The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #606 - Randall Carlson

00:00:01.000 Makes it look like we're on a radio show.

00:00:02.000 Yeah.

00:00:15.000 Yes!

00:00:17.000 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back.

00:00:19.000 Randall Carlson, how are you, sir?

00:00:21.000 I'm doing well, Joe.

00:00:21.000 You freaked out the entire podcast population the last time you were here with your stories of cataclysmic disasters and...

00:00:30.000 And the ramifications of asteroidal impacts and just the evidence that you presented was a real mindfuck, as it were. 0.82

00:00:43.000 Well, what can I say?

00:00:45.000 I apologize to all the listeners out there that might have had nightmares.

00:00:49.000 No worries.

00:00:50.000 I knew that was going to be the case, though.

00:00:52.000 I knew.

00:00:52.000 After the first time I met you, we had that long conversation in Atlanta.

00:00:57.000 I knew once you sat down for three hours on a podcast and opened up about that stuff, it was really going to uncork a lot of people's domes.

00:01:06.000 Well, you know, ironically, there's an upside to the whole thing.

00:01:09.000 Maybe we'll have time to get into that a little bit today.

00:01:12.000 So tell me, you just returned from a long excursion with Graham Hancock.

00:01:12.000 Yeah, definitely.

00:01:17.000 If you want to bend that thing like that towards your face, it'll probably work a little...

00:01:20.000 Yeah, there you go.

00:01:21.000 Like this?

00:01:21.000 Yeah, there you go.

00:01:22.000 You just returned from a long excursion with Graham Hancock.

00:01:27.000 You guys were on the road, and what was the nature of your trip?

00:01:31.000 Well, we were...

00:01:32.000 I was taking Graham on a tour, showing him some landscapes.

00:01:38.000 I could call him the Landscapes of Catastrophe.

00:01:42.000 Because he's doing his sequel to Fingerprints of the Gods.

00:01:46.000 And you know, when he came out with that book in 1995, he was theorizing that there had been this lost civilization in prehistoric times.

00:01:54.000 And you know, the critics, the gist of most of what the critics were attacking him on, and there were considerable attacks on him as a result of some of the things he put forward in that book, was that Well, if there was this great civilization that had existed somewhere back in prehistory,

00:02:14.000 where's the evidence of it?

00:02:15.000 Where is the pottery?

00:02:17.000 Where are the carvings?

00:02:19.000 Where is the infrastructure that would have existed?

00:02:24.000 And, you know, I don't know if he really had an answer for that other than the fact that, you know, there had been cataclysmic events that had intervened between then and now.

00:02:34.000 But he wasn't really specific about what the nature of those catastrophes actually were.

00:02:40.000 And a lot of additional research has come out since 1995 that basically opens the window onto those events that basically separates our modern history which you know the recorded history goes back five or six thousand years you know when we look at at the emergence of modern civilization we would basically trace it back to nine or ten thousand years ago with the emergence of of you know agriculture the

00:03:10.000 dispersion of languages the first cities and so forth when we go beyond that a few thousand years We're in a completely different world and I mean so completely different that it's almost unrecognizable from our modern world.

00:03:26.000 If we started recreating maps going backwards like taking snapshots of the planet every millennium going back what we would see is that going back to seven or eight thousand years ago the basic configuration of our planet would not change much.

00:03:43.000 Once we get 11, 12, 13 thousand years ago, the changes become profoundly dramatic.

00:03:49.000 We start seeing sea levels going down hundreds of feet.

00:03:52.000 We see massive ice sheets covering North America and Europe and lots of other enormous changes.

00:04:00.000 Beyond that is what I consider to be deep history.

00:04:04.000 Because, as we may have talked about in our last interview, you know, we modern humans have been on this planet for 150,000 to 200,000 years, at least.

00:04:14.000 You know, if we go back, say, I think the oldest modern human skeleton ever found was named Homo adultu, and he dates to about 180,000 years, roughly.

00:04:27.000 If we think of a generation of humans as 25 years, that's 7,000 generations of humans, right?

00:04:34.000 Now, so, the question is, what were we doing for all those thousands of generations until somebody finally realized, hey, you know what, we can plant crops, we can, you know, we can build cities, we can form communities,

00:04:51.000 you know, we can invent language, etc., etc.

00:04:54.000 Well, my contention is, and I think the evidence that's accumulating supports this interpretation, that what we're really seeing Seven, eight, nine thousand years ago is not the origins of civilization, but the rebooting of civilization.

00:05:10.000 You see what I'm saying?

00:05:11.000 And when we go back and we realize that Modern history is separated from deep history by this extraordinary series of events that transpired between about 11 and 13 or 14 thousand years ago.

00:05:26.000 Once we begin to recognize how extreme these events were in remodeling our planet, totally remodeling our planet, it then becomes obvious to us why there is not a lot of hard evidence for whatever went on prior to these events.

00:05:45.000 And there's been some things that they've found since then that have really sort of made Graham Hancock's theories become more and more palatable to even mainstream scientists, like Gobekli Tepe.

00:05:57.000 Exactly.

00:05:58.000 Exactly.

00:05:58.000 Gobekli Tepe, Gunang Padang, these are apparently structures that were built at least 11,000 or 12,000 years ago.

00:06:07.000 And I'm waiting to find out the...

00:06:11.000 The most recent ideas on them.

00:06:13.000 I think that probably they go back much older than that.

00:06:16.000 Because from what Graham told me, they're just only in the preliminary stages of being excavated.

00:06:22.000 Yeah, I believe Quebeglie Tempe is less than 10% excavated, right?

00:06:25.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:06:26.000 So this is this enormous ruin that appears to be, you know, Lake Pleistocene Ice Age in age.

00:06:35.000 That apparently was deliberately buried, which is interesting.

00:06:39.000 Brings up a very interesting issue of why would they deliberately bury it.

00:06:44.000 And they know it's deliberately buried because of the uniformity of the age of the dirt?

00:06:48.000 Yes.

00:06:48.000 Is that what it is?

00:06:49.000 I question Graham on that because I wanted to know if it was...

00:06:52.000 Because the first thing I thought to myself was it could be natural because I have seen so many sedimentary deposits caused by great floods.

00:07:01.000 Graham assured me that it was human, that it was deliberate.

00:07:07.000 Because if it had been buried by floods or water, there should be internal stratification.

00:07:12.000 It would be very obvious.

00:07:14.000 I've been giving it some thought, and you know what occurred to me was this, and I ran this by Graham, but I haven't gotten a response from him on this, but I started thinking, if it was deliberately buried, why would they bury it?

00:07:29.000 Then I began thinking what we talked about last time when we were talking about the Tunguska event in Siberia, when you had this massive aerial detonation, you know, that was about a 15 megaton explosion.

00:07:40.000 Okay, now that's equivalent to our biggest hydrogen bombs that used to be in the American arsenal.

00:07:46.000 And it's just because of an asteroid that blew up in our atmosphere.

00:07:49.000 Yeah, about a 150-foot diameter asteroid, which is not that big, really, relative in the cosmic scale of things.

00:07:57.000 The point, though, is that it was moving really, really fast.

00:08:01.000 A rifle bullet, let's say, on average is about 1,000 feet per second.

00:08:06.000 An asteroid coming into the atmosphere is going to be 20 or 30 times that velocity.

00:08:12.000 So it carries an enormous kinetic punch when it hits the atmosphere.

00:08:17.000 It explodes because of the fact that the Earth is not actually absorbing a lot of that energy.

00:08:24.000 It's dispersed widely through the atmosphere.

00:08:27.000 Now think about this.

00:08:29.000 Particularly during the height of the Cold War, in order to protect our missile silos, our super hardened command and control centers, what did we do with them?

00:08:38.000 Put them on the ground.

00:08:39.000 Put them on the ground.

00:08:40.000 We buried them.

00:08:40.000 Exactly.

00:08:41.000 And that, I began to think, perhaps could explain why it was buried, in order to preserve it.

00:08:49.000 Hmm.

00:08:50.000 Against the possibility of some kind of an aerial burst or...

00:08:55.000 You know, some kind of a highly energetic event.

00:08:58.000 That seems a weird thing for 12,000 years ago, no?

00:09:01.000 I mean, we have really no evidence whatsoever that anybody's capable of doing anything like that that long ago.

00:09:08.000 Well, I think on the contrary.

00:09:10.000 Really?

00:09:11.000 I think that what we see at the very beginnings of recorded history is an obsession with the sky.

00:09:17.000 You know, and that's one of the points that Graham brings out in his work, you know, is that humans, our ancestors of 10, 12, 13,000, even, you know, much sooner than that, had just an obsessive concern with events in the sky.

00:09:31.000 And, you know, all of these ancient structures, whether we're talking about Stonehenge, and I'm sure it's going to be the same case with Gobekli Tepe, When we look at this infrastructure from the Mesolithic period through the Neolithic period from six,

00:09:47.000 five, four thousand years ago, three thousand years ago, what we see is that there's this concern with astronomy.

00:09:54.000 The astronomical alignments that are built into these structures actually allow some pretty sophisticated observations of events happening in the sky.

00:10:04.000 And we can maybe pull up some stuff here that I've brought today to look at that.

00:10:08.000 But yeah, I think that it's highly plausible that people back then could have.

00:10:13.000 Because think about this again, to try to put this in context.

00:10:17.000 How many generations ago was the primary mode of human transportation horseback?

00:10:23.000 Not that many.

00:10:24.000 Four or five generations ago.

00:10:25.000 Pretty crazy.

00:10:27.000 Now, think 7,000 generations.

00:10:28.000 Are you going to tell me that in all of that time, all of those generations of humans that have the same, presumably, intelligence as our own because they've got the same brain size, that they're not going to be able to come up with some kind of a transmitted tradition,

00:10:46.000 some type of You know, the idea of somehow, of culture, of civilization, of language, of, you know, that's my point, is that there was so much that has been lost.

00:10:57.000 Once we understand How dynamic this planet really is, it'll become clear to us why we don't have the hard physical record of things going on 20,000 or 30,000 years ago.

00:11:10.000 To put it in perspective for people who have never studied ancient Egypt, Cleopatra, the pyramids, if you look at the date of the pyramids, Cleopatra is closer to us.

00:11:24.000 Yes, yes.

00:11:25.000 Than the pyramids were to Cleopatra.

00:11:27.000 Yeah, which is nuts.

00:11:29.000 You stop and think about that, like, wait a minute, what?

00:11:32.000 They were that old back then?

00:11:34.000 And they've found these little tiny airplanes inside the pyramids.

00:11:40.000 These little miniature, you know, carved airplanes that look like airplanes.

00:11:45.000 People have tried to say, well, no, they represent birds.

00:11:49.000 That doesn't look like a bird at all.

00:11:51.000 I mean, they have a rudder.

00:11:53.000 And they look like planes.

00:11:54.000 Well, yeah, and you know, there are traditions, particularly the Vedic traditions, that are full of descriptions of flying objects.

00:12:00.000 Yes, yes, the Vimanas.

00:12:01.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:12:02.000 So what is that?

00:12:03.000 You know, I'm not going to proclaim unequivocally, it's airplanes, but at the same time, we've got to keep an open mind about it.

00:12:11.000 And the point I'm trying to make is that, yeah, there was so much time that transpired All kinds of things could have happened that have basically been erased.

00:12:19.000 And hopefully by the end of today's interview, you'll have a better clear idea of specifically what some of those things really were.

00:12:28.000 So we're talking about a potential civilization of maybe tens of thousands of years of growth.

00:12:33.000 And if we're looking at what we have from the beginning of The dawn of civilization, we believe Mesopotamia, somewhere around 7,000 years ago.

00:12:41.000 From that till today, we're talking about maybe double or triple that was lost in these gigantic cataclysmic events.

00:12:50.000 Maybe 15, 20,000, 30,000 years of human beings inventing things, people building upon the inventions of others, expanding.

00:12:59.000 And then all of that, boom!

00:13:01.000 Wiped out.

00:13:02.000 We're rubbing sticks together again to start fires.

00:13:04.000 And then whatever...

00:13:07.000 Memories are left.

00:13:08.000 People have to rebuild.

00:13:09.000 A generation or two ago, it was easy to dismiss ideas like that as fringe science.

00:13:14.000 Right.

00:13:15.000 Today, as we sit here in 2015, it's not nearly so easy to dismiss that anymore, particularly what we now know about the history of this planet and how truly dynamic it has been.

00:13:24.000 And that we have, in effect, been sort of blessed the last 6,000 to 10,000 years with a relatively stable climate.

00:13:31.000 And I'm going to show you some graphs here that really will blow your mind, that really will underscore how significant some of these changes have been, how profound some of them have been.

00:13:42.000 And once we know that and begin to incorporate that into our thinking, we realize we're going to have to kind of reevaluate our models of prehistory.

00:13:50.000 Okay, well, we have a new setup now.

00:13:52.000 So with the TriCaster, we're going to allow Randall to take control of the situation here.

00:13:56.000 If you're just listening to this, this might be one of those podcasts where if you're one of those people that listens to it on a commute, you might want to go back and check out the, well, Vimeo or YouTube or those are the ones that Ustream is going to give you HD now too,

00:14:12.000 right?

00:14:12.000 We do, some people don't even know, we do a HD video of this podcast as well.

00:14:16.000 So what is this oxygen isotopes in Greenland?

00:14:20.000 Oxygen isotopes in Greenland, yeah.

00:14:22.000 What we're looking at here, this goes back to the early 90s when, you know, glaciologists and paleoclimatologists, guys who study ancient climate, Extracted these ice cores from the summit of Greenland and the reason they went to the summit was because they were looking for the most undistorted ice core record that they could find.

00:14:40.000 Previous ice core extractions had been near the perimeter of the ice sheets and there the ice flow is much more dynamic so there was more distortion in the record.

00:14:51.000 So what they did was they went to the very center.

00:14:53.000 There was a European team and an American team.

00:14:55.000 And without getting into the background, basically the ice sheet there was almost two miles thick.

00:15:00.000 It took them five years to drill through.

00:15:03.000 Two miles thick?

00:15:05.000 Yes, yes.

00:15:06.000 Just think about how far, like looking, how far two miles away.

00:15:10.000 It's like, what is a plane?

00:15:11.000 A plane's a mile in the air?

00:15:12.000 No, no.

00:15:13.000 Well, a jet's going to be about 30,000 feet.

00:15:15.000 What's a mile?

00:15:16.000 35,000 feet?

00:15:17.000 A mile, now you've got to remember this because it's going to be an important number.

00:15:20.000 5,280 feet.

00:15:22.000 Is a mile?

00:15:23.000 Right.

00:15:23.000 Is a mile.

00:15:24.000 Now, the tallest building in downtown LA is probably not over 800 feet, 1,000 feet at the most.

00:15:30.000 I'm not sure.

00:15:30.000 No.

00:15:31.000 I did look it up at one point what the tallest building was.

00:15:33.000 I don't remember what it was.

00:15:35.000 I know the tallest building in Atlanta is 1,060 feet.

00:15:38.000 And, you know...

00:15:40.000 Two miles, you'd have to think of ten of those stacked on top of each other to get a two mile thick sheet of ice.

00:15:45.000 That's an amazingly huge mass of ice.

00:15:49.000 And that's pretty much the summit of Greenland.

00:15:53.000 And what we're looking at on this graph here, if you go down the left side of the graph, This is, it's the surface.

00:16:02.000 And then down here, this 1500, you see right at the bottom, that's 1500 meters, right?

00:16:07.000 1500 meters, you figure there's about 3.28 feet per meter.

00:16:11.000 So that's going to be 45, it's going to be, yeah, close to 5000. So this is 1500 meters.

00:16:18.000 Roughly a mile.

00:16:19.000 Yeah, a little less than a mile.

00:16:21.000 Over here on the right is the time in thousands of years before the present.

00:16:26.000 So as you go down right there, there's a thousand years.

00:16:29.000 You go down, there's two thousand.

00:16:30.000 Down at the bottom you see ten.

00:16:32.000 So that's ten thousand years ago.

00:16:33.000 Now basically what the oxygen isotopes do, they're a proxy.

00:16:37.000 For temperature change, adjacent to the ice mass, right?

00:16:42.000 And if you look at this, these are snapshots basically taken like every 10 years, right?

00:16:47.000 And what you see here is that the temperature is oscillating back and forth, back and forth.

00:16:53.000 It's 2 to 4 degrees centigrade.

00:16:56.000 Now, to put this into context, the concern, you know, we got into this somewhat last time, the whole issue of global warming, and I know that in some of the feedback we got, some of the most critical comments came from people who didn't like me undermining this whole concept of global warming induced catastrophe,

00:17:15.000 right?

00:17:17.000 What we see here though is clearly that the climate, this is the 10,000 years that we're talking about here is called the Holocene by geologists.

00:17:25.000 It's oscillating back and forth 2 to 4 degrees centigrade every 10, 20, 30 years, right?

00:17:32.000 So we're talking about a degree that has changed basically in the last century to a century and a half.

00:17:39.000 right which which really almost wouldn't even show up here you see but we're going down as we go down we'll see if you go to the right that means temperatures warming you go to the left it means it's cooling right and so as we go back down this is through the Holocene we're going through here and if you look there's some interesting stuff going on right here at about eight thousand two hundred years ago there's a really there's a spike of cooling right there and that was very very significant cooling I mean that was probably It caused the glaciers

00:18:10.000 worldwide to start growing again for a couple of centuries after they had basically disappeared at the end of the Ice Age.

00:18:17.000 So this was a very significant event right here.

00:18:21.000 And then as we get down right here at 10,000, you see it starts deviating to the left, it starts deviating to the cooler.

00:18:26.000 I'm going to go to the next slide where we take this graph and we turn it on its side.

00:18:32.000 And what I've done here is, you see, this is the present right here.

00:18:36.000 And this is basically 10,000 years ago over here on the right side.

00:18:40.000 And I've drawn a level, there's a level green line in here to kind of give you a comparison.

00:18:45.000 And you'll notice something.

00:18:47.000 Here's this 8,200 year ago cold spike.

00:18:50.000 Right?

00:18:51.000 And then as we're going along here, you'll notice something that the general amplitude of these oscillations starts increasing as we get closer to the present.

00:18:59.000 Can you see that?

00:19:00.000 Yeah, it gets bigger.

00:19:00.000 Yeah.

00:19:01.000 And you'll also notice that it's dropping.

00:19:03.000 It's dropping below that green line.

00:19:06.000 And that means it's cooling.

00:19:07.000 So in the last 10,000 years, we went from a period of considerable warmth in the immediate post-glacial era, And then it began to cool off around 6,000 years ago, 5,000 years ago, and as it began to cool off, the temperature oscillations began to increase in magnitude,

00:19:26.000 okay?

00:19:27.000 Which actually contradicts the computer models that are saying the amplitude of the oscillations is going to increase as the climate gets warmer.

00:19:35.000 What we actually see from the Greenland ice cores is the opposite of that, and it's right here in this graph.

00:19:41.000 But what's really significant about this is when we go Back beyond 10,000 years ago.

00:19:47.000 Whoa.

00:19:48.000 And we see this.

00:19:49.000 Jesus Christ.

00:19:51.000 Yeah.

00:19:52.000 For folks who are listening, there's a giant change.

00:19:55.000 I mean, we're looking at little tiny, you know, maybe millimeter left, right, left, right, left, right, up until this point.

00:20:03.000 Now we're looking at huge changes.

00:20:06.000 Huge changes.

00:20:08.000 Catastrophic changes of temperature, yeah.

00:20:11.000 And here we're going back.

00:20:13.000 Notice this is between roughly 11,600 years ago and about 14,000 years ago.

00:20:20.000 Look at what happened right here.

00:20:21.000 You can see right around 15,000 years ago, the climate is actually, if we took this thing out of here, you can see there's almost a trend upwards that gets interrupted right here.

00:20:34.000 Boom! 0.99

00:20:35.000 Boom! 0.99

00:20:35.000 Instantly. 0.99

00:20:36.000 Giant jump.

00:20:36.000 Overnight.

00:20:37.000 Overnight.

00:20:38.000 Overnight, yeah.

00:20:38.000 And in fact, what has happened is if you go back through the literature of climate change and you read the estimates of how long it took for the planet to shift modes from full glacial to the interglacial like we're in now, 50,

00:20:54.000 75 years ago, it was a thousand or more years, thousands of years.

00:20:59.000 When radiocarbon dating came along in the 50s, it began to compress.

00:21:03.000 And what happened is that if you look in the 80s, they're talking about perhaps a century, several centuries.

00:21:10.000 Now comes the Greenland ice cores and other ice cores and other proxies, deep sea cores and so forth, and the correlation of all of this evidence.

00:21:18.000 And it goes from centuries to decades.

00:21:21.000 Well, as the ability to perceive these changes with ever greater precision and ever greater resolution has evolved, it's gotten to now where the change, the climate change that took us from glacial to interglacial happened in less than five years.

00:21:38.000 And that's what we're seeing right here in this graph.

00:21:40.000 What?

00:21:41.000 That's what we're seeing.

00:21:43.000 So 2010, glacier.

00:21:45.000 2015, done.

00:21:47.000 Ice age over. 0.75

00:21:48.000 Glacier, yeah.

00:21:49.000 Bear in mind now that there was a considerable lag between...

00:21:53.000 The actual, the manifestation of the glaciers, because the glaciers didn't melt that quick.

00:21:59.000 Right, because they're so huge.

00:22:01.000 Right.

00:22:01.000 It'd be just like, imagine that we had a big chunk of ice.

00:22:04.000 We had an ice sculpture here, right?

00:22:07.000 And if the temperature is, you know, 31 degrees, it's not going to melt.

00:22:12.000 If you turn the temperature up to 70 degrees, right, we could turn the temperature up in a matter, and it could warm up the room in a matter of hours or minutes, but it's going to take a while for that ice sculpture to melt.

00:22:22.000 There's going to be a lag, see?

00:22:23.000 Right.

