The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #637 - Remi Warren

00:00:00.000 Okay, we're live.

00:00:02.000 Remy Warren, how are you, fella?

00:00:03.000 Pretty good, how's it going?

00:00:04.000 What's going on?

00:00:04.000 I watched the show last night.

00:00:05.000 Oh, did you?

00:00:06.000 Good.

00:00:06.000 Yeah, and I watched it again today.

00:00:09.000 The show's called Apex Predator.

00:00:11.000 It's on Thursday nights on the Sportsman's Channel?

00:00:13.000 Yep, 8 p.m.

00:00:14.000 And this is a show that last time you came in with Dan Doty, we kind of talked about it off the record, right?

00:00:20.000 We couldn't talk about it yet.

00:00:21.000 Yeah, it was kind of like in the wind there.

00:00:22.000 It was...

00:00:23.000 We didn't have a network for it yet.

00:00:25.000 We filmed the pilot episode, and now it's a real deal now.

00:00:30.000 Yeah, now it's actually on television.

00:00:32.000 Yeah, it's a real show.

00:00:33.000 It's cool when stuff like that happens, right?

00:00:35.000 Yeah, it is.

00:00:35.000 You plan it out, you work, and it actually comes together, and you have a real television show.

00:00:39.000 Yeah, it's pretty exciting.

00:00:41.000 I've been pretty pumped about it, because this is something that I've been thinking about for years, and then we came in, what was it?

00:00:49.000 It's quite a while ago.

00:00:50.000 Over a year ago.

00:00:51.000 Something like that.

00:00:52.000 And now it's finally come to fruition and people can look at what I've been talking about for the last couple of years. 0.98

00:00:58.000 It takes a long time to make something fucking happen, man. 0.94

00:01:01.000 It's this hurry up and wait game. 0.98

00:01:03.000 My buddy was in the army and he's like, yeah, war is just hurry up and wait.

00:01:08.000 And I was like, that's television.

00:01:10.000 War is hurry up and wait?

00:01:12.000 Wow, that's a jaded individual. 1.00

00:01:16.000 Come on, can we just get to killing folks? 0.99

00:01:19.000 The show is...

00:01:21.000 What you're doing on the show is you're essentially emulating a lot of tactics that various predators use, and you're using these tactics to get close and figure out how to hunt animals.

00:01:35.000 The one I saw last night was the buffalo one.

00:01:37.000 Oh, sweet.

00:01:38.000 Where you put a coyote outfit on and we're crawling up to these buffalo, and it's kind of fascinating that...

00:01:45.000 They don't run necessarily from coyotes or wolves that just sort of walk towards them.

00:01:51.000 The only time the coyotes or the wolves would actually attack them is if they were running.

00:01:56.000 That's when they would move in on them.

00:01:58.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:01:59.000 Because the way wolves hunt is they have to get the animals running first.

00:02:04.000 And tomorrow night's episode, we'll really see that when we look at the way wolves hunt.

00:02:08.000 But the reason that the wolf has to get the buffalo running is the wolf's essentially outclassed by the bison.

00:02:15.000 It's so much larger.

00:02:16.000 So if the bisons say, we're going to stand here and fight. 1.00

00:02:20.000 I think?

00:02:39.000 And then they attack from the back and they're safer and they're more successful.

00:02:45.000 So the bison know this.

00:02:46.000 So if they run, well, they're going to be in trouble.

00:02:49.000 But when a human hunter comes along using primitive weapons or whatever, the human hunter needs that animal to stand still in order to kill it.

00:02:57.000 So when the bison sees a human, it runs because that's how it stays safe.

00:03:01.000 So, you know, the point of this show is really dissecting the way nature does things.

00:03:07.000 And you look at, like, every animal is so specialized.

00:03:09.000 It does something really well.

00:03:11.000 And everything falls into a certain niche.

00:03:14.000 And as a human looking at nature, we look at it and go, man, what can we learn?

00:03:19.000 Like, humans are an amazing species.

00:03:21.000 And what I've come to realize is we've adapted a lot of the techniques and tactics that That a certain animal specializes in or does really well and use it for ourselves to become this essential top predator.

00:03:37.000 So, you know, looking at this, the Plains Indians, we looked at a George Catlin painting.

00:03:41.000 It's a pretty famous painting.

00:03:43.000 Yeah, let's see if we can get that painting, Jamie.

00:03:46.000 It's a really famous painting.

00:03:47.000 It's really cool.

00:03:48.000 You describe it?

00:03:49.000 Yeah, there's two Plains Indians sneaking up on a herd of bison underneath these white wolf skins. 0.98

00:03:54.000 And I'd seen that, you know, I've always thought that was an awesome picture.

00:03:58.000 How do you spell his name?

00:03:59.000 George...

00:03:59.000 Catlin.

00:04:00.000 C-A-I-T-L-I-N. And, uh... 1.00

00:04:05.000 Yeah, so he paints this picture of supposedly what he saw, but you never really know these artist types.

00:04:12.000 This is from the 1800s.

00:04:16.000 Yeah, I mean, this is a pretty old photo or painting. 0.99

00:04:19.000 So it was kind of a gamble whether or not this guy was a bullshit artist. 0.78

00:04:22.000 Yeah, he was kind of... 0.98

00:04:23.000 He was kind of going out west and painting what he saw or what he interpreted to see.

00:04:28.000 And so I've always thought, oh, I wonder if that's really true.

00:04:31.000 But when you dissect it, obviously those Plains Indians sitting around saw that, oh, when those wolves are there, those bison aren't running.

00:04:40.000 Well, let's throw some of those skins on our back and see what happens. 1.00

00:04:43.000 And through the show, we find out that...

00:04:47.000 No, that's not it.

00:04:48.000 Top left corner there.

00:04:49.000 Yeah, there it is.

00:04:51.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:04:52.000 Yeah, let's pull that sucker up. 1.00

00:04:55.000 Wow, that's crazy that they really did that. 0.99

00:04:57.000 Yeah.

00:04:58.000 They must have.

00:04:59.000 Yeah.

00:04:59.000 I mean, it makes perfect sense if you're sitting there and see the correlation between the wolves and the bison, and you come to this illogical conclusion that if we act like a wolf, the bison will stay there.

00:05:12.000 What kind of bison there were back then, too? 1.00

00:05:14.000 Oh, millions.

00:05:15.000 God!

00:05:16.000 And that's, on that episode, Steve, you know, he's the bison expert.

00:05:19.000 Yeah.

00:05:20.000 And, uh...

00:05:21.000 Just how many bison were there?

00:05:23.000 He was telling me that they used to find the bison by giant clouds from their breath.

00:05:28.000 It'd make, like, huge clouds.

00:05:31.000 What?!

00:05:32.000 That's what Steve was telling me.

00:05:33.000 Wow!

00:05:34.000 I mean, millions, millions of bison.

00:05:36.000 Well, you know, there's a guy named Dan Flores that's a good friend of Steve's as well, and he is a real bison expert, and he's written a very controversial paper on what happened to the bison.

00:05:49.000 And what he's saying is that he compares...

00:05:53.000 He's going to be on the podcast soon, as soon as he's done with his book, hopefully by sometime in the summer.

00:05:59.000 And what his paper is basically saying is that the Plains Indians, once they had figured out how to ride horses and shoot from horses, were already on the way to wiping out the buffalo.

00:06:13.000 And the reason why the buffalo were in such high numbers was because so many people, so many Native Americans, had died from smallpox.

00:06:22.000 And if you go back before the smallpox epidemic, the people that arrived in North America, like the Dutch, when they had made an accounting of all the different animals, they talked about turkeys and deer and elk and bear.

00:06:36.000 No mention whatsoever of buffalo.

00:06:39.000 And they were visiting all these same areas that 200 years later had millions of buffalo.

00:06:45.000 But during that 200 years, 90% of the Native Americans had been wiped out by smallpox.

00:06:51.000 Really?

00:06:52.000 During that and they were apparently like probably the number one predator of these bison I'm probably doing a really shitty job of explaining this that makes sense I mean they would do things like like the buffalo jumps mm-hmm where just drive Herds of bison off a cliff cliffs and they apparently the wolves would feed in because they're just be dead I mean you couldn't Take all that meat.

00:07:15.000 If you've got a small village, you're taking what you can use, there'd be dead bison everywhere. 1.00

00:07:21.000 And the wolves would come in and gorge on them.

00:07:23.000 I guess there was an account where there was wolves so full on food that you're just laying there in excess, just gorged.

00:07:32.000 And they were just hanging around next to the Native Americans?

00:07:34.000 Well, where the buffalo jumped off the cliffs.

00:07:36.000 But the Native Americans were down there, too, with the wolves? 0.70

00:07:39.000 No, I think...

00:07:40.000 I don't know if they would move on.

00:07:41.000 At a certain point, the meat's going to go bad.

00:07:44.000 And then the wolves would just keep eating.

00:07:46.000 And the wolves would just keep eating and eating and eating. 1.00

00:07:48.000 Fuck. 1.00

00:07:49.000 Because apparently, a wolf's can... 1.00

00:07:50.000 They can gorge, like, hungry like a wolf that's really hungry.

00:07:54.000 Duran Duran was on to something.

00:07:56.000 Yeah, because they'll eat...

00:07:58.000 I read something that was like 25 pounds in a sitting and they can process that meat in two hours.

00:08:06.000 So they'll just eat and eat and eat.

00:08:09.000 25 pounds of meat processing.

00:08:12.000 Imagine if you ate a 25 pound turkey.

00:08:14.000 Like you went to the supermarket and picked up a 25 pound turkey and you ate it yourself.

00:08:19.000 And there's never been a wolf bigger than a human being, right?

00:08:22.000 The biggest wolf ever is probably like 200 pounds, right?

00:08:25.000 Ever.

00:08:25.000 Yeah.

00:08:26.000 So we're talking about, you know, a 150-pound wolf, which is the size of a normal man, can eat 25 fucking pounds and go through it in two hours. 0.99

00:08:35.000 That's insane! 0.99

00:08:36.000 That's crazy.

00:08:36.000 That's insane!

00:08:38.000 It's competitive eating at its finest.

00:08:40.000 Well, their bite power is also freaky.

00:08:42.000 I didn't know.

00:08:43.000 Ricky Gervais told me, and I was like, this guy's got to be wrong.

00:08:46.000 He said that a wolf has a bite that's five times more powerful than a pit bull.

00:08:51.000 I'm like, how could that be true?

00:08:52.000 Oh, yeah?

00:08:53.000 It's true. 0.98

00:08:53.000 I can't fucking believe it, but it's true. 0.98

00:08:55.000 Really? 0.93

00:08:56.000 Yeah, I mean, they're not that...

00:08:57.000 You look at, like, pit bulls have all these muscles in their heads, and they're known for their bite.

00:09:01.000 Nothing compared to a wolf.

00:09:02.000 A wolf can go right through an elk shinbone.

00:09:04.000 It's crazy. 1.00

00:09:06.000 Fuck. 1.00

00:09:06.000 Yeah, that's one of the inspirations. 1.00

00:09:09.000 Wolves were actually the inspiration for me to even think of this show.

00:09:13.000 I'm pretty fascinated by wolves, but one day I was out hunting elk in Montana, and I'd been hunting this one bull, and it was the first time I ever saw a wolf in the wild.

00:09:26.000 And I was really close, too.

00:09:29.000 I was like, oh, this is awesome, because this was before you really saw a lot of wolves.

00:09:33.000 And then I actually got a little video of it, and then I go and do my hunt, and then the wolf happened to be hunting the same group of elk.

00:09:43.000 Was it a lone wolf?

00:09:45.000 Yeah, it was by itself.

00:09:46.000 And I was actually telling, I did Steve's podcast with Steve Rinello the other day, and I was telling him this same story.

00:09:55.000 And I've seen four times I've seen wolves take down an elk in the wild.

00:10:01.000 They've all been by themselves.

00:10:03.000 I've never seen a pack attack elk.

00:10:05.000 I've only seen lone wolves.

00:10:07.000 That has got to be amazing to watch that go down.

00:10:11.000 It's cool.

00:10:11.000 Wow.

00:10:13.000 You see the elk running, and it's almost like the wolf...

00:10:19.000 It could almost run between its legs.

00:10:22.000 It's going back and forth.

00:10:23.000 The elk is bee-lining, and that wolf is back and forthing.

00:10:27.000 It's much faster.

00:10:28.000 Much faster, yeah.

00:10:29.000 So how do they take it out?

00:10:30.000 They bite its back legs? 0.98

00:10:32.000 Yep.

00:10:32.000 Grab hamstring, bite its back leg, anywhere it can sink its teeth in, but mostly go for the back end.

00:10:38.000 Do they try to take it down all in one shot, or do they try to wound it and then eventually get it?

00:10:42.000 I think it's whatever they can grab, and half the time it ends up wounding it.

00:10:46.000 When I've seen them be the most successful is they run the elk into deadfall.

00:10:52.000 Because the wolf can go under and over the logs, up and down, back and forth.

00:10:56.000 And the elk struggles.

00:10:57.000 It uses all its energy.

00:10:58.000 It kind of gets trapped.

00:11:00.000 Oh, wow.

00:11:01.000 So the wolves kind of funnel them into areas where they know they'll be more successful.

00:11:05.000 It seems like it.

00:11:05.000 Seems like I've always seen them catch them on the downhill.

00:11:08.000 Like run them down a canyon in the bottom of a canyon seems to be where...

00:11:12.000 I'm trying to think about it.

00:11:14.000 Yeah.

00:11:15.000 It's like in the bottom of a canyon where there's lots of logs and things down.

00:11:18.000 That's got to be an amazing thing to see happen live because it's so rare to be able to be there.

00:11:23.000 I mean, you might see a wolf, you might see an elk, but to see a wolf kill an elk, like to be at that moment where it didn't matter if you were there or not, that was going to go down.

00:11:31.000 I mean, that's nature.

00:11:32.000 Exactly.

00:11:33.000 I was blood trailing my friend's wife.

00:11:36.000 She shot a nice bull with her bow. 1.00

00:11:38.000 Last year, and we're sitting there trying to find this elk, and here comes this cow elk running with a wolf hot on its tail.

00:11:45.000 And I was like, sweet, we're going to watch it go down!

00:11:48.000 And my buddy yells at it.

00:11:50.000 He didn't know what to do.

00:11:51.000 I mean, it was right in our face.

00:11:52.000 It was right there, and he just kind of yells, and it spooks the wolf off.

00:11:56.000 And I was like, why'd you do that?

00:11:56.000 He's like, I don't know.

00:11:59.000 I was like, no, he's just going to go hunt more.

00:12:01.000 I mean, it would have been cool to at least see it.

00:12:03.000 You would have seen it, right?

00:12:05.000 Oh, we were...

00:12:07.000 75 yards away.

00:12:08.000 I mean, it was right there in the open, like in this burn.

00:12:11.000 It was amazing.

00:12:12.000 God!

00:12:13.000 They're incredible.

00:12:14.000 I have so mixed feelings on Wolves.

00:12:16.000 I mean, one part of me thinks they're amazing.

00:12:19.000 I love them.

00:12:20.000 They're fascinating.

00:12:21.000 But another part of me is like this reintroduction of them into the United States.

00:12:25.000 I just don't think it was really planned out very well.

00:12:29.000 And their numbers are staggering now.

00:12:31.000 Oh, yeah.

00:12:32.000 It's...

00:12:33.000 Well, when we talk about the American model of conservation, there's checks and balances and goes with game animals and non-game animals.

00:12:41.000 So when you reintroduce an animal into an area that it hasn't maybe never been in that area or it's been so long that it's been in there, they have to be managed as well.

00:12:50.000 Otherwise, the whole ecosystem comes out of balance.

00:12:54.000 Well, I watched this video about Yellowstone, about wolves in Yellowstone.

00:12:58.000 It was talking about the impact that wolves have had in Yellowstone and all these other animals that are thriving because of the introduction of the wolves.

00:13:04.000 And it's kind of interesting.

00:13:05.000 It's kind of interesting, but the reality of those animals is they're predators.

00:13:09.000 You're not talking about any other kind of animal.

00:13:11.000 You're talking about a predator.

00:13:12.000 It's like if you have a large amount of elk in an area or a large amount of deer, I mean, this is a completely different animal than having a large amount of wolves.

00:13:20.000 And when you're managing these types of animals with emotions rather than objective logic That's when things get weird because you've got a lot of people their version of conservation never would include hunting a wolf But if you get thousands and thousands of wolves in a state like you you have to hunt them because then they start attacking livestock like where I was up in BC where I Shot that moose there was The guy that I hunted with,

00:13:49.000 his neighbor had a cow get taken out by wolves in the middle of the winter. 0.63

00:13:53.000 It's like cold and there was not much for them to eat and they said, fuck it, let's just do this. 0.99

00:13:57.000 They took out a cow. 0.99

00:13:59.000 Can you imagine like you're in your house and you're hearing...

00:14:03.000 You're looking out and there's 20 wolves just ripping apart one of your cows. 1.00

00:14:07.000 Like, fuck, man. 1.00

00:14:08.000 Yeah, once they figure out what an easy meal is to it, I think it's hard for them to go back to chasing moose and other animals. 1.00

00:14:15.000 Well, they have no limit on the amount of wolves you can shoot up there.

00:14:18.000 You can shoot as many as you want.

00:14:20.000 I don't think they could ever...

00:14:22.000 Hurt the population.

00:14:23.000 Well, it's so dense.

00:14:24.000 When you go up there, everybody who lives in a city, you owe it to yourself at some point in your life to go out into actual, real wilderness.

00:14:35.000 Because there's all these people that have these opinions on animals that are completely based on Some Narnia-like idea of what nature's like.

00:14:44.000 Like, they've never actually been out there, like, in real wilderness, like, days in. 0.99

00:14:49.000 Packing go days in, where you go, oh, god damn. 0.98

00:14:54.000 Like, I just, I didn't get it. 0.99

00:14:56.000 I just didn't know.

00:14:57.000 It's nuts out there.

00:15:00.000 I think the other assumption is people think that the real wild is what they would see in a national park.

00:15:08.000 It's the zoo version of what wild is.

00:15:12.000 When you go out into a place like remote BC or outside of any kind of park like that, it's a completely different world.

00:15:19.000 And you don't see as many animals.

00:15:22.000 It's tough life out there.

00:15:25.000 Not that the boundary of the park...

00:15:28.000 It makes it more animals, but it's set up.

00:15:32.000 Those animals are acclimatized to seeing humans.

00:15:35.000 They don't have their same natural senses.

00:15:38.000 So if you go out to a place that they aren't acclimatized to seeing humans, it's a tough go.

00:15:42.000 It's not as easy as people think.

00:15:44.000 Well, it's not only not easy, there's a weird silence to it out there.

00:15:48.000 There's an eerie indifference that you get.

00:15:53.000 That's one of the things that we went to Prince of Wales.

00:15:57.000 Steve Rinella took us up there hunting deer.

00:16:00.000 Yeah.

00:16:01.000 We struck out, but...

00:16:03.000 It's an amazingly remote place. 0.99

00:16:06.000 We didn't see a single fucking person other than us the entire time we were there, and it doesn't give a fuck about you. 1.00

00:16:15.000 If you fall and break your leg and die there, so what? 1.00

00:16:19.000 Just a part of it.

00:16:20.000 You're just a part of this whole thing where everything is going to go. 0.99

00:16:23.000 There's bears there, there's deer there, there's all sorts of, you know, interesting wildlife, but it doesn't give a fuck about you. 0.90

00:16:31.000 I don't think people kind of understand that in a real, like, in a...

00:16:37.000 We really rationalize it or really like got it into your brain like this is reality Until you actually go into the woods to the real woods not Yellowstone not Central Park.

00:16:49.000 Yeah The real woods are a different animal it is and that's when you kind of understand if you've even I haven't encountered wolves in the wild I've seen what they've done and We talked about in the last podcast.

00:17:01.000 I took some photos of this moose calf that we had come upon that had been killed probably like the night before.

00:17:06.000 It was kind of interesting.

00:17:08.000 But I haven't encountered them in real life. 0.99

00:17:11.000 But the people that I know that have have a completely different opinion than the people that live in cities that think that you'd have to be an asshole to shoot a wolf. 0.99

00:17:20.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:17:21.000 Well, if you aren't around it, it's so far removed.

00:17:23.000 I mean, you almost can't even make an accurate assumption of what it's like, really.

00:17:28.000 No, you also can't make an accurate assumption that you'd have to be a person that hates animals to shoot the wolf.

00:17:34.000 That's the management aspect of wildlife, especially when it comes to predators.

00:17:40.000 This is lost on a lot of people.

00:17:42.000 And it's one of the reasons why California doesn't have mountain lion seasons.

00:17:46.000 But mountain lion attacks in California have steadily gone up.

00:17:50.000 Mountain lion sightings have steadily gone up.

00:17:52.000 And they're kind of playing with fire.

00:17:54.000 Because there's a lot of them here now.

00:17:57.000 They don't get hunted.

00:17:58.000 You know, that's what I wonder what the future is going to look like in a place in the long future.

00:18:04.000 Because mountain lions...

00:18:06.000 If you look at African cats...

00:18:09.000 They're a very dangerous animal.

00:18:12.000 But mountain lions are a shyer version of the species.

00:18:15.000 And I think it's because...

00:18:19.000 They're in the predatory realm.

00:18:21.000 They weren't always...

00:18:23.000 They weren't at the top.

00:18:24.000 In California, you look at California, there used to be grizzly bears or some sort of species of brown, you know, coastal grizzly bear.

00:18:31.000 And then humans hunting.

00:18:34.000 And so you had mountain lions that had to be afraid of things.

00:18:39.000 Now they're in a world where they don't have any predators and nothing's chasing them.

00:18:44.000 At what point...

00:18:45.000 I mean, maybe it's...

00:18:46.000 A hundred years down the road.

00:18:47.000 Maybe it's a thousand years down the road.

00:18:48.000 At what point do they essentially become a different temperament of cat, much similar to the ones in Africa where they have to... 0.66

00:18:57.000 Or South America.

00:18:58.000 Or South America, yeah.

00:18:59.000 Yeah, where they don't have predators.

00:19:01.000 That's a good point. 1.00

00:19:02.000 You've got to keep those bitches scared. 1.00

00:19:05.000 This family that we went to their farm to hunt turkeys two weeks ago, and they lost all their sheep, every single one of them, in Northern California. 0.99

00:19:14.000 All of them.

00:19:15.000 Really?

00:19:15.000 They lost all of them to mountain lions.

00:19:16.000 They have so many cats up there, they see them, like in the day, just hanging out. 1.00

00:19:21.000 They're like, fuck, man. 0.99

00:19:23.000 They don't even have an accurate account of how many they have. 1.00

00:19:26.000 Oh, no.

00:19:27.000 It's pretty rare to see them.

00:19:29.000 If you start seeing a mountain lion in the daytime, then there's a lot of mountain lions.

00:19:33.000 Yeah.

00:19:34.000 Or you just get super lucky.

00:19:35.000 Yeah.

00:19:36.000 I saw one in Montecito, which is, like, a rich suburb of Santa Barbara.

00:19:41.000 I was driving down, like, a residential road, and I saw this thing bounce in front of the road, and I thought it was a coyote at first, but I saw its tail. 0.98

00:19:49.000 And I went, whoa, that's a fucking mountain lion in this, like, suburban neighborhood. 0.98

00:19:55.000 Hmm. 0.99

00:19:55.000 Just looking for a good restaurant to get a steak. 0.99

00:19:57.000 Or a good dog.

00:20:00.000 A good dog that he catches slipping.

00:20:02.000 Yeah, I think I've got, I must, my place in Montana, I think I have some kind of strange mountain lion breeding program going on because every year at the same time, there's just lion tracks all near the cabin, all over the place.

00:20:16.000 That started right when I, the year I first came here and talked with you, and it's just been continuing.

00:20:22.000 And I don't know what it is, but a friend of mine started chasing lions around there.

00:20:26.000 He said you would be surprised how many cats are living in this area.

00:20:30.000 Within six or seven, within a mile or two.

00:20:33.000 It's crazy.

00:20:35.000 Tohone Ranch, which is about an hour plus from here, there's a great hunting spot.

00:20:41.000 They have pigs and Rocky Mountain elk.

00:20:43.000 They have one trail camera on this pond, and they found 16 different mountain lions on this trail camera.

00:20:50.000 That's pretty crazy.

00:20:53.000 It's a huge ranch.

00:20:54.000 It's the biggest ranch in California.

00:20:56.000 It's 270,000 acres.

00:20:57.000 And they have just a large supply of wild pigs.

00:21:02.000 Wild pigs are all over the place.

00:21:03.000 It's like their bread and butter for their hunting program.

00:21:06.000 Yeah.

00:21:07.000 When we went there, we saw Last time I went, I went like real recently.

00:21:13.000 We were bow hunting.

00:21:14.000 We saw 50 pigs in a day.

00:21:16.000 Wow.

00:21:16.000 Yeah, and we didn't even see a lot.

00:21:18.000 The time before that, we were seeing hundreds of them. 0.92

00:21:21.000 Just hundreds of pigs all over the place. 1.00

00:21:23.000 Did you end up getting one? 0.86

00:21:24.000 First time, yes.

00:21:25.000 Second time, no.

00:21:27.000 Bow hunting, no.

00:21:27.000 It's pretty good.

00:21:28.000 Yeah, it's delicious.

00:21:30.000 It's very different.

00:21:31.000 It's very different than, like I had wild turkey.

00:21:34.000 I was surprised at how much it tastes like turkey.

00:21:36.000 You know, especially the breast. 0.94

00:21:38.000 It's like, it's good, but it's turkey.

00:21:40.000 It's turkey.

00:21:40.000 But you eat wild pork, and you're like, ooh, this has got a whole different thing going on.

00:21:45.000 Depends on the pig you get, because if you buy pork, if you shoot a boar, it tastes a lot different than a sow, or even a pregnant sow, maybe.

