The Joe Rogan Experience - August 04, 2026


JRE MMA Show #183 with Rico Verhoeven


Episode Stats


Length

2 hours and 16 minutes

Words per minute

180.4

Word count

24,709

Sentence count

2,567


Transcript

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00:00:02.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.
00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
00:00:14.000 Good to see you, champ.
00:00:15.000 Yes, sir.
00:00:16.000 We were just trying to figure out how long it's been.
00:00:17.000 What year, when was the last one we did together?
00:00:19.000 I think it was 2017.
00:00:22.000 Almost 10 years.
00:00:23.000 Or maybe it might have been 16.
00:00:23.000 Yeah.
00:00:24.000 Yeah, I think.
00:00:26.000 Yes, sir.
00:00:27.000 Was it really?
00:00:29.000 No.
00:00:31.000 Yeah, he has the data.
00:00:31.000 Yeah.
00:00:31.000 Wow.
00:00:33.000 He's got it.
00:00:37.000 Maybe we just got punched to the head a little bit too.
00:00:37.000 I was like.
00:00:40.000 A little bit.
00:00:41.000 Well, listen, man, I want to tell you that that fight with Usyk was one of the craziest things that I've ever seen in my life.
00:00:50.000 Never in my life did I think a guy who would go straight from kickboxing.
00:00:55.000 Did you have any professional boxing matches?
00:00:57.000 One.
00:00:58.000 One.
00:00:59.000 One professional.
00:01:00.000 I've been boxing for 15 years.
00:01:02.000 Of course.
00:01:02.000 Well, also, you're arguably the greatest kickboxer of all time.
00:01:06.000 Appreciate that.
00:01:06.000 Thank you.
00:01:06.000 Thank you.
00:01:07.000 And you have.
00:01:08.000 A fight with arguably the greatest boxer in the heavyweight division ever.
00:01:14.000 He's in the conversation.
00:01:15.000 100% in the conversation of the greatest boxer in the heavyweight division ever.
00:01:15.000 100%.
00:01:19.000 And you won 10 fucking rounds, man.
00:01:23.000 You won 10 rounds.
00:01:24.000 Yeah, so close to that.
00:01:25.000 I mean, I don't give a fuck what those judges were saying.
00:01:25.000 Yeah.
00:01:28.000 Those judges were trying to say it was close.
00:01:31.000 Like it was almost like you were up.
00:01:32.000 I think one of them had you up by one round.
00:01:34.000 Yeah.
00:01:35.000 And the other ones had a draw.
00:01:36.000 Yeah.
00:01:37.000 I think that's.
00:01:38.000 That's a crime.
00:01:39.000 If that went to the scorecards.
00:01:41.000 And somehow or another, you lost that decision, that would have been a crime.
00:01:45.000 A crime.
00:01:46.000 And I got to be honest.
00:01:46.000 I know.
00:01:47.000 I think, like, we're just straight jumping into it.
00:01:52.000 So, and like, I think that's the hard part of it.
00:01:57.000 Like, I don't like losing, but I don't, if it happens, it happens.
00:02:02.000 But I think that's the part that makes it even harder that it felt so unjust.
00:02:11.000 The stoppage felt unjust.
00:02:11.000 It felt unjust.
00:02:13.000 It didn't seem like it made sense.
00:02:14.000 It looked like they were looking for a way to stop the fight.
00:02:17.000 Exactly.
00:02:17.000 But next to that, like you say this as a combat sports commentator for years and you've been in the sport for so many years and all other professional boxers and commentators, etc.,
00:02:33.000 they all see the fight a certain way, like you saw it, like how I experienced it.
00:02:39.000 And then when we look at the scorecards,
00:02:43.000 We get like a totally different fight.
00:02:45.000 Like, what is going on there?
00:02:47.000 And that is for me where the toughness is of the whole experience.
00:02:55.000 Right.
00:02:55.000 It's very difficult to accept.
00:02:57.000 And if you had lost by decision, it would have been insanity.
00:03:00.000 And we've seen those insane decisions before, and I never know what's going on.
00:03:04.000 You know, I don't want to think it's corruption, but it's almost worse if it's incompetence.
00:03:09.000 If you have someone who's judging a fight, which is like the most pivotal fight, arguably, of your career.
00:03:16.000 You think about how long you've been reigning as the heavyweight champion of kickboxing for like a decade, which is crazy at the highest level.
00:03:23.000 Like, especially at the heavyweight division, it is so hard to stay at the top.
00:03:28.000 Nobody does.
00:03:29.000 Everybody's like, even in the UFC, it's like one, two fights, and then they fall off.
00:03:34.000 Yeah.
00:03:34.000 For you to be the heavyweight champion and have fucking wars like Jamal Ben Sadiq, that fight, like some of these fights that you've had, wars.
00:03:42.000 Yeah.
00:03:42.000 And to come out on top every single fucking time.
00:03:45.000 And then you have this enormous fight and you have.
00:03:45.000 Yeah.
00:03:49.000 Terrible judging.
00:03:51.000 Terrible judging.
00:03:52.000 And it's like, it's almost worse if it's incompetence because if you've got these people that don't know what they're watching and they're calling, like their eyes, their decision makes a difference about whether it's a W or an L, and it doesn't make any sense.
00:04:07.000 It's not fair.
00:04:08.000 It's not right.
00:04:09.000 I think at this point in time, they should really seriously consider having alternative scoring.
00:04:16.000 I think there should be more.
00:04:18.000 One of the things I like about Glory is that Glory has more than three judges.
00:04:22.000 What do they have, four or five?
00:04:25.000 Five.
00:04:25.000 Five, I believe.
00:04:26.000 I think five is the right number.
00:04:27.000 I think three is too few.
00:04:29.000 Because you could have two people fuck it up and one person gets it right.
00:04:33.000 But if you had two more judges, the odds are they're going to get it right too.
00:04:37.000 Usually the people that fuck it up, it's the minority.
00:04:40.000 But if you ask me, next to
00:04:45.000 us as athletes putting our health on the line, which makes it a very, very hard thing to cope with, but also for the people watching the fight, it's like.
00:04:58.000 It, like you said, it feels unjust, and I definitely feel like, especially in the time that we're in now, everybody wants transparency.
00:05:08.000 If we look at the World Cup that just finished, like even there, when something happens,
00:05:16.000 the referee is still a person, he can make like a mistake.
00:05:20.000 He can look at the foul and be like, I saw it this way, but now what they're doing, they're looking at the VAR, they're looking at the cameras, right?
00:05:28.000 And multiple people are looking at it and like, hey.
00:05:32.000 We can interpret it, the the rules like this, because this happened, we can see this and this is wrong.
00:05:40.000 So even it's going to be a card or it's going to be a penalty or whatever there is.
00:05:46.000 This is what, what's happening.
00:05:47.000 But within this situation, it's just like if if you ask me, and it's still possible it's a human being, the referee made a mistake and that is possible, but there should be people or a situation where it's like, hey, Sorry, ref, but you made a mistake.
00:06:06.000 This wasn't the right call, so we can overturn it in a second.
00:06:11.000 The only thing that's really hard to do with that subjectively is fight stoppages.
00:06:16.000 Because sometimes, at least in MMA, a referee sees things in a fighter that you might not see things watching on television or sitting at my seat as a commentator.
00:06:28.000 A referee will see a guy's eyes roll back in his head.
00:06:31.000 He'll see something that I don't see, and I'll go, oh, I thought that was a little quick.
00:06:36.000 But they're right.
00:06:37.000 On top of it, they see certain things that you might not be able to see.
00:06:41.000 Yeah, but that's the thing.
00:06:44.000 I appealed it.
00:06:45.000 I appealed it.
00:06:48.000 And everything we appealed upon, we got.
00:06:51.000 They said, like, you guys were right.
00:06:54.000 We got stopped after the bell.
00:06:55.000 Yes.
00:06:57.000 Right after the stoppage, the doctor came.
00:07:00.000 I wasn't disoriented.
00:07:02.000 I didn't have any concussion or whatever symptoms.
00:07:07.000 So everything we got, they.
00:07:10.000 They're like, no, you're right, you're right, you're right, but.
00:07:13.000 They never overturned it.
00:07:14.000 They never overturned nothing.
00:07:16.000 Also, how would they overturn it?
00:07:17.000 Would they go to the judges' scorecards?
00:07:19.000 And if they did go to the judges' scorecards, what would it be?
00:07:20.000 A majority draw?
00:07:22.000 Because if you are down or you're even on both cards and then up on one, and then did they count the knockdowns in the final round?
00:07:34.000 Because if they did, you might have lost that fight, which is even crazier.
00:07:38.000 Yeah.
00:07:39.000 But then you have something like, hey, guys, let's look at the scoring cards again.
00:07:44.000 And let other people, other judges look at the scorecards and look at the fight and score it again because it doesn't make any sense.
00:07:53.000 Here's where you know it's crazy.
00:07:54.000 It was the most competitive fight of Usyk's career as a heavyweight champion.
00:07:58.000 And they're not even talking at all about a rematch.
00:08:00.000 No.
00:08:01.000 That's kind of crazy, right?
00:08:03.000 Isn't that kind of crazy?
00:08:03.000 They're saying Deontay Wilder, which all love to Deontay.
00:08:07.000 But Deontay is not Deontay Wilder of 2019.
00:08:11.000 No.
00:08:11.000 He's a different guy now.
00:08:13.000 That's a good thing that you just brought that up because before this fight, you heard the whole conversation.
00:08:20.000 Okay, we're going to do Rico.
00:08:23.000 After that, I want to fight the winner of Dubois Wardley.
00:08:26.000 And after that, I want to fight Tyson Fury again.
00:08:29.000 Right.
00:08:32.000 The other two are not in the conversation anymore.
00:08:34.000 So without taking too much credit for it, I think with this fight, he saw, hmm, this was a little harder than I expected.
00:08:44.000 So let's.
00:08:46.000 Take it.
00:08:47.000 Let's take a different route.
00:08:48.000 And for me, I don't want a rematch just to have the rematch.
00:08:53.000 I would like the rematch because it makes sense.
00:08:56.000 There's a story within this rematch.
00:08:58.000 It's huge.
00:08:59.000 And it's something that it is unfinished business.
00:09:03.000 Yes.
00:09:04.000 It's a rocky story, a real life rocky story.
00:09:06.000 100%.
00:09:07.000 And that's why for me, where I'm looking at now, I'm like in the fall of my, or maybe in the winter of my career as an athlete.
00:09:15.000 And I just want to do.
00:09:16.000 Big fights that make sense, and then you're like, Ooh, this is what I want to see.
00:09:21.000 Not only that, as a promoter, what makes more sense than that fight?
00:09:25.000 Yeah.
00:09:26.000 The Deontay Wilder fight, again, all respect to Deontay.
00:09:28.000 I love that guy.
00:09:29.000 He's one of the greatest knockouters in the history of the heavyweight division.
00:09:32.000 He's not the same guy.
00:09:33.000 No.
00:09:34.000 He's not the same guy.
00:09:35.000 For whatever reason, it happens to everybody, right?
00:09:38.000 I think he's 40 now, right?
00:09:39.000 Yeah.
00:09:39.000 It happens to everybody.
00:09:41.000 You just got off of a crazy performance.
00:09:45.000 Yeah.
00:09:46.000 And the whole world got to see it.
00:09:47.000 If any fight warrants a rematch, it's that fight.
00:09:50.000 Yeah.
00:09:51.000 That fucking rematch would be gigantic.
00:09:54.000 It would be so huge.
00:09:55.000 It's the ultimate Rocky story.
00:09:57.000 I was watching that fight on the edge of my seat.
00:10:00.000 Oh, I love it.
00:10:01.000 The fight starts.
00:10:02.000 I'm like, how's this going to go down?
00:10:03.000 How's this going to go down?
00:10:04.000 I'm like, whoa.
00:10:05.000 First of all, I'm like, holy shit, Rico's fucking huge.
00:10:08.000 You realize how big you are.
00:10:10.000 And, you know, Usyk is a cruiserweight.
00:10:12.000 He's a cruiserweight to put on weights.
00:10:14.000 Yeah, he's a build on cruiser, yeah.
00:10:15.000 He could still make cruiser.
00:10:17.000 If he wanted to, if he wanted to get really lean, he could still make cruiser easily.
00:10:20.000 You're way bigger than him.
00:10:22.000 I'm like, that's a giant factor.
00:10:24.000 And then it's your experience, your world championship level experience.
00:10:27.000 You've been in so many big fights.
00:10:30.000 100%.
00:10:30.000 You look so calm and so relaxed and so in the moment.
00:10:34.000 And I was like, holy shit, he might pull it off.
00:10:37.000 And then it got into like the third, fourth, and fifth round.
00:10:39.000 I'm like, I don't see this changing.
00:10:41.000 I'm like, this is crazy.
00:10:42.000 It was so funny if you hear the commentators, they were like, okay, Rico's moving a lot and he's fainting and he's doing this and he's doing that.
00:10:50.000 But how long can he keep this up?
00:10:52.000 Well, they don't know about your cardio.
00:10:53.000 Exactly.
00:10:54.000 There was one commentator that also commentated for Glory.
00:10:59.000 Well, Alistair.
00:11:00.000 Alistair was there.
00:11:01.000 Yeah, he was also there.
00:11:02.000 But the commentator for Glory that he knew, like, that cardio wise, I live in the gym.
00:11:09.000 That's what it is.
00:11:10.000 And you know as well, like, I love this.
00:11:13.000 So I'm never going to lose on cardio because then I lose for myself.
00:11:19.000 No, you're an anomaly in terms of like 260 pound men.
00:11:23.000 There's very few guys that are as big as you that push a pace like you did.
00:11:26.000 So I wasn't, when they were saying that, I was like, you guys don't understand what you're seeing here.
00:11:31.000 He's going to be able to do this all night long.
00:11:33.000 And credit to Usyk for finally catching you and rocking you, but the fight was stopped too quickly.
00:11:41.000 It just was.
00:11:42.000 It was 100%.
00:11:43.000 You were still okay.
00:11:44.000 You got in a world championship fight that's that close.
00:11:48.000 Not even really that close.
00:11:50.000 You were that far ahead.
00:11:51.000 You got to give someone a chance.
00:11:53.000 Yeah, but let's reverse it.
00:11:56.000 Let's reverse it.
00:11:57.000 What if he was in this position?
00:11:59.000 There's no way they would stop that fight.
00:12:01.000 Look, it's either incompetence or corruption.
00:12:01.000 No way.
00:12:04.000 And I tend to think corruption.
00:12:06.000 This is like.
00:12:07.000 I think these guys want to keep judging fights and they want the favor of the promoters, and the money is in Usyk.
00:12:14.000 Usyk is a huge name.
00:12:16.000 He's their big star in the heavyweight division.
00:12:19.000 They don't want a guy coming in from a different sport.
00:12:24.000 One professional boxer.
00:12:26.000 Exactly.
00:12:27.000 And making the biggest upset in boxing history.
00:12:31.000 That would be pretty crazy.
00:12:33.000 It really almost was the biggest upset in boxing history.
00:12:36.000 I mean, it was crazy.
00:12:37.000 It was really crazy to watch, man.
00:12:39.000 But you were the perfect guy to do it because of the pace thing.
00:12:43.000 Because of the fact that you are so big and you can push that insane pace and keep it up for the 12 hours.
00:12:48.000 And also, game plan wise, we were so smart on the game plan.
00:12:52.000 We did something that he has not seen before, that he has not experienced before.
00:12:58.000 Even though he fought the best boxers in the world.
00:13:01.000 But all the boxers, what they were trying to do is outbox the heavyweight boxers, were trying to outbox a cruiserweight.
00:13:09.000 How in the hell are you going to do that?
00:13:12.000 He's lighter, he's smaller, and he's faster.
00:13:16.000 So, how are you going to outbox him?
00:13:17.000 And he's super technical.
00:13:18.000 Exactly.
00:13:18.000 So, how are you going to outbox him?
00:13:21.000 You just got to have a super strong game plan, and that's what we had.
00:13:25.000 So, when you looked at it, when you first got the offer, first of all, how far out did you get the offer?
00:13:30.000 How far out away from the fight?
00:13:32.000 How much time did you have to prepare?
00:13:34.000 Well, do you know the story how I got into this whole thing?
00:13:40.000 No.
00:13:40.000 Okay.
00:13:40.000 No.
00:13:41.000 It's a crazy story.
00:13:43.000 Okay, let me tell you.
00:13:44.000 So.
00:13:45.000 It all started with the Canelo Crawford fight.
00:13:50.000 And Jason Statham is a good friend of mine.
00:13:53.000 And I saw he was in Vegas for that fight.
00:13:56.000 So I texted him.
00:13:57.000 He's like, yo, you were there for that fight?
00:13:59.000 Yeah, this is going to be great.
00:13:59.000 Oh, my God.
00:14:00.000 So we went back and forth.
00:14:02.000 It's like, yeah, bro.
00:14:04.000 So he told me, brother, you need to be in boxing because he was at the tournament when they did the eight-man tournament a few years ago.
00:14:11.000 And so he comes to my fights.
00:14:13.000 And he's like, oh, you got to be in here.
00:14:16.000 You got to kill these guys.
00:14:18.000 I said, yeah.
00:14:19.000 Yeah, I think I could do pretty good.
00:14:21.000 He's like, you know what?
00:14:23.000 I'm going to throw it out there and let's see what happens.
00:14:26.000 Okay, so that was, let me see, there was Vegas time during the day.
00:14:30.000 So Amsterdam time, it was night time.
00:14:33.000 So the next morning, I'm on the treadmill.
00:14:36.000 I'm running.
00:14:37.000 The phone rang.
00:14:39.000 Jason said, yo, bro, I'm on the treadmill.
00:14:41.000 Let me call you back.
00:14:43.000 Listen, I put your name out there.
00:14:45.000 I showed your videos and they're going crazy.
00:14:47.000 They want you.
00:14:49.000 I jumped off.
00:14:50.000 I was like, what do you mean?
00:14:51.000 They said, they want to do something.
00:14:53.000 They're gonna call you.
00:14:53.000 I gave them your contact, like okay, so that's that's how it started.
00:15:00.000 A few days later they call me Rico.
00:15:02.000 We want you to fight blah blah.
00:15:04.000 We love what you do and we want you to fight Anthony Joshua.
00:15:08.000 So I'm like okay, let's go, I'm ready for this opportunity.
00:15:13.000 But I was on the set of Roadhouse 2 so there was like, oh shit, now we gotta combine everything.
00:15:20.000 I got my trainer coming in like during, Yeah,
00:15:23.000 during takes and like, okay, we do some pad work.
00:15:26.000 And then finally, we were supposed to fight in February.
00:15:31.000 So I think the deal came around October, October, November.
00:15:35.000 So I had like around 10, 10 good weeks to train.
00:15:39.000 And then finally, I finish off the movie in December.
00:15:46.000 But in between, Joshua got the offer to fight Jake Paul for a crazy amount of money.
00:15:53.000 Of course, I'm going to do that.
00:15:55.000 And then after that, I'm going to do the Rico fight.
00:15:58.000 Perfect.
00:15:59.000 Okay, he does the Jake Paul fight.
00:16:01.000 Well, that went like how it went.
00:16:03.000 And then they reached out like, can we push the fight a little bit instead of February to March?
00:16:09.000 Like, I'm good.
00:16:10.000 The more time I get, the better.
00:16:12.000 Right, so to train, to transition into boxing.
00:16:15.000 So that happened.
00:16:17.000 And then the end of the year, like two weeks later, that tragic accident happens.
00:16:22.000 Yeah, we're talking about Anthony Joshua.
00:16:25.000 He was in Africa.
00:16:26.000 Terrible car accident.
00:16:27.000 Yeah, killed two of his friends.
00:16:28.000 Yeah, terrible.
00:16:29.000 So that derailed that whole situation.
00:16:33.000 But I had a whole training plan scheduled.
00:16:35.000 I was going to Spain to train there for a month.
00:16:38.000 But I didn't know what was going to happen.
00:16:40.000 So I just did what I had to do and I just continued training.
00:16:44.000 So I was in Spain training, training, training.
00:16:46.000 And then at the end of that training camp, we were talking about it.
00:16:51.000 And they said, like, yeah, we don't think, and also with this manager, Eddie Hearn, like, I don't know if he's going to be back soon.
00:16:58.000 So, what do you want to do?
00:17:00.000 You want to wait or you want to fight?
00:17:02.000 Like, I'm already training, so I would like to fight somebody, but we don't know what makes sense.
