The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #616 - John Wayne Parr

00:00:13.000 Yes, ladies and gentlemen. 0.99

00:00:15.000 Yeah, my phone shit the bed, officially. 0.98

00:00:18.000 iPhone 6, done. 0.92

00:00:19.000 I think I dropped it too many times.

00:00:21.000 Or it got scared when it saw John Wayne Parr.

00:00:24.000 My phone decided to just...

00:00:26.000 Give up.

00:00:26.000 What's happening, man?

00:00:27.000 Welcome back, my friend.

00:00:29.000 It was very fun working out with you today.

00:00:31.000 That was very enjoyable.

00:00:32.000 John Wayne Parr, for those who don't know, multiple time Muay Thai champion, very famous in the world of combat sports, both for your accomplishments in Muay Thai.

00:00:41.000 And a lot of people in the UFC know about you for your work with George St. Pierre.

00:00:46.000 You did a lot of training with George St. For some of his MMA fights and got to show him some of your Muay Thai techniques, which I really learned a lot today watching you explain how you do things.

00:00:58.000 You have a very specific style that is very uniquely your own.

00:01:03.000 Yeah, I was lucky enough to go to Thailand to live for four years.

00:01:06.000 So I took the Thai concept and then I retired from Muay Thai and went to boxing for a year.

00:01:11.000 And then I just concentrated on my hands and then I liked boxing but then it sort of got a bit stale because the crowd's a little bit older and the Muay Thai crowd really pumps you up so I decided to come back to Muay Thai again and I sort of blended the two together with the top half of the boxing and the bottom half of the Muay Thai.

00:01:26.000 And then I just sort of created my own concept, and yeah, it's been very cool.

00:01:32.000 I've been very successful with it.

00:01:33.000 It seems like you also, like we were talking today, you incorporated a lot of the way Ramon Deckers used to throw combinations, who was a Dutch guy who became probably one of the most famous ever foreigners to fight in Thailand, one of the most successful in the lower weight classes especially.

00:01:47.000 Yeah, he was a beast.

00:01:49.000 And then because he was the first white person to beat the Thais, he was such a role model and I wanted to follow in his footsteps. 0.98

00:01:55.000 Still to this day, I still try and emulate everything that he's done.

00:02:00.000 And just to be that guy that went to Thailand and beat the Thais at the Marine Sport, it's something that I look up to him even though he's passed.

00:02:11.000 He's still my hero.

00:02:13.000 In the world of Muay Thai and the world of fighting, there's guys who have gigantic names.

00:02:19.000 If you were thinking about a sport like hockey, it would be like a Wayne Gretzky or like a Bobby Orr.

00:02:25.000 That's where Ramon Deckers was.

00:02:28.000 Most casual people, casual fans, they're not aware of some of the greats in this sport.

00:02:33.000 It's really unfortunate.

00:02:34.000 It's because America, like, kickboxing, for whatever reason, never really caught on.

00:02:40.000 And Dana White has a really good theory.

00:02:42.000 And he thinks it's because that in, like, the 1980s and the early 19...

00:02:47.000 I guess it wasn't even the 90s, like, mostly the 80s, they had that PKA kickboxing on TV. Which is where Rick Rufus came from, who turned out to be a great fighter.

00:02:57.000 But a lot of those guys were sloppy boxers who had to throw a certain amount of kicks per round.

00:03:02.000 They would make you throw six, seven kicks per round.

00:03:05.000 I forget what the number was.

00:03:06.000 And so they would throw these little flippy kicks with no power, and then they would just kind of sloppy box.

00:03:10.000 Yeah, Benny the Jet and Peter Cunningham.

00:03:13.000 Who else?

00:03:14.000 Well, Peter Sugarfoot Cunningham, he became successful outside of PKA. He did Muay Thai.

00:03:19.000 He fought a lot of different styles.

00:03:21.000 He was a more complete fighter.

00:03:22.000 I think there was a lot of fights that, like, they had on ESPN at 2 o'clock in the morning.

00:03:27.000 You watch these two white dudes kickboxing. 0.99

00:03:29.000 You're like, what the fuck am I watching? 0.99

00:03:30.000 It just wasn't at the level that... 0.98

00:03:33.000 It's unfortunate that some people still have that in their mind when it comes to kickboxing or to Muay Thai because...

00:03:41.000 In other countries, especially in Holland.

00:03:44.000 You were one of the guys who carried it over to Australia at a very young age.

00:03:48.000 It's very popular over there.

00:03:50.000 Yeah, like in Australia, Fox Sports, we were showing the fights at least once a week.

00:03:55.000 That was from 1996 up until last year.

00:04:00.000 Then they've just stopped showing the broadcast now, and now UFC's flooded the market.

00:04:04.000 There's no exposure for the kickboxes anymore. 1.00

00:04:06.000 It's hard for us to shine now.

00:04:08.000 Really?

00:04:08.000 Because of MMA? Yeah, well, UFCs, they're doing the pay-per-views, and they're doing the roads to the UFC, and they're showing all the replays.

00:04:17.000 So every time you put the Fox Sports on, it's just saturated the market, and there's no real...

00:04:21.000 If I was a young fighter now, and they said, what would you want to do?

00:04:25.000 Do you want a kickboxer and UFC? It's like, UFC for sure, because look at the superstars.

00:04:29.000 Whereas Muay Thai, there's...

00:04:31.000 There's no elite sort of place to go anymore.

00:04:36.000 The K1's dead.

00:04:37.000 Before it was K1, the K1 was the dream.

00:04:39.000 Right.

00:04:40.000 And now that's disappeared.

00:04:41.000 Well, there's glory.

00:04:43.000 Glory's amazing, but it's not what K1 was, if that makes sense.

00:04:46.000 Not yet, no.

00:04:47.000 And still, look at UFC. You look at the George St. Pierre's and the John Jones' lifestyles.

00:04:52.000 It's like, holy shit, that's a different league. 0.99

00:04:55.000 That's pretty cool. 0.99

00:04:57.000 Yeah, well, the world champions, that level is very different.

00:05:01.000 The Anderson Silvers, and they're rocking the sports cars, and they're amazing.

00:05:06.000 Well, you could look at it that way.

00:05:07.000 Yeah, I guess so.

00:05:09.000 I think that technique-wise, the kickboxing world is at a very high level, though.

00:05:16.000 With the Muay Thai world, very, very high level.

00:05:16.000 Yes.

00:05:19.000 Which is what was missing, like, when they were putting it on ESPN, which is too bad.

00:05:19.000 Yes.

00:05:23.000 It's because it's like the...

00:05:24.000 If you watch Glory, like, the level of fighter is there.

00:05:28.000 It's a very high level of fighter, you know, but it's just...

00:05:31.000 People are just not aware of it yet.

00:05:32.000 Yeah, we need the media exposure.

00:05:34.000 Let's say...

00:05:35.000 For the Joe Shillings, for example, we need to go to his house and see what he is like a person instead of just seeing the bell ring, have his fight, put his hand up, and then he disappears.

00:05:47.000 Whereas the UFC, I know everything about George St. Pierre without even meeting him.

00:05:51.000 I know everything about John Jones without meeting him.

00:05:53.000 I know everyone.

00:05:54.000 And then when they fight, I feel I have that emotional connection.

00:05:57.000 And I really want to cheer for that guy because I feel like I'm emotionally involved.

00:06:03.000 Whereas the Glory guy is like, I can't tell you who's who and how many daughters he has or what kind of pets he has at home. 0.73

00:06:11.000 One of the things that I really love about just striking, I'm obviously a big fan of the MMA, but when you've got to think about takedowns and when you have to think about submissions and There's so many different things that a fighter has to consider.

00:06:25.000 They're not as open with their striking.

00:06:28.000 They don't have as many moments to just freely exchange without worried about being taken down.

00:06:35.000 When you watch real high-level Muay Thai, real high-level kickboxing, you get to see this next-level fluidity and this next-level technique.

00:06:46.000 You see it in boxing as well.

00:06:49.000 I've had conversations with people that say boxing is better.

00:06:52.000 You never see people land those combinations in the UFC. And I'm like, well, it's because they're going to take you down.

00:06:57.000 You can't stand sideways with your shoulders like that against a really good wrestler because they're just going to shoot in and take you down.

00:07:04.000 That style against someone, if you make that agreement, like it's only going to be stand-up, it's only going to be hands, you get to see the really high-level, the Manny Pacquiao's, the Floyd Mayweather's, you get to see this just next-level technique.

00:07:17.000 And I feel the same way with kickboxing.

00:07:20.000 I feel like with Muay Thai and with kickboxing, you don't get to see the real high-level stuff unless it's just two straight, pure strikers in a Muay Thai match.

00:07:29.000 When I got the opportunity to work with George, for instance, the first time that we sparred, I think George is so used to throwing one-twos, one-two-threes, and then I was literally chasing him from one side of the cage to the other, doing a U-turn and then going straight back at him again.

00:07:43.000 And then after the spar, he told me, it felt like I was sparring four guys at once because it was just relentless.

00:07:48.000 That's what I felt like today!

00:07:50.000 We were playing around today.

00:07:52.000 There was no pause.

00:07:53.000 There was just continuous.

00:07:54.000 Because there's no fear of being taken down.

00:07:56.000 So I can stand in the pocket and just keep punching and punching and punching and punching.

00:08:01.000 I've always equated it to like a conversation.

00:08:04.000 Like if you have a very crude grasp of the language and you try to have a conversation with someone, it can be very frustrating because you're searching for the words.

00:08:11.000 You don't know exactly what to say.

00:08:13.000 You're trying to figure out what that person's saying.

00:08:16.000 But if you're like you or me who speak English very fluently, you and I could have a conversation.

00:08:21.000 We could be rattling back and forth.

00:08:22.000 Well, you're that way with striking.

00:08:24.000 You could tell like striking is like a part of your body's language.

00:08:28.000 So it's so normal to you.

00:08:30.000 You're so used to it that the combinations just flow like water.

00:08:34.000 Whereas, like, you were trying to teach me some things today about the really unique style that you have of, like, when you were trying to teach me that crazy power jab and then the setups to those knees.

00:08:45.000 Like, you have a very specific way of moving that I was trying to emulate.

00:08:48.000 But to you...

00:08:49.000 This is ingrained in your nervous system.

00:08:51.000 For you, it just flows out of you, you know?

00:08:53.000 Yeah, I've spent my lifetime...

00:08:55.000 That's why I can't go to MMA, because I've spent my whole life learning stand-up, and I'm in fear that I have to spend another lifetime on my back if I want to reach the same sort of level.

00:09:05.000 And I wouldn't do it unless I had that perfection on the floor, too.

00:09:09.000 It's 10 years.

00:09:09.000 So, yeah.

00:09:10.000 At least...

00:09:11.000 Yeah, 10 years of jiu-jitsu.

00:09:12.000 I've invested 20-25 years of stand-up striking alone and I don't have any other hobbies.

00:09:20.000 This is my life.

00:09:20.000 All I do is go to the gym and come home and then what do you do for fun?

00:09:23.000 Well, that is my fun.

00:09:25.000 I don't have to do anything else.

00:09:26.000 I don't surf, I don't ride motorbikes, I don't do anything besides watch UFC and train myself.

00:09:32.000 It's my life and I love it and I wouldn't change it for nothing either.

00:09:35.000 Do you have any desire to train Jiu Jitsu just for fun?

00:09:38.000 Just for a goof? 0.84

00:09:40.000 No.

00:09:41.000 That's why I come up with the cage Muay Thai idea. 0.98

00:09:43.000 Because I want to fight in the cage and I want to experience the little gloves.

00:09:46.000 But I didn't want to learn the ground because as much as I respect it, I'm not good at it.

00:09:53.000 And I want to be at a high level.

00:09:55.000 So we do promotions in Australia already between me and my wife. 0.98

00:09:58.000 I said, well, instead of hiring a ring, why don't we just hire a cage?

00:10:02.000 So I studied a little bit on the YouTube, and I'd seen it done before, and they wore boxing gloves.

00:10:07.000 And I thought, well, how am I going to get the respect from the MMA crowd if I wear boxing gloves, and they wear little gloves? 0.99

00:10:12.000 I'm going to look like a pussy. 0.98

00:10:14.000 So I thought, well, if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it properly and I'm going to wear the MMA gloves just to show that I'm just as a warrior as the MMA guys are. 0.99

00:10:22.000 So, so far, we've done five shows and it's amazing.

00:10:27.000 That's interesting that you say that because I can't imagine you would have to feel like you, at this stage of your life, with all your accomplishments, that you still feel like you have to prove yourself.

00:10:36.000 Oh, every time.

00:10:37.000 I still don't believe I'm there yet.

00:10:40.000 That's hilarious.

00:10:42.000 That's actually hilarious.

00:10:44.000 I mean, do you ever look at your own resume?

00:10:48.000 Want to pull it up real quick?

00:10:49.000 Let's pull it up real quick.

00:10:50.000 I'll just let you know what you've done, just so you feel better.

00:10:54.000 I'm quite content where I'm at, but it always feels like I want to be more famous, if that's a word.

00:11:00.000 Yeah, no.

00:11:01.000 Well, it definitely makes sense.

00:11:03.000 I get that.

00:11:05.000 I mean, all high-level athletes will tell you that.

00:11:07.000 They're never satisfied.

00:11:08.000 And I guess when you see guys fighting with striking with little gloves and you see that you're using the larger gloves, maybe that just makes you feel like you have to show that you're capable of doing that as well.

00:11:21.000 Yeah, I have the highest...

00:11:22.000 Because, like I said before, every weekend I'm investing in the pay-per-view on UFC. I'm watching the reruns.

00:11:28.000 I can tell you...

00:11:30.000 Like last night for instance, who was fighting two years ago?

00:11:33.000 Who won that fight out of such and such? 0.83

00:11:35.000 I'm so involved.

00:11:38.000 It's sort of taken over my life, the UFC. Even though I'm a Muay Thai guy, the UFC is sort of such a big part of me now.

00:11:45.000 Yeah, it's hard to explain.

00:11:47.000 When you read off your titles, it's almost ridiculous. 0.69

00:11:50.000 This is hilarious.

00:11:52.000 WKA world middleweight title.

00:11:54.000 WKBF K1 middleweight world champion.

00:11:56.000 WKA Thai boxing world middleweight championship.

00:11:59.000 WKN Thai boxing world super welterweight champion.

00:12:02.000 International kickboxing magazine champion.

00:12:04.000 WMC contender Asia runner-up.

00:12:06.000 WMC Thai boxing middleweight world champion.

00:12:09.000 This is hilarious.

00:12:09.000 K1 math.

00:12:10.000 K1 Max, World Final 8, WKBA, K1 World Welterweight Champion, K1 World Max, World Final 8, Thai Boxing World Middleweight Tournament Champion.

00:12:20.000 It just goes on and on and on.

00:12:22.000 Australian Boxing Middleweight Champion, King's Cup Tournament Champion.

00:12:24.000 It's like over and over and over and over and over the fact that after all these accomplishments, You still feel like you have to prove yourself.

00:12:32.000 Yeah.

00:12:34.000 Like I said, with the UFC, I see the Georges and the Jon Joneses and it's like, why can't I be that guy?

00:12:40.000 I want to be that guy.

00:12:42.000 You mean that guy, meaning getting the respect or getting the adulation or getting the focus on you that these guys are getting?

00:12:49.000 Yeah, that's what I appreciate.

00:12:50.000 It's it's crazy because if you watch it I've always said this it's not like the product isn't there I'll give you watch high-level Muay Thai and I watched a lot of your fights last night after we did the podcast together I went back and this morning I watched the documentary on your life, which was amazing and I watched some of your fights and You know,

00:13:10.000 the product is there.

00:13:12.000 That's what's crazy.

00:13:13.000 It's like, it's a dynamic, exciting product.

00:13:15.000 I'm a boxing fan, but if you give me a chance between watching, a choice rather, between watching high-level boxing and watching high-level Muay Thai, I'll take high-level Muay Thai all the time, because the possibilities are more.

00:13:27.000 The knees, the elbows, the high kicks, the leg kicks, all those things together, it's more dynamic.

00:13:32.000 There's more things going on.

00:13:35.000 There's no reason why people shouldn't know about who you are.

00:13:39.000 I mean, it's weird.

00:13:41.000 It's weird.

00:13:42.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:13:43.000 My popularity on the social media didn't explode until I started training George.

00:13:47.000 And then everyone started, oh, hang on a second, who's this bloke?

00:13:50.000 Why is he teaching George?

00:13:51.000 And then from there, it started to open up avenues.

00:13:55.000 But before that, I was just, yeah, I don't know.

00:14:00.000 The exposure's not there, I guess.

00:14:01.000 There's no opportunities there.

00:14:03.000 It's exactly where the UFC was at one point in time.

00:14:06.000 There was a time in the 90s when the UFC was banned from cable, when the UFC was only, you could only get it on direct TV. And fucking nobody knew who it was. 0.88

00:14:17.000 I mean, I was on news radio, which was a sitcom in America, and I was starting to do the interviews, the post-fight interviews. 0.99

00:14:24.000 I would tell them that I would do it and people would look at me like I'm ruining my life by being involved in this nefarious Adventure to go and watch people fight in a cage like I was gonna go watch Lions fight to the death or something.

00:14:36.000 It was just it was weird It was like like you were talking about porn or even worse than porn.

00:14:41.000 It was like animal porn or something It was strange, but now it's a normal like you tell people the UFC Oh, I've seen that even if the casual person is aware of it's it's Gotten into the public's eye enough where the casual person is, you know,

00:14:56.000 it's a part of the zeitgeist.

00:14:58.000 Muay Thai's not. 1.00

00:14:59.000 I had the opportunity to fight in Thailand, and it was an eight-man tournament.

00:15:04.000 I had to fight three times in two hours, and it was live on Thai TV, and it smashes build up, and I fought three times, and I beat the Russian, the French, I beat a Thai in the final.

00:15:16.000 I won a world title, a million baht, which is about 35,000, and I won a trophy from the Prime Minister of Thailand.

00:15:23.000 I got back to Australia, and I rang the Brisbane newspaper.

00:15:27.000 There's a big newspaper in Brisbane.

00:15:29.000 And then they've come around, and then I said, I've just won this.

00:15:32.000 I've won this trophy from the Prime Minister.

00:15:34.000 And the lady on the other end said, well, it sounds like you're exaggerating all this.

00:15:39.000 Why don't you just try your local newspaper?

00:15:40.000 And hung up on me before I even got a chance to say goodbye.

00:15:43.000 She was like, we only deal in football and cricket here in Australia, because it's not a mainstream sport.

00:15:50.000 Yeah, just try your local paper.

00:15:51.000 Hopefully they'll do something for you.

00:15:52.000 That's hilarious that cricket is a mainstream sport, but Muay Thai is not.

00:15:56.000 Welcome to Australia. 1.00

00:15:57.000 I don't mean to be rude if you're a cricket fan, because I like a lot of stupid shit. 0.99

00:16:02.000 I'm a big fan of professional pool. 1.00

00:16:02.000 I'm aware. 1.00

00:16:05.000 I like watching billiards.

00:16:06.000 You know, people go, you really, you know, you're not even playing it, you watch it?

00:16:10.000 Yes.

00:16:11.000 Yes. 1.00

00:16:11.000 I watch stupid shit, but cricket. 1.00

00:16:13.000 Australia, we play India probably once a week, every week, and it makes the back page, the front page, the 6 to 30 news. 1.00

00:16:21.000 It's the main story every single day.

00:16:23.000 Such and such is the bowler.

00:16:25.000 Michael Clarke's got a sore leg.

00:16:27.000 And then, oh, let's interview Michael Clarke.

00:16:29.000 Oh, let's interview the NFL. And then one game lasts four days.

00:16:35.000 A cricket game lasts four days?

00:16:37.000 How many hours do they play for?

00:16:39.000 All day.

00:16:41.000 They rock up in the morning and they go and if they're not out they just keep going and going and going.

00:16:47.000 It's tedious.

00:16:49.000 What?

00:16:50.000 You know what?

00:16:51.000 I know how to fix it.

00:16:52.000 Incorporate Muay Thai and cricket. 0.74

00:16:55.000 So, like, if you strike out, you just fucking duke it out. 1.00

00:16:59.000 Take off that stupid fencing helmet you wear. 1.00

00:17:02.000 I don't get it. 1.00

00:17:04.000 Well, so is baseball. 0.91

00:17:05.000 Baseball's kind of silly, too, and it's our national pastime. 0.99

00:17:07.000 But when you start using that paddle, you know, like that fucking boat oar that they smack that ball with, I just... 0.99

00:17:14.000 I don't know. 0.98

00:17:15.000 But then the guys in the suits, the politicians in Australia too, the cage is still illegal in Melbourne.

00:17:15.000 I don't get it.

00:17:21.000 They've just banned it in Perth in Western Australia.

00:17:24.000 They just banned it now?

00:17:25.000 Yeah, about a year ago.

00:17:26.000 It was okay, and then they've just come around and they've banned it.

00:17:29.000 I have a cage in my gym, and it's like, just step into a cage to realize how safe and protected it is compared to a ring.

00:17:36.000 Once you step into it and appreciate what it is for what it is, You'll understand that it's so much better than falling out of a ring that's a meter and a half high.

00:17:45.000 Yeah, the ring is not the best for MMA, for sure.

00:17:48.000 But I think for striking, it's good.

00:17:50.000 Even in Muay Thai.

00:17:50.000 Muay Thai, I think so, as well?

00:17:52.000 Because of the clinching and the throws and all that stuff?

00:17:54.000 I've seen more people fall out of a ring than a...

00:17:56.000 Well, never at a cage, of course.

00:17:58.000 But yeah, there's guys falling out all the time.

00:18:00.000 Well, Dylan, last time you were here...

00:18:02.000 He's not on camera right now.

00:18:03.000 Hey, Dylan.

00:18:04.000 What's up, buddy?

00:18:06.000 I don't know if he'll turn that on.

00:18:08.000 Dylan Reznikoff.

00:18:09.000 I said that right, right?

00:18:10.000 That's right.

00:18:10.000 I said it right?

00:18:11.000 He's here with his brother Liam a while back, what was it, like a year ago?

00:18:14.000 Yeah, about a year ago now.

00:18:14.000 You guys are here about a year ago?

00:18:15.000 About a year ago?

00:18:16.000 You guys showed a video of this dude who, he was like running and attacking and he went flying out of the ring, right?

00:18:25.000 Denver's Rainbow.

00:18:26.000 Was it?

00:18:26.000 Yeah, at Lumpini.

00:18:28.000 It was you guys that showed that video, right?

00:18:30.000 Wasn't it?

00:18:31.000 Maybe.

00:18:31.000 So as he's fallen out of the ring, he puts his hands out, the brace he's for, he puts a hand on a chair, and each hand, the chair's split, and it falls straight on his neck.

00:18:44.000 I think he was in a coma for like a month or two.

00:18:47.000 Because he fell from about two metres high.

00:18:49.000 He fell over the top rope, so incorporate that from the ring to the concrete floor.

00:18:54.000 Do you remember back in the day, they used to run events because the cage was banned in New South Wales.

00:18:59.000 Oh, you're in Queensland, sorry. 0.86

00:19:01.000 And I think it was Tony Bonello's show.

00:19:04.000 And then they used to have not had a cage.

00:19:06.000 So what they did is they had the platform and they had all the big boys like Tama Tahuna and Jamie Tahuna and all those boys standing around with the kick shields.

00:19:13.000 Oh, the catch guys.

00:19:15.000 Yeah, and guys were getting like dropped and the heads were hit in the side and it was massive.

00:19:19.000 Madness.

00:19:19.000 In pride.

00:19:20.000 They used to physically push guys back in.

00:19:24.000 And I think it was Paul Ophelio once caught some guy in a triangle through the ropes.

00:19:33.000 The guy was somehow or another trapped in the rope.

00:19:37.000 There was a limb out of the rope and a limb in the rope.

00:19:39.000 So the rope of the triangle was involved in the triangle.

00:19:43.000 I mean, the rope of the ring, rather, was involved in him securing the triangle.

00:19:47.000 It was like, the guy was, like, tangled in it.

00:19:49.000 Like, that's not good.

00:19:51.000 That stop, start, stop, start, drag you back in the center, and hang on, your arm was here, this is, and go. 0.95

00:19:56.000 I've been talking about this for a while, that if they can have a big room for basketball, a big flat surface, why can't they have a big flat surface for fighting, where everyone can see what the fuck's going on?

00:20:08.000 Because you don't see what's going on a lot of times with the cage, even me.

00:20:12.000 Like, I'm right there when I'm calling UFC fights, but sometimes a post is in the way, or it's around, they're like sideways, like I have to lean up to try to see, because it's kind of like I'm looking sideways through the cage.

00:20:24.000 I think that a flat surface would eliminate a lot of the stalling and a lot of the pressing, the clenching up against the cage.

00:20:32.000 Clenching in the center is a totally different animal than when you're leaning on someone, pressing someone against the cage.

00:20:39.000 It takes out a large factor.

00:20:43.000 What do you think about that?

00:20:43.000 Yep.

00:20:44.000 Do you think that's possible?

00:20:45.000 I reckon that's fantastic.

00:20:46.000 You wouldn't be able to cage walk either with your shoulders in the center of your head.

00:20:50.000 You get taken down.

00:20:50.000 Yeah.

00:20:50.000 You've got to fight for it.

00:20:51.000 You've got to actually fight for it.

00:20:52.000 Or learn how to fight off your back.

00:20:54.000 It'd be hard.

00:20:54.000 Yeah.

00:20:55.000 I mean, there's guys that are really dangerous.

00:20:56.000 Like, Charles Oliveira is one of the best in the UFC at fighting off his back.

00:20:59.000 You saw his last fight with Jeremy Stevens.

00:21:01.000 I don't know if you're aware of him, but he's got a vicious guard.

00:21:04.000 His guard is attacking all the time. 0.99

00:21:05.000 So when you take that guy down, it's no fucking picnic. 0.97

00:21:08.000 You know, he's constantly threatening your arm, your neck. 0.96

00:21:11.000 And those guys are gonna excel in a world where you can't just, you know, you can't just hold a guy against a cage, or if you take a guy down, he can't just wall walk.

00:21:21.000 A guy's gonna have to fight off of his back.

00:21:22.000 I feel like that's more honest, you know?

00:21:26.000 I mean, the cage is a real element of MMA, and guys train for it, and therefore you should be able to utilize it.

00:21:31.000 If you're a professional, you should understand it.

00:21:33.000 But it also puts a weird taste in people's mouths, like, oh, they're fighting in cages.

00:21:38.000 They're animals.

00:21:39.000 It's awesome.

00:21:40.000 You like it?

00:21:40.000 I love it.

00:21:41.000 I love it. 1.00

00:21:42.000 You're a madman. 0.77

00:21:43.000 Even for what we do with the CMT, the cage stuff, as soon as they close the door, it just seems like it's you and your opponent and the black of the fence just makes it like a black wall so you can't see the crowd, you can't see the judges, and then it just feels like the arena. 0.99

00:21:59.000 It's just you and him.

00:22:01.000 Yeah, that is cool.

00:22:02.000 That aspect of it, too.

00:22:04.000 But I just feel like visually, as far as being able to see, it's not the best.

00:22:10.000 Ring is better to see, right?

00:22:11.000 120 fights, or 115 fights in a ring, and then in the cage, it just feels like it's all new again.

00:22:19.000 It's all fresh.

00:22:19.000 It's all exciting.

00:22:20.000 That's interesting.

00:22:21.000 That's why I love it.

00:22:22.000 So just changing the environment made it all totally different for you.

00:22:27.000 And a little girl.

00:22:28.000 Little gloves.

00:22:29.000 Little gloves make it more real.

00:22:31.000 Did you ever do kickboxing where there's no elbows like glory style, no elbows, no knees, no clinch?

