The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #499 - Cenk Uygur

00:00:02.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:04.000 This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience is... 0.97

00:00:06.000 I fucking said it again, man. 0.99

00:00:08.000 I said my own name again. 0.99

00:00:09.000 This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Squarespace.

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00:02:32.000 Enjoy it.

00:02:33.000 And we're also brought to you by Audible.com.

00:02:35.000 Audible.com is the number one source...

00:02:41.000 Welcome to my show!

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00:04:01.000 If you're a procrastinator, if you're one of those people that just for whatever reason you feel like you can't get shit done, that you need to get shit done, he really details and outlines it in a very clear way.

00:04:14.000 And he refers to it all as resistance.

00:04:17.000 It's one of the most powerful books that I've ever read.

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00:04:23.000 Just in case.

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00:05:05.000 Yeah, they're great.

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00:05:09.000 No, seriously, we already use Squarespace for one of our websites, for whatistyt.com.

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00:07:31.000 10% off any and all supplements.

00:07:33.000 That's O-N-N-I-T. And use the code word ROGAN. Cenk Uygur.

00:07:38.000 I said it right.

00:07:39.000 Cenk Uygur. 0.97

00:07:40.000 I'm not going to fuck it up like Larry King did. 0.98

00:07:43.000 Cenk Uygur. 0.76

00:07:44.000 And he's here from the Young Turks. 0.91

00:07:46.000 Cue the music, Young Jamie.

00:07:48.000 Joe Rogan Podcast.

00:07:50.000 Check it out.

00:07:50.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:07:53.000 Train by day.

00:07:54.000 Joe Rogan Podcast by night.

00:07:55.000 All day.

00:07:59.000 I've been a fan of your work for a long time, man, so it's great to have you on.

00:08:02.000 I really enjoy your show, I enjoy what you're doing, and I enjoy that there's this outlet now where you don't have to go through a million different steps and get approved by producers.

00:08:12.000 You just create your own show, it's relevant, it's interesting, it's engaging, people tune in, and then all of a sudden, boom, look at that, you're the number one news show on the internet.

00:08:24.000 I mean, that's pretty crazy.

00:08:25.000 Yeah, it's totally crazy.

00:08:27.000 Thanks for saying all that.

00:08:28.000 It's been a crazy, crazy ride.

00:08:32.000 And I love doing a podcast here because it reminds me of how we started.

00:08:36.000 And we literally started My Living Room, and we're about to hit like 2 billion views.

00:08:41.000 2 billion?

00:08:42.000 Yeah, it's madness.

00:08:43.000 What year did you start?

00:08:45.000 2002, we started sending in taped shows to Sirius Satellite Radio.

00:08:51.000 Wow.

00:08:51.000 We were actually Sirius' first original talk show.

00:08:55.000 That's incredible.

00:08:56.000 So what was the thought process behind it?

00:08:58.000 Like you just said, you know what?

00:09:01.000 Nothing out there is representing my point of view.

00:09:03.000 Let me just create something.

00:09:05.000 Yeah.

00:09:05.000 Okay.

00:09:05.000 So first, let me just quickly say thanks for having me on.

00:09:09.000 Thanks for being on.

00:09:10.000 And I've never gone on anything, TV, anything where people were more excited that I was going to come on someplace.

00:09:16.000 Really?

00:09:16.000 Yeah.

00:09:17.000 They're like, oh, you're going on Joe Rogan's podcast.

00:09:18.000 That's awesome!

00:09:20.000 Well, we've spoken highly of you and your show many times on it, so I think there's a lot of people that are connected here.

00:09:25.000 Yeah, I appreciate that.

00:09:27.000 So, initially for like three and a half minutes I was a lawyer, and I hated that.

00:09:33.000 Couldn't stand it.

00:09:34.000 So, a friend of mine suggested I take like a course on how to start your own TV show.

00:09:40.000 I was like, that's mental.

00:09:42.000 That's not...

00:09:43.000 You can't do that, right? 0.97

00:09:44.000 And so I went to a learning annex course in New York, and this lady just took our money and said, hey, schmucks, go to your local public access. 1.00

00:09:52.000 You can start any show you like, right? 0.95

00:09:53.000 That's it.

00:09:53.000 That was the whole thing.

00:09:55.000 And so I was like, okay, I still don't believe it.

00:09:57.000 I went to, first day at the law firm, I left early to go to orientation at a public access station, okay?

00:10:04.000 And I went there, and, you know, you've got to go through this whole process, get trained up, yada, yada.

00:10:09.000 First time I go on air, We did an hour-long show with me and my friends.

00:10:14.000 Half of it was on politics.

00:10:16.000 Half of it was on philosophy.

00:10:19.000 We had philosophical debates on God and all that stuff.

00:10:23.000 And everybody else was bored to tears.

00:10:25.000 I walked off the stage thinking, that's what I'm doing.

00:10:28.000 God, I love that!

00:10:29.000 I love that!

00:10:30.000 That's what I'm doing the rest of my life.

00:10:32.000 Wow.

00:10:34.000 I got started there, then barged my way into local radio, WRKO in Boston, WWRC in Washington, just weekends, fill in, whatever they'd give me.

00:10:44.000 I drive nine hours to Boston to do a weekend show, and then I went to Miami and got on TV, same thing, barged my way in, started in sales, worked my way up, somehow got on air, somehow became the supervising producer of their flagship show,

00:11:02.000 and on air commentator.

00:11:04.000 That got sold.

00:11:05.000 That was Barry Diller's group.

00:11:06.000 And then I came out to LA and I started writing because my main job at the TV station had become head writer for the show.

00:11:16.000 And so then I wrote on three different pilots here in LA. And I remember when the straw that broke the camel's back on that was I was writing for Daisy Fuentes.

00:11:27.000 And they're like, okay, now you need to use Daisy's voice. 0.98

00:11:31.000 And I was like, I don't know what Daisy's fucking voice is. 0.99

00:11:34.000 I don't know that at all. 0.99

00:11:35.000 I've never met her and I don't want to be Daisy's voice.

00:11:39.000 I want to be my voice.

00:11:40.000 Right.

00:11:40.000 So I was like, I got to get back into radio because that's the only place they let you do a talk show.

00:11:45.000 That's back in 02, right?

00:11:47.000 01 actually at that time.

00:11:49.000 And so I called up my old friends, one of them who was a program director at WRKO in Boston, who'd then gone to XM. He's like, Cenk, dude, you gotta go to Sirius right now.

00:11:59.000 They just opened the door.

00:12:00.000 Go, I'll put in a recommendation for you.

00:12:03.000 And basically, like, bars my way in there.

00:12:05.000 Started The Young Turks, what we know now as The Young Turks.

00:12:08.000 I started with Ben, who was the anchor at the station in Miami that I was working with.

00:12:13.000 And they literally didn't even know we were on the air for the first six months. 0.98

00:12:17.000 And then when they found out, they're like, oh shit, now we gotta pay you. 0.99

00:12:20.000 Ugh. 1.00

00:12:20.000 Ha ha ha ha! 1.00

00:12:22.000 They didn't know you were on the air?

00:12:24.000 No.

00:12:25.000 Because some consultant had hired us.

00:12:27.000 And then when they eventually hired a program director for talks, because we were their first talk show, they didn't even have a program director for that.

00:12:33.000 Then they hired one, and they're like, oh, right, right, these guys are on the air.

00:12:37.000 Okay, what should we do with them?

00:12:38.000 And he had me go into New York, and he sat me down and listened to some tapes.

00:12:41.000 He's like, you guys are surprisingly decent. 1.00

00:12:45.000 All right, fuck it, we'll pay you. 1.00

00:12:47.000 And that's how we got started. 1.00

00:12:48.000 Are you guys still on XM? Well, now it's Sirius and XM, right?

00:12:51.000 They've combined?

00:12:52.000 No, we were on there for a million years, but honestly, the online video got so much bigger than radio that it became not worth it.

00:13:02.000 Even for the minor hassle of doing formatting, doing three hours, we're like, it's not worth it, so we just let it go.

00:13:10.000 Do you guys have a podcast version of it or an audible download version of it?

00:13:15.000 Yeah, so on iTunes, we got a free audio podcast and a free video podcast that's like two out of the six segments we do every day so people can sample it.

00:13:23.000 It's not bad, actually.

00:13:24.000 It's already like probably more than a half an hour of content for free.

00:13:29.000 And then if you're hardcore and you like the show, then you just go to our website, tytnetwork.com, and it's a $10 membership.

00:13:37.000 And so then you get all of it.

00:13:38.000 You get the main show, you get all the network shows, you get everything.

00:13:42.000 Yeah.

00:13:42.000 So if anybody wanted to, they can get plenty of free content, but you do so much stuff that if you want to be...

00:13:48.000 So what percentage of the people that get to it and start downloading it, do you know what percentage actually sign up?

00:13:57.000 Sure.

00:13:57.000 You have a huge amount of subscribers.

00:13:59.000 Right.

00:14:00.000 So on YouTube, we have a little over 1.5 million subscribers for The Young Turks, the flagship show for...

00:14:07.000 For the whole network, we have, I think, about 3 million subscribers.

00:14:11.000 You know, when you have all of our shows like Pop Trigger, What the Flick, which is movie reviews, TYT Sports, stuff like that.

00:14:18.000 And we have 64 million views a month on the network, 24 million uniques every month. 0.97

00:14:25.000 But when you're talking about people paying $10 a month, we almost never advertise it, which is so stupid of us.

00:14:32.000 It's partly because we had troubles with the website and stuff.

00:14:35.000 The people who pay the ten bucks, that's around four to five thousand.

00:14:40.000 Still, though, wow.

00:14:41.000 It's amazing.

00:14:42.000 So you've essentially set up your own studio.

00:14:44.000 You have your own network.

00:14:46.000 I mean, it's not just a show now.

00:14:49.000 You have, like, this entire thing that you've developed.

00:14:53.000 You're only on some of those shows, too, right?

00:14:55.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:14:56.000 There's a gang of other people working for you now.

00:14:58.000 Yeah, so there's 29 channels.

00:15:00.000 So if I was on all those shows, my head would explode.

00:15:03.000 My head's about to explode as it is, running the network and being on the show, and then I... For three years, I did TV at the same time, which was just so crazy.

00:15:12.000 Like, it was just...

00:15:13.000 I was going to melt down.

00:15:14.000 My body was breaking down.

00:15:16.000 But, yeah...

00:15:19.000 All those channels, great hosts.

00:15:22.000 We got 30 people that are full-time, but then if you add all the hosts that are not full-time to it, then you're talking probably 50, 60 people.

00:15:29.000 That's insane.

00:15:30.000 Yeah.

00:15:30.000 Wow.

00:15:31.000 We literally started in our living room.

00:15:34.000 When Jesus, who's still with us 12 years later, walked in as an intern, he was like, okay, there's a 12% chance I'm getting murdered today.

00:15:41.000 This is this guy's living room, and it's kind of scary looking.

00:15:45.000 Okay.

00:15:46.000 And I can't believe he stuck with us, but he did.

00:15:48.000 Now we've got this big studio space in Culver City, and we're producing shows like There's No No More.

00:15:53.000 Wow.

00:15:54.000 And you guys recently, did you use Kickstarter or something to fund your studio?

00:15:59.000 How did you set that up?

00:16:00.000 What did you do?

00:16:01.000 We did Indiegogo.

00:16:02.000 So it's basically the same thing as Kickstarter, and we like it a little better.

00:16:07.000 And we thought, alright, we need money to build a new studio because we had been with Current Television and they had paid our rent.

00:16:17.000 I had this great deal with them where they paid me to be a host, they paid some of our producers, and they paid for the rent.

00:16:22.000 Great deal.

00:16:24.000 So when we left, they got bought by Al Jazeera and we didn't want to be with Al Jazeera.

00:16:28.000 So then we got to go build our own studio, which is incredibly expensive.

00:16:32.000 So we're like, okay, let's try this because we built everything with our audience.

00:16:36.000 Let's try to build this with them.

00:16:38.000 And I remember we sat around in a room.

00:16:40.000 There was like six, seven of us.

00:16:43.000 We're like, what should we go for?

00:16:45.000 And every single person agreed, $150,000.

00:16:48.000 Like, let's go for it.

00:16:49.000 Let's go nuts.

00:16:49.000 Let's try to get $150,000.

00:16:51.000 So then it came back around to me and I was like, okay, that sounds good.

00:16:54.000 We're going to go for $250,000.

00:16:57.000 Because I'd rather try for $250,000 and get to $175,000.

00:17:01.000 And then people are like, oh, you didn't make it.

00:17:02.000 I'm like, yeah, but I got an extra $25,000 I didn't expect, so that's awesome.

00:17:06.000 I don't care what people say, as long as we can actually use the money to build a studio.

00:17:10.000 Anyway, it turns out we got basically a little over $400,000.

00:17:15.000 Whoa! 0.71

00:17:16.000 That's incredible.

00:17:17.000 But that's just a sign that what you're doing resonates.

00:17:20.000 So that's got to be very fulfilling.

00:17:22.000 That's got to feel nice.

00:17:24.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:17:25.000 You know, so my dad is a guy who, like, will focus on the positive for about a second and a half.

00:17:33.000 And then he'll be like, okay, yeah, but let me tell you all the things that are going wrong and yada yada.

00:17:37.000 So I've unfortunately internalized that.

00:17:40.000 I mean, it's got a good aspect to it and a bad aspect.

00:17:42.000 But so, like, I never take a moment to be like, yes!

00:17:46.000 Right?

00:17:47.000 A little bit when we did the Billion Views Party, we did that at YouTube Space, and I was like, dude...

00:17:53.000 Billion is kind of a hard number to deny, right?

00:17:56.000 In some ways, I'm humble because I think I've failed so much in my life that it's impossible not to be humble, right?

00:18:05.000 But in other ways, I'm a massive egomaniac.

00:18:07.000 But even when we started, if you told this egomaniac we're going to get a billion views, I'd be like, dude, come on, bounds of recent.

00:18:13.000 That's not going to happen.

00:18:14.000 That's crazy talk.

00:18:15.000 So then I soaked it in a little bit.

00:18:17.000 Yeah, and when the audience delivered and it was over $400,000, that was another moment like, just like you said, it wasn't the money as much, and the money was great, but it was more like, man, they really...

00:18:29.000 They believe in us, man.

00:18:30.000 And that comes with a responsibility.

00:18:33.000 As Spider-Man's uncle told him, with great power comes great responsibility. 0.91

00:18:37.000 That was before he let the crook get by and killed his uncle.

00:18:41.000 Well, what you're doing is what people have wanted to see for a while.

00:18:45.000 Someone who has...

00:18:49.000 We're good to go. 0.99

00:19:10.000 What you're doing is, this is, my name is Cenk Uygur, this is my opinion, boom, I'm gonna put it out there and I don't give a fuck what you think. 0.93

00:19:19.000 And that is what everybody has always wanted because what you're getting when you listen to the nightly news, today on Wall Street, we learned you're getting a fake voice with a guy who's reading off a teleprompter with a gang of people that their objective is just about making money and about producing this program, 0.97

00:19:38.000 this business, It's called the news.

00:19:41.000 And so their objective is not getting information out to people.

00:19:46.000 Their objective is not debating the hard facts.

00:19:48.000 It's not rabble rousing. 0.98

00:19:50.000 It's not telling people, like, we better wake up and fucking realize what's going on here. 0.95

00:19:54.000 It's none of that. 0.96

00:19:54.000 There's none of that. 0.96

00:19:55.000 But you come along, and that is exactly what you're doing.

00:19:59.000 And then people start going, hey, hey, look at this.

00:20:01.000 Look at this.

00:20:02.000 There's another thing going on over here.

00:20:03.000 This guy's got this thing, and he's using the internet.

00:20:06.000 Ooh, the internet.

00:20:07.000 Nobody can tell him what to do?

00:20:09.000 No, nobody's telling him what to do.

00:20:10.000 This is his opinion.

00:20:11.000 And then it takes off.

00:20:13.000 And that's a very important thing that, in my opinion, sort of embodies or personifies this time in our culture.

00:20:21.000 It's a very unique time.

00:20:23.000 And that ability that we have now to just freely express ourselves, and you could become one of those people.

00:20:30.000 I found out this guy the other day online, some science podcast that he has on YouTube, or some science show on YouTube.

00:20:38.000 Somebody told me, hey, you should check this out.

00:20:39.000 I looked at it.

00:20:40.000 Each video is like 17 million views, 6 million views. 0.99

00:20:44.000 I'm like, holy shit! 1.00

00:20:45.000 How many of those fucking guys are out there now? 1.00

00:20:48.000 You just find out about them, and already they have millions and millions and millions of subscribers. 0.99

00:20:54.000 There's never been a time like that.

00:20:56.000 There's never been a time like we're experiencing today.

00:20:58.000 Yeah, you know, I think our success is bigger than us.

00:21:03.000 Like, it's not about us, right?

00:21:04.000 Just like you said, it's about a certain period of time in the history of media that, in essence, what they've done is the mainstream media has handed us, like, 80% of the market just by their abject failure.

00:21:17.000 Yeah.

00:21:18.000 So you turn on TV and it's wall-to-wall fakeness.

00:21:21.000 It's guys reading from a prompter.

00:21:23.000 It's guys who are supposed to be reporters that never ask follow-up questions because they don't actually know the material.

00:21:29.000 The producers write out the questions ahead of time.

00:21:31.000 I've been there.

00:21:32.000 They write out the questions ahead of time.

00:21:34.000 They read it.

00:21:35.000 They're not news anchors.

00:21:37.000 They're news actors.

00:21:38.000 That's a great way of describing them.

00:21:40.000 And so, and then they got that fake voice that you're talking about.

00:21:42.000 I mean, like, what is that?

00:21:44.000 Why do they talk like that?

00:21:45.000 Yeah.

00:21:46.000 Like, so I remember, this is a story I told on the show once.

00:21:49.000 I'm in New Orleans for Mardi Gras. 0.99

00:21:51.000 We're pretty fucked up. 0.99

00:21:52.000 And then we turn on the TV and it's a normal local news lady. 0.99

00:21:55.000 And she's like, and the number of ambulances doubled, but so has the number of injuries.

00:22:05.000 But why?

00:22:06.000 Why are you saying it like that?

00:22:07.000 It's really weird.

00:22:08.000 If anybody in real life talked like that, you'd be like, they're tripping.

00:22:12.000 There's something wrong with that.

00:22:13.000 There's two parallels.

00:22:14.000 There's the Top 40 DJ and the Strip Club DJ. Those are also fake voices that they adopt that are uniquely attached to that job.

00:22:25.000 Yeah, and so when I was in radio, people were like, dude, you're mental.

00:22:29.000 You're going to keep the name Jank Uger?

00:22:31.000 And the Jank is spelled with a C in the beginning? 1.00

00:22:34.000 They're like, you're nuts, dude. 0.99

00:22:36.000 Jack Unger, Jake... 1.00

00:22:38.000 Underwood, who cares?

00:22:40.000 Who cares, right?

00:22:41.000 And I even once ran into Gene Simmons at some local LA news station here.

00:22:47.000 We were both in the green room. 1.00

00:22:49.000 And he's like, oh, you're the dumbest guy I've ever met. 1.00

00:22:51.000 Who keeps a name like Cenk Uygur? 1.00

00:22:53.000 Okay, he's like, yeah, you just make up a name.

00:22:55.000 Gene Simmons is made up.

00:22:56.000 Kiss is made up. 1.00

00:22:57.000 Keep it simple, stupid. 1.00

00:22:58.000 Okay? 1.00

00:22:59.000 And so he yelled at me.

00:23:00.000 But what it turned out to be is kind of an ironic advantage.

00:23:03.000 Because there's no way Cenk Uygur isn't real.

00:23:06.000 Right.

00:23:07.000 Right?

00:23:07.000 That's my real name.

00:23:08.000 It's a pain in the ass. 0.99

00:23:10.000 But I'm not fake like everybody else on TV and radio. 0.99

00:23:13.000 And I'm not going to be like, hey, we're about this Jack Unger!

00:23:16.000 Right. 1.00

00:23:17.000 Doesn't everybody want to say fuck you to that guy? 1.00

00:23:20.000 Yeah, I think we do now. 1.00

00:23:21.000 We also want to say fuck you to politicians that talk like that, too. 1.00

00:23:25.000 Do you think there's going to be a time where we get a guy who talks in a political speech like that, like you? 1.00

00:23:30.000 Like a guy who just, who comes along and says, you know what, ladies and gentlemen, the United States that we know today, this great nation, We're tired of that.

00:23:42.000 We're tired of these weird pauses.

00:23:44.000 We're tired of this weird theatrical presentation.

00:23:47.000 You know, we would like someone who's running for president, who's running for any office, Congress, whatever.

00:23:53.000 Just talk. 0.99

00:23:54.000 Talk like a fucking normal human being. 1.00

00:23:56.000 You could talk with passion. 1.00

00:23:57.000 You could talk with energy.

00:23:58.000 You could talk with a real engaging sense of the present and still be you. 0.99

00:24:06.000 You don't have to be this fucking strip club DJ. You know, alright, on the main stage! 0.99

00:24:12.000 That same voice is repeated throughout strip clubs all across America. 0.99

00:24:16.000 I did this recent thing where I was calling in a bunch of radio stations because of a Comedy Central special that I had that was coming out And when I'm calling in to talk to them, there was three or four stations where I'm like, okay, this fucking guy,

00:24:31.000 I'm talking to the exact guy, he's just using a different voice, and now he's in Memphis, you know, and now he's in Dallas, and now he's in Ohio. 0.98

00:24:38.000 It's fucking crazy. 0.98

00:24:40.000 Like, they adopt that same fake voice. 0.99

00:24:42.000 We, you know, I think we need a change.

00:24:46.000 We certainly need a change in the way information is being broadcasted to people.

00:24:52.000 And that's a start.

00:24:53.000 So this Saturday, we held a debate for the 33rd Congressional District, Henry Waxman, is retiring.

00:24:59.000 And so there's like 15 people running and 12 of them showed up at the Young Turk Studios.

00:25:04.000 This is a U.S. Congressional seat.

00:25:06.000 And it's funny, the guys who had the...

00:25:10.000 We're higher up in the polls.

00:25:11.000 We're the guys who, unfortunately, more polished.

00:25:15.000 But polished meant they point to you like this.

00:25:18.000 They don't want to use a single finger.

00:25:20.000 They do the Bill Clinton point, or they do this, and then they talk in talking points.

00:25:24.000 But what was cool is that 9 out of 12 guys weren't like that.

00:25:28.000 And then you're like, oh, wow, a political debate where that guy's an actual human being.

00:25:33.000 And so when the guy with the talking point talked, it sounded weird.

00:25:36.000 Yeah.

00:25:37.000 Right?

00:25:38.000 Like, hey, why are you using that voice?

00:25:39.000 That's weird.

00:25:40.000 So it was an interesting contrast.

00:25:42.000 Yeah.

00:25:43.000 And I think people got to find...

00:25:44.000 And I did follow-up questions.

00:25:46.000 So they do their...

00:25:47.000 Like, you know how in a debate, you ask a question and then they'll just answer it any way they like.

00:25:51.000 Right?

00:25:51.000 That's what Sarah Palin realized.

00:25:53.000 Like, she was super nervous about debating Biden and then realized, oh, right, I don't have to actually answer any of the questions.

00:25:58.000 So she memorized what she was going to say about X number of topics.

00:26:03.000 And that's how she got through the debate.

00:26:05.000 So that's what they were doing, and then I was like, oh, that's interesting.

00:26:07.000 Okay, now, the question I asked was actually this.

00:26:10.000 Okay, so what's your real answer?

00:26:13.000 And so that was, I don't know, maybe we can change that too.

00:26:16.000 Well, I think that you saw that a lot in the early days of stand-up comedy.

00:26:21.000 There was a lot of guys who had the stand-up comedy way of talking.

00:26:26.000 It was almost like an affected thing that everybody borrowed when they went to do stand-up comedy.

00:26:32.000 And then as...

00:26:34.000 People started getting better.

00:26:36.000 You sort of dropped that and became more of yourself.

00:26:38.000 But I think, in a great sense, politicians don't have that luxury of practice.

00:26:44.000 So they try to sort of connect with what they think is the most effective voice possible, and that voice is the voice that sort of, in their head, represents professionalism.

00:26:56.000 That's it.

00:26:57.000 Yeah.

00:26:57.000 It's a weird term, right?

00:26:59.000 Professionalism is a weird term.

00:27:00.000 Yeah.

00:27:01.000 Because you want someone to be dedicated.

