The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #760 - Doug Duren & Nathan Ihde

00:00:00.000 In Creole, they would say Dubai.

00:00:03.000 Ladies and gentlemen, Doug Durin!

00:00:08.000 I always wanted to do that.

00:00:10.000 I never get a chance.

00:00:11.000 I always wanted you to do it, man.

00:00:13.000 My man.

00:00:13.000 And you brought your friend, Nathan Eyde.

00:00:16.000 Both of you guys escaped the winter of Wisconsin, which I'm representing right now.

00:00:19.000 Yeah!

00:00:20.000 Hunt to eat t-shirt.

00:00:22.000 And Ma Ting and Yanis Putelis, this is their company, and Ma Ting sent me a code for people if you want to use this.

00:00:28.000 If you go to hunttoeat.com, and I think the code word is just Joe Rogan, all in one word.

00:00:37.000 I'm going to find it in one second.

00:00:38.000 And if you do that, I think you get 10% off.

00:00:41.000 Hold on a second.

00:00:41.000 I'll find that real quick.

00:00:45.000 Yeah, Joe Rogan, all caps, 10% off.

00:00:49.000 Hunt Eat.

00:00:50.000 And some of them are license plates.

00:00:52.000 This one's the Wisconsin one.

00:00:54.000 It's just a circle.

00:00:55.000 It shows the state.

00:00:57.000 Little deer in it.

00:00:57.000 Little deer tracks around it.

00:00:59.000 Our friends, their company.

00:01:01.000 Great guys, man.

00:01:03.000 The best.

00:01:03.000 They really are.

00:01:04.000 They work for Steve Rinella at Meat Eater, and we know them well.

00:01:08.000 Doug Dern, of course, is my friend from Wisconsin, and he brought his friend, Nathan.

00:01:12.000 Idy.

00:01:13.000 Yeah.

00:01:14.000 And we're going to talk about some stuff.

00:01:16.000 Well, it's just good to see you anyway.

00:01:17.000 But we're also going to talk about this one thing that came out today that I tweeted that they found that there's a huge difference.

00:01:25.000 Not just a little difference.

00:01:27.000 Because people have always wondered, like, does it matter if you buy grass-fed food?

00:01:31.000 Does it matter if you buy...

00:01:33.000 I mean, does it really matter?

00:01:34.000 Well, apparently it does.

00:01:35.000 There's a new study that found clear differences between organic and non-organic meat and milk.

00:01:41.000 And this is the largest study of its kind.

00:01:43.000 An international team of experts led by Newcastle University in the UK has shown that both organic milk and organic meat contain around 50% more beneficial omega-3 fatty acids than conventionally produced products.

00:01:57.000 Which is pretty fascinating because a lot of people have speculated that it's all BS. That you go and you buy grass-fed this or grass-fed that.

00:02:04.000 It doesn't mean anything, but it means a lot.

00:02:08.000 Well, you know what's interesting to me about it is so much of it for me is intuitive.

00:02:13.000 I grew up with cattle and it makes sense that a ruminant, a cow, It eats grass.

00:02:23.000 You know, that's what it eats.

00:02:24.000 And you start putting all this other stuff into it, for instance, corn, soybeans, and that sort of thing, that's not what they were made to eat.

00:02:31.000 And so then you take that a step further and have it be, I think they're referring in this organic that they're talking about grass-fed.

00:02:39.000 And so they're eating what they're supposed to eat, not what we somehow along the way decided, well, this is what they're going to eat, corn or soybeans, because they'll put on that fat that we all like so much.

00:02:51.000 It speeds up the process.

00:02:53.000 Yeah, it does.

00:02:53.000 It speeds up the maturing process of the animal.

00:02:57.000 But not in a good way, necessarily.

00:03:00.000 It does so many bad things.

00:03:02.000 Yeah, it makes so much sense to me.

00:03:06.000 Just from a common sense level, that this is going to be the best thing for the animal, and then down the way it's going to be the best thing for us.

00:03:14.000 We're not forcing stuff on that animal that...

00:03:18.000 That they wouldn't normally be eating.

00:03:21.000 They aren't going to eat it by choice.

00:03:22.000 But I will tell you, the cows, they're not the ones I had when you were out there.

00:03:28.000 But if I go out with the cattle that I have now that I bought about a year ago, I bang two buckets together and they come running.

00:03:35.000 Because they know the food's coming.

00:03:36.000 Well, because they used to be fed corn.

00:03:39.000 Oh, so these are animals that you purchased that were already at maturity?

00:03:45.000 Yeah, they were bred cows.

00:03:46.000 So I was looking to get those cattle that I had when you were there, that we had when you were there, I sold.

00:03:52.000 We had a drought year, and hay prices went through the roof, and I had a barn and shed full of hay.

00:04:00.000 Which was pretty valuable and the cattle were still pretty valuable so I was able to sell those and then take the winter off and spend some time in Mexico.

00:04:15.000 Decided to get back into the game.

00:04:16.000 So now I've got a herd of Herefords that I bought last year.

00:04:19.000 A herd of what?

00:04:20.000 Herefords.

00:04:21.000 What's a Hereford?

00:04:21.000 Hereford is a breed that I think originated in Britain.

00:04:26.000 And white face, red animal.

00:04:29.000 So a lot of the ones that we had when you were there the last time were actually a Hereford cross.

00:04:34.000 So they were a Hereford originally, or their original brood cows were Herefords, and then we bred them to like a black Angus or a red Angus crossbred.

00:04:44.000 To get some hybrid vigor out of them and that sort of thing.

00:04:46.000 What is the difference?

00:04:48.000 What's the difference of?

00:04:49.000 Between different styles of cows or different breeds of cows?

00:04:53.000 Wow.

00:04:55.000 Everything from how they put on weight to how they look to...

00:05:00.000 Efficiency.

00:05:04.000 Yeah, the efficiency of how they'll put weight on.

00:05:09.000 If they're dairy cattle, like Guernseys and Jerseys and that sort of thing, they won't produce as much milk, but it'll have a real high butterfat content.

00:05:19.000 That's fascinating.

00:05:20.000 With the same food, feeding them the same thing, different cows produce different butterfats?

00:05:26.000 Yeah.

00:05:27.000 So Holsteins, which is sort of the traditional dairy cow, big black and white thing.

00:05:34.000 You know, you've seen them on everything.

00:05:36.000 They're a big animal, big bone, you know, really tall, big animal.

00:05:40.000 And they sort of have the ability to kind of eat They're not as picky eater.

00:05:46.000 They produce a lot of milk, but it'll have a lower butter fat.

00:05:49.000 I can't believe I'm talking about dairy.

00:05:51.000 I mean, I've been out of the dairy business since 1988. Well, it's fascinating stuff.

00:05:55.000 Most people have no idea.

00:05:57.000 I had no idea that different cows will produce a different level of dairy fat. 0.94

00:06:03.000 Oh, no, that's exactly right.

00:06:04.000 And then butter fat is what a farmer is paid on.

00:06:08.000 So 100 pounds, which is about 8 pounds to the gallon, And in milk, you're paid by the pound.

00:06:16.000 100 pounds of 3.5% butterfat, for instance, is not worth as much as 100 pounds of 4.5% butterfat.

00:06:25.000 So there's this whole calibration system they use to do that.

00:06:28.000 So, you know, milk's being tested all the time.

00:06:30.000 Both organic, grass-fed, managed pasture raised, and, you know, more...

00:06:39.000 Modern, if you will, the confined animal facilities where they're milking a thousand cows in a real small area, confining them in a very small area,

00:06:54.000 where Nate and I both grew up.

00:06:58.000 And you saw our farm.

00:07:00.000 A lot of pasture, fields, that sort of thing.

00:07:02.000 So the cattle are kind of walking around doing their thing out on pasture.

00:07:05.000 They come in in the evening.

00:07:07.000 You'd feed them sort of a supplement of it might be grain or it might be hay.

00:07:12.000 It might be these various things.

00:07:14.000 And it kind of depended.

00:07:16.000 And that all evolved over time and in my lifetime.

00:07:19.000 And you were always sort of aiming to get the most out of each one of those animals.

00:07:26.000 And depending on how you looked at the science, you know, people spent their whole life studying how to get the most out of a cow.

00:07:33.000 Depending on how you looked at that science, you made decisions about that.

00:07:38.000 Well, when I was a kid, there was a lot more of, and I mean a kid like in the 60s, in the early 60s, there was a lot more common sense involved.

00:07:46.000 And now it's much more, like in those big milking operations, that sort of thing, it's more science.

00:07:53.000 It's like, here's how we can get the most out of them.

00:07:55.000 So you remember this shift between what was like normal farming, normal dairy farming, normal meat cow farming, to this thing that we're seeing now that most people have a real big problem with, this factory farming installations where you have these cows jammed into these warehouses and chickens and the same thing with pigs and...

00:08:16.000 Those are the things that people have a real issue with when they see them on television, they see YouTube videos.

00:08:22.000 Do you remember this shift?

00:08:23.000 Oh, God, yeah.

00:08:25.000 So I'm 57 years old.

00:08:26.000 I was born in 1959. By the time I was old enough to drive a tractor, which is when you're about four years old, where I'm from.

00:08:33.000 You're driving a tractor at four?

00:08:35.000 Well, you're sitting there steering it anyway, and going through the field, and they're picking up...

00:08:39.000 I was six.

00:08:40.000 I was six when I jumped up.

00:08:42.000 So do you remember this?

00:08:43.000 Oh, yeah.

00:08:44.000 And so when I was a kid, do you remember where we shot, where we had that shooting range set up by my house?

00:08:50.000 That little kind of...

00:08:52.000 It was an old foundation there.

00:08:54.000 That was a chicken coop. 0.83

00:08:55.000 We had chickens there.

00:08:56.000 There was a greenery in between.

00:08:58.000 The little building that we fondly call the Keep Out Shed now because it's the security there.

00:09:02.000 It just says keep out on the door.

00:09:05.000 That was a facility where we raised pigs. 1.00

00:09:08.000 And then we had a rolling herd of about 40 milk cows.

00:09:12.000 And they were Holsteins.

00:09:15.000 And so it was a diverse farm.

00:09:17.000 It was a diverse ecosystem, if you will.

00:09:20.000 And, I don't know, during the Nixon administration, Earl Butz, who was the Secretary of Agriculture then, came out and said, get bigger, get out.

00:09:32.000 And that was really the beginning of the end of the small family farm.

00:09:37.000 What do you mean?

00:09:37.000 Like, he said this?

00:09:39.000 Like, was it a statement on television?

00:09:41.000 It was a statement.

00:09:43.000 How did this go down?

00:09:47.000 Well, I'm sure it could be found somewhere, but get bigger, and that's just the...

00:09:53.000 It was like a campaign?

00:09:54.000 Yeah, or a press conference or something to that effect.

00:09:57.000 That was going to be the move in agriculture, you know?

00:10:00.000 And it was a long process.

00:10:01.000 I mean, I remember our exit, if you will, from the dairy sector...

00:10:09.000 Ours came in the late 90s, so there was a big shift.

00:10:12.000 Just for example, my grandfather was running the farm in 1977, and the milk price was like $14 or $15 per hundredweight.

00:10:20.000 When my dad was forced to sell in, I think it was 98 or 99, it was like nine bucks.

00:10:27.000 So you're trying to raise a family and continue a legacy, and you're getting paid dirt.

00:10:33.000 What caused that shift?

00:10:35.000 Big agriculture.

00:10:36.000 Yeah, it was systematic.

00:10:38.000 It was a systematic shift to the corporate.

00:10:41.000 And there's some sense...

00:10:43.000 I want to say there's some sense in it, but that's probably not completely...

00:10:50.000 I mean, you understand that efficiency is getting...

00:10:52.000 It's the American way.

00:10:53.000 You get bigger, there's efficiencies in scale.

00:10:57.000 I'm trying to understand what was the motivation.

00:10:59.000 Was it that...

00:11:01.000 Populations were booming because there's a lot more people today.

00:11:04.000 I mean, I think we looked at it up the other day.

00:11:08.000 I think in 1970, there was something like 150 million people in this country.

00:11:12.000 Now there's 300 million.

00:11:14.000 That's not that long ago.

00:11:16.000 I mean, that's in my lifetime, and that's crazy.

00:11:19.000 That's crazy that the population's doubled, and the demand for food obviously doubled as well.

00:11:24.000 You know, something that's really interesting, if you look at that area where you came out and visited, the exact opposite has happened in population there.

00:11:31.000 There's half as many people in our area as there were when I was a kid.

00:11:34.000 And it's a farm area.

00:11:35.000 And it's a farm area.

00:11:37.000 So the small farm, the family farm, is what's really suffering.

00:11:41.000 Because it's so hard to make ends meet with these gigantic operations that are just...

00:11:48.000 Yeah.

00:11:48.000 Is that...

00:11:49.000 Well, they can, you know, I mean, it makes sense, you know, on a business scale, you can afford to sell a product cheaper if you're doing it bigger, but the things you lose there are the quality and the sustainability and environmental impact of the process. 0.99

00:12:04.000 You know, you got these big farms where basically they have, they got to make more product, but they also make more shit. 0.99

00:12:10.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:12:10.000 You know, and that's a water issue. 0.99

00:12:13.000 Well, that was a big part of that documentary, Cowspiracy, where they were trying to talk about the methane that's produced by cows. 0.97

00:12:19.000 The methane and just getting rid of the actual cow shit itself. 0.52

00:12:23.000 Like, you're talking about massive, massive quantities. 0.88

00:12:27.000 And when I was younger, and even now...

00:12:30.000 The manure that's produced on our farm, like now in the winter, I'm feeding hay.

00:12:34.000 And they're confined would be kind of a strong word.

00:12:38.000 They stay around where the hay is, you know, and we've got fresh water there for them and it's spring water and I can talk about that later.

00:12:43.000 But they stay in that area and so that's also where they're, you know, And so I end up piling that stuff up and I pile it up and I compost it and I put it on everything from a community garden nearby to our fields to people want to come by and say, 0.97

00:13:03.000 hey man, can I get a load of shit? 0.97

00:13:05.000 And sure as heck, I give it to them. 1.00

00:13:08.000 Whereas for a big facility, it's where do we get rid of this shit? 1.00

00:13:13.000 Right, right. 1.00

00:13:14.000 Yeah.

00:13:15.000 One of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you about this is because I think that most of us, when I say us, people that live in cities, have almost no idea of how all this stuff works.

00:13:28.000 And when people examine it or they try to watch a documentary on it or try to figure out how cows are raised, one of the things we get confused about is...

00:13:39.000 Stop playing with that same answer.

00:13:41.000 We get confused about is, how did it happen?

00:13:45.000 Like, how did these things become these gigantic sort of operations where it seems so inhumane?

00:13:57.000 Well, it's a business model.

00:14:01.000 It's a business model like corporations, like banks, like everything.

00:14:05.000 It's the same idea.

00:14:08.000 Interestingly to me, in our area, and Nate and some of the folks that he knows are an example, and I am to a lesser extent, because it's just a little bit different on our farm.

00:14:18.000 It's not something where I'm trying to make a living at it, you know?

00:14:22.000 That it's starting to go the other, it very much has gone the other way.

00:14:25.000 Things like community supported agriculture and those sort of things are happening.

00:14:29.000 That people want to know their farmer.

00:14:31.000 Right, so there's like a blowback.

00:14:33.000 So people are realizing that there's something kind of crazy about these factory farming setups.

00:14:38.000 And so now they're trying to get their meat more from organic farms.

00:14:42.000 But how much more expensive is it, say like with one of your farms?

00:14:46.000 I sell bulk.

00:14:47.000 I consider bulk anything over 50 pounds for $6.50 a pound.

00:14:53.000 So like a family could come to you and buy directly?

00:14:55.000 Oh yeah, absolutely.

00:14:57.000 And do you sell most of your stuff directly or do you sell it to like a wholesaler?

00:15:01.000 How does that work?

00:15:02.000 What I try to do is, and my whole goal with my meat production, I mean we do a lot of other things we'll maybe get into later, but the meat production, I try to Take care of a certain amount of families, you know, and when they need meat, I have it.

00:15:16.000 I'm not really, I don't market it.

00:15:17.000 I mean, it's all, I have customers and they come to me when they want meat.

00:15:20.000 So it's like a word of mouth type thing?

00:15:23.000 Yeah, and some people buy a quarter, you know, which is like 100 to 150 pounds sometimes.

00:15:27.000 And some people will come and buy 20 pounds when they need it, you know.

00:15:30.000 I have a buddy who is a fireman who does that.

00:15:33.000 He has a deal with a local rancher, and he buys him and a couple of the families that he's friends with, they'll go in on a side of beef.

00:15:42.000 They'll go in on a whole half of a cow. 1.00

00:15:44.000 And they save money that way, and then they know they're getting real, organic, grass-fed cows with that nice yellow fat.

00:15:54.000 Yeah, I have to tell you this story.

00:15:57.000 Some years ago when we were raising beef, one of the things that I did for my ex-wife and I did for my brother and sister-in-law was gave them a quarter of a beef for Christmas.

00:16:09.000 And I thought it was being real clever.

00:16:11.000 You know, the steers at that time kind of all had the same name.

00:16:15.000 The heifer calves, the female calves, I give them different names or different numbers and everything because we keep them around.

00:16:20.000 But the steers all had the same name and that was dinner.

00:16:25.000 And a steer, for people who don't know.

00:16:26.000 A cow that has its balls removed. 0.95

00:16:29.000 A male cow. 0.99

00:16:30.000 That's right.

00:16:30.000 It's a eunuch.

00:16:31.000 And there's a lot of good reasons for doing that.

00:16:36.000 And just so nobody says, so you're knocking this thing down and cutting its nuts off?

00:16:41.000 Well, yeah, that is what we're doing.

00:16:42.000 But when we knock it down, we actually sedate it.

00:16:44.000 It goes to sleep.

00:16:46.000 It wakes up, and it's singing soprano.

00:16:49.000 I mean, that's how that works.

00:16:51.000 They jerk a little bit, though, when you...

00:16:53.000 Well, yeah, you were too.

00:16:56.000 I would imagine.

00:16:58.000 I don't care whether you're sedated or not.

00:17:00.000 Right.

00:17:01.000 And so, yeah, that is what a steer is.

00:17:04.000 So, I'm sorry, the story was that, so we gave Sarah and Art this quarter of beef, and we were making a presentation of it, and they had the neighbors over.

00:17:20.000 And so everybody's sitting around the table, and there's a couple of Girls, young women, maybe 10 and 14, something like that.

00:17:28.000 I don't remember their exact ages.

00:17:29.000 But I had this Polaroid picture of that steer and said, you know, and I had it in quotations, dinner, and I made a presentation of, well, we gave you this meat, and here's this wonderful steak that we're having and everything, and here's the before, and here's the after.

00:17:44.000 Apparently, I turned one of those girls into a vegetarian that night. 1.00

00:17:49.000 And I felt horrible about it.

00:17:51.000 Well, you've been there from the beginning, from the time you were really young.

00:17:56.000 You've been there from, I mean, it's a part of your life, right?

00:17:59.000 You've always been around cows, you've always been around cattle.

00:18:02.000 It seems totally normal to you.

00:18:03.000 But to somebody that just is used to going to the supermarket and buying a steak, that comes neatly wrapped in saran wrap, a nice little foam tray...

00:18:12.000 You're kind of freaking them out with reality.

00:18:14.000 And I learned something that day about it.

00:18:17.000 But some of the folks that buy meat from me, they come out and they take a look at the place.

00:18:24.000 And, you know, I mean, you've been there.

00:18:25.000 You've been there at maybe the nicest time of the year because it was cold and all of that.

00:18:30.000 And the cattle weren't out in pasture.

00:18:31.000 We had them confined in the barnyard.

00:18:34.000 And they're out walking around.

00:18:35.000 They're laying on the hillside.

00:18:36.000 They're chewing their cud.

00:18:38.000 Man, they're just happy as they can be.

00:18:41.000 And they're looking at me, and they're looking at the cattle, and so I'm going to have some of that meat.

00:18:45.000 And it's just like there's that connection.

00:18:47.000 If I don't get anything else across here during this conversation, I'd encourage people to know their farmer, know the guy who's raising that, whatever it is, vegetables or meat or whatever for them.

00:18:59.000 Well, it's very difficult for someone who is not used to the idea of an animal being alive and then being dead and then cut up and then portioned into steaks and then cooking.

00:19:08.000 People that are used to going to the supermarket and buying it already done for them, to be sort of forced to look at that whole process as an adult.

00:19:20.000 It's a little disconcerting for a lot of people because we're faced with this very convenient world where we're completely detached from any of this stuff.

00:19:29.000 Now, as a guy who's been around it your whole life, that's got to be kind of frustrating when you see the hypocrisy of people who eat the meat but really kind of don't want to know where it came from.

00:19:42.000 Yeah, hypocrisy is the only sin, you know, in my world.

00:19:45.000 It's kind of the way I feel about it.

00:19:47.000 But I don't know necessarily that's hypocrisy as much as it's just ignorance.

00:19:53.000 And, you know, I also want to say I don't take it lightly at all.

00:19:57.000 When we load up a cow or a steer or whatever, I put them on there, man.

00:20:02.000 It's just like when we shoot wildlife, you know, we kill wildlife, something like that.

00:20:06.000 We did a thing.

00:20:08.000 Or you're doing a...

00:20:09.000 This is a big thing.

00:20:10.000 There's a reverence.

00:20:11.000 There is a reverence.

00:20:12.000 That's exactly the right word, Nate.

00:20:14.000 There's a reverence to it that you have in these smaller...

00:20:21.000 I mean, I could see where if I had 500 steers that I'm raising to 1,250 pounds, I might not have the same reverence to those animals, but they're giving me something.

00:20:31.000 You know, I'm taking it from them, but that's my deal, you know?

00:20:33.000 Well, that's a similar argument when you're talking about large populations of people, that there's sort of this diffusion of responsibility that comes with interacting with 20 million people versus 20 people.

00:20:44.000 When you're around 20 people, you have a town of 20 people, you know everybody.

00:20:47.000 You know, and the relationships are kind of important.

00:20:49.000 Whereas 20 million people, you give the finger to somebody on the road, what is the idea?

00:20:53.000 You're never going to see them again.

00:20:54.000 You hope not, right?

00:20:55.000 You hope not. 0.99

00:20:56.000 But if you're in Casanova and you see that dickhead down the street from you that leaves the nasty voicemail messages... 0.98

00:21:05.000 You'll never forget that one. 1.00

00:21:07.000 That fucking guy was crazy. 1.00

00:21:09.000 You played that for us. 1.00

00:21:10.000 That was seared into our head.

00:21:11.000 But, you know, you're forced into a relationship with that person, and you have to manage that relationship.

00:21:17.000 When you have, you know, how many cows you have now?

00:21:21.000 I have 20 head running around.

00:21:23.000 Yeah, so if you have 20 cows, like, when you have to...

00:21:27.000 And even, you know, when you do the deed, you're really not saying...

00:21:30.000 I have to kill this cow. 1.00

00:21:31.000 But you're saying when we load one up, when we do the deed, you know, there's all these euphemisms for what you're doing. 1.00

00:21:36.000 You're going to kill this cow. 1.00

00:21:38.000 Yeah. 0.94

00:21:40.000 Maybe that's because of the fact that there's so many of them, or rather there's so few of them that you have this, you know, it's a big moment.

00:21:48.000 It is a big moment.

00:21:50.000 You know, I sold a cow this fall.

00:21:53.000 That, through no fault of her own, had a prolapsed cervix.

00:21:57.000 And if you want to know what that is, essentially her cervix pushed out. 1.00

00:22:02.000 And no matter how many times you push it back in and sew things up, she's going to continue to push. 0.95

00:22:07.000 So she's not going to be productive.

00:22:10.000 And her productivity is to have calves. 0.98

00:22:14.000 And I felt terrible about it.

00:22:17.000 Didn't mean I didn't do it. 0.97

00:22:20.000 You mean do it mean kill her?

00:22:21.000 Well, I didn't kill her, but yeah.

00:22:24.000 And I'm not passing that responsibility off to somebody else from the standpoint of, well, I don't want to do it, so I have somebody else do it.

00:22:36.000 I'll do it when it needs to be done.

00:22:39.000 But when Nate and I both are selling meat to people, there's regulations that go along with it.

00:22:47.000 I mean, I can't just, like, drop a cow in the driveway of the barn, hang her up, cut her up, and start selling Joe Rogan meat.

00:22:58.000 There's USDA inspection and all that, so we both send our animals to very small, family-run slaughterhouses, butcher shops, and they do it.

00:23:08.000 So you don't necessarily kill them yourself?

00:23:10.000 No, no, no. 0.97

00:23:11.000 Never?

00:23:13.000 If you were doing one for yourself, you wouldn't.

00:23:17.000 And have.

00:23:18.000 So if you want to sell it, then you have to go through these USDA slaughterhouses.

00:23:22.000 You have to have a stamp and an inspection.

00:23:26.000 Yeah, and there's a standard to that.

00:23:30.000 Now, I would confidently never sell you any of my beef if I butchered it myself, but I would confidently give it to you and say this is as, I mean, you've seen how we do it out there.

00:23:42.000 So this is basically just government regulations that you have to follow?

00:23:45.000 Yeah, but I mean, there's a standardization, and I'm down with that.

00:23:48.000 There's a pretty cool movement going on.

00:23:51.000 The place I go to is called Driftless Meats in Viroqua, and it's a really...

00:23:57.000 Like, when they bring in a cow, like, one of the big problems with these slaughterhouses, Joe, is, you know, a lot of them, you bring your cow in the night before, and there's...

00:24:06.000 Who knows how many cows jammed into a pen and they're stressed out.

00:24:09.000 They're rutting around, bumping each other.

00:24:11.000 These guys up there, I think the max they take in on a slaughter day is four.

00:24:16.000 And so these cows got their own pen. 0.99

00:24:18.000 It's very stress-free.

00:24:20.000 It's very relaxed.

00:24:21.000 So the process, and that's what's so important about all of this and the sustainability and environmental impact, it's all about the process.

00:24:30.000 Fortunately, there's a really strong movement in that sector of the processing is going on.

00:24:37.000 Conscious Carnivore is a facility near us, and I think that's a very important way of putting it.

00:24:47.000 You know, the guys from Cowspiracy, there was a lot!

00:24:51.000 I agreed with those guys.

00:24:53.000 Me too.

00:24:54.000 Irrefutable.

00:24:54.000 That's what I think is unfortunate about the exaggerations of some of their claims, because I think that if they just stuck with what's absolute and reality, it's very disturbing.

00:25:05.000 The sustainability doesn't look good.

00:25:07.000 But what's interesting is...

00:25:10.000 Here's some things that you disagree with strongly.

00:25:12.000 It's one of the reasons why we got into this conversation.

00:25:14.000 One thing, the amount of acreage that it takes to grow a cow, to raise a cow.

00:25:20.000 I did...

00:25:21.000 I've been looking at my own cattle, one, but then also spending some time with our UW Extension.

00:25:29.000 It's the ag people through our university, you know, land-grant university. 0.99

00:25:34.000 1.4 1.4 to 14, depending on how...

00:25:39.000 Yeah.

00:25:40.000 That's a big difference.

00:25:41.000 And that's a huge difference.

