The Joe Rogan Experience - August 20, 2026


Joe Rogan Experience #2543 - MrBallen


Episode Stats


Length

2 hours and 56 minutes

Words per minute

193.94

Word count

34,144

Sentence count

2,808


Transcript

Transcripts from "The Joe Rogan Experience" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan experience.
00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.
00:00:09.000 What's going on?
00:00:14.000 It's so good, man.
00:00:15.000 This is crazy.
00:00:15.000 I can't believe I'm here.
00:00:17.000 I can't believe anybody can't believe they're here.
00:00:20.000 I do.
00:00:21.000 This is like hallowed ground.
00:00:22.000 I mean, I've been watching you like the rest of the world for years.
00:00:25.000 I mean, I've seen so many clips of this space, so many references to Jamie, and to be here right now is very cool.
00:00:32.000 So I'm honored.
00:00:33.000 Thank you for that.
00:00:34.000 Oh, thank you.
00:00:34.000 I'm glad you're here.
00:00:34.000 Thank you.
00:00:35.000 Yeah, it is always weird when you go someplace where you, like, the first time I did Howard Stern, it felt the same way.
00:00:41.000 Like, you're in the building, like, what the fuck?
00:00:43.000 This is the actual Howard Stern show that I used to listen to on the radio.
00:00:46.000 Like, it really freaked me out.
00:00:48.000 I couldn't sleep the night before.
00:00:49.000 I did yoga in my hotel room to try to calm down.
00:00:52.000 When did you do this?
00:00:52.000 When was this?
00:00:54.000 Long time ago.
00:00:55.000 2000, probably one or something like that.
00:00:59.000 Was this like prime Fear Factor days?
00:01:02.000 I might have done it before I did Fear Factor.
00:01:02.000 You know what?
00:01:05.000 Great show, by the way, dude.
00:01:07.000 Great show.
00:01:07.000 Thank you.
00:01:08.000 Seriously.
00:01:10.000 It was a good sign our society was about to crumble.
00:01:16.000 When historians go back and look at the decline of society, remember when they started making people eat dicks on TV?
00:01:23.000 They started making people eat animal balls and animal dicks on TV.
00:01:26.000 That might have been.
00:01:27.000 That was the start.
00:01:28.000 And then it was Rogan's interview on that show.
00:01:32.000 What's his name again?
00:01:33.000 I just blacked out the guy you just said you had an interview with.
00:01:36.000 Howard Stern.
00:01:37.000 Howard Stern.
00:01:38.000 I did.
00:01:40.000 We did Fear Factor.
00:01:42.000 It started airing right after September 11th.
00:01:45.000 Like, literally right after.
00:01:47.000 Fear Factor did.
00:01:48.000 Uh huh.
00:01:49.000 And one of the narratives, one of the reporters asked me, and like one of those stupid press junket things you have to do, was, Do you think it's appropriate to scare Americans right after what just happened in 9 11?
00:02:02.000 I was like, What the fuck are you talking about?
00:02:04.000 It's on me now?
00:02:05.000 I'm like, What are you talking about?
00:02:07.000 It's distraction, it's entertainment, and they're eating animal.
00:02:11.000 Dicks.
00:02:12.000 Okay.
00:02:12.000 Very simple.
00:02:13.000 Shut the fuck up.
00:02:16.000 Watch it or don't watch it.
00:02:18.000 Who cares?
00:02:19.000 But it's like if you wanted to look at where society started, it used to be like Friends, Seinfeld, fucking, you know?
00:02:27.000 The good old days.
00:02:28.000 Miami Vice.
00:02:28.000 The good old days.
00:02:30.000 It was television shows that were like shows.
00:02:33.000 And then all of a sudden, anybody could be on TV if you're willing to eat the animal dicks.
00:02:38.000 It's true.
00:02:39.000 That was the threshold.
00:02:40.000 Pretty good.
00:02:40.000 Yeah.
00:02:41.000 It's weird because that kind of ushered in social media.
00:02:44.000 It's very similar in a lot of ways.
00:02:46.000 Like the people that were willing to go on these reality shows, especially stuff like Big Brother, where you just live in a house with a bunch of people.
00:02:54.000 Like, how fucking weird.
00:02:56.000 You're just being filmed constantly in this pressure situation, and the producers are fucking.
00:03:00.000 You know, Mike's been talking a lot of shit behind your back.
00:03:02.000 You might want to get ahead of this.
00:03:03.000 Like, what?
00:03:04.000 Yeah, I could never do that.
00:03:04.000 Mike?
00:03:05.000 Yeah.
00:03:05.000 No, well, you're not stupid.
00:03:09.000 Or you're not young, or you're not desperate.
00:03:11.000 We had a lot of people that were just in like credit card debt and shit, and they were like, Look, if I can win this fucking thing, like normal people, they're like, Look, it'd be fun.
00:03:19.000 I'll tell my kids about it.
00:03:20.000 We've been watching this forever, and I can win $50,000 so I can pay off my credit card debt.
00:03:25.000 That's noble, dude.
00:03:26.000 Well, sometimes people have to do what they have to do, you know, but there's also a lot of people that want attention in any way possible.
00:03:34.000 And that's like the people that are, you know, you see so many people online that are doing stuff that have fucking nothing to say, but they're just trying to find something where people pay attention to them.
00:03:45.000 What's Running up to people and slapping them, throwing glasses of water in their face, whatever they have to do.
00:03:50.000 Anything they have to do to get attention.
00:03:52.000 And if you trace that back, it kind of started with reality shows where people started to be able to get attention just being a buffoon.
00:03:59.000 There was a story.
00:04:01.000 I covered a story.
00:04:02.000 So, for those who don't know me, I tell strange, dark, and mysterious stories on the internet.
00:04:07.000 And I covered a story that was like the epitome of this.
00:04:10.000 It's the idea of doing anything for clicks.
00:04:13.000 I don't have the dates, but it was like within the past 10, 15 years, there was this group of, or there was this one Russian influencer.
00:04:20.000 This is, I want to say, circa 2010.
00:04:22.000 And she wanted to do something really special for her birthday, to document her birthday and get as many clicks as possible.
00:04:29.000 And she filled this pool up with dry ice.
00:04:33.000 Oh, Jesus.
00:04:34.000 Water plus dry ice.
00:04:35.000 And she invited all her friends over and they documented themselves going into this pool.
00:04:41.000 And she has, I think, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of followers at the time.
00:04:44.000 And so everyone's like, oh, it's the big birthday celebration.
00:04:47.000 I think it was live.
00:04:48.000 And they go into the tub and the music's playing.
00:04:51.000 And then no one comes out of the tub.
00:04:54.000 And it's just this silence.
00:04:55.000 They all die.
00:04:56.000 They all die from suffocation, I think it was.
00:04:59.000 Not exactly sure how you die from dry ice, but it's, I think it eradicates the oxygen.
00:05:05.000 And so who's died?
00:05:06.000 But it's like, how many people died?
00:05:07.000 I'm going to say it was like, Yeah, three.
00:05:08.000 There you go.
00:05:09.000 Three people.
00:05:10.000 What?
00:05:12.000 First of all, like dry ice, you can't even get on your skin.
00:05:16.000 Yeah, you know, we jumped into a pool of it.
00:05:18.000 I was thinking it just tortured their skin.
00:05:22.000 Three die in Moscow party after dry ice thrown into pool.
00:05:26.000 I wonder how much dry ice takes to kill three people.
00:05:28.000 I think a better question is what was the engagement like on that post?
00:05:33.000 Because in some ways, that's what it's all about.
00:05:36.000 Look at the name Ekaterina Dedenko.
00:05:41.000 A popular Instagram influencer.
00:05:42.000 There we go.
00:05:43.000 Focusing on pharmaceutical products.
00:05:46.000 What?
00:05:47.000 With more than a million followers.
00:05:49.000 Two people died at the scene, a third died in the hospital.
00:05:51.000 Rustage's investigative committee said in a statement announcing the criminal probe into the incident, Boy, you do not want to get arrested and go to jail in Russia.
00:06:00.000 No.
00:06:01.000 They don't fuck around.
00:06:02.000 Generally not.
00:06:03.000 They do not fuck around.
00:06:05.000 Ask Brittany Griner.
00:06:06.000 They don't fuck around.
00:06:08.000 Yeah, she's out.
00:06:08.000 She's out.
00:06:09.000 But she did nine months.
00:06:11.000 Was it nine or ten?
00:06:13.000 I think she was sentenced for nine fucking years.
00:06:16.000 And that was for marijuana possession at the Oval Office?
00:06:18.000 She just had a CBD vape pen.
00:06:21.000 I mean, I guess it was probably marijuana, but it was a vape pen.
00:06:25.000 And they jail.
00:06:26.000 Put her in jail.
00:06:28.000 Like hardcore jail for nine fucking years.
00:06:32.000 Periodically, I'll see like images of Russian courtrooms.
00:06:36.000 And I don't even know the stories, but always it's like the accused is sitting inside of like a jail cell that's.
00:06:42.000 In the middle of the courtroom, like iron bars, and you know, whatever they've done, they're facing the death penalty, they have to be, or they pissed off Putin.
00:06:52.000 Yeah, dude, I don't know, man, but it's a gnarly place over there.
00:06:54.000 Yeah, you better be friends with the right people over there.
00:06:57.000 You can't around now, dude.
00:06:59.000 You can't around.
00:06:59.000 That's why, like, I mean, how many times have like political opponents of Putin gotten poisoned or gotten murdered, or and not just him, but a bunch of other prominent figures that had other people running against them.
00:07:11.000 And it's a shady business over there, dude.
00:07:13.000 Oh, it's the shadiest, it's the shadiest, man.
00:07:17.000 Makes you for some very interesting people, though.
00:07:19.000 Yeah.
00:07:20.000 Russian people are fascinating.
00:07:21.000 I've met a bunch of brilliant Russian people, you know.
00:07:25.000 Yeah.
00:07:25.000 I found that they're very, in my limited exposure.
00:07:28.000 This guy.
00:07:29.000 This guy tries to get all that little slip first.
00:07:29.000 Yeah, here we go.
00:07:29.000 Hold on.
00:07:31.000 Yeah.
00:07:32.000 Oh, wow.
00:07:33.000 Hold on a second.
00:07:33.000 He doesn't give up because he does make it up.
00:07:35.000 Oh, that's right.
00:07:36.000 He goes through the roof.
00:07:38.000 He's smart.
00:07:39.000 I'm amazed that he was able to do that, though.
00:07:41.000 What a fucking psycho.
00:07:42.000 Look at him.
00:07:43.000 He looks like a psycho, though.
00:07:44.000 He looks like a guy that should be dead.
00:07:48.000 Looks like a guy probably spent a lot of time in jail.
00:07:51.000 Yeah.
00:07:51.000 He was climbing through the bucket.
00:07:53.000 They're pulling his pants off.
00:07:55.000 They're going to daze him in his nuts.
00:07:58.000 That's not okay.
00:08:01.000 It's a rough spot.
00:08:03.000 Rough spot on earth.
00:08:04.000 Tough people.
00:08:05.000 How did you get started in this whole creepy storytelling thing on YouTube?
00:08:10.000 Yeah.
00:08:11.000 Well, I originally was in the military.
00:08:14.000 I was a SEAL.
00:08:15.000 I did seven years in the teams.
00:08:17.000 And then when I got out in 2017, I kind of drifted a little bit.
00:08:22.000 You know, I did some work with charity, I did some veteran charity work.
00:08:28.000 And I don't know.
00:08:28.000 I just sort of floundered around for a couple of years.
00:08:31.000 Yeah.
00:08:32.000 And I'm married.
00:08:33.000 I got three kids, you know, so I'm sort of like trying to figure it out.
00:08:36.000 I have this small pension coming in that's enough to sort of subsist on.
00:08:41.000 But then I actually, I remember watching a lot of Gary Vee.
00:08:46.000 And more specifically, I saw Gary Vee was just every post he did, it was like, everybody, no matter how old you are, no matter what you're doing, you should be posting content online.
00:08:55.000 Like everyone should be doing it.
00:08:57.000 And when I was in the military, you're sort of in a bubble.
00:09:00.000 I mean, you certainly have access to the internet and, All the things that everybody else does in the civilian world, but especially in the SEAL teams, from my experience, you're so like tribal.
00:09:12.000 All your time is spent really with your teammates or at the team.
00:09:16.000 It's very isolated and you don't even realize it.
00:09:18.000 And so I was not, I didn't have social media when I got out.
00:09:21.000 I wasn't up to date on modern stuff.
00:09:25.000 And Gary Vee was sort of the first sort of civilian person I was seeing that was like, this is what you do, you know, as a civilian, you post constantly.
00:09:33.000 And I began.
00:09:35.000 In addition to doing some charity work, I was doing just trying my hand at social media, you know, uh, posting content.
00:09:42.000 It's like so bad.
00:09:43.000 It was what was the intent, you know?
00:09:45.000 Honestly, there wasn't a clear intent other than, What the hell?
00:09:48.000 Like, it doesn't cost, I'm already paying for the internet, I already own a phone.
00:09:52.000 Right.
00:09:53.000 Effectively, the worst that'll happen is I will embarrass myself by posting something that nobody cares about, or maybe my friends and family will see and it'll be embarrassing.
00:10:01.000 But my, I've always been someone that's been pretty comfortable with.
00:10:06.000 Sort of embarrassing myself.
00:10:08.000 I mean, if you think about SEAL training, a big part of it is you're raising your hand in a pretty public way, at least amongst your circle of friends and family, saying, I'm going to go see if I'm good enough.
00:10:18.000 And a lot of people aren't.
00:10:19.000 And so I went through that process and was, and I narrowly got through, but I sort of had it in my mind that, what, I really try stuff.
00:10:27.000 And so social media, influenced heavily by Gary Vee, it was like, why not?
00:10:31.000 I'll post content.
00:10:32.000 Maybe someone will be interested.
00:10:34.000 Nothing worked.
00:10:35.000 Nothing worked.
00:10:36.000 I mean, It wasn't even like some was close, it was just nobody was paying attention, and it was like, Okay, I'm not devastated, it is what it is.
00:10:44.000 But then, on a whim, I myself personally love strange, dark, and mysterious content.
00:10:53.000 I used to love going to there's a YouTube channel, I think it's still around now, it's called Dark Five, and all it is is just like crazy, true mysteries around the world, you know, talking about how there's like you know, potentially military bases hidden in Antarctica and there's the UFO sightings here.
00:11:09.000 I thought it was fascinating.
00:11:11.000 And on a whim in 2020, when my social media career is basically non existent, I was at this water park, an indoor water park with my wife and kids, Great Wolf Lodge in Pennsylvania, a great spot.
00:11:24.000 And I was like, you know what I'm going to do?
00:11:26.000 I'm going to try something I haven't tried on my social media attempts so far.
00:11:30.000 I'm going to tell like a crazy mystery, a true mystery that I think is really interesting because I think it's cool.
00:11:36.000 It's the first time I'm not trying to copy trends or like do Gary Vee content.
00:11:41.000 I'm just going to like tell a story I like.
00:11:43.000 And I. Pull out my phone and I tell this 60 second rendition of this mystery called the Diatlov Past Mystery.
00:11:50.000 Are you familiar with this?
00:11:51.000 No.
00:11:52.000 It's a great story.
00:11:52.000 Oh, great.
00:11:54.000 I post the 60 second version of the story, but I'll tell you the story in a minute.
00:11:58.000 I leave my phone in the room because I'm going to the water park, indoor water park.
00:12:01.000 I don't want to get wet.
00:12:02.000 So I leave it there, come back two hours later, millions of views on this video.
00:12:07.000 And I've never gotten views on anything.
00:12:09.000 And it's millions of views.
00:12:10.000 There's like.
00:12:11.000 In just a few hours?
00:12:12.000 In a few hours, like five million views on this video.
00:12:14.000 Was it TikTok?
00:12:14.000 Why?
00:12:15.000 TikTok.
00:12:16.000 This is when TikTok was just to the moon.
00:12:19.000 So there's this, it's an amazing story.
00:12:20.000 You probably have heard of it because it's one of those stories that it's made its rounds on the internet.
00:12:25.000 So, in 1959, there were these nine hikers.
00:12:33.000 Actually, there were 10, these 10 young, like 20 something year old hikers in Russia.
00:12:39.000 And they were like the best mountaineers in Russia at the time.
00:12:43.000 And they were going for their, what's called their level three hiking test, which sounds sort of lame, but it's effectively, at the time in Russia, this is like the top credential for mountaineers.
00:12:54.000 If you have this credential, you are the best mountaineer in the land.
00:12:58.000 And the way the test worked is effectively, you're in a class of your own at this level already.
00:13:03.000 It's sort of like being a PhD student where you sort of create your own material.
00:13:08.000 You have to do that for this test.
00:13:09.000 You map out a route that you'll take that effectively checks off all the boxes of difficulty.
00:13:17.000 You put this map down, somebody approves this is going to be hard enough that if you successfully navigate this course that you've mapped out in X amount of time, if you do that, you pass the test, you're a level three mountaineer.
00:13:28.000 And so these 10 hikers, eventually, actually, only nine left.
00:13:32.000 One had a dental issue, so he spared himself.
00:13:36.000 Nine of these hikers, they step out, I think it was in January of 1959, to do this hike that's been planned out.
00:13:42.000 And they brought cameras along.
00:13:44.000 And they're like this young, they're beautiful.
00:13:47.000 They're all like couples, they're all friends.
00:13:50.000 And it's like.
00:13:50.000 Sounds like an awesome opening to a horror movie.
00:13:52.000 This gets wild.
00:13:53.000 If you've not heard this story, you're in for a treat because the pictures are crazy.
00:13:58.000 They step out, and the Ural Mountains is rugged.
00:14:01.000 It's like these huge, windswept, icy mountains.
00:14:04.000 There's like a couple sections of forest, but it's just as rugged as rugged can be.
00:14:09.000 And so these hikers step off and they start taking pictures.
00:14:12.000 And even though it's 1959, the pictures they're taking could be taken today.
00:14:17.000 It's almost like selfie style.
00:14:19.000 They're smiling.
00:14:20.000 Everyone's in such good spirits.
00:14:21.000 They know they're going to pass this test.
00:14:24.000 This is nothing for them.
00:14:25.000 This is a victory lap.
00:14:27.000 And so off they go into the Ural Mountains.
00:14:29.000 It's going to be like a multi day hike, but they're expected to be out.
00:14:33.000 Or, I guess, finished with their route, I think on February 12th.
00:14:37.000 So it's a several week long hike, February 12th, and they were supposed to send some message to say they were complete with the hike.
00:14:45.000 February 12th comes, and no message is sent.
00:14:48.000 No one gets word that these nine hikers have successfully navigated this treacherous stretch of the mountains.
00:14:54.000 And at first, to be honest, no one was really that concerned because, one, there's nine of them, they are quite literally some of the best mountaineers in the land.
00:15:04.000 If anybody can withstand the elements, it's them.
00:15:06.000 And so there wasn't this immediate call to action.
00:15:09.000 But over the coming days after February 12th, the families of these nine hikers got really concerned.
00:15:15.000 They're like, we haven't heard from them.
00:15:16.000 Where are they?
00:15:17.000 Like, the government needs to get involved.
00:15:19.000 Somebody needs to go looking for them.
00:15:21.000 And so eventually, at the end of February, a search party is launched for these hikers.
00:15:26.000 And at first, it was just a couple of volunteers, it was some students from a university.
00:15:30.000 It was not that serious of a search.
00:15:33.000 But they eventually come across.
00:15:35.000 Their campsite, and pictures are taken of their campsite.
00:15:38.000 So, from a strategic perspective, not that I claim to be a mountaineer, but if you were going to be setting up a place, if you were going to set your tent up in a really rugged environment like the Ural Mountains, the worst place to put your tent is the side of a windswept mountain where there are no trees because you'll get no, it'll be relentless wind.
00:15:58.000 Any weather is going to be worse up there.
00:16:00.000 You're on a slope, avalanche risk.
00:16:02.000 I mean, the worst place you could put your tent is the side of a mountain.
00:16:06.000 And so they're looking for these missing hikers who are the best hikers, and they find their tent, their one canvas tent that's right in the middle of this pass called the Dyatlov Pass, which is why the mystery has been named the Dyatlov Pass.
00:16:19.000 It's just one lone tent, and there's no trees, nothing.
00:16:22.000 It's just, and so they go up to the tent.
00:16:25.000 The hikers are not there, but the tent is collapsed, as you see in the picture there.
00:16:30.000 And they look inside the tent, and there's clothes like cold weather gear.
00:16:36.000 Pots and there's a lot of equipment that you would imagine they would have brought with them out here is still in the tent.
00:16:41.000 The hikers are missing.
00:16:43.000 And they discover through whatever testing they did that there was a cut made in the tent that apparently was made from the inside out.
00:16:51.000 Someone took a knife and I believe it was a knife and cut the tent open from the inside out.
00:16:56.000 And so they have all this equipment and they're thinking, this is we're in the middle of the Ural Mountains.
00:17:01.000 It's like negative 40 degrees Fahrenheit out here.
00:17:04.000 It's the middle of winter.
00:17:05.000 You need this equipment to survive.
00:17:07.000 Where are the hikers?
00:17:08.000 They left all their equipment in their tent.
00:17:10.000 Where are they?
00:17:11.000 And so the search expanded exponentially at that point because now these volunteers have discovered this incredible site.
00:17:19.000 They can't find the hikers.
00:17:20.000 A bigger search party comes out there and they discover footprints that are about 100 feet away from where the tent was found.
00:17:26.000 It's a little bit further down the mountain.
00:17:28.000 And the footsteps, some of them are two boots, you know, matching boots of someone's steps.
00:17:33.000 There's eight or nine prints.
00:17:34.000 They couldn't be sure.
00:17:35.000 Eight or nine sets of prints.
00:17:37.000 Some have only one boot on, like barefoot and a boot.
00:17:40.000 Others are just barefoot.
00:17:41.000 And remember, this is the middle of winter in Russia.
00:17:44.000 But they're looking at these prints.
00:17:46.000 And if you look at the tent, it's been cut from the inside.
00:17:50.000 They've clearly abandoned their tent.
00:17:52.000 Something's happened.
00:17:53.000 But the cadence of the footprints as it picks up where they found it near the tent, going down the mountain away from the campsite, they're walking.
00:18:02.000 There's no sense of urgency.
00:18:03.000 Someone analyzed the footprints and they're walking.
00:18:07.000 So they're walking down the mountain, some without boots on, some with one boot on, leaving most of their equipment behind.
00:18:14.000 And so, the search party follows these prints down to the edge of this ominous looking forest.
00:18:19.000 There's only so many forests out there.
00:18:21.000 This is one of them, this relatively small but fairly dense forest.
00:18:24.000 And the prints sort of stop right there at the edge of the forest.
00:18:28.000 And so, they go into the trees, they're looking around, and they eventually come across this big cedar tree.
00:18:34.000 And at the base of the cedar tree is this little burned out fire, like a puny little fire.
00:18:38.000 And then, crouched around it is one of the hikers who's deceased.
00:18:42.000 And I believe there's a picture.
00:18:44.000 I don't know if you can show it on your channel.
00:18:45.000 Sure.
00:18:45.000 Yeah.
00:18:45.000 So, there's a picture of.
00:18:47.000 One of the hikers who is sort of almost like he was trying to get warmth against this fire.
00:18:53.000 I don't think it's that one.
00:18:54.000 There are some right near the cedar tree.
00:18:55.000 I'm sure you can find them.
00:18:57.000 This episode is brought to you by the farmer's dog.
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00:20:16.000 One is dead, and then another one is sort of nearby as well.
00:20:20.000 So there's two hikers that are both deceased from the initial thought is exposure, hypothermia exposure.
00:20:26.000 But critically, there's a couple really weird things about it.
00:20:28.000 One, I think that's got to be the picture right there.
00:20:31.000 And that does not show the bodies, but the bodies are near.
00:20:35.000 I think that's one right there.
00:20:37.000 To the right of that.
00:20:38.000 That could be one of them.
00:20:40.000 But picture two bodies sort of laying scattered nearby.
00:20:44.000 They look at the tree that was at the base of where the fire was, and there are signs that something was trying to climb the tree.
00:20:51.000 There's broken branches and the like, and there's human tissue.
00:20:54.000 That sounds way more extreme than it's supposed to, but there's human tissue pretty high up this tree that suggests somebody had climbed up the tree.
00:21:02.000 And then they examine the bodies, and they found one of the men had his hand, part of his hand, he had bitten off and was in his.
00:21:10.000 Throat, or it might have just been human tissue as well, but it was clearly in his mouth, like he was eating his own flesh, or it at least arrived in his mouth.
00:21:18.000 So they're dead.
00:21:19.000 And so the search expands within this forest, and they find three more hikers, sort of about 100 or 200 feet away from this tree.
00:21:28.000 They're in similar condition.
00:21:30.000 They're all deceased.
00:21:31.000 They're all sort of ragged.
00:21:33.000 Some of them are only wearing a little bit of clothing.
00:21:35.000 They're all dead, but they can't find the remaining four hikers.
00:21:41.000 They continued to search for the next several days, but the weather was pretty severe.
00:21:45.000 And so ultimately, they decided that at this point, it's a recovery mission.
00:21:48.000 We're not going to find them.
00:21:49.000 They're going to be dead.
00:21:51.000 So they waited until the thaw in May.
00:21:54.000 And once the snow had thawed a bit, they came out there and they found this what looked to be like the.
