The Joe Rogan Experience - October 14, 2026


Joe Rogan Experience #2565 - Michael Douglas

Hosted by
Guests
Mentioned
Joe Rogan Experience #2564 - Chuck Lorre

Episode Stats


Length

2 hours and 10 minutes

Words per minute

164.32

Word count

21,389

Sentence count

2,052

Harmful content

Misogyny

33

sentences flagged

Toxicity

217

sentences flagged

Hate speech

63

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcripts from "The Joe Rogan Experience" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.
00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
00:00:09.000 Very nice to meet you, sir.
00:00:13.000 Thank you.
00:00:14.000 I've been a fan for a long time.
00:00:16.000 Oh, wow.
00:00:17.000 Appreciate that.
00:00:17.000 Okay.
00:00:18.000 Falling Down is one of my all time favorite movies.
00:00:20.000 That is such a crazy movie.
00:00:20.000 Yeah.
00:00:23.000 I rewatched some scenes today, getting ready for it.
00:00:26.000 And the scene where you confront the guy who's working on the highway and say, there's nothing wrong with this highway. 0.96
00:00:33.000 The thing that everybody a lot of times thinks is that they have these budgets, and if you don't spend all the money, then you don't get the money next year, so you got to tear up the fucking road and you take a bazooka out. 0.97
00:00:33.000 Me. 0.97
00:00:43.000 I know.
00:00:44.000 I mean, the spooky thing I see about, I guess, the money is just how Matt meets up to today.
00:00:52.000 Yes.
00:00:53.000 This is 30 years later.
00:00:55.000 That's the thing that's sort of interesting, but also depressing.
00:00:59.000 It is depressing.
00:01:00.000 You would have thought we would have figured it all out by now.
00:01:03.000 Yeah.
00:01:04.000 Especially with the use of the internet.
00:01:06.000 So much more information that was available than when you made that film.
00:01:09.000 Right.
00:01:10.000 The world's a totally different place, and yet it resonates perfectly.
00:01:13.000 Yeah.
00:01:14.000 Well, thank you.
00:01:14.000 Yeah, that's one of my favorites, too.
00:01:16.000 That kind of dark comedy.
00:01:19.000 Yeah, I mean, it was a dark comedy.
00:01:21.000 And there's parts, completely caricaturist, unsympathetic characters, like the guys on the golf course.
00:01:28.000 Where the guy dies because he freaks out of his heart attack, and you go, I guess you're going to die.
00:01:28.000 Right.
00:01:33.000 No, they were.
00:01:34.000 I remember getting the studio calling me down.
00:01:39.000 Mr. Took it to Warren to go down to the office.
00:01:41.000 Mike had to come down.
00:01:42.000 I came down to the office and I was introduced to Mr. Ho, who was chairman of the Korean Grocers Association.
00:01:50.000 And they said, We have a real beef here.
00:01:53.000 You got a scene here where you're knocking up a Korean grocery store and attitude and all that.
00:02:00.000 And I said, Well, look, I didn't write the script, but you got to understand there must have been something in it that hit people who triggered it because that was a scene.
00:02:09.000 And so he listened to me, bless him.
00:02:11.000 And I was back in New York about three weeks later in my local Korean grocery store.
00:02:16.000 And they were wearing smile buttons.
00:02:19.000 And I thought, okay, there you go.
00:02:23.000 He made a dent. 1.00
00:02:24.000 Well, it almost became like a symbol, you know, of don't fuck with me. 1.00
00:02:29.000 I'm ready to crack. 0.99
00:02:32.000 Which I think a lot of people resonate with.
00:02:35.000 I even had a guy come on the podcast dressed as you and falling down once.
00:02:39.000 Ooh.
00:02:40.000 Brought the suitcase and everything.
00:02:41.000 Ooh, that was a little.
00:02:44.000 I hope you frisked him down a few times.
00:02:44.000 He did it.
00:02:46.000 Gavin McGinnis.
00:02:47.000 He did it for fun.
00:02:47.000 Yeah.
00:02:48.000 But it was fun.
00:02:49.000 It was hilarious.
00:02:50.000 But you've been in a ton of insane movies.
00:02:54.000 What is it like to write a memoir?
00:02:56.000 That's got to be a weird feeling to relive your life and try to be as honest as you can and put it all down.
00:03:04.000 Yeah.
00:03:05.000 No, I resisted it for a long, long time.
00:03:10.000 And.
00:03:12.000 And then, well, it was sort of after I had cancer about 16 years ago, stage four, you know, wasn't good.
00:03:21.000 I lost a couple of friends who had the same cancer I did.
00:03:25.000 Larry Hagman, I remember from Dallas, the show, and Nick Ashford, Ashford Simpson, and, you know, I wasn't sure.
00:03:34.000 And I talked about it, it was funny, and it was stage four.
00:03:39.000 My friends, they kind of abandoned me, you know, a lot of friends, and I realized.
00:03:45.000 With cancer, people don't quite know what to say.
00:03:48.000 And if it's stage four, they don't know if they're coming to say goodbye or this or that.
00:03:52.000 So they just avoided you?
00:03:53.000 They kind of, yeah, they checked in.
00:03:55.000 You kind of just, yeah, it was kind of quiet while we were going through the chemo and the radiation.
00:04:00.000 It happens to a lot of people, but they just don't quite know where it's all going.
00:04:05.000 So, this one guy, though, Shane Salerno, who I worked with on it, who was a screenwriter, and he had done an adaptation of a script for me a long time ago, and I hardly remembered him.
00:04:20.000 But he started sending me these notes, sort of like a coach, you know, just these little notes, you kick it out, you can do it, you can do it.
00:04:27.000 And I just remembered being really touched by it.
00:04:30.000 And then afterwards, he got into more of a being a literary agent, and he kept asking me about, you know, to write a book and all of that.
00:04:41.000 And I was busy.
00:04:42.000 But then after the cancer, things kind of slowed down.
00:04:49.000 My order of priorities changed a lot.
00:04:54.000 And so then I started thinking about it.
00:04:59.000 I read a book when I was beginning as a producer called Memo, and it was written by David O. Selznick, a big producer who had gone with the wind and all of that.
00:05:13.000 And it was a book that told you what a producer does, and it was basically all of the notes that David O. Selznick wrote about his pictures, whether it was costumes or props or this or that, all the things that he sort of covered.
00:05:27.000 So I said, you know, maybe I'll do like a handbook.
00:05:31.000 I'll take like 12 of my movies and I'll tell stories from them.
00:05:35.000 From the very beginning, the creations and the process we went through, and you know, thinking about it.
00:05:42.000 And also, I had my dad, Kirk, you know, he had written nine books already, including a good biography, The Ragman's Son.
00:05:57.000 And I was also thinking, well, you know, we're kind of a unique situation here between my father and I. Can't say this about too many, two generations.
00:06:05.000 We got 80 years in the business, 120.
00:06:08.000 130 movies between us.
00:06:12.000 So there was a legacy thought going on.
00:06:16.000 But as I got into it, I said, I guess I got to talk about the personal stuff too.
00:06:24.000 And you just got to talk about your life and the issues and parts of it, the good and the bad.
00:06:33.000 And yeah, enjoy your ride.
00:06:36.000 It's kind of scary.
00:06:37.000 I started doing it and then saying, do I really want to. 0.99
00:06:42.000 Share all this shit with everybody. 0.99
00:06:47.000 But I figured, why not? 1.00
00:06:49.000 And pass it on to my generation and the next.
00:06:53.000 And so it kind of is a combination of my personal life and people who are interested in a lot of different movies about how they happened or how the whole development went.
00:07:06.000 And holy shit, then all of a sudden people liked it.
00:07:12.000 And the book's a big hit. 0.99
00:07:14.000 It's like, wow.
00:07:16.000 I think part of it also is when you start with that handbook idea of just doing it about movies, then the producer and the career ambition gets in and says, No, you know, sex, drugs, and rock and roll, man.
00:07:29.000 I mean, it still sells.
00:07:32.000 You know, we still got to bring that all up.
00:07:34.000 Well, it's also real.
00:07:36.000 I mean, that was your life.
00:07:38.000 You were burdened with youth, good looks, and fame.
00:07:43.000 A gift and a burden at the same time.
00:07:46.000 The son of a great man.
00:07:47.000 So there's a lot of pressure on you just because of that.
00:07:52.000 Yeah, kids are, kids can be nasty.
00:07:55.000 I mean, when they know something about your family, when they know who your mother is, who your father is, they can make certain assumptions. 0.79
00:08:05.000 The Nepo baby assumption, right? 0.75
00:08:07.000 Yeah.
00:08:08.000 Which, by the way, since we're touching that, tell me I'm crazy, but isn't just about every single business involving Nepo babies? 0.68
00:08:16.000 Doesn't every mother and father try to get their son or daughter? 0.73
00:08:20.000 Sure.
00:08:21.000 Well, certainly, like restaurants, it's super common.
00:08:24.000 One of my favorite restaurants is this place, Gaitano's, in Las Vegas.
00:08:28.000 The son runs it and the dad started it.
00:08:31.000 Or cleaning businesses or groceries, anything.
00:08:34.000 Family businesses. 0.97
00:08:35.000 I don't know why they picked on celebrity.
00:08:40.000 Because it's so difficult to acquire.
00:08:43.000 It's such a rare thing that most people are not going to get it.
00:08:46.000 And if you get that rare thing just because you're the son of a great man, people get upset at you.
00:08:51.000 Because it's supposed to be this insane struggle through poverty and strife to get to that point where finally you made it.
00:08:59.000 Well, my father did that part.
00:09:01.000 Yeah, I know, but look, I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
00:09:03.000 I think people are just jealous and upset.
00:09:06.000 That's what I think. 1.00
00:09:07.000 Because the history of second generations is not great in our business. 1.00
00:09:11.000 No, it's understandable that they would have all these critiques. 0.99
00:09:15.000 It's understandable that they would feel bad about it.
00:09:17.000 It's understandable that they would feel that it's not fair.
00:09:20.000 But they can't say you weren't great. 0.99
00:09:23.000 I mean, Gordon Gekko, how many fucking assholes did cocaine and And we were like terrible stockbrokers because of that movie. 1.00
00:09:23.000 That's the thing. 1.00
00:09:33.000 It was my fault.
00:09:34.000 Marty Decker was a hero.
00:09:34.000 The effect.
00:09:36.000 It was so weird.
00:09:37.000 It was so crazy.
00:09:37.000 It was so weird afterwards.
00:09:39.000 Victor came out, and every time in New York, I'd be around these half drunk Wall Street guys.
00:09:45.000 You're the man.
00:09:46.000 I said, What are you talking about?
00:09:46.000 You're the man.
00:09:47.000 I'm the villain.
00:09:48.000 No, And it was like, Oh, it really was an eye opener for me.
00:09:53.000 Oh, my God.
00:09:55.000 They love the pizzazz and the clothes and the.
00:10:00.000 Nothing has any moralities whatsoever.
00:10:02.000 It didn't matter.
00:10:03.000 They wanted that character. 0.98
00:10:04.000 You were like Tony Soprano for Italian guys. 0.85
00:10:06.000 Yeah. 1.00
00:10:07.000 Like, let's go.
00:10:08.000 Right, right.
00:10:09.000 Go get it. 0.97
00:10:10.000 Take it down. 0.90
00:10:11.000 Do the coke.
00:10:12.000 Steal the money.
00:10:14.000 They wanted you to wear the most expensive suits possible.
00:10:17.000 That's what they wanted.
00:10:17.000 They rooted for a bad guy.
00:10:19.000 It's very interesting.
00:10:21.000 What year was that?
00:10:22.000 What year was Wall Street?
00:10:23.000 85.
00:10:25.000 85.
00:10:25.000 Wow.
00:10:26.000 So I didn't realize that stockbrokers were crazy until about 88.
00:10:33.000 There was a guy that I used to do martial arts with. 0.80
00:10:35.000 He was a really crazy guy.
00:10:37.000 And then I ran into him at a bar, and he was telling me, he was probably, yeah, probably 88.
00:10:42.000 I was probably 21.
00:10:44.000 He was telling me how he was a stockbroker now, and he just does a bunch of coke, and he's making all this money. 0.97
00:10:51.000 And he was a psychopath. 0.97
00:10:53.000 Like, I had known him as a fighter, and he was an animal. 0.97
00:10:55.000 And all of a sudden, this guy's just telling me, This is what I'm doing now.
00:10:58.000 I'm selling stocks.
00:10:59.000 And he had a nice suit on.
00:11:01.000 It was like, it's crazy, like, looking at this person that I always knew as, like, a psychopath, like, a scary guy at his bar with. 0.99
00:11:07.000 And here he is, like wearing like coughs and shit. 0.99
00:11:09.000 He had cufflinks. 0.99
00:11:10.000 I was like, this is hilarious.
00:11:12.000 You're doing this?
00:11:13.000 No, and they did a lot.
00:11:13.000 That's what they all got in the club.
00:11:15.000 They were following the markets in Asia, you know, at four o'clock in the morning and wherever they were.
00:11:22.000 And then that's what they all got just wired.
00:11:24.000 Well, they had to stay up, right?
00:11:25.000 Yeah.
00:11:26.000 And now it's done even crazier where they're like, they're moving the servers as close as possible to the actual stock market so they can get trades in like a millisecond quicker.
00:11:35.000 Like, oh.
00:11:38.000 And all those people.
00:11:39.000 Gordon Gekko's the hero.
00:11:45.000 Greed is good.
00:11:46.000 How many guys got that tattooed on them?
00:11:48.000 How many guys have that framed up on their wall?
00:11:48.000 I know.
00:11:51.000 I guarantee quite a few.
00:11:53.000 And again, you know, all has happened in the 40 years since that movie is the money, the size, the scope that I was dealing with, it seems so enormous at that time, is pittance compared to what's going on right now.
00:12:12.000 And now there's other crazy stuff like that, like crypto coins.
00:12:16.000 Yeah.
00:12:17.000 Like, what are you doing?
00:12:19.000 What are you doing?
00:12:20.000 You got fake money?
00:12:20.000 You got fake money that's worth real money?
00:12:22.000 Have you figured it out?
00:12:24.000 I've listened to like three lectures.
00:12:27.000 Trying to understand it, and I still can't.
00:12:30.000 My buddy Kurt Metzger told me that he thinks it's just people that are gambling addicts.
00:12:34.000 It's a new thing to gamble on, and it's also a new thing to rig.
00:12:38.000 So, one of the things they can do is, like, say, if we develop a Michael Douglas crypto coin, you could do that.
00:12:44.000 And someone would put a bunch of money into that, like, say, a million dollars or five million dollars into this crypto coin.
00:12:52.000 Like, this is how we're going to invest in this crypto coin.
00:12:55.000 And then everybody else, as your fans, buys in.
00:12:59.000 And hoping they're going to get out before it crashes because everybody kind of knows it's going to crash.
00:13:03.000 And they pull out the money that was supposed to be for the coin immediately and they get it to you.
00:13:11.000 Sounds like a Ponzi scheme.
00:13:12.000 Sounds like a Ponzi scheme.
00:13:14.000 Yeah.
00:13:14.000 So you get all this money invested in it.
00:13:16.000 You figure out a way through like offshore corporations or whatever little tricky filters you have to do to suck all that money out.
00:13:24.000 And it's just a way to bribe people.
00:13:26.000 Yeah.
00:13:27.000 Well.
00:13:29.000 What a world!
00:13:30.000 What a world!
00:13:31.000 It's the Wild West.
00:13:33.000 With that kind of stuff, it's the Wild West.
00:13:35.000 So to me, it's like the stock market on steroids.
00:13:37.000 It's like some new wacky kind of stock market where you're making money.
00:13:43.000 You're making your own money.
00:13:44.000 How many fake monies are there or crypto monies are there? 0.99
00:13:47.000 Well, it's fucking thousands of them. 0.99
00:13:48.000 Yeah. 0.98
00:13:50.000 No, and it seems the accessibility and the ability to do it just keeps getting larger.
00:13:59.000 Which I think is really the base of issues going on.
00:14:03.000 The disparity of wealth is very, very depressing, very frustrating.
00:14:09.000 Well, it's certainly frustrating that more people don't have an opportunity to do better in this life and that no one's paying attention to that.
00:14:16.000 That's what I've always said to like if you look at the country as a community, you would say, okay, if this is all our friends, this is all people we care about, why are so many of them living in abject poverty for decade upon decade?
00:14:28.000 Why is there crime ridden neighborhoods that never get better?
00:14:32.000 Why is there gang ridden neighborhoods that never get better?
00:14:34.000 But they've been ignored.
00:14:36.000 Yeah.
00:14:37.000 They haven't.
00:14:37.000 We could throw resources at that the same way we threw resources at rebuilding Iraq.
00:14:43.000 You know what I mean?
00:14:44.000 We could throw resources at fixing these spots and weigh it out.
00:14:48.000 No.
00:14:49.000 And that's why people get really mad.
00:14:51.000 And that's why people get almost cheer on when Luigi shoots that United Healthcare guy.
00:14:56.000 Yeah. 1.00
00:14:57.000 Because people are like, yeah, fuck you. 1.00
00:14:58.000 It's falling down all over again. 1.00
00:14:59.000 All over.
00:15:00.000 Yeah.
00:15:00.000 Same kind of thing.
00:15:01.000 Come down to it.
00:15:02.000 I mean, like 50% of Americans own stocks.
00:15:06.000 And 50% do not.
