The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #460 - Kron Gracie

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00:02:25.000 We're going to have to get some Onnit to Krohn Gracie because he's here and he wants to get Onnit. 0.76

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00:04:04.000 Alright, use the code word ROGAN and save 10% on any and all supplements at Onnit.com.

00:04:10.000 We are here with Krohn Gracie and we're going to get popping.

00:04:17.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:04:26.000 So a few years back, my friend Gordon Hester, who's a guy that I met on the internet, said, hey, do you want to have dinner with Hicks and Gracie? 0.99

00:04:37.000 So I said, fuck yeah, man. 0.88

00:04:39.000 If you are a jiu-jitsu practitioner, it's very rare in a sport. 0.98

00:04:45.000 I guess there's a few sports, like if you think bike racing, you think Lance Armstrong, unfortunately now.

00:04:53.000 But that's the name.

00:04:54.000 But...

00:04:55.000 The universal name that gets thrown about in Jiu Jitsu, there's the last name, which is Gracie.

00:05:01.000 And then once you get to know Jiu Jitsu, and you understand Jiu Jitsu, and you start training, everybody always wants to know who's the best, who's the best, who's the best.

00:05:12.000 Universally regarded as the all-time best is your father.

00:05:17.000 Your father, Hicks and Gracie.

00:05:18.000 There's not much debate amongst Jiu Jitsu people.

00:05:21.000 There's debate as to who's the best right now, but...

00:05:25.000 I talked to Henzo about this one time, and Henzo just shook his head. 1.00

00:05:30.000 He goes, he's a motherfucker. 1.00

00:05:32.000 He goes, he's a motherfucker. 1.00

00:05:34.000 He's laughing. 1.00

00:05:35.000 He's like, he's the best.

00:05:36.000 He's the best.

00:05:37.000 And when a guy like Henzo says something, I just listen.

00:05:40.000 Me too.

00:05:41.000 Me too.

00:05:43.000 So, that's when I met you.

00:05:45.000 You were with your dad, and we went and had some dinner, and then we went back to your house, and we watched some fights, which was amazing to have your dad break down what guys are doing wrong and what's wrong with...

00:05:57.000 Their positioning, what's wrong with their approach and what his approach is.

00:06:03.000 And for me, as a student of martial arts and as a fan of martial arts, it was a huge honor.

00:06:10.000 And you were, I think, were you like 16 or 17 back then?

00:06:14.000 Yeah, something like that. 0.96

00:06:15.000 Yeah, you were into rap music and all kinds of different shit. 0.51

00:06:19.000 So from that, I've run into you a few times over the years when Hoist fought Matt Hughes and a couple other times. 0.85

00:06:29.000 You've become yourself.

00:06:31.000 Like one of the most prominent jujitsu fighters in the world today.

00:06:35.000 And that's so cool to see.

00:06:38.000 It's so cool to see a young kid with aspirations and then put in the work.

00:06:44.000 And it's also cool to see the son of a great man become a great man himself, which is very difficult.

00:06:51.000 And it doesn't really happen that often.

00:06:54.000 You know, a lot of times the son of a great man lives in the shadow of his father and sort of falls short.

00:07:00.000 But you, in your young life, you're 25 now?

00:07:03.000 25. In your young life, you've already carved out a great name in jiu-jitsu with your own accomplishments.

00:07:10.000 You're widely considered to be amongst the very best in the world at jiu-jitsu.

00:07:15.000 And how does that feel?

00:07:17.000 It feels great, you know.

00:07:18.000 Now finally...

00:07:21.000 After so long of, you know, because I knew when I was a little kid that I was going to have to be a fighter or be a martial artist.

00:07:29.000 Have to?

00:07:30.000 Yeah, I mean, have to, really.

00:07:32.000 As much as my dad wants to make it feel like he didn't put pressure on me, and, you know, he did.

00:07:38.000 People say he teaches invisible jiu-jitsu.

00:07:41.000 Well, I'll talk about invisible pressure.

00:07:47.000 At an early age, when I'm a little kid, I can always see how much my dad trains and how big he is a part of what he does in the world and how much people respect him.

00:08:01.000 How much recognition you get.

00:08:02.000 So from a very early age, you want to replicate that and you want to do what your father does if it feels cool to you.

00:08:11.000 And it's always been really cool to me.

00:08:13.000 Of course, when I was younger, up until 12 years old, I used to skate a lot and Jiu-Jitsu was kind of whatever.

00:08:19.000 But I knew that in the future that that was what I was going to have to do no matter what.

00:08:23.000 So it came to a point where I kind of put skateboarding aside I had gotten hurt skateboarding a bunch of times, and I was like, you know what, I don't care about skateboarding as much as I do jiu-jitsu.

00:08:34.000 I'm not going to be as good as a skateboarder as I can be with jiu-jitsu, which this kind of all clicked for me.

00:08:43.000 One day with my brother, you know, we were talking and everything, and this was like one of the last conversations we had, and he was always like, you know, Krohn, you...

00:08:53.000 Whatever you do in life, you do it 100%.

00:08:55.000 You do it the best you can do it.

00:08:57.000 If you're going to be a dentist, you'll be the best dentist.

00:08:59.000 If you're going to be a skateboarder, you'll be the best skateboarder.

00:09:02.000 But the only difference is, right here, you have an opportunity to do jiu-jitsu, and you have the best road, you have the best dad as a coach, you have all the tools you need to really be the best you can be. 0.96

00:09:15.000 And it would be stupid for you not to really take advantage of this. 0.89

00:09:19.000 And that kind of happened when I was 12. After my brother passed, I kind of really, really put effort into that and I kind of really made it my mission to make him proud and to make my dad proud and I kind of knew what I had in my hands. 0.90

00:09:33.000 But at that age, you never know how good you're going to get and you never know what's going to happen.

00:09:37.000 So I just kind of dedicated myself, dedicated myself.

00:09:40.000 And then, you know, when we met each other, I was still fully dedicated, but I still hadn't achieved, you know, anything really.

00:09:50.000 And I think like with the...

00:09:53.000 For me, like in life, when you...

00:09:58.000 When you try, when you try, when you try, when you try, you only get what you think you're going to get way later.

00:10:05.000 I put so much dedication into it by 16 years old, but I hadn't seen any of the fruits and I hadn't seen any necessarily big reward from it.

00:10:14.000 So it was basically just the passion of being able to train Jiu Jitsu and being able to do what I knew was my mission.

00:10:26.000 I kind of lost my track a little bit of what I was gonna say, but...

00:10:31.000 So, basically, from that age, you know, it was always like I knew that I had to do that, you know.

00:10:37.000 As much as things would always, like, there's always, like, little things that go in your head that you might want to, like, change or whatever.

00:10:44.000 But in my mind, it was never an option not to do jiu-jitsu and never an option not to be the best I could be and to be the best in the world.

00:10:52.000 That was always, like, where I was going to be.

00:10:54.000 I never had a plan B. I never had a...

00:10:56.000 Oh, well, I'm just going to try this, and then if this doesn't work out, I'll try.

00:10:59.000 I never had that.

00:11:00.000 For me, it was always this was where I put my energy in, so I kind of just put my energy into it, and, you know, from a very early age, from 12, 13, 14, everybody knew me as Krohn Hickson's son.

00:11:13.000 Oh, you're Hickson's son.

00:11:14.000 Oh, you're Hickson's son.

00:11:14.000 So I already kind of...

00:11:16.000 I hated that.

00:11:17.000 I hated being called Hickson's son.

00:11:19.000 I hated being called Hawkson's little brother.

00:11:20.000 I hated being called somebody that I wasn't, and being recognized for something that I didn't do.

00:11:25.000 Somebody other than who you are.

00:11:26.000 Yeah, so I kind of always knew that if I wanted to climb out of this name and climb out of this shadow, I would have to work twice as hard, and it was going to be a real obstacle for me to get past this.

00:11:38.000 In my mind, that was my ending goal, no matter what.

00:11:41.000 I wanted to be my own man.

00:11:42.000 I wanted to be able to represent myself and my family and everything.

00:11:47.000 I wanted to be able to be remembered as somebody who kept the legacy going.

00:11:53.000 For folks who don't have any experience in martial arts, I'll try to explain this to people.

00:12:00.000 When you really stop and think about the history of martial arts, the most important moment, in my opinion, of modern martial arts was Hoist Gracie entering into the UFC in 1993. When Hoist Gracie entered into the UFC,

00:12:15.000 we saw for the first time in a real application, we saw what we had always wanted to see in the movies.

00:12:22.000 A smaller man with technique defeating larger men.

00:12:26.000 A smaller man utilizing Leverage and utilizing his skills to defeat everybody in front of him.

00:12:34.000 And from that we got introduced to the name Gracie.

00:12:38.000 We got introduced to your father.

00:12:40.000 We got introduced to Elio, your grandfather, who was the most important figure in all of martial arts.

00:12:47.000 For folks who don't know, Martial arts, for the longest time, for thousands of years, there was all this debate about what was the best style, whether it was karate or whether it was kung fu.

00:13:00.000 There was all these different people that swore that their master could defeat a thousand men in unarmed combat.

00:13:06.000 No one knew what the real deal was until the UFC came along, and that was when the world got introduced to the name Gracie.

00:13:16.000 What is it like growing up?

00:13:18.000 In that environment, when did you realize that your family was different than everybody else?

00:13:24.000 I mean, you come from the most important family in the history of martial arts.

00:13:30.000 Martial arts is what every man wants to be able to do.

00:13:33.000 Every man wants to be able to defend himself. 0.99

00:13:34.000 Every man wants to be able to kick ass. 0.99

00:13:36.000 The most important family, in my opinion, is the Gracie family. 0.99

00:13:40.000 There's no comparison.

00:13:42.000 Yeah, I mean...

00:13:45.000 You don't really think about it like that when you're in the Grace family.

00:13:48.000 You're kind of just born into this thing where it's all about martial arts and it's all about dedication and discipline.

00:13:55.000 You come from a tradition, so you don't really think about it from the outside point of view.

00:14:00.000 For me, it's just been a very normal thing to train jujitsu in the living room, to talk about how to defend yourself, to talk about leverage and health and all this.

00:14:09.000 This is just very normal for me.

00:14:12.000 It was never new.

00:14:13.000 Seeing somebody get in a fight, it's more interesting than it is like, oh, a shock.

00:14:17.000 So it's never been nothing big, but the older I get, the more I kind of realize of what I'm a part of and how important it is. 0.61

00:14:26.000 And that only motivates me more to really step up and be able to keep this going because my grandfather was a crazy dude.

00:14:34.000 He would challenge anybody, and his goal was to represent jiu-jitsu and to prove that jiu-jitsu was the best.

00:14:41.000 And that guy weighed 135 pounds, and he was not a physically fit dude, and it goes to show how powerful his spirit was and what he did.

00:14:49.000 He changed the world.

00:14:50.000 He made it so that a weak person could defeat a bigger opponent.

00:14:55.000 And with my dad, with him leading everything and taking charge and trying to spread...

00:15:02.000 He was a very, very important person in all of our lives.

00:15:05.000 He made it possible for a weak person to be able to defeat a big opponent, to have the self-confidence to believe in something other than physical form, to believe in the leverage.

00:15:18.000 And he, you know, his theory and what he put onto his children is what gave not only the leverage and the technique, but also put physical abilities on top of it.

00:15:30.000 So my dad got all the theory of the leverage and being a weak person and how to survive if you're weaker.

00:15:35.000 But my dad wasn't.

00:15:36.000 He wasn't weak.

00:15:37.000 He was strong.

00:15:38.000 So he used the technique and the leverage and the strength on top of it, which created a monster, you know.

00:15:43.000 He created...

00:15:44.000 You know, somebody who is physically strong, but trains like as if he was a very lightweight, not a physically strong person.

00:15:51.000 So he's able to really maximize his potential.

00:15:55.000 And me coming up into this, you know, again, like it's always just been a fun thing and something to be a part of.

00:16:03.000 And it only kind of really clicked that...

00:16:07.000 The older you get, the more you realize how part of it is.

00:16:10.000 And sometimes I kind of look outside from myself and I kind of think, man, this is crazy.

00:16:16.000 This is like a movie.

00:16:17.000 My grandfather was this legend and my dad is this legend.

00:16:22.000 And I'm the only son.

00:16:25.000 It's like a movie.

00:16:26.000 And not only am I... I'm not the only son, but I'm also being able to prove that it's still in the genes and it's still a powerful thing that we're dealing with.

00:16:36.000 So I'm overwhelmed sometimes and I kind of look back and I'm very grateful for the situation and obviously God put me in the situation and put us in the situation for a reason.

00:16:49.000 Most recently, you won the Abu Dhabi Submission Championships, which in the world of grappling is the most prestigious no-gi submission title in the world.

00:17:02.000 And for folks no-gi, there's two different types of jiu-jitsu.

00:17:05.000 There's jiu-jitsu with the kimono.

00:17:07.000 It looks like a judo uniform.

00:17:09.000 That's the gi.

00:17:10.000 And then there's jiu-jitsu with no-gi, which is much like wrestling or The type of techniques that you would see in the UFC, because they're not grabbing clothes.

00:17:20.000 Very different, very different as far as the pace of things.

00:17:24.000 But Abu Dhabi is the most prestigious championship in the world.

00:17:28.000 So you accomplished, you hit the top of the mountain.

00:17:32.000 You became much like the others in the Gracie family before you.

00:17:37.000 You became a champion.

00:17:38.000 What was that feeling like?

00:17:41.000 It's a great feeling.

00:17:42.000 There's no complaints about that.

00:17:47.000 In my perfect world, in my dream, if you would have asked me if I would have won the Abu Dhabi, I would have said, of course.

00:17:54.000 I would have won it probably much more times by this age.

00:17:59.000 If you would have asked me when I was 15 years old.

00:18:01.000 But, you know, in life it's not so easy, you know.

00:18:04.000 And for me in my life, everything was easy, you know.

00:18:08.000 Purple belt was easy, brown belt was easy.

00:18:11.000 So I never had this obstacle of challenges and I never really had to dig deep and figure out what...

00:18:17.000 What am I about, really?

00:18:19.000 So, I won everything.

00:18:22.000 I was undefeated as a purple and brown belt.

00:18:24.000 And then my first match as a black belt, I lost. 1.00

00:18:27.000 I got my ass whooped. 0.99

00:18:28.000 And it was a mix of a bunch of things that I came to my conclusion of why that happened. 0.99

00:18:34.000 In the end, I think that I was just not mentally ready for that and I let all these outside things affect me.

00:18:40.000 Anyways, I lost the fight and really dug deep to see what I was going to do with my life.

00:18:47.000 After you realize what happens and how you can prevent it and how you're going to get better, Then you start to really work hard for what you want to get.

00:18:57.000 After that moment, I started to really become a man and really understand sacrifice and how to work hard.

00:19:02.000 If you want something in life, you can't depend on anybody for it.

00:19:07.000 You can't ask anybody for it.

00:19:09.000 You have to go and really work hard to get it.

00:19:12.000 I think I started to really become a man as a black belt.

00:19:16.000 That's when I really put my energy into it.

00:19:19.000 I've lost tournaments.

00:19:21.000 I've won lots of tournaments.

00:19:23.000 Sometimes I lose because of points and I've never really been about points but ultimately I feel like now after so long of being on this Journey of this hard path, I finally kind of started to find myself in the past couple years and I'm finally getting the results that I've wanted a long time ago and I've realized a lot more about life and about myself than if I would have just won everything.

00:19:49.000 So that's a great situation to be in and I work really hard for this first place medal so it's gonna be hard for somebody to take it from me.

00:19:57.000 That is an interesting thing, isn't it?

00:19:58.000 That you need defeat in order to really inspire you to the greatness that's inside of you.

00:20:03.000 You need to feel adversity to rise to the occasion.

00:20:05.000 Of course.

00:20:06.000 You fought, was it Sergio Morais?

00:20:08.000 Yeah.

00:20:08.000 Who's a very, very good black belt, and he's fighting in the UFC now.

00:20:12.000 Yeah.

00:20:13.000 One of the best jiu-jitsu guys in the UFC. Really fantastic technique.

00:20:18.000 That's a guy that you're connected to forever now because of that, right?

00:20:22.000 Yeah, I thank him in my mind.

00:20:24.000 I thank him a lot.

00:20:25.000 I got promoted like two weeks before the World Championships and my dad's always like, life is about surprises and about challenges and he's like, you want this black belt?

00:20:34.000 And I had submitted 50 fights straight and I was like, yeah, I want this challenge.

00:20:41.000 Little did I know it was going to fucking shake my world.

00:20:45.000 But I'm grateful for it and it's great. 0.96

00:20:49.000 I have no complaints and I wouldn't have changed anything.

00:20:53.000 What is it like growing up?

00:20:56.000 You're going into this world of martial arts with a guy like that as your father.

00:21:01.000 What kind of advice did he give you?

00:21:03.000 The best advice.

00:21:05.000 I think that's what made me who I am and be able to really become my own man at this age.

00:21:10.000 The advice that my dad gave me was such a, you know, it's easy in life to be drifted by things and to be drifted by what people say and what you personally think and say and feel.

00:21:22.000 So, you know, always being able to have my dad give me good advice and To be able to be my father and to teach me how to be a man, not just jujitsu, not just being good at technique, but being able to be a good person, being humble and doing the best that you can.

00:21:37.000 I think that's what allows me to become great at jujitsu and what allows me to become great at whatever I do.

