The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #501 - Randall Carlson

00:00:02.000 Good morning, everybody.

00:00:03.000 It's morning.

00:00:04.000 It's like a real job.

00:00:05.000 This is like a regular job.

00:00:08.000 This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience is brought to you by NatureBox.

00:00:13.000 NatureBox is a way that you can get delicious, healthy snacks delivered to your home or your office.

00:00:20.000 I have them delivered to my house, but they're the official snack of the Joe Rogan Experience now.

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00:00:48.000 There's these sriracha cashews.

00:00:51.000 They're not getting in here.

00:00:52.000 They never make it.

00:00:53.000 They get to my house.

00:00:55.000 I open the box.

00:00:57.000 I pop it open. 0.99

00:00:58.000 I said, where are the fucking cashews? 1.00

00:00:59.000 Give me them bitches. 1.00

00:01:01.000 I'm never bringing them in here. 1.00

00:01:03.000 I'll just tell you right now, Jamie.

00:01:04.000 You never get any of them shiracha cashews.

00:01:06.000 Unless they send a triple order.

00:01:08.000 They're too good.

00:01:09.000 They're my favorite new snack.

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00:01:19.000 If you're at work and you're looking for snacks all the time... 1.00

00:01:23.000 You hit that vending machine and you're like, what can I eat here that doesn't make me feel like a piece of shit? 0.99

00:01:29.000 Usually the answer is nothing. 1.00

00:01:30.000 Maybe you might go with potato chips over candy bars or fucking cookies or something stupid. 1.00

00:01:37.000 But you could eat fairly clean. 1.00

00:01:42.000 You could get really clean where you could have these spicy pistachios that are delicious.

00:01:49.000 Or like I said...

00:01:50.000 You can go with pretzels, but I recommend the sriracha cashews.

00:01:55.000 They're there.

00:01:55.000 Oh, they're so good.

00:01:57.000 They're so good, dude.

00:01:58.000 Trust me.

00:02:00.000 It would be your favorite thing if I ever brought them in.

00:02:03.000 They're never making it in here, son.

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00:02:21.000 But they have South Pacific Plantain Chips or another one.

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00:02:26.000 They're never making it in here.

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00:02:44.000 Enjoy it.

00:02:44.000 I enjoy it.

00:02:45.000 And like I said, they're the official snack food of the Joe Rogan experience.

00:02:49.000 What'd you say?

00:02:49.000 Enjoy it.

00:02:50.000 Enjoy it.

00:02:51.000 Brody Stevens.

00:02:52.000 Enjoy it.

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00:05:58.000 That's O-N-N-I-T and use the code word ROGAN. Alright, Randall Carlson is here.

00:06:04.000 It's early in the morning. 1.00

00:06:05.000 Why fuck around? 1.00

00:06:06.000 Cue the music. 1.00

00:06:14.000 Trying to get the old brain fired up in the AM. It's very unusual that...

00:06:25.000 Well, I usually get up around this time, so do a podcast around this time.

00:06:29.000 Randall Carlson, ladies and gentlemen.

00:06:31.000 I first met Randall quite a few years back in Atlanta, and he blew my brain open with a bunch of crazy talk about asteroids and just... 0.99

00:06:42.000 All kinds of crazy shit.

00:06:43.000 Sacred geometry, and you're a very interesting cat, and you got a lot of cool stuff to talk about. 0.98

00:06:50.000 So I'm glad we finally got you here on the podcast.

00:06:52.000 You're a much-requested guest on my online forum.

00:06:57.000 So folks know about you.

00:06:59.000 They know about your work.

00:07:00.000 And you're here.

00:07:01.000 Uh-oh.

00:07:04.000 All these years of anonymity, and now I'm suddenly...

00:07:09.000 I don't know if I'm ready for this, Joe.

00:07:11.000 I think you're ready, dude.

00:07:12.000 I feel it from you.

00:07:13.000 This is your time to shine.

00:07:14.000 All right, Joe.

00:07:16.000 Coming from you.

00:07:17.000 That's all it requires.

00:07:19.000 Well, we had a great conversation when we first met.

00:07:21.000 We did.

00:07:21.000 Ever since then, I've been trying to figure out a way to repeat it online.

00:07:26.000 There's videos of us actually having parts of the conversation.

00:07:30.000 There's music in the background.

00:07:32.000 We're at the comedy club in Atlanta. 1.00

00:07:33.000 Crazy shit going on. 0.99

00:07:36.000 You first, I don't remember what we first started talking about, but you blew my mind when you started talking to me about the Holocene Crater. 0.99

00:07:44.000 And that this pretty distinct evidence that, you know, there's been more than one events on this earth besides the one that everybody knows about, the 65 million year ago one where the big chunk of rock hit the Yucatan and killed the dinosaurs.

00:08:04.000 But there's been a series of those, and that these things may very well be responsible for a lot of the cataclysmic stories that are in Epic of Gilgamesh, the Noah's Ark story.

00:08:15.000 All these different fables and tales of ancient traditions may be based on these cataclysmic disasters.

00:08:23.000 Since we've spoken, science has started to validate a lot of your theories and ideas, even more substantially, the discovery of this nuclear glass that they find all throughout Europe and Asia.

00:08:38.000 Tell me about all this stuff.

00:08:40.000 Well, did you catch the thing about a month ago?

00:08:43.000 I think it was in the New York Times, most of the major newspapers, a group of former NASA astronauts and scientists came out and said new evidence was showing that we were probably somewhere between three and ten times more likely to encounter things than anybody had previously been estimating,

00:08:58.000 even five to ten years ago.

00:09:01.000 Yeah, it was a pretty major article in most of the mainstream media.

00:09:06.000 You mean by encounter things, by getting hit by something?

00:09:09.000 Yes.

00:09:10.000 Of course you remember what happened on February 15th of 2013, right?

00:09:14.000 What happened on February 15th?

00:09:15.000 Was that the Russian...?

00:09:17.000 Yeah, and what was really interesting about that is because everybody was, at least people who are interested in this sort of thing, were kind of looking to the sky anyway because this was the closest Pass of an asteroid coming within 17,000 miles of the Earth.

00:09:34.000 At the same time, this object totally out of the blue came in and exploded over Chelyabinsk, Siberia.

00:09:40.000 So it was very interesting and coincidental if There are such things as coincidences.

00:09:46.000 Here, when we're expecting this very close flyby of an asteroid, a near-Earth asteroid, coming actually within our geosynchronous satellites, within the orbits of those satellites, at the same time that this object is coming within 17,000 miles of the Earth,

00:10:04.000 suddenly, unexpectedly, here comes this second object and explodes With the force of about a, I believe it was about a 50 kiloton nuclear weapon.

00:10:14.000 And of course it had exploded quite high, about 20, I believe about 18 to 20 miles in the atmosphere.

00:10:21.000 And so It didn't kill anybody.

00:10:25.000 However, the thing to bear in mind is if that object had been just a little bit bigger, or it had been a little bit denser, or the angle of approach had been a little steeper, instead of 1,600 injuries there probably could have been 1,600 or more casualties.

00:10:40.000 At that point I think the world would have really sat up and taken notice.

00:10:44.000 But it was basically just a warning shot.

00:10:48.000 It seems to me that our knowledge of asteroids and meteor impacts and things of that nature, our actual experience on it is based on this short window that we call human history, which is, for the Earth, such a brief,

00:11:04.000 tiny blink of an eye.

00:11:07.000 It is.

00:11:08.000 Although I like to point out there, you know, when you say human history, we're talking, you know, 4,500 to 5,000 years ago.

00:11:16.000 Generally, I think most historians of ancient history will usually say that the emergence of cuneiform writing in the Middle East marks the beginning of official recorded history.

00:11:32.000 But you've got to bear in mind that we modern humans have been around a lot longer than that.

00:11:38.000 Right now, as far as the hard evidence goes, which is what I like to refer to, Which means skeletal remains.

00:11:46.000 Skeletal remains of humans that as far as we know are basically no different than modern humans.

00:11:53.000 If you put flesh on them and dressed them up in modern clothes and they walked down the street, you wouldn't think they were anything unusual.

00:12:01.000 Modern skeletal remains of modern humans are now dating between 150,000 and 180,000 years.

00:12:07.000 So when you think about that, you know, compared to what we actually have of our record of history, our record of history is 120th, 125th, 130th of the actual time that we humans have been here.

00:12:21.000 Now, it could be that modern humans have actually been here much longer than 180,000 years.

00:12:27.000 We have no way of knowing at what point we moderns first appeared on this planet.

00:12:32.000 But when you think of 180,000 years compared to, let's say in round numbers, 5,000 years, it means that there's a lot of the human story missing.

00:12:43.000 The thing that's always intrigued me is that given the assumption that they would have had the same intelligence as us, they've got the same brain case size, the same cranial capacity, so one would assume that with brains as big as our modern brains,

00:12:59.000 they were able to think, they had forethought, they were able to plan ahead, presumably have some kind of a tradition that could be passed on from generation to generation and accumulated learning.

00:13:13.000 But what we see is that there's basically no record to speak of of what people were doing culturally.

00:13:22.000 And that has led a lot of scientists to assume that for all those tens of thousands of years and hundreds and hundreds of generations, that people were essentially living nothing more than a subsistence, kind of hunter-gatherer existence,

00:13:37.000 right?

00:13:38.000 But what they haven't taken into account is the extremity of some of the global changes that have occurred in the interval that we humans have been here.

00:13:49.000 And as we go through our discussion today, and we'll pull up some images, I think you'll begin to get an idea of how extreme and how sweeping some of these changes have been and why in the aftermath of those changes we shouldn't expect to find a whole lot of hard cultural evidence.

00:14:10.000 Because what you'll hopefully begin to appreciate is that were some of these events of the scale and magnitude that have happened probably a dozen or more times in the 150 or 200,000 years that we've been here, were those events to occur today,

00:14:26.000 10,000 years from now, archaeologists would be sifting through the rubble looking for any kind of evidence that we had ever been here.

00:14:35.000 And that's the thing we have to get into our consciousness.

00:14:39.000 I guess if there's any implication to the work that I've been doing is that we certainly can't take our present position for granted.

00:14:48.000 It seems very difficult for us to put into perspective numbers like 10,000 or 100,000 or a million.

00:14:57.000 We know that the universe has been around allegedly for 14 billion, so the Earth is 4.6 billion.

00:15:07.000 Those numbers are so weird to us.

00:15:09.000 They don't register.

00:15:10.000 They're just, like, I know 4 billion is more than 400,000, but both of them are alien. 1.00

00:15:16.000 You know what I mean?

00:15:16.000 It's like, I don't think we could really wrap our head around the idea that 10,000 years is such an incredible length of time that if you left a car out for 10,000 years, within, you know, 3 or 4,000, it would be absorbed completely by the Earth.

00:15:34.000 Joe, within three or four centuries.

00:15:36.000 Really?

00:15:36.000 Oh, yeah.

00:15:37.000 I mean, if you look at steel-bodied cars, I remember very well as a kid, not far from where we lived, there was an auto graveyard.

00:15:45.000 And all the teenagers around there who were racing cars back in the 50s and crashing them up and everything, they seemed to end up there.

00:15:53.000 And as a kid, I used to like to go and kind of hang around there and play in some of the old cars.

00:15:57.000 But They were already, after sitting out there for 10 years, I mean, already well on their way to rusting away.

00:16:04.000 I mean, once that process of oxidation begins to take place, it accelerates.

00:16:10.000 Not far from where I live in Atlanta, there was an old iron bridge that had been built around the 1890s.

00:16:18.000 And it's no longer there, but by the 1980s, it had almost rusted to nothing.

00:16:24.000 Within a century, it almost rusted to nothing.

00:16:27.000 Yeah, metal does not last long when exposed to the elements.

00:16:31.000 There was an interesting series of shows a few years ago.

00:16:35.000 It had to do with the idea of, what if humans just suddenly departed?

00:16:40.000 What if we took humans out of the equation?

00:16:42.000 What would happen to all of the infrastructure left behind?

00:16:45.000 Just under normal, kind of gradualistic change that we're used to within the last few centuries.

00:16:52.000 The upshot of it was that 10,000 years from now, It's pretty much gone.

00:16:57.000 You know, I mean, if you look at the great buildings that make up all the metropolitan areas now of the world, most of them are steel frame structures, and they're clothed in a skin that will keep the elements out maybe for a half a century.

00:17:15.000 But without maintenance, I mean, you know that the Golden Gate Bridge up in San Francisco is constantly undergoing maintenance.

00:17:24.000 Because if you stop maintaining it, immediately it starts decaying.

00:17:28.000 Immediately it starts rusting.

00:17:30.000 And interesting, if you think about, if we suddenly, if humans left the planet 10,000 years from now, some interstellar anthropologists arrive, what would they see that would indicate that we had been here?

00:17:46.000 What do you think would still be left after 10,000 years?

00:17:48.000 There's actually two things that they named in this particular program.

00:17:52.000 I bet you can guess one of them.

00:17:53.000 Mount Rushmore?

00:17:54.000 Mount Rushmore.

00:17:55.000 Good guess, yes.

00:17:56.000 That's one of them.

00:17:57.000 And, of course, the Great Pyramid would be the other one.

00:18:00.000 And that's it.

00:18:01.000 You know, everything else is gone.

00:18:03.000 Now, when you now begin to factor in, the thing that I've been basically working with is the idea that we have these intermittent, I call them non-linearities, discontinuities within the normal orderly progression of things,

00:18:20.000 the catastrophes, if you will.

00:18:22.000 Superimpose a few of those in the process and basically 5,000, 10,000 years from now, You're not going to find much to show that we had been here.

00:18:32.000 That's incredible.

00:18:33.000 And when you see structures like Gobekli Tepe, which is within the last couple decades been unearthed in Turkey, Which has really thrown a giant monkey wrench into the timeline of the hunter-gatherer transition into the modern agricultural city.

00:18:52.000 We're in a weird state because people are starting to dig up these things and Gobekli Tepe was a completely unknown structure until this one farmer or herder I think?

00:19:20.000 It was purposely covered up 12,000 to 14,000 years ago, which means that who knows how long it was there before.

00:19:29.000 It could have been several thousand years old when they decided to cover it up, but it was purposely filled in, an enormous area, purposely filled in somewhere around 12,000 years ago.

00:19:41.000 Could it have been purposely covered up in order to protect it and preserve it?

00:19:45.000 Could be, right?

00:19:46.000 That we were hoping, or they were hoping rather, that someone like us would come along, not us, like definitely not me, maybe you, but someone would come along and uncover it and then go, whoa, what's this all about?

00:19:59.000 Like maybe they knew that there were going to be moments in time where these things happen, these impacts, these asteroidal impacts, and that there needed to be some sort of a way of keeping track or some sort of a way of preserving.

00:20:16.000 Well, that would probably be one way of preserving it, for sure.

00:20:19.000 And the other thing would be, just like you mentioned, the two things, Mount Rushmore and the Great Pyramid, of course, are both built of stone, which is obviously much more durable than steel or the fabricated materials that we're making today.

00:20:35.000 Even plastics.

00:20:36.000 Even plastics are going to degrade over a few millennia.

00:20:39.000 But if you want to preserve something for millennia, make it out of stone.

00:20:44.000 And make it monumental.

00:20:47.000 And, you know, we're looking at something like...

00:20:49.000 You just made an interesting point about how much previous to the burial had it actually been there.

00:20:57.000 And, you know, it's difficult to date stone.

00:20:59.000 The way you would date stone is, you know, you can use various...

00:21:04.000 Or cosmogenic ways where when you expose stone to atmosphere, it's going to accumulate cosmic rays, which cause changes within the stone that can actually be measured.

00:21:16.000 But if it's buried, it's not going to be subject to cosmic rays.

00:21:20.000 So you can't date it that way.

00:21:21.000 What you'd probably have to do is date, find some organic material within the soil matrix or matrix of material around it.

00:21:30.000 And date that material.

00:21:31.000 But even there, see, that's only going to give you a minimum date.

00:21:35.000 So in other words, the structure is there for who knows how long.

00:21:38.000 They decide to bury it and they bring in the material and bury it.

00:21:41.000 And if some organic material is in that soil, it's not necessarily going to be indicative of the age of the stone structure itself.

00:21:49.000 It's going to be indicative of the time at which it was buried.

00:21:54.000 And how did they determine that it was buried at 12,000 years ago?

00:21:58.000 Was it the uniformity of the depth of...

00:22:00.000 I would assume.

00:22:01.000 Now, I haven't made a study of Gobekli Tepe yet.

00:22:04.000 I'm hoping that when I get a chance to hang out with Graham Hancock, I'm going to get filled in on all the details of that.

00:22:11.000 I don't know specifically about that.

00:22:15.000 Other monuments, I do suspect that Gunang Padang is probably very old.

00:22:21.000 It's in Indonesia.

00:22:22.000 A lot of the monumental stonework that we find, like at Baalbek where you have these monstrous megaliths, probably go back to Pleistocene times.

00:22:34.000 And when I say Pleistocene, I'm talking about the period from like 10,000 years back to about two and a half million years ago.

00:22:41.000 The time during which there has been this succession of glacial ages and interglacial ages.

00:22:48.000 And you know, you mentioned the term Holocene.

00:22:51.000 We talked about that.

00:22:51.000 Holocene is essentially the modern geological epoch.

00:22:55.000 We've been in this Holocene epoch for, generally, they say 10,000 years in rough numbers.

00:23:02.000 Although it's becoming much more precisely dated, now you'll find a lot of references in the scientific literature that gives the date 11.6 or 11,600 years as being the onset of the Holocene.

00:23:16.000 Which is an interesting date for me because I don't know if you've ever read Plato and his accounts of Atlantis.

00:23:22.000 There's two of his dialogues, Critias and Timaeus, in which he describes Atlantis.

00:23:26.000 And he gives the dating in there at least on three separate occasions.

00:23:31.000 And he always places it, you know, there's this whole lineage of the story that goes back to Solon.

00:23:38.000 Who was a historical character, an authenticated historical character, who lived at about 600 BC. And he was a lawgiver and poet in Athens and due to political pressures and stuff, he went into a 10-year exile and during that 10-year exile he went to Egypt.

00:23:54.000 And it was there that he presumably heard the tale of Atlantis from elderly Egyptian priests.

00:24:02.000 And he was told and came back and then told the story to his grandson who told it again to...

00:24:11.000 Several individuals before it actually got to Socrates and then Plato, who presumably wrote it down.

00:24:16.000 But what it's interesting is that in Plato's account, he gives the dating for the demise of Atlantis as 9,000 years prior to Solon's exile to Egypt.

00:24:28.000 Well, given that that took place in, give or take, a decade or two, 600 B.C., We go back, that's 2600 years ago, okay, add that to the 9,000 years and we've got 11,600 years ago.

00:24:41.000 Now according to Plato's account, he says that it was shortly after this great war between the Atlanteans and the Proto-Athenians that there was this tremendous cataclysm and Atlantis sunk beneath the waves.

00:24:57.000 So he's giving that date at 11,600 years ago.

00:25:01.000 We now know from the scientific record that at 11,600 years ago there was a major climate transition and there was a catastrophic warming spike that was associated with a A mega-scale meltdown event of the great ice sheets that were covering North America.

00:25:20.000 It was this event at 11,600 that essentially jerked the planet out of the depths of this ice age that it had been in for thousands and thousands of years.

00:25:30.000 With that melting, you had a rapid rise of sea level.

00:25:36.000 So it's very interesting that the date that he gives is precisely now the date that the scientists are giving for this transition from what's called the Younger Dryas.

00:25:49.000 I think Graham has mentioned that in some of your interviews with him, the Younger Dryas, which was this climate spasm that ended the last ice age.

00:26:00.000 So if we look at the chronology of events, Around 26,000 years ago, we were in the latter phases of what appears to have been an interglacial period, not too much different from what we're in now.

00:26:16.000 Around 26,000 years ago the climate rapidly degenerated and these massive glaciers had expanded during this what they call the final phase or the late Wisconsin they refer to it because initially they were looking for this evidence in the state of Wisconsin so they named this last final phase the late Wisconsin.

00:26:38.000 So around 26,000 years ago we see the launching of this final phase of the ice age The late Wisconsin.

00:26:46.000 Then at around 13,000 years ago, as the dates are now giving it, there was this enormous spasm of warming.

00:26:54.000 And this seemed to be associated with rapid melting and the first real rapid sea level rise.

00:27:01.000 What happened is after a very short interval of time, the climate snapped back into the full depths of glacial cold.