00:25:42.000 Well, these guys were saying 50 acres.

00:25:44.000 Yeah, no one agrees with that.

00:25:46.000 In certain places, it probably is, though.

00:25:48.000 Well, it could have to be like desert.

00:25:49.000 But wasn't that guy, the guy they said was from Wisconsin, was from South Dakota?

00:25:53.000 Didn't you tell me?

00:25:54.000 Yeah, he made a reference on this.

00:25:55.000 And, you know, I don't want to pick all their numbers apart or anything.

00:25:58.000 Well, they're not ranchers.

00:25:59.000 So I think what happens is someone told them that, that sounds great, they went with it.

00:26:04.000 Look, they made a great documentary, but when you make a documentary you also have a great responsibility.

00:26:11.000 They have an agenda, it's very clear.

00:26:13.000 Their agenda is to promote veganism.

00:26:15.000 It's because they feel very strongly about it.

00:26:17.000 Whether you agree with it or whether you don't agree with it, that's their point of view.

00:26:19.000 That's what they're trying to get through in this documentary is that if you just grow vegetables and you live off vegetables, you don't need as many acres.

00:26:26.000 You could feed more people and it's a healthier way to do it.

00:26:29.000 That's just their perspective and their point of view.

00:26:31.000 So they sort of, they lean towards that in a very strong way while highlighting some irrefutable facts that are very disturbing.

00:26:39.000 And that's the shame of it is because, you know, they're environmentalists too.

00:26:43.000 You know, that's obvious.

00:26:46.000 It kind of put off the vibe that people like Doug and I aren't.

00:26:49.000 And that's the problem, as you look at the big corporations that are feeding off of all this misinformation, really.

00:26:59.000 What do you mean by the big corporations?

00:27:00.000 Well, you talk about the big farms.

00:27:02.000 You can talk about it in any industry.

00:27:05.000 It's kind of a disjointed effort.

00:27:07.000 You've got these guys talking about this.

00:27:09.000 You've got these guys talking about this.

00:27:11.000 We're all concerned about the environment.

00:27:14.000 But some of this stuff came off as an attack on beef production, cattle, livestock production.

00:27:20.000 But we all agree on certain things.

00:27:22.000 I think if you really want to focus and you want to make a change in the world...

00:27:27.000 Find a way to work together.

00:27:29.000 Yeah, but their change is don't eat animals. 0.64

00:27:31.000 Oh, I know.

00:27:32.000 Don't kill animals.

00:27:32.000 So you've got to compromise.

00:27:33.000 But they don't want to compromise.

00:27:35.000 That's the problem.

00:27:38.000 There's very strong connections between veganism and religion.

00:27:43.000 If you look at a lot of their ideologies, they're very similar in a lot of ways to religious zealots.

00:27:49.000 They have these ideas, they want to promote them, that and only that, and this is the way they want to go about it. 1.00

00:27:56.000 Some of them say crazy shit. 0.99

00:27:58.000 I've had these conversations with people on Twitter. 1.00

00:28:00.000 This guy was saying that human beings are not meant to eat meat.

00:28:03.000 We're herbivores. 0.98

00:28:05.000 Well, that's just not fucking true. 0.99

00:28:07.000 Show them your teeth, Doug. 0.99

00:28:09.000 Forget about the canine teeth.

00:28:10.000 That's absolutely true.

00:28:11.000 But how about the fact that scientists have done very clear studies on ancient humans, and the reason why we became human in the first place is the consumption of meat.

00:28:21.000 It literally changed the amount of brain tissue we have.

00:28:24.000 And then hunting changed how crafty people had to be.

00:28:28.000 It changed the innovation of these lower primates, these lower hominids. 1.00

00:28:33.000 They had to innovate.

00:28:34.000 They had to figure out tools.

00:28:35.000 They had to figure out weapons.

00:28:36.000 Not just to defend themselves from humans, but in order to hunt animals.

00:28:40.000 This is an irrefutable fact.

00:28:42.000 Essential part of evolution, yeah.

00:28:43.000 It is.

00:28:44.000 So I think, if I could speak for them, if I could play the devil's advocate, they're Point of view is now we have evolved to a point where we don't need to do this anymore.

00:28:53.000 We don't need meat anymore.

00:28:55.000 We're very intelligent.

00:28:56.000 We're also aware.

00:28:57.000 We're also faced with this overwhelming amount of evidence, this overwhelming amount of information that we have now because of the internet, because of our access to it, we've never had before.

00:29:08.000 So you can look at some of the statistics and some of the things they brought up and you could say, well, this is their argument for promoting a vegan lifestyle.

00:29:17.000 See, I can go with that.

00:29:19.000 The problem is that a lot of these guys, they say things like, human beings can't process meat.

00:29:26.000 Or we had this guy that Rob Wolf was arguing on Twitter who said, animal fat is toxic. 0.99

00:29:32.000 What the fuck are you talking about? 0.99

00:29:33.000 How do Inuits live? 1.00

00:29:34.000 How they've been around forever?

00:29:36.000 They just eat nothing but fat. 1.00

00:29:38.000 These fucking people. 1.00

00:29:39.000 And if you look at their diet and you look at their diseases, the only fucking Inuits that are getting cancer are the ones that are smoking cigarettes. 1.00

00:29:47.000 That's true. 1.00

00:29:48.000 It's our nasty fucking western habit that we've passed up to these poor people. 1.00

00:29:52.000 That's how they're getting cancer, and they're getting cancer in higher numbers than they ever have before because they weren't getting it before at all. 0.99

00:29:58.000 These people were eating blubber and fat and seals and whatever fish they could get, and they can't grow a goddamn single vegetable, and they weren't getting cancer.

00:30:06.000 The cancer thing, that's a great issue. 0.63

00:30:08.000 Because recently, I don't know if you've caught the whole red meat and cancer thing, and they came out and they said, you know, definitely your smoked meats and your cured meats.

00:30:19.000 Like, our meats aren't cured.

00:30:20.000 What do you mean by cured?

00:30:22.000 Let's talk about what you're talking about.

00:30:23.000 Like sodium nitrite, like when you make bacon.

00:30:25.000 Like, if you took a package of my bacon and looked at the label, I think there's three or four ingredients in mine.

00:30:31.000 You look at a...

00:30:32.000 What are those ingredients?

00:30:34.000 Water.

00:30:35.000 Pork, you know, and it's like celery salt, you know.

00:30:40.000 Right, which is how it should be.

00:30:41.000 Yeah.

00:30:41.000 The problem is, your bacon, if you sat on a shelf, Nesca, Oscar Mayer bacon, if you put them both on the same shelf and sat for a week, Oscar Mayer would look the same.

00:30:50.000 Yours would start to fall apart.

00:30:52.000 Mine would need to be frozen.

00:30:53.000 Yeah.

00:30:53.000 You know, that's the only thing.

00:30:55.000 It's fucking normal. 0.98

00:30:56.000 Right. 0.98

00:30:56.000 Like, why do we think flesh is just going to sit around and not fall apart at 39 degrees or whatever your refrigerator is? 0.98

00:31:03.000 It's not going to.

00:31:05.000 That's not how it goes.

00:31:06.000 So the cancer thing, and I get that, you know, I mean, that stuff probably is linked to cancer, but they've pulled back on the red meat in general.

00:31:13.000 They're not sure about it.

00:31:15.000 But the thing is, and I think the study is skewed because you talk about cancer and pH, okay?

00:31:21.000 You know, grass-fed beef has a neutral pH.

00:31:25.000 Corn-fed, grain-fed beef, that pH goes up.

00:31:28.000 And we know that cancer thrives in an acidic environment.

00:31:33.000 And there's other things.

00:31:35.000 The cows that have a high acid level, Guts, basically, is what it is. 1.00

00:31:40.000 They're more prone to acidosis, which needs more medication.

00:31:44.000 You need antibiotics.

00:31:45.000 And it's also a prime harbor for E. coli.

00:31:51.000 I'll find a staff for you, but the E. coli, I think it was 6,300,000 milligrams per person.

00:32:01.000 I'll look that up.

00:32:01.000 I'll chime back in.

00:32:02.000 You guys talk.

00:32:03.000 That's important.

00:32:04.000 Yeah, go ahead.

00:32:05.000 Look that up.

00:32:05.000 But it's a very important point I think you're making about how these animals that are unhealthy, it's kind of unhealthy to eat an unhealthy animal.

00:32:14.000 That seems logical.

00:32:15.000 That is.

00:32:16.000 One of the points that I found really interesting about the documentary was how these guys spoke about cattle aren't intended to eat.

00:32:26.000 And I couldn't agree with more.

00:32:27.000 Corn.

00:32:28.000 That was corn and soybeans.

00:32:29.000 Couldn't agree with more.

00:32:30.000 That's why mine eat grass, and right now they're eating hay. 0.99

00:32:32.000 And yours tastes very different, by the way.

00:32:34.000 You gave me a couple ribeyes last time. 0.98

00:32:37.000 I took them home. 0.85

00:32:37.000 They were damn delicious. 0.85

00:32:39.000 And lean, and a nice dark red meat. 0.93

00:32:42.000 And that's how a cow's supposed to be. 1.00

00:32:46.000 When you get beef from a store, you're getting this really light...

00:32:51.000 Red meat.

00:32:52.000 It's very light, almost like a pinkish meat.

00:32:54.000 And you compare that to, like, one of the elk steaks I have in back, those elk steaks are like a red, like a dark, almost like a purple. 0.99

00:33:03.000 You know, it's just fucking overflowing with testosterone and, you know, an elk cum or whatever the hell they got in their bodies. 0.97

00:33:11.000 I mean, that's a healthy animal. 0.99

00:33:13.000 That's exactly right.

00:33:14.000 And that animal is choosing to eat, an elk is choosing, well, it's obviously a product of its environment, so it's eating what's available, just like a white-tailed deer is.

00:33:22.000 I remember when you and Brian were out, and I think Brian held up one of the backstrap steaks, and he goes, oh my god, this is like...

00:33:30.000 Sashimi grade.

00:33:32.000 Yeah.

00:33:32.000 Nothing better.

00:33:33.000 Nothing better.

00:33:34.000 Oh my god.

00:33:35.000 When we cook that on your kitchen, oh my god.

00:33:38.000 We just butter, salt, and garlic.

00:33:41.000 And we grilled up some of those and we were all eating them going, good lord.

00:33:45.000 It was from an animal that you shot, what, three hours ago?

00:33:49.000 Yeah.

00:33:49.000 I mean, it was incredible.

00:33:50.000 Yeah, you talk about fresh...

00:33:51.000 Oh my god.

00:33:52.000 I do have that count there.

00:33:54.000 It is...

00:33:55.000 Remember, he's my numbers guy.

00:33:57.000 Are you ready?

00:33:58.000 He brought Nathan here to know the flight information, what's the hotel room, what time's the podcast...

00:34:04.000 And I'm going to hell with this.

00:34:06.000 You know, this is fun, Doug, but come on, I've got a family bag.

00:34:10.000 So now we're talking cells per gram of meat.

00:34:13.000 Okay.

00:34:14.000 So in your grain-fed...

00:34:17.000 The count of E.coli, the grain fed in the count of E.coli, 6,300,000 cells per gram.

00:34:24.000 And the grass fed, 20,000. 0.99

00:34:28.000 Holy shit! 1.00

00:34:29.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:34:31.000 Holy shit! 1.00

00:34:32.000 And it's all about the environment that you're creating by what you're putting into this thing. 1.00

00:34:35.000 It's unnatural!

00:34:36.000 That is crazy.

00:34:36.000 It's unnatural.

00:34:37.000 That is crazy.

00:34:39.000 Crazy numbers.

00:34:40.000 Wow!

00:34:41.000 And so...

00:34:43.000 These guys, and you know what?

00:34:46.000 I'd love to have them come to the farm and talk to me.

00:34:48.000 I don't think they want to be around your house of murder.

00:34:53.000 Doug Durin, House of Murder! 1.00

00:34:55.000 Well, take him out around Thanksgiving, right around opening day, and they can hear the fucking war zone. 0.99

00:35:01.000 We grow veggies, too, you know? 0.96

00:35:04.000 Where Doug lives, opening day, like in the morning, when we were out in the blind, and as soon as the sun starts peeking up over the horizon, you hear...

00:35:16.000 Boom! 0.99

00:35:17.000 You hear it off in the distance.

00:35:19.000 I'm like, dude, are we at war?

00:35:20.000 Why is there a picture of me?

00:35:21.000 That's gross.

00:35:23.000 I got a...

00:35:24.000 I don't know, man.

00:35:25.000 I kind of like it.

00:35:26.000 Thank you very much.

00:35:29.000 I'm sharing a room with this guy.

00:35:30.000 Yeah.

00:35:31.000 The...

00:35:33.000 That was a weird experience.

00:35:35.000 It was the first time I'd ever been...

00:35:37.000 When I had gone hunting before, before that time, it had only been in the wild in Missouri, in the breaks, where there was no people.

00:35:46.000 When we were in your area, in Casanova, it's like everybody is so geared up for it.

00:35:52.000 When we stopped at that sporting goods store and got tags and got some equipment, everybody was rip-roaring, ready to go.

00:36:00.000 Tomorrow was like the opening day of a race.

00:36:02.000 Yeah.

00:36:02.000 It was weird.

00:36:03.000 Yeah.

00:36:04.000 A deer per second opening day in Wisconsin is shot.

00:36:07.000 Jesus Christ.

00:36:08.000 A deer per second.

00:36:09.000 Well, that's a testament to how many there are.

00:36:11.000 Well, yeah.

00:36:12.000 We read a statistic about Minnesota, about how many car accidents are in Minnesota.

00:36:17.000 Was it Michigan?

00:36:18.000 Michigan.

00:36:18.000 Michigan has 100,000 car accidents a year from people hitting deer.

00:36:26.000 Just stop for a second, ladies and gentlemen, and you tell me you don't think they need to kill some fucking deer. 0.99

00:36:33.000 There's a hundred thousand a year. 0.99

00:36:36.000 I'm pretty sure that's the number.

00:36:38.000 I should probably be careful if I keep repeating it over and over again.

00:36:41.000 There's a lot.

00:36:41.000 There's a lot of deer.

00:36:42.000 There's more than five a year.

00:36:46.000 What's the number?

00:36:48.000 50,000. 1.00

00:36:49.000 Damn it. 1.00

00:36:49.000 I was so close. 1.00

00:36:51.000 80% of these crashes occur on two-lane roads between dusk and dawn.

00:36:56.000 50,000.

00:36:56.000 What is the amount of animals that kill people?

00:37:00.000 Oh, okay.

00:37:01.000 The state's two million deer!

00:37:04.000 Two million deer! 1.00

00:37:06.000 In one fucking state! 1.00

00:37:08.000 How many people are in Michigan? 1.00

00:37:11.000 More than 2 million, but not a whole lot more.

00:37:14.000 I think in Wisconsin, cattle outnumber folks.

00:37:17.000 They're dropping by the day with that lead water.

00:37:18.000 9.9 million. 1.00

00:37:20.000 Holy shit. 1.00

00:37:22.000 That's insane. 0.99

00:37:23.000 So they're 20% deer.

00:37:26.000 So what that means is, here's the reality.

00:37:28.000 You literally could feed that entire state of the deer population.

00:37:33.000 That's real. 0.99

00:37:34.000 Because one deer, you can fucking eat a deer for months. 0.99

00:37:37.000 And one deer is going to make more than one deer. 0.99

00:37:41.000 I think that is a really interesting point, and it kind of goes along with some of my agreement with these guys.

00:37:47.000 We're subsidizing the dollar meal or whatever, the dollar hamburger and that kind of quick meat.

00:37:57.000 You drive through, you get the burger, and off you go.

00:38:01.000 I'm not...

00:38:03.000 What I would advocate for is that I'm okay with eating less meat.

00:38:07.000 They had Michael Pollan on it.

00:38:08.000 He talked about eating less meat.

00:38:10.000 Based on the numbers that they were using, which I think was like...

00:38:12.000 I think it was 0.6-something, I think is what they said on the movie.

00:38:17.000 So like a half a pound of meat a day?

00:38:21.000 Well, it was more than that.

00:38:21.000 It was 0.6-something, I believe.

00:38:23.000 Or what you're supposed to eat?

00:38:24.000 No, that's what the average American eats, evidently.

00:38:27.000 That's it?

00:38:27.000 Well, I mean, that's like...

00:38:29.000 Yeah, I balance that shit out. 0.99

00:38:31.000 But... 0.99

00:38:32.000 You bring the average up.

00:38:34.000 Well, you've got to think about the guys.

00:38:35.000 You know, we've all seen these guys, you know, Charlie Chicken Fingers and Slobber McGee, you know, eating fast food.

00:38:41.000 Charlie Chicken Fingers and Slobber McGee.

00:38:42.000 You've seen these guys eat, right?

00:38:44.000 You know, you're like, watch out, you're going to eat your finger, dude.

00:38:46.000 Slow down.

00:38:47.000 Well, people are addicted to food, man.

00:38:49.000 That's a fact.

00:38:50.000 That's what we're dealing with, because the real sickness isn't that we're raising meat, it's the demand.

00:38:56.000 You know, so farmers...

00:38:59.000 We're good to go. 0.99

00:39:18.000 Look, if Casanovia was the world, you wouldn't need a fucking factory farm. 0.99

00:39:25.000 You sure wouldn't. 0.99

00:39:25.000 You wouldn't need it. 0.99

00:39:27.000 Casanovia is essentially a sustainable environment.

00:39:29.000 All you need is some solar power, some windmills for electricity.

00:39:33.000 You got your own spring.

00:39:35.000 You got your water you can get from a well.

00:39:36.000 You got your cattle that graze.

00:39:38.000 You have more than enough food for you.

00:39:40.000 You could grow your own vegetables.

00:39:42.000 You can, what you don't have in the winter, you know, what you want to last through the winter, and you're good. 1.00

00:39:48.000 But we have too many goddamn people. 0.99

00:39:51.000 Right. 1.00

00:39:51.000 Isn't that often comes down to people keep fucking, and that's... 1.00

00:39:55.000 Fucking is fun. 1.00

00:39:58.000 I'm a fan of it. 0.99

00:39:59.000 When are we going home?

00:40:00.000 Can we get an early flight tomorrow?

00:40:01.000 Me too, man. 0.98

00:40:03.000 Well, I have three kids, so I should shut the fuck up, because I'm obviously making more people than I am. 0.98

00:40:09.000 Are they all boys? 0.99

00:40:10.000 No, all girls. 0.50

00:40:11.000 See, my best friend Gatlin, he's got five boys.

00:40:15.000 It's one thing to have five kids, but to have them all be boys, that's like, you're talking exponential. 0.99

00:40:19.000 They're just going to fucking shoot jizz off all the land and make more boys. 1.00

00:40:24.000 The cool thing is, and Doug and I have been talking about this, and he mentioned earlier, like, we're sitting here talking about this really interesting stuff because we don't want to come off on this podcast as a bunch of, you know, Knuckle-dragging mouth breathers eating meat. 0.99

00:40:39.000 You're definitely not.

00:40:39.000 So let's be careful.

00:40:44.000 We're talking about all this stuff in the middle of L.A. where you got a guy dressed like Spider-Man and all these women wearing, you know... 0.88

00:40:51.000 Well, by the way, that's why we're way out here in the suburbs.

00:40:54.000 I don't want to be around that.

00:40:56.000 It's not a good place.

00:40:56.000 Well, thank you for putting us down there, though.

00:40:58.000 You guys wanted to be down there, right?

00:41:01.000 No, it's perfect.

00:41:02.000 Well, it's a good place to, you know, just to...

00:41:04.000 People watch.

00:41:05.000 People watch, yeah.

00:41:07.000 Well, one thing, we've been talking about a lot of awesome people and really digging deeper into this, but there's guys like, you know, Doug can expand on this more because he's read more of the book, but this guy Mark Shepard and other guys, I mean, people contend that we can raise enough food sustainably, but part of that equation is...

00:41:24.000 And that's what maybe we could unify with these guys, like guys from Cowspiracy is, you know, let's not talk about ending meat.

00:41:30.000 That's an unachievable goal.

00:41:31.000 That's never going to happen.

00:41:32.000 Let's talk about educating people to say, hey, let's not eat quite so much so we can sustain, you know?

00:41:38.000 Okay, but just to play devil's advocate, a lot of these guys, they love animals.

00:41:43.000 They love animals.

00:41:44.000 They're animal lovers.

00:41:45.000 It's almost like...

00:41:46.000 Yeah, so are we.

00:41:47.000 But they do it in a way where they don't want animals to die.

00:41:50.000 They want those animals to die of old age only.

00:41:54.000 The problem, I think, there's an ideology attached to veganism, where once they stop eating meat, they want everybody else to stop, too.

00:42:02.000 Well, you're talking about 95% of the world that eats meat.

00:42:06.000 It's 95%, something crazy like that.

00:42:09.000 Please always check my numbers, Jimmy.

00:42:11.000 I was off by 100%.

00:42:13.000 Did you have the day off that those guys called it?

00:42:21.000 This is to play devil's advocate.

00:42:23.000 If these guys can stop eating meat and become vegans, why can't the world?

00:42:27.000 And I think that's what a lot of people are saying.

00:42:31.000 Other things I would agree with them.

00:42:33.000 Have a garden.

00:42:34.000 Grow some food on your balcony in the city.

00:42:38.000 We have a couple of mutual friends who are growing stuff on their balcony in New York City.

00:42:42.000 That's different.

00:42:43.000 One thing I noticed in that movie was dude's hydroponic system on the rooftop was empty.

00:42:56.000 We're not here to throw punches.

00:42:57.000 Well, they could have just started it and just set it up.

00:43:00.000 Or go buy some plants and put them in there for heaven's sake.

00:43:02.000 One of my favorite stories is these former FBI agents who were retired and they were arrested because they were growing hydroponic plants and vegetables in their basement and, you know, the DEA passes by houses and they scan.

00:43:16.000 These people bought hydroponic When you buy hydroponic equipment, they flag you, and they follow you.

00:43:22.000 It's so fucking insane that growing vegetables has become a crime.

00:43:26.000 Because so many people grow a pot, they assume that if you're growing a plant with some sort of a plant system, that you must be growing an illegal drug. 0.99

00:43:33.000 So with no evidence whatsoever, two fucking former FBI agents, they break down their door, guns a-blazin', and they arrest these people and then find out they're fucking growing tomatoes. 0.91

00:43:43.000 Yeah, that's kind of a hot-button deal going on in Reedsburg right now. 0.99

00:43:46.000 We're my hometown.

00:43:48.000 My buddy Gatlin, I already mentioned him, but he's on a whim.

00:43:54.000 I mean, this dude is a successful appraiser, real estate appraiser, but he's always looking for that home run.

00:44:00.000 So he's making a living, but he's taking his cuts.

00:44:02.000 And so now his latest venture, he took his whole tax return and just turned this building that he couldn't lease into a hydroponic wonderland.

00:44:11.000 For weed?

00:44:12.000 No.

00:44:13.000 Well, when it comes legal, he's gonna be ready to rock and roll.

00:44:15.000 And he wants to do CBD oil extraction.

00:44:18.000 The government's going after that now.

00:44:20.000 Right.

00:44:20.000 But you get these people walking by, and we got these purple lights, and people are like, what are they growing in there?

00:44:25.000 And everybody thinks we're growing weed, and it's like, if we're growing weed, the cops would have the door kicked down two weeks ago.

00:44:31.000 Maybe they should put a sign. 1.00

00:44:31.000 We're not growing weed, you fucks. 1.00

00:44:33.000 Well, he just needs to get a sign up. 0.99

00:44:34.000 That is a sign that you should put up.

00:44:36.000 It's called Grow Lucky.

00:44:38.000 You can Google it.

00:44:38.000 I think it's growluckygreens.com.

00:44:40.000 It's all pretty new.

00:44:41.000 I would definitely assume that guy knows where the weed is.

00:44:44.000 Grow Lucky Greens.

00:44:45.000 With that name?

00:44:46.000 How lucky can I get? 1.00

00:44:49.000 How much for an ounce of your lucky shit, man? 1.00

00:44:51.000 Let's talk about this downstairs. 1.00

00:44:55.000 Come to the special room.

00:44:57.000 Anyway, that idea of growing the garden and people taking responsibility for their food is such a big deal.

00:45:04.000 The fellas that you had in here, that's You know, where I'm joined at the hip with him about that.

00:45:11.000 Yeah, I think we're all in agreement with that.

00:45:13.000 And there's a guy named Ron Finley that I had on before who was awesome.

00:45:16.000 And he's a proponent of urban gardening.

00:45:19.000 And what he does is he takes medians, like, you know, that you just see grass and bullshit in in LA. Genius. 0.98

00:45:24.000 Yeah, genius stuff.

00:45:25.000 Plants in them.

00:45:26.000 He grows vegetables and foods.

00:45:27.000 And he does it in abandoned lots.

00:45:30.000 He'll set up gardens in abandoned lots.

00:45:32.000 And he does it all throughout South Central.

00:45:33.000 And he has people that live in these communities growing their own food.

00:45:36.000 And he had this amazing point that I never considered before.

00:45:39.000 He's like, you drive down this street and you see bushes, you see trees, you see all these plants, and you can't eat none of it! 0.98

00:45:46.000 He goes, we're wasting water on shit we can't even eat. 0.91

00:45:49.000 He goes, you could have food growing in the same places you have all of these trees. 0.99

00:45:55.000 Why don't we do that?

00:45:56.000 And I was sitting there going, why don't we do that?

00:45:58.000 Like an orange tree.

00:46:00.000 We'll talk about lawns too, lawns. 1.00

00:46:00.000 Fuck yeah, right? 1.00

00:46:01.000 An orange tree looks great. 1.00

00:46:03.000 Well, that's exactly right.

00:46:05.000 Aesthetically pleasing on top of it all.

00:46:08.000 Food!

00:46:08.000 You've got to get them some of these pictures.

00:46:10.000 Food!

00:46:10.000 This guy, Mark Shepard, who's from our area, and he doesn't know me from The Man on the Moon.

00:46:15.000 This is his book, Restoration Agriculture.

00:46:16.000 Restoration Agriculture.

00:46:18.000 Real world permaculture for farmers.

00:46:20.000 Look it up.

00:46:22.000 Area photographs of his farm.

00:46:24.000 Artwork.

00:46:26.000 Exactly.

00:46:27.000 It looks like a landscape architect was involved.

00:46:30.000 Layering of plants, starting with the tallest trees down to annuals eventually.

00:46:35.000 At the same time, he's pasturing through there three and four different kinds of animals.

00:46:40.000 They're cleaning up the nuts that they didn't harvest.

00:46:46.000 Which is very important to clean your nuts.

00:46:48.000 That's what I'm saying.

00:46:49.000 Bar none.

00:46:50.000 Most importantly.

00:46:51.000 Unless you're in a weird show.

00:46:54.000 Some people like dirty things.

00:46:57.000 That's where you get minerals.

00:46:58.000 All right.

00:46:59.000 Nut butter?

00:47:00.000 Dirt.

00:47:00.000 Whoa, is this his stuff?

00:47:01.000 Yes!

00:47:01.000 So check that out.

00:47:02.000 That's amazing.

00:47:03.000 Isn't that cool?

00:47:04.000 That's gorgeous.