00:17:07.000 No, let's think about it.
00:17:09.000 So, we thought about it.
00:17:10.000 They thought about it.
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00:17:41.000 And then we were talking about hey, what about Usyk?
00:17:44.000 Was it your idea?
00:17:44.000 Does that make sense?
00:17:45.000 Yeah, it was our idea.
00:17:47.000 I'm like, yeah, that makes sense.
00:17:48.000 Why not?
00:17:49.000 Because he's the top dog.
00:17:51.000 He's like the undisputed kickboxing champion versus the undisputed boxing champion.
00:17:55.000 Like, there's a story there.
00:17:57.000 Yeah.
00:17:58.000 It's like, let's just throw it out there and let's see what they say.
00:18:01.000 Okay, pick up the phone call them.
00:18:04.000 Yeah, yeah guys.
00:18:05.000 Yeah We have an idea so I pitched him the whole idea undisputed versus undisputed Silence.
00:18:12.000 Oh my god.
00:18:13.000 What did I just do?
00:18:16.000 Then the first thing I hear back We love it.
00:18:22.000 Whoa I said okay.
00:18:25.000 What does that mean?
00:18:27.000 What does that mean?
00:18:29.000 So they said, you know what?
00:18:32.000 We're going to talk to Usyk's team and we're going to come back to you.
00:18:36.000 And then in two weeks, they went to Usyk.
00:18:39.000 Usyk loved the idea as well.
00:18:40.000 So again, big shout out to him for taking that fight as well because he had hundreds of options and he took this fight outside the box.
00:18:50.000 So I love it also to His Excellency Turkey El-Ashaykh for setting this whole thing up.
00:18:56.000 Oh, he has set up so many great fights.
00:18:57.000 He's so important to boxing.
00:19:00.000 Super much respect for both of them and thankful also to Jason of course for setting this whole thing up Jason yeah and getting me into it.
00:19:07.000 Yeah getting me into the conversation And then like so that was after two weeks and then at two weeks later we we were on a facetime call for like a minute and Yeah,
00:19:19.000 after that they got it done like and then and then then afterwards they said like oh, it's gonna be a title fight and then the whole world went crazy of course like oh my god, how is this guy gonna go for a world title fight?
00:19:29.000 It doesn't make any sense.
00:19:31.000 I was just like let's go.
00:19:32.000 We're gonna shock the world Well, you know, it's not like you hadn't had a lifetime of striking.
00:19:38.000 It's only the difference is removing the kicks.
00:19:40.000 Yeah, but the thing is, like the boxing fans, the straight up boxing fans, they're not too much into MMA and they're definitely not into kickboxing.
00:19:50.000 So they had no clue.
00:19:51.000 Right.
00:19:52.000 They had no clue of, like, who is this guy?
00:19:56.000 What did he do?
00:19:57.000 And that's why also the WBC, they also had their Muay Thai department.
00:20:01.000 So for them, it made sense.
00:20:03.000 It's like, hey, Rico with his credentials and what he did into.
00:20:06.000 In kickboxing, it makes sense to make it a world championship fight, but we just have to tell the people.
00:20:13.000 Well, you know, it drives me nuts as a fan of combat sports, as also a giant fan of kickboxing.
00:20:20.000 Kickboxing does not get the love that it deserves in America.
00:20:25.000 It doesn't make any sense because in MMA, the casual fans love stand up, and when fights go to the ground, they boo.
00:20:33.000 So, like, it makes no sense to me how you have boxing huge.
00:20:39.000 MMA huge, kickboxing almost non existent in America.
00:20:43.000 There's no big kickboxing leagues.
00:20:45.000 No, but maybe because they want to see their own people win, maybe?
00:20:51.000 No.
00:20:51.000 No, it just hasn't been promoted, right?
00:20:53.000 It doesn't make any sense.
00:20:54.000 It makes no sense because their own people don't win in MMA.
00:20:57.000 I mean, there's very few American champions.
00:20:59.000 There's Justin Gaetje and Sean Strickland.
00:21:02.000 Yeah, but at least they're really competitive.
00:21:04.000 And in kickboxing, they're.
00:21:06.000 Right, that's true, but we don't care, honestly, in MMA, no.
00:21:10.000 I mean, Alex Pereira was the biggest.
00:21:13.000 Star in the sport.
00:21:14.000 It's probably still is.
00:21:15.000 Yeah, exactly.
00:21:17.000 But Brazilian doesn't speak English at all, only speaks Portuguese and whatever other language is, tribal language.
00:21:22.000 And so then you have Islam Akachev, who's fighting next weekend.
00:21:26.000 Huge star.
00:21:27.000 You know, from Dagestan.
00:21:28.000 No one in America, all they care are you the baddest motherfucker on earth.
00:21:33.000 That's all they care.
00:21:34.000 And I really genuinely believe that if someone came along, like, I really wish Zufa would do it.
00:21:39.000 Because they're doing it with boxing.
00:21:40.000 They should do it with kickboxing.
00:21:42.000 Because kickboxing or Muay Thai, whichever they decide, You know, I think it is the most exciting stand up sport in the world.
00:21:49.000 I don't think it's even close.
00:21:50.000 100%.
00:21:51.000 I love Glory.
00:21:52.000 I fucking watch it all the time.
00:21:53.000 I watch all the events.
00:21:54.000 It's so exciting, man.
00:21:56.000 It's so fun.
00:21:57.000 And the fights are so chaotic.
00:21:59.000 And if you're a fan of.
00:22:01.000 It's brutal and technical at the same time.
00:22:01.000 It's brutal.
00:22:04.000 I mean, some of the most amazing fights.
00:22:06.000 I mean, that's how I knew about Pereira, was because I was such a huge fan of Glory.
00:22:09.000 Yeah.
00:22:10.000 When he came over to the UFC, I was like, everyone's fucked.
00:22:13.000 I'm like, you don't understand.
00:22:15.000 Everyone's fucked.
00:22:15.000 This guy's different, man.
00:22:17.000 Yeah, he is.
00:22:17.000 He's different.
00:22:18.000 He's amazing.
00:22:18.000 But it was because I knew him so much from kickboxing, and he was so exciting in kickboxing.
00:22:23.000 Like, kickboxing should be huge in America.
00:22:26.000 It really should be.
00:22:26.000 It should be.
00:22:27.000 Yeah, 100%.
00:22:28.000 100%.
00:22:29.000 And it's a part of MMA.
00:22:31.000 So I think a lot of guys.
00:22:32.000 A giant part of MMA.
00:22:34.000 The most exciting part of MMA is the kickboxing, for sure.
00:22:38.000 Yeah, 100%.
00:22:39.000 100%.
00:22:39.000 Makes no sense.
00:22:41.000 It is an untapped market.
00:22:43.000 If somebody figured it out and dove in and made it, it would be gigantic.
00:22:48.000 It would have to be like the UFC, though, because you have to have the kind of publicity machine, the kind of media machine that the UFC has to build up the stories and show these guys and show all the champions.
00:23:00.000 100%.
00:23:01.000 But I think that's.
00:23:03.000 In every big fight and every big organization, is where the strength is the storytelling.
00:23:08.000 Yes.
00:23:09.000 That is where I think, and also, if you ask me, like when I was in Glory, where it lacked on experience, like the storytelling.
00:23:19.000 Right.
00:23:20.000 Where does this guy come from?
00:23:21.000 What is his background?
00:23:22.000 And like, you want to get to know the person instead of just like the guy that throws punches and kicks.
00:23:27.000 Exactly.
00:23:28.000 The UFC does an awesome job with that.
00:23:30.000 They have a whole series called Embedded.
00:23:32.000 So, like, next week, when the Ian Gary, Islam Makachev fight takes place.
00:23:36.000 Yeah.
00:23:37.000 They're going to have one on Monday.
00:23:39.000 So you get up on Monday morning, it'll be there on YouTube, and everybody will watch it.
00:23:43.000 And then you're like, oh shit, you watch that one.
00:23:45.000 Then you watch the one on Tuesday.
00:23:46.000 You see them training, you see them eating, you see them in a sauna cutting weight.
00:23:50.000 You see them doing all their press stuff.
00:23:52.000 You see them, and you get hyped, man.
00:23:54.000 You get hyped.
00:23:55.000 Exactly, but you get drawn into, like, oh, this is the guy behind the fighter.
00:24:00.000 Exactly.
00:24:00.000 And I think that's so much more interesting.
00:24:01.000 And then they have the countdown show, which is an hour.
00:24:04.000 The countdown show is like highly produced and all this different stuff interviews and conversations with their family.
00:24:10.000 It's fucking amazing.
00:24:11.000 And it just gets you so jazzed up for the fight.
00:24:14.000 If the UFC did something like that with kickboxing, I think it would be gigantic.
00:24:18.000 You know, they tried Glory in America for a while, and it was doing pretty good on Spike TV, remember?
00:24:22.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:24:23.000 They had the last man standing tournament in Los Angeles.
00:24:25.000 I went to that.
00:24:25.000 Yeah.
00:24:26.000 It was awesome.
00:24:27.000 It's just, it just never fucking caught on.
00:24:30.000 No.
00:24:31.000 It was hard.
00:24:32.000 It was, yeah, it's too bad.
00:24:33.000 So, and then after the last few years, we were just in Europe, more in the Netherlands.
00:24:37.000 That's where we, yeah, in Glory.
00:24:39.000 One is doing a good job with kickboxing.
00:24:42.000 One FC, and I don't know.
00:24:44.000 You don't know about them?
00:24:45.000 No, yeah, I know about them, but I don't know about it.
00:24:47.000 No, I don't know if they're doing good or not.
00:24:48.000 I don't know if they're doing good or not.
00:24:49.000 They're usually in the lighter weight divisions because they get a lot of guys from Thailand and a lot of guys from Japan.
00:24:55.000 Yeah, they're more Asian based, right?
00:24:57.000 Yes, yes, more Asian based, but they have a lot of stand up fights now.
00:25:01.000 A lot of like either they have Muay Thai with MMA gloves on.
00:25:06.000 Yeah, in a cage, brutal.
00:25:08.000 And then they're also having kickboxing in a cage.
00:25:11.000 Nice.
00:25:12.000 And kickboxing in a ring.
00:25:13.000 They mix it up between ring and ring.
00:25:14.000 Okay, that's great.
00:25:15.000 Yeah, I mean.
00:25:16.000 I personally think the ring is better.
00:25:19.000 I really do.
00:25:20.000 Because I think that there's a lot of weird stuff with the cage.
00:25:23.000 You know, like the cage, especially with MMA, I don't like it because you could use it to get back up.
00:25:30.000 Yeah.
00:25:30.000 You could, like, get your back against it and pull yourself back up.
00:25:33.000 You could also use it to take people down.
00:25:35.000 It's harder to take people down with the ring, I believe.
00:25:38.000 Yeah, 100%.
00:25:39.000 100%.
00:25:40.000 Yeah, so that's why it's good for me now.
00:25:43.000 Like, I, yeah.
00:25:45.000 Well, I know there was a talk about you fighting Derrick Lewis.
00:25:48.000 Yeah.
00:25:49.000 I remember that.
00:25:50.000 And then you got this.
00:25:51.000 The offer to box, and it was so much money.
00:25:53.000 Yeah, the Joshua fight.
00:25:54.000 Yeah.
00:25:54.000 Oh, that's right.
00:25:55.000 Yeah, that's where it started.
00:25:57.000 So, yeah, so we were in talks because I was a free agent.
00:26:02.000 I vacated the belt.
00:26:03.000 How many MMA fights do you have?
00:26:04.000 At least one.
00:26:05.000 One.
00:26:06.000 Yeah, just one.
00:26:07.000 I did some grappling years ago, but I just had one professional MMA fight.
00:26:12.000 So, after that, vacating my belt, I was a free agent.
00:26:15.000 So we were like, okay, let's dip our toes in different water.
00:26:20.000 Let's see.
00:26:21.000 Yeah, let's see what's on the landscape now.
00:26:24.000 Why did you decide to vacate the belt?
00:26:25.000 Because you had done everything you needed to do.
00:26:27.000 You cleaned out the division.
00:26:28.000 I did it all.
00:26:29.000 So I was like, I wanted it to make sense.
00:26:34.000 And first, we talked within the organization of like, hey, I'm looking to do big stuff, different stuff.
00:26:42.000 So like crossover events, because that was getting more and more talked about, like the big crossovers.
00:26:49.000 And I think, yeah, in my opinion, I am one of the baddest men on the planet.
00:26:53.000 So it made sense to do it.
00:26:56.000 But then, yeah, within.
00:26:58.000 The organization, management, wrong management.
00:27:01.000 Like, we just, yeah, didn't get it.
00:27:04.000 We just didn't get to a place where it worked out.
00:27:06.000 So I was like, okay, let me just leave it then.
00:27:09.000 So I left it.
00:27:11.000 And then we talked with UFC to see, yeah, what was going on there.
00:27:15.000 But then, yeah, I got the other offer and it made more sense.
00:27:19.000 Now, was the other offer a one contract fight, a one fight contract?
00:27:23.000 So you're free again?
00:27:24.000 I'm a free agent again.
00:27:25.000 Oh, wow.
00:27:26.000 So, and that's why.
00:27:27.000 Was there any conversation at all about a rematch?
00:27:31.000 Yeah, right away.
00:27:33.000 His Excellency came into the ring and he said, you're going to fight this guy again.
00:27:39.000 That's the first thing he said.
00:27:41.000 But Kabbalah also came into the ring.
00:27:44.000 Ajit Kabbalah, the WBC interim champion and now the champion because Usyk vacated the belt as well.
00:27:52.000 So he also wanted his shot.
00:27:55.000 So there was like a lot of talk.
00:27:56.000 And like at that moment, I was there, but it was just like.
00:28:01.000 I don't know.
00:28:02.000 Chaos.
00:28:02.000 Yeah, chaos.
00:28:03.000 And for me, I was just like, wow, did this.
00:28:05.000 They just fucked it.
00:28:06.000 Yeah, this really just happened.
00:28:08.000 And it took me like at least six weeks before I watched the fight back for the very first time after the fight.
00:28:16.000 Wow.
00:28:17.000 Because it still hurts.
00:28:22.000 So, yeah, so now I'm like a free agent and we get so many offers.
00:28:28.000 What is it like watching it and watching the fight get stopped after the bell?
00:28:32.000 It still hurts.
00:28:34.000 it still hurts i'm like wow what what did you what did you want want me to do you want me to move around you want me to to punch back or whatever for me like you know i've been in in trouble multiple times within my world title kickboxing fights yeah i was behind multiple times and i still came on came out on top so
00:28:58.000 there was for me there's no conversation in like okay could he continue is he gonna continue i never stop they don't know you that's the other thing is that the Conditioning thing.
00:29:09.000 Like, your conditioning is so good.
00:29:11.000 You bounce back so quick.
00:29:13.000 And there's been so many times where guys try to empty the tank to put you out.
00:29:16.000 Yeah.
00:29:16.000 And you're not going nowhere.
00:29:17.000 No.
00:29:18.000 And it was just a few seconds.
00:29:20.000 And a referee should know that.
00:29:21.000 So, next to that, like, with all the experience you know that I have within the combat sports, like, it's just a few seconds.
00:29:29.000 Let it go.
00:29:30.000 And let me at least give me the opportunity and give the fans the opportunity to see that 12th round.
00:29:37.000 So.
00:29:37.000 Right.
00:29:38.000 Oh, it would have been so exciting.
00:29:39.000 Yeah.
00:29:40.000 But.
00:29:40.000 Oh, my God.
00:29:41.000 Also, looking now, looking back at it, because there was also open scoring.
00:29:46.000 And I love open scoring because within that gives you the right position and gives the fighters the position like, okay, where are we standing within this fight?
00:29:59.000 But now looking back at the fight after eight rounds, because after every four rounds, we hear what the scoring is.
00:30:05.000 After eight rounds, my trainer Peter Fury says, okay, we got to really start winning these rounds now.
00:30:14.000 I was like, am I hearing this right?
00:30:18.000 I feel like I'm already winning these rounds.
00:30:21.000 He said, no, we're equal.
00:30:22.000 We're equal on the scorecards after eight rounds.
00:30:25.000 So I was like, okay, so in the ninth round, I even the commentators were like, what?
00:30:30.000 Yeah, exactly.
00:30:32.000 But then I really started pushing even more, but I was pushing already.
00:30:35.000 But if you know you're like eight or seven rounds ahead and you feel like you're getting tired the last two or three rounds, just move around.
00:30:45.000 Yeah, tip tap and maybe you lose it.
00:30:48.000 Maybe it's a draw or whatever.
00:30:49.000 And then still you win because you were like five rounds ahead.
00:30:53.000 then it doesn't make any sense.
00:30:54.000 But now we had to keep pushing.
00:30:57.000 And then, oh, it's like walking straight into that uppercut.
00:31:01.000 It's like, oh, it still gets me.
00:31:04.000 When I look back at it, it's like, oh.
00:31:06.000 And then that last part, that's what I find so hard.
00:31:10.000 And I feel like I need to work on that as a human being, for myself, as a person.
00:31:18.000 I can only look at that, at that one mistake I felt I made at the end because I gave them the opportunity to pull this card.
00:31:29.000 That's how it feels for me.
00:31:31.000 Mistake being that you push too hard?
00:31:34.000 Yeah, the mistake, like there was one mistake that I made running into that uppercut, like walking straight in, swinging.
00:31:41.000 And we said in the whole prep, I tried that a few times, like, oh, that's dangerous.
00:31:47.000 Don't do that with Usyk.
00:31:48.000 And still, for whatever reason, I did that at that exact moment.
00:31:53.000 And that's what frustrates me if I look back at it.
00:31:59.000 Because I'm not looking at what he did well because that uppercut was amazing.
00:32:05.000 I'm just looking at what I'm responsible for, and I'm responsible for myself.
00:32:10.000 And I gave them now this opportunity by making that mistake.
00:32:14.000 And that's like, oh, so hard to get over that for myself.
00:32:18.000 But I need to work on that because I had the same with the Jamal Ben Sadiq fight with the eye.
00:32:23.000 Everybody's like, oh, Rico, you showed them, you're never giving up.
00:32:26.000 But I know I got that.
00:32:28.000 I know I got that from the inside, but I never have to show that because the skill set is so.
00:32:34.000 So big that I don't get in trouble.
00:32:38.000 So I don't have to show that I can continue and I'm never giving up.
00:32:42.000 But I can only look at that, oh, that one mistake.
00:32:46.000 Why did I do that?
00:32:47.000 Then I get the eye, like, you're so stupid.
00:32:50.000 So I can only look at that.
00:32:52.000 And that guy fucking punches hard.
00:32:54.000 And he's a big fella.
00:32:54.000 Yeah.
00:32:56.000 Yeah, he's bigger than I am.
00:32:57.000 Jamal Ben Sadiq is huge.
00:32:59.000 Powerful, powerful, powerful.
00:33:00.000 So that's hard for me.
00:33:03.000 But I got to work on that for myself.
00:33:05.000 Yeah, but that's also why you're great.
00:33:08.000 Yeah, I mean, you have to hate mistakes.
00:33:12.000 Hate them.
00:33:13.000 Like they're poison.
00:33:14.000 Yeah, they are.
00:33:17.000 Yeah, they are.
00:33:18.000 But you should have seen me after the fight.
00:33:21.000 I was like a big baby.
00:33:22.000 I was crying in my hotel room like a big, big baby.
00:33:25.000 I was like, oh my God, I was so close.
00:33:27.000 I was shocking the world.
00:33:29.000 And now this happened.
00:33:31.000 It was like, oh, it hurts so bad.
00:33:33.000 It still hurts to a certain extent.
00:33:36.000 At least you could laugh at it a little bit now.
00:33:38.000 I can only imagine.
00:33:39.000 To me, watching it as a fan of yours, I was like, oh my God, he's going to fucking pull it off.
00:33:45.000 I was on the edge of my seat.
00:33:46.000 And when we're going into the ninth and tenth rounds, I was like, I don't see how Usyk can win.
00:33:50.000 And then when they started talking about the scorecards, I was like, what the fuck are they watching?
00:33:55.000 This is crazy.
00:33:56.000 They're looking at a different fight.
00:33:57.000 But that's.
00:33:58.000 So, but for me.
00:33:59.000 Either corrupt or incompetent.
00:34:00.000 Either corrupt or incompetent.
00:34:00.000 Yeah.
00:34:02.000 If I look at it now, and for us talking about it, and for you being so long into combat sports and being a commentator and doing it yourself.
00:34:12.000 Wouldn't it be something?