00:27:09.000 Now, what had happened was, if you go back 18,000 years ago, this was the coldest part of the Ice Age.

00:27:17.000 I mean, this was a bitterly cold period of time.

00:27:22.000 Where I live, in Georgia, was the forests that grew there were like the forests you find in Canada now.

00:27:29.000 You had tundra up in northern Kentucky and southern Idaho.

00:27:33.000 Tundra in southern Ohio, excuse me.

00:27:38.000 So it was a really, really different climate.

00:27:41.000 And once you got to northern Ohio and the northern United States, where New York City is, Chicago, the Great Lakes, the Dakotas, all of that was under this massive ice sheet, thousands of feet thick.

00:27:52.000 When you go up into Canada, over Canada, the ice sheet was up to two miles thick.

00:27:58.000 I mean, think about that.

00:27:59.000 Two miles thick of ice.

00:28:01.000 And it reached from the Atlantic to the Pacific Ocean and from the northern United States as far south as the 45th parallel all the way up to the Arctic Circle.

00:28:10.000 Now that is a drastically different world.

00:28:13.000 Bear in mind, too, that with that much ice piled up on the surface of the land, sea levels, which contributed to the water that formed that ice, had to go down.

00:28:24.000 And it's now well documented that sea levels during the depth of the Ice Age were at least 400 feet lower than now.

00:28:31.000 Which means that the continental shelves of the planet were basically exposed now.

00:28:37.000 Where I live in Georgia, if you go out and stand right now on the beach, like at Cumberland Island, which is a beautiful wilderness preserve, you stand there on the beach, If you were suddenly transported back to the depths of the ice age, you'd be in the middle of a boreal forest, meaning a northern forest with spruce trees,

00:28:53.000 larch trees, alder trees, the kind of trees you find now in the northern United States, Canada, that area.

00:28:58.000 And the beach wouldn't have been anywhere close.

00:29:02.000 It would have been another 50, 75, 100 miles further to the east.

00:29:06.000 Wow.

00:29:06.000 Because as the sea level drops, what happens?

00:29:08.000 It recedes, right?

00:29:10.000 And so when this final phase of the Ice Age came on, sea levels began to drop.

00:29:17.000 And so what it did was it exposed all of the shallow marine ecologies that Rimmed all of the continents to the atmosphere and basically would have caused enormous ecological havoc.

00:29:30.000 Well then, within a millennia or so, the forests had expanded and had now grown out.

00:29:38.000 So now off the eastern seaboard of the United States, they constantly will find the remains of tree stumps and forests that had been growing there 14, 15, 16 thousand years ago.

00:29:50.000 Now, the ice begins to melt, sea level begins to rise.

00:29:53.000 Now, it's important to realize that if we look at the way modern civilization has evolved, what do we see?

00:29:59.000 Where do the first cities show up?

00:30:00.000 Aren't they mostly trading cities that show up?

00:30:03.000 They're port cities.

00:30:05.000 They show up along the confluence of rivers.

00:30:08.000 They show up where rivers meet the oceans.

00:30:10.000 They show up on the coastlines.

00:30:12.000 Okay, so if you had major cities during the Ice Age, as Graham has pointed out, they're now 400 feet underwater.

00:30:21.000 So you begin to appreciate, when you begin to really look at the history of our planet, what you realize is that it's been just almost unimaginably dynamic.

00:30:31.000 An alteration from an interglacial to a glacial age is an extreme process.

00:30:38.000 And so I guess the upshot of it is that when we look now at the climate record that we have in hand now, which has been Pretty much reconstructed with a fair amount of accuracy back to about 400,000 years and these are primarily based on ice cores extracted from Greenland,

00:30:58.000 extracted from Antarctica, extracted from mountain glaciers and mostly mostly mostly Antarctic and Greenland though.

00:31:06.000 When you pull out that ice core It's layered.

00:31:09.000 Think of cutting down a tree and looking at the annual layers, where you can actually count the number of layers in a cross-section of a tree log and you'll know how old it is, right?

00:31:21.000 Well, it's very similar in In an ice core, you've got layers, annual layers, because each year there's snow that falls.

00:31:28.000 It gets compressed into FIRN, F-I-R-N, which is the transitional phase between snow and glacial ice.

00:31:35.000 And it eventually gets compressed into glacial ice.

00:31:37.000 And when you look at a cross-section of the ice core, you'll see these fine layers in there.

00:31:41.000 So they can go back and they can look at these layers.

00:31:43.000 They can count the layers.

00:31:44.000 And there's a lot of things going on in these layers.

00:31:47.000 Oxygen isotopes are a critical one for ascertaining climate changes because oxygen isotopes are a function of temperature.

00:31:55.000 And we have a graph here we'll pull up in a minute.

00:31:58.000 We can actually look at that.

00:32:00.000 But what we see is that the climate has constantly oscillated back and forth.

00:32:05.000 And when we look at the Holocene, going back 10,000 years, And then we take that comparatively and we go back 250,000 to 400,000 years.

00:32:16.000 We can now begin to reconstruct these intervals of glacial periods, interglacial.

00:32:23.000 And here's the thing that should be sobering to everybody on the planet today as we think about climate change and all of this, because obviously it's constantly in the news and all.

00:32:34.000 The longest interglacial period now on record for at least the last quarter million years, the longest one, the longest unbroken period of interglacial warmth is the Holocene, the one we're in now.

00:32:49.000 We've already exceeded by several millennia the longest previous period of interglacial warmth.

00:32:56.000 I don't hear him talking about that.

00:32:58.000 I don't hear Al Gore talking about that.

00:33:01.000 I don't hear anybody talking about that in mainstream media, but it's hard scientific fact.

00:33:07.000 Yeah, we would be shitting our pants way more if it was a global cooling than if it was a global warming.

00:33:14.000 Let me tell you, we're going to pull up another graph.

00:33:17.000 We'll pull up a graph in a minute which shows you that even within the last couple of thousand years, periods of global cooling Have not been pleasant times.

00:33:26.000 Periods of global warming is when we see human population expanding, when we see cultural advancement, when we see life spans increasing, when we see infant mortality decreasing.

00:33:40.000 Periods of global cooling are when we see populations going into decline, when we see life spans diminishing.

00:33:49.000 You know, we had a period of global cooling that began between 536 and 540 AD. It was this period of global cooling that launched what we know as the Dark Ages.

00:34:03.000 And this has now been well documented by dendrochronologists.

00:34:07.000 Mike Bailey is one of the leaders of this, who's been looking at the climate changes of the last couple thousand years as preserved in the tree ring record.

00:34:17.000 Between 536 and about 544 A.D., we find that forest growth in the northern hemisphere almost came to a stop.

00:34:29.000 One of the consequences of that was it was associated with a global cooling and for multiple years running, there were agricultural collapses where because of the cold and the damp that came on with this, you know, the historical record is interesting because you read some of these accounts that were preserved from that period.

00:34:48.000 They talk about Weeks at a time where they couldn't see the sun.

00:34:52.000 They talk about when it did show up, it was just a feeble imitation of itself.

00:34:56.000 They talk about, you know, years with no summer, basically.

00:35:00.000 So what you had was succession of crop failures that led to people becoming malnourished, Once they became malnourished, their immune systems became weakened.

00:35:11.000 And in 542 A.D., about six years after this well-documented transition occurred, we had the onset of the Justinian plague, which wiped out a third the population of Europe.

00:35:23.000 And it took 300 years to recover from that.

00:35:27.000 Wow.

00:35:27.000 And we didn't recover from it until the climate shifted again, and we went into what's known as the medieval warm period.

00:35:35.000 And the medieval warm period was the time when the Scandinavians were farming on the west coast of Greenland where now it's perennially frozen.

00:35:44.000 And for about the next couple of hundred years the climate was, according to some researchers and some scientists, as much as two degrees warmer than now.

00:35:54.000 And you think it had to have been warmer if they were farming in Greenland where it is now frozen ground It had to have been warmer.

00:36:03.000 And one of the things that happened was with this warming, you had an expansion of the growing season.

00:36:11.000 And you also had the latitude belt at which viable farming or agriculture could be practiced shifted three to four hundred miles north of where it had been, which meant that for the first time, England actually had a flourishing wine industry.

00:36:27.000 Which didn't exist previously and it has only existed until recent times because of genetically modified crops.

00:36:33.000 It's now allowing them to grow grapes where they haven't been able to grow wine grapes until we go back to the medieval warm period.

00:36:42.000 So what happened was now there was a lot of food for people to eat, right?

00:36:47.000 People got healthier.

00:36:49.000 Human population began to increase, right?

00:36:52.000 We began to accumulate wealth.

00:36:54.000 We began to carry on commerce and trade.

00:36:57.000 After this 300 years of dark ages where learning receded into the monasteries and life was very unpleasant, very short, very brutal, very unpleasant.

00:37:09.000 Now we had this warming period.

00:37:12.000 With the expansion of agriculture and the abundant food supply and the prolific harvests, people were getting strong, healthy again.

00:37:23.000 Stature, and it's been well documented that during this two or three hundred years of the medieval warming period, human stature actually increased by inches, average human size.

00:37:35.000 By 1150, This accumulated wealth that had ensued from the benign climate of the medieval warm period is what allowed the great cathedral building era.

00:37:52.000 To ensue, which began between 1130 and 1150 A.D. And what we see is these magnificent cathedrals.

00:37:59.000 Have you been to Europe and visited any of the cathedrals?

00:38:02.000 Put that on your to-do list.

00:38:03.000 Get there and look at some of these extraordinary works of art that were Built during the High Gothic or High Middle Ages between, like I said, about 1150 and the early 1300s.

00:38:16.000 They built about 80 of these gigantic, magnificent cathedrals that required the organizing of thousands of Highly, highly skilled craftsmen.

00:38:31.000 Armies of workers and craftsmen.

00:38:34.000 You had stonemasons and carpenters and glaziers and astronomers and geometricians and all of these people brought together to create these incredible cathedrals.

00:38:45.000 And it was made possible by the fact that European society had become relatively wealthy.

00:38:51.000 And this wealth was brought on by this global warmth.

00:38:55.000 Right?

00:38:56.000 Now what we see...

00:38:57.000 Go ahead to the end of this magnificent Gothic building boom.

00:39:02.000 And by the way, there's about 500 smaller abbeys that were constructed during this interval.

00:39:09.000 This was a very prolific time for a number of reasons.

00:39:11.000 This was a time that you had the Templar Knights forming.

00:39:14.000 You've probably heard of the Templar Knights, I'm sure.

00:39:18.000 You had schools of Kabbalah being founded in Spain, and you had the rise of Catharism. 0.76

00:39:24.000 You had the Troubadours.

00:39:26.000 You had these amazing spiritual things going on.

00:39:32.000 Amazing.

00:39:33.000 Culturally, it was a very extraordinary time, those high Middle Ages.

00:39:37.000 Well, a lot of those Gothic cathedrals were never finished.

00:39:40.000 And what we see is that some of them have the appearance, you know, I'm a builder by profession.

00:39:47.000 And, you know, I've looked at some of these and what it's very much like is they're going along building and then all of a sudden one day nobody shows up to work.

00:39:56.000 And there's still tools laying around, there's still materials that are often a pile that were waiting to be incorporated into the structure.

00:40:04.000 And what happened was that the climate began to cool again between 1315 and 1320. Precisely when we see the end of this tremendous gothic building boom is when the climate began to cool.

00:40:19.000 And it cooled for the next several decades.

00:40:21.000 And what we then see is a repeat of what happened between 536 and 542 AD. Agricultural collapses, crops rotting in the fields, people going hungry, I think it was around between 1340 and 1345,

00:40:38.000 the onset of the Black Plague.

00:40:40.000 And once again, the population of Europe was decimated.

00:40:44.000 And it took 150 years basically to recover from that.

00:40:49.000 And what we see is that what was happening is the planet was shifting into what's called the Little Ice Age.

00:40:55.000 You probably heard that term, the Little Ice Age, right?

00:40:57.000 There was two phases to the Little Ice Age, and the first phase began, like I said, around 1320, lasted about 150 years, and then there was a break.

00:41:07.000 And it was during that break, that warm period, that basically the Renaissance kicked in, and we began to really move forward.

00:41:14.000 The second phase of the Little Ice Age came in during the 1600s, and it was actually even colder than the first phase.

00:41:22.000 And worldwide, glaciers expanded to the largest they had been in 10,000 to 12,000 years, since the end of the Big Ice Age.

00:41:31.000 Throughout the whole Holocene, glaciers had been smaller.

00:41:35.000 Now during the Little Ice Age, they grew.

00:41:38.000 And they grew to the biggest that they've been in 10,000 years.

00:41:42.000 It's important to have that context of understanding when we talk about glacier recession.

00:41:47.000 Because the glaciers began to recede around the middle of the 19th century, worldwide, as the Little Ice Age began to wane and global warmth began to return to the planet.

00:41:59.000 This happened in the mid-1800s.

00:42:02.000 Around 1840 to 1860, we see the Little Ice Age coming to an end.

00:42:07.000 And at that point, the glaciers worldwide began to recede.

00:42:10.000 They began to contract.

00:42:12.000 They've been pretty much contracting uniformly since then.

00:42:16.000 So when we're talking about Glacier Recession, it's important to understand that the Glacier Recession really began a century and a half ago or more, and has basically continued more or less uniformly since then, With no real change with the advent of human fossil fuel to the atmosphere,

00:42:38.000 human carbon dioxide, which began really in earnest during the Second World War, is when we begin to add significant amounts of carbon dioxide to the atmosphere.

00:42:49.000 It's important to realize that the glaciers had been receding almost a full century before that point.

00:42:57.000 So when you see all this modern hysteria about global warming and the human-created global warming that we keep hearing about in the news and our influence on the atmosphere, does it drive you crazy?

00:43:13.000 I mean, do you think it's silly?

00:43:15.000 Obviously human beings are contributing to the carbon footprint, right?

00:43:18.000 Obviously, yes.

00:43:19.000 And obviously that has an effect on global warming. 0.68

00:43:23.000 Yes.

00:43:24.000 Now, but you've got to bear in mind that carbon dioxide is only one variable in a very complex equation.

00:43:30.000 There are many factors influencing climate, of which carbon dioxide is only one.

00:43:36.000 My problem with so much of the stuff that's coming out in mainstream media, which is coming through the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, is simply that when they were instituted back in the early 90s by the United Nations, the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change,

00:43:54.000 basically gave them a mandate, which is demonstrate that humans are causing climate change.

00:44:00.000 Right?

00:44:00.000 So they focused exclusively on carbon dioxide, but there's all kinds of other things going on.

00:44:06.000 For example, cosmic rays are constantly bombarding the Earth, right?

00:44:11.000 Cosmic rays produce clouds.

00:44:15.000 The more the cosmic rays penetrate the atmosphere, the more low altitude cloud cover there is.

00:44:23.000 Low-altitude clouds reflect heat back into space.

00:44:27.000 Now, the amount of cosmic rays penetrating the atmosphere is a function of a couple of things.

00:44:32.000 You've got the heliosphere, which is essentially the energy envelope of the Sun, which encompasses the whole solar system.

00:44:42.000 The Sun actually is fairly variable.

00:44:46.000 And what that means is that when the solar wind is in a more intense phase, like when the sunspots, for example, are very active, the solar wind is much stronger.

00:45:00.000 What that does is it serves as a buffer that prevents cosmic rays from penetrating the atmosphere of the Earth.

00:45:08.000 as strongly as they did previously.

00:45:11.000 Also the geomagnetic field of the earth acts as a buffer.

00:45:14.000 So here's two things that are completely Not included in the scenarios of the IPCC, but probably have a very profound effect on global climate.

00:45:27.000 The Earth's geomagnetic field is, you know, probably know that the geomagnetic field has periodically throughout Earth's history disappeared completely.

00:45:36.000 Sometimes it's disappeared and come back with reverse polarity.

00:45:39.000 Well, that geomagnetic field acts as a buffer.

00:45:44.000 Which helps to reduce the amount of cosmic rays penetrating the atmosphere.

00:45:49.000 How has it disappeared completely?

00:45:51.000 I don't know.

00:45:52.000 And I don't know if really anybody knows.

00:45:54.000 I haven't kept up with all of the most recent research on geomagnetism.

00:45:58.000 But you know, when you go out and you hold a little compass in your hand and it points to north, right?

00:46:03.000 Right.

00:46:03.000 Okay, that's the geomagnetic field that's being measured by the compass.

00:46:08.000 It's moving.

00:46:09.000 It's fluctuating.

00:46:10.000 And for whatever reason, throughout the history of the Earth, it has completely disappeared at some points and has reversed polarity.

00:46:19.000 It was the reversing of the polarity of the geomagnetic field that helped prove the reality of continental drift.

00:46:27.000 Because as the mid-Atlantic ridge separates and lava flows out, it crystallizes and locked into the crystalline structure of the lava is the direction of the magnetic field and the polarity of the magnetic field is imprinted in there.

00:46:46.000 If you look at the research going back to the 1950s, they realized that you had stripes effectively as you moved away from the mid-Atlantic ridge.

00:46:57.000 As the lava flowed out and crystallized, locked in the geomagnetic field, they looked at it and they could see that there were times when it had completely reversed itself.

00:47:08.000 And so this was like very powerful evidence that the theory of continental drift was right.

00:47:16.000 The Atlantic Ocean had been spreading.

00:47:19.000 And getting back to this whole Atlantis thing, which is interesting to me, is because when you look at Reed Plato's account, he describes Atlantis as being west of the Pillars of Heracles, which of course is the Straits of Gibraltar, the mouth of the Mediterranean.

00:47:36.000 He describes how if you go, you come to some islands, then you come to some more islands, and that was the island complex of Atlantis, and beyond that was another whole continent.

00:47:47.000 He describes that, right?

00:47:49.000 If you look in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, you've got the Azores Plateau.

00:47:53.000 Which is now a couple of thousand feet under the sea.

00:47:57.000 The Azor Islands are the tops of mountains that emerge from the surface of the ocean, right?

00:48:07.000 And they sit right on the Atlantic, the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.

00:48:12.000 Now the Mid-Atlantic Ridge Some of the thinnest crust on the planet, right?

00:48:18.000 And it's like a giant suture or a giant crack that runs up halfway around the planet.

00:48:24.000 Well, when you have an ice age and you start piling ice up onto like the North American continent, What happens is the weight of that ice begins to crush the crust of the earth down into the mantle.

00:48:39.000 It's called isostasy, which is a vertical movement.

00:48:43.000 You know, continental drift is horizontal, isostasy is vertical.

00:48:47.000 Now it's just like right now, you're sitting on that soft chair, right? 0.99

00:48:52.000 And your ass is creating a depression in the cushion of the chair, right? 1.00

00:48:55.000 That's isostatic depression. 1.00

00:48:57.000 You didn't realize that, did you?

00:48:59.000 No. 1.00

00:48:59.000 That your ass is creating isostatic depression, right? 1.00

00:49:03.000 And when you get up, And you walk away, then you will have isostatic compensation. 0.99

00:49:07.000 You'll have isostatic rebound because the cushion will now rise because the weight has been removed.

00:49:13.000 It's the same thing with the ice mass on the continent.

00:49:16.000 The ice mass was hundreds of billions of trillions of tons of ice.

00:49:22.000 It pressed the center of the North American continent, or the center of at least Canada, down perhaps as much as several thousand feet into the mantle.

00:49:32.000 With the removal of that ice, the land begins to rebound.

00:49:37.000 Hudson Bay is the depression left over from the thickest part of the ice, right?

00:49:43.000 Now, there are photographs.

00:49:45.000 We could probably even pull some up here in a minute.

00:49:47.000 There are photographs taken where you can see the elevated shorelines surrounding Hudson Bay because it's still rising, right?

00:49:55.000 What's interesting too is if you look at the distance between these shorelines, you'll see that Early on, there's a greater distance because the land was rising faster.

00:50:08.000 As the millennia have gone on, the distance separating each shoreline has diminished.

00:50:13.000 But now you have to think that all of that weight is being transferred back into the ocean basins.

00:50:19.000 A lot of it was dumped directly into the Atlantic Ocean, either via like the St. Lawrence River up there, the Hudson River up in the New York area, or via the Mississippi River into the Gulf of Mexico.

00:50:32.000 Now you've got all this water dumping back into the ocean.

00:50:35.000 Like I said, ocean levels are coming up hundreds of feet, right?

00:50:39.000 So now you're adding all of this weight to the ocean basin.

00:50:42.000 And now you've got the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, which is some of the thinnest crust on the earth, right?

00:50:48.000 This is what it's doing.

