The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #761 - Bas Rutten

00:00:00.000 Dum-dum-dum-dum-dum!

00:00:02.000 And we're live!

00:00:03.000 Unfortunately, Mauro Ranallo is deathly ill, and he cannot make it here.

00:00:09.000 But the great Bas Rutin!

00:00:11.000 Boom! 0.99

00:00:11.000 Basito! 0.99

00:00:12.000 Yes!

00:00:13.000 El Guapo! 0.98

00:00:14.000 Yes!

00:00:14.000 Is here!

00:00:15.000 Former UFC heavyweight champion and your friend Kevin Randleman.

00:00:19.000 Unfortunately, the guy you won the title from passed away recently.

00:00:23.000 Yeah.

00:00:23.000 That was sad, huh?

00:00:24.000 Yeah, the conspiracy theory was already...

00:00:27.000 I saw online because he didn't...

00:00:28.000 Morrow didn't do WWE yesterday evening, so they said he was at the funeral of Kevin Rennelman.

00:00:34.000 I said, no, that's not true.

00:00:36.000 He's really sick at home.

00:00:38.000 But yeah, that was the craziest news.

00:00:40.000 We found out after we just did our podcast.

00:00:42.000 Yeah.

00:00:43.000 And then we went online and...

00:00:45.000 What happened to him?

00:00:46.000 He got sick?

00:00:47.000 He got sick, pneumonia, and then his heart came out.

00:00:49.000 They couldn't revive him.

00:00:51.000 Well, he had staph infection worse than anybody I've ever seen in my life.

00:00:55.000 Did you ever see some of the pictures?

00:00:57.000 You know what I said to people?

00:00:58.000 If you use smokeless tobacco, you know, that little box, you could literally put in that hole that he had in his chest.

00:01:04.000 Remember that?

00:01:04.000 Oh, yeah.

00:01:05.000 It was insane.

00:01:06.000 Well, we'll show the picture.

00:01:07.000 Jamie, see if you can find the picture.

00:01:08.000 Kevin Randleman, staph infection.

00:01:10.000 I never knew that it could get this bad, but he had holes in his body where you could look in and you'd see all the tissue and tendons.

00:01:19.000 I mean, it's just incredible.

00:01:22.000 Did you see it there, Jamie?

00:01:24.000 I mean, I'm talking like a fist-size hole.

00:01:26.000 It was crazy.

00:01:28.000 You know, this guy survived everything as well.

00:01:30.000 Look at that.

00:01:31.000 Oof.

00:01:32.000 It's just incredible.

00:01:33.000 I just don't...

00:01:34.000 And he fought after this, too, by the way.

00:01:36.000 Yeah, it's insane.

00:01:37.000 He got that fixed up and he fought afterwards.

00:01:40.000 But when your body is that compromised from something like that, I'm assuming that was MRSA, the medication-resistant salve infection.

00:01:49.000 That stuff is real dangerous, and people die from it all the time.

00:01:53.000 Look at his leg, too.

00:01:54.000 Look how swollen his ankle and his foot is.

00:01:57.000 Oh, my God.

00:01:58.000 Very scary.

00:01:59.000 Oh, God.

00:02:00.000 And Kevin Renneman in his prime.

00:02:03.000 I mean, what a stud.

00:02:04.000 What a specimen that guy was.

00:02:06.000 To see him that compromised...

00:02:10.000 I mean, I don't know if he just ignored it and it just kept getting worse and worse.

00:02:13.000 I don't know what happened.

00:02:15.000 I don't know either, you know, but I have the feeling that it's like with all the fighters, we're pretty much the same.

00:02:20.000 You're probably the same as well.

00:02:22.000 You know, you have something, you feel bad, you know, your lungs, oh, everything is hurting.

00:02:25.000 Whatever, man.

00:02:26.000 You know, I'll take care of that tomorrow once it gets worse.

00:02:29.000 Not realizing, because we're pushing all the limits all the time, that at the moment you're feeling it's probably really bad already.

00:02:34.000 You should check it out.

00:02:35.000 But, you know, just push it away.

00:02:37.000 Let's get rid of my, let's do my work first.

00:02:39.000 And then we'll take care of that later.

00:02:41.000 That was too late.

00:02:42.000 That's the feeling I have.

00:02:44.000 That is a problem with mental toughness in some fighters.

00:02:48.000 They just keep pushing through injuries.

00:02:50.000 And I've always suspected that that might be the case with Kane, why Kane keeps getting injured over and over again.

00:02:55.000 And now that, you know, he's starting to get some serious injuries where he's had back surgery now, both shoulder surgery, knee surgery.

00:03:02.000 I mean, this is a guy in his prime.

00:03:04.000 I mean, I think Kane is only like 33 or something like that, right?

00:03:07.000 He should be rejected.

00:03:09.000 Generating like this, like nothing.

00:03:11.000 As a heavyweight, that's your prime.

00:03:13.000 The early 30s for heavyweights are generally when they really come into their own.

00:03:18.000 And to see him constantly injured, I've always suspected it's just his mental toughness is almost like a burden because he pushes through everything.