00:22:36.000 I fought K1 for a couple years in Japan and then when I first started out was an amateur of course and I just started babies and baby steps.

00:22:44.000 I did the eight count rule back in the day.

00:22:47.000 We had to do eight kicks above the waist.

00:22:48.000 Oh, the PKA stuff?

00:22:50.000 PKA, we did that in Australia.

00:22:51.000 You did that with no leg kicks?

00:22:52.000 Only once.

00:22:54.000 There was leg kicks involved, but the leg kicks didn't score.

00:22:56.000 They had to be above the waist to get the count.

00:23:00.000 Oh really?

00:23:00.000 They didn't want boxing to...

00:23:01.000 There were so many guys that were doing karate that changed over the kickboxing, boxing that changed over the kickboxing, so they wanted to eliminate the hands and make more guys kick more.

00:23:09.000 So it had to be at least eight kicks above the waist. 0.97

00:23:12.000 But you still have a leg kick.

00:23:13.000 That's interesting.

00:23:15.000 So you could still debilitate a guy and it wouldn't count point-wise?

00:23:18.000 Yes.

00:23:18.000 That's kind of crazy.

00:23:20.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:23:20.000 Yeah, Australia.

00:23:21.000 So, what is the rule of glory?

00:23:24.000 Like, they let you throw knees, but you can't clinch when you throw a knee?

00:23:27.000 K1 had it for you, you could only clinch with one hand for a while.

00:23:29.000 Yeah, 2004, as long as you were busy in the clinch, they'd let it go.

00:23:33.000 And then Borkow came along and just dominated everybody.

00:23:35.000 He was throwing them around like ragdolls. 1.00

00:23:38.000 He busted up Masato.

00:23:40.000 Yeah, I remember Masato.

00:23:42.000 And then, so the very next year, they said, okay, we've got a new rule, one hand, one knee, and then that gives the guys that are proper, more boxing-orientated, an opportunity to fight guys like Borcal, where they had no chance before. 0.91

00:23:55.000 Well, Alistair Overeem, too, used to just clinch guys with those gigantic fucking tree-trunk arms. 0.93

00:24:00.000 Just hold on to your neck, and you're Dunsville. 0.99

00:24:02.000 You just blast those knees into you. 1.00

00:24:04.000 You ever seen that fight that he fought, I forget who it was, Teixeira, where he hit him, he clenched with both hands behind the neck and hit him with a knee and it looked like he got shot, like someone hit him with a sniper bullet.

00:24:04.000 Yeah.

00:24:18.000 Boom! 0.99

00:24:18.000 He just goes down. 0.99

00:24:20.000 That clinch, though, is such an effective weapon.

00:24:23.000 It doesn't make any sense to me to eliminate that. 0.98

00:24:26.000 When I see it being eliminated in kickboxing or making guys use one hand or something like that, it's so foolish. 0.92

00:24:34.000 It doesn't make any sense to me.

00:24:35.000 It's like you're eliminating a really exciting aspect and a crucial aspect of the art of Muay Thai.

00:24:41.000 Yeah, the Thais are so... 1.00

00:24:50.000 We're good to go.

00:25:06.000 That's funny.

00:25:07.000 That's why I limit it, because the Westerners aren't very good at the tires. 1.00

00:25:11.000 They get airborne as they're throwing knee for knee.

00:25:14.000 They made it more entertaining for the crowd, I guess.

00:25:18.000 Yeah, I don't know, man.

00:25:20.000 I think even the crowd...

00:25:21.000 That's one of the things that drives me nuts about modern MMA is stand-ups when when guys get taken down and they're fighting on the ground and then they get stood back up I mean, I just I just think it's ridiculous like if you only have five minutes especially me coming from a jujitsu background if you have five minutes and you take a guy down It's a lot of times is a slow progression to a submission and you know you you can't be like you're like come on guys Let's work. 0.98

00:25:45.000 Let's work like they're fucking working. 0.73

00:25:46.000 Okay, but sometimes when guys are working, it's a stalemate and Like sometimes you're trying to pass the guys trying to stop you from passing you try to advance the other side the guy tries to stop you from the other side like there's there's a lot of shit going on there's a lot of shit going on and Unexperienced referees or referees that are unexperienced in grappling or referees that are easily influenced by the crowd like sometimes they'll hear booing and you know you just What are you gonna is this show for assholes? 0.99

00:26:12.000 You know people who don't understand fighting you? 1.00

00:26:15.000 Stand him up!

00:26:16.000 Stand him up!

00:26:17.000 Stand him up!

00:26:17.000 Okay, stand him up.

00:26:18.000 No, these guys are trying to fight.

00:26:20.000 Elite XC was the worst example of that.

00:26:22.000 Big Country, Roy Nelson had Andrey Arlovsky down, inside control, working at Kimura, and they stood him up. 1.00

00:26:29.000 It was fucking ridiculous. 0.98

00:26:31.000 They had like a 15-second thing, where if you went to the ground, if something didn't happen in 15 seconds, they stood you up. 0.99

00:26:36.000 Yeah, sometimes with the UFC as well, when they press against the cage and there's this stalemate where absolutely nothing's happening at all.

00:26:44.000 I think that's the same as the Muay Thai.

00:26:46.000 If you push someone against the ropes and you're holding, holding, and you're not throwing anything, alright, then you've got to do it.

00:26:50.000 But if they're busy, for sure, let it go, keep it going.

00:26:53.000 Yeah, I don't know.

00:26:54.000 I just don't think you ever see that with high-level guys.

00:26:56.000 I think that's just a part of being a fighter who's not that good.

00:26:59.000 Or a fighter who's learning.

00:27:01.000 You see a guy like Cain Velasquez.

00:27:03.000 Cain Velasquez never gets warned to keep moving. 1.00

00:27:06.000 He's fucking punching you in the face. 1.00

00:27:08.000 He's taking you down. 1.00

00:27:09.000 It's like he's constantly in motion.

00:27:11.000 And that's why he's one of the elite of the elite.

00:27:13.000 You don't see that stalling, that kind of stalling on high-level guys.

00:27:19.000 I just think you've got to let them fight. 0.95

00:27:22.000 It's ridiculous enough. 0.74

00:27:23.000 Like five minutes is a small amount of time for a grappler.

00:27:26.000 And sometimes guys just are trying to work techniques and they're getting stalled out or someone's using good defense and the referee just standing them up.

00:27:37.000 Like, that's what jujitsu is all about.

00:27:39.000 It's all about the guy defends, and you try a different way.

00:27:42.000 Dai defends, you need to try to keep hammering at him until he can't keep the rhythm up.

00:27:46.000 And then you advance, and then eventually you catch him.

00:27:49.000 But sometimes you'll be, a guy will be defending like a wizard.

00:27:52.000 Like, if you watch two guys roll, two high-level guys, like, it is like we were expressing before.

00:27:57.000 It's like a conversation. 0.92

00:27:58.000 They're arguing about shit, and they're trying to find holes in each other's game, and it'll go on where it looks like it's a stalemate for five minutes, but... 0.97

00:28:07.000 Save like it's like a Marcelo Garcia character He's fighting a guy who's really athletic and you think you go man is how long can this guy hold Marcelo off and that's really what the question is It's not a matter of all this guy's just as good as Marcelo not really no Eventually he's gonna figure out the right combination of things to do to this guy And he's gonna have his back and then once he has his back that guy's fucked But it's like how long does it take to get him there and in an MMA? Halfway there, 0.97

00:28:33.000 you're like, boo!

00:28:34.000 Stand him up!

00:28:36.000 Stand him up!

00:28:37.000 Well, you're never going to see the most high-level practitioner succeed if that's the tactic.

00:28:43.000 You know, you're never going to see it get to that point.

00:28:45.000 And I think that's unfortunate about MMA today, is that They still have that stand-up thing.

00:28:51.000 I think stand-ups are...

00:28:52.000 I think it's a travesty.

00:28:53.000 I really do.

00:28:54.000 Even in Thailand, say we kick three rounds on the pads or five rounds on the pads, that's 15, 20 minutes.

00:29:00.000 But then every afternoon you're spending half an hour on the clinch, just working the knees nonstop for half an hour.

00:29:05.000 So they're spending more time working on that than they are actually kicking and punching things.

00:29:09.000 And then when it's time to come to a...

00:29:11.000 when the Thais go to Europe and stuff, all of a sudden it's like a... 0.99

00:29:13.000 A one-knee combination before they break it up, so they're taking away 90% of their tools.

00:29:19.000 That's an interesting thing you were talking about last night about Muay Thai scoring, that the clinching is like a big part of the scoring, whereas we look at clinching as stalling out or like, you know, something that they're doing where they're trying to like wait,

00:29:35.000 buy their time, figure out what to do next.

00:29:38.000 Like in Thailand, it's a big aspect of the fighting.

00:29:41.000 Yeah, this morning we mentioned it as well.

00:29:44.000 Round one, if they don't get in the clinch, no one bets.

00:29:47.000 No one bets until halfway through round two, all of a sudden they get into a clinch, and then it's like, boom!

00:29:52.000 You see the hands go crazy, because everyone's their own bookmaker in Thailand, so everyone's doing their own odds, and they won't bet until they know the other guy's got a solid base or a solid knee game.

00:30:02.000 That's so wild.

00:30:03.000 That's so wild.

00:30:04.000 The difference in their culture is so amazing.

00:30:07.000 I really have to get over there.

00:30:08.000 One of the things I want to do on my bucket list is go and watch a stadium fight in Thailand, like a real high-level fight.

00:30:15.000 Be there for the whole night and check it.

00:30:17.000 I'm almost willing to take a family vacation to Thailand and talk my wife into going to Thailand. 0.99

00:30:21.000 That's probably a fucking terrible idea. 0.97

00:30:23.000 So the boxing hardly score, leg kicks don't score, mainly body kicks, knees and elbows. 0.99

00:30:31.000 Body kicks, knees and elbows, and leg kicks don't hardly score?

00:30:34.000 Leg kicks don't score.

00:30:35.000 Because it's so easy to throw a leg kick, anyone can throw a leg kick, but it takes a high level to land a solid, even if it kicks the arms, that's considered a point as well.

00:30:42.000 Really?

00:30:42.000 If you get kicked in the arms without attempting to try and block it, that's a free point.

00:30:46.000 How many guys get arms broken in Thailand?

00:30:50.000 I haven't seen many, no.

00:30:51.000 That's amazing, because it's really common in MMA. I've seen a guy get his thigh broke.

00:30:55.000 That was pretty crazy.

00:30:56.000 Whoa.

00:30:56.000 That was hectic.

00:30:57.000 I've seen he hit the ground, and then he was on his side, and he went to roll over, and his hip went first, and then his leg went second.

00:31:04.000 And I was like, oh, that's broken for sure.

00:31:07.000 And the next day, sure enough, completely snapped in half, had to get the pins.

00:31:10.000 It was all in the magazines.

00:31:12.000 It was very nasty.

00:31:14.000 Not only that, you have to get the pins in Thailand.

00:31:16.000 Yeah.

00:31:18.000 Thailand's really good.

00:31:19.000 Thailand, the hospitals are more hygienic than they are in Australia.

00:31:24.000 Oh, well, that's not good for Australia.

00:31:27.000 I'd eat off the floor at a hospital in Thailand, for sure.

00:31:29.000 Really?

00:31:30.000 So they have really good...

00:31:31.000 I'm just being prejudiced.

00:31:32.000 Yeah, yeah. 1.00

00:31:33.000 Fucking American asshole. 1.00

00:31:34.000 American asshole that I am. 1.00

00:31:36.000 So what did he get his leg broken with? 1.00

00:31:39.000 It was a kick?

00:31:39.000 Viking.

00:31:40.000 Yeah, the guy just, boom, just chopped it hard.

00:31:40.000 Wow.

00:31:43.000 Goddamn, man. 1.00

00:31:44.000 Yeah, just snapped. 0.99

00:31:45.000 It was very...

00:31:46.000 Do you remember Stan Longinitas versus Dennis Alexio?

00:31:49.000 Yes, I do.

00:31:49.000 Yeah.

00:31:50.000 It was the big hype in Australia.

00:31:51.000 That was massive. 1.00

00:31:52.000 Fuck, yeah, man. 1.00

00:31:53.000 In the last 15 seconds. 1.00

00:31:54.000 Stan the man. 1.00

00:31:55.000 He had a motherfucker of a leg kick. 1.00

00:31:58.000 Jesus Christ. 1.00

00:31:59.000 Goddamn. 1.00

00:31:59.000 Yes. 1.00

00:32:00.000 He used to work with my friend Shuki.

00:32:03.000 Shuki from Majiro Gym.

00:32:05.000 Shuki was from Israel, and he had a gym out here in Encino. 0.90

00:32:10.000 And he was set up for a hip replacement from fucking holding the pads from Stan Longinitas. 1.00

00:32:18.000 Holding that thigh pad, he said, that motherfucker would kick me so hard that it was like jolting his hips. 1.00

00:32:24.000 It fucked up the inside of his hip. 1.00

00:32:26.000 That's amazing.

00:32:27.000 Yeah.

00:32:28.000 Ow. 1.00

00:32:29.000 Fuck heavyweights kicking you, dude. 1.00

00:32:31.000 Fuck all that. 1.00

00:32:32.000 Stan, he's a big guy, right? 1.00

00:32:34.000 He's not very tall.

00:32:35.000 He's only about my height, but big boy.

00:32:38.000 And then that was his main weapon, was the leg kicks with the hands.

00:32:38.000 Yeah.

00:32:42.000 That was a first-round kick, too.

00:32:44.000 I mean, that was amazing.

00:32:45.000 That was amazing.

00:32:46.000 Snap a guy's femur with one leg kick. 0.95

00:32:48.000 The whole hype and the movie Kickboxing coming out, and then Dennis Alexio, he was the king back then, too.

00:32:53.000 Yeah, he was.

00:32:54.000 This was Stan's hardest fight, and the big lead-up, and then the sold-out arena.

00:32:59.000 And then Dennis Alexio came out in the grass skirt.

00:33:02.000 Yeah, that Hawaii thing, yeah.

00:33:05.000 He was thinking that was going to help the impact for the thigh kick, so it had a bit of cushioning, but it sort of reversed on him.

00:33:11.000 Because he checked it.

00:33:12.000 He checked it, and then he went to put his foot down.

00:33:12.000 It was a check kick.

00:33:14.000 That's when his shin snapped.

00:33:16.000 It was his shin?

00:33:16.000 Wow.

00:33:17.000 It wasn't his thigh?

00:33:17.000 Oh, interesting.

00:33:18.000 It snapped through both his shin bones. 0.99

00:33:20.000 Goddamn! 0.99

00:33:22.000 Wow! 0.99

00:33:23.000 Why did I think it was the thigh bone?

00:33:25.000 It was so long ago.

00:33:26.000 They did a story on it because as he put his check up, he put his instep of his foot on his knee so there was no give instead of having the leg floppy and then he's locked it into his other leg and then as he's kicked through it, it's like kicking through a baseball bat.

00:33:39.000 Oh, I see.

00:33:40.000 Oh, okay.

00:33:41.000 They've done Anderson Silva.

00:33:44.000 Wow.

00:33:45.000 That's amazing.

00:33:46.000 It's rare that you see it on two high-level guys like that, where you see a leg break like that.

00:33:52.000 Maybe protein, injectable protein.

00:33:56.000 I don't think you really mean protein.

00:33:56.000 Injectable protein?

00:33:59.000 I think you're using euphemisms.

00:34:01.000 Did you see his fight, Dennis Alexio's fight with Don Wilson?

00:34:04.000 That's when he got schooled on leg kicks.

00:34:06.000 Did you ever see that?

00:34:06.000 No.

00:34:07.000 Dude, back on the day when Dennis Alexio was a young man, he wasn't schooled in the ways of the low kick and he fought Don the Dragon Wilson and Don Wilson fucked him up with low kicks. 0.95

00:34:07.000 No. 0.95

00:34:18.000 Defense and low kicks.

00:34:19.000 There's a guy that doesn't get enough credit.

00:34:20.000 Don Wilson had sort of like a weird sort of karate style, but he knew how to throw a good low kick.

00:34:25.000 You know, he was a very crafty fighter.

00:34:27.000 Yep, yep.

00:34:29.000 Geez, we're going back in time now. 1.00

00:34:30.000 Oh, fuck yeah. 0.99

00:34:31.000 Now we're in the 80s, I think. 0.99

00:34:34.000 And then you go before then, you go to, you know, you've got to go to what we talked about earlier, Dennis...

00:34:38.000 Superfoot.

00:34:39.000 Oh, yeah.

00:34:41.000 But there were some, I mean, not just Dennis Legsko, you go Don Wilson, then you go Benny Orquidez. 1.00

00:34:45.000 Benny Orquidez was the fucking shit. 0.99

00:34:48.000 I trained at his gym when I first moved to LA. That was the first place I went to. 1.00

00:34:51.000 I was like, I'm going to the Jet Center.

00:34:52.000 I wanted to wear long pants so bad after watching all this stuff.

00:34:55.000 Yeah.

00:34:56.000 What about the foot things?

00:34:57.000 Did you want to wear the foot cushions?

00:34:58.000 My first fight was the shin pads with the foot cushions.

00:35:01.000 And we used to spar with the foot cushions too, so they were in back then.

00:35:05.000 When Chuck Norris had that World Combat League, and he was doing a very similar thing that we were talking about, where they fight kind of in a small bowl, like a saucer.

00:35:15.000 Like, they didn't have a ring and they didn't have a cage.

00:35:17.000 They had just this sort of slightly elevated platform that had a lip to it.

00:35:21.000 So when they get to the outside edge, you know, the referee would bring them back in.

00:35:25.000 I thought it was a very smart way to do it.

00:35:26.000 Did you think about fighting in that at all?

00:35:28.000 Oh, I was still a puppy.

00:35:30.000 That was only a few years ago.

00:35:31.000 Yeah, I'm only...

00:35:32.000 You're only 20. You're 38 now, right?

00:35:37.000 38. Yeah, we can tell people.

00:35:38.000 You're not a chick. 1.00

00:35:40.000 But that wasn't that long ago.

00:35:42.000 You had to be like 30 back then.

00:35:44.000 That was a while ago.

00:35:45.000 I don't think it was 10 years ago.

00:35:46.000 I think World Combat League was like, I want to say it was like, I know I was working for the UFC at the time.

00:35:51.000 Because I went to see one live.

00:35:52.000 Okay. 0.99

00:35:53.000 And I got a hug from Chuck motherfucking Norris. 1.00

00:35:55.000 Damn it. 0.99

00:35:57.000 Back in the day I was so mad that I didn't get a picture of it. 0.99

00:35:59.000 And you lived.

00:36:00.000 Yeah, I did.

00:36:01.000 I lived.

00:36:01.000 I did.

00:36:02.000 I felt different though.

00:36:04.000 It was like I touched a lightning bolt.

00:36:05.000 And you got pregnant.

00:36:08.000 I might have.

00:36:10.000 So you didn't think about fighting?

00:36:13.000 K1 was the dream.

00:36:14.000 K1 was the pinnacle.

00:36:17.000 The pinnacle, if you'd say.

00:36:19.000 That was a bummer that that kind of folded under.

00:36:21.000 I was trying to get the UFC to buy K1 a long time ago.

00:36:24.000 And the number one thing that I talked to Dana White about is like, ah, people don't like kickboxing.

00:36:28.000 That PK karate ruined it for everybody.

00:36:30.000 And I was like, that's so crazy to say that, because that's like saying that UFC 1 ruined it for what we're seeing today.

00:36:37.000 Because this is so not related.

00:36:39.000 The product itself, the kickboxing product itself is so high level.

00:36:44.000 When you go to...

00:36:45.000 The fights, the classics, the Peter Ertz fights, the Andy Hoog, the Mike Bernardo, those fights, those fucking Jerome LeBanner, those were crazy fights.

00:36:56.000 I mean, if you look at that product, I couldn't imagine anybody not wanting to put on those fights.

00:37:00.000 Yeah, the production level too.

00:37:02.000 Everything was high definition, the slow-mos, the highlight packages that make up, you couldn't help but feel like this was the I was lucky enough to fight there in 2004, 2005, and we were pulling 40,000 people every show.

00:37:16.000 That's amazing.

00:37:17.000 40,000 people!

00:37:19.000 Yeah, and you'd walk out to the arena, and then you'd check out the stage, and sometimes you'd come up through the floor for your walkout, or it was just unbelievable.

00:37:28.000 Oh, they had like some elevator that would make you rise up through the floor?

00:37:31.000 I remember in the back room once, I was trying to find the stairs, and I've asked a lady, where do I go?

00:37:35.000 And she goes, oh, stand on that thing.

00:37:37.000 It's like, no way.

00:37:38.000 And she goes, oh yes. 1.00

00:37:39.000 It's like, fuck yes. 0.99

00:37:41.000 And then I remember coming up through the floor and then all of a sudden there's 40,000 people right in front of you. 0.99

00:37:47.000 It's like, this is amazing.

00:37:51.000 And then we had a TV audience of 20 million people in Tokyo also.

00:37:54.000 So it would be a delayed broadcast by about an hour.

00:37:58.000 So by the time we finished our fight and then on the bus, we'd have a TV on the bus.

00:38:01.000 You could watch yourself.

00:38:02.000 Pretty much watch your fight as you're way back on the way to the hotel.

00:38:05.000 Wow!

00:38:06.000 But Thailand was pretty cool too.

00:38:07.000 Thailand would have crowds.

00:38:09.000 Song Chai, who I was fighting for, he'd make all his money from the TV production.

00:38:14.000 So he'd do live shows in the middle of nowhere.

00:38:16.000 And people would drive for hours to be present for a live event.

00:38:21.000 And we'd have 40,000, 60,000.

00:38:23.000 There's this one big event once a year called the King's Birthday.

00:38:26.000 And we get 100,000 people plus every year on the 5th of December. 1.00

00:38:30.000 Holy shit! 0.99

00:38:31.000 I was lucky to fight on that four years in a row. 0.97

00:38:34.000 So the first time I went on the ring, it was the first time that my knees went weak, because as far as I could see was an ocean of heads, and I started trembling, and then I've come out in the first round, I've tried to finish him, and then by the fifth round I sort of spit my pennies, I fell over a couple of times.

00:38:51.000 And losing on points.

00:38:52.000 And then the next year I got invited back and I said, oh no, I'm not going to get spooked out this time.

00:38:56.000 Like the UFC jitters, like you talk about all the time.

00:38:59.000 I had the jitters the first one.

00:39:00.000 The second time I was like, no, this time I'm going to love it.

00:39:03.000 I'm going to absorb it.

00:39:04.000 I'm going to run with it.

00:39:05.000 So I got out there, big breath and 100,000 people.

00:39:08.000 And then I had the greatest fight of my life.

00:39:10.000 There was 10 Westerners versus 10 ties and I was the only Westerner to win.

00:39:14.000 I'm getting high-fived from Ty's on the way back to the change room.

00:39:16.000 And then the last time I did it, there was probably only 95,000 people there.

00:39:21.000 Ah, a little tiny crowd.

00:39:22.000 And I was looking at the back going, ah, jeez, where is everyone?

00:39:26.000 This is sad.

00:39:27.000 Yeah, it was nuts.

00:39:29.000 You could tell the difference between 95,000 and 100,000?

00:39:32.000 There was a little spot near the hot dog stand where you could have fit another 5,000 people easy.

00:39:38.000 What is that like, 100,000 people?

00:39:41.000 And then sometimes you'd have to get a police escort.

00:39:44.000 So you'd have three policemen either side of you and they'd push people out of the way for you as you make your way towards the crowd.

00:39:49.000 Just to get through.

00:39:50.000 And you're the Westerner.

00:39:51.000 So imagine you're one of three or four Westerners that are on the show and you're just surrounded by Thai people. 0.99

00:39:57.000 And at that stage I couldn't really speak Thai very well either.

00:40:00.000 And they're just looking at you like some sort of freak that you're dead.

00:40:03.000 You're fighting one of us. 1.00

00:40:03.000 You're dead. 1.00

00:40:04.000 And then you go and beat one of them. 0.97

00:40:06.000 And then all of a sudden they're high-fiving you and shaking your hand and want a photo with you.

00:40:11.000 It's just amazing.

00:40:13.000 So you didn't experience much racism over there?

00:40:16.000 No, no.

00:40:16.000 If you go out there and fight as hard as you can, win, lose, or joy, even if you lose but you fight like you're a man possessed, they love you.

00:40:25.000 There's no hatred.

00:40:26.000 There's no...

00:40:27.000 As long as you show heart, it's all about heart in Thailand. 0.91

00:40:30.000 That's true with a lot of Asian countries, right?

00:40:32.000 That's the same as Japan. 0.94

00:40:33.000 Japan, the samurai spirit.

00:40:34.000 If you go out there and give it your all, and you go out in a stretcher, they prefer you go out in a stretcher than you lay down from a knee and say, oh, it hurts.

00:40:42.000 Well, that's one of the major complaints from a lot of fighters, like Rampage said that many times about the difference between fighting in Japan and fighting in America, is that in Japan, they appreciate effort.

00:40:53.000 They want you to fight your best.

00:40:54.000 And if you fight your best, sometimes you fight someone who's better than you and you lose and that's just the way of fighting and it's a way of learning and that's how guys get better.

00:41:02.000 That adversity from loss and going back and regrouping and watching films and realizing where you have to step your game up, that's what creates champions.

00:41:10.000 I mean that is what creates a real champion is you have to be able to fight people who are better than you or as good as you or it's got to be a really high level that you're aspiring to and along the way sometimes you lose but in Japan They treat the losers in those really high-level fights where it's just incredible action and heart.

00:41:30.000 They treat the losers the same way they treat the winners.

00:41:33.000 That doesn't happen in America. 0.99

00:41:34.000 In America, that's the number one complaint is that people look at you like, oh, you're a loser. 1.00

00:41:39.000 You lost. 1.00

00:41:39.000 You loser. 1.00

00:41:40.000 I find Muay Thai and MMA, well, UFC especially, the crowd, I think, is a lot better than boxing. 0.99

00:41:50.000 If you have one loss in boxing, you're done.

00:41:52.000 You can be 26-0, 24 knockouts, one loss.

00:41:56.000 Oh, he has been.

00:41:57.000 He should retire.

00:41:58.000 He's done.

00:41:59.000 And then if you have two losses in boxing, don't talk about it anymore.

00:42:03.000 You're out of there.

00:42:04.000 Especially KO losses.

00:42:05.000 KO losses.

00:42:06.000 Yeah.

00:42:06.000 But in MMA or in Muay Thai especially...

00:42:10.000 As long as you fight hard and you lose to a good guy, your crowd base is still going to be there next time around.

00:42:16.000 You're not going to lose anybody.

00:42:17.000 As long as you fight hard and if you get knocked out, going out in your shield, they're still going to be next time to support you.

00:42:22.000 Well, there's a few fighters that still have that kind of support just because they're so exciting.

00:42:26.000 Like Vanderlei Silva is a perfect example.

00:42:28.000 Vanderlei has been knocked out quite a few times, but he still has a gigantic following because there's no such thing as a boring Vanderlei Silva fight.

00:42:37.000 Every Vanderlei-Silva fight, it's like, ready, ready, chaos!

00:42:41.000 Are you ready?

00:42:42.000 Are you ready? 1.00

00:42:42.000 Fucking mad violence until that guy's last heartbeat. 1.00

00:42:46.000 I mean, every time he fights, he fights like a man possessed, which is why he has so many people that love him. 0.99

00:42:52.000 But a lot of guys, they felt like Quentin, Rampage especially, I hate to keep bringing him up, but he experienced a lot of hate after beating Chuck Liddell.

00:43:02.000 And he was like, I can't believe people are upset at me for being good.

