The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #498 - Aubrey Marcus

00:00:08.000 Hey everybody.

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00:02:14.000 We are also brought to you by Onnit.com.

00:02:16.000 That's O-N-N-I-T. One of the new things that we've added to Onnit that's really pretty cool and fascinating is we have a gang of motivational, a gang of instructional videos, of blogs,

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00:02:54.000 Onnit is a human optimization website.

00:02:58.000 Aubrey started this website.

00:03:01.000 Aubrey's here, by the way.

00:03:02.000 What's up?

00:03:03.000 Talking about him like he ain't even here.

00:03:04.000 Started this website...

00:03:07.000 With this idea and this mindset of creating something that we would wish was there for us.

00:03:13.000 Selling things that we would use, selling things that we do use, and stuff that we used long before we ever became involved in the company.

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00:03:52.000 but we are hoping that these laws are changing, and it seems to be they're changing pretty quickly.

00:03:57.000 It seems like the house of cards has fallen down on the whole...

00:04:10.000 We're good to go.

00:04:18.000 Hopefully before it goes away even, we'll be able to buy our hemp from America.

00:04:23.000 Right now we have to buy it from Canada. 0.97

00:04:25.000 It's the most ridiculous thing ever. 0.68

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00:04:47.000 But the Onnit Academy is really fascinating. 0.99

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00:05:43.000 Yeah, it's really good.

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00:06:52.000 All right.

00:06:52.000 Aubrey Marcus is back from Peru.

00:06:56.000 He was riding the wizard's tail.

00:06:59.000 And he's got stories for us.

00:07:02.000 Uh-oh.

00:07:02.000 Here we go.

00:07:03.000 Hit it.

00:07:04.000 Check it out!

00:07:05.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:07:08.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

00:07:12.000 Out of all my friends that have done drugs.

00:07:20.000 Almost all of them have.

00:07:21.000 You're the most dedicated at these return visits to exotic locations for mind expanding, horizon expanding experiences.

00:07:32.000 And you're back again.

00:07:34.000 I'm back.

00:07:35.000 You plan these out how far in advance?

00:07:38.000 Yeah, this one, sometimes it's a long time.

00:07:41.000 Sometimes something just comes up.

00:07:42.000 And this time was one of those times.

00:07:45.000 An acquaintance who I met through actually the Aboga world, he had gone down here and done this Wachuma experience, which is the original way that you describe San Pedro before it got Catholicized from the missionaries who came in and freaked out that the native people were doing these ceremonies with this San Pedro cactus,

00:08:04.000 which is what we call it.

00:08:05.000 But it originally comes from this 4,000-year-old recipe from the Shavin people, which was like the peak of pre-Andean consciousness.

00:08:14.000 And so I heard about these ceremonies going on, and I hadn't had any experience with that medicine. 0.99

00:08:19.000 And I was like, fuck it, I'm in. 0.97

00:08:21.000 You know, I got to explore this, see what this looks like, see what this unique tool is good for. 0.99

00:08:26.000 So San Pedro is peyote.

00:08:30.000 Peyote is mescaline.

00:08:31.000 Peyote is a different cactus.

00:08:32.000 Really?

00:08:33.000 So peyote's a different cactus, similarly related in mechanism of action, but it's a little bit sterner.

00:08:33.000 Yeah.

00:08:41.000 It's a little bit harsher.

00:08:42.000 They describe the difference.

00:08:43.000 You know, if one's going to whack you on the head, peyote's more of a hammer, and San Pedro's more of a heavy feather.

00:08:50.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:08:51.000 Like a wiffle bat.

00:08:52.000 But it can be pretty intense work, too, as I'll describe.

00:08:57.000 Yeah.

00:08:58.000 Yeah, slightly different cactuses.

00:09:00.000 And obviously the peyote came up through the North American tradition more frequently, and then the San Pedro huachuma was carried on through the South American tradition.

00:09:10.000 So this place that you're going to in Peru, is this like a center?

00:09:10.000 Wow.

00:09:16.000 Is this an organized, regular place that people go to?

00:09:20.000 I didn't know that there was these places online that are like Yelp for ayahuasca retreats.

00:09:25.000 I mean, rate them with stars.

00:09:27.000 I mean, it's so bizarre.

00:09:29.000 Someone sent me a tweet saying, you know, something about because of your spreading the word, you know, look at all these different things that are out there.

00:09:37.000 So I click on the link.

00:09:38.000 I'm like, all right, what is this? 0.93

00:09:40.000 It's like fucking 50 different ayahuasca retreats that all have websites, and they're all yelped and reviewed, and five-star, four-star. 0.99

00:09:49.000 It's fucking crazy. 0.98

00:09:50.000 You need these kind of review systems, especially if they're of integrity, because this is pretty powerful medicine. 0.98

00:09:57.000 You're dealing with internal processes that are very intense.

00:10:00.000 Ayahuasca alone is a very powerful MAOI, which can interact with a lot of things with your health, but it's also dealing with very deep spiritual...

00:10:09.000 You know, issues, traumas that you may have, things like that.

00:10:12.000 So getting a really good shaman, a real master, is so key.

00:10:17.000 So having good review systems and really even better is knowing people that have been there and talking to people from experience and finding them that way because they're popping up just to make money.

00:10:28.000 And just because you're a shaman and just because you have ayahuasca doesn't mean you have any integrity at all.

00:10:33.000 Yeah, Amber Lyon was telling us about a shaman that was feeling her up.

00:10:35.000 Yep.

00:10:36.000 Yep.

00:10:37.000 Then there's all kinds of crazy stories like that.

00:10:39.000 I mean, shamans just charge the money, give you the brew, which is a brew maybe they didn't even make it themselves.

00:10:45.000 They just bought it in a market.

00:10:47.000 Maybe they put a bunch of toei, which is datura, in there.

00:10:51.000 And so you're getting more of like that Batman 1 hallucination instead of the...

00:10:56.000 Instead of like a really powerful DMT experience, there's a lot of things that are going on there that are not great.

00:11:02.000 But if you get to a real ayahuasquero and a real center with really good medicine, Obviously, as I've described in previous journeys, it can be incredibly powerful.

00:11:12.000 So this is your newest, your latest.

00:11:14.000 You're just back from it.

00:11:15.000 Yeah.

00:11:15.000 You just returned how long ago?

00:11:17.000 A week.

00:11:17.000 A week ago.

00:11:18.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:11:19.000 How fucked up were you? 1.00

00:11:21.000 As fucked up in the most beautiful way possible. 1.00

00:11:25.000 I mean, this to me, this was the one. 0.99

00:11:27.000 This is the one.

00:11:28.000 This was the one.

00:11:29.000 This was the single greatest thing for me that I've done.

00:11:32.000 And I've done, you know, I've told all these stories.

00:11:34.000 The ayahuasca, the aboga, riding the back of a dragon, seeing the flotillas of snakes popping into the eighth dimension, doing, you know, exploring this advent calendar of past souls on aboga.

00:11:46.000 All of these crazy stories.

00:11:47.000 Nothing was as dramatically, positively impactful as this experience down there.

00:11:53.000 And it was a combination not only of the medicine, but of the integrity of the place and, of course, being held by Gandalf the White Wizard himself, which was something I was surprised at.

00:12:04.000 You know, I expected him.

00:12:05.000 I didn't have any expectations, really.

00:12:07.000 And I was really just blown away by what they had.

00:12:09.000 What do you mean by Gandalf the White Wizard himself?

00:12:11.000 Like, you actually met Gandalf?

00:12:12.000 If there was a Gandalf, like, if that myth, I hung out with him for eight days, and he's my homeboy.

00:12:18.000 So, is this something...

00:12:21.000 I'm not sure if you're joking around.

00:12:24.000 Did you actually have hallucinations that you were hanging out with Gandalf?

00:12:27.000 No, just describing that kind of benevolent, friendly, slightly humorous archetype.

00:12:33.000 Someone who has access to great power but can just sit around and...

00:12:37.000 And, you know, smoke a pipe with you and tell stories.

00:12:40.000 Or when he's timed for work, you know, he can step up and do some pretty amazing things, as I'll kind of probably get through into the story.

00:12:48.000 But it just really follows that archetype, you know, to a T. Obviously, no direct links to Gandalf.

00:12:56.000 So, explain.

00:12:58.000 Like, you take this stuff, and when you take it, what is, like, how long does it take before it kicks in?

00:13:04.000 Sure.

00:13:04.000 And what is it similar to?

00:13:07.000 Yeah, well, I'll tell the whole story in succession here, and we'll get to it.

00:13:12.000 The first part of any of these medicine journeys is you set your intent to do it.

00:13:16.000 And then once that happens, the process already begins.

00:13:19.000 You can talk to a lot of the different teachers about this.

00:13:21.000 As soon as you set your intent to do some of this work, some stuff starts to come up.

00:13:26.000 And there'll be...

00:13:27.000 You know, some of your dark material that'll start to come up as if it's almost getting ready to surface.

00:13:32.000 And then there'll be a serious amount of resistance.

00:13:35.000 Like what Steven Pressfield says, when you go from something, you know, something lower to a higher place, there's going to be intense resistance. 0.95

00:13:43.000 And for me, it was the fact that I was going down to the lower Amazon in rainy season, which means there's going to be fucking mosquitoes everywhere. 0.98

00:13:51.000 And I hate mosquitoes. 0.97

00:13:53.000 And I'm a bit paranoid about things like malaria.

00:13:55.000 So it freaked me out.

00:13:57.000 And I almost canceled like the last minute.

00:13:59.000 But ultimately, looking back, you see that that was like, that was my resistance.

00:14:04.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:14:05.000 And that's going to come up for everybody. 0.99

00:14:07.000 Anybody listening who sets their intent to do this, you're going to find at the 11th hour some serious resistance, some fear, some material that's going to come up that's going to tell you, nah, don't do this shit. 0.99

00:14:16.000 But that's normal. 0.99

00:14:17.000 You can heed it or not.

00:14:19.000 Life is a series of choices.

00:14:20.000 But expect resistance to come for that.

00:14:23.000 Yeah.

00:14:38.000 So when I got there into Peru, I was seriously ready for something.

00:14:44.000 And I didn't know what.

00:14:45.000 I didn't really do that much research on the Huachuma, honestly.

00:14:48.000 Usually I really read trip reports.

00:14:50.000 I go to a place like Arrowhead and I look and I read. 0.99

00:14:52.000 And I didn't really know shit. 0.94

00:14:53.000 I just knew I was going down there and I was like, whatever. 0.96

00:14:56.000 Something good is hopefully going to happen.

00:14:59.000 But I was still, you know, I arrived there, so you get into, go into Lima, spent the night in Lima, take the flight into Iquitos.

00:15:06.000 And Iquitos is one of the largest cities that has no roads to it.

00:15:11.000 The only way to get to Iquitos is by plane or by boat.

00:15:14.000 So it's kind of an interesting place, but like many of these- How many people live there?

00:15:17.000 500,000.

00:15:19.000 Whoa! 0.71

00:15:19.000 Yeah. 0.71

00:15:20.000 500,000 people and there's no roads?

00:15:22.000 Uh-uh.

00:15:23.000 And it's like a jungle town. 1.00

00:15:25.000 There's a lot of what you would call in Thailand, you call them tuk-tuks, those little bikes that have a big backseat, motorized bikes, and just kind of a sprawling, really dirty, stinky place. 1.00

00:15:37.000 So you cruise through that place, and then we met up with Don Howard, who runs the center down there, the Spirit Quest Center.

00:15:45.000 He's got the long white hair and a big friendly smile.

00:15:48.000 So as soon as I saw him, I was like, okay.

00:15:50.000 American?

00:15:51.000 So he's Kentucky-born, the grandson of a root doctor, a Kentucky root doctor, which is like an old natural medicine doctor, and a half Native American as well.

00:15:51.000 Yeah.

00:16:01.000 So his journey, just to talk briefly about it, I learned kind of on the boat ride, because we hop in a boat to go to the center, because his center's on 200 acres in the jungle that he's been preserving.

00:16:12.000 So his journey, at 19, he got called to start working with peyote, and went and did the kind of traditional Native American, as with his ancestry, that kind of path.

00:16:22.000 To do peyote ceremonies for about 20 years, both with himself and with, you know, leading other people.

00:16:29.000 And then he got called to go down to South America and start working with the San Pedro cactus, the Huachuma, and got kind of initiated into the Chavin way, which is C-H-A-V-I-N, and understood, you know, kind of the old recipes, the old ways that they used to make the medicine, 0.94

00:16:44.000 and not only with the Huachuma, but the Vilca.

00:16:47.000 Which is the second medicine that we did. 0.99

00:16:50.000 And the Vilca is the most potent DMT experience on the fucking planet. 0.95

00:16:55.000 Like nothing else, and I've done many of the other ways, can come close to that. 0.95

00:17:00.000 It's a combination of NN-DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, and bufotinine.

00:17:06.000 And you snuff it through your nose.

00:17:08.000 But I'll go through that story. 0.99

00:17:09.000 That was kind of the grand fucking finale of this whole thing. 0.97

00:17:11.000 And it launches you... 0.98

00:17:14.000 So much farther than even ayahuasca or anything else that I've done.

00:17:18.000 So he got called to start working with those medicines along with ayahuasca down in the jungle and had been doing that for 30 years.

00:17:24.000 So he'd had 50 years of experience working with these plant medicines.

00:17:28.000 And as you can imagine, that's a long time to...

00:17:31.000 You know, to be on the path and just be following, trying to heal as many people as possible and show them the medicine.

00:17:39.000 So awesome guy and someone that usually with these shamans, they don't speak English.

00:17:44.000 So you kind of get a vibe from them and then you do the medicine and it's all kind of magic. 0.95

00:17:49.000 With him, you know, not only is he leading the ceremony in that way, You can just sit around and bullshit with him. 0.99

00:17:56.000 Talk to him about crazy females that tried to take him to the dark side and all kinds of these stories that you would find from a guy like if you're hanging out with Gandalf in the fucking Shire and eating supper and smoking his crazy dragon pipe. 0.98

00:18:11.000 It had that kind of feel to it when you get there. 0.99

00:18:15.000 So I get in.

00:18:15.000 I get into the jungle and it's a really beautiful place.

00:18:18.000 The ceremonial hut has ayahuasca vines that are growing along the hut and encircling the whole hut, which is pretty amazing to see.

00:18:27.000 And then everything is all screened in.

00:18:29.000 It's kind of like a nice rustic wood.

00:18:31.000 As I said, it's on 200 acres.

00:18:33.000 So we go into this screened-in place, but I'm still extra paranoid, so I set up my mosquito net, and I'm completely doused in bug spray, just wet with bug spray, because I'm still super paranoid.

00:18:44.000 So we get in there and end up talking, go through the initiation, get to a pretty good degree of comfort, and we're going to do the medicine the next day.

00:18:52.000 And that night, I was just...

00:18:54.000 I couldn't sleep at all.

00:18:55.000 I was exhausted, but I still couldn't sleep because I was just so concerned about it.

00:18:59.000 Like, a lot of stuff was coming up for me.

00:19:00.000 A lot of emotions and stuff.

00:19:02.000 And worry about these bugs and this malaria thing.

00:19:05.000 Which was made worse by, of course, another kind of test that came up.

00:19:09.000 Somebody who was there said, Oh, did you hear about those two cases of malaria that just showed up recently?

00:19:14.000 I was like... 0.99

00:19:14.000 Why do you gotta fucking tell me that? 0.99

00:19:16.000 All the things. 0.99

00:19:17.000 You volunteer that information?

00:19:19.000 But of course, that's what came up.

00:19:21.000 So that was an opportunity for me to really work on these fears and paranoias, which for me, my greatest fear is that fear of suffering.

00:19:27.000 Some fear of some illness that I wouldn't be able to beat.

00:19:31.000 You know, death, I'd seen in my other experiences what the other side kind of Felt like, and I was like, well, that would suck.

00:19:37.000 I don't want to die.

00:19:38.000 I obviously have a lot of stuff to do, and I love life.

00:19:40.000 Life's amazing.

00:19:41.000 I have a lot of stuff to do.

00:19:43.000 Yeah.

00:19:44.000 But the fear of suffering, I never really kicked that fear. 0.93

00:19:48.000 So I was just sitting there, and finally, like, four in the morning, the jungle's just loud as shit anyway. 0.97

00:19:53.000 Just the cicadas. 0.89

00:19:55.000 And, you know, birds and these crazy other jungle rodents that are in the trees making honking noises and all kinds of stuff.

00:20:04.000 I mean, really, really loud, I think.

00:20:06.000 And are you, like, the hut that you're in, does it have open windows?

00:20:10.000 Yeah, so it's all just screened-in windows.

00:20:13.000 So it's wide open to the jungle, and we're just nestled in the jungle. 0.96

00:20:16.000 So when you go to the bathroom and you turn the light on, you find giant fucking things crawling on the windows and stuff? 0.95

00:20:22.000 On the outside part, hopefully not on the inside part, because they haven't got through the screens. 0.97

00:20:26.000 But yeah, anything attracted to the light will be kind of stuck to the screen door looking at you. 1.00

00:20:31.000 Big ass, fucking dog-sized bugs. 1.00

00:20:34.000 Right. 1.00

00:20:35.000 You're in the jungle.

00:20:37.000 And everything was nice.

00:20:38.000 No hot water.

00:20:39.000 No showers in the room.

00:20:40.000 But everything else was pretty nice.

00:20:42.000 No, obviously, air or heat or anything.

00:20:44.000 So anyways, four in the morning.

00:20:46.000 I'm draped in this mosquito net.

00:20:48.000 And I finally get this idea in my head.

00:20:52.000 And the phrase, trust the mud, comes into my head.

00:20:55.000 It's just like, just trust the mud.

00:20:57.000 And with that final thought, I was able to finally get some sleep.

00:21:01.000 Trust the mud.

00:21:02.000 Trust the mud.

00:21:02.000 And I guess to me that was just a metaphor of the mud being the jungle itself, you know, and the mud being what's me, you know, what's inside me, this flesh, this life, this everything all being connected.

00:21:15.000 Just trust it.

00:21:17.000 Trust the mud. 0.99

00:21:17.000 Trust that it's not going to fuck me up. 0.99

00:21:19.000 Trust that some mosquito's not going to come in or some millipede's not going to crawl up my butthole and sting me and I'm never going to shit again. 1.00

00:21:26.000 Whatever other fears that I had. 1.00

00:21:27.000 And you hear these stories too, like don't pee in the water because then this fish will crawl up your urethra and spread its spines and explode your dick. 1.00

00:21:36.000 It does happen. 1.00

00:21:37.000 No, it does happen.

00:21:38.000 So you have all of these crazy, scary stuff that you hear about this, and you can really freak yourself out doing that. 1.00

00:21:44.000 But again, so finally, four in the morning, say, trust the mud, fuck it. 0.99

00:21:48.000 I'm going to go through with this. 1.00

00:21:51.000 Next day, wake up feeling a little better, but I feel like a sick person.

00:21:55.000 You know when you go to the doctor and you're super healthy and you're going to get your blood drawn?

00:21:58.000 You get that kind of anticipation before the prick, you know, of the needle prick.

00:22:02.000 It's like, ah, it's gonna... 0.94

00:22:03.000 For me, I was like, I just fucking need this so bad.

00:22:05.000 Like, I wasn't even nervous before doing this new, completely new psychedelic, which is crazy unusual. 0.65

00:22:11.000 Anytime, even if I take, like, a small dose of mushrooms, you get those butterflies in your stomach, like... 0.96

00:22:16.000 Oh shit, I'm about to jump. 0.98

00:22:17.000 I didn't even have that. 1.00

00:22:19.000 I just felt like a sick person going to get some medicine.

00:22:22.000 So we get in there to the ceremonial hut and laid out is what's called the Masada.

00:22:26.000 And that's a key part of the Wachuma ceremony is this kind of mesa that they set up.

00:22:32.000 And on it is these six skulls, three female shamans, three male shamans.

00:22:39.000 They're actual human skulls and set up.

00:22:42.000 And then there's jaguar skulls and then there's artifacts spanning all the way back to Shavin, which is 4,000 years old.

00:22:48.000 There's a piece of the moon that's on this altar and How'd they get a piece of the moon?

00:22:53.000 In doing the medicine, you interact with a lot of people who've done and collected a variety of things.

00:23:00.000 And one of the things after you're done is you feel compelled to give something back for what you've received.

00:23:07.000 So a lot of these, most of these are just gifts that have been accumulated over 50 years of work. 0.97

00:23:13.000 I don't know exactly where that piece came from, but somebody had that given to them, whatever, and then they say, holy shit, you changed my life. 0.99

00:23:21.000 Here's this fucking piece of the moon. 0.99

00:23:23.000 Maybe it wasn't a piece of the moon, but it was given as a piece of the moon. 0.99

00:23:26.000 Which is just basically the same.

00:23:28.000 Yeah, basically the same.

00:23:30.000 Who knows?

00:23:31.000 But anyways, the skulls were real, the jaguar skulls, all this.

00:23:35.000 And they have a big centerpiece in the altar called the Lanson.

00:23:38.000 And that's like an ancient kind of shavin central pillar, which acts as like the center of this altar, called the axis mundi, which, you know, transforms kind of into ceremonially into like the center of the universe, is what that's supposed to be.

00:23:55.000 So we're sitting there, and he starts going around, and the medicine in San Pedro is the liquid medicine.

00:24:01.000 I didn't even know if it was liquid, if I was going to chew it. 0.96

00:24:03.000 I really had no fucking idea what was going on. 0.67

00:24:06.000 I knew that it operated on the same serotonin receptors that mushrooms and some of these other things, 5-HT2A serotonin receptors. 0.97

00:24:17.000 I kind of knew a little bit of the mechanism of action, but I didn't really know anything other than that.

00:24:22.000 And he starts going around the room and he's got, you know, kind of a warm smile.

00:24:26.000 He's cracking a few jokes.

00:24:27.000 And to me, that's the best sign of any good shaman is that he's willing to like crack a few jokes and stay relaxed.

00:24:34.000 Like the ones that are shady and the ones that are weird are the ones that are like being shaman.

00:24:39.000 Like watch me play shaman.

00:24:41.000 Everybody be silent.

00:24:43.000 Like a yoga teacher that assists on chanting.

00:24:45.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:24:46.000 Sounds really goofy.

00:24:47.000 Exactly. 0.99

00:24:48.000 Like the ones that are really comfortable in the medicine, this is just what they fucking do. 0.99

00:24:51.000 They can crack a joke. 0.98

00:24:52.000 It's not going to affect anything.

00:24:54.000 It's not going to make you think less of them or them do the work any less.

00:24:57.000 And it's not going to stop the dragon.

00:24:59.000 It's not going to stop the dragon.

00:25:01.000 Not going to stop Gandalf.

00:25:02.000 So anyway, he opens up these things and it's actually covered in the skins of the San Pedro cactus, these little vessels.

00:25:08.000 And he starts looking around the room and he'll look at you for like five seconds and then kind of get a read on you and then pour a certain amount into a cup.

00:25:21.000 So I was seeing, and he's pouring little bits in the cup. 0.99

00:25:24.000 And for me, I wanted to project, you know, like, give me the fucking mother low dose. 0.99

00:25:28.000 But I decided I was just going to trust what he was going to do. 0.99

00:25:31.000 So eventually, you know, I watch everybody drink, and it looks like they're drinking maybe two ounces based on what he's pouring.

00:25:36.000 And he gets to me, and I just bust out a huge smile.

00:25:40.000 You know, I was like, all right, let's do this.

00:25:42.000 I was like, really?

00:25:44.000 I don't know.

00:25:44.000 At that moment, I was just really looking forward to it.

00:25:47.000 And he got a big smile.

00:25:48.000 And he pours me up just a full mug.

00:25:50.000 Not quite full, but at least six ounces of this liquid.

00:25:54.000 And I didn't know what it tasted like, so I had nothing to do.

00:25:57.000 So you get up to the altar.

00:25:58.000 He blows a little of the mapacho, which is the nicotinia rustica tobacco in this large joint-looking thing.

00:26:05.000 And that's kind of a cleansing plant.

00:26:07.000 It's just kind of ceremonially used to cleanse the space and cleanse your energy before you do it.

00:26:12.000 And I get the cup.

00:26:14.000 And it takes, you know, it's six ounces.

00:26:16.000 So it takes like five, six gulps.

00:26:18.000 And it's pretty bad.

00:26:19.000 You know, it's thin.

00:26:20.000 It's thinner than ayahuasca.

00:26:21.000 It's kind of ruddy, kind of red.

00:26:24.000 But it's pretty potent.

00:26:26.000 It has that kind of bitter, herby, tonic-y kind of thing.

00:26:30.000 But it wasn't so terrible.

00:26:31.000 I ended up thinking, oh, that's not so terrible.

00:26:33.000 And then he has one of his assistants bring some lemonade to wash it down.

00:26:37.000 And apparently the lemonade has good electrolytes, so you drink that throughout the day on this.

00:26:42.000 So drink the lemonade.

00:26:44.000 And I'm thinking, like usual ceremonies, you just kind of sit around and stuff happens.

00:26:48.000 You see stuff.

00:26:49.000 And I was like, all right, well, settling in.

00:26:51.000 We're going to sit around.

00:26:52.000 No, not what the plan was.

00:26:54.000 So he goes, all right, everybody, meet me out at the front.

00:26:58.000 We're going to take a little boat ride to some of my friends in the jungle.

