The Joe Rogan Experience - May 06, 2014


Joe Rogan Experience #496 - Nick Cutter

Topics
Mother's Day roses Ting cell phone service benefits fine him $2.5 million champion preparation madness endorphins and fighting experiences boxing training bully psychology zoo apes violence pit bull aggression pit bulls sexual abuse child abuse and criminal behavior fracking fracking global warming debates comedy changes derivative literature fat comedy traumatic brain injury and testosterone regulation nanobots repairing tissue
Hosted by
Joe Rogan
Mentioned
Stephen King Ting Craig David Phil DeMores John Jones Joe Rogan Podcast Magic Johnson Lenny Bruce Jamie Salman Rushdie Joe Piscopo Dos Santos Dana White Nickelback Pitbull Donald Sterling Margaret Atwood Hunter S. Thompson Michael Jordan Richard Jenny and 88 more
Joe Rogan Experience #492 - Dave Attell Joe Rogan Experience #497 - Tim Kennedy

Episode Stats


Length

2 hours and 57 minutes

Words per minute

193.84

Word count

34,413

Sentence count

3,575

Harmful content

Misogyny

58

sentences flagged

Toxicity

711

sentences flagged

Hate speech

67

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

It's almost Mother's Day, so it's time to send your mom a beautiful bouquet of roses. And if you order them, you will get a free glass vase for only $29.99. And for just $10 more, they'll make it TWO DOUCHES more! That's 18 vibrant, multicolored roses and a FREE Glass Vase! You can't go wrong with that! That is 40% off of the regular price! But it's only available today, Tuesday, May 6th, and only while supplies last. So hurry, before it is too late, go to 1-800-Flowers.com and enter JREE or call 1-833-ROSE-FLOWERS and mention J-R-E. We are also brought to you by Ting. They decided to cut out all the nonsense that's usually associated with owning a cell phone and having cell phone coverage. Things like early termination fees, contracts, and overage fees. They re charging you for X amount of minutes, and if you get over that, it's an overage fee. You're behind the curve, you're not the problem, you re the problem. If you don't have a cell cell phone, there's something wrong with you. It's 2014, and you don t even own one. You don't even own a phone? Guess what, fuckface? That shit's ridiculous. And 98% of people would save money with Ting, because they do it better than you do. $440 is the average annual savings per device for a business with 11-and-a-half. And that's clearly just because they don't charge you less than you pay less than $440 per device. And they have all sorts of great options for a single device. You can buy one of the top-of-the-line Android Galaxy 3, Samsung Galaxy Note 3, which is now all-in-one with the Samsung Galaxy 3. They have the Samsung Note 3. And even have the Galaxy Note 4, which all have the same thing you can do it. And all of the old school school school with a flip phone. And you can buy an old school flip phone, so you can be cool to be cool and shut it off when it's open to it. Like it's cool to use your phone like that. Like, shut it down when you're done with your flip phone and then you're just done with it.