00:47:05.000 And so this is, it says, New Forest Farm, Mark Shepherd, Permaculture, what does it say?

00:47:10.000 There's the words abbreviated there.

00:47:12.000 Permaculture.

00:47:13.000 Apprenticeship program.

00:47:14.000 I think he does classes and stuff.

00:47:16.000 Oh, that's cool.

00:47:17.000 And the amount of food he can pull off that, Joe.

00:47:19.000 And they graze that then.

00:47:22.000 What do you mean, cows graze that?

00:47:24.000 Yeah, and pigs and chickens.

00:47:27.000 Oh, so there's grass in between.

00:47:29.000 So he says, and maybe Doug can find this, but the amount of food he can grow on there, and he talks about just how many vegetables.

00:47:36.000 He's like, but if you're only growing vegetables, you're going to have to mow this stuff.

00:47:39.000 So it makes sense.

00:47:41.000 And that's the whole thing.

00:47:42.000 You've got to complete the loop.

00:47:42.000 You've got to complete the cycle.

00:47:44.000 You've got to close that loop and find that ecological harmony.

00:47:47.000 That's the whole thing.

00:47:49.000 Two photos ago, Jamie, don't go through those real quick, right there, bam, make that bigger.

00:47:54.000 Whoa.

00:47:55.000 He's got little ponds in there, too?

00:47:57.000 Yeah.

00:47:57.000 And so the cattle graze in the grass area, and then in between the grass, he's got trees that grow food.

00:48:03.000 Wow, that's beautiful, too.

00:48:05.000 And then he brings pigs and chickens through.

00:48:07.000 And this is near you?

00:48:08.000 Yeah, not far away.

00:48:10.000 Viola?

00:48:11.000 Yeah, Viroqua.

00:48:12.000 Now go to it now. 0.99

00:48:13.000 It's a big fucking ice skating rink. 0.99

00:48:15.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:48:15.000 Frozen tundra. 1.00

00:48:16.000 Let's go in, Jim.

00:48:18.000 His point being that when we grow one crop on a farm field, Corn, soybeans, organic or otherwise, or vegetables, that sort of thing.

00:48:31.000 In our area, in the winter, then that's a desert.

00:48:33.000 I mean, once the corn or once the beans come off, that's what it is.

00:48:36.000 I mean, you saw it.

00:48:37.000 The deer come out into the field and they eat a little bit of the stuff and all that.

00:48:40.000 And guys will pasture out on that.

00:48:43.000 But it really does become sort of that one-trick pony, which to a certain degree, vegetable gardening will be as well, although you can rotate crops through.

00:48:52.000 But like on my place, we're growing livestock.

00:48:55.000 We're enriching the soil.

00:48:58.000 Our pasture is getting better all the time because we're not over pasturing in any particular place.

00:49:03.000 There's carbon sequestering going on.

00:49:05.000 What's that mean?

00:49:07.000 Carbon sequestering.

00:49:08.000 Locking up the carbon in the soil.

00:49:10.000 So like with composting and things along those lines?

00:49:14.000 Yeah, there's people that can contend that cattle and proper management In the pasture rotation, it can start to turn back the climate change.

00:49:26.000 How would that work?

00:49:27.000 By sequestering the carbon, starting to pull it out.

00:49:30.000 And when we till, the constant tillage, that's a no-no.

00:49:36.000 A lot of no-tilling, a lot of rotational grazing, that's up and up.

00:49:41.000 I mean, that's where we need to be.

00:49:45.000 Multiple benefits from one action.

00:49:47.000 So I'm pasturing, and you saw some of the pastures, some of the places where you hunted was pasturing.

00:49:52.000 There's wildlife in there, and we've got good, clean water.

00:49:55.000 When we went to a point on our farm where we weren't over pasturing, and it was just something that we, you know, we sort of learned, the streams were real wide.

00:50:05.000 When we were over pasturing, they were really wide.

00:50:08.000 The water was shallow, and it was warm.

00:50:11.000 No trout.

00:50:13.000 As time has gone by and we weren't over pasturing anymore, those streams narrow up because there's running water that's going to cut that and it starts to fill in.

00:50:22.000 The grass starts to grow.

00:50:23.000 Now you stepped across a creek that you used to have to walk through.

00:50:29.000 So there's trout in there now.

00:50:32.000 The cattle are going in there.

00:50:34.000 They're eating a certain amount of the grass.

00:50:35.000 We keep moving them through. 0.99

00:50:40.000 They're eating a certain amount of the grass.

00:50:41.000 They're keeping some of the invasive species down.

00:50:44.000 Deer are still living in there.

00:50:45.000 Songbirds are still living there.

00:50:46.000 Gamebirds are still living in there.

00:50:48.000 All of those things are happening and the Plants themselves are pulling the CO2, you know, the whole photosynthetic process, pulling that out and putting it back into the ground where it belongs to counteract some of that.

00:51:02.000 So, gee, I think I'm getting like three or four different positive results from having pasture, you know, hickory orchard with some bigger trees and that sort of thing.

00:51:13.000 This dude...

00:51:14.000 With permaculture, it starts to add multiple other things.

00:51:18.000 Layers of...

00:51:19.000 So if you think about an acre of land like this table, and if you're growing one crop on it, one vegetable crop, you've got an acre of land, 43,560 square feet of that particular vegetable, or those groups of vegetables.

00:51:33.000 But with the idea of permaculture...

00:51:36.000 You have your upper layers, trees, big trees, you know, big oak trees and, you know, you might have hickory for hickory nuts and that sort of thing.

00:51:48.000 Bush type things and berries.

00:51:50.000 Well, to begin with, that upper level.

00:51:53.000 So on that same, you know, chunk of ground, you've got this large tree.

00:51:57.000 It's producing wood.

00:51:59.000 This looks like a good oak table here that we're leaning on.

00:52:02.000 It's the same sort of thing.

00:52:03.000 The next layer is the smaller trees like fruit trees and that sort of thing.

00:52:07.000 Below that are shrubs that are going to be serviceberry, chokeberry, aronia, some of the antioxidant producing And then you go down to the next layer,

00:52:24.000 which is going to be things like asparagus and rhubarb.

00:52:27.000 And it keeps coming down.

00:52:29.000 So now instead of just that one plane of plants growing, you've got it on that same acre.

00:52:35.000 You've just grown multiple acres of food.

00:52:37.000 And that is just something that needs to be thought about, the bigger thing.

00:52:41.000 He's then rotating through four different kinds of animals.

00:52:44.000 He's running beef through it.

00:52:47.000 And they're not in there all the time.

00:52:48.000 So it takes management.

00:52:50.000 After beef, and it's called a leader-follower grazing system.

00:52:55.000 After beef, he's running pigs through it, because pigs are a great cleanup animal. 0.97

00:53:00.000 After that comes turkeys, and turkeys are cleaning up the grubs and whatnot in the shit from the cows and the pigs. 0.85

00:53:09.000 He runs sheep in it, and last might be chickens.

00:53:12.000 So the intensity of management is incredible, and the amount of Layers of food that are coming off of that and then layers of acreage.

00:53:23.000 Well, suddenly we're getting, you know, in his scenario, I'm getting three or four benefits out of it.

00:53:28.000 He's still getting all that carbon sequestering and all that.

00:53:31.000 But now he's built that up to 10 or 12 different positive results from the same thing.

00:53:37.000 And one of them is from a wildlife perspective, which is one of the things that gets talked about all the time.

00:53:43.000 You garden at home.

00:53:44.000 I garden at home.

00:53:45.000 What's the one thing that every garden that has wildlife around it has?

00:53:48.000 A fence.

00:53:50.000 If you're going to grow vegetables for profit or for fun and put your effort into it, you can put a fence around it.

00:53:57.000 You're going to exclude wildlife from that.

00:53:59.000 Exactly.

00:54:00.000 That's one of the main contingents we had.

00:54:03.000 When we sat down, we're like, okay, this is going to be tough.

00:54:05.000 These guys...

00:54:06.000 We put forth a really good narrative and had some really irrefutable facts.

00:54:10.000 But one of the things we talked about, the water, talked about the acreage, but the wildlife thing, one thing that they said was, and where these livestock are living, that is area void of wildlife.

00:54:22.000 I mean, I look at my pasture, from the soil microbes and the worms to the bugs and butterflies to the, you know, field mice and moles, and we've got hawks, and we've, I mean, we see a badger and a fox.

00:54:32.000 I mean, That's wildlife.

00:54:34.000 They had a very idealistic point of view.

00:54:36.000 They didn't understand wolves.

00:54:38.000 They didn't understand management of wolves.

00:54:39.000 They didn't understand the reason why they're starting to open up hunting seasons on wolves.

00:54:44.000 They also didn't know that Idaho is one of the most wildlife-rich places in the country where people go and hunt elk and mule deer. 0.99

00:54:52.000 I mean, Idaho is fucking filled with animals. 0.73

00:54:54.000 And they thought that Idaho is like, you know, it's all farms now. 0.99

00:54:57.000 It's devoid of...

00:54:58.000 They just...

00:54:59.000 It's an idealized sort of hippie vegan approach, which, you know, they're just leaning towards that.

00:55:06.000 It doesn't matter.

00:55:07.000 It doesn't mean they don't have great points.

00:55:09.000 Absolutely.

00:55:09.000 Oh, yeah.

00:55:09.000 No, that's what we're saying.

00:55:10.000 It was a tough thing to do, you know, to come out and be a counterpoint for something that you agree with a lot of.

00:55:17.000 Their main bone, and I think a lot of people, I mean, it's the factory farming thing.

00:55:24.000 What we're talking about here, I don't think it's sustainable for the population of Los Angeles. 0.97

00:55:28.000 And what you're talking about here with this kind of a farm, man, you would need a giant fucking farm like that to feed Los Angeles. 0.98

00:55:36.000 Or a lot of them. 0.99

00:55:38.000 A lot of smaller farms.

00:55:39.000 Oh, but you would mean so many of them.

00:55:42.000 I don't know how much they produce in...

00:55:46.000 If you compared in comparison to one of these gigantic factory farms.

00:55:51.000 Well, and I'm not...

00:55:53.000 I don't know, right?

00:55:54.000 My number guy isn't going to have those numbers either.

00:55:56.000 Well, no one is.

00:55:57.000 And this is the thing.

00:55:58.000 We can keep going deeper and deeper with this because people can say, well, hey, it's sustainable in Cazenovia.

00:56:03.000 Okay, well, is it sustainable in Wisconsin?

00:56:05.000 Yes.

00:56:05.000 Is it sustainable on the entire eastern side of the country?

00:56:09.000 No.

00:56:10.000 Not really.

00:56:11.000 Okay.

00:56:11.000 What if we can get the United States sustainable?

00:56:14.000 Well, we've still got India. 1.00

00:56:15.000 Well, we're fucked. 1.00

00:56:16.000 You know? 1.00

00:56:17.000 I mean, you've got a billion people living in a place a third the size of the United States.

00:56:21.000 What do you do then?

00:56:22.000 Those numbers might be wrong.

00:56:25.000 The big thing here is, and the bigger conversation I think is, and that's something that, gosh, people that care should really, you know, shove veganism and, you know, meat eating aside and just, let's say, how do we make this work?

00:56:38.000 You know, and I think it's education.

00:56:39.000 I think...

00:56:41.000 People need to understand that you can't just go around eating meat, you know, Charlie's Chicken Fingers.

00:56:49.000 You can't be doing that.

00:56:50.000 You've got to have a balanced diet, and you can't be eating pounds of meat a day.

00:56:53.000 For health, you probably shouldn't overeat.

00:56:56.000 I think we all agree on that.

00:56:57.000 Overeat anything.

00:56:58.000 But this is a different subject I think we're talking about.

00:57:01.000 We're talking about sustainability, and we're talking about feeding gigantic swaths of people.

00:57:07.000 Yeah.

00:57:08.000 And that's what these factory farms have set up. 1.00

00:57:10.000 I mean, through the method of collecting nitrogen from the oxygen, I mean, from the air, the Haber method that they invented in, like, the early 1900s, that's how they figured out how to extract nitrogen, and because of that, a gigantic population boom ensued.

00:57:26.000 That's the reason why there's so many people in the world today.

00:57:30.000 This is widely accredited with the Haber method of collecting nitrogen.

00:57:34.000 Because before that, it was really difficult to fertilize soil.

00:57:37.000 Once they figured out how to extract nitrogen from the actual air itself, things got a little easier to grow food, and the population boomed.

00:57:45.000 And that's part of what we're dealing with here.

00:57:47.000 What we're dealing with here It's kind of, you know, when we talk about wildlife, we're talking about the 50,000 car accidents that are in Michigan every year alone because of the overabundance of deer.

00:58:00.000 This is sort of what we're talking about with human beings.

00:58:03.000 We have an overabundance of human beings.

00:58:05.000 Now, obviously, I'm not suggesting we have massive hunts on humans.

00:58:09.000 So it's in the herd?

00:58:11.000 It's in the herd.

00:58:12.000 But we would, if we were some sort of an alien, and we looked at, okay, let's put it this way. 0.91

00:58:18.000 If chimpanzees were overrunning Chicago, like somehow or another chimpanzees figured out how to get to Chicago, they fucking swang from tree to tree, and they moved in and started setting up shop and overrunning the place, 0.99

00:58:34.000 the part where people were getting in car accidents with chimps, would we kill them? 1.00

00:58:39.000 That would be very tricky.

00:58:40.000 I don't think we would. 1.00

00:58:41.000 Because chimps are way fucking smarter than deer, and we like smart shit. 1.00

00:58:45.000 So, we wouldn't kill chimps the way we would kill deer. 1.00

00:58:48.000 So, people obviously are smarter than- most people are smarter than chimps.

00:58:52.000 I know some people that probably aren't smarter than chimps.

00:58:55.000 When it gets to intelligent animals, that's when we get weird. 0.99

00:58:58.000 Like, nobody gives a fuck if you kill a bug, okay? 0.99

00:59:01.000 If mosquitoes contain Zitka virus and malaria and all this different shit, you can kill mosquitoes all goddamn day long. 1.00

00:59:08.000 And for whatever reason, nobody gives a fuck about mosquitoes. 0.99

00:59:10.000 Because we've all agreed that mosquitoes are the enemy, right? 0.94

00:59:13.000 Mosquitoes contain malaria.

00:59:14.000 Malaria has killed—this is a number I know is real—malaria has killed 50% of all the people that have died ever.

00:59:20.000 How about that?

00:59:21.000 Wow.

00:59:22.000 Say that again?

00:59:23.000 50% of all the human beings that have died ever in the history of people have died from malaria.

00:59:30.000 How about them apples?

00:59:31.000 That's a pretty heavy thing you laid on me there. 0.98

00:59:33.000 That's some real shit because I've been fascinated with malaria for years. 0.97

00:59:36.000 I've read a lot of shit on malaria, and I've had two friends that got malaria, including Justin Wren, our friend who was in here recently, who fights this weekend on Bellator. 0.99

00:59:44.000 Good luck to my friend Justin. 0.98

00:59:46.000 He's the best. 1.00

00:59:47.000 This guy is fucking... 1.00

00:59:48.000 You want to talk about an amazing human being? 1.00

00:59:50.000 This guy, he gave up years of his life to go to the Congo and dig wells for these people, these pygmies in the Congo. 0.99

00:59:58.000 He's just the salt of the earth, like the nicest guy ever.

01:00:01.000 But he got malaria when he was doing that.

01:00:03.000 And almost died. 0.99

01:00:04.000 So, nobody gives a fuck if you kill mosquitoes, which is my point. 0.99

01:00:08.000 You know, you could swat flies. 1.00

01:00:09.000 Vegans will swat a fucking mosquito, right? 1.00

01:00:12.000 You know, you don't go, please, namaste, injure my blood. 1.00

01:00:16.000 It's the blood of a carrot eater.

01:00:18.000 No. 1.00

01:00:18.000 You fucking slap that fucker down, but there's a certain level. 1.00

01:00:22.000 Like, okay. 1.00

01:00:24.000 If an ant is on your food, a lot of times a vegan will kill that ant and what do you do with the body?

01:00:29.000 You throw it to the ground, you ignore it because it's little. 0.99

01:00:32.000 You just fucking kill an ant in my house and if you went like that and brushed it off, I wouldn't say a word. 0.99

01:00:38.000 I'd be like, Doug's doing some acceptable behavior. 1.00

01:00:41.000 He killed an ant that's on his pants and he dropped it on the ground. 1.00

01:00:43.000 But if a mouse ran across my kitchen and you stomped it and then ignored it, I'd be like, hey, fucker. 1.00

01:00:49.000 The fucking splatter of guts and hair you've left. 1.00

01:00:52.000 Right? 1.00

01:00:53.000 There's a weird hierarchy of living things.

01:00:56.000 And the line is clearly, I mean, one of the lines is fellow mammals.

01:01:02.000 And, you know, I don't even know what to say about that.

01:01:05.000 But not rats. 1.00

01:01:07.000 Fuck rats. 1.00

01:01:09.000 Rats have the Black Plague and all kinds of... 1.00

01:01:12.000 Nobody gives a shit if you fucking kill a rat in your garage. 1.00

01:01:16.000 If you're so hardcore you're not into killing rats, I got a great rat story. 1.00

01:01:20.000 I want to hear a rat story.

01:01:22.000 I was living in the hills and I rented this house and I had a real rat problem to the point where I'd hear them banging around inside the rafters.

01:01:30.000 They're big, man.

01:01:31.000 Like the hills around Los Angeles...

01:01:34.000 Los Angeles is a very strange place because you have this city Yeah.

01:01:46.000 This place that I lived had a rat problem. 1.00

01:01:48.000 So I set out a rat trap, and I killed this fucking big ass rat, like as big as my laptop. 1.00

01:01:54.000 It was huge, man. 1.00

01:01:56.000 It was no bullshit. 0.99

01:01:57.000 Like a snap trap? 0.99

01:01:58.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:01:59.000 Big fucker where you got to be real careful when you set it. 1.00

01:02:01.000 Because you take a finger off. 1.00

01:02:02.000 Definitely break one, right?

01:02:04.000 I set it out, and I heard it in my kitchen.

01:02:07.000 I was whack! 0.99

01:02:09.000 I'm like, oh shit, I got one. 1.00

01:02:10.000 And I went out there and I looked, and it's this big fucking fat boy rat. 1.00

01:02:15.000 I was like, oh jeez, look at the size of that thing. 0.99

01:02:18.000 So I said, okay, in the morning I'll get up and I'll put that thing in the garbage and whatever and deal with it.

01:02:23.000 I went to sleep. 1.00

01:02:24.000 I got up in the morning and that fucker was gone. 1.00

01:02:27.000 They ate him down to almost nothing. 1.00

01:02:30.000 All that was left is the tail.

01:02:32.000 So rats apparently don't even like rat tail, but they had eaten most of his body.

01:02:37.000 The rats had cannibalized most of his body. 1.00

01:02:40.000 That's why we say fuck rats. 1.00

01:02:42.000 Yeah, and if you see one rat, you got a dozen. 1.00

01:02:45.000 Oh, at least.

01:02:47.000 My house was overrun with them.

01:02:48.000 It was really bad.

01:02:50.000 Yeah, it was real bad, man.

01:02:51.000 It was like one of the first places I lived when I lived out here. 0.99

01:02:54.000 I was like, what the fuck is going on? 0.99

01:02:55.000 Because before that, I lived in New York, in New Rochelle, and my area, although New York City has a huge rat problem. 1.00

01:03:02.000 New York City's rat problem is crazy.

01:03:05.000 I parked my car once.

01:03:06.000 This was back in the days of phones, pay phones.

01:03:09.000 I didn't have a cell phone.

01:03:10.000 I parked my car at this gas station.

01:03:12.000 I was getting some gas, and I walked over to the pay phone.

01:03:15.000 And as I'm on the phone, I saw three rats jump up in my wheel wells, climb up over my tires. 0.95

01:03:22.000 Three big, fat rats. 0.90

01:03:23.000 Like, this place was overrun with rats. 0.98

01:03:25.000 They were looking to move or something.

01:03:27.000 They say if you see one rat...

01:03:29.000 I don't know.

01:03:30.000 Maybe check the numbers.

01:03:32.000 But if you see one...

01:03:34.000 I don't know if it's a hundred, or there's a hundred or a thousand, something like that.

01:03:37.000 Let's say 50 million.

01:03:38.000 Let's get crazy.

01:03:39.000 If you see one, there's 50 million around, you know?

01:03:41.000 Watch out.

01:03:42.000 Have you seen the pizza rat?

01:03:43.000 Have you seen this New York City pizza rat?

01:03:45.000 No! 0.98

01:03:47.000 There's a rat taking pizza home in New York. 0.95

01:03:48.000 You were just waiting for this, weren't you?

01:03:50.000 This is cool, but here's something that a lot of people don't know.

01:03:53.000 Rats are hunters.

01:03:55.000 Why don't you, Jamie, pull up Rat Kills Pigeon?

01:03:59.000 Because there's not just one video of these.

01:04:01.000 There's many videos of rats in New York City attacking and killing pigeons.

01:04:06.000 iPhone videos. 0.99

01:04:07.000 This is fucking bizarre. 0.99

01:04:09.000 I had no idea. 1.00

01:04:10.000 I had no idea they were predators.

01:04:11.000 Did you?

01:04:13.000 No.

01:04:13.000 Watch this.

01:04:14.000 Look at this.

01:04:15.000 Look. 1.00

01:04:16.000 Fucking rat is jacking this pigeon. 1.00

01:04:19.000 And the pigeon gets away and almost gets free. 1.00

01:04:23.000 What's going on here?

01:04:23.000 It's like they're a little laying prey.

01:04:26.000 So this rat has this pigeon by the neck.

01:04:30.000 This is a different one than I saw.

01:04:32.000 The one I saw, the pigeon gets away.

01:04:34.000 It's like near stairs.

01:04:35.000 And, oh yeah, here it is.

01:04:37.000 The pigeon tries to get away and the rat chases it down.

01:04:39.000 Look at this.

01:04:39.000 Because he's already winged him.

01:04:41.000 Yeah.

01:04:41.000 But look at this.

01:04:42.000 The rat chases a living pigeon.

01:04:44.000 Well, look at how the camera guy doesn't want it.

01:04:45.000 He's like, not getting too close.

01:04:47.000 The guy walking around with his iPhone.

01:04:49.000 I know what I'm going to do today.

01:04:50.000 But I would video that too, you know?

01:04:52.000 Oh, why wouldn't you? 1.00

01:04:53.000 Oh, fuck yeah. 1.00

01:04:53.000 What else are you going to do? 1.00

01:04:54.000 But I had no idea.

01:04:55.000 Did you know that rats were predators?

01:04:57.000 No, you know...

01:04:58.000 Opportunists, maybe.

01:05:00.000 But this is a predator.

01:05:01.000 It's chasing down an animal.

01:05:03.000 Yeah, no.

01:05:04.000 Always a problem with, you know, when you had grain around. 0.99

01:05:08.000 Look how strong he is. 0.99

01:05:09.000 He just jumped that fucking curb with that thing in its mouth like it was nothing. 0.99

01:05:13.000 There was one point he stood up on his hind legs with it in his mouth. 1.00

01:05:16.000 Fucking monsters. 1.00

01:05:17.000 We're so lucky they're little. 1.00

01:05:19.000 Imagine if a rat was the size of a deer.

01:05:22.000 Ooh.

01:05:24.000 Look, there it goes again.

01:05:25.000 He still tries to get away.

01:05:26.000 And he's on it.

01:05:27.000 Ooh, he's got its back.

01:05:28.000 That's good technique.

01:05:29.000 He's got the hooks in.

01:05:29.000 Joe, is that good technique?

01:05:30.000 That's very good.

01:05:31.000 Look at the back leg.

01:05:32.000 See how he's controlling?

01:05:34.000 Very good technique.

01:05:35.000 Oh, my God.

01:05:36.000 Jiu-jitsu.

01:05:37.000 Jiu-jitsu.

01:05:38.000 I had to mention something like that, because the only way my grandpa knows who I'm talking to is the fight guy.

01:05:42.000 That's how I explain to my grandpa.

01:05:44.000 Your grandpa likes watching fights?

01:05:45.000 Loves it.

01:05:46.000 Loves UFC. Like I said, he's the only guy in the nursing home that watches.

01:05:49.000 Wow.

01:05:50.000 93, going on 94. I'm freaking out all the other people.

01:05:57.000 It looks like that's it.

01:05:58.000 Rats are creeps.

01:05:59.000 Wow. 0.99

01:05:59.000 See, now if you caught that rat in a trap, nobody would get mad at you. 0.99

01:06:03.000 But if you shoot a bear, they'll fucking protest. 0.99

01:06:06.000 So I have a different story for you. 0.99

01:06:09.000 I had a house up in Door County, an old farmhouse, and no one lived in it for a long time.

01:06:14.000 And we had rats in that house. 0.87

01:06:16.000 But the other thing that we had in that house were snakes.

01:06:22.000 Sounds nasty.

01:06:23.000 My daughter's mother didn't like snakes at all. 1.00

01:06:25.000 She opened up the back door of the place one time, and it was, I don't know, I guess it was a fox snake because it was a big-ass snake.

01:06:31.000 And it's like knocking on the door, trying to get there.

01:06:34.000 There was a spot where they could get in.

01:06:35.000 When we started to remodel the place, Taking, you know, we put some beams up and we were taking some interior walls down.

01:06:43.000 Snake skins.

01:06:44.000 Oh, jeez.

01:06:45.000 It's not the wall.

01:06:47.000 I would, she's just probably, if she's listening to this, she's hearing that for the first time.

01:06:51.000 Because I didn't tell her, man, she wasn't there.

01:06:54.000 Oh, wow.

01:06:55.000 Snake skin and they're like three feet long, you know, where they molted or whatever the word is for it.

01:06:59.000 Snake farm, Douglas.

01:06:59.000 Oh, man.

01:07:00.000 But those aren't predators, right?

01:07:01.000 I mean, those aren't poisonous.

01:07:03.000 Well, they're predators on lice and they're probably in there for the rats.

01:07:06.000 It's probably good to have them.

01:07:08.000 You know?

01:07:09.000 Yeah.

01:07:09.000 Well, that's the thing about, like, in my neighborhood, I see hawks all the time.

01:07:14.000 And they're the ones that keep the population of rodents down.

01:07:17.000 You see them all the time, man. 0.99

01:07:18.000 They're fucking beautiful. 0.99

01:07:20.000 As do, in our area, this is a real thing that I struggle with a little bit, is coyotes. 0.99

01:07:27.000 People do coyote hunting around me.

01:07:30.000 And we were talking about wolves before.

01:07:32.000 And, I mean, I'm not physically, you know, I'm not worried about coyotes, like, taking us down or anything like that.

01:07:38.000 Right.

01:07:38.000 And I have this, in fact, talked to Yanis Patelis about it.

01:07:42.000 And his response to me talking about allowing coyote hunting on our place was, he goes, oh man, I just think they're trying to make a living too.

01:07:52.000 And, you know, they eat a lot of rodents.

01:07:54.000 They clean up a lot of the weak and the old of deer and that sort of thing.

01:08:01.000 But My buddy, Greg, who you may hear, Greg Kiefer, who you may hear, man, I'm a big dude, Steve talks about him all the time, recently had a deer run into his yard by a pack of coyotes, and they took it down and killed it in his yard.