00:27:01.000 We're going to bring them some mosquito nets, one of the local tribes. 1.00

00:27:05.000 I was like, what the fuck? 1.00

00:27:07.000 We just took a bunch of drugs. 1.00

00:27:08.000 You're going to make us get in a boat and go tracing through the jungle?

00:27:11.000 I was like, alright.

00:27:12.000 I guess that's what the plan is.

00:27:14.000 So we get all our stuff and meet out in the front.

00:27:18.000 And everybody starts getting really kind of chatty in this first part.

00:27:22.000 And he tells us that doing Wachuma is like living a lifetime in a day.

00:27:28.000 Is what he says.

00:27:29.000 Like the medicine is going to change and that the first part is going to be very exuberant and may even result in uncontrollable hilarity, you know, in the first part.

00:27:39.000 Like, all right.

00:27:40.000 And then it'll change from there.

00:27:42.000 And the theme of this one was the serpent masada, the water masada, which is a very kind of fluid.

00:27:48.000 The idea is to, you know, be like the water, be very fluid, be very close to the earth.

00:27:54.000 And that's the idea for this.

00:27:57.000 So everybody's kind of getting chatty, and then we hop in the boat, and we cruise around, and you can start to feel that energy start to build.

00:28:05.000 Very psilocybin-y, you know, as that kind of, you feel something start to come on, and you want to stretch out your spine because there's some energy coming up through you.

00:28:14.000 And we start to feel that in the boat.

00:28:16.000 But then by the time we landed on this little inlet, and you're cruising through the jungle in these rivers, and it's crazy because you'd have no idea how they know where they're going because they're going through these small little openings in the mangroves and the trees.

00:28:30.000 But whatever, 35 minutes later, we end up in this really isolated landing that looks like nothing.

00:28:36.000 And these little bare-chested children come out and run out to meet us.

00:28:41.000 And we hop off the boat.

00:28:43.000 And by that point, we could tell something very different was starting to happen.

00:28:48.000 Like, really, like, coils of energy were, like, pulsing through our bodies.

00:28:53.000 And it felt so fucking ridiculously good that it's, like, indescribably good.

00:28:58.000 Like... 0.97

00:29:00.000 Like full body kind of orgasmic little typhoons of energy.

00:29:05.000 Like just pulsing through where you want to kind of stretch.

00:29:07.000 You don't know if you want to run.

00:29:09.000 You don't know if you can just...

00:29:10.000 It's like almost hard to contain it.

00:29:13.000 And then from the mental side of things, everything just starts to open up like the most beautiful...

00:29:19.000 We just landed in the most beautiful place in the whole universe.

00:29:22.000 You know, you just start to look around and it has this kind of... 0.90

00:29:27.000 Looks similar, but the lighting is a little bit different, and it's just kind of glowing to you like you just landed in fucking Pandora on Avatar World.

00:29:35.000 And the only way I can describe the feeling of that was some combination of the best MDMA, like what MDMA wished it could be in its ultimate form, and a bunch of mushrooms at the same time, just smashed together.

00:29:51.000 So you had this kind of energetic side from the mushrooms and this kind of visionary clarity and this just pure ecstasy of, I feel so fucking great that I can't even stand it.

00:30:02.000 You know, which was not at all what I expected from the medicine.

00:30:05.000 You know, I was expecting something much more visionary, kind of head down, visions, stuff like that.

00:30:11.000 So we get out there and we start interacting with the tribe.

00:30:13.000 The kids come and then the little kids start playing with people in our group. 0.94

00:30:17.000 And the kids, you know, because Don Howard only brings the Westerners out there to this tribe when they're blasted on Lachuma, you know, the whole tribe thinks that we're the coolest fucking nation of people ever, ever in the history of the universe. 0.98

00:30:31.000 Because we're just fucking hugging everybody. 0.97

00:30:33.000 We're super excited. 0.98

00:30:35.000 And we're just looking around in this forest.

00:30:38.000 And it's just beautiful.

00:30:39.000 Everything is beautiful.

00:30:40.000 They bring out these little bananas for us. 1.00

00:30:42.000 And we look at them like, oh, fuck. 1.00

00:30:45.000 That looks good. 1.00

00:30:46.000 And then we take a banana and you have a bite.

00:30:48.000 And it's like...

00:30:49.000 This is the most amazing banana I've ever had.

00:30:52.000 Everything is so fresh, almost as if you've never tried or done anything ever before in your life.

00:30:58.000 And everything is new.

00:31:01.000 If you hug your friend, and we had some good friends down there, or hug one of the people in the tribe, it just feels like this amazing connection you have with them.

00:31:10.000 It just tickles with excitement.

00:31:11.000 And if you eat a banana, it's like the best tasting thing you've ever had ever before.

00:31:17.000 And so they come and they meet us and the men were off in the jungle doing some work.

00:31:22.000 So it was just the women from the tribe. 0.98

00:31:24.000 And they start playing some songs and leading us around and some dances and we're stomping around.

00:31:29.000 And they have a few handcrafts that they had made and we're cruising around and we picked up a few things to kind of support the tribe, dropped off the mosquito nets.

00:31:41.000 I got this little thing.

00:31:42.000 I got you something.

00:31:47.000 I don't know why I got you this, but this is a rattle they made that has pink dolphins on it.

00:31:51.000 So, I don't know.

00:31:52.000 Wow.

00:31:53.000 I don't know why, but this is yours from there.

00:31:57.000 That's pretty dope.

00:31:58.000 Yeah, so it's carved from like a bean pod that's local there in the jungle.

00:32:01.000 Well, I'm a big fan of dolphins.

00:32:03.000 Yeah, maybe that's why.

00:32:04.000 Maybe that's why the pink dolphin called you.

00:32:08.000 So anyway, so we're hanging out there, and at that point, I started, you know, we actually had a crew there with us that was documenting this, which we'll get to see at some point when this comes out.

00:32:19.000 But they were asking, you know, about, well, how do you feel?

00:32:22.000 What about all the things you were worried about?

00:32:24.000 And it wasn't at that point like I had any solutions to the problems that I was concerned with.

00:32:29.000 It was just that all of it was meaningless because life was so fucking beautiful and so good.

00:32:35.000 I didn't have to figure out any of these problems and worries and concerns, loneliness, fears, everything.

00:32:41.000 It was just such an overwhelming feeling of everything was so amazingly good that it just didn't matter.

00:32:47.000 It's like we're alive and that's enough.

00:32:49.000 Every breath was so amazingly positive and And such a gift to be in that you couldn't even worry about something else.

00:32:58.000 And that was kind of the nature of that first little stop off in the jungle.

00:33:03.000 And really cool.

00:33:05.000 But then it started, so we were there for a couple hours and just laughing and having fun and screwing around and thinking about things and smiling and eating little snacks like the banana.

00:33:17.000 And then it starts to get dusk, and so we go into another boat ride.

00:33:21.000 And slowly before that it happened, kind of the hilarity of things and everything started, the energy started to drop.

00:33:27.000 And I remembered back to what he was saying, how the medicine's going to change.

00:33:32.000 And certainly that's when it started to change.

00:33:34.000 Everything kind of got quieter and a little bit, you know, still very powerful, but in a different way.

00:33:41.000 Kind of that ecstatic energy where you felt like you had to run around or had to stretch or had to do something just to release this energy that was in your body.

00:33:49.000 That kind of started to die away.

00:33:51.000 And so we're at dusk on this boat ride, and the way that the shadows were, it was like very difficult to distinguish between the jungle and the reflection on the water.

00:34:02.000 So we're cruising in this canoe, and it looks like we're cruising right through the divide between, you know, air and water.

00:34:09.000 Everything is just really difficult to discern what we're doing.

00:34:12.000 It's a really kind of cool visual effect, obviously made stronger by the Wachuma. 0.60

00:34:16.000 And I start to have my first visions from this experience.

00:34:20.000 And I start to have visions of just what I identified as the true nature of life and that kind of feminine, life-giving, birthing energy.

00:34:33.000 And it was just this crazy, ecstatic vision of life within life within life, like looking at a human, not only as a person, but then a collection of cells filled with bacteria, filled with parasites, filled with life, just teeming all the way down to the level of the flagella that are moving around,

00:34:52.000 And then there was visions of the octopus tentacles flowing and changing colors.

00:34:58.000 Even in the dirt, the dirt itself was alive with different bacteria and insects and things.

00:35:04.000 And everywhere you look, there was just life bursting through every seam.

00:35:08.000 And with that, I saw three women with these long, venomous fingernails and Big, voluptuous tits and amber skin and amber hair, dark, dark eyes. 1.00

00:35:19.000 And you could see the venom dripping from their nails and they're smiling at me and waving me forward, three of them, waving me forward like this. 0.93

00:35:28.000 And it was the most irresistible sight I've ever seen.

00:35:32.000 Just this life everywhere, tentacles and...

00:35:35.000 And I realized that that energy, that polarity of that extreme, life-giving, material, feminine energy was what was completely irresistible to the other force, which is that life force, that source, the non-creation consciousness that has no form and seeks order in all things.

00:35:56.000 And so this polarity of masculine and feminine were just irresistibly attracted to each other.

00:36:01.000 And that's what made the balance between the earth.

00:36:05.000 And the phrase, which I still don't really understand, but I kept saying it over and over in my head, was that existence is the ecstasy of dichotomy.

00:36:14.000 And I think what that means is just that balance between this life-giving, feminine, succulent, seductive, sexy, ecstatic, chaotic presence of the feminine and the other dichotomy of consciousness itself,

00:36:31.000 which has none of those attributes, none of those physical attributes.

00:36:35.000 But that's what existence is.

00:36:37.000 It's that dichotomy of both of those put together.

00:36:41.000 The venom wasn't, you know, we think of venom as evil, but that's just part of this visceral life-death cycle, you know?

00:36:49.000 Things burst forth, things die.

00:36:52.000 The venom is this kind of chaotic, seductive element that's all a part of it.

00:36:57.000 Like, it's not separate.

00:36:58.000 It's not like this part is good, you know, and this part is bad.

00:37:01.000 It just all comes forth naturally without any choice.

00:37:04.000 So the venom and a banana, you know, are really the same thing, just manifested in a different way.

00:37:12.000 So all of it was what was irresistible.

00:37:14.000 It wasn't just the good parts.

00:37:16.000 Even these women with these venomed nails were completely irresistible to the place that I was in, which was this very kind of consciousness, spiritually centered place. 1.00

00:37:27.000 And that was completely irresistible to me, and I could see how it would be to consciousness itself.

00:37:33.000 You know, because that's the dichotomy that creates this, the polarity and the interesting parts of life.

00:37:39.000 So we get finally, everybody was silent on this boat ride.

00:37:41.000 We took it a little bit slower, so it took us about 45 minutes to go back.

00:37:45.000 And then my friend Daniel was there, actually the guy who recommended it right before we pull it up.

00:37:49.000 He's like, man. 0.87

00:37:51.000 That was like the best sex I've ever had. 0.98

00:37:54.000 And all of us just fucking crack up because that's exactly what it was like. 0.98

00:37:57.000 I think very similar visions of just this entering this weird, sexy, seductive world. 0.80

00:38:04.000 And so this dolphin thing came from those people?

00:38:09.000 Yeah, it came from those people.

00:38:10.000 They make them and they sell them or something?

00:38:13.000 Mm-hmm.

00:38:14.000 Yeah.

00:38:14.000 It feels crazy.

00:38:16.000 Yeah.

00:38:16.000 Like listening to your story and holding on to this thing.

00:38:18.000 Yeah.

00:38:19.000 Thanks for bringing this, man.

00:38:20.000 Yeah, you're welcome, brother.

00:38:20.000 It's really cool.

00:38:21.000 You're welcome.

00:38:21.000 It's really cool.

00:38:22.000 Yeah.

00:38:23.000 So anyways, we get back and then he's like, well, meet me back in the Maloka, which is the ceremonial hut.

00:38:30.000 Meet me back in the Maloka for the night ceremony.

00:38:32.000 And the Maloka's all lit with these different candles kind of splayed out and the whole...

00:38:41.000 You know, the whole mesa.

00:38:42.000 If you want to actually bring up a picture of that, because it's almost impossible to describe what this actually looks like, it's pretty incredible.

00:38:49.000 There's some at night, and you'll see the candles, and you'll see this mesa table.

00:38:53.000 And we're just kind of waiting there, and waiting for Don Howard to come in, and everybody was kind of getting cleaned up because we were sweaty from the day. 0.97

00:39:00.000 People took showers, which was a little weird because you're pretty fucking blasted at this point. 0.80

00:39:05.000 Is this it right here? 0.95

00:39:06.000 Yeah, that's a different night.

00:39:08.000 There's another night kind of front on.

00:39:11.000 First, some other pictures that are kind of front on, but that's the table.

00:39:14.000 That was the second night.

00:39:16.000 But anyway, so I'm waiting for him, and there's these Mapacho cigarettes on the altar.

00:39:23.000 And I wanted to smoke one.

00:39:25.000 I was kind of interested in doing that.

00:39:26.000 But for some reason, I felt weird just grabbing it off the altar without giving anything back to the altar, even though he'd been passing them out.

00:39:33.000 Yes, that's what it looks like kind of from behind.

00:39:38.000 But so I'd look through my bag and I was like, well, I got to give something to get this mapacho.

00:39:43.000 And I don't know why.

00:39:44.000 I'm sure it would have been fine with Don Howard, but that's just really what I felt at that moment.

00:39:49.000 And so I looked through my bag and I had a little stick of cinnamon that I used to light and burn and smells nice.

00:39:53.000 So I was like, okay, that seems fair.

00:39:55.000 So I put the cinnamon up there and I take the mapacho.

00:39:58.000 And then I think to myself, ah, well, I got to light it.

00:40:00.000 Well, there's a bunch of candles in front of me.

00:40:02.000 But for some reason, I didn't even feel right taking a light from those candles without asking first.

00:40:09.000 So I asked the candles.

00:40:12.000 I asked the candles.

00:40:13.000 I said, do you mind if I borrow some fire?

00:40:16.000 And just clear as another voice, as if I was talking to somebody else over here to my right, it says, sure, because you're going to give me some smoke.

00:40:23.000 And I go, uh-huh.

00:40:25.000 Yep, you're right.

00:40:27.000 So I go, and there's a candle here to my left, and I light it a little bit from there.

00:40:32.000 And then there was another candle all the way to my right, and I asked, I was like, can I have some fire there?

00:40:37.000 I was like, yeah, sure.

00:40:38.000 So I light it a little bit more.

00:40:39.000 It still wasn't fully quite lit, you know.

00:40:41.000 And so there was a candle in the middle.

00:40:43.000 And without thinking, I just went to go light from the candle in the middle.

00:40:47.000 Didn't ask.

00:40:47.000 Just didn't even...

00:40:48.000 It was kind of unconscious.

00:40:49.000 And inexplicably, when I did that, the smoke just blasted me in the eyes.

00:40:53.000 Like straight up into my eyes.

00:40:55.000 And it really stung.

00:40:56.000 And I heard the voice come back and say, even when it's fair, make sure to ask permission. 0.98

00:41:01.000 And it was the fucking craziest thing.

00:41:04.000 And what it was, was it was teaching me the principle of reciprocity is what is one of the biggest fundamental core teachings of the Shavin people. 0.97

00:41:14.000 And the idea is that even if you don't have anything to give, at least give your gratitude.

00:41:19.000 And that's one of the core reasons and ways that we've gotten off from these kind of old teachings in that whatever you do, there's a give and take.

00:41:28.000 When you take an animal, at the very least, give you gratitude for the gift of that animal.

00:41:36.000 It could be a vegetable.

00:41:38.000 Just say a little...

00:41:39.000 Thanks for that.

00:41:41.000 And as the earth in general, providing a home, providing us a place, materials, the principle of reciprocity would be to do your part to protect that, or at the very least, just be grateful for what you've kind of got.

00:41:54.000 And that, in itself, that gratitude is enough.

00:41:59.000 But it was funny how that kind of came up in this kind of very back-and-forth verbal teaching from this altar. 0.85

00:42:06.000 And this really silly thing.

00:42:08.000 I mean, it's mapacho and fire, you know.

00:42:10.000 But that was kind of the example that it used to kind of drive that point home.

00:42:14.000 And really, you know, stuck with me as something that, you know, I'll always remember, like, alright, you know, the give and take of things is something much older and more sacred than even just an idea that we have.

00:42:28.000 You know, there's like, that is a fundamental principle that should be abided by.

00:42:33.000 That's something that you feel, too.

00:42:35.000 You feel like when you see someone who doesn't tip, you get this weird feeling when you're with them.

00:42:42.000 Or someone who is in a similar vein, rude to someone who's in the service profession, who's trying to be kind to them, and they recognize this imbalance because the person's trying very hard to be nice to them, so they feel like they can be shitty to them.

00:42:56.000 You see that as an observer, as an outsider watching that.

00:43:01.000 It's very uncomfortable.

00:43:02.000 It's like you're seeing imbalance, you're feeling imbalance.

00:43:05.000 Or someone throwing the cigarette butt right on the ground.

00:43:08.000 So common.

00:43:10.000 Incredibly common.

00:43:11.000 And that's the exact feeling that you get from that, is that this is a person that's not in tune.

00:43:16.000 And amazingly so, it seems to be the majority of people that smoke cigarettes in their cars, throw them out the window.

00:43:23.000 I don't know if it's the majority.

00:43:24.000 I shouldn't say the majority.

00:43:25.000 I haven't done a survey.

00:43:26.000 I should say a large number.

00:43:28.000 I see it all the time.

00:43:30.000 I see it...

00:43:30.000 I've counted eight Priuses so far that I've seen that throw cigarettes out the window, which I find particularly ironic.

00:43:37.000 Right.

00:43:38.000 Just an environmentally conscious car with a cigarette flying out the window.

00:43:42.000 Right.

00:43:43.000 Wow.

00:43:43.000 And then it makes you wonder why they chose that environmentally conscious car.

00:43:47.000 For auditions.

00:43:48.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:43:49.000 So they can look cool.

00:43:49.000 Exactly.

00:43:50.000 Yeah, that's that feeling of the balance, the...

00:43:56.000 The reciprocity, just the being aware of the give and take of things.

00:44:02.000 That's a very important principle.

00:44:04.000 It's very important for me.

00:44:05.000 I'm very, very sensitive to that.

00:44:08.000 It's one of the most important things to me.

00:44:10.000 And you're right in line with the very core teachings of the Shavin people, and that was it.

00:44:16.000 So the Shavin was not a race.

00:44:19.000 It was a collection of individuals that came out of the jungle, a collection of shamans and healers and teachers.

00:44:24.000 Set up shop in Shavin, which is an actual location.

00:44:28.000 But it wasn't racially organized.

00:44:29.000 And they had no hierarchical structure, which freaks archaeologists out because they keep trying to look for it.

00:44:35.000 Well, who's the king?

00:44:36.000 Well, there was no king. 0.99

00:44:37.000 It was like the fucking round table. 0.99

00:44:39.000 And they can't understand that. 0.99

00:44:41.000 And they would give ceremonies of the Wachuma and the Vilca to any of the pilgrims that kind of came.

00:44:47.000 And the idea was the pilgrim brings a gift, whatever they have.

00:44:50.000 Sometimes they have no gift and it's just their gratitude.

00:44:52.000 But many times it was...

00:44:54.000 Actual gifts that would come And that's kind of how the society worked, based upon, you know, simply that principle of reciprocity.

00:45:02.000 You know, eventually it died out and it was carried on by a couple other traditions, a couple other places like the mochi and things.

00:45:08.000 But from that point, then other things started to creep in.

00:45:12.000 Hierarchy, power, militarism, etc.

00:45:15.000 Even the Incas, which people credit as this great, highly civilized people, which they were to a great degree, but they were still fully militarized and, you know, kind of I think?

00:45:48.000 So the night ceremony.

00:45:49.000 The night ceremony, yeah.

00:45:50.000 So we get in there, and the first part of the night ceremony, on his altar, on his table, he has these ancient whistling vessels that are somewhere between 500 to 2,500 years old.

00:46:01.000 And they're like these clay vessels.

00:46:03.000 Some are jaguars.

00:46:04.000 Mine was a toucan.

00:46:06.000 One of them was life and death as friends together.

00:46:10.000 And there's these amazing artifacts.

00:46:12.000 What does it look like, life and death as friends?

00:46:13.000 So one is this skeleton and the other is this voluptuous woman and they're holding each other like this and as life and death as friends and all of these vessels and you blow through the top and it creates a really unique whistling sound.

00:46:31.000 And so he asked us all to the altar and he says, well, why don't we try to wake this up a little bit?

00:46:36.000 And he always has that kind of wry smile because he knows, he understates what's going to happen.

00:46:42.000 So we all start blowing on these whistles and together, you know, it sounds discordant at first, but then ultimately it locks into this frequency that feels like it's going through your entire, like just penetrating straight through your head.

00:46:56.000 Like you're not even listening to it.

00:46:58.000 It's just wiping you clean of any kind of frequency that you might have.

00:47:02.000 Like a really strong, resonant sound that just goes straight through your whole body, which was kind of a cool experience in itself.

00:47:11.000 And what they used it for was that, you know, aligning...

00:47:15.000 Just kind of sound and frequency and getting you basically back to that clean slate so that anything you have going on in your head, maybe you've got a song stuck in your head, maybe you've got a beat stuck in your head, maybe you've got some latent programs kind of going on.

00:47:28.000 It just kind of wipes straight through.

00:47:32.000 A cool experience, nothing crazy more profound than that, but just kind of awesome to be a part of this, blowing these vessels that have been Used for this purpose, like ancient consciousness technology, you know, 2,000 years old from the Mochi people and some other people.

00:47:49.000 That's something, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but that's something that seems to resonate in a lot of these ancient shamanic cultures is the need for music, the need for song, songs that carry you through ceremonies, songs that take you through, whether it's a mushroom ceremony or ayahuasca,

00:48:05.000 the ayahuasqueros and their icaros, those songs that they sing.

00:48:09.000 What is there, when you talk to them about that, what's the connection?

00:48:15.000 The Ikaros are kind of their own special thing, but almost every single shamanic tradition has rattles.

00:48:21.000 And Don Howard had rattles, too.

00:48:23.000 His rattles were a little different than these ones.

00:48:26.000 But they talk about breaking up...

00:48:28.000 You know, for them, they can see these energetic forces.

00:48:31.000 And for them, they talk about the rattles breaking up this kind of frequency field around you and kind of recalibrating it to a certain degree.

00:48:41.000 So...

00:48:42.000 The rattles are used completely ubiquitously.

00:48:45.000 And then there's other things like singing bowls, which you'd find in Tibet.

00:48:48.000 And in Peru they had the whistling vessels.

00:48:51.000 And other things that make kind of other shrill sounds.

00:48:53.000 And then of course there's the drums, which make a beat, good for dancing or good for that.

00:48:58.000 The Icaros themselves are just these songs that the plants teach you and are very kind of DMT-oriented, as I kind of found out, because I found myself singing one of these songs out of the fucking blue when I was snorting the vilka, but we'll get to that in sequence.

00:49:15.000 But yeah, it kind of just breaks up the auditory field, and also in a lot of cultures it calls in I don't know.

00:49:32.000 I can't see that stuff.

00:49:33.000 I just know it kind of sounds good and it puts me in a good mood.

00:49:37.000 And it feels good.

00:49:40.000 It takes one of those other seers to experience it.

00:49:43.000 And I don't like speculating on things that I haven't experienced.

00:49:46.000 And they don't actually like talking about things that you can't experience. 0.99

00:49:48.000 And that's the difference between a religion and shamanism is they don't tell you shit. 0.99

00:49:53.000 They show you everything. 0.99

00:49:55.000 If they can't show you, they won't tell you.

00:49:58.000 It's like, this is truth and you have to go find it for yourself. 0.99

00:50:03.000 You know, whereas religions, by and large, are like, here's the truth, it's written down in this book, you better follow it, whether it makes sense or not, or we'll burn you, or kill you. 1.00

00:50:12.000 Well, they have something real. 0.78

00:50:14.000 All that stuff's unnecessary when you can ride the dragon.

00:50:17.000 Right.

00:50:18.000 Really, it's completely unnecessary.

00:50:19.000 Exactly.

00:50:20.000 Because everybody, you get to that same conclusion, different people to different degrees, but it's reproducible, you know, and it's reproducible in every individual.

00:50:29.000 So you don't need to go talking about it.

00:50:31.000 And you don't have to believe in it.

00:50:32.000 No.

00:50:32.000 He does nothing that you have to believe in other than just what you've experienced yourself.

00:50:37.000 And that's the beauty of this kind of work.

00:50:39.000 I'm going too sober to hear this.

00:50:41.000 Beautiful.

00:50:43.000 So then the next part of that ceremony, the last part, was to snort this liquid out of what's called a singalo, which is this giant steak.

00:50:52.000 And it's a liquid preparation that they pour in the tip of it.

00:50:55.000 And it was a combination of the Florida water...

00:51:00.000 Tobacco, some more wachuma, and a few other plants in this thing.

00:51:08.000 So you get up there, and it's this big stake, and you kind of tip it into one nostril.

00:51:12.000 Yeah, I have a little bit.

00:51:14.000 You tip it into one nostril.

00:51:19.000 And you tip it into the other nostril, and then it fills your body with this kind of fiery, kind of lightning sensation that you feel.

00:51:32.000 And it's almost like, you know, you're just holding on to the stake because it's burning as it's going down, this liquid that you've just tilted down your mouth.

00:51:40.000 But it didn't have any kind of great physical psychodynamic effects other than just to kind of like really align you with the altar.