00:34:14.000 Wouldn't you be maybe a spokesman or a part?
00:34:17.000 Could you be a part of a way how we can make this whole judging thing and this whole transparency better?
00:34:24.000 Well, I think one way to do it is to have more judges, like Lori does.
00:34:30.000 I think five is probably the right number.
00:34:32.000 I think another thing to do is maybe have a bunch of people online that are recognized experts, like top trainers, top commentators, people that really understand the sport.
00:34:47.000 And maybe they get an app.
00:34:49.000 Maybe there's like a special app that those guys can judge on.
00:34:53.000 So you have a collective expert opinion.
00:34:56.000 And you get to look at that as well.
00:34:58.000 But that's what we had now.
00:34:59.000 Like, if you look, the professionals, the trainers, the commentators, they all saw the fight a certain way.
00:35:06.000 But the judges saw something totally different.
00:35:08.000 They were looking at a different fight for some kind of reason.
00:35:11.000 And that's crazy.
00:35:13.000 It's a problem, like we talked about.
00:35:14.000 It's either incompetence or it's corruption.
00:35:16.000 And I think it might be a little bit of both.
00:35:18.000 Yeah.
00:35:19.000 Maybe the corruption isn't even conscious, but it's like they know who the promoter wants to win.
00:35:25.000 They want Usik to win because Usik is where you can get the next Tyson Fury fight or the Anthony Joshua.
00:35:29.000 Well, not Anthony Joshua, but whoever he would decide to fight.
00:35:33.000 Yeah.
00:35:33.000 You know, again.
00:35:34.000 Yeah.
00:35:35.000 And now it's going to be Deontay Wilder, which nobody's calling for.
00:35:37.000 I don't know.
00:35:37.000 I don't know if it's going to happen.
00:35:39.000 Where is that signed?
00:35:41.000 Can you please find out if the Anthony Joshua, or excuse me, the Deontay Wilder, Alexander Usik fight is signed?
00:35:50.000 Signed because people were talking about that being, I think they were saying like December or something.
00:35:56.000 They were trying for it.
00:35:57.000 At least I know that's what I, yeah, that's what they were trying for.
00:36:00.000 But for me, like, that's why for now it's not officially signed yet.
00:36:04.000 Okay.
00:36:05.000 I'll plead to His Excellency, Turkey, Al Sheikh.
00:36:08.000 This is the fight.
00:36:09.000 But here's the question Does Usyk want that fight?
00:36:14.000 That's the question.
00:36:15.000 I don't know.
00:36:16.000 I don't think so.
00:36:17.000 A really tough fight like that fight.
00:36:20.000 And then you know, they ask you to do it again.
00:36:22.000 This is your last time out.
00:36:24.000 He's calling, I mean, this is his last fight.
00:36:27.000 Yeah, if this is the last fight and he almost lost to you and he has the potential of losing again, they'd have to entice him with, they'd have to, yeah, pull out that paper, then he's like, shrink big bags.
00:36:41.000 He's like, okay, if I lose, it is what it is.
00:36:44.000 Yeah, exactly.
00:36:45.000 No, but that's why it's so good for me now to be in this position.
00:36:49.000 I'm a free agent, we got offers from the biggest organizations.
00:36:53.000 Across the world, like after this fight, and I'm just like taking my time.
00:36:59.000 What information have they given you that's exciting?
00:37:01.000 Can you talk about them?
00:37:02.000 Not really.
00:37:03.000 No?
00:37:04.000 Not really.
00:37:04.000 Tell me afterwards.
00:37:06.000 Yeah.
00:37:06.000 I know a lot of people talked about you possibly boxing Francis and Gano or having an MMA fight with Francis and Gano.
00:37:14.000 Was that on the table?
00:37:14.000 Yeah, no.
00:37:15.000 So, to be honest, like two weeks before the Usyk fight, there was the MVP card, right?
00:37:23.000 But then.
00:37:24.000 They approached me like weeks before MVP to
00:37:30.000 MMA versus Francis.
00:37:32.000 And then I was also like right on the edge of like closing the deal with Usyk.
00:37:37.000 And so I had the two options on the table.
00:37:39.000 And yeah, to be honest, like the other, the MMA deal, like they kept on like stacking up, stacking up.
00:37:48.000 Like, Rika, it's like, ah, okay, what if we give you the.
00:37:54.000 Okay, but what if you give me the okay?
00:37:56.000 Let me look at this option again.
00:37:59.000 So, but then, yeah, I just look myself in the mirror like I respect His Excellency, and Jason gave his word, and His Excellency gave his word that they were going to do it.
00:38:10.000 And if I look at myself, I'm looking at legacy.
00:38:14.000 And that Francis Nagano fight is still going to be there after the Usyk fight.
00:38:18.000 But how crazy is that as a kickboxer coming in, fighting for a world championship within boxing and potentially winning?
00:38:28.000 Because that's how I only have one plan, and that's winning.
00:38:31.000 So that's how I went into that fight.
00:38:33.000 And we saw how that went.
00:38:36.000 Didn't you wish you could kick him?
00:38:38.000 No, not really.
00:38:39.000 Not at all?
00:38:40.000 Didn't you wish you could just.
00:38:40.000 No.
00:38:41.000 Few low kicks because Daddy's definitely not gonna make it to the end.
00:38:46.000 No, but that was so funny because everybody's like Rico, you've been kickboxing for so long, like what happens if you head kick him?
00:38:52.000 Like don't you have that feeling like like guys?
00:38:56.000 Like i've been boxing next to doing kickboxing like for 15 years or something.
00:39:02.000 I've been working with Peter Fury for so long and i'm used to this.
00:39:06.000 But I know for I think that's what made me such a good kickboxer as well that I was into boxing.
00:39:13.000 But there's a giant difference between working with a kickboxer and even being a kickboxer and fighting arguably the greatest heavyweight of all time.
00:39:20.000 100%.
00:39:21.000 Crazy.
00:39:21.000 100%.
00:39:22.000 But the crazy thing was, I think
00:39:26.000 it was around five or six.
00:39:29.000 I was like, he was jabbing me.
00:39:31.000 I was just ticking it away and I was like, bum, bum, bum.
00:39:35.000 I'm like, talking to myself in the fight, I'm like, am I out jabbing the champ?
00:39:40.000 This is crazy.
00:39:42.000 And I'm going to train my trainer, Dennis Rico.
00:39:46.000 Just keep doing what you're doing.
00:39:47.000 You're winning this fight.
00:39:48.000 Let's go.
00:39:48.000 Let's go.
00:39:49.000 Let's go.
00:39:50.000 Because he also didn't want me to take too many risks.
00:39:52.000 He's like, okay, you won this round and then continue from there.
00:39:55.000 Because that's how they were experiencing it the fight and the rounds on the side.
00:40:01.000 Well, let me ask you this.
00:40:02.000 When you first started formulating a game plan, did you watch a bunch?
00:40:07.000 I'm sure you're already a fan of Usyks.
00:40:09.000 100%.
00:40:09.000 You watch his fights.
00:40:10.000 But did you re watch them and try to find patterns?
00:40:12.000 How did you formulate this game plan?
00:40:15.000 Of course, with the.
00:40:17.000 Yeah, my trainer Peter Fury, uh, with the he's yeah, he's crazy, he's the very, very, very best at what he does.
00:40:27.000 And we were just like analyzing these fights.
00:40:30.000 Like, so first, he already had the thing in his mind, and he asked me, What do you see all these boxers do, and what they shouldn't be doing, and what do you think they should do?
00:40:44.000 So I look at it, I look at it, and I think.
00:40:48.000 It basically started with if somebody is a South Pole,
00:40:54.000 why would you stay right in front of them?
00:40:58.000 That's one thing.
00:41:00.000 And because you cannot go, if somebody is Orthodox, you move to the right.
00:41:05.000 But you cannot move to the right with a South Pole because you're walking straight into a left hand.
00:41:10.000 So why is nobody moving to the left?
00:41:14.000 Because then, as soon as you move to the left, you're walking away from that strong arm.
00:41:21.000 I think that's where we said exactly.
00:41:24.000 Which is crazy.
00:41:25.000 It's just so many people are so stuck in their patterns.
00:41:28.000 Exactly.
00:41:28.000 The way they like to move.
00:41:29.000 They like to move to their right.
00:41:31.000 Yeah.
00:41:31.000 That's what they like.
00:41:32.000 They feel good.
00:41:33.000 They want to move to their right and throw a right hand, but you're just running into that power hand.
00:41:37.000 It's just crazy that it's not just that, too.
00:41:40.000 It's also the size difference.
00:41:42.000 Like, that was one thing.
00:41:43.000 It's like you were so big in that ring that you were smothering him and you were on top of him and you were throwing those shots in tight.
00:41:50.000 Yeah, but the combination of those two getting him out of that position.
00:41:57.000 Took away so many of his tools, and then, like you said, smothering and getting into him and using my size.
00:42:04.000 Because if you ask me, like all the guys he fought are way bigger than him.
00:42:09.000 They're my size.
00:42:10.000 They're way bigger than him.
00:42:11.000 Right.
00:42:11.000 But because of the way they fought, they couldn't use their size on him.
00:42:17.000 But the way I did it, I could.
00:42:20.000 Tyson Fury did a lot.
00:42:21.000 He used his size a lot, you know, and he's a different kind of big, though.
00:42:25.000 He's big and long, where you're fucking thick.
00:42:29.000 You know, it's a different thing.
00:42:31.000 You're very lean and huge.
00:42:34.000 It's like the mass of you when you were on top of him, pushing him.
00:42:38.000 You could see that it was a factor.
00:42:39.000 It's like he was recognizing it.
00:42:41.000 But it's so hard.
00:42:42.000 Like, if you look at that fight that you just mentioned, is how are you going to get.
00:42:47.000 He tried to use his size, but how are you going to get close to him walking straight into it?
00:42:52.000 Because then he's just going to keep moving.
00:42:54.000 Right.
00:42:54.000 He's going to keep moving because he's so fast on his feet.
00:42:57.000 But that's what we try to do.
00:42:58.000 We try to be fast on our feet and move to the side and then get into it and then get close.
00:43:05.000 Because then, as soon as you.
00:43:07.000 He's a sophomore, you keep moving this way and just keep getting closer.
00:43:11.000 Somewhere.
00:43:13.000 You're going to be there.
00:43:14.000 You're going to reach him.
00:43:15.000 But it takes some time.
00:43:17.000 And I didn't think, if you look at the heavyweights, what they all want to do is they want to, bam, they want to hit maybe boom, boom, one, two.
00:43:25.000 Versus the very of arguably one of the best to have ever done it.
00:43:29.000 And then especially in a cruiserweight, how are you going to hit him in step A?
00:43:35.000 Right.
00:43:36.000 It's going to be at least step B, C, or D when you're going to hit him.
00:43:40.000 You got to have multiple plans.
00:43:42.000 Like for me, I was just throwing.
00:43:44.000 Throw throw throw throw and I know I was gonna I was the first time I was gonna hit him was maybe in punch six or whatever because then The distance is gonna be closer so I didn't even think about trying to knock his head off.
00:43:59.000 That's what I said said I'm gonna do that's what I'm gonna do I'm gonna try and knock his head off Of course, I'm gonna tell him that because that this is definitely not what we're gonna do.
00:44:08.000 I was just gonna get close right and keep keep working volume keep working volume and then finally when you're there That's the moment you're going to put in some power.
00:44:19.000 But that's like maybe punch seven or eight.
00:44:22.000 But the first three, four, you're not even going to hit.
00:44:25.000 You're just hitting air because he's too fast.
00:44:28.000 Right.
00:44:29.000 He's like a giant Lomachenko.
00:44:31.000 Exactly.
00:44:32.000 But that's how we thought about it.
00:44:33.000 Don't try and hit him in the first two or three punches.
00:44:37.000 Throw them so he has something to look at and something to think about.
00:44:42.000 And then we're going to get there.
00:44:44.000 And as soon as you get there, you smother him.
00:44:46.000 Punch him in the body.
00:44:46.000 Boom.
00:44:47.000 What heavyweight boxers have you worked with over the years?
00:44:51.000 All the top fighters.
00:44:54.000 Of course, that's how I got with Peter Fury.
00:44:55.000 I started with Tyson Fury.
00:44:59.000 I trained with Ajit Kabbalaho because he was also in that camp back then.
00:45:09.000 Yui Fury, Peter's son.
00:45:13.000 I think he's also been going up and down because of his health, but he's definitely one of the best, and we're going to see more of him.
00:45:23.000 Because, yeah, he's such a good competitor, such a good boxer as well.
00:45:28.000 Great skill set.
00:45:29.000 So, there's been a bunch of fighters that we've worked with.
00:45:33.000 That's so massive.
00:45:34.000 Because sharing all that gym time with elite guys like Tyson Fury and Kobeyev, having that kind of experience in the gym must have also been a huge confidence boost.
00:45:46.000 100%.
00:45:47.000 Especially now, this whole last thing is trying to get good South Pole fighters.
00:45:53.000 Oh my god, that's the hardest thing.
00:45:56.000 And then we had one big guy and we had one smaller guy.
00:45:56.000 The hardest thing.
00:46:02.000 It was so hard.
00:46:04.000 And then mixing that up.
00:46:06.000 So we started off with the first six with the big guy, Moses Jolly, and an amazing boxer.
00:46:16.000 But he's big.
00:46:17.000 He's big.
00:46:17.000 He's not an Usyk.
00:46:17.000 He's heavy.
00:46:18.000 He's like twice as big as Usyk.
00:46:20.000 But he's a South Pole.
00:46:22.000 So he has that power.
00:46:23.000 And we could really compete.
00:46:24.000 And then after that, we jumped in with James Branch.
00:46:29.000 And he's like 90 kilo South Pole.
00:46:34.000 So he's like, he's like throwing rapid fire punches.
00:46:39.000 So, and that change within sparring, so doing first six with one and then six with the other, oh my God, that was next level.
00:46:48.000 It was like six months of pure hard work.
00:46:53.000 Wow.
00:46:54.000 But it was so cool.
00:46:55.000 It was so cool.
00:46:56.000 And it just opened up my mind to a whole different world.
00:47:02.000 And it's for being in combat sports since I was six.
00:47:08.000 And after all these years saying, like, okay, this kickboxing chapter within the book is, I think that's done.
00:47:18.000 Let's start a new chapter.
00:47:19.000 Well, there's no big kickboxing fight that can compare with what you just did.
00:47:23.000 No, exactly.
00:47:24.000 38?
00:47:24.000 I mean, how old are you now?
00:47:25.000 37.
00:47:26.000 37, yeah.
00:47:27.000 So at that age, like, you've got to, like, look at what you've already accomplished.
00:47:32.000 Yeah.
00:47:33.000 In kickboxing, there's no fight that everyone's calling out for.
00:47:36.000 Like, oh, you know, it's not like Badr Hari's in the prime.
00:47:41.000 It's not like one big fight.
00:47:41.000 No.
00:47:43.000 No, no.
00:47:43.000 So there was like, hey, especially with the whole crossover fights being at the biggest attention right now.
00:47:51.000 It's like, hey, I think this is something we got to look at.
00:47:54.000 So after the fight is done, Turkey Al Sheikh comes into the ring, says, you guys are going to fight again.
00:48:02.000 And it's been a couple months now.
00:48:03.000 So what has happened?
00:48:06.000 Do you talk to anybody?
00:48:07.000 Has your management talked to anybody?
00:48:09.000 Yeah, they talked to everybody because it's been crazy.
00:48:11.000 Like all the biggest organizations reached out.
00:48:14.000 Hey, we're looking at this fight, we're looking at that fight.
00:48:18.000 Right.
00:48:19.000 But what about.
00:48:20.000 What makes sense for us?
00:48:22.000 And that's where I'm looking at now because, like I said, I believe I'm in the winter of my career.
00:48:30.000 So I'm just looking at big fights.
00:48:33.000 Do you have a timeline where you want to get out?
00:48:36.000 No, it's not set in stone.
00:48:41.000 But let's see.
00:48:43.000 Let's see.
00:48:44.000 But like I said, I feel like.
00:48:46.000 I'm so excited.
00:48:48.000 I'm so happy and I'm so grateful to be in this position right now.
00:48:52.000 So let's, yeah, make history.
00:48:55.000 Yeah, I mean, it's all about legacy, right?
00:48:57.000 They fucked you over, but you did win.
00:48:59.000 You got a big win out of it in that you performed way better than anybody expected.
00:49:03.000 And then there's also this element where people are rooting for you because they do think you got fucked over.
00:49:08.000 Yeah, 100%.
00:49:09.000 They think you were getting fucked over in the scoring and you got fucked over with a stoppage.
00:49:13.000 Yeah.
00:49:13.000 And so it's very marketable.
00:49:16.000 And, So, my question, though, what I'm asking is Has anybody talked about the rematch other than that one time?
00:49:24.000 I knew this was going to come.
00:49:26.000 I mean, that's the fight.
00:49:27.000 What I want to know is that's the fight.
00:49:29.000 Oh, he's talking about the rematch.
00:49:30.000 That is the fight.
00:49:31.000 I know.
00:49:32.000 That's one of the biggest fights in heavyweight boxing right now.
00:49:35.000 I know.
00:49:36.000 If not, though, it's got to be other than Tyson Fury versus Anthony Joshua is going to be big for England.
00:49:36.000 100%.
00:49:42.000 Right?
00:49:42.000 Yeah.
00:49:43.000 For them, that's an all time fight.
00:49:44.000 Two of the all time greats in England.
00:49:44.000 100%.
00:49:47.000 Two of the greatest British heavyweight champions ever.
00:49:49.000 A little bit late, but.
00:49:50.000 It's a little late.
00:49:51.000 Especially after Anthony Joshua's last fight.
00:49:51.000 Yeah.
00:49:53.000 That was a scary one.
00:49:54.000 I was like, whoa.
00:49:55.000 Yeah, but both of them.
00:49:57.000 Yes.
00:49:57.000 Both of the fights they did.
00:49:59.000 Yes.
00:50:00.000 Yeah.
00:50:01.000 It's not, they're not the same guys.
00:50:02.000 No, but it's still super excited.
00:50:06.000 Exactly, they're legends, and it's a huge fight that finally got made.
00:50:11.000 Other than that, the fight is a rematch.
00:50:14.000 You and Usyk is the fight.
00:50:14.000 Yeah.
00:50:15.000 That is the fight in the heavyweight division right now.
00:50:18.000 There's no one else out there that's like, you know, there's Moses Itama, who people don't really know about enough yet.
00:50:24.000 Not yet, yeah.
00:50:25.000 But he's the future.
00:50:26.000 100%.
00:50:27.000 Woo!
00:50:28.000 That guy's good.
00:50:29.000 Woo!
00:50:29.000 Dynamite.
00:50:30.000 Dynamite.
00:50:31.000 Dynamite.
00:50:32.000 Yeah.
00:50:32.000 So good.
00:50:33.000 Yeah.
00:50:34.000 And he's so slick in how he moves in and out.
00:50:36.000 Yeah.
00:50:37.000 No, that's the next future.
00:50:37.000 Oof.
00:50:40.000 Yeah, he's the future.
00:50:41.000 I mean, he's like our generation's Mike Tyson.
00:50:41.000 Yeah.
00:50:44.000 Yeah.
00:50:44.000 Well, you watch him, he's 21 years old, he's coming up, and you're like, holy shit.
00:50:48.000 He's like.
00:50:49.000 But other than, I mean, but he doesn't have enough experience yet and doesn't have enough name yet for what he really is and what his potential is.
00:50:55.000 No, Jets.
00:50:56.000 No, exactly.
00:50:56.000 One day will happen, but for you and for Usyk, and for heavyweight boxing, that's the vibe.
00:51:02.000 Yeah, 100%.
00:51:04.000 100%.
00:51:04.000 Wish I was a promoter.
00:51:05.000 Yeah.
00:51:06.000 Maybe we'll get Dana White to get Zufa involved.
00:51:09.000 Oh, that would be crazy.
00:51:11.000 I don't know.
00:51:13.000 Is there some sort of a deal that Usyk has with anybody?
00:51:17.000 I don't think so because I believe that is one of the reasons as well why he vacated those belts.
00:51:24.000 Because he doesn't want to deal with anybody else.
00:51:27.000 No, because when you have those belts, you get forced into fights.
00:51:31.000 Right.
00:51:32.000 Like, okay, you're mandatory to fight this guy.
00:51:34.000 And that was the, I think for him, the position that he was in fighting me.
00:51:41.000 He could, like, that was a voluntary defense, and he decided, like, hey, I would love to do this on my terms versus another guy.