00:27:02.000 You want someone to be focused and disciplined. 0.99

00:27:06.000 But you don't want a fucking professional. 0.99

00:27:08.000 And the last place you want a professional is a politician. 1.00

00:27:11.000 Exactly.

00:27:12.000 Yeah.

00:27:13.000 So two things about that.

00:27:14.000 I talked to a consultant.

00:27:15.000 It was a political consultant. 1.00

00:27:17.000 And he said, look, Cenk, part of the reason we give him the talking points and try to keep them on message and make them sound robotic is because you'd be surprised how stupid they are. 1.00

00:27:27.000 And he's like, and if we just let them talk, they will make terrible mistakes, and they will lose. 0.99

00:27:32.000 One of my favorite moments in all politics is the Rick Perry moment where he forgot what he was talking about.

00:27:36.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:27:37.000 He forgot his points.

00:27:38.000 Yeah.

00:27:38.000 He just goes, I don't remember the other ones.

00:27:40.000 I'm like, that's it, dude, you're done.

00:27:42.000 He just tapped out.

00:27:43.000 I mean, he really did just tap out.

00:27:45.000 Yeah.

00:27:45.000 He literally said in that debate, like, he forgot, paused, paused, like, the most wonderful, awkward five seconds in any debate, and then, like, he said, oops.

00:27:54.000 Ha ha ha!

00:27:57.000 That, and then there's a homeboy from Vermont, what's his name, who was screaming.

00:28:03.000 Howard Dean.

00:28:04.000 Howard Dean.

00:28:04.000 It crushed him.

00:28:06.000 One, one, one yell.

00:28:09.000 One yell, and it tanked the whole thing. 0.98

00:28:12.000 Well, see, at that point, he'd already lost Iowa.

00:28:14.000 I actually really like Howard Dean, or I used to.

00:28:16.000 I do as well.

00:28:17.000 Right?

00:28:18.000 So, that was after he'd lost the big race.

00:28:23.000 So, he probably would have lost anyway.

00:28:25.000 And I think what really put a hatchet in him was the media.

00:28:29.000 Like, they didn't want a guy who was an actual, like...

00:28:38.000 We're good to go.

00:28:57.000 Right.

00:28:57.000 Well, folks who don't know, when you're in a large audience like that and you're yelling into a microphone, you don't usually have a monitor or anything in your ear.

00:29:08.000 So you don't know how you sound.

00:29:10.000 When something's broadcast directly into a microphone, that microphone is going directly into the recording device.

00:29:16.000 And it's very different than what you're hearing when you're yelling.

00:29:19.000 So if a bunch of people are screaming like...

00:29:21.000 And we're going to go straight to the White House!

00:29:25.000 You're yelling this where there's thousands of people also yelling.

00:29:29.000 There's an overwhelming amount of sound. 1.00

00:29:31.000 But what goes into that microphone is connected to your face, stupid. 1.00

00:29:35.000 And it's loud as fuck. 1.00

00:29:37.000 And people are going to hear this maniacal screech that comes out of you. 1.00

00:29:41.000 And it's not going to be in perspective.

00:29:43.000 It's not going to be in the perspective of the actual rally itself.

00:29:47.000 Yeah.

00:29:47.000 And look, whether it's media or politics, oftentimes people make the mistake of playing to the room instead of people watching, right?

00:29:54.000 And there's so many more people watching at home than there are people in that room.

00:29:58.000 So that's why politicians keep getting caught on tape because they're not used to the YouTube generation. 0.97

00:30:03.000 So like they'll go into a room full of funders and they'll be like, oh, doesn't the 47% suck? 0.99

00:30:08.000 Ha ha, screw the poor. 1.00

00:30:10.000 Yeah.

00:30:10.000 Then they'll go to another room with other people and say the exact opposite, and they'll just keep going room to room saying things that don't match up.

00:30:18.000 But dude, like, hello, catch up to 2014, everything's on tape, and then you play the two tapes next to each other, and they look like assholes. 0.92

00:30:28.000 And that's because they're used to playing to just whoever's in the room. 0.62

00:30:31.000 Yeah, they're used to playing to just whoever's in the room, and they're not used to the repercussions of the truth getting out there.

00:30:36.000 Because it's unescapable.

00:30:39.000 And I personally think this lack of privacy comes with a lot of concerns.

00:30:43.000 A lot of people are worried.

00:30:44.000 A lot of people, they look at the future and they say, well, we're not going to have any privacy anymore.

00:30:50.000 Yeah, but ultimately I think that the truth, it's more beneficial that people have complete total transparency across the board than it is for people to engage in the same sort of corrupt activities that have turned this nation into this,

00:31:05.000 it's basically a bought and sold system.

00:31:08.000 And there's no other way to get past that bought and sold system than ultimate complete total transparency.

00:31:14.000 And when you have that ultimate, complete, total transparency, which we're starting to see manifest itself in politics and in social media, this is kind of across the board.

00:31:23.000 It's a slow, steady progression to no secrets.

00:31:26.000 And I'm sorry, but that's just the way of the world.

00:31:29.000 It's going that way.

00:31:31.000 You could bemoan it.

00:31:32.000 You could scream at the top of your lungs, I'm moving to the woods. 1.00

00:31:35.000 I'm going to live off of fucking logs and I'm going to have my own well water. 0.98

00:31:39.000 You can do that, but everybody in the cities, everybody in the congested centers, population centers, they're not going to have secrets anymore. 0.99

00:31:46.000 It's just going to be.

00:31:47.000 Just like if someone was in China, you used to not be able to call them on the phone.

00:31:51.000 Well, you can now, because that's what happened.

00:31:54.000 And in the future, there's not going to be any secrets, man. 1.00

00:31:57.000 And so if you're running for politics, or if you're running for a political office, and you want to say shit like 47% of people aren't going to vote for me anyway, so fuck them. 0.99

00:32:07.000 People are going to know that that's your real attitude. 0.99

00:32:08.000 You're not going to be able to hide your attitude.

00:32:10.000 I think that's great because I don't believe that there's bad people out there, that it's only bad people that run for office, it's only bad people that can get into office, it's only bad people that run companies.

00:32:20.000 I think you allow bad people to run companies, bad people to run corporations because of the fact We're good to go.

00:32:41.000 So two things about that.

00:32:43.000 One, a great example of it is today with Donald Sterling.

00:32:46.000 Yes.

00:32:47.000 So he does his apology that they're going to broadcast on CNN tonight.

00:32:51.000 And for the transcript that they released, the parts, the excerpts that I saw, he never apologized to black people.

00:32:59.000 He apologizes to the other NBA owners.

00:33:03.000 And he says, you know, once in 35 years I did a slip up and it's just one mistake.

00:33:08.000 Can they find a way to forgive that?

00:33:10.000 What he's saying is, I slipped up in letting you know how I actually think.

00:33:16.000 So he hates transparency. 0.96

00:33:18.000 And he's like, God damn it, they caught me once. 0.97

00:33:22.000 But he doesn't get that, no, no, no, it's your mentality that's the problem. 0.98

00:33:27.000 Because they're so used to being like, I own the Clippers, I'm a multi-millionaire, you don't get to know anything about me.

00:33:34.000 And I could be as racist as I like.

00:33:36.000 I could cover it up, etc.

00:33:38.000 So this new world is shaking them up.

00:33:41.000 And they can't get used to it.

00:33:42.000 They can't wrap their mind around it.

00:33:44.000 And he keeps thinking, like, why can't I just take that back?

00:33:46.000 And then everybody goes back to not realizing I'm a racist.

00:33:50.000 So that's part of it.

00:33:52.000 The other part is that we've got this split, right?

00:33:55.000 Where you have television and radio and all that that's super fake.

00:33:59.000 And then you have the new media, like your podcast, like what we do online with video, that's super real.

00:34:06.000 And it's a fascinating clash.

00:34:09.000 And old media hates us.

00:34:11.000 Like, they don't want to acknowledge we're real.

00:34:14.000 Like, even, like...

00:34:17.000 People that work in media, when they're covering it, like when we say, okay, we got this many views, et cetera, they're Google verified, go check with Google.

00:34:25.000 They're like, I don't know, I can't understand internet numbers.

00:34:29.000 Well, then maybe you shouldn't do that job.

00:34:31.000 You can't understand the internet numbers?

00:34:32.000 The internet numbers are the only numbers that are real.

00:34:35.000 That's right.

00:34:36.000 If you look at numbers like the ratings for a television show, if anybody knows how television shows are ratings, it's voodoo. 0.60

00:34:45.000 It's crazy.

00:34:46.000 There's like, I don't know how many thousand boxes that are supposed to represent 300 plus million people.

00:34:52.000 But it's nonsense. 0.99

00:34:53.000 Those Nielsen ratings are fucking crazy. 1.00

00:34:56.000 Like, they really don't know. 0.99

00:34:57.000 Not only that, the reality of the difference between the Nielsen ratings and the ratings that they've pulled from digital boxes, from DVRs, it's a very different number.

00:35:08.000 It's a very different number.

00:35:09.000 And there's a lot of shows that would benefit from them releasing the numbers that are on DVRs, the numbers that are on satellite boxes and cable boxes.

00:35:18.000 But they can't really do that because they can't acknowledge, first of all, the fact that they keep track of what everybody's watching all the time.

00:35:25.000 And then also, the Nielsen system is like an established system that people have been benefiting from for a long time.

00:35:33.000 And to throw that out and shake it up would...

00:35:36.000 Millions of dollars would change hands.

00:35:38.000 See, that's a huge advantage for us, though, because we can tell them exactly what they're doing wrong, and they can say, hey, Joe, Cenk, you're right, but they can't turn the ship around because they already make too much money doing what they do.

00:35:51.000 And yes, they're killing off their audience.

00:35:54.000 Yes, eventually they'll hit that iceberg and sink so quick, right?

00:35:57.000 But they can't stop doing what they're doing because their ship is too damn big, and they can't turn it around.

00:36:03.000 So, hey, sad day for them.

00:36:05.000 Isn't that sort of the same thing with politics as well, with corporations as well?

00:36:09.000 It's like, what they've done for the longest time is just, that's how they extract money.

00:36:14.000 That's how they get money out of the system.

00:36:16.000 That's what they do.

00:36:17.000 And for the longest time, they've done it this way to put a pause on it and sort of reshuffle and redistribute where the money's going. 0.99

00:36:27.000 It's like, fuck, that's too hard. 0.99

00:36:28.000 We're just gonna crash into the rocks. 1.00

00:36:29.000 Let's just ride this bitch right into the beach, hit the rocks, The boat will shatter. 1.00

00:36:34.000 We'll get off. 1.00

00:36:34.000 Whoever survives, survives. 1.00

00:36:36.000 We'll make a new boat.

00:36:37.000 It seems like that's what they're doing.

00:36:39.000 So, two things about that.

00:36:41.000 Now, first, on the radio end, do you know how they do radio ratings?

00:36:44.000 Because it'll blow your mind.

00:36:45.000 Arbitron, yeah.

00:36:46.000 Those books they send out to people.

00:36:48.000 What were you listening to?

00:36:49.000 Oh, this.

00:36:50.000 Yeah, I mean, of course, 99% of the population doesn't know how they get the radio ratings, and they send out these books, and you have to fill it out for three months.

00:36:58.000 What were you listening in 15-minute increments?

00:37:01.000 And everybody fills it out at the very end when they have to turn it in.

00:37:04.000 So they're like, okay, a month and a half ago at 2.15 p.m., I don't know.

00:37:11.000 I think I was listening to Rush.

00:37:13.000 I don't know.

00:37:14.000 Do they pay them to fill those books out?

00:37:15.000 I think like five bucks.

00:37:17.000 So they're just like, give me the five bucks.

00:37:18.000 I don't care.

00:37:19.000 It was comical.

00:37:20.000 Comical, right?

00:37:21.000 How low did they pay?

00:37:23.000 So everybody makes it up.

00:37:25.000 So the radio numbers are pure fiction.

00:37:29.000 Pure fiction.

00:37:30.000 So then that was the old days.

00:37:31.000 Now they're going to people meters, which is a little bit more accurate.

00:37:34.000 And then when they went to people meters, they're like, oh my god.

00:37:37.000 Nobody listens to Rush Limbaugh.

00:37:39.000 Nobody.

00:37:40.000 Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, nobody listens to them.

00:37:43.000 What are the numbers?

00:37:44.000 What's the difference between what they thought it was?

00:37:46.000 Really?

00:37:47.000 Yeah, so first of all, the number that Rush Limbaugh used to go with was, he threw out a number, a fake number.

00:37:53.000 Excellence in broadcasting.

00:37:54.000 Right.

00:37:55.000 His fake number was $20 million.

00:37:56.000 Nobody ever questioned where he got that number.

00:37:58.000 Nobody even knows if it's per week or per month.

00:38:02.000 Right.

00:38:02.000 Isn't that funny?

00:38:03.000 Like, what do you mean?

00:38:04.000 That's a big difference, right?

00:38:05.000 He's like, 20 million.

00:38:06.000 That's it.

00:38:07.000 Okay? 0.98

00:38:07.000 And then Talkers Magazine did a bullshit guess and they're like, mmm, 14 million. 0.98

00:38:13.000 Okay, first of all, the difference between 14 and 20 is pretty substantial, but it doesn't really matter.

00:38:16.000 So a reporter asked Michael Harrison from Talkers Magazine, he's like, where'd you get the 14 million?

00:38:21.000 He's like, I guess.

00:38:24.000 It's amazing.

00:38:25.000 They don't know.

00:38:26.000 They don't know at all.

00:38:27.000 So the difference per market between what Rush claimed to be getting and then what he got in the people meters, that level of detail, I don't know.

00:38:35.000 I do know that WABC in New York, which is the main conservative talk station, is thinking of changing format.

00:38:41.000 Because that's how disastrous it was.

00:38:43.000 Glenn Beck lost to San Francisco and Philly, I think, immediately.

00:38:48.000 As soon as they found out the real numbers.

00:38:51.000 And Sean Hannity is in a tailspin.

00:38:53.000 So they've still got money to milk from that system. 0.83

00:38:56.000 They still have their contracts that last for X number of years, right?

00:39:00.000 But they're on their way out.

00:39:02.000 So those numbers are super fake.

00:39:04.000 Now, compared to that, if you go tell an old media writer Whatever, name it.

00:39:09.000 You know, New York Times, whatever, CNN. And you say Young Turks is bigger than Rush Limbaugh, they'll laugh you out of the room.

00:39:16.000 No way they believe that.

00:39:18.000 No way, right?

00:39:18.000 But the reality is, he's nowhere near 14 million listeners a month.

00:39:23.000 Nowhere near it.

00:39:24.000 And Google verified 24 million uniques, let alone 64 million views, right?

00:39:31.000 We're at least twice as large as Rush Limbaugh.

00:39:36.000 But old media won't let it go.

00:39:38.000 There's no media hype behind you.

00:39:39.000 There's no promotion.

00:39:41.000 I got to you from my internet message board.

00:39:45.000 Just complete word of mouth.

00:39:47.000 Somebody threw up a video, check this out.

00:39:49.000 I don't even remember what was the original thing, but I remember, oh, this is a cool show.

00:39:53.000 Oh, I like it.

00:39:54.000 Boom.

00:39:54.000 And then I started listening and paying attention.

00:39:56.000 And that's how you spread. 0.98

00:39:58.000 Whereas, you know, if it's Rush Limbo, Excellence in Broadcasting, or Sean Hannity, I mean, there's a whole fucking machine behind these things. 0.97

00:40:05.000 There's a whole... 0.91

00:40:06.000 I mean, it's a part...

00:40:07.000 The Sean Hannity thing is particularly disturbing to me because what he represents to me is, like, this sort of consolidated ignorance. 0.73

00:40:14.000 Like, this decision to be ignorant about things.

00:40:17.000 Like, we're on the right...

00:40:19.000 We're right wing and we're going to stick with the American flag behind me and God bless our troops and cut to commercial.

00:40:26.000 And this sort of agreement to not delve into the nuances of very difficult topics and to take a hard stance towards the right, I think that's one of the most damaging things about the whole paradigm of the right and the left.

00:40:41.000 Is this hardline, you know, almost religious acceptance of one side or the other.

00:40:47.000 And it was really personified with Hannity, a bunch of things, but recently by this Bundy Ranch incident. 1.00

00:40:52.000 This fucking crazy asshole in Nevada that these shitheads got behind. 1.00

00:40:57.000 This guy is fucking crazy. 1.00

00:40:59.000 He's crazy, and he says a bunch of nutty, racist shit, like black people were better off when they were slaves on the plantation, because now I go to Vegas, and I see them running around, and they're not going to school, and they're getting each other pregnant. 1.00

00:41:13.000 Like, what, what, what? 1.00

00:41:14.000 You fucking take... 1.00

00:41:15.000 Time off of your ranch, you drive through a bad neighborhood in Vegas, and you decide you've got a fucking synopsis of black people? 1.00

00:41:23.000 Like, holy shit, this is the guy you fucking people got behind? 1.00

00:41:26.000 A guy who's this nutty fuck who's letting his cows roam all over the place eating grass, he doesn't want to pay for it? 1.00

00:41:32.000 Like... 1.00

00:41:33.000 It's bizarre.

00:41:34.000 It's a very bizarre thing.

00:41:36.000 But they saw him, they saw this Bundy character as sort of this poster guy for America that's fed up with the intrusion of the federal government into our lives and the socialist Obama network.

00:41:52.000 And Hannity jumps on board with this. 0.99

00:41:55.000 And now he just looks like a complete fucking idiot when more and more of this information comes out about this guy. 1.00

00:42:00.000 So he says black people, Bundy does, black people mooch off the government. 1.00

00:42:05.000 Dude, you owe the government a million bucks. 1.00

00:42:07.000 A lot more than that.

00:42:08.000 It was like nine million or something crazy like that.

00:42:10.000 For like more than a decade, right?

00:42:13.000 The whole point of this controversy is that you're mooching off the government.

00:42:16.000 Yeah, a lot more than a welfare person.

00:42:18.000 Right.

00:42:19.000 I mean like literally a million times more than a welfare person.

00:42:21.000 And then imagine if the situation was reversed.

00:42:25.000 Like they decided they're not going to pay their taxes in Compton.

00:42:28.000 Reversed racially, right?

00:42:30.000 And... 0.61

00:42:30.000 Then they're like, oh, if the government comes here to collect the taxes, fees, whatever, all the black folks in Compton are going to grab their guns, and then they're going to point them at the federal government and make them back down. 0.61

00:42:41.000 What do you think Hannity's reaction to that would have been? 0.95

00:42:44.000 Like, oh, new black potter party destroyed the country in Obama years! 1.00

00:42:49.000 How can they do this? 1.00

00:42:50.000 These are good, honest cops, and they don't respect authority, and all of these black people and their guns are dangerous, right? 1.00

00:42:57.000 White militia shows up with guns. 1.00

00:42:59.000 They're like, yeah, fuck the federal government. 1.00

00:43:01.000 It's fascinating. 1.00

00:43:02.000 Yeah, it is fascinating.

00:43:03.000 And those people that did show up, you know, the real problem with any of those subjects is that people have this sort of knee-jerk side that they take, this knee-jerk reaction they take.

00:43:14.000 You see a bunch of cops with dogs, and they're telling this rancher.

00:43:17.000 You think of a rancher as a farmer.

00:43:19.000 You think of a farmer as America, the backbone of America, a guy who's farming.

00:43:23.000 But there's a lot going on here. 0.98

00:43:25.000 This is a big, fucking, long, complicated tale. 0.99

00:43:29.000 And you can't describe it in five minutes, and you can't break it down to a guy like Sean Hannity that has a billion other fucking things on his mind. 0.99

00:43:36.000 He just sees it as a category. 0.98

00:43:39.000 Oh, it's on the right, right support, white people. 0.93

00:43:42.000 Yeah, they don't want Obama, we got a black president. 1.00

00:43:44.000 Fuck yeah, run with it. 1.00

00:43:45.000 It's this really complex issue that they just shuffle in, and it kind of highlights why that system sucks. 1.00

00:43:54.000 I mean, it's one of the best stories, one of the best recent stories to highlight why this right-left paradigm on television really sucks. 1.00

00:44:03.000 So one of my big surprises when I got into the talk show world was how stupid Sean Hannity is. 0.98

00:44:09.000 And honestly, because when I went in, I thought, okay, look, if I make it on TV and I might have to debate somebody like Sean Hannity, I've got to really come correct, right? 0.99

00:44:18.000 I've got to make sure that I've got all my information, etc.

00:44:22.000 And then as I heard him throughout the years, I'd be like, Wait, wait.

00:44:26.000 Those two thoughts were not connected.

00:44:28.000 There was no logical nexus, right?

00:44:31.000 And then I realized, oh my god, he's just going from one talking point to another.

00:44:34.000 He's another news actor, but he's paid to be conservative Republican propaganda news actor. 1.00

00:44:40.000 He's just reading the shit. 1.00

00:44:42.000 He never makes logical sense. 1.00

00:44:45.000 It's like you could be Republican or you could be a conservative like Ron Paul.

00:44:49.000 He makes sense.

00:44:50.000 Yes.

00:44:50.000 Like you agree or disagree, but you go, okay, I understand the logical jumps he's making here.

00:44:55.000 And he's like, no, this is my talking point on how I hate Obama.

00:44:57.000 The next thing sounds like the exact opposite, but it's still a talking point about I hate Obama. 1.00

00:45:02.000 And so I was like, oh, wow, these guys are dumb. 0.99

00:45:04.000 Well, this is going to be easy. 1.00

00:45:06.000 I don't know if it's dumb as much as... 0.97

00:45:10.000 It's not thought out. 0.97

00:45:13.000 There's also no motivation to be open-minded or objective or look at it from a different angle.

00:45:22.000 The motivation is to fall into a category that's easy to profit off of.

00:45:26.000 Yeah, so you're right.

00:45:27.000 And they get paid to be on a certain team.

00:45:29.000 I mean, look, I went through that at MSNBC. What was that like?

00:45:33.000 Because you're uniquely qualified to discuss this because you've been behind the scenes.

00:45:37.000 Yeah. 0.93

00:45:39.000 So, and just to be clear, they're not all dumb.

00:45:41.000 I mean, Bill O'Reilly, I think, is a really smart guy.

00:45:44.000 You know, agree or disagree.

00:45:45.000 I mean, that guy knows how to do broadcasting.

00:45:47.000 The tide comes in, the tide comes out.

00:45:48.000 You can't explain it.

00:45:49.000 You can't explain that.

00:45:51.000 Not one of his top moments.

00:45:54.000 Maybe it is, because maybe he shows what he's doing. 0.99

00:45:56.000 He's playing to all those fucking monkeys out there that agree with him. 1.00

00:46:00.000 Just sucking money out of their accounts. 1.00

00:46:02.000 But at least he knows how to play to them, right?

00:46:03.000 Yes.

00:46:04.000 And so he's bright in that sense, unlike Hannity, I think.

00:46:08.000 So the guy's on the right...

00:46:12.000 We're good to go.

00:46:25.000 A station in Minnesota.

00:46:27.000 And the guy's like, I loved it, the program director.

00:46:29.000 I'm like, oh, great.

00:46:30.000 So what are you thinking?

00:46:31.000 What time slot?

00:46:32.000 And he's like, no, no, no time slot.

00:46:33.000 I said, why?

00:46:34.000 He said, everyone we have here is conservative on the air.

00:46:37.000 If I put you on the air, my audience will hate you and then they will hate me.

00:46:43.000 So if you want to be on this station, you have to be conservative.

00:46:48.000 So if those guys had a genuine change of opinion, well, they'd lose their jobs.

00:46:55.000 Yeah.

00:47:20.000 It's one thing to be conservative or to be progressive.

00:47:24.000 I think that's totally fine.

00:47:25.000 The Nation is a progressive magazine.

00:47:27.000 That's who they are, right?

00:47:29.000 We're progressive.

00:47:30.000 That's who we are.

00:47:31.000 But we're not on Team Democrat.

00:47:34.000 So if a Democrat is not doing something progressive, we're going to call him out.

00:47:37.000 To me, that's obvious.

00:47:40.000 I don't even...

00:47:42.000 I had trouble comprehending that other people didn't think that way, right?

00:47:46.000 To them, who cares what your ideas are, man?

00:47:49.000 Your principles, what are you talking about?

00:47:52.000 Right.

00:47:52.000 No, no, no.

00:47:53.000 This is Team Democrat, and you stay on this team.

00:47:56.000 So, I mean, I don't know if you ever heard the story, but, like, the reason I left MSNBC is I got a speech from the head of the network, Phil Griffin, who said, hey, look, man, I'd love to be an outsider.