00:22:24.000 Although the change that led to that meltdown was virtually instantaneous, you see?

00:22:29.000 Right.

00:22:30.000 But in that period, in this interim, what we're seeing right here, There was an extraordinary, right here, I think if I go to the next slide, I think, you know, let's go to the next one.

00:22:43.000 Yeah, I'm gonna zoom in here so you can see this.

00:22:47.000 There were two massive warming spikes.

00:22:50.000 One right here, you can see that we're down here in full glacial mode right there.

00:22:54.000 And then boom, right there, there's huge spike of warming.

00:22:58.000 Now what does that represent when it comes to like temperatures?

00:23:01.000 That could be on the order of, well, that would be about 10 to 12 degrees centigrade, which would be about 18 degrees Fahrenheit, average temperature.

00:23:11.000 Which is a crazy change.

00:23:13.000 Crazy, crazy change.

00:23:14.000 Because we're scared of two degrees, right?

00:23:16.000 We're scared of two degrees.

00:23:17.000 And here we're looking, we're scared of two degrees centigrade. 1.00

00:23:19.000 Here we're looking at five, six times that much in a matter of a couple of years, you see.

00:23:26.000 At this point, We don't really have an explanation for this.

00:23:31.000 That's why I get really frustrated when somebody says to me, oh, the debate on climate change is over.

00:23:36.000 We're in the infancy of understanding the climate of this planet.

00:23:36.000 No, no, no.

00:23:40.000 And when we look at stuff like this, you see, it really drives home that point.

00:23:46.000 And you can see here.

00:23:47.000 I think what people are saying when they're saying that the debate on climate change is over, though, is whether or not human beings have had an impact on it in current times.

00:23:55.000 No question.

00:23:56.000 We have had an impact.

00:23:58.000 That's kind of what the debate is, right?

00:23:58.000 Right.

00:24:01.000 Well, if you say that the debate is about have humans had an impact or not, I think that there's no debate.

00:24:07.000 Humans have had an impact.

00:24:08.000 What they're looking at, though, in your mind, is one aspect of a very multidimensional issue.

00:24:14.000 Yes.

00:24:15.000 Exactly.

00:24:16.000 Exactly.

00:24:17.000 And my concern is that we're going to get so focused on carbon change that we're not looking at any of these other factors.

00:24:26.000 Isn't that what people do though?

00:24:28.000 We concentrate on one aspect of things and it becomes almost like a cultural meme and then it spreads and this is all people talk about.

00:24:37.000 And so many people, I guarantee you, that were upset at what you said, have not researched climate change at all.

00:24:44.000 They just have parroted the words of people that they've heard on television that are experts.

00:24:49.000 Well, 97% agree.

00:24:49.000 Well, you got this.

00:24:52.000 Well, if you look into the origin of that, it's pretty contrived.

00:24:56.000 It really is.

00:24:57.000 I mean, how you come up with that.

00:24:58.000 And we could do an hour-long discussion on that, and I don't really think we want to get into that today.

00:25:04.000 But I really feel like I should write an analysis of the source of that 97% so-called consensus so that people can really see where it came from.

00:25:14.000 In a nutshell, basically, it goes to three or four pieces of research, some surveys that went out that were slanted right from the beginning, such as, do you feel that humans have had an impact on climate?

00:25:27.000 Yes.

00:25:28.000 Nobody disagrees with that.

00:25:30.000 See, you can go through all the whoever these so-called deniers are.

00:25:34.000 I have looked and looked.

00:25:36.000 Who's denying?

00:25:37.000 Is there any climate scientists anywhere on the spectrum that denies that the climate changes or that denies that humans have had an influence on the climate?

00:25:46.000 And I haven't found a single one.

00:25:48.000 So in other words, these deniers that you hear about, you know, the climate change deniers, they don't really exist.

00:25:54.000 There are those who criticize the consensus view, right?

00:25:58.000 That the dominant mode of climate change is being induced by humans.

00:26:02.000 And they are being shoved into this camp of climate change deniers.

00:26:05.000 But they're not.

00:26:06.000 They're absolutely not climate change deniers.

00:26:09.000 And when you look at stuff like this, you know, a lot of these guys who had questioned the so-called anthropogenic climate change consensus are guys who've done this work.

00:26:18.000 Now, this work is how old?

00:26:20.000 Well, this goes back to these...

00:26:24.000 This work that I'm showing you here was published in 1993. The...

00:26:30.000 The Greenland Ice Sheet Project and the Greenland...

00:26:36.000 Oh, I forget.

00:26:38.000 It was GRIP and GISP. It was a European and an American team.

00:26:42.000 They spent five years drilling.

00:26:44.000 So these are the most accurate proxies we have in hand.

00:26:48.000 And they're pulling tubes of ice?

00:26:49.000 Is that what it looks like?

00:26:50.000 A cylinder?

00:26:51.000 Yeah, like cylinders.

00:26:52.000 Picture maybe six inches in diameter.

00:26:54.000 So they have like a circular cutting thing?

00:26:56.000 They have a circular cutting drill that extracts these ice cores.

00:27:00.000 And for the last 20 years, they've been analyzing the ice core.

00:27:04.000 You know, it took five years to get them out, and it's been, you know, 20 years now of analyzing what they're telling us.

00:27:10.000 So before they had all these ice cores, when they were saying that this climate change took thousands of years, was that just guessing?

00:27:17.000 Pretty much.

00:27:18.000 That was based upon Actual empirical observations of ice glaciers receding as a result of the modern warming.

00:27:29.000 Because you have to understand, Up until about the middle of the 19th century, we were in the middle of what has commonly been referred to as the Little Ice Age.

00:27:38.000 And this is another thing that's important to put into context.

00:27:42.000 The Little Ice Age was in two phases.

00:27:46.000 The earliest phase came on in about the mid-1300s.

00:27:49.000 Then it warmed for about a century in the 15-1600s.

00:27:54.000 And then the second phase came on.

00:27:56.000 During that time, the glaciers worldwide began to grow.

00:27:59.000 And most of the evidence today suggests that during the Little Ice Age, glaciers were bigger than they had been in 10,000 years.

00:28:07.000 So around the middle of the 19th century, around 1850, give or take a decade or two, The climate began to warm out of the Little Ice Age, and glaciers began to recede, right?

00:28:19.000 Now, if we look at glacier recession that's going on right now, and it's been going on for the last 10 or 20 years, what we see is it's basically a continuation of the recession that's been going on for 160 or 170 years.

00:28:34.000 So it's important to establish what's our baseline.

00:28:38.000 When we're comparing modern recession of glaciers, bear in mind that our baseline is we're starting from the glaciers being bigger than they had been in 10,000 years.

00:28:49.000 So I think then we have to understand that that little ice age, in fact, had some pretty serious consequences for civilization.

00:28:59.000 We can see that there were two periods, in the last 2,000 years, there were two periods of global cooling.

00:29:05.000 One of them occurred in the 6th century.

00:29:07.000 It actually now can be accurately dated to occurring between 536 and 544 AD. Which is a very interesting time.

00:29:17.000 This was basically the time that historians have for decades said this was the onset of the Dark Ages.

00:29:24.000 It's also the time during which all of the Arthurian myths and the Grailquest stories are placed.

00:29:31.000 You know, Arthur's death is traditionally placed at the Battle of Kamlan, which is usually dated about 540 A.D., which basically culminated this quest for the Grail, right?

00:29:46.000 Now, the Grail stories themselves were set down in writing between about 1180 and 1230 A.D., In this really interesting time during the Middle Ages, at the same time that the great cathedrals were being built,

00:30:02.000 when the Cathar movement was at its strongest, when the Knights of the Temple were at their strongest, when Kabbalism schools were flourishing in Spain, when the troubadours were making their circuits around Europe, you know,

00:30:18.000 spreading news and entertainment, but really probably carrying Esoteric information to the initiates that had the key to the secret language that they used.

00:30:29.000 It was a very interesting time.

00:30:31.000 But it was in that 1180 to 1230 that the Grail stories were written down.

00:30:38.000 Now, the Grail stories actually refer back to this period of the Arthurian days.

00:30:43.000 And the quest for the Grail, if you recall, was that the land had succumbed to blight.

00:30:50.000 It had become a wasteland.

00:30:52.000 England had become a wasteland.

00:30:54.000 And the idea of the Grail was...

00:30:59.000 Not only restored the wasteland, it restored the king.

00:31:03.000 Because remember, the king, whether it was King Arthur or Bronn or Anfortas or the Fisher King, there were different names and different stories.

00:31:11.000 It was the same deal.

00:31:12.000 He was sick.

00:31:13.000 He was in decline.

00:31:14.000 He was wounded.

00:31:15.000 The wound wouldn't heal.

00:31:17.000 He was debilitated.

00:31:19.000 And the only way to restore him was to find the grail, bring the grail back, Allow them to drink from the grail, but the grail was also the means of restoring the wasteland to fertility and fecundity.

00:31:32.000 Now, here's where it gets interesting, is that the dendrochronologists who study tree rings have been looking at that period, exactly in that period that the tradition places the grail quest, and have discovered that for about eight or ten years,

00:31:50.000 forest growth in the northern hemisphere almost came to a screeching halt.

00:31:54.000 And this has now been well documented.

00:31:55.000 Mike Bailey has done most of this work.

00:31:59.000 Basically showing that there was a serious global cooling that took place during those years.

00:32:06.000 And the historical record of that seems to confirm, because there's multiple descriptions, you know, from Irish monks and so on, describing how for weeks at a time the sun is not visible, that, you know, that its darkness has come over the land, that there were reports of these mysterious fogs,

00:32:23.000 and then there are multiple collapses of agriculture.

00:32:28.000 Okay, so as a result of these multi-year collapses of agriculture, because of the cold and the dark and the damp, people got malnourished, and then you had famine.

00:32:39.000 As a result of famine, people, their immune systems became weakened, and then in 542 AD, you had the onset of the Justinian Plague, which wiped out maybe a third of the population of Europe.

00:32:53.000 Whole villages disappeared as a consequence.

00:32:56.000 Now these events Pretty much followed in sequence.

00:33:00.000 You see, the cold brought about the collapse of agriculture, the collapse of agriculture brought about famine, famine brought about weakness, and as a result, boom, you have plague.

00:33:12.000 Now, it took European civilization nearly three centuries to recover from that.

00:33:17.000 Now, what brought about the recovery was the return of warmth to the world, what is called the medieval warm period.

00:33:25.000 And this began really to occur in about 900 A.D. The sea ice began to retract back well inside the Arctic Circle, which opened up the sea lanes between Northern Europe, Iceland, and Greenland.

00:33:39.000 And so it was this period of time that the Vikings were able to sail to Iceland and then sail to Greenland and actually establish colonies on the west coast of Greenland and farm where now the ground is perennially frozen.

00:33:54.000 Let me try that again.

00:33:55.000 Perennially frozen.

00:33:57.000 Right?

00:33:58.000 So it was clearly a warm period.

00:34:00.000 And what happened was, if you look back now at the studies from that medieval warm period, you see that agriculture rebounded.

00:34:07.000 So many people had lots of food to eat.

00:34:10.000 Actually studies of skeletons show that the stature of humans during this period of time increased by four or five inches on average from what it had been during the Dark Ages.

00:34:21.000 And now Europe started becoming wealthy again, because the basis of all wealth, basically, was agriculture, was food, right?

00:34:28.000 Without that, you don't have anything else.

00:34:31.000 Population began to expand enormously.

00:34:33.000 You see other things going on.

00:34:36.000 Lifespans increase.

00:34:37.000 Infant mortality decreases.

00:34:39.000 All of this stuff has been well documented in a whole variety of studies.

00:34:43.000 Well, after about a century and a half of this warmth with the concomitant wealth that came along, European society was wealthy enough to undertake this extraordinary cathedral building phase, you see,

00:34:58.000 where you had literally hundreds of thousands of highly trained, highly skilled craftspeople working on these things.

00:35:06.000 Essentially, when you begin to look at the cathedral building phenomena, It required basically the mobilization of the whole of European society behind this enterprise because you had to quarry huge amounts of stone.

00:35:20.000 You had to transport these stones.

00:35:22.000 You had to carve the stones.

00:35:23.000 You look at the statuary, the stained glass, which is...

00:35:27.000 Exceptional in its refractive properties that really have still not been mimicked to this day, the way the stained glass was able to refract light, so that it gives the appearance of not the light coming, shining through the glass, but emanating from within the glass.

00:35:43.000 And you could go on and on with this.

00:35:46.000 The carpentry skill, the engineering skill, the astronomy that went into these structures, all of this combined basically shows up Basically in a historical instant.

00:35:58.000 And what's interesting is the scarcity of evidence showing What preceded this?

00:36:08.000 Who organized this?

00:36:09.000 Who raised the money?

00:36:11.000 Who trained the craftsmen?

00:36:13.000 There are references to this in history, but really, there's no explicit, detailed discussion where we can go and trace and say, okay, this is how it happened.

00:36:26.000 It's important to realize that this was a consequence of the expansion of wealth in European society that was able to allow this to happen.

00:36:39.000 And that's as a consequence of the warmth of the earth.

00:36:42.000 And what we see is that the cathedral building era comes to a sudden termination in the early 1300s.

00:36:51.000 And if you go and you travel around the cathedrals, you'll find that there's in many cases, you know, the record suggests that it's almost as if in the middle of their work, the workmen laid down their tools and left in some cases.

00:37:02.000 This is why there were so many cathedrals of the great ones that weren't finished, okay?

00:37:08.000 But what you see Is that exactly concurring with the cessation of cathedral building, within a few decades anyway, was the onset to the Little Ice Age and the return of the cold.

00:37:22.000 And this first phase of the Little Ice Age, again, brought about agricultural collapses, it brought about famine, and then you had the Black Plague that showed up, I think, around, what was it, 1330, 1340, right in there.

00:37:35.000 Again, decimated the civilization of Europe.

00:37:39.000 So you can see, I mean, if we look at the historical record, what we see is the times of global warming have actually been times of advancement in civilization.

00:37:51.000 Now, of course, that would have its limit.

00:37:54.000 I mean, we could get to, you know, at some point where we would get too warm.

00:37:57.000 Right, of course.

00:37:58.000 But so far what we've seen, we're, at this point, well within the range of natural variability.

00:38:03.000 Why is this never brought up by anybody but you?

00:38:07.000 I've never heard anybody else discuss this very controversial subject.

00:38:13.000 It's controversial because everyone's so fixated on global warming being a bad thing.

00:38:17.000 It's there.

00:38:18.000 It's there for anybody who is willing to do their homework.

00:38:21.000 You know, and if somebody goes on my website or whatever and says, what are your sources?

00:38:26.000 I'm glad to provide multiple, multiple sources going back.

00:38:30.000 I've been collecting this data for decades, you know, and it's there.

00:38:33.000 And I have to ask the same question.

00:38:35.000 Why are we ignoring this evidence?

00:38:37.000 You know, why are we?

00:38:38.000 Well, I think we're ignoring it because climate change has become a political agenda rather than a scientific question.

00:38:48.000 Because there are political factions that are lined up behind it, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is now looked at as being the ultimate source for data on the climate.

00:39:03.000 And bear in mind, they were created by the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change and given the mandate of go out there and demonstrate that humans are causing climate change.

00:39:11.000 So right from the very start, that was their mission.

00:39:13.000 And they were not told, go and look for natural causes of natural climate variability.

00:39:19.000 Study the human.

00:39:20.000 And it's important.

00:39:21.000 I mean, I'm not at all saying it's not important for us to study our own effects on climate.

00:39:27.000 But it's going to be dangerous, I think, if we neglect, you know, what we're seeing right here on this graph that I'm showing you, because that's clearly not carbon dioxide.

00:39:37.000 See, if we're told, and we have been repeatedly told, that carbon dioxide concentrations in the atmosphere held relatively steady at about 280 parts per million, Prior to the Industrial Revolution, and only subsequent to the Industrial Revolution,

00:39:52.000 did carbon dioxide start going up.

00:39:55.000 Well, if we assume, just for the sake of argument, that that's correct, well look at this graph.

00:40:01.000 What we're saying is that if carbon dioxide held steady at 280 parts per million, going back hundreds of thousands of years, as Al Gore has actually stated, and as many others have stated, It's not carbon dioxide driving those climate changes, is it?

00:40:15.000 Well, it can't be then.

00:40:16.000 It can't be.

00:40:17.000 If that's the case, then that's hard science.

00:40:17.000 No.

00:40:19.000 This is hard science.

00:40:20.000 Here it is, right here.

00:40:21.000 And that's hard science as well.

00:40:22.000 You're looking at something really crazy, some event.

00:40:25.000 Yeah.

00:40:26.000 That's my point.

00:40:26.000 Yeah.

00:40:27.000 Now, the alternative is, okay, are we saying if carbon dioxide is the dominant driver of climate change, And that's what we're seeing here.

00:40:38.000 Then what that basically says is that there's some gigantic unknown reservoirs of CO2 that have outgassed into the atmosphere, which again undermines the so-called consensus view, because so far the consensus view states that CO2 has only increased because of burning fossil fuel.

00:40:58.000 So this graph is the real inconvenient truth.

00:41:02.000 This graph, that's well put, yes.

00:41:05.000 This graph is the real inconvenient truth.

00:41:07.000 And when we look at some of this, I mean, right there, that is a major global warming right there.

00:41:12.000 Because this dashed line represents the modern temperature.

00:41:16.000 The 20th century average is this dashed line.

00:41:19.000 That dashed line, what year are we looking at right there?

00:41:23.000 Right here, this is between 100 and 150,000 years ago.

00:41:26.000 And that's a giant jump.

00:41:28.000 That's a giant jump.

00:41:29.000 I mean, so what does that represent as far as degrees in temperature?

00:41:33.000 Oh, well, let's see.

00:41:34.000 That's probably going to be, you know, 15 to 18 degrees Fahrenheit.

00:41:37.000 Whoa! 0.71

00:41:38.000 Yeah, right there.

00:41:39.000 So that's, you know, again, 15 to 18 times greater than the presumed temperature increase of the last century.

00:41:47.000 Is there any mainstream, I shouldn't say mainstream, scientific explanation for what that is?

00:41:53.000 No.

00:41:54.000 Well, it's called the Eemian.

00:41:56.000 It's called the Eemian period.

00:41:57.000 It's an interglacial period.

00:41:58.000 But even within the interglacial period, you see that there are these massive oscillations.

00:42:03.000 Massive cooling and then massive warming again.

00:42:05.000 Cooling and then warming again, yeah.

00:42:06.000 And so there's a variability.

00:42:08.000 If you're saying the warming is between 18 degrees, is that what you said?

00:42:12.000 Up to that.

00:42:13.000 So the cooling, you're talking about almost that much in the other direction.

00:42:17.000 In the other direction, yes.

00:42:18.000 And you're talking about this over a period of just a few decades?

00:42:22.000 Well, as we get back this far, we don't have the same degree of precision as we do when we're here.

00:42:28.000 Perhaps, yes, but we're not sure.

00:42:31.000 But we do know that these changes that we're looking at here that terminated the last ice age were just in a matter of a few years.

00:42:39.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:42:41.000 And the instantaneous nature of those is what you focus on when you start talking about asteroid impacts and things along those lines, that that is something That we can explain.

00:42:53.000 That's something you can point to.

00:42:55.000 By default, there doesn't seem to be a lot of other things that we can invoke to explain what we're seeing right here.

00:43:02.000 And there's absolute evidence that we have been hit multiple times.

00:43:07.000 We're going to get into that, yes, yes.

00:43:10.000 And that's a big part of what Graham's book is going to be.

00:43:13.000 This is amazing.

00:43:13.000 When you look at the ancient history, I mean, it's not even ancient as far as, I mean, there were human beings living sort of like us.

00:43:20.000 Oh, yeah.

00:43:20.000 But how much different the climate was.

00:43:23.000 Like, it was so fucked up. 0.96

00:43:25.000 Well, I'm not sure about the West Coast, but I know on the East Coast, there were, you know, swarms of icebergs stranding like off the coasts of South Carolina, for example. 0.99

00:43:35.000 You know, there was no Great Lakes because the Great Lakes were under thousands of feet of ice.

00:43:41.000 You know, New York, Boston, Detroit, Seattle, Portland, or not Portland, but Seattle, Twin Cities, Chicago, all of these areas were under thousands of feet of ice.

00:43:54.000 Thousands of feet.

00:43:54.000 Gosh!

00:43:55.000 And we're not talking millions of years ago.

00:43:57.000 We're talking, you know, 12, 13,000 to 25,000 to 30,000 years ago.

00:44:03.000 That's incredible.

00:44:04.000 It is.

00:44:04.000 And sea levels were basically, in round numbers, 400 feet lower than now.

00:44:10.000 Wow.

00:44:10.000 Which essentially exposes most of the continental shelves.

00:44:15.000 And I've got some interesting graphics here to show you what continental coastlines would have looked like.

00:44:22.000 There was an article that I was reading recently about aborigines and aboriginal tales of...

00:44:28.000 Of the lowered sea levels?

00:44:31.000 Yeah.

00:44:32.000 That they're starting to correspond now with actual climate data and an understanding of what the sea levels actually were at that time.

00:44:37.000 These are stories that are supposedly 10,000 years old, passed through oral traditions.

00:44:42.000 These traditions, to me, are just beyond valuable.

00:44:47.000 You know, up until very recently, They have been considered basically just, you know, interesting in the anthropological or psychological sense, but had no real hard scientific credibility to them.

00:45:03.000 Now I think we're beginning to re-evaluate them.

00:45:06.000 There's an archaeologist by the name of Bruce Massey who's been doing some very interesting work for the last 20 years analyzing many of these ancient myths and realizing and putting out there the argument that these myths and these legends and these epic tales encode really hard scientific information that we can extract from them.

00:45:32.000 Talking about global changes and astronomical events and so forth.

00:45:36.000 And I've been a believer in that for a long time.