00:21:44.000 And, you know, for me, I never really had that much training sessions with my father. 0.86

00:21:49.000 People think he was there coaching me every day, training on the sidelines with the water bottle and all this shit that's never existed.

00:21:56.000 But one thing I am very grateful for is...

00:22:00.000 When I started to train really hard at like 12 years old, my dad wasn't training at the academy.

00:22:06.000 My brother had passed and he was just on his own search, you know?

00:22:11.000 So he disappeared from the academy, but every night I'd come home and he would be there and he wouldn't ask me how was school.

00:22:17.000 He would ask me...

00:22:18.000 I was training and I would tell him, oh man, I got smashed or this happened or I got stuck in this position.

00:22:25.000 So at the dinner table or in front of the TV, he would give me an answer to my problem and he would give me advice, you know, whether it be about jujitsu technique or whether it be about what happened.

00:22:36.000 Here or how to how to react to what this person did.

00:22:39.000 And so my my learning my jujitsu really growth happened over food over, you know, watching TV, you know, that's where I really learned What I learned and then went back and trained at the academy and practiced what I was taught.

00:22:57.000 Most of my jujitsu I learned through verbal, light conversations at the dinner table and being able to do from that really.

00:23:08.000 Your dad had that approach which was different than Hoyce's approach and different than many other people's approach.

00:23:15.000 This approach of mastering the physical as well as mastering technique.

00:23:21.000 You know, your dad is an accomplished yogi.

00:23:23.000 He's very physically strong.

00:23:24.000 That was one thing that really separated him from a lot of the other people in the Gracie family.

00:23:29.000 Yeah, I definitely think so.

00:23:30.000 I think what separates my dad from not only everybody in the family, but from most fighters is not only his mental strength, but his spiritual strength.

00:23:42.000 And he's a very spiritual person.

00:23:45.000 I think that's huge, especially now in my life, realizing how important that is a part of me.

00:23:50.000 I think being spiritually connected to yourself and connected to whatever is above us is something that really sometimes things you can't explain happen when you're that connected.

00:24:03.000 My dad has always been a very spiritual person.

00:24:05.000 He's done all the things that he does for his purpose.

00:24:09.000 If you talk to him about money, money is just secondary to what his beliefs are.

00:24:18.000 As opposed to some people who...

00:24:20.000 They will go against what they believe in or they will go against their spirituality for a paycheck.

00:24:25.000 So my dad never did that.

00:24:29.000 He never took sponsors for beer or whatever because he doesn't believe that that's necessarily the image that he wants to go with.

00:24:38.000 I think he's a very spiritual person.

00:24:41.000 I still, even to the day, am surprised with how much honor and It's just weird to describe how good he's done for Jiu Jitsu.

00:24:56.000 Growing up in that atmosphere, that's an incredible role model to have.

00:25:00.000 To have that as your dad.

00:25:01.000 This guy that's got such a high moral standard.

00:25:05.000 How did he get into yoga?

00:25:06.000 Because that's another thing that really separated him from a lot of other martial artists and really opened up a lot of people's eyes to the beneficial aspects of yoga.

00:25:16.000 So he got into yoga with this guy Orlando Cunning who was a Brazilian yoga guy who basically his whole theory was breathing with your movements.

00:25:27.000 So being able to...

00:25:28.000 Because yoga is usually you breathe and you stop and you kind of breathe and you just do your movements and you kind of just...

00:25:34.000 Static.

00:25:35.000 But he kind of incorporated breathing with movement and being able to, like, he would be like, oh, I'm an animal, I'm a tiger.

00:25:41.000 So he would walk like a tiger and he would breathe like a tiger and he would look and he would visualize himself like a tiger.

00:25:48.000 So he started to be able to not only do that as an animal, but he started to transfer it over to jiu-jitsu and being able to Because this theory, the guy's theory, Orlando Cunning's theory was animals are perfect.

00:26:02.000 You know, they move and they breathe and they don't get tired and everything is in sync.

00:26:07.000 So his whole theory was the better you can do that, the more you can replicate that, the more you're going to be able to be efficient with whatever you do.

00:26:15.000 And the yoga for my dad, I guess, was a huge, huge part.

00:26:21.000 Since a little kid, he kind of always told me about breathing and yoga and I never cared and I just kind of brushed it off.

00:26:29.000 Until when you get older and you start really having difficulties, when you really start searching and really start having problems, Then I started to breathe more, and now I think that the breathing is a huge part of myself,

00:26:45.000 and it's a huge part of my growth, and it's a huge part of me being able to be in tune with what I'm doing.

00:26:51.000 So I wouldn't take away that for anything, and I think that's probably one of the biggest additions to myself that I could have added.

00:27:00.000 Yeah, the yoga breathing is a thing.

00:27:02.000 Pranayama, is that what they call it?

00:27:04.000 I don't know.

00:27:05.000 Yeah, pranayama is a huge part of what a lot of people are missing when it comes to the idea of yoga.

00:27:15.000 They don't understand that deep breathing and breathing exercises are...

00:27:20.000 They're very difficult to do.

00:27:22.000 It's very difficult and it becomes like a factor of motivation. 1.00

00:27:26.000 You can do this shit too, right? 1.00

00:27:27.000 The shit your dad does with the abdomen? 1.00

00:27:29.000 Of course, yeah, I do that. 1.00

00:27:30.000 What is that?

00:27:32.000 That crazy video.

00:27:33.000 Folks who haven't seen this, there's a documentary called Choke.

00:27:36.000 It's an amazing documentary.

00:27:38.000 And it was back when Hickson was competing in Japan Valley Tudo.

00:27:43.000 Was it like 1995 or something like that?

00:27:45.000 Yeah, 94, 95. And there's a video that Really, like, open up a lot of people's eyes of him doing yoga and moving his stomach around with these weird stomach exercises.

00:27:58.000 What is that?

00:27:59.000 So, your diaphragm...

00:28:01.000 Well, I can kind of explain, but basically...

00:28:05.000 Your lungs are like bottles.

00:28:09.000 They start skinny at the top and then they fill up to be big at the bottom.

00:28:14.000 So when you normally breathe, you're only filling up a small portion of your lungs.

00:28:20.000 And when you get scared or when you have anxiety, everything, it shortens your breath.

00:28:25.000 Panic breathing.

00:28:26.000 Yeah.

00:28:27.000 So that's what normally happens.

00:28:28.000 That's what's very normal for humans.

00:28:30.000 And being able to breathe through your diaphragm is filling your lungs to the max.

00:28:35.000 And being able to control that is...

00:28:38.000 So your diaphragm is a muscle and you need to train it.

00:28:41.000 Like a push-up or like anything you do, you need to train your muscle.

00:28:44.000 So the more you train your muscle, the more control you have over it.

00:28:48.000 And that is just being able to have the highest control of your diaphragm muscle.

00:28:53.000 And when you have that kind of control, you can filter your body out easier.

00:28:57.000 As opposed to, like right now, if you don't train it, you can't even, like, use your diaphragm.

00:29:03.000 So...

00:29:07.000 So just that simple movement is a difficult thing to do.

00:29:13.000 You have to train to do that.

00:29:14.000 And then being able to do the...

00:29:21.000 So what you're doing is you're breathing in deep, and then you're pulling your diaphragm in?

00:29:27.000 That actual exercise that you do is you exhale, you have no oxygen in your lungs, and then you just kind of massage your diaphragm, and you kind of just have that kind of control, so you're just practicing, like, how to move it.

00:29:41.000 Because when you're training and you're tired, and if you have to think about to breathe, it's already too much, so you should just have it...

00:29:47.000 It's like one of those things that start fire.

00:29:50.000 When you push out, when you open it up, it fills up naturally.

00:29:55.000 So if you learn how to breathe through your diaphragm, you naturally are going to filter way more oxygen and everything's going to be better.

00:30:04.000 That's the reason why I can train as long as I can train and why I can stay clear.

00:30:08.000 Normally, a lot of people, they get gassed out or they...

00:30:12.000 Or they feel like they're going to pass out or they get anxiety.

00:30:15.000 So being able to breathe correctly is a huge part of my growth, I think.

00:30:20.000 Did you learn that from your dad?

00:30:22.000 Yeah.

00:30:22.000 The diaphragm breathing?

00:30:23.000 Yeah.

00:30:23.000 What does he call it?

00:30:24.000 Is there a name for it?

00:30:25.000 No, because we're not necessarily like yoga crazy, you know.

00:30:30.000 I'm super into a specific type.

00:30:32.000 I think I just use yoga for my benefit and I'm not like a ride or die of a certain type of yoga.

00:30:38.000 I just kind of use yoga for what I do, for jujitsu and how to become a better person.

00:30:45.000 So I don't know exactly what the name is or anything.

00:30:47.000 It's just being able to breathe and being able to use my diaphragm and being able to stay calm.

00:30:51.000 Learn how to manage my energy.

00:30:54.000 So that has helped me not only with jiu-jitsu, but anything new I do, or if I'm going to come here on an interview, if I start to get nervous, you know, I breathe and it goes away.

00:31:03.000 So the breathing has helped me become, has given me really an opportunity to do everything that I can do.

00:31:09.000 Yeah, I do a lot of deep breathing exercises in a sensory deprivation tank.

00:31:14.000 And one of the things that I do is the long breathing.

00:31:18.000 Like, I'll have an inhale that lasts a minute.

00:31:21.000 And then the exhale lasts a minute.

00:31:23.000 And it's a discipline.

00:31:25.000 Like, you have to force yourself to maintain that pace.

00:31:27.000 Because you get to a panic, and you just want to... 1.00

00:31:31.000 Fuck this. 1.00

00:31:32.000 But you can stay alive and keep doing it. 1.00

00:31:36.000 You can do it.

00:31:36.000 And you can still stay alive and keep doing it.

00:31:38.000 But it becomes this weird thing where your body starts freaking out. 1.00

00:31:41.000 It's like, breathe, motherfucker. 1.00

00:31:42.000 Stop breathing out. 1.00

00:31:43.000 Breathe.

00:31:44.000 Breathe.

00:31:44.000 Breathe in.

00:31:45.000 But breathe out for a minute and then breathe in for a minute.

00:31:48.000 Breathe out for a minute.

00:31:49.000 Yeah, there is different types of exercise I know.

00:31:51.000 Like sometimes if I'm...

00:31:54.000 If I'm trying to stay calm, I'm going to breathe slower.

00:31:56.000 If I'm trying to get energy, I'm going to breathe faster.

00:31:58.000 If I'm trying to maintain a high pace, I'm going to...

00:32:01.000 You know, it's like a car.

00:32:02.000 When you drive a car, if you're driving slow, it's like...

00:32:04.000 But if you drive fast, the car's like...

00:32:09.000 So you need...

00:32:10.000 Like when I train, if I'm in a very intense session, I'll breathe loud like...

00:32:14.000 To make sure I'm getting enough oxygen to keep up with what I'm doing physically.

00:32:20.000 So I definitely...

00:32:23.000 I'm very grateful for being able to have that a part of my life, and it's cool, man.

00:32:28.000 It's really good.

00:32:29.000 I only experienced that breathing for the first time in jiu-jitsu after a lifelong of martial arts.

00:32:34.000 I'd never heard anybody breathe like that until I started training, and then at John Jacques Academy, and hearing people, you know, hearing, like, black belts roll, like, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh. 0.99

00:32:46.000 I hear guys roll like, what the fuck are they doing? 0.98

00:32:48.000 I was a white bear, looking around, everybody doing it. 0.99

00:32:50.000 It was such a strange thing.

00:32:52.000 And Jean-Jacques explained to me that when you breathe out, you will definitely breathe in.

00:32:57.000 Force yourself to breathe out and then get rid of all the bad air in your body and breathe in fresh oxygen.

00:33:04.000 And then forcing it out is something that people don't concentrate enough on.

00:33:08.000 Yeah, when you normally want to breathe, you breathe in, and then that only fills up that top part, you know?

00:33:14.000 So if you, I mean, there's a lot about it, but I think it's definitely a huge part of my success today, and it's also a huge part of my dad's success.

00:33:23.000 Yeah, I would recommend to anybody who is interested in this to go and just look up various yoga breathing videos on YouTube and just follow along with them and you get a great benefit from that.

00:33:34.000 And it's something that people don't really think too much about, about concentrating and controlling your breathing.

00:33:40.000 And there's also a great meditative quality to that too.

00:33:44.000 One of the first breathing exercises I ever did when I was really young, somebody told me that you can meditate by just concentrating only on your breath.

00:33:53.000 Just not even a breathing exercise, but just breathe in good and out bad, and think of nothing but those things.

00:34:00.000 Think as you're breathing in, you're taking in oxygen, and as you're breathing out, you're just pumping out in with the good, out with the bad.

00:34:06.000 Just think of those things, and think only of your breath.

00:34:09.000 And by forcing yourself to concentrate on that, it sort of filters out everything in your life, and it all becomes like background.

00:34:14.000 Everything else sort of calms down, and you get this feeling after you're done doing that.

00:34:19.000 If you do that for an hour, it just...

00:34:21.000 Everything else, sort of like, the importance of things that you thought were so big and so crazy in your life and, oh, this is fucked up, what am I going to do about that? 0.89

00:34:29.000 It seems less important after that.

00:34:32.000 Yeah, I think the breathing keeps me in touch with my spirituality and being able to breathe.

00:34:37.000 Like, I've gotten into some super gnarly trances where I'm, you know, really connected to whatever is above us and that's through the breathing.

00:34:49.000 So that, like...

00:34:50.000 Being able to breathe after your training or during your training or however you like to do it has given me huge, huge benefits.

00:35:00.000 I connect myself to when I'm training.

00:35:03.000 Being able to breathe puts me in a very animal-like state where it's me against you.

00:35:10.000 I'm not thinking about what you're doing.

00:35:12.000 I'm not thinking about I am thinking about what you're doing, but I'm not thinking about things.

00:35:17.000 It's more of like a feeling, and that feeling, the closer you are to that feeling, it keeps you almost above your mind, above you can actually think.

00:35:27.000 It's more like an animal instinct.

00:35:32.000 Since I started to really incorporate the breathing and connecting it to my jiu-jitsu, it's given me way more...

00:35:39.000 Well there's a whole group of people that use breathing, it's called holotropic breathing, and they use it to achieve psychedelic states.

00:35:48.000 I've achieved psychedelic states for sure.

00:35:51.000 What's the most intense state you've ever achieved while breathing?

00:35:53.000 Oh, I mean, a couple times after training when I'm really exhausted, like I'm very, very, very, very exhausted to a point where you wanted to stop training like 30, 40 minutes before.

00:36:05.000 And then after, I'll do a breathing and breathing, and I'll just keep going into the breathing, and as I start to breathe and start to get more in tune, nothing exists, and it's just me, and I can almost see the particles in the air, and I can...

00:36:20.000 It's just like a sensation that I've only felt a couple of times, but I definitely have gotten in touch with...

00:36:26.000 It's very intense to get to that point where you just feel...

00:36:32.000 It's almost like you can see the air.

00:36:34.000 It's almost like you can see all these little things, and it's pretty intense.

00:36:40.000 So I've gotten to that point a couple of times, three or four points, where I feel like...

00:36:46.000 Where I can actually feel the energy.

00:36:50.000 It was a great thing, man.

00:36:52.000 After you feel high and you smile and you're like, man, this is crazy.

00:36:56.000 It's crazy how much we're capable of as humans and how much we do is so big.

00:37:04.000 You think about the actual world and how the actual world is.

00:37:09.000 It's like this planet.

00:37:11.000 We should be in touch with something above.

00:37:13.000 We should be able to be in touch with how this got to this or how there's water.

00:37:18.000 So all these things that we today are like, oh no, that's this, that's this, or this is that.

00:37:23.000 It's so much more. 0.99

00:37:24.000 You can't explain shit. 0.99

00:37:27.000 I go a lot more about my feelings these days than anything else. 0.98

00:37:31.000 Over my rational decision, I kind of try to feel how things are.

00:37:34.000 I feel how people are.

00:37:36.000 I feel how...

00:37:37.000 How I feel, how I feel about this training session, whatever it is, I kind of try to go more about feeling because that's never failed me before.

00:37:45.000 So these breathing techniques and these states that you achieve, they give you a sort of a fresh perspective.

00:37:52.000 They give you a perspective of recognizing the greatness and the beauty and the magnitude of life that sometimes escapes us in our normal everyday path where You know, you just sort of take for granted that that's a door, this is the house, go outside, that's the sky, it becomes normal,

00:38:08.000 but these breathing techniques and the psychedelic states that you achieve from them allow you to, it's almost like a reset button.

00:38:17.000 It's pretty cool, man.

00:38:18.000 I really recommend breathing.

00:38:20.000 And for anybody who is doing anything in their life, whether it be something, you know, whether you're trying to get through a tough situation, whether you're arguing with your girlfriend, or whether you're stuck in traffic, or whether you're trying to stay calm while somebody's trying to choke you, the breathing has given me,

00:38:36.000 and it took a long time.

00:38:37.000 It's not like, oh, boom, I started breathing, I got it.

00:38:40.000 It actually took a long time before you really value it.

00:38:43.000 Because when my dad started telling me this, I kind of didn't care.

00:38:46.000 And I was just like, whatever.

00:38:48.000 He's got all kinds of... 1.00

00:38:49.000 She's always telling me shit. 1.00

00:38:52.000 But after, you know... 0.99

00:38:55.000 The older I got the more I kind of started to have stress and have to deal with this pressure and then I kind of started to do it every once in a while and then now it's at a point where the past few years I've really stepped it up a lot and it's really a big part of my training and everything I do.

