00:00:40.000And then, based on things I know about the Biden administration, things I heard from the White House, I decided to kind of lay low for a year.
00:00:49.000And then, Representative Burleson had this crazy idea to hire me as a professional staff member for Congress, working for him.
00:01:00.000Turns out, I guess I was like the first guy that ever testified in front of Congress as a whistleblower and then being subsequently hired by Congress.
00:01:07.000I was the first guy to ever do that, which is very interesting and very cool.
00:01:10.000And I do thank Burleson for his leadership on that.
00:01:14.000And so I did that for about a year and a half.
00:01:22.000I'm going to wait until Labor Day, see where things are.
00:01:25.000I worked pretty hard over summer recess in August and decided to wind down some of my activities because I accomplished a lot of my objectives.
00:01:45.000I've been kind of, you know, going full throttle for the last couple years and whatnot.
00:01:49.000And so we're really at a, I think, a poignant moment in U.S. history with what Trump's done and the things you've seen in the media and whatnot.
00:01:56.000And there's a lot of other stuff happening behind the scenes because, you know, a lot of my work has been private, behind the scenes, you know, working for Congress, specifically Representative Burleson.
00:02:11.000That are interested in disclosure of this stuff and pursue you and want to find out information and want you to tell them what's going on.
00:02:21.000And then are there other people that are resisting this?
00:02:24.000Yeah, I think there's a big bifurcation of the non believers and then kind of the UAP caucus, although you see more and more people kind of signing on to the cause.
00:02:32.000Like I did a presser back in June in front of the Capitol with members, and we even had Brigadier General retired Representative Scott Perry there, who is on the House Intelligence Committee.
00:02:44.000And it was good to see other members start showing that they support the cause.
00:02:48.000But it has been challenging behind the scenes.
00:02:51.000And I had many SCIF classified meetings with the members, kind of going over the topological history of this topic and some of the deeper, darker kind of criminal stuff I bumped into and how I worked with DOJ to kind of highlight some of that stuff.
00:04:06.000Yeah, he made, I don't know all the details, but he made a fake continuity of government special access program that nobody was briefed into.
00:04:28.000It's almost like in Afghanistan when I was over there, I'd have guys with briefcases full of $100,000 in cash because you have to pay for things, right?
00:05:51.000It's a lot of stuff I've never talked about because it's just very terrifying.0.99
00:05:54.000And I, you know, I've been through a lot of crazy shits.0.91
00:05:57.000And I ended up bumping into a criminal enterprise run out of a particular agency.0.98
00:06:05.000And it was basically getting money through certain criminal endeavors, the most unspeakable type of criminal endeavors, under the cover of certain national security programs.
00:06:39.000I briefed members in a classified setting, all the details.0.99
00:06:42.000And I'm highlighting that because this is how serious this issue is there's an ecosystem, and there's a lot of good people around these programs in terms of the UAP side.
00:06:56.000They're friends of mine, they're patriotic people doing their duty, but there is like a small little cast system of characters that are part of this larger ecosystem of.
00:07:06.000No holds barred, we're going to do what we want.
00:07:08.000And, you know, we're going to do whatever kind of criminal activity to get washed money for our cutouts.0.57
00:07:13.000Like, so a good example, of course, would be Iran Contra, right, which is very famous, 86.
00:07:18.000And the CIA was engaged in those kind of activities.
00:07:21.000And this has all been exposed all over North and all that to fund the Contras, weapons purchases, procurement, et cetera.
00:07:28.000And a lot of that, you know, seemed to possibly be drug trafficking.
00:07:32.000The government never confirmed that, but you look at Barry Seale and his.
00:07:38.000Statements in the 80s and 90s, and it's likely that that probably occurred.
00:07:43.000Yeah, it was all through Freeway Ricky Ross.
00:08:13.000They used that incorrectly because it's supposed to be three different times you were arrested instead of like three crimes that were attached to one arrest.
00:08:47.000Michael Rupert was the LA narcotics officer that, I believe, was on C SPAN.
00:08:52.000He went on C SPAN during a hearing and he exposed the entire organization selling drugs in South Central Los Angeles because he was involved in it.
00:09:04.000He was involved in like busting people that were doing it, and then they told him he has to leave it alone because it was the CIA.
00:09:21.000It's really fucked up, and there's a lot of details that are.0.98
00:09:25.000I have a lot more questions than answers, and I, you know, I worked with DOJ, and, you know, from what I understand, I got a gold star in a brief to Kash Patel about it last year.0.99
00:09:34.000I wasn't in the briefing, but I, you know, I, I was told I got kudos, but it was very disturbing.
00:09:40.000And so, like, obviously, a lot of these programs are legal in the sense that there's, in terms of UAP stuff, there's, you know, classified executive orders back in the day that covers them, and they're upstanding citizens.
00:09:54.000And we could litigate, like, you know, Congress wasn't necessarily brought into the fold enough from an oversight perspective, et cetera.
00:10:02.000But, you know, the core of the program, you know, does have a legal beginning.0.83
00:10:07.000When you don't have oversight, unfortunately, certain small pockets of people start doing shit that they shouldn't have.0.77
00:10:14.000And unfortunately, I got deeply ensnared in that.
00:10:17.000There was a very small group of people that pushed me over the edge, and I had to do what I got to do to protect myself.
00:10:27.000And I never wanted to be a whistleblower.
00:10:30.000I was a deeply entrenched 15 year Intel officer, military officer in the Air Force.
00:10:37.000Some of the country's most sensitive issues.
00:10:38.000Started going to the White House to brief the National Security Council in my mid 20s on space issues back during the Obama administration.
00:10:45.000In 2019, when I joined the UAP task force and I was tasked to investigate this, I was like, sure, I'll look into it.
00:10:52.000The special access program or black program community has a lot of dysfunction, and maybe some stuff wasn't reported correctly.
00:11:01.000I didn't know really what I was going to find, but if there was a U.S. program, I'd figure it out.
00:11:06.000I'd probably get cleared to it, and we'd be fine.
00:11:10.000And I know why it was protected the way it is and whatnot.
00:11:15.000But unfortunately, about a year and a half, about October 2020, is when kind of my life changed.
00:11:24.000And particular individuals, instead of coming to me, who knew me, by the way, personally, I know them personally, now Dave, you're bumping into something.
00:11:34.000You know, I'm going to defensively brief you.
00:11:38.000Or, hey, I'm going to slide an NDA, sign this, and I'll read you in.
00:11:42.000And my colleagues and I joked about that.0.99
00:11:44.000Like, Or bumping in the shit, eventually somebody's gonna knock on my door in my office and be like, hey, I need to talk to you.0.99
00:11:50.000And unfortunately, that never happens.0.99
00:11:52.000It's really tragic because that would have been an easier way.
00:11:56.000But I immediately got administratively nuked in October 2020, and basically they went after everybody around me.
00:12:07.000My boss at the National Reconnaissance Office, as Major Grush, the Air Force officer in the reserves, got walked out of NRO headquarters in Chantilly, Virginia, under fabricated personal conduct things.
00:12:20.000And they went after my chief of staff who worked for me at NGA when I was 15.
00:12:25.000And coworkers, people they thought were my enablers, right?
00:12:30.000And I thought, okay, I could fight this.
00:12:34.000They're bringing up like my mental health stuff, which we've talked about before Afghanistan, PTSD.
00:12:41.000I was cleared of, you know, no problems, kept my top secret clearance, and I still have my top secret clearance.
00:12:47.000But it got very, very scary in early 2022.
00:12:55.000And I've avoided talking about this for a long time.