00:45:41.000 And this is one of the premises of Graham's work, is that the myths and the legends actually have a great deal to teach us beyond just the psychological orientation of our ignorant pre-scientific ancestors.

00:45:55.000 But yeah, a good point you make there.

00:45:59.000 When we look at this graph basically what we're seeing here is that coming out of the ice age you can kind of see that we're coming up here and then we have this first massive spike of warming and then it seesaws back down into this full glacial cold.

00:46:13.000 This is called this period between these two green arrows is called the Younger Dryas.

00:46:19.000 Which is named after a polar wildflower that had disappeared in northern Europe and then suddenly came back again.

00:46:25.000 It only grows in polar environments, Dryas octopetala.

00:46:29.000 So the younger Dryas compared, because there was an older Dryas too, but it lasted.

00:46:35.000 Now the dates are placing it from roughly 12,900 years ago, give or take a few decades, to 11,600 years ago.

00:46:44.000 This spike of warming right here is 11,600 years.

00:46:48.000 If we look at the next one here, this graph basically goes to a different realm of evidence.

00:46:56.000 What this shows is the rate of sea level rise.

00:47:04.000 Now, oceanographers and marine geologists have been studying.

00:47:07.000 There's a number of different ways they can correlate this information.

00:47:10.000 They can look at actual evidence of submerged shorelines, right?

00:47:14.000 They can look at changes in the flora and the fauna that have lived in the oceans.

00:47:20.000 They can look at coral reefs.

00:47:22.000 There's a lot of different things that they can pull together to see how rapidly sea levels rose at the end of the last ice age.

00:47:30.000 And again, a generation or two ago, the assumption was that there was a smooth continuum of rise that took tens of thousands of years, right, to get us from minus 400 feet up to what we are now at the present level.

00:47:44.000 What this graph shows is that there were two massive spikes of meltwater introduced into the oceans, into the global oceans at the end of the last ice age.

00:47:53.000 And you can see the first spike called Meltwater Pulse 1A is the biggest, followed by another one, Meltwater Pulse 1B. If we go back to this graph right here, Those two spikes of glacial meltwater and sea level rise coincide with this warming spike and that warming spike.

00:48:13.000 And you can see how this warming spike seems to be the most intense, followed by this one.

00:48:18.000 And we see that meltwater pulse 1A is the biggest.

00:48:22.000 So what this is showing is that the rise in sea level was not as smooth.

00:48:27.000 It was like Whomp, and then whomp again.

00:48:30.000 So there was something that caused all those glaciers to melt within just a very short amount of time, relatively speaking.

00:48:37.000 Yes, a geological instant, exactly.

00:48:40.000 What's further interesting is when we look at this graph.

00:48:43.000 This is the late Pleistocene mortality graph, and each square represents a fossil specimen of an extinct mammal.

00:48:53.000 You know, could be a woolly mammoth, could be a giant ground sloth, could be a saber-toothed cat, could be the giant cave bear.

00:49:00.000 Roughly 120 species of mega mammals that lived during the Ice Age when extinct, right?

00:49:08.000 At the end of the Ice Age.

00:49:10.000 And basically, what this graph is showing us here is that you probably can't read this here, so I'll interpret it for you.

00:49:17.000 If you go back to here, the left side represents 50,000 years ago.

00:49:22.000 And here where the cursor is, that's 40,000 years, 30,000, 20,000.

00:49:29.000 And you see that as we're going along here, each one of these squares represents the finding of a fossil of an extinct mammal in the fossil record.

00:49:39.000 What we see from this graph is that when we get to between 11 and 13,000 years ago, there's a massive spike of mortality.

00:49:47.000 Shoots through the roof.

00:49:49.000 This demise of these animals directly coincides with this right here.

00:49:55.000 Directly.

00:49:57.000 Now, what we're dealing with is that for 50 years the dominant theory is called Overkill or Blitzkrieg.

00:50:06.000 And this theory basically states that bands of Paleo-Indian hunters came across the Bering Land Bridge, slaughtering every animal that they encountered along the way, and somehow within less than a thousand years swept from Siberia down to Tierra del Fuego and killed off every mammoth in the world,

00:50:28.000 And presumably every other of the extinct mammals, and that has been the dominant theory, that humans caused this mass extinction.

00:50:36.000 And personally, I think that's just absurd.

00:50:40.000 You know, because for one thing, based upon anthropological studies, there were possibly more woolly mammoths in the world than there were people for a while.

00:50:49.000 You know, you have to assume that the Blitzkrieg was so instantaneous and so all-encompassing that there was no time even for the mammoths to reproduce.

00:50:58.000 Of course, the overkill hypothesis basically addresses itself only to mammoths.

00:51:05.000 Woolly mammoths were one species of four different species of mammoths. 0.81

00:51:08.000 But what about the other roughly 120 species?

00:51:11.000 What about the giant armadillos and the giant beavers and the American Pleistocene lion that was as big as a horse?

00:51:18.000 You know, the list goes on and on and on and on.

00:51:21.000 And these animals all basically disappeared during this spike that you see right here.

00:51:25.000 And that spike falls exactly between these two warming spikes and between the two sea level rises.

00:51:31.000 So all the data all points to the same time period?

00:51:35.000 Yes.

00:51:38.000 And so what I'm saying, and this is basically consistent with what Graham's saying in his book, is that this, what we're seeing here, this episode basically represents a curtain that has come down and obscured 150,000 or more years of deep human history,

00:51:56.000 and basically has lost that history to modern perception.

00:52:00.000 But now, once we understand that, yeah, you know what, the uniformitarians were wrong to reject all ideas of catastrophism, you know, because in the original, in the early days of geology, the founding fathers of geology were catastrophists.

00:52:17.000 They went out in the field unencumbered by dogmas and doctrines and so forth.

00:52:25.000 They looked at the evidence in the field and concluded that there had been catastrophic episodes.

00:52:30.000 And this is, you know, Barron von Cuvier, Sedgwick, Murchison, if you go back and all of these guys who basically are considered the godfathers of modern geology.

00:52:40.000 They were, to a man, catastrophists.

00:52:44.000 James Hutton, Lyle and Playfair came along and basically proposed the idea of uniformitarianism.

00:52:52.000 The present is the key to the past.

00:52:55.000 Very powerful working idea is that we can look at stuff that's going on today, extrapolate backwards and try to figure out things that happened in the past when we don't have an eyewitness account, right?

00:53:09.000 Very powerful.

00:53:10.000 But what happened was it became so entrenched as dogma that anybody who invoked catastrophes was considered basically fringe.

00:53:20.000 Because in the early days, some of these guys, like Sedgwick, for example, he was a theologian.

00:53:25.000 He was a traveling minister who went around and in his travels to convert the people to Christianity, he would see the stuff.

00:53:35.000 And he would, you know, Place it within the context perhaps of being Noah's Flood, right?

00:53:41.000 And they would place it in a, some of them, not all of them, some of them would place it in a biblical context, right?

00:53:47.000 So when they were attacked, basically the substance of the attack was, well, you guys are trying to bring us back to the days of biblical literalism, and science has moved beyond that.

00:54:00.000 We're not here, we don't want to talk about catastrophes or great floods, deluges, we're through talking about all of that.

00:54:06.000 That's all been discredited.

00:54:08.000 And what you see is between the early 1800s, with the beginning of geology, earth science, to about the 19th century, what you see is a steady decline You know, some of the older guys die off, they're replaced by the new guys who have now basically taken control of the university curriculums,

00:54:25.000 and they've been indoctrinated into this idea of a strict gradualism, and that any deviation from that strict gradualism is heresy, basically.

00:54:35.000 So by the time we get to the 20th century, you had this reigning uniformity, reigning gradualist dogma that had been imposed upon all Earth science.

00:54:45.000 And anybody who deviated from that was immediately kicked out of the club.

00:54:49.000 And this is why when J. Harlan Bretz came along in the 1920s and proposed that there had been these gigantic floods in the Pacific Northwest, You know, the geological community basically said, ah, get out of here.

00:55:02.000 We don't want to hear about it.

00:55:03.000 We know that that couldn't have been just because we know.

00:55:07.000 J. Harlan Bretz continued to document, exhaustively document from the field that these floods were very real.

00:55:17.000 His critics said, well, you can't provide a source for these floods, therefore they didn't happen.

00:55:22.000 Now bear in mind that all of his critics, his most vocal critics, had never even gone out to actually look, right?

00:55:30.000 And Graham has got a great section in his new upcoming book describing the ordeal that Bretz was put through.

00:55:38.000 He finally prevailed, ultimately.

00:55:42.000 Most of his critics died off.

00:55:44.000 He lived to be, I think, 98. So I think when he was 96, he was given the Penrose Medal, which is the highest honor of geology.

00:55:52.000 He said he was very grateful, but the only thing he was unhappy about was the fact that all of his critics had died off, so he didn't get to gloat over them.

00:56:04.000 But so what happened was you had the younger geologists come in who were more open to that.

00:56:09.000 And what you see is between the 1950s and 1960s, you have a transition going on where they're beginning to accept that these great floods had happened.

00:56:19.000 But what they did was they took a modern example, which is glacial outburst floods, which We've witnessed dozens and dozens, probably hundreds of such cases in Iceland, particularly Alaska,

00:56:34.000 British Columbia, the Himalayas, where you have, particularly going back to the Little Ice Age, when the glaciers began to recede in the mid-19th century, you had a lot of what are called pro-glacial lakes formed.

00:56:46.000 Or lakes, bodies of water held in by the melting ice.

00:56:51.000 And then eventually the ice gave way and the water rushed out in the form of a flood.

00:56:55.000 The Icelanders call it a Jokalops.

00:56:58.000 Okay, so we have a modern example.

00:57:00.000 So what they did was in the 60s and 70s was they said, okay, guess what?

00:57:05.000 We've got now evidence that there was a huge body of water, a huge lake in western Montana.

00:57:11.000 It was held in by an ice dam.

00:57:13.000 That ice dam gave way.

00:57:15.000 All of this water gushed out over Idaho and southeastern Washington, down the Columbia Gorge to the Pacific Ocean, and caused all of this amazing erosion and sedimentation that Harlan Bretz was documenting.

00:57:30.000 Never mind that we have to extrapolate up three orders of magnitude from modern examples, right?

00:57:36.000 Never mind that the modern examples are utterly minuscule compared to what Bretz was looking at.

00:57:42.000 That has become the dogma to explain these floods.

00:57:45.000 And it's still the entrenched dogma as we speak now.

00:57:50.000 I am trying to demolish that dogma.

00:57:52.000 I want to show that these floods were something much grander than they have even imagined, and that the source of them was not actually a big glacial lake, but was what Bretz originally theorized was that there was something that caused a rapid melting of the ice.

00:58:11.000 But then his critics said, well, there's nothing that could melt the ice as fast as you're requiring for your floods.

00:58:17.000 So again, your floods didn't happen.

00:58:19.000 But his floods did happen.

00:58:20.000 And they were on an enormous, inconceivably vast scale.

00:58:25.000 And this is what I was taking Graham out to see firsthand.

00:58:28.000 Because I felt like for him to really have a handle on this This information and this insight into the catastrophes that basically would have terminated his mother civilization, as he called it, that he should see this stuff in the field for himself.

00:58:46.000 Because, you know, as they say, a picture's worth a thousand words.

00:58:50.000 Well, going out in the field and experiencing this directly is worth a thousand pictures.

00:58:55.000 And so he's going to incorporate that into his book.

00:58:59.000 And I would like to say about that book that based upon what I know and what he's shown me a bit of what's going into the book, I'll proclaim without any equivocation that I think it's probably going to be the most important book that's come out in the 21st century.

00:59:15.000 Because it's opening a window onto this story like no other single source of information, credible information.

00:59:22.000 Wow.

00:59:23.000 That's a big statement.

00:59:24.000 This whole thing is so mind-blowing and as mind-blowing as your first appearance, this chart especially is really freaking me out.

00:59:32.000 Like looking at the mortality of all the animals, the mass extinction event that must have taken place.

00:59:36.000 One of the things that always bothered me about that idea that human beings killed off the woolly mammoths is that they found these vast fields of uneaten mammoths where there was thousands of them that had died almost instantaneously.

00:59:49.000 Yeah.

00:59:50.000 Which is just, that doesn't make any sense.

00:59:52.000 Like, what did they do?

00:59:53.000 They went on a mass killing orgy of slaughter and then just decided not to eat any of them?

00:59:59.000 Yeah.

01:00:00.000 Well, you know, the field evidence itself is inconsistent with that idea.

01:00:04.000 Right here, this is an example.

01:00:05.000 This is one of the many mammoth cemeteries.

01:00:09.000 And what happens is that you can see here that, you can see from the shoreline, see that there was a flood.

01:00:14.000 The river rose up to this level, and then when it rose down, it left this in its wake.

01:00:21.000 And what you see here, like this is bone counting at the Baralek Mammoth Cemetery in northern Yakutia, Siberia.

01:00:28.000 Identical deposits are found throughout the Tamar Peninsula.

01:00:31.000 And what we see here is these massive bone deposits that have been showing up for the last couple of hundred years.

01:00:38.000 Every time that there's, you know, a thawing or a flood or these things are washed up on the shore of the Arctic Ocean, you know, what we see is that there were huge, huge herds of woolly mammoths grazing.

01:00:51.000 We're now The plant material is only two inches high.

01:00:56.000 So clearly, it was a completely different climate there.

01:01:00.000 What's interesting is that you had in Siberia able to support herds of woolly mammoths at the same time that half of North America is buried under two miles or more of ice.

01:01:12.000 How is that possible?

01:01:13.000 Just a totally different atmosphere.

01:01:15.000 I'm still puzzling over that.

01:01:16.000 I have some ideas, but until I can test these ideas a little further, I'm So without ice core samples, is it impossible to figure out what the temperature was in Siberia at that time?

01:01:28.000 No, no.

01:01:29.000 They can figure out basically based upon fossil plant remains.

01:01:33.000 And you can see that in some cases the tree line was hundreds of miles further north than it is now.

01:01:38.000 And that's clearly...

01:01:39.000 If you've got trees, forests growing now where, you know, 13 or 14 or 15,000 years ago it was permafrost, you know it was warmer, clearly.

01:01:51.000 So there's still, whoa, what is that?

01:01:53.000 19th century scene showing ivory floor of the London docks covered by thousands of mammoth tusks from Siberia.

01:01:59.000 This is a drawing, obviously.

01:02:01.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:02:02.000 Predates photographs.

01:02:04.000 Yeah.

01:02:05.000 For hundreds of years, thousands of mammoths, entombed mammoths and mammoth tusks were being exhumed from the Siberian permafrost.

01:02:15.000 Thousands and thousands and thousands of these.

01:02:18.000 And basically, to me, you look at this, this is just in your face evidence that this was not humans doing this.

01:02:27.000 You know, it was not humans that were slaughtering these mammoths and burying their remains.

01:02:32.000 Well, the instantaneous nature would almost be like people had figured out some new thing.

01:02:39.000 Like they figured out some, like a doom gun.

01:02:43.000 You know, they shot the whole...

01:02:47.000 The doom gun.

01:02:48.000 Well, look at the near extinction of American bison.

01:02:51.000 What brought that about?

01:02:53.000 Trains and high-powered rifles, right?

01:02:57.000 It was a technological, major technological advancement that was able to bring about the near extermination of the American bison. 0.98

01:03:04.000 There's actually a guy that I'm going to bring on the podcast soon to discuss that.

01:03:08.000 His name is Dan Flores, who is a big chunk of his intellectual career studying this.

01:03:15.000 And what he believes is that the bison had a massive population jump that was directly correlating to smallpox epidemic on the Native American people and that when the United States when we look at the United States history and the big stacks of woolly mammoth or excuse me the big stacks of bison skulls we always look to like that was a very unusual population of bison that existed because the plains Indians

01:03:45.000 had experienced this massive extinction event and then when they had incorporated the horse Like the horse and apparently the American Indians, Native Americans rather, were on their way to extirpating the bison even before we came along. 0.98

01:04:00.000 But then they died off in this massive death scenario with the smallpox and all the different diseases that the Europeans had brought over here. 1.00

01:04:11.000 And then the mammoth population, or excuse me, the bison population had grown Almost unnaturally.

01:04:18.000 It had been much larger than it had ever been in the past.

01:04:20.000 And that's when the United States was established, and that's when all the Western European immigrants had come along and started killing off all these bisons. 1.00

01:04:31.000 It's really a very interesting subject.

01:04:34.000 Yeah.

01:04:34.000 It's an interesting idea, and it's plausible.

01:04:36.000 I... Haven't looked into that.

01:04:40.000 You know, I assumed, and maybe wrongfully, but I had assumed that the bison population had been relatively stable.

01:04:47.000 I am not convinced, though, that there was this massive die-off of the Native American population yet.

01:04:54.000 I'm not convinced.

01:04:56.000 Well, because I haven't looked into it yet.

01:04:58.000 But, you know, one of the things I have seen is that the assumption there is predicated upon that the Europeans arrived and brought the diseases that Native Americans had no defenses for.

01:05:08.000 But the thing is, is that, you know, there's so much evidence now showing that, you know, there were lots of explorers and immigrants to the New World prior to the arrival of the Europeans.

01:05:22.000 You know, with the Chinese, the Phoenicians, and I'm not necessarily saying that's credible, none of it's been proven, but there's some interesting data out there that suggests, and there are a number of books written that, again, I haven't accessed it, so I'm not going to pretend that I'm an authority on that,

01:05:38.000 because I'm not.

01:05:39.000 But if some of that turns out to be credible, it would suggest that there was a lot more interaction between the Native American population and other groups around the world.

01:05:48.000 Which, if true, To me, kind of somewhat undermines this idea that they were completely susceptible to the introduction of these foreign diseases.

01:06:02.000 But again, I've got an open mind.

01:06:05.000 I'll wait and see.

01:06:06.000 I'd like to see what he says.

01:06:08.000 I'd like to hear his ideas.

01:06:11.000 For anyone interested, he has a paper in the Journal of American History.

01:06:15.000 It's called Bison Ecology and Bison Diplomacy.

01:06:20.000 The Southern Plains from 1800 to 1850. I just looked for it online.

01:06:26.000 There's a preview that's available, but to download the entire paper or book, I'm not sure which one it is, it's $19.

01:06:34.000 Yeah, and what journal is it in?

01:06:36.000 The Journal of American History.

01:06:39.000 From September of 91. And like I said, he's working on a new book right now.

01:06:45.000 And I'm trying to get him to come in, but it's just very difficult while he's in the middle of doing this.

01:06:50.000 You said September of 1991?

01:06:51.000 Yeah.

01:06:52.000 Yeah, I can probably access it.

01:06:53.000 Dan Flores is his name.

01:06:57.000 Well, just the information that I got about it was pretty mind-blowing.

01:07:01.000 Sounds interesting.

01:07:01.000 Okay.

01:07:03.000 I want to know more.

01:07:05.000 Thank you for that, Joe.

01:07:06.000 Yeah, please.

01:07:07.000 Now, let's go back to that photo that you have on your desktop that you were going to explain to me, but we decided not to talk about it before the podcast because it's so incredible that you said all this incredible change that we're looking at,

01:07:24.000 the geological structure...

01:07:27.000 All that took place within just a week.

01:07:30.000 Yeah.

01:07:31.000 Let's go to this.

01:07:33.000 I've got that.

01:07:34.000 We'll come to that.

01:07:37.000 This is a satellite photograph taken from about 500 miles up.

01:07:43.000 And what you see here, this is southeastern Washington, and what you're looking at here is part of what's called the Columbia Basalt Plateau.

01:07:52.000 This is part of the terrain that we crossed when I was with Graham.

01:07:57.000 What you see here is that you have an area of, if you look here you can see the Differentiate between the pixels and the actual squares that like you see this red area down here is area that's actually being farmed and it's in it because this is an infrared photograph and so what happens is is that the areas that are being cultivated will show up warmer than the surrounding areas.

01:08:22.000 This is this whole plateau is covered in this stuff called Loess L O E S S and it's a type of very fertile soil That has a rather mysterious and controversial origin.

01:08:34.000 We won't get into that right now, but in some places this lust layer is hundreds of feet thick over a dark basalt bedrock that is a result of these massive outflows of basaltic lava that came out, that extruded between about 6 million and 16 million years ago,

01:08:54.000 right?

01:08:55.000 The hot spot that was the ultimate origin of this basalt is now where Yellowstone is.

01:09:01.000 So you can make that connection there.

01:09:03.000 The Yellowstone supervolcano.

01:09:05.000 Supervolcano, yeah.

01:09:09.000 But what you have here is that you have the lighter areas is where this lust topsoil still exists.

01:09:15.000 And the darker areas is where the underlying dark basalt is showing through because the lust was washed away.

01:09:24.000 So what this is is your typical, the geological term is anastomosing.

01:09:32.000 The flow pattern of the water.

01:09:34.000 And you can see that very clearly here, that the water came off of this river, which is the Columbia River up here, and flowed over the landscape and washed away the basalt and left these gigantic channels in its wake.

01:09:49.000 And there's more over here to the east, there's more over here to the west.

01:09:55.000 And if we look at, actually this, let me go to a different program here.

01:10:01.000 I think it'll actually have some, that actually I think has the picture in it that you are seeing.

01:10:10.000 Now, what we're looking at here is what's been called the Missoula Flood, right?

01:10:14.000 Named after the town of Missoula, Montana.

01:10:17.000 Missoula is in a basin that was part of this hypothesized giant lake that presumably caused this flood, right?

01:10:25.000 And again, there was an ice dam.

01:10:27.000 There was this ice dam.

01:10:29.000 The ice dam broke.

01:10:30.000 And as soon as this thing comes up, I will be able to show you some slide.

01:10:35.000 Here we go.

01:10:35.000 Let's see.

01:10:37.000 Here we go.

01:10:38.000 It should be coming up right here.