00:48:07.000 Outsiders wear leather jackets, they ride motorcycles, they're super cool, but...

00:48:12.000 I'm like, oh, I didn't know that.

00:48:14.000 I've never ridden a motorcycle.

00:48:15.000 Most guys actually kind of scare me.

00:48:16.000 They scare me too.

00:48:17.000 Yeah.

00:48:19.000 He said, but this is NBC. We're insiders.

00:48:22.000 And I was just in Washington.

00:48:24.000 They're not happy with your tone.

00:48:26.000 And...

00:48:27.000 We're the establishment here, and you've got to start acting like it.

00:48:30.000 Whoa! 0.71

00:48:31.000 Isn't that amazing?

00:48:32.000 It's not just amazing, it's like a scene in a movie.

00:48:34.000 Exactly!

00:48:35.000 That's what I always say.

00:48:36.000 I felt like I was in a movie.

00:48:37.000 And I was like, dude, maybe he got off on that.

00:48:41.000 Maybe he felt like he was in a movie, and he was going to give this big speech, right?

00:48:44.000 Right.

00:48:45.000 But as I talked to, I don't want to name the person, but I talked to another anchor that was there, that we had lunch, and that person was like...

00:48:53.000 Why did he say that to you?

00:48:56.000 You're supposed to be more subtle than that.

00:48:58.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:48:58.000 That was such a stupid thing to say, and especially to you. 1.00

00:49:01.000 You came out of the internet. 1.00

00:49:02.000 The whole thing is truth-telling and being super progressive.

00:49:06.000 Why did he say that to you?

00:49:07.000 And not even give you a raise while he's telling you.

00:49:10.000 The way to do it is to say, listen, you're an insider, so I have a new package for you, and this package is shares and this.

00:49:19.000 See, Joe, you nailed it.

00:49:21.000 You nailed it, because that's what came next.

00:49:23.000 No!

00:49:24.000 Okay, so in that speech, I've been working at MSNBC as a host, and then Keith Urban leaves.

00:49:33.000 They give me the 6 o'clock slot, right?

00:49:35.000 And I'm on there from January to April, okay? 0.99

00:49:39.000 At that point, April I get the speech, and I think to myself, fuck that. 0.99

00:49:43.000 I'm not doing that, right? 0.98

00:49:45.000 I will go the opposite direction.

00:49:46.000 I'll criticize Obama more.

00:49:48.000 I'll criticize the Democrats more, right?

00:49:50.000 Because I don't want to play their game and then, like, get...

00:49:52.000 Mediocre ratings and then they say you got...

00:49:54.000 So I turned it on.

00:49:56.000 Between April and the beginning of July, I murdered in the ratings.

00:50:00.000 Highest ratings they ever got at 6 o'clock.

00:50:02.000 Because I was more me.

00:50:04.000 And so stylistically, I listened to them.

00:50:07.000 They would say, be more senatorial.

00:50:09.000 I'm like, why would you want to do that?

00:50:11.000 Senatorial? 0.94

00:50:12.000 I'm like, senators are the most boring people I've ever met.

00:50:15.000 Why would you want to do that? 0.98

00:50:16.000 That's crazy.

00:50:17.000 Anyway, so I opened it up and then...

00:50:21.000 At the end of June, Phil calls me back in, to your point, right?

00:50:25.000 And he's like, Cenk, we decided we're going to put you on the weekends, not on primetime at 6, okay?

00:50:31.000 And we're going to give that to somebody else.

00:50:33.000 I was like, oh, that's interesting.

00:50:34.000 Like, I was prepared for it because I had gotten a speech a couple months earlier about how— And you kind of ignored it.

00:50:40.000 Right, yeah.

00:50:40.000 And I knew—that's when I was like, I'm done with this, right?

00:50:43.000 Right.

00:50:43.000 Like, if they want to keep me because I got kick-ass ratings, great!

00:50:46.000 I'd love it, okay?

00:50:47.000 As long as they let me say what I'm going to say. 1.00

00:50:49.000 If they don't want to keep me, fuck them, okay? 1.00

00:50:51.000 So he pulls me in and I said, okay, Phil, so let's go through a quick exercise here. 1.00

00:50:56.000 Are my ratings good?

00:50:57.000 Well, I can't deny it.

00:50:59.000 Yeah, they're the best they've gotten at six.

00:51:00.000 Yeah, they're great.

00:51:02.000 Am I Dick? 1.00

00:51:04.000 Has anybody in the building said, hey, Cenk's a dick. 1.00

00:51:06.000 He's hard to work with, right? 1.00

00:51:07.000 Nope.

00:51:09.000 Everybody likes you in the building, right?

00:51:11.000 Great relationships, right?

00:51:14.000 Right.

00:51:15.000 I said, so if you put me on the weekends and it's not related to the speech, then how would I ever get out of the weekends?

00:51:23.000 Then what is it related to?

00:51:25.000 If I murdered on the weekends, I already murdered at 6 o'clock on the rating.

00:51:30.000 So I said, what is it?

00:51:31.000 And he stood there for about 30 seconds without any answer.

00:51:35.000 And I was like, wow.

00:51:36.000 And then he said, I'll double your salary.

00:51:43.000 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:51:45.000 I'll double your salary, but what?

00:51:47.000 I'll double your salary and put you on the weekends still?

00:51:49.000 Yes.

00:51:50.000 So you go from prime time to weekends, but they offered me literally double my salary and for a three-year contract.

00:51:59.000 Wow.

00:52:00.000 So they thought, there's no way I'm going to turn that kind of money down.

00:52:03.000 Like, I've been a struggling radio host and an internet host my whole life at that point, right?

00:52:08.000 There's no way I'm going to turn that down.

00:52:11.000 And, you know...

00:52:12.000 Look...

00:52:14.000 It's easy to say they don't know me, haha, I'm a tough guy, yada yada.

00:52:17.000 But the reality is what they underestimated was the size of our audience.

00:52:22.000 I knew that I could go online, which I never left.

00:52:25.000 I did the online show while I was at MSMC. People were like, well, you already got on TV. What are you still bothering with the online thing?

00:52:29.000 I'm like, no, no, no, you schmucks. 1.00

00:52:31.000 The real deal's online. 1.00

00:52:32.000 So I had the luxury of being able to go back to this giant audience online and telling them to fuck off. 1.00

00:52:38.000 That's beautiful. 1.00

00:52:38.000 And explaining your story. 1.00

00:52:40.000 Yeah.

00:52:41.000 But you see, that's exactly it.

00:52:43.000 You nailed it again. 0.92

00:52:43.000 Because part of the reason they double your salary is so you shut up. 0.92

00:52:50.000 Okay.

00:52:50.000 So they say, oh, progressives, what are you talking about?

00:52:52.000 I got this fire breather Cenk Uygur from the Young Turks on on the weekends.

00:52:56.000 He's part of our staple.

00:52:57.000 Ask him.

00:52:58.000 Ask him.

00:52:58.000 And then you have to come out and be like, yes, MSNBC is very good.

00:53:02.000 They like progressives.

00:53:03.000 And you're thinking about your boat.

00:53:04.000 You're thinking about your vacation house.

00:53:05.000 You're thinking about your vacations. 1.00

00:53:07.000 You're thinking about all this shit that that money provides you. 1.00

00:53:10.000 Yeah, yeah. 1.00

00:53:10.000 Oh, that's hilarious. 1.00

00:53:11.000 And I got young kids.

00:53:12.000 Yeah.

00:53:13.000 And look, if you didn't have the luxury that I had, think about if you're in one of the other host positions.

00:53:19.000 There is no fallback.

00:53:20.000 The fallback is a cliff.

00:53:22.000 You're either going to get paid really well, you're going to be a star, they treat you so well when you're there, car rides everywhere, first class everywhere, etc.

00:53:32.000 Or you face the abyss.

00:53:34.000 Nothing.

00:53:35.000 And you become unhirable.

00:53:38.000 That's right.

00:53:39.000 If you don't work well with MSNBC, why would CNBC pick you up?

00:53:43.000 Why would this network or that network pick you up?

00:53:46.000 They wouldn't.

00:53:46.000 The word goes out in the street, he doesn't play ball.

00:53:49.000 The Oberman thing was an interesting thing, because I don't know Keith Oberman.

00:53:53.000 I've heard he's difficult in a lot of ways, but it's fascinating to see him go from being this fireball, anti-government crusader, this sort of like, I mean, he kind of, in a classic sense, sort of an Edward R. Murrow character,

00:54:10.000 and then now he's talking about baseball.

00:54:13.000 It's weird.

00:54:14.000 Like, I watch him on ESPN, and I'm waiting for these fiery political statements, these big, strong monologues that he used to create.

00:54:25.000 I mean, they were very long-winded.

00:54:27.000 The monologues could have done with some editing.

00:54:29.000 Yeah.

00:54:29.000 For sure, right?

00:54:31.000 They were so verbose and obvious and they reeked of ego because it wasn't just a statement.

00:54:36.000 It was him trying to make a statement in an eloquent way that would be impressive.

00:54:41.000 It smelled like that.

00:54:43.000 You picked it up and you're like, I don't think this is good. 1.00

00:54:47.000 I'm with him on a lot of shit, but I don't like it. 0.99

00:54:49.000 I don't like your monologues. 1.00

00:54:51.000 They're too long.

00:54:52.000 There's too much funkiness in them.

00:54:55.000 So, Obermann.

00:54:57.000 Obermann.

00:54:58.000 It sounds like the Obermann show.

00:55:00.000 Yeah.

00:55:01.000 He's a complicated character.

00:55:03.000 Lots of upsides and lots of downsides.

00:55:05.000 And so, the upside to what you're discussing, the commentaries that he did, was that he changed the face of television.

00:55:13.000 Before that, it was all conservative.

00:55:16.000 Okay?

00:55:16.000 And he did it despite MSNBC saying...

00:55:20.000 Under penalty of law, do not do that special comment on the show. 0.88

00:55:24.000 And Oberman being crazy, that was the upside of crazy.

00:55:27.000 He's like, hmm, that's kind of your opinion, man. 0.53

00:55:29.000 My opinion is I'm going to go do this commentary.

00:55:32.000 And when it worked and it got such great ratings, then management got behind him and pretended to be on his side the whole time.

00:55:38.000 Like, of course!

00:55:38.000 Of course!

00:55:39.000 Of course we want him to do the special comments, sure!

00:55:42.000 And they realized that there was a racket to be had in Team Democrat, right?

00:55:46.000 But at least Obermann, even the score, it was like, okay, now you have MSNBC doing democratic talking points, and I'm not taking anything away from Obermann.

00:55:55.000 I think he's principled on his politics.

00:55:57.000 And then you had Fox News doing it.

00:56:00.000 So that was a huge breakthrough.

00:56:02.000 So he's kind of a historic figure in that sense. 0.99

00:56:05.000 On the other hand, he's crazy. 0.99

00:56:07.000 Like, just crazy. 0.98

00:56:09.000 Like, it went way.

00:56:10.000 Crazy.

00:56:11.000 Okay.

00:56:12.000 Folks not listening, Cenk's eyebrows went way up, his eyes got very large.

00:56:17.000 And so that's why they put into his ESPN contract that he's not allowed to talk about politics.

00:56:22.000 Oh.

00:56:23.000 Right, that's why he's, and he loves sports, that's genuine, right?

00:56:27.000 So he's just doing sports, and he's, look, a great example, it was Ashley Banfield, Back when MSNBC was conservative, before the Obermann special comments and stuff around the Iraq War, exactly as the Iraq War was happening, she did this speech at a college in Kansas and said,

00:56:44.000 this is crazy, the Iraq War.

00:56:47.000 We shouldn't do this.

00:56:48.000 Explain why, really eloquent, really smart.

00:56:52.000 MSNBC said, yeah, you're off there.

00:56:55.000 And they literally moved her into a closet. 1.00

00:56:58.000 And so they say, we're not going to let you out of your contract.

00:57:01.000 You're not allowed to say that.

00:57:02.000 And they moved our office into a closet. 1.00

00:57:05.000 That sent a message to everybody, shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up. 0.99

00:57:09.000 And so if you don't play team ball, that's the fate that waits you. 0.98

00:57:13.000 And so Keith has kind of been banished into the closet of sports.

00:57:21.000 Yeah.

00:57:21.000 Like, it's a closet we like.

00:57:22.000 I like sports.

00:57:23.000 You know, he likes sports.

00:57:25.000 But they're not going to let him out again to talk about politics.

00:57:29.000 Why doesn't he go online?

00:57:31.000 Probably too old school.

00:57:32.000 It's hard for him to figure it out.

00:57:34.000 I mean, look, man, you're going to go online like you do what we do.

00:57:37.000 You got to be hungry, right? 0.99

00:57:39.000 You got to be ready to, like, roll up your sleeves and take a lot of shit and get battered and then get back up and stuff. 0.99

00:57:46.000 Those old school guys who've made a gazillion dollars, they don't have it in them. 0.99

00:57:51.000 That's interesting.

00:57:52.000 That's an interesting comment.

00:57:54.000 Yeah, you definitely can get too used to that whole system of everything being set up for you.

00:57:58.000 Like I have a buddy who does a podcast and he does a podcast on a network.

00:58:04.000 And the network is owned by a major television network and they were censoring his podcast. 0.99

00:58:09.000 And I was like, what the fuck are you doing, man? 0.99

00:58:10.000 This is a podcast. 1.00

00:58:12.000 The last thing you want is someone telling you what you can and can't say and taking the bad words out of your mouth on the fucking internet? 1.00

00:58:17.000 Are you crazy? 1.00

00:58:19.000 You're ruining everything that's great about the internet and doing it this way. 0.73

00:58:22.000 But he was like, well, how do I do it outside of that?

00:58:25.000 I'm like, oh, come on, man. 0.98

00:58:26.000 You fucking get a microphone, you plug it into an mp3 recorder, and you start talking. 0.99

00:58:31.000 And then you take that, and then you throw it online. 1.00

00:58:34.000 It's that simple.

00:58:35.000 And if it grows, it grows.

00:58:36.000 You throw seeds out the window.

00:58:38.000 Some of them will become trees. 1.00

00:58:39.000 You know, just fucking do it. 0.99

00:58:41.000 Just do it. 1.00

00:58:43.000 Too much work.

00:58:44.000 Too much thinking.

00:58:45.000 Too outside the box.

00:58:46.000 Plus, a guy like Keith has been on TV for so long.

00:58:49.000 I keep calling him Keith like we're friends.

00:58:51.000 We're not.

00:58:51.000 I mean, so...

00:58:52.000 Do you know him?

00:58:53.000 Have you had conversations with him?

00:58:54.000 I've had a couple conversations with him.

00:58:56.000 On a 1 to 10 wackiness?

00:58:59.000 10. Whoa.

00:59:01.000 Yeah.

00:59:01.000 Strong.

00:59:03.000 Now I want him on as a guest.

00:59:05.000 I want to bring him on.

00:59:06.000 Is he allowed to do interviews where he talks about politics, where he talks about things?

00:59:09.000 I would be shocked, but I don't know.

00:59:11.000 I bet he's not, right? 0.99

00:59:12.000 I bet they fucking trapped him. 0.97

00:59:15.000 Plus, I bet he doesn't do it. 0.99

00:59:17.000 So, like, if you're on TV, Rachel Maddow gave me a great speech before I ever got on TV, warning me about TV. Really?

00:59:23.000 Because we used to work together at Air America, and then she was really helpful and stuff at MSNBC. And she's like, just, it'll get into your head.

00:59:32.000 Don't let it get into your head, man.

00:59:34.000 Because you take one too many limo rides, you'll have one too many people telling you how great you are, And then you lose track of what reality is.

00:59:43.000 And so a guy like Obermann, who's been on TV for so long and so successful for so long, he spins into an orbit where he thinks he can't do anything wrong.

00:59:52.000 And the ego becomes so gigantic that it can't be punctured.

00:59:56.000 So if he were to go online, it would get punctured, right?

01:00:01.000 There's a lot of compliments online, but there's a lot of criticism, right?

01:00:06.000 And an ego that large cannot handle that.

01:00:08.000 Yeah, I agree.

01:00:09.000 I think that I find great benefit in that criticism. 0.97

01:00:12.000 I mean, I know that some of it's completely unfounded, and some of it is just 100% douchebags that are just assholes, and you go to their Twitter page, and you'll see just them just shitting on one person after another, just random people that they don't know, celebrities, commenters, people that have blogs, 0.99

01:00:30.000 whatever, and just hate, hate, hate, hate, hate. 0.99

01:00:32.000 There's folks like that.

01:00:33.000 There's also folks that will say something that you don't want to hear, but you should hear it.

01:00:38.000 And you take that into consideration, and it'll make you better.

01:00:42.000 It really will. 0.99

01:00:43.000 And the Obermans or the people that don't want to engage in that, your ego's going to take a beating, but your fucking ego should take a beating. 0.98

01:00:52.000 Your ego's a dangerous thing, and if it grows too much, it can create a canopy that doesn't let all the other things grow underneath it. 0.98

01:01:00.000 That's 100% right.

01:01:02.000 So some people hate the comment section on YouTube.

01:01:05.000 I don't.

01:01:06.000 I love it.

01:01:06.000 I mean, I know there's mental people on there.

01:01:09.000 And if you listen to every comment, you're going to lose your mind. 0.91

01:01:12.000 Don't do that.

01:01:13.000 You can't do that.

01:01:13.000 Right.

01:01:14.000 But overall, if 80% of the audience is agreeing to something, it's almost certainly correct.

01:01:22.000 So if they tell you, hey, you're going in this wrong direction...

01:01:26.000 Well, I take note of that, man, and I adjust.

01:01:28.000 If you don't adjust, they're trying to help you.

01:01:31.000 You know what they are?

01:01:32.000 In the new media, they're your editor.

01:01:34.000 They're your editor saying, hey, don't do that. 1.00

01:01:36.000 You look like an asshole. 1.00

01:01:37.000 Do this. 1.00

01:01:38.000 And if 80% of them agree on something, I've never seen it be wrong.

01:01:42.000 And sometimes there's a thing that you're doing when you're discussing an issue where someone might have a criticism on it.

01:01:49.000 And it's one of the things that I like about doing this show is that this show is three hours long.

01:01:53.000 And one of the things in having a three-hour conversation is that you get to really thoroughly discuss a point.

01:01:59.000 Because you could take snippets out of a lot of things.

01:02:01.000 There was a thing they did on Real Sports the other day about Fallon Fox.

01:02:06.000 Do you know who Fallon Fox is?

01:02:07.000 She's a woman who used to be a man who decided to get a sex change and then fight in women's MMA. And me, as a martial arts expert, I was like, I do not agree with that at all. 0.68

01:02:19.000 Because there's certain undeniable advantages of the human frame, of the male frame, when it comes to combat sports.

01:02:26.000 When it comes to being a woman or being transgender, I'm 100% in support of it.

01:02:30.000 You should be able to do whatever you want, man.

01:02:31.000 If you want to marry your desk, I'm for it. 1.00

01:02:34.000 If you want to live with cats in the woods, I don't give a fuck. 1.00

01:02:38.000 Just don't hurt anybody. 0.99

01:02:39.000 I couldn't care less.

01:02:40.000 And if you decide that you identify as a woman, you want to be a woman, I'm 100% in support of that.

01:02:45.000 I couldn't imagine what it's like to be that person and have these feelings and have them rejected by society.

01:02:51.000 I'm fully in sympathy and support of it.

01:02:54.000 Real sports uses one five-second thing of me saying, first of all, it's not a woman. 0.99

01:03:01.000 It's not.

01:03:02.000 She has a Y chromosome.

01:03:03.000 I mean, I will call her a woman, but when science finds her body a thousand years from now, they're going to go, oh, that was a man.

01:03:10.000 When it comes to combat sports, when it comes to social interaction, when it comes to culture, when it comes to how you treat people, I'm fully in support of transgenders.

01:03:20.000 But...

01:03:21.000 As a person who's a professional mixed martial arts commentator and who's lived my entire life training in martial arts, I'm very aware of the distinct advantages of the male frame.

01:03:31.000 It's just that simple.

01:03:32.000 There's a reason why we don't let men fight women. 1.00

01:03:36.000 She didn't disclose the fact that she used to be a man.

01:03:39.000 Anyway, real sports takes five seconds of that and throws it out there.

01:03:43.000 That's the difference between a podcast and a television show.

01:03:46.000 In a television show, that five seconds becomes a three-hour discussion where you go over all the aspects of The emotional, the damage that you must get being a child wanting to be a woman and being a man and all the different realities of what makes you a person and whether it's learned experience or whether it's genetics or all these subtle variations and trying to put yourself into that mindset. 0.98

01:04:12.000 There's so much to be said on so many different subjects, but when you're on a fucking television show, you don't get a chance.

01:04:18.000 When you're doing one of those seven-minute things on Red Eye on Fox, And it's like, what's your take on global warming? 0.95

01:04:24.000 Real?

01:04:24.000 Not real?

01:04:25.000 Cenk?

01:04:25.000 And you're like, well, the statistics say, who's making the statistics?

01:04:29.000 We'll be right back with commercials.

01:04:31.000 You're not getting to talk about things enough.

01:04:36.000 There's too much information.

01:04:38.000 There's too many subtle variations in thought that need to be sort of explored when you delve into any sort of subject.

01:04:46.000 And I think that...

01:04:48.000 When we're talking about this whole right-left paradigm and this whole team Democrat thing that you faced when you were on MSNBC or the team Republican that Sean Hannity is a part of, that sort of embodies the whole problem with television that really doesn't exist in the same form on the internet.

01:05:08.000 You're going to have people that agree and disagree on the internet, but In a format like this, you get to really cover a subject and really sort of let down your guard and explore all the variables that TV doesn't let you do.

01:05:23.000 Look, I miss our radio show so much because me, Ben, and Jill Pike at the time, we'd come in and we'd do a three-hour show and we'd just have the time of our lives.

01:05:33.000 How come you can't do that now?

01:05:35.000 Well, it's because every format is different, right?

01:05:38.000 And so our show is built for being online video.

01:05:42.000 So I've got to squeeze in as many topics as I can into the two hours that we do.

01:05:49.000 So we can clip them up and put them up on YouTube.

01:05:52.000 But I'm not going to do...

01:05:55.000 I'm going to do them justice, right?

01:05:57.000 So I'm going to take as long as I need, but not a second more.

01:06:00.000 So I've done like 17-minute explanations of a topic because it needed 17 minutes, right?

01:06:07.000 It might be the NSA, you know, wiretapping, whatever.

01:06:10.000 But I needed to explain that and I explained it.

01:06:13.000 So I'm not rushing through anything.

01:06:15.000 But at the same time, I can't have a conversation like this because this is great for a podcast.

01:06:20.000 That's why your podcast does well.

01:06:22.000 It does great.

01:06:24.000 But if you put this up on YouTube, people are going to be like, wow, three hours.

01:06:29.000 But we do put it on YouTube.

01:06:30.000 Well, I hear you.

01:06:31.000 We just started recently.

01:06:32.000 Like, what, a year ago?

01:06:33.000 About a year ago?

01:06:34.000 Yeah.

01:06:35.000 So it's just a different format, and I've done all those different formats, but I miss the radio days.

01:06:39.000 Like, we'd walk in in a t-shirt.

01:06:42.000 Like, you didn't have to worry about your forehead, you know.

01:06:45.000 Shiny.

01:06:45.000 Shining.

01:06:46.000 Did they powder you up for the Young Turks? 0.74

01:06:48.000 I powder myself up, yeah.

01:06:50.000 In the beginning, I remember when I was in Miami, I always thought the signal for success was if you got makeup.

01:06:59.000 You knew you made it if you were getting makeup.

01:07:01.000 Oh, that's great.

01:07:02.000 Yeah.

01:07:03.000 But then when I was on TV, I hated makeup because it felt like it was a symbol of the fakeness of television.

01:07:09.000 Right, right, right.

01:07:10.000 Like they cake it on you and then you feel like one of these like- Shepard Smith- Yeah, if you feel like you're in the Capitol, you know, in Hunger Games, like, you know, they put on this makeup and you go out there and you entertain the masses, whatever.

01:07:25.000 I don't know.

01:07:26.000 So now I just put on my own.

01:07:27.000 I figured out, this is a hilarious conversation, but what foundation works best for me?

01:07:33.000 And so like five minutes before the show, I'll go in the bathroom and I'll put it on and it's not caked on.

