to go back before the Industrial Revolution and do UFOs from a long time ago.
00:46:12.000And he wrote Wonders in the Sky, all about that, stopped at like, I think it was like 1860 or something like that.
00:46:27.000So I saw, you know, so in a sense, I understand that move because.
00:46:31.000When you say you weren't looking for UFOs, what were you looking for?
00:46:33.000Oh, well, the first part of my academic career was about looking at souls from purgatory and Catholic things, like what Catholics thought about things that they experienced, like angel contact events.
00:46:48.000And that's when I started to take a log of these aerial phenomena.
00:49:25.000It's a very similar pattern, which is also strange because if you think about human beings, the exponential increase in technological ability that we have just from the 1800s to today,
00:51:15.000And so, what if AI all of a sudden is a different form of contact?
00:51:20.000And I'll give you a reason why I think this way or that I'm speculating about it.
00:51:25.000When I started to ask the people who should know, like Lou Elizondo, and before that, Tyler, and you know, How put off, and people like that.
00:51:37.000Tell me what best, if you were to describe what it is we're dealing with, what best is the description?
00:51:45.000And they would always point me in the direction of science fiction.
00:51:47.000And they would say, read this, read that.
00:51:49.000And I was like, science fiction, okay.
00:57:43.000And if they don't have amnesty, they're never going to disclose.
00:57:50.000This is like Lou Elizondo talked about, or all these different people talked about this.
00:57:53.000They're like the only way you're ever going to get this information is by giving some sort of mass amnesty to all these people that are involved in these programs.
00:58:04.000So that they'd never have to worry about being prosecuted.
00:58:07.000My problem with that is when I hear something like that, and you're talking about misappropriation of funds, you're talking about lying to Congress, you're talking about enormous amounts of money that are involved in these programs, where did that money go?
00:58:18.000And did that money all go to those programs or all those really ethical people involved?
00:58:23.000Or did a bunch of people get rich bullshitting about this stuff?
00:58:27.000And is that why they're calling for amnesty so that they don't have to worry about being prosecuted for stealing money?
00:58:36.000You know, obfuscating all this confusion, a lot of this misinformation is because there's a lot of people that are in deep shit if this gets disclosed.0.95
00:58:48.000So basically, they're in deep shit if the thing that gets disclosed is that they've been stealing money.0.97
00:58:56.000Well, listen, if you have complete total autonomy, you get an enormous amount of money and you're working on these programs, you know, no one knows where this money's going.
00:59:09.000And we have a problem with that already.
00:59:56.000But what that doesn't - it doesn't exonerate them from lying to Congress or misappropriating funds.
01:00:01.000That's part of the problem is that if they have these programs that are hidden, And there's no congressional oversight.
01:00:12.000There's no, they don't have to be audited.
01:00:15.000If in all these, in any government program that has no oversight, you're going to have waste and you're probably going to have fraud.
01:00:26.000And you're probably going to have a bunch of people that are essentially beyond reproach.
01:00:30.000They have so much power and no oversight at all.
01:00:34.000Like, put a little bit over here, put a little bit over there, a little bit of this, a little bit of that.
01:00:41.000Next thing you know, these people are wealthy for some reason that you can't explain.
01:00:44.000Like, look what's going on with Congress, with insider trading, where people that are making $170,000 a year are worth hundreds of millions of dollars, and no one can explain why.
01:01:47.000And human beings, if they have that level of power and that level of secrecy and no oversight at all, and also they're working with defense contractors, they're working, like, you know.
01:03:18.000During the same event, former Air Force intelligence officer Grush renewed his allegations that the secret UAP programs had operated outside normal congressional oversight, calling it a real fraud, waste, and abuse issue.
01:03:31.000And claiming his investigation uncovered slush funds to the tune of billions of dollars per annum.
01:03:38.000The Pentagon has disputed Grush's central claims, and Arrow has said its investigations found no evidence, no verified evidence of extraterrestrial technology or credible evidence that the government has secretly recovered or reverse engineered craft of non human origin.