00:21:56.000 Right.

00:21:56.000 But in New Zealand, we get quite a few pigs.

00:22:00.000 And this guy showed me this tactic where when you're skinning it, you get your knife sharp and make your initial cuts, and then he dulls the tip on the concrete.

00:22:08.000 And so when he's skinning it, because what it is is he'll skin, he can skin closer to the, essentially closer to the skin and keep all the fat on the pork.

00:22:18.000 Mm-hmm.

00:22:18.000 Which normally, if you just kind of skin it off, take the hide off, all the fat's removed.

00:22:23.000 But he said that if you leave that fat on, it gives it a lot more flavor, a different flavor.

00:22:28.000 And it's really good.

00:22:29.000 I did it, and it was pretty exceptional.

00:22:31.000 What's the difference in the flavor?

00:22:32.000 Could you describe it?

00:22:35.000 It's more like regular pork, I would say.

00:22:37.000 Hmm.

00:22:38.000 Yeah, more of a...

00:22:39.000 Do you know who Joel Salatin is?

00:22:41.000 No.

00:22:42.000 He's kind of a famous farmer.

00:22:43.000 He's got some really unique ideas about farming and he was a guest on the podcast as well.

00:22:47.000 And what he does is he lets his pigs kind of run wild.

00:22:52.000 He sets up like a large electric fence and he moves that electric fence all over the place.

00:22:57.000 So these pigs, the way they eat is they root. 0.94

00:23:00.000 They eat acorns, and they eat like a normal pig would.

00:23:04.000 There's plenty of food in the forest, but they keep them intact in a certain area with this portable electric fence.

00:23:12.000 So they just keep moving the fence.

00:23:14.000 So the pigs will root out this area and forage in this one area, and then they'll kind of move them to another spot, and then they'll let them forage in that area. 0.80

00:23:23.000 And so these pigs have a dark meat, like a wild boar.

00:23:26.000 Yeah.

00:23:27.000 It's good.

00:23:28.000 It isn't like domestic pork, but I almost prefer it.

00:23:32.000 If you try it, next time you get one, try to cook a little bit with the skin on.

00:23:36.000 That's good.

00:23:37.000 Really?

00:23:37.000 With the skin on?

00:23:38.000 You just start a big fire and get some water and just shave the hair off.

00:23:43.000 Burn the hair off.

00:23:43.000 Yeah.

00:23:43.000 And then cook with the skin on.

00:23:45.000 I'll bone it out first, and you can stuff the ham with, I don't know, some kind of stuffing, whatever you want, really.

00:23:51.000 And then put it in the oven, roast it in the oven like that.

00:23:54.000 You don't eat the skin.

00:23:55.000 I've seen people do that with domestic pigs. 0.77

00:23:56.000 I've seen them do those big whole pig roasts.

00:23:59.000 Oh, yeah.

00:24:00.000 That looks awesome.

00:24:01.000 In the pit.

00:24:01.000 Yeah, that looks awesome.

00:24:02.000 We tried doing that for a buddy's bachelor party, but we didn't get the fire hot enough, so we're all out here camping by this lake, and I brought this big pig, and I'm all excited about it.

00:24:12.000 Get it out, and now we all have a raw pig. 1.00

00:24:16.000 So we fired up the grills and made the best out of the situation, but everything's closed.

00:24:22.000 Everything just smelled like pork after that.

00:24:25.000 Was it a wild pig, or was it a domestic pig? 0.91

00:24:27.000 It was a domestic pig, yeah. 0.92

00:24:29.000 I wish it would have been a wild pig.

00:24:31.000 Well, you have to worry less about trichinosis, right, with the domestic pigs?

00:24:35.000 They're actually lowering the temperature that you could cook a domestic pig now. 0.77

00:24:39.000 The recommendation, they've got it down to 140 degrees.

00:24:42.000 See, I've heard that the trichinosis comes from them eating rodents.

00:24:48.000 Hmm, so Technically they could get I mean there could be mice because they would eat the feed and the Mice would get in with the grain and everything and they can still get trichinosis Definitely I wouldn't quote me on that, but I definitely heard that a lot.

00:25:01.000 Well, I've watched my chickens I have domestic chickens and I've watched them eat a mouse.

00:25:05.000 Oh, yeah They found a mouse in the chicken house and they fucked that thing up man.

00:25:09.000 It was wild just because usually they're just kind of You know, they just like peck in and they'll, you know, they get real happy if they find a snail or something like that. 0.99

00:25:17.000 But they found that mouse and they just stomped that little fucker. 1.00

00:25:20.000 Just went to town. 1.00

00:25:20.000 They went to town. 1.00

00:25:21.000 They were fighting over it and they were all tearing it apart.

00:25:24.000 And you see their raptor passed, you know? 0.99

00:25:26.000 You see their fucking dinosaur in there. 1.00

00:25:29.000 That's right. 0.99

00:25:29.000 Because on Apex, I wanted to look at a lot. 0.99

00:25:32.000 I'm just fascinated by birds and the way they move and hunt, especially predatory birds.

00:25:36.000 Because a lot of people think of birds as...

00:25:39.000 Seed-eating, bird-bath animals.

00:25:41.000 Most birds are meat-eaters, carnivores.

00:25:44.000 Yeah.

00:25:45.000 Well, I mean, there's a lot of smaller species that aren't, but there are a lot of carnivorous birds.

00:25:50.000 And the way they hunt, like the great blue heron, we did an episode that'll be coming up here shortly.

00:25:55.000 The thing's got a spear attached to its head. 0.96

00:25:57.000 What other animal?

00:25:59.000 What other animal?

00:26:00.000 There's videos of great blue herons spearing these gophers.

00:26:03.000 Really?

00:26:04.000 It's unbelievable.

00:26:05.000 Oh, I want to see something.

00:26:06.000 Pull that up, Jamie.

00:26:09.000 They have a spear on their face, yeah. 0.69

00:26:11.000 How about pelicans?

00:26:13.000 Pelicans. 0.99

00:26:13.000 They got a scooper. 0.99

00:26:14.000 A net.

00:26:15.000 A net.

00:26:16.000 They have a built-in net.

00:26:18.000 Yeah, man.

00:26:19.000 I rented a house in Malibu for a few months when I was getting something fixed in my kitchen.

00:26:24.000 And the house was like right on the water.

00:26:27.000 It was really fucking cool because I would eat breakfast every morning.

00:26:30.000 Like essentially, like you'd look out from the kitchen table and just nothing but water. 0.95

00:26:35.000 And I'd watch these pelicans diving in and I'd watch these swarms of birds when they'd find, you know, fish feeding.

00:26:41.000 Oh, yeah.

00:26:42.000 It's just, it's so wild to be around them.

00:26:45.000 Oh, look at the blue heron spears, a gopher.

00:26:48.000 So what is he, just chilling, waiting for it to pop its head up?

00:26:51.000 Yeah, I don't know if this is...

00:26:52.000 Oh! 0.60

00:26:53.000 There's like...

00:26:54.000 That's it.

00:26:55.000 He just whacked a gopher.

00:26:57.000 They'll catch anything.

00:26:59.000 But he speared it.

00:27:01.000 That's what's crazy.

00:27:02.000 Yeah, they stab it. 0.98

00:27:03.000 Imagine having a weapon built into your face. 0.98

00:27:05.000 Is this another one?

00:27:06.000 Yeah, that's a pretty good one. 0.95

00:27:07.000 A weapon built into your face.

00:27:11.000 Catch him. 0.94

00:27:12.000 Spear stuff.

00:27:13.000 The bigger fish, they'll spear other ones they grab, but these gophers, they definitely...

00:27:17.000 They definitely go for it.

00:27:18.000 I saw an eagle for the first time, I guess it was two years ago now, in Alaska.

00:27:23.000 Went up there salmon fishing.

00:27:26.000 I've never seen an eagle in the wild.

00:27:27.000 I've seen eagles before, but when you see one in the wild, you start going, oh, this is not what I think it is.

00:27:35.000 Oh, yeah.

00:27:35.000 This is like some killer.

00:27:38.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

00:27:38.000 Just some flying killer that literally has knives on its fingers, and it's just floating around, looking for something to snatch and just fuck up. 1.00

00:27:47.000 Oh, look at that. 1.00

00:27:48.000 Bam! 0.98

00:27:49.000 Yeah.

00:27:51.000 I just jacked that gopher.

00:27:54.000 It's like, there's your birds.

00:27:55.000 Wow.

00:27:56.000 Catching gophers.

00:27:57.000 Dinosaurs.

00:27:58.000 Yeah, they look like it.

00:28:00.000 They're pretty cool.

00:28:01.000 Yeah, birds are fascinating, man.

00:28:03.000 Have you ever seen the videos of the harpy eagles in South America?

00:28:05.000 Oh, yeah.

00:28:06.000 They're cool.

00:28:08.000 Harpy eagles killing monkeys and sloths, flying off with these sloths.

00:28:13.000 Apparently they're the biggest eagle, right?

00:28:14.000 The harpy eagle, I believe, is the biggest one.

00:28:16.000 Well, I'm not sure.

00:28:17.000 I don't know.

00:28:18.000 I believe they are.

00:28:19.000 I think so. 1.00

00:28:21.000 Either way, they're fucking enormous. 0.98

00:28:23.000 And so they did this nature documentary where these guys were setting up a camera on a harpy eagle's nest, and they had a chance. 0.98

00:28:31.000 Here goes one.

00:28:31.000 Look at this.

00:28:33.000 Poor Sloth. 1.00

00:28:34.000 What a shit deal. 1.00

00:28:36.000 He lives his life in slow motion to get ripped out of a tree by an eagle and put on Nat Geo Wild. 1.00

00:28:40.000 Oh, God! 1.00

00:28:43.000 Seriously, what a shit deal it is to be a sloth. 1.00

00:28:47.000 That's crazy. 1.00

00:28:48.000 Oh god.

00:28:50.000 It's amazing that they can fly with an animal that size, too.

00:28:53.000 Easy, too.

00:28:54.000 Look how he swoops in. 1.00

00:28:56.000 BITCH! BAM! That's cool. 1.00

00:28:59.000 It's really cheating, you know?

00:29:01.000 Oh, yeah.

00:29:02.000 I mean, it's like...

00:29:03.000 It's like hunting a cow with a pen.

00:29:07.000 That's pretty cool.

00:29:08.000 It is really cool, but that's an eagle.

00:29:12.000 You know, I mean, that's what we think of when we think of a bird of prey.

00:29:16.000 That is the quintessential bird of prey.

00:29:18.000 Doing this Apex Predator show, I've got to get up close and personal with a lot of animals that I just think are pretty badass.

00:29:24.000 I'm sure.

00:29:24.000 We did one that was a Golden Eagle episode.

00:29:27.000 Oh.

00:29:27.000 And went to this lady.

00:29:29.000 She runs this rehabilitation center, Raptor of the Rockies, and she's got all kinds of crazy raptors. 0.51

00:29:36.000 And there's a Golden Eagle and a Bald Eagle in the same enclosure area.

00:29:41.000 We've got to take the Golden Eagle out and check it out.

00:29:44.000 And the Golden Eagle...

00:29:47.000 I mean, it's quite a bit bigger than the Bald Eagle.

00:29:49.000 It's an enormous bird, right?

00:29:50.000 They're native to Colorado and the Rocky Mountains.

00:29:53.000 Yeah, they're probably the most widely distributed eagle in North America.

00:29:56.000 I mean, all the way through Mexico.

00:29:59.000 And they are a crazy predator. 0.98

00:30:02.000 Yeah, I've seen some videos of them killing wolves. 0.98

00:30:05.000 Oh, yeah.

00:30:06.000 In Mongolia.

00:30:07.000 Yeah, the Mongolian guys. 0.98

00:30:08.000 That's bizarre.

00:30:10.000 They've trained these eagles to hunt wolves for them.

00:30:12.000 Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

00:30:13.000 Yeah, it's an enormous bird.

00:30:16.000 And it's really crazy to think that at one point in time, they were even larger.

00:30:21.000 You know, they had much, much larger birds of prey in North America.

00:30:24.000 Look at the face on that thing.

00:30:26.000 God! 1.00

00:30:27.000 Damn those eyeballs. 1.00

00:30:28.000 Yeah, apparently that's what we're I was studying their eyesight and they can spot medium-sized prey from up to two miles away two miles Isn't that fun? 0.99

00:30:39.000 I mean that's the thing that One of the things that just so much fascinates me about animals especially is they have capabilities That it's almost hard with all our technology to even replicate.

00:30:52.000 Yeah, if you really think about it There's a lot of weird stuff on this planet.

00:30:57.000 Dolphins using sonar and eagles being able to see two miles away.

00:31:02.000 There's just a lot of crazy things in nature that has taken us years and years to replicate some kind of machine or contraption where we can even compare to it.

00:31:11.000 And in some cases, we haven't even come close, like the smell that a bloodhound can pick up.

00:31:15.000 Exactly.

00:31:16.000 Smelling things that have been there.

00:31:18.000 Ages ago.

00:31:19.000 We don't have any idea, like, we don't have any idea how to make a piece of equipment that can smell something in the distance the way a dog can.

00:31:30.000 When dogs start...

00:31:32.000 I mean, I would just love to wonder, I would love to experience what's going on inside their nose when they catch a scent.

00:31:39.000 Yeah.

00:31:40.000 Like, what is that?

00:31:41.000 What are they catching?

00:31:42.000 The smell where a bird walked.

00:31:43.000 It's crazy.

00:31:44.000 Yeah, they say that the comparison is with skunk spray.

00:31:49.000 Because with skunk spray, a person can pick up parts per million in a way that you can't with any other spray, with any other smell, rather.

00:31:57.000 Like when you're driving down the street, like there's this area near my house, and as I'm driving on my way home, I smell skunks in this one spot all the time.

00:32:05.000 And they're probably blocks away from me.

00:32:07.000 Right.

00:32:08.000 But I smell them so clearly.

00:32:10.000 Like I roll down the window, like you could smell...

00:32:12.000 It's like they're right there.

00:32:13.000 And they were there days ago, probably.

00:32:15.000 Yeah, it could be.

00:32:16.000 Well, they're definitely not right there.

00:32:18.000 They're probably blocks away from me.

00:32:20.000 There's nothing else that I could think of that's that small that you could smell blocks away.

00:32:25.000 Yeah, that's crazy.

00:32:26.000 They say that that's kind of like a dog, but way better.

00:32:30.000 Like, they know where it is. 1.00

00:32:32.000 Like, they don't just go, fuck, what is that? 0.99

00:32:34.000 They go, oh, it's over there. 1.00

00:32:35.000 It's over there.

00:32:37.000 A dude.

00:32:38.000 You can make him smell a dude's socks, and then they'll know he's over there. 1.00

00:32:43.000 And they can chase his ass down. 1.00

00:32:45.000 Just like you could smell a skunk, they could smell a person like that. 1.00

00:32:49.000 It's fucking crazy. 0.99

00:32:51.000 So, have you been elk hunting yet? 0.99

00:32:53.000 Not yet.

00:32:53.000 One of the things I always tell people is, especially if you haven't been elk hunting, most of the elk that we end up killing, I attribute to smelling them first.

00:33:01.000 And people that don't Elk hunt would never pick up on it.

00:33:06.000 But I'm hunting with my nose almost as much as I'm using any other tactic.

00:33:10.000 Really?

00:33:11.000 Oh yeah.

00:33:11.000 And I always keep a lighter in my pocket.

00:33:14.000 And as soon as I pick up the scent, I flip the lighter on and see which way the wind's going.

00:33:17.000 Because you'll catch it.

00:33:19.000 Like, if the wind blows for a split second or swirls, you'll smell it.

00:33:23.000 And you can get right in.

00:33:25.000 And I can distinguish the difference between the smell of an elk and where an elk's been.

00:33:30.000 You can actually smell an elk's...

00:33:33.000 Urinated right here, or there's a wallow, and there's a different smell between that and the smell of an animal. 0.95

00:33:41.000 So I'll tell my clients, I'll say, I smell an elk like a physical animal.

00:33:45.000 Be ready.

00:33:46.000 It's within X amount of distance.

00:33:49.000 And just through practice, you can decipher those things.

00:33:53.000 Is there a way you could describe it?

00:33:56.000 What does it smell like?

00:33:57.000 So, smells are the hardest thing on the planet to describe.

00:34:01.000 An elk smells a lot like a beef cow, but there's a different note to it.

00:34:05.000 And the smell of, say, a bull, a live animal...

00:34:10.000 It's a weird...

00:34:11.000 It almost smells hot.

00:34:13.000 I don't know how to describe it, but you can smell the difference.

00:34:16.000 It's stronger, and it just smells different.

00:34:20.000 Hot.

00:34:20.000 Yeah, I don't know.

00:34:21.000 It's like at the very end of the scent, you can pick it up.

00:34:26.000 Does their smell vary based on whether or not they're in the rut?

00:34:30.000 Yeah, it does.

00:34:31.000 Well, the intensity of their smell varies.

00:34:34.000 A cow, a cow elk, will smell different when she's in heat or during the rut.

00:34:39.000 Same with mule deer.

00:34:40.000 You'll smell mule deer as well.

00:34:42.000 Wow.

00:34:43.000 Well, I know when we hunted mule deer, Rinal was telling us, don't touch the tarsal gland.

00:34:49.000 Because that gland, if you get that on you, or if you get it on your, especially if you get it on the meat, it just funks up everything.

00:34:56.000 What does that smell like?

00:34:59.000 Smells like musty deer.

00:35:01.000 Just funk.

00:35:03.000 Yeah, funk deer.

00:35:03.000 Just deer funk.

00:35:04.000 Have you ever got it on the meat before?

00:35:07.000 No, not that I know of.

00:35:08.000 I did have one mule deer that I shot during the rut with my recurve bow, and it was not as good as other deer.

00:35:17.000 It was probably one of the worst tasting deer, and so maybe I did somehow.

00:35:22.000 Hmm.

00:35:22.000 Because I thought I was eating it and going, this tastes like they smell.

00:35:26.000 Really?

00:35:26.000 Yeah.

00:35:29.000 Sausage time.

00:35:30.000 Make sausage.

00:35:31.000 Usually they smell great.

00:35:33.000 Or it tastes great.

00:35:34.000 They taste awesome.

00:35:35.000 But it could have been that, or it just could have been...

00:35:38.000 I don't know.

00:35:39.000 Who knows, really.

00:35:41.000 Doing this show, what has been the most surprising thing when you're analyzing all these different animals and their hunting tactics?

00:35:48.000 I think the most surprising thing is...

00:35:51.000 Humans have a natural innate ability, hunting ability, that is very comparable to animals that Have to hunt to survive.

00:36:05.000 And I say that, like, one of the things that really brought this to light was one of our last episodes of the season, we look at the river otter.

00:36:13.000 Well, it's a mammal that hunts underwater.

00:36:16.000 We're mammals.

00:36:17.000 Can we hunt underwater?

00:36:18.000 And I'm pretty much from the desert, so people are in the water, but I think of it as something that people have trained their whole lives to do or whatever.

00:36:29.000 You know, be efficient free diving.

00:36:33.000 So I go to Florida and kind of just try to uncover how humans compare to mammals that hunt underwater.

00:36:41.000 Turns out we have the same dive reflexes in other things as other mammals that hunt underwater.

00:36:46.000 And anybody off the street can initiate these reflexes.

00:36:51.000 The thing that our trouble is is our mind.

00:36:53.000 We have this mental threshold that we have to get over.

00:36:55.000 But once we get over that, Within two hours, I was able to hold my breath for over four minutes.

00:37:00.000 What?

00:37:01.000 Yeah.

00:37:01.000 Crazy.

00:37:02.000 What? 0.86

00:37:02.000 It's all the mental thing. 0.86

00:37:03.000 Well, you're in really good shape, though.

00:37:04.000 No, but this is...

00:37:05.000 The guy...

00:37:06.000 I did this freediving course, and the guy is like, we could take...

00:37:10.000 If everyone could just block...

00:37:25.000 That's insane!

00:37:29.000 So it's just the panic, the freaking out, like, I gotta breathe, I gotta breathe, I gotta breathe.

00:37:32.000 Yeah, but there's this mammalian dive reflex in it.

00:37:35.000 It restricts your capillaries, slows your heart rate automatically.

00:37:40.000 Your spleen releases more red blood cells, so your body consumes less oxygen.

00:37:45.000 It's the exact same thing that happens in whales, dolphins, otters.

00:37:50.000 So...

00:37:51.000 We're just born with these things that other predators have, and it kind of really comes out in this TV show.

00:38:01.000 And that's one of the things that I really wanted to do, because looking at it and talking about it, you say, what are you doing?

00:38:07.000 And at the onset, it sounds completely ridiculous, especially to a guy like me that's made...

00:38:13.000 Most of my life, hunting.

00:38:15.000 So I go, okay, well, what am I doing here?

00:38:16.000 I'm trying to dissect nature and see, is hunting really something that's natural for humans to do?

00:38:23.000 Are we meant to be hunters?

00:38:24.000 Are we born to be hunters?

00:38:25.000 And obviously there's a big learning curve in it, but we are very similar to these other animals that are born predators. 0.98

00:38:33.000 It only makes sense that if buffalo have a natural instinct to avoid bipedal hominids, because they've seen that, okay, they get shot, get killed, and they know that wolves come around, okay, don't run, stay put, and we'll fuck these wolves up.

00:38:47.000 Like, it almost seems like all this information just gets passed on somehow or another through genetics, and that's how these animals manage to be here.

00:38:55.000 Yeah.

00:38:55.000 Well, it would only make sense that if we've gotten to 2015, the way we got here is by eating everything that we could eat up till now, including every animal that we could figure out how to hunt, and all those skills and all those abilities, especially the idea that your spleen starts releasing extra red blood when you dive underwater to allow you to stay.

00:39:17.000 There's only one reason to stay underwater.

00:39:19.000 Two, to hide from something or to kill something.

00:39:22.000 That's it.

00:39:23.000 Yeah, it's crazy.

00:39:25.000 Wow.

00:39:25.000 That's pretty wild.

00:39:26.000 Yeah.

00:39:27.000 So what did you do when you did that?

00:39:29.000 Did you use a spear or something like that?

00:39:31.000 Yeah.

00:39:32.000 Then we went out into the Gulf of Mexico and speared some greater amberjack and diving down pretty deep.

00:39:39.000 It was awesome.

00:39:41.000 It was so cool.

00:39:42.000 How long was it the longest you stayed down?

00:39:44.000 While moving, so the static breath holds we were doing, four minute breath holds, and when I got up from those, you feel this kind of euphoric sense.

00:39:51.000 You're like, wow.

00:39:52.000 And you get up and people black out at the top because they forget to take a breath.

00:39:56.000 Because at that point, you get to a certain point where you get up and you're like...

00:40:01.000 You aren't really out of breath.

00:40:03.000 It's a mental thing.

00:40:04.000 It's a horrible feeling, I'm not going to lie.

00:40:08.000 But it is a mental thing because you realize your body doesn't...

00:40:11.000 It tells you it needs oxygen, but it essentially doesn't.

00:40:14.000 Well, it does at some point, but...

00:40:16.000 There's people that'll hold their breath for 12 minutes.

00:40:19.000 12 minutes?

00:40:20.000 Well, didn't that dude, David Blaine, right?

00:40:23.000 He did something where he took like oxygen in.

00:40:26.000 He did something.

00:40:27.000 He did some sort of a sneaky trick where he breathed in pure oxygen and held it and then held his breath for like 17 minutes or something like that.

00:40:36.000 Yeah.

00:40:36.000 This is, before he did that stunt, this is the same thing that he went through to prepare for it.

00:40:42.000 Oh, really?

00:40:43.000 Yeah.

00:40:43.000 So he went through free diving.

00:40:45.000 Yeah, performance.

00:40:46.000 Yeah, there's a dude named Egan Inouye.

00:40:48.000 His brothers were the guy named Ensign Inouye, who's a famous MMA fighter.

00:40:51.000 And Egan actually fought some MMA himself.

00:40:53.000 But Egan was a world champion free diver.

00:40:56.000 And I think he would hold his breath for like seven minutes.

00:40:58.000 Crazy.

00:40:59.000 Yeah, living in Hawaii.

00:41:00.000 They would use holding their breath underwater.

00:41:04.000 It was one of the strength and conditioning programs they would do.

00:41:07.000 They would move rocks underwater.

00:41:09.000 BJ Penn had it on one of his...

00:41:11.000 One of the countdown shows to one of his big fights.

00:41:13.000 He would dive underwater and lift up a big rock and then move the rock underwater and drop it and come back up for air and go down and move it again, drop it and come back up for air.

00:41:22.000 I've heard through the grapevine that a lot of athletes are doing these breath holds before competitions because they're naturally creating more red blood cells, performance enhancing breath holds.

00:41:35.000 Wow, that makes sense.

00:41:37.000 That makes sense if you're saying that the spleen releases it when you're underwater, it probably is releasing it because you're holding your breath.

00:41:46.000 Correct, yeah.

00:41:48.000 Wow.

00:41:49.000 That's gonna be the new doping. 1.00

00:41:51.000 You gotta breathe, you fuck. 1.00

00:41:53.000 Are you breathing? 1.00

00:41:55.000 But there's a lot of athletes that are doing these, initiating these natural responses to enhance their performance.

00:42:04.000 Yeah, that's one of the big ones that I've been really getting into over the last few months or a year or so, actually, is cryogenic therapy, where you go into this chamber that's 250 degrees below zero.

00:42:15.000 Wow.

00:42:15.000 You put a surgical mask on, earmuffs on, gloves, you have underwear on, and you wear socks and, like, rubber crocs so that your foot doesn't touch the bottom, because you will get frostbite.

00:42:27.000 Anything you touch, you'll get frostbite.

00:42:29.000 And you step in this thing 250 degrees below zero for three minutes.

00:42:33.000 Okay.

00:42:33.000 We're good to go.