00:39:13.000 So even when I skateboard now I'm like trying to breathe and I'm trying to like keep everything in tune so I can do the best I can do.

00:39:21.000 The last time When we had dinner together, your dad was still talking about competing.

00:39:28.000 He had stopped, but he was still thinking about fighting.

00:39:34.000 There was always a thread on the underground.

00:39:37.000 One of the big themes on the underground is Hickson by armbar.

00:39:40.000 They would joke around about anything.

00:39:43.000 Who would win Godzilla vs.

00:39:45.000 King Kong?

00:39:45.000 Hickson by armbar.

00:39:47.000 It was just an inside joke.

00:39:49.000 Something couldn't be answered, someone would just write Hickson via armbar.

00:39:55.000 Did he have any regrets that he didn't fight any of the big name guys, that he didn't continue?

00:40:01.000 We were talking about him fighting Fedor.

00:40:04.000 He was saying that if he did fight someone, he would want to fight Fedor, who was the champ of pride at the time.

00:40:10.000 Yeah, I think that, I don't know if there's any regrets or anything.

00:40:14.000 I think it was just a time in my dad's life where, well, right after my brother passed, you know, he got offered to fight Sakuraba, and it was a big, big payday, and it was a big, big fight.

00:40:27.000 And, of course, my dad, being the man he is, he wasn't going to just leave the family to go train for a fight and to take his selfish needs into consideration.

00:40:38.000 So he kind of just turned away the fight and kind of gave his energy to the family and tried to do what he could to help everybody.

00:40:47.000 After that time passes there's still like some some people wanting to have him fight and he was maybe fighting fatal or maybe this but I think after that moment he kind of just the time passed you know his fighting that time had passed for his even though it was a still possibility for him to fight I think that he necessarily He was ready to fight and as a man he was ready to die,

00:41:10.000 but I don't think that necessarily it was...

00:41:14.000 I'm glad that he didn't fight after that.

00:41:16.000 I'm glad that he, you know, it happened the way it did and he retired the way he did and he still has, you know, the greatest image, so I think that it's...

00:41:26.000 I think it's a great thing that it went the way it did, you know, like...

00:41:31.000 My dad is a great fighter, and he's a great mind, and that separates him from everybody else, but I think that everything went fine, even though whatever happened, I think that he didn't need to fight.

00:41:42.000 He didn't need to prove anything to anybody else, and even if he did fight, win or lose, that wouldn't have been him at his best, you know?

00:41:51.000 So I think my dad did enough from when he was 15 to when he was 40. He proved enough people wrong.

00:41:57.000 He did what he had to do.

00:41:58.000 He was ready.

00:41:59.000 You know, you don't know what it's like.

00:42:01.000 Nobody knows what it's like to be having to be ready to fight to die at any moment. 1.00

00:42:06.000 Motherfuckers come in your academy and they challenge you. 1.00

00:42:08.000 You got this guy telling you that he doesn't believe in jiu-jitsu. 1.00

00:42:11.000 So nobody knows what that feels like to have to be ready.

00:42:14.000 Everybody now, oh, you want to fight?

00:42:15.000 Okay, give me three months or six months.

00:42:17.000 I'm going to train for my fight.

00:42:18.000 But to have to be ready at any time, any moment, no matter what, that's where my dad lived from 15 years old to 40 years old.

00:42:26.000 So he needed to retire.

00:42:28.000 He needed to be able to not be ready.

00:42:31.000 He needed to be able to release.

00:42:32.000 And I think that was the best thing for him and it was the best thing for his life.

00:42:36.000 And now I think it's all good and...

00:42:39.000 It's just a very tough situation, man.

00:42:41.000 A lot of people don't know how serious my dad took.

00:42:43.000 Of course people know how serious, but you only see the glory, you know?

00:42:47.000 You don't see how he really is as a man and how you really make it your life, you know?

00:42:53.000 And fighting is a big thing.

00:42:55.000 It's probably the hardest thing to do.

00:42:57.000 And, you know, that guy was ready at any time, anywhere, ready to prove, ready to prove the family was...

00:43:03.000 I was better, ready to prove that he was better.

00:43:07.000 That's what gives me inspiration to wake up in the mornings and do what I do.

00:43:11.000 I only really do it because of him and my brother.

00:43:14.000 I only really compete because of him and my brother.

00:43:17.000 My motivation is to keep him happy and to keep this family remembered instead of just, The Gracies were good when nobody knew Jiu Jitsu, but now everybody doesn't. 0.99

00:43:29.000 They're not the shit. 0.99

00:43:30.000 They're no matter. 0.99

00:43:31.000 So I think it's important for my life.

00:43:33.000 I've already kind of am willing to sacrifice my life and willing to sacrifice whatever I feel and how I like things to be for the bigger objective, which is to keep my father and my grandfather, you know, alive and well in their legacy.

00:43:48.000 Were you there for any of those challenge matches like when Anjo came to the dojo?

00:43:55.000 I was a little kid.

00:43:56.000 At that time I was like maybe four or five years old and I remember the days happening and it's happening.

00:44:02.000 I wasn't there at the specific invite because not even my dad was at the academy.

00:44:06.000 My dad was at home eating breakfast and the guys came and called him and was like, dude, guys in Japan are invading the academy.

00:44:13.000 So my dad got up and like, Got ready to go to the academy, and that was like another thing. 0.94

00:44:18.000 He just waked up, thought it was going to be another day for him to go on a bike ride, and then motherfuckers outside the academy ready to challenge you with all this press, and if you lose, it's just like a real fight. 0.89

00:44:30.000 For folks who don't know, that's one historical match that apparently... 0.95

00:44:35.000 Gordon Hester said he's seen the video. 0.98

00:44:38.000 Yoji Anjo, who's a pro wrestler and MMA fighter in Japan, just showed up at the academy and Hickson took him into a back room and beat the fucking shit out of him. 0.99

00:44:49.000 And your dad... 0.94

00:44:51.000 You know, he came out and, you know, Yoji Anjo's face, there's photos of his face online where you can see what your dad did to him.

00:44:58.000 But, you know, I've heard all sorts of stories about the way he choked him and all sorts of, you know, I don't know.

00:45:06.000 True story, true story.

00:45:07.000 I've seen the video many times and I used to bring my friends over when I was a kid and show them the fights and everything.

00:45:11.000 There's Anjo's face up on that screen.

00:45:13.000 So the story behind that is he came into the academy, and it's a long story, but I'll kind of sum it up.

00:45:19.000 Basically, he came in to challenge my dad, and my dad was like, okay, fine.

00:45:22.000 So he shows up at the academy, and they kicked all the press out because he didn't want them to film in case whatever happened.

00:45:29.000 So he kicked all the press out, and then just the guy, Anjo, and his manager were in the academy.

00:45:36.000 My dad's black belt was having a class, so there was a bunch of students there. 0.99

00:45:41.000 And yeah, man, just like everybody says, my dad beat the shit out of this guy. 0.99

00:45:45.000 Like this guy came in and my dad instantly took him down, mounted him, beat him up. 0.97

00:45:48.000 And in the beginning of the fight, the guy turned his back to try to get put to sleep because he realized he was going to lose.

00:45:54.000 So he gave him his back to get put to sleep.

00:45:55.000 And my dad was like, no, you're going to take more punishment.

00:45:58.000 You're not going to get put to sleep so easily, you know?

00:46:00.000 So he kept beating him bad.

00:46:02.000 And it was like, it was hard to see, you know, even as a kid.

00:46:04.000 And he broke his nose.

00:46:05.000 You can hear his nose break.

00:46:07.000 It's a pretty big beating.

00:46:08.000 And then after he fought, put him to sleep, he called the press and the press came in and took pictures and everything.

00:46:16.000 Anjo went back to Japan saying that he got jumped by the academy, that we all jumped him.

00:46:21.000 And then my dad had filmed it.

00:46:25.000 Brought the video to Japan and was like, look, this is the fight.

00:46:28.000 Showed it all the press.

00:46:29.000 And they were like, oh, yeah.

00:46:31.000 They all thought it was very bad that he had lied and said that he got jumped in front of TV. So anyways, yeah, that fight is true. 0.78

00:46:40.000 Why doesn't he put that online?

00:46:42.000 I don't know.

00:46:42.000 That's a good question.

00:46:44.000 It's martial arts history.

00:46:46.000 Yeah, I'll talk to him about it.

00:46:47.000 Please!

00:46:48.000 Put it on iTunes.

00:46:49.000 You'll probably make $100,000.

00:46:51.000 You'll probably make $100,000.

00:46:56.000 Easy.

00:46:57.000 I think so. 1.00

00:46:58.000 Fuck yeah! 1.00

00:46:59.000 I'll promote it. 1.00

00:47:00.000 Let me know, man.

00:47:01.000 Let me know when it's up.

00:47:02.000 I'll put it on Twitter.

00:47:03.000 I'll put it on the podcast.

00:47:04.000 I'll let people know.

00:47:05.000 I'd pay a buck to watch that. 1.00

00:47:07.000 I'll pay $20 to watch that shit. 1.00

00:47:09.000 To me, that's one of the great challenge matches in martial arts history. 1.00

00:47:14.000 I mean, there's your dad versus Hugo Duarte on the beach in Rio.

00:47:19.000 There's a few of those that you can see. 0.99

00:47:22.000 There's a few of those, which is fucking crazy. 0.96

00:47:24.000 I mean, they were duking it out on the beach, in the sand. 0.96

00:47:29.000 It was pretty wild.

00:47:32.000 You can see that, but...

00:47:34.000 That wasn't the prolonged beating. 1.00

00:47:36.000 He let him up after he kicked his ass. 0.98

00:47:38.000 I think my dad, because there were so many videos of everybody fighting the Gracie in action videos that came out, all these videos were out, I think my dad just wanted to keep something for himself and wanted to have some kind of power because everybody had taken all the footage and everything was used in whichever way. 0.98

00:47:54.000 My dad probably never got paid a cent for the Gracie in action videos. 0.99

00:47:58.000 Or anything.

00:47:58.000 So I think he just wanted to keep something that he had power in.

00:48:03.000 And it was good, you know.

00:48:04.000 At this moment, he has, you know, value to that.

00:48:07.000 Yeah.

00:48:08.000 And more value over here, probably.

00:48:09.000 More than $1.99.

00:48:11.000 50 bucks.

00:48:13.000 There was also, from the outside, there was always the talk was always, especially because, you know, I've been working for the UFC since 97, so the people that I was working with, like Campbell McLaren and all those guys, they had been there from UFC 1. And they were,

00:48:29.000 you know, they had said that the reason why your uncle didn't put your brother in, or didn't put your father in, instead put hoist in, that the reason why he did that was because he couldn't control Hickson.

00:48:41.000 Yeah.

00:48:42.000 That Hickson was just, you know, he was the best of the family.

00:48:45.000 Everybody knew he was the best of the family, but that Horian knew that if he put Hickson in, that Hickson wasn't going to, you know, Hickson was going to do whatever he wanted to.

00:48:54.000 He wasn't going to listen to him, and he wouldn't be able to control him the way he possibly controlled everybody else.

00:49:00.000 Is there any, is there truth to that, or what is...

00:49:02.000 So, there's a lot of different things that happen in that kind of time and era, you know.

00:49:09.000 One reason why Hoist fought in the UFC and not my dad, because my dad was the best.

00:49:13.000 My dad would tap out Hoist with one hand in his belt before his fight.

00:49:16.000 So there was no doubt of that.

00:49:19.000 One excuse, I think, was that Hoist looked more frail.

00:49:24.000 He looked like more of a normal guy.

00:49:25.000 So they wanted that to be able to prove that Jiu-Jitsu was better.

00:49:30.000 But ultimately, I don't know if that's true or not.

00:49:34.000 And I don't know the exact reason, but basically before that situation, Horian and my dad, they kind of started to separate.

00:49:43.000 They kind of started to go their own ways.

00:49:46.000 And I think in that situation, again, I don't know 100%, but that's what I kind of think happened.

00:49:53.000 I'm sure Horian felt more control over Hoist than he did over my father.

00:49:59.000 My dad was kind of already starting to find his own way and do his own thing.

00:50:04.000 I don't know too much about it because we never really talked about that far back.

00:50:09.000 I think I have talked to my dad about it, but I forget because that's not really that important these days for me.

00:50:14.000 Well, you know, Horian gets a lot of grief, but, I mean, he was such a great promoter of jiu-jitsu, and if it wasn't for him doing that, it wasn't for him putting on those Gracie in Action videos and promoting them and promoting jiu-jitsu and promoting Gracie jiu-jitsu,

00:50:32.000 it would have...

00:50:33.000 Yeah, Horian has a huge part of what jiu-jitsu and what MMA is today at.

00:50:38.000 He definitely made his value huge, you know, because not only did he...

00:50:43.000 He created the UFC, but he, you know, came to America.

00:50:47.000 He spread it.

00:50:48.000 He was the one doing all the challenges and doing everything.

00:50:51.000 So he was the reason, really.

00:50:54.000 And my dad was just the soldier, was the guy, the one representing and ready to do what he had to do.

00:51:00.000 And, you know, it's like Carlos and Elio.

00:51:04.000 Eli was the representative and Carlos was the guy who kind of took care of the academy and had the theory behind the diets and the theory behind the names and had this stuff.

00:51:12.000 So I think neither one of them, I think they're both responsible for the movement.

00:51:18.000 And yeah, I think it was a great thing.

00:51:21.000 Horian, like even his academy, you look at his academy, it's like a museum, you know?

00:51:26.000 Yeah.

00:51:26.000 It's like a five-star hotel with 20 shower heads.

00:51:29.000 Look at my academy.

00:51:30.000 It's nothing like that.

00:51:30.000 My academy has some pictures and stuff, but it's not focused on that.

00:51:35.000 My focusing is on the mats.

00:51:36.000 We train what I teach.

00:51:38.000 I'm not focused on promoting and being able to sell jiu-jitsu and being able to expand wide.

00:51:45.000 For me, you're going to come to me and train with me if you know and you want to.

00:51:52.000 And Horian, he did a great job in expanding and showing the world in your face, like, here, look, this is what happens when this happens, and this is...

00:52:00.000 So he was a great tool for the family and a great, you know, he made it happen, you know, he created it a lot.

00:52:08.000 Yeah, all of us fans of jiu-jitsu, oh, Horian Gracie, a huge debt of gratitude.

00:52:13.000 Without a doubt.

00:52:14.000 And also because he produced his sons that are also great promoters of jiu-jitsu.

00:52:19.000 The Gracie breakdowns are one of my favorite things about after submissions.

00:52:23.000 After there's a submission in the UFC, Henner and Huron will get together and...

00:52:29.000 Discuss with great technical explanation all the various aspects of where someone went wrong, where things went right, what was the proper adjustment, what they did to get out of a bad situation.

00:52:42.000 Really very, very educational.

00:52:44.000 If you watch that show, UFC Ultimate Insider, it's on UFC Ultimate Insider.

00:52:49.000 It's so great because, first of all, Hanner is so good at explaining these things.

00:52:55.000 He's so articulate and so charismatic when it comes to these breakdowns of positions.

00:53:01.000 There's so much enthusiasm.

00:53:03.000 You know, you watch these guys talk about these things and it makes you want to train.

00:53:06.000 I mean, it really does.

00:53:08.000 It's really good stuff.

00:53:10.000 And it just shows how much is going on with jiu-jitsu.

00:53:13.000 For folks who don't know, There's so much going on.

00:53:18.000 For people who don't know, they're looking and they think, oh, this guy's trying to choke that guy and he's trying to stop it.

00:53:23.000 But it's all about the positions and the intricate details of leverage and movement.

00:53:28.000 And these guys do a real good job breaking that down.

00:53:31.000 Yeah, they do do a great job breaking it down.

00:53:33.000 And personally, for me, I've never been one to teach online or through magazines or through stuff.

00:53:39.000 I believe that jiu-jitsu is a lot more about feel.

00:53:42.000 And I kind of don't do that.

00:53:45.000 I kind of disagree with myself teaching online or through videos and all that stuff.

00:53:51.000 I want to be able to feel and look somebody in the eyes if I'm going to teach them jiu-jitsu.

00:53:56.000 And so, yeah, that's my philosophy behind that.

00:54:00.000 But, you know, they're doing a great job of spreading it to all those people who can't get to them.

00:54:05.000 And they do what they do.

00:54:06.000 I'm not really too in control of what they do or how they do it.

00:54:10.000 But I know for myself, I kind of don't do that.

00:54:13.000 And I kind of stick to, you know, my academy and where I teach.

00:54:18.000 And I focus on that kind of stuff.

00:54:20.000 Right.

00:54:21.000 What I'm just talking about is their explanations of jiu-jitsu and MMA. Oh yeah, those guys are great explanators.

00:54:27.000 You know, those guys, they explain to the T. It's one of the more difficult aspects of doing commentary is explaining, not just recognizing positions and what's going to happen, but explaining to people positions and explaining where the defense is,

00:54:43.000 where the offense is, and doing it all in real time while the mad scrambles are going on and trying to like...

00:54:49.000 You know what arms in jeopardy.

00:54:51.000 Is that the left arm or the left arm?

00:54:52.000 You've got to process all this stuff in your head.

00:54:54.000 Does he have his hand?

00:54:55.000 Is his hands locked?

00:54:56.000 I can't see.

00:54:57.000 And try to put it all together and then explain it to the layman, explain it to the person who doesn't train at home where it's just a mass of bodies.