01:10:40.000 While that's coming up, we'll look at this slide right here because this will kind of give you a picture of the Earth as it was during the height of the Ice Age.

01:10:56.000 So, wow, that's pretty deep.

01:10:58.000 The sheets of ice go pretty far down.

01:11:01.000 That's amazing.

01:11:01.000 Canada didn't exist.

01:11:03.000 Canada didn't exist.

01:11:04.000 Wow.

01:11:05.000 Yeah.

01:11:05.000 Poor Canadians.

01:11:06.000 Yeah.

01:11:07.000 Well, yeah.

01:11:09.000 And, you know, the ice, part of it is, you know, in the Midwest now, the farming belt of America is basically, you know, growing out of the fertile soil that the ice scraped off of Canada and dumped in.

01:11:24.000 You know, down in Minnesota and Iowa and Wisconsin and so on.

01:11:27.000 So, you know, someday they may want that back.

01:11:31.000 But we're not going to let them have it.

01:11:34.000 It's fascinating when you look at that, that there was this big ice cap, but then the areas around it, no ice.

01:11:41.000 And why was that?

01:11:44.000 Well, that's one of the mysteries.

01:11:46.000 Again, like over here in Siberia, you can see over here, this is where all the woolly mammoths were, giant herds of woolly mammoths.

01:11:53.000 And it appears like it may have been warmer than now during the Ice Age, which is very odd.

01:11:59.000 There's some ice up there?

01:12:00.000 Is that what we're seeing?

01:12:01.000 Yeah, there's some ice up there.

01:12:04.000 Sporadic glaciers, but nothing like what we see in northwestern Europe over here.

01:12:08.000 This was called the Phenoscandian Ice Sheet.

01:12:11.000 And the ice sheet over North America actually consisted of two ice sheets.

01:12:15.000 The Laurentide, which was centered over Hudson Bay, and the Cordilleran, which was centered over the Canadian Rockies.

01:12:22.000 And in this particular slide, you can see...

01:12:27.000 You can see here, this was the Cordilleran over here, over the Canadian Rockies, and this was the Laurentide was much bigger, see?

01:12:35.000 And then there was an area between the two, right here.

01:12:39.000 Which has been theorized as at one point having been a corridor called the Ice Free Corridor and migrants from Paleo-Indian migrants from Siberia would have come across Alaska and down through this corridor here to the lower United States and ultimately down here to South America.

01:13:00.000 And it was these groups of bands of paleo-Indian hunters that according to the overkill or blitzkrieg hypothesis wiped out the mega-mammals as they passed by. 0.90

01:13:21.000 Let's see.

01:13:22.000 Okay, there we go.

01:13:23.000 Okay, so here this kind of will show The coastlines of the of the world during the during the ice age and Let me just Escape out of this so that we can Zoom in a little bit and look at it closer okay,

01:13:48.000 so here would be a As we see now.

01:13:57.000 This is modern coastline.

01:13:58.000 This is modern coastline.

01:14:00.000 And now I'm going to jump to, this is actually only 300 feet lower than now and quite a bit different.

01:14:10.000 Let's just look at the United States, North America.

01:14:13.000 That's amazing.

01:14:14.000 There's a lot more United States.

01:14:16.000 Yeah, now check this out.

01:14:18.000 Okay, now here, here's North America as it is now.

01:14:21.000 And you see up here, this is what's called, this is the Bering Strait right here between Alaska and Siberia, right?

01:14:30.000 During the Ice Age, this whole area was exposed because of the lowered sea level.

01:14:37.000 We'll go one slide further and you will see.

01:14:39.000 Take a look.

01:14:39.000 Now watch what happens up there in Beringia.

01:14:43.000 Boom.

01:14:44.000 Wow, so it's all land.

01:14:45.000 It's all land.

01:14:46.000 And it's connecting North America to Siberia.

01:14:48.000 And that's all drowned.

01:14:49.000 Wow, I didn't understand that.

01:14:50.000 See, I always thought that the Bering Strait was an ice mass.

01:14:53.000 I thought it was during the Ice Age that there was some sort of...

01:14:56.000 Yes.

01:14:57.000 That it was ice, but it's not.

01:14:59.000 It's land.

01:15:00.000 No, it's land.

01:15:01.000 Wow.

01:15:01.000 And it's not glaciated.

01:15:03.000 And it was home to these extraordinary herds of mega-mammals. 1.00

01:15:09.000 That ranged over these thousands and thousands of square miles.

01:15:12.000 I mean, the drowned area is bigger than modern Alaska.

01:15:15.000 So how long ago is this?

01:15:17.000 Well, this is, you know, right up until the end of the Ice Age.

01:15:20.000 You know, between like 14,000-15,000 years ago.

01:15:23.000 So 14,000-15,000 years ago, no glaciers in this area.

01:15:25.000 This is all just land, and there's animals living in it, and people are walking back and forth.

01:15:29.000 I mean, essentially, it was a continent.

01:15:32.000 I mean, it was connected.

01:15:33.000 It was all one continent.

01:15:35.000 It was all one...

01:15:36.000 It was all one continent.

01:15:37.000 Wow, that's amazing.

01:15:39.000 And the coastlines of the world, look at Florida out here.

01:15:44.000 See, it's double the width of the modern peninsula.

01:15:48.000 Yeah, it's enormous.

01:15:50.000 And it's so close to Mexico, too.

01:15:52.000 It's almost like a little boat ride.

01:15:54.000 Now here is Indonesia, and you know, where stories, which I don't know how credible they are, but you know there are stories like Lemuria and the Pacific and all of that.

01:16:04.000 Again, I don't know how credible those are.

01:16:06.000 I think the Atlantis story actually has a little more credibility.

01:16:08.000 We talked about that last time somewhat.

01:16:10.000 But here's the modern, and you can see the light blue is the coastal shelf area.

01:16:15.000 Right?

01:16:15.000 Now, let's go back.

01:16:17.000 We're going to drop sea level 300 feet.

01:16:19.000 And then you'll see here the enormous change.

01:16:23.000 Whoa! 0.71

01:16:24.000 So again, enormous areas of land were drowned by the rising sea levels.

01:16:29.000 Remember this.

01:16:30.000 Now, when we look at the rise of modern cities and modern civilizations, where did they first show up?

01:16:35.000 On the coasts.

01:16:36.000 On the coasts, right.

01:16:37.000 At the mouths of rivers, on the coastlines.

01:16:39.000 And during the Ice Age, where would have been the most obvious prime habitable real estate?

01:16:45.000 You know, down close to sea level, right?

01:16:47.000 So if there were cities built, you know, if there were thriving communities during the Ice Age, they're now 400 feet under the water.

01:16:55.000 It's so amazing that all of these stories of floods, the epic of Gilgamesh, Noah's Ark, that all of these stories seem to really correlate with all this data.

01:17:10.000 I mean, they all seem to coincide.

01:17:12.000 That's exactly the point.

01:17:14.000 It's so weird. 0.99

01:17:16.000 You know, most people would think about the story of Noah's Ark, like, oh, it's just some crazy old horse shit. 0.98

01:17:21.000 But it's most likely they're basing it on something that happened very rapidly in their area. 0.98

01:17:30.000 Yeah.

01:17:31.000 Now, of course, we're most familiar with the story of Noah's Ark, you know, because of the Judeo-Christian tradition.

01:17:37.000 But there are hundreds, literally hundreds of stories from all over the world that parallel the story of Noah and Deucalion.

01:17:45.000 Zisithris, Utnapishtim, Manu.

01:17:48.000 The list goes on and on of these culture heroes that somehow had foreknowledge of this impending disaster and were able to take steps to preserve themselves, their family, some diverse cross-section of species.

01:18:05.000 And they all have this similarity.

01:18:09.000 They all parallel.

01:18:11.000 My way of looking at it is this.

01:18:13.000 Okay, we now know from the hard geological record that massive floods have taken place on the surface of the earth.

01:18:20.000 Massive floods, right?

01:18:22.000 Beyond anything that we have even imagined, right?

01:18:25.000 Up until a decade or a few decades ago.

01:18:28.000 They're real, okay?

01:18:29.000 On the other hand, we have stories and myths and legends repeatedly.

01:18:33.000 It's probably the most ubiquitous of all the stories that we've inherited from the past, is the story of this gigantic, world-destroying flood that occurred, right?

01:18:44.000 Now, on the one hand, we have the hard geological record, which shows there were giant floods.

01:18:49.000 Then we have these epic tales and myths from all over the world about giant floods.

01:18:55.000 Do we now dismiss those stories out of hand and say, oh, that's just superstitious, preliterate, you know, pseudoscientific nonsense?

01:19:05.000 I think we'd be making a big mistake to do that.

01:19:08.000 Now, If we accept that those flood stories, and maybe they have been altered through the time and through the telling, represent something real, what about the other elements of the story?

01:19:22.000 The fact that in so many cases there was somebody that had foreknowledge.

01:19:28.000 Do we dismiss that out of hand as well?

01:19:30.000 You know, or where does that come from?

01:19:32.000 That there was one group of people, small group of people, that saw this thing coming and prepared for it, And others who basically paid no attention.

01:19:42.000 Maybe they were just preppers.

01:19:43.000 Maybe they were just the preppers of 10,000 years ago.

01:19:46.000 The preppers of 10,000 years ago.

01:19:47.000 I think that explains it right there.

01:19:51.000 One last slide quick here.

01:19:53.000 Here's Europe and look at the British Isles.

01:19:55.000 Right?

01:19:56.000 Now we'll drop sea level.

01:19:58.000 No British Isles. 0.98

01:20:00.000 That's incredible.

01:20:01.000 See, that's what I was saying earlier when we started talking.

01:20:03.000 I mean, the world of 15,000 years ago was so dramatically different than our modern world that, you know, it's almost difficult to conceive until you start looking at things like this.

01:20:15.000 And this is all during the Ice Age?

01:20:17.000 Yes.

01:20:18.000 And so, the melting of the glaciers just changed everything.

01:20:22.000 Everything.

01:20:22.000 And this is while human beings were absolutely alive.

01:20:26.000 Absolutely.

01:20:27.000 Absolutely.

01:20:27.000 No question.

01:20:28.000 Human beings were alive, yes.

01:20:31.000 Okay.

01:20:32.000 So, we'll start looking at some of these pictures here.

01:20:35.000 This is from western Montana.

01:20:37.000 You know, it says in Genesis 7.19,"...the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth and all the high hills were covered." I want you to take a look, because you can see many mountains in western United States, if you know what you're looking at, that have this on them.

01:20:53.000 You know what those are, those horizontal lines?

01:20:56.000 They look like where the shore...

01:20:58.000 They're shorelines.

01:20:59.000 Exactly, they're shorelines.

01:21:00.000 That's absolutely what they are?

01:21:01.000 That's absolutely what they are, they're shorelines.

01:21:03.000 Wow.

01:21:04.000 Reaching right up to the very tops of the hills, you see, and basically what you had...

01:21:09.000 Was you had this enormous gush of water filling these mountain valleys almost to the mountain peaks and then draining away.

01:21:17.000 And as it drained away, it left the succession of shorelines etched into the hillside.

01:21:23.000 Wow.

01:21:27.000 And all along the pathway of the floods, we're going to see stuff like this.

01:21:32.000 This was our first stop with Graham.

01:21:35.000 This is La Torelle Falls.

01:21:37.000 This is that basalt I was talking about.

01:21:40.000 Look at this stuff.

01:21:41.000 There's layers of this basalt.

01:21:43.000 Well, that's you guys underneath it?

01:21:46.000 I don't think in this picture.

01:21:47.000 I think I took this picture about 10 years ago.

01:21:49.000 But yeah, I have pictures of me and Graham under there.

01:21:52.000 You're so tiny.

01:21:53.000 That's so crazy.

01:21:54.000 It's so big.

01:21:55.000 Right.

01:21:55.000 Now, here's what you've got a picture, Joe.

01:21:59.000 Picture you've got this nice gentle valley with a nice river, very pastoral scene, you know, trees and stuff, probably, you know, mammoths and herds of these animals grazing along the side of this peaceful river with gentle valley slopes.

01:22:15.000 Here comes this massive flood, and we're talking about perhaps a flood wave 800 to 1000 feet high.

01:22:22.000 Coming through.

01:22:23.000 As it comes through, it's ripping up everything in its path.

01:22:27.000 And what it does is it now changes the profile of this valley from this gentle profile to down cutting 800, 1,000, 1,200 feet or more into the bedrock, right?

01:22:40.000 So now, prior to the passage of this giant flood, you had streams and nice little rivers flowing into the main river, which in this case was the Columbia.

01:22:49.000 What happens is after the passage of this flood wave, it's sheared off the sides of the channel.

01:22:55.000 So now, rather than a gentle slope, you've got sheer cliffs four, five, six hundred feet high.

01:23:00.000 These pre-flood streams and rivers come up and they're now waterfalls.

01:23:04.000 And that's what we're looking at right here in this picture, if that makes sense to you.

01:23:09.000 And you notice how you've got this undercutting here.

01:23:13.000 That undercutting only occurs when you have enormous intense turbulence in the water doing this.

01:23:21.000 You see, the water doing this will undercut.

01:23:26.000 See, this modern waterfall here had nothing to do with the creation of this cliff.

01:23:33.000 This cliff Was cut, again, probably in a matter of days to weeks by the passage of these giant floods.

01:23:40.000 And there's dozens of these waterfalls that are left.

01:23:44.000 And these are called hanging valleys.

01:23:46.000 They can be produced by glaciers, but they can also be produced by enormous, intense flood waves.

01:23:54.000 This is your typical, no, wait a minute, not typical.

01:23:57.000 This is called, this is a bar, a gravel bar, but in this case it's a boulder bar.

01:24:04.000 Now if you've ever done any walking along a river or a creek or along the beach and you've seen ripples in the sand and they're typically, you know, if you've got water that's a foot or two feet deep you'll have ripples that are maybe an inch or two high.

01:24:20.000 What we're looking at here is a flood bar that's three miles long.

01:24:25.000 It's up to 250 feet above the Modern River and the ripples that you can see here are up to 50 feet in height and 350 feet in wavelength.

01:24:41.000 This was produced, again, by gigantic flood flows.

01:24:46.000 And if we look right over here, that's a three-story building you see right there for scale.

01:24:51.000 Oh, wow.

01:24:52.000 So this gives you an idea.

01:24:55.000 It's features like this that are just unequivocal in terms of realizing that this is not pseudoscience.

01:25:03.000 This really happened.

01:25:05.000 And there's this date back to a very specific time?

01:25:09.000 Yes, to this 13,000 year.

01:25:12.000 So it's everywhere.

01:25:13.000 Everywhere you're seeing this.

01:25:14.000 You're seeing it geologically, you're seeing it in ice cores, you're seeing it in fossils.

01:25:18.000 Yes, yes.

01:25:19.000 Wow.

01:25:19.000 This is evidence of the big meltdown.

01:25:22.000 Has anybody ever tried to debate you on this stuff?

01:25:26.000 I would certainly welcome debate.

01:25:27.000 I don't claim to have the final, final word on this, but you know, here's the thing.

01:25:31.000 I've interacted with a lot of geologists that are studying this, professional geologists that are studying this.

01:25:38.000 What I can tell you is that in most cases, the geologists that are studying this, it's basically something they're doing in their spare time.

01:25:46.000 I think that the geological community is moving much closer to a scenario like I'm describing.

01:26:05.000 And right now there's actually a controversy because you know some of the the older guard is wanting to defend this idea of the Yolkalaus, this giant lake draining out.

01:26:16.000 There are a group of Canadian geologists though who are challenging that under a leadership of a man who may now be retired named John Shaw who goes back to the 1980s and began A reinterpretation of a very ubiquitous glacial feature called drumlins.

01:26:36.000 I can show you some pictures of them here after a bit.

01:26:39.000 They're very interesting.

01:26:40.000 They look like inverted boatholes.

01:26:44.000 They're always associated with the locations of the glaciers and the ice sheets.

01:26:50.000 So it was therefore assumed that they were somehow created by the glaciers themselves.

01:26:54.000 But glaciers tend to grind things that they're moving over and level things off and scratch them and leave striations and all of this, abrasion.

01:27:06.000 These drumlins are smooth, streamlined features.

01:27:09.000 What Shaw first proposed back in the late 80s was that they had actually been produced by water, flowing massive amounts of water, flowing under the glaciers.

01:27:22.000 Very similar.

01:27:23.000 The critic said, well, where did this water come from?

01:27:26.000 And he said, well, I don't know.

01:27:27.000 It must have been enormous subglacial lakes, subglacial reservoirs.

01:27:31.000 The critic said, well, there's no way that a reservoir as huge as your floods would require could have existed under the ice.

01:27:38.000 Therefore, your subglacial floods didn't exist.

01:27:42.000 And that was, to me, the fatal weakness in his theory was to explain where the water came from.

01:27:48.000 But I think now we can't explain where it came from.

01:27:50.000 And you believe it's an asteroid impact?

01:27:53.000 Again, by default, we look at all the possible, the cross-section of possible explanations within the realm of nature.

01:28:01.000 We can go through and we can eliminate this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, and what we're left with is one.

01:28:07.000 That, of itself, would be fully capable of doing it.

01:28:10.000 Fully capable and makes sense that it would happen instantaneously.

01:28:13.000 That would make sense that it would happen instantaneously.

01:28:14.000 Any other sort of thing that would...

01:28:16.000 So, is there an impact crater that corresponds to this timeline?

01:28:16.000 Yes.

01:28:20.000 Well, that's what I'm working on.

01:28:21.000 Trying to find it?

01:28:23.000 Yeah, and I think I've got a pretty good idea, but it's going to take some field research, and next summer I'm planning to do some more field research.

01:28:31.000 Is there an idea where it hit?

01:28:34.000 Yeah, I have several ideas.

01:28:35.000 You don't want to talk about it?

01:28:36.000 You want to keep it mum?

01:28:37.000 At this point.

01:28:38.000 You don't want anybody stealing your scoop?

01:28:39.000 But when it's time to reveal it, let's do it here.

01:28:43.000 Oh, I would love that.

01:28:44.000 I would love that.

01:28:44.000 Well, you've shown several impact craters.

01:28:48.000 You showed a bunch last time you were here.

01:28:50.000 The one in Australia that was, I believe you said 5,000 years ago?

01:28:55.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:28:56.000 And, of course, everybody is aware.

01:28:58.000 Hypothetically, it hasn't been proven yet because, again, some of these more recent craters of the last 10,000 years, some of these that have been hypothesized are actually on the bottom of the ocean.

01:29:09.000 The Burkle crater that I think we talked about on the bottom of the Indian Ocean, it's under two miles of seawater.

01:29:15.000 So until we can actually get back there and do more in-depth sampling and examination, it'll be impossible to prove it.

01:29:23.000 I think that the evidence is strongly supportive of that possibility that maybe 5,000 years ago there was a significant impact into the Indian Ocean that could have caused enormous tsunami waves.

01:29:35.000 Now, I actually posted one of the, somebody called into question some of the things I had said in the last interview about tsunamis.

01:29:46.000 And that the things I was saying weren't really tsunamis.

01:29:50.000 So I actually wrote an elaborate response to that, which is posted on the Sacred Geometry website, where I've gone into great detail, showing that the evidence really, in the end, I think does support the idea that there had been enormous tsunamis,

01:30:07.000 possibly hundreds of feet high, sweeping over the coastlines of the Indian Ocean, probably around 5,000 years ago.

01:30:14.000 That could have been the origin of some of the flood myths.

01:30:18.000 And your timeline, where this mass extinction event occurred, where the massive warming occurred, all that also coincides with the discovery of this nuclear glass all over Asia and Europe, which is somewhere in the,

01:30:36.000 when they do the core samples, of around the same area, right?

01:30:39.000 Around 12,000 plus years ago?

01:30:41.000 Yes.

01:30:41.000 What we can see here, We'll go through a second.

01:30:45.000 This is some of the research.

01:30:47.000 You can see this is very typical, the mysterious onset of the Younger Dryas.

01:30:54.000 Now, this has been kind of the consensus view, is that, OK, we don't have an explanation.

01:30:59.000 The Younger Dryas, remember, is that's that interval between those two spikes, right, where you had the warming, then the snap back to glacial cold, and then the warming again.

01:31:09.000 So that interval in between is the Younger Dryas.

01:31:12.000 So here they're saying the mysterious onset of the Younger Dryas, the 1300 year long Younger Dryas cold reversal.

01:31:18.000 And you notice the dates, 12,900 to 11,600.

01:31:22.000 That means calendar years before present.

01:31:25.000 So what they've done is they've calibrated this from radiocarbon dating, which is not necessarily going to be the same as the actual calendar years.

01:31:33.000 So those dates are very interesting.

01:31:37.000 11,600 years ago, you may recall from our last interview, is the date given by Plato for the subsidence of Atlantis.

01:31:45.000 11,000.

01:31:46.000 I mean, he says that Atlantis subsided.

01:31:49.000 Anybody can read this if they want to pick up Timaeus and Critias, the two dialogues that he describes Atlantis in.

01:31:56.000 He gives that date, 9,000 years before this exile of Solon in Egypt, which took place in 600 BC, roughly.

01:32:05.000 So, 600 BC, Roughly as 2,600 years ago.

01:32:09.000 Add that to the 9,000 years and there's your 11,600.

01:32:13.000 So now what has happened is 2,500 years ago, Plato gave a date, which would seem to suggest that something immense happened in the Atlantic Ocean and you had an island complex that sank.

01:32:26.000 Perhaps from rapid sea level rise.

01:32:28.000 Now, 2,500 years later, here's modern science coming up with the exact date showing, hey, there was a massive meltwater pulse into the ocean at that date.

01:32:38.000 Now, at this point, nobody within mainstream science is going, oh, well, see, he doesn't mention here, oh, that's the date given by Plato.

01:32:45.000 They don't say that, but it is the case.

01:32:49.000 That's incredible.