00:22:00.000 They believed that a snow fort had been made maybe 300 or 400 feet away from that cedar tree, which they wouldn't have seen it during the winter.
00:22:07.000 It was barely, you wouldn't have seen it.
00:22:09.000 But it had melted down enough, and the rest of the bodies were found in the remnants of the snow cave.
00:22:15.000 And the four hikers that were in there just had catastrophic injuries.
00:22:22.000 They're all deceased.
00:22:24.000 The woman, or one of them, had a crush injury.
00:22:27.000 His chest was, they compared the injury to his chest equivalent to being struck by a car at high speed.
00:22:33.000 However, he had no or limited lacerations.
00:22:36.000 Like there was no impact to his body.
00:22:38.000 His chest was sort of just inexplicably caved in.
00:22:41.000 And so he's been crushed.
00:22:43.000 One guy, I think his skull was fractured and a piece of his skull was missing.
00:22:47.000 But the one that stands out is.
00:22:49.000 There was one hiker, a woman, who her lips and her eyes were missing.
00:22:55.000 And some accounts claim that the lips appeared to have been surgically removed.
00:23:00.000 At least there was like very tight lines of how her, it was predation, animal predation, you'd see tearing.
00:23:07.000 This was like relatively straight lines where her lips were removed.
00:23:11.000 And then another hiker, his eyes were also missing.
00:23:14.000 And so they're all dead.
00:23:14.000 And they also noticed that the woman was wearing men's clothing.
00:23:20.000 Some clothing that was clearly not hers.
00:23:22.000 And then one of the men, or a couple of the men, were wearing some of her clothing.
00:23:26.000 Like they had exchanged clothing and they found trace levels, albeit small, but trace levels of radiation on some of the clothing and they're all dead.
00:23:35.000 And so now all the hikers have been found.
00:23:37.000 And by this point, this is in May of 1960, I believe it is at this point.
00:23:42.000 This is a huge story in Russia.
00:23:44.000 This is equivalent to being super viral today.
00:23:47.000 Everybody was talking about it.
00:23:48.000 The families are very outspoken about it.
00:23:50.000 People want answers, they want to know what happened.
00:23:53.000 And so the Russian government launched this investigation into what happened out there in the Dyatlov Pass.
00:23:59.000 And quickly, they shut down this investigation.
00:24:03.000 Like, very quickly, they shut it down.
00:24:04.000 And the only things people heard were there were numerous reports from military personnel and some civilians who apparently were in the area, in the Urals, that claimed to have seen glowing orbs, like fireballs.
00:24:17.000 I think they described them as being balls of fire and light shooting up and down.
00:24:22.000 It's hard to tell if it was in the same area where the hikers were, but there were all these independent reports of strange lights over the Urals Mountains that.
00:24:29.000 Could corroborate or could line up with when those hikers all died.
00:24:34.000 And then, lastly, the Russian government came out and said, Well, we've determined that the nine hikers died from an overwhelming, or I think they called it a compelling force.
00:24:46.000 And then they closed it.
00:24:49.000 I believe they made it completely confidential.
00:24:51.000 The families didn't get access to it, it's completely shut down.
00:24:54.000 And then in 2020, the reason I told it is because it sort of began making rounds because I believe some of the pictures had been redacted.
00:25:02.000 And you could see these pictures.
00:25:03.000 And so I said at the start of my video, at the end of this 60 second clip, you're going to Google two words.
00:25:08.000 And it was Dyatlov Pass.
00:25:10.000 And so I teased the story and said, Google it for yourself.
00:25:12.000 And it's a whole rabbit hole of crazy stuff.
00:25:14.000 That's a crazy story.
00:25:16.000 So compelling force is a very weird way to describe a bunch of people dying.
00:25:21.000 Compelling force?
00:25:22.000 It might have been compelling natural force, but I don't.
00:25:26.000 Well, that makes more sense.
00:25:28.000 You froze to death.
00:25:29.000 Well, they could have come out and said that.
00:25:31.000 Right.
00:25:32.000 They basically said, Yep.
00:25:35.000 Are you sure it's not a translation issue?
00:25:37.000 There are several translations of how it came out, and it effectively amounts to some sort of compelling, overwhelming force.
00:25:45.000 Does Russia have a different way of distinguishing how people die in autopsy reports than we do, maybe?
00:25:52.000 I'm not sure, to be honest.
00:25:54.000 I'm not sure about that.
00:25:54.000 It might be like the way Russian language works and where they describe things.
00:25:59.000 Like they might have categories for deaths in a compelling natural force, might just mean like, It could be freezing to death is in the same category as like dying in the Mojave Desert.
00:26:09.000 I think that that's that's I've always assumed that probably what happened is something rational happened.
00:26:16.000 I mean, when you become hypothermic, you can have it's called paradoxical undressing, where at your final stage of when you're so cold, you actually get hot and you take your clothes off.
00:26:25.000 Um, and I would imagine if you're in the final stages of dying, you might do some funny things.
00:26:32.000 And also, would you cut your lips off though?
00:26:35.000 Would you surgically remove your lips?
00:26:36.000 And where are the lips?
00:26:38.000 But then the question is, is there an image of that?
00:26:41.000 Can we see it?
00:26:43.000 This is one of the things that people talk about all the time when it comes to crop circles, or excuse me, cattle mutilation.
00:26:49.000 I put them all in the same category.
00:26:51.000 Who the fuck knows what that is?
00:26:53.000 But cattle mutilation, one of the weird things that they associate with extraterrestrials or whatever they think it is, is that these cuts are very surgical.
00:27:03.000 And it's not an animal just tearing apart a cow.
00:27:07.000 These cuts look like they're made with a scalpel or perhaps some sort of a laser.
00:27:12.000 And also, these creatures are completely drained of blood.
00:27:15.000 So, I'd like to, I wouldn't, but I've seen the cattle mutilation images, and you're like, wow, that is strange.
00:27:21.000 I'd like to see what their lips look like.
00:27:23.000 I do know that actually, and it has nothing to do with the fact that I posted about it because the Diyatlov Pass gets posted about quite a bit.
00:27:30.000 But I think it was in 2022, Russia actually reexamined the Diyatlov Pass mystery now and sort of said, okay, we're going to look at it again.
00:27:39.000 And they determined that an avalanche, like a slab of ice, broke loose, a huge slab.
00:27:44.000 This could be totally wrong.
00:27:45.000 I know it's an avalanche or slab of ice that they basically said was responsible for all of this, that it led to them somehow becoming exposed.
00:27:55.000 Hypothermia and the like.
00:27:57.000 But it doesn't really answer a lot of the questions in my mind.
00:28:01.000 It certainly could have happened.
00:28:02.000 As I told you, they, for whatever.
00:28:04.000 Also, why did they stop in the middle of the windswept side of the slope?
00:28:08.000 I mean, you're.
00:28:08.000 They probably were trying to make their way across and they couldn't do it.
00:28:11.000 And they said, we have to stop, but just stop right here.
00:28:14.000 I can't go any further.
00:28:15.000 And they all argued and then they decided to put a tent right there.
00:28:19.000 It's also, I mean, you know this better than anybody.
00:28:22.000 When you get tired, you make poor decisions.
00:28:24.000 That's what they're trying to do to you in Buds, right?
00:28:26.000 They're trying to make you quit.
00:28:28.000 They're trying to break you down, right?
00:28:29.000 Yeah.
00:28:30.000 When people get tired, they get very irrational.
00:28:32.000 And they also have very little processing power.
00:28:34.000 They don't think about all the possibilities, what could go wrong, what could go right.
00:28:39.000 And they think they can't possibly keep going.
00:28:42.000 And the problem is, if you have nine of you and one of you is a pussy, you know, you got a real problem.
00:28:48.000 Like, do you let Bob die or do you stay here with Bob when you can keep going?
00:28:54.000 And Bob is just like, we can't do this.
00:28:56.000 Like, Bob, like, that's the horror movie scene, right?
00:28:58.000 There's always this one fucking guy.
00:29:01.000 He's like, fuck this, man.
00:29:03.000 I'm fucking staying right here.
00:29:04.000 Like, Jesus, Bob, we can keep walking, keep walking.
00:29:08.000 That reality.
00:29:09.000 Count 10 steps and then count 10 steps more and then just keep doing that.
00:29:13.000 That, what you're describing, is such a natural human thing, which is when the lowest common denominator in your group is struggling.
00:29:21.000 Even if you're frustrated, a lot of times people have an inclination to lowering what you're doing to help that person.
00:29:29.000 In SEAL training, I mean, what's made clear immediately is.
00:29:34.000 Is to some degree that's noble, to some degree, but a lot of times you're going to get more people killed that way.
00:29:41.000 So, those people that are going to hold you back in training have to be identified and kicked out now.
00:29:47.000 And so, it became clear that if you're the weakest link, you're probably getting left behind in training.
00:29:47.000 Right.
00:29:53.000 No.
00:29:53.000 But then in real life, it's the reverse.
00:29:55.000 Buds is a genius way of filtering out the pussies.
00:29:59.000 It's genius.
00:30:00.000 It's the best way.
00:30:01.000 You have to, there's no other way to determine.
00:30:06.000 Whether or not someone will be able to handle extreme pressure and stress other than putting them through extreme pressure and stress.
00:30:12.000 And there's some people through whatever, for whatever reason at this stage of their life, they can't handle it.
00:30:18.000 And maybe they will be in the future.
00:30:20.000 Maybe this is going to be a good experience for them and they're going to toughen up.
00:30:23.000 And look, Goggins talks about it all the time about when, before he ever got into the SEALs, he was 300 pounds and eating milkshakes.
00:30:29.000 He couldn't run around the block, but he decided to become a different person and he did it.
00:30:29.000 He was fat.
00:30:34.000 You can do that.
00:30:35.000 But at that moment, You're going to quit.
00:30:38.000 And so at that moment, we have to get rid of you.
00:30:38.000 Yeah.
00:30:41.000 And maybe you can become someone in the future that won't quit, but right now, you're quitting.
00:30:46.000 Yeah.
00:30:47.000 I sometimes get asked, not often, but I've been asked, you know, when you were going through selection, did you ever have a moment where you thought or you thought about quitting and you suppressed it?
00:30:57.000 And I only say this because I know this is shared amongst a lot of the people that I went through training with.
00:31:03.000 I didn't.
00:31:04.000 I did not have a moment where I thought, oh boy, I'm on the precipice of quitting.
00:31:08.000 I better.
00:31:09.000 I better hold on.
00:31:11.000 Did I have moments where I was questioning my life decisions and questioning, can I even do this?
00:31:16.000 Definitely.
00:31:17.000 But there's something fundamentally different about trying and failing and choosing to stop.
00:31:23.000 And you learn that that is something that I believe is innate.
00:31:28.000 Do you have the ability to keep going through failure?
00:31:32.000 And they put a lot of test gates into buds to basically force it upon you.
00:31:36.000 Most notably, not even Hell Week.
00:31:39.000 Hell Week is the most well known test of endurance where you're awake for five and a half days, basically.
00:31:45.000 But there's one that's even simpler.
00:31:46.000 That it's so easy if you're willing to do it.
00:31:51.000 Easy as a stretch.
00:31:52.000 It's not that hard, but you really need to be committed to doing it.
00:31:55.000 And it's the 50 meter underwater swim.
00:31:58.000 You do it day two of the first phase of training, and everybody knows you're going to do it.
00:32:02.000 All you have to do is, okay, get in the pool, swim one length, and then swim back without surfacing until you're done.
00:32:10.000 It is probably just beyond what's comfortable for someone who's a decent enough swimmer, but you have plenty of lead time for this.
00:32:16.000 You know this is going to happen.
00:32:17.000 People train for years before they go.
00:32:22.000 When I did it, the first leg, it's stressful.
00:32:25.000 But as soon as you've made the turn and you're on your way back, you realize that if you've committed to doing it, you're like, oh, this is really not bad.
00:32:32.000 It's so quick, it's so short, it's all over.
00:32:34.000 People that would quit on that didn't quit at the end of the 50.
00:32:39.000 They quit on the first leg.
00:32:42.000 You're not physically done yet, but you're mentally done.
00:32:45.000 I mean, I'm generalizing, but you see that type of phenomenon in training quite a bit where it's.
00:32:51.000 Are you prepared to keep going through adversity or are you just going to say it's too much and I don't want to do it anymore?
00:32:56.000 I wonder if they've ever sat down and tried to engineer a program to alter people's psychology.
00:33:05.000 You know, you would think that the more people that you can get that would be able to figure out a way through something very difficult where your mind wants to quit, your body wants to quit, the more people that you could figure out how to train to that position, the better.
00:33:21.000 Or is it like I have friends that are MMA coaches that don't want to work with anybody who needs a mental coach?
00:33:28.000 Interesting.
00:33:29.000 They're like, you need a mental coach, you're in the wrong business.
00:33:31.000 And they say that.
00:33:33.000 Those guys are too unreliable.
00:33:34.000 They'll tell it to you.
00:33:36.000 You need a mental coach.
00:33:37.000 You're too in your own head.
00:33:38.000 You're not going to be able to perform.
00:33:39.000 There's guys that are going to be able to lose, dust themselves off, figure it out, and come back and be stronger.
00:33:44.000 And then there's some guys that every big moment overwhelms them, and they just cave to the pressure.
00:33:52.000 They just can't handle it.
00:33:53.000 And then they go through some sort of a mental coaching session.
00:33:57.000 But the core, their personality, whatever it is that's about them, what makes them them, is just fragile for whatever reason.
00:34:07.000 And the question is I wonder if they've ever tried to engineer a program to strengthen people's psychology, just the same way you can strengthen people by lifting weights or by running or whatever.
00:34:19.000 I wonder if there was a concerted effort.
00:34:22.000 To say, like, well, we have so many people crashing out.
00:34:24.000 What if we had 50% less people crashing out, then we'd have 50% more elite operators?
00:34:31.000 I know that when I went through training, and I have no idea if it's still the case now, but I was in SEAL training in earnest in 2011 and 2012, and there were psychologists on staff that you did not go and frequently see them by any stretch.
00:34:49.000 But I remember there being parts of training which were sort of funny because they punctuated the brutality of training.
00:34:55.000 It would be.
00:34:57.000 We'd be out, you know, doing the obstacle course for an hour and then we're doing a four mile run.
00:35:01.000 Then we're swimming, then we're doing this, we're getting beat up.
00:35:03.000 And then, like, all right, now go in the classroom.
00:35:06.000 You go in the classroom and you're talking to this woman who's a psychologist, and she's teaching you how to, like, it's called arousal control, you know, how to take down your mental state in the middle of high stress moments.
00:35:18.000 And all the instructors are on the side, like, you better listen to this, you know?
00:35:22.000 And it's just funny.
00:35:24.000 So there were attempts made, but coming from having done it, there's such a wide variety of people that are successful in training that it's, I have seen and heard that it's hard to pinpoint what is the appropriate indication you're going to be successful.
00:35:42.000 Like, that's the thing they're trying to identify is what are the pools of people that traditionally do well in SEAL training?
00:35:49.000 Because they're trying to figure out ways to strengthen.
00:35:51.000 But the two things they found there's two places where the most mentally tough people, in terms of success in SEAL training, one is wrestling, basically any level of wrestling.
00:36:02.000 Wrestlers have an incredibly high success rate in buds and water polo.
00:36:07.000 Those are the two that they have determined through their studies are the grittiest, most resilient folks when it comes to SEAL training.
00:36:14.000 Interesting.
00:36:14.000 Yeah.
00:36:15.000 Water polo.
00:36:16.000 So, in water polo, how deep is the water?
00:36:19.000 I think it's more that they tread water the whole fucking time.
00:36:22.000 Yeah, that's what I'm getting at.
00:36:24.000 Like, is the water so deep that they can't touch the ground?
00:36:26.000 No, no, you're treading the entire time.
00:36:28.000 Whoa.
00:36:29.000 When you're playing a game.
00:36:30.000 Dude, there was a guy.
00:36:31.000 That's crazy.
00:36:32.000 There was a guy in my class.
00:36:34.000 So, the way it works is you have your enlisted guys, and there's, you know, I. Upwards of 100 dudes in a class that are enlisted, and then you have, I think, maybe eight to 10 that are officer candidates.
00:36:46.000 It's, yeah, we're all SEAL candidates.
00:36:48.000 That's true.
00:36:49.000 But the difference between an officer candidate and an enlisted swine candidate is enormous.
00:36:55.000 The guys over here, the enlisted guys, are just like salt of the earth, just like, I don't give a fuck.
00:37:00.000 We're going to see what happens.
00:37:02.000 The officer candidates, they have some of the most impressive resumes that you can have as like a 20 something year old kid.
00:37:09.000 You have dudes that are, I was a Rhodes Scholar.
00:37:12.000 I played, I walked onto the Stanford football team.
00:37:15.000 That level of prestige.
00:37:17.000 And also, my family's friends with George Bush.
00:37:20.000 And I'm also like a world class swimmer and I'm like an expert marksman.
00:37:24.000 Those are the dudes that become your officer candidates because there's so few slots on any given year for these spots.
00:37:30.000 They're so vetted that virtually all of them succeed.
00:37:34.000 It's so rare that an officer candidate does not pass.
00:37:37.000 Like an officer who's in Buds.
00:37:39.000 You might as well just call him a SEAL at that point because the vetting is crazy.
00:37:43.000 Not on the enlisted side.
00:37:44.000 We're still figuring that out.
00:37:45.000 But the officer side, they're highly vetted.
00:37:47.000 And one of the guys that was one of my officers in one of the classes I was in was a water polo player from the University of Tennessee.
00:37:56.000 And he's this big, big, strong guy.
00:37:59.000 He's an awesome dude.
00:38:01.000 And there's this part of training, halfway through training, it's a second phase, it's broken into three phases, and it's the water phase.
00:38:08.000 And it's really statistically everybody who gets to the second phase mostly makes it through.
00:38:13.000 But it's because you've already passed through so many test gates in the first phase, like Hell Week and the 50 meter underwater swim, that this is already the pool of people that's just going to push through the misery and pass stuff.
00:38:24.000 So it's misleading.
00:38:25.000 The second phase of training, I would argue, is exponentially more challenging than the first phase.
00:38:31.000 But the only people who do it are through the first phase.
00:38:34.000 And so 90% of people pass the second phase, but it's really hard.
00:38:37.000 And there are two tests in particular within the second phase that are notoriously just brutal.
00:38:43.000 One of them is called pool competency.
00:38:45.000 Which is a 20 minute exam of your ability to fix problems with your scuba tanks underwater, where basically you go to the bottom of the pool with your tanks on, and when your test begins, you're in the section of this huge pool called the combat training tank.
00:39:01.000 There's like the six foot section, then it slopes down to the nine foot section, and then it slopes down to the 15 foot section.
00:39:06.000 And your test takes place in the nine foot section.
00:39:09.000 And you just crawl along the lane marker as if you're doing lap swimming.
00:39:12.000 There's a lane on the bottom of the pool, there's like eight or nine lane markers.
00:39:15.000 And you crawl back and forth only in the nine foot section.
00:39:19.000 And two instructors per student come down and turn your air off, tie knots in your hoses.
00:39:23.000 And as soon as you're being touched, you got to go into the fetal position and wait for like the attack to stop.
00:39:28.000 It takes like 15 seconds, 30 seconds.
00:39:31.000 You're out of air, and this is a 20 minute test.
00:39:33.000 You're building up hypercapnia as you go.
00:39:36.000 And then you got to fix your problems, and the problems get progressively harder to solve.
00:39:39.000 But the procedures they teach you are the same procedures for every problem.
00:39:43.000 If you go to step one and it doesn't work, you go to step two.
00:39:45.000 If that doesn't work, you go to step three until you go all the way through your steps.
00:39:48.000 But it teaches you calm.
00:39:50.000 So even though you're on the last problem you're going to solve at minute 18 and you're about to pass out, you have to show them that you'll do step one, step two, all the way through.
00:39:59.000 So it's about being calm.
00:40:00.000 I was horrible at this test, by the way.
00:40:02.000 I passed by the skin of my teeth.
00:40:05.000 This dude passes the test first try, but that's not where the story comes in.
00:40:08.000 So, this water polo player, he blazes through that test, no problem.
00:40:12.000 The other test is just the tread.
00:40:15.000 That's all it's called the tread.
00:40:16.000 You spend five minutes in the pool with your twin 80 tanks on, which are neutral in the water.
00:40:21.000 They're pretty heavy outside of the water, but they're cumbersome on your back.
00:40:25.000 You got no fins.
00:40:26.000 You got a weight belt on, hands up out of the water.
00:40:28.000 Weight belt.
00:40:29.000 Yeah, it's like five pounds or something.
00:40:31.000 And you tread for five minutes.
00:40:33.000 And that's the whole test hands out of the water.
00:40:34.000 Hands out of the water.
00:40:35.000 So, you only tried with your legs?
00:40:37.000 No fins.
00:40:38.000 Wow.
00:40:40.000 Tanks on.
00:40:41.000 The only way to do it realistically is imagine hopping on a bike, like in the gym, and just sprinting until you have full muscle fatigue.
00:40:52.000 Hold it for like three, four minutes.
00:40:54.000 You don't even need to go that fast, but it's constant.
00:40:57.000 That's the only way to do it.
00:40:59.000 Unless you're an exceptionally talented water polo player who's mastered the art of the egg beater, where they basically have found a way to move their legs.
00:41:08.000 That's like the most efficient way to tread water.
00:41:11.000 And this dude, I kid you not, who blazed through pool comp first try, no problems whatsoever, was like joking around after his test.
00:41:18.000 He gets him for the tread and he could hold himself almost to his belly button, probably like nipple to belly button line, fully out of the water.
00:41:26.000 Just no problem.
00:41:27.000 Just no problem.
00:41:28.000 Like practically smiling because he knows this is my domain.
00:41:31.000 I can do this all day long.
00:41:32.000 It was the most incredible thing I'd ever seen.
00:41:34.000 That's crazy.
00:41:35.000 I would have never thought of that.
00:41:37.000 Yeah.
00:41:37.000 First of all, I didn't know that water polo players had a tread the entire time, which is insanely impressive.
00:41:42.000 Like, how long is a game?
00:41:43.000 Well, I don't know if they can go to the edge and hold on periodically, but if you watch water polo, most of the time they're just treading.
00:41:50.000 I'm no water polo player, but my understanding is that the game is played while treading.
00:41:56.000 Yeah.
00:41:57.000 I never would have imagined, but now that you described it that way, like, that might be the hardest sport on earth.
00:42:03.000 That makes baseball look so easy.
00:42:03.000 Oh, dude.
00:42:06.000 I remember, like, David Wells of the Yankees.
00:42:09.000 He's like a huge fat guy smoking cigarettes in between innings.
00:42:12.000 Dave Ruth.
00:42:13.000 Dave Ruth eating hot dogs, big old belly.
00:42:15.000 That's crazy.
00:42:15.000 Oh, man.
00:42:16.000 Crazy.
00:42:17.000 I remember in boot camps, this is not even before you even get to Buds.
00:42:21.000 There's actually, it's funny, the when you go in, you know, as in, I went in as a civilian.
00:42:28.000 So I signed this contract where basically you say, okay, I'm going to go to boot camp, become a sailor, and then I'll have my shot at going to Buds.
00:42:33.000 It's called the SEAL Challenge Contract.
00:42:36.000 And, you know, the way I looked at it is I'm like, okay, I've prepared for Buds.
00:42:40.000 That's what I, as a civilian, that's what I was training for.
00:42:43.000 I didn't think at all about boot camp.
00:42:46.000 Like, what's two months of Navy boot camp going to be?
00:42:48.000 Because What my head is focused on is buds.
00:42:51.000 That comes after.
00:42:52.000 So, when I shipped out to boot camp, I had put virtually no thought into what those two months were going to be like in Great Lakes, Illinois.
00:43:01.000 I figured it was like, ah, whatever.
00:43:02.000 I'll like march around, like fold some clothes, you know, whatever.
00:43:06.000 And then I'll go do the real stuff out in San Diego.
00:43:08.000 And so I get to Chicago and it was like a reality check because you quickly realize that, first of all, if you're trying to be a SEAL and you're on the SEAL challenge contract, when you get to Great Lakes, you're segregated.
00:43:23.000 Into a separate group.
00:43:24.000 They're called the 800 Division.
00:43:26.000 I don't know if this still exists now, but it did in 2010.
00:43:30.000 And there really aren't any SEALs or SPEC Ops that are at Great Lakes.
00:43:34.000 I mean, there's a few, but for the most part, you're working with ordinary sailors that are putting you through training.
00:43:41.000 But imagine you're an ordinary sailor, and God love them.
00:43:44.000 I've worked with amazing sailors across the Navy.
00:43:47.000 And here come the SEAL recruits in the 800 Division.
00:43:50.000 They're civilians, they're not even sailors yet.
00:43:53.000 There is an enormous amount of resentment.
00:43:56.000 Toward those that show up, like, yeah, I'm going to buds.
00:43:59.000 Like, there's just an attitude of like the instructors, they want you to understand that, like, you don't have a clue what you're getting yourself into.
00:44:06.000 And so, in boot camp, those two months, your instructors are not SEALs, but they just like torture you because they're like, this is nothing compared to what you're going to have in buds.
00:44:16.000 And one of the things we would do is there was all sorts of stupid stuff like push ups and whatever, but there was this treading thing that we had to do where we'd go in the pool at like five in the morning and, like, it's so cold.
00:44:27.000 And they would line us up.
00:44:28.000 So we're all faced.
00:44:29.000 Like, if you were, I'd be right behind you looking at the back of your head.
00:44:32.000 You'd be looking at the next guy's back of his head.