00:55:05.000 That's why I just focus on competing and training.

00:55:07.000 That's what's better for me.

00:55:10.000 Competing, training, and teaching. 0.99

00:55:11.000 I like that philosophy of looking someone in the eye and training them because There is that aspect of if you put a video out there, you don't know who's learning your shit, you know? 0.99

00:55:21.000 Yeah, of course. 0.99

00:55:22.000 It's very personal, right?

00:55:23.000 Jiu-jitsu.

00:55:24.000 It's very personal.

00:55:25.000 I think so, too.

00:55:26.000 And while I'm still competing, the last thing I want is my enemies to be able to see what I do and see how I do things.

00:55:32.000 So, yeah, there's no way I would do that.

00:55:35.000 One of the interesting aspects about you and your jiu-jitsu career, too, is that there's a lot of variation in jiu-jitsu and jiu-jitsu styles.

00:55:44.000 There's a lot of new stuff that's come along, a lot of new techniques, a lot of new strategies.

00:55:49.000 But your attacks and your jiu-jitsu are very much like your father's.

00:55:54.000 It's very much traditional jiu-jitsu.

00:55:57.000 There was a time when Vinny Magalhães was on The Ultimate Fighter with Minotauro Noguera.

00:56:05.000 And he was talking about Minotaro Nogueira's jiu-jitsu and he said it's very basic, very basic jiu-jitsu.

00:56:10.000 Minotaro got really mad at him.

00:56:11.000 But he said he didn't mean it in a bad way.

00:56:14.000 What he meant by it's the basics but honed to a laser sharp edge.

00:56:21.000 There's nothing wrong with the basics.

00:56:23.000 They're the foundation of jiu-jitsu.

00:56:25.000 And when I watch you compete, you're using the real traditional techniques of jiu-jitsu.

00:56:32.000 There's nothing tricky that people haven't seen before.

00:56:38.000 It's just jiu-jitsu that's done to perfection.

00:56:41.000 Yeah, I think that...

00:56:46.000 The tricks, they work sometimes and they work if it's a good moment, you know, like these new things that happen and these new ways to defeat your opponent.

00:56:54.000 So I'm always looking for a situation that's going to work all the time.

00:57:01.000 So these tricks, the good positions, they demand a lot out of you and they only work if that situation happens.

00:57:08.000 So I'm not concerned with trapping myself into a position that's good for me because I count on not being in good positions.

00:57:15.000 I count on being in a bad position.

00:57:17.000 I count on being in all the positions.

00:57:19.000 So for me, I'm leaving my training sessions open to what may happen.

00:57:25.000 And I don't...

00:57:27.000 Like try to get to a certain position and then begin my training.

00:57:31.000 That's what I feel like happens most of the time in Jiu Jitsu these days is you want to get to this grip and this sleeve grip and then from here you're going to start training.

00:57:40.000 So to get to that position where you have your special grips and everything, it takes a lot of energy and it takes a lot of strength.

00:57:46.000 And I kind of base my Jiu Jitsu on leverage and technique so that it'll work when I'm fresh, when I'm tired, if I'm fighting a guy who's bigger than me.

00:57:54.000 It doesn't depend on physical strength.

00:57:56.000 So that's where my dad kind of forced me because I didn't always think like this.

00:58:01.000 And he kind of giving me not only the technique and the leverage, but showing me that it's possible.

00:58:09.000 Proving to me firsthand that it's possible for you to beat your opponents with leverage.

00:58:13.000 To not use strength.

00:58:15.000 So my dad, you know, been promoting...

00:58:19.000 This like little mini warrior in my mind for a long time of how to be not only mentally but physically and training wise and spiritually and it's been...

00:58:28.000 It's all helped me and he's a great huge part of my success.

00:58:34.000 One of the things I took from the conversation with your dad, we were talking about the various aspects of Jiu Jitsu, but he was saying that first and foremost...

00:58:42.000 One of the most important weapons that he has is his defense.

00:58:45.000 That he's always safe.

00:58:46.000 He said, in any position, I'm always safe.

00:58:49.000 He doesn't, you know, he concentrates on that.

00:58:52.000 And then the other thing was that when he moved from one position, I'll never forget this conversation.

00:58:57.000 He goes, we all start at point zero.

00:59:00.000 And he goes, from zero in the neutral point, I move to one.

00:59:03.000 And when I get to one, I'm not going back to zero.

00:59:07.000 Isn't that what he sounds like?

00:59:09.000 Yeah, he's a very interesting person, you know.

00:59:12.000 But it's true.

00:59:13.000 If you watch his fights, he rarely loses positions.

00:59:16.000 There's no sloppy scrambles.

00:59:17.000 It's one of the things that I criticize people sometimes about in MMA. Guys leave too much space.

00:59:22.000 They go for things in a way that they're not in control of the position.

00:59:26.000 And he never did that. 0.99

00:59:28.000 When he would mount a guy, that motherfucker would stay mounted. 0.99

00:59:31.000 When he mounted a guy, it was just a matter of time before he got an armbar or whatever he got for you. 0.99

00:59:35.000 Yeah, it's pretty cool to see that, I guess, everything in life, everything goes back to the basics.

00:59:42.000 I didn't plan to have a certain type of style.

00:59:46.000 I didn't like, oh, I'm going to just try to train this style with just submissions only.

00:59:51.000 No, I didn't plan that.

00:59:53.000 I'm planning...

00:59:54.000 And it's not like, oh, I'm going to start a fight and I'm just going to go for an armlock or I'm going to go for a crazy submission from nowhere.

00:59:59.000 It's not like that either.

01:00:00.000 You're not going to get that.

01:00:01.000 But my training sessions are to, like my dad said, to get to the next better position, to get to the next better position, to get to the submission.

01:00:09.000 So I'm never stopping my mind.

01:00:11.000 I'm never stopping my training.

01:00:12.000 I don't stop in a place and be like, okay, I'm going to breathe here for a second.

01:00:17.000 No, I don't do that.

01:00:18.000 I kind of always am looking for the next place to get to the finish line.

01:00:24.000 That's created a very aggressive style because I'm always looking for the next place to be and it's not necessarily like, oh, I just go for submissions from anywhere.

01:00:33.000 No.

01:00:34.000 Sometimes it may be to pass the guard or maybe to get his leg off my hip or whatever it is that may happen.

01:00:41.000 So it's not like I'm just thinking about submissions or I'm not thinking about doing crazy, tricky stuff.

01:00:48.000 It's just that those stuff may not fall into what I'm mentally trying to do.

01:00:53.000 Your objective.

01:00:54.000 My objective.

01:00:55.000 And I think that's the biggest thing.

01:00:56.000 I don't think too much about it.

01:00:57.000 I just think about how am I going to get to a next better place?

01:01:00.000 How am I going to put him, you know, here?

01:01:02.000 So it just comes kind of naturally.

01:01:05.000 At this point, I can't even not train that way.

01:01:08.000 If I try to train... 0.90

01:01:10.000 In a different way, my jiu-jitsu sucks.

01:01:14.000 So I'm glad, I'm very grateful that it's become like this and I have this type of style and I've gotten as good as I got with the basics and with the tools that I had.

01:01:25.000 So I'm super stoked.

01:01:26.000 That became an issue in Abu Dhabi with a lot of wrestlers.

01:01:30.000 Wrestlers would take guys down and just hold them in positions and not go for submissions.

01:01:34.000 Just try to go for points.

01:01:36.000 And people would get furious.

01:01:39.000 They'd be like, well, this isn't jujitsu.

01:01:40.000 But some people felt like the only way to compete with these guys is to do what they're doing, is to fight smart.

01:01:45.000 The only way you can win is to fight on points.

01:01:49.000 Would you rather lose on points or...

01:01:53.000 Than win by holding a guy down?

01:01:55.000 Yeah, I have lost like that.

01:01:58.000 Doesn't bother you though.

01:01:59.000 It does. 0.99

01:02:00.000 I mean, you show me a good loser, I'll show you a loser, buddy. 0.98

01:02:05.000 But, you know, yeah.

01:02:08.000 I'd rather lose on points with keeping my mentality always with the objective to get into a better place than to stop my game and try to find out how I'm going to win this match while using the time on my side.

01:02:22.000 So I have fought matches where I lost when I could have won.

01:02:26.000 I was winning on points.

01:02:28.000 And then I went for something or I tried to advance the position and I lost it and then whatever, the guy swept me and then I lost because the time ran out.

01:02:35.000 So I have lost matches like that.

01:02:37.000 And it served as a good learning experience and everything.

01:02:40.000 And, you know, yeah, I'd rather lose on points than to sit there and stop the game and wait for the time to...

01:02:48.000 To run out.

01:02:49.000 Because I don't know if I... I would feel like shit, you know? 0.97

01:02:52.000 I feel like... 0.98

01:02:52.000 Deep inside me, I have a thing that I feel like really bad if I don't try to go for the next position. 0.98

01:02:59.000 I feel guilty almost.

01:03:00.000 So you're...

01:03:00.000 I feel like my grandfather's like...

01:03:02.000 From heaven, look down.

01:03:04.000 I'm angry at you.

01:03:06.000 So your jujitsu and your path is clearly a work in progress.

01:03:11.000 And even though you've achieved the great heights of being an Abu Dhabi world champion, while you're training and fighting, you're always competing with that very specific mindset.

01:03:20.000 So any setbacks are just going to be educational experiences.

01:03:23.000 You learn from those setbacks, and then next time you're even greater.

01:03:27.000 Which is why, I mean, you came in, was it second place in 2011? 0.63

01:03:31.000 Third place in 2011, then came back and fucking dominated in 2013. That was a big leap, man. 0.88

01:03:38.000 That was a good one.

01:03:40.000 Honestly, I think I was ready for it.

01:03:43.000 Maybe if I would have won in 2011, it wouldn't have been the same.

01:03:46.000 Or if I won in 2009, who knows what would happen.

01:03:50.000 But I feel like now I'm ready.

01:03:53.000 I don't make more excuses about anything.

01:03:55.000 And if I don't win, it's my fault.

01:03:57.000 If the guy was good enough to stall me out, He was good enough to stall me out.

01:04:02.000 So I have to come up with something to be able to be better than he is.

01:04:06.000 So I don't really take it and criticize him anymore if the guy just stalls on me.

01:04:10.000 I expect that the guys are not going to want to fight me and that they're going to want to stall and get some points and feel good.

01:04:15.000 I expect that.

01:04:16.000 And I train that situation and I'm ready for that.

01:04:20.000 So far, so good.

01:04:21.000 I've been on a good run lately.

01:04:24.000 Have you ever seen the video where Eddie Bravo and I were talking about your match?

01:04:28.000 For folks who don't know, in the finals, the dude was trying to stall Krohn out, and Hickson starts making chicken noises.

01:04:39.000 He's going... 0.96

01:04:43.000 And for a jujitsu guy, I mean, you want to talk about the ultimate mindfuck. 0.98

01:04:48.000 You're not just fighting against the son of the greatest ever, but the greatest ever is making chicken noises at you. 0.99

01:04:55.000 Yeah, that was fucked up because... 0.99

01:04:58.000 Because it started... 0.98

01:05:00.000 When he did that, I was like, man, now I can't let this get to me too, you know?

01:05:05.000 Because my dad is over here like...

01:05:07.000 Of course, I have to kind of try to keep...

01:05:10.000 In the final match, I fought a guy who I had beaten many times before.

01:05:14.000 So...

01:05:16.000 I knew that I could win, but if I were to start letting myself believe that I was gonna win, oh I'm gonna win because I had already won, it was gonna completely mess up my mind.

01:05:26.000 So I went into the fight like it was the most difficult fight of my life and when my dad started to get frustrated, I knew he was gonna back away.

01:05:33.000 I knew he was gonna stall me out and it was not getting to me.

01:05:36.000 I was just like trying to do what I could do.

01:05:38.000 I'm not gonna go crazy because he's not wanting to fight me.

01:05:41.000 I was expecting that the refs were going to warn him and take away points, and I was going to let that happen.

01:05:47.000 And, yeah, when my dad was like...

01:05:49.000 When he did that, I was like...

01:05:53.000 I was like, man, I can't...

01:05:55.000 Cron, don't let it get to you. 1.00

01:05:56.000 Don't let that shit get to you, man. 1.00

01:05:58.000 Don't think... 1.00

01:05:58.000 Don't let he... 1.00

01:06:00.000 You have to make it so that you and your dad are fighting together, not against each other.

01:06:05.000 I didn't want to let what he said affect my train and thought, put more pressure on me to have to do something.

01:06:10.000 So I kind of kept my cool, and thank God shortly after that, he got a point taken away for stalling, and then he went for the takedown, and I got him in a good guillotine.

01:06:21.000 So it all worked out as well, and that victory right there, right there, is like the happiest moment of my life.

01:06:28.000 The greatest feeling ever.

01:06:29.000 And I think my dad's still so happy.

01:06:32.000 I mean, I haven't seen my dad this happy.

01:06:34.000 Everybody who comes up and talks to me is like, your dad hasn't been this happy in so long.

01:06:37.000 And to see him so proud and so stoked, you know, to finally achieve that number one place is a...

01:06:44.000 It's a good thing.

01:06:45.000 It was such a beautiful, poetic moment, too.

01:06:47.000 When the guy shoots for the takedown, you immediately lock it up.

01:06:49.000 Like, this is why this guy was stalling in the first place.

01:06:52.000 Right into the jaws of death.

01:06:54.000 Bam! 0.98

01:06:55.000 You locked that thing on perfect, too.

01:06:57.000 That was beautiful.

01:06:58.000 I mean, he tapped out within a couple of seconds.

01:07:00.000 It was over.

01:07:01.000 Yeah, when he went for it.

01:07:02.000 I mean, I have...

01:07:04.000 I'm dangerous from a lot of different places, you know, but when he went for my legs, I was like, thanks, buddy.

01:07:11.000 I was like, dude, this is a great Christmas present.

01:07:14.000 Like, boom, everything fits so good.

01:07:16.000 And it was a good, good, I mean, it was a great showing.

01:07:21.000 And that success at that competition kind of just came from a lot of...

01:07:25.000 I trained my ass off.

01:07:26.000 I sacrificed everything in life.

01:07:30.000 That's what you've got to do when you want something.

01:07:32.000 Whatever field it is, you have to really see what you want.

01:07:37.000 I saw my potential and I used it.

01:07:42.000 Anybody who saw me train saw how hard I trained for that fight.

01:07:45.000 I was ready to win.

01:07:46.000 Yeah, you want to see something crazy, pull up Crone Gracie Ninja Training. 0.56

01:07:50.000 It's some bars in Santa Monica.

01:07:53.000 I saw this the other day.

01:07:54.000 Somebody put it on my message board on the thread of this particular podcast when the podcast was announced.

01:08:01.000 Do you do this often?

01:08:03.000 There's this wild video of you climbing up on these bars in Santa Monica You climb to the top, and then you're swinging.

01:08:10.000 Here's a video.

01:08:13.000 How often do you do this?

01:08:14.000 I mean, I live in Santa Monica, so I go there all the time, and I kind of always do just some workouts, and I like to be at the beach and in the ocean.

01:08:21.000 But this is just like a joke, you know?

01:08:23.000 It's just kind of a little trick, you know?

01:08:26.000 Yeah, well, this little trick, he's jumping nine feet from one bar to the next, swinging, and then catching with his arms like a monkey. 1.00

01:08:35.000 This is some wild shit, dude. 1.00

01:08:37.000 This is some chimpanzee shit. 1.00

01:08:39.000 That day, Nate was the one filming that, and he was super stoked on it. 1.00

01:08:43.000 How often do you do that?

01:08:45.000 I go down to the bars at least once or twice a week, just to kind of, you know, I do the ropes, and I climb the ropes for my forearms, and I do some pull-ups and stuff.

01:08:52.000 But, you know, that's never, like, the biggest part of my training.

01:08:55.000 It's never the most important thing.

01:08:57.000 It's always come secondary to training jiu-jitsu and my specific stuff I got going on.

01:09:02.000 When you train all day every day, you gotta find ways to keep yourself entertained and keep yourself enjoying what you're doing.

01:09:08.000 And I hate being in a gym.

01:09:10.000 I hate being in a gym.

01:09:11.000 A weightlifting gym, you mean?

01:09:13.000 Yeah, a weightlifting gym.

01:09:14.000 I hate being in there like working out.

01:09:16.000 So if I'm gonna go on a bike ride, I'll go outside.

01:09:18.000 If I'm gonna run, I'll go outside.

01:09:20.000 I like to feel the fresh air and kind of enjoy myself while I'm in this kind of hell that I live in.

01:09:27.000 This kind of hell perpetual training, you mean?

01:09:30.000 Yeah.

01:09:30.000 How much physical training do you do besides the jiu-jitsu?

01:09:34.000 I do a lot of jujitsu and I do a lot of everything.

01:09:38.000 I run, I bike, I swim, I do...

01:09:42.000 And when you do it, what are the objectives?

01:09:44.000 When you do your running, are you monitoring your heart rate?

01:09:47.000 Are you doing sprints?

01:09:48.000 Are you doing Tabata intervals?

01:09:50.000 How do you do that?

01:09:51.000 I do all the different types.

01:09:52.000 Sometimes I do just a long-distance run where I'll run an hour and 10 or an hour and 20 minutes straight.

01:09:58.000 And then the goal for that would be endurance.

01:10:02.000 And then I'll do some days where I'll just do sprints upstairs or some days I'll just do long bike rides.

01:10:08.000 You know, all those things that kind of just...