01:32:50.000 That's so amazing.

01:32:50.000 Yeah.

01:32:51.000 Now Plato, he was told that, right?

01:32:54.000 It was all through stories, right?

01:32:56.000 Yeah, it was handed down.

01:32:57.000 Solon handed it down, let's see if I can remember this, through Drapidus, Drapidus to Critias the Elder, Critias the Elder to Critias the Younger, then Critias the Younger, I guess to Socrates.

01:33:09.000 Actually at the forum where Plato would have heard it would have been the Socratic forum where it was told.

01:33:14.000 So I think there was like three generations between Solon and Plato.

01:33:19.000 The wise men of the time, or the people that were in charge of disseminating knowledge back then, it was such a critical job.

01:33:26.000 Critical job, yes.

01:33:27.000 No internet, no books.

01:33:28.000 And the whole thing was that the whole emphasis was on the oral transmission had to take place without not one iota of change.

01:33:39.000 It had to be transmitted from mouth to ear, Unbroken, without change, without alteration.

01:33:46.000 Which has always been the issue with human beings, hence that telephone game.

01:33:50.000 You know, you tell someone something, they tell you something.

01:33:54.000 But if you start out, and you know, it's going to be the same with Native Americans. 1.00

01:33:58.000 And the Native American storytellers have to go through a very long, arduous term of initiation to show that when they tell the story, it's going to be exactly like they heard it.

01:34:09.000 That's one of the basis of modern Freemasonry too.

01:34:12.000 We need to get that with today's modern gossip.

01:34:14.000 Yeah.

01:34:15.000 They need to nail that. 1.00

01:34:16.000 But let's just run through a quick succession here of some of the most recent research.

01:34:20.000 Shock synthesized hexagonal diamonds in Younger Dryas boundary sediments.

01:34:26.000 Now these shock synthesized hexagonal diamonds only occur.

01:34:30.000 There's no natural process that will produce them except for the intense heat and pressures of a cosmic impact.

01:34:39.000 Whoa.

01:34:40.000 Okay.

01:34:41.000 And what year was this study?

01:34:42.000 Oh, this has been very recent.

01:34:44.000 This is probably within the last 10 years.

01:34:47.000 There was something...

01:34:47.000 Since 2007. This is probably around 2011. There was something that was released very recently about micro-diamonds and micro-diamonds corresponding.

01:34:57.000 Last summer.

01:34:57.000 Yeah, and that also was the same timeline.

01:35:00.000 So it's just like the evidence keeps accumulating in this time period that something hit us.

01:35:04.000 Yes.

01:35:05.000 The micro-diamonds, the nuclear glass, the spikes in warming that's observable on the ice cores.

01:35:12.000 All correlates.

01:35:13.000 The mass extinction events of all these animals.

01:35:15.000 This is an event.

01:35:17.000 This is an event.

01:35:18.000 This is crazy that you're the guy talking about this event.

01:35:21.000 I mean, this is really nuts.

01:35:23.000 But not anything taken away from you, but there's so few people beating this drum that there's so much information.

01:35:30.000 We're talking about hard data.

01:35:32.000 You've shown on this show three, four different examples of hard data that points to this event.

01:35:41.000 Well, see here's the thing.

01:35:42.000 Modern science does tend to get over specialized.

01:35:45.000 And so what happens is the guy looking at extinctions might not be looking at glacial melting.

01:35:51.000 The guy who's looking at glacial melting isn't...

01:35:54.000 The geologist is not looking at what's going on in the sky.

01:35:57.000 They're not looking at Right.

01:36:22.000 I say, guys, men or women, anybody who's curious about this stuff, to look into it and try to see the big picture.

01:36:28.000 Why am I bringing this?

01:36:29.000 Well, it's just because for 40 years, I've been obsessed with this stuff.

01:36:33.000 And you know, I read two or three scientific articles every single day, and have done so for 40 years plus.

01:36:40.000 So that adds up after a while.

01:36:42.000 And I don't just read them, I study them, I take notes.

01:36:45.000 You know, two or three every single day.

01:36:47.000 So you figure, what is that?

01:36:48.000 A thousand a year.

01:36:50.000 You go back 40 years, that means I probably read something in the order of 40,000 scientific articles from anthropology, geology.

01:36:57.000 I studied geology and astronomy in college, so, you know, I have some academic background in that.

01:37:04.000 But, you know, basically what I have done is tried to piece together the big picture, because early on I saw, nobody's doing that.

01:37:12.000 Nobody's doing it, really.

01:37:14.000 And some of the guys that are out there doing it are not doing it with academic rigor.

01:37:20.000 You know, they're bringing in all kinds of weird stuff, which makes it easy for the critics to attack them and dismiss them as being fringe science.

01:37:27.000 They're throwing some woo into the mix.

01:37:29.000 They're throwing some woo into the mix, yeah.

01:37:31.000 In fact, one of the rational wiki entry on me says something about Randall Carlson and his woo.

01:37:42.000 That's all it says.

01:37:44.000 You know, so I took that as sort of a compliment.

01:37:47.000 Well, people love to be able to dismiss anything that's not mainstream, right?

01:37:51.000 Yeah, because there's this cult of authority.

01:37:54.000 You know, that's why you hear somebody says, well, what does a real scientist say about this?

01:37:58.000 What does a real scientist say about this flood?

01:38:00.000 And I'm like, well, which real scientist?

01:38:03.000 You know, Vic Baker, Richard Waite, you know, Roy Breckenridge, you know, I've read or talked to almost every scientist that's done work on the Missoula Flood.

01:38:14.000 You know, so I know what they're saying and what they're thinking, you know, and what they've written.

01:38:19.000 So, you know, when you say, well, what do the real scientists say?

01:38:22.000 Well, okay, let's get a little more specific.

01:38:23.000 Who are you talking about?

01:38:24.000 Because there are different points of view.

01:38:26.000 You know, are you talking about John Shaw's idea?

01:38:29.000 Are you talking about, you know, Victor Baker's ideas?

01:38:33.000 Or any of the others?

01:38:35.000 Well, you know, and that's the thing.

01:38:37.000 They say that because they don't really know.

01:38:39.000 They've got this idea in their mind that there's this authority that's got it all explained.

01:38:44.000 Which makes it easy, right?

01:38:45.000 Because if somebody's got it explained, then we don't need to concern ourselves with it or think about it.

01:38:50.000 So what I say is, okay, forget about who says what.

01:38:55.000 Let's just look at the facts.

01:38:57.000 Let the facts dictate to us what the meaning of all of this is.

01:39:02.000 And let's look at all points of view.

01:39:05.000 Because that's what I try to do.

01:39:06.000 You know, I've got in my archives here, I've got, you know, not only the research that supports the idea of a cosmic impact back during the Younger Dryas, but the criticisms of it as well.

01:39:18.000 You know, and I go, okay, how can we explain those criticisms?

01:39:21.000 And in the give and take of science, that's part of the process.

01:39:26.000 You know, that's how it evolves.

01:39:29.000 Because somebody puts out a new idea, You're supposed to attack it.

01:39:33.000 And then if it withstands the assault, the onslaught, that shows that it's a credible idea.

01:39:40.000 It's like a last man standing sort of thing.

01:39:43.000 And I think that the cosmic impact really is going to end up being the last man standing.

01:39:47.000 Well, it seems like there's so much evidence that you're bringing up that's so hard.

01:39:53.000 How do you say that word?

01:39:57.000 Condrite?

01:39:58.000 Condrite.

01:39:59.000 Condrite-like mineral from black mat.

01:40:01.000 I mean, all the various things, the micro diamonds, the nuclear glass, the mass extinction events, the evidence of the warming, the flooding.

01:40:14.000 The sea level rise.

01:40:14.000 All of it.

01:40:15.000 All in this one area.

01:40:17.000 Convergence, yeah.

01:40:18.000 And this is basically saying chondrite.

01:40:20.000 Chondrites are a type of meteorite.

01:40:22.000 So this is saying chondrite-like material.

01:40:24.000 In other words, material that would have had its origin in space from the black mat.

01:40:28.000 Now this black mat is really interesting.

01:40:30.000 I'm going to show you a couple of slides of it because this black mat layer It's black.

01:40:34.000 The reason it's black is because it's so loaded with soot.

01:40:37.000 And what is soot the result of?

01:40:40.000 Fire, right?

01:40:41.000 So let's go through here.

01:40:43.000 Yeah, this discovery of a nano-diamond-rich layer in the Greenland ice sheet.

01:40:47.000 So nobody had looked.

01:40:49.000 But when these guys, Richard Firestone and James West and James Kennett, these other scientists that are working on this Younger Dryas impact hypothesis, said to their colleagues, check out the Younger Dryas boundary layer 12,900 years ago and see if there's anything that shows up there.

01:41:05.000 They did and what do you suppose they found?

01:41:07.000 Here it is right here.

01:41:08.000 A nano-diamond rich layer.

01:41:10.000 So there it is showing up in the ice sheets.

01:41:13.000 Here's new evidence from a black math site in the Northern Andes supporting a cosmic impact 12,800 years ago.

01:41:22.000 Very high temperature impact melt products as evidence for cosmic air bursts impacts 12,900.

01:41:29.000 So they're getting closer and closer to refining the date, but it's coming in 12,800 to 12,900 years ago.

01:41:40.000 Wildlife, wildfire, and abrupt ecosystem disruption on California's Northern Channel Islands at the Alorod-Younger Dryas boundary at basically 12,900.

01:41:52.000 12.9 K-A means 12,900 years ago.

01:41:57.000 K, you know, is the universal, means 1,000.

01:41:59.000 Great.

01:41:59.000 That's great.

01:42:00.000 It's all the same.

01:42:01.000 Everything keeps coming back the same date.

01:42:03.000 Yeah.

01:42:04.000 Nanodiamond-rich layer across three continents, consistent with major cosmic impact at 12,800 calendar years before present.

01:42:14.000 Evidence from central Mexico supporting the Younger Dryas extraterrestrial impact hypothesis.

01:42:20.000 Evidence from northwestern Venezuelan Andes for extraterrestrial impact.

01:42:25.000 The black matte enigma.

01:42:28.000 Evidence for deposition of 10 million tons of impact spirals across four continents 12,800 years ago.

01:42:35.000 See, it's coming in, man.

01:42:36.000 It's coming in in abundance.

01:42:37.000 And what's gratifying to me As I theorized this 25 years ago.

01:42:43.000 And to see now the hard evidence coming in, supporting a scenario I had pieced together from all of these different realms of knowledge, is very gratifying to me.

01:42:43.000 Wow.

01:42:55.000 What was the seed in your mind that led you to be obsessed, for lack of a better word, with this?

01:43:02.000 Not only thing lack of a better word, I think it's pretty accurate, right, with this subject.

01:43:06.000 Okay, I guess it's time to come clean.

01:43:09.000 I was on mushrooms.

01:43:10.000 I was on top of a mountain.

01:43:12.000 Well, no, you're actually pretty close.

01:43:14.000 Yeah?

01:43:14.000 You are.

01:43:17.000 Okay, 1969. Oh, that's a good year for mushrooms.

01:43:20.000 Yeah.

01:43:21.000 Well, it wasn't mushrooms, but it was something in the family.

01:43:25.000 Okay.

01:43:26.000 I'm going to a rock concert.

01:43:29.000 In the beautiful summer day, early summer, 12,900 years ago, 1969. It's on a field next to a little airport just out southwest of the Twin Cities,

01:43:46.000 Minnesota, which is near where I grew up.

01:43:49.000 The Minnesota River flows through there.

01:43:52.000 Minnesota River flows into the Mississippi.

01:43:57.000 I think I'll have some slides coming up here I can maybe even show you.

01:44:01.000 So what we have here is that in the middle of this thing, between bands or whatever, I wandered off from the main area where the crowd was gathered to listen to the music and I walked over to these 200 foot high bluffs.

01:44:17.000 Overlooking the valley of the Minnesota River.

01:44:21.000 Now, the Minnesota River currently flows in a little channel at the bottom of this valley.

01:44:27.000 And I'm standing up on this hill and I'm looking down at this Minnesota River, you know, hundreds of feet below me in this channel.

01:44:37.000 And three miles, four miles across, I see another set of bluffs matching the ones that I'm standing on.

01:44:45.000 And I had this, all I can say is it was kind of a revelation that I'm looking down here at this little river flowing in a channel, and then I'm seeing just a gigantic version of that same channel, but it's three and four miles wide.

01:45:00.000 And I just looked at that, and it was almost as if For a short period of time, I got transplanted out of time or something.

01:45:11.000 I don't know how to explain it.

01:45:12.000 You could see this raging river that caused it.

01:45:15.000 I had this sense that this whole thing was a gigantic river at one time.

01:45:21.000 I came away from that with this idea planted in the back of my brain, and it bugged me for years after that, right?

01:45:29.000 And it was maybe five, six years.

01:45:32.000 This is now into the 70s.

01:45:33.000 There was not a whole lot on catastrophism available in the 70s.

01:45:37.000 There was, you know, Emmanuel Velikovsky, one of the forerunners.

01:45:41.000 But, you know, he came up with some really wild ideas that made it very easy for mainstream science to dismiss him.

01:45:49.000 But he came up with some really solid ideas, too.

01:45:51.000 His book, Earth and Upheaval, basically was just a documentation of all of this geological evidence for great catastrophes in the history of the Earth.

01:45:59.000 I think he misinterpreted the cause of those catastrophes, but nonetheless, When you look at the criticism, you've heard of Immanuel Velikovsky, right?

01:46:07.000 Velikovsky?

01:46:08.000 I think I've heard it from you.

01:46:09.000 Well, he was famous, best-selling author, one of the big best-selling authors of the 1950s.

01:46:09.000 Okay.

01:46:15.000 You know, maybe in a sense a forerunner of, in fact, Graham Hancock has been compared to Velikovsky now and then.

01:46:22.000 I've actually seen some of that.

01:46:26.000 Although Velikovsky's work I don't think was anywhere near as credible as Graham's.

01:46:30.000 Graham is very assiduous in his referencing and his detailing.

01:46:37.000 Velikovsky went way off into this really weird astrophysics to explain His theories of geological catastrophe, which again, allowed the critics to basically dismiss everything he had done.

01:46:48.000 But his book, Earth and Upheaval, I think has upheld the test of time.

01:46:52.000 Basically, in the 1950s, he was accumulating all of this evidence suggesting that there had been catastrophes in Earth history.

01:47:00.000 And it was, like I said, a bestseller, but the mainstream scientific community was very dismissive of it.

01:47:07.000 Okay, and then after that you had a book by Charles Hapgood called The Path of the Pole.

01:47:15.000 I think it came out in 76. And he and Neer theorized that there had been a sudden pole shift that had brought about, you know, the quick freezing of the mammoths and the end of the Ice Age and so forth.

01:47:27.000 So, you know, I was familiar with that stuff, and I would read that stuff just out of curiosity, you know, because that was some of the stuff that was out there.

01:47:35.000 And, you know, somebody would say, hey, did you read Velikovsky?

01:47:39.000 And so as I was reading this stuff, I would keep thinking back to this image I'd had of this.

01:47:45.000 And then, in the early 80s, I was talking to somebody, I actually gave one of my very early lectures on this stuff, and there was somebody who had a degree in geology who stood up and he said, no, no, no, no, that valley that you're talking about was created over millions of years.

01:48:00.000 I said, I don't think so.

01:48:01.000 And we kind of got into it a little bit.

01:48:03.000 But what that did was it kind of pissed me off.

01:48:06.000 And I said, okay, I'm going to research this thoroughly.

01:48:08.000 And I did.

01:48:10.000 I thoroughly researched it.

01:48:11.000 I went and I found every single thing that had been written on it and discovered that there's actually mainstream geologists that have said, yeah, That river channel, that giant river channel, was actually created by a huge meltwater flood.

01:48:24.000 And they estimated that its volume, they called it River Warren.

01:48:28.000 And they estimated that its volume might have been 4,000 times greater than the modern Minnesota River that's flowing in there.

01:48:34.000 So I felt very vindicated from that.

01:48:36.000 And this was by the early 80s.

01:48:38.000 So that was like one of the key things.

01:48:41.000 You know, I spent the summer of 1970 mostly sitting on a mountaintop in Colorado.

01:48:41.000 There was other things.

01:48:48.000 You know, in a hut that I had built, studying and reading stuff and traveling.

01:48:53.000 You know, this was back in the days when you could hitchhike and travel all over.

01:48:58.000 And I think at one point I was with a buddy and we were in his old camper van and other times I was hitchhiking.

01:49:03.000 But I spent the whole summer traveling around the western states.

01:49:10.000 I came away from that summer.

01:49:12.000 The first time I'd traveled down to Columbia Gorge, and as I did, I had this overwhelming sense that there was something in the landscape that was That was waiting to be revealed.

01:49:26.000 You know, I would look at these features in the Columbia Gorge when I showed you that huge, that waterfall with the basalt over, that's in the Columbia Gorge.

01:49:33.000 So that was the area I had traveled through in 1970. And I came away with that with this sense that, boy, there's something that that landscape is trying to tell me.

01:49:43.000 And so it goes back to that.

01:49:45.000 And I just, you know, I got very interested in this stuff because I'm interested in science and I love the outdoors.

01:49:52.000 So, you know, I love a good mystery, you know, and I love, you know, ancient traditions.

01:49:57.000 So all this sort of came together over a period of, you know, a couple of decades.

01:50:03.000 So I began really, I would say, obsessively really going into this in the early 80s, you know, where it went from just more or less casual reading into, you know, spending hours in university libraries, digging up these things,

01:50:20.000 going back to the early geologists to see what were they saying, why did they believe That the history of the Earth had been catastrophic.

01:50:30.000 And it just accelerated.

01:50:33.000 It doesn't seem like a ridiculous idea at all when you consider what we see on the Moon.

01:50:38.000 The Moon is so fascinating because we can look right at it.

01:50:41.000 There's no oceans.

01:50:43.000 There's no forests.

01:50:44.000 We can see the evidence of impacts all over it.

01:50:47.000 Just completely covered.

01:50:48.000 Completely covered.

01:50:49.000 With our minds living in this very small window of life, you know, if we're lucky we get a hundred years and then of course, you know, we have the history which goes back to about seven plus thousand years.

01:51:00.000 It's just not enough to really represent what we're looking at when we look at the moon.

01:51:06.000 When we look at the moon that's covered with craters, we're looking at potentially billions of years of impacts.

01:51:13.000 Yes, and the assumption that those impacts Ceased hundreds of millions or billions of years ago is clearly not correct.

01:51:22.000 Well, there's no evidence that it ceased or why it would cease.

01:51:24.000 Right.

01:51:25.000 When we look at how many known near-Earth objects are floating around...

01:51:30.000 Oh, in the last few years, there's been dozens of close flybys. 0.99

01:51:34.000 There was one the other day that had a fucking moon. 0.99

01:51:37.000 Yes, yes. 0.99

01:51:38.000 So...

01:51:39.000 Something that flew by that had its own moon.

01:51:42.000 Yeah, yeah, that's wild.

01:51:45.000 And so think about this, Joe.

01:51:46.000 Here's what's happening.

01:51:48.000 We've got geologists who are looking at the crust of the Earth and discovering that, yeah, if we strip away the biosphere and the oceans and account for plate tectonics, the Earth is going to look like the moon.

01:52:01.000 There are now hundreds of identified craters.

01:52:04.000 At the same time, astronomers are looking out into the near-Earth neighborhood of space and discovering, wait a second, we assumed that we were pretty much isolated, that there was nothing else going on.

01:52:17.000 We're now realizing that near-Earth space is densely populated.

01:52:21.000 The inner solar system is densely populated with cosmic debris.

01:52:26.000 And this stuff is whizzing by us all the time.

01:52:29.000 And now, at the same time, you've got paleontologists who are looking at the record of life and realizing that the record of life is not a smooth curve.

01:52:40.000 It's seesawed.

01:52:41.000 You know, life proliferates and then suddenly, bam, it's like the hammer comes down and you have these mass extinction events.

01:52:47.000 So this is our time right now, but it could very easily end.

01:52:52.000 And there could be some new bug-like creature that takes over and becomes super smart a billion years from now.

01:52:58.000 To me, it all comes down to this.

01:53:00.000 This to me is like...

01:53:02.000 Okay, human species on planet Earth, it's time for you to grow up and start paying attention to the bigger picture.

01:53:09.000 Because whether you like it or not, you're a part of the bigger picture.

01:53:12.000 And if we finally accept the fact that maybe our predecessors have undergone, in a sense, cultural mass extinctions, You know, it suddenly implies that we can't take our own unending future for granted.

01:53:27.000 That we have to incorporate this bigger picture into our thinking.

01:53:32.000 And you know, the evidence continues to Yes, like here.

01:53:39.000 This was just from 2011. Multiple lines of evidence for possible human population decline, settlement, reorganization during the early Younger Dryas.

01:53:50.000 In the three years, four years since this was published, more evidence has emerged that yes, the events that caused the mass extinction of half the great mega mammals on Earth Did not leave the rest of the mammals, the rest of the animals unscathed,

01:54:06.000 including humans.

01:54:07.000 And there's now emerging evidence, hard scientific evidence, that the human population crashed during the Younger Dryas.

01:54:14.000 So this would completely coincide with Graham Hancock's ideas about the Sphinx.

01:54:22.000 The Sphinx showing very clear, according to Robert Schock, Boston University geologist, John Anthony West, that there is clear evidence of water erosion in the Sphinx, which would indicate thousands of years of rainfall,

01:54:38.000 where there hasn't been rainfall in the Nile Valley since I believe it was 9000 BC. So that's 11,000 years ago.

01:54:46.000 It's all the same stuff.

01:54:47.000 It's all the same stuff.

01:54:48.000 God, this is crazy!

01:54:50.000 Yeah, we're on the verge of a major paradigm shift.

01:54:56.000 And where it's going to go remains to be seen.

01:54:58.000 We live in a shooting gallery.