00:51:51.000 I think they looked at it like this is maybe gonna be an easier fight, so this is nice to do.
00:51:58.000 That didn't go the way his plan, but but still, I think that's where his mind is at now.
00:52:05.000 Like, he's like, I just want to do what I want to do, which makes so much sense after what he has accomplished.
00:52:12.000 After what he's accomplished, he should be able to call his.
00:52:14.000 Own shots, and I want him to make the most money possible because he is a legend.
00:52:18.000 But that's this, that's like you said, this is the fight.
00:52:21.000 This is the problem, is it might be too hard, yeah?
00:52:24.000 It might be too hard, it might be one of those ones where which is why maybe you know, no disrespect to Deontay, but he might be looking at Deontay thinking Deontay's a little softer, yeah?
00:52:33.000 And we're gonna ride into the sunset, yeah?
00:52:36.000 But it's also spectacular knockout, yeah?
00:52:38.000 But it's also then, like you said, it's not gonna be the big money grab that because if you ask me, no, exactly, they're not gonna be paid that crazy money for it.
00:52:49.000 It's not a big pay per view fight.
00:52:51.000 That's the thing.
00:52:52.000 It's like people will watch it just because he's an all time great.
00:52:55.000 And anytime Usyk fights, people are going to watch.
00:52:58.000 And Deontay still, he's still the greatest one punch knockout artist in the history of the sport.
00:53:03.000 Yeah, because you never know what's going to happen when he fights.
00:53:06.000 That's what you lose is the power.
00:53:07.000 His power is fucking crazy.
00:53:09.000 Yeah, he can finish you in the 10th.
00:53:12.000 Yeah, with one shot.
00:53:13.000 Plop.
00:53:15.000 Coming out of nowhere.
00:53:16.000 Yeah, he hit Ortiz on the top of the head and put him out.
00:53:18.000 I was like, that is nuts, man.
00:53:20.000 Yeah, he's a different level of power.
00:53:22.000 Different level of power.
00:53:23.000 But.
00:53:24.000 Again, 40 years old.
00:53:25.000 It's the twilight of his career.
00:53:27.000 And this hasn't looked good in the last few years.
00:53:32.000 But for Usyk to want that fight signals to me that he just wants to go out with one more payday and that's it.
00:53:39.000 And I don't know if that was his choice that fight.
00:53:41.000 Maybe that's just the internet talking.
00:53:43.000 Maybe that's Deontay Wilder's team wants that fight.
00:53:47.000 I don't know.
00:53:47.000 I don't know either.
00:53:48.000 But like I said, I got all the options.
00:53:50.000 They gave me all the options.
00:53:51.000 Like, hey, you want to fight this guy?
00:53:52.000 You want to fight that guy?
00:53:53.000 So if they talk to you about MMA as well?
00:53:57.000 Yeah.
00:53:57.000 Yeah.
00:53:58.000 But yeah, I'm keeping the options open.
00:54:01.000 But you're leaning towards boxing.
00:54:03.000 Yeah, because I've been in the boxing game now and I've enjoyed it so much.
00:54:08.000 And that's like for me, like I just said, I came from kickboxing from being six years old and doing it for over 30 years.
00:54:17.000 And then now getting really into boxing.
00:54:20.000 I was always boxing, but I was boxing to kickbox.
00:54:22.000 It's a totally different game.
00:54:23.000 I had to rewire everything that was in there.
00:54:28.000 So.
00:54:30.000 Now that I did it and I performed the way that I performed, it was like, yeah, this was fun.
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00:55:24.000 I really enjoyed that.
00:55:25.000 Also, that is the glory division, no pun intended, of the heavyweight division, is the heavyweight division.
00:55:32.000 Of boxing, rather, is the heavyweight division.
00:55:33.000 The heavyweight division is where the real money is at, always.
00:55:36.000 That is the baddest part of boxing.
00:55:38.000 It's always been that way.
00:55:39.000 And for you, after that performance, I got to think there's a lot of options for you.
00:55:43.000 Yeah.
00:55:44.000 Like I said, they threw so many stuff at us, but we're like, hey, we take our time, look at the different options.
00:55:51.000 And of course, still, His Excellency has our first preference because they gave us the opportunity.
00:56:01.000 Right.
00:56:02.000 When.
00:56:03.000 Yeah, we had to.
00:56:04.000 What was it like to fight in front of the pyramids?
00:56:07.000 That's crazy, too.
00:56:08.000 It was insane.
00:56:09.000 Outside.
00:56:10.000 It was insane, Joe.
00:56:11.000 It's like.
00:56:13.000 Let me tell you another story.
00:56:15.000 So, that happened also while I was in this camp.
00:56:20.000 It's not a nice thing to say, but my mother passed away during the moment I was in camp for this fight.
00:56:29.000 And, well, that happened.
00:56:32.000 And then we had to clean out her house.
00:56:32.000 It was hard.
00:56:35.000 And then.
00:56:36.000 Finally doing that and cleaning everything and then we come by a bunch of pictures and Yeah, you can see it on my Instagram and then I see the pictures of my mother 30 years prior Being in front of the pyramids like wow,
00:56:53.000 why do I see these pictures now knowing that this fight is in front of the pyramids?
00:56:59.000 It was Mind-blowing and so for me it was like full circle Going back.
00:57:06.000 I like literally made the same pictures my mother made 30 years prior, before the fight, in front of the swings, in front of the pyramids.
00:57:15.000 And that was like a goosebump.
00:57:17.000 So for me, having that whole experience, being in front of the pyramids, doing that was like full circle.
00:57:25.000 When did they come up with that idea to have you guys fight in front of the pyramids?
00:57:30.000 Well, the way they look at that, yeah, that's crazy.
00:57:36.000 That really is crazy.
00:57:39.000 Wow.
00:57:45.000 Wow,
00:57:50.000 that really is wild.
00:57:52.000 Yeah.
00:57:56.000 Still,
00:57:57.000 I
00:57:59.000 don't know.
00:58:01.000 Still like.
00:58:02.000 Of course, of course.
00:58:05.000 So when did they come up with the idea of having a heavyweight title fight in front of the pyramids?
00:58:05.000 Yeah.
00:58:13.000 Yeah, so the communication is always like really like straightforward and they don't say too much.
00:58:23.000 So the way it began, like the first thing I got was.
00:58:27.000 Just like a WhatsApp picture.
00:58:30.000 We're thinking about this location.
00:58:34.000 That was the thing.
00:58:36.000 Because first I saw the picture.
00:58:38.000 I opened it.
00:58:39.000 Oh, it's the pyramids.
00:58:41.000 And then after that, I looked at it.
00:58:41.000 Nice.
00:58:44.000 We're thinking about this location.
00:58:45.000 I'm like, okay, but how are you going to do that?
00:58:49.000 To me, it didn't make too much sense.
00:58:52.000 And then afterwards, they sent me a video.
00:58:54.000 They're like, yeah, we're going to do it here.
00:58:55.000 It's going to be outside.
00:58:56.000 And it's like, oh my God, it's going to be outside in front of the pyramids.
00:59:00.000 It's like mind-blowing and that was.
00:59:04.000 That was also a thing.
00:59:06.000 That's what I said.
00:59:06.000 Like it.
00:59:07.000 It was like the rumble in the jungle, right.
00:59:11.000 But then, with that being said, what people thought like what, what is this guy talking about?
00:59:19.000 Is he putting himself in the same category as as Ali and Foreman or whatever?
00:59:25.000 What is he?
00:59:26.000 No, that's not what I'm saying.
00:59:27.000 I mean about the location.
00:59:29.000 I never put myself in that.
00:59:31.000 Everybody that knows me, like I'm, I'm super humble, so I never would say something like that, but that's what I meant.
00:59:37.000 Like, it was something like the rumble in the jungle because we're talking about the location.
00:59:42.000 Right.
00:59:43.000 The location was a part of the experience.
00:59:45.000 Exactly.
00:59:46.000 It was insane, Joe.
00:59:48.000 Like, and then for me, they asked me, like, Rico, can we ask you to do like a certain choreography?
00:59:54.000 Okay, I don't want to do too much.
00:59:55.000 I want to focus on fighting Uzik.
00:59:57.000 So, okay, only thing you got to do is like punch the ground, and then the ground is going to crack open, and then we're going to like, For the first time that evening, boom, we're going to turn on the pyramids.
01:00:08.000 That's cool.
01:00:08.000 That sounds good.
01:00:09.000 I'll do that.
01:00:10.000 So I did that.
01:00:13.000 So I punched the ground.
01:00:14.000 I turned around.
01:00:16.000 And for the first time, we see the ground cracking open.
01:00:20.000 And then the lights shine onto the pyramids.
01:00:23.000 Wow.
01:00:25.000 It was a goosebump moment.
01:00:26.000 Was that your first time being at the pyramids?
01:00:28.000 Yeah.
01:00:29.000 Yeah.
01:00:29.000 So that's why this whole picture and this whole thing was for me, it was like a full circle.
01:00:33.000 Like, wow.
01:00:34.000 It was such a special moment, such a special event.
01:00:39.000 And then, okay, then I turn around, then my whole theme song comes up.
01:00:42.000 You know how I run to the ring.
01:00:45.000 But that wasn't like a real catwalk.
01:00:48.000 And during the day, I already went to see what they expected from me and how I'm going to.
01:00:52.000 And there was some small steps down, like five or six.
01:00:58.000 But then I hear my song, I do my thing and I run to the ring.
01:01:04.000 But I was like walking straight onto these steps.
01:01:07.000 I was like.
01:01:08.000 am i going to take these steps fast i'm like no i'll just jump down i just decided that at the moment and then i i landed it was like oh this was higher than i expected and i just kept on running it's like just think about like maybe i just like sprained my ankle or something like jumping from that crazy like that yeah
01:01:32.000 oh my god it was so funny because after afterwards the cameraman he woke up to me he's like i almost missed you you you You were jumping down.
01:01:41.000 I was looking at you, looking at you, like, bro, you were gone.
01:01:44.000 That was wild.
01:01:45.000 Yeah, it was.
01:01:46.000 It was wild.
01:01:47.000 It was outside and the temperature was actually pretty good.
01:01:51.000 What was the temperature?
01:01:53.000 I think it was like 20 degrees.
01:01:56.000 Celsius?
01:01:56.000 What is that?
01:01:57.000 It's like 70 something.
01:02:01.000 Yeah, sure.
01:02:02.000 It's real swirly in the real mid part.
01:02:04.000 What's that, Jim?
01:02:05.000 I mean, 100 is boiling and 212 is boiling for Fahrenheit, but like 0 and 30, I don't know.
01:02:11.000 Somewhere in the middle, it's just.
01:02:12.000 Put it in the I will.
01:02:13.000 Here, I'll do it right here.
01:02:14.000 I have this on the screen.
01:02:15.000 I can't.
01:02:16.000 What is 20 degrees Celsius in Fahrenheit?
01:02:21.000 68.
01:02:22.000 Oh, perfect.
01:02:23.000 So that was nice.
01:02:24.000 So you're like, ah, and I run and I, whoop, I just jumped out.
01:02:29.000 Wow.
01:02:31.000 Oh, no, it was so cool.
01:02:32.000 Did it feel any different than any other fight you've had before?
01:02:35.000 No?
01:02:36.000 We've had so much.
01:02:36.000 No.
01:02:37.000 How many kickboxing fights have you had?
01:02:41.000 75, something.
01:02:42.000 75.
01:02:43.000 That's crazy.
01:02:44.000 Yeah.
01:02:44.000 That is crazy.
01:02:46.000 Yeah.
01:02:47.000 That's a giant, huge advantage of having so much combat sports experience.
01:02:52.000 Yeah, but where everybody was leaning towards was like, this guy has one professional boxing fight.
01:02:58.000 What is he doing there?
01:02:59.000 This doesn't make any sense.
01:03:01.000 Like, guys, I've been in and around the ring for quite a while.
01:03:06.000 I have a bunch of friends of mine that are just boxing fans.
01:03:08.000 Yeah.
01:03:09.000 And they were talking all kinds of shit.
01:03:11.000 Also, I had so many apologies.
01:03:11.000 Like, you know.
01:03:15.000 Rico, I'm so many famous boxers.
01:03:18.000 I'd be like, I didn't know what you were capable of, but damn, this was crazy.
01:03:24.000 Appreciate that.
01:03:24.000 Like, oh, thank you.
01:03:25.000 Quite honestly, I didn't know what you're going to be capable of either because I knew you as a kickboxer were one of the greatest of all time.
01:03:32.000 But as a boxer, I hadn't seen.
01:03:34.000 I'm like, you're taking away one of his biggest weapons, which is the low kicks.
01:03:38.000 I mean, your low kicks are phenomenal.
01:03:40.000 You have tree trunk legs.
01:03:41.000 So I was like, that's a giant weapon that's removed from him.
01:03:45.000 Like, we'll see.
01:03:46.000 He's also fighting one of the greatest of all time, if not the greatest boxer of all time in the heavyweight division.
01:03:51.000 But to have that kind of a performance, And to do it the way you did it, it's like, man, it was amazing to watch.
01:04:00.000 As a person who likes watching combat sports, it was one of the most exciting things I'd ever watched.
01:04:04.000 Yeah, thank you so much, Joe.
01:04:05.000 Appreciate that.
01:04:06.000 But for me, I think what worked in my advantage the most was if you look at kickboxing and it's logical, like physically, it's like you're so square on.
01:04:19.000 And everybody thought that was what I was going to do.
01:04:23.000 But I was boxing always.
01:04:26.000 To kickbox, so but Peter Fury has been telling me to do get more on the side for years.
01:04:33.000 But how, as a kickboxer, am I going to be more on the side?
01:04:36.000 You can't, they're going to kick my leg off, yeah, because I can't block anymore, yeah.
01:04:39.000 So I was constantly trying to find the balance within that.
01:04:45.000 And now Peter was super happy because now finally he could teach me boxing to box, right?
01:04:53.000 So now I had to proper stance every time, like, okay, go more to the side, more to the side because you.
01:04:57.000 You're too square on it.
01:04:59.000 Right.
01:04:59.000 Go back.
01:05:00.000 So I needed the six months.
01:05:04.000 So much hard work we had to put into that.
01:05:07.000 Did you find yourself having to correct it mentally, or did it get to a point where it was instinctive?
01:05:14.000 The stance and the positioning?
01:05:16.000 We had to definitely correct, and they had to tell me.
01:05:20.000 But were you correcting in the fight?
01:05:21.000 In the fight, was it instinctive?
01:05:23.000 No, in the fight, it was.
01:05:24.000 You got it.
01:05:25.000 We got it down.
01:05:26.000 But within the whole prep, it was.
01:05:28.000 So you really do need the six months for that?
01:05:30.000 100%.
01:05:30.000 Yeah, 100%.
01:05:31.000 So for me,
01:05:34.000 um, this whole experience of getting into boxing like it was perfect, it was perfect for everybody around it.
01:05:43.000 It was really terrible, of course, where Anthony Joshua went through and everything.
01:05:49.000 So, the most horrific thing ever.
01:05:52.000 But for me, getting into the transition to boxing, I needed that time to get a clean transition.
01:06:01.000 And that's why I was super happy with the six months and the change of fights.
01:06:07.000 I still believe the Anthony Joshua fight is still a big fight that we could do.
01:06:14.000 Yeah, getting the opportunity to fight for a boxing heavyweight title is on another level big, of course.
01:06:20.000 Oh, yeah, it's gigantic.
01:06:22.000 And also, I've got to think that from that experience, you're even better now.
01:06:26.000 100%.
01:06:27.000 You have to be better.
01:06:28.000 We're in there with the best guy ever.
01:06:30.000 Yeah, 100%.
01:06:31.000 But the funny thing is, that's why I made the meme of Jim Carrey.
01:06:38.000 Because everybody was like, he's moving pretty strange.
01:06:44.000 What is he doing?
01:06:46.000 But we knew that.
01:06:47.000 That thing would work versus Usyk.
01:06:53.000 But we got so many more tools in the toolbox that we can pull out.
01:06:58.000 Because in another fight versus a different fighter, we're going to show a whole different Rico again.
01:07:04.000 But if we're going to fight Usyk again, it's going to be slightly different.
01:07:07.000 But it's still like basically the strategy worked.
01:07:11.000 Well, you gave him so many things to think about constantly.
01:07:14.000 There was no time to set.
01:07:16.000 There was always chaos.
01:07:18.000 There was always hands moving.
01:07:19.000 There was always your body's moving, you're moving forward, you're shuffling around.
01:07:23.000 It was so much activity that his mind has to constantly process all these different things.
01:07:28.000 But normally, that is what he does.
01:07:30.000 Yes.
01:07:31.000 And that's if you look at the whole heavyweight division, all his previous fights, he was in control.
01:07:37.000 He was showing them so much.
01:07:39.000 And if you have something to look at the whole time, it's like, it gets your mind out of what you want to do because you're constantly anticipating what your opponent is doing.
01:07:49.000 So that's what we try to do.
01:07:51.000 We try to take that from him.
01:07:53.000 What were you doing for conditioning?
01:07:56.000 I just want to know what your conditioning is like in general because you are such a big guy.
01:08:01.000 And to be that big and have that kind of cardio is very extraordinary.
01:08:11.000 Do I agree?
01:08:11.000 Do I agree?
01:08:12.000 Maybe partially I agree with that because, to be honest, at the top, Joe, everybody works hard, right?
01:08:20.000 That's what I do.
01:08:21.000 I just work incredibly hard.
01:08:24.000 But.
01:08:26.000 I believe that mentally, when you get tired or when your body gives signals of starting to feel tired, how do you cope with that in your mind?
01:08:41.000 That's where I think the biggest difference is.
01:08:43.000 Because if at the moment I feel I'm getting tired, then I know my opponent is feeling fucked.
01:08:52.000 Right, right, right.
01:08:53.000 Because I know how hard I work.
01:08:56.000 To be fit and to do everything possible to be in the best shape ever.
01:09:00.000 Because if you look at training schedules or whatever from my schedule versus another guy's schedule, I find it hard to believe that I'm training so much harder than all the other top guys.
01:09:14.000 Yeah, that's my opinion.
01:09:16.000 I find that hard to believe.
01:09:18.000 So for me, it's just like a mental thing.
01:09:21.000 As soon as I start feeling it, I'm like, okay, now the fight starts.
01:09:26.000 Well, there's certain.
01:09:28.000 Certain people have genetics that lean towards better cardio and conditioning.
01:09:32.000 Like in the UFC, Cain Velasquez was famous for that.
01:09:32.000 Yeah.
01:09:35.000 Yeah, as a monster.
01:09:36.000 He just had insane cardio for a heavyweight.
01:09:39.000 But for you, are you what I'm getting at?
01:09:43.000 How much time are you spending on strength and conditioning versus skill work?
01:09:49.000 I think it's pretty balanced.
01:09:51.000 It's pretty balanced.
01:09:52.000 But for example, everything I do is based on endurance.
01:09:57.000 So even the power, I don't have to do 300 pounds bench press.
01:10:03.000 Right.
01:10:03.000 I don't care.
01:10:04.000 I know I'm already big.
01:10:06.000 Right.
01:10:09.000 I know I'm not the hardest puncher.
01:10:11.000 Within the game.
01:10:12.000 I don't have to be the hardest puncher in the game, but as soon as I hit, i'm still a heavyweight, still like right, 260 pounds behind it.
01:10:20.000 So when I hit you, you gotta feel it.
01:10:23.000 So that's how we approach it.
01:10:26.000 I don't yeah, just lean into what works for you.
01:10:29.000 I'm not the strongest puncher, I also don't believe i'm the most skillful, but i'm definitely the hardest worker and that's what we try to emphasize, like just keep working, keep working hard.
01:10:42.000 So we Yeah, the pace is high.
01:10:45.000 We can show a lot.
01:10:46.000 We can do a lot.
01:10:47.000 Do you have a guy that's just a strength and conditioning guy?
01:10:50.000 So, what kind of work were you doing?
01:10:52.000 What kind of things are you doing?
01:10:54.000 You want to know it all, right?
01:10:55.000 I want to know it all.
01:10:55.000 Yeah.
01:10:57.000 I do a full body workout three times a week and just a lot of reps.
01:11:06.000 A lot of reps.
01:11:07.000 So, this is more strength than conditioning, or is it both at the same time?
01:11:11.000 It's both at the same time.
01:11:12.000 Because what we do is we have a.
01:11:17.000 For example, we do chest and I do like 20 reps, just the beginning, 20 reps.