00:12:59.000And I've mentioned, In my hearing in 2023, I'm here in fear for my life, et cetera.
00:13:06.000Well, I'm not talking about the criminal stuff I found, stuff that's happened in my personal life and stuff.
00:13:10.000And so back in early 2022, everything's fine.
00:13:17.000Started noticing some suspicious activity near where I live.
00:13:23.000And I didn't think much of it, thought it was kind of strange.
00:13:26.000And I don't want to quite go into all the details, but basically, Later, one particular day, I was sent a message that they can touch me and my wife.
00:14:03.000Based on them, what turns out they were monitoring my classified computer at work, my investigation notes that I would keep encrypted on there.
00:14:16.000I think they were very worried that I figured out a lot of things.
00:14:20.000And I still don't know for sure, though.
00:14:22.000And there's a lot of other things, too.
00:14:25.000I guess I'm kind of jumping around because in early 2021, certain people that were helping me and I was talking to started to experience.
00:14:35.000Havana syndrome symptoms, you know, anomalous health incidents.
00:14:56.000Did you like, you know, bomb some, you know, adversary's building and they're pissed off at you and they hold a grudge?
00:15:03.000And so I noticed that I wasn't going to equate that to the topic.
00:15:07.000And But I was very nervous about that because people I know were starting to experience those symptoms, specifically microwave directed energy, most likely, just based on certain tradecraft they were doing to detect it, which I won't get into the details of that, and then their symptomology, so to speak.
00:15:31.000And in that 2021 timeframe, I was sitting at home, I was getting investigated by three agencies, and I really didn't know what was going on.
00:15:42.000A lot of my colleagues were going to continue on that investigation on my behalf.
00:15:47.000And eventually in late 2021, NGA hired me as a 15 off the street, kind of came back into government full time.
00:15:54.000I was hoping that agency would protect me against the CIA and the NRO and certain elements of the DOD that were going after me because of these couple antagonists that were trying to basically push me over the edge administratively.
00:16:11.000But what I crossed the Rubicon in early 2022 when I was sent a message, and it was the same day I was sent a message, other people got.
00:17:47.000And, you know, they turned to staff and they, you know, they pointed at me and they're like, Oh, by the way, you know, these couple individuals, and they named the individuals.
00:18:26.000Assessment is I was getting so close to exposing it because I was sort of preparing my inspector general's report to the IG that I must have crossed some sort of Rubicon.
00:18:39.000I still would like to know, and I hope these people are brought to justice, and that's my wish and dream.
00:18:46.000Hopefully, the Department of Justice does what's needed.
00:18:49.000There's an investigation ongoing right now?
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00:20:06.000How much of this do you think has to do with actual UAP disclosure, and how much of it has to do with The lack of oversight that allowed people to do illegal activities.
00:20:17.000I think some problem children decided to abuse some standing options to protect, you know, critical infrastructure in the United States, which, you know, for example, that would be like an Air Force flight line, an ICBM silo, other activities.
00:20:37.000And they decided I was some sort of threat.
00:20:42.000And it's so disgusting because I, you know, like I said, I was a field grade officer in the Air Force.
00:20:47.000I was a GS 15 of CIA, Colonel Cleveland civilian, and I'm sitting there in Senate chambers and I'm hearing this.
00:22:39.000So, one of the things that we talked about before so you were scheduled for another podcast a while back, but flights got canceled when we moved it today.
00:22:47.000But you were saying that it's actually fortuitous that it was rescheduled.
00:24:13.000A lot of people who are just release it all, show us Indiana Jones warehouse tour, don't appreciate the care that we're going to have to proceed with because this is not a static ecosystem.
00:24:25.000This isn't just like archaeology where you're digging up stuff.
00:24:29.000You are dealing with third parties, both human, adversarial countries, et cetera.
00:26:21.000I don't necessarily believe in this, but like there has been assessments in the past that, you know, revealing certain things may, you know, trigger a response from a third party.
00:26:30.000Trigger a response from them, from these entities.
00:26:55.000You know, and it's one of those things where I'm trying to walk the line and be as diplomatic as possible and also trying to prepare the populace at the same time because clearly the government hasn't right now.
00:27:13.000And I mean, Trump wants it out for sure.
00:27:14.000His team needs to be astute enough to know what to ask for, you know, massage the deep state and get that information because we just saw.
00:27:24.000Tim Burchett on Benny Johnson's podcast talk about Stephen Miller called him and was like, Hey, I'm getting blocked, like physically blocked from access to a lot of this stuff.
00:27:34.000And, you know, that's very concerning.
00:28:55.000And I think when people look back at this interview, it's going to be very haunting because I think in short order, before Trump leaves office, we're going to be in a new paradigm.
00:29:03.000And I'm normally a very pessimistic, cynical person.
00:29:46.000There's other people in government serious.
00:29:48.000I mean, you even see Aaron Lucas, the PDDI, the Deputy Director of National Intelligence, sign these big NDA waivers.
00:29:54.000It includes any kind of waiver of not even telling the president, sorry, you have to tell us kind of thing.
00:29:59.000And so you're seeing kind of the chessboard being set.
00:30:03.000I know everybody's not happy with the tranches coming out with the low hanging fruit videos and recordings and stuff.
00:30:08.000And Representative Burleson and I, before I left his office recently, Got a 1952 recording that was still classified from Blue Book talking about the seriousness of this issue and all the crazy shit that they're seeing near nuclear sites and test ranges, which is interesting because in that video that's been declassified, it mentions the very sites that in modern day have that same anomalous activity to include stuff in the Southwest.
00:30:35.000I can't say where it's in the ecosystem, in the open source, but the executive branch hasn't acknowledged what specific test and training range they're seeing crazy orbs that they can't explain.
00:30:57.000And I don't know all the details, but clearly Miller has.
00:31:03.000And a lot of it is, I think, and I can't read the mind of the deep state, but as a former deep stater, I would say that there's always been this kind of disdain for political appointees and members of Congress.
00:31:15.000They don't have the reverence on this issue.0.98
00:32:26.000And, you know, all the other things people have problems with in his presidency, Iran, whatever, I think this will wipe those out.
00:32:34.000And this is like really important for his legacy to.
00:32:38.000Initiate the process before the 28th election, then there's like a hot handoff to the next administration.
00:32:44.000And, you know, if Trump's a political animal, he could easily line up a Republican team on the 28th ticket to basically, you know, be his continuity on this, too.
00:33:13.000And then we're going to bring in this shocking thing.
00:33:15.000So there's a schedule, like in terms of like a psychological impact on the populace?
00:33:21.000There was in the past, in terms of certain government think tanks wrote classified assessments for previous presidents on this.
00:33:29.000I don't know what the current plan is.
00:33:31.000I'm just I'm currently literally a private citizen right now.
00:33:34.000But if they're going to do what they did in the past, it is.
00:33:38.000And the slow rollout has its pluses and minuses.
00:33:42.000Like, I would say, due to human factors, risks of adversarial countries getting ahead of us, other whistleblowers, whatever, you probably have to roll this out in at least like 12 months and whatnot.
00:33:53.000But we're in a precarious time if the administration doesn't start because China and Russia could take advantage of this moment now, our weakness.
00:34:03.000You know, China has their famous Belt and Road Initiative.
00:34:05.000China has admitted publicly that they have a UAP task force.
00:34:11.000Behind the scenes, and they actually announced that when the DoD UAP task force was announced.
00:34:17.000You can find a news article from June 2020 in the South China Morning Post where they talk about they're analyzing these encounters, they're using AI, etc.
00:34:24.000Trevor Burrus Do you feel that China has, or do you know if China has these crashed vehicles as well?