00:50:50.000 It's like a hinge line, right?

00:50:52.000 So now, you picture, during a glacial age, when the weight is taken out, it does this.

00:50:58.000 Lifts up.

00:50:59.000 Lifts up.

00:51:00.000 Folks listening, not watching.

00:51:01.000 Yeah.

00:51:02.000 When the ice melts, the water goes in, sea level rises, it subsides, right?

00:51:08.000 Now, you look at the Azores Plateau as a chunk of the African plate that got left over when the continents separated around 70 to 80 million years ago, right?

00:51:21.000 You've seen the maps and showing how you can fit the continents together.

00:51:25.000 Yeah.

00:51:26.000 If you fit these back together, if you reverse continental drift Go back about 70 or 80 million years, and it all fits together like a piece of the puzzle.

00:51:35.000 But when it's separated, a piece of the African plate got left behind.

00:51:41.000 And this is what is the Azores Plateau.

00:51:43.000 And it sits right there astride the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.

00:51:46.000 It's maybe a little bit smaller than Iceland, which is considered to be an island, but a pretty good-sized island, right?

00:51:55.000 If you're doing this, and you have as much as 2,000 or 3,000 feet or maybe more of this vertical movement, right, and you add to that the 400 feet of sea level rise, now you can, I think, begin to get a scientific rationale for how you may have had a large island in the mid-Atlantic Back during the Ice Age.

00:52:15.000 Also, additional evidence has suggested that the Gulf Stream, which now basically brings subtropical warmth up to Northwestern Europe.

00:52:26.000 I mean, if you were to terminate the Gulf Stream, England would have some pretty malignant times.

00:52:35.000 So would Northwestern Europe because the warmth is being brought up by that Gulf Stream, right?

00:52:41.000 Well, during the Ice Age, the Gulf Stream diverted to the south at about 45 to 46 degrees, which was hundreds of miles farther south than it now goes.

00:52:51.000 So essentially, if you look at the Azores Plateau, a big chunk of that Azores Plateau would have been above sea level during the Ice Age, and that Gulf Stream, with its warmth, would have just basically embraced it, see?

00:53:04.000 So if you suddenly, Joe, found yourself transported mysteriously back to the Ice Age, That's probably where you might want to go, is the Azores Plateau.

00:53:13.000 It might have been one of the most benign places on Earth to live during the Ice Age.

00:53:17.000 And if there was a place where civilization could evolve, that would be a very logical place for it to occur.

00:53:24.000 There's nothing really pseudoscientific now about assuming that there could have been some type of historic reality behind these stories of Atlantis.

00:53:34.000 Of course, the problem is the woo-woo factor that has gotten so grafted onto these stories, but You know, crystals and aliens and flying ships.

00:53:44.000 I mean, we don't know, but we don't have any hard evidence.

00:53:47.000 But the hard evidence does suggest that there could have been some very benign, habitable islands, large islands in the Mid-Atlantic during the Ice Age.

00:53:57.000 Wow.

00:53:59.000 That's intense.

00:54:01.000 That's so incredible.

00:54:03.000 It's so crazy to think How much things have changed while human beings have been here.

00:54:10.000 The idea that during Gobekli Tepe, which is 12,000 years ago, that North America was covered with ice.

00:54:18.000 And this was when these people in Turkey had created this incredible structure.

00:54:24.000 So when you see this, the modern hysteria about global warming, which has really essentially been like a wrestling match between the left and the right.

00:54:33.000 It's this weird thing where the right wants to support like burning coal and they don't want to diminish the economy by putting all these environmental regulations on natural resources.

00:54:46.000 And then the left, which is screaming at the top of their lungs that the sky is falling, the oceans are going to rise, and people are going to drown.

00:54:53.000 When you know so much about what has happened over the course of the Earth, when you've studied this for a great deal of time like you have, what is your take on all this stuff?

00:55:05.000 Well, I guess my take is fairly simple.

00:55:10.000 I tend to think that, you know, if you look at the whole process of, if you look at the carbon cycle, for example, what you see there is interesting.

00:55:21.000 If you can, talk to this as much as possible so we can have as little variation in the tone as possible.

00:55:27.000 Thank you.

00:55:28.000 You know, putting this into context, we have to say right now we're approaching 400 parts per million of the ambient amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.

00:55:40.000 At the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, it was about 100 parts per million less.

00:55:46.000 You could say basically that over the last century we have increased the amount of CO2, measurable CO2, into the atmosphere, assuming that it's all from us now.

00:55:55.000 I mean, there's questions about that too, because if there are other factors inducing global warming, such as changes in solar irradiance, the amount of insulation penetrating the atmosphere and so on, it means that the oceans are warming as a result of that.

00:56:10.000 Oceans are a gigantic carbon dioxide sink.

00:56:13.000 When they're warm, they exude carbon dioxide.

00:56:17.000 When they're cold, they absorb it, right?

00:56:20.000 So if you have a natural warming, it's going to expel some carbon dioxide.

00:56:25.000 So it's not even clear necessarily that that 100 parts per million is totally the result of fossil fuel burning.

00:56:32.000 But for the sake of argument, let's say that it is, okay?

00:56:36.000 100 parts per million, that's Minuscule trace of this very important constituents of our atmosphere.

00:56:44.000 You know that carbon dioxide is what fuels photosynthesis, right?

00:56:49.000 And if you start reducing the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and you start, once you start dropping below 200 parts per million and you get down to about 150 to 100, photosynthesis, plant photosynthesis starts shutting down.

00:57:02.000 I mean, it's kind of like the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere right now is at the very bottom of the scale.

00:57:09.000 You know, if we look at history going back when you mentioned the Cretaceous Tertiary, when the dinosaurs ruled, There have been many times more the amount of CO2 up to well in excess of a thousand parts per million, several thousand parts per million in the atmosphere.

00:57:27.000 But if we have increased the amount of CO2 by 100 parts per million in a hundred years, it means we've, for every million molecules of air up there, we add one molecule of CO2 every year.

00:57:43.000 Or to maybe try to make it a little bit more comprehensible.

00:57:47.000 If for every hundred thousand molecules of air up there, every ten years we add one molecule of CO2. I'm not convinced that that's going to lead to global catastrophe.

00:58:01.000 I mean, think of it this way.

00:58:02.000 You've got a huge tank with a hundred thousand fish in it.

00:58:05.000 Every ten years you throw in one more fish.

00:58:08.000 Are you even going to notice that?

00:58:11.000 You know, I think that what's happened is that CO2, like I said, is one variable in a very complex equation.

00:58:17.000 But all of the other variables, as far as the government-funded research goes, have been excluded from the debate.

00:58:26.000 And what disbays me Is that we're told that all scientists agree on this.

00:58:33.000 No, all scientists don't agree.

00:58:34.000 When you have, though, a major government-funded program, like climate change research, which is funded to the tune of about $2 billion per year, You're going to have a large vested interest in basically...

00:58:52.000 I mean, if these guys came out and said, nah, CO2 is really not a big deal.

00:58:57.000 It's perhaps fueling plant growth.

00:59:02.000 This is an interesting aside.

00:59:22.000 If you look at those projections back in the 50s and 60s, and then you realize that in the ensuing period of time, we've now got exhaustive, highly accurate satellite surveys that can actually count the number of hectares of forests What's interesting is in the 90s when they really started looking at this data of just how much forest there was compared to what the projections were,

00:59:46.000 there was like 25 to 40 percent more forests worldwide than anybody had predicted.

00:59:54.000 What fueled this prolific forest growth?

00:59:57.000 Well, it's very likely that at least part of it was because of the slight increase in CO2 as a result of our fossil fuel burning.

01:00:08.000 Now, we put in, every year we burn about, introduce into the atmosphere about 6 billion tons of CO2. Well, there's about 750 or 760 billion tons of CO2 in the atmosphere naturally.

01:00:24.000 And at least a third of that is cycling through from atmosphere into the biosphere into the oceans and so on.

01:00:32.000 So our contribution isn't really that significant.

01:00:36.000 But another part of the argument is that, and this has been admitted right in the IPCC reports, is that based on the amount of fossil fuel that we're burning, there should be twice as much CO2 into the atmosphere, in the atmosphere, as we're now measuring.

01:00:53.000 So what they have been talking about for about 15 years now is where's the missing carbon?

01:00:59.000 What's this missing carbon sink?

01:01:01.000 Well, probably some of it's going into the ocean, but most likely a lot of it is going into fueling plant growth and forest growth worldwide.

01:01:09.000 And there's a lot of studies that are beginning to come out now that shows that perhaps some of the desert areas of the planet, rather than expanding, are actually contracting.

01:01:21.000 So, you know, at this point, there's a lot of things we still have to learn.

01:01:26.000 When it comes down to understanding the climate, we're in the infancy.

01:01:31.000 You can't talk to a single climatologist and come up with one single coherent answer or agreement on what has actually provoked the planet to go into a full ice age or what has caused it to come out of an ice age.

01:01:44.000 If you don't know that, We still have a hell of a lot to learn about how the climate works.

01:01:51.000 So, I get really frustrated when I hear this claim that the debate is over.

01:01:55.000 The debate is over.

01:01:56.000 Because the debate hasn't really even begun yet.

01:01:59.000 You see, we need to really look at all of these other factors as well.

01:02:04.000 I mean, when you look at wind currents and ocean currents, you have the El Nino Southern Oscillation, you have the Indian Ocean Dipole, you have the Pacific Decadal Oscillation.

01:02:15.000 All of these things have a very profound influence on the climate.

01:02:18.000 But they're essentially being ignored within the Within the government-funded science, to a large extent.

01:02:26.000 And you have a lot of scientists who have objected to some of the claims of certainty made by the IPCC scientists.

01:02:35.000 And for the most part, the left likes to demonize them.

01:02:39.000 This is people like, I think, probably the leading demon of climate deniers is Fred Singer because he once was given a $10,000 unsolicited donation from Exxon years and years ago.

01:02:54.000 But you've got guys like Roy Spencer and Craig and Sherwood Idso and Robert Balling and Timothy Ball and the list goes on and on.

01:03:03.000 These are distinguished climate scientists that have devoted their lives to understanding Climate science, who say, well, there's a lot of flaws in the methodology of the IPCC. But by saying that, now they have entered the spawn of hell,

01:03:18.000 according to the left.

01:03:21.000 Now, and you're right, see what happened, it's turned into a political football.

01:03:25.000 It's an ideological debate.

01:03:26.000 It's an ideological debate, a political debate, and it's just too bad that the science of the thing has had to suffer in the consequence.

01:03:35.000 It is fascinating because even hearing you say this, I'm thinking.

01:03:40.000 It starts popping triggers. 0.99

01:03:42.000 I'm not the type of person that worries too much about being labeled because I've been labeled a million times already as an idiot. 0.98

01:03:49.000 It doesn't bother me to start... 0.92

01:03:54.000 Contemplating the possibilities of controversial ideas.

01:03:57.000 But when I'm listening to you saying this, all I'm hearing is the knee-jerk reaction of climate denier.

01:04:04.000 Oh, he's a climate denier.

01:04:06.000 This guy's a climate denier. 0.99

01:04:07.000 And seeing these fucking things that we've... 0.99

01:04:10.000 grown to be accustomed to on television, where you have a guy on the left who has one point of view, and a guy on the right who says something wacky, and then everybody fights about it. 1.00

01:04:21.000 And then the YouTube clips, you look at the comments, and it's filled with, this guy's a faggot, and that guy's a faggot, this guy, you eat shit, I hope your house goes underwater, you fucking climate denier. 1.00

01:04:32.000 And when I'm listening to you, and this podcast has been over an hour already, and It's incredibly complex. 1.00

01:04:41.000 We have barely scratched the surface and you're never going to hear anything like this on any television show because most people feel that the general public does not have the attention span to absorb all of this information.

01:04:54.000 This really complex explanation of the known science of the changing of the atmosphere of the earth.

01:05:02.000 So when people start talking about Climate denying and what is going on with climate change, what they're really doing is establishing their position on what side?

01:05:15.000 I'm a rational person who believes in science and education, but how much of this have you actually explored?

01:05:24.000 How much of it has anybody actually looked at?

01:05:26.000 Well, I'm a person who supports industry, and I'm a person who believes the United States needs to recover from our Economic disaster, and if we've got to frack a few wells, so be it!

01:05:39.000 There's these two very distinct and oftentimes shallow ideological perspectives.

01:05:45.000 And when I say shallow, I mean shallow from the point of the general public, a person like me who's not a scientist, observing it and just picking a side.

01:05:54.000 Very little information, really.

01:05:57.000 I would like to grab the average person, the average lefty, and the average righty that thinks that they have an opinion on global change, and just do me a favor and just write down what you know.

01:06:09.000 Just write down.

01:06:10.000 I don't want you looking online.

01:06:11.000 Do you have an opinion?

01:06:13.000 Write down what you know. 1.00

01:06:14.000 You know dog shit! 1.00

01:06:16.000 Most people know dog shit! 1.00

01:06:19.000 It's true. 1.00

01:06:20.000 It's true, Joe.

01:06:21.000 It's so fascinating.

01:06:22.000 It's so fascinating to me because it becomes another one of those things.

01:06:26.000 Ideology is...

01:06:27.000 I mean, I don't remember who said it, but it's the enemy of free thinking.

01:06:32.000 You get in these ideological clusters, and then anything outside of this thing, these predetermined patterns of behavior that you've subscribed to, anything becomes...

01:06:45.000 Forbidden.

01:06:46.000 You can't even entertain it.

01:06:49.000 You can't even approach the idea.

01:06:51.000 You see it with everything.

01:06:53.000 You see it with atheism.

01:06:54.000 You see it with any isms, with feminism, with men's rights. 0.88

01:07:01.000 You see it with With people who subscribe to the right, people who subscribe to the left, any variables that don't fit into their equation that they've already subscribed to, they don't want to be labeled as that other side.

01:07:13.000 And any time they don't want to be labeled, they start ignoring any evidence or any ideas that don't fit within this really rigid description.

01:07:23.000 That's exactly right.

01:07:24.000 I mean, you hit the nail on the head, Joe.

01:07:27.000 We're so weird.

01:07:28.000 That's exactly right.

01:07:28.000 People are so weird.

01:07:29.000 People get locked into these ideological paradigms and then from that point on basically their perspective is modified more by emotion and rationality.

01:07:38.000 More by their feelings rather than real information.

01:07:43.000 And it's too bad.

01:07:45.000 I mean, I don't know what to blame it on.

01:07:47.000 Maybe the fact that the government runs all the schools.

01:07:50.000 I don't know.

01:07:51.000 You know, the government monopolizes the education system, so they're not teaching people critical thinking skills.

01:07:56.000 They're not teaching people how to actually become, how to be scientifically literate, which is really sad.

01:08:05.000 But, you know, it's like, you know, we keep hearing the term climate change denier, right?

01:08:12.000 Well, There's no such thing.

01:08:14.000 I don't think you're going to find a single climate scientist of any persuasion that denies that the climate is changing.

01:08:22.000 And you've got to realize that the terminology has shifted.

01:08:25.000 It was global warming originally.

01:08:28.000 When James Hansen gave his testimony before Congress in the summer of 1988, you know, and proposed these potential tipping points and catastrophic outcomes of our burning of fossil fuel, We've gone from there to the United Nations getting involved and the United Nations setting up the whole – the IPCC and channeling all of this funding to it.

01:08:53.000 And I think the consequence is that, you know, when you say – again, excuse me.

01:09:00.000 We went from global warming to climate change.

01:09:04.000 Why do they not really use global warming as a term anymore?

01:09:08.000 It's mainly because for 15 years, the average global temperature has flatlined.

01:09:13.000 And this is based upon, you know, the most accurate satellite surveys.

01:09:18.000 The IPCC generally focuses only on ground-based sensors, which are subjected to perhaps some considerable bias.

01:09:26.000 Because, you know, you picture ground-based sensors, most of them are sitting at airports.

01:09:30.000 When these things were being put in post-World War II, The bulk of them, 40s and 50s into the 60s, many of these airports were rural.

01:09:39.000 They were, you know, adjacent to small towns.

01:09:42.000 They were surrounded by fields and farms, forests.

01:09:45.000 What's happened is the urban area has encroached.

01:09:49.000 When you create streets, pavement, buildings, all of this absorbs heat, right?

01:09:56.000 And no one has really done an exhaustive study of the potential bias that's introduced into the ground-based sensors.

01:10:05.000 That at least part of the warming of these ground-based sensors may have nothing to do with carbon dioxide at all.

01:10:12.000 It may just have to do with the fact that they're sitting next to a huge parking lot.

01:10:16.000 I mean, you know yourself, if you're walking in a field and then you walk onto an asphalt parking lot, immediately it's much, much hotter.

01:10:27.000 You see, Anthony Watts, who's another one of the dissenters who's demonized, is the only one who has really attempted to exhaustively document the accuracy of the ground-based sensors.

01:10:42.000 And what he's come up with is that perhaps as much as 30 to 50 percent of the perceived warming of the last century, which is about eight-tenths of a degree centigrade, It's probably as a result of that bias that's been introduced by what's called the urban heat island effect.

01:11:02.000 LA has an urban heat island mitigation program underway.

01:11:07.000 All of the major metropolitan cities are now trying to mitigate the effects of this Because of all of the cement and the buildings and the pavement and the parking lots, they're always hotter than the surrounding rural areas.

01:11:24.000 So the question has been legitimately raised, how much of a bias has been introduced into the into the ground-based sensors.

01:11:32.000 Well, when we turn to the balloon sensors, the radiosonde balloon sensors and the satellite sensors, basically what they're showing is that the average global temperature has been flat for 15 years.

01:11:44.000 Well, because of that, and many of the key scientists like Phil Jones of the IPCC has basically publicly admitted, yeah, When you look at the average temperature from that perspective, it hasn't warmed in 15. Now,

01:12:00.000 there are regional pockets of warming and records being set all the time because local conditions will affect change enormously.

01:12:10.000 Just like I was talking about the urban heat island effect is a local or regional condition.

01:12:16.000 But because of the fact that the climate hasn't warmed statistically significantly in 15 years, Now, we don't talk about global warming, we talk about climate change.

01:12:29.000 But those two terms are not interchangeable.

01:12:32.000 Global warming is a very specific model of climate change, which is that you've got this 15 micron wavelength of CO2 in the atmosphere that's trapping infrared radiation emanating from the Earth,

01:12:47.000 right?

01:12:48.000 Okay, but if you're talking about climate change, now suddenly You know, our umbrella goes much, much huger, and it now encompasses all of these other things that I was talking about.

01:12:59.000 And to question the consensus idea, to question that CO2 is the primary or sole driver of climate, is not to be a climate change denier, see?

01:13:12.000 Because no, I would challenge anybody who even uses that term, well, show me an example of any climate scientist, no matter where they fall in the argument, That is denying that the climate is changing.

01:13:24.000 I mean, anybody who has studied the climate at all knows that it has changed dramatically and dynamically on any scale you can look at, whether it's the decadal scale, the centennial, or millennial, or beyond.

01:13:36.000 It changes on every level, and that's the thing we have to recognize, that if we stop burning fossil fuels tomorrow, we didn't drive another car, we shut down all the coal plants, I'm going to tell you this, the climate would not stop changing.

01:13:54.000 When you see a story, like here's one, it's in the news, about U.S. Senator Marco Rubio's denial of man-made climate change should play well with his Tea Party base, whose support he'll need if he indeed runs for president in 2016. But in taking this position,

01:14:14.000 Florida's junior Republican senator ignores the vast majority of the world's climate scientists who say human activity is contributing to climate change and rising sea levels.

01:14:24.000 Human activity is contributing to climate change.

01:14:27.000 No doubt.

01:14:28.000 There's no doubt that human activity contributes to climate change.

01:14:32.000 Human activity, again, is one variable in a very complex equation.

01:14:36.000 I wish Marco Rubio would keep his mouth shut until he goes and spends about six months or a year really doing the homework, because then he could talk a little bit more intelligently about it.

01:14:49.000 But that is the problem, right?

01:14:50.000 It really does take that long.

01:14:52.000 It does.

01:14:53.000 I know you, what did I mean, six, seven years ago?

01:14:57.000 Something like that, yeah.

01:14:58.000 And you had already spent decades observing the effects of climate change and of asteroidal impacts and the history of these things.

01:15:09.000 I mean, the amount of time just absorbing the information so you could rattle it off like this in a podcast. 0.99

01:15:15.000 I mean, what the fuck got you into this? 0.99

01:15:17.000 How did you get down this rabbit hole? 1.00

01:15:19.000 Yeah.

01:15:22.000 Well, this is an odd rabbit hole, right?

01:15:25.000 It's an odd rabbit hole.

01:15:26.000 It's a fascinating rabbit hole.

01:15:27.000 I'm so thankful not only that you've gone down, but that you're willing to exchange this information with us or impart it on us because it's...

01:15:36.000 It's a very different perspective because I know you're not a right-wing lunatic, you're a very science-based guy, but you're looking at this and the way you're explaining it is incredibly rational and incredibly frustrating to me that there's not that many people that are saying this.

01:15:54.000 Well, the upside, I think, of the whole global warming issue or the climate change issue is this, that The thing is, I made the point that even if we stopped all fossil fuel consumption tomorrow, the climate is still going to change.

01:16:11.000 And it's going to change dramatically, it's going to change sometimes even catastrophically.

01:16:16.000 What we need to do from here on out is basically think about strategies of adaptability.

01:16:21.000 If, as a result of this whole issue, even though I think it's mis-based, misapplied, if part of it that comes out of this is that we begin to develop strategies of adaptability, that would be a good thing.

01:16:38.000 If, however, we focus so exclusively on carbon dioxide to the exclusion of everything else, that could be a bad thing.

01:16:47.000 Because the climate is going to change.

01:16:49.000 No matter what we do or where we go with it, the climate is going to change.

01:16:53.000 So you can put up solar panels until the cows come home.

01:16:56.000 The houses that are on the beach in Malibu are still going to be underwater in 100 years.

01:17:00.000 Well, not necessarily.

01:17:02.000 Not necessarily.

01:17:02.000 So buy real estate in Malibu.

01:17:05.000 Well, see, the thing is, if you look at the...

01:17:09.000 I mentioned earlier that there was a break in the Little Ice Age of about 150 years that basically led to the Renaissance, right?

01:17:17.000 Well, we've been in a recession of the Little Ice Age, an interruption of the Little Ice Age for about 150 years.

01:17:26.000 And right now, you know, and again, the IPC, one of the things that frustrates me is that they basically exclude solar physicists and solar scientists who are essentially saying that insulation levels, insulation, the amount of solar energy penetrating the atmosphere, is at one of the lowest levels in thousands of years.

01:17:45.000 And I mean, there are solar physicists that are saying, you know what, we could be at the beginning of another phase of the Little Ice Age.

01:17:53.000 Now, if our CO2 is helping to ameliorate somewhat a return to the Little Ice Age, that would be a good thing. 0.82

01:18:03.000 So, muscle cars are green.

01:18:05.000 That's what I'm getting out of this.

01:18:07.000 Coal and muscle cars are good for the forest.

01:18:10.000 Well, the problem with coal is not so much the CO2. To me, it's just the particulate matter.

01:18:16.000 Right.

01:18:17.000 That's a different question altogether.

01:18:18.000 The pollution.

01:18:19.000 The pollution.

01:18:20.000 Which is horrific in China when they have these coal plants.

01:18:23.000 You see these people that are essentially walking.

01:18:25.000 It looks like they're in the middle of a forest fire.

01:18:27.000 They're walking down the street and it's just dark everywhere.

01:18:29.000 See, that's a different issue.

01:18:31.000 Right.

01:18:32.000 And I consider myself a conservationist in the respect that we basically need examples of pristine nature, because ultimately nature is the most powerful teacher.

01:18:48.000 And we need examples.

01:18:50.000 We need places where nature is just left alone to do its thing without interference of human beings.

01:18:55.000 We need clean air. 0.98

01:18:57.000 Nobody has the right to dump shit in the air that other people have to breathe. 0.99

01:19:01.000 Nobody has the right to dump shit in the water that other people have to drink. 0.98

01:19:05.000 To me, those are different questions and really where the more of our focus should be rather than these abstractions. 0.96

01:19:13.000 I have found, of course, I've gotten some flack over the last few years by saying some of the things I've been saying here, you know, that I've had people stand up and accuse me.

01:19:22.000 You say we can just do anything we want.

01:19:24.000 We can just destroy the earth.

01:19:26.000 Which, of course, is not the case.

01:19:28.000 You're not saying that at all?

01:19:29.000 Not saying that at all.

01:19:30.000 And when we begin to look at the bigger context of this thing, and we begin to understand the extraordinary changes that this planet has been through, and even some of the lesser things in recent years, Mount St. Helens, you remember when that erupted in 1980?

01:19:46.000 Tens of thousands of acres were turned into a lunar landscape, right?

01:19:51.000 Well, if you read the Accounts of the scientists, the biologists, the zoologists, the ecologists that have been studying what happened to that decimated landscape in the aftermath.

01:20:04.000 What you find out is they're surprised and almost shocked at how quickly nature recovered from that.

01:20:12.000 And how quickly, you know, colonizer plants moved in and was followed by the whole succession, the ecological succession of reclaiming that land.

01:20:24.000 If you look at the Exxon Valdez disaster up in In Alaska.

01:20:33.000 That was, over the short term, devastating to the local ecology.

01:20:37.000 And yet, what's interesting, again, there have been several books written by some of the lead scientists involved in that.

01:20:45.000 I'm talking about how remarkably quick nature began to reclaim and recover from that.

01:20:50.000 And here's some irony.

01:20:52.000 Where the government forced Exxon to go in and do its cleanup has actually suffered more than the areas that were just left alone For nature to reclaim.

01:21:02.000 That's fascinating.

01:21:03.000 So the chemicals that they used in order to break up, that was the issue with the Gulf as well, right?

01:21:09.000 With those dispersants that they were spraying over the area?

01:21:13.000 They probably should have just left the Gulf alone.

01:21:15.000 Because, you know, when you have submarine earthquakes, they can expel huge amounts of hydrocarbons into the ocean.

01:21:25.000 Nature has been dealing with massive expulsions of hydrocarbon Into the oceans and into the marine ecologies for millions and millions of years.

01:21:36.000 You know, it was bad.

01:21:37.000 But I think, you know, what we'll see is that the recovery time has been faster than most people believed possible.

01:21:46.000 You see, I think what's really going to Um, turn out in the end, looking at all this is that nature is robust.

01:21:53.000 And when we begin to look at the number of times that nature has been disrupted by, we've been talking about asteroids and comets and here's, here's a perspective for you.

01:22:05.000 You know, at the peak of the cold war, When U.S. and the Soviet Union were eyeball to eyeball with our nuclear weapons on high alert, and we had 10,000 weapons on our side,

01:22:20.000 they had 10,000 weapons on their side.

01:22:23.000 The total nuclear arsenal at the times had about 18,000 megatons of energy.

01:22:32.000 Capable of being delivered.

01:22:34.000 18,000 megatons.

01:22:35.000 Now that means 18 million tons of TNT. The bomb that destroyed Hiroshima was about 10,000 tons of TNT. So a hundred times, a hundred Hiroshima bombs would be one megaton,

01:22:51.000 right?

01:22:52.000 Now, there was about say 15 to 18,000 megatons total in the arsenal of the superpowers during the height of the Cold War.

01:23:01.000 Had we unleashed an all-out nuclear war and fired every warhead that we had in our arsenals at each other, 15,000 warheads, you know, 20,000 warheads, 15,000 megatons,

01:23:17.000 it would have been an environmental disaster unprecedented in history.

01:23:21.000 You remember the scenarios about nuclear winter, right?

01:23:24.000 Because of all of the fires and the soot and the particulate matter thrown into the atmosphere, It could literally bring on a mini ice age, right?

01:23:34.000 And probably cause, without even the radiation, cause major collapse of the human population, right?

01:23:42.000 Get this number in your head, 15,000 megatons.

01:23:45.000 Okay, now, even a small asteroid impact, or let's say the asteroid impact that struck the Yucatan.

01:23:54.000 There's a simple formula that you can use.

01:23:56.000 When you look at the crater size, you take The size of the crater expressed in kilometers, raise it to the power of 3.4 and multiply the result by 2.4 and what it's going to give you is the energy yield in megatons of that object striking.

01:24:14.000 If I put in 180 kilometers into this calculator here, which is the diameter of the Yucatan Crater and I raise it to the 3.4 power and then I multiply that by the 2.4 power,

01:24:30.000 I get the megaton yield.

01:24:34.000 That number comes up to be 111 million megatons.

01:24:42.000 I divide that by 15,000 and basically what we have there is about equivalent to the entire nuclear arsenal of the superpowers 8,000 times over.

01:24:58.000 8,000 times over.

01:24:59.000 Now what kind of an environmental consequence would there be to that?

01:25:03.000 Well, we saw that global firestorms, you know, the studies of the amount of soot at that boundary layer shows that the amount of biomass that went up in firestorms at the KT boundary was about equivalent to every plant on earth today going up in fire.

01:25:23.000 You had tsunamis that were perhaps a thousand feet in height.

01:25:28.000 You had global earthquakes, probably measured 10 to 11 on the Richter scale.

01:25:33.000 And you know how the Richter scale works, it's logarithmic.

01:25:35.000 So that An 8.0 earthquake is 10 times more powerful than a 7.0.

01:25:41.000 9.0 is 10 times more powerful than an 8.0.

01:25:45.000 An 11.0 earthquake is going to be unimaginable.

01:25:48.000 The whole framework of the globe would have shaken.

01:25:50.000 You probably would have massive failures on every fault line on the planet.

01:25:55.000 Now, the KT event was the middle of the five great extinction events, right? 0.99

01:26:02.000 There was Ordovician-Silurian, there was the Permian-Triassic, there was a couple more.

01:26:08.000 Two of them were more extreme than that.

01:26:10.000 Now, even much smaller than that, right?

01:26:14.000 You know, when they talk about a tipping point, you know, are we talking about a tipping point that could trigger a climate change, a disastrous catastrophic climate change, as being a few parts million more of CO2? Or is a tipping point really a mile-wide asteroid slamming into the earth at a hundred times the speed of a rifle bullet?

01:26:37.000 That could be a tipping point, my friend.

01:26:39.000 And that has happened thousands of times.

01:26:42.000 And hundreds of times since we humans have been here.

01:26:45.000 Hundreds of times.

01:26:46.000 Hundreds of times.

01:26:47.000 And when was the most recent one?

01:26:49.000 That was the Holocene crater?

01:26:50.000 Well, probably.

01:26:52.000 There's evidence emerging now that the collapse of the late Bronze Age civilizations around 4,200 years ago may have been precipitated by a series of impacts.

01:27:00.000 There's evidence emerging that the climate downturn that occurred between 536 and 540 A.D. that I talked about earlier may have been triggered by a series of multiple impacts.

01:27:11.000 One that looks like it occurred off the coast of Norway and another one that looks like it occurred off the coast of New Zealand, like tandem impacts, right?

01:27:19.000 Around 536 A.D. And we're basically faced with the idea now that Literally, impacts from things from space may be hundreds of times more likely than anybody was even imagining, you know,

01:27:35.000 a generation ago.

01:27:36.000 So we're essentially this civilization that is banking on the knowledge that we've accumulated over a very small amount of time, and as we're uncovering more and more evidence, more and more information, we're starting to realize our ignorance.

01:27:52.000 We're starting to realize how little we know about our own history, the history of this particular species, and how it's interacted in this crazy, volatile environment of Earth, and how many times we've been hit by rocks.

01:28:05.000 Yeah!

01:28:06.000 And see, you know, a hundred years ago, the assumption was...

01:28:09.000 What are these images?

01:28:11.000 Are these craters or impacts?

01:28:13.000 Yeah, that's actually 10 years old, but it shows now all the identified impacts.

01:28:19.000 And this is 10 years old, so since then some new ones have popped up.

01:28:22.000 Oh, dozens more, yeah.

01:28:23.000 And since then has been the discovery of this nuclear glass that they've found all over Europe and all over Asia.

01:28:32.000 Are you referring to possibly the thing that Graham was talking about, the 13,000 year ago event?

01:28:39.000 I think that's what it is.

01:28:41.000 What I'm referring to is there was a mainstream report about all these pieces of this very similar material to what they find at nuclear blasts.

01:28:51.000 Yes.

01:28:52.000 And that it was all over the place when they did the core samples around 12,000 years ago.

01:28:57.000 Yes, then that's exactly what Graham's talking about.

01:29:00.000 And yes, the evidence is getting stronger and stronger each year that there may have been a multiple impact event that terminated the Ice Age.

01:29:09.000 And this is still a very controversial idea because the gradualists just don't want to go there.

01:29:16.000 And this is probably what killed off mass extinction of the woolly mammoth, mass extinction of the saber-toothed tiger, and a series of animals that They really have not figured out why.

01:29:27.000 There's been all sorts of theories about why the woolly mammoth went extinct, and some of them are ridiculous, like that people did it.

01:29:35.000 I'm glad to hear you say that. 0.98

01:29:36.000 That's a ridiculous idea. 0.99

01:29:37.000 Well, it's ridiculous when you think about what kind of people were around 12,000 years ago and what kind of weapons they had and what a fucking mammoth looks like. 0.99

01:29:44.000 Like, Jesus Christ, how many of them were? 0.98

01:29:47.000 And the other thing that's ridiculous about, obviously, when I say ridiculous, I'm ridiculous. 0.95

01:29:51.000 I shouldn't even be making that statement. 0.93

01:29:53.000 I've done very little research.

01:29:54.000 But the research that I've read and the people that have questioned it have talked about the mass graves where they've found these animals that have died instantaneously, thousands of them, and not consumed either.

01:30:08.000 They don't show signs of predation or of butchering.

01:30:13.000 They've died in full form, full body.

01:30:17.000 Massive, massive amounts.

01:30:19.000 Massive graveyards.

01:30:20.000 You know, for centuries, pristine mammoth tusks, ivory, have been hauled out of the permafrost of Siberia in train load lots.

01:30:30.000 You know, and this has gone into the global ivory market literally for three or four hundred years.

01:30:36.000 Some estimates are that there may have been as many as four to ten million woolly mammoths worldwide.

01:30:41.000 Most people don't realize that right here in North America, there were three species of Probocidian or three species of elephants during the Ice Age.

01:30:49.000 Africa has one species.

01:30:50.000 India has another species. 1.00

01:30:53.000 We had three species here.

01:30:55.000 During the time when Gobekli Tepe was being built?

01:30:57.000 Yes.

01:30:58.000 Wow.

01:30:58.000 During the time...

01:30:59.000 Elephants.

01:31:00.000 Yeah, elephants.

01:31:02.000 And here's another perspective.

01:31:04.000 Is that one that they found?

01:31:05.000 What is that?

01:31:05.000 This is the Beresovka mammoth that was found in 1901, quick-frozen.

01:31:12.000 Yeah, with flesh.

01:31:14.000 Now, at the time this photograph was taken, wolves had eaten the flesh off of the skull.

01:31:20.000 That's why it's bare.

01:31:23.000 But what you see there, immediately...

01:31:25.000 Dirty wolves.

01:31:26.000 Yeah. 0.96

01:31:27.000 Eating some million-year-old meat. 1.00

01:31:29.000 Disgusting assholes. 1.00

01:31:30.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:31:32.000 Probably 13,000-year-old meat.

01:31:34.000 So that's a little, not quite as bad as million-year-old meat.

01:31:37.000 Still disgusting.

01:31:39.000 But you can see the mammoth's left forelimb just in front of his face there.

01:31:44.000 You see how it's...

01:31:45.000 And if Jamie toggles back and forth between this image and the next one, you'll be able to see...

01:31:52.000 Yeah.

01:31:53.000 This was how the woolly mammoth was found.

01:31:56.000 So they took photos of it when it was found like this and then they left it alone and the wolves came and got it?

01:32:01.000 This is a reconstruction, I believe, in the Leningrad Museum.

01:32:05.000 So what they did was they took the remains of the woolly mammoth and then taxidermists came in and reconstructed.

01:32:11.000 But this shows the position in which he was found sitting on his haunches like that.

01:32:18.000 At the time that the woolly mammoth met his demise, he was eating flowering plants, right?

01:32:24.000 Now it's important to keep that in mind.

01:32:26.000 His stomach was full of about two dozen different varieties of plants and sedges and things that he had been munching on up in Siberia at the time that he met his death.

01:32:38.000 A number of interesting things.

01:32:40.000 The contents of his stomach had not putrefied.

01:32:43.000 Right?

01:32:43.000 Now, that's mysterious.

01:32:46.000 The fact that his flesh was still edible, at least by wolves.

01:32:50.000 You know, the stories about, you know, the scientists eating mammoth burgers is probably made up.

01:32:55.000 But the wolves definitely were able to eat the flesh, right?

01:32:59.000 It was described as still being marbled, almost as if it had just been frozen You know, a week ago.

01:33:05.000 But since the time that the woolly mammoth died, it had its whole carcass.

01:33:10.000 Now, this was a six-ton woolly mammoth.

01:33:12.000 So it had been frozen for how many thousands and thousands of years, and so thoroughly frozen that the contents of the stomach had not putrefied.

01:33:23.000 Now, a woolly mammoth of six tons has a lot of internal heat, right?

01:33:31.000 Clarence Birdseye, the founder of Birdseye Foods and the inventor of the fast freezing of foods for preservation, got involved in examining and speculating about this woolly mammoth.

01:33:46.000 His conclusion basically led to something like this.

01:33:49.000 In order to prevent the contents of the stomach from putrefying, the entire carcass of the woolly mammoth would have had to have been frozen through and through in 10 hours or less.

01:34:00.000 Now, bear in mind that this woolly mammoth was eating flowering plants, right?

01:34:04.000 Now, how cold would it have to be to freeze a six-ton woolly mammoth in 10 hours or less?

01:34:12.000 His estimate was probably somewhere around 150 degrees below zero.

01:34:16.000 So, from flowering plants to 150 degrees below zero in 10 hours?

01:34:24.000 In 10 hours.

01:34:26.000 What causes something like that?

01:34:29.000 Well, there's been some speculation.

01:34:32.000 The speculation that I found most interesting was possibly volcanic gases that had been ejected up into the stratosphere, approached absolute zero and because of the cold, fell back to Earth.

01:34:47.000 I think you could get the same effect perhaps with gases released from a disintegrating comet nucleus.

01:34:55.000 It's still a mystery.

01:34:56.000 I mean, anything that anybody says at this point is purely speculative.

01:35:00.000 However, it's clear that whatever this mammoth underwent was disastrous in the extreme.

01:35:06.000 You saw him sitting there on his haunches, right?

01:35:09.000 Both of his hip bones were broken, which means that he was slammed back onto his haunches very violently. 0.90

01:35:15.000 He was also found with an erect penis, which means that he died by suffocation.

01:35:23.000 Which meant that he was entombed virtually instantly by the material that later became the permafrost.

01:35:29.000 We were talking about the Little Ice Age earlier, and I was talking about how the Little Ice Age ended around 1850. Well, this guy was found about 1901 after the climate in Siberia had been warming somewhat, see?

01:35:41.000 And what happened was part of a cliff that had been next to the Beresovka River, the Beresovka River had shifted its channel and eroded Some of the cliff face back and then one year, one warm spring, there was a collapse of the cliff face that exposed this mammoth to the atmosphere.

01:36:02.000 And at that point is when the wolves came in and began to devour the flesh on the skull.

01:36:07.000 So clearly this wooly mammoth is an example of or indicative of some type of a catastrophe.

01:36:15.000 Whether it was a global catastrophe or a local catastrophe, nobody knows.

01:36:18.000 But Clearly it was catastrophic.

01:36:21.000 But that woolly mammoth is only one of dozens of examples of flash-frozen late Pleistocene mammals that died under similar circumstances.

01:36:31.000 And these large graveyards of mass extinctions of thousands and thousands of animals, what are the best examples of them?

01:36:40.000 Because I know that I've seen some of them online, but I can't pull them up like I'm sure you can.

01:36:44.000 I've got some right here if I can get my laptop to...

01:36:49.000 Jamie, pull up, look towards the bottom of the list, you'll see Pleistocene, the lost world of the Pleistocene.

01:36:57.000 Do you see that?

01:36:59.000 No, it's a PowerPoint.

01:37:04.000 It's in that list of the PowerPoints that I gave you.

01:37:06.000 I have some photographs.

01:37:07.000 You're freaking me out.

01:37:08.000 I just want to tell you right now, you're freaking me out.

01:37:10.000 I get freaked out pretty easy, but you're freaking me out.

01:37:15.000 Flash frozen mammoth.

01:37:17.000 I have to confess that one of my objectives in coming here was to try to freak you out.

01:37:22.000 Well, you did it.

01:37:23.000 Congratulations.

01:37:24.000 You're successful.

01:37:26.000 I've been terrified of Yellowstone for years now.

01:37:30.000 I've watched some late night documentary.

01:37:32.000 It was a huge mistake.

01:37:33.000 It was one of those things.

01:37:34.000 I was about to go to bed and I was just flipping through the channels and they were going over this thing about a caldera volcano in Yellowstone. 0.99

01:37:41.000 I was like, what the fuck's a caldera? 0.68

01:37:43.000 And then they started talking about, what was it, something like 600 kilometers wide or something crazy like that, which is something like 300 miles. 0.97

01:37:51.000 And they were saying that they didn't even discover it until they started doing satellite imagery of Earth, and then they realized that, oh, this was a giant volcano that was so violent in its eruption that it blew the mountain off of it,

01:38:06.000 and it became this massive crater that And that it happens every 600,000 to 800,000 years ago and that the last time it happened was 600,000 years ago.

01:38:15.000 So hopefully, keeping our fingers crossed, we got another 100,000 years.

01:38:20.000 If we're lucky.

01:38:20.000 Yeah.

01:38:21.000 But see, that's another aspect of this component of the dynamic history of planet Earth is these gigantic volcanic eruptions.

01:38:30.000 There's been some interesting work linking asteroid impacts with giant volcanic eruptions as well and it would make sense that That the energy injected into the earth by a major impact could trigger volcanic eruptions.

01:38:46.000 We know that during the great meltdown event of 11,000 to 13,000 years ago that there were enormous, massive volcanic eruptions.

01:38:57.000 And Mount St. Helens, for example, was massively erupting at that time.

01:39:04.000 And I have photographed, I have some photographs right here, I don't know how much time we have to look at some of this, but where I have gone out and found Thick layers of white volcanic ash from Mount St. Helens sandwiched in between these flood layers.

01:39:20.000 And it undoubtedly had to have been a response to the fact that you had this enormous mass transfer of weight that we were talking about earlier from the continents back to the ocean.

01:39:32.000 And when we go through, maybe it's time to go through a few of these images that I brought so you can begin to see some of the consequences of this melting.

01:39:42.000 You begin to appreciate that, yeah, there were these just enormous mass transfers of weight.

01:39:48.000 Unloading in certain areas, loading in other areas, this would clearly have a profound effect on the subterranean stability and could easily lead to major eruptions.

01:40:01.000 And there was a spasm of major volcanic eruptions globally.

01:40:06.000 At the time of the transition out of the Ice Age, which would only have added to the havoc of that transition.

01:40:13.000 And why, you know, half of the great species of megafauna disappeared.

01:40:18.000 A megafauna is basically defined as any animal In this case, mostly mammals, over 44 kilograms in body weight, which is about a hundred pounds, right?

01:40:29.000 So that would include us.

01:40:30.000 And if you started thinking about all of the animals globally, worldwide, there are more than a hundred pounds.

01:40:36.000 Depending on how you divide up the species, there might be a hundred to twenty, a hundred and thirty different species.

01:40:41.000 And I'm talking about the, you know, lions and tigers and bears and elephants and rhinos and hippos and moose and caribou and dot to dot, right down the line, right?

01:40:51.000 Okay, let's go back to the Ice Age.

01:40:53.000 The extinction, the loss of species at the end of the last Ice Age was about equivalent in number.

01:41:00.000 The loss of species of mega mammals was about equivalent in number to the number of species of mega mammals that still exist.

01:41:09.000 So in other words, these events that terminated the Ice Age basically decimated Half of the species of mega mammals on Earth.

01:41:19.000 Half of the species disappeared.

01:41:21.000 So if you were going to try to effect an equivalent mass extinction of species today, you'd basically have to eliminate every animal on Earth over 100 pounds in body weight in order to get the equivalent of that mass extinction episode of 12,000,

01:41:37.000 13,000 years ago.

01:41:38.000 That's insane.

01:41:38.000 It's insane, but it's absolutely the truth.

01:41:41.000 What is the official, like, or mainstream explanation for this?

01:41:47.000 It doesn't exist!

01:41:49.000 Okay, you brought up the idea of, it's called overkill, which has been the dominant theory for decades, which is that human hunters exterminated the woolly mammoth.

01:42:00.000 And in some vague way, the extermination of the woolly mammoth being at the top of the food chain somehow had a ripple effect down the You know, through the ranks of species and somehow, perhaps, in an unaddressed way, resulted in the loss of all these other species.

01:42:17.000 But they just don't address that.

01:42:19.000 And the more you said that theory is ridiculous, that's an understatement.

01:42:24.000 I mean, you're talking about, you know, perhaps bands of a few hundred or maybe even a thousand individuals, migrant bands, human hunters coming in and somehow able...

01:42:36.000 See, you've got to bear in mind that the estimates of human population during this time globally is less than the estimates of the population of woolly mammoths.

01:42:45.000 But somehow, our ancestors were able to wipe out 4 million to 10 million woolly mammoths so fast...

01:42:53.000 That they couldn't even reproduce?

01:42:55.000 So there was only like 10 million people back then?

01:42:58.000 That's, well, see, that's based upon more or less the conventional interpretation.

01:43:03.000 Now, of course, what we've been talking about implies, opens the door to their possibility of there being a lot more people.

01:43:10.000 And then mass extinction also including a massive amount of human beings as well.

01:43:15.000 Yeah, and there is some interesting evidence emerging now that there perhaps was a population collapse between what is called the Clovis culture and the Folsom culture.

01:43:24.000 The Clovis culture appears in North America to be...

01:43:27.000 What is believed to have been the earliest culture.

01:43:29.000 And there's a site in New Mexico that was the first discovery of the association of human artifacts, meaning spear points and arrowheads and things like that, along with extinct mammals.

01:43:43.000 This is Clovis, New Mexico.

01:43:45.000 It's a very interesting site.

01:43:46.000 I visited there about six or seven years ago because I was looking for this so-called black matte layer, which has now been documented at dozens of Clovis sites around North America.

01:43:57.000 The black matte layer is this unique layer that essentially separates the Pleistocene from the Holocene.

01:44:06.000 And it's full of soot.

01:44:08.000 It's full of Iridium, nanodiamonds, microspherals, and all of these signature things that are indicative of some kind of a cosmic event.

01:44:19.000 Is this image indicative of that?

01:44:21.000 Is that what this is?

01:44:22.000 Yeah, that's kind of a blurry image, but right there...

01:44:26.000 You can see it up here, too, so you can face the microphone.

01:44:28.000 Yeah, okay.

01:44:29.000 The white strip in the middle shows the black matte layer.

01:44:32.000 That's exactly it.

01:44:35.000 And what you see below it are the bones of extinct mammals, and what you see a couple of thousand years later is bones of extant mammals.

01:44:44.000 And nowhere above that black mat layer do you find the bones of the extinct mammals.

01:44:50.000 What is extant?

01:44:51.000 It means dead that still exists?

01:44:52.000 No, still exist.

01:44:54.000 Okay.

01:44:54.000 You know, yeah, bears are extant.

01:44:58.000 I see.

01:44:59.000 You know, woolly mammoths are extinct.

01:45:01.000 So there's a very distinct line that can be attributed to some sort of an event.

01:45:07.000 Yes, some sort of an event.

01:45:09.000 Something before that, they're all alive.

01:45:11.000 Something after that, they're all dead.

01:45:13.000 They're all dead.

01:45:14.000 And a massive amount of the larger mammals gone.

01:45:18.000 Wiped off the face of the planet.

01:45:19.000 Wiped off the face of the planet.

01:45:20.000 North America lost about 75% of its species of mega mammals. 1.00

01:45:25.000 Holy shit. 0.99

01:45:26.000 Three quarters. 1.00

01:45:28.000 Yeah, there we go.

01:45:29.000 There's some of them.

01:45:30.000 What was that thing below?

01:45:32.000 That thing below... 1.00

01:45:32.000 What is that fucking thing? 1.00

01:45:34.000 Giant ground sloth. 1.00

01:45:36.000 That fucking thing is the Megatherium Americanum. 1.00

01:45:38.000 It's the giant ground sloth. 1.00

01:45:40.000 It was the size of an elephant.

01:45:41.000 Oh my god.

01:45:43.000 These are the glyptodonts.

01:45:45.000 These are all 10,000 years ago?

01:45:47.000 Not this guy.

01:45:49.000 These are dinosaurs, obviously.

01:45:50.000 Dynorus maximus is the giant moa.

01:45:53.000 This guy, I threw him in here for Aukis because he's just such an awesome creature. 1.00

01:45:57.000 That's the terror bird, right?

01:45:58.000 That's the terror bird.

01:46:00.000 Yeah.

01:46:00.000 Scroll back up.

01:46:01.000 Stop scrolling, Jamie. 1.00

01:46:02.000 Look at that fucking bird. 1.00

01:46:03.000 That's a seven foot tall, bigger than that. 1.00

01:46:06.000 Eight, nine foot tall, yeah.

01:46:07.000 A bird that doesn't fly.

01:46:09.000 So essentially a murderous ostrich.

01:46:11.000 Yeah.

01:46:11.000 This was the top of the food chain during the Miocene.

01:46:14.000 Really?

01:46:14.000 Yeah, this was it.

01:46:15.000 This was the baddest ass predator on the planet for a while. 0.99

01:46:20.000 Really? 0.99

01:46:20.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:46:21.000 More so than a saber-toothed tiger.

01:46:23.000 These guys existed before the saber-toothed tiger.

01:46:26.000 But they succumbed to one of these global events.

01:46:29.000 You've got to bear in mind that if you take a census of all the species that ever existed compared to the species now...

01:46:38.000 It's conservative to say that 99.99% of all species have become extinct.

01:46:44.000 Wow.

01:46:45.000 And the ones that...

01:46:46.000 And of course, most of those went extinct without any help from humans at all.

01:46:52.000 Stop scrolling. 1.00

01:46:53.000 What is that fucking thing? 1.00

01:46:54.000 That's Elasmotherium sibericum. 1.00

01:46:56.000 Jesus Christ.

01:46:58.000 Yeah.

01:46:58.000 I mean, you begin to appreciate...

01:47:00.000 It's like a bull that fucked a rhino. 0.99

01:47:03.000 It is, but it's... 0.99

01:47:04.000 Does that look like that?

01:47:06.000 Yeah.

01:47:08.000 Wow, that's insane how big that is.

01:47:10.000 Oh, it was huge.

01:47:12.000 I mean, it was elephant-sized, basically.

01:47:14.000 A woolly rhinoceros the size of an elephant.

01:47:16.000 And this is Coelodonta, which is the classic woolly rhinoceros.

01:47:19.000 And there have been quite a few species of these guys found that were flash-frozen.

01:47:23.000 And this is 12,000 years ago, this thing existed.

01:47:26.000 Yes.

01:47:26.000 A woolly rhinoceros.

01:47:27.000 Yes.

01:47:27.000 In North America.

01:47:29.000 Jesus Christ, that's incredible.

01:47:31.000 And what's the mainstream explanation for these things going away?

01:47:36.000 Good luck on trying to find one.

01:47:38.000 I have looked.

01:47:39.000 There is none.

01:47:41.000 There is nothing.

01:47:43.000 There's nothing.

01:47:44.000 So is this something that they just haven't formed any theories about, or they don't try to, or it's been ignored because there's not enough information?

01:47:54.000 It's been ignored, and here's why.

01:47:57.000 At the dawn of earth science, geological science, in the early 19th century, To a man, every one of the founding fathers of geology, whether it was William Buckland or Cuvier or Sir James Hall or Rodney Murchison,

01:48:13.000 Adam Sedgwick, you could go right down the line.

01:48:15.000 All of these guys from 1820 up to about 1860. Every one of them was a catastrophist.

01:48:21.000 To a man.

01:48:21.000 Every one.

01:48:22.000 Because these were guys, basically, who had not been indoctrinated into any particular interpretation of world history.

01:48:29.000 They went out and they looked at evidence in the landscape, and their conclusion was, you know, something really catastrophic has happened.

01:48:37.000 And then what happened was you had Charles Lyell Playfair and James Hutton, these three guys came along and basically established the doctrine of uniformitarianism, as it's called.

01:48:51.000 A mouthful, right?

01:48:53.000 And basically the idea of uniformitarianism was this, is that we look at modern processes to explain Ancient processes.

01:49:01.000 So if we see a river eroding its bank, moving sediment, creating a sandbar with that, if we see like during the early 19th century, we were in the last phase of the Little Ice Age, so glaciers were receding, and these guys could essentially go up there and look on a year-to-year basis and see what was happening as the glaciers were receding,

01:49:20.000 right?

01:49:21.000 So basically what they then did was extrapolated from modern processes to try to explain all the ancient processes.

01:49:29.000 This is the doctrine of uniformitarianism.

01:49:31.000 Okay, it's a very powerful model for understanding ancient change.

01:49:36.000 However, it became ensconced as dogma, so that by the turn of the century, as we come right up to the threshold of the 20th century, it was now considered unscientific to try to explain anything in the past that we couldn't see happening today.

01:49:55.000 Right?

01:49:57.000 As we go into the 20th century, this gradualist dogma became ensconced in academia.

01:50:04.000 And every geologist from about 1900 up to about 1980 was thoroughly indoctrinated into this idea of the gradualism.

01:50:14.000 That all of the earth change that we see going on on the planet today has occurred one grain of sand, one drop of water at a time.

01:50:21.000 And it was considered to be very unscientific.

01:50:26.000 To begin to invoke things, because initially some of the founding fathers of geology, a lot of them interestingly were theologians.

01:50:36.000 A number of them, like Adam Sedgwick is a good example of somebody who was a traveling theologian, a traveling minister, right?

01:50:42.000 He was traveling around England, and he was seeing things like the Thames River Valley, and he was seeing that the Thames flowed in this gigantic channel that was completely outsized relative to the river that was flowing in it.

01:50:56.000 And he says, that must have been from a huge flood.

01:51:00.000 Well, he was a theologian, right?

01:51:01.000 So he said, Noah's Flood, right?

01:51:04.000 Well, as it turns out, there are enormous geomorphic effects of gigantic floods all over the planet, right?

01:51:15.000 We know that now, right?

01:51:18.000 In the 1800s, they assumed that if you saw effects of gigantic floods, it had to have been Noah's Flood.

01:51:26.000 Well, at the same time that you had geological gradualism on the ascent, biological gradualism came along in the form of Darwinism.

01:51:36.000 And the two sort of complemented each other and mutually supported each other.

01:51:41.000 Well, if we've got infinite time, you know, millions and millions of years of gradual geological change, Now that allows us millions and millions of years for gradual biological change.

01:51:53.000 And these two paradigms were mutually reinforcing.

01:51:56.000 So now we come to the 20th century, and for the first three quarters of the 20th century, that was the dogma that was indoctrinated into the minds of every Earth scientist, right?

01:52:08.000 And to vary from that was to be pseudoscientific, and you're trying to revert back to biblical fundamentalism if you start talking about giant floods.

01:52:18.000 Well, what happened was, and then it was left to people like Immanuel Velikovsky, who was not an Earth scientist, he was a psychoanalyst, and he wrote several books in the mid-1950s where he had gathered together in one place all of this anomalous evidence from the Earth history that did not fit the uniformitarian paradigm.

01:52:38.000 Now, his books were popular successes, but mainstream science just slammed them, slammed them and said, this guy's a nutcase, right?

01:52:46.000 Well, he did make some serious missteps in trying to explain this anomalous geological evidence for catastrophe.

01:52:54.000 And it was those missteps that they were able to focus on to try to discredit him.

01:52:58.000 However, the amassing of evidence for catastrophes in Earth history has held the test of time.

01:53:05.000 And what we see is, 1980 was a pivotal year.

01:53:08.000 That was a year that three separate teams published evidence showing that the Cretaceous-Tertiary boundary, the dinosaur boundary, was profoundly catastrophic.

01:53:20.000 And that opened the door to begin a reconsideration of Earth history.

01:53:26.000 Now at the same time, With the advent of the space program, we are beginning to realize that near-Earth space is not a completely empty place.

01:53:36.000 It's actually densely populated by all kinds of things.

01:53:41.000 Prior to the Apollo moon program, it was believed that most of the craters on the moon, if not all of the craters on the moon, were volcanic.

01:53:49.000 Right?

01:53:50.000 Post-Apollo, the realization was that no, they're not volcanic, they're impacts of things from space.

01:53:56.000 See?

01:53:57.000 Now you look at the surface of the Moon, and I think the last image on the Joe Rogan images there is going to be a picture of the Moon, and you'll see that it's littered.

01:54:08.000 Littered!

01:54:09.000 Thousands and thousands and thousands of craters.

01:54:11.000 And because it doesn't have an atmosphere, because it doesn't have plants, we can actually see everything that's happened.

01:54:17.000 And the point, Joe, is this.

01:54:18.000 If we were able to strip away the biosphere, the thick layers of sedimentary rocks, the oceans, the earth would look like the moon. 0.99

01:54:27.000 God damn. 1.00

01:54:28.000 It would look like the fucking moon. 1.00

01:54:30.000 So it's simply a matter of time and perspective that we really, well, thankfully there's people like you that are paying attention to this, but with the amount of time that people have been videotaping things and writing books, 0.98

01:54:47.000 this tiny little window, there just hasn't been enough time to really get a real account of how often this takes place because that That amount of time, although it's a grand amount of time compared to our lives, to the life of an individual, for the life of the planet,

01:55:03.000 it's nothing.

01:55:04.000 It's nothing.

01:55:04.000 It's a perspective issue.

01:55:05.000 It's a perspective issue.

01:55:06.000 Exactly.

01:55:07.000 Exactly.

01:55:08.000 Wow.

01:55:09.000 And this is one reason why I'm an advocate for moving forward and essentially becoming a cosmic civilization.

01:55:17.000 You see, I came of age during the heyday of the Mercury and Gemini and Apollo programs.

01:55:25.000 And, you know, that was the one thing, when I look back and I go, you know what, one of the last times that I was really proud of my country, Was when we put those men on the moon, you know, when we planted our American flag on the moon.

01:55:36.000 And I really believe back in 1969, 1970, that we were, America's destiny was to move the human species into this grander cosmic environment.

01:55:47.000 Then, of course, you know, the Vietnam War came along and other priorities and money got shifted.

01:55:52.000 The Nixon administration shifted huge amounts of money away from the space program.

01:55:56.000 The timetable that was set out that we were going to have a permanent lunar base by the end of the 70s, first manned mission to Mars before the 80s was over, perhaps independently self-supporting colonies in space by the year 2000. Mayor,

01:56:13.000 I was a junior in high school when Kubrick's 2001 A Space Odyssey came out.

01:56:18.000 Have you ever seen it?

01:56:19.000 Sure.

01:56:20.000 Yeah.

01:56:21.000 1968, nobody had any, it was no stretch of the imagination to assume that by 2001, yeah, there were going to be orbiting hotels in space, right?

01:56:30.000 That could have happened.

01:56:32.000 But we lost our vision, we lost our will, and we just got sidetracked.

01:56:38.000 You know, I remember in the 70s talking to people about the potential of colonizing space, using the materials and resources found in space.

01:56:47.000 And the knee-jerk response I always got was, well, we've got too many problems here on Earth.

01:56:53.000 We've got to solve those problems first.

01:56:56.000 Well, my response to that was, well, good luck, because you're basically talking about altering human nature, right?

01:57:03.000 And it's going to take something more than just some policy to alter human nature.

01:57:08.000 What it's going to take is some serious consciousness excursions, Perhaps people going to space.

01:57:17.000 You know, here we had these astronauts.

01:57:19.000 I met Edgar Mitchell years ago.

01:57:21.000 He's a mason.

01:57:22.000 He came to my lodge years ago.

01:57:24.000 Edgar Mitchell, who was one of the astronauts.

01:57:26.000 He was one of the many astronauts that went into space.

01:57:29.000 Mason, like as in Freemasons? 0.74

01:57:30.000 As in Freemasons, yeah.

01:57:31.000 Everybody freaks out when you say Freemasons.

01:57:33.000 I know.

01:57:33.000 They think, Illuminati!

01:57:35.000 Black helicopters. 0.61

01:57:35.000 More nonsense. 0.61

01:57:36.000 And we should have a whole session just to deal with that ridiculous nonsense. 0.99

01:57:41.000 Next time. 0.95

01:57:41.000 Next time, yeah. 0.95

01:57:41.000 Freak me out about that. 0.95

01:57:42.000 Okay.