01:11:24.000 Then we get to another exercise and then again I do 20-20 reps.
01:11:29.000 So we do 40 reps each.
01:11:31.000 And those reps are going to go up the closer we get to the fight.
01:11:34.000 But the rest between the exercise is just 30 seconds.
01:11:39.000 And then we change exercise.
01:11:41.000 And we go to a different muscle group.
01:11:43.000 And then we go back to chest.
01:11:45.000 And then again we do 20-20, 30 seconds.
01:11:47.000 Okay, we go to a different muscle group.
01:11:49.000 The next, again, 30 seconds.
01:11:50.000 So it's the pace is incredibly high.
01:11:53.000 And I think that whole training takes maybe 35, 40 minutes max.
01:12:01.000 Yeah, that's got to be a giant factor because I don't know how many people are doing that that way.
01:12:05.000 You know, a lot of guys are doing strength andor conditioning.
01:12:08.000 They're running, they're hitting the back, they're doing different things.
01:12:11.000 Yeah, but for me, like, I'm not focusing on when I'm focusing on strength, I don't want to be big.
01:12:16.000 I feel like I'm already pretty big.
01:12:18.000 And the more muscles I have, I have to just carry them with me.
01:12:18.000 Right.
01:12:22.000 And all those muscles.
01:12:24.000 They want and they need oxygen.
01:12:26.000 So then my heart is going to be like pumping just to get that oxygen there.
01:12:30.000 No, I just focus on that.
01:12:32.000 And then I start with 20 and then I get to 22s and then I get to 24s.
01:12:32.000 Boom.
01:12:36.000 And then with the same exact weight.
01:12:38.000 So you get so much stronger at the same time, you get so much fitter.
01:12:43.000 Right.
01:12:43.000 And that combination just, I don't know, it's just been working for us throughout the years.
01:12:49.000 So are you using apps and heart rate monitors and things along those lines?
01:12:55.000 These hardware monitors do running in different ways.
01:12:55.000 Yeah.
01:13:01.000 We do the interval running, we do the endurance running.
01:13:04.000 Sometimes you just run for an hour.
01:13:07.000 And then you do the interval running.
01:13:10.000 Is this mostly treadmill work?
01:13:12.000 Yeah.
01:13:12.000 Yeah.
01:13:13.000 Because, like, my body's been through a lot.
01:13:18.000 So running on the concrete, running outside, just rough on the knees.
01:13:18.000 Right.
01:13:22.000 No, I don't believe it's smart.
01:13:24.000 So I have this special treadmill.
01:13:28.000 Which I can take some of my own weight off.
01:13:32.000 So I have this big balloon around me.
01:13:34.000 Oh, okay.
01:13:35.000 I know what you're talking about.
01:13:35.000 I've seen those before.
01:13:36.000 Yeah, so I got that since I had the ACL surgery on the knee.
01:13:42.000 And ever since I've been using it, and I love it.
01:13:46.000 So I can do the running
01:13:46.000 I love it.
01:13:50.000 experience.
01:13:51.000 And because I love running, because it's so hard, so heavy on the body.
01:13:56.000 And mentally, it's so hard.
01:13:57.000 But then I don't have the full force on my joints.
01:14:00.000 Right, right, right, right.
01:14:02.000 It's just like, yeah, it's not good.
01:14:05.000 Well, I mean, you've got to think of all those years of leg kicks.
01:14:09.000 Leg kicks, and oh, my God.
01:14:12.000 Especially when I got the ACL, I was like, oh my God.
01:14:15.000 How long ago did that happen?
01:14:17.000 Three years ago?
01:14:17.000 Three years ago?
01:14:18.000 Yeah.
01:14:19.000 I thought I was done.
01:14:22.000 So much pain.
01:14:23.000 I was like, why?
01:14:23.000 So much pain.
01:14:25.000 I'm getting close to the end of my career.
01:14:27.000 Now this happens.
01:14:30.000 And then getting back from that within six months, that was like because I had a bucket handle meniscus and I had the ACL.
01:14:40.000 I had exactly the same thing.
01:14:42.000 Yeah.
01:14:43.000 Did they remove the meniscus?
01:14:43.000 It was terrible.
01:14:45.000 No.
01:14:45.000 No, they just stitched it out.
01:14:46.000 They stitch it back.
01:14:47.000 So it's smarter.
01:14:48.000 Yeah, but they know that now.
01:14:49.000 Yeah, but the first six weeks, you're not allowed to put too much pressure on it.
01:14:54.000 Right.
01:14:55.000 Right.
01:14:55.000 But oh my God.
01:14:56.000 They used to think that you should cut the meniscus out.
01:14:59.000 Now they've done studies and they find that there's no benefit to that.
01:15:03.000 Of course not, because your meniscus is right between the bones, or else it's just bone on bone.
01:15:08.000 Exactly.
01:15:10.000 Especially with me being so heavy and so big, like, within 10 years, you're going to have trouble if we're going to take it out.
01:15:17.000 Yeah, I have trouble on my left leg because of that very reason.
01:15:20.000 They took a big piece of it out when I had the bucket handle tear, and it just, that area hurts all the time.
01:15:26.000 Yeah.
01:15:27.000 Just, it is what it is.
01:15:28.000 They do cadaver grafts.
01:15:30.000 Will they take a cadaver meniscus and put it in place?
01:15:33.000 Yeah, they take a piece of meniscus out of a dead guy.
01:15:36.000 But it doesn't always work, and you know, you really have to be young for it to work more effectively.
01:15:42.000 I guess they say that, but that also could be dependent upon what you're doing with it.
01:15:47.000 Like, are you using peptides?
01:15:49.000 Are you using stem cells?
01:15:50.000 Are you using hyperbaric chamber?
01:15:52.000 Yeah.
01:15:52.000 Are you using red light therapy?
01:15:53.000 Are you using all the different modalities that could help you heal quicker?
01:15:56.000 Yeah.
01:15:57.000 But yeah, they do.
01:15:58.000 I know a guy who got it done.
01:15:59.000 You definitely use everything because you haven't aged a day since we did the last show.
01:16:04.000 I use everything.
01:16:05.000 I don't know how you do it, but after the show, you got to give me the recipe.
01:16:09.000 Well, I probably do a lot of the things you do because I know you do cold plunge every day.
01:16:13.000 I love it.
01:16:13.000 I do that every morning.
01:16:15.000 And I do a lot of sauna work, but I do a lot of red light therapy.
01:16:19.000 I do that at least four or five times a week.
01:16:20.000 I try to do it.
01:16:21.000 I've done, I have a hyperbaric chamber.
01:16:24.000 I do that a lot.
01:16:25.000 I try to do that as many days a week as I can.
01:16:26.000 I've done that two days in a row now.
01:16:28.000 I like to do it three, four days a week.
01:16:30.000 If when I'm really feeling better, it's when I'm doing it three or four days a week.
01:16:34.000 And just constantly training.
01:16:35.000 Like you have to, you can't get out of shape.
01:16:37.000 You do it all, right?
01:16:38.000 You do.
01:16:39.000 Yeah, you can't get out of shape.
01:16:40.000 You get out of shape, you can't get back in shape.
01:16:42.000 But if you stay in shape, it's remarkable how much you can keep it going.
01:16:46.000 Look at Bernard Hopkins.
01:16:48.000 I mean, he was performing at a world class, world championship level at 50 years old.
01:16:52.000 As a boxer, which is nuts, that's insane, and it's just because of his discipline you know, never got fat, never got out of shape, always stayed in the gym, never ate bad food.
01:17:01.000 And also, mentally, it keeps you just in balance, yeah, just being because that's what I believe.
01:17:07.000 Why just training in general for everybody is so good because that's me time, yep, that's the time that you're working on what is good for you and for your mental health.
01:17:19.000 You're not thinking about, hey, I'm at work, I'm making money to provide for the family, or I'm doing groceries for this.
01:17:26.000 No, I'm in the gym.
01:17:27.000 I'm working on me.
01:17:29.000 I can turn your phone off, listen to some music, and just like work on your body and your mental health.
01:17:36.000 It's so good.
01:17:37.000 And the effects of it afterwards, the alleviation of anxiety and pressure, and just how good you feel, the endorphins.
01:17:45.000 I just wish people that don't do it could understand that because so many people, they just have an aversion to the hard work.
01:17:53.000 They have an aversion to like getting there.
01:17:55.000 They just like, oh, I don't want to do it.
01:17:57.000 I don't want to do it.
01:17:58.000 But if you just.
01:17:59.000 Do it, you'll feel so much better, and then everybody wants to talk about discipline.
01:18:03.000 Discipline is very important, it's the most important thing, probably, but almost equally important is momentum.
01:18:10.000 And once you have a few good days in a row, the discipline is not as hard anymore because now you have momentum.
01:18:17.000 Yeah, 100%.
01:18:18.000 You're right, but the thing is, what happens, same with the cold plunge that we do multiple times a week or almost every day, is like some days, same as going to work or whatever, you just wake up.
01:18:32.000 And you just do not feel like doing it.
01:18:35.000 Yeah.
01:18:36.000 But then the discipline comes in.
01:18:39.000 Like, I do not feel like doing it, but I am going to do it.
01:18:43.000 Because if I can do it on the days that I do not feel like doing it, every other day is going to be easy.
01:18:43.000 Yeah.
01:18:50.000 Yes.
01:18:50.000 And that's for me, what I felt like I was just sharing with you, like what I find so hard, for example, with the losing and the mistakes that I made, that's what I've been doing.
01:19:04.000 to be honest, my whole life.
01:19:05.000 That's what I'm trying to work on now.
01:19:07.000 It's like everything that happened in my life, like it's been some crazy, like my mother passed away within this preparation and I do not take the time to
01:19:21.000 really take that.
01:19:23.000 Take it in.
01:19:24.000 Take it in, like what just happened.
01:19:27.000 And I had the same thing with my father.
01:19:28.000 It was like right before the Ben Sadiq fight.
01:19:30.000 And I just take it and I continue because what I do, I take it and it's a certain emotional pain and I use that to put it in physical pain so I can use it as fuel for what I do in the ring and whatever,
01:19:51.000 for as my job.
01:19:52.000 But I feel like personally, in relationships and just in general, in just living, I think that's not the way to cope with it.
01:20:03.000 So that's what I'm trying to work on now.
01:20:05.000 So it's very difficult to be balanced if you also want to be excellent.
01:20:08.000 Yeah.
01:20:09.000 If you want to be the best, you know, if you want to be and accomplish what you've accomplished, you have to be obsessed.
01:20:16.000 And if you have to be obsessed, it's almost impossible to be balanced.
01:20:20.000 It's almost impossible to have a balanced life and also be obsessed on a goal.
01:20:24.000 No, 100%.
01:20:25.000 But I don't feel like it's so much about the balance, but it's just not the way to
01:20:33.000 cope with life in general, next to being an athlete and being a fighter, which is a big part of what you do.
01:20:40.000 But just like in general like okay, how do you, how do you cope with with things, especially now with this, for example, with this loss, is like, how do I find a way to give this this loss and a way of like okay, that I can work with it without like being feeling frustrated?
01:21:04.000 Or like oh, I got robbed or whatever, right so, and I feel like that's getting better.
01:21:09.000 So I I watched my mom funeral back.
01:21:14.000 Like I think, like
01:21:18.000 Four or five weeks ago for the very first time.
01:21:20.000 So she passed away in February.
01:21:22.000 That's when I watched her back for the first time, just to take it all in again.
01:21:27.000 And again, I went all the way through it.
01:21:29.000 And I'm like, okay, I need to do that more to get.
01:21:34.000 I don't know if it's balanced or just.
01:21:36.000 I don't know.
01:21:36.000 Just to get a way of feeling like, yeah, I can take that emotion in.
01:21:45.000 Because now I just.
01:21:47.000 Every time I'm just pushing that emotion away and just using it as fuel to.
01:21:55.000 Be a fighter and be the best version of me within the ring.
01:21:58.000 But, like, as a person, I don't feel like it's a healthy way to just keep pushing everything.
01:22:05.000 No, keep pushing it down.
01:22:08.000 Well, it's great that you recognize that, though, and that will definitely help you as you transition from being a fighter to being a retired fighter and doing whatever else you want to do.
01:22:17.000 You have so much time left in your life to do anything.
01:22:19.000 Yeah, 100%.
01:22:20.000 100%.
01:22:21.000 Recognizing that that is an issue is huge for your ability to.
01:22:26.000 Move on to do other things because 100%.
01:22:29.000 That's a giant struggle for a lot of fighters.
01:22:31.000 The struggle, especially fighters that have competed at your level, you know, the glory, the excitement, the chaos of it all is so huge that to step away from that is very, very difficult for a lot of guys.
01:22:44.000 Yeah, that's why I'm so happy.
01:22:45.000 And I also believe that what gave me this is that I found my new passion within acting.
01:22:54.000 But so being on set with.
01:22:58.000 Jake Chillenhall, with Dave Batista, with Eldis Hodge and those guys being so excellent at what they're doing as actors and then just talking with them about this.
01:23:12.000 I think that also gave me more and more that realization of hey, instead of just like pushing it away, I can use those emotions and that feeling to be an actor at a certain point.
01:23:29.000 So, And I always said, like, I just kept pushing it away.
01:23:34.000 I don't want to feel it.
01:23:35.000 I don't want to feel it.
01:23:36.000 And as soon as I feel it, I turn it into physical pain so I know I get to be a better version of me within the ring.
01:23:42.000 I hear what you're saying, but if you want to get into acting, it's good to feel.
01:23:47.000 Because as soon as you feel, it's even better.
01:23:49.000 It's going to transition even better on camera.
01:23:52.000 Because then we see that you're feeling something.
01:23:55.000 And if it comes out of your own experience, it's even better.
01:23:58.000 It hurts still, but you can turn it into something positive.
01:24:03.000 And that's where.
01:24:05.000 Where I'm really happy about, like after being a fighter, I really found my new passion within acting because it's so much fun.
01:24:12.000 That's great.
01:24:13.000 So much fun to be on set and, yeah, being great at something else.
01:24:18.000 Yeah, that's great that you found something else that you're excited about.
01:24:21.000 That's really important.
01:24:22.000 Very important.
01:24:23.000 So, how many movies have you done?
01:24:25.000 I did a few.
01:24:26.000 Did a few, I think, like a handful.
01:24:28.000 And I think the most recognizable things I did was Den of Thieves, Pantera, Den of Thieves 2.
01:24:34.000 Oh, nice.
01:24:36.000 With Gerard and O'Shea Jackson Jr.
01:24:38.000 And the last one, Roadhouse.
01:24:41.000 So, and of course, I've been talking with Jason for quite some time now to do something together.
01:24:48.000 So, we're looking at different options.
01:24:51.000 Like, hey, we could do this.
01:24:53.000 But he's like, he has a certain focus on what he sees.
01:24:58.000 Like, hey, Rico, I want you to do this type of movie.
01:25:02.000 And I want you to be this type of character.
01:25:05.000 Because I don't want you to die.
01:25:06.000 And I want you to do this.
01:25:08.000 So, it's, yeah, for him being.
01:25:11.000 Yeah, so experienced within that world.
01:25:14.000 I just well, also him coming as an athlete as well.
01:25:17.000 Exactly.
01:25:18.000 He was a world class diver, right?
01:25:20.000 Yeah.
01:25:21.000 Yeah.
01:25:22.000 And he's a martial arts fanatic.
01:25:24.000 He loves it.
01:25:25.000 Yeah.
01:25:26.000 He loves it.
01:25:28.000 Yeah.
01:25:29.000 So that's amazing.
01:25:30.000 So, and then, yeah, telling him that, like, hey, I love the X.
01:25:33.000 He comes to my fights.
01:25:35.000 I visit him on set.
01:25:36.000 Like, hey, I just look at what he does and how he does it.
01:25:40.000 It's, yeah, it's out of this world.
01:25:41.000 It's the next level.
01:25:42.000 Well, that's so good that you have something that you're really excited about as you retire, like transitioning into that, and that you already have some success with that.
01:25:50.000 Yeah, 100%.
01:25:51.000 He's huge.
01:25:51.000 100%.
01:25:52.000 You have to.
01:25:52.000 Dave Bautista is another one, right?
01:25:55.000 Huge success in WWE.
01:25:57.000 Went on to do that, and now he's done a ton of movies.
01:25:59.000 Yeah, and he's really good.
01:26:01.000 Yeah, he's really good.
01:26:02.000 He's a very good actor.
01:26:03.000 Yeah, it's not just like, oh, he's an athlete that tried to do some acting.
01:26:07.000 No, he's a really good actor, and he showed so many different sides of himself.
01:26:13.000 He was great in that.
01:26:13.000 What was it?
01:26:14.000 The Glass Onion?
01:26:15.000 Was that what it was called?
01:26:17.000 Yeah.
01:26:17.000 Yeah, the.
01:26:20.000 What is that?
01:26:21.000 The mystery thing about it.
01:26:22.000 Knives out.
01:26:24.000 Yeah.
01:26:25.000 Knives out, glass onion, right?
01:26:26.000 That's what it was called.
01:26:27.000 He was great in that.
01:26:27.000 Yeah.
01:26:28.000 He's great.
01:26:29.000 He's, I mean, again, it's like you see these big guys and you say, oh, they're big and they're just going to play a brute.
01:26:36.000 But no, it's like he's a human.
01:26:38.000 Yeah.
01:26:38.000 Human beings have depth.
01:26:39.000 Yeah.
01:26:40.000 You could do a lot of different things.
01:26:41.000 Yeah, exactly.
01:26:42.000 So he's got a, he's losing weight now to like show he's like, yeah, but he looks amazing now.
01:26:48.000 Yeah, he's still big.
01:26:49.000 He's still 200.
01:26:50.000 I mean, like, oh, he's so small.
01:26:51.000 He's 240.
01:26:52.000 He's huge.
01:26:53.000 No, he's huge and he's in great shape.
01:26:55.000 He's the nicest guy as well.
01:26:57.000 Oh, that's cool.
01:26:58.000 He's the nicest guy.
01:26:59.000 So, we had a lot of fun.
01:27:01.000 It was such an honor to be there on set with them and on such a big production.
01:27:07.000 It's like, wow, I'm just looking at it.
01:27:09.000 So, how do you balance that out?
01:27:11.000 As you've said, you're in the winter of your career.
01:27:14.000 Would you accept a movie role right now if you knew that a big fight could potentially happen?
01:27:19.000 No.
01:27:20.000 So, you have to be careful right now.
01:27:22.000 Yeah, for me, it's like I'm focused on finishing that, and as soon as I have a movie, I'm like, okay, but then I'm not going to do a fight.
01:27:32.000 That's going to be hard.
01:27:35.000 So, and especially within the other one, I didn't really get the option because I was on Roadhouse and then I got the Anthony Joshua fight.
01:27:43.000 But back then, I was just the kickboxer.
01:27:47.000 Right.
01:27:48.000 The kickboxer world champion, but that didn't really say too much.
01:27:53.000 So I was in the underdog position.
01:27:56.000 I was in the passenger seat.
01:27:57.000 Now I show what I can do.
01:28:00.000 So now I got a little more like, yo guys, I got a movie, so can we push the fight a little bit further so I have the time to get ready for it?
01:28:07.000 Right.
01:28:08.000 So that's better now.
01:28:09.000 But for me, I would never blend those two together or like, hey, okay, let me finish this movie real quick and then go straight into a fight camp that's going to be like two, two and a half months.
01:28:21.000 I need a good, like, clean four months to get ready for a fight of this magnitude.
01:28:27.000 Right.
01:28:28.000 So, um when you're talking about these different conversations that people have had with you, is the door completely closed to the UFC?
01:28:36.000 Because I know that they did contact you and they were talking about you fighting and that they were going to try to do that Derrick Lewis fight.
01:28:44.000 I was excited about that.
01:28:45.000 Yeah.
01:28:46.000 The money was nowhere near, I'm sure, the money that you got for the Superstar fight.
01:28:46.000 Me too.
01:28:50.000 I believe that the gap is even bigger now.
01:28:53.000 Yeah.
01:28:54.000 Sure.
01:28:55.000 So I think that's where the actual problem is just to be completely transparent.
01:29:01.000 So for me, it doesn't make sense.
01:29:03.000 Any sense to go around the bush and go backwards financially?
01:29:10.000 If they would want to do something, it really has to make sense.
01:29:13.000 But, yeah, we all know that, yeah, that's not really like how the UFC works.
01:29:18.000 So I don't believe that that is an option.
01:29:22.000 Well, it's interesting because their heavyweight division is so.
