The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #677 - Josh Zepps

00:00:00.000 People that I'd be willing to do a podcast with fresh back from Brazil within hours of landing on sacred American soil.

00:00:07.000 But you're one of them, Josh.

00:00:08.000 Why, thank you.

00:00:09.000 We're live.

00:00:09.000 It's a real pleasure to be back.

00:00:11.000 Thanks, buddy.

00:00:12.000 Man, so first of all, well, let me say, the last time I was here, I was like out of it.

00:00:17.000 I was white-knuckling it.

00:00:18.000 I was hungover.

00:00:20.000 I was tired.

00:00:21.000 It was 10 in the morning.

00:00:23.000 I hadn't slept properly.

00:00:24.000 I'd been on a late-night flight from New York.

00:00:27.000 I was sick, Joe.

00:00:28.000 I didn't know you were sick.

00:00:29.000 You performed admirably.

00:00:31.000 Yeah, I tried.

00:00:32.000 I tried. 1.00

00:00:33.000 I'm going to kill it today. 0.99

00:00:34.000 Smash it! 1.00

00:00:35.000 Smash it! 0.92

00:00:36.000 I'll be the weak one today. 0.95

00:00:38.000 Yeah, good.

00:00:39.000 I'll pick it up.

00:00:39.000 Thank you.

00:00:40.000 We'll just switch roles.

00:00:41.000 Nice.

00:00:42.000 You can sit back and I'll ask you questions.

00:00:44.000 How are you feeling?

00:00:45.000 Lowering my own expectations.

00:00:48.000 Of my own self.

00:00:49.000 Just maybe travel long trips before every podcast.

00:00:53.000 What was Brazil about?

00:00:55.000 The UFC. Great.

00:00:56.000 Ronda Rousey fight.

00:00:57.000 Excellent.

00:00:58.000 Pretty crazy.

00:00:59.000 Good time?

00:01:00.000 Yeah, fantastic.

00:01:01.000 It was watching her fight is like, it's like watching some historical thing.

00:01:06.000 It's like I was saying, like, when people tell their grandchildren, I was there when Muhammad Ali fought Sonny Liston.

00:01:12.000 You know, I was there when Mike Tyson beat Trevor Burbick and won the heavyweight title.

00:01:16.000 That's what it feels like when you watch her fight. 0.68

00:01:18.000 Like, you're not just seeing a fight, you're watching some crazy historic event.

00:01:22.000 It's amazing. 0.98

00:01:23.000 She's just a freak. 1.00

00:01:25.000 It was like a freak of all freaks. 0.97

00:01:27.000 Beautiful woman who's just this insane, furious combat athlete. 1.00

00:01:33.000 Nuts.

00:01:34.000 Well, you're the one who's just stepped off a 13-hour flight and is now working all afternoon.

00:01:38.000 So that's good, too.

00:01:40.000 That's not as hard.

00:01:43.000 Especially doing this.

00:01:44.000 Yeah, that's true.

00:01:45.000 We have pretty easy jobs just sitting around talking to people all day, in comparison.

00:01:49.000 Yeah, we do.

00:01:50.000 We do.

00:01:50.000 But I really enjoy your show, man.

00:01:51.000 You have some excellent interviews.

00:01:53.000 Did you interview that Peter Singer guy?

00:01:55.000 Yeah.

00:01:55.000 That's the animal liberation guy.

00:01:58.000 He coined the term animal liberation, and he sort of invented the...

00:02:02.000 He's one of the world's most important bioethicists, like, I mean, in terms of just thinking about the morality.

00:02:07.000 He's such a brilliant guy.

00:02:08.000 He's as if...

00:02:09.000 It's like an alien just came down to Earth and said, alright, we're not going to have any more preconceptions about what people think is right and wrong.

00:02:16.000 We're going to start from basics and think, okay, why do we think about the morality of things the way that we do, and in what ways is that wrong?

00:02:25.000 So he ends up with these crazy conclusions, and people hate him for some of them, like saying it's not necessarily wrong to, say, kill an infant, a newborn infant.

00:02:36.000 Well, how does he justify that?

00:02:38.000 I think it's on the grounds that what's wrong with killing something is a sort of combination of snuffing out the life of a being that has the capability of conceiving of itself as having a future, right?

00:02:50.000 You're thwarting a person's plans when you kill them, you're robbing them of all of the opportunities that they hoped that they were going to have, and you're presumably causing them pain.

00:02:59.000 But if you could painlessly...

00:03:01.000 I mean, if you think of life as being an incremental thing that starts from conception and then gradually evolves up into adulthood and sort of self-awareness and consciousness, I mean, does a two-day-old baby have that much more sentience and consciousness and sense of itself than a 22-week-old baby in the womb does?

00:03:23.000 Not a huge amount, necessarily.

00:03:24.000 I mean, I'm not saying I agree with it, but he's just a fascinating person to talk to.

00:03:28.000 Does he have children?

00:03:29.000 Yeah, I think so.

00:03:30.000 Hmm.

00:03:31.000 That's interesting that he thinks that way if he has children, because I could see it if you're trying to make some sort of a logic argument, you know, that you could argue it like that.

00:03:41.000 But as far as, like, being a human being, the difference being significant in that a child represents potential, and a child represents, to a lot of people, represents this insane bond of love that you have with the baby.

00:03:57.000 I think, just to clarify, I think he's only saying, like, in cases where, you know, the parents don't want it or something.

00:04:03.000 I mean, he's not.

00:04:04.000 Obviously, if you kill someone else's baby, you're doing a terrible thing because you're depriving the parents of the kid.

00:04:10.000 Right.

00:04:11.000 Oh, so they're saying, like, if they don't want their baby, it's not that big a deal.

00:04:14.000 In a situation like abortion, as if it was like an abortion.

00:04:17.000 There's some people that are extreme animal rights folks that also believe that there's something about if you did kill a person, at least you stop that person from killing all the animals they're going to kill or be responsible for the death of in their entire life.

00:04:33.000 Which gets real insane.

00:04:34.000 That's kind of crazy.

00:04:35.000 I don't think he'd agree with that. 0.65

00:04:37.000 Well, you want to know real crazy.

00:04:39.000 The lobster liberation movement.

00:04:41.000 No.

00:04:41.000 Yes.

00:04:42.000 No.

00:04:42.000 Yes.

00:04:43.000 There's people that break into restaurants, places that have seafood and keep lobsters, and they release them, take the rubber bands off their atrophied claws, and release them back into the ocean.

00:04:54.000 Those lobsters aren't surviving in the ocean. 0.83

00:04:56.000 They've had it too good for too long.

00:04:57.000 Sure, it might not be stimulating being in the lobster tank, but it sure is safe.

00:05:01.000 I don't know if the lobsters eat while they're in the tank.

00:05:04.000 That's a good question.

00:05:06.000 I don't know how long...

00:05:06.000 Well, they must be fed, right?

00:05:08.000 I don't...

00:05:08.000 I've never seen it.

00:05:09.000 Have you?

00:05:10.000 Well, they wouldn't do it while you're eating them.

00:05:12.000 But they always have the rubber bands on their claws, so they don't jack each other up while they're in that tank all piled on top of each other.

00:05:21.000 It is kind of sick. 0.87

00:05:23.000 I have no problem with it because I do eat meat and so I can't really be a hypocrite about it. 0.93

00:05:28.000 But I think there's something just kind of oddly sadistic about sitting there at a table and just being like, alright, I'm going to end that one's life right now and then I'm just going to eat him in front of his buddies. 0.73

00:05:40.000 Yeah.

00:05:41.000 Well, we have a weird thing about...

00:05:42.000 We have a hierarchy of animals that we love.

00:05:46.000 And that's one of the things we found out about Cecil.

00:05:49.000 We love Cecil.

00:05:51.000 Cecil the lion!

00:05:52.000 I want to get to Cecil in a second.

00:05:54.000 We should definitely get to it, but we don't have any problem with bugs.

00:05:57.000 Even vegans will slap a mosquito when it's biting them.

00:06:00.000 We don't have a problem with that.

00:06:01.000 Not only that, when bugs are really little, like ants, we'll kill it and then brush it off our pants and leave the body on the ground.

00:06:07.000 And there's just like a head on our pants and just some little limbs scattered around the ground.

00:06:13.000 Bug guts.

00:06:13.000 And then the ant will be...

00:06:15.000 I had a friend do that in my kitchen once.

00:06:18.000 He had an ant on. 1.00

00:06:19.000 I was like, oh, fucking ant. 1.00

00:06:21.000 And he just brushed it on the ground. 1.00

00:06:22.000 I go, isn't that odd?

00:06:23.000 I don't have a problem with you doing that, but isn't it odd that we do that?

00:06:26.000 We just brush bodies onto our friend's floors and we don't care about it. 0.99

00:06:29.000 Just...

00:06:31.000 So, getting back to Peter Singer, where his whole philosophy of animal liberation is sort of that there is a hierarchy of consciousness and sentience that has to be taken into account.

00:06:42.000 He happens to be a vegan, but he doesn't think, you know, I've spoken to him, obviously he doesn't think that an oyster has the same right to life as a lion does or as a chimpanzee does, right?

00:06:52.000 Right.

00:06:53.000 So you factor in the capacity of the creature to be sentient and to feel pain and to have a conception of itself and to feel love and fear and those sorts of things.

00:07:04.000 And however much it does, that's why human life is probably more important than any other animal's life.

00:07:10.000 Maybe whales or dolphins or, I don't know, some other animal that's equally smart as us.

00:07:15.000 But...

00:07:16.000 So for him, the bugs are less worthy.

00:07:19.000 And for anyone sensible, the bugs are less worthy, right? 0.92

00:07:22.000 But what's interesting when you say, like, we have these weird conceptions of our own hierarchies, of, like, cute animals and non-cute animals, or animals that we give a shit about and animals that we don't...

00:07:33.000 What's interesting is that that hierarchy doesn't match up with a logical, ethical hierarchy. 0.93

00:07:40.000 Like, why are we so willing to be so cruel to pigs, which are just as conscious and self-aware and capable of love and family and pain as dogs?

00:07:50.000 If not more so. 0.71

00:07:51.000 If not more so.

00:07:52.000 But we have these institutionalized, concentrated animal feeding operations that just...

00:07:57.000 Torture.

00:07:58.000 I mean, it's torture. 0.99

00:07:59.000 I mean, whatever that industry can do to lower the price of a pound of flesh by a few pennies, it will do, including not anaesthetising the pigs, grabbing little piglets by the tail and just smashing their heads against a wall to kill them if they're non-viable anymore. 0.98

00:08:15.000 I mean, it's an absolute murder show. 0.99

00:08:17.000 It's like an ongoing holocaust of pigs. 0.99

00:08:21.000 But then, like, little... 0.97

00:08:22.000 People will get arrested for, I don't know, Michael Vick or something, doing something bad for dogs. 0.99

00:08:26.000 We just don't give a shit. 0.99

00:08:28.000 So what Peter Singer would say is, yes, there's a hierarchy, but let's at least be sensible about the hierarchy. 0.99

00:08:33.000 Which brings us to Cecil.

00:08:35.000 Poor Cecil. 0.66

00:08:36.000 Cecil's a 13-year-old lion, which I want everyone to understand that if you're a male lion and you reach 13 years of age, you have killed a fuckload of baby lions. 0.96

00:08:46.000 Sure. 0.93

00:08:47.000 That's 100%.

00:08:48.000 How many gazelles have you killed?

00:08:49.000 A lot of gazelles, but also there's a lot of, how do you say it, infanticide, trusside, tusside? 0.85

00:08:55.000 Infanticide.

00:08:56.000 Tusside, it's not trusside.

00:08:57.000 No.

00:08:57.000 I always want to make an R there somewhere.

00:08:59.000 Well, there are some other types of, like fratricide, which has an R in it.

00:09:02.000 I think that's why.

00:09:03.000 Yeah.

00:09:04.000 Infanticide, if that is the correct way of saying it.

00:09:07.000 Are you doubting me, Joe?

00:09:08.000 No, definitely.

00:09:09.000 You're doubting my verbal wisdom.

00:09:10.000 100%.

00:09:11.000 But I think that's an important point to look at.

00:09:15.000 My friend Steve Rinella calls them charismatic megafauna.

00:09:18.000 And he's like, there's all these animals that are charismatic megafauna that we have anthropomorphized in movies like The Lion King and Yogi Bear and all these movies.

00:09:29.000 And we have this idealized view of what they really are.

00:09:33.000 But the reality of them is so alien to us because we're never in Africa, in Zimbabwe, in the jungle with these lions. 0.83

00:09:41.000 And if you were, you would be absolutely fucking terrified of them and you wouldn't think of them like... 0.83

00:09:46.000 I saw Jimmy Kimmel crying on TV. I was like, whoa, Jimmy, I want to show you some videos. 0.96

00:09:51.000 I want to show you some videos of Cecil killing babies.

00:09:53.000 Because apparently there's a video of Cecil actually killing...

00:09:56.000 The actual same lion.

00:09:58.000 Interesting.

00:09:59.000 Allegedly.

00:09:59.000 It might not be him.

00:10:00.000 It's hard to verify.

00:10:01.000 Yeah, and it's also condescending to the people who live there.

00:10:04.000 Like, I mean, there are farmers there who are like, well, yeah, you're allowed to be all teary about a lion. 0.99

00:10:08.000 It eats our damn cows all the time. 1.00

00:10:10.000 Or like elephants are just stomping all over our crops. 1.00

00:10:13.000 So, yeah, let's save them.

00:10:15.000 Absolutely.

00:10:16.000 But we should have a little bit more empathy for the human beings who are there, too.

00:10:20.000 Yeah, well, the human beings, here's the other one, the poachers.

00:10:24.000 The lives of poachers.

00:10:25.000 Okay.

00:10:26.000 Now, let's...

00:10:27.000 I'm not defending this guy.

00:10:30.000 I'm not exactly sure what happened.

00:10:32.000 There's several different versions of what that guy did.

00:10:35.000 And some of them are, according to book, they're fine and legal.

00:10:41.000 That's not the only lion that's ever been killed like this with a collar on it.

00:10:45.000 When the lions are off the preserved area, it's legal to kill them.

00:10:49.000 That's right.

00:10:49.000 Not saying you should kill them, just saying if they're not there.

00:10:53.000 But here's the thing. 0.99

00:10:54.000 But they lured him off.

00:10:55.000 I think that's the difference, right?

00:10:56.000 Here's what's legal to kill as much as you want. 0.97

00:10:58.000 Poachers. 0.99

00:10:59.000 People. 0.99

00:11:00.000 They kill people there every day.

00:11:03.000 When they have these hunting camps, when they go out looking for lions, or more often, lions are fairly rare.

00:11:11.000 Most people, when they go over there to hunt, they want to hunt something to eat with big antlers they could put on their wall.

00:11:15.000 Yeah.

00:11:15.000 Like a Neeland or a gazelle or something along those lines.

00:11:19.000 When they go to hunt those, occasionally they'll find people that are there and they call these people poachers.

00:11:25.000 And what they are is extremely poor people that are there shooting these animals without a permit.

00:11:29.000 And you know what they do? 0.89

00:11:30.000 They murder them. 0.99

00:11:31.000 They murder these people on a regular basis.

00:11:33.000 I have a friend who went over there for a hunting camp and while he was there, the people that he was with shot a poacher.

00:11:40.000 Shot it right in front of them.

00:11:41.000 There was a man, and that man had a gun that was like a...

00:11:46.000 They have makeshift guns.

00:11:48.000 They have a...

00:11:48.000 It's an actual gun, but they don't have real bullets.

00:11:50.000 So what they do is they create a bullet with like a piece of metal.

00:11:55.000 They find pieces of metal, and they get some gunpowder, and they create a firing pin, and they have to light it like a musket.

00:12:01.000 It's crazy.

00:12:02.000 I mean, these are extremely, extremely poor people.

00:12:05.000 Not only that, they find their camps, and in a lot of their camps, they'll find evidence of witchcraft.

00:12:12.000 So they have this white powder that they'll find in these camps, and they put this white powder on their wrists, and they believe this white powder that's been blessed by this witch doctor makes them invisible. 0.82

00:12:23.000 So this guy was standing out in the open, like right next to a tree, when the game wardens, the people that live and work in Africa and handle this stuff, shot this guy.

00:12:34.000 They shot this guy.

00:12:35.000 And you know what they do with him when they shoot him?

00:12:36.000 They fill out paperwork or they don't.

00:12:39.000 Sometimes they just feed them to the hyenas.

00:12:41.000 And this happens every day.

00:12:43.000 And this happens all the time because they have these huge hunting preserves, right?

00:12:47.000 So these preserves might be 20, 30, 40,000 acres, maybe more.

00:12:51.000 Enormous.

00:12:52.000 One of them, my friend was on, said it took eight hours to drive from one side of the ranch to the other.

00:12:57.000 So you're talking about an enormous piece of land.

00:12:59.000 And in this enormous piece of land, you'll find insanely poor people.

00:13:03.000 And these insanely poor people have nothing.

00:13:06.000 It's dry.

00:13:07.000 There's no supermarkets.

00:13:09.000 There's no government support.

00:13:11.000 There's nowhere for them to go.

00:13:12.000 So what do they do?

00:13:13.000 They take a risk, and they go and try to find animals to kill in these hunting preserves. 0.99

00:13:18.000 And they get shot, and they get killed, and no one gives a fuck. 0.99

00:13:21.000 Right. 0.99

00:13:22.000 So the underlying problem here is the economics.

00:13:25.000 Exactly.

00:13:26.000 Right.

00:13:26.000 And there's a case, I mean, some people say, well, look, trophy hunting, you may not agree with it, but the $50,000 that the person is spending can then go into maintaining a preserve that actually protects a whole bunch of lions.

00:13:38.000 Now, I'm a bit sort of conflicted about that, because there are only a few tens of thousands of lions left, right?

00:13:44.000 Even fewer elephants, I think.

00:13:47.000 There's some areas, it depends on Africa, there's some areas where they have to cull elephants because they have too many of them.

00:13:53.000 Yeah.

00:13:53.000 I mean, again, that's because of the encroachment of cities and more and more, you know, them losing so much of their habitat.

00:13:58.000 You might have a lot of elephants in a particular small area, but overall, the number is going down dramatically across the continent.

00:14:04.000 Is that 100% true?

00:14:05.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:14:06.000 Well, I was reading a piece the other day that was saying that, you know, within 15 or 20 years, it's entirely possible there just won't be any African elephants left.

00:14:13.000 Well, I brought this up before, so forgive me for anybody who's listening to this, but Louis Theroux has a great documentary on these camps.

00:14:20.000 Oh, so good.

00:14:20.000 And I heard him on your show as well.

00:14:22.000 I mean, I'm a huge fan of Louis.

00:14:24.000 Love that guy.

00:14:24.000 I've seen that episode a couple of times.

00:14:26.000 Well, one of the things that was pointed out on that show is there was a lot of animals that were on the verge of extinction that are now thriving because they live in these giant hunting camps.

00:14:34.000 Right. 0.99

00:14:35.000 That's really fucked. 1.00

00:14:36.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:14:37.000 And that's what the guy running the hunting camp said.

00:14:40.000 You know, when Louis was kind of confronting him about this, he goes, listen to me. 1.00

00:14:44.000 Every guy's fucked. 1.00

00:14:45.000 Every guy's fucked. 1.00

00:14:45.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:14:46.000 That's an intense moment.

00:14:47.000 So incredible.

00:14:48.000 And that guy's saying that, and you're like, whoa.

00:14:50.000 Like, this guy is, like, he's just at his wit's end.

00:14:54.000 So, Ricky Gervais was commenting on Facebook about Cecil the Lion and trophy hunting and everything, because he's a big animal rights guy, and he's super opposed to trophy hunting.

00:15:02.000 And he was saying, like... 0.89

00:15:05.000 Sure, maybe this is going to fund something better, but would you allow some arsehole to shoot a cancer patient if he was willing to donate a million dollars to cancer research? 0.98

00:15:15.000 That's a good point. 0.97

00:15:15.000 That's not how it works. 0.97

00:15:17.000 Why doesn't the arsehole just donate? 1.00

00:15:19.000 If he thinks he's doing a good deed for lion conservation, donate the $50,000 and then just don't kill the lion. 0.96

00:15:24.000 Well, he doesn't want that. 0.98

00:15:27.000 He wants this lion in his house so he can climb on top of it and jerk off to it. 0.99

00:15:33.000 That's the whole point. 0.95

00:15:34.000 And I don't know what he, like, then it comes back to, like, you know John Ronson?

00:15:38.000 You've had him on the show.

00:15:39.000 Yes.

00:15:40.000 So you've been publicly shamed, guys.

00:15:42.000 Yes, yes.

00:15:42.000 Love that guy.

00:15:43.000 By the way, Bill Hader does the best John Ronson impersonation you've ever heard.

00:15:47.000 I had Bill Hader and Judd Apatow on HuffPost Live a couple weeks ago.

00:15:51.000 And for some reason we were just talking about what books they like.

00:15:54.000 I don't even remember how it came up.

00:15:56.000 And Judd Apatow was like, I'm really into John Ronson.

00:15:59.000 And I kind of thought that John was my special little fetish.

00:16:03.000 I think he's so great.

00:16:04.000 But he's not like an A-list writer in America, at least.

00:16:08.000 I don't think that many people know him.

00:16:09.000 And then Bill Hader was like, oh yeah, I just listened to the audio book of his book.

00:16:13.000 And I was like, I just listened to the audio book of his book.

00:16:15.000 And Bill Hader starts going, Jonah Lara.

00:16:19.000 Like him?

00:16:21.000 It's brilliant John Ronson impersonation.

00:16:23.000 But anyway, what happened to this guy who shot the lion reminds me a bit of what John is always on about.

00:16:29.000 So he's had to shutter his dental practice.

00:16:32.000 There are signs of abuse all over the dental practice.

00:16:36.000 His business is ruined.

00:16:38.000 He's had to go into hiding.

00:16:40.000 I mean, is that fair? 0.96

00:16:43.000 Yeah, he did a shitty thing. 0.89

00:16:44.000 I completely don't agree with it. 0.96

00:16:45.000 I don't understand trophy hunting.

00:16:47.000 I understand hunting hunting for meat, but I don't understand trophy hunting.

00:16:52.000 But we all pile on and we all love being so self-righteous and so sanctimonious about it.

00:16:57.000 At the same time, once again, as we're eating all those pigs that have been tortured and people are biting into chicken burgers, that's another tortured animal.

00:17:05.000 But the moment there's something with a big fluffy mane and it has a cute name like Cecil.

00:17:10.000 Do you pronounce that name Cecil in America?

00:17:11.000 Cecil.

00:17:12.000 Okay, cool.

00:17:13.000 But Cecil sounds better.

00:17:14.000 Cecil D. DeMille.

00:17:15.000 Yeah, it's also like if the lion's name was like Garth or something, I don't think people would be as upset.

00:17:23.000 It's like Cecil is the cutest name.

00:17:25.000 No one who's called Cecil has ever done anything wrong.

00:17:28.000 Cecil, though, is like a cool black guy who hangs around pool halls.

00:17:32.000 Oh, right.

00:17:33.000 My man Cecil can hook you up.

00:17:35.000 Cecil?

00:17:36.000 Maybe that's where the pronunciation difference comes from.

00:17:40.000 Does it come from African Americans? 0.63

00:17:41.000 That's interesting.

00:17:41.000 I don't know.

00:17:42.000 I don't know.

00:17:43.000 There's a lot of different words that they pronounce differently in England.

00:17:46.000 Yeah, that's true.

00:17:48.000 Yeah, of course.

00:17:49.000 And spelled differently, like tires of the Y. That's always bizarre when I read English auto magazines.

00:17:55.000 T-Y-R-E-S. I think that... 0.90

00:17:58.000 The idea of killing this animal for no reason other than you want to kill it because you like killing things is what freaks everybody out. 0.64

00:18:07.000 The idea that this sociopath could go over there and kill these beautiful things and that's what freaks people out.

00:18:14.000 But what's going on right now, why this guy did this, Is people are killing lions all over Africa. 0.99

00:18:19.000 Like, here's what's really fucked up. 0.99

00:18:21.000 This is what's really fucked up. 0.98

00:18:22.000 There was an article that said that Jericho, Cecil's brother, had also been killed by a lion. 0.97

00:18:27.000 And everybody was like, oh my god, I can't believe this!

00:18:31.000 We lost Jericho!

00:18:32.000 This is crazy, because Jericho's got a name.

00:18:34.000 And then they said it was a false alarm.

00:18:38.000 Worry not.

00:18:39.000 It wasn't Jericho. 1.00

00:18:40.000 It was just some poor bitch-ass lion that doesn't have a name. 1.00

00:18:43.000 And then I'm like, okay. 0.99

00:18:44.000 This kind of highlights...

00:18:46.000 What Rinella was saying.

00:18:48.000 It's charismatic megafauna.

00:18:49.000 You give them a name and all of a sudden there's something significant about them.

00:18:53.000 They have a personality like Simba.

00:18:55.000 That's right.

00:18:56.000 So I'm out here in LA this weekend doing an episode of my new show.

00:19:00.000 I just launched a podcast, which is a panel of like three...

00:19:18.000 You just got off a plane.

00:19:19.000 Other people have like, their brains, your listeners are clever enough.

00:19:23.000 They'll be able to write it down.

00:19:25.000 You say that, you need to go on my Twitter and my Facebook and read some comments on Instagram as well.

00:19:29.000 Or YouTube. 1.00

00:19:31.000 That's the fucking pit. 1.00

00:19:32.000 That's the pit of stupidity. 1.00

00:19:34.000 Or you can go to wtplive.com. 1.00

00:19:37.000 There's the other plug.

00:19:38.000 I've got the plug now.

00:19:39.000 But it's great.

00:19:39.000 It's a lot of fun.

00:19:40.000 So we had Greg Fitzsimmons on the show last night, and we just got a bunch of people together in Hollywood.

00:19:45.000 And Fred Stoller, who was a writer on Seinfeld, I don't know if you know Fred, did a joke about exactly what you were just saying, about Cecil the Lion.

00:19:52.000 He was like, it's like if someone, like... 0.94

00:19:57.000 Someone accidentally shot Bruce Willis, but they thought that they were going to be shooting Gregory McGee, and they're like, oh fuck, I didn't realize that I was shooting Bruce Willis. 0.98

00:20:05.000 I just thought I was going to be killing this other random dude. 0.99

00:20:07.000 You'd still be like, no, you'd still murdered a guy, right? 0.98

00:20:10.000 It doesn't matter whether it's Jericho the Lion or Shithead the Lion. 0.92

00:20:13.000 Either way, you're culpable.

00:20:15.000 People were upset that Jericho died, and now they're not upset because it was an unknown lion.

00:20:20.000 So no one is calling for the head of this person that shot this unknown lion. 1.00

00:20:24.000 We're stupid. 1.00

00:20:25.000 We're very stupid. 1.00

00:20:26.000 But we're also ruined by media. 1.00

00:20:28.000 I really believe that media depictions of animals, and when you add human voices to them, like Zookeeper, a movie that I was in, you do fuck with people's reality.

00:20:40.000 I think that We're not designed to take in the media.

00:20:43.000 I really don't believe that the human body and brain is designed for films.

00:20:47.000 And I think when we sit down there and we watch some epic movie with lions, like, there was a movie called Bears.

00:20:54.000 Did you ever see that movie?

00:20:55.000 Yeah.

00:20:55.000 That was a nature documentary?

00:20:57.000 Well, it was all over.