01:10:11.000 Some days it's more explosive and some days it's more long distance.

01:10:14.000 And I just use it as a tool, like as an addition to all the things I do.

01:10:19.000 And I felt like...

01:10:21.000 Since I really started to put my energy into other things, it's made my jiu-jitsu better because the more in life when you sacrifice in one direction, no matter what it is, it makes you better.

01:10:32.000 I don't know how.

01:10:33.000 I don't know what.

01:10:33.000 It's like something with the universe where even if you say, oh, I'm going to wake up at 6 in the morning to go do 20 push-ups and then go back to sleep, that is going to make you better at what you do because you are going to start to Create this energy to achieve your goals,

01:10:50.000 so once I started to really dedicate myself not only with Jiu Jitsu, but with breathing and physical strength and technical strength and mental strength and all these different ways that I can build myself as the best I can be, it really went to show, you know.

01:11:06.000 It really made a big improvement since that moment.

01:11:08.000 Do you find that the physical training helps prevent injuries?

01:11:12.000 Yeah, I do.

01:11:14.000 I think it's important.

01:11:15.000 I think Physical training should be done at a right time because if you get a white belt and you start telling him, alright, you got to be physically strong and you tell him to start working out and running and then he's going to create, his training is going to be based on his physical strength. 0.89

01:11:33.000 So my advice is The physical strength is to add to your technical ability.

01:11:39.000 It's not to take away from your technical ability and make you rely on your strength and make you rely on your physical attributes.

01:11:46.000 So I always kind of don't push for guys in my academy to work out until they reach a brown or black belt level. 0.95

01:11:53.000 Then they can start adding to their technique because if you get too strong, I've seen it happen many times where guys will take steroids and then they'll get so strong and they'll lose their technique.

01:12:02.000 So I never wanted that to happen to me.

01:12:05.000 I knew that the strength was always going to be there if I worked on it.

01:12:08.000 So I think it's important for you to build your technique and then secondary, you know, your strength can keep your technique going because, of course, if you don't have any physical strength, your technique will fade, you know.

01:12:21.000 So you got to have enough strength to keep it going.

01:12:24.000 Do you have a trainer that helps you with your physical strength workouts or do you just...

01:12:29.000 Nope.

01:12:29.000 I got myself...

01:12:30.000 That's it.

01:12:31.000 That's who I count on.

01:12:32.000 So it's just all that you've learned over all your years of martial arts.

01:12:36.000 Yeah, and like I said, you know, it took...

01:12:39.000 You know, when you're training for fights and when you're getting ready...

01:12:44.000 My dad left to Brazil when I was 18, so I didn't have a coach.

01:12:50.000 I didn't have nobody.

01:12:51.000 My dad was in another country.

01:12:52.000 I didn't have a coach.

01:12:53.000 I didn't have a strength trainer.

01:12:55.000 I didn't have nobody to give me any kind of advice.

01:12:58.000 So... 0.96

01:13:00.000 For a long time, I was kind of like, oh man, this sucks. 0.99

01:13:03.000 Like, fuck, everybody should be helping me. 0.99

01:13:05.000 My dad should be helping me. 0.99

01:13:07.000 I should have a trainer. 0.98

01:13:09.000 I should have fucking somebody, you know, writing my stuff down. 0.97

01:13:15.000 And I should have all this stuff. 0.99

01:13:16.000 And, you know, I should be sponsored by Nike.

01:13:18.000 And I should have, you know, like, all these things that, like, I compared myself to Kobe, Ryan.

01:13:23.000 But...

01:13:25.000 As you get better you realize that stuff's not going to happen and I kind of got to a point where I kind of stopped making excuses and I kind of started to blame myself for my unsuccess not blaming other reasons not blaming because I didn't have this or because I didn't have this or because my dad wasn't here so I'm grateful for my dad taught me as much as he can for as much as he did and Got to a certain point where I stopped blaming anybody for anything and I kind of just put everything into my hands.

01:13:56.000 What I do now and how my schedule is now is a result of a lot of years of being on my own and being Of course, I've had help here and there, but nobody fully embraced being my help.

01:14:07.000 So, of course, I pick from the help I can get from wherever I can get.

01:14:12.000 Oh, this guy taught me this one thing, I'll do it.

01:14:15.000 So, I kind of go around and using my experience to make the best training that fits for me, and I've kind of finally got to that point where...

01:14:21.000 I know how to train hard, to where I don't overtrain, to where I know I'm in shape, to where I know I'm mental.

01:14:28.000 All that stuff is kind of starting to really combine well based on what I feel and based on how I have lived my life and how I've competed and how I've put my body in stress.

01:14:38.000 I'm able to kind of get a good understanding of where I'm at.

01:14:41.000 When your dad went to Brazil, was he teaching in Brazil?

01:14:44.000 No.

01:14:44.000 What was he doing there?

01:14:45.000 My parents got split up and then my dad went to Brazil to go recharge his battery.

01:14:50.000 Just to hang out?

01:14:51.000 Yeah, to go.

01:14:54.000 His analogy is...

01:14:56.000 His explanation is, you know, you put a coconut tree in America...

01:15:02.000 It doesn't grow coconuts.

01:15:03.000 You put a coconut tree in Brazil, coconuts grow.

01:15:08.000 I cannot explain why.

01:15:12.000 So he wanted to just go make some coconuts.

01:15:14.000 Yeah, so I think he just wanted to feel good and kind of Be his on his little retreat and it worked well and now he just moved back actually like a couple months ago he's moved back here and now he's kind of after eight years of living in Brazil he's kind of got more motivation to be here in America be a part of my life and I mean he's always been a part of my life just It's not like my dad didn't help me,

01:15:38.000 but he helped me up until I was like 18, gave me everything he could, and then he let me be my own man.

01:15:45.000 He let me do everything on my own, make my own decisions.

01:15:47.000 If I wanted to do this, I could do it.

01:15:49.000 If I wanted to do that, if I wanted to wake up at 3 o'clock in the afternoon, I was my own man and had the own freedom to do everything.

01:15:57.000 He gave me the option to do whatever I wanted and thank God I was able to really embrace that and use it to my benefit and be able to do what I did with that kind of on my own.

01:16:09.000 Does your dad still train?

01:16:12.000 My dad teaches.

01:16:14.000 He doesn't train so much like where he actually like goes and tries to get better.

01:16:20.000 He's kind of physically can't do it because he's got like eight hernias and his back looks like a, you know, he's physically burnt out.

01:16:29.000 You know, you train at the highest level for your whole life with no...

01:16:32.000 When you say hernias, you mean herniated discs?

01:16:34.000 Yeah, eight hernias. 0.92

01:16:35.000 Herniated discs.

01:16:36.000 Yes.

01:16:37.000 So he's got just his back's a mess.

01:16:39.000 Oh yeah, his doctor said he shouldn't be walking, but he walks.

01:16:43.000 So he can't train as much, but he does put a gi on and he'll show a move here and there and he'll do what he has to do.

01:16:50.000 And I think he's happy with that.

01:16:53.000 I think now he's gotten to a place where he is okay with being retired.

01:17:01.000 And he's okay with not being the front line.

01:17:03.000 He's okay with being at the stage where...

01:17:07.000 Where he is, you know, he knew that the time that he had to be physically was up until this age.

01:17:12.000 And, you know, I guess when you start to fall out of your physical shape, you want to fight it and you want to know, I can still do it.

01:17:20.000 And I think now he's very happy being the icon that he is and being, you know, he helps me with what he can help.

01:17:26.000 He trains with what he can do.

01:17:28.000 And he's still the man.

01:17:29.000 Like, when he comes to me with theories and training stuff, I mean, man, it's like nobody else has the mind that he has anymore.

01:17:37.000 Even if you put his brain on anybody's body, they will be a champion for sure because he has a very great sense of how to adapt to anything.

01:17:48.000 So sometimes I'll come up with a move or I'll be like, Dad, this has been giving me problems.

01:17:52.000 And even if him not training for 10 years, he'll still feel how to defend it or feel how to deal with that or he'll have a great understanding of how to To be.

01:18:02.000 So, I think he's just better now, at this time of his life, he's incorporating different things.

01:18:08.000 He's not focused on training hard.

01:18:09.000 That time for him has passed.

01:18:10.000 The time for him to fight has passed.

01:18:12.000 Now it's time for him to watch me fight.

01:18:14.000 Now it's time for him to watch himself, you know, teach or watch him be an icon, you know, start, you know.

01:18:22.000 What does he do for exercise these days?

01:18:24.000 Oh, he surfs and he does exercises.

01:18:26.000 He'll do his little workouts and stuff and he's still very active.

01:18:31.000 But he's just not going to go and train rounds after rounds.

01:18:34.000 But he's definitely a very healthy and physical person.

01:18:41.000 I mean, if I have eight hernia discs by his age and I'm able to do what he did, I'll take that, no problem.

01:18:48.000 I'll take the eight hernias to being the best in the world any day of the week. 1.00

01:18:52.000 Well, they can do a lot for those things now.

01:18:55.000 Yeah.

01:18:56.000 I mean, he's going to doctors and if you have any advice, he definitely...

01:18:59.000 Yeah, I certainly do.

01:19:01.000 The Regenikine that I had done was because of a bulging disc and made a huge impact on me.

01:19:07.000 And it's also the same thing that a lot of football players have done, like Peyton Manning had done on his neck and he had two operations on his neck and was ready to retire.

01:19:15.000 Went to Germany, had the blood spinning procedure done and now was playing better football than ever.

01:19:20.000 That's great.

01:19:21.000 Massive anti-inflammatory properties of it.

01:19:24.000 And the good thing about it is it's using your own blood.

01:19:26.000 So it's not like you're introducing a steroid or any unnatural substance into your body that's going to cause an adverse side effect.

01:19:33.000 It's actually your own blood.

01:19:35.000 It's amazing to see with his body how it's been, how well he lives and how he's happy to...

01:19:42.000 He says, if I can surf and I can do the things, if I can train once a week and do the little moves here, I'm okay with that.

01:19:49.000 So I don't know how far he's trying to step into actually feeling like 20 years old again, but I'm sure he'd be interested to hear what you have to say.

01:19:57.000 Well, just pain relief and just the replenishing of his body's ability to move correctly would be a huge impact.

01:20:06.000 I know a lot of guys that are getting towards his age, though, that have done jiu-jitsu for a long time have similar issues.

01:20:12.000 Ricardo Laborio told me he has seven hernia discs.

01:20:16.000 You know, like you stand next to Ricardo, he's kind of like hunched over and leaned down.

01:20:20.000 And when we were describing it, you know, you could see like he has like a wince in his face.

01:20:24.000 He's just thinking about the pain, but still trains.

01:20:27.000 Still goes out there every now and then and rolls and just loves it and can't help it.

01:20:31.000 Yeah.

01:20:32.000 That's the problem.

01:20:32.000 Jiu-jitsu is so fun.

01:20:34.000 It's too bad your body's not indestructible.

01:20:36.000 It's too bad you can't tap out, but your body's, you know, rubber, indestructible.

01:20:42.000 They created it like that for a reason, I bet.

01:20:44.000 Yeah, maybe. 0.99

01:20:45.000 Or else my dad would still be mopping fools off. 0.96

01:20:47.000 I'd be like, this is my time now. 0.99

01:20:48.000 Come on, stop. 1.00

01:20:49.000 Give me a break.

01:20:52.000 When was the last time your dad like really seriously rolled?

01:20:55.000 How long ago was it?

01:20:57.000 I don't know. 0.99

01:20:58.000 All I know is the last time we seriously rolled, I got fucked up. 0.79

01:21:02.000 This was bad because I just got my black belt and I was like, alright dad, you know, at this time he was still kind of not, I mean he's had a hernia disc for a long time. 0.95

01:21:11.000 He probably had an eight hernia disc when he was fighting.

01:21:14.000 Really?

01:21:15.000 He's probably had it for a long time.

01:21:16.000 Just dealt with the pain?

01:21:18.000 Yeah, he's dealt with pain his whole life.

01:21:19.000 And I don't know exactly what the exact he has or doesn't have, but...

01:21:25.000 Yeah, when I was like 21 years old, 19, I just got my black belt, and I was like, alright dad, let's go.

01:21:32.000 Since you're out of shape, give me three minutes.

01:21:36.000 Three minutes.

01:21:38.000 And we'll go as hard as we can for three minutes, and let's see.

01:21:41.000 Because after three minutes, then, of course, I'm in better shape, and you are not training so much, so I don't want that to be an issue.

01:21:49.000 And when we trained, man, he got me in like a minute and a half, and I was so pissed.

01:21:53.000 Got me with a footlock.

01:21:55.000 And I was like, yeah, alright, he's still the man.

01:21:58.000 That was the last time we really rolled.

01:22:00.000 So, yeah, I mean, he's a very, I mean, he's just a real samurai.

01:22:07.000 I mean, there's no way to put it.

01:22:08.000 He's just all around.

01:22:09.000 It's not an act, you know.

01:22:11.000 He's definitely in his bones. 0.94

01:22:12.000 He's ready to die.

01:22:14.000 Even today, if something happened, he'd be ready to die for what he believes in.

01:22:17.000 And I think that's why I believe in what he says and I believe in what I do and why I do what I do with so much passion.

01:22:25.000 Yeah, he's the real deal.

01:22:26.000 And for folks who you want to get a sense of it, even if you're not a martial artist, the movie Choke, go watch the movie Choke.

01:22:32.000 Because that's, you know, Hickson when he was, I mean, essentially not quite his prime because he was in his late 30s at the time.

01:22:39.000 He was probably, you know, he was better when he was even younger than that.

01:22:42.000 But you get a chance to see the physical preparation when he's sitting up to his neck in an icy glacial river.

01:22:50.000 And meditating. 0.98

01:22:51.000 I mean, fucking freezing cold water, and he's just breathing and concentrating. 1.00

01:22:56.000 And you see, Hoyler gets in, he dips his foot in, he's like, fuck this! 1.00

01:22:59.000 I'm out of here, man! 0.99

01:23:00.000 Everybody else is like touching the water and going, no!

01:23:03.000 This is crazy!

01:23:04.000 And your dad's in there, up to his head.

01:23:07.000 Like it's nothing, like he's in a jacuzzi.

01:23:10.000 So yeah, that inspires me, you know?

01:23:14.000 Well, I remember him getting out, you know, he's happy and praising and thank you, my Lord, just loving it.

01:23:20.000 You know, he embraces the challenge of it and embraces just the wildness of being in a glacier river in Japan and the whole deal, man.

01:23:30.000 Yeah, he really does it.

01:23:33.000 Now you are starting to, you're doing a lot of training with, I know Gilbert Melendez, a good friend of yours, who thankfully just got re-signed to a new deal where he's going to compete against Anthony Pettis, who's the lightweight champion.

01:23:47.000 They're going to fight after they coach the Ultimate Fighter together, which is a huge thing.

01:23:52.000 And you're training with a lot of the other Oilers. 0.99

01:23:55.000 Fuck this, let me get out of here. 1.00

01:23:56.000 I've had enough. 0.99

01:23:57.000 And for folks who don't know, Hoyler Gracie is one of the greatest submission artists of all time, too, and very, very successful in competition.

01:24:04.000 So, you know, when you see the difference between how Hickson deals with it and how Hoyler deals with it, look, that's when you really get a sense of what a special person he is.

01:24:14.000 And by the way, no one's telling him to do this.

01:24:17.000 This is all his idea. 1.00

01:24:18.000 And your mom's going, oh, fuck. 1.00

01:24:20.000 Yeah, and my dad never had a coach either, you know. 1.00

01:24:22.000 He never really had nobody there all the time.

01:24:25.000 So that gave me more motivation too.

01:24:27.000 And also it gave him the confidence that he could let me be on my own and I was still going to be alright if I was trying to be alright.

01:24:35.000 Now, what I was going to say is you've done quite a bit of training with Nick and Nate Diaz and Ronda Rousey.

01:24:42.000 Didn't you do some training with her as well?

01:24:43.000 I've never trained with Ronda, actually.

01:24:45.000 I've trained with Nick and Nate a lot and Gilbert and Jake quite a lot.

01:24:49.000 So those guys are a big part of my training and I've helped them all out with fights.

01:24:55.000 Ronda trains with those guys on a fairly regular basis, right?

01:24:58.000 She's trained with them a few times.

01:24:59.000 She has.

01:25:00.000 I think she definitely was up there more before. 0.93

01:25:02.000 I don't know how much she goes up there now.

01:25:04.000 Are you planning on fighting in MMA now?

01:25:06.000 Yeah, I am.

01:25:08.000 So I actually, after the ADCC, I kind of started to focus more on MMA. I kind of want my energy to be driven towards fighting professionally in MMA. Yeah, that's where my energy is going these days.

01:25:23.000 And what motivates you to want to do that?

01:25:25.000 Like I said before, this has been my...

01:25:27.000 I knew I was going to get to this point when I was a little kid.

01:25:30.000 I never saw Jiu-Jitsu as my final mission.

01:25:34.000 And I was just waiting for the right time and waiting for myself to be ready for whatever obstacles I can get to on this specific situation.

01:25:43.000 So now I feel mentally ready and now I feel...

01:25:47.000 The motivation and now if you would ask me when I was 20 years old if I was ready to fight I mean I wasn't you know mentally not physically not technically but just mentally ready to do something like that so the last thing I wanted was to be traumatized and now I feel like no matter what happens I'm ready to embrace whatever happens and I'm ready to fight so negotiating and seeing what the best situation for me to take advantage of this moment.