01:29:26.000 Have you ever worked with Tom Aspinall?
01:29:28.000 Of course.
01:29:29.000 He's a very good friend of mine.
01:29:31.000 Oh, really?
01:29:32.000 I've seen video of you guys training.
01:29:34.000 Yeah, we trained so much already for like, I think, close to 10 years.
01:29:37.000 Man, he got a bad deal.
01:29:38.000 He got really fucked over for that fight.
01:29:42.000 You know, the way people got upset at him for stopping the fight.
01:29:47.000 With those eye pokes, that's to me, that drove me crazy.
01:29:50.000 Like, what do you expect the guy to do?
01:29:52.000 He's defending the heavyweight title, he gets poked in the eyes and he can't fucking see.
01:29:56.000 And he's had two eye surgeries since then.
01:29:58.000 And he's the nicest guy, he's the nicest guy, and he works incredibly hard.
01:30:04.000 And he would never, never, even though, because I understand where it comes from, from the people to a certain extent, because they feel like, hey, God was doing so good in the beginning of the fight.
01:30:17.000 But it was just the beginning of the fight.
01:30:19.000 It was just like the first round or whatever.
01:30:21.000 So it's possible that, hey, because of some ring rust, he had to get into it.
01:30:26.000 And then the fight ain't over till it's over, right?
01:30:28.000 So you can have an opinion about that the first round, and I get an eye poke.
01:30:33.000 Oh, now he's going to stop because he knew he was behind or whatever.
01:30:36.000 He would never, never in whatever world do that because he has fighter heart.
01:30:42.000 No, if he got the eye poke, he was knuckle deep in his eye.
01:30:46.000 It was like gone.
01:30:47.000 Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, Cyril Gahn has a history of doing that.
01:30:51.000 He's done it.
01:30:52.000 And also, and definitely, I truly believe because I know Cyril as well.
01:30:55.000 He's also a very nice guy, and I do not believe he's doing that intentionally to fuck with people or whatever.
01:31:03.000 It's just a bad instinct that keeps happening.
01:31:05.000 You know, maybe it's a habit or whatever.
01:31:07.000 You're looking at you, you're doing this, and you're running right into eyeballs.
01:31:12.000 It's just, they need to stop doing it.
01:31:15.000 You know, I mean, there's a bunch of different conversations about how to stop it.
01:31:19.000 Yeah.
01:31:20.000 One of them is change the gloves.
01:31:23.000 You don't need open fingers like that.
01:31:26.000 You don't need that for grappling.
01:31:27.000 No, they could cover the tip of it like a mitten.
01:31:30.000 And there's a way to do that where it would probably eliminate a lot of the eye pokes.
01:31:34.000 Another one is a guy named Trevor Whitman from Onyx Sports.
01:31:38.000 He's a Justin Gaetje's trainer who makes a much better glove.
01:31:41.000 And his glove, your hand is in this position all the time.
01:31:45.000 Instead of the UFC glove, you have to glove your hands like this.
01:31:48.000 Yeah, your fingers are open.
01:31:48.000 You just pull it down to tighten up a fist.
01:31:51.000 And this glove, With Trevor's gloves, it's curved like this.
01:31:55.000 So, this is a natural thing.
01:31:57.000 So, you would like when Muay Thai fighters, like Cyril Gahn, they frame off like that all the time, right?
01:32:03.000 You know that.
01:32:03.000 So, when you have those UFC gloves, you're framing off like this.
01:32:07.000 And that's when you're running into eye pokes.
01:32:09.000 So, they try to tell you, keep your fingers up, which is great, but sometimes it doesn't work that way.
01:32:13.000 Exactly.
01:32:14.000 You're leaning away.
01:32:14.000 You can't do that.
01:32:16.000 I don't think Cyril Gahn's a dirty fighter.
01:32:18.000 I just think he's trying to finish fights.
01:32:20.000 Like Alex Pereira thought he was dirty for hitting him in the back of the head.
01:32:24.000 And I watched the fight.
01:32:25.000 Over again to watch it, and what I saw is Alex is moving, Cyril's trying to hit him, and sometimes when that happens, some of the shots are going to land on the back of the head.
01:32:35.000 Yeah, but what is it the referee that needs to like say, Hey, stop it?
01:32:39.000 Yes, yeah, we're fighting, so you gotta try and punch wherever you get the punch.
01:32:43.000 It's hard because you're also like, He might not have the best position to see it because it's chaos, and also, like, if you're trying to hit like a guy right here and then his head moves and then you hit the back of the head, yeah, whose fault is that?
01:32:57.000 Is that your fault that you're supposed to pull back?
01:32:59.000 You're in the middle of a shot.
01:33:00.000 It's very difficult to stop.
01:33:02.000 It's hard to say, but when you look at his performance in that fight against Al Prayer, it was fucking extraordinary, man.
01:33:09.000 He's.
01:33:10.000 We were.
01:33:11.000 There's a group chat I have with a few friends of mine, Dean Thomas and Matt Serra and John Rollo.
01:33:16.000 We do a podcast together.
01:33:17.000 And we were just talking about it how basketball is a phenomenal base for some of these guys because Cyril Gahn.
01:33:25.000 I'm going to show you.
01:33:26.000 I'll send you this video.
01:33:27.000 I'll send it to Jamie.
01:33:28.000 Cyril Gahn can't fucking move, man.
01:33:31.000 And some of the.
01:33:32.000 He's light.
01:33:33.000 Light's feeding as well.
01:33:34.000 And he's 250 pounds.
01:33:35.000 Yeah.
01:33:36.000 But it's the way he moves is so extraordinary.
01:33:38.000 And I think some of that is because of basketball.
01:33:42.000 Because.
01:33:43.000 Yeah, well, no, it's not that one.
01:33:45.000 This is a brand new video.
01:33:46.000 He's playing against the NBA center here.
01:33:48.000 Oh, man.
01:33:49.000 There's multiple videos of it then because he's, I mean, he's pretty sick.
01:33:54.000 Yeah.
01:33:55.000 But that's one of them.
01:33:57.000 I was with him.
01:33:58.000 We did a little moving around together on Dennis Thieves 2.
01:34:04.000 Oh, okay.
01:34:05.000 He was in there.
01:34:05.000 We were in the scene together.
01:34:07.000 So that was fun.
01:34:08.000 It's just having a guy.
01:34:09.000 He's such a nice guy.
01:34:10.000 He's like very light.
01:34:12.000 He moves around.
01:34:12.000 So light.
01:34:14.000 And so hard to hit, man.
01:34:16.000 He's never been in trouble.
01:34:17.000 In the fight, I mean, he got finished by John Jones, but that was a submission.
01:34:20.000 Yeah.
01:34:21.000 And Francis Ngano just beat him by grappling.
01:34:23.000 Yeah.
01:34:23.000 But he's never been, like, rocked or staggered.
01:34:26.000 He hardly has.
01:34:27.000 No, because his movement is so extraordinary.
01:34:30.000 Especially for a big guy.
01:34:31.000 But that's why I believe.
01:34:33.000 But Tom has that as well.
01:34:34.000 Yes.
01:34:35.000 He has that move.
01:34:36.000 Well, his blitz is extraordinary.
01:34:36.000 He is like.
01:34:38.000 His ability to cover distance is insane.
01:34:40.000 Yeah.
01:34:41.000 And he's got one punch knockout power.
01:34:42.000 Yeah.
01:34:42.000 He's so explosive.
01:34:43.000 Like, boom, he can.
01:34:45.000 That's.
01:34:46.000 I believe he can be a good boxer.
01:34:48.000 But he can also be a good kickboxer and he's a good MMA fighter.
01:34:52.000 He's so all around because when he comes to kickbox, wow.
01:34:58.000 Well, he's so.
01:34:59.000 I just hate that fans reacted the way they reacted.
01:35:02.000 And it's the casual ones, it's the shitheads.
01:35:05.000 For me, I was like, God, you've got to give the guy some grace.
01:35:09.000 He got his eye poked out.
01:35:10.000 I mean, he literally was knuckle deep in his eyes.
01:35:14.000 For him to.
01:35:16.000 For anyone to think that he should be.
01:35:19.000 Fighting with one eye like that.
01:35:21.000 Who cares?
01:35:22.000 Keep fighting.
01:35:22.000 That's insane.
01:35:24.000 He got fouled.
01:35:25.000 It's not because of a punch.
01:35:27.000 It's not because he got kicked or an elbow.
01:35:29.000 It's a foul.
01:35:31.000 And so, no, the fight should have been stopped the way it was.
01:35:34.000 And that's.
01:35:36.000 Everybody should understand that.
01:35:37.000 It's not his fault.
01:35:38.000 It was his opponent's fault.
01:35:39.000 But how he got to this was because of the whole deal he has.
01:35:43.000 Like, how much sense does it make for me to get into the UFC?
01:35:48.000 Because Connor got like a great deal now.
01:35:52.000 For his last fight.
01:35:53.000 No, for you, boxing makes the most sense, especially at this point in your life financially.
01:35:58.000 And, you know, for Tom, I mean, he has a potential career in boxing as well.
01:36:03.000 And now that Eddie Hearn is managing him, which is very exciting, because, you know, Match Room being behind him, he's going to have a gigantic hype machine, gigantic promotion.
01:36:14.000 Like, I think it's huge.
01:36:15.000 And that they're at odds with the UFC, like, for me, I care about the fighters making the most money possible.
01:36:22.000 Exactly.
01:36:22.000 And that's how he's going to make the most money possible.
01:36:24.000 Yeah.
01:36:25.000 But, like you said, that's what I believe.
01:36:27.000 Like, all the fighters deserve.
01:36:28.000 The fighters that bring in the viewers that are exciting, yeah, they should earn a little bit more, right?
01:36:36.000 That is.
01:36:38.000 Everything should be in balance.
01:36:39.000 100%.
01:36:40.000 And that's, I mean, this is where Turkey Al Sheikh has really ramped up the game, really raised the bar.
01:36:48.000 Yeah.
01:36:49.000 Because he's getting guys to fight that didn't want to fight each other.
01:36:52.000 No, exactly.
01:36:53.000 And he's like, how about this amount?
01:36:55.000 Exactly.
01:36:56.000 Okay.
01:36:57.000 Okay, there we go.
01:36:58.000 But that's how we got the biggest fight.
01:37:01.000 But next to that, with him giving me the opportunity as well, what he does is he thinks outside of the box.
01:37:12.000 And that's what I love so much about what he does.
01:37:15.000 Because we had also the Francis Naganu Tyson Fury fight.
01:37:19.000 Right.
01:37:20.000 And that was also like.
01:37:22.000 Crazy, right?
01:37:23.000 I don't know about that.
01:37:24.000 Zero professional boxing matches for Francis.
01:37:27.000 Exactly.
01:37:28.000 Right.
01:37:29.000 And that decision was also a little bit controversial.
01:37:32.000 Very controversial.
01:37:33.000 I don't know.
01:37:34.000 So.
01:37:35.000 But that's why I like what he does.
01:37:37.000 He thinks outside of the box.
01:37:39.000 Like, hey, no, I like this idea.
01:37:42.000 Yeah, let's just try it.
01:37:43.000 Terrence Crawford versus Canelo Alvarez.
01:37:45.000 That's way outside the box.
01:37:46.000 Yeah.
01:37:47.000 You got a guy moving up two weight classes.
01:37:49.000 Yeah.
01:37:50.000 To fight an all time great.
01:37:51.000 I mean, it was, and a lot of people thought Canelo's too big.
01:37:54.000 Canelo's too big.
01:37:55.000 Wow.
01:37:55.000 That was an amazing fight.
01:37:56.000 Oh my God.
01:37:57.000 Terrence Crawford is one of the greatest of all time.
01:38:00.000 100%.
01:38:01.000 He is so smooth.
01:38:03.000 When he was just, pap, pap, pap, pap, rip.
01:38:03.000 It's so good.
01:38:06.000 And doing that to Canelo, yeah.
01:38:09.000 Wow.
01:38:10.000 Oh, my goodness.
01:38:11.000 It was amazing to watch.
01:38:12.000 To watch a guy that's that skillful and have those skills and, you know, move up multiple weight classes.
01:38:19.000 Yeah, incredible.
01:38:20.000 And pull it off against a guy like Canelo.
01:38:22.000 And everybody said, like, oh, he's not going to have a shot because Canelo is going to be too big.
01:38:27.000 As soon as he hit him, he's going to get rocked.
01:38:29.000 And it's like, no, I think that was incredible.
01:38:33.000 And they were all at the fight.
01:38:34.000 It's the Pyramids, by the way.
01:38:35.000 Yeah.
01:38:36.000 That was a pretty good one.
01:38:37.000 Well, it's also, Terrence is very smart.
01:38:39.000 And Terrence prepared for that fight for like a year.
01:38:42.000 Yeah.
01:38:43.000 And put on some weight, but not too much.
01:38:45.000 You know, he did a lot of weightlifting, but just enough.
01:38:47.000 Yeah.
01:38:48.000 But just also, he was healthier because he didn't have to cut so much weight.
01:38:52.000 That's a thing to take into consideration.
01:38:52.000 No.
01:38:55.000 You got a guy who's cutting all that weight to make all the different weight classes that he was champion in, all the way up to 154.
01:39:00.000 And then all of a sudden, he doesn't have to cut weight.
01:39:02.000 Well, guess what?
01:39:03.000 He's probably walking around 176, 177 anyway.
01:39:07.000 Yeah.
01:39:08.000 So it was probably a better performance for him.
01:39:11.000 Like physically, he probably felt much better.
01:39:13.000 Yeah.
01:39:14.000 And he's also used to faster guys, and he's so light on his feet.
01:39:17.000 100%.
01:39:17.000 100%.
01:39:18.000 That was so exciting.
01:39:19.000 So, that's what, yeah, what he does.
01:39:22.000 He makes the fights that otherwise would have been made.
01:39:27.000 Right.
01:39:28.000 So, and I think I respect him for that so much, and I'm thankful for that as well.
01:39:34.000 So, let's see what he's going to pull out of the hat this time for me.
01:39:39.000 Well, I mean, for sure, now people are going to be excited about you fighting again.
01:39:44.000 And it's even more marketable by far than the first fight was.
01:39:50.000 I just hope it's a rematch.
01:39:51.000 I really do, because I think that's the just fight to have.
01:39:54.000 Yeah.
01:39:54.000 That's the correct fight to have a rematch.
01:39:56.000 When a fight is that close and ends that controversially, and then the judging is, the scoring is that bad, the right thing to do is to have a rematch.
01:40:06.000 Yeah, and then in a different, like I said, in a different environment, in a different situation, you know, death.
01:40:12.000 Vegas or Madison Square Garden?
01:40:15.000 I got to be honest, Joe.
01:40:17.000 They're both still on the bucket list.
01:40:19.000 Yeah.
01:40:20.000 I fought in New York, but it was like in, I don't know, in a ballroom, something.
01:40:24.000 I don't even remember what it was.
01:40:26.000 But it was, I think, 2012 or something.
01:40:30.000 So, yeah, Madison Square Garden and Vegas are still on the bucket list.
01:40:34.000 Look, Vegas is great, but Madison Square Garden is iconic.
01:40:38.000 Yeah.
01:40:38.000 There's something about being in that building.
01:40:40.000 Every time we have fights, we do a UFC in that building.
01:40:43.000 It's like, wow, we're in the garden.
01:40:45.000 Like, that is a special place to be.
01:40:47.000 Yeah, there's so many things that happen there.
01:40:49.000 Concerts and basketball, whatever.
01:40:52.000 Yeah.
01:40:52.000 Everything.
01:40:53.000 So many concerts, so many fights, so many everything.
01:40:55.000 It's just, and it's also in New York City.
01:40:59.000 And as much as New York City is crazy and it's like, it's beep, beep, and honk, honk, and fuck you, it's still New York motherfucking city.
01:41:08.000 And to have a great world championship fight in New York City is something special.
01:41:13.000 There's something, you feel different when they say, live from Madison Square Garden.
01:41:17.000 You're like, oh shit, it's not.
01:41:19.000 Yeah, you feel it.
01:41:19.000 Yeah.
01:41:20.000 You know, when you're in the room, when we have fights there, being in the room feels different.
01:41:27.000 Yeah, 100%.
01:41:28.000 But that's also one of the things that, That he did a fight on Times Square.
01:41:34.000 I know.
01:41:35.000 Who thinks of that?
01:41:36.000 I know.
01:41:37.000 And the thing is, for him, I believe that whenever you hear something and you say, nah, that's not possible, I think that's the right trigger.
01:41:47.000 That's exactly the trigger he needs.
01:41:49.000 Like, I'll make it possible.
01:41:51.000 I'll make it happen.
01:41:52.000 It's the same with the pyramids.
01:41:53.000 And then with the Times Square, it's like, nah, I don't think that's going to happen.
01:41:58.000 Well, they have a bottomless bank account.
01:42:00.000 Yeah.
01:42:02.000 That's the thing.
01:42:03.000 It's like they can just.
01:42:04.000 They make things possible.
01:42:06.000 They just throw so much money at guys.
01:42:08.000 And that is exciting.
01:42:10.000 I mean, that's something that boxing has needed because it's.
01:42:13.000 Look, it took so long to get Floyd Mayweather to fight Manny Pacquiao.
01:42:17.000 That was a gigantic fight.
01:42:17.000 Yeah.
01:42:17.000 Right?
01:42:19.000 It took forever.
01:42:20.000 And arguably, Manny was past his prime when they wound up actually fighting again, which pissed a lot of people off.
01:42:26.000 If they had been around back then, if Turkey Alashek had been around back then, They and Riyadh season have been around back then.
01:42:34.000 They probably would have made that happen when they're in their prime.
01:42:36.000 100%.
01:42:38.000 That's what boxing needs.
01:42:39.000 That's what MMA needs.
01:42:41.000 That's what everybody needs.
01:42:42.000 The UFC does that in MMA.
01:42:43.000 They kind of force guys to fight.
01:42:45.000 You can't get away from it.
01:42:47.000 No, only the payday is different.
01:42:49.000 Yes.
01:42:50.000 But at the highest levels, guys like Connor, they're making similar money.
01:42:54.000 But it's just that that needs to change in terms of it has to be enticing enough that you're going to get the best athletes that realize, like, hey, I don't have to go into basketball.
01:43:04.000 I don't have to go.
01:43:05.000 What I really like is fighting.
01:43:07.000 Yeah.
01:43:08.000 And there's enough money in fighting now.
01:43:10.000 Yeah, 100%.
01:43:11.000 Like everything else.
01:43:12.000 But that's the problem, like we just talked about, we started off with the whole kickboxing.
01:43:17.000 There's no money to be made.
01:43:19.000 Right.
01:43:19.000 That is the problem.
01:43:20.000 So, well, I made people money.
01:43:22.000 Maybe we can figure that out.
01:43:22.000 I made people money.
01:43:24.000 Because, you know, they're dedicated to entering into the MMA space now, and they just merged with the PFL.
01:43:29.000 Yeah.
01:43:29.000 Which I think is very exciting.
01:43:31.000 Because I think competition is good.
01:43:34.000 Competition is great, and the more competition, the better, and definitely better for the fighters to have options.
01:43:40.000 And they've got guys over there in the PFL now that are fucking world class, man.
01:43:40.000 100%.
01:43:46.000 They've got some world class fighters.
01:43:49.000 So it's exciting.
01:43:50.000 It's exciting to have.
01:43:51.000 They just need to get bigger in terms of the public's recognition.
01:43:54.000 Exactly.
01:43:55.000 So right now, everybody thinks of UFC as being MMA.
01:43:58.000 It's like PFL for the average casual.
01:43:58.000 UFC.
01:44:00.000 It's like, what?
01:44:01.000 Who's that?
01:44:02.000 Yeah, exactly.
01:44:02.000 What do they do?
01:44:03.000 Right.
01:44:04.000 Yeah, but I think, to be honest, Joe, if we look at.
01:44:07.000 10 years ago, combat sports is at its all time high.
01:44:13.000 Boxing, MMA, kickboxing, everything is like going through the roof.
01:44:18.000 So everything is bigger now.
01:44:19.000 I think we're in a very blessed position.
01:44:22.000 Well, 20 years ago, nobody even knew what MMA was.
01:44:25.000 21 years ago, it was the first Ultimate Fighter, season one, 2005.
01:44:30.000 And that was really when MMA kind of made it onto the map in terms of the general public understanding of it.
01:44:36.000 From the Ultimate Fighter and that Stefan Bonner Forrest Griffin fight.
01:44:39.000 Yeah.