00:20:58.000 There was another one called Cats, right, that was recent.

00:21:02.000 Uh-huh.

00:21:02.000 And it was about big cats.

00:21:03.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:21:04.000 They don't show what the fuck they really do. 0.99

00:21:07.000 In the bear documentary, they didn't show the bears killing cubs. 1.00

00:21:10.000 Bears kill cubs.

00:21:12.000 That's what they like to eat.

00:21:14.000 That's one of the reasons why female bears are so aggressive when they're around their babies. 1.00

00:21:18.000 Yeah, that's it.

00:21:19.000 Bears.

00:21:19.000 The Disney nature film Bears.

00:21:21.000 They didn't show that male bears come out of hibernation and they go looking for cubs.

00:21:27.000 It's one of the first things they try to eat.

00:21:29.000 I mean, I'm not sure that I buy your thesis that things like animated movies like The Lion King...

00:21:35.000 Screw us up.

00:21:36.000 But I do definitely think that if there's something which is a pseudo-documentary, like what you're talking about, like Bears or something, like one movie that I hated, I couldn't get through more than 20 minutes of it, was March of the Penguins.

00:21:45.000 I had a whole bit about it.

00:21:47.000 I was angry about it.

00:21:49.000 Why?

00:21:50.000 Well, there was a bunch of it.

00:21:51.000 One of the things that they were mating for life, and I was like, you know, that they mate for life, and they're monogamous.

00:21:57.000 I'm like, first of all, they only mate for a year.

00:21:59.000 I'm like, I could do that.

00:22:01.000 Second of all, they look exactly the same.

00:22:04.000 It's not like one penguin is a Jenna Jameson penguin, the other one's a Rosie O'Donnell penguin. 1.00

00:22:08.000 They're fucking penguins. 1.00

00:22:09.000 What's the point in cheating? 1.00

00:22:10.000 Just pretend you're cheat.

00:22:12.000 It's like as if everyone was just identical twins, right?

00:22:15.000 Yeah.

00:22:15.000 Well, also, there was a part in the movie, and this really did happen, when I watched it, I was watching, and there's those leopard seals that feed off of the penguins that I didn't even know existed.

00:22:24.000 I didn't even know it was a real animal until that movie.

00:22:27.000 And this is an amazing beast of an animal with these huge teeth, and I was like, whoa!

00:22:32.000 I was like, this is incredible!

00:22:34.000 This thing's amazing!

00:22:34.000 Wow!

00:22:36.000 There was a family in front of me, and this mom was upset at me that I was happy when the leopard seal was eating the penguins. 0.98

00:22:43.000 I'm like, what about when the penguin is fucking slaughtering these fish? 0.98

00:22:46.000 Right. 0.99

00:22:46.000 The hierarchy took... 0.99

00:22:47.000 There's the leopard seal right there.

00:22:48.000 Look at that.

00:22:49.000 Awesome. 1.00

00:22:49.000 Fucking incredible beast of an animal. 1.00

00:22:51.000 So what about the leopard seal? 0.99

00:22:52.000 Like, doesn't it have a right to live?

00:22:54.000 Does not.

00:22:54.000 It's mean and awful, and it's going after the star, which is the penguin.

00:22:58.000 It's not marching for the leopard seal, Josh.

00:23:00.000 Right.

00:23:00.000 That's what I hated about it.

00:23:01.000 It was a total anthropomorphization, if that's a word, which probably isn't, of penguin life.

00:23:09.000 It's portraying them as basically humans in little costumes, right?

00:23:13.000 And it's creating all of these, I mean, clearly made-up relations.

00:23:17.000 It would be like, you know, you'd see a shot of a penguin walking away, and it would be like young Jimbo wandered off, you know...

00:23:26.000 With a heavy heart to think about how he'd just been jilted.

00:23:30.000 You have no idea why. 1.00

00:23:32.000 He's probably wandering over there to take a shit. 0.99

00:23:34.000 I don't know what he's doing. 1.00

00:23:34.000 He's taking a shit. 1.00

00:23:34.000 He's trying to find some fish to eat. 1.00

00:23:36.000 He's got three brain cells banging around inside his stupid little bird head. 1.00

00:23:39.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:23:40.000 So I think companies like Disney probably should be held to better account to be more responsible about communicating to children the reality of animal life rather than making it all sunny.

00:23:50.000 Don't want their kids to watch like pull up this video Jamie lion killing cub male lion killing cubs I put this up on Twitter and I thought Twitter took it down But what actually happened is I retweeted somebody else tweeted it and the guy who tweeted it got attacked so hard That he decided to delete his tweet. 0.99

00:24:08.000 He's just like fuck this. 0.99

00:24:09.000 Thanks a lot Joe. 1.00

00:24:10.000 It was just too much, but The reason why he got in trouble is because this lion is killing cubs.

00:24:17.000 This is reality.

00:24:19.000 And it's not just an isolated instance like a lion at a screw loose.

00:24:22.000 There's one on a baby killing rampage.

00:24:25.000 This is what they do.

00:24:26.000 When a lion...

00:24:28.000 It takes over a pride. 0.96

00:24:29.000 One of the first things he does after he chases out the male lion is kill all of its babies. 0.98

00:24:37.000 Of course. 0.97

00:24:37.000 And this is what's going on right here. 0.97

00:24:39.000 It's genetics.

00:24:39.000 I mean, I interviewed Richard Dawkins recently as well, and I've got another event coming up with him in October, which is going to be cool.

00:24:45.000 And he wrote The Selfish Gene.

00:24:48.000 Mm-hmm.

00:24:48.000 Meaning, like, the unit of evolution is not the individual and it's not the species.

00:24:52.000 It's the gene.

00:24:53.000 Now, that lion is killing those cubs because what better way to make sure that its genes end up getting passed on and spread out and procreated through the... 0.96

00:25:04.000 Exactly.

00:25:04.000 Through the pride.

00:25:05.000 There's no better way.

00:25:06.000 Than by making sure that all of the other babies from the other guys don't go.

00:25:10.000 I mean, he's just following instinct.

00:25:11.000 Why wouldn't you?

00:25:12.000 This is part of the picture.

00:25:14.000 And again, I'm not in favor of killing lions.

00:25:17.000 And people say this is Cecil, by the way.

00:25:19.000 I don't know if that's true.

00:25:21.000 I mean, how would you know?

00:25:21.000 I don't know, but Cecil has been studied.

00:25:25.000 I mean, he's a part of an Oxford study, or was.

00:25:27.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:25:27.000 I interviewed actually the head of that study, the Oxford guy.

00:25:31.000 Fascinating stuff.

00:25:31.000 He looks different because he's younger in this video, and apparently when they get older, they get the black around their mane.

00:25:37.000 I don't know if this is true.

00:25:38.000 But bottom line is, this is also part of the picture.

00:25:42.000 So by showing only the beautiful aspects of the lion with a flowing mane, walking amongst the cubs that are his and the female lionesses, you don't see the actual whole animal.

00:25:53.000 You don't see the thing.

00:25:53.000 You also don't see the reality of the poaching and what these people go through that live there and that it's easy for these hunting wardens to murder those people that are trying to survive.

00:26:05.000 I get it.

00:26:05.000 That to me is so much more disturbing.

00:26:07.000 Yeah, but then there's this big question.

00:26:08.000 I mean, so there's the ethics of actually taking the lives of these animals and the hypocrisy of loving dogs but not pigs and of eating chicken but then going crazy about Cecil the Lion.

00:26:18.000 But then at the end of the day, I always come back to the fundamental fact that...

00:26:23.000 We are living through one of the greatest extinction events in history that's been unleashed by humans.

00:26:31.000 If, in 50 years time, we don't want to live in a world that has no lions, has no African elephants, has totally polluted overfished waters, where you can't eat tuna anymore because there's so much mercury in it.

00:26:44.000 Like, we've got to find ways of dealing with this And if the poachers are part of that problem, I'm not saying you put a bullet in their head, but you've got to do something.

00:26:54.000 See, with the poachers that are getting killed in Africa, though, most...

00:26:58.000 I mean, there's different types of poachers.

00:26:59.000 There's poachers in Africa that are killing elephants for their ivory, and this is the most unbelievably brutal aspect of it.

00:27:06.000 When poachers kill...

00:27:08.000 Elephants for their ivory.

00:27:09.000 The amount of ivory that they get, they get like four or five elephants that they kill.

00:27:14.000 I think there was a big story a few days ago where they killed five elephants and they just chop off their tusks and leave their bodies to rot.

00:27:22.000 They got like $200 for those tusks.

00:27:25.000 And those tusks on the black market are worth tens of thousands of dollars, but that's... 0.99

00:27:30.000 Fucking crazy. 0.98

00:27:31.000 I mean, this is not... 0.99

00:27:32.000 But you're also talking about people that are just so fucking desperate. 0.76

00:27:36.000 We can't even understand the poverty. 0.93

00:27:38.000 I know, but there are a lot of desperate people.

00:27:40.000 There are a lot of desperate people, and they find ways of doing things.

00:27:42.000 They're born desperate.

00:27:43.000 They're stuck.

00:27:44.000 I mean, if you're in that environment...

00:27:46.000 I have a friend, his name is Justin Wren, and he'll be on the podcast soon again.

00:27:50.000 He's been on a few times.

00:27:51.000 He still is an MMA fighter, but he went over there on a trip and met some pygmies and just was in the Congo and fell in love and just was like, I need to help these people.

00:28:01.000 And we've been donating money and they've been building wells.

00:28:03.000 They've built 16 wells for these people.

00:28:05.000 They're bringing in medical supplies.

00:28:07.000 They're doing all these things to try to help these people.

00:28:09.000 But the feeling that he got when he was there is like, there's no one helping these folks.

00:28:14.000 They have to do anything they can to survive.

00:28:16.000 These people that are on these hunting preserves that they're calling poachers, a lot of them are just trying to feed themselves.

00:28:23.000 There's nowhere to go.

00:28:24.000 There's nothing.

00:28:25.000 There's no options. 1.00

00:28:26.000 And it's legal to kill those people. 0.93

00:28:29.000 Well, it's not legal. 0.99

00:28:31.000 No, it is legal in Africa to kill these people. 1.00

00:28:32.000 It's not legal to kill people. 0.96

00:28:34.000 No, it's legal.

00:28:34.000 Yes, it is.

00:28:34.000 They might turn a blind eye to it.

00:28:36.000 No, no, no, no.

00:28:36.000 They might not prosecute it.

00:28:37.000 But it's always...

00:28:39.000 Illegal to kill a person unless you're in self-defense.

00:28:42.000 I'm telling you it's not.

00:28:43.000 Really?

00:28:44.000 It's not. 0.50

00:28:44.000 In Africa, a poacher, you can shoot a poacher when they are on your property, and it's legal. 0.50

00:28:50.000 You fill out paperwork, and you're done.

00:28:52.000 And not only that, but it was being done by what they call, they call them professional hunters, but they're essentially game wardens.

00:29:00.000 So...

00:29:01.000 Like, if you were, you know, if you were in Montana, say you were elk hunting, and when you shoot an animal, you have to have a tag for it, which means Indian state allows shooting tiger poachers on sight offers money to informants.

00:29:16.000 Yeah.

00:29:16.000 Well, that's one state in India, right?

00:29:19.000 Yeah, but...

00:29:21.000 Yeah, but it's the same thing.

00:29:22.000 It's not uncommon for it to be legal to shoot poachers.

00:29:26.000 But that's because they're down to only like a few thousand lions, or a few thousand tigers in India.

00:29:32.000 It might be even less than thousands.

00:29:34.000 It might be like hundreds of tigers in India.

00:29:38.000 Point being, it's not just legal.

00:29:41.000 Like, it's done every day.

00:29:44.000 Every day.

00:29:44.000 Africa is so big.

00:29:46.000 This is the other thing that people need.

00:29:48.000 We have this perception in our head that Africa is something like America.

00:29:53.000 You know, well, we know what life is like in America, so we expect life is like that in Africa. 1.00

00:29:58.000 So if these people are over there in Africa and they're shooting lions, these are terrible people.

00:30:04.000 This is an insanely hard place to live.

00:30:08.000 Insanely awful place, in a lot of ways.

00:30:10.000 Many, many parts of it.

00:30:11.000 I think people know that.

00:30:12.000 I don't think people have any illusions about what Africa's like.

00:30:14.000 I don't think they do.

00:30:15.000 I don't think I do. 0.99

00:30:16.000 The only time we see Africa on the news is when some horrible, horrible shit goes down, or when Bono is playing some... 1.00

00:30:23.000 I mean, I've got friends who live in Nairobi, and there are lots of things going on. 0.98

00:30:28.000 I mean, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is doing all kinds of stuff.

00:30:31.000 There's lots of entrepreneurship.

00:30:33.000 Cell phones have revolutionized the continent, because all of a sudden...

00:30:37.000 People are able to, like, send a text message to the market that's a three-hour walk away and ask what price, you know, fish or rice are getting that day.

00:30:44.000 And they can actually plan instead of just guessing.

00:30:46.000 Like, there are a lot of good news stories in Africa.

00:30:49.000 I'm not downplaying how terrible it is.

00:30:50.000 But the idea that the only way that you can survive on the continent of Africa is by poaching, is by being an ivory poacher.

00:30:57.000 Come on.

00:30:57.000 These are opportunistic people.

00:30:59.000 No, I'm not saying ivory poacher.

00:30:59.000 I'm saying food poachers.

00:31:01.000 These people that are getting shot in these game preserves.

00:31:03.000 A lot of them are just hunting gazelles or something along those lines.

00:31:06.000 Right.

00:31:06.000 They're just hunting for food.

00:31:07.000 They have nothing.

00:31:08.000 What I'm saying is, I know all these stories.

00:31:11.000 I'm aware of all these stories.

00:31:12.000 I read them all the time.

00:31:12.000 But I think unless you have feet on the ground in Africa, unless you actually go there and experience it firsthand, everybody that I've talked to that's been there said, it is another world.

00:31:22.000 You might as well be on the moon.

00:31:23.000 The moon?

00:31:24.000 You could be on the moan as well.

00:31:26.000 Yeah, sure.

00:31:27.000 I think I know the information, but I think I haven't internalized it.

00:31:32.000 But what happened to my friend Justin, when he went there, he was just like, Jesus Christ, I've got to do something.

00:31:38.000 And he was just struck with it.

00:31:39.000 Because I don't think it gets in.

00:31:43.000 I think the information hits the brain, it stores it.

00:31:46.000 One plus one is two.

00:31:47.000 It's all there.

00:31:48.000 But unless you are there, I don't think you can truly understand what that place is like.

00:31:53.000 Yeah, I think that's probably true.

00:31:55.000 And we're also so caught up in our own little worlds, I mean, especially in this country, because America's so big, and it's so easy to maintain, to just live inside of the American cultural bubble, essentially, that it's not, you have to actively, proactively try to seek out other sources of information and other experiences.

00:32:12.000 Otherwise, it's very easy to just coast along here and not really think about the rest of the world.

00:32:17.000 It's also kind of ironic that the last big lion story that came out of Africa was the editor from the Game of Thrones that got pulled out of her car by a lion.

00:32:24.000 She was taking a photograph of it and the lion was like, ooh, I think that's an open window.

00:32:28.000 Just dove into the car and literally pulled her out in front of her friends.

00:32:32.000 You know, they're all screaming and the lion killed her right in front of everybody.

00:32:36.000 And that's what they do. 1.00

00:32:37.000 They're fucking killers. 1.00

00:32:39.000 They're nature's cleanup crew. 1.00

00:32:40.000 Anything with a limp, Anything that looks like it's easy to take out.

00:32:44.000 You know, the thing, they didn't even eat her. 0.96

00:32:45.000 They just killed her. 0.99

00:32:46.000 They just killed her for a goof. 1.00

00:32:48.000 Tired of her taking pictures. 0.94

00:32:50.000 It's like sharks.

00:32:51.000 Like, did you see that Aussie surfer, Mick Fanning, getting attacked by a great white? 1.00

00:32:55.000 That was crazy.

00:32:56.000 The whole point, like, so sharks don't like what we taste like, right?

00:33:00.000 They're after big, fatty seals.

00:33:01.000 They don't like scrawny humans.

00:33:03.000 We're all bone and sinew. 0.81

00:33:04.000 And so they'll just take a bite to see if they like us, and then they'll spit us out. 0.91

00:33:08.000 But if it's a nine-foot great white, then that little taste is enough to kill you if they rip off your leg or off your torso.

00:33:16.000 So I've always felt, especially as an Australian, where this is constantly just in the background of your mind as a possibility every time, because we're always at the beach, like...

00:33:24.000 I would prefer it if they actually liked us so at least one of us is happy.

00:33:30.000 It's just the ignominy of both being killed and then also the shark being like, eh, I didn't even like it. 1.00

00:33:36.000 Fuck you, shark. 1.00

00:33:37.000 Well, they are the ultimate cleanup crew. 1.00

00:33:39.000 They're just dead behind the eyes, black marbles for eyeballs. 1.00

00:33:43.000 I love them.

00:33:43.000 I was like a shark nerd as a kid.

00:33:45.000 Really?

00:33:45.000 I read books about sharks and would always, yeah, I think.

00:33:48.000 I love them because I don't really go in there. 0.97

00:33:50.000 I don't surf, but apparently surfing in South Africa is like fucking jogging where lions live. 0.97

00:33:56.000 It is. 0.97

00:33:57.000 Yeah, South Africa and South Australia, both at the bottom of that.

00:34:01.000 Because Great White's like cool waters, and that's just where you find them. 1.00

00:34:06.000 Fuck that. 1.00

00:34:07.000 Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck that. 1.00

00:34:10.000 Apparently they're finding a lot of them off the Malibu coast. 1.00

00:34:13.000 Right.

00:34:14.000 They're seeing them on a regular basis.

00:34:15.000 And for some reason, in northern San Francisco, that area, they breed out there.

00:34:20.000 I have a buddy, my friend Alex Ross, who runs Shark Works, which is actually a Porsche.

00:34:28.000 They take Porsches and modify them.

00:34:32.000 That's the name of his company, Shark Works.

00:34:34.000 He's a shark fan. 0.95

00:34:34.000 He's a freak. 0.95

00:34:35.000 He told me they breed out there, like in northern California.

00:34:38.000 Got to breed somewhere. 1.00

00:34:39.000 Yeah, but like, what the fuck, man? 1.00

00:34:41.000 They're like right there, these goddamn monsters. 1.00

00:34:43.000 Well, it's a good thing the water's cold, so there aren't that many people swimming in San Francisco Bay. 0.99

00:34:47.000 There's a video of them taking a surfboard and pulling it behind a boat in South Africa just to show there's this one area that's just overrun with sharks.

00:34:56.000 And as they pull this surfboard behind the boat, these sharks just, bam, just hitting the surfboard, knocking it up in the air, and you're like, what?

00:35:04.000 They're amazing.

00:35:05.000 Yeah.

00:35:06.000 Who wouldn't love them?

00:35:07.000 It's like the lion seal.

00:35:08.000 It's like, I love them.

00:35:10.000 Maybe that girl who lost her arm, she probably wouldn't be really too much into them.

00:35:13.000 Did you see this petition that they've got, this is from left field, but it just popped into my head, and I don't know why, about this 19-year-old kid who had sex with a 17-year-old girl who had told him, she was 14, and she told him she was 17,

00:35:29.000 and so he went to jail, and now he's on the sex offender registry for 25 years.

00:35:35.000 And he's not going to be able to have a career because he wanted to do software engineering.

00:35:39.000 And as part of his parole, he's not allowed to own a computer.

00:35:42.000 He's not allowed to own a smartphone because he's classified as a pedophile.

00:35:47.000 Even though she was physically mature, he thought she was 17. Her parents lobbied the judge and she lobbied the judge to plead and say, please let this guy off.

00:35:57.000 But instead, the judge threw the book at him, basically, saying, like, you should understand that sex is supposed to be a meaningful and holy experience between two people who love each other.

00:36:09.000 You shouldn't be hooking up online like this.

00:36:11.000 What?!

00:36:12.000 Yeah.

00:36:12.000 Where was this?

00:36:14.000 It was in, can we check that out?

00:36:16.000 It was in the Midwest somewhere.

00:36:18.000 I think Indiana.

00:36:20.000 So now there's like 150,000 signatures on this petition to try to get this guy off the sex offender registry.

00:36:26.000 There are people in the sex offender registry who just urinated in public.

00:36:29.000 I know a guy who did that.

00:36:30.000 I know a guy who did that.

00:36:31.000 He's a pool player, apparently.

00:36:33.000 That's his story, at least.

00:36:34.000 He went outside and he took a leak outside of this bar, and apparently it's close to a school.

00:36:39.000 And because he's within X amount of feet of a school, he got caught by these cops, and he's a sex offender for exposing himself.

00:36:46.000 Yeah.

00:36:47.000 Yeah.

00:36:48.000 Like, what?

00:36:49.000 Here's the stats.

00:36:51.000 I was looking at this yesterday. 0.96

00:36:52.000 So, in six states, you can get on the register if you hire a hooker. 0.99

00:36:57.000 Wow. 0.97

00:36:58.000 In at least a dozen states.

00:37:01.000 Hookah.

00:37:02.000 Hooker.

00:37:03.000 Hooker. 1.00

00:37:04.000 If you hire a hooker. 0.98

00:37:06.000 Hookah sounds like cheery. 0.99

00:37:08.000 Cecil the Hooker.

00:37:09.000 Hello.

00:37:09.000 I'm Cecil the Hooker.

00:37:11.000 I'm Debbie the Hooker. 0.96

00:37:12.000 Hello, Debbie.

00:37:14.000 Oh, yeah, here it is.

00:37:15.000 Make me out to be a monster.

00:37:16.000 Debate rages over man, 19. Put on a sex offender registry for 25 years.

00:37:20.000 Zach Anderson, 19, met a girl online via hookup app.

00:37:24.000 Hot or not, last year on the app, girl says she's 17. However, she's actually 14. Zach traveled 20 miles from Indiana home to Michigan and slept with her.

00:37:32.000 He was arrested after the girl's mom became worried about her whereabouts.

00:37:37.000 Whatever this petition is, Jamie, find out where it is and let's give it out online and have people fill it out and hopefully that helps.

00:37:42.000 I think it's a change.org thing or something.

00:37:44.000 I signed it.

00:37:45.000 I mean, this poor guy.

00:37:46.000 He's just a kid, man.

00:37:48.000 When you're 19, first of all, it's so hard to tell the difference between a 14 and a 17-year-old.

00:37:53.000 It's so hard.

00:37:54.000 How do you know?

00:37:55.000 There's girls that are 14 that look like they're 18. You gotta ask for ID? We all know that, yeah.

00:37:59.000 Look, I met a girl who was 25 who looked like she was fucking 16. You know, people vary wildly in their appearance. 0.96

00:38:07.000 And if you're 19, you don't have a whole lot of experience in judging that shit. 1.00

00:38:11.000 No, that's right. 1.00

00:38:12.000 It's not like he fucking got her drunk or drugged her or any of that. 0.99

00:38:16.000 The judge, first of all, they should take him and drag him in the same place they dragged that fucking surfboard. 1.00

00:38:23.000 Just take him and feed him to the sharks. 1.00

00:38:25.000 Dan Savage has been going on a lot about this, needless to say.

00:38:28.000 I like that guy.

00:38:29.000 Yeah, he's great.

00:38:30.000 He's been on here too.

00:38:31.000 Yeah, I've had him on Half Post Live a couple of times.

00:38:33.000 I mean, his point is like, what the hell legal rationale is there for saying that sex is supposed to be this meaningful thing between two people who love each other and you shouldn't be using hot or not?

00:38:45.000 Yeah, says who?

00:38:46.000 The old judge and the prosecutor.

00:38:48.000 That's not their job.

00:38:49.000 That when he was getting laid, there was no hot or not.

00:38:52.000 He wasn't getting laid.

00:38:53.000 He was probably mad that he lost his virginity at 42. Probably.

00:38:56.000 Fucker. 1.00

00:38:57.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:38:58.000 Or never has, maybe.

00:38:59.000 Puts that robe on.

00:39:01.000 I remember one judge that got caught. 0.99

00:39:02.000 He had some sort of a masturbation device underneath the robe. 0.97

00:39:05.000 No. 0.98

00:39:06.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:39:07.000 Yeah, they caught him in the middle of his proceedings. 1.00

00:39:10.000 He had some fucking pump on his dick. 1.00

00:39:13.000 No! 1.00

00:39:14.000 Crazy assholes. 1.00

00:39:15.000 That's great. 1.00

00:39:16.000 I'm wearing one right now.

00:39:17.000 That's why I'm having such a good time, Jim.

00:39:18.000 I don't mind that.

00:39:19.000 I welcome that here.

00:39:20.000 But this guy is a judge, okay?

00:39:23.000 He's supposed to follow the law.

00:39:25.000 We don't want his editorial comment on the nature of civilization and whether or not people should and should enjoy sex recreationally.

00:39:31.000 That's right.

00:39:32.000 Because that's what he's saying.

00:39:32.000 It's got nothing to do with the offense at hand.

00:39:35.000 I think any time a judge says something like that, you should be like, fuck you. 1.00

00:39:38.000 You're not a judge anymore. 1.00

00:39:39.000 Because you've obviously lost your balance.

00:39:43.000 You've lost your perspective.

00:39:45.000 That's not what we want from you.

00:39:47.000 We want from you to be an expert in the law as it's written.

00:39:51.000 And the law as it's written is supposed to protect people.

00:39:54.000 You're not protecting anybody here.

00:39:55.000 Well, that's right.

00:39:56.000 And the whole point of the sex offender registry and that kind of stuff is to protect kids and protect parents from predatory, potentially violent, repeat child rapists, right?

00:40:06.000 I mean, that's ideally what that offender registry should do.

00:40:10.000 What kids is it protecting to prosecute this 19-year-old?

00:40:14.000 Does anyone seriously believe that if he has a smartphone at any point in the next 25 years or whatever it is, that he's going to be preying upon multiple 14-year-old girls who look like they're 17?

00:40:24.000 Come on. 0.89

00:40:25.000 The whole thing is disgusting.

00:40:26.000 It's just madness that someone thinks that they could do that.

00:40:29.000 I have a theory about that, and I've talked about it on the show before, that I think that one of the main problems that we have with law enforcement and with police and even with judge and prosecutors is that it becomes a game.

00:40:41.000 It becomes a win or a lose.

00:40:43.000 If the guy gets off, you lost.

00:40:46.000 If you convict him, you scored.

00:40:49.000 And I think we have this built-in thing about playing games.

00:40:53.000 And I think it fits very keenly into that dynamic that we have about winning and losing.

00:40:59.000 And I think that's why cops can find some sort of a justification for leaving evidence, for planting evidence.

00:41:07.000 Like that guy who shot the guy in North Carolina and then drops the taser.

00:41:10.000 Do you remember that?

00:41:11.000 He shot the guy in the back and then drops the taser at his body.

00:41:14.000 In the park.

00:41:15.000 Yeah.

00:41:16.000 I think there's a lot of that where they get locked into this trying to win thing.

00:41:22.000 Some people would cheat.

00:41:23.000 People playing pool, they'll move a ball when you're not looking.

00:41:26.000 They'll cheat.

00:41:26.000 Why?

00:41:27.000 Because they want to win.

00:41:28.000 I mean, who cares?

00:41:28.000 It's so petty.

