00:00:36.000Which is actually maybe even grimmer than nuclear because, at least in nuclear, you're just like gone in the flash.
00:00:44.000I did a show a while back on the Sci Fi Network called Joe Rogan Questions Everything, and one of the episodes we did was about biological war.
00:00:52.000And so we spoke to this guy who used to work for Russia during the Cold War, and he was talking about how much anthrax they had and how much work they had done on biological weapons, and it was terrifying.
00:01:07.000You said they had like just giant vats of anthrax, like enough to kill everyone in New York City.
00:01:13.000They were mil- Was it Ken Alabek, do you know?
00:01:18.000There was a couple of those Russian defector scientists who came here and told us everything they were doing.
00:01:24.000There was like, you know, tons of anthrax and plague.
00:01:29.000That's actually the pathogen that I use in the scenario I write is plague because it's so crazy scary, so dangerous, sits at the top of the government's tier one select agent of dangerous pathogens.
00:02:31.000Mother Nature is just as powerful, but in truth, that's actually not true because think about what you can do with genetic modification make it more virulent, more transmissible,
00:02:42.000and make it defeat existing vaccines and antibiotics.
00:02:47.000Well, we are right now in the middle of the Fauci hearings.
00:03:00.000It's in one way, it's like I told you to a lot of my liberal friends that wanted to pretend that he was a great guy and that he wasn't doing anything wrong.
00:03:10.000And now that all these emails have gotten out where it shows that he knew that the fatality rate was much lower than they were saying, he knew that it wasn't dangerous for children, that they didn't need vaccines.
00:03:22.000He knew that the social distancing thing was all nonsense.
00:03:26.000And he's got a blanket pardon for 10 years.
00:03:29.000And the thing is, it's like these people get money for research.
00:03:36.000So if you get money and you get grants for research, well, you're going to go do research.
00:03:40.000And if your research is gain of function research that makes viruses more infectious to human beings, and you have to do it because that's your job.
00:05:04.000in a very like 90,000 foot neutral way.
00:05:07.000In other words, every sub, I leave COVID, that part of it out of my book.
00:05:12.000It becomes like a metaphor that underpins the narrative.
00:05:17.000And people end up reading the book and going, wow, I actually think differently about COVID, which was kind of my intention.
00:05:23.000But every subject matter expert I spoke to encouraged me to put in the book that almost certainly it was a lab leak.
00:05:32.000Like it's just, but so when I say, We still don't know.
00:05:36.000That's in a bit of air quotes, meaning how is it that someone can't.
00:05:41.000How does it all rest on Fauci, who had reasons to mislead us?
00:05:46.000We know that from looking at what's been released.
00:05:50.000How can it be that he's the only one with the alleged answer to it all?
00:05:56.000Well, I mean, the other scientists that were investigating it from the beginning, you know, when they examined the virus, they were saying that all indications that it had been manipulated.
00:06:04.000And they were pretty public about that, and then they weren't.
00:06:10.000When you have power and you have influence like he did and the power to make or break careers in the medical world where these people are terrified, they're already dealing with malpractice insurance,
00:07:11.000And what's crazy is that these are people that have worked.
00:07:15.000For Obama, just as much as all sides of the aisle working.
00:07:19.000The real people who are not, as you say, they don't have something to gain financially.
00:07:25.000We should say that Obama actually stopped gain of function research when he was in office, which was a very wise thing for him, very wise by his decision.
00:07:35.000So what do you make of the fact that Obama stopped this dangerous research, also called dual use research of concern?
00:07:45.000And then suddenly it becomes a partisan issue that Republic only one side of the aisle decides that – I mean, that's what confuses me because if the real – if you look at the facts,
00:07:57.000the very knowledgeable people that are well informed by people who don't have financial gain know that gain of function is essentially weapons engineering.
00:08:22.000But I think it's like, okay, that also sounds great for them to say we're trying to work on cures, but they're leaving out a really important point is that in order for us to find a cure, we have to make the pathogen more virulent,
00:09:07.000But it seems like there's a lot of bullshit going on and that really what they're trying to do is make better diseases that work better and they can use them.
00:09:16.000Like, this is part of the argument about whether or not Lyme disease was engineered.
00:09:21.000And there's a lot of evidence that points to the fact that it was.
00:09:24.000And one of the reasons for it is this Plum Island laboratory that's right off the coast of Lyme, Connecticut, where the disease was really first named in the 1970s or whatever it was.
00:09:36.000And so they were doing gain of function research, they were doing biological research on ticks in order to infect ticks with diseases, and then they would drop them out of airplanes and overwhelm the medical establishment in these areas.
00:09:49.000And the idea was that if you're fighting the enemy, you can fly over, dump a bunch of ticks on them.
00:09:56.000You don't have an effective fighting force.
00:09:59.000I mean, it's like we need to create a countermeasure, but first we need to create the weapon.
00:10:05.000I don't even know if they think that far ahead.
00:10:08.000I think a lot of it, I'm just guessing, but I think a lot of it is just what I was saying earlier.
00:10:13.000There's people, and their job is to do this kind of research, and they want grants and they want funding.
00:10:20.000And then there's other people that can profit off of this.
00:10:22.000Of these grants and this funding and creating labs and doing all this stuff, and they just start doing it and they come up with reasons why it should be done.
00:10:30.000And then, of course, you have military people that want the military applications of these diseases, and so they help facilitate it.
00:10:37.000And they don't even think, How does this play out?
00:10:42.000They think about their own interests, their own short term benefits of having these things, and they just continue the research, they continue to work.
00:10:50.000And the fact that they even push back on the idea that it was a lab leak is so hard.
00:10:55.000When you have a lab, Right where it was leaked.
00:10:58.000I mean, right where it started happening, you've got a lab there.
00:11:01.000And then the famous Jon Stewart bit that he did on the Colbert show, which is hilarious.
00:12:03.000One case fatality rate of one pneumonic plague which I write about in Biological War, Mother Nature's pneumonic plague, 100 out of 100 die, 100% case fatality rate.
00:12:20.000Unless you get antibiotics within 24 hours, then it's about a 15% case fatality rate.
00:12:30.000You can learn how to out-fox antibiotics so that you can turn Mother Nature's pneumonic plague, which used to be curable with antibiotics, to have no cure.
00:12:46.000That's the threat level we're dealing with.
00:12:49.000And meanwhile, people are taking sides about what we're talking about, a lab leak that pretty obviously was a lab leak.
00:12:58.000Well, first of all, I didn't realize that COVID's fatality rate was that high.
00:13:01.000I thought it was much lower than that.