01:04:18.000It could indicate that they are doing something, but they're also profiting wildly off of this something that they're doing because they don't have any oversight, which is when you get creepy people that have incredible power like that.
01:04:33.000Absolute power corrupts absolutely.0.98
01:04:36.000What's more absolute power than you have massive amounts of money, a blank check, and You're also in the fucking super secret, top secret group.0.95
01:04:48.000You're in the club of the people that know the wink and the nod, and you're going into these fucking vaults in the middle of the mountain.0.98
01:04:54.000And you're looking at an alien spacecraft and you've got bodies that are in formaldehyde or whatever the fuck they're doing with them.0.99
01:05:00.000You know, you would think those guys could do whatever the fuck they want.0.99
01:05:35.000I'm just saying, if you had to look at it from the least charitable perspective, you have to say that's probably an aspect of what we're dealing with.
01:05:42.000And that seemed to me, when I watched Age of Disclosure from a cynical perspective, I'm like, what is this request for amnesty?
01:06:02.000You're worried about, like, are they really going to prosecute people that have misappropriated funds and lied to Congress because they have alien spacecrafts?
01:06:10.000Is that really what Congress is going to do now?
01:06:12.000They're going to go after these people and say, look, I know you finally did tell us that we have been visited and that we have these downed alien crafts, but we're going to put you in jail because you didn't tell us before and because you lied to Congress and you used these funds to back engineer these crafts.
01:06:46.000It's not like these are the most benign, altruistic people that they're super charitable and they only want to do the right thing for humanity.
01:06:55.000And they're very comfortable with their meager government salary.
01:07:45.000Which is important for people to know that maybe if they've never heard this subject before and this is the first podcast they've listened to, when we're talking about Gary Nolan and some of the things they found at these crash sites, we're talking about alloys that you can't make here.
01:08:44.000And so, if I were to speculate about it, and let me just describe some of the things that come into my brain every once in a while when I'm thinking about it, I'm like, okay.
01:08:53.000You know how Eric Weinstein talks about, like, he would know the smart people, he would know the physicists who would be on this case, right?
01:09:02.000He would know these guys because he knows physics.
01:09:10.000And part of the reason I say that is because this is in 2014 or so, so a long time ago.
01:09:17.000When I'm, you know, when you're doing something for so long and you're in this community of people, And you can't make stuff up.
01:09:26.000Like, stuff happens, you're like, that really happened.
01:09:29.000And one of the things that happened was that I got to see that there were some, you know, laboratories associated with the government that people couldn't get into.
01:09:38.000You know, it was like you couldn't go to those.
01:09:40.000And the people that worked there were the best of the best, like the laser people, the people who knew lasers and who, you know, they were better than anybody at Yale.
01:09:51.000They were better than anybody at Harvard or Stanford or anything like that.
01:11:08.000Like, seriously, how do you know that?
01:11:10.000Because the government is really good at hiding these kinds of things.
01:11:13.000So, over the years, that was a long time ago when this happened to me, 2014, I started to form an idea, you know, and it wasn't just that, it was other types of things that I learned that there's something going on for sure.
01:11:27.000And it is what they're saying, but maybe it's not, I don't know what they're reverse engineering, if it's anomalous.
01:11:35.000You know, from another planet or what it is.
01:11:40.000I do know that they're doing something and they've been doing it and they're probably going to continue to do it and that I don't think they're going to share.
01:11:52.000Especially if it affects national defense.
01:11:55.000And so, yeah, and so part of what's happening now, you know, with rich people getting into this and trying to get the people in the program to come out, because that's what that looks like when David Grush talks about that.
01:12:07.000I'm thinking they're just trying to get these people in the program to come out so they can get the technology, right?
01:12:14.000And I don't think that's going to happen.
01:12:20.000Do you think that they find very talented physicists that are in universities and they have these outreach programs where they look for these people that are very talented and they recruit them very early on?
01:12:42.000Get them as early as possible before they get into the program.
01:12:45.000Before they get involved in any sort of commercial venture or any other company.
01:12:51.000So, in my second book that I've written about it called Encounters, there's a chapter called The Children of the Invisibles where I talk about this potential speculative group, and it's total speculation.