00:43:06.000 Because I'd beat their hero. 1.00

00:43:07.000 All these people would say horrible shit to them. 1.00

00:43:10.000 I think in that sense, the United States crowds, there's something to be desired about some of the people that are excited about fighting. 1.00

00:43:18.000 MMA crowd.

00:43:19.000 I noticed with George, especially hanging with George, when we were training together, he put a few photos up.

00:43:24.000 I'd go to his page.

00:43:26.000 And I was astonished by the amount of hate that George has on his page.

00:43:31.000 He has like four million people that follow him and his Twitter.

00:43:34.000 And then all is, when you're going to finish a fight, George?

00:43:37.000 Or, if I need to go to sleep, I just put a George St. Pierre photo and I fall asleep halfway through the first round. 1.00

00:43:43.000 It's like, fuck, man. 0.99

00:43:44.000 This is one of the greatest fighters of all time. 1.00

00:43:46.000 How can you not appreciate him dominating someone for five rounds?

00:43:49.000 Why does he have to knock out someone every single time he fights?

00:43:51.000 Floyd doesn't knock out everybody, and he's the highest paid athlete in the world.

00:43:54.000 Why can't the same be for MMA guys?

00:43:57.000 If someone dominates someone, why can't you appreciate his skills instead of, oh, it has to be a knockout.

00:44:01.000 It has to be a knockout. 0.99

00:44:02.000 Oh, believe me, if you go and watch Floyd and see him interact with the public, that guy gets fucked with as much as anybody. 0.99

00:44:09.000 Yeah, they showed it on his 24-7, like one of his last, those HBO things for 24-7. 0.94

00:44:09.000 Oh, really? 0.94

00:44:15.000 Like when he was out at a burger place, people were heckling him.

00:44:19.000 They were heckling him at a cheeseburger place because the camera was on.

00:44:19.000 Oh, yeah.

00:44:22.000 In his, in front of his, because he's a little guy. 0.99

00:44:24.000 It was like right in front of his face they were fucking with him. 0.98

00:44:26.000 Well, didn't he get punched by T.Y., didn't they? 0.99

00:44:28.000 Someone supposedly punched a brother. 1.00

00:44:30.000 You know, I have a hard time believing some stupid fucking rappers gonna punch Floyd Mayweather. 1.00

00:44:35.000 You know, and if he did, he knew that other people were there, you know? 1.00

00:44:39.000 Put those two, yeah, okay, you want to hit him?

00:44:41.000 Okay, how about we do this? 0.68

00:44:42.000 How about we lock the two of you in a conference room? 1.00

00:44:44.000 Let's just shut the door and see what the fuck's going on without your buddies in the room. 1.00

00:44:48.000 Getting punched by a rapper. 0.99

00:44:50.000 Could you imagine this indignity of being one of the greatest, if not the greatest, boxer of all time? 1.00

00:44:56.000 A lot of people give that guy shit. 0.98

00:44:57.000 I'd say he's not the greatest, that Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest. 1.00

00:45:00.000 I had this conversation with Max Kellerman about it.

00:45:03.000 I respect Max Kellerman very much, but I don't think that Floyd Mayweather would have lost to Jake LaMotta.

00:45:11.000 What about Julio Chavez?

00:45:12.000 It was amazing.

00:45:14.000 It was time.

00:45:15.000 97-0 before his first loss.

00:45:17.000 But Meldrick Taylor has beaten him until he got tagged and I don't think Meldrick Taylor is the same boxer that Floyd Mayweather is.

00:45:23.000 I think Floyd Mayweather defensively is the best ever.

00:45:25.000 We've seen him get hit like three times in his whole career.

00:45:28.000 You know, Maidana cracked him in the last fight, but he only cracked him in like at the end of the round.

00:45:34.000 And you could see like he got rocked in that fight.

00:45:36.000 He got rocked by Shane Mosley, but he's just so good defensively.

00:45:40.000 He's so good.

00:45:41.000 He just never really experiences much danger in his fights, you know?

00:45:46.000 I mean, you go back to all the other greats and they were in wars.

00:45:52.000 He's never in a war.

00:45:53.000 He's just never in a war. 0.98

00:45:54.000 And you could talk all the shit you want, but look at the guys he's fighting. 0.99

00:45:58.000 You know, he's fighting Juan Manuel Marquez. 0.99

00:46:00.000 Look what happened with Juan Manuel Marquez and Pacquiao.

00:46:04.000 I mean, they're in a war and Marquez caught him and knocked him out.

00:46:07.000 Dead!

00:46:07.000 You know?

00:46:09.000 Good luck trying to catch Floyd like that.

00:46:11.000 Good luck.

00:46:12.000 He's just never gonna make those kind of mistakes.

00:46:15.000 And one of the things that's so exciting about Pacquiao is that he throws himself into danger.

00:46:19.000 He's so aggressive and he's so fast and he's willing to...

00:46:23.000 He tries to finish fights.

00:46:24.000 He tries to put himself in the line of fire in order to achieve victory. 1.00

00:46:28.000 Floyd doesn't do that shit. 0.99

00:46:30.000 Floyd's shoulder rolling and popping you with jabs and moving on you. 1.00

00:46:34.000 You see guys like Canelo Alvarez just look so flustered.

00:46:39.000 They don't know what to do with him.

00:46:40.000 A lot of guys look like they're giving up halfway through the third round.

00:46:44.000 The first round, they're like, I'm gonna make a statement today.

00:46:47.000 No one's gonna be able to do what I'm gonna do.

00:46:49.000 And then by the third round, they just come out like beginners.

00:46:51.000 And they're too afraid to throw because Floyd's already a step ahead of him.

00:46:55.000 Yeah.

00:46:56.000 If he had strong hands, if his hands didn't break all the time, you know, like Floyd, he's had quite a few, like, broken hands.

00:47:02.000 He's had a serious problem with hand breaks. 0.88

00:47:04.000 If he didn't have that man, god damn, you know, if he had punching power as well as that insane defensive technique, he's, in my opinion, he's the most masterful of all the boxers I've ever watched. 0.92

00:47:16.000 Bernard Hopkins, right up there. 0.98

00:47:17.000 Andre Ward is another one.

00:47:18.000 He doesn't get enough credit.

00:47:19.000 Like, a lot of Americans, for whatever reason, are not aware of how good Andre Ward is. 0.98

00:47:24.000 But goddamn, he's a good boxer. 0.97

00:47:26.000 Another one, just brilliant defensively. 0.99

00:47:29.000 Very rarely see him in trouble.

00:47:30.000 And he's so different, too, because Andre Ward fights different styles for different fighters.

00:47:36.000 Like, some fighters, he'll fight on the outside, he'll fight long range, and he'll box them.

00:47:42.000 And then on other fighters, he just fucking gets right up in your grill and he's throwing these combinations and cutting angles on you and never letting you breathe.

00:47:49.000 He's very versatile. 0.94

00:47:50.000 Very smart too, man.

00:47:51.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:47:52.000 I miss the 90s.

00:47:53.000 I miss the boxing in the 90s.

00:47:54.000 Do you?

00:47:55.000 I miss the Oscar de la Hoye's, the Shane Mosley's, the...

00:47:57.000 Back in them days when men fought men, it was...

00:47:59.000 Men fought men? 0.53

00:48:00.000 Yeah, it was crazy.

00:48:01.000 What are they doing now?

00:48:02.000 What's going on now?

00:48:03.000 They're sort of, I don't want to fight you because you might beat me, or I got that zero that might disappear if you beat me, so I don't want that happening. 0.92

00:48:09.000 Do you think a guy like Floyd Mayweather, because he's 47-0, that it contributes to that because he makes so much fucking money?

00:48:14.000 Him being 47-0, I mean, that guy, the money team, and rolls around and Rolls Royce, does that drive you crazy?

00:48:20.000 Why hasn't it taken it so long for Mr. Pacquiao to get this fight to be done in this five-year-old fight that should have been done ages ago?

00:48:29.000 Well, probably because Floyd is smart, which is why he's 47-0, and he wants to fight him when he knows he can beat him.

00:48:34.000 Yeah, true.

00:48:35.000 And make $120 million.

00:48:37.000 I mean, that's what's up.

00:48:39.000 I mean, what's up at the end of the day?

00:48:40.000 Look, if they fought in their primes, and I'm not saying Pacquiao...

00:48:43.000 Let's be real about this.

00:48:45.000 Let's be totally real about this.

00:48:48.000 Pacquiao went up eight weight classes and retained his punching power.

00:48:52.000 And there was always all sorts of allegations of special proteins that came in needle form.

00:49:00.000 Mexican supplements, if you were. 0.93

00:49:02.000 I don't know what the fuck was going on, but that's one of the things that Floyd always was saying, and a lot of other fighters have said it too. 0.94

00:49:10.000 I don't know if it's true, but if it is true, and Floyd wasn't doing those same things, and they did fight and Pacquiao did have that unnatural advantage, you know, a few years ago, like back when he fought Margarito or, you know, back before Marquez knocked him out. 0.97

00:49:26.000 You gotta wonder like maybe it's intelligent to not fight a guy like that at that time If you know something that that you and I and the regular people that aren't involved in the deep deep in the boxing world Maybe smart might be smart.

00:49:39.000 Just you know, nobody wants to see a guy cheat his way to victory That's like that's something that drives everyone crazy.

00:49:45.000 There's no doubt about There's no doubt in the fact that Pacquiao works hard.

00:49:51.000 I mean, Pacquiao's discipline, he's focused, he's an amazing fighter.

00:49:54.000 I mean, no doubt about it. 0.99

00:49:56.000 But, man, there's a lot of fucking allegations connected to his camp. 0.99

00:50:00.000 That Alex Ariza guy, the guy that left and was, who the fuck was he training with? 0.99

00:50:05.000 He was training with one of Pacquiao's opponents. 0.99

00:50:08.000 I forgot which fight it was, but that guy's got a lot of weird shit attached to him. 0.92

00:50:13.000 There's a lot of these guys that have a lot of weird allegations that may or may not be true, but if you're smart and you're a guy like Floyd Mayweather, why not avoid those guys? 0.93

00:50:22.000 And that's something that we were talking about earlier today because George, when he was talking about, when he left the UFC, And when he said, I'm gonna take a break and I'm gonna relinquish my title, one of the things that he talked about was the problem with PEDs.

00:50:36.000 He talked, he said, this is a huge problem in MMA. And a lot of people poo-pooed him.

00:50:41.000 We don't need to name names.

00:50:43.000 A lot of people said that, oh, he's exaggerating. 0.99

00:50:46.000 But now, man, it's now with these more stringent tests that are being performed, fucking Anderson Silva pisses hot. 0.99

00:50:53.000 Yes. 0.99

00:50:54.000 I mean, everybody, look, Hector Lombard, who saw that coming?

00:50:57.000 Who saw?

00:50:58.000 I can't believe Hector Lombard.

00:51:00.000 That doesn't make any sense.

00:51:01.000 He doesn't look like a guy who was on supplements.

00:51:03.000 But, you know, it's a part.

00:51:06.000 It's a part of the sport.

00:51:07.000 It's very unfortunate.

00:51:08.000 In Thailand, if we wanted a pick-me-up, the only thing we would get from the chemist was a ginseng.

00:51:14.000 That's it?

00:51:14.000 Ginseng?

00:51:15.000 I'd go down, I'd get 20 ginseng for 20 days.

00:51:19.000 For 20 days?

00:51:21.000 And they cut you off after 20 days?

00:51:23.000 Let's not get crazy, foreigner.

00:51:25.000 I only had a small budget.

00:51:26.000 I'd have to wait for my next fight to get prize money to buy another 20 for my next fight.

00:51:30.000 Well, how much does ginseng cost down there?

00:51:32.000 20 baht or something, a tablet.

00:51:34.000 What is a baht in American money?

00:51:36.000 50 cents.

00:51:37.000 50 cents? 1.00

00:51:38.000 Oh, damn. 1.00

00:51:39.000 10 bucks for 20 ginseng tablets. 1.00

00:51:41.000 Yeah, I was poor.

00:51:41.000 I was only making $30 a fight back then.

00:51:44.000 Jesus fucking Christ. 0.99

00:51:46.000 And then I'd have to give 50% of that to the camp too. 0.99

00:51:49.000 What is the cheapest you've ever made for a fight?

00:51:53.000 $30.

00:51:53.000 $30?

00:51:54.000 Yeah.

00:51:55.000 And I was fighting ties with 100 fights.

00:51:57.000 And you had to give how much back?

00:51:58.000 50%.

00:51:59.000 So the deal with my camp was I live for free, train for free, and eat, train, and live.

00:52:06.000 And then every time I fought, I'd give 50% to the camp.

00:52:09.000 So if I made 1,000 baht, 500. If I made 10,000 baht, it was 5,000.

00:52:14.000 And then I was lucky enough to win a million baht, so then I'd have to give the camp 500,000 baht.

00:52:20.000 And that was like, oh my god, that's like...

00:52:22.000 Four lifetimes of prize money right there.

00:52:24.000 That's insane.

00:52:25.000 A million baht would be how much American money?

00:52:28.000 It was $35,000 Australian.

00:52:31.000 So about $10 Australian.

00:52:33.000 No, $10 American.

00:52:34.000 No.

00:52:36.000 What is a million?

00:52:38.000 Okay.

00:52:38.000 I think the Australian dollar is about equivalent to a peso.

00:52:42.000 I don't know what that means.

00:52:43.000 About $35,000.

00:52:45.000 So a million baht is $35,000?

00:52:47.000 Probably about $35,000 now, yeah. 0.96

00:52:49.000 That's ridiculous.

00:52:50.000 That was the most you made there. 0.99

00:52:51.000 That's insane.

00:52:52.000 No wonder why you're angry at Floyd Mayweather.

00:52:55.000 And then I had to give 50% to the camp, too.

00:52:58.000 So $17,000.

00:53:00.000 Well, at least you were living for free.

00:53:02.000 Yeah, yeah, true.

00:53:03.000 But sometimes I wouldn't fight for ages, too.

00:53:05.000 So I needed that and then eating for free and I had somewhere to roof over my head.

00:53:09.000 I want to talk to you about your journey because as a young man, as a teenager, you chose to move to Thailand.

00:53:16.000 You didn't know the language and you immersed yourself in Thai culture and became a Thai fighter.

00:53:22.000 I mean, that is an incredible adventure for a young man to take part of in a very rare and brave one that not a lot of people Ever.

00:53:31.000 Not a lot of people really stick their neck out like that and do something along those lines.

00:53:35.000 The movie Kickboxer came out, the Van Damme.

00:53:38.000 It's like, I want to walk in this guy's footsteps.

00:53:40.000 I want to be this guy.

00:53:41.000 So I had 13 fights in Australia.

00:53:44.000 I won an Australian title, a South Pacific title.

00:53:46.000 And then I had a relationship with a guy called Richard Vell, who owns a Thai restaurant.

00:53:51.000 And he said, you fought amazing tonight.

00:53:53.000 I want to know, do you want to go to Thailand and learn from the best?

00:53:56.000 I said, I'd love to learn from the best.

00:53:58.000 That'd be amazing.

00:53:58.000 He said, if you can organize your passport, I'll do everything else.

00:54:01.000 I'll do your plane ticket.

00:54:02.000 I'll find you a camp.

00:54:03.000 I'll train.

00:54:05.000 So I went and got a passport.

00:54:07.000 And then sure enough, he bought me a plane ticket.

00:54:09.000 And he said, you must promise me you can't come back for six months.

00:54:12.000 If you come back before, then me and you are done.

00:54:14.000 Done and dusted.

00:54:15.000 Wow!

00:54:15.000 So you've got to promise me you'll stay.

00:54:17.000 So I went to Thailand, moved to Bangkok.

00:54:17.000 Okay, I'll stay.

00:54:21.000 No one could speak English. 0.99

00:54:22.000 I had one of those ones where there's a hole in the ground and you had to pull in the little shit. 0.99

00:54:28.000 And then there was no toilet paper, so you had to pour water in your hand to wipe your bum. 0.99

00:54:32.000 You had no hot water, so we had to rinse on, soap up, then rinse off. 0.99

00:54:37.000 It's hilarious that that is what you would complain about when people are kicking you in the fucking legs, body, and head all day. 1.00

00:54:44.000 It's like, yeah, you gotta wipe your ass weird. 1.00

00:54:47.000 You're shitting into a hole. 1.00

00:54:48.000 Sleep on a wooden floor next to ten other dudes, and there's no beds. 1.00

00:54:52.000 Wow.

00:54:53.000 And that's not included in the seven hours training of Thai boxing, too.

00:54:55.000 So when you finish your three and a half hours at night, you've got a wooden floor to look forward to to go to bed on.

00:55:01.000 Wow.

00:55:02.000 No cushion at all?

00:55:03.000 No.

00:55:03.000 I put a big blanket down as a bit of cushion in between that and the wood.

00:55:09.000 How much snoring was involved?

00:55:10.000 The worst one was the arms and legs.

00:55:12.000 The tires would throw an arm over you in the middle of the night and you'd have to get it off in case they took advantage of you.

00:55:20.000 And then, yeah, so I had five fights for five wins, four knockouts.

00:55:25.000 Came back to Australia and then the Thai camp rang my sponsor and they said, hey, he looks like he's got a bit of promise.

00:55:30.000 Can you send him back again?

00:55:31.000 So he rang me up and said, do you want to go back to Thailand?

00:55:33.000 I said, I'd love to go back to Thailand.

00:55:35.000 I don't want to work.

00:55:36.000 I want to live this Thai boxing dream. 0.97

00:55:38.000 So I said, okay, this time you've got to promise me 12 months.

00:55:41.000 Don't come back within 12 months.

00:55:42.000 You've got to commit your whole life.

00:55:44.000 I said, sure.

00:55:45.000 So I went over.

00:55:46.000 And then I was fighting on the little shows back then.

00:55:49.000 And then the opportunity, the main guy that was at our camp, Sang Tan, he was fighting on a big show.

00:55:53.000 And then I went to support him.

00:55:56.000 And then a guy called Danny Bill from France, he was supposed to fight one of the big ties, and he never rocked up.

00:56:00.000 He disappeared somehow.

00:56:02.000 And they said, oh, Danny Bill's not here.

00:56:04.000 Who's going to fight this guy?

00:56:05.000 My trainer put his hand up and said, this guy will.

00:56:07.000 He'll fight him.

00:56:08.000 And I absolutely pooed my pants. 0.99

00:56:11.000 I shit myself. 0.99

00:56:12.000 How many fights did you have at this point? 0.99

00:56:15.000 13, 14, about 16. And I said, he'll fight him, he'll fight him.

00:56:20.000 This guy's had like 250 fights, and my young teenager here, he'll fight him.

00:56:23.000 And then he said, oh, he can't fight him.

00:56:26.000 I'll let him fight, though.

00:56:27.000 Does anyone in the room want to fight the white guy?

00:56:29.000 And I kid you not, about 60 hands went up in the room. 0.95

00:56:32.000 They said, well, we'll fight him, we'll fight him.

00:56:33.000 So they said, oh, you two, you're about the close size.

00:56:36.000 So I ended up fighting this guy in front of 40,000 people.

00:56:39.000 I got cut in the fifth, bloodstreamed in my face.

00:56:42.000 I ended up doing enough to beat him every round.

00:56:44.000 And then the number one promoter in Thailand said, okay, done.

00:56:48.000 From now on, you're going to start fighting for me.

00:56:50.000 And then the next minute, I'm starting to fight at 60,000.

00:56:53.000 I'm starting to fight at Lumpini Stadium.

00:56:55.000 I'm fighting on TV, all the fights.

00:56:57.000 I'm the first Westerner to make the number one selling Muay Thai magazine in Thailand.

00:57:03.000 And all the Thais started calling me the dangerous kangaroo.

00:57:09.000 Then I started reaching the A-class guys, which was a bit of a shock.

00:57:13.000 I fought a guy called Orono, and I had 20 fights, and he had close to 300, and he was the household name.

00:57:19.000 He was the Anderson Silva, almost, of Muay Thai in Thailand.

00:57:24.000 And then the third round, he cut me 21 stitches.

00:57:27.000 The fight gets stopped.

00:57:28.000 So I went down a few pegs.

00:57:31.000 And then from then on, backwards and forwards, backwards and forwards.

00:57:33.000 And then the year 2000, I got to rematch the Orono again.

00:57:38.000 And this time was on the King's birthday in front of 100,000 people live on Thai TV. And then I schooled him every round and won his world title in front of all his Thais.

00:57:47.000 And then from that moment on, all of a sudden, I started becoming a...

00:57:51.000 Sort of a celebrity in Thailand.

00:57:53.000 Not a celebrity, but in the Muay Thai world, I was a somebody now.

00:57:57.000 Wow, that's amazing.

00:57:58.000 And then from there, I come back to Australia, open the gym, and then I had no trainer.

00:58:03.000 And then so I got a few of my friends, even to this day, I get my friends, hey, can you hold the pads like this?

00:58:07.000 I watch the fight, the promoter ring, hey, do you want to fight this guy?

00:58:10.000 Okay, so I'll tell my friend, hey, can you hold the pads like this?

00:58:13.000 And then I'll go and fight, hey, do you want to come and give me some water in between rounds?

00:58:18.000 So when you were training in Australia, you were self-trained?

00:58:21.000 Self-trained.

00:58:21.000 To this day, I'm still self-trained.

00:58:23.000 To this day?

00:58:24.000 But your time in Thai, in Thailand, you were training with the best Thai trainers?

00:58:24.000 Yeah.

00:58:29.000 So the Thais, they said, okay, you pretty much, after being here for five years, you pretty much know our system now. 0.93

00:58:29.000 The best Thai. 0.93

00:58:34.000 All you have to do is get fit.

00:58:35.000 And then I come back to Australia, and that's all I've been doing, just getting my friends to help me.

00:58:39.000 Do you feel like there's anything that you miss when you do that as opposed to training in Thailand with those guys?

00:58:46.000 If you had your druthers, if you had a choice, would you have a world-class Thai trainer come and train with you in Australia?

00:58:54.000 Yes.

00:58:55.000 But at the same time, it's been working.

00:58:57.000 What I've been doing is working.

00:58:59.000 I've been quite successful the last 15 years doing it by myself.

00:59:03.000 And there's no middleman either.

00:59:04.000 I don't have to worry about a manager or someone telling me what to do.

00:59:08.000 And I push myself in my training to a high standard where I'm, I guess, doing okay because I've won another eight world titles by myself.

00:59:18.000 And I've been lucky enough to travel the world too, going all over Europe and fighting in Japan 16 times and, yeah, beating everybody in Australia already set for my last one.

00:59:28.000 But, yeah, no, it's been good.

00:59:30.000 I like it.

00:59:31.000 You fought some legends too, man.

00:59:32.000 I mean, your record, if you look at all the names, like the legends of Muay Thai, you fought quite a few of them, man.

00:59:39.000 Yeah, it's been cool.

00:59:41.000 And like you were saying before, to get famous, you've got to fight the famous guys.

00:59:46.000 I don't want to be one of those ones, like, I'm not afraid to step up.

00:59:51.000 And if I lose to him, at least I had to grow.

00:59:52.000 I tried.

00:59:54.000 But the majority of the time I'm winning, it's like, yes, I can't believe I beat that guy. 0.99

00:59:57.000 I shit myself for the last six weeks getting ready for you. 0.87

01:00:00.000 And I've won, so how good is this? 0.99

01:00:01.000 This is awesome.

01:00:04.000 And then sometimes I'll match myself as well with someone.

01:00:07.000 The crowd's going, why are you fighting this guy?

01:00:09.000 You're old.

01:00:10.000 This guy's going to wipe the floor.

01:00:12.000 And then I win again.

01:00:14.000 It's just such a self-satisfying feeling to know that I can still compete with the elite.

01:00:19.000 Do people give you a hard time because you're old?

01:00:21.000 Well, you're not that old.

01:00:22.000 You're younger than me.

01:00:23.000 You're 38. But 38 in combat sports is...

01:00:26.000 But I've been getting told I've been old since I was 27, 28. Even when I was in the K1, I was the old guy then, being 28 years old.

01:00:34.000 28 was older than K1? Really?

01:00:36.000 Yeah, they were going, when are you going to give it up? 1.00

01:00:39.000 It's one of those ones, I want to ride it to the last wave until, once you're dead, you're dead. 0.70

01:00:45.000 And I don't want to regret not doing what I'm doing and just holding pads.

01:00:49.000 I'd rather be in the limelight and still try to reach that pinnacle, the Mount Everest of fighting.

01:00:56.000 How many more years do you think you can do it at 38 years old?

01:01:00.000 Do you have a number in your head or do you just do it while your body is healthy and while you enjoy it?

01:01:04.000 I just want to keep going.

01:01:07.000 Bernard Hopkins is 50. He was supposed to retire when he was 40. He promised his mom he was going to give it up when he was 40 and he's lasted another 10 years and he's still fighting the elite and still winning world titles.

01:01:16.000 Did his mom die?

01:01:17.000 He's like, well, I'm good.

01:01:18.000 Yeah.

01:01:21.000 Some guys like that, you know.

01:01:22.000 Well, I promised her, but she ain't even here anymore.

01:01:27.000 I don't know.

01:01:28.000 He's so good defensively.

01:01:30.000 You know, he's another one. 1.00

01:01:31.000 Yeah, he's a killer. 1.00

01:01:32.000 Yeah, he's a great... 0.96

01:01:33.000 I was amazed that he was willing to fight Kovalev at this stage of his life.

01:01:37.000 At 49 years of age, fights one of the best knockout artists, like, in the last decade in that division.

01:01:44.000 Yeah, it's crazy.

01:01:46.000 Skills.

01:01:47.000 It's just skills.

01:01:48.000 Having skills.

01:01:49.000 Having the ability to know what to do in any given time.

01:01:53.000 Step.

01:01:53.000 Know where to step.

01:01:54.000 Know what's coming.

01:01:56.000 Like we were saying, know that language.

01:01:58.000 He knows the language of boxing so well.

01:02:00.000 You don't get famous holding pads.

01:02:02.000 You don't get famous writing cool Facebook posts.

01:02:06.000 I've tried, but it does happen.

01:02:08.000 You're repeating that.

01:02:10.000 You've repeated that many times, like the getting famous.

01:02:13.000 That's a big part of what motivates you.

01:02:18.000 Since I was about five or six years old, every time I look into the sky and see a single star, I wish I can be remembered.

01:02:27.000 When I blow my birthday candles out, I wish that my legacy, once I die, I can be that guy that people go, yep, Wayne Pa.

01:02:36.000 Wow, that's interesting, man.

01:02:38.000 That's a weird drive for a young man to have.

01:02:42.000 What do you attribute that to?

01:02:44.000 To want to be remembered?

01:02:46.000 Yeah, my whole life, that's my only goal.

01:02:50.000 Winning a world title was always, I didn't want to win a world title.

01:02:53.000 I wanted to win a world title in Thailand against a Thai, against a genuine. 1.00

01:02:57.000 I don't want to win against someone down the road.

01:02:59.000 I always wanted to take it to the next level.

01:03:01.000 And once I did win the world title, I ended up winning two in Bangkok.

01:03:04.000 But now it's about the legacy.

01:03:06.000 It's about the...

01:03:08.000 Yeah, it's like any human being.

01:03:11.000 Once you pass, you just turn into flowers.

01:03:14.000 I want to be...

01:03:15.000 I want people to look like Dicker.

01:03:17.000 The amount of respect that I show him after he's passed away for the last couple of years, I want people to look at me in exactly the same light, hopefully one day.

01:03:25.000 He died of a heart attack while riding a bike, right?

01:03:28.000 Yeah, in the park.

01:03:29.000 By himself.

01:03:30.000 No one would give him any CPR. He just passed away.

01:03:34.000 That's so crazy.

01:03:35.000 Do they know what was wrong with him?

01:03:36.000 It doesn't even make sense.