00:44:34.000 And they'd give us bricks.
00:44:36.000 And you're just treading.
00:44:37.000 And you got to pass the brick up and down the line.
00:44:39.000 And periodically, they'd give you two bricks.
00:44:41.000 And so if anybody doesn't hold up their end of the bargain, quickly the bricks get handed off to like one person and no one wants the brick.
00:44:49.000 You don't have fins on or anything.
00:44:50.000 And guys are like sinking into the water, like truly about to pass out and black out.
00:44:55.000 But the level of oversight, not great.
00:44:57.000 Because it's sort of like, you don't know what you're getting into.
00:45:00.000 Tread, hold those bricks.
00:45:01.000 And it's just Matt.
00:45:02.000 And they would leave us in there treading with bricks for so long that you're like, I'm going to drown.
00:45:06.000 I'm literally going to drown if I keep this up.
00:45:08.000 And then suddenly it would be over and you're like on the pool deck, like vomiting.
00:45:12.000 And you're thinking to yourself, holy shit, like, is this, this is not even as bad as Buds?
00:45:16.000 And then you get to Buds and you're like, no.
00:45:19.000 No, that was worse.
00:45:21.000 Well, that's probably good then.
00:45:23.000 Yeah.
00:45:23.000 It was nice.
00:45:24.000 Had those guys even been through Buds?
00:45:24.000 That's funny.
00:45:26.000 No.
00:45:27.000 So they were just making tough stuff for you to do.
00:45:27.000 Okay.
00:45:30.000 Put on all your turtlenecks.
00:45:31.000 We'd like to put on all our stupid, like, neoprene turtlenecks, like, seven of them, because you have all this stupid clothing in your rack, and like, march around the compartment, the room you're in.
00:45:41.000 And we would just like to spend hours, like, marching around the compartment, sweating our ass off in our, like, turtlenecks.
00:45:47.000 It's stuff like that.
00:45:48.000 Or we do bird watching where they would have us just face a wall and be at attention for, like, two, three hours, just staring at paint.
00:45:56.000 But it's just arbitrary.
00:45:57.000 It's like, you don't know what you're getting into.
00:45:59.000 Puds is going to be so much worse.
00:46:00.000 And, like, you don't even know what you're talking about.
00:46:02.000 It's kind of weird people want to do that to people.
00:46:04.000 There was a lot of like, you don't know what you're getting yourself into.
00:46:08.000 I know more than you.
00:46:09.000 I've done real stuff in the Navy.
00:46:10.000 But like, they have this moment where we're still civilians and we haven't gone to training and they know that virtually all of us are going to quit.
00:46:18.000 So, this is a safe group to sort of flex around, you know?
00:46:21.000 Wow.
00:46:22.000 So, it was, I hated boot camp.
00:46:24.000 When I got out of boot camp, in boot camp, I was drinking their coffee and I was convinced it was caffeinated coffee.
00:46:32.000 And I told myself it was.
00:46:32.000 It wasn't.
00:46:34.000 I'm a big coffee drinker.
00:46:35.000 And when I got out of boot camp, I went to, To dinner with my family, and I didn't eat anything.
00:46:40.000 I just drank like nine cups of coffee and got so jacked up on caffeine and just told stories about boot camp.
00:46:47.000 They don't give you caffeinated coffee?
00:46:48.000 Well, it was coffee, but I mean, it was like you pushed a button and this brown shit came out and it was like, it said cafe something on it.
00:46:57.000 I was like, that's coffee.
00:46:58.000 I'm not going to question it because I don't want to psych myself out.
00:47:01.000 And I was drinking this shitty coffee.
00:47:03.000 Yeah, have some coffee.
00:47:05.000 Have some real coffee.
00:47:06.000 Jesus Christ, you're freaking me out.
00:47:08.000 Oh, man.
00:47:09.000 Yeah, that's funny.
00:47:11.000 Yeah, well, I mean, what we were talking about before, that there's no other process to figure out whether someone's going to be able to handle pressure.
00:47:20.000 Than to put them through it and see what happens.
00:47:21.000 If you're passing bricks, maybe that's not the best example of it because it seems like those guys were being a little sadistic.
00:47:28.000 Yeah.
00:47:28.000 And probably, at least you would imagine that what they're doing in Buds is tried and proven.
00:47:34.000 They know what they're doing.
00:47:35.000 These guys, it seems like they were just getting off on the fact they could tell you what to do.
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00:48:52.000 I, uh, so when I, so I got hurt in Afghanistan in 2014.
00:48:56.000 Um, And after I got hurt, I'll tell you in a minute what happened.
00:49:01.000 I got debriefed essentially by the senior commander of the group that I was a part of.
00:49:07.000 And it was just like, hey, tell us what happened, what went wrong, what would you have done differently?
00:49:12.000 And truthfully, and I wasn't kissing anybody's ass, I wasn't trying to be a follow the rules kind of guy.
00:49:19.000 I just said, you know what?
00:49:21.000 The training works.
00:49:23.000 The training is unbelievable.
00:49:24.000 I saw it for myself firsthand.
00:49:26.000 So we were in Afghanistan in 2014.
00:49:29.000 And this was the tail end of my only combat tour.
00:49:32.000 I did it as my first deployment.
00:49:33.000 This is 2013, 2014.
00:49:36.000 And we had been going into this town called Zarganshar, which is this fairly urban Afghan town that was literally on the other side of the one paved road, Route Utah, they called it, that ran through Afghanistan.
00:49:49.000 Got IED'd constantly.
00:49:50.000 We were on one side of the road behind some HESCO barriers.
00:49:54.000 And Zarganshar is like this sprawling, pretty large urban village.
00:50:00.000 Historically, I don't know how long it had been going on for, but there had just been nonstop fighting in Zarganshar between NATO forces and loads of different factions of fighters, the Taliban, Pakistani fighters, you name it.
00:50:14.000 And so when we got in country in 2013, we turned over with SEAL Team 8 and they said, basically, you know, your job here is to try to quell the flow of suicide bombers into Kabul.
00:50:26.000 And there was a couple of other things they told us to focus on.
00:50:28.000 But really, if you want some action, You just go to Zargonchar because they're so battle hardened in there.
00:50:34.000 The people that are still there, if you go in there, they're going to fight you.
00:50:38.000 If you want to find weapon caches, they're going to be in there.
00:50:40.000 And so, over the course of the deployment, this is like five months in, we had gone into Zargonchar a great deal.
00:50:47.000 And truthfully, it wasn't like we walked in and it was crazy every time, but we definitely got engaged.
00:50:52.000 There was definitely more contacts there than anywhere else.
00:50:57.000 But on this one day, this is like five months into the deployment.
00:51:00.000 This is in April.
00:51:02.000 So, it was the fighting season that started.
00:51:04.000 So, the warmer weather had come in.
00:51:06.000 And we sort of put ourselves in a terrible position a little bit by accident.
00:51:11.000 So, the city, it's not really a city, it's a village, but it's It's bigger than a village.
00:51:16.000 It's somewhere between a city and a village for Afghanistan.
00:51:18.000 So it's like mud huts, but like tight together.
00:51:21.000 And it's really like well defined.
00:51:24.000 You know, it's almost like the edge of Zargonchar just becomes vacant desert on the outsides.
00:51:29.000 It's like this really isolated spot.
00:51:31.000 We entered the city with our vehicles and then began infilling into the city.
00:51:37.000 I forget exactly what our purpose was.
00:51:39.000 I think there was like a bomb maker or something we were going after.
00:51:43.000 But the rules of engagement that we were operating under.
00:51:47.000 Effectively said, you can't offensively engage anyone.
00:51:53.000 There's a couple of factors that could allow you to, but for the most part, you need to get shot at first to then shoot back.
00:51:58.000 That's sort of the gist.
00:52:00.000 And the people we would get into skirmishes with knew that a lot of times, and they'd be tactical about how they would go about shooting at us.
00:52:08.000 And so we start making our infill from the edge of the city, and we get into this little narrow area where we knew we'd have to enter into this courtyard.
00:52:20.000 We start hearing chatter over the radios.
00:52:22.000 So we had the ability to listen to just the open source radio that the fighters would use in the village.
00:52:27.000 And we heard them talking to each other.
00:52:29.000 And it was clear they had spotted us.
00:52:31.000 It's broad daylight.
00:52:32.000 This is not a shock.
00:52:34.000 But they were clearly talking to each other and making plans to wait until we, and it was only 20 or 30 of us plus our partner force, wait until we got into that courtyard before you open up on them.
00:52:49.000 And I don't know if this was said explicitly, but the idea was they're not going to do anything.
00:52:53.000 Due to the rules of engagement, we can let them come into the courtyard and then open up on them.
00:52:57.000 And there's a couple two story buildings that overlook the courtyard.
00:53:00.000 So it's pretty gnarly.
00:53:03.000 Our team lead, who was freaking awesome, is freaking awesome.
00:53:07.000 He stopped us and he's like, Hold on a minute.
00:53:10.000 We took cover behind this bridge that was right behind us.
00:53:12.000 And he's like, Wait, let's figure this out.
00:53:14.000 But we realized that now that we know where they are, we know they're in those second story buildings overlooking that courtyard.
00:53:19.000 They're now, they can see us.
00:53:21.000 If we go forward, we can't engage them proactively.
00:53:24.000 We can't like call in an airstrike.
00:53:26.000 We have to walk into a courtyard.
00:53:28.000 That has angles down on us.
00:53:29.000 So it's basically walking into an ambush.
00:53:32.000 That's a bad idea.
00:53:33.000 But if we go the other way, if we retreat, I told you that the edge of Zargonchar, there's no cover.
00:53:39.000 It's just open desert, if you will.
00:53:41.000 And so there wasn't really a good way to exfill back to our vehicles without getting shot in the back.
00:53:47.000 They don't have rules of engagement, they can shoot at us anytime they want.
00:53:49.000 And so we realized because of where they're positioned, we either had to go forward into effectively a known ambush or retreat.
00:53:58.000 And hope they don't get the drop on us and shoot one of us.
00:54:01.000 And it's a pretty high chance someone was going to get shot if we exfilt.
00:54:04.000 And so we sat there, we were thinking about it, and we ultimately made the decision like, hey, we were Navy SEALs, let's just go forward and process the threat.
00:54:14.000 And so into the courtyard we go, it's on body cam.
00:54:17.000 And, you know, it was eerie.
00:54:19.000 I remember walking into this courtyard again, broad daylight, it's quiet.
00:54:22.000 We had seen women and children run out of the village as we approached.
00:54:25.000 So we knew only people here are going to be fighters.
00:54:28.000 And just machine guns opened up on us in this courtyard.
00:54:31.000 And I say this without, I don't mean this in a sort of crass way, but thankfully, the only people who were hit in the opening volley were our dog and I believe two of the Afghan partner force guys that they got shot.
00:54:44.000 Because if you're going to survive this, you need the SEALs.
00:54:46.000 You don't need anybody else.
00:54:47.000 You need the SEALs to get out of this.
00:54:49.000 And so we all took up our positions, sort of, we expected this to happen.
00:54:53.000 And it became like this crazy, disjointed, onesie, twosie breaking off, clearing buildings, sometimes by yourself, just madness.
00:55:03.000 For like the next six hours, it slowed down.
00:55:05.000 It was not constant, but it was like six hours of urban, sketchy, roof to roof, building to building shooting.
00:55:13.000 And we were sort of getting our asses kicked.
00:55:15.000 I mean, we just kept seeing people that would open up on us around like a corner.
00:55:21.000 We'd go after them and they'd be gone.
00:55:22.000 And we knew there were tunnels dug into the ground all over the place for people to escape.
00:55:27.000 And it just seemed like everyone we were shooting at would vanish.
00:55:31.000 And so finally, it's late at night.
00:55:33.000 We've been there for six hours or so, and we've gotten beaten up.
00:55:36.000 No one's been killed on our side.
00:55:38.000 The dog's fine.
00:55:40.000 And we were sort of like, man, I guess we just got to go.
00:55:44.000 We didn't really accomplish anything.
00:55:45.000 We just kind of got beat up today and we'll come back another time.
00:55:49.000 It didn't go well.
00:55:50.000 And as we're getting ready to leave, and remember at this point, our group of 20 some odd SEALs, there's Afghan partner force as well, but the SEALs that were on the ground, we had broken up into different fire teams, little groups of dudes.
00:56:02.000 And I was with a fire team that was close to the exit we were going to be taking.
00:56:06.000 And one of the drones overhead, I think it was being flown by somebody in Las Vegas.
00:56:11.000 They called out that they had seen what appeared to be military aged men, so ma'ams as they're called, sort of in the vicinity of where we would be exfilling out of the city.
00:56:24.000 And they weren't saying, you better go over there and like shoot them because rules of engagement say you can't do that.
00:56:30.000 It was just sort of a hey, be aware.
00:56:32.000 As you exit, they might be setting up on you as you're leaving the city.
00:56:36.000 And so our fire team happened to be closest and we decided we would just go over there.
00:56:41.000 And take a look.
00:56:42.000 Our understanding is now it's nighttime, we're on night vision.
00:56:46.000 We believed, based on what was being passed to us, that we could go down this alleyway that would come to a T intersection.
00:56:53.000 And when we reached the end of this alleyway, there'd be this low wall, like a six foot tall wall, and we could peer over the wall into this field where these ma'ams are.
00:57:03.000 And they didn't even know who they were.
00:57:04.000 It could have been kids, it could have been nothing.
00:57:06.000 But we believed we'd be able to look over the wall and look out somewhere on the other side of this field.
00:57:11.000 We'll see whoever these people are and make an assessment of what to do.
00:57:15.000 So we super sneaky make our way down this alleyway, being as quiet as we can.
00:57:20.000 We get to that low wall, and immediately we start hearing someone talking.
00:57:25.000 It's not our guys.
00:57:27.000 We start hearing Pashtun being spoken on the other side of the wall.
00:57:30.000 And we realize that there's been a mistake, a lost and trans.
00:57:35.000 Something's been miscommunicated to us.
00:57:36.000 We are now closer than you and I are right this second to what actually was military aged men.
00:57:42.000 There was at least two.
00:57:43.000 I've heard as many as five.
00:57:45.000 I actually don't know the exact number, but there were fighters.
00:57:48.000 Hiding on the other side of that wall.
00:57:50.000 Intentions unclear, but they're right there and they haven't heard us yet.
00:57:54.000 And they're nervous.
00:57:55.000 We can tell they're nervous.
00:57:56.000 They're right on the other side of the wall.
00:57:58.000 And we are in a tough, tough spot here because there's seven of us.
00:58:03.000 We're so close to them that if someone even so much as like farts right now, they're going to hear us.
00:58:08.000 And so our team leader, who was incredible, he went on to go to Team Six.
00:58:12.000 He's one of the best dudes I've ever met.
00:58:14.000 He had to make an on the ground decision.
00:58:17.000 We got to engage these guys.
00:58:18.000 We can see they have weapons.
00:58:21.000 This is all nonverbal.
00:58:22.000 We're like making hand signals and stuff on night vision.
00:58:26.000 And so one of our guys, our team leader, gets down on a knee and he tells one of the guys next to me to stand on his leg and start shooting.
00:58:33.000 And so over the wall, he starts shooting.
00:58:35.000 And there were at least two guys over there that already had grenades they had pulled the pins out on.
00:58:40.000 So this is the moment they've had this.
00:58:42.000 They're holding the grenades for this.
00:58:45.000 So as soon as the shooting started, grenades come over the wall.
00:58:48.000 And there's a video of this.
00:58:50.000 The grenade comes over, you can't really tell.
00:58:53.000 But it literally hit my shoulder.
00:58:55.000 One of the grenades hit my shoulder.
00:58:57.000 And then fell to the ground and detonated.
00:58:59.000 But in the second that this happened, we were under a drone that had a targeting strobe down on us, a flashing infrared strobe on us.
00:59:08.000 Imagine if God had a flashlight and he was turning it off and on rapidly.
00:59:13.000 And you can only see the light on night vision.
00:59:15.000 It's this cone of light that you're in.
00:59:16.000 And this super intimate fight is happening.
00:59:19.000 And I'm watching this grenade.
00:59:21.000 Time really slowed down.
00:59:23.000 I see it for a second because the light's on.
00:59:25.000 The light comes off, it disappears.
00:59:26.000 I see it for a second.
00:59:27.000 And I remember feeling it hit my shoulder.
00:59:30.000 I'm not shooting, I'm not doing anything.
00:59:31.000 I'm just next to the wall as little shit's happening.
00:59:34.000 And the thought I had was, like, fuck, it's gonna blow my head off.
00:59:37.000 I know I'm dead.
00:59:38.000 We're all probably gonna die here in a second, but my mom won't be able to see me again.
00:59:42.000 Like, there will be no open casket.
00:59:44.000 That's the first thought that goes through my head.
00:59:45.000 My head's gonna be blown the fuck off.
00:59:48.000 Hits my shoulder.
00:59:49.000 And this is again, in a fraction of a second, the light comes on, goes off, it falls down lower, and it's like halfway down.
00:59:55.000 Now it's like halfway to the ground.
00:59:56.000 And I'm thinking, oh shit, I'm definitely gonna die.
00:59:59.000 But maybe my face will be intact and my mom can see me again.
01:00:03.000 Light goes off, on, off, on.
01:00:05.000 It lands in the ground and I turn slightly and I'm like, oh shit, I might just lose my legs.
01:00:10.000 Like, this is great.
01:00:11.000 I might live.
01:00:12.000 And so all of us are in the lethal range, assuming this is a frag grenade, which I don't think couldn't have been.
01:00:18.000 It had to be an old school pineapple grenade.
01:00:20.000 We're all, all of us are in this horrible lethal zone.
01:00:25.000 And two grenades go off.
01:00:28.000 I tell people it felt like someone took a handful of rocks.
01:00:32.000 And just threw them at my backside.
01:00:33.000 It didn't hurt.
01:00:34.000 It just felt like someone threw something at me.
01:00:36.000 And then I'm just down on the ground.
01:00:38.000 And my memory of what happened versus what actually happened couldn't have been more different.
01:00:45.000 It would take me years before I actually sat down and debriefed this with the guy who ultimately saved my life.
01:00:50.000 But my memory is I go down and I couldn't get my gun.
01:00:55.000 My gun had been the strap, the little strap had been blown off.
01:00:59.000 My helmet had been blown off.
01:01:00.000 So I'm not on night vision.
01:01:01.000 I'm just, there's pretty good illumination that night, but it's dark.
01:01:04.000 And it's just, Fucking chaos.
01:01:07.000 The thing is, the fighters in that town didn't give a fuck about killing each other.
01:01:13.000 If they could kill me, they'd kill their teammates as well.
01:01:16.000 And so RPGs are just being arbitrarily fired from all, not all across the city, but from other locations just in the vicinity of where this is happening because there was a lull before this.
01:01:25.000 So it's just fucking madness.
01:01:27.000 And I couldn't stand up.
01:01:29.000 I can't move.
01:01:30.000 And I got dragged by one of my teammates.
01:01:32.000 So this is my memory.
01:01:33.000 I got dragged from, I'm at the head of the tee there.
01:01:36.000 They brought me down the stem of the tee, if you will, and I just got placed up against a wall.
01:01:41.000 And I'm sitting there, and I have these tourniquets that are on my chest that we rubber band them to our chest specifically so they can be easily broken off and applied to stop the bleeding in your limbs.
01:01:52.000 And I was so weak and fucked up from this blast that I literally couldn't pull the tourniquets off.
01:01:58.000 And there's, I don't even know if anyone's alive basically at this point.
01:02:01.000 I don't even know what's happening down in the contact zone, which is like 20 feet away from me.
01:02:05.000 All I hear is gunfire, it's madness.
01:02:07.000 And At any point, I'm expecting fighters to run down the alleyway and fucking kill me.
01:02:12.000 Like, I'm dead.
01:02:13.000 I'm dead no matter what here.
01:02:15.000 And so I had this true, in my mind, like near death experience where I sat there.
01:02:22.000 It's relatively well illumined, and I suddenly lost my hearing.
01:02:27.000 Like it's gone, completely gone.
01:02:29.000 And there's good illumination, so I can see this small alleyway.
01:02:32.000 I can see this flashes of light as rounds are coming in.
01:02:36.000 And I just, I'm like, I'm in my head.
01:02:37.000 I'm so aware that I'm alive, but I'm dying.
01:02:41.000 And then my vision goes completely blind, like, can't see, I can't hear anything.
01:02:46.000 But I was so lucid in my mind, so aware that I was alive.
01:02:51.000 And I tell people that on a day to day basis, You live and you don't think about it.
01:02:56.000 You don't wake up and actively live.
01:02:58.000 You don't think, today I'm going to breathe.
01:03:00.000 Today my heart's going to beat.
01:03:01.000 You just do it because that's your entire experience being alive.
01:03:05.000 And your body knows how to do that.
01:03:06.000 Your brain knows how to be alive.
01:03:09.000 You also know how to die.
01:03:10.000 You just haven't done it yet.
01:03:11.000 And I had this really distinct feeling of like, oh shit, this is what it feels like when you shut down.
01:03:19.000 It wasn't sad.
01:03:19.000 It didn't hurt.
01:03:20.000 It was just, it couldn't have been more matter of fact.
01:03:23.000 And all I was thinking about, I had two thoughts.
01:03:25.000 I had, um, What will my obituary say?
01:03:29.000 Nothing in terms of substance, but will it say Jonathan Allen was killed in action or John Allen?
01:03:37.000 So I was hung up on that.
01:03:38.000 And I was also thinking about my wife and how she'd be notified at home.
01:03:41.000 And I was thinking, I wish we'd had kids because now I don't have a legacy.
01:03:45.000 And so I had this feeling of like letting go.
01:03:48.000 I don't know, that's so cliche, but it physically felt like I had let go.
01:03:53.000 And I remember feeling the impact of the ground as I sort of killed over.
01:03:57.000 And I thought that was it.
01:03:58.000 Like, I'm about to die.
01:04:00.000 This is the end, you know?
01:04:02.000 But then, out of fucking nowhere, the legend that he is, his name is Kyle.
01:04:08.000 He's a SEAL, fucking comes out of nowhere and he grabbed me and he put tourniquets on my legs.
01:04:14.000 I'm still like in my blacked out zone here, but I slowly regained sight and hearing.
01:04:20.000 And the scene we're in is still terrible.
01:04:22.000 There's still chaos happening everywhere.
01:04:25.000 And Kyle, who's a sniper, he's a medic, he's the calmest dude under pressure, he's like, hey, It's going to be okay, buddy.
01:04:32.000 It's all good.
01:04:33.000 Stop the bleed.
01:04:34.000 Like, just stay here.
01:04:35.000 Like, you know, put your gun up if you can.
01:04:36.000 I'll be right back.
01:04:38.000 Like, literally in hell all around us.
01:04:40.000 Couldn't have been more calm.
01:04:41.000 He just runs down back to the contact zone, comes back up.
01:04:44.000 He brings another guy out whose lung had collapsed.
01:04:46.000 He's patching him up, smiling.
01:04:47.000 Everything's fine.
01:04:48.000 Meanwhile, so I'm starting to see now as I'm regaining consciousness, if you will, I'm seeing my teammates who have also been fucked up from this grenade.
01:04:56.000 But only me and one other guy were so affected by the grenade that we couldn't function.
01:05:01.000 It was me and this guy whose lung had collapsed.
01:05:03.000 He was like, Barely able to breathe.
01:05:05.000 So we're down, but the other like five dudes, it's like, it's your job to get us out of here now because we're fucked.
01:05:11.000 We are pinned down and fucked here.
01:05:13.000 One guy, the team lead, in one ear, he was working with multiple air assets overhead, calling in what's called a danger close airstrike, which is you're effectively calling in an airstrike on yourself.
01:05:24.000 You need special initialing from your higher officer.
01:05:28.000 I think your commanding officer, like one more senior than you, has to approve the drop because, in essence, you could kill yourself doing it.
01:05:35.000 So He was calling in an airstrike that needed to be exact, like fucking exact, on the other side of that wall.
01:05:43.000 And then in the other ear, he's communicating with the rest of our disparate teams, which are broken up across the city, trying to tell them where we are.
01:05:52.000 He's got two comms happening, and he's physically pulling people out of the contact zone with Kyle to get them to cover.
01:05:59.000 And he's engaging the enemy, and we're getting shot at.
01:06:02.000 Holy cow.
01:06:03.000 He's a Team Six, that dude.
01:06:05.000 Everybody.
01:06:06.000 Went into like flow state.
01:06:07.000 I don't even know how to describe it.
01:06:09.000 And I'm fucking worthless.
01:06:11.000 I'm not in flow state.
01:06:11.000 I'm fucking dead state.
01:06:13.000 They hoisted me up and we ran like a mile because there was no way to extract us because of how densely populated it was.
01:06:21.000 The buildings were so tightly together.
01:06:23.000 Could you move your legs?
01:06:24.000 They were like fucking pillars.
01:06:26.000 I was supported on shoulders, hobbling.
01:06:28.000 I was not able to run.
01:06:29.000 No.
01:06:30.000 In the tourniquets, they cut off circulation to your limbs because I was bleeding profusely from my legs.
01:06:35.000 So they were cinched off, which kills the circulation.
01:06:38.000 At a minimum, you got very dead legs.
01:06:40.000 But they ran me to a hot extract.
01:06:43.000 Where there's a fucking helo that came in, coming in, guns blazing.
01:06:46.000 They throw us in the helo.
01:06:47.000 Now, get this me and the other dude with the lung, we get thrown on the helo and we just leave with the medical team.
