The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #716 - Daniele Bolelli

00:00:00.000 And boom! 0.98

00:00:01.000 Daniele Bolelli, my friend!

00:00:04.000 Here we go.

00:00:05.000 Dude, I am loving, rather, I should say, your new podcast, History on Fire, and it's just wonderful to hear your sultry Italian accent waxing poetically on the path.

00:00:19.000 That's because I just never learned to speak English right.

00:00:23.000 But you do speak...

00:00:24.000 It's very confusing to me because you do speak perfect English.

00:00:27.000 You understand it.

00:00:28.000 You're very articulate.

00:00:29.000 Your choice of words is excellent.

00:00:31.000 Right.

00:00:31.000 But it comes out this way.

00:00:34.000 Like, how come I can do that, but you can't do that?

00:00:37.000 Can you try to talk like me?

00:00:38.000 You know, I... If you can believe it, I think I do.

00:00:42.000 Half of the time, I'm like, what do you think?

00:00:44.000 What accent?

00:00:45.000 I'm talking perfect English.

00:00:46.000 What are you talking about?

00:00:47.000 I have a horrible ear for accent.

00:00:50.000 I just don't hear it.

00:00:50.000 You don't hear it.

00:00:51.000 You know, when I hear my recording, then I go back, I'm like, Jesus Christ, I really speak like that? 1.00

00:00:55.000 Oh, fuck, no way. 0.99

00:00:57.000 But, you know, when I'm talking right now, I hear my own voice. 1.00

00:01:00.000 I'm like, no, perfect.

00:01:01.000 There's no accent.

00:01:02.000 That is one of the great things about doing a podcast, that it forces you to listen to yourself.

00:01:07.000 And you can learn a lot about how you sound.

00:01:10.000 You really can.

00:01:12.000 You learn a lot about little things you do.

00:01:15.000 Like, the word like.

00:01:17.000 That's one thing. 0.99

00:01:18.000 People say like fucking way too often. 0.99

00:01:20.000 A lot. 0.99

00:01:21.000 That's a real problem.

00:01:23.000 That word like. 0.98

00:01:24.000 Like, I've tried to shorten it or to eliminate it, but it fucking creeps its way in. 0.97

00:01:30.000 Like, you know, man, like, it's like this guy, like it. 0.95

00:01:34.000 Some people, and the problem is if I fixate on it, if I fixate on someone saying it, like, then it breaks me.

00:01:40.000 I had the same thing.

00:01:41.000 I was talking with some guy who was really smart, really brilliant, and kept saying, you know, every four words, right?

00:01:47.000 And after a while, I could not follow the conversation with him.

00:01:50.000 He was making great points, too, so I was missing out because every other sec was like, you know, it's like...

00:01:57.000 It's a tick.

00:01:59.000 It's a speech pattern.

00:02:02.000 It's basically a version of uh. 0.99

00:02:07.000 I've always said that's what people do with the word fuck sometimes. 1.00

00:02:10.000 It's a use of the word fuck. 1.00

00:02:12.000 This fucking guy with this fucking thing with the fucking... 1.00

00:02:14.000 Yeah, it's a filler. 1.00

00:02:16.000 It's a filler, yeah.

00:02:17.000 That's why I'm super impressed with people like Sam Harris that talk with no filler.

00:02:22.000 They just...

00:02:24.000 My brain doesn't work like that.

00:02:26.000 I'm always scrambling for certain words.

00:02:29.000 I wonder if my vocabulary was better.

00:02:33.000 Maybe I would be less likely to use fillers.

00:02:37.000 I don't know.

00:02:37.000 I think it's like during conversation sometimes you need that micro mental break to just see okay where do I want to go with next you know but you don't want to leave an awkward pose so you're like throwing something out there just go like okay this is where I want to go next.

00:02:51.000 Yeah and you also don't want someone to like Jump in thinking you want them to talk, and you're in the middle of trying to form the sentence, and if they do jump in, then you'll totally lose it.

00:03:02.000 So you want to, um, um, just to let them know.

00:03:05.000 I'm still here.

00:03:06.000 I'm still working on it.

00:03:08.000 Instead of just going, Yeah, exactly.

00:03:12.000 Italy is painful that way because, you know, normally you give two seconds, pause between somebody starting and somebody beginning the next conversation.

00:03:22.000 Italy, there's no pause.

00:03:23.000 Everybody's just there waiting for you to not stop, but slow down so that they can jump in.

00:03:29.000 And then you see people take a deep breath, kind of like...

00:03:31.000 It's like, Jesus, man.

00:03:35.000 It's a full contact sport, talking to somebody.

00:03:38.000 It's just...

00:03:38.000 What a language.

00:03:40.000 Your language is so poetic.

00:03:43.000 It's a flowing, beautiful language.

00:03:46.000 In fact, it's great for, you know, English language is awesome if you want to rule an empire, right?

00:03:51.000 It's like you tell people, do this, get stuff done.

00:03:54.000 You know, it's very to the point.

00:03:55.000 It's quick.

00:03:56.000 It's to the point.

00:03:57.000 It's great.

00:03:58.000 Italian is great for flowery, oh, sweetheart, look at the beautiful moon out there kind of thing.

00:04:03.000 Right.

00:04:05.000 10,000 words to really say something that could have been saying five, but, you know, it's the vibe that you create that...

00:04:12.000 Yeah, there's a lot of work, but it's flowing.

00:04:15.000 It's like wine and poetry.

00:04:17.000 It's like...

00:04:17.000 It's got this sort of...

00:04:20.000 Whereas American is just like, hey, what's up, fuckface? 1.00

00:04:24.000 When I was starting to write in English, it was so damn hard for me because I was so used to this long, flowy sentence that's like... 0.98

00:04:37.000 There was this rhythm, right?

00:04:39.000 Very musical.

00:04:40.000 And any sentence that I would write like that in English, I lose half of the readers within three seconds because they're like, too many words.

00:04:48.000 Get to the point.

00:04:48.000 What are you trying to say?

00:04:50.000 And so it's like... 0.99

00:04:51.000 And I thought, ah, English sucks. 0.98

00:04:53.000 There's no poetry to it. 0.99

00:04:54.000 In reality, there is.

00:04:55.000 You know, there are ways to express yourself beautifully, but it's different.

00:04:58.000 You need to definitely tone down the length of the sentence, cut it a little shorter.

00:05:03.000 There are ways to do it still in a beautiful way, but it's completely different.

00:05:08.000 What about the attention spans of people in Italy versus the people in America?

00:05:12.000 Because the Italian attention span seems to be much longer. 1.00

00:05:16.000 There is some of that.

00:05:46.000 Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but like a classical Italian meal in a restaurant, you would sit there for hours.

00:05:54.000 It's not like America where you're in and out in 40 minutes.

00:05:57.000 No, definitely.

00:05:59.000 Yeah, there's much more of this slow pace.

00:06:02.000 Tripping me out the other day, Aubrey Marcos gave me a call, and within about a minute I was thinking, And I love Aubrey, but the vibe for me was like, okay, great.

00:06:14.000 Hi, hi, what's up?

00:06:15.000 Now, what do you want?

00:06:17.000 And then I realized that he wasn't calling because he wanted anything.

00:06:20.000 He just wanted to say what's up and chat.

00:06:22.000 And I was like...

00:06:24.000 I forgot what it's like to be that way.

00:06:25.000 It's nice.

00:06:26.000 I like it.

00:06:27.000 You know, that's a good feeling where you just...

00:06:29.000 We are just talking because we like to talk to each other.

00:06:32.000 It's not like, hey, I need something or, you know...

00:06:34.000 I'm so used to that conversation now that everything is for a reason.

00:06:38.000 It's like we're trying to get stuff done.

00:06:42.000 And it was so refreshing.

00:06:44.000 I was feeling...

00:06:45.000 This is beautiful.

00:06:46.000 I love it.

00:06:46.000 I miss it.

00:06:48.000 That's how it should be.

00:06:49.000 It's nice if you can catch someone that's on the same vibe.

00:06:52.000 But when you're like, hey, man, everything good?

00:06:54.000 What's going on? 0.97

00:06:55.000 Yeah, yeah, I'm just getting some shit done. 0.96

00:06:57.000 What's going on? 0.95

00:06:57.000 What's up? 0.95

00:06:59.000 Nothing.

00:06:59.000 Just called to say hello.

00:07:01.000 It's like, okay, well, hi.

00:07:03.000 Bye.

00:07:03.000 See you later.

00:07:04.000 Click.

00:07:05.000 Gotta go.

00:07:05.000 I'm running an empire.

00:07:06.000 Running the empire of Mike.

00:07:08.000 And, I mean, we do have...

00:07:11.000 I don't know how it got that way, but we do have intense, busy lives.

00:07:13.000 So sometimes that organic, relaxed, let's hang out, let's let things transpire and play.

00:07:22.000 Half of the time, it's like, okay, it's noon.

00:07:24.000 At one, I need to be out of here.

00:07:26.000 This is my fun time.

00:07:27.000 So it's 12.15. 0.99

00:07:29.000 Motherfucker, I'm not having fun yet. 0.99

00:07:30.000 Make it fun right now because I need... 1.00

00:07:33.000 You can do that.

00:07:35.000 I was listening to this TED talk on the nature of happiness.

00:07:39.000 I forget the gentleman who was doing the speaking.

00:07:43.000 He had developed an app.

00:07:47.000 In the app, it would hit you with reminders and ask you questions like, what are you doing right now?

00:07:53.000 Are you enjoying what you're doing right now?

00:07:55.000 Is this what you want to do?

00:07:57.000 Things along those lines.

00:07:58.000 Then they would gather data.

00:08:00.000 So they added all their data from all the people that use the app, and one of the things they found was one of the least conducive things to happiness, one of the indicators that people are not happy, is when your mind is wandering.

00:08:12.000 Like, you're just sitting around, thinking of nothing, just sitting, doing nothing, and in those moments...

00:08:18.000 For whatever reason, people just don't feel good.

00:08:21.000 Right.

00:08:22.000 Their mind will wander to the negative things.

00:08:25.000 But when you're in the moment and you're occupied in something, whether you're creating something or whether you're writing something, whatever you're doing, those are the moments where people feel fulfilled and happy.

00:08:36.000 No, definitely.

00:08:37.000 And there's something to be said for meditation in that regard of learning to be in the moment when...

00:08:42.000 Because, you know, a lot of the times we can be in the moment when we're doing something.

00:08:46.000 But to be in the moment when you're not doing something, just like, let me take a deep breath.

00:08:51.000 Let's be here.

00:08:51.000 Let's look around.

00:08:52.000 That's not as easy to do as one would think.

00:08:55.000 Yeah, that's why a class, whether it's a martial arts class or a yoga class, is really good for people because someone's telling you what to do.

00:09:04.000 Like, okay, now we're going to work on arm bars from the mount.

00:09:07.000 Get to the mount.

00:09:08.000 Okay, shift your hips to the left, grab the arm, pin it down. 0.99

00:09:11.000 In going through those steps, you're forced to concentrate on that thing, and because it's so intense, you're forced to be in that moment.

00:09:19.000 And that, for a lot of people, is a real, not just the physical relief of exercise, which is fantastic for the mind, but the relief of focus and concentration alleviates a lot of the bullshit that builds up when the mind is wandering.

00:09:36.000 Big time.

00:09:37.000 I know this when I finally had a chance to start rolling again the last month or two.

00:09:44.000 I was just like, oh my god, I forgot.

00:09:47.000 Not only physically, as you say, how good it feels, but in that moment, you know, if your mind wanders too much, the guy's choking you, the guy's arm barring you.

00:09:54.000 You can't wander.

00:09:55.000 You have to be totally present in what you're doing.

00:09:59.000 And it It's just such a mental break that I thought I had all these issues when I walk into class and I walk out.

00:10:05.000 I'm like, huh, those problems?

00:10:07.000 You call those problems?

00:10:08.000 That's a joke.

00:10:08.000 Come on, no big deal.

00:10:09.000 Because suddenly you have lightened up.

00:10:11.000 You got rid of this heavy load that you're carrying.

00:10:14.000 And there's nothing like it, you know, something that puts you in the moment, but also your body.

00:10:19.000 Puts your body, your mind, everything.

00:10:21.000 Yeah.

00:10:21.000 The gift of perspective.

00:10:23.000 And some people get it from running.

00:10:25.000 I know some people, they just love running hills especially because it's just so difficult.

00:10:32.000 And then when you reach the top of that hill, you have a milestone.

00:10:36.000 You hit that milestone, you get to that hill.

00:10:39.000 And just whatever it is, that effort of doing that, which is very intense, very difficult, just...

00:10:45.000 And when it's over, just everything else seems like relaxed.

00:10:50.000 Big time.

00:10:51.000 Even weights.

00:10:52.000 Yeah.

00:10:52.000 Weights feel awesome.

00:10:53.000 Sure.

00:10:53.000 Anything.

00:10:54.000 Anything.

00:10:55.000 Just do something that you have to concentrate on.

00:10:58.000 If you're lifting something heavy, like if you're trying to bench press or squat or something like that, while you're doing that, that is what you're concentrating on.

00:11:06.000 Isn't that amazing, though, that that's what the mind needs sometimes?

00:11:09.000 Just one primary, singular thing to focus on, and to focus on it intensely, and it's almost cleansing in a way.

00:11:16.000 It forces the pipes free.

00:11:18.000 Yeah, it's kind of like when you're having sex for too long and then you'd wait and suddenly everything in your brain switches. 0.97

00:11:28.000 All this shit that I thought I had on me, all this tension, all this stuff that I thought were real problems, you just haven't had sex for too many days either, right? 0.99

00:11:35.000 Oh, haven't had sex for a long time. 0.99

00:11:37.000 Yeah, if you will.

00:11:38.000 I thought you were saying you've had sex for too long. 1.00

00:11:40.000 I was like, man, what kind of fucking is Daniel Bolleri doing? 1.00

00:11:44.000 There is no such a thing. 0.99

00:11:45.000 He's doing some sessions, some session work.

00:11:48.000 Marathon. 0.98

00:11:50.000 Yeah, that could fuck people up, man. 1.00

00:11:53.000 I mean, I, to this day, think that that is, especially for men, the primary reason why a lot of men exhibit, like, really pathetic behavior. 0.98

00:12:04.000 Because they are trying so hard to get women to like them, and nothing is working, and so they have fallen into this trap of becoming this, like, She-male thing. 0.74

00:12:15.000 This super feminist sort of always identifying with women's issues and trying to get women on your side. 1.00

00:12:24.000 It doesn't fucking work. 0.98

00:12:26.000 Dave Rubin, a guy who was on the podcast the other day, by the way, great guy and great podcast. 0.98

00:12:32.000 I had a great time with him. 0.83

00:12:33.000 But he tweeted something the other day, and it was a billboard that some poor fool had put up, and it said, Dear women, on behalf of all men, I'm sorry. 0.95

00:12:43.000 Oh, Jesus. 0.97

00:12:44.000 Right.

00:12:46.000 The PS to that would be, I'm really trying to get laid.

00:12:49.000 Really trying.

00:12:50.000 Please.

00:12:50.000 So hard.

00:12:51.000 Can you help me with that? 1.00

00:12:52.000 Just someone touch my dick. 1.00

00:12:53.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:12:53.000 Please. 1.00

00:12:54.000 That would have been more honest here to just put that on the billboard.

00:12:57.000 It's like, with the number at the end.

00:12:58.000 It's like, oh, poor guy.

00:12:59.000 I get it, you know. 0.98

00:13:00.000 It's Not that there's anything wrong with siding with women if you agree that they've been fucked over or looking out for them or sympathizing or empathizing. 0.97

00:13:14.000 That's not the point. 0.94

00:13:16.000 It's just the behavior.

00:13:18.000 It's also an anti-masculine behavior, an anti-male behavior.

00:13:23.000 Maybe it's because they identify those characteristics with bullies or with people that were mean to them or people that caused them pain or frustration.

00:13:33.000 But it's also like this, it's traitorous.

00:13:36.000 You know what I mean? 0.97

00:13:37.000 It's like you're a gender traitor, like in some ways. 1.00

00:13:41.000 And to me, there's that bullshit dichotomy there where you either have the tough, strong, macho asshole who also kind of doesn't care about anybody's feelings, but you're strong. 1.00

00:13:52.000 That's the good side. 1.00

00:13:53.000 Or you have the sweet, mellow, sensitive, but if you say boo, then you go hide in a corner. 1.00

00:13:59.000 And it's like both models suck. 0.99

00:14:01.000 Neither one is a desirable way to be. 0.99

00:14:03.000 Yeah. 0.92

00:14:04.000 And the problem is that in trying to get rid of the asshole male side, people have also gotten rid of the good stuff about being a man, about the strength, the determination, the stereotypical masculine quality. 0.97

00:14:15.000 And it's like, that's not what we're trying to get rid of. 0.98

00:14:17.000 That's the good stuff.

00:14:18.000 You want to keep that.

00:14:19.000 You want to get rid of the... 0.99

00:14:22.000 1700s, gender role, I'm the man, I'll slap you around, go back in the kitchen kind of thing. 1.00

00:14:26.000 Yeah, I can see how that would be less than ideal, but getting rid of that doesn't mean getting rid of the good stuff at all.

00:14:34.000 Exactly.

00:14:35.000 Have you heard the term toxic masculinity?

00:14:38.000 No.

00:14:38.000 That's an adorable term.

00:14:39.000 That social justice warriors will throw around toxic masculinity. 1.00

00:14:44.000 The real problem with men adopting this idea is that they ignore the negative things that women have done.

00:14:52.000 Because it's not about women.

00:14:54.000 It's not about men.

00:14:54.000 It's about nice people.

00:14:56.000 That's really what it is. 0.99

00:14:57.000 I mean, there's feminine qualities that are beautiful and there's male masculine qualities that are beautiful and there's There's people on both sides that are out of their fucking mind and batshit crazy. 0.90

00:15:09.000 And to side with women on every occasion just because you're a man, you're saying, I'm sorry for all men before me and my apologies. 1.00

00:15:16.000 That's weak shit. 1.00

00:15:17.000 You know what you're doing. 1.00

00:15:18.000 You need to run hills.

00:15:19.000 You need to go to class.

00:15:21.000 You need to take a yoga class.

00:15:22.000 Do something.

00:15:23.000 And get laid. 0.86

00:15:24.000 Get laid. 0.96

00:15:24.000 Get someone to touch you. 0.96

00:15:25.000 And it's funny because when you don't come from a place of need, suddenly women like you ten times as much as before. 0.63

00:15:33.000 There was a period where I did not...

00:15:35.000 I wasn't running anymore on the typical scripts that I've had for most of my life where it's like, hot woman, I want your attention.

00:15:42.000 Look at me.

00:15:42.000 I'm great.

00:15:43.000 Because I want something from you.

00:15:45.000 There was a period where...

00:15:48.000 Things happen in a way where I didn't care.

00:15:50.000 I was just like, if we hang out, I hang out because I'm happy to, but I don't want, yeah, you're a beautiful one, that's great, but I don't want anything from you.

00:15:57.000 And of course, the second that my brain switched away, suddenly we meant like 10 times more than before.

00:16:02.000 And he was like, look at how that works.

00:16:04.000 That's amazing.

00:16:05.000 Isn't it?

00:16:06.000 But there's something about being comfortable in your own skin and just not constantly acting because you're trying to impress somebody or you want somebody to, whether it's sex, whether it's attention, whatever that may be, because you want something from them.

00:16:21.000 It's like...

00:16:22.000 This is who I am.

00:16:23.000 You dig it, you dig it, you don't, you don't.

00:16:25.000 I'm still comfortable with who I am.

00:16:27.000 That makes such a difference in the way people will relate to you.

00:16:30.000 I think also that regardless of the words that you choose and the way that you say them and the sentences that you structure, I think people can feel intent and there's something about it.

00:16:43.000 There's an intangible quality to a needy person that even if they do say the right things and do it in the right order...

00:16:50.000 Some women or some men are like, not this dude.

00:16:55.000 That's why you can read all the books in the world about the stuff you should say, but that's barely half of the game.

00:17:04.000 It's who you are.

00:17:05.000 It's not what you say, what the image you put.

00:17:07.000 Even because it's painful, you have to constantly keep up this image that's not really you, and you have to say all the right things.

00:17:13.000 It's like... 1.00

00:17:14.000 Fuck, life is too short for that. 1.00

00:17:16.000 Have you ever paid attention at all to pickup artists? 1.00

00:17:18.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:17:19.000 And pickup artist game?

00:17:21.000 Yeah.

00:17:21.000 They're like...

00:17:22.000 They'll judge...

00:17:24.000 It's hilarious.

00:17:24.000 I've seen some videos online where they're actually critiquing people's approaches and strategies for getting women to talk to them.

00:17:32.000 There's like videos on it where a guy will have a hidden camera and he'll talk to a girl and like then the guys in the comments will be like, interesting, like opening, great game, I like how he's doing this.

00:17:42.000 Like they have like...

00:17:43.000 Like, moves.

00:17:44.000 Like, it's talking about, like, jujitsu or something.

00:17:46.000 Or chess.

00:17:46.000 The way you lean to the right.

00:17:48.000 Yes!

00:17:48.000 Talking to her.

00:17:49.000 That's, like, too much.

00:17:51.000 But it's not real.

00:17:52.000 That's what's crazy about it. 1.00

00:17:54.000 I mean, I guess it will work on, like, some really fucking dumb girls. 1.00

00:17:57.000 That's how, like, girls will find out, like... 1.00

00:17:59.000 Deep into a relationship, like months later, that the guy's heavily in debt and wanted by the FBI and beats his mom. 0.98

00:18:06.000 You don't find that shit out because the guy tricked you with all this strategy. 0.95

00:18:12.000 And if you can't read that, then you're not going to know that something's going on. 0.99

00:18:16.000 That, to me, is if you have a really bad radar and you can't get vibes out of people, then you are dependent on what they say.

00:18:23.000 Some people have bad radar.

00:18:25.000 But what they say is a smokescreen.

00:18:26.000 You know what they say?

00:18:27.000 Maybe real, maybe not.

00:18:29.000 People put on a show all the time.

00:18:31.000 To me, it's like, really, you didn't feel sitting next to the guy for 35 seconds that the guy is a freak or that woman is evil.

00:18:37.000 Yeah.

00:18:38.000 Man, you feel it.

00:18:39.000 It's not what they say.

00:18:40.000 But it's hard.

00:18:41.000 It's hard to have sovereignty.

00:18:43.000 It's hard to have personal sovereignty.

00:18:45.000 It's hard to be at a place where you don't need anybody.

00:18:48.000 Or you're not needy. 0.99

00:18:49.000 Or when you're around a beautiful girl where you don't give a fuck. 0.99

00:18:52.000 That's hard, man. 0.99

00:18:53.000 It's hard.

00:18:54.000 Most men, I would say like 99% of men, when they're around a really beautiful girl...

00:19:00.000 They just panic. 1.00

00:19:02.000 Even if there's no chance that girl's going to fuck you, your behavior alters. 1.00

00:19:07.000 It gets weird. 0.99

00:19:08.000 My solution to that is illegal in 49 and a half state, but I think that going to 49 and a half...

00:19:15.000 Because it's legal in rural counties in Nevada. 0.86

00:19:18.000 But going to insanely hot hookers calm people down. 1.00

00:19:22.000 For a man's standpoint, it would be like, okay, if I want to get laid with an insanely hot woman, I can. 1.00

00:19:27.000 Yeah.

00:19:28.000 You've done the money.

00:19:28.000 Go.

00:19:29.000 You're nice to them.

00:19:29.000 They're nice to you.

00:19:30.000 Done.

00:19:31.000 So if you do that, then in the back of your brain, it's not like every time you see a hot woman, it's like, I want this. 0.87

00:19:36.000 It's like, I can't get this any other time in another way if you don't have game and you can't get laid in other ways.

00:19:41.000 At least you go to the nice, friendly hooker, you get laid with hot women, then hot women don't immediately trigger... 1.00

00:19:48.000 I need something from you. 0.99

00:19:49.000 It's like, oh, you're another hot woman. 1.00

00:19:51.000 I was having sex with a hot woman yesterday. 1.00

00:19:53.000 So what? 0.98

00:19:53.000 You know, it doesn't have that same pressure to it. 0.98

00:19:56.000 So I have a vague feeling that I'm not going to get a TV program and a Dr. Phil recommended. 0.99

00:20:02.000 Just go to hookers. 1.00

00:20:03.000 It will make your life better. 1.00

00:20:05.000 But that's my take.

00:20:06.000 Well, I'll tell you right now, that is the wrong approach.

00:20:10.000 It ain't about the woman being hot. 0.99

00:20:13.000 It's about love, sir.

00:20:16.000 Sir.

00:20:18.000 God, my right ball just dropped by my ankle. 1.00

00:20:20.000 Your balls, they'll rot if you hear that long enough. 1.00

00:20:23.000 They gangrene, they fall right off. 1.00

00:20:25.000 Yeah, I think that the idea of going to a hooker in America is a disgusting idea. 1.00

00:20:32.000 Like, that's how we look at it as our culture. 0.98

00:20:34.000 You know, our culture looks at prostitution as something foul.

00:20:38.000 And you and I both have daughters. 0.87

00:20:40.000 We don't want our daughters to become prostitutes. 1.00

00:20:42.000 Sure. 0.95

00:20:43.000 If, you know, if somebody else's daughter wants to do it...

00:20:48.000 What else is wrong to say?

00:20:50.000 It's how you are... 0.99

00:20:52.000 There are cases where somebody becomes a hooker because their life sucks, they are on meth, they are this and that. 0.99

00:20:59.000 That's clearly not... 0.99

00:20:59.000 But I've... 0.99

00:21:01.000 I know women who did become sex workers who speak multiple languages, graduated from UCLA. They have jobs. 0.93

00:21:09.000 They have money.

00:21:11.000 And their ways, they have the power in the exchange because the way they are going to play it is that they consider it kind of like dating except that I pick my clients.

00:21:19.000 So it's like I'm sleeping around a lot, but I get paid bank for doing that.

00:21:24.000 Right.

00:21:24.000 And that's a whole different kind, you know, not all prostitution is the same.

00:21:28.000 That's a whole different game.

00:21:29.000 That's somebody who comes from a position where they are in power rather than the typical, you know, straight hooker kind of thing. 1.00

00:21:35.000 That's a whole different game. 0.54

00:21:36.000 Yeah, I've met girls that have done that, that have actually, like, had, like, wealthy men that they've had sex with. 0.98

00:21:44.000 And then they only had a few of them, and they fucked them a couple times a month, and that was how they made all their money. 0.97

00:21:50.000 Right. 0.96

00:21:51.000 But they didn't take other clients on.

00:21:53.000 And I was like, that is just weird.

00:21:55.000 But why is it weird?

00:21:57.000 Because when you look at a really hot woman, like the Donald Sterling situation, that old troll-looking raisin man, and he had that girl, the one that ratted him out and made those recordings...

00:22:12.000 She was hot. 1.00

00:22:13.000 She was young and hot with a nice body. 1.00

00:22:16.000 What do we think is going on there?