01:13:08.000Have you heard Eric Weinstein's take on there's a particular upstate university, upstate New York University, that has a completely overqualified physics department that's also attached to a hedge fund that does Bernie Madoff type numbers that don't make any sense at all?
01:13:28.000Yeah, he talks about it in this one particular university.
01:13:33.000He is keen on this, it might be something because it doesn't make any sense that these insanely talented physicists are all in this one place and no real research comes out of it.
01:13:48.000But yet, they're also attached to this hedge fund that does these insane numbers that don't make any sense at all, which is a great way to just funnel money through and keep these programs running that are completely top secret.
01:15:16.000So, if you have this university where you have these people that are teaching these classes, like, and they're probably looking for super talented physicists that are coming up to recruit into these programs.
01:15:29.000But what they're doing, as far as their, you know, air quotes, research that's public is nonsense.
01:15:36.000And what they're really doing is working on something, probably some sort of very novel propulsion system.
01:16:15.000Why would we try to get them to come out and, you know, and like force them out?
01:16:19.000Well, we certainly don't want that information to get to China or Russia.
01:16:23.000Or Russia, if there is some sort of a race to develop a novel propulsion system, like who was it, Jamie, that was in here that was saying that one of the uses for this technology would be instantaneous delivery systems of nuclear weapons?
01:16:39.000So, you know, when we're talking about these propulsion systems that essentially they're folding space, folding space and time, where they can, instead of going from point A to point B, which is like, you know,
01:16:54.000a thousand light years, instead of doing it in However, much time it would take to travel that through, even if you're going the speed of light, you go instantaneously because you're essentially folding space and time and just appearing in this new place.
01:17:42.000But it's also, isn't it their responsibility to do that?
01:17:47.000Because if China figures out how to do that, or Russia figures out how to do that, or Iran figures out how to do that, you've got a real problem.
01:17:55.000So this was what, remember you asked me those people that I met, like after American Cosmic is published.
01:18:01.000So this is pretty much the line they gave me was that.
01:18:04.000Diana, it's best to talk about this stuff about morality and, you know, Christian stuff and so forth because, look, what we're doing is we're keeping us safe in the United States.
01:18:17.000And do you really want a non ally to have, you know, an enemy to have this technology?
01:18:24.000I'm like, well, no, of course not, you know?
01:18:53.000And I get that that's why, if, say, the Roswell crash of 1947, if that is legit and if they really did fly it out to Wright Air Force Base in two separate planes just in case one of them crashed,
01:19:29.000You have fiber optics, transistors, and weird shit that's attached to them in terms of the provenance of how these technologies were evolved and developed.
01:19:38.000There's some sketchy shit involved in that.0.96
01:19:41.000And the allegation is that this is something that's been reverse engineered.0.98
01:19:47.000And then, okay, well, you don't want that getting to someone else, right?
01:19:52.000If we are involved in conflicts with other nations, and we most certainly are, why would you keep that stuff secret?
01:20:02.000And if so, if extraterrestrial technology is real and that we do have crafts, and saying extraterrestrial is just a placeholder word for whatever it is, intradimensional, whatever it is, some super advanced, non human intelligence created technology,
01:20:18.000if it does exist, yeah, I would say from a national security perspective, yeah, you've got to keep that under wraps, especially if we don't truly understand it.
01:20:27.000If we don't truly understand it, we're not really capable of making it.
01:20:45.000But that's the thing is, that we know of, there's only so far you can go with that line of thinking.
01:20:56.000When you go back far enough, it doesn't work.
01:21:00.000So, like, you go back to 1947, 1947, you're dealing with propeller planes.
01:21:07.000Okay, propeller planes and then also novel propulsion systems that can instantaneously travel from one place to another.
01:21:15.000You know, they can go like what happened with the tic tac, where they have it on radar going from 50,000 feet down to sea level in less than a second.
01:21:28.000So that's technology that we had in 2004.