00:36:32.000The top layer of it I can talk about, and I've talked about it previously, so it's not anything super new.
00:36:39.000If you look at the Accident Measures Agreement of 1971, which is the short title of this god awfully long title treaty that was signed in September 1971, you'll see Article 3 of the treaty talks about UAP.
00:36:53.000And hey, if you see any unidentified objects around your nuclear or critical comms facilities, Please call us, bro.
00:37:00.000And that was between the USSR and America.
00:37:02.000And then in 2013, the classified annex of that treaty got declassified.
00:37:09.000You can find it online at George Washington University National Security Archives.
00:37:11.000But it gives the nuke flash, like the red line code to say it was like Adam 222, Adam 333, and that's all declassified.0.95
00:37:20.000And then you would send that to the Kremlin, like, hey, we see fucking weird shit around Placesk.0.79
00:37:26.000It's not us, it's not a false flag, and vice versa.0.98
00:37:31.000And so there was a red line comms for UAP activity between Russia and the US.
00:37:36.000And of course, Russia and the US during the Cold War had a mutual notification treaty for a space launch vehicle and ICBM launches, et cetera.
00:37:44.000Weirdly enough, we've never had that with China.
00:37:47.000Even to this day, we don't have a mutual notification.0.99
00:37:51.000We don't even have a mutual notification.
00:37:52.000If they're going to do like a submarine launched ballistic missile test off their coast, they're not obligated by treaty to tell us.
00:38:02.000So, and sometimes they don't with certain national security activities.0.78
00:38:05.000And so, Northern Command, NORAD, Missile Warning Center, other places, NSA DefSmack in Laurel, Maryland have to be on their A game to make sure it was like a test because the Chinese aren't obligated to tell us.0.94
00:38:21.000And I, a crazy story in that regard the Indians did something like that to us.0.95
00:38:28.000I was on duty in the NRO Operations Center.1.00
00:38:31.000And by the way, I got this clear through security.
00:39:08.000That's the mission of the National Reconnaissance Office.
00:39:11.000Of the National Reconnaissance Office.
00:39:13.000And I was the backup director of intelligence as a reservist at the operations center where I was, you know, also handling the PDB for the director.
00:39:20.000And I, you know, led the director's briefing team.
00:39:23.000And, you know, I'm like going to the orbital analysts on the watch floor with all the crazy screens, like, calculate the debris field, you know, let me know if we have to maneuver something and blah, blah, blah.
00:39:33.000And I'm like running up to the director's office in my uniform, you know, out of breath.0.97
00:40:05.000Supposedly, this is like one of the best legends that there's a craft that's so large they couldn't move it, so they had to make a building around it, and it's supposedly in Korea.
00:41:20.000And I watched X Files and Star Trek Next Gen. And of course, I'm like, you know, I'm a precocious teen reading like a brief history time and, you know, Isaac Asimov, and I'm learning about the Drake equation.
00:41:31.000I'm like, there's probably life, but who knows?
00:41:42.000I'm like, I go onto a certain database.
00:41:44.000I'm like typing in Area 51, you know, UFO.
00:41:47.000Like everybody's done that who's gone through Intel school, whether they admit it or not.
00:41:51.000And of course, I didn't see anything or anything.
00:41:53.000The only thing I bumped into early in my career in like 2009.
00:41:58.000I remember reading the OSAP, the Defense Intelligence Reference Documents, the DIRDs.
00:42:04.000And at the time, I had no idea what they were doing.
00:42:06.000Turns out it was obviously UAP related, but I was reading, why is the DIA looking into magnetohydrodynamic propulsion and cloaking and all this other stuff?
00:42:17.000And of course, I find out later what it was.
00:42:20.000But I had absolutely no personal experience and even professionally for most of my career.
00:42:38.000And of course, I find out and I learn about how they hid all this infrastructure and they used a lot of conventional national security intelligence collection architecture to basically facilitate this crash retrieval program, which makes sense because they're not going to reinvent the wheel and totally have a separate infrastructure to use to figure out if stuff crashed, activity, et cetera.
00:43:02.000And, you know, early, I would say about 10 years into my career, I remember some imagery analysts saying, Hey, Dave, you know, like they told us to airbrush some stuff out of photos and stuff, and it was round.
00:43:44.000And ultimately, I was never recruited, and I kind of just like filed that in the back of my brain for years.
00:43:49.000But like I've said before, it wasn't until like spring of 2017 I was at the CIA briefing the deputy director staff on a bunch of DOD classified programs, and the chief of a very sensitive office at the agency pulled me aside and was like, Dave, what?
00:44:15.000I briefed almost every DoD program at the time, by the way, and hundreds of programs in the intelligence community because I was in a position of very high trust.
00:44:22.000I'm very patriotic and I'm very humbled that I was in a position like that in my 30s.
00:44:27.000I didn't think anything of it until this subject got more popularized, people in public, Tom DeLong, TTSA, and all that.
00:44:38.000I was professionally interested, but not really working on it in 2018.
00:44:42.000And then early in 19 is when I got brought on as the NRO rep to the then Navy task force, which became the DOD's UAP task force.
00:44:54.000And so I've always been curious, but I never saw evidence and I never had any personal experience with the phenomenon that kind of colors my judgment on this, I guess.
00:45:05.000So I'm sure you're aware of Hal put off when he was tasked by the Bush administration along with a bunch of other.
00:45:11.000Thinkers to try to come up with pros and cons for disclosure.
00:45:15.000Yeah, I knew some other people in that meeting and I verified that meeting took place.
00:45:19.000And even Arrow admitted in their Volume 1 report, which was horrible.
00:45:38.000And it's like, but why was it hypothetical?
00:45:42.000If it's not real, nobody explains that.
00:45:45.000And obviously, the story is Steve Hadley, who was the national security advisor, sponsored it.
00:45:51.000I believe Hadley denies it, but who knows if Steve would tell the truth on that just because of the sensitivities.
00:45:58.000And so, for people that don't know what happened, supposedly they brought in a bunch of different thought leaders and they gave them a pro and a con side.
00:46:07.000Like what would be negatively affected by disclosure, what would be positively affected by disclosure, and attach a numerical value to each.
00:46:29.000And then the main decision, if I remember correctly, was the federal contracts fraud.
00:46:34.000Well, that could be debated in the Supreme Court, but they realized a lot of.
00:46:41.000So this is another issue of disclosure.
00:46:42.000Besides the ontological shock and people can't handle it and like misappropriation of funds.
00:46:47.000Yeah, and misappropriation of funds and all that.
00:46:49.000It's, oh, so these set of contractors got sole source contracts and exclusive access to this for internal research and development, where they figure out something and then sell it back to the government, et cetera, for all these decades.
00:47:02.000Well, what about my mid level small business and my contractor and blah, blah, blah?
00:47:07.000And so you're going to, they were afraid that you would see legal challenges going to the Supreme Court in violation of what they call the DFARs, right?
00:47:14.000The Defense Federal Acquisition Regulations.0.86
00:47:16.000And the government would be liable for who fucking knows?
00:47:21.000Billions of dollars worth of monies that they spent on this to these contractor partners that got in back in the day and, like, well, we're not exposing any more people, we're locking it down.0.62
00:47:33.000And what they call a JNA justification and approval for a sole source contract this is a reason national security, like, we can't expose any more people to this.
00:47:41.000And of course, that also causes a brain drain and groupthink and actually hurts the defense industrial base.0.55
00:47:47.000But that was the main reason it wasn't, oh, you know, upcoming millennials that are turning 18 can't handle it.
00:48:50.000So they don't have to worry about liability.
00:48:53.000So this is one of the things that came up in that film, Age of Disclosure, is that you're going to have to make some sort of an amnesty program.
00:49:33.000But like, I was pushed over the edge.1.00
00:49:35.000To do that, you know, I digress, but like, besides like blue collar, really fucked up criminal shits, which, you know, once again, there is a judicial justice process in America.0.98
00:49:48.000You know, we're not going to do street justice here.0.99
00:49:50.000We will, you know, take care of that professionally.
00:49:54.000Like, I took care of the other criminal stuff I found out professionally.
00:49:57.000I'm like, look, I'm, you know, and when I was doing that, I mean, I was meeting people body armor armed with colleagues of mine that were, you know, rolling heavy too.
00:50:06.000And like, it was a very serious process.
00:50:10.000But yeah, I believe in amnesty, but I think we need to do it like a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, which was in post apartheid South Africa in the 90s, where you had some white farmer come in and say, Yeah, I murdered a bunch of black people or whatever.0.59
00:50:24.000And it's like, OK, thank you for telling us that.0.77
00:51:23.000In some way, and that could be like you're seeing the other side of some sort of wormhole and it's some other intelligence shooting this, like I'll call it like plasmoidic probe into our existence.
00:51:33.000I mean, this is, of course, a theoretical framework.
00:51:36.000And once again, I don't have a PhD in astrophysics.
00:51:37.000But it's theoretical that there is a life form that is a plasma based life form.
00:51:42.000And there's already papers on the open internet about this.
00:51:45.000A couple years ago, what's the title of the The paper, they wrote about this possibility.
00:51:51.000So, this is an academic assessment of a possibility of the orbs.
00:51:57.000Now, could the orbs actually be physical craft, but they have a sheath of plasma around it?
00:52:02.000Interestingly enough, OSAP did a defense intelligence reference document on magnetohydrodynamic propulsion, which, if you remember the movie The Hunt for Red October, that's the caterpillar drive on the Russian submarine back in the day.
00:52:18.000And of course, With MHD, you can also do it.
00:52:23.000You have to use a conductive fluid, either salt, seawater that has salt in it, or you could do it in the air, but you have to create a plasma.
00:52:32.000And you steer the plasma, it's called the Lorentz force.
00:52:35.000It's basically you have a perpendicular magnetic field, a large amount of electricity, and you can basically, through the Lorentz force, which is like ionic propulsion, sort of, control it in the atmosphere as well.
00:52:47.000And you can read papers on that and IEEEE and other stuff like that.
00:52:52.000And so, one of the byproducts of an air breathing MHD system is plasma around it.
00:52:59.000So, depending on the size of the orb, it is conceivable that there's a physical craft behind it as well, just as an artifact of the propulsion system.
00:53:55.000And I'm not the expert in, I would say, the consciousness theory.
00:53:59.000I like the Penrose Hamarov ORC OR theory, which is the microtubules, the room temperature.
00:54:05.000So, microtubules are in neurons of the brain, and you have this like room temperature quantum system that can collapse the wave function without an observer.
00:54:13.000And that's what Roger Penrose and Stuart Hamarov, and I've talked to Hamarov, crazy smart guy.
00:57:28.000I'm happy to parse that with American people in public and kind of explain my opinion on things as gaps in information for myself is filled in because I'm not omnipotent.
00:57:40.000I didn't have full access and I only know what I know.0.97
00:57:43.000And that's why I've treated this with such reverence because even me going public, I'm like, fuck, I don't know what this is going to trigger.
00:57:50.000Besides my own personal safety, which clearly I was under duress and I had to even resign my Air Force commission, didn't even fully retire.0.76
00:59:29.000And do know when I get that kind of information, I'm like, tell me what it is, what happened, and I put it out for collection, so to speak, and then I confirm it independently.
00:59:40.000Because I was very allergic to any kind of deception, right?
00:59:45.000In the advent of AI, Sora AI, you can create a very realistic.
00:59:49.000And so I was very anal retentive when I was given documents, audiovisual, et cetera.
00:59:55.000And I sat on that stuff for like years until I felt comfortable with that not being some sort of limited hangout or disruption activity.
01:00:30.000And it's interesting, and I said this in another interview that's not out yet, but, and God willing, this is my last interview for a while, hopefully in a pre disclosure environment.
01:00:40.000And General McCaslin, when he was talking to DeLong, and this is public record, Tom's talked about it.
01:00:47.000On, I think, your show and other interviews, where he always told Tom, Think of the Greek gods.
01:00:54.000And now I kind of understand what he meant.
01:00:56.000But General McCaslin, who disappeared within a week of Trump giving the declassification order on UAP in February 2026, there's a lot of reasons why McCaslin's disappearance disappeared.
01:01:42.000He went to REI the day before to get like a medical kit and other supplies.
01:01:47.000And, I mean, obviously his wife's discussion about him, the body cam footage is public.
01:01:54.000And, you know, he had, Some mental health issues, nothing major, and some aging type issues, but she didn't think he was going to kill himself or whatever.
01:02:07.000And I've had friends unfortunately pass away through suicide in the military, but it's very bizarre.
01:02:13.000And it's when within a week of Trump that coming out.
01:02:17.000And just say I know a lot about General McCaslin's.
01:02:20.000Well, there's quite a few scientists that were connected to UAP disclosure or UAP potential back engineering projects or mysterious projects.
01:03:55.000So there's a lot of audiovisual stuff.
01:03:57.000The problem with the current climate, you're going to have to wheel out the physical evidence too, because the trust in government is so low right now.0.94
01:04:05.000You could show a video, but people are going to be like, oh, well, that's just the U.S. government fucking with us.
01:04:13.000A wheel out literally, like, you know, put it in the Uvar Hazy Center, the Masonian, and then give the biological samples to Eric Weinstein, who I know he wants it.
01:05:43.000So, was that the most compelling thing you saw?
01:05:47.000Yes, because it couples with both the craft and the alleged occupants.
01:05:53.000And there was some other stuff in that area that I got to be careful talking about because it's so specific that it'll easily ID the Patriot that helped me on that.
01:06:05.000And once again, I want the public to see all this stuff.
01:07:03.000Well, like I said, I was very careful with that and confirmed it through other sources and methods to make sure it wasn't some sort of hangout from some government element trying to sway me one way or the other.
01:07:15.000So you independently verified that there was an event?
01:07:59.000There's more people are leaning in that direction when they start looking at some of the stuff that's underneath the pyramids and some of the weird structures that they're finding all over the earth.
01:08:31.000Because for them to develop naturally, say off planet, say it's extraterrestrial, that it looks almost dead ringer like us, that doesn't make any sense to me.
01:08:42.000Well, does it make sense if we're engineered?
01:09:24.000But the idea that we were visited by what's essentially almost God like in their powers and abilities some creature from somewhere else or some being, some super hyper intelligent being from somewhere else, and they manipulated us that bothers us.
01:11:32.000Because it's something that she could handle.
01:11:34.000And that's what, it's funny you say that.
01:11:36.000That's what, if they're bioengineered, then that makes sense because of that ease of contact, ease of communication, also less ontologically shocking.
01:11:46.000And I think as this rolls out, I think the American people need to think about, like, okay, well, if, you know, I'm presented with this reality, how would I react?
01:11:54.000You know, I just think of them personally as like, it's like my West Virginian cousins, you know, it's like a different part of the family, you know, but I'm cool with them.
01:12:02.000And that's a I'll chill with them, you know, whatever.
01:12:45.000There shouldn't be a group of unelected bureaucrats and defense contractors that have access to this stuff, and the general public doesn't.
01:12:54.000So they have a completely different map of the world than we do.
01:12:58.000I know, and I just think about the unfortunate lies and how society has progressed over the last several decades and where we could have been if this was handled back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.
01:13:24.000Like, I was a major in the Air Force and, you know, mid level senior civilian in the IC.
01:13:31.000But unfortunately, I got stuck with this and it wouldn't have happened unless the small crew, you know, honestly pushed me over the edge and, you know, I, I, Was an unbelievable duress, and I ended up having to go public.
01:13:44.000So, tell me more about these reptilians that your friend encountered.
01:15:36.000Once again, I'm sure there's other stuff I don't know about.
01:15:39.000I'm sure there's other variants of them too that look more towards like the classic, what is it in ufology, like Nordic or, you know, Tall Whites that are probably even taller.
01:15:51.000If some of those experiencer stories are true, which, once again, as long as that source is credible, that might be a thing.
01:15:59.000So I think we need to be prepared to kind of that being a thing.
01:16:18.000And once again, like, we're doing like, and of course, it's not always the tic tac, once again, kind of like what I said, but like that tends to be them.
01:16:26.000From what I understand, obviously, hopefully I'm not wrong, but I'm, you know, pretty good sourcing on that.
01:16:33.000When you see like malevolent behavior, right?
01:16:36.000It's like, well, that's a humanistic lens.
01:17:40.000I'm like, I cannot fucking believe.0.99
01:17:42.000Seven of a tall, scary, scaly gorilla.0.97
01:17:45.000I know, and I mean, it sounds schizo, and it's like coming from somebody like me, you know, who you know is a credible person and has been in government.1.00
01:17:52.000It's like, I'm gonna be that guy, I'm gonna be that guy, and then like down the road, people will review Joe Rogan, and he's like, That motherfucker, we thought he was crazy, but yeah, you know, it's true.0.94
01:18:03.000Well, of course, if there are things from somewhere else, you're gonna sound crazy describing any of it because it's so outside my experience because I never had some kind of woo thing growing up or.0.97
01:18:14.000Some sort of interaction with the phenomenon.
01:18:16.000So it feels so outside my personal comfort level and experience because I'm relying on the personal experience of others, you know, audiovisual stuff.
01:18:27.000And it still feels like I'm watching a movie.
01:20:02.000Now, unfortunately, you know, my friend Matt, who knows what happened to him, but, you know, tragically he died, you know, mysteriously.0.99
01:20:10.000So, now these reptilians, what was their craft like?
01:20:15.000Oh, like I said, the Tic Tac stuff.0.73
01:20:17.000And was their craft crashed into the ground, like broken up?
01:22:34.000Pre Sputnik, too, that was the important thing.
01:22:35.000Yes, pre Sputnik, very important because there was no satellites at the time.
01:22:38.000This was images that they took of the sky that showed things that were reflective that seemed to be metallic, allegedly.
01:22:44.000And if I remember her paper correctly with her co authors, it also there were cluster concentrations over sensitive nuclear facilities and nuclear testing.
01:22:53.000Chronological temporal correlation as well.
01:23:00.000So, data shows unidentified lights in archival astronomy images were 68% more likely to be imaged 24 hours after a nuclear weapons test.
01:23:10.000So, this is chronologically like we have these nuclear weapons tests, including these high altitude detonations like Operation Starfish Prime.
01:25:01.000So now they know from ground penetrating radar that these cavities in the ground, these symmetrical rooms exist.
01:25:09.000They know where they are and they know why they're flooded.
01:25:13.000So they're flooded because during the 1960s they built a dam to divert water for agriculture.
01:25:19.000And when they did, they changed the water table and it flooded this labyrinth area.
01:25:23.000And when they used this ground penetrating radar and I think it's radio tomography and a bunch of the different Ways of one of the things they found was a 40 meter long metallic object that's in some sort of is it in an atrium?
01:25:42.000Like it's in some sort of a large room.
01:25:45.000I've heard of I've seen a video about this.
01:25:48.000You're recalling some stuff I've seen just casually online.
01:25:51.000Like just imagine if that's what that is.
01:27:21.000So, show him some of the artistic recreations of what it looked like underneath the ground.
01:27:29.000So, this is all, you know, like I said, Herodotus wrote about this thousands of years ago, but now it's documented that these chambers and these pathways actually exist.
01:27:38.000And there had been people that had studied at least the upper surface levels of it as recently as like the 1800s.
01:28:05.000Because if this, along with Filippo Biondi's work, where it shows using that same satellite radio tomography, that there's some sort of structure underneath the pyramids that goes over a kilometer into the ground.0.97
01:28:21.000Is there easy access, or is it just like a government denial?
01:28:24.000The Antiquities Bureau, whatever they call it, needs blocking it?
01:28:27.000I think there's been some progress in terms of allowing exploration.
01:28:34.000I don't know the extent of it, but I know that a lot of people are very hopeful that that progress is going to be achieved.
01:29:57.000The structures themselves are so immense and so complex, and the methods of construction are completely unknown.
01:30:04.000And just the symmetry and the precision of the engineering is beyond comprehension for people that lived at the very most recent it could be is 4,500 years ago.
01:30:18.000And a lot of these people think it's far older than that.
01:30:21.000And we're finding that I've been watching some of Graham Hancock's stuff.
01:30:24.000You just look at these megalithic architecture that's older than you think.
01:30:28.000Turkey and the United States, as well as in Ohio and Mississippi.
01:31:49.000Like, if you go to church and you read about the Watchers.
01:31:52.000Well, there's actually a lot of interesting stuff in the Bible.
01:31:54.000Like, obviously, and that's another thing, like, of course, with, you know, I'm Catholic by growing up, CCD, Confirmation, did the whole thing as a kid.
01:32:02.000And you see a lot of, Outspoken exorcists and other people right now saying, well, all this alien stuff is just diabolic deception and demons and all that kind of stuff.0.74
01:32:40.000We cohabitated with bacteria and viruses until the invention of the microscope, whatever that was, 1800s or whatnot.
01:32:46.000But if you go into Leviticus and Deuteronomy, you will notice these like cleansing, ritualistic stuff, also like, hey, you can't have your toilet and your living area and all that.
01:32:58.000And if you look in those books of the Bible, wait, that's like modern sanitization guidance.
01:33:03.000So it's funny that like the Bible has encoded within it, Kind of like best practices before man would even understand what viruses and bacteria are.
01:33:14.000And I just find that that's very interesting based on when it was written.
01:33:17.000And it does show that there was some sort of higher intelligence kind of influencing the authorship.
01:33:22.000Either that or the civilization that was writing the Bible was a recreation of civilization that had been destroyed in a cataclysm.
01:33:31.000I mean, I think that, especially when you look at the pyramids and you look at some of these other ancient structures like Lebanon, Baalbek, they.
01:33:40.000They don't make sense, and it seems to me that there was probably something super sophisticated a long time ago and it got wiped out.
01:33:46.000And then what we get from these ancient texts is probably oral tradition passed on through hundreds, if not thousands of years, and then people writing things down and people remembering these stories.
01:34:00.000I think one of the weirdest books of the Bible is the book of Ezekiel.
01:34:08.000Because there's that great cloud with brightness around it and fire flashing forth continually, and in the midst of the fire, as it were, gleaming metal.
01:34:18.000And from the midst of the craft came the likeness of four living creatures.
01:34:43.000It sounds like a ship comes down from the sky with immense power, frightens everyone, freaks everyone out, and these entities are inside the craft.
01:34:52.000And I think a lot of it, once again, they're interpreting it based on their vernacular at the time, their understanding.
01:34:58.000And I remember I was at, two years ago, I was at Capitol Reef National Park in Utah, and there's petroglyphs there, and some of them kind of look like aliens.
01:35:14.000But I feel like a lot of the stuff in ancient tradition is literally what they saw.
01:35:19.000It's not necessarily allegory or fable.
01:35:21.000Some of it may be for teaching lessons, but I have a feeling a lot of it was actually literal.
01:35:26.000I have a feeling a lot of it was literal as well because most people, first of all, couldn't read and couldn't write.
01:35:35.000And so writing fiction seems like a fruitless pursuit.
01:35:39.000It seems like writing history so that you can remember what happened, at least a version of it that's palatable to you.
01:35:45.000Like ancient Sumer and the Anunnaki and all that.0.98
01:35:48.000And it's like, well, why did they make up just for fun?0.62
01:35:50.000Right now, they all had kooky stories about being visited.
01:35:54.000And, you know, when you're telling me about these things that look like Greek gods.
01:35:59.000That's how I described it, and that's how clearly what General McCaslin was hinting to Tom DeLong.
01:36:05.000And once again, I got Trevor Burrus Well, doesn't it make sense that the Greek gods did exist?
01:36:10.000Not that they did exist literally, but that when they talked about the Greek gods, they talked about them in this manner, looking like that.
01:36:18.000And then you actually find a craft with these things that look like that.
01:36:22.000Trevor Burrus Which is like the conquistadors were treated like that in the 1500s, right?
01:36:37.000I mean, I think that is probably the most uncomfortable stuff for me to talk about, but it's also something that the public needs to wrap their mind around and understand that this is a thing and kind of start processing that kind of reality.
01:36:50.000Well, and then as much as it's coming from me, but I mean, the federal government, you know, if Trump really is serious and Stephen Miller, you know, does his thing with this, I think all this will come out in a hopefully responsible way.
01:37:05.000They have a schedule that's based on the concept that people need to have this information trickle slowly so that they can adjust.
01:37:13.000There were suggestions in the past if the president did something.
01:37:18.000I am not aware at this point what the plan is in that regard right now, though.
01:37:24.000But there is some sort of an idea that this should be trickled out.
01:37:30.000That this shouldn't be like, boom, here it is, let's lay it out.
01:37:34.000If the president truly wants it out, and obviously Bob Bigelow met with the president as well.
01:37:38.000February 26th, before he made an announcement.
01:37:40.000I mean, he told the president, hey, you need to admit that there's NHI and we've recovered stuff and we're looking at it in a semi formal announcement to start anesthetizing the public.
01:37:51.000And you can find that interview online that Bob did with, I think it was with George Knapp on a podcast.
01:37:57.000So it's not just myself advocating for this.
01:38:03.000And he did us a solid job by pushing the president to help make that decision.
01:38:08.000I mean, there's a lot of things that went on behind the scenes.
01:38:11.000You know, I work in mysterious ways and I won't divulge certain relationships and certain rooms I've been in, but it took a village.
01:38:19.000And, you know, I'm proud that, you know, the time I spent with Representative Burleson was very fruitful.
01:38:25.000We did a lot of stuff behind the scenes.
01:38:26.000And I think Burleson's going to go down as a very courageous man.
01:38:29.000And it's, and I say that not just because he was my boss, I mean, he was probably the most forward leaning member of Congress on this issue.
01:38:36.000I mean, Representative Luna did a great job, you know, Timbershett and others, but, you know, he actively was sending letters out.
01:38:45.000That's how we got that Lincoln Labs formally classified 1952 film out in the last tranche that just came out.
01:38:51.000And also, we've sent interrogatories, which are legal questions that require an affidavit format response to different organizations.
01:39:02.000And it's public that we sent one this summer to the MITRE Corporation, which is a federally funded research and development center headquartered in Northern Virginia.
01:39:11.000So, they clearly have a duty to respond.
01:39:15.000Their corporate council is working on it.
01:39:18.000And obviously, I left, but hopefully Burleson's team is able to push for a response in conjunction with whatever Stephen Miller and the Pursuit team is working on, too, because they're probably going to want to coordinate all that.
01:39:32.000So, this guy that you communicated with that said he encountered living reptilians and dead greys, did they have communication with these reptilians?
01:39:54.000There is some sort of consciousness communication, call it telepathy.
01:39:59.000Hell if I know how it works, but it is a thing.
01:40:02.000And I know sober, high ranking people I've served a decade and a half with in the government that were on these retrievals that on occasion that would happen, or they would have like a feeling come over them.
01:40:14.000It's almost like I wonder, is this like my own?
01:40:18.000Hypothesis, and I would laugh if this is true, but sometimes it's like a positive feeling, like of comfort.
01:40:25.000I wonder if that's almost like a countermeasure on the craft to prevent certain aggression or whatever.
01:40:32.000It's almost like how Air Force jets have countermeasures on them flare, chaff, you know, electronic countermeasures as well, like jammers.
01:40:40.000And I wonder if some of that is psychotronic technology.
01:41:56.000Yeah, there's been accounts out there in the public vernacular on that potentially, but unfortunately, that's at the limit of my personal knowledge that I feel confident saying something publicly about.
01:42:10.000What other kinds of beings have been reported?
01:42:16.000So, for the gray types, there are multiple sizes.
01:43:19.000And I postulate that artificial superintelligence, if it's allowed to have certain data and it's able to collect data, I mean, to include genomic data, almost like Larry Ellison's doing the Stargate AI medical thing right now with the Trump administration.
01:43:34.000I bet artificial superintelligence could disclose before the federal government if we're not careful.
01:43:40.000And that's why I feel like time's of the essence.
01:43:42.000I think AI could possibly find evidence that we're not alone and curate that.
01:43:48.000Like it's been solving other crazy mathematical problems lately.
01:43:53.000And that's another danger besides our adversary accelerating this by taking the upper hand on this to look like a more messianic truth bearer.
01:44:03.000You could have big tech and AI invertently discovering U.S. classified technology that we figured out, which is a national security issue near and dear to my heart, but also their presence just through different data sets.
01:44:19.000That, how would AI have access to definitive proof unless it hacked into every government resource?
01:44:24.000Well, medical records, optical sensing systems, you know, that kind of stuff.
01:44:29.000Certainly, I'm not aware of some sort of imminent thing, but I think there is a possibility that artificial superintelligence, if it, you know, comes online in the next months to years, could figure it all out because they might see gaps in the historical record that don't make any sense.
01:44:43.000They detect denial and deception operations.
01:44:45.000They're like, wait a minute, that story about that event in history is not right.
01:46:11.000That's another open ended thing that some of the Peruvian ones seem like total horseshit, and other ones are like, What the hell is that?1.00
01:46:18.000And how is it so old if it's that good of a recreation?
01:46:22.000If it's art, it's some of the greatest art I've ever seen because they have the bones and the tendons are correct.
01:46:28.000Yeah, but then the bones of the foot are incorrect, and some people think that it was actually put together and made, but then for what purpose?
01:47:03.000But one of the weird things is that people that understand anatomy have looked at the bones of the foot and say, no, this is like, this is not how it would work.
01:47:28.000They just need genetic testing, and I believe that's going on.0.97
01:47:32.000Yeah, I believe that's going on too, but I don't know who to fucking believe.0.73
01:47:36.000The other thing that's really weird about Peru is not only do they have these things, these weird looking sort of mummy creatures that look like something non human, but they also have this.0.61
01:47:48.000Ancient artwork tradition of these three fingered, three toed creatures that, like, these are like tapestries and paintings that are really fucking old that have these things in them.
01:50:58.000Yeah, there's this weird uh group of people in Africa that have this very specific trait where they do not have uh five toes uh on each foot, instead, they have these long, strange appendages that almost look like like.0.93
01:51:15.000Four or five toes smashed together, but much longer.
01:53:13.000Big giant reptiles around the world.1.00
01:53:15.000Which I thought was so funny because, you know, that's like the schizo thing you hear out in public, you know, the big reptiles, lizards.1.00
01:53:26.000But once again, I personally have not seen any of that.
01:53:29.000That is one of the weirder theories of ancient civilizations as well.
01:53:34.000That during the time of the dinosaurs, like, let's imagine that human beings weren't the first intelligent creature.
01:53:41.000Let's imagine that there was an intelligent reptile and that this intelligent reptile had formulated a very complex society 100 million years ago.
01:54:02.000And if these things had some sort of sophisticated disposal of bodies, if they had burning rituals or if they never let their bodies just lay around and become fossils, we would never find them.
01:55:40.000If you listen to the 1952 recording that Representative Burleson got declassified from MIT Lincoln Labs, you'll hear Edward Rupelt, who eventually defected from Blue Book because he realized it was a cover up in the 50s.
01:55:56.000But he was talking to the Beacon Hill study team at Lincoln Labs saying, Hey, the Air Force has ruled out mass hysteria.0.97
01:56:04.000We're seeing shit during nuclear sites tests.0.99
01:56:08.000Oh, by the way, in the White Sands.0.99
01:56:10.000Holloman Air Force Base area, we caught multiple objects traveling an estimated 3,500 miles an hour.0.86
01:56:17.000We can't rule out maybe some sort of meteor shower, but we're seeing a lot of weird shit moving at velocities that we don't know.
01:56:24.000And in the recording, it talks about like we've rolled out, you know, foreign programs, et cetera.0.94
01:56:28.000And this is an internal recorded briefing between Lincoln Lab scientists and the Air Force that just got released in the recent tranche.
01:56:43.000And so the thought experiment or the kind of path I lead people is like, okay, are UAP real?
01:56:48.000Well, of course, people have seen it, will be more inclined to saying yes.
01:56:52.000But if you look at the whole tapestry of information to include orbs that are accosting the federal government as we speak, and there's a whole task force looking at it right now between ODI and I and Department of War, et cetera.
01:57:32.000We're doing for material exploitation and acquisition.0.98
01:57:35.000We're going to go get some of this shit when we get a chance when, you know, there's a mission failure or one crashes or lands for whatever other reason.0.97
01:57:42.000So that's once you accept that, it's like a whole new paradigm in your mind.1.00
01:57:59.000And that's, I think, the place where the public has a harder cognitive leap, where it's just so hard to conceptualize something you don't see day to day that's a living thing.0.99
01:58:11.000It's like even more wild than finding some new animal in the Congo or some deep sea creature in the bottom of the ocean.
01:58:19.000Like, we don't even know what's, you know, 70% of the ocean or something like that hasn't even been mapped.
01:58:42.000Are they organic life from another planet?
01:58:44.000Like, how would it evolve in such a similar way?
01:58:46.000Where are these like von Neumann probes that are sent with occupants that are bioengineered because they know on this M class planet, there's these Homo sapiens sapient creatures.
01:58:55.000They look like this, this, and that, and they tweak a couple things, et cetera.
01:58:59.000So it's, I don't know all the answers to that, and I wish I did because I'm sure the public has a big desire to know that.
01:59:05.000And I think eventually, through the president's courageous actions, it'll come out.
01:59:11.000So the intent of Project Blue Book was clearly to obfuscate.
01:59:16.000And you don't have to take my word for it.
01:59:19.000I talk about a formally classified Australian Joint Intelligence Organization document that was classified secret in 1971, written by a gentleman called Harry Turner, who is the nuclear branch chief for the JIO, which is the.
01:59:34.000Australian equivalent of the Defense Intelligence Agency, DIA.
01:59:38.000And it's like page eight or seven through 18 of the document, which is in the Australian National Archives.
02:00:05.000Plan of ridicule and disinformation, unfortunately, after the Robertson panel in 1953 to dissuade the public from looking in on it because America was afraid of that being used as a false flag by the Soviets and there was other kind of national security objectives.
02:00:24.000And that was from the Australian government's perspective what the cover up was in 1971, looking back from late 40s to present at the time.
02:00:37.000So, of course, this is outside looking in, but he was very well informed and he traveled to the U.S. and talked to the CIA a lot.
02:00:44.000And so he stitched together the puzzle in his mind of what he thought was going on.
02:00:49.000Well, it's also the statements of J. Allen Hynek, who left Project Blue Book and talked openly about his role during Project Blue Book was to dismiss any and all sightings as being either some sort of a natural occurrence like ball lightning or meteor showers or planet Venus or.
02:01:10.000You know, just a misunderstanding, and that he believed after all of his years in Project Blue Book that there was a real phenomenon.
02:01:25.000There's a lot of, you know, James McDonald, Dr. James McDonald, and a lot of those OGs in this subject area that I only recently learned about because I haven't been following this until, you know, relatively recently realized it was real.
02:01:37.000And what do you know about the Richard Nixon Jackie Gleason story?
02:01:41.000I don't know if that happened, but based on Nixon's personality and he was knowledgeable on this topic, that might have happened.
02:01:51.000I don't know, but I could see Nixon doing that.
02:03:43.000So prior to the 2016 election, Hillary talked publicly, and this is public record, that if elected, she would release the UFO files.
02:03:51.000So what happened was John Podesta greenlit a climatization activity, a popularization activity, and that's why Tom DeLong got his advisors.
02:04:05.000That's why General McCaslin talked to him.
02:04:07.000It wasn't because General McCaslin, Robert Weiss at Lockheed, other people, that's all in WikiLeaks.
02:04:12.000Just wanted to talk to Tom because he was a rock star and was infatuated by his celebrity and wanted to help on a sci fi movie.
02:04:18.000It was because they were given top cover to see Tom as a public figure who had the touch of the youth.
02:04:26.000Rightly or wrongly, I mean, once again, there was an attempt, and I'm not going to judge them bad or good, but they were trying to prep the battle space prior to 2016.
02:04:38.000Obviously, Hillary didn't win, Trump won, and clearly that activity pivoted, and you saw kind of the collapse of.
02:04:47.000The original TTSA efforts, in my opinion.
02:05:19.000Don't you think that that's also just a political ploy to get people to want to vote for you?
02:05:23.000Oh, certainly there's politics in that.
02:05:25.000And obviously, even in this current situation, the president can use this for political ends, ways, and means, whether making some threshold announcement for the upcoming midterms or by the 2028 election cycle.
02:05:39.000I mean, it could be used in political ways, too.
02:05:41.000But it is a real topic, and the government has real information on it, though.
02:08:09.000And even though I've, I know what I know, I'm confident what I know, but just understanding this like new normal that is eventually going to come out, it's just, it still hurts my head, honestly.
02:09:45.000While you're saying it, it sounds like this is one of the reasons why people don't like to talk about it because it makes you look like a fool.0.99
02:09:54.000I had access to the most sensitive stuff.
02:09:56.000I was working on covert action activities, and then all of a sudden, I'm inundated with this ecosystem, and I'm having to explain this to members of Congress, my classified testimony.0.99
02:10:08.000And it's just like, I sound like a fucking crazy person.
02:10:13.000But once again, it's true, and I know who I talked to, I know what I saw, and I clearly have some inkling of what's going on behind the scenes.0.98
02:11:15.000And it's like, think about those military personnel.0.92
02:11:18.000Like, you saw the emotion in their face talking about, like, I can't believe I'm talking about a gray pushing some sort of probe in me.0.82
02:11:25.000And it's like, they're even more uncomfortable than myself because they are claiming that they experienced that.0.95
02:11:32.000And you look at Robert Hastings' book.
02:11:34.000UFOs and nukes, and all the different encounters military personnel have had sober, trained observers that are not drunk on duty, they're not high.
02:11:43.000And I've had unbelievable, high level, serious people in and out of government privately pull me aside and tell me about their personal experiences.
02:11:54.000And, like, Dave, you're the only person I can tell you.
02:11:56.000I can only tell my wife because I had this thing, this happened, this happened.
02:11:59.000I thought I was losing my mind, but this really happened.
02:12:02.000And it was, and it's, it's, I think a lot, a bigger part of the populace, I think, has had experiences than statistics would tell you just because of the stigmatization of the topic.
02:12:13.000I mean, I don't know very many people that have had encounters, but all of them are very reluctant to talk about it.
02:12:23.000Like, there's a lot of people behind the scenes that are very credible supporting me, talking to people behind the scenes to bolster my efforts.
02:13:01.000Still, even at where we are right now in the movie, so to speak, where we're on the threshold of possibly President Trump succeeding and his team.
02:13:09.000Getting this information out there, if they can, you know, broker a way ahead with the elements, I'll call it the deep state, that are holding on.
02:13:18.000And it seems crazy, like, well, but couldn't the White House just break down the door?
02:13:23.000Like, why is there pushback, all that?
02:13:25.000Well, you think about MKUltra and how Richard Helms told Sidney Gottlieb to destroy the records.
02:13:31.000And the only reason why we know of MKUltra is Seymour Hirsch, right?
02:13:50.000And also, what they call the family jewels, crown jewels, where CI Director Schlesinger wrote down all the bad stuff the CI was doing that we got to make sure this stuff doesn't come out.
02:14:04.000And then there was a 1964 ish CIA Inspector General report that was classified and clearly wasn't given to Congress.
02:14:12.000And that's the only reason we know about MKUltra.
02:14:15.000It was reluctantly, there was an oopsies.
02:14:18.000You know, and part of this went public.
02:14:20.000And so I guess there's some historical parallels to my journey and stuff on this issue.0.50
02:14:24.000But, and once again, MKUltra, like they had a drag CIA to con, they had found all this other bad stuff the heart attack gun, all this stuff in the church committee hearings.0.57
02:14:34.000And, you know, the Operation Midnight Climax.0.52
02:15:10.000But I think what people really have a hard time comprehending is that if this is real and if we have been visited, why doesn't everyone know about it already?
02:15:19.000Why haven't they made themselves known?
02:15:23.000And then there's also this weird thing if anybody that's actually experienced it, like if you have a novel experience, if you are going through a national park in Utah and there's no one out there, and then all of a sudden some disc shows up, hovers over you, lands, some strange creatures come out of it, talk to you telepathically, get back in the disc, and take off.
02:15:46.000Then you have the whole missing 411 stuff that out there.
02:15:55.000I would say it's reasonably pervasive, but we see these craft using cover concealment deception techniques such as signature management, right?
02:16:02.000Like think of the Klingon bird of prey cloaking, right?
02:16:27.000They'll learn more about the objectives, why they're here, why there hasn't been overt contact, but clearly interactions with the secular nation state governments.
02:16:41.000And so there's, or is it like the prime directive in Star Trek, right?
02:16:46.000Where they're pre warp civilization, we observe, we're interested here, we're studying the planet, but we're not going to overtly influence their development because that's unethical according to our standards of behavior and norms and rules of engagement.
02:17:00.000You know, like it is in Star Trek, for example.
02:17:02.000Well, also, just to avoid any sort of unbelievably catastrophic upheaval of society, you would do it very slowly, like it's being done.
02:17:30.00010 years before that, you talked about this stuff, you were a fucking idiot and a kook.1.00
02:17:35.000This is a cottage industry, and I also, going back to the kind of the pattern of lifing this, so to speak, I think the nature of the interaction was more overt in antiquity.1.00
02:17:45.000So, something changed at some point in human history where going back to Greek gods and, you know, the Anunnaki, whatever ends up being true, we'll find out, I guess, in this process.
02:17:56.000That seems more overt, like, you know, mass kind of interactions.
02:18:02.000But then I'm sure you've seen those ancient paintings that it looks like a guy sitting in a craft that has like fire behind it and he's flying through the sky.
02:18:30.000I don't know the answer to that, but it does seem if you pattern a life, the nature of their show and display, their concealment, deception, their force presentation, so to speak, you know, to use kind of military talk, has changed.
02:18:42.000And clearly, they're less likely to do anything major, negative, or Positive.
02:23:48.000And I just look at my own personal journey.
02:23:52.000You know, I was in like the right place at the right time and so many instances in my career to learn certain.
02:23:56.000Things that would help me later, and like you know, met certain people at the right time.
02:24:02.000And of course, you know, there's like a analytical bias most humans have where they're ascribing meaning to certain interactions that are actually truly random, statistically random, right?
02:24:11.000But I've talked to enough people that say the same thing, and I just there's something going on.
02:24:18.000There's a there's like a hidden hand part of the phenomenon that I can't, it's like a certain genus I can't like point my finger on that I think is really interesting too.
02:24:35.000I think that's like almost like going back to remote viewing because, you know, the Stargate program, Grill Flame, all the different names it had, like that was adjacent to the program.
02:24:43.000Why do you think we were doing the psychic spying program besides competing with the Soviets and Chinese on the same topic is because that's the key unlock to some of the technology, potentially.
02:24:53.000If you could figure out how to, it's what they call it like BCI, brain computer interface, but like clearly there's some sort of organic to.
02:25:02.000Tech interface and it's clearly consciousness based.
02:25:06.000Not to digress on your original question.
02:25:07.000No, but this is what Lazar said as well that there was no instruments and that these things controlled this with their mind.
02:25:14.000It depends on the class of vehicle, and like there's like really weird shit that we have no idea how it works to like, oh, that kind of looks familiar.0.95
02:25:22.000What's the weirdest of the really weird shit?0.76
02:25:24.000I mean, you just have like the eggs and stuff.0.97
02:25:30.000And it's like, is this like a probe?0.99
02:25:32.000It's just, it's like a fucking egg, you know?0.97
02:25:34.000Like, and I know Jake Barber has talked about publicly recovering them, you know, and, uh, You know, I heard about that elsewhere from people who were dealing with that.0.98
02:26:11.000The threshold disclosure, you know, call it, we're not alone, we have stuff kind of thing.
02:26:16.000It has to happen before Trump leaves because I don't trust another president to follow through on the president's directive because, you know, it's the next administration can be like, we're peeling that back, baby, we're not touching this again.
02:26:29.000So I think he has to do it before he leaves office.
02:26:32.000And if I were advising the president and if the team's listening, I would do it at least six months before the election just so there's some sort of Recovery period and kind of, uh, and whatnot.
02:28:33.000However, like I said earlier in the interview, I am fearful that AI is going to figure some of this shit out, whether it be technology stuff or the fact that we're not alone just by looking at all the disparate databases and correlating data, especially if it gets connected to any sort of genetic record, medical record, sensing system.
02:28:54.000That's a real threat that if I were to advise the White House, they need to think about that third party unexpected disclosure pathway that artificial superintelligence provides, both from a technology risk perspective, but also revealing some of this too.
02:29:12.000And once again, artificial silicon based AI is the infrastructure that we need to communicate to some of this organic intelligence too, because it's able to learn and figure out modalities of communication.