01:08:16.000 Whoa.

01:08:17.000 It was a deer that had been wounded during the, well, we assume the gun season.

01:08:20.000 It had a big scar on the back of the neck.

01:08:22.000 I suppose it could have been an arrow that had cut it or something like that.

01:08:25.000 So it was weak or whatever.

01:08:26.000 And yeah, in the middle of the night, just went down in the middle of the night.

01:08:29.000 He went out there.

01:08:29.000 I couldn't believe it.

01:08:30.000 Never seen anything like that.

01:08:31.000 How many coyotes?

01:08:32.000 Well, based on, he didn't see how many, but it was, you know, they work in groups of two or three or four or five.

01:08:42.000 You know, I have a chicken coop in my yard and I went out in the middle of the night to shut the coop because I let the chickens out and they wander around and I closed the coop.

01:08:50.000 And when I closed the coop, I was just outside enjoying the peace, looking up at the stars, and I heard these deer running.

01:08:59.000 We're good to go.

01:09:06.000 We're good to go.

01:09:21.000 And I was like, this is so wild. 1.00

01:09:23.000 There's a house here, and this fucking asshole over here is watching The Bachelorette. 1.00

01:09:27.000 And inside, this guy pulls into his driveway, his Mercedes, he's smoking his e-cigarette, and some fucking tooth and claw shit is going on right there. 1.00

01:09:38.000 Right there, these coyotes are chasing down these deer. 0.99

01:09:40.000 Because there's a series of oak trees down the street from my house where these deer tend to bed.

01:09:45.000 I see them there all the time, and there's probably five or six of them.

01:09:49.000 But you'll see coyotes, especially come spring, when the fawns are being born. 0.99

01:09:55.000 You'll see these fuckers hanging around, just looking for an easy meal. 0.98

01:09:59.000 You know, guys who raise cattle around me will talk about, and I don't know, Nathan, if you know anything about this, but to my knowledge, I've never had a calf taken by a... 0.99

01:10:08.000 By coyotes or anything like that.

01:10:10.000 I have had a calf that was born and died.

01:10:13.000 You know, it was stillborn or something that wasn't there the next day.

01:10:17.000 So coyotes took it.

01:10:18.000 But the cow abandoned it too.

01:10:20.000 The one thing you do not want to mess with is a 1,450 pound Hereford cow who just had a calf.

01:10:26.000 She is not going to let you near that calf. 0.97

01:10:28.000 Get kicked by a cow?

01:10:30.000 I've only had pigs and chickens taken.

01:10:32.000 And that's only when the dogs, like, we forget and leave the dogs in for the night.

01:10:36.000 A piglet or an actual whole pig?

01:10:38.000 Piglet. 0.97

01:10:39.000 Piglet. 0.97

01:10:39.000 A full-grown pig would probably, especially if there's more than one, I'm sure they'd take care of themselves. 0.97

01:10:44.000 They're vicious.

01:10:45.000 They're so big. 0.93

01:10:45.000 I got bit by one of my pigs. 0.93

01:10:47.000 I mean, if I were to fall down in my pig pen... 1.00

01:10:49.000 You'd be fucked, right? 1.00

01:10:50.000 And if I couldn't get up, I mean, my wife would come home and there'd be nothing left of me. 1.00

01:10:54.000 Yeah. 0.94

01:10:55.000 Three, four pigs would have me done. 1.00

01:10:56.000 Yeah, that's real. 0.86

01:10:57.000 That's real.

01:10:58.000 Well, that's the number one.

01:11:00.000 Here's more statistics.

01:11:03.000 He's your number guy.

01:11:04.000 Is that the number 50% of people that have died?

01:11:07.000 It's the number one animal that kills people on farms. 1.00

01:11:09.000 Really? 0.97

01:11:10.000 Pigs. 0.97

01:11:11.000 Yeah, people fall.

01:11:12.000 Sometimes an old farmer will have a heart attack and fall into the pig's thigh and they just gobble them up. 0.93

01:11:18.000 For the first time, I actually saw one of my pigs eat a chicken.

01:11:21.000 Please Google that.

01:11:22.000 I couldn't save the chicken in time, so I was like, what am I going to do?

01:11:25.000 I don't want to save a half-mangled chicken.

01:11:28.000 So I let them finish it, but they systematically cornered the thing, and I'm running over, and then it was over.

01:11:33.000 It was too late.

01:11:34.000 I had a coyote take a chicken from my yard.

01:11:36.000 I watched it hop the fence, but it's in its mouth.

01:11:37.000 It was crazy. 1.00

01:11:38.000 And I was gonna kill the fucker, but then I realized it was a female, and then it had cubs. 1.00

01:11:44.000 A lot of the yiping and hollering that you hear, people think... 1.00

01:11:48.000 There's a lot of misconceptions about coyotes, and one of them is that when you ever hear that, that there's some sort of a party.

01:11:54.000 A lot of it is a mother communicating with her young.

01:11:57.000 And I was pretty sure that this was what happened because my dog had let this female near the chickens. 0.99

01:12:04.000 Like the dog had sort of like aided and abetted this coyote killing this chicken.

01:12:09.000 And then I realized like, oh, this is a female that has babies. 1.00

01:12:13.000 So that's where your soft spot was then. 1.00

01:12:16.000 Yeah, I'm a pussy. 1.00

01:12:16.000 When you hear that sound though, I mean when my wife first moved down to our farm, I mean, it sounds like there are a pack of children being murdered. 1.00

01:12:25.000 Yeah, it's weird.

01:12:26.000 And it's still night, like out where we are, and it just resonates.

01:12:31.000 That's good.

01:12:32.000 That's weird.

01:12:32.000 I have a relatively new friend out in Washington who has actually been emailing me and asking me for advice about coyotes, trapping coyotes.

01:12:44.000 Do you know anything about trapping coyotes?

01:12:45.000 Talk to Ranella.

01:12:47.000 He recommends subsonic.22s.

01:12:49.000 Yeah.

01:12:51.000 I'm more a fan of shooting and trapping.

01:12:53.000 Wildlife ecologists I know in Wisconsin, when people would start to talk to him about, you know, I'm trying to get rid of this animal or whatever, having to make a woodchuck or something like that, he would always recommend a small piece of lead at a very high velocity.

01:13:07.000 Yeah.

01:13:08.000 Yeah, well, that's what a buddy of mine does.

01:13:11.000 He sets out cat food.

01:13:12.000 He puts cat food.

01:13:13.000 These coyotes that were targeting his dogs.

01:13:16.000 So he would set out plates of cat food and sit on his balcony and just wait.

01:13:21.000 Yeah, you can call him in too. 0.99

01:13:22.000 Yeah, you can call him in with predator calls, but you might call him some other shit too. 0.99

01:13:27.000 Depends on where you are. 0.99

01:13:27.000 Around these parts, man. 0.99

01:13:28.000 We were talking about this yesterday, that they just did this study of all these different mountain lions that they've killed.

01:13:35.000 Here's some more numbers.

01:13:36.000 I think they killed like 100 mountain lions in the San Francisco area, northern California area.

01:13:42.000 And out of these mountain lions that they killed, most of them had cats and dogs in their bodies.

01:13:48.000 Oh yeah, that's a big thing.

01:13:49.000 They're finding out that this is what these things are eating.

01:13:50.000 Only 5% of them had deer in their body.

01:13:53.000 Well, it's easier.

01:13:55.000 But it's bizarre.

01:13:56.000 I mean, they're targeting people's pets.

01:14:00.000 I mean, that's their food. 0.99

01:14:01.000 It's fucking weird, man. 0.98

01:14:03.000 In Madison, Wisconsin, where I live, on the edges of town, and we actually live near two parks. 0.99

01:14:10.000 We have coyotes. 0.99

01:14:13.000 Yeah, there's a certain group of folks who are like, well, you know, they're just out there trying to make a living, too, until, you know, mittens and fifi get eaten.

01:14:20.000 Then we've got a little situation we have to deal with.

01:14:23.000 You've got to make up a story for the kids at that point.

01:14:25.000 It's a bizarre thing to see your cat in the jaws of a coyote as it's running away.

01:14:30.000 You know, there's the LA Museum of National History has this really cool exhibit on North American animals, and their exhibit, I had a picture of it on my Instagram, Jamie, of the coyote. 0.98

01:14:41.000 Their exhibit of the coyote in Los Angeles is a coyote with a fucking cat in its mouth. 0.89

01:14:46.000 That's in the Museum of Natural History in Los Angeles. 0.93

01:14:51.000 The actual, you know, they have stuffed animals, they have buffalo, they show moose, and they have these, you know, so you can get to see, oh, that's what one of those looks like.

01:14:58.000 Yeah.

01:14:59.000 Well, they have these displays of these stuffed animals. 0.99

01:15:00.000 So the coyote has a fucking cat in its mouth and it's on someone's porch. 0.99

01:15:04.000 Look at this. 1.00

01:15:06.000 That's in the National History.

01:15:08.000 That's the museum. 1.00

01:15:09.000 Fucking cat. 1.00

01:15:10.000 Dead cat. 1.00

01:15:11.000 And my kids were like this.

01:15:12.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:15:14.000 They're like, um, daddy, it's the only fucking animal that's killing something in the entire museum. 1.00

01:15:19.000 This is the animal that's killing... 0.99

01:15:21.000 For a minute there, I thought that was the notes from the museum, and then I realized it was that you had written.

01:15:28.000 Yeah, see... 0.99

01:15:29.000 They're saying fucker in the National History Museum? 0.99

01:15:32.000 No, but look what these people are saying. 1.00

01:15:33.000 Look at this guy. 1.00

01:15:33.000 My cat was just killed by one of these fuckers, you know? 1.00

01:15:37.000 I'll shoot a coyote for no reason other than it's a coyote. 1.00

01:15:40.000 Fuck a coyote. 1.00

01:15:40.000 Yeah, and they're right, man. 1.00

01:15:42.000 Those are little creepers.

01:15:43.000 Little creepers.

01:15:45.000 Look at this.

01:15:46.000 What does it say?

01:15:48.000 Swine likely kill fewer people than cattle do, but there's no reliable data.

01:15:52.000 20 people a year killed by cattle, it said.

01:15:55.000 Whoa.

01:15:55.000 Find out how many people killed by pigs.

01:15:57.000 I couldn't find any but one story recently.

01:16:00.000 One guy in Oregon.

01:16:01.000 I would guess that that number's a little bit higher.

01:16:04.000 I mean, personally, I know...

01:16:07.000 Two people have been killed by bulls.

01:16:09.000 Yeah, well, bulls, especially solitary bulls. 1.00

01:16:13.000 You know, the old expression is, you fuck with the bull, you get the horn. 1.00

01:16:16.000 I would imagine that happens. 0.99

01:16:18.000 I was milking for a farmer one time, and one of the things with dairy farming, and I grew up dairy farming, but if a cow has a stepped-on teat, we usually say tit, but I guess it doesn't matter now.

01:16:31.000 But they have a stepped-on teat, or they get mastitis, which is a sort of infection.

01:16:37.000 It's very sore, obviously.

01:16:39.000 So you gotta strap up the milker and not put it on that one.

01:16:45.000 And I was in a hurry.

01:16:45.000 I was late for my other job, so I'm trying to hurry and I forgot about this one cow.

01:16:49.000 And this guy's cow didn't go in the right stall, so my head wasn't where it needed to be.

01:16:52.000 Anyway.

01:16:52.000 I put the milker on the bad tit.

01:16:56.000 And she kicked me so hard. 1.00

01:16:58.000 She kicked me in the face, and then I flew back into the metal post. 1.00

01:17:02.000 I mean, I was out for a good 20 minutes, you know, and you wake up in a daze.

01:17:06.000 I mean, so that's one example of how somebody could easily be killed by a cow.

01:17:11.000 But they're so big.

01:17:12.000 You know what I mean?

01:17:13.000 All you have to do is fall, and one stomps you, and that's it.

01:17:17.000 Well, again, it goes back to the calving thing.

01:17:19.000 Our neighbor, the guy who I used to, well, he still does some farming for us, cuts and rakes and bales our hay, was almost killed by a cow that just freshened, just had a calf, and he went in there to deal with the calf, and she got him into a corner and beat the snot out of him.

01:17:37.000 Eventually, he was able to crawl out and get under a gate, and this is normally a very nice animal, you know. 0.98

01:17:47.000 So, it's funny to tell that story when I've been sending you all this shit about how nice my cows are and I can scratch their heads and stuff. 0.99

01:17:55.000 Well, we were talking about that because I said that when we were around your cows, they fucking panicked and they ran off. 0.98

01:18:00.000 But you brought up an important point. 0.99

01:18:01.000 We were shooting squirrels.

01:18:03.000 No, you were shooting pigeons.

01:18:04.000 They were shooting pigeons.

01:18:05.000 I didn't think we had shot an Was there a lot of you, though, too?

01:18:08.000 There's a lot of you guys?

01:18:09.000 There's a few.

01:18:09.000 There were four guys.

01:18:10.000 Four guys.

01:18:11.000 Okay.

01:18:12.000 Brian Cowen might have been singing.

01:18:13.000 Loud.

01:18:14.000 He was singing already.

01:18:15.000 And you guys smell different. 0.82

01:18:17.000 I wouldn't let strangers in with mine. 1.00

01:18:20.000 I wouldn't want that.

01:18:21.000 What happened that day is a couple of different things that happened.

01:18:26.000 You know, factually you were correct.

01:18:27.000 What happened was you went into their pasture.

01:18:30.000 Well, they weren't out in pasture.

01:18:31.000 We had them in a barnyard because we'd been hunting, and I didn't want them out on the pasture where they would be and that sort of thing.

01:18:39.000 There is that video of that, and you see as you guys are walking in, and I never even thought about this then, Joe.

01:18:46.000 I was like, I should probably go out there.

01:18:47.000 The cattle will be a little calmer if I'm with them.

01:18:50.000 But, you know, I was afraid that Brian was going to fall through the floor of them.

01:18:55.000 Show any metal.

01:18:56.000 Here's where you can't buy it.

01:18:57.000 Good Lord.

01:18:58.000 And I wanted to throw rocks, too.

01:19:01.000 As you're walking out there, they all turn and look at you as you're walking in because it's on that outtake.

01:19:07.000 And then when you start shooting, they're all down in the corner being very in a defensive position.

01:19:13.000 And the analogy I think I use to you is imagine you're at home having dinner and four dudes walk into your house with cameras and guns, talking loud, doing their whole thing.

01:19:26.000 And then they start shooting.

01:19:28.000 Well, I'm guessing that you're going to probably go to a corner of the house in the defensive position.

01:19:32.000 No doubt, once this shooting started happening.

01:19:35.000 Jamie, I just pulled this up.

01:19:37.000 There's more people were killed by pigs in 2014 than were killed by sharks.

01:19:42.000 Sharks get a bad rap.

01:19:43.000 Last year, it says there were 12 fatal pig attacks worldwide versus 10 shark fatalities.

01:19:51.000 So.

01:19:52.000 Huh.

01:19:52.000 Different stats, I guess.

01:19:53.000 Different websites.

01:19:54.000 I was looking up on-farm specifically.

01:19:56.000 Okay.

01:19:56.000 I think they're talking about wild pigs, actually.

01:20:01.000 Which I didn't know wild pigs kill that many people. 1.00

01:20:03.000 They're fucking creepers, though. 1.00

01:20:05.000 Have you ever been around wild pigs? 1.00

01:20:06.000 I actually have not.

01:20:07.000 Man, I was in Tejon Ranch with Rinella, and we were walking down this road, and we were pig hunting, and we got close to these pigs, and they didn't know we were there because there's this really thick brush and grasses, and we heard them fighting.

01:20:17.000 And they were...

01:20:20.000 Less than 20 yards away.

01:20:21.000 And they're going to war.

01:20:24.000 And I'm like, these are demons, man. 1.00

01:20:25.000 They're fucking demons. 1.00

01:20:26.000 They sound like monsters. 1.00

01:20:27.000 They sound like something from the Lord of the Rings.

01:20:30.000 And they're attacking each other for whatever reason.

01:20:33.000 Like, right there. 0.99

01:20:34.000 I'm like, God, there's fucking creepy things. 1.00

01:20:36.000 With their giant tusks and their black hair. 1.00

01:20:39.000 They look like demons. 1.00

01:20:40.000 And they sound crazy. 0.51

01:20:42.000 If you hear one, you go, oh, okay.

01:20:45.000 That's how the king in the Game of Thrones died.

01:20:47.000 Remember?

01:20:48.000 Yeah.

01:20:48.000 Did you ever watch that show?

01:20:49.000 No.

01:20:50.000 How dare you?

01:20:50.000 How dare you say no?

01:20:51.000 He was killed by a boar, a wild boar.

01:20:53.000 Spoiler alert.

01:20:54.000 Season one.

01:20:56.000 That's not what I watch it on.

01:20:58.000 Yeah, well, it doesn't matter.

01:20:59.000 They don't have to, Doug.

01:21:00.000 He dies quick.

01:21:01.000 He dies early in the show.

01:21:03.000 But he was killed by a wild boar, and that's not uncommon.

01:21:07.000 They're big animals, man.

01:21:08.000 They get real big.

01:21:09.000 Fair enough.

01:21:11.000 You know?

01:21:11.000 You're going out there with them?

01:21:12.000 You're not going to refute that?

01:21:13.000 Yeah.

01:21:14.000 Well, that's...

01:21:15.000 They're a very different animal.

01:21:16.000 I mean, deer have killed people.

01:21:18.000 It has happened.

01:21:19.000 Not just car accidents, but they have gored people.

01:21:21.000 Yeah.

01:21:21.000 It has happened.

01:21:22.000 It is possible.

01:21:23.000 Yeah.

01:21:23.000 It's very rare, obviously.

01:21:25.000 Usually, they just want to get the fuck away from you. 0.97

01:21:26.000 Yep. 0.99

01:21:27.000 But, you know, they're wild.

01:21:30.000 They're animals.

01:21:31.000 They don't play by our rules.

01:21:32.000 And I think we have a real problem in this world with our idea of what an animal is.

01:21:37.000 You know, we anthropomorphize these things.

01:21:38.000 We think of them the same way we think about our pets. 0.91

01:21:41.000 When you have a dog and you think of your dog the same way you think of a wild bear, like, boy, they're playing on some fucking completely different fields. 0.98

01:21:48.000 Yeah. 0.95

01:21:48.000 They have a completely different rule book. 0.95

01:21:50.000 Yeah.

01:21:51.000 And we like to think that we're not animals.

01:21:53.000 And that kind of disconnects us.

01:21:55.000 And that's where the disengagement and the disconnection with our food supply comes from.

01:22:01.000 We're above it.

01:22:02.000 That's our psyche.

01:22:04.000 Well, we're also just not used to being around them.

01:22:07.000 Most people are not around wild animals ever, ever.

01:22:12.000 The great majority of people that live in cities are virtually never around anything other than pigeons and squirrels.

01:22:17.000 They're just not around them.

01:22:19.000 So our ideas of wild animals are like these beautiful things that you rarely see.

01:22:23.000 Why would you want to kill one?

01:22:25.000 Yeah, you know, and the interesting point about squirrels, urban squirrels versus wood squirrels.

01:22:32.000 We shot a couple more episodes of Meat Eater that'll be coming out here in the next couple of weeks.

01:22:37.000 And we took Helen and Brittany squirrel hunting, and their experience mostly with squirrels was urban.

01:22:44.000 And Helen had this, wow, they're way different than urban squirrels.

01:22:49.000 They're like not coming down.

01:22:50.000 And of course, Brittany was talking about rubbing acorns on her body, and maybe they'll come out and stuff like that. 1.00

01:22:56.000 But...

01:22:58.000 Completely different.

01:22:59.000 Wild animals, they're out there making a living.

01:23:01.000 They're out there surviving that whole thing.

01:23:03.000 They aren't going to react the same way.

01:23:06.000 To human beings walk into their woods.

01:23:08.000 Well, the animals are pliable.

01:23:10.000 They're flexible, just like people are.

01:23:12.000 And if you start feeding wild animals, they kind of become domesticated.

01:23:15.000 There's a park right down here in North Hollywood.

01:23:17.000 You can sit down in the park, and if you bring a bag of peanuts, the squirrels will literally come and take them from your hands like a little baby.

01:23:24.000 And it's cool, you know?

01:23:26.000 I mean, those are different animals, you know?

01:23:29.000 Like the deer in my yard.

01:23:31.000 My buddy came over one day, and there was this deer standing there.

01:23:35.000 Just standing.

01:23:35.000 And he's like, dude, I didn't think that was a real deer.

01:23:37.000 I thought you were fucking with me. 0.99

01:23:39.000 Because he came over to my house. 0.99

01:23:40.000 We were going to work out, and there's this deer standing there.

01:23:43.000 I go, look at that. 0.99

01:23:43.000 And he goes, what the fuck is that? 0.99

01:23:45.000 I go, it's a deer. 1.00

01:23:46.000 He's like, that's a real deer?

01:23:47.000 Because he's a buck.

01:23:49.000 And he's just standing there looking at us. 0.99

01:23:51.000 And he goes, okay, would you shoot that buck? 1.00

01:23:53.000 I go, fuck no. 1.00

01:23:54.000 That thing might as well be a pet. 1.00

01:23:56.000 If I was starving, I'd shoot it. 0.97

01:23:58.000 But that thing is not worried about me at all.

01:24:01.000 It has never been attacked by a person.

01:24:03.000 It doesn't associate people with danger.

01:24:06.000 They're just standing there staring at me. 0.96

01:24:07.000 You can't kill them. 1.00

01:24:09.000 You can't kill them. 1.00

01:24:10.000 That's fucked up. 1.00

01:24:12.000 You can if you have to survive, but that's not a game animal. 0.99

01:24:16.000 Yeah.

01:24:17.000 We have a rule.

01:24:19.000 I don't think that you were up by my cabin, but Brian was. 0.94

01:24:23.000 And my wife said, you know, can you not kill him right here by the cabin?

01:24:29.000 You have a rule. 0.97

01:24:30.000 We have a rule.

01:24:31.000 But you had a beaver that you guys killed right there, right?

01:24:35.000 Oh, that beaver that we ate?

01:24:36.000 No, that was up on a creek not far from there.

01:24:40.000 That's okay?

01:24:41.000 She allows the beavers to die? 1.00

01:24:43.000 Yeah.

01:24:44.000 Well, yeah, she allows the muskrats to die, too, burrow into the dam and cause all kinds of damage. 0.99

01:24:49.000 Oh, so you want them to die.

01:24:50.000 Yeah, you get rid of them because they're causing the issues. 1.00

01:24:54.000 By the way, how good is that goddamn beaver taste? 0.99

01:24:57.000 Absolutely, bar none, best wild meat I've ever eaten. 0.99

01:25:01.000 Really?

01:25:01.000 It's fantastic.

01:25:02.000 Well, the way Rinella cooked it, he braised it and then slow cooked it like a stew.

01:25:07.000 And I'm telling you, man, it was like...

01:25:10.000 The best beef stew you've ever had in your life.

01:25:12.000 Rich and flavorful.

01:25:15.000 And again, just like we're talking about with organic beef versus regular corn-fed, this is a wild animal with a wild, natural diet and a real healthy, big, fat beaver.

01:25:26.000 So texture-wise, I've ate raccoon.

01:25:29.000 It was like beef.

01:25:31.000 Raccoon's a whole other ballgame.

01:25:33.000 You ate raccoon?

01:25:34.000 Well, it's a wild game thing.

01:25:36.000 I mean, bear.

01:25:37.000 Seriously.

01:25:39.000 One of the worst things.

01:25:40.000 Oh, hell yes.

01:25:41.000 What? 1.00

01:25:41.000 Fucking Wisconsin. 1.00

01:25:42.000 I'm taking the shirt off. 1.00

01:25:45.000 I noticed there's not a beaver in the middle of it.

01:25:47.000 Start a beaver farm.

01:25:49.000 There you go.

01:25:50.000 Sustainable beaver.

01:25:51.000 When did you eat a raccoon, man?

01:25:52.000 Just at game feeds.

01:25:53.000 You know, they do it.

01:25:54.000 We have bear feeds like, you know, Packers Bears Weekend.

01:25:58.000 They'll have a bear feed at the local tavern.

01:25:59.000 And, you know, people bring in all their stuff too.

01:26:01.000 Wild game, snake. 1.00

01:26:03.000 Hold the fuck on. 1.00

01:26:04.000 First of all, let me just explain to people that are only listening. 1.00

01:26:07.000 I asked...

01:26:12.000 I ask Nate, I go, when have you eaten a raccoon?

01:26:15.000 And Doug throws his hands up like I'm like, when have you had french fries? 1.00

01:26:20.000 Like, it's a fucking raccoon, man! 1.00

01:26:22.000 It's been a long time. 1.00

01:26:23.000 It's been a long time.

01:26:24.000 That's true.

01:26:25.000 So, do you have a bear what?

01:26:27.000 Well, every once in a while, when it's Packers-Bears, you know, big rivalry.

01:26:32.000 You eat a bear?

01:26:32.000 You know, they'll have a local tavern.

01:26:34.000 They'll have Newman's Bar and Grill.

01:26:35.000 We'll plug those guys down in Hill Point, you know.

01:26:38.000 They've had bear feeds, you know, for the Bears game, you know.

01:26:42.000 There's a connection.

01:26:43.000 And they'll, you know, people bring other stuff.

01:26:45.000 So they'll have a bear feed?

01:26:47.000 I've had rattlesnake.

01:26:48.000 It's a feed.

01:26:48.000 Yeah.

01:26:49.000 A feed, but you're calling it a feed. 1.00

01:26:50.000 You know, like a steak feed or a, you know, it's just a, you feed a bunch of people and they sit down and get drunk and eat a bunch of shit. 0.99

01:26:56.000 Well, how are they cooking the bear? 0.99

01:26:57.000 What are they doing?

01:26:57.000 Probably roasting it, you know?

01:26:59.000 I mean, I've never cooked one, yeah.

01:27:02.000 So they just have a gigantic bear that they barbecue.

01:27:04.000 Well, no, no, no.

01:27:05.000 I mean, it's parted up and, you know, that sort of thing.

01:27:07.000 It's good.

01:27:08.000 Well, bear is real tricky, right?

01:27:09.000 You got to make sure that you cook it to the right temperature.

01:27:12.000 Yep.

01:27:12.000 In Wisconsin as well?

01:27:14.000 Oh, yeah.

01:27:14.000 It's everywhere, isn't it?

01:27:16.000 Trichinosis?

01:27:16.000 It's a concern.

01:27:17.000 Yeah.

01:27:18.000 So, yeah, it's sort of a Wisconsin tradition.

01:27:21.000 I saw your eyes light up when you heard raccoon.

01:27:24.000 Game feed.

01:27:25.000 I mean, there might be, and it could be bear, it could be...

01:27:28.000 Back in the day when there was more, when...

01:27:32.000 The raccoon hides were more valuable, and there's an ebb and flow to that market, of course.

01:27:38.000 Well, you've got all these hides, and what do you do with the carcasses?

01:27:41.000 Right.

01:27:42.000 So a certain amount of them are being eaten.

01:27:45.000 What does it taste like?

01:27:47.000 It's pretty greasy.