01:24:02.000The idea that our best shit is propeller planes, but yet we also have these things with no visible means of propulsion that are all flying at a thousand miles an hour or whatever it was, several thousand miles an hour.0.98
01:24:20.000If you go back far enough, it doesn't make sense that there's superior technology that's not being utilized ubiquitously across the entire military.
01:24:31.000Well, I think that most likely if they have something that they want.
01:24:34.000Okay, so this is, again, speculation, all right?
01:24:51.000I would say in 2026, 80 years later, with all the technological advancement, maybe there's some crazy shit that they have today, and I bet there is.0.98
01:26:50.000But that doesn't take out a lot of weirdness about it because he also had a lot of very strange, anomalous experiences men in black experiences, paranormal experiences.
01:27:21.000Is there any actual documented photographs of the HO 229?
01:27:27.000That's why I'm going to go with if there were only three of them and they weren't ours.
01:27:32.000So we know that jets existed in 1941, and so the Nazis had really advanced technology in terms of automobiles, in terms of engineering, rocketry.
01:27:43.000They were way more advanced than us, which is why we.0.83
01:27:46.000Took all those Nazi scientists from Operation Paperclip and ignored their war crimes so that they could work for NASA.0.63
01:27:54.000They had an important weapon too that we never talk about that we also took a form of propaganda.0.82
01:28:04.000They had propaganda, a specific form, not the kind that you can Google and see Nazi propaganda and stuff like that.
01:28:09.000Like a really effective form of propaganda.
01:29:57.000Like that, the speed that that thing moved, every human being inside of it, if there was a person flying in that, they would have got turned into jello.
01:30:25.000And that is exactly what it looked like, including those weird things at the bottom.
01:30:30.000Those weird things at the bottom, whatever that stuff, those little, whatever those little tube looking things at the bottom of it, that is part of what they described when they said they saw the tic tac.
01:31:13.000And that defies your imagination, just runs wild.
01:31:18.000So that's my point is that, you know, if this is happening and this has been happening, it's like it's well, this is something that's kept well guarded.
01:31:30.000And even I don't think, even with the disclosure today, I don't think that push is going to be effective.
01:31:57.000But what is Perplexity getting this information from?
01:32:00.000So it says, what the story claims a document circulating on social media since August of 2025 purports to be a leaked Lockheed Martin CIA flight manual for a craft called the CL957 Gen 2, nicknamed Tic Tac.
01:32:14.000Per the claims, Instagram skunkworks post.
01:32:22.000Jason Wilde on X, Reddit forensic breakdown took Canna, YouTube analysis, no providence, nothing in the Freedom of Information Act archives, the CIA Crest database, Black Vault or National Archive references,
01:32:36.000CL 957 or Orbit Lance, Real Black Programs, Oxcart, Have Blue, Tactic Blue, all eventually left paper trails, wrong designation scheme, Lockheed CL,
01:32:50.000California temporary design numbers are documented, CL 282, CL 1200, Lancer, etc., and CL 957 doesn't appear in any credible listing.
01:33:02.000Document artifacts, analyst flag typography, formatting, and classification marking inconsistencies versus real technical orders, plus anachronistic F 22 references and an odd CIA series aircraft phrasing.
01:35:33.000So later on, I would listen to Hal and Hal would give these talks, Hal put off.
01:35:38.000By the way, who's one of the people that is interested in UFOs and knows a lot about them?
01:35:44.000And so he gave this talk at the inaugural Soul Conference, and I was there.
01:35:50.000And so I was listening to him, and to me, it sounded like what he was saying was exactly what Tyler was saying.
01:35:55.000That he was saying, We have this, you know, but we don't actually know how to do this, how to back engineer this.
01:36:02.000So we're going to give it to this talented group of people, and we're going to tell them that this was already made, but a non ally, like an enemy, had it.
01:36:11.000So basically, by telling them this, they would then, like, in a sense, do kind of like a trick on their minds, and they would actually.
01:36:22.000They would reverse engineer something that he said already existed.
01:36:25.000So, in a sense, it was like not only working with time in a weird way, or like kind of like, you know, projecting what was going to be in the future, telling them it already had been done.