01:03:38.000 Yeah, who knows?

01:03:39.000 I'm 42 years old, and then to die on a push bike is crazy.

01:03:43.000 You were talking to me earlier about the injuries that he had suffered, that he had his foot fused to his ankle?

01:03:49.000 Yes.

01:03:50.000 Yes, he's broken his leg that many times.

01:03:52.000 This is what I've seen from the documentary.

01:03:54.000 I could be wrong.

01:03:55.000 I'm sure Bass would have a better understanding of being Dutch.

01:03:58.000 But yeah, from the stories that he told me, his leg was, they were going to amputate it.

01:04:03.000 They got to the stage where he said, well, what else can we do?

01:04:06.000 Oh, we can fuse your ankle to your shin.

01:04:08.000 So he used to say, I used to just do pads.

01:04:10.000 I wouldn't spar and just save it to the fight.

01:04:11.000 And then if it broke, it broke.

01:04:12.000 But I just, or I'd change the southpaw and then hopefully not use it.

01:04:17.000 But then he was so adamant that he had the win, he'd just go back to orthodox and just start using it.

01:04:21.000 Wow.

01:04:23.000 Just that crazy mentality.

01:04:24.000 They kept breaking it.

01:04:26.000 If you kept breaking it, they were going to have to amputate it.

01:04:28.000 Yeah, that's what the documentary said anyway.

01:04:30.000 And he's still kicking it.

01:04:31.000 Yeah. 0.92

01:04:31.000 So nuts. 0.92

01:04:32.000 I remember when he fought Dwayne Lugwig on his last fight on K1. We caught an elevator together.

01:04:39.000 I said, how are you feeling?

01:04:40.000 How's it all going?

01:04:41.000 And he showed me his arm, and his arm was black from his wrist to his shoulder.

01:04:41.000 You feel good?

01:04:46.000 And he said, I've pulled my bicep.

01:04:47.000 I can't punch right.

01:04:49.000 But it's okay.

01:04:50.000 It's okay.

01:04:50.000 I win.

01:04:51.000 No problem.

01:04:52.000 And sure enough, he dropped Dwayne Legwig three or four times.

01:04:57.000 I don't know if it was by points or by knockout.

01:04:59.000 He won by points.

01:05:01.000 With one arm.

01:05:03.000 That's incredible. 1.00

01:05:04.000 And then you see something like that and you think, fuck, I want to be that guy. 0.98

01:05:10.000 I'm so torn on that because on one hand, I admire mental toughness. 0.99

01:05:15.000 I mean, obviously.

01:05:16.000 I mean, that's just the ability to block that out and say, it's okay.

01:05:19.000 I'll win.

01:05:19.000 No problem.

01:05:20.000 I mean, that's incredible.

01:05:21.000 But on the other hand, he's the example of what happens when you are really mentally tough.

01:05:26.000 His legs were shot. 1.00

01:05:28.000 His ankles were fucked up. 1.00

01:05:30.000 His body was falling apart. 1.00

01:05:31.000 It's like you redline your body.

01:05:34.000 Because that's how he fought.

01:05:35.000 He fought redline.

01:05:36.000 I mean, if you've never seen Ramon Decker's fight, if you're someone who...

01:05:41.000 If you're not aware of Muay Thai, just do yourself a favor and Google Ramon Decker.

01:05:46.000 I mean, there's a lot of people that folks will talk up and, you know, and you watch it and it's like, well, they kind of exaggerated.

01:05:54.000 You can't do that guy justice.

01:05:56.000 You can't do him justice.

01:05:57.000 You gotta watch how violently he fought.

01:06:00.000 Just so hyper-aggressive.

01:06:03.000 And vicious knockout power, beautiful combinations, and everything he threw was 100%.

01:06:10.000 Everything he threw.

01:06:11.000 There was no setups.

01:06:12.000 Everything was...

01:06:13.000 It was just so exciting to watch, man.

01:06:16.000 But look, his body just eventually just deteriorated and fell apart.

01:06:21.000 Where's the line, though?

01:06:22.000 Where's...

01:06:23.000 He did it, but the legacy is shot past the longevity.

01:06:28.000 So he'll never be forgotten for how tenacious and how crazy and how violent he was.

01:06:33.000 So that's what I want.

01:06:34.000 I want to go until I can't go anymore.

01:06:36.000 And then if I pass, I want to be a member for that guy that...

01:06:38.000 It seems interesting that it's sort of maybe the only way to be great is to kind of like...

01:06:45.000 Break your body trying to be great.

01:06:47.000 It seems like, look at Cain Velasquez.

01:06:49.000 He can't get through a training camp.

01:06:52.000 I mean, he's fought two times, I think, in the last few years, and it's because everything keeps breaking. 0.98

01:06:58.000 His knee keeps fucking up, his shoulders keep fucking up, and it's because he's so mentally tough. 0.95

01:07:02.000 It's because any injury that guy has just goes in the back of his brain, and it's just... 0.99

01:07:07.000 He's a champion.

01:07:09.000 It's just juggernaut.

01:07:10.000 Press forward.

01:07:11.000 You know, attack, attack, attack, attack.

01:07:13.000 And these guys that have that ability to, you know, Chris Weidman is another one.

01:07:17.000 He just keeps injuring himself.

01:07:19.000 He's had knee surgery. 0.98

01:07:20.000 He just fucked up his ribs. 0.96

01:07:22.000 Dominic Cruz. 0.99

01:07:23.000 Yeah, Dominic Cruz is another one.

01:07:24.000 It's like this drive to attack and succeed oftentimes forces their body to just, like, their body says, listen, dude, you're being crazy here.

01:07:35.000 You can't keep doing this.

01:07:36.000 We're just going to check out.

01:07:37.000 How about we give you a little knee injury here and take six months off, you know?

01:07:40.000 It's like, It's that adrenaline drug.

01:07:43.000 Getting in front of that crowd of the 5,000, 10,000, 20,000.

01:07:47.000 You can't buy it.

01:07:49.000 I've tried.

01:07:51.000 You just cannot buy it anyway.

01:07:53.000 Do you worry about being in it past your prime or do you think that you'll know when it's time to stop?

01:08:02.000 I retired three years ago.

01:08:05.000 Did you?

01:08:05.000 And then I thought, I thought, I'll go in on top.

01:08:08.000 I've had, I was on a five or six fight winning streak.

01:08:12.000 But then in six months, it was driving me insane.

01:08:15.000 Just that not being that, the famous guy anymore, not being in the magazines, not being on TV, not people coming up and not giving that recognition anymore.

01:08:23.000 And then I came back and I went on another five fight winning streak.

01:08:27.000 And it was so good to be back amongst the mix and to be in front of that crowd again.

01:08:34.000 I understand why people can't give it up and they keep coming back out of retirement because it is the most exciting thing that you could possibly do on earth is to stand in front of someone and try and knock each other out.

01:08:46.000 When you're done, do you think that you will become a trainer?

01:08:49.000 I mean, do you think you already have a gym?

01:08:52.000 I've got my gym for the last 15 years, and I've been lucky enough to tour the world doing seminars and teaching, which I get a kick out of.

01:08:58.000 But yeah, it's not fighting.

01:09:00.000 It's not punching on me.

01:09:02.000 Do you ever think you would run a gym in Thailand?

01:09:05.000 No.

01:09:05.000 No?

01:09:06.000 That'd be a disrespect to the Thais. 0.98

01:09:06.000 No. 0.98

01:09:07.000 The Thais are so good, and they have a Western that come in.

01:09:09.000 It would be a disrespect?

01:09:10.000 I believe so.

01:09:11.000 Even calling myself crew.

01:09:11.000 Really?

01:09:12.000 I cringe when people call me a crew.

01:09:15.000 Really?

01:09:15.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:09:16.000 Why is that?

01:09:17.000 Because I'm not a Thai, and I don't deserve that honor of being called a crew.

01:09:21.000 I'm...

01:09:22.000 I'm a white guy trying to be the best possible version of a Thai person.

01:09:26.000 That's very interesting because Americans use that term all the time.

01:09:30.000 Like, crew Mark Delagrate is a good example.

01:09:33.000 He's my friend Mark Delagrate.

01:09:34.000 Yeah, I know Mark.

01:09:35.000 And then so many people that I've met that I know I don't respect and I call someone on crew, I'll call them the crew crew Mark or crew this.

01:09:41.000 I'm going to cover my t-shirt up now.

01:09:44.000 What does it say?

01:09:45.000 Crew Rhino?

01:09:46.000 What does crew Rhino mean?

01:09:48.000 Crew is teacher.

01:09:50.000 I know what that means, but why does it say Crew Rhino?

01:09:51.000 Oh, it's just my fight name.

01:09:53.000 Oh, how dare you?

01:09:54.000 I was literally just putting my jacket on there.

01:09:56.000 I was like, oh my god, why did he say that?

01:10:01.000 So, the term crew is like a deep term of deep respect in Thailand.

01:10:08.000 I've spent five years there.

01:10:09.000 I've been a monk.

01:10:10.000 I've done my whole business.

01:10:12.000 You've been a monk?

01:10:13.000 Yeah, I was a monk for seven days.

01:10:14.000 I went to Thailand.

01:10:15.000 Oh, that's a long time.

01:10:16.000 Lived in...

01:10:17.000 Every Thai male has to be a monk once in their life. 0.99

01:10:20.000 So even if it's seven days, you're still a monk.

01:10:22.000 Really?

01:10:23.000 Every Thai what? 0.98

01:10:24.000 Every Thai male has to be a monk. 1.00

01:10:25.000 Oh, Thai male. 1.00

01:10:26.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:10:26.000 Really?

01:10:27.000 Yes.

01:10:28.000 You have to be a monk?

01:10:29.000 For how long?

01:10:30.000 You can do seven days, a month, three months, six months, one year, two years.

01:10:35.000 But whatever you commit to, you must stay there for that amount of time.

01:10:37.000 You can't give in.

01:10:40.000 So you were a monk for seven days?

01:10:43.000 Yes.

01:10:44.000 I had all my possessions taken away.

01:10:46.000 I had my head shaved, the eyebrows shaved.

01:10:48.000 Your eyebrows shaved?

01:10:48.000 I lived in the toilet.

01:10:49.000 Yeah, they shave your eyebrows too.

01:10:50.000 Why do they shave your eyebrows?

01:10:51.000 To make you look like a monk.

01:10:53.000 What about...

01:10:55.000 What about other parts of your body?

01:10:56.000 Do you shave your legs?

01:10:57.000 No, no.

01:10:58.000 So you have this bowl and then every morning you walk this track and then there's Thai people on the side of the road giving you offerings.

01:11:05.000 So they give you rice, they give you meat, they give you this, they give you that.

01:11:08.000 And then you say a chant to them and that's helped to give them good karma for either that day or that week or maybe in a future life. 0.98

01:11:16.000 And then every morning we had a blind lady, and her sister would come out, hold her hand, put the spoon into her bowl, would say this chant, and it just was so special that every day we said this thing to her to help her have this good energy because life must be shit, 0.99

01:11:31.000 not being able to see. 0.95

01:11:33.000 And it just meant so much for us coming around.

01:11:35.000 And then every day we had Buddhist studies, and then they were saying how the Buddhist is the oldest religion out of everything.

01:11:42.000 It was 500 years older than Christianity, which is a few hundred years older again than a Muslim. 1.00

01:11:53.000 And then they took everything.

01:11:54.000 There's five main things with Buddhism.

01:11:57.000 Don't kill, don't steal, don't cheat, don't do drugs, don't lie.

01:12:02.000 And then Christianity took those and they added a few things to them as well.

01:12:07.000 But the best thing about Buddhism, there's no supernatural guy.

01:12:11.000 It's just an old prince that was stuck in a kingdom and then he didn't see the real outside world, didn't see poor people, didn't see sickness.

01:12:19.000 And then one day he went out of the kingdom and he realized that his whole life was a lie.

01:12:25.000 So he went out into the forest and started doing meditation, and that's when all these different things come in, different aspects.

01:12:34.000 And then from the meditation, that's when he made these five basic principles.

01:12:38.000 If you don't drink, you're not going to tell lies, and you're not going to get in trouble, and you're not going to kill anybody.

01:12:44.000 So if you stay away from those things, life should be okay.

01:12:47.000 That's hilarious.

01:12:48.000 That guy's so incorrect. 1.00

01:12:50.000 There's a lot of people that don't drink that are full of shit. 1.00

01:12:53.000 So, yeah, and if you don't screw your neighbor or you don't steal nothing, you don't have to... 1.00

01:12:53.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:12:59.000 Yeah, so all these basic...

01:13:01.000 Just easy stuff.

01:13:02.000 Just the idea of doing good behavior and being a good person, keeping your karma clean.

01:13:07.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:13:08.000 So, did you have a desire to do it for longer than seven days, or did you do it just because you lived in Thailand and you did it out of respect?

01:13:14.000 My Thai sponsor, his two boys were doing it, and they said, they're going for seven days.

01:13:18.000 He said, you've done everything Thai.

01:13:18.000 Do you want to join them?

01:13:20.000 You live like a Thai. 1.00

01:13:20.000 You speak Thai. 1.00

01:13:21.000 You fight like a Thai. 1.00

01:13:22.000 The only thing you haven't done is being a monk.

01:13:24.000 And then once you've done the monk, you're the complete circle.

01:13:26.000 You're the white version of one of them. 0.99

01:13:29.000 Yeah, it was amazing.

01:13:29.000 Wow.

01:13:31.000 It was so cool.

01:13:32.000 So when you went there, you'd shave your eyebrows, you'd shave your head, they'd give you a bowl, and then what do you do during the day?

01:13:39.000 What is the day spent doing?

01:13:41.000 So after we have breakfast in the morning, we do Buddhist studies for about an hour, two hours after that, and then we're either sweeping around the temple, keeping everything clean, and then afternoon we do Buddhist studies again for another hour or a half and two hours, and then we sleep in the temple and try not to get attacked by ghosts.

01:13:59.000 Yeah, the ghosts were scary.

01:14:02.000 Yeah, Thailand, the ghosts are so full on.

01:14:05.000 They really have this thing where they really believe in them.

01:14:07.000 So the ghosts have more of a tendency of showing themselves or coming to you in dream form.

01:14:13.000 And then it's so realistic.

01:14:15.000 It was life-changing. 0.99

01:14:16.000 I had a few different dreams where I came out of the temple thinking, fuck, I'm changing the way that I do things from now here on in. 0.97

01:14:23.000 Why is that? 0.95

01:14:24.000 Just making me a better person for just basic things.

01:14:29.000 The ghosts were making you a better person?

01:14:31.000 Yeah.

01:14:32.000 Yeah, they just give you deep inner thoughts while you're dreaming.

01:14:36.000 And you wake up, you think that it was real life, but it was...

01:14:38.000 Yeah, it's hard to explain.

01:14:40.000 No, please do.

01:14:41.000 So, you saw ghosts as well?

01:14:45.000 I used to get attacked about three or four times a week.

01:14:48.000 They call it a PM. So, have you ever heard of sleep paralysis?

01:14:53.000 So in Thailand, they believe it's a ghost sitting on your chest.

01:14:53.000 Yes.

01:14:57.000 And then if the ghost doesn't like you, the ghost puts his hand across your mouth and nose and suffocates you in your dream, in your sleep.

01:15:02.000 And that's why you die in your sleep.

01:15:05.000 They're wrong though.

01:15:06.000 Do you know that? 0.99

01:15:08.000 It's not fucking ghosts. 0.99

01:15:08.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:15:09.000 So when I told the Thais, I had this crazy dream last night.

01:15:13.000 I felt like I was getting held to the floor.

01:15:15.000 I couldn't move.

01:15:16.000 And they said, oh, that's just a PM. So what's that mean?

01:15:18.000 Oh, it's just a ghost sitting on your chest.

01:15:20.000 Oh, no worries.

01:15:21.000 That makes me feel better. 1.00

01:15:22.000 Ghost trying to fucking kill you. 1.00

01:15:23.000 It's so crazy that they would be like, no worries. 1.00

01:15:26.000 And then you say I'm sleeping right beside someone and then the ghost would sit on your chest.

01:15:30.000 You want to scream.

01:15:31.000 You want to reach your hand out so someone would wake you up, but you're just stuck.

01:15:35.000 There's nothing you can do, and the harder you try and scream, the more you get stuck to the floor.

01:15:39.000 So this would happen on a consistent basis?

01:15:40.000 Four or five times a week.

01:15:42.000 How old were you at the time?

01:15:43.000 19. 19. 19 to 23. So, if I had to guess, you're a young man, you're in Thailand for the first time, you're experiencing this incredible culture shock, you're also experiencing the anxiety of preparing for fights, this whole new world that you're living in.

01:15:59.000 And you probably have a lot of questions and doubts about life and, you know, there's anxiety, a lot of built-up stuff.

01:16:05.000 And then you're hanging around a bunch of people that are telling you that ghosts are trying to kill you.

01:16:09.000 Yeah.

01:16:09.000 And so you're experiencing these ghosts, too.

01:16:13.000 Now, did you see anything?

01:16:13.000 Regularly.

01:16:15.000 Did you physically see something?

01:16:16.000 What did you see?

01:16:16.000 Yes.

01:16:17.000 One night, I was laying in bed, and then one of those ones where the eyes were closed, it had been about five minutes, and I heard the...

01:16:24.000 There was only me in the room at the time, too, so I heard the fly screen open.

01:16:27.000 Boom! 0.99

01:16:29.000 I'm thinking...

01:16:29.000 And I heard footsteps.

01:16:31.000 Immediately think ghosts.

01:16:33.000 No, I'm thinking, hurry up and close the door before the mosquitoes come in.

01:16:36.000 And I'm waiting, waiting, waiting.

01:16:37.000 No one's going to close the door.

01:16:38.000 I roll over my eyes and there's this person standing at the door.

01:16:41.000 And then he looks at me.

01:16:43.000 And then he turns.

01:16:44.000 And I hear him walking down the steps. 1.00

01:16:46.000 Motherfucker, you didn't close the door. 1.00

01:16:47.000 Mosquitoes. 1.00

01:16:48.000 So I get up.

01:16:49.000 I'm awake.

01:16:50.000 I close the door.

01:16:50.000 I get up.

01:16:51.000 Go back to sleep.

01:16:53.000 Close my eyes.

01:16:54.000 Within another couple of minutes, the door opens again.

01:16:57.000 Bang! 1.00

01:16:59.000 No one's closing the door.

01:17:00.000 No footsteps this time.

01:17:01.000 I look over.

01:17:02.000 There's a cat sitting at the door.

01:17:03.000 And it jumps up on the shelf and jumps out the window. 1.00

01:17:06.000 I think, fuck. 0.99

01:17:07.000 So this is the second time I get up. 1.00

01:17:08.000 I close the door.

01:17:10.000 This time I go back to sleep.

01:17:12.000 The next morning I go and see the Thai train.

01:17:14.000 I think, I swear your brother was here last night.

01:17:17.000 He must have come to the room, but he couldn't.

01:17:19.000 I don't know.

01:17:19.000 He left the door open.

01:17:20.000 I got up.

01:17:20.000 He said, no, no, he's not here.

01:17:21.000 He's in Chiang Mai.

01:17:22.000 He's about a 12-hour drive away.

01:17:24.000 He was here 100%.

01:17:24.000 I said, no, no, I've seen him.

01:17:26.000 He said, no, watch your ring.

01:17:28.000 He's like, hey, hey, brother, where you at? 1.00

01:17:30.000 He's like, oh, shit. 1.00

01:17:33.000 So, yeah, that was my seeing the ghost firsthand. 1.00

01:17:38.000 The ghost of a dude who's alive and lives 12 hours away?

01:17:42.000 Yeah, sorry.

01:17:43.000 I wish I was there to talk you through that.

01:17:44.000 It's really common in Thailand.

01:17:46.000 This is not about me.

01:17:47.000 It's all about John.

01:17:48.000 But it happened to me a lot as well.

01:17:50.000 And I think it's because we're around the Thais as well.

01:17:53.000 So the suggestion, the power of suggestion, the culture?

01:17:56.000 Do you know about the ghost houses?

01:17:58.000 Ghost houses?

01:17:59.000 Every Thai house has a ghost house.

01:18:01.000 So say your house looks this nice, and they have a little house in front of their house, and they decorate it more so it's more attractive for the ghost to live in there.

01:18:08.000 This is a true story.

01:18:10.000 And then they put food, little bits of rice, little bits of drink, and then little bits of whiskey sometimes.

01:18:15.000 And then before you fight, you pray to the ghost house that the ghost will hopefully give you good inner strength for when you go into battle.

01:18:21.000 Well, it's easy to ridicule.

01:18:23.000 It's easy to ridicule and it's easy to make fun of, but I think that when you look at things like the power of suggestion and the placebo effect, what that means, what it really means is that the mind has incredible capabilities.

01:18:35.000 The mind has the ability to heal you if you're sick.

01:18:38.000 The mind has the ability to do all sorts of things that you think you need a drug or medication to fix.

01:18:45.000 I mean, that's, the mind is amazing.

01:18:47.000 And if you're around a bunch of people that really believe These things, your mind is almost preparing you for these things being real.

01:18:55.000 I don't know if ghosts are real or if they're not real.

01:18:58.000 I've never experienced it.

01:18:59.000 But everyone I know that has, like, studied it, there's two types of people.

01:19:05.000 There's either, and maybe I haven't met enough of them, but there's charlatans who, like, you know, they're just the guys who do those shows where they've got, like, night vision, they're in a basement somewhere, and they're like, did you hear that?

01:19:15.000 And then they cut to commercial. 0.99

01:19:17.000 You know, never hear shit like those ghost hunting shows like you want to talk about a show like a genre with the least amount of success It's like it might be ghost hunting shows those motherfuckers have never seen a ghost like there's never a goat like you see it you go. 0.99

01:19:31.000 That's a ghost I got held down in Australia once. 1.00

01:19:31.000 Oh shit. 1.00

01:19:35.000 Held down? 1.00

01:19:35.000 So my Thai trainer came, and then I had him out for Australia for a couple months. 1.00

01:19:40.000 So he's got his Buddhas in his hand.

01:19:42.000 He's saying this big prayer before sleep.

01:19:44.000 I said, oh, don't be worried.

01:19:46.000 We're not in Thailand now.

01:19:47.000 There's no ghosts here.

01:19:48.000 We're sweet.

01:19:49.000 So you got held down by a Thai ghost after you?

01:19:51.000 So I've gone into my room, and then it's one of those scenarios again where I'm just drifting off, and I hear the door open.

01:19:59.000 I'm thinking, oh, someone must be coming in to get something out of the room.

01:20:02.000 And then I hear footsteps.

01:20:04.000 And then, boom, I'm held down as hard as I can into the mattress, and I've got enough energy to open my eyes, and there was nothing there, but I could hear the breathing, the ha, ha.

01:20:18.000 And then I tried to relax.

01:20:19.000 I tried to relax.

01:20:20.000 I felt the pressure come off my chest.

01:20:22.000 And then as soon as it let me go, I grabbed my towel and my blanket and I went and slept in the Tyrus bedroom for two weeks on this floor because I was too petrified to sleep by myself for about two weeks.

01:20:33.000 I shitted myself so bad because I had my eyes and I could hear it.

01:20:38.000 Again, if I had to guess, one of the things that I would say is not only are you young and the power of suggestion, all these things are a factor, but also the fact that these things are happening to you while you're sleeping. 0.76

01:20:49.000 When you're sleeping, your mind produces all sorts of crazy psychedelic chemicals.

01:20:53.000 It's very possible that what you're experiencing is some semi-dream state.

01:20:57.000 And that in this semi-dream state, especially if you're convinced that ghosts are real, your brain starts, your imagination starts flooding your consciousness with all sorts of physical experiences, all sorts of physical sensations.

01:21:10.000 Or, ghosts are real.

01:21:11.000 That's possible, too.

01:21:12.000 I mean, I don't know.

01:21:13.000 I mean, I might be wrong.

01:21:14.000 It's just...

01:21:16.000 It's there's so much fuckery and ghosts You know when you when you look at the people that are telling you about them and the people that say that they've seen them It's just it's so it's such a weird subject. 0.70

01:21:27.000 It's a big big part of Thailand though Like you know work for the rescue team like we spoke about last time And it's actually quite nice hearing you say this stuff because I'm like, oh my god, I'm not crazy.

01:21:36.000 Like, one of my heroes, John White, had this too.

01:21:39.000 But, yeah, I mean, like, everyone I know in Thailand has had something, and they're so superstitious.

01:21:45.000 It's not even funny. 0.81

01:21:46.000 It's ridiculous how superstitious they are.

01:21:48.000 They believe the ghosts live in trees.

01:21:51.000 So when you chop a tree down and then build your house, the ghost comes with the house.

01:21:54.000 The ghost comes with the wood.

01:21:55.000 So then there's certain poles that might be a bit more crazy, more powerful. 1.00

01:22:02.000 Even the ring, the ring's made out of wood.

01:22:04.000 So we used to decorate the ring with ribbons and powder and perfume, and then we'd pray to the ring just before a fight because it helped get us fit for that six weeks, eight week prep.

01:22:15.000 And then we'd decorate with flowers, we'd buy flowers just the day before the fight to say, thank you for my preparation.

01:22:22.000 So just little, tied to traditions more so than anything, I guess.

01:22:27.000 Even if it's not true, like if...

01:22:30.000 I'm joking around, obviously.

01:22:32.000 I really don't know if ghosts are real.

01:22:33.000 But even if they're not real, there's something to be said for eliminating a certain amount of anxiety just by having this ritual, having this process that you go through in your mind where you believe you've appeased the ghosts.

01:22:46.000 So you believe that you will have good luck.

01:22:49.000 Definitely.

01:22:50.000 Yeah, you have good karma, you have good spirits with you.

01:22:52.000 I mean, if you believe in ghosts and you're worried about the unknown and you find a ritual that appeases that and then settles that fear, I mean, there's a benefit in that.

01:23:02.000 There's a benefit in a lot of crazy beliefs.

01:23:05.000 Even with the Ramoy before a fight.

01:23:08.000 So you're down there praying and you're thinking of the people of the past, the people in the present.

01:23:12.000 For people who don't know what you're talking about, explain what that means.

01:23:15.000 The pre-fight dance that we do in Thailand.

01:23:18.000 We should put up a video of that so people can see it. 0.92

01:23:21.000 It's pretty fucking cool.

01:23:22.000 And it doesn't exist in any other combat sport. 0.94

01:23:25.000 Most combat sports, the most you get is someone walks around and touches each corner of the ring and maybe bows or puts their hands up.

01:23:34.000 In Thailand, it's a live Thai band too, so they have a guy on the drums, a guy on the cymbals, a guy on the flute, and then while you're dancing, you might be 100,000 people there, and then you just turn it all off, and then you're just praying for your, asking permission from the earth,

01:23:50.000 the wind, the fire, the water, from God to give you all this inner strength.

01:23:57.000 Myself, I think for my mother, my father, my grandfathers, my grandmothers, Past, present, future, former trainers.

01:24:06.000 Every single person that helped you get to that present point in that particular second that you're thanking for helping you get right there in that time.

01:24:16.000 And then you take a big breath and all that energy just fills up your whole body.

01:24:20.000 And you get pins and needles in the hair stands on the back of your neck.

01:24:24.000 And then once you finish the dance, it feels like you're invincible.

01:24:28.000 Wow.

01:24:28.000 And these guys are doing it right now, and they have the traditional hand wraps.

01:24:34.000 We're starting to see that come back.

01:24:36.000 You're seeing a lot of bouts that are being made today with really hand wraps and no gloves.

01:24:42.000 Yeah, it's pretty hectic.

01:24:43.000 They do it once a year in Thailand forever.

01:24:46.000 They have Thailand versus Burma. 0.97

01:24:48.000 And they have two referees.