01:27:48.000 Yeah, it's really greasy.

01:27:50.000 Was it a good grease?

01:27:51.000 Is it good for you?

01:27:53.000 It's one of those things.

01:27:54.000 There's a little gaminess to it.

01:27:55.000 It's one of those things you've got to get used to it.

01:27:58.000 And I don't eat enough bear meat to get used to it.

01:28:00.000 I like bear.

01:28:01.000 No, I've had bear.

01:28:02.000 I'm talking about raccoon.

01:28:03.000 Oh, raccoon.

01:28:03.000 Oh, I'm sorry.

01:28:04.000 Are you talking about bear or raccoon?

01:28:07.000 Oh, I way prefer bear.

01:28:10.000 Yeah, raccoon is super gamey.

01:28:12.000 It's kind of nutty in a weird way.

01:28:13.000 I didn't think that bear was greasy at all.

01:28:15.000 Bear, to me, tasted almost like a beef.

01:28:18.000 Where did you...

01:28:19.000 Alberta.

01:28:20.000 Yeah.

01:28:21.000 So, what's that?

01:28:22.000 In Wisconsin, in the Midwest, where there's hunting going on, they're doing a lot of baiting of them with old donuts and stuff like that.

01:28:32.000 And I remember Steve talking about...

01:28:34.000 I've never...

01:28:35.000 I've never bear hunted anywhere.

01:28:38.000 How he doesn't like taking spring bears because they're eating old.

01:28:45.000 Whatever the timing is of salmon.

01:28:47.000 The blueberry bears.

01:28:48.000 He loves the blueberry bears because their meat tastes like what they ate.

01:28:52.000 Right.

01:28:53.000 Holy moly!

01:28:54.000 That's what we're talking about!

01:28:55.000 Isn't that crazy though?

01:28:56.000 You know, Rinella's show, have you ever seen that show where you shot...

01:28:59.000 I haven't.

01:29:00.000 I haven't.

01:29:00.000 I don't watch much TV at all.

01:29:03.000 Well, he shot a bear in Alaska in the fall, and it had been just feasting on blueberries.

01:29:08.000 And he was saying that this is the best meat bar none in the world.

01:29:12.000 Bar none.

01:29:12.000 And he was saying that you open this bear up and you smell blueberries.

01:29:16.000 And it's like a sweet-tasting meat.

01:29:19.000 And it just really...

01:29:21.000 I mean, you eat a burger, you don't think about it.

01:29:24.000 You drink a soda, you don't think about it.

01:29:25.000 But that is your cells.

01:29:26.000 You are literally supplying nutrients to your cells, to your food.

01:29:30.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:29:30.000 And when you eat, like, I used to work with this dude who used to drink a lot of carrot juice and his fucking hands turned orange. 0.99

01:29:36.000 Like, his skin started turning orange because he was eating, like, three or four glasses of carrot juice a day. 0.94

01:29:41.000 How orange are we talking? 0.99

01:29:42.000 Orange as fuck. 0.99

01:29:43.000 Like, weird. 0.99

01:29:43.000 Like, spray tan. 0.99

01:29:44.000 Like, Jersey Shore.

01:29:45.000 Cheetos.

01:29:46.000 Orange or?

01:29:47.000 No, like an orange like a carrot, you know?

01:29:49.000 He made a jerk-off motion. 0.99

01:29:50.000 I don't know why you jerk off with Cheetos. 0.99

01:29:51.000 I don't know why that was either. 1.00

01:29:52.000 How do you connect jerking off with Cheetos? 0.98

01:29:55.000 Well, that's a joke, you know. 0.99

01:29:57.000 Okay.

01:29:57.000 It is?

01:29:59.000 I don't understand. 0.99

01:30:00.000 Cheetos and jerking off? 0.99

01:30:01.000 Like, what do you mean? 0.99

01:30:01.000 Well, it's kind of one of those things, you know. 0.99

01:30:04.000 Is it like a bear feed?

01:30:05.000 Like, you've got to be in Wisconsin to understand it?

01:30:07.000 Yes.

01:30:07.000 You know, Cheetos.

01:30:08.000 I give you a bag of Cheetos.

01:30:09.000 It's one of our pastimes.

01:30:10.000 You go in the bathroom and I hear grunting.

01:30:12.000 It's one of our pastimes.

01:30:12.000 I don't know, man.

01:30:13.000 There's some stuff about this guy I didn't know before I brought him along.

01:30:20.000 Well, Cheetos.

01:30:22.000 Forget Cheetos.

01:30:23.000 Forget Cheetos. 0.98

01:30:24.000 If you're eating Cheetos all day or potato chips or whatever the fuck it is, that is literally supplying your cells. 0.98

01:30:29.000 And we don't think about it that way. 0.99

01:30:31.000 We just think about this tastes good.

01:30:33.000 I am me.

01:30:33.000 I am Doug.

01:30:34.000 Doug eats cheeseburger because cheeseburger tastes good.

01:30:37.000 But a cheeseburger literally is supplying your body.

01:30:39.000 You know, I started this diet recently.

01:30:41.000 It's called the Primal Blueprint Diet.

01:30:44.000 This guy on the podcast named Mark Sisson, and he is an advocate of no grains.

01:30:49.000 No bread, no pasta, no rice, no nothing.

01:30:52.000 Mostly fats.

01:30:53.000 You get your fats from avocados, from healthy fats, from beef and chicken or whatever the fuck you eat, and coconut oil, things along those lines, MCT oil.

01:31:03.000 And I've been on it now for two weeks, and it's pretty fascinating.

01:31:08.000 Pretty fascinating.

01:31:09.000 First of all, it took me a while to adjust from going on a carbohydrate-based energy to a fat-based energy, getting my energy from fats.

01:31:19.000 My body fat's decreased pretty significantly.

01:31:22.000 I lost at least six pounds now.

01:31:25.000 And I'm eating normal amounts.

01:31:28.000 But I'm just eating fat and proteins and a lot of vegetables.

01:31:32.000 And no sugars at all.

01:31:33.000 None.

01:31:34.000 Zero.

01:31:34.000 I'm not eating any processed sugar.

01:31:37.000 I eat an occasional piece of fruit, blueberries and things along those lines.

01:31:41.000 But it's mostly vegetables and meat that I'm eating.

01:31:43.000 And a lot of avocados.

01:31:45.000 Wow.

01:31:46.000 My cells, obviously, are getting nutrients off of this, off of healthy fats.

01:31:52.000 And what he found is he had arthritis.

01:31:54.000 He also had irritable bowel syndrome.

01:31:56.000 Those things went away when he cut grains out of his diet and we stopped eating processed sugar.

01:32:01.000 So it was like inflammation type thing.

01:32:03.000 Yeah, inflammation.

01:32:04.000 Yeah.

01:32:05.000 And that these healthy fats, like healthy fats for your body, like coconut oil, things along those lines, is really the best fuel for your body.

01:32:13.000 And your body gets into a state of ketosis, which takes about two weeks, which I just started getting into.

01:32:18.000 I just started getting into the state of ketosis.

01:32:20.000 And your body, once it reaches this state of ketosis, gets its energy primarily from fat.

01:32:25.000 And it's a more normal, natural way for your body to respond.

01:32:29.000 And your body can shift.

01:32:31.000 Your body is very flexible.

01:32:32.000 It can shift from a glucose-based, carbohydrate-based fuel system to a fat-based fuel system.

01:32:38.000 So this is what my body has just started to do.

01:32:40.000 And I committed to this.

01:32:42.000 I was going to do a month, but I just decided to make it two months.

01:32:44.000 So I'm committing to this for two months, and I'm going to talk about it and see what it's like.

01:32:47.000 But I'm sold two weeks in. 0.98

01:32:49.000 I don't like it in the fact that if I go to a restaurant and someone's got spaghetti and meatballs next to me, I'm like, fuck, I can't eat the meatballs. 1.00

01:32:58.000 Fuck, I can't eat spaghetti. 0.99

01:32:59.000 Like, I can't eat any sugar, no desserts. 1.00

01:33:02.000 Does that seem different to you?

01:33:04.000 What I mean is when you smell like a carbohydrate like that...

01:33:09.000 Like a craving?

01:33:10.000 It's all of a sudden, whoa!

01:33:11.000 Whereas maybe not so much before?

01:33:13.000 No, it's the opposite.

01:33:14.000 This is what's really strange about it.

01:33:16.000 What they've said, what people have hypothesized and the theories are that your gut bacteria controls a lot of your appetite.

01:33:24.000 And this is one of the reasons why I used to be stuffed, like stuffed at the end of a meal and I would still want sugar.

01:33:30.000 I'd still want some candy, or I'd still...

01:33:33.000 Yeah, right?

01:33:33.000 That's me, man.

01:33:34.000 It's awful, right?

01:33:35.000 You still want some pie? 1.00

01:33:36.000 Oh, bring that fucking pie over there. 1.00

01:33:39.000 Well, now I don't. 1.00

01:33:40.000 It's weird.

01:33:41.000 Because of this shift, my body, taking plenty of probiotics, drinking a lot of kombucha, things along those lines, taking some probiotic supplements, you introduce healthy bacteria into your stomach and your gut, and because of that,

01:33:56.000 it shifts what you're hungry for.

01:34:00.000 It's very strange.

01:34:01.000 Like, bread to me looks like, why don't you eat stuffing out of a mattress?

01:34:05.000 Like, it looks like nonsense to me.

01:34:07.000 It's very strange, because I used to see, like, bread.

01:34:10.000 Someone bring out, like, a restaurant, nice loaf of bread and butter.

01:34:13.000 I'm like, oh, give me that. 0.99

01:34:14.000 And I'd be all excited, slap some butter on that bitch and eat it up. 1.00

01:34:18.000 Now I look at him like, that's not even food. 1.00

01:34:19.000 Like, it doesn't register to me as food.

01:34:22.000 In a two-week period of time, you had that thing.

01:34:23.000 Two weeks. 1.00

01:34:24.000 And you were such an unhealthy son of a bitch before that. 1.00

01:34:28.000 I'm saying, I mean... 1.00

01:34:29.000 I think part of it must be psychological that I've decided that this isn't food, that I've made a shift in my mind because I'm not eating it.

01:34:36.000 I haven't eaten it in two weeks.

01:34:37.000 But I think there's a real good argument that it's gut bacteria.

01:34:41.000 That's a big part of it.

01:34:42.000 Because the sugar, like, they had, like, a dessert tray thing, and they brought it out at a restaurant I was at the other day.

01:34:47.000 You know, like, at a fancy place, they bring you, like, would you like this?

01:34:51.000 Is this one here and this one here?

01:34:53.000 There'll be apropylene and...

01:34:54.000 None of it looked good.

01:34:55.000 It all looked like nonsense to me.

01:34:57.000 Whereas before, I'd be like, what? 1.00

01:34:58.000 Am I gonna fuck my body? 1.00

01:34:59.000 I gotta figure this out. 1.00

01:35:01.000 I gotta take this home with me.

01:35:03.000 Very interesting stuff.

01:35:04.000 And I wanted to experiment with it because the guy was fascinating.

01:35:08.000 He's very intelligent.

01:35:09.000 And I said, well, what does it hurt for me to try this out?

01:35:12.000 I thought it'd be an interesting topic of discussion to do it for, you know, 60 days or so.

01:35:17.000 And then maybe even have him back on or have someone else on that advocates it.

01:35:20.000 And I've read people that advocate carbohydrate-rich diets.

01:35:23.000 And it seems to me that your body is pretty flexible and your body can exist on a bunch of different types of fuel.

01:35:29.000 People get really dogmatic about it.

01:35:31.000 You have to do it this way.

01:35:33.000 You have to do it that way.

01:35:36.000 I think there's also biodiversity.

01:35:39.000 Different people come from different climates.

01:35:41.000 They come from different parts of the world originally.

01:35:42.000 Their ancestors did.

01:35:44.000 I think their bodies have become more acclimated to those types of foods.

01:35:48.000 That was the big issue with Native Americans when the Europeans showed up with alcohol. 0.99

01:35:53.000 They literally didn't have the genes to process this stuff. 0.99

01:35:57.000 Whereas Irish people process that shit like that, you know? 1.00

01:36:02.000 It's interesting that you said that about probiotics because I've been taking a probiotic for about 18 months now. 0.99

01:36:08.000 All the places where I got this advice was from my accountant.

01:36:12.000 Wow.

01:36:13.000 Yeah.

01:36:14.000 He's a buddy?

01:36:15.000 Or he's like, I went over your taxes and what you need is...

01:36:20.000 No, it's one of her clients, but I had been sick, and she said something about probiotics.

01:36:26.000 And honest to God, 18 months, I've been taking a probiotic every morning, and I haven't done anything else different, but I've been...

01:36:35.000 Not necessarily healthier, but less ill.

01:36:38.000 Not ill at all, really.

01:36:40.000 There's an article I read once about skin flora, and it was in regards to grappling.

01:36:47.000 Because with jiu-jitsu and with wrestling, a big issue is ringworm and even staph infection.

01:36:52.000 I've gotten both.

01:36:53.000 Really? 0.98

01:36:54.000 Yeah, man, it sucks. 0.98

01:36:55.000 The staph was real scary because my friend Tate Fletcher spotted it. 0.97

01:36:59.000 We were at an airport, and we were hanging out.

01:37:01.000 Get ready to go on a plane, and I just had my foot sitting up on my knee, and he was looking at the bottom of my calf.

01:37:07.000 And he goes, hey man, what's going on with your leg?

01:37:09.000 I go, what?

01:37:10.000 He's like, what's all this?

01:37:12.000 I go, what is it?

01:37:13.000 It's like these little pimples on my leg.

01:37:15.000 I'm like, I don't know.

01:37:15.000 He goes, dude, that looks like staff.

01:37:17.000 I go, are you serious?

01:37:19.000 And he goes, yeah, I don't like that, man.

01:37:20.000 Go get that checked out.

01:37:21.000 Because he, you know...

01:37:23.000 He fought, has been grappling his whole life, and he had caught it before.

01:37:27.000 I had never caught it.

01:37:28.000 I had caught ringworm before, and I knew what that looked like. 0.99

01:37:30.000 And so I was like, this is fucking pimples. 0.99

01:37:32.000 Like, what is it? 0.99

01:37:33.000 He's like, I'm telling you, I think that's staph. 0.97

01:37:35.000 So I go immediately to a dermatologist, take his advice, and the guy goes, yup. 0.99

01:37:39.000 Get on some fucking antibiotics. 0.99

01:37:41.000 He gives me these horse pills of death. 1.00

01:37:43.000 This stuff's awful.

01:37:45.000 First of all, antibiotics, when you have staph, wrecks your entire system.

01:37:50.000 Because it doesn't just kill the staff.

01:37:52.000 It kills all the healthy flora, too.

01:37:54.000 So what they say to counter that is to take probiotics once you're done with your whole cycle, but also to prevent it in the future.

01:38:03.000 You take healthy bacteria, like a lot of acidophilus, different forms of probiotics, and you are essentially giving your body soldiers to fight off infection.

01:38:13.000 And the skin flora changes when you take high doses of healthy acidophilus and things along those lines.

01:38:20.000 It's also for people that are vegan, there's some different probiotics like raw sauerkraut.

01:38:27.000 Raw sauerkraut is really good.

01:38:29.000 Kimchi is another one that's really good.

01:38:31.000 Fantastic probiotic.

01:38:33.000 You're essentially taking in live organisms that become a part of your body, and they're soldiers. 0.97

01:38:38.000 And these live organisms fight off against shitty bacteria. 0.97

01:38:41.000 It's amazing stuff.

01:38:43.000 Well, part of the reason I was convinced, other than I get my medical advice, is in the other work that I do, I build and manage athletic fields.

01:38:57.000 And there's a huge movement to go towards organic...

01:39:05.000 Yeah.

01:39:29.000 We started using compost from both a facility nearby from the county but also from a supplier and applying that as a part of our regime.

01:39:44.000 We were able to cut back on fertilizer and the other thing that was really interesting is that A lot of the pathogens that we have issue with, and you see them on golf courses, they get different kinds of fungus that affect the grass because you're putting water on it and you're feeding the shit out of it.

01:40:00.000 And by putting that compost on there and providing Essentially, the organisms that are good for the soil, we're feeding the soil, not the plant, which synthetic nitrogen does.

01:40:15.000 And so what ends up happening is we're feeding that soil, and so now we've got a whole environment there that that turf grass has got an opportunity to utilize everything that's in that soil, and it's healthier.

01:40:27.000 We're kind of going the other way.

01:40:29.000 We're going the other direction in everything from farming to growing grass for kids to play soccer on.

01:40:36.000 Well, I know a guy who lived near a golf course growing up, and the pesticides that they used on the golf course infected the water supply, and he got bone cancer and cancer throughout his neighborhood.

01:40:47.000 Everyone in his neighborhood was affected.

01:40:49.000 Someone they knew got cancer.

01:40:51.000 It was rampant. 0.99

01:40:52.000 And it was just people that were drinking the water that came from this area where it had been contaminated because of a fucking golf course. 0.99

01:40:59.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:40:59.000 Leaching in. 0.99

01:41:00.000 And the one company that I work with has been part of a construction of a golf course that from day one was, and it's actually certified organic, but it's been a part of their process all the way along.

01:41:15.000 And they control the amount of traffic on it and all of those sort of things too, but it's a beautiful golf course.

01:41:21.000 And they haven't used any pesticides or synthetic fertilizers on it.

01:41:26.000 One of the things that they had brought up in that same article about organic meat being healthier was the incorporation of clover in with grass and that somehow or another clover helps sustain a nitrogen balance with the grasses.

01:41:43.000 Clover is a nitrogen-fixing plant.

01:41:47.000 In a pasture, we introduce clover into our pastures.

01:41:54.000 It fixes nitrogen into the soil that's then available for the grasses and white clovers and a lot of the things that I actually plant in some of the food plot stuff that we do for wildlife.

01:42:03.000 For deer, yeah.

01:42:04.000 Yeah, for deer.

01:42:05.000 It's sweet, it tastes good, and it's also providing nitrogen to the plants that need it.

01:42:11.000 And that's a big problem with things like gigantic fields of only grain, of only corn, or of only wheat.

01:42:19.000 It's not natural for one plant species to be...

01:42:24.000 Monoculture.

01:42:25.000 Yeah, that's not normal, right?

01:42:26.000 That's not natural.

01:42:27.000 And it's kind of like what you were talking about when you were talking about these really interesting, diverse ecosystems that are created by these organic farms, like this one that you were highlighting earlier.

01:42:38.000 Yeah.

01:42:39.000 And so it is.

01:42:41.000 It's a complete ecosystem.

01:42:43.000 It's a closed circle.

01:42:44.000 That's how it's supposed to be.

01:42:45.000 Well, the thing that gets me is that, you know, this Mark Shepard, I mean, I've just paged through it.

01:42:51.000 You know, Doug's read more of it than I have.

01:42:52.000 But, I mean, you look at this and you read it and it makes sense and you're like, wow, this guy's a genius.

01:42:56.000 But then you think about, like, ancient civilizations were doing things along these lines.

01:43:02.000 Where did we lose that?

01:43:03.000 Where did that go away?

01:43:04.000 Well, it seems like we lost it with this factory farming, and we also lost it when we started putting people in cities.

01:43:10.000 I think cities are a real big part of our disconnect, and also awesome.

01:43:15.000 I love cities.

01:43:16.000 I love to be able to go to the movies.

01:43:18.000 Yeah, I like getting on the highway.

01:43:20.000 Like the guy you mentioned... 0.99

01:43:22.000 The guy you mentioned, Joel, that grows this shit on the mediums. 1.00

01:43:25.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:43:26.000 That was Ron Finley.

01:43:29.000 You've heard of Joel Salatin?

01:43:30.000 He's been on the podcast.

01:43:31.000 Oh, really?

01:43:31.000 Yeah, he's awesome.

01:43:32.000 I was going to reference him.

01:43:33.000 He's amazing.

01:43:35.000 He's got some amazing books.

01:43:36.000 He's got a lot of books on the third.

01:43:38.000 Interesting strategy for letting pigs and all these different animals graze.

01:43:42.000 What he does is he sets up this perimeter fence, this large, mildly charged fence.

01:43:47.000 So if they go to it, it irritates them so they don't run over the fence.

01:43:50.000 And then he moves it.

01:43:51.000 He moves the fence and they graze in a new area.

01:43:54.000 So they don't just destroy.

01:43:55.000 Rotational grazing.

01:43:56.000 Yeah.

01:43:57.000 And they're living as if they were wild.

01:44:00.000 They're essentially grazing off acorns, things along those lines, and just giant areas where they roam and forage, and they eat just like a wild pig, and because of that, their flesh is very different.

01:44:11.000 That's what you got in your freezer now, dude.

01:44:12.000 Well, this is elk, but I have a wild pig in my freezer at home.

01:44:16.000 From us, that we brought you.

01:44:17.000 Oh, okay. 0.93

01:44:18.000 You have pig? 1.00

01:44:19.000 Yeah, we pasture them.

01:44:20.000 Oh, okay.

01:44:21.000 Well, that's the way to do it.

01:44:23.000 I mean, it's a different kind of meat.

01:44:24.000 It looks different, you know?

01:44:26.000 I mean, it has a deeper, darker, richer color.

01:44:29.000 And that's one of the things that I noticed when we shot, when Ronella and I shot a pig at the Tojon Ranch.

01:44:34.000 It was thick with fat from acorns and its texture.

01:44:38.000 The meat was like a dark red and it was delicious.

01:44:41.000 It's a different animal.

01:44:42.000 Isn't it interesting, like with beef, I still eat the occasional beef that I might not know where it came from.

01:44:52.000 Right.

01:44:52.000 Not very often, but there's one place, one restaurant nearby our place that I go to, and he finishes his beef with corn, but it's mostly grass-fed, but he's still sort of old school.

01:45:05.000 And he does that to marble it?

01:45:07.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:45:08.000 Yeah.

01:45:08.000 I taste the difference between, of course, you taste the difference between venison, because really, again, I don't have this wide experience of hunting in different areas and having meat from different areas, so I am excited about your elk.

01:45:21.000 So the venison to grass-fed beef to corn-fed beef.

01:45:26.000 Um, and it's been a long time since I've had something that I, like I said, where I didn't know where it came from, but I can tell you when it was, when it was, uh, fat cattle, they call them.

01:45:35.000 Um, I feel like after I get done eating a piece of meat like that, like I have a little prime rib or something when I go out on a Saturday night, I feel like I should take a knife and like scrape that fat off my tongue.

01:45:44.000 It just has a completely different taste and I just, I'm not interested in it anymore.

01:45:49.000 And so my, you know, taste has changed that way.

01:45:53.000 Um, It's very tender, but it's also because that animal's dying.

01:46:02.000 That animal, you're eating a sumo wrestler.

01:46:04.000 You're eating a slob. 1.00

01:46:06.000 What's that, where they massage them? 0.83

01:46:08.000 Yeah, Kobe beef.

01:46:10.000 Or Wagyu.

01:46:11.000 It's the more common.

01:46:13.000 Is that how you say it?

01:46:14.000 Wagyu.

01:46:15.000 I don't like that stuff, man.

01:46:16.000 I've had it before. 0.97

01:46:17.000 It's okay, but it's so fucking soft and weird. 0.99

01:46:22.000 It's like, how the fuck is this muscle carrying this animal around? 0.99

01:46:26.000 It's gelatinous. 0.97

01:46:28.000 It's weird.

01:46:29.000 I'll take it to even more of an extreme, and that is veal.

01:46:34.000 Down the road from our old friend who had the issue with us when we were hunting, and he would call and leave me those crazy messages.

01:46:42.000 Before he owned that place, it was owned by another guy who raised veal.

01:46:46.000 And when I was younger, I helped out up there once in a while.

01:46:49.000 And how you helped out was to help him load the veal.

01:46:53.000 Those animals are in a cage where they essentially can't, or a box where they can barely turn around.

01:47:00.000 And they're being fed, you know, a milk replacer, a powdery that you mix with water and it's kind of a liquid and that's all they're getting.

01:47:09.000 And the best looking veal calves were the last animal I ever wanted to eat.

01:47:15.000 And it smelled bad.

01:47:17.000 There was nothing good about it.

01:47:19.000 The mussels aren't developed.

01:47:20.000 They don't want them to develop.

01:47:22.000 It's a crazy thing.

01:47:23.000 I don't understand it.

01:47:25.000 I don't understand how it got started, and I don't understand why people keep eating it.

01:47:29.000 Well, people eat lutefisk.

01:47:30.000 I mean, that's weird.

01:47:32.000 Lutefisk?

01:47:32.000 What is that?

01:47:33.000 It's like... 0.93

01:47:34.000 I thought you were saying ludicrous.

01:47:35.000 I was like, what did he do wrong? 0.87

01:47:37.000 Fish and, what is it, lye?

01:47:40.000 Yeah.

01:47:40.000 What?

01:47:40.000 I mean, it's a Norwegian thing.

01:47:42.000 It's a survival thing.

01:47:43.000 The Vikings did it on ships and stuff, but people still, it's more, it's a tradition thing, but it's literally soaked in lye.

01:47:47.000 Oh, so it's like a way of preserving it?

01:47:50.000 It's lye?

01:47:51.000 Yes.

01:47:51.000 I mean, it...

01:47:52.000 But isn't lye poisonous?

01:47:54.000 This is real. 1.00

01:47:55.000 What in the fuck is this? 0.99

01:47:59.000 And it's weird. 0.99

01:48:00.000 I mean, you want to talk gelatinous, dude.

01:48:01.000 My friend Lauren Hanson is standing up with his hands in the air right now. 1.00

01:48:05.000 Why is he the shit? 1.00

01:48:07.000 Oh, Norwegians are awesome. 1.00

01:48:08.000 I just gotta say that.

01:48:09.000 Oh my god.

01:48:11.000 What is this?

01:48:12.000 Pairing wines with lutefisk.

01:48:15.000 Oh god, it looks like jizz.

01:48:19.000 Look at it.

01:48:19.000 It's like slime.

01:48:21.000 It's like snail slime.

01:48:24.000 I've never had veal, but I've had this.

01:48:26.000 What is it like?

01:48:28.000 What is this like?

01:48:29.000 Yeah, but this is just a way of preserving.

01:48:30.000 Well, it was something they did to survive.

01:48:32.000 Yeah, and it's just tradition now, but people do it.

01:48:35.000 What does it taste like?

01:48:36.000 I can't even describe it.

01:48:37.000 I think I blocked it on my mind.

01:48:39.000 Is that bad?

01:48:42.000 In the Norwegian areas of Wisconsin, they have these dinners, you know, lutefisk dinners for fundraisers and such, but they also have other things.

01:48:52.000 My whole thing was, out of respect, I'd take a bite of lutefisk, and then I wash that down with some Swedish meatballs and lefse, and just get it out of your mouth.

01:49:06.000 It's one of those things.

01:49:07.000 What's the other thing?

01:49:08.000 You wash it down with Swedish meatballs and what?

01:49:09.000 Lefse, it's like a little, isn't it a potato bread type, almost like a tortilla.

01:49:14.000 It's like a Norwegian tortilla.