01:07:40.000 It's just so that my forehead doesn't shine. 1.00

01:07:43.000 Yeah, I shine like a motherfucker. 0.99

01:07:45.000 But I do also during the UFC, they tried to, well, they don't now, but they tried in the early days to powder me up. 0.98

01:07:52.000 You know, the other guys that I work with get powdered up.

01:07:55.000 They put the makeup on you. 1.00

01:07:56.000 I'm like, behind me, people are going to get kicked in the fucking face. 1.00

01:08:00.000 Their head's going to swell up like the elephant man. 1.00

01:08:03.000 And you're worried if my skin is shiny? 1.00

01:08:05.000 There's no way I'm letting you touch me with that shit. 1.00

01:08:07.000 We're going to fight. 1.00

01:08:08.000 If you try to fucking powder me up, we're going to have a real problem. 1.00

01:08:11.000 Because this is ridiculous. 1.00

01:08:12.000 This is what I look like. 1.00

01:08:13.000 All this shit, if I have a zit, I have a zit. 1.00

01:08:16.000 It's what I look like. 1.00

01:08:18.000 My problem is that if you don't put at least something to take the shine off, it looks like I'm sweating like a maniac.

01:08:25.000 I'm not, but it looks like it.

01:08:26.000 Right, right, right.

01:08:27.000 Well, you have good skin.

01:08:28.000 You're oily.

01:08:29.000 Yeah, I'm Mediterranean.

01:08:30.000 It's healthy.

01:08:30.000 Yeah.

01:08:31.000 So once I was super late for an interview I was going to do with some guy who's the rhino hunter or whatever, and I jump in the seat.

01:08:40.000 I didn't do the foundation.

01:08:42.000 And he's conservative, and he's a hunter, right?

01:08:45.000 Right.

01:08:45.000 Is this the guy who won that?

01:08:47.000 Yeah.

01:08:47.000 Oh, wow.

01:08:48.000 Yeah, the guy that was going to kill the endangered rhino.

01:08:51.000 Whoa.

01:08:51.000 Right.

01:08:52.000 So then I come out of the interview and people were like, oh, yeah, I see that guy.

01:08:57.000 That guy scared you, right?

01:08:58.000 That's why you were sweating like that.

01:09:00.000 Oh, that's hilarious.

01:09:02.000 That guy scared you?

01:09:03.000 Yeah, I'm like, first of all, we agreed on like 90% of stuff.

01:09:06.000 I don't know what you're talking about.

01:09:07.000 But that's the perception that people get.

01:09:09.000 So that's why I don't want to seem like I'm sweating like a maniac.

01:09:12.000 That's the only thing.

01:09:13.000 They want that perception.

01:09:14.000 They want that.

01:09:15.000 They look for that.

01:09:16.000 They look for, oh, he was scared.

01:09:18.000 He was scared.

01:09:18.000 They formed that opinion before you even sat down to talk to them.

01:09:21.000 Yeah, I was scared of what?

01:09:22.000 The guy's going to come hunt me down from Texas?

01:09:25.000 Because you don't agree with him.

01:09:26.000 Yeah.

01:09:26.000 That guy's hunting the whole country then, if that's the case.

01:09:29.000 I mean, he's going to hunt a hundred million people that are angry at him for wanting to shoot that rhino.

01:09:33.000 Yeah, that rhino story was a very fascinating story because if you talk to the conservation people, they'll say that rhino...

01:09:39.000 We're good to go.

01:10:00.000 Well, we were talking about it with Louis Theroux.

01:10:02.000 You know Louis Theroux, the documentarian from England?

01:10:07.000 Fascinating guy.

01:10:08.000 And he's done some amazing documentaries, and one of his best ones was on these African hunts. 0.73

01:10:13.000 And in Africa, these wild animals that used to be on the verge of extinction are now...

01:10:20.000 Like, in the greatest populations we've seen in years.

01:10:23.000 Like, they're really healthy populations, but they're all in these high-fence hunting areas.

01:10:28.000 So their populations are great, but people get to pay to kill them.

01:10:32.000 So it's like, whoa, that is humanity in a nutshell right there.

01:10:38.000 That's society, culture, and just the weird, contradictory nature of the whole thing, where it's not very black and white.

01:10:45.000 There's a lot of weirdness going on there.

01:10:47.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:10:48.000 I think we get carried away with the conservation mentality.

01:10:51.000 Here's what I mean by that.

01:10:52.000 Of course we need conservation, but then they'll be like, okay, well, that rhino is an older rhino, so he will attack the younger rhinos, so it's actually better to kill him so he doesn't do that.

01:11:02.000 But I'm like, wait a minute.

01:11:03.000 If we're trying to preserve how they actually live, that's what older rhinos do. 1.00

01:11:06.000 They attack the younger rhinos.

01:11:08.000 They didn't make that up.

01:11:09.000 That's in their DNA. Yeah.

01:11:10.000 The problem is there's not enough rhinos to support that.

01:11:12.000 The issue becomes when you have a large quantity of rhinos, that's fine.

01:11:18.000 That's natural.

01:11:19.000 It's normal.

01:11:19.000 But when you have a small herd, that could really do some serious damage.

01:11:24.000 Right.

01:11:24.000 So that's why it's so complicated.

01:11:27.000 Then how do you resolve that? 0.99

01:11:29.000 Do you let people kill them?

01:11:30.000 But if you do, your whole point was conservation. 0.97

01:11:32.000 Why are you letting people execute them?

01:11:35.000 But on the other hand, if you don't, then maybe you cost yourself three younger rhinos, and that's a real problem.

01:11:40.000 So the problem is humans.

01:11:44.000 We've taken over everything.

01:11:46.000 We're the virus, right?

01:11:47.000 And so since we've taken over everything, we've got all these little things in artificial cages.

01:11:52.000 It might be a small cage in a zoo, or it might be a large cage in one of those preserves in Africa.

01:11:57.000 But in essence, we've killed what, quote-unquote, naturally happened.

01:12:00.000 Well, we've become the stewards of nature itself.

01:12:04.000 And we've decided that, I mean, at this point that I've been talking about a lot lately about zoos, about how terrible it is for the genetics of all these animals, for them to be isolated.

01:12:14.000 The idea is that you're preserving these animals, you can come see in them.

01:12:17.000 Oh, we've let these pandas breed.

01:12:19.000 Well, you know, here's the reality.

01:12:21.000 Pandas are supposed to breed, if they can, if they don't get eaten by tigers. 0.99

01:12:24.000 Because there's supposed to be tigers around the pandas, or whatever the fuck their natural predator is. 0.84

01:12:28.000 And there's supposed to be jaguars around the monkeys, and there's supposed to be lions around the giraffes. 0.96

01:12:34.000 I mean, that's just what happens in nature. 0.97

01:12:36.000 And when we have them all segregated in these apartments, and we slide food in a tray underneath the door, like, what the fuck are we doing here? 0.96

01:12:46.000 We're anti-nature here. 0.93

01:12:48.000 This is everything against...

01:12:50.000 I mean, these things are surviving, period.

01:12:52.000 No matter what, they're surviving.

01:12:53.000 Right.

01:12:54.000 We're not trying to preserve nature.

01:12:55.000 We're trying to preserve a time frozen, you know, like nature frozen in time at that time, right?

01:13:02.000 So this is what we're used to.

01:13:04.000 We like the giraffes like this, we like the pandas like that, and we'd like to preserve it.

01:13:08.000 But in reality, nature is not in the conservation business.

01:13:12.000 No.

01:13:12.000 It's in the struggle business.

01:13:14.000 Right.

01:13:15.000 And so oftentimes things will go extinct because that's what happened because the tigers ate all the pandas.

01:13:22.000 Sad day.

01:13:23.000 And what'll happen is the panda will then breed with a koala or whatever, to speak incredibly ignorantly.

01:13:29.000 And then you'll get a new species.

01:13:31.000 But that's what's awesome about nature.

01:13:33.000 Because you don't know what's going to happen.

01:13:36.000 There'll be destruction.

01:13:37.000 There'll be creation.

01:13:38.000 But we have short-circuited that.

01:13:41.000 So there is no good answer. 1.00

01:13:42.000 The answer isn't, fuck them, let them all die. 1.00

01:13:45.000 That's not the answer. 1.00

01:13:46.000 And the answer isn't, let's stop all progress and all creation right now.

01:13:50.000 And try to preserve it as it is today.

01:13:52.000 That's not the answer either.

01:13:54.000 So I don't know what the answer is. 0.97

01:13:55.000 Well, the answer is also that human beings are a part of nature and that our nature is to fuck with things. 0.97

01:14:01.000 And that is nature. 0.95

01:14:02.000 And it's a very strange thing for us to think about in that way.

01:14:05.000 But all human behavior, everything from computers to pollution to communication through cell phones, all that stuff is natural.

01:14:15.000 It's just natural with human beings.

01:14:18.000 And it's a very strange...

01:14:19.000 Just as natural as a macaw making weird noises and...

01:14:23.000 That's natural too. 1.00

01:14:24.000 It's just as natural for you to send a dick pic through your fucking cell phone. 1.00

01:14:28.000 These are natural things. 1.00

01:14:29.000 It's so complex and so outside of the norm for every other multi-celled species on the planet that we don't like to think of it as natural.

01:14:38.000 We think of it as human created.

01:14:39.000 But everything human created is just as natural as a beehive.

01:14:43.000 Just as natural as an anthill.

01:14:45.000 Those are natural as well.

01:14:46.000 I never thought about it that way, but you're right. 0.99

01:14:48.000 There's nothing more natural than a dick pic. 0.98

01:14:52.000 No, but literally. 1.00

01:14:54.000 We have larger penises than other primates do because that's part of how we attract women. 1.00

01:15:01.000 We swing our dick around. 1.00

01:15:03.000 So that's us swinging our dick around over the internet and saying, hey, anybody interested? 1.00

01:15:09.000 There's also a direct correlation between the amount of promiscuous females and the size of the male penis. 1.00

01:15:15.000 So there's all these slutty women with a goddamn problem. 1.00

01:15:18.000 That's why dick pics exist. 1.00

01:15:20.000 It gets better. 0.99

01:15:22.000 So my favorite thing is discussing the genetic reasons for the male anatomy.

01:15:27.000 And female anatomy. 1.00

01:15:29.000 So our penis is designed both like a shovel and as a vacuum. 0.99

01:15:34.000 And the reason for that is that there is intervaginal sperm competition. 1.00

01:15:39.000 So within the vagina, there is an expectation that several different men in the same rough time period have ejaculated. 0.98

01:15:50.000 So our penis is designed to get our semen in and the other guy's semen out. 1.00

01:15:57.000 So that's why our penis is designed like a shovel, to shovel out the other guy's semen. 1.00

01:16:02.000 And like a suction, so it takes all of the semen that it finds in the vagina before it entered and suctions it back out. 1.00

01:16:09.000 So if you think women are monogamous, our DNA would tell you otherwise.

01:16:16.000 Yeah, in small groups, they're not very monogamous at all.

01:16:19.000 That is an interesting thing, that the head is designed in that way to plunge out, sort of as a plunger. 0.91

01:16:24.000 And the size of the testicles are in direct correlation to the amount of promiscuous females that are around. 1.00

01:16:31.000 With men and tribes that have larger testicles, usually the women are more promiscuous. 1.00

01:16:35.000 That's why chimpanzees have large testicles, but gorillas, small testicles and small penises. 1.00

01:16:41.000 Gorillas have a one inch penis. 1.00

01:16:43.000 Tiny little penis that falls out all the time. 1.00

01:16:45.000 You ever watched Gorillas Mate? 1.00

01:16:46.000 I have.

01:16:47.000 When you watch Gorilla's Mate, they have a hard time keeping it in there.

01:16:50.000 There's not a lot of length to work with.

01:16:53.000 It's because they have complete total control over the females that are around them. 0.94

01:16:56.000 They have a whole harem. 0.98

01:16:57.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:16:58.000 Who needs a large penis when, you know, if you've got any male competition, you can just crush their skull. 1.00

01:17:03.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:17:04.000 My friend Kevin has a little dick, and he always admits to it. 1.00

01:17:07.000 And he jokes around about it. 1.00

01:17:09.000 He goes, hey, man, it feels good for me.

01:17:10.000 I don't care.

01:17:13.000 Sort of how the gorilla feels. 0.98

01:17:15.000 Yeah, so we have large balls. 0.97

01:17:17.000 And that means, of course, that males are also not monogamous. 0.97

01:17:20.000 And so we live in our own little preserve where we're in monogamous relationships for a lifetime, which is clearly not natural.

01:17:29.000 And I had a guy who does porn on the show last week.

01:17:34.000 His name is Dave Pounder, and he wrote a book about it.

01:17:36.000 Is that his real name?

01:17:37.000 Of course not.

01:17:38.000 He said when he was getting into the porn business, his two choices were Dave Pounder and Dave Impaler.

01:17:44.000 And he thought, eh, Pounder's a little better than Impaler.

01:17:53.000 I think?

01:18:13.000 Do you see what I'm saying?

01:18:14.000 You can act monogamous, but you're not monogamous in your mind.

01:18:16.000 You're not monogamous in your nature. 0.99

01:18:18.000 So when you don't admit that to your wife or your girlfriend, you're just like a gay guy in the closet. 0.99

01:18:23.000 You don't admit what your true nature is. 0.99

01:18:25.000 Right.

01:18:25.000 That's a very fascinating way of putting it.

01:18:27.000 There's a good friend of mine.

01:18:28.000 It's Dr. Chris Ryan.

01:18:29.000 He has a...

01:18:30.000 I don't want to call him doctor.

01:18:31.000 I call him doctor.

01:18:31.000 He's a PhD.

01:18:32.000 Yeah, no, no.

01:18:32.000 Chris Ryan.

01:18:33.000 I've had him on the show. 0.99

01:18:33.000 Sex and Dog. 0.99

01:18:34.000 Yeah, we do a podcast together once a month.

01:18:36.000 Oh, you do?

01:18:36.000 Oh, that's awesome.

01:18:38.000 Duncan Trussell and myself, we do this.

01:18:40.000 We don't have a name for it.

01:18:42.000 We call it the shrimp parade sometimes.

01:18:44.000 Sometimes it's called old men in snow because that's what Chris used to think about to keep himself from orgasming. 0.94

01:18:50.000 He used to think about old Eastern block men walking painfully in the snow, and that would keep him from having an orgasm while he was having sex. 0.96

01:18:58.000 Okay, I'm now going to tell you something I've never told anybody and that I shouldn't tell you.

01:19:01.000 But I think that's partly the point of the Joe Rogan podcast.

01:19:04.000 Okay, so you've got to come up with something, right?

01:19:08.000 Yeah.

01:19:08.000 So I used to think about football, but I'd get really conflicted.

01:19:11.000 I'd always think about the Chargers, right?

01:19:13.000 Because I really liked the Chargers back then.

01:19:14.000 But then I'm thinking about dudes, and then I was like...

01:19:18.000 And I'm like, I gotta get this out of my head.

01:19:20.000 Okay, but it worked, because then I wouldn't come.

01:19:22.000 Yeah.

01:19:23.000 So that's partly how you know you're straight.

01:19:26.000 It's also like, it's a fine line. 0.98

01:19:28.000 You don't want to think it's about something too fucked up where you start to lose your boner, and then you're like, oh no. 0.99

01:19:34.000 Exactly! 0.99

01:19:35.000 So you've got all these crazy things going on in your head, but yes.

01:19:38.000 Yeah.

01:19:39.000 So Chris Ryan had this conversation where we were on the podcast.

01:19:44.000 He was talking to someone.

01:19:45.000 Someone was saying, well, look, I'm monogamous.

01:19:47.000 And the guy was like, okay.

01:19:48.000 Or Chris was like, okay, you're monogamous. 1.00

01:19:50.000 Do you jerk off to porn? 1.00

01:19:52.000 And the guy said, yes. 1.00

01:19:53.000 He goes, well, then you're not monogamous. 1.00

01:19:54.000 Unless you're jerking off to porn only of your wife, you're not monogamous. 0.99

01:19:58.000 You're just monogamous in your actions. 1.00

01:20:00.000 Your mind, your fantasies are of these other women.

01:20:04.000 It's undeniable.

01:20:05.000 It's human nature.

01:20:06.000 It's a part of being a primate. 0.99

01:20:08.000 Even if it's not your wife, does anybody jerk off to the same picture or video in porn to the same woman every time? 1.00

01:20:16.000 There's got to be a guy. 0.99

01:20:17.000 I mean, yeah, there's probably one or a couple of guys, but I kind of feel bad for them.

01:20:23.000 Dude, it's a fantasy. 0.97

01:20:24.000 Go nuts. 0.98

01:20:25.000 There's three billion women out there. 1.00

01:20:27.000 It's part of having an imagination, buddy.

01:20:29.000 Explore it.

01:20:30.000 Yeah, it's a very fascinating topic because with Chris Ryan's book, Sex at Dawn, he goes into what sort of explores What started out as these tribes of small people,

01:20:46.000 you know, or small groups of 50, 150 people that are all living together and, you know, exchanging sexual partners, it was very commonplace.

01:20:54.000 And as agriculture gets established and as these populations grow larger and larger, it becomes weirder and weirder and then it stops.

01:21:01.000 And then we start realizing that our sperm creates that kid and that kid's my kid and I don't want anybody else near my wife who made my kid. 0.88

01:21:08.000 And then male paternity line gets established and then You know, the dominance of the breed and real weird stuff with human beings when it comes to sexuality and monogamy.

01:21:19.000 But fascinating, too.

01:21:21.000 And, you know, it's more evidence of how contradictory our nature is and how strange we really are.

01:21:27.000 Yeah, being human is trippy.

01:21:29.000 I mean, like, we're these animals, right?

01:21:31.000 That's what we are.

01:21:32.000 We're animals and we have a certain programming, you know.

01:21:35.000 Our DNA is like we're a computer with a program, but we're also like... 0.96

01:21:40.000 Animals like we want to fuck, we want to sometimes rip somebody's head off, and we have all these urges and we have these passions, but yet we're conscious of it all. 0.93

01:21:50.000 So we can step back and see the animal that we are and the robot that we are. 0.99

01:21:56.000 And that's really mind-bending.

01:21:58.000 Yeah, it is mind-bending because it's unique to the actual life on this planet.

01:22:05.000 There's only one At all the animals on the planet, there might be other animals that are conscious, like dolphins and orcas, they might communicate with each other, they might have family groups and dialects and all that, but they don't alter their environment the way we do.

01:22:20.000 So we're conscious, we're aware, we communicate, we alter our environment, and we keep records.

01:22:25.000 You know, I don't know how much dolphins know about their great-great-great-grandfathers.

01:22:30.000 But we know a shitload.

01:22:32.000 And we'll quote Pythagoras, or we'll talk about Homer, and we'll discuss people that lived a thousand years ago as if we know exactly what they were like.

01:22:45.000 And that is very uniquely human.

01:22:47.000 So we sort of chart how retarded we used to be in comparison to how retarded we currently are and see this progress. 0.95

01:22:55.000 Yeah, and our nature is oftentimes very much at war with itself, and it's a hell of a balance to pull off.

01:23:02.000 So, yes, we're polygamists.

01:23:04.000 There's no question about that.

01:23:05.000 The flip side of that is, then why does almost every celebrity, and finally we lost George Clooney, so I can now, I think, say every celebrity, still get married?

01:23:14.000 Because if we were just polygamists, I think?

01:23:37.000 And then you've got our competitive nature and our nature where we cooperate, right?

01:23:44.000 And everybody makes the mistake of going on one side or another.

01:23:47.000 Like, there'll be a group that thinks, no, people are competitive.

01:23:50.000 They want to, you know, and you're crazy if you think that they're ever going to cooperate.

01:23:55.000 And then there's the guys who are like, hey, no, people hold their hands together and sing kumbaya.

01:23:59.000 And normally there'd be no war and all that stuff.

01:24:03.000 No, neither side is true.

01:24:06.000 No, we're sometimes incredibly competitive and want to rip each other's heads off, and sometimes we're incredibly cooperative, and we work together to create great things.

01:24:14.000 It's a balance.

01:24:15.000 So look, in a lot of ways, it's awesome, because if the world was black and white, it'd be too easy.

01:24:23.000 Yeah, I agree 100%.

01:24:24.000 And I think that that conflict is sort of what fuels thinking.

01:24:30.000 I think that's the yin and yang of life.

01:24:34.000 You almost need conflict to sort of motivate you to work things out, motivate you to improve, motivate you to evolve and to change and to grow and to take into consideration all these different facets of life itself.

01:24:49.000 And I think that we all want everything to be this perfect goal.

01:24:53.000 You know, golden age of, you know, love and sharing and compassion. 0.96

01:24:58.000 But in order to really truly appreciate that, you kind of have to have some shit around too to compare it to. 0.91

01:25:05.000 It's almost like people that grow up rich, they'll never understand how beautiful it is to have enough money to not worry about money. 0.97

01:25:13.000 So true.

01:25:14.000 Yeah, it's like if you grow up in a family where...

01:25:19.000 Everyone's being driven around in limousines and there's money everywhere and you have servants.

01:25:24.000 It's got to be incredibly difficult to understand a true struggle.

01:25:28.000 Whereas if you grow up like you or like, I don't know what your childhood was like, but my childhood was very poor.

01:25:33.000 I appreciate every dollar I have.

01:25:35.000 I appreciate the freedom that it gives me in that I don't have to worry about money.

01:25:40.000 Because that weight of constantly worrying about your bills is one of the worst things that people have.

01:25:46.000 I cut a lot of people a lot of slack that do fucked up things for money that are broke.

01:25:51.000 Because I remember what it was like to feel that weight.

01:25:55.000 Like, God, I don't know how I'm going to pay my bills this month.

01:25:57.000 I don't know what next month's going to be.

01:25:59.000 What if I get sick?

01:26:00.000 I don't have health insurance.

01:26:01.000 I can't afford health insurance.

01:26:03.000 This happens.

01:26:04.000 What if that happens?

01:26:05.000 How do I take care of that?

01:26:06.000 How am I ever going to stop?

01:26:08.000 Where's my golden years going to come from?

01:26:10.000 Where's the retirement? 0.99

01:26:11.000 There's no fucking retirement for a lot of people. 0.99

01:26:13.000 It's a joke. 0.97

01:26:14.000 This idea that you're going to get to one point where you're going to settle down and everything's going to be great.

01:26:19.000 You work hard to the end of the day.

01:26:21.000 And the end of the day, it's Miller time.

01:26:23.000 And they look at life like there's a Miller time for life. 0.99

01:26:25.000 There's no fucking Miller time, man. 0.99

01:26:27.000 It's not happening. 0.98

01:26:28.000 You're going to get to a certain point and then you're going to go, now what?

01:26:31.000 And then your heart's going to stop.

01:26:32.000 Yeah.

01:26:34.000 So, there's a million things to say about that, but first, you should coin that. 0.92

01:26:39.000 There is no fucking Miller time. 0.97

01:26:42.000 There's no Miller time for life. 0.99

01:26:43.000 Right.

01:26:45.000 I remember when I was a struggling talk show host on the radio, and I remember looking at a Snapple for like five straight minutes, but I mean like literally five minutes, and it was a dollar, and I'm like, I could just have water with my breakfast.

01:27:00.000 I don't need that Snapple because God, I really want that Snapple.

01:27:03.000 And I always remember that.

01:27:05.000 Like, a dollar meant extra enjoyment that day for me, and so I value it.

01:27:12.000 So that leads to an ironic conclusion.

01:27:16.000 I actually feel bad for people who grew up rich.

01:27:19.000 Like, that's kind of a funny thing to say.

01:27:22.000 Like, Russell Simmons is always talking about, oh, you should meditate and don't worry about money.

01:27:27.000 I'm like, yeah, Russell, but you got $300 million.

01:27:30.000 Yeah.

01:27:31.000 It's easy to say don't worry about money when you have $300 million, right?

01:27:35.000 It's harder for a person who's trying to pay their rent and figuring out where they're going to get food for their kids and stuff like that.

01:27:42.000 And I know that.

01:27:43.000 I know that feeling of being super stressed out about not having money and the effects of that.

01:27:49.000 But when you get a little bit, it feels a thousand times better because if you grew up rich, It's not your fault.

01:27:59.000 You just take it for granted because you never had any other contacts.

01:28:04.000 You have no idea how phenomenal it is to fly first class or business class or to get driven around in limos.

01:28:11.000 You take it as, well, that's normal.

01:28:13.000 So you can only go down.

01:28:14.000 If you lose that stuff, oh, then you're like, Oh my god!

01:28:18.000 My world has exploded!

01:28:19.000 How could anyone live like this?

01:28:22.000 But it's hard to go up.