01:24:49.000 And then what happens?

01:24:50.000 You can only win by knockout or cut.

01:24:52.000 If it goes the distance, it's a draw.

01:24:54.000 No matter how much someone's winning, it's always a draw.

01:24:57.000 So you have to win by violence.

01:24:58.000 How many rounds?

01:25:00.000 Five.

01:25:00.000 Five rounds.

01:25:01.000 And you can't win by any other way, by knockout or cut.

01:25:01.000 Wow.

01:25:05.000 That's crazy.

01:25:05.000 It's brutal as well.

01:25:07.000 And then there's not many kicks on these, because you know you're wearing two weapons on your fists, so it's just hell for leather.

01:25:14.000 Technique goes out of the window.

01:25:15.000 Really?

01:25:15.000 So it's survival.

01:25:16.000 Well, weapons on your fists meaning that it's like rope, right?

01:25:21.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:25:21.000 Because those are not like traditional hand wraps where it's like soft and cushiony.

01:25:26.000 Yeah.

01:25:27.000 What is that?

01:25:28.000 Yeah, it's a proper rope.

01:25:29.000 And it goes all the way down the forearm too.

01:25:31.000 Why is that?

01:25:32.000 Is that like to protect you from kicks?

01:25:34.000 I'm not sure.

01:25:35.000 It's just traditional, I think.

01:25:36.000 Tell me a bit about the bedding with the Waikura as well.

01:25:39.000 Yeah, so a lot of ties will make judgment on who dances better also and who is more relaxed and who has a better...

01:25:49.000 Rhythm and style with their dance as well, so they can see who's...

01:25:54.000 If you're stiff and fucked up, or another guy is just flowing like a ballerina, then you go, ah, this guy's got this for sure. 0.71

01:26:01.000 And when you're watching this, like when they're doing this dance, is there a specific routine they follow, or are they just being... 0.98

01:26:08.000 Are they just going with the flow of things?

01:26:10.000 Some gyms have their own style.

01:26:13.000 The majority of the time, it's pretty much the same thing, but...

01:26:16.000 Yeah, different.

01:26:18.000 The way you're praying at the start, that's my biggest thing, is getting connected to the universe and trying to get good energy.

01:26:27.000 And then the rest of the stuff that they're doing now, it's more so of a limber.

01:26:30.000 So as you're going from rope to rope, you're warming up your body, you're stretching out the shoulders, you're stretching out your legs.

01:26:36.000 A guy explained to me once also that when he did it, he would relax because he was sort of performing in front of all these people as he was doing it and it helped him perform better in his fighting because it wasn't just like, are you ready?

01:26:49.000 Are you ready?

01:26:49.000 Go!

01:26:50.000 Like he'd already done something in front of all these people and then it sort of loosened him up.

01:26:56.000 Before I ever did commentary for the UFC, I got to commentate on one of Koban's fight.

01:27:02.000 Koban Laksam Toi- how do you say it?

01:27:05.000 He's in New York, I think.

01:27:06.000 Isn't he?

01:27:07.000 I believe so.

01:27:08.000 This was way back in the days, before 2002, which is when I started commentating for the UFC. I was the post-fight interview guy in like 97 to 98, and then I commentated from 2002 on.

01:27:20.000 In between then, I was working at, not working, I was working out at John Jock Machado's and me and Richard Norton.

01:27:29.000 You know, Rich, he's an Australian guy.

01:27:30.000 Martial arts guy.

01:27:30.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:27:31.000 We showed some stuff together.

01:27:32.000 Yeah, he and I did, we commentated on Koban's fight.

01:27:36.000 It was amazing.

01:27:37.000 It was amazing to see, like, a real Thai legend who's had who knows how many hundred fights.

01:27:42.000 You've got to get the Bangkok.

01:27:44.000 Bangkok's amazing.

01:27:45.000 I don't know.

01:27:46.000 Eventually.

01:27:46.000 Maybe they'll do a UFC out there.

01:27:48.000 But is UFC even legal there?

01:27:50.000 Cage fighting.

01:27:50.000 I think they've tried to ban it a couple of times.

01:27:52.000 I think the Thai's a little bit funny about the cage because it's taken away from their... 1.00

01:27:57.000 They don't want it taking over the sport of Muay Thai.

01:28:00.000 Like it's taken over every other country in the world.

01:28:00.000 Right.

01:28:02.000 It must have been an amazing experience for you just I mean what Just to go there as a young man as a teenager and just get immersed in this life It's so different than just like taking a Muay Thai class at a gym or even getting obsessed with Muay Thai in Australia or in America where you know You're working out all the time and you love Muay Thai but to be living there in Thailand the best part that I look back one upon is not just the The training and the fighting but the ghosts becoming a white tie and Oh,

01:28:33.000 white Thai.

01:28:33.000 Because I was the only Westerner.

01:28:35.000 I'd go months and months on end without seeing another white person.

01:28:38.000 Wow.

01:28:39.000 So I was like the freak, if you will.

01:28:41.000 And then I'd go to the shops and every single person would stare at me and I'd love it.

01:28:45.000 And then I could speak Thai, so I'd start talking to them and they'd freak out. 1.00

01:28:48.000 And then I'd start going to the nightclubs and, for instance, sometimes I'd have a live band and then I'd go up to the band and say, hey, do you know this song?

01:28:58.000 And then they'd give me the microphone and I'd sing Thai songs to the crowd and the crowd would bounce.

01:29:04.000 Everyone's like dancing and stuff.

01:29:06.000 That's crazy.

01:29:07.000 It was awesome.

01:29:08.000 It was such a good buzz to live like one of them.

01:29:14.000 That sounds insane.

01:29:16.000 It was awesome.

01:29:16.000 It was so cool.

01:29:17.000 Wow, this must have been such a whole new universe.

01:29:21.000 Yeah, you come back to Australia and you just blend in with everyone else and then you go back to Thailand and you're back to being that special person in the suburb again.

01:29:30.000 Wow.

01:29:30.000 And then I used to run on the road and everyone used to flash their lights at me and toot their horn because I was the fighter kid, the Aussie guy.

01:29:37.000 So I was special.

01:29:39.000 It was really amazing.

01:29:40.000 So you really enjoyed that aspect of it, just being unique?

01:29:43.000 Yeah, getting in a taxi and talking to either the taxi driver.

01:29:46.000 I could just have a conversation for wherever I was going and just talking about...

01:29:50.000 Everything would be about Motoi, of course, but wherever I went, it was just so cool.

01:29:55.000 In a sense, is that place like your second home?

01:29:58.000 I don't go there anymore now.

01:30:00.000 The last time I went there was probably three or four years ago when I fought Yotsinglai, but yeah... 1.00

01:30:07.000 Because now the fights are so hard for such little money.

01:30:10.000 Like if I went back now, I'd be lucky to make $1,000 a fight.

01:30:13.000 I'm better off fighting Westerners and I can make 10 times the amount of money for an easier fight, if that makes sense. 1.00

01:30:19.000 It's just amazing that you get paid that low amount to fight in front of 100,000 people.

01:30:25.000 If I live there, the currency is quite high.

01:30:28.000 But then as soon as you transfer that over to Australia, then you can't even buy McDonald's.

01:30:33.000 Talk about taxis.

01:30:34.000 I was actually in a taxi, oh God, about six, seven years ago.

01:30:37.000 He goes, oh, what are you doing here in Thailand?

01:30:39.000 I'm like, yeah, I'm doing Muay Thai.

01:30:41.000 He goes, oh, you know Raymond Decker?

01:30:42.000 I'm like, yeah, I know Raymond Decker.

01:30:43.000 He goes, where are you from?

01:30:44.000 He goes, oh, you know John Wayne Park?

01:30:44.000 I'm like, Australia.

01:30:46.000 I'm like, no shit. 0.99

01:30:48.000 That's awesome. 0.99

01:30:49.000 That was a long time ago.

01:30:50.000 How long did it take you to learn the language?

01:30:53.000 Three months before I could hold up a conversation.

01:30:55.000 So I remember the very first...

01:30:58.000 I used to learn, okay, eat, kin, drink, dum nam, and then I got my first sentence.

01:31:05.000 I still remember it.

01:31:07.000 They said, okay, we're going to send you to the shop.

01:31:09.000 We want you to say, I would like one bag of ice.

01:31:12.000 Pom tong gan nam kang nung tung. 0.94

01:31:15.000 So as I walked down the street, in my head, and then from there, I worked, okay, if instead of saying ice, and then I started getting sentences,

01:31:31.000 and then I'd start asking questions, okay, what's this?

01:31:33.000 What's that?

01:31:34.000 What's this?

01:31:35.000 And then before I knew it, all of a sudden I was one of them.

01:31:39.000 Wow.

01:31:39.000 I can't read or write, but I could start watching the soap operas on the TV. I could watch the news.

01:31:45.000 I started picking up the songs.

01:31:47.000 Now the songs had meanings besides just noise.

01:31:50.000 Right.

01:31:51.000 That's got to be bizarre when it sort of starts revealing itself to you.

01:31:55.000 And then I started thinking Thai.

01:31:56.000 I was there for that long.

01:31:57.000 I stopped thinking English, and I started thinking in Thai.

01:32:01.000 That's when it got scary because I came back to Australia and I start my sentences in English and I finish them in Thai, but I wouldn't know that I was finishing them in Thai.

01:32:09.000 And people were looking at me going, what the hell did you just say?

01:32:12.000 And then I started to speak in pidgin because the Thai, I started, me hungry?

01:32:18.000 Me thirsty?

01:32:20.000 I was doing that to Westerners and I was like, what am I doing? 0.99

01:32:23.000 But it was just normal, because that's the way I lived for so long.

01:32:26.000 Wow, just trying to figure out how to readjust.

01:32:28.000 Yeah, yeah, it took a while.

01:32:30.000 Took a while.

01:32:30.000 That's so bizarre.

01:32:32.000 It was...

01:32:32.000 It was cool.

01:32:33.000 That's fascinating that you did it without any books.

01:32:36.000 No, and there's no internet.

01:32:37.000 So if I wanted to talk to mum, I'd have to write a letter.

01:32:40.000 It would take seven days to get to Australia, and then she would reply, so it'd be a seven-day return.

01:32:44.000 So it was a two-week waiting period between no Facebook, no Google, no forums.

01:32:50.000 So she had no idea if you were okay.

01:32:54.000 Every now and again she might ring for my birthday or ring for a special occasion or if someone passed away, hey, bad news.

01:33:00.000 If the phone rang and it was for me, it'd be either really good news or really bad.

01:33:05.000 Did you have any desire to try to learn how to write it or how to read it?

01:33:09.000 I tried, but there's like 27 vowels and...

01:33:14.000 If you put one letter at the start of a word, it's a completely different noise if you put an end of a word.

01:33:19.000 And it's all tones.

01:33:20.000 So one word means five things.

01:33:22.000 So the word kau means rice, white, mountain, news, ni.

01:33:28.000 So if you say it in a different tone, I'd like to have a plate of ni's. 0.67

01:33:34.000 What are the different ways to say it?

01:33:36.000 Kau.

01:33:37.000 Kau.

01:33:38.000 Kau.

01:33:40.000 And I forget that one.

01:33:41.000 Kau.

01:33:42.000 Wow.

01:33:43.000 And then, yeah, it's all tone, so the whole time you're talking, it's almost like you're singing.

01:33:48.000 Wow, Asian languages are so fascinating to me.

01:33:51.000 But a lot of the words are the same words, like the word cow, for instance, cow, or luck.

01:33:56.000 So it's the same word, just a different meaning.

01:33:58.000 So I try and learn five words a day.

01:34:00.000 I go to bed, lay on my pillow.

01:34:03.000 All right, got it.

01:34:04.000 Next day, okay, now five new more things.

01:34:06.000 Okay, doop, doop, doop, doop.

01:34:08.000 You can only kind of keep those things in your head if you're practicing it on a regular basis, right? 0.96

01:34:14.000 Yeah, and because I live with kids as well, there was kids in the camp, and then you could joke around with them, and if you said something wrong, they'd laugh and go, no, stupid, you say it like this, but if you said it to an adult, you'd feel a little bit sort of shy and embarrassed, but to a kid, you just slap them in the back of the head, and they don't laugh anymore. 0.94

01:34:34.000 Child Beating by John Wayne Parr. 0.64

01:34:35.000 This is how you learn a language properly.

01:34:37.000 Speaking of beatings, Thailand. 0.99

01:34:39.000 So back there, they still beat their boxers.

01:34:46.000 No one looks down upon it.

01:34:48.000 So if they're not training hard, it's nothing for them to get a slap across the face or a kick in the leg or a punch in the mouth.

01:34:56.000 Yeah, they want their boxers to exceed everything else, so the child cruelty is still pretty normal.

01:35:03.000 So child cruelty meaning, that's one thing that maybe people aren't aware of, they start fighting very young. 0.99

01:35:09.000 Yeah, so if you fight and you're afraid of your opponent, they have a thing called round six, and then that might include you getting bashed by one of the trainers after you get home, and then it's like, okay, Round six, meaning you fight five rounds, and then you come back and they kick your ass. 1.00

01:35:26.000 And then you get your ass kicked. 0.99

01:35:27.000 And then it's like, what are you going to be scared of? 1.00

01:35:28.000 Are you going to be scared of the trainer kicking your ass when you get back? 0.98

01:35:30.000 Or are you going to be scared of your opponent, someone your size and weight with rules? 0.99

01:35:33.000 Or are you going to be scared of me?

01:35:35.000 So they get a lot more scared of the round six than they do their opponents.

01:35:38.000 And then they turn and they'll be men very fast.

01:35:42.000 Wow.

01:35:42.000 That's crazy.

01:35:43.000 They used to make kids walk home.

01:35:45.000 I've tried to pick up a kid that I knew from my camp a couple of years back and the trainer shouted at me, forgive me, lift home.

01:35:51.000 I got in a lot of trouble with the camp because he lost and he had no heart and they just said, no, he's got to walk home.

01:35:55.000 It was like a 30 minute drive.

01:35:58.000 I've never known like a walk.

01:36:00.000 It's like one in the morning.

01:36:01.000 It's weird because they don't get a chance or like they don't get a choice rather.

01:36:05.000 Whereas like if you have a young kid and they really aspire, there's some young kids that they aspire to fight at a very young age and that's what they're driven to.

01:36:13.000 These kids, a lot of them don't get a chance to decide.

01:36:16.000 They're just kind of pushed into these camps.

01:36:18.000 Imagine the average salary is $500 a week.

01:36:23.000 If you're a famous boxer, you might make $5,000 a week.

01:36:27.000 So there's this drive that if I can be just a normal Joe Bloggs cooking rice on the side of the road, or if I'm a famous boxer, all of a sudden I could be the next Thai version of Floyd Mayweather.

01:36:38.000 Like Sanchai or Yotsin Klai or Borkha or somebody.

01:36:41.000 So there is a chance to get out of poverty through fighting.

01:36:46.000 A guy like Yotsin Klai, how much does that guy make?

01:36:49.000 What's the equivalent American? 0.98

01:36:52.000 Not money, but what it's worth in Thailand.

01:36:58.000 He's a rockstar.

01:37:00.000 He has a nice house, nice cars.

01:37:02.000 Who knows?

01:37:03.000 With Thais, I don't know about that generation, but most Thai fighters I've known over the years, They don't know how to spend the money. 1.00

01:37:10.000 There was a fighter, I think he fought here in America the other day, and I know him very well since I was young.

01:37:15.000 I'm not going to say his name.

01:37:16.000 He's fought in America.

01:37:20.000 He'd be making, let's say, $5,000 a fight.

01:37:23.000 That's a lot of money in Thailand.

01:37:25.000 And he still lives in just a little...

01:37:27.000 Who knows what they do with the money?

01:37:29.000 You give them the camp 50%, you might send your mum and dad 30%, and then you just live off that 20% until your next fight.

01:37:36.000 And then you might drink that.

01:37:37.000 You might drink it and smoke it.

01:37:38.000 So when you say he's a rock star, he's not really a rock star.

01:37:42.000 I mean, he's just famous.

01:37:43.000 He's comfortable for now.

01:37:45.000 So who's making all the money over there?

01:37:47.000 The promoters.

01:37:48.000 The camps.

01:37:49.000 Promoters.

01:37:49.000 Yeah.

01:37:50.000 And the gambling is fascinating.

01:37:52.000 That's a huge aspect of it.

01:37:54.000 It's so good.

01:37:55.000 So good.

01:37:56.000 You love it.

01:37:58.000 Everyone's their own bookmaker.

01:38:00.000 So you're watching two fights.

01:38:01.000 You're watching red and blue.

01:38:02.000 And then after the first round, it might be two for one for the red.

01:38:06.000 And then he's still winning.

01:38:08.000 Round three, it might be five for one.

01:38:10.000 Five for one.

01:38:11.000 What does that mean?

01:38:11.000 So if you bet 100 baht.

01:38:14.000 Oh, five for one odds.

01:38:15.000 Yeah, five for one odds.

01:38:16.000 And then round four, all of a sudden, blue starts dominating.

01:38:20.000 And then the odds start changing.

01:38:22.000 But you've already locked in your five for one this way.

01:38:26.000 Who is deciding all this stuff?

01:38:29.000 Everybody's their own bookmaker.

01:38:30.000 So you're in the crowd.

01:38:31.000 He's offering four for one, but this guy's offering five for one.

01:38:34.000 I'm going to go with him. 1.00

01:38:35.000 I'm going to kick this guy's ass. 1.00

01:38:37.000 And then once you've got your bed on, your lock eyes, yep, locked on, done. 1.00

01:38:42.000 And then after the fight's done, you walk over.

01:38:43.000 Yep, got the money.

01:38:44.000 Cheers, mate.

01:38:45.000 Wow, that's interesting.

01:38:45.000 Thank you.

01:38:46.000 So it's completely unorganized.

01:38:48.000 Yeah, it's chaos.

01:38:49.000 It's amazing.

01:38:50.000 It's controlled chaos.

01:38:52.000 That sounds fascinating.

01:38:53.000 It's brilliant.

01:38:55.000 Sort of brilliant.

01:38:56.000 Because it's like going to the horse races.

01:38:58.000 Nobody cares about the fights.

01:38:59.000 Who cares who wins?

01:39:00.000 You're seeing crazy matches, and then once you've got your bet on too, now you're cheering this guy home like the last final couple hundred meters for a horse race.

01:39:09.000 Go! 0.95

01:39:10.000 Go! 0.95

01:39:11.000 Kick! 0.98

01:39:11.000 And then they hear the crowd, boo! 0.98

01:39:13.000 And it just raises after every kick, every punch, and then...

01:39:16.000 They have a thing called a money injection.

01:39:20.000 So say you're losing the first three rounds, and then they call it a chi dia.

01:39:25.000 So I'll give you 50,000 baht bonus.

01:39:29.000 End of round four, tell him I'll give him 50,000 baht bonus if he wins by knockout.

01:39:33.000 And then, hey, you want another 50,000?

01:39:34.000 Hold on a second.

01:39:35.000 What happened?

01:39:36.000 That thing froze again?

01:39:38.000 Yeah.

01:39:38.000 Did you call them after the last time it froze?

01:39:40.000 I looked.

01:39:40.000 I'll call them.

01:39:41.000 Call them. 1.00

01:39:42.000 This is bullshit. 1.00

01:39:43.000 This is two out of ten podcasts. 0.99

01:39:45.000 That thing's crashed on us.

01:39:47.000 Sorry.

01:39:48.000 We'll get the audio of it.

01:39:50.000 We'll sync it all up.

01:39:51.000 The Ustream is down.

01:39:52.000 Yep.

01:39:54.000 I'm sorry.

01:39:55.000 I don't mean to interrupt.

01:39:56.000 So they're screaming, cheering.

01:39:58.000 50,000 baht bonus.

01:39:59.000 So if you're losing and then someone says, I'll give you 50,000 if you win by knockout this next round, all of a sudden you're tired, you're losing, and then 50,000.

01:40:09.000 Yeah, all of a sudden you've got this second win and you want to go out there and hurt him and then you knock him out and then the guy comes up and he's your 50,000.

01:40:16.000 I've just made 200,000.

01:40:17.000 You can have 50,000 of it.

01:40:19.000 That's incredible.

01:40:21.000 So when this is all going on, that's also why the ties tend to fight slowly in the first round.

01:40:27.000 The first round, they kind of pace themselves.

01:40:30.000 Yeah, so it's almost like you want to lose the first round.

01:40:34.000 So the odds go to the favor of the other corner.

01:40:37.000 You put the money on your guy.

01:40:39.000 You might get your three for one or let's just ten for one.

01:40:43.000 He's losing bad.

01:40:44.000 He's getting his bash.

01:40:45.000 There's no way he can come back.

01:40:46.000 And then...

01:40:46.000 Boom.

01:40:47.000 Once he gets the red light from the trainer, and then he's on full steam ahead, boom.

01:40:52.000 Knocks the other guy out, and you've just won.

01:40:53.000 It's so strange that the culture of fighting, like the sport, the art itself, is so influenced by gambling.

01:41:02.000 And then what you have now is, well, forever, the Marvel influence.

01:41:07.000 So they might say, look, you're earning 50,000 baht for a normal fight.

01:41:11.000 We'll give you 300,000 fight if you happen to lay down round two by a head kick. 0.63

01:41:17.000 Really?

01:41:18.000 So you might be, today, you're unbelievable.

01:41:23.000 And then the mafia might come along and say, okay, do this.

01:41:26.000 And then next round, you don't know how to hold your hands up. 0.97

01:41:29.000 And then you get a head kick.

01:41:30.000 And then the referee will go, stop, stop, stop.

01:41:32.000 Mate, I've seen you fight 400 times.

01:41:34.000 You're a legend.

01:41:35.000 There's no way no one you don't know how to throw a jab.

01:41:37.000 This fight is now considered a no contest.

01:41:40.000 This will go to the Tribunal, and you're looking at six months.

01:41:44.000 And that could be the worst possible thing for any Thai boxing camp, because now you've brought dishonesty and distrust, and your camp's name is now Mud.

01:41:53.000 Did you ever get offers?

01:41:54.000 Hold on.

01:41:55.000 Does that happen all the time?

01:41:57.000 All the time.

01:41:58.000 At least five, six, seven times a week.

01:42:02.000 Five, six, seven times a week.

01:42:04.000 How many times has that happened to you?

01:42:06.000 To me, I've never been offered money because they know I'm Wester.

01:42:08.000 So they know they can walk over me if they try.

01:42:10.000 But I've seen it happen on TV so many times.

01:42:14.000 They know they can walk over you?

01:42:16.000 Just a Westerner. 0.76

01:42:16.000 What do you mean? 0.76

01:42:18.000 If they know I'm beatable.

01:42:20.000 Where you've got two, there's so many Thais in Thailand that there's so many guys in the waiting line that know they can, like Yod-Sing-Guys, that haven't got a name that is just machines. 1.00

01:42:32.000 It's hard to say.

01:42:33.000 Yeah, I know I'm not elite, that I'm never going to be beaten.

01:42:37.000 So the Thais just believe they can just walk over. 1.00

01:42:40.000 So because you're a Westerner, they believe that they can beat you so they don't offer you bribes to lose.

01:42:46.000 I've never been offered a bribe, no.

01:42:47.000 Because a guy like Yodson Klai, who's such a heavily favoured fighter, that would be the type of guy that they would try to influence.

01:42:54.000 Yeah, they'd probably ask Yodson Klai to lay down before they'd ask me because he's such a favourite to win.

01:43:00.000 So I'd be the long shot.

01:43:01.000 And then if I won, all of a sudden, yeah, it's crazy.

01:43:05.000 So for fighters like that, is it super critical to be involved in a very influential camp so that you don't get asked to lay down?

01:43:13.000 Yeah, if you're one of the big gyms, let's pretend TriStar, and all of a sudden George goes down from fighting someone that he shouldn't, and then all of a sudden TriStar, and I don't want to put TriStar guys on my shows anymore.

01:43:27.000 Because they're obviously mafia influence, so we don't want to deal with them anymore.

01:43:33.000 Wow.

01:43:34.000 The system over there is so full on.

01:43:34.000 Yeah, it's crazy.

01:43:38.000 That's so crazy that they have to think about that as well as fighting the best fighters in the world in Muay Thai.

01:43:46.000 Yeah.

01:43:46.000 And then they have to worry about being influenced by gambling and by the mafia.

01:43:51.000 Yeah.

01:43:52.000 Without saying any names or any camps, I know of a camp in Thailand that two of the guys did happen to lay down and brought disrespect to the camp, and they might have passed away.

01:44:06.000 And then for a certain amount of money to the Thai police, that file goes missing.

01:44:13.000 And then it's just a warning to the other boxers that it's not a good idea to lay down from my gym, otherwise you could also go missing.

01:44:22.000 Wow.

01:44:23.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:44:24.000 And I'm not talking rubbish either.

01:44:27.000 That's true stories.

01:44:28.000 Oh, I'm sure.

01:44:29.000 I mean, it only makes sense if you're talking about that amount of money.

01:44:32.000 Could you imagine?

01:44:33.000 The trainer's invested so much money in these fighters.

01:44:35.000 He's looked after them.

01:44:35.000 He's fed them.

01:44:36.000 He's given places to sleep.

01:44:37.000 And then they discredit him by doing that to fill their own pockets. 1.00

01:44:41.000 And they go, oh, fuck you. 1.00

01:44:43.000 I'll teach you a lesson, one you'll never forget. 1.00

01:44:46.000 Yeah.

01:44:46.000 So what kind of influence does the Mafia have over Muay Thai in Thailand other than that?

01:44:53.000 I mean, obviously they're going to try to get people to fix fights, but is there any other influence that it has?

01:44:57.000 I mean, how prevalent is it over there?

01:44:59.000 Imagine sometimes they're in front of the Thai TV, and then a guy will have a clipboard with Velcro phone.

01:45:08.000 He'll have ten phones on a clipboard, and he'll talk to everyone at once.

01:45:12.000 Okay, it's now a 7-4-1 for the blue corner.

01:45:15.000 And then some guy will have a marker on his top pocket and it'll be blue.

01:45:20.000 And then the red starts turning around.

01:45:21.000 He'll take his marker out and change it over to white.

01:45:23.000 And all of a sudden the bedding starts changing.

01:45:25.000 So there's all these different...

01:45:27.000 Oh, it's amazing.

01:45:28.000 It's so full on.

01:45:29.000 Unless you know the game and how to do it. 0.98

01:45:32.000 I'm still watching things going, holy shit, this isn't... 0.96

01:45:32.000 I'm still learning. 0.96

01:45:35.000 It's a different league of sport.

01:45:38.000 Do they ever have issues with people not paying their debts? 0.98

01:45:41.000 Like people look at you and five to one or whatever the fuck they do. 0.94

01:45:44.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.98

01:45:45.000 And then big money too.

01:45:46.000 It might be $100,000 and $50,000 or $500,000 and all of a sudden, yeah, they might possibly go missing also.

01:45:54.000 So fascinating.

01:45:55.000 That aspect of it.

01:45:57.000 And gambling in Asia seems so prevalent.

01:46:00.000 Yeah.

01:46:01.000 I mean, all throughout the casinos here in America, we see a lot of people from Asia, a lot of Asian people gambling there.

01:46:09.000 And in Macau, obviously, they have that.

01:46:12.000 Macau, they say, is like way bigger than Vegas. 1.00

01:46:14.000 They say the gambling there is just off the charts and people who are just stupid wealthy gambling ridiculous amounts of money. 0.95

01:46:22.000 Well, they have a Muay Thai paper that comes out every day, and they'll tell you what the odds are for each fighter tonight, what the odds are tomorrow, who won big last night. 0.98

01:46:33.000 It's all about gambling.

01:46:34.000 It's not about the fights or the match-ups.

01:46:37.000 Making money.