00:22:18.000 Why do we think he bought her a multi-million dollar condo and a Bentley and all that?

00:22:23.000 Is it okay to just buy people so you can exchange gold coins?

00:22:27.000 Can you exchange gold coins just not paper?

00:22:29.000 How's that work? 0.97

00:22:30.000 It's ridiculous. 0.51

00:22:31.000 Can you buy someone a house you just can't give them cash? 0.94

00:22:34.000 It's weird.

00:22:35.000 Why is the exchange...

00:22:37.000 When the exchange is actual money, not something you can convert to money, but the actual money itself, it becomes an issue.

00:22:43.000 Prostitution exists across the board in many, many relationships. 0.97

00:22:48.000 I have friends that are married to prostitutes. 1.00

00:22:51.000 They really are. 0.99

00:22:52.000 They just happen to be monogamous prostitutes. 1.00

00:22:54.000 They're monogamous prostitutes, but these guys are wealthy guys, and these women that they're dating really don't even particularly like them.

00:23:01.000 They have to buy them things all the time, and they have to constantly keep the fires of this style of relationship lit.

00:23:09.000 That I find weird.

00:23:10.000 Isn't it easier to just pay for a cold girl, go there each time? 0.99

00:23:14.000 It is, but then, you know...

00:23:15.000 The problem is people want companionship.

00:23:18.000 They want someone to be there for them.

00:23:20.000 Yeah, but you're not gonna get it by paying somebody for that.

00:23:22.000 No.

00:23:24.000 Sometimes it works.

00:23:25.000 Yeah?

00:23:25.000 I don't know.

00:23:26.000 It's like saying it can never work.

00:23:29.000 I just think that a lot of people would be way better off, a lot of people, if sex wasn't such a big deal.

00:23:38.000 Yep.

00:23:38.000 And I think that is a big part of what's going on.

00:23:41.000 Part of what's going on with campuses where they have this massive amount of attention that's being paid to sexual assault is very good in a lot of ways.

00:23:52.000 Because sexual assault, actual real sexual assault is horrific. 1.00

00:23:55.000 Yeah, it's fucked up. 1.00

00:23:56.000 It's disgusting. 1.00

00:23:56.000 It's fucked up. 1.00

00:23:58.000 And the idea that my son could do it or that I could have done it when I was young is terrifying to me and disgusting to me. 1.00

00:24:05.000 But, equally true, the idea of someone being accused of sexual assault, where it really was just regret.

00:24:14.000 There's a lot of people that are trying to say that if two people get drunk and they have sex, then somehow or another that's rape.

00:24:23.000 It's just people having sex.

00:24:25.000 There's no violence.

00:24:27.000 There's no forcing.

00:24:29.000 That's crazy talk.

00:24:33.000 A lot of that comes from the idea, these puritanical ideas, that sex is somehow a bad thing. 0.99

00:24:38.000 Because if two people got together and they got drunk and just cuddled, no one gives a shit. 0.99

00:24:43.000 Yeah, that's fine. 0.99

00:24:43.000 But suddenly there's penetration. 0.99

00:24:47.000 Where does it end? 0.94

00:24:48.000 What if you just cuddle and you both have shorts on and a t-shirt and the guy gets a boner?

00:24:53.000 What happens there?

00:24:54.000 Is that bad?

00:24:56.000 What if you're cuddling and the guy and the girl don't have shirts on but they have their pants on? 0.99

00:25:02.000 What the fuck are we doing? 0.97

00:25:04.000 If they're drunk and they hug, everyone's okay. 1.00

00:25:08.000 But if they're drunk and they fuck, it's a real problem. 1.00

00:25:11.000 Right. 0.99

00:25:11.000 If someone says no and the other person forces them, then it's a problem. 0.99

00:25:16.000 Sure, that's right, of course. 0.99

00:25:17.000 But if it's just two people that drink and then do something and the other person wakes up in the morning and goes, I can't believe I fucked that guy. 1.00

00:25:24.000 Shit! 1.00

00:25:24.000 And then their friend says, oh my god, were you drunk? 1.00

00:25:26.000 Well, you could not consent.

00:25:28.000 That is rape! 1.00

00:25:29.000 It's not rape! 1.00

00:25:30.000 He was drunk too.

00:25:31.000 Right.

00:25:31.000 There was this...

00:25:33.000 I forget what the protest was, but these guys had these signs that said, regret is not rape. 0.98

00:25:39.000 And there was this fucking terrible backlash, but that is what it is. 0.97

00:25:44.000 It's regret. 0.99

00:25:45.000 Whatever happened to fucking up? 0.88

00:25:47.000 Whatever ever happened to making mistakes? 0.99

00:25:49.000 And also, why is it that one gender gets a get-out-of-jail-free card, like you got raped, whereas every guy that I've ever met We're good to go. 0.98

00:26:19.000 But then, of course, you get into this Bill Cosby territory where a guy is purposely getting someone drunk or purposely getting someone fucked up. 0.96

00:26:29.000 Well, of course, that's where it gets weird, right?

00:26:32.000 That's where it all turns into an actual crime or an actual negative interaction.

00:26:42.000 Verifiable, bona fide, you know, assault.

00:26:45.000 Yeah, that's different, even because the intent is different.

00:26:47.000 It's not like you're both drunk once you get to another.

00:26:49.000 Okay, whatever.

00:26:50.000 That's one story.

00:26:51.000 That one is, I'm trying to get you to a vulnerable position because I want to take something from you that you don't want to give.

00:26:57.000 Yeah, and I'm coercing you and being sneaky about it.

00:27:01.000 Yeah, that's a different story.

00:27:02.000 Yeah, that's a dark thing that it happens.

00:27:06.000 It happens to a lot of women, man. 1.00

00:27:07.000 A lot.

00:27:08.000 I've talked to several women who have been roofied. 1.00

00:27:12.000 That's so fucked up. 0.99

00:27:14.000 When I was in high school, I had once, there was this pretty hot girl who was just passed out drunk, and there was two guys at the party who were clearly just moving in in that direction. 0.99

00:27:24.000 They were clear and obvious about what was going on.

00:27:27.000 That was like There was no ambiguity there. 0.99

00:27:29.000 It's like, that is, you're trying to rape somebody. 0.97

00:27:31.000 That's not...

00:27:32.000 So I remember just, I had my good Samaritan day of my life where I just kind of picked her up, walked her outside, help her throw up, and all the whole...

00:27:41.000 Because I was like, no, this is a bad scenario right here.

00:27:45.000 This is not a pleasant one.

00:27:47.000 And it's not, again, the one where everybody's drunk and it's different, there's no intent.

00:27:51.000 This is somebody who say, oh, vulnerability, I'm going after that.

00:27:55.000 I wonder if anyone's ever done a study on places that have legalized prostitution, where there are more or less sexual assaults.

00:28:02.000 From what I remember, and I do believe I've seen studies about it, I think it was less.

00:28:08.000 Jamie?

00:28:10.000 Head to Google.

00:28:11.000 Yes.

00:28:12.000 Yeah, I would assume that when it's not something that's almost impossible to attain.

00:28:18.000 Because you think about it like the average guy who makes a good living, you know, maybe occasionally you could afford to spend $500 on a prostitute or whatever the hell it costs, but...

00:28:30.000 The idea of getting that prostitute to be in a sexual relationship with you voluntarily is almost out of the question. 0.97

00:28:36.000 Right. 1.00

00:28:37.000 But if you're a goofy-looking dude, you can pay that girl, and she'll fuck you, and the weight of that exchange has sort of been lifted. 1.00

00:28:45.000 I mean, there's a potential that you could get addicted to going to prostitutes, but you can get addicted to going to a pool hall. 1.00

00:28:52.000 Of course.

00:28:52.000 Do anything.

00:28:53.000 You can get addicted to swimming. 0.99

00:28:55.000 I know people, every morning they get up and they fucking swim. 0.99

00:28:58.000 They have to swim. 0.99

00:28:59.000 I didn't swim today.

00:29:01.000 And if you have the money, there was a Don Winslow novel.

00:29:05.000 I don't know if you ever read that guy.

00:29:06.000 He's a master writer.

00:29:08.000 Don Winslow?

00:29:08.000 Yeah.

00:29:09.000 A lot of thrillers.

00:29:10.000 Really good writer.

00:29:11.000 Never heard of him, actually.

00:29:12.000 If I have, I forgot.

00:29:13.000 He's the guy who did the movie Savages.

00:29:16.000 What is it?

00:29:17.000 Savages.

00:29:17.000 The Oliver Stone movie, I believe.

00:29:19.000 Oh, yeah.

00:29:21.000 That was based on a Don Winslow novel.

00:29:23.000 Was that a good movie?

00:29:24.000 I haven't seen it, to be honest.

00:29:25.000 I read the book.

00:29:26.000 The book was good.

00:29:27.000 The movie, I didn't hear anything that made me want to see it.

00:29:30.000 So I was like, eh, I'll pass.

00:29:31.000 But the guy is a good writer.

00:29:33.000 He has this one line at one point.

00:29:34.000 I forgot which novel it is.

00:29:35.000 But he has this line where one guy is like, you know, she's only with you because of your money.

00:29:40.000 And the other dude is like, well, good thing I have money then.

00:29:45.000 I thought it was awesome.

00:29:47.000 Okay.

00:29:49.000 Yeah, what does that mean?

00:29:50.000 She's only with you because of this.

00:29:53.000 Well, whatever. 1.00

00:29:54.000 She's only with you because of your big dick and your broad shoulders. 1.00

00:29:57.000 Shut up, stupid. 1.00

00:29:58.000 I'm glad I had that. 1.00

00:29:59.000 Good.

00:30:00.000 We're done.

00:30:01.000 What does that mean?

00:30:02.000 She's only with you because you're more attractive and more intelligent and more successful than me.

00:30:07.000 Oh. 0.98

00:30:07.000 Okay, well that just diminished me to the point where I can no longer enjoy the sexual favors of this young lady. 0.98

00:30:14.000 Exactly.

00:30:14.000 What does it mean?

00:30:17.000 People that try to diminish you.

00:30:18.000 You're only because of this.

00:30:20.000 Well, and about this stuff that we're talking about, the sex work, I find it hilarious when people look down on it, kind of like, oh my god, I don't I'm like, do you work the job you have?

00:30:34.000 Is that a job that you would have if nobody pays you?

00:30:36.000 Would you do that same stuff anyway?

00:30:38.000 And 99% of people would say, no, it's because I want to get paid. 0.97

00:30:42.000 So explain to me exactly how you're different from a hooker. 1.00

00:30:46.000 Embrace your inner hooker, man. 1.00

00:30:47.000 You're doing it for the money. 1.00

00:30:48.000 That's where it's at. 1.00

00:30:49.000 Embrace your inner hooker. 1.00

00:30:50.000 Yes. 0.98

00:30:51.000 Researchers decriminalized prostitution in Rhode Island led to fewer rape and fewer gonorrhea cases.

00:30:56.000 My point.

00:30:57.000 But that's not even legal.

00:30:58.000 That's just decriminalized.

00:31:00.000 So that means you can't get arrested for it.

00:31:03.000 I was finding stuff on both ends of it, actually.

00:31:06.000 Really?

00:31:06.000 What's that?

00:31:07.000 I was finding articles on both ends.

00:31:09.000 What do you mean by that?

00:31:10.000 It was going up and down.

00:31:11.000 There's people saying both.

00:31:13.000 Classic.

00:31:13.000 The statistics clearly show that it increases.

00:31:16.000 No, the statistics clearly show that it decreases.

00:31:18.000 That kind of stuff.

00:31:19.000 Yeah, there's studies for whichever side you really want to pick, really.

00:31:23.000 It's like the Bible.

00:31:24.000 You see, decriminalized, though, is not legalized.

00:31:27.000 What you want is a nice brothel. 1.00

00:31:29.000 Nice and clean, like a beautiful establishment, like a Burke-Williams spa.

00:31:38.000 Burke-Williams of Hooker.

00:31:41.000 Burke-Williams of Hooker.

00:31:42.000 You know, if you go to a Burke Williams spa, they give you a glass of water with lemon in it.

00:31:47.000 It's nice and they have the chimes going and the incense.

00:31:52.000 You walk in there, scented candles.

00:31:54.000 Ah, they give you a nice massage. 0.99

00:31:55.000 But, you know, they're not supposed to have sex with you. 0.99

00:31:58.000 See, that's a problem. 0.99

00:32:00.000 But if you can go to one of those places and they had sex with you, you'd be like, what a great exchange. 0.99

00:32:04.000 I know. 0.99

00:32:05.000 Perfect.

00:32:05.000 I'm nice to you.

00:32:06.000 You've got a bunch of money.

00:32:07.000 You're nice to me.

00:32:08.000 Everybody wins.

00:32:09.000 It's puritanical.

00:32:11.000 It totally is.

00:32:11.000 Because if you really break it down, why would it be illegal to do something that you can do for free?

00:32:17.000 If you can do it for money, why...

00:32:19.000 I mean, if you can do it for free, why can't you do it for money?

00:32:22.000 Because everything else you can do, like massage.

00:32:24.000 You can give people foot massages all day.

00:32:27.000 Exactly.

00:32:27.000 But if it's a sexual thing, suddenly it's illegal and it's terrible.

00:32:31.000 I find it hilarious.

00:32:32.000 This is... 0.99

00:32:34.000 Puritanical, religious crap that we carry with us from, you know, another time and it's just still around in people's mentality. 1.00

00:32:41.000 Because when you think about it, I think it's complete bullshit. 1.00

00:32:44.000 It warps our minds, too. 1.00

00:32:46.000 Because it turns sex into some forbidden, dirty act. 0.96

00:32:49.000 Yep, yep, yep. 0.98

00:32:50.000 You know, I don't know.

00:32:51.000 It's...

00:32:52.000 The whole, like...

00:32:56.000 The pattern of it is very difficult to break, though.

00:33:00.000 I mean, I think they broke it somewhat in the 60s, you know, Summer of Love, but they were all on acid.

00:33:07.000 That helps.

00:33:09.000 That definitely helps.

00:33:10.000 I mean, that is what acid does.

00:33:13.000 That's what mushrooms do. 0.99

00:33:14.000 That's what DMT does.

00:33:16.000 That paradigm-shifting reset button where you go, oh, why am I doing it this way?

00:33:22.000 Why am I new?

00:33:23.000 That's where all those songs like Love the One You're With came from.

00:33:28.000 It was a free love generation.

00:33:29.000 It was different, right?

00:33:31.000 Isn't that interesting?

00:33:32.000 That's all it took.

00:33:33.000 Just a little bit of drugs and people went from Father Knows Best to Love the One You're With inside of 10 years.

00:33:40.000 1960s are a trippy time, right?

00:33:41.000 Even just music-wise.

00:33:43.000 You listen to what people were listening to in 1961 and what they were listening to by 1968 and it feels like 300 years have gone by.

00:33:51.000 It's such a nice night and day kind of thing.

00:33:54.000 They are like, how did that even happen in that little period of time?

00:33:58.000 It's, you know, you go from your mellow Motown to Jimi Hendrix.

00:34:04.000 Yeah.

00:34:05.000 It doesn't even sound remotely closed.

00:34:07.000 Everything, the clothes?

00:34:09.000 They start wearing bandanas and bell bottoms and freaky vests and shirts with flowers on them. 0.97

00:34:16.000 Like the whole thing just fucking completely flipped on his head. 0.89

00:34:19.000 Just some drugs. 0.96

00:34:22.000 That's what people don't really, truly comprehend.

00:34:25.000 And I didn't truly comprehend until I got older.

00:34:28.000 Because when I was a kid and I was in school...

00:34:31.000 Okay, I graduated from school in 1985. That's when I graduated from high school.

00:34:37.000 And if you stop and think about that, 20 years before that was the height of all that freaky shit. 0.99

00:34:44.000 It was alive and popping in 1965. That's like... 0.99

00:34:51.000 That's not that long ago, man.

00:34:52.000 That's 1995 to us.

00:34:54.000 Like, 1995 seems like just a few years ago.

00:34:58.000 To think about 1995 just being freaks and hippies and Woodstock and chaos, and then the government just threw water on the whole thing.

00:35:08.000 Put that fire out! 0.99

00:35:09.000 And everything calmed down in the 70s, and in the 80s they gave everybody Coke, and then Miami Vice, and Don Johnson didn't have any socks on.

00:35:16.000 He's driving around a little...

00:35:18.000 Ferrari Testarossa.

00:35:19.000 And it all sort of got to this different place.

00:35:23.000 Like they took the drugs out of the equation and there was this big void and no one knew what to do.

00:35:28.000 And it just sort of like had this chaotic bouncing against the wall thing where it was trying to find its equilibrium and find its harmonious vibration to get back to where it would have been.

00:35:38.000 But inexorably altered.

00:35:40.000 Because of this one decade.

00:35:42.000 Big time.

00:35:43.000 I mean, even the drugs.

00:35:44.000 It's not like in the 80s people weren't doing drugs, but nastier drugs.

00:35:47.000 You go from psychedelics to hard stuff.

00:35:50.000 Crack! 0.98

00:35:52.000 We're not talking the same drugs here.

00:35:54.000 It's a very different kind of game.

00:35:56.000 Amazing!

00:35:57.000 It's really amazing when you get older and you realize that 10 years is nothing.

00:36:02.000 It's such a, like, 10 years ago was 2005. That is exactly like today.

00:36:08.000 What is the difference between 2005 and today?

00:36:10.000 No iPhones.

00:36:12.000 Other than that, what's the difference?

00:36:13.000 We were all online.

00:36:15.000 Everybody had email.

00:36:16.000 I mean, there was less social media and things along those lines, but ultimately, there's very little difference between today and 2005. If you had a 2005 car, that's a nice car.

00:36:27.000 You could drive that around and be just like a modern car, or a 2015 car.

00:36:32.000 No different.

00:36:33.000 Not much difference in the music.

00:36:35.000 You know, you can listen to some music from 2005. It's pretty similar.

00:36:40.000 Big time.

00:36:40.000 Yeah, you could take a song from 2005, you could totally release it today.

00:36:43.000 Like a hit, and it'd be a hit today.

00:36:46.000 But the difference between a hit from 1955 and a hit from 1965, Jesus Christ.

00:36:53.000 Jesus, what a Which is why, to this day, people about the 1960s either love it or hate it.

00:37:00.000 People either are like, the 60s, they ruined American culture, everything got terrible.

00:37:04.000 Or they're like, oh, thank God for the 60s.

00:37:06.000 That's where all the cool stuff started happening.

00:37:08.000 It's very rare to find people who are neutral about it.

00:37:11.000 The difference is the people that got the drugs and didn't get any drugs.

00:37:14.000 Exactly. 1.00

00:37:16.000 The people that were getting crew cuts and fucking goddamn hippies. 1.00

00:37:19.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:37:20.000 They never got it.

00:37:21.000 They didn't understand.

00:37:21.000 They missed the boat.

00:37:22.000 Yeah, let's nuke Vietnam. 0.99

00:37:24.000 They didn't let us win.

00:37:25.000 That's what happened.

00:37:28.000 It's fascinating to think that the culture can shift and change so quickly.

00:37:33.000 That must have been terrifying for the old guard.

00:37:35.000 You know, the people that were...

00:37:37.000 I mean, you also have to think the ability to communicate about these things, about these complex issues, didn't exist back then.

00:37:44.000 So all you could do is go down to your local bar and complain or your...

00:37:47.000 I guess they didn't even have coffee shops back then, right?

00:37:50.000 Really?

00:37:51.000 No coffee shops?

00:37:52.000 Serious?

00:37:52.000 Well, there was like diners, but they didn't have a Starbucks.

00:37:59.000 That shit didn't even exist. 1.00

00:38:01.000 Man, that's nuts. 1.00

00:38:03.000 When I was a kid, you would go to Dunkin' Donuts and get coffee, but that was it.

00:38:08.000 There was no Starbucks.

00:38:10.000 And no place like the mom and pap store wasn't just open tables where people could sit down and chat, was just go eat and get your coffee, get out.

00:38:18.000 No, I mean, it was all local.

00:38:20.000 I remember, like, if you were a worldly person in Boston, you would get the New York Times.

00:38:25.000 Like, that was to show everybody that you were worldly.

00:38:28.000 You would read the New York Times. 0.95

00:38:30.000 If you were a dummy, you would get the Herald.

00:38:33.000 And if you were, you know, local, but, you know, you're on the ball, you get the Boston Globe.

00:38:38.000 I used to deliver all three of them.

00:38:40.000 The New York Times was very rare, and whenever I would deliver the New York Times, the dude always had like a BMW or a Saab or something like that, you know?

00:38:49.000 They always had like some cool car, and they lived in a cool house, and they just, they wanted to be more into, they didn't want to live in New York necessarily, or if they did, they didn't have the funds to move there, but they wanted to be worldly.

00:39:04.000 And sounded like they had the money.

00:39:06.000 Yeah.

00:39:06.000 And that's how you got a hold of the real news.

00:39:09.000 That's how you had your finger on the pulse.

00:39:11.000 And you had to be active.

00:39:13.000 Like, I remember, you know, like, there was this guy that I knew that would, you know, he would read all the papers.

00:39:18.000 He'd read the Times, he'd read the Herald, and I would ask him, like, why, you know, why do you read all these different papers?

00:39:24.000 Why not just pick one and read them?

00:39:25.000 He's like...

00:39:26.000 To really get a sense of what's going on in the world, you really got to read all of them.

00:39:30.000 Like, the New York Times will cover some subjects globally that the Boston Globe won't. 0.56

00:39:34.000 The Boston Herald doesn't give a fuck about what's happening anywhere but Boston.

00:39:37.000 And there was, like, this thing where you had to kind of, like, search around to get a sound, like a distant sound of the Earth, of, like, what's actually going on on the planet. 0.92

00:39:48.000 Whereas today, it's unavoidable.

00:39:51.000 Today, you actually got to hide from information.

00:39:53.000 Yeah, I know.

00:39:53.000 Exactly.

00:39:54.000 No, spoiler! 0.90

00:39:54.000 I don't want to know about that! 0.90

00:39:56.000 Don't fucking tell me about The Walking Dead yet! 0.99

00:39:58.000 No, I know. 0.99

00:39:59.000 When I was growing up, me being in Italy too, which was even further removed from some of the news, I love basketball.

00:40:06.000 And I remember when I was maybe eight, nine years old, I wanted to find out who won the NBA Finals.

00:40:12.000 There was the game on Sunday.

00:40:13.000 What happened?

00:40:14.000 And I literally would have to call the one magazine in Italy that dealt with basketball that would come out once a month.

00:40:22.000 And I would call them and they had talked to their friend in New York who had told them who won.

00:40:26.000 Otherwise, I would have had to wait probably three weeks until that next issue come up who tells you who won the NBA final a month earlier.

00:40:35.000 That's the world that I grew up in.

00:40:39.000 And so it's like, when you think about today, you can be on the top of the Himalaya, and if you find the right connection, you can watch the game live.

00:40:46.000 It's like, that's a whole other game altogether.

00:40:50.000 Yeah, you were reading about basketball that happened weeks ago.

00:40:54.000 Yeah, and get all excited.

00:40:56.000 It's like, man, I can't believe I'm going to find out now about that game.

00:41:00.000 When were the first organized sports?

00:41:03.000 There was 1800s already.

00:41:06.000 Late 1800s in US, you start having a whole bunch.

00:41:08.000 There's an awesome story about the development of football in the United States, which was by no means the first.

00:41:14.000 Baseball was before and everything.

00:41:16.000 But football was funny because there's this story that late 1800s, there's no more frontier.

00:41:21.000 There are no more Indian wars because everybody's been conquered. 0.99

00:41:24.000 So there was not anymore this tradition for kind of upper class males to go in the military, fight the Indians, that kind of stuff.

00:41:31.000 I think? 0.98

00:41:51.000 So somebody was like, okay, we can play this game where they beat the shit out of each other. 0.99

00:41:57.000 It's going to be this manly physical game where they just brutalize each other. 0.99

00:42:01.000 Then at least, you know, it's not as good as bringing home a good scalp, but it's something, you know, it's like it saves their masculinity and stuff.

00:42:09.000 And that's how a lot of...

00:42:10.000 So if you see all the big football programs of the late 1800s, even early 1900s, they were all Ivy League school.

00:42:17.000 Stuff that today you never...

00:42:18.000 You know, Harvard, Yale, they had the top football programs.

00:42:21.000 And it's like, how the hell did that even...

00:42:24.000 And a lot of it was because it was a way to show, look, I read books, but I'm still a man, okay?

00:42:28.000 I'm still tough.

00:42:30.000 Wow, that's...

00:42:32.000 That's interesting.

00:42:33.000 So it was a substitute for war.

00:42:34.000 Yep.

00:42:35.000 Which totally makes sense.

00:42:36.000 I mean, that's kind of exactly what it is.

00:42:39.000 If you watch a game, you're winning.

00:42:42.000 You're attacking.

00:42:44.000 You're trying to defend.

00:42:46.000 You're crossing a boundary, which is like the border to the city, the gates to the brothel or to the castle or to wherever you're trying to break into.

00:42:57.000 Wow.

00:42:58.000 Wow.

00:42:59.000 Yeah.

00:42:59.000 And they even had these, all the top schools were Ivy League, upper class, you know, super rich people.

00:43:07.000 And then one of the top schools was Carlisle Indian School, which was the lowest of the law, like poorest people in the United States, Indian kids who got sent there in boarding schools.

00:43:16.000 They had nothing to do.

00:43:17.000 They would play football.

00:43:19.000 And so what they would do is that they would study the rulebook, try to figure out what is that nobody's doing.

00:43:25.000 The technical is legal, but what kind of loophole can we play with?

00:43:29.000 And they would start using some tactic that nobody had used, kill everybody in the process.

00:43:36.000 So then the league goes, okay, we can't have them Indians beating Harvard, so let's change the rules. 1.00

00:43:41.000 That thing they do, make it illegal. 0.89

00:43:43.000 Like what things were?

00:43:44.000 You know, I wish I remember.

00:43:46.000 I read through the list.

00:43:47.000 There were some that were released, but basically they developed the game of football in terms of how, you know, this constant game between the league and the Indian school where these guys use some loophole, the league comes in, makes it illegal.

00:43:58.000 And then the next time they use a different loophole and then the league comes in.

00:44:01.000 And so a lot of the rules of football were shaped to start, okay, those guys do it, let's stop it.

00:44:06.000 That's interesting.

00:44:07.000 Lucky for them, black people weren't playing back then. 1.00

00:44:10.000 Yeah, serious. 0.89

00:44:12.000 They wouldn't change all the rules.

00:44:14.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:44:14.000 That's what they've done now.

00:44:15.000 They just give up. 0.99

00:44:16.000 It's mostly black. 0.99

00:44:17.000 So you can't run. 0.98

00:44:18.000 You can't run.

00:44:19.000 You can't run.

00:44:19.000 You can get really big and white and block the runners.

00:44:23.000 Or you can get good eyesight, hand-eye coordination, but you can throw the ball at black people who run really fast. 1.00

00:44:31.000 It's so rare. 0.85

00:44:33.000 You get like a super speedy white guy when one comes around like, look at him go! 0.99

00:44:37.000 He runs like a black guy! 1.00

00:44:41.000 It's hilarious. 1.00

00:44:42.000 It is fucking hilarious. 0.90

00:44:44.000 And it's funny how the stereotypes change over time, because you had Thad Russell on the show, like in his book, how he breaks down how many of the early natural Jewish athletes, which you're like, what? 0.97

00:44:57.000 Or a lot of the early boxers are all Irish.

00:45:02.000 A lot of Jewish boxers back in the day. 1.00

00:45:05.000 Big time. 1.00

00:45:05.000 Well, they were people that were fucked with. 1.00

00:45:07.000 They were the early immigrants and they were struggling. 0.99

00:45:09.000 That's what it always seems to be.

00:45:11.000 It seems to be the group that is the most recent immigrants.

00:45:17.000 Now you get a lot of Russians.

00:45:19.000 A lot of Russians in both Europe and in America with so many Russians in MMA. Dagestan, a lot of Dagestan people.

00:45:27.000 A completely disproportionate amount of elite fighters, too. 0.98

00:45:31.000 A lot of really fucking tough guys from Russia. 0.66

00:45:34.000 Well, if you are used to, I mean, it's almost stereotypical, but if you are used to toughness throughout your life, then climbing in the ring doesn't seem like much. 0.98

00:45:42.000 If you are all sheltered and protected, climbing in the ring is scary as hell.

00:45:46.000 Exactly.

00:45:47.000 It's exactly what it is.

00:45:48.000 It's exactly what it is.

00:45:49.000 And it's also like the hunger that you have because your life has been like just filled with despair and Struggle and in a lot of abuse they're like violence becomes like some sort of an automatic response to reaching out for abuse you know reaching out and In response for the abuse you've suffered.

00:46:10.000 That's where a chip on your shoulder comes from, right? 0.84

00:46:13.000 It's like someone just waiting for someone to say some shit because you've just been dealing bottled up. 1.00

00:46:19.000 You have this rage that is like, please just cross that line so I have an excuse to beat the shit out of you right now. 1.00

00:46:25.000 A few generations later, your kids are pussies. 1.00

00:46:28.000 Exactly. 1.00

00:46:29.000 Exactly. 0.99

00:46:30.000 And then you look at them like, go play football, damn it! 0.99

00:46:32.000 What kind of man are you? 1.00

00:46:34.000 But it's weird because isn't it kind of a good thing that they become pussies? 1.00

00:46:38.000 Because that means we've become civilized and everyone's sort of calmed down. 0.98

00:46:41.000 There's this weird fine line that we walk because ultimately we would like to have no violence.

00:46:48.000 Ultimately we would love it if you never had to worry about a threat of violence.

00:46:51.000 Just go through your entire life, never worry about anybody shooting you or stabbing you or beating you up and that'd be beautiful.

00:46:58.000 But along the line, you kind of lose out on a lot of the stuff that comes along with living a hard life.

00:47:07.000 Yep.

00:47:08.000 The character that you develop.

00:47:10.000 Like everybody that I know that grew up in a tough neighborhood, they have a sharpness to them, you know?

00:47:15.000 And there's a character that they have, that they possess, that the people that grew up super cushy and some, you know, Connecticut country club estate type situation.

00:47:25.000 I've noticed...

00:47:27.000 I didn't grow up in the roughest environment, but it definitely was not upper class, rich, anything.

00:47:33.000 So to me, dealing with gangsters was kind of normal.

00:47:37.000 It was like, you know, just a gangster.

00:47:38.000 There are clear rules of the game.

00:47:40.000 You know how to deal with them.

00:47:41.000 And so to see people who don't have that experience and when they deal with somebody was by nature, by...

00:47:48.000 What kind of gangsters?

00:47:48.000 Like mafia guys?

00:47:50.000 Hmm.

00:47:50.000 Not formally, no.

00:47:52.000 Usually not mafia.

00:47:53.000 More just like, you know, people who deal, people who rob, you know, that kind of thing, where it's like the guys who are some serious artists of just shoplifting, who just can go into a store and walk out, and they would do it pretty much professionally, where they make a living by,

00:48:09.000 you know, stuff like that, where it's always like crossing, definitely doing illegal stuff.

00:48:14.000 Not...

00:48:14.000 I mean, I've met some guys who are probably more well-connected in a more formal way, but that was not the normal thing.

00:48:20.000 But the normal thing was guys who do a lot of illegal stuff, or maybe they are not technically against it in a strict sense, but people who get into a lot of fights, that kind of thing, where it's sort of outside of the normal rules of civilized society.

00:48:35.000 But to me, there are clear rules of what you do with those guys.

00:48:40.000 Usually, if you treat them with respect and you don't show yourself to be a wimp, they treat you fairly well if you know how to play the game.

00:48:48.000 If you don't, these guys will test you.

00:48:51.000 And if they smell weakness, then they'll clamp down on you.

00:48:54.000 Or if you look down on them, they will clamp down on you.

00:48:58.000 There's a very clear rule of the game that if you play it right, you can have very mellow, pleasant interactions.

00:49:04.000 Yeah.

00:49:05.000 But people who don't have that experience that I see them interact with, I'm like, don't say that!

00:49:10.000 You cannot say that to that guy!

00:49:12.000 You know, that's just not gonna end well.

00:49:15.000 That's bad.

00:49:17.000 Well, some people have a real issue with letting people in to their life.

00:49:21.000 Like, you would see that, like, that was what people always said about, like, rap music.

00:49:25.000 And one of the big problems with rap music is these guys would make it, and they would become legit, and then they would let, like...

00:49:31.000 Gangsters in their life because they wanted to be seen with these people.

00:49:35.000 They wanted to be legit.

00:49:36.000 And then all of a sudden these people are like completely intertwined in their life.

00:49:40.000 Apparently that happened with Edward James Olmos when he did that movie American Me.

00:49:44.000 Do you know the story behind that?

00:49:46.000 That was scary business.

00:49:49.000 Yeah, it was a heavy-duty movie, and the movie was all about these Mexican gangbangers, and apparently he had become friends with these guys, in air quotes, friends, while filming this movie, and just got way too close, and they just started extorting him. 0.97

00:50:05.000 And they started demanding money, and they knew where he lived, and it became a real fucking issue. 0.95

00:50:11.000 Yeah, you are their lunch at that point. 0.99

00:50:13.000 And again, if they think that there's any weakness there, then you're screwed. 1.00

00:50:16.000 That's why there's a predatorial aspect to that game where you need to know how to play it, otherwise you're fucked. 0.99

00:50:22.000 And I'm sure he wanted to be down, you know? 0.99

00:50:24.000 Yeah, of course. 1.00

00:50:25.000 He's doing this movie, he's got to play this gangster cholo, but then the movie had all this gay sex in it. 1.00

00:50:31.000 Yeah, that was really good. 0.99

00:50:32.000 Hey, you're not supposed to talk about that.

00:50:35.000 Still traumatized now, I think.

00:50:36.000 That was a heavy movie, man.

00:50:38.000 Yeah, there was a lot of weirdness in that movie.

00:50:41.000 It's like, what is going on?

00:50:42.000 Yeah, that was rough.

00:50:45.000 Definitely bad stuff.

00:50:46.000 But that whole, like, becoming tight with gangsters, like, that's a common tale.

00:50:52.000 That's a...

00:50:54.000 It has repeated itself over and over and over again, like with Hollywood actors that wanted to be tough guys.

00:51:01.000 And that weakness right there, because if they smell that you want something from them or that you look up to them in some way, then that's weakness.

00:51:08.000 If they see you putting them down, that's also a challenge. 0.52

00:51:12.000 So you're kind of screwed if you do one thing, you're screwed if you do another.

00:51:14.000 There's sort of a narrow way. 0.93

00:51:16.000 It's not too narrow. 1.00

00:51:17.000 There's a way to do it, but if you step outside of it, yeah, you're fucked. 1.00

00:51:20.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:51:21.000 But it's the same thing as getting into fights.

00:51:25.000 If you are too aggressive, you will get into fights because you're challenging people and you're backing them in against the corner and they have to fight you back.

00:51:31.000 But if you are too mellow, then people won't respect you and they see you as weak and they come after you.

00:51:36.000 You kind of have to have that boundary where you're polite to people, you're nice, but the message is, look, I'm nice because I choose to. 1.00

00:51:43.000 If you decide to cross that line, I'm going to fuck you up right now. 0.92

00:51:47.000 And that vibe where it's like, you can bring up the goods when it comes down to throwing down, but you don't volunteer it. 1.00

00:51:53.000 You're not this macho guy who's like trying to get into a fight.

00:51:56.000 That's what usually people who are out for a fight tend to respect and bug away from.

00:52:00.000 It's like, that guy, I'm not going to pick that guy.

00:52:02.000 I'm going to pick the next one.

00:52:03.000 Yeah, I mean, obviously there's a lot of variables and sometimes you just run into the wrong person at the wrong time. 0.99

00:52:07.000 Shit happens, of course. 0.94

00:52:09.000 But there's a parallel with the animal world. 0.99

00:52:11.000 I mean, you think about like dogs, like certain dogs.

00:52:13.000 If you're around dogs and you panic and you run, they'll chase you and bite you.

00:52:17.000 It's like instinctive on their part.

00:52:18.000 They almost can't help it.

00:52:20.000 Whereas if you encounter dogs or even some wild animals, you know, and they say you have to stand your ground or yell at them, like mountain lions especially.

00:52:28.000 Yep. 0.99

00:52:29.000 You know, they say you're supposed to look big and make noise, and they're like, all right, fuck this. 0.99

00:52:32.000 I'm out of here. 0.99

00:52:33.000 This is too much work.

00:52:34.000 You know, they don't want to get injured.

00:52:36.000 So they're looking for something easy.

00:52:38.000 But when they sense weakness, I think it's almost nature.

00:52:43.000 Like nature wants them to go after you. 1.00

00:52:45.000 You guys, look at this weak bitch. 1.00

00:52:47.000 Let me just eat him. 1.00

00:52:48.000 Let's just eat this dude. 0.81

00:52:50.000 No, that's what it is. 0.82

00:52:51.000 That's the predatory.

00:52:52.000 I remember once when I was a kid, I was probably like 18, 19 years old, and I found myself in one of the situations. 0.92

00:52:58.000 I was like, what the fuck am I doing here?

00:52:59.000 Because I basically ended up in the middle of two, not exactly gangs, but close to, that they were about to get into a fight. 0.99

00:53:06.000 Like West Side Story type shit? 0.94

00:53:07.000 Kind of, you know, so it's not real mafia or blood and creeps, real gangster, but it's, you know... 0.99

00:53:13.000 Tough guys.

00:53:13.000 Yeah, and...

00:53:15.000 I was dealing with some guys and then this other group come along and I'm in the middle and you can't really walk away because daddy are a bitch. 1.00

00:53:22.000 It's like, oh Jesus, really do I have to be in the middle of this shit? 1.00

00:53:26.000 And, you know, they start in this ritualized way where they start talking shit and so you can almost set your clock. 0.99

00:53:33.000 It's like, okay, we're two and a half minutes away from the fight, right? 0.98

00:53:36.000 It's like they are going through their dances, then they're going to do a push, then they're going to throw down.

00:53:41.000 And I remember I was talking with some of these guys from quote-unquote the other side, assuming that I was with one side, but...

00:53:48.000 And my vibe with these guys was like, look, if we really want to do this, okay, fine, let's do this.

00:53:54.000 But honestly, I was thinking I had a date tonight, I want to go out with this hot woman, we're going to go to a movie...

00:54:02.000 I kind of rather would do that than this, but I don't know.

00:54:05.000 Maybe you guys have nothing better to do. 0.97

00:54:07.000 I mean, if we don't, let's fucking do it. 0.99

00:54:09.000 That's Italians. 1.00

00:54:10.000 You guys are sitting there having these long conversations, sit down, have a coffee, a little spaghetti.

00:54:15.000 And it was hilarious because in the meantime, the two main guys were kind of...

00:54:18.000 Building it up.

00:54:19.000 And by the time they turned around, nobody wanted to fight.

00:54:21.000 They were all like, no, you're right.

00:54:23.000 I kind of want to do this other thing. 1.00

00:54:24.000 Fuck this. 1.00

00:54:25.000 I don't feel like it. 1.00

00:54:26.000 And, you know, they said they would lift their shirt and they had chains on.

00:54:29.000 They were like, you know, I come ready, but you're right. 1.00

00:54:32.000 Fuck this. 1.00

00:54:33.000 Chains? 1.00

00:54:33.000 They were ready to fight with chains? 1.00

00:54:34.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:54:35.000 Because, you know, nobody has guns.

00:54:36.000 So it's a chain fight.

00:54:38.000 Wow.

00:54:38.000 That kind of thing.

00:54:41.000 So I thought, that's a win.

00:54:42.000 I felt like, okay, that was one of my better days in terms of how I played it.

00:54:49.000 Because again, if you show too much fear, then you get squashed.

00:54:52.000 But if you show too much aggressiveness, then you invite the fight.

00:54:54.000 There's also a natural thing when groups of men meet.

00:54:57.000 It's almost like it's a tribal thing that's in our DNA back to when you would run into people, you know, out in the field, and it would turn into a war, almost like an instinctive bonding thing.

00:55:09.000 I wonder if that's where, like, because a lot of...

00:55:14.000 Yeah.

00:55:19.000 Yeah.

00:55:24.000 Yeah.

00:55:31.000 When you have this mob mentality, people will do things like gang rapes or gang murders, gang beatings, lootings, lighting places on fire.

00:55:41.000 The behavior escalates to this really insane place that is very, very rare for someone to go to on their own as an individual. 0.82

00:55:51.000 I wonder if that's ingrained in us because of this It's a long history of war in the human race that when you get a bunch of men together and a bunch of men on the other side, we just immediately go to fucking scorched earth. 0.65

00:56:05.000 It's immediately cutting off heads and lighting bodies on fire and catapulting them onto rooftops. 0.83

00:56:11.000 You know what I mean? 0.95

00:56:13.000 I know.

00:56:13.000 Human history does read like Game of Thrones.

00:56:15.000 To me, Game of Thrones is a fictionalized documentary.

00:56:18.000 It's just...

00:56:19.000 That's how it is, right?

00:56:20.000 And dragons.

00:56:21.000 Yeah, and dragons.

00:56:22.000 Yeah, minus the dragons.

00:56:23.000 But other than that, it's just most of human history has been like that. 0.98

00:56:26.000 And then you get into those things where maybe you don't want to start it, but you remember, remember those fuckers? 0.99

00:56:31.000 They got Little Johnny the other time, and they burned him, and so now you feel entitled. 1.00

00:56:36.000 Get him back!

00:56:37.000 Exactly.

00:56:38.000 And then it never ends, because it's the other guy started it.

00:56:41.000 I'm not choosing this game, but hey, they started it, and then they remember that you did it.

00:56:45.000 It's like, you never got out.

00:56:47.000 Yeah, I tried to explain that to somebody once when I was talking about street fights.

00:56:50.000 And I was saying that, you know, if you get into a fight with someone, you're not just getting into a fight.

00:56:55.000 You're signing a contract that you will be in conflict with them back and forth until it's resolved.

00:57:01.000 It's not as simple as you get in a fight.

00:57:03.000 It's very rare that two people get in a fight and then after that fight's over, like, it's over.

00:57:08.000 We'll shake hands and walk away.

00:57:09.000 Even often in a contest, like a jujitsu match or a kickboxing match or something along those lines, After it's over, people are still upset if they lose, and they still want to get that guy back.

00:57:19.000 But a fight fight, like an actual fight on the street fight, oh my god, that can go on for years.

00:57:25.000 What was the famous feud in America?

00:57:28.000 The Hatfields and the McCoys, right?

00:57:32.000 These two wacky families killed each other back and forth for years.

00:57:36.000 They just couldn't resolve it.

00:57:38.000 That's why once you start, you better finish it.

00:57:44.000 If you're going to go down that way, then you have to go down all out.

00:57:47.000 Then you just need to really put an end to that situation where nobody from the other side can come get you.

00:57:52.000 But then in a war, you're talking genocide.

00:57:54.000 That's not exactly the most pleasant solution in the war that you want to get into.

00:57:58.000 But the reality is that beating somebody is only postponing the next fight.

00:58:02.000 It's kind of like World War I and World War II. They are mad because they got beaten.

00:58:07.000 They are reaching for a chance for revenge.

00:58:09.000 And the first time they have it, they'll jump on it because they are pissed off.

00:58:12.000 And understandably so.

00:58:13.000 So unless it's resolved in some way where everybody can say, we're done, right?

00:58:19.000 We're not saying we're happy, but can we live with the current compromise?

00:58:22.000 The stuff that we reach after the fight, the balance of power, can you live with it?

00:58:27.000 Then it becomes a lot...

00:58:28.000 That's why World War II, you know, dumping a ton of money into Germany and much of Western Europe rebuilding it.

00:58:34.000 They took away that resentment that otherwise would have been there. 0.99

00:58:38.000 Like, those fuckers put us in this situation and it ruined our life and that's why our economy sucks. 0.99

00:58:43.000 That's why everything, you know, being extra generous in that regard wasn't just generous out of the goodness of your heart. 1.00

00:58:48.000 It's because you want to make sure you don't fight World War III in 10 years down the road.

00:58:52.000 And that works.

00:58:54.000 That's a good alternative to genocide.

00:58:56.000 Yeah, smart people learned how to negotiate.

00:58:58.000 They go, look, let's just work this out.

00:59:00.000 Let's figure out a way, a mutually agreeable way, where we can walk away and have some dignity.

00:59:08.000 It's really fascinating.

00:59:10.000 I had this conversation with Duncan once, and it was the first time I ever thought this, but I said that the history of the human race is essentially military history.

00:59:20.000 I've been obsessed with this thought because next time I chat with Dan Carlin, that's what I want to bring up.

00:59:27.000 And the one question I want to ask him is exactly about this.

00:59:29.000 He's like, I love what Dan does.

00:59:32.000 I love a lot of history.

00:59:34.000 I dig it from so many different angles.

00:59:37.000 And yet, why do we always end up talking about horrible stuff?

00:59:40.000 And I do it too.

00:59:41.000 My first two episodes of History on Fire are all about some nasty, Yeah, it sinks. 1.00

00:59:45.000 Insane shit. 0.98

00:59:46.000 Why is it the stuff that we remember? 1.00

00:59:49.000 Why is it that the stuff that makes the history book is all the horrible atrocity, massacre, war, set people on fire?

00:59:59.000 Is it that just we don't do anything else or that it doesn't catch our attention? 0.67

01:00:02.000 I wish there was a way to also put the spotlight in history on some more mellow aspects of people who figured out ways to live a good life in the middle of all the shit that was going down.

01:00:12.000 It seems so much of it is, as you're saying, it's all military stuff. 0.89

01:00:16.000 It's all fight, war, explode the other side.

01:00:20.000 That's really the big events, though.

01:00:23.000 I mean, when you look at the history of the United States, what are the events that people talk about?

01:00:51.000 Yeah.

01:01:11.000 One of the great podcasts that Dan Carlin did on history that's not necessarily about war is Riddled with Violence, The Prophets of Doom, about Martin Luther.

01:01:22.000 I mean, that's not about war, but it is.

01:01:25.000 It is.

01:01:25.000 Yeah, it's still violence.

01:01:26.000 It's fucking horrific. 0.99

01:01:28.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:01:28.000 Horrific, amazing, horrific violence. 1.00

01:01:31.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:01:31.000 But I think a lot of it is there's a bias in the record because it's a cheap, easy way to get people's attention.

01:01:38.000 And so most of our history, it's an easy way for us to go down that path.

01:01:42.000 And I do it too, right?

01:01:43.000 If I look at 90% of the episodes I'm preparing for History on Fire, I'm like, oh, great.

01:01:49.000 It's another beheading of this, and it's another...

01:01:53.000 But why don't we—and I don't mean we as in—I mean in general.

01:01:56.000 It's like people who write history, our way of thinking.

01:02:00.000 Why—I'm not denying that part.

01:02:02.000 That's an important part, and we should look at it.

01:02:03.000 But why don't we also look at other things?

01:02:05.000 It's like, what's wrong with studying about, you know, putting the accent more on stuff about people dropping acid and having sex outside of marriage a lot more and listening to cool music and coming out with Jimi Hendrix?

01:02:17.000 And why is that that less important than the Cold War?

01:02:21.000 It's not.

01:02:22.000 To me, that just is...

01:02:23.000 I mean, how many people's life has it touched or has transformed that way?

01:02:28.000 A lot, as much as, you know, sometimes we think whose precedent is history.

01:02:34.000 In fact, in most of our lives, whose precedent is at most mildly important, at most, and there are so many other things that count for so much more.

01:02:44.000 But why is it that then when we write a history, it's about whose precedent and what war took place when there's so much other stuff in our lives that...

01:02:52.000 Account for more.

01:02:53.000 When we were talking about the 60s, isn't a big part of the 60s, though, the Vietnam War and the resistance to the Vietnam War? 1.00

01:02:59.000 And that sort of fueled that sort of crazy hippie behavior because they realized that these old assholes and their shitty, stupid ways had led us into the South Pacific in this crazy war that nobody wanted. 0.99

01:03:11.000 I mean, that's a big part, I think, of the rebellion of the 1960s. 1.00

01:03:16.000 It's almost unavoidable because that's the worst thing that can happen.

01:03:19.000 See, the worst thing that can happen is someone kills you or kills your loved ones, right?

01:03:23.000 So when that happens en masse, you know, like in war, well, those become the biggest blips on the social radar.

01:03:31.000 Yeah, you're right.

01:03:32.000 So I guess embrace our inner Game of Thrones and just deal with it.

01:03:36.000 Well, it kind of seems...

01:03:38.000 Like, it's unavoidable.

01:03:40.000 Well, what's unavoidable, it seems like, at least historically, I'm not saying about for the future, but war seemed unavoidable.

01:03:49.000 Because it was never avoided.

01:03:50.000 I mean, it's hard to argue that war is avoidable when it's never been avoided. 0.99

01:03:55.000 It's like, you kind of, at a certain point in time, you know, if a girl acts like a cunt all the time, she's always screaming and yelling and clawing and pulling chicks' hairs, and she's like, I'm not a cunt. 1.00

01:04:06.000 But you're a cunt every day! 1.00

01:04:08.000 You might be a cunt. 1.00

01:04:10.000 If you wear it today, you wear it the day before. 1.00

01:04:13.000 You fucking keyed three people's cars today. 1.00

01:04:16.000 You threw a fucking bag out the window. 1.00

01:04:19.000 You're a cunt. 1.00

01:04:19.000 I'm glad you don't feel that way, but the evidence seems to say... 1.00

01:04:25.000 I don't understand you.

01:04:26.000 Okay.

01:04:26.000 Well, people are warlike.

01:04:28.000 No, we're not.

01:04:28.000 We're not, man.

01:04:29.000 We're not.

01:04:30.000 Okay, but human history says you're wrong.

01:04:33.000 It really does.

01:04:34.000 Like, there's not a single moment in time in human history where someone, somewhere, wasn't killing.

01:04:40.000 Like, okay.

01:04:41.000 Let's look at it this way.

01:04:42.000 I believe firmly that if you, me, and Jamie all lived together on an island, we would not kill each other.

01:04:49.000 If we had plenty of food and we didn't argue over resources, we got along great, I don't think we would kill each other.

01:04:56.000 Assuming that there are at least three women there. 1.00

01:04:59.000 At least one girl that's got a lot of endurance. 1.00

01:05:02.000 That could work as well, okay.

01:05:05.000 That could also do it.

01:05:07.000 But even if there wasn't, right? 0.89

01:05:08.000 Even if we just went and jerked off in bushes for the rest of our lives.

01:05:12.000 You would say, okay, the odds of us killing each other are extremely, extremely small.

01:05:18.000 So if there was only three of us on the planet, there would be no war.

01:05:22.000 Right.

01:05:22.000 That would be it.

01:05:23.000 There would be no war.

01:05:24.000 But as soon as you get more than three, As soon as you get more than 10, like if there was 10 of us, if it was 10 of us living on an island, man, the odds of somebody getting jacked, it goes up.

01:05:34.000 They start, yeah.

01:05:35.000 You get to 20, ooh, things get weird.

01:05:38.000 Something could happen, things could get weird.

01:05:40.000 How about if it's 20 and 17 are guys and three are women?

01:05:42.000 Oh, yeah.

01:05:42.000 Someone's going to die.

01:05:43.000 Yeah, at that point, it's a guarantee.

01:05:45.000 It's a guarantee.

01:05:46.000 It's not even up for debate.

01:05:47.000 It's a number thing, right?

01:05:49.000 You get to a certain number of people, and then war becomes inevitable.

01:05:55.000 And there's never been a time, ever, in the history of the human race where someone, somewhere, wasn't killing somebody.

01:06:01.000 It's literally never happened.

01:06:03.000 Not that we know of.

01:06:04.000 Well, you need to read the Bible and go back to the time of Jesus! 0.99

01:06:09.000 Adam and Eve never did anything to each other.

01:06:11.000 I think there's a certain point in time where you go back and people were essentially dealing with predators.

01:06:19.000 And that might have been the only time we weren't killing each other.

01:06:22.000 We're just constantly worried about getting eaten.

01:06:24.000 Right.

01:06:26.000 Exactly.

01:06:28.000 But even then, like giraffes kill each other.

01:06:30.000 I didn't know until this year that giraffes kill each other.

01:06:33.000 I didn't know that.

01:06:34.000 I just found out now.

01:06:35.000 Dude, you gotta see the way they do it.

01:06:37.000 What do they do?

01:06:38.000 They beat each other with their necks.

01:06:40.000 They use their head like a whip.

01:06:42.000 You know those weird knobs that they have on their heads?

01:06:45.000 They whip each other with those things. 0.65

01:06:47.000 They use their head literally like a whip.

01:06:50.000 It's the weirdest thing to... 1.00

01:06:52.000 Pull that shit up, Jamie. 1.00

01:06:54.000 They beat each other to death, though. 1.00

01:06:56.000 Like, commonly.

01:06:57.000 Beat each other to death.

01:06:59.000 Until I started hunting, I didn't know that deers kill each other all the time.

01:07:03.000 They stab each other all the time.

01:07:05.000 What a horrible dog-eat-dog world. 0.95

01:07:08.000 Imagine you grow swords on your head and just run around stabbing each other. 0.58

01:07:13.000 But giraffes, it's so odd to do it because it's a whipping thing. 1.00

01:07:17.000 Look.

01:07:17.000 See?

01:07:18.000 They whip each other.

01:07:19.000 Look at that.

01:07:19.000 Bang!

01:07:21.000 Look at this.

01:07:21.000 They stand side to side.

01:07:23.000 Yeah, they stand side to side and they push on each other and then they whip each other with their heads.

01:07:27.000 What are they thinking right now?

01:07:30.000 Look at how they do it.

01:07:31.000 This seems like it's sped up, Jamie.

01:07:33.000 Is it sped up?

01:07:34.000 I don't think so.

01:07:35.000 Wow.

01:07:35.000 Oh, it's not sped up.

01:07:37.000 No, it is sped up.

01:07:38.000 Yeah.

01:07:38.000 That's sped up.

01:07:42.000 This is not sped up.

01:07:44.000 Okay, this one's not sped up.

01:07:45.000 That's more realistic.

01:07:46.000 I think the first one in the...

01:07:48.000 This is a video series of giraffe...

01:07:49.000 What is the name of this video?

01:07:52.000 Giraffes fighting giraffe battles.

01:07:54.000 But they always do it the same way.

01:07:56.000 They go side to side, just like two dudes standing shoulder to shoulder, and then head-butting each other.

01:08:03.000 Weird.

01:08:03.000 Yeah, it's so strange, man.

01:08:06.000 And these guys at least are clinching this one.

01:08:08.000 The previous ones were in this stand side to side, walk each other, and then take five seconds where they are thinking about the next move.

01:08:14.000 But look, they get back to the same position.

01:08:16.000 They always get back to the shoulder-to-shoulder position. 0.99

01:08:18.000 When they clinch up, it's just to get back to the side-by-side position so they can fucking headbutt each other. 1.00

01:08:24.000 So strange. 0.99

01:08:25.000 These guys are hardcore.

01:08:27.000 And they use their head to the body.

01:08:29.000 See, they attack the body with those antlers. 0.99

01:08:32.000 They're like nubs, whatever it is.

01:08:34.000 But they'll go to the same spot over and over again, like right to the ribcage.

01:08:38.000 Can you imagine if giraffes had actually deer antlers? 0.98

01:08:41.000 They would just gore the shit out of each other. 0.97

01:08:43.000 They would. 0.99

01:08:44.000 But see, if you go to the zoo, you would never imagine that this takes place.

01:08:48.000 No.

01:08:48.000 Because one of the cool things about giraffes is that they're an animal that's so universally gentle that you can have babies feed them.

01:08:56.000 Like my daughter, when she was two years old, they give you lettuce and you hold out the lettuce and the giraffe comes over with this crazy tongue that's like an arm and they reach out with their tongue and it wraps it around the leaves and it pulls it.

01:09:09.000 But they're so confident in their behavior around people They let babies feed them. 1.00

01:09:15.000 But you get these two motherfuckers together and they fight over some pussy. 1.00

01:09:19.000 That's what he told. 1.00

01:09:20.000 It's exactly what this is.

01:09:22.000 That's exactly what the deer don't fight.

01:09:25.000 You know, deer get together in bachelor groups when they're not breeding, when the rut is over.

01:09:29.000 And they're all right.

01:09:30.000 And they're buddies.

01:09:31.000 They're all buddies together.

01:09:32.000 That's like one of the best ways that people hunt them out of the rut is to find bachelor groups. 1.00

01:09:38.000 They get done with those bitches. 1.00

01:09:40.000 They don't even want to hang out with them. 1.00

01:09:41.000 As soon as they get done fighting, or as soon as they're done fighting and fucking, they're like, let's just hang out, guys. 0.96

01:09:46.000 Come on. 0.98

01:09:46.000 Let's go wander through the countryside. 0.98

01:09:48.000 Let's go camp.

01:09:49.000 Let's go hang out.

01:09:50.000 Tell some stories.

01:09:51.000 Come on, guys.

01:09:52.000 I know we stabbed each other a couple of weeks ago, but that's over, bro.

01:09:56.000 It's over.

01:09:56.000 You survive.

01:09:57.000 I survive.

01:09:57.000 We can be friends again.

01:09:58.000 Let's get out of here.

01:09:59.000 They heal up quick, too.

01:10:00.000 That's another bizarre thing about deer.

01:10:02.000 It's like they'll stab each other, and they put these horrible gashes in their body, and then like a week later, it's like completely sealed up, and they're just walking around like nothing happened.

01:10:11.000 Wolverine power?

01:10:12.000 They're just super, super high metabolism, and probably just...

01:10:17.000 You know, they only live like seven years.

01:10:19.000 So I think whatever injuries they have just seals up quick.

01:10:23.000 Because there was this video of this guy.

01:10:25.000 He went bow hunting and he missed this deer.

01:10:28.000 He missed a good spot.

01:10:30.000 You know, he missed the vitals and he hit it in the shoulder.

01:10:32.000 So the deer got an arrow in its shoulder and then they found the deer a week later walking around like nothing.

01:10:38.000 Arrow fell off.

01:10:41.000 The hole in the shoulder had healed up, just sealed itself. 0.99

01:10:45.000 It's like, what the fuck? 0.99

01:10:46.000 That's freaky. 1.00

01:10:47.000 Well, they have to be like that.

01:10:50.000 In their world, they're getting stabbed all the time by swords that these dudes are growing on their heads. 0.99

01:10:56.000 They were competing for sex. 1.00

01:10:58.000 Competing for sex. 0.99

01:10:59.000 That goes back to my point. 1.00

01:11:00.000 If they were giraffe hookers or deer hookers, these guys would suddenly get along. 0.99

01:11:06.000 Well, the crazy thing about deer is it's not just about sex. 1.00

01:11:10.000 It's literally only about sex one time a year. 0.51

01:11:13.000 It just...

01:11:14.000 One time a year.

01:11:15.000 That increases the pressure.

01:11:16.000 It's like, this is my one chance, man, and I only live seven years, so how many chances do I really have in my life?

01:11:21.000 Three, four, five at most?

01:11:23.000 At most. 1.00

01:11:24.000 If you're in my way, I'm going to fucking kill you. 1.00

01:11:27.000 Most of them, they freeze to death. 1.00

01:11:30.000 They freeze to death, they starve to death.

01:11:32.000 Like, they'll wear their teeth down to nothing, and they can no longer process grains.

01:11:36.000 Ooh, that's not a good way to go.

01:11:37.000 It happens to a lot of deer.

01:11:39.000 Like, a lot of people will kill an old deer, and then they open its mouth up, and they go, wow, he would have never made it through the winter, because their teeth are gone.

01:11:46.000 They just have a very finite resource with those teeth.

01:11:50.000 At that point, you're really doing them a favor, because that's an avid way to go by slow starvation. 0.99

01:11:55.000 That's fucked up. 0.99

01:11:56.000 Or they get even worse. 0.99

01:11:58.000 They're on their way to getting starved and the coyotes find them.

01:12:01.000 Yeah.

01:12:01.000 They're weak.

01:12:02.000 And then you get eaten alive. 1.00

01:12:03.000 Asshole first. 1.00

01:12:05.000 That's how they get you. 0.98

01:12:07.000 There was a thing that I tweeted today, Jamie.

01:12:09.000 Did you see a thing about there's literally a new species that is evolving before our eyes.

01:12:14.000 It's a mix of coyotes, wolves, and dogs and domestic dogs.

01:12:19.000 No way.

01:12:19.000 And that a hybrid of these three is incredibly successful.

01:12:23.000 And it's like the koi wolves are coyotes and wolves.

01:12:27.000 And we've known about them for a while.

01:12:28.000 And that's really a fascinating thing because it's a larger coyote.

01:12:31.000 But look at this.

01:12:32.000 New species evolving right before our eyes.

01:12:36.000 An ultra-successful mix of wolves, coyotes, and dogs.

01:12:39.000 It's a really interesting article.

01:12:41.000 But it's an actual...

01:12:43.000 This is from The Economist.

01:12:45.000 This is actually...

01:12:46.000 They're mating with each other. 0.97

01:12:48.000 And they're creating an actual species.

01:12:52.000 Really fast.

01:12:53.000 Wow, that's creepy.

01:13:22.000 Now number in the millions according to research of North Carolina State University.

01:13:26.000 This is really interesting stuff, man.

01:13:29.000 That's crazy.

01:13:31.000 55 pounds?

01:13:33.000 No.

01:13:34.000 Not small at all.

01:13:34.000 No.

01:13:36.000 437. This is cool.

01:13:37.000 An analysis of 437 hybrid animals found that the coyote DNA dominates its genetic makeup with about one-tenth of its DNA from dogs, usually from a larger dog such as Doberman, Pinchers, and German Shepherds,

01:13:53.000 and a quarter from wolves.

01:13:55.000 Wow.

01:13:56.000 That's freaky.

01:13:57.000 Yeah.

01:13:58.000 Dabbled in size compared to a coyote.

01:13:59.000 That's big.

01:14:01.000 Yeah.

01:14:01.000 It's fascinating to think how a species evolved in the first place.

01:14:08.000 How did a wolf become a wolf?

01:14:10.000 How did a giraffe become a giraffe?

01:14:12.000 And to see something like this happening and have a very clear line, like a genetic line, this is what caused this.

01:14:19.000 This is amazing stuff, man. 0.97

01:14:21.000 It's fucking trippy, though. 0.98

01:14:23.000 Sure is. 0.99

01:14:24.000 That's always where you wonder about evolution going wrong. 0.99

01:14:27.000 When you see those animals, you know, you think about wolves and then you see some of the dog species today, I'm like, how the fuck did you come about? 1.00

01:14:33.000 You're not suited for anything, man. 0.99

01:14:35.000 And they've been doing it for thousands of years.

01:14:37.000 That's like a modern dog has been around for thousands of years.

01:14:40.000 We didn't They don't even know the original origin.

01:14:43.000 There's a lot of speculation.

01:14:44.000 They believe that the wolves that were around human beings, they became different because they wanted the people to like them.

01:14:52.000 So they became the more successful ones that stayed with the ones that are a little more timid and more beta.

01:14:58.000 Playful.

01:14:59.000 Yeah.

01:15:00.000 They did a study on foxes, a really interesting study that they highlighted in this Radiolab podcast.

01:15:06.000 But they were talking about genetic diversity in foxes where they only allowed the foxes that were timid and more accepting of human touch and to be around humans,

01:15:25.000 they only allowed them to live.

01:15:26.000 And they sort of like bred Let those breed with other ones.

01:15:31.000 And over like 10 years, they had completely changed the fox DNA. They had completely changed to the point where their ears were no longer pointed.

01:15:39.000 They flopped.

01:15:40.000 They didn't stick straight up.

01:15:41.000 They flopped.

01:15:42.000 Their jaws became more feminine.

01:15:44.000 In ten years.

01:15:45.000 Yeah, and their colors started changing.

01:15:47.000 It's nuts.

01:15:47.000 Yeah.

01:15:48.000 Ten years.

01:15:48.000 It's like three generations maybe for foxes or something.

01:15:51.000 That's crazy.

01:15:51.000 Yeah.

01:15:52.000 I mean, probably more than three generations because, you know, a generation isn't exactly the entire lifetime.

01:15:56.000 It's like how long it takes you to breed into successful...

01:15:59.000 You know, you might leave...

01:16:00.000 A couple of years or something, so maybe five generations.

01:16:03.000 Yeah.

01:16:03.000 It's crazy, though.

01:16:03.000 Still not much.

01:16:04.000 Yeah.

01:16:05.000 Five generations is nothing.

01:16:06.000 Well, that's what they're finding now more and more, the more they study life, is that life can evolve and change and shift and adapt incredibly quickly.

01:16:15.000 Wow.

01:16:16.000 My favorite story of that is the Congo.

01:16:18.000 Because the Congo used to be like a grassland.

01:16:21.000 It used to be a savanna.

01:16:22.000 And then the climate changed and it became this really lush rainforest.

01:16:25.000 But a lot of these animals that were like savanna animals, they got trapped.

01:16:30.000 Right.

01:16:30.000 They are stuck.

01:16:31.000 They're stuck inside this rainforest.

01:16:33.000 So, like, there's this BBC documentary on the Congo, and one of the cool things is seeing this swampy, crazy rainforest, and then seeing these deer run through the water of the rainforest.

01:16:44.000 These antelopes.

01:16:45.000 And you're like, whoa!

01:16:46.000 They're supposed to be in grasslands, and they're just trapped in this insanely dense rainforest.

01:16:53.000 Did they change anything like their habits, anything about their physical features that was dramatically different?

01:17:00.000 Some of them.

01:17:01.000 One of them is called a diker and a diker is a very small antelope but it can swim underwater for up to 100 yards and it eats fish.

01:17:10.000 What the hell?

01:17:12.000 I don't know what I would picture. 0.81

01:17:15.000 100 yards underwater to eat fish. 1.00

01:17:18.000 What the fuck? 1.00

01:17:20.000 It became something that adapted to that environment. 1.00

01:17:24.000 They can eat fish.

01:17:26.000 But they found that deer eat birds.

01:17:28.000 They didn't know that until really recently.

01:17:31.000 And one of the ways they found it was through camera traps.

01:17:35.000 Because they have these trail cams that people put up when they're hunting.

01:17:40.000 And when they put up these trail cams, as the trail cams got more and more sophisticated, they started using video trail cameras.

01:17:47.000 And as the video trail cameras started, you know, they get the data back from them, they started finding, like, occasionally birds, like deer would eat ground-nesting birds.

01:17:57.000 It's so ruined in my Disney fantasies. 0.63

01:18:00.000 You just told me that giraffes spit the shit out of each other, that deer eat birds. 0.94

01:18:05.000 There are no certainties in life anymore. 1.00

01:18:07.000 I know, they're all evil. 0.99

01:18:09.000 Those goddamn animals, the ones that we have anthropomorphized into these beautiful creatures that exist solely on the power of love. 1.00

01:18:17.000 They did some sort of a study where they were capturing... 1.00

01:18:22.000 Certain birds with nets, and they'd set the nets up, and the birds would run into the nets and get caught.

01:18:27.000 Well, the deer would just walk right up to the birds in the nets and just start eating them.

01:18:30.000 Wow.

01:18:31.000 Just chewing them alive while they're in the net.

01:18:33.000 So much for the innocent male deer, huh?

01:18:36.000 Because it wasn't like they were just testing, like trying it out.

01:18:40.000 Like, is this food?

01:18:40.000 No, they just went right to it.

01:18:42.000 So deer apparently eat ground-nesting birds all the time. 0.99

01:18:46.000 Being a ground nesting bird, that looks like shitty human... 0.99

01:18:50.000 That's just bad evolution right there. 1.00

01:18:52.000 What a dog shit life. 1.00

01:18:53.000 What were you thinking? 1.00

01:18:54.000 You're a bird.

01:18:55.000 What the hell are you doing on the ground? 0.75

01:18:57.000 That's just a bad idea. 1.00

01:18:58.000 Don't you know how to put sticks and twigs in the trees, you dumb fuck? 1.00

01:19:01.000 Not that that helps a lot. 1.00

01:19:03.000 It's like where I live, there's regularly, almost on a monthly basis, there's like some cute little birds nesting, the eggs are hatching and everything, and the hawk regularly come by and just rip the shit out of them, and I find Pieces of birds everywhere, and it's pretty nasty.

01:19:19.000 Yeah, my friend Tom was sitting out on his back porch.

01:19:22.000 He was one of the directors of news radio back in the day.

01:19:25.000 Tom Saronis, great guy.

01:19:27.000 And he was in Studio City.

01:19:28.000 And he goes, I'm sitting on...

01:19:29.000 He had this sort of Georgia accent.

01:19:31.000 I'm sitting on my porch, enjoying my coffee, and I see a dove, or some sort of a bird, maybe it was a dove, sitting on the fence.

01:19:41.000 And then, out of nowhere, a hawk comes and snatches that bird up.

01:19:45.000 And he goes, and part of me felt lucky to see that.

01:19:48.000 Right, yeah.

01:19:49.000 Like, lucky, because that doesn't happen every day, but it also, like, made you realize, like, it's hard out there for a pimp.

01:19:55.000 It's a tough ward.

01:19:56.000 Yes.

01:19:56.000 Yeah.

01:19:58.000 And birds eat birds! 0.99

01:20:00.000 That's another fucked up thing. 0.99

01:20:01.000 Yeah, what's with that? 0.99

01:20:02.000 I never thought of that.

01:20:03.000 I saw, not so long ago, I was coming back home and I hear this bird just yapping away, just making this crazy noise.

01:20:09.000 I'm like, what the hell?

01:20:10.000 And I look up in the tree and I see this one bird just...

01:20:13.000 Just mad, just going...

01:20:14.000 And then I see that right next to it, like maybe 10 feet away, there's this hawk that has another bird in his mouth that looks exactly like the one that's yelling. 1.00

01:20:23.000 So this one is probably like saying, you son of a bitch, you are just eating my wife. 1.00

01:20:27.000 That's not right. 1.00

01:20:28.000 And it's like...

01:20:29.000 I was like, man, that's a rough life right there.

01:20:32.000 Yeah, hawks jack everybody.

01:20:34.000 Yep. 0.74

01:20:34.000 Everybody gets jacked. 0.74

01:20:35.000 Except I saw once a YouTube video of a hawk committing suicide by eagle.

01:20:40.000 Decide to attack an eagle's nest.

01:20:42.000 Oh, no.

01:20:43.000 It's not a good idea.

01:20:44.000 You see this eagle who's just like minding his business.

01:20:46.000 It's this big, bold eagle.

01:20:48.000 And then clearly before even the camera picks up, because the camera, I guess, was set on the nest to capture whatever was going on there.

01:20:54.000 You see this eagle just suddenly see something and busts up, like ready for the fight.

01:20:59.000 And the next thing you see is this hawk coming in, just fighting with the eagle.

01:21:03.000 And it lasts about six seconds as the eagle just goes whack, whack, and just rip the hawk to pieces.

01:21:08.000 It's like, you know, I'm glad you beat all the other birds, but an eagle is an eagle.

01:21:12.000 Step away.

01:21:13.000 You're beginning to overestimate your skills here, man.

01:21:17.000 It got drunk.

01:21:18.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:21:19.000 It got drunk and started to take on an eagle.

01:21:20.000 Maybe ate some fermented berries or something. 1.00

01:21:22.000 They're Fucking eagle, they think they are all that. 0.99

01:21:24.000 I'm gonna show them right now. 1.00

01:21:26.000 And yeah, that did not work.

01:21:27.000 It's interesting that birds fly in flocks, right?

01:21:31.000 Like Canadian geese and ducks and sparrows.

01:21:35.000 But not the ones that eat meat.

01:21:36.000 No.

01:21:37.000 The ones that eat meat. 1.00

01:21:38.000 You're on your own, bitch. 1.00

01:21:39.000 Yep. 1.00

01:21:39.000 You know? 1.00

01:21:40.000 There's probably this competition.

01:21:44.000 Something about that flesh.

01:21:46.000 Something about eating that meat just changes the whole dynamic of the situation.

01:21:50.000 The ones that eat the meat.

01:21:51.000 Speaking of which, after seeing your Instagram picture of your elk dinner, I'm like, I want in.

01:21:57.000 I'm going to be knocking on the Rogan side.

01:21:59.000 Dude, I got some elk for you. 1.00

01:22:00.000 Fuck, I wish I had gone to the... 1.00

01:22:02.000 I have to... 1.00

01:22:02.000 Get some, but I have a freezer in the back. 1.00

01:22:05.000 I'll hook you up.

01:22:06.000 Next time I see you, I'll bring you some elk steaks.

01:22:08.000 Beautiful.

01:22:08.000 You'll love it.

01:22:09.000 I'll teach you how to cook it, too.

01:22:10.000 It's a little different because there's very little fat.

01:22:13.000 You have to cook it quick.

01:22:14.000 The easiest to cook, I'll give you some ground elk is the easiest to cook, like elk burgers.

01:22:18.000 Super high protein, too.

01:22:20.000 I think it's 22 grams of protein per pound, which is way more than domestic beef.

01:22:28.000 Right.

01:22:29.000 I think the highest is elk and the second highest is moose.

01:22:34.000 Those are the highest of that type of animal that you can get.

01:22:38.000 But it's really delicious too, man.

01:22:40.000 So good.

01:22:40.000 I love it.

01:22:41.000 So good for you too.

01:22:43.000 And you don't have to feel guilty about factory farming and all that other.

01:22:47.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:22:47.000 I mean, if you're going to eat meat, might as well.

01:22:49.000 It's better that wild and had a good life and that's it. 0.97

01:22:53.000 You know, factory farming sucks. 0.62

01:22:55.000 Have you ever seen an eagle in the wild? 0.97

01:22:57.000 Yeah.

01:22:59.000 Wild to see, right?

01:23:00.000 When you see one in real life, you're like, God, those things are big.

01:23:02.000 South Dakota.

01:23:03.000 Yeah, I've seen them.

01:23:04.000 South Dakota?

01:23:04.000 Yeah.

01:23:05.000 There's a crazy video online from Alaska of this kid and his whole family.

01:23:12.000 Their lawn is covered with bald eagles, and they were throwing out fish. 0.93

01:23:18.000 They had some salmon, so they had filleted the salmon, and then they had the bottoms, the ribs and the heads and all that stuff, and they had thrown it out for these eagles, and their fucking lawn is just overwhelmed with bald eagles.

01:23:32.000 So we like to think of bald eagles as being something extremely endangered and protected.

01:23:38.000 Alaska is a different story, I guess.

01:23:39.000 It's a totally different story.

01:23:40.000 They're protected in some places, but in Alaska they're not protected.

01:23:44.000 Yeah.

01:23:44.000 I mean, not that they're not protected, I should say.

01:23:46.000 They're endangered in a lot of places, but they're not endangered in Alaska.

01:23:49.000 They're still protected.

01:23:50.000 Yeah, I know.

01:23:50.000 Here it is.

01:23:51.000 Like, look at all these.

01:23:52.000 No way.

01:23:53.000 Yeah.

01:23:54.000 So what's the name of this video, Jamie?

01:23:56.000 It says 1 p.m.

01:23:57.000 on a summer night in...

01:23:59.000 How is that a summer night?

01:24:01.000 It's 11 p.m.

01:24:02.000 Oh.

01:24:03.000 You can't see the other one.

01:24:04.000 I was like, you inbreds.

01:24:08.000 It's not night just because it's p.m.

01:24:10.000 But look at all these eagles, man.

01:24:13.000 And the ones that aren't black with white, those are the immature ones. 0.87

01:24:18.000 Those are the young ones. 0.99

01:24:19.000 And sometimes those young ones are fucking enormous, man. 0.99

01:24:23.000 Yeah, they don't look small, that's for sure. 0.99

01:24:25.000 No, they're all over this guy's lawn.

01:24:28.000 And they throw these buckets of fish out for them.

01:24:33.000 But they have eagles all over the place up there.

01:24:36.000 In California we have some eagles still.

01:24:38.000 We have golden eagles.

01:24:39.000 They still find them.

01:24:41.000 But they're just not, for whatever reason, not nearly as common as they are up there in Alaska.

01:24:45.000 I guess it's also probably because they have a lot of food up there with all the salmon.

01:24:48.000 The salmon runs.

01:24:51.000 This is just one part of the video.

01:24:54.000 This video is pretty long.

01:24:55.000 But see, they're sitting around waiting for this guy to chuck fish heads for them.

01:25:03.000 It's just an amazing animal.

01:25:06.000 This animal, this flying raptor that really is probably exactly like what the dinosaurs are like.

01:25:14.000 It's fascinating when they find more and more evidence that many dinosaurs had feathers.

01:25:20.000 And I think there's really probably not much difference between some birds...

01:25:24.000 Like eagles, and some dinosaurs.

01:25:27.000 And then they know that some birds, even birds that lived fairly recently, like the terror birds, They were these large, flightless, six-foot, seven-foot-tall birds.

01:25:40.000 He's going to go for the head.

01:25:41.000 Look at him.

01:25:42.000 He's like, should I get that head? 1.00

01:25:43.000 I want to get that head, but that fucking dude with the camera. 1.00

01:25:46.000 He's still close. 1.00

01:25:46.000 He's thinking about it. 1.00

01:25:47.000 Look at his little baby steps. 1.00

01:25:48.000 Oh, pussy. 1.00

01:25:49.000 Backing out. 1.00

01:25:50.000 Pussy. 1.00

01:25:51.000 No head for you, faggot. 1.00

01:25:54.000 He's swooping in, trying to get a hole. 1.00

01:25:58.000 This one is more mature.

01:26:00.000 He's got a little bit more confidence.

01:26:02.000 Jack!

01:26:03.000 There you go.

01:26:03.000 I love it.

01:26:04.000 I love how they just swoop in and grab it. 0.99

01:26:07.000 Goddamn, they're awesome animals. 0.98

01:26:09.000 I find the world of nature to be unbelievably beautiful and exciting and crazy, but for whatever reason, I'm way more thrilled by the predators. 0.98

01:26:22.000 When I see things like this, when I see raptors, that's what excites me.

01:26:27.000 If I see some sparrows or something like that, I think we can relate more in the sense of, you know, as human beings, we have, you know, hunting and gathering has been, what, 95% of the time we've been around.

01:26:41.000 It's what we did.

01:26:42.000 It's what has been the norm for human beings for the longest period of time.

01:26:46.000 Yeah, but there's just something about dangerous things.

01:26:48.000 I want to show you this picture that somebody sent me.

01:26:51.000 This family friend has chickens, and they caught a bobcat eating their chickens. 1.00

01:26:59.000 Look at this fucker, Jamie. 1.00

01:27:02.000 Whoa. 1.00

01:27:02.000 Yeah, hold it up to the camera, see if people can see it. 1.00

01:27:05.000 This is...

01:27:08.000 This is like, I think they live in Woodland Hills.

01:27:11.000 Yeah, there's all sorts of stuff out there.

01:27:12.000 They're not far away from here at all.

01:27:13.000 That's what's trippy is that, you know, now, for the longest time, I live closer to the water.

01:27:18.000 Now that I'm living inland, I'm kind of close to Glendale, to the hills, up in Eagle Rock and stuff.

01:27:23.000 It's crazy the stuff that you find running around in the middle of houses you see everywhere.

01:27:28.000 Skunks, foxes, raccoons.

01:27:29.000 Yeah, all the time. 0.98

01:27:31.000 The other day was fucking hilarious. 0.97

01:27:33.000 I'm coming back home. 0.98

01:27:34.000 I was teaching a night class.

01:27:35.000 So I come back home.

01:27:36.000 It's probably like 10.30 p.m.

01:27:38.000 or something.

01:27:39.000 I arrive.

01:27:40.000 I'm walking through my garden.

01:27:41.000 It's pretty pitch black.

01:27:42.000 And just maybe 20 feet to my right, I hear just something growling at me, right?

01:27:49.000 And I don't know, it completely skipped my rational brain.

01:27:52.000 There was no thought in my mind.

01:27:53.000 The next thing I hear is this meaner, heavier growl and I realize, oh wait, that's me. 0.99

01:27:58.000 It's me growling at whatever other fucking thing was there. 0.99

01:28:01.000 What was it? 0.99

01:28:03.000 Just pissed off, right? 0.99

01:28:04.000 I never know because whatever the other thing was decided, okay, you're fucking crazier than me so I believe it because I had it. 0.95

01:28:10.000 I honestly don't think he was anything big. 0.96

01:28:12.000 I think he was probably like some pissed off raccoon trying to show that they are tough and they are not really.

01:28:17.000 I don't think he was any.

01:28:19.000 Because coyotes wouldn't growl.

01:28:21.000 If they want you, they come after you, but they're not going to growl.

01:28:24.000 And they don't, because they are small, so they mind their business. 1.00

01:28:26.000 Mountain lion wouldn't, and it's very rare anyway, so it's probably a stupid raccoon or something. 1.00

01:28:31.000 Yeah, he probably got too close to his garbage stash. 0.99

01:28:33.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:28:33.000 And he was all trying to...

01:28:36.000 Yeah, this was a bobcat. 1.00

01:28:37.000 This fucking crazy mangy looking creepy animal. 0.99

01:28:40.000 And like I said, this is like real close to where the studio is. 1.00

01:28:43.000 And this is a guy had a chicken coop and this thing figured out how to get in his chicken coop and was eating one of his chickens in his coop and found it. 1.00

01:28:50.000 What a creepy looking face on that fucker. 1.00

01:28:52.000 Look at that. 1.00

01:28:53.000 Looks like a mean bastard. 1.00

01:28:55.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:28:55.000 Oh, he's out there earning. 1.00

01:28:57.000 He's earning his keep.

01:28:58.000 He's not getting any welfare in the form of cat food.

01:29:01.000 Yeah, nobody's handing.

01:29:01.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:29:02.000 He's giving him shit. 1.00

01:29:03.000 How big do Bobcats get? 1.00

01:29:05.000 They get like 30 or 40 pounds, right?

01:29:06.000 They're pretty big.

01:29:07.000 Yeah, but I would imagine our coyote is bigger, somewhere around there. 0.99

01:29:12.000 I bet coyotes don't fuck with Bobcats. 0.99

01:29:14.000 Probably not. 0.99

01:29:15.000 Yeah, I bet it's too much work. 1.00

01:29:17.000 I mean, they probably could kill them if they got a bunch of them together, but it probably tastes like shit. 1.00

01:29:21.000 Right. 1.00

01:29:21.000 It's probably like chewing a shoe. 1.00

01:29:23.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:29:24.000 It's like it's old muscle, there's no softness.

01:29:27.000 Yeah.

01:29:27.000 You know what apparently tastes good?

01:29:29.000 It's mountain lion.

01:29:30.000 Really?

01:29:30.000 Yeah.

01:29:31.000 I know this guy in Colorado.

01:29:32.000 In Colorado, they're pretty...

01:29:34.000 There's a bunch.

01:29:35.000 They're good about taking care of them, too.

01:29:37.000 They have mountain lion seasons, and they try to keep the populations down.

01:29:41.000 Some people argue, saying that they're killing too many, and this and that.

01:29:45.000 You shouldn't kill them, but...

01:29:48.000 There needs to be some sort of a balance. 0.98

01:29:50.000 Otherwise, they start appearing on people's lawns and killing people's animals.

01:29:54.000 California has a real problem because they don't allow people to hunt them.

01:29:57.000 They have a lot of coyotes or a lot of mountain lions, and that's one of the reasons why the deer population in California is so low.

01:30:04.000 They're up, of course.

01:30:05.000 Yeah.

01:30:05.000 And some people like it that way.

01:30:06.000 They think, well, that's the natural balance.

01:30:08.000 Really shouldn't have that many deer around.

01:30:09.000 And ultimately, I mean, I can see that point where it's probably better to have a lot of mountain lion than it is a lot of Lyme disease from ticks and a lot of deer slamming into cars like you do in places that don't have high mountain lion populations.

01:30:23.000 You know, like Michigan or something like that, where they have a lot of them. 0.98

01:30:27.000 What the fuck was my point? 0.99

01:30:30.000 That we should eat mountain lions. 0.99

01:30:31.000 Oh, they taste good.

01:30:32.000 These guys that I know that hunt them in Colorado.

01:30:35.000 And I said, really?

01:30:36.000 I'm like, what does it taste like?

01:30:37.000 And he goes, it's a lot like pork.

01:30:38.000 It tastes like pork loin.

01:30:39.000 Yeah.

01:30:40.000 They take the back strap from a mountain lion and, you know, they roast it.

01:30:45.000 That's weird because usually the big muscular predators are not exactly what you think of what you want to eat.

01:30:51.000 Yeah.

01:30:52.000 Apparently it tastes really good.

01:30:53.000 They said it tastes really good.

01:30:54.000 Like this one guy that I was talking to, it's one of his favorite meats.

01:30:56.000 He said it tastes just like a pork roast.

01:30:58.000 They make it with like a blueberry sauce.

01:31:00.000 I'm getting nature school today.

01:31:02.000 I found out that giraffes are cunts, that deer eat birds, that you can eat a mountain lion.

01:31:10.000 You know, all sorts of goodies.

01:31:11.000 There's all sorts of things to be learned out there about the wild natural world.

01:31:17.000 Like I said, there's something about the predators that I find just unbelievably fascinating.

01:31:22.000 And I think it's because they have to be so explosive and so quick and so dangerous in order to get what they want to get.

01:31:33.000 They can't just walk around and chew on grass.

01:31:36.000 Like cows. 0.75

01:31:37.000 Nobody gets excited when they see a cow.

01:31:39.000 Because it's just... 0.99

01:31:40.000 Even if it wasn't so common, they're fucking boring. 0.98

01:31:44.000 Buffalo, they're the same, but at least they have cool hair. 0.98

01:31:48.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:31:50.000 They make some grunting sounds that are...

01:31:53.000 Yeah, buffaloes are cool. 0.93

01:31:54.000 I ended up once in the middle of a herd of buffalo in...

01:31:58.000 Custer State Park in South Dakota.

01:32:00.000 Really?

01:32:01.000 Where I took like, they have, you know, the irregular roads that you can take with the car.

01:32:05.000 Then they have some dirt roads that you can still take with the car.

01:32:07.000 So I was kind of off the beaten path.

01:32:09.000 And all of a sudden, I find myself in the middle of like probably 300 buffaloes.

01:32:13.000 So I kind of stop the car, wait there, and they are going everywhere around me, right?

01:32:18.000 There's like one side to the car, the other in front of me, behind me.

01:32:21.000 And they are big, powerful animals.

01:32:24.000 You know, you see them, you're praying not to piss them off because they are solid, you know, they don't mess around.

01:32:29.000 He was awesome, though. 0.99

01:32:30.000 I mean, once I figured, okay, these guys don't want to fuck with me, they just want to move around me and they don't care, he was great because you see all the calves running after them. 0.99

01:32:38.000 They're beautiful. 0.99

01:32:39.000 They're really awesome animals.

01:32:41.000 And, yeah, that's the thing with all wild species that are cooler than, you know, all the domesticated species tend to be dumber, tend to be a lot like, Oh, somebody's going to bring me food anyway.

01:32:53.000 Yeah.

01:32:53.000 In the wild, you die, you know.

01:32:54.000 You need to be on...

01:32:56.000 It's like when you see a dog and you see a coyote.

01:32:58.000 Coyotes are silent. 0.97

01:32:59.000 You don't hear them make a damn noise. 0.97

01:33:01.000 You see them and you're like, oh, is that a dog? 0.84

01:33:03.000 And in three seconds, you know it's not a dog because the way they move, the way they...

01:33:06.000 It's a whole different game.

01:33:08.000 Most dogs are all damp and happy and they're like, oh, oh, oh, I'm here, I'm doing...

01:33:12.000 They are way noisier.

01:33:14.000 It's...

01:33:14.000 Coyotes are sneaky.

01:33:15.000 Yeah, the wilder version is always...

01:33:18.000 You don't cut it if you're not smart in the wild.

01:33:21.000 It's a hard life.

01:33:22.000 It's a hard life.

01:33:23.000 And they have this air about them.

01:33:27.000 They're just trying to catch something, trying to sneak it around.

01:33:30.000 The first time I saw a coyote was in Burbank in 1994 when I first moved here.

01:33:34.000 I was staying at the Oakwoods.

01:33:36.000 The Oakwoods, they have these pre-furnished apartments.

01:33:39.000 That's where I lived.

01:33:40.000 And I was driving to my place and I saw this dog on the road and another dog next to him. 0.99

01:33:44.000 And I was like, Oh shit, that's a wolf. 0.99

01:33:47.000 And I realized, oh that's a coyote. 0.99

01:33:50.000 That's a live coyote.

01:33:51.000 And I realized, those are wild coyotes.

01:33:53.000 And they're just wandering through Burbank. 0.99

01:33:55.000 How fucking strange that they can just exist on the streets. 0.98

01:34:00.000 I figured if you lived in the rural areas, you'd encounter them. 1.00

01:34:04.000 But I didn't realize that they had actually gone deep, deep, deep into the cities in search of cats and shit. 0.99

01:34:10.000 Big time. 0.99

01:34:11.000 I found one in my yard not so long ago, and it was getting a bit too comfortable.

01:34:16.000 It was just kind of roaming around.

01:34:18.000 I was like, first, you're like, oh, this is so cool.

01:34:20.000 I can't believe I'm seeing this.

01:34:21.000 After a while, like, okay, they're getting a little too comfortable in my backyard.

01:34:25.000 Especially because you have a kid.

01:34:26.000 And I walked out, and, you know, so the coyotes are moving away, and then I realized, what the hell am I doing?

01:34:31.000 I'm putting a wild animal with his back against the fence.

01:34:34.000 That can be a good idea.

01:34:35.000 That's...

01:34:35.000 But that was my sweet illusion because my idea of the fence, like I took a look at me and was like, you call this a fence?

01:34:42.000 It was like probably a good six-foot fence and he just jumped it in one thing without even just, it's like, these will keep out a dog. 0.98

01:34:49.000 Those stupid things you may keep around, but me, I got something else going on. 0.98

01:34:53.000 And I was like, okay, wild animals are a whole different game, but... 1.00

01:34:57.000 Yeah.

01:34:58.000 Yeah, I had a coyote kill one of my chickens.

01:35:00.000 Hopped my fence like it was nothing.

01:35:01.000 Really?

01:35:02.000 Yeah, I watched him hop the fence with the chicken in his mouth.

01:35:04.000 I was like, wow.

01:35:05.000 That was...

01:35:06.000 They're powerful. 1.00

01:35:07.000 Motherfucker. 1.00

01:35:08.000 Well, when chickens brood, you have to remove them from their regular nest because they'll sit in the nesting box and they'll pull their feathers off and they get sick. 1.00

01:35:18.000 And they can do it for like a month and a half at a time.

01:35:20.000 So what you got to do is you got to put them in a small cage for a couple days where they have to stand on a rail.

01:35:26.000 They have to clutch and sit on this rail.

01:35:29.000 And you do that for a couple days and then they'll get over their brooding instincts and get normal again.

01:35:33.000 It's just a cycle because they're not having sex.

01:35:36.000 Oh, is that what it is?

01:35:37.000 Yeah, because they're not having sex.

01:35:38.000 Like, when you eat an egg, I didn't know this until really late in life, but an egg is...

01:35:44.000 Get you ready for a new piece of information.

01:35:46.000 Let's go.

01:35:46.000 I thought an egg would become a chicken.

01:35:48.000 This is how retarded I am. 0.98

01:35:49.000 I thought the only way that a chicken makes an egg is if she gets fucked by a rooster, and then an egg comes out, and then they sit on the egg, and it becomes a chicken, and you just got to get the egg before the chicken hatches, and you cook it. 0.98

01:36:01.000 That's not the case.

01:36:02.000 That's my understanding of it, so please enlighten me now.

01:36:05.000 They actually lay eggs all the time with no males involved whatsoever.

01:36:11.000 So I have 22 chickens, I have no males, they're all females, and they lay usually, if not an egg a day, at the very least an egg every other day.

01:36:22.000 Close, okay.

01:36:22.000 And those eggs will never be chickens.

01:36:25.000 Never. 0.78

01:36:26.000 So people that are vegetarians that don't eat eggs, Like, you're really silly, because it's animal protein that doesn't hurt anybody.

01:36:34.000 These chickens, they lay these eggs, whether you like them or not.

01:36:36.000 And if you don't eat them, they just rot.

01:36:38.000 Right.

01:36:38.000 You just, you know.

01:36:40.000 But these chickens, I would take them when they were brooding, and then I'd put them in this other box.

01:36:48.000 And the other box was outside of their coop.

01:36:50.000 Right.

01:36:50.000 And it was, you know, fairly secure, but this coyote had figured out how to tip it over and got the chicken, and he had them in his mouth.

01:36:59.000 And I watched him hold it in his mouth and run through my yard with it in his mouth. 1.00

01:37:03.000 I'm like, this motherfucker! 1.00

01:37:04.000 And I opened the door thinking, like, maybe I would be able to get to him before he could jump the fence with the chicken. 1.00

01:37:09.000 Nope.

01:37:10.000 Not even closer.

01:37:11.000 Just leapt over it like it was nothing.

01:37:13.000 Boing! 0.99

01:37:14.000 Exactly.

01:37:15.000 Their ability is amazing.

01:37:16.000 And a mountain lion?

01:37:17.000 Way crazier. 1.00

01:37:19.000 They can just do ridiculous shit. 1.00

01:37:20.000 They can jump like 12 foot fences. 1.00

01:37:22.000 That would freak me out.

01:37:23.000 In the wild, the mountain lion, if you don't have any weapons on New York, that's not a good thing.

01:37:29.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:37:30.000 That's scary shit. 1.00

01:37:31.000 Definitely scary shit. 1.00

01:37:32.000 There's a video of this guy hiking and he's hiking and as he's hiking this mountain lion just sitting there staring at him watching him. 1.00

01:37:37.000 He's on this trail and he starts making noise and smacking sticks against the ground but it's like that guy probably came super close to getting eaten.

01:37:45.000 Yep.

01:37:45.000 And if he was smaller especially if he was like a small woman.

01:37:50.000 Yep.

01:37:50.000 There was a case a few years ago in Griffith Park there was some lady got eaten by a mountain lion while hiking.

01:37:57.000 Yeah.

01:37:59.000 I'm not surprised.

01:38:00.000 They're out there.

01:38:01.000 There's a lot of them. 1.00

01:38:03.000 They track quite a few of them, but I guess when it comes to large, big predators, it's probably one of the best ones to have around because they have plenty of shit that they eat. 0.99

01:38:16.000 They keep away from people for the most part. 0.96

01:38:18.000 But it is weird that we just...

01:38:20.000 Not only do we want to help them, they're setting up these...

01:38:25.000 They're like bridges that go across the highway because one of the ways that mountain lions die is trying to cross the highway.

01:38:31.000 They try to cross to 101 and they get nailed. 1.00

01:38:33.000 I say fuck them. 1.00

01:38:35.000 You're too stupid. 1.00

01:38:36.000 You're so stupid. 1.00

01:38:37.000 Learn how to cross traffic. 1.00

01:38:38.000 Dumb fucking cat. 1.00

01:38:44.000 It's so stupid, you run into traffic. 1.00

01:38:46.000 It's not a cat that needs to be around. 1.00

01:38:49.000 That's nature's way of thinning the herd. 0.99

01:38:52.000 There's a lot of them.

01:38:54.000 We don't really need to protect them that much.

01:38:56.000 They need to spend millions of dollars building a bridge. 0.75

01:38:58.000 How about clean up Skid Row?

01:39:00.000 How about work on those animals?

01:39:03.000 I like to go to Big Bear because, you know, it's only two hours away from me or something, but it's awesome.

01:39:08.000 It's like a whole other environment.

01:39:09.000 It's beautiful, the trees, everything.

01:39:12.000 So I like to go out there.

01:39:13.000 And the place where I usually go, I was chatting with some neighbors and they were telling me, yeah, you know, these days bears have stopped coming around.

01:39:21.000 I'm like, why?

01:39:22.000 What's up?

01:39:22.000 He's like, oh, because a mountain lion moved into the neighborhood and even they are freaked out by him.

01:39:27.000 I mean, the bears in Big Bear are not this huge They're black bears.

01:39:31.000 Exactly.

01:39:32.000 And appearing to this mountain lion is extra aggressive and the bears decided, let's move to a nicer neighborhood.

01:39:38.000 Oh, so one gangster mountain lion moved in?

01:39:40.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:39:41.000 And so I was hiking around and it was probably 6 p.m.

01:39:45.000 and I'm like, do I really want to do this at this time?

01:39:47.000 This does not seem like the best plan in the world right now.

01:39:52.000 No weapons.

01:39:53.000 Yeah, I don't like this too much. 0.99

01:39:55.000 Yeah, you gotta go with like a fucking full hockey outfit on. 0.98

01:39:58.000 Maybe a football pads and some chain mail. 0.98

01:40:03.000 They're not gonna get you though.

01:40:04.000 They have things to eat.

01:40:05.000 They have plenty of things to eat.

01:40:07.000 Most of the time mountain lions don't want to have anything to do with people.

01:40:09.000 Yeah, of course.

01:40:10.000 It's the sick old ones that they need food so bad that they're willing to take a chance on a person.

01:40:16.000 Of course.

01:40:16.000 But for the most part, even if you do like...

01:40:19.000 The natural selection process has probably eliminated people from their diet because every mountain lion that chose to eat a person was killed.

01:40:26.000 Exactly.

01:40:28.000 Somehow or another...

01:40:30.000 They know.

01:40:30.000 Yeah, they know.

01:40:31.000 Don't fuck with those bipedal... 1.00

01:40:33.000 But if they think they can get away with it... 1.00

01:40:35.000 Why not?

01:40:36.000 Of course.

01:40:37.000 But, you know, as beautiful as they are, they are...

01:40:42.000 They're terrifying and they're ferocious and everything.

01:40:45.000 But I would be way more thrilled to see one of those than I would to see something that doesn't kill things.

01:40:52.000 It's weird, right?

01:40:53.000 I think it goes back to the same thing we were talking about regarding history.

01:40:57.000 Why is it that we're fascinated with that?

01:40:58.000 And we are.

01:40:59.000 There's no denying it. 0.99

01:41:00.000 And it would be bullshit to pretend. 0.51

01:41:01.000 No, I like peace and mellow and I like to see people shake hands. 0.80

01:41:06.000 And it's like...

01:41:07.000 There's a beauty to some mellow, peaceful stuff, but we dig.

01:41:11.000 Why do we fight it?

01:41:13.000 It's what it is, right?

01:41:15.000 That's the game.

01:41:16.000 In nature, we like it.

01:41:18.000 We like it among history.

01:41:20.000 Consequences.

01:41:20.000 Half of it is about the conflict and the wars.

01:41:23.000 It's all about that stuff.

01:41:27.000 Conflict and consequences.

01:41:28.000 If you were in the ocean and you saw a big marlin, like, wow, that'd be cool.

01:41:34.000 Wow, look at that marlin.

01:41:35.000 But if you saw a shark eat the marlin, it'd be way more exciting.

01:41:41.000 Whales are cool to see.

01:41:42.000 They're beautiful to see.

01:41:43.000 But a killer whale is way cooler than a regular whale.

01:41:47.000 There's that something's gonna happen here.

01:41:50.000 Something exciting and dramatic is going on.

01:41:53.000 A shark.

01:41:53.000 A shark is way cooler than a regular fish.

01:41:55.000 Yeah, there's something about those type of animals.

01:41:58.000 I would love to go to Africa in a safari if it wasn't for malaria and Ebola.

01:42:06.000 If it wasn't for those 57 reasons, yes, that would be... 1.00

01:42:09.000 Fucking parasites and all kinds of crazy shit. 1.00

01:42:11.000 I would love to go to Africa just in the off chance of seeing a lion take something down on a safari. 1.00

01:42:18.000 I would love to go and see that.

01:42:20.000 I'd love to witness that.

01:42:21.000 I wonder how often that takes place, like when you go on one of those safaris.

01:42:25.000 I wonder how often you actually see something get jacked.

01:42:28.000 Yeah, even just because they are hunting doesn't mean they're going to be successful because, of course, a bunch of times you fail.

01:42:34.000 And I think that's part of the interesting conflict is something's going to happen and the two sides, whoever the two sides are, are trying opposite things.

01:42:44.000 So there's this conflict of will and somebody's going to get their way and somebody isn't.

01:42:48.000 So there's that element of excitement that almost makes you want to bet on it like, Who's going to win?

01:42:53.000 Who's going to step up with their A game and succeed?

01:42:57.000 Who's going to fall miserably?

01:42:58.000 It's cool when you watch fights.

01:43:01.000 It's cool when you watch anything.

01:43:02.000 Even if it's not a fight, if it's the lion chasing the gazelle, it's like, can the gazelle speed leave the lion in the dust and just leave him pissed off and hungry?

01:43:12.000 Or is it going to...

01:43:12.000 There's that question there.

01:43:14.000 It's like, let's see how they play their cards when life is on the line, you know?

01:43:17.000 Yeah, and that contemplation of how the outcome's gonna go down, like, that, for whatever reason, is one of the most compelling things that people can watch.

01:43:28.000 We're so strange in that regard.

01:43:31.000 That is, like, one of the most interesting things for people.

01:43:36.000 I mean, that's why the Romans, I mean, when they were feeding lions or Christians, that's what that was all about. 1.00

01:43:43.000 It's like to see how long that guy can last in there.

01:43:46.000 Just to gross out your listeners, check this out.

01:43:49.000 This is a nasty story that I did not know about.

01:43:52.000 So one thing that would happen was after they would have the beasts either fight each other or they would have the lions eat Christians or something, then a typical thing is that after the end of the day when a whole bunch of these animals have been killed in one fight or another, The Roman emperors,

01:44:09.000 to kind of look cool and popular with the crowds, would then distribute the meat to all the poor people of Rome.

01:44:15.000 So all the animals killed in the arena would then be eaten by all the poorest people in Rome as a freebie. 1.00

01:44:21.000 Because you're a poor person, and you're more likely than not, a lot of people in Rome were pretty close to starving a lot of the times, nothing got to be thrown away.

01:44:30.000 You eat anything, right?

01:44:31.000 You eat the whole animal.

01:44:33.000 Whatever they give you, you eat it.

01:44:35.000 So what does that mean?

01:44:36.000 That means that among other things that would end up as weird exotic dish on a Roman table, sometimes you get also the interiors of animals that have just been eating people.

01:44:49.000 So through via second hand you're also eating people since you're eating stomach contents of a lion that just got killed in the arena and that lion just finished feeding on a Christian so you're having a lion Christian burger for yourself. 0.91

01:45:05.000 This is just something you just found out about?

01:45:07.000 Maybe three, four years ago.

01:45:08.000 I was doing some research on gladiators and games and all of that.

01:45:12.000 And I started picking that same information in a bunch of sources. 0.95

01:45:15.000 I'm like, okay, so this is not bullshit. 0.94

01:45:17.000 This is... 0.90

01:45:18.000 So is that something they discussed in the history texts?

01:45:20.000 Yeah.

01:45:20.000 Like, they discussed that people would talk about accidentally eating people?

01:45:24.000 Or, like, how would they say it?

01:45:25.000 Yeah.

01:45:25.000 Essentially, they were like, hey, people ate the whole thing.

01:45:29.000 There was no—nothing was thrown away.

01:45:31.000 The whole thing was—and I guess—I don't know if there were primary sources that referred to this that were reported.

01:45:37.000 I forget the exact, you know, the smoking guns that say, yeah, this is what happened.

01:45:41.000 But I remember seeing it in enough secondary sources to say, okay, there's something to that story.

01:45:46.000 I didn't know there was any history at all of people eating lions.

01:45:49.000 Yeah, I mean, you wouldn't as a choice.

01:45:52.000 But if you are a starving plebeian in Rome, it's nothing else.

01:45:56.000 And the emperor says, look what a nice guy I am.

01:45:59.000 I'm giving you a lion's stomach.

01:46:00.000 Please, have fun.

01:46:03.000 That is the civilization that we always point to when we talk about excess leading to chaos, leading to...

01:46:12.000 The decline of civilization. 0.99

01:46:13.000 We always talk about Rome, but isn't the United States way more fucked up and decadent than Rome ever was, except for feeding Christians to lions? 0.98

01:46:24.000 Other than that, if you look at the overall numbers of death Yeah, there's a lot of strange stuff going on. 0.99

01:46:31.000 The shit that we've done to the environment, shit that we've done, I mean, just a sheer number of human beings you're dealing with, 350, what is it, somewhere 350 million? 0.94

01:46:41.000 Yeah, it's a lot. 0.99

01:46:44.000 It's crazy that they got to the point where they were entertaining themselves by bringing in gigantic predators.

01:46:52.000 Like, how far is Rome from Africa? 0.99

01:46:54.000 How the fuck do they get lions? 0.99

01:46:55.000 Yeah, they would have hunters in Africa trap them. 0.99

01:46:59.000 How'd they trap them?

01:47:00.000 I guess set up a bait on something.

01:47:03.000 They would fall in a big pit where they can climb their way out.

01:47:09.000 And then, I don't know exactly how they get a cage on them.

01:47:13.000 I'm sure a lot of people died to provide the lions for Rome, and then you ship them by boat through Sicily, then they send up to Rome.

01:47:21.000 And they did it to a level that they say that the animal population of North Africa changed completely because of the Roman games. 0.55

01:47:31.000 Really?

01:47:31.000 Because they were killing thousands upon thousands of them, that they literally, they drove some species extinct in North Africa, at least in that part, you know.

01:47:39.000 What the fuck? 0.99

01:47:40.000 Yeah that's on such a massive scale they were doing it. 1.00

01:47:44.000 All for the games.

01:47:46.000 And the Roman... 0.62

01:47:48.000 The guys were setting up the games.

01:47:50.000 They were kind of like...

01:47:51.000 Remember when Pride was on and there was this wacky Japanese matchmaking where they would have like, let's throw the 600-pound hood against the 150-pound. 1.00

01:47:59.000 Let's see what happens.

01:48:00.000 You know, it's like...

01:48:01.000 Roman's matchmakers were like Japanese matchmakers. 0.96

01:48:04.000 They had those ideas.

01:48:05.000 It's like, I wonder what happens if we throw a lion and a bear.

01:48:08.000 Let's see what...

01:48:09.000 You know, let's try...

01:48:10.000 They would do that stuff all the time.

01:48:11.000 Was there a civilization...

01:48:13.000 Like that before them?

01:48:14.000 Or did they invent these kind of games?

01:48:17.000 Probably the gladiatorial stuff was ancient in Greece.

01:48:22.000 And some people think about the Etruscans as well.

01:48:24.000 There may have been some origin there.

01:48:26.000 Because the story about the gladiators is that it started out as human sacrifice.

01:48:30.000 That they would do it rather than...

01:48:32.000 Originally, they probably sacrificed somebody on the grave of some important person.

01:48:35.000 Because the idea was that their blood was feeding the spirit of the dead.

01:48:39.000 Mm-hmm.

01:48:40.000 Then probably somebody said, hey, how about instead of sacrificing me, I give you entertainment so we have a nice big fight.

01:48:45.000 I get the other prisoner of war.

01:48:47.000 We go at it.

01:48:48.000 One of us die.

01:48:49.000 It doesn't have to be me. 0.87

01:48:49.000 I have at least a shot. 0.87

01:48:51.000 One of us, the blood will feed the dead, and the other one got to walk home alive.

01:48:55.000 And they decided, hey, cool.

01:48:56.000 It's like we got entertainment on top of the sacrifice.

01:48:59.000 That's one of the popular theories.

01:49:00.000 Do you think it was the prisoner's idea, or do you think it was like some...

01:49:04.000 I would think there would more likely be some sadistic ruler's idea.

01:49:07.000 Like you want to live?

01:49:09.000 Yeah, there's that, probably.

01:49:10.000 You have a chance.

01:49:11.000 I throw one sword into the cage.

01:49:14.000 That could be, but at the same time, if I'm the one about being sacrificed, I'm like, hey, I'm going to make it fun for you guys.

01:49:20.000 Just bring me somebody else.

01:49:22.000 Yeah.

01:49:23.000 Wow.

01:49:24.000 But yeah, either case, it started out probably as a religious thing, and then it evolved into, oh, this is fun, screw the religion, but just let's have a good time.

01:49:33.000 Well, we always point to the decadence of the Roman Empire as being like the pinnacle of excess, right? 0.88

01:49:39.000 Yeah.

01:49:39.000 That's how we look at it.

01:49:40.000 But then you go to Disneyland and you see people on scooters everywhere you go where they've eaten themselves into these gelatinous beanbag style human beings.

01:49:50.000 I was just at Disneyland.

01:49:51.000 Every time I go, there are more scooters.

01:49:55.000 There's more and more people just getting so big that they can't walk.

01:50:00.000 Yeah, let's make it easier for people to lead themselves to that because that's what we want.

01:50:05.000 One of the reasons why I think it's interesting for many people in the U.S. to study Rome and there's this fascination for Rome is because the parallels are not that hard to see.

01:50:14.000 You see that super powerful civilization that keeps growing and growing in power.

01:50:20.000 And eventually hit the tipping scale of excess gets more and more.

01:50:24.000 People have a confier life, so they do get softer.

01:50:28.000 And then you are getting ready for the fall in the face of somebody else, tougher and stronger, who comes from a harsher life, who's going to It's the same stuff as the Roman Empire, right?

01:50:37.000 Right, right, right.

01:50:38.000 You eventually stop sending your guys to fight your wars because it's like, I don't want my kids to go to war.

01:50:44.000 That's what we did.

01:50:45.000 It's our heritage, but I don't want to do that anymore. 1.00

01:50:48.000 Let's hire some poor motherfucker to fight for us. 1.00

01:50:51.000 In the process, your civilization gets weak until eventually the other motherfucker you're hiring doesn't want to fight for you anymore. 1.00

01:50:58.000 They turn on you and your civilization falls. 0.99

01:51:03.000 We never learn.

01:51:04.000 No, it's a tough balance between living too harshly, where, yeah, you become this war machine, but that's a sucky life, and living too softly, when it's a real delicate game.

01:51:17.000 And I mean, you know how it is.

01:51:18.000 With your kids, you want things easy for them.

01:51:21.000 You want to make everything as easy, as pleasant as possible, but if you make it too easy, you turn them into wimps. 1.00

01:51:28.000 And so if you make it too hard, they'll hate your guts because it's like, fuck you, you're needlessly making my life hard. 0.98

01:51:33.000 So it's like that very delicate game of making feel people loved, giving them support, helping them when needed, but then also teaching them how to be strong. 0.99

01:51:43.000 And that does not happen through softness.

01:51:46.000 It doesn't happen through making everything easy for them.

01:51:48.000 I've had that conversation many times with Brian Callen where he and I were talking about, you know, one of the reasons why...

01:51:56.000 Brian lived a very strange life.

01:51:58.000 He went to boarding school for a lot of the time.

01:52:00.000 He grew up all over the world.

01:52:02.000 He lived in many different countries.

01:52:06.000 He just faced a lot of adversity because he couldn't make friends.

01:52:08.000 He was constantly moving.

01:52:10.000 And because of that, he's this really interesting guy. 0.97

01:52:12.000 And everyone that we know that's really interesting had some sort of a fucked up life. 0.99

01:52:17.000 And yet, we don't want our kids to have a fucked up life. 0.99

01:52:20.000 It's that weird. 0.99

01:52:22.000 You don't want your kid to be interesting, I guess.

01:52:25.000 What's that Chinese proverb with the curse?

01:52:28.000 May you live in interesting times?

01:52:29.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:52:30.000 It's...

01:52:32.000 Yeah, I wonder if that's the only way to create someone or to engineer the life of a human being that has character.

01:52:42.000 There's got to be ways that you can teach them through difficult tasks or through athletic endeavors.

01:52:49.000 I mean, my life was definitely fucked up up until the time where I was in high school, but all of my, I think my real character development, who I became, The harder parts was when I was in a really nice neighborhood.

01:53:04.000 I lived in Newton, which is like a really nice suburb of Boston. 0.72

01:53:09.000 But that was when I was doing martial arts.

01:53:11.000 That's when I was competing.

01:53:12.000 So I... like consciously or Purposely did something really difficult because that was what I was interested in I wasn't thinking oh this difficult thing will make me a real You know interesting man when I grow up and this will provide me with all this character development No,

01:53:30.000 it's like that was what I really wanted to do for whatever reason I was compelled to it and then the byproduct of that was I developed character I developed the ability to push myself and discipline and But I did it without having to go through horrible neighborhoods.

01:53:44.000 I mean, people beat me up in the gym, but nobody beat me up in the street.

01:53:48.000 Nobody robbed me.

01:53:49.000 I didn't get shot or stabbed.

01:53:51.000 But I developed character in a way that's similar to what someone would probably go through if they went through some really bad, violent times.

01:53:59.000 And I think you nailed it right there because you're bringing up something that's not...

01:54:04.000 You're going to get tough because we're going to throw you in the street and you're going to fight every day against some crazy kids with knives and you survive.

01:54:10.000 You're going to be tough.

01:54:11.000 It's like, well, that's a little.

01:54:12.000 But at the same time, it's not let's have you sheltered.

01:54:15.000 And I think martial arts in that regard is perfect.

01:54:17.000 You know, combat sports are great because they do teach you toughness, but they're still within a relatively protected environment.

01:54:23.000 Nobody's going to pull out a gun on you.

01:54:25.000 Nobody's going to, you know...

01:54:27.000 It's tough, but it's civilized stuff.

01:54:30.000 It's not throw people to the walls and pray for the best.

01:54:34.000 So it's a nice medium.

01:54:35.000 And I think the more we make our life easier, which we want to, we do need to engage in things that keep the toughness alive, at least to some degree.

01:54:44.000 You know, it's like you're not gonna be tough the way the one guy who survived out of a hundred was being thrown to the wolves, but at the same time, you still have that muscle there.

01:54:53.000 It's not completely gone because you are just all about...

01:54:57.000 Because then now you end up with people who are very pleasant, very nice, very sweet, and complete wimps and don't have a spine, and then it's like...

01:55:04.000 That's not the solution either.

01:55:06.000 Yeah, they have no resiliency.

01:55:08.000 They don't have any experience in overcoming difficult situations.

01:55:12.000 I oftentimes think about that when I think about animals.

01:55:15.000 Because, you know, I have dogs and I have cats, and my animals have zero...

01:55:20.000 I mean, I guess they would kill something, but they're not mean at all.

01:55:27.000 But if you see a wild animal, an animal that has to Get its own food.

01:55:33.000 They're so different.

01:55:34.000 And the only way you can get an animal that's tame is you have to provide them with all their food and that you have to bypass all of their natural predatory instincts that every dog has and every cat has.

01:55:45.000 And there's a way to bypass it.

01:55:47.000 You just got to give them steady food and love, steady food and love, steady food and love.

01:55:52.000 And in doing that, you quote unquote, domesticate them, right?

01:55:55.000 And that's kind of also what's happening with people.

01:56:00.000 You know, what we are doing with human beings is turning people into these fluffy sort of kitty cat type people.

01:56:07.000 Exactly.

01:56:07.000 Where if everything goes wrong and you find yourself on a deserted island, you can go feral.

01:56:12.000 Right.

01:56:13.000 And you try to figure out a way to survive.

01:56:14.000 You're eating raw mussels and chewing on roots and stuff.

01:56:18.000 But the reality is what you've become is a domesticated person.

01:56:24.000 You know, if you ever see like...

01:56:26.000 When they catch people, they find people that have been living in the wild by themselves.

01:56:31.000 It's only been a few times that they've found actual wild, feral people, but they resemble feral animals in a lot of ways.

01:56:41.000 That's how you survive.

01:56:43.000 Who does live in the wild and succeed?

01:56:46.000 Wild animals.

01:56:46.000 A human being is going to do that.

01:56:48.000 It's going to be along those lines.

01:56:50.000 But what we value from people, a lot of what we value is domesticated people.

01:56:54.000 Like what I like is people that I go up to, I hug them, I know they're not going to try to bite my neck and eat me.

01:56:59.000 You know what I mean?

01:57:00.000 I tend to...

01:57:01.000 I'm weird that way as well.

01:57:02.000 Yes, I tend to enjoy the same thing.

01:57:04.000 No, it's...

01:57:05.000 Like anything, it's a balance.

01:57:07.000 And the balance is not 50-50, maybe 90-10, but you still need to have a little of that other side.

01:57:12.000 It's always that there's a...

01:57:13.000 Once you go 100-0, then you really lost something.

01:57:16.000 It's like, where exactly is that balance in a desirable place, where you are a strong person, but you're also pleasant and sweet and nice, and you can do all the things that we want in a civilized conversation without you being weak?

01:57:30.000 Because that's the other aspect.

01:57:32.000 When people lack the tough side, Then I don't buy their niceness either because it's like you're nice because that's the only thing you can be.

01:57:40.000 You don't even have the option not to be nice because you don't know how.

01:57:43.000 You don't know what it takes to instead step up and be extra assertive and extra tough.

01:57:48.000 You don't have...

01:57:49.000 So your niceness is not a choice.

01:57:52.000 Right.

01:57:53.000 It's a survival mechanism.

01:57:55.000 You're like a cat that shows their belly.

01:57:56.000 Right.

01:57:57.000 If somebody doesn't have to be that way and chooses to be that way, then I buy it.

01:58:03.000 Then it's legit because you're choosing that.

01:58:06.000 Right.

01:58:06.000 If someone is generous because they want to be generous, not because they have to be generous.

01:58:11.000 Yeah, it's a strange fine line.

01:58:13.000 Why I've been focusing on this and obsessed with this lately is...

01:58:20.000 I've gotten this weird idea in my head.

01:58:22.000 Not necessarily weird, but this inescapable thought about human beings domesticating themselves with supermarkets.

01:58:31.000 And that supermarkets are in many ways a lot like serving a cat a bowl of cat food every day.

01:58:37.000 And that in removing the equation of having to go out and cut the wheat and pick the vegetables and kill the animals that you eat and instead just show up at the supermarket, buy it, throw it in the cart, that what we've done is we've developed like a system of domestication and the supermarket or the fast food restaurant or wherever you're getting your food in a lot of ways serves the same purpose that a master does to a pet.

01:59:02.000 And that we're slowly domesticating the human animal in that way.

01:59:07.000 I think there's a lot of parallels there.

01:59:09.000 And that's one of the reasons also I think why people get angry.

01:59:13.000 Even people that eat meat when they find other people hunt.

01:59:16.000 Yeah.

01:59:16.000 I think that they're reacting to this path that they're on and it's a path of domestication.

01:59:22.000 Even if it's irrational, even if they eat meat, and I've had the most irrational, which is people that are strict vegetarians or vegans, but they have animals they feed meat to.

01:59:33.000 It's like, yeah, that doesn't...

01:59:35.000 I know, man.

01:59:36.000 A lot of this stuff makes no sense.

01:59:38.000 No, it doesn't make sense.

01:59:40.000 But the rationalizations, I feel like they form such a common pattern that you almost have to take into consideration the fact that those rationalizations may in fact be natural protective mechanisms for this domestication process to take place.

01:59:56.000 Yeah.

01:59:57.000 And I think that as we become more and more peaceful and more and more civilized, like, I would say, and I think everyone agrees, that this is probably the safest time for human beings to live ever.

02:00:09.000 Well, you're a historian.

02:00:10.000 You know a lot about history.

02:00:11.000 Yeah.

02:00:12.000 You would probably say that, right?

02:00:14.000 Yeah.

02:00:14.000 I mean, when you look at so much of human history, there's always the guys from over the hill who are going to come up and slaughter your family at the drop of a dime.

02:00:22.000 So now the fact that most people in many countries in the world are not in that situation, it's kind of unique.

02:00:31.000 It's awesome.

02:00:31.000 It's not something that in most of recorded history you can find evidence of.

02:00:35.000 You don't find any evidence, right?

02:00:37.000 If you think about a cruise ship pulling up to your harbor and a bunch of people get out, you welcome them now.

02:00:44.000 Strangers from a strange land, and you're like, oh, this is great.

02:00:47.000 They're going to come over here and they're going to buy my trinkets.

02:00:49.000 They're going to buy a poncho. 1.00

02:00:51.000 Whereas before, they were going to come with fucking swords and kill your family. 1.00

02:00:55.000 I saw... 1.00

02:00:56.000 Did you watch the TV series Vikings?

02:00:57.000 No, I didn't.

02:00:58.000 It's pretty badass.

02:00:59.000 Really?

02:01:00.000 Yeah, I like it.

02:01:00.000 See, I... I'd never heard anything about it.

02:01:23.000 It's axe time.

02:01:25.000 It's sword time.

02:01:26.000 It's like the preparation.

02:01:27.000 That's what they're screaming?

02:01:28.000 It's axe time and it's sword time?

02:01:30.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:01:31.000 Wow, it's hammer time.

02:01:32.000 What about hammer time?

02:01:33.000 Exactly.

02:01:33.000 Hammer, they skip.

02:01:34.000 Stop.

02:01:35.000 Hammer time.

02:01:36.000 And that's a lot of human history right there.

02:01:39.000 That's a lot of human history.

02:01:40.000 People that have and people that have not and have not show up at the gates.

02:01:44.000 Yep, and they are hungry and they are more motivated than you because they are hungry.

02:01:49.000 It is amazing that this is one of the only times that we've ever recorded where people show up in places where they don't know anybody and they're welcome.

02:01:58.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:01:59.000 You're welcome all over the world.

02:02:01.000 Yeah, I know Chris, Ryan, there are many people who have the theory that, like, Way, way, way in a distant past, in hunting and gathering time, people were not more mellow.

02:02:11.000 There was less war.

02:02:12.000 And then there's the other campo that argues, no, no, hunting and gathering times were a crazy conflict.

02:02:16.000 It didn't happen that often because there were few people, so they don't run into each other that much.

02:02:22.000 And the reality is, I don't know who's right.

02:02:24.000 I don't think either one is completely right in the sense that I don't think it was a peace and love scenario because that's not how human beings operate.

02:02:31.000 And I don't think it was this model that only states can save you from violence because otherwise everybody's always killing each other.

02:02:39.000 I don't necessarily think that's either...

02:02:41.000 But clearly, I mean, we do have evidence that people bash each other's brains forever, you know, for a long time.

02:02:47.000 How frequent that was, that's the question, and there are different schools of thought in that regard, and it's kind of hard to come up with a conclusive answer. 0.98

02:02:54.000 But other than that scenario, which is so far in the past that we don't have that much solid evidence on, for much of the history that we do have records about, yeah, people do nasty shit to each other all the time. 0.95

02:03:08.000 Yeah, I think Chris is talking about tribal cultures that live, you know, indigenous people that live in the jungle and shit like that. 1.00

02:03:15.000 I think when it's resource dependent, I think when there's a lot of resources and there's plenty of women to fuck, Everybody's happy. 0.99

02:03:22.000 Chris Ryan also, he loves those polyamorous societies. 0.99

02:03:26.000 Right.

02:03:26.000 Who doesn't?

02:03:27.000 I mean, I agree with him.

02:03:28.000 It's like, I'm down.

02:03:30.000 Yeah, he loves the concept of these cultures that existed that didn't have...

02:03:36.000 They weren't able to trace lines of male paternity, and so the entire villages would raise children. 0.70

02:03:42.000 Raise kids.

02:03:42.000 Which exists right now in some parts of the world, you know?

02:03:45.000 I mean, that's how some indigenous cultures still operate to this day.

02:03:50.000 But yet there's also indigenous cultures like the ones in New Guinea, which are the sperm warriors of New Guinea, which is, you know that story, right?

02:03:58.000 Remind me later.

02:03:59.000 I know some of the insane fighting going on.

02:04:02.000 What's up with the sperm warrior? 1.00

02:04:04.000 Awful, awful pedophilia. 1.00

02:04:06.000 They would take children at a very young age and make them consume cum, both in their ass and in their mouth. 1.00

02:04:13.000 To make you a real man, yes. 1.00

02:04:15.000 They call you, they leave their parents and go stay with what they call their anus father. 1.00

02:04:21.000 Jesus. 0.66

02:04:21.000 Yeah, there's, oh God. 0.66

02:04:23.000 And they've been doing this for thousands of years.

02:04:25.000 For whatever reason, this became a style of living.

02:04:29.000 Somebody was really into little kids one day and said, you know what?

02:04:33.000 The gods have spoken and this is how you make a real man.

02:04:37.000 I'm getting a message from up on high.

02:04:39.000 Yeah.

02:04:40.000 That's how we're going to do this from now on.

02:04:43.000 No, that's why, in fact, romanticizing it is silly, but at the same time, demonizing it is... 0.99

02:04:48.000 And I don't mean this, because yeah, this is fucked up, but I mean tribal culture. 0.98

02:04:53.000 There's great stuff there. 0.99

02:04:55.000 There's awful stuff there.

02:04:56.000 There's human stuff there, right?

02:04:57.000 There's the whole spectrum of it all.

02:04:59.000 And I do like what Chris is doing in terms of I don't know who's historically 100% right in that debate about how cool or not so cool ancient tribal societies were, but I do like where Chris is going with it in terms of what is that we can learn either from the actual history or from something that sounds cool that may not exactly have happened away,

02:05:21.000 but it gives us an idea. 0.89

02:05:23.000 Because ultimately, who the fuck cares what they did 10,000 years ago? 0.93

02:05:25.000 It's about what you can do now. 0.96

02:05:27.000 So if that gives you an idea of what you can do now to make life better, I don't care whether it really happened or not.

02:05:33.000 If it makes life better now, I'm happy.

02:05:35.000 That's a really good point.

02:05:36.000 That's a really good point.

02:05:38.000 Like, what is possible now?

02:05:40.000 I firmly believe now is the best time ever.

02:05:43.000 I mean, I think we're incredibly lucky to live right now.

02:05:46.000 And as long as we don't hit some sort of a natural disaster or if someone fucks up and accidentally starts a nuclear war, I think it's a great time.

02:05:55.000 It's not perfect, but there's nothing going to be perfect.

02:05:58.000 We were talking about just the sheer numbers of humans.

02:06:01.000 You know, 20 people on an island with three girls, 17 men.

02:06:04.000 You're going to have death.

02:06:06.000 That's a given.

02:06:07.000 I don't think one night goes by without it.

02:06:10.000 You hear China recently, they changed their one-child rule.

02:06:14.000 Did they?

02:06:14.000 Yeah, like within the last few days.

02:06:17.000 Really?

02:06:17.000 Yeah.

02:06:18.000 That can go both ways. 1.00

02:06:20.000 I mean, on one hand, yeah, the whole female infanticide was fucked up. 1.00

02:06:23.000 On the other hand, China growing dramatically in population, that's not exactly a good thing either. 0.98

02:06:29.000 Well, Oh, how are they gonna do it?

02:06:30.000 Because there's only like 15 girls. 0.93

02:06:33.000 Right.

02:06:33.000 Exactly.

02:06:34.000 You guys fucked up. 1.00

02:06:35.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:06:36.000 This idea that you would only have men because the men would be able to take care of you.

02:06:41.000 Well, you guys threw a monkey wrench in your whole generation.

02:06:46.000 They sure did. 1.00

02:06:46.000 What a fucking cluster. 1.00

02:06:48.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:06:49.000 Big time.

02:06:51.000 Can you imagine being a guy and you're growing up there and you're on that island with 17 dudes and three women? 1.00

02:06:57.000 Like, what in the fuck? 0.99

02:06:58.000 I know. 1.00

02:06:59.000 That's a shitty deal right there. 0.93

02:07:01.000 Oh, it's got to be the worst. 1.00

02:07:03.000 Trying to get laid as a man in China must be fucking hard. 0.99

02:07:06.000 Yeah, I can see how that would not be easier. 0.99

02:07:09.000 I would imagine people...

02:07:11.000 High school, young males would be pretty pissed off.

02:07:16.000 Condom shares fall after China abandons one-child policy.

02:07:21.000 Shares in companies that make...

02:07:23.000 What is that?

02:07:23.000 Nappies, prams, and baby milk up?

02:07:26.000 Oh, I guess like baby stuff.

02:07:28.000 Up on Friday after Beijing announces plans to change family planning laws.

02:07:33.000 I just don't know how they're going to engineer their population.

02:07:36.000 I mean, this was in response to overpopulation.

02:07:39.000 That's why they decided to have a one-child policy. 0.72

02:07:42.000 That's just not good when everybody wants a man. 0.99

02:07:45.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:07:46.000 They didn't think it through in that scenario.

02:07:48.000 Because, I mean, I can see the idea.

02:07:50.000 You have too many people, too few resources. 1.00

02:07:52.000 You got fucked up. 1.00

02:07:53.000 You can't do that. 1.00

02:07:53.000 But at the same time, now it's like, okay, nobody is going to have baby girls. 1.00

02:07:57.000 Let's all have boys because that's what I want. 0.99

02:08:00.000 There's this dumb dad that I talk to sometimes. 0.99

02:08:03.000 Every now and then I get stuck talking to him. 1.00

02:08:06.000 And he's just like, he has daughters and he wants sons.

02:08:10.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:08:11.000 I'm like, dude, your fucking daughters are healthy. 1.00

02:08:13.000 What is wrong with you? 1.00

02:08:15.000 I have a friend who is a child that has like severe autism and all these terrible behavioral disabilities and he's a mess.

02:08:24.000 I'm like, you're lucky.

02:08:26.000 You're extremely fortunate.

02:08:29.000 Healthy children in America. 1.00

02:08:31.000 You hit the goddamn lottery. 1.00

02:08:34.000 And your dumb ass is whining that you don't have a son to play softball with. 1.00

02:08:37.000 And even then, why? 1.00

02:08:38.000 Because you can't fucking teach a girl to play softball because that's not girly? 1.00

02:08:42.000 They don't want to play softball, maybe. 1.00

02:08:44.000 You know, the idea that your son is an extension of you is one of the stupidest fucking attachments that some people have. 1.00

02:08:52.000 It's a human being. 1.00

02:08:53.000 It's a human being.

02:08:54.000 You're fortunate enough to be the parent of this human being. 1.00

02:08:57.000 This idea that you're upset that it's one gender or another, just shut the fuck up, you monkey. 1.00

02:09:02.000 And that goes back to the stupid stereotypes of masculine and feminine, of what it means to be a man or a woman. 1.00

02:09:09.000 Of course there are genetic stuff, and that's a given. 0.99

02:09:13.000 There's not even an argument that some of it is natural.

02:09:15.000 But then there's also a bunch of it that is nurture and that is also how you raise.

02:09:19.000 And somebody may have a tendency going one way, but if you teach them, you can balance it out in other ways.

02:09:25.000 To me, even the most interesting people are the ones I have both, that have the stereotypical sensitivity from the supposed to be female, but they are also tough.

02:09:34.000 And who the hell said that being...

02:09:38.000 Emotionally sensitive is only for women or that being tough is only for men.

02:09:43.000 I get bored with both people.

02:09:45.000 Unless you have both, unless I can relate to you on multiple levels, it's boring.

02:09:50.000 It can be, for sure.

02:09:52.000 The typical girly girl is like, Jesus, I'm out of here in three seconds. 1.00

02:09:57.000 It's like this is killing me.

02:09:59.000 It's so boring.

02:09:59.000 But also the typical guy who breaks a beer bottle off his head, burping, watching football, that's not exactly, okay, that's great for about 10 minutes and then I'm out.

02:10:10.000 To me, it's like develop human beings that are strong and sensitive.

02:10:14.000 What the hell is wrong with that idea?

02:10:16.000 Yeah, that's why one of the biggest problems growing up is if you're stuck in a neighborhood. 0.99

02:10:21.000 If you're stuck in a neighborhood, and the people in your neighborhood are all stupid, and there's no one interesting to draw from, there's no one to find that you can relate to. 0.92

02:10:29.000 Like, I remember being a kid, and, you know, you have a few good friends that you really enjoy hanging out with, and when they weren't around, you would hang out with dummies, and you'd be like, oh my god. 0.99

02:10:39.000 It's so taxing.

02:10:41.000 If you have the wrong... 0.99

02:10:44.000 Just by a roll of the dice, find yourself in a neighborhood where people are prejudiced or ignorant or aggressively ignorant or aggressively prejudiced. 0.99

02:10:52.000 You can just have a terrible time. 0.98

02:10:54.000 You just want to stay home and be locked in your environment.

02:10:57.000 And I think until the internet came around, that was the biggest issue in children growing up.

02:11:02.000 You were a subject to your environment or a victim of your environment sometimes, a product of your environment.

02:11:08.000 That's why even what we're doing right now, the idea that somebody in Sweden can download and listen to what's happening, That's pretty...

02:11:17.000 I mean, shit, I would have loved to have grown up with that possibility of listening into conversation so that I'm not trapped into the immediate world that is in the few miles for where you are born and where you are raised, but you get access. 0.63

02:11:30.000 And then you realize, well, there are people out there who have a different way of thinking other than... 0.99

02:11:36.000 I mean, think about even when TV came around and somebody in the middle of the United States in a town of 5,000 people suddenly could see people who look different, hear different conversations.

02:11:45.000 It must have been the most freeing thing in the world.

02:11:49.000 Unless you were black. 1.00

02:11:50.000 And you're like, where the fuck are all the black people? 1.00

02:11:52.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:11:52.000 They're all white. 1.00

02:11:53.000 Until Sanford and Son came on the air. 1.00

02:11:55.000 You're like, what in the fuck? 1.00

02:11:57.000 There's got Jeffersons. 1.00

02:11:58.000 Finally!

02:11:59.000 But he said that funny that in the 1950s, all the advertisers, all the programmers thought, in order to attract people, we need to make the content as Not controversial.

02:12:11.000 Like, the most uncontroversial thing possible.

02:12:14.000 We make it very square.

02:12:15.000 We make it very safe.

02:12:17.000 No sex. 0.72

02:12:18.000 No violence.

02:12:19.000 We make it no...

02:12:20.000 And you see what we are attracted to today is like 180 completely.

02:12:24.000 It's like, give me Spartacus with, you know, orgies and violence and that, you know...

02:12:30.000 Yeah.

02:12:31.000 It's suppression, right?

02:12:34.000 That's also interesting, like advertisements.

02:12:36.000 Like advertisements today, like on the internet, like podcasts.

02:12:41.000 This is a perfect example.

02:12:43.000 No one has ever, when I do a podcast ad, say, don't swear. 0.97

02:12:47.000 Or don't say something fucked up. 0.95

02:12:48.000 I say fucked up things sometimes in these ads because I'm winging it. 0.99

02:12:52.000 Of course. 0.97

02:12:52.000 But as long as I'm not saying something... 0.97

02:12:55.000 When I say fucked up things, they're obviously jokes. 0.94

02:12:57.000 Yeah. 0.97

02:12:57.000 As long as I'm not saying anything that's actually racist or homophobic or sexist or anything like that, people are fine with it. 0.97

02:13:04.000 And you could never have one of my ads on a television show.

02:13:08.000 Oh, no way.

02:13:09.000 But the people that watch the television show are the same people that are going to download a lot of podcasts.

02:13:15.000 Exactly. 0.93

02:13:15.000 Like, if someone's listening to Howard Stern in the morning, right, and they're hearing all this crazy shit, that's the same person that might watch the Big Bang Theory or America's Got Talent at night, and it's squeaky clean. 0.93

02:13:27.000 Well, it's the same human being. 0.97

02:13:28.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:13:29.000 But for whatever reason, they decide that this human being can accept it In this form, but can accept it in that form.

02:13:37.000 You might watch something that's totally squeaky clean, and the advertisers are... 0.98

02:13:43.000 But the same person might go to a rated R movie and watch crazy violence and death and some fucking horror film. 0.93

02:13:52.000 It's weird what we decide people can and cannot be subjected to, cannot be exposed to. 0.99

02:13:58.000 Especially with nudity, where it's like if you show any kind of nudity, automatically it's the highest possible restriction because that's going to fuck up your brain, right? 0.99

02:14:06.000 If you see a boob, now you're going to be screwed for life. 0.99

02:14:09.000 It's like, really? 0.98

02:14:10.000 That's what you're scared to show your kids?

02:14:12.000 Well, do you remember Vincent Gallo?

02:14:14.000 No, it wasn't Vincent.

02:14:15.000 Vincent Gallo, that's his name, right?

02:14:17.000 Vincent Gallo, the actor?

02:14:19.000 That's his name, right?

02:14:19.000 Isn't it Vincent Gallo?

02:14:21.000 He was a very respected actor, like a really intense guy, and he did this movie.

02:14:28.000 He produced it and starred in it, I think it was called Brown Bunny.

02:14:32.000 And it was with this chick, Chloe Svangie. 0.99

02:14:35.000 I don't know how the fuck you say her name. 0.99

02:14:36.000 She's a very good actress. 0.99

02:14:38.000 Excellent actress.

02:14:39.000 But they had a real sex scene in the movie. 1.00

02:14:41.000 And in the movie, she sucks his cock. 1.00

02:14:44.000 She really blows him. 1.00

02:14:46.000 And he comes in her face and on her mouth. 0.99

02:14:48.000 And it's real. 0.99

02:14:49.000 And people were fucking furious. 0.98

02:14:52.000 People that went to see the movie hated him. 0.99

02:14:54.000 And they were furious. 0.99

02:14:56.000 And it fucking tanked his career. 0.99

02:14:58.000 I mean, tanked his career. 0.99

02:15:00.000 Never even heard of that.

02:15:01.000 That's crazy.

02:15:02.000 Well, he's done some stuff since then, but not much.

02:15:04.000 And he's done some vodka ads, some vodka commercials.

02:15:08.000 But before that, he was this guy that was this go-to guy if you wanted this really intense character.

02:15:15.000 And he's a very good actor.

02:15:16.000 Right.

02:15:17.000 And just like, you know, a guy who just decided, look, I'm going to take a crazy chance. 0.74

02:15:22.000 Like, look, we have these Quentin Tarantino movies where guys are getting their ears cut off, where they're taking these crazy chances with violence and Pulp Fiction, where the guy gets shot in the head and the brains splatter over the back seat and there's all these racial slurs being thrown around by white people to black people.

02:15:36.000 This is all fine. 1.00

02:15:37.000 But a guy getting his cock sucked in a movie. 1.00

02:15:39.000 You could see, like, if she dropped down to her knees and you only saw the back of her head and she was sucking his cock, that would be okay. 1.00

02:15:47.000 It's fine, exactly. 1.00

02:15:48.000 It's gonna be okay.

02:15:48.000 I know.

02:15:49.000 But to see his actual penis in her actual mouth, for whatever reason, people were like, no fucking way. 1.00

02:15:55.000 That's it for you, dude. 1.00

02:15:56.000 We're done.

02:15:57.000 Yeah, that's...

02:15:58.000 Yeah.

02:15:59.000 That raised me out.

02:16:00.000 I always find it so weird. 1.00

02:16:01.000 Meanwhile, everybody wants their dick sucked. 1.00

02:16:03.000 If you have a dick, you want it sucked. 1.00

02:16:05.000 It is the one universal truth. 1.00

02:16:07.000 Because even if you're gay, you want it sucked by a guy. 1.00

02:16:11.000 If you're straight, you want it sucked by a girl. 1.00

02:16:13.000 Everybody loves blowjobs. 1.00

02:16:14.000 They're amazing. 1.00

02:16:16.000 It's one of the greatest inventions that anybody ever figured out was that if someone sucks your dick, it feels fantastic. 1.00

02:16:22.000 But to watch it in a movie is somehow horrifically offensive. 1.00

02:16:26.000 Totally consensual.

02:16:27.000 We're not watching rape. 0.97

02:16:28.000 We're watching a totally consensual sex act in a movie. 0.98

02:16:31.000 Meanwhile, the same people that were offended probably watch porn. 0.91

02:16:34.000 Right, of course.

02:16:35.000 But as long as the windows are closed and the shades are shut and the door is closed and no one can hear them, then they can... 0.99

02:16:43.000 They can jerk off in their hypocritical world, and they think it's okay. 0.95

02:16:46.000 I don't remember if I mentioned that to you before or not, because it cracks me up so much. 0.97

02:16:52.000 But there was a study in Utah a few years ago, because the way the Supreme Court had set up the obscenity laws, they basically said that it boils down to the standards of the community, of whether the community finds obscene or not.

02:17:04.000 So in Utah, they were saying, well, we are a very conservative community, so we want all the hotel chains in Utah to not be able to allow to use porn.

02:17:15.000 They cannot sell, you know, porn is the number one thing on the pay-per-view in hotels.

02:17:20.000 They're like, nope, because it offends the standards of our community.

02:17:23.000 So then they did this research and found out that porn consumption in Utah is actually way higher than in most other places under the file.

02:17:32.000 What people say and what people do are completely different things sometimes.

02:17:36.000 And that's what I find.

02:17:38.000 It goes back to that thing about being comfortable in your own skin. 0.99

02:17:41.000 To me, it's like, look, you like porn. 0.95

02:17:43.000 Embrace it. 0.98

02:17:44.000 Just accept it.

02:17:45.000 It's who you are.

02:17:47.000 As long as you're not killing people, as long as you're not doing anything horrible to other human beings, Don't put forward this image of what you think you should be when you're not that person.

02:17:58.000 If you're not that person, there's a reason why.

02:18:00.000 It probably is not that healthy for you.

02:18:01.000 It's not the way you're built to be.

02:18:03.000 There's something there.

02:18:05.000 Deal with the reality.

02:18:06.000 Deal with where you're at.

02:18:07.000 And if you want to change yourself, then take a few baby steps away from that.

02:18:11.000 But start accepting the fact that this is who you are, this is what you like, this is what you don't.

02:18:16.000 Then if you decide you want to change, you can work on the edges.

02:18:21.000 You're not going to change dramatically because you don't change the essence of who you are, but you can smooth the edges if you really, really want.

02:18:27.000 But that never happens unless you start with realizing what it is that you are and you stare at it and accept it for what it is.

02:18:34.000 It's interesting too because I think that a lot of what people are worried about is other people's perceptions of them.

02:18:40.000 And those same people are shielding their own reality from other people worried about their perceptions.

02:18:47.000 They might all be into the same thing.

02:18:49.000 Exactly.

02:18:50.000 The book I sent you the other day, the one that I left coming up, I sent it to Aubrey a while back and he was reading through.

02:18:58.000 And one thing that he was cracking up about is like, man, you have zero filter.

02:19:02.000 It's like the stuff you say about what you think, that's not the kind of thing that most people would admit to.

02:19:10.000 That's the kind of stuff that it's...

02:19:13.000 Especially most people who are professors.

02:19:15.000 Right.

02:19:15.000 Yeah.

02:19:15.000 Never mind that.

02:19:16.000 Exactly.

02:19:17.000 That's a big one in your world, right?

02:19:19.000 Yeah.

02:19:19.000 Where does this image of how we are supposed to be?

02:19:21.000 And to me, it's like, that's such bullshit. 0.99

02:19:24.000 It's like, be a human being. 1.00

02:19:26.000 How about that?

02:19:27.000 Do you feel extra freedom because you have podcasts and because you can express yourself through that and you can actually make money doing that too?

02:19:34.000 So you have these other outlets for expression.

02:19:39.000 Yeah.

02:19:39.000 I mean, I think I realized I had this really stupid idea for a long time that I could get a regular gig in academia as a good, serious professor, and then I could have also the space to do all the other stuff.

02:19:52.000 And then I realized... 0.87

02:19:53.000 This was actually...

02:19:55.000 I remember being in my office one day after the realization that most academics don't like me sunk in.

02:20:01.000 Most academics don't like you?

02:20:03.000 Yeah.

02:20:04.000 Why not?

02:20:05.000 Because, A... Oh.

02:20:21.000 And when I was having this, why is it that I don't like me?

02:20:24.000 I don't understand.

02:20:25.000 I kind of step outside and saw it from above.

02:20:28.000 And it was, I mean, my office hours, I'm playing Eminem in my office, and around my neck are strapped gloves that I just used to spar with one of my students during a break.

02:20:38.000 In my hand is my medical marijuana renewal, and I'm wondering...

02:20:42.000 But why don't they like me?

02:20:44.000 I don't understand.

02:20:46.000 I'm just like, well, if they like you, there would be something weird in this way.

02:20:52.000 What do you expect?

02:20:53.000 They are what they are, and that's fine.

02:20:55.000 That's the way it is.

02:20:57.000 But you can't expect to be just because you're polite and you open the door for people.

02:21:02.000 That's nice, but you're still a very different animal from what they are. 0.94

02:21:06.000 And so, of course, they are not going to embrace you as one of them.

02:21:09.000 But there's a few guys like, I bet you and Thaddeus Russell, if you were on the same staff, you'd get along great.

02:21:14.000 Sure, sure, sure.

02:21:14.000 There's a few, there's people out there that are...

02:21:17.000 No, absolutely. 0.99

02:21:18.000 And in fact, I'm not saying all people, all academics are all equally stiff, boring assholes. 0.99

02:21:23.000 That's not the case. 0.96

02:21:24.000 There are some very cool people, but the culture, the general culture of what you're supposed to fit in, it's a very stiff one.

02:21:31.000 Do you feel like, I mean, you've been a professor for a while.

02:21:34.000 Do you feel like the culture is shifting?

02:21:39.000 Yeah, I think.

02:22:01.000 We'll do this really daring thing and try to, you know, it's not going to start from the inside because any establishment is built on keeping the status quo.

02:22:10.000 So that's nowhere.

02:22:11.000 So a lot of, if anything, a lot of academia I'm seeing is becoming more and more bureaucratic.

02:22:17.000 There's more of do measurable things, do stuff that everything can be accounted for so we don't get sued.

02:22:24.000 Make sure to do.

02:22:25.000 There's a lot less flexibility and allowing people to kind of run the show as they like it.

02:22:31.000 Because they're like, what if somebody runs it the wrong way and then we get sued?

02:22:35.000 Sure, that is a concern, but you're also eliminating the possibility of people doing cool things in the process.

02:22:41.000 So I don't know.

02:22:42.000 I don't see tremendously good changes in that regard.

02:22:47.000 What about the changes as far as political correctness or the ideologies on campus?

02:22:53.000 They seem to be more extreme and more left-wing now than they have at any time in the most recent history.

02:22:59.000 At least, obviously, I'm not in school, but from people that are reporting on it and professors that I've interviewed.

02:23:06.000 I'm confused on that because, honestly, I hear about it a lot.

02:23:09.000 I read it in the newspapers.

02:23:11.000 I hear about it from other people telling me.

02:23:13.000 I don't see it.

02:23:15.000 What do you see?

02:23:16.000 The whole extreme level of political correctness is not one that I witness a lot.

02:23:23.000 I get to do what I do.

02:23:25.000 I say what I say.

02:23:26.000 Nobody gets pissed off.

02:23:27.000 Nobody yells at me over it.

02:23:29.000 It tends to be fairly...

02:23:30.000 In that regard, there's still a little...

02:23:32.000 And I don't see my students getting offended at everything, the way you would read based on websites and all of it.

02:23:38.000 I'm not saying that that doesn't exist.

02:23:39.000 I'm sure it does.

02:23:40.000 I mean, it must be based on something.

02:23:42.000 I just don't think it's quite as...

02:23:44.000 Either I'm extremely lucky for some reason, or it's not quite as pervasive as it sounds on paper.

02:23:51.000 But I don't know, because, you know, of course, all I know is my experience, and that may not be representative of what's out there.

02:23:56.000 It's also probably indicative of the sheer numbers of people that are in school.

02:24:00.000 It's like, did you ever see that old Bill Hicks bit?

02:24:03.000 Bill Hicks had this really funny bit about CNN, about how you, every time you turn the news, murder, death, rape, pit bulls.

02:24:11.000 And he goes, and then you go look out the window and you hear chirp, chirp, chirp, chirp. 0.99

02:24:15.000 He goes, where the fuck's all this shit happening? 1.00

02:24:17.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:24:19.000 But I think the sheer numbers of human beings that are in school, if you're dealing with how many millions of kids are in school, I don't know how many there are, but out of those, you're going to be able to cherry pick some extreme examples of social justice warriors,

02:24:36.000 political correct thinking, progressive thinking run amok, diversity run amok.

02:24:44.000 I think that's what's going on.

02:24:45.000 I think that makes for a story that people are going to read and get all pissed off about.

02:24:50.000 Whereas if you talk about, it's the same as why we like war. 0.60

02:24:53.000 It's the extreme out there kind of thing that makes people emotionally involved in the story.

02:25:00.000 You report it and people get into it.

02:25:03.000 Whereas if you really talk about what a lot of the time happens, it's not that glamorous and so it's not as reported.

02:25:09.000 Have you had any backlash at all from doing, like, controversial podcasts?

02:25:13.000 Because, you know, you don't hold back.

02:25:16.000 No, definitely not.

02:25:18.000 One thing that I think helps is that probably these are not the same people who listen to podcasts or care or they probably...

02:25:25.000 This is how good it is.

02:25:27.000 I was in a history department meeting.

02:25:30.000 I won't mention the school.

02:25:31.000 Not that it makes my difference because it's the same thing, probably 99% of them, but they were talking.

02:25:36.000 And this is like 30 people or whatever many people who are historians.

02:25:41.000 That's what they do, right?

02:25:42.000 And when I mentioned Dan Carlin, Hardcore History, nobody knew what I was talking about. 0.96

02:25:47.000 And I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? 0.71

02:25:49.000 You know, it's like, you are a historian. 0.96

02:25:52.000 That's the number one history podcast out there.

02:25:55.000 It's one of the top podcast period of any kind.

02:25:58.000 It's amazing.

02:25:59.000 The guy's a god at playing this game.

02:26:02.000 And you haven't even heard of him.

02:26:04.000 Like, you didn't even bother checking what's...

02:26:05.000 That tells me that you're so locked in a tower out there that you have no idea what's...

02:26:12.000 I was blown away.

02:26:13.000 I mean, even I was surprised, and I have generally bad feelings about academia to begin with, and that was too much even for me.

02:26:21.000 How is someone in the world of history not find out about that?

02:26:24.000 It's such a revolutionary way to distribute history.

02:26:27.000 Yeah, precisely.

02:26:28.000 But that tells you how insulated that word is, where it's about what's in the footnote on page 357 of the monograph that has been read by four people they may know about.

02:26:39.000 That's a weird world.

02:26:42.000 But, you know, that weird world is what got people to this age today, where we can do things like hardcore history.

02:26:48.000 I mean, it was all created by the knowledge that was taught through schools.

02:26:53.000 And Dan did bring that up in one of his podcasts, where he said, look, in the past, history was a bit more holistic in nature, where good historians were also good storytellers.

02:27:02.000 And they may have not been quite the same level of researchers, but they were really good storytellers.

02:27:08.000 History has moved more and more in the direction of good nerds who hit the library, or now you don't have to go to the library, you do it online, but that are hardcore into research of primary sources, and you need it.

02:27:20.000 You know, of course you need that skill, because otherwise you don't have the data to spin a good story about it.

02:27:25.000 But if that's all the history that's out there, you can have the most accurate history in the world and nobody want to hear it because these guys can't tell it.

02:27:32.000 Because it's dry.

02:27:33.000 You need both.

02:27:34.000 You know, you need the hardcore researcher with dicks out little tidbits here and there.

02:27:40.000 And then you need the ones who can spin it in a way that can communicate with other human beings, that people, that can make them care, that can make them interested, that can...

02:27:48.000 And these are often not the same people because it requires very different talents, you know?

02:27:53.000 Yeah, that's what a lot of people say about Neil deGrasse Tyson as well, that he's not just a brilliant man, but a brilliant communicator.

02:28:02.000 Like that his real skill is in making it entertaining and exciting and absorbable.

02:28:09.000 Absolutely.

02:28:09.000 Whereas the dry lectures that you might listen to from a physics professor...

02:28:14.000 Nobody cares.

02:28:15.000 ...it just not get in there for whatever reason.

02:28:17.000 But you need that guy.

02:28:18.000 Sure.

02:28:19.000 You need it.

02:28:19.000 It has that desire to acquire that information.

02:28:22.000 The problem with academia is that they've made that guy the only...

02:28:26.000 that's the measuring stick of what a historian is.

02:28:29.000 That's one side of it.

02:28:31.000 It's an important one, and I give you that.

02:28:33.000 It is an important one, but it cannot be the only one.

02:28:36.000 There's a reason why every single one of the best history books I've ever read It's always written by a journalist.

02:28:43.000 It's never written by a historian.

02:28:45.000 Because journalists, they are paid to know how to tell a story.

02:28:49.000 The reason why you're paid is because you need to hook a reader in that doesn't have to read that story, that makes you want to.

02:28:57.000 Then, his background was as a journalist.

02:29:00.000 It's about people who...

02:29:02.000 Nobody owes you their attention.

02:29:05.000 Intrigue them and so they want to pay attention.

02:29:08.000 That's that skill.

02:29:10.000 Most of the people who are professional historians in a traditional sense That talent is not encouraged.

02:29:18.000 You may have it by luck, because that's how you are as a human being, but it's not something that you are encouraged to develop as part of being a good historian.

02:29:26.000 That's seen as, ah, that's popularizing it.

02:29:29.000 What's wrong with that?

02:29:30.000 To be able to make something accessible to people.

02:29:33.000 Isn't that the whole point?

02:29:34.000 Isn't that funny, though, that would be shunned?

02:29:37.000 Popularizing something that's as important as the historical record?

02:29:40.000 Yep.

02:29:41.000 It's one of the most important things for human history, or for human beings rather, is to understand history because then you can learn from the mistakes of the past and then understand the parallels of what's going on in the current time.

02:29:52.000 When you look at the Roman Empire and you talk about the Great Excesses and how that civilization crumbled under the weight of its own excess, You look at us now, you go, well, there's some parallels here.

02:30:05.000 Exactly.

02:30:05.000 There's people on scooters in Disneyland.

02:30:07.000 I mean, it might not be feeding Christians to the lions, but I mean, there's definitely some fucking crazy shit going on right now that they're going to look back on. 0.99

02:30:15.000 When you look at the average American diet and the fact that... 0.99

02:30:19.000 I was in Disneyland the other day, and I told you they were on scooters.

02:30:22.000 But one of the other things is they had to change the boats out in the Pirates of the Caribbean ride.

02:30:27.000 So everybody's too big?

02:30:28.000 Because people are too big.

02:30:29.000 Yeah.

02:30:31.000 They've done this several times.

02:30:33.000 They've had to change the boats, and they had to dig a deeper trench on It's a Small World.

02:30:37.000 Because over the years, people have gotten heavier and heavier.

02:30:40.000 Right.

02:30:40.000 And they have to accommodate, and they have to take into account the possibility of 600-pound people.

02:30:47.000 That's what they're doing now.

02:30:48.000 Because I saw several 600-plus pound people that are just overflowing on their scooters.

02:30:55.000 And they also have to help those people from their scooters onto these rides.

02:31:00.000 So these rides have to be reinforced in order to take the weight of several people.

02:31:05.000 I mean, a lot of these rides are like you're supposed to only get two people in.

02:31:08.000 The average two people, you get two people together, you know...

02:31:12.000 Maybe 400 pounds for two people.

02:31:14.000 Well, now you've got one person that weighs 600 pounds.

02:31:17.000 And so this ride's not really designed for this.

02:31:20.000 So that's discrimination.

02:31:22.000 You've discriminated against our large citizens.

02:31:26.000 This is one of the most disgusting stories that I've ever heard or said.

02:31:31.000 I told you to Duncan once on my podcast. 0.93

02:31:33.000 It's so gross.

02:31:34.000 But since my wife had told me when she was working in hospital, she said, oh man, I got pulled over by a colleague.

02:31:40.000 They told me this story.

02:31:42.000 It's scarred my brain ever since, so we'll gladly scar the brain of everybody listening right now.

02:31:47.000 So this couple went in to the doctor and they were complaining about how, you know, they keep trying to get pregnant and she's not getting pregnant.

02:31:56.000 And, you know, the woman was like probably a good 500 pounds, something like that, just rolls of fat everywhere, the whole thing. 1.00

02:32:04.000 And the doctor was like, okay, you know, let's see what's up, let's see what's going on. 0.91

02:32:08.000 And lift the fat folds left and right, and suddenly he realizes, oh shit, these people thought they were having sex, but based on the residue I'm seeing here between the fat folds, they weren't exactly having sex. 0.99

02:32:25.000 The guy was fucking the fat folds, thinking that he was in when he wasn't, and then they were wondering why they were not getting pregnant. 1.00

02:32:34.000 This should have let him keep fucking the fat folds. 1.00

02:32:37.000 You're real close. 1.00

02:32:38.000 You're real close.

02:32:39.000 Keep going.

02:32:39.000 I was like, when they told me that, I'm like, oh my god, my brain.

02:32:42.000 I cannot get that out of my brain now forever.

02:32:45.000 I would feel like that would be a standard move. 0.99

02:32:47.000 It's just titty fucking fat folds. 0.98

02:32:50.000 I'm not shocked at all. 0.99

02:32:51.000 That didn't even make me feel sick.

02:32:53.000 No, well, these, I don't know.

02:32:55.000 I've seen too much.

02:32:55.000 Yeah, I think you've seen too much.

02:32:57.000 The thing about lifting the fat folds and finding the rest of you from all the failed attempts, it seems, I don't know.

02:33:02.000 See, I was thinking that they were going to find a fetus in there.

02:33:05.000 I was thinking you were going to say that they gave birth and it just got stuck in the fat folds.

02:33:10.000 Oh, that's even better.

02:33:10.000 Okay, yeah, you win.

02:33:11.000 I can see why.

02:33:12.000 That's what I was thinking it was going to be.

02:33:14.000 No, that's better.

02:33:15.000 I give you that.

02:33:16.000 How does someone who's that fat think they're going to take care of a child?

02:33:19.000 I don't know.

02:33:20.000 You know, when the little toddlers start running around, what are you going to do?

02:33:23.000 Get your scooter and chase them around in the park?

02:33:26.000 Right.

02:33:26.000 Well, you probably stuff them with food day and night.

02:33:29.000 They'll sit next to you and be 200 pounds by the time they're three years old.

02:33:32.000 I've talked about this a bunch of times on the show, but in the...

02:33:35.000 You know, at the possibility of overindulging this thought, I stopped eating sugar.

02:33:42.000 Well, I didn't stop, but I cut it.

02:33:44.000 I cut it out completely for two weeks, and then I cut it way back since then.

02:33:47.000 And I will occasionally, every few days or so, allow myself one thing, like a piece of, I like this chili mango, you know, mangoes of chili that has sugar in it, but very, very little sugar.

02:33:59.000 I lost like 8 pounds from that.

02:34:01.000 Just doing nothing but that.

02:34:03.000 Working out the same amount.

02:34:04.000 My energy level is completely different through the day.

02:34:07.000 I don't get tired towards the end of the day anymore.

02:34:10.000 It just stayed normal.

02:34:12.000 It's weird. 0.99

02:34:13.000 That's where nature is fucked up because sugar tastes so damn good and yet it's so bad for you. 0.97

02:34:19.000 Well, it's supposed to taste good in the form of fruit because it comes with the reward of vitamins and fiber and all this other good stuff that's in fruit. 0.98

02:34:26.000 But we've somehow or another hijacked that, extracted it from the fruit and shoved it into a liquid that comes in a nice aluminum can.

02:34:33.000 You pop the top and you get that corn syrup deep into your heart.

02:34:40.000 But the average American diet is just overflowing with sugar and these poor people are just becoming bigger and fatter and corn syrup and simple sugars and they're just overwhelmed with this excess sugar and it's that's the I think that's the primary issue that people have when it comes to weight loss sugars and and simple sugars and carbohydrates and And,

02:35:07.000 you know, simple carbs like pastas and breads and all that stuff which converts to sugar.

02:35:13.000 Alcohol, which converts to sugar.

02:35:15.000 It's all sugar. 1.00

02:35:16.000 But even that, you know, probably there's also sitting on your ass forever and never moving. 0.99

02:35:21.000 Because, I mean, I see how, like, when I go back to Italy, I see how people eat. 0.99

02:35:24.000 And people eat a monstrous amount of pasta, right?

02:35:27.000 And they're like, how are you even?

02:35:29.000 And yet you see them and...

02:35:31.000 Skinny.

02:35:32.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:35:33.000 It's like...

02:35:33.000 If you see me, what I eat when I have pasta, you would be like, really?

02:35:37.000 You're hitting half the box of the whole thing.

02:35:39.000 They're like, yeah, easy.

02:35:40.000 And I feel actually pretty good.

02:35:41.000 I can go for more, you know?

02:35:43.000 It's like...

02:35:43.000 Do they have the same wheat in Italy?

02:35:45.000 That's where I have the question marks.

02:35:47.000 Clearly, something is different there.

02:35:48.000 You know, something is not because you cannot...

02:35:52.000 I think?

02:36:07.000 And they are filling.

02:36:08.000 You know, you eat some tomatoes, you feel like that can be a big chunk of your lunch right there.

02:36:13.000 I eat tomatoes here.

02:36:14.000 I feel like I'm drinking water in a red package.

02:36:17.000 They taste like nothing, and they don't fill me.

02:36:19.000 I'm like, it's theoretically the same fruit, but clearly something has been done different in the way they have been.

02:36:24.000 GMOs, man! 0.99

02:36:25.000 I don't fucking know what, but I know they're... 0.97

02:36:29.000 No idea why or what, but clearly the result is different. 0.94

02:36:32.000 Well, selective breeding.

02:36:34.000 I mean, they've selectively made these tomatoes a much more hearty tomato that doesn't taste very good.

02:36:40.000 Right.

02:36:40.000 They've bred out all the juiciness because they don't last.

02:36:44.000 Like, I have some heirloom tomatoes at home.

02:36:46.000 I just bought them the other day.

02:36:47.000 They're already really soft.

02:36:48.000 Right.

02:36:48.000 I got to eat them tonight.

02:36:49.000 Right.

02:36:50.000 And I think people are lazy.

02:36:51.000 They don't go grocery shopping often enough.

02:36:54.000 And so it's like, I want to buy a tomato today.

02:36:56.000 The last three weeks from now, it's going to look just as new.

02:36:59.000 And the fact is, well, it's going to look new, but you have no nutrition and no taste.

02:37:03.000 Well, it's really in the shipping.

02:37:04.000 The shipping is the big issue, like being able to get them across the country in a big truck.

02:37:08.000 But the heirloom tomatoes, I didn't even know they existed until 10 years ago or whatever it was when I first had one. 0.91

02:37:15.000 They're fucking delicious. 0.95

02:37:16.000 They are. 0.99

02:37:17.000 That's what a tomato is supposed to be like.

02:37:19.000 Exactly.

02:37:19.000 It's like we have this rare tomato.

02:37:21.000 That's the way it's all right there.

02:37:23.000 That is real tomatoes.

02:37:25.000 I hope we don't run out of heirloom tomato seeds. 0.77

02:37:27.000 That would suck.

02:37:28.000 I would really cry.

02:37:29.000 I love tomatoes.

02:37:30.000 If we get to a point someday...

02:37:32.000 I'm hoping that with all these like...

02:37:35.000 There's this new emphasis on craft restaurants and craft breweries and craft...

02:37:40.000 People are really into farm-to-table restaurants.

02:37:45.000 This is a great one near me.

02:37:48.000 I get eggs there.

02:37:49.000 And the eggs have a dark orange yolk, just like my eggs.

02:37:52.000 And the food is all from a local farm.

02:37:55.000 And they'll tell you what farm they're sourcing their beef from.

02:37:57.000 It's a great little restaurant.

02:37:59.000 It's great.

02:37:59.000 It's awesome.

02:38:00.000 But I'm hoping that with that sort of trend...

02:38:03.000 That more and more people embrace that, and then we'll keep the idea alive of, you know, real, natural foods.

02:38:09.000 Yeah.

02:38:10.000 I even like...

02:38:11.000 Oh, sorry.

02:38:11.000 No, it's okay.

02:38:12.000 I was going to say, but, you know, in other ways, like things like golden rice, like genetically modified rice that is much higher in protein, that's helped a lot of people.

02:38:20.000 Right.

02:38:20.000 Kept a lot of people from starving.

02:38:22.000 No, I'm all for people having choices.

02:38:25.000 The thing I don't like is when one model becomes the only model that you don't let anybody else have a choice.

02:38:32.000 Well, there's a problem there.

02:38:34.000 I don't even care which one is winning.

02:38:36.000 The point is if you start having one model only, there's a problem there. 0.94

02:38:41.000 So you do have the people who want none of this shit and we outlaw it or the opposite is like we're going to saturate the market so much that we squeeze every other possibility out. 0.92

02:38:51.000 But Mm-hmm. 0.99

02:39:12.000 And that they're thinking that eventually that model of really shitty food, fast food, is going to be gone.

02:39:18.000 And they're going to be replaced by things like In-N-Out Burger, which is delicious.

02:39:22.000 Right.

02:39:22.000 They cook it to order.

02:39:24.000 It takes a little bit more time, but it's infinitely better.

02:39:26.000 Exactly.

02:39:27.000 And that these five guys, places like that, that's the new model.

02:39:31.000 Yeah.

02:39:31.000 And then that's what you're going to get.

02:39:33.000 And then the idea is like, have you been to LAX recently?

02:39:36.000 Have you been flying?

02:39:37.000 Yeah.

02:39:38.000 Well, one of the things you notice if you go to LAX is the restaurant choices have gotten dramatically better.

02:39:44.000 Like, you can get really good food at the airport now.

02:39:47.000 Like, really cool restaurants.

02:39:48.000 They're not chains.

02:39:50.000 And, like, this is a brilliant idea.

02:39:52.000 There's a food truck there.

02:39:54.000 It's got a truck of face.

02:39:57.000 And then, you know, there's a little restaurant behind it.

02:39:59.000 But the idea is they're going to give you food like you would get from a food truck.

02:40:02.000 And so they're establishing this...

02:40:06.000 New sort of a place to get, which used to be like you'd get Chili's, you know, you'd get like Applebee's.

02:40:14.000 It was like chain restaurants or McDonald's, stuff like that.

02:40:18.000 But now you get like a really nice salad.

02:40:20.000 You get a kale salad with like real cucumbers and stuff on it and stuff.

02:40:24.000 I think people are realizing that just because this is the only way we've had before, that you don't have to have it this way.

02:40:33.000 You know, I saw this thing, one of Anthony Bourdain's shows was on San Francisco.

02:40:38.000 And one of the guys that runs this really nice restaurant was going to open up an all-vegetarian healthy food option, a very cheap place, in the Tenderloin, which is like one of the worst places in San Francisco.

02:40:49.000 And the menu was going to vary between $2 and $6.

02:40:52.000 That's it.

02:40:53.000 And everything on the menu was between $2 and $6.

02:40:56.000 And they had like a really healthy veggie burger that actually tasted good, like Bourdain ate one.

02:41:01.000 And it's like, this is actually good.

02:41:02.000 I would actually order this.

02:41:03.000 And they're going to try to provide healthy, semi-fast food for people.

02:41:08.000 I think that's a great idea.

02:41:09.000 Why can't it be done?

02:41:10.000 I think, and it's not that difficult because a lot of healthy stuff, there's the stereotype that all the healthy stuff is crazy expensive.

02:41:17.000 Not all of it.

02:41:18.000 It's just a matter of digging in enough and finding things that can be nutritious and not crazy expensive.

02:41:23.000 Because there are those options. 0.97

02:41:24.000 It's not that simple of, oh, you need to have a bank in order to eat healthy or you eat cheaply crap. 0.98

02:41:31.000 Yeah.

02:41:32.000 There's some of it it's true, but not completely.

02:41:34.000 There are options where you can eat delicious meals that, I mean, you like to cook.

02:41:39.000 I've done times where I cook at home and I think about what I just spent and it's nothing and it's fucking delicious and it's good food and it's nutritious and I'm like...

02:41:48.000 What's wrong with that plan?

02:41:49.000 Why is that?

02:41:50.000 And I think with what you were saying earlier also that intrigued me, something I've been obsessing a bit, the distance that goes from people eating the food to the food being produced, and I don't mean just how far it travels, but even how disconnected we are.

02:42:03.000 I don't care even if it comes from three miles from here.

02:42:05.000 I mean, it's better, of course, but I'm into the idea of people having, at least to some degree, some contact with the food you eat, so you do have...

02:42:16.000 I remember you had it on the show, the image of the guy that in Milan did the vertical woods or whatever they call it.

02:42:24.000 It looked like a skyscraper where they put a bunch of trees all over it.

02:42:31.000 One of his plans now was trying to figure out how to put on all rooftops, put gardens, so that people can have their vegetable gardens, even on top of like four-story buildings or something, that there can be the building garden that everybody goes. 1.00

02:42:47.000 Now, I don't know how it's going to work in terms of, that was my tomato, fuck you, I'm going to kill you. 0.97

02:42:51.000 But having that idea where it may not be old, you're not self-sufficient, it's not all of your food, but you have some contact with the food that you end up eating. 1.00

02:43:00.000 Yeah.

02:43:00.000 I think everybody should have it to one degree or another.

02:43:03.000 And partially it's hard because most people don't have the space, the situation to do it in their backyard.

02:43:09.000 But figuring out ways on the cheap to make that happen, figuring out ways on an architectural standpoint, on multiple ways to try to make the link between people and eating food a direct one so that people...

02:43:23.000 Have a sense of where food comes from, that they raise their own food to one degree or another.

02:43:28.000 I think that would be awesome.

02:43:29.000 I don't know how realistic that is or how practical, but why not take a few steps in that direction?

02:43:34.000 Figure out how it can be done.

02:43:36.000 Yeah, I mean, everyone who has a backyard should have a garden.

02:43:40.000 It's not that difficult to grow something.

02:43:43.000 And just even if you only grow a meal a month...

02:43:47.000 Just a salad.

02:43:49.000 There's something particularly satisfying about picking a cucumber that you grew, chopping it up, putting it in a salad, cooking a squash that you grew.

02:43:57.000 It's really nice.

02:44:00.000 And I think it's primal.

02:44:01.000 I think it connects us in some sort of a way.

02:44:04.000 You appreciate it a lot more, that's for sure.

02:44:06.000 It's like you remember all the time and energy that went into getting this stuff from this big to...

02:44:12.000 Ah, there's a story behind it.

02:44:15.000 My friend Remy Warren was on the podcast yesterday and he has a show on the Outdoor Channel called Apex Predator.

02:44:22.000 And it's all about he follows these different animals and tries to learn how they hunt.

02:44:30.000 And how they survive.

02:44:32.000 And one of them, it was about bears, and he tried to forage the way a bear forages.

02:44:38.000 And he was shocked by how little you could find to eat.

02:44:42.000 Even if you know what you're doing.

02:44:44.000 It's hard, man.

02:44:45.000 And we were talking and he was saying, you look around at all these plants.

02:44:49.000 Everywhere we look, we see trees and bushes and gardens, but none of it you can eat.

02:44:53.000 Like, why do we grow so many plants?

02:44:56.000 We could just grow food everywhere.

02:44:59.000 And I was like, I never even thought about that.

02:45:01.000 Instead of palm trees, have food trees.

02:45:04.000 Like, everywhere food.

02:45:06.000 Could you imagine if everyone... 1.00

02:45:08.000 Anywhere you looked, everywhere you go, there was grapes growing and tomatoes and fucking peaches and shit. 1.00

02:45:16.000 Why not? 1.00

02:45:17.000 Exactly.

02:45:18.000 I agree 110% with that.

02:45:20.000 It's like we need to work in that direction.

02:45:23.000 It seems like it's totally possible.

02:45:25.000 If there's all these bushes and trees, every city street has bushes and trees, but none of them are growing food.

02:45:32.000 It's weird.

02:45:33.000 It makes no sense whatsoever.

02:45:34.000 It doesn't.

02:45:35.000 And it's not like those, like an apple tree is a beautiful tree, like a cherry tree.

02:45:39.000 That's a beautiful tree.

02:45:40.000 Why don't we do...

02:45:41.000 I don't get it!

02:45:42.000 I don't get it either.

02:45:44.000 It's strange.

02:45:45.000 It's like somewhere along the line we lost the plot.

02:45:48.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:45:48.000 Growing a bunch of shit we don't need. 1.00

02:45:50.000 That seemed like a really smart concept. 1.00

02:45:52.000 Yeah, that's so dumb. 0.99

02:45:54.000 Yeah, it's very strange. 0.99

02:45:55.000 It's very strange that we don't have food around us all the time.

02:45:59.000 Like, we have to rely on it getting shipped in in trucks.

02:46:02.000 Yeah, I mean, seriously, like any major American city, or for no matter, most cities in the world are this far away, like they are one big blackout away from everybody turning into the walking dead.

02:46:13.000 Yeah.

02:46:14.000 It's where things get really ugly really quick because nobody has any idea how to get food.

02:46:20.000 Sigh.

02:46:21.000 Tanielli Bellelli.

02:46:22.000 Do we have to end on a low note like that?

02:46:23.000 No, let's pick up.

02:46:25.000 We're almost out of time now.

02:46:26.000 We have very little time here left.

02:46:28.000 What do you got there?

02:46:28.000 What's the book you got?

02:46:29.000 Oh, this is...

02:46:30.000 I'm doing research.

02:46:31.000 This is a book about Caravaggio, the Italian painter.

02:46:34.000 I'm doing...

02:46:35.000 Because I prepare a bunch of the research.

02:46:37.000 For History on Fire, I prepare a lot of research ahead because otherwise what Dan Carlin ended up doing is that you do need to have these humongous gaps between one episode and the next to research because it takes...

02:46:47.000 I was doing the math the other day just because I was bored and I figured it...

02:46:50.000 Take me to produce a two-hour episode for History on Fire.

02:46:53.000 It takes me probably about 200 hours of work of preparation and research and read the book and take the notes and do this and that.

02:47:00.000 So, I mean, that's a full-time job.

02:47:02.000 I can't release episodes often if I'm doing other things.

02:47:06.000 So what I did is for the last two years, I basically prepared to start History on Fire.

02:47:11.000 So you knew you were going to do this?

02:47:13.000 Yeah.

02:47:13.000 For the last couple of years I've been working at it.

02:47:16.000 Not all the time, you know, while I do another thing, but I basically prepare eight episodes so I would have the research ready to roll.

02:47:24.000 I just need to record it and that's it.

02:47:26.000 So it buys me a little time so I can release episodes every six weeks now.

02:47:32.000 Right.

02:47:49.000 By delivering episodes on a relatively often schedule, I can also hook up more people and by that point they may be more forgiving if I take longer to do the research.

02:47:59.000 Well, it's such an intensive style of podcasting.

02:48:02.000 It's really not just educational, but it's like You're kind of doing a lecture.

02:48:08.000 It's like an audio lecture.

02:48:09.000 Yeah, when I did episode two, I was really happy with episode one. 0.98

02:48:13.000 I thought, it kicks ass. 0.96

02:48:14.000 It's good. 0.99

02:48:15.000 It's everything I wanted that I picture in my mind is coming out.

02:48:18.000 I did episode two.

02:48:20.000 I listened to it, and I'm like, this is a B effort.

02:48:23.000 This is not what I wanted.

02:48:25.000 But I did the whole thing.

02:48:26.000 I recorded it over a few days.

02:48:28.000 I'm like...

02:48:29.000 No, come on! 0.99

02:48:30.000 And then I was like, you know what? 1.00

02:48:31.000 Fuck it. 1.00

02:48:32.000 Delete. 1.00

02:48:32.000 Let's start over. 1.00

02:48:33.000 Wow.

02:48:34.000 You deleted it.

02:48:35.000 Yeah.

02:48:35.000 I was like, no, I don't want to do it specially.

02:48:37.000 Definitely not at the beginning, but in general.

02:48:40.000 Did you release it and then delete it?

02:48:41.000 No, no.

02:48:42.000 I just recorded it.

02:48:44.000 We were about to put the intro, the outro, that kind of thing.

02:48:47.000 And I was listening.

02:48:48.000 And I'm like, no, it doesn't have that punch that I want.

02:48:51.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:48:53.000 And so I was like, no, fuck it. 1.00

02:48:54.000 So do you do it on an outline? 1.00

02:48:57.000 Yeah, it's a fairly detailed outline.

02:49:00.000 Now, you don't want to script it, because of course then it doesn't sound natural, but you want to have it pretty clear of where you are going, and so if you have the quotation that you need to quote, it's right there.

02:49:10.000 You know exactly where it's going, so it's semi-scripted, but then you do it where you can.

02:49:16.000 It's kind of like if I deliver a lecture in class.

02:49:18.000 I'll take a peek at my notes, and I'm like, oh, that's where I need to go next.

02:49:21.000 But then you deliver it in a more natural style.

02:49:24.000 So I'll write a good chunk of notes, but then of course you don't read the notes, you just have them there to keep you on track so that you know where you're going next.

02:49:35.000 I'd be really curious to see if your accent is the same by episode 9. I honestly doubt it's going to change because, again, if I could hear it...

02:49:44.000 You know, actually, I got in trouble because I said it on your podcast, I think the first time I was on your podcast.

02:49:49.000 And as a joke, I said, you know, no, I used to speak perfect English.

02:49:52.000 I just am using it for women, right? 0.99

02:49:55.000 And people took it seriously.

02:49:56.000 They thought that I really... 1.00

02:49:58.000 You fucking pig! 1.00

02:49:59.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:49:59.000 And by the fact, if I could pull that off, I actually would do it because still, if I can get women that way, I would do it. 1.00

02:50:05.000 But it really just, I don't hear it.

02:50:06.000 Yeah.

02:50:06.000 Well, you have a green light to do it because you're Italian.

02:50:09.000 If I moved to Italy and I started talking like this, then I would be a poser.

02:50:14.000 You're not a poser.

02:50:15.000 But the fact is also, it would take an insane amount of work to change because I don't hear it.

02:50:21.000 So I would have to really sit down and just spend forever doing...

02:50:26.000 You have the most extreme version of a completely fluent English language that I've ever heard. 0.98

02:50:32.000 With a heavy ass accent. 0.97

02:50:34.000 Anthony Bourdain's wife is from Italy and she has a very strong Italian accent, but she's way clearer than you. 0.97

02:50:44.000 I mean, you and I have been friends for a long time, so I know exactly what you're saying, what you're saying. 0.98

02:50:48.000 But if I didn't know you, I'd probably be like, what the fuck did he just say? 0.97

02:50:52.000 There's a flow to it, though. 0.99

02:50:57.000 And some people have zero problems, right?

02:51:00.000 Most people are like, oh, no, I understand everything you say, no problem.

02:51:03.000 And then there are people who have no idea of one word I'm saying.

02:51:06.000 I had a friend, we were talking on the phone, and they were like, Oh, so I'm going to cook tonight.

02:51:12.000 And I'm like, what do you want to eat?

02:51:14.000 And they said, I don't know.

02:51:15.000 I said, I was thinking of making some salmon.

02:51:18.000 And they're like, what?

02:51:20.000 Salmon?

02:51:21.000 What?

02:51:23.000 Salmon?

02:51:24.000 Sorry, I... Fish.

02:51:25.000 Oh, fish.

02:51:26.000 Okay, great.

02:51:26.000 What kind of fish?

02:51:27.000 Salmon.

02:51:27.000 They're like...

02:51:28.000 Because, of course, you don't say salmon, right? 1.00

02:51:31.000 That's a moron. 1.00

02:51:32.000 They can't put two and two together? 1.00

02:51:33.000 No.

02:51:34.000 But also my pronouns say salmon.

02:51:37.000 I'm pronouncing every single letter, whereas in English it's...

02:51:40.000 Salmon.

02:51:40.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:51:40.000 Thank you, my one.

02:51:41.000 But I can't...

02:51:42.000 And no one says salmon.

02:51:45.000 Yeah.

02:51:45.000 Right?

02:51:45.000 That's not how you say it.

02:51:46.000 You're making up words.

02:51:47.000 Exactly.

02:51:48.000 I spell out every single thing.

02:51:50.000 Because in Italian, every letter that's there is meant to be pronounced. 0.99

02:51:54.000 So you read every single damn letter. 0.90

02:51:56.000 In English, that's not the case. 0.98

02:51:58.000 And so that's confusing most of the time.

02:52:00.000 But there's also some weird things, like two Cs or an H. Sure.

02:52:04.000 Yeah.

02:52:05.000 And two Ls or a Y. Things get weird.

02:52:08.000 Yeah.

02:52:08.000 That's the phonetic differences between the way letters, like that's a big issue obviously with Portuguese to English too, with the Brazilians or the R's or H's and everything gets very weird when you try to translate it back and forth.

02:52:22.000 Well that was one I wanted to ask you earlier, but I had actually forgotten.

02:52:26.000 When we were talking about translating, when you're talking about the difference between learning English and seeing how short and abrupt the sentences are as opposed to like the Italian, How difficult is it when they're translating ancient historical texts?

02:52:42.000 It's crazy hard.

02:52:43.000 It's crazy hard.

02:52:44.000 That's why a lot of translations are...

02:52:46.000 It's an art form.

02:52:47.000 Some translators are awesome, and who knows if they are really true to the original language, but some translators can produce something amazing, and some don't.

02:52:57.000 I love Tao Te Ching, you know, when you read Taoism.

02:53:00.000 Some translations are painful. 0.99

02:53:01.000 I don't give a fuck. 0.99

02:53:02.000 It's like, this is boring as hell. 1.00

02:53:04.000 I don't know what they are talking about.

02:53:05.000 And you read the next translation, it's the best book you've ever read.

02:53:07.000 And it's like, how can that even be?

02:53:09.000 Right.

02:53:10.000 Well, there's some sort of an artistic license in the translations.

02:53:13.000 Yeah.

02:53:14.000 That's what it is.

02:53:15.000 That's what really kind of has to be taken into account when you're talking about any really ancient thing that's in a language.

02:53:23.000 You have to take into account the time that they wrote it, the way people communicated back then.

02:53:27.000 Even if you read ancient English stuff, like the way they talked.

02:53:31.000 I mean, even just read the Declaration of Independence.

02:53:34.000 The way people describe things and communicate it, it's odd.

02:53:38.000 It is.

02:53:38.000 It's hard to wrap your head around, you know?

02:53:41.000 Big time.

02:53:42.000 Yeah, it's translation from one culture to another, one time period to another, and all those combined, like ancient Italian literature, translating that into modern American English.

02:53:55.000 It's got to be, like, super bizarre.

02:53:57.000 Yeah, you're kind of rewriting it to some degree.

02:54:00.000 It's a cooperation between the writer and the translator, and it's...

02:54:05.000 That's why when I... There were a lot of books that I read in Italian because my English sucked and I couldn't really read in English.

02:54:10.000 And when I finally got to read them in English, I'm like, well, that's another book.

02:54:13.000 That's completely different.

02:54:15.000 There are some similarities, but it's a whole different style.

02:54:19.000 It's not even close.

02:54:20.000 Yeah, I would think that would be the case absolutely with the Bible.

02:54:25.000 To really understand the Bible, you have to truly understand...

02:54:29.000 Whatever translation you're getting, Aramaic.

02:54:31.000 You would have to truly understand ancient Hebrew.

02:54:34.000 But ancient Hebrew is like a real squirrely language anyway, right? 1.00

02:54:37.000 Nobody speaks it exactly the way it was, so it's kind of...

02:54:42.000 There's a lot of guesswork, of course.

02:54:44.000 Well, this is one of the weirdest ones because it's also a number.

02:54:47.000 It's a numerical language, like the letter A is the number one.

02:54:50.000 They don't have numbers.

02:54:51.000 The letters served as numbers as well.

02:54:53.000 So it's like words had numerical value.

02:54:56.000 Good luck translating that.

02:54:58.000 And there's a bunch of words today.

02:55:01.000 There's a debate about what percentage are still under debate.

02:55:06.000 It's like what it actually means and what it doesn't mean.

02:55:11.000 Imagine if you could learn ancient Hebrew exactly how they did it.

02:55:16.000 Then you would understand what they were trying to say.

02:55:18.000 But even then, you wouldn't understand it unless you were in the context of the culture that existed.

02:55:24.000 You had to know how they thought about things.

02:55:27.000 Exactly.

02:55:28.000 That's why most of the time you don't really know what that guy said.

02:55:33.000 This translation sounds better, so I'll go with that one.

02:55:36.000 But you don't really know which one they meant.

02:55:38.000 Well, it's got to be one of the most difficult aspects about history, too, because it was written by people who decided how they wanted people to remember the turn of events.

02:55:48.000 Exactly.

02:55:49.000 Whether or not that's exactly how it went down.

02:55:52.000 There are cases where there's, like, the Egyptian guy who left the record of, like, oh, we met the Hittites, and we kicked their ass, and we wiped them out, and the pharaoh is the best, and then you read the Hittite account, and it's like, whoa, that does not look like the same battle they're talking about. 0.85

02:56:07.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:56:07.000 Yeah, it's how do you know what the fuck really happened? 0.98

02:56:10.000 I mean, we have this vague sense of what happened. 0.97

02:56:13.000 We know, like, facts.

02:56:15.000 Like, these people aren't around anymore, so somebody killed them.

02:56:18.000 You know, well, we found this pile of bones, and this is where we think we found Troy, because this is a spot. 1.00

02:56:25.000 Like, fuck, man. 0.99

02:56:26.000 There's a ton of guesswork involved in history. 1.00

02:56:28.000 You know, we make it sound like it's this super hard science, and, you know, you want to be as scientific as possible, but there's a lot of guesswork at the end of the day.

02:56:36.000 That's so weird.

02:56:38.000 It's so weird that we're trying to piece together the past to understand how we got here.

02:56:43.000 Almost like a giant crime scene of the world.

02:56:46.000 Yep. 0.99

02:56:46.000 We're slowly like brushing fingerprint dust on things and trying to figure out where the fucking blood splattered from and what happened. 0.99

02:56:55.000 Yep. 1.00

02:56:55.000 What the fuck happened? 1.00

02:56:57.000 And then you have to go over some shit that people wrote down. 1.00

02:57:00.000 You don't even know what the hell they were saying. 0.99

02:57:01.000 Yeah.

02:57:02.000 You get a bunch of scholars.

02:57:03.000 There's one episode I want to do next.

02:57:05.000 There's no primary sources.

02:57:07.000 It's all archaeology.

02:57:09.000 And it's this guy.

02:57:10.000 I don't know if you remember the story.

02:57:11.000 That guy that they found the body perfectly preserved from 5,000 years ago up in the Alps.

02:57:16.000 The Iceman?

02:57:16.000 Yeah, the Iceman.

02:57:18.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:57:19.000 And it's an awesome story because through archaeology, you find out so much.

02:57:23.000 You can find out what this guy was eating 5,000 years ago, all of this stuff.

02:57:28.000 And yet, ultimately, you don't know what the hell it was, but it's the mystery, right?

02:57:32.000 You know enough to tease you, but just not enough to actually know what was up.

02:57:37.000 Yeah.

02:57:38.000 It's amazing, though, that you can find something like that preserved and at least get a short window into that time. 0.97

02:57:45.000 Jamie just gave me the two-minute mark, so we've got to wrap this bitch up. 1.00

02:57:48.000 It's over, baby! 0.99

02:57:50.000 We just did it.

02:57:50.000 Three hours, my friend.

02:57:51.000 These are so much fun.

02:57:52.000 Flew by!

02:57:53.000 Flew by!

02:57:53.000 I love it every time.

02:57:55.000 History on Fire.

02:57:56.000 Two episodes are available, and episode zero as well, right?

02:57:59.000 Like a little pilot episode to let everybody know what's up.

02:58:02.000 And anything else?

02:58:04.000 Got a book coming out next month, so early December.

02:58:10.000 People can, if they're interested, they can check out on Amazon.

02:58:12.000 We'll tweet about it, we'll let everybody know, and I'll have you back in once the book's out, too.

02:58:17.000 My brother, thank you so much, sir.

02:58:18.000 Thank you.

02:58:19.000 Alright, my friends, that's it for this week.

02:58:21.000 We'll be back next week.

02:58:22.000 Till then, see you soon.

02:58:23.000 Bye-bye, bye-bye.

The Joe Rogan Experience - October 31, 2015

Joe Rogan Experience #716 - Daniele Bolelli

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Summary

Transcript