01:49:15.000 Is this a obscure food show here? 1.00

01:49:18.000 You guys are eating raccoons and fucking ludicrous. 1.00

01:49:22.000 Ludicrous. 1.00

01:49:22.000 Smelt feeds? 1.00

01:49:23.000 Yes.

01:49:24.000 A smelt feed.

01:49:25.000 Yeah.

01:49:26.000 Little itty bitty fish.

01:49:27.000 They're like little tiny fish you scoop up in giant nets, right?

01:49:30.000 Deep fry them.

01:49:30.000 Deep fry them, yeah.

01:49:31.000 You eat the whole thing, right?

01:49:32.000 Guts and all.

01:49:32.000 Pretty much.

01:49:33.000 What is that like?

01:49:35.000 It's really good.

01:49:36.000 I mean, our wrestling club...

01:49:37.000 Oh, not so good.

01:49:38.000 Says Doug.

01:49:39.000 I like it.

01:49:40.000 I like it.

01:49:41.000 It's not the favorite thing, but I mean...

01:49:43.000 It's not?

01:49:44.000 You fry anything, and it's pretty good, you know?

01:49:46.000 Oh, deep fry, like bread and all that?

01:49:48.000 Yeah.

01:49:49.000 I guess they do.

01:49:49.000 Tartar sauce.

01:49:50.000 You put a dozen of them on a bun and, you know, chow down.

01:49:54.000 Make some money for the wrestling club.

01:49:56.000 Well, you gotta do what you gotta do if you're hungry.

01:49:58.000 There's a TV show, I think, in Public Television.

01:50:00.000 How do you get some money from the wrestling club?

01:50:03.000 How do you make this connection?

01:50:05.000 It's a fundraiser.

01:50:06.000 That's what we do.

01:50:07.000 That's how we make money.

01:50:08.000 We have feeds.

01:50:08.000 Lutefisk feeds.

01:50:09.000 Steak feeds.

01:50:10.000 Bear feeds.

01:50:11.000 Not real creative when it comes to raising money, I guess.

01:50:16.000 Although we have the Cazenovia. 0.79

01:50:18.000 This is one plug I do want to put.

01:50:19.000 The Cazenovia Turkey Busters Fishery coming up this weekend.

01:50:22.000 A Turkey Busters Fishery? 0.99

01:50:24.000 What?

01:50:25.000 What is a turkey buster?

01:50:27.000 Well, it's a sportsman's club.

01:50:29.000 I don't think we have a website or anything, so I wouldn't look it up.

01:50:34.000 So it's a sportsman's club.

01:50:36.000 And in Cazenovia, which is 250 people, it's sort of the Lions Club, the Knights of Columbus, the...

01:50:45.000 You know, the rotary, it's everybody put together, and it's just this group of dudes who are really into turkey hunting.

01:50:51.000 Okay.

01:50:51.000 They call themselves the turkey busters?

01:50:53.000 Turkey busters, yeah. 1.00

01:50:54.000 And why do we have a fishery?

01:50:57.000 Well, we have this little lake, Lee Lake, there in Cazenovia, and one of the things that we do with the money that we raise is stock it with walleyes and other game fish.

01:51:11.000 So one of the things that we do is have this fishery which is on the ice.

01:51:15.000 So it's essentially an ice fishing tournament would be the wrong word.

01:51:21.000 Although there are prizes for like the biggest bluegill and the biggest bass and that kind of thing.

01:51:28.000 But mostly it's a thing where people come to and you have raffles and It's the social event of the season in Cazenovia.

01:51:36.000 Really?

01:51:36.000 Oh, yeah.

01:51:37.000 Oh, yeah.

01:51:38.000 Jesus.

01:51:39.000 Just FYI, Doug, they are online, but all they have is...

01:51:43.000 They are?

01:51:44.000 All they have is the phone number.

01:51:47.000 And contact...

01:51:48.000 This is at Cazenovia Memorial Park.

01:51:50.000 Contact Chuck Keller.

01:51:51.000 Don't put the number online.

01:51:52.000 No, no.

01:51:53.000 Whatever you do, we've already said too much. 0.99

01:51:56.000 If they have a website, they're getting dick pics right now sent to them as you speak. 0.99

01:52:00.000 Wow. 0.98

01:52:02.000 Yeah, so those are different ways that...

01:52:04.000 And some of the stuff that we've also done is donated, bought and donated, like Hoyt Archery Bows or Matthews Bows to the school's physical education program.

01:52:20.000 Oh, that's cool.

01:52:21.000 Yeah.

01:52:21.000 Yeah, that's awesome that they still do that.

01:52:23.000 Yeah.

01:52:23.000 That's very cool.

01:52:24.000 Yeah.

01:52:24.000 So this is a little organization of a bunch of guys who get together once or...

01:52:29.000 It depends on the time of the year, once or twice a month and...

01:52:32.000 Well, there's certainly a benefit to having a small community like that where everybody really does care about the welfare of the community and cares about all these different things like wrestling team needing money for uniforms and things along those lines.

01:52:44.000 We lose a lot of that when you have big cities.

01:52:47.000 There's so much to gain in a big city, but there's so much to lose, too.

01:52:52.000 It's like we were talking earlier about the diffusion of responsibility that you have when there's 20 million people. 0.99

01:52:57.000 You see somebody with their fucking car broken down the side of the road. 0.99

01:52:59.000 I don't even think about stopping. 1.00

01:53:01.000 I'm like, I hope this asshole is triple A. You know? 1.00

01:53:04.000 Passed by.

01:53:05.000 But if you're on some country road and you see someone broken down, you think one of two things.

01:53:09.000 I hope this guy's not a serial killer and I should probably try to help him.

01:53:12.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:53:12.000 Those are the two things to think.

01:53:13.000 And the other thing out in our territory when you're driving or in our area when you're driving around is you wave to everybody.

01:53:19.000 Yeah.

01:53:20.000 Yeah, so you're driving on.

01:53:21.000 It might not be putting your hand up like this or anything, but at least you're driving on.

01:53:23.000 Give a little nod.

01:53:24.000 And you go like this.

01:53:25.000 Yeah.

01:53:26.000 That's just the one thing.

01:53:27.000 Well, that's nice, you know?

01:53:28.000 Yeah, it is. 0.99

01:53:29.000 That is definitely missing on the highway, because otherwise you'd be fucking...

01:53:32.000 Yeah, you still get the one-finger sign out on the highway around here, but... 0.98

01:53:35.000 You're fucking waving at everybody to pass you. 0.99

01:53:37.000 Your hands would break, you know? 1.00

01:53:40.000 Yeah, it's a...

01:53:41.000 Cities are weird.

01:53:42.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:53:43.000 Well, it's all weird, isn't it?

01:53:44.000 It is weird.

01:53:45.000 People are weird, but cities are especially weird because I don't think this is a normal thing.

01:53:50.000 We've only had them for the last couple hundred years in this sort of magnitude that we have now, like with New York and LA and things along those lines, just to have so many people jammed into an area like this.

01:54:01.000 And as we started this conversation, have a complete disconnect as to where your food comes from and that the food is coming from life.

01:54:10.000 Whether it's plant life or whether it's animal life, your food comes from life.

01:54:15.000 Life eats life, and that is reality.

01:54:17.000 Yeah, Jack London.

01:54:18.000 Is that what he said?

01:54:20.000 Yeah, it's what, the sea wolf?

01:54:21.000 We were just talking about this, yeah.

01:54:23.000 What did he say?

01:54:24.000 Well, this character is this old pirate in this book called the Sea Wolf.

01:54:28.000 I knew he was going to get a pirate in this conversation.

01:54:30.000 Are you a fan of pirates?

01:54:32.000 Yeah, who isn't, man?

01:54:34.000 Pirates are awesome.

01:54:35.000 But, I mean, maybe not the new-age ones, the Somalis or whatever. 1.00

01:54:40.000 Oh, yeah, they're a little different.

01:54:41.000 But, you know, those are not without my sympathy as well.

01:54:44.000 Yeah, oh, no, everybody's got an agenda, and everybody's got a reason to fight, you know.

01:54:47.000 Well, they have a very—we'll get into that in a minute.

01:54:50.000 This specific pirate, his whole—you know, he's a loner, and his whole thing in the conversation throughout the book is he talks about it as a yeast. 0.98

01:54:58.000 You know, life eats life, and his whole contention is— What the fuck matters? 0.98

01:55:04.000 Life eats life. 0.99

01:55:05.000 I mean, you could make an argument like, you're gonna be dead, you're gonna be dead, you're gonna be dead. 1.00

01:55:09.000 Who gives a fuck? 1.00

01:55:09.000 Who gives a fuck what happens? 1.00

01:55:11.000 You know, I mean, that's not a very nice way to look at things, you know, but it is, it's, I mean, it's a fact, you know? 0.98

01:55:16.000 It is a fact, but also, this moment right now is enjoyable.

01:55:20.000 Oh, absolutely.

01:55:21.000 You know, I have a problem with that sort of absolute, sort of, you know, worrying about the end.

01:55:28.000 No, absolutely.

01:55:28.000 How about the moment is enjoyable?

01:55:30.000 Nothing else at all.

01:55:31.000 Camaraderie and friendship and a good meal with friends is one of the best things you can have in life.

01:55:35.000 Adventures and things that you enjoy, activities that you like to participate in, those are very enjoyable.

01:55:41.000 And I think that's what life is about.

01:55:43.000 Life is about these friendships and these enjoyable moments that we have with each other.

01:55:48.000 So there's absolute ideas that people have, but what is the point, man?

01:55:52.000 Yeah.

01:55:52.000 It's all going to end, man.

01:55:54.000 Well, okay.

01:55:55.000 You could look at it that way.

01:55:56.000 Yeah.

01:55:56.000 I was like, what's the point in playing the game?

01:55:58.000 The game's going to be over one day. 1.00

01:55:59.000 Do you not enjoy the fucking game? 1.00

01:56:01.000 Enjoy the game, man. 1.00

01:56:02.000 These are some of those kids we saw sitting on the steps today.

01:56:05.000 You know, just sitting there.

01:56:07.000 Oh, in Hollywood?

01:56:08.000 Yeah.

01:56:09.000 They're poisoned. 1.00

01:56:09.000 These poor fucks. 1.00

01:56:10.000 They're poisoned by the brake dust that's fucking flowing through the air everywhere. 1.00

01:56:14.000 That shit's terrible for you. 1.00

01:56:15.000 There's definitely different smells out here, man. 1.00

01:56:17.000 Fucking brake dust is terrible. 0.95

01:56:19.000 It's one of the one things that people don't talk about, about living in urban environments. 1.00

01:56:23.000 You go to your car, you know that shit if you have a wheel and you see that stuff on the outside of your wheel? 0.99

01:56:28.000 You're breathing that. 0.99

01:56:29.000 You're breathing that everywhere, especially if you live in New York or if you live in LA and there's constant traffic going by you. 0.99

01:56:34.000 Every time they hit the brakes, a little bit of fucking dust gets up in the air. 0.89

01:56:37.000 And that stuff, you're dealing with millions and millions of cars. 0.99

01:56:40.000 This stuff permeates the environment.

01:56:41.000 It's terrible for you.

01:56:45.000 The Voluntary Coast Guard of Somalia, that's what the pirates called themselves.

01:56:49.000 The reason why they started doing pirating in Somalia is because they were fishermen. 0.99

01:56:54.000 They were fishermen and these assholes from Europe and Russia were dumping toxic waste off their shores. 1.00

01:57:00.000 Nuclear waste, toxic chemical waste, and it was killing all the fish. 0.99

01:57:04.000 So what they started doing was kidnapping the people that were in the boats that were doing the dumping. 0.73

01:57:08.000 So these fishermen who were fucking starving to death, because all of a sudden their waters were polluted, they started going after these guys and kidnapping them. 0.95

01:57:17.000 Then they realized, hey, we get way more fucking money from kidnapping people than we do from fishing. 0.98

01:57:21.000 They became pirates. 0.98

01:57:23.000 And so they also started taking this stuff called CAT. And this is a narcotic.

01:57:29.000 It's a stimulant that they take. 1.00

01:57:32.000 It's like a plant that they chew, and it's like a fucking meth-type plant. 0.99

01:57:37.000 I don't know the exact... 0.99

01:57:38.000 Pull that up.

01:57:39.000 I think it's K-H-A-T, but it's a stimulant that they chew all the time. 0.65

01:57:44.000 It's one of the reasons why these people are so...

01:57:45.000 There it is.

01:57:46.000 Cat to be banned in the U.K. You see, like, this guy's eating, chewing on these leaves.

01:57:52.000 And it produces...

01:57:54.000 Pull up a website or a web description instead of an image.

01:57:57.000 And it'll find out what is the actual...

01:57:59.000 Go to all set of images.

01:58:01.000 Look at the guy's jaw.

01:58:03.000 He's got a big lead chew in there.

01:58:06.000 Yeah, this is...

01:58:08.000 Oh, I've seen in that movie Captain Phillips.

01:58:10.000 Yeah.

01:58:11.000 So this stuff is...

01:58:13.000 It's a drug.

01:58:15.000 And these people take it.

01:58:17.000 It's an alkaloid.

01:58:19.000 Here it is.

01:58:22.000 It's an amphetamine.

01:58:23.000 Amphetamine-like stimulant, which is said to cause excitement, loss of appetite, and euphoria. 0.99

01:58:28.000 And so these guys take this, they get jacked on this cat, K-H-A-T, and they would go out and fucking kidnap people. 0.98

01:58:38.000 Well, that's the thing, too. 0.98

01:58:39.000 You know, I mean, my initial reaction when I said, except Somali pirates, I mean, that's how we tell history is from, you know, Captain Phillips' side.

01:58:48.000 You know, and that's like the Howard Zinn thing.

01:58:49.000 Howard Zinn tells it from the other side.

01:58:51.000 You know, so let me retract that.

01:58:53.000 I like Somali pirates a little bit, too. 0.99

01:58:55.000 Everybody's got to...

01:58:56.000 You know, they've got a reason to fight. 1.00

01:58:57.000 They got fucked. 0.98

01:58:58.000 For the longest time, they were incredibly peaceful people. 1.00

01:59:01.000 Somalians were very peaceful.

01:59:02.000 They, you know, they weren't out there robbing and trying to jack people.

01:59:05.000 They were fishermen.

01:59:05.000 And when the Europeans started dumping that stuff off their shores, they had to take a new approach.

01:59:10.000 They had to adjust.

01:59:13.000 Adapt, improvise, overcome.

01:59:15.000 Yeah, but again, where's that coming from?

01:59:17.000 Coming from, you know, large-scale human beings living in these giant civilizations creating waste they don't know what to do with.

01:59:23.000 So some dickhole decides to dump it off the coast of Africa because they don't have any say in the matter. 0.63

01:59:29.000 You know, they didn't want to dump it in the London Bay. 0.95

01:59:32.000 In the backyard.

01:59:32.000 Yeah, so they decided to...

01:59:33.000 We do that here, too.

01:59:35.000 Does London have a bay?

01:59:36.000 Did I make that?

01:59:36.000 They loosened standards so that...

01:59:38.000 Companies can put more in.

01:59:40.000 Well, that's a big deal with New York City as well. 0.99

01:59:42.000 The Hudson River is a fucking deserted wasteland. 0.99

01:59:45.000 It was at one point in time. 0.99

01:59:46.000 They're dredging it up now and starting to clean it and trying to really impose very strict regulations on...

01:59:54.000 The amount of waste that gets in it.

01:59:57.000 And these large animal facilities, same thing.

01:59:59.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:00:00.000 Where do we put this stuff? 0.99

02:00:01.000 And you see these trucks going up and down, these big tank trucks full of shit. 0.98

02:00:05.000 And they have to haul it really far because they don't have enough... 0.98

02:00:07.000 They're renting land all over, so they're hauling it.

02:00:09.000 That was a big issue in our area is the weight on the roads.

02:00:12.000 Oh, yeah.

02:00:13.000 And so then, you know, and the farmers, you know...

02:00:17.000 They didn't want to be taxed or anything, so I believe there's a compromise where it wasn't a road tax, but they made them have another axle so it spread the weight out and wasn't tearing the hell out of the roads.

02:00:27.000 Oh, so the actual physical weight on the road.

02:00:29.000 Is that why they go to a weigh station?

02:00:30.000 Oh, these giant tankers do it. 1.00

02:00:31.000 I always wondered why they weigh them.

02:00:33.000 Well, out in our neck of the woods, again, a lot of the roads were just gravel roads, and then over time they did this thing called tar and chip.

02:00:40.000 So a gravel road is not built, you know, doesn't have any particular engineering, well, I suppose it has some engineering standards, but not.

02:00:47.000 Flat as possible, yeah. 0.97

02:00:50.000 There aren't any engineering standards, but gravel roads are a bitch to keep up. 0.97

02:00:54.000 So they started to tar and chip them.

02:00:56.000 What does that mean?

02:00:57.000 Poor man's blacktop.

02:01:00.000 Or asphalt.

02:01:01.000 So you put this tar down and then go over the top of it.

02:01:04.000 With pea gravel type thing. 0.91

02:01:05.000 With pea gravel stuff and it all binds together.

02:01:07.000 And then over time people keep driving on it and over time it actually seals it up.

02:01:10.000 And if you're just driving over it with cars and pickup trucks, it's okay.

02:01:13.000 But now here comes...

02:01:15.000 You know, a big tanker truck or a big tanker behind a monster tractor, and it's breaking down the sides of the roads, and it ends up being an issue for us. 0.98

02:01:23.000 And as Nate said, they're having to haul this stuff further and further, because you can only put so much shit on so much ground, and the shit that they are putting out there is... 0.91

02:01:35.000 You know, it's liquid manure that's going into these tanks or into these whole facilities. 0.99

02:01:40.000 Liquid manure?

02:01:41.000 Liquid manure.

02:01:42.000 Oh, it's nuts. 0.95

02:01:43.000 I just found a new way to torture terrorists.

02:01:45.000 And there's a double standard with it.

02:01:49.000 So you've got this massive amount of liquid manure, you know, and they're not going to store it, they're not going to compost it or anything like that.

02:01:54.000 So, like, right now, we've got a nice snowpack, 12 inches, and they're sprinted on top of the snow.

02:02:00.000 And just to illustrate the double standard, I got family that is in the septic business. 0.99

02:02:05.000 So if they go out, if they spread this shit on a certain slope... 1.00

02:02:09.000 Human shit. 1.00

02:02:10.000 From like holding tanks or pumping out? 1.00

02:02:12.000 They spread it on the snow?

02:02:14.000 Yeah.

02:02:14.000 Well, see, here's the thing, though.

02:02:16.000 They spread it on the snow, and if they do it over...

02:02:18.000 I love you.

02:02:19.000 If they do it over...

02:02:20.000 He said that because Jamie just pulled up liquid manure spreaders and toolbars for the people that are listening and not watching.

02:02:25.000 And see how they've added axles?

02:02:27.000 That's a new thing.

02:02:27.000 They used to have one axle, and it was just too much on the road.

02:02:31.000 So a septic dude, he goes out there to get rid of this human shit, and if he does it on a certain grade, he'll get a giant fine from the DNR. But a farmer... 0.99

02:02:40.000 Goes out and does it, and it's a, you know, so... 1.00

02:02:43.000 Human shit? 1.00

02:02:43.000 A farmer can dump human shit? 1.00

02:02:45.000 No, no, no. 1.00

02:02:45.000 A farmer can go dump cow shit. 1.00

02:02:47.000 And the thing is, you know, in the end, I mean, shit is shit is shit, you know? 1.00

02:02:50.000 No, but it's not, though, right? 1.00

02:02:52.000 Because cow shit is just they're eating grass. 1.00

02:02:54.000 So, like, manure... 1.00

02:02:55.000 Not in those facilities, they're not.

02:02:57.000 They're eating...

02:02:57.000 Oh, okay, right.

02:02:58.000 They're eating... 0.99

02:02:58.000 So, you know, obviously, when the snow melts, you know, a lot of that shit is going into the stream. 0.99

02:03:06.000 So, like, where Doug and I... We really value our shit. 0.99

02:03:11.000 We keep it, we compost it, we turn it into something with value. 0.99

02:03:14.000 That's a waste.

02:03:15.000 It's going into the water and polluting, and it's a waste of money.

02:03:18.000 Did you ever see the drone footage they did of this pig farm?

02:03:23.000 I've seen some.

02:03:24.000 I don't know.

02:03:25.000 First of all, I think something that you would probably agree with and I agree with and those people in the Cowspiracy documentary certainly agree with is that there's something evil about these ag-gag laws. 1.00

02:03:35.000 Oh, yeah. 0.97

02:03:36.000 This is crazy shit where you're not supposed to film atrocities that are being committed in these factory farms. 1.00

02:03:42.000 Well, this guy got a drone and he flew it over this pig farm and they have a goddamn lake of pig shit and piss. 1.00

02:03:50.000 It is gigantic and they have these These things where the pigs live. 1.00

02:03:55.000 These cages.

02:03:56.000 And then here's a guy.

02:03:58.000 He's gonna do it right here.

02:04:00.000 He's...

02:04:00.000 For people that want it...

02:04:01.000 Jeez!

02:04:02.000 Spy drone exposes Smithfield Foods...

02:04:05.000 Say that up.

02:04:07.000 Put that up.

02:04:07.000 Smithfield Foods Factory Farms.

02:04:09.000 So spy drones expose Smithfield Foods Factory Farms.

02:04:14.000 The lagoon is a good word because it sounds dirty. 1.00

02:04:17.000 The lake of pig shit and piss and whatever. 1.00

02:04:20.000 Yeah, it's like a red color. 1.00

02:04:23.000 It's disgusting.

02:04:24.000 And look at these, I mean, imagine how many animals are in one of those sheds, and they don't see sunlight, you know? 1.00

02:04:29.000 It's fucked. 1.00

02:04:30.000 It's fucked. 1.00

02:04:31.000 It's not, it's not, it's not human. 1.00

02:04:34.000 It's not humane.

02:04:35.000 It's not ethical.

02:04:36.000 It's not right.

02:04:38.000 But to bring it all home, alright?

02:04:40.000 Look at this.

02:04:41.000 The lagoon.

02:04:42.000 Look at that color.

02:04:43.000 Does it just sit there?

02:04:44.000 Do they ever do anything with it?

02:04:45.000 Or does it just sit there and bubble, bubble, bubble?

02:04:48.000 What did you say, James?

02:04:49.000 They spray it around the house so it's going to try to find a picture of the thing.

02:04:52.000 Oh, and the person, and they talk to the neighbor?

02:04:54.000 They spray it in the air?

02:04:57.000 Oh my god.

02:04:58.000 It gets in the air and goes into people's houses and I think some of the neighbors are saying it gets in their house and they can't even breathe and they need to leave the area.

02:05:05.000 There's a fear factor thing.

02:05:07.000 Can we hear this guy?

02:05:08.000 Let me hear this guy.

02:05:09.000 Former pig factory owner.

02:05:10.000 Let me hear this guy.

02:05:11.000 I don't know.

02:05:12.000 It sounds not up.

02:05:13.000 I don't know.

02:05:14.000 Come on, Dolan Webb.

02:05:17.000 Something wrong?

02:05:18.000 Yeah.

02:05:18.000 There's no sound?

02:05:19.000 Well, you can just see the way it's moving within the facility there, too.

02:05:23.000 Oh, there's an issue with the computer.

02:05:25.000 Strange.

02:05:26.000 Yeah, man.

02:05:27.000 It's dark.

02:05:27.000 It's evil.

02:05:28.000 And it's when, all of a sudden, these things don't get treated like a life, they get treated like a commodity.

02:05:34.000 I guess there's levels, right?

02:05:36.000 To people that are vegans, they would say, well, any animal that you would be willing to raise and then ship off and sell, like, why are you any better than this guy who's got these things stuffed into this thing?

02:05:47.000 I mean, yeah, your animals are living a normal life, but then eventually you're going to kill them anyway.

02:05:53.000 You know, whereas... 0.51

02:05:55.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:05:56.000 Yeah.

02:05:56.000 You know that.

02:05:57.000 And I have a friend who's a vegan, and in fact, one of my heifer calves is named after her.

02:06:04.000 And she's honored by that, actually, because she knows that that one's never going to be, or probably won't be, butchered.

02:06:10.000 Probably is a good word.

02:06:12.000 Probably won't be butchered, unless she gets a prolapsed cervix or something like that. 1.00

02:06:16.000 But... 1.00

02:06:19.000 So if your pussy's broken, you're done for. 1.00

02:06:22.000 Cows. 1.00

02:06:23.000 Cows, yeah.

02:06:24.000 You've got to be specific there, Joel.

02:06:26.000 So to say that there's not a difference is just not paying attention.

02:06:32.000 But no, I mean, if that's what the argument is, then you're not paying attention, and we can't have a conversation about it.

02:06:36.000 I just think they think that the ultimate goal at the end is definitely death, or the ultimate result for these animals.

02:06:43.000 The ultimate goal is life.

02:06:44.000 Well, I mean, these same people don't want you to be shooting wild animals either.

02:06:49.000 Well, even wolves, which is hilarious.

02:06:51.000 The wolf one is hilarious because there's so much ignorance involved in people's idea of what a wolf is and why.

02:06:58.000 There's so many folk tales and stories that involve bad wolves killing people.

02:07:04.000 I just read this.

02:07:05.000 Two wolves, I believe it was Idaho.

02:07:07.000 We can check in if we want to.

02:07:08.000 Two wolves killed 176 sheep or something like that in one night.

02:07:13.000 Oh yeah, for fun.

02:07:14.000 Well, that's the thing that wolves do, and then they're having a real big problem with this in Yellowstone and a lot of places that have elk, is that they don't kill, like a cat will kill a wolf, or a cat will kill an elk, rather, and he will eat that elk for a long period of time. 0.97

02:07:27.000 He'll bury it, and he'll eat it, and a wolf kills it, eats a little bit, and then kills another one, and then kills another one, and kills another one, and they do whatever the fuck they want.

02:07:36.000 And one of these guys that I know at Hoyt was telling me about this wolf that had killed this cow. 0.98

02:07:43.000 And the way it did it was it attacked the cow elk, attacked it, tore its guts apart, and then backed off and just watched and sat.

02:07:52.000 And watched this thing struggle and tried to walk away and tried to walk into this river.

02:07:58.000 Try to get away and then go after it again and tear it apart a little bit more and then back off again.

02:08:02.000 They do it for fun and it's what they're designed for.

02:08:06.000 They're killing machines and they enjoy it. 1.00

02:08:10.000 They're beautiful and I'm not saying that they're evil and we should kill them. 1.00

02:08:13.000 All and eradicate them from the face of the world, but there's something strange about that kind of animal. 1.00

02:08:20.000 They're not environmentalists, they're not conservationists, they're fucking wolves. 1.00

02:08:27.000 And wolves are dangerous. 1.00

02:08:29.000 They have an essential place in a very diverse ecosystem, but the top of the food chain is fucking human beings, period. 0.99

02:08:38.000 And when human beings decide, you know what? 1.00

02:08:40.000 There's too many of these goddamn wolves that are killing 100-plus sheep in a night, or my friend... 1.00

02:08:47.000 Mike Hawkridge, who lives up in BC, his neighbor, their fucking cow got taken out. 1.00

02:08:53.000 A cow got taken out by wolves. 0.99

02:08:55.000 In BC, where he lives, there's no tag limit for wolves.

02:09:00.000 You can shoot as many as you want. 0.97

02:09:01.000 You can shoot wolves. 1.00

02:09:02.000 It could be your hobby. 0.95

02:09:04.000 What do you do?

02:09:04.000 I go bowling.

02:09:05.000 I shoot wolves. 1.00

02:09:06.000 They're fucking trying to take out as many wolves as they can. 1.00

02:09:10.000 When we were talking about coyotes before, and personally, I don't, you know, I've shot a few coyotes in my day. 1.00

02:09:14.000 How dare you?

02:09:15.000 And, yeah.

02:09:16.000 But it's not something I go out and pursue, you know, necessarily.

02:09:22.000 It's more opportunistic or whatever. 0.97

02:09:24.000 He's fucking with Roadrunner, and you've got to take him out. 0.99

02:09:25.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:09:26.000 Danville.

02:09:32.000 It's sort of like the deer thing when I was listening to various arguments about deer.

02:09:37.000 One of the reasons we have so many deer in Wisconsin and in other agricultural areas is because of agriculture.

02:09:43.000 And they are highly adaptive.

02:09:45.000 Yes, and that's a really big point because they're not even essentially wild.

02:09:49.000 They're really kind of like a farm animal in a lot of ways.

02:09:51.000 And it was one of the things that Steve brought up on the show that we talked about.

02:09:55.000 I don't know if it ever made the air.

02:09:57.000 Did that make the air?

02:09:58.000 We were just talking about how these animals are essentially, in a lot of ways, they're like a livestock almost.

02:10:04.000 Non-fenced in.

02:10:05.000 Oh yeah, you saw the trail camera pictures that I sent you of different deer that I had, different bucks on things.

02:10:11.000 Well, you're not going to see that out in Of course.

02:10:14.000 Idaho or Utah or whatever.

02:10:15.000 Well, maybe you do, but...

02:10:16.000 No, I mean...

02:10:17.000 Well, they're very different than the mule deer that we were talking about before, the show star that Rinella killed, that was on a show recently, which is enormous, beautiful, majestic, public land mule deer that he killed.

02:10:28.000 Mule deer, they've found, will travel 150 miles during a season.

02:10:33.000 They really migrate in... 0.83

02:10:36.000 And again, probably for a lot of the same reasons, because they have to.

02:10:40.000 For food, yeah.

02:10:40.000 For food and for whatever, whereas...

02:10:43.000 An older a deer gets in our area, at least my experience has been, so the older a deer gets in our area, the less it moves.

02:10:51.000 So if you have a buck that you're managing four bigger bucks and you start seeing one that maybe has a distinctive antler or something, so you can tell it from other ones...

02:11:03.000 You'll begin to realize, you know that great big one that I shot?

02:11:06.000 I saw that deer for two years.

02:11:07.000 He lived in about a 40-acre area.

02:11:10.000 Wow, that's crazy.

02:11:11.000 You're just waiting for him to slip up.

02:11:13.000 And he did.

02:11:15.000 There's a lot of these hunting shows where they name the deers.

02:11:18.000 Yeah.

02:11:19.000 You know, they'll call this one...

02:11:21.000 Megabug.

02:11:21.000 Yeah, you know, Old Forky and, you know, whatever.

02:11:24.000 And they'll have names for these animals and they'll target them. 0.90

02:11:27.000 We're looking for Lucky.

02:11:28.000 We're trying to get Lucky.

02:11:29.000 You know, and they'll have these shows.

02:11:30.000 And, like, this is so bizarre because it's in a lot of ways you're, like, kind of farming because they have these gigantic pastures that they call food plots.

02:11:38.000 So what they'll do is they'll plow the land and they'll grow a lot of clover, a lot of different types, alfalfa, different things that they know.

02:11:47.000 Recipes, yeah.

02:11:47.000 Deers will eat.

02:11:48.000 Deers?

02:11:49.000 No, deer.

02:11:50.000 And so then they set up a tree stand and whack them out.

02:11:55.000 Yeah, and I do it too.

02:11:58.000 I mean, part of what I do in my land management service for people is to help their property become more wildlife friendly.

02:12:06.000 One of the things that I try to push to people is that when we're doing things like timber stand improvement or invasive species management or providing wildlife food plots, we're planting wildlife food plots, just not deer food plots.

02:12:18.000 And a lot of those guys, you know, what I really want is deer.

02:12:21.000 Right.

02:12:22.000 But you need it all.

02:12:23.000 Yeah, and what's good for deer is generally good for a whole host of wildlife.

02:12:27.000 So it's a little bit different, but yeah, no, I know what you mean.

02:12:29.000 I tend to name them afterwards, like that big one that I killed.

02:12:34.000 You know, we called him the standard, because it's the standard by which I'll, after this, will be judged, you know?

02:12:41.000 Right.

02:12:43.000 But, yeah, I mean, that part of the relationship is...

02:12:47.000 Complicated.

02:12:48.000 Complicated.

02:12:48.000 Man, it is complicated.

02:12:49.000 But like all things involving life, they become complicated.

02:12:54.000 It's not simple.

02:12:56.000 Yeah.

02:12:56.000 Can I talk about Meat Eater a little bit?

02:12:58.000 Yeah, please.

02:12:59.000 So we shot, starting this Thursday, there'll be three episodes in a row that were shot on the farm.

02:13:05.000 The first one's actually Steve taking apart a couple of the deer that he finally shot a couple of deer on our place, and technically he'll say something else, but during our hunt he killed two deer.

02:13:15.000 But he took them apart, so it's a really informative episode about The different kinds of cuts.

02:13:23.000 Well, one, how to just do it.

02:13:26.000 And then the different kinds of cuts and the methods for doing this stuff.

02:13:30.000 I just watched it and I'm just really impressed by it.

02:13:33.000 He's amazing.

02:13:34.000 He really is. 0.83

02:13:35.000 He's so goddamn important because in my mind on television, he is the most prominent intellectual voice for wild game management, wild game conservation, and for hunting. 0.85

02:13:48.000 He's a true conservationist. 0.94

02:13:51.000 He's a guy who really, truly believes in public land hunting and goes way out of his way.

02:13:56.000 I mean, he gets plenty of offers to hunt on private land.

02:14:00.000 He prefers to hunt on public land, and he prefers to do his best to try to do whatever he can to help keep those lands public.

02:14:08.000 Yeah, and to promote that.

02:14:09.000 And I think one of the things he likes about hunting on my place is that he knows that after the fact...

02:14:16.000 We, you know, like when you were there, and just like this past year and every other year, there's a small group of people that hunt opening weekend.

02:14:23.000 After that, I start letting other folks come in.

02:14:26.000 I mean, it's our private land.

02:14:28.000 We're able to do, but it is the public's animal.

02:14:30.000 And yeah, I put restrictions on folks.

02:14:32.000 You can't shoot a buck or, you know, it's got to be this big or whatever it is.

02:14:36.000 And, uh...

02:14:38.000 And he's applauded that in the past.

02:14:42.000 That's really important to me because I struggle with that a little bit.

02:14:48.000 But the alternative isn't very good where your land is just wide open to anybody who wants to come in on it.

02:14:53.000 No.

02:14:53.000 Experience that.

02:14:54.000 No good.

02:14:55.000 Well, the problem is you can't really count on everybody to be ethical.

02:14:59.000 You can't really count on everybody to take care of your land with reverence and dignity and the way you treat it.

02:15:05.000 Yeah.

02:15:05.000 Or even safe.

02:15:07.000 Liability, you can't let every yahoo... 0.92

02:15:09.000 Yes, very important, very important.

02:15:11.000 Like the animal that got winged in the neck as he's gone by, that the coyotes took apart.

02:15:17.000 Who knows who shot that, whether or not it was an ethical shot.

02:15:21.000 Just a bad shot.

02:15:22.000 And that's a big part of it.

02:15:24.000 Well, so that's the first episode.

02:15:26.000 The next two are two people that I hunted with us that I know and love.

02:15:31.000 And we actually...

02:15:33.000 They did a very similar thing to what you and Brian did.

02:15:36.000 The first time Brittany and Helen hunted was in Montana.

02:15:41.000 That was a year ago.

02:15:42.000 And sort of like Steve did with you and Brian, well, the next hunt was to bring them to our place.

02:15:49.000 So they went from hiking and working hard and freezing and not seeing deer very much to freezing their ass off sitting in a blind.

02:15:57.000 And the weather cooperated.

02:15:58.000 It was not nearly as cold as it was.

02:16:00.000 It was super snowy, though.

02:16:02.000 Coincidentally, I was in town the night before opening day, and I was so bummed out that I had scheduled it where I had to be in Colorado the next day, and I barely made it out of Madison.

02:16:12.000 Oh, yeah.

02:16:13.000 I was in your town, man.

02:16:15.000 I know you were. 1.00

02:16:17.000 Fucked up. 0.99

02:16:17.000 Well, that can't happen again. 0.99

02:16:19.000 Yeah, we were thinking about, Callan and I were thinking about flying in on Sunday, but schedules didn't permit.

02:16:24.000 Yeah.

02:16:25.000 That would have been...

02:16:27.000 That'd have been great.

02:16:28.000 Next year.

02:16:29.000 Yeah, good.

02:16:30.000 I'm counting on it.

02:16:31.000 Yeah, well, next year we're going to manage it.

02:16:33.000 All right.

02:16:33.000 Callan and I, we made a commitment to it.

02:16:35.000 We were talking about it.

02:16:36.000 We had so much fun two years ago.

02:16:38.000 Yeah.

02:16:38.000 I can't believe we missed it.

02:16:39.000 Well, I'll do what I can to make sure the weather is not as bad. 0.82

02:16:41.000 We don't mind shitty weather.

02:16:43.000 And, you know, people ask me, you know, what was it like with those guys?

02:16:46.000 They said, you know, as...

02:16:48.000 That's us. 1.00

02:16:49.000 Yeah, that's shit on a stick, which is still... 0.99

02:16:52.000 I think it's still the number one meat-eater viewed YouTube video. 0.99

02:16:58.000 We had so much fun, man.

02:17:00.000 It was so fun just hanging out, just laughing.

02:17:02.000 And there I am trying to interject some conservation wisdom into it.

02:17:06.000 It was so fun, man.

02:17:08.000 So fun.

02:17:09.000 That's one of the things about these experiences.

02:17:12.000 The camaraderie is almost as important as the hunting itself.

02:17:16.000 Just to have a bunch of guys hanging out, having a good time on your farm.

02:17:21.000 You have such a beautiful piece of land.

02:17:23.000 We were talking about earlier that we used the term driftless.

02:17:27.000 And what that means is that this is the area where the glaciers passed over.

02:17:32.000 They didn't go through this area.

02:17:34.000 So you have beautiful rolling hills.

02:17:36.000 And people think of Wisconsin as being like sort of a flat area, which it is in some spots.

02:17:41.000 Southern, yeah.

02:17:41.000 Yeah, but where you guys are at, it's amazing.

02:17:43.000 It's fucking gorgeous. 0.89

02:17:47.000 So much wildlife, too. 0.98

02:17:48.000 We saw turkeys.

02:17:50.000 We almost hit a turkey on our way to the airport.

02:17:51.000 There's three of them.

02:17:52.000 Big ones.

02:17:53.000 And that would have messed up our day.

02:17:57.000 I don't know if we'd have made it if we'd have hit one of those turkeys. 1.00

02:17:59.000 We would have made it.

02:18:00.000 I would have knocked the glass out.

02:18:01.000 We would have put our goggles on.

02:18:02.000 We would have drilled.

02:18:03.000 We would have made it.

02:18:03.000 Don't worry about us.

02:18:04.000 Don't worry about us.

02:18:06.000 You've got the fire in the belly, dude.

02:18:08.000 You said that.

02:18:09.000 Put some ski goggles on and drive all the way.

02:18:12.000 They can take out your windshield, though, right?

02:18:14.000 Big birds, man.

02:18:15.000 So...

02:18:17.000 So, we had such a good time with that, and I think when Helen and Brittany, who were beginner hunters, they wanted to have that experience similar to what you and Brian had in Montana.

02:18:30.000 You know, we don't take it easy on us because we're, you know, whatever, women or whatever it happens to be, and I would not take it easy on either one of those two for any reason because they're just... 0.99

02:18:39.000 They're badass.

02:18:40.000 Those are badass women. 1.00

02:18:41.000 Helen's addicted to jiu-jitsu.

02:18:43.000 Oh, yeah.

02:18:44.000 She's been doing jiu-jitsu with Anthony, with Tony Bourdain. 0.99

02:18:47.000 They've been going fucking crazy. 0.98

02:18:49.000 She takes it all the time. 0.99

02:18:50.000 She's lost a ton of weight.

02:18:51.000 She looks fantastic.

02:18:55.000 So we did a very similar thing.

02:18:57.000 Although this time, if you recall, when you guys were there, we had these blinds set up.

02:19:01.000 They were like pop-up blinds and stuff.

02:19:03.000 So Steve says, you know, I think we have to have them do ground blinds.

02:19:08.000 And you know how hard that was when we were inside those blinds?

02:19:11.000 They didn't really offer any heat or anything.

02:19:13.000 So it made complete sense.

02:19:14.000 Well, we built these beautiful blinds.

02:19:17.000 The one that Steve built will be there...

02:19:19.000 After the apocalypse.

02:19:20.000 Oh, so you guys built them while you were there?

02:19:22.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:19:22.000 How did you do it?

02:19:23.000 Just get some plywood and stuff?

02:19:24.000 Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

02:19:25.000 Just with what was there.

02:19:27.000 I mean, of course, Steve had to take some wire and baler twine and stuff along, and Brittany and I just went up where I was.

02:19:31.000 We'll just pull stuff together and kind of make a little...

02:19:33.000 How many days did you do this for?

02:19:35.000 The blinds?

02:19:35.000 Yeah.

02:19:36.000 Oh, a couple hours, one afternoon.

02:19:38.000 Okay, so like you say, well, what was there?

02:19:39.000 You mean like wood and boards?

02:19:41.000 Yeah, you know, branches from trees and, you know, and that sort of stuff.

02:19:45.000 Stuff that was just laying around.

02:19:47.000 What did you do with the one that I got, that I bought you? 0.99

02:19:49.000 Oh, that's up on, we call it shit on a stick, right? 0.99

02:19:53.000 LAUGHTER That's what that area is called now? 0.99

02:19:56.000 Oh yeah, you know what, we name them all.

02:19:58.000 So I put four round bales on end, and then I set it up on top of it.

02:20:05.000 Actually, the second day I went up there with my cameraman and sat.

02:20:09.000 And it didn't make the show, thankfully, but I will admit on the air that I took a shot at a deer and just clean missed her.

02:20:16.000 And I tell you, I spent a couple hours that afternoon because I just couldn't believe I missed. 0.54

02:20:20.000 Well, when we were there, I fell and fucked up my rifle scope, remember?

02:20:25.000 And you actually helped me sight it back in because I didn't know. 0.78

02:20:29.000 We had an issue with the scope being loose.

02:20:32.000 When it was set in, whoever set it in, because we changed scopes.

02:20:36.000 I had a Leopold, and we put a Vortex on.

02:20:38.000 And when we changed the scope, unfortunately, it wasn't done right.

02:20:42.000 And some steps weren't taken to secure it correctly.

02:20:47.000 You fell on it real hard.

02:20:48.000 I'm falling on it that hard, man.

02:20:50.000 But it was off, man.

02:20:52.000 It was off bad.

02:20:53.000 Like, more than a foot, or close to a foot at 100 yards.

02:20:59.000 Well, I wish I had that excuse.

02:21:01.000 I just clean missed that deer.

02:21:03.000 It was a poke, but she was standing still.

02:21:05.000 How many yards?

02:21:07.000 About 400 yards.

02:21:08.000 It was a poke. 0.99

02:21:10.000 That's a long fucking shot, man. 0.99

02:21:12.000 Uh, and, um, I just, I clean mister. 0.99

02:21:16.000 Now, do you use one of those, um, iPhone calculator apps where, like, you have to, like, figure out, like, how far it is, the velocity of your gun, you know, what are you shooting at, 30-odd sex? 0.99

02:21:27.000 Uh, actually, I had a, um, a Savage, uh, 300 Winmeg.

02:21:30.000 Oh, Jesus Christ.

02:21:31.000 That they brought for me to, you know, Oh yeah, Savage is the sponsor of the show now, right?

02:21:35.000 Yes, that's right.

02:21:36.000 Excellent guns.

02:21:37.000 Oh, wonderful.

02:21:38.000 Savage arms are fantastic.

02:21:39.000 They have that special trigger, too.

02:21:41.000 It's like the one-step, two-step process.

02:21:44.000 So they have a very light trigger, but it won't go off accidentally.

02:21:47.000 No, and it was...

02:21:50.000 Rifle was dead nuts.

02:21:52.000 Yeah, and by the way, I should say these guys I know about this stuff because of Steve Rinella's podcast It's called the meat-eater podcast which I talked him into doing and now he's now he's addicted to it, too.

02:22:01.000 Yeah It's great fun.

02:22:03.000 Doug's famous.

02:22:03.000 Great podcast.

02:22:05.000 It's a great podcast.

02:22:07.000 He's so good at it And yeah, you had the guys from vortex on there talking about different things and I learned a lot that day so anyway, I clean mist and I I know I've talked about this before on maybe the podcast.

02:22:23.000 I said I've never regretted a shot that I didn't take.

02:22:27.000 And Steve's like, really?

02:22:29.000 Because, you know, he's incredulous about most of the things that I say, but...

02:22:32.000 And most things everybody says.

02:22:34.000 Well, he challenges you, that's for sure.

02:22:36.000 But I took that shot, and I kind of regretted it, because it was a long poke.

02:22:40.000 It was a rifle that wasn't my rifle.

02:22:42.000 I wouldn't have made that shot with my own, but right over her back. 0.99

02:22:45.000 And she ducked in the whole thing, and I was sure I hit her. 0.97

02:22:48.000 I went down there, and I'm...

02:22:49.000 Did she jump the gun?

02:22:50.000 Like, did she drop down because she heard the gunfire?

02:22:53.000 No, it zinged over her back. 0.97

02:22:54.000 Ah.

02:22:55.000 And, uh...

02:22:56.000 We watched it, my cameraman and I kept watching it on the thing, and so I went right down to the spot where I marked exactly where the spot was.

02:23:02.000 We had snow and everything, and I just clean missed, and it was a shot that in retrospect I kind of wish I wouldn't have taken, especially with what was happening right then.

02:23:11.000 Deer were starting to come to the field and all that, but anyway, and the point was it was from that blind that you sent me after that hunt, and so that's where it lives is up there on top of the hill.

02:23:19.000 It's a great spot.

02:23:19.000 You'll love it when you see it.

02:23:21.000 Have you ever seen those bale blinds that look like a bale of hay and you sneaky go inside them and you're like, hey, come get some hay.

02:23:31.000 We used to make some cozy blinds.

02:23:40.000 He'd take three, four round bales and then put a little cover on top and you're in there toasty.

02:23:44.000 I missed out on the biggest buck opportunity of my life because my old man let me get out of chores in the morning.

02:23:50.000 He said, you go out in that blind.

02:23:51.000 He's like, me and your brother are going to kick one out of the swamp. 0.99

02:23:55.000 10 o'clock rolls around.

02:23:56.000 And I'm so cozy.

02:23:57.000 And I'm passed out.

02:24:00.000 And all of a sudden, I hear my old man.

02:24:02.000 He's like, hey, what are you doing?

02:24:03.000 I get up.

02:24:04.000 I'm like, what?

02:24:05.000 He's like, didn't you see that thing?

02:24:06.000 I'm like, oh, it was too small.

02:24:08.000 And I can't remember what he was calling.

02:24:09.000 He had a name for it.

02:24:11.000 And he's just like, that was, you know, that was a mega box.

02:24:14.000 You know, and oh my god.

02:24:16.000 You thought it was too small?

02:24:17.000 I was sleeping.

02:24:19.000 So I was trying to make an excuse.

02:24:20.000 I never lived that down with my old man.

02:24:22.000 Oh, that's so funny.

02:24:23.000 And we were watching that guy.

02:24:26.000 You go out shining at night.

02:24:27.000 You ever been shining?

02:24:28.000 No.

02:24:29.000 You need to do that sometimes.

02:24:31.000 Is that like moonshining?

02:24:32.000 No, you go out with a spotlight.

02:24:34.000 You just drive around the country roads and shine the deer that are out in the fields.

02:24:37.000 And you just get a gauge of how many out there.

02:24:39.000 Just kind of monitor where they're at.

02:24:41.000 Wasn't that...

02:24:41.000 Well, that's what people use for poaching, right?

02:24:44.000 Yeah.

02:24:45.000 It's legal to do during certain times.

02:24:47.000 As long as you don't have guns and you're not.

02:24:48.000 You can't do it during season.

02:24:50.000 But it's legal.

02:24:50.000 Oh, you can't do it during the rifle season, during hunting season.

02:24:54.000 No, no, no.

02:24:54.000 That's right.

02:24:55.000 It ends at a certain date.

02:24:56.000 Well, anyway, but what we did, because the other problem with those blinds, as you might remember, is you're pretty damn crowded in them.

02:25:03.000 Yeah.

02:25:03.000 And I actually sell a blind now called Shadowhunter blind, which is a different...

02:25:08.000 Oh, they're great.

02:25:09.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:25:10.000 And so I have a few of those around.

02:25:12.000 And they are great, but we couldn't, it didn't make sense to do that.

02:25:18.000 We had too many people.

02:25:18.000 Filming.

02:25:19.000 And, you know, the filming thing.

02:25:20.000 So we built cool blinds for four people, you know, two hunters and two cameramen.

02:25:25.000 But they weren't insulated then.

02:25:26.000 Oh, they sure weren't.

02:25:28.000 And the day before, well, you were there.

02:25:30.000 You know what happened.

02:25:30.000 It was beautiful the day before.

02:25:32.000 We were out squirrel hunting in the morning, and these girls were shooting squirrels, man. 1.00

02:25:36.000 Just wait until you see this.

02:25:39.000 They did such a great job.

02:25:40.000 They were so much fun, and they were just so into it. 0.53

02:25:43.000 Such good squirrel murderers.

02:25:44.000 Yeah.

02:25:45.000 Anyway.

02:25:48.000 And just like you and Brian, man, they gutted them, they cleaned them, they did the whole thing, you know, to the point where I think Helen was maybe a little regretful that she had, well, they had three deer.

02:26:01.000 They broke down completely by themselves.

02:26:03.000 So did everybody shoot a deer?

02:26:05.000 Was everybody successful?

02:26:06.000 Everybody but the guy who...

02:26:08.000 Hosted it.

02:26:09.000 You?

02:26:10.000 Yeah.

02:26:10.000 Oh, man, that's crazy.

02:26:12.000 You got a big one last year, right?

02:26:13.000 Yeah, I got a nice one last year.

02:26:14.000 I filled the freezer this year.

02:26:17.000 Later on, you know, the season goes on.

02:26:19.000 What are the...

02:26:20.000 Keep going.

02:26:20.000 Oh, I'm sorry.

02:26:21.000 Well, so we did much the same.

02:26:24.000 We set up, and it was really interesting.

02:26:26.000 We had a Marine sniper trainer.

02:26:28.000 Steve knows.

02:26:30.000 He's actually from our area there.

02:26:31.000 He came in and talked to us about shooting a little bit, you know, specifically for Helen and Brittany.

02:26:36.000 And I'm just so proud of those two.

02:26:38.000 They take it so seriously.

02:26:39.000 As seriously as you and Brian did, okay, you take it really seriously.

02:26:44.000 And Brian always took it seriously when he needed to take it seriously.

02:26:49.000 And very into it, very respectful, wanting to know about it and all that.

02:26:53.000 And I hope it, I think it comes out in the episodes.

02:26:56.000 You know, I'm so close to it, I can't necessarily say.

02:26:59.000 But we're very successful.

02:27:01.000 Well, I don't want to spoil it for everybody, but yeah, we put some deer on the ground and they did a terrific job.

02:27:10.000 And I think it makes for compelling success.

02:27:14.000 For compelling episodes as well.

02:27:16.000 That show's always awesome.

02:27:17.000 What I wanted to ask you is, with all the wildlife that you have in your area, what are the seasons?

02:27:23.000 I mean, I know you have more than one season of deer, so when does the season start?

02:27:28.000 Is the archery season first?

02:27:29.000 Yeah, archery season starts September 15th or the second Saturday in September.

02:27:34.000 How many archery, do you have a lot of archery hunters come out there? 0.93

02:27:38.000 Yeah, a lot.

02:27:40.000 On our place?

02:27:41.000 No.

02:27:41.000 No, but I'd be happy to have one or two.

02:27:45.000 I don't even like rifle hunting that much anymore.

02:27:48.000 Well, the thing about archery hunting for deer in our area is, you know, it's a very...

02:27:54.000 Well, but you've learned all this, too, hunting with Cam, is that it's...

02:27:58.000 They've got to be closer, and I don't care how many of them there are.

02:28:02.000 They've got to be close, and they've got to come, and you're going to spend some time out there, and not much has been going on.

02:28:06.000 But our archery season coincides with that first part of November, end of October, first part of November, where the pre-rut and rut is going on, so there's a lot of deer activity.

02:28:15.000 And so there are...

02:28:17.000 You know, you can call and you can use scents and all that stuff, and they're coming in.

02:28:22.000 As you know, it's a completely different relationship with the animal.

02:28:25.000 We actually have crossbow hunting.

02:28:27.000 Now you can use a crossbow, not a longbow, and personally that's what I use.

02:28:32.000 That's cheating.

02:28:33.000 Yeah, whatever.

02:28:37.000 That's not archery. 0.99

02:28:38.000 That's a shitty gun. 1.00

02:28:42.000 It has a fucking scope on it. 1.00

02:28:43.000 Yeah, it sure does. 1.00

02:28:45.000 It sure does.

02:28:46.000 It's a magnification scope.

02:28:47.000 You put the crosshair on, you pull the trigger, you sit it on a rest, you can rest it down like you can. 0.99

02:28:52.000 That is not archery, goddammit. 0.96

02:28:53.000 You can drink beer while you're doing that. 0.98

02:28:54.000 You can. 0.74

02:28:55.000 You can shoot heroin. 1.00

02:28:56.000 Shoot one of those fucking things. 1.00

02:28:58.000 Well, you don't have to practice with them much. 1.00

02:29:00.000 Yeah, at all.

02:29:01.000 And it is certainly different than shooting a rifle.

02:29:05.000 I'm comfortable at 50 or 60 yards.

02:29:07.000 With a crossbow?

02:29:08.000 Yeah, and I know people can shoot further than that.

02:29:10.000 Ethically, I'm just not interested in that.

02:29:12.000 But I am interested in...

02:29:14.000 I don't have...

02:29:17.000 Boy, if Cam was here, he'd drag me outside, or maybe you will.

02:29:21.000 I say that bow hunting is for people who don't have enough to do.

02:29:24.000 It's true.

02:29:26.000 That it takes so much time to be an ethical bow hunter.

02:29:30.000 You're talking to a guy who shot 200 arrows today.

02:29:33.000 Yeah.

02:29:33.000 I shot all day today.

02:29:34.000 I had a Hoyt representative. 0.51

02:29:36.000 Come to my house and we're shooting...

02:29:39.000 I have a whole 3D setup in my yard.

02:29:41.000 Yeah.

02:29:42.000 We're shooting a rubber elk all day today.

02:29:43.000 My arms are sore.

02:29:44.000 Yeah.

02:29:45.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:29:45.000 You've got to be an asshole. 1.00

02:29:47.000 Well, you have to be committed to it. 1.00

02:29:50.000 Yes.

02:29:50.000 And the hardest thing for me during that time of the year on the farm is to sit in a tree and wait for a deer to come by.

02:29:59.000 I've got all of these other things that I need to be doing during that period of time.

02:30:03.000 Not at my work in Madison or something like that, but on that farm.

02:30:08.000 Right, yeah.

02:30:09.000 So I'm actually moving a little bit more towards during archery season because I've not had a whole lot of archery season.

02:30:15.000 We've had a couple of guys over the years, but to start to host people, because I'm going to be there anyway.

02:30:21.000 I might not be partaking in it myself.

02:30:23.000 Well, that's actually more attractive to me than even coming on an opening day.

02:30:29.000 How long does the archery season last?

02:30:32.000 Until the first of January.

02:30:34.000 Until the first of January.

02:30:35.000 So it goes straight through?

02:30:36.000 Well, yeah, you can bow hunt during the gun season.

02:30:39.000 So I could have come down and bow hunted.

02:30:41.000 When those girls were shooting squirrels, I could have bow hunted. 1.00

02:30:43.000 Yes.

02:30:44.000 And when they were shooting deer, you could have bow hunted.

02:30:46.000 You just had to wear an orange jacket rather than camouflage.

02:30:48.000 Right, but before that, I could wear camo.

02:30:50.000 Yeah.

02:30:51.000 So I could archery hunt and then bail.

02:30:55.000 And then take off right before...

02:30:56.000 Oh, that first...

02:30:58.000 End of October, first part of November, when the active rut is going on, that's the time.

02:31:06.000 What's the deal with the black powder?

02:31:08.000 Is that still separate?

02:31:09.000 That's after...

02:31:10.000 After everything?

02:31:11.000 After the gun season.

02:31:12.000 Black power? 1.00

02:31:13.000 Black power. 0.99

02:31:14.000 I'm just kidding. 0.82

02:31:15.000 You got me.

02:31:16.000 You got me, dude.

02:31:18.000 You got me.

02:31:19.000 People don't know what we're talking about.

02:31:19.000 We're talking about muzzle loaders.

02:31:21.000 For some strange fucking reason, it's okay to use a primitive, stupid weapon that you should never use in real life. 1.00

02:31:27.000 You put a ball and you pack the powder in like you're living in the fucking 1800s and you shoot this stupid thing. 1.00

02:31:35.000 And here's the thing about muskets. 1.00

02:31:36.000 This is the weird thing about them. 0.96

02:31:38.000 They're real fucking accurate now. 0.94

02:31:40.000 Like, real accurate. 0.97

02:31:41.000 To like 200 yards.

02:31:43.000 So they're basically a rifle that you can't make a good ethical follow-up shot on.

02:31:48.000 I don't like them.

02:31:48.000 The aerodynamics are...

02:31:49.000 I get it.

02:31:50.000 Old. 1.00

02:31:51.000 Not only that, you shoot in this fucking giant cloud of smokes in front of you and you don't know what happened. 1.00

02:31:55.000 Boom! 0.99

02:31:56.000 Where's the animal?

02:31:57.000 I don't know.

02:31:57.000 Did he hit it?

02:31:58.000 Well, there'd be plenty of people you're going to hear from about that.

02:32:02.000 I know.

02:32:03.000 Listen, it is definitely more accurate and better than a bow, but my point is use a fucking gun. 0.99

02:32:11.000 If you're shooting one of those things and it's accurate to several hundred yards, I know people that have shot a deer at 250 yards with a musket. 0.99

02:32:19.000 Wow.

02:32:19.000 So with a muzzleloader, when you're getting to that kind of a distance, what is that really?

02:32:24.000 You've got a rifle. 0.99

02:32:25.000 It's a shitty rifle. 0.99

02:32:26.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:32:26.000 If you're talking about a bow, if you shot something at 200 yards, you're basically closing your eyes and shooting up at the sun. 0.99

02:32:32.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:32:32.000 You know, who the fuck knows where that arrow's going? 0.99

02:32:34.000 You're shooting 250 yards. 0.99

02:32:36.000 But with a musket or a muzzleloader, you can put the crosshair on that thing.

02:32:39.000 You can accurately judge, just like you can with a rifle.

02:32:42.000 The problem is it takes you like 15 to 20 seconds to reload, as opposed to just going, if you want to make a follow-up shot with a rifle, you know, or there's a lot of people now that are hunting with semi-automatics, you know, where they're going, bang, bang, Bang!

02:32:56.000 You can shoot a deer three times in two seconds.

02:32:59.000 The thing about the Black Potter is you've got to have your bayonet for the finish.

02:33:04.000 The Civil War!

02:33:05.000 Boom! 0.99

02:33:06.000 And then you're on the run.

02:33:07.000 Do you have to have a flint?

02:33:09.000 It hits the thing and makes the spark.

02:33:10.000 Johnny Reb. 0.78

02:33:11.000 Yeah.

02:33:12.000 I mean, everybody has their preference.

02:33:14.000 Yes.

02:33:14.000 I guess the thing on my family's farm, you know, I'm the captain, and the captain gets to decide what happens.

02:33:21.000 Yeah.

02:33:23.000 And so, you know, and it's like, oh, this is the way it's going to be.

02:33:26.000 I'm not absolute about anything.

02:33:27.000 You know, over time, things kind of ebb and flow and change.

02:33:30.000 And, you know, for me, well, I still want to be out there in that first part of November.

02:33:37.000 I don't have to practice every day.

02:33:38.000 I can't where I live.

02:33:40.000 I don't have to become, and I readily admit it, you know, I have an old Hoyt.

02:33:45.000 And I like the bow, and I'll shoot it once in a while, but man, 20 yards is about it where I feel like I can make an ethical shot.

02:33:51.000 How dare you?

02:33:52.000 We need to get you a new Hoyt.

02:33:53.000 What year Hoyt do you have?

02:33:55.000 Oh man, I'd have to check with Shane, the guy I bought it from.

02:33:58.000 I bought it from him, used, because he was upgrading.

02:34:00.000 So it's like in the 60s, like one of them bamboo ones?

02:34:05.000 I think it's like a mid-80s, maybe a late-80s. 0.98

02:34:09.000 Laundry wheels, like for fucking laundry ropes? 0.99

02:34:12.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.99

02:34:14.000 Mid-80s, for real?

02:34:16.000 Mid to late 80s, yeah.

02:34:18.000 Maybe it was early 90s.

02:34:19.000 I'm sure I'll hear from you.

02:34:19.000 Why don't you choose a slingshot?

02:34:20.000 Do you have any rocks you can throw? 1.00

02:34:22.000 What the fuck are you doing, man? 1.00

02:34:26.000 Spear. 1.00

02:34:27.000 Jumping on the tree.

02:34:28.000 You know, it's just not my priority.

02:34:32.000 And I have a lot of...

02:34:35.000 I have a lot of respect for bow hunters who spend the time to become that proficient at it.

02:34:40.000 And then you end up spending a lot of time whitetail hunting in our areas.

02:34:43.000 There's guys who spend a lot of time doing that.

02:34:45.000 And like I said, I just don't...

02:34:46.000 I totally understand.

02:34:48.000 I totally understand. 0.99

02:34:49.000 I'm totally busting your balls. 0.99

02:34:50.000 It's not something that I would... 0.99

02:34:52.000 I don't think anybody should do it.

02:34:54.000 How about that?

02:34:55.000 Don't do it.

02:34:56.000 Don't go bow hunting.

02:34:56.000 It's too much work.

02:34:57.000 And it's too addictive.

02:34:59.000 Forget about bow hunting.

02:35:00.000 If I never hunt again for the rest of my life, archery is massively addictive.

02:35:04.000 I love it.

02:35:05.000 I shoot every day.

02:35:06.000 It's so much fun.

02:35:08.000 To me, it's a nice, peaceful meditation type of a thing.

02:35:12.000 Do they have ranges out here?

02:35:14.000 Yeah.

02:35:14.000 Yeah, there's a bunch.

02:35:16.000 There's a big one off of the 210. It's a fucking huge long distance range. 0.90

02:35:22.000 But I think that it's a nice meditation. 0.98

02:35:24.000 It's nice to do.

02:35:25.000 But when it comes to compound bows, man, it's really the difference between a bow from the 1980s and a modern, like, 2016 Hoyt Defiant.

02:35:33.000 You might as well be shooting a musket versus, like, a modern Savage Arms rifle.

02:35:37.000 It's not that much difference.

02:35:39.000 I mean, the amount of...

02:35:42.000 The power that these things have now and the speed in which they shoot arrows and the accuracy.

02:35:47.000 There's so much technology and engineering going into bows.

02:35:49.000 It's really kind of amazing because it's one of the few pieces of hunting equipment that literally changes and improves every year. 0.98

02:35:56.000 And so I think about that when I hear the bowhunting purist friends who are just cackling right now about you giving me shit about bowhunting, which is great. 0.97

02:36:06.000 I mean, they're going to love it. 0.98

02:36:07.000 Well, there's a real purist thing. 1.00

02:36:09.000 I'm a pussy because they use a compound bow. 0.98

02:36:10.000 They use recurves because they like not being accurate at all. 1.00

02:36:15.000 They're like fucking hoping they hit shit. 1.00

02:36:18.000 Boink! 1.00

02:36:20.000 And they're getting mad at me right now. 1.00

02:36:22.000 Fuck you, you pussy! 1.00

02:36:26.000 Shoot a real bow like a man with your fingers. 1.00

02:36:29.000 Go and make it yourself, too. 0.97

02:36:30.000 Get some leather from the last animal you shot and wrap it around your fingers.

02:36:34.000 I actually think that Steve was talking about on this upcoming Butchering one about how they used to take the silver skin off of meat, and they'd get the long strips of it, and that's what they made their bow strings out of it.

02:36:46.000 Yeah, strings with.

02:36:47.000 Yeah, sinew.

02:36:48.000 That's amazing.

02:36:49.000 I used to dry it out and roll it and turn it into...

02:36:52.000 I mean, did you see his thing from when he was in the jungle?

02:36:57.000 Was it Bornea? 0.99

02:36:58.000 Where the fuck did he go? 1.00

02:36:59.000 Bolivia. 1.00

02:36:59.000 Yeah, Bolivia. 1.00

02:37:01.000 Goddamn, that was an amazing show. 0.99

02:37:02.000 Two-part episode where they went to Bolivia and the traditional bows those guys used to kill animals... 0.98

02:37:08.000 They had these really heavy, really long arrows and these stick bows that they had made themselves.

02:37:16.000 And he showed up with a Hoyt carbon spider.

02:37:19.000 And he's drilling.

02:37:20.000 Yeah, there's the bows that these guys had.

02:37:23.000 Well, look at that arrow.

02:37:24.000 Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

02:37:25.000 They had these really long, really heavy arrows.

02:37:28.000 And notice how there's no fletchings on the arrow.

02:37:30.000 And he's got the follow-up arrow right there in his hand, too.

02:37:33.000 Yeah, they keep them in their hands.

02:37:35.000 And I remember on this episode how he struggled to hit the fish because of how the water would deflect the arrow, I should say.

02:37:45.000 And these guys are just, like, nailing them one after another.

02:37:48.000 Well, it's not just that.

02:37:48.000 It's not the water deflecting.

02:37:50.000 It's the image.

02:37:51.000 It looks different.

02:37:52.000 The fish is actually, it could be as much as six inches lower than what you think.

02:37:57.000 Because the refraction in the water, you're looking down at almost like a lens.

02:38:01.000 So it's like distorted where the actual fish is.

02:38:04.000 So if you shot right at the fish, you would never hit it.

02:38:07.000 You have to shoot like below it.

02:38:08.000 It's real weird.

02:38:09.000 You ever see the ones that people use in America?

02:38:13.000 It's like a trident.

02:38:14.000 It's like a big, you know, you're kind of...

02:38:18.000 Making up for that.

02:38:20.000 We have all these prongs.

02:38:22.000 And they shoot these arrows.

02:38:24.000 Or like a long spear when they're doing sturgeon.

02:38:27.000 The shocker.

02:38:29.000 When I was a kid, we used to shoot carp up at the end of the lake.

02:38:33.000 But they're...

02:38:35.000 Because the water's real shallow, and they'd go up there and just raise hell, and their backs would be out of the water.

02:38:39.000 So you weren't dealing with it.

02:38:41.000 Right, right, right.

02:38:42.000 Yeah.

02:38:43.000 I used to live near Lake Charles in Boston, and there was an area by the waterfall where the carp would pool up.

02:38:51.000 And it was incredible.

02:38:52.000 I mean, you're looking at these 20, 30-pound fish, and there's dozens of them just stacked together, and you see them on the surface of the water.

02:38:59.000 You know, but it's a junk fish to us, but a delicacy to people in the UK and in Asia.

02:39:06.000 It's very interesting.

02:39:07.000 Yeah, people smoke it.

02:39:08.000 Yeah, when one person decides it's a good fish, and then, you know, the problem was they're an invasive species in a lot of the North American rivers and lakes, and people don't like them for whatever silly reason.

02:39:20.000 But they're a very good fish to eat, apparently, if you prepare it properly.

02:39:24.000 You know, a lot of things.

02:39:26.000 I mean, one of the things about grass-fed beef is, you know, a lot of times it doesn't have the fat.

02:39:32.000 So, I mean, you've got to know how to cook it.

02:39:33.000 You can't overcook it.

02:39:34.000 Right, that's a big point.

02:39:35.000 I mean, you can say about any kind of meat. 0.99

02:39:37.000 I mean, people can fuck up a really good piece of meat.

02:39:40.000 Well, especially a real lean piece of deer, venison or elk or something like that, moose. 0.92

02:39:45.000 Same thing.

02:39:46.000 You want to barely singe the outside of it almost.

02:39:49.000 And knowing how to prepare it is a big part of the responsibility of hunting.

02:39:55.000 You don't want to... 1.00

02:39:57.000 Have this meat that you've got from this animal, and you have so much reverence for the death of this animal, and then you just prepare it like an asshole. 1.00

02:40:04.000 You have to put almost as much thought into the cooking. 0.99

02:40:07.000 It's one of the things I really love about Ronella's show.

02:40:10.000 The episode that I watched last night about that Idaho mule deer that he shot, this enormous deer, was really focused on, at the end of it, how he prepared it.

02:40:19.000 You know, he showed you how to prepare it and how to cook it properly and how you can tell when it's done and all this different stuff.

02:40:24.000 And he'll go through the butchering process, he'll go through the cooking process.

02:40:28.000 And that's something a lot of these shows, they don't even touch, man.

02:40:31.000 They get the deer, look at him, he's a real Iowa giant!

02:40:34.000 And they take a picture of this animal and they show the antlers, look at his fourths and his fifths and look at his brow tying and sticking up like this.

02:40:41.000 Or down in Texas.

02:40:42.000 Or they're in the tower down in Texas.

02:40:45.000 Yeah.

02:40:45.000 Well, there's a lot of that.

02:40:46.000 A lot of donating.

02:40:47.000 A lot of donating.

02:40:48.000 I suppose that's a good thing.

02:40:49.000 Yes, it is a good thing.

02:40:51.000 But there's also shows where they pretend, you know, we're out here hunting. 0.98

02:40:54.000 You know, you got these fucking piles of corn out there that you're waiting for these animals to come to. 0.98

02:40:58.000 And you're just kind of shooting at these spots where you know they're going to be. 0.99

02:41:02.000 Isn't that interesting?

02:41:04.000 That's always an interesting part of any discussion about hunting, about where are the ethical lines.

02:41:08.000 Because guys will say, well, because baiting is illegal by us because of chronic wasting disease.

02:41:14.000 When you put a pile of corn out, they're exchanging saliva, and that's how it was spread.

02:41:19.000 That's interesting.

02:41:20.000 But you guys do have some deer farms, which is where people think the origins of chronic wasting disease are from.

02:41:27.000 Yeah.

02:41:28.000 I heard an interesting discussion about that recently and one of the things they talked about is that there were these protein blocks being put out and that may have been...

02:41:36.000 they've never...

02:41:39.000 There have been a few different ideas of where it came from, and one is from the deer farms, and another is these protein blocks that maybe got put out, and it's got animal byproduct in it, and maybe that's how it jumps species.

02:41:53.000 Oh, so is it like a prion thing?

02:41:56.000 That's exactly what it is, is a prion.

02:41:57.000 So it's similar to mad cow disease, then?

02:41:59.000 That's exactly right.

02:42:00.000 Oh, wow.

02:42:01.000 So would that have come?

02:42:02.000 I don't know.

02:42:03.000 And I've even heard it said that there are places where they were trying to improve the genetics of the deer herd, so they were bringing in bigger bucks and releasing them.

02:42:14.000 I don't have any proof of any of it, so those are just the things you hear.

02:42:17.000 That could be the case.

02:42:18.000 They are very concerned with people that release these animals from these farms out. 0.98

02:42:23.000 But there's some fucking places, like I got contacted by this guy. 0.99

02:42:26.000 Hey man, come hunt at my place. 0.99

02:42:28.000 And then I looked at his Instagram page and I'm like, that's not even a fucking deer. 0.98

02:42:32.000 It's a big cage. 0.99

02:42:33.000 Well, I don't want to talk shit because I don't know this guy and I don't know why, but it's a high-fence operation. 0.99

02:42:41.000 I don't even want to say what state it is, but they're barely deer. 0.99

02:42:45.000 There are these deer that have these fucking bushes growing out of their heads. 0.99

02:42:49.000 If you see what their antlers look like, you're like, okay, that's not even real. 0.99

02:42:53.000 Jamie, pull up this. 0.96

02:42:56.000 Ridiculous antlers in a deer farm. 0.97

02:42:59.000 They're growing these animals. 0.99

02:43:01.000 I've seen it, man.

02:43:02.000 Trophy. 0.97

02:43:03.000 You call them trophies, but essentially they're manipulating the genetics of these animals so that they have all these antlers so that these rich assholes can go and shoot these things in this 100-acre fenced-in area where they're letting these animals out of their pens. 0.98

02:43:18.000 Look at that. 0.98

02:43:19.000 What is that?

02:43:20.000 What are we looking at here, man?

02:43:22.000 And you're killing that deer for one reason.

02:43:23.000 So you could put that on your wall. 0.96

02:43:26.000 I mean, I'm sure you could kill it and it would taste just like a regular deer. 0.81

02:43:30.000 I'm sure they're delicious.

02:43:31.000 But look at this, man. 0.99

02:43:33.000 So they're growing these insane antlers by feeding them supplements and feeding them the shit that makes their antler steroids, that makes their antlers grow. 1.00

02:43:44.000 They don't look like antlers, man. 0.99

02:43:45.000 It looks like tumors. 0.99

02:43:47.000 It looks like balls. 0.97

02:43:48.000 Well, like Doug said, we were talking about this. 0.99

02:43:51.000 It's criminal.

02:43:52.000 I mean, Doug's very strongly opinionated about that.

02:43:55.000 I mean, that's...

02:43:56.000 It's criminal.

02:43:57.000 Be careful what I say.

02:43:59.000 Well, the cage in a man.

02:44:00.000 Caging a man and having, you know, 300 acres isn't that big, and you got this 300-acre cage.

02:44:06.000 You know, that's not hunting.

02:44:07.000 Yeah, but I said earlier...

02:44:08.000 That's fish in a barrel.

02:44:09.000 But I said earlier that on 40 acres, that's where that deer lived.

02:44:13.000 But you know what?

02:44:14.000 He could leave that 40 acres whenever he wanted to.

02:44:16.000 If he wants to.

02:44:16.000 And he wasn't coming to a bait pile or any of that kind of stuff.

02:44:19.000 That's a big part of ethics, right?

02:44:21.000 And I figured him out.

02:44:22.000 Yeah, and I guess that's where I was getting to, is where those lines are.

02:44:26.000 Well, this is the hunting that I grew up with.

02:44:29.000 I've never hunted outside the Midwest.

02:44:32.000 I've really only hunted outside of our farm twice.

02:44:35.000 Right.

02:44:35.000 Well, I have a friend who hunted in Texas at a ranch that has 10,000 acres fenced in.

02:44:40.000 I'm like, well, as far as I'm concerned, those are wild animals.

02:44:42.000 Yeah.

02:44:43.000 10,000 acres?

02:44:44.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:44:45.000 I mean, there's not a fucking animal on Earth that's going to travel that far, other than a mule deer. 0.99

02:44:49.000 There's not an animal on Earth that's going to migrate further than that in its lifetime. 0.98

02:44:52.000 You essentially have this gigantic fenced-in habitat.

02:44:55.000 And their idea about it is, look, we can manage the wildlife, sustainable wildlife inside.

02:45:01.000 We're not feeding them anything.

02:45:02.000 They live off this land, but we're just keeping people out.

02:45:05.000 We're not keeping the animals in.

02:45:07.000 We're keeping people out.

02:45:08.000 I'm like, okay.

02:45:09.000 I can buy that.

02:45:10.000 A line in a song, I think, yeah.

02:45:11.000 Is that a line in a song?

02:45:12.000 A line in a song.

02:45:13.000 Put up the fence to keep me out or keep all the nature in.

02:45:16.000 Keep all the nature in.

02:45:18.000 If God was here, he'd tell it to your face. 0.99

02:45:21.000 Man, you're some kind of sinner. 0.99

02:45:24.000 That's hippies, though. 1.00

02:45:25.000 That's hippies who want to fucking get on your land, by the way. 1.00

02:45:27.000 You ever hear that bit where they're like, the part about the sign, the sign said, anybody caught trespassing will be shot on sight. 0.99

02:45:38.000 It's like a radial bit.

02:45:40.000 And then it ends.

02:45:43.000 That's the end of the song.

02:45:44.000 It's complicated business.

02:45:45.000 It's all a complicated business.

02:45:47.000 And these ethical lines are difficult.

02:45:52.000 It's something that you have to think about.

02:45:54.000 It's something you have to talk about.

02:45:57.000 You've got to be willing to change your mind sometimes, too.

02:45:59.000 Well, baiting bears is a big one.

02:46:01.000 Baiting bears is a big one because there's a lot of places where the only way, especially in the spring, you're ever going to kill a bear is if you bait.

02:46:08.000 So they have to control the population of these bears because the bears are killing moose.

02:46:11.000 They're killing calves. 0.98

02:46:13.000 They're killing fawns from deer.

02:46:15.000 They're killing all sorts of things.

02:46:17.000 And they're killing cubs. 0.92

02:46:18.000 They're killing each other.

02:46:19.000 I mean, the bears are killing machines. 0.70

02:46:21.000 So when they have these environments where they have to control the population, they allow baiting.

02:46:25.000 The reason why they allow baiting is to make a successful hunt.

02:46:28.000 And recently, I think in Maine it was, I don't know if they passed it, but they were trying to pass no baiting on bears.

02:46:34.000 And the reason why they were doing it is because anti-hunting people were trying to stop people from hunting bears.

02:46:39.000 So the way they would essentially make a hunt completely ineffective was saying no baiting.

02:46:44.000 Because as soon as you can't bait, you can't find them.

02:46:46.000 Yeah, you're not going to have any success.

02:46:48.000 You don't find them. 0.94

02:46:50.000 I have friends who live in Michigan, and they were telling me, listen, man, you could go a fucking decade without seeing a bear in the woods. 0.64

02:46:57.000 Meanwhile, they're everywhere. 0.80

02:46:58.000 Yeah.

02:46:59.000 You just don't find them. 1.00

02:47:00.000 You go near them, they hear a snap and twig, like, fuck this guy. 1.00

02:47:04.000 And they walk so quiet. 1.00

02:47:06.000 Those pads.

02:47:07.000 It's one of the weirdest things about bear hunting, is when you're out there and you're waiting.

02:47:12.000 You stand by a trail where you know they head by.

02:47:14.000 You'll see one before you hear it.

02:47:17.000 They'll just be right there. 0.99

02:47:18.000 You're like, oh shit, he's right there. 1.00

02:47:20.000 They're just so goddamn quiet. 1.00

02:47:22.000 Amazing that such a big animal could be so quiet. 0.98

02:47:25.000 With slippers on their feet.

02:47:26.000 They have slippers.

02:47:27.000 Like moccasins.

02:47:28.000 Yeah, I mean, they're pads.

02:47:29.000 Have you ever touched a bear's pads?

02:47:31.000 It's weird, man. 1.00

02:47:32.000 And it's designed to creep up on shit. 1.00

02:47:34.000 You know? 1.00

02:47:35.000 I mean, that's why cats have them, too.

02:47:36.000 They have those pads at the bottom of their feet. 0.60

02:47:38.000 Why don't they have hooves? 0.99

02:47:39.000 Wouldn't hooves be better?

02:47:41.000 Yeah, well, hooves make too much noise. 0.99

02:47:43.000 You can't be jacking shit with all that noise. 0.99

02:47:45.000 So they come creeping up on you, but they're like little ghosts, man. 0.99

02:47:50.000 Weird.

02:47:50.000 Cats and bears.

02:47:52.000 They're ghosts. 1.00

02:47:53.000 Pad, slipper-wearing fucking ghosts. 1.00

02:47:57.000 No! 1.00

02:47:58.000 Oh, good stuff.

02:47:59.000 Listen, I think we're done.

02:48:01.000 I think we should wrap this pitch up and bring it home.

02:48:04.000 This was a lot of fun, man.

02:48:05.000 Thank you.

02:48:05.000 Absolutely.

02:48:06.000 Hey, I appreciate the opportunity, man.

02:48:08.000 Thank you, Doug.

02:48:09.000 Would say a little bit about, yeah, thank you very much.

02:48:12.000 And to steal a line from Ray Wiley Hubbard, the days I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations are really good days.

02:48:19.000 And today is about as good a day as you could get.

02:48:21.000 Well, I really enjoyed it.

02:48:23.000 I appreciate you guys flying out here and doing this, and I'm glad we could have this conversation and get your perspective on things, because I think a lot of people have, you know...

02:48:32.000 Listeners, continue the discussion, man.

02:48:34.000 I mean, never stop learning.

02:48:36.000 That's what it's all about, really.

02:48:37.000 I mean, this is all about just trying to figure out other people's perspectives.

02:48:40.000 Work together.

02:48:41.000 Work together, man.

02:48:42.000 Okay, man. 1.00

02:48:44.000 Just stay the fuck off Doug's land, you hippies. 1.00

02:48:46.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:48:47.000 Alright, thank you, friends.

02:48:49.000 We'll be back tomorrow with the great Boss Rutten and Mauro Ranallo.

02:48:53.000 Should be a lot of fun.

02:48:54.000 And then on Friday, Robin Black, my pal Robin.

02:48:57.000 And then on Sunday night, Fight Companion.

02:49:00.000 Alright, so we'll see you soon.

02:49:02.000 Much love, friends.

02:49:05.000 That was cool!

The Joe Rogan Experience - February 16, 2016

Joe Rogan Experience #760 - Doug Duren & Nathan Ihde

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