01:46:38.000 And gambling's illegal, I think, in Thailand.

01:46:40.000 Thai boxing, they turn a blind eye.

01:46:43.000 If you're playing poker at home with six of your mates from next door, one of the other neighbours could look through the window, ring the police, and then they'll come in with six SWAT cars and race everyone in the house from the kids to the grandparents for playing poker indoors in their own lounge room.

01:47:00.000 That's insane.

01:47:01.000 And that happens on a regular basis?

01:47:02.000 Yeah.

01:47:03.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:47:03.000 They come in and arrest people for gambling with their family.

01:47:07.000 That's insane.

01:47:07.000 Yes.

01:47:08.000 But you can bet on the fights.

01:47:09.000 Wow.

01:47:10.000 And what's the logic behind that?

01:47:12.000 There just seems to be, for some reason, there seems to be a turn of blind eye.

01:47:17.000 And it's run by the army, too.

01:47:19.000 The big stadiums are run by the army, too.

01:47:23.000 Wow, that's so fascinating.

01:47:26.000 So that, to me, has always been one of the most bizarre parts of Muay Thai is watching all those people screaming and betting and throwing their hands up in the air.

01:47:34.000 And me, as someone who's never been over there, I never understood what was going on.

01:47:38.000 But it's crazy that you being over there didn't know what was going on either.

01:47:42.000 You're still trying to figure it out after all these years.

01:47:45.000 When I fought my first fight at Lumpini, I was losing the first two rounds, and then I started landing a few kicks.

01:47:51.000 I must have been like 10 for 1, 20 for 1 even.

01:47:54.000 And then I started landing a few punches, and then the crowd just changed.

01:47:57.000 Bang! 1.00

01:47:58.000 And then it got to the stage.

01:48:01.000 It was so deafening that it gives you that second win.

01:48:03.000 Every time you land a shot, all of a sudden, it feels like you're invincible now.

01:48:07.000 And then I ended up mucking the guy in the fourth round.

01:48:10.000 So I made every single, well not every single, but all the guys in the stadium, so much money.

01:48:15.000 Put down a thousand baht and you get 20,000 baht.

01:48:19.000 It's pretty cool.

01:48:21.000 So that is probably one of the reasons why it's so popular over there.

01:48:24.000 So it's almost like their version of horse racing or something like that.

01:48:28.000 Wow.

01:48:28.000 Lumpini is gone now.

01:48:30.000 Back then, Lumpini was the most famous stadium in the world.

01:48:33.000 You were pretty much the only main western that was fighting there back then, eh?

01:48:36.000 Heaps of westerners.

01:48:37.000 Decker was there and Danny Bill and even Manu Entos.

01:48:41.000 He was fighting there regularly also.

01:48:41.000 You know Manu?

01:48:43.000 But the tyres will come into the change room and instead of looking at it, they'll come and feel your arms like a horse, see how fit you are, look you up and down like you're just a piece of meat.

01:48:53.000 Should I put money on him?

01:48:54.000 Yeah, sure.

01:48:55.000 He looks pretty good.

01:48:56.000 Or he looks a bit flabby.

01:48:57.000 Nah, nah, a bit on the other guy.

01:49:00.000 So they'll just check you out and talk in Thai.

01:49:02.000 Come and feel you and everything.

01:49:04.000 Touch you.

01:49:04.000 Touch your belly to see if you have a strong stomach.

01:49:06.000 These are just gamblers.

01:49:07.000 Yeah, just gamblers. 1.00

01:49:08.000 How fucking weird. 0.98

01:49:09.000 And then at Lompini, the change room is next to the Thai toilets as well. 1.00

01:49:13.000 So as they're coming in for a piss, they might come in and feel your ass while you're pissing. 0.99

01:49:17.000 See what kind of quads you got? 1.00

01:49:19.000 Pretty much.

01:49:20.000 How bizarre.

01:49:21.000 Did anybody ever get angry when people are touching them like that?

01:49:25.000 It's just so normal that it's not even frowned upon.

01:49:28.000 It's just like, oh, yeah, how you going?

01:49:29.000 They still do it today.

01:49:30.000 Yeah.

01:49:31.000 They still do it today, eh?

01:49:32.000 Yeah, it's just normal.

01:49:34.000 It's just Thai culture.

01:49:35.000 Just they're allowed to squeeze you?

01:49:36.000 Yeah, pretty much.

01:49:38.000 How strange.

01:49:38.000 Do they have women fighting over there?

01:49:40.000 It's just started before the last 10 years or so.

01:49:44.000 Before the Thai, the women, even to this day, they're not allowed to touch the ring on the main stadiums. 1.00

01:49:49.000 In the country, in the smaller stadiums, they're allowed to fight, but they've got to go under the bottom rope.

01:49:53.000 They're not allowed to climb the top rope.

01:49:54.000 What?

01:49:55.000 Yeah, when they get into the ring, they must hop on their belly and roll under.

01:49:58.000 What?

01:49:59.000 Yeah, because of it.

01:50:00.000 And then the Lumpini and the Rajadam Dunes, they're not allowed to touch the ring yet because they give girl germs. 0.99

01:50:07.000 Girl germs. 1.00

01:50:09.000 So in case you get cut...

01:50:11.000 Oh, so you want to hear a funny one?

01:50:13.000 Periods.

01:50:13.000 So as a Thai male, you're not allowed to go down on a girl before a fight.

01:50:18.000 Otherwise, there's a chance you'll get cut by elbows.

01:50:21.000 Good call.

01:50:22.000 Yeah.

01:50:22.000 What?

01:50:23.000 They think that you get cut by elbows because you eat pussy? 1.00

01:50:26.000 Yeah, because you've taken your head down past their waist and the head's sacred and below the waist is considered dirt. 1.00

01:50:31.000 So to go down on a girl is considered really bad and really bad luck.

01:50:35.000 But I've had 290 stitches. 1.00

01:50:38.000 Mmm, so you eat a lot of pussy. 1.00

01:50:40.000 Let's see what's up. 1.00

01:50:41.000 You've had 290 stitches?

01:50:43.000 That's a real number?

01:50:44.000 That's a real number.

01:50:44.000 You look great.

01:50:45.000 You made a fucking good connection with some doctors. 0.99

01:50:49.000 They stitched you up properly. 0.99

01:50:51.000 I would have never guessed.

01:50:52.000 I have a rubber band in the back of my head and I just pull the skin back.

01:50:56.000 Pulls all the wrinkles out.

01:50:58.000 That's crazy, man.

01:50:59.000 290 stitches.

01:51:00.000 It's crazy that they won't let the girls touch the ring.

01:51:03.000 What do they do when they're fighting?

01:51:04.000 On the outside ones, they used to make the girls fight last So, there was no girl germs when the boys fought earlier.

01:51:13.000 Wow!

01:51:14.000 But before, they couldn't touch the ringer at all.

01:51:16.000 Everything's back up, Jamie?

01:51:18.000 Been out for a while.

01:51:18.000 Been out for a while?

01:51:19.000 That's bizarre. 0.99

01:51:20.000 That's so strange that they have such ancient, ridiculous, superstitious ideas when it comes to women. 0.99

01:51:28.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:51:28.000 What about Nong Tum? 0.98

01:51:29.000 What happened?

01:51:30.000 Nong Tum. 0.97

01:51:30.000 Nong Tum was the ladyboy. 0.97

01:51:32.000 The ladyboy that used to fight at Lampini.

01:51:34.000 They made a movie about her because she used to save all the prize money and then she eventually saved up enough to get a sex change. 1.00

01:51:41.000 And then she started doing the hormones. 0.92

01:51:43.000 Then it was all over the news because she started taking these injections that make boobs. 1.00

01:51:48.000 And then she wouldn't take her shirt off when she fought. 0.89

01:51:51.000 And then she was a big spectacle.

01:51:53.000 She was making main events in Japan but she stopped fighting in Thailand because she didn't want to fight other Thai boys.

01:51:59.000 And they were paying like thousands of dollars just to have dinner with her because she was such a freak, or he was such a freak. 0.98

01:52:05.000 And then eventually after, they said, we've got to give you injections, grow the boobs, make sure you want a sex change first before we chop your doodle off. 1.00

01:52:12.000 And then they eventually chopped the doodle off, and now she fights chicks. 1.00

01:52:15.000 But because she's had all the hormones, now she doesn't hit as hard.

01:52:19.000 Well, not as good as she was.

01:52:22.000 She's lost that testosterone. 1.00

01:52:24.000 What'd you say? 1.00

01:52:24.000 She's a beast. 1.00

01:52:25.000 She's still fucking up with me? 1.00

01:52:27.000 Not as much. 0.98

01:52:28.000 Not as much.

01:52:29.000 She's not as tough as she used to be.

01:52:30.000 Well, she used to be a man. 1.00

01:52:31.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0.98

01:52:32.000 She used to be fucking totally different. 1.00

01:52:34.000 So she's allowed to fight females? 1.00

01:52:37.000 Yes.

01:52:38.000 Well, all she does is fight females now. 1.00

01:52:39.000 Does she lose?

01:52:40.000 Sometimes.

01:52:41.000 Wow.

01:52:42.000 Yeah, I wanted to fight her back when I was in Thailand.

01:52:44.000 Well, back when she was a heat.

01:52:46.000 Of course you did.

01:52:47.000 Yeah, but he wouldn't fight me because I was a little bit of a threat.

01:52:51.000 And then he got to the stage where he'd only fight Westerners or Japanese because they were a bit easier than other toys. 0.99

01:52:57.000 So was that the first person that's become a transgender fighter over there? 0.91

01:52:57.000 Wow. 0.91

01:53:02.000 I believe so.

01:53:03.000 The most famous anyway.

01:53:04.000 And then he started going on catwalk models because he had the jiggle in his bra.

01:53:09.000 The jiggle in his bra.

01:53:10.000 I think that's a rap song.

01:53:12.000 Yeah.

01:53:13.000 Wow.

01:53:15.000 Yeah.

01:53:16.000 So he was not, like, world-class before?

01:53:20.000 No, he wasn't A-class.

01:53:21.000 Probably B-class.

01:53:23.000 And how, amongst women, what class is she now? 1.00

01:53:23.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:53:28.000 When...

01:53:29.000 When it was just before the operation, a big star in Japan.

01:53:34.000 They used to main event in a lot of the big shows.

01:53:36.000 Before the operation.

01:53:37.000 So one time, they made her fight a female rock and roll wrestler that had never thrown a punch before. 1.00

01:53:43.000 And they put boxing gloves.

01:53:45.000 And then she had the face painted up in the wrestling stuff and had the get up with the lycra. 1.00

01:53:53.000 And then the bell went.

01:53:56.000 The wrestler come and charged me across. 0.66

01:53:57.000 The transgender grabbed her by the back of the neck, elbowed her three times in the face, and then knocked her out unconscious for about two or three minutes. 1.00

01:54:05.000 It didn't go well.

01:54:06.000 And the dance before the white crew, like John was talking about, I think she does the, like, lipstick on the mirror as well.

01:54:14.000 Oh, that's pretty cool.

01:54:16.000 It's cool, yeah.

01:54:16.000 Combs the hair and does the lipstick.

01:54:18.000 So she fought a woman that had never fought, never done any training, and beat the shit out of her and knocked her out. 1.00

01:54:25.000 The tie was about 66, 67, and the female wrestler was about 80 or 90 kilos. 0.90

01:54:31.000 So looking at it, it looked fair.

01:54:33.000 One was big, one was small.

01:54:34.000 One you had a fight, one you had a wrestle, but in a Muay Thai match.

01:54:38.000 Oh, God.

01:54:39.000 Yeah, it didn't go well.

01:54:40.000 Was that Japan?

01:54:41.000 That was Japan. 1.00

01:54:42.000 Japan's crazy like that, man. 1.00

01:54:44.000 Yeah, Japan's amazing. 0.99

01:54:44.000 They love putting on freak shows. 0.99

01:54:47.000 They love doing that, man.

01:54:49.000 They love having people who have never fought before fight someone who's a world champion. 0.99

01:54:53.000 Like, they do weird shit like that. 0.97

01:54:55.000 They always did weird shit like that in Pride and K1 and Dream. 0.99

01:55:00.000 Bob Sapp and the Hongman Choi days. 0.99

01:55:02.000 Yeah, man.

01:55:03.000 It was full on.

01:55:03.000 They had a lot of crazy matchups.

01:55:05.000 Bob Sapp was a part of a lot of them, but they loved putting that guy up against...

01:55:09.000 I mean, they put Bob Sapp against Ernesto Hoost.

01:55:11.000 Yeah.

01:55:12.000 And he beat him twice.

01:55:13.000 He beat him!

01:55:14.000 Just with steroids.

01:55:15.000 Yeah.

01:55:16.000 Just with steroids and a lot of momentum.

01:55:18.000 And, I mean, he's tough. 1.00

01:55:20.000 Look, he took some fucking beatings. 0.99

01:55:22.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:55:22.000 I mean, Ernesto Hoost hit him with some bombs. 1.00

01:55:24.000 Naguera and Pride. 0.72

01:55:24.000 Yeah. 0.72

01:55:25.000 That was a good fight.

01:55:25.000 That was exciting.

01:55:26.000 They fucked up Naguera's neck forever. 1.00

01:55:28.000 Oh, really? 1.00

01:55:29.000 He hit him with a pile driver in the first round.

01:55:29.000 A pile driver.

01:55:31.000 He was 370 pounds with abs.

01:55:33.000 Yep. 0.95

01:55:34.000 And Noguera, you know, to this day, his neck's probably fucked up from that fight. 0.99

01:55:38.000 Yeah. 0.88

01:55:39.000 I remember Crow Cop was the first person to beat him in K1. Yeah. 1.00

01:55:42.000 Hit him with a head kick. 0.99

01:55:43.000 Well, he broke his eye socket. 0.98

01:55:45.000 Oh, really?

01:55:46.000 Yeah.

01:55:46.000 He hit him with a straight left and fractured his eye socket.

01:55:49.000 It wasn't a head kick.

01:55:50.000 Yep.

01:55:50.000 Oh, okay.

01:55:51.000 Oh, that's right.

01:55:51.000 Yeah.

01:55:52.000 Yeah.

01:55:53.000 And then he went down and he crumbled.

01:55:54.000 Yeah.

01:55:55.000 I remember that one.

01:55:55.000 Yep.

01:55:56.000 His eye was never the same after that.

01:55:56.000 Yeah.

01:55:58.000 He had like one of those weird eyes after that.

01:56:00.000 You know how some dudes get?

01:56:02.000 Some dudes, if their eye gets, their orbital gets so shattered that they have to repair it and do reconstructive surgery on it, whatever you're doing is picking up on the microphone over there, fella.

01:56:12.000 Are you eating nuts?

01:56:13.000 Just push it away from me.

01:56:15.000 We don't hear it.

01:56:16.000 But he had one eye that was always really weird after that.

01:56:21.000 And because of that, he pretty much never was willing to take a punch after that.

01:56:26.000 From then on, all his fights started laying down.

01:56:30.000 Whenever he got tagged, the fight was over.

01:56:32.000 There was no comebacks.

01:56:33.000 He made a lot of money.

01:56:34.000 He made a lot of money. 1.00

01:56:34.000 Fuck yeah, he did. 1.00

01:56:35.000 Well, he was a superstar in Japan. 1.00

01:56:38.000 Yes.

01:56:38.000 They made a Bob Sapp dildo.

01:56:43.000 What?

01:56:43.000 They did.

01:56:44.000 They molded it and the Japanese loved it.

01:56:48.000 They thought it was the greatest thing ever. 1.00

01:56:49.000 They molded it after his dick or did you just take a guess? 1.00

01:56:51.000 Apparently so. 1.00

01:56:52.000 I'm serious.

01:56:53.000 They had a book of 50 bobsat facial expressions.

01:56:58.000 Here's Bob happy.

01:56:59.000 Here's Bob sad.

01:57:00.000 Here's Bob raising one eyebrow.

01:57:02.000 And it was like a number one seller.

01:57:06.000 The dolls, the bobset was a big deal.

01:57:10.000 They're so strange.

01:57:11.000 It's such an unusual, unusual culture.

01:57:14.000 Did you have any weird things happening in Japan?

01:57:17.000 Just men crying.

01:57:19.000 That was probably the weirdest thing.

01:57:20.000 When we used to go to the hotel, there'd be people that would camp in the foyer for like three or four days.

01:57:28.000 And every time we'd come in at a lift, they'd sort of rush up to the thing trying to get pictures and signings.

01:57:35.000 Sometimes walking the street, I had one male guy.

01:57:38.000 He just broke down in front of me and just started bawling his eyes out.

01:57:41.000 And then he pulled out a watch out of his pocket and said, I was coming to the hotel to give you this.

01:57:45.000 I can't believe I'm meeting you on the street.

01:57:47.000 Here's this watch.

01:57:48.000 And just, yeah, it was bizarre.

01:57:50.000 And then women crying too.

01:57:52.000 Like women would cry all the time. 1.00

01:57:53.000 That was sort of normal.

01:57:54.000 That's normal in pro wrestling circles.

01:57:56.000 If you follow an American pro wrestler, they'll start crying if they meet you.

01:58:03.000 It's fanatics!

01:58:04.000 It's just fanatics.

01:58:05.000 Japanese fanatics are different than any other fanatic.

01:58:08.000 They're very strange.

01:58:09.000 It's cool, but it's fun.

01:58:11.000 Japan was fun.

01:58:12.000 I got to fight their 16th home, so yeah, it was awesome.

01:58:16.000 Well, the culture is very bizarre when you're walking around there.

01:58:18.000 When you just walk around Tokyo, it doesn't feel like any other city anywhere else.

01:58:22.000 It's very modern, it's very advanced, very technologically advanced, like everything is like neon and big screens and high def this and that.

01:58:32.000 But everybody's, like, super polite.

01:58:34.000 Everything's super clean.

01:58:35.000 Sometimes you go through fads, too, where people would have silver hair.

01:58:38.000 And the next time you go back, everyone would be tanned, like ridiculous orange.

01:58:42.000 Well, the next time you go back, it'd be something else where they had the...

01:58:45.000 I don't know.

01:58:46.000 But it was just, yeah, bizarre, like you said.

01:58:49.000 Well, that's one of the things that happened with fighting over there, right?

01:58:52.000 Fighting was a big fad.

01:58:52.000 Yeah.

01:58:54.000 90,000 people in Tokyo Dome, down to 40,000 people to pretty much disappeared from...

01:59:01.000 I don't know.

01:59:02.000 How do you mess up a promotion that's got 90,000 people?

01:59:05.000 How do you screw that up?

01:59:06.000 Well, K1 doesn't exist anymore, right?

01:59:08.000 Yeah, it's done.

01:59:09.000 It's sort of coming back a little bit, but it's not what it was.

01:59:12.000 It'll never be what it was.

01:59:14.000 When was the last event?

01:59:16.000 I think they're doing a 63 kilo now, but they might only get 5,000 people compared to the old days of the 40s and the 60s and the 90s.

01:59:26.000 So it's never going to have the same appeal.

01:59:28.000 Before, when we used to fight KLMX, I believe the promotion paid 50% and the TV paid 50%.

01:59:34.000 So between them, they just made this super promotion.

01:59:37.000 So it was the big build-up on the TV and then all the graphics and the highlights and they'd fly to Australia and they'd interview me.

01:59:43.000 Like the UFC does.

01:59:45.000 All the fans felt like they knew the fighter before the bell rang.

01:59:50.000 That's what the sport needs for the Muay Thai and the kickboxing.

01:59:54.000 Yeah, it certainly does.

01:59:55.000 It's so strange that in Japan it achieved this insanely high level of popularity.

02:00:02.000 And then just...

02:00:04.000 Yeah, and then the Bob Satin, the Ernest Hoos, and the Peter Ertz's, they'd be on all the game shows, and then they'd be on all the Wheel of Fortune Japan sort of style, and they were just celebrities.

02:00:16.000 They were not just fighters, but celebrities.

02:00:18.000 And then that's all just vanished now.

02:00:20.000 What's replaced it?

02:00:21.000 I mean, and there's no combat sports that are particularly popular there right now, right?

02:00:26.000 Yeah, well, the Pride and Pride was so massive, and K1 was so massive, and what's now?

02:00:31.000 I'm not sure.

02:00:32.000 Sumo.

02:00:33.000 The UFC got totally schooled in Japanese business when they bought Pride.

02:00:39.000 Yep.

02:00:40.000 Because they really didn't understand how much different Japanese business is than American business.

02:00:46.000 Like, one of the things they did was, it's really kind of interesting how they did it, The Japanese would talk about selling Pride. 0.81

02:00:53.000 They'd be like, you know, we would like to sell Pride.

02:00:55.000 And they'd go, okay, let's sit down.

02:00:57.000 Let's go over numbers.

02:00:57.000 Let's talk.

02:00:58.000 And so they'd make this big announcement.

02:01:00.000 The UFC is sitting down with Pride.

02:01:01.000 They're talking about buying Pride.

02:01:03.000 And then they'd go, eh, we're not going to sell.

02:01:05.000 And they would sit down, they'd reach some sort of an agreement, and then, hmm, not gonna sell.

02:01:09.000 They went for a long time. 0.99

02:01:11.000 They're like, what the fuck is going on with these guys? 0.98

02:01:13.000 Like, they say they're gonna sell, and they don't sell. 0.99

02:01:15.000 But what they were doing was, I mean, they had Vandelay Silva come over, and he got in the cage with Chocolatel, and they mean-mugged each other.

02:01:21.000 Eh, we're not gonna sell.

02:01:22.000 And what they did was they hyped up Pride through the UFC. And they made Pride more exciting by pretending that they were going to sell Pride to the UFC. By pretending they were going to bring fighters over and fighters were going to fight in Pride.

02:01:35.000 And they had Chuck Liddell go over and fight in Pride.

02:01:37.000 Remember that?

02:01:39.000 Rampage Jackson and Chuck Liddell fought and then Chuck came back to the UFC and then finally they said they were gonna sell Pride.

02:01:47.000 And they sold it for $65 million.

02:01:50.000 The UFC got it and once they went through all the paperwork, all the money's exchanged hands, they realized they'd bought bullshit because all the contracts were invalid. 1.00

02:02:02.000 They were all bullshit contracts. 0.99

02:02:04.000 They didn't hold up. 1.00

02:02:06.000 So, like, they didn't have Fedor.

02:02:08.000 They didn't have a lot of the stars.

02:02:10.000 And they had a video library.

02:02:12.000 That's all they had.

02:02:13.000 They got a video library for, like, $65 million.

02:02:16.000 Then it gets even crazier.

02:02:18.000 So they say, okay, we're going to run Pride in Japan.

02:02:21.000 We're going to maintain the office in Japan.

02:02:24.000 We're going to use these Pride employees. 0.99

02:02:25.000 We're going to build up Pride, and we're going to start running Pride in Japan.

02:02:28.000 So they start trying to do that, and the people that were working for them started a dream.

02:02:35.000 So they're working for them.

02:02:37.000 They're working for the UFC, and all the while, they're putting together this dream promotion.

02:02:42.000 Whoa.

02:02:43.000 And so then they went off and started Dream, and then, you know, the UFC's like, ah, we're just going to close up shop.

02:02:48.000 So now all they had from that $65 million, I think they were going to try to sue Japan, the Japanese businessman that sold it to them. 0.99

02:02:56.000 It was a big deal for a while, but then they dropped that shit, too. 0.80

02:02:59.000 And now all they have is the best of Pride that's on Fox Sports 1. I mean, that's the revenue source. 0.99

02:03:06.000 It's also something they show on Fight Pass. 0.99

02:03:09.000 You can watch all the old Prides on Fight Pass, which is kind of cool, but it's like, fuck, man. 0.98

02:03:16.000 It's just different. 0.96

02:03:17.000 It's very different over there.

02:03:19.000 That's crazy.

02:03:20.000 Did you make good money fighting over there?

02:03:22.000 It started the ball rolling.

02:03:24.000 It definitely got me out of the...

02:03:26.000 Yeah, yeah, it helped start.

02:03:29.000 And then once I started getting the UK won money, then it sort of snowballed, which helped me get to where I am now.

02:03:35.000 Did they give you...

02:03:36.000 Is it all in cash, like they do with the MMA fighters?

02:03:39.000 Oh, it's one of those ones where it was a month waiting in between pages.

02:03:42.000 Yeah, you'd fight, and okay, where is it, where is it, where is it, where is it? 0.85

02:03:46.000 Well, that's one of the things that fucked Bob Sapp over.

02:03:49.000 Bob Sapp was, they had some sort of a contract dispute, and they tried to get him to fight without a contract in the main event of one of their events.

02:03:56.000 Is it in Holland?

02:03:58.000 I don't think it was.

02:03:59.000 It was a Japanese event.

02:04:00.000 He walked out of one of the events in Holland, and Peter Ertz was in the crowd after a few beers, and he ended up putting his hand up and saying, oh, fine, I'll save the show.

02:04:00.000 I know.

02:04:07.000 And he did it, too.

02:04:08.000 He got beat, but he had to borrow someone else's shorts.

02:04:13.000 Really?

02:04:14.000 Yeah, true story.

02:04:15.000 After a couple beers?

02:04:16.000 Yeah.

02:04:16.000 That's hilarious.

02:04:18.000 Peter Ertz, man, you want to talk about a dude who's fought the best of the best forever.

02:04:23.000 Yeah, he's the king.

02:04:24.000 God, that guy's had some crazy fights.

02:04:26.000 I watched a highlight reel of his the other night on YouTube, and you forget.

02:04:30.000 You forget how many high-kick KOs that guy had.

02:04:33.000 I was going to better say the same thing, because Crow Cop's got the reputation for the head kicks, but then you look back at Peter Ertz, there's Well, Crow Cop has a reputation for head kicks in MMA. Yep.

02:04:43.000 But in kickboxing, I mean, there's no comparison between Crow Cop and Peter Ertz.

02:04:48.000 Yep.

02:04:48.000 But it's also, Crow Cop had a really good style for MMA because he's like this Explosive sprinter type dude like his style for kickboxing He might have not had the best style to compete against like the Ernesto who's or the the best kickboxer guys Like they were like a little bit more technical than him.

02:05:07.000 They had a little bit more classic kickboxing training You know, he's over in Croatia, but he's just a savage You know, and just had lightning-fast kicks.

02:05:16.000 That left high kick, man.

02:05:17.000 Jesus Christ.

02:05:18.000 He was a good guy for when he went to Pride because we had someone that we could relate to that was doing so well in MMA. It's like, yes, everyone cheered for Crow Cop because he was one of us prior to going over.

02:05:27.000 Well, you got to see...

02:05:29.000 With Krokop, what happens when you get a really high-level kickboxer and they learn how to sprawl and they learn how to stay on their feet? 0.99

02:05:36.000 Everybody was getting fucked up. 0.93

02:05:38.000 I mean, there was a period of time when Krokop was in his prime where, I mean, before he lost to Fedor, I mean, he was just lighting people on fire. 0.99

02:05:49.000 You know, you look at some of his head kick victories in Prime.

02:05:52.000 These dudes had no business standing up with him.

02:05:54.000 They had no business.

02:05:56.000 It was like they were blue belts and he was like a ninth degree black belt and striking. 0.99

02:06:00.000 He would just fucking head kick everybody to oblivion. 0.97

02:06:02.000 But he didn't have that kind of success in kickboxing. 0.99

02:06:05.000 Yeah.

02:06:06.000 It's sort of like what we were talking about earlier, where when you're fighting, when you see guys that are fighting in kickboxing or in Muay Thai, you're seeing the highest level expression of that art, of striking art.

02:06:18.000 Like the Yotsin Kalais, the Bull Cows, John Wayne Pars. 0.96

02:06:23.000 Who was, do you think, your toughest opponent that you ever fought?

02:06:27.000 Yosin Klay.