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Joe Rogan Experience" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:02.000 Hello, everybody!
00:00:05.000 This episode of the podcast is brought to you by 1-800-Flowers. 0.99
00:00:09.000 1-800-Flowers.com It's almost Mother's Day, fuckers. 0.99
00:00:13.000 That's right, it's time to send Mom some beautiful roses. 1.00
00:00:18.000 Something lovely to let her know that all that pain when she shot you out of her vagina was not for naught. 1.00
00:00:25.000 Not for naught? 0.99
00:00:25.000 You're not allowed to say that, are you? 0.99
00:00:27.000 Can't say.
00:00:28.000 Not for naught? 0.97
00:00:29.000 Seems like shitty language. 1.00
00:00:32.000 But so does shot you out of her vagina, so let's just run with it. 1.00
00:00:37.000 There's still time to send mom a beautiful rose bouquet from 1-800-Flowers.com because mom means so much to you. 0.99
00:00:46.000 You know she does.
00:00:48.000 Without her, you would not be here.
00:00:50.000 That is a fact.
00:00:51.000 Think about that.
00:00:53.000 Hmm...
00:00:54.000 For such an important occasion, I trust 1800flowers.com.
00:01:00.000 And right now, 1800flowers.com is giving my listeners a free...
00:01:03.000 I feel like I shouldn't call you my listeners.
00:01:06.000 That seems a bit douchey.
00:01:08.000 Almost as douchey as saying the Joe Rogan experience when my name is actually Joe Rogan.
00:01:13.000 So I stopped saying that.
00:01:14.000 So I'm not going to say my listeners. 0.99
00:01:16.000 How about you bitches? 1.00
00:01:17.000 Giving you bitches a special offer on Mother's Day. 1.00
00:01:20.000 18 vibrant multicolored roses. 0.98
00:01:24.000 And if you order them, you will get a free glass vase for only $29.99.
00:01:31.000 That's 18 vibrant multicolored roses and a free glass vase for $29.99.
00:01:39.000 And for just $10 more, They'll make it two dozen roses.
00:01:44.000 And a glass vase.
00:01:46.000 And a delicious box of chocolates.
00:01:48.000 You can't go wrong.
00:01:49.000 That is 40% off of the regular price.
00:01:52.000 You cannot beat this amazing offer.
00:01:54.000 But it's only available today, Tuesday, May 6th.
00:01:58.000 And only while supplies last. 0.99
00:02:02.000 Because this shit's gonna fly off the shelf. 0.99
00:02:05.000 So hurry. 1.00
00:02:06.000 Before it is too late, go to 1-800-Flowers.com from your desktop or mobile device.
00:02:12.000 Click on the radio microphone in the upper right-hand corner and enter in JRE. That's 1-800-Flowers.com and enter J-R-E or call 1-800-Flowers and mention J-R-E. We are also brought to you by Ting.
00:02:36.000 They decided to cut out all the nonsense that's usually associated with owning a cell phone and having cell phone coverage.
00:02:44.000 Things like early termination fees, things like contracts, things like charging you for X amount of minutes and if you get over that, it's an overage fee.
00:02:54.000 The way Ting handles it, it's much cleaner and in my opinion, it's just more ethical. 0.96
00:03:01.000 Look, cell phone companies know they have you by the balls. 0.96
00:03:04.000 You need a cell phone. 0.99
00:03:05.000 Everybody does. 0.99
00:03:06.000 If you're one of those fucking weird contrarians, it's like, I don't even own a cell phone. 1.00
00:03:11.000 Guess what, fuckface? 1.00
00:03:12.000 You're behind the curve. 1.00
00:03:13.000 That shit's ridiculous. 1.00
00:03:15.000 It's 2014. If you don't have a cell phone, there's something wrong with you. 1.00
00:03:19.000 It's you. 0.92
00:03:20.000 You're the problem. 0.92
00:03:21.000 But...
00:03:23.000 If you do have a cell phone, you know the pitfalls.
00:03:26.000 Ting eliminates almost all of them.
00:03:27.000 First of all, they buy time on the Sprint backbone.
00:03:30.000 So what they do is they rent Sprint service.
00:03:33.000 And then they sell it back to you.
00:03:35.000 But they do it in a really simple, easy way.
00:03:37.000 Instead of saying, you get X amount of minutes per month, you just pay for what you use.
00:03:42.000 If you use more, you pay more.
00:03:45.000 If you use less, you pay less.
00:03:47.000 And 98% of people, 98% Would save money with Ting.
00:03:54.000 And that is clearly just because they do mobile differently.
00:03:59.000 $440 is the average annual savings per device for a business with 11 to 20 employees. 1.00
00:04:07.000 Think about that shit. 0.99
00:04:08.000 And they have great phones. 1.00
00:04:10.000 You can bring over iPhones from Sprint iPhone 4, iPhone 5. You can buy one of their awesome Android devices.
00:04:17.000 They all have the top-of-the-line Android phones.
00:04:20.000 They have the Samsung Galaxy Note 3, which is what I have with Ting now.
00:04:26.000 I ported my Galaxy Note over to Ting now.
00:04:30.000 They have the HTC One.
00:04:32.000 They have all sorts of different options.
00:04:35.000 And even they've gone old school. 0.99
00:04:37.000 You can buy one of those old fucking flip phones if you're into it. 0.98
00:04:41.000 They have all kinds of different styles and different options for both the type of phone you have and the way you use your phone. 0.99
00:04:55.000 If you're one of those people that really likes to use a flip phone, and we were talking about it the other day, there's a benefit.
00:05:00.000 There's just something cool about being able to open it and then shut it when the phone's off.
00:05:04.000 Like, I'm done with you.
00:05:06.000 Close that phone. 0.88
00:05:07.000 You don't get that by pressing your thumb on glass.
00:05:10.000 You also, you don't get that same feeling you get when you actually press a button to type a number.
00:05:15.000 I do miss that.
00:05:16.000 There's a benefit in that.
00:05:17.000 But that's all nonsense.
00:05:19.000 You can get that anywhere.
00:05:20.000 The bottom line is what you can get with Ting is no bullshit cell phone service, excellent coverage because they use a Sprint backbone, and you can get really good phones. 0.98
00:05:30.000 And you can cut out all the nonsense where you don't feel like you're getting fucked over. 0.93
00:05:35.000 And I think that's one of the most important things about what Ting offers. 0.63
00:05:39.000 I think every cell phone service in the future is going to have to shift over to their model of pricing.
00:05:45.000 Because I think the idea of you only getting a certain amount of minutes, and if you get over that, they charge you for it. 1.00
00:05:52.000 That's all stupid. 0.99
00:05:53.000 Just pay for what you use. 1.00
00:05:54.000 And if you use very little, you pay very little.
00:05:57.000 And as I said, for most people, you would save money with Ting. 0.70
00:06:00.000 98% of people.
00:06:03.000 That's quite a claim.
00:06:04.000 The thing I like about Ting is on their second anniversary, for no reason, they just decided to slash prices.
00:06:11.000 They slashed their prices because they got a better offer.
00:06:14.000 They decided, hey, let's celebrate two years in business.
00:06:17.000 Let's celebrate an ethic that people seem to be resonating with.
00:06:20.000 And let's just slash prices. 0.95
00:06:22.000 And it's particularly beneficial for power users. 0.99
00:06:26.000 So if you're one of those dudes that's on Twitter all day and downloading videos and that kind of shit, Ting is for you. 0.61
00:06:32.000 So go to rogan.ting.com and save $25 off of any of their new delicious Android devices. 0.96
00:06:39.000 That's rogan.ting.com.
00:06:42.000 We're also brought to you by Onnit.
00:06:47.000 On it is what we call a human optimization website.
00:06:51.000 What we try to carry and sell is all the best things that we can find.
00:06:57.000 Whether it is strength and conditioning equipment, whether it is foods and healthy snacks, whether it is supplements like Alpha Brain or Shroom Tech Sport or New Mood, we try to send you or sell you the very best nutritional supplements,
00:07:13.000 the very best Yeah. 0.98
00:07:31.000 That aren't allowed to grow their own because their fucking goofy government forbids it because hemp knows marijuana. 1.00
00:07:38.000 They're like cousins. 0.99
00:07:39.000 They know each other real well.
00:07:41.000 The government doesn't trust hemp.
00:07:43.000 It's too close.
00:07:44.000 Too close to that marijuana criminal.
00:07:47.000 You do not test positive.
00:07:48.000 It's a big question.
00:07:49.000 I have to answer it.
00:07:50.000 I have to talk about it every time.
00:07:52.000 You do not test positive for THC if you buy hemp. 1.00
00:07:57.000 I have to say this because the fucking retards that run the customs in New Zealand, oh my god, you dummies. 1.00
00:08:07.000 I had a friend who ordered some shit in New Zealand and customs, they took and destroyed his hemp force protein powder. 1.00
00:08:15.000 You dummies. 1.00
00:08:17.000 It's probably some thieves. 0.99
00:08:19.000 The customs, they probably stole it and they're probably making their own protein shakes now and laughing their dicks off.
00:08:24.000 But according to him, what they said was that they confiscated and destroyed his hemp forest because they thought it was a marijuana product.
00:08:34.000 We live in a time that will be mocked one day.
00:08:38.000 Mocked the same way we mock powdered wigs and putting skirts over tables, the way they used to put table leg dresses in the olden days to keep people from getting impure thoughts.
00:08:49.000 They will mock us.
00:08:50.000 They will mock us for this thing that we have with hemp.
00:08:54.000 But we sell it, and if you're in America or in a country that's not retarded, you can buy it, and you can eat it, and it's good for you. 0.99
00:09:00.000 But you should know that you can test positive for some things that aren't drugs.
00:09:05.000 Like, if you eat poppy seed bagels, you will test positive for heroin.
00:09:09.000 I know it sounds crazy, but it is true. 1.00
00:09:12.000 The other things that we carry on it, things like Warrior Bar, which is one of our new products, which is a completely natural product.
00:09:20.000 Buffalo Meat Bar.
00:09:21.000 Buffalo and cranberries.
00:09:23.000 It's made by an old Native American recipe for preserving meat.
00:09:27.000 And there's no antibiotics, no added hormones, no nitrates.
00:09:31.000 And each bar has 140 calories, only 4 grams of fat, and 14 grams of protein per each 2-ounce serving.
00:09:42.000 Super healthy for you.
00:09:43.000 No MSG, no soy, no lactose.
00:09:48.000 And you can eat these and, you know, not worry about what you're putting into your body.
00:09:53.000 Not worry about, you know, sometimes you're hungry and you want a snack.
00:09:58.000 You don't want to feel guilty afterwards, folks.
00:10:00.000 Eat Warrior Bar, not feel guilty.
00:10:03.000 Is that racist?
00:10:05.000 Sounding like an Indian there. 1.00
00:10:06.000 Anyway, go to Onnit.com, O-N-N-I-T, use the code word ROGAN, and save 10% off any and all supplements. 0.85
00:10:12.000 We've got a lot of cool shit coming at Onnit, too.
00:10:15.000 I wish I could tell you about the latest in the Creative Kettlebell series, but it's awesome. 0.56
00:10:20.000 I'll show you, Jamie, afterwards.
00:10:21.000 You might have.
00:10:22.000 You might have.
00:10:25.000 I'll show you the newest version.
00:10:27.000 Anyway, go to Onnit.com.
00:10:28.000 O-N-N-I-T. Use the code word ROGAN. Save 10% off any and all supplements.
00:10:32.000 And a lot of inspirational and educational information on Onnit as well.
00:10:36.000 Even if you're not into buying something, go there and get your freak on.
00:10:39.000 All right.
00:10:40.000 Nick Cutter, a.k.a.
00:10:41.000 Craig Davidson, is here.
00:10:43.000 Cue the music, young Jamie.
00:10:45.000 Joe Rogan Podcast.
00:10:47.000 Check it out.
00:10:47.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.
00:10:50.000 Train by day.
00:10:51.000 Joe Rogan Podcast by night.
00:10:52.000 All day.
00:11:00.000 So my pal Matt Staggs, he sends me this book.
00:11:02.000 And he's like, dude, you gotta read this book. 0.99
00:11:04.000 This book is fucked up. 0.99
00:11:05.000 You're gonna love it. 0.99
00:11:06.000 Because he knows I love Stephen King and that sort of twisted genre.
00:11:11.000 So he sends me this book right here.
00:11:14.000 It's in my bag here somewhere.
00:11:17.000 He sends me your book. 1.00
00:11:19.000 And I enjoy the fucking shit out of it. 0.99
00:11:22.000 Thanks. 0.99
00:11:22.000 I want to pull it out because it's so beat up and dog-eared. 0.99
00:11:26.000 It proves that I've actually been reading it.
00:11:28.000 Nothing looks better.
00:11:29.000 Oh, there we go.
00:11:29.000 The Troop.
00:11:30.000 And I guess I'm about 200 plus pages into it.
00:11:36.000 It's really getting juicy.
00:11:38.000 I'm really enjoying it, man.
00:11:39.000 Good.
00:11:40.000 It's really good.
00:11:40.000 Good, good.
00:11:41.000 Thank you.
00:11:41.000 It's really fun, and it's along the lines of Stand By Me or one of those classic old Stephen King books, like The Stand or Pet Sematary, where it's just twisted and dark,
00:11:59.000 and there's psychological shit going on, and there's horrific things happening, there's monsters, and it's really fucking cool, man.
00:12:08.000 And When he sent it to me, he told me that Nick Cutter wasn't your real name. 0.93
00:12:13.000 And I was like, well, what's...
00:12:14.000 What's the deal there?
00:12:15.000 Yeah, what is...
00:12:16.000 What's the deal there?
00:12:17.000 Well, you know, I think the most concerning thing to me would be is that anyone...
00:12:22.000 Because, I mean, I grew up like you.
00:12:24.000 Like, Stephen King is my idol.
00:12:26.000 Steve, there's nobody I've read more than Stephen King.
00:12:28.000 And beyond that, like, I grew up as a horror reader.
00:12:31.000 I mean, I've read everything now.
00:12:33.000 I mean, you sort of diversify.
00:12:35.000 But I wouldn't even say diversify, because that's sort of like...
00:12:37.000 I love...
00:12:38.000 The horror genre.
00:12:40.000 So like Clyde Barker, obviously Stephen King, Peter Straub, Robert R. McCammon.
00:12:45.000 I mean, the list goes on and on and on.
00:12:46.000 That was sort of who I cut my teeth on.
00:12:48.000 So really my agent said, listen, you've been writing these things under your own name and they're kind of...
00:12:54.000 I wouldn't even classify them as literary, but maybe they would be a little more to that side rather than the horror genre.
00:13:01.000 And he sort of felt like, listen, people aren't going to...
00:13:05.000 People might be confused or people might, you know, let's have some separation basically.
00:13:10.000 And the best way to do this separation is just to give you a new name, put this horror work, because when I sent him the troupe, I mean there's no way it's anything other than just like, I wanted to write like an 80s style.
00:13:22.000 Hard fireball and sort of horror novel.
00:13:24.000 Like not splitting any hairs, not trying to make it meta-ironic or anything, just trying to go straight ahead the horror that I grew up loving and try and sort of be an homage to those writers in that time.
00:13:36.000 So there's no doubt it was going to come out as clearly a horror novel.
00:13:39.000 So he said, let's just make up a pseudonym.
00:13:42.000 And I wouldn't say I'm new to this, but...
00:13:46.000 You know, you have an agent as well.
00:13:48.000 I mean, I trust my agent.
00:13:50.000 I imagine in most cases you trust your agent, maybe not always.
00:13:53.000 I don't trust them at all.
00:13:53.000 No, they don't get to talk to me.
00:13:57.000 That type of thing, yeah.
00:13:58.000 I don't allow them.
00:14:01.000 I think maybe looking back, you know, what we did is we settled on this pseudonym and then I quickly went away, you know, trying to erase any sort of sentiment that I was ashamed of it.
00:14:11.000 Because I think that's...
00:14:11.000 I live in Toronto and I hang out with a lot of people in the horror genre, sort of genre writers, and their question was, like, are you ashamed?
00:14:17.000 I'm like, fuck no. 0.90
00:14:19.000 That would be the worst thing for me for people to think that, you know, because I'm as proud as what I've done as The Troop as any other writing I've ever done. 0.95
00:14:26.000 So when you say literary, what are your other books?
00:14:29.000 I'm not familiar with your other books.
00:14:30.000 The other books...
00:14:31.000 I wrote a book called Rust and Bone, which is like a book...
00:14:35.000 Is it fiction?
00:14:37.000 Yeah, short stories.
00:14:39.000 And then I wrote a book called The Fighter.
00:14:41.000 Not the same Fighter, the Christian Bale movie.
00:14:44.000 And I wrote a book just recently called Cataract City, which is...
00:14:47.000 So it's sort of like, I don't know, I wouldn't say Chuck Palahniuk, he was an early influence, but sort of like macho, like fighting, boxing, dogfighting, repossession, you know, those were sort of the things, really sort of manly endeavors that I was concerned about and interested in with those books.
00:15:05.000 But they certainly weren't literary like Alice Munro or something like that.
00:15:09.000 I don't know who Alice Munro is.
00:15:11.000 She's a Canadian short story writer like Salman Rushdie or Philip Roth, those kind of serious literary writers.
00:15:21.000 All I know about Salman Rushdie is a bunch of Muslims really mad at him. 0.84
00:15:25.000 Don't like that dude.
00:15:25.000 And then Cat Stevens was on their side and I was very disappointed.
00:15:29.000 And he was finally allowed to stick his head up after, I don't know, like they put a fatwa out on him, right?
00:15:34.000 Is it over?
00:15:35.000 Is the fatwa over?
00:15:36.000 I think the guy who put it out died.
00:15:39.000 So I think the fatwa died with him. 0.96
00:15:41.000 Or maybe they carried it over.
00:15:42.000 I don't really know how that works, but he is showing up at public functions, so I think he's less concerned about being killed.
00:15:48.000 Poor guy.
00:15:49.000 Yeah, you think about, like, man, of all the stuff, could you imagine someone puts a fatwa on you for something that you say during a podcast? 0.98
00:15:55.000 Well, it's pretty ridiculous. 0.76
00:15:56.000 Yeah, yeah. 1.00
00:15:57.000 I would find out whoever did it and I'd kill them. 1.00
00:15:59.000 Can you get to them first? 1.00
00:16:01.000 Yeah, if you can just kill the guy and the fatwa ends, that's... 0.99
00:16:04.000 Yeah. 1.00
00:16:04.000 You're fucked. 1.00
00:16:05.000 Yeah, exactly. 1.00
00:16:06.000 They shouldn't be putting out too many fatwas because it's like, I'm going to get you. 0.93
00:16:09.000 It's the day and age you can't hide behind a fatwa anymore. 1.00
00:16:12.000 No, exactly.
00:16:13.000 In today's internet, you know...
00:16:14.000 They can find you, but I can find you too.
00:16:16.000 You could publicly expose them for their fatwa shaming. 1.00
00:16:19.000 That's right.
00:16:21.000 So, I'm not familiar with Salman Rushdie's work.
00:16:25.000 I read a little bit of it and I found it quite boring.
00:16:27.000 To me, honestly, yeah.
00:16:28.000 I think, too, there's somewhat with...
00:16:31.000 Literary writing.
00:16:32.000 I had to read it because you went to school and did an English degree.
00:16:35.000 So I feel like there's medicine.
00:16:38.000 It's good for you.
00:16:40.000 There's a sense of you should be reading it because it's good for you and it'll make you a better person.
00:16:44.000 But I'm past all that now.
00:16:46.000 I just like to read what I like to read.
00:16:48.000 And if that happens to be sort of crunchy literary fiction where it's like dense text, well, fine.
00:16:54.000 But if it's something like a really good horror novel or a thriller novel, I mean...
00:16:58.000 I'm all over that too.
00:17:00.000 Yeah, as far as I'm concerned, when it comes to fiction, whether it's a film or whether it's a book, I only want to be entertained.
00:17:06.000 Totally.
00:17:07.000 You're not illuminating, elucidating.
00:17:10.000 You're not enriching me with your fiction.
00:17:12.000 No.
00:17:12.000 You're just not.
00:17:13.000 I agree.
00:17:14.000 But you go to school, right?
00:17:15.000 And you have too much time on your hands, right?
00:17:18.000 You wake up in the morning and what do you have to do?
00:17:20.000 Maybe go to a class for two hours a day.
00:17:22.000 Yeah.
00:17:23.000 And so I think people in that realm feel like they, because they have the time to, like, invest in, like, really crunchy mind sort of melting, you know, fiction that really tests you.
00:17:33.000 But, you know, and then they sort of look down on someone who just wants to read, like, for example, I didn't mention at all in my first, when I did my English degree, you won't talk about Stephen King.
00:17:43.000 Isn't that fun?
00:17:43.000 Because you get these sort of looks like, oh, him.
00:17:46.000 Oh, well, yeah, I used to read him when I was 12. Yeah, he gets mocked.
00:17:49.000 Yeah, he gets mocked.
00:17:50.000 And I was like...
00:17:51.000 You know, after a while, you're just like, wait a sec. 1.00
00:17:53.000 Fuck off. 1.00
00:17:53.000 You know, like, I love Stephen King. 1.00
00:17:55.000 I love a lot of writers that you guys seem to think are...
00:17:59.000 You know, base or below your esteem.
00:18:01.000 And who are you in the first place?
00:18:03.000 We're just sitting in some writing workshop. 0.99
00:18:04.000 You haven't published a goddamn thing. 1.00
00:18:06.000 Like, not to be an asshole. 1.00
00:18:08.000 I mean, I like some of these people that I'm talking about. 0.99
00:18:10.000 But, like, you know, yeah, there was that certain hierarchy, unless you're reading at this level.
00:18:16.000 But it's like, most of people who like to read have, like, a job that really occupies them.
00:18:21.000 And they get home at night, maybe, and they don't have all that much energy.
00:18:23.000 They just want to read, you know, for enjoyment.
00:18:26.000 You know, and why look down on that?
00:18:28.000 Yeah, and any time you're concerned about image so much so that you're ignoring great works like Stephen King.
00:18:35.000 Yeah, exactly.
00:18:36.000 Stephen King wrote some really fun stuff.
00:18:38.000 Absolutely.
00:18:38.000 And deeply psychologically thrilling as well.
00:18:43.000 You can't dismiss The Stand.
00:18:45.000 No.
00:18:45.000 You just can't.
00:18:47.000 Or It.
00:18:47.000 Yeah, or It.
00:18:49.000 Salem's Lot.
00:18:50.000 And one thing that I noticed too, like...
00:18:52.000 Trying to write a horror book is...
00:18:54.000 I think it's really difficult to scare people in this day and age, right?
00:18:57.000 Like, it's...
00:18:58.000 And so, you would probably...
00:19:00.000 I don't know.
00:19:00.000 Maybe you can answer this a little bit in terms of, like, in comedy.
00:19:03.000 Like, I read Stephen King when I was 12. And I just read him...
00:19:06.000 First of all, he's the writer that got boys to read of our generation, you know?
00:19:11.000 I mean, there's nothing else other than maybe Choose Your Own Adventure books that I was reading back then until I sort of graduated to Stephen King.
00:19:17.000 Yeah.
00:19:17.000 And so first you read it just because you love Stephen King.
00:19:21.000 And then second, you know, I went back as a writer myself and you sort of treat the book as like an engine.
00:19:27.000 The way a mechanic treats an engine, you're trying to break it down and see what is working.
00:19:31.000 How does this work?
00:19:32.000 How does he scare you?
00:19:33.000 And that's where you realize his genius because it's like...
00:19:37.000 You know, I'm working on like a Model T Ford, and he's got like this, he's working on the DeLorean engine from Back to the Future.
00:19:44.000 That's how much he's above, you know, a lot of us in terms of like, he works at a level, I think, of like Conjuring Fear that is so difficult to, first of all, see how it works, break it down, and then try and do it yourself.
00:19:58.000 And so when you have people looking down on him for that, I just don't think they've really interacted with his work as closely as I have.
00:20:06.000 Because first of all, if you're saying he sucks, I'm like, I can't even touch him in some ways.
00:20:10.000 And so what are you saying about me? 0.98
00:20:11.000 Well, I just think it's one of those things where it becomes... 1.00
00:20:16.000 It's trendy to say he sucks. 0.97
00:20:18.000 It puts you in this sort of elevated category of intellectual. 1.00
00:20:23.000 I think that's horseshit because fiction, like when you start talking about monsters or vampires, you're automatically a fool or you're doing foolish work. 0.99
00:20:33.000 Yes, yeah. 1.00
00:20:33.000 Whereas if you're talking about depression and suicide and, you know, abortion... 1.00
00:20:38.000 Stop! 1.00
00:20:39.000 I'm done with you.
00:20:41.000 When it comes to fictional movies especially, like if someone says, oh my god, it was an amazing movie.
00:20:46.000 I cried my eyes out.
00:20:48.000 It was so horrible.
00:20:49.000 Not me. 1.00
00:20:49.000 I'm not going to see your piece of shit where you make me cry. 1.00
00:20:52.000 I don't want to cry. 1.00
00:20:53.000 There's plenty of opportunity to cry.
00:20:55.000 You want to cry, watch a documentary on Rwanda, okay? 1.00
00:20:58.000 Don't fucking cry because some fake asshole made some stupid movie where some people are pretending terrible things happen. 1.00
00:21:06.000 Yeah. 1.00
00:21:06.000 You're not going to learn from that. 1.00
00:21:08.000 You're just not.
00:21:09.000 I like to be elevated by my fiction, or at least thrilled.
00:21:13.000 Yeah, totally.
00:21:15.000 I don't want to cry.
00:21:15.000 No, no.
00:21:16.000 I mean, and I completely agree.
00:21:18.000 And so, and what another thing Stephen King does really well is childhood.
00:21:23.000 I don't think there's another writer, to my mind, really, who writes about childhood as well as Stephen King captures it in a book like It or the movie The Body that became Stand By Me.
00:21:34.000 He captures that time in a boy's life especially.
00:21:40.000 It's just remarkable, you know what I mean?
00:21:41.000 And so I think now, too, I know Patton Oswalt did like, I think it was, I forget where he did it, but he did like a long article based on his admiration, really, for Stephen King.
00:21:50.000 So I think now there's a renaissance, finally, Stephen King has got to be close to 70 now, where people are finally like, okay, this guy's pretty good.
00:21:58.000 Well, again, it's just one of those things.
00:22:00.000 People love calling someone out or they love shaming someone.
00:22:05.000 They love diminishing someone's work.
00:22:07.000 They just enjoy it.
00:22:10.000 Especially if it elevates them.
00:22:12.000 Yes, yeah.
00:22:13.000 Or it's like a hipstery thing. 1.00
00:22:15.000 It's like, well, too many people like this.
00:22:16.000 It can't be good because too many people like it.
00:22:19.000 And I have to like these sort of offbeat...
00:22:21.000 Well, haven't you read The Offbeat Peruvian Poet?
00:22:25.000 No, I haven't.
00:22:26.000 I mean, I'm sure he or she is awesome, maybe, but...
00:22:28.000 Maybe not.
00:22:29.000 Maybe not, exactly. 0.99
00:22:30.000 How many times have someone tried to turn you on to a band and they tell you it's amazing and it's shit? 0.97
00:22:35.000 Yeah, you've got to go down to a basement somewhere and they'll be playing to five people. 0.99
00:22:39.000 Or they send you...
00:22:41.000 All the time people send me a YouTube clip and it's... 1.00
00:22:44.000 Dog shit. 1.00
00:22:46.000 Dog shit music. 1.00
00:22:47.000 And they're like, this is amazing, this band. 1.00
00:22:49.000 They're so nuanced.
00:22:50.000 Yeah, that's right.
00:22:51.000 That's right.
00:22:52.000 And if you don't get it, then...
00:22:55.000 You're out.
00:22:55.000 Yeah, I guess that's sort of like your lapse in judgment or ability to really recognize how good this is.
00:23:00.000 And that's what separates them from you.
00:23:02.000 You're just not complex enough.
00:23:04.000 That's right.
00:23:04.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:23:06.000 That's right.
00:23:06.000 A.K.A. Craig Davidson.
00:23:08.000 Yeah, I am lacking in some serious way.
00:23:11.000 You know, Stephen King, it's an interesting comparison that you said that Stephen King captures childhood really well.
00:23:17.000 Because I think that's something you did really well in this book as well.
00:23:21.000 Thank you.
00:23:21.000 You captured this sort of Lord of the Flies type scenario.
00:23:26.000 I don't want to give away too much of the script.
00:23:28.000 Sure.
00:23:28.000 But when things go awry in the beginning, you sort of see this social hierarchy that's going on and you see shifts.
00:23:36.000 In this social hierarchy based on the events that take place.
00:23:39.000 And it's quite fascinating.
00:23:42.000 I really wish that you did it under your own name.
00:23:44.000 And I hope that like Richard Bachman.
00:23:48.000 Why did Stephen King do that?
00:23:49.000 Why did he go with Bachman?
00:23:51.000 Yeah.
00:23:51.000 Why he did it is because he was too prolific.
00:23:55.000 Is that what it was?
00:23:56.000 Yeah.
00:23:56.000 His agent just said, listen, man, first of all, like, I don't get it, man.
00:23:59.000 Because he's probably got, because he's still, to this day, he's still pumping out books at an enormous rate and big, like, slobber knocking books.
00:24:06.000 He's not, you know, little tiny.
00:24:09.000 So I think he probably writes, like, me on a good day, I can write, like, maybe 3,000 words.
00:24:13.000 That's if, like, the pistons are firing really well.
00:24:15.000 And I try and write 1,000 words every day.
00:24:17.000 You know, that's sort of my limit.
00:24:19.000 Yeah.
00:24:19.000 But he must write like 5,000 words a day, consistently, and it's strong, strong stuff.
00:24:24.000 So that was why Bachman came to be, because his agent was like, listen, we just can't be flooding the market with Stephen King.
00:24:31.000 We gotta, let's separate you out, let's just put some of these stuff out under a different name, and then, you know, you still have your book out every year, which is still at an astronomical rate.
00:24:40.000 So yeah, it was just, for him it was totally a sense of he just had too much to say.
00:24:44.000 Wow.
00:24:45.000 That's amazing.
00:24:46.000 And he eventually took those Bachman books and put them under Stephen King.
00:24:50.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:24:50.000 It became like an open secret, really.
00:24:52.000 And you're right, then he republished them under his own name, basically.
00:24:56.000 What was the movie that they did?
00:24:59.000 The Dark Half?
00:25:00.000 Yes.
00:25:00.000 Was that a Bachman book?
00:25:03.000 I'm not sure, but it was based on really, it was based, Richard Stark or George Stark was his pseudonym, and that's when his pseudonym started stalking him, right?
00:25:11.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:25:12.000 That was definitely based on his experience having written under a pseudonym.
00:25:16.000 That might have been a Bachman book.
00:25:19.000 But that was another example of his ability to sort of not just be so prolific, but also be prolific under some really established territory as far as his work.
00:25:33.000 He was always a writer.
00:25:35.000 Yes.
00:25:36.000 How many times did he do a book about a writer?
00:25:38.000 A writer character.
00:25:39.000 Yeah, yeah, I know.
00:25:40.000 I think it's because the narrative is easier to write from that perspective, you know, even the voice that you find, I think, because it's like, oh, I'm a writer, this voice is...
00:25:48.000 Because I was reading, rereading The Body lately, made into Stand By Me, and that's, again, that's a writer character who's writing that, and...
00:25:56.000 You're right.
00:25:56.000 He does have a lot of writer characters, which is something I've avoided up to this point, but, you know...
00:26:01.000 A lot of writers in Maine.
00:26:02.000 What's that?
00:26:03.000 A lot of writers in Maine.
00:26:04.000 Yeah, you're right.
00:26:05.000 It's almost all set in Maine.
00:26:06.000 He sort of staked out that territory.
00:26:08.000 Absolutely.
00:26:09.000 Have you ever been to Maine?
00:26:10.000 Yeah, many times.
00:26:11.000 I've never.
00:26:12.000 I used to live in New Brunswick, which is sort of right above Maine.
00:26:15.000 But I never crossed the border and went down into Stephen King territory. 1.00
00:26:18.000 It's stupid. 0.99
00:26:19.000 I should have. 1.00
00:26:19.000 There's some beautiful parts of Maine, but the... 1.00
00:26:23.000 I want to be kind, if I can. 1.00
00:26:26.000 They're some of the dumbest human beings that live there on the face of the planet. 1.00
00:26:29.000 I'm being kind when I say that. 1.00
00:26:30.000 No one will take disrespect at that. 0.99
00:26:32.000 Yeah, if I was being unkind, I would call them a bunch of kid fucking weirdos that live in the woods. 0.99
00:26:40.000 Not all of them. 0.99
00:26:41.000 There's great parts of Maine.
00:26:43.000 Bangor's a great city.