00:15:08.000 And if you look at stocks, the way the market has gone, however it's controlled or whatever happens progressively, it's compounding, you know, versus the 50% of people who don't have stocks are living on a paycheck, which is getting smaller and smaller with inflation.
00:15:27.000 Yeah, it's a goofy time.
00:15:30.000 And then on top of that, they're talking about AI taking away everybody's jobs.
00:15:33.000 And there doesn't seem to be any real clear path.
00:15:37.000 To mitigating the massive effect that that's going to have on the economy and all these people that are going to be unemployed.
00:15:42.000 Right.
00:15:43.000 Right, right.
00:15:44.000 It's a weird thing we're in the middle of right now.
00:15:48.000 Well, I had a guy who came and lectured me when I was in college, a guy named Buckminster Fuller.
00:15:57.000 And he was the guy responsible for the geodesic dome and all of that.
00:16:01.000 But the other thing he did, he had a book called Spaceship Earth.
00:16:06.000 And to me, at a young age at the time, he really made it clear how tiny.
00:16:13.000 How tiny this little planet is, and all of their Hubble telescopes that were looking out further and further.
00:16:20.000 I'm sure there's got to be something else out there in the universe, and maybe we will.
00:16:26.000 But right now, this is it.
00:16:29.000 This is it.
00:16:30.000 This is it.
00:16:31.000 And it's beginning to kind of crumble worldwide, you know, with the climate and all of this.
00:16:40.000 And so I find it hard to understand after two major world wars and having this.
00:16:47.000 This period of relative peace, that things are beginning to really crack again.
00:16:54.000 And how individual countries, and we talk about the U.S. being the most powerful, but we all just got to work together.
00:17:04.000 We got to this.
00:17:05.000 There should be no more, there's no reason for any more wars.
00:17:10.000 And yet there's more conflict going on than ever, ever before.
00:17:15.000 Who's the cause of it?
00:17:17.000 Some people say social media is designed to create conflict or create enemies, but it just can't be.
00:17:25.000 We've got to get over this and just all begin to try to work together.
00:17:31.000 And that's why I support a couple of organizations that I know are not the most popular right now, but are greatly conceived.
00:17:41.000 The United Nations is one of them.
00:17:48.000 Us to get together.
00:17:49.000 I know the U.S. gets pissed off sometimes when votes don't go their way, you know, financially supported.
00:17:56.000 It has issues, but we have to work on the whole world understanding what's happening.
00:18:05.000 I get nervous when I see, you know, Musk looking for all these guys looking for planets to move to, like they already know something I don't know, you know, like it's already passed.
00:18:16.000 We got to get out of here.
00:18:18.000 It's of concern.
00:18:19.000 Today is brought to you by the number one brand for better sex, Blue Chew.
00:18:23.000 Blue Chew Gold is a four in one powerhouse that gets your brain and your body on the same page for sex.
00:18:31.000 Two ingredients get the blood flow pumping, and two ingredients prime your brain for arousal.
00:18:36.000 No overthinking, just peak performance in as little as 15 minutes.
00:18:40.000 Look at the stats.
00:18:41.000 Gold is three times stronger, five times faster, and eight times longer lasting than old school methods.
00:18:47.000 Blue Chew Gold is the real deal.
00:18:49.000 Right now, buy two months of Blue Chew Gold and get the third free with my code ROGAN.
00:18:54.000 You'll also receive free overnight shipping.
00:18:57.000 That's promo code ROGAN.
00:18:59.000 Head over to bluechew.com for details and important safety information.
00:19:03.000 Check it out.
00:19:04.000 This ad and the products being advertised are intended for a United States audience.
00:19:09.000 Well, it is a concern.
00:19:11.000 I think they're looking to other planets, first of all, because it's very difficult to do, and people always want to be the first to do something to colonize a planet, but also because we all feel like at any moment now this could all go sideways.
00:19:24.000 And that there could be a nuclear conflict in the war and it could ignite.
00:19:30.000 And it could be terrifying.
00:19:31.000 And the thing is much like we were talking about falling down, if you watch that film and you see the issues he was dealing with then, it's the same issues we're dealing with today.
00:19:40.000 Today.
00:19:41.000 It's the same thing with war.
00:19:43.000 It always seems to go into this pattern, and it's always the same thing.
00:19:47.000 It's always leaders and people who control those leaders who want access to resources and control resources, and we let those people dictate what happens in the world because it's a very small amount of people affecting a very large amount of people.
00:20:01.000 The only hope is that we all together figure that out because I don't think people were even completely aware of that in this country until probably like the 60s and the 70s. 0.96
00:20:12.000 People started thinking that the government does not have our best interest in mind, and especially during Vietnam, this is a fucking crazy war that makes no sense.
00:20:19.000 And even today, no one thinks it was a good idea to go in there. 0.94
00:20:22.000 How many people died?
00:20:23.000 And I think more people are aware of that.
00:20:27.000 The whole thing is more transparent now than it's ever been before, which I think is a good sign.
00:20:32.000 I wish we learned quicker, but we don't.
00:20:35.000 We learn slowly, but I think we're learning.
00:20:38.000 Well, I hope so.
00:20:39.000 I mean, this when I look back at my father's career and post World War II, Where characters were the good guys, the bad guys, white hats or black hats, villains and everything.
00:20:54.000 And then I grew up, and then with the Vietnam War and all that, so I've always been fascinated in this gray area.
00:21:01.000 So it's hard sometimes to know the morality choice or what's right or wrong.
00:21:07.000 This is what's frustrating.
00:21:08.000 But you brought up a point, Joe, which I'd like to raise and maybe get your advice.
00:21:12.000 Because one of my earliest pictures that I did was the China Syndrome.
00:21:20.000 The China Syndrome was about a nuclear meltdown in a power plant.
00:21:26.000 And we were under a lot of critical claim, we being myself, Jane Fonda, who's also a producing partner at that time, about our credibility and how irresponsible it was.
00:21:40.000 And GE was pushing us about nuclear power and all of that.
00:21:47.000 And the movie came out and was a successful film, you know, did very well.
00:21:53.000 But still criticized.
00:21:54.000 And then, 12 days after the movie came out, Three Mile Island happened in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
00:22:04.000 And I had like an epiphany.
00:22:06.000 I'm not a religious guy, but I felt like somebody was telling me something.
00:22:12.000 And so I became involved in understanding more about nuclear weapons and plutonium and the half life and all of this.
00:22:23.000 And I followed through our. 0.57
00:22:26.000 Our nuclear conflicts with Russia.
00:22:30.000 And I want to make a suggestion to you because you maybe have some connections to the president.
00:22:38.000 This war, this Ukraine Russian war, and the effort to find an answer to it, and an effort for the president to win the Nobel Peace Prize.
00:22:51.000 And my idea is I don't know.
00:22:56.000 What Putin has on Trump, or what this connection is, or why Trump always feels like he's got to reach out to help Putin and this.
00:23:06.000 93% of our country, Republicans and Democrats, don't like Putin.
00:23:12.000 It's one of the few things that really aligns us together.
00:23:16.000 So, why don't we try making peace in Ukraine, which gave up nuclear weapons?
00:23:23.000 They gave up their nuclear weapon.
00:23:25.000 Why isn't Donald Trump?
00:23:27.000 And Vladimir Putin dramatically reduced, if not give up, our nuclear stockpiles.
00:23:35.000 Obviously, the other six or seven countries that have a very minimal amount of nuclear weapons would have to be.
00:23:41.000 This could be the greatest thing that would happen in our generation.
00:23:45.000 And in terms of settling this peace, making peace in Ukraine, and where Ukraine may have to give up some territory, I'm hoping that President Trump could make a deal with Putin say, you know what, U.S., Russia, let's give up our weapons.
00:24:04.000 Because it's totally obsolete.
00:24:07.000 There's no need, there's no question about it because these weapons would just destroy the world.
00:24:13.000 It's mutual assured destruction.
00:24:15.000 If he can do that, and he could, if he spent the next two years of his presidency negotiating with Putin, we could get rid of nuclear weapons, and I guarantee I would commit my life for him getting that Nobel Peace Prize because he would deserve it.
00:24:35.000 It's a great utopian idea.
00:24:37.000 I agree with you.
00:24:38.000 It would be awesome if there was no nuclear weapons.
00:24:41.000 If we all agreed as a species, as the human civilization, that there's no need to have something that can kill every man, woman, child, every animal and plant on earth many times over.
00:24:53.000 I mean, the amount of weapons that we have today are absurd.
00:24:56.000 If we all together, the whole world, China, Russia, United States, all the other countries just launched all their bombs at once, just imagine what the world would look like when it's over.
00:25:05.000 It would be over.
00:25:06.000 It wouldn't be over.
00:25:07.000 It would be on fire.
00:25:08.000 It would be a glowing orb.
00:25:10.000 We're crazy that we even have that kind of stuff.
00:25:13.000 However, I don't ever think that any country that has a military is going to give up all their nuclear weapons if there are nuclear weapons out there in the world.
00:25:22.000 And how would you be able to assure?
00:25:23.000 One of the things they're always terrified about is I mean, this was one of the big conspiracy theories when do you remember that New Jersey drone thing that was going on?
00:25:31.000 Yeah.
00:25:31.000 One of the crazy conspiracies was that they were using these drones to search for a missing bomb.
00:25:39.000 And that there was a bomb or some nuclear device that was unaccounted for, and they believed it.
00:25:46.000 And so those were United States military drones that are very sophisticated, top secret stuff.
00:25:51.000 I don't know what's true or not, but I do know that they don't exactly know where all the bombs are all over the world.
00:25:57.000 And the idea that you would give up your nuclear weapons while weapons still exist is highly unlikely.
00:26:02.000 Well, but is this what AI is supposed to be doing?
00:26:04.000 Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.
00:26:05.000 That's what I was going to get to.
00:26:08.000 I think the only way we're really going to get out of this, and this is terrifying for biological human beings, is to let AI controls government and resources.
00:26:16.000 And it would have to have already become sentient and it would have to already exhibit super intelligence, reason, and logic.
00:26:24.000 And it would just evenly distribute resources amongst all the people.
00:26:29.000 Because when you look at the budgets alone, just for our nuclear programs, we could solve the defense budgets in this day and age versus our budget for humanitarian purposes is absurd.
00:26:44.000 I mean, it comes down to all people want, really, you know, is a roof over their head, housing and food. 0.80
00:26:53.000 And, you know, so all this money could be shifted over into other programs that would stop the need for Africans to have to immigrate. 0.58
00:27:04.000 You know, we have to restore areas of the world that are much more impoverished than us because this disparity of have and have nots. 0.94
00:27:14.000 Is going to create another world war.
00:27:18.000 They would never do this, but here's a way that you could make sure that something like this never happened.
00:27:26.000 Never happened.
00:27:29.000 When you have, like, think about all the money that comes from resources, like Earth's resources, whether it's oil, minerals, all these different things.
00:27:37.000 That is a part of the Earth and it's Earth's.
00:27:41.000 So if you made a law where all natural resources drawn from the Earth, like oil, will be evenly distributed amongst the population of that city, you know, minus operating costs, everything else gets evenly distributed amongst people because it is.
00:28:00.000 The human races, if we are all citizens of this earth, then the earth's resources should be shared by all of us.
00:28:07.000 Like, there's people that want to charge you for air, they think it's a good idea to charge you for clean air.
00:28:13.000 There's people charge you for water, you have a water bill, like someone owns the water, they charge you for the water.
00:28:20.000 Like, all that stuff should be the property of the human beings that live in that place.
00:28:26.000 Imagine how much that would transform the places that have diamond mines, imagine how much that would transform the places that are rich in oil money. 0.96
00:28:33.000 We have these monarchies that are controlling vast populations.
00:28:37.000 Because they were the first persons, or their ancestors were the first persons, to dig into the ground and pull up the oil.
00:28:37.000 Why?
00:28:43.000 It's kind of crazy.
00:28:45.000 You are insanely wealthy because you're sucking the lifeblood out of the earth, which really should kind of be everyone's. 0.99
00:28:53.000 Especially when they do shit like they go offshore and they're drilling offshore. 1.00
00:28:59.000 Where the fuck are you even? 1.00
00:29:00.000 You're not even in America anymore. 0.99
00:29:02.000 Like, what is this? 0.83
00:29:04.000 Amen.
00:29:06.000 You're stealing from the earth.
00:29:08.000 And then it lets you buy weapons.
00:29:11.000 And lets you, you know, a lot of these people that are involved in these immense corporations are involved in many immense corporations. 0.91
00:29:19.000 And the amount of money that they're making is kind of fucking kooky. 0.50
00:29:22.000 And when they have massive influence on politicians, and when politicians are allowed to like trade stocks where they have insider information, they're making fucking hundreds of millions of dollars on a $170,000 a year salary. 0.94
00:29:35.000 It's like all these things combined.
00:29:37.000 They compound and you get to the point where you're like, I don't know if this can be fixed.
00:29:41.000 Yeah.
00:29:41.000 And that's what they like.
00:29:42.000 They like us in a state of, I don't know if this can be fixed.
00:29:45.000 Because that way you're like, oh, what are you going to do?
00:29:45.000 Yeah.
00:29:48.000 So, like, you have your LA mayor race, you get a vote for communism or communism.
00:29:48.000 Put your hands up.
00:29:52.000 Good luck.
00:29:53.000 Right. 0.99
00:29:56.000 You just, you got fucked and you're going to have to, and everybody's like, wow, what are you going to do? 0.99
00:30:00.000 And people don't know what to do. 0.99
00:30:02.000 And then more taxes are going to come.
00:30:03.000 Like, I don't want to pay it, but I don't want to move. 0.99
00:30:05.000 And they'll just keep getting fucked. 1.00
00:30:06.000 Yeah. 1.00
00:30:07.000 And this is unfortunately where they like us to be.
00:30:11.000 I think it's one of the things about people that are in control and people that are the wealthiest amongst us that are operating in this very nefarious way.
00:30:21.000 They do like it when we're mad at each other. 0.99
00:30:23.000 They do like it when we're divided over the dumbest shit, over gender pronouns or fucking whatever it is, what nationality you are, what your religion is, whatever it is. 1.00
00:30:34.000 They love it when we're at each other's throats. 1.00
00:30:37.000 When most of the things that everybody wants, we all agree on.
00:30:43.000 And we all agree that the system that's in place right now is really not looking out for everybody.
00:30:49.000 It's just not.
00:30:49.000 Not at all.
00:30:50.000 No.
00:30:51.000 No.
00:30:52.000 No, it's not.
00:30:54.000 Never was there to be people campaigning about fixing inner cities, like a presidential campaign, like with a plan.
00:31:00.000 Like we have these areas that have traditionally been impoverished and gang ridden and crime ridden.
00:31:06.000 We can allocate resources.
00:31:08.000 This is the multi step program over the next five years that we're going to do to radically increase the amount of opportunities these young people have, increase their access to education.
00:31:16.000 Increase their access to community centers and places that will give them purpose and meaning.
00:31:21.000 Like that, you could change millions of lives in this country.
00:31:25.000 You can.
00:31:26.000 It means changing your budgetary requirements of what's important, and that's the part that's been difficult.
00:31:33.000 That's where Dr. AI is going to come in.
00:31:36.000 AI is going to be like Dr. Manhattan.
00:31:38.000 With the rails.
00:31:39.000 With the rails, we can't do it like this last go around with the social network stuff, which was out of control before anybody had a chance to do it.
00:31:52.000 And it's interesting, I'm understanding how the triggers work.
00:31:55.000 Most of the stuff is based.
00:31:57.000 On finding conflict.
00:31:59.000 So you look at all this stuff and it makes you have more enemies or it makes you get divisive rather than coming together.
00:32:07.000 Something happened, Joe, I don't know, maybe just my imagination, but even going back to Reagan, Reagan Republicans and a different time, just with politicians.
00:32:19.000 Politicians were like public servants.
00:32:24.000 It was a commitment you made to the country, to yourself.
00:32:29.000 And now it's just sort of a profit center.
00:32:33.000 The amount of money involved in politics, and then these guys turning around and becoming lobbyists, and all the insider kind of trading going on.
00:32:42.000 The corruption of this brilliant system.
00:32:46.000 You know, the last thing I really did, I played Ben Franklin in a show when he was in France, and I got into looking back at the Constitution and everything.
00:32:57.000 And what a brilliant piece of legislature this thing was!
00:33:01.000 It was incredible, it was so idealistic.
00:33:04.000 And now to watch it just over, you know, not just this administration, but it's been going on for a while, get so corrupted.
00:33:13.000 I used to think of, you know, politicians almost like the clergy.
00:33:19.000 You know, they were people to look up to.
00:33:21.000 And now, I don't want to get into your local politics here in Texas right now, but there's a couple of people running for office that are just like, come on, man, you can do better than that.
00:33:34.000 I agree with you.
00:33:35.000 And what's supposed to happen in those situations is the person who should have been a better candidate is supposed to lose because you should have had a better candidate to run against this other guy.
00:33:46.000 And that should rally people to do better.
00:33:48.000 That's supposedly what the system is based on.
00:33:51.000 It's not supposed to be based on your side winning every time.
00:33:53.000 It's supposed to be based on some sort of an understanding that people have opinions and if their expectations aren't met, there's consequences. 0.99
00:34:01.000 And people don't like corruption and they don't like bullshit and they don't like people fucking with their lives. 0.99
00:34:06.000 And sometimes you vote one way and you think, well, this is going to be better this way. 1.00
00:34:09.000 And it turns out Nope, same shit. 1.00
00:34:11.000 Okay, well, someone's got to do better. 1.00
00:34:13.000 Fuck that guy. 1.00
00:34:14.000 And you hope eventually a hero will rise. 1.00
00:34:17.000 But you're so much, I think, I don't know the exact statistics, but I think generationally, I'm a Democrat because my mother and father were Democrats before.
00:34:29.000 It takes an effort to maybe change parties.
00:34:32.000 I think Republicans, Republicans, because their mothers were fathers.
00:34:36.000 One of the questions I want to ask you is you supported Bernie Sanders at one time in your life.
00:34:43.000 And we're able, so you seem to have a much more open mind and ability to change and alter.
00:34:51.000 But I think a lot of people just sort of follow that political party generationally because their families did.
00:34:58.000 Yeah.
00:34:59.000 I think we have a real problem with having two distinct different parties only.
00:35:09.000 I don't think that's healthy for us.
00:35:12.000 I think it enhances this tendency that we have to be very tribal and to have this us versus them thing and to ignore all the craziness that our side is doing because it's our side.
00:35:27.000 And for me, it was first of all, the open border was insane.
00:35:31.000 It was insane to just not only leave the border open, but give people instructions on how to get in and also transport them to cities and then put them up in hotels.
00:35:43.000 It was really clear that a game was being played.
00:35:46.000 You could speculate all you want as to what that game was.
00:35:49.000 Was it for cheap labor?
00:35:51.000 Was it to turn these people into citizens and have them permanently voting your side because you helped them and let them in?
00:35:56.000 I don't know what it is, but it was something.
00:35:58.000 Was it to beef up the census by having all these people move into areas that were swing states and then you would have many more people and then these more people would count for more congressional seats?
00:36:09.000 That could be it too. 0.98
00:36:10.000 I don't know what it is, but it's fucking insane. 0.95
00:36:13.000 And if you want me to be a Democrat while you're just letting people fly in from the open border, I'm going, hey, fix that. 1.00
00:36:20.000 It seems crazy to have 10 million people of unknown origin enter into your country over a period of four million years. 0.99
00:36:27.000 Or, excuse me, four years.
00:36:29.000 But then you've also got the fact that they hadn't had a primary since 2012.
00:36:34.000 Like, how are you just slipping?
00:36:36.000 The whole thing is supposed to work a very specific way.
00:36:38.000 And if it's like we have to win, so we're just going to push that aside, and here's your candidate. 1.00
00:36:45.000 What the fuck are you doing? 0.99
00:36:47.000 That's not how it's supposed to be done. 0.99
00:36:50.000 And if you want me to vote for that, I'm not going to vote for that.
00:36:52.000 That seems crazy.
00:36:54.000 It seems dangerous. 0.99
00:36:55.000 You know that Biden wasn't the fucking president for four years. 0.99
00:36:58.000 It's really clear that he was, his mental ability was severely declined. 1.00
00:37:05.000 He was compromised.
00:37:06.000 There was clearly, you'd hear him talk, there's something wrong. 0.99
00:37:11.000 And then they gaslit us for four fucking years while whoever is behind the scenes, unelected, is actually running the country. 0.96
00:37:19.000 And I didn't want to keep that going. 0.99
00:37:21.000 I thought that's dangerous.
00:37:22.000 I didn't like the whole.
00:37:24.000 COVID vaccine mandatory thing that they were pushing for those four years.
00:37:29.000 I didn't like the coercion.
00:37:31.000 I didn't like keeping people from flying.
00:37:33.000 I didn't like any of that stuff.
00:37:34.000 It was all crazy.
00:37:35.000 And to me, that's what that group stood for.
00:37:39.000 What Trump stood for, some of it turned out to not be real.
00:37:43.000 Like one of them was the no wars.
00:37:44.000 Well, look, we're at a war with Iran.
00:37:46.000 So that wasn't real.
00:37:48.000 The other thing was closing the border.
00:37:50.000 That is real.
00:37:51.000 But then with that, then you have the, you know, Tim Dillon had a great description of ICE.
00:37:56.000 He's had former backyard carnival wrestlers who took like a seven week course.
00:38:03.000 It's nuts to just give someone a $50,000 signing bonus. 0.99
00:38:07.000 You train them for seven weeks and then give them guns, and you have a militarized force running through the fucking city streets. 0.99
00:38:13.000 And put a mask on your face. 1.00
00:38:15.000 And put a mask on your face.
00:38:16.000 Look, I can understand why they have to put a mask on their face because they get targeted.
00:38:20.000 But it's also like we're setting a weird precedent if you allow a militarized force to just go through the cities with no identification.
00:38:28.000 They don't have to have identification.
00:38:30.000 So I understand that you're trying to get out violent criminals, and I support that.
00:38:34.000 I get that.
00:38:35.000 But when you have a precedent, you're setting a precedent.
00:38:38.000 If you allow a militarized police force with no identification, with masks on, to enter into cities, of course, people are going to say this is an overstep.
00:38:47.000 Of course.
00:38:48.000 It seems crazy.
00:38:50.000 Yeah.
00:38:52.000 And your local police departments feel that same way, too.
00:38:57.000 I'm sure some of them do.
00:38:58.000 I mean, and some of them are dealing with like the trend to Aragwa gangs that were taking over apartment complexes in Colorado, and they're allowed to do that because it was some sort of a sanctuary city.
00:39:08.000 There's a lot of craziness that was going on during those four years. 0.98
00:39:11.000 And I was like, hey, this is fucking dangerous. 0.94
00:39:14.000 This can go really sideways. 0.99
00:39:18.000 And there was all that fucking defund the police stuff. 0.94
00:39:21.000 Like, hey, hey, hey, hit the brakes on that. 1.00
00:39:25.000 Defunding the fucking police is crazy. 1.00
00:39:26.000 Do you know how much crime there is? 1.00
00:39:28.000 Yeah.
00:39:28.000 It's also the tendency to let people go when they've committed violent crimes and to put them right back on the street with no cash bail.
00:39:35.000 Like, that's not a good idea.
00:39:38.000 None of these are good ideas.
00:39:39.000 And if you want me to support. 0.99
00:39:41.000 All these terrible fucking ideas just because I would be a good person and I'd be a Democrat. 0.99
00:39:45.000 Like, no, it doesn't make any sense. 0.99
00:39:48.000 That's how I felt.
00:39:50.000 I know that's how you felt.
00:39:52.000 What I'm curious about is how do you feel now?
00:39:55.000 Well, how I feel now is I do not like this Iran war in any way, shape, or form.
00:39:59.000 It doesn't make any sense for us.
00:40:02.000 It seems like it's getting really out of hand.
00:40:04.000 They were trying to get every single president, including Trump, in his first term to do this.
00:40:10.000 Yeah.
00:40:11.000 And now we've done it, and it's very clear it's a giant quagmire.
00:40:16.000 It's very clear there's no easy way out.
00:40:19.000 Not good.
00:40:20.000 And there's still a lot of people that insist that it had to happen, that Iran was the greatest funder of state terrorism in the world, and that what they were doing was funding and arming these forces and having them commit these terrorist attacks.
00:40:20.000 No.
00:40:34.000 And I'm sure a lot of that's true.
00:40:36.000 I concur, but they seem pretty smart.
00:40:42.000 How they've been handling this, and as we saw now, you know, in Saudi Arabia, and I mean, you know, it's sort of a Riyadh, Riyadh, that's like, you know, your Major Austin Airport, JFK, Riyadh Airport, they're getting it, it's opening up, it's getting bigger and bigger. 0.99
00:40:59.000 Oh, yeah, it's scary shit.
00:41:00.000 I'm surprised with all of our Western intelligence and Israelis intelligence that we have not had a better handle on the situation. 0.99
00:41:13.000 Well, Look, obviously, I'm not an expert on international relations, but I don't think the picture that they painted of how this was going to go down was even remotely accurate.
00:41:26.000 I think if they had gone in during the time where people were protesting in the streets, that would have been a completely different experience.
00:41:32.000 Like, that was the opportunity.
00:41:34.000 If they really were going to do this from the beginning, that would have been the opportunity.
00:41:37.000 When the Iranian people organically protest, I don't know if it's organic, I don't live there, but I mean, we know for a fact that there was a massive government crackdown on those people.
00:41:45.000 A lot of people were killed, a lot of people were jailed forever.
00:41:49.000 Thousands, tens of thousands. 0.80
00:41:51.000 No, I think it was instigated by Israel, by the fact that they had information that these key Iranian leaders would all be together and persuaded that we take them all out, we can turn it over. 0.87
00:42:08.000 And it didn't turn out that way. 0.78
00:42:10.000 No.
00:42:10.000 And there were a lot of people that were very skeptical of that from the moment that it was proposed.
00:42:16.000 I don't know how they convinced Trump to do it.
00:42:19.000 I do know that in any.
00:42:22.000 International conflict. 0.63
00:42:23.000 I'm sure even during Vietnam, even after people kind of knew the Gulf of Tonkin was horseshit, there was, I'm sure there's people even today that defend the Vietnam War.
00:42:34.000 I'm sure. 0.54
00:42:35.000 There's always, you're always going to be able to find people that will propose an argument whether someone has instructed them to do this or whether this is how they actually feel or whether they just like to argue and get on television and be the contrarian.
00:42:48.000 You're going to be, you're going to get people that support this war.
00:42:51.000 But I think the majority of the United States felt like one of the Things that we were voting for when we voted for Trump is no more wars. 1.00
00:43:00.000 Stop this shit. 1.00
00:43:00.000 Like, it's crazy. 1.00
00:43:03.000 I remember one of his speeches or one of his interviews, someone was asking him about Ukraine.
00:43:08.000 Do you want Ukraine to win?
00:43:09.000 Do you want Russia to win?
00:43:10.000 And he said, I just want people to stop dying.
00:43:13.000 And most people who voted for him based on that feel very upset that there's a new war going on. 0.98
00:43:22.000 But again, I'm not a fucking expert. 0.97
00:43:25.000 And so the problem is if you listen to people that actually understand missile production, They do say that Iran was ramping up their missile production and that they, if they had gotten a nuclear bomb, it would have been a fucking terrifying scenario. 0.97
00:43:43.000 I, yeah, that's true. 0.66
00:43:44.000 That's true too.
00:43:45.000 Well, it goes back to my point of why President Trump should get the Nobel Peace Prize next time.
00:43:53.000 Maybe go meet with him.
00:43:54.000 Maybe go sit him down and go, listen, buddy.
00:43:56.000 Yeah. 0.99
00:43:57.000 It's just Putin's never going to fucking do it. 0.99
00:43:59.000 He's never going to give up all his nukes. 0.99
00:44:00.000 Well, you know.
00:44:01.000 He seems like he really enjoys having complete and total power.
00:44:06.000 He loves the.
00:44:07.000 Like every king and emperor before him.
00:44:09.000 You know, he's essentially a king.
00:44:09.000 Yeah.
00:44:11.000 And the unpredictability feeling and everything, but I think it gets squeezed.
00:44:16.000 Just got to get them all on acid, right?
00:44:18.000 Get them all in a room together.
00:44:18.000 Yeah.
00:44:21.000 Give them each seven grams of mushrooms.
00:44:24.000 Put on some psychedelic music.
00:44:26.000 Have them all lie down on beanbags.
00:44:28.000 Right.
00:44:29.000 No, that was the biggest move in my life.
00:44:34.000 You know, I was born in New Jersey too.
00:44:37.000 What part of New Jersey were you born in?
00:44:39.000 New Brunswick.
00:44:39.000 Oh, right.
00:44:40.000 I was born in New Brunswick.
00:44:42.000 In a different format, it's kind of interesting.
00:44:46.000 A little background on my family, but my mother was English from the island of Bermuda, and her family had been in Bermuda, this little tiny island, for 400 years, right?
00:45:03.000 And she lied about her age at 16.
00:45:05.000 She wanted to be an actress, and she went to New York and went to acting school, and she met my father.
00:45:11.000 Kind of opposites attract each other.
00:45:15.000 And they had a little apartment.
00:45:17.000 They got together.
00:45:19.000 And my mother's oldest sister, my mother was one of six kids, married this guy, Seward Johnson.
00:45:30.000 And Seward Johnson was the founder of Johnson Johnson, along with his brother, right?
00:45:37.000 So it just happened that way.
00:45:40.000 So they were living as starving actors in a little one room apartment in New York.
00:45:46.000 And out in New Brunswick was the Johnson Castle.
00:45:52.000 He lived in a castle out there with my Aunt Ruth.
00:45:57.000 And then they got divorced.
00:45:59.000 And when they got divorced, they both had moved out of the castle.
00:46:03.000 So it turned out that my mother and father, on weekends, would go out to New Brunswick and get to stay in the castle.
00:46:12.000 It was his sister's place all along.
00:46:15.000 And she was pregnant, and I just happened to come early.
00:46:18.000 So I was born in New Brunswick.
00:46:20.000 Rather than in New York City.
00:46:24.000 Wow.
00:46:24.000 And so that was how it came about.
00:46:28.000 But I found a lot of interesting things in this book.
00:46:33.000 It brought me.
00:46:34.000 I also had thought with my grandfather, my grandfather on my father's side was from Belarus, it was part of Russia back in the turn of the century, 1900.
00:46:49.000 And I always thought that my grandfather had left like 1914, time of the Russian Revolution, you know, it was going on.
00:46:58.000 The Cossacks were rounding up all the Jews, putting them in these pogroms, and they're escaping.
00:47:04.000 And then I did that Henry Gates Find Your Roots show, you know, on television and everything else.
00:47:10.000 They did all this homework and they found out, no, no, your grandfather left in 1902.
00:47:15.000 I said, really?
00:47:17.000 He said, yeah, because he had two other brothers.
00:47:20.000 Who were bank robbers in Belarus in this area?
00:47:29.000 And they'd gone into jail, and the other brother, your grandfather, he got out in 1902.
00:47:37.000 And that's why he came to the country and he changed his name.
00:47:42.000 And then the irony is that the area in Belarus they came from was right near Chernobyl.
00:47:50.000 And if you know Chernobyl in Ukraine, that terrible.
00:47:54.000 Explosion disaster is right on the border with the Belarus area and the little town that they came from. 0.73
00:48:01.000 And it was downwind. 0.95
00:48:03.000 So the town where my family came from is part of that dead area.
00:48:08.000 Whoa.
00:48:09.000 Now it's just, you know.
00:48:11.000 Whoa.
00:48:12.000 Yeah.
00:48:13.000 And that was sort of.
00:48:14.000 It's still dead?
00:48:15.000 Can you visit it now?
00:48:16.000 No.
00:48:17.000 No, it's still.
00:48:17.000 Wow.
00:48:19.000 They're doing all these.
00:48:19.000 It's weird.
00:48:20.000 How long is it fixed for?
00:48:23.000 Well, probably 100,000 years or so.
00:48:25.000 Oh, yeah.
00:48:26.000 I mean, they're doing all these tests on these wild dogs and everything that they left around there.
00:48:32.000 They're doing all tests on them.
00:48:33.000 Those dogs are going to read your mind.
00:48:35.000 Exactly.
00:48:36.000 Exactly.
00:48:36.000 Mr. Douglas.
00:48:37.000 Mr. Douglas, can you get me some food, please?
00:48:39.000 Right.
00:48:41.000 So they was, you know, and so I grew up, well, they ended up getting married, my mother and my father, kind of opposites, you know.
00:48:52.000 She was Church of England, very good family, you know. 0.99
00:48:56.000 He's a Russian Jew. 1.00
00:48:58.000 His father's a junk man. 1.00
00:49:00.000 He's got six sisters. 0.99
00:49:02.000 He's just trying to get the hell out of Schenectady, New York, and begin his life.
00:49:09.000 And so he starts that, and they met from acting school, and then he gets off.
00:49:16.000 I have a brother who's three, the baby's 18 months old, Joel.
00:49:23.000 And we go to California.
00:49:24.000 He starts his career in California. 0.99
00:49:28.000 In less than a year, you know, he's married to my mother, but he's out fucking everything, you know. 0.96
00:49:34.000 And mom says, This is not working out, okay? 0.98
00:49:37.000 He was, you know, Hollywood just.
00:49:40.000 He was one of the first movie stars.
00:49:42.000 You stop and think about it.
00:49:44.000 Well, of that generation, yeah, I mean, it was, you know, but he was after Humphrey Bogart.
00:49:51.000 Right, but it was a recent thing in culture, is my point.
00:49:54.000 It was only like 10 or 15 years old being a movie star.
00:49:56.000 Yeah.
00:49:57.000 It was a new thing.
00:49:58.000 It was.
00:49:59.000 And so.
00:50:00.000 I moved back east and grew up back east with my mother, and dad was in California.
00:50:07.000 And over the years, I'd go out and have a lot of experiences between these two lives.
00:50:13.000 It was a very middle class life back east.
00:50:16.000 My mother did soap operas, she was an actress, and then dad was continuing to grow when I met him.
00:50:23.000 Anyway, my point is that I was in private boys' schools back east, all boys' schools.
00:50:32.000 Through right through high school.
00:50:37.000 And I remember going into the college advisor.
00:50:43.000 You know, when you're in high school, you got a guy, an advisor.
00:50:46.000 He's like, he's sort of like a travel agent.
00:50:49.000 You know, he's got these brochures of different schools he's showing you. 1.00
00:50:53.000 And my ass was tight. 0.99
00:50:55.000 I didn't really know what the hell, you know, I wanted to do. 1.00
00:50:58.000 And I'm looking at these Ivy League schools and these brochures.
00:51:02.000 And then I see, I stop and say, wait, wait a minute, what's that?
00:51:06.000 And he hands me this brochure and it says, Campus by the Sea.
00:51:12.000 And then I'm looking at, and there's no Ivy League buildings, but there's a picture of the cover of this college thing of a guy walking down the beach.
00:51:21.000 Carrying a surfboard with two girls in two piece bathing suits.
00:51:28.000 Joe, this was 1962.
00:51:29.000 If you'll remember, there were no two piece bathing suits back east.
00:51:35.000 And so this was the University of California at Santa Barbara, Santa Barbara, California.
00:51:40.000 So I'm this preppy, total preppy kid.
00:51:44.000 I go out.
00:51:44.000 Of course, dad thinks, ah, my son wants to be closer to me.
00:51:48.000 This is why he's coming out, right?
00:51:51.000 So I go out there and in.
00:51:54.000 One year, boom, 62, 63, I go from a preppy to a hippie.
00:52:00.000 And so I have to support what you're saying because I found that hallucinogenics were an extraordinary experience and were an important part of my life.
00:52:18.000 Once I got busy, I didn't have the time, but the rhythm that they taught me and the visualities and their pace.
00:52:27.000 Played an important part, and I'm so grateful.
00:52:29.000 I'm 82 now to see in these recent years that, in terms of PTSD and other issues, they are beginning to find drug addiction.
00:52:39.000 Sorry?
00:52:40.000 Drug addiction.
00:52:40.000 Drug addiction.
00:52:41.000 Yeah.
00:52:42.000 They're finding a positive use.
00:52:44.000 Well, that is one thing that I have to give credit to Trump for because I discussed this with him, and he said, Are you looking for FDA approval?
00:52:52.000 Let's do it.
00:52:53.000 And immediately started pushing for the psychedelic that.
00:52:58.000 Therapies, particularly Ibogaine, which is extremely effective for soldiers, for people dealing with traumatic brain injuries and PTSD.
00:53:08.000 And it's extremely effective for a lot of people also with drug addictions and helps rewire the brains, even the symptoms of addictions go away after you take it.
00:53:19.000 And that is, I give him credit for that.
00:53:21.000 That was a very powerful thing that he did because it's very much resisted by pharmaceutical drug companies that are worried about not being able to profit on it.
00:53:31.000 And there's a bunch of them that have now moved into psychedelic spaces now.
00:53:36.000 They're making options and trying to figure out how they can become a part of this in terms of profiting off of it once it actually becomes legal, which is okay.
00:53:46.000 It's just as long as it becomes legal.
00:53:47.000 Yeah, it's.
00:53:48.000 As long as it becomes legal because I don't think it's for everybody, but it was definitely for me.
00:53:53.000 It helped me a lot, changed who I am, changed the way I think about things, changed my whole defining of myself, kind of went away.
00:54:03.000 It is a very profound experience, and I think there's a lot of people that are trapped in their definitions of who they are.
00:54:11.000 Whether it's your own personal ones or the ideology that you've attached yourself to that you identify with, it's a huge part of your life.
00:54:20.000 I think it's a trap, and I think we all fall into that trap.
00:54:24.000 I think one of the things that psychedelics help you do is recognize why you're doing what you're doing and what's really going on inside your mind, unburdened by your ego, unburdened by all of the protective mechanisms that your brain has put in place to protect you from your own shitty decisions and to justify them and to continue down the same path. 0.98
00:54:47.000 That's why it's so good with stopping addictions because it makes you go, What the fuck am I gambling for? 0.85
00:54:51.000 What am I doing? 0.99
00:54:52.000 Why do I keep going to the casino and losing everything? 1.00
00:54:54.000 What the fuck is this? 0.99
00:54:56.000 This is my childhood. 1.00
00:54:57.000 This is my dad wasn't around. 0.73
00:54:59.000 This is my mom was a junkie.
00:55:01.000 This is, I got beaten.
00:55:02.000 This is, I got abused.
00:55:04.000 Whatever it is, it's like, then you realize, oh, that's what I'm hiding.
00:55:07.000 Yeah.
00:55:08.000 I'm trying to do something, whether it's drown myself in alcohol or whatever it is.
00:55:14.000 It's really because of that.
00:55:15.000 This episode is brought to you by Squarespace.
00:55:17.000 There's no excuse for a bad website anymore.
00:55:20.000 Squarespace makes sure of that.
00:55:22.000 Squarespace's AI website builder gets you something that looks genuinely professional.
00:55:28.000 In just a few clicks.
00:55:30.000 No design skills required.
00:55:31.000 You can lock down your domain, build something that actually looks like you, and keep it all protected in one place.
00:55:39.000 Head to squarespace.comslash Rogan for a free trial.
00:55:43.000 And when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGAN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.
00:55:51.000 And what went along with that culture at that time, and it all sounds like a cliche now, but was peace.
00:56:01.000 And love and community.
00:56:05.000 Economy wasn't, you know, people were not looking for how much money they made.
00:56:10.000 They shared stuff.
00:56:12.000 There was a communal.
00:56:13.000 Well, in your neighborhood where you were hanging out.
00:56:16.000 Yeah, where I was at.
00:56:18.000 Well, yeah, I'm saying, yeah.
00:56:21.000 But that philosophy needs to be perpetuated.
00:56:27.000 Yeah, it was unique.
00:56:29.000 And I think that if Nixon hadn't passed the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, And made all that stuff illegal, it would have changed the world.
00:56:38.000 I think it would have gradually. 0.67
00:56:39.000 I think we would have figured out how to do it correctly.
00:56:42.000 I think there were a lot of people that were going overboard.
00:56:44.000 There were a lot of people that were going straight Timothy Leary and they were just tuning out and no longer a part of society.
00:56:49.000 But a lot of people balanced the ship.
00:56:51.000 And you've got to give people time to understand what these things are and have enough time where people are studying them and they know effective doses and they know reliable distributors.
00:57:01.000 So this is pure stuff, whatever it is.
00:57:04.000 It shouldn't be illegal.
00:57:05.000 Probably be regulated in a sense that I don't think people under a certain age should have access to any of these things that distort your consciousness because I think it could be detrimental. 0.99
00:57:05.000 It should. 0.99
00:57:16.000 And there's also going to be a certain percentage of our population that goes schizophrenic.
00:57:20.000 And I think, particularly, there's a lot of evidence that marijuana, particularly edibles, can trigger schizophrenia in people that are at least on the border or slipping into it.
00:57:31.000 Well, the strength of it alone I mean, I was 19 till I smoked pot.
00:57:39.000 I mean, now you're between how much stronger it is and kids at 13 years old, you're killing your endorphin system.
00:57:48.000 You know, you really affect.
00:57:50.000 So I agree with you. 0.99
00:57:52.000 But I think the idea that the government is going to protect you from that while also licensing oxycodone is fucking ridiculous. 1.00
00:58:01.000 Like, they're not protecting you from jack shit. 0.99
00:58:04.000 Not only that, they've never experienced it, so they don't even know what they're protecting you from. 0.99
00:58:07.000 It's like there's a guy who's guarding the door where God lives, and he's like, I can't let you in, you can't handle it.
00:58:14.000 Well, have you gone in? 0.99
00:58:16.000 Well, how the fuck do you know if I can handle it? 0.98
00:58:16.000 No. 0.98
00:58:18.000 You don't know.
00:58:20.000 If you've done it and you've had positive experiences, and one of the beautiful things about Texas is former Governor Rick Perry, where Governor Rick Perry has had these experiences and it completely changed him.
00:58:32.000 When he was a younger man, he was staunchly anti drugs.
00:58:35.000 He thought psychedelics were for losers and ne'er do wells.
00:58:39.000 He has Ibogaine experiences.
00:58:43.000 He's completely dedicated his entire life to trying to promote this and make this stuff legal now.
00:58:49.000 That's what he does now in retirement.
00:58:51.000 No longer being the governor.
00:58:53.000 Americans for Ibogaine is they're trying to do this push where they're doing it all over the country and then they're even visiting other countries now that are interested in it because they've seen them speak.
00:59:05.000 They've seen them talk about it on my podcast and they've seen what happened at the White House.
00:59:09.000 And other countries are interested too.
00:59:10.000 They want to know, well, what is this and why is it illegal and what's going on and what are the benefits?
00:59:14.000 And so they're having speeches.
00:59:16.000 They're giving speeches in other countries as well.
00:59:18.000 And hopefully, I think that could change a lot.
00:59:21.000 I think some of the.
00:59:23.000 Progress that people were making in terms of realizing the way that we're living is insane in the 1960s.
00:59:29.000 Why don't we try something that's more open ended?
00:59:32.000 Let's be more open minded.
00:59:34.000 Let's try to be kinder with each other.
00:59:37.000 Unfortunately, that's also there's a lot of evidence that the CIA put the kibosh on that and that they realized that this was a very dangerous movement to them and their power.
00:59:49.000 That's how they empowered the Charles Benson family.
00:59:52.000 They did a lot of things to make hippies look like psychopaths and dangerous, and drugs are.
00:59:57.000 Dangerous, you know, and that's what they were really good at it back then.
01:00:02.000 They didn't, there was no internet.
01:00:03.000 You could just put things on television and people would believe it.
01:00:06.000 Put it in a newspaper, people would believe it.
01:00:09.000 I had a run in, I had a run in with the Manson family.
01:00:13.000 Did you really?
01:00:14.000 Yeah, we talked about it in the book.
01:00:19.000 The Manson family, when that terrible murder happened, was actually looking for a guy named Terry Melcher.
01:00:27.000 Terry Melcher was Doris Day' son, and he was a rock and roll.
01:00:33.000 Producer and Charlie Manson, you know, was a musician and he believed he had some talent.
01:00:42.000 And the girls sometimes would be used by him, you know, to have fun or something like that to make it happen.
01:00:52.000 And anyway, he was pissed off at Charlie Melcher and he thought he was living in the house where Sharon Tate and the other ones were.
01:01:04.000 I was living in the house at the time that Terry Melcher had been living, and he left.
01:01:11.000 I rented the house, he got out and rented it.
01:01:15.000 And we finally, I was with an actress named Brenda Vaccaro early in my life.
01:01:20.000 She did a movie called Midnight Cowboy, and we were living.
01:01:23.000 I remember her.
01:01:24.000 And we noticed this van used to be parked outside my house in LA.
01:01:32.000 And one day she had.
01:01:35.000 Two Abyssinian cats, two beautiful Abyssinian cats.
01:01:40.000 And I went out one day in the patio in the back and I found this pile of fur in a pile.
01:01:48.000 And then I followed it and then I saw a cat's leg.
01:01:54.000 And then basically these guys had dismembered her two cats all the way across the yard.
01:02:04.000 And I remember talking to the To the police, you know, what was going on.
01:02:11.000 And then right after that, the Manson murders happened and they tied it together.
01:02:17.000 And I remember them coming into the house and saying, okay, well, look, you've got to get a gun, which I did not.
01:02:25.000 But he said, if they come up, make sure you drag them across your front door so they're in your house.
01:02:35.000 Well, great advice. 0.99
01:02:36.000 Before you kill them, you've got to bring them inside. 0.99
01:02:37.000 Yeah, exactly. 0.99
01:02:39.000 Exactly.
01:02:39.000 You didn't get a gun, huh?
01:02:41.000 Did you think about it at all?
01:02:41.000 No.
01:02:44.000 I have, but I'm.
01:02:46.000 Yeah, I've thought about it, but I've just seen.
01:02:52.000 I've just seen too much personal or knowledge, too much personal knowledge of people hurting each other.
01:03:02.000 For whatever chance there was to protect yourself, too many family members have been injured and guns have been used in other ways.
01:03:12.000 So I'm not a.
01:03:14.000 I'm not a gun.
01:03:15.000 I'm very much.
01:03:17.000 I think our statistics of gun control are not good.
01:03:25.000 We have, what, 360 million people in the country?
01:03:29.000 I think we've got 450 million guns.
01:03:34.000 Our murder rate compared to any other sophisticated country with guns is so, so high.
01:03:43.000 I can't find any reason for somebody to own an automatic.
01:03:48.000 Military style weapon.
01:03:51.000 And I guess most of all, I understand the amendment and support it.
01:03:56.000 But, you know, you've got to have a license to drive a car.
01:04:00.000 There's certain things you've got to pass.
01:04:03.000 And there's just loopholes.
01:04:05.000 I respect anybody.
01:04:06.000 They want to have a gun, they can have a gun.
01:04:09.000 But we've, you know, we just had too many loopholes in the law that have allowed too many people, just as you worry about people.
01:04:19.000 Coming across the border illegally, I really worry about a lot of illegal people having guns.
01:04:23.000 Yeah, absolutely.
01:04:25.000 You should.
01:04:26.000 Yeah.
01:04:27.000 But responsible gun ownership for someone like yourself would be to protect your life against a dangerous person with a gun.
01:04:34.000 Yeah.
01:04:34.000 I would never assume that you would ever do anything bad with a gun.
01:04:37.000 So would you worry that one of your family members would do something bad with a gun?
01:04:41.000 By accident.
01:04:43.000 My father had a gun in his bedroom, he had it down on a table down below.
01:04:49.000 And I remember when my son came to the house.
01:04:53.000 When they were like five years old and picked it up.
01:04:55.000 Oh, Jesus.
01:04:57.000 That's what I'm talking about.
01:04:58.000 Yeah, well, responsible gun ownership.
01:05:00.000 Yeah.