00:42:52.000 And the surface of my skin is usually somewhere around 30, 32, 35 degrees.

00:42:56.000 It's like it gets really cold.

00:42:58.000 And then immediately your blood just rushes back to all your extremities.

00:43:03.000 And the anti-inflammatory response is spectacular.

00:43:07.000 So people have pretty significant injuries, arthritis, even people that are close borderline and needing hip replacements, they've been able to put it off by doing this cryotherapy and mitigate almost all the pain.

00:43:20.000 That's pretty cool.

00:43:21.000 Because it's funny, the mammalian dive reflex response, when your face hits cold water, it starts to initiate because that's closing those capillaries, and it's probably a very similar process that's going on with that cryo.

00:43:34.000 It makes sense.

00:43:36.000 I used to take cold showers, like real hardcore cold showers when I lived in Boston.

00:43:41.000 There was this guy named Bob Caffarella that I used to do taekwondo with, and he was like a...

00:43:47.000 He was a senior student.

00:43:48.000 He was, like, ahead of me.

00:43:49.000 He was a black belt before I was.

00:43:50.000 He was, like, way... 1.00

00:43:51.000 And he was a fucking madman. 1.00

00:43:53.000 He used to sleep at the gym, trained all day long. 1.00

00:43:56.000 He'd always see him training.

00:43:57.000 But he was also into, like, forcing himself to do things that he didn't like to do, to be uncomfortable.

00:44:02.000 And what he'd do is, in mid-January, he would take cold showers. 0.98

00:44:06.000 And it was fucking cold! 0.98

00:44:09.000 You're talking about 33 degree water. 0.99

00:44:11.000 You know, it was like just barely cold enough to not be frozen in the pipes. 0.99

00:44:15.000 And he would turn that shit on and he would take a shower in there and he would just breathe in there. 0.99

00:44:19.000 And I remember trying and I did it a few times. 1.00

00:44:22.000 But it's just like you can't...

00:44:24.000 That's the thing that freaks you out.

00:44:26.000 It's like you got no breath.

00:44:29.000 Why can't I breathe?

00:44:31.000 Being cold makes sense, but why can't I breathe?

00:44:34.000 I guess it's probably the same sort of a response.

00:44:37.000 It is, yeah.

00:44:38.000 Wow.

00:44:38.000 It's pretty cool.

00:44:39.000 You would think that maybe taking a really cold shower before you perform, you know, before you do anything athletic would benefit you as well.

00:44:47.000 I would think so.

00:44:48.000 There's a lot of things that nature can teach us that, you know, our bodies just do by themselves.

00:44:56.000 What was the motivation to do this show?

00:44:59.000 Because this is very different than Solo Hunter, which is how I found out about you, which is a really cool show.

00:45:04.000 It's still around.

00:45:06.000 If you guys want to catch some episodes in that show, you would go out by yourself, just bring cameras, and really fascinating stuff.

00:45:13.000 And I'm still doing that show, and I don't really plan on changing anything with that, because I still...

00:45:18.000 My bread and butter is going out hunting.

00:45:20.000 It's what I love.

00:45:21.000 But I wanted to...

00:45:24.000 Get a little bit deeper and do something different.

00:45:27.000 And by something different, I wanted to also do something that looks at hunting and any person watching the show, whether they're a hunter or not, could look at this and go, you know what?

00:45:39.000 There's something here.

00:45:40.000 There's something that shows me that humans are meant to be hunters.

00:45:46.000 And if I can...

00:45:49.000 Make one person think that and go, okay, well maybe hunting isn't so bad.

00:45:53.000 Then for me, that's a bonus.

00:45:55.000 Because it's something that I love.

00:45:57.000 I don't want to see hunting go away.

00:45:58.000 Because if I did, then that's my passion.

00:46:02.000 That's what I'm all about.

00:46:03.000 So if all of a sudden it disappeared, wasn't allowed or whatever, people didn't understand it, then for me I'd feel like I don't know what I would do.

00:46:12.000 Is that really possible, though?

00:46:14.000 I don't necessarily know.

00:46:16.000 It could be.

00:46:18.000 I mean, you never really know because it's not guaranteed.

00:46:21.000 Just like mountain lion hunting isn't allowed in California, it makes no sense ecologically or whatever if people's emotions get involved with management or whatever.

00:46:32.000 It just seems like California is such an extreme example of people who don't have experience with wildlife or making those choices or definitely don't have experience with hunting.

00:46:42.000 The whole Department of Fish and Game out here isn't Fish and Game.

00:46:45.000 It's Fish and Wildlife.

00:46:47.000 It's one of the few states that has a distinction in the way it labels itself.

00:46:52.000 But the other reason is I... Professionally, I've made my living hunting.

00:47:00.000 And there's always been this idea for me of kind of taking it deeper.

00:47:05.000 And in this show, I actually learn something every time I do one of these. 0.70

00:47:11.000 As ridiculous as the premise might be or whatever we're trying to do, seems ridiculous to me sometimes at first.

00:47:16.000 And then I go through the steps and I really learn something.

00:47:20.000 And if I can learn something, I've been doing this forever, then I feel like other people watching can learn something.

00:47:25.000 Other hunters, other...

00:47:27.000 Yeah, no doubt.

00:47:29.000 I think hunting itself is a learning experience.

00:47:34.000 There's so many bad ideas that people have or just bad misconceptions about hunting, and a lot of it comes down to We look at hunting, or people look at hunting, a lot of times they look at the negative aspects of,

00:47:49.000 like, trophy hunting.

00:47:51.000 Like, trophy hunting seems kind of gross to people.

00:47:53.000 Like, the recent one was that lady who was laying down next to a giraffe.

00:47:56.000 Yeah, I just saw that today.

00:47:58.000 That's just, really, it's just poor taste, poor management, poor thinking.

00:48:06.000 Like, you could keep going on and on forever.

00:48:09.000 Like, why would you lie down next to a giraffe, smiling?

00:48:14.000 You know, the whole thing is very strange.

00:48:16.000 And the real fuck-up about it is that it puts out this image that confuses the real issue at hand, which is this was a large, non-breeding male...

00:48:30.000 That they were going to take out anyway. 0.69

00:48:32.000 They had already deemed through their conservation efforts that they were going to take this giraffe out and that they were going to use it to feed these villagers.

00:48:45.000 So her paying money to go and shoot this thing actually helps all these villagers.

00:48:50.000 It gives them food, then they take the money, they can apply the money to whatever, making wells or whatever they do with the money that they get. 1.00

00:48:57.000 From from hunters paying to hunt these animals There's a benefit to it because that animal wasn't gonna be around much longer anyway her stepping in and going but But then when you put it on Facebook and you're smiling and you're It's all so fucking confusing like to everybody else that goes well you're an asshole you just shot a fucking giraffe Who eats giraffes? 0.97

00:49:18.000 You know like no one's you're not like going over there to feed your family by shooting giraffes And then you find out, well, you actually can eat giraffes, and actually giraffes taste like a lot of different animals they're related to. 0.98

00:49:29.000 They taste like meat.

00:49:31.000 Yeah, they're deer.

00:49:32.000 They're essentially crazy-necked antelopes, right?

00:49:34.000 Yep.

00:49:35.000 Isn't that what their family they are?

00:49:36.000 They're antelope, yeah.

00:49:37.000 Yeah, I mean, antelopes are delicious.

00:49:40.000 Yeah.

00:49:40.000 But giraffes are so nice.

00:49:42.000 You go to the zoo, you know, I had this bit in my last special about giraffes being like the only animal that I don't feel bad that they're at the zoo.

00:49:50.000 Yeah.

00:49:50.000 Because they wake up and they're like, another day with no lions.

00:49:53.000 And they just wander around like having a great old time.

00:49:56.000 Like, we're so confident that giraffes are nice that they let babies feed them.

00:50:00.000 When my daughter was two, I was holding her up in my arms, and she's got her tiny little baby hand out with a piece of lettuce, and the giraffe comes over, wraps its tongue around the lettuce, and takes it, and she's laughing.

00:50:12.000 They're so confident at the zoo in a giraffe's behavior that they'll let babies feed them.

00:50:17.000 Which is crazy.

00:50:18.000 In the wild, though, giraffes can be, like a bull giraffe can be a pretty dangerous animal.

00:50:24.000 Probably because of their size, but I've seen giraffes fighting.

00:50:27.000 Their necks and wham!

00:50:29.000 They use their neck like a weapon.

00:50:31.000 They whip their head into each other. 0.60

00:50:35.000 I think people would assume too, like, oh, giraffes would be really easy to kill because they're so big.

00:50:42.000 I was working in South Africa, and on this place there was a few giraffes there, and they would get this disease from ticks.

00:50:58.000 Really?

00:51:14.000 Yeah.

00:51:16.000 They can see you coming forever, and they were skitterish.

00:51:20.000 They wanted these giraffes to survive, and two of the giraffes had actually gotten killed by power lines, so there's only a few giraffes left.

00:51:27.000 Power lines?

00:51:27.000 There was a big windstorm, and two giraffes, boom, zapped dead.

00:51:31.000 Whoa! 0.71

00:51:32.000 The lines came down and cooked them? 1.00

00:51:34.000 Holy shit. 1.00

00:51:35.000 I don't know how it happened, or what, just whipping in the wind and killed both of them. 1.00

00:51:39.000 Whoa.

00:51:41.000 So, the guy was really set on...

00:51:45.000 Inoculate or dousing these giraffes. 1.00

00:51:49.000 So I went out there and...

00:51:50.000 I don't know why I... Because a lot I would...

00:51:52.000 There was a lot of other animals in this area that just weren't accustomed to the ticks there.

00:51:57.000 Because they might have been from another region and they kind of do this...

00:52:01.000 On these giant...

00:52:02.000 I don't even know what you'd call them...

00:52:04.000 Preserves in Africa.

00:52:05.000 If you go on a photo safari in South Africa or whatever, it's...

00:52:09.000 Essentially, there's places where, say, they bring in animals, and maybe that animal wasn't indigenous to that region, but they swapped with this game reserve area over here to kind of integrate breeding and keep the populations existing.

00:52:24.000 And so you bring in a giraffe to this portion of Africa that maybe...

00:52:29.000 Hasn't had giraffes for who knows how long.

00:52:32.000 And the ticks there will kill them.

00:52:33.000 They get these diseases from the ticks. 0.74

00:52:36.000 But there's a lot of other animals like that too.

00:52:39.000 So I'd go out at night or whatever and try to shoot these antelope with paintballs that would kill the ticks.

00:52:47.000 And I never saw the giraffes at night.

00:52:49.000 I don't know why.

00:52:50.000 Maybe I just...

00:52:51.000 It was kind of weird.

00:52:51.000 You'd think you'd find them.

00:52:53.000 They're huge.

00:52:56.000 Or maybe they're laying down.

00:52:57.000 Maybe that's why I didn't find them.

00:52:58.000 I don't know why.

00:52:59.000 I couldn't figure that out.

00:53:00.000 But they were the hardest things to shoot with a paintball gun.

00:53:03.000 So there it is.

00:53:05.000 Paintballing drafts is one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. 0.99

00:53:08.000 Those wild game preserves in Africa, boy, that is a goddamn conundrum. 0.91

00:53:14.000 And if there's ever anything that's stirred up the... 0.98

00:53:19.000 Sort of the horrible feelings that anti-hunters have. 0.56

00:53:23.000 It's those game preserves where you could just go there and just kill these animals.

00:53:27.000 And it's such a catch-22 because these animals, a lot of them, were bordering on being extinct just a couple of decades ago.

00:53:36.000 And now their populations are thriving.

00:53:40.000 But the vast majority of them are in these high-fence game operations.

00:53:44.000 It's real weird.

00:53:46.000 Well, even in the places that aren't hunting, where they just are for photo safaris or what have you, you get, say you bring in, I'll pick a species, Kudu.

00:53:58.000 Kudu, there you go.

00:53:59.000 So, you bring in Kudu to this place where it could be 200,000 acres and people are going to come and take pictures of these animals.

00:54:07.000 Well, if there's no hunting there, even with the lions and other things that they have there, One of these populations may explode.

00:54:17.000 They cannot sustain themselves.

00:54:20.000 They have to manage these areas, too.

00:54:22.000 So a lot of times they do game captures, or they may allow some hunting that the people taking photos don't even know about.

00:54:29.000 But whenever you have these populations, it's the same as...

00:54:34.000 Managing animals in the state of Montana just on a smaller scale.

00:54:38.000 You have a limited amount of food supply.

00:54:40.000 You have X amount of animals.

00:54:42.000 These populations are growing at this rate.

00:54:43.000 The predators are only taking care of this much.

00:54:45.000 Therefore, excess has to be taken care of.

00:54:48.000 And some of those excess animals are animals that used to be near extinction.

00:54:52.000 And now, if you don't manage them, they'll all die off of wherever they're at.

00:54:57.000 It's so crazy.

00:54:57.000 Yeah.

00:54:58.000 It's so crazy also that this is a giant booming economy in Africa now.

00:55:03.000 Oh yeah.

00:55:04.000 And all that, it's a business on multi-levels too because the landowner now owns the meat, so then he'll either sell the meat or give it to people living there, working there.

00:55:17.000 Yeah, if you go over to Africa to hunt, you can't really bring that meat back, can you?

00:55:21.000 No.

00:55:21.000 But you can in New Zealand.

00:55:23.000 Yep, New Zealand you can.

00:55:24.000 How is that?

00:55:25.000 New Zealand's clean.

00:55:26.000 They don't have anything that we don't have.

00:55:28.000 So you can't, you couldn't bring meat into New Zealand, but you can bring meat out of New Zealand.

00:55:31.000 Okay, so you don't have to worry about some funky new Ebola type thing.

00:55:35.000 Yeah, they don't have anything.

00:55:38.000 Africa's crazy. 1.00

00:55:39.000 Yeah.

00:55:39.000 It's funny, Ebola, one of my friends is a professional hunter in South Africa, and a lot of people didn't want to go to Africa after they heard the Ebola.

00:55:48.000 Well, Africa's such a large continent, from where he is to where the Ebola is, is further away than Atlanta, Georgia.

00:55:59.000 Wow.

00:56:00.000 Not to Americans. 1.00

00:56:01.000 That's goddamn Africa. 1.00

00:56:03.000 It's just all the same shit. 1.00

00:56:05.000 You're going over there. 1.00

00:56:06.000 They all got AIDS. From the monkeys.

00:56:11.000 Yeah, we don't realize how big it is.

00:56:14.000 We did an image on the podcast recently where we pulled up, there's an image of Africa, the continent, and how enormous it is and how many other continents you could stuff inside of Africa.

00:56:27.000 And it's so shocking when you realize how big it really is.

00:56:32.000 Because on a map, there it is right there.

00:56:34.000 Look, China, United States, India... 0.99

00:56:38.000 Eastern Europe and a bunch of other shit in there, too. 0.99

00:56:41.000 I mean all of it just stuffed in there. 0.99

00:56:43.000 The UK, everything stuffed in there.

00:56:46.000 Jam-packed.

00:56:47.000 That's crazy.

00:56:48.000 That's nuts.

00:56:48.000 That's a cool picture.

00:56:49.000 It's a very cool picture. 0.99

00:56:50.000 This is a goddamn huge country or huge continent, rather. 0.99

00:56:53.000 That's the other thing is Africa. 0.99

00:56:55.000 People think of it as like United States, Africa.

00:56:57.000 Africa. 1.00

00:56:57.000 No, it's a fucking continent, man. 1.00

00:56:59.000 It's a continent. 1.00

00:57:00.000 Lots of different facets and people and problems and solutions.

00:57:04.000 And a huge spot of controversy now for hunting.

00:57:08.000 This whole trophy hunting thing.

00:57:10.000 Rinella wrote a great piece about it.

00:57:12.000 He wrote an amazing piece about this woman, these young girls that are getting involved in hunting, and it's become a career for a lot of them.

00:57:22.000 They look real pretty, and they go over there, shoot animals, and pose with them, and all the pro hunters get on their side, and all the anti-hunters attack their Facebooks, and death threats, and it's almost like a dance that everyone's doing.

00:57:33.000 But what he wrote about it, which I thought was really fascinating, he was like, I think a lot of this is sexism.

00:57:39.000 Oh, for sure.

00:57:39.000 For sure, right?

00:57:40.000 Yeah. 0.73

00:57:41.000 You're dealing with this pretty blonde who goes over there and shoots all these animals. 1.00

00:57:45.000 If it was a fat old guy from Denmark, nobody would give a fuck. 1.00

00:57:49.000 You wouldn't be storming that guy's Facebook page. 0.99

00:57:52.000 No. 1.00

00:57:52.000 People would find it distasteful that he shot a lion, like, what an asshole. 1.00

00:57:55.000 But that would be where it ends. 1.00

00:57:57.000 Yeah. 0.90

00:57:57.000 It's because, yeah, it's because it's women and as much as, it's the same people, it's kind of a hypocritical way to look at it too. 0.90

00:58:06.000 Because they go, oh, a lot of the people that are doing this, maybe it's just me being hypocritical as well, but a lot of the people that do it probably look at them as women and go, you know, if it's a man, it's different because hunting is a man's sport and they see these pretty girls doing it and they're out of place or something.

00:58:22.000 Whereas hunters don't even think like that.

00:58:23.000 It's like, oh, woman hunting, yeah, that's great.

00:58:25.000 Well, you know what it is too, I think?

00:58:26.000 It's also that they're attractive white women with blonde hair. 1.00

00:58:31.000 Yeah, exactly. 1.00

00:58:31.000 You just think, all these evil thoughts of racism and cruelty and just these monster Aryan women that are shooting animals and posing with big stupid whitened teeth smiles. 1.00

00:58:43.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:58:45.000 It is a form of sexism.

00:58:47.000 I feel like...

00:58:49.000 Now, on the flip side, some of them probably just...

00:58:53.000 I mean, if you wanted to jump in that spotlight, go shoot yourself a lion and wear a cheerleader outfit. 1.00

00:58:59.000 I'm actually planning on doing that next week.

00:59:02.000 This show will blow up Apex Predator. 0.95

00:59:04.000 Just give it my cheerleader outfit, have my pom-poms, and go out and chase some lions.

00:59:10.000 That's what you need to do. 0.91

00:59:11.000 You need to take over the transgender hunting market. 1.00

00:59:14.000 It's ripe. 0.89

00:59:15.000 It's ripe. 0.52

00:59:16.000 If you became the first openly transgender hunting, or at least cross-dresser. 0.95

00:59:21.000 Not transgender. 1.00

00:59:22.000 I don't want to go that deep into it. 0.98

00:59:25.000 When you start pulling out a scalpel and removing balls, I'm kind of like, let's step away from this issue. 0.99

00:59:31.000 Fucking with the endocrine system. 0.99

00:59:32.000 There's a lot going on there behind the scenes. 1.00

00:59:33.000 But, you know, hills and heels.

00:59:35.000 I'm doing all my elk hunts from now.

00:59:37.000 Solo hunters, and I've just got these stilettos, these pumps.

00:59:42.000 I'm really pumped for this adventure.

00:59:44.000 I wonder how many gay hunters there are, too.

00:59:46.000 That was something that we had gotten into before.

00:59:48.000 We were trying to describe, like, the average hunter.

00:59:51.000 And I said, well, how many people, like, you know, like, a lot of hunters tend to lean right-wing, and maybe that's because of gun rights or Second Amendment ideas, or just because it's, like, sort of a traditional, you know,

01:00:07.000 god guns and, you know...

01:00:09.000 Grills.

01:00:09.000 Yeah.

01:00:10.000 Grilled meat.

01:00:11.000 Not the kind that go in your teeth, right?

01:00:13.000 But they tend to, like, I would say the majority, I would say, is probably more than 60% are right-wing.

01:00:21.000 Yeah, I would probably say that.

01:00:22.000 Yeah.

01:00:23.000 But how many of them are gay? 0.63

01:00:25.000 I don't know.

01:00:26.000 Do you know any gay hunters?

01:00:27.000 I do, yeah.

01:00:27.000 You do?

01:00:28.000 Uh-huh.

01:00:28.000 Oh, there you go.

01:00:29.000 I know a few of them that are actually guides, like professional hunters.

01:00:32.000 Really?

01:00:32.000 Yeah.

01:00:32.000 Are they open?

01:00:34.000 Not.

01:00:35.000 No?

01:00:36.000 I mean... 1.00

01:00:36.000 They just tell you, hey, man, you don't want to share a tent with me because I will fuck you. 1.00

01:00:42.000 That's one of the... 1.00

01:00:43.000 Isn't one of those?

01:00:44.000 No, I mean, they're...

01:00:46.000 I don't really know if...

01:00:48.000 You just know that they're gay? 0.99

01:00:50.000 Yeah.

01:00:50.000 And it just doesn't come up?

01:00:51.000 Yeah.

01:00:53.000 Yeah, I think in this day and age, it's more about...

01:00:57.000 I mean, not that this needs to be discussed in depth, but I think homosexuality, it's more about if you really do care, unless you're dealing with some extremely aggressive individual that's, like, annoying with his gayness... 0.68

01:01:10.000 Like, just won't take no for an answer, which I have seen.

01:01:14.000 I have seen.

01:01:14.000 I know a comedian like that.

01:01:15.000 He's fucking brutal. 0.99

01:01:17.000 He's not so brutal anymore. 1.00

01:01:18.000 He's an older gentleman, I believe.

01:01:19.000 He's calmed down.

01:01:21.000 But back in the day, like, maybe 10, 15 years ago, I had a deal with him one night at a drunken bar in Montreal. 0.99

01:01:27.000 I was like, dude, you gotta get the fuck away from me. 0.99

01:01:29.000 Like, I'm not gay, you gotta stop. 1.00

01:01:31.000 He was brutal! 0.99

01:01:32.000 Brutal!

01:01:33.000 He was trying to get this other dude to come upstairs, and then he's like, what about you?

01:01:37.000 I'm like, come on, man.

01:01:37.000 Get out of here.

01:01:38.000 Just brutal.

01:01:40.000 You realize what it's like to be a woman.

01:01:43.000 I'm not a piece of meat you can stare at.

01:01:46.000 Eyes are up here. 1.00

01:01:47.000 You fucking asshole! 1.00

01:01:48.000 Stop looking at my non-functional breasts. 1.00

01:01:50.000 But then he started to insult you, and you're kind of like, well, what's wrong with me? 0.84

01:01:54.000 And then you latch on.

01:01:56.000 Yeah, he started playing mind games, and now you start wanting him.

01:02:01.000 I think in this day and age, there's going to come a point in time where the person that is homophobic, or racist, or any other prejudiced, that person is going to be very rare.

01:02:14.000 Very rare and despised.

01:02:17.000 Like right now, there's plenty of people that you could hang out with that would share in your racism or share in your homophobia.

01:02:25.000 But I think because of the internet and because people are kind of understanding people a little bit better and motivations a little bit better, that's gonna be less and less.

01:02:32.000 Yeah.

01:02:33.000 I think if more gay hunters were around, I think that would help. 1.00

01:02:37.000 So you gay people out there. 0.59

01:02:38.000 It's a great way to get fabulous furs. 0.98

01:02:42.000 Fabulous furs.

01:02:43.000 That's a touchy one, though.

01:02:44.000 Even people that like to eat meat, they have a hard time with furs, right?

01:02:48.000 Yeah.

01:02:48.000 Furs are tricky.

01:02:49.000 They are.

01:02:50.000 It falls into sort of the same ideas of trophy hunting.

01:02:54.000 You're turning an animal into an object.

01:02:56.000 Even people that eat meat.

01:02:58.000 Have a problem with furs.

01:02:59.000 Or, uh, furs or leathers, I guess.

01:03:02.000 But leathers not!

01:03:03.000 Leathers because you're eating the animal underneath it. 1.00

01:03:05.000 Well, look, I could wear these fucking Converse to Whole Foods. 0.99

01:03:08.000 Not a single vegan would give me a hard time. 0.99

01:03:09.000 These are leather.

01:03:10.000 Yeah.

01:03:10.000 You know, nobody would give me a hard time about these.

01:03:12.000 I'd be fine.

01:03:13.000 Leather belt?

01:03:13.000 No one's gonna get crazy.

01:03:15.000 Is that a leather interior in your car? 0.99

01:03:17.000 No one gives a fuck. 1.00

01:03:18.000 No one gives a fuck. 0.99

01:03:19.000 No one cares. 1.00

01:03:19.000 But, if you say that you eat an animal that's not on the average, everyday menu, You know, if you're one of those weird dudes that go squirrel hunting, you know, oh, you piece of shit, how could you shoot a squirrel? 1.00

01:03:33.000 What is Ranella's term? 1.00

01:03:35.000 He uses charismatic megafauna, like bears.

01:03:41.000 Bears are a big one.

01:03:42.000 People think of yogi and boo-boo and all these...

01:03:46.000 Different animals.

01:03:47.000 Yeah, we've given human personalities to non-humans. 0.95

01:03:52.000 Yeah.

01:03:53.000 So we attach to them.

01:03:54.000 But Bullwinkle never caught down. 0.99

01:03:56.000 Nobody gives a fuck if you shoot a moose. 0.99

01:03:57.000 No. 0.99

01:03:58.000 They really don't care.

01:03:58.000 But Rocky.

01:04:00.000 Oh, the squirrel.

01:04:01.000 The squirrel.

01:04:01.000 That's right.

01:04:02.000 But squirrels are cute.

01:04:04.000 They're fluffy.

01:04:05.000 They're like the most acceptable rodent ever.

01:04:07.000 I don't, yeah, I think they're just kind of big noisy rats, really.

01:04:11.000 I don't even, I've eaten coyote, and I've eaten coyote before I ate a squirrel.

01:04:15.000 Really?

01:04:16.000 I've never eaten squirrels.

01:04:17.000 I don't know why.

01:04:18.000 You've never even tried it?

01:04:19.000 Not that I wouldn't, but in my, where I grew up, squirrels, you just didn't eat squirrels.

01:04:25.000 Well, you got your coyote the same place I got my squirrel from Ranella.

01:04:28.000 Did you?

01:04:29.000 I ate some squirrel with Ranella.

01:04:29.000 Was it good?

01:04:30.000 You know, now, I feel like I shouldn't go through my life without eating a squirrel.

01:04:34.000 What?

01:04:35.000 I ate a pigeon the other day.

01:04:36.000 We had pigeons on our roof, and they were just crapping all over, so I shot it with a pelican and ate it.

01:04:44.000 Like, whatever, it's me.

01:04:46.000 That's hilarious.

01:04:47.000 I felt, well, yeah, I feel like when you utilize it, then it's, oh, it kind of, for myself, it justifies it.

01:04:55.000 Yeah.

01:04:55.000 Oh, yeah, it was like, now if I trap a rat in the garage, I'm not going to eat that.

01:05:01.000 Right.

01:05:02.000 It's something different, I don't know. 0.98

01:05:03.000 Unless you're really fucking hungry. 0.89

01:05:05.000 I was in New York City last week, and they had pigeon on the menu at a restaurant we ate at. 0.99

01:05:09.000 They call it squab?

01:05:10.000 Nope, it was pigeon.

01:05:12.000 Pigeon.

01:05:12.000 It just said pigeon.

01:05:13.000 Well, See, some animals get weird...

01:05:15.000 There's like a weird stipulation with them where it's not a tasty edible item.

01:05:22.000 But if you put dove there...

01:05:23.000 Hunters love doves, but pigeons are taboo.

01:05:26.000 Hunters love doves, but if you dove on a menu in a regular restaurant, the average person who's not a hunter would be like...

01:05:33.000 The peaceful bird?

01:05:35.000 It's the peace bird!

01:05:36.000 The bird of love?

01:05:38.000 That's the love bird! 0.90

01:05:39.000 It has the twig in its hand!

01:05:40.000 I always thought the love bird was the swallow.

01:05:42.000 I don't know.

01:05:43.000 Oh, that's not the love bird.

01:05:44.000 That's the lust bird. 0.59

01:05:45.000 Lust bird, yeah. 0.99

01:05:46.000 That's the dirty bird. 1.00

01:05:47.000 I forgot, yeah.

01:05:49.000 But pigeons were actually brought to North America as a food source.

01:05:52.000 When you look at pigeons that are in New York and they're flying all over the buildings and shitting all over the place, those pigeons were initially brought over as a food source.

01:06:01.000 They are non-native animals.

01:06:02.000 My great-grandma raised pigeons for food and sold them.

01:06:06.000 That was their pigeon farmers. 1.00

01:06:08.000 Squab salesmen.

01:06:10.000 Wow, squab salesman.

01:06:12.000 That's crazy!

01:06:14.000 You see it in a few Chinese food restaurants, squab salad and other things.

01:06:19.000 But they have to call it squab.

01:06:20.000 If you call it pigeon.

01:06:22.000 That's why I was amazed, this New York City restaurant. 0.99

01:06:25.000 But New York City is on some next level culinary type shit. 0.99

01:06:29.000 And, I mean, that's locally sourced, man. 0.99

01:06:32.000 That's pigeon from...

01:06:33.000 Yeah, I can see that.

01:06:35.000 It's from my jungle.

01:06:37.000 The jungle of my rooftop apartment.

01:06:40.000 Yeah, there's a lot of them.

01:06:42.000 If you want to serve pigeons in New York, that's like, you got a sustainable sort of an environment.

01:06:46.000 And they're fed well, too.

01:06:47.000 They eat lots of garbage. 0.99

01:06:49.000 Probably not good for you. 0.99

01:06:50.000 They used to say that lobster was like a poor person's food in New York.

01:06:55.000 Like, way back in the day, they used to, when people wanted lobsters, they would get them directly from the river.

01:07:00.000 They would get them right from the East River, and they would pull them out, and they would serve them in bars.

01:07:05.000 And they were like, poor people's food.

01:07:07.000 Because they're aqua cockroaches. 0.99

01:07:09.000 Yeah.

01:07:10.000 Well, they literally are.

01:07:12.000 Spiders.

01:07:13.000 If you have an allergy to shellfish, you also have an allergy to roaches.

01:07:16.000 We found that out on Fear Factor.

01:07:18.000 That's pretty crazy.

01:07:19.000 Yeah.

01:07:20.000 People that were allergic to shellfish, we gave them roaches and their throat started seizing up.

01:07:24.000 Oh, because they're eating roaches.

01:07:25.000 Yeah.

01:07:25.000 Yeah, I guess there's no other show where it's like, oh, cockroach over here.

01:07:29.000 Oh, yeah, they're ingesting these.

01:07:31.000 I can't believe that no one knew that.

01:07:33.000 They would ask people, what are your allergies?

01:07:36.000 They said, shellfish.

01:07:37.000 Okay, eat a roach. 1.00

01:07:38.000 Same fucking thing, man. 1.00

01:07:39.000 Did anybody go into anaphylactic shock or anything? 1.00

01:07:42.000 This guy got real close.

01:07:43.000 He was whistling.

01:07:46.000 His mouth or his windpipe was closing down. 1.00

01:07:50.000 When someone's dying from eating cockroach, do you kind of like shit talk them still? 0.99

01:07:54.000 Like, you scared? 1.00

01:07:55.000 Come on, man. 1.00

01:07:56.000 Suck it up. 1.00

01:07:56.000 It was much later after the show. 1.00

01:07:59.000 Yeah, they'd eaten the cockroach, they'd gone back to the hotel, and that's when the reaction started kicking in.

01:08:04.000 It wasn't an instantaneous reaction.

01:08:05.000 So I don't know if maybe they have a less strong reaction from eating the cockroach than they do from eating shellfish, or if that's how their reaction normally is.

01:08:13.000 I guess there's levels of allergies, right?

01:08:16.000 Yeah.

01:08:16.000 Some people are like acutely, like my friend Gary, he can't even come over my house because I have cats.

01:08:22.000 If he opens my door, he'll just start...

01:08:24.000 He literally can't even breathe the air inside my house.

01:08:27.000 But my wife's allergic to cats. 1.00

01:08:29.000 She lives with them.

01:08:30.000 She's fine.

01:08:31.000 She just has to wash her hands if they touch her or they lick her. 1.00

01:08:34.000 The cats have to be clean, we have to bathe them. 0.99

01:08:37.000 But my friend Gary can't even walk in the door.

01:08:39.000 So I guess it's like there's levels of it.

01:08:41.000 Yeah.

01:08:42.000 Yeah.

01:08:43.000 Let's put that on.

01:08:44.000 Cockroach allergy.

01:08:45.000 Is there game animals that people are allergic to?

01:08:47.000 Is there any animal?

01:08:48.000 Have you ever heard of a person being allergic to, like, venison or something like that?

01:08:51.000 No.

01:08:51.000 I know.

01:08:52.000 I'm allergic to antelope in a certain way.

01:08:55.000 Really?

01:08:55.000 Like, when I'm skinning it, the blood, when it dries, it gets hives itchy.

01:08:58.000 Some people get that.

01:08:59.000 Only antelope?

01:09:01.000 Yeah.

01:09:01.000 Did you ever get it checked?

01:09:02.000 No.

01:09:03.000 Huh.

01:09:04.000 I don't know.

01:09:05.000 But, I mean, cook it, eat it all the time.

01:09:06.000 I love antelope meat.

01:09:07.000 So, I don't know.

01:09:08.000 But I've talked to other people that that happens to you.

01:09:12.000 If you had to say, like, what is your all-time favorite meat if somebody restricted you to one meat for the rest of your life?

01:09:16.000 Oh, it's so tough.

01:09:18.000 Probably elk.

01:09:19.000 Yeah.

01:09:20.000 It's just something about elk.

01:09:22.000 It's delicious and healthy and it's good.

01:09:25.000 It's really good.

01:09:26.000 It's such a majestic animal, too.

01:09:28.000 I've only seen a few of them in the wild, but every time I see them, I'm just like, whoa, look at that thing.

01:09:33.000 And it's a fun animal to...

01:09:34.000 I mean...

01:09:35.000 It's a hard animal to hunt, a lot of people don't realize, but the payoff's amazing because it's pretty large and some of the best meat around.

01:09:44.000 I really, I keep coming back to elk as the best.

01:09:47.000 Yeah, it's very, very delicious.

01:09:49.000 It's an enormous animal.

01:09:51.000 Like, what's the biggest elk you've ever shot?

01:09:52.000 Body-wise?

01:09:53.000 Body-wise.

01:09:54.000 Oh, this year, me and my brother drew tags on southwest of Fognak Island up in Alaska, and we shot these elk.

01:10:03.000 Mine, no joke.

01:10:05.000 Probably weighed 1400 pounds. 1.00

01:10:07.000 Holy fuck. 1.00

01:10:08.000 Now, this is for people, like most elk are about 400 pounds. 1.00

01:10:12.000 Like Rocky Mountain elk, average, you know, younger bull.

01:10:16.000 I think the, what was it, Wyoming did a study and it's around there 400 and something pounds is the average elk weight.

01:10:24.000 This was a very large animal.

01:10:26.000 And the Fish and Game Department in Alaska sends out a thing saying, these elk are about the size of moose.

01:10:31.000 And yes, this elk was as big or bigger than any moose I've ever packed out, taken apart.

01:10:37.000 It was a brutal experience, to say the least.

01:10:42.000 Does it carry it?

01:10:43.000 Oh yeah.

01:10:43.000 We had to pack this thing.

01:10:45.000 Dude, it was crazy.

01:10:47.000 My lower back just started throbbing.

01:10:48.000 Me and my brother, we both shot bulls.

01:10:51.000 Mine was quite a bit larger body-wise than my brother's, but eight days of just straight toil, 100-plus pound packs.

01:11:00.000 Eight days of just carrying animals.

01:11:02.000 We filmed a documentary-style show on this.

01:11:06.000 It's not anything yet, but we recorded all our trip in a documentary fashion.

01:11:15.000 And recorded on his GPS our elevation.

01:11:19.000 Because we camped on this one lake and we had to climb up this big mountain, down the next one.

01:11:23.000 We shot these elk a ways away.

01:11:25.000 And it was...

01:11:27.000 I hate pulling...

01:11:29.000 I'm so bad with numbers.

01:11:30.000 I always misrepresent them, so I'm trying to think here.

01:11:33.000 It was something like 60 man hours of packing between the two of us.

01:11:36.000 30 hours of just straight carrying. 1.00

01:11:39.000 Holy fuck. 1.00

01:11:41.000 It was... 1.00

01:11:41.000 I got... 1.00

01:11:43.000 And I got really sick on that trip.

01:11:45.000 And I think it might have been partially due to just being physically done.

01:11:54.000 Just destroyed.

01:11:56.000 It was one of the most physical trips I've ever had.

01:11:59.000 But it was probably one of the best trips I've ever had.

01:12:01.000 And we came back with...

01:12:05.000 600 pounds of boned out meat.

01:12:08.000 And, get this, we put the meat up in a tree because we had to do caches.

01:12:14.000 I mean, this is a multiple day ordeal.

01:12:16.000 So we're doing these caches.

01:12:17.000 And this island has some of the largest brown bears in the world.

01:12:21.000 And we got them up in this one spruce tree as high as we could get them.

01:12:25.000 Probably 14, 15 feet up.

01:12:28.000 And two of the hindquarters in our cache got eaten.

01:12:32.000 By bears?

01:12:33.000 By a bear.

01:12:34.000 And they say these bears don't climb trees.

01:12:37.000 I don't necessarily believe that.

01:12:39.000 I think that they can get up a tree in some fashion because I don't think it was a 16...

01:12:43.000 I know it wouldn't have been a 16-foot bear, but somehow this bear got the meat out of this cache.

01:12:49.000 And so we came back with 600 pounds of meat minus two hindquarters. 0.99

01:12:54.000 Holy shit. 1.00

01:12:55.000 Insane. 1.00

01:12:56.000 And the hindquarters are boned out or no? 0.89

01:12:57.000 Yeah, boned out.

01:12:58.000 No bones in them.

01:12:59.000 Just meat.

01:12:59.000 Wow.

01:13:00.000 100% meat.

01:13:01.000 We took a picture where we got the plane.

01:13:03.000 We had to take two plane trips to get the meat out.

01:13:05.000 Just stacks of meat.

01:13:07.000 So how far were you traveling, like as the crow flies?

01:13:12.000 I love saying that.

01:13:13.000 As the crow flies, five miles.

01:13:16.000 As the crow flies, but you're going up and down.

01:13:18.000 So quite a bit more than that.

01:13:20.000 So from camp, the summit was 2,500 feet from our camp, vertical up.

01:13:24.000 So it's 5,000 each.

01:13:28.000 In my brother's, we had to go even over two ranges like that.

01:13:34.000 So just to get one trip back, it was 10,000 vert. 0.99

01:13:37.000 Fuck. 0.99

01:13:37.000 Just... 0.99

01:13:38.000 We documented the whole thing because it was just ridiculous.

01:13:41.000 And so I got sick and I don't know if it was from drinking water, but sometimes the gestation period of a lot of things you pick up.

01:13:48.000 I did drink out of one stream that my brother didn't and it might have been below an elk wallow.

01:13:54.000 Anyways, I get sick, and it happens to be this night that we had an insane walk back.

01:13:59.000 We got back, I think it was one in the morning, and we could have bivvied out, but the thought was, we set up a base camp, and if you bivvy out, you carry your camp on your back.

01:14:09.000 But then you still have to get all the meat back, and it was, in our minds, easier to just...

01:14:14.000 Do extra effort if we had to come out light, and then we would have room to carry meat so we wouldn't have to carry our gear and other things.

01:14:22.000 Right.

01:14:22.000 And with the bears as well.

01:14:24.000 I mean, these bears are everywhere, so we have an electric bear fence around our base camp.

01:14:28.000 Whoa.

01:14:29.000 And the night we come back, and I just got super sick.

01:14:33.000 It's gale force winds, 70-mile-an-hour winds.

01:14:36.000 And you're just trying to hold...

01:14:40.000 Throwing up.

01:14:41.000 Coming out both ends, essentially.

01:14:43.000 It's the worst time ever.

01:14:46.000 So you probably had Giardia or something like that.

01:14:48.000 I don't think it was Giardia.

01:14:51.000 Something.

01:14:51.000 Maybe some kind of food point.

01:14:53.000 Something.

01:14:53.000 But it had to have been bacterial in some way.

01:14:56.000 Because I had one of those...

01:14:59.000 It's a Z-Pak, three antibiotic things.

01:15:02.000 And I just so happened to throw it in.

01:15:04.000 I normally do, but it was a lucky deal because I took it out of my carry-on and threw it in the thing.

01:15:10.000 And it's been in my kit forever and I've never had to use it.

01:15:14.000 And that helped.

01:15:16.000 I don't know how I would have done it.

01:15:18.000 Because I was able to still take that and kind of kill off whatever was going on and then finish packing out our meat.

01:15:25.000 So, you're talking about 30 plus hours of just packing meat and carrying it.

01:15:31.000 Yeah.

01:15:32.000 And each pack, you're more than 100 pounds, right?

01:15:35.000 On your back?

01:15:35.000 Yeah.

01:15:36.000 Fucking A, man. 0.99

01:15:38.000 My brother's in really good shape, and he's a bigger guy than me. 0.99

01:15:42.000 So...

01:15:43.000 Carrying the same amount of weight for me.

01:15:45.000 But he's my little brother.

01:15:47.000 He can't carry more weight than me.

01:15:50.000 I hope he doesn't listen to this because I was hurt.

01:15:52.000 I didn't want him to know it.

01:15:54.000 I still hurt from it.

01:15:56.000 He's like a competition to see who breaks first.

01:15:59.000 Exactly.

01:16:00.000 Who can deal with the hardship better.

01:16:02.000 Exactly.

01:16:03.000 If I'm ever in a wilderness hard situation, that's the guy I want in my corner.

01:16:08.000 He's just an awesome dude.

01:16:10.000 And because of it, it ended up being...

01:16:13.000 One of the coolest trips ever.

01:16:14.000 And while we're hiking, the thing we do, you're just like walking and working hard.

01:16:19.000 All we do is talk about how few calories.

01:16:21.000 We memorize the amount of calories in every mountain house.

01:16:26.000 Mountain house, those meals, those freeze-dried meals.

01:16:29.000 And when you're overexerting and just eating freeze-dried meals, nothing is better than some fresh elk steak over the fire.

01:16:36.000 I was hanging out with this photographer when we went moose hunting, this guy Sam, and he was talking about this trip that he had went on where they had not brought enough food, and everyone on the trip had lost like 30 pounds, 20 pounds.

01:16:50.000 You can lose so much weight.

01:16:51.000 When I first started guiding, every year I would lose 20 to 30 pounds.

01:16:56.000 Wow.

01:16:56.000 It's starving.

01:16:58.000 You're starving.

01:16:58.000 It's essentially starvation.

01:17:00.000 Essentially.

01:17:00.000 Yeah.

01:17:01.000 You force your body to keep going, and it starts eating off fat and muscle.

01:17:05.000 And it doesn't take much to do, because you almost come to a point when you're working so hard that you physically can't, you just get sick of eating almost.

01:17:16.000 They need some better, higher, you just need to bring sticks of butter or something.

01:17:21.000 Like fat, just actual fat.

01:17:22.000 Realistically.

01:17:23.000 Yeah.

01:17:23.000 Yeah, when people say that I can't lose weight, man, I can't lose weight.

01:17:26.000 You're not trying.

01:17:28.000 This is what you need to do. 0.99

01:17:29.000 Get one of those Tenzing packs, throw a fucking rock in it like Cameron Haynes does and go climb up a mountain. 1.00

01:17:34.000 Oh, yeah. 0.99

01:17:35.000 He puts a 130-pound rock in his pack.

01:17:37.000 That's one of the ways he prepares for elk season.

01:17:39.000 He puts a rock in his pack and he hikes mountains.

01:17:42.000 I was on Facebook or something.

01:17:46.000 He just did the Boston Marathon.

01:17:48.000 For a guy in his bodybuilder status to run like that is semi-unhuman, really. 0.99

01:17:54.000 That motherfucker works hard. 1.00

01:17:55.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

01:17:56.000 He does it.

01:17:56.000 He lives it.

01:17:57.000 He lifts weights every day.

01:17:58.000 Seven days a week.

01:17:59.000 I go, how many days do you work out?

01:18:00.000 Every day.

01:18:01.000 Every day.

01:18:01.000 You never take a day off.

01:18:02.000 He doesn't take days off.

01:18:03.000 He just pushes.

01:18:03.000 I mean, he's always hurt.

01:18:04.000 He's always sore.

01:18:05.000 He's always aching, barely can get out of bed, has to drink coffee, take aspirin, hot shower, and then starts running.

01:18:12.000 Huh.

01:18:12.000 It's crazy.

01:18:13.000 It's just tough.

01:18:14.000 Yeah, it's cool.

01:18:15.000 It's just tough.

01:18:16.000 Yeah.

01:18:17.000 There's certain people, man, they just, and a lot of them are hunters, like, Rinella's one of those guys. 0.95

01:18:21.000 It's just fucking tough. 0.54

01:18:23.000 Just, they have this mental toughness, the ability to endure discomfort that the average person just doesn't get, and I think it's accentuated by this life-or-death struggle that you experience on a day-to-day basis when you're hunting. 0.98

01:18:37.000 Yeah, you can kind of compartmentalize certain aches and pains and hunger and thirst and cold You just block that shit out and keep going or the average person sort of wallows in that stuff But you know you have you have to you come into this this you have to do these certain things where you're tasked with something It's probably a lot harder than The average person thinks you can do,

01:19:00.000 but once you've done it once, a lot of this stuff's mental. 0.98

01:19:05.000 And that's the Apex Predator show that I've been doing comes back to a lot of shit's just mental. 0.99

01:19:11.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:19:12.000 It's so many things.

01:19:15.000 A lot is mental with almost everything.

01:19:17.000 Yeah.

01:19:17.000 With almost, like, you know, tattoos.

01:19:20.000 Here, this is a bad example, but everybody says, like, how bad tattoos hurt.

01:19:23.000 I fell asleep when I was getting tattooed.

01:19:25.000 Like, it doesn't hurt.

01:19:27.000 I mean, it hurts a little, but it doesn't hurt like someone kicking you in the head. 1.00

01:19:31.000 It doesn't hurt like someone trying to choke your fucking neck off. 1.00

01:19:33.000 No. 1.00

01:19:33.000 It doesn't hurt. 1.00

01:19:34.000 Like, a lot of things hurt.

01:19:36.000 Like, they really hurt.

01:19:38.000 That's just discomfort.

01:19:39.000 And there's a difference between discomfort and real pain.

01:19:42.000 Yeah.

01:19:43.000 And what you can endure.

01:19:44.000 Yeah.

01:19:45.000 A lot of times people start focusing on the discomfort, and it accentuates.

01:19:52.000 Their entire focus becomes this pain instead of doing the task, like blocking out whatever discomfort that you have, dealing with it, and get through it.

01:20:01.000 And going on.

01:20:02.000 Sometimes that Alaska trip, while we're doing it, we're like, would you ever do this again?

01:20:08.000 Nah.

01:20:09.000 And then when it's over, we were so excited, we just wanted to do it again.

01:20:13.000 And it was because we hurt the whole time.

01:20:14.000 Like, when was the last time you just hurt for a week?

01:20:17.000 Just punished your...

01:20:18.000 And it's like this cool experience where you push yourself to these limits, and then you feel...

01:20:25.000 Awesome afterwards.

01:20:26.000 Well, after it's done.

01:20:27.000 After it's done.

01:20:28.000 In the middle of the toil, you're like, oh, God, this is not fun.

01:20:31.000 But you get back to camp that night.

01:20:33.000 We flew in a few beers, crack open a beer in the middle of nowhere.

01:20:38.000 And you go, yep, let's do this again.

01:20:43.000 Ranella has a whole way of describing it that he said he learned from one of his buddies, is that there's different kinds of fun.

01:20:50.000 There's the kind of fun that's fun while you're doing it, but it's not fun later.

01:20:55.000 Right.

01:20:55.000 And there's a kind of fun that's not fun while you're doing it, but afterwards you have amazing fun memories, and it's awesome.

01:21:03.000 It's weird.

01:21:04.000 Yeah.

01:21:04.000 I noticed, and you, you know, I don't know if you've experienced this yet, but for me...

01:21:12.000 I've hunted a lot.

01:21:15.000 I almost like to punish myself.

01:21:18.000 I like it to be hard.

01:21:19.000 I like it to be a challenge.

01:21:20.000 I will actually create it.

01:21:22.000 I just did this hunt in New Zealand where I was hunting these fallow deer.

01:21:28.000 At any given time for the first few days, I could have shot a deer.

01:21:33.000 A lot of people don't realize, as hunters, it's not always the goal to just go shoot something.

01:21:38.000 It's part of the experience.

01:21:40.000 And so for me, I just kept passing up animals because the experience wasn't right.

01:21:44.000 Until the last day, when I was supposed to leave early, and I ended up, oh, I'm just going to be hunting for two hours and I don't bring any water.

01:21:51.000 And I ended up hunting all day and going...

01:21:55.000 I don't even know how far, 18 miles maybe, and I didn't bring any food, I didn't bring any water, and I'm hurting, and I ended up shooting a deer at last light.

01:22:04.000 And now, to me, it was an awesome experience.

01:22:08.000 It made the trip.

01:22:10.000 It made that memory.

01:22:11.000 The hardship made the memory.

01:22:12.000 And something that I, as a hunter, that non-hunters don't really maybe understand is having these antlers around.

01:22:20.000 And when the meat's long gone, I can look at that and remember the hardship and the journey and the adventure and these other things about the experience.

01:22:28.000 And the meat was a byproduct, but these are the memories that I, like you look at that moose and you think of something completely different than I do.

01:22:34.000 You remember how it went down.

01:22:36.000 You remember, you know, maybe the struggle or carrying the meat back or whatever.

01:22:41.000 So I may have a rack in my house that's sitting up on the mantle.

01:22:45.000 Why is that one on the mantle and that one Well, that one I had to work real hard for.

01:22:49.000 So I look at it and I think it reminds me constantly of what I went through.

01:22:53.000 When you say that the experience wasn't right, what do you mean by that?

01:22:57.000 Like, I feel sometimes it just wasn't a challenge.

01:23:01.000 I would have been shooting an animal.

01:23:04.000 The adventure wasn't there.

01:23:05.000 The challenge wasn't there.

01:23:07.000 It just wasn't the right time.

01:23:09.000 I wanted to keep going until it happened.

01:23:13.000 I don't know.

01:23:13.000 It's weird.

01:23:14.000 But for me, hunting is about the adventure and everything behind it, as well as obviously getting meat.

01:23:21.000 But there comes a point where, okay, if I didn't get a deer this week, well, maybe I'll get one next week.

01:23:26.000 I'm not going to starve to death.

01:23:27.000 I've got a freezer with meat.

01:23:30.000 But I also want to keep that freezer full.

01:23:33.000 Yeah.

01:23:34.000 Right.

01:23:34.000 So it comes to a point for me where it's about other things as well.

01:23:38.000 The experience, the adventure, the meat, all combining into this...

01:23:44.000 If it's too easy, I just don't like it.

01:23:46.000 That's fascinating.

01:23:47.000 I don't know.

01:23:47.000 It'll happen.

01:23:49.000 For me, it happened...

01:23:50.000 I started...

01:23:51.000 When I was younger...

01:23:53.000 I never wanted to stop hunting because I liked the experience of being out there so much.

01:23:58.000 So I would do what a lot of people call trophy hunting, and I'm air quoting that, because it means something different to me.

01:24:04.000 I would look for a bigger deer because I wanted to keep hunting and make it more of a challenge for myself.

01:24:12.000 I see what you're saying.

01:24:13.000 See what I'm saying?

01:24:13.000 So instead of, like, some people, they want a bigger deer so they could say, hey, I got a 190 buck and, you know, 190 inch and look, it's on my, you know, and they'll measure everything and look at his tines and look how big his...

01:24:25.000 For you, it was just, it's a more difficult pursuit.

01:24:29.000 Right.

01:24:29.000 Just a...

01:24:36.000 I think?

01:24:47.000 Out hunting.

01:24:48.000 That's funny.

01:24:49.000 I'm the opposite. 1.00

01:24:50.000 I'll shoot that fucker in the first minute. 1.00

01:24:52.000 I would love to set the kent up, turn around. 1.00

01:24:56.000 Oh, look!

01:24:57.000 Look what I got.

01:24:58.000 Boom! 0.99

01:24:59.000 Cut it up, start eating it on the spot.

01:25:01.000 But I haven't been hunting as long.

01:25:03.000 I think when you've been hunting as long as you have, also, you kind of appreciate what you appreciate after the fact.

01:25:09.000 You have a real deep understanding of what it means to you.

01:25:14.000 Whereas to me, it's all pretty new.

01:25:16.000 I've only been doing it for three, not even three years now.

01:25:19.000 So it's like, oh, crazy.

01:25:20.000 We're shooting a turkey now.

01:25:22.000 Oh, this is cool.

01:25:23.000 We're going to go shoot this.

01:25:24.000 I'm going to eat that.

01:25:26.000 It's fun.

01:25:27.000 I enjoy it.

01:25:27.000 I love, you know, the turkey, I don't know if I'll do that again.

01:25:31.000 I might, I mean, it's not that I didn't like it, but what I didn't like about the turkey is you work all day and, you know, several days in a row to get a turkey, and you can only, it's like a meal.

01:25:42.000 It's like a meal for, like, my family.

01:25:45.000 They couldn't even eat the whole turkey.

01:25:46.000 It's like, it's not that big, you know?

01:25:48.000 That's what, in Nevada, chucker hunting's big, and you might work your... 0.67

01:25:51.000 Chucker?

01:25:51.000 Chucker.

01:25:52.000 What's a chucker?

01:25:53.000 It's a partridge.

01:25:55.000 It looks...

01:25:56.000 They're from the Middle East. 0.57

01:25:58.000 They aren't native, but they've been released into the mountain.

01:26:00.000 And they're always...

01:26:01.000 They live in cliffs, and it's a really hard animal to hunt.

01:26:04.000 And you may go out and only shoot one bird and hike.

01:26:07.000 My friend put his little track-my-run thing on, and we're hiking.

01:26:12.000 We get back to the truck after truck, and we're like, I'm pretty tired.

01:26:15.000 He's like, 22 miles.

01:26:17.000 Because you're walking from sunup to sundown.

01:26:19.000 Right.

01:26:20.000 And it's like, well, we got one bird between the three of us.

01:26:24.000 It's just, it's...

01:26:26.000 Where I grew up, that was the thing to do.

01:26:28.000 But it's not even lunch.

01:26:29.000 No.

01:26:30.000 But it's more, you're out there, you're working hard for it. 0.87

01:26:34.000 And when you shoot six of them, then you really feel like you've accomplished something.

01:26:39.000 How much is one, as far as the amount of meat you get out of one?

01:26:44.000 Like, two quail.

01:26:46.000 Wow.

01:26:46.000 Yeah.

01:26:47.000 So like six ounces, eight ounces maybe?

01:26:50.000 Yeah.

01:26:51.000 Maybe?

01:26:52.000 Not even?

01:26:53.000 Wow. 1.00

01:26:54.000 Fuck that. 1.00

01:26:54.000 I don't have that kind of time. 1.00

01:26:57.000 But it's just the pursuit of it as well.

01:27:00.000 So you get into...

01:27:01.000 And then the more you fail, the harder you want to try to succeed.

01:27:06.000 So the next time you go out, you want to go further and hunt harder and try to shoot better.

01:27:12.000 I don't know.

01:27:13.000 That's interesting.

01:27:14.000 So hunting isn't just about going out and acquiring meat.

01:27:20.000 Hunting is also about the challenge of the pursuit of the animal, being the hunter, being the predator out there trying to outsmart or out-hunt animals.

01:27:31.000 Defy their natural instincts, figure out how to avoid the wind blowing in their nose, figuring out how to approach them the right way, and to make it even more difficult, going after the bigger ones that are smarter, that have been alive longer, making it a more difficult task,

01:27:47.000 and making the appreciation of the accomplishment much better.

01:27:50.000 Yeah, and the harder something is, the more skill you need, the more you've honed your abilities.

01:27:57.000 In the end.

01:27:58.000 And I've always said, the harder you work for something, the better it tastes.

01:28:02.000 If you ask me what the best tasting thing is, elk, it's because you work hard for elk.

01:28:05.000 Now, Himalayan tar in New Zealand, I think they're delicious.

01:28:09.000 It's a goat that lives in the mountains, but you work your ass off for it, and when you sit down to eat it, you appreciate it.

01:28:15.000 It's just a different feeling.

01:28:17.000 What does it taste like?

01:28:18.000 Because goat, a lot of people don't like.

01:28:20.000 It doesn't taste like goat.

01:28:20.000 It tastes like venison.

01:28:22.000 Really?

01:28:22.000 It's kind of got marbled fat in the meat, which is different.

01:28:26.000 Mountain goats have that as well.

01:28:27.000 They have a wild coat.

01:28:29.000 Yeah.

01:28:29.000 To pull up an image of a Himalayan tar.

01:28:32.000 I call them, they're gorilla grizzly bear lions.

01:28:35.000 T-A-H-R, I think? 0.98

01:28:36.000 T-A-H-R, yes. 0.97

01:28:38.000 Or T-H-A-R, either way. 0.88

01:28:39.000 That's a wild looking animal.

01:28:41.000 Yeah, they're cool.

01:28:42.000 Yeah, they look like a werewolf or a Chewbacca or something like that.

01:28:45.000 Their back looks like a gorilla because they've got these silver stripes down the back.

01:28:51.000 And then they've got a lion's mane on the front.

01:28:53.000 Yeah, look at that thing. 1.00

01:28:54.000 What the fuck? 1.00

01:28:56.000 What a wild looking animal. 1.00

01:28:58.000 I think they're probably one of my favorite species.

01:28:59.000 That is so strange.

01:29:01.000 And that's a very difficult hunt, right?

01:29:03.000 Can be.

01:29:04.000 Depends how you want to do it.

01:29:05.000 Now it's like, for me, I want to walk up from the bottom, but you could take a helicopter to the top.

01:29:09.000 Do people do that?

01:29:10.000 Oh yeah.

01:29:10.000 In New Zealand?

01:29:11.000 Yeah.

01:29:12.000 Really?

01:29:12.000 Yeah.

01:29:13.000 Look at that fucking face. 1.00

01:29:15.000 That looks like a baboon or something. 1.00

01:29:16.000 Crazy. 0.91

01:29:17.000 Wild-looking.

01:29:18.000 Half-lion.

01:29:20.000 And they have a red meat that's just like venison.

01:29:23.000 Yeah.

01:29:23.000 Wow.

01:29:25.000 Now, some people, they fly up on a helicopter, they shoot these things, and then they, what, fly back down?

01:29:30.000 Mm-hmm.

01:29:32.000 Now, like, what are the elevations you're climbing when you're dealing with these things?

01:29:35.000 Mm-hmm.

01:29:38.000 4,000, 5,000 feet maybe.

01:29:40.000 Wow.

01:29:41.000 Depends where you're at.

01:29:42.000 3 to 5?

01:29:43.000 3 to 6?

01:29:44.000 And it's all weird, rocky, slippery terrain.

01:29:48.000 Very precarious.

01:29:50.000 I watched one of your episodes of Solo Hunter when you went after these things.

01:29:54.000 Oh, yeah.

01:29:54.000 Did I get one or did I fail?

01:29:56.000 It was one you didn't get one.

01:29:57.000 Oh, with the bow.

01:29:58.000 Yeah.

01:29:59.000 Yeah, you go, I mean, just the adventure and getting up there is half the fun in the first place. 0.99

01:30:04.000 What the fuck is that pounding? 0.99

01:30:05.000 Is that next door? 1.00

01:30:06.000 What are they doing?

01:30:08.000 Demo.

01:30:09.000 Building a robot.

01:30:11.000 Yeah, it seems like those trips are very strange, too, because you were staying in one of those weird cabins that they have set up there for people that can just use them anytime they want.

01:30:23.000 They can go up there and hang out in those cabins.

01:30:26.000 Public huts.

01:30:27.000 Yeah, that's pretty cool.

01:30:28.000 Is there that many people that go hunting up there?

01:30:30.000 Do they have those things?

01:30:31.000 Are they for mountaineers?

01:30:32.000 Oh, they're for mountaineering.

01:30:33.000 Most of the ones I stay in are for ice climbing because I like hunting around the glaciers.

01:30:37.000 So they're all ice climber huts, like where you base out of before you go ice climbing.

01:30:43.000 That's a really popular pursuit around there?

01:30:46.000 No.

01:30:47.000 But there's so much where they have huts?

01:30:49.000 Yeah, because, well, yeah, because it's tough terrain, and if that's your sport, these groups, like, build these huts.

01:30:56.000 There's historical significance to some of them, too.

01:30:58.000 They were put in for culling expeditions back when animals were running rampant there because they're all non-natives. 1.00

01:31:05.000 I like to talk about New Zealand because it's a place that I've...

01:31:10.000 Come to love for a lot of reasons.

01:31:12.000 But when you talk about conservation, there is completely different than we think of it here.

01:31:16.000 It's almost...

01:31:19.000 It's a different world, and it's really hard to explain to people that don't understand it because the animals aren't technically supposed to be there, but we want them there, and they can't get rid of them.

01:31:29.000 So there's a completely different system in place there.

01:31:33.000 They don't have any tags.

01:31:35.000 You don't have to have a license.

01:31:36.000 You just go hunt.

01:31:37.000 Not yet.

01:31:38.000 Well, you have to have this thing you get online for free, but things might change.

01:31:43.000 Who knows?

01:31:44.000 But as it is right now...

01:31:45.000 Yeah, it's just open.

01:31:47.000 Is there some movement to try to change it and regulate it?

01:31:51.000 I think it looks like there might be.

01:31:53.000 Not necessarily, just, not that they want less animal shot, because a lot of people there would want them all gone if they could.

01:32:00.000 I mean, they poison animals, the government shoots them out of helicopters.

01:32:03.000 What?

01:32:04.000 Yeah, they have to.

01:32:04.000 Because there's so many of them.

01:32:05.000 No predators.

01:32:07.000 And no knuckleheads want to bring wolves over there or anything, do they? 0.97

01:32:10.000 Back in...

01:32:11.000 Back during...

01:32:13.000 I think it was World War II, they proposed to bring mountain lions.

01:32:17.000 Well, it's the woman who swallowed the fly problem. 1.00

01:32:21.000 Like, swallow flies, so I'm going to swallow a frog.

01:32:23.000 And what they found out is...

01:32:25.000 So they bring in rabbits, and then they bring in ferrets to kill the rabbits and weasels, and then they find out that the rabbits and...

01:32:32.000 The ferrets are into killing these endangered flightless birds because they're a lot easier to kill than a rabbit.

01:32:38.000 And so the non-natives eat the native plants and kill off the native wildlife. 1.00

01:32:43.000 Did you find that, did you read that study they did recently on deer and deer eating birds?

01:32:49.000 No.

01:32:50.000 And that it's incredibly common for deer to eat birds.

01:32:53.000 And that not only will deer eat birds, like they'll find nesting birds and they'll eat them.

01:32:58.000 They'll find ground nesting birds, they'll eat chicks. 0.96

01:33:01.000 But they also found they had these birds that were caught in a net.

01:33:06.000 And much to their surprise, mature deer were walking up to these birds that were caught in the net and just eating them alive.

01:33:13.000 And that birds apparently are on the menu for deer.

01:33:17.000 For deer.

01:33:17.000 Yeah.

01:33:17.000 That's interesting.

01:33:18.000 No one knew.

01:33:19.000 Boots of protein.

01:33:20.000 This is a really, really recent discovery.

01:33:23.000 I wonder if, was there more bucks or does, or do they even know?

01:33:27.000 I don't know.

01:33:28.000 Jamie, see if you can pull up that article.

01:33:31.000 That's all you got already.

01:33:32.000 Deer have been eating birds for years.

01:33:34.000 They do need a lot of protein.

01:33:36.000 Especially the females need it when they're pregnant, and then the males need it when they're growing their antlers. 0.84

01:33:44.000 But they pick out higher protein grass and other things.

01:33:47.000 It makes sense that if they eat a bird, then they get a little bit more protein in their diet.

01:33:51.000 They're eating the heads and legs of live seabird chicks as a way to get minerals they need to grow their antlers. 0.67

01:33:57.000 Scientists believe that surprising addition to the red deer's diet stems from mineral deficiencies in the vegetation they eat.

01:34:04.000 Wow.

01:34:04.000 There's a bunch of different versions of this.

01:34:07.000 There's more than one study that they've sort of...

01:34:10.000 This is from 2003. This is not the one.

01:34:13.000 There's one from much more recent.

01:34:15.000 That's pretty crazy.

01:34:16.000 Yeah.

01:34:17.000 Field cameras.

01:34:18.000 Yeah.

01:34:20.000 Yeah, this is the most recent one.

01:34:22.000 This is the North American one. 0.60

01:34:24.000 It's crazy, in North Dakota.

01:34:25.000 They set up nest cams over nests of songbirds.

01:34:29.000 Expected to see a lot of the nestlings and eggs getting eaten by ground squirrels, foxes, and badgers.

01:34:34.000 Squirrels hit 13 nests.

01:34:36.000 The other meat-eaters made a poor showing.

01:34:38.000 Foxes and weasels only took one nest each.

01:34:40.000 You know what fearsome animal outdid either of those two sleek, resourceful predators?

01:34:46.000 White-tailed deer.

01:34:47.000 Hmm.

01:34:48.000 They ate living nestlings right out of the nests.

01:34:50.000 And if you're thinking that must be a mistake, that the deer were chewing their way through some vegetation that happened upon a mouthful of bird, think again.

01:34:57.000 Up in Canada, a group of ornithologists were studying adult birds.

01:35:03.000 In order to examine them closely, researchers used mist nets.

01:35:08.000 Usually draped between trees are designed to trap birds or bats gently so that they could be collected, studied, and released.

01:35:15.000 When a herd of deer came by, the deer walked up to the struggling birds and ate them alive right out of the nets.

01:35:21.000 Crazy.

01:35:22.000 That's cool.

01:35:24.000 It is wild, man.

01:35:25.000 It is wild.

01:35:28.000 Huh.

01:35:29.000 A cow! 1.00

01:35:29.000 They found a cow eating a recently hatched chick. 1.00

01:35:33.000 Wow.

01:35:34.000 Herbivores eat meat when they're not getting enough nutrients in their diet.

01:35:37.000 That's interesting.

01:35:38.000 It is.

01:35:39.000 Yeah.

01:35:40.000 It is really fascinating.

01:35:43.000 I wonder...

01:35:44.000 It's amazing.

01:35:45.000 I wonder what other animals do things that we don't even know about.

01:35:48.000 Just happen upon it accidentally.

01:35:50.000 I'm sure there's a lot.

01:35:51.000 Yeah.

01:35:52.000 I'm sure.

01:35:53.000 You know, I mean, it's one of the things they've found over the last, I don't know how many years, is how many bears eat baby bears.

01:36:00.000 And that it's not just a matter of, like, trying to keep their bloodline or trying to discourage up-and-coming males.

01:36:07.000 They just eat babies. 1.00

01:36:09.000 Like, that's just their thing.

01:36:11.000 The food source.

01:36:11.000 When they get out of the den, when they're done hibernating, they immediately seek out cubs.

01:36:19.000 That's one of their favorite things to eat.

01:36:22.000 I've also heard that they do that for breeding reasons as well, because then the female will cycle again.

01:36:28.000 Right.

01:36:29.000 Yeah, there's all sorts of speculation about that, but when we were in Alberta last year, one of the guys we were with, they had seen a female eat its own baby.

01:36:41.000 Wow. 1.00

01:36:41.000 It's really fucked. 1.00

01:36:42.000 The male had killed it, and then the female finished it off. 1.00

01:36:45.000 That's pretty weird.

01:36:46.000 The male came in and tried to attack the female, attacked her cub, killed her cub, started eating her cub.

01:36:52.000 She chased him off, and then she finished it.

01:36:54.000 Hmm.

01:36:55.000 Yeah.

01:36:56.000 That's my snack.

01:36:57.000 That's harsh. 1.00

01:36:59.000 That's fucking harsh, man. 1.00

01:37:01.000 Mom, why are you eating me? 1.00

01:37:02.000 It's not a me anymore.

01:37:04.000 Dead. 1.00

01:37:06.000 It's a harsh fucking world. 1.00

01:37:08.000 The world of nature. 1.00

01:37:10.000 Oh, yeah.

01:37:10.000 That's doing the Apex Brighter show.

01:37:13.000 One of the things that really...

01:37:17.000 We started out doing a TV thing and you have these ideas of what should happen and that never freaking happens.

01:37:23.000 Ever.

01:37:24.000 Things always go wrong or something.

01:37:27.000 But that's why I wanted to take and look at it as a learning experience, not necessarily come out with these preconceived ideas of what's going to happen.

01:37:35.000 I just want to...

01:37:36.000 Act as this animal in the wild, learn from it, and then see what its life would be like.

01:37:42.000 And one of the things that I've come to the conclusion of is a lot of these animals that we see as being super efficient and easily surviving, it's a hard knock life for them.

01:37:54.000 It's not as easy.

01:37:56.000 A lot of animals scrounge and are hunting all day every day into the night just to get enough food to sustain themselves.

01:38:03.000 And then there's other animals that it is easier.

01:38:06.000 But for the most part, I've learned that these animals that hunt daily, it's not as easy as you might think.

01:38:13.000 You always see the highlight reel of the lion catching the gazelle, but it's pretty hard even for the lion to catch the gazelle.

01:38:21.000 It's a pretty interesting thought.

01:38:25.000 And then we go out as humans and it's a lot, essentially, it's a lot easier for us to hunt and catch things than it is for these natural predators or animals.

01:38:34.000 Well, I can imagine.

01:38:35.000 We have guns.

01:38:36.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:38:37.000 Well, that's the archery thing, too, right?

01:38:39.000 That's one of the reasons why people enjoy archery, is because it is a much more difficult challenge.

01:38:43.000 You have to figure out how to get between, you know, 20 and 50 yards.

01:38:48.000 Proximity.

01:38:49.000 Yeah.

01:38:49.000 And...

01:38:52.000 Yeah, it just goes back to that challenge of what makes it hard and why you do it.

01:38:58.000 I mean, there's people that only bow hunt. 0.89

01:38:59.000 There's people that bow hunt and rifle hunt. 0.89

01:39:02.000 There's people that don't traditional bow hunt.

01:39:06.000 And it's all based on the challenge and the experience for them, as well as a lot of ideals as far as Okay, well I'm a bow hunter and if you shoot with a gun, that's too easy for me.

01:39:19.000 But for me, I do whatever kind of hunting because I just love hunting.

01:39:23.000 Yeah, there's a lot of people that have, there's like a purity involved in like shooting something with a bow because it's much more difficult than shooting something with a rifle.

01:39:30.000 See, I'm cool with that, but sometimes for me, I don't like when hunters are against hunters.

01:39:36.000 Like, if you're, oh, you aren't a hunter because you shoot it with a rifle, and then, well, the traditional dude's like, you aren't a hunter because you shoot it with a compound bow, and there's a guy out there wearing no shoes going, you guys need to grab him with your hands.

01:39:49.000 And there's some other dude who's like, you gotta catch him with your teeth.

01:39:52.000 You know what?

01:39:53.000 Can't we all just get along?

01:39:55.000 Yeah, it's already a much aligned community.

01:39:59.000 I ran into Jim Shockey at this thing, and he's always been a hero of mine.

01:40:05.000 I was talking to him about, because he came on your podcast and I listened to that, and I thought...

01:40:10.000 That was an awesome podcast.

01:40:12.000 The guy's so well-spoken.

01:40:13.000 Yeah, I love that dude.

01:40:14.000 He can talk about anything, and you're just like, oh wow, that makes sense to me now.

01:40:18.000 But, yeah, I was kind of talking to him about a few things, and in a few words, he's like, don't fuck it up.

01:40:29.000 Don't be against hunters.

01:40:31.000 And I thought, yeah, that makes sense.

01:40:33.000 Because, really...

01:40:35.000 It's all hunting.

01:40:36.000 We've all got the same desire to go out and harvest our meat and hunt and be out in the wild.

01:40:41.000 What's the matter if you're doing it with a bow or on public land or private land or with a spear or with a gun?

01:40:48.000 I mean, the end result's the same.

01:40:50.000 It's a dead animal.

01:40:51.000 Well, he tried to make it more difficult for himself to make the challenge.

01:40:54.000 So his challenge is he uses muzzleloaders all the time.

01:40:58.000 Yeah.

01:40:59.000 Even in regular rifle season, he uses a muzzleloader because he only gets one shot.

01:41:02.000 Exactly.

01:41:03.000 And that's, for me, if I'm hunting with a rifle, then I may try to find something that's bigger or pack into an area that's further or who knows what I do.

01:41:14.000 Just to make it more of a challenge.

01:41:15.000 And then there's some times where obviously the only intention is I'm looking for meat and I need that meat now.

01:41:20.000 But for the most part, yeah, either way, you're still out there hunting.

01:41:27.000 What brings me back to your buffalo show.

01:41:30.000 Because the Buffalo Show was a particularly trying one for you because you snuck up on this buffalo.

01:41:35.000 You got it.

01:41:37.000 It was a good shot with your bow, but the buffalo was still alive. 0.99

01:41:41.000 They're so fucking tough and they're so big. 0.98

01:41:43.000 And, you know, there's a lot of things... 0.98

01:41:46.000 That I would have done different, but also I couldn't have done different.

01:41:50.000 Sometimes you have to do what happens in that moment and make a decision.

01:41:55.000 And for me, I didn't want to shoot a buffalo bedded down, bison bedded down, but some things went wrong during the filming of the camera guy was in the wrong place.

01:42:03.000 And if that bison got up and started walking off, we wouldn't be able to film it.

01:42:07.000 And so I made the decision to shoot it with my bow in that particular instance, and I had to live with that decision.

01:42:15.000 Yeah, I shot it where it would have been good, but the bow didn't penetrate hard enough.

01:42:22.000 The equipment was right.

01:42:24.000 Everything was right.

01:42:25.000 It was just one of those deals where a quarter inch left to right and maybe would have made a difference.

01:42:31.000 It hit the shoulder.

01:42:32.000 Just, yeah, the next day it was still alive.

01:42:35.000 And for me, I mean, there's guys that could maybe watch that episode and go, well, you're bow hunting and you shot it in the end with, if you haven't seen it, I'm giving away a spoiler alert.

01:42:44.000 But yeah, I ended up shooting it with a rifle the next day.

01:42:47.000 And for me, it wasn't about bow hunting or rifle hunting or being a purist in this form or following through because the natives who did that tactic would have only used primitive weaponry or whatever.

01:42:59.000 For me, in that moment, it was about...

01:43:02.000 Putting that bison down. 1.00

01:43:04.000 As hunters, we don't want to see an animal suffer as that or the other thing.

01:43:08.000 So it didn't really matter what I shot it with in the end.

01:43:11.000 I just wanted to do my job to make things right.

01:43:16.000 That had to be a hard feeling, too, to know that this animal's wounded and you have to go to sleep.

01:43:21.000 I didn't even sleep that night.

01:43:22.000 It was raining.

01:43:24.000 I think we got back to the tents at 1.30 in the morning later.

01:43:30.000 It'd been just dumping rain.

01:43:32.000 We lost the blood trail.

01:43:35.000 And I also didn't want to keep pushing it because at some point you think, okay, well, it's not smart to track at night.

01:43:40.000 The only reason we were tracking it at night was because the rain was coming.

01:43:44.000 And then it just, there was good blood, and then we lost the blood trail and decided to come back the next day.

01:43:50.000 And luckily things turned out, but when I came away from that trip, there was a lot of things that I was like, ugh.

01:44:01.000 I like to make things...

01:44:03.000 I don't necessarily need to show people that I'm pounding my chest and be the greatest.

01:44:08.000 I'll show my failures as well.

01:44:09.000 I'm not saying that that was a failure or whatever, but, you know, even in solo hunters or other things, there's a lot of episodes where I don't get anything.

01:44:15.000 There's a lot of hunting shows that won't show that, but for me...

01:44:17.000 It's real.

01:44:18.000 It's hunting.

01:44:19.000 And I've missed things with my bow.

01:44:21.000 I've missed things with my rifle.

01:44:23.000 I've messed up, but I keep doing it.

01:44:25.000 And I think if I just edited things how it's always perfect, then I'm just kind of lying to myself, really.

01:44:33.000 I think if there was very few hunting shows out there, maybe that would be acceptable, like, to try to make it, like, the most exciting version of hunting possible.

01:44:42.000 But I think it's really important to portray it for what it really is.

01:44:45.000 What it really is is a difficult pursuit, even for an expert hunter like yourself.

01:44:49.000 It doesn't always work.

01:44:50.000 No, things go wrong, and, you know, and then it also adds to the gravity of the situation.

01:44:54.000 You know, we come upon a bison and shoot it with a rifle, and the bison...

01:45:04.000 We're good to go. 0.73

01:45:17.000 And I said, yeah, that's the point.

01:45:19.000 Like, you go through the, you felt the emotions of a hunter.

01:45:22.000 I don't necessarily feel sad, but I talk about it in the end, I say that the path of a hunter is a humbling path, and it really is.

01:45:29.000 Like, in that moment, you watch that, and you go, boom, this bison just is now dead, and you go, whoa.

01:45:35.000 Yeah, there's a feeling of loss, right?

01:45:37.000 Right, and then there's also the feeling of, I'm thankful for this bison, and now it's providing me with all this meat, and that is what it is to be a hunter.

01:45:45.000 You go through a range of emotions, no matter how many times you've done it, that life begets life, and now this bison is no longer an animal, it is a source of meat, and I'm going to use that throughout the year.

01:45:59.000 That's the real big difference between someone who's been involved in the taking of the life, whether you're a farmer that kills your own cows or whether you're a hunter that goes out and hunts the meat.

01:46:08.000 There's a much deeper understanding of what you're actually eating.

01:46:13.000 I don't think it's necessarily healthy that we could just go to a supermarket and buy a steak.

01:46:18.000 No.

01:46:19.000 I think it's weird.

01:46:20.000 It just gives you a massive disconnect, and that's where all the self-righteousness from people wearing leather, eating meat, and getting angry at people for hunting, that's where it all comes from.

01:46:30.000 It's a sickness.

01:46:31.000 There's a disconnect, like a complete total disconnect from what you're doing by eating a hamburger. 0.99

01:46:38.000 You hired a supermarket hitman to go out there and kill those fucking animals and package it up so you can be completely insulated from the life-or-death struggle, and then you're getting upset at other people. 0.99

01:46:50.000 The idea of a meat-eating person who wears leather being upset at hunting is one of the great, bizarre hypocrisies of our culture. 0.99

01:47:00.000 Yeah, it doesn't really make sense.

01:47:02.000 And I can't...

01:47:03.000 For me, I've seen...

01:47:07.000 I have a respect for my food in a different way that someone, an animal, is now food is not an animal.

01:47:13.000 But for me, meat is always an animal.

01:47:15.000 It's always food.

01:47:16.000 I respect it in that way.

01:47:18.000 And when it becomes meat, then it becomes something different to me, but it's still an animal.

01:47:23.000 I think it's kind of a weird story, but we had a horse that...

01:47:29.000 We'd use to pack out things and whatever, and it ended up breaking its leg, and we had to shoot it.

01:47:36.000 And so I didn't want to do it because it's like you have this attachment to this animal.

01:47:42.000 And then my other guy didn't want to do it either, but one of the guys that hadn't used the horses, we talked to him and said, okay, you need to put this horse down.

01:47:51.000 He shot the horse.

01:47:52.000 And I still felt like, okay, this is like now we have a ditto.

01:47:58.000 And so I don't know why, but I cut the back stakes out and ate the horse.

01:48:03.000 This is like people are gonna be like, that is disgusting. 0.94

01:48:05.000 That is sick.

01:48:06.000 But for me, it was like, okay, well now it serves a utility, a purpose.

01:48:14.000 It's now food.

01:48:15.000 It's no longer wasted.

01:48:16.000 Yeah, otherwise you'd be wasting it.

01:48:18.000 Something's going to eat it.

01:48:19.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:48:19.000 Bacteria's going to eat it, or predators, or rodents, or scavengers.

01:48:24.000 Someone's going to eat it.

01:48:25.000 Yeah.

01:48:26.000 Why shouldn't you?

01:48:26.000 And I've had horse before.

01:48:28.000 I had it in Montreal.

01:48:29.000 It was a place called Joe Beef.

01:48:30.000 I've had horse tartare, or I've had raw horse, and I've had a horse loin, so they cooked like the back strap, and they cooked it up like a steak.

01:48:40.000 It was delicious.

01:48:41.000 Yeah.

01:48:42.000 It's really lean.

01:48:43.000 You know, in the end, it's meat.

01:48:46.000 In the end, it's meat.

01:48:47.000 But, I mean, obviously, you're like, he ate his pet! 1.00

01:48:50.000 What a sicko! 0.98

01:48:51.000 But for me, it was more out of a respect thing. 0.99

01:48:54.000 Like, okay, now it's the circle of life.

01:48:57.000 Some people are not going to understand that.

01:48:59.000 No.

01:48:59.000 It's weird.

01:49:00.000 But that's okay.

01:49:01.000 You can't help everybody understand things that make sense to me.

01:49:05.000 To me, it makes sense because it's good meat.

01:49:07.000 It's healthy for you.

01:49:08.000 It's very common to eat in Europe.

01:49:12.000 One of the weird things is I believe a lot of the horse they buy in Canada comes from the United States, but we can't sell it in the United States.

01:49:21.000 Yeah.

01:49:22.000 I had it in Iceland, and those horses are...

01:49:25.000 That was the only other time I'd had it.

01:49:26.000 I couldn't remember part of the reason.

01:49:28.000 I was like, you can't actually get a horse here.

01:49:31.000 I might as well...

01:49:31.000 Try it?

01:49:32.000 Yeah.

01:49:33.000 Yeah, we served horse rectum on Fear Factor once.

01:49:37.000 Really?

01:49:38.000 Yeah.

01:49:38.000 People were so angry.

01:49:40.000 I believe it was boiled.

01:49:41.000 It was very chewy and disgusting.

01:49:43.000 But people were so angry.

01:49:46.000 That it was a horse.

01:49:46.000 Yeah.

01:49:47.000 Well, it's a horse to a lot of folks.

01:49:49.000 It's like if we started serving dog tongue. 1.00

01:49:51.000 People will be like, you assholes, you're serving dog tongue? 1.00

01:49:55.000 That's our pet! 1.00

01:49:56.000 So for a lot of people, their horse is even more intimately involved in their life than a dog, because they ride it.

01:50:03.000 Yeah.

01:50:03.000 Oh, and that horse worked.

01:50:05.000 It carried elk for me.

01:50:09.000 It was on the hunt, which is kind of a weird...

01:50:11.000 I mean, maybe it was...

01:50:13.000 It is weird.

01:50:14.000 Yeah.

01:50:14.000 It's a weird philosophy.

01:50:16.000 I mean, it's an animal that you associate with.

01:50:18.000 It's weird, but I think what you did is the right thing.

01:50:21.000 I was like, I didn't really know, but I felt weird about it.

01:50:25.000 But then when we cooked it up and it became...

01:50:27.000 It was like, okay, yeah, it's...

01:50:30.000 I don't know.

01:50:30.000 I'm glad I did it.

01:50:32.000 I don't know if I'd do it again, but I thought in that moment, it felt right.

01:50:35.000 How much of the meat did you take off the horse?

01:50:37.000 The back strap.

01:50:38.000 That's it?

01:50:39.000 Yeah, because, well, it was pretty, yeah.

01:50:42.000 And I thought, well, there was other animals out there that were also going to eat it, but it would have been impossible to get the rest out.

01:50:50.000 When you were in a bear area?

01:50:52.000 Were there bears there?

01:50:53.000 Yeah, the bears ate it.

01:50:54.000 It was gone.

01:50:55.000 Really?

01:50:56.000 Yeah, I went back.

01:50:57.000 How long?

01:50:59.000 I went back like three days later.

01:51:01.000 It was pretty much toast.

01:51:02.000 Wow!

01:51:03.000 Yeah.

01:51:03.000 What kind of bears?

01:51:04.000 Black bears or goose?

01:51:06.000 Eagles, they eat a lot.

01:51:09.000 There's probably, when I got there, there was a lot of eagles on it.

01:51:13.000 That's crazy.

01:51:14.000 Eagles eat a lot.

01:51:16.000 I'm sure.

01:51:17.000 I don't know how, yeah, there's maybe a combination of animals, coyotes, eagles.

01:51:21.000 Bears, all kinds of things.

01:51:23.000 It's amazing how quick nature can eat something like that.

01:51:26.000 A horse, you know, what is a horse?

01:51:28.000 A thousand pounds or something, probably even more. 0.76

01:51:30.000 Big-ass animal, gets devoured in a few days. 0.66

01:51:34.000 A few days, it's gone. 0.53

01:51:35.000 Yeah, that's why people talk about, like, finding dead animals in the woods.

01:51:39.000 Like, you rarely, you find bones here and there.

01:51:41.000 Yeah, you don't find whole animals.

01:51:43.000 Very rarely.

01:51:44.000 Try finding a dead mountain lion.

01:51:46.000 Good luck.

01:51:47.000 You can live your whole life.

01:51:48.000 Never see a dead mountain lion.

01:51:50.000 I've only found one.

01:51:51.000 Really?

01:51:51.000 A dead one?

01:51:52.000 Yep.

01:51:52.000 Where was it?

01:51:53.000 In a river.

01:51:54.000 Ooh, it drowned?

01:51:55.000 Yep.

01:51:55.000 Wow.

01:51:55.000 I think high water.

01:51:57.000 Either trade swimming across or something.

01:51:59.000 Have you ever seen that picture of a mountain lion and a mountain goat that apparently got into a scrap and they both fell off the mountain onto a highway and they were both dead?

01:52:11.000 Was it a sheep or a goat?

01:52:13.000 Maybe it was a bighorn sheep.

01:52:15.000 Now that I'm thinking about it, I think you're right.

01:52:17.000 I did see a picture or something like that.

01:52:19.000 There's a whole series of pictures.

01:52:20.000 Is there pictures of them actually fighting?

01:52:22.000 No, they're dead.

01:52:23.000 They're both dead. 0.58

01:52:24.000 There they are. 0.69

01:52:24.000 Bam! 0.69

01:52:25.000 They're both dead on the road.

01:52:28.000 It's a crazy picture.

01:52:29.000 I think that thing to the left is one of the horns.

01:52:31.000 Yeah, because when they fall along the ways, air pressure blows through and pops the horn off.

01:52:39.000 Really?

01:52:39.000 Look at the top.

01:52:41.000 Go up a little bit.

01:52:43.000 Look at that horn where it came off.

01:52:45.000 This weird bloody stump where the horn popped off.

01:52:50.000 I wonder if it fell off a cliff or got hit by a snowplow.

01:52:52.000 Well, go down, too.

01:52:53.000 No, it died off the cliff.

01:52:54.000 Look, he's got a mouthful of fur. 1.00

01:52:56.000 He died with a mouthful of fur, that fucking monster. 1.00

01:53:00.000 Wow. 1.00

01:53:01.000 Look at it, he's got it in his mouth as he's dead.

01:53:04.000 That's crazy. 1.00

01:53:05.000 Oh, what a weird broken legs and shit. 1.00

01:53:09.000 Look at the fall. 1.00

01:53:11.000 Fuuuuck. 0.92

01:53:14.000 Hmm, that's crazy. 0.97

01:53:15.000 Imagine stumbling upon that.

01:53:17.000 Yeah.

01:53:18.000 That is a cool thing to see.

01:53:20.000 Is that in Canada?

01:53:21.000 I don't know.

01:53:24.000 I don't know.

01:53:24.000 I don't know, but it's a classic.

01:53:28.000 Glacier National Park.

01:53:30.000 Where's that at?

01:53:31.000 That's in Montana.

01:53:33.000 Wow, that's amazing.

01:53:35.000 That's so cool.

01:53:36.000 Stumbling upon things like that, just seeing the...

01:53:40.000 Well, you especially, having seen wolves actually take out an elk.

01:53:44.000 Oh, yeah.

01:53:44.000 It's pretty cool.

01:53:45.000 So what different animals do you emulate?

01:53:47.000 I know this week is wolf, right?

01:53:48.000 Yeah, so this week, so the first episode we did the alligator.

01:53:52.000 It's trying to grab a pig. 0.99

01:53:54.000 How did that work?

01:53:55.000 I didn't have seen that one.

01:53:56.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, that's probably what I've heard.

01:53:58.000 So the first episode, I emulated the alligator, learned from the alligator, and my goal was to, well, to learn from the alligator, but I was trying to grab a wild boar barehanded.

01:54:11.000 And you gotta watch that episode.

01:54:13.000 It's pretty cool. 0.98

01:54:14.000 That sounds like the most ridiculous idea ever. 0.97

01:54:16.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:54:17.000 What about the tusks?

01:54:18.000 You worry about it reaching back and biting you?

01:54:20.000 I wasn't until I was about four feet away from one.

01:54:24.000 Can you spoiler alert?

01:54:26.000 Can you tell me?

01:54:27.000 No, because that's going to drive people to the site.

01:54:29.000 ApexPredator.tv.

01:54:30.000 ApexPredator.tv.

01:54:31.000 If they go there, they can actually stream the entire season, right?

01:54:35.000 Yep.

01:54:35.000 Ones that haven't aired yet?

01:54:36.000 No, so what happens, if you buy the season, the day they air, when they air live on TV, you also get access to it online.

01:54:46.000 Oh, okay, cool.

01:54:47.000 So every Thursday at 8 p.m.

01:54:50.000 East, or I think it's right after the show, so 8.30 p.m.

01:54:55.000 East, boom.

01:54:56.000 Play the trailer, Jamie.

01:54:58.000 Let's play the trailer.

01:55:03.000 In the wild, every animal has adapted to survive.

01:55:07.000 As humans, we have learned from those adaptations to become better hunters.

01:55:13.000 We're the planet's top predators, but we didn't get here alone.

01:55:18.000 Nature itself was our teacher.

01:55:25.000 I'm Remy Wong.

01:55:26.000 I'm going to study animals in their environments, learn what makes them successful, and challenge myself with nearly impossible hunts, giving me raw skills only obtained from experience.

01:55:39.000 I plan to immerse myself in nature and hunt like an animal. 0.99

01:55:53.000 That's a cool fucking trailer, dude. 0.99

01:55:55.000 Yeah, that's pretty cool. 0.99

01:55:57.000 Those guys at 0.0, they know what they're doing, man.

01:56:01.000 So good.

01:56:01.000 The thing about it is, when we started doing it, I mean, I hate corny things.

01:56:06.000 And every time we'd think of an episode, we'd go, this could either be the corniest, dumbest thing ever, or it could be amazing.

01:56:13.000 And the fact that we can take something and be real about it, not have to create drama and other things, and...

01:56:20.000 Make it educational, where you can still learn, and do something that nobody else has really tried, and make it not ridiculous, to me, is a win.

01:56:29.000 Well, also, doing it on the Sportsman's channel, you could actually do the whole show.

01:56:34.000 Right.

01:56:34.000 You could actually do it the way you want to do it.

01:56:37.000 They're not going to fuck with you, where if you were doing this on, you know, fill in the blank, and name another cable channel, they would give you a hard time. 0.96

01:56:44.000 They're not used to hunting. 1.00

01:56:45.000 They would try to turn it into some bullshit reality show with predetermined endings. 1.00

01:56:49.000 Exactly. 0.99

01:56:49.000 They would try to predetermine beats in it to make sure they kept people... 0.99

01:56:53.000 For that first alligator episode, I got charged by a pig when I was moving locations and had to grab it and tackle it.

01:57:04.000 Really?

01:57:05.000 Yeah, because I was just bare-handing everything.

01:57:07.000 And I left it out of the episode because...

01:57:11.000 For two reasons.

01:57:12.000 One, Dan was filming and he was on the other side of a bush, so he didn't actually get that charge on film.

01:57:18.000 But the other part was, I caught it in a way that wasn't about the learning aspect of The alligator.

01:57:29.000 Right.

01:57:30.000 So it was just an incidental.

01:57:31.000 It just happened.

01:57:32.000 I just got charged. 0.99

01:57:33.000 Tackled this pig. 0.96

01:57:34.000 How did you tackle it? 0.97

01:57:35.000 I had grabbed it behind the neck and then threw it down.

01:57:38.000 How big was the pig?

01:57:39.000 Wasn't very big.

01:57:40.000 It was luckily...

01:57:42.000 100 pounds?

01:57:43.000 50 pounds?

01:57:44.000 Yeah.

01:57:44.000 50?

01:57:46.000 I don't even know.

01:57:48.000 75 pounds.

01:57:48.000 50 pounds.

01:57:49.000 Yeah.

01:57:50.000 Small pig.

01:57:50.000 In the middle.

01:57:50.000 Okay.

01:57:51.000 Yeah.

01:57:51.000 Somewhere in there.

01:57:51.000 So it charged you?

01:57:52.000 Yeah.

01:57:53.000 Mouth open.

01:57:54.000 And the thing was ornery.

01:57:55.000 Yeah.

01:57:55.000 We put up a...

01:57:56.000 You can see the pig.

01:57:57.000 We put it on our...

01:57:59.000 YouTube channel.

01:58:00.000 Oh, you can see the video?

01:58:01.000 Yeah, I put that on the YouTube channel. 0.99

01:58:03.000 Pull that shit up. 0.98

01:58:05.000 What's the YouTube channel? 1.00

01:58:07.000 Apex Predator?

01:58:08.000 Or Remy Warren?

01:58:09.000 I hope so.

01:58:09.000 Yeah, Apex Predator.tv.

01:58:11.000 Apex Predator.tv.

01:58:12.000 Or, I don't know.

01:58:14.000 Or on our...

01:58:15.000 Yeah, maybe on our social media there's a link to it. 0.99

01:58:17.000 And the pig... 0.96

01:58:19.000 So, why did it charge you?

01:58:22.000 They're just...

01:58:22.000 I don't know.

01:58:23.000 They just had a bad temperament. 1.00

01:58:24.000 They're just fuckers. 1.00

01:58:25.000 I think that pig charged me... 1.00

01:58:27.000 I think that pig had been caught by a human before.

01:58:30.000 Like dogs recently.

01:58:31.000 I think he had been let go again.

01:58:33.000 Oh, by dogs?

01:58:34.000 Yeah, because it looked like it had been...

01:58:36.000 So I think it was just already pissed off. 1.00

01:58:38.000 Enough is enough, you fucks. 1.00

01:58:40.000 That's what he was like. 1.00

01:58:41.000 Yeah, but, you know, I think pigs will do that from time to time. 0.99

01:58:44.000 They just kind of will charge if they feel like...

01:58:46.000 It was funny because...

01:58:50.000 That's where we recreate something as humans.

01:58:52.000 Dan Doty.

01:58:52.000 There's Dan.

01:58:54.000 This is a recreation?

01:58:56.000 Oh, you grab a wild boar, that's it.

01:58:59.000 Everything's a boar, by the way, even if it's a female. 0.99

01:59:01.000 Ever notice that?

01:59:02.000 You can't get wild pig at the store, but you can get wild boar.

01:59:06.000 It's a weird way, you know? 1.00

01:59:08.000 It's kind of stupid. 1.00

01:59:10.000 Yeah, it's just a little guy, luckily. 1.00

01:59:16.000 That thing charged you.

01:59:19.000 It was funny, I was laying in a wall, and just straight up, it just looks at me, and there was no lag time, just bam, on me like that.

01:59:25.000 Wow. 1.00

01:59:25.000 Yeah, that's probably a pig that had been fucked with. 1.00

01:59:28.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:59:28.000 So what'd you guys wind up doing with him? 0.99

01:59:30.000 I let it go, but I tied it up with, I had some P-cord, because the whole goal was I was trying to grab a boar.

01:59:37.000 I wasn't going to kill one. 0.96

01:59:39.000 And, or a pig, it could have been a sow, too. 0.95

01:59:42.000 Makes me now realize that strolling around in the swamp with just my head above water is a freaking dangerous thing, because this thing instantly charged me.

01:59:50.000 I mean, there wasn't even a split second.

01:59:52.000 It wheeled around and came right at me.

01:59:56.000 So, what did it try to bite?

01:59:58.000 Did it try to bite your leg?

01:59:59.000 Yeah, anything.

02:00:00.000 It just had mouth open coming.

02:00:02.000 And you just jumped down on the back of its neck.

02:00:04.000 Yeah, on the back of its neck. 1.00

02:00:06.000 Because a pig can't bite its own butt. 1.00

02:00:09.000 So if you get both of its back legs, it can't bite you. 0.99

02:00:12.000 But it's kind of hard to get both their back legs.

02:00:14.000 I ended up just kind of getting its back legs...

02:00:17.000 Getting behind it, and then throwing it down, putting a knee on it, and then hog-tying it. 0.98

02:00:23.000 Wow, when you let him go, and now he really fucking hates people. 0.97

02:00:26.000 Yeah, well, we let it go. 0.99

02:00:27.000 And it was...

02:00:29.000 We ended up having to go to...

02:00:31.000 There was luckily, there was like a tree stand nearby.

02:00:34.000 And so Dan gets up in the tree stand, and I'm like, I'll untie it.

02:00:38.000 So I untie it, and the thing kept hanging around the tree going.

02:00:41.000 I had to climb up the tree stand, and we let it go.

02:00:43.000 Wow. 1.00

02:00:43.000 What a gangster little pig. 1.00

02:00:45.000 Yeah, it was ornery. 1.00

02:00:46.000 And then he just strolls off.

02:00:47.000 Nothing's wrong.

02:00:48.000 Like, I showed those guys.

02:00:50.000 Wow.

02:00:51.000 Yeah, that's pretty cool.

02:00:52.000 Have you ever been charged by anything else in the wild?

02:00:56.000 Not seriously, no.

02:00:58.000 I mean, nothing that, um, nothing life-threatening, really, I would say.

02:01:05.000 I mean, I've had elk, like, wounded elk come pretty close to getting at me, but that was just because somebody messed up, and it wasn't, uh, it was pretty weird.

02:01:16.000 They were just trying to figure out a way to get out of there.

02:01:18.000 Yeah.

02:01:19.000 If they have to put their head down and run at you at antlers first.

02:01:23.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:01:23.000 So it wasn't like a chart.

02:01:25.000 It was different.

02:01:26.000 Yeah, antlers. 1.00

02:01:27.000 The fucking antlers on elk are insane. 1.00

02:01:29.000 How nature-engineered an elk. 1.00

02:01:32.000 They fall off and grow back every year.

02:01:34.000 Yeah.

02:01:35.000 Really quick.

02:01:35.000 Imagine if you could harness that growing potential.

02:01:38.000 I think that's why they put Staghorn in a lot of performance-enhancing things, because the magic powers...

02:01:45.000 Well, Velvet Deer Antler Spray is a human growth hormone enhancer.

02:01:51.000 Right.

02:01:51.000 I don't know if it works, but I know that a lot of people were getting into that.

02:01:55.000 Like, a lot of football players were taking that stuff.

02:01:57.000 Supposedly, now you can't even...

02:01:58.000 It's illegal to use in the NFL. Not illegal to use, but, like, in the NFL, right?

02:02:03.000 Really?

02:02:03.000 Well, I was...

02:02:04.000 Because it's so good?

02:02:06.000 Yeah, I think so.

02:02:08.000 I was guiding a guy that plays in the NFL a few weeks ago, a month ago, and he was like, yeah, we can't use the staghorn.

02:02:17.000 That's hilarious, since they're all on steroids. 0.97

02:02:20.000 They have a weird...

02:02:22.000 The whole relationship that football has to steroids is...

02:02:27.000 It's similar in a way to what the UFC has to steroids, but the UFC is more aggressively pursuing it, I think.

02:02:33.000 The NFL... If you look at football players from the 1960s, and you look at football players from 2015, you're like, okay, what the fuck happened? 0.97

02:02:43.000 What happened? 0.89

02:02:44.000 Did humans evolve?

02:02:46.000 Did humans become much larger?

02:02:48.000 Like, what happened?

02:02:50.000 Well, there's certainly, like, advancements in strength and conditioning programs, understanding recovery and how to enhance growth and all these different things, but there's also steroids. 0.81

02:03:01.000 There's just no goddamn doubt about it.

02:03:03.000 Supplements do make a big difference. 0.96

02:03:06.000 Oh, yeah.

02:03:06.000 You know, anything, even vitamins and things.

02:03:09.000 Oh, yeah, there you go.

02:03:10.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:03:11.000 The size of these fuckers. 1.00

02:03:12.000 They used to be 190, now they're 335. Oh my god. 1.00

02:03:16.000 Different game though, as well.

02:03:18.000 Oh yeah, definitely.

02:03:19.000 I mean, the guy on the 1927 is not wearing a helmet.

02:03:25.000 64 or 67, the guy was still 245. Yeah. 0.90

02:03:28.000 In 1967, that guy was a natural to...

02:03:31.000 Alan Page.

02:03:32.000 A natural 245. Big dude.

02:03:35.000 Yeah, that's a big fucker. 1.00

02:03:36.000 And that's a real 245, whereas this guy... 0.99

02:03:41.000 From 2006, 335 pounds.

02:03:45.000 These guys are in phenomenal shape, though.

02:03:48.000 The guy that I took out, his name is Justin Tuck.

02:03:53.000 He's a big dude, but just strong.

02:03:56.000 Oh, yeah.

02:03:57.000 Naturally, I wouldn't want to stand in a line against the guy. 0.64

02:04:00.000 He'd rip you in half. 0.99

02:04:02.000 It's a ridiculous job. 1.00

02:04:03.000 It's crazy. 0.98

02:04:03.000 Running at each other, giant dudes running at each other, colliding. 0.98

02:04:07.000 He explained it.

02:04:07.000 He's like, yeah, it's just like getting in a car wreck daily for your job, just running into another guy that's...

02:04:13.000 Just as big.

02:04:14.000 Well, they're starting to realize now the overall effect of all these car wrecks and it's not pretty and it's interesting because there's this class-action lawsuit against the NFL and there's all these different people that are saying They're gonna start suing and all these different players that played for years and years and years that are now debilitated They're just their brains have come to toast.

02:04:32.000 Did you see the real sports piece on it?

02:04:34.000 No, I didn't.

02:04:35.000 It's scary.

02:04:36.000 It's really terrifying because They have all sorts of very predictable patterns that these guys follow when they have traumatic brain injury.

02:04:46.000 Impulsiveness, violent outbursts, memory loss, and they essentially become a totally different human being.

02:04:53.000 And it's all because their brain is...

02:04:55.000 And the damage takes really 10 years to fully manifest.

02:05:00.000 So if they get a massive concussion, the real damage is like 10 years down the line.

02:05:04.000 It's insidious.

02:05:07.000 Yeah, I imagine that that probably goes for any full contact sport.

02:05:11.000 MMA is a real issue.

02:05:12.000 It's a real issue in MMA for sure.

02:05:14.000 Guys are starting to talk about it now, about how to mitigate it by not sparring as hard, trying to...

02:05:22.000 Spar less and concentrate more on strength conditioning drills or drill skill skill based drills for fighting because in the old days and Some some camps still do it this way.

02:05:32.000 They would just go to war three four days a week They would just glove up and beat the fuck out of each other and that's how they got better and that's how they learned and there's there's some There's some benefit to that.

02:05:43.000 It becomes normal to you.

02:05:45.000 Much like what we were talking about earlier about the mental aspect of just being tough enough to deal with certain situations and not freaking out and not being overwhelmed by Your thoughts, like, oh my god,

02:06:00.000 I'm suffering.

02:06:01.000 Yeah.

02:06:02.000 That's similar in martial arts, too.

02:06:04.000 Like, one of the sayings in jujitsu is always, you gotta get comfortable with being uncomfortable.

02:06:10.000 Because jujitsu, like, sometimes people panic tap.

02:06:13.000 They just get in a bad situation, it just hurts, and they just can't take it, and they tap.

02:06:17.000 But they really don't have to tap.

02:06:18.000 It's just pain.

02:06:19.000 Pain.

02:06:19.000 You're not in danger of getting an arm broken.

02:06:21.000 You're not in danger of being put to sleep.

02:06:24.000 You're just in pain.

02:06:26.000 So you've got to just deal with that and just recognize it's only a sensation.

02:06:30.000 I imagine, too, once you get to a certain threshold, you know, oh, I handled this last time and nothing bad happened.

02:06:37.000 Yep.

02:06:37.000 And then you can keep moving on.

02:06:39.000 You can, but there's also borders.

02:06:42.000 There's like borders when it comes to joints.

02:06:45.000 There's some things you shouldn't fight off because like you have to realize as you get older especially, you realize, okay, the reason why I don't want to tap here is because of my ego. 0.98

02:06:54.000 But if I do tap, then I don't have to go to the hospital and get surgery on my fucking elbow.

02:07:00.000 But if I don't tap, I'm going to get my elbow ripped apart and then they're gonna have to reconstruct it because I've already done this before. 0.97

02:07:07.000 Sorry, I'll just tap.

02:07:08.000 Alright, and then you're fine.

02:07:09.000 And then you're good.

02:07:10.000 That's the cool thing about jiu-jitsu is you can just tap.

02:07:12.000 Most of the time, that's the case.

02:07:14.000 There's occasional injuries, but there'll be occasional injuries if you do any kind of sport where you're trying really hard to do something.

02:07:20.000 Even tag football.

02:07:22.000 There's hardcore injuries with tag football.

02:07:25.000 I read somewhere that most...

02:07:27.000 The highest rate of sports injuries is from running.

02:07:31.000 Soccer is a big one.

02:07:32.000 ACLs, ACL reconstructions.

02:07:34.000 For soccer, it's like one of the biggest methods or reasons why people tear their ligaments in their knees.

02:07:40.000 They like throw a kick, they're planted, and they kick, and their foot doesn't move, and their body torques, and it's taut!

02:07:48.000 Yeah, those guys are, that's one of those things, they're in pretty good shape.

02:07:53.000 I mean, because you're running, it's a sport we're running all the time.

02:07:55.000 What I started doing was, I got like a soccer, I'm not very good at soccer or whatever, but running up and down hills with a soccer ball, like juggling it, because then you get, you like got to control the ball, so on your descent and things, you're actually working a lot harder.

02:08:09.000 So that's what you do for training?

02:08:10.000 Yeah, I just started that.

02:08:11.000 So even on the descent you have to control the ball?

02:08:14.000 Yeah.

02:08:14.000 Do you have to run in front of it or something?

02:08:15.000 Yeah, or just like try to control it, like slow it down.

02:08:18.000 Huh.

02:08:18.000 Because then otherwise you're chasing a ball.

02:08:20.000 Even though you hunt like, you probably hunt like what, 300 days a year or something crazy like that?

02:08:24.000 Yeah, it's been a little bit less now that I've been doing more TV things and other stuff, but yeah.

02:08:29.000 And even though all that, you still have to train for hunting?

02:08:32.000 Yeah, I just, yeah.

02:08:35.000 That's a big one that I think there's a massive misconception in the public's eye.

02:08:38.000 They think of hunters as being these fat guys who drink beer and go out and shoot animals and laugh about it.

02:08:43.000 They don't realize, like, there's guys like you, like, you were talking about this the last time you were here, you have this insane VO2 max when they studied you for that Predator show, for your Predator show, I should say.

02:08:54.000 They tested your VO2 max, and you're in some elite endurance athlete territory.

02:09:00.000 Yeah, and that is crazy because it's essentially...

02:09:05.000 I haven't trained for that, but it's just by hunting I am training for that.

02:09:10.000 It is an endurance sport.

02:09:11.000 You're out there every day grinding up and down mountains and...

02:09:16.000 Working hard.

02:09:17.000 It's a hard...

02:09:18.000 Now, I mean, if you're sitting in a tree stand all the time, it's different.

02:09:22.000 Right.

02:09:22.000 Hunting to me is something different than maybe someone else hunting.

02:09:26.000 Well, that was one of the fun episodes of Solo Hunter was you up in a tree stand hunting deer and you're like, this sucks. 0.97

02:09:31.000 I hate this.

02:09:32.000 I'm way too ADD for this.

02:09:34.000 Well, that's...

02:09:35.000 With doing the Apex Predator, I've realized my biggest mental thing is patience.

02:09:40.000 I have happy...

02:09:42.000 I can...

02:09:43.000 I'll hike all day every day for...

02:09:45.000 Years.

02:09:46.000 Doesn't matter.

02:09:46.000 I love it.

02:09:47.000 But tell me to sit down for an hour.

02:09:49.000 Like, I go crazy.

02:09:51.000 I would not do well in prison.

02:09:54.000 You probably just get, you're probably designed, like, all these years of pursuing.

02:10:00.000 Yeah.

02:10:00.000 You know, spot and stock hunting and going after elk especially.

02:10:04.000 That's your specialty, right?

02:10:05.000 Yeah.

02:10:05.000 Is elk?

02:10:06.000 Elk.

02:10:06.000 It's so much mountain climbing.

02:10:08.000 It's so much hiking up hills.

02:10:09.000 People don't realize how difficult that is. 0.92

02:10:12.000 If you don't do it, especially if you don't do it with a rifle or a pack on your back, you don't realize how goddamn heavy everything is. 0.93

02:10:18.000 Your lungs would give out. 0.90

02:10:20.000 Exactly.

02:10:21.000 My legs were fine. 0.99

02:10:23.000 The first trip I ever did to Montana, there was all this up and down and that real slippery shit. 0.98

02:10:29.000 My legs were fine. 1.00

02:10:30.000 But my lungs were like, fuck, dude. 1.00

02:10:32.000 You could have prepared us for this. 1.00

02:10:34.000 I was like, I didn't know.

02:10:35.000 I had no idea it would be this hard.

02:10:38.000 Oh, yeah.

02:10:38.000 I mean, you're working hard in elevation with weight on your back all the time.

02:10:42.000 And for me, my size...

02:10:44.000 I'm not a real big guy, but I can carry a lot of weight for a long ways.

02:10:49.000 I mean, I would say body...

02:10:51.000 It would be kind of fun to do a comparison body weight to body weight and carry something up the mountain.

02:10:56.000 Because that's what I do all the time.

02:10:58.000 I carry animals out for...

02:11:01.000 I mean, my job is to...

02:11:03.000 Pretty much a human mule.

02:11:04.000 You must develop like really great core stability, too, because it's all about balancing that heavy weight on your back and then walking with it.

02:11:13.000 You have to stay tight.

02:11:15.000 You can't slouch over.

02:11:17.000 Just getting used to the weight.

02:11:20.000 Like you say, you're used to that kind of pressure and pain and you realize, well, let's get through it.

02:11:25.000 Human beings are very adaptable.

02:11:28.000 It's a matter of going on and on and on.

02:11:30.000 I have friends that don't work out, and one of the most hilarious things ever was taking one of my friends who was a comedian who doesn't work out to the gym and trying to put him through a workout, just a fairly easy workout, and watching him just turn blue and gray and look like he was dying and heaving and coughing and hanging on to the...

02:11:50.000 The recovery time he needed in between sets was hilarious.

02:11:53.000 It's like, you realize, like, this guy just, here's what, this is what a body looks like when it's never been pushed.

02:11:58.000 Yeah.

02:11:59.000 You've allowed it to live for 35 years on booze and shitty food, and then you take him to the gym. 0.71

02:12:04.000 I want to get in shape. 0.57

02:12:05.000 Well, come on, I'll bring you to the gym.

02:12:07.000 I'll just put you through, don't kill me, I'll put you through just a normal, marginal workout.

02:12:11.000 Yeah.

02:12:11.000 Nothing crazy.

02:12:12.000 No hill sprints, you know, no cleaning jerks, no deadlifts, nothing nutty.

02:12:17.000 I just want to get you doing some push-ups, bear crawls, a couple chin-ups, and just see the body reacting.

02:12:26.000 But if he had just done it, like, there's nothing exceptional about a person's body who can do push-ups and chin-ups.

02:12:31.000 It's normal.

02:12:32.000 It's normal stuff.

02:12:32.000 You just have to do it.

02:12:33.000 But if you did it, just do one You know, do one set a day.

02:12:39.000 How many can you do?

02:12:40.000 Can you do five?

02:12:41.000 Okay, do five today.

02:12:43.000 Tomorrow, try to do five again.

02:12:44.000 And let's do this for a week.

02:12:46.000 Just do that for a week.

02:12:47.000 And then at the end of the week, let's work it up to six.

02:12:49.000 Let's get crazy.

02:12:50.000 Let's try to do six today.

02:12:51.000 And if you just do that for six months, guess what?

02:12:53.000 You can do 20 chin-ups.

02:12:54.000 It doesn't seem like it works that way, but it really does.

02:12:57.000 You just got to put in the numbers.

02:13:00.000 And with a guy like you, you're putting in the numbers for your hunting.

02:13:04.000 You know, you're always, that's a part of your normal life. 1.00

02:13:06.000 Like, every time I go hiking with Rinella, I just laugh, that fucking mountain goat. 0.99

02:13:10.000 I can't keep up with him. 0.99

02:13:11.000 And, you know, he's just doing it every day.

02:13:15.000 He doesn't get tired.

02:13:16.000 Like, you'll be heaving and hoving, no matter how good a shape you think you are.

02:13:20.000 The only thing that gets you prepared for doing that is doing that.

02:13:23.000 Yeah, that's exactly it.

02:13:25.000 Because I've taken out and hunted with a few professional athletes.

02:13:29.000 These guys are, Human specimens of the highest degree like they Physically and then they try hiking with me and Absolutely, they just don't get it that is like no.

02:13:41.000 I trained for this is what I do Right, he'll fit or whatever, right?

02:13:44.000 You put me in if I'm gonna go bench press like you bench press and this is not gonna happen But we're gonna have you pack on my back and I'll just hike forever.

02:13:51.000 That's a good way of putting it.

02:13:52.000 He'll fit Yeah, you're fit for what you do What do you use for a pack?

02:13:57.000 What is your equipment when you pack out meat?

02:13:59.000 What kind of pack do you use?

02:14:00.000 I use either an internal frame or external frame.

02:14:03.000 What company do you use?

02:14:05.000 I just started using a Kefaru pack.

02:14:07.000 It's pretty good.

02:14:09.000 I actually used one a long time ago when they first started.

02:14:11.000 How do you say Kefaru?

02:14:12.000 Kefaru.

02:14:13.000 How do you spell that?

02:14:14.000 K-I-A-F-R. A-R-U. Kefaru. 1.00

02:14:20.000 It looks like Kefaru.

02:14:22.000 It's got like a little rhino symbol.

02:14:26.000 I either use that or for an external frame.

02:14:28.000 I've been using the Outdoorsman one.

02:14:32.000 Yeah, Outdoorsman.

02:14:33.000 Outdoorsmans.com.

02:14:35.000 Yeah, that's what Ronella uses. 1.00

02:14:36.000 And so they've designed these packs...

02:14:41.000 Primarily for guys like you that are going to do what you did in Alaska, where you're going to walk hours and hours and hours with giant slabs of meat on your back.

02:14:50.000 And that's special gear for a special task, because it puts the weight on your...

02:14:56.000 On your hips and your syncs, I guess, yes, right above your tailbone there.

02:15:01.000 Because you don't want the weight, you know, you want it above your hips so you've got full mobility.

02:15:05.000 You can move, but kind of distribute the weight through the frame to your hips.

02:15:11.000 And, yeah, you can put some serious weight in some of these packs and go.

02:15:15.000 I mean, no joke, I've packed out a whole elk myself in one trip before.

02:15:20.000 One trip?

02:15:21.000 Yeah.

02:15:22.000 I got a picture on my Instagram of this one, this dude.

02:15:26.000 We took every piece of meat.

02:15:28.000 Ribs, everything boned out.

02:15:30.000 And I've got a pack loaded with meat, and then I'm dragging two quarters behind up this little hill.

02:15:36.000 It's pretty cool.

02:15:37.000 And the guy's looking at me going, Huh.

02:15:39.000 I didn't think you were much when I showed up, but yeah, you're doing it.

02:15:42.000 Good job.

02:15:43.000 Good on you.

02:15:43.000 So that's if you're, you know, you're only going to go a short distance.

02:15:47.000 Yeah, it was like a mile and a half. 1.00

02:15:48.000 So you just said, fuck it, let's just do it all in one job. 0.99

02:15:50.000 Yeah, I didn't want to go back. 1.00

02:15:50.000 Maybe it was two miles. 1.00

02:15:51.000 It was uphill for, I would say, half a mile, something like that.

02:15:55.000 And then the rest was downhill. 1.00

02:15:57.000 So I figured, well, shit, I'd just get home. 1.00

02:15:59.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:15:59.000 When you did that Alaska trip, like, how long did it take you to recover? 0.98

02:16:02.000 There's you, dragging it right there.

02:16:04.000 That's a whole elk? 0.67

02:16:06.000 Basically?

02:16:07.000 Basically, yeah.

02:16:08.000 I might have, when I took that picture, I might have had some of it out at the top already.

02:16:12.000 I can't remember.

02:16:13.000 Yep. 0.99

02:16:13.000 That's a lot of fucking weight. 0.99

02:16:14.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:16:15.000 Like, how long did it take you to recover from that, that, uh, Alaska trip?

02:16:21.000 Uh...

02:16:22.000 I mean, I recover pretty quick.

02:16:25.000 During the days, I mean, when I sit down, I recover.

02:16:28.000 I mean, I guess afterwards, me and my brother gorged like two bears on a fresh kill.

02:16:35.000 We got back to Kodiak, and we ate at this pizza place.

02:16:39.000 It was probably the best meal I'd ever eaten in my life.

02:16:41.000 I don't know, I was just so hungry or what.

02:16:42.000 Pizza?

02:16:43.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:16:44.000 That seems kind of fucked. 0.99

02:16:45.000 Yeah, we just went and got... 0.99

02:16:47.000 As many calories as we could.

02:16:50.000 We just were under, just gorged, just ate and ate and ate and ate and ate and then slept the whole next day.

02:16:57.000 So I'd say a day of solid recovery.

02:17:00.000 God, that's so crazy.

02:17:02.000 That's such a wild experience.

02:17:04.000 That Kodiak Island, man, was the subject of that television show that was really controversial because it had James Hatfield from Metallica was the narrator.

02:17:13.000 Do you know that show?

02:17:14.000 Yeah.

02:17:14.000 It was some bear hunting thing.

02:17:16.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:17:16.000 It was filled with fuckery. 0.99

02:17:20.000 That's what I heard. 0.98

02:17:21.000 Just bear sounds in the bushes and the camera shaking.

02:17:25.000 The same bear sound at every commercial break.

02:17:28.000 Did you see him?

02:17:29.000 Where is he?

02:17:30.000 And then we cut to commercial.

02:17:32.000 And then it's some CG bear like from Cabela's Big Game Hunter video game.

02:17:36.000 It was so bad.

02:17:37.000 It was like there was one scene where these guys were stalking this bear and the guy was about to pull the trigger on his bow and then they cut to commercial and then they come back and then all of a sudden the guy doesn't have a jacket on and his pack's not there.

02:17:50.000 It's like he's in the same scene.

02:17:52.000 But did he take his pack off?

02:17:54.000 Are you reenacting this?

02:17:55.000 Did you forget he wore a jacket? 0.99

02:17:57.000 There was a lot of fuckery, man. 0.97

02:17:59.000 And then I talked to this dude who worked on the set, and he was explaining to me how much fuckery was going on, and then it made even more sense. 0.97

02:18:06.000 That's what I'm talking about, the creating drama, and I hate that. 0.94

02:18:10.000 Yep.

02:18:11.000 I was watching some other Alaska show, and it was supposedly about, like, a wolf is coming to eat our cows, and we're gonna go kill this wolf, and then...

02:18:20.000 There's the wolf!

02:18:21.000 And then the guy gets off the horse and shoots the wolf. 0.99

02:18:23.000 And being a hunter, I mean, you can immediately spot bullshit, like, instantly. 0.96

02:18:29.000 And he throws the wolf on, and it was this wolf that had been shot days ago. 0.99

02:18:34.000 I mean, the thing had rigor mortis, its eyes were sunken, and it looked like they just pulled it out of the freezer.

02:18:41.000 Me and my brother were laughing so hard.

02:18:43.000 He's supposedly tying it on the horse and he's just like a frozen board.

02:18:47.000 I was going, oh my god. 1.00

02:18:48.000 That's so stupid. 1.00

02:18:49.000 They're pretending they just shot it. 1.00

02:18:51.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:18:52.000 That's so stupid. 1.00

02:18:53.000 There was one episode of the Alaska, the last frontier that I watched where they were fishing and it was like this really badly acted thing where they're like, there's a bear. 1.00

02:19:04.000 I hear a Bear, like, stop freaking out.

02:19:07.000 We gotta get out of here.

02:19:07.000 And, like, the bear's coming.

02:19:08.000 There he is.

02:19:09.000 Look, he's right over there.

02:19:10.000 And you look over, the bear is eating a filleted salmon.

02:19:13.000 Oh, yeah.

02:19:14.000 Like, they filleted the meat off the salmon.

02:19:17.000 It's, like, clearly cut.

02:19:18.000 Like, you can't get any...

02:19:20.000 Slice.

02:19:21.000 Like, it was totally, obviously...

02:19:23.000 It was just from the store. 0.99

02:19:24.000 They laid this fucking filleted salmon out there. 0.99

02:19:27.000 The bones and the head and everything. 1.00

02:19:28.000 They laid it out there for the bear to eat.

02:19:30.000 Yeah.

02:19:31.000 So the bear would, like, get close so they could film it. 0.99

02:19:33.000 And they're pretending it's coming after them, like, what the fuck are you doing? 0.99

02:19:37.000 I can't watch your show now. 0.99

02:19:38.000 Now you got me.

02:19:39.000 I can't watch it.

02:19:40.000 Yeah.

02:19:41.000 That's one thing that's really cool about your show, and Rinella operates the same way as does Jim Shockey, that Uncharted show that he has.

02:19:49.000 Amazing.

02:19:50.000 That's an amazing show.

02:19:51.000 It's more like a cultural exploration show than it even is a hunting show.

02:19:58.000 I mean, he goes to these places and eventually shoots an animal, but he's in the weirdest spots on Earth, man. 0.99

02:20:05.000 Really dangerous, war-torn areas, and he's bow-hunting a fucking goat or something. 0.97

02:20:11.000 And that's where it comes into the adventure aspect of it as well, because there's so many aspects to hunting. 0.98

02:20:16.000 The benefit is the meat, but while you're getting your meat, you get these rich experiences that you can't get any other way.

02:20:22.000 Well, you get a deeper understanding of life itself in the sense of actual biological life on Earth.

02:20:30.000 You get a deeper understanding of not just experiencing it from a video or reading an article about it, but from actually being there in the environment where these things live.

02:20:40.000 The other thing is you get to be a part of nature, not just a watcher of nature, not just a bystander.

02:20:47.000 Like even doing the Apex Predator show, I'm looking at the way an animal lives and then trying to see how humans compare and then go do it.

02:20:54.000 And the doing it part is completely different than the watching it part.

02:20:58.000 I can watch the great blue heron do something and there's the heron episode. 0.54

02:21:03.000 Obviously, there's some things that are ridiculous about it.

02:21:06.000 Like I decide to go into a river wearing stilts.

02:21:09.000 I go, this seems like you're trying to make entertaining television.

02:21:13.000 And at first I thought, is this going to be one of those things where it's like the filleted salmon type show?

02:21:18.000 No, that's the last thing I want.

02:21:20.000 So I look at the way the Great Blue Heron hunts and I'm bird watching for...

02:21:25.000 The majority of the first part, like watching the way these animals do something.

02:21:29.000 And by watching them, I thought I understood it.

02:21:31.000 And then I went and did it in a similar fashion where I'm now putting myself in the experience of dealing with things like water refraction, deep water, clarity, trying to sneak in and be on this elevated platform.

02:21:45.000 And the experience of doing it, I learned something about that bird that I would have never learned otherwise.

02:21:51.000 And it was like this light on moment where I thought, okay, even in the midst of these semi-ridiculous things, I'm learning something that I can't learn by observing.

02:22:01.000 I have to learn by doing.

02:22:03.000 Okay.

02:22:03.000 Now were you using a bow or a spear?

02:22:05.000 A spear.

02:22:06.000 A spear.

02:22:06.000 Yeah.

02:22:07.000 And light refraction, from what I understand it with bow hunting, you have to shoot in the water like maybe six inches below where you think the fish is?

02:22:17.000 Yeah, so it varies on water clarity, angle of the sun, depth of the fish, and at some point I realized the fish were so deep that the spear wouldn't even really reach them with enough force for penetration.

02:22:33.000 How deep was that?

02:22:34.000 How much penetration did you get? 0.72

02:22:37.000 Still steep, so it's like three feet.

02:22:41.000 So by the time the spear, if you throw the spear, by the time it gets down to the fish, they're ghosts.

02:22:46.000 They see it coming.

02:22:50.000 Did you get anything?

02:22:51.000 Oh, don't tell me.

02:22:53.000 Spoiler alert.

02:22:54.000 Yeah, spoiler alert.

02:22:54.000 Don't do it.

02:22:55.000 You know where you can find out?

02:22:57.000 ApexPredator.tv.

02:22:59.000 Yes, that's what I hear.

02:23:00.000 I hear it.

02:23:01.000 ApexPredator.tv.

02:23:02.000 Or on the Sportsman's channel.

02:23:03.000 You can buy the season for $14.99.

02:23:06.000 You can't go wrong.

02:23:07.000 Or Sportsman's channel every Thursday.

02:23:10.000 My DVR has four of the Coyote episodes on it for some reason.

02:23:14.000 Something went wacky.

02:23:15.000 Yeah, because it's got all kinds of airing times.

02:23:17.000 I think it's like a couple times on Thursday because it's...

02:23:20.000 8 Eastern and Pacific, which I wasn't smart enough to figure that out.

02:23:24.000 Somebody had to tell me what that meant.

02:23:26.000 Like, oh no, no.

02:23:27.000 It plays at 8 and 11. 8 over here, 8 over there.

02:23:34.000 How many of these things have you done?

02:23:36.000 Six episodes.

02:23:38.000 Do you think you're going to continue to do more?

02:23:39.000 Yeah, I hope so.

02:23:40.000 What's really going to determine that is people's involvement in viewing and viewership and other things, which I think it's a...

02:23:48.000 This is a show that...

02:23:49.000 I've seen a lot of shows, and this is a show that I want to watch, and I wanted to make a show that I wanted to watch.

02:23:54.000 And so this is what we attempted to do here, is make a show that I wanted to watch.

02:23:58.000 So it's got one viewer, me, and if other people...

02:24:01.000 Networks will be like, that's not enough.

02:24:02.000 Okay, you like it, but, you know, Billy Bob over here has to like it as well.

02:24:06.000 No, I enjoyed it.

02:24:07.000 I mean, I've only seen the one, the coyote with the buffalo episode, but I really enjoyed it.

02:24:12.000 I think it's a really well done show.

02:24:13.000 Like all the 0.0 shows, they're great.

02:24:15.000 They do...

02:24:17.000 Anthony Bourdain's show.

02:24:18.000 They do the Meat Eater show.

02:24:19.000 It's just a great company.

02:24:21.000 They just know how to do it.

02:24:22.000 They do it right.

02:24:22.000 They do good production.

02:24:24.000 They can take a concept that seems out there.

02:24:27.000 It's just one of those shows, you have to watch it to understand it.

02:24:30.000 I mean, I could talk about it, but if you really want to see if you like it or not, you have to watch it.

02:24:34.000 I think guys like you are really important in the world of hunting because what you represent is what doesn't fit when these guys have this stereotypical idea of what a hunter is.

02:24:46.000 The stereotypical idea of what a hunter is to a person who doesn't know any hunters.

02:24:50.000 They want to think of them as these loudmouthed, drunken dummies who don't really care.

02:24:54.000 These Bubba-type characters.

02:24:56.000 And Rinella flies in the face of that, as does Jim Shockey, as do you.

02:25:00.000 I think it's...

02:25:01.000 It's really important that people don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

02:25:06.000 Because this...

02:25:07.000 Yeah, those people are repulsive.

02:25:10.000 Yeah, the people who... 1.00

02:25:11.000 I mean, the assholes that laugh and mock these animals as they're shooting them, and people who are drunks are going out there, and irresponsible use of firearms and weapons. 1.00

02:25:21.000 You're right. 1.00

02:25:22.000 I agree with you as much as anybody that's listening.

02:25:24.000 Someone who disrespects the lives that they're taking and does it in this...

02:25:31.000 Really repulsive way.

02:25:35.000 I'm with you.

02:25:36.000 If you're an anti-hunter because of those people, if they were all like that, I would be like that too.

02:25:42.000 But that's not what hunting has been...

02:25:46.000 As it's been explained to me, and as I've experienced from guys like Ryan Callahan, from guys like you, from...

02:25:53.000 All the people out there that I've run into that are real hunters have been very respectful, very fascinated by it, intrigued, constantly curious as to the nature of these animals, and super respectful of the lives of these animals that they take.

02:26:10.000 You know, I think too, because for a long time people, I think there's a lot of hunters that have very similar views to myself.

02:26:18.000 And for a long time they just haven't had necessarily the ability or the pulpit to show that there's other people out there like that.

02:26:26.000 Exactly.

02:26:27.000 Because when I first started, I've always wanted to get into hunting television, and when I first started trying to break into it, And I got a criticism because there was this model.

02:26:38.000 It was that Bubba Hunter guy.

02:26:39.000 And I wasn't that guy.

02:26:41.000 And so the person had told me, well, if you really want to do this, then you need to do whatever.

02:26:47.000 And I was on a hunt and I shot a deer.

02:26:49.000 And it was like I was told that I need to celebrate in some extravagant way.

02:26:56.000 Fist pumping type way. 0.84

02:26:58.000 And I did it for that moment.

02:27:01.000 And I immediately regretted it.

02:27:03.000 I felt horrible.

02:27:04.000 I felt like this isn't me.

02:27:06.000 And if this is what it is, I don't want to do this.

02:27:09.000 And I got...

02:27:11.000 It was like...

02:27:12.000 And that right there told me, like, if this is that industry and this is that, I don't want to be a part of this.

02:27:18.000 But then my thought was, you know, there's probably other people out there like me that if they had the chance to do it how, just be myself and do it, then they would recognize that and maybe change the whole way things are going.

02:27:31.000 And that's my goal.

02:27:32.000 I mean, it'd be awesome to be a part of the people that change the way people see hunters because I think there is the ability to make that change because there is a lot of us out there that respect nature, respect the animals, see it as a way of life and not just as some crazy bubba guy out there hooting and hollering and fist pumping and doing his thing and not respecting what we have.

02:27:56.000 The lack of appreciation for the life that you've just taken and also the lack of understanding of the complexities of the whole situation is also one of the disturbing things about the whole quote-unquote Bubba thing.

02:28:08.000 Yeah.

02:28:09.000 Like, the show that you put on.

02:28:12.000 Like, we got a goodin', we got a goodin', yeehaw!

02:28:17.000 Faking enthusiasm.

02:28:19.000 Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with being excited.

02:28:21.000 Right.

02:28:22.000 And it's a different kind of excitement.

02:28:25.000 It's an excitement where you're excited for...

02:28:30.000 It's hard to explain the type of excitement.

02:28:34.000 Because it's a...

02:28:36.000 I took an animal, but I'm excited because of the challenge and what it represents to me.

02:28:41.000 Like, it went through this.

02:28:43.000 It's not always a solid moment, but it's an excitement in this very deep moment where you did take the life of an animal, and you need to respect that.

02:28:53.000 And for me, I always have, and I've expected the entire journey to get to that point.

02:28:57.000 And so for me to smile behind an animal, to me, means it's not disrespectful.

02:29:02.000 Right.

02:29:03.000 There's nothing wrong with you being with a big animal that you shot.

02:29:05.000 You're very happy it all worked out well and smiling.

02:29:07.000 Correct.

02:29:08.000 But people do.

02:29:09.000 They think, oh, you've got to be somber.

02:29:11.000 You've just killed.

02:29:11.000 You've just taken a life.

02:29:13.000 Why?

02:29:14.000 If you respect the life, if you're happy that it all worked out well, you're...

02:29:20.000 You're happy with your accomplishment and your hard work paid off.

02:29:23.000 Why can't you smile?

02:29:24.000 Is it disrespectful to the life that you've taken to smile?

02:29:27.000 It doesn't make the life any less significant if you don't smile or do smile.

02:29:32.000 It doesn't change anything.

02:29:34.000 But what I think you bring to the table and what guys like Shaggy or Rinella bring to the table is a level of I've never had

02:30:05.000 this opinion of hunting.

02:30:07.000 Until I listen to these guys in these podcasts I always had this really negative really stereotypical view of what a hunter is and now I kind of understand it and I've gotten that like guys on my message board There's guys on my message board that have evolved over the time They've been there where they were there years ago and they had this idea like all hunters are assholes and then as time went on They've kind of been exposed to all these different people and all these different conversations.

02:30:32.000 They realize oh We're just involved in this weird culture that has This compartmentalization of various aspects of life.

02:30:43.000 And the big one is where you get your food from.

02:30:46.000 So there's people that are criticizing people that do it themselves.

02:30:49.000 There's no better way for an animal to die than by a hunter.

02:30:55.000 There really is no better way.

02:30:56.000 If you shoot a deer or an elk and that animal is dead within seconds, that is the most peaceful way it's ever going to die.

02:31:06.000 The most pure way you're ever going to acquire meat, it's so much less struggle and less suffering than being a domesticated animal that's raised to be slaughtered. 1.00

02:31:17.000 It's so much better than being killed by a predator out in the wild that's going to slowly eat you asshole first. 1.00

02:31:24.000 There's no better way. 1.00

02:31:26.000 If you really, truly love animals, you've got to take into account a few...

02:31:32.000 Undeniable truths.

02:31:33.000 One is that populations need to be controlled, and they are controlled through the natural way with predators, but when we live in those environments, you have to pick a team.

02:31:42.000 If you're gonna say, team people, well then you're gonna have to control the predators as well.

02:31:47.000 And you have to control the game animals because, look, try living in upstate New York where you can't even drive down the road without slamming into a suicidal deer.

02:31:54.000 I mean, they have some places where they have to control the populations of deer So badly that they have, like in Pennsylvania, they don't even have a season.

02:32:02.000 There's parts of Pennsylvania where you could just go and just shoot deer all the time.

02:32:07.000 In these suburban areas.

02:32:08.000 They did an episode of Bone Collector on it.

02:32:10.000 Really?

02:32:10.000 Because these guys got up in a tree stand in the summer.

02:32:12.000 They're just fucking shooting deer left and right. 0.99

02:32:14.000 They're everywhere. 1.00

02:32:15.000 Because the people are running into them.

02:32:17.000 They're getting deer ticks.

02:32:18.000 People are getting Lyme disease because of it.

02:32:21.000 There's a lot more to what hunting is and to what...

02:32:27.000 What it represents to the people that are involved in it than the Bubba image.

02:32:32.000 Yeah, and there's always the thing that always makes me laugh is the people that say, oh, we'll just release more predators to control, like if you're all about animal population control, like make it before humans, like before human, or what did they say?

02:32:46.000 It was fine before we got here.

02:32:48.000 And I always laugh and say, when is when we got here?

02:32:51.000 You mean white people?

02:32:52.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:32:53.000 It's a waspy outlook on life.

02:32:56.000 Before we got here, before people came across the land bridge, humans and animals have been, especially on any con, have been coexisting for a very long time.

02:33:07.000 And humans have been a prime hunter of these animals as a predator in the natural food chain.

02:33:13.000 The animals that we didn't hunt no longer exist.

02:33:16.000 I haven't seen a T-Rex in a long time.

02:33:18.000 Oh, we were in a rough.

02:33:19.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:33:20.000 Well, that's the argument, too.

02:33:21.000 You know, if you want to really bring it back to the old days, let's start bringing dinosaurs back.

02:33:25.000 Exactly.

02:33:25.000 I mean, how...

02:33:27.000 Yeah.

02:33:29.000 Well, one of the main arguments with how human beings' brains developed to such a large size is because of hunting, because of the sophisticated methods that we need to employ to make sure that we kept eating food.

02:33:38.000 And one of the things that, like looking at Apex Spreader, it really kind of looks at humans and animals and how we've adapted and learned from nature.

02:33:48.000 If we were out there and, okay, well, yeah, our brains, it all comes back to we have...

02:33:55.000 Every animal out there can possibly beat us in a certain way.

02:33:59.000 Or whatever.

02:34:00.000 It's specialized in a certain way.

02:34:01.000 But it comes back to our brains.

02:34:02.000 We can figure out how to do what they do best.

02:34:04.000 And that's what this show explores.

02:34:05.000 How we figure out how to do what they do best and see how we compare to it.

02:34:09.000 And a lot of times we may not compare in a certain way.

02:34:12.000 But it comes back to using our brains and figuring out a way...

02:34:16.000 To make up for those adaptations.

02:34:17.000 So you did eight episodes this year.

02:34:19.000 You did the coyote, the wolf, alligator, what are the other ones?

02:34:23.000 Yeah, six episodes.

02:34:23.000 Golden Eagle?

02:34:23.000 Oh, six.

02:34:24.000 Golden Eagle?

02:34:25.000 Yeah, so the coyote one was looking at that Catelyn painting, but using the coyote skin in that fashion.

02:34:30.000 So the coyote, the wolf, the golden eagle, the great blue heron, the river otter, and the American alligator.

02:34:38.000 And if you, when you're done with all this, what are your next ideas?

02:34:43.000 We've got, I want to do, so even, it's called Apex Predator, but sometimes titles of shows may be misleading because I also want to look at every aspect of nature, not just predators, because I think there's a lot of other animals that can teach us things.

02:34:57.000 So we're considering humans as an apex predator.

02:35:00.000 How did we get to this point by learning from nature as well as humans?

02:35:03.000 These changes that we've made.

02:35:04.000 So one thing that I would like to do is look at camels and the way they carry water.

02:35:08.000 Because humans are, a camel can carry water, and humans are one of the only predators that can carry water.

02:35:14.000 So you think of that as an advantage.

02:35:16.000 And how we compare to a camel, like how much a water can camel, how long they can go, stages of dehydration.

02:35:21.000 So I'd like to explore that.

02:35:22.000 And hunt in a desert situation for an animal that necessarily...

02:35:26.000 I wouldn't be hunting for camels.

02:35:29.000 End quote.

02:35:30.000 Trust me, that's not something I want to get into.

02:35:33.000 But another desert animal may be an owdad or something in a very arid climate.

02:35:39.000 What else?

02:35:41.000 I'd really like to look at the way mountain lions, they're so quiet when they walk.

02:35:45.000 And some of these, you look at some of these episodes, you just see it as a 30-minute episode.

02:35:50.000 And some of these episodes, I've trained for months to prepare to do this episode, the wolf episode.

02:35:55.000 I mean, I was training, running, doing a lot of things to prepare myself to be able to attempt to run an elk down.

02:36:01.000 And one of these episodes that we had slated an idea of, I was training for, was this mountain lion episode where I'd compare how mountain lions, like, the amount of noise they make when they walk is very little.

02:36:12.000 I've had them just walk past me and never heard a thing.

02:36:15.000 So I thought, let's measure, kind of measure how loud a mountain lion is when it's walking, and then us with our boots on, and then us with our bare feet.

02:36:24.000 And then go and do a hunt barefoot.

02:36:28.000 And so for months, I was training to harden my feet and get them tough enough where I could go in the desert and hunt an animal barefoot.

02:36:36.000 We ended up not doing that episode, so for months I was walking around barefoot.

02:36:40.000 Just toughening your feet?

02:36:43.000 Yeah, toughening my feet, so I'm going to have to do that all over again.

02:36:46.000 But that's one of them.

02:36:48.000 You got any crazy ideas?

02:36:50.000 Because there's a lot of cool animals out there that I'd like to explore.

02:36:54.000 How tough did you get your feet?

02:36:56.000 I could walk for a while and not worry about it.

02:36:59.000 So they just got thickly calloused?

02:37:01.000 Yeah, they're already pretty calloused.

02:37:03.000 I think what I've noticed is it was more of a sensory thing.

02:37:07.000 Your feet don't necessarily get that much tougher.

02:37:10.000 You just learn to feel the ground different.

02:37:14.000 Have you ever seen that dude from Dual Survivor that walks everywhere barefoot? 0.97

02:37:18.000 He's such a goofball.

02:37:19.000 It's like one of those shows where, you know, these guys like... 1.00

02:37:22.000 For sure there's some fuckery going on in the show. 0.98

02:37:25.000 For sure. 0.98

02:37:26.000 But this guy wears no shoes.

02:37:29.000 Like, this is his idea that, you know... 0.95

02:37:31.000 To really truly survive, you know, you're gonna have to go without shoes because occasionally you find yourself with no shoes and then you'd be fucked because your feet are soft, so he doesn't want to be in that situation, so his feet are always hard. 0.95

02:37:43.000 It does toughen your feet. 0.90

02:37:45.000 Before I did, I did like a lot of research.

02:37:48.000 There's some crazies out there that are all about this like no shoe thing and there's dudes that talk about drawing like a fake sandal on your foot because you can't go into places, you know, like no shoes, no shirt, no service.

02:37:58.000 So they've got all these, like, tricks of making, like, a rope, a paracord fake sandal so people don't really notice that you're barefoot.

02:38:04.000 What?

02:38:04.000 And then how to, like, get into it and start by going on varying terrain.

02:38:09.000 And I actually had to spend, while I was trying to toughen my feet, I had to spend some time in L.A. So I was, like, cruising down downtown L.A. near Skid Row, barefoot, and I thought, this is a good way to pick up a disease.

02:38:18.000 I'm not going to do this.

02:38:19.000 Or a needle.

02:38:20.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:38:21.000 Glass and all kinds of stuff.

02:38:22.000 You were barefoot training near Skid Row.

02:38:25.000 Yeah.

02:38:25.000 When the cops pull you over.

02:38:27.000 What are you doing?

02:38:28.000 I'm training for a hunting show. 1.00

02:38:30.000 What the fuck? 1.00

02:38:31.000 Get in the car. 1.00

02:38:32.000 Exactly. 1.00

02:38:32.000 Asshole, you're going right to jail. 1.00

02:38:35.000 So, we've got a lot of things slayed, a lot of different animals I want to look at. 1.00

02:38:43.000 Trapdoor spider.

02:38:44.000 They are cool to me.

02:38:45.000 Trapdoor spider?

02:38:46.000 Trapdoor spider.

02:38:46.000 What are they?

02:38:47.000 It's a spider that hides, and then when something comes by, it jumps out real fast and grabs it.

02:38:53.000 So I wanted to build some kind of hovel and wait in it and try to grab a deer or something that comes by.

02:39:00.000 So we've got all kinds of fun stuff like that.

02:39:03.000 When you grab the deer, are you going to try to kill it?

02:39:06.000 Like with a knife or something?

02:39:07.000 No, I think on those type of episodes, I'd probably let it go.

02:39:11.000 Because I have the opportunity to let it go.

02:39:14.000 And I may...

02:39:16.000 I don't really know.

02:39:18.000 I think I would just let it go.

02:39:19.000 How much do you communicate with people that are critics of hunting?

02:39:24.000 I don't communicate with very many people ever because I'm always out doing stuff, but you mean like in my day-to-day?

02:39:31.000 Do you ever have issues with people that have problems with hunting?

02:39:34.000 I don't really.

02:39:35.000 That's one of the things about hunting that I think is...

02:39:38.000 What's kind of weird is there's not a lot of communication.

02:39:44.000 There's like the converted, like preaching to the choir. 0.97

02:39:47.000 Yeah.

02:39:47.000 And then there's these other people that have these misconstrued ideas, misconceptions about what hunting is.

02:39:53.000 And they don't seem...

02:39:54.000 One of the problems is they don't seem to get together and talk that often.

02:39:57.000 And I've seen Rinella have conversations with people that were kind of anti-hunters and...

02:40:01.000 I guess, you know, actually in my day-to-day, I do have a lot of conversations with people that aren't hunters, but they're also people that are close to me.

02:40:09.000 Right.

02:40:09.000 They know you.

02:40:10.000 Yeah, like family members that aren't hunters.

02:40:12.000 You know, it's funny as my brother's girlfriend comes from a family that's not hunters.

02:40:17.000 Like, she's the typical yogi type that would never consider hunting.

02:40:21.000 She didn't even like eating very much meat, game meat.

02:40:24.000 And now, this year, she went and got her hunter safety and was going to go hunt elk.

02:40:28.000 Whoa.

02:40:29.000 Because...

02:40:30.000 I think when you really sit down and think about it, if you're talking to somebody like myself or people that are like-minded to me, there's a lot of things that we can pull from that if you just actually had a real conversation and take out all the bullshit of the,

02:40:46.000 I don't even know, on both sides, I call it the hunting propaganda and the non-hunter propaganda, the things that you're told and you think or whatever.

02:40:54.000 You just actually have a real conversation about it.

02:40:56.000 It makes sense.

02:40:57.000 Hunting makes sense. 0.99

02:40:59.000 It makes sense and it's also, it sounds bizarre and contradictory, but it's very spiritual.

02:41:05.000 Yeah.

02:41:05.000 There's something, it sounds like, oh no it's not, you're taking a life.

02:41:08.000 I get all the arguments, I understand the arguments, but I'm telling you, there's something, there's something even psychedelic about going into their world And hunting them, dipping your toe into the wild, the true wild.

02:41:23.000 There's something like boundary dissolving about that.

02:41:27.000 It changes the way I looked at the whole world.

02:41:31.000 It really did.

02:41:33.000 Like the first time I went deer hunting...

02:41:35.000 One of the crazy things about it was looking at this deer, locking eyes with this thing in the wild and understanding the roles that we have.

02:41:43.000 My role is the predator. 0.99

02:41:44.000 His role is trying to get the fuck away from me. 1.00

02:41:47.000 And then taking its life and killing it and eating it. 1.00

02:41:49.000 And I was like, this is a spiritual experience. 0.99

02:41:52.000 A deeply spiritual experience in a weird way that I didn't anticipate.

02:41:57.000 I anticipated it being Maybe somber and that I would have to get over the sadness of it all and then I might not even want to do it again Maybe I'll just become a vegetarian.

02:42:08.000 Those were like real considerations that I had but after the event I felt like there's a there's something that most folks are missing about this experience and I think it's because it's been very poorly represented in our culture by media by these the the stereotypical Bubba type by all these different Different pieces of information that have sort of filtered down to the average urban civilization inhabitant.

02:42:38.000 We don't have a connection to it, so we're basing our opinions on it just based on stereotypes, on these immediate depictions of what a hunter is.

02:42:48.000 Yeah, it's those kind of...

02:42:53.000 False ideas but then when you if you actually got to talk to someone but it's also one of those things you talk about it we talk about we're sitting here talking about it but until you go through that experience you necessarily don't know what it feels like what it means what it means to you my mom's stepdad who called grandpa he is loves fishing big out like loves nature hiking other things Went hunting,

02:43:21.000 shot a bird, felt really sad, never went hunting.

02:43:25.000 But that was his experience.

02:43:26.000 So everybody maybe experiences it in a different way, but you really don't know until you jump in and do that experience.

02:43:35.000 Yeah, I talked to someone who had that similar experience with a deer.

02:43:37.000 They shot a deer and the deer was moaning when it was on the ground making all these crazy noises and never went hunting again.

02:43:43.000 Right.

02:43:44.000 Yeah, and it just depends on maybe your experience.

02:43:48.000 But also, I think it depends on your reason for going out there.

02:43:52.000 If you have never hunted before, and you say to yourself, I would like to go hunting because I'd like to eat less meat that I don't know where it came from.

02:44:03.000 Be more involved in that process.

02:44:05.000 If you went out and said, I have a goal that maybe one day I'd like to, in my house, only eat things that I've killed.

02:44:10.000 Even before you've even killed anything.

02:44:12.000 Yeah.

02:44:13.000 We're good to go. 0.99

02:44:32.000 You're killing them with your credit card or your money. 0.97

02:44:35.000 Somebody else, maybe you aren't seeing it, but it's happening. 0.91

02:44:38.000 It's not going to not happen.

02:44:40.000 And it's happening as a direct result of your choices.

02:44:43.000 That's something that we conveniently try to distance ourselves from.

02:44:46.000 Yeah.

02:44:47.000 So if you can be part of that process, then...

02:44:49.000 It's not something...

02:44:51.000 I mean, it's a different experience.

02:44:53.000 It really is.

02:44:54.000 I don't...

02:44:55.000 It's very hard to explain, but I think we sit here for however long and try to explain it.

02:45:01.000 It would take days.

02:45:01.000 Yeah, you just...

02:45:02.000 It's very hard for people to get involved, too, that aren't hunters.

02:45:06.000 It frustrates me.

02:45:07.000 Yeah.

02:45:07.000 And I don't know what...

02:45:09.000 Because I get a lot of people on social media or whatever that have listened to, like, found me through your podcasts or whatever, and a lot of them have now jumped into hunting, and there's still a lot of them that are trying to figure out how to do it.

02:45:22.000 And I would say the main question I get asked is how I get into it, or how would someone get into it?

02:45:28.000 Really, I mean, the first thing, you've got to take the hunter's safety and do the legal requirements.

02:45:31.000 Because once you have that, then your barriers to entry or...

02:45:34.000 We're good to go.

02:45:53.000 Wild Sheep Foundation or Elk Foundation, and you go out on these projects and do something for wildlife, like build a water guzzler, reseed an area that's burnt, do all these things, or conservation efforts that are done by hunters, and you meet other people.

02:46:09.000 Because hunters, if you meet them in the flesh, are probably really willing to help you out if you're like, I really want to get into this.

02:46:16.000 And you've got to find the right type of guy, too, or woman or whatever to get you into it. 0.98

02:46:21.000 But the easiest way is to have somebody show you, like a mentor.

02:46:23.000 This place where I hunted moose, I should tell people about this guy because he's awesome.

02:46:28.000 Bigcountryoutfitters.ca in northern BC. Mike Hawkridge is a guy who is the main guide.

02:46:37.000 He's got other guides there as well that work with him.

02:46:39.000 But he does that with people that have never hunted before.

02:46:42.000 He'll take you through the whole deal.

02:46:44.000 He'll take you through the whole...

02:46:45.000 He's explaining to you how to shoot, explaining to you how to breathe when you're pulling the trigger, shot placement, aiming, the whole deal.

02:46:58.000 He'll take you through the whole thing.

02:47:00.000 Stalking, hunting, butchering, the whole deal.

02:47:07.000 About as real a guy as you can get to.

02:47:09.000 I love that dude. 0.95

02:47:11.000 He's fucking awesome. 0.79

02:47:12.000 Had a great time with him. 0.98

02:47:13.000 And he's one of the few outfitters that I know that welcomes people that have never had any hunting experience whatsoever.

02:47:20.000 And he has some disastrous stories because of that.

02:47:23.000 People panic and they freak out.

02:47:26.000 Those are my favorite people to guide, though, because they don't come in with an expectation of something that...

02:47:31.000 You know, I mean, there are hunters out there that have just expectations that I'm not okay with.

02:47:35.000 And so people that are looking for a new experience, they're there for the experience.

02:47:39.000 Like people that go in with an expectation of a certain size animal.

02:47:43.000 Yeah, or like, you know, I think the...

02:47:45.000 Or...

02:47:47.000 Yeah, like they pay for a hunt.

02:47:49.000 I don't sell animals.

02:47:50.000 I'm an outfitter.

02:47:51.000 I sell a hunting experience.

02:47:53.000 I take you hunting.

02:47:54.000 I don't sell you an animal.

02:47:55.000 Just because you go hunting doesn't mean you're going to kill something.

02:47:58.000 Yeah, it's not possible.

02:47:59.000 No, it's not.

02:48:00.000 No one can guarantee that.

02:48:02.000 If you're new and you're there for the experience, you're learning something or you kill something. 0.95

02:48:05.000 Obviously, you want to shoot something. 0.98

02:48:07.000 That's the end goal. 0.83

02:48:08.000 That's the result.

02:48:09.000 But it's so much more than that.

02:48:12.000 It is.

02:48:12.000 It is so much more than that.

02:48:13.000 And I hope these conversations do help.

02:48:15.000 I think they do.

02:48:16.000 I think they do.

02:48:17.000 I think that people learn from them, and I think that we're doing our part to express what we've learned.

02:48:24.000 For you, it's your whole life.

02:48:26.000 For me, it's just over the last few years.

02:48:28.000 But it's not what people think it is. 1.00

02:48:31.000 And if you're tired of these conversations, go fuck yourself. 1.00

02:48:34.000 I'm tired of you not knowing. 1.00

02:48:36.000 There you go.

02:48:38.000 ApexPredator.tv.

02:48:40.000 Apex Predators on Sportsman's Channel.

02:48:42.000 Thursday night at 8 o'clock on both coasts.

02:48:46.000 Remy Warren on Twitter.

02:48:47.000 R-E-M-I. And Instagram.

02:48:50.000 And Instagram.

02:48:50.000 At Remy Warren.

02:48:51.000 At Remy Warren.

02:48:51.000 You're an awesome dude, man.

02:48:53.000 Really appreciate having you on.

02:48:54.000 It's been fun.

02:48:55.000 It's awesome.

02:48:55.000 Anytime.

02:48:56.000 And we gotta hunt one day.

02:48:57.000 Let's go elk hunting in Montana with some bows.

02:49:00.000 Let's do it.

02:49:00.000 We'll set it up right now.

02:49:01.000 Okay, we'll set it up right now.

02:49:02.000 We're going to set it up off air.

02:49:03.000 Let's do it.

02:49:04.000 All right.

02:49:04.000 Love you guys.

02:49:05.000 Oh, I'll be back tonight at 8 o'clock with Aubrey DeGray, anti-aging specialist, a real scientist.

02:49:12.000 This should be fun.

02:49:14.000 All right.

02:49:14.000 See you soon.

02:49:14.000 Bye.

The Joe Rogan Experience - April 22, 2015

Joe Rogan Experience #637 - Remi Warren

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Summary

Transcript