01:26:14.000 Now, how have you adjusted your training to prepare for mixed martial arts?

01:26:18.000 Some minor adjustments.

01:26:21.000 Nothing too crazy, but I think, of course, there's different obstacles and different things that you got to worry about when you're just dealing with jiu-jitsu and when you're just dealing with MMA. You know, of course, you can hit and stuff, but I think generally my fights, the way I fight is more of a fight,

01:26:37.000 and I kind of, I'm not a sportist.

01:26:40.000 I'm not trying to be sporty with my jiu-jitsu, so I don't think the transfer over will be that big of a jump as it could be for some other guys.

01:26:48.000 People who are more points oriented.

01:26:49.000 Yeah, people who are kind of, they want to stay in their clums.

01:26:52.000 I'm very comfortable in the storm, so I think that'll help me when I fight.

01:26:59.000 That's one of the most important attitudes to have in life, is to embrace the storm.

01:27:03.000 Be comfortable in the storm.

01:27:05.000 Try to figure out how to make yourself uncomfortable all the time.

01:27:09.000 There's always time for relaxation after that's all over.

01:27:12.000 But don't avoid the storm.

01:27:15.000 Then you're going to see who you are when you can deal with how you react in those situations.

01:27:19.000 Absolutely.

01:27:20.000 Especially if you embrace it.

01:27:21.000 It becomes a part of who you are as a human being that you do that, that you take on those challenges.

01:27:27.000 What about striking?

01:27:28.000 What are you doing as far as striking?

01:27:30.000 I'm working on striking a little bit here and there.

01:27:33.000 I don't want to give up too much of my training.

01:27:36.000 Oh, really?

01:27:38.000 I think jiu-jitsu has striking.

01:27:43.000 Jiu-jitsu strikes when it's beneficial for you.

01:27:46.000 It doesn't teach you to sit there in the pocket and just bang out with anybody.

01:27:51.000 Striking is definitely a part of jiu-jitsu.

01:27:54.000 I think it's going to be interesting to see what I can do.

01:27:57.000 I'm curious.

01:28:00.000 I want to see what happens.

01:28:03.000 Just like anybody else, I'm very curious to see how my jiu-jitsu is going to play in fighting and what's going to happen.

01:28:11.000 Is jiu-jitsu going to be enough or is he going to have to do this certain type of training?

01:28:17.000 I think my training with Nick, Nate, Jake and Gilbert is sufficient to really put me wherever I want to be.

01:28:24.000 Now, your uncle, Hoyce, has said recently that you don't need anything other than Jiu Jitsu.

01:28:31.000 Is it all these different people that train wrestling and all these different aspects of striking that you really don't need it?

01:28:38.000 Just train Jiu Jitsu.

01:28:39.000 Do you agree with that?

01:28:41.000 Or do you think that in modern mixed martial arts it is important that you cross train?

01:28:45.000 It is important that you prepare for a full mixed martial arts competition?

01:28:49.000 Or do you think that the highest level of Jiu Jitsu is still sufficient?

01:28:53.000 I think jujitsu is sufficient.

01:28:55.000 I think jujitsu is sufficient to be the best martial arts.

01:28:59.000 I just think that the rules make it so that it's not necessarily possible.

01:29:04.000 So the rounds, the gloves, the rules, you know, those things all change the sport and it changes the situation.

01:29:12.000 Stand-ups?

01:29:12.000 Yeah, like if you have no gloves, nobody's going to be throwing those punches that guys throw these days.

01:29:20.000 So you're going to break your hand.

01:29:21.000 First punch you throw, the guy ducks his head, you're going to break your hand.

01:29:23.000 So I think that all those things change it.

01:29:27.000 And when it changes, you have to be ready to adapt to what changes.

01:29:30.000 Personally, if you put two guys in a cage, jiu-jitsu is enough.

01:29:35.000 But when you put in the gloves, and you put the time, and you put the rounds, and you put the, you know, all these things, the steroids, so it changes the situation.

01:29:45.000 And, you know, Guys are more willing to just throw the hardest punches and knock you out because they know that the round is going to end, because they know that their hand is not necessarily going to break.

01:29:57.000 So if you ask me what's the best martial arts, I think Jiu Jitsu, of course.

01:30:00.000 If you ask me, is Jiu Jitsu enough?

01:30:03.000 Yes.

01:30:04.000 It just depends on the rules.

01:30:05.000 If you tell me, okay, it's a two minute round and the guy is going to stand you up or do the, you know, of course, then you have to learn how to box.

01:30:12.000 You have to learn how to do this.

01:30:14.000 And personally, deflection of punches has always been a part of jiu-jitsu.

01:30:20.000 Not necessarily being able to strike.

01:30:22.000 I don't know necessarily if I'm going to be knocking guys out.

01:30:25.000 But I'm going to be able to defend.

01:30:27.000 My goal in the jiu-jitsu goal, in the principle, is to be able to defend whatever the guys are going to do.

01:30:32.000 If the guy's going to punch you, you have to be able to defend the punch.

01:30:35.000 So I don't necessarily think that you have to be a great striker to win MMA and to be a champ, but you have to be able to defend yourself.

01:30:44.000 You have to be able to know where the punch is coming from.

01:30:46.000 You have to be able to know what's going on.

01:30:48.000 You have to know about all this stuff.

01:30:50.000 It's not like, oh, guy trains sport jiu-jitsu for 20 years and then he goes into a fight, he's going to get beat up.

01:30:56.000 Depends how you train and what your worry is and how well you adapt to whatever's going on in the fight.

01:31:03.000 Your dad always said that, that he doesn't train kickboxing to become a kickboxer.

01:31:07.000 He trains it to know what they're doing.

01:31:08.000 Yes, exactly.

01:31:10.000 So I feel comfortable.

01:31:11.000 So who are you talking to?

01:31:13.000 Are you talking to organizations?

01:31:15.000 Can you tell me?

01:31:16.000 Yeah, I'm talking to...

01:31:18.000 Right now I'm negotiating with Japan.

01:31:21.000 Nothing's for sure, but it's looking good and...

01:31:23.000 I'm trying to see if there's an opportunity for me in Japan.

01:31:28.000 What organizations are left in Japan right now?

01:31:30.000 I can't really say too much right now, but basically very shortly we'll know what's going on with that.

01:31:39.000 Well, for folks who don't know, your dad was a huge star in Japan.

01:31:42.000 They had a comic book based on him.

01:31:44.000 I mean, there was a lot of fanfare and publicity, and they embraced him, especially when he won the Japan Valley Tudos.

01:31:52.000 I mean, your dad was an enormous star over there, and I think that that makes sense that you would want to compete over there because they would be very interested to see.

01:32:03.000 Yeah, there's a lot of benefits for me starting off in Japan.

01:32:09.000 It's just a lot better for me at this moment in my career to start off in Japan and to really build myself the best I can.

01:32:16.000 And I personally like fighting in front of Japanese.

01:32:37.000 I like that.

01:32:41.000 Japan and I think it's just a time in my life and of course if Japan were to ever like you know have a movement of being able to bring MMA back to Japan I think a possibility would be with bringing me to it because that's gonna it's gonna replicate what my dad did you know how he brought it to Japan so I think it's for me in this situation it's a great opportunity and I'm trying to go for that Yeah,

01:33:10.000 for people who don't know, your dad was the star of Pride 1. I mean, that's what got Pride kicked off.

01:33:15.000 That was the big launching pad after he had won the Japan Valley Tudo.

01:33:21.000 And then, of course, Pride came close to...

01:33:25.000 I mean, it was an enormous event in Japan.

01:33:28.000 Like, they had put on 90,000 seat shows several times.

01:33:32.000 Yeah, like 60,000 Tokyo Dome sold out.

01:33:35.000 Huge.

01:33:36.000 And somehow or another, it stopped.

01:33:39.000 It's one of the great mysteries of martial arts, and I don't totally understand Japanese culture.

01:33:45.000 I guess they get really into things sometimes, and then the things fade away.

01:33:50.000 But when we were there, and we did the UFC there a couple years ago, it was my first time in Japan, and I was amazed at the audiences.

01:33:57.000 They were awesome.

01:33:57.000 They're amazing.

01:33:58.000 When the fight's going on, they're so polite.

01:34:00.000 And then when something happens, like a transition or a sweep, everybody applauds.

01:34:04.000 It's like, wow!

01:34:06.000 It's really cool.

01:34:08.000 I really appreciate how much they love the technique and the martial arts aspect of it.

01:34:15.000 But as far as a crazy crowd, there's nothing like Brazil.

01:34:19.000 There's nothing like Brazil.

01:34:21.000 This last event, when Michida fought Musashi, I watched it at home, and when Bruce Buffer says it's time, the whole audience does it with him.

01:34:30.000 I mean, there's like 18,000 people.

01:34:34.000 It's time!

01:34:36.000 No one cheers like a Brazilian crowd. 0.99

01:34:38.000 No one cheers.

01:34:39.000 And they're there at the very first fight.

01:34:41.000 That place is packed.

01:34:43.000 Packed.

01:34:44.000 They're getting their money's worth.

01:34:45.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:34:46.000 And they're fucking fired up, man. 0.99

01:34:48.000 We got there early and there was already just a giant line around the block to the arena. 0.99

01:34:53.000 And then when we got in it, man, the energy in the air was...

01:34:56.000 It was a huge, huge, huge thing.

01:34:59.000 That was the last one that I was at in Rio.

01:35:01.000 But...

01:35:02.000 There's no crowds like Brazilian crowds. 1.00

01:35:04.000 They come from the soccer background, so they're really into that.

01:35:09.000 The Japanese crowds are just different in their own way. 1.00

01:35:13.000 Completely different, yeah.

01:35:14.000 Very, very different from the Brazilian crowds, but different in their own unique way. 1.00

01:35:19.000 So, is there a timeline on when this is going to happen?

01:35:22.000 Basically, we're going to know very soon.

01:35:24.000 Very, very soon.

01:35:25.000 The next, you know, probably the next time I see you, I'll have an answer.

01:35:32.000 So, I'm just waiting.

01:35:33.000 I don't want to give up a date or a time.

01:35:34.000 I don't want to put too much energy into that because I hope it happens so much that I don't want to, like, spoil anything.

01:35:41.000 So, we'll see and it's going to happen very soon.

01:35:43.000 So, I'll let you know.

01:35:44.000 I'll let you know.

01:35:45.000 Don't worry.

01:35:46.000 You'll be able to...

01:35:47.000 Did you watch the UFC this weekend?

01:35:48.000 I did not, actually.

01:35:50.000 I missed it.

01:35:51.000 Damian Maia, who's a very excellent representative of jiu-jitsu, fought Rory McDonald and got beat up.

01:36:00.000 What happened in the fight?

01:36:01.000 Well, Damian took him down the first round, mounted him, but he couldn't submit him. 0.98

01:36:07.000 And Rory defended, got back up to his feet, and then started kicking the shit out of him. 1.00

01:36:11.000 Really? 0.95

01:36:11.000 And was Damian just trying to stand up with him? 0.95

01:36:14.000 Yeah.

01:36:15.000 Well, there you go.

01:36:18.000 I like Damien.

01:36:20.000 Damien's a good guy.

01:36:23.000 I've always had respect for him.

01:36:24.000 We've always had a good relationship.

01:36:27.000 And he's always been a representative of Jiu Jitsu in a great way.

01:36:33.000 So I think the more he focuses on that and the more he tries to really use jiu-jitsu, the better he's going to be because he's a specialist in jiu-jitsu.

01:36:41.000 He's not a specialist in striking, so it's tough to try to be an excellent person in a different sport.

01:36:47.000 I think he should try to focus in on being the greatest jiu-jitsu fighter in an MMA, and I think that'll be beneficial for him.

01:36:57.000 Well, he was trying to do that.

01:36:58.000 He was trying to take Rory down, but he couldn't take him down.

01:37:01.000 He kept getting his takedowns stuffed, and then he was forced to stand with him, and Rory kept kicking him. 0.99

01:37:06.000 He was just kicking the shit out of him. 0.95

01:37:07.000 That's why I'm curious. 0.98

01:37:08.000 I'm curious to see for myself how it is, fighting with guys who don't want to go to the ground and see how I'm going to be able to deal with it.

01:37:15.000 And I don't know.

01:37:16.000 I have zero experience in MMA, so...

01:37:19.000 I'm curious.

01:37:19.000 I'm curious to see what happens and I'm curious to see how really difficult it could be and where my technique is going to play a role and how it's going to be because you never know.

01:37:29.000 That's why I'm really open for the challenge and my blessings for Damien.

01:37:37.000 Hopefully he can find a great tactic to beat his opponents and beat guys who are trying to do that.

01:37:42.000 Do you look at him as sort of, I mean, he's a very high-level jiu-jitsu guy.

01:37:46.000 Do you look at him as an example of what can be possible and not, the pitfalls, the possibilities?

01:37:52.000 Yeah, I mean, I think if somebody can defend his takedowns or something, then there's definitely a technical reason why that's happening.

01:37:59.000 And I think that, like, personally, I admire the guy.

01:38:03.000 The guy's an exceptional athlete.

01:38:05.000 He's a great fighter and everything.

01:38:06.000 But I don't look up to his jiu-jitsu.

01:38:10.000 I don't look up to anybody's Jiu Jitsu that is fighting these days.

01:38:15.000 I don't see anything that is exceptional.

01:38:19.000 I see guys that are good, tough, and guys who make it happen.

01:38:23.000 But I'm impressed with my dad's Jiu Jitsu.

01:38:25.000 That's where I feel like I'm going to try to replicate.

01:38:29.000 So as much as I'm a fan and I'm an admirer and all these guys, they got to where they got with the tools that they were given.

01:38:37.000 You know, we are all given a certain amount of tools and how will you use them.

01:38:40.000 So I can't take anything away from the guys who got far with the jiu-jitsu or with the striking or with whatever.

01:38:46.000 But yeah, it's definitely like you're gonna be able to see, you know.

01:38:53.000 Who do you think is the best representative of jiu-jitsu right now in mixed martial arts?

01:38:59.000 I mean, there's a lot of good guys, you know.

01:39:01.000 There's, you know, the classics, you know, like Damien's very good, you know, Jacare is very good.

01:39:06.000 Those guys are guys who I'm friends with, you know, guys who have been competing in jiu-jitsu tournaments.

01:39:11.000 Sergio Moraes, too.

01:39:12.000 His jiu-jitsu, I mean, he hasn't gotten to that level yet, you know, the level of opposition yet, but his jiu-jitsu has been very effective in MMA. His submissions are, you know...

01:39:22.000 I actually haven't seen him fight really in MMA, so I don't really know too much.

01:39:27.000 But his jiu-jitsu in jiu-jitsu tournaments is good.

01:39:31.000 You know, he's a tough guy.

01:39:32.000 He has a specific type of style.

01:39:35.000 But again, I'm not impressed with his jiu-jitsu.

01:39:38.000 I'm impressed with him as a whole.

01:39:41.000 He's like, wow, the guy can make it happen.

01:39:43.000 He can defend well.

01:39:44.000 He's an exceptional athlete.

01:39:46.000 The guy's very strong, very explosive.

01:39:49.000 But I don't see him as an exceptional jiu-jitsu fighter.

01:39:54.000 What's missing?

01:39:56.000 For him personally?

01:39:57.000 Yeah.

01:39:58.000 I mean, again, like, I don't...

01:40:00.000 No, but when you say, I mean, you look at a guy who's like a high-level, world champion caliber fighter, but you say you're not impressed with his jiu-jitsu.

01:40:06.000 What is not impressive about it?

01:40:09.000 Um...

01:40:12.000 I don't know, because I've never seen him fight in MMA, so I don't know what he's doing in MMA. But when I fight him, I fought him once, he beat my ass, and then I fought him the next time, and it was a very even match. 0.73

01:40:22.000 I thought I won that match, and I felt like I got gypped. 0.97

01:40:27.000 Did they give him an advantage?

01:40:28.000 They gave him an advantage in the last five seconds.

01:40:30.000 Advantage is so square.

01:40:31.000 For folks who don't know, there's weird scoring in jiu-jitsu.

01:40:35.000 If jiu-jitsu is 0-0, one guy can get what they call an advantage and it's very subjective. 0.91

01:40:43.000 I've seen fucking bench-clearing brawls because of advantage scoring.

01:40:47.000 What I feel about impressive jiu-jitsu is Why am I so impressed with my dad's jiu-jitsu? 0.99

01:40:54.000 It's because he outsmarts me.

01:40:56.000 He technically beats me.

01:40:58.000 If somebody is stronger than me and they pass my guard or they submit me, I am not impressed.

01:41:06.000 Because of that, I think that the guy used his tools to beat me or did whatever.

01:41:11.000 But that doesn't mean he's a better jujitsu who doesn't technically impress me.

01:41:16.000 So it's very difficult to impress me.

01:41:19.000 I come from my father.

01:41:20.000 My dad has been technically outsmarting me for a long time.

01:41:22.000 So it's hard for me to be impressed with jujitsu these days.

01:41:26.000 And that's what I'm trying to do.

01:41:28.000 I'm trying to do a jujitsu that is technical.

01:41:31.000 It's way harder for you to technically outsmart somebody than for you to just, no, I'm going to get it and just take it.

01:41:36.000 And the guy defends and then you just rip right through it.

01:41:38.000 So it's a different approach to what I believe Jiu Jitsu is about.

01:41:42.000 And that's why I feel like I'm not impressed as much as other people.

01:41:46.000 Wow, he got that arm bar, yeah.