01:44:39.000 But you could see a world where kickboxing could enter into that, you know, 10 years from now be in a similar category.
01:44:47.000 And I think it should be.
01:44:49.000 I really do.
01:44:49.000 And it's just because of the modern day world, because of social media and so many different people coming into the sport.
01:44:59.000 And people can say and have an opinion about it.
01:45:02.000 But, for example, with Jake Paul and et cetera and all the influencers, but they're bringing a lot of new eyes to the combat sport, to boxing.
01:45:12.000 A lot of new eyes.
01:45:14.000 Could you imagine if an organization got behind a guy like Ramon Deckers?
01:45:20.000 And showed him to the American public when he was in his prime.
01:45:24.000 He would be like, holy shit.
01:45:27.000 Who is this guy?
01:45:29.000 This fucking monster, this animal.
01:45:33.000 This technical animal.
01:45:36.000 That's the thing about where you come from, too.
01:45:39.000 For people that don't know, kickboxing in Holland is the epicenter of world championship kickboxing.
01:45:47.000 I mean, Rob Kamen, Ernesto Hughes, you.
01:45:51.000 I mean, Peter Ernst.
01:45:53.000 Oh, my God.
01:45:54.000 God, you could go on and on and on and on and on.
01:45:56.000 So many of the greatest kickboxers, of course, Ramon Deckers, but so many of the greatest kickboxers of all time came from Holland.
01:46:03.000 100%.
01:46:04.000 You know, I mean, we mentioned Badr Hari.
01:46:07.000 I mean, so many of these great, Melvin Manhoof, so many of these great guys came out of Holland.
01:46:13.000 It's kind of nuts if you really think about it.
01:46:16.000 Yeah, now we're such a small country, and everybody exchanges their intelligence with each other.
01:46:25.000 And I believe that because we're such a small country, that's what increases the level so much everybody trains also with each other go there we go sparring with them we go sparring with them we go sparring with them and then
01:46:38.000 you learn this from that guy you learn that from that guy and if you do that for example in in the us you want to train with somebody out from new york you got to fly all the way there you're not going to stay there too long i think it just takes too much time and because in our country we can just drive anywhere and it's but it's also one of the reasons why pay-per-view never worked there because if they if they wanted to to to visit An event,
01:47:04.000 just drive there.
01:47:05.000 Like, I'm not going to stay home and pay for it.
01:47:07.000 That doesn't make any sense.
01:47:08.000 I'll just drive there and just go watch it live.
01:47:11.000 Well, that's also why the crowds are so huge.
01:47:12.000 Because you guys got massive crowds for some of those kickboxing.
01:47:17.000 People don't know in America, they don't know how big kickboxing is in Holland.
01:47:22.000 In the Netherlands, it's gigantic.
01:47:24.000 Yeah.
01:47:25.000 Yeah.
01:47:25.000 No, it's like, I think, number two sport.
01:47:28.000 That's crazy.
01:47:29.000 It's soccer.
01:47:29.000 Isn't that funny?
01:47:30.000 Yeah.
01:47:31.000 Yeah.
01:47:32.000 It's kind of crazy if you think about it.
01:47:34.000 It's such a small.
01:47:35.000 How many people even live in Holland?
01:47:38.000 60 70 million,
01:47:41.000 yeah, that's nuts.
01:47:43.000 It's a small country with the greatest kickboxers of all time.
01:47:47.000 It's like it's an anomaly, it's very weird, yeah, very weird how it happened.
01:47:51.000 Yeah, and also, like, I think this now for the last, I think after like the last 10 years, it's we've been so good in kickboxing for the last 25 years or even longer, but now,
01:48:08.000 since the last 10 years, it's been recognized as well.
01:48:12.000 For the public, we've always been good at it, but it's always been like, I don't know, a little bit shady or whatever.
01:48:18.000 And now, since the last 10 years, since me and Bader put it on the map, just exploded.
01:48:26.000 And everybody just went behind it, like, wow, this is cool.
01:48:30.000 This is cool to watch.
01:48:31.000 We're good at this.
01:48:33.000 We're the best in the world at this sport.
01:48:36.000 Are there gyms all over the place in Holland?
01:48:39.000 It was crazy.
01:48:41.000 At a certain point, it was so crazy that every random guy could become a kickboxing teacher.
01:48:47.000 So now, because it became so big and so public, they started to do it like, okay, you got to get like a diploma and a certificate to become a kickboxing trainer.
01:49:01.000 You cannot just random say, like, hey, I'm a kickboxing trainer.
01:49:04.000 Start kickboxing and start teaching people.
01:49:06.000 But at a certain point, that was the case.
01:49:08.000 Wow.
01:49:09.000 Yeah, it was crazy.
01:49:11.000 So what happened?
01:49:12.000 How did Holland become so big in kickboxing?
01:49:15.000 I think they, yeah, with Ramon Deckers and everything, they went to Thailand and just like sucked all the information out of that.
01:49:27.000 And we had fighters, trainers going there.
01:49:30.000 And they took like the Muay Thai of it and they took that to the Netherlands and then like exchanged, like I said, because the country is so small, they exchange everything with each other.
01:49:43.000 Like this guy learned that, that guy learned that.
01:49:45.000 And if you exchange that with each other, You just get better and you get smarter.
01:49:49.000 But it also has to be something about the culture.
01:49:51.000 That might be just the mentality of the heart.
01:49:53.000 Yeah.
01:49:54.000 We're pretty big people.
01:49:56.000 Yeah, pretty big people.
01:49:57.000 But Rob can't, I mean, excuse me, Ramon Deckers was not big.
01:50:00.000 He was not big.
01:50:00.000 No, he was not big.
01:50:01.000 Which was one of the most extraordinary parts of his career was that he was competing against ties at bare weight.
01:50:07.000 But in Muay Thai.
01:50:08.000 Yes.
01:50:09.000 Wow.
01:50:10.000 Yes.
01:50:10.000 That was insane with elbows and it was brutal.
01:50:14.000 But his boxing, too, was a giant factor.
01:50:17.000 So explosive.
01:50:18.000 So explosive.
01:50:19.000 And his style was so explosive.
01:50:22.000 Yeah, like he was like just ongoing.
01:50:24.000 He was feral.
01:50:25.000 He was just like, people who haven't seen, please go to YouTube and watch Ramon Decker's highlights.
01:50:30.000 Yeah, whoo!
01:50:32.000 Yeah, it is.
01:50:33.000 Oh my god, some of the highlights of his knockout highlights.
01:50:36.000 Like, holy shit, man, it's incredible!
01:50:40.000 Everything was designed to kill you.
01:50:42.000 Yeah, every shot, every leg kick, every liver shot, every punch to the face, everything was just with full speed ahead, power explosion, smash.
01:50:52.000 Yeah, his ankle was so fucking.
01:50:55.000 Up that his doctor told him, like, you can't keep kicking with that thing, like, you're gonna lose your ankle.
01:51:00.000 Yeah, fucking taped it up, still blasting people.
01:51:03.000 I was like a kid and I was watching these fights, like, oh my god, it was.
01:51:09.000 And then with him being so explosive and then kicking on a block, on a knee or on an elbow, she's like, just right in there.
01:51:19.000 He's just like, oh, it's just bone on bone.
01:51:21.000 Uh huh.
01:51:22.000 Oh, just by looking at it, it just hurts.
01:51:25.000 Just destroyed his ankle because of that.
01:51:27.000 I mean, in his later fights, later in his years, like when he fought Dwayne Ludwig, I mean, he had to have his ankle taped all over the fucking place.
01:51:34.000 Big thing was like hanging on by a thread.
01:51:37.000 But that's what we were talking about earlier.
01:51:41.000 It's like we as fighters putting our health on the line for entertainment.
01:51:50.000 I mean, forever.
01:51:51.000 He died young.
01:51:51.000 Yeah, he died young.
01:51:53.000 But, okay, that happens.
01:51:55.000 You do that because you love the sport.
01:51:57.000 But then, yeah, everything.
01:51:59.000 Needs to be transparent and it needs to be safe and with the judging, yeah.
01:52:04.000 It needs to be, it needs to be, and best so money wise and with the judging, and everything just needs to be, yeah, needs to be right because what we do is out of this world, yes.
01:52:15.000 And it's not just kickboxing, it's boxing, it's MMA.
01:52:18.000 That's what all that's what we do.
01:52:20.000 The reason why it's so exciting, it's part of the reason why it's so exciting is we know how dangerous it is, exactly.
01:52:26.000 But it and that's why I feel like it has to be, it has to be fair and it needs to be.
01:52:32.000 compensated the right way.
01:52:33.000 Yeah.
01:52:34.000 So everybody's like, oh, he's making so much money yet.
01:52:36.000 Okay, but he can only, he can't do that till he's 65 or whatever.
01:52:40.000 So, yeah, there's such a small window, which is one of the things that's so extraordinary about your career that you've managed to stay on top for so long.
01:52:49.000 Because generally, when we look at world class fighters, there's a rule that a lot of experts supposedly have said is that it's about nine years.
01:53:01.000 You can only really compete in your prime for nine years.
01:53:06.000 You've shown yourself to be an exception to that rule because you've been competing in your prime for a lot longer than that.
01:53:12.000 Yeah, 12.
01:53:13.000 Yeah, and you're not dropping off at all.
01:53:16.000 And you weren't dropping off.
01:53:17.000 You were still dominant in kickboxing when you decided to step away.
01:53:21.000 So it's like, even though you are an outlier and that you've been able to extend it longer than anybody, it's still, there's a window.
01:53:28.000 You're not going to be able to do this when you're 50.
01:53:30.000 You're not going to be able to do this when you're 60.
01:53:31.000 It's like you have a small window where you can compete.
01:53:35.000 And the people are paying to see you.
01:53:38.000 They're not paying to see the promoter.
01:53:40.000 They're not paying to see anything else.
01:53:42.000 They're not paying to hear the commentators.
01:53:44.000 They're paying to see the fighters perform.
01:53:46.000 Perform at the very highest level of the most exciting sport on earth.
01:53:51.000 Yeah, but that's why I'm saying this because it's not as much for me anymore because I'm close to being finished.
01:54:00.000 Right.
01:54:00.000 You know, like we said, I'm in the winner of my career, but it's for the next generation.
01:54:05.000 Yes.
01:54:06.000 The next generation should be excited to get into combat sports and feel like, hey, I want to do this because I can and it is fair, it is transparent, and I'm fighting, but I can make.
01:54:20.000 A very good living out of this, and I could build generational wealth with it.
01:54:26.000 Well, that's what's really good about this MVP PFL merger and having a bunch of hype on that.
01:54:33.000 The more competition, the better.
01:54:35.000 The more eyes on the sport, the more people watch the sport, the more money will be in the sport, and then the more the fighters will have options for who to fight for.
01:54:43.000 Yeah, yeah, and I think that's the best thing.
01:54:45.000 Like you just said, options.
01:54:48.000 Yeah, no, it's phenomenal.
01:54:49.000 If you have options, that's the best thing ever, right?
01:54:51.000 Yeah.
01:54:52.000 He's like, hey, we got this, we got that.
01:54:53.000 And it's not that you got to, like, play them out against each other, but still, it is a good thing because if you just have one option, it's like, hey, take it or leave it.
01:55:03.000 Exactly.
01:55:04.000 This is what it is.
01:55:05.000 And if you get, like, ah, the other guy's saying this, so let me go there.
01:55:08.000 Reality is we could use one more, you know, not just MVP, but also another.
01:55:13.000 I wish one was doing better, you know, if one was doing better and they were a viable option as well.
01:55:18.000 Because I know some guys did go over there with great success, like Mighty Mouse went over there with great success.
01:55:23.000 We need more.
01:55:23.000 We need more options for fighters, and, you know, it's.
01:55:27.000 It's unusual in that in boxing, for instance, what's really important is the name of the fighters.
01:55:35.000 That's what's important.
01:55:36.000 If Dimitri Bival is fighting, people are going to see.
01:55:39.000 They don't give a fuck who the promoter is.
01:55:41.000 They want to see Bival fight.
01:55:42.000 If it's Arthur Betterbeev, they want to see him fight.
01:55:45.000 That's all everybody gives a shit about.
01:55:46.000 In MMA, it's UFC.
01:55:49.000 And the exception to that was, of course, this last MVP card where Ronda Rousey fought.
01:55:54.000 So everybody's like, oh my God, she's a legend.
01:55:56.000 She's fighting.
01:55:57.000 And Francis Ngana was on the card.
01:55:59.000 A lot of eyeballs got on that, so we need more of that.
01:56:02.000 And more of that is good for everybody.
01:56:04.000 Like, build, like, we just talked about, build stories around those people.
01:56:09.000 Yes, who are those people next to being fighters?
01:56:13.000 Okay, they're incredibly amazing in what they do in the ring or in the octagon or whatever.
01:56:19.000 Okay, but who is the person behind?
01:56:22.000 Right, right, okay.
01:56:23.000 Oh, he's a father.
01:56:24.000 Oh, really?
01:56:25.000 He has two.
01:56:25.000 I never knew.
01:56:26.000 Oh, he used to play chess.
01:56:27.000 Yeah, exactly.
01:56:28.000 Yeah, so that gives them so much more.
01:56:32.000 Depth and I also believe that that makes them more human.
01:56:37.000 Yes, for sure.
01:56:38.000 Seeing their family, seeing them interact with their kids.
01:56:40.000 So everybody gets like closer to, oh, wow, this guy could be my neighbor.
01:56:46.000 Right.
01:56:47.000 Because he also has kids, oh, he brings his kids to school and whatever.
01:56:47.000 Right.
01:56:50.000 Yeah, you're invested in him.
01:56:51.000 Yeah.
01:56:51.000 Like you like him, you want him to win.
01:56:53.000 100%.
01:56:54.000 Yeah.
01:56:54.000 I mean, that's a big part of it, and that's something that they need to do.
01:56:57.000 And I think you're right about Glory.
01:56:58.000 They really never did that.
01:57:00.000 That was not really a part of the Glory promotion.
01:57:02.000 No.
01:57:03.000 They're just like, put up fights, put the best versus the best.
01:57:06.000 Listen, for me, I don't care.
01:57:07.000 It was fucking great.
01:57:09.000 It worked.
01:57:09.000 I love it.
01:57:10.000 I'm a giant Glory fan, man.
01:57:11.000 Every time there's a card, I can't wait.
01:57:13.000 I watch it and people are like, What are you watching?
01:57:15.000 I'm like, Glory's on.
01:57:16.000 They're like, What the fuck is Glory?
01:57:18.000 I've never heard about that.
01:57:20.000 It's like, even my friends in MMA don't understand.
01:57:24.000 Wow, the real people that the trainers and everybody, a lot of times they get the Glory fighters in to prepare their fighters to get into UFC.
01:57:34.000 Yeah.
01:57:35.000 Or for big fights or whatever because, like, hey, they know that their stand up is on an elite level.
01:57:39.000 Yeah.
01:57:40.000 Elite.
01:57:40.000 I mean, and like I said, 1FC has a lot of elite fighters.
01:57:46.000 Especially at the lighter weight classes, there's a lot of really good.
01:57:48.000 Jonathan Haggerty, he just beat Yuki Yoza, who's another guy, this guy from Japan, is a Kyokushin guy who fucks up people's legs, and he's really good.
01:57:57.000 And then there's this guy from Dagestan who might be the best striker alive Azadullah Iman Gazaliev.
01:58:04.000 This dude, he's really tall and he fights at 135 pounds, and he's fucking nasty, man.
01:58:10.000 He's so technical, undefeated, and he's from Dagestan.
01:58:13.000 There's so many savages that are coming out of Dagestan, just straight up.
01:58:18.000 Killers, man.
01:58:20.000 There's a dude who just won in the PFL, Magomerov, who just won in the PFL this past weekend.
01:58:24.000 He fights like Imam Ghazaliyev.
01:58:26.000 Real similar.
01:58:27.000 Both guys from Dagestan.
01:58:28.000 Similar styles, man.
01:58:30.000 Question mark kicks and elite stabbing front kicks and just real slick stand up.
01:58:30.000 I love it.
01:58:37.000 But in 1FC, they're having these guys fighting, and it's really big in Asia, but it just has not caught on in America.
01:58:45.000 No, and I think that's also where the problem is, I think, with them, but also with Glory.
01:58:52.000 They're just like pouring in money, pouring in money.
01:58:55.000 And at a certain moment, it's like, I also understand, like, the one that's investing in you, like, how much money am I going to need to pour in this before it's going to do something?
01:59:05.000 You know, they asked me to be a part of that at one point in time.
01:59:09.000 They wanted me to be like the Dana White of glory.
01:59:11.000 I'm like, I don't have that kind of time.
01:59:13.000 I don't have that kind of time.
01:59:15.000 Exactly.
01:59:16.000 If you were going to say, I don't have that type of money, I'm not going to look at you like, come on.
01:59:20.000 It's the time.
01:59:21.000 It would be the time.
01:59:22.000 You're so busy.
01:59:22.000 You're so busy.
01:59:24.000 I know how hard Dana works.
01:59:26.000 Dana works all day, every day.
01:59:28.000 That guy's always doing something.
01:59:30.000 He's always got deals going.
01:59:31.000 He's always on the phone.
01:59:32.000 He's always meetings and headaches and canceled fights and this and that and trying to make things happen and promotions and press conferences.
01:59:40.000 They want to change.
01:59:41.000 I would never half ass something like that.
01:59:43.000 You can't do that.
01:59:44.000 To be a promoter is a full time job.
01:59:48.000 It's a full time job.
01:59:50.000 And Dana set the bar very, very high.
01:59:52.000 And he's the best ever, I think.
01:59:54.000 I think he's the greatest promoter of all time.
01:59:56.000 And for me to do that, I couldn't.
01:59:59.000 There's no way.
02:00:00.000 That's why it's so cool that he jumps into boxing now.
02:00:03.000 That he's going to give that.
02:00:03.000 Yeah.
02:00:05.000 Very exciting.
02:00:05.000 Yeah.
02:00:06.000 To try.
02:00:07.000 Well, I mean, people are always nervous when a new guy steps into a sport, but I think it's only better for him.
02:00:13.000 Fresh locks his reputation.
02:00:15.000 It's only with money.
02:00:15.000 Yeah.
02:00:18.000 And the amount of money they're throwing at the boxers.
02:00:20.000 The MMA guys are like, hey, what the fuck?
02:00:23.000 Where's that money for us?
02:00:24.000 Yeah.
02:00:25.000 But they still need to build up.
02:00:27.000 It's all good for everybody.
02:00:28.000 The more money there is in the sport, the more attention, the more excitement, it's better for everybody.
02:00:33.000 It's better for everybody.
02:00:33.000 Who would that be?
02:00:34.000 If there would be a world where MMA fighters, UFC fighters, would also be able to get into Zufa and, like, hey, you're a good boxer.
02:00:45.000 We see, like, maybe there's something.
02:00:48.000 It's possible that they would do that, but right now they're not concentrating on that.
02:00:51.000 They're just concentrating on that.
02:00:51.000 They first need to position themselves as, but, like, for the future.
02:00:56.000 It would be, but then if you've got a big star, like, say, if you take a guy like Max Holloway or someone like that and he decides he wants to box for a while, that means he's not going to be able to fight an MMA fight.
02:01:04.000 So that would, like, cut off.
02:01:06.000 Their own access to him as an MMA fighter, and he's a huge star.
02:01:11.000 Yeah, but maybe then he attracts different eyeballs too.
02:01:14.000 Yeah, but to do it right, you got to do it kind of like when Connor did it with Floyd.
02:01:18.000 He took a whole year off, and he was just boxing.
02:01:21.000 I mean, he really, really concentrated on that.
02:01:24.000 And then you can't go back into MMA again because then.
02:01:27.000 It kind of messed him up.
02:01:28.000 It kind of messed him up going back into MMA again.
02:01:30.000 He didn't have the same momentum, it wasn't the same amount of training.
02:01:34.000 Training lost with grappling.
02:01:37.000 And especially with kickboxing.
02:01:38.000 You know, like, oh, you're only doing boxing, that training lost.
02:01:42.000 Like, you have to recalibrate your whole breakfast forever.
02:01:46.000 And I was just, it was just excitement.
02:01:46.000 Yeah.
02:01:48.000 Yeah.
02:01:49.000 It was just my excitement to put it out there.
02:01:50.000 But listen, for some guys, it might be a good option, you know, and for some guys, especially after knee injuries, you know, where boxing is not as hard on the knees, you know, you could say that, especially when it comes to grappling and leg kicks,
02:02:03.000 especially like those guys that throw those side kicks to the knee.