01:28:24.000 And it's hard to have that context.

01:28:26.000 Look, I think I'm the luckiest guy a lot because I grew up middle class.

01:28:29.000 So I had enough that I can get an education and I didn't have to sell drugs. 0.87

01:28:35.000 I didn't have to do any crazy shit to get money. 0.90

01:28:38.000 So my dad provided that for me. 0.52

01:28:41.000 But I grew up middle class enough that I value money and I And it means the world's...

01:28:48.000 So anybody who says that money isn't important doesn't know what they're talking about. 0.98

01:28:53.000 Hasn't been poor enough to understand that yes, money's fucking important. 0.95

01:28:57.000 I totally agree with you about being unfortunate if you grow up rich. 0.98

01:29:02.000 I really do.

01:29:03.000 I think that especially if you grow up rich with ignorant parents and parents that don't sort of explain to you in great detail how fortunate you are to be in a situation and the importance of I'm appreciating the struggle but I have this weird relationship with money and it's gotten weirder and weirder over the last few years where it's gonna sound really crazy and it sounds crazy even to me but I objectively look at humans and I look at what

01:29:33.000 we're doing and I look at this sort of system that we set up and we think it's just this is the way people operate you exchange money for goods and this is our society is based on money and it's all about trying to earn money But I look at it and I go, well, that's just a creation.

01:29:48.000 That's just a man-made creation.

01:29:50.000 And what else is going on?

01:29:51.000 Well, what else is going on is there's this slow but inevitable sort of dissolving of the boundaries between human beings and information.

01:30:03.000 And whether that information is the secrets about the NSA or that information is, you know, things that are on the internet, emails, photographs...

01:30:14.000 There's the the trend is To have ultimate access to all information for everyone.

01:30:24.000 And I think that we're going to come to a bottleneck.

01:30:26.000 And the bottleneck is going to be that what is money exactly?

01:30:30.000 Well, at this point in time, it's just ones and zeros.

01:30:33.000 It's just information.

01:30:34.000 Money now is broken down to we don't have a gold standard anymore.

01:30:38.000 Our money is based entirely on information.

01:30:40.000 It's information in a database somewhere.

01:30:42.000 Well, there's going to be a point in time where we have to decide as a civilization That the only way to continue to move forward with our innovation, to continue to move forward with technology, we're going to have to dissolve the boundary between human beings and the information that is money.

01:30:59.000 Money is not going to be worth anything anymore.

01:31:01.000 We're going to have to come up with some new way in order to transfer wealth or to determine wealth or to determine reward for effort or for whatever you're doing.

01:31:14.000 Because if If we're just basing it on what we're basing it on now, it's inevitable that it comes to this point where you're not going to be able to protect your money.

01:31:24.000 You're not going to be able to store it.

01:31:27.000 It's not going to be anywhere.

01:31:30.000 And if it's just ones and zeros, everyone's going to have access to it.

01:31:34.000 The distribution of it is going to get very weird.

01:31:37.000 So I'm trying to understand that.

01:31:38.000 So is the main problem there, you think, if you follow that to its natural conclusion, that it's going to get hacked?

01:31:44.000 No, I don't even think it's going to be...

01:31:45.000 I think we're calling it hacked now, but I think the trend seems to be to no secrets.

01:31:52.000 No secrets, complete transparency.

01:31:54.000 I think the ultimate hive mind state, you know, that is talked about in sort of Eastern mysticism that we're all one...

01:32:03.000 I think we are all one, and I think we're going to achieve that through technology.

01:32:06.000 And I think that's something that no one saw coming.

01:32:09.000 I think that the hive mind is going to come through something that this cellular mind invents.

01:32:15.000 And then there's going to be some sort of a connection between all the people all the time.

01:32:20.000 And we're experiencing that now by being able to access the database of human knowledge on your cell phone.

01:32:28.000 To be able to ask Siri what the answer to a question is, you know, ask Google, and boom, you get answers.

01:32:34.000 That's unprecedented in human history.

01:32:36.000 But that, to me, is just like...

01:32:39.000 That's like one of those old school-y photographs where they have to throw the cape over and everybody stands still for a minute and poof! 0.71

01:32:44.000 They press that button and the thing flashes and everybody has to stand still and then you get this weird black and white image which was magic in 1850 or whenever the fuck the camera was invented.

01:32:55.000 I think that that's this step that you've gotten to now where I have thousands of photos on my phone.

01:33:04.000 Thousands!

01:33:05.000 And I take them instantly.

01:33:06.000 I can press a button, it goes grrrr, and it'll take a series of pictures in a row. 1.00

01:33:11.000 That's madness in comparison to that big stupid cape. 0.92

01:33:15.000 Well, I think that the access to information that we enjoy today, by being able to Google search something, by being able to go to your phone and find the information, It's going to get closer than that. 0.99

01:33:27.000 It's going to be something where it's a chip that you put in your body and it interfaces with your mind.

01:33:33.000 There's going to be something, whether it's nanotechnology, whatever it is, they're going to continue to innovate, they're going to continue to expand on technology, and the trend is that there is no boundary at one point, at this zero point, there's going to be no boundary between human beings and information.

01:33:51.000 And money is just information.

01:33:52.000 It's all it is.

01:33:54.000 It's information on a database somewhere.

01:33:56.000 There's going to be a bottleneck where we have to decide how we manage that database, how we manage the access to that information.

01:34:04.000 Because if the ultimate trend of this technology is to erode all these boundaries and to have us all communicating in sync, You're not going to be able to have anything restricted.

01:34:17.000 You're not going to have anything that is outside of the access to everyone.

01:34:22.000 And money is that thing.

01:34:23.000 So we're going to come to a point in time where we're going to have to evolve as a culture, as a race, as a species.

01:34:29.000 And part of that evolution is to restructure our ideas of wealth.

01:34:33.000 Restructure our ideals of the distribution of wealth, what it means to have wealth.

01:34:38.000 What we're talking about now I grew up poor, you know, you grew up middle class, and now I appreciate money and you appreciate money.

01:34:46.000 That ain't gonna even be an issue a thousand years from now, because it'll have been dissolved by technology.

01:34:54.000 First of all, fascinating, and I like your vision of, like, I don't know if you're neo there in melting the matrix, okay, but it's...

01:35:10.000 So money is a tool, right?

01:35:13.000 And so in your ultimate vision, I don't know how that tool is then applied.

01:35:17.000 So in our current society, we make this huge mistake of thinking that it's the end.

01:35:22.000 But it's not the end goal.

01:35:23.000 It's only a tool.

01:35:24.000 If you think it's the end goal, you're going to make yourself miserable.

01:35:27.000 Right.

01:35:27.000 Because then there's never enough of it.

01:35:29.000 And the point of the money was to make you happy.

01:35:32.000 But if you've replaced happiness with the end goal of money, there's no winning that fight.

01:35:37.000 Right?

01:35:37.000 So it would be really interesting to see how that paradigm would be in your transcendental world.

01:35:46.000 And there's this great, fascinating circle there because...

01:35:52.000 Everybody being one is something that I largely believe in as well.

01:35:57.000 And it's what almost everybody that thinks it through once they get past religion gets to.

01:36:04.000 So whether it's the Taoist that you're referring to in Eastern philosophy, it's the transcendentalist here in the US, the Ralph Waldo Emerson's, Henry David Thoreau's.

01:36:16.000 It's the Sufis in Muslim tradition.

01:36:19.000 They all come to the same conclusion.

01:36:21.000 We're all one.

01:36:22.000 It's not necessarily a God above us.

01:36:24.000 It's that we're all united in some way that we can't tell in the physical space that we're in.

01:36:30.000 In the physical space that we're in, we all seem divided.

01:36:33.000 Like, you're right there and I'm right here.

01:36:34.000 But if you break it down on a cellular level, you realize that that's actually not necessarily the case because everything is not stable.

01:36:45.000 It revolves.

01:36:47.000 And so the difference between the air and my hand is not nearly as distinct as we think it is.

01:36:53.000 But what would be interesting is if the oldest...

01:36:56.000 You know, philosophy we have, the Daoist philosophy of everyone being one and united at some point, met with the future where everything is united in its zeros and ones, and zero is non-existence and one is existence, and we are all one,

01:37:12.000 right?

01:37:13.000 In the vision that you have.

01:37:15.000 And I think that you might be right.

01:37:17.000 But that's really hard for our minds to grasp.

01:37:20.000 Like, then what happens to money?

01:37:21.000 What happens to individualism?

01:37:23.000 What happens to all those things that are so important to us now?

01:37:26.000 And how is that part of our nature now but is not necessarily part of our eternal nature?

01:37:31.000 So those answers I don't know.

01:37:34.000 I think that everything works to ultimately become more and more complex.

01:37:42.000 Our society becomes more and more complex.

01:37:44.000 Our technology becomes more and more complex.

01:37:46.000 Our language, our understanding of each other becomes more and more complex.

01:37:50.000 And when I look at what human beings used to be and what we are now, and then I just take myself out of the situation that I've become so accustomed to, you know, modern life in 2014 with, you know, the language being noises that come out of your mouth and typing on a keyboard.

01:38:07.000 And I sort of extrapolate.

01:38:09.000 Like, where is this going to go?

01:38:11.000 Where is it ultimately going to go?

01:38:12.000 That's where I came up with this idea of the money bottleneck.

01:38:16.000 Because I really think that money is ultimately...

01:38:19.000 Just that.

01:38:20.000 It's just information.

01:38:21.000 And our idea that we have to exchange money in the way that we do now in order to stay alive, that's not true because there was times and there's cultures right now where they don't have money.

01:38:31.000 They have a barter system.

01:38:32.000 You know, there's people that...

01:38:33.000 You ever watch that show Life Below Zero?

01:38:35.000 Nope.

01:38:36.000 It's a show on...

01:38:38.000 I want to say Discovery Channel.

01:38:39.000 But it's these people living in Alaska.

01:38:43.000 They all live above the Arctic Circle.

01:38:44.000 And a great deal of them don't use money.

01:38:48.000 They just barter.

01:38:49.000 They give each other caribou, and this guy has a belt for your snowmobile, and they exchange like this.

01:38:58.000 Quite fascinating.

01:38:59.000 And very, very friendly, happy, healthy people, at least how they're portrayed on the show.

01:39:03.000 And it gives you this kind of thought process of like, well, what is money?

01:39:07.000 What is money?

01:39:08.000 These people, they don't really buy things.

01:39:11.000 Everything they get is from fishing or from hunting and then using that fit.

01:39:16.000 You're like, I'll give you this, you give me that.

01:39:19.000 But I might disagree with you on this one because to me that sounds miserable.

01:39:24.000 Like, I want to go grab a burger.

01:39:26.000 Have you ever had Popeye's fried chicken?

01:39:29.000 And so, look, in small communities that can work, and of course that's the essence of money is barter, trade.

01:39:35.000 I do this, I do a talk show, and I get paid a certain amount of money for that, and then I exchange it for burgers and rent and all that stuff, right?

01:39:44.000 So I think money is a good tool, as long as you realize what it is.

01:39:48.000 It just makes things more efficient in a larger society.

01:39:52.000 So I don't want to go back to living like Eskimos. 1.00

01:39:54.000 Nor do I. But I think when I'm looking at the complexity, I view these people that are living in this sort of a barter situation as a step along the way.

01:40:05.000 And money simplified the entire process of exchanging goods and it simplified everything.

01:40:10.000 Well, let's just agree upon coins that equal this and we'll have a bank of these things. 0.98

01:40:16.000 But then somewhere along the line, that bank became a fucking hard drive somewhere. 0.96

01:40:21.000 And that gold is like, where's Fort Knox? 0.99

01:40:23.000 Does it even fucking exist anymore? 0.97

01:40:25.000 What's in there? 0.98

01:40:26.000 It was under WT7, man. 0.97

01:40:27.000 You fucking open up a door and you see this empty room, like dust on the ground. 1.00

01:40:32.000 You're like, what the fuck? 1.00

01:40:33.000 Where's the gold? 0.99

01:40:34.000 Yeah, it was under WT7, right?

01:40:36.000 Okay, and by the way, I'm joking.

01:40:37.000 Everybody calm down.

01:40:38.000 Well, he knows.

01:40:39.000 He knows things.

01:40:41.000 I think that what we have established today is functional.

01:40:47.000 It works.

01:40:48.000 It's great in a certain sense.

01:40:50.000 It is good to be able to use a credit card and buy a television if you need a television. 0.85

01:40:54.000 You don't want to have to fucking figure out how many trees you have to chop down in order to give a guy to get a television back. 0.82

01:41:00.000 It's a way simpler process. 0.96

01:41:02.000 But this is just a step along the way, and this process is not going to maintain.

01:41:08.000 It's not going to stay the way it is now.

01:41:10.000 This is not the way it was in the Roman days, and it's not the way it was even 100 years ago when we were on the gold standard.

01:41:16.000 It's going to change.

01:41:17.000 So, okay, on that note, I've talked to, like, I don't know, countless financial experts on the show, because Whether it was part of the TV show or the online show, I mean, over the course of the last 12 years that I've been doing The Young Turks, I've talked to guys who've written books about the Fed,

01:41:34.000 guys who are in the Fed, just everybody.

01:41:36.000 First of all, let me just state, no one knows what the Fed is.

01:41:40.000 Right.

01:41:41.000 Like, you get me the top financial expert on the Fed, I will break him down in a matter of maximum six questions, okay, to the point where he will say, oh...

01:41:52.000 Yeah, no, I don't really know how that works.

01:41:57.000 No one knows.

01:41:59.000 They know as much as I do.

01:42:01.000 They know, okay, all right, this is what the Fed kind of roughly does, but where's the money?

01:42:05.000 Who prints it?

01:42:07.000 And then once it's printed, why do they give it to the banks?

01:42:09.000 Why does it have to be given to the banks?

01:42:11.000 Why can't it be given to the American people?

01:42:15.000 Who controls the Fed? 0.71

01:42:16.000 I mean, look, some of those things have simple answers, but when you start going deeper down into that Rabbit hole? 1.00

01:42:23.000 No.

01:42:24.000 Like, no one knows.

01:42:25.000 And it's really scary.

01:42:26.000 And by the way, it is almost...

01:42:29.000 In my mind, it's indisputable that we will have a massive global meltdown, economic meltdown.

01:42:37.000 Indisputable.

01:42:37.000 Like, I think...

01:42:38.000 I don't know if it's a year and a half from now.

01:42:41.000 I don't know.

01:42:41.000 Jesus, maybe they keep it together for 12 years, 15 years.

01:42:44.000 But at some point...

01:42:46.000 This whole thing will melt down because it's just one giant pyramid scheme. 1.00

01:42:50.000 Yeah, it's built on a foundation of unfixable bullshit. 1.00

01:42:53.000 That's how I describe it. 1.00

01:42:54.000 It's just...

01:42:54.000 Yeah, there's that plus the system.

01:42:56.000 It's like, you know, earlier we're talking about why do we have the politicians that we do?

01:42:59.000 Why do we have the media that we do?

01:43:00.000 It's all based on the system that you build.

01:43:02.000 Why do we have the humans that we do?

01:43:04.000 It's in our DNA. That's what was programmed into us.

01:43:07.000 And we have programmed our politics to be fucked up. 0.99

01:43:10.000 We program politics to be... 0.99

01:43:12.000 politicians need money to get elected so they will do the bidding of the people who give them money.

01:43:18.000 Now, why do we build it that way? 0.98

01:43:20.000 That's ridiculous. 1.00

01:43:21.000 That's so stupid that they're never going to represent you. 1.00

01:43:23.000 They're going to represent the people who give them the money. 1.00

01:43:25.000 Like, we should fix the system.

01:43:26.000 That's what I want to do.

01:43:27.000 That's why I set up a super PAC called WolfPAC.

01:43:30.000 To basically obliterate all the other super PACs, right? 0.99

01:43:33.000 Because as long as there's money in politics, we're fucked. 1.00

01:43:35.000 They will never represent us. 0.99

01:43:37.000 That's not how the machine is built.

01:43:39.000 The machine is built to represent the donors.

01:43:41.000 Ninety-five percent of the time, the person with more money wins, right?

01:43:44.000 In corporations, and this is what leads to the global economic meltdown, as soon as a corporation is born, it's like Oedipus. 0.99

01:43:52.000 It wants to kill its dad, capitalism, and fuck its mom, democracy. 0.99

01:43:56.000 And because it doesn't want the free market. 1.00

01:44:00.000 A corporation wants a monopoly.

01:44:02.000 It wants ultimate growth.

01:44:03.000 It wants maximum expansion and wants to destroy everything in its path.

01:44:09.000 And I don't mean like in some like environmental way or they'll destroy things.

01:44:12.000 I mean, no, no, like destroy the competition so that there's no one left so they make money easier, right?

01:44:18.000 And okay, I get that and I understand the need for corporations.

01:44:21.000 But you've got to rewrite one line of code there.

01:44:26.000 You can't let public corporations...

01:44:31.000 Run amok the way that we have.

01:44:32.000 Here's what I mean.

01:44:33.000 Just a little bit more specific.

01:44:35.000 If you're a public corporation and you're an executive of that public corporation, you don't even care what happens to that corporation.

01:44:43.000 All you care about is your short-term benefit as long as you're an executive in that corporation.

01:44:48.000 So you will do whatever it takes to make short-term money, including, especially if you're at a bank, a public bank, Take as much risk as humanly possible, because more risk equals more short-term reward.

01:45:02.000 That system is built to explode.

01:45:05.000 You will eventually take so much risk that the bank will collapse.

01:45:10.000 It happened in 2008, and they were barely able to piece it back together.

01:45:14.000 The next time that they want to do maximum risk, maximum risk, if you're a gambler, I'm a gambler, if you gamble, you know you take maximum risk for long enough, It's a fact.

01:45:25.000 It's a certainty that you will lose all of your money.

01:45:28.000 That's what they're going to do.

01:45:29.000 Because there's a wrong line of code in there where the executives of the public corporations don't care about the public corporations.

01:45:37.000 They don't care about the American democracy, the American people, etc.

01:45:41.000 And then we let them buy our politicians. 0.97

01:45:46.000 Yeah, the representative democracy that we exist in right now, too, I think it's a terribly flawed system, and I don't think you need to represent people that can speak for themselves.

01:45:56.000 It seems to be that what we used to need and the way it used to be established was back when communication was incredibly difficult.

01:46:04.000 You couldn't just vote online.

01:46:06.000 You couldn't just talk online.

01:46:08.000 You couldn't just answer questions or Express your opinions on things.

01:46:13.000 But now you can.

01:46:14.000 And so to have this antiquated system representing us.

01:46:17.000 And then the fact that this transparency that we're seeing evolve before our eyes change rapidly on a day-to-day basis.

01:46:25.000 I mean, there's new revelations that come, like the NSA spying thing.

01:46:30.000 Like, within a year, the whole world's attitude about email and transactions and doing things online completely changed.

01:46:40.000 Within a year, everyone assumes that everything that you put online, whether it's an email you send to a friend, whether it's a text message that you receive from a lover, all those things are public.

01:46:51.000 All those things, if not public now, very well may be public one day and at the very least are accessible by the government who may or may not use that to intimidate and or manipulate you.

01:47:04.000 So we've changed the way we think and then ultimately intimidate and or manipulate them.

01:47:10.000 Because just like technology, when technology first enters into the human arena, it becomes a tool of the wealthy and the privileged.

01:47:20.000 Like cell phones. 0.98

01:47:21.000 When you go to the old rapper videos, you see rappers with those giant, big, stupid brick cell phones. 1.00

01:47:26.000 They were letting you know that they are wealthy and privileged. 0.99

01:47:28.000 That's part of the whole rap culture. 1.00

01:47:30.000 But now, you can go to South America in the jungle and you'll see someone with a fucking iPhone. 0.99

01:47:35.000 I mean, it spreads. 0.99

01:47:37.000 And I think that that technology...

01:47:39.000 Is the spreading of that technology just indicative of this constant ripple effect of progress, of technological progress, rather?

01:47:49.000 And that this is ultimately going to happen with transparency as well.

01:47:53.000 What the government has the ability to do now...

01:48:05.000 I don't.

01:48:06.000 I definitely don't.

01:48:08.000 I don't know why you would say that, because I don't.

01:48:10.000 I don't know why that came up, because I definitely don't.

01:48:14.000 It's just an example.

01:48:16.000 Let's dig into this guy's life.

01:48:18.000 We're going to be able to dig into their lives, too.

01:48:20.000 It's just right now, we can't.

01:48:22.000 But we will be able to.

01:48:23.000 Everyone will be able to dig into everything everybody else has.

01:48:26.000 Okay, now that you're going down that road, I realize that...

01:48:31.000 And I just came upon this as you were talking because you were making a really interesting point.

01:48:36.000 It's not just that we can go into their lives.

01:48:38.000 It's that going into our lives is going to be a really valuable asset for them for a limited window, right? 0.99

01:48:45.000 Until we all realize how fucked up we all are. 0.99

01:48:48.000 Yes. 1.00

01:48:48.000 Right? 1.00

01:48:49.000 So they'll be able to go into it and say, ha ha, gay porn, ha ha, this, that. 0.98

01:48:52.000 And then eventually they'll be like, wait a minute. 0.96

01:48:54.000 Everybody's ha-ha this or ha-ha that.

01:48:56.000 Yes. 1.00

01:48:57.000 So then who gives a shit? 1.00

01:48:58.000 All right, fuck it. 1.00

01:48:59.000 Exactly. 1.00

01:48:59.000 I think that's a very important point. 1.00

01:49:01.000 And that, you know, Anna Kasparian had that exact same point.

01:49:05.000 We were on the podcast and we were sort of talking about transparency. 0.97

01:49:08.000 We were saying that at a certain point in time, everybody's going to look at everybody else's bullshit and it's not going to matter anymore because it's going to go away. 0.99

01:49:16.000 The same way, you know, during the Victorian era, they had fucking... 0.99

01:49:20.000 They were putting dresses over the legs of tables because they were... 0.99

01:49:23.000 Freaked out that people were going to be sexually aroused by table legs.

01:49:27.000 Oh, I didn't know that. 0.73

01:49:28.000 That's true.

01:49:28.000 Oh, yeah.

01:49:29.000 That's awesome.

01:49:29.000 They used to do it with piano legs.

01:49:31.000 I mean, they were fucking crazy. 0.99

01:49:32.000 They thought people were going to get sexually aroused by the legs of chairs. 0.99

01:49:36.000 But, I mean, on the other hand, have you seen piano legs? 0.91

01:49:38.000 Pretty hot.

01:49:39.000 Depends.

01:49:40.000 If you're alone during the Victorian era, everybody smelled.

01:49:42.000 Piano legs are probably a healthy alternative.

01:49:45.000 Same with Muslims now. 1.00

01:49:47.000 Sure.

01:49:48.000 Oh, my God. 1.00

01:49:49.000 If you see someone's ankle, well, obviously, you're going to want to fuck that ankle. 0.99

01:49:53.000 I'm not sure how obvious that is, but if you cover everybody up, you know? 0.99

01:49:57.000 Isn't that crazy that we live in a world, it's 2014, we're talking about technology and how it's going to change the world and full transparency, and we've got a significant percentage of the world walking around with curtains on their heads.

01:50:11.000 Fascinating.

01:50:12.000 And not only that, doing it on television, like you watch them on television.

01:50:15.000 You can see it transmitted through this incredible medium, this technology.

01:50:21.000 The internet and video is displaying these people that are wearing these crazy medieval outfits or pre-medieval.

01:50:30.000 It's hard to imagine that in 2014 we live in a world where you have Google search and women aren't allowed to drive. 1.00

01:50:38.000 And they're not supposed to learn.

01:50:39.000 There's a significant population that thinks that women shouldn't read. 1.00

01:50:44.000 They shouldn't be allowed to go to school.

01:50:46.000 Well, look, anything that wants to hold on to the past is going to fight education tooth and nail.

01:50:50.000 It's going to fight knowledge tooth and nail.

01:50:52.000 That's why the very first chapter of the Bible is, don't eat from the tree of knowledge.

01:50:57.000 That is the biggest sin you could ever...

01:50:59.000 In fact, we got expelled from heaven because we ate from the tree of knowledge.

01:51:03.000 That's what Adam and Eve did.

01:51:05.000 So if you've got your old way of doing things and it ain't right, well, the first thing you want people to make sure they don't do is find out what is right.

01:51:13.000 Yeah.

01:51:14.000 Right?

01:51:14.000 So they block your attempt to get knowledge.

01:51:16.000 But to your point, Joe, they're fucked. 1.00

01:51:19.000 I mean, knowledge is flooding in like a tsunami and they can't stop it. 1.00

01:51:24.000 You can't stop it.

01:51:25.000 There's no way to stop it.

01:51:26.000 And I think ultimately that knowledge will transcend just simply being able to Google things and read things.

01:51:35.000 And it'll be some sort of, and scientists have speculated about this, not just a knucklehead like me, but scientists have speculated that what we're going to deal with in the probably near future, within the next hundred years, is instant access to information directly through some sort of a neural interface.

01:51:53.000 Yeah.

01:52:08.000 In a sense, I mean, there's a lot of people that they look at the utopian version of a modern technologically advanced society, like becoming, you know, this singularity is near type thing where we're going to reach some sort of a beautiful place because of technology.

01:52:26.000 I think, if any way, that is the way.

01:52:30.000 The way is not going to be necessarily through artificial intelligence, but through an artificial interface of intelligence, where we create something that allows us to instantly access each other.

01:52:40.000 And we truly dive into this, like joining a fucking World of Warcraft server, but the World of Warcraft server, instead of running around playing a game, we're going to be thinking in each other's minds.

01:52:53.000 Well, if that day comes, the first time that you go into other people's heads, there's going to be an initial period of time, five minutes, five days, five weeks, whatever it is, where you will run into darkness before you see the light. 0.65

01:53:07.000 Sure. 0.97

01:53:08.000 You're going to be like, oh my God, that dude is thinking the most fucked up things. 0.99

01:53:13.000 No, no, no. 0.99

01:53:15.000 He went there!

01:53:16.000 He went there! 1.00

01:53:16.000 Holy shit, right? 1.00

01:53:18.000 And then you're going to move on to the next mind, and you're going to think the same thing, and the next mind, and you're going to be amazed at the darkness of humanity, right? 0.99

01:53:26.000 But then eventually you'll realize, oh, we all think that, but then we also think all these wonderful things, and then it's like, you don't necessarily mean bad by it, right?

01:53:35.000 And then you'll get to the light of...

01:53:44.000 Well, or it will just be the first steps to the next level that gets, like, the next...

01:53:58.000 Generation of human beings that grows up with that technology.

01:54:01.000 Like, I look at my kids now, and I look at the Internet, and I'm like, wow, what a weird world it is that these little children, they're growing up with no access or no knowledge of what it was like to exist in a world where there was no Internet.

01:54:15.000 Well, I think that the people that first experience this mind-meld technology, where we all read each other's minds, To them, it would be this crazy alien concept, but they're going to have to somehow or another reconcile it with the biological existence that we were born into and grew up with, and then all of a sudden, boom,

01:54:30.000 connected to each other.

01:54:31.000 But the people that those people give birth to, they will grow up in a world where everyone reads everyone's mind from the jump, and that's when things will get really fucking weird, and that's when I think the money thing will become the bottleneck.

01:54:45.000 So...

01:54:47.000 Joe, you and I are at this point so old that...

01:54:51.000 We'll be dead before it happens.

01:54:52.000 Well, sure. 1.00

01:54:53.000 Or they'll come up with some new shit that gets you to... 0.99

01:54:56.000 I mean, they've already figured out a way to use young blood to rejuvenate mice. 0.97

01:55:02.000 Have you seen that article?

01:55:05.000 Oh, my God.

01:55:05.000 It's essentially a vampire strategy.

01:55:08.000 They're injecting young blood into mice, and they're finding that it reverses the aging process.

01:55:14.000 Yeah, so, look, all that's going to happen.

01:55:17.000 I love when America debates like, is this ethical and moral to do X, Y, or Z? Like, whatever you're debating, China's already in the middle of doing it. 0.88

01:55:24.000 Yeah, right. 1.00

01:55:25.000 Okay, like, they don't give a shit. 0.99

01:55:26.000 You know the story of Yao Ming? 0.99

01:55:28.000 Yes.

01:55:29.000 The Chinese government took the tallest male basketball player and female basketball player and had them get married, and that's Yao Ming's parents.

01:55:38.000 Yeah.

01:55:38.000 So, like, you think the Chinese aren't going to do it?

01:55:41.000 Yeah, they created a guy.

01:55:43.000 Right.

01:55:43.000 So there are certain DNA you can have to give you super strength.

01:55:48.000 There's like a German baby born a couple of years ago that's like huge muscular kid.

01:55:53.000 Myostatin inhibitors.

01:55:54.000 Myostatin inhibitors are what regulate the growth of muscles and he's born without them.

01:55:59.000 So he does not have an inhibition to keep his muscles grown within a certain size.

01:56:04.000 They exist in Whippets, which is a dog and exists as a genetic anomaly that just happens because of probably overbreeding.

01:56:12.000 And also in cows, occasionally in cows.

01:56:15.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:56:15.000 Have you seen it?

01:56:16.000 Yeah, I've seen the cows, too.

01:56:17.000 Crazy.

01:56:18.000 You think that they're not trying that in labs in China right now?

01:56:22.000 Oh, yeah.

01:56:22.000 They are.

01:56:23.000 They are.

01:56:23.000 And you think they're not going to succeed?

01:56:26.000 They are.

01:56:27.000 They are going to succeed.

01:56:27.000 Yeah.

01:56:28.000 And then we will have the superhuman race, and then we'll have us.

01:56:32.000 Yep.

01:56:32.000 Okay?

01:56:33.000 And then shit gets really real. 1.00

01:56:35.000 Yeah, they're going to fuck us. 1.00

01:56:36.000 They're going to hold us down and they're going to fuck us. 1.00

01:56:38.000 This China thing, or this, excuse me, this mice thing is quite fascinating. 0.99

01:56:43.000 And the way to, there's an, you can just Google it.

01:56:47.000 Just look, there's an article on CNN Health, young blood makes old mice more youthful.

01:56:52.000 But they've essentially found out that when they take the blood of young mice, it rejuvenates brain and muscle tissue in older mice. 0.99

01:57:02.000 Which is a fucking vampire strategy. 0.98

01:57:04.000 I mean, it's really crazy, but that is what we're going... 0.99

01:57:08.000 This is step one.

01:57:09.000 And step one is ultimately going to lead to step 1000, which is going to be immortality.

01:57:15.000 So what I was saying is that we're old enough that we remember a time when there was no internet.

01:57:20.000 When I try to explain that to younger people, they have a hard time grasping what that means.

01:57:25.000 That we had to actually go to a library, try to look up a book that had knowledge on that topic...

01:57:31.000 Read the book. 0.98

01:57:32.000 That seems like the Victorian legs that people wanted to have sex with to them. 0.91

01:57:36.000 I mean, that seems like it's 2,000 years before Jesus. 0.97

01:57:41.000 That's crazy to them.

01:57:43.000 That was in our lifetime.

01:57:44.000 And so we're naturally inclined to believe that change isn't going to happen, that things are going to always be the way they are today, right?

01:57:54.000 That's natural human instinct.

01:57:57.000 But that is indisputably not true.

01:57:59.000 So we've got a lot more change ahead of us, and it might change things in ways that are so revolutionary it's hard to comprehend.

01:58:08.000 I think it is hard to comprehend.

01:58:10.000 I think we are the caterpillar that gives birth to the butterfly.

01:58:12.000 We just don't realize it.

01:58:13.000 We're going to become something that we don't even see coming.

01:58:17.000 We have, right now, people who walk around...

01:58:19.000 So you're super optimistic.

01:58:22.000 You think we're going to get to be butterflies.

01:58:23.000 Well, I'm optimistic, period.

01:58:25.000 I'm a pretty optimistic person.

01:58:26.000 I see negativity, and I see positivity, and I feel like you could dwell on the negativity.

01:58:32.000 But you could also dwell on the positivity.

01:58:35.000 I'm aware of all the negativity.

01:58:36.000 I'm aware of all the terrible behavior that human beings exhibit.

01:58:40.000 I'm aware of crime.

01:58:41.000 I'm aware of violence.

01:58:42.000 But I'm also aware of beauty, and I'm also aware of information being passed in a way that's never been...

01:58:51.000 I talked to kids today. 0.99

01:58:52.000 I talked to 20-year-old kids today, and they're smart as fuck. 1.00

01:58:55.000 And I remember how stupid I was when I was 20. And I was like, this kid's way... 1.00

01:58:58.000 I tell that to my 17-year-old all the time.

01:59:00.000 I'm like, you are so much smarter than I was when I was your age.

01:59:03.000 You have access to so much more information.

01:59:06.000 You're...

01:59:07.000 The conversations that you're having are so much different than the conversations I was having.

01:59:11.000 This is a different world we're living in.

01:59:13.000 And just enjoy it.

01:59:15.000 Just take action in exploring your own interests and following your passions and soak up as much of this information as you possibly can.

01:59:25.000 Enjoy it.

01:59:25.000 Take it all in.

01:59:26.000 Don't look at it as a chore.

01:59:28.000 It's a curiosity.

01:59:29.000 It's amazing.

01:59:30.000 So I don't know...

01:59:32.000 How anybody could look at it in a negative way.

01:59:34.000 I see all the negatives.

01:59:35.000 I see the pollution.

01:59:36.000 I see the destruction of the environment.

01:59:38.000 I see all the potential global catastrophes left and right, both environmental and natural. 1.00

01:59:43.000 I see all that shit. 1.00

01:59:45.000 But I also see this crazy fucking monkey that knows how to fix things and knows how to make videos fly through space. 1.00

01:59:52.000 I think that crazy monkey is going to come up with some new shit and going to continue to. 1.00

01:59:57.000 Okay. 1.00

01:59:57.000 I 100% agree with you. 1.00

02:00:00.000 It's funny because if you watch our show, the news is so bad so often that it's hard not to be pessimistic.

02:00:07.000 And I think things are actually going to get worse before they get better, right?

02:00:10.000 So we're going to have the economic meltdown.

02:00:12.000 We're going to be a dark, dark caterpillar for a while before we turn in the butterfly.

02:00:16.000 But long term, I'm super optimistic.

02:00:18.000 So one of the things that I loved, I think it was BBC, put together this time chart where they showed life expectancy over the last 200 years.

02:00:28.000 And you just see it go, whew, take off, right?

02:00:31.000 Like...

02:00:32.000 We're also the species that went from living to the average age of 30 or whatever it was to now 70-something.

02:00:41.000 I don't remember the exact numbers, but it's amazing, and we only did it in 200 years.

02:00:46.000 Life got so much better.

02:00:49.000 Sometimes they'll ask the question, time travel.

02:00:51.000 Would you go forward?

02:00:52.000 Would you go backward? 1.00

02:00:53.000 I'm like, you're nuts if you go backwards. 1.00

02:00:56.000 Are you crazy? 1.00

02:00:56.000 You think, oh my god, Jane Austen time. 1.00

02:01:00.000 No, no, no.

02:01:00.000 You're going to go there.

02:01:01.000 There's going to be no air conditioning. 1.00

02:01:02.000 Okay, you're fucked. 1.00

02:01:04.000 You can't travel. 1.00

02:01:05.000 No toothpaste.

02:01:05.000 Yeah, you want to go to London?

02:01:08.000 Yeah, it will take a couple of months out of your life, right?

02:01:10.000 And you're lucky if you don't die on the way.

02:01:12.000 No, don't travel backwards!

02:01:13.000 It's a terrible idea!

02:01:15.000 So things have gotten much, much better as we have also deteriorated things.

02:01:19.000 And so I think...

02:01:21.000 There'll be a collision that is bad, but then we'll get into the light. 0.99

02:01:26.000 Because we're ingenious little fuckers. 0.98

02:01:29.000 And we're going to figure it out. 0.99

02:01:30.000 I agree, but we might not be us anymore.

02:01:32.000 That's the real problem.

02:01:33.000 The real problem is clinging to this biological idea of what a person is.

02:01:37.000 I was looking at a guy who was being interviewed, and he had been attacked by a shark.

02:01:41.000 And he had a carbon fiber arm and a carbon fiber leg.

02:01:44.000 And he could articulate his fingers, and he was standing there with no crutches, no anything.

02:01:50.000 He was wearing shorts on, and so from his knee down was this artificial leg, and it worked on an artificial hinge.

02:01:56.000 And he could walk around with no limp.

02:01:58.000 I mean, it was amazing.

02:01:59.000 It was perfectly measured to the size of his body.

02:02:01.000 And I'm looking at this guy, and this guy's happy to have this artificial hand, this artificial leg.

02:02:06.000 And I'm like, okay, what if it's two legs and two hands?

02:02:10.000 What if it's a whole body?

02:02:11.000 What if you're paralyzed, but they say, okay, you're paralyzed, but we can take your brain and we can put it in this artificial body and you can move around. 0.99

02:02:19.000 You're like, fuck yeah, give me an artificial body. 0.99

02:02:21.000 Well, you know, you won't be able to have sex anymore, but yeah, I understand, but I'll still be able to enjoy almost everything else that other people do. 1.00

02:02:27.000 Yes, you will.

02:02:28.000 Boom, you're in an artificial body.

02:02:29.000 Well, they say, well, look, we've got a problem.

02:02:31.000 Your brain is developing Alzheimer's, but here's the good news.

02:02:34.000 We can take your brain and we can download all the contents of it into this artificial brain And you can essentially live forever in this artificial body.

02:02:42.000 Whoa. 1.00

02:02:43.000 Now what the fuck are you then? 0.99

02:02:45.000 When you become a program that's inside something that a human being created. 1.00

02:02:49.000 Didn't Johnny Depp just make that movie?

02:02:51.000 I didn't see it. 1.00

02:02:52.000 It looked like a piece of shit. 1.00

02:02:53.000 It did. 1.00

02:02:54.000 But two robots that are already on their way to doing your vision to some degree.

02:03:00.000 I saw they were just demonstrating to Chuck Hagel like two weeks ago some defense department, the department within the Pentagon that creates everything, like the microwave, all that stuff, the internet.

02:03:12.000 So that department, they've created the robots, and now you can control the robots from a distance.

02:03:18.000 So the controller does this, the robot does this, right?

02:03:22.000 And so they already exist.

02:03:24.000 It's just a matter of perfecting them, right?

02:03:26.000 And then whatever's in your head, the robot does.

02:03:31.000 Yeah.

02:03:34.000 Yeah.

02:03:57.000 There's gonna be trouble. 1.00

02:03:58.000 Yeah, if you have a robot of your wife's sister that you keep in a box somewhere, and your wife's like, my fucking sister? 0.99

02:04:03.000 You made a robot out of my sister? 1.00

02:04:05.000 It was an accident!

02:04:07.000 So that's going to happen too.

02:04:09.000 But that connects back to our initial conversation about nature and animals, right?

02:04:15.000 We're trying to preserve something that cannot be preserved because nature is bigger than that.

02:04:20.000 It's more uncontrollable than that, right?

02:04:22.000 But that's also true of us.

02:04:24.000 So we are going to evolve into something that is different than what we have now, and that's going to trip us out because we don't like change.

02:04:32.000 We won't even exist anymore.

02:04:34.000 It's not just that we will evolve into something that we don't like.

02:04:36.000 It's like we won't even be an option.

02:04:39.000 And I really truly believe that that scenario that I took, that I depicted about the guy with one arm and one leg, that's happy to have that artificial arm and artificial leg, that's going to happen with a body.

02:04:49.000 It's going to happen with a whole body.

02:04:51.000 They're going to have, they already developed an artificial skin in a test tube that they combined with spider web, spider silk, that's bulletproof. 0.99

02:05:00.000 They've used artificial skin cells, or skin cells that they have somehow or another, through some scientific process that a moron like me will never be able to truly describe, but they've been able to at least, in theory, develop this bulletproof fucking skin. 0.98

02:05:15.000 Who's not going to get bulletproof skin? 0.98

02:05:17.000 Not only that, what is skin... 0.98

02:05:19.000 I mean, you see these poor people, like, there's a fucking Vegas commercial that they're airing these days with Wayne Newton. 0.97

02:05:25.000 It's, you know, getting people excited about Vegas, and Wayne Newton has this rubber face, man. 1.00

02:05:32.000 This poor fucker. 0.99

02:05:33.000 His face is pulled back and it's shot up with Botox and fillers. 1.00

02:05:39.000 Someone needs to tell him, just be an older man. 1.00

02:05:41.000 It's way better than what you're doing.

02:05:43.000 What you're doing, you're terrifying to look at. 1.00

02:05:46.000 But we're going to be able to just replace your fucking skin. 1.00

02:05:49.000 Forget about all this stretching this and pulling that and injecting into that. 1.00

02:05:53.000 How about we just take all that stupid shit off and just like we can give you an artificial hand, we'll give you a whole fucking, a whole organ, a whole skin organ that can't get cancer and it's fucking bulletproof. 0.99

02:06:06.000 Okay, so people think, oh well that's unethical, we're not going to do that. 1.00

02:06:09.000 What does that mean?

02:06:10.000 Right.

02:06:12.000 Except when...

02:06:13.000 Again, I keep going back to China.

02:06:14.000 Nothing against the Chinese.

02:06:16.000 It's just they have an unscrupulous government at this point, right?

02:06:19.000 My wife's Chinese. 0.89

02:06:19.000 My kids are Chinese. 0.89

02:06:21.000 Okay, so...

02:06:21.000 There you go.

02:06:22.000 Okay, so when the Chinese start making super babies that are super strong, like we talked about, and they have the spider skin that's bulletproof, and then they start messing with the mind, and the kid's smarter than the average kid. 0.99

02:06:34.000 Now, what are you going to do? 0.99

02:06:35.000 You're going to have your kids be dumber than those kids? 1.00

02:06:37.000 You're going to make the... 1.00

02:06:39.000 Decision, no, no, no.

02:06:40.000 I don't want the super babies.

02:06:42.000 Now or then the super babies will be 1%, then they'll be 10%, and then they'll be 30%.

02:06:47.000 And when they're 70%, you're still going to be in that percentage saying, oh, no, no, it's okay.

02:06:51.000 I'm happy that the other kids are smarter, stronger, have bulletproof skin, but mine won't.

02:06:57.000 Maybe, but maybe not.

02:07:00.000 The much more likely scenario will be that we will be, or I say we, the people that choose to go the route of innovation and to accept what technology is capable of, the ways that it's capable of advancing the mind,

02:07:15.000 will treat everyone else the way we treat chimps.

02:07:18.000 They're not going to let them dominate the Earth. 1.00

02:07:21.000 They're going to confine them to zoos. 0.99

02:07:22.000 They're going to keep them locked up in certain places where they don't interfere with the new evolved race and species of people. 0.89

02:07:29.000 Yeah, I think one of the scientists said that they're worried about if aliens find our planet.

02:07:35.000 Stephen Hawkins.

02:07:36.000 I think that's right, Stephen Hawkins, right.

02:07:38.000 Incredibly likely that there's other life on other planets.

02:07:42.000 Statistically speaking, it would be crazy if there wasn't.

02:07:45.000 And if they get here, I mean, they could easily view us as we view the ants.

02:07:50.000 I mean, how much regard do we have for the well-being of ants?

02:07:54.000 We think, well, they're not that conscious. 0.99

02:07:56.000 Who gives a shit, right? 0.99

02:07:57.000 And we're not that conscious. 0.99

02:07:58.000 We're not that, you know, evolved.

02:08:01.000 And so the future us might feel the same way about us.

02:08:05.000 Yeah, unquestionably.

02:08:06.000 I mean, look at what we allow ourselves to do to intelligent species, like dolphins. 0.99

02:08:11.000 I mean, we don't give a fuck. 0.98

02:08:13.000 We know that dolphins are smart, but we don't know what they're saying. 0.99

02:08:15.000 So because we don't know what they're saying, we're like, um, here's the fish.

02:08:18.000 Do you want to flip?

02:08:19.000 If you flip, I'll give you the fish.

02:08:21.000 You want to leave.

02:08:22.000 Ooh, no, you can't leave.

02:08:22.000 You're in the tank.

02:08:23.000 This is where you live. 1.00

02:08:24.000 And we're happy, you know, taking our kids to SeaWorld and watching these fucking things jump through hoops. 0.99

02:08:29.000 No, we're both great species. 0.99

02:08:33.000 Like you said, we figured all this stuff out.

02:08:36.000 We figured out how to live longer.

02:08:38.000 We're also vicious.

02:08:40.000 We're a vicious species.

02:08:42.000 And don't give a damn about anybody else or anything else.

02:08:48.000 What happens when you amp that up?

02:08:50.000 Yeah, well, we're realizing that we're vicious, we're aware that we're vicious, but we've spent millions and millions of years developing in a world filled with lions and tigers and bears, oh my.

02:09:00.000 I mean, that's the world that we live in, that's the reality of the world, and that's what our DNA has developed in.

02:09:05.000 And then all of a sudden we reach this point, whether it's 100 years or 300 years ago, whatever it is, we've reached this point where we started being aware of how crazy it is, our dominance over the rest of the species on this planet, But it's a fairly recent thing.

02:09:18.000 I mean, we talked about on the podcast many times, I have this thing about wolves, kind of obsessed with wolves, and also obsessed with this romanticized vision of wolves that most people have.

02:09:28.000 And the reason why this Little Red Riding Hood, you know, the reason why I was the big bad wolf...

02:09:34.000 Wolves used to fucking eat people on a regular basis and in Paris in the 1400s there was an instance where wolves had killed 40 people in Paris. 0.77

02:09:45.000 So the people that lived in Paris had to band together to fight this pack of wolves that had invaded Paris. 0.99

02:09:53.000 During World War I, the Russians and the Germans made a truce so that they could kill wolves because they were in Russia and when Germany and the German troops and the Russian troops would go on patrol, they would get killed by wolves.

02:10:08.000 They ran into a super pack.

02:10:13.000 Yeah.

02:10:33.000 They had to make a trip.

02:10:34.000 This is the world!

02:10:35.000 This is the real world that we live in.

02:10:37.000 This is not a world where the wolves rescue the baby and bring it back to the doorstep and wink at the family and then run off into the woods to be with nature and chirp around with butterflies and chipmunks. 1.00

02:10:47.000 No, it's a fucking vicious, horrible world of predators and prey. 0.99

02:10:51.000 And that's the world that we developed in. 1.00

02:10:53.000 And so we still have these cruel instincts because of that.

02:10:56.000 And we still have this...

02:10:57.000 This ability to sort of block off our ideas that we apply to humans that we love and sort of alienate humans that we don't love.

02:11:07.000 Decide that this is the enemy.

02:11:09.000 Make these separations with humans. 0.96

02:11:11.000 So of course we do it with animals.

02:11:13.000 Of course we do it with dolphins.

02:11:15.000 Of course we do it with almost everything we get a chance to do.

02:11:18.000 So, I'm now even happier than I named my super pack Wolfpack.

02:11:22.000 Yeah, it's great. 1.00

02:11:23.000 Wolves are motherfuckers, man. 1.00

02:11:25.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:11:25.000 They're the smartest of all the predators because they're the only ones of the super predators that act as a group. 1.00

02:11:30.000 See, that's exactly why we called it Wolfpack.

02:11:33.000 Yeah, it's a good name.

02:11:34.000 So, like, everybody tells it's impossible to get a constitutional amendment to get money out of politics and all that stuff.

02:11:39.000 Oh, except that every generation of Americans has gotten an amendment except us, right?

02:11:44.000 So it's not impossible, right?

02:11:45.000 Women got the right to vote when they couldn't vote in the first place. 1.00

02:11:48.000 That was impossible, right?

02:11:50.000 This is doable.

02:11:51.000 But when people ask me, they're like, dude, PACs are named like fluffy things, like a better tomorrow tomorrow, stuff like that, Americans for America, you know that whole thing. 0.99

02:12:00.000 What the fuck? 0.98

02:12:01.000 You named it Wolf PAC, man? 1.00

02:12:03.000 Nobody, like...

02:12:04.000 Rich people are going to get discombobulated by that.

02:12:07.000 They're not going to want to give money to something called Wolfpack. 0.93

02:12:10.000 That sounds fucking dangerous, right?

02:12:12.000 I'm like, exactly. 0.97

02:12:13.000 Exactly.

02:12:14.000 We're not trying to get money from rich people.

02:12:16.000 We're trying to form a pack of a group that works together and that is super aggressive and that is not going to stop until we get this amendment. 0.61

02:12:26.000 And if you stand in our way, we are going to chew you up and we're going to drink your femur. 0.99

02:12:31.000 Okay? 0.99

02:12:33.000 So, sad day for you.

02:12:35.000 And look, and people get the message, man.

02:12:38.000 Whether you like it or not, we're coming.

02:12:40.000 We're in the woods and we're coming.

02:12:41.000 Well, much like the internet has given people the ability to access information in a way that was never possible before, I think that the internet is also going to give people the ability to express influence in a way that's never been available before.

02:12:57.000 And a group of 300 million people, when you say the 1% that they have more money than X amount of people put together, and you take the wealthy 1% in this country and you combine their wealth with how many people...

02:13:15.000 That's all well and good, but they compete against each other.

02:13:18.000 And if you can get 300 million people in this country to recognize what a fucking shell game it really truly is, and then say, look, there's only one way to stop this shell game.

02:13:30.000 You've got to remove money from politics, and you have to have politicians that act For the people, which is what initially the whole idea of a representative government was supposed to be about.

02:13:41.000 It was supposed to be about having people that represent the rest of us so that everything remains fair, that we're allowed to prosper without being pulled down by the weight of an oppressive government like we were in Europe.

02:13:54.000 It's the whole reason why people came to America in the first place. 0.99

02:13:57.000 So what's amazing is that in our efforts to reclaim democracy, because it just doesn't exist on a national level anymore, just one quick thing about that.

02:14:05.000 Princeton just did a research study.

02:14:07.000 They went back to, I think, 1981 and studied 1,800 policy positions.

02:14:12.000 And they looked at public opinion and elite opinion and lobbyist opinion.

02:14:17.000 Public opinion had no effect.

02:14:20.000 No effect on what our so-called representatives did at the national level.

02:14:24.000 It did not affect policy at all.

02:14:26.000 Elite opinion, lobbyists, donor opinion, complete correlation.

02:14:31.000 What they wanted is exactly the policy that we got.

02:14:35.000 So we lost the democracy at the national level, and people are super discouraged by that.

02:14:40.000 But what's interesting is that we have learned that it actually still exists at the state level.

02:14:45.000 And so we'll go into Maine, and in Maine, one of the state reps runs the cash register at her local grocery store.

02:14:53.000 She doesn't own the grocery store. 0.80

02:14:55.000 She's the cash register lady. 1.00

02:14:56.000 It took her $250 to win her seat.

02:14:59.000 And they have public financing in Maine.

02:15:01.000 So she got the $250 from that public financing thing.

02:15:05.000 And you know what she does? 1.00

02:15:06.000 She gives a shit about the people in her district. 0.99

02:15:09.000 She represents them because she sees them every day at the cash register when they're taking their cucumbers and their orange juice and stuff. 0.99

02:15:15.000 And so she doesn't want the kids poisoned in that area, so she tries to stop the pollution. 0.82

02:15:19.000 She also doesn't want business to leave because business hires her, right? 0.99

02:15:22.000 So she represents the people.

02:15:25.000 And when you find democracy, it's like, whoa, that's mind-bending.

02:15:30.000 That's amazing!

02:15:32.000 She represents us!

02:15:34.000 And so...

02:15:36.000 It's a beautiful thing we're trying to rebuild, right?

02:15:39.000 And it actually existed here, right?

02:15:41.000 It seems like, no, we never had democracy here, all the coups that we did and all the terrible things we did, yada yada.

02:15:47.000 But on the domestic level, Ralph Nader got Richard Nixon to set up the Environmental Protection Agency.

02:15:55.000 Is that amazing?

02:15:57.000 Like, right now, Ralph Nader couldn't get Ralph Nader to put on his shoes, right?

02:16:01.000 Like, he can't, he's...

02:16:02.000 No way! 0.99

02:16:03.000 That seems like crazy, and Richard Nixon was a badass motherfucker, right? 0.98

02:16:07.000 And he's like, as right-wing as it gets, and he's like, oh my god, I'm so sorry, Ralph. 0.98

02:16:11.000 I'm so gal do OSHA. I'll do EPA. I'll do seatbelts.

02:16:13.000 What do you need me to do?

02:16:15.000 That's how strong a populist movement was when we weren't swamped with money in politics.

02:16:20.000 And we can get back to that.

02:16:22.000 We didn't have a major banking collapse for 50 years.

02:16:26.000 Isn't that amazing?

02:16:28.000 For 50 years we didn't have a major banking collapse.

02:16:30.000 Why?

02:16:30.000 Because we actually had a democracy.

02:16:32.000 It all changed in 1976 and 1978. It was before Reagan.

02:16:37.000 The 76th Supreme Court said in Buckley v.

02:16:39.000 Vallejo, money is speech.

02:16:41.000 In 1978 in Baladi, they said, corporations are human beings and hence have First Amendment right to spend money in politics.

02:16:49.000 Downhill.

02:16:50.000 From that moment on, it was over.

02:16:52.000 And I talked to Nader, and I said, look, Raiders Nader's are running roughshod through the country, right?

02:16:57.000 You're the original Wolfpack, and you're bending Nixon to your will, and then you run into a brick wall.

02:17:03.000 I said, what happened?

02:17:05.000 He said it was 1978, funny enough, same year, right?

02:17:08.000 And Tony Coelho is what happened. 0.99

02:17:11.000 I said, who the fuck's Tony Coelho? 0.98

02:17:12.000 I didn't know him at the time. 0.99

02:17:13.000 He said he's a Democratic representative.

02:17:16.000 He's in the House.

02:17:18.000 Who went to the Democratic Party and said, oh, because of these new Supreme Court decisions, we can take corporate money too. 1.00

02:17:25.000 So, fuck it. 1.00

02:17:26.000 We can't compete with the Republicans because they're just taking corporate money. 1.00

02:17:30.000 Let's take corporate money too.

02:17:32.000 He said, from then on, we never had any progress.

02:17:34.000 Wow.

02:17:36.000 It's incredible that that doesn't get recognized, like the Supreme Court's recent decision.

02:17:41.000 Explain that decision for folks who don't understand what happened and how devastating it is.

02:17:45.000 So there's two recent decisions, Citizens United and McCutcher, right?

02:17:49.000 So Citizens United is universally recognized as the thing that killed our democracy, but it isn't.

02:17:55.000 It actually shot a dead horse. 0.95

02:17:56.000 It took this system that was already super fucked and just put it up on steroids. 0.99

02:18:03.000 I think we're good to go. 0.97

02:18:25.000 Like, Joe Rogan's running for Congress.

02:18:28.000 I'm not giving to Joe Rogan.

02:18:29.000 I'm giving to the Joe Rogan PAC. Okay?

02:18:31.000 Or friends of Joe Rogan PAC. And then they can spend a gazillion dollars supporting you.

02:18:37.000 Guy just in, I think it's in Montana, set up a PAC. Raised all this money, left the PAC, started running for Congress, and that PAC then just gave him all the money.

02:18:48.000 I mean, it's a joke. 0.99

02:18:49.000 It's a fucking joke, right? 0.98

02:18:50.000 It's just a way of giving you the money through one thin layer of legal loophole. 0.99

02:18:55.000 And then in McCutcheon, they said...

02:18:57.000 Yeah, you know, at least then you couldn't give unlimited money to the parties and there were still some rules. 1.00

02:19:02.000 Nah, fuck those rules. 1.00

02:19:03.000 Okay. 0.99

02:19:04.000 Now, the old limit was $123,000 that you could give in any one cycle, right?

02:19:10.000 Not through the super PACs, but the individual campaigns.

02:19:14.000 They're like, ah, 123,000 is too little.

02:19:18.000 So now you can give unlimited money to the political parties.

02:19:22.000 So there's no limits.

02:19:23.000 You can do an independent expenditure.

02:19:25.000 You can do a superpacking.

02:19:26.000 You can give to the politicians.

02:19:28.000 There's tiny little things left, but they're just a joke.

02:19:32.000 There are veneer left there to pretend that there are limits when, in fact, it's limitless auction.

02:19:38.000 We don't have a democracy anymore.

02:19:39.000 We have an open auction for our politicians. 0.95

02:19:41.000 It's so incredible that they're not accountable for that decision because that seems like such a fucking crazy thing to decide.

02:19:47.000 It seems like such a damaging, devastating blow to what this country was supposed to be in the first place.

02:19:54.000 I mean, it's amazing.

02:19:56.000 I wonder how they justify that.

02:19:58.000 Look, nobody ever wakes up in the morning.

02:20:01.000 I interviewed Larry King recently.

02:20:02.000 I went on his show and before that he came on my show.

02:20:05.000 And he said something I totally agree with.

02:20:07.000 Nobody ever wakes up in the morning and thinks that they're evil.

02:20:09.000 They think they're like the greatest person ever.

02:20:11.000 Like he said, you know, Hitler got up and he combed his hair and was thinking like, you're looking good, doing good, right? 0.75

02:20:18.000 Okay.

02:20:19.000 And so these guys have convinced themselves through a series of reading papers from American Enterprise Institute and Heritage Foundation, these think tanks, venerable think tanks, that they're doing the right thing.

02:20:31.000 Justice Roberts and Justice Kennedy say that giving unlimited money like this doesn't even lead to the appearance of corruption. 0.99

02:20:41.000 Fucking planet. 0.98

02:20:42.000 I mean, literally, there was a recent poll. 1.00

02:20:44.000 Ninety-six percent of Americans thinks that there's too much...

02:20:47.000 money has too much influence in politics.

02:20:50.000 They're in the Supreme Court's in the 4% who thinks, nope, nope, no, I don't see it.

02:20:54.000 It's incredible.

02:20:55.000 It's just an amazing thing to say, that they don't think that it creates corruption.

02:21:04.000 It's really an amazing thing to say.

02:21:06.000 What do you think is going on behind the scenes?

02:21:08.000 I mean, does someone sit down the way the MSNBC execs sit down with you?

02:21:13.000 I mean, is that really the same kind of a conversation?

02:21:16.000 No?

02:21:16.000 No.

02:21:16.000 Look, I think obviously those conversations happen from time to time, but usually it doesn't have to get to that conversation.

02:21:22.000 I think that the system creates the things that it wants.

02:21:26.000 In 1971, a guy named Lewis Powell writes a memo to the Chamber of Commerce and says, hey, corporations should basically go in and affect every part of our society.

02:21:37.000 We should spend a lot of money affecting education, affecting politics.

02:21:41.000 And affecting the Supreme Court.

02:21:43.000 Okay?

02:21:43.000 And Richard Nixon reads that, and as he's getting his ass handed to him by Ralph Nader, says, hmm, maybe there's a good long-term way of fighting back.

02:21:51.000 Takes Lewis Powell, who wrote that memo on behalf of the Chamber of Commerce, and puts him on the Supreme Court.

02:21:57.000 And then Powell is the one who's the deciding vote in Buckley v.

02:22:00.000 Vallejo and Bellotti that then spins us off into this nightmare that we're in now.

02:22:05.000 So it was simply Nixon getting money from businessmen.

02:22:09.000 Businessmen wanted Lewis Powell, who figured out how to For businessmen to take over the country, they wanted him on the Supreme Court.

02:22:17.000 Nixon does them that favor because that's where he gets his money.

02:22:20.000 It's just a self-repetuating system where, like Barack Obama, he thinks he's like a lovely guy, right?

02:22:26.000 He thinks he brought us change and he's, you know, oh, I got you 5% change. 0.99

02:22:30.000 You're still busting my ass over this. 1.00

02:22:32.000 What the fuck, right? 1.00

02:22:33.000 But in reality, what he doesn't know is that he loves the system. 0.99

02:22:39.000 This system made him President of the United States of America, the most powerful man on earth.

02:22:43.000 If he was a wrestler, his nickname would be the establishment, right?

02:22:47.000 So Obama does what is natural to him.

02:22:50.000 How has he gotten successful this whole time?

02:22:52.000 Take corporate donations, take donations from Goldman Sachs, and give a veneer of change so people are placated, and they keep the system going exactly as it is.

02:23:01.000 He thinks that's the right thing to do.

02:23:04.000 You know?

02:23:05.000 So, Justice Roberts worked for corporations before he was a judge, et cetera.

02:23:10.000 All these people, they grew up in an atmosphere and in a context, just like we were talking about with rich people.

02:23:15.000 It's the context you grew up in.

02:23:17.000 They always had money.

02:23:17.000 They didn't know.

02:23:18.000 These guys always grew up in a world where corporations were always right.

02:23:23.000 And if you argued with that, you're a villager.

02:23:25.000 You're a barbarian. 1.00

02:23:26.000 You're a simpleton. 1.00

02:23:27.000 You didn't understand. 0.99

02:23:28.000 You need corporations to run the world.

02:23:30.000 And you need...

02:23:31.000 If you're a sophisticated person, you would bow down to the Fed and the multinational corporations.

02:23:37.000 You're very unsophisticated if you don't realize that corporations are human beings and should be able to spend unlimited money in politics.

02:23:45.000 I mean, look at that.

02:23:46.000 That's the other thing, right?

02:23:47.000 They all think that corporations are human beings.

02:23:51.000 I mean, there's only three words to that. 1.00

02:23:53.000 What the fuck? 0.99

02:23:55.000 Yeah, the idea that you can do that and not address the diffusion of responsibility that comes when large groups act as a large group, the people inside that large group go, well, you know, I'm just a part of this company, you know, this business is business, and we're moving to Mexico. 1.00

02:24:12.000 Look, there's a woman that was part of an insurance company in California. 0.98

02:24:18.000 She was a high-level executive.

02:24:19.000 They raised the rates for one year 39% on individual insurance.

02:24:23.000 And she said, that's inhumane.

02:24:25.000 You can't do that.

02:24:25.000 People will lose their insurance and they'll die.

02:24:28.000 This was before Obamacare.

02:24:30.000 They said, oh, that's a really interesting opinion.

02:24:32.000 You're fired.

02:24:33.000 Okay, so the machine will replace anyone with a conscience.

02:24:38.000 She had a conscience, and she was immediately replaced with someone who does not have a conscience.

02:24:42.000 Because if they had a conscience, they'd be replaced.

02:24:45.000 So we, like the media, the people who are at the top levels of the media today, on the old media, television, etc., they didn't get there by being the smartest, the most successful, the best investigative reporters.

02:24:56.000 No, no, they got there because they were the ones who were willing to play ball.

02:24:59.000 The system rewards people willing to perpetuate the system.

02:25:22.000 Okay.

02:25:24.000 Well, they're colliding right now.

02:25:25.000 They are colliding right now.

02:25:26.000 The internet also realizes that this is the first time maybe ever that people truly have had a voice and the ability to influence things like this.

02:25:34.000 It really didn't exist before. 0.93

02:25:36.000 You couldn't get on Reddit and just start a thread and that thread becomes a fucking revolution.

02:25:42.000 There was no access before. 1.00

02:25:45.000 You could start a protest, you could meet in Washington, D.C., and they would fucking turn the hydrants on you and sick dogs on you and shut that shit down. 0.99

02:25:51.000 Then the news would give a really distorted account of what actually happened. 1.00

02:25:56.000 For most Americans, that would be their version of the truth.

02:26:00.000 Kent State, perfect example.

02:26:02.000 They shot a bunch of kids that were protesting. 1.00

02:26:05.000 The National Guard comes in, shoots these fucking kids. 1.00

02:26:08.000 There was outrage because people got shot. 1.00

02:26:12.000 What was the official story that got broadcast on the news?

02:26:16.000 I mean, what was the story that most Americans...

02:26:18.000 It took years before people deciphered it and saw what was really going on.

02:26:22.000 I mean, that has been...

02:26:23.000 The media has had the ability to do that forever.

02:26:26.000 I mean, that's how they pulled off the Gulf of Tonkin when they got on TV and said that, you know, the North Vietnamese have shot American submarines and sunk them off the Gulf of Tonkin. 0.99

02:26:35.000 Holy shit, we're at war with the... 0.99

02:26:37.000 Meanwhile, it didn't even happen! 1.00

02:26:38.000 Yeah.

02:26:39.000 They just broadcast something on television that didn't even happen.

02:26:44.000 It's very difficult to do that today.

02:26:46.000 Very, very difficult to do that today.

02:26:48.000 So, from time to time, people in the mainstream media will criticize like RT, or they're run by the Russian government, or Al Jazeera, or they're run by the government of Qatar.

02:26:56.000 So that has validity, right?

02:26:58.000 The flip side is, what's CNN run by?

02:27:01.000 So, think about this.

02:27:02.000 When's the last time you heard CNN say, the Pentagon is lying?

02:27:07.000 Never.

02:27:08.000 Never, right?

02:27:10.000 So, does anyone in America actually believe that the Pentagon has never told a lie?

02:27:17.000 Really, could anyone possibly believe that?

02:27:20.000 So, if the CNN never reports the truth, it just reports whatever the Pentagon is saying, Then how are they better than Pravda, let alone RT or Al Jazeera, right?

02:27:31.000 But in fact, they're more devious in a sense because they have the veneer of being a real media organization and journalists, etc.

02:27:40.000 But when you look past that veneer, they do a better job than Pravda at supporting the government.

02:27:47.000 Yeah, that's creepy.

02:27:49.000 Okay, and think about this.

02:27:51.000 What's the last investigative report CNN broke about the government?

02:27:58.000 They don't even have investigative reporters.

02:28:00.000 Isn't that amazing?

02:28:01.000 Largest cable news channel.

02:28:03.000 Well, they're not anymore, but they used to be, right?

02:28:04.000 Their most trusted name in news.

02:28:06.000 They don't actually want to know the news.

02:28:09.000 If you had investigative reporters, if I was running CNN, I'd have an army of investigators.

02:28:13.000 I've had a wolf pack of investigative reporters, right?

02:28:16.000 And I'd be a watchdog, right?

02:28:18.000 And I'd...

02:28:19.000 Why don't they do that?

02:28:20.000 Because they don't want to know.

02:28:22.000 They're gonna get themselves in trouble if they find out what the government's doing wrong.

02:28:25.000 That's why they don't have any investigative reporters.

02:28:27.000 Have you ever talked to Amber Lyon?

02:28:30.000 No.

02:28:30.000 Amber Lyon used to work for CNN. She did this detailed piece on Bahrain, and then they turned it into essentially an infomercial to get tourists to go to Bahrain.

02:28:40.000 I just heard about that, yeah. 0.97

02:28:42.000 Covering snipers, shooting protesters, and the whole thing was just a fucked system where you had an oligarchy. 0.98

02:28:50.000 You had this guy who was in control of this country and just... 0.98

02:28:55.000 It was a very repressive government and very repressive scenario.

02:28:59.000 But it was also near Iran and we wanted to use their ports and we wanted to be able to control their ports.

02:29:07.000 So they had this relationship with the United States government.

02:29:09.000 So they essentially bought time on CNN. They squashed her piece, bought time on CNN and made like a tourist piece. 0.97

02:29:18.000 About Bahrain.

02:29:19.000 Look, our beloved allies in the Gulf, like Saudi Arabia, what are they?

02:29:24.000 They're the worst governments in the world.

02:29:26.000 I mean, they're the most oppressive for 50% of their population, let alone everything else. 0.96

02:29:31.000 50% are women.

02:29:32.000 Can't drive.

02:29:33.000 Need permission to go outside from a male. 0.99

02:29:36.000 I mean, how fucked up is that, right? 0.99

02:29:40.000 And by the way, 15 out of the 19 hijackers on 9-11 were Saudis. 0.99

02:29:45.000 They weren't Afghans, they weren't Iraqis, they were Saudis, right? 0.93

02:29:49.000 And we never touched them.

02:29:52.000 The Saudis are lovely, the Saudis are great, because as long as you're on the side of the Pentagon, everybody just salutes.

02:29:59.000 Yeah, it's a weird world we live in, man.

02:30:01.000 The influence of money in politics is so deep and so intertwined that there's parts of it that people ignore.

02:30:10.000 And one of the ones that I bring up all the time is cigarettes.

02:30:14.000 That you've never heard a politician ever say, we have to make cigarettes illegal.

02:30:19.000 We have to stop cigarettes.

02:30:21.000 Cigarettes are killing...

02:30:22.000 Almost a half a million Americans prematurely every year.

02:30:25.000 They die in horrible, painful, agonizing deaths.

02:30:28.000 We need to stop this.

02:30:30.000 This is a plague. 0.96

02:30:31.000 If there was a terrorist that came to our country and killed a half a million people a year, it would be our number one priority to eliminate that terrorist.

02:30:38.000 But meanwhile, we have this public health problem.

02:30:41.000 You don't hear that ever.

02:30:43.000 You don't hear a peep out of these people with full knowledge.

02:30:46.000 Everyone has full knowledge of this.

02:30:47.000 But it's because the cigarette companies, the tobacco companies, have given them untold billions of dollars of influence. 0.97

02:30:55.000 So because of that, everybody shuts the fuck up when it comes to cigarettes. 0.95

02:30:58.000 My nickname for John Boehner used to be Tobacco Checks. 0.97

02:31:01.000 John Tobacco Checks Boehner.

02:31:03.000 Because early on in his career, he got in a tiny bit of trouble, not that it mattered at all, because he eventually now runs the house, right?

02:31:11.000 Yeah.

02:31:20.000 Handing out checks on the floor of the house.

02:31:22.000 How much were the checks for?

02:31:23.000 I don't remember that part.

02:31:24.000 I would like to know the number. 1.00

02:31:26.000 If it's like a dollar, fuck you. 1.00

02:31:28.000 If it's like a million. 1.00

02:31:30.000 But isn't that like the picture of corruption?

02:31:33.000 Yes, it is the picture of corruption.

02:31:34.000 That is it.

02:31:35.000 And look at what the system did.

02:31:37.000 It took that picture of corruption, the guy who was doing that, John Tobacco Checks Boehner, And it put him to the top of the heap.

02:31:44.000 It didn't punish him.

02:31:45.000 It rewarded him for that.

02:31:47.000 Even the way he looks.

02:31:48.000 He looks like a character in a Batman movie that's about to make a terrible decision.

02:31:52.000 You know, it's going to allow some evil superhero. 0.95

02:31:55.000 Look at that guy. 1.00

02:31:56.000 That fucking picture of him. 1.00

02:31:57.000 It just looks like a guy who's just about to fuck over everybody. 1.00

02:32:00.000 He's got that look about him. 0.99

02:32:02.000 But, you know, if you become that guy and you exist in that world for that long, you take on that look. 1.00

02:32:08.000 You can just almost look through his eyes, the window to the soul, and see, like, this motherfucker needs... 1.00

02:32:14.000 Oh, Jesus. 1.00

02:32:15.000 What's he doing in there?

02:32:17.000 And there's a lot of those guys. 1.00

02:32:18.000 A lot of those fucking guys. 1.00

02:32:20.000 A lot of them. 1.00

02:32:21.000 It's amazing.

02:32:22.000 It's amazing how intertwined this system is.

02:32:24.000 And I wonder what it's going to take to untangle it.

02:32:28.000 I wonder if we're going to be able to see that in our lifetime.

02:32:32.000 Well, I'm trying.

02:32:32.000 I know you are.

02:32:33.000 I know you are, and I respect that very much, and I support that very much.

02:32:36.000 I think it's an amazing thing.

02:32:37.000 And I think that even without your Wolfpack, I think you're trying just by distributing information and by letting people know the actual roots of it and just sort of getting to points that are being ignored by these influenced networks because of the fact that you're not influenced by anything other than your own opinions and the facts that present themselves to you.

02:33:02.000 That's super important, man.

02:33:03.000 It's probably one of the most important things.

02:33:05.000 I think when history is written down in the future and we go over this era, this will be the era of the internet.

02:33:12.000 I really do believe that.

02:33:14.000 I believe that these decades, this 30, 40 years from the point of the first initial...

02:33:22.000 Introduction in the early 90s, when it really became a part of America, to where it eventually is going to go to.

02:33:28.000 I think this is going to be an incredible era of change and of influence in a way that I don't think has ever existed before.

02:33:35.000 We're a part of it.

02:33:36.000 We're in the middle of it right now, so I don't think we recognize it.

02:33:39.000 I think we do, kind of.

02:33:40.000 We talk about it because we literally are in it.

02:33:44.000 I mean, we are one of the people that's taking full advantage of this strange new time.

02:33:48.000 But I think, well, history looks back on it, man. 0.99

02:33:50.000 They're going to look back on it like, this is a crazy fucking time. 0.98

02:33:54.000 And then they invented the internet, and the whole class goes, oh. 0.99

02:33:59.000 You know?

02:34:00.000 Yeah, and so, you know, to bring it back to our conversation about darkness and light, so the Pentagon, that is this force of darkness for so many things, unfortunately, in the world, invented the internet, right? 1.00

02:34:13.000 They fucked up! 0.97

02:34:15.000 LAUGHTER So the overall story is a little bit more complicated than that, but they had a huge role in it. 1.00

02:34:21.000 And so how's that for irony?

02:34:23.000 It's hilarious.