00:51:49.000 So there at the altar, Not too much happened, but one of the interesting things was I was the first one to go and I was waiting for Don Howard to tell me like when my experience was up, you know, because I'm up there at the altar, everybody's watching me.

00:52:05.000 And one of the great things about how he worked is throughout the whole session, he never did that.

00:52:10.000 When you had your turn to go up, he would never tell you like, okay, you're done.

00:52:14.000 He just completely trusted you that you would move and you would take action at the right time.

00:52:20.000 And I really appreciated that.

00:52:22.000 And that, to me, instilled a great degree of trust in Him, which is something that I haven't had immensely in a lot of people, is this ultimate trust that...

00:52:32.000 He's got this thing kind of figured out.

00:52:34.000 And you get that from the trust that he puts in each other individual.

00:52:38.000 It's kind of this interesting thing.

00:52:39.000 So I'm sitting there, and really the only takeaway from that for me was, you know, a communication with the altar that said, basically I said to the altar, I said, you know, I'm going to protect you.

00:52:52.000 And the altar, you know, I could hear it again, clear as day, and said, I'll protect you too.

00:52:57.000 And that was kind of the end of that encounter, and I looked back, and Don Howard smiled, and I gave him back the stake, and everybody went around the circle, and that kind of closed off night one, the end of the Serpent Masada.

00:53:12.000 Night one of three.

00:53:13.000 Nobody tripped?

00:53:14.000 Nobody freaked out?

00:53:15.000 I mean, tripped by nobody, like, had a bad experience with this?

00:53:20.000 That is the danger of going down there on one of these retreats, right, that you might go with a loon? 0.82

00:53:24.000 You might go with some crazy person that can't handle the ride.

00:53:27.000 So he goes through these extensive questionnaires that he reviews for anybody coming down.

00:53:34.000 And he says he's pretty good at weeding out the loons that are going to come.

00:53:40.000 He says it just comes through in the writing and how they answer the questions.

00:53:43.000 Do you ask them to answer essays like an essay form?

00:53:46.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:53:47.000 So they're writing extensive amounts about their intent, about their life, about their experiences, blah, blah, blah.

00:53:53.000 And so he says he's pretty good at filtering that out.

00:53:55.000 But of course, some people who are pathological can fool him.

00:53:59.000 And it's happened before where he gets in those situations. 1.00

00:54:02.000 But you don't want to go down there and fuck with Gandalf. 0.99

00:54:06.000 You're not going to come out a winner. 0.99

00:54:09.000 Why is it I always have to ask what happens when things go wrong?

00:54:12.000 That's my question.

00:54:13.000 You notice that?

00:54:15.000 I'm like, in some ways, I'm a theorist and things going horribly wrong.

00:54:22.000 So I'm looking at this and I'm like, this all sounds beautiful.

00:54:24.000 What could be unbeautiful about it? 1.00

00:54:26.000 Oh, you go down there with a dickhead. 1.00

00:54:28.000 Yeah, for sure. 1.00

00:54:29.000 And he said he's had that happen.

00:54:30.000 He's had that happen where someone came down and intentionally tried to undermine the ceremonies.

00:54:34.000 I didn't go into what that was, but he's, you know...

00:54:38.000 But then, you know, he's there, and not only is it him, he's got two other shamans there as well, indigenous shamans.

00:54:44.000 This guy, Don Robert, who's a banco curandero, which is the equivalent of, like, the coral belt in jiu-jitsu or something like that.

00:54:52.000 There's only, like, a couple in the world who've been bestowed this great ayahuasquero honor, you know?

00:54:57.000 So a banco curandero, Don Robert, and his wife, Doña Ocho, who's another, like, really badass shaman.

00:55:05.000 So you have, like, the wizard council there.

00:55:07.000 So, you know, they're able to really work with some stuff and make an impact.

00:55:12.000 I wonder what happens to those people if they are a crazy person and they wind up doing those drugs.

00:55:17.000 Can you imagine if you found out you could snap somebody back to earth?

00:55:20.000 Like you could have someone who's completely sociopathic, give them some of this and they develop empathy.

00:55:26.000 I mean, is that possible?

00:55:28.000 You always write off sociopaths, but is it possible that could ever be cured?

00:55:33.000 I mean, I don't understand the human mind enough from a scientific standpoint.

00:55:38.000 The medicine is, and Don Howard was really forthright about this, that the medicine by itself is neither going to do good nor bad without the intent of the user.

00:55:49.000 Because the intent of the user, you can use this medicine for, you know, Brujo, bruja, sorcery, you know, is what they call it.

00:55:56.000 Sorcery.

00:55:57.000 To what extent that means, you know, that is...

00:56:00.000 But basically, by saying that, he's saying you could use that to get your own power.

00:56:04.000 Right.

00:56:05.000 Kind of like the shaman who Amber talks about where, you know, to them, that's the dark side.

00:56:10.000 So sorcery is kind of a weird word because they're not, like, making weird... 0.99

00:56:25.000 I'm sure you think that shit went down. 0.96

00:56:28.000 Yeah, totally. 1.00

00:56:30.000 You're not a liar.

00:56:31.000 I'm not saying you're a liar. 0.99

00:56:32.000 But goddamn, you have to sort of include that. 0.99

00:56:35.000 And the nocebo effect of believing something terrible happened is strong. 0.99

00:56:38.000 We were on Opie and Anthony once, and there was a woman that they have who's a regular on the show.

00:56:45.000 She comes on all the time.

00:56:46.000 And they call her Stalker Patty.

00:56:49.000 And we gave Stalker Patty a Listerine breast strip and told her that it was drugs. 0.99

00:56:54.000 And this girl... 0.99

00:56:56.000 I mean, I don't know how much of it was an act.

00:56:58.000 I don't know how much of it was...

00:57:00.000 She's not, like, mentally completely there. 1.00

00:57:02.000 But she was acting like she was tripping her fucking balls off. 1.00

00:57:06.000 Like, she just ate the strongest pot brownie in the world. 1.00

00:57:10.000 And she was just clinging to the earth, trying to stay on.

00:57:13.000 Like... 0.99

00:57:15.000 And Ari had his balls out. 1.00

00:57:17.000 Ari decided to take his balls out and stand next to her and pretend that his balls weren't out. 1.00

00:57:22.000 And we all pretended his balls weren't out. 1.00

00:57:24.000 So his balls were hanging out of his zipper. 0.99

00:57:26.000 And she's like, oh my god. 0.99

00:57:28.000 And everyone's like, what?

00:57:30.000 She's like, oh my god.

00:57:32.000 You guys got me.

00:57:33.000 There's a drug.

00:57:34.000 I'm on a drug.

00:57:35.000 She really believed it.

00:57:36.000 Just because of the...

00:57:38.000 The effect of telling someone that they've...

00:57:40.000 I mean, how many people that get hit with the Holy Spirit, when, you know, you see those people, they start speaking in tongues, like... 1.00

00:57:47.000 You know, when...

00:57:49.000 What...

00:57:51.000 Would they do that?

00:57:52.000 I mean, would they really be doing that if someone hadn't sort of pressured them, someone had to put in their head that that's possible?

00:57:59.000 I mean, in a vacuum.

00:58:01.000 How many people are really going to do that?

00:58:03.000 It seems like they only do that if there's a bunch of other people around them that are doing the same thing, and the power of suggestion takes over, and then you really believe, like the Lord is talking through you in gibberish.

00:58:15.000 Like hypnotists, you know, there's that hypnotist kind of idea that the more people who are there and the more people who are watching, the easier it is to hypnotize you because of the whole dynamic and the other people and the power of suggestion.

00:58:29.000 Yeah, absolutely that plays a part.

00:58:31.000 I've seen that happen.

00:58:32.000 I've seen a lot of people get hypnotized because I had a friend who was a hypnotist. 0.71

00:58:37.000 There was a guy named Frank Santos who was a comedian in Rhode Island and he was a dirty hypnotist.

00:58:43.000 He used to do a show at Stitches.

00:58:44.000 And his son is actually apparently a hypnotist too.

00:58:47.000 I think it's Frank Santos Jr. I just got a tweet for him.

00:58:51.000 His dad was a super nice guy.

00:58:53.000 And employed me, actually, way back in the day.

00:58:55.000 He had a comedy club.

00:58:56.000 Cool.

00:58:57.000 Hooked me up when I was just starting to headline.

00:59:00.000 But I watched this guy dozens of times over several years.

00:59:07.000 I watched him.

00:59:08.000 And we would all watch.

00:59:09.000 Like, comics would come from, like, if we knew Frank Santos was doing a show, like, at Nick's, we would go across town, drive over just to watch.

00:59:16.000 Because you couldn't believe it was real.

00:59:18.000 You would watch these people, and all of a sudden they believed they were having sex with Madonna. 0.98

00:59:21.000 Guys would come in their pants. 0.99

00:59:23.000 They would be having sex on stage, and they'd come in their pants. 1.00

00:59:26.000 And you would have a thing that he would say to women, and they would have an orgasm. 0.99

00:59:30.000 So he could say, I'm going to touch you on the head, and I'm going to say, creamy, cream-filled donut, or something. 0.84

00:59:37.000 He would come up with a name.

00:59:38.000 Whatever he wanted to say.

00:59:39.000 Should be that.

00:59:40.000 If it's not that, it should be that.

00:59:41.000 I'm making that up. 0.97

00:59:43.000 His son's probably like, he never fucking said that. 0.96

00:59:45.000 My point is, he would have like, I would say, abracadabra, and he would touch someone on the forehead, and the woman would just go, oh my god, and people would be dying laughing, and women would be embarrassed, and there's people that would be convinced that they're naked, like, oh my god, like they have their clothes on, 0.98

01:00:00.000 they're convinced they're naked.

01:00:02.000 There's people that were convinced that everyone in the audience was naked, I mean, they were looking around and laughing, and they really were.

01:00:08.000 It's like it was really working.

01:00:10.000 It wasn't that they were acting.

01:00:12.000 There was something weird going on.

01:00:13.000 And he knew when people were under and when they weren't.

01:00:16.000 Like, people would try to fake it, they would be on stage with them, and he would look at them like, nope, nope, sorry, you gotta go.

01:00:21.000 No, no, no, I'm hypnotized.

01:00:22.000 And he was like, no, you're not.

01:00:24.000 No, you're not.

01:00:24.000 It's not gonna work with you.

01:00:25.000 And he would just shuffle them off.

01:00:27.000 And the ones that it would work on, those are the ones he did it on.

01:00:30.000 Super interesting dynamic.

01:00:32.000 The mind is so incredibly powerful.

01:00:34.000 That is one of the main reasons why it's super difficult to take someone's word in account of an event.

01:00:42.000 When someone starts talking about an event, like something that happened, whether it's watching a car accident, participating in an accident...

01:00:50.000 How much of what you actually see in any sort of traumatic circumstance are you really collecting? 0.97

01:00:57.000 Like say if an asteroid was to slam into the ocean near Long Beach and kill like a fucking hundred thousand people. 0.93

01:01:05.000 And you were there and you saw something happen. 0.99

01:01:07.000 You saw it hit the water.

01:01:09.000 You saw...

01:01:10.000 How many people are really going to recount that correctly?

01:01:13.000 Unless you watch the video, your version of the events could vary wildly.

01:01:18.000 You could be off by hours.

01:01:21.000 If you don't talk to anybody, false cell phones go down.

01:01:24.000 Your version of it If no one's videotaping it, we never get a chance to see it, who knows what versions we're going to get.

01:01:30.000 We're going to get a hundred different versions, different timelines.

01:01:33.000 It's one of the things that people, I think, connect to a lot of ideas of conspiracy.

01:01:38.000 You know, people say, oh, you know, if all these people told this story, you know, how much of it could be a lie?

01:01:44.000 No, there's another option.

01:01:46.000 It's not how much of it is a lie. 0.99

01:01:48.000 It's how much of people who are just dwelling on crazy shit until it becomes real in their own head. 0.95

01:01:55.000 And then they have these stories, and their stories coincide. 0.98

01:01:58.000 Okay.

01:01:59.000 Well, there's a part of the brain they call the simulator, and that's what makes you... 0.63

01:02:02.000 Like, think of some weird, fucked-up food combination, like cinnamon mayonnaise, right?

01:02:08.000 No one's ever had cinnamon mayonnaise, probably. 1.00

01:02:10.000 Someone's eating it right now, or they're going, Bitch! 1.00

01:02:13.000 The fuck are you saying, Aubrey? 1.00

01:02:14.000 But you use the simulator to give you a very accurate idea of what cinnamon mayonnaise tastes like. 1.00

01:02:20.000 And that's a very valuable part of evolution.

01:02:23.000 But if you're using the simulator constantly enough, it's almost going to be like, oh yeah, I had cinnamon mayonnaise.

01:02:29.000 If you thought about that and then for 10 years down the road, oh shit, wait, I actually never actually had cinnamon mayonnaise.

01:02:35.000 Well, they've done that with people. 0.73

01:02:37.000 They've implanted fake memories in like...

01:02:41.000 In a strategic sense.

01:02:43.000 They've done it in some sort of another way with mice.

01:02:46.000 They've figured out a way to implant some memories in mice.

01:02:50.000 Some weird artificial memories.

01:02:53.000 I believe, and if I'm butchering this, I apologize.

01:02:56.000 I'm obviously not a scientist.

01:02:58.000 But I believe that what they've accomplished so far is they've attained this rudimentary ability to introduce artificial thoughts.

01:03:05.000 At least in concept, and at least in concept on a Less complex mind as humans.

01:03:11.000 But they can do it through tactics with a person, through counseling.

01:03:17.000 If someone particularly tries to bend your mind and bend your version of the past over a long series of things and reinforces it with your friendship and alienates you when you don't follow the script.

01:03:30.000 It's like watching Homeland.

01:03:32.000 Yeah, sure, sure.

01:03:33.000 It's what churches do as well.

01:03:34.000 If you don't agree with their dogma and their doctrine.

01:03:38.000 They'll get, like, you know, you'll get a lot of rejection, but if you do agree, you'll get a lot of acceptance.

01:03:44.000 And that's one of the reasons why, really, it's really weird what they decide to be upset about.

01:03:50.000 You know, like, I'm watching all these people that are freaking out about this gay guy that just got drafted into the NFL, right?

01:03:56.000 First openly gay guy.

01:03:57.000 And I'm seeing it on both sides. 0.98

01:04:00.000 You know, I'm seeing people saying, this is an amazing thing, and then I'm also seeing people saying, you know, hey, why doesn't he just fucking keep it to himself? 0.99

01:04:06.000 No one gives a shit. 0.99

01:04:07.000 We're not homophobic. 0.98

01:04:09.000 We just don't want to hear it.

01:04:11.000 It's fascinating to see.

01:04:14.000 What is it about this that people are connecting with religion? 0.99

01:04:20.000 Because there's so much crazy shit about religion that no one's freaking out. 0.98

01:04:24.000 Why isn't everybody freaking out about tattoos? 0.99

01:04:26.000 Because it's pretty goddamn clear you're not supposed to get tattoos.

01:04:31.000 Why isn't everybody freaking out about piercing? 0.91

01:04:33.000 You're not supposed to get pierced. 0.90

01:04:35.000 Why are you dwelling on the gay thing? 0.93

01:04:37.000 Why is the gay thing the number one thing? 1.00

01:04:39.000 What about shellfish? 0.91

01:04:41.000 Where's the outrage at the fish markets?

01:04:44.000 Where's the protests?

01:04:46.000 Where people, what is really going on here?

01:04:48.000 It's just this masculine story that's been told.

01:04:51.000 I mean, you gotta figure, somewhere between the stats are, like, in Germany it's 10%, and in other places it's 2%, but a certain percentage of men are gay. 0.98

01:05:00.000 They're just gay. 1.00

01:05:01.000 Yeah. 0.93

01:05:03.000 A really good number of those are just fighting it, just barely hanging on.

01:05:07.000 And then there's this story that's out that if you are that way, then you're not a man.

01:05:13.000 You're not a full man.

01:05:14.000 And so this kind of fear of not being a full man is imprinted in us.

01:05:19.000 And then the combination of that mixed with these people who are desperately fighting it...

01:05:24.000 Because they really are barely hanging on.

01:05:28.000 It creates these crazy scenarios. 0.97

01:05:30.000 I hope that it bounces out to the point where you can goof on gay guys without worry about being labeled as homophobic. 0.98

01:05:41.000 They're on the menu for being goofed on. 0.92

01:05:44.000 It's like, if you say anything, if you joke around about gay people, oh, his homophobic comments, like, was that what it was? 0.83

01:05:54.000 Are you sure? 1.00

01:05:55.000 Because I think there's some gay people that do some creepy shit. 1.00

01:05:58.000 It's not negative against gays. 1.00

01:06:00.000 But I have a gay friend, or a friend who's friends with a gay guy more.

01:06:04.000 I know the guy, but my friend really knows him. 1.00

01:06:07.000 And the gay guy keeps trying to fuck him. 1.00

01:06:11.000 And, you know, he's like stuck in this situation like, man, I can't be friends with this fucking guy anymore. 1.00

01:06:17.000 Like, I thought I was going to be open-minded. 0.98

01:06:19.000 And then you realize somewhere along the line, oh, this is a dude.

01:06:23.000 Oh, he's a dude.

01:06:24.000 And so he's like, just like a guy friend that hangs around with your girlfriend. 1.00

01:06:28.000 You don't trust that motherfucker. 1.00

01:06:30.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:06:30.000 Yeah, you don't trust this gay guy that's hanging around with you. 1.00

01:06:33.000 A straight guy hanging around with a hot lesbian. 1.00

01:06:35.000 He likes to fuck guys! 1.00

01:06:37.000 He's going to want to fuck you! 1.00

01:06:39.000 If you're a guy, it's okay! 1.00

01:06:41.000 There's nothing wrong with it, but, you know, you gotta be real careful if you're a dude and you're in one of those situations.

01:06:47.000 This guy won't leave him alone.

01:06:48.000 So it's like ruining his head. 1.00

01:06:50.000 Like, he associates that guy now, instead of being with his friend, it's being his friend that says crazy shit when he has a couple of drinks in him. 0.98

01:06:58.000 You know, where it's, like, he starts, like, psychological warfare him. 0.99

01:07:03.000 He's trying to say things like, look, no one is born gay. 0.92

01:07:05.000 You choose to be gay. 1.00

01:07:07.000 Because once you try it, you really, like, he starts like, He's just working on your implanting ideas strategy. 0.99

01:07:14.000 He's just working his pimp game.

01:07:15.000 He's working his pimp game.

01:07:17.000 Strong.

01:07:18.000 He's just flexing on my poor friend.

01:07:20.000 And if you started to do a joke about that, that would be widely considered homophobic.

01:07:27.000 Widely considered. 0.98

01:07:28.000 It's like gay men get a pass on all the douchiness that comes along with being a man. 0.99

01:07:36.000 You know, I mean, women, we all possess douchiness. 1.00

01:07:39.000 It's not gender specific.

01:07:40.000 We all sort of have things. 0.95

01:07:42.000 I mean, we're all working out life We're all working out life from the information that was given to us, but people didn't know what the fuck they were doing. 0.97

01:07:52.000 We are working out life based on what we figured out over the course of our lifetime, and we had to de-learn and de-program a lot of shit that was talked to us, a lot of nonsense that was spoken in our ears. 0.98

01:08:06.000 And reinforced every fucking which way you look, from movies to songs to unconscious people. 0.99

01:08:12.000 Pressure from your own parents, man. 0.99

01:08:14.000 Pressure from your own parents has got to be one of the weirdest things. 1.00

01:08:17.000 You know, there's people that never recover from that shit. 1.00

01:08:19.000 I have friends that whatever fucking weirdness their parents put on them, they're just voodoo-ified. 1.00

01:08:25.000 They just don't have any confidence. 0.99

01:08:26.000 They don't have any ability to be themselves.

01:08:28.000 That's an interesting thing when you look at world religions.

01:08:31.000 It's the heredity and region is the absolute, hands-down, number one deciding factor about what religion you are. 0.91

01:08:40.000 If it was like you're just finding the truth, you know, and you're looking at everything and finding the truth, it'd be fucking interspersed everywhere. 0.82

01:08:46.000 But really what it is, it's just you're in an area and that's what's fucking taught to you and that's the story. 0.95

01:08:50.000 And so that's why you're in that religion. 0.99

01:08:52.000 It's not that that's the best one, it's just that's the one that's been fucking taught to you. 0.98

01:08:56.000 Eddie Bravo and I both had very similar childhood revelations, and we were having a conversation one day about the moment we realized there was more than one religion. 0.99

01:09:08.000 That's how we both kind of realized it was bullshit. 0.99

01:09:11.000 I found out about Jews. 1.00

01:09:13.000 My uncle married a Jew.

01:09:15.000 A nice Jewish woman.

01:09:17.000 And converted.

01:09:18.000 Went through the whole rigmarole.

01:09:19.000 And I was, I didn't understand what was going on.

01:09:22.000 I was six years old, you know?

01:09:24.000 And so they had explained it to me.

01:09:26.000 They said, well, you know, Uncle Sal, Uncle Sal, that's who it was, is going to change religions.

01:09:33.000 We're like, okay, what does that mean?

01:09:35.000 Well, he's going to become Jewish, so he's going to have to go through this whole ceremony and learn a bunch of things, how to learn about the religion.

01:09:43.000 You have to take lessons with a rabbi. 0.97

01:09:45.000 And I was like, well, what is Jewish?

01:09:48.000 And they're like, well, there's some people that have a different religion than ours. 0.97

01:09:52.000 You can masturbate more, you can't eat bacon, but pretty much similar. 0.92

01:09:55.000 It was just the idea that there was another religion. 0.99

01:09:58.000 I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

01:09:59.000 Do they have the same God? 0.99

01:10:01.000 Like, then shit got weird. 0.99

01:10:02.000 I started asking questions like that. 0.99

01:10:04.000 They have the same God?

01:10:05.000 Like, yeah, the God essentially is the same, but they believe in Jesus, they just don't believe he's the Messiah.

01:10:13.000 They don't believe in the resurrection. 0.99

01:10:15.000 You're like, whoa, what the fuck is going on? 1.00

01:10:17.000 And they're right there and Uncle Sal's going to marry one of these crazy people? 1.00

01:10:20.000 What are you talking about? 0.64

01:10:21.000 I thought we figured this all out.

01:10:23.000 When I was six, I guess, five, six, whatever it was, which was first grade, I guess it was six, I went through one of the biggest changes in my entire life as far as my understanding of the world around me.

01:10:37.000 And it was caused by one year of Catholic school. 0.99

01:10:40.000 And being in that school, seeing the darkness of that place, and all the evil of those fucking people, and all the kids who were just like constricted and yelled at in that place, I knew, I knew it was bullshit. 0.99

01:10:53.000 I was like, this and Uncle Sal together? 1.00

01:10:56.000 Okay, the whole thing's nonsense.

01:10:58.000 And I was like, realizing when I was six, I was like, Jesus, this bad word to use, Jesus, figure of speech, folks. 0.96

01:11:07.000 All I was thinking was like, oh my god, this world is run by crazy people.

01:11:11.000 I was given birth into a land that's filled with people that are operating on momentum. 0.99

01:11:16.000 And the momentum of one of the craziest fucking stories of all time. 1.00

01:11:21.000 It's a goddamn zombie story. 1.00

01:11:24.000 And everyone is on this momentum of this zombie story. 1.00

01:11:27.000 To the point where the men aren't fucking, and the women are wearing penguin outfits, and everybody's beating kids. 0.98

01:11:33.000 And I'm like, what are you guys doing? 0.99

01:11:36.000 What is this?

01:11:38.000 And then what was really bad about it, though, is not that they were just doing it, but how aggressively their mission was to spread it. 0.98

01:11:45.000 By death, by baby, by whatever fucking means possible, you squash everything. 0.97

01:11:50.000 And that's what kind of swept through Peru. 0.99

01:11:52.000 They were doing these Huachuma ceremonies.

01:11:54.000 The missionaries come through and see it, and they're like, no, no, no, we can't have that.

01:11:58.000 They're accessing higher truth, finding reproducible knowledge about the universe through consciousness.

01:12:06.000 Yeah.

01:12:27.000 And then in renaming that, they allowed it to kind of still exist, but they completely Catholicized the whole thing.

01:12:34.000 They changed the nature of the altar, it became more religio-centric, and then reconstructed the nature of the ceremony, so it was like communing with St. Peter and taking a glimpse of the gates of heaven.

01:12:47.000 Changed the whole framework of the ceremony and kind of watered down the medicine a little bit and then used it for their own religious purposes.

01:12:56.000 That way it kind of changed the whole nature of what this was, which was these guys...

01:13:02.000 And if you look at the keystone of art for the Shavin people, it's this tapestry called the Estella Ramundi. 0.98

01:13:07.000 And it's this dude just fucking... 0.98

01:13:09.000 Head up, heart forward, holding two stalks of wachuma, turning into a jaguar with snuff coming down his nose, like, woo! 1.00

01:13:18.000 I need that as a tattoo.

01:13:19.000 Yeah, totally.

01:13:21.000 Totally.

01:13:22.000 If you want to look up Estella, E-S-T-E-L-L-A, Raimondi, R-A-I-M-O-N-D-I. Yeah, pull that up.

01:13:29.000 That needs to be a t-shirt.

01:13:31.000 It should be an on it t-shirt.

01:13:32.000 It's badass.

01:13:33.000 Put that alongside the zombie on it t-shirt and the chip on it t-shirt.

01:13:37.000 So that was the old way.

01:13:39.000 And I'll tell you in a little bit on the third ceremony why the jaguar was the most sacred animal because I had an experience with that.

01:13:45.000 So to go to the second one though, the second one is the earth ceremony.

01:13:48.000 And by this, this is day five.

01:13:51.000 And I started to go through kind of a detox because you're eating very, very clean.

01:13:54.000 No sugar, no dairy, no wheat.

01:13:57.000 The medicine itself is very detoxifying.

01:13:59.000 And I had, you know, been drinking and whatever, eating crap and doing the normal kind of entertaining thing.

01:14:07.000 I mean, I still eat pretty good for, obviously, you know, for a normal person.

01:14:11.000 But good enough, bad enough that I was going through a detox. 0.98

01:14:14.000 So I really felt like shit in the jungle on day four and five. 0.88

01:14:17.000 So we go into the Earth Masada. 0.87

01:14:20.000 And I'm really kind of dreading it, because I'm not feeling good at all. 0.99

01:14:23.000 That is a wild-ass fucking... 0.98

01:14:25.000 Would you call that a pictograph? 1.00

01:14:27.000 What would you call that?

01:14:27.000 Yeah, well, it's actually carved in stone, and that's a relief of it.

01:14:31.000 If you want to look, you can find the one that's actually in stone. 0.99

01:14:34.000 Holy shit. 0.98

01:14:35.000 Yeah, so there's the one that's actually carved in stone. 0.99

01:14:37.000 So that's 4,000 years old.

01:14:38.000 So those are Wachuma stalks that he has there. 0.96

01:14:40.000 If you scroll down in his hands, see him holding onto those things?

01:14:45.000 And he's transforming into a jaguar there.

01:14:48.000 Wow.

01:14:48.000 And all of these different layers of communion with snakes coming off it, going all the way up to the sky.

01:14:54.000 Goddamn, that is dope. 0.98

01:14:56.000 It's badass. 0.99

01:14:57.000 Wow, this is fascinating, man.

01:14:59.000 So this is a completely different branch of the whole psychedelic food chain.

01:15:03.000 Absolutely.

01:15:04.000 Wow.

01:15:05.000 And completely under-known, because everybody knows it is San Pedro, which is this kind of watered-down, Catholicized ritual and medicine.

01:15:13.000 Because I was down there with some people who had done San Pedro before, and they're like, yeah, it was pretty cool.

01:15:18.000 Yeah, it was cool.

01:15:19.000 It felt good. 0.98

01:15:20.000 But this was a fucking much different ballgame. 0.98

01:15:22.000 The way he prepares it, the way the whole ritual is, is a totally different game. 0.97

01:15:26.000 I want to meet this dude who's from Kentucky, who lives in the jungle. 1.00

01:15:30.000 Yeah.

01:15:30.000 You gotta meet him.

01:15:31.000 What a cat.

01:15:32.000 You will meet him.

01:15:33.000 He's amazing.

01:15:34.000 He's awesome.

01:15:35.000 I just love that there's people like that out there that are just living these very wild lives.

01:15:40.000 It's so different than anything that we have locked into our heads as acceptable, you know?

01:15:48.000 Yeah.

01:15:49.000 It's hard to let go of the idea, but it really is right there in front of your face.

01:15:53.000 It doesn't matter what you do.

01:15:55.000 You just do what you want to do.

01:15:57.000 You should do what you want to do because we're all just going to die anyway.

01:16:01.000 We live and we die and just got to accept that. 0.99

01:16:05.000 It's hard as fuck to do. 0.97

01:16:35.000 Thank you. 0.99

01:16:36.000 So I take it, and immediately I'm just nauseous as fuck. 0.98

01:16:39.000 Like, nauseous to death. 0.99

01:16:41.000 Not enough to actually make me puke, but it's just pretty brutal.

01:16:44.000 So we hop in the boat, and we're cruising down the boat.

01:16:48.000 And where I'm sitting in the boat is like, I'm getting all this spray.

01:16:51.000 It was a windy day. 0.99

01:16:52.000 I'm getting a spray in my face, and I'm thinking about, like, monsters inside of me, about the fucking parasites in the Amazon. 1.00

01:16:58.000 I'm nauseous as shit. 0.99

01:17:00.000 I want to puke, but I don't want to puke, because I know if I puke, I have to open my mouth, and then the water's going to get in my mouth. 0.99

01:17:05.000 Wow.

01:17:05.000 And then I thought I was going to get parasites.

01:17:07.000 So I'm in this like locked into this hell just getting wet.

01:17:11.000 My eyes locked closed.

01:17:12.000 My mouth locked closed.

01:17:13.000 Just nauseous.

01:17:15.000 Like really nauseous for like 45 minutes.

01:17:17.000 And so we arrive on this place and I seem to be the only one feeling like this. 0.98

01:17:21.000 Everybody else is fucking cracking jokes and they feel great. 0.89

01:17:24.000 So we arrive to this place, and it's this entry in the jungle, and they're like, wow, how beautiful. 0.99

01:17:28.000 And I'm like, it's fucking not beautiful.

01:17:30.000 I see this noni tree. 0.98

01:17:32.000 And if you ever had noni fruit, it's really kind of a nasty fruit.

01:17:35.000 It's good when they make it in health preparation.

01:17:37.000 But it's all rotting on the ground, and it smells like a jockstrap stuffed with cheese that's been sitting out in the sun for eternity, just baking and microwaving over and over again.

01:17:48.000 I know that smell.

01:17:49.000 That's a really good...

01:17:50.000 That's a really good description of that smell.

01:17:52.000 I just kind of like that, right?

01:17:54.000 Like a funky, ball sweaty.

01:17:56.000 Yeah, ball sweat and cheese. 0.99

01:17:58.000 And there's pigs cruising around, and it's hot, just sweltering fucking hot. 0.97

01:18:03.000 And there's bugs everywhere. 0.98

01:18:05.000 And I'm just in this little hell, and everybody's like, wow, look at the jungle! 1.00

01:18:09.000 I'm like, fuck this jungle. 0.99

01:18:10.000 I'm like, just not feeling it. 1.00

01:18:12.000 And everybody's on this walk.

01:18:13.000 So we're walking to this tribe.

01:18:16.000 And they're in this kind of jubilant, kind of like I was the day before.

01:18:19.000 But whatever reason, I got locked in this bad kind of space.

01:18:23.000 And I realized I had a key realization that I was feeling pain at that point.

01:18:28.000 I was in pain.

01:18:29.000 I was nauseous.

01:18:30.000 I was unhappy.

01:18:31.000 And so in my world, I was closed off.

01:18:34.000 And I didn't want to give anybody a hug. 0.99

01:18:36.000 I didn't give a fuck about the jungle. 0.97

01:18:37.000 I didn't care about the earth. 0.97

01:18:38.000 I was so focused on me because of my own pain.

01:18:41.000 And I realized at that point, that's what most of us are like.

01:18:44.000 We're in some kind of pain.

01:18:46.000 Sometimes it's physical pain.

01:18:47.000 Sometimes it's emotional pain.

01:18:49.000 Sometimes it's other pain. 0.98

01:18:50.000 And when you're in pain, it's hard to give a fuck about anybody but yourself. 0.99

01:18:54.000 Your natural instinct is to kind of cover up and be like, you know, I'm fucking hurting. 1.00

01:18:58.000 Fuck you. 1.00

01:18:59.000 Fuck you. 1.00

01:19:00.000 So you look at like all these YouTube comments. 1.00

01:19:02.000 That's a key indicator to me that those people are in pain.

01:19:06.000 You know, that's why they're closed off.

01:19:07.000 That's why they're attacking.

01:19:09.000 Deep inside somewhere, you know, there's some pain.

01:19:11.000 Undoubtedly.

01:19:12.000 Undoubtedly.

01:19:13.000 And that pain forces more people to reject them.

01:19:17.000 Because that sort of negative energy that they give off forces more people to shun them, which sort of reinforces their bad opinion of people.

01:19:26.000 Yep.

01:19:26.000 And it's in this cycle.

01:19:27.000 And so while I appreciated that kind of message as I was walking through, I was still like, fuck this. 0.99

01:19:33.000 I hoped it would be over when it got there. 0.98

01:19:35.000 So anyways, we get to this clearing in the jungle and these beautiful tribal people show up.

01:19:40.000 But I'm just like kind of shifting nervously from side to side.

01:19:43.000 Everybody else is off exploring, finding like jungle snail shells and collecting them, adding to their collection.

01:19:49.000 And they bring out this fruit and I'm like too paranoid to eat the fruit.

01:19:53.000 And so all these different opportunities, these choices come.

01:19:55.000 Like they bring out these jungle pears.

01:19:58.000 And it's this weird thing that I've never had.

01:20:01.000 Half like an apple, half like a pear.

01:20:04.000 And everybody's orgasming over this thing.

01:20:06.000 But I'm thinking, what do they wash this with?

01:20:09.000 What's going on?

01:20:10.000 So I nibbled a piece that I thought was safe and didn't touch it.

01:20:15.000 So that was one choice.

01:20:16.000 And me not eating that, I felt even worse.

01:20:18.000 I felt more isolated.

01:20:20.000 I felt more different than everybody. 1.00

01:20:21.000 I was like, I'm a fucking weirdo. 0.99

01:20:23.000 Everybody's feeling great. 0.99

01:20:24.000 And so I started to get more and more isolated and different things would come up and an opportunity to walk in here and, you know, experience this part of the forest. 0.98

01:20:33.000 I was like, fuck that, there's probably bugs there.

01:20:35.000 So locked in this place and I just got worse and worse and worse and it was like the universe was providing me these opportunities to do something and I kept failing to pass the test. 0.99

01:20:44.000 Until finally, I see this tree that looks pretty good for climbing.

01:20:49.000 I'm like, I'm going to climb this tree.

01:20:51.000 And I'm thinking about it forever, and I'm like, how am I going to get up there?

01:20:54.000 I'm pretty blasted.

01:20:56.000 And I see a big spider in the nook of the tree, which is going to be my original path. 0.99

01:20:59.000 I'm like, oh, fuck, there's a fucking spider up there. 0.99

01:21:01.000 I'm not going to be able to climb it. 0.99

01:21:03.000 But then I realized at that point, I was like, all right, this is a test.

01:21:05.000 I really want to climb this tree. 0.98

01:21:07.000 I can fucking figure it out. 0.99

01:21:08.000 The spider's not going to bite me. 0.99

01:21:10.000 And so...

01:21:11.000 I figured it out.

01:21:12.000 And easy is super easy.

01:21:14.000 I just hop a few branches and I get up in the tree.

01:21:17.000 And then for the first time in that whole session, that whole ceremony, I felt like I passed a little test.

01:21:22.000 Like I did something that I was supposed to do.

01:21:25.000 I made a choice that would lead to my happiness.

01:21:28.000 So I started to feel a little bit better.

01:21:30.000 But then we go back up to the tribe and they start dancing around.

01:21:34.000 And, you know, I really had this strong urge to take my shoes off and just kind of dance around because I had these big hiking shoes that are all muddy and stuff.

01:21:41.000 But I didn't do it because I was worried about the mosquitoes. 0.64

01:21:43.000 Well, little did I know, I found out later, the mosquitoes were fucking biting me through my shoes anyways. 0.96

01:21:47.000 So I might as well... 0.99

01:21:49.000 They were biting you through your shoes.

01:21:49.000 Through the webbing of my shoes.

01:21:51.000 They lit me up through my shoes.

01:21:53.000 So I would have been better off taking my shoes off and dancing around in the mud anyways.

01:21:58.000 But anyways, I failed that test again.

01:22:02.000 But I kind of get the game, like, alright, I get it.

01:22:05.000 You're presented with tests.

01:22:06.000 You can either pass them or fail them.

01:22:07.000 Life is kind of a series of choices.

01:22:10.000 But I'm happy when we're leaving the jungle.

01:22:12.000 I'm like, thank God, we're getting out of here.

01:22:14.000 I just basically took a beating from my own mind the whole time I was there.

01:22:17.000 And in doing that, it was one of the most challenging...

01:22:21.000 I've ever worked with the medicine because, you know, even Iboga, which feels like hell.

01:22:26.000 I mean, it's literal hell.

01:22:28.000 All you really are doing is just completely surrendering to that hell. 0.77

01:22:32.000 You just lie on your back like, okay, hell, come on.

01:22:34.000 This one is such an active medicine that you're presented with these challenges and asked to do things in a much more active way.

01:22:42.000 Which is great, but if you start getting on the wrong side of it, it can be really challenging because you have nothing to stop your mind from really running rampage other than just this kind of gentle guidance.

01:22:54.000 So, tough experience in the heart of the jungle.

01:22:57.000 We get to the canoe.

01:22:58.000 I'm starting to feel a little better.

01:23:00.000 I at least passed one test and I climbed the tree, so I was like, oh, at least I did that.

01:23:03.000 So we get there, and again, it starts to be dusk, and that's when the visions start.

01:23:08.000 And then that was probably where I got one of my most powerful visions.

01:23:15.000 So I close my eyes, and I just bury my head in my hands, and immediately I see this demonic face that was made up of fires that were burning.

01:23:26.000 And it's demonic face full of fires.

01:23:29.000 And then I noticed that it's plastics that are burning in the fires. 0.99

01:23:32.000 And I looked at that and I'm like, oh shit. 0.99

01:23:35.000 And then I see that laid out on the skin of what feels like a woman. 0.99

01:23:42.000 And it didn't have all the features, but I could see like the jungle was this woman's I think? 1.00

01:24:11.000 And there was oil that was being drawn out like someone was taking big syringes, like a malevolent doctor was pulling oil out of her skin and then adding it more to the fire, and the fires kept burning.

01:24:24.000 And it was kind of this horrific image of this, you know, almost rape of this beautiful Mother Earth that was presented to me.

01:24:34.000 And so I couldn't really shake it. 0.99

01:24:36.000 And I'm looking and I start to tear up a little bit and I say, fuck, how can I help? 0.98

01:24:42.000 What can I do? 0.99

01:24:43.000 What can I do?

01:24:44.000 And then again, just like with the altar, a really clear voice comes and answers me.

01:24:50.000 And she says, we don't have an environmental problem, we have a consciousness problem.

01:24:55.000 It's like, you work on the consciousness and I'll take care of the rest.

01:24:59.000 And the way she said, I'll take care of the rest... 0.99

01:25:03.000 I'll never forget that because it had such fucking strength. 0.97

01:25:07.000 Like, you know, please, like, do your best. 0.98

01:25:09.000 Work on the consciousness. 0.99

01:25:11.000 But don't worry about the other shit. 0.99

01:25:13.000 Like, I'm going to protect myself one way or the other. 1.00

01:25:15.000 Wow.

01:25:16.000 Kind of a really powerful moment.

01:25:18.000 And then what I saw there is what she showed me or what I saw was people, you know, I would touch somebody and there was a bunch of people and they would just be kind of running around all haphazard, like kind of just doing these robotic motions in circles, like a windup toy that was just haywire that was off balance or something.

01:25:36.000 And I'd reach out and touch one of these people and a light would turn on in their head.

01:25:41.000 And instead of moving around randomly, they would just stop and then look around.

01:25:45.000 And then they would touch another one of these wind-up humans and they would stop and look around.

01:25:50.000 And then slowly it started to connect and what it was showing was We're good to go.

01:26:13.000 All of these lights started going off in people's heads and connected.

01:26:16.000 And I got this image of the utopia that the world could be, where we as sentient humans, kind of aligned through consciousness, are working to help prolong life for as long as possible.

01:26:30.000 It's going to take a little time, but I think within probably the next 20 years, we're going to see a completely different version of culture.

01:26:36.000 I really believe that.

01:26:37.000 I think that's that wave of touching people and spreading it out.

01:26:41.000 It's already happened.

01:26:41.000 I see it.

01:26:42.000 I feel it.

01:26:43.000 It's online.

01:26:44.000 It's moving in a way that's just never had an opportunity to move like this before. 0.94

01:26:48.000 The ideas that got passed word to mouth by fucking hippies and poets and The beat players of the 1960s, what they were so terrified of, what they squashed, the acid and marijuana movement. 0.95

01:27:00.000 What they squashed, they didn't have a way of communicating back then. 0.99

01:27:04.000 They didn't have this fucking thing. 1.00

01:27:06.000 This is the craziest shit of all time. 1.00

01:27:08.000 This internet in conjunction with this newfound awareness of these psychedelic experiences... 0.99

01:27:16.000 And the lessons that can be learned from these psychedelic states, there's a wave of change in consciousness that I've personally experienced.

01:27:24.000 I know it.

01:27:25.000 It's not an imaginary thing.

01:27:27.000 I mean, yeah, there's people that are holding back.

01:27:29.000 There's people that are still angry or still critical or still scared.

01:27:34.000 And, you know, I kind of feel for them.

01:27:37.000 You're not realizing what's going on here.

01:27:39.000 Like, you can be pessimistic.

01:27:41.000 You can be... 0.93

01:27:43.000 You know, you can get it into your head if you really choose to that the world is this terrible place of awful people and it's more likely that there's just a momentum going on that was created by people who didn't know what the fuck was going on and we're awake and we woke up Like, 0.58

01:28:00.000 we're on a spaceship that's headed towards an asteroid or something.

01:28:03.000 I woke up going, okay, who's flying this thing?

01:28:05.000 Are you guys flying?

01:28:06.000 You're not flying.

01:28:07.000 Okay, how much food do we have? 0.99

01:28:09.000 How much gas is in this fucking thing? 0.99

01:28:10.000 Yeah, totally. 1.00

01:28:11.000 Can we turn this thing around?

01:28:13.000 Where's the brakes?

01:28:14.000 Why are we moving in this direction?

01:28:16.000 Is there a reason we're moving in this direction?

01:28:18.000 Has anybody thought this through?

01:28:19.000 Especially when you consider...

01:28:22.000 I mean, the Republican right-wing side.

01:28:26.000 There was a very interesting thing recently.

01:28:27.000 Bill Nye, the science guy, who's just a brilliant public speaker when it comes to defending science, was on the show.

01:28:35.000 And on the show, he got called...

01:28:39.000 I think?

01:29:00.000 Global warming.

01:29:01.000 And then the other guy was like, well, first of all, I think his attitude was like, we don't know exactly what it's doing and what you're saying, like these regulations could harm business.

01:29:13.000 Like, that guy for sure doesn't do mushrooms.

01:29:17.000 No.

01:29:18.000 Because if he had ever done mushrooms, he would realize, like, that is, you just said a crazy thing.

01:29:23.000 You just said, we need to make money so we'll keep poisoning the earth to make money.

01:29:27.000 I mean, I know you didn't say it that way, but that's essentially the equals, you know, if you put them in a mathematical computation...

01:29:34.000 What you're saying is, even if it does poison the atmosphere, we need it because we need the jobs.

01:29:40.000 And your considerations of the idea that regulating something that's poisoning the very earth we live on, that that could be somehow controversial because that poisoning is profitable.

01:29:51.000 Not, we need to find other things that are profitable or substitute it.

01:29:54.000 Like, yes, this is obviously something we need to stop, but we need to find a substitution.

01:29:57.000 No, no, no, no.

01:29:58.000 You could be harming business.

01:30:01.000 That same mind that can put together that screen that's showing you the HD version of those people having that ridiculous argument, that same technology, that technology is there is a reason to figure it out.

01:30:16.000 They wanted and needed a reason to figure out how to make this gigantic LCD screen with incredible resolution and just vibrant resolution.

01:30:24.000 Crystal clear colors.

01:30:26.000 They wanted to figure out how to do that.

01:30:27.000 If they wanted to figure out how to get rid of the garbage that's in the ocean, that giant patch of swirling, deteriorating garbage, if there was an incredible amount of need to do that, if people decided to focus all of their scientific aspirations on fixing all the problems on Earth in a profitable manner,

01:30:48.000 it would be the biggest industry of all time.

01:30:50.000 It would be giant. 0.99

01:30:51.000 We would run out of polluted places because we'd be like, shit, we used up all the polluted places because we figured out some new awesome shit that turns pollution into clean air that gives you enlightenment. 0.98

01:31:04.000 We found some new air that'll let you read each other's minds and you make it by burning out nuclear fuel rods and some sort of a hygienic process with dirty ocean water. 0.98

01:31:15.000 It purifies the ocean water.

01:31:16.000 I mean, they would come up with something. 1.00

01:31:17.000 Some fucking super egghead. 1.00

01:31:19.000 We'd come up with some awesome shit and they would figure it out. 1.00

01:31:22.000 The key is just the consciousness has to come first. 0.99

01:31:25.000 Exactly.

01:31:26.000 Human innovation is insane.

01:31:27.000 We send video through the sky. 0.98

01:31:32.000 We're fucking sending pictures to each other on a regular basis. 0.99

01:31:36.000 You can call them dick pics, but what that is is magic. 1.00

01:31:39.000 That shit is fucking magic. 1.00

01:31:42.000 We're sending magic to each other. 1.00

01:31:44.000 We could figure it out.

01:31:46.000 Ultimately, that's the one thing that humans can do that dolphins couldn't do or any other of these creatures can't do on Earth. 0.97

01:31:53.000 Let's say something fucked up was going to happen to Earth. 0.73

01:31:56.000 Like, we saw a big asteroid coming in 25 years. 0.98

01:31:59.000 Whoa. 1.00

01:31:59.000 It's humans who could figure some shit out to like that fucking movie Armageddon, blow that thing up, split it in two, I don't know, dematerialize it, whatever the fuck could happen. 1.00

01:32:10.000 Time machine. 1.00

01:32:11.000 Just keep going back in time to five minutes before it hits.

01:32:14.000 We have the opportunity, potentially, to use technology to protect the Earth and humanity at large, and that's what I think all of this whole technological thing, why it's good and why it's necessary.

01:32:25.000 Otherwise, we're just completely at the mercy of these other forces.

01:32:28.000 I think...

01:32:29.000 The problem is, is that as Albert Einstein said, it's become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. 0.98

01:32:37.000 Like, both of those things were supposed to ride together like homeboys, you know, a motorcycle and a fucking sidecar. 0.96

01:32:42.000 You know, both of them ride together and that shit got split off by these oppressive forces. 0.98

01:32:47.000 You know, state forces and religious forces that have kind of gone through and... 0.96

01:32:53.000 Kicked out any of these knowledge centers, made illegal any of these knowledge plants, and reinforced this crazy idea of putting business above something like the Earth.

01:33:03.000 That is absolutely, totally possible.

01:33:06.000 But there's other options too.

01:33:07.000 And one of the weirdest ones to me...

01:33:10.000 Is that this all has to be in place in order to move forward with this process that's going on right now, this process with people connecting with technology.

01:33:22.000 That all these forces, they seem to be moving.

01:33:26.000 When you move warfare, what you move is extreme versions of technology.

01:33:31.000 That's the most important thing.

01:33:32.000 That was the biggest part of the space race.

01:33:34.000 People said, oh, they put so much money into that.

01:33:36.000 That was unnecessary.

01:33:37.000 Do you know how many options they got that they didn't have before because of the space race? 0.96

01:33:44.000 Just the innovation of materials and the rocketry, the understanding of what they can get away with, flying things into orbit and shit. 0.97

01:33:52.000 That's never going to stop, man. 0.85

01:33:54.000 That's not going to stop.

01:33:56.000 It is what people do.

01:33:57.000 And sometimes people need a push to do it.

01:34:00.000 And along the way, they have to do battle with evil.

01:34:05.000 And along the way, they have to do battle with suppression.

01:34:07.000 Like for the gay people to get married in 2014 to cheering throngs makes it all the more sweet because it was rejected for so long.

01:34:15.000 And I'm not saying there's anything good about that rejection.

01:34:18.000 There's certainly not.

01:34:19.000 But I almost think that it all has to be there like that.

01:34:22.000 And that we're, in this process of becoming something different, we're learning about the flaws of staying what we are.

01:34:30.000 Relying entirely on the flesh.

01:34:32.000 Relying entirely on these animal instincts that we may or may not think are beneficial.

01:34:38.000 We have this connection with them.

01:34:40.000 We don't want to separate.

01:34:41.000 We don't want to separate from jealousy.

01:34:43.000 We don't want to separate from emotion. 0.99

01:34:45.000 We don't want to be a fucking computer program. 0.99

01:34:48.000 But that might be inevitable. 0.99

01:34:50.000 What we call technology might be a life form.

01:34:53.000 It might be a life form that we're giving birth to, that we are just some weird worm that becomes a butterfly, but we don't know it yet. 1.00

01:35:01.000 And so we're just push, push, pushing, and we're, fuck gay marriage and pollute the air! 1.00

01:35:06.000 We're lighting plastic on fire and stealing copper pipes out of abandoned buildings. 1.00

01:35:10.000 I mean, we're the weirdest fucking thing that's ever existed, ever. 0.96

01:35:13.000 And all along the way, we're working on technology. 1.00

01:35:16.000 All along the way, you could take the dumbest motherfucker out there and he's holding on to a Samsung Galaxy S5. All along the way, we're giving birth to artificial intelligence. 0.99

01:35:29.000 I really like your idea of needing that resistance.

01:35:32.000 And I think there's a great, great wisdom in that.

01:35:36.000 The fact that things maybe are exactly as they're supposed to be.

01:35:41.000 Sometimes I think they are.

01:35:42.000 Yeah, and that's definitely a cool thought. 0.96

01:35:45.000 And then the other thing about technology is, a point that I try to make as often as possible is, these medicines, that's exactly what the fuck they are, is their technology. 0.90

01:35:54.000 Yeah, so it's alcohol, that's technology too. 0.86

01:35:56.000 Yeah, you know, like every one of these things is a technology.