02:06:28.000 Yosin Klay.

02:06:29.000 I fought him three times.

02:06:31.000 The first time I fought him, he kicked me in the head the second round.

02:06:36.000 And then, like last night, when I talked to Brendan, I couldn't remember the rest of the fight.

02:06:40.000 I went the distance, but I have no idea what happened after the head kick.

02:06:43.000 And then the second time we fought was the final of the Contender Asia reality TV show.

02:06:48.000 He dropped me round one and then dropped me again round two.

02:06:51.000 I did okay three, four and five, but yeah, he's a beast.

02:06:55.000 And then the third time we fought was down in Melbourne.

02:06:57.000 And I was just lucky enough to the punches with the Australian judges scored a little bit higher than the round kicks.

02:07:05.000 If it was in Thailand, I think I would have lost, but because it was in Australia, I was lucky to get the single victory over him too. 1.00

02:07:10.000 That's interesting though because it's kind of arbitrary like that they decide that the punches don't score as much in Thailand like the only way you can score I don't think you mentioned on this podcast but you talked about it yesterday in the fight pass that a guy could like box the shit out of a Thai fighter and And if the tie was kicking his arms,

02:07:28.000 the tie fighter would win.

02:07:29.000 I fought Borkow in Jamaica, and they had three Lumpini judges there.

02:07:33.000 And then everyone that watches the fight, I get a lot of emails to this day that just watch it on YouTube and say, I think you beat Borkow that time.

02:07:40.000 But because it was the tie influence of the judges and the tie scoring, that's how I lost.

02:07:45.000 It would have been nice to have that one victory over Borcao as well.

02:07:48.000 That would have really sort of shot.

02:07:50.000 Because he's the man now.

02:07:52.000 He's more famous than Jod Singlo.

02:07:53.000 Even though I think Jod Singlo would beat Borcao if they ever fought.

02:07:58.000 I got a chance to see him fight once in Los Angeles.

02:08:01.000 I forget the name of the promotion.

02:08:02.000 But they had a really high level.

02:08:04.000 Artem Levin fought.

02:08:06.000 Borcao fought.

02:08:07.000 But to see him fight live was beautiful.

02:08:09.000 He doesn't hit very hard.

02:08:10.000 Compared to Yod-Singlai, he's very fast.

02:08:13.000 But Yod-Singlai is very powerful in South Pole.

02:08:16.000 So Yod-Singlai's punching and defense is world standard too.

02:08:22.000 He punches crazy.

02:08:24.000 Whereas Borkau is realizing that fast left kick and that fast teep.

02:08:28.000 It's one of those Floyd-Pacquiao fights, the Yod-Singlai vs Borkau fight.

02:08:33.000 But I'd put my money if they ever did happen to meet.

02:08:37.000 Is it too late for those guys to fight?

02:08:38.000 Different promotions.

02:08:40.000 Different promoters, sorry.

02:08:41.000 So too much support politics that learned. 1.00

02:08:43.000 Like Bob Arum, Don King type shit. 0.99

02:08:45.000 It's never gonna happen. 1.00

02:08:46.000 God damn it! 0.99

02:08:47.000 And then Borkow signed a contract now where he's not allowed to fight other ties apparently. 0.99

02:08:50.000 What?

02:08:51.000 Yeah, he's got taken over by Singha Beer.

02:08:53.000 They've taken over his management and they've made some contract where he can't fight other ties anymore. 0.93

02:08:58.000 That's ridiculous. 0.85

02:08:59.000 How come he can't fight other Thais? 0.97

02:09:01.000 I think it's got to the stage now where he's become a brand.

02:09:04.000 He's not just a fighter, he's a brand.

02:09:06.000 He's sponsored by Singha, Thai Airways, Thai Tourism.

02:09:12.000 He's the face of Thailand for the Muay Thai.

02:09:16.000 That's amazing.

02:09:17.000 How'd that happen?

02:09:18.000 Because he got ripped off by his old manager.

02:09:20.000 He had about 200 fights for Popomuk, and then he won the K1 two or three times, two times, won $50,000, $100,000 both times, and then he kept asking his trainer, so how's my money going?

02:09:36.000 Oh, don't worry, I've put it in a bank, I'm investing it for you, and he went out and bought five houses for himself.

02:09:42.000 The manager did.

02:09:44.000 And then he said, okay, where's my money?

02:09:45.000 He said, you have nothing.

02:09:47.000 He had a pillow and a suitcase of clothes after 200 fights to show you for his name.

02:09:54.000 Wow.

02:09:54.000 So he quit.

02:09:55.000 He quit the camp.

02:09:56.000 He said, that's it.

02:09:57.000 I'm done.

02:09:58.000 And then the manager was going to sue him.

02:10:01.000 I went to court.

02:10:02.000 And they told, yeah, it was big time.

02:10:04.000 The manager's going to sue him?

02:10:06.000 Yeah, because he still wanted his 50%. 1.00

02:10:07.000 Oh, fuck Christ. 0.99

02:10:10.000 If Borkow went to fight for Japan again, he was still making big money and he still wanted his cut. 1.00

02:10:14.000 Even though he ripped him off?

02:10:16.000 Even though he ripped him off.

02:10:17.000 In Thailand, the manager was still right.

02:10:19.000 He still had the rights.

02:10:21.000 Remember how we were talking about the horses?

02:10:21.000 That was his horse.

02:10:23.000 That's his property.

02:10:25.000 Borkow is his property.

02:10:26.000 Borkow didn't have any claim to all the money that he got ripped off from?

02:10:29.000 Nothing.

02:10:30.000 Whoa.

02:10:31.000 It's Thailand.

02:10:32.000 Okay, so he leaves and then somebody else manages him?

02:10:36.000 Yeah, so Borkow, he declared...

02:10:38.000 He made a statement, remember, at the fight night and he brought the king in and said, you know, I fight for my country, I fight for the king.

02:10:43.000 You mean brought the king in?

02:10:45.000 You're holding your hands up like you're holding a photo.

02:10:47.000 He was holding a photo of the king up.

02:10:47.000 Oh, he did.

02:10:50.000 He wasn't actually holding him up.

02:10:52.000 And then I think he announced his retirement too.

02:10:54.000 He said, oh, I'm done.

02:10:55.000 I'm just going to open my own gym.

02:10:57.000 And then I believe Singha Beer, they had a friendship with him.

02:11:02.000 They said, hey, we're going to take you under our wings.

02:11:05.000 We'll counter sue.

02:11:06.000 They got the money to do whatever.

02:11:07.000 And then Borkow had permission to all of a sudden start fighting again.

02:11:10.000 And then they have a lot of influence.

02:11:14.000 So the entire tourism come in and said, oh, we'll give you a hand as well.

02:11:18.000 And then all of a sudden, Borkow is driving a BMW and owns his own place.

02:11:23.000 But he's a good face for, like, he's a good man.

02:11:25.000 Okay, well, where does he live?

02:11:26.000 He lives still in Thailand?

02:11:27.000 He's got his own camp now.

02:11:29.000 In Thailand?

02:11:30.000 In Thailand.

02:11:30.000 He's on a farm.

02:11:31.000 I always see him with farm pictures and stuff.

02:11:33.000 He's got a massive gym.

02:11:34.000 Well, that's a great story, you know, that this terrible tragedy and this horrible theft turned good.

02:11:40.000 Yeah, yeah, definitely.

02:11:41.000 He's still young.

02:11:42.000 I mean, how old is he?

02:11:43.000 Oh, he must be nearly early 30s, probably.

02:11:45.000 Yeah.

02:11:46.000 So that age where it's like almost, you know, he's got enough time.

02:11:49.000 Yeah, it was the full Rocky story.

02:11:51.000 His whole possessions taken away and then to come back and now to be to where he is is pretty cool.

02:11:56.000 And is he only fighting Westerners?

02:11:57.000 Like, how does it go?

02:11:58.000 Yeah, Westerners and Asians, but no ties.

02:12:02.000 That's so weird.

02:12:03.000 Why no ties?

02:12:04.000 Dangerous.

02:12:05.000 Dangerous.

02:12:06.000 He could lose.

02:12:06.000 Dangerous.

02:12:07.000 He could lose. 0.98

02:12:07.000 He's a brain. 0.98

02:12:08.000 Oh, I didn't think of it that way. 0.67

02:12:10.000 I thought it was a nationalistic thing.

02:12:12.000 Like, you know, you don't want to beat it.

02:12:13.000 Like, a lot of Brazilians do not like to fight Brazilians.

02:12:16.000 There's the handful of ties that are there that are quite, quite dangerous as well and then could take away that.

02:12:21.000 And then that reputation in one fight has disappeared.

02:12:25.000 Oh, wow.

02:12:26.000 Ooh, that's a terrible little velvet prison to be living in.

02:12:30.000 Yeah.

02:12:30.000 You know?

02:12:31.000 Does that make him lose faith in Thailand or in the Muay Thai community?

02:12:35.000 He's a god.

02:12:36.000 He's a god.

02:12:37.000 Doesn't matter.

02:12:37.000 He's a god.

02:12:38.000 And every time he fights, there'll be 20,000 people in a park somewhere cheering his name.

02:12:42.000 How many?

02:12:43.000 Just for instance, like we were talking about before, how if you can do a promotion outside, people will drive for hours to be amongst the promotion.

02:12:51.000 And then I think he's on tight commercials.

02:12:53.000 He might even be on the side of buses and billboards.

02:12:56.000 He's the man.

02:12:58.000 He's the...

02:13:00.000 What could he be?

02:13:02.000 He's the Michael Jordan of Thailand. 1.00

02:13:04.000 So does Yotsin Klai sit around looking at him on billboards and go, damn motherfucker. 1.00

02:13:09.000 I dare say he would. 1.00

02:13:10.000 He'd have to.

02:13:11.000 He'd have to. 0.99

02:13:12.000 Damn, because those are the two big names that people talk about in Muay Thai in America. 0.98

02:13:16.000 I mean, I don't know what it's like over there, but... 0.98

02:13:18.000 When you talk to people who train Muay Thai that are fans of the sport, those are the two big names.

02:13:24.000 Yeah, Borkao had the opportunity to fight for K1, which blew his career up before that, and he was just fighting on Channel 7, just a small time, and then got in front of the K1 walled scene, and then he blew up, and then Yad Singlai never had the same opportunities as Borkao did.

02:13:39.000 Well, Yad Singlai's fighting for lion fights, right? 0.78

02:13:41.000 Yeah.

02:13:42.000 And they're putting that on AXS TV. It's...

02:13:44.000 It's just not that much coverage.

02:13:46.000 Yes.

02:13:47.000 It's too bad, because AXS TV has amazing fights.

02:13:50.000 And Lion Fight, you know, they have Kevin Ross, who's an American and does very well.

02:13:54.000 He's one of their champions over there. 1.00

02:13:55.000 He's a bad motherfucker. 0.99

02:13:56.000 He's really exciting to watch fight. 1.00

02:13:58.000 Yeah, Kevin's cool.

02:13:59.000 He's so good.

02:14:00.000 And his Muay Thai, it's such pure Muay Thai, you know what I mean?

02:14:03.000 It's not like a boxer or a kickboxer.

02:14:06.000 Like, there's some guys, like, no disrespect, because he's a very good fighter, like a Wayne Barrett.

02:14:10.000 He's a very good fighter.

02:14:11.000 But, you know, you see, like, he's got more of sort of like a boxing style, and then he's adding the Muay Thai techniques to it.

02:14:16.000 Whereas, you see Kevin Ross, like, just looks like, you know, your classic Muay Thai style of fighter.

02:14:22.000 Yeah, Kevin's sort of like the version of me.

02:14:24.000 He's gone and lived and breathed and done everything in his power to make that transition, so his whole life's consumed of the...

02:14:33.000 Yeah, I love Lion Fights, man.

02:14:35.000 I went to see that live in Vegas.

02:14:37.000 I really hope that promotion takes off.

02:14:39.000 Yes, it'd be good for the sport.

02:14:40.000 It'd be so good.

02:14:41.000 Well, this is the only one.

02:14:42.000 I mean, that's the big promotion in America.

02:14:46.000 That's the promotion with TV coverage is showing full Muay Thai.

02:14:49.000 Yes.

02:14:51.000 So you got brought in to work with George.

02:14:53.000 You got brought in to work with George St. Pierre before which fight was it?

02:14:57.000 Hendrix.

02:14:58.000 And what was that camp like?

02:14:59.000 What was it like?

02:15:00.000 How did you guys make this connection?

02:15:02.000 So I had the opportunity to come to Canada and I did seven seminars all around Canada and there was about three days left on my schedule before I had to fly back to Australia.

02:15:11.000 And then the gentleman that brought me over said, hey, would you like to travel to Montreal and go to TriStar and meet George? 0.88

02:15:18.000 I said, holy shit, that'd be pretty cool. 0.86

02:15:19.000 Get a photo with George and Facebook status and that'd be amazing. 0.96

02:15:23.000 So we drove to Montreal and I said, hey, Ferez was so nice.

02:15:29.000 He goes, oh, I know who you are.

02:15:31.000 I'm happy to put you up in a hotel for tonight, and then tomorrow is Muay Thai sparring day.

02:15:34.000 Would you like to spar a few of the boys? 0.97

02:15:37.000 I said, holy shit, that'd be pretty cool. 0.88

02:15:38.000 So the next day, I brought on my gear, and then we're stretching out, and I say, all right, John Wayne, you go and spar George. 0.98

02:15:46.000 It's like, whoa.

02:15:48.000 And then I touched George's glove and then I was like a little schoolgirl.

02:15:55.000 Oh my God, I can't believe I was right.

02:15:57.000 George, you're not moving.

02:15:58.000 It's like I did with you today.

02:15:59.000 Exactly the same I did with you today.

02:16:00.000 And then the first 10 seconds I was so afraid of George's jab.

02:16:05.000 And then I've waited, waited, and then he's thrown something I counted.

02:16:08.000 He threw something else.

02:16:09.000 I counted that.

02:16:10.000 He threw a jab. 0.98

02:16:11.000 I come over the top, and I place my shin across his neck, and I just left it there just long enough for the whole gym to stop and stare.

02:16:18.000 And then George's eyes lit up, and then I chased him from one side of the cage to the other side of the cage, and I felt pretty good.

02:16:29.000 And then next round, hey, all right, John Wayne, you go Rory. 0.99

02:16:32.000 So I sparred Rory, and I said, holy shit. 1.00

02:16:35.000 I said to Rory, are we going to go light? 0.99

02:16:39.000 Because I thought he was a pretty psycho.

02:16:41.000 And he was really cool.

02:16:42.000 He was a really nice guy.

02:16:43.000 And then we sparred him, and did really well against Rory as well.

02:16:46.000 All right, back with George.

02:16:47.000 Sort of did really well against George again.

02:16:49.000 So I took some photos, and then I thought that was it.

02:16:53.000 I thought it was all done.

02:16:54.000 And then about two months later, Ferraz gave me a call.

02:16:56.000 He said, hey, George is getting ready for Hendrix.

02:16:59.000 We've got about two months.

02:17:00.000 Any chance you want to come back to Montreal and train George personally for Muay Thai? 0.99

02:17:04.000 I said, holy fuck, yes. 0.99

02:17:06.000 Wow. 1.00

02:17:07.000 So I jumped on the plane.

02:17:09.000 George picked me up at the airport.

02:17:10.000 He took me to the hotel.

02:17:12.000 He said, oh, this is the hotel in St. Catherine's.

02:17:15.000 This is where I like to hit Freddie Roach. 0.99

02:17:17.000 I said, holy shit, this is big time. 0.99

02:17:19.000 Wow. 0.99

02:17:19.000 And then, yeah, George picked me up every morning. 0.99

02:17:23.000 We'd go train.

02:17:23.000 We'd go eat lunch.

02:17:25.000 We were together every day for two.

02:17:27.000 After a week, he said, hey, do you want to go to New York?

02:17:30.000 New York's like my second hometown.

02:17:32.000 I'd love to show you around.

02:17:33.000 We'll go and meet John Danaher.

02:17:36.000 So we went to New York and then we did some training at the Gracie Academy there.

02:17:40.000 And I got to meet Phil Nurse.

02:17:44.000 It was really cool.

02:17:45.000 Everyone was really nice.

02:17:46.000 Were you training jiu-jitsu or were you just training Muay Thai?

02:17:48.000 I was George's Muay Thai trainer personally for two weeks.

02:17:52.000 Perez says you don't have to do any classes or any seminars.

02:17:55.000 We've just got to train George personally for two weeks.

02:17:58.000 So basically every day?

02:17:59.000 Every day we do pads and spa and just have fun.

02:17:59.000 Every day.

02:18:02.000 Did you do anything differently the way you trained him than you would train any Muay Thai fighter?

02:18:08.000 We had to get ready for Hendrix, who was a southpaw.

02:18:10.000 So I become Hendrix when we sparred, so I'd throw this overhand right and try to rush him a little bit.

02:18:16.000 Overhand left.

02:18:17.000 Very cool.

02:18:20.000 That's why you're on the big bucks.

02:18:22.000 Doubt it.

02:18:23.000 That's all it took.

02:18:24.000 So yeah, I become Hendrickson when we sparred.

02:18:28.000 And then I had George just doing basic stuff, as you would have fighting any saupour.

02:18:35.000 But unfortunately, I think Phil Nurse, my style didn't complement Phil's style.

02:18:41.000 Phil was more about the spinning kick and the jumping elbow and the spinning something or other.

02:18:46.000 And I just wanted to keep George one stall, just to keep it inside.

02:18:49.000 You just wanted to be more conservative?

02:18:53.000 Yeah.

02:18:55.000 So after two weeks, it was still 12 weeks before the fight happened, so George probably went back to his stall.

02:19:03.000 Because it's so hard, you've got to stay with someone that whole time.

02:19:06.000 You can't just train them for a couple of days and hope they stay that way.

02:19:11.000 And then so I got back to Australia and this is cool.

02:19:14.000 So this lady, she sends me this email. 1.00

02:19:17.000 She goes, I just want to know, are you going to go to George's fight?

02:19:21.000 And I said, oh, unfortunately, no.

02:19:22.000 If I go on the team, they're going to have to kick someone off and I don't want to cause any controversy.

02:19:26.000 I'll just cheer for George in Australia.

02:19:28.000 She goes, no, no, no.

02:19:29.000 You deserve to be there.

02:19:31.000 I want to pay for your plane ticket to go and watch George fight live.

02:19:34.000 You deserve to be there.

02:19:35.000 Who is this lady? 1.00

02:19:36.000 Just some lady from Facebook. 1.00

02:19:39.000 With some cash?

02:19:40.000 Wow, so she just flew you?

02:19:42.000 So she goes, what would you like?

02:19:44.000 Isla Window. 0.98

02:19:45.000 And I was like, holy shit, this is really happening. 0.99

02:19:47.000 She goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0.96

02:19:48.000 I'll send you over there.

02:19:49.000 You deserve to be there.

02:19:50.000 Wow.

02:19:51.000 And then she goes, good news.

02:19:52.000 As I was looking for flights, a deal came up for MGM. So I've got your three nights at MGM also.

02:19:57.000 So you just got to rock up and go.

02:19:59.000 That's so crazy.

02:20:00.000 It was so cool.

02:20:00.000 And did George know you were coming?

02:20:03.000 No, I don't think so.

02:20:05.000 Then Goyo from Mexico that trains at Albuquerque, he's seen I was there, and he asked me if I could walk him to the scales on the night.

02:20:13.000 And then I got to see George in the back room, and he's looking at me, how the hell did you get that puppy?

02:20:18.000 That's funny.

02:20:18.000 It was pretty cool.

02:20:20.000 That's when we met?

02:20:21.000 Yeah.

02:20:21.000 So that's how I got you tickets.

02:20:23.000 That's how you got into the fights.

02:20:24.000 So everybody hooked you up.

02:20:25.000 Yes, yes.

02:20:26.000 It was amazing.

02:20:28.000 And then, yeah, watching George fight from the grandstands, he fought the complete opposite fight to what we were training for.

02:20:34.000 He fought Hendrix like he was going to fight an orthodox fighter instead of a southpaw fighter.

02:20:38.000 So he was throwing outside left kicks instead of inside right kicks and big body kicks like we were working on.

02:20:45.000 I thought he won.

02:20:46.000 It was a very close fight.

02:20:47.000 I thought going into the fifth round...

02:20:49.000 It was anyone's fight.

02:20:50.000 It was 2-2.

02:20:51.000 In the fifth round, I believe George just did it slightly enough to get the edge.

02:20:55.000 So that's my theory anyway.

02:20:57.000 But you didn't enjoy the way he was doing it?

02:21:00.000 Did it bother you?

02:21:01.000 Yeah, it did a little bit.

02:21:02.000 Considering what we worked on and then how we fought was a complete contrast.

02:21:06.000 So I think he could have won a lot easier if we had stuck to our game plan.

02:21:11.000 But yeah, I was too far out of camp to make that game plan stick.

02:21:17.000 I didn't know that Phil Nurse liked a lot of spinning techniques.

02:21:20.000 What kind of spinning techniques does he emphasize?

02:21:24.000 He's more about the spinning elbows and the upward elbow and the spinning back kick.

02:21:28.000 He's more about the crowd-pleasing moves instead of the stick into the basics.

02:21:34.000 That's interesting.

02:21:35.000 I wouldn't have thought that.

02:21:36.000 I thought he was like real traditional Muay Thai.

02:21:41.000 More flashy.

02:21:42.000 More flashy.

02:21:42.000 But he's the one that gets the crowd standing up.

02:21:46.000 When people do his stuff, it's the, oh yeah, that's pretty awesome.

02:21:51.000 Oh, I see what you're saying.

02:21:52.000 I'd rather punch someone in the face really hard with a jab than I would a spinning back key, if that makes sense.

02:21:58.000 I keep everything low-key so I can win instead of risking it.

02:22:02.000 Well, you have a real power-based style, which is really unusual.

02:22:06.000 I've worked with a lot of different guys over the years that are training MMA fighters or train Muay Thai, and your style is completely unique. 0.93

02:22:15.000 Your style of standing, that power jab you have is ridiculous, man.

02:22:21.000 It's really the only guy who I've ever talked to that had a similar philosophy but slightly different was Bas Rutten. 0.59

02:22:28.000 Bas Rutten also believes that your jab should be as hard as your left as your right hand. 1.00

02:22:33.000 He's a fucking psycho. 0.99

02:22:34.000 You want to hear a Bas Rutten story? 1.00

02:22:36.000 You have a Bas Rutten story?

02:22:38.000 Everybody has a Bas Rutten story.

02:22:39.000 I was at Disneyland and then I was with the family and then I've gone to go to the toilet and I've seen Bas with his family.

02:22:46.000 And then I was wearing a UFC shirt.

02:22:49.000 And then at the corner of my eye, I could see that he'd seen me.

02:22:52.000 And I was sort of this little fan, this little sparrow, this little annoying little bug.

02:23:00.000 How long ago was this?

02:23:01.000 Maybe two or three years ago.

02:23:03.000 Oh, annoying little bug that happened to have ten world titles in Muay Thai, whatever. 0.92

02:23:06.000 But I had the UFC shirt on, so I stood out like dog balls.

02:23:10.000 And then I finally got the courage to go up and ask him for a photo.

02:23:13.000 And then he said, just a minute, just a minute.

02:23:16.000 I have to buy my son an ice cream first.

02:23:17.000 I'll come back.

02:23:18.000 And I felt this big.

02:23:19.000 I felt like a little midget. 0.83

02:23:21.000 And then sure enough, he come back over.

02:23:22.000 Hey, I'll get that photo with you now.

02:23:24.000 And I felt...

02:23:26.000 If you didn't know who I was, I introduced myself, but he's just a polite smile, took the photo, wished me on my way, and then he came to Australia, and then he did seminars here, and the guy that organized the seminars got him to give me a call.

02:23:38.000 Hey, talk to John Wayne, and then I told him the story, and it was pretty funny.

02:23:44.000 That's hilarious.

02:23:45.000 Did you say your name to him?

02:23:47.000 You said I'm John Wayne Parr.

02:23:50.000 He gave me a polite smile, though.

02:23:53.000 You got me a polite small.

02:23:54.000 Boss rooting out of the loop.

02:23:57.000 He was the first guy to bring real technical striking to MMA. He's amazing.

02:24:01.000 He's the man.

02:24:03.000 The best is the man.

02:24:04.000 Him and then Maury Smith was the one who brought real high-level Muay Thai to the UFC. Yes.

02:24:11.000 You know, like you watch Maury's leg kicks were just fucking brutality. 0.98

02:24:15.000 Yeah, he gave Stan the Man a touch-up too. 0.98

02:24:17.000 Did he? 1.00

02:24:18.000 Maurice was a bad motherfucker in his day. 0.99

02:24:19.000 He won a fight recently at 50. He's 50 and he won an MMA fight by head kick. 1.00

02:24:28.000 He's still going at it, man.

02:24:31.000 It's amazing.

02:24:32.000 Maurice just decided.

02:24:33.000 He took a few years off and decided to fight one more time.

02:24:36.000 And that was MMA? Yeah, MMA. He fought some dude who had no business.

02:24:42.000 By the way, you know, but I mean, hey, I mean, he's 50. You don't know, you know, I mean, there's guys that have come back after all those years and, you know, but Maurice was in great shape.

02:24:51.000 He did it the right way.

02:24:53.000 He was always known for his discipline and his cardio.

02:24:55.000 Yeah.

02:24:56.000 He's when we're talking about pioneers just before he's definitely one of the men.

02:24:56.000 Yeah.

02:25:01.000 That brought the sport up.

02:25:01.000 Oh, yeah.

02:25:02.000 Well, he was one of the first guys that showed how important cardio was in MMA when he fought Mark Coleman. 0.98

02:25:08.000 Because Mark Coleman came at him like a fucking bat out of hell in the first round. 0.96

02:25:12.000 But Maurice just showed poise and discipline and stayed calm. 0.99

02:25:16.000 And then after, you know, the first round was over and Coleman started to gas out, then Maurice starts landing those heavy leg kicks.

02:25:24.000 You hear that thump. 0.99

02:25:25.000 That fucking thump. 1.00

02:25:27.000 That disgusting baseball bat to meat sound. 1.00

02:25:32.000 Yeah, it's been very interesting to see the evolution of the stand-up striking in MMA. Now for a guy like you standing on the outside and watching this, it's got to be really interesting for you too, you know, coming from that pure striking background and seeing all the things that MMA fighters and,

02:25:52.000 you know, in the stand-up aspect, what they do wrong.

02:25:56.000 Yeah, what works in my sport doesn't work in MMA either.

02:26:00.000 You can't throw body kicks really in MMA, otherwise they can catch it and take you straight down. 0.70

02:26:04.000 There's a lot of guys winning by body kick now.

02:26:06.000 A lot of guys are stopping guys, especially with that left kick to the liver.

02:26:10.000 Man, that left kick to the body, when they're standing in the southpaw position, you're seeing Liotta Machida won by that.

02:26:15.000 A lot of guys are winning by that kick.

02:26:17.000 The Steven Seagal tipped in the face?

02:26:18.000 No. 1.00

02:26:19.000 That's rare, but man, that fucking shit works. 1.00

02:26:23.000 You know, it's weird. 1.00

02:26:24.000 Teeps very rarely knock anybody out in Muay Thai.

02:26:26.000 No one teeps in MMA. Well, a few guys do, but we were talking about it last night that the stance is so different in MMA and you're still worried about the takedowns and the grappling aspect.

02:26:37.000 You might open the door to front kicks and things along those lines.

02:26:40.000 Yep.

02:26:42.000 It's one of my main weapons.

02:26:44.000 I wouldn't be able to throw it hardly as much.

02:26:46.000 When I came over to America to try and learn a little bit of MMA, I had a fight back in 2007 against a gentleman called Tony Bonello.