02:34:24.000 I don't think anybody could have ever possibly saw this coming.

02:34:27.000 I think if they could pull it back, they probably would.

02:34:31.000 That is the number one biggest problem to govern is the ability that people have today to express themselves and exchange information and the access to that information being...

02:34:44.000 Almost completely permeated into our society.

02:34:47.000 It's almost everywhere. 1.00

02:34:49.000 You basically get the news on your fucking microwave now. 0.99

02:34:52.000 It's just too much information now. 1.00

02:34:54.000 You can't hold it back.

02:34:56.000 So that's the thing.

02:34:57.000 What does the government always try to do? 0.66

02:34:59.000 Most important thing is information and knowledge.

02:35:02.000 So they try to collect all the information on you.

02:35:03.000 That's why they do wiretapping of 300 million Americans, right?

02:35:07.000 Because they want all the info on you.

02:35:09.000 But like today, a story we're going to do on the Young Turks, a woman getting arrested Winds up audio recording the arrest.

02:35:19.000 Cops say that you did not get our permission.

02:35:22.000 You wiretapped us.

02:35:23.000 So they put an extra charge on her. 0.95

02:35:26.000 Okay. 0.99

02:35:26.000 We're allowed to wiretap the fuck out of you, right? 0.99

02:35:29.000 But if you dare record us arresting you, you've broken a wiretapping law. 0.85

02:35:34.000 Isn't that incredible?

02:35:35.000 Yep.

02:35:35.000 That's because the government knows how powerful information is.

02:35:38.000 That's why they think we must have access to that tool and you can't have access to that tool, right?

02:35:45.000 Right. 0.99

02:35:45.000 But they fucked up. 0.99

02:35:46.000 Now the internet's out there, and that's why they do net neutrality. 0.98

02:35:51.000 Because they want to kill net neutrality so they can try to put the genie back in the bottle.

02:35:56.000 Did you hear about this guy who is some net administrator that cut the FCC's pipe to the internet down in 28-8?

02:36:05.000 Love that story.

02:36:05.000 Yeah.

02:36:06.000 Yeah.

02:36:07.000 What was the website?

02:36:08.000 Shoot, I forgot.

02:36:09.000 Yeah.

02:36:09.000 But he's like, oh, no, no, it's no big deal.

02:36:12.000 You're right.

02:36:12.000 Let's make it a transaction.

02:36:14.000 You know, you guys like transactions.

02:36:15.000 You want Verizon to have the ability and Comcast to have the ability to bring it down at my speed on the Internet and then pay more in order to speed it back up.

02:36:24.000 Great.

02:36:24.000 So give me $1,000 and I'll speed it back up for you, your FCC website.

02:36:29.000 Like, outrageous.

02:36:30.000 What do you mean, outrageous?

02:36:30.000 That's the system you want.

02:36:32.000 It's fucking brilliant. 0.99

02:36:33.000 Yeah, it is fucking brilliant. 0.83

02:36:34.000 Yeah, and then this net neutrality thing, to try to get rid of that is a very creepy precedent.

02:36:40.000 Because to give anybody in control, anybody with power and influence, the control of the distribution of information, that's the very thing that's endangering their power and control.

02:36:51.000 That distribution of information, that transparency. 1.00

02:36:54.000 That's showing what these fuckers are up to. 0.99

02:36:57.000 I mean, not enough people are up in arms, in my opinion. 1.00

02:37:00.000 It seems to be a thing that's escaped largely because it's being ignored by the mainstream media.

02:37:06.000 You're not seeing these stories.

02:37:07.000 You're not seeing these horrible stories of outrage all over CNN and Fox News.

02:37:11.000 You're not seeing them.

02:37:13.000 You're not seeing people freak out.

02:37:14.000 You want to know why?

02:37:16.000 Okay.

02:37:17.000 So, number one...

02:37:20.000 The internet is direct competition to old media like television.

02:37:23.000 Why would they want to support it?

02:37:25.000 Okay, so that's one.

02:37:26.000 But more importantly, all the dirty money in politics, where does it go?

02:37:31.000 It goes to buying TV ads.

02:37:34.000 So you think TV is going to be against money in politics?

02:37:38.000 You think TV is going to be open to the internet, bringing you that information so the politicians aren't hooked on the TV ads?

02:37:45.000 Hell no.

02:37:46.000 Hell no.

02:37:47.000 Nothing wants to eliminate the internet, the free flow of information, and keep money in politics more than television does.

02:37:56.000 Isn't that amazing?

02:37:58.000 You're doomed, TV. It's not going to make it.

02:38:01.000 You're not going to make it.

02:38:02.000 It's not going to last.

02:38:04.000 It's also...

02:38:06.000 You're going to be able to...

02:38:07.000 You see these new shows that are being developed exclusively for the internet, like House of Cards on Netflix, and that's just the beginning.

02:38:15.000 That's the tip of the iceberg.

02:38:16.000 And I think shows like yours and all these various shows that are just popping up on the internet, they're going to replace everything you see on television, except big budget things like maybe Game of Thrones.

02:38:27.000 Those things will hang on, first of all, because they're awesome, and two, because it's really fucking expensive to make these gigantic, huge...

02:38:36.000 You know, shows where you have special effects and just incredible theatrical productions.

02:38:40.000 Those are going to be the most difficult to replace.

02:38:42.000 The Captain America movies, things along those lines.

02:38:45.000 But everything else.

02:38:47.000 So, first of all, if Edward Snow never gets caught, it's no problem.

02:38:51.000 You should just demand a trial by combat.

02:38:54.000 And then we can solve this whole thing.

02:38:55.000 Did you watch the last episode of Game of Thrones?

02:38:57.000 Don't say anything.

02:38:58.000 No, I haven't.

02:38:59.000 It's last night.

02:39:00.000 Alright, nothing.

02:39:01.000 Don't say a word.

02:39:02.000 Okay, alright.

02:39:03.000 Sorry.

02:39:05.000 I don't even know what you just said.

02:39:07.000 La, la, la, la, la.

02:39:09.000 Okay, sorry.

02:39:10.000 Too much information there.

02:39:12.000 So, they're trying to hold things at bay, right?

02:39:16.000 But it's like a zombie movie with the things that, you know, we're going to crawl over the walls.

02:39:21.000 You can't build a wall large enough.

02:39:24.000 And they're fighting a losing battle, but they don't know it.

02:39:27.000 So, of course, here, I'll give you my example.

02:39:30.000 When I was at MSNBC, I was getting about 700,000 a night.

02:39:34.000 700,000 people a night.

02:39:35.000 It was a very good number back then.

02:39:36.000 It's still a very good number, right?

02:39:39.000 On our network, we get about 2.1 million views a day.

02:39:43.000 So three times larger than our cable news show.

02:39:47.000 Ooh, cable news, MSNBC, wow, 700,000.

02:39:51.000 2.1 million now without TV. So they can keep wishing it away, but it isn't going away.

02:39:58.000 And every day...

02:40:00.000 TV gets smaller, we get larger.

02:40:02.000 Well, you're also available instantaneously on a cell phone while you're on a subway.

02:40:07.000 That's the difference.

02:40:08.000 Like, you could get you so much easier.

02:40:10.000 The audio version of your show, the video version, the YouTube, you can get it anywhere. 0.99

02:40:15.000 You know, you could get it while you're on a fucking plane. 0.96

02:40:17.000 You could watch the YouTube clips while you're on a plane flying over the planet. 0.99

02:40:22.000 You can't really do that.

02:40:23.000 Their model is so antiquated, the on-demand access is really...

02:40:28.000 It's very limited in comparison to what's available on the internet.

02:40:31.000 And then when they try to compete with us on the internet, look, CNN puts out a news clip.

02:40:36.000 Like, who cares what you think, man?

02:40:39.000 Like, Wolf Blitzer, if you take away the CNN stuff and put him on the internet and said, okay, go get him, Wolf.

02:40:45.000 You're going to fail miserably.

02:40:47.000 Get, like, negative 17 views.

02:40:49.000 Yeah.

02:40:49.000 He's going to fail miserably, and there's no way you're going to have enough personalities that are willing to freely express themselves.

02:40:57.000 They don't exist.

02:40:59.000 They don't exist on TV. No, they don't exist.

02:41:01.000 So what are you going to do?

02:41:02.000 You're going to find internet people that are going to just work for you?

02:41:05.000 And then what are they going to do?

02:41:06.000 You're going to mold them?

02:41:07.000 Joe, again, you nailed it.

02:41:09.000 That's exactly what they're trying to do now.

02:41:10.000 Are they?

02:41:11.000 We've gotten offers on at least three of our hosts, two of them who've taken so much more money to go to TV, etc., right?

02:41:19.000 Because they think, oh great, we'll take the internet host, and then we'll mold them to be TV, and then they'll be just as popular, right?

02:41:26.000 But that's what MSNBC did with me.

02:41:28.000 Oh, incredibly popular guy online, we'll just make him senatorial, an establishment.

02:41:33.000 But that's not what made me popular in the first place. 0.98

02:41:35.000 You missed the whole fucking point, right? 0.96

02:41:38.000 And look, I love my host. 0.99

02:41:39.000 We've got a great set of hosts on the TYT network.

02:41:44.000 And I'm one of them.

02:41:45.000 It's not us.

02:41:46.000 It's not the host.

02:41:47.000 It's the idea.

02:41:48.000 And if it wasn't us, it'd be somebody else, right?

02:41:51.000 It's the idea that we're not going to serve the advertisers.

02:41:53.000 We're not going to serve the corporate parents.

02:41:56.000 We're not going to serve the politicians for access, the celebrities for access.

02:41:59.000 We're going to serve the audience.

02:42:02.000 We're going to serve the audience.

02:42:03.000 And so how are they going to compete with that?

02:42:05.000 They're not going to compete with that.

02:42:06.000 They're not.

02:42:06.000 Because someone can just set up a desk, put a camera in front of that desk, connect that camera to the internet, ready, roll.

02:42:12.000 And they can do just as good.

02:42:14.000 I mean, they can have a show. 1.00

02:42:15.000 You did it from your fucking living room 12 years ago. 1.00

02:42:18.000 And look at you today. 1.00

02:42:19.000 And let's say that they somehow co-opt us and we sell out, right?

02:42:23.000 Somebody else will come along.

02:42:25.000 Alex Jones.

02:42:25.000 He's waiting.

02:42:26.000 He's in Austin, Texas.

02:42:27.000 You say you're the number one, but I've got the statistics. 0.99

02:42:30.000 I've got the documents right here that show you're a liar, Cenk. 1.00

02:42:33.000 You're a New World Order puppet. 0.99

02:42:36.000 He seems like he's out there working for the people.

02:42:39.000 He's not working for the people.

02:42:40.000 He worked for MSNBC, ladies and gentlemen.

02:42:42.000 You don't get to MSNBC unless you sell your soul to David Icke's Reptilians.

02:42:48.000 That was awesome.

02:42:49.000 I never heard you do that.

02:42:52.000 That was amazing.

02:42:53.000 I've known that dude for a long time.

02:42:56.000 Alex Jones, in 1999, I did a DVD in Austin, Texas.

02:43:03.000 And Alex Jones and I put on Bush masks.

02:43:06.000 I was Bush Jr. He was Bush Sr. And we wore these outfits and ran around the Capitol.

02:43:12.000 And it was called Live from the Belly of the Beast.

02:43:14.000 It was right before Bush Sr. got elected.

02:43:17.000 And I've known him for even before then.

02:43:20.000 I've known that guy for a long time.

02:43:21.000 My theory is that Alex is a false flag operation.

02:43:24.000 Really?

02:43:25.000 Yeah.

02:43:25.000 Is that a real theory?

02:43:27.000 Kind of.

02:43:28.000 I'm half kidding, half serious. 1.00

02:43:29.000 Well, you say that because you're trying to fuck with me. 0.99

02:43:32.000 What he's trying to do right now is co-op my mind. 1.00

02:43:34.000 I'm sitting here in Austin, Texas.

02:43:36.000 I'm smoking cigarettes.

02:43:37.000 I'm drinking whiskey. 0.99

02:43:38.000 I'm getting fucking crazy. 0.98

02:43:39.000 I'm trying to protect people from the government. 0.99

02:43:41.000 There's black helicopters.

02:43:42.000 They're flying over my Dodge Charger.

02:43:45.000 So that is as good an impersonation of anyone that anyone has ever done.

02:43:51.000 Well, I've been around the dude, like I said, for a long time.

02:43:54.000 I know him very well.

02:43:55.000 So here's the false flag conspiracy on Alex Jones.

02:43:58.000 Okay, let me hear the conspiracy.

02:43:59.000 If you were going to do a bunch of conspiracies, but you wanted to discredit the idea that conspiracies happen, you would create someone like Alex Jones who would say plausible things like 25%, 33% of it makes perfect sense.

02:44:12.000 And then on top of that, you would add reptilians.

02:44:16.000 So that people will go, oh, that's just crazy talk.

02:44:20.000 Oh, a golf of Tonkin.

02:44:22.000 You think the government set that up.

02:44:24.000 Oh, you also think there's lizard people.

02:44:26.000 You're one of those Alex Jones guys.

02:44:31.000 You see what I'm saying?

02:44:32.000 I know him too well to believe that.

02:44:37.000 I'm friends with Alex.

02:44:38.000 I know him very well.

02:44:39.000 I would love to get the two of you together.

02:44:40.000 It would be a fascinating conversation.

02:44:42.000 No, I've gone on his show.

02:44:43.000 He's come on my show.

02:44:45.000 He's not what you think he is. 0.99

02:44:48.000 He's definitely crazy. 1.00

02:44:51.000 He's a little unhinged. 1.00

02:44:53.000 But he really believes what he's saying.

02:45:00.000 He really does. 0.91

02:45:01.000 He might not be right and he might jump to conclusions too often and he might cite statistics that may or may not actually exist or be factual, but he's right a lot of the time and that's what's really fucking crazy.

02:45:13.000 He made a video a long time ago And it was 911, the road to tyranny.

02:45:20.000 And it wasn't just about 9-11.

02:45:23.000 What it was about, not just false flag operations, but it was about agent provocateurs that I really wasn't aware of.

02:45:30.000 I wasn't aware that they will use...

02:45:33.000 Hired people, whether they're, you know, call them government agents, call them soldiers, whatever.

02:45:37.000 They used people where they paid these people to infiltrate peaceful protests and start chaos.

02:45:46.000 Break windows, light fires, do all these things so that they would have the motivation or they would have the green light.

02:45:55.000 To send in the troops to stop all these protests.

02:45:59.000 Because the protests turned violent.

02:46:01.000 So they turned the protests violent.

02:46:02.000 And I was like, wow, that is crazy.

02:46:03.000 And then the expression, agent provocateur, I'd never heard of it at the time.

02:46:07.000 But he does a fantastic job of detailing it in his video. 0.97

02:46:11.000 And showing it, not just step by step along the way, videotaping these people that were wearing fucking, they were wearing ski masks, they were in military order boots. 0.97

02:46:20.000 I mean, military-issued boots. 0.98

02:46:22.000 He shows the photos of the bottoms of these boots.

02:46:25.000 He's like, these people are all wearing the same boots, ladies and gentlemen.

02:46:27.000 These boots are the same boots you will see on soldiers!

02:46:30.000 You'll see on police officers!

02:46:32.000 And he also detailed how they were all let off.

02:46:35.000 How they cordoned them off in a building, and instead of moving them in and arresting them, they had some sort of a negotiation.

02:46:42.000 They wound up letting them go.

02:46:44.000 So I don't know about the details of that, but I do know that, of course, conspiracies exist in the real world.

02:46:49.000 And false flag operations exist.

02:46:52.000 The Turkish government just got caught on tape with one of them.

02:46:54.000 What was it?

02:46:54.000 So the foreign minister was talking to some of the generals or whoever it was that was going to do this.

02:47:04.000 And he said, we have a compound within Syria.

02:47:07.000 They do.

02:47:08.000 It's to protect...

02:47:13.000 We're good to go.

02:47:26.000 It's on tape.

02:47:27.000 That's why the Turkish government shut down YouTube and Twitter for a while.

02:47:31.000 Because the tapes, of course you're not going to see that on Turkish television, they're just as controlled by the Turkish government as any of these are, right?

02:47:39.000 And then they couldn't control Twitter and YouTube, and the Prime Minister started losing it, so he just shut down all of YouTube, because those tapes made it out there.

02:47:47.000 So that stuff definitely exists.

02:47:49.000 What drives me crazy about Alex, and if you've known him that long, of course I trust you that he's not an actual false flag operation.

02:47:54.000 He might be.

02:47:55.000 I might be wrong.

02:47:56.000 I don't think I'm wrong.

02:47:57.000 But what drives me crazy about Alex is that then he'll start talking about how the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers want to kill off 90% of humanity, and I'm like, no, no, then you're going to stop.

02:48:06.000 Then you won't get people.

02:48:08.000 Like, that's crazy.

02:48:09.000 That's not true.

02:48:10.000 You don't understand, Cenk. 1.00

02:48:11.000 It's about life extension technology.

02:48:13.000 Life extension technology, what they're planning on doing is taking babies. 0.80

02:48:17.000 They'll extract the fetuses, and they're going to put them in your cornflakes with Radio ID chips.

02:48:25.000 He'll go into...

02:48:27.000 We have the documents.

02:48:28.000 We have the documents right here.

02:48:29.000 I'll show them after your show.

02:48:30.000 Oh, yeah, yeah. 1.00

02:48:31.000 And then people shut down and they go, oh, okay, well then that must all be full of shit. 1.00

02:48:37.000 Well, it's chemtrails. 1.00

02:48:43.000 Yeah, I know.

02:48:44.000 I agree.

02:48:44.000 I agree that there's no evidence whatsoever that they want to kill off a giant percentage of the population.

02:48:49.000 I mean, they used, like, the Georgia Guidestones as, like, the evidence of this.

02:48:52.000 Like, you know, keep your population below 500 million in the world.

02:48:56.000 I'm with you.

02:48:58.000 I don't agree with all of his conclusions, you know, at all.

02:49:01.000 Not even a little bit.

02:49:02.000 But I think having a Looney Tunes dude out there like that pushing buttons and pulling cords, what's interesting is sometimes things get...

02:49:11.000 Brought to light.

02:49:12.000 Like, the Bohemian Grove. 0.99

02:49:14.000 Like, wait a minute, world leaders really do dress up like fucking, like Obi-Wan Kenobi? 1.00

02:49:20.000 And light an effigy on fire under the Moloch, the Owl God statue? 1.00

02:49:26.000 Like, what the fuck? 1.00

02:49:27.000 Like, these are world leaders and bankers, and these people really do meet there every year? 1.00

02:49:31.000 I mean, he really did uncover that. 0.99

02:49:32.000 The weird skull and bones type shit. 0.96

02:49:35.000 He was talking about that way before the John Kerry Bush election. 0.99

02:49:39.000 So, oftentimes, the great majority of the time, in my opinion, there's no cigar-filled room. 0.83

02:49:44.000 It's just you build a system and it rewards certain things and provides disincentives for other things.

02:49:50.000 And that's why you have people, news actors who do what they do.

02:49:53.000 You have Barack Obama who does what he does.

02:49:55.000 But sometimes there is a smoke-filled room, right?

02:49:59.000 Sometimes you get a speech at MSNBC saying, no, no, no, you didn't get the message.

02:50:04.000 You gotta act like the establishment, right? 1.00

02:50:06.000 And sometimes you have these crazy guys, like real important people, dress up in funny costumes, get together and pat each other in the ass. 1.00

02:50:14.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:50:17.000 That's real!

02:50:18.000 And that's trippy, man.

02:50:19.000 It is trippy.

02:50:20.000 I mean, look...

02:50:22.000 So, when you go back to the Masonic Lodges and stuff, that's like powerful people getting together and doing each other's solids, right?

02:50:29.000 And they want to feel better about it, so they do a club and they're a fraternity or whatever they are, and they wear funny hats and... 0.95

02:50:37.000 How about when you look at dollar bills and you see all the fucking cryptic shit on there and the pyramid with the eye above it? 0.97

02:50:43.000 Like, hey, what's going on here, man? 0.99

02:50:45.000 What exactly is all this?

02:50:47.000 What are you guys up to?

02:50:48.000 What's going on behind the scenes?

02:50:50.000 So, Dan Brown in, what was the famous book?

02:50:53.000 Da Vinci Code?

02:50:54.000 Yeah.

02:50:54.000 So, the one thing I got out of that book was, well, he's right.

02:50:59.000 I mean, the symbols did get there for a reason.

02:51:02.000 There's symbols all around us.

02:51:04.000 They did mean something at some time to somebody.

02:51:06.000 So it's not an accident that there's an eye on the pyramid.

02:51:09.000 I don't know what it means, and I'm not sure that it's nefarious, and I'm positive it's not about the lizard people.

02:51:17.000 But, you know, at some point...

02:51:18.000 And look, the Masonic Lodges were probably good things.

02:51:20.000 You know what? 0.99

02:51:21.000 My guess, I have no idea, but my guess is that those are the people who were smart enough to get together and be like, yeah, religious bullshit, right? 0.99

02:51:27.000 We all agree. 1.00

02:51:28.000 Yeah, yeah, it's totally bullshit. 1.00

02:51:29.000 Okay, now let's come up with logical shit to actually run this place, because there are villagers out there believing nonsense. 1.00

02:51:37.000 So let's come up with logical rules. 0.99

02:51:39.000 Do you see what I'm saying?

02:51:40.000 Yes, yes.

02:51:41.000 So it might have had a good sign, but then once you get powerful people in a room, they're like, We should set the rules in our favor, right?

02:51:47.000 Yeah, agreed.

02:51:48.000 Yep, yep.

02:51:48.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:51:50.000 Infowars.com, ladies and gentlemen.

02:51:51.000 For more details, we're out of time, man.

02:51:54.000 We ran into three hours.

02:51:55.000 That was it.

02:51:55.000 Flew by.

02:51:56.000 We could do another three like that, easily.

02:51:58.000 You know what?

02:51:59.000 It wound up being like my first show ever.

02:52:01.000 Half about politics, half about philosophy.

02:52:04.000 Yeah, man.

02:52:06.000 It kind of all seems to fall into that.

02:52:09.000 Well, that's kind of life, right?

02:52:10.000 Isn't it?

02:52:11.000 I think so.

02:52:11.000 It's about who's running us, why do we think the way we think, sex, all those things, food.

02:52:16.000 Everything gets lumped in together.

02:52:18.000 We could have talked about sex a little bit more, but that's okay.

02:52:20.000 Next time.

02:52:22.000 Thank you, brother.

02:52:23.000 It was a lot of fun, man.

02:52:23.000 I really appreciate it.

02:52:24.000 Oh, no, no.

02:52:25.000 This was an incredible conversation, man.

02:52:26.000 I'm glad we finally got this done.

02:52:28.000 We'll do it more often.

02:52:29.000 And I'll do yours, too, for sure.

02:52:30.000 Absolutely.

02:52:31.000 I absolutely love this.

02:52:33.000 This is my kind of show, so happy to do anything.

02:52:35.000 Beautiful.

02:52:36.000 Awesome.

02:52:36.000 Glad to hear it, man.

02:52:37.000 All right.

02:52:38.000 Follow Cenk online, Cenk Uygur.

02:52:41.000 It's C-E-N-K-U-Y-G-U-R on Twitter.

02:52:46.000 The Young Turks, you can get it on YouTube.

02:52:48.000 What is the website?

02:52:50.000 tytnetwork.com.

02:52:51.000 That's our website on YouTube.

02:52:53.000 It's youtube.com slash tyt. 0.99

02:52:55.000 Oh, you got the fucking Korean cat right on the front. 1.00

02:52:59.000 Oof. 1.00

02:53:00.000 Yeah, he's got a badass haircut.

02:53:02.000 Yeah, isn't he making everybody else have that haircut too?

02:53:04.000 Isn't that the rumor now?

02:53:05.000 That's the rumor, but I think it's probably unsubstantiated.

02:53:07.000 That's government propaganda.

02:53:08.000 And if you want to know more about Wolfpack, it's wolf-pack, P-A-C, wolf-pack.com.

02:53:15.000 Infowars.com, ladies and gentlemen.

02:53:17.000 We fight for your future!

02:53:19.000 Thanks to Squarespace.

02:53:20.000 Go to Squarespace.com.

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02:54:00.000 We will be back tomorrow night, 9pm, with our 500th episode with Doug Stanhope and Tom Rhodes.

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02:54:08.000 Much love.

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The Joe Rogan Experience - May 12, 2014

Joe Rogan Experience #499 - Cenk Uygur

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