00:26:45.000 The real problem with Maine is there's some areas where there's nothing.
00:26:49.000 Like, there's an area between Portland, Maine, and Bangor, when you're driving up from Boston, where you go at least an hour without seeing anything, driving 70 miles an hour, and no radio.
00:26:59.000 There's nothing.
00:26:59.000 Oh, you can't even catch a station?
00:27:00.000 We won't get anything.
00:27:02.000 That is desolate. 1.00
00:27:03.000 You hit scan and your fucking radio starts smoking. 1.00
00:27:06.000 It just keeps going. 1.00
00:27:08.000 There's nothing.
00:27:09.000 I mean, I don't know how it is now.
00:27:11.000 There's no gas stations, man.
00:27:13.000 There's just a straight shot of like 70 miles.
00:27:16.000 Of just arid pine trees or whatever. 0.56
00:27:19.000 If you run out of gas, you're fucksville. 0.94
00:27:20.000 Oh, man. 1.00
00:27:21.000 And if it's snowing out, you're fucked, though. 1.00
00:27:23.000 You're really fucked. 1.00
00:27:24.000 Yeah. 1.00
00:27:24.000 We used to do that drive all the time, because we used to do gigs up in Bangor. 1.00
00:27:28.000 Oh, okay.
00:27:28.000 And if you made fun of Maine, even at all, I mean, even slightly, people would get up and scream at you.
00:27:36.000 You'd call them maniacs. 0.99
00:27:37.000 If you called them maniacs, you'd get up and get fucking nutty. 1.00
00:27:41.000 Maine! 1.00
00:27:42.000 They love it.
00:27:43.000 They love it up there.
00:27:44.000 It's beautiful.
00:27:45.000 I mean, it's an absolutely beautiful country.
00:27:47.000 And, you know, they have everything up there.
00:27:49.000 Deer and moose.
00:27:50.000 Yeah, it's like great that way.
00:27:51.000 So if you want to get back to nature, I feel like that's probably the place you might start.
00:27:54.000 You want to be a survivalist.
00:27:56.000 Maine might be a place to get your crew started.
00:27:59.000 It's probably one of the least populated states in the Union.
00:28:02.000 Yeah, it's way out there, you know, because for us too, New Brunswick is pretty, you know, you're well east at that point.
00:28:08.000 But what's odd is Montreal is north of Maine, yet completely cosmopolitan.
00:28:16.000 Totally, yeah, yeah.
00:28:17.000 Very modern in every respect.
00:28:19.000 The people are fantastic and educated.
00:28:22.000 You've been up there, I guess, for MMA events and comedy events as well, both...
00:28:26.000 For both.
00:28:27.000 I've been going to Montreal since the early 90s, probably since 1990 itself is when I first started going up there.
00:28:35.000 I love Montreal.
00:28:36.000 Yeah, I do too.
00:28:37.000 We've never had an opportunity to live there.
00:28:39.000 I've lived well across the country, but of course there's the Francophone influence there, which I don't know.
00:28:45.000 I guess you going up there as an American...
00:28:47.000 I don't know how much interaction you have with that necessarily.
00:28:50.000 A lot, yeah.
00:28:50.000 Do you really?
00:28:51.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:28:52.000 Well, of course, yeah.
00:28:53.000 I mean, a lot of great MMA fighters, or at least a couple, are Francophone GSP and Patrick Cote and Loiseau, David Loiseau.
00:29:02.000 David Loiseau, Francis Carmon.
00:29:05.000 The TriStar Gym from Montreal is one of the best MMA gyms in the world.
00:29:11.000 Which I don't know how that happened, you know, because MMA, like I used to live in Calgary, and that's actually another odd MMA hotbed.
00:29:18.000 There's a lot of interest.
00:29:19.000 I don't know if there's a lot of great fighters yet who have come out of Calgary.
00:29:22.000 There's quite a few.
00:29:24.000 Are there now?
00:29:24.000 Good fighters, very good fighters.
00:29:25.000 Good fighters coming up, and I did a magazine article on one guy who...
00:29:31.000 You know, I just followed him to his first professional fight, actually, which was an interesting sort of thing to follow.
00:29:36.000 And he actually, he hurt himself really badly in that fight.
00:29:38.000 And that was it.
00:29:39.000 That was his career.
00:29:42.000 But I know the gym that he was working out of had, it was, I mean, it was, I've rarely been and felt that level of like, camaraderie, but also competition, sort of in such a tight, small area.
00:29:54.000 So, yeah.
00:29:55.000 That's how you build great fighters.
00:29:57.000 Yeah, I had that pressure.
00:29:59.000 Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:30:00.000 Yeah.
00:30:00.000 Yeah, I don't know what it is about Canada and producing mixed martial arts fighters, but also mixed martial arts fans.
00:30:07.000 I think there's more MMA fans per capita in Canada than anywhere.
00:30:10.000 Yeah, you blow out the Toronto, what is it, the Air Canada Centre.
00:30:14.000 We sell that place out, I think.
00:30:16.000 They sold out the Rogers Centre, too.
00:30:18.000 Yeah, the Rogers Centre, yeah.
00:30:19.000 That gigantic, huge place that used to have a different name, right?
00:30:23.000 Yeah.
00:30:25.000 Skydome.
00:30:25.000 Skydome.
00:30:26.000 Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:30:27.000 And that's amazing.
00:30:28.000 60,000 people.
00:30:29.000 60,000 to what?
00:30:30.000 And it was GSP's fight, I think.
00:30:32.000 Yeah, versus Jake Shields.
00:30:34.000 Oh, that's right.
00:30:34.000 That's right.
00:30:35.000 Yeah, we are.
00:30:36.000 We're a great supporting nation.
00:30:39.000 You know, we just had the Raptors just got bounced out of the playoffs like the basketball team.
00:30:43.000 And...
00:30:44.000 You know, selling out, and then they had like 20,000 fans clustered outside of the arena watching.
00:30:50.000 That's amazing.
00:30:50.000 Yeah, yeah, it is.
00:30:52.000 It's great that you guys in the UFC come up, and I think for a while there, it was mostly you guys were down in Las Vegas and a few other places, but then you decided to come up to Canada, and it's been good for you guys, it's been great for us too.
00:31:04.000 Well, Canada just has a love of all things manly.
00:31:08.000 Yes, we do have that, I think.
00:31:10.000 They're not embarrassed by it.
00:31:12.000 No.
00:31:12.000 Whereas there's a lot of embarrassment in America about things manly.
00:31:17.000 Or like a push it away or like, oh, that's a little too testosterone-y kind of a thing.
00:31:23.000 Yeah, I have a friend who was talking about a sitcom that he was working on.
00:31:27.000 And he was talking about, there's a woman that was one of the leads that was trying to introduce, she was also one of the writers, and she was trying to introduce these male characters that were like the type of guys that she likes.
00:31:40.000 And they were like, oh, he's too...
00:31:43.000 We're good to go.
00:32:05.000 And it was the writers themselves because they felt threatened by those types of men.
00:32:10.000 So they were rejecting those characters.
00:32:12.000 Girls don't like that. 1.00
00:32:13.000 Those guys are jerky. 0.99
00:32:15.000 They're like tweety guys who wear scarves and stuff like that. 0.98
00:32:17.000 She was getting angry.
00:32:18.000 She was like, this is what I like.
00:32:20.000 You're telling me that the type of guys I like, women don't like these guys.
00:32:24.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:32:25.000 And whether you like him or not, that's kind of like a, that's an element of our society, too.
00:32:30.000 Like, why purposely sort of ignore them and, oh no, that wouldn't screen test well, or we don't want to.
00:32:34.000 It's embarrassing to people.
00:32:36.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:32:36.000 I think, I was thinking, too, about before coming here, like, you, your career has sort of had, I think you must have run up against that a lot.
00:32:44.000 Because, like, I remember when Fear Factor came out, there was a sense, you know, there were these hyperbolic newspaper articles like, ah, society's collapsing, you know, it's Fear Factor, like, you know what I mean?
00:32:55.000 People are doing things that, like, why are we getting people to eat bugs or stuff?
00:32:59.000 And I thought...
00:32:59.000 I love that show, you know what I mean?
00:33:01.000 And then the UFC comes along and it's the same kind of like, what was one of your politicians had the human cockfight?
00:33:08.000 A bunch of them used that term.
00:33:09.000 Right, yeah.
00:33:10.000 And so you've been situated along that line, I think.
00:33:14.000 And so I'd be sensitized to it if I were you at this point. 0.97
00:33:17.000 It's like, come on, screw off.
00:33:18.000 Well, if I was doing things from a public relations standpoint, I've made nothing but poor choices.
00:33:23.000 Right.
00:33:23.000 If you looked at it that way.
00:33:24.000 Yeah.
00:33:25.000 When I was first starting to work for the UFC, it was in 1997, and the people that I was on, I was on news radio, the sitcom.
00:33:31.000 That's right, yeah.
00:33:31.000 People were talking to me like I was doing porn.
00:33:33.000 They're like, what the fuck? 1.00
00:33:34.000 What the fuck are you doing? 1.00
00:33:36.000 You're going to ruin your career. 1.00
00:33:37.000 Really?
00:33:37.000 You're involved in cage fighting?
00:33:39.000 Like, what's wrong with you?
00:33:40.000 And I was like, it's martial arts.
00:33:43.000 It takes place in a cage.
00:33:45.000 It could take place in a high school gymnasium.
00:33:47.000 Would that be okay with you?
00:33:47.000 Yeah, would that make it more sanitized for you?
00:33:49.000 If it was in a field, would that be alright?
00:33:52.000 What difference does it make where it takes place?
00:33:53.000 It's martial arts.
00:33:54.000 But the rejection of things manly...
00:33:58.000 I mean, it has its roots in...
00:34:00.000 Some pretty disgusting behavior.
00:34:01.000 You know, when you see like the Steubenville rape case and the jocks conspired along with people that worked at the school to hide. 1.00
00:34:11.000 To sort of, yeah, cover that shit up. 0.99
00:34:13.000 That kind of, you know, misogynistic supported thing. 1.00
00:34:18.000 Thinking the group think, you know, fuck these bitches, you know, all the men together. 1.00
00:34:24.000 But those are just weak humans. 1.00
00:34:26.000 Those are pathetic humans. 1.00
00:34:28.000 It has nothing to do with embracing masculinity. 1.00
00:34:30.000 Yeah, no, I completely agree.
00:34:32.000 But that's the thing.
00:34:33.000 It was like masculinity gets tied into all the reprehensible aspects of male behavior against women.
00:34:40.000 Not just a celebration of things that men love.
00:34:43.000 Men love certain things that don't harm other people.
00:34:47.000 Like, men love cars that are loud and fast.
00:34:51.000 Men love a lot of things. 0.84
00:34:53.000 Men love shooting guns. 0.87
00:34:54.000 It doesn't mean they want to kill people. 0.92
00:34:55.000 It's like, there's something fun about shooting a gun.
00:34:59.000 And if you bring that up and you say that, oh, I don't have guns.
00:35:02.000 I don't own guns.
00:35:03.000 I don't believe in guns.
00:35:05.000 They need to take away all the guns.
00:35:06.000 I mean, I've had these conversations with people, whenever there's a school shooting, they need to take away all the guns. 1.00
00:35:11.000 Maybe they need to stop giving people these fucking drugs that make them psychotic. 0.99
00:35:16.000 You ever think about that? 1.00
00:35:17.000 You're talking sort of the over-medication of some of these kids?
00:35:20.000 90% of all school shooters, 90 plus, Are either on SSRIs or are recovering from SSRIs.
00:35:28.000 They're in withdrawal from antidepressants.
00:35:30.000 And it doesn't necessarily mean that the antidepressants cause that.
00:35:33.000 But I do believe there's, without a doubt, an over-prescription of medication.
00:35:37.000 Without a doubt. 0.99
00:35:38.000 You go to a doctor, the doctor's not going to look at a holistic approach to your life and say, Hey, you know, maybe you were raised by shitty human beings. 0.98
00:35:46.000 Maybe you need counseling for a decade. 0.95
00:35:49.000 We'll just put this beta blocker and all the bad thoughts will be walled off.
00:35:53.000 Not only that, all your inhibitions are going to be lessened.
00:35:56.000 Your ability to understand the consequences of your actions will be lessened.
00:36:00.000 Your ability to be depressed and to feel terrible about bad actions has also been removed.
00:36:07.000 There's a lot of things that happen when you put people on drugs that change your neurochemistry.
00:36:12.000 Doesn't mean that those drugs are bad. 0.99
00:36:14.000 I get these fucking tweets from these people that can't understand a complex argument or a nuanced conversation. 0.99
00:36:20.000 I have friends personally that have benefited greatly from antidepressants. 1.00
00:36:26.000 It's not that I deny them or don't support them.
00:36:29.000 I think there's definitely a place for them. 0.56
00:36:30.000 But I think when you look at all these people that have killed mass groups of people and you find this one common denominator over and over and over again, To ignore that but concentrate entirely on the tool itself is ridiculous. 0.84
00:36:44.000 Most human beings are absolutely incapable of walking to a school and shooting a bunch of children. 0.93
00:36:49.000 Most human beings.
00:36:50.000 What is it about some human beings that are capable?
00:36:53.000 I don't know.
00:36:54.000 But that's not being discussed.
00:36:56.000 Gun control is being discussed.
00:36:58.000 The raising of children is not being discussed.
00:37:01.000 It's gun control that's being discussed. 0.91
00:37:03.000 I find that ridiculous.
00:37:04.000 I really do.
00:37:06.000 And I think that That sort of gets lumped in with this rejection of manliness, this support of anything that's anti-male, or this denial of these base male instincts that don't necessarily have to be harmful to other people,
00:37:25.000 like competition.
00:37:26.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:37:27.000 I mean, there's so much about...
00:37:28.000 I mean, my career is, in a way, you know, again, my early stuff was all about men doing men things, which some of it is silly and self-harming, but also it's like something that I think built into our genome we need to express in a certain way,
00:37:44.000 you know what I mean?
00:37:45.000 So, but I know...
00:37:47.000 That a certain segment of readers were turned off immediately in the same way that these TV writers were just like, no.
00:37:55.000 But they're just the wrong people for your stuff.
00:37:57.000 No, you need to find a receptive audience.
00:38:01.000 I think your career has been a lot of that.
00:38:03.000 It's about finding the right...
00:38:05.000 I think also for both of us, it's about making people realize that I'm not a meathead.
00:38:12.000 You're not a meathead.
00:38:13.000 You know what I mean?
00:38:14.000 But I feel like people think that.
00:38:16.000 They read this book and they assume that I am a meathead.
00:38:19.000 Right, you wrote a book called The Fighter.
00:38:21.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:38:22.000 You had amateur boxing matches.
00:38:24.000 Right, right.
00:38:24.000 And would be the same...
00:38:26.000 I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but I don't know if you've had the same experience as yourself.
00:38:30.000 And it's sort of like...
00:38:31.000 Um, you know, I wasn't raised that way.
00:38:33.000 I, I don't, I don't consider myself a typical, and whatever, if you're a jock, that's fine.
00:38:38.000 You know what I mean?
00:38:39.000 Uh, not, you know, you're a Steubenville type, you know, if you have that kind of jock mentality.
00:38:43.000 But that's not even a jock.
00:38:44.000 It's not, I wouldn't say that's a jock.
00:38:46.000 Yeah, it's like a...
00:38:46.000 What would you call that?
00:38:47.000 I'd say a bro, but I don't think so.
00:38:48.000 I think bros are more like... 1.00
00:38:49.000 It's a rapist. 1.00
00:38:50.000 Yeah, it's straight up a rapist. 1.00
00:38:52.000 You're a piece of shit. 1.00
00:38:52.000 You're a shitty human being. 1.00
00:38:54.000 And most likely you have a bad relationship with your mother or your sisters or someone in your family who just did a terrible job of expressing to you the responsibility of being the physically stronger sex. 1.00
00:39:06.000 And the one that...
00:39:08.000 Is the penetrator, not the penetratee.
00:39:11.000 This whole relationship between men and women, I think a huge part of it is how they're raised.
00:39:16.000 How human beings are raised and what kind of a relationship they have with their family.
00:39:19.000 I had a really good relationship with my mother.
00:39:22.000 I'm really lucky in that respect.
00:39:23.000 I've never had any hate towards women, but I have friends that genuinely don't like women. 1.00
00:39:30.000 And that came from their upbringing, either because their father, maybe they had a divorce or something, and the father was like, she's awful.
00:39:37.000 Bad moms. 1.00
00:39:38.000 Or bad moms, straight out. 0.99
00:39:39.000 Bad moms, bad relationships with women, and they just don't like women. 1.00
00:39:43.000 I mean, I don't have good friends that are like that, but I know people that will say, fucking cunts, they're all the same. 1.00
00:39:49.000 They'll say shit like that around you, and you're like... 1.00
00:39:51.000 Come on. 1.00
00:39:52.000 You're missing out.
00:39:53.000 There's a lot of great chicks out there. 1.00
00:39:54.000 Just like there's a lot of dudes that I would... 0.97
00:39:57.000 There's some people that if I was alone with them in the woods, I would seriously think about killing them if I get away with it.
00:40:03.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.99
00:40:05.000 Hypothetically, yeah.
00:40:06.000 If you were around...
00:40:07.000 Here's a perfect example. 1.00
00:40:08.000 If you were around that fucking... 1.00
00:40:11.000 Not Joe Paterno. 1.00
00:40:12.000 Who was the other guy? 0.94
00:40:13.000 The guy that raped the... 0.98
00:40:14.000 Sandusky. 0.99
00:40:14.000 Oh, Sandusky, right. 0.99
00:40:15.000 If I was around, if I was in the woods, and it was just me and Sandusky...
00:40:19.000 And there's sort of a grave, maybe just sitting there.
00:40:20.000 There's no one around, and I look to the left, and there's just miles and miles of woods. 1.00
00:40:25.000 Fuck! 1.00
00:40:25.000 Fuck yeah, I'd kill that guy. 1.00
00:40:27.000 Yeah! 1.00
00:40:28.000 If I knew he raped kids, 100% I'd kill him if I could get away with it. 1.00
00:40:33.000 Why? 0.99
00:40:34.000 Because I don't believe that all lives are created equal.
00:40:37.000 I think that there's a yin and a yang to the world.
00:40:41.000 There's good and bad.
00:40:42.000 There's positive and negative.
00:40:43.000 There's give and take.
00:40:45.000 And you gotta trim weeds. 0.99
00:40:47.000 You gotta shoot dogs that have rabies.
00:40:49.000 There's a lot of things that happen in this world. 0.92
00:40:52.000 That are uncomfortable, that people don't like, they're unfortunate, but that they need to be done. 0.99
00:40:57.000 And when you find some guy who likes to rape children, you should remove him from the earth. 0.99
00:41:02.000 This is a mess. 1.00
00:41:03.000 You can't clean this up.
00:41:04.000 No, and I feel like it's...
00:41:06.000 I don't know.
00:41:07.000 I'm probably getting out of my depth here in terms of my real understanding of it.
00:41:10.000 But I feel like...
00:41:12.000 It's such a built, like it's something deep in your DNA helix, in your genome, like you're not going to root it out.
00:41:17.000 You know what I mean?
00:41:17.000 The best you can do is hope that you don't, aren't in a situation or you're somehow away from the source of what your, you know, issue is basically.
00:41:28.000 But I mean, if you're out in society, I mean, of course, you're going to be sort of up against it.
00:41:32.000 I don't think you get cured from something like that.
00:41:34.000 I mean, I don't, again, I don't know for sure, but I feel like, yeah.
00:41:37.000 Yeah, well, I think there may be a time in the future where we can understand and get to the root of these behaviors and perhaps access whatever it is that's wrong in a person's mind that makes them either have a desire to victimize children or have the ability to victimize children and not feel remorse for it or be attracted to it.
00:41:58.000 Do you, as a writer, do you, because as a comic, I watch a lot of things that I don't agree with.
00:42:08.000 You mean other comedians doing things?
00:42:10.000 No, no, no, no, no.
00:42:12.000 I watch religious programs.
00:42:15.000 Ah, okay, yeah.
00:42:15.000 I watch conservative right-wing propaganda shows.
00:42:20.000 And just be seething and every muscle tensed when you're watching it sometimes?
00:42:24.000 No, no, no.
00:42:24.000 Oh, no, just easy.
00:42:24.000 I try to get empty when I do those things, because I don't want to get angry.
00:42:30.000 What I want to do is try to find the patterns in their thinking.
00:42:34.000 And you see a lot of commonality in these sort of groupthink things.
00:42:39.000 Mindsets, whether it's Republicans, or I see it in feminists a lot. 1.00
00:42:43.000 I see it in male feminists. 1.00
00:42:46.000 I see it in people, they choose sides, and then there's a massive amount of confirmation bias.
00:42:53.000 And you see it both ways.
00:42:55.000 But as a writer, do you like to study certain mindsets or certain people that are just completely alien to your way of thinking to try to...
00:43:06.000 Grab pieces of the way they interact.
00:43:09.000 Sort of jump into their head and see if you could trace a narrative through their eyes.
00:43:13.000 I have tried that.
00:43:15.000 I think that's...
00:43:16.000 You know, I know writers and I certainly know comedians who...
00:43:20.000 I mean, it's sort of like the rage-based comedian.
00:43:24.000 Like, you really want to sort of confront these things, you know, and really go on a good harangue about it.
00:43:30.000 And I think...
00:43:31.000 It's sometimes not even funny with a comedian, but it's really true and it's really honest and you're actually getting more of a social commentary at that point.
00:43:39.000 Like Hicks.
00:43:40.000 Yeah, exactly.
00:43:41.000 You're getting a really strong, distilled, powerful medicine.
00:43:45.000 And there's some writers who sort of work in this satirist vein, I guess, who sort of do the same thing over the length of a book.
00:43:52.000 Yeah.
00:43:53.000 So I've tried that.
00:43:55.000 I've never found as much success with it, at least not yet.
00:44:00.000 Because the same thing, of course, we have a strong conservative base.
00:44:06.000 Conservative radio always gets on my nerves.
00:44:09.000 It's funny because right now we have Rob Ford, our mayor in Toronto, who's doing all sorts of hilarious things.
00:44:15.000 He is in rehab now.
00:44:19.000 I think? 0.97
00:44:34.000 But he's also the mayor of our city and he's a bit of a goof and he's a bit of a bully I find as well. 0.93
00:44:41.000 But it's funny to listen to the conservative pundits because they've got to turn themselves into paroxysms and back twists to try and defend his behavior basically. 0.66
00:44:49.000 And it gets more and more difficult to kind of defend the behavior of a man who keeps doing more and more...
00:44:56.000 Interesting, kind of...
00:44:57.000 Who's trying to defend him?
00:44:59.000 Well...
00:44:59.000 Really?
00:45:00.000 Once you've planted your...
00:45:01.000 Well, conservatives, I feel like I am more liberal, so quite liberal.
00:45:05.000 So once...
00:45:06.000 I think once a conservative or a liberal, but once you plant your stick in the dirt, you just gotta keep...
00:45:10.000 You gotta keep holding onto that stick, even though the wind is blowing you, like, straight back.
00:45:15.000 Yeah.
00:45:15.000 And one of them was like, well, I mean, you know, he's getting videotaped all the time by...
00:45:20.000 You'd think he'd be hanging around, you know, I can't believe his friends are videotaping you.
00:45:24.000 It's like...
00:45:24.000 He's hanging around with drug dealers.
00:45:26.000 You can't really expect a drug dealer not to do something that may or may not profit them in some way.
00:45:32.000 So anyways, but you know, and of course, you know, the one talking head says that and the other one, yeah, that's true.
00:45:37.000 I never looked at it that way.
00:45:38.000 So then suddenly that becomes an arguable point that they can be like, yeah, he's getting victimized again.
00:45:43.000 That was the argument about Donald Sterling, the owner of the Clippers.
00:45:47.000 That was the argument.
00:45:49.000 Like, hey, the guy's getting illegally wiretapped.
00:45:53.000 You know, well, give him a break.
00:45:55.000 Yeah, that's right.
00:45:56.000 He didn't know.
00:45:57.000 He's just an old doddering old man, which, yeah, true enough. 1.00
00:45:59.000 I feel I heard some argument that he was actually asking her to tape him because he felt like his head was going to tapioca and he couldn't remember anything anymore.
00:46:06.000 So he's like, please tape me so that I remember all the things that I say.
00:46:10.000 Apparently that's the truth.
00:46:11.000 Yeah.
00:46:11.000 That it was actually part of her job.
00:46:13.000 So he wiretapped himself, basically.
00:46:14.000 Yeah, and her job was to tape their conversations so that he would remember what they talked about.
00:46:20.000 So there were certain issues that he had to clear up and certain things that he had to do.
00:46:24.000 She was apparently employed by him in some sort of a PR sense.
00:46:28.000 In some capacity, yeah, yeah.
00:46:29.000 Yeah.
00:46:30.000 So, it's funny because even discussing it, like, does this guy have a right to privacy?
00:46:35.000 People are like, I can't believe you're supporting him! 1.00
00:46:38.000 There's so many fucking morons out there that have the ability to comment on anything that gets discussed. 1.00
00:46:43.000 Like, you can't think of the guys thinking as reprehensible, but yet think, hey, why is it okay to just... 1.00
00:46:51.000 Listen to a private conversation that this guy's having because somebody recorded it and then fine him for that private conversation.
00:46:57.000 I don't think it is.
00:46:58.000 I don't think it's fair.
00:47:00.000 You're right.
00:47:00.000 I mean, I... These are one of, you know, you've heard this a lot of times, and of course you have to separate what he said and the reprehensible, clearly the long-standing, reprehensible nature of this man as he's, you know, sort of proven to be over like 20 years span.
00:47:14.000 And then of course the question is, and it's been asked already, why? 0.92
00:47:16.000 Why is he still in that position where everyone knows he was a racist dirtbag? 0.96
00:47:21.000 But no one was doing anything about it. 0.92
00:47:24.000 And I think at this point, the players basically pushed it.
00:47:26.000 They said, listen, if you don't get rid of this guy, we will not come out and play anymore.
00:47:31.000 And apparently it got to that point.
00:47:32.000 He also represents a very unsavory aspect of our culture.
00:47:36.000 Yeah, that's right.
00:47:37.000 And so it's important to take a stand and say, hey, this guy's got to go.
00:47:41.000 What I didn't get, the thing that puzzled me the most, is that they fined him $2.5 million for a conversation that he had in his house.
00:47:48.000 Yeah.
00:47:49.000 I don't see that standing up in court.
00:47:52.000 Yeah, and he is.
00:47:53.000 He's a litigious dude. 0.88
00:47:54.000 Oh, he's going to sue the fuck out of that. 0.91
00:47:55.000 Yeah, he is.
00:47:56.000 They're going to lose so much money.
00:47:58.000 They're going to lose millions of dollars because they tried to fine him $2.5 million to make a point.
00:48:03.000 They're going to lose so much money.
00:48:05.000 I wondered a conversation too, because now the value of that team is up in the air.
00:48:09.000 What is it worth?
00:48:10.000 I think it's going to be worth more if they make him sell it.
00:48:15.000 You know what I mean?
00:48:16.000 Because then it's almost like tabula rasa.
00:48:18.000 We can redo it.
00:48:19.000 It's like we're getting rid of this old troglodyte.
00:48:21.000 Who knows? 0.99
00:48:22.000 It might be like black ownership who comes in. 1.00
00:48:24.000 Magic Johnson.
00:48:25.000 Magic Johnson.
00:48:26.000 I think Oprah Winfrey was sort of in talks.
00:48:28.000 She wasn't.
00:48:28.000 Oh, she was?
00:48:29.000 That was all just nonsense?
00:48:30.000 Okay.
00:48:31.000 But yeah, Magic Johnson would be the...
00:48:33.000 Perfect.
00:48:33.000 Because he was one of the ones who was actually insulted deeply.
00:48:36.000 Plus he has HIV. It's even better. 0.95
00:48:38.000 Right.
00:48:39.000 Everything's good.
00:48:40.000 He loves Jesus.
00:48:42.000 Get him in there.
00:48:42.000 He's an ex-Laker.
00:48:44.000 Yeah, he's perfect.
00:48:45.000 Great basketball player.
00:48:46.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:48:47.000 And he was one of the ones that I think she was in trouble for taking photos with.
00:48:52.000 That's right.
00:48:52.000 And that's what Sterling brought it up.
00:48:54.000 He was like, do we really have to have you taking pictures with Magic Johnson? 1.00
00:48:58.000 Fucking shithead. 1.00
00:49:00.000 What a dumb shithead. 1.00
00:49:01.000 But it's an interesting... 1.00
00:49:02.000 And it's amazing how quick it blew up to me. 0.99
00:49:05.000 Like, I just saw it on some website and I thought, well, there's just an old dumb white guy saying old dumb white guy things. 0.99
00:49:11.000 But it was clearly much bigger than that. 0.98
00:49:13.000 Well, if it was something else, like say if he was...
00:49:17.000 Say if he was the president of a company, a big company, General Electric or something like that, and he had a little piece on the side, and he was like, hey, stop taking pictures with black eyes.
00:49:28.000 It wouldn't get nearly the response as someone who has benefited tremendously from black athletes. 0.62
00:49:33.000 That's right.
00:49:33.000 The amount of money that that guy has made directly because of the work of black athletes.
00:49:39.000 It's got that whole slave owner type quality to it.
00:49:44.000 And there were rumors that back a couple years ago he'd gone into the dressing room and all the basketball players have been in various stages of undress and he's like, I like seeing all this black... 1.00
00:49:55.000 Black flesh, you know what I mean? 0.98
00:49:56.000 Sort of a thing.
00:49:57.000 Well, he said to a woman.
00:49:58.000 He brought a woman backstage to the locker room. 1.00
00:50:00.000 Oh, is that how it was?
00:50:00.000 Yeah.
00:50:01.000 And he was saying, look at all these beautiful black bodies.
00:50:03.000 That's right.
00:50:03.000 That's the exact quote.
00:50:04.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:50:04.000 Who knows?
00:50:05.000 Who knows?
00:50:06.000 Yeah, I think things like that are going to spiral in all sorts of direction.
00:50:08.000 And you can quote things that he may or may not have actually said.
00:50:12.000 At a certain point, it's like, you've opened Pandora's box, my friend.
00:50:16.000 Well, he didn't even mean to. 1.00
00:50:18.000 It's just so dumb and old that he can't remember shit. 0.99
00:50:22.000 So Pandora's box sort of opened itself. 1.00
00:50:24.000 On its own, that's right.
00:50:26.000 Do you think, though, that as a writer, studying guys like that, do you actively do that? 1.00
00:50:32.000 Do you actively watch how a guy thinks and sort of absorb his stupid thinking?
00:50:39.000 I've done it more in magazine articles I've wrote, like profiles of people, but I've used that to move into my fictional work too. 0.97
00:50:46.000 So if it was a basketball player, say that you were following around, you would try to climb into their mindset?
00:50:52.000 Yeah, and shadow them really.
00:50:54.000 You physically shadow them and what is your day?
00:50:56.000 Can I follow you?
00:50:57.000 And of course that's up to the level of how much they're willing to have you...
00:51:12.000 Which guy is it?
00:51:24.000 But he was really...
00:51:26.000 His father...
00:51:26.000 It's a great story, man.
00:51:28.000 I find the best stories sometimes are where you don't quite make it.
00:51:31.000 You know what I mean?
00:51:32.000 Like, athletically, it's like you put your heart and your guts and your soul into it and you're just not quite good enough.
00:51:38.000 You know what I mean?
00:51:38.000 There's something about you.
00:51:39.000 You just can't quite get over the hump.
00:51:41.000 You know, I think I find those are the stories that are the most...
00:51:44.000 It hit my heart the strongest.
00:51:46.000 And his father is on the Calgary SWAT team now, but he had played forever in the junior leagues of hockey.
00:51:54.000 And he made it up for a cup of coffee with the Leafs for like two games.
00:51:57.000 But he played professional hockey for two games.
00:52:00.000 And his son was like an incredible wrestler.
00:52:03.000 Sort of had the classic sort of MMA pedigree.
00:52:06.000 And, uh, but he drove a, uh, like a sandwich truck.
00:52:10.000 Do you know those things?
00:52:10.000 They go around to work sites, you know, uh, like a catering truck.
00:52:14.000 And so I followed him for like three or four days on that job.
00:52:16.000 And, um, he actually said that he, he let people take things on credit, you know, and so people would build up like a hundred, couple hundred bucks before they paid it off finally.
00:52:25.000 And one guy, I guess like just...
00:52:28.000 You know, we went to a mechanic shop and he was like, is so-and-so here?
00:52:31.000 He needs to settle his bill.
00:52:32.000 He's like, no, he went up.
00:52:33.000 He's like a wildcatter now up in Fort McMurray, like 10 hours away.
00:52:36.000 He just bailed.
00:52:37.000 He just left in the middle of the night.
00:52:39.000 So Tony, you know, who has had a wife and a young kid, got in the car, went up and found him and got his money back, you know?
00:52:47.000 So, I mean...
00:52:48.000 This is the sort of mentality that this guy had.
00:52:50.000 So, and I think I got a pretty strong story out of that just by being able to stay with him long enough.
00:52:56.000 He was really nice to speak to me, talk to me, and you got him burrowed inside of his head.
00:53:00.000 And I think the strongest work comes from as close as you can get to those people, you know?
00:53:06.000 Yeah.
00:53:06.000 Isn't it fascinating that we have this deep, deep connection towards people that really are never going to realize their goals.
00:53:15.000 It's a painful...
00:53:16.000 I feel the same way myself, you know what I mean?
00:53:18.000 It's like I've always felt like the mountain goes up and up and up.
00:53:22.000 You're going to hit your point on it at some point and you've got to be happy with that spot where you are on the mountain whenever you reach that spot.
00:53:29.000 I think that's the biggest part in life really is just accepting your spot on the mountain wherever it happens to be.
00:53:33.000 Well, it's also the...
00:53:35.000 The real issue with putting all of your eggs in one basket in life and that basket being athletics.
00:53:42.000 Especially athletics.
00:53:43.000 Especially combat athletics. 0.95
00:53:45.000 The idea that you're going to have some sort of a long and successful, fruitful career by throwing your bones at another person, trying to separate themselves from their consciousness, that's quite ridiculous. 0.91
00:53:58.000 Yeah.
00:53:59.000 Because just the very act of doing it and preparing for that very act, the amount of damage that your body and your brain even endures is...
00:54:09.000 But we have this idea in our heads that a guy has to be an undefeated champion.
00:54:14.000 My son's going to be a champion someday.
00:54:16.000 Man, if you're really lucky, your son won't be a champion.
00:54:20.000 If you're really lucky, your son will learn the valuable lessons of martial arts as far as character development and as far as your ability to overcome what seem to be insurmountable obstacles.
00:54:31.000 But... 0.99
00:54:32.000 To become a champion, you have to be a crazy person. 0.96
00:54:35.000 Yeah. 0.99
00:54:35.000 You have to be a crazy person who's obsessed with nothing but that and that will take over your life. 0.99
00:54:40.000 Yeah.
00:54:40.000 And I feel like having worked obviously with people like that, you know, shadowed them and recognizing that mindset.
00:54:50.000 You know, and I find too like there's just some point at which Like, there's some gifts that are just bestowed by genetics or something.
00:54:58.000 And it doesn't matter how hard you work, you're not going to quite get to maybe that level that separates the real...
00:55:05.000 And you won't know that until you hit it.
00:55:07.000 You know what I mean?
00:55:08.000 You're not going to know that wall until you run into it.
00:55:10.000 And I feel like for some people, like I was talking to one guy, just a guy at the gym, and he said something more or less like the best that he ever felt in a fight was when he was up against someone he knew was better than him.
00:55:22.000 And he knew he was going to lose.
00:55:23.000 And if they fought a hundred times, he'd lose a hundred times.
00:55:26.000 But he, that guy, he made that guy see something about himself.
00:55:30.000 He got that close to him that the other guys sort of recognize I'm a frail.
00:55:34.000 I'm made out of the same crumbling stuff that he's made out of.
00:55:37.000 And so, you know, sort of pierced that Teflon armor that, that I think some fighters carry around with themselves.
00:55:42.000 And he's like, that's, that's all I could do.
00:55:44.000 That for me is the victory.
00:55:45.000 I still lost.
00:55:46.000 But I made that guy discover something about himself that he hadn't discovered up until that point because he'd never been tested to the point that I was able to test him.
00:55:55.000 And I thought, that's another part about just recognizing what you're able to do.
00:56:01.000 And it may not be beating him, but you find some other measure of success.
00:56:05.000 That's fascinating because to me, if you say that someone can get so close they could test someone, that means that they could beat them.
00:56:12.000 They just have to figure out what it is they did wrong and work harder.
00:56:17.000 That's where the madness lies.
00:56:19.000 Yeah, maybe that's it, isn't it?
00:56:20.000 The madness lies in the preparation.
00:56:22.000 The madness lies in the trying to...
00:56:24.000 What separates a champion from someone who is just very good?
00:56:29.000 From my personal experience involved in martial arts competition, there's a level that some people are just not willing to push themselves.
00:56:36.000 Is that it really?
00:56:37.000 Yeah, it's a big part of it.
00:56:38.000 And then outside of that, the other variables are genetics.
00:56:42.000 Some people have a different psychology. 0.99
00:56:46.000 What's really interesting is people that have been bullied, and especially people that have larger brothers that bullied them in the house their whole life, those are the scariest fuckers on the planet. 0.99
00:56:55.000 Really? 0.99
00:56:56.000 Yeah.
00:56:56.000 It's like GSP, I think, was bullied.
00:56:58.000 Sounds shocking now, but yeah, he was bullied.
00:57:01.000 Chris Weidman was bullied.
00:57:01.000 Oh, is that so?
00:57:02.000 John Jones has a good relationship with his brothers, but he has a giant brother who's way bigger than him.
00:57:07.000 His brother Arthur's a beast. 0.94
00:57:08.000 He's a pro football player, and he fucks John up all the time. 0.98
00:57:12.000 Whenever they wrestle today, he still fucks John up. 0.95
00:57:14.000 Really? 0.70
00:57:14.000 Yeah, he's huge. 0.70
00:57:15.000 So because of that, I think that John grew up with this just super athlete brother, and he ain't afraid of shit. 0.99
00:57:22.000 Doesn't seem like it, yeah. 1.00
00:57:24.000 Because his fucking brother's a monster! 1.00
00:57:26.000 And he was sort of imprinted on him at such a young age, too, you know? 1.00
00:57:29.000 I mean, I think that's it, too.
00:57:30.000 You get these things impressed on your flesh at a young age, and you don't forget those lessons.
00:57:35.000 Yeah, brothers are a big one, man.
00:57:37.000 And it's usually, for whatever reason, the younger brother that's the real beast.
00:57:40.000 Because the younger brother endures the beatings that the older brother gives him, and because of that he develops this sort of steely determination that's quite frightening.
00:57:48.000 Yeah, I could totally see that.
00:57:50.000 That totally makes sense, both on a physical level, but on an emotional kind of...
00:57:54.000 You know, you're getting that adamantium kind of mindset about things and just got to keep prevailing.
00:58:00.000 I've always thought too, like, because I do watch a lot of MMA and I love it both as a sport and boxing as well, but also like the psychological aspect of it really fascinates me and I've always felt like how...
00:58:12.000 Painful it must be to come up.
00:58:14.000 I always think about like Michael Jordan and who were, you know, we would think differently of Dominique Wilkins if Michael Jordan ever existed.
00:58:21.000 And I think we'd think differently of so many fighters if GSP hadn't existed or Silva or, you know, John Jones, these sort of long reigning sort of champions.
00:58:33.000 And you would know better having been through it, but there's, you know what I mean?
00:58:37.000 There's that next level who can't quite, you know, they have their one shot, they can't quite clear it.
00:58:42.000 And some are lucky to have another opportunity to sort of go back at it and can still make a good career for themselves.
00:58:49.000 I find that MMA, especially in the UFC right now, is there's some long-reigning champions, and that's what people love.
00:58:56.000 You know, they sort of love, but all the focus is on them, and then these people, the guys underneath who could be awesome were it not for a GSP. But that's the whole purpose of being a champion.
00:59:07.000 That's right.
00:59:07.000 To be dominant over other savages.
00:59:10.000 That's right.
00:59:10.000 I mean, that's the thing about being the second best guy who could have been a champion in any other era.
00:59:18.000 That's got to be so maddening.
00:59:20.000 Wouldn't it be?
00:59:20.000 Yeah.
00:59:21.000 Junior Dos Santos is a good example of that.
00:59:24.000 People always compare Junior Dos Santos.
00:59:25.000 Because Junior Dos Santos was the champion.
00:59:28.000 He knocked out Cain Velasquez.
00:59:30.000 That's right.
00:59:31.000 But it was at a time where Cain Velasquez was injured.
00:59:34.000 He tore a ligament in his knee. 0.98
00:59:35.000 His knee was all fucked up. 0.98
00:59:37.000 He didn't have good mobility. 0.99
00:59:38.000 And Junior caught him with a big punch.
00:59:40.000 Then they fought two more times and Cain destroyed him.
00:59:44.000 Yeah, it was not pretty.
00:59:45.000 Just beat him from pillar to post.
00:59:46.000 Probably took...
00:59:48.000 Years off of his life with those beatings.
00:59:50.000 I had friends who were martial artists and fighters and either former pro fighters or guys who had been involved in fighting their whole life who universally texted me and emailed me and said, dude, that fight took years off that guy's life.
01:00:03.000 They just felt it.
01:00:04.000 You can watch it through the TV screen.
01:00:06.000 Especially the second one.
01:00:07.000 The third one, rather.
01:00:10.000 The last one.
01:00:11.000 The second rematch.
01:00:13.000 Just an unbelievable beating that Kane put on him.
01:00:16.000 And that's sort of Kane's thing.
01:00:17.000 He doesn't knock you out.
01:00:19.000 He just mauls you and really just reduces you in some terrible way.
01:00:23.000 Well, he keeps a pace that's almost inhuman.
01:00:25.000 Yeah.
01:00:25.000 For a heavyweight?
01:00:26.000 For a heavyweight, yeah. 0.99
01:00:26.000 For a 240-pound man to keep up with him, good fucking luck. 0.99
01:00:30.000 Yeah. 0.98
01:00:30.000 It's probably not going to happen. 0.98
01:00:32.000 No.
01:00:32.000 And a lot of that's genetic.
01:00:33.000 Like, I talked to Bob Cook, who's his trainer.
01:00:35.000 He said, that guy could go a couple of months outside of training, like, get injured, be out for a couple months, then come back in and outwork everybody.
01:00:42.000 Really?
01:00:42.000 Just doesn't get out of shape.
01:00:45.000 Wow.
01:00:45.000 Mexicans are kind of known for that.
01:00:47.000 Yeah, there's some tough fight boxers, too.
01:00:50.000 It seems like a tough culture.
01:00:52.000 You know what I mean? 1.00
01:00:53.000 Fuck yeah. 1.00
01:00:53.000 Mexicans, I think, are some of the grittiest, toughest fighters of all time. 1.00
01:00:58.000 I totally agree. 0.95
01:00:59.000 MMA or boxing.
01:01:00.000 And their endurance, too.
01:01:02.000 Their stamina is just shocking.
01:01:03.000 They don't stop.
01:01:05.000 You're right.
01:01:06.000 They're sort of just like...
01:01:07.000 You're going to have to hit me with a house. 1.00
01:01:09.000 Like Julio Cesar Chavez. 0.61
01:01:10.000 Yeah.
01:01:10.000 Remember when that guy used to fight?
01:01:11.000 Yeah.
01:01:12.000 He would just ding, the bell would ring, and he'd just start moving forward, throwing a barrage of punches that will never end until you drop.
01:01:19.000 Yeah.
01:01:20.000 And he fought, like, didn't he have an enormous record in terms of, like, I thought, like, 100 fights or something?
01:01:24.000 More than that.
01:01:25.000 More than 100 fights.
01:01:26.000 He had 97 fights before he ever suffered a loss.
01:01:28.000 Yeah, that's how it was.
01:01:29.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:01:31.000 97-0.
01:01:32.000 And that's like four careers of some other fighters, you know, in terms of overall records.
01:01:36.000 Sure.
01:01:36.000 Yeah, yeah, so.
01:01:37.000 Yeah, that's, I mean, a lot of fighters today in this day and age don't fight nearly as many times as they used to back in the day.
01:01:44.000 No.
01:01:44.000 But like a guy like Floyd Mayweather, who's like 45-0, 46-0 I think now.
01:01:49.000 46-0 after the last one, yeah.
01:01:51.000 I mean, that's unbelievable.
01:01:52.000 Like, but 97-0?
01:01:54.000 I know.
01:01:55.000 That's so insane.
01:01:57.000 Just 97 fights, period.
01:01:59.000 And that's right before he hit a loss.
01:02:00.000 And then, I feel like, I could be wrong, but I feel the wheels fell off.
01:02:04.000 One of the quotes is, on a long enough timeline, any fighting stories usually can be a tragic one.
01:02:11.000 And I find that happens less in MMA. I feel like guys know when to retire better in MMA than in boxing.
01:02:16.000 I feel like people hang onto the rope a little too long in boxing.
01:02:18.000 I wish that was true.
01:02:19.000 I wish that was true, but I don't think it is.
01:02:21.000 No.
01:02:21.000 No, Chuck Liddell definitely didn't.
01:02:23.000 Oh, he didn't because I was almost going to mention Chuck Liddell because he did get rocked his last couple fights and that it's made some...
01:02:30.000 Yeah, well, not just that.
01:02:32.000 The only reason why he stopped fighting was Dana White.
01:02:34.000 Because Dana just said that's it.
01:02:35.000 Yeah, Dana's very close with him and said, I see what's going on here and maybe you don't because you're the fighter and you've got to stop.
01:02:43.000 The thing about fighters is they have this belief in themselves.
01:02:46.000 Yeah.
01:02:46.000 It's just...
01:02:47.000 It's never-ending and unflappable, especially the champions. 1.00
01:02:50.000 They always think, I know everybody's counting me out, but I'm going to figure out a way to beat this motherfucker. 0.99
01:02:54.000 And they go into that ring with that determination. 0.99
01:02:57.000 And that's what made them a champion in the first place.
01:02:59.000 But that's also what fails them.
01:03:03.000 When it comes down to objective thinking and being introspective about your abilities and how much you've diminished, it's that... 0.99
01:03:12.000 Sort of bulletproof belief in themselves that winds up fucking them over. 0.98
01:03:16.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.99
01:03:16.000 And I think it's also too, they're young, right? 0.99
01:03:20.000 I mean, comparatively, I know when my dad retired, it was like a trap door opened under his life in a way because he was like used to having this routine to his life and you look forward to it.
01:03:29.000 But I think, you know, the first week you're like, oh, this is great.
01:03:31.000 And then the second week it's like...
01:03:33.000 What the hell am I doing?
01:03:34.000 I feel like my...
01:03:35.000 And then if you're looking down the barrel of that when you're at 60, 65, well that's one thing.
01:03:40.000 When you're looking down the barrel of that when you're 32, 33, something like that, it's got to be a different...
01:03:44.000 This is what I was...
01:03:45.000 This is what I'm good at.
01:03:46.000 This is all I'm good at, I think some of them might think.
01:03:49.000 And then it's like, God, I've got a long existence ahead of me doing what?
01:03:53.000 What am I doing next?
01:03:54.000 And nothing is ever going to match the thrill that fighting...
01:03:57.000 No, we'll never feel that or I'll never feel something like that.
01:04:00.000 You know what I mean?
01:04:00.000 I feel like that must be...
01:04:02.000 I don't know.
01:04:03.000 You've talked to fighters.
01:04:04.000 Are they good at describing what that feeling is like?
01:04:08.000 Well, I think the only person that's ever going to truly understand what it's like to say, like, beat Jon Jones and enter into a world championship fight with the whole world watching, the cage door shuts and the Bruce buffer, it's time!
01:04:22.000 They're the only ones that'll ever understand that.
01:04:24.000 I will never understand it.
01:04:26.000 I've watched...
01:04:27.000 And I've done commentary on more than a thousand fights.
01:04:29.000 And you're right in the ring.
01:04:30.000 When the endorphins are still there. 0.99
01:04:32.000 I don't know what the fuck's going on. 0.98
01:04:34.000 I'm completely outside. 0.99
01:04:35.000 And I've competed.
01:04:36.000 I've kickboxed.
01:04:37.000 Of course, yeah.
01:04:37.000 I've fought probably a hundred Taekwondo matches.
01:04:39.000 Doesn't matter.
01:04:40.000 I just don't know what's going on when that's happening.
01:04:43.000 I just can't imagine.
01:04:44.000 I literally can't imagine.
01:04:46.000 Do you think it's a different level then?
01:04:47.000 Because I mean, it's a different level in some way in the crowd response and the idea of how many eyes are on you.
01:04:54.000 But I mean, when you step in, or even when I've done fighting, it's still you and another guy.
01:04:58.000 So I wonder how far removed is our experience from...
01:05:02.000 You know what I mean?
01:05:03.000 Pretty far.
01:05:03.000 Yeah, I assume it is, certainly in terms of, but I mean, I felt like I was amped up to the point where every one of my synapses was screaming.
01:05:10.000 I'm just not built to do that, you know?
01:05:13.000 Maybe they have, maybe there's a calmness.
01:05:15.000 I feel like sometimes you look and the top fighters are able to kind of establish a certain calmness that I've never really found in those situations in my life, whether it's a playground scuffle or, you know, an amateur boxing match.
01:05:28.000 Well, the calmness, a lot of it comes with the experience itself being something that you recognize and you've been there before and you know how to deal with it.
01:05:38.000 Whereas someone who has never... 0.99
01:05:39.000 Like, if you took a guy who has never competed at all before and you threw him in a UFC fight, they would fucking shit their pants. 0.99
01:05:46.000 Yeah. 0.98
01:05:46.000 Especially if they didn't know how to fight at all. 0.98
01:05:48.000 Yeah.
01:05:49.000 And there's so many things to deal with, it would be overwhelming.
01:05:51.000 They'd probably have a heart attack. 0.68
01:05:52.000 Yeah.
01:05:52.000 But if you take a guy like a Jon Jones, because we keep talking about him...
01:05:57.000 He trains his whole life in wrestling, so he's wrestled for many, many years, competed at a very high level in wrestling, then started competing in MMA, trains every day, constantly in the gym, constantly working out with these really high-level guys.
01:06:14.000 You have a comfort level with just the recognition of what this is.
01:06:18.000 You understand it, you get in there, you know what you can do, you're very aware of what you're capable of because you have literally pushed yourself to your limits in training.
01:06:27.000 And you get in there and you're much calmer than a person who's completely alien to the experience.
01:06:33.000 So I think for you, like, doing it a couple of times, like, you didn't have a chance to get used to it.
01:06:38.000 No, not at all.
01:06:39.000 But there's a lot of guys who do, who are probably similarly gifted, you know, or not gifted.
01:06:45.000 Yes, yeah.
01:06:45.000 Not gifted is the way.
01:06:46.000 But there's a lot of not gifted guys go very far, just through hard work and determination.
01:06:51.000 And just determination, and yeah, yeah.
01:06:52.000 What they don't ever do is beat the great ones.
01:06:55.000 No.
01:06:55.000 That's the difference.
01:06:57.000 The not gifted guys can have great careers.
01:07:00.000 They can get a lot out of the competition.
01:07:02.000 They can become coaches.
01:07:03.000 They can train fighters.
01:07:05.000 They can become commentators.
01:07:08.000 They can do a lot of things, but they can never figure out a way to beat the great ones.
01:07:12.000 No.
01:07:12.000 No.
01:07:13.000 I feel like that's, in my experience watching as well, there's that kind of...
01:07:18.000 That's a separation level.
01:07:19.000 It's as much as your heart and your talent.
01:07:22.000 And there is, you know, heart is something that is one of these ephemeral qualities that no one...
01:07:27.000 But I mean, there are fighters that you know that's what they have.
01:07:30.000 That's what's getting them through.
01:07:31.000 It's not necessarily their talent, it's their...
01:07:34.000 I think heart is a combination of a lot of things that are kind of impossible to quantify, but you can see it in different athletes.
01:07:41.000 It doesn't have to be a fighter.
01:07:42.000 That seems to be where it's most obvious to notice it, but there's lots of athletes that I like, and usually it's because they have some quality of heart that distinguishes them in my eyes, and they're not the best.
01:07:54.000 But they've taken their skills as far as they can go.
01:07:58.000 Well, that's why everybody loved Arturo Gotti and Mickey Ward.
01:08:01.000 Of course.
01:08:01.000 Of course.
01:08:01.000 That's a classic two heart guys going up against each other.
01:08:05.000 They would just never quit.
01:08:06.000 You could beat them up. 0.99
01:08:07.000 You could knock them out. 1.00
01:08:08.000 You could stop them.
01:08:09.000 But their will was never what faltered.
01:08:12.000 No.
01:08:12.000 No, absolutely.
01:08:13.000 And had they had more talent, who knows what their limit would have been necessarily.
01:08:19.000 Or had they have trained more intelligently or competed more intelligently.
01:08:23.000 I mean, a lot of that...
01:08:25.000 What is talent?
01:08:26.000 It's the approach that you take.
01:08:28.000 If you look at the way Arturo Gatti moved and punched, he was very talented.
01:08:32.000 Yeah, he was, wasn't he?
01:08:33.000 Most likely that he probably just wasn't trained correctly or to the best of his ability.
01:08:39.000 If you've got a guy like Emanuel Steward who gets ahold of a boxer from the time that he first starts, Yeah.
01:08:54.000 Yeah.
01:08:56.000 Yeah.
01:09:11.000 Yeah.
01:09:17.000 Yeah.
01:09:17.000 Yeah.
01:09:19.000 Yeah.
01:09:26.000 Yeah, I think that's...
01:09:27.000 And I feel like that's true.
01:09:29.000 Yeah, and also even mid-fight, you know, because Gaddy was someone who used to get himself drawn into firefights when he didn't need to, you know, and whether he's really listening to his trainer at that point or not, I don't know.
01:09:40.000 But I know for me, too, even the amateur things that I did, what I really took away from it and what I really enjoyed was the training part of it.
01:09:48.000 You know, I trained...
01:09:49.000 I was living in Iowa at the time, and...
01:09:52.000 There was a boxing club at the bottom of, like a really sort of, it was at the bottom of a Gold's Gym in Coralville, which is sort of like just outside of Iowa City.
01:10:01.000 And it was run by a coach and two girls, two female fighters, the Kleinfelter sisters. 1.00
01:10:09.000 And they were like 130, one of them was maybe 130, one of them was like 115. Tough as nails, fast, and you'd spar.
01:10:18.000 I knew I was going to have to get in this amateur boxing match.
01:10:21.000 And so I was like, well, you better not be easy on me, and I'm not going to be able to really punch a girl, I didn't think.
01:10:29.000 Ultimately, I wasn't able to.
01:10:31.000 But even if I wanted to punch them, I don't think I would have really been able to lay leather on them because they were fast and they were mean. 0.95
01:10:38.000 And even if I did touch them, they'd be like, you know, you punch like a softie. 1.00
01:10:43.000 Like, this is weak, weak-ass shit. 1.00
01:10:45.000 But what I really took away from it is really enjoying the... 1.00
01:10:49.000 The discipline, you know, with nutrition and with the road work.
01:10:53.000 I mean, I did all that stuff.
01:10:55.000 I loved doing that.
01:10:55.000 And I felt like that was the only thing that I could actually take into my own hands and that I had some sort of agency in.
01:11:02.000 You know what I mean?
01:11:03.000 I can run as hard and as far and I can hit the bag until my arms feel like noodles.
01:11:09.000 That's all that I can do.
01:11:10.000 And you can see a direct improvement of your skills.
01:11:13.000 Yes, but also there was a limit.
01:11:15.000 And the one thing that I noticed, and I've said it before, is like...
01:11:18.000 And I feel like other people have noticed this because I've gotten a lot of fights when I was young, but I don't think I ever won one.
01:11:24.000 And I feel like I must exude this kind of waft of something that like, I just am not a fighter.
01:11:30.000 But every time I've gotten in a fight, it's been more that someone is, I feel like is taking, trying to take advantage of me or has been picking on me for a long period of time.
01:11:38.000 And it's the only way that this is going to stop or been, or been picking on someone that I cared about.
01:11:44.000 And I always got the sense afterwards that the person who beat me up, basically, knew that.
01:11:51.000 They're like, I can draw Davidson into a fight, and he'll willingly go in.
01:11:57.000 He'll go into the bear trap, and then I'll just be able to beat him up.
01:12:01.000 And the only good thing about it, ultimately, is that the picking on stuff stopped.
01:12:05.000 You know what I mean?
01:12:06.000 But I had to take a beating in order to sort of affect that, you know?
01:12:11.000 Yeah, that's a weird psychological sort of a relationship between the bully and the person who gets picked on.
01:12:18.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:12:19.000 But I feel like, and I feel like the real true fighters wouldn't even do something like that.
01:12:23.000 They would recognize, well, you know, this guy.
01:12:25.000 Oh, for sure.
01:12:26.000 I'm not going to bother with this guy.
01:12:27.000 For the most part.
01:12:29.000 Yeah, I mean, I don't know. 0.91
01:12:31.000 There's a few fighters who like to beat the shit out of people. 0.84
01:12:33.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.93
01:12:35.000 I notice in fights sometimes, I feel like, that guy looks like he probably might have...
01:12:39.000 Would be happy to be beating up someone with far less skill.
01:12:41.000 He'd be taking as much delight in it as he is.
01:12:44.000 Usually they've been abused.
01:12:45.000 Is that so?
01:12:46.000 Yeah.
01:12:46.000 I believe that's a big part of a lot of what constitutes a bully is physical abuse.
01:12:53.000 You know, that they've been abused either at home or they've been abused by other kids and they're trying to lash out and get theirs now.
01:13:01.000 They've sort of taken on the role of the bully because they've been bullied so much.
01:13:05.000 That happens a lot.
01:13:06.000 I could see that.
01:13:07.000 I actually...
01:13:08.000 Here's a sort of a story of one of my worst beatings.
01:13:12.000 I was at the YMCA. Me and my brother were playing basketball.
01:13:16.000 I was probably like 16, 17, 18. That was my last year of high school, probably.
01:13:20.000 And these two guys come and say, let's play two-on-two.
01:13:23.000 So we did.
01:13:24.000 And back then, I probably weighed like 240. I was a big...
01:13:27.000 I'm a fat dude.
01:13:29.000 240 in high school?
01:13:31.000 Yeah, maybe 230. I was enormous, but it was not a healthy weight, obviously.
01:13:37.000 What do you weigh now?
01:13:40.000 175, 180, something like that.
01:13:41.000 Wow, that's crazy.
01:13:42.000 So that's partly the whole boxing stuff, and we do tree planting a lot up in Canada.
01:13:45.000 That's sort of like what you do at university.
01:13:47.000 You just go up to the woods and plant trees, and I shed a lot of weight that way during university.
01:13:53.000 So I was a big beast, and I sort of knew how to use my body, and the guy that I was playing against was maybe 160. Yeah.
01:14:00.000 So we're getting close to beating him, and I turn around, and I see the ball.
01:14:03.000 It's whipping right at my face.
01:14:05.000 He'd thrown it at me.
01:14:06.000 And I turn my head, and it sort of goes by the side of my head and just, you know, gives me a scalp burn, basically.
01:14:11.000 And then he's charging right at me, like, to get into a fight.
01:14:15.000 And there was no prior provocation?
01:14:19.000 No!
01:14:19.000 None at all!
01:14:19.000 That's the thing.
01:14:20.000 I mean, this guy...
01:14:21.000 Just a basketball game?
01:14:22.000 Just a basketball game.
01:14:23.000 And okay, it's in the Y. So I'm like, okay, well, we're not going to have a fight right in the middle of the Y. I think I'm going to be okay.
01:14:30.000 I mean, I didn't really want to get into a fight.
01:14:31.000 But again, this guy's throwing a basketball at me. 0.95
01:14:33.000 It's a pretty shitty move.
01:14:34.000 So anyways, this guy comes out. 0.94
01:14:36.000 He's got to be like 80 years old.
01:14:37.000 He's like one of those guys at the Y that was like a retired gym teacher.
01:14:41.000 And they sort of said, okay, Bill...
01:14:44.000 You can just hang out around here and keep order.
01:14:46.000 That'd be nice of you to do that.
01:14:48.000 So he comes out and he's got a whistle around, like an old P whistle around his neck. 0.80
01:14:51.000 And he says, take it outside.
01:14:54.000 I'm like, I don't, the last thing I want to do is take this outside.
01:14:58.000 But, and he says, that's it guys, you take this outside.
01:15:02.000 So I'm like, oh, I'm sort of like being shoehorned into going out to having a fight with this guy.
01:15:07.000 So I'm going down the hallway and my brother is massaging my shoulders because I guess he thinks that's what he should be doing.
01:15:14.000 You know, that's how little we know about fighting.
01:15:16.000 You know what I mean?
01:15:17.000 My brother's like, well, I guess I've seen this in Rocky.
01:15:19.000 I should keep him limber.
01:15:21.000 And, you know, he's like, you're going to be fine.
01:15:24.000 But I had a chance to look in his eyes.
01:15:26.000 He'd be like, you are. 1.00
01:15:27.000 You are fucked. 1.00
01:15:28.000 You know what I mean? 1.00
01:15:29.000 And I think I knew that too.
01:15:30.000 So we ended up outside.
01:15:31.000 It's winter in Canada.
01:15:33.000 And there's ice on the sidewalk.
01:15:37.000 And I face up in what I assume is somewhat of a fighting posture.
01:15:42.000 And he kicks me in the head. 0.62
01:15:44.000 It's the first thing he does. 0.97
01:15:45.000 Just like kicks me right in the head.
01:15:47.000 And I'm not even sure what the hell happened.
01:15:49.000 I'm still standing, you know, and then he does it again.
01:15:52.000 And then I'm like, oh God, this is not, this is not good.
01:15:55.000 So he had martial arts training, obviously.
01:15:57.000 Yeah, yeah, definitely.
01:15:58.000 And then, you know, there was a bike rack and I remember he like rang my head off of it and I'd get him in a, you know, sort of a headlock and...
01:16:07.000 And I remember being like face down and there's like ice melt on the street, you know, those blue crystals they put down, you know, and my face is pressed into it.
01:16:15.000 And thankfully, it goes on for a while.
01:16:17.000 Clearly I'm beat.
01:16:18.000 And he's like, are we had enough here?
01:16:20.000 I'm like, yeah, I mean, I've had enough.
01:16:22.000 That's enough.
01:16:23.000 So he goes back inside chuckling with his buddy.
01:16:26.000 I'm sitting out there on the street bleeding.
01:16:27.000 I don't even want to go back into the Y, you know what I mean?
01:16:30.000 I'm going to have the people inside going, what the hell happened?
01:16:32.000 Do you need help?
01:16:33.000 And I'm like, I just want to crawl into a hole and, you know, not see humanity for about a month.
01:16:39.000 So my brother goes inside, gets my clothes, we go.
01:16:42.000 I find out later, this guy, lacrosse is a big sport.
01:16:46.000 We're good to go.
01:17:02.000 We're good to go.
01:17:08.000 And then my buddy calls me up a couple years later.
01:17:10.000 He says, did you hear about so-and-so?
01:17:11.000 I said, no.
01:17:12.000 I was away at university at this point.
01:17:14.000 He's like, they went camping in the woods.
01:17:16.000 And him and his dad, and this word gets back to your idea of abuse.
01:17:20.000 He stabbed his dad 44 times.
01:17:23.000 Killed him. 0.82
01:17:24.000 Killed him in the woods and they caught him just walking down the street with the knife in his hand.
01:17:30.000 And, uh, and, you know, later on they interview his mom and his mom was like, yeah, he was, uh, you know, he basically would sit out on the porch saying that he, George Bush was going to come in Air Force One anytime, pick him up for some top secret mission.
01:17:42.000 So he clearly had some, some mental instabilities that didn't present themselves at the age at which at least they were maybe emerging, but I thought later...
01:17:50.000 Did his dad abuse him?
01:17:51.000 I mean, that part had never been into.
01:17:54.000 I can't really comment on that, but I mean...
01:17:59.000 I don't know, but I think, I feel like he stabbed the man 44 times.
01:18:03.000 It would have to be a really heated argument.
01:18:04.000 And if they had no prior sort of history with one another, I don't really know.
01:18:09.000 But first of all, that he stabbed him and then he stabbed him that many times. 1.00
01:18:13.000 Holy shit. 1.00
01:18:14.000 Yeah. 0.99
01:18:14.000 And I thought later, like, man, as bad as I got it, I mean, I could have got a lot worse. 0.99
01:18:20.000 You know what I mean?
01:18:21.000 At least he like let me off at the end.
01:18:23.000 He's like, all right.
01:18:23.000 Well, I always try to explain that to someone who gives people the finger in a car.
01:18:27.000 Like, you never know who you're giving the finger to.
01:18:29.000 Exactly.
01:18:29.000 My wife has a bad habit of honking the horn.
01:18:31.000 I'm like, baby, I love you, but don't do it. 0.99
01:18:35.000 You don't know who the hell's stepping out of that freaking car. 0.94
01:18:38.000 Not only that, you never know what state they're in. 0.99
01:18:41.000 They could be in the worst state of mind ever.
01:18:44.000 At the moment you lay on that horn, you could have caught them at the breaking point.
01:18:48.000 Yeah, and that's what puts them... 1.00
01:18:50.000 Yeah, you fucking people, especially in this day and age... 0.99
01:18:53.000 When you're dealing with cities and traffic and the unnatural stress of slamming 200 fucking million people together like this, they've done these studies on population density just with rats, and they've shown how bizarre rat behavior gets when you get too many rats in a contained environment, 0.99
01:19:12.000 and it mirrors human beings' behavior.
01:19:15.000 As far as human beings, when you have a small amount of them, everybody seems to get along fine.
01:19:22.000 But when you jam them together, you start getting all these mental illnesses. 0.58
01:19:25.000 Well, that's what they do with rats. 1.00
01:19:27.000 If you have a certain amount of rats and you jam them into a box, A certain amount of them will just sit in a corner and start nodding their heads up and down and back and forth, and it gets really weird.
01:19:38.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:19:39.000 I found the same thing.
01:19:40.000 I used to work at a place called Marineland in Niagara Falls, which is like a SeaWorld kind of an idea.
01:19:45.000 Yeah, we had a guy that worked at Marineland.
01:19:48.000 Oh, is that so?
01:19:49.000 Really?
01:19:49.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:19:50.000 He was involved in this fucking horrible situation with dolphins, and he had a... 1.00
01:19:58.000 What the fuck is his name? 1.00
01:19:59.000 Bill. 1.00
01:19:59.000 Phil DeMores. 1.00
01:20:00.000 Oh shit, you had him? 1.00
01:20:01.000 Phil DeMores. 1.00
01:20:01.000 I interviewed him for an article I did. 1.00
01:20:02.000 Phil DeMores.
01:20:03.000 Yeah, okay, of course.
01:20:04.000 Yeah, yeah, okay.
01:20:05.000 Yeah, and he was explaining to us how intelligent.
01:20:07.000 It was Smooshy the Walrus. 0.51
01:20:09.000 Exactly, the Walrus.
01:20:09.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:20:10.000 He was also explaining to us how intelligent these dolphins are, and the dolphins go on hunger strikes, they have to force feed them, and they take them away from their mothers, and they buy them from Russians. 0.98
01:20:19.000 Yeah.
01:20:20.000 Or really ruthless, the way they capture them.
01:20:23.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:20:24.000 I know it's rough.
01:20:26.000 It's rough stuff.
01:20:27.000 Yeah, so anyway, you got all that already from Phil, and Phil was an insider.
01:20:31.000 Phil was there after I was there, and I think things got...
01:20:35.000 I mean, I was never a trainer either, but some of the things that those guys saw, the animal control guys saw, was pretty rough.
01:20:42.000 But the same thing is, you have so many animals, and if you did the same to people, of course, there's going to be like...
01:20:49.000 Mania, disturbing, you know, depression, all sorts of stuff that we can sort of emote.
01:20:53.000 You know, animals can only sort of just do it through their behavior.
01:20:56.000 You get a sense of like, this is not right.
01:20:58.000 This rat is not in a good state.
01:21:00.000 Well, the zoo.
01:21:01.000 You ever go to the zoo and watch an animal just pace back and forth in their small little container?
01:21:05.000 And you're like, this is nuts.
01:21:07.000 I watched this bear once, and he would just walk to one area, turn around, walk to the other area, turn around, and go back and forth.
01:21:15.000 Like, that animal is going mad.
01:21:17.000 They're going mad.
01:21:19.000 They're...
01:21:19.000 Animals like bears, they roam over miles and miles of countryside.
01:21:25.000 And that's how their genes are sort of adopted.
01:21:28.000 They're adapted, rather.
01:21:30.000 Their whole being is adapted to this idea of nature, providing them with food.
01:21:36.000 They go out and forage for the food.
01:21:38.000 When they're just stuck in this box and the food comes sliding under the door in a tray every day, all their reward systems are being...
01:21:46.000 Screwed up.
01:21:46.000 Just ignored or contained in some strange sort of a way and madness.
01:21:52.000 No, no.
01:21:53.000 Exactly.
01:21:53.000 And they find other ways, you know, when you baffle all of those primal instincts.
01:21:58.000 And I think, you know, it's true.
01:22:00.000 You know, we have a son and will we take him to the Toronto Zoo?
01:22:02.000 I mean...
01:22:03.000 We might have to.
01:22:04.000 Where else can you see all of those creatures?
01:22:07.000 You can't just go out searching the forest until you find a bear.
01:22:11.000 I mean, you could.
01:22:12.000 But you do it with the understanding that no matter how nice the bear pen is or the gorilla enclosure, it can't do all the things that that gorilla...
01:22:21.000 You just have to hope that they have a mind that is a bit more...
01:22:25.000 Able to embrace their new situation.
01:22:27.000 And some animals maybe can, but other animals just, like, I ain't built for this.
01:22:31.000 Same with some men who are imprisoned.
01:22:33.000 Like, I'm not, you know, the cool hand Luke sort of a thing.
01:22:35.000 I'm not built for this.
01:22:37.000 Yeah, it ain't happening.
01:22:38.000 Yeah, I agree.
01:22:39.000 And I have children, and I take them to the zoo, but it is that feeling.
01:22:44.000 Like, I do it just because my kids, I want them to explore everything, see as many things as possible.
01:22:49.000 But there's part of me that feels like a big hypocrite, because I don't want to support containing these animals.
01:22:54.000 Yeah. 1.00
01:22:54.000 Fucking penguin and it's 90 degrees out in LA. Like, what's that fucking penguin thinking? 1.00
01:22:59.000 Penguin's gotta be like, what am I doing here? 1.00
01:23:01.000 How did I get here anyways?
01:23:03.000 Why is it so hot?
01:23:03.000 Lights went out and suddenly I'm, yeah, who's this guy in this blue suit feeding me fish?
01:23:08.000 Yeah.
01:23:09.000 Yeah.
01:23:09.000 And the fish are dead already?
01:23:10.000 Yeah. 1.00
01:23:11.000 Like, what the fuck? 0.99
01:23:11.000 Well, even getting them to learn to do that. 0.99
01:23:13.000 Like, I think a lot of animals just end up starving because they just won't learn to eat an animal that's not, you know, that they're normally used to catching in some way.
01:23:22.000 So you can't fake their enclosure.
01:23:24.000 They can't embrace that much of a change.
01:23:27.000 Well, also, the reality of zoo life is completely alien to the reality of an animal existing in an ecosphere or in an ecosystem.
01:23:38.000 So when an animal is in a zoo, that animal is separated from every other species, which never happens.
01:23:45.000 No, no, absolutely.
01:23:46.000 Just so bizarre.
01:23:48.000 And not only that, there's nothing trying to kill them so they don't learn anything.
01:23:51.000 No, no.
01:23:52.000 All of their...
01:24:03.000 Yeah.
01:24:04.000 Yeah.
01:24:17.000 But that's what keeps them sharp.
01:24:18.000 Exactly.
01:24:19.000 You know what I mean?
01:24:19.000 That's what gives them their lives purpose, really, even if it's just surviving.
01:24:22.000 Well, it makes sure that the good genes pass on. 1.00
01:24:25.000 And in the zoo, it's just dumb monkeys fucking each other. 1.00
01:24:30.000 No one learns anything. 1.00
01:24:31.000 They get free peanuts.
01:24:32.000 That's right.
01:24:34.000 That's what they're breeding. 0.99
01:24:35.000 It's the weirdest form of animal prison ever.
01:24:39.000 It's very strange.
01:24:41.000 No, yeah, I mean, I agree.
01:24:42.000 But again, you got kids.
01:24:44.000 I mean, you do all sorts of weird things for your kids. 0.99
01:24:47.000 I think sometimes zoos exist but for the benevolence of kids or the needs of kids so that parents feel like, well, shit, you're not going to see this any other way. 0.98
01:24:56.000 I love you. 0.96
01:24:57.000 I want you to see them.
01:24:58.000 I'll gloss over.
01:24:59.000 I'll say, oh, look at the happy monkeys.
01:25:01.000 Even though in some part of you knows these are not happy monkeys.
01:25:04.000 This is not natural either.
01:25:06.000 But you know you're not going to take them to Borneo either. 1.00
01:25:08.000 Yeah, fuck that. 1.00
01:25:08.000 And show them natural monkeys. 1.00
01:25:10.000 Yeah, exactly.
01:25:11.000 Monkeys will steal your kid. 1.00
01:25:12.000 They will eat your kid. 0.97
01:25:14.000 There's been stories of chimps stealing babies.
01:25:17.000 Oh, there was an awful article in Esquire where these two people People couldn't have kids.
01:25:24.000 So they get a chimp, you know, and the chimp, they raise the chimp like it's their kid. 0.97
01:25:30.000 And then they probably had the chimp for like 20 years. 0.99
01:25:32.000 One day the chimp goes nuts, tears her face off, basically. 1.00
01:25:37.000 Like chimps are incredibly strong, powerful creatures.
01:25:41.000 And, you know, basically, I mean, she survives, but just barely sort of a thing.
01:25:47.000 And you don't recognize those sort of things.
01:25:49.000 I think when I think of chimps, I think of that movie with Clint Eastwood, whatever, and orangutan. 0.97
01:25:54.000 And those are probably even tougher, you know?
01:25:56.000 I mean, they're bigger creatures, but...
01:25:58.000 They're less violent, though.
01:25:59.000 Are they?
01:26:00.000 They're more subdued sort of a thing? 0.99
01:26:01.000 Well, they'll still fuck you up. 0.99
01:26:02.000 Yeah! 0.99
01:26:03.000 Don't dot your I's and cross your T's.
01:26:05.000 Right.
01:26:05.000 But they don't actively seek out...
01:26:09.000 Fucking up other animals the way chimps do. 0.96
01:26:11.000 Chimps have an instinct to go out and kill things. 1.00
01:26:13.000 Is that so? 0.98
01:26:13.000 Sure, yeah. 0.98
01:26:15.000 Chimps are not herbivores.
01:26:17.000 A lot of people have this misconception of chimps.
01:26:20.000 I would.
01:26:20.000 I had that up until this very moment.
01:26:22.000 Chimps are predators.
01:26:22.000 They eat monkeys.
01:26:24.000 They eat monkeys alive.
01:26:25.000 Oh, Jesus.
01:26:26.000 Never seen that?
01:26:27.000 Never.
01:26:28.000 Dude, it's dark.
01:26:29.000 That would be dark, because that's like eating a little version of themselves, basically. 1.00
01:26:33.000 God damn. 0.99
01:26:34.000 Well, they cannibalize as well. 1.00
01:26:36.000 Oh, do they really?
01:26:36.000 Yes.
01:26:37.000 They murder other chimps, and they cannibalize other chimps.
01:26:40.000 They cannibalize chimp babies. 1.00
01:26:42.000 Chimps are the worst aspects of human beings, like in animal form, with intelligence. 1.00
01:26:49.000 Yeah.
01:26:49.000 But I think that is what makes people want to adopt them because it's the closest thing to us that's not us.
01:26:55.000 You know what I mean?
01:26:55.000 What's weird is that bonobos are close cousins and they don't exhibit any of that behavior.
01:27:00.000 But what they do is they fuck each other like crazy. 0.99
01:27:03.000 Oh, really? 1.00
01:27:04.000 Everybody fucks. 1.00
01:27:05.000 They fuck everybody. 1.00
01:27:06.000 The fathers fuck the daughters. 1.00
01:27:08.000 The brothers fuck their other brother. 1.00
01:27:12.000 They fuck their sons. 1.00
01:27:13.000 Everybody fucks. 1.00
01:27:14.000 Really, just like a big clan of, yeah, just sort of incest all over the place. 0.99
01:27:19.000 Well, so much so that it's kind of clever on their part.
01:27:22.000 They've avoided captivity because of it. 1.00
01:27:24.000 Because you can't have them in the zoo because they just fuck all the time. 1.00
01:27:27.000 Ah, that's right. 1.00
01:27:27.000 People are like, we can't show our kids these fucking apes. 1.00
01:27:31.000 See, we're going at it all the time. 1.00
01:27:32.000 Which is so weird.
01:27:34.000 It's so ironic that you can have these animals doing everything in the wild except breeding.
01:27:39.000 We can't tolerate that.
01:27:40.000 We can't show our children breeding.
01:27:42.000 Yeah, exactly.
01:27:43.000 Although, like, the pandas, they want that.
01:27:45.000 Or what is it?
01:27:46.000 There's one group that they're desperate to find them to have.
01:27:49.000 Pandas, they're trying to get them to breed. 0.86
01:27:51.000 The only thing that they do avoid is the mothers will not have sex with their sons. 0.95
01:27:56.000 That's the only one where it's verboten.
01:27:59.000 Yeah, the bonobos have that one rule. 0.84
01:28:00.000 For whatever reason, the mother does not want to have sex with her son. 0.76
01:28:03.000 And that's it. 0.89
01:28:04.000 But everything else is fair game.
01:28:05.000 Everything else is on the table.
01:28:07.000 And you won't ever see that in a zoo because they just are like, you guys just exist in the wild.
01:28:11.000 We're okay with our chimps and our gorillas.
01:28:13.000 It's how they resolve conflict. 1.00
01:28:15.000 By fucking. 1.00
01:28:17.000 So that's how they express dominance kind of an idea that way? 1.00
01:28:23.000 Or even like, we argued here, but let's fuck around here. 0.99
01:28:27.000 Everything's alright. 0.99
01:28:28.000 I don't know.
01:28:28.000 I mean, I would probably have to study it a lot more.
01:28:31.000 But they do do a lot of chimp-like things where they pick up branches and smack branches around. 1.00
01:28:36.000 They'll pick up a large branch and they drag it on the ground to show dominance.
01:28:40.000 Chimps do a lot of that. 0.99
01:28:41.000 They do a lot of posturing with picking up large things, shaking trees.
01:28:45.000 They'll shake things to show how strong they are.
01:28:47.000 But chimps will engage in some serious violence.
01:28:51.000 Not bonobos.
01:28:52.000 Not bonobos, yeah.
01:28:53.000 Well, maybe if you want to...
01:28:55.000 I mean, I guess if you were into adopting it, the one part of that story, like you understand, like you have kids, you know, I have kids.
01:29:02.000 I think if you don't have kids and you've tried to have kids, I think people might feel that there's a loss in their life and something that needs to be filled, you know, and often you fill it with an animal of, you get really into dog breeding or you have 17 cats or something like that.
01:29:15.000 These guys decided a chimp was the way to go. 1.00
01:29:17.000 Yeah.
01:29:17.000 I guess I would have thought totally innocently that, yeah, okay, a chimp, whatever, you dress it up in a tuxedo and do whatever.
01:29:25.000 It's a little weird, but I get why you're doing it.
01:29:28.000 I know it's a replacement for the fact that you can't have kids, but then when this kid goes feral on you, basically, and attacks you in a way that...
01:29:37.000 There's a documentary about people that keep scary animals.
01:29:41.000 It's called The Elephant in the Living Room.
01:29:43.000 And it's supposed to be really good.
01:29:45.000 I got 82% on Rotten Tomatoes.
01:29:47.000 I need to watch it.
01:29:48.000 But it's a documentary about the raising of exotic pets in homes and how many knuckleheads in America.
01:29:55.000 Wind up doing that.
01:29:56.000 There was this thing the other day, I was watching this piece on this guy who has a pet mountain lion.
01:30:02.000 Really?
01:30:03.000 He's bottle fed it since it was a baby.
01:30:05.000 And is he at least in sort of a remote area?
01:30:07.000 I don't know.
01:30:09.000 I didn't pay attention long enough, but he's got this cat, he's had it since it was a baby, and now it's a full grown 200 pound female cat.
01:30:17.000 Yeah.
01:30:17.000 Okay.
01:30:18.000 I hope that works out.
01:30:19.000 I think you are juggling dynamite right here, my friend.
01:30:22.000 It might not be.
01:30:23.000 I mean, I don't know.
01:30:25.000 Some animals are cool with it, as long as you feed them and you're sweet with them.
01:30:29.000 Yeah, yeah. 1.00
01:30:30.000 The bottom line is it's always going to have that instinct to chase shit. 0.99
01:30:33.000 If you roll a bowl of yarn in front of a... 1.00
01:30:36.000 Take a ball of yarn and toss it in front of a house cat. 1.00
01:30:38.000 They fucking dive on that shit. 1.00
01:30:40.000 Yeah, oh yeah, totally. 1.00
01:30:41.000 They can't help it.
01:30:41.000 No, no, exactly.
01:30:41.000 Or like a laser pointer on the wall.
01:30:43.000 Yeah, they're bananas.
01:30:45.000 You can't, that's their instinct, you know?
01:30:46.000 And we have one who comes home with all manner of like cats are, you can't beat cats for like sort of just like sadism.
01:30:53.000 Oh, they're worse.
01:30:54.000 They came home once, it was night, and I was like, what do you got there in your mouth?
01:30:57.000 And she opens her mouth, and it was a baby mouse alive.
01:31:00.000 She just cradled it in her mouth.
01:31:02.000 But I realized if I'd come five, she was just going to play with it until it either died of fright or...
01:31:08.000 Punctual.
01:31:08.000 Yeah, she chewed it up, basically.
01:31:10.000 So I think, like a dog, a dog just goes and gets what it wants, eats it.
01:31:14.000 Most animals do, but man, a house cat especially, because all their needs are covered.
01:31:17.000 So it's like, this is all just fun for me.
01:31:19.000 My cat threw up a mouse once.
01:31:21.000 Ugh! 0.97
01:31:22.000 He had eaten it and then just puked it in the living room.
01:31:26.000 Oh, that's rough.
01:31:27.000 She actually.
01:31:28.000 Yeah, ours are females too. 0.97
01:31:29.000 I had a male cat too, but it wasn't the male cat that did it, it was the female.
01:31:32.000 She just barfed it up. 1.00
01:31:35.000 Little mouse wrapped up in cat food, puke, hair, hairballs and shit. 1.00
01:31:41.000 I'm like, oh, you disgusting monster. 1.00
01:31:43.000 Yeah. 1.00
01:31:43.000 It's fucking weird, because they're looking at you like they're purring and everything, rubbing up against you like they're so sweet. 1.00
01:31:49.000 But you think, man, if I was an inch tall, you would make sport out of me, you would make mincemeat out of me, and you would have not a goddamn care in the world about that. 0.99
01:31:57.000 No, no remorse. 0.95
01:31:58.000 No, no remorse at all.
01:31:59.000 I enjoy reading, I just got into this last week, reading vegan forums on how to feed their cats.
01:32:11.000 And they almost all reluctantly have to admit that their cats need meat.
01:32:15.000 Right, right.
01:32:16.000 Because cats have very high protein requirements.
01:32:19.000 Much different than a human being's and much different even than a dog.
01:32:22.000 You can feed dogs like a certain amount of vegan food and keep them alive.
01:32:26.000 And do vegans do that?
01:32:27.000 Would they say this is a vegan household and that counts on our dogs and cats as well?
01:32:32.000 They do with their dogs.
01:32:33.000 Wow.
01:32:34.000 People get away with it with their dogs.
01:32:35.000 They don't get away with it with their cats.
01:32:36.000 Yeah.
01:32:37.000 Cats just...
01:32:37.000 They just wouldn't be healthy.
01:32:38.000 They're really unhealthy.
01:32:39.000 It'd be like mistreatment, animal mistreatment.
01:32:40.000 Cats like this all day.
01:32:44.000 I need some protein.
01:32:48.000 Mangy looking fur falling out.
01:32:49.000 No, he's fine.
01:32:50.000 He's just going through a stage.
01:32:52.000 Just reading the torment that these people have gone through before they make the decision to feed their cat meat.
01:32:58.000 Yeah, I know.
01:32:59.000 I can imagine.
01:33:00.000 I can only imagine, you know.
01:33:02.000 I had one...
01:33:03.000 I was trying to do an article on...
01:33:06.000 On pit bulls, which I thought would have been really interesting, because one thing I noticed in research was, like, people in different parts of this country breed pit bulls differently based on where they are from.
01:33:17.000 Like, Kentucky, Arkansas, they breed, like, a really lean...
01:33:20.000 It's almost like fighters, like a really lean, fast version of a dog, whereas in California...
01:33:26.000 Or, sorry, Florida and Miami area, they breed, like, really big...
01:33:30.000 Bulky, kind of.
01:33:31.000 That's sort of what the genes that they want to put together.
01:33:34.000 And yeah, for the purposes of fighting these creatures.
01:33:38.000 And I mean, I like pit bulls.
01:33:40.000 I've met, you know, nice pit bulls, you know.
01:33:44.000 But I do know, from what I've researched anyways, that they're like bred into...
01:33:48.000 They're built to be fighting creatures.
01:33:50.000 That's sort of what they were bred for.
01:33:52.000 And not sort of what, that's exactly what they were bred for.
01:33:55.000 And so that sort of thing is always in their DNA helix.
01:33:59.000 It's sort of sunk in there.
01:34:01.000 And, you know, you go onto these Pitbull forums and you experience, in the same way with V, like a very strong emotional kind of like, you don't understand, you don't get it.
01:34:09.000 And I wasn't even coming from a perspective of like intolerance or hatred.
01:34:13.000 I was just coming from a perspective of I just would like to talk about it.
01:34:16.000 Where do you go to a Pitbull fighting forum?
01:34:19.000 I wasn't fighting.
01:34:19.000 This was what they do with this one was they, sort of like tractor pulls.
01:34:24.000 For dogs.
01:34:25.000 So they hook them up to sledges and they see how many bricks they can carry.
01:34:29.000 And that's sort of like, I mean, I'd much rather that, right?
01:34:32.000 Just like strength events, basically, for these dogs.
01:34:35.000 But I sort of had the temerity, I guess, to say...
01:34:40.000 I can see why you're doing this.
01:34:42.000 You're sort of doing this because these dogs have these instincts and it's better to have them pulling a sledge than fighting one another or fighting other dogs.
01:34:51.000 And you're just sort of assaulted by these people who are like, you don't get it at all.
01:34:55.000 These are the nicest creatures ever.
01:34:57.000 And I wasn't even coming from saying they're not nice.
01:34:59.000 You know, I, I, again, I feel like a lot of it with animal ownership is the owner.
01:35:04.000 It's really not the dog always, you know, a dog when it's born can go any number of different ways.
01:35:09.000 But when you see a pit bull owned by a guy who's driving around like a jacked up pickup truck and his dog's got like a spiked collar on and he's carrying around by a length of, you know, chain, you're like, that dog might potentially have been raised with a certain higher, you You know, the aggression might have been brought out of them more than this dog that had grown up with a family with three kids in it,
01:35:29.000 you know?
01:35:30.000 Yeah, they can be good pets, but they're always dangerous around other dogs.
01:35:33.000 Always.
01:35:34.000 Almost always.
01:35:35.000 Yeah.
01:35:35.000 It's very rare that you get a pit bull that doesn't have animal aggression.
01:35:38.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:35:39.000 Just thousands of years of genetics.
01:35:41.000 Yeah.
01:35:41.000 They've raised them to be aggressive and to fight other dogs.
01:35:44.000 I love pit bulls as pets, but I won't have them just because it's a drag.
01:35:49.000 Like, your friend brings their dog over, and your dogs don't play.
01:35:53.000 They go to war. 1.00
01:35:54.000 You know, it's just fucked. 1.00
01:35:55.000 Exactly. 1.00
01:35:56.000 If it's two pit bulls, it's one thing.
01:35:57.000 But if your friend brings over his black lab, it ain't a fight.
01:36:01.000 Yeah, it's not a fight.
01:36:03.000 And I went into the SPCA, and they just busted a ring, and they had like 40 fighting dogs.
01:36:07.000 And they were so nice around the SPCA workers, but they ended up having to destroy most of them, or maybe all of them even, because...
01:36:16.000 It is.
01:36:17.000 It's like having a stick of dynamite with a fuse of indeterminate link that could blow up at any time.
01:36:23.000 And they just felt like you had been bred to this sort of utility.
01:36:26.000 And this is what you're good for.
01:36:28.000 And it's not your fault.
01:36:29.000 But you're not safe out in general population anymore.
01:36:32.000 They also, if they're not trained properly, can be very dangerous around children because they don't recognize children as adults.
01:36:38.000 They'll acquiesce to an adult's demands and requests.
01:36:42.000 They look at adults as being the ones that are in control.
01:36:45.000 They don't look at children along the same lines.
01:36:48.000 They see something their height and they just attack it. 0.99
01:36:50.000 It's fucking really dangerous. 0.98
01:36:52.000 It is. 0.99
01:36:52.000 It is. 0.99
01:36:53.000 And I mean, again, there's going to be people listening to this who are Pitbull fanciers and they're going to...
01:36:57.000 I've had a bunch of them.
01:36:58.000 Have you?
01:36:58.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:36:59.000 Who have had words about this?
01:37:02.000 No, I've had pit bulls.
01:37:03.000 Oh, you've had pit bulls yourself?
01:37:05.000 Oh, okay, okay.
01:37:06.000 I came home once and my dog had killed my dog in the living room.
01:37:09.000 You're kidding.
01:37:09.000 No, they went to war when I was gone.
01:37:11.000 Two pit bulls? 0.98
01:37:12.000 Yeah.
01:37:12.000 Jesus.
01:37:13.000 Yeah, believe me, man.
01:37:14.000 I love them as animals.
01:37:16.000 I will never have them as pets.
01:37:17.000 Not anymore, yeah.
01:37:18.000 You've got kids now too, of course.
01:37:20.000 Even if I didn't have kids, I just would never deal with it.
01:37:22.000 Yeah, they would get out and attack the neighbor's dog or something.
01:37:25.000 That happened to my dog's dad.
01:37:28.000 Got out of his yard, crawled into the neighbor's yard, attacked the neighbor's dog, and the animal control guys came over and killed it. 1.00
01:37:34.000 It's just, it's fucked. 1.00
01:37:35.000 It's like, first of all, it's fucked for the neighbor. 1.00
01:37:38.000 You know, the dog's barking, like dogs bark at each other, and they're thinking, you know, hey, I'm just talking shit. 1.00
01:37:42.000 Yeah, whatever, yeah, yeah. 0.99
01:37:43.000 And the dog's like, oh, for real?
01:37:45.000 We're going to fight to the death?
01:37:46.000 Like, no, we're not fighting to the death. 1.00
01:37:48.000 What the fuck are you talking about, man? 0.99
01:37:48.000 It's like, I'm already in your yard. 0.99
01:37:49.000 It is to the death.
01:37:50.000 That's the only way I know.
01:37:51.000 You with the guy in the basketball court.
01:37:53.000 Yeah, exactly.
01:37:54.000 Very similar. 0.97
01:37:54.000 You realize you're like, holy shit, I'm up against a different breed of humanity right now. 0.97
01:37:58.000 Yeah, the guy's kicking me in the head out of nowhere, and, you know, you're just trying to play basketball, and you're... 0.99
01:38:02.000 Brothers rubbing your shoulders. 1.00
01:38:03.000 Neither one of you know what the fuck you're doing. 1.00
01:38:05.000 No, we're totally neophytes. 0.99
01:38:06.000 And there was something, you know, this is probably way too like writerly, but there is something about the eyes of a guy like that.
01:38:13.000 You're just like, oh, I'm, you know, you know, you're done before you're done.
01:38:18.000 I've met hundreds of those dudes.
01:38:20.000 Yeah.
01:38:21.000 There's just something clock working around in their eyes.
01:38:23.000 Like, and you're just like, oh no, no, no, I'm not, I'm not built to this standard.
01:38:27.000 This is not going to work out too well for me. 0.97
01:38:29.000 Yeah, there's guys that enjoy beating the fuck out of people. 0.98
01:38:31.000 Like I said, a lot of them have had the fuck beaten out of them and it becomes... 0.99
01:38:35.000 And that's one of the things that they say that's the most horrific thing about sexual abuse is that a lot of the abused become abusers when they get older. 0.99
01:38:44.000 Yeah, exactly.
01:38:45.000 It's sort of like a repetitive of the son re-expresses the sins of the father.
01:38:49.000 So dark.
01:38:50.000 It's such a weird thing.
01:38:51.000 It makes you realize, too, just how fortunate.
01:38:54.000 Like, again, I know you spoke about your mom and you have a good relationship with your mom.
01:38:58.000 A good relationship with your father as well?
01:39:00.000 No, no.
01:39:01.000 Terrible.
01:39:01.000 I don't know him.
01:39:03.000 He was a horrible guy.
01:39:05.000 But my experience up until I was five years old was just him being really violent and scary.
01:39:11.000 To both you and your mother?
01:39:12.000 Mostly to my mother.
01:39:14.000 Not really to me, but enough so that it's just a scary thing to watch.
01:39:18.000 Yeah.
01:39:19.000 Well, so you know, I mean, I was very fortunate.
01:39:21.000 You realize how luck is based on so many things that just who your parents are, where you're born in the world.
01:39:28.000 And yeah, I've been very fortunate that way, but I know friends who have had, you know, different situations.
01:39:36.000 So, but anyways, yeah.
01:39:37.000 Yeah.
01:39:38.000 I mean, it's just, you get your hand in life.
01:39:43.000 You do with it what you can, but some people's hand is just unmanageable.
01:39:48.000 And that is just the reality of being a human being.
01:39:51.000 There are certain people that are just abused to the point of no return before they ever get a chance to try to sort their life out.
01:39:57.000 I wouldn't even begin to know how to manage that.
01:40:00.000 I wouldn't know what to do. 0.99
01:40:02.000 I know people that have adopted abused kids, and they've had the kids since the kid was three, and the kid's now in kindergarten, and fucked. 1.00
01:40:13.000 The kid's fucked. 1.00
01:40:14.000 No. 1.00
01:40:14.000 And my wife is a child services social worker, which I mean, it's tough. 1.00
01:40:20.000 It's tough.
01:40:21.000 And she told me this one story.
01:40:23.000 I can repeat it.
01:40:26.000 And she goes over with this other, with a cop actually, to apprehend these kids. 0.95
01:40:31.000 Opens the door, dirtbag father answers, my kids aren't here.
01:40:35.000 Kids haven't been here for days.
01:40:37.000 She's like, well, we have reports that your wife said that They are here because they're certainly not with your ex.
01:40:44.000 And, you know, basically they had a warrant.
01:40:46.000 They got inside.
01:40:48.000 Room's empty.
01:40:49.000 Apartments empty, as far as they could tell.
01:40:51.000 Closets open.
01:40:52.000 Closets open ajar.
01:40:53.000 So they open it up.
01:40:54.000 Two kids in there, in the closet.
01:40:56.000 And the one thing that my wife noticed was that the wallpaper, I don't know who wallpaper is inside of the closet, but whatever, it was ripped in rags.
01:41:04.000 And the kids had been eating it because they had been in there for so long that, uh, I think?
01:41:37.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.99
01:41:51.000 You know, you read about shit like that, and this guy goes on this horrific cycle of childhood abuse and becomes this criminal, and he winds up meeting this woman and falling in love and actually having a family, but still keeps fucking up and can't figure out a way to stop. 0.98
01:42:09.000 And you hear it from the woman, like the woman who married him, her point of view of, like, what could he do? 0.99
01:42:15.000 The guy grew up, like, in this horrific state, and he's broken.
01:42:19.000 He's a broken man. 1.00
01:42:21.000 It's fucked. 1.00
01:42:22.000 Yeah, it's like before he even had a chance, really, to make his own decision about some of these things. 1.00
01:42:29.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:42:30.000 I know, I don't mean to be a downer about any of this.
01:42:33.000 Yeah, yeah, it is.
01:42:33.000 As a writer, what I was going to ask earlier about watching things that you, you know, watching humans that you don't agree with or watching things...
01:42:44.000 You're studying human behavior.
01:42:48.000 When you do that, do you try to put yourself in the mind of the abused or the mind of the abuser?
01:42:55.000 Like, do you try to put yourself into these people's heads to try to see what was...
01:42:59.000 Like this guy who, you know, they found him and, you know, he's saying like, no, my kids aren't here.
01:43:04.000 And then they find the kids in the closet.
01:43:06.000 Do you try to put yourself in that guy's mind?
01:43:08.000 No, I mean, in that case, I put myself in the mind of the social worker.
01:43:12.000 Because, you know, it was easier for me to put myself in the mind of my wife rather than put myself in the mind of someone like that.
01:43:20.000 You know what I mean?
01:43:20.000 But even in the troupe, there's a character, Shelley, who is...
01:43:24.000 You know, has some very serious things wrong with him.
01:43:28.000 And so, yeah, I think part of it is trying to put yourself as closely into that mindset as you can while recognizing that you can never quite bridge that gap.
01:43:40.000 You know what I mean?
01:43:41.000 Because...
01:43:43.000 I mean, that's just a leap that I can't quite make, you know?
01:43:45.000 So you just have to hope that you're getting close enough that the reader is...
01:43:50.000 I've always said as a writer, you just need to be one step ahead of your reader.
01:43:54.000 It means you have to have done that little bit more research or just spent more time thinking about these things that a reader hopefully is going to read really quickly and it's going to be like, okay, okay.
01:44:02.000 It's not...
01:44:02.000 Nothing is really sticking out that is enough that's going to make them sort of check up, which all people do in a book or a movie.
01:44:08.000 They're like, okay, you've just...
01:44:10.000 This is too far.
01:44:12.000 Suddenly you've sort of crossed some sort of boundary that I'm no longer quite with you in the way that I was before.
01:44:17.000 And you never know what it is.
01:44:19.000 I was having dinner yesterday at the hotel bar and I ended up next to this guy talking to him and he was like a big Tom Clancy reader.
01:44:29.000 And I said, oh, I've had people, like, I had a guy get in touch with me once, because I wrote some sort of book that had some military stuff in it, and he sort of said, well, you know, not to be a nitpick or anything, but the clip capacity of an M16 is actually 16 rounds and not 17,
01:44:44.000 as you said.
01:44:45.000 And I'm like, I get it.
01:44:46.000 I mean, I get it.
01:44:47.000 I get that's wrong.
01:44:48.000 That's a mistake.
01:44:49.000 But I think probably what I'm trying to do is not really having...
01:44:55.000 It'd be great if I could have caught that and it was more scrupulous to fact.
01:44:58.000 But really, you're trying to weave a narrative in fiction.
01:45:01.000 But some readers, that's what they want.
01:45:03.000 What takes them out of it if you don't get the facts right?
01:45:05.000 It does, exactly.
01:45:05.000 If you don't get the facts right, if you're doing something about medical stuff and you haven't been scrupulous about it, then yeah, then you're going to get...
01:45:15.000 But I mean, the guy mentioned, he's like, that's why I can't read Stephen King, because he gets apparently too many things wrong.
01:45:20.000 And I'm like...
01:45:21.000 I am so deep into most Stephen King narratives that I don't...
01:45:25.000 I wonder what he gets wrong.
01:45:25.000 I wonder that too.
01:45:26.000 I sort of asked him and he wasn't able to say anything.
01:45:30.000 It was just a generalized sentiment that now he gets things wrong. 0.99
01:45:32.000 He might just be a dickhead. 0.99
01:45:34.000 He might have been. 0.99
01:45:36.000 He was a defense contractor. 1.00
01:45:39.000 He sounds like a dickhead. 1.00
01:45:41.000 If he can't tell you the exact things that Stephen King got wrong, like any particular examples, he's got to be a dickhead. 1.00
01:45:47.000 Yeah. 0.96
01:45:48.000 And sometimes you just find yourself faced up against someone.
01:45:50.000 He said something like, well, you know, fracking.
01:45:53.000 You know fracking?
01:45:54.000 Sure.
01:45:54.000 And he's like, well, I've done research and there's absolutely not a damn thing wrong with fracking and it's a myth, just like global warming is a myth.
01:46:02.000 And I was like, okay, I think we're probably on different sides of this and I'm not going to get into an argument with you about it, but...
01:46:08.000 That's where you just tune out of a conversation.
01:46:10.000 You're just like, okay, I'm out of this right now.
01:46:12.000 The dangers of fracking are not a myth.
01:46:14.000 No!
01:46:15.000 I mean, people light up their tap water.
01:46:17.000 I don't know if you've seen that.
01:46:18.000 People have been able to do that.
01:46:20.000 I've looked pretty deeply into it.
01:46:21.000 People have been able to light up their tap water long before there was fracking.
01:46:25.000 It is possible that well water is getting contaminated.
01:46:29.000 But the reality of contaminated well water is directly related to fracking is undeniable.
01:46:35.000 Yeah, because they're blowing out the earth and then it's seeping through into the well.
01:46:40.000 And they're getting better at fracking.
01:46:41.000 They're figuring out a way to do it that's more efficient.
01:46:44.000 But the reality is, you know, you've got to break some eggs to make an omelet. 1.00
01:46:47.000 These guys don't give a fuck. 0.99
01:46:49.000 They're trying to get natural resources out of the ground. 0.99
01:46:51.000 And they're not trying to not pollute.
01:46:53.000 They're just doing their best to confirm...
01:46:56.000 To conform to whatever regulations that get established that allow them to make money. 0.94
01:47:01.000 And those regulations are directly influenced by the very companies that make fucking trillions of dollars. 0.93
01:47:09.000 They own the politicians. 0.98
01:47:10.000 They buy all the regulations.
01:47:13.000 They make sure that everything is in place so that they can make money.
01:47:16.000 Totally.
01:47:16.000 I mean, there's definitely some damage that fracking has done.
01:47:20.000 The question becomes, is it okay?
01:47:22.000 Yeah.
01:47:23.000 Is it okay that this damage is done because there's a plus side?
01:47:26.000 People are employed.
01:47:27.000 Yeah.
01:47:28.000 There's a lot of natural gases and a lot of natural resources that we can harvest.
01:47:32.000 I don't know.
01:47:33.000 That's a different question.
01:47:34.000 Yeah. 1.00
01:47:35.000 But the idea that it's a myth and there's nothing wrong with fracking, that guy's a dick. 1.00
01:47:41.000 Those fucking right wing chatterboxes. 1.00
01:47:43.000 Yeah. 1.00
01:47:44.000 Yeah.
01:47:45.000 And it just come right out with it too.
01:47:46.000 It's been like two minutes of us talking.
01:47:48.000 I'm like, well, now suddenly I'm not getting into this with you. 1.00
01:47:51.000 He's an idiot. 1.00
01:47:51.000 Yeah. 1.00
01:47:52.000 He's an idiot. 1.00
01:47:52.000 And the idea that global warming is a myth too. 1.00
01:47:54.000 He's an idiot. 1.00
01:47:55.000 Yeah. 1.00
01:47:56.000 I feel like, come on.
01:47:57.000 It's pretty well established.
01:47:58.000 And whether or not it's human influenced, that's a debate that most scientists almost, I think it's some insane number.
01:48:07.000 It's like 99% now.
01:48:08.000 Think that it's human influenced. 1.00
01:48:10.000 And since he's not a fucking scientist, maybe he should shut his dirty hole. 1.00
01:48:16.000 Yeah, and I feel, I felt almost like a, fuck, I hate to say it, Joe, but like a bit of a fraud that I didn't go up against him, you know? 1.00
01:48:22.000 I would have walked away. 0.97
01:48:24.000 Yeah, you can't fight every battle, but there's a sense of like, because that's the conservative thing, is like to come right at you, and I feel like, well, fuck, if I don't come back and say something, I've sort of just like let him believe that his point is valid from my perspective. 0.96
01:48:36.000 You're a Canadian, you're a liberal, you wear glasses. 0.96
01:48:39.000 I know. 1.00
01:48:39.000 He fucking hates you already. 1.00
01:48:40.000 It was amazing you even spoke to me in the first place. 1.00
01:48:43.000 He only spoke to you to correct you. 1.00
01:48:45.000 He wanted to correct you and Stephen King and these fucking pussies that are scared of fracking. 1.00
01:48:50.000 You're worried about global warming. 1.00
01:48:52.000 I'm going to buy land up in your country.
01:48:56.000 Meanwhile, they don't understand that global warming, it changes both the cold and the warm.
01:49:02.000 The cold gets colder, the warm gets warmer.
01:49:03.000 Yeah, that's one of the big arguments is like, well, look at how cold it is now.
01:49:08.000 We had a hell of a winter.
01:49:09.000 I don't understand.
01:49:10.000 It's the fluctuations that are the things you need to be looking at.
01:49:14.000 But whatever, it's a worthless sort of thing to get into, especially with this guy.
01:49:18.000 I had to be like...
01:49:19.000 Donald Sterling's age.
01:49:20.000 It ain't worth fighting it.
01:49:23.000 It ain't worth fighting it at that point. 0.99
01:49:24.000 He's an old dickwad. 0.98
01:49:25.000 You should have scared him and see if you could give him a hard time. 1.00
01:49:30.000 See if he could get his little fucking shit ticker to give out on him. 1.00
01:49:35.000 Enough of you with your defense contracting and your global warming denying. 1.00
01:49:39.000 Ah, yeah, I know.
01:49:40.000 You just sort of feel like, well, at least I don't think...
01:49:42.000 I think you're too old to have too much of a sway in this other than your vote still counts as much as mine does.
01:49:46.000 I like talking to guys like that just to find out what makes them draw those conclusions.
01:49:51.000 But what I'm always fascinated by is...
01:49:54.000 Because you've done that on this show.
01:49:55.000 You've had people who...
01:49:58.000 You know, have contrary positions to what...
01:50:00.000 But you're able to engage with them, I think, in a really interesting way that's not terribly...
01:50:06.000 It's confrontational, but it's not...
01:50:07.000 I don't know how to describe it right, but I've seen you do it, and it's a skill, obviously, yeah.
01:50:12.000 Well, I like to talk to people that have strong beliefs in systems, in things rather, to find out how their belief systems are formed.
01:50:22.000 I want to know, is there a logical, rational sort of basis to their belief systems, or is it just that they've sort of adopted this predetermined pattern, which is very common.
01:50:33.000 Very much so, yeah.
01:50:34.000 We're good to go.
01:50:56.000 You're not a scientist, right?
01:50:57.000 I started mocking him. 1.00
01:50:58.000 I go, listen, man, you're being silly. 1.00
01:51:00.000 You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. 1.00
01:51:02.000 And where'd you get it? 1.00
01:51:04.000 Just tell me where you got that mindset.
01:51:05.000 Where did it come from?
01:51:06.000 It's that no-nonsense right-wing mentality.
01:51:09.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:51:10.000 Like, don't even question it.
01:51:11.000 It's clearly... 0.90
01:51:12.000 What's really fascinating about it is that they're always supporting big business, but yet no one gets fucked over more than blue-collar folks when it comes to big business. 0.98
01:51:22.000 No one gets fucked over more. 0.97
01:51:23.000 I've always felt that too. 0.97
01:51:23.000 It's like sometimes this outlook is actually the one that's most injurious to you in a way of your own life and your own, you know, sort of happiness in a way. 0.97
01:51:32.000 Yeah.
01:51:32.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:51:33.000 I mean, if you think about it, the people that are less educated...
01:51:38.000 Mm-hmm.
01:51:40.000 Mm-hmm.
01:51:52.000 Mm-hmm.
01:52:16.000 Are more likely to support public assistance or more likely to be against some of the environmentally destroying policies of big businesses.
01:52:27.000 It's real weird how people just sort of form these patterns that they lock into.
01:52:32.000 And that, as you said, can be really against their own self-interest and self-benefit going forward.
01:52:38.000 But I don't know about you, but I found like as I've gotten older, like when I was in school, I was a total like lib, like almost as left as you could go, as piecey as you could go.
01:52:47.000 And as I get older, I feel like I come to some sort of, not the center, I'll always be to the left.
01:52:53.000 But you know what I mean?
01:52:53.000 There's certain things about liberal, you know, that get on my nerves as well.
01:52:57.000 Like, I mean, and that's just, I feel like any fully rounded human being is not going to always be in one camp entirely.
01:53:04.000 Yeah, that's a healthy approach, I think.
01:53:07.000 I'm very much a conglomeration of liberal and conservative ideas.
01:53:11.000 Yeah, I found like more and more.
01:53:12.000 Well, there's an old saying, show me a young man who is not liberal and I'll show you a man with no heart. 0.76
01:53:21.000 Show me an old man who's not conservative and I'll show you a man with no brain. 0.90
01:53:25.000 And it's that somewhere along the line you realize that people need a certain amount of difficulty in life.
01:53:32.000 They need a certain amount of hardship and they need a certain amount of We're good to go.
01:53:59.000 There's a lot of weakness.
01:54:01.000 When you give people the lottery ticket, what happens?
01:54:05.000 They lose all their money and they fall apart.
01:54:08.000 People need to accomplish things.
01:54:10.000 It's a part of the whole genetic sequence that has been sort of ingrained in the human species from all of our past behaviors.
01:54:20.000 All of our human reward systems of accomplishing things and feeling good about accomplishing things and building up self-confidence.
01:54:28.000 That's real.
01:54:29.000 So the pull yourself by your bootstraps, in a lot of ways, that's good advice.
01:54:34.000 Unfortunately, it gets conglomerated and attached to... 1.00
01:54:39.000 This hatred towards homosexuals, this weird fucking pro-war stance. 0.99
01:54:46.000 A strong religion, religious kind of context and flavor to things as well, which kind of has a... 0.99
01:54:54.000 You talk about things happening when you're a kid.
01:54:56.000 I've always felt that that's one of the things...
01:54:59.000 That really influences your thinking and the way that you have an outlook on the world.
01:55:04.000 And I think that's a part of what religion does, is they want to get you young and they want to get you indoctrinated and they want to sort of have a good soldier for the battle going forward kind of a thing.
01:55:15.000 And I never grew up that way.
01:55:17.000 I don't know about you, but I... We're not a very religious household, but I've certainly come across a lot of religious...
01:55:23.000 And some of whom are totally awesome and really nice and really...
01:55:27.000 My wife actually came up really Baptist.
01:55:30.000 And there was some point around when she was 18 or 19, I was just like, I can't do this anymore.
01:55:35.000 I'm tired of feeling bad about myself for X, Y, Z. And so she sort of left the fold.
01:55:42.000 But she said that was one of the most difficult things she ever did, peeling away from really all of her friends, all of...
01:55:48.000 All of that, you know, because of the entire, it was a nice little safe bubble that she was in.
01:55:52.000 And she still likes a lot of those people to this day.
01:55:56.000 But overall, it was something she felt she had to do in order to sort of grow, I guess, or make some sort of separation from that time in her life.
01:56:05.000 Well, there's a disconnect.
01:56:06.000 If you subscribe to religion and all of its principles by the book, there's just a massive disconnect you have to have.
01:56:15.000 Mm-hmm.
01:56:16.000 With just reality itself.
01:56:18.000 You're believing in Adam and Eve and resurrections and miracles and no evidence whatsoever to support any of these things that are completely contrary to anything that you've ever experienced and then all the evidence that you see of science.
01:56:31.000 Oh, Earth is only 6,000 years old according to this book.
01:56:33.000 Oh, okay. 0.99
01:56:35.000 Didn't they just find some hundred-million-year-old shit lies, propaganda by the liberal media? 1.00
01:56:40.000 They were planted down there by, you know, by Barack. 1.00
01:56:44.000 Yeah, well, you know, the homosexuals are not condoned by the Bible. 0.98
01:56:47.000 They're very good diggers, I'll have you know, and they went down and they buried those bones. 0.97
01:56:51.000 And they sort of acid-dated them somehow so that they seem older than they are.
01:56:54.000 Well, you know, carbon dating is not an exact science.
01:56:57.000 No.
01:56:57.000 Fracking is a myth.
01:57:00.000 Meanwhile, they'll talk bad about homosexuals while they're eating a shrimp cocktail. 0.94
01:57:04.000 And they're like, yo, dude, you've got to read the whole book. 1.00
01:57:06.000 Because there's more shit about not eating shellfish than there is about being gay. 1.00
01:57:12.000 You're not supposed to eat shrimp. 1.00
01:57:14.000 You're not supposed to eat pigs. 1.00
01:57:16.000 There's a lot of shit that you're doing wrong. 1.00
01:57:17.000 You're not supposed to work on Saturday. 0.99
01:57:19.000 Oh, that's right, yeah. 1.00
01:57:21.000 You're not supposed to have religious tattoos, you fuckhead. 1.00
01:57:24.000 Oh, is that so? 1.00
01:57:25.000 Fuck yeah, you're not supposed to tattoo your body. 1.00
01:57:27.000 That's in the Bible. 1.00
01:57:28.000 People have religious tattoos.
01:57:30.000 It's like, talk about not reading the whole book.
01:57:32.000 Yeah, oh, exactly.
01:57:33.000 I think, and you just pick and choose.
01:57:35.000 Sure.
01:57:35.000 And one of the funniest things is, you know, really hardcore Christians will make fun of, you know, Scientology, which, fair enough, go ahead, I'm perfectly fine if you want to make fun of Scientology, but to obligate their own kind of weird stories that their book presents as well,
01:57:51.000 it's like, Yeah, it's, there's a certain, are you not spotting the irony here that there's a certain similarity between their weird Thetan-run sort of stories and your weird, you know, died and reborn after three days, kind of, and all the sort of, you know,
01:58:06.000 stories that we sort of beggar reality as well.
01:58:10.000 Well, I think compartmentalized thinking is very dangerous.
01:58:13.000 And I think once you just sort of make your mind up that your way is the only way, and you stop being objective, and you cease all introspective thought, you get sort of locked into this mindset, and you put these blinders on.
01:58:26.000 They don't allow you to see yourself. 0.99
01:58:29.000 It's how ridiculous you are. 1.00
01:58:30.000 And that's how people get caught doing dumb shit, like Ted Haggerty, the guy who was... 1.00
01:58:35.000 Oh, God, yeah. 1.00
01:58:35.000 Running this giant religious church, huge stadium filled with people. 1.00
01:58:40.000 Yeah, that's right.
01:58:40.000 Super church.
01:58:41.000 Meanwhile, he's smoking crystal meth and banging gay prostitutes. 1.00
01:58:45.000 And there's this recent guy who's an anti-gay marriage proponent who turns out he would run a female drag strip show. 1.00
01:58:53.000 That's right. 0.60
01:58:54.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:58:54.000 What is homeboy's name, Jamie?
01:58:56.000 This guy, it just came out the other day.
01:58:58.000 He's a North Carolina politician. 1.00
01:59:00.000 And he was a fucking, he's a drag queen. 1.00
01:59:03.000 It's so obvious that you see that. 1.00
01:59:05.000 There was that other one recently where that KKK guy shot like, and then they find out he'd had sex with a black male prostitute dressed as a woman or something like that. 1.00
01:59:14.000 Of course he did. 0.99
01:59:14.000 It's like, it doesn't take long before you somehow dig into these guys' history and you're like... 0.99
01:59:19.000 It's not even surprising anymore, really.
01:59:21.000 It's like, I knew that little skeleton was in your closet somewhere.
01:59:24.000 No, no, no, no, no, Craig.
01:59:25.000 See, that's the liberal media.
01:59:27.000 This man is in jail.
01:59:28.000 He can't talk for himself.
01:59:30.000 So the man's in jail.
01:59:31.000 They planted that information. 1.00
01:59:33.000 Just now have the information that he had sex with a gay male prostitute? 0.99
01:59:38.000 How about, where were you a year ago? 0.98
01:59:41.000 Do you know how easy it is to doctor macro fish so that they could go back and look through it and it would be there?
01:59:46.000 Pretty easy.
01:59:47.000 Pretty easy.
01:59:48.000 The government, they're watching what you're doing right now.
01:59:50.000 Here's homeboy.
01:59:51.000 That's what he used to look like when he was on track.
01:59:54.000 Oh, really?
01:59:54.000 His name's Steve Wild.
01:59:56.000 Just a rough number of cocks in his mouth. 0.98
01:59:59.000 How many do you say? 0.74
02:00:00.000 A thousand lifetime?
02:00:02.000 I would say that probably is a...
02:00:03.000 Look at him. 1.00
02:00:04.000 That's a face you just want to fuck with. 1.00
02:00:06.000 Big fat chubby cheeks. 1.00
02:00:08.000 He probably knows how to take a dick like a champ. 1.00
02:00:10.000 Especially when he's got the earrings on. 1.00
02:00:12.000 Those are just handles.
02:00:14.000 Big grips.
02:00:15.000 Big grippy earrings.
02:00:17.000 Look at them. 1.00
02:00:18.000 Silly bitch. 1.00
02:00:19.000 Dummy. 1.00
02:00:19.000 And by the way, there's nothing wrong with dressing up like a woman. 1.00
02:00:21.000 No, not at all. 1.00
02:00:22.000 Nothing wrong with sucking a thousand cocks. 1.00
02:00:23.000 No, but it's when you're sort of... 1.00
02:00:24.000 When you're... 0.96
02:00:32.000 It's ridiculous. 0.98
02:00:34.000 Yeah. 0.97
02:00:49.000 Is that so?
02:00:49.000 Oh, good googly moogly Nick Cutter, a.k.a.
02:00:53.000 Craig.
02:00:54.000 They do, man.
02:00:55.000 It's like a big thing with girls. 1.00
02:00:57.000 Girls who are promiscuous love to shit on other girls who are promiscuous. 1.00
02:01:02.000 Oh, is that fucking bitch? 1.00
02:01:03.000 She's a whore. 1.00
02:01:04.000 She's a fucking everybody. 1.00
02:01:05.000 Meanwhile, you're fucking everybody. 1.00
02:01:07.000 You know, and men do the same thing. 1.00
02:01:09.000 Guys who sleep around are constantly shitting on guys who sleep around. 0.99
02:01:13.000 Who sleep around too much. 0.99
02:01:14.000 Of course.
02:01:15.000 Yeah.
02:01:15.000 It's a common thing.
02:01:16.000 It's like people try to throw people off the case.
02:01:19.000 Oh, it's like, yeah, exactly.
02:01:21.000 It's like that self-hatred thing almost sometimes that sort of, yeah.
02:01:25.000 There's definitely a lot of that, you know.
02:01:27.000 You used to see that about guys who used to steal jokes would sometimes, like, accuse other people of stealing their jokes.
02:01:33.000 To throw them off the case. 0.97
02:01:34.000 And other comedians would be like, is this motherfucking serious? 0.97
02:01:36.000 Like, everybody knows you steal everything you do on stage. 0.97
02:01:40.000 And Mencia would constantly accuse people of stealing his material.
02:01:43.000 Because he was the biggest. 1.00
02:01:45.000 And everybody would be like, what the fuck? 1.00
02:01:46.000 What's going on here? 0.99
02:01:48.000 But when you think about, like, the most obvious defense, that's the one.
02:01:51.000 If I'm getting accused of something, I'll just accuse other people of the same thing that I'm running up into.
02:01:56.000 I was wondering that, too.
02:01:57.000 Like, for you, you know, I talked about earlier about, like, when I read Stephen King the second time as an adult, as a writer myself and trying to break it apart.
02:02:06.000 Do you do that with other comedians? 0.99
02:02:07.000 Do you, like, listen to them the first time and just, like, fuck, that's so good. 0.96
02:02:10.000 And then the second time you sort of try and... 0.99
02:02:13.000 Just see what they're doing.
02:02:14.000 Not to copy it or steal anything, but just see how are they forensically almost putting together these jokes and how are they...
02:02:21.000 Sort of.
02:02:22.000 What I really do is I like to go back and listen to really old stuff to try to understand the time period.
02:02:29.000 Because I think that a lot of...
02:02:31.000 Comedy is a weird thing.
02:02:32.000 Like a lot of old movies...
02:02:34.000 They still hold up today.
02:02:36.000 Like if you go back and watch The Hustler with Jackie Gleason.
02:02:39.000 Such a good movie, yeah.
02:02:40.000 Great movie.
02:02:40.000 Paul Newman.
02:02:41.000 Holds up completely today.
02:02:43.000 It's still a great movie.
02:02:45.000 But any comedy from 1962, very tough to listen to.
02:02:49.000 Yeah.
02:02:50.000 It changes.
02:02:50.000 Comedy changes so fast.
02:02:52.000 I think something like horror or something like The Hustler, like The Thing is as good now, the Kirk Russell one, as it was when it was made.
02:03:01.000 But comedy, there's a certain shelf life.
02:03:03.000 It evolves a lot faster, I think.
02:03:05.000 And something that was really edgy at one point becomes stale dated, I think, at some point.
02:03:10.000 That's sort of my feeling about guys like Lenny Bruce, who, in my opinion, is probably the most important comedian ever.
02:03:19.000 And he was the guy who got arrested the most, and he was the guy who pushed the boundaries of understanding language and content, and what's the intent of what you're trying to say, and what are we doing when we're suppressing this intent?
02:03:31.000 And he was a brilliant, brilliant guy, who ultimately went mad.
02:03:36.000 Did he really?
02:03:37.000 I never followed him towards the end of his...
02:03:40.000 He went mad and he would go on stage and just read transcripts of his legal proceedings.
02:03:46.000 I mean, it was really, really boring stuff.
02:03:48.000 So like Kaufman-esque kind of stuff?
02:03:50.000 No, no, no, no.
02:03:50.000 Not even like that.
02:03:51.000 Because Kaufman was doing it ironically.
02:03:53.000 Like he would stand on stage and play Mighty Mouse theme song and go, Here I come to save the day!
02:04:00.000 And he would just freak people out because they expected him to do comedy. 1.00
02:04:02.000 He would just do weird shit. 1.00
02:04:04.000 But Lenny was going nuts. 0.99
02:04:06.000 And towards the end of his life, he would go on stage and read directly out of the transcripts and try to explain why the judge was wrong.
02:04:15.000 But there was no humor in it at all.
02:04:16.000 Oh, really?
02:04:16.000 Just more like...
02:04:17.000 He was going crazy.
02:04:18.000 And he was doing heroin all the time.
02:04:20.000 There was a lot going on there.
02:04:21.000 But I will listen to his comedy and try to put myself into this sort of...
02:04:27.000 Almost innocent mindset of the people that were living in the 1960s listening to this kind of comedy, trying to wrap my head around what kind of an impact this guy would have had.
02:04:39.000 I don't necessarily try to deconstruct their comedy.
02:04:43.000 Comedy is different in a lot of ways than fiction.
02:04:47.000 And I think in fiction, when you're reading a great novel, like you're reading Moby Dick or something like that, it still holds true.
02:04:53.000 It holds the test of time.
02:04:55.000 When you read that, you can kind of get a feeling for the way the narrative is driven and the way the use of words shapes the environment that you're imagining and Comedy is very different in that.
02:05:10.000 It's just, I guess I certainly did when I was first starting out, but I don't really do that anymore.
02:05:17.000 If I watch comedy now, I watch it just to enjoy it.
02:05:21.000 Yeah.
02:05:21.000 I try to watch it as a fan.
02:05:22.000 Yeah, yeah.
02:05:23.000 And I do the same thing with reading.
02:05:26.000 And there's some stuff that you realize, this is awesome, this is outside of what I could possibly do anyways.
02:05:32.000 I imagine you listen to some comedians and it's the same.
02:05:35.000 It's like, what they're doing is fabulous, but it's so far afield from the stuff.
02:05:39.000 It allows you actually just to enjoy it totally as a fan, because there's no worry about, well, this is going to influence me in some way that would be problematical.
02:05:50.000 Sure.
02:05:50.000 You know, because it's just so different, but...
02:05:52.000 Who's an example like that for you as a writer?
02:05:55.000 Is just so different?
02:05:59.000 Well, yeah, like Margaret Atwood, for example, the Canadian writer.
02:06:03.000 She did like The Handmaid's Tale, was made into a movie.
02:06:06.000 You don't remember that yet?
02:06:07.000 Sounds like vomit.
02:06:10.000 If someone had to say...
02:06:11.000 Well, that's the problem with me.
02:06:12.000 Sorry, go ahead.
02:06:13.000 Want to do a week in prison?
02:06:15.000 Or read The Handmaid's Tale?
02:06:17.000 Read all of the Margaret Atwood books.
02:06:19.000 Oh, no.
02:06:20.000 Read one a week for the rest of your life.
02:06:22.000 I'll be like...
02:06:23.000 I'll do my week.
02:06:24.000 I'd rather take the prison term.
02:06:25.000 I'll take my prison term.
02:06:26.000 But you don't understand.
02:06:27.000 It's going to enrich you and grow you as a person.
02:06:29.000 Yeah.
02:06:29.000 Oh, okay.
02:06:30.000 Yeah, come on. 0.77
02:06:31.000 Not the kind of person I want to grow to be. 1.00
02:06:33.000 You know, if you take a fucking pineapple tree and you grow it in the same place where you grow grapes, it's not the same environment, you fuckhead. 1.00
02:06:45.000 I don't know if that's a good analogy. 1.00
02:06:47.000 You know, I worry about that too because I am a little bit of a chameleon.
02:06:51.000 So if I start reading too many, say like noir books, suddenly that becomes, or westerns, you know, I think I want my next book wants to be sort of like a horror western sort of a thing.
02:07:01.000 So first of all, I need to read a lot of those things just to situate myself, I think, in that time and sort of get the feel for it.
02:07:08.000 But you do worry that you're going to be like...
02:07:11.000 You know, you don't want to be derivative.
02:07:13.000 I guess that's the thing, right?
02:07:14.000 And that, you know, because in comedy, it's joke-stealing, but it's all plagiarism.
02:07:19.000 It's the same thing.
02:07:20.000 And there's some writers who probably get too close to their source material, and then they find out later that, like, this is so close that it's almost copying what this other person is, who I really admire. 0.95
02:07:32.000 I see why I did it, but fuck, I'm not my own self here.
02:07:35.000 I'm more like just this person, yeah. 0.98
02:07:37.000 That's very common in comedy in the beginning.
02:07:40.000 Yeah, where you're looking for your voice, right?
02:07:41.000 Your style.
02:07:42.000 Like, eventually, I feel it's like a thumbprint.
02:07:44.000 And initially, your thumbprint is, there's nothing on it.
02:07:47.000 But slowly, the worlds start developing, and you get something that's distinctively your own.
02:07:51.000 But it comes with time.
02:07:52.000 You don't really know what you're doing yet, and you want to be like this guy that you admire.
02:07:56.000 So you start doing comedy that's similar to this guy.
02:07:59.000 For me, in the beginning, it was Richard Jenney.
02:08:02.000 Do you know Richard Jenney?
02:08:03.000 Oh, of course.
02:08:04.000 Yeah, in The Mask.
02:08:04.000 I remember him in one of his one movie appearances.
02:08:07.000 Oh, outstanding.
02:08:07.000 That was so much better than his movie stuff.
02:08:09.000 But I remember being a big admirer of his and then on stage hearing myself going, oh my god, I'm ripping off his cadence.
02:08:18.000 There's so many guys who they start out.
02:08:21.000 I mean, this is like I was...
02:08:23.000 Essentially an open mic girl.
02:08:24.000 It was like a year into my comedy career or somewhere around there.
02:08:28.000 And I realized it, but I see it all the time.
02:08:31.000 There's a lot of Dave Attell clones out there.
02:08:34.000 And there was a few Dane Cook clones for a while.
02:08:37.000 And there's probably some Louis C.K. clones.
02:08:40.000 By now, yeah.
02:08:41.000 Yeah, I mean, it's just a thing where someone admires a style of comedy and they start to imitate.
02:08:45.000 I've seen my own...
02:08:49.000 Yeah, it's got to feel weird.
02:08:51.000 And you're parsing it out.
02:08:52.000 You're sort of like, that is...
02:08:54.000 And it's not necessarily the actual joke that they've taken, but they've taken more your...
02:09:00.000 You know what I mean?
02:09:01.000 The essence of the way that you present yourself on stage.
02:09:03.000 The way you deliver things and also your subject matter.
02:09:06.000 They'll just twist around your subject matter.
02:09:09.000 And so it's not like your material they're taking... 0.95
02:09:11.000 But god damn, it's close. 0.90
02:09:13.000 It's just like you can see the road that got them there. 0.99
02:09:16.000 It's only a couple blocks away from the source.
02:09:19.000 Yeah.
02:09:20.000 And you can't really claim originality because the real problem with originality is there's no such thing. 1.00
02:09:26.000 Oh, fuck. 0.99
02:09:27.000 Yeah, and publishers want that. 1.00
02:09:29.000 They're like, what is...
02:09:31.000 It's like everything's been done already, I hate to say, you know?
02:09:33.000 You can have unique viewpoints.
02:09:36.000 Yeah.
02:09:36.000 They can be unique.
02:09:37.000 Yeah.
02:09:38.000 But ultimately original?
02:09:39.000 Boy, the whole language is an original.
02:09:41.000 If you're going to write about murder, monsters, air, water, the elements, I mean, all those things have been covered.
02:09:49.000 They've been done.
02:09:49.000 Yeah.
02:09:51.000 Any description that you have of any of these various aspects is going to resonate with people because they directly have either literary experience in it, some film experience in it, an actual real life experience.
02:10:05.000 So there is no real truly original thought anymore.
02:10:09.000 No, but I found, I don't know about you with comedy or with some of the other things you've done, but one of the biggest leaps I made is recognizing that my own life has value.
02:10:19.000 You know what I mean?
02:10:19.000 There are interesting moments in my life, interesting scenes, things that I've experienced, and you bring them in in the service of a character.
02:10:28.000 It's transported and you're telling it through a character's eyes.
02:10:31.000 And I've always felt like there you don't have to make anything up.
02:10:34.000 You're just going back and remembering as deeply as possible.
02:10:37.000 And those things are original, even if it's within a story that itself might have been told a thousand times.
02:10:43.000 The one thing that you can go back and you can stake a claim on is like, this comes from some element of my own life and I know it has to be original.
02:10:49.000 I mean, even that's not original because other human beings have experienced it and that's your hope is that you're actually going to be able to reach into their I think the word isn't original.
02:11:07.000 The real word is derivative.
02:11:09.000 And the real problem that people have is when they're intentionally derivative.
02:11:14.000 And what that does is it stifles creativity.
02:11:18.000 Because someone, like, say if someone...
02:11:22.000 I don't want to give away the story of your book, The Troop...
02:11:25.000 But if someone read your book and decided, you know what, I'm going to make my own story about this exact scenario, and then they kept going back to your book, and they started adding elements to it with different dialogue, but the same elements, 0.99
02:11:41.000 and here's the fucking guy. 0.99
02:11:44.000 I mean... 1.00
02:11:46.000 That's gross.
02:11:47.000 And it upsets us.
02:11:48.000 When we find out that your originality, what we conceive to be, or perceive to be originality, is really just you copying and twisting around the original work of someone else.
02:11:59.000 It's very upsetting.
02:12:00.000 Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.
02:12:01.000 And you feel like that's a...
02:12:02.000 Why would you get into it in the first place?
02:12:04.000 But I know in publishing, say when the Da Vinci Code came out, publishers were like, we need the next...
02:12:10.000 Uh-huh.
02:12:25.000 Nice amount of money to write what you know is sort of a bit of a knockoff.
02:12:30.000 You know, people may be enticed into sort of doing that.
02:12:34.000 You know, whether that's why they got into writing in the first place, you have to assume not, you know?
02:12:39.000 But, yeah, I found like there's some element of that and there's some element of...
02:12:50.000 Publishers sort of don't want originality sometimes.
02:12:52.000 Sometimes they're like, this is a known commodity.
02:12:54.000 This is working really well.
02:12:56.000 We would like you to do stuff like this.
02:12:59.000 And sometimes they're even scared of originality.
02:13:01.000 Same as Lenny Bruce.
02:13:03.000 People who are that original, it's not an easy road to hoe. 1.00
02:13:07.000 Whereas if you do sort of do maybe a rip-off of a Dane Cook act, I think you might initially get a better pop than you would if you're really charting sort of really original territory.
02:13:17.000 Depends.
02:13:18.000 Depends on how well you're doing it. 1.00
02:13:19.000 If you're an idiot and you're ripping off someone, yeah, you might get a little reaction. 1.00
02:13:24.000 There's a few of those guys out there right now. 1.00
02:13:25.000 But I think that what we appreciate in someone is we appreciate artistic expression, meaning that We're all influenced by music and movies and literature and things that we've experienced in life.
02:13:38.000 There's influences that are just undeniable.
02:13:40.000 But what is your intent when you sit down to create something?
02:13:43.000 Is your intent to express yourself in your own unique language, your own unique experiences, in your own creativity? 1.00
02:13:53.000 Or are you just copying shit? 1.00
02:13:55.000 And when you're just copying shit, that makes us angry. 1.00
02:13:57.000 Yeah, of course. 1.00
02:13:58.000 There's like a certain amount of like hate that Nickelback gets.
02:14:02.000 Yes.
02:14:02.000 That I'm not sure why they get that hate, but I think that some of it has to do with the fact that...
02:14:08.000 It seems like they concocted it.
02:14:11.000 Like they went and put together these songs based on...
02:14:14.000 Some algorithm.
02:14:15.000 Yeah.
02:14:15.000 Yeah, yeah.
02:14:16.000 I don't know if it's fair.
02:14:18.000 I don't get it. 0.99
02:14:19.000 I don't know why the hate exists, but boy, if you want to fucking make an audience laugh, just talk about how shitty Nickelback is. 0.99
02:14:25.000 And people go, yeah! 1.00
02:14:27.000 They do suck. 0.99
02:14:28.000 But there's certain bands that probably suck equally, or worse, that get a free pass. 1.00
02:14:34.000 Or suck in a totally different way. 0.89
02:14:36.000 I think what bothers me more is... 0.99
02:14:37.000 Mumford& Sons.
02:14:38.000 Yeah, they're...
02:14:39.000 I said it.
02:14:39.000 I said it.
02:14:40.000 Yeah.
02:14:41.000 Even, I mean, I hate to throw these guys under the bus, but Arcade Fire a little bit, you know? 1.00
02:14:45.000 I don't know who the fuck they are. 0.99
02:14:46.000 Oh, you don't know? 1.00
02:14:46.000 Well, they're a Canadian band. 1.00
02:14:49.000 And it's like, you know, it's like...
02:14:52.000 If you're being super original, that's almost in a way a fake originality.
02:14:57.000 You know what I mean?
02:14:58.000 I've noticed that as well.
02:15:00.000 You're not really as original as you think you are, but you've convinced other people that you're really original, and that's a double delusion, whereas Nickelback is what they are.
02:15:07.000 Well, when someone's affected, what I get about Mumford and Son is I like a lot of their songs.
02:15:12.000 I think some of their songs are very good, especially their early songs.
02:15:14.000 But now I feel like they're in this groove of doing that certain kind of music, and so they dress a certain kind of way, and I'm like, you're wearing a costume. 0.99
02:15:23.000 You might as well be dressed up as a fucking clown, okay? 0.99
02:15:25.000 Because you're dressed up like a guy. 1.00
02:15:27.000 You look like a pioneer or something. 1.00
02:15:29.000 You're out there with a mason jar in your hand, you're playing a fucking homemade fiddle. 0.99
02:15:33.000 What are you doing, dude? 1.00
02:15:34.000 Piano in the middle of the field. 1.00
02:15:35.000 What's that wheat field and the fucking piano? 1.00
02:15:38.000 What's going on here? 1.00
02:15:41.000 This is an affectation.
02:15:43.000 And you wonder if they started that way or if they got engineered, like some producer came and said, listen, we need more wheat fields.
02:15:49.000 You guys need the mason jar thing. 0.99
02:15:51.000 What the fuck is going on there? 0.99
02:15:53.000 Yeah, whether they started that way or whether that's... 0.99
02:15:55.000 What's up with those boots?
02:15:56.000 The big hoedown boots going on.
02:15:58.000 Are you working in the field and then you took some time off to sing?
02:16:01.000 Or are you a multi-millionaire rock star?
02:16:02.000 Because I get confused. 1.00
02:16:04.000 With your fucking, your goofy beard. 1.00
02:16:06.000 Fucking stop. 1.00
02:16:08.000 What's up with the fake trees behind you too? 1.00
02:16:10.000 That's even more offensive.
02:16:13.000 We're down home.
02:16:15.000 We're country.
02:16:15.000 Exactly.
02:16:16.000 In a fucking hotel lobby in Beverly Hills. 1.00
02:16:18.000 Doing a photo shoot with makeup on. 1.00
02:16:20.000 Fuck yourself. 1.00
02:16:23.000 Well, I think that you also become a prisoner to your success if you get a certain amount of success doing a certain thing. 1.00
02:16:31.000 I was talking about this yesterday, but I had a friend who was a fat guy whose agent told him, don't lose weight.
02:16:36.000 You lose weight, you're losing roles.
02:16:38.000 You're losing parts if you lose weight.
02:16:42.000 He was trapped in this thing that he had created, this overweight, bumbling character.
02:16:48.000 Yeah, exactly.
02:16:49.000 And that does seem to be like, I'm sure you've talked about it before, but it's not as funny.
02:16:54.000 Like Joe Piscopo, even getting ripped, you know what I mean?
02:16:57.000 You managed to do it, but Joe Piscopo couldn't go from the sort of weedy guy to the big, bulky guy of dead heat and maintain being as funny as he was.
02:17:06.000 And the same thing with fat.
02:17:07.000 If you lose the weight, suddenly people are just like, oh, you're not as funny.
02:17:11.000 And why is that?
02:17:11.000 I'm not really sure, but there's the physical comedy of just being a big guy.
02:17:16.000 Yeah, I don't know what happened with Joe Piscopo, but I've heard the comparisons.
02:17:20.000 Have you?
02:17:21.000 Oh, really?
02:17:21.000 And you don't welcome it, I imagine.
02:17:23.000 Well, I don't give a fuck. 1.00
02:17:23.000 Oh, good, good. 1.00
02:17:25.000 Maybe that's why it didn't work, because I didn't give a fuck if I... And plus, you came on the scene, you were already big. 0.99
02:17:31.000 Yeah. 0.99
02:17:32.000 You never understood as in some other body position.
02:17:35.000 You know, you were always a big guy back in news radio when I first saw you.
02:17:38.000 I wasn't as big.
02:17:39.000 I didn't really lift as much weights back then.
02:17:41.000 I was just kickboxing.
02:17:42.000 But I had been a black belt in martial arts since I was 17. So I had come from this physical background from the beginning.
02:17:48.000 Yeah.
02:17:49.000 Where I kind of was really...
02:17:51.000 Self-conscious about it.
02:17:52.000 When I first used to do comedy, it would kind of hide my body a little bit.
02:17:55.000 Oh, really?
02:17:56.000 Yeah.
02:17:56.000 Wear really bulky clothes to sort of hide my shape because I felt like people wouldn't understand.
02:18:03.000 And I'd seen guys on stage who were muscular, too, and I'd be like, that's really distracting.
02:18:06.000 That's not going over as well.
02:18:07.000 It's not smart.
02:18:09.000 People don't want to see that.
02:18:10.000 Come up in sort of a ripped up shirt or whatever really showing.
02:18:12.000 People don't want to see that.
02:18:14.000 They'd rather see you out of shape.
02:18:16.000 That's kind of funny to have a go on stage with a big beer gut, slapping your gut while you're telling your punchline.
02:18:22.000 That's right.
02:18:22.000 That's kind of funny.
02:18:23.000 Yeah.
02:18:23.000 But it doesn't mean that you can't be funny and be fit.
02:18:26.000 It's like we have these ideas that we know what's funny and what's not, but you don't know until you see it.
02:18:32.000 And that's one of the reasons why someone can't really teach you how to be funny.
02:18:35.000 Because you can never teach Mitch Hedberg.
02:18:37.000 Like, you can never have a class in how to be Mitch Hedberg.
02:18:39.000 No.
02:18:40.000 Because it doesn't fit any rules.
02:18:41.000 No.
02:18:42.000 He's his own entity entirely.
02:18:44.000 Yeah.
02:18:44.000 So, you can't fit Joey Diaz.
02:18:48.000 There's guys you just...
02:18:49.000 You can't fit them into a mold.
02:18:50.000 It doesn't...
02:18:51.000 And then you realize somewhere along the line...
02:18:53.000 If it's funny to you, it's about trying to figure out a way to get inside people's heads and get them to relate.
02:19:01.000 Yeah, same as fiction.
02:19:03.000 Yeah, but it has to be funny to you.
02:19:04.000 And a lot of bad comedy is it's not even funny to them.
02:19:09.000 There's a certain stage of comedy.
02:19:12.000 There's two stages in the beginning.
02:19:14.000 Stage number one is you just do anything that works.
02:19:20.000 There's like...
02:19:21.000 Hammers and saws and you're just using tools.
02:19:23.000 Each joke is like a tool.
02:19:25.000 Once you get a certain amount of proficiency and confidence and a certain amount of stage time, then you start doing things that you think are funny.
02:19:32.000 And then that's the shift.
02:19:34.000 The shift that goes from doing things that you think will work and then I say...
02:19:38.000 And you look around, please laugh.
02:19:40.000 And they laugh and you're like...
02:19:41.000 Oh, thank God.
02:19:42.000 And then, two, you get a guy who goes on stage with like a half a grin.
02:19:45.000 He's like, why is this going on?
02:19:48.000 Because I see that. 1.00
02:19:48.000 And I'm like, who the fuck are you talking... 1.00
02:19:50.000 And the audience starts laughing, yes! 1.00
02:19:52.000 Because they relate to the way this guy's thinking.
02:19:54.000 Because he actually does see humor in what he's saying.
02:19:56.000 It's an honest vision of humor.
02:19:59.000 Yeah.
02:19:59.000 And those two stages are very distinct.
02:20:01.000 And there's a huge difference.
02:20:03.000 And the thing about Joke Thieves...
02:20:05.000 And people who are derivative is they never get out of that first stage.
02:20:09.000 Even though as popular as they can get.
02:20:11.000 That's why there's a lot of guys who started out stealing jokes and then they stopped.
02:20:15.000 I could name names, I will not. 0.97
02:20:17.000 But they stopped stealing and they started writing original material and their original material is dogshit. 0.97
02:20:23.000 Oh really? 0.74
02:20:24.000 And the reason why is they never really learned how to do comedy.
02:20:26.000 They never really understand the language of comedy because A big part of comedy has to deal with honesty.
02:20:31.000 Both honesty with the environment that you live in and honesty with yourself and how you interface with all the people around you.
02:20:36.000 And if you're pretending you're this comedic genius and really just a plagiarist, you're dealing with a lot of demons.
02:20:42.000 You're dealing with a lot of walls you've built up in your psyche.
02:20:45.000 And those walls just trip you up when you try to write original stuff.
02:20:49.000 I would imagine that's the same way with literature as well.
02:20:51.000 Very much.
02:20:51.000 Very much.
02:20:52.000 And I think that second stage is right.
02:20:54.000 The first stage is you're sort of...
02:20:56.000 You're almost emulating the people that you love.
02:20:59.000 And the second stage is you want to do something on your own.
02:21:02.000 And that second stage, I think, with you is dealing with The idea that you're confident enough that this joke means a lot to me, whether it's going to go over, I can actually deal with that.
02:21:11.000 Whereas in the first stage, you couldn't possibly deal with a reaction that didn't feed some sort of sense of accomplishment or get them to laugh or that.
02:21:18.000 I think sometimes with comedians that I've watched, obviously, I rarely watch them through the early stages of their career.
02:21:24.000 But the comfortability there, and it's the same with writers, they're like...
02:21:29.000 If I fail, that's fine.
02:21:30.000 I want to fail doing something really interesting, really original to me, and that really is an expression of what the hell I got into this in the first place for.
02:21:38.000 You know, a good example of that is Hunter Thompson in the early days used to take F. Scott Fitzgerald and just retype it.
02:21:48.000 Oh, yeah.
02:21:49.000 He would retype The Great Gatsby over and over and over again.
02:21:52.000 And the idea was that, I think he did it with Hemingway as well.
02:21:55.000 Okay.
02:21:56.000 And the idea was that he was learning the rhythm of great writing.
02:22:00.000 And that there was in writing down the great writing of other people, you sort of develop a sense of the rhythm.
02:22:08.000 Yeah, I could see that. 0.96
02:22:09.000 And in a way, that's how I got into comedy because I would see an HBO special and then I would tell my friends, holy shit, did you see Sam Kinison last night?
02:22:18.000 He had this joke and then I would tell them the joke and they would laugh at me telling them the joke and I would sort of realize through the rhythm of doing Sam's material in his voice. 0.99
02:22:29.000 I was married for two fucking years! 0.99
02:22:32.000 Oh, oh! 1.00
02:22:33.000 It would be like club bed!
02:22:34.000 And your friends are laughing, and you kind of get the rhythm of this thing, which is very similar to what Hunter did.
02:22:42.000 Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
02:22:43.000 Did you ever do that?
02:22:44.000 Did you ever try to, like...
02:22:46.000 Picture yourself writing a great piece that someone else had written and just like go over it.
02:22:51.000 I did a lot of, not quite like that, but similarly, like you'd read a...
02:22:56.000 There are some writers, probably the same as some comedians, whose style seems so easy to imitate.
02:23:02.000 Who's an example?
02:23:03.000 Well, Ray Carver, the short story writer, the American short story writer, would be an example of a style that you look at and you're like, I could do this.
02:23:10.000 But you can't.
02:23:11.000 Once you really set your mind to like, I'll try and write a Carver type story...
02:23:15.000 That's what makes the genius there, I think, is that it seems easy, it seems that something you can do, but the genius is not only in the genius of him, but in the genius of his deceptively simple style.
02:23:26.000 So I tried to write, say, a Carver story, and it was a total nightmare and a failure.
02:23:31.000 You know, we have things in the writing.
02:23:33.000 We call them trunk stories, basically stories that you write.
02:23:35.000 You throw them in a trunk.
02:23:36.000 You're never going to see them again.
02:23:37.000 And my trunk is full of stories like that.
02:23:39.000 And I imagine your trunk, similarly, is full of stuff.
02:23:42.000 And these are all things that, like, you need to go through.
02:23:44.000 I mean, I probably was rejected...
02:23:48.000 200 times at magazines before I finally placed a story.
02:23:51.000 I could literally have filled a shopping bag or a pillowcase with rejection slips.
02:23:56.000 When you have an idea for a story, how many of those ideas actually wind up being stories that you will turn into a book or a short story?
02:24:03.000 Well...
02:24:05.000 It's a pretty small percentage in terms of the ones that, you know, I always think of it's like, you know, the way a pearl gets created.
02:24:12.000 You've got like an oyster and a little bit of sand gets in it.
02:24:15.000 And then if enough like, nacre or whatever goes around it, then I'm like, okay, that's enough.
02:24:19.000 It feels like the characters are strong enough.
02:24:21.000 I've got an idea of the plot and where I want to send these characters.
02:24:24.000 Then you sort of harvest that pearl and it becomes a short story.
02:24:27.000 It becomes a novel.
02:24:28.000 But there's several that just are imperfect.
02:24:30.000 You can tell just in their conception they're imperfect.
02:24:33.000 I don't have a, you know, it's different, right?
02:24:35.000 See, I would write a story.
02:24:37.000 I'd send it out.
02:24:38.000 If it's not working, you don't really know until you get enough rejections that it's clearly okay. 0.99
02:24:42.000 That's This fucking thing ain't working. 0.99
02:24:44.000 You guys get up on stage. 0.99
02:24:45.000 That's the difference.
02:24:46.000 How many times do you tell a joke that you really feel strong about or work on a piece of material before you have to say, this isn't meeting my expectation of what I thought? 1.00
02:24:56.000 Or do you just keep telling it anyway and just say, fuck it. 1.00
02:24:58.000 It depends. 1.00
02:24:59.000 It depends on how much I really enjoy it.
02:25:01.000 There are certain ones that just fucking never work and I do them just for me.
02:25:05.000 There's certain ones that I write, and I go, I know this has got something, but I can't figure out what it is.
02:25:09.000 And then there's certain bits that, as I write them, they come out in fully finished form.
02:25:15.000 Yeah.
02:25:15.000 Oh, that's brilliant when that happens.
02:25:16.000 I got one of my favorite bits that I'm doing right now that is in...
02:25:20.000 I wrote it on a plane, and I wrote it...
02:25:23.000 It's like a 10-minute piece.
02:25:24.000 And I wrote it in its full form on a plane, and I did it on stage that Monday, and it just...
02:25:32.000 Destroyed.
02:25:32.000 Really?
02:25:33.000 It was done.
02:25:34.000 From the moment it came out.
02:25:36.000 It resonated with me and I was so angry when I wrote it. 1.00
02:25:41.000 It was about a certain particular group of people that are so incredibly hypocritical and ridiculous. 0.97
02:25:48.000 I caught someone lying about something and it was in this group of people and I was like, I have had enough of this. 0.99
02:25:56.000 Went on a screed.
02:25:58.000 It came out as a chunk.
02:26:00.000 It was done.
02:26:01.000 Then there's other bits like I know there's something there, but I don't know what it is.
02:26:04.000 Yeah.
02:26:05.000 And sometimes those bits will last for years, and I'll throw them in like every third or fourth set when I'm killing in the middle. 0.98
02:26:12.000 I'll throw it in there, and then the audience will be like, what the fuck is that? 0.99
02:26:15.000 And I'm like, all right, this has got to die. 0.99
02:26:18.000 Yeah, sometimes it's like you feel the energy of the room and maybe I can slip this in.
02:26:23.000 With me too, I think it's a matter of I've had some stories that constantly got rejected and then I think you get a bit of a name for yourself and then those will find acceptance because they're like, okay, well he's done this and this and this.
02:26:34.000 But I find to me like speed is something.
02:26:36.000 I wrote The Troop probably in about six weeks, which is the fastest I've ever written anything.
02:26:40.000 But it was fun.
02:26:41.000 I'd come out of wherever the room where I write and my wife would be like, you look... 1.00
02:26:46.000 You don't look like all bedraggard and haggard like you do when you stumble out after working on your other books like a vampire's been sucking your blood out for eight hours.
02:26:54.000 And I'm like, that's sort of what has told me that I hope I'm able to write a lot more books in the horror genre because I just enjoy the writing of it.
02:27:01.000 It's more fun to me.
02:27:02.000 It's more...
02:27:03.000 It comes...
02:27:04.000 Like that.
02:27:04.000 And I mean...
02:27:05.000 The reason I think that came to you so fast, first of all, because you're passionate about it, but second of all, because you've been working at it a long time, and when those things come, you know how to deal with them.
02:27:13.000 And I think now I know better, okay, if the idea comes to me, I'm ready to make hay with it.
02:27:19.000 Well, I think you should really write a lot more horror, man.
02:27:21.000 But just because of what you said and because of the book being really fun.
02:27:25.000 I love that genre and I love when a book like that comes out.
02:27:30.000 And so you saying that this is something that thrilled you and energized you as you write, I really hope you keep doing that, man.
02:27:38.000 Yeah, I appreciate it.
02:27:40.000 Thank you.
02:27:41.000 We're sort of in between contracts right now, so I don't know.
02:27:44.000 I might be selling oranges on the side of the freeway for all that I know when I next see you.
02:27:51.000 I see you come to Massey Hall, right?
02:27:52.000 I will have to come out.
02:27:54.000 You were at Massey Hall once in Toronto.
02:27:56.000 I've been a couple times in the Sony Center recently.
02:27:58.000 I'd love to go and check that out.
02:28:00.000 Anyways, we're sort of in that weird space where I don't really know what's going to happen exactly, so hopefully I'll have good news soon.
02:28:07.000 Listen, man, you could self-publish.
02:28:08.000 This is a new era.
02:28:10.000 It's true.
02:28:10.000 Yeah, there is a lot more of that going on, and some huge successful people doing it that way.
02:28:14.000 Unbelievable success.
02:28:15.000 People have had unknowns that have put out something just through word of mouth, through Amazon and what have you, e-books.
02:28:22.000 It's incredible, isn't it?
02:28:23.000 And there are gaps in publishers who you wonder, like, I read this book, Wool, by a writer called Hugh Howey, and it's sort of sci-fi, really, really damn good, and you find out his history as he's been rejected by X number of publishers, and you're like...
02:28:36.000 How did that happen?
02:28:38.000 You know what I mean?
02:28:38.000 But it does.
02:28:39.000 It does happen.
02:28:40.000 And it's great that there's that opportunity now that like, okay, well, listen, that's fine.
02:28:44.000 I get it.
02:28:44.000 You guys have whatever agenda that you're pursuing.
02:28:47.000 This is what I want to write.
02:28:49.000 And I have a way to get it out to my hopefully readership and build it that way.
02:28:53.000 Now, is this book, The Troop, is it out now?
02:28:56.000 Uh, yeah.
02:28:57.000 Yeah, it is.
02:28:58.000 When did it come out?
02:28:59.000 Because I got a pre-release copy.
02:29:00.000 Yeah, you got an arc of it.
02:29:01.000 Yeah, it came out a couple months ago.
02:29:03.000 Yeah, there it is.
02:29:04.000 There's a new cover, too.
02:29:05.000 They totally changed the cover.
02:29:06.000 Why'd they change the cover?
02:29:07.000 It looks darker.
02:29:08.000 It's just something that they do in publishing from time to time.
02:29:11.000 I'm not sure why either, but yeah, they made a big change of it.
02:29:15.000 So now it's just an isolated guy on a hilltop or something.
02:29:18.000 Well, I got the best one.
02:29:19.000 I like that one, too, with the...
02:29:23.000 That's the UK cover looks that way.
02:29:25.000 Oh, does it?
02:29:26.000 Yeah, with the birds and the lightning flashes.
02:29:28.000 I like it too. 1.00
02:29:30.000 God damn it, America! 0.99
02:29:32.000 I like the American cover, but yeah, it's totally different for sure. 0.99
02:29:35.000 Have you started writing a new one?
02:29:37.000 Yeah, the follow-up is, we did do that one for sure.
02:29:40.000 It's called The Deep, so it takes...
02:29:41.000 I love undersea stuff, man.
02:29:43.000 I love the ocean.
02:29:45.000 So it takes place at the bottom of the Marianne...
02:29:47.000 You know when James Cameron went down in that?
02:29:51.000 So, eight miles below the surface. 1.00
02:29:53.000 What a crazy fuck he is, huh? 1.00
02:29:54.000 I know! 1.00
02:29:54.000 He's a nut! 1.00
02:29:55.000 He's out of his mind. 1.00
02:29:56.000 He is out of his mind.
02:29:57.000 He's got billions of dollars.
02:29:58.000 Canadian, too, yeah. 1.00
02:29:58.000 Gets to the bottom of the ocean on a fucking boat. 1.00
02:30:01.000 Yeah, and just, you know, picks up. 0.99
02:30:03.000 There's nothing down there, either.
02:30:04.000 Isn't he like the first guy to ever do that too?
02:30:07.000 Yeah, he is.
02:30:07.000 He is.
02:30:07.000 And I don't know if you, I don't know about you, like claustrophobia is one thing that I'm not good with in tight spaces.
02:30:12.000 And if you saw what he went down in, it was basically like he had, you know, metal down this side to this side.
02:30:17.000 He basically went down in a coffin.
02:30:19.000 Yeah, I don't have a problem with tight spaces. 0.99
02:30:21.000 I do have a problem with tight spaces at the bottom of the fucking ocean, though. 0.98
02:30:25.000 How many miles deep is that? 0.98
02:30:27.000 Well, Challenger Deep is below the Marianas Trench, so that's eight miles.
02:30:31.000 And the pressure is something like seven jumbo jets pressing down on you per square foot.
02:30:36.000 So...
02:30:38.000 Yeah.
02:30:38.000 I feel like that...
02:30:40.000 See, I don't know about you.
02:30:41.000 What are you scared of?
02:30:42.000 That's interesting, are you?
02:30:44.000 Yeah, like...
02:30:44.000 Heights, animals.
02:30:45.000 A lot of it is animals. 0.99
02:30:47.000 I find with a kid now, I'm afraid of shit happening to my son or something. 0.98
02:30:51.000 That's a new thing. 0.98
02:30:52.000 That's the...
02:30:52.000 Look at this image that Jamie just pulled up.
02:30:54.000 There it is. 1.00
02:30:55.000 Jesus fucking Christ. 1.00
02:30:56.000 So there's Mount Everest. 1.00
02:30:58.000 That's the height of Mount Everest compared to the deepness of Challenger Deep.
02:31:02.000 Oh my God.
02:31:03.000 Yeah.
02:31:04.000 That's insane.
02:31:05.000 It is.
02:31:05.000 Eight miles down.
02:31:07.000 Eight miles down.
02:31:07.000 That's the deepest part of the ocean that we're aware of?
02:31:09.000 Is that what it is?
02:31:10.000 That we're aware of.
02:31:10.000 Yep.
02:31:11.000 There might be a spot somewhere that they haven't charted yet.
02:31:13.000 Oh, there could very well be.
02:31:14.000 Yeah, exactly.
02:31:15.000 But that's the deepest known depth. 0.99
02:31:18.000 Damn, that's deep. 0.99
02:31:20.000 Yeah. 1.00
02:31:21.000 That is so ridiculous. 0.94
02:31:23.000 But I figured, okay, well, I don't like tight spaces. 0.96
02:31:25.000 I don't like that pressure.
02:31:27.000 I don't like the dark.
02:31:27.000 Like, down there, darkness is.
02:31:29.000 I mean, I don't think it's like the darkness between the stars.
02:31:32.000 It's that dark.
02:31:33.000 It's probably a darkness that I don't know if I've ever grappled with.
02:31:35.000 So, yeah, for a horror book, it sort of has a lot of potential of things that scare the shit out of me.
02:31:40.000 And that's sort of where I got to start with. 0.53
02:31:42.000 Is it like a monster book?
02:31:43.000 No, not, no.
02:31:45.000 It's, uh...
02:31:46.000 Ghosts?
02:31:49.000 Aliens?
02:31:49.000 They're billing it as sort of like the abyss meets the shining.
02:31:53.000 So there is kind of that, you know, the shining being like...
02:31:56.000 It's almost like a haunted...
02:31:57.000 They've set up a research station down there, and it's another crew going down to figure out what the hell happened to the crew beforehand.
02:32:03.000 Ooh, I like it already.
02:32:04.000 Yeah, yeah.
02:32:05.000 How deep are you in?
02:32:06.000 I'm done.
02:32:07.000 It's all done.
02:32:08.000 When do I get it?
02:32:09.000 I will make sure you get a priority when the ARC comes out.
02:32:13.000 I'll get one shipped in to you guys.
02:32:14.000 When do you think it'll be done?
02:32:16.000 Well, I don't know.
02:32:17.000 I feel like they probably are going to do a few soon.
02:32:22.000 It's the year after, so basically it's January of next year.
02:32:26.000 But the ARCs will be out soon.
02:32:27.000 But do they, when you do something like that, like do you bring it to the publisher and the publisher gives notes?
02:32:33.000 Yes.
02:32:34.000 Yeah.
02:32:35.000 Basically, I got a two-book contract.
02:32:37.000 So I had already written the troupe, gave it to my agent.
02:32:39.000 My agent sent it in to the publisher.
02:32:40.000 They accepted it.
02:32:41.000 They say, well, we want another book too.
02:32:42.000 What's your idea?
02:32:43.000 I said, well, that's something to do with Down in the Ocean.
02:32:45.000 They said, good, sold.
02:32:46.000 So you write that one, and then you just send it to your editor, and he in this case, yeah, gave me all sorts of notes. 0.85
02:32:52.000 And you work on that, and you go back and forth, and then eventually at some point we say, we're fucking sick of this.
02:32:58.000 Are we done? 0.89
02:32:58.000 Yes, we're done. 0.89
02:33:00.000 That's interesting.
02:33:01.000 Now, who's qualified to give you notes like that?
02:33:04.000 How do you distinguish whether or not someone's qualified to give you notes, and do you often disagree with their notes?
02:33:10.000 Yes, because I guess you wouldn't have that, really.
02:33:14.000 I mean, you might have trusted people that you would deal with and say, well, what do you think of this bit?
02:33:18.000 I don't even do that.
02:33:19.000 No, no?
02:33:20.000 The audience does it.
02:33:21.000 Ah, that's right.
02:33:22.000 They're the most serious arbiter of things.
02:33:24.000 Yeah, they're the grand judge.
02:33:25.000 I do myself.
02:33:27.000 The beautiful thing about material is that you get to listen to it.
02:33:30.000 Like on my iPhone or my Note, my Galaxy Note 3 has...
02:33:35.000 I have it for like...
02:33:38.000 Maybe four or five months, and it might have...
02:33:42.000 150 sets on it.
02:33:44.000 Oh, wow.
02:33:44.000 Yeah.
02:33:45.000 And I can listen to all those sets.
02:33:47.000 And then sort of the audience reaction and gauge how it's worked.
02:33:50.000 So that's, yeah, that's a similar idea to an editor.
02:33:52.000 I mean, an editor relationship with a writer is pretty important, obviously, because the one thing is you can't go snatch your book off the shelves once it's there.
02:34:00.000 It's there.
02:34:00.000 You got to live with how it is.
02:34:02.000 So you got to work as hard as you can in this stage to make it as, I mean, it's never going to be perfect.
02:34:07.000 There's going to be things about it that you'll look at five years later and just go, what?
02:34:10.000 Why did I do that?
02:34:11.000 But each book, I think each book, probably just like each maybe one of your comedy CDs, is an expression of that time in your life, too.
02:34:17.000 And you've got to let it be that.
02:34:19.000 Well, there is that.
02:34:20.000 You know, out of the 150 sets, maybe 100 of them are from like a year ago that I've got stored.
02:34:27.000 Like I take the MP3s and I save them.
02:34:29.000 And then maybe 50 of them or so are over the last 50. I'll have four or five months.
02:34:34.000 And then what I'll do is never listen to the old ones, but always think that I'm going to, like a pack wrap, like a hold on to them.
02:34:42.000 But the most recent ones are the really important ones.
02:34:45.000 Like on this phone, this is a new phone.
02:34:48.000 It only has Santa Barbara.
02:34:49.000 It only has Friday night show in Santa Barbara.
02:34:52.000 That's it.
02:34:52.000 But eventually, you know, over the course of a few months, it'll have again, like a Wednesday night, I'm at the Ice House.
02:34:57.000 I'll have that set on it.
02:34:59.000 I'll listen to that.
02:35:00.000 Thursday, and I'll break out the notebook, and I'll listen to it with the headphones on, and then my next set, I'll add the notes, and then I'll try to figure out what I did differently, and then it'll grow.
02:35:11.000 But the beautiful thing about comedy is it has built-in editors, and it's the audience.
02:35:16.000 And also, you can.
02:35:17.000 There's no sense of it being on a shelf.
02:35:19.000 It evolves as you work the act over, and you work the act over, and it sort of becomes...
02:35:25.000 And we do that as much as we can.
02:35:27.000 That book probably went through seven or eight edits.
02:35:29.000 But at some point, you've got to just say, well, that's it.
02:35:31.000 We're on a schedule.
02:35:32.000 You can over-edit it, too.
02:35:34.000 You can sort of rip sort of the rawness, and I'm sure you can probably do that in a comedy act as well.
02:35:38.000 You can rip some of the stuff that is really most important.
02:35:42.000 If you take the rawness out of the rough edges, and you make it sort of smooth it over, and you listen to too many editors, then...
02:35:48.000 You can't please everybody.
02:35:50.000 I think that's another thing, too, I've recognized.
02:35:51.000 Do you lose it yourself?
02:35:52.000 Like, you lose your vision of what is good and what's bad?
02:35:55.000 Because I know as a comic, you certainly can.
02:35:57.000 Yeah.
02:35:58.000 You listen to a joke so many times, it means it's just a bunch of gobbledygook to you.
02:36:04.000 Totally.
02:36:05.000 Yeah, totally.
02:36:05.000 And that's, I guess that's a danger that we both face in our separate, you know, but very close, closely related kind of careers.
02:36:12.000 So it's about listening to the right.
02:36:14.000 And ultimately, it's like listening, because, especially with horror, you have someone, you know, I've had plenty of emails, and I know you have too, like, what kind of a person are you?
02:36:22.000 What kind?
02:36:22.000 I'm kind of an awful creature.
02:36:24.000 What sort of primordial swamp pit did you crawl out of to, you know, become who you are?
02:36:29.000 To come up with these ideas?
02:36:29.000 Yeah, yeah.
02:36:30.000 Did people get mad at you for your ideas?
02:36:31.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
02:36:33.000 You know, not nearly.
02:36:35.000 I mean, I'm not nearly in the public eye, say, as you are.
02:36:37.000 I wouldn't have to face that level of scrutiny, but certainly in my small way, yeah, of course.
02:36:41.000 I can make a tweet.
02:36:42.000 Just a joke.
02:36:43.000 Oh, and people will be bombarding you.
02:36:46.000 Oh, I'm sure, yeah.
02:36:47.000 Deep, long blogs.
02:36:48.000 Searching and...
02:36:49.000 Trying to find psychological cracks in your armor.
02:36:53.000 Yeah.
02:36:53.000 I wrote something.
02:36:54.000 I thought it was funny. 1.00
02:36:55.000 Go fuck yourself. 1.00
02:36:55.000 Yeah, you didn't think about it for more than like... 1.00
02:36:57.000 You know what I mean?
02:36:57.000 But at the same point, also, you don't recant and be like, oh, well, geez, I better change things because...
02:37:03.000 I wrote...
02:37:05.000 I watched this woman.
02:37:07.000 She was on a date.
02:37:08.000 She was talking about how much she hates children. 1.00
02:37:11.000 And I wrote on Twitter that I view women who don't like kids the same way I view dogs that like to eat their own shit. 1.00
02:37:21.000 That's going to get a reaction, Joe. 1.00
02:37:22.000 It leaves a lot of room for interpretation.
02:37:24.000 But this guy wrote a whole blog about that I only view women as being there to have children. 1.00
02:37:31.000 I'm like, where are you fucking getting this, man? 0.99
02:37:33.000 Yeah. 1.00
02:37:34.000 I fucked up. 0.99
02:37:34.000 I should have said hate instead of don't like. 0.99
02:37:36.000 Yeah.
02:37:37.000 I was trying to be nice.
02:37:38.000 Right.
02:37:38.000 You should have been more definitive.
02:37:40.000 It was just based on one particular...
02:37:43.000 And just this weird thing that I... Women who don't like kids, like, oh, get that kid away. 1.00
02:37:47.000 There's something gross about them. 0.70
02:37:49.000 It's a weird thing.
02:37:51.000 I find it very...
02:37:55.000 Not just distasteful.
02:37:56.000 It's a weird way.
02:37:58.000 It's disturbing.
02:37:59.000 It repels me.
02:38:00.000 When people, especially for whatever reason, women hate... 1.00
02:38:04.000 Well, men too now that I have kids.
02:38:06.000 I see a man who doesn't like kids, who hates kids.
02:38:09.000 And you think about all the abuse that some children suffer a lot of times because of people like that, that hate kids.
02:38:16.000 It becomes very disturbing to you.
02:38:18.000 Especially when you have kids of your own.
02:38:21.000 I'm totally fine with, like, I have friends who just don't want to have kids.
02:38:24.000 That's a different thing entirely.
02:38:25.000 Oh, totally different.
02:38:26.000 They're just like, we want to be able to travel.
02:38:28.000 I encourage that.
02:38:29.000 I mean, yeah, so do I. I love my son, and I know you love your kids too, but, you know, there's some points where me and my wife look at each other where, you know, I mean, I don't know if you had good sleepers, but me, like, our kid's a toddler now, and he still doesn't sleep well, but...
02:38:43.000 Man, there were times like four o'clock in the morning when he hadn't slept.
02:38:46.000 And I feel like I was just like, there was some hellish fourth dimension that had opened up that I was staring straight into.
02:38:52.000 And I just think, I think, but then that's part of the rites of passage of, of you, of you being a parent.
02:38:57.000 But, but if there's someone said, I want anything to do with that.
02:38:59.000 I'm like, I don't, I don't blame you, man.
02:39:01.000 Yeah, sure.
02:39:02.000 Go ahead.
02:39:02.000 Take a pass on this one.
02:39:04.000 We definitely went through periods where you didn't sleep, but.
02:39:08.000 I just don't think there's anything cool about shaming people that don't want to have children.
02:39:13.000 No, no.
02:39:14.000 And there's people that feel like that if they have children, you know, there's something special above and beyond a person who doesn't have children.
02:39:23.000 Like, you're never going to get it.
02:39:24.000 You didn't even grow up.
02:39:25.000 Yeah, there's that belittling side of it.
02:39:27.000 Like, oh, you really couldn't possibly understand what we're talking about here.
02:39:31.000 So it's like, oh, please.
02:39:31.000 This guy said this to me once.
02:39:33.000 This guy who was a...
02:39:38.000 Oh, yeah.
02:39:58.000 One of your kids in that jail.
02:40:00.000 The other one smokes crack. 0.99
02:40:02.000 You have criminals. 0.98
02:40:03.000 You have two criminals. 1.00
02:40:04.000 Your sons are fucking dangerous. 1.00
02:40:05.000 They are in the room. 1.00
02:40:06.000 I leave.
02:40:06.000 They haven't contributed anything to the forwarding of our species.
02:40:11.000 But in his mind, he was better. 0.99
02:40:14.000 He was better because he shot a live round to a woman and she shit out a kid. 1.00
02:40:19.000 Right. 0.99
02:40:20.000 Amazing, isn't it?
02:40:21.000 No.
02:40:22.000 But there's that holier-than-thou moral high ground that some people take when they have children.
02:40:27.000 I don't...
02:40:28.000 You can contribute an amazing amount to society without ever having a child.
02:40:32.000 I think just as much.
02:40:34.000 It's a different sort of contribution.
02:40:36.000 There's nothing wrong with it.
02:40:37.000 And I have a lot of friends that don't ever want to have kids, and they're great people, and I love them dearly.
02:40:43.000 And they love my kids.
02:40:44.000 They love your...
02:40:44.000 You know what I mean?
02:40:45.000 They love kids.
02:40:46.000 I think that's your thing.
02:40:47.000 It's like...
02:40:48.000 People who just...
02:40:49.000 I hate kids.
02:40:50.000 I hate the idea of kids. 0.98
02:40:51.000 I don't like seeing them on airplanes.
02:40:53.000 I don't like them in my airspace in any way, shape, or form. 0.92
02:40:56.000 Those people are creeps.
02:40:56.000 First of all, it's like, go live under a rock because I'm not taking my kid out into the sunlight because you don't like them nearby.
02:41:01.000 Well, are you a person?
02:41:02.000 Do you like people?
02:41:03.000 Yeah.
02:41:03.000 How do you think they came from?
02:41:05.000 They come from seeds, you fuck? 1.00
02:41:07.000 Somebody make them in a garden? 1.00
02:41:07.000 They just sort of pop into existence as, you know, 18-year-olds or something? 1.00
02:41:11.000 Yeah.
02:41:12.000 I just...
02:41:12.000 For whatever reason, I just think that there's some people out there that...
02:41:18.000 I can't make that connection, that like, oh, it's a baby and a baby becomes an adult.
02:41:23.000 I certainly get it a lot more now that I've had kids.
02:41:26.000 Like, I like babies.
02:41:28.000 Like, I see babies, I think they're cute. 0.99
02:41:30.000 When I used to see babies before, I had kids, I was like, oh, that fucking thing's gonna start screaming, I gotta get out of here. 0.98
02:41:35.000 But I never hated them. 0.98
02:41:36.000 No, no, exactly.
02:41:37.000 People that do hate them, I find them very disturbing.
02:41:40.000 And you've actually had people, I'm wondering if I've ever run into someone who, like, basically has said, point blank, I hate kids.
02:41:46.000 Oh, yeah.
02:41:47.000 Really?
02:41:47.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:41:49.000 Yeah.
02:41:49.000 There was a girl I dated who used to say that.
02:41:52.000 Just, I hate kids. 0.84
02:41:53.000 I can't stand them. 1.00
02:41:54.000 I hate kids. 0.98
02:41:54.000 I don't like to be around them. 0.98
02:41:55.000 They always want too much attention.
02:41:56.000 I was like, wow.
02:42:01.000 I mean, I didn't date her for long.
02:42:02.000 Yeah, sure. 1.00
02:42:03.000 But she was angry about a lot of shit. 1.00
02:42:05.000 I think her parents were alcoholics, too. 1.00
02:42:07.000 I think it might have been a little bit of that.
02:42:09.000 She just, I don't know.
02:42:11.000 Who knows?
02:42:12.000 Who does know?
02:42:13.000 Yeah, but I've never heard it, but I've had people who are pretty close to intolerant on that level as well, you know?
02:42:20.000 And I don't get it either, and I certainly, before I had kids, yeah, I'm more comfortable with them now, and I'm more, like, sympathetic towards other people who are struggling with their kid out in public.
02:42:30.000 I'm like, oh...
02:42:31.000 Don't you find too that as you're more comfortable just as a human being in life, you have some success under your belt, you're not...
02:42:38.000 I mean, even though there's no ultimate comfort because look, we're finite creatures on a finite planet and a finite solar system. 0.97
02:42:46.000 If you don't live in the moment, you're a fool because there really is no tomorrow.
02:42:51.000 Our crumbling edifice is, you know, it's only as good as it is today and it's not going to be as good tomorrow as it was today. 0.97
02:42:56.000 Apollo Creed in Rocky 2 nailed it.
02:43:00.000 Or 3. Yeah.
02:43:01.000 Three?
02:43:02.000 Four?
02:43:02.000 Which one was it?
02:43:03.000 There is no tomorrow.
02:43:04.000 I think he's gone by three.
02:43:06.000 Mr. T. Yeah.
02:43:08.000 No, he dies in four.
02:43:09.000 Oh, is it four? 1.00
02:43:10.000 The Russian knocks him out and kills him. 0.94
02:43:11.000 Remember? 0.99
02:43:12.000 Yes, that's the one.
02:43:13.000 In Rocky III, he doesn't want to train.
02:43:14.000 He's like, we'll train tomorrow.
02:43:16.000 There is no tomorrow!
02:43:18.000 There is no tomorrow! 1.00
02:43:20.000 And he teaches them how to fight like a black guy. 0.99
02:43:22.000 Yeah, that's right. 0.83
02:43:23.000 I do remember that.
02:43:23.000 Yeah, yeah.
02:43:24.000 But he's right.
02:43:25.000 There is no tomorrow.
02:43:26.000 There's now.
02:43:27.000 And now goes on for a long time, but it doesn't go on forever.
02:43:29.000 Yeah, absolutely.
02:43:29.000 And the only reason why you think it's tomorrow is because the earth is spinning.
02:43:32.000 You can market us tomorrow if you're really into that.
02:43:35.000 Oh, yeah.
02:43:36.000 The winter definitely does come, but there's no tomorrow.
02:43:38.000 There's just time.
02:43:39.000 Mm-hmm.
02:43:40.000 I mean, we have a way of measuring it, but it's really ultimately quite fruitless.
02:43:43.000 Yeah, I agree.
02:43:44.000 I agree.
02:43:45.000 But there's something about it where it becomes completely overwhelming for some people.
02:43:51.000 It defines their very existence.
02:43:54.000 The passage of time.
02:43:56.000 I mean, I wrote an article for Esquire and it was about, and you would have some knowledge of this basically because it's in MMA, is hormone replacement therapy or testosterone, TRT. And there's this study,
02:44:11.000 it's called negligible senescence.
02:44:14.000 Senescence?
02:44:14.000 Senescence, great word.
02:44:17.000 Senescence is what we're talking about.
02:44:20.000 Negligible senescence.
02:44:21.000 Yeah, S-E-N-E-S-C-E-N-C-E, I think. 1.00
02:44:26.000 There it is.
02:44:27.000 Negligible senescence.
02:44:28.000 And senescence is what you're talking about.
02:44:30.000 It's like our bodies just getting older and things sort of slowly, slowly crumbling.
02:44:35.000 And negligible senescence is the study of creatures who don't age the way that humans do.
02:44:41.000 Like tortoises.
02:44:42.000 That's exactly right.
02:44:42.000 Negligible senescence.
02:44:44.000 That's right.
02:44:44.000 If you look up negligible senescence, you see a turtle.
02:44:46.000 Yeah, that's right.
02:44:47.000 But look at the life they live. 1.00
02:44:48.000 It's shit. 1.00
02:44:48.000 It is quite shit. 1.00
02:44:50.000 Yeah. 1.00
02:44:50.000 Yeah. 1.00
02:44:51.000 Wander around. 1.00
02:44:52.000 Fucking birds pick their babies up and fly off with them. 1.00
02:44:56.000 It's perfect for a tortoise. 1.00
02:44:57.000 A tortoise doesn't know any different, I guess.
02:44:59.000 If they did, they'd hate it.
02:45:00.000 Yeah, they would probably be committing suicide.
02:45:02.000 So they would be cutting their life strings short that way.
02:45:05.000 But I think whales, certain whales have it.
02:45:07.000 Seagulls of all creatures.
02:45:09.000 Muscles.
02:45:10.000 Muscles.
02:45:10.000 Freshwater pearl muscles live to be 250 years old.
02:45:13.000 And they don't show this.
02:45:14.000 That's the thing.
02:45:15.000 It's like a five-year-old mussel acts the same as a 200-year-old mussel.
02:45:19.000 How about a quahog, a clam?
02:45:21.000 Do you know how old they get?
02:45:22.000 No.
02:45:23.000 507 years old is the oldest one they've found.
02:45:25.000 They can get that old.
02:45:26.000 Yep.
02:45:27.000 That'd be an enormous...
02:45:28.000 Tortoise, 255 years.
02:45:30.000 Lobsters, 100 plus years, assumably.
02:45:33.000 They don't really know.
02:45:33.000 Until they get, yeah, harvested.
02:45:34.000 How about a hydra?
02:45:35.000 You know what a hydra is?
02:45:36.000 No, it's kind of snake.
02:45:37.000 Biologically immortal.
02:45:39.000 Biologically immortal?
02:45:41.000 Immortal.
02:45:41.000 It's a genus of small, simple freshwater animals that possess radial symmetry.
02:45:47.000 A hydra, they're predatory animals belonging to the phylum...
02:45:52.000 Wow, spell this.
02:45:53.000 C-N? I don't know why you'd put a C and then an N together. 0.99
02:45:56.000 Yeah, that does not work well. 1.00
02:45:57.000 Did you run out of vowels, you fuck? 1.00
02:46:00.000 C-N-I-D-A-R-I-A. Oh, God. 1.00
02:46:07.000 And the class Hydrosa.
02:46:09.000 They can be found in most unpolluted freshwater ponds, lakes, and streams.
02:46:14.000 In the temperate and tropical regions and can be found gently sweeping a collecting net through weedy areas.
02:46:22.000 They are multicellular organisms which are usually a few meters long and are best studied with a microscope, but they are immortal.
02:46:31.000 That's amazing.
02:46:32.000 What an interesting, yeah, phenomenon.
02:46:34.000 I never would have thought that any creature... 1.00
02:46:35.000 Because they're alive shit. 1.00
02:46:36.000 Yeah, exactly. 1.00
02:46:37.000 They just squiggle around in the weeds.
02:46:39.000 Yeah, that's the punishment.
02:46:41.000 That would actually sort of be like, hell, yeah. 0.99
02:46:42.000 It's like reconstituted shitty child molesters become hydras in their next life. 1.00
02:46:48.000 They just get swooped up by fucking dirty fish. 1.00
02:46:53.000 Not immortal if a fish eats you. 1.00
02:46:56.000 But that's sort of the idea of TRT, is that the proponents say that, you know, you're not going to live forever.
02:47:02.000 Of course, that's not the body that we've been gifted by, you know, by nature.
02:47:07.000 But, you know, most, when you talk to guys, and I talk to guys, I use my father as, you know, my dad's 65, now 66. And he's like, I don't want to live forever, of course.
02:47:17.000 I just want to be able to be, to carry groceries up to my house when I'm 80. Yeah.
02:47:21.000 I want to have that sort of quality of life for as long as I can.
02:47:24.000 And then when that whole house comes down, let it come down immediately.
02:47:28.000 You know what I mean?
02:47:29.000 Well, that's wishful thinking.
02:47:30.000 It is wishful thinking.
02:47:31.000 Quite honestly.
02:47:31.000 Yeah.
02:47:31.000 But you certainly can manipulate your hormones to give you a decided advantage over non-manipulated people.
02:47:38.000 It becomes a real issue in mixed martial arts because...
02:47:40.000 Of course.
02:47:41.000 Brendan Schaub, who is on the podcast, The Fighter and the Kid, with my friend Brian Callan, he's a fighter in the UFC. And he said it best.
02:47:49.000 And he said, what's wrong with TRT when it comes to competitive sports is that there's an advantage of youth and there's an advantage of wisdom.
02:47:57.000 And wisdom comes with age and with experience and with years and years of study and practice.
02:48:02.000 And that advantage...
02:48:05.000 Sort of, in some way, there's sort of a point of diminishing returns where it cancels out youth and experience.
02:48:11.000 Whether it's at 35 or whether it's at 37. When does it tip back towards youth again?
02:48:18.000 Well, when you start supplementing the hormones with testosterone, it doesn't. 0.82
02:48:22.000 And then you get guys like Vitor Belfort who are 36, 37 years old fucking everybody up because they've got muscles in their teeth now. 0.99
02:48:30.000 He's a beast. 0.99
02:48:30.000 Because he's taking testosterone. 0.99
02:48:31.000 But what about like Dan Henderson?
02:48:33.000 See, I feel like that's one where he's, like, forced to go into, like, wars with guys who are 15, even 20 years younger than him, and I feel like, you know what I mean?
02:48:44.000 But then, you know, the people that I grew up watching as boxers didn't, you know, you just had to keep throwing yourself into that fray, and if your body's collapsing around you, that's the choice that you've made.
02:48:54.000 Well, he's not on testosterone anymore.
02:48:56.000 Oh, he was?
02:48:57.000 Okay, yeah, yeah, okay.
02:48:58.000 They've abolished it.
02:48:59.000 It's no longer allowed in the UFC? No longer allowed.
02:49:01.000 And most athletic commissions, even worldwide, have ceased the use of it.
02:49:05.000 Brazil stopped it.
02:49:07.000 So it becomes really fucking interesting, especially in Brazil, because in Brazil you can buy steroids in a lot of stores. 0.91
02:49:14.000 You can buy them over-the-counter like you can in Mexico. 0.97
02:49:16.000 Oh, okay.
02:49:17.000 You don't have to have prescriptions.
02:49:18.000 I don't know if they've changed that in Brazil.
02:49:20.000 I know they have it in Mexico. 1.00
02:49:21.000 In Mexico, people go and buy, like, fucking Viagra. 1.00
02:49:24.000 They go buy Percocets. 1.00
02:49:25.000 They go buy all kinds of shit. 1.00
02:49:26.000 It's the Wild West down there, for sure. 1.00
02:49:28.000 In a lot of ways.
02:49:28.000 Yeah, yeah.
02:49:29.000 But they just have different regulations when it comes to pharmaceutical drugs and steroids.
02:49:36.000 But in the UFC, you cannot have testosterone replacement.
02:49:40.000 No one can have it anymore.
02:49:42.000 So it's really interesting also because these people that have been taking it for X amount of years, they've depleted their system.
02:49:49.000 They've sort of shut their own endogenous production down.
02:49:53.000 I think there's too many negatives to it.
02:49:57.000 There's too many negatives to it as far as for athletic competition.
02:50:00.000 And one of the big ones is I have Dr. Mark Gordon, who's a friend of mine, who is an expert on traumatic brain injury.
02:50:06.000 And he says one of the big issues is you have to find out what is it that's causing this depletion of their natural source of testosterone.
02:50:13.000 Is it just old age?
02:50:14.000 Which is one possibility.
02:50:16.000 Another possibility is traumatic brain injury.
02:50:19.000 And that's cutting their testosterone production? 0.93
02:50:21.000 Absolutely.
02:50:22.000 Well, he scared the fuck out of me, man.
02:50:24.000 His take on traumatic brain injury is so studied, and he's been involved in assisting football players and athletes of- Concussions.
02:50:34.000 Yeah, a lot of them who have had really dramatic changes because of head trauma.
02:50:40.000 And the way he describes it, it's like, you never know what it's going to be that does it.
02:50:44.000 It could be, you go jet skiing one day, and you know, just the bouncing on the water, and something's wrong in your brain, and then your body shuts down its testosterone, your libido drops, you feel depressed.
02:50:55.000 And you're not aware of it, you just feel like...
02:50:56.000 You feel depressed.
02:50:57.000 The bottom dropped out of me here somehow.
02:50:59.000 Yeah, and you go to the doctor, I'm depressed, they put you on antidepressants.
02:51:01.000 I mean, it's like, And what he's finding is that the pituitary gland is incredibly sensitive to trauma.
02:51:06.000 And so, obviously, when you're dealing with a sport that one of the big goals is to shut the brain down with impacts, with a strike, Giving them testosterone so that it negates the effects of brain trauma sort of just masks the real issue that's going on.
02:51:28.000 So it's not as simple as their body getting older and they need testosterone to live a nice quality of life. 0.96
02:51:35.000 It's a matter of medication that sort of overrides this issue where they're getting their brain fucked up. 0.99
02:51:42.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.97
02:51:44.000 So I think, and I also think there's too much possibility of cheating.
02:51:49.000 Yeah, I think there's that too.
02:51:50.000 I mean, I interviewed, what's it, Keith Kaiser?
02:51:53.000 Yes.
02:51:54.000 And he basically said the same thing.
02:51:56.000 It's just not...
02:51:57.000 And so, you know, of course, my editor wanted me to look at the sports side of a thing, and I did, and I think there was some really interesting stuff to be found on that side of it.
02:52:05.000 And I come down on your side too.
02:52:06.000 I mean, just like, we've been having combat sport events since...
02:52:12.000 Yeah, I mean, of course, you don't want to...
02:52:14.000 Some people would say, well, listen, we also fix MCLs and ACLs and we're able to do great things with medicine.
02:52:20.000 So, you know what I mean?
02:52:22.000 Like, why not take the advancement, these benefits that we have...
02:52:28.000 Yeah.
02:52:30.000 Yeah.
02:52:33.000 Yeah.
02:52:48.000 You know, I wouldn't, like I more or less said, if my dad wanted to use it, I would be like, listen, if it works, and if you try it, you know what I mean?
02:52:57.000 You know, when it makes some benefit to your life, you know, I'd be like, of course, I'd be all for it.
02:53:02.000 It's really the tip of the iceberg when it comes to manipulating the human body.
02:53:06.000 It's essentially a low-level form of genetic engineering.
02:53:09.000 Mm-hmm.
02:53:09.000 And what you're going to be able to do instead of introducing these synthetic hormones into your system, what you're going to be able to do is they're going to have nanobots that repair tissue.
02:53:19.000 They're going to have your body's ability to recuperate.
02:53:22.000 A lot of people don't understand what hormones do and the various different roles that they play in your body, but a hormone doesn't necessarily make you bigger.
02:53:32.000 What makes you bigger is it makes you, when you take testosterone, it makes you recover quicker.
02:53:38.000 And one of the ways guys can cheat is that they can work harder and they can put in more time because their recovery is shorter.
02:53:46.000 Yeah.
02:53:50.000 Yeah.
02:54:04.000 So that's considered cheating.
02:54:06.000 I agree. 0.99
02:54:07.000 But one day they're going to have fucking mailmen who are on these nanobots. 0.99
02:54:12.000 Yeah, that's right. 0.99
02:54:13.000 Some form of genetic engineering.
02:54:15.000 It's like the same mailman for 300 years.
02:54:17.000 That's another thing I did.
02:54:19.000 There's a guy, Aubrey de Grey.
02:54:20.000 Yes, I know that guy.
02:54:21.000 Right, okay.
02:54:21.000 So he basically just says that your whole body can be replaced.
02:54:24.000 He says, look at it like a car.
02:54:27.000 But I feel like there was some part of me that thought, just as a fiction writer, like...
02:54:31.000 I don't know if I'd want to see a 2,000-year-old person.
02:54:33.000 What would they smell like?
02:54:34.000 What would they smell like?
02:54:35.000 They had like old, papery flesh. 1.00
02:54:37.000 What if they were hot as fuck? 1.00
02:54:38.000 What if they looked like Jenna Jameson in their prime, but they smelled like Barbara Walters? 1.00
02:54:42.000 Just like you couldn't get rid of the smell.
02:54:44.000 That sensory kind of would just be too weird, yeah.
02:54:48.000 We're running out of time here.
02:54:49.000 That would be something that you would really have to think about, man.
02:54:52.000 If we get to a point where people are immortal, there's going to be that thing where they're like...
02:54:58.000 They go, is there a next?
02:55:01.000 Should I just let this die off?
02:55:03.000 And there's going to be people that do decide to just...
02:55:05.000 To just keep going and going.
02:55:06.000 But I feel like you'd lose all your family and friends.
02:55:09.000 Maybe, unless they're honest.
02:55:10.000 Yeah, you're all 2,000-year-old.
02:55:12.000 You get annoyed with each other for eternity.
02:55:13.000 Yeah, exactly.
02:55:15.000 Listen, man, this is a fascinating conversation.
02:55:17.000 I really enjoyed it.
02:55:18.000 Thank you very much for having me, Joe.
02:55:19.000 Let me know when your new book comes out.
02:55:20.000 What is it called again?
02:55:21.000 The Deep.
02:55:21.000 The Deep.
02:55:22.000 It's just like that movie with Nick Nolte.
02:55:24.000 It is, yeah.
02:55:24.000 The title's been used before, but it's a different thing.
02:55:27.000 Well, not entirely, but there's differences.
02:55:29.000 And when can I get a copy of that?
02:55:31.000 I will make sure you...
02:55:33.000 Let's say six months at the most.
02:55:36.000 Six months from now.
02:55:38.000 Mark it down.
02:55:39.000 All right.
02:55:39.000 Thank you, brother.
02:55:40.000 It was a lot of fun.
02:55:41.000 No, my pleasure.
02:55:41.000 Thank you very much, Joe.
02:55:42.000 And the book is called The Troop, and his name is not really Nick Cutter.
02:55:48.000 His name is Craig Davidson.
02:55:50.000 So if you like Nick Cutter's work...
02:55:53.000 Two Ts. 0.95
02:55:54.000 Why'd you go with two Ts? 0.99
02:55:55.000 You didn't want to be cuter?
02:55:56.000 Oh, because my agent...
02:55:58.000 That's the only way.
02:55:59.000 Nick Cuter, yeah.
02:56:00.000 That worked in a different way, yeah.
02:56:02.000 Yeah.
02:56:02.000 Your agent came up with Nick Cutter?
02:56:04.000 We both came up with it.
02:56:06.000 He thought like, oh, they need to have like a hard driving kind of like Nick, you know.
02:56:10.000 Nick Cutter.
02:56:11.000 Bob Slasher.
02:56:12.000 That's right.
02:56:13.000 My name's Nick Cutter.
02:56:15.000 I'm Nick Cutter.
02:56:16.000 Smoked Marlboros, no filters. 0.96
02:56:18.000 I cut them off and I spit them at liberals. 0.96
02:56:20.000 All right. 0.91
02:56:21.000 Thanks, dude.
02:56:21.000 A lot of fun.
02:56:22.000 Thank you very much.
02:56:22.000 Buy the book, folks.
02:56:23.000 I appreciate it.
02:56:23.000 It's available right now on Amazon.com, but you will not get this cover.
02:56:26.000 Yeah, it's actually on sale now.
02:56:27.000 Do you have an audiobook version?
02:56:28.000 Yeah, an audiobook version as well.
02:56:30.000 Aha! 0.94
02:56:31.000 Beautiful. 1.00
02:56:31.000 Go get it, you fucks. 1.00
02:56:33.000 And thanks to our sponsors. 0.99
02:56:34.000 Thanks to Ting.
02:56:35.000 Go to rogan.ting.com.
02:56:37.000 Get yourself an awesome cell phone and save $25 off of it.
02:56:40.000 Thanks also to 1-800-Flowers.com.
02:56:43.000 Today only, Tuesday, May 6th, you can buy 18 vibrant multicolored roses and get a free glass vase for $29.99 and for just $10 more, two dozen roses, a glass vase, and a delicious box of chocolates.
02:57:00.000 How can you go wrong?
02:57:01.000 You cannot!
02:57:02.000 Go to 1-800-Flowers.com and enter in J-R-E or call 1-800-Flowers and mention J-R-E. Thanks also to Onnit.com.
02:57:11.000 That's O-N-N-I-T. Use the code word ROGAN and save 10% off any and all supplements.
02:57:18.000 Tomorrow we'll be back with Tim Kennedy, mixed martial arts superstar and fascinating individual.
02:57:25.000 And then we've got a lot of podcasts coming up, folks. 0.99
02:57:29.000 A lot of good shit. 0.98
02:57:30.000 Alright, much love. 0.99
02:57:30.000 See you soon. 0.99
02:57:31.000 Big kiss.
02:57:32.000 Thank you.