01:36:35.000So, that made me think this is like the propaganda that I'm talking about and that you just started to talk about.
01:36:40.000Like, if we could then on a mass scale tell people that we have something or this is the case, maybe there would be a critical like mental construct and people would actually.
01:36:54.000Do something, a rise to the occasion, or something like that.
01:36:57.000That could have been propaganda for the space race, right?
01:37:02.000That could have been like the moon landing stuff.
01:37:04.000Like, you know, I'm not saying that didn't happen, by the way.
01:37:07.000I'm saying that, you know, part of it was a way to get Americans to win the space race.
01:37:13.000We had to already believe that we won it, right?
01:37:16.000In order to create this stuff, we already have to believe that someone else created it.
01:38:06.000Why, you know, they didn't say anything about why, but I started to think maybe this is like a Hal put off thing, or maybe this is like a Tyler thing that I'm doing this for them so that their brains can think this has already been done.
01:38:21.000So, when you say the sophisticated propaganda that the Nazis have, that we took this technology from them, like what do you mean by that?0.56
01:38:33.000So I don't know exactly, but I do have some ideas.
01:38:37.000And two of the ideas I have are what I just told you that if you can seed the population with images and belief, you know, that will impact their belief, you can change it.
01:39:36.000You see this, by the way, with Arthur C. Clarke in his book, in his short story, Childhood's End, or no, it's a book, where he's talking about aliens, where these aliens are engineering humanity through technology,
01:39:49.000through social media and things like that.0.63
01:39:53.000So this could be what the Nazi propaganda, the weapon is.
01:39:59.000It could be used as a weapon, but it could also be used for good.0.74
01:40:02.000And it could be used to facilitate technological innovation by telling them that it's already been done.
01:40:43.000Well, it's very important, your mindset, especially when it comes to athletics, because there's so much that's involved in competition that's psychological.
01:41:33.000It makes sense that it would, that the blocks that people have in their mind about what is and what is not possible, that if you say, not only is it possible, it's already been done.
01:41:44.000Like, when we start to talk about, like, the various things that we've been talking about, like, you know, if this is, Real and that happened and so forth.
01:41:51.000Maybe that's what they're trying to get us not to talk about the really interesting things like maybe that, you know, that form of what could be a form of mind control.
01:42:02.000I understand that, but when it comes to technology that could have military applications and that we've had all these military conflicts, you would imagine that you would see some of this stuff being utilized, and there's no real evidence that there has been.
01:42:16.000Like, there's no evidence from Iraq or Afghanistan from any of those conflicts that we had.
01:42:22.000Something that moves fast in the speed of light, and that we have weapons that are indescribable until Nicaragua, or Venezuela, rather.
01:43:02.000Hal Putoff had that crazy story about when he was working for the Bush administration where they brought him in with a bunch of other scientists.
01:43:10.000Yeah, and they said, We are going to disclose that there are alien crafts and that we have biological remains of creatures from some other place.
01:43:19.000What is the negative and what are the positive impacts of this?
01:43:23.000This and I want you to put a numerical value on each one of them and tell us what the result is.
01:43:29.000And all the people that they brought in all had similar conclusions when they said, How's it going to impact government?
01:44:04.000You're going to have to have an economy.
01:44:05.000You're going to have to have government.
01:44:06.000You're going to have to have all these things while also knowing we're not alone.
01:44:10.000And maybe that would help dissolve some of the conflicts that we have.
01:44:14.000Because if we think that we're the only gang in town and then there's another gang over there and we're duking it out with them, if we find out, well, actually, there's a gang from another planet, that's the Reagan speech in the United Nations that all the UFO dorks went, oh.
01:44:30.000He's telling us something that if we were faced with a threat from another world, how quickly we would put aside our differences.
01:44:50.000The problem is the collapse of the economy, global trust in government.
01:44:55.000Like, if the government really isn't the people that are in control, if there really is something far above and beyond the human government, That has some sort of an influence on world events.
01:45:09.000It's tough to vote in a congressman that says they're going to enact change when we're being observed by extraterrestrial life that can read your mind.
01:45:31.000If JD Vance doesn't know, aren't we all fucked?0.89
01:45:35.000If he just thinks that they're demons, like what he doesn't seem, I think he says he's too busy to like really dig into the UFO stuff, which I kind of get and understand, but also don't.0.89
01:45:48.000Because if that was obviously, I'm never going to be vice president, but if I was, that would be like the first thing I would look into as soon as I got into my desk.
01:45:56.000I'd be like, Where do they have everything?
01:45:58.000I'm going there, I'm going there, and I'm gonna say, You have to show me, and I'll keep my mouth shut, but I need to know, like, you need to show me.
01:46:05.000We need to know, like, what are we, I need to know what.
01:46:08.000Position we're at in order to move forward.
01:47:06.000And there are a lot of Catholics in the United States.
01:47:08.000So, I mean, people in the United States or even all over the world, there are countries like in Brazil where they're okay with, you know, if they're.
01:47:15.000If there are aliens up there, it's not going to change.
01:47:18.000They're probably watching us, and nobody's going to be upset about that.
01:47:21.000They're still going to vote for their presidents and their congresspeople and so forth.
01:47:49.000It's a guess of how it's going to affect.
01:47:52.000I would assume it affects it in a pretty spectacular way.
01:47:57.000If we have undeniable proof that there is some superior intelligence that's interacting with us and perhaps even controlling events and preventing certain things from happening,
01:48:10.000like when they go over nuclear bases and stop weapons functions.0.81
01:48:30.000So, most religions are assuming that there are other gods and goddesses or there is God and there are angels and demons and things like that.0.96
01:48:39.000There are, you know, non human intelligences.0.57
01:50:10.000So, I've heard her say that she thinks they're interdimensional beings, also.
01:50:14.000So, in a sense, the preternatural, right?
01:50:18.000Um, imagine a world, imagine how different religion would be if the book of Enoch was regularly taught in Sun Sunday at church.
01:50:29.000That they would tell you that story along with Moses and along with all the other stories that they would tell you about the book of Enoch, and everybody in the church would be sitting there like, What?
01:50:51.000Like, this was a part of an ancient story.
01:50:54.000And the real question is whenever I read these biblical stories, I'm always trying to.
01:51:00.000I know that they're writing things down.
01:51:03.000First of all, they're writing it in ancient Hebrew, and then it's transcribed and translated into Latin and to Greek and all these other languages, and a lot is lost in that translation.
01:53:07.000And I just don't know if the stories are accurate.
01:53:13.000I don't know if the written version of these stories accurately relays the real events that took place.
01:53:19.000Place and what they're trying to say, especially when in regards to the Watchers and the Nephilim and all that stuff and the giants, there's just so many weird parts of those stories that we're just supposed to just accept.
01:55:55.000And my dad came from a Catholic family.
01:55:56.000My mother came from a Jewish family, or she's Jewish.
01:55:59.000And so they didn't practice religion, total rationalists.0.92
01:56:04.000So I was watching it, and it was when the scene where the woman, the adulterous woman, is just about to be stoned to death by these guys, right?
01:57:14.000The whole Bible, the whole Bible, when you start to read it from beginning to end, you know, there are all those things that you just don't understand.
01:57:21.000Creation stories in Genesis, and you're like, Well, why are there two?
01:57:25.000And you know, there are all those names and lineages, and you're like, What?
01:57:28.000You get to the book of Leviticus, and it has all these rules and regulations, and you're like, You just don't understand it.
01:57:33.000And I knew that at that point, I needed to learn the original languages and how they were put together.
01:57:39.000That's why I decided to become a professor of religion.
01:57:42.000And so I became a Christian, and I was a born again Christian.
01:57:49.000And then when it came time to go to high school, I asked my father, he had Connections to Catholics.
01:57:54.000If I could go to Catholic high school, luckily I went to a Sisters of Mercy high school where they were beautiful people and I learned Catholicism in action, like actually helping people and stuff.
01:59:03.000And so I now teach New Testament at my university, and I do my best to kind of convey what these people were experiencing and the kinds of people still experience those things today.
01:59:17.000So, yeah, so that's how I became Christian.
01:59:44.000It's a, okay, so Catholics don't believe in biblical literalism, which is that you can't because there are so many parts of the Bible that contradict.
01:59:52.000So you'd be, you know, that would be a contradiction.
01:59:55.000But they believe that it is the inspired word of God written by people, written by men.
02:00:01.000And so there's fallibility in terms of the, Not in morals and the conveying of the spirit of Christianity.
02:00:22.000Do I believe that there are, that's why I believe that if the, according, listen, when I started to study UFOs, I was not expecting at all what I found.
02:01:41.000It supercharged my Christianity to the point where I went back and I reread all of that stuff again.
02:01:49.000And I recognized that whatever they're dealing with now, when people are having these experiences and so forth, not all of them, but a good many of them are, you can, you know, look to me similar in kind.
02:02:05.000I don't say they're identical, but they look similar.
02:02:07.000And therefore, if that's the case, then.
02:02:11.000You know, I need to be a different type of believer.
02:02:13.000I need to be a much more believing believer.
02:02:29.000Is it in any way frustrating that you have studied so much of these encounters and these experiences, but you don't have a personal encounter or a personal experience with these things?
02:02:43.000Well, that's an assumption that you have.
02:05:52.000Well, just that certain things happen at the right time, at the right moment.
02:05:56.000And, you know, I mean, lots of people have these experiences.
02:05:59.000If you read about Mel Gibson doing his movies, you know, The Passion of the Christ, he talks about very powerful things that happened on the set.
02:06:10.000So things like this, things that you know that.
02:06:14.000They're not probable, like Jim Caviesel being hit by lightning when he's on the cross, and things like that happen.
02:06:25.000I mean, you could say that's a coincidence, and you can look at it from that perspective, but
02:06:32.000it's all outlined in the book of Acts in the New Testament, if you read that book.
02:06:37.000It talks about these very significant experiences to the people.
02:06:42.000But the reason I don't talk about them is because if you talk about them to people who don't have those experiences, They will just say, well, that's just a coincidence, or that's that.
02:06:52.000So you're like, yeah, that's one way to look at it.
02:07:00.000It's a question of your own perception of it.
02:07:03.000But as an educator, don't you think perhaps if you have had these experiences, you have a responsibility to try to relay that information to people?
02:08:04.000Like I've been on podcasts where, you know, where they would say they're Christians and, you know, we're talking about Christian life and so forth.
02:08:12.000And I would explain my experiences and we would talk about that and people would, you know, they would talk about their experiences.
02:08:19.000But when you're at a secular university, that's not what you do.
02:09:15.000When you hear about people that supposedly they have this ritualistic practice where they manifest orbs and they meditate psionics, what do you think that is?
02:09:31.000So I do believe that they're doing something.
02:11:29.000So, one of the things I noticed was a lot of people in the beginning when I was doing this research would, and still today, would say, Diana, you can contact these beings.
02:13:06.000And again, the Christian churches don't do a good job of conveying that this is really important for Christians to know about, and not just Christians, but religious people all over the world.
02:13:17.000This is what they're doing when they're doing those protocols of religion.
02:13:19.000They're trying to cultivate the spiritual sense.
02:14:57.000And so I think that it's best just not to, unless you're like born into that culture that does that, and that's part of your religion.
02:15:04.000One of the things that seems to be the case in a lot of the people that have had these bad experiences is that they try to fight it and that they try to battle with the experience.
02:17:44.000Yeah, a lot of people say that that is just some sort of apologetic excuse for why the numbers don't match up correctly.
02:17:53.000But then I've also seen things that say that the pollen that is on the fibers matches up with the exact kind of plants that existed in Jerusalem 2,000 years ago and that that all aligns.
02:18:09.000And that further testing needs to be done to determine the actual date of it.
02:18:14.000That aside, there's still no explanation for why that image exists and how it was created.
02:18:24.000And I've never seen anyone explain in any way that makes any sense how that could have been forged by someone, how it could have been a forgery from someone that long ago that they could figure it out.
02:19:24.000And I mean, I'm not an expert on the shroud, but believe me, every expert that's out there since I was on your podcast a few years ago, they've reached out to me and they're like, tell Joe to get me on and so forth.
02:19:38.000Do you know someone that's a real good, credible expert?
02:20:24.000Now he's theological, but he actually does have studies and so forth.
02:20:28.000And what is unique about his perspective?
02:20:33.000So, his perspective is that first, you have to understand the Catholic Church is very careful about what they put their, you know, what they say is true and not true.
02:20:42.000It takes them forever to say something's a miracle.
02:20:45.000And often, when they identify something as being miraculous, they have a huge team of people, often who are the best at what they do, and they might not be Catholic, okay?
02:21:19.000However, he is not going to say, you know, he's going to give you the facts about each of the studies, and he's going to talk specifically about what we don't know, what we don't know about it.
02:21:30.000You know, might be as a Catholic, you have to say, This is not, we don't know about that.0.87
02:23:55.000So he went back to the place where he had seen her, and she said, Go up and get a bunch of flowers and put them in this cloak of yours, and then bring them to the bishop.
02:24:06.000You know, they're out of season, they don't grow in Mexico.
02:26:15.000Because what you're saying about the parts of the fabric that had been repaired and that's what they did the radiocarbon dating on, I've heard that disputed online.
02:28:32.000Straw yellow image shows a man with wounds consistent with crucifixion, side wound, wounds at the wrist and feet, puncture marks around the scalp.
02:28:43.000Conventional skeptical mainstream explanation for how the image was produced falls into a few camps.
02:28:55.000reported finding red ochre and vermilion pigments in a gelatin collagen tempera binder.
02:29:04.000Concluding it was painted in the 14th century.
02:29:06.000This remains the dominant skeptical explanation.
02:29:10.000Rubbing or bas relief transfer technique.
02:29:15.000Researchers like Joel Nickel have reproduced shroud like images by rubbing dry pigment, iron oxide, over a cloth laid on the bas relief sculpture, producing the same negative image, surface only characteristic.
02:29:29.000Acid, scorch, or chemical staining technique.
02:29:36.000Performed independently by labs at Oxford, Arizona, and Zurich, dated the flax to 1260 to 1390 CE with a 95% confidence, squarely in the medieval period,
02:29:48.000consistent with its documented appearance in Leary around 1355.
02:29:53.000Under the conventional view, this dating settles the question it's a medieval artifact likely produced as a devotional or pilgrimage object during the period when relic veneration was a booming industry.
02:30:40.000This is what Trout proponents contest all the above, arguing the C4 sample came from a medieval repair patch, that no reproduction fully matches the image's properties superficially of the 200 nanometer 3D encoded distance information,
02:30:57.000no brushstrokes, and that the blood stains are real human blood applied before the image formed.
02:31:04.000But the mainstream conventional description remains 14th century linen cloth with hand produced image made in France as a religious artifact.1.00
02:33:12.000Like, if I get, you know, analysis from somebody like Gary Nolan and he does this, like, you know, microscopic analysis of everything and says, no, Diana, sorry, this is not, you know, I'll be, oh, that's too bad.
02:33:27.000I really enjoyed having that belief for 10 years.
02:33:30.000But it seems like if the radiocarbon dating was from 1988, like, shouldn't we do some sort of an updated analysis of what this thing is?
02:36:07.000So it's there in the book in a more developed form.
02:36:12.000If I were to just do an elevator description of it, though, I would say that Steven Spielberg's film AI is a really good film about ET and what he thinks.
02:36:24.000You know, if ET were, I know he's just done disclosure day, but his movie AI seems like.
02:36:32.000It was a long time ago, but it's really good if you re watch it today.
02:36:38.000At the end, I'm not going to do, well, people should have seen it already, right?
02:36:42.000At the end, there are aliens, and they're basically humans have long since gone, and their technology, their AI, has improved itself to the point where it's a life form.
02:36:56.000And so that would be like the theory of.