00:41:30.000 Playing pool, yes, but when you're a cop, you also have a quota. 0.99

00:41:34.000 I had this guy on, Michael Wood, who's a former police officer in Baltimore, who's enlightening me as to how fucked up Baltimore is and how fucked up The police department is and how crazy it is over there. 0.96

00:41:46.000 But he was like, you get in trouble if you're not arresting people. 1.00

00:41:50.000 So if no one commits crimes, you're fucked. 1.00

00:41:53.000 You're fucked as a cop because they're like, that's bullshit. 1.00

00:41:55.000 These people suck. 1.00

00:41:56.000 It can't be that it ever cleans up. 1.00

00:42:00.000 It can't be like, hey, you know what?

00:42:02.000 Baltimore just became Beverly Hills and everyone is like this nice old rich Jewish couple that doesn't do anything wrong and no one commits crime.

00:42:10.000 So we can just relax.

00:42:11.000 It'd be like the fire department.

00:42:13.000 Sit around and wait for something to happen instead of being forced.

00:42:16.000 Like, if the fire department had quotas.

00:42:18.000 How many fires did you put out today, Wilson?

00:42:20.000 There was no fires.

00:42:21.000 They'd be going around starting fires.

00:42:23.000 Exactly.

00:42:23.000 There would start fires.

00:42:24.000 Right.

00:42:25.000 That's a good point, right?

00:42:26.000 So it's a misalignment of incentives, basically.

00:42:29.000 Because the people who are supposed to be doing the cracking down...

00:42:32.000 on crime actually have an incentive for there still to continue to be some crime so that they can keep doing the cracking down.

00:42:37.000 It almost reminds me a little bit of the military-industrial complex where the Pentagon, the Defense Department is supposed to be about defending us, but if we don't have wars to go into, then they're kind of redundant.

00:42:50.000 So it's actually good for them when there is a war, ironically, but you would expect that the people who are trying to Yeah, I think the overall dynamic of how we operate is flawed fundamentally on so many different levels that we just sort of try to patch it up and keep moving.

00:43:13.000 And I think you can make an analogy about this hunting thing. 0.97

00:43:16.000 I mean, it is kind of fucked that you're talking about conservation when the best way to conserve is to get money from them being murdered. 0.98

00:43:23.000 I mean, that's really what you're saying. 0.98

00:43:25.000 The best way is to go over there and there was an article in HuffPost actually today that I was reading and I was kind of laughing about it because it was wrong on a lot of different levels and it was about hunting for conservation and that this model doesn't really work or that the argument doesn't hold up and one of the things they brought up was that three hundred thirty five thousand dollars that that guy had paid to go and shoot that rhino And that rhino,

00:43:53.000 they were saying, well, this rhino's in danger, these rhinos are endangered.

00:43:56.000 Yes, but that rhino was an unviable male.

00:43:59.000 Like, he was old, and he wasn't breeding anymore.

00:44:02.000 Not only that, he was killing young male rhinos and female rhinos.

00:44:05.000 And so they had targeted him for, they were going to cull him. 0.68

00:44:08.000 They were going to kill him anyway.

00:44:10.000 So the reason why this guy was able to spend so much money to shoot this endangered rhino is because they were going to shoot it anyway.

00:44:17.000 And they said, look, if we can generate a tremendous amount of income, and I had him on the podcast, and he said the amount of money that he paid was actually small.

00:44:25.000 And the reason why it was small was that All the negative publicity actually fucked up the conservation aspect of it, because there are people that would pay half a million even more for that rhino, and they didn't because they were scared of having their name thrown into the pool.

00:44:40.000 So this Corey Knowlton guy went over there, spent the $335,000, did everything legally, and he was, in a lot of ways, just like Cecil.

00:44:48.000 Or just like this Walter Hill guy, Cecil.

00:44:52.000 Then that brings us back to the social justice Twitter storm thing, right?

00:44:56.000 That you're ending up with an inferior outcome to the outcome that you could potentially have, because the people who could pull off the best outcome are so afraid of us all jumping down their throats on Twitter and ruining their lives, turning them into a Justine Sacco.

00:45:11.000 But then it also gets to like, whoa, is that really the only way you can save these rhinos? 0.99

00:45:15.000 The only way you can get $335,000 is you have to get some guy who wants to kill one and say, okay, you like killing shit? 0.99

00:45:23.000 Alright, how much money do you have? 1.00

00:45:25.000 It's a paradox, but what else are you going to do?

00:45:26.000 Who else is going to pay $350,000 to save rhinos?

00:45:29.000 I think this is the way, if people hate this idea of hunting for conservation, if they hate this idea, the best way to stop it is to really ramp up conservation efforts.

00:45:40.000 Like, to really, really ramp up the idea of non-hunting for conservation.

00:45:45.000 Yeah.

00:45:45.000 And to tell people, like, look, you can generate, like, Zimbabwe, apparently, where this guy was, they generate some insane amount of money.

00:45:54.000 I don't want to quote it because I don't know if I'm right.

00:45:56.000 I read various amounts, but I think it was like $200 million a year just from hunting, just from these people coming over there to hunt.

00:46:05.000 And someone said, well, that's the only 3% of it goes to conservation. 0.92

00:46:08.000 That's probably right, but it's still 3% of $200 million or whatever the fuck it is. 0.98

00:46:14.000 That's a lot of goddamn money for people who have nothing over there. 0.98

00:46:17.000 How much could they make from tourism, though, for people looking at the lions? 0.99

00:46:21.000 That's a good question.

00:46:22.000 And that's, I think, maybe the solution in a lot of these situations.

00:46:26.000 But also, another thing that has to be carefully considered is that, at least in some areas and some places, you have to manage populations of animals.

00:46:35.000 Because if you just leave nature onto its own, nature will wipe out animals as well. 0.98

00:46:39.000 Nature doesn't really give a fuck. 0.98

00:46:42.000 Wolves don't care if they wipe out all the elk. 0.99

00:46:44.000 They really don't care.

00:46:45.000 They don't have it in their mind.

00:46:46.000 They have it in their mind. 0.99

00:46:47.000 What can I kill and eat? 0.94

00:46:49.000 Whether it's dogs or whether it's elk or whatever it can track down and kill.

00:46:54.000 So the United States has a problem in a lot of the Western states because they reintroduce wolves.

00:47:00.000 And they reintroduced wolves, and there was a really interesting video about it, how wolves are changing Yellowstone National Park, and they sort of highlighted the positive aspects of it.

00:47:09.000 The negative aspects of it are the elk population are getting decimated, because these elk are not used to wolves, because they didn't develop with wolves.

00:47:16.000 And the wolves are within the last few generations.

00:47:18.000 These wolves have been introduced here, and they wanted to keep them within a certain population.

00:47:22.000 They wanted to keep them within, you know, a few thousand wolves in the whole country.

00:47:26.000 Well, they've gone way, way, way past that.

00:47:28.000 And so now they want to start hunting these wolves, and they do hunt these wolves in some areas, but they have all these people that are freaking out about the hunting of the wolves.

00:47:35.000 So you shouldn't hunt these wolves.

00:47:36.000 Well, you have to.

00:47:38.000 You have to manage these populations, because if you don't, then you have starvation, then you have disease, and then you have them encroaching into livestock.

00:47:47.000 I have a friend who lives in northern BC, British Columbia, and he is a hunter up there, and he also has cows.

00:47:54.000 His neighbor's cow was killed in the middle of the night by a pack of wolves.

00:47:59.000 He said, you don't even know what terror is, and when you're sleeping in your house with your children, and he said you have glass windows that protect you from the wild, right?

00:48:08.000 You're not living in a fortress.

00:48:09.000 You're living in a normal house, and you look out the window, and you see 23 30 wild, savage, murderous wolves tearing a cow apart in front of you, screaming and cheering and ripping this thing apart.

00:48:26.000 And they'll do that to your kid.

00:48:27.000 Absolutely.

00:48:28.000 They'll do that to you.

00:48:29.000 They'll do that to anything they can get a hold of.

00:48:31.000 They don't have morals.

00:48:32.000 Their idea is to stay alive.

00:48:35.000 That is their programming. 1.00

00:48:36.000 And if you don't manage their population, you're fucked. 1.00

00:48:39.000 So in that area, you can kill as many wolves as you want. 1.00

00:48:42.000 Right, right. 0.98

00:48:43.000 Where he lives. 1.00

00:48:43.000 You can kill him every day. 1.00

00:48:45.000 It all comes back to this misconception that people have that nature is at a permanent state of equilibrium and that we shouldn't tinker with it because there's something kind of fundamentally precious about a particular state of nature. 0.97

00:49:01.000 But the reality is almost all states of nature in the world right now have been impacted by human civilization already.

00:49:06.000 So as you say, the reason why we have to reintroduce the wolves is because we killed them in the first place, and the relationship between the number of elk and the number of wolves is already out of whack.

00:49:16.000 So we need to be able to manage it.

00:49:17.000 It reminds me a bit, I was talking to a marine biologist, I think I was in Tonga, a little flyspec South Pacific nation, talking to this guy about whaling.

00:49:31.000 I don't think we should be killing whales.

00:49:50.000 Yeah.

00:50:03.000 They're the ugly stepchildren of the whale species because they're eating all the plankton and they're eating all the stuff that the blue whales and the humpback whales could be using to resurrect their populations.

00:50:14.000 And in Australia, people go crazy sometimes, especially non-Australians, about kangaroo culls.

00:50:19.000 But kangaroos breed like rabbits.

00:50:21.000 They go out there and shoot kangaroos to bring down their population so they don't starve to death sometimes because there are so many of them. 0.98

00:50:27.000 I have a good buddy who's a famous hunter, Adam Greentree, in Australia.

00:50:32.000 Oh, cool.

00:50:32.000 What he explained to me is what's really crazy is they brought over certain animals.

00:50:37.000 And when they brought over certain animals, then they had to bring over certain animals to deal with these certain animals.

00:50:42.000 And one of the things they brought over is rabbits. 1.00

00:50:44.000 And they just fucked up, man. 1.00

00:50:46.000 They fucked up. 1.00

00:50:47.000 It's just terrible. 1.00

00:50:48.000 They have so many rabbits there.

00:50:49.000 Well, they brought over the foxes to deal with the rabbits.

00:50:51.000 Yeah, right.

00:50:52.000 He said they brought over the foxes to deal with the rabbits.

00:50:54.000 What they didn't anticipate is the foxes killing everything else.

00:50:57.000 Ground nesting birds.

00:50:58.000 So they're destroying these ground nesting birds and everything else.

00:51:02.000 They didn't have a mission.

00:51:04.000 It's not like they programmed their DNA and say, okay, you foxes are only attracted to rabbits. 0.89

00:51:08.000 Go kill rabbits. 0.94

00:51:09.000 Foxes kill everything. 0.92

00:51:10.000 And they also kill a lot of calves.

00:51:13.000 One of the things that foxes love to do, and it's a horrible thing, they can smell and they know when a mother is about to give birth to a calf. 0.73

00:51:20.000 So they wait until it's coming out and they literally pull it out of her vagina and eat it in front of the mother. 1.00

00:51:26.000 And that's what they do. 0.98

00:51:27.000 They do that with deer, they do that with anything they can get a hold of.

00:51:30.000 It's just a part of nature.

00:51:32.000 And they're having a real problem with that.

00:51:35.000 The fox population is just Booming.

00:51:37.000 Oh, yeah.

00:51:38.000 They've set up these crazy fences.

00:51:40.000 They've hired these contractors to build these enormous fences in Australia to try to keep the rabbits out.

00:51:44.000 The problem is it takes a while to build a fence.

00:51:46.000 As they're building the fence, the rabbits got in. 1.00

00:51:48.000 And they just fucked like rabbits inside the fence. 0.99

00:51:51.000 And now the rabbits are over there, too. 1.00

00:51:52.000 And they don't know what to do about it.

00:51:53.000 They're trying to figure out how to handle it.

00:51:55.000 No, it's terrible.

00:51:55.000 It's just, you know, that reminds me.

00:51:56.000 So, New Zealand.

00:51:57.000 I'm half New Zealand.

00:51:58.000 My mom's a New Zealander.

00:51:59.000 And I was just back there a few weeks ago.

00:52:01.000 My grandmother passed away.

00:52:03.000 She was 100. So, like...

00:52:04.000 Wow.

00:52:04.000 Congratulations to her.

00:52:05.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:52:06.000 Made it.

00:52:06.000 Yep, that's right.

00:52:07.000 Made that mark. 1.00

00:52:07.000 That's the fucking goal. 1.00

00:52:09.000 Yeah, that's right. 0.99

00:52:09.000 I mean, imagine being 100. Anyway. 0.99

00:52:11.000 That's pretty sweet.

00:52:11.000 But one interesting thing about New Zealand in terms of all of that conversation around pests is that it's possibly the only country that actually has the capability and a major movement to do so to take itself back to what the ecosystem was before humans arrived.

00:52:29.000 Yeah.

00:52:29.000 Mm-hmm.

00:52:52.000 But now that there are foxes, it's not a great survival tactic to just stand still while a fox is coming after you.

00:53:01.000 So there's this massive movement in New Zealand now, which my uncle is heavily involved in and the Prime Minister is heavily involved in, to actually genuinely eradicate all of these...

00:53:11.000 Yeah.

00:53:44.000 We did our job for the environment today.

00:53:48.000 It's great.

00:53:49.000 Well, there are hunting magazines in Australia.

00:53:52.000 They're really fucking weird, because hunting magazines in America, they show like a deer or an elk, like something you hunt for food. 0.87

00:53:59.000 You know, like, look, this guy got an elk. 0.98

00:54:01.000 Boy, that's like 500 pounds of meat.

00:54:02.000 That's awesome.

00:54:03.000 Well, hunting magazines in Australia have those as well, but they also have guys holding up foxes and feral cats.

00:54:10.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:54:11.000 And my friend gave me a copy of this magazine, and I was like, you got fucking dead cats in your magazine, like kitty cats, like my cat. 1.00

00:54:18.000 Like, this is fucked, man. 1.00

00:54:19.000 These ones are feral, man. 1.00

00:54:20.000 Yeah, they're feral.

00:54:21.000 They didn't make the cut.

00:54:22.000 They didn't make the cut.

00:54:24.000 They didn't make the team. 1.00

00:54:25.000 They're out there fucking trying to hustle. 1.00

00:54:27.000 Yeah, they're killing all the birds. 1.00

00:54:28.000 Killing all those little flightless birds and killing all of the rabbits and killing anything else they can get a hold of.

00:54:35.000 New Zealand also has a lot of invasive large game species.

00:54:39.000 It's one of the big destinations for hunting, like stags.

00:54:42.000 Stag is a type of elk.

00:54:44.000 It's similar to an elk.

00:54:45.000 And it's an enormous, beautiful, majestic creature.

00:54:49.000 But nothing kills them.

00:54:51.000 They don't have any big cats over there.

00:54:53.000 Like, we have in America, we have mountain lions, we have bears.

00:54:55.000 Those all kill the calves. 1.00

00:54:57.000 Like, the bears kill more than 50%, or as much as 50%, depending on who you ask, of the moose that are born.

00:55:06.000 Like, as they're coming out, same with the fox do, they find the mother as it's giving birth, and they literally kill the calf immediately and eat it.

00:55:13.000 It's one of their favorite things to eat.

00:55:14.000 So it keeps the population low.

00:55:15.000 There's sort of a balance to that.

00:55:17.000 But they don't have that in New Zealand.

00:55:19.000 So in New Zealand they just have these free-roaming stags that are just massive and they have no predators.

00:55:24.000 So it's a huge hunting destination.

00:55:26.000 So people fly 16 hours, they go to New Zealand, they hunt all these animals, and you can bring the meat back. 0.98

00:55:31.000 So you can bring back hundreds and hundreds of pounds of this insanely delicious stag meat.

00:55:36.000 And it's one of the big hunting destinations in the world.

00:55:42.000 You can kind of call it trophy hunting because everybody wants those antlers as well, but the meat is like the best meat in the world.

00:55:48.000 It's incredibly delicious and so good for you and so rich in nutrients that it doesn't get like the, you know, shooting lions.

00:55:55.000 No, and also it's not like stags are in danger. 0.77

00:55:57.000 But they have to shoot them.

00:55:58.000 You don't even have to have a license. 1.00

00:56:00.000 That's what's fucked. 0.98

00:56:01.000 You don't have to have tags. 0.99

00:56:02.000 Like, in America, it's hard to pull a tag for an elk.

00:56:05.000 Like, say, like, New Mexico.

00:56:07.000 New Mexico is like prime elk territory.

00:56:10.000 They have these enormous elk in New Mexico.

00:56:12.000 And it's just majestic.

00:56:14.000 And if you can get lucky and get a New Mexico elk tag for hunters, like, wow, I'm going to get the hunt elk.

00:56:20.000 How do you get it?

00:56:24.000 It's like trying to get a ticket to the opening ceremony of the Rio Olympics or something next year.

00:56:33.000 Something like that.

00:56:34.000 You have to apply, and then you've got a one-in-a-thousand shot of being accepted.

00:56:37.000 You could probably...

00:56:38.000 Well, and also in the same way, you could probably also get a scalper to sell you a ticket.

00:56:42.000 You could probably scalp a tag.

00:56:44.000 I'm sure that probably happens.

00:56:45.000 Probably a black market for them.

00:56:46.000 I don't even think it's a black market.

00:56:48.000 I think it's legal.

00:56:49.000 Outfitters get a certain amount of tags so that they could sell their tags for like 25 grand or some exorbitant rate.

00:56:55.000 And do it like that.

00:56:57.000 For 25 grand, you could fly first class to New Zealand.

00:56:59.000 You could.

00:56:59.000 Screw the tag.

00:57:00.000 16 hours, though.

00:57:01.000 It's a long flight.

00:57:02.000 You could drive to New Mexico.

00:57:03.000 Yeah.

00:57:03.000 Have your own car, sleep in a tent.

00:57:05.000 And my friend from Australia actually came and hunted in New Mexico.

00:57:09.000 He flew all the way from New Mexico, ironically, and hunted in New Mexico, or flew all the way from Australia, hunted in New Mexico, and wrote this big story about it.

00:57:17.000 Cool.

00:57:19.000 So it's complicated.

00:57:20.000 Speaking of how good the stags taste, I'm always amazed when I go back to New Zealand about how much we're missing out on great produce in America just because of the proliferation of industrialized farming.

00:57:35.000 And the dearth of great natural food.

00:57:38.000 I mean, when I was back in New Zealand, I was staying at this little bed and breakfast, had these eggs for breakfast, these just two fried eggs.

00:57:46.000 Like the yolk was bright red and it stood up like more than an inch above the rest of the egg and the white was just perfect.

00:57:54.000 It was so flavoursome.

00:57:55.000 It tasted like an egg that I haven't tasted in years and years.

00:57:58.000 I was like, where do these come from?

00:57:59.000 She's Like, oh, I just popped down the road to where we have a few truck-uns, and we just popped up this morning.

00:58:04.000 They are just fresh from the backyard.

00:58:06.000 I was like, that's what an egg...

00:58:08.000 That's just all I'm doing is eating an actual egg, which I haven't had an actual egg in ages.

00:58:13.000 When are you going back?

00:58:13.000 When are you flying back?

00:58:15.000 Oh, to New York?

00:58:16.000 To New York, yeah.

00:58:16.000 Tonight on a red-eye.

00:58:17.000 Shit! 1.00

00:58:18.000 I could have given you some eggs. 1.00

00:58:20.000 I have 22 chickens.

00:58:22.000 Yeah, I get eggs every day, man.

00:58:23.000 Can I take eggs on the plane?

00:58:24.000 I don't know if they'll let you.

00:58:26.000 Well, so you're not coming from another country.

00:58:27.000 Let me see if I can show you.

00:58:29.000 I have an image on my Instagram of how incredible the eggs look like.

00:58:32.000 Jamie, see if you can find that.

00:58:34.000 But yeah, my eggs are like a dark, dark orange.

00:58:37.000 Beautiful.

00:58:37.000 And it's because my chickens run around free.

00:58:39.000 That's another thing when you see like Vegetarian fed chickens like you see that like grass-fed chickens. 0.99

00:58:45.000 You don't want that chickens are fucking dinosaurs All right, they they eat everything. 0.99

00:58:50.000 They eat a lot of bugs. 0.98

00:58:51.000 I fed my chickens a mouse the other day I didn't want to but this is this is a story I've already told in the podcast So I'll tell you as briefly as possible because it was I was very conflicted about this I came home.

00:59:02.000 I was on the road and And my family had found a wounded hawk in our yard.

00:59:08.000 And this goes back to the hierarchy of animals argument.

00:59:10.000 And they found this wounded hawk.

00:59:12.000 Something was wrong with its wing, its broken wing.

00:59:14.000 And it was a juvenile hawk.

00:59:16.000 It was, you know, it could hunt for itself, but it was small.

00:59:19.000 And so they picked it up and put it in a box.

00:59:22.000 And they wanted to feed it.

00:59:23.000 And they had to get it to the veterinarian on Monday.

00:59:26.000 But they were trying to figure out, like, what wildlife organizations save these hawks.

00:59:30.000 So they said, well, we have to feed this thing. 0.98

00:59:31.000 We have to figure out how to feed it.

00:59:32.000 So there was a pet store that's opened that sells pinkies, which are baby mice.

00:59:36.000 And so they fed this hawk these baby mice, and it kept it alive over the weekend.

00:59:42.000 They gave it some water with an eyedropper.

00:59:45.000 And then there was one pinky left over.

00:59:48.000 And my daughter wanted to keep it. 0.62

00:59:49.000 Let's keep it.

00:59:50.000 We have to keep it.

00:59:50.000 I go, honey, this is not going to live.

00:59:52.000 It needs its mother's milk. 0.94

00:59:53.000 The mother's not here.

00:59:54.000 It can't even see.

00:59:56.000 It's only a few days old.

00:59:58.000 And I was amazed it was still alive.

00:59:59.000 And I said to my wife, what are you doing?

01:00:01.000 We've got to do something about this.

01:00:02.000 And so the two options were take it to the pet store and give it back to the pet store, which they're going to feed it to snakes. 0.99

01:00:09.000 That's what they sell them for.

01:00:10.000 They sell them for food.

01:00:12.000 I give it to the chickens.

01:00:13.000 And so my mind, no, I don't want the chickens to kill it.

01:00:16.000 Like the hierarchy of animals. 0.99

01:00:17.000 Like you were just feeding these fucking things to hawks just a day ago. 1.00

01:00:20.000 Like what the hell? 1.00

01:00:21.000 So, you know, we made an executive decision. 0.99

01:00:24.000 I decided I was going to be the one since I'm the killer.

01:00:27.000 I go out and feed it to the chickens.

01:00:29.000 So I opened up the...

01:00:29.000 That's some of my eggs.

01:00:31.000 Delicious.

01:00:32.000 See, look at the color on the yolk there.

01:00:34.000 Like you just don't get that from the supermarket.

01:00:36.000 No. 0.99

01:00:37.000 So look at that goddamn El Yucateca hot sauce too. 0.99

01:00:40.000 Yum. 0.99

01:00:41.000 I ate that this morning.

01:00:42.000 I had some of those exact same...

01:00:44.000 I have that all the time.

01:00:45.000 With Ezekiel bread, I'll have an egg sandwich.

01:00:49.000 So I put the pinky in the chicken.

01:00:52.000 I have this big, huge chicken coop where all 22 of them run around.

01:00:56.000 It's like, I don't know how many hundreds of square feet, but it's an enormous chicken coop.

01:01:00.000 Where do you live?

01:01:01.000 I live out in the burbs.

01:01:02.000 I live coyotes, deer in my yard.

01:01:05.000 Fantastic.

01:01:06.000 But I put this thing down for a second.

01:01:08.000 I mean one second.

01:01:09.000 And these chickens dove on it. 1.00

01:01:11.000 They're murderers, little fucking dinosaurs. 1.00

01:01:13.000 And they were biting each other's face to steal pieces of this little tiny baby mouse from each other. 1.00

01:01:20.000 Great.

01:01:21.000 So it goes back to the hierarchy of animals.

01:01:23.000 Absolutely.

01:01:23.000 And when you said that birds are dinosaurs, did you see the story about how scientists have now sequenced the genome of woolly mammoths?

01:01:33.000 Yes.

01:01:34.000 Which means that within the next 10 or 20 years, we're going to be able to actually recreate woolly mammoths and bring them back, should we want to.

01:01:40.000 China.

01:01:41.000 They're going to do it in China.

01:01:42.000 Probably.

01:01:42.000 Just like they've recreated Paris and all these weird cities.

01:01:45.000 Have you seen that?

01:01:46.000 No, I haven't seen that.

01:01:46.000 Oh my god.

01:01:47.000 They have these ghost towns in China where they've recreated famous European cities and no one's living in them. 0.98

01:01:54.000 I don't know what the fuck they're doing over there. 0.96

01:01:56.000 They've got like an Eiffel Tower in China? 0.99

01:01:57.000 They have everything.

01:02:00.000 It's so bizarre.

01:02:01.000 Look at this.

01:02:02.000 This is a real recreated city in China. 0.99

01:02:06.000 What the hell? 0.77

01:02:06.000 And they're ghost towns. 0.77

01:02:07.000 There's no one living in them.

01:02:09.000 I mean, I did know about the ghost towns, but I didn't know that they were replicated off other existing cities.

01:02:13.000 China's replica of Paris. 0.96

01:02:15.000 Go to that page, Jamie, because it's fucking insane. 0.95

01:02:18.000 And there's a lot of people that aren't aware of that. 0.96

01:02:20.000 It's an eerily depressing ghost town that is an exact replica of Paris.

01:02:25.000 Go to full screen if you would.

01:02:26.000 Even the apartments look like Perusian apartments.

01:02:29.000 They're exact.

01:02:30.000 They're exact.

01:02:31.000 It's insane.

01:02:32.000 And look in the background behind the Eiffel Tower.

01:02:34.000 You can see that there are just regular skyscrapers in a neighboring city.

01:02:39.000 Yeah.

01:02:39.000 It's really, really, really strange.

01:02:42.000 And they haven't just done it with Paris, but this is abandoned. 0.98

01:02:46.000 This is what's really fucked about. 0.95

01:02:47.000 But why are they abandoned? 0.97

01:02:48.000 Why aren't people moving in?

01:02:49.000 I don't think it worked.

01:02:50.000 I think they had an idea to build something and have a bunch of people move in, but everybody's like, what?

01:02:56.000 Can't they just force people to live there?

01:02:58.000 I think they're sort of slowly but surely becoming more capitalistic.

01:03:02.000 Is that a word?

01:03:04.000 Yeah, but they're no less authoritarian.

01:03:06.000 They're having a big crackdown in China.

01:03:07.000 It's much more authoritarian than it's been in the past couple of decades.

01:03:10.000 In terms of anti-free speech and just forcing people to do whatever Beijing wants them to.

01:03:15.000 Right, you're right.

01:03:15.000 But capitalism, as far as their ability to earn money...

01:03:19.000 Certainly.

01:03:20.000 That's apparently a huge issue that's in China now, is the haves and the have-nots and how baller everybody wants to act and behave.

01:03:29.000 And it's become a huge part of their culture, like flossing and having the finest of everything, the finest bag and the finest watch and the finest...

01:03:37.000 If you're a CEO of a company, you must have a home that is bigger and more grand than...

01:03:43.000 Anyone working for you or the other competitive companies that also have CEOs, you have to have the biggest out of all of them.

01:03:50.000 It's incredibly consumerist, China. 0.99

01:03:53.000 I read an interesting piece about how different Asian cultures spend their money.

01:03:58.000 And one of the points was that Japanese people, Japanese and Chinese cultures are totally different.

01:04:05.000 In Japan, when people earn money, they will usually put it towards making their home as nice as possible, so that you go into a Japanese home and it's beautiful.

01:04:16.000 Yeah.

01:04:39.000 I wonder if that's like a repression thing, like a response to repression, sort of like Catholic school girls.

01:04:45.000 Like, Catholic school girls, you know, everybody knows.

01:04:49.000 I grew up, I dated a girl that was in Catholic school when I was in high school, and she was a freak. 1.00

01:04:56.000 She was just such a freak. 0.99

01:04:57.000 And it was because everything was like, you're going to hell, sex is bad, and you get that girl alone, and she was just bananas, just bonkers. 1.00

01:05:05.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:05:06.000 I think that's what happens with people.

01:05:08.000 That could be.

01:05:08.000 The repression, you know?

01:05:10.000 Preacher's daughter type shit. 1.00

01:05:12.000 Well, they're also coming from a much lower... 1.00

01:05:13.000 Also coming from a much lower place.

01:05:16.000 So, like, I mean, if you're dirt poor, and if you've just had, you know, the past couple of decades be your big boom, then I suppose you want to show that you're profiting from it more than a country like Japan, which has basically been rich since the 60s.

01:05:28.000 Yeah, are they like a hybrid of, like, a communist and a capitalist state right now?

01:05:33.000 They're sort of like...

01:05:34.000 Well, I don't think it's fair to call them capitalists, because at its best, capitalism should be about the free exchange, about entrepreneurism, right?

01:05:43.000 And the ability of individual human beings to start their own businesses and to trade with one another.

01:05:48.000 That is still not the way that the Chinese economy runs.

01:05:51.000 But I think what you're alluding to is the fact that they are rapaciously pro-money and desperate to enhance their economic growth as quickly as possible.

01:06:03.000 So it's not like they're, you know, Mao Zedong said, you know, when someone said that the reforms that he was bringing in, or maybe it was Deng Xiaoping, said that the reforms that he was bringing in were kind of capitalist, and shouldn't he have more of an allegiance to communism?

01:06:16.000 He said, you know, black cat, white cat, as long as it catches mice. 0.98

01:06:21.000 Ooh, what a clever bastard. 1.00

01:06:23.000 Why are Chinese so good at saying things? 1.00

01:06:25.000 They're so good at sayings, you know, like Sun Tzu's Art of War. 1.00

01:06:29.000 You read that shit today, like, damn it, that dude nailed it. 1.00

01:06:32.000 Right. 1.00

01:06:32.000 So, you know, they want to make money. 1.00

01:06:34.000 They don't give a toss whether you call it capitalism or communism.

01:06:38.000 I think you might describe it as a kind of, it's almost like a 19th century mercantilist I mean,

01:07:04.000 that's kind of what it's like in China.

01:07:13.000 So, it used to be that you got assigned an occupation saying the way that we think of Russia or the way that we think of Cuba, that they tell you, hey, this is what you're going to do, and so you go do this, and you get paid X amount by the state, and that's all you get.

01:07:28.000 But that wasn't good for business.

01:07:30.000 You've got to give people an incentive in order to push harder and to innovate.

01:07:36.000 They have to know that that juicy watch is dangling from that string like a carrot in front of them. 0.98

01:07:43.000 That's what makes them push and that's right where they fucked up and that's where they sort of see they see that about America like look these dummies work all day for a Lexus They just want that car so bad and they see that billboard as they're driving home and they're fucking shitty Hyundai not that Hyundai's are shitty by the way I like how those. 0.96

01:07:59.000 They're actually really nice now. 0.97

01:08:00.000 They're great. 0.99

01:08:01.000 I was in one this weekend in Brazil, and I was like, these things are like a fucking Mercedes now. 0.99

01:08:05.000 You know what? 0.98

01:08:06.000 I'm driving a Kia here.

01:08:08.000 Not bad. 0.92

01:08:08.000 I always thought of Kias as being, like, crappy. 0.92

01:08:10.000 It's fantastic.

01:08:11.000 No, not bad anymore.

01:08:12.000 I got an upgrade, like, at the, you know, the Avis guy gave me an upgrade, I don't know, because I'm some elite thing or something, or some credit card or whatever that I've got.

01:08:19.000 And he was like, oh, I've upgraded you to a Kia.

01:08:21.000 I'm like, what, are you kidding me?

01:08:23.000 You upgraded me to a Kia.

01:08:24.000 Oh, thanks a lot, buddy.

01:08:25.000 Some upgrade.

01:08:26.000 You upgraded me to the worst car in the world.

01:08:28.000 No, it's great.

01:08:29.000 Well, this is the golden age of automotive engineering.

01:08:32.000 Like, all cars are so...

01:08:34.000 They've learned so many lessons from the past few decades that all cars... 1.00

01:08:38.000 The United States used to be known for having shit cars. 1.00

01:08:42.000 Like, we used to make shitty fucking cars. 1.00

01:08:43.000 We made really cool-looking cars in the 60s, and then for, like, 20 years, we just shit all over the people that were buying cars. 1.00

01:08:51.000 And you had to be, like, a martyr to buy an American car.

01:08:54.000 Like, a Japanese car was cheaper, it was better engineered, it would break down less.

01:08:59.000 I mean, not for most of automotive history.

01:09:01.000 You're talking about, like, starting in the 80s or something.

01:09:03.000 I think it was the 70s.

01:09:05.000 From the 70s on, when the gas crisis hit, in the 1970s, I believe it was like 73, 74, American muscle cars and American, like, big cars, like the Cadillacs, the things that people really loved about American cars.

01:09:17.000 Those, like, signified America.

01:09:19.000 You know, when you thought about automobiles, you thought about those big Cadillacs, those smooth, cushy rides.

01:09:25.000 No one was making those in Germany.

01:09:26.000 No one was making those.

01:09:27.000 That was a true American product.

01:09:29.000 But then gas became insanely expensive. 0.99

01:09:32.000 And once the gas crisis hit, America started making four-cylinder Mustangs that looked like shit, and everything just fell apart. 0.98

01:09:40.000 And they were really unreliable. 0.99

01:09:43.000 Then there was also the issues with unions.

01:09:45.000 The issues with automotive unions.

01:09:47.000 The union workers wanted to get paid a fuckload of money.

01:09:49.000 And I had a buddy who was a union employee in Detroit, and he told me, like, how they used to do it.

01:09:55.000 And it was... 0.95

01:09:56.000 It's just ridiculous.

01:09:57.000 The demands the unions had and what they were able to achieve in bargaining, they would have a job that one person could do, easily.

01:10:07.000 Eight-hour day job.

01:10:08.000 But two people would take that job.

01:10:09.000 There had to be a two-person job. 0.94

01:10:11.000 The union demanded it.

01:10:12.000 So what they would do is one guy would show up for four hours a day, and then he would leave, and the other guy would show up for four hours a day.

01:10:17.000 So they would both punch in. 0.91

01:10:19.000 But one guy would punch in at 9 o'clock, and he would go fuck off for four hours, and then he'd go back, and the other guy would relieve him, and they would just switch off like that. 0.97

01:10:30.000 And the car companies would have these massive long-term liabilities, right? 0.94

01:10:34.000 Because they'd have pension programs that were defined benefit.

01:10:47.000 Yeah.

01:10:53.000 That's a lot for a company to be able to bear.

01:11:13.000 Mm-hmm.

01:11:16.000 Mm-hmm.

01:11:19.000 Yeah, one of the biggest Mitsubishi plants in the Asia-Pacific was in Australia.

01:11:25.000 Like, you know, why are they doing it in Australia?

01:11:28.000 I don't know.

01:11:29.000 They must have got some sort of a deal.

01:11:30.000 I don't know how it works.

01:11:31.000 And then South Korea came online and started making good cars, like the Hyundai's and the Kia's.

01:11:35.000 Yeah, right.

01:11:36.000 The Hyundais are fantastic.

01:11:38.000 Their luxury one that they make, that one that looks like a Mercedes, they sort of ripped off Mercedes design.

01:11:43.000 Yeah, what's that called?

01:11:45.000 Equice or something.

01:11:45.000 No, that's not it.

01:11:46.000 What is it called?

01:11:47.000 It's not an Elantra, is it?

01:11:48.000 Genesis Equus or something like that.

01:11:49.000 Yeah, right.

01:11:50.000 Is that it?

01:11:50.000 Yeah.

01:11:51.000 But I've heard you talk also about the muscle cars of the 50s that are still in Cuba and still working and running, right?

01:12:00.000 I went to Cuba over, was it this past New Year's?

01:12:04.000 No, like a year and a half ago.

01:12:07.000 And man, it's just incredible seeing, like, cruising around Havana, all these old, cool, like, they love those cars.

01:12:14.000 Yeah.

01:12:14.000 And they're still going.

01:12:15.000 Yank tanks, they call them.

01:12:16.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:12:17.000 They call them yank tanks because they built these enormous metal fucking buildings that you could drive around in. 0.99

01:12:23.000 Mm-hmm. 0.99

01:12:23.000 Those 55 Chevys and things along those lines. 0.99

01:12:26.000 Yeah.

01:12:27.000 What is it?

01:12:28.000 Well, I was going to say, do you think that the American auto industry is ever going to be as innovative as it was back in the 50s and is ever going to rule the coupe?

01:12:34.000 It's gonna be real tough to rule the coupe, but they've made an insane comeback.

01:12:38.000 The new American cars are incredible.

01:12:40.000 I drove one of those Cadillac Escalades.

01:12:42.000 That thing is a marvel of engineering.

01:12:45.000 The entire screen, the entire dashboard is an LCD screen.

01:12:49.000 Huge LCD screen that controls the dashboard.

01:12:52.000 LCD screen that controls the navigation.

01:12:54.000 Everything is magnetic ride control, so you go over bumps and it's like butter.

01:12:59.000 Incredible engineering.

01:13:00.000 The car is beautiful.

01:13:01.000 They ride great.

01:13:02.000 It's an enormous car, but it rides like a small car.

01:13:05.000 When you drive one of those big Cadillac Escalades, that thing feels like you're driving a mid-sized car.

01:13:12.000 This is what it looks like inside.

01:13:13.000 Wow, that looks gorgeous.

01:13:15.000 They took it up a hundred notches.

01:13:18.000 I mean, it's an amazing car.

01:13:20.000 I almost bought one.

01:13:22.000 I came real close, but I went with the Lexus instead.

01:13:25.000 Because Lexus is...

01:13:26.000 They go...

01:13:27.000 They're based off of the Land Cruiser, and the Land Cruiser is one of the best platforms for driving off-road.

01:13:33.000 They actually have a lift.

01:13:34.000 You press a button, it lifts the car up, so it gives you more ground clearance.

01:13:38.000 On the Lexus or the Land Cruiser?

01:13:39.000 Lexus is the same car as the Land Cruiser.

01:13:41.000 Amazing.

01:13:41.000 Lexus LS570, or LX570, yeah, is the same exact car as the Toyota Land Cruiser.

01:13:47.000 It's just they...

01:13:48.000 It's like they call it a Land Cruiser in drag.

01:13:50.000 They just make it a little more fluffy on the inside and a little prettier on the outside. 0.94

01:13:54.000 But I'm an idiot, and for some reason I'm like, well, what if an apocalypse happens and I have to drive on the dirt? 1.00

01:14:00.000 I need a fucking car that can drive on the dirt. 1.00

01:14:02.000 I'm one of those dummies that thinks, I need a gas canister in my car in case there's no fucking gas anywhere. 1.00

01:14:07.000 You'll be laughing on the other side of your face when it happens, when it all goes to shit. 1.00

01:14:10.000 No, when it all goes to shit, if a meteor hits, I hope it hits me in the head. 1.00

01:14:14.000 I hope the meteor hits my house, and I hope... 1.00

01:14:16.000 You don't even know about it.

01:14:18.000 I don't want...

01:14:18.000 What's that whistling sound?

01:14:20.000 Boom! 0.99

01:14:21.000 I don't want to be that guy that's like the prepper that's right.

01:14:26.000 Yes!

01:14:26.000 I knew it!

01:14:27.000 You know when you're fucking trying to take little catnaps while you're holding a shotgun because you're worried that someone's going to come and steal your canned peaches? 0.99

01:14:34.000 I don't want to be that guy. 0.99

01:14:35.000 No, I don't want to be that guy either.

01:14:37.000 But then I also don't want to be completely unprepared.

01:14:39.000 I don't even have an emergency.

01:14:40.000 I live in Manhattan and I don't even have a little bag with some granola bars in it and some fresh water in case we get hit with a dirty bomb or something.

01:14:48.000 Well, I have that stuff.

01:14:50.000 I have that stuff.

01:14:51.000 I have freeze-dried food.

01:14:53.000 I have hundreds of pounds of frozen meat because I hunt.

01:14:57.000 So if I can keep some sort of power on, like by generator or solar, I have food for a long time.

01:15:05.000 But that's not why I do it.

01:15:07.000 I do it because that's what I actually do eat.

01:15:09.000 I'm not really prepping for doomsday.

01:15:11.000 In terms of those cars being so sophisticated nowadays...

01:15:16.000 I was interviewing a guy from, I think it was Gorka, who was involved in a test where these hackers encouraged him to get in the car.

01:15:25.000 I think it was a Cadillac, right?

01:15:27.000 And then they hacked into the...

01:15:29.000 It was a Jeep.

01:15:31.000 Was it?

01:15:32.000 It was recent, right?

01:15:33.000 Really recent?

01:15:33.000 They shut it off?

01:15:34.000 They even turned it off the side of the road.

01:15:37.000 That's right.

01:15:38.000 So you could have...

01:15:39.000 Like, imagine if you have hundreds of thousands of a particular type of car driving around in America, and because they're all Wi-Fi enabled and they're all on the satellite and everything, you can have hackers or terrorists or just neater wells of some kind hack in and...

01:15:53.000 Theoretically, I mean, they can certainly slow down the car, they can certainly make the car turn, they can certainly screw around with it in some way, but if they could make it speed up to 160 miles an hour and then veer sharply to the right, you could kill 100,000 people...

01:16:07.000 Like that.

01:16:08.000 Like that.

01:16:09.000 Well, that's the argument for Michael Hastings.

01:16:11.000 You know that story, right?

01:16:13.000 Remind me.

01:16:13.000 Michael Hastings was a journalist that was writing all these stories about generals.

01:16:17.000 Like, he had taken down...

01:16:19.000 He was one of the guys that had taken down...

01:16:21.000 Did he do McChrystal?

01:16:23.000 McChrystal Peace?

01:16:24.000 Well, let me find out about it.

01:16:25.000 I remember his name.

01:16:27.000 Yeah.

01:16:27.000 Michael Hastings.

01:16:28.000 Oh! 0.60

01:16:29.000 Well, his car, he had actually...

01:16:32.000 Was it?

01:16:33.000 Was that who he had taken down?

01:16:34.000 Yeah, he did the McChrystal Peace.

01:16:35.000 Yeah, he did the McChrystal Peace.

01:16:36.000 That's right.

01:16:37.000 So he did that, and he was insanely worried about his safety.

01:16:42.000 And he was telling people, like, look, if I wind up dead, I didn't kill myself.

01:16:46.000 Just know this.

01:16:47.000 Well, he died because his Mercedes was barreling down Sunset, going like 120 miles an hour, and went right into a tree.

01:16:54.000 I remember that.

01:16:55.000 And they were like, he committed suicide.

01:16:56.000 And not only that, the engine flew from the wreckage.

01:17:00.000 Like, there he is right there.

01:17:02.000 That's the video of the car. 0.99

01:17:04.000 And these cars today are so fucking computer controlled. 0.91

01:17:09.000 There's so much gadgetry and stuff going on inside of them that there are many that argue that not only has this been possible for a long time, but they've been doing this for a long time. 0.96

01:17:20.000 He was a good guy.

01:17:21.000 He was a good reporter.

01:17:22.000 He was with BuzzFeed.

01:17:24.000 Well, there's a lot of people that believe he was murdered.

01:17:26.000 Yep, there's a piece.

01:17:27.000 I've got a piece here in New York Magazine, which I just chatted to Jamie.

01:17:31.000 Who killed Michael Hastings?

01:17:33.000 Reflexively distrustful, eager to make powerful enemies, the young journalist whose Mercedes exploded in Los Angeles one night couldn't possibly have died accidentally, could he?

01:17:46.000 But, here's the thing.

01:17:47.000 A lot of people that work really hard and that do long hours and are involved in journalism, they take Adderall, okay? 0.99

01:17:54.000 And Adderall and crystal meth are fucking kissing cousins. 0.97

01:17:57.000 They're almost exactly the same. 0.99

01:17:59.000 I'm not saying that he wasn't really on crystal meth.

01:18:02.000 I don't know.

01:18:03.000 I didn't look at the toxicology examination, but they could have been lying about it and just it could have been Adderall. 0.97

01:18:08.000 Adderall is so fucking common. 0.99

01:18:10.000 There's so many people that take that shit, especially people that are on deadlines and they need energy to push through something. 1.00

01:18:15.000 It's pretty common in journalism, yeah. 1.00

01:18:16.000 So the idea is, oh, he went back on the drugs, he was on Adderall and he drove into a tree.

01:18:20.000 Man, or meth and drove into a tree.

01:18:23.000 Not necessarily.

01:18:24.000 Who knows?

01:18:25.000 Who knows?

01:18:25.000 Speaking of Adderall, did you see the story this week that the Electronic Gamers Association is going to start drug testing?

01:18:32.000 Yes!

01:18:32.000 It's hilarious!

01:18:33.000 So video gamers are going to be drug tested for...

01:18:35.000 For PEDs, yeah. 0.84

01:18:37.000 Yeah, for PEDs, like Adderall.

01:18:39.000 I mean, I had a conversation on HuffPost Live with the head of that...

01:18:44.000 What is it?

01:18:45.000 Is it the Electronic Gaming Association?

01:18:47.000 It's something...

01:18:47.000 SRB, I think.

01:18:49.000 Yeah, so I had the president of that on, or whatever, and a bunch of gamers, and some sports psychologists and ethicists about this.

01:18:58.000 And it's so weird why we object to doping in the first place.

01:19:04.000 It gets very complicated.

01:19:06.000 I understand...

01:19:08.000 We're all on Catterall.

01:19:09.000 Right, that's right.

01:19:10.000 So that's what sparked this whole thing, because he made those comments, so then they're like, oh, we've got to crack down on it.

01:19:15.000 Well, that's like cracking down on comics for marijuana. 0.98

01:19:18.000 If they start drug testing comedy clubs, good fucking luck. 0.98

01:19:22.000 You know what Greg Fitzsimmons said last night on my wonderful podcast that everyone should listen to? 0.99

01:19:27.000 WTPlive.com.

01:19:28.000 Oh, what is it?

01:19:29.000 WTPlive.com.

01:19:30.000 And isn't there an underscore in somewhere?

01:19:32.000 In the Twitter there is.

01:19:33.000 WTP underscore live on Twitter.

01:19:35.000 Who has WTP live on Twitter?

01:19:39.000 That's a good point. 1.00

01:19:40.000 What the fuck? 1.00

01:19:40.000 Some asshole who I'm going to have to beat up. 1.00

01:19:42.000 How's that possible? 1.00

01:19:42.000 How's that possible if somebody else has that? 1.00

01:19:44.000 Exactly.

01:19:44.000 Why would they?

01:19:45.000 I don't know what it is.

01:19:46.000 If you want to get on our mailing list, you can email info at wtplive.com.

01:19:51.000 And what was Greg saying?

01:19:52.000 The great Greg Fitzsimmons, my good buddy?

01:19:54.000 The great Greg Fitzsimmons was saying, now I've forgotten what he was saying.

01:19:58.000 What were we just talking about?

01:19:59.000 Drugs, Adderall, comedy clubs, pot.

01:20:01.000 Oh, yeah, that's right.

01:20:02.000 He was saying, like, if you were going to take Lance Armstrong's medals away, he was like, if you took away every award or prize that you give to people for something that they did while they were on drugs, there would be no Grammys.

01:20:14.000 It's true.

01:20:15.000 Right?

01:20:15.000 It's true.

01:20:16.000 Well, Bill Hicks had that great joke about it, you know, about drugs.

01:20:21.000 If you want to stop drugs, take all your albums.

01:20:26.000 Uh-huh. 1.00

01:20:26.000 Fucking throw them away. 1.00

01:20:27.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:20:27.000 If you hate drugs. 1.00

01:20:28.000 All those great songs and Led Zeppelin, The Doors, all that shit, they were on drugs. 1.00

01:20:33.000 They were all on drugs. 0.97

01:20:34.000 What do you think about doping?

01:20:36.000 Because I think, like, so, all right, Lance Armstrong.

01:20:38.000 I'm glad you brought this up because Jeff Nowitzki, who busted Lance Armstrong, is going to be on my podcast.

01:20:43.000 Brilliant.

01:20:43.000 He was hired by the Ultimate Fighting Championship.

01:20:46.000 The UFC is trying to clear up the sport.

01:20:48.000 And they're trying to clean it up by hiring the most knowledgeable anti-doping guy ever.

01:20:54.000 The guy who busted the Balco scandal and Lance Armstrong and all that stuff.

01:20:58.000 I had the most fascinating conversation with him in Brazil.

01:21:01.000 We were at a bar and we were talking for over an hour about all the different methods that they're using now to get away with That's My Man.

01:21:09.000 Great guy.

01:21:10.000 Really enjoyed talking to him.

01:21:12.000 And he'll be on soon.

01:21:14.000 And really empathetic and sympathetic guy. 0.90

01:21:17.000 You know, he's not like some evil person who's just, you know, like some fucking Jack Law here to take down the criminals.

01:21:25.000 He's the guy who was sort of seeing both sides of it.

01:21:29.000 And that's one of the reasons why the people cooperated with him to kind of go after Lance Armstrong.

01:21:35.000 Yeah, so people will say like, alright, well Lance, you know, the reason why what Lance Armstrong did is bad is because it's unfair.

01:21:44.000 Well, LeBron James' genetics is unfair, right?

01:21:48.000 I mean, the fact that I now feel better after having two cups of coffee than I did an hour ago is unfair.

01:21:53.000 Me too. 0.98

01:21:53.000 Yeah, I mean, I'm all jet-lagged and shit, but I have two cups of coffee and four alpha brains, and I'm kicking right now. 0.98

01:21:59.000 How different is that stuff from Adderall? 0.97

01:22:01.000 I mean, isn't it all just degrees?

01:22:03.000 Maybe we should just allow doping.

01:22:07.000 I think to a certain extent, I think one of the real problems with Lance Armstrong was that he was suing people that were accurately talking about his drug use, because they got busted, and he was going after them and trying to ruin them. 1.00

01:22:17.000 He's a cunt. 1.00

01:22:18.000 Absolutely, and a liar, just a pathological liar and deceiver. 1.00

01:22:22.000 But that's less interesting, I think, than the question of whether or not the rules that he broke should be against the rules in the first place. 0.97

01:22:29.000 I agree with that.

01:22:30.000 And also, there's also an argument that the Tour de France...

01:22:33.000 Notice how I said France and not France.

01:22:35.000 I liked that.

01:22:36.000 I was very impressed.

01:22:36.000 I'm very, very good at that.

01:22:38.000 You'll be misspelling tires with a Y pretty soon.

01:22:40.000 They say that that race is so grueling, there's an argument that it's actually healthier to do with drugs.

01:22:47.000 That doing it with drugs actually allows your body to recuperate in a way that you would be breaking it down and you would be susceptible to rhabdomyelosis.

01:22:57.000 You know, that's that thing that those CrossFit people get.

01:22:59.000 They start pissing.

01:23:01.000 It looks like Diet Coke.

01:23:02.000 Have you ever seen it?

01:23:03.000 No, I haven't seen it.

01:23:04.000 Oh my god, it's awful.

01:23:05.000 When people have a breakdown of their muscle tissue, and then your body starts processing it, and it comes out in your urine, like ultramarathon runners have it.

01:23:16.000 I have a buddy who runs ultramarathons, and he says when you're done, you pee, it's black, like soda or like coffee.

01:23:24.000 It's awful.

01:23:24.000 And it's just your body, your kidneys are malfunctioning, everything's just shutting down.

01:23:28.000 Yeah, see, I mean, I'm not the fittest guy in the world, and I'm not proud of that.

01:23:31.000 Are you sure?

01:23:32.000 I am not the fittest guy in the world, Joe Rogan.

01:23:34.000 Have you tested yourself?

01:23:34.000 I have not tested myself.

01:23:35.000 I could be.

01:23:36.000 That's a very good point.

01:23:37.000 I might be.

01:23:38.000 But I think if you're doing a string, and, you know, if you like running marathons, good for you.

01:23:44.000 Good for you, America. 0.97

01:23:46.000 But if you're pissing black, your body's telling you that you shouldn't be doing that. 1.00

01:23:51.000 Well, what they're doing is they're just trying to push past all the pain and discomfort and show mental toughness, and that's what's supposed to be inspiring, is that, you know, this guy ran, like my buddy, Cameron Haynes, he ran 106 miles in 24 hours.

01:24:05.000 It was a 24-hour race where you had a one-mile course, and he did it 106 times in 24 hours.

01:24:11.000 And he came in fourth place! 0.99

01:24:13.000 He didn't even fucking win! 0.99

01:24:15.000 Some dude ran like 120-something miles. 0.99

01:24:18.000 It's insane!

01:24:19.000 That's crazy!

01:24:20.000 Animals.

01:24:20.000 I don't know.

01:24:22.000 Animals.

01:24:22.000 That's like...

01:24:24.000 I think you got beat by a chick, too. 0.99

01:24:25.000 I think a chick came in third place. 1.00

01:24:27.000 Well, she's definitely on the juice.

01:24:28.000 You never know.

01:24:29.000 She might just be angry. 0.92

01:24:32.000 Reminds me of like...

01:24:34.000 Running on the fuel of hate.

01:24:37.000 Miranda's the equivalent of 50 Ironman triathlons in 50 days in 50 states to promote fitness among youths.

01:24:43.000 Oh my god!

01:24:44.000 But is that fitness?

01:24:45.000 No.

01:24:46.000 I mean, are you actually doing good for yourself if you do 50 triathlons in 50 days?

01:24:50.000 Well, his body has the capacity to do that kind of work, and my body doesn't.

01:24:55.000 So the argument is that he's definitely more fit.

01:24:57.000 You're better than me.

01:24:58.000 The argument is that his body's more fit than the average person's body, but he's definitely not doing a service.

01:25:05.000 Like my friend who did it, Cameron, he did it a couple months ago, and he said he hasn't recovered yet.

01:25:10.000 He said he still hasn't recovered.

01:25:11.000 He said when he runs, like he still runs, but when he runs, he's like he's still feeling it.

01:25:15.000 He's not back to baseline.

01:25:16.000 To where he was.

01:25:17.000 His times are off.

01:25:18.000 He's exhausted.

01:25:19.000 And he didn't even come first.

01:25:21.000 No.

01:25:21.000 Or second.

01:25:21.000 Or third.

01:25:22.000 His legs swelled up.

01:25:23.000 He said almost twice the size they normally are.

01:25:26.000 Ugh.

01:25:26.000 Yeah.

01:25:27.000 Fuck all that. 1.00

01:25:28.000 I don't want... 1.00

01:25:29.000 Yeah.

01:25:29.000 I'm happy here.

01:25:30.000 I'm going to open a beer pretty soon.

01:25:32.000 We got whiskey, man.

01:25:33.000 We can just go hard right now.

01:25:34.000 We should do it. 0.99

01:25:35.000 Let's spark up a joint and fucking have a drink. 0.99

01:25:38.000 I would definitely have a beer. 0.98

01:25:40.000 You want a beer?

01:25:41.000 Yeah, can I? Jamie, get this man a beer.

01:25:43.000 Get this man a couple of beers.

01:25:44.000 Yeah, great.

01:25:45.000 Look, it's 510. I'm Australian.

01:25:46.000 As soon as the clock ticks five, every Australian has to start drinking.

01:25:50.000 Yeah, I'll have a beer, too, as well.

01:25:51.000 That sounds good.

01:25:52.000 It's the law.

01:25:53.000 We've got a few good ones.

01:25:54.000 We've got that, what is that, butte?

01:25:55.000 Do you like a dark beer?

01:25:57.000 Black butte port?

01:25:58.000 Yeah, I love that stuff.

01:25:59.000 Yeah.

01:26:00.000 I think there's a real good argument that coffee is a stimulant, and that stimulant helps, and if that helps, why not Adderall?

01:26:10.000 And also, marijuana allows you to see things in a different way, and if you can do that and maybe write something better, marijuana helped you write that thing.

01:26:19.000 That's not exactly just your creativity, it's also the marijuana.

01:26:23.000 Yeah, and the weird thing is when there are drugs that are not actually performance enhancing but are also banned, like marijuana will be banned in sports where it clearly wouldn't actually give you an advantage.

01:26:34.000 Well, like which ones?

01:26:35.000 I don't know.

01:26:35.000 Any kind of athletic sport is probably not going to be enhanced by marijuana, is it?

01:26:38.000 That's actually where you're wrong.

01:26:40.000 Really?

01:26:40.000 They're actually showing, especially ultramarathon runners, they're showing that marijuana does have a significant impact on ultramarathon runners.

01:26:46.000 Well, what about hand-eye coordination sports?

01:26:48.000 What about playing soccer or something?

01:26:50.000 You're probably not going to be better when you're high, are you?

01:26:51.000 You're wrong about that, too.

01:26:52.000 That's where it's crazy.

01:26:52.000 You're kidding me.

01:26:53.000 No, jiu-jitsu is a big one.

01:26:55.000 Jiu-jitsu, it's really, really, really common for jiu-jitsu guys to train on marijuana.

01:27:00.000 As a matter of fact, I'm better at jiu-jitsu when I do marijuana than I am when I'm sober.

01:27:05.000 How high can you get and still be better? 1.00

01:27:07.000 High as fuck. 1.00

01:27:08.000 Really? 1.00

01:27:08.000 High as fuck to the point where I can't even demonstrate techniques. 1.00

01:27:10.000 I forget how it works. 1.00

01:27:12.000 How does this fucking work? 0.99

01:27:14.000 But when you're in it, see, when you're sparring, the idea about sparring is, okay, we got this stuff, this is from New Mexico, this is really good. 0.99

01:27:22.000 You can take it.

01:27:22.000 Yeah, I'll try the new one, because I know Newcastle and I know Guinness, so I'll try it.

01:27:26.000 Thanks, Jamie.

01:27:27.000 But the idea is that it allows you to get to this sort of zen state, where you flow.

01:27:32.000 So the things you already know.

01:27:34.000 They think it's not that good for learning stuff, but it's actually...

01:27:37.000 Oh, thank you, sir.

01:27:38.000 What a gentleman.

01:27:38.000 He opens one and hands it to me, and then gets his own.

01:27:42.000 What a good man.

01:27:42.000 I was raised right, Joe.

01:27:44.000 You were, sir.

01:27:45.000 You were.

01:27:45.000 The idea is that it's not good at learning stuff, because it just goes in and out, but the stuff you already know, that's in your system, that you already have trained down, you know, it's like a part of your sort of synapses.

01:27:57.000 Yeah, so it's almost muscle memory in a way, like it doesn't require a lot of cognitive effort.

01:28:01.000 Yeah, like tennis players apparently find marijuana helps them significantly as well.

01:28:06.000 Recreational tennis players would tell you when they get really high, they kind of like see the ball better.

01:28:10.000 They can move.

01:28:10.000 Pool players.

01:28:11.000 It's a huge thing with pool.

01:28:13.000 With pool, you can feel where the ball's going better.

01:28:16.000 The guys who play, they say it gives them like a 10-20% advantage when they smoke pot.

01:28:21.000 Do you think there are different types of people who respond to the drug differently?

01:28:23.000 Of course.

01:28:24.000 Because, I mean, I'm not a huge pot smoker.

01:28:26.000 I'll have it occasionally.

01:28:27.000 I can only have a very small amount just so I get that buzz.

01:28:30.000 If I have too much, I start to get scattered and paranoid and just like, I can't focus.

01:28:35.000 I can't do things.

01:28:35.000 I can't be creative.

01:28:36.000 I can't follow the plot of television shows and stuff.

01:28:39.000 Whereas I know I've got tons of friends who are like, well, that doesn't happen to me.

01:28:44.000 Yeah, well, they probably smug a lot of pot, too, though.

01:28:46.000 Yeah, that's probably true.

01:28:47.000 The tolerance thing, that's real.

01:28:49.000 And also the acceptance of the experience. 0.99

01:28:51.000 I think when you fight the experience, like, oh, fucking pot, I'm high. 0.98

01:28:55.000 And that's where paranoia comes in. 0.98

01:28:57.000 And also, I think paranoia is also...

01:29:00.000 One of the things that marijuana does is sort of it lowers the boundaries that we put up in order to get things done.

01:29:05.000 We have boundaries.

01:29:06.000 There's sort of blinders that you put on that allow you to get through your job and get in your car and drive home to your family and not consider the massive amount of variables that the world creates.

01:29:16.000 Or that the world presents.

01:29:18.000 And also space. 0.97

01:29:19.000 The fact that you're on a fucking giant 24,000 mile round ball that's going a thousand miles an hour in a circle and hurling through infinity. 0.96

01:29:27.000 When you smoke pot, it sort of unveils all of these possibilities and potentials and it freaks people out. 0.98

01:29:34.000 Well, I don't get freaked out by that.

01:29:36.000 I mean, what you're describing...

01:29:37.000 You're not taking enough.

01:29:38.000 You need more than you will.

01:29:39.000 Or maybe I just need a better dealer or something.

01:29:42.000 I have some for you.

01:29:42.000 You want to try it?

01:29:43.000 Yeah, sure.

01:29:44.000 I don't want to take it on the plane, though.

01:29:46.000 I don't want to have it now.

01:29:47.000 Just smell this and it'll get you high. 0.72

01:29:50.000 Jesus Christ.

01:29:51.000 Are you allowed to have this?

01:29:52.000 Is this medicinal or something?

01:29:53.000 Oh, yes.

01:29:54.000 I'm patient.

01:29:55.000 I have issues.

01:29:55.000 Oh, wow, that smells great.

01:29:57.000 Beautiful, right?

01:29:57.000 It's flowers.

01:29:58.000 What you're talking about there in terms of the doors of perception being kind of shut down during normal behavior strikes me as more of a psychedelic thing.

01:30:06.000 I mean, I've had some of the most insightful experiences of my entire life.

01:30:11.000 I don't do them anymore, but when I was in my late teens and early 20s doing acid or mushrooms and having that...

01:30:28.000 We're good to go.

01:30:43.000 We'd go crazy.

01:30:45.000 You wouldn't even bother working and eating anymore because everything would seem so kind of trivial.

01:30:51.000 Yeah, and it does to many people.

01:30:53.000 I have a lot of friends in the quote-unquote psychedelic community that live their lives around the time they do psychedelics and then the downtime in between there where they're sort of processing it and gearing up for their next psychedelic trip.

01:31:07.000 And...

01:31:09.000 For them, it's just, that's their life.

01:31:12.000 It's a part of their life.

01:31:13.000 Like, those crazy trips and those realizations, that is a significant part of their existence and what makes life wonderful to them.

01:31:21.000 And then there's people like you that say, hey, I did it before, I don't do it anymore.

01:31:25.000 Yeah, well, I mean...

01:31:28.000 I wonder if there are also, like, non-drug-related ways of getting there.

01:31:33.000 Like, I know this guy, Gadhadra Pandit Dusa, who's a Hindu chaplain.

01:31:37.000 He's the first Hindu chaplain of Columbia University in New York.

01:31:40.000 Yeah.

01:31:42.000 So, Hinduism as a religion, but a chaplain... 0.94

01:31:46.000 Yeah, which I guess is the religious authority at the university.

01:31:50.000 Oh, okay.

01:31:50.000 So it's a designation by the university?

01:31:52.000 By the university.

01:31:53.000 Yeah, but he's just a Hindu spiritual teacher in New York.

01:31:56.000 Lovely guy.

01:31:57.000 And he is just...

01:31:58.000 You know, you can...

01:31:59.000 It's like the Dalai Lama or something, right?

01:32:01.000 You can just sense this awareness of him just being on another plane.

01:32:05.000 He is not...

01:32:14.000 Mm-hmm.

01:32:22.000 Well, I think yoga can take you there if you do the right kind of yoga.

01:32:26.000 I do like a hot yoga, like a Bikrams type hot yoga, and it's great for the body.

01:32:30.000 And it's great for relaxation.

01:32:32.000 Like to me, when I do a lot of yoga, I always talk about I got in a car accident and somebody rear-ended my expensive German sports car.

01:32:41.000 You know, I asked the guy, are you okay?

01:32:43.000 Everything okay?

01:32:43.000 And I wasn't even mad at him.

01:32:44.000 You know, I should have been probably upset that this guy wasn't paying attention or texting or whatever the fuck it was and slammed into my car and cost me a shitload of money. 0.93

01:32:51.000 But I wasn't. 0.92

01:32:53.000 And I attribute it to doing a lot of yoga that week.

01:32:56.000 I think it calms you down.

01:32:57.000 I think it...

01:32:57.000 There's something...

01:32:58.000 I mean, there's a reason why those skinny Indian dudes have been doing that shit for thousands of years. 1.00

01:33:02.000 I don't think they've just been... 0.99

01:33:03.000 It's just like a hobby.

01:33:04.000 No.

01:33:05.000 And they just stuck with it.

01:33:06.000 But Kundalini yoga, which I don't practice, but I have friends that do...

01:33:10.000 I have a friend who teaches it in Boulder, and she's a firm advocate of achieving psychedelic states through this practice.

01:33:19.000 You get up at four o'clock in the morning, and you do these breathing exercises, and you want to sit in a certain direction.

01:33:26.000 It's all very ritualistic, but it's also based on the idea of the circadian cycle.

01:33:31.000 You sort of interrupt your sleep cycle and the cycle of the earth, and you do these Stimulation exercises that supposedly activate your pineal gland, which is the gland that's been proven to produce dimethyltryptamine, which is the most potent psychedelic drug known to man.

01:33:48.000 And it's related in many ways to psychedelic mushrooms.

01:33:52.000 They're very similar in their chemical composition.

01:33:54.000 And we know that these psychedelic drugs that the brain produces, if you can take them, And you extract them from plants, and they exist in thousands of plants.

01:34:06.000 You have these insanely profound visionary experiences.

01:34:10.000 She says that you can achieve these states through meditation and through kundalini yoga.

01:34:15.000 I don't doubt that.

01:34:16.000 I don't doubt it either.

01:34:17.000 I mean, you know, Gadara, he meditates two or three hours a day.

01:34:20.000 That would probably explain why he is the type of person that he is.

01:34:24.000 And you get into weird places when you do that.

01:34:27.000 Well, I do a lot of meditation in an isolation tank.

01:34:30.000 I have an isolation tank in my basement.

01:34:32.000 I've been so wanting to do that.

01:34:33.000 Dude, I can hook it up.

01:34:34.000 You tell me when.

01:34:35.000 You tell me when.

01:34:35.000 I'll hook it up.

01:34:36.000 Well, I'm not here.

01:34:37.000 I am in New York.

01:34:38.000 I am so connected to this community, the tank community. 0.77

01:34:41.000 Oh, really?

01:34:41.000 Will you put me in touch with someone in New York City?

01:34:43.000 There must be good outfits in New York.

01:34:44.000 I'm putting out the word right now, and we will get messages on Twitter.

01:34:47.000 I guarantee you there's places in New York...

01:34:49.000 When I started talking about this about 10 years ago, a little bit more, maybe like 2002, there were very few of these.

01:34:55.000 Now they're all over the country.

01:34:57.000 And a lot of it is me making videos and talking about it.

01:35:00.000 I've had one in my basement.

01:35:01.000 When I first started talking about it, the float lab, where I got mine from, which is in Venice, which is the finest float...

01:35:15.000 There's new locations all over the country, all over the world.

01:35:20.000 In fact, a lot of them they have as their option, like how did you learn about this?

01:35:23.000 Joe Rogan is like one of the options.

01:35:25.000 Because I talk about it so much.

01:35:27.000 That's great.

01:35:27.000 I just think it should be something that everybody should do.

01:35:30.000 I think it's an amazing form of meditation.

01:35:33.000 It's amazing relaxation for your body.

01:35:36.000 It's an incredible way for your body to get magnesium because it absorbs it through the skin, the Epsom salts.

01:35:42.000 It's one of the best ways that your body can absorb magnesium and it's hugely important for muscle recovery and for your health and wellness.

01:35:51.000 Relaxation.

01:35:51.000 It's an incredible experience.

01:35:52.000 I can't wait.

01:35:53.000 All right, you heard it here.

01:35:54.000 If you are a float tank person in New York...

01:35:57.000 We're going to hook it up, 100%.

01:35:58.000 I'm going to put out the word.

01:35:59.000 We'll put it out on Twitter.

01:36:01.000 Bam! 0.98

01:36:01.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:36:02.000 Oh, that's my tank?

01:36:03.000 Yeah, that's the tank video that we made.

01:36:05.000 Yeah, they use you.

01:36:06.000 Yeah, they use me.

01:36:07.000 Yeah.

01:36:07.000 Oh, there we go.

01:36:08.000 That's perfect.

01:36:09.000 I don't even know these people.

01:36:10.000 That's New York?

01:36:11.000 Okay, there you go.

01:36:12.000 Great.

01:36:12.000 Okay, so newyorkaspire.com flotation.

01:36:16.000 Hey, how about you reach out to my buddy Josh Zeps and hook him up?

01:36:20.000 Alright, if you're listening, reach out to me.

01:36:22.000 Send an email to info at wtplive.com and my producer will pass it on.

01:36:26.000 Stalkers are going to say, yeah, this is the place.

01:36:28.000 They're going to give you the address.

01:36:29.000 Fortunately, I have a producer who will go through that.

01:36:32.000 It's going to be plastic all over the floor. 0.99

01:36:33.000 Going to go to some fucking Dexter house. 0.97

01:36:35.000 When we were talking about the size of the cosmos and how mind-blowing all of that is, it reminded me, did you see about this Russian billionaire who has just invested $100 million in the search for aliens? 0.99

01:36:48.000 Not to talk, to listen.

01:36:50.000 To listen in.

01:36:51.000 He just needs mushrooms.

01:36:53.000 You can meet aliens in an hour.

01:36:55.000 An hour and 20 minutes, you could be there.

01:36:58.000 So he's got, like, Stephen Hawking and all these amazing people on board.

01:37:02.000 It's the biggest injection of cash into the search for extraterrestrial intelligence in history.

01:37:07.000 I think a guy like Hawking is just like, okay, look, if you want to throw some money, it's science.

01:37:11.000 I mean, that's really what it is.

01:37:12.000 Yeah, sure.

01:37:13.000 I mean, it's just science.

01:37:13.000 I mean, you want innovation.

01:37:15.000 I mean, it's great.

01:37:16.000 It's a great thing.

01:37:17.000 I personally think that there's two very distinct possibilities.

01:37:22.000 I mean, there's many, but there's two that I consider all the time.

01:37:25.000 One of them is that this is it.

01:37:26.000 That what we have achieved is exceedingly rare, incredibly rare, and that if the universe is 13.7 billion years old or whatever the fuck it is when it started then, it's entirely possible that it took this long for something to come out of it like us.

01:37:41.000 And that we are...

01:37:43.000 At the front of the line of the idea of conscious life.

01:37:47.000 We're the only thing that we know of on this whole planet that's not just conscious, but conscious and manipulates its environment to the point where we can change the weather, we can do all kinds of crazy shit like send videos all to Australia instantaneously.

01:37:59.000 I mean, if you're in Australia and I'm here, you can send me a text message with a photograph of you smiling, and I'll get it in a couple of seconds.

01:38:05.000 Oh, we could be having the same conversation we're having right now.

01:38:08.000 Yeah, through Skype.

01:38:09.000 Really, really clearly.

01:38:10.000 And that's just madness.

01:38:12.000 That's madness.

01:38:13.000 I think it is entirely possible that we are as advanced as intelligent life has ever gotten ever in the entire universe.

01:38:20.000 And that all of our searching and longing is really just some alpha chimpanzee thing where we're always looking for the daddy.

01:38:27.000 You know, it might be a god or it might be a king or it might be a guru or something.

01:38:32.000 We're always looking for someone to show us the way because we know we don't know the way.

01:38:35.000 It's possible.

01:38:36.000 It's entirely possible that that's the case.

01:38:39.000 And you're right that life got started here pretty much as quickly as it could, and it evolved into our sort of level of consciousness as quickly as you would expect it to, given natural selection.

01:38:52.000 So it's true that we could be at the beginning.

01:38:53.000 You know, we could be sort of the...

01:38:57.000 Yeah.

01:39:07.000 That it's woven into the kind of fabric of the cosmos.

01:39:10.000 Because if it was a really, really, really, really, really rare thing, then you would have expected the Earth to be a dead, gaseous ball for, you know, billions of years, many, many more billions of years than it was.

01:39:21.000 So I'm not convinced by that.

01:39:23.000 And I think also you might be underestimating just how mind-bogglingly huge the cosmos is and how little access to it we have.

01:39:31.000 Like, the fact that we haven't found anything yet doesn't mean anything.

01:39:34.000 Doesn't mean anything.

01:39:35.000 I mean, there are 100 billion stars just in our galaxy.

01:39:39.000 So there are 100 billion suns just in our galaxy, and there are billions of galaxies in the universe.

01:39:46.000 Every single star that we see in the night sky is inside our galaxy.

01:39:49.000 And, of course, that's only a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of our little corner of that galaxy.

01:39:54.000 And then beyond that galaxy, there are innumerable other galaxies.

01:39:58.000 Like, the idea that we are...

01:40:00.000 As Carl Sagan said, you know, the great scientist, like, if we're the only...

01:40:04.000 Intelligent life in the cosmos, that is an awfully large backdrop.

01:40:08.000 Like, why is it all there?

01:40:10.000 No one's saying that we're the only.

01:40:12.000 There also is the theory that the universe is so incredibly large that not only is there an exact replica of Earth out there, but infinity, which is what the universe is supposed to be infinite, is that not only is there an exact version of Earth There's everything that has happened on this planet in the exact same order up to Me touching that microphone right there has happened exactly down to the nanosecond an infinite number of times throughout

01:40:43.000 space Like that's how big the universe is, but it doesn't mean that someone's ahead of us.

01:40:49.000 It doesn't mean that It doesn't mean that.

01:40:50.000 But it does mean that intelligent life is very likely scattered throughout the entire cosmos.

01:40:56.000 But it doesn't necessarily mean that intelligent life has reached a place past where we are right now.

01:41:03.000 It doesn't necessarily mean that, but if...

01:41:06.000 But I think that you would be well advised to believe that it probably has just because the median is usually a better assumption than the extremes, right?

01:41:14.000 So, I mean, the likelihood is that we're not at either of the very, very extremes, that we're neither the very first nor the very last civilization.

01:41:21.000 Just statistically, if you were just tossing a coin, you would expect our civilization to just happen to be clustered somewhere on a bell curve in roughly the middle.

01:41:29.000 That's just a less anomalous statistical thing to have happened.

01:41:33.000 Yeah.

01:41:33.000 Yeah, most certainly.

01:41:34.000 I mean, I'm definitely not decided on it.

01:41:37.000 I think it's just a possibility.

01:41:38.000 It's a possibility that this is it.

01:41:40.000 That this is about as smart as anything has ever gotten ever in the entire existence of the universe.

01:41:44.000 That'd be depressing, isn't it?

01:41:45.000 That's depressing.

01:41:46.000 Or not. 0.92

01:41:47.000 Or pretty fucking cool. 0.88

01:41:48.000 Like, we're the ballers of the universe. 0.96

01:41:49.000 Yeah, maybe.

01:41:50.000 So, this system that they're going to put up with this Russian billionaire's money, I was looking at exactly what it's going to be able to do.

01:41:57.000 So, astronomers are going to be able to examine 1,000 star systems for any sign of radars being used, because apparently radar is a good way of telling that someone is there, because they've invented it.

01:42:09.000 And it's going to be able to detect a laser with the output of an ordinary 100-watt light bulb, From 23,000 billion miles away.

01:42:18.000 Wow.

01:42:19.000 That's the distance of the nearest stars.

01:42:21.000 23 trillion miles away, they'll be able to spot a laser with the wattage of an ordinary household bulb.

01:42:29.000 What I was going to say about the other possibility is the other possibility is what I believe we're heading towards right now.

01:42:35.000 Is that we're heading towards a virtual universe and that we're creating something with the possibility of artificial intelligence and the possibility of living inside of some Artificial reality that they've created that your brain interfaces with that there's gonna be no need for traveling anywhere or no need even for the type of Carbon-based life civilization that we currently enjoy and that it won't exist anymore and then we're gonna create artificial life and And that the artificial life is the next stage of evolution.

01:43:03.000 And what we are is like some sort of a cosmic caterpillar that's going to become a butterfly.

01:43:08.000 And that's one of the reasons why we're so obsessed with, you know, shiny brand new laptops and innovation and beautiful materialistic items is that that is the mechanism and the fuel behind creating those things.

01:43:20.000 Our obsession with these newer, better, greater things is fueling the creation of these newer, better, greater things.

01:43:27.000 And they're ultimately going to lead to artificial intelligence.

01:43:30.000 Yep.

01:43:30.000 And that's what Elon Musk is terrified of.

01:43:32.000 I was just about to say, look at what Elon Musk and also Stephen Hawking are saying about it.

01:43:36.000 And, you know, Sam Harris, who I know is a friend of yours, and I'm a huge fan of Sam's, and I've spoken to him on HuffPost Live about this, the idea that we are...

01:43:46.000 Really not understanding the potential of creating artificially intelligent systems that self-improve in a way that they end up getting sort of exponentially more self-aware until they're actually outsmarting us and they have, in every meaningful sense, a sense of their own existence in the same way that biological intelligence does.

01:44:06.000 That is going to be a game changer, the likes of which, as you say, I mean, maybe biology just...

01:44:13.000 It's extinguished, or maybe we end up, I don't know, it's like, I'm kind of agnostic on the question of whether or not we could ever upload our consciousness into a silicon-based form. 0.55

01:44:25.000 I'm too dumb for that. 0.94

01:44:26.000 I'm too dumb to make that argument. 1.00

01:44:29.000 The Ray Kurzweil kind of singularity thing. 0.97

01:44:32.000 I had a chance to talk to him for a long...

01:44:34.000 I did an interview with him for SyFy.

01:44:37.000 I sat down with him, just me and him, chatting about this for about an hour and a half.

01:44:40.000 At the end of it, I was fairly convinced that it's inevitable.

01:44:45.000 Fairly convinced that...

01:44:46.000 It's like, if you look at, like...

01:44:48.000 The invention of the wheel, and then you look at the Cadillac that we just showed today, or for Elon Musk's sake, the Tesla, this new insane Tesla that he has.

01:44:59.000 It's all electric.

01:45:00.000 It goes zero to 60 in less than three seconds.

01:45:02.000 Yes. 0.97

01:45:03.000 Fucking insane, these things that we've created. 0.98

01:45:05.000 And these are just the beginning. 0.98

01:45:06.000 We're not going to stop there.

01:45:07.000 We're not going to go, yeah, I think zero to 60 in three seconds, that's good.

01:45:11.000 Let's stop right there.

01:45:12.000 We're not going to stop, but isn't there a...

01:45:14.000 He's making a philosophical case as well, and this is why I say I'm agnostic about it, because...

01:45:21.000 I mean, I did philosophy at university, and one of the big thorny questions in philosophy of mind is whether or not it's necessary to have the biological substructure of a brain in order to have a mind.

01:45:35.000 Could you disentangle those two things?

01:45:37.000 Could the experience of me feeling like myself and feeling like I'm alive be disentangled from the biological reality of my physiology and the grey stuff in between my ears?

01:45:49.000 Kurzweil's...

01:45:50.000 Assumption, which he's basically just taking on faith, is yes, you could disentangle that.

01:45:55.000 If you could replicate all of the data that's whirring around in my head right now, as I'm saying these words, as I'm sitting here talking to you, if you could take all of the things that are going on, all those electrical impulses, all of those neurons, all of those synapses, and you could replicate that in a computer, then that computer would be me.

01:46:10.000 And it would not just seem like me, it would feel like me.

01:46:14.000 Like I would be...

01:46:16.000 I could actually be uploaded to a computer and you could kill my body, and I would be existing in some really meaningful sense.

01:46:23.000 I would be immortal.

01:46:24.000 I think we're entirely too attached to the idea of me, or of us.

01:46:29.000 I think we're entirely too attached to the idea of this even being a good structure.

01:46:34.000 I think we are so entangled with our chimpanzee DNA. We're so entangled with our monkey needs that we think that these ha... 1.00

01:46:44.000 I would want to be downloaded into a computer, and that computer would be me, and I would share all my hopes and fears and dreams. 0.99

01:46:50.000 Why the fuck would you want those? 0.97

01:46:52.000 Are we going to have, like, YouTube haters that are in our artificial world that we created? 0.99

01:46:56.000 Are we going to recreate them in the exact same way?

01:46:59.000 Oh, God.

01:46:59.000 Imagine the trolls when you're actually inside the computer.

01:47:02.000 You're inside the matrix.

01:47:04.000 That's what I'm saying.

01:47:05.000 Like, haters and jealousy and anger and misplaced fear and homophobia and the hatred of, you know, xenophobia.

01:47:16.000 All these different bizarre...

01:47:20.000 Angry things that we have that make up a human being all these nationalism all these different strange things that we've sort of just become Inexorably attached to in our cultures that we're trying to eradicate But we never seem to quite do all of those things are a part of the monkey body,

01:47:36.000 right?

01:47:37.000 But that monkey body is what we're trying to save we're trying to save that and download it into consciousness what if we can Purify consciousness and remove it from emotion, remove it from biological need, and even sex.

01:47:49.000 You know, one of the things that freaks me out about aliens, not that I believe in aliens, but the iconic image of the alien is always sexless.

01:47:57.000 They're smooth. 0.99

01:47:58.000 They have smooth genitals. 0.99

01:48:00.000 They have no muscle. 0.98

01:48:01.000 They're totally undefined.

01:48:03.000 You can't tell what's a male or a female, and they have these enormous heads. 1.00

01:48:06.000 Is it possible that we have this iconic image because we kind of know and understand that ultimately the only way we're going to transcend this monkey body is to move past all the needs that we've sort of automatically associated with being alive.

01:48:25.000 Being alive means, you know, you have to, I gotta find food.

01:48:27.000 I gotta be a prepper.

01:48:28.000 I gotta make sure that I have canned foods and water.

01:48:31.000 What if it goes down?

01:48:33.000 It's all stay alive stuff.

01:48:34.000 It's all alive.

01:48:36.000 It's all about the monkey body.

01:48:38.000 And that's why people want to be sexy. 1.00

01:48:40.000 I gotta get my lips done.

01:48:41.000 They're too skinny. 1.00

01:48:41.000 Nobody wants a fuck. 1.00

01:48:42.000 You know, all that crazy shit that people have in their brain, a lot of it is monkey body leftover stuff. 1.00

01:48:49.000 Well, I think that's an interesting theory about why the model of the cliched alien is like that. 0.99

01:48:55.000 In other words, a less advanced conception of humans is hairier.

01:49:02.000 Racism also plays into this, right?

01:49:04.000 Darker skinned. 0.83

01:49:05.000 Mm-hmm.

01:49:28.000 We're good to go.

01:49:48.000 He's always ripped, and he's always wearing a robe because he's modest.

01:49:51.000 He's reaching over and touching people with fingers.

01:49:54.000 He's got giant traps.

01:49:55.000 He looks great.

01:49:56.000 Yeah, it's true.

01:49:57.000 God looks awesome.

01:49:57.000 So does his son.

01:49:58.000 His son's looking great.

01:50:00.000 On the cross, beaten to death, and he's got abs.

01:50:04.000 And really white for a guy who was living in the Middle East 2,000 years ago.

01:50:08.000 Skin of bronze, hair of wool.

01:50:11.000 Yeah, sure. 1.00

01:50:12.000 Bullshit. 1.00

01:50:12.000 The other possibility... 1.00

01:50:14.000 Fear of a black planet.

01:50:15.000 Chuck D was right.

01:50:16.000 There you go.

01:50:17.000 Look at that.

01:50:17.000 Look at God.

01:50:18.000 Beautiful.

01:50:19.000 The dude on the left got robbed.

01:50:22.000 That's what I'm saying.

01:50:23.000 It's just not even...

01:50:23.000 I mean, why even draw it?

01:50:25.000 You might as well just make him an alien with no genitals. 1.00

01:50:27.000 People back then just had littler dicks. 1.00

01:50:29.000 Is that possible? 0.99

01:50:30.000 It's possible, but I've always just assumed that it's the modesty of the artist.

01:50:35.000 It would kind of change the frame of the picture of God reaching down and touching man if man had a massive schlong just hanging down his leg.

01:50:44.000 Yeah, it would be distracting if you're just a giant John Holmes hog.

01:50:47.000 But look how big the muscles are in these guys. 0.98

01:50:50.000 Like, these guys have to be fucking cross-fitting all day as well as being divine. 0.99

01:50:55.000 I mean, that guy on the left is doing a lot of fucking weightlifting. 0.99

01:50:59.000 That is not a regular body. 0.99

01:51:01.000 That's a body of someone who's picking up heavy shit all day long. 0.99

01:51:04.000 But he's got a skinny neck. 1.00

01:51:05.000 I bet he's never been choked.

01:51:06.000 Maybe he's...

01:51:08.000 That's not a guy who knows how to get out of a choke.

01:51:11.000 No. 1.00

01:51:11.000 Little dick, skinny neck, but giant fucking biceps. 1.00

01:51:15.000 Look at his forearms. 1.00

01:51:16.000 Yeah, he does a lot of, there's a lot of weightlifting.

01:51:18.000 For sure.

01:51:19.000 Michelangelo's ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.

01:51:21.000 And look at the bizarre image of God being supported by cherubs.

01:51:25.000 Mm-hmm.

01:51:25.000 That's how weird people are.

01:51:27.000 Religion is just a lot. 1.00

01:51:28.000 Can't see God's dick, though. 1.00

01:51:29.000 Notice that? 1.00

01:51:29.000 Nope. 1.00

01:51:30.000 He's got a robe on, that other dummy. 0.73

01:51:32.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:51:32.000 Showing his little tiny dick. 1.00

01:51:34.000 God looks kind of, I haven't really noticed this before, but God on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel looks a bit like Meryl Streep. 1.00

01:51:45.000 Like, Meryl Streep with a beard, because I think he's kind of got breasts, and he's wearing like a nice white robe. 0.99

01:51:52.000 He looks like an old American actor, and I can't remember his fucking name. 0.99

01:51:56.000 But that's... 0.99

01:51:57.000 Charlton Heston?

01:51:58.000 A little, maybe?

01:51:59.000 Maybe?

01:52:00.000 Anyway.

01:52:01.000 Anyway.

01:52:01.000 On the, uh...

01:52:02.000 Just getting back to...

01:52:03.000 Look at that one girl, though. 1.00

01:52:04.000 Hold on, go back to that picture.

01:52:05.000 Look at the one that's in the crook of his elbow. 1.00

01:52:07.000 She looks like a fucking hater. 1.00

01:52:08.000 She's a hater. 1.00

01:52:10.000 She doesn't like that dude.

01:52:11.000 No.

01:52:11.000 That dude's getting all the love.

01:52:12.000 She's like, fuck, that dude ain't shit. 1.00

01:52:14.000 Look at his little dick. 1.00

01:52:15.000 Look at her face. 1.00

01:52:16.000 Exactly.

01:52:16.000 She's like, she's not filled with love.

01:52:18.000 She's like, pfft, whatever.

01:52:22.000 On that question of the evolution of humans creating maybe computers and artificial intelligence are the next stage and maybe the universe is full of artificial intelligence that isn't sending out the signals that we're looking for when we're looking for biological intelligence.

01:52:40.000 Maybe they don't need radars anymore.

01:52:41.000 They don't need to be losing lasers because they're all in computers.

01:52:45.000 The other possibility, which is similar to that and which is very depressing and which I don't particularly like, is that once a species becomes capable of destroying itself, that they usually do.

01:52:58.000 You can't get beyond...

01:53:00.000 You're not responsible enough to be able to handle the kind of industrial-scale destructive capacity that we now have with nuclear weapons and with...

01:53:09.000 Coal-fired power plants and with all of our ability, we're so successful as a species that we're successful enough to destroy ourselves, but not yet wise enough not to do so.

01:53:20.000 And that maybe that's a trap that lots of species fall into as they try to pass through the crucible of going from being ordinary animals to hyper-intelligent animals.

01:53:31.000 Self-aware animals, but then on the way they invent tools that they aren't yet mature enough to be able to handle properly and they end up wiping themselves out.

01:53:39.000 Well, it's certainly possible, and if we look at the universe as being infinite, infinite possibilities exist as well.

01:53:46.000 So probably all the pitfalls, like all the things that we avoided, like the Cuban Missile Crisis, maybe they didn't avoid, and maybe they were wiped out, and maybe they did toxify their atmosphere to the point where they didn't recover for hundreds of thousands of years, and mutants and freaks barely made it by, 0.93

01:54:02.000 you know, running from hybrid wolves that have fucking glowing red eyes. 0.53

01:54:06.000 Who knows what has been done? 0.99

01:54:08.000 Right.

01:54:08.000 So what kind of genetic engineering has been done on these planets?

01:54:11.000 It's been run amok and fucked everything up.

01:54:13.000 What version of the movie are we in? 0.99

01:54:14.000 What version of what we've done in Australia with foxes and rabbits is out of control nature experiments that have really gone all fucked up. 0.85

01:54:25.000 Wolves in Idaho that are out of control.

01:54:27.000 How much of that has been done in these other places as well as genetically modifying things to the point where it doesn't work anymore?

01:54:34.000 And that's also possible.

01:54:36.000 Absolutely.

01:54:37.000 And what's sort of staggering to me is getting an insight into how recently we have invented all of this stuff and changed the world like this.

01:54:45.000 Like, I was in Athens during the Greek financial crisis just in the week after they had the big no vote.

01:54:52.000 It was the week when it really looked like Greece was going to crash out of the Eurozone, about, what, four or five weeks ago?

01:54:58.000 And I went to the Acropolis and, like, to the Parthenon, because, you know, that's what you do.

01:55:02.000 And I was standing there in the museum, like, looking at all this stuff, and I was struck not so much by how incredibly ancient it is.

01:55:10.000 Like, this is the birthplace of civilization, right?

01:55:12.000 I mean, this is where it all began.

01:55:14.000 This is the birthplace of Western civilization, basically.

01:55:17.000 But I was amazed at how actually comparatively recent that is.

01:55:20.000 Like, I was saying earlier that my grandmother just died.

01:55:22.000 She was 100. I can conceive of her lifetime, right?

01:55:25.000 I knew her.

01:55:27.000 Like, that's a long lifetime, but it's not inconceivably long as a period of time.

01:55:32.000 She was born before the Roaring Twenties.

01:55:34.000 Think of that.

01:55:34.000 Yeah.

01:55:35.000 She was born in 1915. She was born during the Gallipoli Campaign in the First World War.

01:55:40.000 Wow.

01:55:41.000 But, so, anyway, that's a span of time that I can wrap my head around.

01:55:44.000 You have 30 or 40 of those...

01:55:47.000 And you're back at the Acropolis, right?

01:55:49.000 Amazing.

01:55:49.000 You're back at the birthplace of Western Civilization.

01:55:51.000 That is not a number that's like the hundred billion stars in the galaxy that I can't even begin to wrap my head around.

01:55:57.000 It's not a number like the billions of years that the Earth is old that I can't wrap my head around.

01:56:02.000 That's a very measurable, understandable thing.

01:56:05.000 The birth of Western Civilization is just 30 or 40 of my grandmothers long.

01:56:10.000 And then think about the fact that when she was born there were no nuclear weapons, there was no nuclear power.

01:56:14.000 We hadn't discovered any of that stuff.

01:56:16.000 Right?

01:56:16.000 This is so recent.

01:56:18.000 We have the privilege of being the generation, the couple of generations, that are witnessing the dawn of the beginning of something extraordinarily new.

01:56:29.000 A, the capacity to destroy ourselves, using nukes and environmental degradation, and B, the rise of artificial intelligence and computing and globalization.

01:56:39.000 You look at that, the Acropolis and the Parthenon.

01:56:42.000 What's crazy, the Acropolis is the building, right?

01:56:44.000 The Parthenon is what it's built on.

01:56:46.000 The Acropolis is the whole thing, I think, and I think the Parthenon is the building.

01:56:50.000 Am I getting that back to front?

01:56:51.000 I'm not sure.

01:56:51.000 But the bottom line is, when you talk to Greek scholars and they talk about the construction of the building on top, it was built on something that was even more ancient.

01:57:02.000 They don't exactly know who built. 0.98

01:57:04.000 They don't exactly know who built the platform that fucker was put on. 0.99

01:57:08.000 And then you go back to crazy things like Baalbek in Lebanon, where they have these enormous stone things that... 0.99

01:57:15.000 Thousands and thousands and thousands of tons, and they're like, who the fuck built? 0.95

01:57:19.000 How'd they build these? 0.98

01:57:20.000 What'd they do with these? 0.99

01:57:20.000 Where'd these things fucking come from? 0.99

01:57:21.000 And they really don't know. 0.99

01:57:23.000 And that brings up the possibility that we haven't had a linear progression from Ape Man to this, but we've had these ups and downs, and we've been partially wiped out.

01:57:34.000 There's a series of supervolcanoes all over the world, and one big one being in Yellowstone that everyone's terrified of, but there's one of them, I believe, in Indonesia, that there's a certain theory that links to a massive eruption of this supervolcano 70,000 years ago that is the reason why we all share this so little genetic diversity.

01:57:58.000 And they believe that we might have been down to a few thousand people somewhere around 70,000 years ago.

01:58:05.000 We were down to...

01:58:06.000 I mean, scientists, evolutionary biologists can tell that we were down to...

01:58:10.000 I don't know if it's as low as that.

01:58:11.000 But certainly, I mean, it was tens of thousands of people.

01:58:15.000 And I don't know when that was, but I remember you mentioned that supervolcano last time I was on this show.

01:58:19.000 And then I went and Googled it, and it was like, eh, probably didn't happen.

01:58:24.000 Like, most of the expert sites that I went and looked at was like, this is kind of one of those sort of conspiracy theory things that we don't actually think happened.

01:58:32.000 But whether or not it was that particular Indonesian supervolcano or not, we do know that there have been periods where humankind has almost gone extinct, and we've just gotten through that log ahead. 0.77

01:58:46.000 We're good to go.

01:58:59.000 And we're due.

01:59:01.000 Every six to eight hundred thousand years, Yellowstone blows, and it is a continent killer.

01:59:06.000 It will fuck up everything in the continent and cause some sort of a nuclear winter effect to a vast majority of the world, except maybe like Australia.

01:59:12.000 I'm glad I've got an Australian passport, I was going to say. 0.99

01:59:15.000 You might have to fucking escape back to the homeland. 1.00

01:59:16.000 Move to New Zealand, go and kill some foxes. 1.00

01:59:18.000 That might be the spot. 1.00

01:59:19.000 That might be the spot.

01:59:20.000 Because there's a real...

01:59:21.000 But then you have to like...

01:59:22.000 We're good to go.

01:59:52.000 Wow, that's cool.

01:59:53.000 You ever thought about getting those crazy face tattoos?

01:59:55.000 I have a tattoo on my back, which is a Maori symbol.

01:59:59.000 So Taupo is an old extinct volcano.

02:00:04.000 When it blew, there were writings of people in Italy talking about how the sky is red at sunset.

02:00:11.000 And that's because of the ash from a volcano on the opposite side of the world.

02:00:15.000 And there's currently a crater that is so big.

02:00:18.000 It's like it's a lake that you can...

02:00:20.000 It's a huge lake.

02:00:22.000 Huge lake.

02:00:22.000 And that whole thing was just a stream of lava just exploding.

02:00:28.000 You stand on the side of the lake and you're like, I can't even imagine what kind of Armageddon that must have been back when it was active.

02:00:36.000 Well, our stability, the stability that we've enjoyed over the past several thousand years that people have written about, I mean, other than, what was the one that happened in Rome?

02:00:47.000 Or what was the one?

02:00:49.000 Was it?

02:00:49.000 Vesuvius.

02:00:50.000 Pompeii.

02:00:51.000 Pompeii.

02:00:51.000 Yeah, the Pompeii one, which was fairly famous because we've actually found people that were...

02:00:56.000 Yeah.

02:00:56.000 Killed and we could see their bodies and there's an exhibit somewhere where they have the bodies of the people from Pompeii, the preserved ones, on display somewhere.

02:01:06.000 It's supposed to be really freaky.

02:01:08.000 But that was a minor one in comparison to Yellowstone. 0.97

02:01:13.000 They didn't even, there it is, those are the people that were fucking frozen in time and cooked and killed by this. 0.99

02:01:19.000 It's just insane. 0.98

02:01:20.000 Those are actual real human beings.

02:01:22.000 It looks like some claymation animated thing.

02:01:25.000 It's incredible.

02:01:27.000 But what they believe is that...

02:01:30.000 Well, they didn't even know.

02:01:31.000 Here's another thing.

02:01:32.000 They didn't even know about Yellowstone until they started looking at it from satellites.

02:01:36.000 They had no idea it was a caldera volcano.

02:01:39.000 They knew that there was some sort of...

02:01:42.000 Thermal activity because of Old Faithful.

02:01:44.000 They knew there was some lava going on under there.

02:01:47.000 But they didn't know how big the thing was until they started looking at it with satellite imagery.

02:01:52.000 And then they realized, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

02:01:54.000 This thing is like 600 kilometers wide.

02:01:58.000 And what it is, is a mountain.

02:02:01.000 That explodes and leaves this crater, and that's what a caldera is.

02:02:06.000 It reaches this explosion, and the whole mountain, like a 300 mile wide mountain, shoots lava up into the sky and just kills everything.

02:02:17.000 Everything, anywhere on the West Coast, all this is dead.

02:02:20.000 Isn't it funny how we have a kind of...

02:02:22.000 There's a sort of cognitive dissonance.

02:02:23.000 It comes back to what we were talking about, about the doors of perception and how our brains are forced by evolution to keep us in a very narrow mindset where we don't think about the reality of what's going on around us and how vast everything is and so on.

02:02:36.000 Because I think sometimes about my friends who live in San Francisco.

02:02:41.000 San Francisco is going to be devastated by a massive earthquake.

02:02:45.000 It's just going to happen.

02:02:46.000 How about Los Angeles?

02:02:46.000 It's only a question of when.

02:02:47.000 This too.

02:02:48.000 Yeah, LA. I mean, yes, at some point.

02:02:50.000 You don't mind it.

02:02:50.000 You don't mind if San Francisco goes.

02:02:52.000 Look at you.

02:02:53.000 I mean, if LA goes.

02:02:54.000 You're like, San Francisco goes, this is going to be awful.

02:02:56.000 But yeah, LA's going to go too.

02:02:57.000 LA is big. 1.00

02:02:59.000 LA sucks. 1.00

02:03:00.000 No, LA's great. 1.00

02:03:00.000 You know what he's saying. 1.00

02:03:01.000 That's what he's saying.

02:03:04.000 San Francisco is more likely to be more devastated.

02:03:08.000 More likeable.

02:03:09.000 More likeable.

02:03:10.000 They make more tech stuff.

02:03:11.000 I feel like I'm having words put in my mouth here, Joe.

02:03:12.000 I don't know.

02:03:14.000 Am I paranoid?

02:03:15.000 Am I just being paranoid?

02:03:16.000 Or are you...

02:03:18.000 Well, how about the story that was written in New York?

02:03:21.000 That's what I felt like you were saying.

02:03:23.000 But, you know, we know this is going to happen, and we all go about our daily lives, and we don't pay any attention to it, because we couldn't, because we would be paralyzed if we kept thinking, is it going to be today?

02:03:32.000 Is it going to be today?

02:03:33.000 Then we'd just be, I mean, that's OCD, right?

02:03:35.000 So we're forced to go through life not actually reckoning with the fact that that's going to happen, and Yellowstone's going to happen, and all kinds of stuff's going to go down, and there's not a thing we can do about it.

02:03:47.000 Then there's asteroids.

02:03:50.000 Asteroidal impacts are the big one.

02:03:52.000 All the evidence they're finding now about all the different impact craters that they have ignored or not been aware of until recently.

02:04:00.000 The discovery of what they call, I think it's called tritonite.

02:04:03.000 It's nuclear glass that exists on nuclear test sites and also meteor impacts.

02:04:11.000 That they've founded all throughout Asia and all throughout parts of Europe from 12,000 years ago.

02:04:16.000 And they think that that coincided with the end of the Ice Age.

02:04:19.000 The end of the Ice Age might have been instigated by massive asteroids and impacts all over the world, like 12,000 years ago.

02:04:30.000 Amazing.

02:04:30.000 That might have been why there is this this really old structures that are sort of unexplained and the sort of resurgence of civilization Somewhere around the 10,000 year mark that we have this big downfall people start figuring things out again Just like if you go back 2,000 years from now,

02:04:46.000 you know, you're talking about Greece You're talking about ancient Rome and then 2,000 years later you have New York City, right?

02:04:53.000 Well 2,000 years after this meteor Meteor...

02:04:56.000 I've seen terrible words I'm using.

02:04:58.000 Meteorological.

02:04:59.000 I'm trying to say like a weather reporter.

02:05:01.000 It's alright, you're jet lagged and you've been on a long flight.

02:05:03.000 Asteroidal, yes.

02:05:04.000 Asteroidal, and I'm drinking now.

02:05:05.000 And you've had a half beer.

02:05:06.000 That's all I need. 0.99

02:05:07.000 What is this fucking Nuevo? 0.99

02:05:09.000 It's nice. 0.99

02:05:10.000 New Mexican beer.

02:05:11.000 Yeah, it's good.

02:05:12.000 They think that it's very possible that civilization has experienced many of these...

02:05:17.000 That's what Graham Hancock has based a tremendous amount of his work on.

02:05:20.000 I don't know if you're aware of him, but...

02:05:22.000 He's a good friend, and he wrote a book called Fingerprints of the Gods that's based on exactly that, all this evidence that shows that civilization has experienced these peaks and valleys, and that things have happened, that there have been some resets, and it hasn't been as simple as people figured out fire,

02:05:40.000 then they figured out the wheel, and here we are today in New York City.

02:05:44.000 I don't know if I mentioned it last time I was on the podcast or not, but there's an amazing kind of study and there's an amazing article about this sort of research, which is if society collapses and we still have nuclear waste in the ground,

02:06:00.000 How do we mark our nuclear waste sites such that a future civilization who is completely different from us, doesn't speak our language, has no more records of anything that went on, so that they don't go and hurt themselves by digging it up.

02:06:13.000 And so there are semioticians and all these people who study the nature of symbols and of conscious interpretation of the ways that we communicate and everything.

02:06:23.000 Who have got these crazy ideas like putting up these big kind of structures that look like big scary angled poles that get deeper and deeper and thicker and thicker as you get towards the site of where the nuclear waste is being stored to try to indicate to future intelligent civilizations not to go in there.

02:06:42.000 But then the conclusion that they always reach is...

02:06:45.000 They're just going to think, I mean, they're going to be interested in it.

02:06:47.000 They're going to want to explore it, right?

02:06:48.000 It's like, even if they understood that we're saying that there is this invisible radioactive stuff, if they haven't yet devised the concept of nuclear power, then they're just going to treat it the way that we treat the warnings on the pyramids, saying, don't go into the mummies, because you'll get attacked by spirits.

02:07:05.000 We're like, oh, that was a nice, fun thing for you to say, you old-fashioned people in ancient civilisations. 0.94

02:07:10.000 But we're going to go in and open the tomb anyway.

02:07:12.000 And so the conclusion was, don't do anything.

02:07:15.000 Just don't mark it at all.

02:07:16.000 Don't try to communicate it because human curiosity is always going to be more, not even human curiosity, maybe, like whatever this future species is, their curiosity is going to be more powerful than any warning that we could possibly give them.

02:07:29.000 Because this stuff lasts for tens, sometimes hundreds of thousands of years.

02:07:32.000 Yeah, we really fucked up with that whole nuclear power thing.

02:07:35.000 And I was trying to explain to someone who was, he's a pretty staunch conservative, and he was saying how clean nuclear power is relatively.

02:07:42.000 And I said, do you understand that nuclear power has only been around since the 1940s?

02:07:47.000 And we already, in this brief moment of time, we already have three spots that we can never go to.

02:07:53.000 They're done.

02:07:55.000 Like, Chernobyl is done.

02:07:56.000 Ever. 1.00

02:07:57.000 That spot is fucked. 1.00

02:07:58.000 You know, and Fukushima is fucked. 1.00

02:08:01.000 That spot is fucked. 1.00

02:08:02.000 You know, there was the other one, the Mile Island, Three Mile Island, whatever the fuck it was, Three Mile Island, whatever it was. 1.00

02:08:08.000 I don't think that's nearly as bad. 0.99

02:08:10.000 Mildly fucked. 0.99

02:08:10.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:08:11.000 But that's still three spots that they fucked up already. 0.76

02:08:15.000 Never to... 0.79

02:08:16.000 Not even to mention all the ones that are based on the same technology that Fukushima was, where they can't really shut them down. 0.96

02:08:22.000 They have these archaic fucking nuclear power plants that they built when they didn't really understand nuclear power plants. 0.86

02:08:28.000 Have you heard of pebble shell reactors or something like that? 0.99

02:08:33.000 Pebble...

02:08:33.000 Hang on, let me see if I can find...

02:08:35.000 Because there is apparently a type of reactor now where...

02:08:39.000 I don't know.

02:09:00.000 I think?

02:09:17.000 And just leave it up to other people to deal with.

02:09:19.000 And I hear conservatives or pro-nuclear people say, well, we'll figure it out eventually.

02:09:23.000 Okay, great.

02:09:23.000 Let's not use nuclear power until we figure it out then.

02:09:26.000 Because otherwise you just, you're fucking with other people's lives. 0.89

02:09:29.000 People don't think like that, though. 0.96

02:09:30.000 They think short-term and they just try to make as much money as possible.

02:09:33.000 That's Chernobyl today.

02:09:36.000 There's a great documentary that I watched on a plane back from Brazil called The Merchants of Doubt.

02:09:41.000 It was really...

02:09:42.000 Have you seen it?

02:09:43.000 Yes.

02:09:43.000 Remind me what it is, because I think I interviewed the filmmakers.

02:09:45.000 Fucking fascinating. 0.90

02:09:47.000 It is about... 0.98

02:09:48.000 Fake experts that essentially get hired by oil companies, tobacco companies, to poo-poo the concerns and debate them ferociously, the concerns about global warming, concerns they used to do, the concerns about tobacco being, or nicotine being addictive and causing cancer.

02:10:06.000 Yep.

02:10:06.000 And this guy shows that when there's money involved, what they do is they hire all these people to fuck with the argument, and they write op-ed columns in all these different newspapers all throughout the country, and they constantly hammer so that your grandfather reads and he goes,

02:10:23.000 I've read a thing today that said 31,000 scientists have said that global warming's not real.

02:10:28.000 You know who was amongst those 31,000 scientists?

02:10:30.000 Michael J. Fox.

02:10:32.000 That was one of the names.

02:10:34.000 They're fake.

02:10:35.000 They're fake names.

02:10:36.000 And they have Michael Shermer on who's kind of explaining that he's great.

02:10:40.000 At one point in time, he thought that it was nonsense, that global warming was nonsense.

02:10:45.000 And then he started delving into the actual data, the actual scientific papers, and then he realized, well, not only is there a consensus, That man-made global warming is a real thing, but there are no peer-reviewed studies, no scientific papers that indicate the opposite.

02:11:03.000 None.

02:11:03.000 Zero zilch.

02:11:04.000 I interviewed the director of that movie on HuffPost Live, so I did see the movie on a screener beforehand.

02:11:09.000 And the amazing thing to me was that it's not just the same tactics that are being used in sowing doubt about climate change as were used in sowing doubt about all kinds of other different things, you know, starting with...

02:11:21.000 Asbestos, all this sort of stuff.

02:11:23.000 It's the same human beings.

02:11:25.000 Yes, yes.

02:11:27.000 That's why it's called merchants of doubt.

02:11:29.000 These are the same human beings who went in and fought for the tobacco lobby, who then went and fought for the asbestos industry, who are now fighting for the fossil fuel companies.

02:11:39.000 Exactly the same human beings, using exactly the same playbook, using exactly the same tactics.

02:11:43.000 And those goddamn television shows where they have the split screen, where they have the host, and then they have the two experts debated out, and then you have the one person who's like Bill Nye, who's like sort of a reasonable scientist that's saying things that people can't totally understand because they're a little bit too technical. 0.96

02:12:01.000 And then you have this shouting guy who's like, fact! 0.99

02:12:05.000 23,000 scientists from 40 countries have said global warming's not real.

02:12:10.000 Fact!

02:12:10.000 The United States and blah, blah, blah.

02:12:12.000 And they have this playbook that they use.

02:12:15.000 They have this style of communicating in these short bursts.

02:12:18.000 Because those shows only last, you have seven minutes.

02:12:21.000 You have seven minutes, there's three people, they're all talking.

02:12:24.000 It's so hard to get a point across.

02:12:27.000 And it's one of the reasons why I think it's one of the shittiest ways to discuss a subject.

02:12:32.000 Totally. 1.00

02:12:33.000 Those shows suck. 1.00

02:12:34.000 This is one of the things that I really spend a lot of time trying to do in my job, which is overturn this phony sense of balance that is required. 0.98

02:12:44.000 So every journalist and every media person tries to be...

02:12:49.000 I think?

02:13:08.000 Now, there are some debates where one side is right and one side is wrong, right?

02:13:12.000 Or there's a 98% chance that one side is right and a 2% chance that the other side is right.

02:13:17.000 When you try to be balanced by just sitting in the middle and trying to moderate a debate between those two people...

02:13:23.000 You're actually not being unbiased at all.

02:13:25.000 You're being biased towards falsehood instead of towards truth.

02:13:29.000 So whenever I have a weekly segment about science news called the Nerds Forum on HuffPost Live, and I always try to explain to people and express, look, this is the likelihood that this thing is actually true, so let's talk about the science and let's not get caught up in this trap of false equivalencies.

02:13:47.000 It's like where, you know, did you see Colbert did a bit about...

02:13:51.000 No, it wasn't Colbert, it was John Oliver.

02:13:53.000 Did a bit...

02:13:54.000 Same guy.

02:13:55.000 Isn't it the same guy?

02:13:57.000 Isn't it the same guy?

02:13:58.000 John Oliver is a different guy.

02:14:00.000 Does he have an English accent?

02:14:02.000 He has an English accent.

02:14:02.000 I thought it was a new character that Colbert was doing.

02:14:04.000 Stephen Colbert is a human being.

02:14:07.000 Well, no, he's not.

02:14:08.000 He is now.

02:14:10.000 Not anymore.

02:14:10.000 He's going to host a light show.

02:14:12.000 Oh, right.

02:14:13.000 Colbert Report is no more.

02:14:15.000 Carry on.

02:14:15.000 So John Oliver did this bit where he was like, instead of having a pro-climate change person and an anti-climate change person, we think that we should actually reflect the proportions accurately.

02:14:28.000 Since 99% of climate scientists believe in it, they have won.

02:14:33.000 So he brings out 99 people come on set.

02:14:35.000 And they're all just shouting the pro-climate change position.

02:14:39.000 And there's this one other guy who's shouting the anti-climate change position.

02:14:42.000 And he's like, this is what it actually is.

02:14:44.000 It's not one for one. 0.97

02:14:45.000 It's 99 for one.

02:14:47.000 And that's how the media should portray it.

02:14:48.000 That's hilarious.

02:14:49.000 That's a great idea, by the way.

02:14:51.000 That really is a great idea.

02:14:53.000 Yeah, I think that those shows are horrible because this is how a lot of people get their information.

02:14:58.000 And they call it the news, in quotes.

02:15:01.000 But it's not really the news.

02:15:02.000 It's an entertainment show.

02:15:03.000 And it's an entertainment show that relies on commercials.

02:15:06.000 So there's balanced...

02:15:08.000 There's nuanced perspectives and arguments that are extremely complex.

02:15:13.000 We spent all this time talking about the conservation for hunting argument and the artificial intelligence argument, the argument about pursuing it.

02:15:23.000 All these things are real complex, nuanced...

02:15:27.000 Issues that require long sort of detailed examinations of all the possibilities, and not from a biased perspective, but from as objective as is humanly possible, especially when there's real ramifications, things like global warming or nuclear energy or things that really are going to fuck up our generation and generations to come,

02:15:48.000 like hundreds of thousands of years from now.

02:15:51.000 Those don't get addressed when you have seven minutes and you have a guy who's being paid by these think tanks.

02:15:56.000 That's what's crazy about this Merchants of Doubt documentary, is it shows that there's these people that are paid by think tanks.

02:16:05.000 And these think tanks, what they really are, is they're these fake organizations that are propped up by companies that are selling whatever the fuck they would benefit from this being passed or this being The concerns being alleviated.

02:16:18.000 One of them being like this doctor who was paid by this think tank to go and preach about these flame-retardant fabrics and materials they're using to make furniture. 0.94

02:16:31.000 And that he would say this story about a woman who left a candle in the baby's bed.

02:16:37.000 It was a cigarette, wasn't it?

02:16:38.000 No, it was a candle.

02:16:39.000 She said a candle.

02:16:40.000 There was a cigarette story, too.

02:16:42.000 A woman left a candle in her baby's crib.

02:16:45.000 And that the baby, because the pillow was flame retardant... 0.94

02:16:51.000 He leaves a candle in a baby's crib anyway.

02:16:53.000 Exactly.

02:16:54.000 It wasn't a real story.

02:16:55.000 It was a lie.

02:16:56.000 And this guy had told not that story, not just once, but several times over a long period of time, over many years.

02:17:03.000 And these people started investigating.

02:17:05.000 Merchants of Doubt. 0.96

02:17:06.000 Go watch the documentary.

02:17:07.000 It's amazing.

02:17:08.000 And they started investigating this doctor, and they called him up.

02:17:12.000 Did you actually treat these people?

02:17:14.000 They looked into his background, his past.

02:17:16.000 They did a computer database on all the infants that died from burns in this guy's area, and they found that it was a lie.

02:17:25.000 And so they called him, and they said, well, this is an anecdotal thing, and it wasn't real, I was just trying to paint a story of what's possible. 0.94

02:17:32.000 No, he fucking, but because he wasn't under oath, because he wasn't under oath when he was testifying, he was allowed to lie about this stuff. 0.81

02:17:40.000 When they asked him, yeah, I was paid for Citizens for Fire Safety or whatever the fuck the think tank was, and then when a think tank has less than X amount of members, you have to sort of disclose where the funding comes from. 0.99

02:17:51.000 And the funding all came from the manufacturers of this flame retardant shit that is causing all sorts of problems with children, especially babies, like babies that are around this flame retardant stuff, the dust from that stuff. 0.99

02:18:02.000 It gets in their lungs, it gets in their system, and they showed, like, the difference between the amount of the shit that's in American babies versus the amount of the shit that's in babies in other countries, where they don't have these people lobbying to have this shit be put in their furniture. 0.99

02:18:15.000 It's fucking terrifying. 0.99

02:18:17.000 I often wonder, living in America, why cancer rates here are increasing at the rate that they are, and, you know, why... 0.99

02:18:25.000 Fox News.

02:18:26.000 Gives you cancer, just watch now.

02:18:28.000 Megan Kelly, those hot chicks? 1.00

02:18:30.000 Something is going on, right, that is not happening in Japan and is not happening in other countries.

02:18:37.000 And I wonder whether it is stuff like industries lobbying for, like, fire safety things.

02:18:42.000 So every time you sit down on your couch, you're just absorbing the tiniest, tiniest, tiniest little bit of some shitty chemical.

02:18:50.000 I don't want to get too hippy-dippy about it, but all the stuff that's in our soaps, you look at the ingredients on things, and it's just a litany of chemicals.

02:19:00.000 It makes me want to move to New Zealand and eat my grandmother's beautiful eggs from a natural chicken, and just use eucalyptus oil to bathe myself in, and sit on a wooden chair.

02:19:11.000 Well, I think you're right, and I think the argument is pretty clear when you see things like this Merchants of Doubt, and you find out how lobbyists work, and you find out how think tanks work, and you find out how these people are actively trying to get these things, to get the concerns about these things alleviated, and they're doing it strictly for financial reasons.

02:19:29.000 That's it.

02:19:30.000 They're not doing it because they have a real concern, and it takes us a while before we figure it out.

02:19:36.000 Thalidomide babies, and that has to happen. 0.99

02:19:38.000 Asbestos.

02:19:39.000 People have to get cancer.

02:19:39.000 They get rid of asbestos.

02:19:41.000 Now they're getting rid of trans fats.

02:19:42.000 Trans fats are now illegal. 0.99

02:19:43.000 Well, how many fucking people had to get sick? 0.99

02:19:45.000 I mean, how long of trans fats and margarine? 0.99

02:19:48.000 I can't believe it's not butter. 1.00

02:19:49.000 How long has that shit been around? 1.00

02:19:51.000 It's been around forever. 1.00

02:19:52.000 And people have lobbied and lied and promoted these things for their own personal gain and profits.

02:19:59.000 And it's crazy, but it's a real part of our culture.

02:20:02.000 It's a real part of our legal system.

02:20:04.000 It's a real part of how we create laws.

02:20:09.000 It's kind of scary.

02:20:10.000 It's kind of scary when you think about how sociopathic it really is.

02:20:13.000 That's right.

02:20:14.000 And I do think that, again, coming back to the media, I think we have a big responsibility because...

02:20:19.000 Are we in the media?

02:20:20.000 You and me?

02:20:21.000 I didn't mean to include you in the we.

02:20:23.000 I was including...

02:20:24.000 I got nervous.

02:20:25.000 I mean, you are, and you're part of the good part of the media insofar as what the internet is now doing is allowing conversations like this.

02:20:32.000 Like you say, well, how can you impart these ideas in seven minutes?

02:20:35.000 I mean, you're lucky if you get seven minutes on network TV. You usually get three minutes.

02:20:39.000 If you're on the Today Show, you get three minutes or something.

02:20:41.000 Right, but how many people have time to listen to a three-hour podcast?

02:20:44.000 The 1.6 million Twitter followers?

02:20:46.000 Yeah, there's a lot now.

02:20:48.000 It's getting more now, but it's also ridiculous that a former Fear Factor host, meathead, cage-fighting commentator, smokes pot all the time, is the guy that you're coming to for information.

02:20:59.000 It seems like there should be someone more qualified.

02:21:01.000 Well, that's right.

02:21:01.000 That's right.

02:21:02.000 But I mean...

02:21:02.000 And there are, like Sam Harris, and there's a lot more people out there that are doing this as well.

02:21:07.000 But this medium, I agree with you that this medium...

02:21:09.000 Absolutely.

02:21:10.000 And the problem is that journalists don't tend to be scientifically literate.

02:21:15.000 So when something comes out saying that butter is a deadly killer and margarine is the answer, then someone puts out a press release.

02:21:23.000 A PR company earns And then the producer at the radio station or the television station who receives that knows that that's a juicy tidbit.

02:21:32.000 So they write it up and they do a story on it.

02:21:35.000 And that's that.

02:21:35.000 All of a sudden, the viewer is under the impression that this is a settled fact.

02:21:40.000 It's not a settled fact.

02:21:41.000 It's one study.

02:21:42.000 And in three years' time, margarine is going to be a deadly killer and butter is going to be good again.

02:21:47.000 But also in the defense of the people that were distributing that information, there was very little known about cholesterol back then.

02:21:52.000 LDL cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, what is the difference?

02:21:54.000 What was needed?

02:21:55.000 Scientific work had still been needed to be done on a lot of different dietary supplements and things.

02:22:02.000 The data wasn't in yet.

02:22:03.000 Right, but Joe, scientists will always speak with more caveats than the media does.

02:22:07.000 Right.

02:22:08.000 If you'd spoken to a scientist back then, even if they hadn't known about LDL cholesterol, they would have said...

02:22:13.000 Look, on the basis of what we currently understand about margarine and butter and human physiology, blah-de-blah-de-blah.

02:22:19.000 That's not the way that it ends up getting imparted, because nobody wants to watch a television show that equivocates like that, or a news broadcast that equivocates like that.

02:22:25.000 Right.

02:22:25.000 No, I think you're definitely right about that.

02:22:27.000 And I also think that we're in a weird time now, where, because of the internet, and because, like, you could do HuffPost, I don't know what kind of editorial control they have over what you do.

02:22:38.000 Like, when you do your show, I really enjoy your...

02:22:40.000 Thank you.

02:22:40.000 If anybody hasn't seen it, the reason why I wanted to get you on the show in the first place, I've watched many episodes of your show, and it's very balanced, like this conversation.

02:22:48.000 It's a cool show, and it's very unlike something that you would see in normal NBC, 8pm, or whatever the fuck it would be on broadcast television.

02:22:59.000 It's just very different.

02:22:59.000 I think that that kind of stuff, and that the internet, and the freedom that it provides, And also the amount of information, the access to it, is kind of changing the ability of these people to do things like this.

02:23:13.000 Yeah, I agree.

02:23:16.000 Did you see, by the way, and this also just popped into my head while we were talking, Richard Dawkins' tweet about feminism in Islam?

02:23:25.000 No, what did he say?

02:23:27.000 He said, Islam needs a feminist revolution. 1.00

02:23:31.000 It will be hard.

02:23:32.000 What can we do to help?

02:23:35.000 Which seems reasonable to me.

02:23:37.000 And then the internet just exploded.

02:23:41.000 Really?

02:23:42.000 They got mad at him?

02:23:42.000 Oh.

02:23:42.000 Oh, totally.

02:23:43.000 He was so misogynistic. 0.98

02:23:45.000 How dare he has a white male? 1.00

02:23:47.000 Look, I still have these tabs up on my computer because we were looking at it the other day. 0.98

02:23:51.000 How dare he has a white male? 1.00

02:23:52.000 Think that women who are forced to wear these crazy outfits, they cover their body, they can't go to school, they can't drive, they can't vote. 1.00

02:24:00.000 Look at these headlines.

02:24:01.000 Richard Dawkins mansplains feminism to Muslim women.

02:24:04.000 Whoa, mansplains.

02:24:06.000 Atheist Richard Dawkins' tweet fail.

02:24:09.000 Richard Dawkins fails spectacularly on feminism and Islam.

02:24:12.000 Who wrote these, by the way?

02:24:14.000 They're all over the place.

02:24:16.000 One of them's an opinion piece in the HuffPost.

02:24:18.000 What?

02:24:19.000 Yeah.

02:24:20.000 I mean, a blog.

02:24:21.000 What is the opinion blog?

02:24:22.000 What does it say?

02:24:24.000 That is the...

02:24:25.000 Hang on, let me see if I've still got it up.

02:24:26.000 I think I... I just saved the titles here, see, so I don't have the...

02:24:32.000 There are so many people looking to call bullshit on men that somehow or another try to say anything about what women do or need to do.

02:24:42.000 Like, here's one Twitter user. 0.99

02:24:44.000 It says, Richard Dawkins needs to abandon his patronizing white savior paternalist Islamophobia.

02:24:51.000 Like, how many buzzwords can you fit in a tweet?

02:24:54.000 How many politically correct buzzwords can you fit in the tweet?

02:24:56.000 That person's not real.

02:24:57.000 That's a Stephen Colbert of Huffington Post.

02:24:59.000 That's what that is. 1.00

02:25:00.000 They're pretending to be a fucking liberal. 1.00

02:25:02.000 It's like the conservative. 0.99

02:25:04.000 And then there was an article saying that he's no better than early 20th century European colonists who told Muslim women that they needed help from European men.

02:25:13.000 The tweet even says, what can we do to help?

02:25:16.000 It says, Islam needs a feminist revolution. 0.99

02:25:18.000 It will be hard.

02:25:19.000 What can we do to help?

02:25:20.000 That's a beautiful tweet, and it's correct. 0.99

02:25:22.000 Look, if you just look at it, forget about Islam, forget about sexes, forget about all that gender shit. 0.99

02:25:29.000 If you just looked at it, there's a human being that's looking at other human beings that are forced to behave in a way that they might not want to. 1.00

02:25:36.000 That's Islamophobic, Joe.

02:25:37.000 It has nothing to do with Islam. 1.00

02:25:39.000 Let's say it's a new group that starts up tomorrow and they call themselves the fucking monkey faces. 0.99

02:25:44.000 Joe, you're ignoring the deep complexity of so many different strains of Islam throughout the world. 1.00

02:25:49.000 You're disempowering women of color in the Muslim world. 1.00

02:25:52.000 What about white chicks that are Muslim? 1.00

02:25:54.000 You're a racist. 1.00

02:25:55.000 I just called you out and you don't call out. 1.00

02:25:57.000 Fucking racist. 1.00

02:25:58.000 There's a lot of white Muslims, bro. 1.00

02:26:00.000 Of course I'm being sarcastic.

02:26:01.000 I know you are.

02:26:02.000 It's just so frustrating.

02:26:03.000 My call-out was sarcastic, too.

02:26:05.000 I know.

02:26:05.000 But I mean, what can you do?

02:26:07.000 What can we do? 0.99

02:26:08.000 I think there are people that are trying to call bullshit on people when the bullshit doesn't exist because they want to score. 0.99

02:26:14.000 Just like we were talking about earlier that cops want to arrest people because it's a fucking game and they want to win. 0.99

02:26:19.000 I think there's people that want to win on Twitter. 0.98

02:26:22.000 There's people that want to win on HuffPost. 0.71

02:26:23.000 There's people that are looking to write blogs about a guy like Richard Dawkins Who has said some kind of weird, questionable shit in the past? 0.99

02:26:30.000 Like, especially the shit that he said about child molesting. 0.99

02:26:33.000 He experienced some mild molestation when he was young. 1.00

02:26:37.000 No big deal.

02:26:38.000 Got over it.

02:26:39.000 You know, like, whoa, whoa, whoa. 1.00

02:26:40.000 What the fuck, man? 0.99

02:26:41.000 But even then, if you listen to what he was actually saying, I think what he was saying is... 1.00

02:26:45.000 Get over it.

02:26:46.000 ...that we have certain paradigms about which we get very, very upset.

02:26:51.000 Yes.

02:26:51.000 And because...

02:26:53.000 Abusing and violently raping children is pretty much the worst thing that you can possibly do. 0.95

02:26:58.000 We have made it mandatory to regard all child abuse as being the worst thing that can possibly happen. 1.00

02:27:04.000 I think his point was, like, I was fondled by a stupid, crazy priest when I was, you know, 12 years old or something, and I pretty quickly got over it. 0.95

02:27:12.000 So that's not to say that other people who didn't get over it didn't go through horrible things, but do we have to regard every single instance of every single type of Right. 0.97

02:27:36.000 Well, and also, this is a horrible thing to say, but...

02:27:39.000 And I'll...

02:27:41.000 Preface it by saying this is my own personal experience.

02:27:44.000 I was bullied when I was a kid But it was mild bullying like nobody did anything horrible to me.

02:27:49.000 I was never beaten half to death or I was never Nobody ever threatened me with weapons I just kind of picked on and fucked with but it got me into martial arts and it changed my life like these a the yin and the yang to things and And I think that sometimes a little bit of resistance is good because the reaction to that resistance is you decide,

02:28:10.000 like, this is never going to happen to me anymore.

02:28:11.000 I'm going to fire up and I'm going to figure out a way to empower myself so this is no longer a fear of mine. 0.98

02:28:18.000 And I think that a little bit of someone being an asshole to you makes you appreciate kind people. 0.98

02:28:24.000 I think the evil people in the world... 1.00

02:28:26.000 Here's another one.

02:28:27.000 Shitty relationships.

02:28:29.000 I think most of us have had some bad relationships.

02:28:32.000 Bad relationships make you appreciate good relationships.

02:28:35.000 Right. 1.00

02:28:36.000 One of the things I really love about my wife, she doesn't like to argue about shit. 1.00

02:28:40.000 She's like a really kind person. 0.98

02:28:42.000 She's friendly and sweet and warm.

02:28:43.000 And she's not like a person who picks on people. 0.97

02:28:46.000 And she picks on you or starts arguing or brings up shit that happened like a month ago or a year ago. 0.94

02:28:51.000 I have a buddy that has a wife that argues with him like that. 1.00

02:28:55.000 Well, yeah? 0.98

02:28:55.000 Well, you know, when we are first dating, he's like, that was fucking 10 years ago! 0.98

02:28:59.000 No! 0.99

02:28:59.000 Ten fucking years ago! 0.99

02:29:01.000 I'm not even the same guy! 0.99

02:29:03.000 He's like, every fucking cell in my body is different from the cells that were in my body seven years ago. 1.00

02:29:07.000 I'm not responsible for that guy who came home drunk and fucking shit in the sink. 1.00

02:29:10.000 Also, he's probably already apologized. 0.99

02:29:12.000 Exactly, but it's not... 0.98

02:29:13.000 If anything comes up, like if she does something wrong, like if she doesn't pay a bill, it's like, what the fuck? 0.76

02:29:18.000 The cable's off. 0.99

02:29:19.000 Well, you remember when we first started dating and you fucking... 0.95

02:29:20.000 Yes, I do remember that, and it also has nothing whatsoever to do with the conversation that we're having right now. 1.00

02:29:26.000 Well, when you experience that he fucked up and married this crazy broad, sorry I said broad, I'm an asshole, I'm a misogynist, oh my god, Joe Rogan and trying to explain things. 0.99

02:29:35.000 Your white male privilege is dripping into the microphone right now. 1.00

02:29:39.000 It is dripping. 1.00

02:29:39.000 I spray that shit like cum. 1.00

02:29:42.000 That's what I do with my white male privilege. 1.00

02:29:44.000 I don't allow it to just ooze out like maple syrup.

02:29:47.000 I think that when we see these terrible things, like when I go to, I love Brazil, okay?

02:29:54.000 Brazil's a wonderful country.

02:29:56.000 The people are friendly, they're free, they're happy, but it's also like kind of crazy unorganized. 0.95

02:30:02.000 Like when you go to the airport, like one of the things, when we were getting on a plane from Sao Paulo to Brazil, or Sao Paulo to Rio rather, we couldn't find out what fucking gate it was.

02:30:15.000 Because the gate said 17C. So we go to 17C, and the lady, you know, she speaks Portuguese, so she's like, no, no, no, 24, 24. I'm like, but it doesn't say 24, it says 17C. So we go to 24, and 24 says Florinopolis, and it says another one next to it.

02:30:32.000 I'm like, what the fuck? 0.99

02:30:32.000 But they were saying it over the loudspeaker. 0.99

02:30:35.000 So all the people that were listening that spoke Portuguese knew that it was, but there was no signs.

02:30:39.000 Right.

02:30:40.000 Because it's a different world. 0.98

02:30:42.000 So it made me appreciate, when you come back to America, you look up at the fucking departures, oh, there's the gate, here we go. 0.97

02:30:48.000 Yeah, what if you only spoke Mandarin, though? 0.98

02:30:50.000 It's true. 1.00

02:30:51.000 I'd be fucked. 1.00

02:30:52.000 You'd be fucked. 1.00

02:30:53.000 You'd be just as bad here. 1.00

02:30:54.000 It'd be even worse, because if I spoke Mandarin and I was in Brazil, I'd be double fucked. 1.00

02:30:59.000 They couldn't even read what the fuck they're writing, and they couldn't know what the hell. 0.99

02:31:03.000 You know, you'd go to your app on your phone and try to decipher it, but point being, like, when you see something, like, if you go to, like, my buddy who went to Africa and experienced, like, all the chaos of Africa, said, God, I mean, people complain about America. 0.98

02:31:18.000 Like, you go, yes, of course it's not perfect.

02:31:20.000 There is no utopia on this planet.

02:31:23.000 Denmark.

02:31:24.000 Is Denmark utopia?

02:31:25.000 I don't know.

02:31:26.000 I mean, it's just like, I think there are degrees, right?

02:31:28.000 Like, obviously Africa and many South American countries are going to be more screwed up than rich countries like America.

02:31:37.000 Right. 0.99

02:31:37.000 But then within the club of rich countries, there are also countries where shit just works. 0.99

02:31:42.000 It's just easy. 0.98

02:31:43.000 Like, stuff is easy.

02:31:44.000 I lived in Copenhagen for a semester and went to university there in my early 20s.

02:31:48.000 And, like, You know, there's no lines at the post office.

02:31:51.000 I mean, granted, there's no people who live there.

02:31:53.000 There's like 14 people in the whole country.

02:31:54.000 But, like, it's still scalable.

02:31:57.000 You could actually have – they've still got the same tax base per capita, you know, as America could have if it wanted to have higher taxes.

02:32:03.000 And you could actually have a DMV that works.

02:32:06.000 And you could have a post office that functions.

02:32:07.000 We don't have to wait around all the time.

02:32:09.000 It's just, there are certainly societies that, you know, Thomas Friedman says that flying from Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam into JFK is like flying from the Jetsons to the Flintstones.

02:32:24.000 Like LaGuardia is a shithole, and that's just the way it is.

02:32:27.000 There are countries whose airports are nice and whose trains are fast and whose healthcare systems work more cheaply. 0.74

02:32:34.000 The worst is the way the people treat you at LaGuardia. 0.99

02:32:38.000 They're so fucking over it and aggressively over it, like shitty to you. 0.99

02:32:43.000 Oh, New York TSA workers are my least favorite of all the TSA workers. 1.00

02:32:48.000 They're pretty bad. 1.00

02:32:49.000 They're fucking so dicky. 1.00

02:32:50.000 You ask them a question, like... 1.00

02:32:53.000 Now that I've got to tell you, you're lucky that...

02:32:57.000 Do you have global entry?

02:32:58.000 I need to get it!

02:32:59.000 You've got to get it, Joe.

02:33:00.000 I know! 1.00

02:33:01.000 I'm a fucking idiot! 1.00

02:33:02.000 I mean, because... 1.00

02:33:02.000 God damn it! 1.00

02:33:03.000 I just got my green card earlier this... 0.99

02:33:05.000 I got my green card earlier this year.

02:33:07.000 Welcome to our country, sir.

02:33:08.000 Thank you very much.

02:33:09.000 I hope Hope you enjoy it.

02:33:10.000 Hope you appreciate it.

02:33:11.000 I've been in more than 10 years, but, you know, just on temporary visas.

02:33:15.000 And now that I was able to get global entry, just not having to deal with the customs officials coming in, especially in the foreigner's lane.

02:33:24.000 I mean, I imagine it may be better in the citizen's lane. 0.97

02:33:27.000 But coming in in the foreigner's lane where you're in front of, like, they've just had to deal with 478, like, people who don't speak English who are probably coming in with some lousy shit from abroad or something. 1.00

02:33:40.000 Have a chicken in their backpack. 0.99

02:33:41.000 Yeah, that's right, exactly.

02:33:44.000 What do you got in the backpack there?

02:33:46.000 Nothing, nothing, no speak.

02:33:47.000 Whoa, how racist. 0.99

02:33:49.000 Josh Zeps, racist. 0.98

02:33:51.000 Sui Park, get on it. 0.97

02:33:53.000 Get on it, Sui, start tweeting.

02:33:54.000 What can we do to help? 0.99

02:33:55.000 Asshole, I can't believe what he just did. 0.99

02:33:57.000 And so by the time I get up to the customs guy, they are pissed, they're over it, they're over me, they're over everything. 0.98

02:34:04.000 So just being able to go to the kiosk and swipe your global entry and then just walk straight through, it's one of the greatest things ever.

02:34:10.000 All the guys I work with at the UFC have it.

02:34:13.000 I'm the only one who doesn't. 1.00

02:34:14.000 I'm a fucking moron. 1.00

02:34:15.000 It's not hard. 1.00

02:34:16.000 Just busy, bro. 0.98

02:34:16.000 I'm doing a lot of podcasts and shit. 0.98

02:34:18.000 You are. 0.99

02:34:20.000 No excuse.

02:34:21.000 It's not hard.

02:34:22.000 You make an appointment.

02:34:24.000 I go to cryotherapy five times a week.

02:34:26.000 I can't go to a global entry appointment.

02:34:28.000 Yeah, you should do it.

02:34:29.000 I should.

02:34:30.000 I agree with you.

02:34:31.000 I'm disappointed in myself as well.

02:34:33.000 You should be.

02:34:33.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:34:35.000 I wonder whether or not, just on why people are angry at Richard Dawkins for saying something that obviously makes sense.

02:34:41.000 I think they're not really angry.

02:34:42.000 I don't believe they are angry.

02:34:43.000 I feel like some people see the world in groups and identities, and for them, identity politics is the most important way of contextualizing and conceiving of the things that are happening around them in culture.

02:34:58.000 So the moment a person who's a white male starts saying anything, they're like, okay, this is in the category of patronizing white male authority, looking down on this other category of person who is oppressed, Yes.

02:35:30.000 Yes.

02:35:33.000 Yes.

02:35:51.000 I think?

02:36:05.000 I love when people who have these knee-jerk reactions to these things, like they see these openings and they go for it because they feel like there's an opening to attack, also get attacked. 0.96

02:36:14.000 Like, there's a woman who wrote a piece, she's a feminist, and she wrote a piece about my friend Amy Schumer, who is hilarious and wild and just fucking awesome, and she's kicking ass right now. 0.98

02:36:25.000 And she's on the cover of a magazine, sucking on C-3PO's finger. 0.96

02:36:29.000 And they were saying why this magazine is so awful about, you know, against feminism. 1.00

02:36:35.000 And I was like, what the fuck are you, like, this is an anti-feminist thing and she shouldn't be sucking fingers, like... 1.00

02:36:41.000 As if, like, you're a woman, you can't be sexual, you know, like, isn't it, like, part of being a person who owns themselves, owning all the things you enjoy? 1.00

02:36:50.000 Maybe she likes sucking fingers, you know? 1.00

02:36:53.000 Like, she's a fucking, she's an autonomous human being. 1.00

02:36:55.000 How condescending is it? 1.00

02:36:57.000 Oh yeah, there's a picture of it.

02:36:58.000 That's fun. 1.00

02:36:58.000 Badass bitch. 1.00

02:36:59.000 Look at her. 1.00

02:36:59.000 She's so good. 1.00

02:37:00.000 I love her.

02:37:01.000 I love her. 1.00

02:37:01.000 She's gangster as fuck. 1.00

02:37:02.000 But here's the thing. 1.00

02:37:03.000 The same woman wrote a bit, she wrote another piece, because I like to follow knuckleheads. 0.99

02:37:08.000 She wrote another piece about how she's getting older and it's really kind of, she's torn because she doesn't get catcalled as much anymore.

02:37:16.000 Oh please.

02:37:18.000 She actually has conflicting opinions about this.

02:37:20.000 And so here's the tweet that drove me crazy.

02:37:24.000 I howled at my own computer.

02:37:26.000 Someone tweeted her saying that this article about being conflicted, about not being catcalled anymore, I felt like that was a very white cis piece. 0.82

02:37:38.000 White cisgender, meaning that people of color and trans people have to worry about being catcalled, because trans people, if they're catcalled and then someone finds out that they're trans, they can get beaten to death. 0.73

02:37:51.000 And you should be more aware of that when you write these pieces, you're insensitive. 0.89

02:37:54.000 And the woman was like, true. 0.82

02:37:56.000 She had to acquiesce. 1.00

02:37:58.000 She had to give in to it, because she's a part of that fucking retarded culture. 1.00

02:38:02.000 Right. 1.00

02:38:02.000 She got stuck in her own bullshit ideology! 1.00

02:38:05.000 Here's the caveat. 1.00

02:38:07.000 Trans women in particular, but trans people in general, are the victims of violence at way higher rates than everybody else.

02:38:13.000 So let's just put that aside and say that that's a terrible thing and that we should be supportive of the trans community. 0.90

02:38:18.000 But, I mean, you heard about there was a college that cancelled the vagina monologues? 1.00

02:38:24.000 Because they were doing a production of the vagina monologues, this popular feminist play.

02:38:28.000 Yes, yes, yes. 0.84

02:38:30.000 And the on-campus trans community...

02:38:33.000 Not even the on-campus trans community.

02:38:35.000 There wasn't an on-campus trans community. 1.00

02:38:36.000 The on-campus liberal fucking knee-jerk douchebags decided it was insensitive to trans people. 1.00

02:38:43.000 To trans people because not all women have vaginas. 1.00

02:38:46.000 Exactly! 1.00

02:38:48.000 Some women have dicks. 1.00

02:38:50.000 Yeah, and not all people are people. 1.00

02:38:52.000 My dog is a person.

02:38:53.000 My dog identifies as a person.

02:38:54.000 Uh-huh.

02:38:55.000 I don't know if you know that.

02:38:56.000 I didn't know that.

02:38:57.000 Well, be more respectful and sensitive.

02:38:59.000 Because not all dogs are actually human beings.

02:39:02.000 Or not all people are human beings.

02:39:04.000 What?

02:39:04.000 I didn't follow that bit.

02:39:06.000 We live in fucking fairytale land. 0.99

02:39:08.000 It's too easy to get food. 1.00

02:39:09.000 That's what's going on. 0.99

02:39:10.000 So people make up shit to get upset about. 0.99

02:39:12.000 That's my feeling. 1.00

02:39:13.000 It's too easy to just go to the supermarket and pick up fucking cereal. 1.00

02:39:16.000 It's just too easy. 1.00

02:39:18.000 Here's the thing.

02:39:19.000 How are you actually supposed to help people How are we supposed to be kind and considerate and generous if every time we try to, we get shot down because we put our foot in it?

02:39:29.000 Like, Dawkins in that tweet about Islam is trying to support women.

02:39:33.000 Yes.

02:39:34.000 Like, what could be wrong with that?

02:39:35.000 He tries to do that, and then feminists jump down his throat for being condescending towards women because Muslim women should be the ones who are sticking up for Muslim women. 1.00

02:39:42.000 They don't need your white, patriarchal, Islamophobic, male...

02:39:59.000 Well, I think we have to negate the opinions of those people that write these posts for, like, the HuffPost, write these articles. 0.95

02:40:07.000 We have to negate them by mocking them. 0.99

02:40:09.000 Because I think it is hilariously stupid. 1.00

02:40:11.000 I think that opinion is fucking hilariously stupid. 1.00

02:40:14.000 That he doesn't have the right to say that he has concern for people that are a different gender than him, that have a different ideology than him, that live in a different part of the world than him, that have more melanin in their skin. 1.00

02:40:25.000 That's ridiculous. 0.86

02:40:26.000 And I think that what we're doing here by mocking that is really the correct response. 0.96

02:40:30.000 It's the only correct response.

02:40:32.000 You're not going to get that response from the news.

02:40:34.000 You're not going to get that from the president.

02:40:36.000 But you get that from people that don't have a vested interest in supporting one particular tribe.

02:40:41.000 And I think that's one of the things that they talked about in this Merchants of Doubt documentary that really resonated with me, is that a lot of times when people talk about global warming or they talk about fucking chemtrails or any of these things, there's a tribe of people that have subscribed to that ideology,

02:40:56.000 and it's very important that you support that tribe. 0.85

02:40:59.000 And it manifests itself in ridiculous places, like the tribe of people that are like... 1.00

02:41:05.000 They love Android phones. 0.83

02:41:06.000 They love Android phones.

02:41:08.000 And they hate iPhones. 1.00

02:41:09.000 I have a friend who fucking hates... 0.99

02:41:11.000 She's brilliant. 0.99

02:41:12.000 She's a brilliant director.

02:41:13.000 She writes movies. 0.99

02:41:15.000 She's fucking great. 1.00

02:41:16.000 She hates Mac. 1.00

02:41:17.000 I hate Mac. 1.00

02:41:18.000 Everybody uses Mac. 1.00

02:41:19.000 I won't fucking use Apple. 0.98

02:41:20.000 I use Windows. 0.99

02:41:21.000 I'm like, what are you talking about, Patty?

02:41:22.000 Give me a hug. 1.00

02:41:23.000 What the fuck is wrong with you? 1.00

02:41:25.000 It's a goddamn computer. 1.00

02:41:26.000 These ones don't get viruses. 1.00

02:41:28.000 The other ones do.

02:41:29.000 That's right.

02:41:29.000 You're such a powerful individual for not being a Mac person, right?

02:41:32.000 It's like you're asserting your rebelliousness by going with the world's largest computer company. 0.97

02:41:38.000 She knows it's ridiculous. 0.99

02:41:39.000 She laughs when I make fun of it, but she just fucking sticks to her guns. 1.00

02:41:42.000 She fucking digs her heels in the ground, fucking wraps her wrists around a cord. 1.00

02:41:47.000 Hang on. 1.00

02:41:48.000 I'm not going anywhere.

02:41:50.000 Just madness.

02:41:51.000 What about those people who, when a new product comes out, and it's usually an Apple product, they'll go out and they'll camp for four or five days in order to be the first person who gets the product?

02:42:00.000 It reminded me a little bit of when you were talking about your buddy who did the massive, massive marathon but then came in fourth.

02:42:07.000 I was watching the Today Show or something where they were interviewing the people who were standing in line and they've all got tents and they've got sleeping bags.

02:42:17.000 They're on Fifth Avenue near Central Park and they're camping out for 72 hours.

02:42:23.000 And the correspondent was talking to someone who was the seventh in line or something.

02:42:29.000 And I was like...

02:42:32.000 Like, what are you doing?

02:42:33.000 Like, I can understand spending a week outside to get the new iPhone if you're number one.

02:42:38.000 Why is not being number seven even better than being, like, number 342?

02:42:42.000 What difference is, oh, I got the seventh iPhone.

02:42:44.000 Maybe he's in the middle.

02:42:46.000 Like, do you think that that's, I mean, what is it about people that are going to get something that doesn't even do anything different?

02:42:53.000 Yeah.

02:42:54.000 Like, the smartest person I know is this woman, Dr. Rhonda Patrick. 0.80

02:42:57.000 She does my podcast all the time.

02:42:59.000 She's absolutely brilliant.

02:43:00.000 She has an iPhone 4. Right.

02:43:02.000 It's an old piece of shit. 1.00

02:43:03.000 Mm-hmm. 1.00

02:43:04.000 It's the size of my thumbnail.

02:43:05.000 It doesn't even, like, run.

02:43:06.000 There are certain things that don't even run.

02:43:08.000 You know, like, there are so many apps.

02:43:09.000 Like, even now, until I recently...

02:43:11.000 I didn't have any space on my phone to...

02:43:12.000 You got a 5, see?

02:43:13.000 I got a 5, sure.

02:43:13.000 You're smarter than me.

02:43:14.000 I got a big fucking stupid 6. Well, there you go. 1.00

02:43:17.000 It's better.

02:43:18.000 It's the new thing.

02:43:19.000 It's the new thing.

02:43:19.000 One generation back.

02:43:21.000 You know, I didn't even realize there was a 6. Wow, you're amazing.

02:43:25.000 That's how cool I am.

02:43:26.000 That's how much of an individual I am, Joe.

02:43:28.000 I'm so totes out of the whole, let's keep up with the Joneses thing.

02:43:32.000 Go to gizmodo.com.

02:43:34.000 No, I don't even know.

02:43:35.000 I just live in Brooklyn and eat kale.

02:43:36.000 You live in Brooklyn and eat kale, which is even better, because they don't grow kale in Brooklyn.

02:43:41.000 We have it flown in from Brazil.

02:43:47.000 So, I didn't have any room on my phone to upgrade to the latest software.

02:43:51.000 So, for ages, I was still running the older software.

02:43:54.000 And gradually, your apps just stopped working.

02:43:56.000 Like, stuff just doesn't even work.

02:43:58.000 Like, you open up the American Airlines app, and it's like, this is no longer supported by this software.

02:44:02.000 So, they keep you on your toes.

02:44:04.000 Well, I still have an older software, too.

02:44:06.000 I don't have the newest software, because I don't have the newest software on my computer, either. 0.96

02:44:10.000 I heard it fucking crashes. 0.87

02:44:12.000 I wait a long time, man. 0.99

02:44:14.000 Yeah, me too.

02:44:15.000 I wait some time. 0.92

02:44:16.000 I was once interviewing a plastic surgeon in Australia about penile enlargement surgery. 0.96

02:44:21.000 Don't ask. 0.72

02:44:23.000 Does it work?

02:44:25.000 Is that done?

02:44:26.000 It is, but yeah, they have.

02:44:28.000 Really?

02:44:28.000 Yeah, but it has some side effects.

02:44:32.000 What's the side effects? 1.00

02:44:32.000 Your dick flops around in weird ways when it's working. 1.00

02:44:34.000 Oh, that's when they cut the tendon? 1.00

02:44:36.000 Yeah.

02:44:36.000 That's not large.

02:44:38.000 If you have a micro dick, what, you're going to get an extra inch? 1.00

02:44:41.000 Oh, congratulations, now you have two inches. 1.00

02:44:42.000 It's mostly just for vein people. 0.99

02:44:44.000 It's not for micro dick people. 0.96

02:44:45.000 But then also they can take fat out of other parts of your body. 0.96

02:44:48.000 That's for the girth.

02:44:49.000 And then they'll put fat in around the edge. 0.99

02:44:51.000 Yeah, but then it's fat and smushy.

02:44:53.000 No one wants that.

02:44:54.000 Anyway, my point is simply this.

02:44:56.000 I wasn't intending to talk about... 1.00

02:44:58.000 About little dick dudes getting bigger dicks. 1.00

02:45:00.000 Poor bastards. 1.00

02:45:01.000 He said there's a maxim in medicine that you should never be either the first nor the last to adopt a new procedure. 1.00

02:45:08.000 Hmm, that's a good smart way to look at things.

02:45:09.000 That's my philosophy towards iPhones. 0.85

02:45:11.000 I have my philosophy on technology on the basis of penile enlargement surgery.

02:45:15.000 Well, I wait a little while, but I'm not the last person to adopt, but I'm probably like third.

02:45:22.000 I'm like in the third wave. 0.99

02:45:24.000 I'm not waiting in line for shit. 0.99

02:45:27.000 I'll tell you that right now. 1.00

02:45:28.000 I'm not waiting in line for a fucking phone. 0.99

02:45:30.000 Wait till they iron out the kinks, anyway. 1.00

02:45:32.000 Unless the phone does like holograms.

02:45:34.000 Unless you put the phone down, help me, Obi-Wan, you're my only hope.

02:45:36.000 Like... 1.00

02:45:38.000 Amy Schumer pops up and fucking dances for you. 1.00

02:45:41.000 Then I'll take it. 1.00

02:45:42.000 When that happens, you're going to then realize that you'll be one of the first adopters and then they'll realize it's radioactive and it gives you cancer and you'll die. 1.00

02:45:50.000 God damn it. 0.99

02:45:50.000 Turn your smartphone into a 3D hologram. 0.99

02:45:53.000 Is this real?

02:45:54.000 Oh my god.

02:45:55.000 This little piece of glass you stick on the top of your...

02:45:57.000 I just saw this the other day.

02:45:58.000 It just popped in my head. 1.00

02:45:59.000 What the fuck? 1.00

02:45:59.000 It makes a little hologram on your smartphone. 1.00

02:46:01.000 Seriously?

02:46:02.000 Yeah.

02:46:02.000 Just using glass and weight.

02:46:04.000 Well, we're really close to these new goggles that they're creating.

02:46:09.000 Right now, they look like ski goggles, but eventually they're going to be like sunglasses that are the new desktop.

02:46:16.000 That is incredible.

02:46:16.000 Look at that.

02:46:17.000 That's amazing.

02:46:17.000 That's cool.

02:46:18.000 What is it?

02:46:19.000 Magic Leap?

02:46:20.000 What is that technology?

02:46:22.000 What is it called?

02:46:23.000 Magic Leap?

02:46:24.000 They're going to have that technology, which is also like a hologram that you can hold in your hand.

02:46:28.000 I don't know exactly how that works, but there's another version of it.

02:46:31.000 Is it being fired out of your phone or what?

02:46:33.000 Or out of a laptop?

02:46:33.000 No, no.

02:46:34.000 They're being very secretive about it, and they've shown some demonstrations of it, but only the demonstration in the fact that you can see, like, there's a little girl that's watching a ballerina on her bed dancing around.

02:46:43.000 The ballerina's like four inches high. 1.00

02:46:45.000 It's incredible.

02:46:46.000 It just looks amazing.

02:46:47.000 Look at this.

02:46:48.000 Like, this is Magic Leap.

02:46:49.000 They don't explain it.

02:46:51.000 But that's gotta be...

02:46:53.000 This is not CGI. That's not a real thing, is it?

02:46:55.000 No, no, no, it's not CGI. We're looking at a little girl who's a couple of inches tall in the palm of someone's hand.

02:47:01.000 With a tinier puppy.

02:47:02.000 Like, look at this.

02:47:04.000 Somehow they're going to be able to broadcast holograms, and it's not done yet.

02:47:09.000 This is like some technology that's proof of concept, and it's in the middle of being developed.

02:47:14.000 But then there's another one that's similar but different.

02:47:18.000 What was the one, the Google one with the goggles, Jamie?

02:47:21.000 Do you remember that one?

02:47:22.000 Microsoft HoloLens.

02:47:23.000 That's it.

02:47:23.000 Yeah, sorry.

02:47:25.000 And the HoloLens is going to be able to change a room into a desktop.

02:47:28.000 Say like a video game that you're playing.

02:47:30.000 Say if you want to play Call of Duty.

02:47:32.000 You play Call of Duty in an empty room.

02:47:34.000 And the whole room will be the desktop.

02:47:36.000 And like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:47:37.000 They have demonstrations of that.

02:47:39.000 In three dimensions.

02:47:41.000 Like Minority Report, where you scroll.

02:47:44.000 And you'll be able to spin cubes around the air and hold them and pause them.

02:47:49.000 Like, look at this.

02:47:49.000 This is real.

02:47:51.000 This is how they're going to be able to do it.

02:47:52.000 Unbelievable.

02:47:52.000 You're going to be able to spread, pinch, walk around your house.

02:47:57.000 Right now, they're goofy.

02:47:59.000 They're these giant, huge ski goggles.

02:48:02.000 That is so exciting.

02:48:03.000 When you're actually going to be able to have three-dimensional interactivity...

02:48:08.000 Really?

02:48:19.000 Really?

02:48:22.000 Yeah.

02:48:26.000 We're good to go.

02:48:45.000 And it's showing the actual applications where you could use something for instructional purposes.

02:48:52.000 So it's just amazing.

02:48:53.000 And this is almost inevitable.

02:48:55.000 As crazy as what we were talking about before, we could send videos to other parts of the world and Skype instantaneously.

02:49:02.000 All this stuff is just next-level stuff.

02:49:04.000 And it's probably not that far off as well.

02:49:06.000 This isn't like in the distant future.

02:49:07.000 This is the kind of stuff that we're going to be using and dealing with probably in 10 years.

02:49:11.000 Yeah, look at what he just showed.

02:49:12.000 That was a 3D... A virtual reality version of the surface of Mars.

02:49:19.000 Back up a little bit more, Jamie, like, look at this.

02:49:21.000 That's real, too.

02:49:22.000 They're going to be able to send one of these rovers to Mars.

02:49:24.000 You're going to be able to walk around on Mars and see it as if it's really right there.

02:49:28.000 I tell you what will be a game-changer for virtual reality and three-dimensional stuff like this will be porn.

02:49:34.000 Totally a game-changer.

02:49:36.000 When you get a virtual reality headset and some kind of, like, bodysuit device that allows people to, like...

02:49:44.000 Feel.

02:49:45.000 Feel touches all your body.

02:49:46.000 Yeah, and actually some kind of, like, I don't know, you know, masturbation thing or something that fits on you, and then gets synced up to a virtual reality that actually looks not like a 3D robot human, but kind of like an actual plausible human being.

02:49:59.000 That is going to make so much money.

02:50:02.000 Yes.

02:50:03.000 Yeah, well, it's already happened.

02:50:05.000 They already have that, what is that technology called again, the one that Duncan's always raising?

02:50:08.000 Oculus Rift.

02:50:09.000 Oculus Rift. 0.99

02:50:10.000 They put the goggles on, they have first-person interactive porn, where you put your dick into, like, a machine, and the machine sort of strokes your dick, and you're having sex with someone in first person. 0.99

02:50:22.000 Yeah, they already have it. 1.00

02:50:23.000 It's crazy.

02:50:24.000 Not only that, it coincides, the movements coincide to a computer program that coincides with the action that you're seeing on screen.

02:50:29.000 Well, yeah, that's what you'd want, right?

02:50:30.000 You'd need it to actually feel...

02:50:32.000 I mean, the advances that are coming in all of that kind of stuff in the next decade are going to be mind-boggling.

02:50:37.000 Well, I think that goes back to what we're talking about, about future civilizations, that do these civilizations that exist out there in the cosmos, do they have radar?

02:50:46.000 Or have they transcended that, and have they gone into virtual?

02:50:49.000 Because I think, once we realize that virtual can be avatar, we can live inside some fantastic world that's so much more rewarding and exciting, and why bother with the regular carbon-based life world?

02:51:02.000 Why do we need everything to be real?

02:51:04.000 Why?

02:51:04.000 Because I can knock on this table.

02:51:07.000 Why is this table better than a table that I feel like I can knock on, but it's way better, and every time I touch it, it gives me love?

02:51:13.000 Well, this is the problem that's raised by the film The Matrix, isn't it?

02:51:17.000 I mean, it's become sort of a punchline of, like, blue pill, red pill, but it's actually a profound philosophical question.

02:51:22.000 Would you rather...

02:51:25.000 Do you prefer the tragedy of reality, knowing that it's actually true?

02:51:39.000 But then what does it mean to say that reality is actually true?

02:51:41.000 True or truer than a matrix would be.

02:51:44.000 Right, and why does everything that's real have to be real in only the way we understand it today?

02:51:51.000 It's just what we've become accustomed to.

02:51:54.000 And even our own real of today has become very bizarre.

02:51:57.000 Like the real of money.

02:51:59.000 The real of money used to be you had a leather sack filled with gold coins and you carried that around and someone could steal it from you.

02:52:05.000 Now it's Bitcoin and it's on your phone.

02:52:08.000 It's all just digits.

02:52:09.000 It's digits that have no relationship to anything.

02:52:11.000 I mean, it's preparing us for this inevitable, artificial, weird world of something that we have created.

02:52:17.000 And it's not even artificial.

02:52:19.000 It's just a new level of life.

02:52:21.000 It's a new thing.

02:52:22.000 I think that's a really good point, to point out that it's not artificial.

02:52:24.000 Because look at what we're doing right now.

02:52:27.000 We're having a conversation which is going through technology that a half century ago would have been inconceivable, which is being viewed by people...

02:52:34.000 We're good to go.

02:52:52.000 Absolutely.

02:52:52.000 And we're having a conversation that's fueled by this digital interface that we have in front of us that's allowing us to, in real time, get information in a way that was never possible just a couple of decades ago.

02:53:03.000 We can get all this information and we...

02:53:05.000 What was that, Jamie?

02:53:06.000 Boom.

02:53:06.000 He pulls it up.

02:53:07.000 Boom.

02:53:07.000 We see it up on the big screens.

02:53:09.000 We're living right now in the matrix.

02:53:11.000 We're living in, like, a baby matrix.

02:53:13.000 Do you think it matters, though, if...

02:53:15.000 I mean...

02:53:16.000 I have visions of people who just spend all their days in their basements, plugged into a virtual reality machine, with a drip in their arm providing them with sustenance, and just are off in this other universe of their own...

02:53:29.000 How different is that than people that are listening to this while they're playing video games and drinking Mountain Dew?

02:53:35.000 I mean, the idea that you have to live in the real world in order to be valid.

02:53:39.000 Like, why?

02:53:40.000 I mean, the only reason why is because we have needs.

02:53:43.000 We have needs for companionship and love and friendship, and it's good to go outside and smell the fresh air.

02:53:48.000 But when they figure out a way to make...

02:53:51.000 Oculus Rift, you put on a headset, and it's way better than regular fresh air.

02:53:54.000 I think you're onto something with companionship.

02:53:56.000 I think that gets to the nub of my concern about it, that as long as that person who's lying in their basement, plugged into an IV, and living in a virtual reality world is interacting with actual other human beings who are also in that virtual world, I have less of a problem with it.

02:54:10.000 But if he's interacting with avatars who aren't actual human beings, but who give him all of the feedback that we need from companionship, and he's living in a fake world where there is no reciprocation, I'm pretty confident that you actually have a consciousness.

02:54:23.000 You might be a robot, but I'm pretty confident that what we're actually doing here...

02:54:27.000 I might be in your imagination.

02:54:28.000 Yeah, you might be.

02:54:29.000 That's right.

02:54:29.000 You might be dreaming right now.

02:54:31.000 Yes.

02:54:32.000 But I'm pretty confident that you're a human being and that I am currently engaged in an actual conscious exchange.

02:54:39.000 Whereas if you were an avatar and I was in virtual reality, I think that would be a loss.

02:54:44.000 Well, you know the concept of simulation theory, I'm sure, right?

02:54:47.000 Yeah.

02:54:47.000 The concept being, for those who are not aware of it, is that one day we are going to, not we, because I'm dumb, but someone way smarter than us is going to figure out a way to create this sort of Oculus Rift thing, next level stuff that we're discussing right now, to a point where it's unrecognizable.

02:55:03.000 You can't tell the difference between this and reality.

02:55:06.000 It is inevitable.

02:55:07.000 They're going to eventually figure it out.

02:55:09.000 Just like the stuff that we're looking at right now is sort of the beginning stages of this inevitable technology that's going to transform If that's the case,

02:55:27.000 how do we know that we haven't already gotten there?

02:55:31.000 And why would they tell you?

02:55:33.000 If you are in a virtual reality, if you are in an artificial simulated version of the world we live in, And it's so good, you can't distinguish.

02:55:42.000 How do you know that it's not already happening?

02:55:44.000 How do you know it's not going on right now?

02:55:45.000 You don't.

02:55:46.000 And there's one mode of strand of logical argument in that philosophy which says that because...

02:55:54.000 We're probably likely to invent that kind of technology fairly early in the evolution of the human race, of our civilization.

02:56:02.000 If you think about the dinosaurs having lived for hundreds of millions of years, we've only been around for a few hundred thousand or something, then we're probably going to get to that point really soon.

02:56:10.000 Then this argument says it's very, very likely that we actually are in the simulation already because we've got hundreds of millions of years in the simulation and only maybe a hundred thousand years not in the simulation at the very, very dawn of our species.

02:56:23.000 So odds are...

02:56:25.000 We're probably already in it.

02:56:26.000 Which I don't really buy, but I think is a cute argument. 0.98

02:56:28.000 Suck on that, ladies and gentlemen. 1.00

02:56:30.000 That's the end of the podcast. 0.96

02:56:31.000 Thank you very much, Josh.

02:56:32.000 You're awesome.

02:56:33.000 And like I said, there's very few people that I would do a podcast immediately after landing from Brazil, but I always enjoy our conversations.

02:56:39.000 Check out WeThePeopleLive, WTPLive.com.

02:56:41.000 It's a good podcast.

02:56:42.000 And Twitter is WTP... Underscore live.

02:56:45.000 Or just send us an email.

02:56:46.000 Ampersand, hologram...

02:56:48.000 And then a dollar sign.

02:56:50.000 WTP underscore live dot com at Twitter.

02:56:54.000 And HuffPost Live, awesome show.

02:56:57.000 We could do a thousand of these, man.

02:56:59.000 I'd love it.

02:57:00.000 If I move to LA, we'll just do it every week.

02:57:02.000 Are you thinking about it?

02:57:03.000 It's possible. 1.00

02:57:04.000 Move, motherfucker! 1.00

02:57:06.000 Alright, ladies and gentlemen, we'll be back. 1.00

02:57:08.000 We'll be back soon.

02:57:10.000 I forget when.

02:57:11.000 But I got a lot of good guests this week.

02:57:13.000 Stay tuned, freaks.

02:57:15.000 Alright, see you soon.

02:57:15.000 Much love.

02:57:16.000 Big kiss to everybody.

02:57:30.000 you

The Joe Rogan Experience - August 03, 2015

Joe Rogan Experience #677 - Josh Zepps

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