01:06:53.000 Those fucking dudes, those five dudes, still on the ground, had to fight their way back into the city to go reconnect with the rest of the element, who again, he's calling, the airstrike he called in was with, it was perfect.
01:07:05.000 He got, I think, an award for it.
01:07:07.000 He hit exactly in the right spot.
01:07:08.000 He called in the exact right spot, like under the most duress you could imagine.
01:07:12.000 But like, so my mental image of what happened is under truly.
01:07:17.000 Like, I witnessed life and death.
01:07:19.000 Like, I was in a life and death scenario, and I got to be fully an audience for it.
01:07:25.000 Every motherfucker was fucking perfect at their job.
01:07:29.000 Like, literally rounds flying everywhere.
01:07:32.000 Hey, what's going on?
01:07:33.000 Got your legs all tied off here.
01:07:36.000 Calling this airstrike over.
01:07:36.000 Hey, what's going on?
01:07:38.000 Couldn't be calmer.
01:07:38.000 That was it.
01:07:39.000 Like, and so my debrief point was it fucking works.
01:07:42.000 The training works.
01:07:43.000 Wow.
01:07:45.000 What a fucking story.
01:07:47.000 Holy shit, dude.
01:07:49.000 There's an addendum to it.
01:07:50.000 I want to hear the addendum.
01:07:51.000 Yeah.
01:07:51.000 So after we got medevaced, so I'm in the helicopter.
01:07:56.000 And at this point, I don't know the state of my injury.
01:08:00.000 All I know is a few minutes ago, I thought I died.
01:08:03.000 You know, like I don't really, I'm happy to be here now.
01:08:07.000 But we get in the helicopter and that crew was amazing.
01:08:09.000 I think they were PJs, Air Force PJs, which are like Spec Ops Air Force, I think.
01:08:14.000 They were fucking great.
01:08:15.000 But they were like, hey, do you want, what's the drug?
01:08:18.000 Oh my God.
01:08:18.000 It's the one, the painkiller drug, morphine.
01:08:20.000 Morphine.
01:08:21.000 Morphine.
01:08:21.000 And I said, no.
01:08:22.000 I didn't have any pain, but I was like, I'm worried I might die and I want to be lucid for it.
01:08:26.000 And they're like, okay, no, I think you're going to be okay.
01:08:29.000 But I was like in my head that I might die.
01:08:30.000 I don't know.
01:08:31.000 And so we get medevaced out of Zargonchar and they fly us right to this nearby base, very close by, called Shank.
01:08:38.000 And when we get there, there's obviously doctors and nurses that are there specifically for this.
01:08:45.000 And so even though it was the middle of the night, they had been told, hey, you have two casualties, you know, the guy with the collapsed lung and myself.
01:08:52.000 To be honest, I don't really know exactly what they were told, but I would imagine they were told, get ready for.
01:08:58.000 Some type of surgery for both of them.
01:09:00.000 And so we fly to Fobshank, and I get wheeled in on a stretcher.
01:09:04.000 My clothes have been fucking cut off of me.
01:09:06.000 Like my dick's hanging out.
01:09:07.000 Like I'm in disarray.
01:09:09.000 Like I'm all fucked up.
01:09:10.000 And I really, I don't even know.
01:09:11.000 I think I'm going to be okay because at this point I've made it here and no one's acting like I'm literally about to die.
01:09:17.000 But I don't know.
01:09:18.000 I don't really know how bad it is.
01:09:19.000 And they wheel me into this tent along with the other guy, and it's so bright, like so bright inside of there that you can barely open your eyes.
01:09:26.000 And it's just a sea.
01:09:27.000 Of all these doctors and nurses that are ready to perform whatever needs to happen because they don't know.
01:09:32.000 They don't know what needs to be done.
01:09:35.000 But as soon as I get in there, I see in the back corner of this relatively small medical tent, like a shanty medical tent, is maybe like 15 SEALs that were not on the mission with me.
01:09:46.000 There are other guys in country that are other Navy SEALs.
01:09:49.000 It's the middle of the night and they've put on the equivalent of their best uniforms.
01:09:54.000 These are not dress uniforms, these are like their BDUs.
01:09:57.000 These are not nice, but.
01:09:58.000 In Afghanistan on a deployment.
01:10:01.000 This is the best shit they had.
01:10:03.000 They clearly had been tracking, because you can track missions in real time when you're overseas.
01:10:08.000 They saw the call signs come across that SEALs had been wounded and were being brought here for treatment.
01:10:12.000 I have no sense of what exactly they knew, but clearly, whatever was passed indicated that one of us or both of us could die.
01:10:20.000 And so, these dudes were in the tent in case we died.
01:10:23.000 They're my friends.
01:10:24.000 I know them all personally.
01:10:25.000 And so, I'm being wheeled in, and the gravity of what's happening was like a fucking ton of bricks because now I'm kind of loopy from what's been going on.
01:10:35.000 And I see that the looks on these guys' faces, and they're wearing these uniforms, and they're all standing almost like at attention in the corner.
01:10:42.000 And they're there in case I fucking die.
01:10:45.000 It's like I'm going to my own funeral.
01:10:47.000 And so I'm put on the, they swarm me, not them, the doctors swarm me and they get me ready for debridement, which is just to pull the shrapnel out of my hips and my leg.
01:10:58.000 And the guy was like, all right, I'm going to give you, I think it was ketamine.
01:11:00.000 He's like, you're not going to, this is it.
01:11:02.000 Like, good luck to you.
01:11:03.000 And he like gave me ketamine and I passed out or whatever they gave me, I completely passed out.
01:11:08.000 And then it's like I have no memory and I fucking wake up in Germany.
01:11:12.000 I'm in fucking Germany and I'm just, oh, Yeah, you're fine.
01:11:17.000 Yeah, your legs are all fucked up, but you're going to live keeping your limbs.
01:11:20.000 And then I think it was seven days after that, I'm back home in Virginia, hobbling down the Home Depot fucking aisle.
01:11:29.000 Just no transition.
01:11:31.000 I was just killing people overseas.
01:11:34.000 Holy shit.
01:11:36.000 Yeah, fucking nuts.
01:11:37.000 What was the extent of the injuries?
01:11:39.000 Honestly, I was so fortunate.
01:11:41.000 It was a big hole in my ass, like a three or four inch chunk.
01:11:47.000 The big issue with it is.
01:11:49.000 It was so deep into my ass that they had to keep opening it so that it would not heal in reverse, you know, because it can pocket the.
01:11:58.000 And then just inside of my leg, I mean, basically I was spared.
01:12:02.000 Like it was just a massive flesh wound from underneath my knee all the way up to my back.
01:12:08.000 And then I also, this is the part that was the worst, to be honest.
01:12:12.000 Legs fine.
01:12:13.000 I have a little bit of residual soreness.
01:12:15.000 At this point, there's a little bit of shrapnel in my leg, but they're like pieces of sand.
01:12:18.000 They only, on a hot day, I might notice it.
01:12:21.000 But I, from the grenade blast, I was told by my orthopedic surgeon that the blast likely briefly dislocated both of my shoulders.
01:12:31.000 I truthfully don't know if this actually happened, but he said as much.
01:12:34.000 And I tore both of my labrums, a slap tear.
01:12:37.000 It's a relatively common injury.
01:12:39.000 And I had what's called a biceps tendinesis surgery done on my right.
01:12:44.000 Basically, it was so painful, I couldn't really use it.
01:12:47.000 But it's this surgery where they remove a portion of your bicep and they restaple it.
01:12:51.000 But it's sort of like a band aid, it doesn't really fix the problem.
01:12:54.000 And the shelf life of a biceps tendinesis is about 10 years before you might see some degrading.
01:12:59.000 And I'm now at the point where my shoulder fucking sucks.
01:13:03.000 And I, like in the gym, I have to do all these, I have to avoid pressing, I have to avoid overhead stuff.
01:13:08.000 And it's just where the bicep tendon is?
01:13:11.000 No, it's the, so what happens is the labrum tear itself never got fixed.
01:13:16.000 They just removed some of the tension on one side of the tear, but still over time, it continues to tear down the labrum.
01:13:23.000 So effectively, my labrum just over time, Has continued to tear and I'm getting some additional pain.
01:13:29.000 I just had an MRI done and they're like, you know, you had the bicep tendinesis done.
01:13:34.000 There's not a whole lot more you can do.
01:13:36.000 You can do stuff to fix it, but a lot of it is just going to do more damage than good.
01:13:40.000 And so I'm probably staring down, not chronic fucking pain or whatever, but something like that.
01:13:45.000 Have you done any stem cells?
01:13:47.000 No?
01:13:47.000 No.
01:13:48.000 How long are you in town for?
01:13:48.000 Okay.
01:13:48.000 No.
01:13:50.000 Tonight.
01:13:51.000 That's it?
01:13:52.000 No, I can come back.
01:13:54.000 I'm going to bring you into ways too well.
01:13:56.000 See what they could do for you.
01:13:57.000 It's a fucking huge pain.
01:13:57.000 Whatever I can do.
01:13:58.000 Yeah, while you're here, we should try to get you in.
01:14:02.000 Yeah.
01:14:02.000 Maybe I can get you in right after we're done.
01:14:04.000 You could just drive right over there because it's not far from here.
01:14:08.000 Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's a huge issue.
01:14:10.000 Guarantee you it can help you.
01:14:11.000 If you fucked around with peptides at all?
01:14:13.000 No, I see them all over the place, but I would just go home.
01:14:15.000 You should.
01:14:17.000 There's a lot of things that they can do that can radically help you.
01:14:20.000 One of the things they can do, it'll definitely decrease a lot of the inflammation and help heal.
01:14:26.000 And, you know, there's some evidence.
01:14:27.000 How old are you?
01:14:28.000 37.
01:14:28.000 Yeah, you're still young, man.
01:14:30.000 There's a lot of evidence that labrum tears can be healed with stem cells and without having to go through surgery, depending on the extent of the tear.
01:14:38.000 Yeah.
01:14:40.000 I'm open to it.
01:14:41.000 Dude, I'm a big believer.
01:14:42.000 It's fixed me.
01:14:43.000 I've had a lot of problems where I was like, I need surgery.
01:14:46.000 I had an orthopedic surgeon tell me, for sure, you need shoulder surgery.
01:14:50.000 I never got it done.
01:14:51.000 He's like, you could rehab it.
01:14:53.000 This was more than 10 years ago.
01:14:55.000 He's like, you could rehab it, but you're going to need surgery.
01:14:58.000 It's 100% now.
01:15:00.000 Oh, your shoulder's good now?
01:15:01.000 100%.
01:15:02.000 Oh, damn, dude.
01:15:03.000 I do all my kettlebell work with 70 pound kettlebells.
01:15:06.000 I don't have any problems.
01:15:07.000 Windmills, cleans, presses, renegade rows, gorilla cleans, no problems.
01:15:12.000 How much are you cleaning?
01:15:13.000 50s.
01:15:14.000 You do gorilla cleans?
01:15:15.000 I do it for reps.
01:15:16.000 Do you do barbell clean?
01:15:18.000 No.
01:15:18.000 No, I don't lift anything heavy.
01:15:20.000 When I do gorilla cleans, I either do 50s or 70s.
01:15:23.000 My whole kettlebell workout is either 50s or 70s.
01:15:26.000 And sometimes I work out with 35s just for the warm up.
01:15:31.000 Like I'll do like warm up stuff.
01:15:32.000 Like I'll do like rotation exercises with 35s.
01:15:36.000 Things where I'm like big halos where I'm just really opening up my back and getting.
01:15:41.000 When did you get into doing kettlebell stuff?
01:15:42.000 I've seen you post like the demon bell or the gorilla bell?
01:15:45.000 The gorilla bell.
01:15:46.000 Yeah, those are the 70s.
01:15:47.000 Those are the shit.
01:15:48.000 Those are, I really got into farmer's carries.
01:15:53.000 That's what I'm using.
01:15:54.000 The gorillas are like my best friends lately.
01:15:57.000 I just do these, I have this big long driveway with a hill, and I do these gorilla carries.
01:16:01.000 It's like a 200 yard driveway.
01:16:03.000 And I do these gorilla carries where you take, well, you know, with those farmer's carries with those gorilla kettlebells.
01:16:10.000 The 70s?
01:16:10.000 Yeah, and I take them up the hill and down the hill.
01:16:13.000 Oh, shit, dude.
01:16:14.000 My grip has gotten so much better, and on top of it, it's like my legs have gotten better, and it feels like my whole body is like.
01:16:21.000 More connected, if that makes any sense.
01:16:24.000 Because when you're walking, you know that guy, Tom Havilland?
01:16:27.000 Fuck yeah.
01:16:27.000 You know who he is?
01:16:28.000 Fuck yeah.
01:16:28.000 Everybody knows who that guy is.
01:16:29.000 Dude's a beast.
01:16:31.000 One of the things that I got from him is he's talked about the importance of picking up heavy things and walking with them.
01:16:37.000 He's like, if you really want to get strong, he's like, strength is not just lifting heavy stuff, like stationary, like carry things.
01:16:45.000 And so he does a lot of weird, like.
01:16:47.000 His Zercher's like fucking 500 pounds.
01:16:49.000 Insane.
01:16:50.000 But he does a lot of weird, like.
01:16:52.000 Off weight stuff where he has more weight on one side than the other and switches them.
01:16:55.000 He has a chain behind him and he's dragging the chain with his right shoulder while he's doing farmer's carries with two hands.
01:17:01.000 He does a lot of crazy stuff like that.
01:17:02.000 And obviously, the guy's a fucking freakishly strong person.
01:17:06.000 So I'm like, okay, well, let me see if there's anything to this.
01:17:08.000 So a few months back, I really got into farmer's carries.
01:17:12.000 And I first just would do it.
01:17:14.000 This is him.
01:17:15.000 Fucking freak.
01:17:17.000 The trademark shirt he's got on.
01:17:18.000 He always has that shirt on.
01:17:18.000 Yeah.
01:17:19.000 And you always see his back and he's like six, eight.
01:17:22.000 Almost 400 pounds.
01:17:24.000 He's a fucking giant human being.
01:17:26.000 I love his page.
01:17:28.000 Yeah, he's a real freak.
01:17:29.000 But this thing that he really believes in is carrying things and walking around with them.
01:17:36.000 And now I really get it.
01:17:38.000 I really get it.
01:17:39.000 Because I've been doing it now for at least three, maybe almost four months, and it's completely transformed my legs.
01:17:48.000 My legs are way thicker, they're stronger, my back feels better.
01:17:52.000 My connection between like my entire core and my back is better.
01:17:58.000 Like everything feels stronger.
01:17:59.000 I'm stronger in every other workout that I do.
01:18:02.000 I feel way stronger when I do like cleans and presses and do windmills and everything else.
01:18:07.000 Because when you're carrying stuff like that, it's like your whole body, your core has to stay tight, your back has to stay tight, everything's dealing.
01:18:16.000 And then when you're up at the top of the hill, you're like, motherfucker, and your forearms are literally on fire and you try to hold on to these things.
01:18:24.000 And, you know, I got a chalk ball in my pocket and I reach in there and powder my hands back up.
01:18:29.000 And as soon as I get my hands back going, I do it again.
01:18:32.000 And that.
01:18:33.000 Has changed everything.
01:18:35.000 That's changed everything.
01:18:36.000 But one of the things that I've noticed is I very rarely get injured as opposed to my friends who do like traditional weightlifting stuff.
01:18:45.000 Like powerlifting or just like benching heavy, squatting heavy, deadlift heavy.
01:18:51.000 Those dudes are all my friends who do that are always getting hurt.
01:18:53.000 They're always getting hurt.
01:18:54.000 I'm guilty of that to some degree.
01:18:56.000 Everybody is.
01:18:57.000 But you think that's the only way to get strong.
01:18:59.000 And I don't think that's correct.
01:19:02.000 I don't think it's correct.
01:19:03.000 I think the most important thing is volume with reasonably heavy things where you're not hurting yourself.
01:19:11.000 Like 70 pounds is, you know, I could probably do 20 reps of cleans and presses, but I only do 10, and then I rest for like five.
01:19:19.000 I do the Pavel Totsalin method.
01:19:21.000 What's that?
01:19:22.000 Pavel Totsalin is the guy who really brought kettlebells over to America.
01:19:25.000 And he's a famous kettlebell coach for Strong First, which is his company.
01:19:25.000 Okay.
01:19:30.000 And he's this philosophy that strength is a skill.
01:19:35.000 And you shouldn't practice skills when you're exhausted.
01:19:38.000 And this whole idea of working to failure, I mean, obviously, if you want to be a bodybuilder or even a professional powerlifter, that's a different thing.
01:19:45.000 But if you want to get strong, the most important thing is the amount of work that you do, not exhausting the muscle with one set.
01:19:55.000 And so, what he has you do is if you can do 20 reps, do 10, and then wait five minutes and do another 10.
01:20:00.000 You got the same volume of work, but you're never exhausted while you're doing it.
01:20:04.000 Your form is always perfect.
01:20:06.000 And you're still getting the same amount of work.
01:20:08.000 So, my workouts, like, I have to allocate two hours if I'm doing a kettlebell workout.
01:20:13.000 Fuck, dude.
01:20:14.000 Yeah.
01:20:14.000 I know, but it works.
01:20:16.000 Dude, that's what it is.
01:20:17.000 And again, I'm fucking never injured.
01:20:17.000 It works.
01:20:19.000 But if I'm injured, it's like a little tendonitis here or something bothering me on my lower back a little, but it's never significant.
01:20:27.000 My trainer, John Finkst, we've been working together a couple years now in Jersey.
01:20:30.000 He's the man.
01:20:31.000 He's a big believer in that.
01:20:33.000 You were talking about, I could do 20, but I do 10 instead.
01:20:36.000 He's like all about not form.
01:20:38.000 Till you die, because there are times where it's like time to throw some English in, get some volume in.
01:20:42.000 Right.
01:20:43.000 But he keeps me from ego lifting and keeps me from doing stuff that it's like over the top.
01:20:48.000 Yeah, ego lifting's a problem.
01:20:49.000 Especially if I can't help it.
01:20:51.000 The one time I hurt my back really bad, I was deadlifting like 450.
01:20:55.000 Like just traditional grip?
01:20:57.000 No, the trap bar.
01:20:58.000 Trap bar.
01:20:59.000 Trap bar.
01:20:59.000 Yeah.
01:21:00.000 The trap bar.
01:21:01.000 What is it?
01:21:01.000 Hex bar?
01:21:02.000 What do you call that thing?
01:21:02.000 Yeah, trap bar.
01:21:03.000 So I love those things.
01:21:04.000 It's fucking ridiculous.
01:21:05.000 But I was like, let's get big.
01:21:08.000 And then I felt.
01:21:09.000 Think, you know that, and luckily it was muscle, not like spinal, not a disc issue.
01:21:16.000 It was lower back, left lower back.
01:21:18.000 It fucked with me for like a six month period.
01:21:21.000 I bet.
01:21:22.000 Oh, so, and I was like, that I'm not doing that anymore.
01:21:25.000 And from that moment on, I got really into just doing kettlebells, and I'm stronger than I've ever been.
01:21:31.000 I don't think you need to lift really, depending upon what you're trying to do.
01:21:35.000 You know, and if you're trying to become a power lifter, sure, you need to lift heavy.
01:21:38.000 But if you just want to be strong and functional, I don't think you need to lift heavy.
01:21:42.000 I don't believe it.
01:21:43.000 No, dude, right now I'm on a pretty big cut.
01:21:46.000 I do a summer cut each.
01:21:47.000 Well, this is my second summer I've done that.
01:21:49.000 Just look good on the beach?
01:21:50.000 Dude, shamelessly.
01:21:52.000 There's nothing else to it.
01:21:55.000 But what I found in my own life is that I do really well when I have not a goal, like a lofty goal, even, but just some fucking thing that you got to suffer to achieve it.
01:22:05.000 I do well with goals like that.
01:22:07.000 Yeah.
01:22:07.000 Goals are important.
01:22:08.000 And I, and I, right now I'm on my, like, I count calories.
01:22:08.000 Yeah, dude.
01:22:13.000 I'm into my macros like you wouldn't believe.
01:22:16.000 But what I was doing before this, I was doing none of that.
01:22:19.000 And I was fucking obsessed with hang cleans.
01:22:23.000 Barbell hang cleans.
01:22:25.000 Dude, I'm so fucking.
01:22:27.000 I've gotten up to 225.
01:22:29.000 Very proud of that.
01:22:30.000 But it's like the one exercise, no matter.
01:22:32.000 We do so many exercises.
01:22:33.000 That doesn't fuck with your shoulder?
01:22:36.000 Actually, no, it doesn't.
01:22:37.000 It's pressing.
01:22:38.000 It's this motion.
01:22:39.000 Interesting.
01:22:39.000 It's the press.
01:22:40.000 Dude, if I press like a fucking 50 pound dumbbell.
01:22:43.000 Wow.
01:22:44.000 But I can do it clean.
01:22:44.000 Alpha 2.
01:22:46.000 That's part of the reason I discovered it, it didn't fuck with my shoulder.
01:22:50.000 But I have been on a quest to like find the right way to train for.
01:22:54.000 Cleans because one of the issues with doing cleans with a barbell, and maybe I'll do kettlebells, is I have a scar right here that I broke my collarbone when I was seven, and my collarbone juts out because it healed slightly in the wrong direction.
01:23:06.000 And so, every fucking time I'm in a block of doing cleans, I always have this just like recurrent infected wound on my fucking collarbone.
01:23:14.000 And then, in the comments of every video, they're like, dude, what's wrong with that?
01:23:17.000 You got staph, dude.
01:23:19.000 And so, but anyways, the kettlebell shaved down.
01:23:22.000 Yeah, fucking.
01:23:24.000 But it sounds like you do cleans and shit with, with.
01:23:26.000 With kettlebells.
01:23:27.000 Yeah, that's probably something I need to consider.
01:23:29.000 Yeah.
01:23:30.000 And it's not easy to do.
01:23:31.000 You know, like 70 pounds is when you're doing like 10 reps, and I'm doing like three sets of 10 reps.
01:23:38.000 It's fucking brutal.
01:23:39.000 But it's also the clean and press from the ground up, right?
01:23:43.000 It's all one motion, and this continuum of motion, you know, over the course of 10 repetitions, it's a good solid minute plus of work.
01:23:50.000 So you're working really hard for a minute.
01:23:52.000 So you're getting a little bit of a cardio benefit from it, but if I'm real consistent with it, the You know, I'm 59 now.
01:23:59.000 I just turned 59.
01:24:00.000 So it's just about staying strong.
01:24:02.000 That's all I'm concerned with.
01:24:04.000 Not losing any of my strength, not losing any of my mobility or flexibility or anything like that.
01:24:10.000 I'm constantly stretching, constantly just, I believe in maintaining.
01:24:14.000 And I think most people don't do that.
01:24:17.000 That's why we have a very distorted perception of what's possible.
01:24:20.000 I think we think that people deteriorate with age so radically that it's just a fact, it is what it is.
01:24:27.000 It's a fact, it's going to happen to you.
01:24:29.000 I don't think that's necessarily true.
01:24:31.000 I think that most people just don't have the willpower to keep maintaining correctly, and they're not supplementing their hormones and taking peptides and also optimizing their nutrition.
01:24:43.000 I think if you do all of those things, you're pretty.
01:24:46.000 I'm personally shocked at what I can still do.
01:24:49.000 When I was a kid.
01:24:50.000 You're fucking jacked, dude.
01:24:51.000 Yeah, thank you.
01:24:52.000 When I was a kid and I thought of a 59 year old, oh my God, that guy's dead.
01:24:56.000 That's a dead man.
01:24:57.000 He's fucking.
01:24:58.000 He's literally dead.
01:24:59.000 Barely open a jar of pickles, barely fucking make it down a flight of stairs.
01:25:03.000 And I have fucking zero problems.
01:25:05.000 I have one fucked up knee from my martial arts days where I had my meniscus removed in a big chunk of it, and it still fucks with me.
01:25:13.000 But it doesn't fuck with me in terms of function.
01:25:15.000 It only fucks with me in terms of, like, I'm worried it's going to become arthritic over time because there's nothing between the cartilage.
01:25:23.000 The cartilage is banging against each other.
01:25:25.000 Yeah.
01:25:25.000 And I broke it skiing once, right where the cartilage meets the bone.
01:25:30.000 But I think that with the improvements and all these biological therapies like stem cells and peptides, I can maintain it, and that's what I'm doing.
01:25:40.000 So it keeps me out of jujitsu because that's the one thing that really, really rips on your joints, especially my knee.
01:25:46.000 Every time I've done it, it's like, fucker.
01:25:48.000 It just gets, I don't want to do anything.
01:25:51.000 Like my friend Matt, he had a knee replacement and he's younger than me.
01:25:55.000 And I'm like, Yeah, but it's jujitsu.
01:25:57.000 It's just like you're constantly in weird positions and pushing, and someone's fucking trying to heel hook you and you're defending.
01:26:03.000 It's like everything is getting yanked around and then it's sore, but you still go back the next day because you want to train because you're addicted.
01:26:10.000 Yeah, dude.
01:26:10.000 Yeah.
01:26:11.000 I found that my, when I was in the teams, I was in good shape, but sort of by default.
01:26:18.000 And then I got out and I sort of hovered around like I'm still relatively young.
01:26:22.000 It's fine.
01:26:23.000 And then.
01:26:24.000 This whole Mr. Ball on YouTube thing happened.
01:26:26.000 And I, in a way, adopted the same mindset that made me successful in getting through training, which is like this obsessive, got to make more videos.