02:26:53.000 And then I got over here, and then everything I tried to do, they said, oh, you can't do that.

02:26:57.000 You can't do more than three or four punches, otherwise you're going to get taken down.

02:27:00.000 You can't body kick, they'll catch you, they'll take you down.

02:27:02.000 This is the coach that's telling you this.

02:27:03.000 Yeah, yeah, and I got to the stage where I was like, what?

02:27:05.000 What's your coach?

02:27:06.000 Who's the coach telling you that?

02:27:08.000 Thomas Denny.

02:27:09.000 Hmm, okay.

02:27:10.000 He's a good dude, but you should have been with a guy like Farras.

02:27:14.000 A guy like Farras would have figured out what to do with him.

02:27:16.000 Looking back, he was closest to my wife's family, so it just seemed to make sense.

02:27:23.000 I actually trained with the guys down at Orange County.

02:27:34.000 No, no.

02:27:37.000 What's...

02:27:37.000 Eric Poulsen.

02:27:39.000 Oh, okay.

02:27:39.000 Eric Poulsen.

02:27:40.000 A lot of crazy grappling.

02:27:41.000 He's got a lot of cat wrestling history.

02:27:43.000 It's a few-hour drive.

02:27:45.000 Do you want to hear a funny story?

02:27:46.000 Sure.

02:27:47.000 Should I tell this one?

02:27:48.000 I was going to say it.

02:27:49.000 So I meet Cub Swanson.

02:27:52.000 Cub Swanson's a cool dude, and we're hanging out.

02:27:55.000 And then my first day at Eric Paulson's gym, it's Muay Thai day, okay?

02:28:01.000 And I'm the new guy.

02:28:02.000 I know nothing.

02:28:03.000 No one knows who I am.

02:28:05.000 And then Eric Paulson's like, okay, Muay Thai guys, put your gear on guys.

02:28:08.000 Okay, so Josh Barnett, you spy this guy.

02:28:13.000 He points to me.

02:28:15.000 So we start, and I'm moving around, inside kick, jab, and then Josh throws something, I'm like out, and then I'm in, boom, boom, boom, and I'm going again.

02:28:24.000 He throws a kick, whoa, air.

02:28:27.000 I like the sounds.

02:28:29.000 He's a big dude.

02:28:30.000 He's a big dude.

02:28:30.000 He's quite a big dude.

02:28:31.000 I'm in and out, in and out, fearing for my life, just tapping away.

02:28:34.000 And then we do two rounds.

02:28:36.000 After two rounds, he takes his glove off and he throws it across the room.

02:28:41.000 He takes his shin pad off, throws it across the room.

02:28:44.000 He packs his bag.

02:28:45.000 He storms out.

02:28:46.000 And then they go on to Tokyo the next day to fight on the New Year's Eve Pride tournament.

02:28:52.000 I forget who it was against.

02:28:54.000 And then about a week passes.

02:28:57.000 Josh loses his fight.

02:28:59.000 I got a phone call from Eric Poulsen about three or four days later, once I got back, and I said, Hey, this is Eric.

02:29:06.000 How are you going?

02:29:07.000 I just want to let you know that we blame you on Josh's loss because he was fine right up until he spired you, and then some kid that he'd never seen before owned him in the sparring and took away all his confidence.

02:29:19.000 So when he got to Japan, he was a mess. 0.88

02:29:22.000 No way.

02:29:23.000 This is a true story.

02:29:24.000 I kid you not. 0.95

02:29:25.000 Well, first of all, how ridiculous are they to take a guy like you where they don't, you know... 0.69

02:29:31.000 I was just that new guy in the gym. 0.74

02:29:33.000 It's like, oh, yeah, you spot him. 0.97

02:29:34.000 That's ridiculous. 0.95

02:29:34.000 Oh, okay. 0.95

02:29:35.000 Why would they do that?

02:29:36.000 That's one of the problems with high-level MMA as opposed to, like, high-level boxing.

02:29:41.000 Could you imagine Floyd Mayweather preparing for a fight not knowing the training partner?

02:29:46.000 Training partner goes in. 0.98

02:29:48.000 It turns out to be some fucking unbeatable world champion. 0.99

02:29:51.000 Boxes him up and fucks him up right before a big fight. 0.99

02:29:54.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.77

02:29:54.000 It never would happen. 0.77

02:29:55.000 An 80-kilo kid versus a 130-kilo guy, and then he's fighting on pride, which he shouldn't.

02:30:02.000 Yeah, it didn't make sense to me, but I found it quite amusing, though.

02:30:05.000 It is kind of amusing, but I mean, I can see it from Josh's point of view, too.

02:30:10.000 He had no idea.

02:30:11.000 No, no idea.

02:30:12.000 I mean, imagine you're expecting just some average guy in the gym that's smaller than you, and then you just run into some multiple-time world Muay Thai champion who just happens to be in town.

02:30:22.000 I think, sorry, the day before might have been Jiu-Jitsu Day.

02:30:24.000 So the day before, there was my first ever Jiu-Jitsu Day.

02:30:27.000 This is not the day I broke my finger, but it's like...

02:30:29.000 So you were there getting strangled?

02:30:30.000 So I went in, I think, Cubs Guard, and then Eric's like, all right, go!

02:30:36.000 He goes, try and do something to him.

02:30:36.000 Go where?

02:30:38.000 I don't know what to do.

02:30:40.000 And then I'm putting there, I'm getting tapped every 30 seconds.

02:30:44.000 And the next day is Muay Thai Day and all of a sudden I put my cape on, I take my shirt off, I've got a big S on my chest.

02:30:50.000 I turn into Superman.

02:30:51.000 And yeah, I light up Josh Barnett and then all of a sudden, yeah, he's very cranky.

02:30:56.000 Yeah, I would imagine.

02:30:57.000 That's one of the things that a lot of fighters who are really good at one style have a huge issue with is learning. 0.80

02:31:04.000 Like a lot of wrestlers, they never really developed the ability to strike because they would start sparring and they would get fucked up and they'd be like, I hate this. 0.97

02:31:11.000 I just want to take these guys down. 0.98

02:31:13.000 That's what I do.

02:31:14.000 Or a lot of jujitsu guys, they didn't want to learn how to kickbox.

02:31:17.000 Or a lot of strikers, they just didn't want to learn jujitsu.

02:31:19.000 It's just like you were saying, you're a world champion and then you would go in there and you wouldn't know what to do and you didn't like it.

02:31:25.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:31:27.000 Yeah, it wasn't mine.

02:31:28.000 And then the whole thing, for me personally as well, was in between another gentleman's legs.

02:31:33.000 It's okay, push your hips in. 0.73

02:31:35.000 It's like, oh, I don't know.

02:31:36.000 I can't push my hips in.

02:31:38.000 We'll get some.

02:31:39.000 There's only one way.

02:31:40.000 I don't know. 1.00

02:31:41.000 You've got to fuck your way to victory. 1.00

02:31:46.000 Yeah, I know. 1.00

02:31:47.000 It gets weird.

02:31:48.000 Well, also, dudes sweat in your mouth sometimes.

02:31:50.000 Sometimes people are mounting you.

02:31:53.000 What is it?

02:31:54.000 The 69 position thing?

02:31:57.000 Yeah, that's rough.

02:31:57.000 North-South is called.

02:31:58.000 North-South.

02:31:59.000 Yeah.

02:32:00.000 I can't remember, my brother was telling me in one of the camps he went to with one of our boys, the guy had dip in his mouth.

02:32:06.000 While he was training?

02:32:07.000 While he was training?

02:32:08.000 I'm not saying his name.

02:32:10.000 Kevin Randleman.

02:32:11.000 Was it American wrestling camp?

02:32:14.000 I think it was Kevin Randleman or someone.

02:32:16.000 I'm not sure it was.

02:32:17.000 Randleman had dip in his mouth?

02:32:18.000 I don't know.

02:32:20.000 But yeah, they had dip in and they were just doing a little private lesson with them.

02:32:25.000 The dip was just going all over. 1.00

02:32:26.000 Jesus fucking Christ. 1.00

02:32:28.000 That's so disgusting. 1.00

02:32:29.000 I don't know who it was.

02:32:31.000 Yeah, well that's the thing about MMA as opposed to like we said like boxing like their camps are incredibly organized and they bring in people to mimic a very specific opponent.

02:32:42.000 They would never have a situation where they just have a class and a world-class fighters is taking a class with a bunch of strangers.

02:32:42.000 Yes.

02:32:49.000 Yes.

02:32:50.000 That still exists in MMA. You know, and some people think it's a good thing.

02:32:53.000 You know, some people think it's cute.

02:32:56.000 But I just think, you know, what you were saying before about George preparing for Johnny Hendricks, very specific style, and this is the things that will work best against this very specific stance and style.

02:33:06.000 I mean, I think that's the future.

02:33:07.000 I think when you're dealing with the highest level athletes in combat sports in MMA, you're going to have to have these really meticulously designed training camps.

02:33:17.000 For me, I watch the Rotor UFCs and they're coming up and they spend so much time hitting the tire with the hammer.

02:33:27.000 They've got the ropes on this and they're doing all the sprints with the parachute but they can't throw a straight jab.

02:33:34.000 It's like all those hours spending getting fit when you could have spent in the gym just perfecting that style.

02:33:40.000 And then I go back to Thailand and the Thais don't lift weights. 1.00

02:33:43.000 All they do is hit pads, run, kick back, like cavemen.

02:33:46.000 And it's been for 2,000 years, but everything's so perfect.

02:33:52.000 And their bodies are ripped up.

02:33:53.000 And I think to myself, I'd rather look like a Thai fully ripped and fit than a half-bodybuilder trying to pretend I'm a rock-on-one wrestler with the... 1.00

02:34:03.000 Well, there's a lot of fighters that believe that there's sort of a point of diminishing returns when it comes to strength and conditioning, but there's a balance that has to be achieved.

02:34:11.000 When you're dealing with grappling and you're dealing with takedowns and the ability to explode and shoot a double...

02:34:19.000 A double leg takedown.

02:34:21.000 It's like, I think a certain amount of strength and conditioning is necessary.

02:34:24.000 I think it's different though with striking.

02:34:26.000 I think with striking, efficiency of movement, you know, also your body becomes accustomed to those techniques, so you have, with more efficiency of movement, you have more, you use less energy.

02:34:37.000 Yes.

02:34:38.000 And you don't get exhausted.

02:34:39.000 Whereas you're seeing a lot of these guys that are in great shape, Great strength and conditioning programs.

02:34:45.000 They're physically strong.

02:34:45.000 They're fit.

02:34:46.000 They have a lot of muscle, but they don't have a lot of physical efficiency in their movements when it comes to striking.

02:34:52.000 And they're emphasizing strength. 1.00

02:34:54.000 You see them fucking, fucking... 1.00

02:34:56.000 Everything is like wide punches. 1.00

02:34:59.000 It doesn't look as fluid.

02:35:02.000 Whereas if you're watching like, you know, like Yotsin Klai or like you or like Bula Khao, you're seeing like a really relaxed, like the execution is very relaxed.

02:35:11.000 Yes.

02:35:12.000 Yeah, and the excess muscle mass that makes you more tired as well, whereas you'd rather be like a lean greyhound.

02:35:12.000 Yeah.

02:35:21.000 But then you got these motherfuckers that take you down, you know, and you can't get back up and you get exhausted from the takedowns and, you know, the grappling is a different... 0.98

02:35:30.000 It's so different when you add the grappling. 0.97

02:35:33.000 Because the way George beat BJ Penn was so clever.

02:35:36.000 Because BJ was a very good striker.

02:35:38.000 And he's wicked with his hand speed. 0.99

02:35:41.000 So George just tied his ass up and made him exhaust his arms. 0.98

02:35:45.000 And BJ was not known for a guy who concentrated on strength and conditioning until really after those fights. 0.98

02:35:51.000 After the fight with George is when he got down with the Marinovichs.

02:35:56.000 And the Marinovich era of...

02:35:59.000 When he was at his best, I think, was when he was doing, maybe, why did I think he fought George after that?

02:36:08.000 I might be wrong.

02:36:09.000 The best BJ Penn, though, was BJ Penn, who went through that Mark Marinovich strength and conditioning program, because it was just unbelievably brutal.

02:36:19.000 They would show it on, you know, the countdown shows. 0.98

02:36:21.000 You just see all the shit that he was doing. 0.99

02:36:23.000 And he was talking about he couldn't even hold his kid at night. 0.99

02:36:25.000 He was so sore and exhausted.

02:36:28.000 His body was just broken down.

02:36:29.000 But Marv Brnovich put him in like this insane...

02:36:33.000 He was famous as like a strength and conditioning guy because his son was like his prodigy and his son kind of went crazy because he disciplined him so hard.

02:36:41.000 He was so like... 0.95

02:36:42.000 Into training, but his son was like a football prodigy from his dad's strength and conditioning programs, and he instilled this program on BJ Penn that he just was fucking unbelievable. 0.65

02:36:55.000 But what happened out of it was you got this BJ who didn't get tired, and BJ Penn had so much skill.

02:37:01.000 He had so much talent and so much heart and determination, but all of a sudden he has this never-ending gas tank, which you never saw from BJ Penn before.

02:37:09.000 So in MMA, man, it's like sometimes it's necessary, and sometimes it's like trying to find that balance, though, of how much skill training and how much strength and conditioning.

02:37:20.000 Because all the skill training in the world, if you get exhausted because you're wrestling with a guy who's just shooting on you and taking you down all the time, it's just...

02:37:28.000 Yeah, they don't understand.

02:37:29.000 It's almost like MMA has too much going on.

02:37:31.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:37:32.000 It looks like that on the road of UFC shows.

02:37:35.000 It looks like someone's training here, then they're jumping in a car for four hours and doing something over there, then they're back over here for two hours from in a pool.

02:37:41.000 Yeah.

02:37:42.000 Yeah, it's crazy.

02:37:43.000 It's almost like there's too much going on in a fight, too.

02:37:45.000 But that's also what makes it so crazy.

02:37:47.000 It's like to be the best at that.

02:37:49.000 You know, you be the best at that.

02:37:51.000 But one of the things you're seeing is the guys that are the best They're good at certain things, you know?

02:37:57.000 Like, you don't see Anderson Silva shooting double leg takedowns, mounting guys, spinning for arm bars.

02:38:03.000 I mean, he's caught a few submissions in his day, but usually catches him after he fucks somebody up, like Dan Henderson. 0.95

02:38:09.000 He fucked him up and then he got his back and choked him. 0.98

02:38:12.000 Or like Chael Sonnen, where Chael Sonnen just fucked up and laid in his guard and he caught him with a triangle. 0.98

02:38:17.000 But what you're used to seeing him do is kickboxing guys, you know? 0.81

02:38:21.000 Yeah.

02:38:23.000 Rumble Johnson is a perfect example.

02:38:25.000 He's one of the top contenders at 205. You're not going to see him guillotine anybody.

02:38:29.000 He's not triangling anybody.

02:38:31.000 He's stepping forward and blasting people with punches and kicks.

02:38:34.000 I mean, that's what he does.

02:38:35.000 And it's almost like to be the very best is really hard to be good at everything.

02:38:41.000 There's only a few guys that are dangerous everywhere.

02:38:44.000 Like Anthony Pettis is so weird because he's dangerous everywhere. 0.97

02:38:47.000 He's dangerous standing up, and then you catch him on his back, and he's fucking catching you in armbar. 0.96

02:38:53.000 It's weird. 0.96

02:38:54.000 It's like he's one of the few guys who's just dangerous everywhere.

02:38:57.000 Cerrone.

02:38:58.000 Cerrone's dangerous everywhere.

02:38:59.000 Cerrone. 0.95

02:39:00.000 Dangerous off his back, which is one of the reasons why he's so willing to kick. 0.96

02:39:03.000 Yep.

02:39:03.000 Not worried about getting taken down.

02:39:05.000 Yep.

02:39:05.000 You know, his triangle, his arm bar, all his guard games, vicious.

02:39:09.000 Yeah, that fight with Miles Juri.

02:39:12.000 It was unbelievable.

02:39:13.000 Oh, dude, the end when he's throwing those kicks to his legs.

02:39:16.000 The first 30 seconds when Miles went to take him down and he turned it into a shoulder lock.

02:39:23.000 Yeah, I was like, whoa, that's pretty high level right there.

02:39:26.000 He's no joke.

02:39:27.000 Yeah, he can do everything.

02:39:28.000 I mean, I think he's only got a brown belt in jujitsu, I think, like on paper or whatever.

02:39:32.000 But the way I see him move, it's black belt level. 1.00

02:39:36.000 He's very razor sharp on the ground.

02:39:39.000 But again, how many of those guys can do everything?

02:39:43.000 What would happen if Johnny Hendricks was fighting off his back?

02:39:45.000 Do you think Johnny Hendricks has a triangle?

02:39:48.000 How many times has Robbie Lawler caught a guy in an armbar?

02:39:51.000 Some of the really best guys in the sport, they're good at a certain aspect of it.

02:39:57.000 I don't know.

02:40:13.000 Do you see yourself working with more MMA fighters?

02:40:16.000 I hope so.

02:40:17.000 I really enjoy working with everyone and moving around, training different people, and then meeting celebrities like yourself, and then doing stuff with you even.

02:40:26.000 Today was so much fun.

02:40:27.000 Dude, I wish you lived close.

02:40:28.000 I do it with you every week.

02:40:29.000 That was fun, man.

02:40:30.000 I learned a lot today.

02:40:32.000 It was a short amount of time, but especially that style of punching and movement in combination with kicks and knees.

02:40:39.000 Yeah, I believe I've got a lot to offer when it comes to just broadening people's idea of how to execute different strikes.

02:40:49.000 I want to try and maximize the power out of every single thing that I throw.

02:40:53.000 Whether it be a hook, uppercut, a knee or a head kick, I want to try and destroy anything that I land on.

02:41:03.000 Let it be forearm, thigh, nose, face, neck.

02:41:06.000 That's a very different approach than, say, a modern boxing approach.

02:41:09.000 Whereas you're seeing guys in corners, they'll come back to the corner and the corner will say, just touch them, touch them with the jab, touch them with this, touch them with that.

02:41:16.000 There's a lot of guys, maybe like Nick Diaz is a good example, who's throwing a lot of punches, he's just touching you.

02:41:22.000 30, 30, 70. Yeah.

02:41:25.000 But also that intimidation factor also.

02:41:27.000 If I hit you hard, you don't want to be hit by me again.

02:41:29.000 Right.

02:41:30.000 So I want to just keep chipping. 0.80

02:41:31.000 If I hit you with a jab, that hurts.

02:41:33.000 Okay, I'll go just something off. 0.99

02:41:34.000 I hit you with a leg kick. 1.00

02:41:35.000 Okay, I want to make that really hurt also. 0.98

02:41:37.000 And it gets to the stage where I'm in your head now.

02:41:40.000 And then once I know I'm in your head, then it makes it a lot easier for me to start picking things.

02:41:44.000 Right.

02:41:44.000 Is there a different approach to fighting in a Muay Thai fight where it's three rounds with no grappling as opposed to MMA which is five rounds with grappling and then maybe that sort of style of like so much fucking energy and hard to maintain conditioning for that?

02:41:59.000 Michael Johnson last night Fuck yeah! 0.98

02:42:01.000 Yeah, that was amazing. 1.00

02:42:02.000 Goddamn, he looked good. 0.97

02:42:03.000 That was awesome. 0.97

02:42:04.000 And he maintained the whole three rounds too.

02:42:05.000 15 minutes are just crazy.

02:42:07.000 Michael Johnson, man, he's really looking good these days.

02:42:09.000 That was cool.

02:42:10.000 Last night was probably his most impressive performance because Edson Barboza is a very good striker and he just attacked, attacked, like right from the beginning.

02:42:19.000 He's a wrestler.

02:42:20.000 He's another guy, you know, just a great athlete who has immersed himself.

02:42:20.000 Yeah.

02:42:24.000 Yep.

02:42:25.000 Have you ever trained with Henry Hoost, the guy who's the head coach of the Black Zillions?

02:42:30.000 No.

02:42:31.000 It'd be interesting to see Hoost.

02:42:33.000 He's got a lot of guys down there that he's really improved in big ways.

02:42:37.000 He's got that Dutch style, the Holland kickboxing style.

02:42:42.000 He's teaching these guys, showing big improvements, too, in a lot of the fighters.

02:42:46.000 Yep.

02:42:48.000 I'm here for just the one week and I'm lucky to do a few seminars around town.

02:42:52.000 Where are the seminars if people want to go?

02:42:54.000 You have one on Friday night, right?

02:42:56.000 I know you have Friday night.

02:42:58.000 So tomorrow night we've got one at Faction MMA, which is Gracie Hermita, Carlsbad.

02:43:07.000 It's at 6.30.

02:43:07.000 Carlsbad, California.

02:43:10.000 And then the next night is at the Art of Eight.

02:43:13.000 The Art of Eight, Art of Eight Limbs, 8 Weapons, Melcher.

02:43:17.000 Where's his place?

02:43:18.000 That's in Miramar.

02:43:20.000 Sort of convoy road area.

02:43:23.000 And then that was Wednesday night.

02:43:26.000 Thursday night is that elite training in Redondo Beach, I think it is.

02:43:31.000 And then Friday night is at Joseph's, which is the Sub Factory.

02:43:36.000 Which place?

02:43:37.000 Sub Factory.

02:43:38.000 Sub Factory, where's that at?

02:43:38.000 Which is the North Hollywood one.

02:43:40.000 It's one of Eddie's gyms.

02:43:43.000 Oh, okay.

02:43:43.000 Yeah.

02:43:43.000 Oh, okay.

02:43:44.000 And then Saturday morning is with Muay Thai School of USA. Saturday morning, the day of the fights?

02:43:52.000 Yep, at 10 a.m.

02:43:54.000 Oh, great.

02:43:54.000 Where's that?

02:43:55.000 That's in North Hollywood, too.

02:43:57.000 Okay, cool.

02:43:58.000 That's a big gym out here, right?

02:44:00.000 Yeah, really big.

02:44:00.000 Yep.

02:44:01.000 They've got a lot of guys coming.

02:44:02.000 Is there a website where people can go that are listening to this and didn't get a chance to write it down?

02:44:06.000 We'll just put it on John Wayne Parr's fan page.

02:44:11.000 Okay, John Wayne Parr fan page on Facebook and John Wayne Parr's Twitter account.

02:44:15.000 All the dates will be up on there and all the times and all that stuff?

02:44:18.000 Yes, yes.

02:44:19.000 Beautiful.

02:44:20.000 Anything else, brother?

02:44:21.000 If you get an opportunity, I have a documentary that I've just released on YouTube called Blessed with Venom.

02:44:27.000 It's a 90-minute documentary.

02:44:28.000 When it was released in Australia, it had two weeks in cinemas.

02:44:32.000 And then the company that put it out for me, once it was finished, they sort of lost my phone number.

02:44:39.000 And I didn't hear anything from them for like three or four years. 1.00

02:44:43.000 So now I thought, you know what, fuck you. 0.99

02:44:45.000 I'm putting it on YouTube for free. 0.99

02:44:47.000 So if anyone wants to see it, it's up there.

02:44:49.000 They lost your phone number?

02:44:50.000 Literally lost your phone number or they just stopped calling you?

02:44:53.000 They stopped calling me.

02:44:54.000 They were going to do DVD sales.

02:44:56.000 I don't know what happened to that.

02:44:57.000 I was getting messages from people in Brazil saying, we've just watched a documentary in Brazil with subtitles.

02:45:03.000 Absolutely amazing documentary.

02:45:04.000 And I'm thinking, where's all this money going?

02:45:06.000 They surely wouldn't have gave it to the Brazil TV for free.

02:45:10.000 I didn't make one cent from the documentary, so I thought it got to the stage.

02:45:15.000 Who are these people, just so nobody else has to know who they are?

02:45:19.000 They know who they are?

02:45:20.000 Yeah, but it was amazing.

02:45:23.000 I can't thank them enough for making the documentary.

02:45:26.000 But now it's on YouTube for free, so if anyone wants to watch it, it's called Blessed with Venom, and it's going to Thailand, visiting my old camp, interviewing Yod-Sing Lai and other Thai opponents, Sanchai, the traditions about going to fighting at Lumpini Stadium, and lots of highlights of old fights.

02:45:43.000 I watched it this morning.

02:45:44.000 It was pretty fucking badass. 0.95

02:45:46.000 It's really cool. 0.96

02:45:47.000 It's got to be cool having a documentary on you like that.

02:45:49.000 Yeah, and when you're still alive, too. 0.98

02:45:52.000 We know it's not bullshit that way.

02:45:53.000 When it was released in cinemas too, the first night that premiered, it had a red carpet and we had 450 people in the cinema. 0.87

02:46:01.000 And then I flew my mum and my nana and the family together.

02:46:04.000 And it was...

02:46:06.000 then my head was three stories high.

02:46:09.000 It was such a cool buzz.

02:46:11.000 Wow.

02:46:12.000 One of those things where you pinch yourself and you can't believe this is happening.

02:46:15.000 But now it's on YouTube, so it's pretty cool.

02:46:17.000 And then if you don't know much about Muay Thai and you want to find out about the culture, this is the perfect documentary to realize that we're not bad guys, we're not thugs, we're just everyday guys trying to make it in a sport where it involves punching other people in the face. 0.82

02:46:30.000 Well, you're people that are involved in a very unusual quest, you know, the quest to get excellent at using your limbs to fuck up other dudes who are really good at using their limbs to fuck up other dudes.

02:46:43.000 I mean, it's about as exciting a sport and as exciting an endeavor as you could participate in, you know? 0.86

02:46:50.000 It's beautiful, man.

02:46:51.000 And it was an honor to have you on here.

02:46:53.000 Honor to train with you.

02:46:55.000 In my world, you're a huge star.

02:46:59.000 And you've always been a big name in Muay Thai and kickboxing.

02:47:03.000 So it was cool to meet you when I met you at the UFC. And it was cool to do this, man.

02:47:06.000 I really, really appreciate it.

02:47:07.000 I have no idea how much it means for me to watch you from the UFC every single weekend.

02:47:13.000 And then to talk to you on Twitter, I think a little bit of we come out when you replied to me for the first time.

02:47:19.000 It was so cool.

02:47:20.000 And then to have a relationship.

02:47:22.000 To have a relationship.

02:47:22.000 A little bit of we.

02:47:25.000 I've traveled all the way from Australia to arrive here yesterday to actually sit across from you and to be in this room is so surreal and so amazing.

02:47:33.000 Let's do it again, man.

02:47:34.000 Let's do it again.

02:47:35.000 Tell me when you're going to be back here again.

02:47:36.000 Beautiful.

02:47:37.000 I'll be in touch.

02:47:38.000 Yeah, let's set it up.

02:47:39.000 Let's set it up and try to set up some seminars, too.

02:47:41.000 Maybe we can connect with some people that would like to do more seminars out here in America.

02:47:45.000 Let's make it happen.

02:47:45.000 That'd be amazing.

02:47:46.000 John. 0.99

02:47:47.000 Wayne motherfucking Parr, ladies and gentlemen. 0.99

02:47:49.000 His actual name is Wayne Parr, just so you know. 0.99

02:47:52.000 That's my secret.

02:47:53.000 They made him go by John Wayne Parr.

02:47:56.000 But they call you John Will in...

02:47:57.000 John Will.

02:47:58.000 In Thailand, right? 0.71

02:47:59.000 In Thailand, Thailand.

02:48:00.000 Thank you very much, man.

02:48:00.000 All right, brother.

02:48:01.000 Thank you.

02:48:02.000 Thank you.

02:48:02.000 My pleasure.

02:48:25.000 Thank you.

The Joe Rogan Experience - February 23, 2015

Joe Rogan Experience #616 - John Wayne Parr

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript