The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #670 - Michael A. Wood, Jr.

00:00:01.000 And we're live.

00:00:04.000 What's up, dude?

00:00:05.000 How are you?

00:00:06.000 Good, Joe.

00:00:06.000 How are you?

00:00:07.000 Very good.

00:00:08.000 Good to see you.

00:00:09.000 For folks who don't know the story, Michael, as he prefers to be talked to as, directed as, referred to as, you were a cop in Baltimore, and you put a string of tweets that I read that was on Huffington Post.

00:00:32.000 And that's when I got interested in this whole story. 0.98

00:00:34.000 Because it's very rare that someone who's a cop comes out and tells about all the shit that they experience. 0.98

00:00:42.000 I have friends that are cops, and I know there's a lot of good cops out there. 0.97

00:00:46.000 Just like, there's good everything.

00:00:49.000 You know, Sam Harris and Dan Carlin just did a podcast recently together.

00:00:54.000 It's a really excellent podcast. 0.98

00:00:55.000 And one of the things they were talking about, they were talking about People in power people that were our politicians that they there's a the whole spectrum You get great people people that are genuinely trying to do good and you also get psychopaths It seems like you ran into a lot of fucking psychopaths How long were you a cop for? 0.97

00:01:17.000 I was a cop for 11 years. 0.98

00:01:18.000 You look like you're 20. Thanks.

00:01:20.000 How's that possible?

00:01:21.000 I don't know, good genetics. 0.91

00:01:23.000 Good genetics, and I guess the stress didn't fuck with you.

00:01:25.000 It didn't, really. 0.93

00:01:26.000 Really?

00:01:27.000 How did it not?

00:01:29.000 My idea of what an officer should be Was to be more Robocop-ish, like where I took my emotions out of the job and handled it strictly as enforcing the law.

00:01:40.000 So if I was spit on, I realized they weren't spitting at me.

00:01:44.000 They were spitting at the uniform.

00:01:45.000 It was just irrelevant.

00:01:46.000 I understood it wasn't personal.

00:01:48.000 So I separated that as like a role, maybe, like I was acting.

00:01:53.000 That's a great attitude to have, I guess.

00:01:56.000 Was that something that you thought about before you became a cop?

00:02:00.000 Or is it something you cultivated while you were a cop?

00:02:03.000 I can't say for sure, but it seems like I actually think that was the wrong way to think.

00:02:08.000 But if you analyze it and you're at that time, you think, well, how am I not going to be biased?

00:02:13.000 I'm not going to be biased by separating myself from the situation and kind of acting as autonomous.

00:02:20.000 Right.

00:02:21.000 But I think that also made me blind, because if I was being blind to racism, then I was being blind to when we were doing it.

00:02:28.000 Even if I wasn't doing it, I wasn't seeing it when it occurred either, because I was literally blinding myself to it.

00:02:35.000 So you're saying that if you were blind to racism against you, then you were also blind to cops that were committing racism?

00:02:42.000 So if I looked at it as whether I was talking to somebody of Latino descent, of black, whatever, male, female, I looked at them just as equally, regardless.

00:02:55.000 So if you do that, then you don't see that you're disproportionately enforcing things against somebody, because I'm literally not trying to see that.

00:03:05.000 Hmm.

00:03:05.000 So, that's interesting.

00:03:08.000 So, by trying to treat everyone as equal, you weren't taking account of how many black people you were dealing with, how many Latinos you were dealing with, how many people of color, how many minorities?

00:03:21.000 Is that a fair assessment?

00:03:22.000 It is fair to the extent that I'll admit that when I was in the Eastern District, I would intentionally lock white people up. 1.00

00:03:30.000 So that I could make sure my numbers weren't, like, my squad, it wasn't like, oh my gosh, look, they look up 95% African Americans. 0.99

00:03:38.000 I didn't want to see that.

00:03:38.000 I wanted to see some kind of balance, so I was, like, aware that, hey, we're locking too many black people up, but I don't think I, it just didn't compute at the time.

00:03:47.000 It takes time for it to settle in.

00:03:49.000 So what about those poor white people that you locked up on purpose?

00:03:52.000 I got nothing.

00:03:55.000 Were they guilty at least?

00:03:56.000 Yeah, yeah, of course.

00:03:57.000 I never locked up anybody that wasn't guilty. 1.00

00:03:59.000 But you experienced a lot of shit. 0.99

00:04:01.000 I mean, some of the things that I read that... 1.00

00:04:04.000 Okay, here's one.

00:04:05.000 Punting a handcuffed, face-down suspect in the face after a foot chase.

00:04:11.000 Um... 1.00

00:04:12.000 Pissing and shitting inside suspects homes during raids on their beds and clothes Jacking up and illegally searching thousands of people with no legal justification This is crazy man. 1.00

00:04:25.000 This is crazy stuff. 0.99

00:04:27.000 Well When you're doing it, it's just what police do.

00:04:32.000 You know it.

00:04:32.000 You've seen it on TV. You've seen it driving by.

00:04:35.000 You've seen a corner full of black guys with the cops searching them.

00:04:38.000 You've seen it. 0.70

00:04:39.000 And when they're going into those pockets, you can't go into those pockets.

00:04:41.000 You simply can't.

00:04:42.000 But we do.

00:04:44.000 You're not allowed to.

00:04:45.000 Right.

00:04:45.000 It's illegal.

00:04:46.000 You have no way of doing it unless you're getting a frisk where you can justify plain field doctoring, and then you can get into the pocket.

00:04:54.000 But that's extremely rare.

00:04:56.000 I mean, that's a specific set of circumstances under a Terry stop, and that's nothing that you see.

00:05:00.000 What's a Terry stop?

00:05:01.000 So, Terry v. 0.99

00:05:02.000 Ohio was a case law that established, I could be slightly off in the particulars, but If somebody was displaying the characteristics of an armed person and you had suspicion or a hunch that criminal activity was afoot, you could stop that person and conduct a frisk of the outer garments.

00:05:16.000 Outer garments.

00:05:17.000 Right.

00:05:18.000 So just a pat-down, essentially.

00:05:19.000 So does outer garments mean a jacket?

00:05:22.000 Right a jacket so if you had if like you thought there they had a weapon on their hip you could pull back the jacket and kind of pat it down But it seems as the laws written it would have to you'd have to even like squish it and it's just what you can touch from the outside So if you patted the outside of the jacket and felt a gun that was in his waist Then you could you could arrest him or take that gun,

00:05:43.000 right?

00:05:44.000 You're perfectly fine, but you can't dig in his pockets and look for crack Right.

00:05:47.000 Well, you can if you have what that's plain field doctrine.

00:05:51.000 So if through my expertise, I can tell that that is packaging that is consistent with narcotics that are distributed in the area, and I can justify that, then I can go and retrieve those narcotics.

00:06:02.000 That's an extremely, I mean, if you can just think about that, how do I really know that that bag in your pocket is marijuana, not oregano?

00:06:12.000 I'm not sure if that should be legally justified or not. 0.87

00:06:15.000 So, that stop and frisk shit that they were doing in New York, they're not doing that anymore, right? 0.92

00:06:19.000 Isn't that the deal? 0.98

00:06:19.000 We talked about that on a podcast once. 0.98

00:06:21.000 We went over all the times that it was just innocent people. 0.99

00:06:24.000 And it's fucking staggering. 1.00

00:06:26.000 It's disgusting. 1.00

00:06:27.000 That stop, they would just be able to pull white, I mean black kids, I should, white kids. 1.00

00:06:31.000 Not really though, right? 0.90

00:06:32.000 It was mostly black kids. 0.92

00:06:33.000 They would just be able to pull them over and go, hey, let me check you. 0.93

00:06:37.000 And they would just check their bodies.

00:06:39.000 And most of the time, they were innocent.

00:06:42.000 Most of the time.

00:06:43.000 There was nothing to check for.

00:06:45.000 I'm going to tell you that 99.9999% of them have nothing on them because they're not even usually documented.

00:06:52.000 So in Baltimore, we'll do stop and frisk, and if you do a stop and frisk, you have to conduct an entire specific report called a stop and frisk report that justifies everything you did.

00:07:01.000 And so it's a big pain.

00:07:03.000 So no one's going to write that.

00:07:05.000 So they just do it and they move on. 0.98

00:07:07.000 So your stats are, any stat you see is junk.

00:07:10.000 And the stats that you see that are junk sit there and say one in a thousand actually have something on them.

00:07:14.000 So think about what reality is.

00:07:17.000 Jesus.

00:07:19.000 What led to you leaving the police force?

00:07:23.000 Was this a build-up?

00:07:25.000 Was this something that you thought about for a long time?

00:07:28.000 Are you ready to laugh?

00:07:29.000 Yes.

00:07:30.000 Okay.

00:07:31.000 We had a shooting range in the basement of the Eastern District.

00:07:36.000 We had to move something.

00:07:38.000 We had to put one desk on top of another desk.

00:07:40.000 It slipped and I tore my shoulder out.

00:07:42.000 There's your exciting story for why I left.

00:07:44.000 That's it?

00:07:44.000 That's it.

00:07:45.000 What was the injury?

00:07:47.000 I had my shoulder reconstructed, just tore everything out, and then I put it back together.

00:07:51.000 Like what?

00:07:52.000 I have no idea.

00:07:53.000 It just came out, and so the clavicle, not rotator cuff, so the cartilage that folds over just doesn't hold it into place anymore.

00:08:02.000 Mm-hmm.

00:08:02.000 So it can come out easily.

00:08:04.000 So if it can come out easily, they don't let you be a cop anymore, and they process you out.

00:08:07.000 And still it can come out easily, right now?

00:08:09.000 Yeah.

00:08:09.000 So it's permanent forever.

00:08:10.000 Yeah, it's permanent. 1.00

00:08:10.000 It's fucked up. 1.00

00:08:11.000 Right. 0.99

00:08:12.000 From moving a desk.

00:08:13.000 Yes.

00:08:13.000 All the crime solving and all that.

00:08:15.000 I know.

00:08:15.000 I don't know what to tell you.

00:08:16.000 It's not the same story.

00:08:17.000 I've got nothing.

00:08:17.000 I have nothing.

00:08:19.000 So you left, and then you decided...

00:08:22.000 How long ago was this?

00:08:24.000 I got injured in like late 2009, but it took time to do the surgeries, try and come back.

00:08:31.000 I mean, I tried to come back.

00:08:32.000 I came back and I was going coded to a call with lights and sirens.

00:08:36.000 Went to turn down a street and the shoulder popped out.

00:08:39.000 So I went up onto the sidewalk because I had to grab it with the other hand and that's why I had to go back in and then they said I need another surgery.

00:08:45.000 Not doing another surgery. 0.99

00:08:46.000 From a fucking turn? 1.00

00:08:47.000 Mm-hmm. 1.00

00:08:48.000 Wow. 1.00

00:08:50.000 Fuck. 1.00

00:08:51.000 You need to go to Cain Velasquez's surgeon. 1.00

00:08:53.000 Fixed that dude up pretty good, I guess.

00:08:56.000 So you decided once you were out, once you knew you were out, you'd done the surgery, you couldn't be a police officer anymore because your shoulder blows out.

00:09:04.000 What made you decide to go public with all this stuff?

00:09:07.000 Well, I've actually talked about this for a long time.

00:09:10.000 When I have, we had a lot of local media and local street reporters and stuff like that that I was friends with on Twitter, and we would talk about these things for the last couple years.

00:09:19.000 We would just go back and forth talking about things.

00:09:21.000 And I had no idea that anybody would pick up on this.

00:09:24.000 I thought I was just going to be talking to the same reporters and the same local group of people that I've been talking to the whole time, so I came back and saw that somebody started paying attention.

00:09:33.000 And what was that like for you?

00:09:35.000 Shocking.

00:09:35.000 Yeah, we were talking about it before the show started, this newfound notoriety, how weird it is.

00:09:42.000 Describe it.

00:09:44.000 When we land in L.A., a guy asked if I was on TV talking about police, and it's like, I don't know, I'm used to being anonymous.

00:09:52.000 So I'm used to just going and minding my own business and not bothering anybody, and then suddenly people know who you are.

00:09:58.000 It's awkward, and especially for what they know who you are, because every time now a cop looks at me, I'm like, oh, come on.

00:10:06.000 I'm the bad guy now, so I can't trust them as well.

00:10:11.000 It makes it kind of stuck in a weird place.

00:10:14.000 So when this most recent Baltimore incident took place, the Freddie Gray incident, the eruption of public attention on police brutality in Baltimore, and the marches, and all the news stories,

00:10:31.000 then people started really paying attention to you.

00:10:33.000 Is that fair to...

00:10:34.000 Yeah, I mean, it seems like that was the case.

00:10:36.000 Maybe somebody had followed me before, and somebody with a powerful retweet, I have no idea.

00:10:41.000 And so, explain how it all went down.

00:10:44.000 Like, how did you become this public figure?

00:10:47.000 I mean, I literally have no comprehension of what happened.

00:10:51.000 I decided that I was just going to talk about some of the things we do, so that it's like, look, this is what we do.

00:10:57.000 Let's not try to pretend that we don't do it.

00:10:59.000 We do it.

00:10:59.000 So it's not about Whether we're going to blame the cops that did it or whether we're going to go back and have retribution, we need to realize that this is what we do.

00:11:10.000 Stop denying it.

00:11:10.000 The black community has been lying for the last 50 years.

00:11:13.000 We need to fix it and in a realistic, scientific way where we have some empathy and treat people like human beings because we don't.

00:11:21.000 What is Baltimore like?

00:11:23.000 My buddy John Rollo lives in Baltimore.

00:11:26.000 Shout out to John Rollo.

00:11:28.000 He listens to the podcast all the time.

00:11:30.000 And the way he describes it is, I mean, I've been there a few times for the UFC, but I haven't, you know, gone into the bad neighborhoods.

00:11:39.000 I didn't watch The Wire.

00:11:41.000 So... 0.95

00:11:42.000 But watching this this whole incident and seeing these people talk about how many times they've been arrested and how many times they've been fucked over by cops and how crazy it is there and how much crime there is there and how much violence there is there What it's like trying to grow up there and become a normal person and what a fucking uphill struggle that is Describe Baltimore to somebody like me. 0.70

00:12:02.000 Okay, so Baltimore like anywhere else is largely good, but it has a microcosm of It's like the prototype for the prison cycle. 0.58

00:12:14.000 So somebody comes up in a neighborhood and they just have no hope and they keep feeding that school to prison cycle over and over and over again.

00:12:22.000 And it has a deep history in Baltimore.

00:12:24.000 So it invades everything.

00:12:25.000 So whether you're talking about...

00:12:28.000 I think that's true.

00:12:46.000 Baltimore, I can't even say how long ago, maybe 100 years ago, and you still have deeds now that say you can't sell the house to an African-American person.

00:12:55.000 So even if you were a doctor there, if you were a black doctor, you couldn't buy a house in a nice white neighborhood 60 years ago. 0.96

00:13:02.000 So you had to still go buy a house in that little area.

00:13:05.000 If you're clustering everybody like that, it just pulls everybody down constantly, constantly, constantly.

00:13:11.000 They're just constantly beat down.

00:13:12.000 There's just no way out.

00:13:14.000 So 60 years ago? 0.94

00:13:15.000 60 years ago you couldn't buy a house if you were a black guy in certain neighborhoods.

00:13:19.000 And was it law?

00:13:21.000 They had this on the books?

00:13:22.000 It was in the deeds.

00:13:23.000 Some of the deeds still have it.

00:13:25.000 What?

00:13:26.000 Still to this day?

00:13:27.000 No court's going to uphold it, but you'll still see it in there.

00:13:30.000 You'll see the language.

00:13:32.000 So if there's a white neighborhood today, there's a possibility that some black person who wants to move into this white neighborhood might encounter some resistance because of this.

00:13:41.000 I don't know if they're gonna counter resistance, but they're gonna see it in the deed.

00:13:44.000 That's gonna make you feel awkward. 1.00

00:13:45.000 Fuck! 1.00

00:13:47.000 Why is it still in there? 1.00

00:13:49.000 Because it's the original D. They keep carrying it over.

00:13:51.000 Why wouldn't they change that?

00:13:53.000 I don't know.

00:13:54.000 I mean, I have no idea why this city is that way.

00:13:56.000 Why these people did these things.

00:13:57.000 It doesn't make sense.

00:13:59.000 Nobody stood objectively.

00:14:00.000 And we created these racist institutions.

00:14:03.000 I mean, they are institutional racism.

00:14:05.000 There's no doubt about it.

00:14:06.000 It's up and down in these urban environments, in these cities.

00:14:08.000 Cleveland, Ferguson, Baltimore, Atlanta.

00:14:11.000 It's irrelevant.

00:14:12.000 They're all the same.

00:14:13.000 All these urban environments, all over Compton, Watts, Inglewood, there's a ton of places like that in LA as well.

00:14:21.000 It's all over the world.

00:14:22.000 I mean, all over the United States, I should say.

00:14:24.000 There's neighborhoods like that that seem almost inescapable.

00:14:27.000 Did you listen to Mau Mau on Radiolab?

00:14:29.000 Yes, I did.

00:14:30.000 Okay.

00:14:30.000 You know how long back that goes.

00:14:32.000 I mean, this is...

00:14:33.000 So we're denying that we have this.

00:14:35.000 So what people are saying, these cops aren't racist.

00:14:38.000 I'm not saying they are racist.

00:14:39.000 What I'm telling you is they're participating in institutionalized racism, just like everybody in Britain was doing back in Kenya with the Mau Mau's, however long ago that was. 0.84

00:14:47.000 That was a long time ago.

00:14:48.000 And you're seeing it come out how it's just the whole thing.

00:14:52.000 If you're participating in it, you're guilty.

00:14:54.000 And that's what I'm telling you.

00:14:55.000 I'm guilty.

00:14:56.000 I participated in it.

00:14:58.000 Is there a way to fix it?

00:15:00.000 Well...

00:15:02.000 The easy thing from the police thing is I think empathy is number one.

00:15:05.000 We have to start treating human beings like they're human beings.

00:15:10.000 We just arrest them, and you throw them in a cage, just like they did with Freddie Gray.

00:15:14.000 And you don't focus on them being somebody's child.

00:15:20.000 Race is a social construct.

00:15:22.000 This is my brother, and I'm doing this to him.

00:15:25.000 It's inconceivable.

00:15:30.000 We've had this conversation a hundred times in this podcast where I have always wondered why is it that we put so much emphasis in trying to repair damage that we've done in other countries, so much emphasis in nation building.

00:15:46.000 So much emphasis in invading places because of whatever perceived threat or whatever natural resource we want to dominate and monopolize, but no emphasis whatsoever in fixing our own inner cities.

00:15:59.000 No emphasis whatsoever in fixing the ghettos. 1.00

00:16:02.000 And just constructing social centers, giving people places that are safe to go to, and somehow or another educating people and lifting them out one by one out of the fucking constant cycle that they're in.

00:16:17.000 This never-ending cycle of poverty and crime. 0.74

00:16:20.000 And being surrounded by it, man...

00:16:24.000 Everyone knows that people imitate their atmosphere.

00:16:27.000 It's just a part of being a human being.

00:16:28.000 That's why accents exist.

00:16:30.000 That's why people in some parts of the world do weird things because everyone around them does it like, you know, weird clothes that they wear, weird rituals, scarring of their face, you know, what have you.

00:16:41.000 We imitate what's around us. 0.75

00:16:43.000 And when you're around a lot of fucking crime and you grow up around a lot of fucking crime and a lot of people with Records, criminal records, and it becomes normal. 0.98

00:16:53.000 And I don't know how to fix that. 0.99

00:16:55.000 And I don't see any effort whatsoever in really engineering some sort of a solution to what these poor, unfortunate people are born into.

00:17:07.000 Well, for police, it's even worse because we're perpetuating that situation.

00:17:11.000 So we're the ones doing that cycle.

00:17:14.000 So when we see a 16...

00:17:15.000 One time I was a chief commander in the Eastern District, and I'm telling my guys, stop pulling over old white ladies. 1.00

00:17:22.000 Stop pulling over that young cute girl. 1.00

00:17:25.000 Stop.

00:17:25.000 We focus on who commits the crimes.

00:17:28.000 And who commits the crimes in Baltimore? 0.69

00:17:29.000 16 to 24 year old black males. 0.97

00:17:31.000 That's who's committing the crimes. 0.99

00:17:32.000 So focus on them.

00:17:34.000 That makes sense.

00:17:35.000 Until you complete the cycle and realize that you started doing that because of institutionalized racism in your organization.

00:17:44.000 And so when you are jacking up those guys in the corner and you do find that dime bag, so you sent him to jail, now he can't go to work the next day, so he loses his job, and then he can't make it to court, so he gets his license suspended, and then he's driving, and then you are focusing...

00:17:58.000 On those 16, 24-year-old black males.

00:17:59.000 So now you're more likely to pull them over.

00:18:01.000 Now you pull him over.

00:18:03.000 Now he has a suspended license.

00:18:04.000 Now he gets his license revoked.

00:18:05.000 And now he can't get to the job legally.

00:18:07.000 And now he's left with selling drugs on the corner.

00:18:11.000 So we're creating it.

00:18:14.000 We have to step back and realize what the facts are and what we're doing.

00:18:17.000 And the number one problem is the drug war.

00:18:19.000 And then we have money and politics.

00:18:21.000 Those are two big issues that we have to solve before we get anywhere.

00:18:25.000 What is the money and politics?

00:18:27.000 How does that play you?

00:18:28.000 So I don't think we can change anything until we stop having politicians that are serving their donors versus serving the people.

00:18:39.000 So somebody that's talking like me is never going to run a police agency as long as all their corporate donors are saying, no, no, no, you keep those animals in the cages, because that's what they do.

00:18:48.000 I mean, that's like a joke in Baltimore that police are actually the zookeepers.

00:18:51.000 You keep everything in and don't let it hit the county.

00:18:53.000 So that's our role.

00:18:55.000 That's what we're doing.

00:18:56.000 So your mayors and your politicians are going to continue to encourage that.

00:19:00.000 They're not going to take a risk and say, all right, how do we lower juvenile possession of marijuana?

00:19:06.000 You know that.

00:19:07.000 I know you do.

00:19:08.000 You know you legalize it.

00:19:09.000 Yeah.

00:19:10.000 And you control it, and rates actually go down.

00:19:12.000 Whether we're overseas or we're in Colorado, your possession rates for marijuana will go down among juveniles.

00:19:18.000 But we don't do that.

00:19:19.000 We keep looking at everything, like we're hammer searching for nails, and we keep looking for what we're going to hit to stop it, instead of standing back and using science and figuring out what are we actually going to do to fix this problem.

00:19:31.000 What will actually have results?

00:19:33.000 This is very rare to hear a cop talk like this.

00:19:36.000 I'm really happy that you're coming forward and speaking like this, but how many people that were with you in the police force are upset about this?

00:19:49.000 My closest friends, I think, understand me.

00:19:51.000 I think the vast majority is upset with me.

00:19:54.000 And they're going to be upset with me because what I'm really trying to do is take power away from them.

00:19:58.000 I mean, I really am.

00:19:59.000 I'm trying to take power from them and give it back to the people because we're supposed to be serving them.

00:20:03.000 We're not supposed to be this occupying force.

00:20:05.000 And this pretty little white boy from the county looks like an... 0.97

00:20:08.000 An occupying force in the city.

00:20:09.000 There's no way around it.

00:20:10.000 So I have to be aware of that and think about that.

00:20:14.000 Think about what I'm doing.

00:20:15.000 Not be an occupying force. 0.92

00:20:17.000 Intentionally actually go out of my way to lift up a situation and de-escalate it and do better than to come in there and be like, you're going to jail, you're going to jail, shut up, let's go.

00:20:25.000 Which is what I did for a long time.

00:20:27.000 So when you say the county, what does that mean?

00:20:30.000 When you say white boy from the county, what's the county?

00:20:33.000 Right, so the suburbs.

00:20:34.000 So in Baltimore, it's kind of weird.

00:20:35.000 It's a little different.

00:20:36.000 So Baltimore is incorporated.

00:20:37.000 So it has nothing to do with the county.

00:20:39.000 So there's like this hard line.

00:20:41.000 So it's not where...

00:20:42.000 The county of what?

00:20:44.000 Baltimore County.

00:20:45.000 Oh, okay.

00:20:45.000 Right, so you have...

00:20:47.000 The city by itself.

00:20:48.000 So here in Los Angeles, you think you have Marina Del Rey, you have Inglewood.

00:20:52.000 All this stuff is LA. In Baltimore, it's just Baltimore.

00:20:56.000 So everything is concentrated and focused.

00:20:59.000 And me coming from the county, I've never spent any time in the city growing up.

00:21:04.000 I come in just straight from the Marine Corps.

00:21:08.000 That's ready to roll.

00:21:09.000 We're going to do our thing.

00:21:10.000 I'm going to put on a different uniform and continue my war. 0.59

00:21:14.000 Wow, so that was why you became a comp.

00:21:18.000 So you came right from the military, and it just seemed like a logical progression.

00:21:22.000 It's a logical progression.

00:21:22.000 I think I went into the Marine Corps to prepare myself.

00:21:25.000 I was a little...

00:21:28.000 Uncontrolled. 0.99

00:21:28.000 And decided to go into the Marine Corps to get my shit together. 0.99

00:21:32.000 Discipline. 0.99

00:21:33.000 So I could get into the police department and everything.

00:21:35.000 And that was always my goal.

00:21:36.000 So your goal was always to be a police officer.

00:21:38.000 Right.

00:21:39.000 And why was that?

00:21:39.000 I don't know.

00:21:40.000 I've said it since I was a little kid.

00:21:41.000 I think you go in with these grandiose ideas that you're going to help people.

00:21:47.000 And maybe that's why I talk.

00:21:48.000 I mean, it's still evolving that I'm saying these things.

00:21:51.000 So you're bringing up a point and maybe that's why I talk.

00:21:53.000 Maybe I feel that.

00:21:55.000 I wasn't doing what I actually set out to do.

00:21:57.000 I was actually exacerbating the situation.

00:22:00.000 So you got caught up in the cycle yourself, the cycle of law enforcement and the way law enforcement behaves in Baltimore, and it just became habitual.

00:22:09.000 Totally.

00:22:10.000 You don't think about it.

00:22:11.000 You just ignore it. 1.00

00:22:12.000 So when I say that I have that suspect that I chased and the guy comes up and kicks him in the face, I think to myself, God, that guy's a fucking asshole. 1.00

00:22:22.000 But not me. 1.00

00:22:24.000 I didn't do it.

00:22:25.000 Right.

00:22:26.000 But I have the responsibility to do something there.

00:22:29.000 That was an assault on an innocent victim.

00:22:31.000 It's not as bad as McKinney, but it's assault on an innocent victim that I should have certainly stepped up and done something about.

00:22:39.000 It's just, you're in it.

00:22:41.000 You don't...

00:22:43.000 I can't explain it how you don't see it until you really just start to slowly step back and say, what are we doing here?

00:22:51.000 We're starting to see more and more videotapes, police stories of police brutality.

00:23:01.000 Do you think this is just a result of cell phones or is the violence escalating or has the violence always been there like this but people are finally finding out about it?

00:23:11.000 I think it's actually de-escalating, the violence.

00:23:13.000 Yeah, I think your cell phones are certainly scaring a lot of cops from doing things, but the only variable here is the proliferation of video cameras.

00:23:24.000 So, as you get more and more cameras, you're seeing more and more, but imagine what it was like before the cameras.

00:23:30.000 Cops know the cameras are there.

00:23:31.000 We've known it for a long time.

00:23:33.000 So, like...

00:23:34.000 Yeah.

00:23:56.000 Well, there's always these guys that you see that you can't even believe they're real humans. 0.99

00:24:00.000 Like that fucking cop in Texas that showed up at the pool party and did the fucking roll like he's Paul Blart mall cop. 1.00

00:24:06.000 Holy fucking shit. 1.00

00:24:08.000 When you find out that that's a real person, you're just like... 1.00

00:24:11.000 So think about that situation.

00:24:13.000 So that's the McKinney situation, where you have a guy assaulting a 14-year-old girl, and that chief still comes out, and still he has that blinder, that blue blinder, where he's saying, there's 11 good cops there. 0.99

00:24:24.000 My ass there are. 0.99

00:24:25.000 There are 12 bad cops there, because he just witnessed an assault on a 14-year-old girl in a bathing suit and did shit about it. 1.00

00:24:31.000 So you have 12 bad cops. 0.98

00:24:33.000 But the reason why I'm talking is because I do think those 11 other ones can be spoken to.

00:24:38.000 I think the guy that comes up and pats him on the back then is like, yo, what are you doing?

00:24:42.000 Why is your gun out?

00:24:43.000 If we keep talking to him, then maybe he'll be able to go talk to two more people.

00:24:47.000 Maybe he'll realize what he's doing.

00:24:49.000 And we can kind of at least on a grassroots level kind of change what police think they're supposed to be versus what we are.

00:24:57.000 We've talked about it on the podcast many times, and I think that it's one of the most difficult jobs that a person can do, and one of the jobs that has the least amount of respect.

00:25:09.000 Cops, like, almost routinely are treated with disrespect, and also, no one thinks about PTSD for cops.

00:25:20.000 People think about it all the time when it comes to soldiers.

00:25:23.000 It's become much more in the public eye, but the amount of stress That's a part of being a police officer.

00:25:30.000 What is that like?

00:25:31.000 When you're going into these bad neighborhoods and you're dealing with murder, when you're dealing with all sorts of different assaults and domestic violence and theft and robbery, what is that like to be a person who deals with that every day?

00:25:46.000 And how much of a factor does that play in these people snapping on people?

00:25:52.000 This is hard for me to say because I don't feel like I had that.

00:25:56.000 I did not find the job stressful on the streets.

00:25:59.000 The greatest enemy was from within.

00:26:01.000 They say that in End of Watch.

00:26:03.000 Don't worry about the street.

00:26:04.000 You gotta worry about what the other officers are doing.

00:26:06.000 I miss that too.

00:26:07.000 I heard it was good.

00:26:08.000 Yeah, it was good.

00:26:10.000 The banter back and forth in that movie is very realistic of what cops act like. 0.98

00:26:14.000 You think cops are all professional, but we're sitting in the car talking about the same things that anybody else talks about, and then you're, oh shit, something's going on. 1.00

00:26:21.000 Mostly pussy, right? 1.00

00:26:24.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:26:25.000 Anyway.

00:26:25.000 So, where were we?

00:26:28.000 We were talking about how stressful it is.

00:26:30.000 Right.

00:26:30.000 It wasn't stressful for me.

00:26:32.000 Are you a weirdo?

00:26:33.000 I don't think so. 0.75

00:26:34.000 I think I built up that wall.

00:26:35.000 Do other people have that wall?

00:26:37.000 Not all of them.

00:26:38.000 I know some of them handle things more personally.

00:26:42.000 So they take that...

00:26:43.000 I don't think we want those people as cops. 0.77

00:26:46.000 I understand it's hard for them.

00:26:47.000 I get that.

00:26:48.000 But the job's not for anybody.

00:26:49.000 You're absolutely right when you say the job is nearly impossible.

00:26:52.000 I think it is impossible to do right.

00:26:55.000 So that's why we have to be more human, so that when we screw up, we can say, look, I screwed up, and this is why.

00:27:02.000 And people will understand where you're coming from.

00:27:04.000 Whereas with Freddie Gray, we obviously screwed up.

00:27:07.000 There's no way around this, but yet we still come out and be like, oh, what?

00:27:10.000 We don't know anything.

00:27:11.000 Wait till the facts are out. 1.00

00:27:12.000 Bullshit! 1.00

00:27:13.000 You had somebody in your possession, and he's dead. 1.00

00:27:15.000 Stop denying it. 0.99

00:27:16.000 Now, what was all the bullshit about him having a neck injury? 0.98

00:27:19.000 That turned out to not be true, right? 1.00

00:27:21.000 Yeah, that was all bullshit. 0.99

00:27:22.000 Was it just something somebody made up online? 1.00

00:27:24.000 Is that what it was?

00:27:24.000 I think he had an old car accident or something like that, and the case had some kind of final disposition that was entered into the court records, but it was harkened back to something a long time ago.

00:27:33.000 So, he died from being slammed up against the wall inside the back of a paddy wagon, right?

00:27:40.000 Correct.

00:27:40.000 That's what happened.

00:27:41.000 And what was he arrested for?

00:27:43.000 Okay, so let's think about, let's put this in real terms.

00:27:46.000 Police always want to put things in legal terms.

00:27:49.000 But you're in a high drug area.

00:27:51.000 A lieutenant sees Freddie Gray, well, allegedly, sees Freddie Gray, recognize him, turn and run.

00:27:59.000 So they chase.

00:28:02.000 They follow him, they catch him, they search him, and do we have a stop and frisk?

00:28:07.000 No.

00:28:08.000 We don't.

00:28:08.000 They didn't document a stop and frisk.

00:28:09.000 So because he's running, does that mean that he's suspicious?

00:28:15.000 Right.

00:28:15.000 So believe it or not, the law says that that's fine.

00:28:19.000 That you can chase him and you can stop him.

00:28:21.000 So my immediate objection with that case, I don't know why I can't think of it off the top of my head, but that case...

00:28:27.000 There's no clarification on how much force is allowed to be used.

00:28:31.000 So in a stop and frisk, you can actually use a legitimate amount of force.

00:28:35.000 But in that situation, the running, I don't really know how much force is allowed to be used there.

00:28:39.000 So I was curious how much force they used, but apparently they didn't use that much force.

00:28:42.000 And they searched him, and they got a knife out of his pocket.

00:28:46.000 So let's stop at this knife.

00:28:47.000 Now, how do we get into the knife?

00:28:50.000 We searched.

00:28:51.000 We went into his pocket.

00:28:52.000 Illegal search.

00:28:53.000 We don't have a stop and frisk.

00:28:54.000 Right.

00:28:54.000 But even if you can somehow justify that, the knife that he has is only illegal if it has an internal spring.

00:29:00.000 So how could you feel whether it had an internal spring or not?

00:29:03.000 And how many white people do you think carry a knife with an internal spring?

00:29:06.000 It's gonna be the same amount, but do any of them ever get arrested?

00:29:09.000 Never. 1.00

00:29:10.000 The internal spring is so fucking stupid. 1.00

00:29:12.000 They have thumb releases for knives now that are easier than a switchblade. 1.00

00:29:18.000 The whole thing is stupid. 1.00

00:29:19.000 So why do you create a law like that? 1.00

00:29:21.000 You create a law like that so you can fuck with the people that you want to fuck with. 1.00

00:29:25.000 That's why we do it. 1.00

00:29:26.000 Because they saw West Side Story.

00:29:28.000 Something like that.

00:29:29.000 They had switchblades back then.

00:29:30.000 And now everybody's scared, right?

00:29:31.000 I had a switchblade in high school.

00:29:32.000 I thought it was a badass.

00:29:34.000 But then I realized, like, it's just a knife.

00:29:36.000 If you have a regular knife, it's like a better tool. 1.00

00:29:39.000 Like, the switchblade's fucking stupid. 1.00

00:29:42.000 Spring breaks, it folds up. 1.00

00:29:45.000 So, this guy had a switchblade?

00:29:47.000 Is that what the deal is?

00:29:48.000 Well, we haven't seen the knife yet.

00:29:49.000 We haven't?

00:29:50.000 They don't even mean a switchblade.

00:29:52.000 What they're saying is, so you have an assistant.

00:29:54.000 So you have a flip-out, and you know how some of them you have to use your whole force?

00:29:57.000 Right.

00:29:58.000 And some of them are assistant.

00:29:59.000 Right.

00:29:59.000 An assistant pocket knife that's this big is illegal in Baltimore.

00:30:05.000 But I assure you that everybody that's been arrested with that is 98% going to be black. 1.00

00:30:11.000 So they use it as an excuse. 0.56

00:30:12.000 Absolutely. 1.00

00:30:13.000 So we can fuck with who we want to fuck with. 1.00

00:30:15.000 It's exactly what we do. 0.99

00:30:16.000 So his knife was essentially like a utility knife that people might have in there.

00:30:19.000 And if you live in a hood, think you might have a knife on you?

00:30:23.000 Probably a good idea.

00:30:23.000 Yeah!

00:30:24.000 So if I would have caught him, I would have probably chased him, because I think he was dealing.

00:30:28.000 Yeah, I would have chased him.

00:30:29.000 Right.

00:30:30.000 But I would have stopped him.

00:30:31.000 He didn't have the drugs on him.

00:30:32.000 He wins.

00:30:33.000 I search him.

00:30:33.000 I probably do take out the knife, but I give it back to him and I say, okay, be safe.

00:30:36.000 Sorry about that.

00:30:37.000 And we're good.

00:30:38.000 We're playing the game.

00:30:39.000 We know.

00:30:40.000 Did it bug you that you were looking for drugs? 0.95

00:30:43.000 Did that ever, like, go, what the fuck am I doing being some sort of a glorified revenue collector for the state, pulling people over for drugs? 0.95

00:30:54.000 Yeah, you're totally right. 0.84

00:30:55.000 There is no point in any consensual adult agreements to fight against them.

00:31:00.000 But my whole point is to keep it real. 0.98

00:31:04.000 It was fucking fun! 0.99

00:31:05.000 It was fun. 1.00

00:31:06.000 It was fucking great! 0.99

00:31:07.000 Fun to catch him? 0.99

00:31:07.000 Yes! 0.99

00:31:08.000 I lived for the car chase!

00:31:09.000 I mean, think about this.

00:31:11.000 Think about if you're in a police car, and you have the lights and sirens, and you're going down, like, Coastal Highway, or you're going down your favorite 101, or whatever it is, and you're going through your side roads, and you're chasing this guy.

00:31:22.000 There is no adrenaline rush that's ever compared to that.

00:31:25.000 You live for it.

00:31:26.000 It's incredible.

00:31:27.000 It's amazing.

00:31:29.000 And you don't really...

00:31:31.000 I! I didn't really care why!

00:31:33.000 Give me the car chase. 0.83

00:31:35.000 It was amazing.

00:31:36.000 That's so refreshingly honest.

00:31:38.000 I'm so glad you're talking like this because I've always thought that too.

00:31:41.000 I always felt like it must be exciting for them.

00:31:43.000 God, it's amazing. 1.00

00:31:44.000 Like a fucking cheetah chasing a gazelle. 1.00

00:31:46.000 Right. 0.99

00:31:46.000 I have three good stories we can tell later on that, I mean, it's just like, oh, you can understand if you're in that situation. 0.99

00:31:51.000 Is that one of the reasons why so many cops shoot people?

00:31:55.000 It's like the idea of the rush of being in a gunfight, the rush of finding someone who deserves to get shot.

00:32:02.000 You know, it's like when you're hunting, right?

00:32:05.000 You know, you see animals that you're not supposed to shoot. 1.00

00:32:08.000 But I swear to God, there's a part of your fucking brain that wants to shoot a squirrel. 1.00

00:32:12.000 It was like a 300 Win Mag. 1.00

00:32:13.000 You don't do it, but there's a part of your brain, like, you have a rifle, you're looking through the crosshairs, squirrel doesn't even know you're there.

00:32:21.000 You don't do it, but there's a part of you that wants to, and I'm like, why does that even exist?

00:32:25.000 Because people like hitting targets.

00:32:27.000 The same reason why you like going to the range and shooting at those steel targets.

00:32:32.000 Like, why do you, because people like hitting things with guns, because you have a gun, like you said, when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

00:32:39.000 And when you're in your cop car, And someone takes off, whether or not it makes sense to chase them, it must feel like the right thing to do, right?

00:32:49.000 Like, your instincts.

00:32:50.000 I'm going to go with you on the car chase.

00:32:52.000 I'm not going to go with you on the shooting.

00:32:54.000 For, like, was I looking for the target?

00:32:59.000 Yeah, I was.

00:33:00.000 You know, if I had a guy with a knife, I was sitting there, I was telling him, put it down, put it down.

00:33:05.000 But in my head, I'm cut off. 1.00

00:33:07.000 You want him to come out and shoot him? 1.00

00:33:09.000 Yeah! 1.00

00:33:09.000 I'm a fucking cop! 1.00

00:33:09.000 I'm going out there, you know? 1.00

00:33:11.000 It's like, this is what you do!

00:33:12.000 But...

00:33:14.000 But you had a line.

00:33:15.000 Yeah, and I wasn't going to cross it.

00:33:16.000 I certainly wasn't going to cross it.

00:33:17.000 I was ready to shoot if I had to, but I was never going to cross that line.

00:33:20.000 But you kind of wanted to shoot. 0.54

00:33:22.000 Sure!

00:33:22.000 Wow.

00:33:23.000 I mean, I come from the Marine Corps.

00:33:25.000 Right.

00:33:25.000 I was in FAST team.

00:33:27.000 Right.

00:33:27.000 This is what I did.

00:33:28.000 I was trained from 17. I went to the Marine Corps at 17. I was handled a rifle in boot camp, and I went into special ops, and I was trained day in and day out to kill.

00:33:39.000 That's the honest truth.

00:33:40.000 And then I have to transition into bringing that skill set into the police department where, luckily, I was able to separate myself and it wasn't an issue for me.

00:33:49.000 But I don't think that's where the shootings come from.

00:33:51.000 I'm pretty convinced that your military members actually won't shoot.

00:33:55.000 I'm convinced that the shootings come from fear.

00:33:57.000 Ah, that makes a lot of sense.

00:33:59.000 So the military members have more discipline, they've been through real war, and they understand shooting and death better.

00:34:08.000 Yeah, I think you just understand the rules of engagement better. 0.98

00:34:11.000 Whereas the people that come from civilian life and, you know, there's a fucking video of this guy who's this big fat slob who's a cop and he's trying to... 1.00

00:34:21.000 Get a hold of this guy and the guy winds up beating his ass and there's like this chaos thing running around. 0.99

00:34:26.000 But I'm looking at that guy and I'm like, this guy does not, there's no way this guy should be a fucking law enforcement officer. 0.99

00:34:32.000 He's just way too out of shape. 0.99

00:34:35.000 He's just way too undisciplined.

00:34:37.000 His body is just not serving him correctly, and he's involved in physical altercations with criminals.

00:34:45.000 And to be a person that is in day-to-day contact with people that may or may not want to kill you, you have to have a certain amount of awareness, and you have to have a certain amount of physical ability.

00:34:58.000 Yeah, and you have to trust those abilities.

00:35:00.000 You have to realize that you're going to be able to handle that situation.

00:35:03.000 I think it's easier in a city than it would be for a Pennsylvania State Trooper or something.

00:35:07.000 I don't know what I would do in their shoes, and they're stuck out in the middle of nowhere by themselves.

00:35:11.000 In a city, all you got to do is hold on for 30 seconds.

00:35:13.000 You're going to get help.

00:35:14.000 But how they do it in those environments...

00:35:17.000 Baffling to me, but they don't get into a lot of shootings as much as urban environments because I think it's that fear, but I think as a nation we fear the black man. 0.99

00:35:27.000 He's the demon. 0.97

00:35:28.000 So you saw that in Mike Brown when that cop says, oh, he had a demon's look in his eye.

00:35:32.000 A demon's look in his eye?

00:35:33.000 What are you talking about?

00:35:34.000 Do you ever see anybody say that Dylann Roof, oh, he looked like he had a demon look in his eye?

00:35:39.000 They don't say that.

00:35:39.000 They say, oh, this troubled youth.

00:35:41.000 But the black guy is the demon. 1.00

00:35:42.000 So we have that in our society that that's the criminal. 1.00

00:35:45.000 So that's who we're looking at and that's who we're fearing. 1.00

00:35:48.000 We're fearing the black man raping our daughters. 1.00

00:35:50.000 We're fearing that. 1.00

00:35:51.000 Whether we want to face it or not as a nation, it's real.

00:35:54.000 And we have to face it if we want to learn how to police properly and we actually want to get our nation back to where it is. 0.96

00:35:59.000 And we tear down these borders, these things that we do, these social constructs, your flags, your Whether we have a line down at Mexico so that they can't come over here, and we don't help them, and we have our states, and we do all this, oh, there's so much dumb shit that we just make up to separate ourselves, but there's no difference. 0.92

00:36:16.000 He's got more melatonin than I do. 0.97

00:36:17.000 Wonderful.

00:36:18.000 Whatever.

00:36:19.000 They're just human beings.

00:36:20.000 Yeah, I mean, we're all the same.

00:36:21.000 We know this.

00:36:21.000 Scientifically, we know this.

00:36:23.000 I agree with you on that, but the guy that shot the people in Colorado, that was one of the first things they said, is that he looked possessed.

00:36:31.000 His eyes were...

00:36:32.000 I mean, I absolutely agree with you that there's institutionalized racism.

00:36:36.000 I absolutely agree with you.

00:36:37.000 But I think anytime someone becomes a school shooter or... 0.58

00:36:40.000 I mean, they treat that person like they're some psychopathic maniac.

00:36:44.000 Yeah, I'll concede that. 0.77

00:36:46.000 Did you get into altercations where you had to shoot people?

00:36:49.000 I could have pulled the trigger justifiably quite a few times.

00:36:52.000 But you never did.

00:36:53.000 No, no.

00:36:53.000 So you went 11 years in Baltimore, in the city, and you didn't have to shoot anybody.

00:36:58.000 No, no, no.

00:36:59.000 I can't.

00:37:00.000 I mean, I know of two that happened pretty close to me that were completely clean shootings.

00:37:07.000 And again, it was an ex-Marine.

00:37:08.000 Maybe I'm being biased.

00:37:09.000 I don't know.

00:37:10.000 Well, it makes sense to me.

00:37:11.000 I don't think you're being biased at all.

00:37:13.000 I would want someone...

00:37:14.000 First of all, it's...

00:37:16.000 A logical progression.

00:37:17.000 If someone is looking for a good job and they get out of the military, it's a logical progression. 0.99

00:37:22.000 I would trust military members more than I would trust a civilian who's never seen any real gunfire or any real shit.

00:37:29.000 You know, someone who has never experienced any sort of altercation like that and all of a sudden being thrust into it, you just gotta hope they can keep it together. 0.95

00:37:38.000 I know some people can, but a lot of people can't.

00:37:42.000 Someone who's been through the Marines, someone who's been through Anything, a Navy SEAL, someone who's been through war, that person, in my eyes, is a much more qualified candidate than the average person.

00:37:54.000 It makes sense.

00:37:55.000 So when you're talking to me and you're saying that you had a certain amount of discipline and you had a certain...

00:38:00.000 But you're also being very honest about you wanted them to come at you.

00:38:05.000 Which I think is a natural human instinct.

00:38:07.000 I think it's very important that you're talking like this.

00:38:08.000 I really do.

00:38:09.000 Because I think there's a lot of people that would shy away from talking like that.

00:38:13.000 Especially someone who's still out of a career in law enforcement.

00:38:16.000 You know?

00:38:17.000 I think my hopes for resuming a career in law enforcement are probably over. 0.99

00:38:22.000 Yeah, unless someone comes along and listens to this with an open mind and realizes, no, this fucking guy is exactly what we need. 0.98

00:38:30.000 And I think that is exactly what we need. 0.99

00:38:32.000 We need people like you.

00:38:33.000 And we need people like you who other people are going to listen to and say, well, here's a guy who's on our side.

00:38:39.000 Here's a guy who's not a racist.

00:38:41.000 Here's a guy who's not just looking to shoot people and lock people up. 0.99

00:38:44.000 Here's a guy who really came into this job wanting to help and experienced a bunch of fucking chaos. 0.99

00:38:51.000 It's chaos. 0.99

00:38:52.000 There's no other better word for it. 0.99

00:38:54.000 The biggest shit show you'll see is going to an urban environment and being thrust in that because it's not just a street. 0.99

00:39:01.000 It's internal as well. 1.00

00:39:03.000 The whole thing is a big clusterfuck of mismanagement.

00:39:06.000 And no one's caring about what we actually need to do. 0.99

00:39:10.000 We need to end the damn drug war. 0.99

00:39:11.000 This is ridiculous that we're doing this. 0.99

00:39:13.000 So that's most of what you're arresting people for?

00:39:16.000 Oh gosh, I don't...

00:39:18.000 Is it all of it?

00:39:20.000 90?

00:39:20.000 90%?

00:39:21.000 Jesus fucking Christ, how crazy is that? 1.00

00:39:24.000 How crazy is that? 1.00

00:39:25.000 90%?

00:39:26.000 That's all that matters there, is guns and drugs.

00:39:28.000 Guns and drugs.

00:39:29.000 Guns and drugs.

00:39:30.000 Guns and drugs.

00:39:30.000 And guns probably are there so they can sell drugs and defend themselves.

00:39:34.000 And defend themselves, right.

00:39:35.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:39:35.000 Fucking A, man. 1.00

00:39:36.000 What a crazy, crazy situation. 1.00

00:39:39.000 Just a bizarre police state set up by the fact that drugs are illegal.

00:39:48.000 Man.

00:39:49.000 It does.

00:39:50.000 I mean, it invades the entire thing.

00:39:52.000 So, we saw what happened with alcohol, right?

00:39:57.000 So, gangs, take over, and you have violence.

00:40:01.000 Do you want to lower the violence?

00:40:02.000 Isn't that the mission of the police?

00:40:03.000 Do you want to lower the violence?

00:40:04.000 Then every single chief out there needs to be saying, hey, we need to end this drug war.

00:40:08.000 Stop it.

00:40:08.000 Yeah, how many cops are saying that we need to stop bars?

00:40:11.000 How about none?

00:40:12.000 They're a single bar, you know.

00:40:14.000 That's what causes all the fighting.

00:40:16.000 We all know that if they were all sitting around smoking, nothing would have happened. 0.99

00:40:19.000 Yeah, but also, I support their right to get fucked up if they want. 0.99

00:40:23.000 You know, I've been drunk a lot. 0.99

00:40:26.000 I've never hurt anybody never never did anything fucked up never caused any crimes never hurt anybody never You know, I just don't think that Human I think human beings should be able to do whatever the fuck they want.

00:40:39.000 I think when you when you violate Somehow or another you violate either other people's rights or other people's safety or other people's health and welfare, then it becomes a real issue and you should be prosecuted based on whatever transgressions you've committed.

00:40:54.000 Right, so don't you agree then that the drug war distracts you from actually being a real police?

00:41:00.000 100%.

00:41:00.000 Totally turned you away from it.

00:41:01.000 What kind of relationship did you have with the people in Baltimore, your area?

00:41:07.000 Did you develop friendships?

00:41:09.000 Did you develop any sort of connection with those folks?

00:41:12.000 None.

00:41:12.000 I was an occupying force.

00:41:13.000 I handled my stuff and I went out.

00:41:16.000 So to know you, if you were in my neighborhood, I would have to stop and talk to you.

00:41:20.000 I'd have to spend time with you.

00:41:22.000 I may even have to talk to your kids. 1.00

00:41:24.000 We could shoot the shit on the corner or something like that. 0.99

00:41:27.000 But the whole time I'm doing that, the departments are going to actually be criticizing me and saying I'm not doing my job. 0.99

00:41:34.000 Because you're not writing tickets or you're not pulling people over.

00:41:38.000 You're not meeting your quotas.

00:41:41.000 I'm not getting my stats.

00:41:42.000 I'm not making the arrests that I need to make.

00:41:44.000 So I came out of the academy and went and walked foot where Freddie Gray is in the Gilmore Homes.

00:41:51.000 So that was my first foray.

00:41:53.000 So I got solidified into this us versus them.

00:41:55.000 You threw me right into the biggest war zone we had.

00:41:57.000 On foot.

00:41:58.000 On foot.

00:41:59.000 Who were you with?

00:42:00.000 Another trainee that had no idea what the hell he was doing either.

00:42:03.000 We would team up with two others.

00:42:05.000 So you're playing cops?

00:42:06.000 Right.

00:42:06.000 We were totally playing.

00:42:08.000 Wow.

00:42:08.000 And we were doing all drug arrests.

00:42:10.000 So we would go up and we would go in covert and into the projects because the projects had heat and it was winter time so you could break into one of the doors and it had heat in it and then you could watch...

00:42:21.000 What happened in the courtyard and people would sell and one of us would run down out of the room, circle around.

00:42:28.000 So you would go and break into a room because it had heat in it?

00:42:32.000 Right, because they're projects.

00:42:33.000 The heat stays on.

00:42:35.000 So it'd be a vacant house.

00:42:38.000 A vacant apartment.

00:42:39.000 Right, yeah, and the heat would be on.

00:42:41.000 Did you pick the lock or just kick in the door?

00:42:42.000 No, you could always find a way in.

00:42:43.000 Just pick a lock, you could get a key.

00:42:45.000 There was always a way in.

00:42:45.000 Someone else usually already did it for you.

00:42:47.000 Right.

00:42:48.000 And we would watch them, and my first arrest, I went down there and grabbed him, and the first thing he said was, these aren't my pants.

00:42:56.000 He knew he had the drugs in him.

00:42:57.000 So he was wearing pants?

00:42:59.000 These aren't my pants?

00:43:00.000 That's the first guy you arrested?

00:43:02.000 That's hilarious. 1.00

00:43:03.000 Boy, did you know you were in for a fucking world of weirdness? 0.99

00:43:07.000 What a great way to start off a career. 0.99

00:43:09.000 That's like the perfect way.

00:43:11.000 The first guy you arrest says, these are not my pants.

00:43:13.000 The first thing to say, I grab his arm.

00:43:16.000 So I go there, and I go to the southern, which is an area where you would be fascinated there.

00:43:22.000 I'm just going to be blatantly honest, because that's the whole point of this. 0.98

00:43:25.000 You have a black ghetto, you have white trash, for the most part, and then you have this cluster next to it of really good people. 1.00

00:43:33.000 Doctors, lawyers, just regular people in that area that are nice, and they... 0.99

00:43:38.000 Mingle together and it's it's chaos.

00:43:40.000 So I go from that...

00:43:41.000 How's it chaos?

00:43:43.000 Because College kids that are going to University of Maryland think that they can just walk down the street into the bad neighborhood and everything will be fine They think they could drink and walk down the street and nothing's gonna happen to them The the and what does happen?

00:43:56.000 They're gonna get robbed They know it we know they didn't know it we know it was like hey, what are you doing?

00:44:01.000 Don't do that The whites in the neighborhood, you would have a really hard time figuring out your reports because you were supposed to put in who the person's relationship was. 1.00

00:44:12.000 And you're like, wait.

00:44:13.000 Is it your cousin?

00:44:14.000 Is that...

00:44:15.000 Wait.

00:44:16.000 So he's your cousin and your uncle.

00:44:17.000 This isn't making sense.

00:44:19.000 So what block do I put?

00:44:20.000 The guy that did it, was he your cousin?

00:44:23.000 Or, no.

00:44:24.000 He was your uncle?

00:44:25.000 He's like, no.

00:44:26.000 And everything was all together.

00:44:28.000 So, like, there's so much inbreeding.

00:44:30.000 Really?

00:44:31.000 That you actually, you would have these crazy things.

00:44:34.000 That you would have Hispanics that came in and were trying to... 0.98

00:44:39.000 Come up themselves.

00:44:40.000 It would all just go together.

00:44:42.000 It's chaos.

00:44:42.000 You can go there right now, and it's just a crazy societal testbed of everybody coming together from these entirely different backgrounds.

00:44:49.000 And there's real inbreeding?

00:44:51.000 Yeah.

00:44:52.000 It's like super common?

00:44:53.000 Everybody knows it, yeah.

00:44:54.000 Really? 1.00

00:44:55.000 What the fuck? 1.00

00:44:57.000 So, I go from there, and I go to- So inbreeding's like, you run into that every day? 1.00

00:45:03.000 Not every day.

00:45:04.000 Once a week?

00:45:05.000 Yeah, maybe.

00:45:05.000 If you're working there.

00:45:07.000 Hey, man.

00:45:08.000 So I go from there and I go to the Northern District, which is this area called Mount Washington.

00:45:13.000 Mount Washington is an upper class, 80% to 90% white.

00:45:18.000 You have judges that live there.

00:45:20.000 You have nice houses, $400,000, $500,000 houses.

00:45:25.000 And now I'm in this environment. 0.98

00:45:27.000 And it's like, holy shit, where am I? I'm in Whiteland now. 0.98

00:45:30.000 I have this road that's called Cross Country Boulevard, and it has a stream next to it.

00:45:34.000 What the hell am I doing here?

00:45:36.000 So I'm expected to get the same amount of arrests, and I'm expected to write the tickets.

00:45:40.000 So I have bosses that are telling me, like, you're not doing anything.

00:45:44.000 What am I supposed to do?

00:45:45.000 I'm in a good neighborhood.

00:45:46.000 What do I do? 0.98

00:45:47.000 So I would leave my area, go to the black neighborhoods, and make drug arrests. 1.00

00:45:53.000 So that I could appease my bosses with my arrest numbers.

00:45:57.000 So you're continuing that cycle.

00:45:59.000 Once again, I'm leaving that area to go poach and specifically continue that cycle.

00:46:06.000 And I'm doing it because that's what I'm supposed to be doing.

00:46:09.000 So, if you were in a place that had no crime, you would get in trouble?

00:46:14.000 Yeah.

00:46:15.000 My one sergeant had to defend me constantly, because I went to a post in that same district where I started bringing the crime numbers down, but I didn't have the arrests.

00:46:24.000 And he had to defend me to his bosses, saying, like, look, he hasn't had a serious crime in a long time.

00:46:32.000 That's his job.

00:46:33.000 And I was getting criticized the whole time because I didn't have as many arrests.

00:46:36.000 Yeah, that's like the ultimate goal, right, is to have no crime.

00:46:39.000 Shouldn't that be the metric?

00:46:39.000 That should be.

00:46:40.000 It's not a metric.

00:46:41.000 But if we all had no crime, like I've often proposed this, like if we had a moratorium on crime, if the whole country got together and said, alright, no one for the next month, we can go 30 days without speeding, 30 days without illegal turns,

00:46:57.000 30 days without any violent crime, 30 days without any theft, what would happen?

00:47:03.000 We'd probably make some up.

00:47:05.000 You'd make up some crimes.

00:47:06.000 Of course they would. 0.99

00:47:07.000 Just to arrest black people, probably, right? 1.00

00:47:09.000 That would be what reality is. 0.99

00:47:11.000 But that's what we should be.

00:47:13.000 So, like, my liberal idea of policing would be to empower that officer that's on the street.

00:47:19.000 So even if there wasn't crime, then what he would really be doing is making sure that the alley was cleaned up, solving problems that are in the neighborhood.

00:47:27.000 So whatever the problem could possibly be, you know, there's this guy that constantly parks on this corner and the street sweeper can't get it.

00:47:33.000 Well, fix all those problems.

00:47:35.000 So even if you don't have crime, the peace officer, the protector, should still have plenty of things to do.

00:47:42.000 So it shouldn't be just crime.

00:47:44.000 Crime should be an element of what police do.

00:47:47.000 Did you have to pull over people and write tickets for speeding and shit like that? 0.66

00:47:51.000 No. 0.89

00:47:52.000 Baltimore doesn't care about that.

00:47:53.000 They don't care?

00:47:53.000 No.

00:47:54.000 You could just drive crazy?

00:47:55.000 Yeah, pretty much.

00:47:56.000 Really?

00:47:56.000 Yeah, there's no traffic cops or anything like that in the city.

00:47:59.000 What?

00:48:00.000 Yeah, it just doesn't work that way.

00:48:03.000 What?

00:48:04.000 There's no traffic cops?

00:48:05.000 I mean, maybe a district here or there might have one guy that kind of primarily does traffic, but it's just patrol officers are expected to handle traffic.

00:48:14.000 And again, remember, I'm not being judged on that.

00:48:17.000 So why would I care?

00:48:19.000 So my car stop, the only reason I do a car stop is to get guns or drugs.

00:48:22.000 Maybe a warrant. 0.64

00:48:24.000 So you'd run a plate?

00:48:26.000 Right, right.

00:48:27.000 And the guy has a warrant, driver has a warrant, then yeah, I'm gonna do that.

00:48:30.000 So I'm not gonna do it unless I have a possibility of an arrest.

00:48:33.000 I'm not gonna sit there and write bullcrap tickets. 0.80

00:48:36.000 Did you arrest the same guys more than once?

00:48:39.000 Yeah, yeah, plenty of times, especially when I was doing narcotics.

00:48:41.000 So after I went from the Northern, I went to a unit called the Violent Crime Impact Division, and I was like playing clothes, got to have the tats out and be all tough and run around like you're, you know, they're called knockers in the city.

00:48:53.000 And So from there, you're dealing with the same street-level dealers all the time.

00:48:58.000 And one of those kids actually really struck me.

00:49:03.000 So a great irony that I had in doing drug work is usually drug work sends you deeper into it.

00:49:09.000 And it actually pulled me out.

00:49:11.000 Because I would interview these guys in the little rooms, and this one guy, Daniel Taylor, is the one I'm specifically remembering, and he was just a marijuana dealer, and he had a kid, and he was struggling to have this kid. 0.99

00:49:24.000 He was young, he was trying to help, but he had gotten locked up a lot when he was younger, so he was selling weed to just buy diapers for his kid, and he would tell me his stories, and we would be there, and he would be crying, and it was just like, fuck! 0.98

00:49:36.000 There's no difference between this kid and me. 0.99

00:49:38.000 There's nothing. 0.96

00:49:38.000 The only difference between this kid and me Is that when I had a dime bag in my pocket, there wasn't a fucking chance in hell someone was going to look. 0.96

00:49:45.000 But him, he was going to get caught eventually. 0.92

00:49:48.000 And it sent him into that spiral.

00:49:50.000 And this could have been a good kid.

00:49:52.000 And I wouldn't be surprised if he was still in jail now.

00:49:55.000 And there was just nothing wrong with him.

00:49:56.000 We...

00:49:56.000 Our whole system created a criminal out of a decent kid.

00:50:02.000 It was shocking to me.

00:50:04.000 Like, I... Like, I knew...

00:50:06.000 I was following the rules, and so I had to arrest him.

00:50:09.000 I had to finish this up because I was doing what I was supposed to be doing.

00:50:12.000 But it was kind of heartbreaking to start to see that these people, they didn't...

00:50:17.000 They weren't different than us.

00:50:18.000 They just had a different environment than us.

00:50:20.000 And we should be changing that environment, not changing them.

00:50:23.000 So you felt this...

00:50:24.000 So let me...

00:50:26.000 Back up a bit.

00:50:28.000 Going into this district and this new position, why were you allowed to wear regular clothes?

00:50:34.000 And what was the idea?

00:50:34.000 You're supposed to blend in?

00:50:35.000 Is that the idea?

00:50:36.000 Yeah, so you're supposed to have an advantage to sneak up and all that.

00:50:39.000 So I have to tell a quick funny story about that.

00:50:41.000 But you're a white guy.

00:50:42.000 Yeah, this is a really good story.

00:50:44.000 I appreciate it.

00:50:44.000 Okay.

00:50:45.000 So, that's always a struggle.

00:50:47.000 So the tattoos help.

00:50:49.000 Blackface? 0.85

00:50:49.000 No. 0.85

00:50:50.000 No?

00:50:50.000 Stop it.

00:50:51.000 Why is that bad?

00:50:52.000 I don't understand it.

00:50:54.000 I really don't.

00:50:55.000 Go ahead.

00:50:56.000 So the tats were out.

00:50:57.000 I had a red Mazda 6 with tenant windows, Virginia tags, cut off sleeves, was rolling down thinking I was...

00:51:06.000 Blending in.

00:51:06.000 This is it.

00:51:07.000 I look like I'm some buying.

00:51:08.000 This is gonna be anything.

00:51:09.000 Do you consider maybe like carving a lightning bolt in your hair? 0.72

00:51:12.000 I should have done something crazy.

00:51:13.000 Yeah.

00:51:13.000 To look a little more like I was out there buying.

00:51:16.000 Like you're transracial, perhaps?

00:51:19.000 I'm not opening that can either.

00:51:21.000 Why are the cans already open?

00:51:23.000 You don't even have to dig in.

00:51:25.000 It's overflowing.

00:51:26.000 I don't have an opinion on that.

00:51:27.000 I'm so happy that girl's alive.

00:51:29.000 I'm so happy this debate is on.

00:51:31.000 It gives you fodder.

00:51:32.000 Well, yes, I'm a fan of human folly. 0.98

00:51:36.000 So, you're rolling around like a white guy sticking out like a sore thumb. 0.96

00:51:40.000 Thinking I wasn't.

00:51:42.000 And I turned the corner and literally, like a four-year-old boy, he's like, yo, there are them knockers right there. 0.99

00:51:49.000 Fuck, this is as good as I get. 0.99

00:51:51.000 This is all I have. 1.00

00:51:52.000 And I still couldn't blend in.

00:51:54.000 So what was the point?

00:51:55.000 There wasn't one.

00:51:56.000 So they knew that there's a position that cops get into where they're allowed to dress like normal people.

00:52:03.000 We're called knockers in Baltimore.

00:52:05.000 And you're called knockers by the police department as well, or just by the civilians?

00:52:10.000 No, by the civilians.

00:52:11.000 And why do you think they're called knockers?

00:52:13.000 Obvious answer.

00:52:15.000 Why?

00:52:15.000 Knock heads.

00:52:16.000 That's what you do.

00:52:16.000 Oh, I see.

00:52:17.000 You run the street.

00:52:17.000 You're the force.

00:52:18.000 You're the enforcement team.

00:52:20.000 So that's actually what it was called, the enforcement team.

00:52:21.000 We went out there and stamped down the drug.

00:52:24.000 Is there pressure to be intimidating?

00:52:27.000 You must.

00:52:28.000 Yes.

00:52:29.000 You must be intimidating.

00:52:30.000 I wouldn't survive.

00:52:32.000 So you can look at me, and you can think of me being in the wire.

00:52:37.000 And Jamie, would I have survived?

00:52:38.000 No.

00:52:39.000 If I was not intimidating?

00:52:40.000 No.

00:52:41.000 No, I wouldn't have survived.

00:52:42.000 I need to watch the wire. 0.99

00:52:43.000 God damn it. 0.99

00:52:44.000 So, like, a technique is actually to find one of the biggest, baddest dudes in your area. 1.00

00:52:49.000 And kick his ass? 1.00

00:52:50.000 Punk him. 1.00

00:52:51.000 Punk him?

00:52:52.000 Yeah, you have to.

00:52:53.000 Do you use weapons?

00:52:54.000 Or how do you do it?

00:52:55.000 No, no, no.

00:52:55.000 You're gonna arrest him for something.

00:52:57.000 You're gonna be a little rough with him.

00:52:59.000 Uh-huh.

00:52:59.000 You're gonna do something to...

00:53:01.000 Because he's the kink dog in that neighborhood. 1.00

00:53:04.000 Right.

00:53:05.000 So you have to assume the alpha role.

00:53:07.000 If you don't do that, you're going to get run over.

00:53:09.000 A lot of cops don't do it. 0.84

00:53:10.000 But if you don't do that, you are not going to survive in a drug unit for sure.

00:53:13.000 You're going to get trampled.

00:53:14.000 Why do you survive if you do do it?

00:53:17.000 I would think you're making an enemy.

00:53:18.000 Yeah, it's a battle.

00:53:19.000 It's a war.

00:53:20.000 It's what it is.

00:53:21.000 It's a drug war.

00:53:22.000 Don't be fooled if that's what it is.

00:53:23.000 That's what we've created.

00:53:25.000 So it's us versus them. 0.85

00:53:26.000 And if I'm going to be ahead, I have to be the alpha dog, right? 0.97

00:53:30.000 You know, I've never, obviously, never been a cop, but I worked as a security guard for a while at this concert place, and one of the things that I recognized really early on was that there was a us-versus-them mentality just from fucking security guards at a concert place. 0.96

00:53:44.000 And I would imagine the us-versus-them between cops and the people on the street gets pretty fucking intense. 0.82

00:53:52.000 Pretty big division. 0.98

00:53:55.000 And that is how you can have a black officer who's participating in a racist organization, just like anybody else. 0.50

00:54:00.000 Did you have a lot of black officers you worked with?

00:54:02.000 Oh, Baltimore's about...

00:54:03.000 It's about even.

00:54:05.000 Wow.

00:54:06.000 So...

00:54:06.000 But there's no difference.

00:54:08.000 Maybe even the black officers are a little bit more aggressive. 1.00

00:54:10.000 I have a theory on that, but... 0.94

00:54:11.000 Well, that was an Ice-T thing.

00:54:13.000 Ice-T used to talk about that in the songs. 0.96

00:54:16.000 I think that's what they've always felt, that there was black cops that made up for the fact that they were black by being extra brutal. 0.94

00:54:24.000 Yeah, that's what they thought. 0.80

00:54:24.000 I don't actually think that that's why. 0.80

00:54:26.000 It's conjecture on my part, but I think that's because they're actually...

00:54:31.000 They feel embarrassed that those people... 0.99

00:54:35.000 They feel like the black criminals are making them black... 1.00

00:54:39.000 Race, the black community, look bad. 1.00

00:54:41.000 So they're kind of like extra angry, whereas I'm not gonna be angry because I don't care. 0.96

00:54:46.000 Oh, I see.

00:54:47.000 Huh.

00:54:47.000 Maybe it could be a little bit of both.

00:54:49.000 Yeah.

00:54:49.000 Or either or.

00:54:50.000 Sure, certainly.

00:54:50.000 For different people.

00:54:51.000 Wow. 1.00

00:54:52.000 What the fuck, dude? 1.00

00:54:54.000 What a crazy life you lived. 1.00

00:54:56.000 Yeah, I didn't think about it like that at the time. 0.99

00:54:58.000 Right, but now, being out of it, how long did it take before you realized how fucking crazy it was?

00:55:02.000 It started when I was in but it started with like talking to that kid that was right and then I would also sit in covert and watch so you'll love this one time I was We were doing a long investigation and I had this vacant building that I would hide in a homeless dude was there and homeless dude would like leave magazines for me and then like I would come in during the day and he would come in at night It was the weirdest exchange.

00:55:23.000 We never crossed paths though He would leave magazines for you?

00:55:26.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:55:27.000 Like what, Cop Monthly?

00:55:28.000 No, no, no, it wasn't Cop Monthly.

00:55:29.000 He'd leave Playboy or he'd leave...

00:55:31.000 High Times?

00:55:31.000 Yeah, High Times, something like that, whatever he had.

00:55:33.000 And he knew I was there, I knew he was there, but we never actually crossed paths.

00:55:37.000 But they had a...

00:55:37.000 So he left them for you, though?

00:55:39.000 Yeah, yeah, we both knew we were there.

00:55:42.000 There was a big huge picture of Jesus filling the window.

00:55:46.000 And so I carved out Jesus' eyes and I would stand behind him.

00:55:49.000 And that's how I watched.

00:55:51.000 So it had like this double meaning.

00:55:54.000 Jesus Christ.

00:55:55.000 So I was actually standing behind him watching all the drug dealers on the investigation.

00:56:00.000 But while I would watch all these investigations like that, you would see everything for what it was and not for your perceptions because you were there for so long.

00:56:10.000 So I would see the dealer sitting there, but then I would see him take care of his kid.

00:56:15.000 I would see him sit down and make food.

00:56:17.000 I would hear the other people in the neighborhood talking about their lives and hearing the sounds, smelling the smells, and realizing that...

00:56:26.000 This wasn't a war. 0.61

00:56:27.000 This is ridiculous that we were doing this.

00:56:29.000 This was not the enemy.

00:56:30.000 This was a socio-economic problem that we had to deal with, but this isn't the enemy.

00:56:34.000 We are not at war.

00:56:35.000 This is preposterous.

00:56:37.000 So by being embedded in their community, you recognize that we really are, or you really were, an occupying force In just a community that's trying to get by, just a bunch of people that are just like you or I, but their circumstances were unfortunate.

00:56:54.000 They were born into this situation where this cycle is perpetuated over and over and over again, and you've got a chance to see it.

00:57:02.000 Right, let's not fool ourselves.

00:57:03.000 We all won the lottery here by being born in America.

00:57:07.000 We all won the lottery by being white.

00:57:10.000 So we have to recognize that...

00:57:16.000 Not gonna let it go, are you?

00:57:17.000 She's not.

00:57:17.000 She's not white.

00:57:18.000 She identifies as black.

00:57:20.000 I don't, again, I don't have an opinion on that.

00:57:22.000 You should.

00:57:23.000 Don't send me down that rabbit hole.

00:57:25.000 Everybody should.

00:57:27.000 Orange is the new black.

00:57:28.000 Right, right.

00:57:29.000 She's orange.

00:57:29.000 Mm-hmm.

00:57:30.000 Ever look at her skin?

00:57:32.000 Sorry.

00:57:33.000 You're wrong.

00:57:33.000 I'm not wrong.

00:57:34.000 Look, she did some good work, too.

00:57:36.000 She was running the NAACP very well.

00:57:39.000 She clearly issues there, though.

00:57:41.000 She's got some issues. 1.00

00:57:42.000 She likes black dudes. 0.93

00:57:44.000 She wanted to fit in. 0.62

00:57:45.000 It goes a little further than that.

00:57:46.000 A little bit.

00:57:47.000 Whatever.

00:57:47.000 I get you.

00:57:48.000 Some people want to be chicks. 1.00

00:57:49.000 Some people want to be black. 1.00

00:57:51.000 Who gives a fuck? 1.00

00:57:52.000 Let her be black. 1.00

00:57:53.000 Sure. 0.94

00:57:53.000 She's helping. 0.94

00:57:54.000 I got you.

00:57:55.000 A lot of people got mad at her though.

00:57:56.000 Yeah, I can imagine.

00:57:57.000 We're getting off track.

00:57:58.000 It's alright.

00:57:59.000 Did other officers share your, I want to say like, I don't want to say humanization, but your recognition of the fact that these folks are just like you?

00:58:12.000 Did other officers have that same feeling?

00:58:15.000 I think a lot of them do.

00:58:16.000 But it wasn't discussed?

00:58:18.000 No.

00:58:18.000 I mean, you don't discuss it while you're in, except for maybe a few people.

00:58:22.000 When I was a sergeant, I had a pretty good sphere of influence.

00:58:26.000 So our squad was a little more talkative about things like that and could be open and discuss those kind of things.

00:58:32.000 I took an officer once and just put on plain clothes and kind of walked around the district just not being cops.

00:58:38.000 And that shows you, like, how much different the neighborhood is than what you think.

00:58:42.000 Because you go from 911 call to 911 call to 911 call seeing everybody at their worst.

00:58:47.000 And when you're not seeing them at their worst, you're hunting for somebody that you can possibly pretend that they're doing at their worst.

00:58:54.000 You know, whether they have drugs on them or whatever.

00:58:57.000 But when...

00:58:58.000 You go through the city, it's not at all what you think it is.

00:59:02.000 So even me, looking like a prototypical white kid looking to buy drugs in the hood, when I would go through, it's not like the dealers are pushers.

00:59:11.000 I mean, they would come up like, yo, you want to party?

00:59:14.000 No.

00:59:14.000 And you keep on moving.

00:59:15.000 Sometimes they didn't trust me.

00:59:16.000 I was in too good of shape.

00:59:17.000 They'd be like, no.

00:59:18.000 But...

00:59:19.000 They weren't like they were pressuring you.

00:59:21.000 It's not like things were chaos in the neighborhood.

00:59:24.000 Ladies were sweeping their steps.

00:59:25.000 But the neighborhood changes when you have that blue uniform and those lights and you're now the authority.

00:59:32.000 You kind of have to see the city for what it's like when you're not there.

00:59:36.000 Right, so your point of view riding in a car, it's like there's a filter.

00:59:41.000 Super myopic, yeah.

00:59:42.000 Yeah, and you never really get a chance to experience it like a person who lives there.

00:59:47.000 I mean, even if you don't really, if you don't live there, but I mean, just you get a better view of it walking around and not acting as a cop.

00:59:55.000 Right.

00:59:55.000 It seems...

00:59:58.000 Common sense that you would do that.

01:00:00.000 What would you think about cops being forced to live in the places that they have to patrol?

01:00:03.000 I think that's a real tough situation.

01:00:06.000 It's a real tough argument and very nuanced.

01:00:10.000 There's no way I would live in Baltimore City because I didn't make enough money for my daughter to go to a private school and I wasn't sending her to that school to prison cycle. 1.00

01:00:19.000 Right.

01:00:20.000 I moved the PA where I could send her to a good school and actually afford to. 1.00

01:00:23.000 Now, sure, if I made enough money, if you're going to pay an officer $150,000, $160,000, yeah, he can stay in the city.

01:00:30.000 He or she can stay in the city.

01:00:31.000 When you say PA, you lived in Pennsylvania?

01:00:33.000 Right.

01:00:34.000 So how far away was that from where you were?

01:00:36.000 40 minutes.

01:00:37.000 So you would live in Pennsylvania, send your kid to school there, and then drive to work?

01:00:41.000 Right. 1.00

01:00:42.000 Fuck, man. 1.00

01:00:43.000 And that's common. 1.00

01:00:44.000 So a lot of police live in Pennsylvania.

01:00:47.000 In the southern PA area, driving back and forth in Maryland.

01:00:49.000 A lot of workers, period, do that.

01:00:51.000 There's a lot of communities around LA, like Simi Valley is a big one, where there's big communities of police officers.

01:00:56.000 Is that the same thing with there, where they sort of decide to live near each other, close together?

01:01:02.000 Well, you don't do it intentionally.

01:01:03.000 No?

01:01:03.000 It's economically driven.

01:01:05.000 Oh, okay.

01:01:06.000 So it's economically driven, like you find a place that's affordable, but you don't try to move where the other cops live?

01:01:12.000 No.

01:01:12.000 No, I wouldn't want to do that.

01:01:13.000 I would work for them all day.

01:01:16.000 Well, I know my friends that are cops, they actually did it on purpose.

01:01:19.000 There's some that live in Santa Clarita.

01:01:21.000 They're a little deeper.

01:01:22.000 They're pretty deep into that, then.

01:01:23.000 Well, you know how it is.

01:01:25.000 It becomes like a gang, right?

01:01:27.000 Doesn't it?

01:01:27.000 It is.

01:01:28.000 We actually say in the city that there is one gang, and that's the Blue Gang. 0.98

01:01:31.000 So, like, we don't let people... 0.96

01:01:34.000 So aggression is good in a certain extent.

01:01:36.000 We don't let gang members throw flags. 0.99

01:01:39.000 So in my post, if somebody had a red bandana or a blue bandana sticking out of their pocket, that shit was not going down. 0.98

01:01:44.000 So you arrested someone? 0.99

01:01:45.000 I wouldn't arrest them, I would just punk him. 0.72

01:01:47.000 Punk him.

01:01:47.000 So you embarrass him in front of his friends, you take his stuff.

01:01:51.000 And you roll out.

01:01:52.000 Did you ever experience resistance?

01:01:54.000 Sure, they're gonna resist.

01:01:56.000 If they're gonna resist, then it's gonna go bad.

01:01:58.000 Did anybody shoot at you or anything like that?

01:02:00.000 No, nothing.

01:02:01.000 No, because it's the game.

01:02:02.000 So I'm respecting the game.

01:02:04.000 You know there's a game.

01:02:05.000 The drug game.

01:02:06.000 So I have my role, the drug dealer has his role, and we're playing this back and forth.

01:02:11.000 And as long as we all play by the rules, everything is fine.

01:02:15.000 As soon as the cops stop playing by the rules of the game, then you have a problem.

01:02:19.000 As soon as they stop playing by the rules of the game, you have a problem.

01:02:23.000 Did the futility of it all, was that obvious to you?

01:02:26.000 Yeah, incredibly obvious.

01:02:27.000 There's no point.

01:02:28.000 I remember a case we had where there was a group that was selling drugs, and we worked on it for about a week or two, took down the whole group, and two days later, there was a whole new crew running the exact same neighborhood, throwing the same product, and we were just like... 0.99

01:02:41.000 Fuck. 0.99

01:02:41.000 That was pointless. 0.99

01:02:43.000 Right.

01:02:43.000 We just took all them off.

01:02:45.000 There was no point to it whatsoever.

01:02:47.000 And it was all drugs anyway.

01:02:48.000 It's all drugs. 1.00

01:02:49.000 Fucking A, man. 1.00

01:02:51.000 Everything is drugs. 0.99

01:02:52.000 This, you know, if I was a conspiracy theorist, I kind of been one in the past, but I've mostly abandoned that.

01:03:00.000 But if I was...

01:03:02.000 I would feel like this is engineered.

01:03:03.000 I would feel like this is just set up to make sure that these people stay poor, that you keep arresting people, and you keep this cycle going.

01:03:13.000 I don't think you're a conspiracy theorist.

01:03:14.000 I think you're right.

01:03:15.000 Is it because...

01:03:18.000 It exists and because the system sort of feeds off of it or was it engineered?

01:03:23.000 I think the prison industrial complex has a huge role in that.

01:03:26.000 So especially with your privatizing prisons, so you're creating a vacancy for a bed that must be filled.

01:03:32.000 So who's gonna fill that?

01:03:34.000 So this is where institutional racism also comes in.

01:03:37.000 I'm not gonna fill it with you.

01:03:38.000 We're not gonna fill it with me.

01:03:39.000 We're not gonna fill it with Jamie.

01:03:40.000 Jamie's sketchy.

01:03:41.000 Look at him.

01:03:42.000 We're gonna fill it With the people we like the least as a society.

01:03:48.000 The people that you feel like you can demonize the easiest.

01:03:50.000 When that judge got arrested in Pennsylvania for sending kids to jail and juvenile just for money, we really got a view into this world I think a lot of people that opened their eyes, they went, whoa, 1.00

01:04:06.000 a fucking judge? 0.99

01:04:07.000 Judges can be that bad? 1.00

01:04:09.000 Judges can be so evil that they would ruin a child's life just so they could profit off of it.

01:04:14.000 But that's essentially what's going on by keeping the system the way it is.

01:04:19.000 Today, the Baltimore Police...

01:04:21.000 Who was he?

01:04:23.000 The head of Baltimore Police?

01:04:24.000 Commissioner Anthony Batts.

01:04:26.000 He resigned, or was he fired?

01:04:28.000 He was fired.

01:04:29.000 He was fired.

01:04:29.000 And why was he fired?

01:04:31.000 Because of all this shit that's going down? 0.99

01:04:33.000 Yeah, it's a really hard situation to say. 0.99

01:04:38.000 He's fired because he never led the agency.

01:04:40.000 He never had the agency, ever.

01:04:42.000 We really don't like outsiders. 1.00

01:04:45.000 So, when he comes in here from Oakland, from California, no offense.

01:04:48.000 He came from Oakland?

01:04:49.000 Mm-hmm. 1.00

01:04:50.000 Oakland's fucked up, too. 1.00

01:04:51.000 Oakland is, like, one of the worst police brutality spots in California. 0.99

01:04:54.000 You find that to be coincidental that there was an uprising in Oakland and an uprising in Baltimore, two agencies he led? 1.00

01:05:00.000 This motherfucker! 1.00

01:05:02.000 What's he doing now? 1.00

01:05:03.000 Put him in jail.

01:05:03.000 How about that?

01:05:04.000 See how he lasts.

01:05:05.000 No, you don't think that's gonna happen, do you?

01:05:07.000 Is it?

01:05:07.000 No.

01:05:08.000 No.

01:05:09.000 So, what is his name again, this guy?

01:05:11.000 Anthony Batts. 0.98

01:05:12.000 And what did he do that was fucked up? 0.98

01:05:14.000 He just never had the agency. 0.97

01:05:15.000 So, never take responsibility.

01:05:17.000 You can't...

01:05:18.000 So, they come in, and they come in with these ideals of what it's like in Baltimore, and they don't know what it's like in Baltimore.

01:05:26.000 Because he knows what it's like in Oakland.

01:05:29.000 No, I mean, hypothetically.

01:05:30.000 Barely.

01:05:31.000 Barely, it seems.

01:05:32.000 Right.

01:05:33.000 So they come in with just these ideals and this, I don't know, aura, and they're never going to get us.

01:05:39.000 Like, they're never going to get us to follow them.

01:05:42.000 So it doesn't matter what he does.

01:05:44.000 We're not going to follow him.

01:05:45.000 He doesn't...

01:05:45.000 After the riots, he said he should have trusted his instincts and done more than to rely on his commanders.

01:05:53.000 You just threw your commanders under the bus in public and you think this agency is going to follow you?

01:05:57.000 Are you kidding me?

01:05:58.000 So he's a politician, essentially.

01:06:00.000 They all are.

01:06:00.000 That's one of our problems.

01:06:01.000 That's why we have to get money out because we're led by politicians and policing. 1.00

01:06:06.000 What could be done?

01:06:09.000 Let's say this thing becomes bigger, and I think what you're doing today is very courageous, and you're speaking very eloquently and very articulate, and you're honest, and I really believe you, man.

01:06:21.000 I believe you from the heart, 100%.

01:06:26.000 There's a possibility that people like you and all these activists that are making these giant protests happen and causing all these people to be aware of all this police brutality and this fucking horrible cycle that these people are thrust into.

01:06:45.000 A guy like you could really change something.

01:06:50.000 A guy like you, if you were in a position of power, there might be something that you could do.

01:06:58.000 Would you consider doing something like that?

01:07:00.000 I would consider it if we had the environment to do so, because it's going to be ugly at first, because I can't stop the drug war.

01:07:09.000 It's not in my control.

01:07:11.000 Well, you shouldn't stop the drug war.

01:07:12.000 What if, this is a big hypothetical, but what if we went into some sort of a situation in this country where drugs became decriminalized? 0.99

01:07:22.000 Where the United States woke the fuck up and realized we've been doing the same shit that they did during the fucking 20s, During the Prohibition, We're doing the same shit. 0.99

01:07:33.000 We're telling people what they can't do, they're not listening, and we're feeding organized crime. 1.00

01:07:38.000 We're feeding crime that is filling a vacuum, just like it's going on in Mexico right now. 1.00

01:07:44.000 Just like these poor fucking people that live in these border towns in Mexico. 1.00

01:07:48.000 It's all being fueled by the fact that drugs are illegal and they're selling these drugs to America. 1.00

01:07:54.000 If all of a sudden that changed, how much of an impact would that have on police?

01:08:00.000 It would be striking.

01:08:02.000 Again, that's 90% of what I did.

01:08:05.000 So if we would stop doing that, it would be incredibly advantageous.

01:08:09.000 But what would they do with you guys?

01:08:12.000 See what I'm saying?

01:08:12.000 Let's focus.

01:08:13.000 Let's investigate violence.

01:08:14.000 Let's figure out how we're gonna fix things.

01:08:15.000 So use some science to say we have a problem.

01:08:19.000 What do we do to actually solve this problem?

01:08:22.000 Instead of being fueled by ideology, what are we actually doing?

01:08:27.000 Well, you saw this recent thing on Obama's gonna release all these non-violent drug offenders.

01:08:31.000 I mean, that's a good step.

01:08:33.000 I concur completely.

01:08:34.000 That's a great step.

01:08:35.000 Now, if he does that, and if the next step is obviously not arresting non-violent drug offenders, not arresting them at all.

01:08:45.000 Like, there's no more arrests for drugs.

01:08:47.000 Unless there's violence involved, and then you're arresting someone for violence, which is totally reasonable. 0.99

01:08:52.000 It doesn't matter if they're violent over fucking stuffed animals or cocaine. 1.00

01:08:57.000 Who gives a shit? 1.00

01:08:57.000 They're violent, right? 1.00

01:08:58.000 They're hurting somebody.

01:08:59.000 That's why they're arrested.

01:09:01.000 How much would that transform neighborhoods?

01:09:03.000 How much would that transform this entire cycle of people going from communities that are just engulfed in crime and becoming a part of that themselves because they were unlucky enough to be born there?

01:09:17.000 I think it's the biggest thing we could do as a nation.

01:09:20.000 I only put Wolfpack and getting money out of politics ahead of it because I question that we can actually do that as money continues to fuel the politicians.

01:09:31.000 And Wolfpack is what's set up by the Young Turks, right? 1.00

01:09:33.000 Right. 0.99

01:09:33.000 Yeah, which is fucking fantastic. 0.99

01:09:35.000 I love that. 0.69

01:09:36.000 There's another thing that my friend Steve Hilton put together called CrowdPak, where you could see exactly which politicians are being supported by what, where they're getting their donations from, and what they vote on.

01:09:49.000 Get a real clear analysis of their position based on influence, based on the amount of money they're receiving and where it's coming from.

01:09:58.000 It's all shocking shit, because I just would hope that as we move forward as a human race, as we move forward as civilization moves forward, and we embrace technology, and we understand that we have more access to information now than any human beings that have ever lived ever, 0.54

01:10:15.000 to keep living the same way, even though we have all these... 0.97

01:10:20.000 Obvious problems right in front of us is ridiculous I mean it's it's literally the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result That is the definition of insanity right totally agree There's just there's no way around it that we're doing this wrong and that's why I'm saying the only reason I'm saying this is because We are doing it so wrong,

01:10:41.000 and it's so blatantly wrong.

01:10:43.000 It's like you have to have a cognitive bias to not see this.

01:10:48.000 It's really the older generation.

01:10:49.000 I kind of have pretty much confidence that our generations and younger will be able to solve this once we get in power.

01:10:54.000 But how they don't see this now is absolutely baffling.

01:10:57.000 And I think they don't see it because it doesn't affect them.

01:11:00.000 So why should they care?

01:11:02.000 Were you still in the force when that guy got choked to death in Staten Island?

01:11:06.000 I don't think I was.

01:11:07.000 That was Eric Gardner.

01:11:08.000 Yeah, Eric Gardner. 0.90

01:11:10.000 That one drove me fucking crazy because there's a video of it and you get to see the fact that this guy was so innocent. 0.95

01:11:16.000 There's nothing wrong with what he was doing. 0.98

01:11:18.000 He's just hanging out.

01:11:19.000 Two cents.

01:11:20.000 Tax evasion or something.

01:11:21.000 Tax evasion.

01:11:22.000 Exactly.

01:11:23.000 The idea that these cops are going to choke a guy to death because he's not paying taxes on loose cigarettes.

01:11:27.000 Not only that, he didn't even have any loose cigarettes on him.

01:11:30.000 And they wrestled on the ground and choked him and then tried to say that it wasn't a chokehold.

01:11:34.000 I mean, that one just highlights the difference between the way they treated that guy versus the way they would treat one of their own.

01:11:42.000 It's a clear us versus them. 0.97

01:11:45.000 And they felt like they could do that.

01:11:47.000 They could do that.

01:11:48.000 The papers were signed.

01:11:50.000 They had the directive.

01:11:51.000 It was obvious that it was within their boundaries to take this guy and to physically assault him and arrest him.

01:11:58.000 Yeah, and so they don't have empathy.

01:11:59.000 So if you want to see them have empathy, please, we need to be moral.

01:12:03.000 We need to be human.

01:12:04.000 That's what I'm, like, my main message is we have to lead with empathy.

01:12:07.000 That's the starting point of everything.

01:12:09.000 So if I'm going after that guy, I can immediately see that, whether there's a law or not, the idea that I'm going to take someone's freedom away. 0.91

01:12:20.000 Like, they took his life away, but they were planning to take his freedom away for essentially nothing in stupid tax that's pennies. 0.76

01:12:28.000 He's providing a service. 0.99

01:12:30.000 Yeah, to somebody.

01:12:31.000 If you don't have five bucks and you want a cigarette, that guy's providing a service.

01:12:35.000 Yeah, so why don't you let him set up a little booth and he can... 0.99

01:12:38.000 Not only that, didn't he pay taxes on those fucking stats? 0.99

01:12:41.000 Yes! 1.00

01:12:42.000 So, Jesus Christ, I mean, you know, he's making a little bit of a profit, but who gives a shit? 0.99

01:12:47.000 Totally. 0.98

01:12:47.000 No one's getting hurt. 0.98

01:12:48.000 No one.

01:12:49.000 Literally, no one's getting hurt.

01:12:50.000 And the money that they could have made just by eliminating the drug war in taxes would make that look like a pittance.

01:12:57.000 Just the amount of taxes they're getting from Colorado. 0.99

01:13:00.000 Colorado has fucking changed. 0.98

01:13:02.000 I mean, it is morphing right in front of our eyes and becoming this free utopia. 1.00

01:13:06.000 Yeah, you got a lot of dirty hippies there and a lot of fucking homeless people, but that's part of the rap. 0.99

01:13:11.000 You're gonna get that. 1.00

01:13:12.000 They don't bother anybody, though.

01:13:13.000 We know that.

01:13:13.000 I mean, they might bother you a little bit, but whatever.

01:13:16.000 That's for some change. 0.99

01:13:16.000 Yeah, who gives a shit? 0.99

01:13:18.000 I mean, that's... 0.99

01:13:19.000 So why don't conservatives see this?

01:13:22.000 Why don't these states see this? 0.99

01:13:23.000 Because they're white! 0.84

01:13:25.000 They live in the suburbs!

01:13:27.000 They're my neighbors!

01:13:27.000 Don't they want money?

01:13:28.000 I mean, that money is going to go to their schools as well.

01:13:30.000 That's going to make it safer for their kid to go to Fourth of July in the city.

01:13:34.000 That's going to make it safer for all of us.

01:13:35.000 The answer is blatantly obvious that we must end the war on drugs and we must get money out of politics.

01:13:41.000 But we just sit here sitting on our hands.

01:13:44.000 Well, I agree with you, but I think you having these kind of conversations live, online, in a...

01:13:50.000 A forum like this where it's going to be distributed to millions of people you have the opportunity to influence people that might not see things your way because you have a genuine insight and a real perspective that very few people including me could ever hope to have.

01:14:07.000 You saying this kind of stuff and you talking about this kind of stuff can shed some light in a way that other people can't.

01:14:12.000 I'm listening to you talk here, man. 0.99

01:14:13.000 I'm like, you're the fucking perfect commissioner. 0.99

01:14:15.000 You're the kind of guy that I would want running a police department. 1.00

01:14:19.000 You! 0.99

01:14:20.000 You're a guy who's been there, a guy who's served the country, been there as a cop, understands what the problems are, and has solutions, and has empathy, and really is saying all the right shit. 0.99

01:14:33.000 I mean, this is what we need. 0.96

01:14:34.000 This is what the police departments of the world, of this country at least, need.

01:14:39.000 We need someone like you.

01:14:40.000 So, how do I convince other cops of that?

01:14:44.000 That's my struggle.

01:14:45.000 I don't know, man. 0.99

01:14:45.000 I mean, I know a lot of cops listen to this fucking podcast. 0.99

01:14:48.000 I'll tell you that. 0.99

01:14:49.000 I mean, I don't know if this is going to change them, but they're going to fucking Joe Rogan's high listening. 0.88

01:14:53.000 You ain't out on the streets with us, dude. 0.77

01:14:55.000 But, you know, you've seen the thin blue line sticker, right?

01:14:58.000 Yes.

01:14:58.000 The black on the top, black on the bottom.

01:15:00.000 So we even visualize ourselves the wrong way.

01:15:03.000 So we're this thin blue line, and the thin blue line goes to the middle, and it separates the good guys from the bad guys.

01:15:10.000 And it makes us neither.

01:15:11.000 Our entire mentality is that we are somebody that's separate.

01:15:15.000 We're not the good guys or the bad guys. 1.00

01:15:17.000 We're a separate entity that runs this shit. 0.99

01:15:21.000 But that shouldn't be that way. 1.00

01:15:23.000 That should be like a blurred blue and black.

01:15:25.000 We should be part of the fabric of our society.

01:15:27.000 And we should be ingrained in it.

01:15:30.000 But instead, we fix ourselves like a wall.

01:15:34.000 And we shouldn't be a wall.

01:15:36.000 I think human beings inherently have a problem with power.

01:15:39.000 You know, that's why you see, I mean, you see it across the board.

01:15:44.000 When people have power and influence over people, like, it seems to be a natural inclination to abuse it, and it takes someone of very strong character and insight and objectivity, like yourself, to not do that.

01:15:57.000 Or at least to recognize that you have done that, and that it is wrong.

01:16:01.000 Or that it was wrong. 0.98

01:16:03.000 It seems to me that, like, whether it's politicians or whether it's the military or whether it's someone like fucking Bill Cosby, you know? 0.98

01:16:11.000 Like, how does a guy become that guy? 0.98

01:16:13.000 Well, it has to be out of power, you know?

01:16:16.000 I mean, it's the power, even just...

01:16:20.000 It might be a stretch, but the power to drug someone, the ability to do that.

01:16:26.000 What is it about human beings that makes them exploit people that are below them instead of trying to raise those people up to their level?

01:16:39.000 There's some fundamental lack of understanding about the brotherhood and sisterhood of the human race. 0.98

01:16:47.000 It all gets fucked up when you have a job. 0.85

01:16:50.000 And it seems to me that if you have a quota, and if you have a boss that's telling you you need to arrest more people, you need to lock up more people. 0.98

01:16:59.000 Like, these streets are too safe.

01:17:01.000 Either you're doing...

01:17:04.000 The right thing, or you're not doing enough.

01:17:07.000 And they almost always think you're not doing enough, right?

01:17:10.000 Always.

01:17:10.000 They never would think, oh, this guy got lucky, and he created a good relationship with all these people, and we locked up all the bad guys, and all the people in the community that are left are all safe.

01:17:20.000 There's no more violent criminals.

01:17:22.000 It's a beautiful utopia of a neighborhood, and we never have to arrest anybody there ever again.

01:17:27.000 So cops would just be there, just sort of to say hi, and patrol the streets.

01:17:31.000 Yeah, that sounds like a great idea.

01:17:33.000 But you see it, right?

01:17:35.000 You see that.

01:17:36.000 So you see it.

01:17:37.000 So the first step is to recognize it.

01:17:39.000 And so do we have a problem with power as human beings?

01:17:42.000 Maybe we do.

01:17:43.000 So let's acknowledge that and put measures in place so that we don't exceed our power boundaries.

01:17:48.000 Have some checks and balances in law enforcement because we have zero.

01:17:52.000 We get away with everything we want to get away with until there's a camera.

01:17:56.000 The only difference, all these other things that you've seen in the past, you've heard these stories of guys getting shot unarmed, but yet he was attacking my gun or he was taking my gun.

01:18:05.000 How much do you really believe those now?

01:18:07.000 Well, we saw that one where the guy in South Carolina shot the guy in the back and then dropped the taser.

01:18:12.000 He walked up to him and threw the taser down near his body.

01:18:14.000 Did the other cops say anything?

01:18:15.000 There's a video of it.

01:18:16.000 I don't know if the other cops saw it.

01:18:18.000 He saw him do it.

01:18:19.000 It's right in front of him.

01:18:19.000 He saw him do it.

01:18:20.000 He thinks nothing of it.

01:18:21.000 It's right on video!

01:18:22.000 Because it's normal.

01:18:23.000 It's normal.

01:18:24.000 I only saw the one guy.

01:18:25.000 Is the other guy in the video, the other guy see the taser?

01:18:29.000 Is it obvious that he sees it?

01:18:31.000 I mean, he's first standing right next to him.

01:18:32.000 I don't know.

01:18:33.000 I don't know.

01:18:34.000 But the fact that he shot him in the back while he was running away. 0.98

01:18:37.000 I mean, that's kind of fucking crazy. 0.99

01:18:39.000 It's crazy. 0.99

01:18:40.000 Because that guy's being charged for murder, right?

01:18:42.000 Well, that's nice.

01:18:43.000 But it's because he got caught.

01:18:44.000 But did anybody riot?

01:18:45.000 Nobody rioted there.

01:18:46.000 But why?

01:18:47.000 Because they're busy.

01:18:48.000 They're all booked.

01:18:49.000 All the uprising.

01:18:51.000 D-Ray was booked.

01:18:52.000 D-Ray was booked.

01:18:53.000 He had too many things.

01:18:54.000 What happened with D-Ray?

01:18:55.000 You got him to not... 1.00

01:18:57.000 This guy, D-Ray, is a really noble activist, and I appreciate everything this guy's doing, and I appreciated him making Wolf Blitzer look like a fucking idiot on TV. But he had me blocked for some reason, but you got him to unblock me. 0.95

01:19:13.000 I got him to unblock you.

01:19:16.000 It's totally conjecture, but I think he's just leery of us, and I understand that.

01:19:20.000 Of white people? 0.79

01:19:21.000 Yeah.

01:19:21.000 Us?

01:19:22.000 We're in the same group?

01:19:23.000 Yeah, I think so.

01:19:26.000 But why'd he block me?

01:19:27.000 Because I'm white?

01:19:28.000 No, his blocking has something to do with something he thought that you said.

01:19:32.000 What do you think I said?

01:19:33.000 I don't remember.

01:19:34.000 How can you not remember?

01:19:35.000 No, you're going to have to talk to him.

01:19:36.000 Okay.

01:19:37.000 You can't say it?

01:19:38.000 No, I just don't know enough and I didn't dig.

01:19:40.000 It's not my business.

01:19:42.000 So he thought I said something racist?

01:19:44.000 I don't know what he thought you said.

01:19:45.000 He thought you said something that you didn't like and I just said, you know, trust me.

01:19:50.000 He's fine.

01:19:50.000 He's one of the good guys.

01:19:52.000 Don't worry about it.

01:19:52.000 Okay.

01:19:54.000 Maybe I said a joke.

01:19:55.000 Maybe I said something off-color.

01:19:56.000 It's always hard.

01:19:57.000 The problem with being a comedian, man.

01:19:59.000 Maybe he heard me talk about transracialism and how I support it.

01:20:03.000 I think he's probably a little goof on that himself.

01:20:06.000 Well, he should be. 0.51

01:20:08.000 But why not? 1.00

01:20:09.000 Fuck it. 1.00

01:20:09.000 He's a good guy. 1.00

01:20:11.000 I understand his lack of trust.

01:20:12.000 Well, I understand.

01:20:13.000 I guess.

01:20:15.000 But I understand.

01:20:16.000 I don't understand his lack of trust in me.

01:20:18.000 I just don't understand that.

01:20:20.000 I'm so trustworthy, but I understand what he's doing.

01:20:23.000 I think it's spectacular. 0.99

01:20:25.000 He to me is a real activist as opposed to Al Sharpton who just makes my fucking blood curdle when I see that guy show up at any fucking event that has anything to do with black people. 1.00

01:20:35.000 Jesus fucking Christ. 0.99

01:20:36.000 That guy has more harm than he does good just by his just greasy The past, his history, and there's so much about him that's just so wrong, and it's nice to see someone like DeRay come along. 1.00

01:20:50.000 It's nice to see a real activist, someone who is intelligent, is articulate, is doing all the right things.

01:20:58.000 And I think between a guy like that, between many people like him, I'm sure there's a lot more people like him that I'm not aware of, and then someone like you, who's shedding light on this from the inside, I think things are slowly but surely turning.

01:21:12.000 I think the battleship is moving in a different direction.

01:21:15.000 I really do.

01:21:16.000 I really think the whole country is moving in a different direction, and I think that when we see the way people are approaching gay rights now, the way the world is just more sensitive about things.

01:21:30.000 Some people are angry at it.

01:21:32.000 They're saying everyone's oversensitive.

01:21:34.000 I think it's probably better to be oversensitive than to be insensitive.

01:21:39.000 Because oversensitive can be corrected.

01:21:41.000 And people are like, well, people are, you know, these lives are being ruined because people are being oversensitive.

01:21:46.000 You know, there was a Nobel Prize winning doctor or professor that made a joke about women in science. 1.00

01:21:54.000 And he said they should probably have same-sex labs because three things happen when women are in the labs. 1.00

01:22:02.000 He said either they fall in love with you or you fall in love with them or they cry when you criticize them.

01:22:08.000 And he was joking around, I guess.

01:22:11.000 Allegedly, and he had to resign.

01:22:13.000 He had to resign for that, for something like that.

01:22:15.000 You know, they say, equality in science is more important. 0.99

01:22:18.000 Like, that motherfucker is curing cancer, all right? 0.98

01:22:21.000 This guy's a Nobel Prize winning scientist, and he says something that's a little goofy, but he doesn't have some history of oppression. 0.99

01:22:27.000 He's not some terrible person.

01:22:29.000 It's this massive oversensitivity by people.

01:22:33.000 Where you can't even just, you know, say that's probably not a good thing to say.

01:22:37.000 And he, you know, can kind of correct it and you can kind of smooth it out because you understand that people talk off the top of their head.

01:22:44.000 This is not like a fucking story wrote for the New York Times where he had a clear position on women in science and it became a real issue because he criticized people that might have gotten into science and done some real good work. 0.71

01:22:58.000 No, the guy's just talking. 0.98

01:22:59.000 You know?

01:23:00.000 And I think symptoms like that, like these issues that we face, it's way better to have that than it is to have insensitivity.

01:23:09.000 I think the oversensitive things, like, it sucks that this guy got fired, but, or that he resigned, but he shouldn't have.

01:23:15.000 And I blame the institution. 0.95

01:23:16.000 I blame the people running for that, that are so fucking sensitive that they, and so terrified that they're worried about any criticism whatsoever, that they reacted to it in this way. 0.98

01:23:25.000 And him, he shouldn't have fucking backed down from it either. 0.96

01:23:28.000 He should have talked about it and Explained or maybe even apologized. 0.93

01:23:31.000 Maybe even said it was an off-color joke or it was just I just think that that Balance is is because we're moving in the right direction.

01:23:41.000 I really do I think I even though I've been a victim of oversensitivity I shouldn't say victim.

01:23:47.000 That's very grandiose It's it's it's affected me or it's impacted me or I've felt it I've seen it rather I think it's better. 0.96

01:23:55.000 It's better to have all those fucking crazy people running around looking at things to be offended about, looking at, you know, examples of sexism or homophobia or racism. 0.94

01:24:05.000 It's better to have people reaching too far than to not reach at all. 0.98

01:24:10.000 And I think because we're seeing all this stuff, I think it's evidence That society as a whole and our culture in America is tipping towards being more aware.

01:24:20.000 And I think that's a good thing.

01:24:22.000 I really do.

01:24:23.000 I have a lot of hope.

01:24:25.000 A lot of people think that I'm overly optimistic about the future of this country and the human beings in general.

01:24:32.000 But I see plenty of evidence that people are aware and that they care and just all the people that are paying attention to your story and all these different protests and marches and all these different news stories whenever we see these examples of police brutality.

01:24:49.000 They're so highlighted now.

01:24:51.000 This is not swept under the rug at all. 0.98

01:24:54.000 And if anything, the cops are fucking thrown under the bus immediately. 0.98

01:24:57.000 I mean, it's a different world. 0.99

01:24:59.000 And I think there's going to be an adjustment period.

01:25:02.000 But I think ultimately, when we look back at this time, 10, 20 years from now, I think we're going to look at this as a shift, as a shift in our culture that we didn't see in the 60s.

01:25:13.000 You know, there's...

01:25:15.000 I think when the when Martin Luther King was around and when There was a shift then there was most certainly an awareness civil rights awareness But I think it's even bigger now.

01:25:27.000 I really do.

01:25:28.000 I think this is a great time to be a human being I really think that We have the real potential to make some real change inside our lifetime and change that can Give momentum to the future I think there's without question that you're completely right.

01:25:46.000 They can't avoid it.

01:25:48.000 Technology has made us communicate.

01:25:50.000 We see everything.

01:25:51.000 We can't hide as much anymore.

01:25:53.000 We just have to be human and recognize all of our flaws and everything will be fine.

01:25:58.000 With your doctor, if we could have some empathy for his position, Because empathy is a two-way street, then maybe you can work out a solution for understanding in that ballgame.

01:26:08.000 And that's what we're doing now is we're working out the understanding, and it's going to have this ugly period in policing, for sure.

01:26:15.000 But we'll get through it, and it's going to be better.

01:26:17.000 It's inevitable.

01:26:17.000 I don't think it's me.

01:26:18.000 It's going to be somebody that comes behind me, but it's going to work.

01:26:22.000 I think you're a part of it.

01:26:24.000 I think we're all a part of it.

01:26:26.000 I think someone like you is uniquely qualified to be a part of it.

01:26:29.000 You know, the fact that you actually were there on the street arresting a dude who's wearing somebody else's pants.

01:26:35.000 I think it just shows you're uniquely qualified to talk about this.

01:26:40.000 And I think that there's a real potential with this kind of dialogue and with people just being more and more aware of it that a young kid that might be like 16, 17 years old right now that is about to go into the Marines and has the same idea that you had He has a leg up.

01:26:58.000 Maybe he can learn from your experiences and maybe his comrades and maybe his peers can also learn from what you're saying and your experiences and maybe someone like you one day becomes a commissioner and maybe that time while that's happening That one commissioner starts listening to good politicians and gets influenced by good leaders and doesn't have to start arresting people just for drugs. 0.99

01:27:26.000 Doesn't have to just perpetrate the same stupid fucking cycle that's been going on and on. 0.98

01:27:32.000 I mean, is that too much to ask? 1.00

01:27:33.000 Is that too unrealistic to hope that we can change things?

01:27:37.000 I mean, you can't think that we're not going to improve.

01:27:42.000 If we're not going to improve, we're going to stay stagnant as a culture. 0.96

01:27:45.000 Well, that's ridiculous. 0.99

01:27:47.000 That's shitty engineering. 1.00

01:27:48.000 That's non-thinking. 0.97

01:27:50.000 Are we saying that we're perfect?

01:27:52.000 Or are we saying that it's futile?

01:27:54.000 Are we saying that it can't be fixed?

01:27:56.000 Or are we saying that we're not willing to try?

01:27:58.000 One of those is happening.

01:28:01.000 The majority is not willing to try.

01:28:03.000 Yeah.

01:28:04.000 But you even...

01:28:05.000 I don't think I belong on the pedestal you're putting me on.

01:28:08.000 Maybe somebody else was, because I participated in all this.

01:28:11.000 Maybe we can have people that don't...

01:28:13.000 That's why it's on a pedestal.

01:28:14.000 I'm not putting you on a pedestal.

01:28:16.000 I'm just saying you're hope.

01:28:20.000 What you're doing, this is hope.

01:28:24.000 You influence that, though.

01:28:26.000 Okay, so you have this philosophy where you are like, it doesn't matter what you do. 0.98

01:28:31.000 Just fucking be nice. 0.99

01:28:33.000 Just be nice. 0.99

01:28:34.000 And listening to you through these years, that has invaded my mind as well.

01:28:38.000 So if we can just talk...

01:28:40.000 Start opening up as humans and be nice and be empathetic then we're going to work all of this out regardless Bernie Sanders might even be a good example of that with his message right now absolutely huge following right yes and Like vote for this guy.

01:28:54.000 Yeah, I mean we're going to make changes It's like if you're a progressive Then you want to make changes.

01:29:01.000 If you're a conservative, you want to stay in the past.

01:29:04.000 That's what these words mean.

01:29:05.000 It doesn't make any sense.

01:29:06.000 Who would want to be conservative and stuck in the past?

01:29:09.000 The only person that's going to be stuck in the past is the one with the Confederate flag that's collecting money off the backs of somebody else. 0.98

01:29:15.000 Well, just the definition of conservative, I think it's all fucked up now. 0.84

01:29:19.000 Conservative should be someone who's fiscally conservative, someone who's prudent, someone who makes good financial choices. 0.93

01:29:25.000 That's a good thing.

01:29:27.000 That's a smart thing.

01:29:27.000 That's someone with discipline.

01:29:29.000 I support that 100%.

01:29:31.000 You know, good financial decisions, that is a conservative thing.

01:29:35.000 You know, when you start getting socially conservative, that means you're white. 0.77

01:29:40.000 That's what it means. 0.96

01:29:41.000 You might as well say you're white, you know, or you're a black guy who likes hanging out with white people. 0.97

01:29:45.000 And being paid more than he's worth. 0.98

01:29:47.000 Because you know that's what happens.

01:29:49.000 I mean, we live in a weird world right now, and I think society is being redefined right in front of our eyes. 0.76

01:29:57.000 I think when we look back at this time, a hundred years from now, when people look back, when we're dead, they're gonna look back and go, God, it was a fucking crazy time to be alive. 0.89

01:30:05.000 That internet just fucking threw a monkey wrench into the whole gears. 0.98

01:30:09.000 Clank! 0.98

01:30:10.000 I mean, that's really what's happening.

01:30:12.000 This ability to communicate just didn't exist before.

01:30:15.000 You being able to come on a show like this, this wasn't supposed to happen.

01:30:19.000 No, not at all.

01:30:20.000 If this show was on the radio or something like that, first of all, we'd be interrupted by commercials.

01:30:26.000 And then second of all, someone would probably tell us we can't talk about these things.

01:30:28.000 Or we can't talk about the way we're talking.

01:30:31.000 You can't swear.

01:30:31.000 We've already been arrested for swearing.

01:30:33.000 You can get a fucking fine of some insane amount. 0.99

01:30:36.000 I think it's like $250,000 for swearing on the radio. 1.00

01:30:40.000 For swearing. 1.00

01:30:41.000 Like just saying, get the fuck out of here on the radio. 1.00

01:30:43.000 You can go to jail if you don't pay that fine. 0.99

01:30:46.000 If you don't pay that quarter million dollar fine.

01:30:48.000 The vig to the government.

01:30:50.000 That's where Howard Stern came in, man. 1.00

01:30:52.000 Howard Stern fought all that shit. 0.99

01:30:54.000 That's why that guy's always going to be a hero to me. 1.00

01:30:56.000 I don't give a fuck what he says about podcasting or Ari Shaffir or any of that crazy shit. 0.98

01:31:01.000 If it wasn't for that guy, that guy fought the fight. 1.00

01:31:03.000 And the powers that be that have set this stupid thing up, they didn't anticipate that a guy like you would be able to go on the Young Turks later this afternoon and say anything you want, man. 0.99

01:31:15.000 And that Young Turks thing will be seen by a fucking million people. 1.00

01:31:18.000 Easy. 0.99

01:31:19.000 And that's hope, man.

01:31:21.000 That's hope because...

01:31:23.000 What we're talking about where you listen to some of the things that I've said, those things that I've said, I've heard online.

01:31:29.000 You know, I've read.

01:31:30.000 I've watched documentaries.

01:31:33.000 I'm expressing things that I've learned.

01:31:35.000 And we all learn from each other.

01:31:37.000 And we all...

01:31:37.000 The community that we create by...

01:31:41.000 Finding like-minded people or by saying things that resonate with people or by influencing people in a positive way where it actually helps their mindset and helps their life and they become thankful of that and then they spread the same kind of message and we help spread it to each other and I have a guy like you on and you change the way I think about certain things and you influence like I'm Genuinely honored to have you on the show.

01:32:02.000 I'm genuinely I really admire what you've done and what you're saying and I think other people will as well and I think it spreads it's like a good virus like it gets out there and This this wasn't available before something like this wasn't available And I think that's part of why we all got locked into this us-versus-them mentality.

01:32:25.000 We didn't have a voice that distinguishes or differentiates from the fucking same bullshit corporate voice that we keep hearing over and over and over again that doesn't differentiate. 0.77

01:32:35.000 You don't hear any we are all brothers and sisters on Fox News. 0.99

01:32:40.000 You don't hear that.

01:32:41.000 What do you hear?

01:32:42.000 You hear crime statistics.

01:32:44.000 You know, you hear Nancy Grace with 2 Chainz debating about marijuana.

01:32:49.000 I mean, really, that's what you hear. 1.00

01:32:52.000 You hear bullshit, nonsense. 0.99

01:32:53.000 You don't hear any soul. 1.00

01:32:55.000 You know, no one's got a goddamn heart. 0.99

01:32:58.000 No one recognizes the fact that this is a temporary existence. 0.99

01:33:02.000 We're going through a temporary existence, and there are so many of us.

01:33:06.000 And there's pockets that seem almost unmanageable, because they've been fucked over for hundreds of years, and there's just a swarming chaos in these areas.

01:33:15.000 And they're riding on momentum, and they're riding on the momentum of decades and decades of poverty and crime and a cycle of despair. 0.96

01:33:25.000 And it's going to be hard to fix that shit, but it's critical, and it's one of the most important aspects of our civilization. 0.99

01:33:32.000 If we don't fix that, our civilization is nonsense. 0.99

01:33:35.000 Our civilization is only as strong as the weakest links.

01:33:38.000 And it just makes sense to me, and I've always said this, the best way to strengthen America.

01:33:43.000 People want to talk about a strong America?

01:33:45.000 Are you a patriot?

01:33:46.000 Do you love America?

01:33:47.000 Good. 0.99

01:33:49.000 Less losers. 0.75

01:33:50.000 Make less losers. 0.76

01:33:51.000 Then you have a stronger America. 1.00

01:33:53.000 Go to the fucking neighborhoods that are fucked. 1.00

01:33:55.000 Go to the communities that are fucked. 1.00

01:33:57.000 Go to these deeply entrenched in crime areas and fix them. 1.00

01:34:03.000 You fix them, then you got winners.

01:34:06.000 Instead of 10,000 people in jail, you've got 10,000 people that are starting small businesses.

01:34:11.000 You've got 10,000 people that are venturing out into the world and trying to do good and influencing other people to do the same and spreading a positive message and influencing people with inspiration.

01:34:22.000 And then other people see, hey, this guy became this.

01:34:25.000 I can do this, too.

01:34:26.000 And then they do it, too.

01:34:27.000 And then other people say, then you've got a better country.

01:34:30.000 It's not that hard. 1.00

01:34:31.000 Instead of being a fucking vampire and arresting people for crack and pulling people over and doing the same goddamn shit that everybody's been doing for the last hundred years. 1.00

01:34:41.000 It's striking how much we do things similar. 1.00

01:34:44.000 One of the things we found when we were messing around digging through files is we found an action plan.

01:34:50.000 And these action plans, like, so a big crime happens and the shift commander will draw up an action plan and send it up, what he's going to do to address this problem.

01:34:57.000 And this action plan was from the 1970s.

01:34:59.000 We found it in like 2010. Whoa.

01:35:01.000 You found it?

01:35:02.000 We found it in a drawer.

01:35:03.000 And it was the exact same action plan as the other ship commander was doing.

01:35:08.000 It was like the same corners, the same response, the same plan.

01:35:13.000 So like for 40 years, nobody's changed anything.

01:35:17.000 And you have the same corners being the same problems with the same families and doing the same things. 0.98

01:35:22.000 And the police are doing the exact same goddamn thing in response. 0.99

01:35:26.000 Wow. 0.98

01:35:27.000 It's unbelievable how we're doing this, and that's what these talks have to get us to do, is to do exactly what you're saying, communicate, lift up the country.

01:35:36.000 It doesn't make any sense that we would treat a medical problem like it's a criminal problem and put those people into a jail cell.

01:35:45.000 Drug addicts.

01:35:45.000 To drug addicts into a jail cell.

01:35:47.000 It doesn't make any sense.

01:35:49.000 Sorry, what happens to the cop that's on the beat right now in Baltimore?

01:35:53.000 What happens to the cops that are listening to this right now? 0.99

01:35:55.000 What the fuck can they do? 0.98

01:35:56.000 These guys have an incredibly hard time right now because, like you're saying with Bats, he's not leading the agency properly. 0.99

01:36:04.000 The FOP is doing some crazy things as well.

01:36:07.000 Calling the uprising, lynch mobs going after, wanting to send their officers down the pike and doing all these things.

01:36:15.000 We need justice.

01:36:16.000 We need something.

01:36:17.000 The case needs to be heard in court for anybody to have any semblance that this is going to be real and this is going to be just.

01:36:23.000 Because in the past, we know it's all been covered up.

01:36:27.000 So if we continue to cover up, which is the problem that happened in Ferguson, is the cover-up.

01:36:30.000 The problem isn't the shooting. 1.00

01:36:31.000 The problem is the damn cover-up. 1.00

01:36:33.000 That prosecutor's a criminal. 1.00

01:36:35.000 He criminally covered up that indictment.

01:36:37.000 There's no way around it.

01:36:38.000 That's what they did, and no one seemed to care.

01:36:40.000 What did he do?

01:36:41.000 Highlight what happened.

01:36:42.000 So...

01:36:43.000 When you have an indictment, the old saying is, is you can indict a ham cheese sandwich.

01:36:47.000 Because the prosecutor goes up there and his job, or her job, is to select the evidence that will get the charge.

01:36:56.000 So the way that system actually is, is if there's four of us in the room right now, if three of us think he did it and one doesn't, we don't even listen to the one that does it.

01:37:06.000 That's how an indictment works.

01:37:08.000 If you're not a reliable witness, you don't even come in for the indictment.

01:37:11.000 But in that case, he brought in unreliable witnesses, brought in everybody to taint the whole thing, when all he should have brought in was the case that, okay, so this guy was shot, and he was found this way, and these witnesses say that he put his hands up.

01:37:26.000 And you would have had an indictment.

01:37:28.000 And you would have had a trial.

01:37:30.000 And you would have...

01:37:31.000 He would have...

01:37:31.000 I think that shooting was justified.

01:37:33.000 So Darren Wilson would have been...

01:37:35.000 Exonerated.

01:37:36.000 Exonerated.

01:37:37.000 And everything would have been fine.

01:37:38.000 But we would have at least heard the case.

01:37:40.000 The problem is, is that the police walk away with nothing. 0.97

01:37:44.000 So it's like, you shoot him.

01:37:46.000 Oh no, we're not going to indict it.

01:37:48.000 Okay, see you later.

01:37:49.000 Good luck.

01:37:49.000 Looks like everything was clear.

01:37:51.000 We need to see more than that.

01:37:52.000 That's why when you see the indictment, South Carolina, there was no uprising.

01:37:57.000 We had a shooting in Baltimore just not too long ago where a guy was robbing a 7-Eleven, I think, and the officer came in and shot him.

01:38:02.000 There's some speculation the guy wasn't even armed.

01:38:04.000 But he was robbing a store, so nobody freaks out.

01:38:07.000 The problem is when you have somebody unarmed with no clear crime, and it's just, okay, that's what happened.

01:38:12.000 He was afraid.

01:38:14.000 Fear is not enough justification to shoot somebody, but that's what the law says.

01:38:17.000 The law says that if you're in fear of your life as an officer, you can pull that trigger.

01:38:22.000 That's preposterous.

01:38:23.000 You have to at least be some assemblance of containing your situation and not just being afraid of everything.

01:38:31.000 So everybody has a gun, which, you know, that's an American problem.

01:38:34.000 But they feel like everybody is a threat and you're ingrained into this threat.

01:38:38.000 So they run around with fear and they shoot in a heartbeat because they're so afraid.

01:38:43.000 And then they just come behind and they cover it all up like nothing happened.

01:38:47.000 And that's when you get an uprising.

01:38:49.000 It's just when there's no justice.

01:38:51.000 That's what Marilyn Mosby did. 1.00

01:38:54.000 Was there uprisings after she came out and said, okay, we're going to charge the officers?

01:38:57.000 No, because it's not that anybody's rushed into judgment.

01:39:00.000 It's not that it's a lynch mob.

01:39:01.000 It's let this play out in court.

01:39:03.000 I think the two lower officers are going to get off.

01:39:05.000 I don't think that they did anything particularly wrong.

01:39:07.000 They were following their lieutenant.

01:39:09.000 They might have some things.

01:39:10.000 They might not be cops, but they didn't do anything terribly wrong.

01:39:13.000 But you want to hear the case and you want to know what happened.

01:39:17.000 We have to know what happened.

01:39:18.000 Just because a guy has a gun and we give him a badge and he has a GED and he went to eight months of training doesn't make him above the world.

01:39:27.000 It doesn't make him a separate set of rules.

01:39:32.000 You think that the Ferguson shooting was justified? 0.86

01:39:36.000 I can't go as far as to say it's justified.

01:39:37.000 I think the evidence would say that it would be ruled justified.

01:39:40.000 I don't know.

01:39:41.000 Because he struck the officer, and he was at close range, and it seems like he was trying to get his gun.

01:39:45.000 Yeah, I mean, in that situation, I think you give the benefit of the doubt to the officer.

01:39:49.000 But why were there so many people that disagreed?

01:39:53.000 The hands up and all that stuff?

01:39:55.000 Right.

01:39:55.000 Who knows?

01:39:56.000 Did he have his hands up?

01:39:57.000 Who knows?

01:39:58.000 But I think that's enough justification to find that out.

01:40:02.000 Right.

01:40:02.000 And how would they find that out?

01:40:04.000 At least have the witnesses on stand.

01:40:05.000 But it would just be questioning witnesses.

01:40:07.000 It would just be eyewitness information.

01:40:09.000 Sure, sure.

01:40:10.000 But let's hear it.

01:40:11.000 You know, maybe it gets out, but it's exonerated and everything's fine.

01:40:14.000 But let's hear it.

01:40:15.000 We need to hear.

01:40:17.000 We know that we have a history of officers... 0.99

01:40:22.000 We're unjustly shooting black males, especially unarmed. 0.98

01:40:25.000 We know we have that. 0.98

01:40:26.000 So that means we must have an extra level of scrutiny.

01:40:30.000 We have to.

01:40:31.000 What is the situation in Cleveland with the 12-year-old kid that was at the schoolyard?

01:40:37.000 That guy's being indicted on murder charges, right?

01:40:40.000 Last I knew he wasn't, that judge suggested that he...

01:40:44.000 There was a judge that said there was enough probable cause to warrant the charging.

01:40:48.000 But somebody else actually has to do that charging.

01:40:51.000 I don't believe that's taking place. 0.93

01:40:52.000 See, that one doesn't make any fucking sense at all. 1.00

01:40:54.000 That was a fucking murder. 1.00

01:40:55.000 It was a murder. 1.00

01:40:55.000 It was absolutely... 1.00

01:40:56.000 There's no justification for that.

01:40:57.000 There's not been a single thing I've ever watched that affected me. 0.99

01:41:01.000 More than watching those fucking cops murder Tamir Rice and then stand over that boy, a 12-year-old boy, as he was bleeding out and choking. 0.99

01:41:10.000 They stood there and he's worried. 1.00

01:41:13.000 Conjecture.

01:41:14.000 It looks like he's worried.

01:41:15.000 Oh my God, I'm in this situation.

01:41:17.000 What am I going to do? 1.00

01:41:18.000 As a 12-year-old boy fucking chokes on his own blood, dying, and he stands there. 1.00

01:41:23.000 Stands there. 1.00

01:41:24.000 Doing nothing until someone else comes over and finally helps that boy.

01:41:27.000 And he's not being indicted?

01:41:28.000 Are we kidding me? 1.00

01:41:29.000 That's fucking murder. 0.99

01:41:30.000 I'm sorry. 1.00

01:41:31.000 And he shot him within two seconds.

01:41:32.000 It was less than two seconds.

01:41:33.000 It was like 1.6 seconds.

01:41:34.000 They rush up on that kid.

01:41:36.000 There's no justification for any of them.

01:41:38.000 What's happening in Cleveland is absurd.

01:41:41.000 There's no doubt about it.

01:41:42.000 Is Cleveland like Baltimore?

01:41:44.000 The same sort of cycle?

01:41:46.000 I have no reason to believe that Cleveland, Baltimore, Ferguson, Atlanta, any of those places are different.

01:41:52.000 I think we can take an officer.

01:41:53.000 Something just happened in Philly just now before I walked in here.

01:41:56.000 A video was released of Philly officers, 12 Philly officers beating on somebody that was unarmed for apparently riding a bike or something like that.

01:42:04.000 I didn't get a chance to see.

01:42:06.000 But all of these things seem to be the same.

01:42:09.000 So if you took an officer out of Philly, you can put him in Baltimore.

01:42:11.000 He's fine.

01:42:12.000 When we had Hurricane Katrina, we took maybe 20 officers from New Orleans and brought them into the BPD. And they...

01:42:20.000 Not like they were like, oh my god, what are we doing?

01:42:23.000 It was the same thing. 1.00

01:42:25.000 Same shit. 1.00

01:42:26.000 Different report, that's all. 1.00

01:42:28.000 So it's just ghettos. 0.95

01:42:32.000 Ghettos, yes. 0.95

01:42:33.000 Black ghettos to a separate level. 1.00

01:42:36.000 Black ghettos. 1.00

01:42:36.000 It's mostly black ghettos, right? 1.00

01:42:38.000 Yeah, it's low-income, period. 0.85

01:42:39.000 It's the powerless, the voiceless, period.

01:42:42.000 But I think that institutional racism that we have throughout our society, it wasn't that long ago that we're having slaves, and we're still arguing over the Confederate flag.

01:42:50.000 I know you said something about that.

01:42:51.000 No, we're arguing about the Dukes of Hazzard.

01:42:53.000 I think you're confused, sir.

01:42:56.000 Yeah.

01:42:56.000 How about the fact that it flies over a state house until 2015?

01:43:01.000 It's goddamn crazy. 0.97

01:43:03.000 Yeah, that's unbelievable. 0.98

01:43:04.000 The fact that this is the first year that someone stepped up and stopped that from happening, and then people are freaking out.

01:43:10.000 This is about heritage!

01:43:12.000 Southern heritage!

01:43:13.000 Imagine a Nazi flag flying up.

01:43:17.000 I mean, oh, come on.

01:43:18.000 What did you say, though, about that flag?

01:43:20.000 Come on, I saw you say something.

01:43:21.000 What was it?

01:43:21.000 Oh, I said it about Daisy Duke.

01:43:23.000 I said the real flag was the Daisy Dukes, the shorts, because that was a flag of empowerment.

01:43:28.000 There never was an article of clothing.

01:43:31.000 Well, for females and for gay men. 1.00

01:43:34.000 Sluts and gay men. 1.00

01:43:35.000 There was never an article of clothing that just clearly outlined that you're hungry for dick. 1.00

01:43:41.000 There was one that we've ever created, and that's the Daisy Duke shorts. 1.00

01:43:46.000 Nobody wears Daisy Duke shorts if you don't want dick. 0.99

01:43:49.000 If you're a dude and you're wearing Daisy Duke shorts, you're hunting for dick. 1.00

01:43:52.000 And if you're a girl wearing Daisy Duke shorts, you're hunting for dick. 1.00

01:43:55.000 And there was never, like, a flag. 1.00

01:43:57.000 They threw up a flag that let people know they want some dick. 1.00

01:44:01.000 I don't have an objection. 0.99

01:44:02.000 It's true, right?

01:44:03.000 It's true. 0.99

01:44:04.000 That's the real fucking travesty. 1.00

01:44:06.000 What they should do is go over that fucking show, put the show back on the air, goddammit. 1.00

01:44:11.000 Go over that show with some CGI, put a goddamn American flag on the roof, and let's be done with this. 0.99

01:44:15.000 Yeah, how much would that be? 0.99

01:44:17.000 It costs. 1.00

01:44:17.000 They could do that shit. 1.00

01:44:18.000 If they can make the Hulk and the Avengers bounce through buildings and shit. 1.00

01:44:21.000 Make a Schwarzenegger look 20? 0.99

01:44:23.000 Yeah, you can't fucking fake a flag on the roof of a... 1.00

01:44:26.000 First of all, the real crime is to paint that fucking beautiful car that shitty color. 0.99

01:44:32.000 You took a 69 Charger or a 68 Charger, whichever one it was. 0.99

01:44:36.000 I think it was a 69. One of the most beautiful muscle cars ever created.

01:44:40.000 And you painted it like a goddamn Spanish hooker. 1.00

01:44:44.000 It's bullshit. 1.00

01:44:45.000 That's the real bullshit. 1.00

01:44:46.000 Paint that fucking thing orange with a stupid flag of a bunch of losers. 1.00

01:44:50.000 That's a loser flag, by the way. 1.00

01:44:53.000 Yeah, you heard me, folks. 0.98

01:44:54.000 You lost. 1.00

01:44:57.000 Treasonous assholes. 1.00

01:44:57.000 Yeah, it's like raising a flag in another country anyway. 1.00

01:44:59.000 Well, it's like raising a flag.

01:45:01.000 They wanted to win, and they didn't win.

01:45:03.000 It's about economics!

01:45:05.000 It's about economics!

01:45:06.000 Yeah, if you don't pay people, you make more money.

01:45:10.000 That's an economic choice.

01:45:11.000 I hear Jake Uygur's...

01:45:12.000 You know, when he spits...

01:45:14.000 Ding!

01:45:15.000 You know, the South represents and that flag represented a lot of things to people other than racism.

01:45:21.000 What they need is a new flag.

01:45:23.000 You need a new flag that represents the South alone and not a bunch of people that were fighting to keep racism.

01:45:29.000 You know, Dan Carlin said, That they should add to the flag.

01:45:34.000 Like, maybe keep that flag and put a broken chain on it that represents the abolishment of slavery.

01:45:41.000 That, like, it keeps Southern heritage within it and adds one thing to it.

01:45:44.000 I mean, that might be a thing. 0.99

01:45:45.000 But they could come up with another fucking flag. 0.99

01:45:47.000 The flag is just a symbol. 1.00

01:45:48.000 If you want a symbol of the South, Texas has a fucking beautiful flag. 0.98

01:45:53.000 Texas has a flag and the star of Texas, and nobody ever thinks of it representing racism or represent... 1.00

01:45:59.000 It's just fucking Texas. 0.99

01:46:00.000 The star of Texas is just the star of Texas. 1.00

01:46:03.000 That's legit.

01:46:04.000 Like, if you wear a Texas flag t-shirt on, everybody knows, well, that's a guy who's a fan of Texas.

01:46:09.000 You know what I'm saying? 0.58

01:46:09.000 It doesn't have any connotation that you hate black people, or you want racism, or you want slavery. 0.58

01:46:15.000 That's a legit flag. 1.00

01:46:16.000 They need to come up with a goddamn better flag. 0.98

01:46:19.000 I prefer a world with no flags. 0.99

01:46:20.000 A world with no flags?

01:46:22.000 Yeah.

01:46:22.000 Hmm.

01:46:23.000 Okay, what about the don't tread on me?

01:46:25.000 That's pretty slick.

01:46:26.000 I like that one.

01:46:26.000 Yeah.

01:46:27.000 Snake?

01:46:27.000 I don't know.

01:46:28.000 You can say it.

01:46:28.000 No?

01:46:29.000 Yeah, I mean, what do you say?

01:46:30.000 I mean, everybody has had a don't tread on me sign, but you really, you really scared of those people?

01:46:35.000 How about an eagle?

01:46:37.000 A bald eagle? 1.00

01:46:37.000 With a fucking talon full of rockets. 1.00

01:46:41.000 Got rockets in one, and then the other one, a dick. 1.00

01:46:45.000 He's got a dick in one hand. 0.99

01:46:46.000 Because now we're representing everybody. 1.00

01:46:48.000 I don't know. 1.00

01:46:49.000 I'm just talking shit. 0.98

01:46:50.000 I just think that, uh, yeah, the world, a world without flags, like ideally no ideology. 0.99

01:46:57.000 You know, ideally no, uh, no borders, ideally no nationalism.

01:47:03.000 No state pride.

01:47:04.000 Just be proud that you're a human being in the human race. 0.95

01:47:07.000 But there's some cool shit about having differences. 0.98

01:47:10.000 There's some cool shit that you can go to New Mexico and it's different than going to Michigan. 0.98

01:47:13.000 I like that. 0.97

01:47:14.000 I like variation.

01:47:16.000 I like people that are happy that they live in Los Angeles.

01:47:19.000 They have pride in their community.

01:47:20.000 Strikingly nice here.

01:47:21.000 I like it.

01:47:22.000 I've never been to the West Coast.

01:47:23.000 We were just driving around.

01:47:24.000 We went up the Pacific Coast to the Coastal Highway today and the canyon.

01:47:28.000 I can't remember what it's called.

01:47:29.000 Malibu Canyon?

01:47:29.000 Yeah.

01:47:30.000 It's beautiful.

01:47:31.000 One of my bikes so bad.

01:47:32.000 I was hurting.

01:47:33.000 It's like, where can I rent a motorcycle?

01:47:35.000 Malibu Canyon Road is amazing.

01:47:36.000 It was unbelievable.

01:47:37.000 We've never seen anything like that.

01:47:38.000 But in the Northeast, we have water.

01:47:41.000 Oh, yeah.

01:47:42.000 Yeah, we'll steal water from Seattle. 0.67

01:47:43.000 They ain't gonna do shit about it either. 0.86

01:47:45.000 Sup!

01:47:46.000 Take that water, son. 1.00

01:47:47.000 Give me that shit! 1.00

01:47:48.000 This is what I think. 1.00

01:47:49.000 If they could bring fucking oil down from Alaska, why can't they bring water? 0.99

01:47:52.000 Yeah, of course they can. 1.00

01:47:53.000 You hook a big tube up to one of those melting glaciers, you steal all that fucking water, and we're good. 0.99

01:47:59.000 And then we irrigate the shit out of this bitch and turn it into a tropical rainforest. 1.00

01:48:03.000 Just giant sprinklers in the sky. 0.99

01:48:06.000 You know, giant ones, like 30,000 feet up, just spraying. 1.00

01:48:09.000 Shit! 1.00

01:48:11.000 Come on, man. 1.00

01:48:12.000 You can make a hyperloop that can get to San Francisco in five seconds, like what Elon Musk is trying to do.

01:48:18.000 You can't put a sprinkler system in the sky.

01:48:20.000 You can't steal water out of the icebergs.

01:48:22.000 Everybody's worried about global warming.

01:48:24.000 With the icebergs melt, the Malibu's going to disappear. 1.00

01:48:28.000 Fuck it is. 1.00

01:48:28.000 We're going to put a big goddamn tube. 1.00

01:48:32.000 And suck all those icebergs and spray it all over the avocado fields. 0.99

01:48:37.000 That sounds crazy, but watch that be the solution. 0.97

01:48:39.000 It is the solution.

01:48:40.000 It's why not? 0.96

01:48:40.000 If you can get oil from Saudi Arabia, buy millions and millions of gallons in tankers, and bring it across the goddamn ocean to America, you're telling me you can't take water from somewhere and bring it down here? 0.96

01:48:53.000 That's stupid. 1.00

01:48:54.000 Of course they can. 1.00

01:48:56.000 The problem is...

01:48:58.000 Can they get enough water? 1.00

01:48:59.000 Because we use a lot of fucking water. 0.99

01:49:01.000 There's a lot of golf courses here. 1.00

01:49:02.000 People like to golf.

01:49:02.000 A lot of white people.

01:49:03.000 And there's almonds.

01:49:05.000 Almonds apparently suck up a lot of water.

01:49:06.000 And a lot of people have pools.

01:49:08.000 There's a lot of issues.

01:49:09.000 But I think they can be engineered.

01:49:11.000 You know, the real issue is...

01:49:13.000 You know, there's a lot of global warming talk, but I think places have always turned.

01:49:19.000 You know, there's always been like...

01:49:21.000 I mean, all you have to do is just look back to the Ice Age, and you realize, well, there's not an Ice Age anymore, so something happened.

01:49:27.000 There's some change.

01:49:28.000 We don't live in a static place, but we're so arrogant, we feel like if we build a city, we could stay.

01:49:35.000 You know, this is it.

01:49:36.000 We're here now.

01:49:36.000 But if this becomes a Sahara, you know, go to the Sahara Desert.

01:49:40.000 What do you find? 0.99

01:49:40.000 You don't find a lot of fucking people. 0.99

01:49:42.000 There's a reason. 0.99

01:49:42.000 There's nothing there. 0.99

01:49:43.000 You can't live off of it.

01:49:44.000 What are you going to eat, man?

01:49:45.000 You going to eat your camel?

01:49:47.000 If you don't eat your camel, there's not a lot to eat.

01:49:49.000 You know?

01:49:49.000 And that's just the reality of being a human being.

01:49:52.000 If we live on this earth...

01:49:54.000 Occasionally you have to move.

01:49:56.000 Because the spot sucks now.

01:49:57.000 You know? 0.53

01:49:58.000 This spot is fantastic.

01:49:59.000 You're here for the first time?

01:50:01.000 But listen. 0.99

01:50:02.000 There's a reason why there's 30 million fucking people stuffed into this area. 0.99

01:50:06.000 It's because it's a sweet spot. 0.99

01:50:07.000 But all it would take is one of those... 0.99

01:50:11.000 The rock-style earthquakes from that new fucking movie, one real one, which has happened before. 0.97

01:50:17.000 They've had some giant ones in spots all over the world that we know of, you know, that human beings don't have a record of, that have just been just unbelievably devastating. 0.98

01:50:28.000 All we'd need is one of those.

01:50:29.000 Just one.

01:50:30.000 And everybody would scatter like ants.

01:50:32.000 And then you go to Boulder, Colorado, it'd be overrun with chicks from Santa Monica. 1.00

01:50:38.000 It'd be dudes on Adderall with fucking Botox faces. 1.00

01:50:42.000 Driving their Teslas around Boulder. 1.00

01:50:44.000 Hey, I love the Teslas.

01:50:45.000 That's what it would become.

01:50:46.000 It's a nice car.

01:50:47.000 It's fast, too.

01:50:48.000 It's a good car.

01:50:49.000 It's beautiful.

01:50:51.000 But you guys, it's too cold in Baltimore. 1.00

01:50:53.000 That's bullshit. 1.00

01:50:54.000 Yeah, we had a bad winter. 1.00

01:50:56.000 It's nothing.

01:50:57.000 I grew up in Boston.

01:50:59.000 Yeah, which is worse.

01:51:00.000 Way worse.

01:51:00.000 Boston's beautiful too, though.

01:51:02.000 Oh, that city.

01:51:03.000 I've walked in.

01:51:04.000 It's alright.

01:51:06.000 It's okay. 0.99

01:51:07.000 You can fucking have it for five months a year. 0.99

01:51:09.000 Yes, that's true. 1.00

01:51:10.000 I went in summertime, so I'm talking about my ass a bit. 0.99

01:51:13.000 Summertime in Boston is amazing. 0.99

01:51:14.000 It's like I'm going to Chicago at the end of the month and I'm fucking psyched because Chicago in the summer is amazing.

01:51:21.000 You know why?

01:51:22.000 Because those people appreciate the fact that it's the summer.

01:51:25.000 Summer in LA is every day.

01:51:27.000 It could be 90 in January here.

01:51:30.000 I mean, it's happened many times.

01:51:31.000 Right, Jamie?

01:51:32.000 You've experienced 90. Yeah.

01:51:33.000 Walking around in shorts, flip-flops, t-shirt, 90. It's beautiful.

01:51:37.000 January.

01:51:38.000 Convertible.

01:51:39.000 75 today.

01:51:40.000 75. It's nice.

01:51:41.000 It's July.

01:51:42.000 I know.

01:51:42.000 It's a nice day today.

01:51:43.000 It was 60 this morning when I woke up.

01:51:45.000 I had to get up early.

01:51:46.000 It was 60. 6-0.

01:51:49.000 Mmm.

01:51:50.000 Yeah, that doesn't happen for us.

01:51:51.000 No.

01:51:52.000 Right now, it's brutally hot.

01:51:53.000 Yeah, well, you guys get that swampy hot, too. 0.62

01:51:55.000 Nasty.

01:51:56.000 Yeah, that East Coast hot is a different kind of hot.

01:51:59.000 Like Miami, you don't even know what hot is until you experience Miami in August.

01:52:03.000 You might as well be in Africa. 1.00

01:52:05.000 You're in the goddamn jungle. 1.00

01:52:06.000 You know? 1.00

01:52:07.000 You want to hear a funny car chase story?

01:52:09.000 I want to hear all your funny car chase stories.

01:52:11.000 Okay.

01:52:12.000 How many you got?

01:52:12.000 Three.

01:52:14.000 Okay.

01:52:16.000 So, my first car chase...

01:52:19.000 This is how far after the guy having some other dude's pants on?

01:52:24.000 About a year.

01:52:25.000 A year.

01:52:26.000 So you're in.

01:52:27.000 So I have a partner.

01:52:29.000 I usually don't have partners in Baltimore.

01:52:31.000 I had a partner on this particular day.

01:52:33.000 Really?

01:52:33.000 Yeah, you ride by yourself.

01:52:34.000 What?

01:52:35.000 What is that, to save money?

01:52:37.000 I think more of an omnipresence idea.

01:52:39.000 Oh, the more people, the more cops, more cops.

01:52:42.000 It doesn't really work, I think. 0.98

01:52:43.000 You ever jerk off in your car? 0.97

01:52:45.000 No. 0.99

01:52:45.000 No? 0.99

01:52:45.000 All right. 0.99

01:52:46.000 Try to slip one on me there real quick.

01:52:48.000 Just asking.

01:52:48.000 I would.

01:52:49.000 I get bored.

01:52:52.000 So, I have this partner.

01:52:54.000 He looks like Sammy Davis Jr. Oh, Jesus Christ.

01:52:56.000 Great guy.

01:52:57.000 Great guy.

01:52:57.000 We would go to calls.

01:52:58.000 Did you call him Sammy Davis Jr.?

01:52:59.000 I mean, maybe.

01:53:00.000 Sometimes joking.

01:53:02.000 He was...

01:53:03.000 Other people did.

01:53:04.000 He looked that bad.

01:53:05.000 You were kind of a Sinatra when he was younger.

01:53:06.000 Oh, gosh.

01:53:07.000 You ever see Sinatra when he got arrested?

01:53:08.000 Nobody else thought of that.

01:53:09.000 Hold on a second.

01:53:10.000 Pull up Sinatra's mugshot.

01:53:15.000 He was a tiny dude.

01:53:16.000 You know, Sinatra only weighed like 125 pounds.

01:53:18.000 No, no, no, not you.

01:53:19.000 You're handsome like Sinatra.

01:53:21.000 You're muscular and big, I get it.

01:53:22.000 But you're not tiny.

01:53:23.000 You're an average guy.

01:53:24.000 But I'm saying, Sinatra was like 130 pounds.

01:53:27.000 He was like a tiny dude.

01:53:28.000 Look at that.

01:53:29.000 Come on, dude.

01:53:30.000 You're a little better looking than him, I'm gonna be honest.

01:53:33.000 What is...

01:53:34.000 Where's his...

01:53:35.000 What are they arrested him for?

01:53:36.000 Because there's like a little card that had the...

01:53:39.000 There's a thing below it.

01:53:40.000 There was a...

01:53:41.000 I used to have it on my wall at home, actually.

01:53:44.000 It's not that one...

01:53:47.000 But he was arrested and it had his height and weight.

01:53:50.000 For carrying on with a married woman? 0.99

01:53:51.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:53:52.000 It was called seduction.

01:53:53.000 That's what he got arrested for.

01:53:55.000 But there was actually a real piece of paper from the arrest that you could see.

01:54:01.000 They had it handwritten and everything, what he was arrested for.

01:54:06.000 See if we can find it.

01:54:07.000 But it had his height and weight, and I'm pretty sure he's 130 pounds, and he was like 5'6 or 5'7.

01:54:15.000 He's like a tiny little dude, which I never would have thought.

01:54:18.000 I thought, you know, Frank Sinatra would be like, it's just larger than life, you know?

01:54:23.000 I mean, like Tom Cruise kind of thing?

01:54:25.000 No, I think Tom Cruise is probably not as short as everybody says.

01:54:29.000 About 5'8", right?

01:54:29.000 Yeah, he might be a little shorter, like 5'7", maybe, but everybody says he's like 5'2", but people are just mean.

01:54:38.000 Well, Kareem, my partner, he was about 5'2", 5'3", little Sammy Davis Jr. Jesus Christ.

01:54:43.000 And he's a cop?

01:54:44.000 What is he?

01:54:44.000 A glutton for punishment?

01:54:45.000 He was good, too.

01:54:45.000 He was good?

01:54:46.000 Yeah, so good, because he blended in.

01:54:48.000 Nobody noticed him.

01:54:49.000 Oh, right.

01:54:50.000 Yeah, no one's scared of a 5'2 black guy, right?

01:54:53.000 We would go to places and he would be the nicest cop.

01:54:55.000 I mean, he was like what you think a cop is.

01:54:58.000 That was him.

01:54:59.000 He was so nice, so courteous. 1.00

01:55:01.000 And I'd show up behind him and be like, sit down, shut the fuck up. 1.00

01:55:04.000 Oh, you're a bad cop. 1.00

01:55:05.000 He would get the complaint.

01:55:06.000 I wouldn't.

01:55:06.000 It was unbelievably hilarious.

01:55:08.000 I don't know why.

01:55:09.000 It was just a running joke with us.

01:55:11.000 Right?

01:55:11.000 Because he's bar?

01:55:12.000 I can't throw that conjecture out there.

01:55:14.000 Most likely, right?

01:55:15.000 That's the first time I would have thought of that.

01:55:17.000 I thought it was just they didn't like him, or they liked me, I don't know.

01:55:19.000 I never thought of it as being a racial thing.

01:55:21.000 So we're going down a road, and we type a tag in a car, and it comes up, boop, boop, boop, stolen car. 0.99

01:55:28.000 I'm like, oh shit, dude. 0.99

01:55:30.000 What are we going to do? 0.99

01:55:31.000 Why would we be whispering?

01:55:32.000 I don't know.

01:55:32.000 But you start to panic.

01:55:34.000 And I'm like, alright, fuck it. 0.99

01:55:36.000 Let's just get out and I'll just yank him out of the car real quick because we're stuck in traffic. 1.00

01:55:39.000 Right.

01:55:40.000 So as soon as I jump out of the car, he looks over at me, the driver of the car, and he slams down his lock, door lock. 0.99

01:55:48.000 I'm like, fuck. 0.98

01:55:48.000 So I try to rip the door open and I can't do it. 0.98

01:55:50.000 So for some reason, instinctually, I pull out my gun and I'm like, get out of the car. 0.99

01:55:55.000 And he's like, no, fuck you, and it starts to turn green, and he's getting ready to go. 1.00

01:55:58.000 So I take my gun, and I hit it against the window. 1.00

01:56:01.000 The window doesn't break, my gun does.

01:56:04.000 And the rounds go flying on the ground, scattering out, and this is like noon. 0.98

01:56:08.000 And so everybody sees me doing this like a jackass. 0.93

01:56:11.000 What kind of gun? 0.99

01:56:12.000 A Glock.

01:56:13.000 Plastic.

01:56:14.000 Yeah, plastic gun. 1.00

01:56:14.000 Why'd you hit a fucking window with plastic? 1.00

01:56:16.000 I don't fucking know what I was thinking. 1.00

01:56:19.000 So instinctually, luckily, I reload. 0.98

01:56:22.000 Right.

01:56:23.000 And he takes off.

01:56:24.000 We run back into the car, and we're not going anywhere. 1.00

01:56:27.000 I'm like, Kareem, what the fuck? 0.99

01:56:28.000 Let's go. 0.99

01:56:29.000 And he's like, I can't find the keys.

01:56:31.000 I can't find the keys.

01:56:32.000 No.

01:56:33.000 So he gets the key.

01:56:34.000 We take off.

01:56:35.000 We go down the road.

01:56:36.000 What kind of car do you drive?

01:56:38.000 That was a Crown Vic at the time.

01:56:39.000 Okay. 0.97

01:56:40.000 Shitbox. 0.97

01:56:41.000 Cops love Crown Vicks. 1.00

01:56:42.000 Yeah, but they're stupid. 1.00

01:56:43.000 Big V8 in them. 1.00

01:56:44.000 Big fucking goofy car. 1.00

01:56:46.000 Shitty handling. 1.00

01:56:47.000 It's better if we drive Tauruses and shit they try to give us. 1.00

01:56:50.000 So we go down the road. 0.99

01:56:52.000 The guy makes a turn.

01:56:54.000 We lose him, but we kind of know his area, where he is.

01:56:58.000 And I see a guy that's running.

01:56:59.000 He had a blue bandana on.

01:57:02.000 He was a black guy, white t-shirt.

01:57:03.000 So I see a guy going down the alley, blue bandana, white t-shirt. 1.00

01:57:07.000 I'm like, fuck, Kareem, get out. 0.98

01:57:08.000 So he gets out, and he's coming from the guy behind. 0.99

01:57:10.000 I circle around with the car and come up.

01:57:13.000 And I come around the corner.

01:57:14.000 That guy's looking at me, and I'm like, get on the ground. 0.98

01:57:17.000 And he starts getting on the ground, and I'm looking at him like, fuck, this is not the same guy. 0.99

01:57:22.000 So I'm watching him, and Cream's coming up behind him, and he's like, pfft, coming hard. 0.97

01:57:26.000 I'm like, no, [...

01:57:28.000 Just as he's getting ready to hit him, and he pulls back as he's getting ready to slam him to the ground.

01:57:32.000 I'm like, this is not him!

01:57:33.000 So we leave him go, we run, and we actually find the car.

01:57:38.000 So the guy bowed out, and he left his cell phone in the car.

01:57:41.000 So we picked up the cell phone, and we called the most recent number, and a girl answered.

01:57:46.000 We're like, hey, you know, I'm so-and-so.

01:57:48.000 I found this phone on the side of the road.

01:57:50.000 Do you know who it belongs to?

01:57:51.000 I'll try to get it back to her.

01:57:52.000 She's like, oh yeah, it's so-and-so.

01:57:54.000 Pulled him up in the computer, and that was who had the car. 1.00

01:57:57.000 Oh my god, what a dumb bitch. 1.00

01:57:59.000 I'd be so mad at her. 1.00

01:58:01.000 I'd be like, what the fuck did you tell him? 1.00

01:58:03.000 Oh my god, you told him my fucking name? 1.00

01:58:05.000 Oh my god. 1.00

01:58:06.000 It's all in the report and everything.

01:58:07.000 Oh, that's hilarious.

01:58:09.000 Did you get the guy?

01:58:10.000 Somebody else did.

01:58:10.000 So we had the warrant and somebody else ended up catching him.

01:58:13.000 That's hilarious.

01:58:14.000 That was your first car chase?

01:58:15.000 My first car chase.

01:58:15.000 Why don't they give you guys like Mustangs or something fast?

01:58:18.000 Oh, I think that would be a bad idea.

01:58:20.000 Why?

01:58:21.000 You're in car chases.

01:58:21.000 We're not very responsible.

01:58:23.000 Is that what it is?

01:58:24.000 The law, we're not trained to drive like that.

01:58:27.000 What?

01:58:28.000 Wait a minute. 1.00

01:58:28.000 Hold the fuck on. 1.00

01:58:29.000 They don't train you how to drive? 1.00

01:58:31.000 Not high speed, no.

01:58:32.000 What?

01:58:32.000 No.

01:58:33.000 They let you drive high speed chases and they don't train you how to drive?

01:58:37.000 No, you're breaking the rules.

01:58:37.000 You're breaking the rules to do a high speed chase.

01:58:38.000 In Baltimore, you can't do more than 10 miles an hour.

01:58:41.000 In Maryland, you can't do more than 10 miles an hour over the speed limit according to the rules.

01:58:45.000 So the law says you can do it, but the rules of the agency say you can only do 10 miles an hour over.

01:58:50.000 So every cop that pulls you over and you're doing more than 10 miles per hour over the speed limit, he had to violate general orders to even pull you over.

01:58:57.000 What?

01:58:58.000 That's the rules.

01:58:59.000 I didn't make them.

01:59:00.000 Okay, so the department lets you do high-speed chases.

01:59:04.000 They don't like it, no.

01:59:06.000 So who lets you do it?

01:59:08.000 You do it until someone tells you no.

01:59:10.000 Okay.

01:59:11.000 But no one teaches you how to drive?

01:59:14.000 We go to a course, and they kind of do it, but the standards are incredibly low, and you don't go very fast.

01:59:19.000 So the standards for driving, are they more or less stringent than the standards for self-defense?

01:59:26.000 I don't think there's a standard in either. 0.99

01:59:30.000 That is so fucking crazy. 0.94

01:59:33.000 If you couldn't defend yourself going in, you're not going to be able to defend yourself coming out. 0.99

01:59:38.000 If you couldn't drive going in, you're not going to drive coming out.

01:59:40.000 If you couldn't shoot going in, you're not going to shoot coming out.

01:59:42.000 One of the scariest things is cops' ability to fire a weapon.

01:59:46.000 They're terrible.

01:59:47.000 They're terrible.

01:59:49.000 So, I would estimate that maybe...

01:59:51.000 You don't have to be accurate or anything?

01:59:53.000 No, no, it's absurd.

01:59:55.000 Like, they can't shoot. 0.94

01:59:56.000 So, like, when you hear somebody, like, why didn't you shoot him in the knee?

01:59:59.000 For one, you can't do that. 0.99

02:00:00.000 That's a silly idea.

02:00:02.000 But... 0.96

02:00:02.000 Why can't you? 0.96

02:00:03.000 Okay, so, if I'm shooting, for one, I'm shooting at your knee. 1.00

02:00:05.000 I'm shooting down. 0.99

02:00:06.000 So, I'm liable to ricochet.

02:00:08.000 Because I'm going to miss.

02:00:09.000 Right.

02:00:09.000 You're going to be a moving target.

02:00:11.000 You know how hard it is to shoot an animal.

02:00:12.000 So imagine shooting a human in such a tiny area that's trying to move. 0.78

02:00:16.000 Especially with a handgun. 0.98

02:00:16.000 Right. 0.98

02:00:16.000 You can't do it. 0.98

02:00:17.000 It's a silly idea. 0.99

02:00:18.000 That's why you shoot center mass. 0.99

02:00:20.000 Right.

02:00:20.000 People criticize that, but it's really the only practical way to do it.

02:00:25.000 So you would shoot animals, too. 0.93

02:00:27.000 Yeah. 0.96

02:00:28.000 Very rarely shoot animals in the head.

02:00:29.000 Imagine that.

02:00:30.000 Even if you were standing there, imagine trying to take out a kneecap of a boar sitting there. 0.99

02:00:34.000 That's ridiculous. 0.99

02:00:36.000 So hopefully one day we can all dispel that rumor about shooting a weapon at me. 1.00

02:00:40.000 Somebody will be like, why don't you shoot the knife out of his hand? 0.99

02:00:42.000 Are you kidding me? 0.99

02:00:43.000 That's impossible.

02:00:43.000 That's hilarious.

02:00:44.000 But they couldn't shoot a person, let alone a knee.

02:00:50.000 Right.

02:00:51.000 The standard, the minimum score is like a 70, and it's a silhouette target.

02:00:57.000 The minimum score meaning 70%?

02:01:00.000 70% on a silhouette target.

02:01:01.000 70% hitting a silhouette?

02:01:03.000 You just have to hit the whole silhouette?

02:01:05.000 Right, from the 3 to the 5 to the 7 to the 15. I can shoot that whole course at the 15 with my eyes closed and pass it.

02:01:11.000 Right.

02:01:12.000 15 yards, is that what it is?

02:01:14.000 So 15 yards with a handgun hitting center mass on a target.

02:01:17.000 All you have to do is just hit the target?

02:01:18.000 Right, and you can pass the course by doing everything from the 3, the 5, and I think the 7. How big is this target?

02:01:24.000 It's a human silhouette.

02:01:26.000 A full silhouette down to the toes?

02:01:28.000 From waist up, okay.

02:01:30.000 So you're dealing with like a two and a half foot, three foot target?

02:01:33.000 Yeah, it's almost impossible to miss.

02:01:36.000 And all you have to do is get 70% and you pass?

02:01:39.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:01:39.000 So you miss 30% at 15 yards, a giant fucking target? 1.00

02:01:44.000 We're not even talking about 15 yards. 0.99

02:01:46.000 We're talking about, I mean, some of these are from three.

02:01:48.000 Wait a minute.

02:01:49.000 So you start from the three, you do a lot of rounds. 1.00

02:01:52.000 And they get set, hold the fuck on. 0.99

02:01:54.000 70%? 0.99

02:01:55.000 Right, so you can actually qualify before you even go deep.

02:01:58.000 But you're not even shooting a person.

02:01:59.000 I know.

02:01:59.000 So this isn't even adrenaline, it's not even crazy?

02:02:02.000 No, this is ideal situation.

02:02:04.000 Ideal circumstances.

02:02:06.000 It should be 100%!

02:02:08.000 I know! 0.97

02:02:08.000 100% or they kill you. 0.97

02:02:10.000 They should kill you. 1.00

02:02:10.000 Take you back a piece. 1.00

02:02:12.000 Yeah, 100% maybe get a different try.

02:02:14.000 I've had 98% from time to time.

02:02:16.000 They shouldn't be there.

02:02:18.000 It's staggering.

02:02:19.000 People don't understand what we're talking about.

02:02:21.000 When you say the job is impossible, it is completely impossible, especially with the amount of training that they have.

02:02:27.000 Oh my god.

02:02:28.000 I don't understand how they don't train you how to do that.

02:02:31.000 They don't train you how to use firearms correctly?

02:02:35.000 Accuracy?

02:02:35.000 They're treating you how to breathe while you're shooting?

02:02:37.000 They tell you all these things, but they don't have time.

02:02:42.000 So the instructors, they know what they're doing, but they don't have time to take somebody that has no idea what the hell they're doing, or what's even worse is somebody that has bad habits, and break those habits so they can be a decent shooter.

02:02:55.000 There's no time for it, and it's not going to happen.

02:02:57.000 There's no standards.

02:02:58.000 So if they don't pass, they just keep shooting them and shooting and shooting until you pass.

02:03:02.000 So you just keep doing it, or you learn?

02:03:06.000 There's no learning.

02:03:07.000 And you only do it once a year.

02:03:10.000 What?

02:03:11.000 Wait a minute.

02:03:12.000 No practice. 1.00

02:03:12.000 What the fuck are you talking about? 1.00

02:03:14.000 No practice once a year. 1.00

02:03:15.000 No.

02:03:16.000 Yes.

02:03:17.000 Oh my god.

02:03:19.000 Right, that's what I'm saying.

02:03:19.000 I couldn't do this job without the Marine Corps.

02:03:22.000 Oh my god.

02:03:23.000 So the only reason I was any good was for the Marine Corps.

02:03:26.000 How many guys were in the service that you worked with?

02:03:32.000 Maybe 20%.

02:03:35.000 So 80% have no experience...

02:03:38.000 Couldn't hit the broadside of a barn.

02:03:38.000 Oh my god.

02:03:44.000 So these people are in this situation where they have these expectations, and that's why they feel so cornered.

02:03:49.000 So they're actually feeling like they're being...

02:03:51.000 somebody's judging them.

02:03:53.000 And it's not so much that they're judging them, they're judging the...

02:03:57.000 Ineptitude to do the job.

02:03:58.000 It's a Will Ferrell movie.

02:04:00.000 You could do it.

02:04:01.000 I mean, that's what it feels like.

02:04:02.000 That's why I say...

02:04:02.000 Yeah, I say about the banter.

02:04:04.000 I mean, that's really...

02:04:05.000 It seems that way a lot. 0.87

02:04:07.000 Goddammit, I can't believe that. 0.94

02:04:09.000 Why don't I know that?

02:04:10.000 I should have known that.

02:04:11.000 I gotta get John McCarthy on.

02:04:13.000 He's the next guest.

02:04:14.000 You know Big John McCarthy?

02:04:17.000 I gotta get him on soon.

02:04:19.000 He's got some great stories about pulling over Eddie Murphy.

02:04:22.000 Oh, no.

02:04:24.000 I'm an Eddie Murphy fan.

02:04:25.000 I will only speak about him with respect.

02:04:28.000 And Charlie Murphy.

02:04:31.000 Anyway, so no self-defense training?

02:04:35.000 What is there is just pointless.

02:04:38.000 You don't have to have a certain degree of proficiency in hand-to-hand combat.

02:04:43.000 No, they do like wrist locks and carries and stuff like that.

02:04:48.000 Wrist locks?

02:04:49.000 Yeah, these are things that you know in a real scenario we can't do. 1.00

02:04:55.000 You gotta be a bad motherfucker to pull off a wrist lock. 0.99

02:04:57.000 You can do a drill and put me to the ground with my wrist. 1.00

02:05:01.000 But in real life, you're never getting my wrist.

02:05:02.000 Yeah.

02:05:03.000 It's just not gonna happen.

02:05:04.000 If I'm fighting for my life, or I'm trying to get away, it's just not gonna happen.

02:05:07.000 So the things we do just are impractical.

02:05:09.000 Well, Steven Seagal could get you to the ground if you gotta hold your wrist.

02:05:12.000 Have you ever seen him demonstrate?

02:05:14.000 I've seen it.

02:05:14.000 I don't, yeah, I don't.

02:05:14.000 Do you ever see the most recent one in Russia?

02:05:16.000 No, I'm afraid to.

02:05:17.000 Flipped a bunch of people around.

02:05:18.000 I'm sure.

02:05:19.000 His hair didn't move once.

02:05:20.000 Serious.

02:05:21.000 That hair helmet he's got.

02:05:23.000 Is he still nicely overweight?

02:05:26.000 Oh yeah, he's beautiful. 1.00

02:05:28.000 Beautiful fucking machine of hand-to-hand combat. 1.00

02:05:31.000 Watch this. 1.00

02:05:32.000 Take a look at this.

02:05:33.000 I like the do-rag. 0.98

02:05:35.000 Sweat that sweet do-rag. 0.88

02:05:37.000 Look at this.

02:05:37.000 See, this is what you guys need to learn.

02:05:39.000 This kind of shit. 1.00

02:05:40.000 Why can't you do that? 1.00

02:05:41.000 This is the kind of stuff they do, and they don't factor in the fact that their suspect is going to hook you in the face with that empty left hand.

02:05:49.000 But wait a minute.

02:05:50.000 Look how this guy can't do anything.

02:05:51.000 I know.

02:05:52.000 It's amazing.

02:05:52.000 It's almost like he practiced this before to be the victim in this situation.

02:05:58.000 Dude, you can't.

02:05:58.000 No, man.

02:05:58.000 I'm telling you.

02:05:59.000 You've got to get Steven Seagal to teach everybody.

02:06:01.000 Because look at the way he just throws everybody around.

02:06:03.000 They have no chance.

02:06:04.000 Look.

02:06:04.000 He doesn't even move.

02:06:05.000 Dude, learn this.

02:06:07.000 Why can't you just have him?

02:06:08.000 Isn't he a cop?

02:06:10.000 I thought he was too, like a voluntary one?

02:06:11.000 Yeah, no, he was a real cop.

02:06:13.000 Remember in Louisiana?

02:06:14.000 Remember he was talking like he was black?

02:06:16.000 If you keep talking about this, somebody's going to do this. 0.61

02:06:17.000 I think he's transracial.

02:06:19.000 I think he's transracial.

02:06:22.000 Did you ever hear him talk?

02:06:23.000 No, you're saying this now, but then there's gonna be some agency that does that and thought it was a good idea, and now it's all your fault.

02:06:28.000 They should.

02:06:29.000 Look at this.

02:06:29.000 This is beautiful.

02:06:30.000 If you could do this, you could kick anyone's ass. 1.00

02:06:32.000 They don't even let him in the UFC because he's too deadly. 1.00

02:06:34.000 We've had discussions.

02:06:35.000 That's why he's not there.

02:06:36.000 We've had behind-closed-door meetings of whether or not we should allow Steven Seagal to fight, and everyone says no.

02:06:41.000 He's too deadly.

02:06:41.000 You have to take Connor out, and they need him for that.

02:06:44.000 Connor's too small. 1.00

02:06:44.000 He'd be in a different weight class, but Cain Velasquez would be fucked. 1.00

02:06:47.000 Junior Dos Santos, what's he gonna do to that, huh? 0.97

02:06:50.000 What are you gonna do, Fabricio Verdum, if Steven Seagal gets a hold of your wrist?

02:06:54.000 Huh?

02:06:55.000 I haven't heard you.

02:06:55.000 Tax wrists!

02:06:58.000 That's a very vulnerable spot.

02:07:00.000 You know?

02:07:00.000 Ow!

02:07:01.000 Like, pull your hand back.

02:07:02.000 Ow! 1.00

02:07:02.000 So now the question is, why isn't Joe Rogan doing it? 1.00

02:07:05.000 Why don't I fight?

02:07:06.000 Yeah, why don't you teach?

02:07:06.000 No, why don't you teach the cops?

02:07:08.000 Well, I don't think I'm qualified, because I've never been in an armed situation with people shooting guns.

02:07:14.000 I've never learned how to disarm anybody.

02:07:16.000 Hand to hand.

02:07:17.000 We don't need disarm.

02:07:18.000 Well, I could, you know, I could give my opinions about some shit, but you should bring in legit striking coaches that teach people all the time, and then legit jiu-jitsu coaches. 0.93

02:07:27.000 Well, I think jiu-jitsu would be your route, because it's more about control than hurting. 0.95

02:07:33.000 Well, yes, but no.

02:07:35.000 Sometimes you've got to hit people.

02:07:36.000 The idea of only defending yourself by grappling, I think mixed martial arts is the best way to learn self-defense.

02:07:46.000 I'm essentially a mixed martial artist.

02:07:48.000 I started out as a striker, and then when I got older, when I got into the UFC, that's when I really learned grappling.

02:07:54.000 But I think if I had to choose one martial art that I would teach someone to defend themselves, it would definitely be jujitsu.

02:08:01.000 But as far as what I would teach police officers, you've got to understand striking.

02:08:05.000 Because if you don't understand striking and a guy can keep you off him and punch him in the face and you don't know how to deal with it, You gotta understand the way he's moving.

02:08:12.000 Like, if a guy is gonna jab you, there's a certain stance.

02:08:15.000 If a guy's gonna throw a right hand, there's tells.

02:08:18.000 If you don't know those tells, you're just gonna get mollywhopped.

02:08:21.000 You're just gonna get cracked.

02:08:23.000 I think you have to understand, at least understand striking.

02:08:26.000 And the only way to understand striking is to spar.

02:08:29.000 You have to do some sparring.

02:08:31.000 You have to definitely learn the mechanics of striking.

02:08:34.000 But you also have to understand the distance.

02:08:37.000 You have to understand when a guy can hit you, when he can't hit you.

02:08:39.000 Even if it's just defensive.

02:08:41.000 Even if you don't have any intention whatsoever of hitting somebody.

02:08:44.000 Just knowing how to get the fuck out of the way.

02:08:47.000 Knowing how to cover yourself up.

02:08:49.000 Knowing how to protect yourself. 1.00

02:08:50.000 There's a lot of people out there that are grapplers that would be fucked if someone punched them in the face. 0.98

02:08:54.000 I think you're onto something with that, actually, like the defensive method. 0.99

02:08:58.000 We're not going to really teach cops to strike.

02:09:00.000 You're just not going to get anywhere.

02:09:01.000 The best way to learn.

02:09:02.000 You're right.

02:09:03.000 The getaway, you might actually be onto something there.

02:09:06.000 That's something we probably should be doing, because what we do is we fear things.

02:09:09.000 So remember, we fear that that guy can hit us.

02:09:12.000 We fear that we should have an understanding of whether he or she would actually be capable at that range or capable in this particular situation. 1.00

02:09:20.000 Judo is good for cops too because people most of the time are wearing clothes and like if you ever fought Ronda Rousey and you were wearing a fucking like a winter coat, that bitch would fuck you up. 1.00

02:09:32.000 You're going flying. 1.00

02:09:33.000 You're landing on your head. 1.00

02:09:35.000 Carl Parisian gets a hold of you and you got like a leather jacket on, that motherfucker is gonna throw you and hit you with the earth. 1.00

02:09:41.000 That's what it's like when someone slams you, they're taking the earth and hitting you with it. 1.00

02:09:46.000 Boom! 0.99

02:09:47.000 They're hitting you with a giant, immobile, fucking 24,000 mile in a circumference ball. 1.00

02:09:55.000 That's what they're doing. 0.99

02:09:56.000 The earth doesn't give.

02:09:58.000 If someone slams you in the concrete, they're literally hitting you with the earth. 0.98

02:10:03.000 I think if a judo person gets a hold of you, some Jimmy Pedro character, gets a hold of you and you have a winter jacket on, you're a fucksville.

02:10:11.000 I think judo would be a very important thing to learn.

02:10:15.000 Wrestling, very important to learn too, because if you could hold someone down, you keep someone down, you can control someone.

02:10:20.000 Because I've seen situations where cops get flipped.

02:10:23.000 They're holding someone down in some sort of a rest video, and they just have no idea how to control someone's body.

02:10:29.000 They have no idea where to place their weight.

02:10:31.000 They have no idea how a person would move.

02:10:34.000 A good jiu-jitsu guy gets a hold of you and puts you inside control.

02:10:38.000 You don't have any jiu-jitsu training, you're not getting up.

02:10:41.000 This is just it.

02:10:41.000 You're stuck.

02:10:42.000 You might be really physically strong.

02:10:44.000 You might be able to push him a little bit, but he's going to grab a hold of you again and repeat the process.

02:10:49.000 That's what we saw in UFC 1 when Hoist Gracie was fighting chemo.

02:10:53.000 What did we see? 0.98

02:10:53.000 We saw this fucking enormous steroided up dude that's way stronger than Hoist Gracie. 0.98

02:10:58.000 And he just, chaos! 0.98

02:11:00.000 But eventually Hoist got him.

02:11:01.000 And why did he get him?

02:11:02.000 He got him because he understands the technique and he understands how to grapple.

02:11:05.000 I think that for one, if you only had one, I would say Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

02:11:10.000 But if I was going to teach something to cops, I would definitely teach them striking. 0.91

02:11:12.000 The last thing you want to do is be someone who doesn't know how to strike and you get punched in the face and you're seeing stars, your eyes are watery, your legs are buckled and you don't know what the fuck to do because you've never been there before.

02:11:23.000 Someone who knows what to do, someone who's been there before, has been popped in the face before, you gotta go, uh-oh, alright, gotta keep my hands up, gotta move, gotta move, gotta move, you know, you'll instinctively have, like, a path that you'll go to to preserve yourself.

02:11:35.000 The scariest thing in the world is watching someone in a street fight, and you know they don't know how to fight, and their neck is up in the air, and they're flailing fists, and you know it's coming, you know, you know it's coming.

02:11:46.000 We've all seen videos.

02:11:47.000 You can go online and watch a guy gets KO'd in a street fight, and there's a million videos of that.

02:11:53.000 I just can't believe that they don't force you guys to train, first of all, in firearms on a regular base.

02:12:00.000 I would have thought that it'd be a weekly thing.

02:12:01.000 I really thought that there was like a weekly thing that you guys had to do.

02:12:04.000 You know the physical standards as well. 0.81

02:12:06.000 Yeah, I've seen a lot of fat cops. 0.98

02:12:08.000 There's not a physical standard whatsoever. 0.93

02:12:09.000 Well, how about chicks?

02:12:10.000 I don't know.

02:12:11.000 No standards.

02:12:12.000 They don't have to have, uh, they don't have to at least be able to, like, lift their body weight up or something or do a chin-up or something like that?

02:12:18.000 No, you get through the academy and you're finished.

02:12:19.000 What do you have to do to get through the academy? 0.98

02:12:21.000 Whatever it is, it's pathetic and easy. 0.97

02:12:24.000 That seems weird. 0.95

02:12:25.000 It is weird.

02:12:27.000 In Baltimore they had an issue with a fire cadet who ended up dying in training because they just didn't maintain the physical standards they needed to make.

02:12:38.000 Now, why is that?

02:12:40.000 Is it hard to get people to join the police force?

02:12:42.000 So you have to lower the physical standards?

02:12:45.000 That's one reason why the job is impossible.

02:12:47.000 Society doesn't seem to be willing...

02:12:48.000 Okay, so at this point in time, not to sound too arrogant...

02:12:53.000 Too late.

02:12:54.000 Too late, okay.

02:12:55.000 So may as well go for it.

02:12:57.000 I would be the prototype, okay?

02:12:59.000 I have a master's degree.

02:13:01.000 I'm confident.

02:13:02.000 I came from the military.

02:13:04.000 If you go through my training record, you'll see it.

02:13:06.000 It's all there.

02:13:07.000 I would be the prototype.

02:13:08.000 I'm what you're looking for.

02:13:10.000 But I still...

02:13:12.000 You're not willing to pay me what it would take to get somebody like me normally to do it.

02:13:19.000 Right now, if I went into a police department, they would be offering me $42,000 a year.

02:13:25.000 Really?

02:13:25.000 I mean, you don't think I'm going to take a $42,000 a year job, do you, at this point in time?

02:13:29.000 It's not going to happen.

02:13:31.000 So they're not investing in those officers.

02:13:34.000 I really think in most areas, like in Baltimore, you have 3,000 officers, I really think you could do your job with 1,000.

02:13:39.000 So you would pay those guys, you would get those guys, and you'd get the guys with the education and girls, and have those standards.

02:13:47.000 And I really think that one really, really good cop can do the job of the four or five of what we have now.

02:13:55.000 How much harder is it to be a woman and be a cop? 1.00

02:13:59.000 Incredibly hard.

02:14:00.000 I would imagine it'd be really hard to get people's respect.

02:14:03.000 Some of them were so freaking good, though.

02:14:05.000 So that's the weird line you tow.

02:14:07.000 They do seem to make better detectives, as a general rule.

02:14:12.000 They have an advantage in a lot of things.

02:14:15.000 I think they're more empathetic, which is one of my big pushes.

02:14:18.000 They're more considerate of others when it comes to a lot.

02:14:22.000 It's harder for them with fighting, but I've seen some of them hold their own just fine. 0.87

02:14:26.000 The hardest one was actually a flamboyantly gay cop that I know. 1.00

02:14:31.000 He had the hardest time. 0.95

02:14:33.000 And I love that guy. 0.98

02:14:34.000 You guys not a flamboyantly gay cop? 0.98

02:14:35.000 I love him so much. 0.99

02:14:36.000 How gay was he?

02:14:37.000 Very. 0.98

02:14:38.000 He's the queen.

02:14:39.000 That's how he refers to himself.

02:14:40.000 He calls himself the queen?

02:14:42.000 Yeah, he's the queen of the northern. 0.95

02:14:43.000 That's beautiful.

02:14:43.000 That's what we need.

02:14:44.000 Just a fucking army of roiding up gay cops. 1.00

02:14:47.000 And he would fight all the time. 1.00

02:14:50.000 You could go to battle with that dude any day and you could trust that he would have your back.

02:14:54.000 You could follow him day and night because he was tried constantly.

02:14:59.000 And he became, he was always good.

02:15:01.000 Love that dude.

02:15:02.000 Awesome cop to work with.

02:15:03.000 But he was, he constantly lived in a different world than I did.

02:15:07.000 I was, maybe I fell into that medium frame where like I'm not too big to try and I'm not too small to try.

02:15:12.000 So I kind of got away with a lot.

02:15:14.000 He was tried all the time. 0.98

02:15:16.000 Because he's flamboyantly gay. 1.00

02:15:18.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:15:18.000 So, did he be like, license and registration? 0.98

02:15:21.000 He has the voice.

02:15:23.000 So, he really say that when he pulled people over and stuff?

02:15:25.000 Oh, yeah.

02:15:26.000 Where you going?

02:15:26.000 He had a purse for a while.

02:15:28.000 He had a purse?

02:15:29.000 Yeah.

02:15:29.000 I mean, think about that, though.

02:15:31.000 I love it.

02:15:31.000 Could you do it?

02:15:32.000 What, do I have a purse?

02:15:33.000 I mean, think about the curse.

02:15:34.000 I wear a fanny pack.

02:15:35.000 Think about...

02:15:35.000 That's true.

02:15:37.000 I actually...

02:15:38.000 You want one?

02:15:38.000 No.

02:15:38.000 I don't know.

02:15:39.000 Maybe.

02:15:40.000 Because you gave it to me, I think I do.

02:15:42.000 But...

02:15:43.000 I thought about that in the airport, like you say.

02:15:44.000 It would be so much easier.

02:15:46.000 Perfect!

02:15:48.000 People are just scared of not getting laid.

02:15:50.000 That's why they don't have it.

02:15:51.000 They're scared of the fashion stigma attached to it. 1.00

02:15:53.000 It's bullshit. 1.00

02:15:54.000 Maybe. 1.00

02:15:55.000 It's what it is. 1.00

02:15:56.000 I wear one of those motherfuckers everywhere. 1.00

02:15:58.000 People meet me and they go, dude, you're really wearing a fanny pack. 1.00

02:16:01.000 I'm like, that's right, bitch. 1.00

02:16:02.000 That shit's real as fuck. 1.00

02:16:09.000 Why is that a problem, but if I wear a backpack? 1.00

02:16:12.000 What I'm saying is that same confidence that you have was the confidence that he had.

02:16:16.000 That's because I'm married.

02:16:16.000 I'm not trying to get laid.

02:16:17.000 It was admirable. 0.98

02:16:18.000 If I was struggling to try to get laid, I was like, man, I was like fucking hitter. 0.97

02:16:21.000 It was just how to be dressed perfectly. 0.99

02:16:24.000 You know, that's why dudes wear cologne and shit like that and designer shoes. 0.98

02:16:27.000 Why? 0.99

02:16:27.000 Because they're fucking trying to tip the scales in their favor. 0.99

02:16:30.000 They're not confident in their personality and their accomplishments and how they come off as a human being. 0.99

02:16:34.000 You gotta wear the right clothes and the right style and that fanny pack could fucking sink your battleship. 1.00

02:16:39.000 Damn it! 1.00

02:16:40.000 I had her! 1.00

02:16:41.000 She could have been the one.

02:16:43.000 Could have been married and had kids. 1.00

02:16:44.000 That fucking stupid fanny pack. 1.00

02:16:47.000 I fucked my chances. 1.00

02:16:49.000 I don't know if that's why. 1.00

02:16:51.000 I think you've got enough game, you can do it with a fanny pack.

02:16:53.000 But that's what I think! 0.99

02:16:54.000 I think if a girl doesn't want to have sex with you or doesn't want to date you because you have a fanny pack, you don't want her in your life! 1.00

02:17:00.000 She's too much work! 1.00

02:17:02.000 That's too much work!

02:17:03.000 Or you don't know how to make fun of yourself.

02:17:05.000 You can't even mock the fact that you're wearing a fanny pack and then explain yourself?

02:17:09.000 Make a good joke out of it. 1.00

02:17:10.000 And she's like, why are you wearing a fanny pack, stupid? 1.00

02:17:11.000 And you're like, exactly. 1.00

02:17:15.000 Anyway, he wore a purse?

02:17:17.000 Yeah, he would keep his stuff in it.

02:17:18.000 What kind of purse?

02:17:18.000 Was it like glittery or anything?

02:17:20.000 Was it bedazzled?

02:17:21.000 If he had it, it would have been stollish.

02:17:22.000 I assure you. 0.99

02:17:24.000 It wasn't no chump shit, I promise. 1.00

02:17:27.000 So, what was it like for him? 0.98

02:17:30.000 I think it was incredibly challenging for him.

02:17:33.000 But they wouldn't let him arrest them.

02:17:37.000 Like, they would fight.

02:17:38.000 Like, no way.

02:17:39.000 I understand him going to jail.

02:17:41.000 But not from him.

02:17:47.000 Is he still on a job?

02:17:48.000 Yeah, he's awesome too.

02:17:50.000 Good for him.

02:17:50.000 What's his name?

02:17:51.000 I don't know.

02:17:52.000 Just give his first name.

02:17:53.000 No.

02:17:54.000 No?

02:17:54.000 I just want to give a shout out to him.

02:17:56.000 Q. You can call him Q. Q. You keep it sexy.

02:18:00.000 Keep it sexy, Q. So, harder for him than women? 0.99

02:18:06.000 Yeah, I think so.

02:18:07.000 I think it's incredibly hard for him.

02:18:09.000 So you're saying that women make better detectives. 1.00

02:18:11.000 What else besides empathy?

02:18:13.000 Do they have, like, intuitions better?

02:18:15.000 I mean, I can't say, but they do seem to fulfill those roles very well.

02:18:21.000 So there's a role for females in policing, even if you're thinking of the physical aspects of There is a need. 1.00

02:18:30.000 Right.

02:18:30.000 So how you balance that, I can't say.

02:18:34.000 It would require a little more nuance, but definitely have their role.

02:18:37.000 Is there anything else you want to say before we get out of here?

02:18:39.000 Because you've got a bunch of notes there.

02:18:42.000 It's just that...

02:18:44.000 One of the big things that we see is everybody keeps fighting against the Black Lives Matter thing.

02:18:50.000 And it's like we're not understanding what it is.

02:18:53.000 It's not that we come out with things, all lives matter.

02:18:57.000 Somebody wear a shirt, all lives matter. 0.99

02:18:58.000 No shit. 0.98

02:18:59.000 We understand all lives matter. 0.99

02:19:00.000 That's the whole point of everything we do.

02:19:02.000 Right.

02:19:02.000 And they come out and they say, police lives matter.

02:19:04.000 No shit. 0.99

02:19:05.000 I don't know a life that's mattered more than a police life. 0.99

02:19:07.000 I don't know if a single cop has been killed where the killer wasn't called, which is embarrassing for our profession.

02:19:11.000 Why do we always catch the ones that hurt our own?

02:19:13.000 Maybe we're not trying hard enough in the other ones.

02:19:17.000 We go around and we say these things, but the police, everyone comes to their aid when something happens to them.

02:19:24.000 But when somebody says black lives matter, we just, oh, oh, oh.

02:19:28.000 But all they're saying is that in our society, black lives haven't mattered as much as the other lives.

02:19:35.000 And that's clear when you see something like Tamir Rice.

02:19:38.000 Because you know that doesn't happen to one of your kids.

02:19:41.000 There's not a shot in hell that that happens to my daughter or yours.

02:19:45.000 No way.

02:19:46.000 Whether they're a 12-year-old sitting with a BB gun in the middle of your street, in front of your house, that is not going to happen.

02:19:52.000 Because they're going to say, oh, well, we're going to handle that situation.

02:19:55.000 We're going to approach her.

02:19:56.000 We're going to see what's really going on.

02:19:57.000 And they're not going to be a hero.

02:19:59.000 Because a hero is the person that goes up to Tamir Rice and approaches and tries to figure it out, risks getting shot, because he wants to make sure he's doing the right thing when you take away a life or take away somebody's freedom.

02:20:11.000 Well, you don't even have to go up to him.

02:20:12.000 How about you just say from the comfort of your car, put down the gun.

02:20:15.000 Sure, sure.

02:20:16.000 And from far away.

02:20:17.000 Figure it out. 0.85

02:20:18.000 But we go and we treat black lives like they don't matter.

02:20:23.000 And when you are putting that, oh yeah, all lives matter shirt on, or oh yeah, police lives matter on, you're proving that black lives aren't mattering as much to you. 0.99

02:20:32.000 Otherwise, you would just fucking say yes, they do. 0.94

02:20:36.000 Right, so they're not saying that white lives don't matter. 0.99

02:20:39.000 They're saying black lives matter. 1.00

02:20:40.000 Yeah, bring it up.

02:20:41.000 Bring it up to everyone else.

02:20:42.000 That's it.

02:20:43.000 Just equality.

02:20:44.000 It's not a diss on anybody else.

02:20:47.000 We have this problem, and we have this problem.

02:20:51.000 Recognize it.

02:20:51.000 Let's fix it.

02:20:53.000 When I say that I want to team up with DeRay, so if I took a police commissioner job, the first thing I would do is say, DeRay, please come join me.

02:21:02.000 Please.

02:21:04.000 Because I need you.

02:21:04.000 I need him.

02:21:05.000 He's a community leader. 0.93

02:21:06.000 The idea that we don't integrate people like him into our system is ridiculousness. 0.98

02:21:11.000 He is a leader of the black community. 0.99

02:21:14.000 I need him if I'm going to run a police agency.

02:21:17.000 And we should not be turning those kind of people away and making like they're some kind of instigators from out of town is what they would call DeRay.

02:21:25.000 Instigator.

02:21:27.000 That's what they call him?

02:21:28.000 Yeah, out-of-town instigator.

02:21:29.000 He was coming to Baltimore, and he's making money, and he's doing all this, and it's not at all what he's doing.

02:21:35.000 They think he's making money doing all this, and he's simply not.

02:21:38.000 Neither am I. We came out here on our own dime with the help of me.

02:21:42.000 Do you know who's making money?

02:21:44.000 CNN. Fox News.

02:21:46.000 Anybody broadcasting it where they're going to get advertising dollars, and that's something that's going to get a lot of people watching.

02:21:53.000 It certainly is.

02:21:54.000 Our ratings were up.

02:21:55.000 I went down to where Freddie Gray was, the incident happened, and where the uprising was the very next day.

02:22:02.000 You couldn't have told me that there was a difference between that day and two weeks ago. 0.98

02:22:06.000 The problem is that no one gave a shit about Gilmore Homes two weeks ago. 0.99

02:22:10.000 But when it went on the news and you saw the CVS burning and they cycled it over and over and over again, it was one goddamn building that was burning. 0.99

02:22:17.000 You just kept seeing it over and over after the fire department had already put it out. 0.99

02:22:20.000 Violence in Baltimore.

02:22:22.000 Violence in Baltimore.

02:22:23.000 The riots and all these things. 1.00

02:22:25.000 That way they talk, that fucking news voice. 1.00

02:22:26.000 You're on it exactly. 0.99

02:22:28.000 And we do that and then we look at that community and we're like, oh my god, why would they do that?

02:22:33.000 Well, nothing ever happens without an uprising.

02:22:37.000 Whatever great civil rights movement or great progress have we ever made without some kind of uprising?

02:22:42.000 How about the United States of America?

02:22:44.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:22:45.000 This came about because we got away from the fucking British. 1.00

02:22:48.000 I mean, that's literally how this got started. 0.99

02:22:50.000 It was an uprising.

02:22:52.000 Boston Tea Party? 1.00

02:22:53.000 It's a goddamn uprising. 0.99

02:22:55.000 And does anybody sit there and say, oh my god, why did they just throw their own tea into the water? 1.00

02:22:59.000 That's ridiculousness.

02:23:00.000 But they don't hesitate to say, why are they burning that CVS down? 0.71

02:23:04.000 Well, that's the only symbolism of corporate America that they even have there.

02:23:08.000 Because they don't have a grocery store like you and I do.

02:23:11.000 They don't have anything that we think of as normality.

02:23:15.000 They live in an area that... 0.95

02:23:17.000 has food deserts that doesn't have good schools where the kids ride MTA buses to go to school where life is and their parents get their father gets locked up because he has that dime bag and he perpetuates the cycle but yet society keeps telling them well pick yourself up by your bootstraps they don't fucking have bootstraps Because you took them away. 0.98

02:23:36.000 That pick yourself up by your bootstraps is such a shitty argument.

02:23:39.000 It's not like everybody starts in the same spot. 0.97

02:23:41.000 You know, it's not like we're all playing Monopoly and we all start from the same spot. 1.00

02:23:45.000 It's stupid. 1.00

02:23:46.000 That's such a terrible, terrible mentality that people have. 1.00

02:23:49.000 And it's so short-sighted and so dismissive to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. 1.00

02:23:54.000 It's just so dumb. 1.00

02:23:56.000 It's such a short... 1.00

02:23:57.000 And that's a short-sighted conservative argument.

02:23:59.000 That is a conservative argument. 1.00

02:24:00.000 It's just such a dumb one. 0.98

02:24:03.000 Well, the last thing I wanted to say, too, is that conservatives and right-wing people are the ones that are going to argue with me the most. 0.99

02:24:14.000 If we don't do what I'm saying, then they're going to lose their guns and their argument that they want to have.

02:24:20.000 Because if we can't reel in police and they're always afraid that everyone has a gun and we have to do this war...

02:24:26.000 Then that means we can't live in a society that's armed, and we can't police it properly.

02:24:31.000 When you just said that, a bunch of people just... 1.00

02:24:33.000 What the fuck? 1.00

02:24:35.000 Lose my guns. 1.00

02:24:36.000 What'd you say?

02:24:37.000 First you take my flag! 1.00

02:24:39.000 You take my fucking gun! 1.00

02:24:42.000 Not... 1.00

02:24:42.000 Nope. 1.00

02:24:43.000 If you want to keep your guns...

02:24:44.000 Like Charlton Heston said, you can pry my cold, dead hands from it if you want my gun.

02:24:51.000 Well, if you want to keep your guns, then we need to have...

02:24:55.000 Reform and policing.

02:24:56.000 I don't like this kind of language because people are gonna keep their guns. 1.00

02:24:59.000 They're keeping their fucking guns. 0.99

02:25:01.000 Yeah, well, then let's reform policing. 1.00

02:25:02.000 I think that's a great idea.

02:25:03.000 I don't think you need to bring guns into this.

02:25:06.000 Guns didn't do anything to anybody.

02:25:07.000 Were the cops killing people?

02:25:08.000 It's people.

02:25:09.000 People are doing it.

02:25:10.000 People kill people.

02:25:11.000 People are killing people.

02:25:13.000 Guns are just sitting there looking beautiful.

02:25:15.000 How many gun deaths happened in England? 1.00

02:25:16.000 Ah, fucking English. 1.00

02:25:18.000 Bunch of pussy scared to pull a trigger. 1.00

02:25:20.000 So the argument, though, that's so funny. 1.00

02:25:24.000 It turns out they all had guns.

02:25:26.000 I can't quite do it. 0.99

02:25:27.000 I was thinking about shooting him. 0.98

02:25:30.000 It just doesn't seem right. 0.99

02:25:32.000 Wouldn't be proper.

02:25:33.000 Wouldn't be proper.

02:25:35.000 Yeah.

02:25:36.000 No, listen, I think you're saying some awesome things.

02:25:39.000 We do have to wrap this up, but I really appreciate you coming on, and I think you express yourself very well.

02:25:46.000 And I think you're a very unique person.

02:25:49.000 Your perspective is very unique, the fact that you have so much experience, and you're saying all the right things.

02:25:55.000 So thank you very much.

02:25:56.000 I really, really appreciate it.

02:25:58.000 You can catch him on Twitter, Michael A. Wood Jr., M-I-C-H-A-E-L-A Wood.

02:26:06.000 W-O-O-D Jr. Last thing? 0.99

02:26:10.000 Anything else?

02:26:10.000 Website or anything?

02:26:11.000 Thanks for having me.

02:26:12.000 This has been great.

02:26:12.000 No, this is not about me.

02:26:13.000 This is about the point.

02:26:15.000 Where's the best place for people to reach you?

02:26:16.000 Twitter?

02:26:17.000 Just Twitter.

02:26:18.000 This is not about me.

02:26:18.000 This is about the message.

02:26:19.000 I appreciate that very much.

02:26:22.000 Michael Wood Jr., ladies and gentlemen. 1.00

02:26:24.000 A bad motherfucker. 1.00

02:26:25.000 You have been schooled. 1.00

02:26:27.000 See you guys soon.

The Joe Rogan Experience - July 08, 2015

Joe Rogan Experience #670 - Michael A. Wood, Jr.

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