01:36:00.000 Yeah, alcohol, it causes this kind of blood.

01:36:02.000 Somebody figured some stuff out.

01:36:03.000 A shot of whiskey equals this.

01:36:04.000 Broke it down for you, really simply.

01:36:06.000 Right.

01:36:07.000 It's right there in front of you.

01:36:08.000 And for people to... 0.97

01:36:09.000 You have all these labels and memes and ideas and propaganda and bullshit that goes to it. 0.93

01:36:15.000 Just look at everything as technology. 0.96

01:36:17.000 Alcohol is a technology.

01:36:18.000 Methamphetamines are a technology.

01:36:19.000 Wachuma is a technology.

01:36:21.000 But what can that technology reproducibly get? 1.00

01:36:24.000 Well, with meth, it can get you to clean your fucking house and see fucking goblins and freak out and become a stripper. 0.99

01:36:31.000 So that's reproducible on meth. 1.00

01:36:33.000 Like, what's reproducible on Wachuma?

01:36:35.000 What's reproducible on ayahuasca?

01:36:37.000 Right.

01:36:37.000 And you start to see patterns of how this technology can be utilized.

01:36:41.000 And just taking an objective look at that, yeah, it's not a panacea.

01:36:45.000 It's not going to do everything for everybody.

01:36:47.000 Nothing is.

01:36:48.000 It's just a technology.

01:36:49.000 It's like a phone. 0.99

01:36:49.000 You can call somebody a bitch on the phone or you can tell them that you love them and that you'll be there by the side forever. 0.99

01:36:55.000 It's just fucking technology. 1.00

01:36:57.000 Yeah, it's just a means to communicate with. 0.99

01:36:59.000 Yeah.

01:36:59.000 Yeah, that's so true.

01:37:01.000 And that these ideas or this idea of an entheogen or what we would call a drug being a technology and being a method of enlightening or a method of opening yourself up to a whole new...

01:37:18.000 A whole new dimension of possibility.

01:37:21.000 A world that you step into it and now your values have changed.

01:37:26.000 You're a different person.

01:37:28.000 Your values, your ideas of human beings in general, all those change.

01:37:33.000 And they change in this really drastic way that's kind of unavoidable. 0.97

01:37:37.000 Even if you become a dick and you get mad that the mosquitoes are stinging your feet... 0.93

01:37:41.000 You're still, you know, who you are is not who you would have been in those same exact frustrating circumstances three years ago, four years ago, five years ago, a month ago. 0.99

01:37:51.000 Nor will I ever be again.

01:37:53.000 I think it was on, you know, when you came on my podcast that I said that quote, you know, no man ever steps into the same river twice, for he's not the same man and it's not the same river.

01:38:02.000 And that's the case with these psychedelic experiences, even more so.

01:38:06.000 It's because who you come there...

01:38:08.000 In general, that metaphor works because we're always changing.

01:38:11.000 Situation's always changing.

01:38:12.000 But you go through one of these ceremonies and you just have this overwhelming feeling that the person that you were prior to doing it is not the person that you've...

01:38:30.000 Yeah, and I think that the word is out.

01:38:34.000 People are telling people now.

01:38:35.000 It's starting to spread back and forth.

01:38:38.000 I mean, it's not just stories on the internet.

01:38:40.000 I'm hearing people tell their friends that, you know, hey, we got together and we did this and, you know, it changed my life.

01:38:46.000 I mean, I hear it on a regular basis.

01:38:48.000 And it's reaching different areas.

01:38:49.000 I was hanging out with the Chicago Blackhawks, the hockey team.

01:38:52.000 And these are hockey players.

01:38:53.000 They're from Canada and farm towns.

01:38:55.000 They've been bashing each other into boards and skating around on the ice.

01:38:59.000 Not the people you'd expect who'd ever even heard the word ayahuasca.

01:39:02.000 But somehow it got in the conversation that I'd done a bunch of ayahuasca experiences.

01:39:06.000 And you have these guys like, oh, I heard about that.

01:39:09.000 That sounds awesome.

01:39:10.000 I really want to go do that. 0.99

01:39:11.000 And you're like, what the fuck? 0.99

01:39:13.000 How do you even know about this? 0.99

01:39:15.000 So it's reaching this kind of critical mass, which is really exciting.

01:39:18.000 Huge in the MMA world.

01:39:20.000 Yeah.

01:39:20.000 I know a dude who's a shaman, who's a trainer.

01:39:24.000 I probably don't want me to mention his name, but he's a legit shaman.

01:39:29.000 I mean, he's a cool dude. 0.99

01:39:31.000 You have conversations with him, and you're looking in this dude's eyes like, oh, you've seen some shit. 0.99

01:39:36.000 He puts on ayahuasca ceremonies for MMA fighters. 0.99

01:39:39.000 He'll take them for a retreat in the mountains.

01:39:42.000 They have this spot that he goes to, and he cooks up the ayahuasca, and he thinks it's important for being a fighter.

01:39:49.000 He thinks that a fighter, to really truly get in tune with who he is as a man, that a psychedelic experience like an ayahuasca experience will get rid of all that extra baggage he's carrying around, that he doesn't need, and it'll allow you to perform as an unhindered soul.

01:40:04.000 I mean, you may not even want to continue MMA anymore.

01:40:07.000 That's the other problem with it.

01:40:09.000 You do something like ayahuasca, there's a very real possibility that you don't ever want to hurt anybody again.

01:40:14.000 And I think that's a fear that a lot of people have, that they don't want to give up these things.

01:40:17.000 But it's just your own mind's truth.

01:40:20.000 It's not like ayahuasca is telling you that as ayahuasca.

01:40:23.000 It's just allowing you to think about something in a certain way. 1.00

01:40:25.000 So don't be afraid of that shit. 1.00

01:40:26.000 I used to be, I mean, this is going to be a ridiculous statement. 1.00

01:40:44.000 Right. 0.98

01:40:49.000 I mean, it's a total ridiculous thought. 0.91

01:40:51.000 I mean, it sounds like a cop-out for not trying to be more enlightened, but it was a legitimate thought.

01:40:57.000 Like, I was thinking about all the people that I think are really funny, and what is their comedy?

01:41:03.000 What kind of comedy do I like that they do? 0.95

01:41:05.000 And there's all this, like, crazy, ridiculous, drunken, you know, these tirades and stories that were just the most ridiculous sexual escapades. 0.97

01:41:16.000 Those are the guys that I thought were the most hilarious. 0.99

01:41:19.000 And I'm like, well, you've got to drink.

01:41:21.000 You can't be doing yoga and eating vegetables.

01:41:25.000 You have to drink to be this funny.

01:41:27.000 This is a totally different thing.

01:41:28.000 And I remember thinking that there was no way that you could be on the path, even thinking about enlightenment, and still be funny.

01:41:38.000 I think the way to think about that for me is, and I think part of this experience opened it up, is being on that path to enlightenment and restricting yourself from drinking or having to be in a certain way is kind of like that shaman that's playing shaman.

01:41:56.000 Like the truly enlightened individual can decide, and I think the Toltecs had a word for it, they call it your controlled folly.

01:42:03.000 You can decide to get wasted and do something like that, but do it in a conscious way.

01:42:08.000 I mean, obviously, doing something to hurt somebody, that's probably going to be a problem with your thing.

01:42:13.000 Yeah, of course.

01:42:13.000 But you can choose to be whatever you want to be.

01:42:15.000 You don't have to be a fucking raw, vegan, meditating, everyday yoga kind of person, unless that's what you want to be. 0.97

01:42:22.000 You can still choose, and it's still a path with heart. 0.98

01:42:26.000 And I think that's what the true enlightenment is and will be.

01:42:29.000 It's not going to be playing enlightenment.

01:42:31.000 It's just going to be being there and deciding... 0.98

01:42:34.000 Yeah, we're going down this fucking Jack Daniels hole today, and we're going to see what's on the other side of it. 0.99

01:42:38.000 Go for it. 0.99

01:42:39.000 Well, that's why there's a big issue with people who are trying to combat what they seem to be a negative behavior, a negative attitude, hate maybe perhaps, that they're combating it with hate.

01:42:54.000 Yep.

01:42:55.000 It's the total incorrect approach.

01:42:58.000 If you're faced with something that hates you, mock it.

01:43:03.000 Yeah.

01:43:03.000 You know?

01:43:04.000 All right.

01:43:04.000 Don't hate.

01:43:05.000 Don't actually be angry. 0.92

01:43:06.000 Point out what's ridiculous about it.

01:43:08.000 Yeah. 0.97

01:43:08.000 And if you could point out what's ridiculous about it successfully, it can't even be ignored by the subject of your ridicule. 0.97

01:43:15.000 Yeah. 0.95

01:43:15.000 That's the beauty of it. 0.95

01:43:16.000 You can't ignore it. 1.00

01:43:17.000 If someone shuts you down and makes fun of you and it's in a really funny way and you look really stupid, like, oh my god, I do do that. 1.00

01:43:25.000 You know? 0.98

01:43:26.000 If someone, by the way, is like, we always do the calendar.

01:43:28.000 By the way! 0.99

01:43:29.000 He goes, oh, fuck, I do that. 1.00

01:43:30.000 He knows he does it. 1.00

01:43:31.000 You know?

01:43:32.000 That's, I mean, that's a bad example.

01:43:34.000 But that's, when you're trying to Stop hateful, angry behavior.

01:43:42.000 The tendency is always to meet it with a more hateful, more angry response.

01:43:48.000 It's almost like instinct.

01:43:50.000 But there's strength in forgiving people.

01:43:53.000 And there's strength in Having a frustration and anger towards something and then just completely letting it go.

01:44:02.000 Yeah.

01:44:02.000 And there's a freedom in that where you realize, like, oh, that was a choice.

01:44:07.000 Like, that was a choice.

01:44:08.000 I was hanging on to this.

01:44:09.000 How many guys do you know that you had, like, maybe a disagreement with or a beef with or you were worried about running into them?

01:44:14.000 Like, oh, my God, this better not get physical.

01:44:17.000 Like, this guy better not swing at me or something.

01:44:19.000 Right.

01:44:19.000 But then when you got there, you maybe said something that explained your side a little better, and he said something that explained his side, and then you hug.

01:44:26.000 You shake hands and you hug.

01:44:29.000 And then, woo, what a relief that is.

01:44:31.000 What a great feeling that is.

01:44:33.000 It's just like it neutralized this acid you've been keeping in this little vial inside your body.

01:44:38.000 Especially when it's just a misconception. 0.97

01:44:42.000 And you can enlighten that person or you can clarify what was really going on or what you had to do or why you fucked up. 0.78

01:44:51.000 That's a nice feeling when people just abandon the idea of being enemies.

01:44:55.000 But it makes you feel like, what is keeping us from doing this all the time?

01:45:00.000 And one thing that I had...

01:45:03.000 I mean, I've had a few experiences that were pretty changing to me.

01:45:06.000 But one of them that I didn't expect was...

01:45:09.000 Ecstasy.

01:45:10.000 Doing ecstasy.

01:45:11.000 I didn't think it was going to change me very much.

01:45:12.000 I thought this was just going to be a party drug.

01:45:14.000 We're going to do some ecstasy and hold hands.

01:45:17.000 I was holding my friend's hand, a dude's hand.

01:45:19.000 We're rubbing fingers together. 0.98

01:45:21.000 This is the most ridiculous thing ever. 0.99

01:45:23.000 It would be so homoerotic or so gay if we did that on a regular basis. 1.00

01:45:29.000 If we're holding hands, there better be a joke involved. 0.89

01:45:31.000 You know?

01:45:32.000 But when you're on ecstasy, it felt totally normal.

01:45:34.000 And then I remember thinking after it was over, like, I know he's not gay, and I'm not gay, but how come in normal life I would never let that happen? 0.96

01:45:43.000 But in this state of ecstasy, when you're on MDMA, it's totally cool.

01:45:49.000 Hugging your friends is totally cool, and it's completely non-sexual.

01:45:53.000 And it made me think, like, man, we're really insecure in, like, the strangest ways, like, and that we don't even recognize as being insecure.

01:46:01.000 Sexually insecure, physically insecure, mentally insecure, insecure as to whether or not people really like you.

01:46:08.000 There's people out there that are living their lives wondering if people actually like them or if they're just pretending to like them and they're going to turn on them at any moment.

01:46:17.000 They're going through life flinching.

01:46:22.000 A lot of us.

01:46:23.000 These experiences, that was one of the things with the Wachuma too.

01:46:27.000 Just hugging somebody who you don't even hardly fucking know, but it's just another human being and it's like at the end of the ceremony night, you're just like, hey, that was cool.

01:46:37.000 You feel this connection with that human being and it's so weird that we become dull and we close ourselves off to all of these possible expressions that are available and these medicines are a great way to kind of open that up.

01:46:51.000 Yeah.

01:46:51.000 Well, they are technology, and they have been used by people we know, including yourself, to positive benefit, to a positive result.

01:47:00.000 And that's just something you can't ignore anymore.

01:47:02.000 You can't just tell people they can't do it because you said.

01:47:05.000 Right.

01:47:05.000 You can't just do that.

01:47:07.000 It doesn't make any sense. 0.99

01:47:08.000 The only reason why this shit is not in the United States of America, first of all, it's holding back our freedom. 0.99

01:47:15.000 Okay? 0.99

01:47:16.000 Okay.

01:47:16.000 It is.

01:47:17.000 It's holding back our freedom.

01:47:18.000 It really is.

01:47:19.000 The most sacred freedom we have.

01:47:20.000 Yeah, freedom of consciousness.

01:47:21.000 Well, the only reason why human beings figured out anything is because they had the freedom to experiment.

01:47:26.000 That's the only reason why language was invented.

01:47:29.000 If you weren't allowed to say, how about we fucking make A equals ah? 0.85

01:47:33.000 Can we do that? 0.97

01:47:34.000 Ah is this.

01:47:35.000 You know, the only reason why anybody was allowed to do that is because you had freedom to express yourself.

01:47:41.000 Freedom to try things.

01:47:42.000 Freedom to...

01:47:43.000 And whether to try that...

01:47:44.000 Trying that thing is creating a language or whether it's figuring out that psychedelic medicines allow you to get a better grip on your ego and how much your insecurity and the futility of life itself becomes a focal point instead of life.

01:47:57.000 The futility of life becomes your focal point.

01:47:59.000 Oh, what's the point?

01:48:00.000 There's not a point, but it's going on right now and you're blowing it, son.

01:48:04.000 You're blowing it.

01:48:05.000 It's like Angelo Dundee said to Sugar Ray Leonard before he came out to knock out Tommy Hearns.

01:48:09.000 You're blowing it, son.

01:48:11.000 Yeah.

01:48:11.000 You're going through your whole life flinching.

01:48:13.000 Yeah.

01:48:15.000 Very wise, brother.

01:48:16.000 Very wise.

01:48:16.000 Flinching and being angry at people.

01:48:19.000 I mean, wow, I'm saying that angry.

01:48:22.000 Yeah, that's the key.

01:48:24.000 That's out there now, though.

01:48:26.000 It is.

01:48:26.000 The secret's out.

01:48:27.000 I mean, I didn't invent it. 0.99

01:48:29.000 It's fucking banging around. 0.99

01:48:31.000 4,000 years old. 1.00

01:48:31.000 You got a dude holding the fucking Wachuma stock in his head up and his heart forward. 1.00

01:48:36.000 And that's actually... 0.99

01:48:37.000 So to close out the Earth Ceremony...

01:48:39.000 All of the Shavin, you know, spiritual figures, they're turning into jaguars and they're heads up. 0.98

01:48:45.000 I didn't really understand that.

01:48:46.000 And Gandalf doesn't, you know, Don Howard doesn't really tell you things.

01:48:50.000 He lets you try to figure it out.

01:48:51.000 So we go through and the night of the earth ceremony was his kind of big clearing night where he's working on trying to clear the energies out of different people, much like an ayahuasca would.

01:49:03.000 So it gets to be my turn and he whispers, he comes behind me and he says, you're pure Shavin, brother, heart to heart.

01:49:12.000 And I was like, alright.

01:49:13.000 And I could just feel this kind of warmth and intensity in what he was saying.

01:49:17.000 And he starts rattling his rattles and a feather.

01:49:20.000 And he starts doing it on my chest.

01:49:22.000 And I'm just sitting there and for about 30 seconds nothing's happening.

01:49:27.000 And then I notice my chest starts to lift like more and more until my chest is so far forward that I'm not consciously doing this at all.

01:49:35.000 My chest is so far forward that I can't help but tilt my head up to the sky.

01:49:42.000 And I realized at that point what the message of that was, was that So often we lead with the cerebral part of our mind, just thinking constantly, thinking, thinking, thinking.

01:49:52.000 But really, the best way to do it is to lead with your heart.

01:49:58.000 Lead with that deeper knowledge that doesn't require the magnificent calculator that we have.

01:50:03.000 Because it is a magnificent calculator.

01:50:05.000 It's great for computing, innovating, things like that.

01:50:08.000 But to chart the course for yourself, for your friends, for humanity, charting that with that deeper, you know, empathetic intelligence that you have at your core center, which we call heart, you know, whatever you want to call that, that's the way to really lead.

01:50:24.000 And he was able to kind of get that.

01:50:26.000 Through my head and help me understand what all these, you know, graphics, these tapestries were without ever having to say a single word.

01:50:34.000 And that's, you know, some of the cool things about working with a real master like Don Howard is he could have told me that, yeah, they all have their head up because their heart's forward, their head's connecting with source, and their heart's leading the way.

01:50:47.000 Well, he doesn't have to say that.

01:50:49.000 He can just kind of use the rattles, use the feathers.

01:50:53.000 You look at it and you just feel it.

01:50:55.000 So you don't need a whole narrative.

01:50:57.000 Exactly.

01:50:58.000 A narration of the events.

01:50:59.000 It's pretty clear what's going on.

01:51:01.000 Yep.

01:51:02.000 You just tap in and that same truth that hit them 4,000 years ago will hit you.

01:51:06.000 Woo! 0.99

01:51:07.000 That's so crazy. 0.99

01:51:08.000 It was fucking awesome. 0.97

01:51:10.000 Do you believe that you experience, you co-experience other people's trips? 0.96

01:51:15.000 Do you believe that trips are contained?

01:51:18.000 That was one of the ideas that McKenna had about any psychedelic, that when you're taking it, you're not just imbibing in this one psychedelic.

01:51:27.000 You're actually experiencing all the trips of all the people who've ever done it.

01:51:31.000 That there's a shared space.

01:51:34.000 That the trips live in.

01:51:36.000 What you're doing is literally, or figuratively, connecting to some sort of another dimension.

01:51:42.000 I feel like that, because I feel like there's a spirit of the plant.

01:51:45.000 Now, I will say, with non-plant medicines, which I've done a couple, I actually told some of those stories in the last podcast, I did not feel that with non-plant medicines, and I haven't had a good experience.

01:51:55.000 With smoking DMT? Well, that comes from...

01:52:00.000 It's extracted from plants.

01:52:01.000 Extracted from a plant, yeah.

01:52:02.000 You can get synthetic.

01:52:03.000 You know, they do, like, 5M, you know, have you ever done that?

01:52:06.000 Right.

01:52:06.000 I haven't done any synthetic.

01:52:07.000 Everything I've done is from the...

01:52:09.000 Extracted from bark.

01:52:11.000 So, I don't know.

01:52:13.000 I mean, but with the plant medicines, I feel like you're connecting to...

01:52:17.000 You're jumping in a lake that has been there and has a resonance, and everybody else who swam in that lake...

01:52:23.000 And left their stink in the water, you know, their beautiful stink, whatever you want to call it.

01:52:27.000 You're connected with that whole experience and it has an intrinsic nature.

01:52:31.000 Sorry, and here's something to consider too when you bring up this whole idea of what is synthetic and what is natural.

01:52:36.000 The reality is everything on earth comes from earth.

01:52:40.000 So it is all natural in a certain sense.

01:52:43.000 It has just been manipulated by human beings.

01:52:45.000 The real question becomes, is that not natural?

01:52:49.000 Because it seems like we manipulate everything around us.

01:52:51.000 You know, when bees make honey, they're manipulating things. 0.98

01:52:55.000 I mean, we manipulate every goddamn thing we get a hold of. 0.95

01:52:58.000 And is it really natural if a bee made it? 0.98

01:53:00.000 It seems like that bee just... 1.00

01:53:02.000 Sort of fucking concocted that shit. 1.00

01:53:04.000 So maybe it's just that lake, you know, so the LSD lake got formed by Albert Hoffman in whatever, the 30s or whatever. 1.00

01:53:11.000 So it's like 80 years old, right?

01:53:14.000 So it doesn't have a lot of essence to it.

01:53:17.000 It doesn't have a lot of spirit.

01:53:18.000 I believe it probably does have a spirit. 0.97

01:53:20.000 And maybe in 3,000 years, that LSD spirit will be strong as fuck and the communal experience of all that will be there. 0.74

01:53:27.000 But when you're doing something that's grown and been alive and been in existence... 0.51

01:53:32.000 It's had way longer to just kind of feel and collect the energy of everybody else that's been there.

01:53:38.000 It seems to have more of a power.

01:53:40.000 That's when it makes sense, that it would have these experiences in it.

01:53:43.000 Because the idea being that when you're consuming a psychedelic, and this is, by the way, if I'm butchering this, I'm so sorry.

01:53:51.000 When you're consuming a psychedelic, the idea is that you are becoming one with it.

01:53:56.000 That during that digestive process...

01:53:59.000 No, I say process.

01:54:00.000 I sound cooler and smarter.

01:54:02.000 Process.

01:54:03.000 Process.

01:54:03.000 I wish I was Canadian.

01:54:04.000 Process.

01:54:05.000 As you're saying it, I guess it would be English more than Canadian.

01:54:09.000 That this, somehow or another, when it connects to your bloodstream, when it passes the blood-brain barrier, whether it's psilocybin or whether it's any of these other psychedelic compounds that you take in, that during that trip that what's actually happening is you're changing your frequency and your mind,

01:54:30.000 whatever you call your consciousness, goes to another place.

01:54:34.000 What happens in the place where it's at while it's happening?

01:54:38.000 Well, they're all connected.

01:54:39.000 The idea that you have to be in another dimension, your mind's in another dimension, your body's here, that doesn't make any sense.

01:54:44.000 It does make sense, because it's a big, crazy soup.

01:54:47.000 But it's a soup that seems like you can only...

01:54:50.000 You can only access certain areas of it when you hit this certain frequency that you get by imbibing these plant cocktails and whether they're synthetic because they're based on the plants or whether it's the actual plant itself What you're doing is you're tapping into that next door neighbor.

01:55:09.000 You're just stealing cable from that guy.

01:55:11.000 You're like, whoop!

01:55:12.000 You're using his electricity, like, whoa.

01:55:14.000 I mean, it's almost like that.

01:55:16.000 You go into the next door neighbor dimension.

01:55:19.000 I agree.

01:55:20.000 And all bets are off.

01:55:22.000 I kind of look at it like you're a shish kebab and you're going through an onion. 1.00

01:55:27.000 And so all of you and all the potentials are that whole shish kebab. 0.90

01:55:31.000 It's all aligned.

01:55:32.000 An infinite onion.

01:55:32.000 Yeah, an infinite onion of infinite layers.

01:55:34.000 And doing these medicines just move your consciousness, which is like a dot on that shish kebab, move it up and down through those different layers.

01:55:43.000 And that's really kind of what you're doing.

01:55:45.000 But you're still connected. 0.99

01:55:46.000 You're still that one, you know, infinite shish kebab on a fucking infinite, piercing an infinite onion. 0.99

01:55:52.000 That is what you're doing. 0.99

01:55:52.000 And your consciousness is just kind of sliding up and down it. 0.99

01:55:55.000 Oh my God, that is what you're doing.

01:55:57.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:55:59.000 The idea that you can somehow or another in midlife alter and change, that sounds ridiculous to people.

01:56:06.000 But is it less ridiculous that you could run into someone and they just lost 80 pounds?

01:56:11.000 I mean, what happened to that guy?

01:56:12.000 If you're telling me that guy didn't make a drastic change in the path of his life...

01:56:19.000 We're good to go. 0.92

01:56:36.000 And then, boom, he starts drinking water every day, and he quits all the soda, and boom, he starts eating fresh vegetables, and then, boom, he starts fucking lifting weights and working out, he does jujitsu, he loses 70 fucking pounds, he becomes a blue belt. 0.98

01:56:50.000 That's a different human. 0.63

01:56:52.000 That is a guy, how are those in the same world?

01:56:56.000 And how many of those little changes that happen during the day, pro and con, are this constant river-shifting thing and the idea that time is this linear thing and you're going to get to 65 and you're going to get a 401k back and you left Social Security and you're going to go into a box. 0.65

01:57:12.000 Life of the unconscious robot versus that life lived on the bleeding fucking edge of free will.

01:57:17.000 And that was what my last ceremony was about, the bleeding edge of free will, the Air Masada. 0.97

01:57:23.000 The bleeding edge of free will.

01:57:24.000 Yeah, that was it.

01:57:25.000 I gotta piss.

01:57:26.000 Yeah, go piss. 0.99

01:57:27.000 That'd be the greatest name for a punk band ever. 0.97

01:57:30.000 The bleeding edge of free will. 0.98

01:57:32.000 And then we could solve the debate as to who the number one fucking drummer of all time is, Jamie. 1.00

01:57:36.000 That shit has erupted on Twitter. 0.99

01:57:38.000 People are apparently very upset at the choices in drummers. 1.00

01:57:42.000 People take their number one drummer of all time seriously.

01:57:45.000 For folks asking, we're probably going to wind up doing one of those podcasts again that we did last night, the Fight Companion.

01:57:52.000 While the UFC fights were going on, we got drunk, and me, Brendan Shaw, Brian Callen, and Aubrey watched the fights and just talked.

01:58:02.000 It was one of the most fun podcasts ever.

01:58:04.000 It was awesome.

01:58:06.000 It was a podcast plus Awesome Fights.

01:58:09.000 It was a combination because it really did flow like a podcast.

01:58:14.000 Subjects came up. 1.00

01:58:15.000 We talked shit to each other. 0.99

01:58:17.000 Brian gave out some disinformation. 1.00

01:58:19.000 It was totally like a regular podcast.

01:58:21.000 And on top of it, there were awesome fights going on.

01:58:26.000 So to the folks that asked, yes, we're definitely going to do that again.

01:58:29.000 I had a great time.

01:58:31.000 It was a fresh thing.

01:58:33.000 And it made me think, man, I might like doing that more than I like doing the UFC. I don't want to say it, but it might have been better because I could talk shit and be completely free with my language. 0.96

01:58:46.000 We were talking about the fight podcast last night. 0.97

01:58:49.000 It was one of the most fun fight-watching events ever.

01:58:52.000 Because we got to just talk, you know, hang out, have fun, laugh, joke. 0.99

01:58:56.000 Brendan Schaub told us all the various ways in which he's shit himself. 1.00

01:59:00.000 Do you want to shit yourself? 1.00

01:59:02.000 No. 1.00

01:59:02.000 I fucking love that dude. 1.00

01:59:05.000 He's funny, man. 1.00

01:59:06.000 He says some funny shit. 1.00

01:59:08.000 He cracks me up. 1.00

01:59:10.000 He's a nice fucking guy, too, man. 0.97

01:59:12.000 It's a real pleasure when you meet someone, and the more you know them, the more they constantly surprise and delight you with what they have to say. 0.98

01:59:19.000 Shabba's awesome.

01:59:20.000 He's aces in my book.

01:59:21.000 He's a funny guy.

01:59:22.000 A lot of people give him a hard time because he's real confident, you know?

01:59:25.000 But guess what? 1.00

01:59:26.000 He's a goddamn professional mixed martial arts fighter. 1.00

01:59:28.000 If he wasn't that arrogant and confident, he would be, you know, I would really be suggesting he try something different. 1.00

01:59:34.000 This is not for you. 1.00

01:59:35.000 You have to be a crazy person to do that job. 1.00

01:59:37.000 And he knows it. 1.00

01:59:38.000 And he's acting like a crazy person. 0.93

01:59:41.000 You know, there's certain versions of the crazy person that people don't like to see. 0.99

01:59:45.000 They don't like to see the cocky crazy person. 0.84

01:59:47.000 But it's the authenticity of it that makes it real. 0.96

01:59:49.000 I mean, cocky can be an act. 0.99

01:59:51.000 It can be that, I got a big old truck with big old tires because I have a little tiny dick kind of mentality, you know? 1.00

01:59:56.000 Is there anyone out there, I would think that if you have a big old truck and big old tires, girls would be like, come on, let me see that dick. 1.00

02:00:02.000 If you want to call as least attention to your dick as possible, you would want like an old golf, a VW golf. 0.99

02:00:09.000 If you had a little dick, you just would not want to peacock it out so strong. 1.00

02:00:13.000 That's just my feelings. 1.00

02:00:14.000 You'd think that the word would be out, but I don't know.

02:00:16.000 I don't know. 0.99

02:00:16.000 I've never looked at the dick of a man with big tires. 0.99

02:00:19.000 Maybe next time. 0.99

02:00:20.000 Hey, homework for everybody.

02:00:21.000 Next time.

02:00:22.000 Next time I see a dude with big tires, I'm like, come on, son. 1.00

02:00:25.000 Whip that shit out. 1.00

02:00:27.000 Let me take a look at it. 1.00

02:00:28.000 What happened?

02:00:30.000 All right, Bleeding Edge of Free Will.

02:00:32.000 It's a great name for a band, by the way.

02:00:33.000 I like it.

02:00:34.000 I like it.

02:00:34.000 Anybody wants to take it, go ahead.

02:00:36.000 Take it.

02:00:36.000 I got no trademark on that.

02:00:37.000 It's a great name for a band.

02:00:39.000 So, final ceremony, the Air Masada.

02:00:41.000 And I know I have a vague idea that I'm going to do something called Vilca, but I have no idea.

02:00:45.000 That's going to come in the night.

02:00:46.000 But anyway, so we get there, and I'm feeling fucking great.

02:00:49.000 You know, we had the good end of the ceremony that, you know, kind of lead with the heart. 0.72

02:00:52.000 I ended up sleeping well that night.

02:00:54.000 Felt great the next day.

02:00:55.000 It was rioting.

02:00:55.000 Everything was good.

02:00:57.000 So, we go to the air ceremony, and I'm really feeling like a million bucks, as opposed to the last time prior to that.

02:01:05.000 And he looks at me, and before he pours anything, he gives you like a long look.

02:01:09.000 And, you know, I gave that same big old smile from the first day, and he gave a huge smile back.

02:01:13.000 And he starts pouring, and he just fills the cup to the brim. 0.99

02:01:18.000 To the fucking brim. 0.99

02:01:19.000 And I'm like, oh my god. 1.00

02:01:21.000 Like, at least eight ounces of this fucking, of this wachuma. 0.99

02:01:25.000 And it's funny, because it seems like it gets harder every time you take it. 0.99

02:01:28.000 Because even watching, like, Don Robert, this banco curandero shaman, I mean, he chokes it down, because he does the wachuma with us.

02:01:34.000 He chokes it down, like... 0.96

02:01:38.000 You know, because your body is like, oh god, here we go again on this fucking crazy roller coaster into the cosmos. 0.68

02:01:44.000 But anyways, I choke it down and right away, like, the nausea's not there and I'm just starting to feel good. 0.92

02:01:52.000 Not in that same kind of uncontrollable way as the first day, but just in this really kind of positive, good momentum kind of way. 0.95

02:02:01.000 I started playing this Native American flute, and I'm not very good at it, so I was super self-conscious the whole time about playing it, because there's nowhere to do it privately, and everybody would listen, and I kind of suck.

02:02:12.000 I mean, I'm okay. 0.96

02:02:14.000 It bothers you to suck at a flute? 0.99

02:02:15.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:02:16.000 Well, just to like play it and have everybody listen.

02:02:19.000 I don't know.

02:02:20.000 I was self-conscious about it, you know, because I'm not good, I guess. 0.73

02:02:22.000 But anyways, at this medicine, I was like, I'm starting this fucking test game off because last time I failed like every test in the heart of the jungle on my second ceremony. 0.59

02:02:30.000 I was like, this time I made a vow to myself. 0.98

02:02:32.000 I'm like, I'm gonna pass every fucking test. 0.98

02:02:34.000 So we go there and we take the medicine, all good. 0.99

02:02:38.000 We get ready and we're going to go on a long hike this time instead of a boat ride.

02:02:41.000 So we have some time and I brought the flute out and I started playing the flute.

02:02:45.000 And I could tell as I was playing it, yeah, I'm not great, but people kind of dug it because I was playing it as authentically and as good as I possibly can.

02:02:52.000 And so that kind of, for me, started off this first...

02:02:55.000 Ceremony in the right way.

02:02:56.000 I made a choice to go grab the flute and I played it. 0.99

02:02:59.000 It just felt good to not be worried about that shit anymore. 0.99

02:03:02.000 Are you telling me you're starting a band? 1.00

02:03:03.000 Is this how you break it?

02:03:04.000 Are you going to be the new Jethro Tull?

02:03:06.000 I'm bringing the flute back.

02:03:08.000 Jethro Tull was right along.

02:03:10.000 I have two instruments that I can kind of play.

02:03:12.000 It's a flute and a didgeridoo and they don't go together at all.

02:03:14.000 They're perfect.

02:03:15.000 What are you talking about?

02:03:16.000 They just need the right mixture of drugs.

02:03:17.000 The right mixture of drugs and the flute and the didgeridoo is exactly what you want to hear.

02:03:27.000 Yeah, it's true.

02:03:29.000 So the prerequisite for the whole audience will just be to be blasted on something.

02:03:33.000 A Paul Revere type, you know, one of those real patriotic from back when those were the only instruments they had.

02:03:39.000 Like that kind of a tune.

02:03:45.000 It would just highlight the absurdity of our dimension.

02:03:49.000 Totally.

02:03:50.000 Totally.

02:03:50.000 All right.

02:03:50.000 Well, I'll keep that in mind.

02:03:51.000 Yeah.

02:03:52.000 Don't be scared of the flu.

02:03:53.000 So we start on this nature walk and...

02:03:58.000 I kind of get the game that there's going to be tests presented, and you pass them, you feel good. 1.00

02:04:02.000 You don't pass them, you feel like shit. 0.99

02:04:03.000 So we're walking through. 0.99

02:04:04.000 I'm already not stressed about the bugs.

02:04:07.000 Instead of this big shirt and all this crap all over me, I'm just kind of in a tank top. 0.96

02:04:11.000 I got bug spray, and I'm not trying to be a fucking hero, but... 0.95

02:04:14.000 I'm way less stressed about it. 0.97

02:04:15.000 And we're walking along and we have this native guide along with us.

02:04:18.000 And I see this really long black millipede.

02:04:21.000 And all this hundred spindly legs all knuckly and writhing in this weird pattern. 0.85

02:04:27.000 Normally that would freak me the fuck out. 0.76

02:04:29.000 So I see it and I point it out to the guide and she picks it up and lets it crawl in her hand. 0.99

02:04:33.000 And I think to myself, oh fuck, this is a test. 0.98

02:04:35.000 Like I gotta let this thing crawl on me. 0.99

02:04:37.000 To like pass this test of fear. 0.98

02:04:39.000 That's so ridiculous. 0.99

02:04:40.000 You do not need to do that. 0.99

02:04:42.000 You need me to go with you next time you go to the jungle.

02:04:44.000 And go, hey bro, how high are you? 0.99

02:04:47.000 You're about to let a fucking bug that you don't know anything about crawl on you because you think the universe has a test for you. 1.00

02:04:52.000 You're in the bug's house! 1.00

02:04:54.000 The only reason I thought I was safe is because this guy did it.

02:04:56.000 But anyways, at that point...

02:04:58.000 You're going deep with the woo-woo on this episode.

02:05:00.000 Yeah.

02:05:01.000 At that point, I had to let it crawl on me.

02:05:04.000 And so I did.

02:05:05.000 I let it crawl on me.

02:05:06.000 Did you ask any questions about its toxicity?

02:05:09.000 No, the guy didn't speak English.

02:05:10.000 So she was just...

02:05:11.000 So anyways, but it worked out. 0.98

02:05:14.000 It fucking worked out. 0.96

02:05:15.000 So I was good there. 0.99

02:05:17.000 And I felt good afterward.

02:05:19.000 I was like, okay, I conquered that little fear.

02:05:20.000 And then we had another chance to eat some cacao pods.

02:05:24.000 And last time I passed on the cacao pods because I was worried.

02:05:28.000 I hadn't washed my hands and blah, blah, blah. 0.99

02:05:30.000 I was all worried about all this shit. 0.98

02:05:31.000 Did you have like a Howie Mandel type thing? 0.99

02:05:34.000 Well, I kind of did.

02:05:35.000 Yeah, that was kind of like me not trusting the mud. 0.99

02:05:38.000 I was worried about the malaria.

02:05:39.000 I was worried about the mosquitoes.

02:05:40.000 I was worried about...

02:05:41.000 So that was it.

02:05:42.000 So on this third session... 0.98

02:05:45.000 The cacao pod comes and I'm like, alright, this is another fucking opportunity to just not be stressed and eat like all the rest of the people. 0.97

02:05:51.000 So you dig your fingers in this kind of gooey, placenta-y fruit and then pull out this pod that's kind of like an embryo. 0.97

02:05:59.000 It's really weird.

02:06:00.000 And I plopped it in my mouth and it was great.

02:06:03.000 Tasted delicious.

02:06:04.000 I could kind of feel a little burst of energy from the cocoa.

02:06:07.000 And I was like, all right, sweet.

02:06:08.000 So I'm off to a good start.

02:06:10.000 We're headed up to the altar.

02:06:11.000 And I start to realize that life is just a series of these choices. 0.99

02:06:15.000 And you can either let, you know, fears that you've had prevent you from doing this, like Howie Mandel, like constantly living in a world where he's afraid of all kinds of shit. 0.70

02:06:25.000 And that's making him choose this thing over this thing. 0.83

02:06:28.000 Or you can kind of go the other way and choose not to be afraid of those things.

02:06:32.000 Yeah, recognize when there is danger.

02:06:34.000 I'm not saying don't recognize danger.

02:06:36.000 But to separate the fear from danger, which will allow you a broader spectrum of choices, which will give you gifts of things like the ability to eat a cacao pod fresh out of the jungle when you're blasted on Wachuma, which is something I was afraid of doing the last time, but I wasn't afraid of this time.

02:06:53.000 What were you afraid of?

02:06:54.000 Like taking in a parasite or something?

02:06:56.000 Yeah, something like that.

02:06:57.000 Some kind of germs that are on my hand. 0.98

02:06:59.000 I don't fucking know. 0.98

02:06:59.000 Is that really common? 0.98

02:07:00.000 Does that happen to a lot of people down there?

02:07:02.000 Like what are the...

02:07:03.000 I mean, you hear stories, but I don't know what in relation to how many people go down there, those stories...

02:07:08.000 You know, I don't know the statistics, and obviously there's some risk, but there's also, you know, tons of people who are going through, a bunch of people in our group that did it and were fine, a bunch of people go down there all the time and do it and they're fine.

02:07:20.000 It's not like if a lot of people were getting sick from that, they'd cut that out of the program.

02:07:23.000 Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

02:07:24.000 It's like people worry about it and they'll worry about malaria. 0.98

02:07:26.000 Like, maybe, yeah, but do you know how many fucking people are going down there? 0.99

02:07:29.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:07:29.000 There's a lot of goddamn people going down there on a regular. 1.00

02:07:31.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:07:32.000 Justin Wren.

02:07:34.000 He's the UFC fighter that went down there.

02:07:37.000 You guys sent him a bunch of stuff.

02:07:39.000 He's into Alpha Brain, and he's the one who's got that Fight for the Forgotten charity for the people of the Congo.

02:07:46.000 And he got crazy sick down there.

02:07:49.000 He got some sort of horrible jungle bug.

02:07:54.000 I mean, typhoid fever or something like that, something nutty like that.

02:07:57.000 Dengue fever.

02:07:58.000 Yeah, it might have been that.

02:08:00.000 Whatever it was, he was on death's door. 0.99

02:08:02.000 It really fucked him up. 0.97

02:08:03.000 You've got to be careful. 0.97

02:08:04.000 Some places are worse than others.

02:08:05.000 Peru is in that kind of, that still happens, but it's still pretty benign, and especially in this area.

02:08:10.000 That's a scary thing. 0.94

02:08:11.000 When you're around a bug that can kill people, like a flu that feels like a flu that's so much more powerful than anything you've experienced before, you're like, oh shit, I might not get out of this one. 0.88

02:08:23.000 That's what I was terrified of.

02:08:25.000 And that's what was the resistance that almost prevented me from having what I will credit as the greatest week of my life.

02:08:31.000 It almost stopped me from doing that. 0.97

02:08:33.000 And obviously it's a week out and I'm healthy as fuck. 0.91

02:08:35.000 And I made assuredly the absolute right choice and it worked out. 0.91

02:08:41.000 But again, so that was kind of the message that you just have a bunch of these choices and accurately assessing danger versus your fears and everything that you pile on top.

02:08:52.000 So we're approaching the place we're going to do the afternoon landing spot, which is this kind of sky deck overlooking the jungle. 0.96

02:08:58.000 And I wanted to take my shoes off as I walked up there, so I just fucking did it. 0.51

02:09:02.000 I took my shoes off, didn't worry about the mosquitoes. 0.91

02:09:04.000 And that felt great, just feeling the grass and the mud on my feet. 0.66

02:09:07.000 It was a short walk, so there wasn't any crazy shit going on in the brush or anything I had to worry about. 0.78

02:09:14.000 We get up there, and I go to lie down. 0.97

02:09:17.000 And I had taken, again, I had taken the most wachuma I'd taken at any point ever. 0.99

02:09:22.000 So I'm more blasted than I have been the whole trip, because I got eight ounces instead of six.

02:09:27.000 And I go to lie down and I'm pondering this idea of choice a lot and fears and, you know, feeling pretty good because everything that's happened, I was past these tests.

02:09:35.000 And I see this little ant crawling towards me to my right hand side. 0.99

02:09:38.000 And I look and I go, oh fuck, there's an ant coming. 0.99

02:09:41.000 And so I totally broke my train of thought, stood straight up. 1.00

02:09:44.000 And then I look back at that ant and I just realized, holy shit, I just let that little fucking ant have the power over me to make me sit up, lose my train of consciousness, and completely move on his behalf. 0.99

02:09:57.000 And it wasn't like a deadly poisonous ant, it was just an ant. 0.99

02:10:01.000 And then I thought to myself, how many other of these little things that are truly ants in our existence?

02:10:07.000 Fears, worries, paranoias, relationships that you feel crunchy about in a certain way or like something that's uncomfortable to you in a situation or that you're projecting and your simulator is worried about.

02:10:20.000 These little things that when in reality are no more than these ants which are harmless.

02:10:25.000 What caused you to choose actions that aren't in your best interest?

02:10:31.000 Because we give them power, we give them the power over us to make us move, they do have power.

02:10:37.000 Well, I think it's what we were discussing before, that it relates to this, is that you truly can't appreciate your freedom unless you're in some sort of a struggle to maintain it.

02:10:49.000 It's a very strange thing.

02:10:53.000 These things that you're saying have this power over us.

02:10:57.000 We give them this power.

02:10:58.000 They're also causing massive amounts of self-examination and assessments of why there's this conflict in the first place.

02:11:06.000 When you're conscious.

02:11:08.000 Yes.

02:11:08.000 There's lessons to be learned in conflict in that you realize the futility of conflict.

02:11:13.000 And I think without those lessons, when people are trying to nerf the world and avoid all the conflicts, we lose the actual lessons that are available in these life experiences and these lessons of understanding the repercussions of shitty behavior,

02:11:28.000 understanding what true violence is really all about.

02:11:32.000 Understanding how it can be turned around. 0.95

02:11:34.000 Watching guys hug it out after they have a fist fight for fucking ten minutes and respect each other for it. 0.65

02:11:39.000 I'm not saying you should do that, but there's a reality of them hugging it out. 0.71

02:11:44.000 They're like, okay, well, on a microcosm, this works.

02:11:46.000 Why can't this work for the whole human race?

02:11:49.000 Because if we go to war, there's no hugging! 0.95

02:11:51.000 You know, but sometimes after you duke it out with each other, you realize how ridiculous it is. 0.69

02:11:55.000 And that's better than war, you know? 1.00

02:11:58.000 And people who would think that that's savagery or that don't understand and like, we have to stop all this horrible shit that's going on. 0.97

02:12:05.000 We should definitely encourage everyone to be nice. 0.93

02:12:08.000 But along the way, the errors...

02:12:11.000 Are where we're going to learn.

02:12:13.000 And it's an integral part of developing human consciousness.

02:12:18.000 It's a very important part.

02:12:20.000 The conflict is there so that you can learn from it.

02:12:23.000 It's not there so that it shapes your life and defines your future, though. 0.98

02:12:26.000 And that's where people get fucked up. 0.84

02:12:28.000 That's where bullying is so horrible because it gives them an equation that they can't emotionally solve. 0.99

02:12:34.000 They're left in this deficit that they feel it's futile.

02:12:38.000 They can't pull out of it and then they go into a funk and a depression.

02:12:41.000 And it's because somewhere along the line someone almost in a way you could say stole their freedom.

02:12:47.000 Stole their happiness.

02:12:48.000 They took it from them.

02:12:49.000 They took it from them with an act.

02:12:51.000 And, you know, I think we kind of recognize that as human beings.

02:12:54.000 This is why rapists get beaten up in prison.

02:12:57.000 You know, I mean, why do they go after child molesters in prison with such vicious attacks?

02:13:04.000 Yeah, you took something sacred.

02:13:06.000 But ultimately, you have the choice, all of these people, however difficult it may be, to take that freedom back.

02:13:13.000 And whether you can do it, maybe you can't do it in action.

02:13:17.000 Maybe you're going to be subject to somebody doing something bad to you.

02:13:21.000 But you can always decide, and I'm not saying it's fucking easy, not saying I can do it, whatever.

02:13:26.000 But you can always decide how you let that affect you.

02:13:28.000 Whether that's simply an impetus of pain, or whether that deeply changes you and is suffering.

02:13:34.000 And you see that accounts from different people who've handled POW camps. 0.99

02:13:38.000 They're stuck in the fucking POW camp. 1.00

02:13:40.000 You can't escape. 1.00

02:13:41.000 And for some people, or in Auschwitz, you see different survivors talking about different things.

02:13:47.000 Some of them, it was pure suffering, and they took every single fiber of their humanity from these people.

02:13:55.000 And some people were able to make a choice that...

02:13:58.000 All they're doing is creating pain, but I'm going to keep my own sacred autonomy of what my feelings towards that are going to be.

02:14:06.000 And at the very end, that's the ultimate choice that we always have.

02:14:10.000 Maybe we can't control the input that's coming in, but we can control our attitude towards it.

02:14:16.000 And that's the last thing that nobody can take from us.

02:14:18.000 And most importantly, we can control our output.

02:14:21.000 And our output is someone else's input.

02:14:24.000 And that's something that a lot of people...

02:14:28.000 We're good to go.

02:14:52.000 That attacks a negative just creates more negative.

02:14:55.000 It's just the only way it works.

02:14:57.000 And sometimes it's the only way.

02:14:59.000 That's the other problem with being a human being. 1.00

02:15:01.000 Sometimes you're walking down an alley and there's a bunch of people that are going to fuck with you. 0.99

02:15:07.000 And there's nothing you can do about it. 1.00

02:15:09.000 You could either let them beat you up.

02:15:11.000 You could fight.

02:15:12.000 You could run.

02:15:13.000 But you're going to have to deal with a real-life situation.

02:15:16.000 So there's no black or white in this crazy world.

02:15:19.000 It's not everything that happens to you manifested with your imagination and your intent.

02:15:23.000 No.

02:15:24.000 But a lot, yes.

02:15:25.000 You know, it's not everything.

02:15:26.000 No.

02:15:27.000 But a lot of it is how much work can you get done in your lifetime to make sure that less people experience bad things in their lifetimes.

02:15:37.000 That is a real ripple.

02:15:38.000 And that ripple effect is happening right now from someone listening to this. 1.00

02:15:42.000 Gare, run, fucking deed. 0.99

02:15:44.000 From listening to your story, listening to your depictions, Coinciding them with their own instincts and feelings and maybe a few experiences they've had and then choosing an ethic. 0.99

02:15:53.000 And that idea and that choice of choosing an ethic can change the future, can change the experiences that people have.

02:16:01.000 If you look back on history and you look back at the horrific things that the Romans did and the Spartans did and All these people did when they were going to war with some other people.

02:16:12.000 If you look back at just the mounds of awful stories that we could just go back and find out about all the different slayings that the Mongol Empire took part in, that the Romans took part in, that the...

02:16:27.000 I mean, just over and over and over again throughout history, all these horrific, terrifying acts of humanity.

02:16:33.000 And think about what it would be like if we didn't know about those.

02:16:38.000 Think about what if they happen and we didn't learn.

02:16:41.000 Think about what, well, it's terrible that they happen.

02:16:44.000 It is definitely terrible, but that we know that that can happen ever is important.

02:16:51.000 It's important that we know that this whole thing is just this chaotic scramble for recognition of the state of consciousness we're in.

02:17:00.000 This chaotic scramble.

02:17:01.000 What's going on?

02:17:02.000 This is my land. 1.00

02:17:02.000 That's my pussy. 1.00

02:17:03.000 This is my gold. 1.00

02:17:04.000 Oh, my heart stirruped.

02:17:05.000 Boom.

02:17:06.000 And then start all over again. 1.00

02:17:08.000 And then new bodies and your genes pass on to another new meat vehicle that's carrying consciousness and it tries to deal with all the stupid shit that you taught it and like, oh my god, this motherfucker was wrong about almost everything. 1.00

02:17:18.000 And now my heart stops. 1.00

02:17:20.000 Boom.

02:17:20.000 And then you hope that you taught your kids a little something so they can...

02:17:24.000 My dad was semi-retarded most of his life. 1.00

02:17:26.000 But he told me when he started getting older that he realized the maze.

02:17:29.000 And he saw that the puzzle was ridiculous because there's no solution.

02:17:32.000 And in the moment, this is the key.

02:17:34.000 The key is staying in the moment.

02:17:35.000 And then he died.

02:17:36.000 And then you remember that from the jump.

02:17:38.000 So you go through life as like Kwai Chang Kane with a modern-day cell phone.

02:17:44.000 And you just...

02:17:45.000 Try to figure out your interaction with all these people.

02:17:48.000 But we're a part of this crazy ripple.

02:17:51.000 It just doesn't seem like it because we're in it.

02:17:53.000 It doesn't seem like it because we're a part of it, because it's just life to us.

02:17:57.000 It's, you know, what happens today?

02:17:58.000 Well, I get up in the morning, I turn on my computer, and I find out what's happening in the world.

02:18:01.000 Where's the news stories?

02:18:03.000 That's what I do.

02:18:04.000 But what is that?

02:18:06.000 What is anything that you do in life?

02:18:08.000 What are any of these patterns that you follow?

02:18:09.000 What are any of these things you do? 0.57

02:18:11.000 It's just consciousness expressing itself, trying to figure out what the fuck is going on, and trying to make some sort of an account of all the things that are going on around you all the time.

02:18:21.000 Because there's so many of them. 0.79

02:18:23.000 So all of these things that seem to happen automatically until you find a point where you get to that ultimate stillness.

02:18:30.000 And you can do that in a float tank.

02:18:32.000 You can do that in a medicine journey.

02:18:34.000 You can do that in good meditation or even yoga.

02:18:36.000 But in order to properly chart your course at any level, you have to find that stillness.

02:18:41.000 But then the next level beyond that was right where I'm at here in this story.

02:18:46.000 So Don Howard comes over to me and he starts doing his thing, asks me to kneel, and he starts using the feather over my head.

02:18:53.000 And I could feel like a weird transformation happening in my body this kind of invincibility that I started to feel at that moment and it was This strange kind of feeling of I was kind of crouched over the top of the jungle and I started to feel kind of like a rumble in my throat,

02:19:11.000 almost like a growl.

02:19:13.000 And I could feel like my toes start to grip in.

02:19:16.000 And it was almost like I was transforming myself then into this big cat that was out looking over the jungle and had absolutely no fear.

02:19:24.000 Nothing, the mosquitoes couldn't hurt me.

02:19:28.000 My other fears wouldn't bother me.

02:19:30.000 Death was no threat.

02:19:32.000 Nothing at that very moment could actually harm me.

02:19:36.000 And I realized at that bleeding edge of invincibility, at that bleeding edge of fearlessness, not that a bullet couldn't kill me, I'm not trying to be crazy, but how I felt then was completely without fear for the very first time in my life.

02:19:50.000 Absolutely nothing scared me.

02:19:52.000 And at that point, I realized that was the only time I've ever had complete free will.

02:19:57.000 Because only at the very edge of your fearlessness is nothing pushing, pulling you, prodding you.

02:20:04.000 You have no attachments to anything because you're not afraid of losing anything.

02:20:08.000 Because losing anything wouldn't hurt you.

02:20:10.000 You're completely fearless at that.

02:20:12.000 I was completely fearless at that point.

02:20:14.000 And that was the very first time I had complete free will.

02:20:17.000 And that feeling is something I'll never forget.

02:20:20.000 And I realize that all of these people that talk about the determinism of life, oh, it's genetics, oh, it's environment, there's a place that you can get to where you have absolute choice.

02:20:32.000 And maybe you can't stay there. 0.98

02:20:33.000 I'm not saying that I'm like that now, but I can remember that fucking place. 0.96

02:20:37.000 And I can remember being completely 100% fearless and knowing that I could choose anything Anything I wanted in my life. 0.97

02:20:45.000 And it would be my authentic choice.

02:20:47.000 Not pushed or prodded by any other factor.

02:20:50.000 And that was perhaps the greatest gift I've ever gotten in my life.

02:20:54.000 And one of the reasons why this trip was maybe the best thing I've ever done. 0.99

02:20:59.000 That's some deep shit, son. 0.99

02:21:00.000 I'm taking it all in right now. 1.00

02:21:02.000 That's some deep shit. 0.99

02:21:05.000 That conversation is very puzzling to me. 1.00

02:21:08.000 And I've heard people say that it's very simple.

02:21:12.000 It's very simple.

02:21:12.000 Free will doesn't exist.

02:21:14.000 It's very simple.

02:21:15.000 It can be proven.

02:21:15.000 It can be proven by tests.

02:21:17.000 Well, then how come you decided to go on a diet?

02:21:20.000 What happened there?

02:21:21.000 I know this is a retarded version of the actual events, and I know that they're scientifically proved in some form or fashion that your decisions are decided for you before you ever decide them. 0.97

02:21:36.000 Not buying it. 0.97

02:21:37.000 I don't know how the fuck you know when someone decided it. 0.99

02:21:40.000 A part of their brain was lit up or an impulse. 0.97

02:21:43.000 And you know that that represents consciousness to 100% extent that you know that that's not the origin of the very thought itself.

02:21:51.000 That it comes and ripples and affects different states of the mind at different times in the decision.

02:21:55.000 Are you absolutely sure?

02:21:57.000 I do not believe that the data is that conclusive yet. 0.99

02:22:02.000 And from what I experienced, I can fucking tell you with assurity, I would put anything on the line that that is fucking nonsense. 0.97

02:22:09.000 By the way, I have no idea what I'm talking about. 0.99

02:22:11.000 I know nothing about neuroscience.

02:22:13.000 So everything I say might be completely frustrating to you.

02:22:14.000 Well, they're saying that six seconds before a choice, something triggers in the brain.

02:22:20.000 How is that possible?

02:22:21.000 There's some choices that you make immediately.

02:22:23.000 They're less than six seconds.

02:22:24.000 Yeah.

02:22:25.000 It doesn't make any sense. 1.00

02:22:26.000 Do you want to eat shit? 1.00

02:22:27.000 No. 1.00

02:22:28.000 What is that?

02:22:29.000 Is that free will?

02:22:30.000 No, there's no free will.

02:22:31.000 Come on, son. 0.99

02:22:32.000 From what I experienced, there is fucking free will. 0.99

02:22:34.000 And robbing people of that, robbing is one of the things that are most detrimental. 0.99

02:22:39.000 I think it's a semantics argument.

02:22:42.000 Because I think the idea of, is there completely free will?

02:22:47.000 Well, then, what are you saying when you're saying free will?

02:22:51.000 I mean, are you free of emotional baggage?

02:22:53.000 Are you free of memory? 0.99

02:22:54.000 Are you free of genetic memory, fears, all sorts of phobias that may or may not have been passed down through your fucking DNA and you don't even know why you're crazy about them? 0.99

02:23:04.000 Are you free of all that? 0.99

02:23:05.000 Not necessarily. 1.00

02:23:06.000 But can you decide, you know what, fuck this man, I don't like this shit. 1.00

02:23:10.000 I need to get my fucking life in order. 1.00

02:23:12.000 Can you make a choice? 1.00

02:23:13.000 Write something down and make a choice.

02:23:15.000 What is that?

02:23:15.000 That's not free will.

02:23:16.000 I don't understand it.

02:23:17.000 I don't understand your argument.

02:23:18.000 I can understand what you're saying about there's some things going on in the brain.

02:23:22.000 That determine decisions before the person believes they decided, before they actually have consciously realized they decided.

02:23:31.000 But isn't that like how a decision works?

02:23:34.000 I mean, obviously, and I keep qualifying this, but I am almost retarded. 0.99

02:23:38.000 But if you're having this sort of conversation about anything else other than the human mind, like if it was about a computer program, it'd be pretty traceable.

02:23:47.000 You'll be able to trace the code.

02:23:48.000 You'll be able to see where the sequence takes place, where's the variation, what's going on where you could, you know, watch this deviation or this path. 0.97

02:23:56.000 But with a human mind, like, god damn, there's a lot going on in being a person and making decisions, changing your mind. 0.91

02:24:02.000 What's changing your mind? 0.99

02:24:03.000 The thing that these neuroscientists are failing to recognize is there is a human mind.

02:24:07.000 By the way, that's a meme.

02:24:08.000 The thing these neuroscientists are failing to recognize, that'll be a meme.

02:24:13.000 Well, I think maybe some of them do, but I firmly believe, and I've experienced this, that there is the mind, and then there's another thing called consciousness.

02:24:22.000 And that consciousness, it works through the mind, and it's interconnected with it, but it isn't just the mind.

02:24:28.000 And it's the consciousness aspect of you where the free will resides.

02:24:32.000 So the neurologist or neuroscientist may be able to prove via the mind all of these different facts, but the consciousness is ineffable.

02:24:41.000 It's not subject to tests.

02:24:42.000 I have a similar take on it, but slightly different, in that I do believe that the issue might be in just labeling it something with these feeble human words.

02:24:53.000 I think that might be the issue in calling something consciousness at all.

02:24:57.000 I think whatever it is that you experience in the psychedelic state, you're not qualified to describe, and you're not qualified to cast a judgment on what revelations that your little puny mind makes when you're over there.

02:25:08.000 Because you're in the face of something that's so impossible to believe. 0.96

02:25:14.000 So impossible for the imagination to conjure up that it defies all your silly little words.

02:25:20.000 So when you start saying things like, you know, we start using consciousness in a sense that we use it to sort of lay down a scaffolding of ideas so I can understand what you're talking about.

02:25:30.000 But I don't know what that means.

02:25:32.000 And I don't think anybody does.

02:25:34.000 That's why someone who's been doing it for 50 years isn't going to try and tell you.

02:25:37.000 Exactly.

02:25:38.000 They just have to show you.

02:25:39.000 Yeah, they don't need to, like, this is consciousness, but this is the soul.

02:25:42.000 Hey, man, I'm not sure you're right.

02:25:45.000 I think the whole thing might be together.

02:25:48.000 We have these ideas of, this is the human brain, and guess what?

02:25:52.000 The human brain is touching the whole thing. 0.99

02:25:54.000 The human brain directly touches the center of the fucking universe. 1.00

02:25:58.000 Do you know why? 1.00

02:25:59.000 Because there's no empty space.

02:26:01.000 Even in a vacuum, there's stuff out there.

02:26:04.000 There's dark matter. 1.00

02:26:05.000 There's fucking air on Earth. 0.99

02:26:08.000 There's a direct connection between something, some atom, some object, some physical, some gas, something connects everything. 0.99

02:26:18.000 This idea of space is a really relative concept.

02:26:22.000 And if you really look at it, no, no, no, no, no, no.

02:26:25.000 You're at the bottom of the universe, which is an ocean.

02:26:29.000 It's an infinite ocean.

02:26:30.000 The idea that there's all this air.

02:26:33.000 No, it's just different stuff.

02:26:35.000 It's still all connected.

02:26:37.000 The whole thing is a big soup.

02:26:39.000 The whole thing.

02:26:39.000 You don't get away from the big soup.

02:26:42.000 The ecstasy of dichotomy.

02:26:44.000 Yeah, I mean, there's sort of gaps in the cheese here and there, but ultimately, it's all connected.

02:26:48.000 It's all connected. 0.87

02:26:49.000 Spiraled like a, you know, I mean, look, you can look at a fucking sponge, and you can say, is that thing connected? 0.97

02:26:54.000 Well, I mean, so there's a lot of holes in it. 0.99

02:26:57.000 It's fucking connected! 0.98

02:26:58.000 There's a beginning and an end. 1.00

02:26:59.000 Shut up, stupid. 1.00

02:27:01.000 You get it wet, the whole thing's getting wet. 1.00

02:27:03.000 It's fucking connected. 0.99

02:27:04.000 It doesn't matter if your holes are in there. 1.00

02:27:05.000 That's you and the universe. 1.00

02:27:09.000 That's you and the universe are like a fucking sponge. 1.00

02:27:13.000 Like you're not getting away with anything. 1.00

02:27:15.000 Your brain, your consciousness, your mind, they're all the same thing.

02:27:19.000 It's all the universe.

02:27:21.000 We just have compartmentalized our biology. 0.60

02:27:24.000 In these very specific ways in our attempt to understand what the fuck is going on as we wake up at the front wheel of this spaceship as it hurls into the sky. 0.80

02:27:33.000 Like, what is it? 0.97

02:27:34.000 Okay, this is the brain.

02:27:35.000 Agreed?

02:27:35.000 Okay, it's all the brain.

02:27:36.000 The brain is independent of the spinal cord, and when the spinal cord is severed, the brain can no longer communicate.

02:27:42.000 Agreed.

02:27:43.000 And we figure out how this little biological creature works.

02:27:46.000 Well, this creature is just a reacting part of the soup of the universe, slowly getting to try to understand itself during this very brief, finite, and obscure existence that's a part of the infinity.

02:27:59.000 And it's all just popping off while you're trying to figure it out as it's happening.

02:28:04.000 That's us, man.

02:28:05.000 Indeed.

02:28:06.000 Indeed.

02:28:07.000 Well, I want to tell the story of the Vilca because that's the final thing.

02:28:11.000 This is the DMT snuff.

02:28:12.000 So we leave the thing.

02:28:13.000 Three days of the other ship.

02:28:15.000 Yep.

02:28:15.000 So this is the same night.

02:28:16.000 So this is the same night.

02:28:18.000 So I leave the temple.

02:28:19.000 I felt myself feeling like a big cat and that feeling of fearlessness, bleeding edge of free will, that experience go down. 0.70

02:28:25.000 I'm feeling just fucking amazing at this point. 0.54

02:28:28.000 I'm like, wow, this is awesome.

02:28:30.000 But I know we're going to do the Vilca. 0.90

02:28:31.000 And the way Don Howard described it is, he says, you know, tonight we get a chance to go home.

02:28:37.000 And he just said it just like that.

02:28:39.000 And he didn't need to say much more than that, but you knew that it was, he's like, if you do it right, you go home.

02:28:44.000 And I was like, whoa, all right.

02:28:46.000 And at this point, I had just such immense faith in what he was doing that I was like, all right, this is going to be pretty significant.

02:28:52.000 Walking into the hut, I put into practice what I'd learned up there.

02:28:55.000 Usually on the way to the hut, I was like someone scurrying from one foxhole to the other because I was worried about mosquitoes. 0.97

02:29:02.000 I was like, I'm going to just walk into this fucking hut at my pace when I want to. 0.97

02:29:06.000 I'm not going to let the mosquitoes bother me. 0.98

02:29:08.000 And little choices like that were already ways that I was putting into practice this knowledge that I got, which is why I love the wachuma so much.

02:29:16.000 So I take my time, walk into the hut, take a seat, and he brings out the snuff tray and the snuff...

02:29:27.000 The snuff tube, basically.

02:29:28.000 But the snuff tube is not just a normal snuff tube.

02:29:30.000 It's a 4,000-year-old, what looks like a human metatarsal bone, like a bone from the knuckle bone from your foot, that's hollowed down the center that the Shavin people themselves had used to snuff the vilka some 3,500 years ago. 0.99

02:29:44.000 And the tray itself that held the vilka was 3,500 years old, used for exactly that purpose. 0.97

02:29:52.000 And he smiles to us and he says, Now, this thing is used.

02:29:56.000 It's not new.

02:29:58.000 And he just kind of smiles and we chuckle a little bit.

02:30:01.000 And still, at the very edge of doing this most intense DMT experience, he's got a little chuckle and a laugh.

02:30:07.000 And that was one of the beautiful things of this.

02:30:09.000 So anyways, this guy goes before me and he's kind of struggling with it and having a challenging time.

02:30:15.000 And he finally gets some down.

02:30:17.000 And then after you do it, you're supposed to go to your room.

02:30:20.000 How do they get it up your nose? 0.99

02:30:23.000 I'll tell you when I'm going.

02:30:24.000 I hop up there, and I look at it, and it's hollowed straight down the middle.

02:30:29.000 I don't know how they did this without a drill, but it's like this hollow.

02:30:33.000 I guess they had something they just twisted until they went through.

02:30:35.000 Probably like when they start a fire.

02:30:37.000 Yeah, totally.

02:30:38.000 So it's like a knuckle bone, but it's longer, and it's hollowed straight down the center of it.

02:30:44.000 And so you put the knuckle in your nose, one knuckle in your nose, and then the other knuckle has been cut off in a certain way that lays flat in the tray.

02:30:52.000 And then it's this bunch of brown powder that's all in there.

02:30:55.000 And you basically just...

02:30:57.000 In one nostril and then in the other nostril as hard as you can go.

02:31:02.000 And so he gets up there and he gives it to me.

02:31:07.000 I put it in my, you know, I got a big nose so that helped out.

02:31:10.000 So I stick the knuckle in my nose and I just take a rip in one nostril, take a huge rip in the other nostril.

02:31:16.000 And at that point, I mean, it burned like hell.

02:31:19.000 But more than that, it felt like...

02:31:20.000 You ever watch the old Highlander when he cut someone's head off?

02:31:23.000 Yeah.

02:31:23.000 And he was like absorbing the soul of a vanquished foe?

02:31:26.000 Yeah.

02:31:26.000 It was like the most incredible power coursing through me.

02:31:30.000 I was like...

02:31:32.000 Whoa, like just shaking, like lightning struck me.

02:31:35.000 It was a really crazy feeling.

02:31:37.000 So it's a painful feeling, and at the same time, it's burning, at the same time, intense DMT trip.

02:31:42.000 Yeah, well, not yet.

02:31:44.000 So it didn't kick in the DMT part, but just something electric happened.

02:31:47.000 Like, I just got hit with lightning. 0.99

02:31:49.000 Like, my body knew, like, oh, fuck. 0.99

02:31:51.000 Like, something crazy is going to happen. 1.00

02:31:53.000 So Don Howard just looks at me and he knew I got a bunch of it.

02:31:56.000 So he goes, you better go to your room.

02:31:59.000 And just kind of said that with a smile.

02:32:01.000 I take off out of the hut and I go to the room and everybody else is going to go.

02:32:05.000 So I start lying down in the bed.

02:32:06.000 It's completely dark.

02:32:07.000 I got a blindfold on.

02:32:09.000 And, you know, the snuff is still kind of burning a little bit.

02:32:13.000 And then a pretty familiar DMT experience starts to happen.

02:32:18.000 That kind of chrysanthemum of energy.

02:32:20.000 Except it's way fucking thicker than I've ever seen it.

02:32:23.000 I'm used to like seeing it above me in this kind of thing. 0.88

02:32:27.000 But this was completely through me.

02:32:30.000 It wasn't like I was looking at it.

02:32:33.000 I was it.

02:32:34.000 I was this nexus of energy and lights and spider web.

02:32:38.000 And there was really no separation between me and it, which is an experience that I've never had.

02:32:43.000 I've always kind of known myself and then this other.

02:32:47.000 And I was able to kind of look at...

02:32:49.000 At the other as myself. 0.99

02:32:51.000 This, I was like, oh fuck, I am becoming this thing. 0.99

02:32:54.000 I am not really myself anymore. 0.98

02:32:57.000 Except occasionally things would happen to my body.

02:33:00.000 I'd be like, okay, body's still there, but it was in this weird, like it was in another room or something like that.

02:33:06.000 So that happens and I kind of pass through that section and then I find myself in this, you know, that whole nexus of light, the chrysanthemum, whatever, that DMT thing is gone.

02:33:16.000 And I find myself in this room with a bunch of different spirits.

02:33:19.000 And one is like this hairy hippopotamus looking frog man with a staff.

02:33:25.000 And then there's these other figures in hoods.

02:33:28.000 And then there's these figures all around me. 0.99

02:33:30.000 And I feel like I'm in this neighborhood bar and everybody's kind of looking at me like, what the fuck are you doing here? 1.00

02:33:34.000 You don't belong here. 0.98

02:33:36.000 So I say, I say, you know, if it's in the greatest good, if anybody wants to speak with me, you know, please do so. 0.99

02:33:42.000 And all the spirits just kind of look at me like, hmm, not in a mean way, but just like, nah, I ain't got shit for you. 0.96

02:33:50.000 So I'm sitting there for a second, and then I say, Grandma, you hear? 0.98

02:33:56.000 And, uh...

02:33:59.000 And so, you know, I was really close with my grandma.

02:34:02.000 She's on my tattoo here.

02:34:04.000 And I asked her, I said, Grandma, are you here?

02:34:08.000 And to my left, she started approaching in the most familiar, you know, way that I remember probably from when I was, you know, 10 or 12 in that kind of form.

02:34:19.000 I remember the clothes she was wearing and her face and now everything was.

02:34:23.000 And she said, Hey, Aubrey.

02:34:25.000 And in her voice...

02:34:27.000 And I held out my hand.

02:34:31.000 My left hand.

02:34:33.000 And she grabbed ahold of my hand. 0.99

02:34:35.000 And I could feel it.

02:34:36.000 Just like her same weathered hand used to be when I would hold her hand as a kid.

02:34:42.000 And we started talking.

02:34:45.000 And we talked for a few minutes.

02:34:48.000 And then, you know, said we loved each other.

02:34:52.000 And I said, Grandma, I gotta go now.

02:34:54.000 She said, Yeah, I know.

02:34:56.000 And I let go.

02:35:00.000 And she left.

02:35:02.000 And then I started the process of coming back into my body.

02:35:07.000 But how real that moment was, you know? 0.99

02:35:11.000 I mean, you could say it's all in my mind and it's a projection of my grandma, but I could feel her fucking hand. 0.99

02:35:18.000 I could hear her voice. 0.98

02:35:19.000 And I know what she said to me.

02:35:22.000 It doesn't matter what anybody wants to try and explain that.

02:35:25.000 That was my grandma. 0.85

02:35:27.000 That was her. 0.97

02:35:28.000 Well, this is a very touchy subject for people because people love calling bullshit on these kind of stories. 0.95

02:35:33.000 Yeah. 0.73

02:35:33.000 But this is what's really important. 0.73

02:35:35.000 It doesn't matter whether or not it was a hallucination or whether it was actually your grandmother.

02:35:41.000 It's the exact same experience.

02:35:44.000 It still is that experience.

02:35:45.000 It was.

02:35:46.000 That is what's really crazy about a psychedelic, is that it may be able to bring your grandmother to you.

02:35:52.000 It might really be able to do that.

02:35:54.000 That might be real.

02:35:56.000 It might be a hallucination, but it's the same experience as if your grandmother came to you.

02:36:01.000 That's a really weird thing for people to adjust to, that the idea that there's more than one possibility going on here, and the idea that you don't have to debunk this.

02:36:10.000 You don't have to debunk something, first of all, that you haven't personally experienced, and two, that it doesn't matter.

02:36:16.000 The debunking is not important.

02:36:18.000 It's very important not to get caught up in some crazy woo-woo cult-like faith healer nonsense.

02:36:25.000 You're right.

02:36:25.000 It's very...

02:36:27.000 If you really don't believe him, take it yourself. 0.97

02:36:31.000 And until then, shut your mouth.

02:36:34.000 I understand you're trying to be all scientific and everything, and I understand that, you know, I take offense with these pseudoscientific explanations for what can be Easily explained by modern science, the workings of the human mind. 0.72

02:36:47.000 I don't think so. 0.73

02:36:48.000 I don't think we've even dipped our toes into what the fuck being a conscious entity in the universe really truly is. 0.94

02:36:57.000 I don't think we have. 0.68

02:36:59.000 And so for anybody, you know, I didn't have any of this kind of unfinished business or anything.

02:37:04.000 It was just an amazing opportunity to connect with her, you know.

02:37:07.000 But for me, the change, the truth of that experience, you know, for someone who did have...

02:37:12.000 And not that this happens to everybody and this is reproducible and you go in with this expectation.

02:37:17.000 I'm going to do Vilka and talk to my dead relative who I wanted to say I love you to.

02:37:21.000 That may happen.

02:37:22.000 It may not.

02:37:23.000 So don't go with expectations.

02:37:24.000 But for me, this is my experience and this is what...

02:37:28.000 What happened to me in this Vilca ceremony?

02:37:32.000 See, when people say, is it reproducible?

02:37:35.000 Yes and no. 0.98

02:37:36.000 DMT is reproducibly ridiculous. 0.85

02:37:39.000 But if you think that the exact same experience is reproducible, what you are ignorant of is the catalog of possible events. 0.90

02:37:50.000 Stop and think of that.

02:37:51.000 The catalog of possible events is infinite.

02:37:56.000 And the universe of DMT dimension, the DMT experience, when you tap into that, what it really truly represents is something you had no idea you could ever even think up if you're just thinking it up.

02:38:09.000 You had no idea it was there, and it becomes infinitely more complex the more you pay attention to it.

02:38:15.000 It's never ending.

02:38:17.000 It can change constantly.

02:38:19.000 Saying this in my little feeble attempt at using human language to describe this experience is so useless. 0.99

02:38:27.000 It's so silly. 0.84

02:38:29.000 But the point is that along the way...

02:38:33.000 You realize that, yeah, you could probably reproduce it, but it doesn't matter because it's not the same thing for a tenth of a second.

02:38:40.000 Every tenth of a second, it's a new thing.

02:38:42.000 An impossible new thing.

02:38:45.000 Like, okay, now I understand, well, there's these colors and there's these... 0.99

02:38:48.000 Oh, what the fuck is this? 0.99

02:38:50.000 Oh, what is this? 0.99

02:38:50.000 This is a new thing. 0.99

02:38:52.000 This isn't even possible.

02:38:53.000 This can't be real.

02:38:54.000 Oh, my God, this is crazier than that.

02:38:56.000 And it just keeps going, and it never stops.

02:38:59.000 You can't catch up.

02:39:00.000 You can never catalog at all.

02:39:03.000 You can never say, well, we've got a very clear catalog of the possible effects of being on dimethyltryptamine.

02:39:10.000 Oh, Aubrey, you went to page 54. No, there's no page 54, bitch. 1.00

02:39:14.000 It doesn't end. 0.99

02:39:16.000 It's an infinite book.

02:39:17.000 You don't have it in your head.

02:39:18.000 You don't have the database.

02:39:20.000 It's like...

02:39:21.000 You know, an ant trying to figure out how a satellite works.

02:39:24.000 It doesn't matter.

02:39:26.000 It's so out of your world.

02:39:29.000 If it falls out of the sky and hits you in the head, it's the only time you should ever worry about it.

02:39:32.000 Until then, carry on.

02:39:34.000 Totally.

02:39:34.000 And so the cool part, you know, with the smoking of the DMT, it's kind of this in and out.

02:39:40.000 This was stretched out over, you know, 40 minutes, and it was a long way kind of back from that.

02:39:44.000 You could maybe call that the peak.

02:39:46.000 A lot of other things happened.

02:39:47.000 And I actually...

02:39:48.000 One of the things that I have going on in these psychedelic experiences is I have kind of like a recorder, almost.

02:39:55.000 It's like a shred of consciousness that I... Consciousness is another weird word to use, but a shred of mental capacity that I keep open to record this and store this information.

02:40:05.000 One of the reasons why I can tell these stories.

02:40:07.000 I remember as I was coming back from that place, I could feel that thing.

02:40:12.000 It was almost like knowing that these microphones are on or something.

02:40:15.000 You just have an awareness that it's on.

02:40:17.000 And I remember consciously being like, I've got to shut this off now.

02:40:20.000 And so for the first time in any of these psychedelic experiences, there's a good period that I don't even recall and I couldn't even talk about here.

02:40:28.000 But what I can recall is as I was coming back even closer, I could see a lot of these attachments onto my body as I was kind of from a bird's eye view.

02:40:37.000 Different things, different relationships, different other things that had, you know, attachments to this form or attachments to this idea or attachments to that.

02:40:46.000 And I just was able to just clear them all away.

02:40:49.000 You know, just kind of move through with my breath and my hand and And just kind of cut all these little hooks that were in my body.

02:40:55.000 And then just found myself coming back in and just marveling at the magic of this machine that we have.

02:41:02.000 You know, like hands that can squeeze.

02:41:03.000 Especially mine.

02:41:04.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:41:06.000 Exactly.

02:41:07.000 You got hands and a tongue that you can move around.

02:41:11.000 I remember moving around my tongue.

02:41:12.000 Toes that wiggle.

02:41:14.000 And in that process, I remember I started singing like an Icaro, like a little song.

02:41:19.000 Wow.

02:41:21.000 Total nonsense, gibberish, but it just started to come out and I was singing that as I was getting back into my body and I remember I was still singing and maybe I was singing a little loud and I saw this vision of this woman in this kind of crystal-y gown comes up and she smiles at me and then puts her finger to my lips like,

02:41:40.000 hey, shush. 0.86

02:41:41.000 That's a great way when you're tripping.

02:41:43.000 Yeah.

02:41:44.000 Did you want to talk to her more?

02:41:46.000 No, she was just there to tell me to shush. 0.97

02:41:48.000 I was like, okay, I'll shush now.

02:41:49.000 It's always a chick. 1.00

02:41:50.000 Yeah.

02:41:52.000 Again, it's the yin and yang.

02:41:53.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:41:54.000 You know, the Alfalfa had a fucking shitty group of friends. 1.00

02:41:56.000 That He-Man Woman Haters Club in Little Rascals, it's terrible. 1.00

02:41:59.000 Bullshit. 1.00

02:42:00.000 You don't want to be there. 1.00

02:42:00.000 You don't want to be in the He-Man Woman Haters Club. 1.00

02:42:03.000 We could all get along.

02:42:04.000 The women are going to stop shushing us. 1.00

02:42:06.000 This is how the hut got built, bitch. 1.00

02:42:08.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:42:08.000 I'm excitable. 1.00

02:42:11.000 So yes, I get back in my body and then I walk back into the hut.

02:42:14.000 I was one of the first to do the snuffs.

02:42:16.000 I was one of the first back.

02:42:17.000 And I sat and he asked me to sit in his chair and look at the altar.

02:42:22.000 And I remember just looking at the altar and just kind of merging with one with the center of the altar and realizing that the core of my center, that kind of that principle of non-duality that you talked about, touching every part of the universe.

02:42:32.000 The core of my being really started to merge with the core of that, the Lanzone in the middle.

02:42:38.000 And I just felt unbelievably connected with the entire universe at that point, realizing that within me is that same connection as within that.

02:42:46.000 Wow.

02:42:47.000 And then that was pretty much the wrap of the ceremony.

02:42:50.000 We all got kind of back in and candles burned out and had a feast, ate some cayman, some alligator at the end of that night.

02:42:59.000 I think cayman is a crocodile, right?

02:43:02.000 Is there a difference between the way alligator tastes and crocodile?

02:43:05.000 No, cayman tastes delicious.

02:43:07.000 It's kind of like a tougher chicken.

02:43:08.000 But anyway, so we finished that off and go have a feast.

02:43:12.000 There we go.

02:43:13.000 And really the last kind of words from Don Howard is he's, you know, he told me as I was leaving, he says, you know, it's renaissance time.

02:43:20.000 And that's what he believes.

02:43:22.000 It's time for a new renaissance, a spiritual and responsible consciousness renaissance. 0.99

02:43:26.000 And he's out there Johnny Appleseeding this motherfucker. 0.99

02:43:29.000 Yep. 0.99

02:43:29.000 He's been holding it down for 50 years, waiting for word to get critical mass. 0.99

02:43:34.000 I think it's out there?

02:43:35.000 Do you think it's critical mass now?

02:43:36.000 No, it's getting there though.

02:43:37.000 What do you experience?

02:43:39.000 What's the difference in your life since you feel like you've been exposed to these ideas?

02:43:45.000 So now at this point, I have the roadmap back anytime I get in a weird situation.

02:43:51.000 I'm not immune to fears and I'm not immune to worries and concerns.

02:43:55.000 But now I can see them and I can choose and I can almost say, okay, I recognize you.

02:44:01.000 I see you coming.

02:44:01.000 But I also remember a truth so much deeper that I felt.

02:44:05.000 And while you may pester me for a moment, I'm going to find my way back to that eventually because I felt it.

02:44:11.000 I saw it.

02:44:11.000 I chose to be that way.

02:44:13.000 And for me, because of how active this whole ceremony was, knowing my way back to that feeling of fearlessness, knowing my way back to that connection with the center of the universe and the lessons about reciprocity and all of these things, I just have the fucking roadmap to find my way out of any kind of maze or worry or concern or situation.

02:44:34.000 They're still going to come up. 0.99

02:44:35.000 They're still going to kick my ass occasionally. 0.99

02:44:37.000 Resistance is still going to get a foothold every now and then and win for an hour, win for a day, win for a week. 0.99

02:44:43.000 I don't know. 0.99

02:44:44.000 But I'll kick its ass eventually because I've found the way and I've seen what is capable for me and what I want to be. 1.00

02:44:51.000 As you get older, do you find less and less battles with that shit and more and more and more smooth sailing? 1.00

02:44:57.000 Absolutely. 1.00

02:44:58.000 Yeah.

02:44:59.000 Yeah, I do.

02:45:01.000 Like everyone, I experience similar moments of malcontent or similar moments of a lack of ambition.

02:45:11.000 I find a way to fight them back.

02:45:13.000 And I think that one of the big things...

02:45:16.000 That I keep harping on and that we harp on a lot on it is, take care of your meat wagon.

02:45:23.000 It has a big effect on how your brain works.

02:45:27.000 It has a big effect.

02:45:29.000 The other day, I did a kettlebell workout.

02:45:33.000 I did chin-ups with a weight vest on and ankle weights.

02:45:38.000 And then I did 10 rounds of the heavy bag while the fights were going on.

02:45:42.000 So I did renegade rows with the kettlebells.

02:45:45.000 I did alternating cleans.

02:45:48.000 I did clean presses.

02:45:49.000 And then I did these weighted chin-ups.

02:45:52.000 And then I just had a ruthless, savage bag workout. 0.99

02:45:55.000 And after all that shit was done, you couldn't bother me. 0.99

02:45:58.000 It's not possible. 0.99

02:45:59.000 Anything you would say, I would find curious. 1.00

02:46:01.000 Like, you could be like, you fucking douchebag! 1.00

02:46:03.000 And you could say something totally mean to me, and I'd be like, well, you've got an issue. 1.00

02:46:09.000 I don't know what it is, but I'm not really interested.

02:46:11.000 I gotta go see ya. 0.99

02:46:12.000 Like, you have a bank of bullshit in your body, and if you could blow that out in the gym, Man, and that's a lesson. 0.99

02:46:19.000 If you want to talk about something that I need to learn over and over and over and over again, although I know it, although I've espoused it, I still need to see it in action. 1.00

02:46:28.000 Because sometimes your ego and your body get a little tricky.

02:46:32.000 And you take a few days off, take two, three days off, like...

02:46:35.000 I'm fine.

02:46:36.000 I don't need to work out.

02:46:37.000 I'm busy right now.

02:46:39.000 I'm handling everything very calmly.

02:46:41.000 You don't even realize you're on the verge.

02:46:44.000 You're on the verge of stepping into that new or that next sort of vibration, that little bit more hostile vibration.

02:46:51.000 You could pull that back.

02:46:52.000 You could easily pull that back.

02:46:54.000 But if you don't do that, if you never do that, if you never take care of your meat wagon, boy, you don't know, man.

02:46:59.000 You don't know. 0.99

02:47:00.000 I was high as fuck after that workout. 0.99

02:47:03.000 After that workout, I was high. 0.99

02:47:05.000 I was floating.

02:47:07.000 I was filled with endorphins.

02:47:10.000 Everything was beautiful.

02:47:11.000 I went outside.

02:47:11.000 I sat down in the backyard and watched my chickens run around.

02:47:14.000 The world was filled with love.

02:47:16.000 I might as well have been smoking weed.

02:47:18.000 I'm serious. 0.99

02:47:19.000 I was high as fuck. 0.99

02:47:20.000 Just stretching. 1.00

02:47:22.000 It's got to be similar to psychedelic effects of yoga.

02:47:26.000 Absolutely.

02:47:27.000 Completely stressed, relieved, and then stretching out and just taking in nature.

02:47:32.000 It was gorgeous.

02:47:33.000 It was beautiful.

02:47:34.000 It's just like a drug, man.

02:47:36.000 And people who don't exercise that option, just do it.

02:47:41.000 It's not about...

02:47:42.000 A lot of people worry that it's about...

02:47:45.000 The way you look.

02:47:46.000 And it's about vanity.

02:47:47.000 And they don't want to be misconstrued as being vain or they don't want to compete.

02:47:52.000 They don't want to acknowledge the fact that being physically attractive or sexually attractive is beneficial because then it'll hold weight over them and then they'll judge themselves on not chasing after that. 0.99

02:48:04.000 So they sort of take pride in being a fat fuck or joke around about, you know, being lazy. 0.99

02:48:13.000 Some of those people are my favorite human beings on the planet, but the reality of it is, if you took better care of your meat wagon, you'd have a funner ride. 1.00

02:48:22.000 Fuck yeah. 0.99

02:48:22.000 Your shocks would be better. 0.99

02:48:23.000 Your system would run smoother.

02:48:25.000 You'd get better miles to the gallon. 0.96

02:48:27.000 It doesn't fucking break down the highways much. 0.79

02:48:29.000 It's a completely different experience. 0.96

02:48:31.000 Just force yourself.

02:48:32.000 At the bare minimum, do enough to keep your body out of pain.

02:48:35.000 Do some yoga.

02:48:37.000 It's not hard.

02:48:38.000 I mean, it is hard, but it's not hard to find a place to do it.

02:48:41.000 It's not hard to find a video online. 0.99

02:48:43.000 Fucking just do that. 0.99

02:48:44.000 Try it. 1.00

02:48:45.000 Please!

02:48:46.000 Get out of pain, then get out of fear, and then you have a chance to connect to that, you know, that other, whatever that other is.

02:48:52.000 But the first steps, you got to take care of the base root, you know?

02:48:55.000 You got to get your body right.

02:48:56.000 Anthony Bourdain started doing jiu-jitsu at 57 years old.

02:48:59.000 Nice! 0.94

02:49:00.000 Good for him!

02:49:00.000 His wife and kid got him into jiu-jitsu because his kid's five and his kid's really getting into jiu-jitsu.

02:49:05.000 So he's like, holy shit! 0.98

02:49:07.000 I guess his kid's older than five now. 0.99

02:49:08.000 But close, somewhere in that range.

02:49:10.000 His kid's really getting into jiu-jitsu.

02:49:12.000 And his wife is quite a badass. 1.00

02:49:15.000 She's really obsessed with it.

02:49:16.000 She trains daily. 1.00

02:49:18.000 So now he's fucking training. 1.00

02:49:19.000 There's all these pictures of him training. 1.00

02:49:21.000 He's got a stripe on his wipeout. 0.98

02:49:22.000 He's doing arm bars and shit. 0.97

02:49:24.000 His cardio's improved.

02:49:25.000 And Octavia Bourdain, I don't know what the source of it is, like where you can find it online, but if you Google it, she wrote an article about Anthony Bourdain getting into shape and doing jiu-jitsu.

02:49:36.000 It's awesome.

02:49:36.000 It's a fascinating article.

02:49:38.000 First of all, she's a really fucking good writer. 0.96

02:49:40.000 I mean, I always knew she was smart. 0.98

02:49:41.000 She's very interesting.

02:49:42.000 But I didn't know how good her writing is.

02:49:44.000 It's very interesting.

02:49:45.000 It's like, I really like it.

02:49:46.000 It's a great style.

02:49:47.000 It's an enviable style of writing.

02:49:49.000 Like, whoa, she's got some skills. 0.99

02:49:51.000 So she's documenting him as like a test study.

02:49:55.000 It's obvious who he is.

02:49:57.000 She's a 57-year-old man, was a frequent smoker until he was 38. She names off all the different drugs and how little exercise he gets and all these different things.

02:50:09.000 It's really fun.

02:50:10.000 If you get a chance, check it out.

02:50:12.000 Good on Anthony Bourdain, man.

02:50:13.000 Good for him.

02:50:14.000 I love someone who's willing to take a chance at 57 years old and learn something new.

02:50:19.000 Exercising his right to free will.

02:50:20.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.98

02:50:21.000 Apparently she doesn't drill with him because she says he gets fucking too intense. 1.00

02:50:25.000 He just fucking gets crazy. 0.99

02:50:27.000 That guy's got a little bit of PTSD. He's seen some fucking shit on his show. 1.00

02:50:31.000 Took the shit out of you. 1.00

02:50:33.000 He gets a little amped up, man. 1.00

02:50:36.000 Well, we ran out of time. 0.98

02:50:38.000 It's another fucking awesome podcast, though. 0.98

02:50:40.000 A lot of fun. 0.98

02:50:41.000 Beautiful.

02:50:41.000 Remember that last time you were worried that we were going to run out of things to talk about?

02:50:44.000 Yeah, that was silly.

02:50:44.000 Isn't that hilarious?

02:50:45.000 That was silly. 0.73

02:50:45.000 That's funny. 0.73

02:50:46.000 Did that come up at all in the psychedelic experience?

02:50:50.000 It didn't, because I kind of figured...

02:50:51.000 Did you worry about that?

02:50:52.000 But it would have if I'd have had that thought. 0.94

02:50:54.000 I'd have been like, that was a silly thought.

02:50:56.000 But all those little ants, those are just ants.

02:50:58.000 Those are ants that you can choose to give you power. 1.00

02:51:00.000 You can choose to be like, that's a fucking ant. 1.00

02:51:02.000 But like ants, you need them or the world's going to fucking fall apart. 1.00

02:51:05.000 That's what's really crazy about the whole thing. 0.82

02:51:07.000 You really can't eradicate any of it.

02:51:10.000 It's impossible.

02:51:11.000 We're all going to be humans. 1.00

02:51:13.000 Just enjoy this shit right here. 1.00

02:51:17.000 Not my dick. 1.00

02:51:18.000 I mean, this life is what I'm saying. 0.99

02:51:20.000 Enjoy what's around you right now, what you're experiencing right now.

02:51:24.000 And I think that whether science can determine that free will is an illusion because of your circumstances, your genetics, your life experiences, that's all well and good.

02:51:33.000 But it's not empowering to whoever's listening to this and it is actually affecting you.

02:51:40.000 You, whoever that is that hears that me saying you, you can alter this thing.

02:51:46.000 You have it.

02:51:47.000 Yeah, I don't know why you can alter it, but I've done it.

02:51:51.000 You can do it.

02:51:52.000 There's nothing special about me.

02:51:53.000 I'm just a normal human being.

02:51:55.000 I can do it, you can do it, we can all do it.

02:51:57.000 And that's what your shaman friend...

02:52:00.000 It's Johnny Appleseed into the world.

02:52:02.000 Indeed. 0.98

02:52:02.000 Out of a fucking crazy place in the jungle in the middle of nowhere that you have to fly into. 0.98

02:52:10.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:52:11.000 Indeed.

02:52:11.000 If you want any more information on that, I wrote this all up in a 26-page book.

02:52:15.000 Oh, shit. 0.94

02:52:16.000 E-book with articles and stuff. 0.99

02:52:17.000 It's all on my warriorpoet.us book. 0.99

02:52:19.000 Damn, you wrote a 26-page book about this? 0.98

02:52:21.000 Yeah, it's like a... 1.00

02:52:21.000 Holy shit. 1.00

02:52:23.000 Yeah, it's a... 1.00

02:52:24.000 Wow.

02:52:25.000 The days that I wasn't doing ceremony, I was writing about it.

02:52:27.000 Who was filming this for?

02:52:29.000 Did you hire someone to go down there?

02:52:30.000 Yes, we got a badass crew.

02:52:31.000 We got Mitch Schultz from DMT, The Spirit Molecule.

02:52:33.000 Oh, I love Mitch.

02:52:35.000 I gotta have Mitch on the podcast.

02:52:37.000 We had Donald Schultz, who's this crazy wildlife guy.

02:52:39.000 I think I talked to you about him. 0.99

02:52:40.000 He's saving the rhinos and done a bunch of shit like that. 0.97

02:52:43.000 And then we had one of Mitch's main film guys there. 0.94

02:52:46.000 I would love to talk to one of those saving the rhinos guys and see how they feel about those weird camps that they have in Africa. 0.92

02:52:53.000 Donald knows all about it.

02:52:55.000 He's been there a couple times. 1.00

02:52:56.000 He's got some crazy fucking stories shot at by sniper rifles from the hunters and crazy shit going on. 0.99

02:53:01.000 Yeah, I would love to talk to him and get his perspective. 1.00

02:53:04.000 I had Louis Theroux on the podcast and he spent a good deal of time down in one of those camps.

02:53:09.000 It's one of the most fascinating documentaries that he put out.

02:53:13.000 It was all about this contradictory world of these African hunting camps. 0.70

02:53:18.000 Really fascinating.

02:53:19.000 If you get a chance to watch it, first of all, Louis Theroux, if you don't know who he is, just Google him. 0.98

02:53:24.000 I don't want to tell you how to spell it because I'll fuck it up, but figure it out, bitch. 1.00

02:53:29.000 Suggested spelling. 0.99

02:53:30.000 Louis spelled Louis, and he did some fantastic documentaries on the Westboro Baptist Church, the God Hates Fags guy who holds up those signs at funerals and shit. 0.98

02:53:42.000 That was incredibly fascinating. 0.94

02:53:44.000 But this was one of his more fascinating ones.

02:53:46.000 The contradictory...

02:53:48.000 Nature of these hunting camps is that because of these hunting camps, these animals are more healthy, their populations are healthier than they've ever been.

02:53:56.000 But people are hunting them.

02:53:58.000 And they're hunting them inside cages.

02:54:00.000 And everybody else is.

02:54:00.000 And people are freaking out.

02:54:02.000 And it's a real complex freakout.

02:54:05.000 Because I can see both sides.

02:54:06.000 I can see the size of the people that are running the hunting camp because they are in fact making these animals safer.

02:54:14.000 Giving them a value.

02:54:15.000 And then also the money spent is making sure that their populations will stay steady and strong.

02:54:23.000 But they're gonna be hunted.

02:54:24.000 You see, that's crazy.

02:54:25.000 You're fencing them in, and then dudes are coming in from out of state with one reason. 1.00

02:54:30.000 To shoot these fucking animals. 1.00

02:54:32.000 But that's where you get the money to keep the animals alive. 1.00

02:54:34.000 Like, woo! 0.99

02:54:36.000 That is the universe in a fucking nutshell. 0.99

02:54:40.000 Donald grew up in South Africa, so if he comes on or whatever, you have a conversation with him. 0.98

02:54:44.000 He's got a lot of opinions on that.

02:54:46.000 I won't steal his thunder.

02:54:47.000 I need to hear them.

02:54:48.000 I would love to hear them. 0.94

02:54:50.000 The Louis Thoreau documentary was goddamn incredible.

02:54:54.000 I would love to hear someone who's trying to save those animals, what it's like. 0.93

02:54:58.000 If you really pay attention to a really good documentary on Africa, like there's a great BBC series called The Congo, the diversity of life there is so stunning that it's almost like you're watching something that's a window in a forgotten time when these animals existed.

02:55:15.000 Because they don't seem like they should exist.

02:55:17.000 They seem so...

02:55:20.000 Fantastic and almost mythical.

02:55:22.000 Like these shoebill birds, these gigantic birds with this enormous long beak thing that looks like a giant canoe coming out of its face and it's like five feet tall and it's prehistoric.

02:55:36.000 Fish that climb out of the water and walk until they get to the next pond and dive in.

02:55:41.000 There's antelopes that have evolved to swim underwater and eat fish.

02:55:45.000 They have an antelope that eats fish, man.

02:55:47.000 It can swim underwater 100 yards.

02:55:49.000 It's in the antelope family.

02:55:51.000 There's rhinos and elephants that are trapped inside this rainforest because the grasslands turned into a rainforest and all these plains animals just got stuck there.

02:56:01.000 So you see these herds of gazelles running through swamps.

02:56:04.000 It's madness! 0.99

02:56:06.000 I mean, Africa is fucking incredible. 0.99

02:56:09.000 And that somehow or another, those animals are in jeopardy. 0.98

02:56:12.000 That the gorillas... 1.00

02:56:14.000 That come down off the mountains, you see them walk through these little dirt roads, walk across these dirt roads, and a family and the male gorillas looking out. 0.94

02:56:20.000 They're wild!

02:56:22.000 These are wild gorillas!

02:56:23.000 Today in 2014! 1.00

02:56:26.000 We have to do something to save those fucking things. 1.00

02:56:29.000 I mean, I don't necessarily think it's keep them in fences and shoot arrows at them either. 0.99

02:56:34.000 I mean, I think this is a crazy thing.

02:56:37.000 Like, you have the most incredible diversity of life, of exotic life in the world, all coming from the place where life, human life, apparently was originated. 0.57

02:56:47.000 And when people are conscious, they'll want to enjoy those things, because it's part of the fucking magic of this crazy blue rock that we're on, you know?

02:56:55.000 It is. 0.92

02:56:55.000 And as soon as SeaWorld gets shut down, the next thing is zoos. 0.92

02:56:59.000 Take your kids to the zoo now.

02:57:01.000 Get in there while you can.

02:57:02.000 Get in there while you can.

02:57:03.000 There won't be zoos in the future, folks.

02:57:04.000 We're going to realize how gross that is.

02:57:07.000 All right.

02:57:07.000 Ladies and gentlemen, this has been fun.

02:57:09.000 It's always fun.

02:57:10.000 We appreciate very much all the love that we get at Twitter, comedy shows, just the vibe that we're all riding on.

02:57:18.000 Absolutely.

02:57:19.000 Like we said, there's hiccups along the way, there's blots of negativity, but there's lessons to be learned in all those things, for me, for you, for all of us.

02:57:28.000 And I think one of the most important things about having these kind of conversations is you get to highlight these things, and we all get to think of these things together, and we all get to acknowledge that these are, you know, we're all experiencing life in this weird, strange, figure-it-out-as-you-go-along style,

02:57:44.000 you know? 0.98

02:57:44.000 Don't be too harsh on people, bitches. 0.98

02:57:47.000 Get it together. 1.00

02:57:48.000 Try to be nice.

02:57:49.000 Be good to your brothers and sisters and the earth.

02:57:51.000 To your brothers and sisters and the earth.

02:57:53.000 And on that note, thank you to LegalZoom.

02:57:55.000 Go to LegalZoom.com.

02:57:56.000 Use the code word Rogan in the referral box and save yourself some money.

02:58:00.000 And thanks also to Onnit.com.

02:58:02.000 Go to O-N-N-I-T. Use the code word Rogan and save 10% off any and all supplements.

02:58:08.000 We got a podcast-filled week, ladies and gentlemen, including Late Night, episode 500. It will take place Tuesday night at 9 p.m.

02:58:18.000 with the great Doug Stanhope and the great Tom Rhodes.

02:58:21.000 Oh, good googly moogly.

02:58:23.000 Maybe, possibly, the greatest drunk podcast of all will be this Tuesday night.

02:58:27.000 And you have to look forward to that.

02:58:29.000 All right.

02:58:29.000 We love you.

02:58:30.000 Much love, everybody.

02:58:31.000 Take care.

02:58:31.000 Big kiss.

02:58:31.000 Peace!

The Joe Rogan Experience - May 11, 2014

Joe Rogan Experience #498 - Aubrey Marcus

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript