The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #719 - Josh Olin

00:00:00.000 Boom! 0.99

00:00:00.000 And we're live. 0.99

00:00:01.000 Joshua, how are you?

00:00:03.000 I'm good, Joe.

00:00:03.000 How are you?

00:00:04.000 Dude, your story...

00:00:05.000 Well, we were talking before this, alright?

00:00:07.000 Because I had seen online that you had gotten fired for this whole Donald Sterling comment thing, and then you had said to me, you took some heat for the Donald Sterling thing, too.

00:00:17.000 But not really.

00:00:19.000 I didn't.

00:00:20.000 There's no...

00:00:21.000 The only real heat is...

00:00:23.000 You get in trouble.

00:00:25.000 You lose a job.

00:00:27.000 You actually got fired for saying something that's entirely reasonable. 0.96

00:00:32.000 And I'm going to paraphrase what you said, but I believe what you said was he has every right to be an old bigot in the privacy of his home and that he's a victim because this fucking floozy that he was hanging around with had recorded him and then leaked the audio. 0.94

00:00:47.000 Right. 0.97

00:00:49.000 Which is totally, completely reasonable.

00:00:51.000 You called him an old bigot.

00:00:53.000 You didn't in any way support him.

00:00:55.000 Right.

00:00:55.000 I said he was a bigot in my own statement.

00:00:57.000 Even the statement that was isolated.

00:00:59.000 Yeah.

00:01:00.000 Thank you for picking up on that.

00:01:01.000 But this idea that in the privacy of your own home, that your words should be gone over with a fine-tooth comb by the entire world, and that's not some horrendous invasion of privacy. 0.99

00:01:16.000 Like, that's fucked, man. 0.99

00:01:18.000 To me, that invasion of privacy is a way more egregious error than someone being a shithead at his own time, right? 1.00

00:01:24.000 And even what he said, the reality of what he said... 0.99

00:01:28.000 He said, and he never used a racial slur, I mean, call him a bigot if you will, but what he said was, I don't want, to his girlfriend, I don't want you taking pictures with these black guys. 1.00

00:01:41.000 I don't care if you fuck them, but I don't want you taking pictures with them. 1.00

00:01:48.000 I don't care if you fuck them is a huge part of his statement. 1.00

00:01:53.000 I would not say that's a bigot. 1.00

00:01:55.000 I mean, look, so worst case, right?

00:01:57.000 Or best case, depending on what your perspective is, social justice warrior or whatever.

00:02:02.000 But yeah, best case scenario, worst case scenario, he's a bigot, right?

00:02:05.000 But even that shouldn't affect me the way that it seemed to have been affecting everybody, right?

00:02:09.000 And the way that the media was hyping it up and the media was spinning it and totally not necessarily looking at...

00:02:17.000 Yeah.

00:02:39.000 You know, rushing in to do some great social justice.

00:02:42.000 I think that at the end of the day, she was really out to, you know, take this guy down or get something out of it, right?

00:02:48.000 Well, didn't she say that she didn't release it?

00:02:51.000 I believe that was her statement.

00:02:53.000 Yeah.

00:02:53.000 I mean, whoever got a hold of it, I don't know what her statement is.

00:02:57.000 And at the end of the day, Joe, to me, it's hearsay, right?

00:03:00.000 All of that shouldn't matter to me.

00:03:01.000 What matters to me is...

00:03:03.000 And what I was trying to call attention to and what I've always tried to call attention to is the way people...

00:03:08.000 We have these weird priorities.

00:03:09.000 We love to have this endorphin drip.

00:03:13.000 We love to be angry.

00:03:14.000 We love to be a part of something big.

00:03:16.000 And then we don't necessarily take a step back and look at the big picture of what was happening, what was going down, and what could we be talking about instead of all of this stuff.

00:03:26.000 Right.

00:03:26.000 Well, it's just infuriating to me that you can get fired for what I believe is an incredibly innocuous statement.

00:03:33.000 I mean, maybe this is coming from me, maybe my perception of the difference between working for a public company and having controversial opinions, and me being a comedian, a cage-fighting commentator.

00:03:49.000 I have different standards, I guess.

00:03:51.000 It's a different world. 0.97

00:03:52.000 Yeah, I mean, I can say something pretty fucked up, and I might get a call from the UFC, and they're like, what are you, drunk? 0.97

00:03:58.000 You know, like, that's it. 0.97

00:03:59.000 And you're like, yeah, pretty much. 0.99

00:04:01.000 I might say it, and then I'll say, sorry, I was fucked up. 0.99

00:04:03.000 And then it goes away. 0.99

00:04:05.000 But, you know, I just can't believe that the standards are so low.

00:04:09.000 Or the outrage standards. 1.00

00:04:13.000 That it requires such a minimal ripple on the seismograph that people will freak out to the point where you can lose your fucking job for calling someone a bigot and saying, this guy should have the right to do that in his home and be a piece of shit. 1.00

00:04:32.000 I know what to expect from Westboro Baptist Church, right? 1.00

00:04:37.000 I know what to expect from the KKK, right? 1.00

00:04:39.000 I don't agree with any of that shit, and I abhor it. 1.00

00:04:42.000 I think that they're all scumbags, but I kind of know what to expect from that, and that shouldn't surprise me when some headline comes out or when they do some weird stuff, right? 0.99

00:04:51.000 A lot of people were saying, you know, well, Donald Sterling, he had this huge, long history of being like racially weird and questionable. 0.98

00:04:59.000 So it's like, well, then why are you acting really surprised that this thing happened at all?

00:05:03.000 And why are you supporting like a breach of privacy in that way?

00:05:07.000 Because that, to me, is a more sort of inalienable right to privacy.

00:05:14.000 Yeah.

00:05:14.000 I completely and totally agree.

00:05:16.000 And I think that this idea that somehow or another, you should be on your best behavior all the time.

00:05:25.000 You can't just say something.

00:05:25.000 If you're alone and you want to say something completely disgusting...

00:05:29.000 You may or may not mean it.

00:05:32.000 You might be under the influence of alcohol or drugs, but you're not giving public statements.

00:05:38.000 And so for those public statements or for it to get out like a public statement and for people to absorb it and then analyze it and critique it and criticize it and then get crazy about it. 0.91

00:05:51.000 I found it ridiculous. 0.91

00:05:52.000 And I think if the guy does have this long history of being racist, I understand it then. 0.87

00:05:57.000 Then I understand why people are upset.

00:05:59.000 They're like, good, we got him.

00:06:00.000 Like, here it is.

00:06:01.000 We caught him.

00:06:02.000 What does that have to do with me?

00:06:03.000 Right.

00:06:04.000 But understand how you caught him.

00:06:06.000 Yeah.

00:06:06.000 You know?

00:06:07.000 I mean, you caught him in a fucked up way that nobody should get caught that way. 0.95

00:06:11.000 I mean, that's just not how the world is supposed to work in America in 2015. I mean, what is everybody upset about? 0.96

00:06:18.000 Everybody's upset about this Edward Snowden thing, right? 0.93

00:06:21.000 Because Edward Snowden found out that the NSA is secretly wiretapping every fucking phone in the country and recording all your emails, recording all your voicemails, and everybody got crazy. 0.97

00:06:33.000 Like, that's outrageous. 0.98

00:06:35.000 Well, that's no different.

00:06:36.000 This is all private stuff.

00:06:39.000 I mean, this is very similar.

00:06:41.000 It's along the same lines. 0.99

00:06:42.000 The idea that you can be judged, and him, ultimately, I mean, the guy got his fucking team taken away. 0.99

00:06:48.000 He got hammered. 1.00

00:06:49.000 It's insane.

00:06:50.000 It changed the course of his life and for someone like that too like he's a billionaire He's the money aspect is hardly anything for him right to him It's his legacy the thing that mattered most to him completely trash completely gone and again It doesn't matter who he was and what other people thought of him and what matters again to me is just the way that and honestly I wasn't even that mad at the NBA because if you look at if you look at the position they were in they kind of had their hand forced in a lot of ways and Under this torrential downpour of media and

00:07:20.000 public discourse.

00:07:21.000 So in a way, I almost empathize with them and the position that they were put in.

00:07:26.000 But to me, it's the way that we reacted to it and the way that we kind of were okay with it and a part of it.

00:07:32.000 And so I was trying to be the one voice of reason at the time, swimming against the stream to try to bring some common sense to the conversation, which is like, this guy, he's not this weird monster dude.

00:07:43.000 He's not like this...

00:07:46.000 Crazy guy who's wreaking havoc and blowing up cities and towns. 1.00

00:07:50.000 He's an old guy who grew up in an era very different than ours, and he might have some weird shit floating around in his head. 0.99

00:07:57.000 And maybe all of that was true, but at the end of the day, what still is not right is what's happening to him right now. 0.94

00:08:03.000 And you made this one tweet, which again, I think is fairly innocuous.

00:08:08.000 Actually, no, completely innocuous.

00:08:11.000 Totally justified.

00:08:12.000 The first tweet the company you were working for makes in response to it, they call you their former community leader.

00:08:20.000 Was that how you found out you were fired?

00:08:22.000 Practically.

00:08:23.000 So I can run you through the timetable if you want.

00:08:26.000 So the beginning of the day...

00:08:27.000 What company was it again?

00:08:28.000 Well, the company that I work for is called Turtle Rock Studios.

00:08:31.000 A bunch of really talented artists who are making an incredibly ambitious game called Evolve.

00:08:37.000 And so the game was and still is really awesome.

00:08:42.000 But the company, you know, game development, we work in a slightly different clock than most of corporate America.

00:08:47.000 We go in at like 10 a.m.

00:08:48.000 and we leave at like 7 p.m.

00:08:50.000 because we're usually up until really late in the evening.

00:08:52.000 Late in the evening, so I really don't even wake up until like 9 o'clock every day, most days.

00:08:57.000 So that day I woke up and my phone was kind of buzzing and blowing up.

00:09:01.000 One of my really close friends and colleagues at the time texted me and he was like, hey, by the way, you know, the stuff you tweeted about the other day, like some news outlet picked up on it, some small, you know, thing.

00:09:13.000 Some vulture group.

00:09:14.000 Exactly.

00:09:15.000 Who wanted to capitalize on that sensational headline.

00:09:18.000 And so he was just giving me a heads up.

00:09:19.000 And I was like, oh yeah, thanks, whatever.

00:09:22.000 To me, at the time, I was like, whatever.

00:09:24.000 I know what the group...

00:09:26.000 I don't want to name the site, but I know what they're about.

00:09:28.000 They do this all the time.

00:09:30.000 So I was like, whatever.

00:09:31.000 And then so maybe I jump in the shower and I get out and I've got texts from our GM at our studio like, you need to go Radio Dark on all social media, period.

00:09:41.000 And I was like, what?

00:09:42.000 I was like, what?

00:09:43.000 And so I texted him back, and I'm like, is this in relation to the article?

00:09:47.000 The one article that no one else picked up on, and that, like, you know, half the comments were like, dude, that's totally not what Josh was saying.

00:09:54.000 And the other half were kind of reacting sensationally to it.

00:09:56.000 But, like, the other half, even on the comments of the article, were like, you're taking him out of context.

00:10:01.000 And that was the entire extent of the controversy circling me at the time.

00:10:05.000 And then...

00:10:07.000 45 minutes later, I still haven't even left my apartment to go into the studio yet.

00:10:10.000 45 minutes later, my email stops working. 0.91

00:10:12.000 And I'm like, I'm not dumb, not stupid.

00:10:14.000 I'm like, they literally just shut off my email.

00:10:17.000 And then so I tried calling him and he didn't take my call.

00:10:20.000 And then an hour later, he's like, yeah, we should probably meet at the Starbucks around the corner.

00:10:24.000 And I was like, what?

00:10:25.000 You don't want me to come into the office and talk about this?

00:10:29.000 You don't want to hear my side of it?

00:10:30.000 You don't want to see what's what?

00:10:32.000 It's just...

00:10:34.000 Done.

00:10:34.000 And then they issued the statement that they made, which was, like, literally putting the match to the kerosene.

00:10:39.000 So maybe there was some kerosene.

00:10:41.000 Maybe there was some, like, potential for outrage.

00:10:44.000 And then when they fired me, it turned into this huge thing in the gaming industry around, like, was that right?

00:10:49.000 Was that wrong?

00:10:50.000 So, like, the vast majority of people who would have never even heard about that or even would have cared that I had tweeted that, kind of, like, everybody heard about it.

00:10:59.000 Mainstream heard about it.

00:11:00.000 Like, Mark Cuban started following me on Twitter.

00:11:01.000 Like, if you were...

00:11:02.000 If they were afraid the NBA was going to get pissed at us for me for weighing in on it then, you know, their kind of reaction to it made it like 50 times worse.

00:11:10.000 Yeah, I wish I was in on it when it happened.

00:11:13.000 Because I would have went crazy.

00:11:14.000 And I would have tweeted and...

00:11:18.000 We would have talked about it on the podcast as it happened.

00:11:21.000 I wasn't aware of it until after the fact. 0.99

00:11:23.000 But to me, it smacks of this outrage culture that we're in now, where people are just waiting for the green light to be a cunt. 0.99

00:11:31.000 And that's what it is. 0.99

00:11:32.000 It's not really that they're angry at this.

00:11:35.000 I don't believe it.

00:11:36.000 I think there's a great deal of fake outrage, recreational outrage, that we're experiencing in our culture right now.

00:11:44.000 And it's because people for the first time ever have a voice.

00:11:48.000 Instantly to talk about anything and that's what Twitter is.

00:11:52.000 That's what Facebook is.

00:11:54.000 You instantaneously can project your thoughts out to the world and people love doing it and they love being pissed off and they're most likely pissed off because of their life. 0.96

00:12:03.000 They're most likely pissed off because of their relationship or their job or their weight or, you know, whatever the fuck it is. 0.87

00:12:10.000 But they're just not balanced people, and there's a lot of them. 1.00

00:12:14.000 And they're looking to hit that fucking gas pedal when they see that green light. 1.00

00:12:18.000 Because that green light, that Josh Owens is a piece of shit, that fuck motherfucker. 1.00

00:12:21.000 He supported Donald Sterling? 1.00

00:12:23.000 How dare he?

00:12:24.000 How dare you?

00:12:25.000 Defending racism in 2015. And here's the scary thing for me, Joe, is that these people, I mean, these people, I don't want to make people sound weird, but they've always been here.

00:12:37.000 And they've only now had the microphone to talk about this.

00:12:40.000 So we as a society, society has to be better than the individual.

00:12:44.000 What I'm trying to say is that these individuals who...

00:12:47.000 You know, are fueled by that.

00:12:48.000 They've always been around.

00:12:49.000 And now we as a society need to be bigger than the individual.

00:12:52.000 And we need to look at that and understand.

00:12:54.000 We need to identify what it is, understand why it's wrong and the kind of damage and the kind of risk it presents to free thinking, free speech, and even industry.

00:13:02.000 And then we need to, you know, Change the way we're behaving very consciously, very cognizantly with everything that we do to try to suppress those feelings.

00:13:11.000 Because they're just natural tendencies.

00:13:13.000 If you try to boil it down to just the neuroscience of it, these are just emotional receptors in our brains.

00:13:19.000 It's what makes us tick.

00:13:22.000 It's why these click-baity articles like, you know, 11 crazy wonders of the world revealed after you click this link.

00:13:28.000 It's why that...

00:13:29.000 That is so successful because those appeal to the emotional centers of our brain instead of the cognitive centers of our brain.

00:13:35.000 You're being too kind. 0.79

00:13:36.000 They appeal to retards. 1.00

00:13:37.000 Say it!

00:13:39.000 And that's what's going on.

00:13:40.000 What you're doing with Twitter and with Facebook is empowering the whole world to communicate.

00:13:47.000 And it's a beautiful thing.

00:13:48.000 It's amazing.

00:13:50.000 It was meant to be a beautiful thing.

00:13:51.000 And so as a social psychologist, I self-prescribed myself to that.

00:13:57.000 I didn't go to school for this, but I'm fascinated by it.

00:13:59.000 I try to learn everything that I can about it.

00:14:01.000 And in my position that I've been in, my whole career has been building and architecting communities and the way people interact online and on social media.

00:14:09.000 So I say this with a certain amount of self-loathing because I was kind of part of the problem building that empire up.

00:14:14.000 Now I look back at it and I think...

00:14:17.000 There's problems with this.

00:14:18.000 And it's unlocking a toxicity that is running rapid across a bunch of different issues.

00:14:24.000 And it leads to just hate and bile and venom and harassment.

00:14:29.000 For now.

00:14:30.000 I honestly believe this is a temporary step on the way to a more enlightened culture.

00:14:36.000 I really do believe this.

00:14:37.000 And I think that what we're experiencing now is...

00:14:43.000 People, when you see someone write something, like what was the name of this company that you worked for again?

00:14:48.000 Turtle Rock?

00:14:49.000 Turtle Rock.

00:14:49.000 Turtle Rock Studios, if you do not fire this man, you know, expect me to boycott your business.

00:14:56.000 You don't know who wrote that. 0.96

00:14:58.000 That guy could be shitting his pants as he wrote it. 1.00

00:15:00.000 He could be jerking off into fucking other people's soup. 1.00

00:15:04.000 He could be, you know, driving on the highway with one foot on the gas and one hand on his cell phone, the other hand on his dick. 1.00

00:15:12.000 You don't know. 0.99

00:15:13.000 We don't know who these people are.

00:15:16.000 They're words.

00:15:17.000 Anyone can type a sentence.

00:15:19.000 Anyone can type...

00:15:20.000 But you don't know...

00:15:21.000 Who that person is?

00:15:22.000 Should I consider your opinion? 1.00

00:15:24.000 We all know idiots. 1.00

00:15:26.000 We've all run into idiots in our lives that if you went to them with an opinion, you asked them a question about anything, they're likely to give you some really fucking stupid answer and you wouldn't even consider it because you go, oh, well, that's Mike. 1.00

00:15:40.000 Mike's a tool. 1.00

00:15:41.000 You know, of course he said that. 1.00

00:15:43.000 He's a fool. 1.00

00:15:44.000 And When you see Mike's words written down with a period and an exclamation point, and it looks all normal, it doesn't seem like it came from a fucking idiot. 1.00

00:15:55.000 We're used to talking to people. 1.00

00:15:57.000 I look at you, I can tell you're a reasonable, intelligent guy, we're having a wonderful conversation, and you're normal. 1.00

00:16:03.000 But if you're some fucking idiot, and you were saying the same thing that these people that are outraged about your Your tweet about John Sterling. 1.00

00:16:14.000 If you were an idiot and you were saying that, I would immediately dismiss it. 1.00

00:16:17.000 I would say, well, this guy's an idiot. 1.00

00:16:18.000 This is real simple. 1.00

00:16:20.000 But on mass and in that wave and online and social media without that context, you don't know. 1.00

00:16:24.000 And you don't know if this guy's an idiot or if he's a thought leader. 0.97

00:16:26.000 And so then all of those messages and all of those tweets and all of those hashtags, they add up and we lose the context. 1.00

00:16:33.000 I mean, we lose the forest through the trees.

00:16:36.000 We don't just do that.

00:16:37.000 It's also, these people haven't earned the ability to communicate.

00:16:41.000 They haven't earned it.

00:16:42.000 They've just found it, like I haven't earned it.

00:16:45.000 I just found it.

00:16:46.000 I mean, I stumbled upon this ability through the internet.

00:16:50.000 I mean, that's what we've all done.

00:16:51.000 You haven't really earned it.

00:16:52.000 Right.

00:16:52.000 But at least you're consistent about it, right?

00:16:54.000 Your message is always fairly, fairly, coming from a very pragmatic place.

00:16:57.000 You take a look at the guy, you know, one arbitrary guy who is typing some angry shit in his Twitter feed, and you scroll back through his history and the stuff that he was complaining about just the other day or the last week, it could be in stark contrast to whatever he happened to be angry about today, right?

00:17:11.000 Of course. 0.96

00:17:11.000 Or coming from a completely different place of morals and standards that he has. 0.96

00:17:15.000 Well, that's one of the coolest things about Twitter is that when someone says something really stupid, you go to their Twitter page and go, oh, look at this amazing river of retardation that's coming out of your fat head, you know? 1.00

00:17:26.000 It's funny. 1.00

00:17:27.000 I used to have a real problem with, like, I used to get baited easily into stupid arguments and just stupid, spend hours trying to change a guy. 0.99

00:17:34.000 And I started doing that, right, where I'd click through and I'd read through. 0.99

00:17:37.000 I'm just like, this isn't worth it.

00:17:39.000 It's not worth my time.

00:17:41.000 It's almost never worth it.

00:17:42.000 It's almost never worth it.

00:17:43.000 But I think that these people have never had this ability to communicate before, and they don't think about it too much.

00:17:49.000 And I think that this power that human beings have today through social media, it's amazing.

00:17:56.000 Ultimately, it's way better than not having it.

00:18:01.000 And I think it's an amazing time, but this is how I like to put it in perspective to people. 1.00

00:18:06.000 If you're in a room with a hundred people, what are the odds that one of those people is a total fucking moron? 1.00

00:18:14.000 It's about a hundred percent. 1.00

00:18:16.000 If you have 100 people in a room, you could have 99 amazing people.

00:18:21.000 As a comic, you see this all the time.

00:18:22.000 It's the one heckler. 1.00

00:18:23.000 It's the one asshole in the room, right? 1.00

00:18:25.000 And so you just expand that out to the whole world. 0.99

00:18:27.000 Expand that out to the entire Twitter.com domain.

00:18:29.000 Well, just the whole planet.

00:18:31.000 Look at the United States of America.

00:18:33.000 If it's one out of 100, that means there's three point whatever.

00:18:37.000 Five?

00:18:38.000 What is it?

00:18:39.000 350 million people in this country?

00:18:40.000 In America, yeah. 0.93

00:18:40.000 That's three and a half million retards. 0.93

00:18:42.000 Three and a half million slobbering shitheads just pounding on their keyboards, demanding action, demanding you get fired, demanding you get reprimanded, demanding you apologize. 1.00

00:18:59.000 And over what? 1.00

00:19:00.000 Over their shitty fucking lives. 1.00

00:19:02.000 That's what it is. 1.00

00:19:03.000 But what the real problem is, is that companies like Turtle Rock are pussies. 1.00

00:19:10.000 And that they can't look at this rationally. 0.99

00:19:13.000 They can't look at this reasonably.

00:19:15.000 Two human beings.

00:19:16.000 Just like, why did you write that? 0.98

00:19:18.000 Oh, I wrote it because, you know, I feel like the invasion of privacy thing is much more important than the fact that this guy said something that was, you know, racially fucked up. 0.95

00:19:26.000 Okay, good point. 0.97

00:19:27.000 We got it.

00:19:28.000 I mean, that would be the end of it. 0.99

00:19:29.000 But you're taking these opinions from all these other people, people that are chiming in just because they're looking for that fucking green light. 0.98

00:19:36.000 They're looking to hit that gas because they're frustrated, because they're stuck in traffic all day, because their body sucks, because their girlfriend doesn't want to touch them. 1.00

00:19:44.000 Whatever the fuck... 1.00

00:19:46.000 That's their life context, but that's their shit. 1.00

00:19:48.000 Let them deal with it, right? 0.99

00:19:49.000 Don't bring repercussions on other people.

00:19:51.000 And again, me, you know, I'm fine, whatever.

00:19:54.000 I'm doing just fine.

00:19:55.000 But the kind of damage that that did to people that I cared about who were still at the company, right?

00:20:00.000 Like my friends there, my colleagues who...

00:20:02.000 Because when that all happened, like it was just that, right?

00:20:04.000 It was mostly people just yelling and angry at them for doing what they did to me, right?

00:20:09.000 Well, they should be.

00:20:10.000 That makes sense.

00:20:13.000 That should be the repercussion for firing someone for free speech. 0.70

00:20:17.000 And that wasn't good, though, either, right?

00:20:20.000 That was still really bad, too.

00:20:22.000 To me, that wasn't even any better, right?

00:20:25.000 No, the way it's better is you take the person who fired you, and they should be fired.

00:20:29.000 And they should be publicly flogged. 0.99

00:20:31.000 Someone should take them out with rubber dicks. 1.00

00:20:34.000 Just smack them in the face like a hundred lashes. 1.00

00:20:37.000 It's just, it's nonsense. 1.00

00:20:38.000 It's a fool's endeavor to try to please all the fucking idiots of the world and to not look at that. 1.00

00:20:49.000 I don't know how anybody can look at what you said rationally and be outraged. 1.00

00:20:52.000 You'd have to be a real fucking piece of shit to get angry at that enough to think that you should lose your ability to make a living. 1.00

00:21:00.000 You should lose your job. 1.00

00:21:01.000 But that's what people love to do.

00:21:03.000 They love to get people fired. 0.86

00:21:05.000 I mean, it's one of the...

00:21:08.000 More invasive aspects of social media.

00:21:11.000 The social justice warrior types that will try to get people fired from their job, and they will organize and attack, and they're trying to get a result.

00:21:20.000 And when they get a result, like these Turtle Rock dummies who fired you, They feel like they've claimed victory. 0.97

00:21:27.000 But there's no victory there.

00:21:29.000 You know, you went on to get a better job. 0.99

00:21:31.000 They went on to get fucked over. 1.00

00:21:33.000 The whole thing turned into a big shit fest. 1.00

00:21:35.000 And online, it became this hot point of debate. 0.99

00:21:39.000 And I think ultimately...

00:21:41.000 They should learn, and everyone should learn.

00:21:43.000 Everyone should learn.

00:21:43.000 That's the thing.

00:21:44.000 What I would want to do and what I keep doing, and it didn't stop at all, by the way.

00:21:48.000 I'm okay with being the provocative guy, right?

00:21:51.000 Provocation doesn't always have to be a negative word, right?

00:21:53.000 Anytime you evoke an emotion, it's because you're saying something distinct.

00:21:57.000 You're not being just sameness and muted and average and completely agreeable.

00:22:02.000 I like being the guy who has, like, Poignant thoughts who wants to share a different angle and a different perspective with as many people as I can and just try to keep the conversation moving forward because what you end up seeing and what people are trained into doing,

00:22:18.000 which happened with my whole thing, is they get trained into taking a side and then closing off the other side.

00:22:25.000 You see this a lot with...

00:22:26.000 Do you have any Facebook friends that are like some who are either super religious or some who are super atheist?

00:22:54.000 Mm-hmm.

00:22:54.000 What I noticed that he would keep doing is he'd get into these arguments and then he would defriend all of the religious people.

00:23:00.000 And when I take a step back and I observe his behavior, what he's doing is he's surrounding himself with more and more like-minded people.

00:23:06.000 And he's removing any other discourse that might...

00:23:10.000 Like, you don't evolve unless you debate, unless you have a conversation, right?

00:23:13.000 Right.

00:23:14.000 So he's just surrounding himself with more of these like-minded people who share his ideas.

00:23:18.000 And then he's ranting and venting with those group of like-minded people about how angering the other side makes them.

00:23:24.000 So now he's not even having a debate with the other side. 0.96

00:23:27.000 He's just having this circle jerk with his own group of friends about what they assume the other side thinks and means and believes. 0.97

00:23:35.000 And so you take that... 0.95

00:23:37.000 With any issue or with any set of values that you have, it's the same thing.

00:23:41.000 Anytime that you cut off ties with another person, you could call that, well, I just surround myself with people who make me happy.

00:23:48.000 But I call that almost like, if that's the case, then you kind of forfeit the right to be mad at me for having a different opinion.

00:23:53.000 Because if you're not going to come to the table and understand what my opinion is and have a conversation with me about where I'm coming from, then you kind of lose the right to make up your mind about what I think and believe.

00:24:05.000 That's a very good point.

00:24:06.000 It's a very good point.

00:24:07.000 As long as you look at it reasonably and as long as you look at it objectively and saying, am I getting anything good out of this?

00:24:13.000 Like, for example, you arguing with these people online that you don't want to argue with.

00:24:18.000 You go to their Twitter feed, look at what they're saying to you, and you go, what am I doing?

00:24:21.000 Sure.

00:24:21.000 Why am I getting involved with them?

00:24:23.000 I don't want to engage with this person because it's pointless to me.

00:24:26.000 Like, in that sense, like, well, no, you don't need to let that person into your life.

00:24:30.000 That's true. 1.00

00:24:30.000 And if you read some ridiculous, inflammatory, stupid shit that someone's writing, you can make a value choice. 1.00

00:24:39.000 You can make a choice, like, you know what? 1.00

00:24:40.000 My time is very valuable, and I just, I want to de-friend this guy.

00:24:44.000 I don't want to be involved.

00:24:45.000 Yeah.

00:24:46.000 There is something that's going on in this culture that I think is happening because of this incredible new ability to communicate and form these groups of like-minded people, where you get this massive confirmation bias in these groups.

00:24:58.000 And because of that, they reject outright any notion of debate upon these issues.

00:25:04.000 And this is a big problem right now in universities.

00:25:07.000 It's a huge problem where people don't want to be offended, and they're trying to create safe spaces, and they're trying to create places where you can't say things that they might think are offensive, but you might think are totally reasonable, like your tweet.

00:25:21.000 Like, your tweet, in a lot of universities, would be deemed incredibly offensive, even though it's a legitimate subject of debate.

00:25:31.000 It's a legitimate subject of debate. 1.00

00:25:32.000 Like, why try to change this old fuck? 1.00

00:25:34.000 He's gonna be dead in a month. 1.00

00:25:36.000 What do you give a shit? 1.00

00:25:37.000 Well, why are we wasting our energy on this? 1.00

00:25:38.000 Exactly.

00:25:38.000 There's so many bigger issues that we face every day that we couldn't talk about.

00:25:41.000 We're involved in a lot of war right now, and yet we're worrying about Donald fucking Sterling. 0.99

00:25:46.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:25:46.000 You know? 0.99

00:25:47.000 And any time that you say that, now you run the risk of, is Joe Rogan a racist?

00:25:51.000 Does he not care about race relations in the United States?

00:25:53.000 And it's like, that's not the point.

00:25:55.000 But you don't run that risk.

00:25:57.000 That's not true. 1.00

00:25:58.000 You run that risk with idiots. 1.00

00:26:00.000 It's not a reasonable risk. 1.00

00:26:02.000 It shouldn't be.

00:26:03.000 It shouldn't be, and it's not. 0.96

00:26:04.000 It's not, and that's where your company fucked up, because it's not a reasonable... 0.92

00:26:09.000 If you look at what you wrote, firing someone for that is not a reasonable reaction. 0.95

00:26:14.000 If you look at what you wrote, being infuriated at you, and wanting your job, and wanting your head, and wanting you to pay, and wanting you to publicly apologize, that's not a reasonable reaction either.

00:26:25.000 This idea that everyone has to acquiesce, that everyone has to bow down to the masses, and anytime there's anything controversial, you're best off just keeping your mouth shut.

00:26:36.000 You're best off just not communicating and not projecting your thoughts for fear of other people disagreeing, and then the hate and the anger.

00:26:45.000 What does that world look like, diluted down, generation over generation?

00:26:48.000 Is that really the world you would want to be in?

00:26:50.000 It's not America, I'll tell you that! 0.69

00:26:52.000 It's not my America! 1.00

00:26:53.000 Yeah, it's a land of pussies. 1.00

00:26:55.000 It's ridiculous. 1.00

00:26:56.000 It's just... 0.98

00:26:57.000 You said the confirmation bias is probably the best way to put it.

00:27:00.000 It's also, no pun intended, the way we look at it black and white.

00:27:05.000 We look at it like there's no gray area with a lot of these people.

00:27:08.000 So in gaming, another big issue now is feminism in Gamergate. 1.00

00:27:13.000 And so you take a feminist activist who's saying some stuff, and if you are to, which, by the way, let's say I wholly support, Equal rights, gender equality, all forms of equality.

00:27:25.000 I think people should be deemed as who they are as people and what they're saying and what they're bringing to the world.

00:27:29.000 It doesn't matter about your age, gender, sexual orientation, nothing.

00:27:32.000 But let's say that I'm talking to a feminist and she says something that I think is just wrong. 1.00

00:27:38.000 I think it's a bad opinion.

00:27:40.000 It's an opinion form based on a bias or it's an invalid stat.

00:27:44.000 And I argue with her for one second.

00:27:45.000 I'm immediately a misogynist.

00:27:47.000 I'm immediately a sexist because I opposed one point of her platform and now suddenly I'm anti-feminist. 1.00

00:27:53.000 But again, again, only to idiots. 1.00

00:27:55.000 Sure. 1.00

00:27:55.000 And only to people that aren't looking at things objectively and only to people that are coming into it with a bias in the first place. 1.00

00:28:02.000 But is it just idiots? 1.00

00:28:03.000 Because let's say you're that feminist, right? 1.00

00:28:04.000 Let's say you're that activist.

00:28:05.000 And let's say you're a really smart person and you've done a lot of research.

00:28:08.000 And you're a smart person, but you're so invested in your mission.

00:28:14.000 You're so invested in what you're fighting for that you forget just for one minute.

00:28:18.000 For one minute, you forget that there's another side to it, that there's other perspectives, other ways of looking at an issue.

00:28:25.000 Even just for one second, and you say something, and then a bunch of people retweet it, and then it looks bad for the guy. 0.62

00:28:31.000 In a way, that person who's the smart person, It technically influenced a lot of that negative shit from happening that then transpired.

00:28:41.000 And so in a lot of ways, it's like having a conversation with even the smart people who think that they're leading activism and they're leading the charge on things.

00:28:48.000 It's trying to educate that tier of people who can be spoken to reasonably to understand that you need to be more open-minded.

00:28:56.000 And the second that you push someone away, you're already...

00:29:00.000 You're already, like, abandoning your cause.

00:29:02.000 Your cause should be bringing more people in.

00:29:04.000 The second that you react to what someone else said and you push them away like that, you're the one doing the wrong thing.

00:29:12.000 Well, the problem with this conversation right now is that it's kind of vague.

00:29:14.000 And we're not talking about very specific statements that could be debated on their merit versus...

00:29:20.000 This idea of immediately using an ad hominem like you're a misogynist.

00:29:25.000 That is the best way to shut down any sort of debate.

00:29:28.000 Immediately call you a racist. 0.98

00:29:29.000 Immediately call you a sexist. 0.96

00:29:31.000 I mean, that's the feminism playbook. 1.00

00:29:35.000 The dumb feminism playbook. 1.00

00:29:38.000 Not the intelligent feminist that... 1.00

00:29:56.000 We're good to go.

00:30:01.000 Why should that be? 1.00

00:30:02.000 You're a fucking ridiculous human. 1.00

00:30:04.000 You eat everyone of the opposite gender. 1.00

00:30:08.000 So are you in a gender war? 1.00

00:30:10.000 Do you want to create equality for women or do you actually want to make up for all the men who rejected you or shit on you or dumped you or broke your heart or whatever? 0.99

00:30:22.000 Or whatever it is. 0.99

00:30:23.000 What is it?

00:30:24.000 Is it you have picked a team and you're fighting for that team?

00:30:28.000 Like the Dolphins versus the 49ers?

00:30:30.000 Because that's what it seems like.

00:30:31.000 And that is what it is.

00:30:33.000 It's Mac versus Windows. 0.99

00:30:35.000 I mean, it's fucking Android versus iPhones. 1.00

00:30:38.000 People pick fucking teams. 1.00

00:30:40.000 They get crazy. 1.00

00:30:41.000 It's Chicago versus New York. 1.00

00:30:43.000 Fuck LA! I'm from San Francisco! 1.00

00:30:45.000 It's the same goddamn thing. 1.00

00:30:47.000 And you decide, you know, I'm a feminist and men fucking suck! 1.00

00:30:51.000 Yeah! 1.00

00:30:52.000 Well, no, men don't suck. 1.00

00:30:53.000 Men are humans. 1.00

00:30:54.000 You know, women don't suck either. 1.00

00:30:56.000 They're humans. 1.00

00:30:57.000 Individuals in each gender suck. 1.00

00:30:59.000 And the idea that you're going to be on team vagina and it doesn't have any rotten players, you're fucking crazy. 1.00

00:31:04.000 You're crazy. 1.00

00:31:05.000 You're instantly crazy. 1.00

00:31:06.000 If any man tries to say that all men are amazing, that guy's a fucking idiot. 1.00

00:31:12.000 Right. 1.00

00:31:12.000 Like, are you looking around? 1.00

00:31:14.000 Are you talking to people?

00:31:16.000 Have you looked at history? 1.00

00:31:17.000 Have you taken a poll recently of the opinions of these fucking guys with dicks? 1.00

00:31:22.000 It's nonsense. 1.00

00:31:23.000 There's a lot of guys who are shitheads. 1.00

00:31:25.000 Shitheads. 1.00

00:31:26.000 Absolutely terrible. 1.00

00:31:26.000 Donald Sterling's one of them. 1.00

00:31:28.000 Shitheads. 1.00

00:31:29.000 Maybe. 1.00

00:31:30.000 I mean, I don't know.

00:31:30.000 I mean...

00:31:31.000 Based on what he said.

00:31:32.000 Especially in issues of equality.

00:31:35.000 Yes.

00:31:35.000 There's no side should be losing.

00:31:38.000 One side doesn't have to win and the other side having to lose.

00:31:40.000 Well, we shouldn't be on teams.

00:31:42.000 It should be the human race.

00:31:43.000 Right.

00:31:43.000 You know, I'm big fans of a lot of women.

00:31:47.000 I think a lot of women have achieved some fucking incredible, amazing things. 0.99

00:31:50.000 And I think there's a lot of men that I think are disgusting. 1.00

00:31:53.000 There's a lot of men I think are losers, and they're annoying, and they make excuses for their failures, and it's never about them, it's always about they got fucked over. 1.00

00:32:01.000 Like, oh, they're fucking brutal and boring and tiresome, and they are roadblocks. 1.00

00:32:07.000 They're roadblocks for conversations. 0.99

00:32:08.000 They are blood clots for progress.

00:32:11.000 I mean, there's a lot of people like that out there.

00:32:13.000 Both genders.

00:32:15.000 And I think that, you know, this whole idea of feminism... 1.00

00:32:18.000 And, you know, one of the things that happened that I thought was really hilarious...

00:32:22.000 I don't remember what it was about, but I retweeted something.

00:32:26.000 I retweet things that are provocative.

00:32:28.000 I don't agree with them.

00:32:29.000 I don't believe that a retweet should be an endorsement, I think.

00:32:32.000 But it triggers thought.

00:32:34.000 It makes people have a thought in their head for one moment of the day.

00:32:36.000 So this woman, who is a feminist, called me an MRA. So what the fuck is that? 0.99

00:32:42.000 So I had to Google it. 1.00

00:32:43.000 It's a men's rights activist.

00:32:45.000 So I'm like, hold on.

00:32:47.000 Are you really mocking me for supporting men's rights when you're a feminist? 0.98

00:32:53.000 You're mocking it.

00:32:54.000 You're openly mocking the idea of men's rights.

00:32:58.000 But meanwhile, you're supporting female rights. 0.73

00:33:02.000 This is preposterous. 1.00

00:33:04.000 You're a crazy person. 1.00

00:33:06.000 You're a crazy person lost in this constant struggle. 1.00

00:33:09.000 And then I went to her Twitter page and checked her out. 0.98

00:33:11.000 Of course, she's morbidly obese and she has pink hair. 0.99

00:33:13.000 So she's a mess, right? 0.99

00:33:16.000 But that's the real cause of all this strife and anxiety and anger.

00:33:21.000 It has virtually nothing to do with the issue itself.

00:33:24.000 These issues become green lights.

00:33:26.000 For some people, yeah.

00:33:27.000 For some people, yeah.

00:33:28.000 I completely agree.

00:33:29.000 In that particular case, it was certainly true, but I think that this feminism and gaming thing, like, boy, I don't... 1.00

00:33:38.000 I've looked at both sides of this.

00:33:40.000 It's convoluted on both ends.

00:33:42.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

00:33:42.000 The hate that these women who are involved in video game development have gotten from men is fucking disgusting. 1.00

00:33:49.000 Of course. 0.99

00:33:49.000 I mean, the harassment, and people say, oh, the death threats aren't even real. 0.99

00:33:53.000 Like, what the fuck ever? 0.96

00:33:55.000 They still get them. 0.98

00:33:56.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:33:58.000 And it's not just, I'm going to kill you. 0.99

00:34:00.000 It's so dark. 1.00

00:34:02.000 It's so toxic.

00:34:03.000 Yeah, I mean, there's way more violence being directed at them, whether it's real or not, but in print, than it is directed at the men that are supposedly the oppressors. 0.99

00:34:16.000 You're not seeing a bunch of women saying, we should get together and cut all these guys' dicks off and stuff them down their mouth and make them choke to death on it. 1.00

00:34:25.000 But this whole fucking battle, like at the root of it all, it should be a battle about... 1.00

00:34:32.000 Well, it should be... 0.98

00:34:33.000 Developing games should be about what is the best way to make a really quality game that people are going to enjoy?

00:34:40.000 And what is the best way that all these people can interact with each other?

00:34:44.000 It shouldn't be about like, well, we need 10 women because we have 10 men. 0.97

00:34:47.000 And the women should have an equal say because... 1.00

00:34:49.000 No, the men shouldn't even have an equal say.

00:34:52.000 Your ideas should stand on their own merit.

00:34:55.000 I hate the idea of quotas.

00:34:56.000 Across most issues, especially when you talk about police having quotas for the number of certain races they need to investigate.

00:35:02.000 That's wrong.

00:35:03.000 And at the same time, on the other side, with this issue, it's like, yeah, I hate the idea that you need to hire...

00:35:09.000 So many of these people just because, right?

00:35:11.000 Just to keep the balance equal. 0.96

00:35:13.000 It's a horseshit idea, and there's some real clear areas in life where you know it's a horseshit idea. 0.54

00:35:20.000 The NFL's one of them, okay? 0.99

00:35:23.000 If there was a quota in the NFL where the NFL needed a certain amount of women to play as linebackers, do you know how fucked up football would be if you needed to have, you know, how many linebackers are there? 1.00

00:35:35.000 Three. 0.97

00:35:36.000 If you needed to have at least one woman. 0.99

00:35:39.000 Do you know how fucking horrific and preposterous those games would be? 1.00

00:35:44.000 Everybody would just shoot straight for the chick and run her over. 1.00

00:35:48.000 And then you'd be accused of sexism because you keep giving that girl concussions. 1.00

00:35:52.000 But she's not qualified for that position. 1.00

00:35:55.000 That position belongs to some square-jawed fuckhead from Indiana who's been taking steroids since he was a baby. 1.00

00:36:02.000 That's the guy you want for that job. 1.00

00:36:05.000 You want some 500 pound fucking gorilla that's gonna stop people from crossing that space. 0.99

00:36:09.000 That's right. 1.00

00:36:10.000 That's it.

00:36:11.000 And that's the clearest example of a quota.

00:36:15.000 And the same could be said creatively.

00:36:18.000 Like the idea that you want a certain amount of women or a certain amount of men. 0.63

00:36:23.000 Nonsense.

00:36:24.000 Nonsense.

00:36:25.000 What is the content?

00:36:26.000 What is the quality of your ideas?

00:36:28.000 How much time do you spend focusing on these ideas?

00:36:31.000 Which, by the way, has nothing to do—it's not like what you're saying is that women aren't as capable of doing that job, but what you're saying is there may not—it's not about that.

00:36:40.000 It's about who's in front of you at the time and who do you want to put in that position.

00:36:43.000 And what are you going to care about at the end of the day?

00:36:47.000 You're going to care about the contribution that's being made.

00:36:49.000 There's this amazing interview that Ronda Rousey did recently in Australia, because she's supposed to be fighting...

00:36:54.000 Well, she is fighting in a couple weeks in Australia, and it's the biggest UFC event ever.

00:36:59.000 Headlined by a woman, okay? 0.98

00:37:01.000 70,000 seats in Australia.

00:37:04.000 And this woman does this interview, or questions her at this media scrum, and she says...

00:37:12.000 How do you feel?

00:37:14.000 We're having an issue here in Australia with equality of pay for women's football. 0.70

00:37:20.000 How do you feel about equality of pay in the UFC? It's such a stupid question because she makes more money than anyone in the sport. 1.00

00:37:30.000 She's the number one earner in the UFC. I get paid the most out of anyone in the UFC and I'm a woman. 1.00

00:37:38.000 And I don't get paid that much because Dana and Lorenzo, the owners of the company, wanted to do something nice for the ladies. 1.00

00:37:44.000 She's like, I get paid the most because I put the most asses in the seats and more people want to come to see me because I'm the best.

00:37:51.000 And when she said that, everybody cheered and they were booing when this lady had this question. 1.00

00:37:55.000 But her question's preposterous. 1.00

00:37:57.000 It's a ridiculous question because you're talking to the number one earner in the sport who happens to have a vagina. 1.00

00:38:03.000 She got there through the quality of her work and the amount of eyes that she attracts because of that work. 0.99

00:38:11.000 It's that simple.

00:38:12.000 It's that simple. 0.98

00:38:13.000 What she's been able to do, the outlier status that she has, being this beautiful woman who kicks people's asses, being unusual, it generates a significant amount of money. 1.00

00:38:22.000 So much money that she makes more money than anybody else. 0.98

00:38:25.000 So this idea that, like, you're supposed to pay women the same amount that you pay men, well, what if only half the people go to see the women?

00:38:34.000 Do you still have to pay them the same amount?

00:38:36.000 Well, that's a shitty business model, because then you're not going to make as much money.

00:38:40.000 Yeah, that's a tough way to, I mean, it's a tough way to look at it. 0.55

00:38:43.000 It's a tough concept to unpack for a lot of people, I feel like.

00:38:47.000 I don't know why.

00:38:48.000 I mean, they think that, you know, it's supposed to be one for you and one for me.

00:38:52.000 No, it's a competition.

00:38:54.000 Right.

00:38:54.000 When you get out into the marketplace.

00:38:57.000 I think the example that resonated best with me was the Jennifer Lawrence thing.

00:39:02.000 Did you read about that?

00:39:04.000 She wrote a big open letter about how she didn't get paid as much as Bradley Cooper did during the American Hustle movie.

00:39:11.000 Right.

00:39:12.000 And for a whole bunch of reasons.

00:39:14.000 And okay, that's fair.

00:39:16.000 I want to hear the argument, right?

00:39:19.000 But the argument that I heard was incomplete, right?

00:39:22.000 How about the number of lines both of them spoke in the movie, right?

00:39:25.000 How about the number of minutes How about the number of days she even went to work compared to the number of days he went to work to be on set and to do filming, right?

00:39:34.000 And so when you look at that quantitatively, you go, well, why would you be paid the same amount as him for a fourth or fifth lead role in that movie, right?

00:39:43.000 Well, you look at it quantitatively, she actually got paid more per minute than he did.

00:39:47.000 Sure, there you go.

00:39:48.000 And then what you don't hear her talking about, of course, and I don't like this argument either, because again, there's no reason that the other side needs to lose for one side to win.

00:39:57.000 It shouldn't be about that.

00:39:58.000 But of course, then you look at the new movie that she's in, where she's getting paid more than any of her male co-stars, and you don't talk about that, right? 0.74

00:40:05.000 And so it's almost like this, we get angry and outraged about things when they're convenient to be angry and outraged about, and we don't call it out on the bullshit when it's the double standard, when it's on the other side of that curve. 0.99

00:40:17.000 Well, I give her a pass because the whole world saw her asshole and it wasn't her idea. 1.00

00:40:22.000 I mean, I think she's probably emotionally wrecked because of that. 0.99

00:40:26.000 And there's also probably a lot of people in her ear telling her she got fucked over and agents and managers and all that jazz. 0.95

00:40:32.000 A lot of people say, hey, you can go out and you can talk about this. 0.95

00:40:34.000 This is the right time to talk about this, right?

00:40:36.000 Yes.

00:40:36.000 And again, that's smart people who have figured out how to manipulate the masses' emotions into getting profit, into getting eyeballs, into getting ratings, into getting good things for them.

00:40:46.000 And I'm always against that.

00:40:48.000 Well, the argument is interesting.

00:40:49.000 You know, the argument is very interesting.

00:40:51.000 Like, who should be getting paid what?

00:40:53.000 And why should you be getting paid more?

00:40:56.000 The reality is you're gonna have a really hard time getting sympathetic voices or sympathetic ears, rather, when you're making millions of dollars.

00:41:04.000 Like, oh, I'm only making two million while he's making four or whatever the fuck it was. 0.91

00:41:09.000 Boy, cry me a river. 0.96

00:41:11.000 You're making millions of dollars and you want people to feel bad? 1.00

00:41:14.000 Like, that's kind of ridiculous.

00:41:15.000 And if you look at it in terms of the number of, like you said, the number of hours that she was on screen, but... 0.85

00:41:21.000 Who knows?

00:41:21.000 Who knows why she said that?

00:41:23.000 Who knows? 0.98

00:41:23.000 I mean, she got shit on by this reporter once because she was at some award show and she was drunk and he wrote something about it. 0.98

00:41:32.000 And she had some response to why she did it. 1.00

00:41:37.000 Fuck this guy. 1.00

00:41:38.000 You're really worried about me because I got drunk at an award show? 1.00

00:41:41.000 Fuck off. 1.00

00:41:42.000 And she's right. 1.00

00:41:43.000 100% right there.

00:41:45.000 And would she have gotten that grief if she was a man?

00:41:48.000 I say no. 0.99

00:41:49.000 If, you know, fucking fill in the blank, if Brad Pitt had a couple of drinks at some award show and he was liquored up and laughing and being ridiculous, he could say, hey, I was just fucked up at that award show and I had a good time, but whoops, what did I say? 0.99

00:42:04.000 And no one's going to say, boy, I'm really worried about Brad Pitt. 0.98

00:42:06.000 So no one's saying that inequality doesn't exist.

00:42:09.000 It definitely exists.

00:42:10.000 And as long as we're having pragmatic conversations about it and we're staring it in the face, because it is an ugly issue, it's a scary issue, but as long as we're not taking teams and rattling pom-poms, as long as we're not just cutting off the lines and making boundaries,

00:42:25.000 as long as we're constantly having that conversation and we're not looking for someone else to get hurt in the process...

00:42:30.000 Of having that conversation, then as long as we're still talking about it, we're going to be making progress.

00:42:34.000 I think what you just said is so important.

00:42:36.000 As long as you don't want other people to get hurt.

00:42:40.000 Yeah.

00:42:40.000 I think that's a really important point of it.

00:42:42.000 That you don't want to hurt the other people. 0.98

00:42:45.000 You don't want to hurt Team Dick in order to prop up Team Vagina. 1.00

00:42:49.000 Yeah, don't make me scared to participate. 0.96

00:42:52.000 Exactly.

00:42:53.000 After that whole Donald Sterling thing with me, I absolutely was scared for months.

00:42:58.000 Maybe I shouldn't tweet anymore. 0.87

00:43:00.000 But, of course, I came back to my senses and I thought, that's ridiculous.

00:43:03.000 I shouldn't feel that way. 0.99

00:43:04.000 I shouldn't be pushing away from the table because some, you know, bad shit happened to me. 0.83

00:43:09.000 That made me want to talk about things even more. 0.94

00:43:12.000 I mean, and wanting to make people learn that that's not the way you get your way or that's not the way that you make a point is by bringing someone else down.

00:43:21.000 Yeah.

00:43:21.000 Well, I think it's also...

00:43:25.000 Companies get scared and they get scared of backlash and boycotts and they make executive decisions and those executive decisions are oftentimes only made in those in that context in a large company Form like that's the only time like if there's a couple of people like you're saying you don't see it Yeah,

00:43:42.000 I don't see it, but I'm not going to see it.

00:43:45.000 I don't care.

00:43:46.000 If I said something like that and people got upset, I'd go, whatever.

00:43:50.000 I'd say something else.

00:43:52.000 I'd say something even more outrageous.

00:43:53.000 I'll keep it going.

00:43:54.000 I don't care, because if I get fired by the UFC, I'd be like, oh well, hey guys, loved working for you.

00:44:01.000 Still support the company.

00:44:02.000 Great time.

00:44:02.000 But I'm doing five other things at the same time.

00:44:04.000 And one of the reasons why I do that, it's calculated.

00:44:07.000 I don't like...

00:44:09.000 Only having one job because I don't like worrying about losing that job. 0.96

00:44:13.000 I don't want to worry about shit, especially if I have to worry about something that would impede on my ability to speak freely. 0.97

00:44:19.000 I'm not interested. 0.97

00:44:21.000 You know, that's why I'm not interested in network gigs.

00:44:23.000 Those are not fun. 0.99

00:44:25.000 Because you have to fucking watch everything you say. 0.99

00:44:27.000 They want to take over your social media account. 0.99

00:44:29.000 That's what happens when you get on a television show.

00:44:31.000 They want to be able to tweet for you.

00:44:33.000 I was talking to Arsenio Hall recently.

00:44:36.000 He had that Arsenio Hall show that came back.

00:44:40.000 He can't get it onto his Facebook.

00:44:42.000 He couldn't use his Twitter.

00:44:44.000 They owned it.

00:44:45.000 A lot of YouTubers are going through the same stuff right now, too.

00:44:47.000 A lot of YouTubers who are signing TV deals are coming back and going, this is not what I wanted for my brand and my audience, right?

00:44:53.000 Exactly.

00:44:53.000 They're stealing your people, and then they tweet for you.

00:44:57.000 And they want you to tweet promotional things, and they want you to promote your show and live tweet your show.

00:45:03.000 And, well, we'll do it for you, so they're going to do it in your voice.

00:45:07.000 This was amazing when I did this, but it's not even you!

00:45:10.000 You've got someone else saying that!

00:45:12.000 And I'm very adamant about it.

00:45:14.000 There's just automatic tweets that'll happen on my page, like if something gets uploaded to YouTube.

00:45:19.000 But if you see an opinion, and if there's an opinion or a joke, even if the joke fails, that's coming from my little fat fingers.

00:45:27.000 That's it.

00:45:29.000 That's the only way I would do it.

00:45:31.000 That's what I love when I tweeted you, too.

00:45:32.000 I asked about your producer for the show, and you're like, dude, it's me.

00:45:37.000 You're talking to me right now.

00:45:38.000 You're not talking to some other person.

00:45:40.000 Well, it's Jamie.

00:45:41.000 Jamie's over there.

00:45:42.000 You can talk to him.

00:45:44.000 But I just think we live in a strange time, and it's very important during this strange time to keep your sanity and to keep your ability to express yourself.

00:45:57.000 Because, like you said, as soon as you're afraid of speaking your opinion, as soon as you think about typing something that you really believe in, and you say, you know what?

00:46:06.000 It's not worth the risk.

00:46:07.000 I would like to keep these ones and zeros showing up in my bank account.

00:46:11.000 Let me just back off that.

00:46:13.000 Who are you then?

00:46:14.000 Because you're not who you are.

00:46:16.000 You're a slave to the system, the cliched phrase.

00:46:18.000 At that point, you're a slave to the system.

00:46:20.000 And look down three or four generations down the line of that, and what does it look like?

00:46:24.000 It's not a place that I want to live. 1.00

00:46:26.000 Fuck that. 1.00

00:46:26.000 We're all just these like... 1.00

00:46:28.000 Diluted down versions of each other that are identical and the same and don't have opinions and voices like that people don't want to hear that either They want to hear those tweets or read those tweets when you write something like that and they go yeah that is fucked up this chick just Recorded him and then not just recorded him but broadcast it to the world sold it to whatever outlets or somebody did well Everyone ended up saying what I said I was ahead of the I was way ahead of the curve I said it like like the day after it all happened right and I was the first I was the first one through the breach and I got fucking slammed for it right and Everybody ended up ultimately 0.72

00:46:58.000 having that opinion about it.

00:47:00.000 And yeah, at the end of the day, then she got sued by his now ex-wife because she was getting showered with gifts that were from her estate and all sorts of...

00:47:10.000 And it's like, yeah, you've got to realize that...

00:47:12.000 And all this is hearsay, by the way.

00:47:14.000 I don't know anything about the facts.

00:47:17.000 Allegedly is a good word to use. 1.00

00:47:18.000 Allegedly.

00:47:18.000 You've got to imagine that she...

00:47:20.000 You've got to imagine that she was like... 0.63

00:47:25.000 Was trying to get some money instead of releasing those tapes. 1.00

00:47:29.000 And then Sterling was like, fuck off. 1.00

00:47:30.000 Do whatever you want with the tapes, right? 1.00

00:47:32.000 I can totally see how that happened.

00:47:33.000 Maybe that's not how it went down, but I could totally see that playing out like some episode of The Entourage, right?

00:47:40.000 Where you just don't know how...

00:47:42.000 The motives were not pure.

00:47:44.000 Yeah, an episode of The Entourage, but funny.

00:47:46.000 It's different.

00:47:47.000 I think what's going on with her and him is she's getting... 0.83

00:47:53.000 Look, it's prostitution. 1.00

00:47:55.000 It's really clear and simple. 0.99

00:47:57.000 I mean, she's not fucking that guy. 0.97

00:47:59.000 She thinks she's hot. 1.00

00:48:00.000 If you're having sex with someone, you should probably be attracted to them or be getting something out of it. 0.68

00:48:05.000 But we love that.

00:48:06.000 We love the way the real life has become an episode of any reality TV show that you've seen.

00:48:11.000 And for the same reason that reality TV is so successful, it's why Donald Trump's campaign is so successful right now.

00:48:17.000 Because it's a living, breathing incarnation of reality TV. You're absolutely right.

00:48:22.000 100%.

00:48:22.000 And we love it, and we support it, and we vote, and we say yes, just like we would vote for reality TV. Well, it makes it exciting.

00:48:27.000 All of a sudden, instead of someone saying some canned shit that you know a team of speechwriters were, he's like, I want to put up a wall to Mexico and put my name on it! 0.99

00:48:36.000 I'm like, what? 1.00

00:48:37.000 What the fuck? 1.00

00:48:38.000 It becomes exciting. 1.00

00:48:39.000 We didn't take away his NBA team, did we?

00:48:41.000 No.

00:48:41.000 Does he have one?

00:48:42.000 We would if we did.

00:48:44.000 But it's a year away.

00:48:46.000 So right now it's just fun. 0.98

00:48:47.000 It's just fun silliness until it gets down to whatever fucking corporate criminals they're actually going to put into the position of actually running the country. 0.97

00:48:55.000 So right now it is reality TV. It's what it is. 0.98

00:48:58.000 It's the most interesting game in town right now. 0.99

00:49:01.000 It's a sport that everybody has to watch for whatever fucking reason. 0.98

00:49:05.000 You at least have to know the score. 0.99

00:49:06.000 Yeah.

00:49:07.000 I mean, that also ultimately comes back to the mainstream media.

00:49:09.000 They're the ones who are technically leading the charge.

00:49:12.000 They're the ones who everybody is kind of queuing off of and everybody's being influenced by.

00:49:17.000 And that's also something that I'm constantly going to be at odds with.

00:49:20.000 I'm always going to fight that.

00:49:21.000 Yeah, and mainstream media itself is just a money-making machine.

00:49:26.000 This idea that mainstream media news is actually, their sole purpose is to disseminate information, to educate the masses, and to keep you informed about all the happenings in the world. 0.99

00:49:39.000 Bullshit. 0.99

00:49:39.000 It used to be that way. 0.99

00:49:40.000 Oh, it used to be that way.

00:49:41.000 It used to be.

00:49:42.000 When it was broadcast, when it was a utility.

00:49:44.000 It was essentially a utility.

00:49:45.000 Well, it still exists in the form of online journalism.

00:49:48.000 I mean, what's going on now, today, when you see something like The Guardian printing that Ed Snowden, all the revelations, when no one else wanted to touch it, I mean, he went to other people first, and they said no.

00:50:01.000 So that's real journalism.

00:50:03.000 When someone prints something incredibly controversial, but something they think is important, that's going to piss off the entire country.

00:50:10.000 WikiLeaks.

00:50:11.000 That's real journalism.

00:50:12.000 But it happens.

00:50:14.000 It happens so infrequently because they were so scared.

00:50:16.000 They were terrified.

00:50:17.000 They should be. 1.00

00:50:17.000 Look, Edward Snowden's living in Russia and a fucking homeboy, the pale ghost, what the fuck's his name? 1.00

00:50:24.000 Julian Assange. 1.00

00:50:24.000 Julian Assange is holed up in a fucking embassy. 1.00

00:50:27.000 He can't leave. 1.00

00:50:29.000 He's stuck in a house.

00:50:30.000 It's all madness.

00:50:31.000 It's all madness.

00:50:32.000 I mean, those two people are arguably two of the most important figures of the 21st century when it comes to establishing what is the current state of the government when it comes to surveillance, when it comes to the spreading of actual information about what's going on in the world.

00:50:47.000 Where are we at?

00:50:48.000 Well, those two guys are responsible for two gigantic leaps of revelation.

00:50:53.000 Where everybody's had to take a step back, especially Edward Snowden.

00:50:56.000 Everybody's had to take a step back. 0.98

00:50:58.000 What the fuck is happening when I send a text message? 0.99

00:51:00.000 Am I just texting Jamie and calling him a big queen? 0.99

00:51:04.000 Or am I going to get in trouble with people?

00:51:06.000 What's going to happen?

00:51:07.000 Is someone going to read some of my joke text to one of my friends, take it out of context, and get me fired for that?

00:51:14.000 But that's the world we live in today.

00:51:16.000 We live in a very weird time. 0.99

00:51:18.000 And in these weird times, The idea that CNN is gonna kick you the fucking real deal. 0.91

00:51:24.000 They're gonna drop the real knowledge on Fox News. 0.99

00:51:27.000 They don't give a fuck about you. 0.97

00:51:29.000 They're just trying to sell commercials. 0.98

00:51:30.000 It's all they're doing.

00:51:31.000 And every time that you click on one of those clickbaity articles, every time you click on one of those sensational tweets and hit their page, you're part of the problem.

00:51:38.000 You're the one positively reinforcing that business model.

00:51:41.000 In a way, I think, honestly, that it's beautiful that they operate in this way because they're sealing their own demise.

00:51:48.000 I really do believe that.

00:51:50.000 I believe Fox News and CNN and all these people are ultimately there on a path they can't get off, and that path...

00:51:57.000 Leads to being irrelevant.

00:51:59.000 It's gonna happen.

00:52:00.000 How long is that burn though, man?

00:52:02.000 Because I know right when social media came out, when Twitter was invented and when Facebook was invented, people were saying the same thing.

00:52:07.000 They're like, is this the end of media?

00:52:09.000 How long has it been around?

00:52:11.000 It's only been around a couple of years.

00:52:13.000 In a couple of years, we've seen some massive changes.

00:52:16.000 I mean, really incredible, and some bad, like what happened to you.

00:52:20.000 But I think that what that is, is this newfound ability.

00:52:24.000 This newfound ability that people didn't earn, and they just have, and they're irresponsible with it.

00:52:30.000 They don't know what they're doing with it.

00:52:31.000 They also don't understand what communication...

00:52:35.000 What it really means, and they're not taking into account how other people are going to perceive them.

00:52:42.000 Here's a perfect example.

00:52:44.000 Justine Sacco.

00:52:45.000 You know her story.

00:52:46.000 Yes.

00:52:46.000 Everyone knows her story.

00:52:47.000 If you don't know it, she was a publicist. 0.99

00:52:50.000 She was about to get on a plane to go to Africa, and she goes, I'm going to Africa. 0.58

00:52:55.000 Hope I don't get AIDS. Just kidding.

00:52:57.000 I'm white.

00:52:58.000 LOL. LOL. And she went to sleep, woke up in Africa, fired, and the whole world hated her. 0.91

00:53:06.000 And she deleted her Twitter account, and she still hasn't recovered.

00:53:10.000 I mean, does she work for some game company now that just got in trouble?

00:53:14.000 What is it?

00:53:15.000 Say it again?

00:53:16.000 FanDuel.

00:53:16.000 She works for FanDuel?

00:53:17.000 FanDuel.

00:53:18.000 And she got in trouble recently.

00:53:19.000 What happened?

00:53:20.000 She didn't get in trouble.

00:53:21.000 Her name just came out because they've got in trouble.

00:53:23.000 And she's speaking for them as their publicist.

00:53:26.000 Oh, but how hilarious is that?

00:53:28.000 You know?

00:53:29.000 Well, yeah.

00:53:30.000 They're amidst...

00:53:31.000 It's kind of like me whenever I come to another company, right?

00:53:33.000 It's like I have to, of course, answer that question and people are talking about, oh, XYZ company hired Josh Olin again, right?

00:53:39.000 Yeah, but what you said was nothing like what she said. 0.97

00:53:42.000 But what she said, she had like fucking 10 followers. 0.97

00:53:45.000 She thought she was being funny. 0.99

00:53:46.000 She's probably on Xanax or something like that. 0.98

00:53:49.000 At the end of that, it's a shitty joke. 0.97

00:53:51.000 Whatever. 0.98

00:53:51.000 It's a shitty joke. 0.98

00:53:53.000 We've all had shitty jokes. 0.98

00:53:53.000 You've had plenty in your career. 0.98

00:53:55.000 A fuckload. 0.99

00:53:56.000 I'm not a comedian and I have shitty jokes at the time. 0.99

00:53:59.000 And Twitter, you know... 0.59

00:54:02.000 It doesn't matter if you don't agree with what she said.

00:54:05.000 You shouldn't want what happened to her to have happened to her.

00:54:08.000 Yes, exactly.

00:54:09.000 And people wanted it.

00:54:10.000 They wanted it so badly.

00:54:11.000 They were calling for it.

00:54:12.000 They were putting her head on a pike and demanding it. 1.00

00:54:15.000 There was another girl, I can't remember her name, but she took a picture in front of...

00:54:19.000 She was at the Arlington Cemetery or something.

00:54:21.000 She was in front of a sign that said, like, no shouting or quiet, please.

00:54:28.000 Yeah.

00:54:29.000 Quiet, please be respectful.

00:54:31.000 Some sign like that.

00:54:32.000 And so she took a picture in front of her where she was pretending like she was yelling. 0.99

00:54:36.000 And, you know, just because that's what she thought was funny.

00:54:40.000 Now, she put it online and it went crazy because people were talking about how she was disrespecting our troops and our soldiers and the lost ones, right? 0.99

00:54:45.000 And then, of course, she goes out and talks about it.

00:54:47.000 She goes, if you look at my page...

00:54:50.000 That's just what I do whenever I see a sign.

00:54:51.000 When I see a sign that says no smoking, I put up a fake cigarette in my lips.

00:54:54.000 When I see a sign that says no soliciting, I pretend like I'm soliciting.

00:54:57.000 It's her shtick is she just does the opposite thing that signs say. 0.99

00:55:01.000 And when you understand that context, you realize she's just being funny.

00:55:05.000 Why would she lose her job over that?

00:55:07.000 Did she lose her job?

00:55:09.000 I don't know, actually.

00:55:10.000 I don't know enough about it. 0.99

00:55:11.000 I shouldn't be talking out of my ass right now. 0.99

00:55:12.000 But whatever. 1.00

00:55:13.000 There was outrage.

00:55:15.000 It was a big thing.

00:55:15.000 There was a big thing.

00:55:16.000 And that's why I had a comment.

00:55:17.000 And of course I defended her.

00:55:18.000 And she was doing media and whatnot.

00:55:20.000 Of course.

00:55:21.000 It's insane.

00:55:22.000 But again, it's just the green light.

00:55:25.000 It's all it is. 0.99

00:55:25.000 It's just cunts hitting the gas. 0.99

00:55:27.000 And they just say, I found one! 1.00

00:55:28.000 We found a target!

00:55:30.000 Go shoot! 0.96

00:55:31.000 Oh! 1.00

00:55:32.000 Fire her! 1.00

00:55:33.000 Fire her! 1.00

00:55:33.000 That's what it is. 1.00

00:55:34.000 When the cease of the lion thing happened, there was a New York Times article that a man from Zimbabwe wrote, and it's, uh, in Zimbabwe we do not cry for lions.

00:55:43.000 And he talked about lions that have killed his family.

00:55:46.000 The guy lost his leg to a poisonous snake bite, the guy who wrote the article.

00:55:51.000 I mean, he's like, his take was like, look, Africa, the wild of Africa is not your friend. 0.99

00:55:56.000 It's fucking terrifying. 0.98

00:55:58.000 It's beautiful to behold, but it is absolutely terrifying. 0.99

00:56:02.000 So this idea that you call this lion Cecil and that we're all crying because we lost Cecil. 1.00

00:56:07.000 Fuck Cecil! 1.00

00:56:08.000 You know? 1.00

00:56:08.000 I mean, that's what he's saying. 1.00

00:56:09.000 All I did, I mean, all I did was retweet that article. 0.98

00:56:14.000 And I got so many fucking people that were angry at me. 0.96

00:56:19.000 What was the article? 0.98

00:56:20.000 What was the angle of the article?

00:56:21.000 And the article was, In Zimbabwe, We Do Not Cry for Lions.

00:56:24.000 That was the title of the article.

00:56:26.000 It was written by...

00:56:28.000 I don't know if he was a student.

00:56:30.000 I forget.

00:56:31.000 But he's living in America, but he's from Zimbabwe.

00:56:33.000 Right.

00:56:34.000 Well, we don't understand.

00:56:35.000 We have no perspective outside of our bubble that we live in.

00:56:38.000 Exactly.

00:56:39.000 Well, also, this guy is just giving his point of view as a person who's from Zimbabwe.

00:56:47.000 I mean, this is his...

00:56:49.000 All I did was retweet the article. 0.99

00:56:51.000 So many fucking people were angry at me. 0.99

00:56:53.000 They were so mad at me. 1.00

00:56:54.000 I can't believe you're supporting this. 1.00

00:56:56.000 You know, what that guy did was he's a piece of shit and a murderer. 1.00

00:57:00.000 As if you just went and stepped on a kitten. 1.00

00:57:02.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:57:02.000 I'm hitting kittens with baseball bats over the fence into your yard.

00:57:05.000 Like, it's...

00:57:07.000 It's just a green light.

00:57:09.000 You're right.

00:57:10.000 It's this endorphin drip that we seek.

00:57:12.000 And we get it through this feedback loop of...

00:57:15.000 Well, we get it through anger.

00:57:16.000 Anger releases it.

00:57:17.000 And we get it through the feedback loop of seeing someone else paying for something that you didn't agree with or that you didn't like.

00:57:24.000 And I'm sometimes too much of an optimist.

00:57:28.000 But I'm also...

00:57:30.000 I try to look at things...

00:57:33.000 Objectively outside the context of culture and what we expect of today and I look to the future and what I'm looking at is there's a trend and the trend is from the moment that human beings invented language To the time they started writing things down to the time they started distributing that written word to the time They figured out how to broadcast and how to get ideas out there through television and radio to the internet What I'm seeing is The trend is

00:58:03.000 a shorter distance between human beings.

00:58:06.000 The trend is connectivity.

00:58:09.000 And I think, ultimately, we're dealing with this adolescent period in this connectivity where all these people that have never thought about the idea of projecting these words...

00:58:20.000 Like, if you get a guy like Brian Williams on TV and he's bullshitting about going to Iraq, that's a guy that's responsible for his words, okay?

00:58:27.000 That's a guy that's a professional broadcaster.

00:58:29.000 He should know what he's saying when he gets on television.

00:58:32.000 He sees that red light.

00:58:35.000 He's getting paid to do that.

00:58:36.000 He's getting paid. 1.00

00:58:37.000 He's prepared for it his entire fucking life. 0.99

00:58:41.000 That's a guy who understands the repercussions of his words. 0.99

00:58:46.000 The average person has the same ability to reach human beings as Brian Williams.

00:58:52.000 When Justine Sacco wrote that tweet, she probably reached as much people, or as many people, as Brian Williams did when he lied about getting shot down in Iraq.

00:59:02.000 It's probably incredibly similar.

00:59:06.000 And that's a new thing.

00:59:07.000 That is a really, really, really new thing.

00:59:10.000 I think as it gets closer and closer, it's going to move from the written word, it's going to move from type and video, and it's going to be some sort of a brain-to-brain interface. 0.98

00:59:20.000 And when that starts happening, and I don't think we're far away from that, I think we're a decade or two at most, when that starts happening, this is all going to be bullshit. 0.97

00:59:28.000 I'm going to be able to read your thoughts. 0.98

00:59:30.000 I'm not going to wonder whether or not You know, you're reacting because you were beaten as a child or your boyfriend dumped you.

00:59:42.000 I'm going to know.

00:59:43.000 And we're gonna know each other in a really weird, intense, intimate way that I don't think we could possibly understand today.

00:59:49.000 No. 0.96

00:59:49.000 If you talk to people that live during the fucking... 0.96

00:59:53.000 during the Inquisition, and you told them about Twitter. 0.98

00:59:58.000 Walk up to them and hand them this device and see what they do. 0.97

01:00:00.000 So they'd shoot you for witchcraft.

01:00:02.000 Well, they didn't have guns. 1.00

01:00:03.000 They'd fucking stab you, or they'd fucking... 1.00

01:00:05.000 whatever. 1.00

01:00:06.000 But...

01:00:07.000 We're gonna look at something like that something in the future and probably the fairly fairly I want to say no more than 20 years.

01:00:18.000 I think it's in our lifetimes.

01:00:19.000 That might be ambitious.

01:00:21.000 Well, maybe not.

01:00:22.000 When I look at people, one of my idols is like Elon Musk.

01:00:25.000 When I look at a truly visionary person who's also a really smart dude, just a genius on every level.

01:00:31.000 When a guy like him is talking about AI scaring him.

01:00:35.000 Yes.

01:00:35.000 And when he's going, it scares me.

01:00:37.000 I'm going, I should probably be scared too.

01:00:40.000 Yes.

01:00:41.000 Because, and when you think about, yeah, with the way that we're already right now, like, fusing, you know, computer chips in with brains and helping to restore language centers.

01:00:49.000 Well, what happens when that AI computer chip can directly interface with your brain and learn about it and learn about its circuitry and understand it in a way that, and at a rate that we, it took us this many years to learn, and it's going to learn it overnight and in a second.

01:01:02.000 Yeah, that's a scary idea.

01:01:04.000 I did a podcast with Sam Harris recently, and the last half hour of the podcast was all about AI. Yeah.

01:01:32.000 It's a terrifying thought.

01:01:34.000 Chilling that it came from the mouth of such a smart dude, too.

01:01:37.000 But it's going to happen!

01:01:38.000 I think we are...

01:01:40.000 I mean, my way of describing it, and I've been talking about this for a long time, that I think we are some sort of an electronic cocoon.

01:01:47.000 We are the electronic caterpillar that's going to become the butterfly.

01:01:50.000 We are developing into something.

01:01:54.000 Like, when a... 0.97

01:01:55.000 When a caterpillar creates a cocoon, it doesn't know what the fuck it's doing. 0.96

01:01:58.000 It's not reading manuals. 0.98

01:01:59.000 It didn't go to school for it.

01:02:01.000 It's not like meeting together with other caterpillar support groups and, are you prepared for your transition into butterfly-dom? 0.99

01:02:07.000 No, they just fucking do it. 0.98

01:02:08.000 They don't even know why they're doing it. 0.99

01:02:09.000 This is the next thing that I do now, is I make this cocoon.

01:02:11.000 I think that's what we're doing.

01:02:13.000 I think that's what we're doing.

01:02:13.000 Our obsession with technology, our obsession with innovation, I really firmly believe that we are fueling, even through our obsession with materialism.

01:02:22.000 Because materialism, ultimately, you always want the biggest, best thing.

01:02:26.000 The newest, latest, greatest.

01:02:28.000 And the companies have to keep up.

01:02:30.000 So they're all competing.

01:02:31.000 You know, Nexus has to come up with a better phone because the iPhone 6S is out. 0.99

01:02:35.000 And then, you know, fucking boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. 0.97

01:02:38.000 And it keeps going faster and faster and faster until... 1.00

01:02:41.000 You're getting your dick sucked by a robot, you know? 1.00

01:02:44.000 And then that robot is deciding that it wants to take over your house and turn it into a nuclear fusion center. 1.00

01:02:49.000 I mean, who the fuck knows what a hundred years from now looks like or a thousand years from now looks like? 0.87

01:02:54.000 But I think that what we're seeing with all this electronic outrage and all these people communicating, we're seeing these initial blips of this newfound ability to communicate. 0.96

01:03:05.000 This newfound awakening.

01:03:07.000 It's an important step in the process of what you're saying.

01:03:11.000 It's inevitable.

01:03:12.000 But I think that I'm very optimistic about where that's going to lead.

01:03:17.000 I think the beauty is, and if we all realize that we're all just human beings and that competition is actually good because the real competition is with yourself to do your best and you are inspired by other people who are doing their best, you compare yourself to them and instead of shitting on them,

01:03:35.000 instead of trying to put them down, You look at them and get inspired, or maybe not.

01:03:41.000 Maybe you say, I appreciate the amount of effort that person's done, but I don't want to work 12 hours a day.

01:03:47.000 I don't think that's smart.

01:03:48.000 I would rather surf.

01:03:49.000 I think surfing's the way to go.

01:03:51.000 I mean, I think I have 80 years on this planet if I'm lucky.

01:03:54.000 I want to enjoy them in as richly fulfilling a way as possible.

01:04:00.000 And you should be able to do that.

01:04:01.000 Yes.

01:04:02.000 Are you familiar with a guy named Jacques Fresco?

01:04:05.000 Yes.

01:04:06.000 Yeah, he does the Venus Project and all about resource-based economies.

01:04:09.000 Right.

01:04:10.000 I mean, he simply, you know, he talks about it like we have enough resources on the planet to sustain every human being that we will have for a long time.

01:04:19.000 Equally, fairly, and they could do whatever they want as long as we got rid of the dollar.

01:04:23.000 As long as we got rid of the need to earn a dollar and to amass these dollars and to spend them and to enhance your life through them, if you take an inventory management system that Walmart has or Amazon has and scale it up to a global level and you inventory every blade of grass, every tree,

01:04:39.000 every piece of wood, every raw material that we have, and then you create a system for distributing that equally and freely so that anybody can have anything at any time that they want, that's a fucking great utopia.

01:04:51.000 The problem with that is it removes incentive.

01:04:54.000 There's a reason why people work hard.

01:04:56.000 One of the reasons why people work hard is because they want to get ahead.

01:04:59.000 That's the idea, right?

01:05:00.000 You want to have a nice home.

01:05:01.000 You want to create a book.

01:05:03.000 You want to put together a project that ultimately...

01:05:09.000 Reaches a lot of people like when you're creating a game.

01:05:11.000 How many people do you think would make that game if there was no money involved in it?

01:05:15.000 That's our incentive now, but maybe there would be a different incentive surface because you already see that in current day capitalism.

01:05:22.000 You see like a teacher.

01:05:23.000 A teacher isn't doing what she does for the money. 1.00

01:05:26.000 You know, surgeons aren't arguably doing...

01:05:29.000 Highly specialized surgeons aren't doing it for the money.

01:05:32.000 They're doing it for maybe they had a child afflicted by a disease or researchers who do all this stuff, right?

01:05:38.000 They don't live extravagant lives, but they love to research, they love to solve problems.

01:05:41.000 I think maybe there are enough people in the planet who...

01:05:46.000 Are passionate about doing things or could want to do something for a higher reason than just money?

01:05:53.000 There's always going to be some that do, but what percentage of our population are surgeons that do things specifically because they had a child afflicted by a disease?

01:06:01.000 It's incredibly minute.

01:06:02.000 What percentage of our population is teachers That just want to help children.

01:06:07.000 It's not that big.

01:06:09.000 It's small.

01:06:10.000 And I think most people are out there struggling because they want a Lexus.

01:06:14.000 Most people are out there, they want to move into the house down the block.

01:06:19.000 These are not wise choices in a lot of ways because they're not engineering their life in a way that's harmonious or that's really going to prepare them for a long, healthy, happy life.

01:06:29.000 They're just...

01:06:30.000 We're good to go.

01:06:51.000 In Los Angeles in 2015 and finding out that you got fired because you made something on Twitter that, you know, upset people.

01:06:59.000 I mean, there's a transition involved there, and the radical transition of our environment changing, when you juxtapose that with our physical transition, boy, we're not much fucking different than we were a thousand years ago.

01:07:14.000 No. 0.99

01:07:14.000 But the world sure as fuck is. 0.99

01:07:16.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:07:17.000 You'd be a fascinating guy to discuss, like, the Fermi paradox with, I feel like.

01:07:21.000 Because you said you're optimistic, so, like, is that the ultimate doom for humanity?

01:07:26.000 I don't think there's an ultimate doom.

01:07:28.000 I think humanity... 1.00

01:07:30.000 Look, if you went back to the Neanderthal days and said, listen, you guys are fucked. 1.00

01:07:35.000 Let's just enjoy your time here. 1.00

01:07:36.000 Keep throwing those fucking spears at woolly mammoths. 1.00

01:07:39.000 But ultimately, you ain't gonna make it. 1.00

01:07:41.000 What would they do?

01:07:42.000 Would they carry on?

01:07:43.000 Would they keep going?

01:07:44.000 Would you went back to the ancient hominids that were living in Africa that had just climbed down from the trees and started experimenting with new food sources and trying to figure out tools? 0.99

01:07:53.000 Would you say, hey, look, guys, I know you're trying real hard to keep your family alive, but your family's fucked. 1.00

01:07:59.000 You people are fucked. 1.00

01:08:00.000 Even if you figured out shoes, you still have thumbs in your feet, you're not gonna make it. 1.00

01:08:04.000 There's going to be some new thing that comes after you that's going to be awesome.

01:08:08.000 It's going to have a goatee.

01:08:09.000 It's going to be talking on a microphone on a podcast.

01:08:11.000 That's you. 0.99

01:08:13.000 If you were standing in the savannas of Africa 300,000 years ago when our ancient hominid ancestors first started traveling around and figuring out hunting and all sorts of other things, you would look like a goddamn alien. 0.96

01:08:28.000 If you walked out holding onto your phone and started taking pictures of them, How much different would that be than a spaceship landing in Washington, D.C., and then coming out with a ray gun and making duplicates of people? 0.94

01:08:42.000 Right.

01:08:43.000 It would be probably less ridiculous if the aliens did that than you showing up in Africa half a million years ago.

01:08:50.000 But I think we would react to it differently than Africa half a million years ago would have reacted to that. 0.95

01:08:54.000 Maybe.

01:08:55.000 But I think that our future is like the alien that comes down and reproduces people with a laser.

01:09:01.000 I mean, I think our future is...

01:09:02.000 I think that's why the alien archetype exists.

01:09:05.000 I'm very pessimistic or very cynical when it comes to the idea of alien invasion.

01:09:14.000 The idea that we've been abducted, the people have come here, or beings have come here from another planet.

01:09:20.000 It's more likely in my mind that that archetype exists because we're extrapolating.

01:09:25.000 We're going from looking at gorillas to looking at people to looking at, well, what are we going to become?

01:09:30.000 We'll become this big-headed thing with very little use for muscle and tissue.

01:09:34.000 We're probably going to communicate telepathically.

01:09:36.000 We're not going to need mouths or vocal cords.

01:09:39.000 And we're probably not even going to need sex.

01:09:42.000 Because we're probably going to reproduce through some sort of a genetic replication process created by scientists.

01:09:48.000 That's probably our future.

01:09:50.000 It's probably going to be more efficient, more healthy.

01:09:53.000 Our monkey bodies that need sex, we need to come and we need to feed it with food and all that. 1.00

01:10:00.000 We're kind of prisoners to that. 0.98

01:10:01.000 And I think slowly but surely, if you can prove that people can be more harmonious or more happy or more healthy or whatever the fuck would be the benefit in evolving past that, I think it's almost inevitable. 0.95

01:10:14.000 I think that's when you look at this idea of this big-headed thing with a little skinny body. 1.00

01:10:21.000 Fuck, man. 1.00

01:10:22.000 It's kind of obvious. 1.00

01:10:24.000 This is where we're going.

01:10:25.000 We're becoming more and more slender.

01:10:28.000 We look at us in comparison to all the other animals. 0.99

01:10:31.000 If you grab your dog's fur, grab his skin, it's fucking tough. 0.97

01:10:37.000 It's like they could bite each other and they don't even get hurt that much. 1.00

01:10:40.000 If you got bit by a dog, you're fucked, man. 1.00

01:10:43.000 But dogs, like two dogs would get mad at each other at a dog park, and they bite each other and everybody's okay. 1.00

01:10:48.000 They just walk off.

01:10:48.000 Yeah.

01:10:49.000 He'd put a little fucking, you know, little rubbing alcohol on his little ouchie, and he's fine. 0.99

01:10:54.000 And two days later, that doesn't even look like a hole anymore. 1.00

01:10:58.000 We'd be fucked. 0.99

01:10:59.000 And I think our soft... 1.00

01:11:02.000 Fleshy bodies, we're reacting to the lack of need to be hard.

01:11:06.000 You don't need fangs anymore.

01:11:08.000 You don't need a tough hide. 0.96

01:11:10.000 What you need is a big brain.

01:11:11.000 And what you need is technological innovation in order to catch up to this incredible electronic world that we've created.

01:11:20.000 But again, only a small, a tiny fraction of our society will be a part of that evolution.

01:11:25.000 The vast majority are just going to be along for the ride for that.

01:11:29.000 So what does that mean for them?

01:11:30.000 Why would they be along for the ride?

01:11:32.000 I think a tiny fraction can create that.

01:11:36.000 But just like...

01:11:37.000 How many people use cell phones?

01:11:38.000 How many people use the internet?

01:11:39.000 It's not a tiny fraction.

01:11:41.000 It's the vast majority.

01:11:42.000 And I think ultimately that's what's going to happen to the entire species.

01:11:45.000 I think the vast majority are going to be privy to the incredible innovations of tiny, small, few people like Elon Musk.

01:11:53.000 Those are the ones, those innovators, those geniuses.

01:11:56.000 I hope so, man.

01:11:57.000 And it couldn't come any sooner, honestly.

01:12:00.000 Or an asteroid.

01:12:01.000 Or an asteroid.

01:12:01.000 We need to be thinking way bigger than we are right now.

01:12:05.000 I mean, you look at issues even like climate change, right?

01:12:07.000 It's a bigger issue than just the United States.

01:12:09.000 It's a global issue, and the sooner that we can get on board on a global agenda, but man, did we get far removed from the way this conversation started.

01:12:18.000 We did, but we didn't, because I think ultimately what we're talking about when we're talking about this outrage, this Twitter outrage, I think ultimately what it really boils down to is a bunch of people That are being unreasonable, and they're communicating in this unreasonable way, but they're just, they're out there.

01:12:34.000 There's a lot of them.

01:12:35.000 Most people, like, what percentage of people do you think really commented on that and got outraged?

01:12:42.000 On the scheme of, like, America?

01:12:44.000 Or the planet?

01:12:46.000 Less than 1%.

01:12:47.000 Way less.

01:12:48.000 Less than one tenth of one tenth of one percent.

01:12:51.000 Exactly.

01:12:51.000 It's a tiny amount.

01:12:52.000 So most people, this is what I think, across every issue, every communications issue, there's a general challenge.

01:13:00.000 It's hard to think critically.

01:13:02.000 Critical thinking is not an easy thing to do.

01:13:04.000 And I think that for a lot of people, like, take for example, when two galaxies collide together, what...

01:13:13.000 Describe what it looks like.

01:13:14.000 Describe what happens if you live through that.

01:13:16.000 When you pose that question...

01:13:17.000 There's no living through that.

01:13:19.000 No, there's...

01:13:20.000 When I pose the question to some people, that's usually the answer, right? 0.75

01:13:23.000 They go, oh, two galaxies collide and it's just shit crashing at each other and planets exploding and suns eating other stars and black holes eating each other.

01:13:31.000 And the reality, though, when you think about and when you judge the magnitude of the distances between those objects, the reality is statistically it's unlikely any two object would impact at all.

01:13:40.000 They'll come close and you're going to have some gravitational effects, but the odds that any two object actually collides is really, really, really small.

01:13:49.000 I think that when, you know, you pose that question to a lot of people, they imagine this apocalyptic scenario, but it's just, it's because they have a tough time estimating things.

01:13:59.000 They have a tough time thinking outside of their bubble, outside of their own consciousness, into like, you know, What could that be?

01:14:04.000 It's why Google used to have that interview question, that famous one, like, how many golf balls would fit in this school bus, right? 0.99

01:14:13.000 And a lot of people criticize that as like, ah, what a dumb question. 0.94

01:14:15.000 That doesn't have to do anything. 0.96

01:14:16.000 And it's like, well, they want to know, do you say a million, a billion, or a hundred thousand, right?

01:14:20.000 They want to know at what scale are you able to estimate the size of an object?

01:14:25.000 Because that just gives like a real quick feedback as to like, where are you on the critical thinking level?

01:14:31.000 So I think that when you apply that to what we were talking about today, I think that a lot of people have a tough time, and myself included, have a tough time estimating and oftentimes taking a step back from whatever their current daily issue is,

01:14:47.000 whatever their current stress is, whatever their current endorphin release they're seeking is, whatever their current thought is, and they have a tough time always keeping in perspective.

01:14:56.000 Perspective's the key here.

01:14:58.000 Keeping in perspective what the rest of The universe is and the world is and and the other people even just next door to you are going through well There was an article that I tweeted today from Yahoo from the UK Evidence of the multiverse.

01:15:12.000 We might have just bumped into another universe.

01:15:15.000 Hmm.

01:15:16.000 What was the evidence?

01:15:19.000 Prepare yourself.

01:15:21.000 Because, you know, it's one of those things you have to read like four or five times in order to really figure out...

01:15:29.000 Wait, what are you saying?

01:15:30.000 So you empathize with me here.

01:15:31.000 You've been through those nights where you click like 14, 15 links deep in Wikipedia and you get done and you're like... 0.99

01:15:37.000 Four hours have gone by and you're like, fuck, I'm fried. 0.99

01:15:40.000 I need to go to bed right now. 1.00

01:15:41.000 Or I'll watch documentaries on hypernovas or something like that.

01:15:45.000 And you try to...

01:15:47.000 Wrap your head around the idea of a star exploding and taking out the entire solar system or many other solar systems nearby and the fact that this is happening millions of times a day all throughout the universe.

01:16:01.000 There was a documentary that they had I don't remember was science channel or what channel was on but where Scientists at one point in time were concerned that there was a war going on in space Because they were recognizing these gamma bursts these incredible bursts of massive amounts of energy and they were happening at a in a repeated fashion all throughout the sky and They had to try to figure out what the fuck was going on.

01:16:30.000 Is there an alien war like this is like, you know What could this be?

01:16:33.000 Many decades ago.

01:16:34.000 Sure.

01:16:35.000 And slowly but surely, they started figuring out, like, oh my god, these are exploding stars.

01:16:41.000 These are novas.

01:16:42.000 And they happen all the time.

01:16:44.000 And if it happens close by, that's a wrap, civilization.

01:16:48.000 That's a wrap, world.

01:16:49.000 That's a wrap, oxygen.

01:16:50.000 No more water.

01:16:51.000 No, no, no, you're not going to need that.

01:16:52.000 No.

01:16:53.000 It's all gone.

01:16:54.000 And that is the reality of the cosmos all throughout the sky.

01:16:58.000 When we look up there, look up at infinity, somewhere out there, an impossible distance away from us...

01:17:08.000 A star's exploding.

01:17:10.000 And that's what they do.

01:17:11.000 Jason Silva, cool astrophysicist guy.

01:17:13.000 I know Jason.

01:17:14.000 Yeah, he does awesome YouTube videos.

01:17:16.000 He takes this incredibly difficult science and communicates in a way that we emotionally respond to.

01:17:21.000 And I love that.

01:17:21.000 And he was just talking about, like, he said one line in one of his videos somewhere where he was like, up there...

01:17:29.000 That's not an up there, far away place.

01:17:31.000 You're in the middle of it.

01:17:32.000 You're in the middle of the universe right now.

01:17:35.000 And even our galaxy, right?

01:17:36.000 We have these paintings of what the Milky Way galaxy looks like.

01:17:40.000 A lot of times people don't even ever have the thought, they would never need to even think about this, that we don't have a picture of what our galaxy looks like.

01:17:47.000 We have an artist rendition of what we think our galaxy looks like, but the furthest craft we have is barely out of our own sun belt.

01:17:54.000 It's out of our own gravitational pole from our own sun.

01:17:57.000 So...

01:17:59.000 Again, just perspective.

01:18:00.000 We're not even looking at it from outside.

01:18:02.000 Not yet.

01:18:02.000 Yeah, our photos, it won't happen anytime inside of our lifetimes.

01:18:06.000 No.

01:18:07.000 Unless we figure out how to bypass the speed of light.

01:18:09.000 That EM drive thing, man.

01:18:11.000 Yeah, and even then, we're talking about hundreds of millions of light years.

01:18:16.000 Right, so even going at the speed of light, it's going to take a hundred million years.

01:18:21.000 The most mind fucky statistic that I ever saw in one of these documentaries was they were talking about the possibility of each hole.

01:18:29.000 They were talking about the relative size of supermassive black holes and that every galaxy has a supermassive black hole that's one half of 1% of the mass of the galaxy. 0.60

01:18:40.000 The larger the galaxy, the larger the black hole.

01:18:42.000 And they're speculating that inside that black hole may be a whole nother universe with completely different laws, and that inside that universe may be other galaxies that have supermassive black holes at their center, and inside those supermassive black holes there are other universes.

01:18:59.000 So in our hundreds of billions of galaxies, There may be hundreds of billions of individual universes inside of those.

01:19:08.000 And when you go inside of them, there's hundreds of billions of more individual galaxies with hundreds of billions of more individual universes inside of them.

01:19:18.000 And that is ultimately intensely fractal.

01:19:21.000 And it is truly infinite in that sense.

01:19:23.000 And which one of those are we in right now?

01:19:28.000 Yeah, it's mind-fucky.

01:19:30.000 But Cecil was a lion and he lived in Zimbabwe and he was loved! 1.00

01:19:36.000 Donald Sterling's a piece of shit! 1.00

01:19:39.000 Don't joke about AIDS if you're white! 1.00

01:19:42.000 Exactly. 0.96

01:19:43.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:19:44.000 Our lack of perspective is alarming, but fuck, it makes sense. 1.00

01:19:51.000 I mean, we still have these goddamn monkey bodies. 0.99

01:19:54.000 And I think that's ultimately going to be the big pull or the big appeal of transcending this physical embodiment that we carry our consciousness in. 0.99

01:20:05.000 And then accepting this idea of a symbiotic relationship with some sort of microchips and Fucking fiber optic lines or whatever the hell it's gonna take form of I mean, we're essentially symbiotically connected to technology already with glasses You know we need these fucking things that we've created that cover over our eyes to see better or With phones man. 0.93

01:20:30.000 I left my house the other day. 1.00

01:20:32.000 I got a hundred yards from my door and went shit Shit! 1.00

01:20:35.000 My phone! 1.00

01:20:36.000 It was like I left my baby on the roof.

01:20:38.000 Like, I had to turn around.

01:20:39.000 Like, I was terrified. 0.97

01:20:41.000 I mean, that's ridiculous.

01:20:42.000 I can't just go somewhere and borrow someone's phone and call my wife and go, hey, I left my phone at home. 0.65

01:20:49.000 I'll be home in a couple hours. 1.00

01:20:50.000 Fuck that! 1.00

01:20:51.000 Well, that's why when you say that over the timeline, you've seen we're getting closer and closer, the connections, more people are getting connected, and we're getting connected with more people and closer. 1.00

01:20:58.000 I agree technologically, but I feel like in the real physical world that we live in, we're getting further apart.

01:21:04.000 And we look at people's lives on social media, like on Instagram and Facebook, and all the models who are coming out right now with their posts about...

01:21:12.000 Instagram models posting about what you don't see, the side of it you don't see, right?

01:21:17.000 The hundred shots that it took her to get that perfect photo and the argument she got in with her sister over take one more, take one more, take one more before she got that perfect one that you're then liking and you're then trying to compare your life to.

01:21:29.000 We are pushing our real connections and real personal lives.

01:21:34.000 First of all, we're judging ourselves based by this impossible, unattainable standard on social media that That, you know, if someone takes a bad picture, they don't upload it.

01:21:42.000 They delete that one and they take a better picture.

01:21:44.000 And they take a better one and better one and better one until that's the one that it doesn't even look...

01:21:48.000 It hardly looks like them anymore.

01:21:49.000 And now we're expected to measure us looking at the mirror against that perfectly lit, perfectly critiqued, careful image of what we think our next best person is like.

01:21:58.000 And that's got some really weird implications to evolution.

01:22:02.000 I'll give you one example real quick with Instagram is...

01:22:06.000 I have a little sister and I'm terrified of when every time she gets in another social media account because I'm like, oh no, like, you know, where is this going to lead?

01:22:15.000 When I think about young kids, let's say impressionable teenagers who are going through the most important biological and neurological development phase of what will be their adult life, they're coming into their identity.

01:22:28.000 And they have access to this dopamine drip, this endorphin drip in their brain that generations before never had that kind of access to.

01:22:35.000 When a girl can upload a photo onto Instagram and start refreshing the dozens of, you're hot baby, sexy baby, nice smile, pretty girl.

01:22:44.000 And she does that during a time when she's otherwise dealing with a difficult, conflicting emotion inside of her.

01:22:51.000 And that's now her drug.

01:22:53.000 That's her escape from otherwise facing that reality.

01:22:57.000 And growing through it the way generations before did.

01:22:59.000 I'm not saying it's necessarily bad or wrong.

01:23:01.000 Maybe this is a better way to go through that stage of your life.

01:23:04.000 But maybe it's not. 0.97

01:23:05.000 Maybe that's bad that you can so easily bypass all that hard shit you would have otherwise had to have dealt with internally. 0.85

01:23:12.000 What is that doing to evolution? 0.97

01:23:14.000 We don't know.

01:23:15.000 We won't know for a long time until we look back on it and go, that was probably not great.

01:23:19.000 Or maybe we look back on it and go, that's what led us to where we are.

01:23:22.000 But it's got to have some impact.

01:23:24.000 And that kind of stuff, you know...

01:23:26.000 I deal with on a daily basis as I try to figure out, like, how do I want to bring my games on these platforms?

01:23:32.000 And I want my games to interact with people in these ways.

01:23:34.000 Yeah.

01:23:35.000 Yeah.

01:23:36.000 I mean, we really don't know.

01:23:37.000 We're just guessing.

01:23:38.000 These children are guinea pigs.

01:23:40.000 Right.

01:23:40.000 They're growing up in this weird world.

01:23:42.000 Right. 1.00

01:23:42.000 I mean, I grew up in a world where you could bullshit. 1.00

01:23:45.000 You could lie. 1.00

01:23:47.000 Nobody knew.

01:23:47.000 You couldn't just Google.

01:23:48.000 Oh, the earth is only fucking 35 miles across, dude. 0.97

01:23:52.000 Don't worry about it. 1.00

01:23:53.000 Like, now people Google it and they go, you're an idiot. 1.00

01:23:55.000 It's 24,000 miles, dummy. 1.00

01:24:00.000 Like, you're the smart one now. 0.75

01:24:02.000 Exactly, because you Googled it.

01:24:04.000 I think I have this other thought about these things and this progression, and I think that we look at the world, we look at everything that's going on, whether it's butterflies or elk or eagles or caterpillars,

01:24:20.000 and we look at it all and we say, well, that's nature.

01:24:23.000 But we look at ourselves and because we're conscious and because we can make choices and because we can objectively look at the risks versus rewards of each decision and debate it amongst each other and seek advice from peers, we don't think of it as natural.

01:24:38.000 We think of it as something that we can manipulate and something that we can change and that we can alter.

01:24:43.000 But I think that human behavior might just be ultimately the most complex version of the natural world that we know.

01:24:51.000 And that all of our behavior, all the stuff that we're doing, whether it's our rampant materialism, our obsession with attention and technology, All this stuff is leading to what I said before, this electronic caterpillar.

01:25:05.000 I think that what we're doing right now is totally natural. 0.98

01:25:09.000 And this obsession with checking your likes on your ass pic to make sure that everybody thinks you're hot, this is... 0.99

01:25:16.000 This is all just going to fuel your desire to get a better camera. 0.99

01:25:20.000 It's going to fuel your desire to get a new phone or to support the newest social media platform that's going to allow your ass to shake in a much more enticing way that's going to get you even more likes and hearts and fucking thumbs ups and emojis. 0.98

01:25:37.000 I think it's natural. 0.99

01:25:39.000 I really do.

01:25:40.000 I mean...

01:25:41.000 I don't know what we can do about it other than communicate our concerns about the potential downfalls of this behavior and this kind of thing.

01:25:50.000 Confront the negative.

01:25:51.000 Don't shy away from it.

01:25:52.000 Confront it.

01:25:53.000 Solve the negative problems that are coming with it as well.

01:25:56.000 Keep an open mind about it and never stop communicating because as soon as we do that, we've lost.

01:26:01.000 We've lost sight of what the goal was.

01:26:03.000 And that's what's a huge problem with that company firing you because they impeded on your ability to communicate and You communicated in a very concise, objective, analytical way.

01:26:16.000 You looked at the problem and said, look, this guy, he has every right to be an old bigot in the privacy of his own home.

01:26:22.000 The fact that you got in trouble for that...

01:26:26.000 It shows the repercussions and the downfalls of this new time.

01:26:31.000 And when we stop communicating.

01:26:32.000 Yes.

01:26:33.000 And especially when, well, also when you let in too many voices.

01:26:37.000 Like, how about you and that guy sitting down?

01:26:39.000 You and that guy that wanted to fire you?

01:26:40.000 Right. 1.00

01:26:41.000 Have a sit down and have a fucking conversation. 1.00

01:26:43.000 Right. 1.00

01:26:43.000 I mean, don't shut off my email, stupid. 1.00

01:26:46.000 Like, what are you doing? 1.00

01:26:47.000 Meet at Starbucks? 1.00

01:26:48.000 How about fuck you? 1.00

01:26:49.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:26:49.000 You know? 1.00

01:26:50.000 I mean, wouldn't you have loved to have a few million bucks in the bank right then?

01:26:53.000 Oh, boy. 1.00

01:26:53.000 And just go, suck my dick. 1.00

01:26:55.000 Oh boy. 1.00

01:26:56.000 And then just go online and just do a YouTube video.

01:26:59.000 Listen to what this dummy just tell me.

01:27:00.000 Well, I did that.

01:27:01.000 They were trying to dangle severance and stuff.

01:27:04.000 Dangle it?

01:27:05.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:27:06.000 I said fuck no to that. 0.99

01:27:07.000 When that whole thing was unfolding, it got a lot. 0.99

01:27:12.000 So a lot of media outlets, I linked you to the Opie and Anthony, they talked about it, and they completely held my back, obviously, because those guys are super level-headed people.

01:27:20.000 But the media shitstorm that started to unfold, CNN, Fox News, everybody, every major outlet was reaching out to me, trying to get me to come on their show.

01:27:30.000 And I was sitting at a Crossroads.

01:27:31.000 I'm a communications professional.

01:27:32.000 I knew that.

01:27:33.000 And I had seen what happened to Justine Sacco.

01:27:35.000 I think that happened before me.

01:27:37.000 And I was well aware of where this could go for me in my career and my personal life.

01:27:42.000 So I realized that, you know, I need to take control of the PR shitstorm.

01:27:46.000 I need to be the one who makes the right moves while the company makes all the wrong moves.

01:27:50.000 And I need to get this back on track.

01:27:52.000 So they didn't, you know, part of their terms, they didn't want me to do any media appearances whatsoever.

01:27:56.000 Of course, they wanted it to go away, right? 0.98

01:27:58.000 Of course, cowards. 0.96

01:28:00.000 And so I couldn't take the blood money. 1.00

01:28:02.000 Good for you.

01:28:03.000 I had to, you know, make sure that...

01:28:04.000 How much did that wind up costing you?

01:28:06.000 Uh, a lot.

01:28:09.000 Yeah.

01:28:10.000 Yeah.

01:28:10.000 Tens of thousands of dollars.

01:28:12.000 Good for you. 1.00

01:28:13.000 Fuck them. 1.00

01:28:14.000 I hope it costs them even more. 1.00

01:28:17.000 How did that guy keep his job?

01:28:19.000 The guy who fired you?

01:28:20.000 How did he keep his job?

01:28:21.000 The culture of that company was different too.

01:28:24.000 It would take a long time to unpack the complexities of how a publisher relationship works with a studio in our industry. 0.99

01:28:30.000 And so they were at the studio level and they just wanted to make fucking games. 0.98

01:28:34.000 They're artists, they're creators. 0.99

01:28:35.000 They just wanted to make cool shit and go to work and have fun doing it. 0.98

01:28:38.000 And then the publisher was the one who had the business relationships. 0.98

01:28:41.000 They're the ones who had relationships with the NBA that they were afraid of.

01:28:45.000 But they were funding the studio's development.

01:28:47.000 They didn't own the studio, but they funded it.

01:28:49.000 And so, like, when it comes down from the top where they go, oh, you know, he can't work on the project anymore.

01:28:53.000 We're not going to give you any more funding.

01:28:55.000 It's like, I would have loved for someone from that company to call the bluff because I don't think it would have ever come to that.

01:29:01.000 But they couldn't. 0.77

01:29:03.000 And it sucks that they got put in that position. 0.96

01:29:05.000 It sucks that no one there could have the backbone... 0.97

01:29:08.000 I know how I would have handled it if I was running that company at the time.

01:29:11.000 What would you have done? 0.96

01:29:12.000 I would have called the bluff of the publishing company and I would have said, that's ridiculous. 0.97

01:29:18.000 Wait a day.

01:29:19.000 Nothing is going to happen and we'll talk about it again tomorrow. 0.97

01:29:23.000 And then when nothing happened and when everything goes away and no business deals were threatened, we'd go, now what was the big fucking deal? 0.98

01:29:29.000 What was the big fucking deal? 0.97

01:29:30.000 Let's finish making the game. 0.99

01:29:31.000 Let's not have a bunch of people mad at us because we trampled all over someone's constitutional rights.

01:29:37.000 And let's implement his good ideas.

01:29:40.000 That was the other thing that they lost was all of these programs and initiatives that I was building and that I was going to take charge of and run through the game's launch cycle and keeping all of the players engaged.

01:29:50.000 All this stuff I had done before, I was going to do again for them on this new IP, this new thing that needed that work more than anything.

01:29:57.000 It didn't have anything to build off of.

01:29:58.000 It was starting from zero.

01:30:00.000 All of that was gone.

01:30:01.000 They didn't have a person to come in that could carry that torch further and finish the job I had started.

01:30:08.000 Good!

01:30:09.000 Good. 1.00

01:30:10.000 That's their punishment for being pussies. 1.00

01:30:12.000 It sucks. 1.00

01:30:13.000 It sucked for everybody. 0.99

01:30:14.000 But you like your new job better.

01:30:16.000 I do like my new job better.

01:30:17.000 I get to make...

01:30:20.000 Well, explain what your new job is to people at home.

01:30:22.000 Well, so anybody who knows video games, I work for a company now called 3D Realms.

01:30:27.000 Huge company.

01:30:28.000 Well, they used to be a huge company.

01:30:29.000 Small company now, but huge name, right?

01:30:31.000 Because they're the guys who made like Duke Nukem.

01:30:34.000 You know what I mean?

01:30:34.000 Commander Keen.

01:30:35.000 These are some of the most retro, old-school classics that influenced an entire industry.

01:30:40.000 And is there less people working in it now?

01:30:42.000 Oh, absolutely, yeah.

01:30:43.000 For the last decade where they weren't really doing anything, it would just shrink, shrink, shrink, shrink, shrink.

01:30:49.000 So now they had a bunch of litigation that was happening as well that they were able to finally put to rest.

01:30:55.000 And now the company is able to look to the future.

01:30:57.000 And so they brought me on to be like, let's build this thing back up.

01:31:01.000 And we're going to start with a new IP. What is an IP? Intellectual property.

01:31:07.000 Okay.

01:31:07.000 Because I hear internet protocol.

01:31:09.000 I'm like, how's that a nerd?

01:31:11.000 IP, intellectual property.

01:31:13.000 It's a franchise.

01:31:14.000 So Bombshell is the new brand, the new game, creating a whole new slate of characters.

01:31:18.000 And it's what we want to start that sort of comeback for 3D Realms.

01:31:24.000 The game.

01:31:25.000 I don't know.

01:31:25.000 You said you played games.

01:31:26.000 Huge gamer.

01:31:28.000 For a long time.

01:31:29.000 For many, many years.

01:31:30.000 To a point where I had to walk away.

01:31:31.000 Oh boy.

01:31:32.000 Because I was wasting way too much time playing mostly Quake.

01:31:35.000 Okay.

01:31:35.000 That was the big one.

01:31:36.000 I was playing Quake online fucking eight, ten hours a day sometimes. 0.98

01:31:40.000 Yeah. 0.96

01:31:41.000 But Duke Nukem, I know that there was a new one that they worked on forever.

01:31:45.000 It got to be a joke.

01:31:46.000 Duke Nukem Forever.

01:31:46.000 Yeah.

01:31:47.000 But it got to be a joke.

01:31:48.000 The online joke was, you know, it's going to come out right after Duke Nukem comes out.

01:31:53.000 Or there was all these jokes about when it would come out.

01:31:55.000 It did come out eventually, right?

01:31:57.000 It did come out eventually.

01:31:58.000 And it's tough for anything that goes for 12 years of hype.

01:32:03.000 Was it 12 years?

01:32:04.000 Yeah, it was something like 12 years.

01:32:05.000 How does that happen?

01:32:06.000 Explain that to me.

01:32:07.000 Well, I wasn't here for that, so I don't know all the story.

01:32:10.000 You're not responsible.

01:32:11.000 From what I know, yes.

01:32:13.000 From what I know is the game just went through a lot of iteration.

01:32:18.000 So every year, the next big thing came out, and the game was no longer the next big thing, so they had to add some more stuff to it to try to beat the thing that just came out.

01:32:28.000 And then something else came out.

01:32:29.000 And so this constant trying to, you know, striving for perfection, and there was other problems, and there was lots of controversy.

01:32:36.000 You could read articles for days, literally days, where people are just investigating that whole evolution of that franchise.

01:32:44.000 What were they using for the 3D engine?

01:32:46.000 Was it the Unreal engine?

01:32:47.000 It kept changing.

01:32:48.000 Yeah.

01:33:03.000 That's the last generation of Unreal Engine.

01:33:04.000 Unreal Engine's on four now.

01:33:06.000 It's Unreal Engine now.

01:33:10.000 But imagine if for Bombshell we had indefinitely kept upgrading the engine, changing new technologies, implementing new technologies, and new workflows, and new stacks, and new things breaking.

01:33:20.000 It would never end.

01:33:22.000 It would be a never-ending building and polishing cycle.

01:33:24.000 So that was kind of my perspective of what Duke Nukem was stuck in for a long time.

01:33:28.000 So it was just a poor management of the project.

01:33:32.000 And, you know, creatively, you could debate whether it was also creatively like, you know, almost like this need for perfection, you know, like no one pixel can be out of place, that type of thing.

01:33:44.000 And people did.

01:33:45.000 They pointed fingers to that whole thing.

01:33:46.000 But at the end of the day, what came out was Duke Nukem Forever.

01:33:49.000 And it wasn't, you know, I don't think anything could sustain like a decade of hype and ever live up to that expectation.

01:33:57.000 Was it good?

01:33:58.000 Was it a good game?

01:33:58.000 Did people enjoy it?

01:33:59.000 No, it was a pretty infamously poor game.

01:34:05.000 But again, I don't think that it was the fault of the game or the developers.

01:34:10.000 I think it was maybe to some extent, but I think more than anything it was failed by its own image.

01:34:16.000 It was built up and gamers had built this expectation in their head about what it could be.

01:34:22.000 And then it just wasn't.

01:34:24.000 You never had a chance of living up to that.

01:34:27.000 Imagine rebooting a crazy old franchise and it just never living up to what you would have expected from that.

01:34:35.000 Yeah.

01:34:37.000 It's kind of impossible.

01:34:39.000 To have something go on for 12 years, it's like they just have to get it out to cut their losses.

01:34:43.000 Right.

01:34:44.000 Yeah.

01:34:45.000 So that happened finally.

01:34:48.000 It's in the past, and now we're able to focus on the future, which is new IP, which is Bombshell.

01:34:54.000 So you're familiar with Duke Nukem enough?

01:34:56.000 You know what that character was like?

01:34:57.000 Sure.

01:34:57.000 Well, back in the day, in the 90s, that kind of character works, right?

01:35:01.000 Because it's a super one-dimensional character.

01:35:04.000 It's like Carlton.

01:35:04.000 Schwarzenegger in Predator.

01:35:06.000 Exactly.

01:35:06.000 Just the perfect stereotype of what that Schwarzenegger or Stallone character was from the 80s will reincarnate it in video game form in the 90s.

01:35:16.000 Right.

01:35:16.000 Well, that kind of character doesn't really work anymore.

01:35:19.000 There he is.

01:35:19.000 Yeah, there he is.

01:35:20.000 Super brooding masculinity and just...

01:35:23.000 Come get some.

01:35:25.000 Big belt buckle.

01:35:27.000 So that character doesn't...

01:35:29.000 Even that character today would have trouble playing.

01:35:32.000 People come to expect more depth and complexity from, I feel like, from their characters.

01:35:36.000 Certainly in movies and in all the video games we play.

01:35:38.000 Things evolve.

01:35:40.000 So Bombshell was a character...

01:35:42.000 She's not one of those, but she was a character who actually originated in the Duke Nukem era.

01:35:47.000 Like, back in the 90s, she was concepted and conceived as a sidekick to Duke Nukem.

01:35:52.000 And so when she was originally conceived, she was this...

01:35:55.000 Kind of overly satirical version of the female sexy tie chick as well, in the same way Duke was, right?

01:36:01.000 Which may have played back then, but it certainly wouldn't play today in the culture that we have now with feminism and with women in gaming. 1.00

01:36:08.000 And even beyond that, just simply she wasn't a complex character.

01:36:12.000 She wasn't an interesting character. 0.52

01:36:13.000 She wasn't propelling necessarily that storyline.

01:36:15.000 So we had to kind of go back to the drawing board with this version of Bombshell, the one that we've been working on the last couple of years.

01:36:22.000 Whoa, she's badass. 1.00

01:36:23.000 Yeah.

01:36:23.000 Yeah, well, that's the old version of Bombshell.

01:36:26.000 What does she look like now? 0.86

01:36:27.000 So now she's much less bare midriffs, right? 0.77

01:36:30.000 Much less skin.

01:36:32.000 Hmm.

01:36:32.000 Yeah, let's pull up that one.

01:36:34.000 Down, down, down.

01:36:35.000 Right above the one you had open.

01:36:36.000 That one.

01:36:37.000 Yes.

01:36:38.000 That's the same one?

01:36:39.000 No, no, no.

01:36:39.000 The one where she's holding the revolver.

01:36:41.000 Yes.

01:36:41.000 Yeah.

01:36:43.000 So this is...

01:36:44.000 You don't see much there.

01:36:45.000 Yeah, you don't see much.

01:36:45.000 But over here, click on the two to the right and one down.

01:36:49.000 That one?

01:36:49.000 Yes.

01:36:50.000 Oh, no, that's not it either.

01:36:52.000 We'll close out of this.

01:36:52.000 Just go to bombshell.com because we actually bought this domain away from, it used to be like some porn mogul had it.

01:36:59.000 No, like tits and ass. 1.00

01:37:01.000 Oh no. 1.00

01:37:02.000 How much did you have to pay for it?

01:37:04.000 I don't know.

01:37:05.000 It was before my time.

01:37:06.000 But got it away from that and now we've turned it into, so that's the robot.

01:37:10.000 So she's got this bionic arm, and she as a character is defined more by what she's been through, and very multifaceted personalities and attributes, not just traits, not just physical appearance.

01:37:23.000 Do you have to run this past feminism and gaming to make sure that it's okay? 1.00

01:37:26.000 No.

01:37:27.000 No, but what I need to ask for all gamers, right, is to look at this and go, it's not easy making a strong female character that can appeal to both men and women.

01:37:40.000 Tomb Raider?

01:37:42.000 Right, so we get to draw from awesome inspirations like Lara Croft, Sarah Connor, even Ripley.

01:37:48.000 And we're able to look at like, yeah, this works, but what makes that thing work?

01:37:52.000 It's not the physical appearance, it's not what you look like, it's who you are and what you stand for.

01:37:57.000 So Shelly Bombshell, she got her nickname because she was like the foremost bomb disposal expert in the GDF. Is that how she lost her arm?

01:38:04.000 It is how she lost her arm.

01:38:05.000 You talk about her like she's real.

01:38:07.000 It's kind of disturbing me.

01:38:09.000 Dude, to us she is! 0.99

01:38:11.000 And we want to see it, and cosplayers can bring it to life, dude.

01:38:15.000 Oh, cosplayers.

01:38:19.000 So, she was a part of the Duke Nukem franchise?

01:38:23.000 She was.

01:38:24.000 If you scroll down, or you can click on the media link at the top, you can see more screenshots that are a little bit closer.

01:38:29.000 There you go.

01:38:30.000 Is Duke Nukem the only game that...

01:38:32.000 Well, there's Daikatana, right?

01:38:34.000 That was another game that kind of went that way, right?

01:38:37.000 It was dragged on.

01:38:38.000 It was John Romero after he left id Software.

01:38:41.000 It was a little, yeah, it was sort of typecast-y as well. 0.96

01:38:44.000 That was a fucking good game, though. 0.98

01:38:46.000 Sure. 1.00

01:38:46.000 That game got fucked over. 1.00

01:38:48.000 That was a fun game. 0.98

01:38:49.000 Like, the physics were cool.

01:38:50.000 It was very much like Quake 1 with better graphics.

01:38:54.000 The weapons were cool.

01:38:56.000 Yes.

01:38:56.000 Yeah, and excuse me, I'm not saying those games don't have a place.

01:39:00.000 They do, right?

01:39:01.000 And that's the thing.

01:39:03.000 What we don't want to be doing to creators, to creative people, to artists, is making them kind of like we didn't want to walk on eggshells with talking about these controversial issues today, and I feel like we didn't.

01:39:14.000 We don't want our artists walking on eggshells, worried about, well, what are people going to think?

01:39:18.000 Are they going to be down our necks for being sexist or misogynist or...

01:39:22.000 Or fueling some negative aspect of pop culture. 1.00

01:39:27.000 Well, she's got big tits, so you're in trouble. 1.00

01:39:29.000 Look at her. 1.00

01:39:31.000 People are going to definitely say that you're doing something wrong because she's hot. 0.95

01:39:34.000 I hope not.

01:39:35.000 So far, no one has.

01:39:36.000 Well, they haven't even seen it yet. 0.99

01:39:37.000 Wait till this fucking podcast goes live. 0.99

01:39:39.000 She is hot, and wait until you watch a trailer. 1.00

01:39:41.000 I don't know if you're able to...

01:39:42.000 She's got a fight. 1.00

01:39:43.000 Is that the boss?

01:39:44.000 It's one of the bosses, yeah.

01:39:45.000 I don't know.

01:39:45.000 Can you pull up videos?

01:39:46.000 Yeah, fuck yeah. 0.99

01:39:47.000 You should pull up the Xerath Guardian. 1.00

01:39:49.000 Shut down our YouTube video?

01:39:51.000 Yeah, we'll make sure you don't shut down our YouTube videos, because that's what happens.

01:39:54.000 Is that what they do? 0.99

01:39:55.000 It's your intellectual property of whatever fucking company. 0.99

01:39:59.000 Oh, you're talking about us? 1.00

01:39:59.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:40:00.000 Oh, no, you don't have to worry about that from us.

01:40:02.000 Yeah, you say that.

01:40:02.000 No.

01:40:02.000 There's got to be some company at the head of this, though.

01:40:05.000 Absolutely, it's our company.

01:40:06.000 Yeah, but do you have the pull?

01:40:09.000 Can you really make this happen?

01:40:10.000 Absolutely.

01:40:11.000 You'll never...

01:40:12.000 Alright, find a video, Jamie.

01:40:14.000 Go to bombshell.com.

01:40:15.000 If you scroll up, it's the top one here.

01:40:17.000 Right?

01:40:17.000 A little bit down to that middle one.

01:40:18.000 Alright, here we go.

01:40:19.000 Yep.

01:40:19.000 Go full screen.

01:40:20.000 The PAX trailer?

01:40:21.000 Yeah, the PAX one.

01:40:22.000 Alright. 1.00

01:40:23.000 Hit that bitch and go full screen. 1.00

01:40:25.000 I also love our music. 0.99

01:40:26.000 We have an incredible composer in our game.

01:40:28.000 His name's Andrew Holschild.

01:40:31.000 I know you're angry, but you can't obsess over the past.

01:40:34.000 This isn't the time...

01:40:39.000 What's going on here?

01:40:43.000 Whoa.

01:40:44.000 Why is it freezing?

01:40:49.000 Okay, stop.

01:40:50.000 Pause.

01:40:50.000 Listen, we can't watch it like this.

01:40:52.000 Pause it, let it load up.

01:40:56.000 It is loaded.

01:40:57.000 I saw the buffer. 1.00

01:40:58.000 Yeah, something's wrong with your fucking shitty buffer on YouTube. 0.99

01:41:03.000 Try it from the beginning, Jamie. 0.99

01:41:07.000 These are the Xerath Guardians.

01:41:08.000 Do you think it's because you went fullscreen?

01:41:11.000 No, probably not.

01:41:13.000 Just leave it like this.

01:41:16.000 It's fine.

01:41:17.000 Okay.

01:41:31.000 So she'll through the game kind of be like...

01:41:33.000 breaking the fourth wall, talking to the audience.

01:41:37.000 It's almost like she knows...

01:41:39.000 Oh, so this is like, uh...

01:41:40.000 It's third person.

01:41:42.000 It's top-down, yeah.

01:41:43.000 It's an isometric game.

01:41:44.000 So this is...

01:41:45.000 It's amazing looking at this now, seeing how far along, even from when this video was recorded, how much better the game is.

01:41:51.000 But these are the Xerath Guardians, one of the boss fights.

01:41:54.000 So you're playing with two sticks on your controller.

01:41:56.000 So you're running around with the left one, and you're aiming with the right thumbstick.

01:41:59.000 And then you're shooting, you're using different abilities, different, you know, she's got her mighty punch, she's got eight different weapons that she can transform her arm into.

01:42:06.000 And this is a standard, like, Xbox-type controller?

01:42:09.000 Yep.

01:42:09.000 PlayStation?

01:42:10.000 Yep, Xbox One and PlayStation 4, it's going to be like the controllers that you've come to expect.

01:42:14.000 On PC, which is releasing later this month, is the keyboard and mouse configuration as well.

01:42:18.000 And it'll always be top-down like this?

01:42:20.000 No, so sometimes we pull it down into third person.

01:42:24.000 It was made on the Unreal Engine so we're able to build it in super high fidelity.

01:42:28.000 And you can bring down the camera to be like a third person game almost.

01:42:31.000 And the game was actually kind of designed to be a first person or third person shooter.

01:42:35.000 Yeah, first person is my favorite because it feels like you're actually there.

01:42:39.000 You know, you're running through these 3D worlds.

01:42:40.000 Top down is like you're watching.

01:42:44.000 Well, if you love Quake, and if you love first person shooters, we actually have a build engine prequel to Bombshell that's gonna come out after this game that takes place in the first person.

01:42:55.000 And it looks very retro style.

01:42:57.000 So when is this game out?

01:42:59.000 So this game comes out November 26th on PC. This is where they merge together.

01:43:04.000 This is stage 3 of the boss fight.

01:43:05.000 So PC's coming out first?

01:43:06.000 Yeah.

01:43:07.000 Oh wow, they merge?

01:43:08.000 Yeah, they literally merge together now, so now they're one giant boss.

01:43:12.000 Oh, this seems like a hard game to play.

01:43:15.000 Yeah, it's got...

01:43:16.000 Have you ever played Dark Souls?

01:43:18.000 No.

01:43:18.000 It's got times where it's kind of got Dark Souls difficulty.

01:43:21.000 It's not an easy game, but it's also a very accessible game and easy to pick up and play.

01:43:26.000 But it looks awesome.

01:43:27.000 This is the kill sequence and this to me kind of defines her personality.

01:43:32.000 It defines her personality?

01:43:34.000 Yeah.

01:43:38.000 It sets the tone for who she is.

01:43:50.000 For folks watching this at home, I mean listening to this, which is the vast majority of the people, this is...

01:43:56.000 Not that fun.

01:43:57.000 So for them, go to bombshell.com and you can watch these videos and check it out.

01:44:02.000 But very cool graphics.

01:44:04.000 Looks like a fun game to play.

01:44:05.000 And if you're really into games, this is probably something you'd check out. 0.93

01:44:08.000 The thing about games that I like is that the amount of fucking entertainment you get from a really good video game. 0.92

01:44:15.000 How much does a good video game cost these days? 0.98

01:44:17.000 Typically they're 59 bucks, 60 bucks.

01:44:19.000 Think about how many hours of entertainment you can get, especially if you turn it into a first-person shooter where you go online and play multiplayer.

01:44:28.000 Oh, my God.

01:44:29.000 Hundreds of hours people are putting into this thing.

01:44:31.000 It's incredible.

01:44:32.000 And this game's not going to be that much.

01:44:34.000 This game would be like $39.

01:44:35.000 It's a single-player-only game.

01:44:36.000 It doesn't have online.

01:44:36.000 Oh, really?

01:44:37.000 Yeah, single-player only game, but we want to make co-op.

01:44:40.000 This game would be so fun for that.

01:44:41.000 But yeah, you talk about even the full-price games, like Call of Duty will be $60, right?

01:44:45.000 Well, that game, with how many hours you get to put in it, you compare it to a two-hour movie that you see for $12 or $14 down at the AMC, right?

01:44:53.000 Right.

01:44:53.000 And you're getting so much bigger bang for your entertainment dollar buying a video game than you would in a movie.

01:44:58.000 And so a lot of times when people are worried about our games getting too pricey, with mobile games being so cheap and so affordable that they are, with how much entertainment you're getting out of it, it's crazy.

01:45:10.000 Yeah, it's amazing.

01:45:11.000 I don't think these artists are getting paid enough, honestly.

01:45:12.000 Well, the amount of money that you guys make, though, in video games is bigger than any movie now, right?

01:45:17.000 Oh, yeah.

01:45:17.000 Yes.

01:45:18.000 It's surpassed, I think, 2012 or 13. That's crazy.

01:45:23.000 That's when it surpassed Hollywood, yeah.

01:45:24.000 When did it surpass porn?

01:45:25.000 I don't know that it surpassed porn.

01:45:27.000 Probably way earlier.

01:45:28.000 Porn doesn't make that much money anymore, does it?

01:45:29.000 No more?

01:45:30.000 They say the way porn makes big money these days, and this is kind of a sneaky thing, is hotels.

01:45:38.000 Pay-per-view in hotels.

01:45:40.000 That's where people buy porn. 0.99

01:45:41.000 Interesting.

01:45:41.000 That's where people most of the time buy porn.

01:45:43.000 Well, if you're a business guy, you can expense the trip.

01:45:45.000 You can expense it on your trip.

01:45:47.000 $19.99 for a movie?

01:45:49.000 Hmm.

01:45:50.000 What did you watch?

01:45:53.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:45:53.000 If you play bombshell and if you walk away with a different image jump into your head than just that blonde babe, scantily clad, tits and ass, then we've done something. 1.00

01:46:02.000 We left an impression on you that tells you that what defines a bombshell, what defines a badass chick is more of her context in her life and what she's doing and how she's combating that adversity, then it is what she looks like. 0.99

01:46:14.000 Are you guys preparing for feminist blowback? 0.95

01:46:16.000 Feminism and gaming blowback? 1.00

01:46:18.000 No, I mean, I think about it a little bit more myself just because of the way I think and what I've been through, but that's not what the team at Interceptor is the studio in Denmark making that game.

01:46:28.000 Interceptor, no one there is thinking that.

01:46:29.000 They're just thinking, we have this idea for an incredible chick, an incredible villain too.

01:46:35.000 Jadis Heskel, he's the villain.

01:46:37.000 You didn't see him in that trailer.

01:46:38.000 But he's the lead antagonist.

01:46:40.000 He's voiced by the voice of Duke Nukem, John St. John.

01:46:42.000 So he's also part of the 3D Realms family still.

01:46:45.000 They're just looking at making incredible characters with a fun story.

01:46:49.000 No one's saying this story is serious like you saw.

01:46:51.000 She rides a shield and punches him in the face to do the executing move. 1.00

01:46:56.000 Well, she throws some grenades under the shield, blows them up and goes flying. 1.00

01:47:00.000 Which is like that classic, over-the-top, almost B-action movie type stuff, right?

01:47:04.000 But that's the game that we're making.

01:47:05.000 We don't want it to be too serious.

01:47:07.000 We want it to still be on the fun side of serious.

01:47:10.000 Now, speaking of technology and technology of the future, are you guys going to start doing things like Oculus Rift?

01:47:16.000 Are you guys going to start...

01:47:18.000 Producing games for for something that's like completely immersive like that we could man We don't want to say no to anything.

01:47:25.000 We couldn't say yes now you could do nothing to announce on your show Unfortunately, but it's it's the technology is amazing.

01:47:30.000 Have you tried it?

01:47:31.000 Have you worn those?

01:47:32.000 I've only worn well, I've won two two versions I've worn the original version which is very pixelated which was okay Amazing because it gave me this like whoa this idea like I see where this is going and then more recently I My friend Lewis from Unbox Therapy was in here,

01:47:48.000 and he showed me one that's a cell phone.

01:47:51.000 You slide it in like a Galaxy.

01:47:54.000 Yeah, Samsung phone, and you put it on, but it's still not the real deal.

01:47:59.000 The real deal is the one that hooks up to a computer.

01:48:02.000 But I saw that video where you get to look around.

01:48:05.000 It's completely three-dimensional.

01:48:07.000 The guy playing the piano, have you seen that one?

01:48:08.000 Yeah, it's mind-blowing.

01:48:09.000 I've worn both.

01:48:10.000 The Valve has their Vive, and then you have the Oculus Rift.

01:48:14.000 Sony has theirs.

01:48:16.000 What's the best one?

01:48:18.000 They're all bleeding edge.

01:48:22.000 To me, they're all at the same level.

01:48:24.000 They all have their different things.

01:48:25.000 One has more refresh rate, one has higher resolution, one has the hand tracking, so you can move your hands and stuff.

01:48:31.000 It's such a new technology.

01:48:32.000 They're all making great strides.

01:48:35.000 No matter what one you're playing on, the experience is so hard to describe.

01:48:39.000 I'm going to do it injustice right now, but it's like you really are in a different world.

01:48:43.000 I played a simulation where I was standing in this...

01:48:48.000 It was like a jail cell, like a jail hall.

01:48:50.000 And there's this T-Rex.

01:48:52.000 You hear it walking and it comes around the corner.

01:48:54.000 And it starts walking towards you and is roaring.

01:48:56.000 It's super high fidelity.

01:48:57.000 And you can look around.

01:48:58.000 You can move.

01:48:58.000 You can move around.

01:48:59.000 And when he started walking at me, I had this visceral, natural instinct to duck down.

01:49:04.000 And then it detected that I had ducked it down because it can have the motion tracking like the Wii remotes do.

01:49:09.000 And so he leaned down and looked at me and roared in my face, and then he walked over me.

01:49:13.000 And I realized that I've never had that reaction from a normal game, where I've had to physically move in my space.

01:49:19.000 But that made me have this response, and I felt my heart rate going up, that was so much more immersive.

01:49:26.000 And you have to experience it.

01:49:27.000 Have you ever had a chance to go to a trade show, like Penny Arcade Expo, PAX South or PAX East?

01:49:33.000 Go to these trade shows and wait in line.

01:49:35.000 It's worth it.

01:49:36.000 Try it out, because it's such an incredible experience.

01:49:38.000 Well, I know John Carmack is involved with some Oculus Rift stuff, because we were tweeting back and forth, and I've been to Id Studios way back when, before Quake 3 was released.

01:49:49.000 I got to play an early version of it with Tim Willits and all those guys online, or on a LAN, rather. 0.77

01:49:56.000 It was really fucking cool. 0.92

01:49:58.000 But they're doing some crazy Oculus Rift shit, and I just can only imagine what that's going to be like. 0.97

01:50:04.000 The first Oculus game we make, I'll bring you in. 0.95

01:50:06.000 I want you to see it.

01:50:07.000 I want you to tell us what you think.

01:50:09.000 Well, the first-person shooter in Oculus Rift would probably, if you can get some sort of an omnidirectional treadmill that feels realistic.

01:50:16.000 They have those, too, already.

01:50:17.000 Yes, I've seen them.

01:50:18.000 It's tough.

01:50:18.000 It's like a workout.

01:50:19.000 It's really hard to be.

01:50:21.000 Which is great because, you know, one of the things about Dance Dance Revolution, that game that's really popular in arcades, one of the cool side effects is a lot of people lost weight.

01:50:30.000 Like a shitload of weight.

01:50:32.000 Because they were gamers, but they got really into playing this one game.

01:50:36.000 And this game requires you to jump around and bounce around. 0.99

01:50:38.000 And they were burning off all these fucking crazy calories. 0.96

01:50:41.000 And there's... 0.94

01:50:43.000 I mean, I think there's a whole website dedicated to Dance Dance Revolution weight loss. 0.96

01:50:48.000 Like, it's showing all these people that have lost, like, fucking 60, 70, 80 pounds just playing this silly game. 0.96

01:50:55.000 Because it's fun. 0.99

01:50:55.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:50:56.000 And they're having fun doing it.

01:50:57.000 Now think about a first-person shooter, like, Unreal-style, right?

01:51:01.000 And you're running around these corridors.

01:51:03.000 You've got an Oculus Rift headset on.

01:51:06.000 Omni-directional treadmill, which means you can go left, right, back, forth, 45-degree angles, up and down. 1.00

01:51:13.000 Fuck, man! 1.00

01:51:14.000 And then a lot of these treadmills, they operate on you pushing them. 1.00

01:51:19.000 Right.

01:51:19.000 Because they don't move like a treadmill where you have to keep up with it.

01:51:23.000 Right.

01:51:24.000 It's your footprints are actually forcing it to move, so there's a little bit of resistance to it.

01:51:28.000 The one that I saw, I didn't get to try it though, is they had this thing, this almost sock thing you put on.

01:51:34.000 Instead of a shoe, it's like a boot that's super soft material.

01:51:36.000 And then rather than the thing being a track that you have to move and have all that resistance, because that was harder to move, it was this really slick surface.

01:51:43.000 So you're still bound in, but you just glide your feet over it.

01:51:46.000 Oh.

01:51:47.000 Yeah, and so you like polish it up like almost like a like a bowling alley you would and then so You're almost like walking in place and gliding and because you still have that harness holding up you don't slip and fall And that was kind of interesting too.

01:51:59.000 That is kind of interesting I would think one would be better for fitness.

01:52:03.000 Yeah, absolutely But we could probably get some really good workouts in with an omnidirectional treadmill with resistance and I know there's one that they're working on that I had heard is fucking terrifying.

01:52:15.000 It's based on Ridley Scott's Alien, the first Alien movie.

01:52:20.000 The game?

01:52:20.000 The game.

01:52:21.000 Yeah.

01:52:22.000 Yes.

01:52:23.000 Have you seen it?

01:52:23.000 I've seen the clips, yeah.

01:52:24.000 I've heard it's fucking horrifying. 0.98

01:52:26.000 Oh, yeah. 0.99

01:52:26.000 Where people are worried that people are literally going to get heart attacks. 0.99

01:52:29.000 Yes.

01:52:30.000 And you have to duck, and you actually see it walking around, and it's trying to find you, and you physically have to duck and move your body down so that it can't see you in the game.

01:52:39.000 And when it finds you, it roars at you.

01:52:40.000 And you watch the YouTube videos.

01:52:41.000 The Fine Brothers.

01:52:42.000 It's the Fine Brothers YouTube channel where they have these teens react videos.

01:52:46.000 They'll put teenagers in chairs. 1.00

01:52:49.000 They'll film them reacting to these things. 0.97

01:52:50.000 It's so fucking funny to watch them. 0.94

01:52:53.000 They're clawing at their eyes trying to get the thing off because it was terrifying. 0.97

01:52:58.000 Yeah.

01:52:59.000 Well, isn't this like sort of a glimpse of what's going to happen when they figure out how to make some sort of, not just goggles that you put on, like what they're doing with Oculus Rift, but some sort of a neural interface where they bring you into this world.

01:53:13.000 Would you ever want to leave that world?

01:53:15.000 That's the question, right?

01:53:16.000 I mean, is that where we're going?

01:53:18.000 Maybe.

01:53:18.000 I mean...

01:53:19.000 When we're talking about artificial life, maybe that's how artificial life is going to co-opt us.

01:53:23.000 They go, look, man, we got this thing.

01:53:25.000 You know, you don't need to live like this, baby.

01:53:29.000 You know, I mean, how many people are out there just can't get people to touch them?

01:53:32.000 They're so sad, so depressed.

01:53:35.000 Why would you do that when you can be Robin Hood?

01:53:37.000 Right.

01:53:37.000 You can literally, okay, this is the people.

01:53:39.000 We're watching a video of the people wearing the Oculus Rift. 1.00

01:53:44.000 Oh, fuck it. 1.00

01:53:47.000 Turn it up, Jamie. 1.00

01:53:53.000 Oh my god, this is amazing.

01:53:56.000 Oh, first of all, it moves like a really high-level 3D shooter with high resolution, but it's total Oculus Rift.

01:54:06.000 Oh my god, it's running.

01:54:08.000 It's running at you.

01:54:10.000 Does that mean it got her?

01:54:11.000 Yeah.

01:54:13.000 Oh, that's hilarious.

01:54:16.000 And then when it eats them, it happens in front of them.

01:54:22.000 They can look down and see their intestines getting ripped out.

01:54:25.000 Oh, terrific. 0.99

01:54:27.000 She's like, damn it, I just got jacked. 0.99

01:54:30.000 Whoa. 0.99

01:54:31.000 So when that little face is on the corner, does that mean it got you?

01:54:36.000 Yeah, it's a little bit buggy too.

01:54:38.000 They were playing like a glitchy build and whatnot.

01:54:40.000 We're seeing the future, right? 0.98

01:54:42.000 I mean, if you go back to Pong, and you look at what you've got now with Bombshell, and you look at this, and you go, what the fuck is that? 0.94

01:54:49.000 I mean, Pong was what? 0.90

01:54:51.000 80?

01:54:52.000 70?

01:54:53.000 Yeah, a long time ago.

01:54:55.000 I don't even remember.

01:54:56.000 I don't know.

01:54:57.000 I don't remember what year it was.

01:54:59.000 What year do you think Pong was?

01:55:00.000 Take a guess, Jamie.

01:55:02.000 60s?

01:55:03.000 No, really?

01:55:06.000 I guess 72?

01:55:07.000 1972. Okay.

01:55:09.000 So, think of that.

01:55:11.000 Think of 72. And now think of what's going to be like 40 years from now.

01:55:17.000 And how quick we got here.

01:55:18.000 Yeah, that's the thing.

01:55:19.000 40 years sounds like a long time. 0.99

01:55:21.000 43 years ain't shit. 0.99

01:55:22.000 No. 0.99

01:55:23.000 Well, especially if you extrapolate.

01:55:25.000 You look at what's going on today.

01:55:27.000 It's exponential.

01:55:28.000 It's not just 40 years from now. 1.00

01:55:32.000 Yeah, fuck 40 years. 1.00

01:55:33.000 42. Oh, I see. 1.00

01:55:54.000 Yeah, it's just like a bunch of 2d objects put together and anyway, but this this Virtual reality was something that always had been talked about a long time ago It was always like the thing like one day.

01:56:06.000 We're gonna have virtual reality I mean it was it was a big plot line in movies and like the 1980s, but the technology wasn't there but now the technology is finally caught up to it and Again, this is just the beginning.

01:56:20.000 It's going to get crazier than this, right?

01:56:22.000 I would hope so.

01:56:23.000 I would assume so for my future.

01:56:25.000 What I want to know is how is it going to change?

01:56:28.000 You know how Netflix has changed the way Hollywood and how TV shows are made?

01:56:33.000 I want to know what those...

01:56:35.000 I can't wait to find out and experience through it the effect that's going to have on games.

01:56:40.000 Well, how about movies?

01:56:42.000 There was a movie that they did a trailer for that was in Oculus Rift.

01:56:48.000 A movie in Oculus Rift?

01:56:50.000 Yeah.

01:56:50.000 It was completely three-dimensional.

01:56:53.000 You could get inside the movie, you could move around and watch things happen from different places inside the movie.

01:56:59.000 That's incredible.

01:57:00.000 Yeah, and I saw it online, and they were just sort of demonstrating it. 0.96

01:57:06.000 It might just be like a proof of concept sort of a thing, but they were doing it in real time, and this person was moving around, watching all this shit happen. 0.61

01:57:16.000 If you go to a movie theater, right?

01:57:19.000 You're sitting in a theater, it's this big whole, big giant place, and everybody's sitting down eating popcorn and watching this flat screen in front of you where everything takes place.

01:57:27.000 What if instead of that, you enter into a warehouse, and that warehouse is the film?

01:57:33.000 You strap on these goggles, and they have an environment with wind and heat and all sorts of different three-dimensional environmental effects.

01:57:42.000 Right.

01:57:43.000 That can allow you, like, different terrain.

01:57:45.000 Like, maybe the terrain is somehow or another pliable or movable or liquid that can change what the effects of it are.

01:57:55.000 Yeah.

01:57:56.000 And you could walk around in the Shire. 0.93

01:57:59.000 I mean, you could be in the fucking Hobbit land, climbing the hill to where Bilbo Baggins' house is, opening the door, looking at him, and he's telling you to come on inside. 0.97

01:58:09.000 What?! 0.99

01:58:10.000 This isn't unrealistic, right?

01:58:12.000 Oh, it's already here.

01:58:13.000 There's the one proof of concept video, maybe Jamie can find it, where it's, with the Oculus Rift, they created a third-person shooter.

01:58:21.000 So it's a real-life third-person game where the guy has a wide-angle camera mounted in a backpack on his back that is back here, so it looks down and it can see himself standing there.

01:58:32.000 And he's wearing these 3D glasses and it's doing the head tracking in real time.

01:58:38.000 There's maybe like an 80 millisecond delay.

01:58:39.000 So almost imperceivable.

01:58:42.000 So he's seeing his own, he's literally living an out-of-body experience through Oculus Rift and he's walking around like he's a third-person avatar through the world.

01:58:51.000 Wow!

01:58:52.000 Right.

01:58:52.000 You know, some games allow you to go from third person to first person.

01:58:55.000 Yeah.

01:58:55.000 To allow you to switch back and forth.

01:58:57.000 That's going to be, like, to look at your own hands in the game on the trigger.

01:59:02.000 You know, you can see your hand pulling.

01:59:05.000 That's what the Vive was, too.

01:59:07.000 And Oculus, I think Oculus came out with a peripheral as well now where you hold these little things in your hands.

01:59:12.000 And now the head tracking device can track, or the cameras can track where your hands are in relation to your eyes, so you can hold a gun up and see the gun that you're holding.

01:59:20.000 Yeah, totally, man.

01:59:21.000 Makes sense.

01:59:21.000 Why wouldn't you?

01:59:22.000 You know, I mean, if your game, I mean, that would be so much more immersive.

01:59:26.000 If you had a game that required you to shoot at monsters with a shotgun, and you had a fake shotgun, but it was heavy, like a metal shotgun, it had a real cocking mechanism, and you could really see the shells eject, you had to put new shells in, maybe.

01:59:40.000 Maybe you have shells in your pocket, and that's how you reload.

01:59:43.000 Maybe you have a bucket of shells. 1.00

01:59:46.000 Fuck, it could be awesome. 1.00

01:59:47.000 You've seen HoloLens, right? 1.00

01:59:49.000 No.

01:59:50.000 HoloLens is, in a lot of ways, even better.

01:59:52.000 Have I seen it?

01:59:54.000 Oh! 0.60

01:59:55.000 Where they had aliens breaking through the walls of your home.

02:00:00.000 So it's not goggles, it's like a lens, and so you still see your space, but it's like as soon as you put them on, you could look at that wall, and now suddenly an alien can break through the wall, and it actually makes it look like your wall is tearing apart and aliens climbing through it.

02:00:14.000 And then you're shooting at the alien in your own house at your own wall.

02:00:18.000 So it's bringing video games into your world instead of putting, transplanting you into another world.

02:00:23.000 HoloLens is bringing that game experience into wherever your space is.

02:00:27.000 I forgot the name of it.

02:00:28.000 Yeah, but I do remember that now.

02:00:30.000 And then there was the other one.

02:00:32.000 What was it?

02:00:32.000 Magic Leap?

02:00:34.000 Yeah, that's the other one where they're showing 3D holograms, like a little elephant dancing in your hand.

02:00:40.000 They've actually shown that Magic Leap demonstrations have come out recently.

02:00:44.000 I'll try to find it for you real quick.

02:00:45.000 Yeah?

02:00:46.000 They've shown some, yeah.

02:00:47.000 Like a real demonstration?

02:00:49.000 Yeah, concept.

02:00:51.000 Well, they had one that was fascinating. 0.80

02:00:53.000 It was this little girl sitting on her bed watching a four-inch high ballerina spinning around her bed like it was a real ballerina, like it was fucking Tinkerbell. 0.99

02:01:01.000 Oh my god. 0.99

02:01:02.000 Yeah.

02:01:02.000 And again, what does that do to a generation of mind-blowing new inspiration and imagination that no other generation like ours had?

02:01:10.000 Yeah.

02:01:10.000 And where does it lead?

02:01:11.000 Because obviously, they're going to take it to the next place as they become more educated and they go to school and they learn how to create this kind of content and...

02:01:20.000 They learn how to evolve it and make it better and make the technology better. 0.99

02:01:25.000 Fucking Christ, man. 1.00

02:01:26.000 We're in for some weird shit. 1.00

02:01:28.000 It's a good time to be alive. 0.99

02:01:29.000 It's amazing.

02:01:30.000 It's the best time to be alive ever. 0.99

02:01:32.000 And we have so much shit to complain about, though. 1.00

02:01:34.000 Yeah, we've always had shit to complain about. 1.00

02:01:36.000 Oh, this is real? 0.99

02:01:37.000 Yeah, it says that this was shot through the Magic Leap.

02:01:40.000 Right.

02:01:40.000 Okay, play it.

02:01:41.000 Like two weeks ago.

02:01:42.000 Whoa.

02:01:43.000 Whoa, October 14th, 2015. No special effects.

02:01:50.000 Or compositing were used.

02:01:55.000 And it's not all glitchity.

02:01:56.000 It's not like having trouble.

02:01:57.000 It's so smooth with every motion of the...

02:02:00.000 So that's underneath the table.

02:02:02.000 We're looking at this robot thing.

02:02:04.000 This is super cool.

02:02:06.000 Oh, whoa!

02:02:07.000 So this girl's sitting at a desk, and she's, uh... 0.99

02:02:11.000 Excellent posture, by the way. 0.99

02:02:12.000 And as she's sitting there, there is a fucking solar system floating over her desk. 0.99

02:02:18.000 But it looks real. 0.99

02:02:19.000 Well, it looks realistic, at least.

02:02:22.000 There's trails.

02:02:23.000 That's what they're trying to show, is the focus.

02:02:25.000 It reacts to the depth of field of the real world.

02:02:28.000 Yeah.

02:02:29.000 Whoa.

02:02:30.000 So, as you get close to it, if you look at it...

02:02:34.000 Like, you can focus on Earth.

02:02:36.000 Like, it's our solar system.

02:02:37.000 There's our sun.

02:02:38.000 And it's all the planets are the right size and the proper order.

02:02:42.000 And just imagine the applications for this.

02:02:44.000 Imagine when a science teacher can put this in a classroom and let you, like, walk around a universe or a galaxy and interact with the objects in, like, your actual space.

02:02:54.000 What I'm confused is, what's the projection method?

02:02:56.000 How are they doing that?

02:02:58.000 It's a lens that they're wearing.

02:02:59.000 Correct me if I'm wrong, Jamie, I don't know this one.

02:03:01.000 But I don't think it is.

02:03:02.000 They are not letting anyone know, I think, as of right now, because it's super high concept and they're not sharing.

02:03:08.000 Because that girl's playing it all cool. 1.00

02:03:10.000 She wasn't even looking at the solar system right next to her. 0.99

02:03:13.000 It's kind of horseshit.

02:03:14.000 If that was like HoloLens' technology, they had the camera looking at through the filter that would be projecting that into the world.

02:03:21.000 Yeah.

02:03:21.000 So you still have to wear a device, I would assume.

02:03:23.000 I would assume.

02:03:24.000 Okay.

02:03:25.000 I would assume, yeah.

02:03:26.000 Because there was one image that they had where it was a floating whale.

02:03:32.000 They were on the beach and they were looking up and above the beach, like where the sand is, there was a whale that was floating in the sky.

02:03:40.000 I could only imagine that that would be the case if you were wearing some goggles or something like that.

02:03:44.000 How are you going to project something in the air and have it look completely three-dimensional and solid?

02:03:51.000 Yeah.

02:03:52.000 Look at this.

02:03:53.000 This is the one?

02:03:54.000 Oh yeah, I did see this clip.

02:03:56.000 Oh my god.

02:03:58.000 But here's the thing, so weren't all of them, in the YouTube clip I saw, all the people in the room were reacting too.

02:04:04.000 Exactly, but here you're seeing a bunch of kids in a gymnasium that are watching this whale fly through the air, but the kids don't have anything on their eyes that we can see.

02:04:13.000 Right. 0.99

02:04:14.000 See, this is kind of bullshit. 0.99

02:04:16.000 They'll tell us eventually, but obviously this is some stuff they're working on right now. 0.99

02:04:23.000 Yeah, when I saw the clip, I assumed that they were just reacting because they had said, oh, now there's a whale jumping out and just react so that it makes the viral video on you.

02:04:31.000 That's what I thought happened.

02:04:32.000 Might be. 1.00

02:04:34.000 Fuck. 1.00

02:04:36.000 That's weird. 1.00

02:04:37.000 You know, it's weird to be alive now and see all this stuff happening and just the speculation of what it's going to be like in a decade.

02:04:44.000 Well, you're a little bit older than me.

02:04:47.000 I'm 48. You're 48, so you got to experience...

02:04:50.000 How old are you?

02:04:51.000 28. I'm a lot older than you, bitch. 1.00

02:04:53.000 You got to experience what time was like as an adult before all this stuff. 0.99

02:04:58.000 So even what was your perspective?

02:04:59.000 Yeah, well, I remember no internet.

02:05:01.000 In 1994, I got my first computer.

02:05:05.000 It was a...

02:05:06.000 An old Mac, back when Macs only had tan.

02:05:10.000 Those boxes, you know, I had one of those.

02:05:13.000 And I remember thinking, what?

02:05:15.000 How crazy is this internet thing?

02:05:17.000 You've got mail!

02:05:19.000 You know, go on AOL and look around.

02:05:21.000 It's been completely fascinating to watch that evolve and watch it change.

02:05:26.000 And a lot of it happened while I was on news radio.

02:05:33.000 The guys that I worked with, a lot of the writers, were, like, heavily into video games.

02:05:38.000 And those guys got me addicted to Quake.

02:05:41.000 It was Quake 2 at the time, because they had developed a local area network.

02:05:44.000 They had installed a LAN in their office, and they had spent a shitload of time.

02:05:50.000 They're supposed to be writing.

02:05:51.000 They would play games until 2 o'clock in the morning and then start writing.

02:05:55.000 But it was so crazy.

02:05:57.000 I had never seen anything like it.

02:06:00.000 And that's how I became massively addicted, but also addicted to the internet.

02:06:03.000 And that's when I started going online and finding out about websites and reading things and realizing you can get your news online.

02:06:11.000 I was like, this is amazing.

02:06:13.000 You could read the news?

02:06:15.000 And then, like, you get the news in real time.

02:06:17.000 Then I was thinking, well, you don't have to wait till the morning for the paper to come out.

02:06:19.000 You just wait for the website to refresh.

02:06:22.000 And then it got smaller, and it kept getting smaller, and you have it in your pocket at any moment.

02:06:25.000 You can get notified when news happens.

02:06:27.000 Yeah.

02:06:28.000 That's got to be...

02:06:29.000 See, I think you and even me in a lot of ways, because I remember a time before that, too.

02:06:33.000 I was younger, but I remember when the internet was really getting into our house.

02:06:37.000 So I feel like we were, like, in a great...

02:06:40.000 A great generation for perspective.

02:06:43.000 And not to go back to all that stuff again, but it's like the next generation, even my younger sister's generation, they didn't have all that perspective necessarily.

02:06:54.000 And now I have little toddlers and nephews who are growing up with iPads and they're doing stuff sitting on the couch after school on their iPad.

02:07:03.000 And so I'm just worried like...

02:07:06.000 And what do you think?

02:07:07.000 Do you think you and I are in the best generation for perspective?

02:07:11.000 Or do you think that it's better to be a generation now?

02:07:15.000 Or a generation before you and I? Well, I think if you want to compare the two, there's no way they're going to understand what it was like to not have the internet.

02:07:23.000 They're not going to understand it.

02:07:25.000 It's going to be a concept.

02:07:26.000 It's like us understanding what it was like before written language.

02:07:28.000 We're never going to get it.

02:07:30.000 We can pretend all we like.

02:07:32.000 We're never going to really know what that's like.

02:07:35.000 But I think the leap between no written language to written language took so much longer to have an impact than what we're experiencing in just a couple of decades.

02:07:46.000 In a couple of decades, the world has changed radically, and it's happened right in front of our eyes.

02:07:51.000 And I think that human beings have a really difficult time recognizing change while it's taking place right in front of them.

02:07:58.000 I think it just seems normal to us.

02:08:00.000 But I think when history looks back at this era, they're going to say, this is the craziest moment in time.

02:08:06.000 This was when it all began.

02:08:07.000 This was the birth of the machine.

02:08:09.000 This was when it came alive, when information became viral for the first time, like literally viral, like became almost a living organism and spread. 0.53

02:08:19.000 And there was hiccups and there was Justine Sacco and Josh Olin and there was all sorts of weird shit that happened along the way and virus. 0.98

02:08:26.000 Viral videos and fucking that... 0.99

02:08:30.000 What is that fucking guy from Korea? 1.00

02:08:32.000 Gangnam Style? 1.00

02:08:33.000 There's all sorts of...

02:08:34.000 Strange things have happened.

02:08:37.000 You know?

02:08:37.000 Strange things.

02:08:38.000 Hamster damps.

02:08:39.000 There's been a lot of weird stuff that's happened because of the internet.

02:08:43.000 But ultimately, it's amazing.

02:08:45.000 It's more good than bad.

02:08:46.000 Oh yeah, way more good.

02:08:48.000 I think people are more informed, more educated, and I think they're kinder.

02:08:51.000 I really do.

02:08:52.000 I think despite all these cuts that get crazy over stuff, I think there's more good stuff coming from people online.

02:08:59.000 It's also the communities that you foster.

02:09:02.000 The people that I'm in contact with, Yeah.

02:09:21.000 You're going to find that with video games.

02:09:24.000 You're going to have like-minded communities, and some of them are going to be toxic.

02:09:28.000 But for the most part, what I encounter and the people that I interact with online, incredibly positive.

02:09:35.000 Even criticisms, like the criticisms that I've experienced online, for the most part, the vast majority of them are polite.

02:09:43.000 Vast majority.

02:09:44.000 You know, I think that's rare.

02:09:47.000 I think also people are learning how to use social media and the internet and this newfound ability.

02:09:54.000 They're learning how to do it.

02:09:55.000 And some people do it wrong.

02:09:57.000 I mean, there's some people that have like essentially attack blogs. 0.98

02:10:00.000 You go to their blog, it's just them shitting on one person or shitting on another person. 0.97

02:10:04.000 And why are they doing that? 0.99

02:10:05.000 Well, they're doing that because they can.

02:10:06.000 This is the first time they've ever had a voice in their whole life and they're going to use it to displace some of the anger and hate that they have in their own life and just throw it out there in the world.

02:10:16.000 And these are all like hiccups and growing pains and I think it's amazing.

02:10:22.000 I really, really do.

02:10:23.000 That's why I do what I do.

02:10:24.000 That's why I like to still be talking to as many people as I can and changing and influencing in a positive way, hopefully, as many lives as I can because just like the universe, you know, I'm a part of it.

02:10:35.000 I'm in the middle of it and I want to be a part of it and I want you to be a part of it.

02:10:39.000 That's why I love comedians too and I respect comedians because they talk about these kinds of social issues with such, you know, just absolutely brazenness and they don't care Most people don't care what other people think about it and they make they make you laugh at the same time that they make you really think and be thoughtful about it so I really respect what you do and and You know kind of paving the way for that because you you were doing that in an era before there was social media So well,

02:11:06.000 it was easier before there was social media you were eating is attacked for it It was limited to one room at a time, right?

02:11:12.000 You got attacked in that room, you know, but I think people had less of a They had less of this entitlement to outrage that people have now.

02:11:24.000 And I think that there has been some attacks on comedians that have gone sort of the way that, you know, you see these attacks on people for whatever reason in social media, whether it's the Lion Killer guy or Justine Saka or you, there's going to be these targets that exist.

02:11:41.000 And they have occasionally gone after comedians.

02:11:44.000 And for the most part, comedians have vehemently And aggressively supported and defended themselves.

02:11:55.000 And one another.

02:11:56.000 Yeah, and defended one another.

02:11:58.000 It's a super important thing.

02:11:59.000 Daniel Tosh had an incident that there was a few comedians that actually turned on him, and they were ostracized by the community.

02:12:06.000 People will never respect them or forget that they, for social media brownie points, they tried to pretend that what he did was some outrageous thing.

02:12:15.000 Okay.

02:12:16.000 By cracking jokes.

02:12:17.000 So it happens everywhere, because that was the one thing that I wish would have, if I could have changed anything about what happened with me, it would have been that I would have loved for more of my peers to come out and been like, this is wrong. 0.99

02:12:27.000 I would have loved for more people to have had the gonads to come out and say, Fuck that. 1.00

02:12:33.000 He didn't do anything wrong publicly. 1.00

02:12:34.000 They all came to me privately, man.

02:12:36.000 Empathizing, right?

02:12:36.000 But as you would expect friends to do.

02:12:38.000 But I would have loved for people to have been like, you know what?

02:12:40.000 That's not okay.

02:12:42.000 Because I see that all the time in the comic community where that's how you fight that.

02:12:45.000 That's how you get back against that. 1.00

02:12:47.000 And that's how you make sure that that shit doesn't resurge and take over. 1.00

02:12:51.000 But we have to, because without that, the art form is shit. 1.00

02:12:54.000 I mean, it really doesn't even exist. 0.98

02:12:56.000 The art form of stand-up comedy depends upon freedom.

02:13:00.000 Because you're going to say things that are offensive, you know, that you don't even mean, because the offensive things will be funny, you know?

02:13:06.000 And you've got to know when you mean them or when you don't mean them. 0.91

02:13:10.000 I went through this whole bit in my last special where I was explaining, like, this is a Tracy Morgan bit that he got in trouble for, because he said that if his son was gay, he would stab him. 1.00

02:13:19.000 And then I'm like, well, he also said he would eat a mile of shit to get to Beyonce's ass. 0.99

02:13:24.000 Do you understand he said both of those things in the same set? 1.00

02:13:27.000 Like, you gotta, like, look at what he's doing.

02:13:31.000 He's saying things that are outrageous that are not real.

02:13:34.000 He's not in court giving an affidavit. 0.99

02:13:36.000 He's making a joke because he knows that some parents are shitheads when their sons come out to them, right? 0.99

02:13:41.000 And that's the joke that he was making, and I understand that, and you hear that. 0.98

02:13:45.000 I don't think that's what he was doing.

02:13:47.000 No? 0.99

02:13:47.000 I think he was pretending that he would stab his son if he was gay because it's outrageous. 0.99

02:13:51.000 I don't think he was saying... 0.99

02:13:52.000 Or it's as simple as that.

02:13:53.000 Yeah, I don't think it was, like, a social stand...

02:13:56.000 Like he was taking a stand on social issues and mocking those parents that would do that.

02:14:01.000 No, I think he's pretending that he would do that.

02:14:05.000 But the last thing that he was doing is suggesting that's okay.

02:14:10.000 Yes, exactly.

02:14:13.000 You know, I mean, people...

02:14:16.000 People have to look at what stand-up comedy is the same way they look at movies.

02:14:19.000 If you watch Goodfellas, okay, nobody really got shot when they made that movie.

02:14:23.000 It was fake.

02:14:25.000 It was entertainment.

02:14:27.000 And if you listen to rap music, same thing, okay?

02:14:30.000 They're not really shooting cops.

02:14:32.000 So what people think is they argue that by fetishizing that, by pretending that, that we're somehow changing society.

02:14:42.000 Adjusting culture.

02:14:43.000 And I completely reject that theory, right?

02:14:45.000 In video games, we get that a lot with violence in video games.

02:14:47.000 There was a lot, a lot of lawsuits actually went to the Supreme Court in California over California versus the EMA. And thankfully, video games won.

02:14:57.000 It was like a seven to two vote.

02:14:59.000 But what they were arguing is that violent video games can lead to these mass shootings, can lead to violence in your life, lead to aggression, despite not a single study supporting any of that evidence.

02:15:08.000 And I come to realize that video games as an industry, we're just younger.

02:15:13.000 As an art form, we're younger.

02:15:16.000 We're a very immature industry, just like movies, just like music.

02:15:20.000 Eminem and Marilyn Manson went through the same scrutiny back when they were having violent and vulgar rap lyrics, right?

02:15:25.000 Before them, Ozzy Osbourne.

02:15:27.000 People were blaming them for kids killing people.

02:15:31.000 And every time we come to realize, you know, it's probably not real.

02:15:34.000 It's probably not the case.

02:15:35.000 And no matter what someone writes in a manifesto or what someone, you know, some study person might think, you know, at some university, there's nothing that suggests that.

02:15:46.000 And if anything, there's data that suggests that, you know, these things as mediums are releases.

02:15:50.000 They lower aggression.

02:15:51.000 They make people happier and better people overall.

02:15:56.000 Yeah, the release.

02:15:58.000 There's this idea that watching something violent and watching something sexual and watching these things that are horrific, they release this anxiety and they release the desire to actually do those things.

02:16:11.000 And that you can somehow or another By, you know, by viewing those, alleviate those issues in your own mind.

02:16:18.000 I used to work on Call of Duty, and so we, of course, a game like that has a close interaction with the armed services, with our militaries.

02:16:27.000 And every time that I met with them, they would tell me stories about things like...

02:16:32.000 You know, so vets would talk about how they deal with, like, PTSD. They deal with adjusting to society by playing Call of Duty.

02:16:39.000 Or people on deployment in, like, FOBs.

02:16:42.000 Like, you know, Boots in the Sand would talk about going to, you know, going in and playing these things.

02:16:46.000 Because they would have little, almost like internet cafes.

02:16:49.000 They'd have little tents set up where they would go in and play the games on workstations.

02:16:54.000 And we actually would send sometimes Xboxes out to them and help them get through that stuff.

02:17:00.000 And again, to them, it was like that was their way of keeping a sense of sanity and normalcy to their otherwise hell, the hell they had to go through.

02:17:09.000 And those stories, they always ring home to me, and I realize that no matter how much...

02:17:15.000 But again, it's just perspective.

02:17:17.000 It still tears me down to think that we're still debating these things.

02:17:21.000 We're still debating whether they're violent video games or this and that. 0.99

02:17:23.000 Here's why the debate is bullshit. 0.82

02:17:25.000 Would it affect you? 1.00

02:17:27.000 If you went and saw a violent video game or a violent movie, would you go out and commit violence because of it?

02:17:32.000 No, you're a grown adult.

02:17:33.000 So what are you doing with video games?

02:17:35.000 Are we raising children with them? 1.00

02:17:37.000 No, you're raising your fucking kid, okay? 1.00

02:17:39.000 And if your kid grows up to be a suicide bomber or a mass murderer or a rapist, you can't blame movies, man. 1.00

02:17:47.000 It's not the movie's fault.

02:17:48.000 There were way more influential factors in that kid's life that led him to where he was than the movie he watched.

02:17:53.000 Exactly.

02:17:53.000 And usually whatever angst that they have is, you know, they're seeking some sort of a relief through those video games.

02:18:02.000 And if they have fucked up thoughts inside their head, it's not Quentin Tarantino didn't put him in there. 0.69

02:18:07.000 Ozzy Osbourne didn't put him in there. 0.95

02:18:09.000 Call of Duty didn't put them in there.

02:18:11.000 It just didn't.

02:18:12.000 It's not the case.

02:18:13.000 They can live vicariously through those horrible things and not want to commit crimes.

02:18:19.000 And the argument can be made for that sexually, too. 0.98

02:18:22.000 There's a lot of people that believe that porn, even crazy porn, alleviates people's desires and need to do fucked up things sexually. 0.95

02:18:31.000 Or to do the thing that they watched in the porn, exactly. 0.95

02:18:35.000 And that's a good thing.

02:18:37.000 That's not desensitizing them.

02:18:39.000 Again, that all comes from a place, I think, just lack of understanding.

02:18:43.000 It comes from a place of closed-mindedness.

02:18:45.000 It's that confirmation bias.

02:18:46.000 You have a theory, and so you will look at the world through the stained-glass lenses of that theory, instead of looking at it objectively and understanding the data and what the data is telling you.

02:18:54.000 And you're always going to have examples where you can point the finger at that person and blame whatever influences from the media, whether it's music or games or films or anything, for their behavior and their actions.

02:19:11.000 But you've got to have to look at all the factors in their life.

02:19:14.000 And what percentage of the pie is the video game?

02:19:17.000 Is it even a sliver?

02:19:19.000 I mean, is it even a percent or two percent?

02:19:21.000 What about the 98% of... 0.99

02:19:23.000 Them getting sexually abused or beaten up or bullied or the fact their mom drank like a fish when they were in the womb, who the fuck knows what makes a broken person. 0.99

02:19:31.000 The idea that a person can be perfectly normal and then sit down and play Call of Duty and want to go fucking shoot up a mall, that's crazy talk. 0.99

02:19:39.000 And you as an adult producing a product that is supposed to be, at the very least, your parents are supposed to approve your use of it. 0.76

02:19:50.000 Right.

02:19:50.000 But most of it is like kids that are, you know, in their teens or older, they've formed their own personalities already.

02:19:59.000 You're not getting your personality from playing bombshell.

02:20:02.000 And even still, we still have rating systems, just like the movies have the MPAA. We still have the ESRB. We're still properly rating them and making sure that parents have to sign off if they're going to buy the thing with the kid.

02:20:13.000 They have to be there in the store.

02:20:14.000 You have to have a guard.

02:20:14.000 You know, we still have all those same systems just in case.

02:20:18.000 Right.

02:20:18.000 Because it's still good to be better safe than sorry, I agree, but not to the degree that you're removing an entire genre of game or genre of entertainment because of it.

02:20:27.000 That's being too safe.

02:20:28.000 And people should be allowed to vote with their pocketbook.

02:20:32.000 You should be able to vote with your wallet.

02:20:35.000 If you think that something's offensive, and you think Grand Theft Auto legitimizes robbery and violence, I don't want to be a part of that.

02:20:44.000 So this is what you do.

02:20:45.000 You just don't buy it.

02:20:46.000 It's real simple.

02:20:47.000 And let the open market decide. 0.98

02:20:49.000 And the idea that we're going to fucking nanny state the whole world, it's nonsense. 0.99

02:20:54.000 It's nonsense. 0.98

02:20:54.000 And I think video games have been the latest victim, or the latest in our culture, of something that Tipper Gore tried to do with rap music. 0.98

02:21:03.000 I mean, it's been done forever.

02:21:05.000 It's been done forever. 0.99

02:21:06.000 They've always tried to find a scapegoat for why people are fucked up. 1.00

02:21:09.000 But people are fucked up because people are fucked up. 1.00

02:21:11.000 Deal with it. 1.00

02:21:12.000 Yes.

02:21:12.000 Deal with it.

02:21:13.000 Face it.

02:21:14.000 We don't understand it, but that's okay.

02:21:15.000 We have more work to do to figure it out.

02:21:17.000 Don't just go to the easy thing, the easy explanation that makes you feel more comfortable at night.

02:21:22.000 Yeah, we're not talking about John Carpenter.

02:21:24.000 What is that movie he did where the people read the book, In the Mouth of Madness? 0.92

02:21:28.000 They read the book and they went fucking crazy for reading the book.

02:21:31.000 No, there's a giant number of people who play Call of Duty and never shoot anybody. 0.98

02:21:36.000 Okay, you got to take them into account.

02:21:37.000 You can't just say, well, this guy played Call of Duty and then he went on shot.

02:21:41.000 What else did he do?

02:21:42.000 Did that guy pee? 0.99

02:21:43.000 Well, when he pees, it made him go out and shoot people. 0.99

02:21:45.000 No more peeing. 0.99

02:21:45.000 Yeah, no more peeing. 0.99

02:21:46.000 Did he drink milk? 1.00

02:21:47.000 Well, fucking milk kills. 1.00

02:21:49.000 Milk's out there killing babies. 1.00

02:21:50.000 That's nonsense. 0.94

02:21:51.000 It's like everything causes cancer.

02:21:53.000 Everything causes cancer these days.

02:21:55.000 Well, everything causes death because we all die.

02:21:57.000 That's right.

02:21:57.000 So everything you do, you get online, that's causing death.

02:22:01.000 I think we worked on a lot of shit today, Josh. 1.00

02:22:03.000 I do, too. 0.99

02:22:03.000 I feel good about this podcast. 0.99

02:22:04.000 Thanks for letting me talk to you about it.

02:22:06.000 My pleasure, brother.

02:22:07.000 My pleasure.

02:22:07.000 And good luck with your game.

02:22:09.000 Good luck with Bombshell.

02:22:10.000 Thank you.

02:22:10.000 And everything else you do, man.

02:22:12.000 I really appreciate it.

02:22:13.000 It was a lot of fun.

02:22:13.000 Cheers, brother.

02:22:15.000 JD underscore...

02:22:17.000 What is it?

02:22:17.000 2020. What does that stand for?

02:22:20.000 It's funny.

02:22:21.000 There's a story.

02:22:21.000 I'll come on next time and tell you about it.

02:22:23.000 Okay.

02:22:23.000 Next time.

02:22:24.000 JD underscore 2020 on Twitter.

02:22:27.000 Josh Olin, ladies and gentlemen.

02:22:28.000 All right. 1.00

02:22:29.000 See you fuckers next week. 1.00

The Joe Rogan Experience - November 04, 2015

Joe Rogan Experience #719 - Josh Olin

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