02:02:07.000 Oh, my God.
02:02:07.000 Those calf kicks.
02:02:08.000 Yeah.
02:02:09.000 I know.
02:02:10.000 Oh, my God.
02:02:10.000 Crazy.
02:02:11.000 Crazy.
02:02:12.000 Oh, it's crazy.
02:02:13.000 But they also, after that, after they saw that within UFC, within MMA, in kickboxing, they also started trying to do that.
02:02:21.000 Isn't it nuts that it took forever for the calf kick to be a potent weapon like that?
02:02:25.000 But it's so dangerous.
02:02:26.000 It's also dangerous because if you hit the shin, it's like, oh, it's the last kick you throw.
02:02:33.000 Yeah.
02:02:33.000 But if you do it right.
02:02:34.000 Yeah, if you do it right, like Alex Pereira destroys people's legs, destroys them.
02:02:39.000 I don't even know how.
02:02:41.000 It looks like he.
02:02:42.000 He kicks it with the foot, with the side of the foot.
02:02:45.000 It's not even really like a low kick or whatever.
02:02:47.000 It's weird.
02:02:48.000 He does it weird.
02:02:49.000 And he does it with no tell.
02:02:50.000 No.
02:02:51.000 No switching of the hips at all.
02:02:52.000 He just throws the leg out there and it only takes a couple.
02:02:55.000 Yeah.
02:02:56.000 He takes a couple and then your leg's fucked.
02:02:57.000 And then you see guys switch his dances.
02:02:59.000 Yeah, then it's over.
02:03:00.000 It's proven funny.
02:03:00.000 Then it's over.
02:03:01.000 That kid that I was talking to you about in Japan, Yuki Yoza, he's phenomenal at that, man.
02:03:06.000 His calf kicks are insane.
02:03:08.000 He's just in every exchange, every exchange, he's kicking the calves inside and outside.
02:03:13.000 A Kyokushin guy.
02:03:14.000 So it's just all just hard style inside outside inside outside.
02:03:18.000 What is your opinion on that?
02:03:20.000 Because me and my trainer we were debating the the the calf kick because next to it being super effective It's also a long long-term injury when you get put out by Calf kicks.
02:03:35.000 Yeah, because it that injury stays there for quite a while.
02:03:38.000 Oh, yeah, it's brutal.
02:03:40.000 It's brutal.
02:03:40.000 So do you do you think like it's a thing that should stare at you 100 percent?
02:03:45.000 It's effective.
02:03:46.000 I mean, it's real.
02:03:48.000 Listen, if you can knee bar a guy, you could heel hook a guy, you could rip his knee apart, you've got to be able to calf kick.
02:03:55.000 You know, it's a weapon.
02:03:57.000 To take away that weapon when we know how effective it is, you got guys who are always used to standing heavy on that front leg.
02:04:05.000 Now all of a sudden they can't do that anymore.
02:04:07.000 Like Connor, perfect example.
02:04:09.000 In the window between Connor taking time off, fighting Floyd Mayweather, fighting Khabib, and then getting back in MMA, then the calf kick came along.
02:04:19.000 He never fought with.
02:04:19.000 He destroyed it.
02:04:20.000 There was no calf kicks before.
02:04:22.000 Dustin Poirier destroyed his leg.
02:04:23.000 Yeah.
02:04:24.000 In that first round, by the time the second round was rolling around in their second fight, he was already wobbling on that front leg.
02:04:30.000 Yeah.
02:04:30.000 Crazy.
02:04:31.000 Yeah.
02:04:31.000 Crazy that it took so long for that one technique.
02:04:34.000 Yeah.
02:04:35.000 It's just the thing you see, and like, hey, that's effective.
02:04:35.000 Yeah.
02:04:39.000 Everybody started doing it.
02:04:40.000 But again, dangerous.
02:04:41.000 Like you said, you go, I mean, this is how Chris Weidman broke his leg.
02:04:44.000 Yeah.
02:04:45.000 You know, he threw a really hard low kick and he caught the knee.
02:04:48.000 He caught the shin right below the knee and snapped his leg in half.
02:04:51.000 Yeah.
02:04:52.000 If it gets checked and you've hit it the wrong way, especially if you hit the low part of yours and the high part of his where it's thick and dense.
02:05:00.000 Yeah.
02:05:01.000 That's the hardest part.
02:05:02.000 Yeah.
02:05:03.000 But it's so effective.
02:05:04.000 It has to stay.
02:05:06.000 The thing that bothers me more than that.
02:05:08.000 Okay, I'm happy.
02:05:09.000 I'm happy.
02:05:10.000 The sidekicks to the knee bother me more.
02:05:13.000 Ooh, that's, yeah.
02:05:14.000 Did you ever see Khalil Roundtree and Modestus Bokaskis?
02:05:17.000 Oh, it's the worst one of all time.
02:05:17.000 You ever see that?
02:05:20.000 You see the leg like.
02:05:21.000 It turned sideways.
02:05:23.000 He threw a sidekick, caught him on the front leg, and just turned his whole leg sideways.
02:05:27.000 And he screamed, and the fight was over.
02:05:28.000 He would rip everything apart.
02:05:29.000 Oh, yeah, he had surgery.
02:05:31.000 Had to have surgery after the fight.
02:05:32.000 His leg was destroyed.
02:05:34.000 When John Jones fought Tiago Santos.
02:05:36.000 I think it was Tiago Santos.
02:05:38.000 I think it was.
02:05:40.000 Yeah, Tiago Santos.
02:05:41.000 He blew out both his legs.
02:05:43.000 He had to have knee surgery on both legs after the fight.
02:05:46.000 Both legs.
02:05:47.000 That's crazy.
02:05:48.000 Crazy.
02:05:49.000 Because just throwing those oblique kicks and the side kick to the knee blew out both his knees.
02:05:54.000 That's a kick I don't like.
02:05:55.000 When Ian Gary fought Shavkat, Shavkat Rachmanov, who's a top welterweight guy, one of the top contenders, he hit him with an oblique kick in his left knee, and his knee's been fucked ever since.
02:06:06.000 And he had to have surgery, he had a second surgery, and he's still out.
02:06:10.000 Yeah.
02:06:11.000 Yeah.
02:06:12.000 That's what bothers me about that is that you might not ever recover.
02:06:16.000 If your knee gets ripped to shreds, your meniscus gets torn apart, your ACL, MCL gets blown out.
02:06:22.000 So, this is Khalil Rountree.
02:06:23.000 Watch this.
02:06:25.000 Oh.
02:06:25.000 Oh.
02:06:28.000 Oh, yeah.
02:06:29.000 Watch it from this angle.
02:06:30.000 Look at how.
02:06:31.000 Oh, man.
02:06:32.000 It screams.
02:06:34.000 Horrible.
02:06:35.000 Horrible.
02:06:36.000 I wonder about that one.
02:06:37.000 Look at that.
02:06:38.000 Oh, look at that.
02:06:39.000 Because I feel like that one maybe is too much.
02:06:41.000 Yeah.
02:06:42.000 Because it's just like.
02:06:43.000 It's just a career ender.
02:06:45.000 A career ender, yeah.
02:06:46.000 I mean, if we're.
02:06:47.000 I don't know.
02:06:48.000 I'm torn.
02:06:49.000 Because on one hand, it's like it doesn't happen that often, and you should be able to defend against it.
02:06:55.000 And knowing it exists, you have to be able to defend against it.
02:06:58.000 But the thing is, one kick could change, and you're out for a year.
02:07:02.000 Yeah.
02:07:03.000 Like we said, a fighter really only has X amount of years to compete.
02:07:06.000 Yeah, so it's.
02:07:06.000 And one whole year gone from one kick is kind of crazy.
02:07:10.000 Yeah.
02:07:11.000 By the way, it's pretty extraordinary how you do that, how you know all those names and fights from.
02:07:17.000 I don't know how long ago, and you're just like.
02:07:19.000 Yeah, but I don't remember a lot of other things.
02:07:23.000 My memory is really good, but also kind of unreliable with some things.
02:07:27.000 It's just focused on the things I care about, which is a lot of it is combat sports.
02:07:32.000 But the knee one, that's the only one that really bothers me.
02:07:36.000 That and I think knees to the head to a grounded opponent.
02:07:40.000 I don't think.
02:07:40.000 No, that's not.
02:07:41.000 No.
02:07:42.000 You don't think they should be able to do that?
02:07:43.000 No.
02:07:44.000 I don't think you should be able to turn around.
02:07:47.000 On somebody's head, but they're not allowed to do that anymore.
02:07:49.000 You can't stomp, but you can.
02:07:50.000 And Ryzen allows you to stomp.
02:07:52.000 Yeah, like back in the day, they did that.
02:07:54.000 You used to be able to stomp and soccer kick.
02:07:54.000 Yep.
02:07:57.000 But, yeah.
02:07:58.000 They think when a guy shoots on your legs and just curls up in a fetal position and just holds on, you shouldn't be able to do that.
02:08:04.000 You should be able to knee that guy in the head because he doesn't have to hold on to that.
02:08:07.000 If your knee is free and he can knee you in the foot, you should have to adjust.
02:08:12.000 Yeah.
02:08:13.000 That's too legitimate of a technique.
02:08:15.000 Yeah.
02:08:16.000 You know, it's hard.
02:08:18.000 Yeah, if somebody's on the ground, they're like, The problem also is the cage versus the ring.
02:08:23.000 Because in a ring, soccer kicks make more sense and knees to the head make more sense because you can move around and you can get away from it because you could go under the rope.
02:08:33.000 Like if a knee's coming to your head, there's movement.
02:08:35.000 Whereas the cage, you're stuck right there.
02:08:38.000 I think that's another element of the fight that's an unnecessary element.
02:08:45.000 I think maybe even what Karate Combat's doing might be the best way to do it.
02:08:50.000 Yeah, what is it?
02:08:52.000 It's like a bowl.
02:08:53.000 Yeah, it looks nice.
02:08:54.000 I think that might be the best way to do it.
02:08:56.000 The only problem with that is when you get to the edge, you're stumbling because you're it's like half, you fall over it, and yeah.
02:09:03.000 But learn how to adjust to that, and that's better than a cage because a cage is just a fucking physical wall.
02:09:11.000 Yeah, so the thing about the ramp, the bowl, that shit doesn't help you get up at all.
02:09:16.000 No, like if somebody takes you down against that, that's you're not that doesn't help you.
02:09:20.000 Where a wall fucking helps you, and there's guys that are doing workouts now where they put their back up against a wall and they're doing kettlebell get ups.
02:09:30.000 Where they're lifting up heavy kettlebells and they're doing it in stages, getting up from the ground just to emulate that position.
02:09:39.000 But it's an element.
02:09:41.000 Yeah, but that's why I feel like everything has.
02:09:44.000 The ring has certain things because I feel like if you do MMA in a ring and somebody shoots or whatever, then maybe they go through the ropes, they shoot.
02:09:52.000 That's true, too, right?
02:09:53.000 So that's dangerous.
02:09:54.000 But then you see boxing.
02:09:56.000 Like when Bernard Hopkins fought Joe Smith Jr. and he went through the ropes and fell and landed on his head.
02:10:01.000 It's crazy.
02:10:02.000 That's how the fight ended.
02:10:03.000 It's like.
02:10:04.000 There's, there's, but I think that was just shitty planning.
02:10:07.000 I think they should have pads around the ring and they should, you know, in case someone falls, you shouldn't just hope they don't fall.
02:10:12.000 Have some, or have a larger apron too.
02:10:14.000 Yeah.
02:10:14.000 That's, you could, you could fix a lot with a much larger apron where if a guy falls out, there's something around the edge of the ring.
02:10:21.000 But I think a cage, the problem is in most people's eyes, UFC equals cage.
02:10:26.000 Yeah.
02:10:27.000 Like you fight in a cage.
02:10:28.000 And the mindset of it is pretty cool.
02:10:31.000 Yeah.
02:10:32.000 Because you get locked up.
02:10:33.000 Yeah, exactly.
02:10:34.000 You put that bar down.
02:10:36.000 Exactly.
02:10:36.000 Like you're not going nowhere.
02:10:38.000 Yeah.
02:10:39.000 There's something to be said for that.
02:10:40.000 Yeah, so it has something, but yeah, I was just saying, but like we just talked about, everything has its pros and its cons.
02:10:49.000 Everything has its pros and its cons, and everything is exciting in its own way.
02:10:52.000 Like boxing on its own, like there's elements of boxing that you would not see if they were allowed to do leg kicks and elbows and all that.
02:11:01.000 So there's something beautiful about just pure elite boxing.
02:11:05.000 And there's something pure about elite kickboxing, and then there's something pure about elite Muay Thai.
02:11:05.000 100%.
02:11:11.000 And then there's something pure about MMA, about watching it all together.
02:11:11.000 Yeah.
02:11:15.000 And jujitsu as well.
02:11:16.000 See, that's the other thing.
02:11:17.000 The UFC is doing UFC Brazilian jujitsu.
02:11:20.000 So they have these big UFC jujitsu matches.
02:11:23.000 Oh, really?
02:11:23.000 Yeah.
02:11:24.000 So, like, kickboxing.
02:11:26.000 Yeah, let's try it.
02:11:27.000 It's right there.
02:11:28.000 It's right there, guys.
02:11:30.000 I keep sending Dana White fights.
02:11:31.000 I send him fights because I'm trying to get him to do this.
02:11:34.000 I'm like, you should get involved.
02:11:36.000 I think he's too busy.
02:11:37.000 Yeah.
02:11:37.000 He's too busy.
02:11:38.000 He's also got that slap fight shit.
02:11:39.000 So he's doing that.
02:11:40.000 He's doing some crazy, yeah.
02:11:41.000 Like, fuck off.
02:11:42.000 I'll never get into this.
02:11:43.000 Fuck off.
02:11:44.000 It's fun to watch, but it's like, oh my God.
02:11:47.000 It's fun to watch.
02:11:47.000 It's like, well, why just stand there and just take a punch?
02:11:50.000 I just like try to move around and just slip and slide.
02:11:53.000 You know, you just stand there.
02:11:54.000 You just stand there with your hands behind your back holding onto a thing.
02:11:57.000 Just take it on the face.
02:11:58.000 Like, fuck that.
02:11:59.000 Yeah, you're a pretty big animal if you do that.
02:12:03.000 You're a.
02:12:03.000 Yeah.
02:12:05.000 That's why for me, now experiencing boxing, I really can really genuinely say that I see boxing as an art.
02:12:15.000 Oh, for sure.
02:12:16.000 And kickboxing has been my life.
02:12:20.000 It's brought me everything.
02:12:21.000 So it's so much fun, but it's more intense.
02:12:25.000 It's more brutal and it's quick.
02:12:28.000 It's like the pace is so fast.
02:12:30.000 And in the championship fights were just five rounds.
02:12:34.000 So if you lose one round, you're like, oh.
02:12:36.000 And now it's like, like I said, it's an art.
02:12:39.000 You have 12 rounds.
02:12:42.000 And I saw the Bevo Betabia fight.
02:12:46.000 And then for the first so many rounds, Betabia for so much better.
02:12:50.000 And then later in the round, and then.
02:12:52.000 Beevol still got the win.
02:12:53.000 Like, wow, how cool is that?
02:12:55.000 Well, if you look at the fight, you think, oh, this is not going to go well.
02:13:00.000 And then he adjusts.
02:13:02.000 And it changes.
02:13:03.000 So it's, like I said, I really feel like boxing is so much of an art, and you have 12 rounds to paint your masterpiece.
02:13:10.000 Yes.
02:13:12.000 And if you appreciate that art form, if you really understand it and appreciate it, it's beautiful to watch.
02:13:16.000 Like, it's beautiful to watch, like Floyd, when he was in his prime, 100%.
02:13:21.000 And Floyd, unlike anybody else, was standing right in front of everybody.
02:13:25.000 He was barely getting hit.
02:13:26.000 He was standing right there.
02:13:27.000 Yeah.
02:13:28.000 He wasn't running away and moving around.
02:13:30.000 He was right in front of guys and they couldn't hit him.
02:13:33.000 Extraordinary.
02:13:33.000 And that's what I also liked or still like about Canelo because after that fight, you saw the whole transition Canelo made.
02:13:43.000 And he took, I think, I truly believe that he took so much from that fight with Mayweather because then he started applying it himself.
02:13:51.000 Unquestionably.
02:13:52.000 And like, bop, bop, bop.
02:13:53.000 And like, oh, I love that.
02:13:53.000 He missed it.
02:13:55.000 Yes, unquestionably.
02:13:56.000 Yeah, his head movement got much better after that fight.
02:13:59.000 I mean, that's the thing that happens when you fight the elite.
02:14:02.000 Daniel Cormier always says, You get the rub.
02:14:05.000 Like, you fight an elite guy, win, lose, or draw, you get the rub.
02:14:09.000 Some of it rubs off on you.
02:14:10.000 Yeah, exactly.
02:14:11.000 So, that's why I'm excited to see you fight again, too.
02:14:14.000 I'm so excited to compete again, but let's see who it's going to be.
02:14:19.000 Well, let's hope this podcast gets the wheels turning.
02:14:23.000 We planted some seeds.
02:14:24.000 Yeah, maybe His Excellency will hear this and he'll decide that it's time to go.
02:14:30.000 I'll call you right after your joke.
02:14:33.000 It happened.
02:14:34.000 We did it.
02:14:34.000 Thanks.
02:14:35.000 That would make me very happy if we somehow or another motivated them to get back to the negotiation table.
02:14:42.000 But just let's make an agreement now.
02:14:44.000 Let's just make sure you're going to be there then.
02:14:46.000 What was the last conversation you guys had about it?
02:14:50.000 I think a week ago, a week and a half ago.
02:14:54.000 But it was more of a general conversation.
02:14:57.000 Hey, we're looking at what's next.
02:15:01.000 So, and what did you say to them?
02:15:03.000 Did you say rematch?
02:15:04.000 Of course, and what did they say?
02:15:07.000 Like, yeah, yeah, but yeah, you need to you need two parties for that.
02:15:12.000 Said, I know, make it happen.
02:15:14.000 Yeah, you gotta roll up to Uzik's house with the Brinks truck.
02:15:19.000 Yeah, back that thing up.
02:15:22.000 Exactly, get the armed guards, yeah, the door, show them all the gold.
02:15:28.000 That's maybe my name and my face on it.
02:15:33.000 Okay, yeah.
02:15:35.000 Put it in first.
02:15:36.000 I think that's the fight, and I hope you get it.
02:15:38.000 But either way, your performance was extraordinary, and you've had a fucking incredible career, man.
02:15:38.000 I really do.
02:15:46.000 You should be proud.
02:15:47.000 You've had an incredible career in kickboxing.
02:15:50.000 Greatest heavyweight kickboxer of all time.
02:15:51.000 Thank you so much.
02:15:52.000 I really appreciate that.
02:15:53.000 And it's not just for me being here, sitting here now, because I've been seeing you and hearing you talk about it for years already.
02:16:03.000 So, like I said, it really, really, really means the world coming from you because you're.
02:16:08.000 An expert.
02:16:09.000 You look at everything.
02:16:10.000 You see everything.
02:16:11.000 The different organizations.
02:16:13.000 So you know where to place certain guys from history and from now.
02:16:17.000 So it means the world.
02:16:19.000 Thank you so much.
02:16:20.000 My pleasure, brother.
02:16:21.000 It's an honor, an honor to have you here.
02:16:22.000 And again, thank you so much again for being here.
02:16:25.000 So it's been a while, but we're back.
02:16:27.000 Well, I had to reach out after the fight.
02:16:29.000 I was like, oh my God, we got to do this.
02:16:31.000 We got to talk.
02:16:32.000 100%.
02:16:32.000 I was like, holy shit, man.
02:16:34.000 I reached out immediately.
02:16:35.000 I was like, how the fuck you had it?
02:16:37.000 Oh.
02:16:38.000 Yeah.
02:16:40.000 Yeah.
02:16:40.000 I saw the episode you guys did about it.
02:16:43.000 You were talking about it.
02:16:44.000 I was like, oh my God.
02:16:46.000 It was incredible.
02:16:46.000 I know.
02:16:48.000 But listen, brother, congratulations on everything.
02:16:51.000 And I really, really, really hope you get that rematch.
02:16:53.000 Good seeing you, Ronnie.
02:16:54.000 Good seeing you too, sir.
02:16:55.000 Thank you very much, man.
02:16:56.000 Thanks, sir.
02:16:57.000 Thank you, everybody.
02:16:58.000 Bye.