01:57:44.000 So Edgar Mitchell, when you met him, was he talking about aliens?

01:57:47.000 No, no, no.

01:57:49.000 He was talking about going into space and seeing God.

01:57:52.000 Whoa.

01:57:52.000 It's crazier than aliens.

01:57:54.000 Yeah, crazier than aliens. 0.84

01:57:55.000 Because God made aliens.

01:57:56.000 Perhaps.

01:57:57.000 So he saw God in the sense that he got a sense...

01:58:01.000 Without even saying God, he got a sense of the grandness of the universe.

01:58:09.000 Yes, and the potential role of humans in that.

01:58:14.000 Have you ever been to the Keck Observatory in Hawaii?

01:58:17.000 No, I haven't.

01:58:18.000 The Keck Observatory in Hawaii is a very unique place because it's on the big island of Hawaii, and it's very high up in altitude.

01:58:24.000 And when you get up there, you actually drive through the clouds.

01:58:28.000 I took my family there several years ago, and we were bummed out.

01:58:31.000 We were like, oh, it's so cloudy.

01:58:33.000 We're not going to be able to see anything.

01:58:34.000 But then you pop through the clouds as you continue to drive, and the view is magnificent.

01:58:41.000 And it is, to this day, one of the most intense experiences ever That's the Keck Observatory.

01:58:56.000 See how it's above the clouds?

01:58:58.000 That's a daytime shot.

01:58:59.000 Jamie, see if you can pull up a nighttime shot because they set the camera aperture to capture the I had a regular camera.

01:59:07.000 I couldn't really capture the actual stars themselves.

01:59:11.000 But you see the Milky Way like, not like that.

01:59:14.000 It's way more intense than that.

01:59:16.000 You see the Milky Way in its full form.

01:59:19.000 You see all, yeah.

01:59:21.000 And there's so many stars.

01:59:23.000 It's so shocking.

01:59:25.000 You're immediately forced to accept the reality that we're in space.

01:59:29.000 Mm-hmm.

01:59:29.000 Whereas it's so easy to deny when all you see is the moon and a couple little dots.

01:59:33.000 It's like, whatever, man.

01:59:34.000 I'm in Hollywood.

01:59:34.000 I got to go to work.

01:59:35.000 And you drive and you get on the—that's what it's like.

01:59:38.000 Yeah.

01:59:38.000 And it's so—and that's just a photograph.

01:59:42.000 And that's, you know, obviously there's some doctoring going on because I don't know what those lines are.

01:59:47.000 But— It's insane how intense it is.

01:59:50.000 It's insane.

01:59:51.000 And it's right above you.

01:59:54.000 It's right above us all the time.

01:59:56.000 That's what I love about the high desert plateaus.

01:59:58.000 You've got this dry atmosphere and it's like literally you can almost reach out and touch the stars.

02:00:04.000 Yeah, you've never been to LA before.

02:00:06.000 This is your first trip to LA because when you're in California, you just go to the Mojave and stare at space.

02:00:12.000 Well, I stare at space and I stare at the rocks.

02:00:14.000 The rocks below my feet and the stars over my head, yeah.

02:00:17.000 How did you get involved in the exploration of all this stuff?

02:00:21.000 Well, you know, I guess I better...

02:00:24.000 It's time to come out of the closet.

02:00:26.000 I think I did a little too many drugs back in the 60s.

02:00:29.000 Nah, I think you did the right amount.

02:00:31.000 Yeah.

02:00:31.000 I think you're being hard on yourself.

02:00:32.000 Actually...

02:00:35.000 Actually, in 1969, of course, I was raised in rural Minnesota.

02:00:40.000 And where we grew up, we lived on the shores of a puddle, a meltwater puddle left over from the receding of the glaciers.

02:00:46.000 Call it a puddle.

02:00:47.000 I call it a puddle.

02:00:49.000 It was three quarters of a mile long.

02:00:50.000 It was just, you know, Minnesota, Wisconsin's got, what, 25,000 lakes.

02:00:54.000 And every one of them is...

02:00:55.000 Leftover meltwater puddles from the recession of the glacier.

02:00:58.000 So I can still remember being like six or seven years old and my dad telling me, you know, once upon a time, this was thousands of feet under the ice.

02:01:06.000 And that's how we had land on the edge of this lake.

02:01:09.000 And as a kid, I used to sit in my backyard and fish for, you know, Sunfish and crappies and bullheads.

02:01:17.000 That's what I don't understand.

02:01:17.000 Interrupt your story for just one second.

02:01:19.000 How the fuck does that happen? 0.98

02:01:21.000 Where 10,000 years ago, it's a glacier. 0.97

02:01:23.000 10,000 years later, there's fish in there. 0.98

02:01:26.000 Where the fuck are the fish coming from? 0.93

02:01:28.000 I don't know, but they were there. 0.98

02:01:30.000 But where's the largemouth bass come from?

02:01:32.000 What's the lake trout in the Great Lakes? 0.99

02:01:36.000 Where the fuck do they come from? 0.96

02:01:38.000 10,000 years ago, that was frozen solid. 1.00

02:01:41.000 Yes, frozen solid. 0.99

02:01:42.000 Where the fuck do lake trout come from? 0.99

02:01:45.000 I'll have to get to work on that, Joe, because I don't know the answer. 0.99

02:01:48.000 I need to know, man.

02:01:49.000 I'm freaking out.

02:01:50.000 How about Northern Pike?

02:01:51.000 I mean, Northern Pike, you go to Saskatchewan, people fly in from all over the world to go fishing up there because they have this massive population of beautiful Northern Pike.

02:02:02.000 That was frozen!

02:02:03.000 Yes!

02:02:04.000 Saskatchewan was under a mile of ice! 1.00

02:02:06.000 What the fuck, man? 1.00

02:02:08.000 I'm freaking out. 1.00

02:02:09.000 That doesn't even make sense.

02:02:11.000 Yeah.

02:02:11.000 So you saw this.

02:02:13.000 You were a kid.

02:02:14.000 I was a kid growing up with that landscape.

02:02:16.000 So I got fascinated by it.

02:02:18.000 But in 1969, I went to an outdoor rock concert that was at an airport called Eden Prairie that's just outside of the Twin Cities, Minneapolis.

02:02:29.000 It's on a series of bluffs that overlooks the Minnesota River Valley, right?

02:02:35.000 Of course, I'm stoned out of my gourd.

02:02:37.000 And I was taking a break from the...

02:02:40.000 The music and the ladies and everything.

02:02:43.000 And I went over and was standing on this bluff.

02:02:45.000 And Jamie, if you would pull up, I think it's near the end of the pictures I brought for Joe.

02:02:50.000 I have a beautiful example of scale invariance.

02:02:53.000 And this is going to be similar to what I saw.

02:02:56.000 And when you see it, that's like the 25 images that's labeled for Joe.

02:03:05.000 Towards the end, it's a picture of the Snake River.

02:03:10.000 Find it.

02:03:11.000 Wow.

02:03:11.000 The Snake River.

02:03:12.000 Wait till you see this, Joe.

02:03:13.000 Now this is an example of scale invariance.

02:03:16.000 Now what that means is that, you know, yeah, here we go.

02:03:19.000 Now look at this.

02:03:20.000 What you see here.

02:03:22.000 Where can folks that are just listening to this go and see these images?

02:03:26.000 Are they on your website?

02:03:28.000 I think this one is on my website.

02:03:30.000 Okay.

02:03:30.000 Yeah, I think this one's on my website.

02:03:32.000 So the Snake River.

02:03:33.000 You see the Snake River.

02:03:34.000 Scale invariance, meaning that the river at the bottom, obviously you see the lines all around it where it indicates that there was a much, much larger body of water at one point in time.

02:03:44.000 Much bigger.

02:03:45.000 The modern Snake River is about 50,000 cubic feet per second.

02:03:49.000 Okay.

02:03:49.000 Right?

02:03:50.000 At the end of the last ice age, the river here was about 30 to 40 million cubic feet per second.

02:03:57.000 So was that because of the melting glaciers, the force of the river?

02:04:01.000 This particular was not directly fed by the melting glaciers.

02:04:04.000 It was the result of the catastrophic overflow of Lake Bonneville, Which was the result of massive, prolonged torrential rainfall that just drowned all the deserts of the western and southwestern United States.

02:04:21.000 And there was an overflow, a spillway, out of the Lake Bonneville Basin in northern Utah, and it spilled over into the Snake River Plain of Idaho, 30 to 40 million cubic feet per second.

02:04:36.000 Cut this channel. 0.61

02:04:38.000 Now you'll notice that the modern Snake River occupies a small channel within the big channel.

02:04:42.000 That's scale and variance.

02:04:45.000 The big river would have been about equivalent to six to seven hundred of the modern snake rivers.

02:04:53.000 And what you're seeing here is an example of scale invariance, see?

02:04:57.000 The little is superimposed upon this big, see?

02:05:01.000 Now, in 1969, I was standing on a bluff overlooking the Minnesota River Valley Similar to this, right?

02:05:09.000 Looking down at the little Minnesota ribbon of the Minnesota River and seeing it in this huge channel.

02:05:16.000 And I had an aha moment.

02:05:18.000 I had an aha moment.

02:05:19.000 And I realized, I saw then, That this channel, that this bluff I was standing on, had once been the bank of a gigantic river, thousands of times bigger than the modern Minnesota River.

02:05:32.000 But I didn't know it rationally in the sense that it took me another 10 or 15 years of study and research before I could go back and say, yeah, What my initial instinct, looking out and seeing this matching set of bluffs,

02:05:48.000 four or five miles on the other side, and seeing this small version of it in the modern river, that I was right.

02:05:56.000 I remember one time in the 80s, I was giving a talk on that, and there was a geologist in the audience, and he got up and he goes, no, no, no, no, no, no.

02:06:05.000 That big channel, that was millions of years.

02:06:07.000 Millions of years it took for that channel to form.

02:06:10.000 And I said, no, I don't think so.

02:06:13.000 And what happened was, is by him challenging me, it really, you know, I said, okay, you know, like an MMA fighter getting challenged, says, okay, I'm going to take you on, you know.

02:06:24.000 I rose to the occasion, and I spent literally years doing research on...

02:06:30.000 Glacial geomorphology on paleohydrology and of course at the end of the thing I knew that I was my instincts were absolutely correct that yes now there is solid scientific documentable verifiable evidence that this whole channel of the Minnesota River Valley Was filled brimful with water at the end of the last ice.

02:06:49.000 So when he was saying it was millions of years, he's saying that same exact channel of water had never varied and that it had just cut through over millions and millions of years very slowly.

02:07:01.000 Yes.

02:07:01.000 But does that sort of, that doesn't seem rational because of the width.

02:07:05.000 No, it doesn't.

02:07:06.000 It doesn't.

02:07:08.000 It doesn't make sense.

02:07:09.000 So this goes along with what you were talking about earlier, that the ideas of science were that everything had taken place, much like evolution, on a very gradual pace.

02:07:20.000 Exactly.

02:07:21.000 Is this the Grand Canyon as well?

02:07:23.000 No.

02:07:24.000 Here's what I would say about the Grand Canyon.

02:07:27.000 I think that the Grand Canyon is presently...

02:07:30.000 We can observe the Colorado River eroding the Grand Canyon.

02:07:34.000 However...

02:07:35.000 I think that the erosion of the Grand Canyon is not uniform.

02:07:39.000 It's episodic.

02:07:41.000 Which means that the Grand Canyon has probably been there between two and five million years.

02:07:46.000 Because, for one thing, the Grand Canyon wouldn't start eroding until the Colorado Plateau had lifted up.

02:07:53.000 And 10 to 12 million years ago, the rim rock of the Colorado Plateau was limestones, which implies a shallow marine environment, right?

02:08:03.000 Now, when it's down at sea level, it's not going to erode.

02:08:08.000 It's not until the whole plateau lifts up between 5 and 10 million years ago that the down cutting can start.

02:08:15.000 So my take on the Grand Canyon would be that what happens is we have...

02:08:23.000 You have to understand this now.

02:08:25.000 This, I think, now is the emerging paradigm.

02:08:29.000 There are two modes of change.

02:08:31.000 The gradualist mode that we've seen dominating through the last few hundred years, at least since the advent of modern science, and then if you want to call it the catastrophic mode, where as much change is compressed into a few years or months or sometimes even days or weeks as normally would take thousands and thousands of years.

02:08:53.000 When I look at the Grand Canyon, what I'm seeing there is episodes of catastrophic erosion, probably stretching back over two and a half million years.

02:09:02.000 Remember I said the Pleistocene was about two and a half million years.

02:09:06.000 What characterizes the Pleistocene from the previous Pliocene is this alternating succession of glacial and interglacial ages, this swinging back and forth between these two extremes.

02:09:18.000 Those episodes of transition appear to be profoundly catastrophic.

02:09:23.000 And they are associated with things like massive storms, massive rainfalls, rising and falling of sea levels on an extreme basis.

02:09:34.000 And I think it's that that has created the Grand Canyon, predominantly.

02:09:41.000 In fact, the inner channel, I don't know if you've ever seen Grand Canyon?

02:09:44.000 Yes.

02:09:44.000 Yeah.

02:09:44.000 Okay, there's an inner gorge.

02:09:47.000 I could guess that that inner gorge is probably less than 100,000 years old, and probably a lot of it was cut 13,000 years ago.

02:09:54.000 Wow.

02:09:55.000 And so that's when the Pleistocene ended somewhere around 10,000 years ago?

02:09:59.000 Yeah, 10,000 to 13,000 years ago.

02:10:01.000 Wow.

02:10:02.000 Yeah.

02:10:02.000 And that's not a real picture, is it?

02:10:04.000 No, it seems like an artist's rendition.

02:10:06.000 Yeah.

02:10:07.000 I have pictures somewhere in there where you can...

02:10:09.000 Still, you get a sense.

02:10:11.000 Yeah.

02:10:12.000 Now, the accumulation of the sedimentary rocks, yeah, took hundreds of millions of years.

02:10:18.000 But that's one process.

02:10:20.000 The down cutting, the erosion of the canyon is a different process.

02:10:24.000 So again, it comes to a matter of perspective, that we're almost incapable of...

02:10:31.000 I think, you know, academically, you could sort of explain how all this takes place and explain what's happening.

02:10:41.000 But in our minds, our perspective of living a hundred years, looking back, it's very difficult to go back 20 years ago.

02:10:49.000 And, oh, I remember when that happened.

02:10:50.000 Wow, barely. 0.98

02:10:51.000 But this is, that ain't shit. 0.99

02:10:53.000 Compared to the Earth. 0.97

02:10:55.000 The Earth is just constantly changing.

02:10:58.000 Our knowledge of human history, we have this sort of static view.

02:11:02.000 And occasionally we have that meteor that flew over Russia recently and blew up in the sky.

02:11:06.000 And everybody's like, whoa, what's that?

02:11:09.000 And then it stops, and then nothing.

02:11:11.000 Go back to work.

02:11:12.000 Right, go back to work.

02:11:13.000 Go back to sleep.

02:11:13.000 Wow.

02:11:14.000 Yeah, and that thing that blew up over Russia, that was a speck. 0.76

02:11:17.000 And that was nothing.

02:11:18.000 And then there's Tunguska, which blew up in the early 1900s.

02:11:22.000 1908. June 30th, 1908. Which just flattened thousands and thousands of acres.

02:11:30.000 Oh, well, let's see.

02:11:31.000 It was 800 square miles, and there were 640 acres per square mile, so it flattened...

02:11:39.000 Half a million acres.

02:11:41.000 Oh my God.

02:11:42.000 Half a million acres.

02:11:43.000 And that was, the energy of that was about equivalent to a 15 megaton bomb.

02:11:48.000 Pull out, yeah, there's an image of Tunguska.

02:11:50.000 Yeah.

02:11:50.000 Just all the trees completely flattened.

02:11:53.000 Completely flattened.

02:11:54.000 Except a few.

02:11:55.000 Look at that gangster tree just still standing there.

02:11:57.000 How's that happen?

02:11:58.000 Yeah.

02:11:58.000 I know, it's just like...

02:11:59.000 Every now and then, just one bad motherfucker tree. 0.99

02:12:01.000 That's how people stayed alive, right? 0.99

02:12:03.000 Yeah.

02:12:03.000 Because just like everybody else died, or most things died, and most of the species died, a few people figured out a way to make it, and then they decided to have babies.

02:12:13.000 What a bunch of crazy fucks. 0.99

02:12:15.000 Could you imagine? 1.00

02:12:16.000 Giant asteroid hits, kills everybody, rotten people, and woolly mammoths all over the place, and you're still horny. 0.98

02:12:24.000 You're still horny, and you make a baby. 1.00

02:12:26.000 Like, wow! 0.97

02:12:27.000 And you raise it, and that baby makes more babies.

02:12:30.000 Well, hey, what does it say in the book of Genesis?

02:12:32.000 You know, be fruitful and multiply.

02:12:34.000 Now get this, the word replenish the earth.

02:12:38.000 Replenish the earth and subdue it.

02:12:39.000 I think clearly that's a clear hint.

02:12:42.000 That's saying this is not the primordial creation, it's a subsequent creation to something, a previous order of things.

02:12:50.000 Why use the word replenish?

02:12:52.000 Be fruitful and multiply.

02:12:54.000 It would make sense if the human population crashes in the wake of a global catastrophe and we're down hovering at the threshold of viability where, you know, we could become extinct if just anything else happens.

02:13:10.000 And we want to preserve our species.

02:13:12.000 Well, probably the thing we need to be doing is having lots of sex.

02:13:17.000 That's what I'm talking about. 0.97

02:13:18.000 Yeah.

02:13:19.000 I know. 0.98

02:13:19.000 I mean, we need to do lots of screwing. 0.98

02:13:21.000 And we need to screw and make scientists to figure out how to get us off this rock. 0.98

02:13:26.000 Yeah.

02:13:27.000 Well, see, be fruitful and multiply.

02:13:29.000 And make spaceships.

02:13:30.000 Replenish the earth and subdue it.

02:13:33.000 What the hell does that mean?

02:13:34.000 Does it say subdue it?

02:13:35.000 Subdue it.

02:13:36.000 That's in Genesis?

02:13:37.000 Oh yeah, it's in Genesis.

02:13:38.000 What the hell are they talking about there?

02:13:40.000 Choke the earth.

02:13:41.000 Well, see, that's the way it's been interpreted.

02:13:44.000 I think it's being interpreted to say, look, you guys are the only rational species down there.

02:13:51.000 You've got these big brains. 1.00

02:13:53.000 You've got to be born before it takes you years and years to actually get where you can survive on your own because you've got these big fucking brains. 1.00

02:14:01.000 See? 1.00

02:14:02.000 Yeah.

02:14:02.000 So, we're kind of like nature's answer to all of this.

02:14:06.000 You know, only one species right now has the ability to intercede and prevent the next global catastrophe, and that's us.

02:14:17.000 Do we rise to that challenge or do we say, well, we're going to let nature run its course and if 50% of the species disappear, civilization is over, we go back to the Stone Age, struggling for existence, well, so be it.

02:14:30.000 That's what's in the cards.

02:14:31.000 Or do we say, you know what, We could within one generation be harvesting the resources of asteroids, which we could be, if we had the will and the vision.

02:14:41.000 And the thing is, is that the most dangerous asteroids that are out there is the closer they get to the Earth, the more accessible they are.

02:14:49.000 And you see, we already could be harvesting the resources of asteroids.

02:14:53.000 I mean, asteroids are loaded with precious metals and ores and hydrocarbons.

02:14:58.000 There's virtually nothing that we are now mining from the Earth that we couldn't mine from asteroids.

02:15:03.000 Wow.

02:15:04.000 What does that suggest to you?

02:15:06.000 Well, and think about this.

02:15:09.000 I like to kind of imagine these scenarios.

02:15:11.000 Suppose we had discovered, remember Shoemaker-Levy 9?

02:15:17.000 Yes.

02:15:18.000 Okay, discovered in March of 1996, within about eight weeks of observations, the astronomers were able to predict that these fragmenting pieces were going to orbit the Sun and come back and be crossing the orbit of Jupiter at exactly the time that Jupiter was there,

02:15:34.000 right?

02:15:35.000 There was going to be a t-bone collision.

02:15:37.000 It was like two vehicles coming to the intersection at the same time.

02:15:40.000 And they were able to predict that, right down to almost to the minute, to the hemisphere, What if we discovered that there's an asteroid orbiting the Sun out there that's got our number on it and it was going to strike the Earth in 3 years or 10 years or 20 years or whatever?

02:15:55.000 What would be our response to it?

02:15:58.000 What would we do?

02:15:59.000 I think globally it would be, there would have to be some sort of a collective effort.

02:16:04.000 Yeah.

02:16:05.000 The scientists from China and Russia and all these different various countries that have vast technological capabilities would probably get together and have some sort of an agreement.

02:16:15.000 I would think that that would have to happen.

02:16:17.000 And in fact, it would probably make our petty human conflicts pale into insignificance.

02:16:25.000 If we were faced with the demise of our civilization or even possibly our species.

02:16:32.000 But suppose we discovered it and it's coming in a couple of years and there's no time to respond.

02:16:40.000 What could we do?

02:16:41.000 Well, perhaps if we had a long enough lead time, we could actually deflect.

02:16:47.000 All we need to do is an asteroid that's on a collision course with the Earth.

02:16:52.000 All it has to do is be nudged a little bit.

02:16:55.000 And a direct hit can be a wide miss.

02:16:57.000 See, that's all we would have to do is just nudge it a little.

02:17:00.000 And there's various potential technologies whereby we could do that.

02:17:03.000 But what if we didn't have enough lead time and we knew that it was going to slam into the earth and for a thousand years going to be havoc?

02:17:13.000 What would we do?

02:17:14.000 Well, perhaps we could go build a base on the moon.

02:17:17.000 Or build something in space that would allow humans to survive at least until the dust settled enough that we could return and begin to replenish the earth.

02:17:27.000 Do you know what a bummer it would be if you had a base on the moon and everyone was living there and you watched the earth blow up?

02:17:32.000 Total bummer.

02:17:33.000 But it would be an even bigger bummer if you didn't have it and you were sitting on the earth knowing that that's it, man, that's all she wrote.

02:17:42.000 How many different times do you think this has happened while human beings are alive?

02:17:47.000 The great speculation has always been when they see the pyramids or when they see any incredible structures that we really haven't totally explained how they built.

02:18:00.000 Like Baalbek in Lebanon, how advanced were they? 1.00

02:18:06.000 How advanced were they before the shit hit the fan? 0.99

02:18:11.000 It seems to me that in order, you know, you gotta go, why would primitive cultures move rocks that weighed 200 to 1,000 tons apparently with impunity? 0.99

02:18:25.000 They were doing it all over the planet, right?

02:18:28.000 Why would somebody be motivated?

02:18:30.000 I mean, you know, like again, I'm a builder, so I know how much work it takes to move even a, you know, without a crane, without modern technology, to move a beam into place that weighs a ton, right?

02:18:42.000 Well, you know, we've got stones in some of these ancient temples that weigh hundreds of tons.

02:18:48.000 And again, all over the world, It seems to me difficult to imagine that they didn't have some kind of a technology that we've forgotten.

02:18:59.000 What that technology is, I couldn't say.

02:19:03.000 But it would sure seem to me that there would be no motive for moving 500-ton stones unless you had some convenient way of doing it.

02:19:13.000 Or if not a convenient way of doing it, just explain how an inconvenient way they could have done it.

02:19:22.000 When you get to something like the Acropolis or the Parthenon, That's on the Acropolis, right?

02:19:27.000 Isn't that what it is?

02:19:28.000 The Acropolis is the stone and the Parthenon is what's on it.

02:19:31.000 The Acropolis is the hill with the whole complex on it.

02:19:34.000 And the Parthenon is one of those temples.

02:19:37.000 The Acropolis is a man-made construction that has massive, massive stones that they just don't explain.

02:19:44.000 Yeah.

02:19:44.000 I mean, they're there.

02:19:46.000 They're in Cusco, in South America.

02:19:50.000 They're in Egypt.

02:19:52.000 Yeah.

02:19:53.000 Yeah, there it is.

02:19:53.000 The Baalbek one is actually probably even more impressive, Jamie.

02:19:56.000 See if you can pull that up.

02:19:57.000 The stones of Baal... 0.70

02:19:59.000 How do you spell it?

02:20:00.000 B-A-A-L-B-E-K. And these stones are just unbelievably big.

02:20:08.000 Yeah.

02:20:09.000 And no explanation for how they moved them, cut them, quarried them, got them into place, and what year it was all done.

02:20:17.000 Right.

02:20:18.000 That's one vision of it, or a picture of it, but if you search for others, there's actually a close-up of the actual stones themselves, and they show people standing next to the stone, so you get a perspective of it.

02:20:32.000 Much taller than a human being.

02:20:35.000 In fact, I think 10 or 11 feet tall in some places. 0.98

02:20:40.000 Like, there's one rock, just like, who the fuck moved that? 0.75

02:20:44.000 But some of the stones... 0.87

02:20:46.000 Dude, that's not a good one, Jamie.

02:20:47.000 There's some where you can see the massive amount of stone that was in each individual one.

02:20:54.000 Some of them are literally building-sized, and it's just an individual stone.

02:20:59.000 And, yeah, there's one. 0.99

02:21:01.000 Like, what the fuck, man? 1.00

02:21:03.000 What the fuck is that? 1.00

02:21:05.000 That is so big! 1.00

02:21:06.000 Yeah.

02:21:09.000 Right.

02:21:11.000 Right.

02:21:25.000 So when you see the constructions of the Great Pyramids, which is one of the great wonders of the world, and to this day, they're always trying to come up with ways that they did it, but the sheer size, and to put it into perspective, if you cut, I think the number is 10 stones a day.

02:21:41.000 There's 2,300,000 plus stones in the Great Pyramid of Giza.

02:21:47.000 And if you cut and place 10 a day, it would take you 664 years.

02:21:55.000 Yeah, having seen the Great Pyramid and many of the temples in Egypt, I'm convinced that they had to have some means that we've forgotten about for transporting these stones.

02:22:08.000 They may have used fairly primitive methods to quarry the stones, but when it comes to transporting the stones, You know, I mean, we could imagine that they're putting them on rollers and dragging them over, you know,

02:22:24.000 Hill and Dale.

02:22:24.000 But again, you got to go, really?

02:22:28.000 All over the whole planet?

02:22:31.000 It's one of those things, it's like the demise of the frozen woolly mammoths.

02:22:35.000 There's just no real explanation.

02:22:37.000 And we can invoke explanations that are basically designed to avoid the implications of admitting that there may have been advanced knowledge, scientific knowledge, in prehistory.

02:22:50.000 And that somehow or another that knowledge was lost, whether it was because of the burning of the Library of Alexandria or whether it was just a cataclysmic event that wiped out a massive amount of the population and what was remaining was buildings like that.

02:23:07.000 Those things survived and then people tried to recreate them.

02:23:11.000 People eventually figured out some of the techniques and made similar structures.

02:23:17.000 But not over a period of 1,000 years or 2,000 years, but maybe 20, 30,000 years.

02:23:25.000 That's always been the work of Graham Hancock, the ideas.

02:23:29.000 They bounced around.

02:23:30.000 And I remember there was that Charlton Heston narrated documentary on the Sphinx where they had gone into great detail about the erosion.

02:23:40.000 They brought in the geologist Robert Schock from Boston University.

02:23:43.000 I know Robert.

02:23:43.000 Yeah.

02:23:44.000 Yeah.

02:23:44.000 I want to get him on the podcast, too.

02:23:45.000 He's a fascinating cat.

02:23:47.000 He is.

02:23:47.000 And he concluded that the Temple of the Sphinx, the enclosure where it was cut out of, shows thousands of years of erosion by rainfall, which there wasn't rainfall in the Nile Valley before 9,000 years ago,

02:24:04.000 which predates the pyramid construction, the average Or the conventional dating of the pyramid, there it is right there, some of his explanations, predates what the conventional date of the pyramid is by more than 5,000 years.

02:24:21.000 Oh, I'm convinced.

02:24:22.000 And I've had conversations with Robert where he will basically say he's got one number for public consumption, but he's perfectly willing to admit that perhaps the Sphinx is much, much older than that.

02:24:34.000 What's the dark number?

02:24:35.000 What's the crazy number?

02:24:36.000 Oh, I think the crazy number is tens of thousands of years.

02:24:41.000 If you pull up...

02:24:43.000 It's not that crazy, though.

02:24:44.000 Now, it was kind of crazy when that Charlton Heston documentary was around, but now that they found Gobekli Tepe, and they know that 14,000, 12,000 years ago, whatever it was, they were absolutely building these enormous,

02:25:00.000 immense structures.

02:25:02.000 That would be, what, 8,000 years, 7,000 years earlier than the pyramids?

02:25:09.000 Exactly.

02:25:10.000 Not that big a deal.

02:25:11.000 Not that big of a deal.

02:25:12.000 The conventional dating of the Great Period of Giza is 2500 BC, which may be correct, but it still doesn't mean that the Sphinx wasn't way, way older than that.

02:25:23.000 Way older than that, exactly.

02:25:25.000 And, you know, I'm convinced, having seen it firsthand, that that erosion is water-induced.

02:25:30.000 I've looked at a lot of erosion over the years.

02:25:33.000 And, you know, it's got the classic parabolic profile that you would expect if you started out with an initially square.

02:25:41.000 Jamie, open up the PowerPoint show entitled Cataclysmus Global Superflood.

02:25:48.000 Cataclysmus Global Superflood.

02:25:50.000 That's my new band.

02:25:52.000 It's going to be my new band.

02:25:54.000 Go for it, man.

02:25:55.000 Cataclysmos.

02:25:56.000 Cataclysmos was the Greek term for the destruction of the world by water.

02:25:59.000 Oh, wow.

02:26:00.000 It's from where we get our term cataclysm.

02:26:02.000 Whoa.

02:26:04.000 And their term, see, you know, the Greeks believed that they were alternating destructions of the world by water and fire, right? 0.74

02:26:12.000 Ekpirosis was the term, Greek term, for the destruction of the world by fire.

02:26:17.000 Yeah.

02:26:18.000 And cataclysmus of water.

02:26:22.000 This stuff is so unbelievably fascinating.

02:26:25.000 Because there's no way that you can attribute all of this stuff, all of these ancient structures, there's no way you can attribute it to what we know about their culture.

02:26:40.000 We don't know enough.

02:26:41.000 There's just not enough evidence.

02:26:43.000 We don't know enough about Ancient Egypt or their construction methods.

02:26:50.000 There's so much thinking, so much guesswork.

02:26:57.000 When you look at these giant structures and you wonder, what were they doing?

02:27:03.000 How did they do this?

02:27:04.000 Who were they like?

02:27:05.000 It's so fascinating.

02:27:07.000 I would just, I would love to be able to go back in time as a giant bulletproof bubble.

02:27:12.000 I know.

02:27:13.000 And just hover over ancient Egypt.

02:27:15.000 What was going on back then?

02:27:17.000 I know.

02:27:17.000 What did you guys know?

02:27:19.000 Jamie, go to, you've got a global super flood.

02:27:22.000 What is this image?

02:27:24.000 Go to slide 58. Slide 58. The infamous slide 58. Hanger 18 and slide 58. Ah, there it is.

02:27:36.000 Wow, that's beautiful.

02:27:38.000 Okay.

02:27:39.000 That's amazing.

02:27:39.000 Now, what you can see there is...

02:27:42.000 You've got to get on the microphone.

02:27:44.000 Get on the microphone there.

02:27:45.000 The Valley Temple.

02:27:46.000 You can see it.

02:27:46.000 Look up there.

02:27:46.000 Oh, yeah.

02:27:47.000 Okay.

02:27:47.000 The Valley Temple with stones quarried from...

02:27:52.000 The ditch around the Sphinx.

02:27:54.000 You got to remember what the Sphinx is that originally it was a yardang, which is a limestone outcrop that sticks above the surrounding landscape.

02:28:03.000 The yardang was the head of the Sphinx. 0.97

02:28:05.000 Everything else was below.

02:28:07.000 Now go to the next slide, Jamie.

02:28:10.000 Okay, there you can really see the ditch surrounding the Sphinx.

02:28:14.000 And the layers forming the Sphinx body correspond to the layers in the surrounding ditch.

02:28:19.000 Now, to me, you'll notice the scaffolding next to the Sphinx.

02:28:24.000 They're undertaking these campaigns of quote-unquote restoration.

02:28:29.000 It's gross.

02:28:29.000 But what they're actually doing is they're covering up the real message of the Sphinx.

02:28:33.000 Yeah, why are they doing that?

02:28:35.000 Why are they bothering to try to rebuild the thing?

02:28:37.000 I don't know. 1.00

02:28:38.000 It's so stupid. 1.00

02:28:39.000 You're not rebuilding it, you're building new shit. 1.00

02:28:42.000 Yeah, you're just refacing it with new stones. 1.00

02:28:45.000 It's so gross.

02:28:47.000 But at least nobody is messing with the quarry walls where you can see the water erosion so effectively displayed.

02:28:55.000 Go to the next slide, Jamie.

02:28:59.000 Now, what we see here is an abandoned quarry.

02:29:03.000 It's hard to tell the scale here because that opening is like 40 feet high.

02:29:08.000 But if you look at, you see the striations in the rock wall?

02:29:12.000 Okay, this is where they quarried the blocks, right, and removed the blocks.

02:29:17.000 Go to the next slide, Jamie.

02:29:20.000 Okay, this kind of shows the methodology that they use.

02:29:23.000 They would create these separation trenches.

02:29:26.000 They would usually go by the natural bedding layers of the rock.

02:29:32.000 Go to the next slide, and you'll see here, here's The presumed process where they're cutting a separation trench, and there's a block about to be quarried there, and then you can see there would have been a stack of four blocks there.

02:29:47.000 And these blocks are enormous, several tons.

02:29:49.000 Oh, yeah, that block there would be, looks like it's probably about four by eight by probably ten, so like 320 cubic feet at 160. Per, so, or 180. So you're looking at about 57,000 pounds divided by 2,000.

02:30:09.000 So yeah, about 30 tons.

02:30:12.000 Jesus Christ.

02:30:13.000 About 30 tons for that rock right there.

02:30:15.000 Now go to the next slide.

02:30:17.000 30 tons.

02:30:18.000 Okay, now, the reason I'm showing you this is because this is the process they would have used to quarry the blocks away from the...

02:30:26.000 The surrounding the Sphinx and exposed a quarry wall.

02:30:30.000 Well, at the time that quarry wall was exposed, it would have been essentially a flat surface with this slightly stepped profile like we saw in the photograph, right?

02:30:40.000 Now go to the next slide.

02:30:43.000 Right, so there's now would be a cross section with all of the blocks removed.

02:30:48.000 Okay, go to the next slide.

02:30:50.000 And what we have here is stone pick marks in a limestone quarry from Rameseed times about 1200 BC, so about 3200 years ago.

02:31:01.000 So here's a limestone face of a quarry that's been exposed for 3200 years.

02:31:07.000 And it seems like they used some sort of a chisel to get that out.

02:31:10.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:31:11.000 The pick marks are still visible.

02:31:13.000 Go to the next slide.

02:31:14.000 Okay, here's stone pick marks in a quarry from the early New Kingdom, circa 15. So 3,500 years ago, you can actually determine the type of tool that they used to quarry the rocks, the picks or the chisels.

02:31:29.000 Go to the next one.

02:31:30.000 Based on the marks that are on the rocks itself.

02:31:32.000 Based on the marks, yeah.

02:31:32.000 And here you see that the chisel marks or pick marks made by stone picks in an Old Kingdom limestone quarry 2,000 years BC. So here's a 4,000 year old quarry that's been sitting exposed to the desert elements and the pick marks are still visible on the face.

02:31:48.000 Now go to the next slide.

02:31:50.000 Now here's the sphinx.

02:31:52.000 Go to the next slide and look at that quarry wall.

02:31:56.000 Yeah, that's crazy.

02:31:57.000 It's crazy.

02:31:58.000 Yeah.

02:31:59.000 Now supposedly this quarry wall is only a few centuries older than that last picture we just saw where we could see the pick marks.

02:32:07.000 Does that make sense?

02:32:08.000 Well, the only way it would make sense is if there was a vastly different type of stone.

02:32:13.000 Well, it's not, though.

02:32:14.000 It's the same.

02:32:15.000 It's a well-indurated limestone.

02:32:17.000 Robert can tell you all about the composition of that stone.

02:32:20.000 But the composition does vary, though, am I correct?

02:32:23.000 Some of it's more dense than others, and that's indicative of the changes.

02:32:28.000 Yeah, and you can see that that indented layer about halfway up is going to be a softer limestone.

02:32:33.000 Absolutely.

02:32:34.000 It certainly looks to the layman, and I'm clearly a layman, but it certainly looks like water fissures, like fissures that are from rainfall.

02:32:43.000 Even to the trained eye, it looks like water.

02:32:46.000 But some legit Egyptologists and even legit geologists have tried to attribute this to wind and sand.

02:32:56.000 Well, again, you know, Robert has shown pictures of the comparison of wind erosion to sand erosion or water erosion.

02:33:03.000 They don't look the same.

02:33:04.000 So the only reason to attribute this to wind and sand, it's not based on the scientific evidence of what it looks like when there's water erosion.

02:33:12.000 It's to confirm or to conform with the known or established timeline of construction.

02:33:18.000 Yes.

02:33:18.000 Yes, and that's why I showed you those examples of other quarry, like that Old Kingdom quarry that's almost the same age as this.

02:33:25.000 So it's actually really not scientific to try to attribute it to wind and sand.

02:33:30.000 It's just, what you're doing is confirming to confirmation bias.

02:33:33.000 You have an idea in your head and you're trying to make this really odd erosion fit into that.

02:33:42.000 But that doesn't look like wind and sand.

02:33:45.000 Go to the next slide, Jeremy.

02:33:46.000 It looks smooth and liquid.

02:33:48.000 Jamie.

02:33:50.000 I'll call him Jam Band.

02:33:51.000 That's what everybody calls him around here.

02:33:52.000 Okay.

02:33:53.000 So there's the depth of the ditch.

02:33:57.000 It's about 22 feet.

02:33:58.000 And there it shows each of the layers.

02:34:00.000 Like if you look at layer 11, that's going to be a softer limestone.

02:34:03.000 It's eroded deeper.

02:34:04.000 Right.

02:34:07.000 Now go to the next slide, and you'll see what I've done is superimposed what the original profile would have looked like.

02:34:14.000 And there's been an enormous amount of rock, limestone rock, removed.

02:34:18.000 And we know the profile would have looked like that because the stones that were quarried are what make up the Sphinx and Valley Temples.

02:34:25.000 Right.

02:34:25.000 And those have been eroded as well, but unfortunately they've covered that up with this reconstruction.

02:34:31.000 Well, most likely, most likely, and I think Robert would confirm this, that the limestone blocks that formed those temples were sheathed in hard granite.

02:34:41.000 Whereas this quarry wall was not.

02:34:43.000 It was exposed.

02:34:44.000 Well, then there's also the issue of the Sphinx head itself, which seems to have been altered.

02:34:49.000 This is a timeline thing that folks may or may not know, but Egypt changed quite a bit.

02:34:58.000 Ancient Egypt was around for thousands and thousands of years, and at some point...

02:35:02.000 They were conquered by the Nubians.

02:35:03.000 And the more African, what we think of as traditional African, obviously Egypt is part of Africa, but the more traditional looking African faces is what you see in the current face in the Temple of the Sphinx. 0.98

02:35:16.000 So probably what had happened is a later date pharaoh said, you know what, fuck this lion, I want my face up there. 0.95

02:35:23.000 So they put the face of this... 0.99

02:35:26.000 Probably Kefren. 0.57

02:35:28.000 And I think both John Anthony West and Robert Schock...

02:35:32.000 That's why there's so little erosion on that face.

02:35:35.000 Right.

02:35:35.000 Because that face is only a few thousand years old.

02:35:37.000 And why it would be disproportionately small compared to the rest of the body.

02:35:41.000 Wow.

02:35:41.000 So fascinating.

02:35:43.000 I would give so much to know what they knew then.

02:35:46.000 At any point in time to go back in human history and just to be able to observe, that would be the time.

02:35:52.000 Just the middle of Egypt. 0.59

02:35:54.000 I would love to see what it looked like before they raided it and took off.

02:35:58.000 For folks who don't know, It was covered in smooth limestone and they cut it all up to build Cairo.

02:36:05.000 They raided it.

02:36:06.000 Yeah, there was an earthquake that flattened Cairo and you know they had attempted to penetrate the Great Pyramid prior to that without success.

02:36:14.000 But apparently the earthquake, which I think it happened in the 12th century, loosened a few rocks from near the top of the pyramid that allowed them to get some levers in there and begin to pry them loose. 1.00

02:36:28.000 I've read a bunch of fucking assholes. 1.00

02:36:31.000 Talk about vandalism. 1.00

02:36:32.000 Now get this.

02:36:33.000 Whether this is true or not, we have no way of knowing.

02:36:35.000 But there are many, many Arabic accounts and counts of early travelers and pretty much they all unanimously declare that the entire outside of the pyramid was inscribed.

02:36:49.000 Now think about that.

02:36:51.000 What in the hell would that have been telling?

02:36:53.000 What kind of message was that that was being sent to the future?

02:36:57.000 That must have been amazing.

02:36:59.000 Yeah, I get my hair stands up on my legs just thinking about it.

02:37:04.000 Inscribed.

02:37:05.000 Yeah.

02:37:06.000 Hey, listen. 1.00

02:37:07.000 There's rocks in space and occasionally they land and when they do, you're fucked. 1.00

02:37:12.000 Build one of these. 0.99

02:37:13.000 Get inside.

02:37:15.000 Wait for further instruction.

02:37:17.000 Yeah.

02:37:19.000 It's amazing that they're still there.

02:37:21.000 I mean, if that thing existed, if Robert Schock is corrected and that thing existed before the Holocene events, those are the only types of structures that would still be here.

02:37:34.000 Yeah, exactly. 0.71

02:37:35.000 How the fuck did people make it through there? 0.94

02:37:37.000 I wonder what the number was. 0.99

02:37:39.000 Well, I'm going to tell you.

02:37:40.000 The Adam and Eve story.

02:37:41.000 Here's my theory on it.

02:37:43.000 All over the world we have traditions about catastrophes and cataclysms and giant floods.

02:37:50.000 All over the world they've come down to us.

02:37:54.000 And there's a lot of deviation but there's also a lot of similarity in them.

02:37:59.000 The idea that a small group had some kind of foreknowledge, you know, whether it was Noah in the Bible or Deucalion in the Greek myths or Utnapishtim in the Sumerian myths or Zisithris or Manu.

02:38:10.000 I mean, the culture heroes that survived these great cataclysmic floods are in the dozens and dozens, right?

02:38:18.000 American Indians had prolific We're good to go. 1.00

02:38:50.000 They all had one thing in common, that they were descended from survivors of some gigantic cataclysmic event.

02:38:59.000 That's American Indians.

02:39:00.000 You find it in North America.

02:39:01.000 You find it in South America.

02:39:03.000 You find it in the Polynesian Islands.

02:39:05.000 You find it in Australia, Japan.

02:39:08.000 I mean, it's around the entire planet, this idea.

02:39:12.000 And now, modern science is confirming what we assumed was merely some kind of superstitious nonsense of, you know, Pre-scientific illiterate barbarians. 0.83

02:39:24.000 And we're realizing that those myths and those stories and epic tales that have been handed down for centuries and centuries actually contain hard scientific truth from surviving eyewitnesses.

02:39:34.000 Well, if these craters actually do exist, and they do, right?

02:39:38.000 Oh, they do.

02:39:39.000 The Holocene crater is undeniable.

02:39:40.000 The nuclear glass throughout Asia and Europe, undeniable. 0.78

02:39:44.000 Human beings were alive then.

02:39:46.000 Yes. 0.99

02:39:46.000 And if human beings were alive then, they got fucked up. 0.99

02:39:50.000 There's no doubt about it. 1.00

02:39:51.000 Yeah.

02:39:52.000 They did.

02:39:52.000 They would have suffered enormously.

02:39:55.000 And just like, you know, if three-quarters of the species of animals in North America went extinct, do you think that the 25% surviving came through completely unscathed?

02:40:06.000 No, it simply means that there's a threshold above which a species is viable.

02:40:12.000 It can survive.

02:40:13.000 And below which, you know, there may have been survivors, but there just weren't enough of them.

02:40:19.000 They were too widely scattered.

02:40:21.000 Serious habitat loss which would have diminished food supply and they just died out.

02:40:26.000 But either directly or indirectly as a result of these catastrophic environmental changes that accompanied the ending of the Ice Age.

02:40:34.000 Humans had to have been affected by this and All of the myths and the stories would totally concur with that idea, you know, that there were humans, and they're all consistent with this one detail, that there were some humans that had foreknowledge.

02:40:50.000 And so they built arcs.

02:40:51.000 Decalian built an arc, just like Noah did. 0.99

02:40:53.000 Utnapishtim built an arc.

02:40:55.000 Zisithris built an arc.

02:40:57.000 Manu built an arc.

02:40:59.000 Where are these stories coming from?

02:41:01.000 You know, are they just completely conjured up independently of one another, and that detail is just thrown in?

02:41:06.000 Or is there some kind of a reality behind this, that there were people who had foreknowledge?

02:41:12.000 Well, if there were people that had foreknowledge, it suggests to me that there were two groups of survivors.

02:41:20.000 Those who survived because they intentionally They had foreknowledge.

02:41:26.000 They took steps to secure their survival.

02:41:29.000 In Freemasonry, there's the account of Lamech or the account of Enoch.

02:41:34.000 There's variants on it.

02:41:36.000 But Enoch, the story of Enoch in Masonic tradition says that Enoch had, you know, he was in the patriarchs before Noah, had this foreknowledge that the world was going to be destroyed either by fire or flood.

02:41:50.000 So he created this underground vault.

02:41:52.000 It was Deep underground, and it was preserved within nine layers of stone.

02:41:58.000 It was a nine-layered vault.

02:42:03.000 Unless you had the key to how to access this vault, which was now like a time capsule that preserved the science and the knowledge and the wisdom of the pre-diluvian world or pre-flood world, He then set up two pillars,

02:42:20.000 a pillar of brass and a pillar of marble.

02:42:22.000 The pillar of brass designed to withstand the effects of the cataclysm, the watery destruction.

02:42:27.000 The pillar of marble, if I'm remembering it right, was to withstand the destruction by fire.

02:42:34.000 So there were these two pillars that basically informed any survivors that there was this nine-chambered underground vault that contained the secrets of the previous World Age that was coming to a pass.

02:42:47.000 And that's an intrinsic part of Masonic tradition.

02:42:50.000 In fact, the whole Masonic symbolism is based around that idea.

02:42:54.000 And it has parallels throughout other traditions as well.

02:42:59.000 Well, what I'm getting at here is if there were some people who had foreknowledge of it and took steps to survive, they were the ones who preserved the knowledge of the anti-Diluvian world order. 0.85

02:43:16.000 The other survivors just survived by the luck of the draw, like that tree standing there, right?

02:43:21.000 They just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

02:43:23.000 They survived, but now they are going to be the ones who are going to be wholly preoccupied simply with the task of surviving, finding enough food to eat and shelter because clearly the planetary environment was going through all kinds of changes.

02:43:39.000 Whereas the other group had taken actual steps to survive and preserve knowledge.

02:43:44.000 Now, when we look at the beginning of recorded history, 4,000 to 5,000 years ago, we're basically halfway back through the Holocene, right?

02:43:53.000 Okay, let's, for purposes of conjecture, assume that at the end of the Holocene, human population crashed.

02:44:02.000 Well, if you want to build a pyramid or a great temple, you've got to have a labor force, right?

02:44:07.000 Well, if you've got scattered bands of survivors, you basically aren't going to be able to accomplish that.

02:44:14.000 Now, let's assume that you've got two groups of humanity, one that's sitting there with all of this knowledge at their disposal.

02:44:20.000 Just like, imagine it if our modern society was wiped off the face of the earth, but somebody somewhere in some deep cave underground was able to preserve our knowledge of physics and chemistry and the various sciences.

02:44:33.000 Well, obviously, in order to run this computer that we're running here, to do this broadcast requires an intact, huge intact infrastructure, right?

02:44:41.000 Well, we could know how to build a computer, we could know how to broadcast, but if we don't have the infrastructure, we're just sitting on information, right?

02:44:50.000 Well, let's assume that you have a group that survived, right?

02:44:54.000 And they're the custodians of this body of knowledge, right?

02:44:59.000 Now it takes 3,000, 4,000, 5,000 years for the human population to reconstitute itself, and now you've got a labor force.

02:45:08.000 And let's suppose that there's going to be another cataclysm impending.

02:45:12.000 You know, such as the one that perhaps caused the NOAA's flood, which, you know, there's evidence now that around 5,000 years ago, there was an asteroid impact into the Indian Ocean, right?

02:45:24.000 That plunged through two miles of ocean water and blasted a 12-mile-wide hole on the floor of the Indian Ocean.

02:45:31.000 And what year was this?

02:45:32.000 This would have been about 5,000 years ago.

02:45:34.000 Now, how much of an impact would that have had?

02:45:37.000 Oh, it would have created tsunamis.

02:45:39.000 Well, on the island of Madagascar, on the southern island of Madagascar, and it should be in this program that we've got open right here, Jamie.

02:45:50.000 If you go to slide number...

02:45:54.000 Yeah, go to slide number 111. It's so ironic that today our focus is closer and closer to the cloud, closer and closer to chips,

02:46:11.000 to solid state hard drives, all these different things that are just not going to last.

02:46:16.000 Right.

02:46:16.000 No paper, no one's carving anything in stone.

02:46:20.000 You know, the knowledge that we have is, like, how much of what everybody has is on hard drives?

02:46:27.000 I mean, how much of what everybody has is in the cloud on a, you know, on a server somewhere?

02:46:32.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:46:32.000 And who the fuck is going to be able to figure out how to read that shit a thousand years from now? 0.99

02:46:37.000 Yeah, just like... 1.00

02:46:37.000 If anything happened to us. 1.00

02:46:38.000 Yeah, just like we're trying to figure out how to read Egyptian high enoughs.

02:46:42.000 Okay, look at slide number 111. Now...

02:46:45.000 I wish I had my pointer here.

02:46:48.000 Go to the next slide so you can see.

02:46:50.000 Okay, right there.

02:46:51.000 You see those wiggly things?

02:46:53.000 It's like dragon scales.

02:46:55.000 Yeah.

02:46:55.000 What that is, is it's water, ocean water that washed on land and washed up and you see it kind of comes to a point and then it washed back out.

02:47:07.000 This is a tsunami deposit.

02:47:09.000 And those features that you're looking at, they kind of look like this.

02:47:13.000 They're called chevrons, right?

02:47:16.000 That's what happens when the water washes in, makes deposits of giant ripples, and then washes back out.

02:47:23.000 What kind of time frame are you talking about when this happens?

02:47:25.000 How long does it take to do that?

02:47:27.000 Oh, hours.

02:47:29.000 So that all happened in hours?

02:47:31.000 In hours, yeah.

02:47:32.000 And you could still see it today?

02:47:33.000 Oh, yeah.

02:47:34.000 Go to the next slide, Jamie.

02:47:36.000 We're getting a closer-up look here.

02:47:37.000 Now, you see how they're shaped almost V-like?

02:47:41.000 That's the chevron, like a sergeant stripe almost.

02:47:44.000 Right.

02:47:45.000 Okay, go to the next slide.

02:47:47.000 Okay, here's a cross-section of one of those V-shaped hills.

02:47:51.000 It's 600 feet in height.

02:47:53.000 Wow!

02:47:54.000 That's incredible.

02:47:56.000 Now what's that?

02:47:56.000 So what you're seeing in the...

02:47:57.000 Back that up one more, Jamie.

02:47:59.000 So those images right there, what we're seeing...

02:48:03.000 There it looks like the effects of a river or water or something.

02:48:08.000 It is water, yes.

02:48:09.000 But then when you go back, you see it from the ground, it looks like hills.

02:48:13.000 Yeah, 600 feet high.

02:48:14.000 So you're talking about a massive amount of water.

02:48:18.000 We're talking about a tsunami whose minimum run-up height is the height, the thickness of these hills.

02:48:24.000 600 feet.

02:48:25.000 Minimum.

02:48:26.000 Minimum.

02:48:26.000 And that's, of course, massive amount of weight and devastation.

02:48:31.000 And this was all 5,000 years ago?

02:48:32.000 Yeah.

02:48:33.000 Go to the next slide, Jamie.

02:48:37.000 Yeah, there's Madagascar.

02:48:39.000 Location of the Chevrons on the southern edge of Madagascar.

02:48:43.000 Let's see.

02:48:43.000 Go two slides up.

02:48:47.000 And over on the other side, at the same age, if we look at the southwestern coast of Australia, I think the next slide will get a closer in view.

02:48:56.000 There we go.

02:48:57.000 You see that splooge?

02:48:59.000 That's the technical scientific term.

02:49:02.000 Is it really?

02:49:04.000 Splooge?

02:49:04.000 No, I just made that up.

02:49:07.000 But you see the stuff that's been washed over?

02:49:10.000 You can see it.

02:49:11.000 It's very clear there.

02:49:12.000 Okay.

02:49:13.000 That's the other side of the ocean.

02:49:15.000 So the other side of the ocean, directly opposite of where this thing impacted.

02:49:20.000 Yeah.

02:49:21.000 Go to the next...

02:49:22.000 So massive impact in the middle.

02:49:25.000 Yeah.

02:49:26.000 Ancient crash, epic wave.

02:49:27.000 Let's go back to that slide where it says ancient crash, epic wave.

02:49:32.000 Next slide.

02:49:33.000 Keep going.

02:49:34.000 Right there.

02:49:35.000 Right there.

02:49:36.000 Can we read that?

02:49:50.000 Wow. 1.00

02:50:03.000 Holy shit. 1.00

02:50:04.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:50:05.000 Holy shit. 0.98

02:50:07.000 And so if that happened 4,800 years ago, what kind of an impact would that have had on human civilization? 0.98

02:50:16.000 Oh, well, it pretty much would have wiped out anything adjacent to the Indian Ocean.

02:50:21.000 Anything close to it, but what about on the other side of the planet?

02:50:24.000 I mean, there would have to be some massive effects.

02:50:27.000 Oh, there would be.

02:50:27.000 Most likely what we would see on the other side of the planet is extreme weather events, hurricanes, torrential rainfalls, things like that, winds.

02:50:36.000 Kill a huge amount of people worldwide.

02:50:38.000 Could kill a huge amount of people worldwide, yes. 0.96

02:50:42.000 And so that is probably the most recent one.

02:50:44.000 That's probably the most recent one.

02:50:46.000 God!

02:50:46.000 And no record of it.

02:50:48.000 Because people really didn't have many records.

02:50:50.000 Well, I think the record of it is probably when we see these stories, like Noah's Flood and the rest.

02:50:56.000 So that's probably about this one.

02:50:58.000 So it's not even about the Holocene one.

02:51:00.000 It's about one 5,000 years after the Holocene one.

02:51:03.000 Yes.

02:51:04.000 See, that's what we're beginning to realize now, is that these events have happened with a much greater degree of frequency than anybody had imagined.

02:51:13.000 Well, congratulations. 0.84

02:51:14.000 You freaked me the fuck out.

02:51:15.000 I just want to say, you know, you had an objective and you pulled it off.

02:51:19.000 Okay.

02:51:20.000 A five stars A plus freak out.

02:51:23.000 Wow.

02:51:24.000 This has been an intense three hours.

02:51:26.000 It just flew by.

02:51:27.000 Three hours?

02:51:28.000 Yeah, we just did three hours.

02:51:29.000 Wow.

02:51:29.000 It's over.

02:51:30.000 Yeah.

02:51:31.000 Isn't that amazing?

02:51:31.000 Yeah.

02:51:32.000 We got to do this again.

02:51:33.000 I bet you could talk for another 16 hours.

02:51:35.000 Yeah, I mean, we've barely scratched the surface here.

02:51:37.000 Oh, please.

02:51:38.000 Let's do it again.

02:51:39.000 Let's take a couple months off, regroup, and come back in again.

02:51:42.000 Oh, I'd love to.

02:51:43.000 We'll do some more.

02:51:43.000 Please, thank you very much for doing this.

02:51:45.000 I really, really appreciate it.

02:51:46.000 It was incredibly enjoyable, incredibly enlightening for me.

02:51:49.000 I really, really appreciate it.

02:51:50.000 I knew it was going to be like this, just the brief conversation that we had a chance to have in Atlanta.

02:51:55.000 You know, many years ago.

02:51:56.000 I've been looking forward to talking to you again.

02:51:58.000 Thank you very much for doing this.

02:52:00.000 Oh, it's been awesome.

02:52:01.000 I really, really have enjoyed it.

02:52:02.000 If people want to research more of your work, read more of your stuff, where can they go?

02:52:07.000 Where can they find?

02:52:09.000 Go to sacredgeometrieinternational.com And there are links there.

02:52:14.000 I've got another website that's linked from there.

02:52:18.000 In Sacred Geometry International, I deal with a bunch of different stuff, not directly connected necessarily with what we're talking about here, but there will be links to another website that I've got where I'm really exploring the catastrophic stuff.

02:52:31.000 I've got lots of images of things.

02:52:35.000 Yeah, because I've done lots and lots of field exploration.

02:52:40.000 They have thousands of images of just awesome stuff.

02:52:44.000 Does sacred geometry have anything to do with this stuff or is that a totally different subject?

02:52:48.000 Sacred geometry, put it this way, as we've inherited this corpus of ancient knowledge, sacred geometry is one of the keys for deciphering these ancient traditions because all of these ancient temple structures, which are the textbooks in stone,

02:53:03.000 if you will, have several components in common.

02:53:08.000 Astronomical and geometrical being the two predominant.

02:53:12.000 And if you understand the geometry, you realize the geometry is like a universal code whereby you can preserve certain types of information because geometry is universal.

02:53:23.000 It doesn't matter what your spoken language is.

02:53:25.000 The principles of geometry are what they are.

02:53:28.000 You know, the relationship of a radius to a circle is the same and it doesn't matter what culture you come from, you see.

02:53:35.000 And so geometry is a critical means of deciphering the knowledge that, and I think that the predominant way of preserving ancient knowledge is in the temple structures.

02:53:48.000 And they have to be looked at as textbooks in stone.

02:53:51.000 And once we begin to realize that, then we can go...

02:53:53.000 It's like when you go to Egypt, it's not just the hieroglyphs.

02:53:56.000 That's a part of it.

02:53:57.000 But it's also the geometry and the astronomy that's encoded there.

02:54:01.000 And we can see the same astronomy at work whether we're looking in Egypt, whether in geometry, or whether we're looking at megalithic structures in ancient England, or whether we're looking at monumental earthworks up in the Ohio Valley, or we're looking at the...

02:54:17.000 You've been to Chichen Itza, right?

02:54:20.000 Yeah.

02:54:20.000 Okay, that whole complex there is laid out according to principles of sacred geometry and astronomy.

02:54:26.000 And it's exactly the same principles underlying that as we find in Egypt.

02:54:32.000 That will be our next conversation.

02:54:33.000 Oh, it'll be a great conversation.

02:54:34.000 Oh, I can't wait.

02:54:35.000 I can't wait.

02:54:36.000 Thank you so much.

02:54:36.000 Really appreciate it.

02:54:38.000 Randall Carlson, ladies and gentlemen.

02:54:39.000 You can follow him on Twitter.

02:54:41.000 It's sacredgeoint for Sacred Geometry International.

02:54:49.000 Is that what it is?

02:54:50.000 Yeah, so sacredgeoint on Twitter and sacredgeometryinternational.com is the website.

02:54:59.000 Thank you so much, man.

02:55:00.000 Really amazing.

02:55:01.000 And I can't wait to talk to you again.

02:55:03.000 I'm going to start going over your material on your website and gear up to...

02:55:09.000 For our next conversation, man.

02:55:11.000 Just amazing, amazing stuff.

02:55:13.000 Thanks to our sponsors.

02:55:14.000 Thanks to Onnit.com.

02:55:16.000 Go to O-N-N-I-T. Use the code word ROGAN and save 10% off any and all supplements.

02:55:23.000 And thanks also to NatureBox.

02:55:26.000 The official snack provider of the Joe Rogan Experience.

02:55:29.000 Go to naturebox.com forward slash Rogan to save 50% off your first box.

02:55:35.000 That's naturebox.com forward slash Rogan.

02:55:39.000 We'll be back tomorrow with Dr. Rhonda Patrick returns. 1.00

02:55:43.000 And until then, go fuck yourselves. 1.00

02:55:45.000 How about that? 1.00

02:55:46.000 I don't mean it.

02:55:47.000 I don't mean it.

02:55:47.000 I love you.

02:55:48.000 Big kiss.

02:55:49.000 See you soon.

The Joe Rogan Experience - May 15, 2014

Joe Rogan Experience #501 - Randall Carlson

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