00:14:10.000So there's no – uncertainty would be something that you would think would be sort of factored into public health officials talking about things.
00:14:19.000Like, we're not sure if . . . . but instead they act with this crazy certainty, which is – Well, the big problem with that is profit, right?
00:14:31.000There was a lot of profit in being able to point towards one very particular method, one very particular treatment, and this was the only treatment.
00:14:40.000And you have to take this treatment, and this treatment is going to make people an insane amount of money.
00:14:45.000But that's not why they're pushing it.
00:15:21.000I think they're just, I think the mismanagement and the overall strategy for dealing with it and dealing with people, the lockdown, Downs, keeping kids out of school, masking, all of it was so bad.
00:15:34.000It's so indefensible that one of the wildest things now is during this Fauci trial, you're not seeing any coverage of it on mainstream media, except I saw one of those stupid panel shows on CNN where they were saying, No one cares about this.
00:15:49.000We should care about what's happening right now.
00:15:51.000America doesn't care about what happened five years ago.
00:15:53.000Hey, there's a congressional hearing going on where a guy's testifying in front of Congress who got a 10 year, complete 10 year immunity for all the crimes that he possibly could have committed.
00:16:06.000When he wasn't convicted of any crimes, which is an incredible precedent that's never happened before.
00:16:11.000You've never had a guy get pardoned for something that he was never convicted of for 10 years, anything he did in 10 years.
00:16:18.000And then you have that same guy testifying in front of Congress, pleading the fifth that what color his tie is?
00:16:24.000If you don't think that's news, you're out of your fucking mind and you shouldn't be calling yourself the news because you're just a propaganda arm for whatever pharmaceutical company is paying for your advertisements.
00:16:41.000People who lost their jobs, people who had to take a vaccine in order to go to work and got sick from it, people who they couldn't fly, they couldn't travel, they were vilified, they were called plague rats because they were questioning these things.
00:17:15.000You know, but what's interesting is I think the lack of news ends up making people more curious.
00:17:23.000So in other words, people go to other sources of information.
00:17:26.000If they're not going to get it from CNN, they're going to look for it themselves because we're naturally curious, especially something like COVID.
00:17:35.000So I think I kind of get the sense that people toe certain groups of people, certainly not me because you don't know what my politics are, but they will toe the party line, but then they have their own opinion privately.
00:17:50.000Which is unfortunately what we also saw from Dr. Fauci.
00:17:53.000But that's a completely different point because he's a public health official and he shouldn't be, you know, speaking out of one side of his mouth and writing in his journal another thing that he really thinks.
00:18:04.000But I think that this human instinct to want to know the truth about what happened must prevail, right?
00:18:15.000But my original point was like, why is Dr. Fauci allegedly the only one who can really tell us?
00:18:22.000About the Wuhan lab, like, where's the CIA?
00:18:59.000My first six books were written in the past tense, like, you know, The Nazi Scientist Who Came to America, Area 51, The Pentagon's Brain.
00:19:10.000The nuclear war and biological war are written in the future.
00:19:14.000They're scenarios based on Pentagon war games.
00:19:18.000And that was me realizing, like, there are major existential threats right now speeding up.
00:19:26.000at the rate of science, which is going faster every day, literally.
00:19:30.000And so I modeled the two books after Pentagon war games and got access to people who actually run these games at the Pentagon and learned the sort of holy shit,
00:19:43.000people are preparing for the worst case scenario and no one knows about it.
00:21:11.000I always got the sense in the same way that when your kids are babies and they get diarrhea, that you give them pediolite to like, you know, get their system filled with necessary electrolytes.
00:21:21.000So that's, and I also got the sense that it was like hydration and, you know, better than water.
00:21:44.000And that was really interesting to me because having written all these books about, you know, the Defense Department and the CIA, the programs are very, you know, they're very structured and ordered and they don't take place in the homeland because we're always fighting wars overseas.
00:22:00.000So to learn about a program that would go down in the continental United States where, you know, the Insurrection Act gets declared, posse comitatus gets lifted, the military takes over.
00:22:15.000Dot dot dot, and then it goes from there, third act of the book, spoiler alert.
00:22:24.000And it was equally shocking that I could actually get this information.
00:22:27.000A lot of it's classified, but the names of some of the programs are unclassified.
00:22:32.000So the officials that I interviewed took me up to the edge of what can be legally known.
00:22:38.000And I also got the sense of, like, oh, that the sense that these former officials are conveying is the public should know about this.
00:22:49.000My personal interpretation is like, let's stop arguing about stuff that doesn't matter and get to the facts and start realizing where the real threats are.
00:22:59.000So, their real fear is worrying about the aftermath, worrying about chaos in the streets, rioting, looting.
00:23:39.000All of them that I was looking at go through the series of events, you know, outbreak, infection, sort of everyone trying to mitigate the release, the spread.
00:25:25.000COGCON 1 is in effect and the devolution plan happens, which I learned means a subset of pre-designated officials, they know who they are, they've signed contracts, they've rehearsed it,
00:25:44.000In the words of the former FEMA director, COGCON 1, you send your devolution crews out.
00:25:51.000They go out to a hot site, warm site, or cold site, underground bunkers located around the United States.
00:25:59.000This is from an actual FEMA chief telling me this.
00:26:03.000And they set up how to run the government because the idea is all the regular government people will probably be dead of anarchy, insurrection, pneumonic plague.
00:27:25.000That's what I was told by a very reliable source.
00:27:27.000That was available, meaning there was nothing else available that was incognito?
00:27:32.000They were trying to transport him to the Doomsday Plan, which is where he ended up going, into the Doomsday Plan and flying around in some of them.
00:27:41.000And they thought that a caravan of SUVs would be too obvious?
00:30:41.000Well, they still resist it, what constitutes modern civilization or civilization in general.
00:30:48.000They're still trying to say some archaeologists are hanging on, tooth and claw, trying to say that hunter gatherers made these enormous stone columns with 3D drawings that seem to be a calendar of some sort of a cataclysmic event.
00:31:02.000So some of the pictures we were just looking at from Mount Weather may be not accurate because it's also used in the TV show, The 100.
00:31:30.000And it's essentially about an underground civilization that survives some sort of cataclysm.
00:31:35.000They don't exactly say in the beginning, I'm early on the show, they don't say what the cataclysm is, but these people have to live like deep, deep, deep underground in these self containing facilities and you can't go outside or you die.
00:33:12.000So imagine they find this underground and they don't even know how old it is because if you find some stuff, you can't carbon date the walls.
00:38:19.000If the shit goes down and you happen to be in Hawaii and you've got to get to New Zealand.
00:38:24.000Also, your bodyguards are a lot stronger than you are.
00:38:29.000Well, wouldn't you bring them with you?
00:38:30.000Yeah, but it's going to be every man for themselves.
00:38:34.000If you're going to have that kind of money to make a bunker that could house a few hundred people so that you could, you know, nobody gets insurrection in your movement?
00:38:43.000I mean, I suppose if you bring everybody's family, you have to have a lot of preparing for this.
00:38:48.000That's what really kept taking me back to those documents in the Defense Department about fear of infection creates anarchy and insurrection because this idea of like, fear of infection, people begin to,
00:39:03.000their mind actually begins to change in the studies under scarcity.
00:39:08.000And scarcity coupled with fear of infection, it's so visceral.
00:39:12.000It's like it's as much of an archetype as the bunker, being infected.
00:39:16.000Very, very different than being shot at.
00:39:20.000You get the sense if you can get into the bunker, if you're being attacked with a physical weapon, okay, I'm safe now.
00:39:31.000But with fear of infection, I mean, a biological weapon or any pathogen is a living munition.
00:39:38.000It self replicates and it's got an incubation period, so then it adds right.
00:39:44.000So then you can be infected and not know it while it's incubating inside of your body, and then you infect a bunch of other people as well.
00:39:53.000And we saw during COVID how aggressive people got screaming at people for not wearing masks, and you know, that was as far as pandemics go, fairly mild.
00:40:05.000Like, I mean, if you go with the CDC's 1% or your 0.1%, It's perplexity.
00:40:13.000I mean, you're talking about a nothing burger compared to- Compared to the pneumonic plague.
00:40:20.000Aaron Powell, Jr.: I mean, look, I also write in the book, and this has never been reported before because I interviewed CIA officers who both debriefed the Soviet defectors and also people who chased WMD in the hands of terrorists during the war on terror.
00:40:38.000I specifically didn't want to write that scenario because it's So loaded to go with like terrorist use of a biological agent.
00:40:47.000But I give you little history lessons when I stop the drama.
00:40:51.000One of which involves an Al Qaeda terrorist that was captured.
00:40:57.000She's actually now in Texas in a mental institution for the rest of her life.
00:41:01.000She's an MIT trained biologist related by marriage to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
00:41:16.000She was trained at MIT and then she went back to Pakistan.
00:41:20.000She was the first woman on the FBI's most wanted terrorist list.
00:41:25.000How come they have her in a mental institute?
00:41:27.000Because they caught her and then this part is reported.
00:41:30.000They caught her and somehow, again the air quote, somehow she got a hold of a Marine's rifle and was firing at the FBI agents interviewing her.
00:41:43.000They took her to the United States, gave her a trial, decided she was insane, put her in a mental institution.
00:41:48.000But what had never been revealed before my book is that in her handbag, she had plans to create a genetically modified pathogen that mixed rabies with chickenpox.
00:43:00.000I almost went with the rabies scenario because I always, in these scenarios, tie them to actual events that have happened so that readers don't go like this is Annie Jacobson's dystopian imagination as much as they say, oh,
00:43:15.000she's following what, you know, science.
00:43:18.000This is science fact, not science fiction.
00:43:21.000And so when I learned about that plan for the genetic modification of rabies and chicken, airborne rabies.
00:43:28.000But then I thought How far did she get along with this?
00:43:34.000But I did get a second person, David Relman, who's the advisor to the president on biodefense, to confirm with me that that was actually located in her handbag and caused serious concern.
00:44:08.000She had collected materials on viruses for biological warfare, and one of her projects is finding its way to infect America's poultry supplies with an antibody that would allow chickens to pass salmonella onto humans more easily.
00:44:20.000She later destroyed her work after suspecting Abu Lubab was hoping to double cross her and turn her into the United States authorities.
00:44:29.000This is a long Wikipedia with quite a bit of twists and turns.
00:46:00.000It's like if society completely collapses and anarchy just sweeps the nation and you've got cities on fire and people killing people and looting, eventually they're going to run out of food.
00:46:11.000Eventually, there's going to be no infrastructure.
00:49:15.000And then the other problem is that the other people who are left that are not in the military are, imagine the skills you have to have to be able to like deal with fear of infection in a manner that you basically have to be able to,
00:49:30.000as it was said to me, kill people on site, like not even worrying about weather.
00:49:33.000This is where it really feels like The Walking Dead or, you know, an apocalyptic movie.
00:50:24.000But I just figure all of this is a cautionary tale, and I also figure it's better to know than to talk about it.
00:50:30.000Well, it's better to inform, and I think you do an amazing job of that, and I think you're a very important You inform people of these things that you really should be considering.
00:50:38.000I mean, your nuclear war book freaked a lot of people out that were kind of, you know, nuclear war was in the back of their mind.
00:50:46.000You know, yeah, it's a possibility, but hey, we haven't done it.
00:50:56.000You know, you said something to me last time we spoke about the Nuclear War book.
00:51:00.000That really stayed with me and it has an interesting coda.
00:51:05.000So you were like Annie, I couldn't read Nuclear War.
00:51:08.000It freaked out a lot of my friends, I can't read it.
00:51:10.000And then you explained why and you said i'm paraphrasing you.
00:51:13.000But you said I think about those people at Hiroshima and Nagasaki and they were just going about their daily life And all of a sudden, they're incinerated.
00:52:35.000Now, what was also interesting is a couple of the younger people who don't remember, who were like infants, their mothers, like let's say one parent died and another,
00:52:48.000so the living parent would shield them from that by never telling them that they were Hibakshya.
00:52:58.000So then they had this whole other kind of realization later in life when they learned.
00:53:04.000And some of, I mean, those stories were like incredible because you're learning about how, like, a parent's love for a child means not telling them what you think would make them feel stigmatized.
00:53:16.000But yet, you, them explaining to me that they felt that stigma throughout their life, anyways, not knowing why.
00:53:25.000I never even would have considered that stigma.
00:53:28.000I would have considered survivor's guilt, which people do have.
00:53:32.000If you're a part of a disaster and you're one of the ones that lives, people get survivor's guilt.
00:53:37.000But I never would have thought of the stigma of being maligned as an infected, radioactive person.
00:53:44.000And Japan has such a different culture.
00:53:46.000I couldn't have imagined that either until I heard it firsthand from the experience of the survivors.
00:54:09.000Look, I mean, when anyone starts a war that's not necessary, that's the wrong word for it.
00:54:16.000But, you know, just like this is the whole it's just a terrible, terrible, terrible idea.
00:54:22.000It just seems to me like the opposite of what the Department of Defense is.
00:54:28.000It's why I continue to call it the Department of Defense, by the way, because it still is in my mind, and certainly until Congress changes the name.
00:54:37.000You know, it's supposed to be for defense.
00:54:40.000So I think so much of what I have written about, all the wars since World War II, I've interviewed 100 or more people for each of my eight books who have been in every war.
00:54:53.000And the big shift for me, like understanding a change in mindset was the Bush-Cheney administration starting the Iraq War.
00:55:07.000Like I really believe that many of the problems we're experiencing today as a society stem from that.
00:55:14.000And that has to do with the fact of all the soldiers that I've interviewed, there's a completely different perspective on the government from those who fought in the wars leading up to the war on terror.
00:55:31.000And the people who, most of them, you know many of these people too, like they're mad.
00:55:38.000They're really mad that they were used.
00:56:13.000I heard, you know, I heard Joe Kent, who was the number two at ODNI who resigned.
00:56:20.000I heard him say a really interesting thing about the warrior class that I hadn't, you know, when you just like have all this information, but you didn't put something together and then you hear it and you're like, of course.
00:56:33.000And what Joe said was one of, this was in reference to Trump maybe saying there was going to be or someone in this administration saying there should be a draft and everyone freaking out and saying like, that's, you know, That's outrageous.
00:56:46.000And Joe Kent's point was really interesting.
00:56:48.000He said, there should be a draft, but not for reasons you think.
00:56:56.000presently, America has a warrior class, and Joe Kent is in it, meaning, you know, these are like a, don't have the exact statistic, 1%, less than 1% of families who are in the military.
00:57:13.000And he said, Kent said, you know, we socialize with one another.
00:57:55.000Instead of thinking we should go to war like a Lindsey Graham type perspective, whereas no real skin in the game, he's not going to go get shot, no one he knows is going to go get shot.
00:58:09.000So that's kind of my answer to, you know, and I'll see a headline that's like, the war in Iran costs us XYZ billion dollars, and it's like, it doesn't even mention all the people dying.
00:58:20.000You know, there's like 10, and yes, the Americans, but like it's just talk about misreporting.
00:58:35.000And then it also, the real problem is it makes America an enemy and it makes us less safe because America has done this thing, this unprovoked attack, and so now they have a reason to attack back.
01:00:04.000But everybody signed a treaty in 1972 called the Biological Weapons Convention Treaty.
01:00:11.000saying we will not make biological weapons.
01:00:13.000They are odious to the conscience of mankind.
01:00:17.000At that point, the Soviets signed the treaty, crossed their fingers behind their back, and made a ginormous biological weapons program that you talked about earlier.
01:00:30.000America allegedly destroyed her arsenal of biological weapons, which took 219 weeks to destroy, by the way.
01:00:42.000And not for another 20 years did we learn that.
01:00:45.000Actually, the Soviets were running this biological weapons program, and we only learned it because of the Soviet defectors.
01:05:14.000I mean, this stuff is so thinly reported and it's always got like a giant sensationalist clickbait type headline.
01:05:24.000And people read about it and know about it a little bit.
01:05:27.000And then the real reality behind it, I think, gets completely lost, which is that the bottom line is that the barrier to entry in the biological weapons field is so incredibly low.
01:06:02.000Nuclear weapons are tightly controlled by a nation's command and control structure.
01:06:09.000All subject matter experts I interviewed for this book expressed their serious concern that the barrier for entry is so low that basically, given computational systems, AI-enabled bio,
01:06:24.000basically a high school student with limited knowledge of biology can make a bioweapon in their basement or in the Vegas apartment building.
01:06:46.000Yeah, it said not a laboratory, adding that the samples and equipment suggested no active work was happening there.
01:06:52.000But it says, I think the question is why does somebody have these materials in a private residence that's not a doctor, not a lab, not a licensed medical facility of any sort?
01:09:03.000I mean, one of the problems of the over politicization of everything is that it just seems like anything important becomes splatter and becomes secondary to some of these other concerns that seem to take headlines,
01:09:41.000But the real issue is what happens if someone does get, what happens if a pathogen gets seeded in the community and an outbreak starts to move to an epidemic?
01:09:52.000And, you know, the, I write in the end of the book, Joe, the point is not panic.
01:09:57.000This is, of course, after I take you through the worst dystopian nightmare ever.
01:10:03.000Pressure to understand the threat, the labs around the world, the bureaucracy involved, all the different problems that would come up of mitigating the threat, so that you can be informed and also say, wait a minute,
01:10:18.000something really needs to be done and needs to be looked at here.
01:10:22.000And instead, people are arguing about the most obvious thing in the world to my eye.
01:10:28.000you know what happened in the senate yesterday like that is pretty obvious what happened what is being covered up we were misled and yet all of this in i'm not saying to skip over it and you know but it's it's like how much effort do we put on something without a resolution that's what confounds me
01:10:54.000yeah it's a really good question and the fact that there's so many labs in this country And that they've all sprung up post 2001.
01:11:05.000They moved that Plum Island lab, by the way, to Kansas.
01:11:11.000And it either just opened or is about to open.
01:11:15.000It costs an extraordinary amount of money.
01:12:36.000who, by the way, really have a utopian take on this.
01:12:39.000Now, there is lots of money involved for them, but they really believe that science is the answer and can be the answer to a lot of these problems.
01:12:50.000I sat next to a guy at dinner a couple nights ago who told me that his company in San Diego has a countermeasure for alpha-gol.
01:13:26.000Like, hey, whatever works, but is this real?
01:13:30.000Acupuncture, specifically a specialized ear technique called Solomon auricular allergy treatment, is being explored by integrative practitioners to help manage and potentially achieve remission for AlphaGal syndrome.
01:13:46.000Though it's not yet a standard medically proven cure.
01:13:51.000How it works for AlphaGal targeted ear points.
01:13:54.000Provider locates a specific highly reactive electrical point on the outer ear associated with the AlphaGal immune response.
01:14:03.000Acupuncture is so weird because it seems to be doing something.
01:14:29.000Sure, call it the placebo effect or call it whatever you want, but it certainly works for me.
01:14:34.000I don't necessarily think it's a placebo.
01:14:37.000I think a lot of that really old stuff we like to dismiss because we like petroleum based pharmaceutical drugs because that's what the doctor gives us as standard of care.
01:14:46.000I have a feeling there's a lot of real stuff.
01:14:49.000It's been around too long for them to just keep.
01:14:55.000Well, if it turns out that this ear technique actually puts alpha gallon remission, maybe people will take that stuff more seriously and start using acupuncture for other reasons.
01:15:08.000Because I know a lot of people swear by it.
01:15:11.000And I'm always, I just kind of raise my eyebrows like, all right, good luck.
01:15:15.000But maybe that's just me being ignorant.
01:15:17.000And definitely that's me being ignorant.
01:15:19.000A specialized ear acupuncture method called the Solomon Auricular Allergy Treatment.
01:15:25.000Shows a high reported success rate of about 85 to 96 percent for putting AlphaGal syndrome symptoms into remission.
01:15:42.000I like that that's out there because I always feel like the acupuncturists are sidelined because they're not part of the medical insurance military industrial complex.
01:15:52.000The small needle stays in your ear for three to four weeks.
01:17:08.000But people that have autoimmune issues, people that have allergies, people that have a lot of different weird things, apparently they have some great responses from that.
01:17:16.000But my friend, you know, he struggled with a bunch of different things and getting his blood work and lab work done.
01:17:22.000He was also in the military and spent a lot of time overseas.
01:17:26.000And one of the things that he found out is PFAS, PFAS, these forever chemicals that you get from plastics.
01:17:35.000Well, it's not just that, it's also just hot water.
01:17:39.000So, like, they take these bottles of plastic, bottles of water in cases, and they've got them sitting out in the sand in the sun in Afghanistan and Iraq.
01:19:04.000But people, you know, the whole new creeping up of new diseases emerging in sort of like pockets of the country and feeling like the CDC or the HHS.
01:19:14.000Has no real lid on it or no real explanation, I think, kind of seriously undermines the general wellness of the nation.
01:19:26.000Well, that was a big problem with COVID is that this feeling of the fear and anxiety affected people's immune systems as well, affected their depression levels, affected their happiness, like just their overall feel and anxiety.
01:19:42.000I mean, how much of it affects just the cortisol boost?
01:19:46.000All the different things that are happening that are stressing out your body because of that pandemic that we don't even consider as being part of that experience.
01:19:54.000I think also when you like, okay, can I give you an anecdote?
01:19:58.000Because this comes to mind about what you're saying is like that idea that there's uncertainty, okay?
01:20:03.000And uncertainty raises your cortisol levels.
01:20:06.000And even worse is when you're uncertain about something you're being told is true, but you're like, I'm uncertain.
01:20:12.000That is like even more anxiety making.
01:21:17.000The CDC went into a partnership with Lysol.
01:21:21.000Lysol disappeared from the supply chain.
01:21:26.000We now know that's actually called fomite transmission.
01:21:29.000That's the scientific term for getting something off a surface.
01:21:33.000We now know that one in 10,000 cases of COVID was transmitted from a surface.
01:21:41.000How can they have gotten it so wrong is a question everybody should be asking.
01:21:47.000And the explanation, because by the way, the WHO didn't change, they kind of quietly about nine months later started saying COVID was airborne, same as CDC.
01:21:58.000They never said like, look, we're really sorry, we made a serious mistake.
01:23:28.000Well, your skin is an organ, and you're taking this stuff that just nukes all of your skin flora, and you're just wiping your hands with it and rubbing it all over you, like.
01:24:52.000You know, like the pacifier rule, you know, when you're a new mom and it's like if it fell on the floor for like, I mean, it's kind of gross, but three seconds, then it's fine, right?
01:25:03.000Well, a certain amount of exposure does strengthen your immune system.
01:25:06.000And kids that are just living in these completely sterile environments, you got to think that they have an atrophied immune system because their immune system's not having to battle this stuff.
01:25:16.000We just, we're terrified of what we don't know.
01:25:18.000And that's part of the problem with having bad experts or experts that have. really flawed approaches.
01:25:25.000I mean, that's what was so interesting writing this book because I learned so much about biology and about physiology, right?
01:25:34.000Like we all deal with disease so incredibly differently.
01:25:40.000There is not a set, you know, pathogen A impacts people differently.
01:25:46.000And why there isn't more of that, why people don't lean into that Mother Nature mystery more, and I'm talking about public health officials.
01:25:56.000I don't understand because what has happened I see in society is it's created this fracture where you're either following a sort of set of scientific data which just came from a one lab or one group of scientists.
01:26:13.000You're either following that or you're you're you're somehow having an alternate narrative that is actually like somehow harmful and it couldn't be more the opposite.
01:26:27.000And when the shit hits the fan, you need a kind of unity among people.
01:26:33.000You need a sense of like, okay, well, we all disagree and we all have different immune systems, but what's best for the kind of greater, the collective?
01:26:45.000And I find more than anything that people, the Fauci hearings in point, like instead of being like, hmm, maybe I need to change my mind about this, people are like, well, if it serves my side, I'm going to go louder.
01:26:59.000And if it doesn't serve my side, I'm going to move on to something else.
01:27:03.000Trevor Burrus Yeah, I've seen people talk about what a travesty bringing him in front of the Congress and having him question like that and how much good he's done.
01:27:13.000I've seen people like making these statements online like, what are you seeing that I'm not seeing?
01:27:19.000I'm seeing someone who doesn't want to tell the truth and someone whose emails show a completely contradictory version of what happened versus what he's publicly stated before.
01:27:31.000Including when he was testifying before under oath.
01:27:34.000So he really should be charged with perjury.
01:27:38.000But because of this whole 10 year immunity thing that he got, he doesn't have to worry about any of that.
01:27:43.000Which is also weird because the immunity, the pardon is supposed to protect you from being prosecuted, but then you're no longer supposed to have the Fifth Amendment.
01:28:02.000What I also want to know is because none of these things happen in a vacuum right, and it reminds me a little bit of that UM phrase, you know, when the rats jump off the Titanic right as it was sinking because I have a little different experience.
01:28:16.000I have watched different individuals, certainly in the news, carefully of like who's changing, because I just want to learn from it.
01:28:24.000Don't report it, i'm just eyeing it and i'm seeing people kind of decide, oh, maybe now i'll say a little more about, and you know Fauci right, because I do think that people end up having a, They will go where the collective is going, right?
01:28:42.000And because I don't write about politics at all, I'm not involved in this.
01:28:46.000But observationally, it's interesting to me.
01:28:48.000But for this reason in particular, is that why was Fauci in charge?
01:28:54.000There are other people who are responsible for letting him be in charge.
01:28:58.000Like having studied the bureaucracy of what happens in a pandemic, in a biological incident, which this was, there's no reason that he was in charge.
01:29:11.000There's not doctrine that put him in charge.
01:30:02.000I don't know, but it should be looked at.
01:30:05.000In other words, yes, we all know that he was in charge and he was always, but what I don't understand is in a billion, actually trillion dollar, HHS, by the way,
01:30:17.000has a budget that's twice the size of the Defense Department.
01:30:22.000twice the size of the Defense Department.
01:30:25.000And so, and it defaulted to Fauci, who was head of NIH, then retired, and then he was just chosen as like the president's lead medical counsel or medical professional.
01:30:39.000So in other words, a group of people put him into that position.
01:30:52.000Yeah, I'm sure part of it was just they needed someone to take the reins, and he was more than willing to do it and probably confidently stated how he would handle it and what we were going to do and how to go about it.
01:31:05.000And didn't those people also have an opinion?
01:31:09.000Like, what if they saw the Jon Stewart episode where, you know, like, even if they didn't have an opinion before, why didn't they have an opinion after?
01:31:17.000And why did everybody just fall into line like sheep?
01:31:21.000That's really more interesting to me at this point.
01:31:26.000In addition to the individual being held responsible for obviously misleading the public and creating a conspiratorial situation, conspiring is simply two or more people working to conceal the truth.
01:32:09.000And the reason why it's legally, you know, it's a really difficult situation and it needs to be looked at is because one person, you know, it can keep a secret, right?
01:32:20.000But when multiple people are involved and a conspiracy is involved, you are actively working as a group to mislead.
01:32:28.000And then it becomes easier, more powerful, more effective.
01:32:34.000And so those other scientists, you know, we now know on the record that there were a dozen scientists that Fauci looked to to give him information about lab leak versus wet market.
01:33:17.000You know, because I think if you're just going to have a single fall guy, you're really not going to be doing much for the future to have people, you know, a group of people say, you know, I don't want to be part of this conspiracy.
01:33:32.000Because that's an important individual stance that can be taken by many people.
01:33:39.000And we see that among, you said you have friends who don't want to kind of take a position because they don't want to be associated with that group or that group.
01:33:47.000Well, you know, if it starts in the center and there's responsibility for the group, I think that makes people think more open-mindedly in the future.
01:33:59.000Well, yeah, the problem was these people's career depended upon them towing the line.
01:34:03.000And if they stepped outside of Fauci's jurisdiction, power, they were fucked.
01:34:09.000And he clearly did that to people like jay Bhattacharya and all these different people that got kicked off of Twitter and maligned, people that were like serious experts that disagreed with a lot of different aspects of the pandemic.
01:34:21.000I mean, people's—they attempted to ruin people's careers.
01:34:38.000I mean, that's great like for revenge TV, but it's not great in a democracy.
01:34:43.000Well, we're fortunate that it turned out that way, but it didn't have to.
01:34:46.000I mean, if Kamala Harris had won, it wouldn't have.
01:34:48.000It would have been a totally different administration, and it would probably have been the same people that were there during the Biden administration plus.
01:34:55.000And it's where the term conspiracy theory became a pejorative really during the Kennedy assassination because there was a bunch of people that didn't buy it and they got maligned.
01:35:08.000They got labeled as conspiracy theorists.
01:35:10.000So then that's when that term became this thing that you would apply to kooks.
01:37:53.000That's the best method of getting vitamin D.
01:37:55.000And it's actually good for your immune system to be outside.
01:37:58.000So, you're supposed to be taking care of yourself.
01:37:59.000You're supposed to be eating vitamins and nutrients.
01:38:01.000And how many more people would have survived if they had just did that?
01:38:04.000How much lower would that death rate have been if they had promoted the use of vitamin D along with K2 and magnesium?
01:38:11.000All these different things like people need to exercise, need to drink more water, be more hydrated, take care of yourself, get sleep.
01:38:17.000All these things affect your immune system.
01:38:20.000And then on top of that, alcohol consumption went way up during COVID because people were locked up at home and they were just getting hammered all the time.
01:38:45.000Yeah, there's a lot of people that don't want to think about it because it was so weird.
01:38:49.000Like, every now and then, you know, I watch a lot of fights for my job and because I love it.
01:38:56.000But I'll watch fights that took place during the pandemic and you see all the corner people with masks on.
01:39:02.000And they're screaming with masks on, and they pull their masks down when they're yelling out instructions, and they have to pull their masks back up.
01:39:08.000It's so weird to see a bunch of people just walking around with masks on.
01:40:23.000So they're on a stage, nowhere near people, with a mask on, speaking into a microphone with a fucking mask on in 2026.
01:40:32.000So it's like, there's people that are like, you know, those people that didn't want to admit that the war was over and they were all like, the Japanese guys were just like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:43:45.000And I said, Why didn't you tell us all that?
01:43:48.000Like, right, okay, first of all, it's a little levity, you know what I mean?
01:43:53.000Like that the number two guy in charge has a big nose, right?
01:43:59.000And that he's the first guy to admit it, and that the matter is.
01:44:02.000His answer, why didn't he tell him that?
01:44:04.000Oh, he said, I'm paraphrasing, but he was like, you know, it was the equivalent of like orders from top down.
01:44:16.000Don't argue with what we're trying to accomplish.
01:44:19.000I mean, that was essentially what it is.
01:44:23.000And when I asked him more about that, you know, it's like we had so much on our hands that we were trying, like he specifically was trying to deal with 300 quarantined people.
01:44:39.000He also had people that were dying in Japan, like the elderly on the ship that couldn't get brought back.
01:44:44.000And so I got the sense from him, he's like a very dedicated public servant, in my opinion.
01:44:49.000And I could see from interviews with him that in real time you're dealing with so much incredible, intense responsibilities.
01:44:59.000What I take issue with after all the fallout and what I see from Fauci, for example, is that, and again, this is just my opinion, but it seems to be that.
01:45:08.000There are people who are actually really dedicated public servants who, like, are trying to find a solution, filling the shoes that they are in.
01:45:21.000And then there's others who are looking maybe more for personal gain, as you said, the money, the power, the prestige.
01:45:29.000And so I think one of the most disheartening things that have come out of the reveals of the Senate to me is, like, somebody like Dr. Fauci, you know,
01:45:41.000Suggesting himself for these million dollar awards at a time when people aren't even able to see their dying grandmother.
01:45:50.000And even though it's less legal, it's more, it speaks more to, are you kidding me?
01:46:29.000But I do believe that, Joe, because I've interviewed so many individuals for all eight of my books, more than 100.
01:46:39.000And maybe it's just the people that I enjoy interviewing and I know how to, like, you know, avoid the the sycophants, if you will, or the people who are in it for the wrong reason.
01:46:50.000But I feel like there are an extraordinary number of people in our military, in our State Department, in the intelligence community who are actually really capable people doing their job under extraordinary circumstances.
01:47:08.000I think if that wasn't the case, we would live in total, complete chaos.
01:47:12.000I think it takes just a few people that have power and that become tyrants.
01:47:19.000Run things the way Fauci did that can ruin it for all the good people.
01:47:24.000If you think about those other 10 people, imagine if they got to vote the 10 people that didn't think that this was a natural spillover, that thought it was a lab leak.
01:47:32.000If they got their say and they put that out there and we got to investigate that very early on.
01:47:37.000Well, you know, Fauci was like, I asked all these experts and it's their consensus that it was most likely a lab leak.
01:47:43.000Okay, well, then you have a totally different narrative.
01:47:48.000The kind of person that wants that kind of Power and wants that kind of influence and has their staff chasing after these million dollar awards.
01:48:20.000And that's why I think that it's really unfortunate that all of the emphasis goes to one person and the whole party then either vilifies or puts that person on a pedestal when you've got all these other people.
01:49:56.000But what I can do or what I try to do is tell you an interesting story and get your attention.
01:50:03.000And so if my storytelling is getting this is what I was told at the United Nations, for example, the lead Diplomat from Austria on the new treaty said to me, Annie, your book, Nuclear War,
01:50:18.000did something that we subject matter experts have forgotten to do, which is just make sense to regular people.
01:50:28.000And when things become rarefied and there's only the esoteric leaders making decisions, and we've spent our conversation talking about how flawed some of these people are, that's like bad decision making.
01:50:43.000And I think what What the positive part of all of this would be like, and I know it sounds Pollyanna ish to say information is king, knowledge is king, but like it is.
01:50:55.000Because if you have a bit more information about a subject that seems really threatening, I think you can make better judgments about what's going on.
01:51:08.000So when you gave these people this book and they got a hold of it, did you have a timeline of returning to them and discussing with them some of the subjects?
01:51:52.000When you started this versus when you ended the book, how much did it change your perspective?
01:52:00.000Well, I mean, like I told you, I am an eternal optimist, but this is very frightening.
01:52:06.000I mean, nuclear, at least you have the sense of if it happens, we're all going out in the flash.
01:52:12.000That's what I learned from nuclear, right?
01:52:14.000And that quote from Nikita Khrushchev about nuclear weapons where he says, he wrote actually, he said this to JFK, I believe, where he said, The survivors would envy the dead.
01:52:28.000I found that quote to be applicable to biological war, not nuclear war.
01:52:33.000But biological war is very, very sinister because of the malevolent nature involved.
01:52:43.000And when I found a document in the Defense Department's declassified documents about a threat spectrum of WMD, that was sort of the icing on the cake.
01:53:46.000If the attention could be brought on how dangerous these labs are and how dangerous it is that people may be doing genetic engineering under the guise of prophylactic engineering when in fact they're doing really dangerous things.
01:54:02.000If you have a treaty outlawing that and everybody's agreeing to allow for transparency, that's what treaties really do.
01:54:55.000Like here, I begin the book with an explosion at the Vector Lab, Russia's BSL-4 lab in Siberia, where there is an accident and then the pathogen gets out.
01:55:06.000And the reason I do that is because there actually was an explosion at the Vector Lab in 2019.
01:55:12.000And it was in a building that nothing got out.
01:55:16.000But what the subject matter experts told me was that in 2019, we, the Americans, had friends, had a friendly relationship with scientists, Russian scientists in Vector.
01:55:29.000So when it happened, everyone was on the phone, not just the red phone at the State Department, but their own.
01:55:36.000Phone or WhatsApp saying to the scientist, Hey, what's the skinny over there?
01:55:42.000there, you know, and you could kind of get a sense of the level of danger.
01:55:49.000Because in the event of an accident, you could contain something in 24 hours.
01:55:56.000But if nobody's talking, there's no containment.
01:55:59.000And the situation right now with America just like pulling back from, you know, essentially its allies and from with a real de-emphasis, I certainly feel, on diplomacy.
01:56:13.000That opens up a really dangerous situation when you're not talking to anyone in the event of an accident.
01:56:21.000Do you think that they're going to make any changes based on what you wrote about?
01:56:27.000Did you get a sense of that, that they're willing to make changes?
01:56:31.000Those were some of the discussions, and I'll be more at the Senate.
01:56:35.000I mean, one of the issues – this is where nuclear and bio kind of could align, I was told, in terms of future treaties, right?
01:56:44.000So one of the – concepts on the table if we get into a new nuclear treaty is something called no first use, NFU.
01:56:54.000And America has never agreed to say it will never use nuclear weapons first.
01:57:12.000China, however, has said, we will, China has declared NFU, no first use.
01:57:21.000So given what happened in COVID in China, a situation could be imagined whereby a treaty involving weapons of mass destruction, nuclear and bio, could entwine somehow.
01:57:36.000Like, oh, these are the two greatest threats.
01:57:39.000These are the two greatest existential extinction level threats, potentially, that concern all of us.
01:57:46.000So let's get into a treaty that involves both of these weapons of mass destruction.
01:57:52.000China, you have said no first use on nuclear.
01:57:58.000How about, you see, and then things become a bit of an exchange.
01:58:01.000And so that's where you can get information.
01:58:08.000Maybe the public isn't going to learn the in and outs immediately, but we might learn later.
01:58:17.000It's, like I said, you always freak me out.
01:58:20.000Every time I talk to you, it's like some new thing that I have to think about for months on end.
01:58:26.000I wanted to talk to you about your Area 51 book because, in the time since you released that book when we first talked, a lot has changed.
01:58:34.000And, you know, what is your take on all these, you know, UAP disclosure videos and leaks and the things that the government has trickled out slowly?
01:58:45.000Most of the people in the UFO community are very, like I say, the UFO community with air quotes are very unsatisfied by that stuff.
01:59:27.000My position has never changed despite all the stuff that has come out, because my perspective is limited to my experience writing the Area 51 book and knowing and talking to firsthand people who were really clear with me.
01:59:44.000And I looked at the documents about the CIA's deception campaign, starting in the 1950s with the U-2, to use the UFO phenomena which was just taking off in the 50s as cover for U-2 flights.
02:00:00.000And then later the A-12 Oxcar flights.
02:00:03.000So, you know, Colonel Slater, who ran Area 51, would tell me about, you know, they would run a U-2, which was flying at 70,000 feet.
02:00:13.000At the time, nothing could fly at 70,000 feet.
02:00:41.000But I am aware of that use of the phenomena as cover for the CIA.
02:00:50.000And that led to a lot of research and reporting and other information for me about how the CIA uses deception campaigns.
02:00:58.000And so I have never changed my position on that.
02:01:02.000I also have a lot more information, which is probably a whole other podcast about all that reporting I did.
02:01:09.000But maybe the best analogy for me, and listen, I never, I know a lot of the people in that UFO community.
02:01:16.000I've had many conversations with everyone from Jacques Valet to Hal Putoff.
02:01:21.000But for me personally, so after having taken a trip to Africa recently to study predatory animals, I got really into following trail cams on X.
02:02:09.000So I so in my algorithm, my ex algorithm, it's great because on top of like nuclear weapons and biological, I have like leopards and lions and bears, you know, and they're all still images or owls are a big one and they're incredible because they're just captured.
02:02:24.000It's like it seems like a Werner Herzog, you know, image, right?
02:02:27.000Because they're animals looking at the camera in such an incredible way.
02:02:33.000I literally just stare at them in delight.
02:02:36.000And then, of course, the algorithm gives me more and more and more.
02:03:16.000Obviously, it started off with the stealth bomber, but there's also a technology where they put an LED screen over the bottom of something, and that screen projects what's behind it.
02:03:29.000So it essentially makes it invisible, like a cloaking mechanism like the Predator had.
02:03:33.000So if that's us, if we figured out something like that, and this is something that's coming here from another dimension or another galaxy, I would imagine they could hide.
02:03:42.000I mean, to that point, I find the most interesting concept is something that Jacques Valet explained to me.
02:03:50.000This has to be a decade ago, where he said, the problem with UFOs is they're not a military problem.
02:03:58.000They're an intelligence community problem for precisely the reason you're talking about.
02:04:03.000Like, if you're actually talking about extraterrestrial beings, they're certainly going to be a lot more intelligence than us.
02:04:14.000And so his idea was that where that's where I think a lot of that idea of invisibility, and again, that's like I'm using the word poetically, comes up, right?
02:04:26.000That an extraterrestrial being would be, you know, it wouldn't be visible to our spectrum.
02:04:34.000It's not like hardware, like military hardware.
02:05:05.000And, you know, I've got all these other serious interests.
02:05:08.000But I do call up people I know who might have a more interesting take than me, who do not have the horse in the race of absolutely being convinced that aliens are among us.
02:05:21.000So I would, for example, I'll call up fighter pilots and talk to them, or I'll talk to someone, an astronaut.
02:05:27.000who is on the ISS, Jeff Ashby, who's married to my cousin Mary.
02:05:33.000And it's interesting to hear them talk about the possibility.
02:05:41.000So I think to your point, and these are people who do look at the objects more, also sometimes from their military training background.
02:05:50.000And I will say that there has been a shift from 15, 18 years ago when I first wrote Area 51 or was reporting it, where it was definitely like a stigmatized subject.
02:06:02.000to a lot of really legitimate thinker people that didn't have an opinion about it before being more open to the idea.
02:06:10.000And that kind of thing I find really interesting.
02:06:12.000Those are conversations I like having.
02:06:14.000Well, that really changed with the New York Times article, right?
02:06:16.000I don't know because I felt like that article was written by a lot of and interviewed a lot of people who already were very serious believers.
02:06:25.000Yes, but it was in the New York Times.
02:06:28.000That was the difference is that the New York Times was taking it seriously.
02:06:31.000People that were, you know, not online, going through 4chan or Reddit or whatever, looking for weird, obscure stories.
02:06:41.000These people were confronted with it in The Gray Lady.
02:06:44.000So they're reading this, you know, like super respectable newspaper, the most respectable newspaper, arguably, in the world.
02:07:14.000Changed and I'll tell you why specifically.
02:07:16.000So, in addition to being invited to the White House and the Senate last week, I was also invited to come talk to DARPA, which is like you know what DARPA is sure, which was very interesting because I wrote a book on DARPA called the Pentagon's brain 10 years ago and I couldn't get DARPA to call me back.
02:07:34.000I mean, I literally had to interview retired DARPA people and then here they are saying, would you come to a Q&A with us on your bio book?
02:07:42.000And I was like wow, times have changed and one of the things that they were Seriously worried about.
02:07:51.000But before that, they said, Would you like to come sit in on like some of the smartest people, you know, talking about situations that are coming up right now?
02:08:00.000And you can come to the unclassified part of it.
02:08:06.000And there was serious concern about AI enabled bio, right?
02:08:11.000So this seems like a digression here, but this is what I'm getting at.
02:08:14.000I'm leaning in because 10 years ago, I also would have told you DARPA, you know, is the leading.
02:08:21.000Science and technology military agency in the world, no one is more advanced.
02:08:26.000I said that with authority and I believed it.
02:08:29.000And after attending this DARPA session and listening to them talk about how concerned they are about AI enabled bio and talking about how there is talk among the six CEOs of pulling the plug on AI enabled bio,
02:08:47.000but they have to be able to get the six CEOs to agree first.
02:08:53.000It really took my breath away because I went, I am actually listening to the new reality that the CEOs of these AI companies have more power to make decisions about technology than the Department of Defense.
02:09:16.000So now that's a long-winded way of getting at your UFO question.
02:09:21.000My, like, no, if there was a threat coming into the airspace of the Defense Department, it would just not be stood for, and we would be doing something about it.
02:09:30.000Now, I'm my perspective on who's in charge is shifting a little bit.
02:09:39.000Yeah, that's a terrifying thought for a lot of people that these CEOs of these tech companies, these unelected people, have that kind of power over our society.
02:12:57.000It found the information searching through a trillion bits of data and finding that a bureaucrat by accident listed it five years ago in an earthquake emergency manual on page like 434.
02:13:17.000So I told this to Sam and then that information went away.
02:13:22.000And that's why I reported in the book.
02:13:24.000But the big takeaway is precisely your point that makes you nervous about the six CEOs of AI companies that they don't know what they don't know.
02:13:34.000Sam Altman did not know you could figure out, you could make his product find classified information.
02:13:41.000I told him I did and then it was changed.
02:13:44.000And so I took that. to a number of subject matter experts who advise the president, not just this president, but other presidents on bio.
02:13:54.000And they shared with me similar concerns.
02:13:56.000Like they go to the CEOs of these AI companies and say, I was able to make Claude do this.