01:41:49.000 But he got that arm bar because he's much stronger than the guy.

01:41:52.000 The guy has no defense.

01:41:53.000 So I feel like it's a mind game and however well you use your chess pieces, You know, that's what's going to make you the results.

01:42:02.000 But I don't take anything away from Sergio Moraes.

01:42:04.000 He's a, you know, great fighter and he's an exceptionally healthy, strong person.

01:42:09.000 And he's able to use the tools and he's able to use Jiu-Jitsu for his benefit.

01:42:13.000 That doesn't mean he's not good at Jiu-Jitsu or anything.

01:42:15.000 That just means that if you speak specifically for Jiu-Jitsu, is he, like...

01:42:21.000 Using his strength or he's using his technical abilities to beat your opponent?

01:42:26.000 And that's where I say that.

01:42:28.000 That's why I say that.

01:42:30.000 Mark Coleman once said to me...

01:42:31.000 Yeah, that was the match that I drawed with him.

01:42:35.000 It was like 4-4 and then I lost on an advantage at the last second.

01:42:41.000 You were rocking the old school samurai ponytail just like your dad.

01:42:44.000 Old school, old school.

01:42:44.000 Tried that out for a little bit.

01:42:46.000 Nobody told me it was really gay, so...

01:42:48.000 I kept it going for a little bit.

01:42:50.000 Well, your dad had that back in the day, man.

01:42:52.000 That's a tribute haircut.

01:42:54.000 You get a pass. 0.98

01:42:55.000 You get a gay pass. 0.82

01:42:58.000 Then I realized it was really... 0.70

01:43:00.000 So I kind of cut it.

01:43:02.000 Did it get in the way?

01:43:03.000 Yeah, I just got in the way and it just kind of wasn't really my style.

01:43:06.000 It was for a while.

01:43:07.000 I did what I had to do with it and then that was it.

01:43:10.000 I was going to say that Mark Coleman once told me, strength is technique.

01:43:14.000 Strength is a technique.

01:43:15.000 For some people.

01:43:16.000 And that's for some people.

01:43:17.000 Everybody has their belief.

01:43:19.000 Other people, other Jiu-Jitsu guys, they're like, you know, if your move doesn't work, then use more strength.

01:43:25.000 You know?

01:43:26.000 The moves don't work because you're not using enough strength.

01:43:29.000 So I don't come from that theory.

01:43:31.000 I don't come from that belief.

01:43:32.000 And I come from a leverage and technique background.

01:43:35.000 So...

01:43:36.000 That's why I feel the way I feel.

01:43:37.000 It's not because I feel against anybody, and I'm not trying to point fingers or try to say that I'm better than anybody.

01:43:43.000 Nothing like that.

01:43:44.000 I still have a lot to prove.

01:43:46.000 But if you honestly ask me if I'm impressed with the jiu-jitsu, I come from...

01:43:50.000 I'm Hickson's son, you know?

01:43:52.000 I come from the best.

01:43:54.000 If I'm easily impressed, you know, that's not a good sign.

01:43:57.000 Who impresses you in jiu-jitsu today?

01:44:00.000 Um...

01:44:02.000 What really impresses me is guys who are smaller being able to really defeat bigger opponents.

01:44:06.000 Like Marcelo Garcia?

01:44:07.000 Marcelo Garcia is a very...

01:44:09.000 He's definitely a great fighter.

01:44:11.000 I've fought him twice.

01:44:13.000 He's one guy who technically is great.

01:44:16.000 I have nothing to say about his technical abilities.

01:44:19.000 He's technically in the game.

01:44:21.000 He's not overpowering.

01:44:23.000 He's not using his physical attributes to beat his opponents.

01:44:26.000 I'm impressed with that.

01:44:27.000 That's a great thing that he has.

01:44:31.000 Yeah, I mean, the technical ability is where I feel like is the line for greatness.

01:44:37.000 And yeah, Marcelo Garcia, he's great.

01:44:40.000 I love fighting him.

01:44:42.000 You know, that's one guy who I would fight any day.

01:44:45.000 That's like...

01:44:47.000 Great to be meshing with that kind of talent.

01:44:52.000 So, yeah, he's a great example, and he fought guys who were really big, and right there I almost got him.

01:45:00.000 Marcelo?

01:45:01.000 Yeah, I had him in the guillotine for a good minute until my forearms cramped up.

01:45:09.000 If there was a professional avenue for jujitsu, if jujitsu was like golf or baseball or something like that, it was on television all the time, would you be motivated at all to enter into MMA? Yeah, I think so too because I think it's more of a real fight and I think it's more of a challenge and I like challenges and I like to I like to challenge and I like to see what's going to happen.

01:45:37.000 Personally, I think that jujitsu takes away a little bit from the full fighting spirit.

01:45:46.000 Because there's no punching.

01:45:47.000 Because there's no punching and because there's other tools.

01:45:49.000 So the less rules you have, the more you can actually present yourself and use the inner stuff that you have within the fighting spirit and find out ways to stay safe.

01:46:03.000 Personally, most of the jiu-jitsu these days are very boring matches and they're very point-oriented.

01:46:12.000 It's not as interesting to watch because guys are there for the win, for the point.

01:46:21.000 It's not motivating for me to compete in a fight like that.

01:46:27.000 I'm motivated to embark on this new journey of MMA. I'm motivated to see what happens, to see how the fight goes, what I need to do, what happens if this happens, and I think that's a great thing.

01:46:39.000 Now, when you see guys like Jacare, who were great jiu-jitsu artists and now entering into MMA, Jacare is winning a lot of his fights with kickboxing, and a lot of guys that he's fighting, he's not able to take down, so he's sort of forced to stand and strike with them.

01:46:53.000 Do you take away anything from that?

01:46:55.000 Do you learn anything from that?

01:46:57.000 Yeah, I'm trying to learn.

01:46:58.000 I think Jacare is great and I really like him a lot as a human being and as an athlete and I've been his fan since he was before, you know, in Jiu Jitsu.

01:47:08.000 He was always kind of a real cool guy to watch.

01:47:12.000 He's a warrior, you know?

01:47:14.000 That guy has a strong spirit and he's a very strong-hearted person.

01:47:19.000 So whatever he does, he's going to be good at.

01:47:22.000 And however he does it, he's going to make it happen.

01:47:25.000 And he just used the tools that he was given to get the best results that he can get.

01:47:31.000 I don't take anything away from him.

01:47:33.000 I didn't mean by taking anything away from him.

01:47:35.000 Do you personally get something from watching him?

01:47:38.000 Like, did you learn something from his approach?

01:47:41.000 Yeah, I mean, personally, I'm kind of trying to always analyze and more importantly, I'm trying to see where I fit in on this, you know?

01:47:48.000 I want to see how I'm going to deal with somebody who's not letting me take them down.

01:47:54.000 How am I going to get them down?

01:47:55.000 How am I going to find the way to win the fight?

01:47:58.000 I think it's all in the air and we're going to see what happens.

01:48:01.000 I can't wait to start to test myself in these waters and get these challenges and find out ways to win.

01:48:09.000 Other than Gil and Jake, how many wrestlers are you working with?

01:48:14.000 I mean, in my academy, there's always been great wrestlers and great judo guys and great everything.

01:48:20.000 They all come in and out of my academy, so I've wrestled with the best wrestlers, and I've wrestled with, you know, I've been in the mix with a lot of great athletes, and yeah, I mean...

01:48:36.000 They're a part of the training.

01:48:38.000 They come in and when I go up to train with Nate or Gilbert, there's a lot of wrestlers.

01:48:41.000 I think that's just one more tool, one more training session, one different type of training.

01:48:46.000 Sometimes you train just to not get taken down.

01:48:48.000 Sometimes you train to take somebody down.

01:48:50.000 Sometimes you just train jujitsu.

01:48:52.000 Sometimes you just train defense.

01:48:53.000 Sometimes you just train...

01:48:54.000 One position.

01:48:55.000 So you try to build yourself as a complete as much as you can.

01:49:00.000 And of course, my specialty will never be wrestling.

01:49:03.000 My specialty will never be boxing or kickboxing.

01:49:06.000 It's never going to be my specialty.

01:49:10.000 Just like Jacare, his specialty is not going to be stand-up.

01:49:14.000 He's great at stand-up.

01:49:15.000 He's knocking guys out.

01:49:16.000 He's doing great.

01:49:17.000 But that's not his specialty.

01:49:19.000 You ask him where he feels the best, it's going to be jujitsu.

01:49:21.000 So I feel like my best is always going to be jujitsu.

01:49:25.000 As much as I train the other stuff and as much as I feel comfortable in the other place, I want to bring the fight to where I feel great.

01:49:33.000 That's why Anderson Silva was champion for so long, was because he was able to keep the fight where he felt comfortable.

01:49:39.000 He was able to keep the fight on his feet, and in that elusiveness, he was able to win.

01:49:45.000 If he was like, I don't care if I get taken down and let the guys mount and do this stuff, and then didn't fight to get up, then he would have lost a long time before.

01:49:54.000 But because he was so well at being able to stay where he's comfortable at and keep the fight where he wants to keep it at, He was an exceptional legend, you know, for so long.

01:50:04.000 And, you know, that's something to admire.

01:50:06.000 And I see guys, a lot of guys are just general.

01:50:11.000 A lot of guys are just really good at everything.

01:50:12.000 Nobody's a specialist in anything.

01:50:16.000 Except for some here and there.

01:50:18.000 But generally, MMA is just...

01:50:21.000 You're good at everything.

01:50:21.000 You're not specialized in something.

01:50:24.000 So I think for me, coming from a martial arts background, not coming from an MMA background, not coming from a...

01:50:29.000 I didn't just start doing this because I saw it on TV. I come from, you know, a tradition.

01:50:35.000 And my tradition is jujitsu.

01:50:37.000 My tradition is technique and leverage.

01:50:41.000 And that's what I base my whole life on.

01:50:43.000 So if I'm going to fight, I'm going to use that to my benefit, you know.

01:50:47.000 There's one pattern that we do see in MMA all the time is that when a guy gets truly excellent at any one aspect of fighting, that will always be that advantage when he gets into the octagon.

01:50:58.000 It always is a significant advantage over people that have never competed in that individual form.

01:51:06.000 For example, if you take a guy...

01:51:09.000 Like Anderson Silva, he's a total specialist, a stand-up striking specialist.

01:51:13.000 I mean, his whole career is a stand-up striking specialist.

01:51:16.000 In order for you to get that good as he was at striking...

01:51:19.000 It's a whole lifetime.

01:51:20.000 It's a whole lifetime.

01:51:20.000 Yeah.

01:51:21.000 Yeah.

01:51:21.000 So that's...

01:51:22.000 I don't got two lives.

01:51:23.000 I only got one right now.

01:51:25.000 I better do what I got going on, you know.

01:51:28.000 Where's your academy?

01:51:28.000 Where do you teach?

01:51:29.000 I teach in Culver City, right next to Playa del Rey, Jefferson and Sentinella.

01:51:34.000 And it's called the Crone Gracie Academy?

01:51:36.000 Crone Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, yeah.

01:51:36.000 Now, do you find that teaching makes you better at Jiu Jitsu?

01:51:41.000 Yeah, I've been teaching since I was 15. So, every day I teach, even until today, I still get better and I realize something that could be better or realize how I can explain something better or realize how I can see a different side.

01:51:52.000 And teaching for me has definitely been a huge part of my growth in Jiu Jitsu.

01:51:57.000 And I see people who just train and don't teach and I see a big difference in the people who do teach and how much more knowledgeable they are and how much better they can be from that.

01:52:07.000 Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it, that teaching someone who doesn't know something forces you to think about almost every single aspect of it, including parts of it that you could sort of take for granted.

01:52:18.000 And it seems to translate not just with jiu-jitsu, but kind of anything that you teach people.

01:52:23.000 Of course.

01:52:23.000 Yeah, sometimes you do something naturally, and it just feels right, and then...

01:52:29.000 When somebody asks, oh, how'd you do that?

01:52:31.000 Then you have to sit and you have to program your mind to do and know what you're doing.

01:52:37.000 Instead of just reacting, you have to know.

01:52:41.000 I knew I did that.

01:52:43.000 I think teaching for me has been huge.

01:52:47.000 I really, really enjoy teaching much more now.

01:52:50.000 I really enjoy teaching.

01:52:52.000 I really enjoy making people better.

01:52:55.000 As a teacher, I am able to see what a person needs and see where he's weak and try to make it better.

01:53:04.000 Instead of coming with a class, like in my mind, oh, I'm going to just teach this class or I'm going to just teach this move.

01:53:10.000 I'm looking specifically to see what this person is lacking in and how it's going to benefit.

01:53:15.000 Some guys are too hyper, you have to calm down, breathe.

01:53:18.000 Some guys are too slow, wake up buddy, come on, let's get it going.

01:53:22.000 I think the good teacher is the one who kind of adapts to the needs of the student for the...

01:53:31.000 For the goal of being better.

01:53:33.000 I'm not necessarily trying to make you feel good.

01:53:35.000 I'm not necessarily trying to make you believe something.

01:53:39.000 I'm trying to make you better at Jiu Jitsu.

01:53:41.000 You have to get better.

01:53:43.000 You have to be a little bit better every time you leave me.

01:53:48.000 I really believe that the more I teach...

01:53:51.000 And especially for me, personally, because my dad left when I was 18, so I had all these students at the academy, you know?

01:53:58.000 These were all my training partners, so I had to teach these people to be better so that I could have good training.

01:54:05.000 Because if I just was there like, oh yeah, just do that, move, yeah, keep going, alright guys, keep going, open training, alright, boom, boom.

01:54:12.000 Then I would not have great training partners the way I do now.

01:54:15.000 I have great training partners now because I was like, okay, how is this guy going to beat me?

01:54:20.000 Don't let me get to this position.

01:54:22.000 And I'm like very passionate on letting these guys get better to tell them.

01:54:26.000 I tell them, man, dude, the way you're going to beat me is to do like this.

01:54:29.000 And I'm making these guys better to try to beat me so that one, they stay motivated and two, so they give me great training because I can train now.

01:54:38.000 My academy for a fight.

01:54:40.000 I don't need to go to train with these other because I have guys who know exactly what I do and I tell them exactly how to defend it and I'm working that and the better I make them the better they're gonna make me.

01:54:51.000 So you were teaching at your dad's academy when you were 18?

01:54:54.000 You were basically running the show.

01:54:55.000 15. 15 I started teaching but I wasn't running the academy.

01:54:59.000 I wasn't teaching the adult classes.

01:55:00.000 At 16 I taught like once a week.

01:55:03.000 17, I started teaching a couple more times a week.

01:55:05.000 By 18, I was fully teaching everything and running the whole academy.

01:55:09.000 Wow.

01:55:10.000 So that's what you've been doing essentially for a living.

01:55:12.000 Yeah.

01:55:13.000 Wow.

01:55:14.000 Mm-hmm.

01:55:15.000 That's crazy.

01:55:16.000 So for the past seven years, that's been what you do?

01:55:19.000 Well, since I was 18, I've been...

01:55:23.000 Since I was 15, I've been...

01:55:25.000 All the money I make is from Jiu-Jitsu, so yeah.

01:55:27.000 Wow, that's incredible.

01:55:29.000 So now, when you teach, how many days a week are you teaching?

01:55:33.000 I teach once a day.

01:55:34.000 Once a day?

01:55:35.000 Yeah.

01:55:35.000 Do you have daytime classes that someone else teaches?

01:55:37.000 Yeah, I teach...

01:55:39.000 Once a day, and then some days I teach twice, and then some days I train the afternoon class, and so I kind of scatter it out to where I can get to every, you know, I'll teach two days in the afternoon, and then I'll teach every night, and then, so some days on Tuesdays I teach twice a day,

01:55:55.000 but But yeah, I teach a lot, and I also teach enough to where I don't over-teach and get kind of...

01:56:02.000 because I've taught before where I teach every class, and that's draining, you know?

01:56:06.000 You give a lot of your energy, you teach, you know, you give, give, give, and then you have nothing for yourself.

01:56:12.000 So I've found my kind of remedy of how much I can teach to where I still am feeling good about myself and still have enough to do the things I need to do.

01:56:21.000 So I teach, you know, Monday to Thursday nights, and then I teach Tuesday and Friday mornings.

01:56:26.000 And then Saturday is open training and so I kind of give myself a time to not have those responsibilities.

01:56:32.000 Now, how do you structure a class?

01:56:34.000 Do you sit down and write out what your objectives are for each class?

01:56:38.000 Do you structure them on the fly, like as you get there?

01:56:43.000 Do you have specific things that you want to work on, certain drills that you think that people are lacking?

01:56:47.000 Every day is different and it depends a lot on my mood too.

01:56:52.000 Some days I want to do a specific training for me.

01:56:55.000 So I'll do something that I feel like I need to work on.

01:56:59.000 So then I'll teach that move.

01:57:02.000 Something I know I'm not the greatest at.

01:57:04.000 So I'll teach that move and then try to really research and see how I can make it better.

01:57:09.000 I work on that move.

01:57:09.000 Sometimes I see what the class needs and what I feel like those people who are in that class, how are they going to get the most out of that class?

01:57:18.000 So some days it's like that, some days it's not.

01:57:22.000 Some days I come up with stuff on the moment, some days I'm kind of like thinking about something all day.

01:57:25.000 Every day is different.

01:57:28.000 Basically I never write anything down before.

01:57:31.000 I kind of just do everything on the spot.

01:57:34.000 Basically my goal when I'm teaching is to make my students better and to make them Gain, you know?

01:57:41.000 So how I'm going to do that, I don't know.

01:57:43.000 I'm just going to kind of see and feel where it is.

01:57:47.000 You know, sometimes I have a lot more beginners.

01:57:49.000 I'm not going to teach a fancy or something that took me 20 years to figure out.

01:57:54.000 I'm not going to teach it to somebody, beginners. 1.00

01:57:56.000 So if there's a class and it's mostly beginners, I'm going to teach them mostly beginner stuff.

01:58:00.000 If there's a class and these guys want to all train, then we will do all these training.

01:58:04.000 So it depends.

01:58:05.000 It's an interesting aspect about Jiu Jitsu that most people that have never trained, it's very difficult for them to grasp the depth of technique.

01:58:13.000 There's so many different techniques and there's so many different techniques that transition into other techniques.

01:58:19.000 For the lay person to kind of understand it, it's almost impossible.

01:58:24.000 When you see someone like yourself that has a deep knowledge of it and then teaches and trains and competes, you got to kind of pay attention to it for many, many, many hours before you even see how deep the water is.

01:58:40.000 The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know.

01:58:43.000 It can always be easier for you.

01:58:45.000 If you're training and you're having trouble, if it's difficult for you to beat your opponent, then you're doing something wrong.

01:58:52.000 It should be easy.

01:58:54.000 You should be able to outsmart your opponent and It should be easy.

01:58:59.000 Jiu-Jitsu is easy, really.

01:59:00.000 So, if you're having a struggle with any kind of training session or anything, then that means you need to improve on something else to make your life easier.

01:59:08.000 So, I really don't think that there is ever, like, a cap where you're going to be like, oh, I know everything.

01:59:12.000 And it gets to such a small detail.

01:59:15.000 And then it gets to, like, the timing of not only being able to know and to do what you do, but do it at the right time.

01:59:21.000 So...

01:59:22.000 It's very complicated.

01:59:23.000 It's so complicated, I've cried so many times trying to figure it out. 0.97

01:59:29.000 Still to this day, I feel like, fuck, I'm only like maybe even halfway of where I want to be.

01:59:35.000 Dennis McKenna, who's this very brilliant guy, had an interesting expression when it came to learning things. 0.99

01:59:41.000 He said, the brighter the bonfire of enlightenment, the more surface area of ignorance is revealed. 0.99

01:59:48.000 So the more you know, the more you realize, God, there's so much shit to know. 0.99

01:59:52.000 Yeah, it's true. 0.99

01:59:54.000 And it sort of applies to everything.

01:59:55.000 But I think one of the unique things about jujitsu and one of the things that I've gotten, not just from myself, but from other people that I've inspired to begin jujitsu and start training jujitsu, is that they say that it makes everything else in their life better.

02:00:09.000 That they say that the jujitsu training, the difficulty of it, and the learning about themselves...

02:00:15.000 Has helped them in virtually everything they do.

02:00:18.000 Yeah, I definitely agree.

02:00:20.000 You couldn't give me a billion dollars today to take away the Jiu Jitsu, I know.

02:00:27.000 There's no way.

02:00:28.000 How I feel as a man, how I talk, and how I am, He's 100% because of Jiu Jitsu and that's just something that I'm very grateful to have landed where I landed in the footsteps of following my father's footsteps and it's just a real... 0.98

02:00:45.000 Jiu Jitsu will for sure save your ass.

02:00:50.000 One way or another not necessarily a physical fight, but also being able to deal with yourself know about yourself and and It really improve yourself as a whole because it's very easy to get trapped into like a Daily life schedule and you kind of don't even tap to your potential You don't even tap into discovering yourself and realizing all these feelings I feel alive when I could compete and when I trained for a fight and when I know I got a fight and this is deadline and if you On this day, 0.97

02:01:19.000 you're going to show up, whether you're going to be ready or not, or whether you're sick or hurt.

02:01:23.000 This day, this is going to happen.

02:01:25.000 So, to know that that day is going to happen, and to be nervous, and to train for that, and to put so much energy, and wake up early, and drink this special juice, and do this, and eat healthy, and all this stuff.

02:01:41.000 That only makes you, you know, more sure of yourself and when the day happens, you know, like, then after.

02:01:47.000 So it makes me feel alive.

02:01:49.000 All these feelings that you get before you fight or when you're fighting or training for a fight, it makes me feel alive and I love that feeling.

02:01:56.000 Now, if you take away competition from my life, I will go crazy.

02:02:01.000 I will go crazy.

02:02:02.000 I just wouldn't know what to do.

02:02:04.000 Days would just seem like repetitive.

02:02:05.000 I have no passion.

02:02:07.000 I kind of lose my drive.

02:02:08.000 I kind of just start going down a dark hole so I think that jujitsu competitions really makes me feel alive and every time before I feel nervous and then after when I win or lose it, it's just you only gain and when you know that you're gonna have a fight you gain because you know that you got to be at your best so you always like how am I gonna get my better and you're never good enough and then it's just so it makes me feel real good.

02:02:35.000 One of the things that I feel is missing in today's society is that people can get by really easily.

02:02:44.000 All you have to do is show up for work, do your job, go home, eat food, go to sleep.

02:02:49.000 You don't have to struggle to acquire that food.

02:02:51.000 You don't have to...

02:02:53.000 You really go through life or death scenarios on a daily basis.

02:02:57.000 For most people, a life or death scenario is incredibly, incredibly rare.

02:03:01.000 But those scenarios are sort of replicated inside the gym on a daily basis. 0.97

02:03:08.000 Jiu-Jitsu black belt is mounting you and he's choking the shit out of you. 0.94

02:03:12.000 Survival is a key thing. 0.99

02:03:14.000 It's real.

02:03:15.000 It's real.

02:03:16.000 Like, you know, look, look, if I'm rolling and, you know, John Jacques on top of me and he's got an arm triangle and, you know, I might black out.

02:03:24.000 I'm 100% certain he's not going to kill me.

02:03:26.000 He'll tap me.

02:03:28.000 Even if he chokes me, I'll go to sleep.

02:03:30.000 I know that I'm going to survive.

02:03:32.000 But you don't feel that at the time.

02:03:34.000 When you are getting choked, that is life or death.

02:03:37.000 It really truly is.

02:03:39.000 You can't fake those feelings that you feel when you're training and you put yourself through all these situations.

02:03:44.000 I've been put to sleep many times in training.

02:03:48.000 That's a crazy feeling.

02:03:50.000 It's a crazy feeling to...

02:03:51.000 I don't want to tap and I'm going to almost get out and I'm going to almost... 1.00

02:03:56.000 And then you just wake up and your motherfuckers are laughing at you. 1.00

02:04:03.000 That's a feeling that you cannot replace. 0.99

02:04:05.000 There's no other way that you're going to be able to feel that unless you personally are living in that moment and no matter what, there's nothing more...

02:04:15.000 Intense than somebody trying to choke you.

02:04:16.000 You know, you're natural.

02:04:18.000 So you feel those feelings and how you deal with those feelings are going to really dedicate your life.

02:04:24.000 And that's how I kind of am able to read people is how they deal.

02:04:29.000 How do they deal when they're under stress?

02:04:32.000 How do they deal when they're winning?

02:04:33.000 How do they deal when everything's going good?

02:04:36.000 Are they the same person when they're losing and when they're winning?

02:04:39.000 How do they deal when somebody's out?

02:04:41.000 So...

02:04:42.000 I've kind of always been really curious to see how people are and how do they react.

02:04:51.000 How are you going to react when somebody's beating you?

02:04:53.000 How are you going to react when you're winning, when you're stronger?

02:04:58.000 Or how are you going to react when somebody's weaker and you're just trying to help?

02:05:01.000 So I think it's kind of a great experience.

02:05:04.000 Jiu-Jitsu reveals character.

02:05:06.000 Oh, I know more about my students than they know about themselves.

02:05:11.000 I'll tell them exactly where they...

02:05:13.000 I know everything about them because I've trained with them and I know what they feel, how they feel when they're feeling great, how they feel when they're feeling weak, when they...

02:05:23.000 When they're winning, I know how to feel if you're a coward, if you have heart, if you have patience, if you have dignity.

02:05:32.000 All these things are things that I can feel when I train with you.

02:05:36.000 Just give me 5-10 minutes to train with you and I'll know more about you than probably you yourself, unless you're a very experienced person with yourself.

02:05:45.000 And that's what I kind of judge my whole basis on, is how I feel.

02:05:51.000 How...

02:05:52.000 I judge somebody on how they train.

02:05:53.000 I don't judge somebody on how they talk to me.

02:05:55.000 You know, sometimes I'll get people who they're super nice and they're super, ah, yeah, and super respectful in person and they're just the perfect person, right?

02:06:03.000 And then when they train, there's this malice from them.

02:06:07.000 And I don't...

02:06:07.000 It's weird, you know?

02:06:08.000 You're like, whoa, that malice is for real.

02:06:11.000 Malice towards other...

02:06:12.000 Yeah, towards other people or just not how they were when they were normal.

02:06:16.000 You know?

02:06:17.000 So...

02:06:18.000 When they're able to act, they're able to put this show on for whoever, but when they're training, there's no way you can hide your personality.

02:06:24.000 And it goes the other way, too.

02:06:26.000 It goes to other people.

02:06:27.000 Sometimes people are very cold and rude, and that's not necessarily them.

02:06:32.000 They just don't feel necessarily...

02:06:34.000 When they train, they're respectful, and they're trying to get better.

02:06:39.000 So there's a lot of different ways that you can kind of feel people out, and I just kind of do my judgment on their training.

02:06:45.000 I don't really care what people...

02:06:47.000 Of course I care, but...

02:06:48.000 I don't judge too much on what you say and how you are.

02:06:51.000 Of course, I feel it.

02:06:53.000 But when I train with you, I'll make my final decision.

02:06:58.000 And on that note, that's a beautiful way to describe it.

02:07:00.000 I love that.

02:07:01.000 I love that statement.

02:07:02.000 When I train with you, I'll make my final decision.

02:07:05.000 That's so true, man.

02:07:06.000 That's so true.

02:07:07.000 You learn so much about someone when they train.

02:07:10.000 Now, as far as your goals, you've achieved world championship status in jujitsu.

02:07:16.000 What are your goals from now?

02:07:18.000 My goal now is to focus on MMA and to be the best I can be in MMA. So that's my new mission.

02:07:25.000 So you have aspirations to fight in the UFC? Yeah, I mean, right now I think that Japan is the better opportunity for me.

02:07:33.000 But, you know, whatever, if it's UFC or, you know, I'd love to fight.

02:07:38.000 You know, the UFC has the best fighters and the best organization.

02:07:40.000 So, of course, I would like to test myself against those guys.

02:07:44.000 So you want to try other organizations first, get your feet wet in MMA, and then eventually jump in?

02:07:49.000 I don't know exactly, but all I know is right now I have Japan to negotiate with, and I know that, of course, wherever the best fighters are, that's where I want to be.

02:07:58.000 What do you think about guys like Hadra Gracie, for example?

02:08:02.000 He's a perfect example of a guy who's a very high-level jiu-jitsu guy who just hasn't really been able to get that much going in MMA. I don't train with him, so I don't really know.

02:08:13.000 I know that he's a legend in jiu-jitsu and he's been able to really excel in jiu-jitsu.

02:08:19.000 But I don't train with him.

02:08:21.000 I don't know necessarily how well he...

02:08:24.000 What he does or anything.

02:08:26.000 So I really hope that he's able to excel in MMA and I really hope that he's able to show what he's about and bring the game to his game.

02:08:36.000 And I saw a fight with him with Kennedy, I think it was, and I just felt like he wasn't able to find his place and he wasn't able to find...

02:08:47.000 Find himself really in the fight, and I don't know if that's lack of training, lack of advice, lack of knowing what to do.

02:08:55.000 I don't know what it is really, and I'm curious to see if that's going to happen with me too.

02:08:59.000 I think it's also Tim Kennedy too.

02:09:01.000 Tim Kennedy's a stud.

02:09:02.000 Tim Kennedy's really good, very good. 0.62

02:09:03.000 He's an animal.

02:09:03.000 Very good.

02:09:04.000 He's really a dangerous guy in a lot of ways.

02:09:07.000 And there's a lot of stuff.

02:09:08.000 Weight cuts and this.

02:09:09.000 That's a big part, too.

02:09:10.000 So, there's no real...

02:09:13.000 I don't know.

02:09:13.000 And I'm not the owner of the truth to be able to tell you what he's doing or why he's not.

02:09:18.000 I don't know.

02:09:19.000 He's different than me.

02:09:21.000 He's a different size than me.

02:09:22.000 He's a huge guy. 1.00

02:09:25.000 I would love to see him just whoop ass. 0.98

02:09:27.000 I would love to see him do really well. 0.97

02:09:29.000 But his jiu-jitsu style is a little different than mine.

02:09:31.000 He's bigger.

02:09:31.000 He...

02:09:32.000 I'm not.

02:09:33.000 I have to 100% rely on my technique and my leverage and we'll see what happens.

02:09:39.000 I'm really curious.

02:09:40.000 That's why I'm in this is to see and to prove to the people what I'm about.

02:09:44.000 So I hope Harger wins and I hope he does well and I hope he's able to find himself and really be able to be where he's at, which is the number one place.

02:09:54.000 That's where he deserves to be.

02:09:55.000 Were you there for any of Hoyler's MMA fights?

02:09:58.000 No.

02:10:00.000 He had some disastrous results in MMA against some really high-level guys where it seems like maybe he took some fights that maybe wasn't quite prepared for.

02:10:14.000 Do you learn from anything like that when you see him fighting guys?

02:10:17.000 He fought Kid Yamamoto, right?

02:10:19.000 Genki Sudo and real high-level guys.

02:10:23.000 Yeah, I don't know.

02:10:24.000 I just...

02:10:26.000 He's another example, a very technical jiu-jitsu guy, very high level.

02:10:30.000 I'm curious, you know, I'm curious to see what I'm going to be about in MMA, really. 0.95

02:10:36.000 For me to say, sit here and tell you and act like I know what I'm doing and like I know the rules and like I know the truth behind everything is bullshit because I don't.

02:10:47.000 And I'm in it just like you're curious to see how I'm going to do, I'm curious to see how I'm going to do too.

02:10:51.000 And I hope I do well, and I hope I'm able to do everything that I want to do.

02:10:57.000 But I don't know.

02:10:58.000 I don't know if that's going to happen, and that's why I go there and test myself.

02:11:02.000 Because if I knew I was going to win, I probably wouldn't even fight.

02:11:05.000 Well, that's a beautiful aspect of what you're trying to do.

02:11:07.000 The fact that you're embracing a challenge.

02:11:09.000 That you are gravitating towards the most difficult thing you could possibly do.

02:11:13.000 Yeah.

02:11:14.000 And I can't wait.

02:11:15.000 I can't wait.

02:11:16.000 Look at it.

02:11:16.000 See what you're saying.

02:11:17.000 It's beautiful.

02:11:18.000 The attitude's beautiful.

02:11:20.000 Your thought process behind it, the reason why you're doing it in the first place.

02:11:23.000 It's all the right stuff, man.

02:11:25.000 All the right stuff.

02:11:26.000 Thank you, man.

02:11:26.000 Thank you.

02:11:26.000 Well, listen, man.

02:11:27.000 Thank you very much for an awesome conversation.

02:11:29.000 Thank you, man.

02:11:30.000 I look forward to seeing you compete in whatever you do, whether it's jiu-jitsu or MMA. I love your attitude.

02:11:35.000 I love all the things you've said.

02:11:37.000 I think you've opened up a lot of people's ideas and a lot of people's minds on How profound your thinking is, and I think it's very inspirational.

02:11:45.000 I appreciate it, man.

02:11:45.000 I enjoyed it very, very much.

02:11:46.000 Thank you, man.

02:11:47.000 So, if you are anywhere near Culver City, that's where your academy is?

02:11:50.000 Yep.

02:11:51.000 Give us the address, and do you have a website for the academy?

02:11:54.000 Yeah, krongracyjujitsu.com, and my Instagram is realkid.

02:12:03.000 Go there, folks.

02:12:05.000 Go.

02:12:05.000 Learn.

02:12:06.000 Train.

02:12:07.000 Some serious legacy here.

02:12:09.000 And hopefully we'll see you in MMA. I would love to call one of your fights in the UFC. That would be an honor.

02:12:14.000 Me too, man.

02:12:15.000 Thank you.

02:12:16.000 Alright.

02:12:16.000 A beautiful podcast is done, ladies and gentlemen.

02:12:19.000 Thank you to our sponsors.

02:12:20.000 Thanks to Squarespace.

02:12:21.000 Go to squarespace.com.

02:12:23.000 And use the code word Joe to save 10% off.

02:12:26.000 Go to Onnit.com.

02:12:27.000 Use the code word Rogan.

02:12:29.000 Save 10% off any and all supplements.

02:12:32.000 We'll be back tomorrow with David Seaman.

02:12:34.000 And we will be back on Thursday with Brian Callen, Steve Ranella, and Doug Duren.

02:12:41.000 We're going to talk about a hunting trip in Wisconsin and share some hilarious stories.

02:12:46.000 And we've got a lot of good guests coming. 0.99

02:12:48.000 A lot of good shit. 0.98

02:12:49.000 So we'll see you guys soon. 0.99

02:12:50.000 And much love.

The Joe Rogan Experience - February 24, 2014

Joe Rogan Experience #460 - Kron Gracie

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