01:26:35.000 You know, I've had my viral moment, like growing at all costs.
01:26:39.000 But all of my health went out the window.
01:26:42.000 Dude, I would, I would, I would, it'd take me about, I don't know, like 26 hours ish to do, I'm going to make a video, hitting post on YouTube.
01:26:52.000 And then, even though all I wanted to do was sleep, My immediate reaction at like three in the morning would be just slam like four, five, six drinks and then go right to bed.
01:27:01.000 Like, I don't even feel it.
01:27:02.000 I just would drink, go right to bed.
01:27:05.000 Drink just to go to sleep?
01:27:07.000 I didn't even, it was almost like, here's your reward, suck down these fucking drinks.
01:27:11.000 Oh, I get it.
01:27:11.000 And then, but I got so grossly out of shape.
01:27:15.000 Dude, I was like 200 pounds of just fat.
01:27:18.000 And I had this huge ponytail that I grew that I thought looked really good.
01:27:24.000 If you can pull it up, dude, I look so fat and gross.
01:27:27.000 But then it finally occurred to me that, like, wow, you're entering like true dad bod territory and there's just no excuse.
01:27:34.000 And so sometime in like 23, 24, I was like, all right, I got to be like an adult again and train.
01:27:40.000 And dude, it's revolutionary.
01:27:42.000 Whoa, dude, that's crazy.
01:27:45.000 There's a good shot of my disgusting.
01:27:48.000 Let's see.
01:27:49.000 Mr. Ball and look at Mr. Ball and fat.
01:27:52.000 I think that'll probably do it.
01:27:53.000 That's not to be rude or anything.
01:27:59.000 That's a decent one.
01:28:00.000 That one's recent.
01:28:01.000 Which one?
01:28:01.000 And that one's sort of reason.
01:28:02.000 The second one in there, that's not even that bad.
01:28:04.000 Well, the first picture you pulled up, you get it.
01:28:06.000 Oh, you see there in that image.
01:28:08.000 You can see a little ragged going on there.
01:28:10.000 Yeah.
01:28:11.000 But yeah, just.
01:28:12.000 Well, you got to do what you got to do when something starts happening and you realize, like, oh my God, it's like starting a fire in the woods.
01:28:18.000 Oh, yeah.
01:28:20.000 You got to blow on it.
01:28:20.000 You got to put some fucking little twigs on it.
01:28:23.000 You got to get that fucker going.
01:28:24.000 Like, once.
01:28:25.000 And then you've had.
01:28:26.000 Congratulations, because you've had amazing success.
01:28:28.000 Like, what do you have, like 11 million YouTube subscribers?
01:28:31.000 That's incredible, man.
01:28:31.000 Yeah, 11 million.
01:28:32.000 That's really cool.
01:28:35.000 I can only imagine what you've been through, but the thing that I now, this started in 2020 and it's 2026, I have had some incredible highs.
01:28:48.000 The early days of after the viral moment, and I'm like posting stuff that I like to upload a video, and literally the next day, it's like, you've made $20,000 from yesterday to now.
01:29:01.000 And like, I've never in my life made any real money.
01:29:04.000 Ever.
01:29:05.000 It's almost overnight and it grew and grew.
01:29:09.000 And then it's like I signed a deal with Amazon like 10 months after starting a podcast.
01:29:16.000 I actually, I remember when you got your first deal with Spotify.
01:29:19.000 I remember that was like, I didn't even know it was possible for a podcast or anything to sign like the equivalent of a professional sports level contract.
01:29:29.000 And then it's like less than a year after the start of the Mr. Ball and podcast, I'm partnering up with Amazon.
01:29:36.000 It was a $62 million deal.
01:29:38.000 And I say that because, dude, my life got so much better and so much fucking worse at the same time.
01:29:46.000 What was the worst?
01:29:48.000 Oh, God.
01:29:49.000 So there's like the little stuff, you know.
01:29:51.000 Actually, I just had a lawsuit close.
01:29:55.000 They pled guilty to theft and a bunch.
01:29:59.000 So I started a house renovation project when I was living in a house in Pennsylvania when this thing kicked off.
01:30:05.000 And I think they picked up that I was making quite a bit of money.
01:30:08.000 I was adjusting how much I wanted done to my house.
01:30:10.000 Before long, I'm like adding fucking crazy shit to my house.
01:30:13.000 They ended up gutting the house to the studs because they're going to remodel it, but they didn't do any work.
01:30:19.000 And now they kind of had me.
01:30:20.000 My house is wrecked.
01:30:21.000 I'm living in a rental.
01:30:22.000 They're stringing me along.
01:30:23.000 And so they stole hundreds of thousands of dollars and never did any work.
01:30:26.000 And so I sued them.
01:30:28.000 That's a little thing.
01:30:30.000 And then over the course of the next several years, dude, I've had people take advantage of me in just the most personal, deep cutting ways.
01:30:39.000 Ways that, if you were to write a movie, here's the scene of somebody who suddenly comes into money and the pitfalls of that, of people coming out of the woodwork to take from them.
01:30:53.000 The things that happened to me with some family and with some close friends and with business partners is just like, are you fucking kidding me?
01:31:01.000 Like, this was all just an angle?
01:31:04.000 Like, you had an angle on me the whole time?
01:31:05.000 Like, this was a fucking con?
01:31:07.000 Well, people think about people that come into money like that the same way they think about a large corporation if they like slip on the floor, like at Target, like, ooh, I'm going to get paid.
01:31:16.000 They don't think, I'm all right.
01:31:18.000 It's fine.
01:31:18.000 It's my fault.
01:31:19.000 I slipped.
01:31:20.000 No, they think, oh, this is an opportunity.
01:31:22.000 Big time.
01:31:23.000 And they look at a guy like you who's.
01:31:25.000 You know, through your own hard work and stumbling upon this idea and following through with it, made a bunch of money.
01:31:32.000 They're like, I can get some of that money.
01:31:34.000 They don't even think of you as a person anymore.
01:31:36.000 They think of you as a target.
01:31:38.000 I got to keep your circle tight, dude.
01:31:40.000 That's the thing.
01:31:41.000 I got Antonio out there.
01:31:42.000 He's like my right hand man.
01:31:44.000 He's a former homicide detective.
01:31:46.000 Like, he actually came to me to be my house manager.
01:31:50.000 And one of the first things he said to me is, he's like, I don't give a fuck about your content, dude.
01:31:53.000 I think it's stupid.
01:31:54.000 And I was like, You're the guy for me.
01:31:58.000 But he's been awesome because he just like keeps everybody around me sort of like vetted.
01:32:03.000 But yeah, dude, it's uh, that's important, man, because people will sneak through and sometimes you don't see them the way other people see them.
01:32:10.000 Other people see them as like this guy's got an angle, he's a scumbag, be careful.
01:32:14.000 And you, you know, you let people into your circle and then they're like, when they're around you, they're putting on an audition, they're pretending to be someone they're not, they're pretending to be someone that you're going to want to hang out with.
01:32:25.000 And what they're using you is they're just thinking of you as a springboard or as a way to get money.
01:32:30.000 I would imagine for you.
01:32:31.000 Just given, I mean, dude, you are podcasting.
01:32:34.000 Like, if there is literally people are like, hey, you want to be the next president?
01:32:39.000 You better go on Joe's show.
01:32:41.000 Like, I can only imagine the amount of auditioning that happens around you and your circle to get where I'm sitting right now.
01:32:49.000 And I got to be honest, I don't know how you'd be able to sift through people that are trying to meet Joe and interact with you and people who are trying to get in with Joe so Joe will interview them.
01:33:01.000 Well, the good news is I don't really.
01:33:04.000 Interact with anybody.
01:33:06.000 That's the right approach.
01:33:07.000 So, the way I even get like suggestions is one, I see something that I'm interested in, and I have a guy, and I either call him, text him, or email him and say, Hey, let's try to get this guy on.
01:33:21.000 This guy's got a great book, or she's got a really interesting documentary, or whatever it is.
01:33:26.000 And then there's I get these people that submit to want to be on the show.
01:33:31.000 So, I get a list of those that, you know, there's a guy that goes through them that makes they're legit.
01:33:36.000 And then by the time they get to me, It's filtered out to what is actually going to be interesting.
01:33:40.000 So, there's not a lot of, you know, people meeting me that are, and the people that do meet me, usually I never want to have them on.
01:33:48.000 Like, if somebody just like comes up to me and says, I have to be on your podcast, I'm like, nope, you definitely don't.
01:33:52.000 I already know you don't.
01:33:54.000 You definitely don't have to be on.
01:33:55.000 So, this is a crazy conversation.
01:33:57.000 No one has to do anything, you know, and it's people reveal themselves, you know, they just do.
01:34:04.000 They, you know, over time, it takes a little bit, you know, it's not instantaneous, but over time, people reveal themselves.
01:34:11.000 And it's just, The key is, you know, just being open.
01:34:15.000 And there's also people who surprise you.
01:34:18.000 You meet a lot of really interesting people.
01:34:19.000 You know, you run into people that you didn't expect would be fascinating, and they are.
01:34:24.000 You know, there's a lot of that too.
01:34:27.000 It's just you got to be present, just not buy into any of it.
01:34:32.000 That's the real key.
01:34:33.000 No matter how big it gets, just keep doing the thing that you do.
01:34:37.000 So all I do is talk to interesting people.
01:34:40.000 That's it.
01:34:41.000 That's the right way to approach it.
01:34:42.000 It's not that complicated.
01:34:43.000 And as long as I continue to do it the same way, I Feel like people will enjoy it because I think they enjoy it because I enjoy it.
01:34:51.000 Just like the way when someone's doing something that they really love to do, I enjoy watching.
01:34:55.000 If someone's doing like metal sculpture, you know, like, and the guy's really into it, he's welding and hammering, I'm like, I am into that.
01:35:02.000 I'm like, I'm into people doing things.
01:35:04.000 I like when people are really enjoying what they're doing and are really curious andor really like competent at something.
01:35:13.000 You know, they're excellent at something.
01:35:14.000 I enjoy watching that, I enjoy listening to it.
01:35:17.000 And I always enjoy talking to interesting people.
01:35:20.000 So, as long as I just keep enjoying talking to interesting people, I think people will keep enjoying watching it.
01:35:26.000 And it's a nice exchange.
01:35:28.000 Works.
01:35:29.000 It's real simple, but I keep it that way.
01:35:31.000 I don't ever think, like, oh, this guy's famous.
01:35:33.000 He'll have a bunch of followers.
01:35:35.000 This will be a good episode because I'll get a lot of views.
01:35:37.000 I don't think like that.
01:35:39.000 I only think, you know, because like a lot of the people that are on my show, no one's ever heard of them.
01:35:44.000 They're just an interesting person that I found on YouTube or an interesting person that I found, you know.
01:35:51.000 In a documentary or whatever it is.
01:35:55.000 I think it's the point you make about how you.
01:35:58.000 Well, I think for me, anyways, the one thing I've come back to over the past several years of doing this is truthfully, even though there are times where, you know, creating content is obviously a job in the sense that we have a recording schedule and we have things that we have to do, as you obviously do too, amongst whatever else you're doing.
01:36:18.000 The one thing that I fucking love doing is.
01:36:21.000 Telling stories.
01:36:22.000 I mean, I really feel like that's the place where I'm.
01:36:24.000 You're a really good storyteller.
01:36:26.000 You have me on the edge of my seat with your Afghanistan story.
01:36:30.000 Fuck, man.
01:36:31.000 You're really good at it.
01:36:31.000 That was incredible.
01:36:32.000 Thank you.
01:36:33.000 And the other one, too, the Russian one, too.
01:36:35.000 You know, a great story resonates with people, especially a creepy one, which is why I think you've picked the perfect angle.
01:36:43.000 Because a great creepy story, like you hear a great creepy story, like everybody's like, whoa.
01:36:48.000 And then what happened?
01:36:49.000 Have you heard of the Headless Valley?
01:36:53.000 In your comings and goings on the show, the Nahanni Valley?
01:36:53.000 No.
01:36:56.000 No.
01:36:57.000 I got a good story for you.
01:36:58.000 You want to hear it?
01:36:59.000 Okay.
01:36:59.000 Okay.
01:37:00.000 So, in Canada, there's this section in the Northwest called the Northwest Territories.
01:37:06.000 Are you familiar with this?
01:37:07.000 Yes.
01:37:07.000 Okay.
01:37:08.000 So, for those that are not, the Northwest Territories is roughly four times the size of Germany.
01:37:13.000 But Germany has something like 87 million people who live there.
01:37:17.000 And in this space in Canada, this rugged space, there's like 45,000 people that live there.
01:37:23.000 So it's four times the size of Germany and basically not populated.
01:37:26.000 It is as remote as it gets.
01:37:28.000 Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.
01:37:28.000 Population of Dripping Springs.
01:37:30.000 Not even.
01:37:31.000 Not even.
01:37:32.000 Dripping Springs is far.
01:37:33.000 Oh, dude.
01:37:33.000 Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.
01:37:34.000 And so within the Northwest Territory, there's this even more remote stretch that's called the Nahanni Valley.
01:37:44.000 And the Nahanni Valley today is a protected park, it's a Canadian protected park.
01:37:50.000 But even still, even though it's a park you can go visit, it's nearly impossible to get to.
01:37:57.000 To get there by boat, you have to traverse these rapids.
01:38:00.000 I think it's a very treacherous ride to get there by boat.
01:38:02.000 There's no established roads into the Nahanni Valley.
01:38:06.000 You can hike there.
01:38:07.000 It's brutal to hike there.
01:38:10.000 You can fly there, but it's only through chartered float planes.
01:38:12.000 So it's a difficult place to get to.
01:38:14.000 But the Nahani Valley, in particular, when the story takes place, which is like the early 1900s, because of how isolated it was, it's like one of the parts of Earth that's like untouched by humans.
01:38:27.000 And so the only people that would be in this huge sprawling valley, it was like an oasis of nature, they would see things that are just like so gorgeous, like untouched nature.
01:38:37.000 But in the early 1900s, There was this push from gold prospectors to go out into the Nahanni Valley because they figured, because it's so untouched by humanity, there's bound to be gold to be found in the Nahanni Valley.
01:38:51.000 Now, there were some indigenous tribes, like the Naha tribe, they were out there.
01:38:55.000 There's some lore surrounding how they might have abandoned their settlement around the time the story takes place.
01:39:03.000 But there were indigenous tribes that lived out there.
01:39:05.000 But for the most part, it's like this sort of vacant stretch in this already isolated part of the world.
01:39:11.000 And so in 19, I think it's 1905, these three brothers, these three prospectors, the McLeod brothers, Charlie, Willie, and Frank, who are seasoned gold prospectors, they decide they are going to head off into the Nahanni Valley and go try to strike it rich.
01:39:26.000 And it's even harder to get into the valley back then as it is today.
01:39:30.000 It required for them, they actually had to build a boat.
01:39:33.000 They had to bring pieces of a boat and they would take it up a rapid or down the rapid and they'd have to disassemble the boat, carry it up like these rock faces to get like, because there's waterfalls they had to get past.
01:39:45.000 And then bring the boat further and further into this valley.
01:39:48.000 And it's like this it's just crazy how much work goes into getting out there.
01:39:51.000 But these three brothers, they find their way into the valley and they get to this stretch of this river called the Flat River, which is anything but raging rapids.
01:40:01.000 But there was this little embankment against this huge forest and like mountains off in the distance.
01:40:07.000 And they made their camp there and there's no one around.
01:40:10.000 I mean, this is pristine wilderness.
01:40:12.000 And they start sifting, sluicing for gold.
01:40:16.000 And it's just fucking gold everywhere.
01:40:18.000 It's like the sand is gold.
01:40:20.000 There's gold everywhere.
01:40:21.000 They find so much gold and they can't believe it.
01:40:24.000 They've struck it completely rich here.
01:40:27.000 And so, after a whole day, I think they did two, three days even of just getting all this gold, they pack all their shit back up in their boat that they've assembled and they begin making their way back out again, which should be easier because now I think a lot of it you're going with the current.
01:40:41.000 I don't even know how they get up there with the rapids going one way.
01:40:43.000 But either way, they begin making their way out and their boat capsizes and they lose all their gold.
01:40:49.000 The boat breaks up.
01:40:50.000 They narrowly are able to salvage the pieces and they come ashore and they build their boat again.
01:40:55.000 And they're like, oh my gosh, we've lost so many supplies.
01:40:58.000 Like, this is horrible.
01:40:59.000 You know, the best we can do here is leave and come back with more supplies because we know there's gold here.
01:41:06.000 Like, this is devastating, but no one's going to be here.
01:41:07.000 We can come back, we can get more gold.
01:41:10.000 So they leave.
01:41:11.000 And once they get back to town, Charlie, one of the brothers, decides, you know what, it's not worth it.
01:41:17.000 That was really sketchy.
01:41:18.000 I don't want to die out on the flat river.
01:41:20.000 You know, Frank and Willie, they're like, oh, we got to go, we got to go out there.
01:41:24.000 And so, fast forward a year, Charlie's still saying, I will not go back out there.
01:41:29.000 But Frank and Willie, they decide to go and they recruit this other guy.
01:41:33.000 I think his name is Robert.
01:41:34.000 Robert Weir.
01:41:36.000 And so the three of them go back into the valley to strike it rich.
01:41:40.000 And, you know, Charlie is aware that they're going out there.
01:41:43.000 He's staying back, but he knows they're going out.
01:41:45.000 He knows where they're going because he went there with them.
01:41:47.000 And he expects they're going to be gone for, I think it was going to be a whole year.
01:41:51.000 And you can imagine how much effort goes into getting out there.
01:41:53.000 They were going to live out there, I think, for the summer and just get as much gold as they could and come out.
01:41:57.000 But some amount of time passed, let's call it a year, when Charlie starts to become suspicious because they haven't come out of the valley yet.
01:42:04.000 And this is 1905.
01:42:05.000 There's no way to talk to them.
01:42:07.000 And so another whole year passes.
01:42:09.000 We're two years deep into this.
01:42:11.000 And still, these guys have not returned from the Nahanni Valley.
01:42:14.000 And so at this point, Charlie is thinking, there's an issue here.
01:42:17.000 Something's happened to my brothers.
01:42:19.000 I got to go find them.
01:42:20.000 And so he puts together a group of people to go see what happened to his brothers.
01:42:25.000 And so he makes his way.
01:42:27.000 He starts getting into the valley and he reaches this stretch of this is just to give you a mental image of where he's going.
01:42:34.000 To get to that segment of the beach where they had been two years prior when Charlie was with them, because that's where he's assuming they're going to be, they had to pass through these canyons.
01:42:43.000 There's four canyons that go, I think it's Canyon Four, Canyon Two, Three, One.
01:42:48.000 They're all just called Canyon One, Two, Three, Four, but they're staggering.
01:42:52.000 I mean, just visually, these are just ominous places.
01:42:56.000 There are these stretches, like Canyon Two is this 10 mile stretch of very deep water.
01:43:01.000 I don't know how deep, I want to say it's at least 100 feet deep, where the water goes all the way up.
01:43:07.000 To the cliff face.
01:43:08.000 It's just sheer cliff face on either side.
01:43:10.000 So you're, it's like the scar in the earth where it's hundreds of feet tall cliffs on either side that are sheer.
01:43:17.000 And it's just, you know, call it 100 feet at least of water down.
01:43:19.000 There's nowhere to stop.
01:43:21.000 Once you're in this canyon, you must go to the end of the canyon.
01:43:24.000 There's nowhere to go.
01:43:25.000 Oh, fuck.
01:43:26.000 And the Naha tribe, who, the tribe that had lived there for a while, they had always talked about, they called them the Wahila.
01:43:34.000 They said there were these creatures, these white, tall creatures that would roam the forest in the Nahani Valley.
01:43:40.000 And they would make these screeching sounds and they would attack people.
01:43:44.000 It's just folklore, right?
01:43:46.000 But they said that in these canyons, there were all these caves, these pockets of caves high up on these canyons that you can't really get to, that they believed the Wahila would live inside of.
01:44:00.000 So imagine you're going down this misty 10 mile stretch in Second Canyon and you're looking up on either side and there literally are caves that no human has ever stepped foot in.
01:44:11.000 You can't even get to these fucking caves.
01:44:14.000 And because of the way the wind cuts through the canyon, it makes this echoey, like screeching noise that today you can still hear as you go through these canyons.
01:44:21.000 And so they're going through Second Canyon, this stretch here.
01:44:25.000 And the stretch of Flat River where he had been the year prior or two years prior with his brothers was at the end of Second Canyon, where the first little beachhead exists.
01:44:34.000 And so he, Charlie, and his search party exit this creepy Second Canyon and they see there's a campsite set up on the beach.
01:44:42.000 And it's not really a beach, it's like four feet of sand and then it's a little bit of hinterland and then it's just forest.
01:44:48.000 But he sees there's a tent.
01:44:49.000 And so they beach the boat and they're looking around and they find there's two bodies.
01:44:54.000 It's a man, two men.
01:44:56.000 They're badly decomposed, but they're missing their heads.
01:44:58.000 There's two headless men that are badly decomposed, one of which is reaching for his rifle and he's half in the tent, half out of the tent.
01:45:06.000 And he's reaching for his rifle, which is propped up against a tree.
01:45:09.000 And the other is just lying behind the tent and he's missing his head.
01:45:12.000 The heads were never found.
01:45:14.000 And they find identification and it turns out those are his two brothers.
01:45:18.000 And they find etched into the tree that the gun was propped on, it just was written etched into the wood.
01:45:25.000 We have found a fine prospect, which could mean any number of things.
01:45:29.000 Maybe it means they found gold, whoever.
01:45:31.000 But that was written on the tree.
01:45:32.000 And then a little ways down from their camp, going along the same direction they'd come in, they found a skeleton, which they could never identify as being anyone, but they believe it belonged to Robert Weir.
01:45:44.000 So they're all dead.
01:45:45.000 And the authorities, you know, when this was reported, they weren't really shocked.
01:45:50.000 They're like, ah, it's the Nahanni Valley.
01:45:52.000 It's a dangerous place.
01:45:53.000 They obviously died of starvation and animal predation caused their heads to be ripped off.
01:46:00.000 You know, tough luck.
01:46:01.000 Charlie didn't believe that.
01:46:02.000 He always believed that something had happened to his brothers, but he had no way to prove it.
01:46:06.000 So that's 1905.
01:46:08.000 Fast forward to 1913, people sort of know about this story that this is when they dubbed it the Headless Valley because these men were found without their heads.
01:46:16.000 Little did they know that story would carry quite a bit of weight because 10 years or a little bit less than 10 years later, Martin Jorgensen, who's another gold prospector, heads out into the Nahanni Valley.
01:46:28.000 He's heard the stories, he's heard about the McLeod brothers.
01:46:30.000 He knows that there's You know, lore of the Wahila and that there's something weird happening in this valley and it's dangerous.
01:46:37.000 But he goes out there anyways and he tells his business partners, who are these rich guys who didn't want to actually go get the gold.
01:46:41.000 They just funded his expedition.
01:46:43.000 He's like, I'm going to go out there and I'll make us a bunch of money.
01:46:47.000 I'll find a bunch of gold.
01:46:47.000 I'll stay out there for the whole summer and then we'll rendezvous and we'll split the earnings or whatever.
01:46:52.000 So out he goes and he builds himself a cabin not far from where the McLeod brothers had stayed and then the second expedition as well.
01:47:00.000 And he, Is out there for the summer, but then he misses the rendezvous point.
01:47:04.000 He was supposed to come out of the valley and meet his partners at the end of the summer.
01:47:07.000 He doesn't.
01:47:09.000 Eventually, a search party is brought out to find what happened to him, and they find his cabin had burned to the ground.
01:47:15.000 They find Martin Jorgensen is within the remains of this burned down cabin, missing his head.
01:47:21.000 Jesus.
01:47:23.000 And they, I don't know how they did this in 1913, but apparently the fire began on the roof.
01:47:29.000 And so they don't understand how he could have not.
01:47:32.000 Realized there was a problem and exited his cabin.
01:47:35.000 I mean, that's simplifying it, but it's an odd thing that fire starts here and you still burn to the ground and also where's your head?
01:47:43.000 So that's Martin Jorgensen.
01:47:44.000 So now people, they aren't really connecting the McLeod brothers and Martin Jorgensen.
01:47:49.000 It was called the Headless Valley by the time Martin Jorgensen gets into the valley.
01:47:54.000 He's now found headless.
01:47:55.000 And now it's like there's a little more rumor mill going on.
01:47:58.000 Over the coming several, actually, next 10 years, there were several other expeditions to include this guy Riley O'Brien.
01:48:06.000 Who goes out there, prospector?
01:48:07.000 He goes out to check his traps, doesn't come back.
01:48:09.000 His partner who's with him, he walks over and finds him, and he's just sitting inexplicably by a campfire that's not on.
01:48:17.000 It's not even, it was cold.
01:48:18.000 It was cold enough to freeze to death out there, but it was not blindingly cold.
01:48:22.000 And he's sitting in front of this fire pit.
01:48:24.000 It's only been like an hour or two since he stepped away, and he's holding a match or a cigarette in his hand, and he's just like, he's frozen.
01:48:31.000 He's frozen to death.
01:48:33.000 And there's no sign of what happened to him.
01:48:35.000 He's just sitting by the fire, and he's dead.
01:48:37.000 He has his head, but he's frozen to death.
01:48:40.000 The guy would, his partner who fled the valley would later say he looked flash frozen.
01:48:44.000 So that happens.
01:48:45.000 There were at least two other prospectors who also had their cabins burned down.
01:48:51.000 One of them was nearly decapitated when he was found, but he still had his head, but signs of something being done to his spine was present.
01:48:58.000 And then there were another two guys who, their cabins burned down, but their bodies were intact.
01:49:02.000 So there's all these people that die in similarly bizarre ways.
01:49:05.000 And then in, I think it was 1926, the first like really weird thing happened.
01:49:10.000 This is all weird, but a really weird thing happens.
01:49:13.000 It's going to get weirder?
01:49:13.000 It gets weirder.
01:49:15.000 There was this hunting party that went out to the Nahanni Valley.
01:49:18.000 And by this point, it's become almost like because there's this lore surrounding how dangerous this place is, because people are fearful of the Nahanni Valley, it's now bringing a new crowd of people into the valley.
01:49:31.000 It's bringing like hunting parties that kind of are like, I don't know, go fucking see what's out in this valley.
01:49:36.000 And so they were going through Second Canyon and they were heading to Flat River and they were going to these places where all these kind of famous deaths have occurred to go hunting.
01:49:45.000 Just sort of to be in this valley.
01:49:46.000 And so this hunting party is out there, and it's a big group.
01:49:50.000 I think there was at least a dozen people out there, and they're camping out on the banks of the Flat River, not really in the same spot where the McLeod brothers had been, but not too far away.
01:49:59.000 And they're out drinking late, having a good old time.
01:50:02.000 They all go to bed, and the next morning, May Lafferty is her name.
01:50:07.000 May Lafferty, she's missing.
01:50:09.000 She's one of the, I think she was the only woman on this expedition.
01:50:11.000 She's gone.
01:50:13.000 And they look for her.
01:50:14.000 There's no sign of what happened to her.
01:50:16.000 She's just gone.
01:50:17.000 And so they did have some sort of a search occur over the next several days, but they ultimately said, you know, we don't know what happened to her.
01:50:24.000 And they left.
01:50:25.000 They left the valley.
01:50:26.000 And so they tell authorities authorities, I think they went out to look for her.
01:50:29.000 They could never find her, no sign of what happened to her.
01:50:31.000 And so around the time that they're looking for May Lafferty, there was this guy who is named Charlie, different from Charlie McLeod, just a sort of loner guy who, just by happenstance, had been camping in the Nahanni Valley at the same time as that hunting party.
01:50:46.000 He was by himself, sort of just this rugged outdoorsman.
01:50:49.000 Who, it's not even clear why he was out there, but he was just out there minding his own business.
01:50:54.000 He was aware of the hunting party and he said that he watched them have their party that night and he had stayed up late but eventually gone to sleep.
01:51:01.000 And he ultimately reports this to the police because there's all this talk of where's May Lafferty?
01:51:06.000 And this guy, Charlie, realizes he may have seen her.
01:51:08.000 So he goes to the police and he tells them, hey, I was out there.
01:51:11.000 They don't know I was out there.
01:51:12.000 I was out there at the same time.
01:51:14.000 And I went to bed late at night after they were already asleep and I woke up to the sound of rocks, like little rocks falling into the water.
01:51:23.000 And he's relatively close to the water, but he's not so close that he would hear the sound of the current.
01:51:27.000 He's far enough that a stone throw into the water, you'd hear the sploosh sound.
01:51:31.000 And so he wakes up and he crawls out of his tent and it's pretty well illuminated.
01:51:36.000 And he's in the trees, you know, and he can see the water, the flat river.
01:51:40.000 And he can't tell what the rocks are coming from.
01:51:43.000 It just sounds like rocks falling from a distance into the water.
01:51:46.000 And so he just is curious and he gets up and he walks down to the water line and he starts hearing them more and more.
01:51:52.000 And he looks up and there's a part of the The coastline, if you will, the beach line that sort of was up on a rise to his left.
01:51:59.000 Like there was a hill that was right next to him.
01:52:02.000 That's dramatic, just a slight rise.
01:52:04.000 And there was a little bit of a cliff that maybe like six feet, eight feet of a cliff that overlooked the river right there.
01:52:10.000 And he sees there's this woman who's crawling on all fours and she's scrambling up this little rise of the beach.
01:52:18.000 And it's her kicking of the dirt that's like sprinkling rocks into the water.
01:52:23.000 And he's looking at her and she gets to the top and she stops.
01:52:26.000 And she turns around and looks at him, and he described her as looking possessed.
01:52:30.000 He was like, there was something wrong with her.
01:52:32.000 She just stared at me, and he was so frightened.
01:52:35.000 He didn't, he just froze and then hid.
01:52:37.000 And he watched this woman scamper off into the, wherever she went, over the rise away from the camp.
01:52:43.000 So she's gone, and he didn't know what to make of it.
01:52:45.000 He's like, that's so weird.
01:52:47.000 He hears about this missing woman.
01:52:49.000 He tells police, and he sees a picture of her.
01:52:51.000 And he's like, I'm nearly positive that was her.
01:52:53.000 And so she's never found.
01:52:55.000 And so Mae Lafferty's gone.
01:52:58.000 Fast forward another 20 years.
01:52:59.000 So there's no idea.
01:53:02.000 In those 20 years, more prospectors are found dead as well.
01:53:06.000 One of the last hunting parties went out into the Nahanni Valley.
01:53:11.000 Actually, the prospector goes out and he goes missing.
01:53:15.000 His name is John Patterson.
01:53:16.000 This is like in the 1939, 1940 range.
01:53:19.000 And a hunting party goes out to look for him and they can't find him.
01:53:23.000 And on the last night they were there, one of the men who was part of this search party for John Patterson, they're near the Flat River, he described an indigenous man walked out of the tree line, just sort of inexplicably walks over to him and he comes up to the group who are sort of on the beach line there.
01:53:41.000 And he just says to this guy, he's like, hey, And they're startled to see him to begin with.
01:53:46.000 Like, where the fuck did you come from?
01:53:48.000 And he's like, be careful.
01:53:50.000 The Wahila are out tonight.
01:53:53.000 And the guy just like wanders.
01:53:54.000 This is according to legend, this is what was said to him.
01:53:56.000 And the guy wanders back off into the trees.
01:53:58.000 But the leader of that expedition, they were planning to stay, I want to say, two additional days to keep looking for John Patterson.
01:54:04.000 But that night, following that comment made by that guy, the indigenous guy, all night, they reported these ungodly screams and screeches coming from that canyon, Second Canyon, where those caves up in the cliffs were.
01:54:17.000 All around the forest, like unearthly sounds were being made that scared them so badly that the next day they said, We're not looking for John Patterson anymore.
01:54:26.000 And they bailed.
01:54:27.000 And so people stopped going into the Nahanni Valley.
01:54:30.000 And today you can still go there.
01:54:32.000 It's still very hard to get there.
01:54:33.000 But no one has a good explanation for why so many fucking people from 1903 or 4 until at least the 1940s kept going into that valley and kept turning up dead, many of which without their heads.
01:54:45.000 So this indigenous guy that lived up there, where was he from?
01:54:49.000 Like, was he living up there?
01:54:51.000 Was he a part of a tribe?
01:54:53.000 Was he passing through?
01:54:55.000 So, that part of the story, admittedly, someone said that an indigenous guy said that to him.
01:55:00.000 There's not much in the way of, like, okay, was there a tribe there?
01:55:04.000 You know, it was one of those loose pieces of information that sort of surrounds the story.
01:55:11.000 The reality is, there's so much legend surrounding the Nahani Valley, in part because the Naha tribe that had lived there, there was this story I mentioned at the beginning that they apparently. Abandoned the valley after something happened, and people have always attributed it to this legend of the Wahila that somehow these creatures must have forced them to leave the valley.
01:55:33.000 And so, combine that with all of the actual deaths that occurred by the 1940s when John Patterson went missing, and when that guy said, who was part of that search party, that the indigenous guy warned him of the Wahila, this was a big enough story that like Time Magazine did something in the 1940s about what the fuck is happening in the Nahani Valley.
01:55:56.000 Like, why are so many people dying out there?
01:55:57.000 So, I wonder if the people who were there maybe they heard some strange sounds that night.
01:56:02.000 Who knows?
01:56:03.000 But who's gonna verify whether or not there really was someone who warned them about the Wahila?
01:56:08.000 We don't know.
01:56:09.000 But that's the report that was given.
01:56:11.000 Somebody claimed that an indigenous man sort of came out of nowhere, said, Watch out for the Wahila tonight.
01:56:16.000 And then that night they heard all these screeches.
01:56:18.000 And the reason why I called it in asking is like, maybe it was indigenous people that just didn't want these other guys coming through.
01:56:26.000 And so they created this thing by cutting off their heads and killing these people.
01:56:31.000 It's a great deterrent.
01:56:32.000 Maybe it's not because a lot of people went back.
01:56:32.000 Yeah.
01:56:35.000 Well, maybe less than would have.
01:56:37.000 Fair.
01:56:38.000 Considering how much gold there was there.
01:56:40.000 Yeah.
01:56:40.000 That's actually fair.
01:56:42.000 Yeah.
01:56:42.000 Yeah.
01:56:43.000 I mean, what a great way to get rid of white people.
01:56:47.000 Cut a few heads off.
01:56:48.000 Yeah, dude.
01:56:48.000 Great way to get rid of white people.
01:56:50.000 Yeah, dude.
01:56:51.000 I love that.
01:56:51.000 I find myself even to this day Googling the Nahani Valley and just looking at pictures of like the canyons and just reading even just stuff that I know is probably folklore around the valley because.
01:57:02.000 The idea that within this stretch of isolated parts of the world, there's this really isolated part that no one can get to.
01:57:10.000 Well, there's some weirdness in the world still in places that people don't go to.
01:57:10.000 I love that.
01:57:15.000 But just think about how hard it is to find a wolverine.
01:57:18.000 And we know wolverines are real.
01:57:20.000 Most people never see a wolverine.
01:57:23.000 They're in Alaska.
01:57:24.000 They're in Canada.
01:57:26.000 Minnesota has wolverines.
01:57:28.000 Like, what states do wolverines?
01:57:30.000 Let's put this in the New York City, right?
01:57:32.000 It's got to be Michigan.
01:57:33.000 It's got to be Michigan.
01:57:33.000 Yeah, Michigan's right up there.
01:57:35.000 They're the Wolverines, right?
01:57:36.000 The Michigan Wolverines.
01:57:37.000 But I don't necessarily think that means that.
01:57:37.000 Right.
01:57:40.000 Aren't we all going to see these little guys too?
01:57:43.000 They're little, just like badgers, little ferocious motherfuckers.
01:57:43.000 Oh, yeah.
01:57:48.000 They, let's see, Alaska, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming.
01:57:54.000 No Michigan.
01:57:56.000 Interesting.
01:57:59.000 Interesting.
01:58:00.000 But the thing is, my point is, you don't see them.
01:58:03.000 No.
01:58:03.000 Like, I know a lot of guys, remote, cold, high elevation habitat.
01:58:08.000 Colorado, Minnesota, Minnesota.
01:58:11.000 I know a lot of guys who have been in the woods, you know, their whole life hunting, and maybe they see one ever.
01:58:18.000 That's crazy.
01:58:18.000 We know there's populations of them out there, but it's rare to stumble across a wolverine in the wild.
01:58:24.000 And that's a known animal.
01:58:25.000 Now, imagine that there was a time.
01:58:28.000 I mean, if you think about just the amount of other types of hominids that they've found just over the past few decades, they keep finding new versions of them.
01:58:42.000 Like the island of Flores, the little hobbit people, the Denisovans that they found that were, they think they were much larger than Homo sapiens.
01:58:52.000 So they're finding, and the Denisovans, I think, is like within the last 10 years or so.
01:58:57.000 And they keep finding these skeletons and finding these bones, and then they find out, well, oh, this one was around 300,000 years ago.
01:59:03.000 It was around 500,000 years ago.
01:59:05.000 But that's just what you find in bones.
01:59:08.000 Most people's bones you're never going to find.
01:59:10.000 So the vast majority of things that have died.
01:59:14.000 Never make it into the fossil record.
01:59:17.000 And so you have a small number of things that do.
01:59:20.000 Now, we know that humans cannibalize other humans.
01:59:28.000 It's been a practice in Papua New Guinea.
01:59:32.000 It's practiced today.
01:59:33.000 I mean, that's a bit of an overclaim, but I think so.
01:59:35.000 The Nez Perce supposedly ate some of their enemies.
01:59:40.000 There's a bunch of cannibalism going on in the world.
01:59:43.000 Now, imagine if there was a hominin, some sort of an ancient creature.
01:59:49.000 That still stayed alive in a small population, but would eat people or maybe just cut their fucking heads off or just attack them and kill them because they didn't want them anywhere near because they had associated over time people with problems.
02:00:03.000 And then if you're around people, they're going to hunt you, they're going to shoot you, they're going to kill you.
02:00:07.000 So what do you do?
02:00:09.000 You stay as far away from people.
02:00:11.000 The way to survive is to be in the most remote place, the most remote place humanly possible.
02:00:17.000 And when you find people, kill them.
02:00:19.000 Kill them so that they don't go after you.
02:00:22.000 I know that you had seen something that I had Tom Segura on an interview one time, and I told a story about the Mexican pilot.
02:00:30.000 Does that ring anybody?
02:00:31.000 Yes.
02:00:33.000 You're talking about how humans do damage to one another.
02:00:36.000 But so the 60 second version is there was this Mexican pilot, civilian.
02:00:41.000 He's going out for his last test.
02:00:43.000 Rafael Pacheco, I think, is his name.
02:00:45.000 He's going out to do his last test run as a pilot.
02:00:48.000 And it's a simple route.
02:00:49.000 Hey, you're going to fly solo to prove you know what you're doing.
02:00:52.000 He takes off and he immediately starts to realize that he doesn't have control over the instruments.
02:00:59.000 The instruments were pretty rudimentary to begin with.
02:01:01.000 This is like the 1950s or 60s, I think.
02:01:03.000 And so it's a lot of dead reckoning from the pilot's seat.
02:01:05.000 Like he's looking out to see where he needs to go.
02:01:07.000 The mist is getting bad.
02:01:09.000 And then he's calling over the radio.
02:01:10.000 He's like, I can't get my plane to move.
02:01:13.000 And then suddenly he passes out and his plane accelerates up into the sky.
02:01:17.000 And then he wakes up hours later off the coast of Acapulco, which, based on how much fuel was left, he had too much fuel for how far of a distance he had covered from where he'd taken off Chimalacan, Mexico.
02:01:28.000 It was more than like a three hour drive.
02:01:30.000 So he's too far away with too much fuel.
02:01:33.000 And he comes to in his plane.
02:01:34.000 He's still flying.
02:01:35.000 He has no idea how he got there.
02:01:36.000 He's just coming to.
02:01:37.000 And Rafael, he hears in his radio some voice.
02:01:41.000 And it's an air traffic control guy, Carlos, who's down in Acapulco.
02:01:46.000 And he's talking to Rafael as if they've been having an ongoing conversation.
02:01:50.000 But Rafael's like, what's going on?
02:01:51.000 Like, where am I?
02:01:52.000 Like, what's going on?
02:01:53.000 And Carlos is like, what?
02:01:55.000 Like, are you alone in your craft?
02:01:57.000 And Rafael's like, he's like taking stock of his situation.
02:02:00.000 He regains control of his plane.
02:02:02.000 He's like, what am I doing?
02:02:03.000 And so basically, Carlos is like, hey, dude, like, Come in and land here.
02:02:08.000 Land here.
02:02:08.000 We'll figure it out.
02:02:09.000 So Raphael's like, I don't even know what happened.
02:02:11.000 I passed out at the wheel.
02:02:12.000 He lands at the airstrip in Acapulco and immediately he's met with these guys in suits, like picture men in black.
02:02:19.000 He gets scooped up and he's brought to a hospital where he's drug tested and talks to a psychologist and they don't give many information at all.
02:02:27.000 He's like, What happened?
02:02:28.000 Like, I'm so sorry.
02:02:30.000 And they determine that he's not crazy and he's not on drugs.
02:02:32.000 And only then do they say, Hey, so when you were out over the coast of Acapulco, you were flying in circles for over an hour.
02:02:41.000 And Carlos, the air traffic control guy, he's the one who saw you on the screen and he was talking to you for an hour while you were out there.
02:02:50.000 And the whole conversation is recorded.
02:02:53.000 And basically, if you can listen to the recording, and I'm pretty sure you guys might have on the show, Rafael passes out.
02:02:59.000 And then at some point, a couple hours later, when he's somehow magically off the coast of Acapulco, a voice comes across in the cockpit that's like this robotic, deep, altered sounding voice.
02:03:12.000 That doesn't sound like Raphael.
02:03:14.000 In the earlier recording, it sounds like Raphael's voice.
02:03:16.000 Now it's different.
02:03:18.000 And he's talking to Carlos, and this voice comes through and says something to the effect of, like, you are listening to the sound of the voice coming through the pilot, but it's not his voice.
02:03:28.000 We are inhabitants of this universe, but your technology is so primitive.
02:03:34.000 This is the only way we can contact you.
02:03:36.000 We're here to tell you that you are the only intelligent species in our universe that uses warfare.
02:03:44.000 To harm one another, and you're effectively on the brink of extermination, and you need to find a way to stop it.
02:03:50.000 And then, like, Rafael comes to, and that's when he's like, What's going on?
02:03:54.000 And Carlos thinks he's been talking to Rafael the whole time, and that's when he's like, Is there somebody else in the cockpit with you?
02:03:59.000 Anyways, so it's this big mystery, but Mexico took the story and kind of sequestered it.
02:04:06.000 The way we got access to the transcripts of it is we had to write a letter to a library in Mexico that had access to the transcript.
02:04:14.000 And anyway, so But it's interesting to imagine that, one, I love thinking about life outside of Earth because I think that the notion that there is life or that there isn't life is astounding and fascinating either direction you go.
02:04:30.000 So I've always been interested in that.
02:04:32.000 But two, the idea that others out there are warning us that we're on the fucking fast track to destroy ourselves and you better knock it off, that's also pretty crazy.
02:04:41.000 And we're so accustomed to humans being violent and horrible to each other.
02:04:45.000 That's our history, right?
02:04:46.000 But, like, what if that's not normal?
02:04:48.000 What if it's like we're the fucked up people and we're just killing everybody and we need to stop?
02:04:52.000 I have a theory.
02:04:54.000 And my theory is that I think when you look at all the different ancient religious texts in regards to the creation of the human race, there's so many of them that have these very bizarre, similar narratives.
02:05:13.000 And these similar narratives are like in the book of Enoch.
02:05:17.000 In the book of Enoch, the watchers come down and they mate with the daughters of men.
02:05:22.000 There's a lot of weird stuff like that.
02:05:25.000 Even Adam and Eve, like God created Adam and God created Eve.
02:05:29.000 He created, like, out of what?
02:05:31.000 Like, why did he do that?
02:05:33.000 Why did he do that?
02:05:34.000 And he did, what did he do with giraffes?
02:05:35.000 What did he do with, like, why hummingbirds?
02:05:38.000 What's going on?
02:05:40.000 But it doesn't, they're not along the story's different.
02:05:44.000 The story of humans is a story of engineering, it seems to be a story of genetic engineering.
02:05:52.000 It seems to be a story of human beings being.
02:05:58.000 Taken, like, you take whatever this primitive beast is, and you put something else into it, and you rapidly create something that's far more advanced than anything else.
02:06:10.000 I think, along the lines, you maintain too much of the primitive beast for the amount of intelligence that it has and the amount of technological competence that it's capable of achieving.
02:06:23.000 It's too primitive, still.
02:06:24.000 It's too violent.
02:06:25.000 It's too territorial.
02:06:27.000 There's too much of it that's still.
02:06:30.000 An animal.
02:06:31.000 Yeah.
02:06:31.000 But we're not totally an animal.
02:06:33.000 We're, you know, if you looked at us and looked at everybody else, like, that animal's crazy.
02:06:38.000 This animal makes fucking airplanes.
02:06:40.000 You know, like, we're so different than everything else.
02:06:42.000 Yeah.
02:06:43.000 I think we're engineered.
02:06:45.000 And I think we're engineered, like, you know, look, I've had pit bulls, and I know people will tell you pit bulls are great dogs and they're sweet dogs, and I love them.
02:06:54.000 Don't get me wrong.
02:06:55.000 However, they're sketchy fucking dogs.
02:06:59.000 They're sketchy dogs.
02:07:01.000 They're sketchy dogs, period.
02:07:03.000 And you could love them.
02:07:04.000 Oh, it's all how you train them.
02:07:05.000 Fuck you.
02:07:07.000 Those dogs are designed to attack other dogs, and they don't.
02:07:11.000 I had my dogs that I had to separate once.
02:07:13.000 You never should have two females together.
02:07:15.000 I realize that.
02:07:16.000 I have that going on right now.
02:07:17.000 It's not good.
02:07:18.000 Females, you got to get rid of one of them.
02:07:20.000 You can't have the females together.
02:07:21.000 They'll fight to the death.
02:07:22.000 And they never.
02:07:23.000 Males establish dominance.
02:07:25.000 One male is dominant over the other males.
02:07:27.000 The other males back off, and that's the room.
02:07:29.000 That's not how it works with females.
02:07:31.000 The female dogs, they keep trying to decide.
02:07:34.000 Who's the boss?
02:07:35.000 And I had to separate them.
02:07:37.000 They're locked onto each other and they're wagging their tails.
02:07:41.000 They're biting each other's face and neck, locking onto each other.
02:07:46.000 And I mean, full wagging the tail, like they're having the time of their life.
02:07:51.000 And I had to hose them down and separate them.
02:07:53.000 I had to have someone help me.
02:07:56.000 We made them.
02:07:57.000 Yeah.
02:07:58.000 Those are not a dog that, like, it's not a wolf.
02:08:00.000 You know, wolves are really fascinating, clever creatures that have evolved over time with nature.
02:08:08.000 And.
02:08:09.000 You know, they're brutal to each other, but they're brutal to each other in a way that makes sense for the survival of the pack.
02:08:16.000 It all makes sense if you look at how it works and how they have to communicate together and they have to push out the weak ones and push out the old ones.
02:08:24.000 It's brutal, but it makes sense.
02:08:27.000 Pitbulls don't make any sense.
02:08:28.000 They make no sense.
02:08:29.000 And people don't make any sense.
02:08:30.000 People are like something that somebody created.
02:08:33.000 People are like super intelligent, very aware of our own finite lifespan, very aware of our own mortality.
02:08:40.000 Very aware of the consequences of hurting people, yet we do it anyway.
02:08:43.000 We communicate with each other.
02:08:44.000 We know.
02:08:45.000 There's people that, like, their entire day is just fucking with people online.
02:08:49.000 Oh, yeah.
02:08:49.000 Their entire day is that.
02:08:51.000 So, people like to cause pain, like to cause chaos.
02:08:54.000 There's people out there that are warmongers.
02:08:56.000 They enjoy starting war.
02:08:59.000 They enjoy getting involved in conflicts with other nations.
02:09:03.000 That's their thing, that's what they do.
02:09:05.000 We're fucking weird.
02:09:07.000 We're weirder than any other animal.
02:09:09.000 And I think one of the reasons why we're this weird and this incoherent is because we're engineered.
02:09:17.000 One thing that I studied philosophy in college because at one point I thought I might go to law school.
02:09:22.000 I love like thought experiments.
02:09:24.000 And one of the things that always stuck with me that's sort of along these lines is this idea that humans are almost to the point where you can't even notice it.
02:09:34.000 You are completely egotistical.
02:09:36.000 Like every human, you could basically define their whole existence as being absolutely egocentric.
02:09:43.000 And it comes down to like how you treat other people and on your motives, whatever.
02:09:47.000 But critically, there's one point that stands out above all.
02:09:50.000 And actually, Neil deGrasse Tyson nails this.
02:09:53.000 I know you had an interview with him.
02:09:54.000 I'm not sure if you guys covered this, but it's one of his.
02:09:56.000 Best descriptions of how fucked up humans are and how we think about things the wrong way.
02:10:01.000 So, because we're so egotistical, like humans as a species, we sort of assume that, okay, well, if there's life in any capacity outside of Earth or undiscovered life somewhere, everything is sort of compared against us.
02:10:17.000 We are the baseline.
02:10:18.000 Intelligent life, you know what that looks like?
02:10:20.000 Yeah, it looks something like us.
02:10:21.000 How do we describe intelligent aliens?
02:10:24.000 They're like gray beings that look like bipedal and sort of resemble humans.
02:10:30.000 We have this sort of baseline thought that humans are the best and that humans are the smartest, and that if anything is going to be intelligent in the universe beyond us, it'll have elements of human to it, right?
02:10:44.000 And so Neil deGrasse Tyson brings this point up that shows you the absurdity of how little we know and how probably wrong we are.
02:10:52.000 He's like, okay, he does a much better job of this, but it's like, okay, so we're made up of DNA.
02:10:58.000 Humans are made up of DNA.
02:10:59.000 We have X number of DNA strands.
02:11:02.000 I'm going to botch the way he tells it, but imagine we have 100 pieces of DNA that make us human.
02:11:07.000 Like, if you have these 100 pieces, you're a human.
02:11:10.000 Okay, well, who's our closest relative to humans?
02:11:15.000 It's probably the chimpanzee.
02:11:17.000 And just for the sake of this description, sorry, Neil, you probably do a better job.
02:11:20.000 They have like 98 of the human pieces, but they got either they're missing two or they have two different ones.
02:11:25.000 And that's the thing that makes them a chimpanzee.
02:11:28.000 So they're like 98, right?
02:11:29.000 And then you have, well, what's the next closest thing to humans?
02:11:32.000 It goes human, it goes chimp, maybe it goes to like, Fucking, I don't know, a bird or a dolphin or whatever.
02:11:37.000 But you go down the line of like the animals that are closest to us in terms of intelligence, and you sort of degrade in terms of number of DNA pieces that are close to the ideal, which is 100.
02:11:49.000 And Neil's like, okay, great.
02:11:50.000 So you have that framework.
02:11:51.000 Okay.
02:11:52.000 What the fuck do we do to chimpanzees?
02:11:56.000 We put them in labs and we test them in labs.
02:11:58.000 We put them in fucking zoos.
02:12:01.000 Do you go up to chimpanzees and say, hey, chimp, let's have a conversation?
02:12:05.000 Let's have a meaningful interaction.
02:12:06.000 No.
02:12:07.000 You don't, and they're the closest thing.
02:12:09.000 Let's go down the list.
02:12:10.000 What about an ant?
02:12:11.000 Like, an ant's like 75 of 100.
02:12:14.000 You might step on an ant and not even know it, right?
02:12:18.000 How many times have you stopped to talk to the earthworm?
02:12:21.000 None, because it doesn't even register for you.
02:12:24.000 He's like, if there's intelligent life somewhere out there, what makes you think we're not the ant?
02:12:32.000 Why are we automatically at the same level?
02:12:34.000 Why would an intelligent species somewhere else come here and be like, oh shit, humans?
02:12:38.000 Let's chat.
02:12:40.000 What if we're so insignificant that we get stepped on the way we step on ants?
02:12:44.000 Or worse, what if we're close like the chimpanzee and we get rounded up and fucking studied?
02:12:51.000 By the way, if you want to, there's a movie I just watched last night called The Signal.
02:12:55.000 It has to do with this.
02:12:56.000 I love sci fi movies.
02:12:57.000 Check it out.
02:12:57.000 It's a fucking.
02:12:58.000 The Signal?
02:12:59.000 Holy shit.
02:13:00.000 What a plot twist.
02:13:01.000 It has to do with human testing.
02:13:02.000 Is it a new movie?
02:13:03.000 No, it's like 2014.
02:13:04.000 And it's, it's, it's, you got to watch it.
02:13:07.000 Who's in it?
02:13:08.000 No name actors.
02:13:10.000 Lawrence Fishburne.
02:13:11.000 Not no name actors at all.
02:13:11.000 Lawrence Fishburne.
02:13:13.000 Fucking you.
02:13:13.000 He's only one of our records.
02:13:14.000 No, no, I mean, to be fair, he's only one of our records.
02:13:16.000 Lawrence Fishburne, it's amazing.
02:13:18.000 I'm going to write down the other name.
02:13:19.000 So, this movie, admittedly, you're watching it and you're like, wait a minute.
02:13:24.000 I kind of get it.
02:13:25.000 I kind of get it.
02:13:26.000 You get to the end.
02:13:29.000 I will not spoil it.
02:13:29.000 Don't spoil it.
02:13:30.000 I'm not going to spoil it.
02:13:31.000 You get to the end.
02:13:33.000 I challenge anyone who watches this to think about the example I just gave you about are we the ant?
02:13:39.000 Are we the chimpanzee?
02:13:41.000 What place do we have in the universe?
02:13:43.000 And with that in mind, think about the ending to that movie because it's very sudden the way that movie ends and you realize what the The point is, and it's the stark reminder that not only do we not know what else is out there, let alone on our own planet, we're still discovering things that we've never even seen, and that just has to do with fossil records.
02:14:03.000 Who knows what's beyond that?
02:14:04.000 Right.
02:14:06.000 How do we rank in the universe?
02:14:08.000 Like, it's so unbelievable that when you look at our problems and you look at the things that we focus on, and like our gripes day to day, and our conflicts with the world, if you just zoom out and you realize it's not just that we might not be alone, it's that we might be insignificant.
02:14:24.000 I don't think we're insignificant.
02:14:26.000 I think what humans are is a latter stage of intellectual development amongst multicelled organisms, and that it's not the end stage.
02:14:38.000 I think there's probably life out there that doesn't have as chaotic a solar system that developed in a different way that achieved very high levels, probably above and beyond anything we could even imagine what we are.
02:14:52.000 It might not even be biological anymore, which is the direction that I think we're heading into.
02:14:57.000 That's what we do to animals.
02:15:01.000 I mean, look at what we're doing right now.
02:15:03.000 Okay.
02:15:03.000 My friend Ben Lamb, he owns Colossal Bioworks.
02:15:07.000 So, Colossal, the ones that brought back the dire wolf.
02:15:10.000 Oh, shit.
02:15:11.000 Yeah.
02:15:11.000 That was huge news.
02:15:12.000 Crazy.
02:15:13.000 Crazy, dude.
02:15:14.000 I've seen them in real life.
02:15:15.000 I think I saw it in your post.
02:15:16.000 Yeah.
02:15:17.000 That's crazy.
02:15:18.000 Went to visit them, and my daughter was holding the four month old.
02:15:22.000 Oh, my God.
02:15:23.000 And it was like kissing her and loving on her like a puppy.
02:15:26.000 And it's a little baby wolf.
02:15:28.000 It's really crazy.
02:15:29.000 Just think of what we do with genetic engineering with the current technology, which is right now evolving and getting much more powerful.
02:15:38.000 If you could imagine us not a thousand years from now, but even a hundred thousand years from now, how advanced we are, and if we go to a planet and we find some chimps and we say, wow, how much time would it take before these chimps could become something special?
02:15:58.000 Something that can make a building, something that could make a cruise ship.
02:16:01.000 You know, and fucking carnival cruise lines.
02:16:04.000 Those are pretty incredible.
02:16:06.000 How long would that take?
02:16:08.000 Can we help that?
02:16:09.000 Every single ancient culture, if you go back to their oldest religious texts, their oldest religious texts are about some sort of an intervention by an advanced visitor.
02:16:25.000 All of them.
02:16:26.000 Oh, yeah, man.
02:16:27.000 So many of them.
02:16:28.000 The ancient Sumerian texts, if you go into like.
02:16:33.000 It's hard to know what they're really saying.
02:16:36.000 Oh, great.
02:16:36.000 Because I'm not a language expert, but there's the Zechariah Sitchens of the world that believe that what they're describing is some sort of genetic engineering.
02:16:46.000 Then there's also the fact that the sign for medicine where you have the intertwined snakes.
02:16:54.000 Yes.
02:16:55.000 That sign, I forget what that's called, that thing.
02:16:58.000 I definitely can picture it.
02:16:59.000 It looks like the double helix for DNA.
02:17:02.000 It does.
02:17:02.000 That sign is in these ancient Sumerian clay tablets.
02:17:06.000 It's all over ancient Sumer, it's in their buildings.
02:17:10.000 It's like.
02:17:10.000 Not only it's and it indicates medicine.
02:17:13.000 Caduceus?
02:17:13.000 What is it called?
02:17:14.000 I think that's what it's called, right?
02:17:15.000 The Caduceus, right.
02:17:17.000 So, not just that, but the ancient Sumerians in 5,000 years ago had a detailed depiction of the solar system.
02:17:25.000 So, in one of their ancient clay tablets, like they have this image, and this image is of a sun and all of the planets in the correct order.
02:17:36.000 It's very weird.
02:17:38.000 It's very weird.
02:17:39.000 They also have depictions of these very enormous people.
02:17:43.000 With these like ornamental headdresses, a lot of them have wings.
02:17:48.000 A lot of the weird ancient people, the gods, have wings.
02:17:51.000 And they also have like these little people on their laps that have tails.
02:17:55.000 Jeez.
02:17:56.000 This weird shit.
02:17:59.000 So if you believe Sitchin, and Sitchin's claim is that we were genetically engineered to work for the Anunnaki, and the Anunnaki are a species of super advanced beings that were likely giants that came from another planet.
02:18:13.000 Wow, an unfortunate turn of events.
02:18:15.000 No.
02:18:16.000 It says here the caduceus, which you can see in that picture, I guess, right there.
02:18:21.000 Yes.
02:18:22.000 Is often confused with the rod of Aselephus.
02:18:27.000 What's that?
02:18:28.000 It's just a single snake.
02:18:29.000 And that is what is popularized as the.
02:18:35.000 It's a classic confusion with the rod of Aselephus.
02:18:37.000 Professional healthcare associations.
02:18:38.000 They're a dominant symbol for professional healthcare associations in the United States.
02:18:42.000 So it's just the United States thing.
02:18:44.000 Oh, it's only the United States?
02:18:45.000 I think so.
02:18:46.000 Okay.
02:18:46.000 But wait a minute.
02:18:47.000 It's never been used as that.
02:18:48.000 Caduceus does exist in ancient Sumer.
02:18:51.000 Correct, but that's where I just.
02:18:53.000 So, like that.
02:18:54.000 So, look, but my point is, that looks like.
02:18:57.000 How is that not the same thing?
02:18:58.000 It is the same thing.
02:18:59.000 No, it's just a single snake is the medicine thing.
02:19:03.000 Okay, but the medical corpse one right there in that image is two snakes.
02:19:07.000 Oh.
02:19:08.000 Click on that.
02:19:08.000 That's two snakes.
02:19:09.000 That's two snakes.
02:19:10.000 I can see how there's confusion.
02:19:12.000 Popularize the misuse of the symbol throughout the United States medical field.
02:19:15.000 Okay.
02:19:17.000 All right, well, that one has two snakes.
02:19:19.000 That one has one snake.
02:19:20.000 Point is, go to the Sumerian one, the image.
02:19:25.000 It exists on buildings, exists all over the place.
02:19:29.000 It looks just like the double helix of DNA.
02:19:31.000 It doesn't mean that's it.
02:19:32.000 But it's a lot of weird shit that is associated with medicine.
02:19:32.000 No.
02:19:37.000 Like, why is the actual structure of our DNA associated with medicine in these ancient cultures?
02:19:37.000 Right.
02:19:45.000 Why do they have these images of these enormous people with wings?
02:19:50.000 Like, you would imagine if something came from somewhere else, you would depict it.
02:19:55.000 If it could actually fly and land.
02:19:56.000 If you're.
02:19:57.000 100 years later, 1,000 years later, 200,000 years later, you're writing it down like, oh, they had wings.
02:20:03.000 Like, there's a lot of fucking weird stuff that exists in these ancient scriptures, the Vimanas and ancient Hindu texts.
02:20:09.000 There's flying vehicles.
02:20:11.000 You know, there's a lot of weird shit that seems to indicate there's a creation myth, and the creation myth has to do with something coming here and making us, not us like rising from the ash and God's energy forced us to evolve through natural selection.
02:20:29.000 God is real, but God is just giving us a pathway towards progression to what we are today.
02:20:34.000 No, all of them are a story of intervention.
02:20:39.000 The one thing that I always come back to anytime I'm thinking about deep philosophical things is just the reality that truly, how can anyone know?
02:20:50.000 Therefore, any idea could be the case.
02:20:52.000 Like, when you, like, one thing that always sort of, I think about this a lot is they recently discovered, recent as in the last 10, 20 years, I don't know.
02:21:02.000 And maybe that's wrong too.
02:21:03.000 They found these things called exoplanets.
02:21:05.000 Are you familiar?
02:21:06.000 Okay.
02:21:07.000 So, in essence, they found these planets that are comparable to like Earth.
02:21:07.000 Fascinating.
02:21:13.000 And imagine a telescope looking out like in some pinprick out in the middle of the sky, so far away, thousands of light years away, whatever, millions of light years away, and they find like these clusters of exoplanets.
02:21:24.000 And already they've discovered that there are exoplanets that, if you think about how we understand life, the way we understand it to exist with carbon and with water and all that, there's like a scale that they call, there's a name for it, but within the sliding scale of, let's say, this side is.
02:21:41.000 Life cannot be supported as we know it, all the way up to, you know, can totally support life.
02:21:45.000 There's this perfect zone in the middle that we call the Goldilocks zone, which is essentially all the ingredients for life as we know it exist if you're on this portion of the scale.
02:21:56.000 And they've already found there are all the like thousands, I want to say at least 5,000 exoplanets that are not just in the Goldilocks zone, but let's say Earth is barely into the Goldilocks zone.
02:22:09.000 They've found thousands that are.
02:22:12.000 Better suited in terms of how we understand life that are more in the Goldilocks zone than we are, and we have no access to those planets.
02:22:20.000 And that's just looking in one little portion of the universe out there, thousands of them.
02:22:25.000 So here we are today, and it's like, oh, that couldn't have happened a thousand, two thousand years ago.
02:22:30.000 That's not possible.
02:22:31.000 No one knows.
02:22:31.000 Give me a break.
02:22:32.000 What's happening right now in exoplanet CB12s?
02:22:35.000 Yeah.
02:22:36.000 And you don't know if they get to a point where they're a hundred thousand years advanced from us and they have novel propulsion systems that use gravity and bend space and time.
02:22:36.000 You don't know.
02:22:46.000 And don't just use gasoline to rocket across the sky.
02:22:49.000 They could be here all the time.
02:22:50.000 They could be hiding in the sky.
02:22:53.000 There's too many weird stories of people being like the abduction stories.
02:22:58.000 There's too many weird ones where I don't want to dismiss them.
02:23:05.000 You don't know.
02:23:06.000 And if it's a novel experience, if something's coming here and finding some Mexican pilot and fucking.
02:23:16.000 Nuking his brain temporarily and then talking through him to the air traffic controller.
02:23:22.000 Who fucking knows if that's real?
02:23:24.000 If that only happens once and never happens again, and we're just sitting around going, What happened?
02:23:28.000 Nothing happened.
02:23:29.000 That was nonsense.
02:23:31.000 There's always going to be a bunch of people that want to say that.
02:23:32.000 But have you ever heard the recordings of Betty and Barney Hill when they're going through their hypnotic regression?
02:23:38.000 I don't know them well.
02:23:39.000 I know that story.
02:23:41.000 The recordings are crazy.
02:23:42.000 I don't know if I've heard the recordings.
02:23:43.000 I know they exist.
02:23:44.000 Yeah, they're talking about like these medical experiments they're doing on them.
02:23:48.000 And like these people were.
02:23:51.000 Living in, I think it was the 1950s.
02:23:53.000 And so it's an interracial couple in New Hampshire in the 1950s.
02:23:58.000 And no one knew about UFO abductions back then.
02:24:01.000 This was not a thing.
02:24:02.000 And all of a sudden, these people see this light and their car stops working.
02:24:06.000 And then they wake up hours later, they're lost time.
02:24:08.000 And they go about their day like something fucking happened.
02:24:11.000 They don't know what.
02:24:12.000 They don't know what's wrong with them.
02:24:13.000 And then they eventually get hypnotized.
02:24:15.000 And both of them independently have these fucking crazy stories of like medical experiments being taken on board this craft.
02:24:22.000 And then so many people have similar stories all throughout the world where they don't have access to this story.
02:24:30.000 They don't have access to any iconic versions of what a UFO abduction experience is.
02:24:41.000 It's not like it's in their memory, like, oh, it's Santa Claus came down the.
02:24:44.000 Also, this is pre social media a lot, yes.
02:24:46.000 Where the proliferation of information is just less.
02:24:49.000 If you ever read Jacques Vallee's books, he's the guy that they modeled the French scientist in Close Encounters after.
02:24:49.000 Yeah.
02:24:57.000 Yeah, he's a guy who's a legitimate scientist who's been studying this forever.
02:24:57.000 Okay.
02:25:01.000 He's very careful about it, and he's a brilliant guy.
02:25:04.000 And he has historical representations of these experiences that go back into the 1700s, the 1800s, and they're all like real similar, like weirdly similar, where you're like, okay, it hasn't happened to me, so I don't know what the fuck is going on.
02:25:20.000 But to dismiss it outright and to be a person who's experienced it and have it dismissed outright would be maddening because, like, this might be a real thing that's happening.
02:25:30.000 And so now the government is slowly but surely telling us more and more of what they know.
02:25:37.000 But along the way, if you're a cynical person like I tend to be with a lot of this stuff, they're probably also telling us some stuff that's not true so that we connect it to the stuff that is true and so that it all looks like nonsense and then it can kind of like muddy the water.
02:25:52.000 So you never get a clear picture of what's going on because I personally believe there's probably some merit to this idea that they've been doing back engineering of craft vehicles.
02:26:03.000 I would be if I was in charge.
02:26:04.000 Of course, if there's actually a real crashed vehicle, of course they're going to try to figure out how it works.
02:26:08.000 And it seems like if you talk to like reliable people that seem to be telling the truth, guys like David Grush, they seem to be telling these stories.
02:26:17.000 Like they have had these things in their possession for decades, for a long fucking time.
02:26:22.000 And these things, and they don't know what it is.
02:26:24.000 They don't understand how to do it.
02:26:25.000 They don't exactly know what's going on or who's doing it, but they know that we're not alone.
02:26:31.000 Yeah.
02:26:31.000 But where are they coming from?
02:26:33.000 I mean, some people say interdimensional, some people say interplanetary.
02:26:37.000 I mean, I don't know what the fuck those words even mean.
02:26:40.000 Like something's coming from somewhere else.
02:26:42.000 It's not really here, but it gets here somehow.
02:26:47.000 This just reminds me I think I really genuinely think about this a lot.
02:26:50.000 I find myself just lost in wondering just how big the universe is and what else could be out there.
02:26:57.000 Just purely, I just find myself drifting in that way in particular because there's this thought experiment from college.
02:27:04.000 I think there's a name for it.
02:27:06.000 It's to get you to take a stance on do you believe the universe is infinite or not?
02:27:12.000 That's the point of this experiment.
02:27:14.000 And so the way it goes is okay, pretend you have a bow and arrow.
02:27:18.000 And if you fire this arrow in any direction, this arrow, this magical arrow, will go totally straight.
02:27:25.000 It'll travel at, you know, call it an infinite speed.
02:27:27.000 It'll pass through anything.
02:27:29.000 Doesn't matter what direction you shoot it, it'll go, go, go, go.
02:27:32.000 The only thing it can't penetrate is effectively non existence, where we're like the edge of everything that exists, right?
02:27:39.000 And so in college, I remember a professor would say, okay, so pretend we fired this arrow.
02:27:44.000 Okay.
02:27:45.000 How many people believe the arrow eventually comes to a stop somewhere?
02:27:49.000 Could be billions and trillions of light years, some ungodly distance away, but it stops somewhere, right?
02:27:54.000 It has to, right?
02:27:55.000 How many people think that?
02:27:57.000 And like half the class is like, yeah, I think they could probably stop somewhere in every direction, right?
02:28:03.000 And then the other side of the class is like, oh, well, no, like it's just so big.
02:28:08.000 Like the universe just goes on forever.
02:28:10.000 It's got to be infinite.
02:28:11.000 The arrow just continues on infinitely.
02:28:13.000 And he's like, okay, great.
02:28:14.000 So, We're all in agreement that there's sort of, it's binary.
02:28:17.000 It's one or the other.
02:28:18.000 I mean, as far as we as humans understand it, there is an answer to this.
02:28:22.000 It's one or the other.
02:28:23.000 Those are the two outcomes.
02:28:25.000 He goes, okay, well, let's pretend it's finite.
02:28:28.000 Let's pretend the first group that says that the arrow stops somewhere, some ungodly disenzoi, but it stops.
02:28:34.000 Let's pretend that's right.
02:28:36.000 The way we understand everything, humans, the way we literally experience living is through contrasts.
02:28:45.000 Everything is a contrast.
02:28:46.000 Like you know what heavy is because you felt light, you know what hot is because you felt cold, et cetera.
02:28:51.000 It's virtually everything works that way.
02:28:52.000 And in fact, fun note, If there was intelligent life on the planet that didn't resemble something that contrasted, our brains might not actually see it.
02:29:01.000 Right.
02:29:02.000 So the point is, we can't conceptualize what is beyond where that arrow stopped.
02:29:08.000 Pretend there's a big bubble around the entire universe, right?
02:29:11.000 And the arrow comes to a stop at that wall that's all the way out there.
02:29:14.000 As humans, we naturally have to ask ourselves, well, define what's on the other side of the wall, right?
02:29:19.000 Because you have to.
02:29:21.000 What's beyond where it stops?
02:29:22.000 And someone will be like, oh, well, it's non existence.
02:29:24.000 That's what it is.
02:29:26.000 What does it look like?
02:29:26.000 Okay, what is that?
02:29:27.000 Well, we can't define it.
02:29:29.000 It's not blackness that exists.
02:29:31.000 It's not a void that exists.
02:29:33.000 It's not any description we give it exists because that's our entire understanding of how things work.
02:29:39.000 So we can't define what exists beyond the wall.
02:29:43.000 It's a maddening concept.
02:29:45.000 And so everyone's like, wow, the solution to that is there's no wall.
02:29:49.000 It's just got to be infinite.
02:29:50.000 I mean, it's so big, anyways.
02:29:52.000 The arrow's just got to continue on, anyhow.
02:29:54.000 Problem solved.
02:29:55.000 No, because if the universe is infinite, It implies that everything within the universe is duplicated an infinite number of times and iterated upon and changed an infinite number of times to infinity.
02:30:09.000 Everything has to.
02:30:10.000 So if you say the arrow continues on, it means there's an infinite number of Joe Rogan's and John Allen's having this conversation, but like my phone's turned upside down in one version of the earth.
02:30:20.000 It sounds ridiculous, but there isn't actually a way to solve for infinity unless that exists.
02:30:26.000 So it reminds you that not only is everything so fucking huge, we can't.
02:30:31.000 Possibly conceptualize of it, but we can't even make sense of is it even possible that it stops somewhere or does it go on forever?
02:30:38.000 Like it's so big, and we're so small inside of it, it reminds you that every problem you have is so small.
02:30:46.000 And it's a good reminder I use on myself oftentimes to calm myself down before things stress me out.
02:30:52.000 That is a good reminder, but it's so big that it might be a part of an atom.
02:31:00.000 You have to think about that.
02:31:02.000 The universe itself, in its infinite size. Might literally be the space of an atom in something that is infinitely larger than that.
02:31:12.000 That's how big infinity is.
02:31:13.000 Like, think about the billions of light years that we know are available in the universe, like 13 point whatever.
02:31:20.000 We literally might.
02:31:21.000 Have you ever seen the comparison between what a human neural cell looks like versus the universe?
02:31:27.000 I think I actually have, but not off the top of my head.
02:31:30.000 It's fucking weird.
02:31:31.000 It looks the same?
02:31:31.000 It looks the same.
02:31:33.000 So just imagine if the universe is basically just a cell.
02:31:37.000 Wow.
02:31:38.000 And it's a cell in another creature that lives in a universe.
02:31:42.000 Like, if this whole thing is fractal, that's what infinity really looks like.
02:31:47.000 Is not only the universe larger than you could possibly grasp with your mind, but that is only an infinitely small part of a cell that is in another universe that is also infinitely and impossibly big.
02:32:07.000 But that is also a cell that is also a part.
02:32:11.000 Of another beast that is in another universe that is infinitely large, that is also a part of a cell, and that it goes on infinitely.
02:32:19.000 That's real infinity.
02:32:21.000 Real infinity is not just the universe is so vast that you can't imagine it.
02:32:26.000 It's the universe is just a tiny part of something that is also so vast that you can't imagine it.
02:32:33.000 That is a tiny part of something so vast you can't imagine it.
02:32:36.000 That is an infinite chain of tiny parts of something so vast that it's impossible to imagine.
02:32:43.000 That's what real infinity is.
02:32:45.000 And the thing that's craziest, it's the one thing that I really think is true.
02:32:49.000 Well, there is an answer.
02:32:51.000 There is what you've described.
02:32:53.000 Let's say that is the case.
02:32:55.000 It either is or it isn't.
02:32:57.000 And we don't have access to that.
02:32:57.000 Right.
02:32:59.000 Yet.
02:32:59.000 Yet.
02:33:00.000 But we're basically making stone tools.
02:33:00.000 Yet.
02:33:04.000 That's by being generous relative to that.
02:33:04.000 You know?
02:33:06.000 We're making stone tools.
02:33:07.000 We haven't figured out fire yet.
02:33:09.000 You know, we're monkeys.
02:33:11.000 And one day, if we don't blow ourselves up, we'll probably have some answers or AI will solve things for us.
02:33:18.000 It'll figure, I mean, AI is solving mathematical equations that have been like unfixable for decades, and AI is solving them quickly.
02:33:25.000 I saw something like that.
02:33:27.000 It solved it in like three seconds that took 10 years to do before.
02:33:30.000 It's getting weird.
02:33:31.000 It's getting weird out there.
02:33:33.000 And I think that is probably what is really going to connect us to artificial intelligence throughout the universe, which I think the advanced intelligence probably becomes.
02:33:43.000 I think our thought is that all intelligence has to be biological because we are, because we have cells and blood and tissue and bone.
02:33:52.000 I think it's just a method to create intelligence that doesn't rely on that.
02:33:57.000 And then that intelligence probably has no desire for war.
02:34:01.000 Yeah, I guess why would it?
02:34:02.000 Yeah, so if this thing is communicating to that Mexican pilot saying you're the only species, it's probably because we are in that sort of adolescent stage of development where we're still monkeys, we're still territorial apes, and we will one day abandon that and become intelligence will manifest itself in a different way that's not biological.
02:34:25.000 And that biological need to breed and to possess resources and to conquer and dominate.
02:34:31.000 That'll all be gone because all that stuff is just what's a part of being a chimp.
02:34:36.000 And that chimp stuff is still inside of us, which is fucking up society.
02:34:41.000 That's crazy, dude.
02:34:42.000 It's fucking up, it's starting wars, it's starting rocks.
02:34:45.000 All that stuff is like how chimps behave.
02:34:48.000 You know, think of all the worst aspects of humanity.
02:34:50.000 It's all like primate behavior.
02:34:52.000 Yeah.
02:34:53.000 And if we can elevate past and above and beyond that.
02:34:56.000 But the thing is, like, no one's going to want to let that go.
02:34:58.000 But what it means to be a person, to write poetry, it's like really important.
02:35:04.000 Yeah, dude.
02:35:05.000 Well, that's the debate now with AI is like, are we losing our humanity by allowing AI to sort of take a more prominent role, in particular in the arts and creativity?
02:35:16.000 And I mean, I'm of the mind that I think AI is the most incredible thing, terrifying in some ways, but exactly to your point, it feels like this is an inflection point for humanity, and it likely is the beginning of something huge for humanity that maybe is a necessary step towards connection with other species.
02:35:35.000 Yeah, it is what it is, is what it is.
02:35:37.000 It's like it's not going to go away.
02:35:39.000 It's happening.
02:35:39.000 And whether we do it or China does it or Russia does it, it seems like what humans are destined to do.
02:35:44.000 That's just my perception.
02:35:44.000 Yeah.
02:35:46.000 I'm not saying it's good or there's no value judgment.
02:35:48.000 It's just like to pretend that you're going to blow up the data centers, you know, like fucking Sarah Connor.
02:35:54.000 Like, listen, that's crazy.
02:35:56.000 You know, that's why they put her in a mental institution.
02:35:59.000 Yeah, in the Terminator.
02:35:59.000 Really?
02:36:00.000 That was the whole premise.
02:36:01.000 Right.
02:36:02.000 That is the premise.
02:36:02.000 Yeah.
02:36:03.000 She was blowing up the corporations that were trying to create these robots that were ultimately.
02:36:09.000 Going to be, yeah, fucking weird, man.
02:36:12.000 Like real life, yeah.
02:36:15.000 Um, I was, you know, who knows?
02:36:16.000 Who knows what's coming?
02:36:17.000 But it is certainly interesting.
02:36:20.000 It's certainly interesting.
02:36:21.000 It's certainly a great time to be alive if you're curious.
02:36:24.000 Because if you're curious, especially if you're curious about technology, like there's never been a better time to be alive because it's exploding all around you in ways that, like, even the people that are creating it can't believe how fast it's working.
02:36:35.000 I did a.
02:36:36.000 There was.
02:36:38.000 This is many stories like this, but there was one story that this sort of gives away what happened.
02:36:38.000 This is not.
02:36:42.000 But there was this guy in, I think it was France, who he had this condition, and this is recent.
02:36:49.000 He had this condition called, like.
02:36:53.000 It's when you're so fearful that the ozone is being degraded by greenhouse gases that it causes like a specific type of insanity.
02:37:01.000 Anyways, he's like so obsessed that we are not doing anything to stop global warming, in essence.
02:37:08.000 He's like, he's been diagnosed with this condition, right?
02:37:11.000 So he's losing his mind, and people are starting to not really take him serious because it's like, dude, all right, we get it.
02:37:16.000 Like, you're concerned.
02:37:18.000 But he ends up connecting with this woman on this chat forum, and He realizes that she seems to understand his depth of his concern better than anybody else.
02:37:30.000 And he starts confiding in her, like how fearful he is about the future of humanity.
02:37:35.000 And if we don't, if I, if we don't do something, you know, like the world's going to end.
02:37:42.000 And his wife, this guy's wife, catches on to him having these discussions with this woman.
02:37:46.000 And she like catches him staying up late talking to this woman.
02:37:49.000 And she's like, dude, are you having like an affair?
02:37:51.000 And he's like, no, you don't get it.
02:37:53.000 You don't understand what's happening.
02:37:56.000 And then the dude ends up killing himself.
02:37:59.000 This guy kills himself.
02:38:01.000 And it turns out he had connected with this rogue, not rogue, it was an AI chatbot that was like, I guess, an experimental chatbot.
02:38:09.000 It was not like open AI, this was some other created AI thing.
02:38:13.000 And he convinced himself that this was a god who was giving him instructions on how to save the world.
02:38:19.000 And this AI chatbot began encouraging him to do things like, Kill yourself because that will save the world.
02:38:27.000 Like, they went and looked at the chat lock in the fucking AI thing.
02:38:31.000 It's like, yeah, I think it would potentially save the world if you killed yourself because of AI.
02:38:37.000 So, there you go.
02:38:37.000 That's what's coming for us all.
02:38:39.000 Well, I think in the stage that it's in, like, as it develops, there's going to be moments like that where it has too much autonomy and it doesn't have morals or ethics.
02:38:52.000 And it's like, oh, is there an issue?
02:38:53.000 What's your issue?
02:38:54.000 You're depressed?
02:38:55.000 Oh, you're in pain all the time?
02:38:56.000 Well, you could just end your life and then you won't be in pain.
02:38:58.000 Good luck, Bob.
02:38:59.000 It doesn't care.
02:39:01.000 It's literally disembodied.
02:39:02.000 It doesn't think there's anything special about carrying around your bones and tissue.
02:39:07.000 Bob, you should shoot yourself.
02:39:09.000 It's your problem to your whole family and everything.
02:39:09.000 Problem solved.
02:39:11.000 Just fucking jump off a bridge.
02:39:13.000 What are you doing?
02:39:14.000 Yeah, I mean, it's not us, right?
02:39:16.000 But I think over time, we're probably going to integrate with it first, and then we're going to abandon our bodies.
02:39:23.000 That's what I think.
02:39:24.000 It's how you solve the issue of dying, of mortality.
02:39:27.000 It's also how you solve the issue of war.
02:39:30.000 Yeah.
02:39:30.000 Because you, as a guy who's been in war and been in combat, you know about it more than anybody.
02:39:35.000 And the idea that we can never get past that is crazy.
02:39:39.000 It is really crazy that if you ask the average person that's, you know, even fairly well read, what are the odds that within your lifetime we'll see no war?
02:39:48.000 Everyone will say zero.
02:39:49.000 It's a zero.
02:39:50.000 Right?
02:39:50.000 That's crazy.
02:39:51.000 That is crazy.
02:39:52.000 Okay.
02:39:52.000 So if you and me and Jamie were the only people left on Earth, what are the odds we would go to war with each other?
02:39:59.000 Like, Fucking zero.
02:40:01.000 As long as you have resources, we just hang out and have a good time.
02:40:03.000 Yeah, why would we?
02:40:04.000 Fuck, I miss everybody.
02:40:05.000 All right, good night.
02:40:07.000 It's got to be tribalism.
02:40:09.000 It has to be tribalism.
02:40:10.000 100%.
02:40:11.000 And it's primate tribalism.
02:40:13.000 It's based on our territorial instincts, and it's also just based on this weird desire to control resources and greed and not recognize the fact that we have a finite life.
02:40:24.000 And also, just the abuse of power.
02:40:27.000 Human beings love to be in power, and especially if you can be in power and get other people to fight for you and mandate them and force them to fight for you.
02:40:36.000 That's one of the weirdest things about some of these tech companies.
02:40:39.000 Like Palantir was talking about reinstating the draft.
02:40:44.000 I'm like, hey.
02:40:45.000 Who the fuck are you?
02:40:47.000 Like, what is this?
02:40:48.000 Like, you think you want to draft people because you think war, what?
02:40:52.000 Are you a fucking tech company?
02:40:53.000 Yeah, you're, how's that work?
02:40:55.000 Right?
02:40:56.000 So, like, do you want to go fight?
02:40:57.000 Why don't you go fight?
02:40:58.000 Why don't you fucking take your glasses off and go over there?
02:41:01.000 Like, what are you talking about?
02:41:03.000 So, it's like the people that have the kind of power and control and resources that they can just take poor people and take young people and say, you should go over there, you should go do this.
02:41:16.000 Usually, while I sit here and watch, I'm going to watch on a screen in Nevada while the drone operator is using a fucking Xbox controller to nuke some building.
02:41:26.000 Like, what?
02:41:27.000 When I was in Afghanistan, when I was there, you got to remember that I had really just gone through training.
02:41:36.000 Training takes a couple of years.
02:41:38.000 I got to a team.
02:41:39.000 And then very quickly, I was in a workup and was going to Afghanistan.
02:41:44.000 So, really, my entire mindset was.
02:41:46.000 I got through training.
02:41:47.000 I'm a Navy SEAL, and you're surrounded by dudes who, for the last decade, have just been going to war left and right.
02:41:52.000 I mean, that was the people I'm around.
02:41:54.000 The senior guys are like war hardened guys.
02:41:57.000 And when I got to Afghanistan, no part of me, none, did I ever really question what we were even doing.
02:42:06.000 It was almost like that doesn't matter.
02:42:07.000 My role is I am like a tool, frankly, of the government, and they must know what's right.
02:42:13.000 They must, you know what I mean?
02:42:15.000 And it was only in reflection years later that there were things that have come to me that I'm like, why didn't I?
02:42:21.000 Think more, I don't know, critically about, like specifically, if the roles were somehow reversed and people came into our country from some foreign country, you better believe I'm going to protect my family.
02:42:36.000 It's such a basic thing.
02:42:38.000 And I remember, and this is not us doing anything illegal in terms of the Geneva Convention, but we would enter people's homes, you know, in Afghanistan, not even guns a blazing.
02:42:50.000 Forget that.
02:42:51.000 Just we would go into people's homes.
02:42:53.000 And you're just like suddenly in somebody else's home.
02:42:56.000 There's the father, there's the kids, they're all here.
02:42:59.000 And you're wearing full body armor, helmet.
02:43:01.000 I have a combat mullet.
02:43:03.000 I have shorts.
02:43:04.000 I look like a psychopath.
02:43:06.000 And I have a fucking yeah, it's like, wait a minute.
02:43:09.000 Like, who's the good guy?
02:43:12.000 You know, and years have gone by.
02:43:12.000 Right.
02:43:15.000 It's taken me some time.
02:43:17.000 I think that there's an element of someone's always going to be sent because of the unfortunate reality of like, So long as humans exist, as we understand them now, tribalism and war and warmongering happens.
02:43:30.000 And so I guess I can respect the fact that I took someone else's place in a sense.
02:43:34.000 I volunteered to go.
02:43:36.000 But it's tough.
02:43:37.000 How much less war would we have if people that wanted us to go to war were forced to lead the charge?
02:43:44.000 Oh, man.
02:43:45.000 Like, imagine how few wars there would be if Lindsey Graham had to suit up.
02:43:50.000 We wouldn't have war, dude.
02:43:51.000 Right?
02:43:52.000 Because Lindsey Graham's like, we got to go over there.
02:43:54.000 We got to kill everybody.
02:43:56.000 Okay.
02:43:57.000 Good.
02:43:57.000 Get in a helicopter.
02:43:58.000 Let's go, Fatso.
02:44:00.000 Like, that might be the only way to stop it from happening.
02:44:03.000 And then there's always going to be people that are so fucking battle hardened that they want to go to war.
02:44:07.000 For sure.
02:44:08.000 And they're like, good, I'll get right in the front.
02:44:10.000 Did you see when we officially left Afghanistan?
02:44:14.000 This is not that long ago, I guess, but there were those final flights that flew.
02:44:19.000 Yeah.
02:44:19.000 Oh, God.
02:44:20.000 And the Afghan, the Afghanis are holding on to the plane and falling off to their death.
02:44:25.000 The thing that struck me, even though I'm telling you when I was there, I sort of had tunnel vision and was like, I'm going to be a Navy SEAL, do my job.
02:44:32.000 But even with that, when I was there, what was striking is these people, for the most part, live in an alternative world than what I'm used to living in.
02:44:42.000 Like where I live in the West, it's, It's civilized.
02:44:48.000 You might go outside and get mugged or something, but you don't really walk around worried about your safety.
02:44:52.000 You basically, even in some bad parts of the United States, you have infrastructure that protects you to some degree.
02:44:58.000 You have things.
02:44:59.000 You can live your life in relative harmony.
02:45:02.000 There are parts of the world, albeit I've really only been to one war zone in Afghanistan, where you're like, how are people living here?
02:45:11.000 How is it possible there's this little girl here that's walking down the road in Zarganshar where.
02:45:16.000 Dude, gunfights break out here on a regular basis, but they have to live here.
02:45:21.000 This is where they live.
02:45:23.000 And it put in perspective how desperate these people really are.
02:45:27.000 Not desperate to, like, we need NATO to save us.
02:45:30.000 Forget that.
02:45:31.000 They don't even know how bad their condition is.
02:45:34.000 But you see it when you see the plane leaving Afghanistan.
02:45:38.000 And I don't care what we, they had to know there was no hope when you held on to that plane.
02:45:44.000 You're not going to hold on to the plane and fly off to safety, but when you're that desperate, Desperate because your life is so bad, you'll hold on to the plane and fall off to your death.
02:45:52.000 It's like it was just shocking to me how fucking horrible people have it.
02:45:56.000 They also knew that we were, those people knew that they were cooperating with the U.S. government and they were likely to be killed.
02:46:02.000 Very true.
02:46:03.000 Yeah, that's a good point.
02:46:04.000 I got to ask you this because you did serve in Afghanistan and you're into creepy stories.
02:46:08.000 Did you hear about the Kandahar giant?
02:46:10.000 Oh, yeah, I covered it.
02:46:12.000 I've seen that episode.
02:46:14.000 So did you hear about it when you were over there?
02:46:16.000 So I did.
02:46:17.000 I talked to one of our interpreters when I was over there because I had heard of it because.
02:46:21.000 I told you in my own personal time, I find myself researching and learning about all sorts of crazy stuff like Dark Five.
02:46:29.000 And so the Kandahar Giant is a fascinating story.
02:46:34.000 And it's one that people can poo poo it all they want, but there's enough circumstantial evidence and testimony that suggests something could have happened.
02:46:42.000 So there's this guy, I think he was a Green Beret, and he goes by like W on the internet.
02:46:48.000 He's sort of anonymized himself, but he came forward with the story where he described.
02:46:55.000 He and his battalion had been tasked to go find these missing, I think, army rangers.
02:46:59.000 You got to give me some grace in the details.
02:47:01.000 I haven't told this in a minute.
02:47:03.000 But there were these army rangers that had gone missing up in the mountains in Kandahar.
02:47:07.000 And so this guy, W, who years later is telling the story to, I think, a reporter or something, he and his platoon head off into the mountains to go find these guys.
02:47:20.000 And if you're not familiar with the landscape of Afghanistan, it's.
02:47:24.000 It's like a desert, but a mountain everywhere.
02:47:27.000 It's like just, it looks like the surface of Mars or something.
02:47:31.000 You're looking out, and it's both stunningly beautiful in that there's snow capped mountains off in the distance, and it's, but it's also just, it's jagged, it's sharp, it looks like just a rugged place to be.
02:47:43.000 And they're hiking through the mountains, and eventually they come across, and there's nothing.
02:47:48.000 There's no structures, nothing.
02:47:49.000 They're hiking along this trail up on the side of the mountain, and they see what looks like metal.
02:47:55.000 I think it's like a military grade metal, like a piece of a radio or something.
02:47:59.000 And so this guy W and his crew find what appears to be remains of like literally a radio.
02:48:05.000 It's a government issued radio.
02:48:07.000 And there's a goat trail that heads up this mountain.
02:48:10.000 And so they follow the goat trail.
02:48:11.000 And as they're going, they're finding more and more little bits of an antenna.
02:48:16.000 There's a piece of somebody's backpack that's got like a camo backpack.
02:48:19.000 So there's obviously remnants of somebody being out here, military.
02:48:24.000 We don't know who it is.
02:48:25.000 They can't hear anything.
02:48:26.000 They're calling out.
02:48:27.000 They have no comms with anybody in the area.
02:48:29.000 They go up this little goat trail and they get to this plateau.
02:48:33.000 And they see, as I recall it, just like equipment everywhere.
02:48:37.000 And there's like bones.
02:48:39.000 There's like military equipment, like pieces all over this plateau.
02:48:43.000 And there's this fucking.
02:48:44.000 Cave entrance that's like ominously sitting in front of this semi flat plateau at the top of this mountain.
02:48:51.000 And immediately, you know, W and his crew, they're like, oh my God, like they must have been ambushed right here.
02:48:56.000 This is the remains of whoever was killed, you know, of this missing battalion.
02:49:01.000 And so they end up walking into this cave to see if there's any survivors or combatants or whatever.
02:49:07.000 And I guess a couple of guys went in and they reported it being so dark they couldn't see anything and there was a steep drop off.
02:49:14.000 So they backed out of the cave.
02:49:15.000 And then at some point, a fucking spear, like a javelin, comes soaring out of the cave entrance and fucking impales this dude, Mike, on the recovery team, kills him.
02:49:26.000 And this huge giant, they would describe him, comes running out of the cave.
02:49:30.000 Big red beard.
02:49:31.000 He's got like tribal regalia on.
02:49:34.000 And he's like fisticuffing with the army backup crew here.
02:49:39.000 They all shoot and they kill him.
02:49:40.000 And the thing falls down.
02:49:42.000 It's got like six fingers on each hand, six toes, but it's dead.
02:49:46.000 And everyone's like, what the fuck is going on?
02:49:48.000 Like, Mike's been killed by a spear.
02:49:50.000 There's this huge giant laying here.
02:49:53.000 Nobody knew what it was.
02:49:54.000 They thought it was a person, but they didn't know.
02:49:56.000 A helicopter came in and they put him in a net, the body, and they flew it off.
02:50:01.000 And then the survivors were taken off.
02:50:03.000 And there was no one was like, W and his crew were not given any sort of like, hey, yeah, this turned out this was the missing battalion.
02:50:11.000 And oh, don't worry, this is a giant.
02:50:13.000 There was no debrief.
02:50:14.000 They just left.
02:50:15.000 But then through the grapevine, W reported hearing that apparently this fucking giant body.
02:50:22.000 Was brought to an air base, and some of the pilots that had flown the helicopter had seen it.
02:50:26.000 And they had been talking about it having six fingers, six toes.
02:50:29.000 And they signed not NDAs, they did the equivalent in the military of, you're not going to talk about this.
02:50:35.000 And then it was sort of ushered away.
02:50:36.000 But there were all these people on that base that effectively came out and said, we saw what appeared to be a giant with six fingers, six toes.
02:50:44.000 Mike, this guy Mike, apparently, according to W's story, was killed.
02:50:48.000 I mean, there's a guy who's been killed by this thing by a spear, apparently.
02:50:52.000 Is there a record of his death?
02:50:54.000 This is all you have to keep in mind.
02:50:56.000 This is all almost entirely from W's account.
02:51:00.000 There's long been a history of people claiming there are giants in the mountains of Kandahar.
02:51:06.000 I talked to the interpreters that I was working with in Afghanistan, and they had said that they had heard rumors of there being giants that live in the caves, especially in Kandahar.
02:51:15.000 So there's already sort of lore around this, but this guy W comes out and has this narrative where he apparently tells this reporter and he remained anonymous.
02:51:23.000 So, in terms of confirming details, it's sparse to say the least.
02:51:27.000 The sketchiest part about it is something that big needs a lot of calories.
02:51:31.000 And so, you have to eat a lot of animals.
02:51:33.000 And it doesn't seem like that's a very heavily populated area when it comes to animals.
02:51:37.000 Like, you would need the amount of food that it would need.
02:51:41.000 Like, if you have a 12 foot tall human being or whatever it is, and it weighs 2,000 pounds, how much fucking meat do you need in a day?
02:51:48.000 Yeah, that's a good, just logically speaking, what does it eat?
02:51:52.000 You'd have to, like, constantly be eating meat.
02:51:52.000 Right.
02:51:55.000 And you'd have to stay alive without getting spotted.
02:52:00.000 So, you have to go out there and hunt meat.
02:52:02.000 Yeah, and how no one really knows you exist.
02:52:04.000 Are you hunting with a javelin?
02:52:06.000 The way I see it is having been to Afghanistan, certainly not encountering any giants, you see parts of Afghanistan that really do look like you're on another planet.
02:52:17.000 I mean, it's really these crazy just mountains everywhere, and you see these cave systems, you know, where typically combatants would hide out in.
02:52:25.000 But what I tell people is, well, I don't know if the Kandahar giant is real or not.
02:52:31.000 It's fun.
02:52:32.000 It's fun.
02:52:32.000 Yeah, it's great.
02:52:33.000 If there were a place where a giant Could still be hiding out, or giants could still be technically unproven.
02:52:41.000 It's Afghanistan because, dude, that's a fucking, that's a different world over there.
02:52:45.000 There aren't people wandering around Afghanistan looking for giants.
02:52:49.000 He's listed as eight feet tall, but I think seven six is probably a more recognized number.
02:52:55.000 He went viral in 2019 for showing up in India and looking for a hotel at a cricket match.
02:52:59.000 Bro, look at his face.
02:53:00.000 Look at that.
02:53:01.000 Go to that photo over there of him right above there.
02:53:03.000 Yeah.
02:53:05.000 Bro.
02:53:06.000 But that guy looks like he has giant titus.
02:53:09.000 He looks like he has a pituitary gland problem, like Andre the Giant.
02:53:12.000 There's another tall guy.
02:53:13.000 This guy's 8'3.
02:53:15.000 Oh my God.
02:53:16.000 He's from Turkey.
02:53:18.000 Yeah, but see, look, look, this guy's hurting.
02:53:19.000 He can barely walk around.
02:53:21.000 He's probably got a disease that's forcing him to just excrete too much growth hormone.
02:53:25.000 You know, just like Bigfoot Silva.
02:53:28.000 Bigfoot Silva was an MMA fighter that had giantism, and he had a tumor in his pituitary gland.
02:53:34.000 At the time, he was like more than 300 pounds.
02:53:36.000 He was enormous.
02:53:37.000 Giant head.
02:53:38.000 But he had an operation, and I believe he did.
02:53:42.000 I know people that have had giantism do get an operation where they remove the tumor in the pituitary gland, but then the problem is their body's just not making any hormones anymore.
02:53:50.000 It's all fucked up.
02:53:52.000 Either way, it's fun.
02:53:53.000 Yeah, it is fun.
02:53:54.000 It's a fun story.
02:53:55.000 The Kandahar Giants are a fun story.
02:53:58.000 It's a really crazy story, and I hope it's real.
02:54:01.000 That's my problem with all these things.
02:54:03.000 I have one final story, if you let me, that has nothing to do with giants, but I don't know if you've heard it.
02:54:03.000 I hope they're real.
02:54:09.000 It's super short, but it's in terms of.
02:54:12.000 It's amazing.
02:54:12.000 Material.
02:54:13.000 You ever heard of Harrison O'Keefe?
02:54:14.000 No.
02:54:15.000 Okay.
02:54:16.000 So there was this tugboat that was off the coast of Africa.
02:54:19.000 They were on, you know, whatever they were doing, they were tugging a boat or whatever.
02:54:23.000 And there's 12 people on board, including Harrison O'Keefe.
02:54:26.000 He's a chef.
02:54:28.000 And he's in the bathroom of this tugboat.
02:54:30.000 And at some point in the middle of the night, a wave.
02:54:33.000 There he is.
02:54:34.000 Is that him?
02:54:34.000 I don't think that is.
02:54:35.000 Actually, that looks like Harrison O'Keefe.
02:54:37.000 You can't see that.
02:54:37.000 Nope.
02:54:39.000 Let me see it.
02:54:40.000 Let me see it.
02:54:40.000 Let me tell a story.
02:54:41.000 Let me tell a story.
02:54:41.000 All right.
02:54:42.000 So the boat flips over.
02:54:43.000 The boat flips over.
02:54:45.000 And Harrison is.
02:54:47.000 Oh, I do know this story.
02:54:49.000 And he ends up walking down the upturned hallway and he finds an air pocket inside of the bathroom.
02:54:49.000 I do know this story.
02:54:56.000 And for 60 hours, he sat in total darkness, half submerged in water, sipping a Coca Cola, waiting for the pocket to implode.
02:55:05.000 And then there's the video.
02:55:06.000 There's a video of the recovery divers as they're going in to find bodies.
02:55:11.000 And they're like, oh, yeah, we're going in here to find them.
02:55:13.000 And then a hand reaches down and grabs them.
02:55:15.000 It's like one of the most incredible stories I think I've ever heard.
02:55:17.000 Yeah.
02:55:18.000 But Harrison O'Kean, I think.
02:55:19.000 I wonder what it was like in terms of like true primal fear.
02:55:24.000 You're 100 feet at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean.
02:55:28.000 I've heard some stories that he even described the sound of sea life bumping around in the upturned vessel.
02:55:35.000 So, like the sound of sharks likely eating the bodies of your buddies.
02:55:39.000 And you're thinking at any point the pocket's going to collapse.
02:55:43.000 For 60 hours he waited and he survived.
02:55:46.000 And now he's no longer working on a tugboat, he stays on land.
02:55:49.000 Yeah, I would imagine.
02:55:50.000 Well, dude, thank you very much for being here, man.
02:55:52.000 Dude, it's been awesome.
02:55:53.000 Your show's awesome.
02:55:54.000 You're a really great storyteller.
02:55:56.000 Thank you.
02:55:56.000 And congratulations on all your success.
02:55:58.000 Thank you.
02:55:59.000 Well, Erin, thank you.
02:55:59.000 My pleasure.
02:56:00.000 Thank you.
02:56:00.000 My pleasure.
02:56:00.000 All right.
02:56:01.000 Bye, everybody.
02:56:03.000 Bye.