01:55:01.000 Listen, it's not an exaggeration to say that we are sitting ducks in a cosmic shooting gallery.

01:55:07.000 Exactly.

01:55:09.000 But the point is, here's the point, is the only thing that's...

01:55:13.000 See, it's like...

01:55:14.000 What was it?

01:55:15.000 In the book of Matthew, there's an interesting quote, and I'm not thumping the Bible here, but the Bible is full of, just like all the traditions of ages are gone, the Bible is full of some very powerful, interesting stuff.

01:55:28.000 There's a part in here where one of the disciples asked Jesus about, when are we going to know about the end of days?

01:55:35.000 And he says, well, as it was in the days of Noah...

01:55:38.000 When the people were eating and drinking and marrying and giving in marriage, so will it be again in the days, the end of days, when the flood comes, and the people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the flood came and swept them away,

01:55:55.000 so will it be again at the end of days.

01:55:58.000 So what that seems to indicate to me is that we just get comfortable and relaxed and do well.

01:56:05.000 And when we do well, that's when we get hit by a big rock.

01:56:07.000 It's not saying that the everyday stuff, the stuff of everyday life, there's anything wrong.

01:56:12.000 It's not saying that.

01:56:13.000 It's just saying if we get so preoccupied with the minutia and the trivia of everyday life to the exclusion of the bigger picture, that's when we open ourselves up.

01:56:23.000 Well, there's been...

01:56:24.000 I've had these weird conversations with people about asteroidal impacts over the years because before I even met you, I've been obsessed with this stuff.

01:56:32.000 Not nearly as much as when I met you in Atlanta and we started talking, then I got really into it.

01:56:37.000 But what they would talk about The asteroids that killed the dinosaurs.

01:56:42.000 Oh, today we'd be able to stop that.

01:56:43.000 And I'm like, okay, really?

01:56:45.000 Is that true?

01:56:46.000 And then I started looking into it.

01:56:47.000 Well, what has been done? 0.99

01:56:49.000 Some fucking theories. 1.00

01:56:49.000 Nothing. 1.00

01:56:51.000 See, here's the thing.

01:56:52.000 Potentially, yes, we could.

01:56:54.000 Someday.

01:56:55.000 And really...

01:56:55.000 We could do it.

01:56:57.000 You know, within a decade or two, yes, we could.

01:56:59.000 We could do that.

01:57:00.000 Right now, potentially.

01:57:02.000 But see, what happened on February 15th of 2014, when that little meteor came in and exploded over Chelyabinsk, Siberia, injured 1,500 people.

01:57:13.000 Now, you know, it damaged thousands of buildings.

01:57:16.000 That was a wake-up call, right?

01:57:18.000 That was a little speck.

01:57:19.000 That was a little speck.

01:57:21.000 Now, here's the thing.

01:57:22.000 If it had been a little bigger, a little denser, if its angle of approach had been a little steeper, if its velocity had been a little bit greater, we might have been looking at thousands of deaths rather than just injuries.

01:57:35.000 And Tunguska, as you said, only a 150-foot-wide object.

01:57:39.000 Only a 150-foot-wide object, right.

01:57:42.000 So that's very, very small in the cosmic sense.

01:57:42.000 Right.

01:57:45.000 That's this room.

01:57:47.000 Yeah, well, it's the building.

01:57:48.000 Yeah, well, from here to the front door, you know, I mean, that's not that big.

01:57:52.000 That's not that big.

01:57:53.000 What you've got, though, is velocity.

01:57:55.000 And you think, like, you know, think of, say, a.38 slug.

01:57:59.000 It's not big.

01:57:59.000 If I was to throw it at you even as hard as I could, it might sting a little bit, but it wouldn't do any damage.

01:58:04.000 But if it came out of a gun with a muzzle velocity of 1,000 feet per second, think about that little thing and what the damage it would do to you.

01:58:11.000 Yeah.

01:58:12.000 And see, that's the thing about an asteroid or a meteorite or a comet coming in, it's moving really, really fast.

01:58:18.000 You know, so that's why, like I said, it packs such a powerful kinetic punch when it hits.

01:58:25.000 And some of them are even made of iron.

01:58:28.000 Some of them are made of iron.

01:58:30.000 Yeah.

01:58:32.000 So if there's a moral to all of this, it's simply this.

01:58:36.000 Look, we are the one species that could prevent the type of mass extinctions that have dominated the biosphere of this planet for a couple of hundred million years.

01:58:46.000 Or we could keep putting our resources to fracking.

01:58:49.000 Yeah.

01:58:50.000 Well, I still haven't made up my mind about fracking yet.

01:58:54.000 But, you know, I do believe that what we need to do is be thinking of if we're going to extract the resources of this planet, Let's do so in such a way that what we're doing is implementing the transcendence of human culture into the cosmos itself.

01:59:11.000 Because I ultimately believe that is the destiny of terrestrial life, is that terrestrial life wants to become cosmic.

01:59:18.000 It knows on some level that as long as life is confined to the surface of a planet, it's vulnerable.

01:59:26.000 And, you know, without getting into all of this, there's growing evidence, you know, that life originally came to this planet from space, right?

01:59:34.000 Was seeded here probably through comets that carry organic material.

01:59:39.000 Panspermia, right?

01:59:40.000 Panspermia, exactly.

01:59:42.000 So here's the thing.

01:59:44.000 You know, if you're an environmentalist and rightfully critical of some of the things that humans are doing to disrupt the environment, you've got to though place in context the fact that nature itself has done things to the environment that so far exceed anything we have done yet.

02:00:02.000 What I showed you with that slide showing the ice sheets over Canada, think about this.

02:00:07.000 Suppose some logging company got a contract from the government, U.S. and Canadian governments, to clear cut every forest from like the 47th parallel up to the Arctic Circle from the Atlantic to the Pacific.

02:00:21.000 We're going to cut every single tree.

02:00:24.000 From the northern United States up to the tree line in northern Canada, we're going to cut billions of trees, billions of bored feet.

02:00:32.000 We're going to clear cut every single tree.

02:00:34.000 We would rightfully be up in arms and say, no, you're not going to do that, right?

02:00:38.000 Well, what do you think that ice did?

02:00:41.000 It wiped out.

02:00:42.000 You know, there's evidence now that 35,000 and 40,000 years ago, there were forests growing up there.

02:00:48.000 Right?

02:00:48.000 A few thousand years later, the ice has bulldozed everything.

02:00:52.000 There's no forests growing under two miles of ice, right?

02:00:56.000 Imagine if we said, well, we're going to just decimate the shallow marine ecologies. 0.65

02:01:01.000 We're going to go in there and we're going to just wipe out the coral reefs.

02:01:04.000 We're going to overfish them until there's nothing left of the shallow marine ecologies less than 400 feet below sea level.

02:01:13.000 What do you think a drop of 400 feet in the sea level did to the shallow marine ecologies?

02:01:20.000 To the coral reefs that were growing there.

02:01:22.000 You see, that's what I'm just saying.

02:01:24.000 It's not to justify that we can ransack nature willy-nilly, but it's to say we have to have a realistic context for thinking about this.

02:01:34.000 And bear in mind, the environmental movement was born during an era of total gradualistic dominance in the 50s and 60s.

02:01:43.000 If you go back then, Again, only the fringe, you know, the fringe science people like Velikovsky and others were talking about catastrophes.

02:01:54.000 The assumption was that all global change occurred one grain of sand or one drop of water at a time, right?

02:02:01.000 Well, we've come 180 degrees from that model of Earth history.

02:02:06.000 But our thinking has not really evolved to incorporate such a dynamic planet You know, at this point.

02:02:14.000 Now see, so when the environmental movement was born, it was easy to think that if all change had happened at this imperceptibly slow rate, that yeah, obviously, then humans have accelerated that pace of change, and humans are now contributing to, you know, more global change than we've seen in millions of years.

02:02:32.000 If that uniformitarian or gradualistic model was correct, but it's not.

02:02:39.000 And I'm afraid that there's a large faction of the environmental movement that's still locked into that thinking of a gradual evolution of the planet, one grain of water, one drop of water, one grain of sand at a time, and that it has not suffered any kind of disruption until we bad humans came along and started,

02:03:00.000 you know, With our factories and our oil wells and our SUVs and everything else.

02:03:07.000 But, you know, clearly, we have to come to terms with the fact that we live on one hell of a dynamic planet.

02:03:12.000 And one hell of a dynamic solar system.

02:03:14.000 One hell of a dynamic solar system.

02:03:15.000 Without Jupiter, right? 0.99

02:03:16.000 We'd be fucked a long time ago. 0.99

02:03:18.000 We would be. 1.00

02:03:19.000 Somebody said they wanted to hear me say the word fuck at least once on one of those solar... 0.99

02:03:25.000 So I'll go ahead and throw it. 1.00

02:03:26.000 Yeah, we would be fucked. 0.99

02:03:28.000 Jupiter is the big kind, like the bouncer for all the bigger asteroids that get sucked into it. 0.99

02:03:34.000 Well, Jupiter can play a dual role.

02:03:37.000 See, Jupiter can act as the bouncer that kicks a lot of those guys back out, you know, back out into the Kuiper disk or wherever they came from.

02:03:47.000 But it can also hurdle stuff in towards us.

02:03:51.000 It can do either one.

02:03:53.000 Sacred Geometry is a subject that I wanted to talk to you about because we could go on about cataclysmic impacts forever, but it's one of the things that you mentioned at the end of our last podcast that you wanted to talk about on this one.

02:04:06.000 Yeah.

02:04:07.000 And it's the name of your organization, Sacred Geometry.

02:04:12.000 Well, it's the name of the website.

02:04:14.000 Yeah.

02:04:15.000 I could find some stuff here to show you about that.

02:04:17.000 And it dovetails because, remember, we're talking here a lot about geology, geometry, right?

02:04:24.000 They both are sciences that have evolved out of the study of the Earth.

02:04:29.000 And, you know, one of the things that I've done is, you know, in geology, we have this thing called scale and variance, which is that if you look at a geological picture, you're always going to see somebody.

02:04:40.000 You're going to see like a rock pic set in the picture.

02:04:43.000 You're going to see a person standing there because oftentimes you don't have a sense of the scale of what you're looking at, right?

02:04:51.000 And in geometry, we have the same phenomena.

02:04:54.000 It's also kind of the modern term for it is fractalization, where the part looks, the smaller part looks like the bigger hole.

02:05:01.000 And that's one of the basic working ideas of sacred geometry.

02:05:05.000 And it's the same idea of what I was describing standing there looking into the Minnesota River Valley.

02:05:11.000 This was an example of scale invariance.

02:05:15.000 The big channel was just a much, much larger version of this small channel.

02:05:20.000 If you didn't have a scale of reference, you couldn't tell really what you're looking at, how big or how small it is.

02:05:28.000 So, in the study of sacred geometry, one of the fundamental ideas is this idea of scale and variance.

02:05:34.000 So, when I first was interested in geometry, because geometry, I think, is one of the keys to deciphering many of the ancient traditions.

02:05:42.000 Like, you know, I became a, somebody wanted me to talk about Freemasonry, and I, you know, can talk about that up to a certain extent, you know.

02:05:51.000 One of the things that I learned, actually I think I learned it before I was actually initiated into the Masonic fraternity in 1978, was that at the core of all the Masonic symbolism was geometry.

02:06:03.000 If you wanted to understand the message of the great cathedrals, you had to have geometry.

02:06:08.000 If you wanted to understand this amazing plethora of symbolism of which Masons are the custodians, you had to study geometry. 0.68

02:06:20.000 And secondarily, you had to study astronomy.

02:06:22.000 So that sort of confirmed some of the ideas I had already been thinking at the time that I went in, in the late 70s.

02:06:31.000 Freemasonry is full of symbolism.

02:06:34.000 Why did you join the Freemasons?

02:06:35.000 Well, you know, because for one thing, I've always loved our, you know, I come from a family of builders.

02:06:40.000 I build things for a living.

02:06:42.000 That's what I do.

02:06:43.000 I design things and I build things for a living.

02:06:45.000 That's how I make my money.

02:06:47.000 So I was always interested in the built environment.

02:06:50.000 And somewhere along the line, I just began to realize that there was a whole lot more to the built environment of ancient times that In modern times, you look at architecture and that architecture is not necessarily symbolical, except on a very abstract sense.

02:07:06.000 I became aware of the fact that the ancient architecture, the ancient structures, whether it's the pyramids of Giza or Stonehenge or Angkor Wat or the Mayan temples, they're all profoundly symbolic.

02:07:19.000 They're not just built because, hey, it looks good.

02:07:23.000 No, they convey information.

02:07:27.000 You know, cathedrals, it was Victor Hugo who referred to some of the great cathedrals as being literal textbooks in stone.

02:07:34.000 And that's what they are.

02:07:35.000 Chartres Cathedral, beautiful example of a textbook in stone.

02:07:39.000 And I don't know if you've ever been to any of the cathedrals?

02:07:44.000 No.

02:07:45.000 That's something you need to put on your bucket list, Joe.

02:07:48.000 Yeah, I'm planning on going to Europe this summer, so when I do, on a vacation instead of working.

02:07:54.000 Yeah, that's, yeah.

02:07:55.000 Make it a research vacation.

02:07:57.000 Make it a lot more interesting.

02:07:58.000 And before you go...

02:07:59.000 I have kids.

02:08:00.000 It's tough to do a lot of research.

02:08:02.000 We've got little kids that get bored real easy. 0.99

02:08:03.000 But I'm going to check some shit out. 1.00

02:08:05.000 Yeah, check some shit out, you know. 0.99

02:08:07.000 I can send you some places that, I don't know about your kids, but I could easily have been eight years old and been totally blown away by it. 0.99

02:08:13.000 Okay.

02:08:14.000 Well, one of the things about the Freemasons, the idea of the Freemasons, is that it's a secret society.

02:08:21.000 Yeah.

02:08:22.000 And it's a secret, you know, and people associate it with the Illuminati and the people that control the world.

02:08:29.000 Don't I wish.

02:08:31.000 You know, Joe, I think I would love to be the supreme dictator of the world.

02:08:36.000 Really?

02:08:37.000 What would you do differently?

02:08:38.000 Differently.

02:08:42.000 Yeah, that's a five-hour podcast.

02:08:43.000 Yeah, that's a different podcast.

02:08:45.000 Right.

02:08:47.000 But when you say, like, I'm a Mason, people would automatically, you know, especially ignorant people, would automatically assume that you're a part of some sort of society that's victimizing the general population and you're involved with the people that put the eyeball on top of the pyramid that's on the dollar bill.

02:09:07.000 You're... 0.94

02:09:09.000 You know, I don't even know where to start with some of that nonsense. 0.91

02:09:11.000 Are there secrets in the Freemasons?

02:09:13.000 Were you not allowed to talk about it?

02:09:14.000 Well, bear in mind.

02:09:15.000 Now, secrets, you know, in the Middle Ages, there were trade secrets and, you know, building secrets, clearly, you know.

02:09:25.000 And when you went through the process of initiation, you learned about these secrets, right?

02:09:30.000 But it's not really that different, the idea, than, say, modern commercial or industrial secrets.

02:09:38.000 You know, Coke keeps its formula secret, and has done so for a hundred years.

02:09:44.000 But the thing was, is you've got to realize that Freemasonry became an outlawed organization.

02:09:50.000 Right?

02:09:51.000 During the Middle Ages, when the Church was persecuting anybody who was branded a heretic, which could have meant anything that they wanted to be, Freemasonry had to go underground.

02:10:02.000 And that's the primary reason for the secrecy, is because it was a survival strategy.

02:10:09.000 And it only re-emerged in the early 1700s with the consolidation of four lodges in Britain to become the modern institution Freemason.

02:10:19.000 And, you know, to anybody who comes up with that, I would just challenge them, show me the hard evidence.

02:10:23.000 Show me that, you know, I like to say that, well, yeah, I'll admit, you know, 14 of the American presidents have been Freemasons, but 22 of them were Episcopalians.

02:10:31.000 So clearly that implies to me that it's the Episcopalians who are the puppet masters ruling the world, right?

02:10:37.000 If you want to make that argument.

02:10:39.000 Well, why were they Freemasons? 0.54

02:10:41.000 Like, what's the benefits of being a Freemason?

02:10:43.000 Well, for one thing, what you're doing is you're aligning yourself with probably the oldest institution that still exists on the planet, that goes back.

02:10:52.000 Now we can historically trace it back to the Middle Ages.

02:10:55.000 But if you go back further than that, while the historical continuity We can go back and we can talk about the Comachines in Italy.

02:11:04.000 We can talk about the Martinists.

02:11:06.000 We can talk about the Mithraeus tradition.

02:11:10.000 We can talk about the mysteries of Egypt.

02:11:13.000 We can talk about the Zoroastrian tradition.

02:11:17.000 The list goes on.

02:11:18.000 The Eleusinian mysteries.

02:11:19.000 And what we see is a structure of initiation that's virtually identical in all these cases to what modern Freemasonry is.

02:11:28.000 And with modern Freemasonry, basically, you know, you have a whole cross-section of individuals that join.

02:11:35.000 A lot of them joined simply because, hey, my dad was a Freemason, or my uncle.

02:11:40.000 It was a family tradition.

02:11:41.000 So that's why I joined.

02:11:43.000 Others joined because Freemasons raise, every year, raise millions of dollars for charity.

02:11:47.000 Mostly For children's charitable causes.

02:11:51.000 You know, they run the Scottish Rite Hospital for crippled and burned children.

02:11:55.000 They run eye hospitals and, you know, children that need medical care, they can go to these hospitals and not have to pay anything.

02:12:03.000 So they're a fraternal organization.

02:12:05.000 They're one of the largest charitable organizations on the planet in terms of the money that they raise.

02:12:10.000 You know, again, Jesus said, by their works, ye shall know them, you know.

02:12:17.000 You know, you can twist that around, perversely twist that around and say that's some kind of nefarious strategy to, you know, whatever, get control.

02:12:24.000 The other side of the equation is that they're also custodians of this body of ancient symbolism, where all of these things that we have been talking about basically are encoded.

02:12:37.000 And I could pull up some interesting stuff here that you, you know, that you could look at to see What we're actually talking about there.

02:12:46.000 But yeah, they have this amazing body of symbolism.

02:12:50.000 Let me pull it.

02:12:51.000 Here's an example of a Masonic apron.

02:12:54.000 Okay, let's take a look at this.

02:12:56.000 We'll zoom in here.

02:12:58.000 And what do you see right at the very center of this symbolical array?

02:13:04.000 What is that?

02:13:06.000 I think it's a barn.

02:13:08.000 It's not a barn.

02:13:09.000 Is that the Ark?

02:13:09.000 It's the Ark!

02:13:11.000 That's Noah's Ark.

02:13:13.000 So that's supposed to be the ocean around it?

02:13:16.000 It's floating in the waters of the Great Flood.

02:13:19.000 And if you look closely, I know it's hard to tell, but growing out of here...

02:13:22.000 It's a chicken?

02:13:23.000 No, it's an acacia.

02:13:25.000 Oh, the acacia bush.

02:13:27.000 It's a Masonic symbol for rebirth, regeneration, rejuvenation.

02:13:31.000 So the idea here is that in that ark is preserved all of the seeds, the biological diversity of the world that is now being erased from the planet by the waters of the flood.

02:13:42.000 The acacia, is it related to the acacia tree or the acacia bush?

02:13:46.000 Is it the same sort of thing?

02:13:47.000 You know, that's the same bush that they believe is responsible for Moses having the visions of God.

02:13:55.000 Giving him the Ten Commandments because the acacia bush is rich in dimethyltryptamine.

02:14:01.000 The flaming bush being symbolic of somehow or another extracting the DMT from that, smoking it, or lighting it on fire.

02:14:11.000 And that being the transmission method for the dimethyltryptamine, which of course is one of the most profound psychedelic experiences and gives people this feeling of being in contact with the divine.

02:14:23.000 Now, do you think it's any coincidence that the Freemasons have venerated the acacia for hundreds of years?

02:14:29.000 It makes a lot of sense.

02:14:30.000 Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?

02:14:31.000 Yeah.

02:14:32.000 Well, there's modern day scholars who are looking at the story of Moses and connecting it to some sort of a psychedelic trip.

02:14:32.000 Yeah.

02:14:40.000 Yeah.

02:14:41.000 Here is...

02:14:42.000 Which is another thing that's slowly being exonerated today.

02:14:46.000 Those ideas are being vindicated today in a way that before, you know, you would say just a few decades ago that somehow or another Moses was on drugs. 0.99

02:14:54.000 I'm like, get the fuck out of here. 0.96

02:14:56.000 And people would just... 0.95

02:14:57.000 And any real legitimate sort of stories being connected to psychedelic drugs, people would think of as being preposterous.

02:15:05.000 And now it's more and more accepted every day.

02:15:08.000 Right.

02:15:08.000 Simply because the evidence is accumulating.

02:15:11.000 It's overwhelming.

02:15:12.000 There's no question that in the Ellisonian mysteries they were imbibing some type of a consciousness altering substance.

02:15:18.000 I think that there's no question during the Mithraic mysteries also they were.

02:15:23.000 They don't know what that was though, right?

02:15:24.000 Not exactly, unless you, you know, I think, who was it, maybe Albert Hoffman and a couple others, they wrote a book in the 70s on the Ellicinian mysteries where they were talking about that, and I read it so long ago I've kind of forgotten What their final conclusion was,

02:15:41.000 but it was definitely that they were doing some type of a psychedelic potion.

02:15:45.000 Well, even Soma, when you go back to the ancient Hindus, the Soma being some sort of a mystery concoction. 0.99

02:15:52.000 They don't know what it was, but it most likely had some sort of psychedelic properties to it.

02:15:57.000 Exactly.

02:15:58.000 They just don't know what it was.

02:15:59.000 They don't know exactly what it was.

02:16:00.000 Which is amazing when you consider the fact that this stuff was so profound and so important to them, and now we don't even know what was in it.

02:16:08.000 Most likely some concoction probably included psychedelic mushrooms.

02:16:13.000 Yeah, well I'm convinced that one of the great boons to humankind is psychedelics and it was a profound mistake to criminalize it when we should have venerated it as ancient cultures did and provided a context in which people could do it With wisdom,

02:16:31.000 you know, and propriety rather than driving it underground, you know, turning it into a criminal enterprise.

02:16:36.000 That has been, I think, enormously, had enormous destructive consequences for our society by criminalizing this for the last half century.

02:16:44.000 Yeah, well most certainly, and you can see the difference in the art of the 1960s, especially when it comes to music, the difference between the 60s and the 70s.

02:16:52.000 The shallow nature of a lot of the music that came out of the 70s and the disco and all that stuff.

02:16:57.000 And then look at what was going on in the 60s with Hendrix and Jim Morrison, most likely psychedelic-related.

02:17:04.000 Oh, of course it was.

02:17:05.000 Yeah, of course it was.

02:17:06.000 Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, the profound change in the music of The Beatles once they discovered LSD. Oh, it inspired an enormous burst of creativity.

02:17:16.000 What's really interesting that what we're seeing now is huge benefits in psychedelic therapy for people with post-traumatic stress disorders.

02:17:24.000 And it's out of war that we're finding these therapies for people that went to war.

02:17:31.000 And these therapies, the best ones, are psychedelics.

02:17:35.000 Which is really amazing.

02:17:35.000 Yeah.

02:17:36.000 Well, you know, in my own case, you know, I basically went from essentially being a juvenile delinquent to the quest for God in one weekend after my first.

02:17:46.000 Basically.

02:17:47.000 Wow.

02:17:50.000 It was that quick.

02:17:52.000 A lot of people have had the same story.

02:17:54.000 I mean, Terence McKenna spoke of one of his trips to the jungle being that he was this sort of ne'er-do-well, just couldn't get it together, and then he came out of it this psychedelic shaman who had this intense desire to spread the word.

02:18:08.000 Yeah.

02:18:09.000 Yep.

02:18:09.000 Yeah.

02:18:10.000 So...

02:18:11.000 Yeah, and I think we're definitely moving in the right direction.

02:18:15.000 Of course, for me, I'm impatient.

02:18:18.000 I want to see it move a lot faster.

02:18:20.000 I want to see us just end this ridiculous drug war.

02:18:24.000 Of course, there's going to be a downside to it.

02:18:26.000 There's a downside to everything.

02:18:29.000 The upside is so substantial.

02:18:31.000 The upside is so substantial, and the downside of it is minuscule compared to the downside of the drug war itself.

02:18:37.000 Not only that, how about the drugs that we already have that are legal?

02:18:41.000 The drugs that are sanctioned are the worst ones.

02:18:43.000 The worst ones, yeah.

02:18:45.000 We're not going to have a drug-free society.

02:18:48.000 I've had Dr. Carl Hart on the podcast, who's an expert in this, and has written some pretty amazing stuff on it.

02:18:56.000 And one of the things that he said is, not only do we not want a drug-free culture, we've never had one.

02:19:02.000 No one has ever had this idea of a drug-free culture.

02:19:05.000 They've never existed.

02:19:07.000 Once people figured out a way to perturb their normal states of consciousness and the benefits of that, whether it's alcohol or psychedelics or whatever it's been, even yoga and meditation, you're essentially, you're stimulating endogenous drugs.

02:19:21.000 Yes, yes.

02:19:22.000 And see, here's the thing.

02:19:23.000 Somebody brought this up.

02:19:24.000 I don't remember who.

02:19:25.000 It might have been somebody like Richard Alpert or something back in the day.

02:19:28.000 Saying that, you know, you can embark on a quest for spiritual enlightenment and mystical at-one-ment, right, through this arduous program of yoga and meditation and all of that, and it'll take you years.

02:19:43.000 But who's going to embark upon such a program not really knowing that the end of it is this ecstatic mystical union with the Godhead, right?

02:19:54.000 Well, they said that basically nature's provided shortcuts so that, you know, we could actually see what the goal of it was and know that, yeah, at the end of this process that might take you ten years or five years or whatever, depending on your dedication,

02:20:10.000 there is this experience of your consciousness expanding into these ecstatic states.

02:20:16.000 Agents of evolution as it were and that's the thing that people I think universally feel from psychedelic experiences is that it allows you to get over a lot of these sort of built-in instincts that we have from our thousands of years of evolution and The time that we were essentially living like wild animals.

02:20:40.000 Those genes are still in our system.

02:20:43.000 And we have all these ideas of paranoia and fear and ego and jealousy and all these different things that allowed us to be ultra-competitive, which allowed us to innovate at a faster rate, which allowed us to get to where we are in 2015. But those things are kind of hampering us because we're outgrowing the monkey body.

02:21:05.000 It's like, you know, if we're going to travel to...

02:21:08.000 we want to travel to Europe, right?

02:21:11.000 You can't drive there in a car.

02:21:12.000 You can go drive from here to the East Coast, but once you get to the coastline, you have to get out of the car and get into a different vehicle, right?

02:21:19.000 Because if you keep driving in the same car, you're going to go into the ocean and you're going to drown, right?

02:21:24.000 We're kind of like that in the sense that, you know, see, I think that war was perhaps inevitable, you know, because it's embedded in our consciousness.

02:21:33.000 You see, I just showed you here evidence that the human population crashed coming out of the Younger Dryas.

02:21:39.000 Well, what's ironic is that after the Ice Age was over, for about three or four thousand years, from six thousand to about nine thousand, nine thousand five hundred years ago, what we had was a period known as the climatic optimum by the scientists who've looked at it,

02:21:56.000 in which some of the estimates are that global average climate might have been two to four degrees warmer than now.

02:22:02.000 What that meant was that you had a much longer growing season.

02:22:07.000 And anybody who doubts this, please do your own research or I can post all kinds of stuff online that anybody who's not immediately, you know, can't handle this kind of information, anybody who's open-minded can actually go and do their homework and see that the climatic optimum is well documented.

02:22:26.000 And for about three to four thousand years, Basically, we were living in an almost quasi-paradisial state, almost a Garden of Eden-like.

02:22:36.000 It was almost like after the traumatic birth of this modern age, the Holocene that we're in, it's like nature just sort of was this...

02:22:47.000 Nurturing environment, it was during this period that humans were worshipping the earth in the form of this corpulent, pregnant goddess, right? 0.99

02:22:56.000 It's been called the goddess civilization by Maria Gimbutas, who was the archaeologist who did all of this work.

02:23:02.000 And what was interesting, if you look into her work, is that during this period of the early Neolithic, in the archaeological terminology, there's no evidence of any warfare.

02:23:13.000 There's no evidence that people, you know, looking at the carvings that people did, the artwork that people did, looking at the communities, there were not stockades like there were later.

02:23:25.000 There was no evidence in the archaeological record of, you know, weaponization.

02:23:32.000 It makes sense because in the aftermath of this extreme event that ended the Ice Age, what you had was huge areas of the planet that were depopulated.

02:23:43.000 Nature quickly begins to reclaim and what you now have is you have this sort of this benign warmth where growing seasons are months longer than now.

02:23:56.000 You know farming you know 14-15 hundred feet higher in the mountains than is now possible.

02:24:03.000 You know You know, longer growing seasons and rapid expansion of population during this era.

02:24:10.000 This would have been the era, you know, think about what was the biblical injunction that Yahweh gave to Adam and Eve.

02:24:16.000 What did he say?

02:24:17.000 Be fruitful and multiply.

02:24:20.000 Replenish the earth and subdue it.

02:24:23.000 Be fruitful and multiply.

02:24:24.000 Well, if you've got a species hovering on the brink of extinction, what's the most important thing that that species can do?

02:24:31.000 Lots of sex.

02:24:32.000 Lots of reproduction, right? 0.72

02:24:35.000 In the context of those times, it would have been very important for people to have lots of sex to quickly re-establish the viability of the human species because we were literally, it now appears, hovering on the brink of extinction as were so many of the other large mammals of the planet,

02:24:53.000 right?

02:24:54.000 And nature gave us this interval, this window of three or four thousand years of extremely mild climate, right?

02:25:02.000 During this time, Human population rapidly expanded and moved into these vacated habitats around 6,000 years ago.

02:25:11.000 The climate shifted.

02:25:13.000 What started has been called by the paleoclimatologist the neoglaciation because the planet cooled a couple of degrees.

02:25:22.000 What happened?

02:25:24.000 Agricultural habitats contracted.

02:25:27.000 The growing, the elevation of viable agriculture came down.

02:25:32.000 Okay, now if you've got settled human communities that have become well-established And living in the context of that environment, and now suddenly that environment changes, right?

02:25:46.000 Exactly coincident with those environmental changes around six thousand years ago is when we see the first appearance of human conflict.

02:25:53.000 Because now with this change in climate you've got this disruption, this major disruption in human communities that have been well established and proliferating for three or four thousand years.

02:26:03.000 Think about, you know, if you're living in a community and you're farming at 10,000 feet above sea level, a smaller example, a micro example, would be the freezing out of the Greenland colonists with the onset of the Little Ice Age, right?

02:26:18.000 For 500 years, they were able to farm on the west coast of Greenland.

02:26:23.000 And then the Little Ice Age came on and they were frozen out.

02:26:26.000 And they tried to hang on as long as they could, but it kept getting harder and harder to grow crops.

02:26:33.000 And then the climate declined further and the sea ice began to move south.

02:26:37.000 And the ones who waited too long lost their opportunity because once the sea ice had moved south, it cut off the sea lanes so that they could actually evacuate.

02:26:46.000 The Greenland colonies completely went extinct.

02:26:49.000 Iceland itself was almost completely depopulated during this.

02:26:53.000 If we take that scenario, expand it, and go back 6,000 years ago, we essentially see a very similar parallel phenomena going on.

02:27:02.000 And so, when you figure, during that Civilization Age of the Goddess, this time that people were worshiping the Earth in the form of this corpulent, pregnant goddess, this benign, motherly, nurturing goddess, there was no reason for conflict, because human populations were small, 0.67

02:27:19.000 they were isolated, resource base was enormous, And then, with the climate change, what happened?

02:27:26.000 Suddenly now, human communities and populations are disrupted, migrations began happening, one group conflicts with another group, and now we see the implements and the evidence of warfare.

02:27:39.000 If we go back to 10,000, 12,000 years ago, clearly, whatever happened then, Must have been profoundly traumatic to the survivors.

02:27:48.000 Think about this.

02:27:49.000 If you were the survivor of an event that basically erased modern civilization and you were living in a small isolated band of survivors with no way to communicate with the rest of the world and no knowledge of whether there was even other survivors anywhere on the earth,

02:28:05.000 it could profoundly affect your consciousness.

02:28:09.000 And that could be so profound That the imprint of those events could be so profound that it could be passed on, you know, for generations and be lodged in our subconscious, this idea of human conflict necessary for human survival and the traumas that have been visited upon our species by nature itself.

02:28:31.000 So I think that once we come to terms with the possibly origins of human, only until we come to terms with the origin of human conflict, are we going to be able to purge it once and for all and realize that the modern analog for that scenario was that coming out of that catastrophe,

02:28:53.000 a Abundant resources, abundant habitat, abundant space, no conflict for territory or resources because the human population was limited.

02:29:03.000 What I suggest is that if people want to understand the viable future of the human species, go out on a crystal clear night and look at the sky.

02:29:14.000 There is the future.

02:29:15.000 There's our potential future because the scenarios that have been around since the 1970s show that everything that we're extracting now from the earth, the minerals, the precious metals, the hydrocarbons, It's all out there in infinite abundance and it's basically just outside of our doorstep.

02:29:34.000 And we are as close now to being able to harvest the resources of the cosmic environment as we were from setting foot on the moon in 1960. Do you think we've been visited before by something from other planets?

02:29:49.000 I think perhaps long, long ago, maybe.

02:29:53.000 But there's another scenario there that has been overlooked in all of the discussions about UFOs and aliens and at some point we'll talk about that.

02:30:01.000 At some point?

02:30:02.000 Yeah.

02:30:03.000 You tease.

02:30:04.000 Well, you know, it's the kind of thing where you kind of need to lay out the case.

02:30:13.000 And what I like to do is basically present the evidence and see if whoever then draws the same conclusions from that evidence that I have.

02:30:23.000 Okay, let me put it to you this way.

02:30:26.000 In what we were talking about at the very beginning of this interview, and talking about 7,000 generations of people and the fact that in four or five generations we went from horseback to rocket ships, how many times in the last 7,000 years do you suppose that we could have done that?

02:30:45.000 To me it's not implausible that we could have achieved flight, even interplanetary flight, more than once.

02:30:54.000 Just as we have now.

02:30:55.000 We have achieved interplanetary flight, even though only manned expeditions to nearer space, but we're sending our satellites out beyond the solar system.

02:30:55.000 Because think about it.

02:31:05.000 All of this has come about in my lifetime.

02:31:07.000 Right.

02:31:08.000 Totally in my lifetime.

02:31:09.000 All of it since the 1950s.

02:31:10.000 Yeah.

02:31:10.000 My grandfather, when he was a kid, you know, it was horses.

02:31:14.000 And a big point is that if we died off now, if there's some sort of mass extinction event, there'd be very little evidence of this space travel.

02:31:22.000 Thousands.

02:31:22.000 There'd be no evidence.

02:31:23.000 All the aluminum, all the stuff that the rockets were made out of, it would all be gone.

02:31:27.000 The earth would absorb it.

02:31:29.000 Now let's just consider, as a wild, outrageous working hypothesis, The humans have been able to offload from the planet prior to the modern space age.

02:31:43.000 So at one point in time we went to Mars?

02:31:45.000 There's probably somewhere a little closer than that that would have made sense.

02:31:49.000 Like the moon?

02:31:50.000 Like the moon.

02:31:51.000 Like we've been able to establish a base on the moon?

02:31:54.000 Yeah.

02:31:55.000 Now, this is, like I said, I'm admitting right up front.

02:31:59.000 This is crazy talk.

02:31:59.000 You're a mason?

02:32:00.000 You're a heretic? 0.95

02:32:02.000 What else? 0.96

02:32:02.000 You've done drugs? 0.96

02:32:04.000 Dismiss this, man.

02:32:06.000 This is over.

02:32:08.000 It's time to lock me away.

02:32:11.000 Gag me, muzzle me, and lock me away. 0.99

02:32:13.000 If we consider the fact that our civilization, if all your theories are true, which they most certainly appear to be, our civilization has been rebooted as of 12,000 years ago.

02:32:24.000 Modern civilization emerges somewhere around 7,000 years ago.

02:32:28.000 And 4.6 billion years of life on Earth, or excuse me, of the life of the Earth, the Earth existing, and then life on Earth being in our form...

02:32:38.000 What, a few hundred thousand years, right?

02:32:41.000 And a hundred thousand years is a long time.

02:32:44.000 That's ten.

02:32:46.000 Ten events since the big impact.

02:32:49.000 Ten times.

02:32:50.000 Well, remember the Greenland ice core graph that I showed you.

02:32:53.000 I mean, what you're seeing there is A dozen or more enormous events in the last quarter million years.

02:33:00.000 Again, the oldest human skeleton, modern human skeleton, is now dated to about 180,000 years.

02:33:07.000 How much earlier than that were we?

02:33:09.000 I don't know.

02:33:10.000 But conservatively, we can say 180,000 years.

02:33:13.000 That Greenland ice core graph that I showed you goes back 250. So the Rig Veda stories of the Vamanas and the flying crafts and all that could actually have been based on real live objects, real live spaceships.

02:33:28.000 Read the Sumerian stories.

02:33:30.000 What do they say?

02:33:31.000 In the wake of the flood, it was so disastrous that what did the gods do?

02:33:35.000 They fled the earth and went to space.

02:33:36.000 It says right there in the myth itself.

02:33:40.000 It says they left.

02:33:40.000 They left the earth and went to the heavens because what was going on on the earth was so traumatic it even freaked them out.

02:33:48.000 Read the story.

02:33:49.000 The gods.

02:33:50.000 Enki and Ia and Ninana, Ninurta and the rest of them.

02:33:50.000 The gods.

02:33:54.000 What did you think of Zechariah Sitchin and his fantastical translations of the Sumerian texts?

02:34:02.000 I'm dubious about some of his stuff.

02:34:04.000 Most are, right?

02:34:05.000 Most people who are experts in the Sumerian languages and cuneiform think that he was kind of cuckoo.

02:34:05.000 Yeah.

02:34:11.000 Kind of cuckoo, yeah.

02:34:12.000 Well, but what's fascinating is there's so much that they absolutely understood that's really confusing.

02:34:19.000 Like they understood they had an accurate depiction of our solar system which included Pluto, which included all the planets in all the orbit in the correct, you know, relatively correct sizes on these clay tablets that they made 9,000,

02:34:38.000 7,000, who knows how many thousand years ago.

02:34:42.000 Yeah, I guess I'm, you know, I read some Sitchin stuff years and years ago and at the time took it with a grain of salt and subsequent to that, you know, after I've seen some of the critiques of him, you know, I'm kind of in that category myself of thinking his,

02:34:58.000 you know, some of his translations are dubious.

02:35:01.000 He made some leaps, for sure.

02:35:03.000 But what they did discover, what they have discovered...

02:35:06.000 It's so fascinating to me when you look at the caduceus, which very clearly resembles the double helix of DNA and how it's closely associated with some of these images of larger beings holding little smaller people with tails. 0.97

02:35:21.000 Like, what the fuck is that? 0.88

02:35:23.000 Like, this idea of genetic engineering, of taking lower primates and introducing... 0.99

02:35:29.000 Human or alien DNA into these lower primates to create modern humans? 0.97

02:35:35.000 I don't know what to think about that.

02:35:36.000 It sounds ridiculous, but if we found a planet like let's say we exist in this state right now and And we evolve without getting hit in the head by a big rock from space for another thousand years or another 10,000 years. 0.98

02:35:53.000 Let's get really fucking crazy. 0.99

02:35:55.000 Just imagine how far we could come if we don't blow ourselves up, Yellowstone doesn't explode, we live another 10,000 years and we jet off into the cosmos and find some planet with a bunch of dumb monkeys on it. 0.99

02:36:08.000 You don't think we would splice our DNA into those dumb monkeys just to say, listen, I think you guys could do better. 0.99

02:36:14.000 You could be like us. 0.99

02:36:15.000 We're going to give you a little bump.

02:36:17.000 We know what's coming.

02:36:18.000 If you guys keep going along this way, you could get to where we are in a million plus years.

02:36:23.000 We can give you a little injection.

02:36:25.000 How about a scenario like this?

02:36:25.000 Maybe.

02:36:27.000 Okay. 1.00

02:36:28.000 Well, from our superior perspective, we know that you guys down there are living on a vulnerable planet that's going to have its ass kicked every so often. 0.99

02:36:36.000 Right. 0.96

02:36:36.000 So we're going to do something to accelerate your evolution a bit so that perhaps you can become a little bit more intelligent and figure this out. 0.96

02:36:44.000 We're going to leave some clues behind for you, and then we're going to leave it in your hands to basically redeem the planet.

02:36:54.000 It's amazing how often people just will completely dismiss any ideas like that, but yet...

02:37:01.000 We're very advanced compared to life on Earth, but clearly we're advancing into the solar system at the very least with robots. 0.98

02:37:12.000 We haven't really been doing manned space trips anymore, but we're sending a lot of fucking robots. 0.99

02:37:18.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:37:19.000 We're sending satellites.

02:37:21.000 We're sending all these things to go around other planets and take images.

02:37:25.000 We're sending robots that land on Mars to rove around and take photos and soil samples and send information back through the sky to Earth.

02:37:36.000 That's pretty fantastic stuff.

02:37:39.000 Well, imagine if you tried to describe this to somebody a hundred years ago, they'd go, get out of here.

02:37:45.000 This is outrageous. 0.98

02:37:46.000 I don't even want to hear such ridiculous talk. 0.70

02:37:49.000 But like you just said, considering the pace of change over the last century, you know, given as a century ago, there was no airline industry.

02:37:58.000 Of course, the thing was, if you had the government bureaucracies like you have now back then, Orville and Wilbur would have never been able to test their flights because some government bureaucrat would have been out there saying, you don't have the proper permits to do this.

02:38:12.000 And right now, one of the big obstacles is that we've got these top-heavy political systems that are really, I think, really encumbering the creative process, the evolutionary process.

02:38:24.000 That's why I'm such a big supporter of, basically, freedom.

02:38:29.000 Getting back to the idea of individual liberty, because I think the upside of people being free Yeah, of course there's a cost to freedom, and there's going to be a downside to it.

02:38:39.000 But the upside, I think, again, is so much greater than the downside that lets you do it.

02:38:44.000 Well, that's what the Internet is showing.

02:38:45.000 The Internet represents freedom, the ability to freely distribute information.

02:38:51.000 This show itself would have never existed.

02:38:55.000 This podcast could not have existed without something like the internet.

02:38:58.000 No one would have ever given me a show.

02:39:00.000 No one would ever, like, said, yeah, go talk to this guy from Georgia for three hours about asteroid impacts.

02:39:07.000 People will like it.

02:39:08.000 Get out of here! 1.00

02:39:09.000 Get the fuck out of here! 0.99

02:39:10.000 Actually, I'm from Minnesota. 1.00

02:39:11.000 Well, I mean, you live there.

02:39:12.000 Yeah.

02:39:13.000 You know what I'm saying.

02:39:14.000 Right, right, right.

02:39:14.000 But it's just, the whole idea is...

02:39:16.000 That freedom allows people to innovate at a much quicker pace.

02:39:20.000 It allows negative things too, but so does life itself.

02:39:23.000 There's more of a chance of negative things if things are controlled, if things are locked down.

02:39:32.000 Innovation goes right out.

02:39:35.000 In my own personal sphere, like I'm building a project right now in Atlanta, It took me six months and nine trips down to City Hall to get permission from the bureaucrats to do a small project, which 20 years ago, I could have gotten that permission in an hour or two.

02:39:53.000 20 years before that, I would not have even needed permission from anybody.

02:39:58.000 You know, oh, you've got your own house.

02:39:59.000 You want to do this.

02:40:00.000 Your neighbors don't care. 0.91

02:40:02.000 We'll do it.

02:40:03.000 See?

02:40:03.000 Right.

02:40:04.000 So this is what my experience there.

02:40:07.000 Multiply that by millions across the board.

02:40:09.000 You know, it's like, you know, it's going to get to the point where, you know, can we, do we dare breathe out without a permit because we're exhaling carbon dioxide?

02:40:19.000 You know?

02:40:20.000 Right.

02:40:21.000 So, yeah, I think that a couple of things need to happen.

02:40:25.000 One, we need to really get back to the idea.

02:40:29.000 And America, that's the great dream and vision of America, was that this was supposed to be the home of freedom on planet Earth.

02:40:35.000 Right.

02:40:36.000 Yeah, bureaucracy is pretty disgusting, but it's also I feel like sometimes we need some resistance in order to facilitate action.

02:40:44.000 Some resistance, yeah.

02:40:45.000 Yeah, and some resistance sometimes gives us this real desire to overcome that resistance which makes innovation.

02:40:53.000 Yeah.

02:40:54.000 You know, and that might be one of the things that we're experiencing with this new culture that's emerging from the internet.

02:41:01.000 It's kind of emerging in response to the resistance that we received from, I mean, going back to psychedelics, from the 60s to the 70s, the 70s into the 80s, and then the 90s, the internet emerges.

02:41:12.000 And the internet is causing this big pushback on all the archaic ideas that are being promoted during those dark decades.

02:41:21.000 Yeah.

02:41:23.000 And I totally agree with you.

02:41:25.000 I mean, without some resistance, I mean, after all, I mean, if there's no resistance, you know, we're going to basically turn into slugs.

02:41:30.000 We turn into couch potatoes.

02:41:32.000 We turn to couch potatoes.

02:41:33.000 Right, we're lazy.

02:41:33.000 We're lazy.

02:41:34.000 Yeah, it's very rare that human beings, by default, are ambitious.

02:41:38.000 It's like in response to something.

02:41:41.000 Like, one of the worst things you could do to a kid is give the kid everything they want and not have them work.

02:41:47.000 They never develop any instincts to work towards things.

02:41:51.000 They never develop any instincts to recognize that there's a benefit to struggling and being uncomfortable and that the rewards...

02:42:00.000 When you have a hard day's work and a job completed that you feel satisfied with...

02:42:06.000 Then the beer tastes so much better.

02:42:08.000 So much better.

02:42:09.000 The Jewish Kabbalists have a term for that, which I can't remember, but it translates as the bread of shame.

02:42:14.000 And it's like the bread of shame is the bread you get that you didn't really have to work for, you didn't have to struggle, you didn't have to put forward any effort, it's just given to you.

02:42:24.000 And it's like one of the stories that kind of goes along with presenting that is the man who builds up this great business empire and then he's getting ready to retire and he wants to pass it on to his son and he says,

02:42:41.000 you know, come in I'm going to make you CEO of my business empire and you're going to be able to run the whole thing and the son says, no thanks I don't want it.

02:42:49.000 And he goes, well what do you mean?

02:42:50.000 It says, well, let me start at the bottom and work my way up and earn that position.

02:42:55.000 And it's going to mean a whole lot more to me, and I'm going to be a hell of a lot more effective in that position than if it's just dumped in my lap.

02:43:01.000 It's just so rare that anybody has that mentality, though.

02:43:04.000 Most people would take the easy road every single time.

02:43:07.000 Well, and that is to the consternation, I think, of our ancestors who didn't look at it that way.

02:43:12.000 You know, the people that came across the ocean, you know, at great hardship, didn't look at it that way.

02:43:18.000 And I think that they would be pretty much rolling in their graves if they could see, you know, what's basically, oh, well, we'll just let the government take care of us.

02:43:26.000 Right.

02:43:27.000 I don't have to get a job because the government's going to take care of us. 0.94

02:43:30.000 But they would also look at our computers and go, holy shit, you guys have figured some things out. 0.98

02:43:35.000 Wait a minute. 1.00

02:43:35.000 Goddamn. 1.00

02:43:36.000 You ask a question to your phone and it gives you the answer? 1.00

02:43:36.000 Hold on. 1.00

02:43:39.000 Yeah.

02:43:40.000 I mean, they never even thought about that on Star Trek.

02:43:42.000 Yeah.

02:43:43.000 And see what that does is it shows there's these parallel trends that are happening, you know?

02:43:48.000 So, yeah.

02:43:50.000 That's why I tend to be more optimistic.

02:43:51.000 I'm not a pessimist.

02:43:53.000 I have great hopes for our future.

02:43:55.000 I do too, and people give me a hard time for it sometimes.

02:43:58.000 They think I'm unrealistic, or that's the hippie side of me.

02:44:02.000 They have a hippie ideology as well.

02:44:05.000 The sacred geometry name, why did you choose that as the name for your website?

02:44:11.000 Well because at the time I was looking at there was so much interest and because I saw it as a venue for putting information out there about that and showing some of the amazing correlations and linkages you know between the subject of geometry and so many of these other things like I said you know the Mayan temples Egyptian yeah and helping using that as a key to decipher or decode these messages that have been have been Embodied

02:44:42.000 in architecture.

02:44:43.000 It's the key.

02:44:44.000 It's one of the master keys to decoding the archaic wisdom tradition.

02:44:50.000 There's no question.

02:44:51.000 And geometry pervades everything.

02:44:52.000 I mean, geometry pervades...

02:44:54.000 Actually, I can show you now studies that have shown that the exact architecture of the solar system, if you change it even a little bit, None of this could happen, you know, because as it is now, you have this great reservoir of comets outside the orbit of Neptune called the Kuiper disk,

02:45:10.000 right?

02:45:12.000 At the inside of that, on the inner perimeter of that disk of comets, comets are in a quasi-stable condition.

02:45:20.000 In other words, it doesn't take much to perturb them from that position, but at the same time, there isn't much there to perturb them.

02:45:27.000 So they generally are just slowly orbiting the Sun.

02:45:31.000 Well, what happens is conjunctions of the great outer planets, Uranus and Neptune primarily, the combined gravitational forces exerted on the inner part of the Kuiper disk are enough to dislodge comets and send them either.

02:45:44.000 The gravity effect, think of this, If you've got a gravity effect pulling on something from behind and it's moving this way, it's going to act as a braking mechanism.

02:45:53.000 If it's a head and drawing on it, it's going to act as an accelerating mechanism.

02:45:58.000 So if you accelerate one of these objects, it moves out further from the sun.

02:46:03.000 If you decelerate it, it moves in closer to the sun.

02:46:07.000 What happens is that the conjunctions of the outer planets can move these comets inside, become within the sphere of influence of the planets.

02:46:17.000 And it just so happens, and astrophysicists have worked out the mathematics of it, that the masses and the spacing of the four great outer planets, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune, are exactly what they need to be To transport comets from the Kuiper disk to the inner solar system.

02:46:35.000 And if you change that, even a little bit, you would lose this, they refer to it as the bucket mechanism, or like a bucket handoff.

02:46:46.000 Each planet will hand off the comet to the next one.

02:46:49.000 And then when it gets to Jupiter, the big one, like you said earlier, Jupiter is either going to accelerate it and throw it back out, Or it's going to decelerate it and send it in towards the sun where it becomes an earth crosser where it begins to disaggregate and in the process fertilize the earth with its constituents,

02:47:07.000 which we now know are all kinds of interesting and exotic materials.

02:47:13.000 So, if it turns out, and it almost certainly will, in terms of the panspermia idea, that life was originated onto Earth by comets, that you had to have an environment that was conducive, you had to have this matrix of environmental conditions, that if were altered slightly,

02:47:29.000 would not allow the proliferation of higher life, you now have the introduction of cometary material into that.

02:47:36.000 Well, if the architecture of the outer solar system was not exactly lined up in the geometry that it is, Then, you would never have that delivery of the organics and the volatiles from the comet.

02:47:47.000 In fact, it's likely that the oceans, that the hydrosphere originated from space.

02:47:52.000 Without the oceans, where would life on Earth be, you see?

02:47:56.000 Now, here's where it gets interesting.

02:47:58.000 The architecture of the solar system is what's condensed and embodied within the sacred architecture of old.

02:48:06.000 So they've taken those proportions, however that got there, whether they knew it directly or on some subconscious level, and incorporated that into the designs and the proportions of the ancient sacred structures, it's there.

02:48:20.000 Basically, the model of the Holy City, the New Jerusalem that's described in the Book of Revelations, is basically a model of the solar system architecture.

02:48:30.000 So, it abides by Bode's Law?

02:48:33.000 Is that what it is?

02:48:34.000 Yes.

02:48:35.000 I think it's Bode.

02:48:36.000 I think that's how you say it.

02:48:37.000 B-O-D-E-S? Is that what it is? 0.99

02:48:39.000 No, just B-O-D-E. B-O-D-E? Oh, it's Bode?

02:48:42.000 And I've only seen it written.

02:48:42.000 Yeah.

02:48:44.000 And that law being that the size and mass of a planet allows you to extrapolate and find out how big and far away the next planet would be?

02:48:56.000 Mm-hmm.

02:48:57.000 And so yeah, it shows up that one of the intervals within that sequence is, for example, where the asteroid belt is.

02:49:03.000 There's no planet there, but there's an asteroid belt.

02:49:06.000 And that sort of coincides with the ancient Sumerian myth of the creation of Earth being an impact.

02:49:06.000 Right.

02:49:13.000 And also, Earth-1 and Earth-2, they know that Earth was, at one point in time, different and it was impacted and that's also what created the Moon, right?

02:49:23.000 Yes.

02:49:23.000 Well, that's the theory about the Moon.

02:49:26.000 God, the Moon.

02:49:27.000 I mean, the Moon is really something we could talk about for the next hour and, you know, we can save that for a future broadcast.

02:49:35.000 But the Moon is really one of the grand symbols of the Great Mysteries with a capital M, no question.

02:49:42.000 And it's right there every night.

02:49:43.000 I mean, right now I think we're like one day away from the full moon right now as we're sitting here.

02:49:47.000 And I would highly recommend that anybody listening to this go out and begin contemplating the moon.

02:49:53.000 Unless you're afraid of werewolves.

02:49:54.000 Unless you're afraid of werewolves.

02:49:57.000 Unless you're afraid of becoming transformed into a werewolf.

02:50:01.000 Yeah, so how is Jerusalem designed as a representation of the solar system?

02:50:10.000 Well, the hypothetical Jerusalem, the New Jerusalem. 0.76

02:50:16.000 Well, you know, it describes this layout.

02:50:20.000 It gets complex.

02:50:22.000 And again, when I show this to people, I usually rely on a lot of graphs and images and in reproductions, geometric diagrams and so on.

02:50:31.000 But basically, it's describing the city lieth four square, the length, the height and the breadth of it are equal 12,000 furlongs, and there's a wall great and high 144 cubits, according to the measure of a man that is of the angel.

02:50:43.000 And then it goes on to describe other things.

02:50:45.000 But when you begin to do the analysis of these numbers, you discover it opens up this whole world of numerical symbolism.

02:50:55.000 The 12,000 furlongs, you know how much a furlong is?

02:51:00.000 No.

02:51:00.000 Furlong is one-eighth of a mile.

02:51:02.000 It's a very ancient unit of measurement.

02:51:02.000 It still exists.

02:51:04.000 It still exists.

02:51:05.000 It's used in horse racing.

02:51:06.000 That's the one place that I know of it still exists.

02:51:09.000 One-eighth of a mile.

02:51:10.000 That's 660 feet, right?

02:51:12.000 Now, if you were to take the Earth, right?

02:51:15.000 The Earth, you know, is an oblate spheroid.

02:51:17.000 It spins on its axis, so it bulges towards the equator, shrinks towards the polar axis, so the difference is about 7,900 miles at the polar axis, about 7,926 miles at the equatorial axis.

02:51:30.000 But if you were to take a perfect sphere with the same surface area as the Earth actually has, that sphere would be 7,920 miles in diameter.

02:51:41.000 Now, that number, 7920, is a very interesting number because, for one thing, if we look at a furlong, a furlong is 660 feet.

02:51:53.000 So, I'm putting 660. Why don't you take that calculator there?

02:51:56.000 Okay.

02:51:57.000 Now, that's a furlong, 660 feet.

02:52:01.000 Convert that to inches by going times 12. Times 12. Times 12. Okay.

02:52:06.000 1, 2. Okay.

02:52:07.000 And equals?

02:52:08.000 Equals? 0.97

02:52:09.000 7, 9, 2, 0. There it is.

02:52:13.000 Diameter of the Earth in miles that I just said.

02:52:16.000 Right?

02:52:17.000 The perfect sphere That would have the same surface area and the same volume as the Earth is 7,920 miles.

02:52:17.000 Right.

02:52:25.000 And that's actually the diameter of the Earth.

02:52:28.000 If you took a line from the Tropic of Cancer, 23.5 degrees north, through the Earth to the Tropic of Capricorn, you would discover that that diameter is about 7,920 miles.

02:52:39.000 That's the number which I'm theorizing and I'm thinking with a lot of Evidence to back up that ancient peoples used to symbolize the Earth, 7920. But what you've just seen here is that this ancient unit of measurement called the furlong,

02:52:55.000 which is 660 feet, is to the inch exactly as the Earth is to the mile.

02:53:02.000 Now what was the origin of the mile?

02:53:05.000 Where did this mile?

02:53:06.000 We brought it up earlier.

02:53:08.000 Length of the mile?

02:53:09.000 5,280 feet, right?

02:53:13.000 Think about the Latin word mil.

02:53:15.000 What does that mean?

02:53:16.000 A thousand, right?

02:53:18.000 Like a million is a thousand thousands.

02:53:21.000 A millimeter is one thousandth of a meter, right?

02:53:25.000 Because they're prefixing M-I-L, the mil, the Latin prefix that means a thousand, right?

02:53:31.000 So that's where the actual word mile comes from.

02:53:35.000 So a mile is a thousand what?

02:53:39.000 It's a thousand paces, human paces. 0.93

02:53:42.000 So if you were to go out and walk off a thousand paces, say counting, every time your right foot hit the ground, and you did that a thousand times, you're going to have a mile, more or less, depending on your size.

02:53:55.000 You know, I'm six foot one, so I'm going to have a slightly longer pace than somebody who's five foot five, right?

02:54:02.000 But that's where the origin of the mile comes from, from a thousand paces.

02:54:07.000 And that's standardized, but it's very ancient, see?

02:54:13.000 The outer circle of Stonehenge, the Sarson Stone Circle, if you were to encompass it in a circle that's just tangent to the outer faces of the stone, the radius of that circle has been measured and it's almost exactly 52.8 feet,

02:54:31.000 right?

02:54:32.000 Or one hundredth of a mile.

02:54:35.000 Now, if you take the diameter of Stonehenge, it's double that, which is 105.6 feet.

02:54:42.000 50 times 105.6, there's your mile.

02:54:48.000 It suggests that the mile was being used by those who built Stonehenge 5,000 years ago.

02:54:55.000 But you see this number 5.28 is a universal relationship.

02:55:02.000 For one thing, it says the average human pace Related to the foot, which again, remember Protagoras said, man is the measure of all things, right?

02:55:13.000 Where comes the inch?

02:55:15.000 It's this.

02:55:16.000 Here's the inch right here, the origin of the inch.

02:55:18.000 The distance between your thumb Yeah, or it's...

02:55:21.000 The width of your thumb?

02:55:22.000 It's this.

02:55:22.000 Well, yeah.

02:55:23.000 So you can measure here, and that's going to be an inch.

02:55:26.000 Or you can take this, and that's an inch as well.

02:55:29.000 So, okay.

02:55:30.000 So it's the tip of your thumb to the first joint.

02:55:34.000 That's essentially an inch.

02:55:34.000 Yes.

02:55:35.000 And it depends, because humans vary in size.

02:55:39.000 But the idea here is that the units of ancient measurement derive from one of two sources.

02:55:39.000 Right.

02:55:46.000 From the human yardstick or the earth itself.

02:55:50.000 So now, if you take the average human pace, divide it by the average human foot, it's 5.28.

02:55:58.000 Multiply that by a thousand and you have the mile of 5,280 feet.

02:56:03.000 I'm suggesting that that unit of measurement was actually incorporated into the design of Stonehenge.

02:56:11.000 Now, what we have just seen is that the description of the New Jerusalem in the Book of Revelations describes it as being 12,000 furlongs, which again is an ancient British unit of measurement, but probably used way beyond Britain.

02:56:27.000 and when we look at the ratio of the furlong if we took out in the parking lot here and laid out a furlong 660 feet and then marked off one inch on it That furlong to that inch would be exactly the same as the diameter of the earth to the mile.

02:56:44.000 Now, in the book of Revelations, what it says is that the New Jerusalem is 12,000 of these furlongs.

02:56:52.000 So if you take 660, which I put in there, times 12,000, look at the number that comes up again.

02:57:03.000 There's that number again, 792-0000.

02:57:07.000 But it's been raised by orders of magnitude.

02:57:09.000 Now, divide that by the number of feet in a mile.

02:57:13.000 Put the divide button, divide by 5280, divide by 5280, and there is what they're describing.

02:57:24.000 A body that's 1500 miles in diameter, right?

02:57:29.000 So what is that?

02:57:30.000 What is 1500 miles in diameter?

02:57:32.000 That's the mystery.

02:57:33.000 Now, if you take that number, and I'm going to go to the earth itself, 7920, and divide it by the New Jerusalem, divide by 1500, there's the ratio we get. 0.61

02:57:50.000 The human pace to the human foot.

02:57:52.000 Whoa! 0.71

02:57:54.000 Coincidence?

02:57:55.000 Or are we beginning to see that there's an underlying pattern?

02:57:59.000 528. Yeah, 528. So the ratio is there, right?

02:58:03.000 I'm not making any of this up.

02:58:05.000 So you either dismiss it as coincidence or you go, okay, there's an underlying pattern here.

02:58:11.000 And it's got some meaning to it.

02:58:13.000 Now, I think it's going to be beyond our ability today to really get into that.

02:58:18.000 But this is the kind of thing, when you begin to peel back these layers, you begin to discover that there are these ratios built into this.

02:58:24.000 So it's some, in a sense, fractal.

02:58:27.000 It's fractal, yes.

02:58:29.000 Wow.

02:58:30.000 And the idea here, just like Protagoras said, that we, humans, we're the measure of all things.

02:58:37.000 And all of these cosmic dimensions are miniaturized and encoded in our very anatomy.

02:58:44.000 Randall Carlson, we have run out of time, but you have blown minds on multiple fronts once again.

02:58:49.000 Man, we've got to do another one.

02:58:53.000 When's the next time?

02:58:54.000 You tell me.

02:58:56.000 When's good?

02:58:57.000 Well, give me a few months to recover from this one.

02:59:01.000 Okay, you tell me.

02:59:02.000 I'm going to bed for a week now.

02:59:05.000 Yeah, I'm sure.

02:59:06.000 It's quite a burst of information.

02:59:08.000 Thank you, sir.

02:59:09.000 Really, really appreciate it.

02:59:10.000 It's always a pleasure having you here.

02:59:12.000 You're one of my favorite podcast guests, without a doubt.

02:59:14.000 Thanks, Joe.

02:59:14.000 I enjoy it so much.

02:59:15.000 And I'm going to go over this podcast with a fine-tooth comb and try to figure it out.

02:59:19.000 I want to say one more quick thing.

02:59:20.000 A lot of this information that I've been talking about here is on our DVD. That you can get online, Cosmic Patterns and Cycles of Catastrophe, where you get all of the images and a lot of the background and the stuff that we went into.

02:59:34.000 So if you go to the Sacred Geometry International website, you'll be able to find a link and find out all about it.

02:59:40.000 What is the exact website?

02:59:43.000 SacredGeometryInternational.com, I guess.

02:59:45.000 So if you just put Sacred Geometry International in the search engine, it'll be the first thing that comes up in your Google.

02:59:50.000 And your Twitter handle is sacredgeometryint, correct?

02:59:55.000 Uh, yeah.

02:59:56.000 Right?

02:59:57.000 Yeah.

02:59:57.000 Is it right?

02:59:58.000 Hold on a second.

02:59:58.000 I'll check it on the profile real quick.

03:00:00.000 Sacred, yeah, sacredgeoint.

03:00:04.000 Okay, yeah.

03:00:05.000 So sacredgeo, at sacredgeoint.

03:00:08.000 Thank you, my friend.

03:00:09.000 It's a massive honor and a privilege and a pleasure, and I appreciate this so much.

03:00:15.000 Thank you so much.

03:00:15.000 Well, I appreciate you having me, Joe.

03:00:17.000 Listen, man, you're changing the world.

03:00:18.000 You're changing the world.

03:00:19.000 Believe me, you're freaking people the fuck out.

03:00:21.000 Well, you're helping me, Joe.

03:00:23.000 You're helping me.

03:00:24.000 Randall Carlson, ladies and gentlemen, he will be back in a few months.

03:00:27.000 We'll let him recover.

03:00:28.000 We'll send him some vitamin C, send him some Onnit supplies.

03:00:31.000 We'll get him back out here.

03:00:32.000 Thank you, brother.

03:00:33.000 I really appreciate it.

03:00:51.000 I don't drink much coffee.

03:00:53.000 Oh, yeah, well, if you don't drink much coffee, that stuff will...

The Joe Rogan Experience - February 02, 2015

Joe Rogan Experience #606 - Randall Carlson

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