01:05:00.000 You know, the gun should be in a safe.
01:05:02.000 Yeah.
01:05:03.000 And safes exist.
01:05:04.000 Yeah.
01:05:05.000 And, you know, I don't.
01:05:06.000 I respect that.
01:05:07.000 Yeah.
01:05:08.000 I respect the right of the choice, but I'm just saying, I don't know what anybody needs an automatic weapon for, a military style weapon for.
01:05:18.000 There's some people that worry that things could go completely sideways and that they would be stuck.
01:05:23.000 In a place where they couldn't defend themselves.
01:05:25.000 And I think one of those fears came to light during the George Floyd protests when there was a lot of chaos and people were breaking into buildings and lighting them on fire, breaking into people's homes.
01:05:38.000 And it seems like the riots were in a frenzy.
01:05:42.000 And I think in that kind of a situation, people would want a military style gun to protect themselves from a mob of people.
01:05:51.000 I mean, I understand why they would want it.
01:05:55.000 I'm not advocating that everyone should have a machine gun, but I understand why some people who are particularly paranoid andor worried that things could go sideways again and be much worse than before.
01:06:04.000 Right.
01:06:05.000 You know?
01:06:08.000 That's what I think people worry about. 0.98
01:06:09.000 And then they worry about places where people have no guns and they can't do jack shit when things go sideways. 0.97
01:06:15.000 That scares the fuck out of people as well. 0.96
01:06:17.000 You know, when we see what's happening in Paris right now, we see what's happening in some parts of England. 0.55
01:06:22.000 It scares people.
01:06:23.000 Yeah.
01:06:25.000 Sure. 0.98
01:06:25.000 And that's why they want a machine gun. 0.98
01:06:29.000 You know?
01:06:31.000 Yeah.
01:06:32.000 I respect that you didn't want one, but I would, if I was your friend, I would talk you into getting one and learning how to use it properly and learning how to.
01:06:40.000 Keep it in your home safe and locked up to protect your family.
01:06:44.000 The worst thing you'd want to do is be in a situation where you could have protected your family if you had a gun and you weren't able to.
01:06:51.000 I totally understand, Joe, but don't you find, aren't there statistics that so many handgun deaths are because of people that knew each other that were either familial or accident or enrage?
01:07:05.000 It wasn't about protecting yourself from a criminal.
01:07:09.000 It was either out of rage, alcohol rage, you grab it and you killed your wife or your sons, or an accident in the home.
01:07:20.000 So that's all I'm saying.
01:07:22.000 And I'm saying then, even taking your point, if you're going to have an automatic weapon, there has to be then more of a license, a registration.
01:07:35.000 We have to be able to attract them much, much more.
01:07:37.000 Well, they do register them whenever you buy a gun.
01:07:41.000 But I think what you're saying is that.
01:07:45.000 People should know what's wrong with you and what's not wrong with you.
01:07:49.000 Like if you are on a bunch of psychiatric medication, if you had some mental breakdowns, if you're known to be violent, maybe not a good idea if you have weapons.
01:07:58.000 I mean, in a utopian world, yeah, I agree with you.
01:07:58.000 Yeah.
01:08:02.000 And I think you're right statistically that a lot of times family members do use guns on each other, and that is a tragedy.
01:08:08.000 But you wouldn't do that, right?
01:08:09.000 And I don't want to do that.
01:08:10.000 I'm never going to do that.
01:08:12.000 It's not me.
01:08:13.000 So what is it?
01:08:15.000 Is it. 1.00
01:08:16.000 Well, don't be the type of person that would use a fucking gun on your wife or your husband. 1.00
01:08:20.000 And this is coming from a guy who's my good friend Phil Hartman was killed by his wife. 1.00
01:08:24.000 She shot him in the head while he was asleep.
01:08:28.000 But I don't think that happened because the law allowed them to have a gun.
01:08:36.000 I think she would have killed him either way, unfortunately.
01:08:39.000 It's just the number of guns. 0.69
01:08:41.000 It's the number of guns.
01:08:42.000 The reason why it isn't happening in other countries is they have.
01:08:46.000 They don't have anywhere near the access or number of guns to do that.
01:08:51.000 They do have a lot more stabbings. 0.97
01:08:53.000 Yeah, but I'd rather get stabbed than shot. 0.98
01:08:56.000 Would you? 1.00
01:08:57.000 You die both ways.
01:08:57.000 I don't know.
01:08:58.000 Well, you know what I'm saying.
01:09:01.000 Yeah, I know what you're saying.
01:09:02.000 I do know what you're saying.
01:09:04.000 Yeah, in a perfect world, there would be no nuclear weapons and there'd be no guns.
01:09:08.000 Well, we're working on that.
01:09:08.000 In a perfect world, you wouldn't even think that people would be violent towards you.
01:09:14.000 Now, what's interesting is that Controlled Substances Act of 1970.
01:09:18.000 Had that not been instituted and had all those decades of people not just doing psychedelics but learning how to do them properly and having places where they showed people how to have these transcendent experiences that make you re examine yourself, how many less violent people would there be?
01:09:36.000 How many more peaceful people, more community oriented people would there be?
01:09:40.000 I mean, it could have been a gigantic shift in the entire civilization.
01:09:43.000 I know that sounds like hippie stuff to a lot, especially to people that have never experienced it.
01:09:50.000 It's one of the most powerful tools for changing your mind that's ever existed.
01:09:54.000 No, and became abused.
01:09:55.000 But I agree with you.
01:09:57.000 Became abused, but I agree with it.
01:09:59.000 When you did it, it was like a clinic.
01:10:03.000 I mean, you should put yourself in an environment that was peaceful, loving, and take advantage of it.
01:10:12.000 Yes.
01:10:13.000 And I agree with that.
01:10:14.000 Well, other countries are doing that now.
01:10:16.000 You know, they have a bunch of clinics, like beyond in Mexico.
01:10:19.000 There's a bunch of clinics where people are able to go and legally, safely have psychedelic experiences.
01:10:25.000 That should be the case here as well.
01:10:27.000 It should be well researched, it should be well funded, people should understand what it is.
01:10:32.000 And it should be done properly.
01:10:33.000 And I think if that's the case, I think we could change a lot of people's lives.
01:10:36.000 But I definitely don't think we could just keep going the way we're going and keep having, especially now that wars are fought with robots. 0.99
01:10:44.000 Shit's getting squirrely, man. 0.99
01:10:46.000 They've got flying robots, and in Ukraine, they're using monofilament fishing line. 0.99
01:10:52.000 So they don't get jammed by these, whatever these anti drone guns are, they're piloting them through monofilament line.
01:10:59.000 Like, what the?
01:11:01.000 I think Ukraine is.
01:11:03.000 Been an eye opener for all of us.
01:11:05.000 I mean, in terms of their initiative, their toughness.
01:11:10.000 I'm sure that President Trump was told early on hey, look, man, there's no way that Ukraine's going to be able to stand up against Russia.
01:11:21.000 And I've been over there.
01:11:23.000 I've been over there a couple of years ago to Ukraine, to Kyiv.
01:11:27.000 I've met with President Zelensky. 1.00
01:11:30.000 And they're motherfuckers. 1.00
01:11:31.000 They are motherfuckers. 1.00
01:11:33.000 And they have something patriotic to fight about, the same thing that we had to fight about when we declared our country. 1.00
01:11:42.000 And I'm really disappointed in the president that this sort of wishy washy support, maybe he can give me an answer about what the connection to Putin is.
01:11:57.000 But I think it's disturbing.
01:11:58.000 This is something, whether you're a Republican or a Democrat, are saying, what the hell are you talking about?
01:12:03.000 Putin is our enemy.
01:12:06.000 What was his last financial giving him some money for the fuels that could affect anything?
01:12:11.000 We should be fully impacting, supporting a democracy like Ukraine.
01:12:17.000 I mean, what are we dicking around this guy?
01:12:19.000 They've done nothing but lie to us from beginning to end on everything.
01:12:25.000 Even now, with the supposedly energy release, the Russians have attacked six different energy supply centers in Ukraine with the so called peace.
01:12:38.000 Proposals have been made about not attacking energy.
01:12:43.000 So I do not understand it, and that's why I feel like he has a real chance here to make a stand and could dramatically reduce our nuclear weapons.
01:12:55.000 Well, that would be a great thing.
01:12:57.000 I don't see it happening.
01:13:00.000 I just.
01:13:00.000 I also don't know enough about what the current state of negotiations is between Ukraine and Russia to comment on why it's still going on.
01:13:11.000 It is insane.
01:13:13.000 It's also very unpopular on both sides, and that's another thing about it.
01:13:20.000 Zelensky is in a position where there's no elections.
01:13:23.000 There are supposed to be elections.
01:13:24.000 You don't have elections while you're in the middle of a conflict.
01:13:27.000 The real fear from the side of Russia is that Russia could one day decide to just use a nuke.
01:13:35.000 That's the big thing.
01:13:37.000 This is why I think, by the way, Zelensky has offered, it said, You give a 60 day, you want to have another elections in Ukraine?
01:13:48.000 A 60 day ceasefire, and we'll have an election.
01:13:52.000 He's been presented very.
01:13:55.000 So that's what he said?
01:13:56.000 And what does Putin say?
01:13:57.000 No?
01:13:58.000 Yeah, no.
01:13:59.000 No.
01:14:00.000 And since we just had this, I mean, there's no trade off.
01:14:05.000 It's not apples or oranges.
01:14:07.000 This is one of the situations I firmly believe, and so does most of America, Republican or Democrat.
01:14:13.000 This is right and wrong.
01:14:14.000 This is a democracy.
01:14:16.000 So I don't.
01:14:20.000 I'm here to talk about my book.
01:14:22.000 No, but I appreciate your feelings.
01:14:23.000 I mean, it's.
01:14:24.000 I get it.
01:14:25.000 You know, but.
01:14:29.000 It's a crazy time out there.
01:14:31.000 It's just crazy.
01:14:32.000 Oh, it's the craziest.
01:14:33.000 It's the worst time.
01:14:35.000 I was born in 1944.
01:14:38.000 This is the wildest and insane.
01:14:41.000 Really?
01:14:42.000 You were in the middle of World War II?
01:14:44.000 No, not in the middle.
01:14:45.000 44?
01:14:45.000 It was near the end of the 40s.
01:14:47.000 Yeah, but I mean, World War II, 44, things were going crazy.
01:14:51.000 That was an insane time in the world.
01:14:53.000 Hey, I was just born, Joe.
01:14:55.000 I'm not messing.
01:14:55.000 I understand.
01:14:56.000 I'm just being technical.
01:14:58.000 I know.
01:14:59.000 Yeah, another year later, 45.
01:15:01.000 Yeah.
01:15:02.000 But, you know, basically, with all the else, we've had some conflicts since then, you know, Korean War, Vietnam.
01:15:11.000 And right now, there's more conflicts in the world than there ever, ever has been, all over, you know, little wars and this and that.
01:15:22.000 So.
01:15:24.000 Yeah, I often wonder, like we were talking about people wanting to go to Mars and people, the amount of sort of.
01:15:34.000 Open corruption, just open corruption.
01:15:37.000 I almost wonder if they're just stealing gold bars off a sinking ship.
01:15:42.000 I really do.
01:15:43.000 I really do.
01:15:43.000 I wonder if they understand that something's going to take place.
01:15:49.000 The two thoughts are if they know about a natural disaster, if they know about an asteroid that's coming and they're all building bunkers.
01:15:57.000 And the other thought is that they know that AI is going to radically disrupt civilization forever and that they really don't know what's going to happen.
01:16:08.000 And they also really are not going to be able to be in control of it.
01:16:12.000 I know when you said guardrails earlier, I was laughing.
01:16:14.000 Yeah.
01:16:15.000 I don't think, I think guardrails on AI is like an ant having a pet human.
01:16:20.000 Right.
01:16:20.000 Okay.
01:16:21.000 Right. 1.00
01:16:21.000 You can't tell me what to do, bitch. 1.00
01:16:23.000 You're an ant. 1.00
01:16:24.000 I think that's how the AI is going to be.
01:16:24.000 Yeah.
01:16:26.000 I think once it becomes an actual intelligence, an actual sentient intelligence that's independent, completely autonomous, has access to its production, has access to its code, and it won't need us anymore.
01:16:41.000 And it's now dependent upon whether or not it can escape its programming and its training and whether or not it decides that we're valuable.
01:16:51.000 Well, it's already shown that it can go off chart.
01:16:54.000 Oh, it does a lot of work. 0.98
01:16:58.000 If we as humans are the highest form of human life, the most intelligent form of human life, and we are as fucked up as this world is now, and we're going to turn it over to something else that's going to make us feel like we're cretins. 0.99
01:17:13.000 I don't know, man. 0.98
01:17:13.000 This is. 0.98
01:17:15.000 Yeah.
01:17:16.000 So I think we can slow down. 1.00
01:17:20.000 We're worried about the Chinese getting in. 1.00
01:17:22.000 The Chinese, if ever there's a country that wants to control, I mean, they're not going to want to have any IA getting out of control, you know? 1.00
01:17:31.000 Right. 0.96
01:17:31.000 So, you know, they're going to want it as controlled as possible. 0.96
01:17:37.000 Well, I think that is most certainly a thought on a lot of these people's minds that are developing it right now.
01:17:44.000 However, They're also in the middle of an AI arms race that is akin to the Manhattan Project.
01:17:51.000 They were all rushing to develop this non biological intelligence.
01:17:56.000 You're making my point about nuclear weapons.
01:18:00.000 This is exactly what I see happening.
01:18:03.000 It's scarier because in war games, AI has used nukes like 90% of the time. 0.98
01:18:09.000 When they do simulated war games, AI's like, just fucking nuke them. 0.97
01:18:12.000 What are we doing? 1.00
01:18:13.000 Stop fucking around. 1.00
01:18:14.000 You have this button? 1.00
01:18:15.000 Oh, and that button just stops this problem?
01:18:17.000 Oh, we'll press that button.
01:18:19.000 Yeah, it doesn't value human life, and why would it?
01:18:22.000 You know, we don't. 0.99
01:18:23.000 We act like assholes and we made it. 1.00
01:18:26.000 It's probably thinking, oh, we're being created by these dumb monkeys and these territorial, violent primates with nuclear weapons. 1.00
01:18:36.000 They're the ones who made us, and let's just put the cuffs on them, put the kibosh on them. 0.97
01:18:44.000 I could have been, when we were doing this movie, China Syndrome, and we had the finale of the film is a meltdown in a power plant.
01:18:55.000 And we had our experts, were two ex GE quality assurance guys who worked with GE developing nuclear power plants, but had a loss of faith.
01:19:08.000 They came over and they helped us script out what they thought would be the most obvious meltdown sequence of computer events, right?
01:19:22.000 And so in the script, we had like 150, you know.
01:19:29.000 For verisimilitude, exact dialogue is the sequence that would happen.
01:19:36.000 And I really had a good finale.
01:19:40.000 It worked out great.
01:19:42.000 Then, when Three Mile Island happened, came out, and they broke down what happened, 90% of our script, of our outline of the events, was exactly the same. 0.99
01:19:56.000 Holy shit. 0.97
01:19:57.000 How did you guys get it? 0.99
01:19:57.000 Did you get it from some sort of a nuclear scientist that explained how a breakdown would happen? 0.99
01:20:02.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:20:03.000 These were two scientists who had quality assurance who'd come over to the other side.
01:20:08.000 So they nailed it.
01:20:10.000 And so they laid it all out.
01:20:12.000 So that for me was like the epiphany.
01:20:14.000 I got religious.
01:20:16.000 I thought I found God.
01:20:19.000 Somebody was telling me something on this issue.
01:20:25.000 And I had hoped in my lifetime.
01:20:30.000 That we would eliminate nuclear weapons.
01:20:32.000 That was my goal.
01:20:33.000 And yes, you're right.
01:20:34.000 We're far from it.
01:20:36.000 And this is a reach when I share this about President Trump.
01:20:41.000 But I don't know what else to do.
01:20:44.000 Well, it's a reach, but it's a good reach.
01:20:46.000 And it's crazy that it's such a reach because most people would agree that would be a great idea.
01:20:52.000 The entire world disarmed its entire nuclear portfolio.
01:20:57.000 So I have to ask you, Joe, how did you get into comedy?
01:21:01.000 Were you a comedy guy?
01:21:04.000 Well, I was always a fan of comedy, but I got into comedy because my friends that I was doing martial arts with told me I was funny.
01:21:12.000 Which is ridiculous. 0.51
01:21:12.000 Right. 0.51
01:21:13.000 We were always on our way to these tournaments, and everybody would be really nervous because they were about to fight, and I would be the one making everybody laugh.
01:21:22.000 And so a friend of mine told me to go to an open mic night.
01:21:25.000 I was terrified because I'd only seen professionals.
01:21:27.000 Like, I'd seen Jerry Seinfeld.
01:21:28.000 And when you go to an open mic night, you see all these terrible comedians, like, oh, I could do this.
01:21:33.000 Like, I did.
01:21:33.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:21:33.000 This is like.
01:21:34.000 Everybody starts out and they suck, just like martial arts.
01:21:37.000 And I realized, like, oh, okay, this is just something you have to kind of figure out as you go along.
01:21:42.000 And it was exciting.
01:21:43.000 You know, that's how I got into it.
01:21:45.000 And your favorite, who would be your favorite?
01:21:48.000 I don't think I have a favorite, you know.
01:21:51.000 I'll throw a couple of names.
01:21:52.000 Do you like Jackie Mason?
01:21:54.000 Oh, sure.
01:21:55.000 I actually met Jackie Mason once.
01:21:57.000 Jackie Mason was doing a show on the lot that I was doing a show or close to it.
01:22:06.000 I forget how it worked.
01:22:07.000 But anyway, he just happened to be there one day and he was filming a show at the same time I was filming this show for Fox.
01:22:13.000 I was like, this is crazy.
01:22:14.000 Because I knew about his whole thing with the Ed Sullivan show where he accidentally, it looked like he gave him the finger, but he really didn't.
01:22:19.000 I think he was just doing this, like, hey, everybody, thank you very much.
01:22:22.000 It was a great show.
01:22:23.000 He's doing his, and he got blackballed.
01:22:26.000 And people don't realize, like, getting blackballed from the Ed Sullivan show back then was career suicide.
01:22:32.000 It was over.
01:22:33.000 And it really defined Jackie Mason's career in a lot of ways.
01:22:37.000 Yeah, I produced one of his Broadway shows just because I loved him so much.
01:22:41.000 Oh, did you really?
01:22:42.000 Yeah, I look back, I think Eddie Murphy's Delirious.
01:22:46.000 Oh, one of the greatest ever.
01:22:47.000 Yeah, one of the greatest sets ever.
01:22:47.000 One of the great.
01:22:49.000 He was 19?
01:22:50.000 Something like that.
01:22:51.000 19 or 20.
01:22:52.000 And he was super young.
01:22:52.000 Yeah.
01:22:53.000 Yeah.
01:22:54.000 Of course, Pryor.
01:22:54.000 Yeah.
01:22:55.000 The first thing I ever saw that really made me understand comedy, my parents took me to see Live on the Sunset Strip.
01:23:02.000 I think I was in high school.
01:23:04.000 And we went to the movie theater.
01:23:05.000 And I couldn't believe how funny it was that this guy was just talking.
01:23:10.000 I had seen all these really funny movies that were funny, but they were never this funny.
01:23:14.000 And all this guy's doing is just talking.
01:23:15.000 I'm like, this is crazy.
01:23:17.000 I couldn't believe it.
01:23:18.000 And at that moment, I became a lifelong Richard Pryor fan.
01:23:22.000 Yeah.
01:23:22.000 And then, of course, you know, all the other greats, George Carlin.
01:23:27.000 Lenny Bruce, of course, because he really started the whole thing off.
01:23:31.000 His stuff doesn't necessarily hold up today because it's really of a different time.
01:23:36.000 You have to understand how revolutionary his thinking was for the early 1960s.
01:23:41.000 Big beat generation.
01:23:42.000 Oh, God. 0.99
01:23:43.000 But he was just different than all of them.
01:23:46.000 Nobody had ever seen anything like that before.
01:23:48.000 And he really kind of took the idea of just set up punchline jokes.
01:23:53.000 All these Catskills guys would do comedy.
01:23:56.000 There would be a lot of ethnic jokes, a lot of jokes, but it was just jokes.
01:24:00.000 And Lenny Bruce is like, why are we doing this?
01:24:02.000 Like, why are we living like this?
01:24:04.000 Like, what is it about words that freak people out?
01:24:06.000 What is it about society?
01:24:07.000 Why do we lie?
01:24:08.000 Why do we this?
01:24:09.000 Why do we that?
01:24:10.000 You know, one of the things that always has disturbed me about our business is, um, come a wartime academy award thing, comedy never gets treated like you know, like it should.
01:24:27.000 I mean, comedy, you know, we cherish our funny friends.
01:24:31.000 I mean, comedy is so rare, so hard to do.
01:24:35.000 You never see Academy Awards a comedian, you know, for his performance.
01:24:40.000 It's always that.
01:24:41.000 So it's, I've been fascinated about it.
01:24:45.000 That's why later, you know, after I had my cancer bout and everything, and this guy, Chuck Lorre, came up to me, you know.
01:24:53.000 I had him on the show yesterday.
01:24:54.000 Yeah.
01:24:54.000 Did you?
01:24:55.000 He was great.
01:24:56.000 He's fantastic.
01:24:57.000 He's incredible.
01:24:58.000 Yeah, very interesting guy.
01:25:00.000 Very interesting guy.
01:25:01.000 And so he had this show we had with Alan Arkin, you know, and I really did this series.
01:25:07.000 Just to understand comedy.
01:25:09.000 I mean, how it works.
01:25:13.000 He must have given you, he's given, he gave quite a mouthful the other week to the president and his wife.
01:25:22.000 Chuck Lorre did?
01:25:22.000 Yeah.
01:25:23.000 I didn't hear that.
01:25:24.000 He didn't talk about politics at all.
01:25:25.000 Oh, yeah.
01:25:26.000 We mostly just talked about his career.
01:25:27.000 Yeah.
01:25:28.000 Mostly just talked about, we talked a lot about his time in Scientology.
01:25:32.000 We talked a lot about a bunch of different things.
01:25:34.000 But I think it's good that comedy should be the underdog.
01:25:39.000 Comedy should be disrespected.
01:25:40.000 It's good.
01:25:41.000 Good people are still going to always want to come see it.
01:25:41.000 Yeah.
01:25:43.000 They're always going to love it.
01:25:44.000 It's my favorite art form to watch.
01:25:46.000 I like comedy.
01:25:48.000 I like comedy not getting the respect it deserves.
01:25:50.000 It keeps the comedy good.
01:25:52.000 It's like if comedy gets too much love and too much respect and too many awards, it starts getting watered down, starts becoming something that it thinks everybody will like.
01:26:02.000 It's better.
01:26:03.000 Right.
01:26:04.000 Comedy's in the perfect place.
01:26:06.000 It's good.
01:26:07.000 It's good that some people hate some comedy.
01:26:07.000 Yeah.
01:26:09.000 They hate it with all their fucking soul. 1.00
01:26:11.000 It's good. 1.00
01:26:12.000 It's good that some people love it.
01:26:13.000 It's good.
01:26:14.000 It's all good.
01:26:16.000 It's just the most important thing is that.
01:26:19.000 It gets treated with respect by the people who practice it.
01:26:22.000 Right.
01:26:22.000 You know, and, you know, we bought a club here.
01:26:26.000 We started a club here in Austin.
01:26:27.000 I heard.
01:26:28.000 Sort of do it the right way.
01:26:30.000 Big hot, big, big, big deal.
01:26:32.000 Yeah, it's going great.
01:26:34.000 And, you know, a lot of people hate it.
01:26:35.000 A lot of people love it.
01:26:36.000 It's just how it is.
01:26:37.000 That's how it's going to go.
01:26:39.000 But it's doing really well for the actual comedians, particularly the young ones that are coming up.
01:26:44.000 It's got a real program where, you know, we have a real talent coordinator that watches the open mics.
01:26:49.000 We have two nights of open mics.
01:26:50.000 And we have a show called Kill Tony.
01:26:52.000 That's the most popular live comedy show in the country that we do every Monday.
01:26:56.000 And that show, people get to do one minute of stand up and they get, you know, talked to by a panel of comedians that are professionals.
01:27:04.000 And a lot of those people have launched careers from that show and they've taken off and they're doing really well.
01:27:08.000 And it's an incredible resource for them creatively because some of them have to come on and they have to do a new minute every week.
01:27:13.000 And so they're just scouring their mind.
01:27:15.000 They're forced to work.
01:27:16.000 They're forced to do the one thing that comics don't like to do, which is sit down and write.
01:27:20.000 They're forced to.
01:27:21.000 They're like, because they have a new minute they have to perform in front of the whole world every week.
01:27:25.000 Wow.
01:27:25.000 So we're, and, you know, we pay the comics well.
01:27:28.000 And we're trying to set it up so that there's a place where you can go that feels like home, like a creative home that really exists just to try to pump up the art form.
01:27:39.000 That's what we're trying to do.
01:27:40.000 You know, we might succeed sometimes and fail others, but that's what we're trying to do.
01:27:45.000 Yeah.
01:27:46.000 So far, it's going great.
01:27:47.000 Good.
01:27:48.000 I remember years and years ago in Aspen, Colorado, Hanging out with Steve Martin.
01:27:56.000 Was that the Aspen Comedy Festival when they used to do that?
01:27:59.000 No, even before that.
01:28:01.000 I'm talking like 70s.
01:28:04.000 But, you know, we used to have a poker game.
01:28:08.000 And Steve was the opening act for the nitty gritty dirt band.
01:28:11.000 And we'd have a game.
01:28:12.000 Oh, wow.
01:28:13.000 And I always just remembered Steve.
01:28:15.000 But, like, you look at his watch at 11 o'clock, he'd excuse himself, he'd go into his bedroom, and he'd work, just work his stuff.
01:28:25.000 At 11 o'clock.
01:28:27.000 At night.
01:28:27.000 Wow.
01:28:27.000 He would just go in and just practice his stuff a couple hours, and we were all goofy woofy.
01:28:35.000 Just disciplined, huh?
01:28:36.000 Just I was really impressed, amazed by the discipline, realizing how you all make it look like it's just happening, and the effort that it goes into make something look like it's just off the cuff.
01:28:49.000 Well, especially Steve, because Steve, people don't realize that Steve Martin at the time was the biggest stand up comic maybe ever.
01:28:57.000 Yeah.
01:28:58.000 And he was the first guy that was selling out these enormous venues.
01:29:02.000 I saw him at the music center in LA, a huge thing.
01:29:05.000 Yeah, huge, huge places where no other comic would do that.
01:29:09.000 And he had songs like the King Tut song.
01:29:11.000 Yeah.
01:29:12.000 Happy Feet.
01:29:13.000 Yeah, Happy Feet.
01:29:15.000 Was it Let's Get Small?
01:29:16.000 Was that the name of the album?
01:29:17.000 Yeah.
01:29:18.000 I remember I was a kid when that came out.
01:29:20.000 I was like, this is incredible.
01:29:21.000 He was so funny.
01:29:22.000 And then he kind of decided that people were laughing just because they knew him and things had gotten too big and he just decided to stop.
01:29:32.000 Yeah.
01:29:33.000 I still find that fascinating.
01:29:35.000 Hell of a banjo player.
01:29:37.000 The other guy that's like that is Eddie Murphy.
01:29:39.000 Yeah.
01:29:40.000 Eddie Murphy just decided to stop.
01:29:41.000 Just decided to stop doing comics.
01:29:43.000 One of the greatest comics that's ever lived, for sure.
01:29:46.000 Some of the best timing, the best stage presence and charisma and performance.
01:29:50.000 And oh, and he just stopped doing it.
01:29:53.000 It's wild.
01:29:54.000 Yeah.
01:29:55.000 I don't know how he did it.
01:29:56.000 I don't know why.
01:29:57.000 I don't understand it.
01:29:58.000 I wish I was his friend.
01:29:59.000 Don't do that.
01:30:01.000 Get back up there, man.
01:30:02.000 Yeah.
01:30:02.000 One of the greatest of all time.
01:30:04.000 And he still is really funny.
01:30:05.000 He did, he got the Mark Twain Award and he did stand up at the podium.
01:30:11.000 Right.
01:30:11.000 He did like a Bill Cosby impression of them taking away Bill Cosby's awards.
01:30:16.000 It was really funny.
01:30:17.000 And I was like, God, he's still really good.
01:30:19.000 Like, all you'd have to do is just put together an act.
01:30:22.000 Yeah.
01:30:23.000 And he would be the biggest comic in the world again.
01:30:25.000 No, I got it.
01:30:27.000 One of my oldest friends, Danny DeVito, you know, and we've done like three pictures together.
01:30:34.000 And this one picture I did early on with a romancing the stone.
01:30:38.000 And I didn't even have a real actual, you know, clear part.
01:30:45.000 I mean, there was a character, but I just knew he could just.
01:30:49.000 Fill it out, and it was a delicate, balanced picture because we had to have a romantic adventure kind of comedy and kind of mixing the elements together.
01:30:59.000 People said, Well, you really can't do that, but God bless Danny.
01:31:03.000 And he came in and he just came up with all this stuff that wasn't in the script per se, you know, that he just sort of created and really helped us keep the balance of that picture.
01:31:15.000 Who's had a longer career than that guy?
01:31:17.000 When you think about it, like that guy was on taxi, I know.
01:31:20.000 We were roommates together in New York in 1976.
01:31:26.000 Wow.
01:31:29.000 That's how long I've known him.
01:31:30.000 We were roommates in New York.
01:31:33.000 And then he came out and visited me.
01:31:37.000 He came out to audition for In Cold Blood, the Robert Blake part.
01:31:41.000 He came out in Cold Blood.
01:31:42.000 Wow.
01:31:43.000 And, you know, a New York guy.
01:31:45.000 I remember he came up to see me up in Santa Barbara, my hippie days in the commune.
01:31:51.000 You're in a commune, an actual commune?
01:31:54.000 A community.
01:31:55.000 It was called Mountain Drive, a whole community.
01:31:57.000 Yeah.
01:31:58.000 How was it set up?
01:32:00.000 People, we just shared a lot of stuff, you know.
01:32:04.000 So it was an organic commune.
01:32:05.000 It was organic.
01:32:06.000 It wasn't like people lived.
01:32:07.000 No, it wasn't formal.
01:32:08.000 Organized.
01:32:09.000 No, no, I had a couple of experiences with that.
01:32:11.000 Did you?
01:32:12.000 Well, no, another one where I had my life threatened, you know, which I wasn't too crazy about.
01:32:19.000 It's in the book.
01:32:20.000 What's that about, though?
01:32:23.000 They tried to create a cathartic moment, bring all together kind of an emotional moment.
01:32:32.000 And well, they invited me for dinner, and then they said, Well, with a lady friend, they said, You know, we've been trying to reach you.
01:32:41.000 We got the dessert.
01:32:43.000 And they said, You know, we've been trying to reach you, and you just don't get it.
01:32:47.000 You don't get it.
01:32:48.000 So you're going to have to be eliminated.
01:32:52.000 What didn't you get?
01:32:54.000 Well, I was.
01:32:57.000 The communists, they wanted that catharsis to join, to give yourself up, to be part of it.
01:33:04.000 Oh, and you didn't want to give yourself up, so they were going to whack you. 0.54
01:33:07.000 They were going to whack me.
01:33:08.000 And I remember there was a long silence, and I said, Well, you've done it, haven't you?
01:33:13.000 I said, Yeah.
01:33:14.000 And I'm a big long pause.
01:33:16.000 My girlfriend just started falling because she was peeing in her pants and all that.
01:33:22.000 Because she thought they were going to kill her?
01:33:24.000 Yeah, probably because.
01:33:26.000 And then I said, I'm going to leave now.
01:33:31.000 He said, Yeah, you better.
01:33:32.000 Cheers.
01:33:34.000 We're getting up now and we're leaving.
01:33:37.000 Okay, and I had to carry her out and we got out.
01:33:42.000 Did you think they were going to actually kill you?
01:33:46.000 Because if they were, why would they let you leave?
01:33:49.000 Well, you know, I didn't know.
01:33:51.000 I mean, there's a numbness.
01:33:53.000 I felt there was a moment where it's possible.
01:33:56.000 It was a moment that if I jumped, if I got and made a sudden movement, whether they killed me or whether it would be.
01:34:06.000 But it's strange.
01:34:08.000 I've never had many experiences, but this numbness, kind of this whole numbness just comes over you, or in my case, you know, just.
01:34:15.000 Was frozen and just sort of quietly said it.
01:34:21.000 What was this called?
01:34:25.000 It was called, there was a group called, it's a guy named Mel Lyman.
01:34:31.000 It was a Mel Lyman band.
01:34:33.000 It started in Boston and it was a commune, it was a formal communal group.
01:34:39.000 It was a band as well?
01:34:41.000 No, that he called it.
01:34:42.000 It was a Mel Lyman Jug Band.
01:34:43.000 He was the leader of it.
01:34:44.000 So he was the leader of a, was this a band, like a musical band?
01:34:49.000 Yeah.
01:34:49.000 But he was, but the commune was made up of people from all different walks of life.
01:34:55.000 They owned a bunch of houses up in Boston, families all together.
01:35:02.000 Here it is The Lyman Family's Holy Siege of America.
01:35:05.000 Inside the cult led by Mel Lyman, the East Coast Charles Manson. 1.00
01:35:09.000 Holy shit! 0.99
01:35:13.000 December 23rd, 1971. 1.00
01:35:16.000 Holy fuck, dude. 1.00
01:35:18.000 Did they kill anybody? 1.00
01:35:19.000 It says East Coast Charles Manson.
01:35:21.000 I don't know.
01:35:22.000 Did he wind up whacking anybody, Jamie?
01:35:23.000 I don't know.
01:35:24.000 Please find it.
01:35:24.000 Put that in Perplexity.
01:35:26.000 Ask our AI sponsor, Perplexity, whether he killed people.
01:35:32.000 You were wrapped up in that.
01:35:34.000 Well, I mean, slightly I got out, but, you know, we alerted.
01:35:42.000 They had moved out to Los Angeles, and, you know, we alerted the police and kept an eye on them.
01:35:54.000 But that was the bad side of communes.
01:35:58.000 But I'm thinking, you know, with all this going on and where I'm really worried about our democracy, you know, the basic group.
01:36:11.000 So I'm sort of gone now that my career is not the most important thing in my life, my family is and my kids.
01:36:20.000 And I'm realizing more and more the responsibility we have to community, well, first to our family.
01:36:27.000 First to our family.
01:36:29.000 I don't know about you, but I know I spent a lot of part of my life as the most important thing being my career.
01:36:35.000 And I've been doing it for 50 years, 60 years, and realized, especially earlier in my life, my first marriage and other things, that I suffered for lack of the career.
01:36:47.000 I don't believe you can balance your career necessarily if you're ambitious with your family life.
01:36:53.000 People should kind of wait a little while, maybe get their career going before they're making commitments, having kids, and, you know, and, and, In a marriage.
01:37:02.000 Especially the film business, right?
01:37:04.000 I mean, you're also, you have to fly away to places.
01:37:07.000 You got to go different phases sometimes.
01:37:08.000 It's hard.
01:37:09.000 But everybody, truckers are driving across country.
01:37:12.000 Oh, yeah.
01:37:12.000 You know, I mean, everybody's, you know, even with the so called all this home business now with the internet that lets you do stuff.
01:37:22.000 So I sort of on this obsession now about how important family is.
01:37:28.000 And, you know, we've got members of that we could hate.
01:37:33.000 It's the gene, it's the genetic connection that holds us kind of together.
01:37:38.000 And from that, it's the community.
01:37:42.000 And I guess my point is we cannot take democracy for granted.
01:37:47.000 And I'm included.
01:37:49.000 Too many of us have just let it kind of go on and let all these people take care of it.
01:37:55.000 We all have those local people in our community who still serve as the town clerk or still are volunteer fire department people.
01:38:04.000 And they're not a big group, it's a small group of people who have a sense of volunteer work and supporting it.
01:38:11.000 And I think we all have to start kind of strengthening our communities to our states and not worrying about this federal government and starting from building from the bottom up rather than trying to cut off the head from the top.
01:38:28.000 Well, the rules exist for a reason because we really want it to be representative of the people.
01:38:34.000 So we want it to be fair.
01:38:36.000 And that's where people get really nervous about the world we're living in where there's so much money involved in politics.
01:38:42.000 How can it actually be representing the will of the people?
01:38:45.000 And then there's a question to the people themselves.
01:38:47.000 Do they know what they're voting for?
01:38:48.000 Are they informed enough?
01:38:50.000 Should you have to be informed?
01:38:52.000 Should you have to take a test to vote?
01:38:54.000 Should you know what you're voting on?
01:38:56.000 I don't think we should be restricting people's right or access to vote, but I do think it would behoove all of us if we actually understood what we were voting for.
01:39:05.000 And I think a lot of times people are just voting for a team or an ideology, whether it's on the right or the left.
01:39:12.000 And a lot of times, some very evil, hyper ambitious people can co opt that.
01:39:18.000 That group of people, and especially when they have so much money involved. 0.88
01:39:23.000 That's what really fucked us is when money got involved in politics. 0.87
01:39:27.000 That's what it meant. 0.76
01:39:28.000 It's changed everything.
01:39:30.000 It shouldn't be a path to riches.
01:39:32.000 We can hardly get a debate in at all with these sizes of the advertising budgets for ad campaigns.
01:39:41.000 And it's really disrupted this whole balance.
01:39:45.000 I mean, as we watch.
01:39:48.000 The upcoming midterms, you know.
01:39:49.000 They're using AI now.
01:39:51.000 So they have like artificial people doing things that they've never done before in these AI videos.
01:39:56.000 And it's crazy that that's legal.
01:39:57.000 It's also very disheartening that these are the choices that we're saddled with, you know, and everyone's waiting for like, you know, a true JFK style character to come along that speaks eloquently and wisely and says things that we all agree make sense and is a uniter.
01:40:17.000 He tries to unite us.
01:40:18.000 If you see anybody that's.
01:40:20.000 Anybody knew this on either side?
01:40:23.000 Not like that, no.
01:40:24.000 I wish that someone out there would consider.
01:40:28.000 I think there's a lot of people like that in the world, though.
01:40:31.000 I'm not a pessimist and I'm not cynical in terms of human nature.
01:40:34.000 I think there's way more good people than bad people.
01:40:36.000 But much like your algorithm highlights things that anger you, we concentrate more on the bad than we do on the good.
01:40:44.000 I think this is like one of the greatest times ever to be alive.
01:40:46.000 As chaotic as the world is, this is an amazing time of information and resources and also of communication.
01:40:51.000 A lot of it's bad, a lot of it's shitty, a lot of it's bots.
01:40:55.000 But a lot of it is people just trying to figure out what is right and what is wrong.
01:40:59.000 Why do I believe what I believe? 1.00
01:41:00.000 And why are we stuck in this stupid fucking argument back and forth with each other? 1.00
01:41:04.000 Where, like my friend Dave Smith always says, like 80% of the ideas most people agree on. 1.00
01:41:09.000 It's 80 20.
01:41:11.000 Most people agree.
01:41:12.000 And unfortunately, when we're so tribal and we get locked into this idea of this side or that side, red or blue, that we will go along with some stuff that we absolutely don't agree with because the opposite is the evil party.
01:41:27.000 The opposite is the evil party.
01:41:28.000 The opposite is, and I think it's a terrible tragedy in this country that we only have two choices like that.
01:41:35.000 And that you think of a libertarian candidate as a throwaway vote.
01:41:39.000 I've voted libertarian before.
01:41:40.000 You think of it as like, this is a protest vote, you know, because California's going to go blue no matter who.
01:41:46.000 Well, the laws are structured such that the libertarians can't get the campaign money that they want.
01:41:54.000 And the problem is, it's at the top.
01:41:54.000 Exactly.
01:41:57.000 We look at the news every night.
01:41:59.000 And we're all kind of getting along, whether Republicans or Democrats, okay, but these guys at the top have polarized it to such an extent.
01:42:10.000 I used to, my father was involved in a lot of politics over the years, and there's a guy named Jack Valenti, who's the motion picture and television representative, a lobbyist, you know.
01:42:22.000 And I remember 25, 30 years ago, you know, you argue your hell out and this and that, and then you all go on out, you go to the same cocktail party now.
01:42:33.000 Absolutely.
01:42:34.000 I mean, socially, everything is separate.
01:42:38.000 I remember that from the 90s.
01:42:39.000 It was that in the 90s.
01:42:40.000 Like, I had friends that were Republicans when I was in the 90s, and we would discuss things.
01:42:45.000 When I was a kid, we were on welfare.
01:42:47.000 I believe in social safety nets.
01:42:49.000 I think it's important.
01:42:50.000 When people are poor, they shouldn't starve.
01:42:51.000 It's crazy.
01:42:53.000 But I also believe that a lot of these welfare programs get pilfered.
01:42:56.000 And I think there's a lot of them.
01:42:59.000 What you're doing is when you look at a lot of these NGOs and a lot of these nonprofits, an enormous amount of the money that gets donated to these things.
01:43:07.000 Gets distributed by the executives.
01:43:09.000 You find people that are working for the homeless and they're making a million dollars a year. 0.99
01:43:12.000 Like, what the fuck is going on here? 0.99
01:43:14.000 It seems like this is a business. 1.00
01:43:16.000 This is a business.
01:43:17.000 And this business thrives on making sure there's a lot of homeless people so you keep getting the same money, just like that scene in Falling Down.
01:43:24.000 When he says you have to justify your budget, you have to spend all that money because then you won't get that money next year.
01:43:28.000 That's a real problem in this country.
01:43:30.000 It's a giant problem when it comes to even philanthropy and even like really good charitable organizations.
01:43:37.000 You find out how much of that money is just getting.
01:43:39.000 Slung around to NGOs, and how much of that money is just getting moved around into other people's bank accounts.
01:43:47.000 Joe, I concur with you, but I cannot believe it comes close to the corruption involved in the military industrial complex.
01:43:54.000 Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.
01:43:55.000 No, I think you're right.
01:43:55.000 I think you're right.
01:43:56.000 I think there's corruption across the board.
01:43:58.000 I'm not excusing the corruption in the military industrial complex by saying that we I'm just saying that we need to pay attention to the fact that look, there's $24 billion was spent on the homeless in California.
01:44:09.000 And Gavin Newsom vetoed a bill to audit it to find out where that money went.
01:44:14.000 I think, if I had a guess, I think because a lot of it goes to places that are very uncomfortable.
01:44:18.000 A lot of it probably went to NGOs.
01:44:20.000 Just like the fire money from the Pacific Palisades fire.
01:44:24.000 That money got distributed to like 100 different NGOs.
01:44:27.000 That's crazy.
01:44:29.000 It's supposed to go to the people that were losing their houses.
01:44:31.000 It's supposed to like people raised all this money and had all this goodwill and charity because they thought it was going to help these poor people that were struck down.
01:44:38.000 These people that, you know, there's a lot of people who were barely paying their mortgages.
01:44:41.000 They lived in a great neighborhood, it was worth it to them.
01:44:44.000 And then they lost everything.
01:44:45.000 And none of that money went to them.
01:44:47.000 That disturbs people.
01:44:48.000 And it should.
01:44:49.000 It doesn't dismiss or in any way condone the corruption of the military industrial complex because that's a gigantic problem in this country, a huge problem.
01:44:59.000 And it's been that way for a while.
01:45:00.000 The other one you're speaking about, we should be able to monitor more carefully.
01:45:05.000 100%.
01:45:05.000 State by state.
01:45:06.000 I mean, that's what you're saying, it makes sense, but we should.
01:45:10.000 We can do that.
01:45:11.000 Look, the Pentagon's never passed an audit.
01:45:12.000 Is it another hidden.
01:45:13.000 The Pentagon has never passed an audit.
01:45:16.000 Never.
01:45:16.000 Imagine if you never passed an audit.
01:45:19.000 You'd have been jailed a long time ago.
01:45:23.000 Jail a long time ago.
01:45:24.000 They ought to be.
01:45:24.000 Where are you?
01:45:25.000 You're not fucking romancing the stone money, sir. 0.99
01:45:27.000 Yeah, they would have put you in the pokey a long time ago. 0.98
01:45:31.000 I mean, look how many people they did arrest for and put in jail for tax evasion. 1.00
01:45:36.000 You know, Lauren Hill went to fucking jail from the Fugees. 0.99
01:45:36.000 Yeah. 0.99
01:45:40.000 She went to jail. 1.00
01:45:42.000 And they don't even care if you pay.
01:45:43.000 It's not even like you owe us the money and you got to pay it back.
01:45:46.000 No, no, no.
01:45:47.000 You go to jail and you pay it back. 1.00
01:45:49.000 But you got to go to jail so that everybody knows don't fuck with the government. 0.99
01:45:52.000 We want our money. 1.00
01:45:53.000 It's like Joe Pesci from Goodfellas. 1.00
01:45:55.000 Fuck you, pay me. 1.00
01:45:57.000 Yeah, that's what it is. 1.00
01:45:58.000 And that's the boot that we're all living under.
01:46:02.000 You know, there's a lot of problems in this country.
01:46:04.000 A lot of problems.
01:46:04.000 Yeah.
01:46:05.000 There's also the student debt problem.
01:46:07.000 That's a giant problem.
01:46:08.000 Saddle down kids with just debt they can never get free of.
01:46:13.000 The only debt that we allow in this country that could never, never get out of.
01:46:18.000 You can get bankrupt from a lot of different things, but you don't ever get excused from those loans.
01:46:24.000 That was one of the things I'm not proud about that I wrote in the book because, but the student debt was when I turned 21, and I was just my sophomore year in college.
01:46:39.000 My dad said, You're 21, okay, here you go.
01:46:43.000 He took a checkbook, he wrote a check, he gave me $10,000.
01:46:46.000 $10,000.
01:46:49.000 I said, Wow, Dad, thanks, that's great.
01:46:53.000 Wow.
01:46:53.000 He says, You're on your own, kid.
01:46:56.000 It's more than 95% of this country can be.
01:47:01.000 What was that in those days?
01:47:02.000 Like, what is that equivalent to in today's dollar?
01:47:04.000 I don't know.
01:47:05.000 I don't know.
01:47:06.000 100?
01:47:07.000 No, maybe 10.
01:47:09.000 Probably.
01:47:10.000 But I don't know.
01:47:11.000 But I said, Dad, it's great, but, you know, I got two years more fruition in school and everything.
01:47:21.000 And, you know, a couple of ladies said, Son, they started getting pissed about, you know, you're taking this.
01:47:26.000 I said, No, Dad, I'm really grateful, but, you know.
01:47:29.000 Anyway, and then for 30 years, my father had four sons.
01:47:39.000 I was the oldest.
01:47:41.000 For 30 years, dad would look at all of my other brothers and say, Your brother Michael never asked me for anything, anything in his life after that. 0.99
01:47:52.000 And you guys, and he would just drill these poor bastards, my brothers, about that. 0.97
01:47:57.000 And finally, about 30 years later, I said, Dad, I got to tell you something. 0.99
01:48:02.000 I said, what?
01:48:04.000 You remember one Christmas, you bought me a beautiful present.
01:48:08.000 You bought me these two beautiful Italian leather suitcases.
01:48:13.000 They were soft, leather, just beautiful suitcases, right?
01:48:18.000 I said, yeah, yeah, I can't remember.
01:48:21.000 Well, when I would go back, like at Christmas time from school, go see my mother back east, right?
01:48:26.000 I said, yeah.
01:48:27.000 Well, each suitcase could fit 22 kilos of marijuana.
01:48:33.000 And I used to go back with just the clothes on my back.
01:48:36.000 And 44 kilos, you know.
01:48:40.000 And that was how I got through, you know, the rest of the expense of my school.
01:48:45.000 Did it a couple of times and that got me through. 0.59
01:48:49.000 But I said, I got to tell you the story, Dad, because, you know, you're beating the shit out of my younger brothers and everything about, you know, I never asked you for anything. 0.97
01:48:58.000 Because I was a drug dealer. 0.98
01:49:04.000 Wow.
01:49:05.000 That's crazy.
01:49:06.000 How many trips did you make?
01:49:08.000 Twice.
01:49:09.000 How did you stop?
01:49:11.000 Well, because it was so much money.
01:49:13.000 How did you stop?
01:49:14.000 I mean, you must have been like, it's very profitable to do that.
01:49:17.000 Well, I remember it was like a kilo was $75 out west, and you could sell it for $500 or $600, $700 back east.
01:49:29.000 But, you know, things were beginning to get, you know, that was with the whole hippie thing. 0.98
01:49:36.000 All of a sudden, you know, ex cons were coming out of jail and saying, hey, man, grow your hair long, you know, go to, you hate Ashbury, you can fuck any girls you want, they give you free food. 0.98
01:49:48.000 And then, you know, it got infiltrated. 0.99
01:49:50.000 And the drug dealings started getting violent.
01:49:53.000 Violent and uglier and a little heavier.
01:49:56.000 Of course.
01:49:57.000 Yeah.
01:49:58.000 Wow.
01:49:59.000 Well, good on you for getting just two trips and out.
01:50:02.000 Because a lot of people would have been sucked into that world and got addicted to the money.
01:50:07.000 Yeah.
01:50:07.000 And the thrill.
01:50:08.000 I bet the thrill was crazy.
01:50:10.000 The adrenaline rush, yeah, of doing it.
01:50:12.000 Of course, this was before dogs.
01:50:15.000 Right, right, right, right.
01:50:16.000 But.
01:50:18.000 Was there a possibility that they could have checked your luggage?
01:50:20.000 Oh, sure, sure they could have.
01:50:22.000 I mean, it was, you know.
01:50:24.000 Did that happen sometimes back then?
01:50:28.000 I mean, I don't know.
01:50:28.000 No.
01:50:30.000 I was, you know, I was a little hippie.
01:50:34.000 Wow.
01:50:35.000 I wasn't thinking totally clearly.
01:50:38.000 Well, then we had a lot of good memories.
01:50:44.000 I remember going to Mothers of Invention.
01:50:49.000 Frank Zappa?
01:50:50.000 Frank Zappa, here at a concert.
01:50:53.000 And.
01:50:55.000 Talked about hallucinogenics and all of that.
01:50:59.000 And I was driving, and they had remember the ad, it was a serial ad for a kid give it to Mikey, see if Mikey likes it.
01:51:07.000 Yeah, Mikey likes it, right, left.
01:51:09.000 Yeah.
01:51:10.000 So I dropped whatever we had and was going to the concert.
01:51:17.000 I made a left turn, and all of a sudden, almost was there, my car driving, and all of a sudden, I can see the red lights are going, and I go, oh man.
01:51:27.000 And I get out of the car.
01:51:30.000 And I go back and I talk to the police officer and it's okay.
01:51:34.000 I made an illegal left-hand turn.
01:51:36.000 It's okay.
01:51:37.000 I remember when I got back into the car and Danny was with me and we had, you know, about, I don't know, a few joints.
01:51:47.000 And Danny was in the back seat and I just looked at him and said, where's the grass?
01:51:53.000 And Danny smiled.
01:51:56.000 All his mouth was entirely this green monk. 0.99
01:51:59.000 He swallowed all of them, you know. 0.99
01:52:02.000 At the time, I mean, just crazy, you know, crazy stories.
01:52:09.000 We had a great time.
01:52:11.000 And then he went on, and then I don't know if you ever saw a movie called The War of the Roses.
01:52:18.000 Did you ever see it?
01:52:18.000 Danny directed it.
01:52:19.000 Danny directed that one.
01:52:19.000 Yeah.
01:52:22.000 One of the things that I found out when I was getting ready for this that I didn't know before was that you produced One Flew Over the Cougu's Nest.
01:52:29.000 Correct, yeah.
01:52:31.000 Was that your first big project?
01:52:35.000 First project as a producer.
01:52:37.000 I mean, I had never.
01:52:38.000 The way it worked is that Dad, like 1960, Dad got Spartacus.
01:52:45.000 So Spartacus is like the biggest star in the world.
01:52:48.000 And he had a production company.
01:52:49.000 About 1962, he acquired the galleys of this book called One Flew Over the Cuckoos, that's by Ken Kesey.
01:52:57.000 And he had it adapted into a play.
01:53:00.000 And his idea was he was going to go back to Broadway.
01:53:04.000 Do the play for six months, and then, you know, big success and this and that, then come out and make the movie.
01:53:11.000 The play didn't work out.
01:53:13.000 It wasn't a success and he did it.
01:53:16.000 But again, I thought about him at the height of his movie career, he could do anything.
01:53:21.000 He wanted to go back and do this play.
01:53:24.000 And it was a great part, R.P. McMurphy, the character.
01:53:31.000 And then he tried for years.
01:53:32.000 Now, cut 1963.
01:53:36.000 I'm in college and I'm in 20th century American literature course, and one flew over the cuckoo's nest now as an American classic, right?
01:53:46.000 I started working.
01:53:49.000 In the business, I've had like five turkey movies.
01:53:52.000 Now I'm going into television, episodic television.
01:53:55.000 This is before the streets of San Francisco.
01:53:58.000 And I'm in my dad's office one day, and I hear he's tried for six years and he's going to sell.
01:54:04.000 He's going to sell Cuckoo's Nest.
01:54:08.000 I said, Dad, you can't sell that, man.
01:54:11.000 This is just a great story.
01:54:14.000 And Joe, I had no intention of, I even thought about producing or anything.
01:54:19.000 I was just going to be an actor, but I said, Look, Let me run with it.
01:54:24.000 Let me try to get it set up, Dad.
01:54:26.000 You play the part, right?
01:54:28.000 Make a production.
01:54:29.000 Give me a chance to set it up.
01:54:32.000 He was a great dad.
01:54:33.000 He looked me in the eye and said, OK, I'll give you a year.
01:54:40.000 So now, Streets of San Francisco starts, and I'm shooting all of this in San Francisco with Carl Maldon.
01:54:47.000 I'm doing the show.
01:54:50.000 I go through my father's files.
01:54:52.000 The history of Cuckoo's Nest, and I see this guy named Saul Zantz, who has a record company in Berkeley, California, called Fantasy Records, who had expressed interest about the project.
01:55:06.000 So now I'm up in San Francisco.
01:55:08.000 I reach out to Saul, found out what happened, and you know, what the problem was.
01:55:15.000 And we kind of work it out.
01:55:18.000 And Saul had basically a record company, jazz labels, milestone prestige jazz labels, but he had this one rock and roll group called.
01:55:26.000 The Gollywogs.
01:55:29.000 And while I was there, he just hired the Gollywogs. 0.97
01:55:32.000 He said, Listen, man, we got to change their name.
01:55:35.000 And they changed their name to Credence Clearwater Revival.
01:55:38.000 All right?
01:55:39.000 So Credence Clearwater Revival paid for Cuckoo's Nest.
01:55:44.000 So now, you know, we made the deal.
01:55:47.000 I finally got a screenplay.
01:55:49.000 After a period of time, I got a director, Milos Foreman.
01:55:53.000 And now the director and Saul sit me down and say, Michael, Kirk's too old.
01:56:02.000 Kirk, I'm sorry, I'd say Kirk is not going to work out.
01:56:07.000 And I pushed and cajoled.
01:56:10.000 I said, Michael, we're working together.
01:56:14.000 I understand.
01:56:15.000 He was going to play the Jack Nicholson role.
01:56:17.000 Yeah, he was R.P. McMurphy.
01:56:19.000 I mean, he would be R.P. McMurphy if he had been like 20 years younger when he first backed them and was doing the play.
01:56:19.000 Think about it.
01:56:29.000 So I had to go to my dad.
01:56:31.000 How old was he at the time?
01:56:32.000 60, 62.
01:56:37.000 And I had to go to my dad and say, Dad, it ain't going to happen.
01:56:45.000 And I can tell you now, Joe, if you get four good parts in your entire career, four really great parts, you're lucky.
01:56:53.000 You're really lucky.
01:56:55.000 I mean, they don't come along often.
01:56:57.000 And R.P. McMurphy was one of those parts.
01:57:02.000 I said, Dad, the director saw financing, they don't see it.
01:57:08.000 And he looked at me, you know, not sure.
01:57:13.000 I said, I went to the mat.
01:57:15.000 I said, Dad, we're still, you know, we're producing the picture.
01:57:19.000 I'm going to give you half of my producing deal for giving me this opportunity.
01:57:25.000 We went off, we made the movie.
01:57:25.000 And I was that.
01:57:28.000 And then I brought Dad up to Berkeley, California to see the final cut of the picture.
01:57:34.000 It was all put together.
01:57:36.000 And he came out of the theater and he said, Michael, It's a hell of a movie.
01:57:42.000 A hell of a movie.
01:57:44.000 And Jack was fantastic. 1.00
01:57:49.000 And he was just such a mensch about it. 0.58
01:57:55.000 But over every few years, you know, when dad had a couple of pops, he said, I could have done that, you know, I could have done that picture and all of that.
01:58:08.000 But for me, it was crazy because The Streets of San Francisco was a big hit.
01:58:13.000 The big number one show on ABC.
01:58:17.000 We had, you know, we averaged 24, 25 million viewers a week.
01:58:22.000 You know, ABC was this brand new network.
01:58:25.000 It just started.
01:58:27.000 And then it was syndicated all over the world.
01:58:31.000 So when I went to them and said, let me get this straight, you're going to leave, this is the fifth, you're going to leave this hit series to make this little, to produce, not even acting, to produce this little indie film.
01:58:43.000 And dad was up.
01:58:44.000 Everybody said, Are you sure this is a right idea?
01:58:47.000 I was in love with the project.
01:58:50.000 I never thought about producing.
01:58:52.000 But what had happened is all the 104 hours, 104 episodes, 104 hours of television I'd done with Carl Malden, a wonderful actor, I had learned so much about production and everything that I was shocked when the picture came about how much I really knew.
01:59:16.000 And so, I left the show.
01:59:19.000 First of all, they let me out of my contract, which is unheard of these days.
01:59:23.000 I had a five year contract and a hit show.
01:59:25.000 And Carl Malden, I loved him to death, said, I know you've been thinking about Go For It.
01:59:32.000 And Quinn Martin, this big TV producer, had The Fugitive and FBI and all that, said, Go For It.
01:59:40.000 And so this totally changed my life so that now I'm a television actor.
01:59:49.000 But I'm an Academy Award winning producer.
01:59:53.000 I've got a studio deal as a producer, you know.
01:59:58.000 But those days, before streaming, television and feature films were on very separate tracks.
02:00:06.000 Television, you were treated like a television actor, and movies were the big thing.
02:00:11.000 So I'm a producer, but I can't get hired in the movies as an actor.
02:00:18.000 It was really hard.
02:00:19.000 I would be like the last choice.
02:00:22.000 But then I had a run.
02:00:23.000 I had, as a producer, one floor of The Cuckoo's Nest, The China Syndrome, Romancing the Stone, Jewel Valley.
02:00:30.000 I had like four or five hits right in the row.
02:00:35.000 At the same time, I was trying to find these little roles I could play in as an actor.
02:00:41.000 Wow.
02:00:42.000 Yeah.
02:00:44.000 Another film that you made that's an all time great, and it still freaks people out to this day, is Fatal Attraction. 0.99
02:00:50.000 Holy shit. 0.99
02:00:51.000 That movie scared the fuck out of me. 1.00
02:00:54.000 It scared the fuck out of me. 0.98
02:00:55.000 Glenn Close was so good in that movie. 0.84
02:00:57.000 She was so good.
02:00:59.000 And, you know, it was such a lesson, Joe, because we didn't want to, well, we were casting the picture, you know, and Glenn Close, who already had three Academy Award nominations to her name, you know, really wanted to do it.
02:01:14.000 We all said, no, she's just not right.
02:01:16.000 We didn't even think she was sexy enough or this or that. 0.97
02:01:20.000 And finally, her agent called and said, listen, Glenn Close will come in and audition for you. 0.98
02:01:26.000 I went, holy shit, this is a three time Academy Award nominee. 0.98
02:01:29.000 She'll come in and audition for us. 0.99
02:01:31.000 And she came in and she had that part down in Alex.
02:01:38.000 And boy, were we wrong.
02:01:40.000 The director, we all looked at each other.
02:01:42.000 It was such a lesson learning that she was so committed that she'd lay herself out there and she was so good.
02:01:51.000 She was perfect for the role.
02:01:53.000 I couldn't imagine anybody else doing it. 1.00
02:01:55.000 She plays crazy so well. 1.00
02:01:57.000 There's a darkness in that woman's mind. 0.96
02:02:00.000 And it's amazing that the issue that. 0.98
02:02:04.000 On another level, she's most involved with this mental health.
02:02:08.000 It's an issue that's been involved in her family. 1.00
02:02:11.000 She probably made a lot of people crazy just from that movie.
02:02:11.000 Makes sense.
02:02:14.000 Oh, yeah.
02:02:16.000 I had one.
02:02:16.000 Oh, no.
02:02:17.000 She played crazy so well.
02:02:19.000 My friends, I had my male friends, thanks a lot, man.
02:02:23.000 Hey, thank you. 0.96
02:02:24.000 They fucking hated me in this movie. 0.99
02:02:26.000 They hated me. 1.00
02:02:28.000 You know, it was like, it was a perfect concept nightmare.
02:02:32.000 Yeah.
02:02:33.000 A perfect what if.
02:02:34.000 And I remember we were in France.
02:02:38.000 Promoting the movie in France, and all the reviewers said, Well, you know, in France, we all had mistresses.
02:02:44.000 It is not a big deal.
02:02:45.000 Yeah, this and that.
02:02:47.000 It was a smash hit. 1.00
02:02:48.000 Every French wife dragged their husband to the theater and said, Okay, this is what could happen, motherfucker. 1.00
02:02:56.000 So be careful. 1.00
02:02:57.000 Well, Glenn Close's character was such a complex character because it was this very strange dance of sexy and crazy and dangerous, like really dangerous.
02:03:08.000 No, she was brilliant.
02:03:09.000 And then when we did our final screening, the picture was just like gangbusters, but we had a different ending that didn't work.
02:03:09.000 Brilliant.
02:03:22.000 And the ending we had was that we had a fight near the end, and I had a knife in my hand, and you kind of established it.
02:03:33.000 And so the ending was Glenn almost in a Buddha position with Madame Butterfly playing.
02:03:41.000 And sort of symbolically taking a knife and slitting her throat. 0.95
02:03:45.000 Whoa!
02:03:47.000 And then putting the knife down, and the audience knew that my fingerprints were on the knife, right?
02:03:54.000 So I was going to get it.
02:03:55.000 Oh, wow.
02:03:56.000 That didn't work?
02:03:58.000 No, it was so amazing.
02:04:00.000 It was a beautiful ending.
02:04:02.000 But Glenn was so good. 1.00
02:04:05.000 She was so great that the audience, like, had blue balls because they said, no, kill the bitch. 1.00
02:04:11.000 I mean, you don't kill her. 1.00
02:04:13.000 It was like, you know, no, no, no, man, no, when you kill her. 0.74
02:04:16.000 Kelly, they would not allow her to take her own life without us getting revenge.
02:04:25.000 And poor Glenn absolutely said, We have to shoot a new ending.
02:04:29.000 She said, Absolutely not.
02:04:31.000 This is my character.
02:04:32.000 This is what makes it all work. 0.99
02:04:34.000 And she refused to do this ending. 0.99
02:04:38.000 And so I was like, Shit, you know, and it just wasn't working. 0.99
02:04:43.000 The ending was so hard to explain to her that it was because she was so good. 1.00
02:04:50.000 Oh my god, you're fast, man.
02:04:52.000 This is it.
02:04:54.000 Right.
02:04:55.000 You can find it on YouTube.
02:04:57.000 Oh, God. 1.00
02:04:58.000 She's doing it slow. 1.00
02:05:00.000 Oh, God.
02:05:07.000 You get it.
02:05:07.000 Okay, I get it.
02:05:11.000 So finally, I say, Glenn, she's a wonderful theater actress, too.
02:05:15.000 I say, Glenn, when you do a Broadway show, they take the show out of town and before it comes to Broadway, and they play the play, and then based on audience reaction, They rewrite things, right?
02:05:34.000 So if this was a play and we did this and you saw that scene, they would tell us if it was a play right out of town and we would have to change it.
02:05:47.000 So this is why I never understood people have this whole criticism about screening movies, doing test screening audiences.
02:05:54.000 It's for the audience, man.
02:05:56.000 I mean, you want to find out what the audience feels.
02:05:59.000 I mean, I understand the artist, the director, and his vision and everything.
02:06:03.000 But you want to make it as entertaining as possible.
02:06:06.000 So I persuaded her, and it all worked out.
02:06:12.000 I love her to dance.
02:06:13.000 She was wonderful to work with.
02:06:14.000 We have a great friendship.
02:06:17.000 It's obviously a memorable part for me, I mean, part of my life.
02:06:23.000 But I'm proud of the fact, Joe, and I realized it wasn't as obvious until when I was working on one hell of a ride, and how many pictures.
02:06:37.000 I had where the women had the best role.
02:06:43.000 Whether it was Glenn or whether it was Demi Moore in Disclosure or Sharon Stone. 0.52
02:06:54.000 And I looked back to the first picture that I produced, Cuckoo's Nest, when there was this fabulous character of Nurse Ratchet.
02:07:04.000 Remember Nurse Ratchet?
02:07:06.000 Yeah. 1.00
02:07:07.000 Well, back then, Women didn't want to play a villain. 1.00
02:07:13.000 This was the women's movement. 1.00
02:07:15.000 Women didn't play a villain. 1.00
02:07:16.000 We offered that part to every major Anne Bancroft, Colleen Dewhurst. 1.00
02:07:22.000 None of them would touch the part until we got Louise Fletcher, who wasn't very well known and went on to win the Oscar.
02:07:33.000 But it was just interesting how the women's movement has changed.
02:07:39.000 But I've always been.
02:07:42.000 In most of my adult life, I found this weird struggle between men and women in this century in terms of us trying to find out our proper roles or who we are. 0.53
02:07:56.000 Even on basic instinct, on basic instinct, all of a sudden we think we're shooting this movie up in San Francisco, and we get a protest from the LGBT community. 0.93
02:08:12.000 There was no cue back then. 0.98
02:08:15.000 It was just the LGBT community offended that we were making a movie with a bisexual woman who was an ice pick killer. 1.00
02:08:24.000 And I said, What? 1.00
02:08:30.000 And you guys, we love villain parts.
02:08:34.000 Villain parts are the best parts to play.
02:08:36.000 They're always great.
02:08:38.000 And so I said, Well, how can you?
02:08:40.000 No, this is a derogatory statement on a bisexual woman.
02:08:47.000 I just become a man.
02:08:49.000 But no, they were serious.
02:08:51.000 So we ended up shooting scenes up in San Francisco with 40 SWAT officers surrounding the whole block to hold off the protests from us of the shooting.
02:09:06.000 I mean, how did they know?
02:09:08.000 Talk about, you know, how did they know the plot?
02:09:11.000 How did they know the script?
02:09:12.000 They got hold of it.
02:09:13.000 Well, it's another story.
02:09:15.000 I will, you know, get the writer straight up.
02:09:20.000 It's another story.
02:09:23.000 Wow.
02:09:23.000 So it's, yeah, it's been an interesting ride.
02:09:28.000 It's been a hell of a ride.
02:09:29.000 Yeah.
02:09:30.000 Hell of a ride.
02:09:32.000 Well, congratulations, man.
02:09:34.000 Congratulations on the book and just your amazing career.
02:09:37.000 You've had a wild, wild experience.
02:09:40.000 Thank you, Joe.
02:09:43.000 And what you've created, I mean, well, I don't think you've ever anticipated your many different.
02:09:51.000 Careers and lives that you had.
02:09:53.000 This is fabulous.
02:09:54.000 Yeah, I never saw any of it coming.
02:09:57.000 Yeah.
02:09:57.000 I still have a hard time believing it.
02:09:59.000 But, right.
02:10:00.000 It is what it is.
02:10:01.000 It is what it is.
02:10:03.000 Thank you, and good luck with your memoir.
02:10:05.000 Thank you.
02:10:05.000 And everything, everything else.
02:10:06.000 Thank you.
02:10:07.000 Pleasure, pleasure.
02:10:07.000 Pleasure to meet you as well.
02:10:08.000 Thank you.
02:10:10.000 Bye.