00:03:27.000 You know, Chris Weidman, I think the same thing with his knees.

00:03:30.000 He's had some serious knee problems.

00:03:31.000 It's because they, you know, they have the problem. 1.00

00:03:33.000 They just go, fuck it. 1.00

00:03:34.000 Let's just keep going. 1.00

00:03:35.000 And they can block out pain in a way that, you know, most people, they get a serious knee injury.

00:03:40.000 They go, boy, I got to go to the doctor.

00:03:42.000 I got to get this checked out.

00:03:43.000 Not when you're in the middle of camp and you're defending your title. 0.99

00:03:45.000 You fucking keep pushing through it. 0.97

00:03:47.000 Yeah, I'm telling all my students now because I used to be exactly like all the other guys. 0.99

00:03:52.000 I say, if you have an injury and the doctor tells you, take two months off, take four months off.

00:03:57.000 That's my advice now.

00:03:58.000 Take double the amount off.

00:04:00.000 Everybody does the opposite.

00:04:01.000 Two months becomes one month or three weeks.

00:04:04.000 Don't do that because later in life, like with what happened with me, It will backfire for you.

00:04:09.000 It's such a good piece of advice right there because so many guys, especially ACL surgeries, how many times have we seen guys get their knee reconstructed and then they try to get back on the mat too quick and pop!

00:04:21.000 Pops again.

00:04:22.000 The new knee blows out again and you're looking at another six to nine months.

00:04:26.000 It's so, so common.

00:04:27.000 Look at Dominic Cruz, also Benji Reddick, he had like also like a, from a corpse, from an illegal corpse, he had something in his knee.

00:04:34.000 An illegal corpse?

00:04:34.000 Oh, they had the FBI, yeah, and it was illegally obtained.

00:04:38.000 It was, he got a letter from the FBI, he almost lost his leg.

00:04:42.000 And then he had this...

00:04:44.000 We went to dinner with him one time.

00:04:46.000 He had a machine on him that filtered his blood everywhere he went.

00:04:50.000 He got this crazy infection.

00:04:52.000 And then years later, he gets a letter from the FBI, and it was a guy who was illegally handled in donors, in whatever they need for knees and for everything, like organs.

00:05:05.000 And they found that guy, yeah.

00:05:07.000 And it was from a cadaver that was infected, and that's why he had all that problem. 0.99

00:05:11.000 Holy shit. 1.00

00:05:11.000 Shit. 1.00

00:05:12.000 It was really crazy. 1.00

00:05:13.000 Did he get a discount or something like that?

00:05:14.000 Is that what the idea is?

00:05:15.000 Yeah, maybe later.

00:05:16.000 You know, just write it down.

00:05:17.000 Rain check.

00:05:18.000 Before the other knee happens.

00:05:19.000 Benji Raddick is a guy a lot of people forgot about. 0.99

00:05:21.000 He's a fucking talented guy. 0.99

00:05:24.000 Very talented. 0.99

00:05:25.000 At the time, when they called me crazy, when Anderson Silva was at the peak of his career, I said, if I have six months with Benji, And he would listen to me because sometimes he gets that ego that, oh, I can strike with him.

00:05:37.000 No, you know, you don't need to.

00:05:39.000 Take him down, then strike him, you know, because he would knock people out with one punch. 0.95

00:05:42.000 This guy hit so hard, he would hurt my hands on the focus mitts. 0.99

00:05:46.000 Wow.

00:05:46.000 I'm the craziest power he has.

00:05:48.000 And I'm telling you, his wrestling was so good, he would just take him down and just beat him up.

00:05:54.000 I guarantee you that.

00:05:55.000 That's how powerful he was.

00:05:56.000 Wow.

00:05:57.000 You know, there's a lot of guys that don't realize their potential.

00:06:00.000 And Benji Raddick was one of those guys that people would always talk about in the gym.

00:06:03.000 You know, they say, like, boy, if he could figure out how to put it all together.

00:06:07.000 We did a few times at the IFL. And when he was training for the Anacondas, he was there.

00:06:11.000 Yeah.

00:06:12.000 And then he started listening.

00:06:13.000 And people go, like, man, you transformed him into a kickboxer.

00:06:17.000 No, he's just listening at this moment.

00:06:19.000 But when you face another guy, like, for instance, he fought Scott Smith.

00:06:23.000 Yeah.

00:06:24.000 You know, and I told him, I said, don't brawl with the guy.

00:06:27.000 Yeah, but are people going to think I don't want to?

00:06:29.000 I said, well, blame it on me.

00:06:30.000 Tell him that I said so, otherwise I'm not going to train you anymore.

00:06:33.000 And of course, the fight starts, Smith comes out, and he starts brawling with the guy.

00:06:37.000 That's what the guy does.

00:06:38.000 Don't do it.

00:06:39.000 It's like with Vanderlei Silva.

00:06:40.000 Don't brawl with the guy. 0.99

00:06:41.000 You know, you just got to pick him apart from the outside and shoot, take him down. 0.92

00:06:45.000 He got in trouble at the end of the first round. 0.99

00:06:48.000 Then he took him down, hit him once.

00:06:50.000 It was the end of the round, but almost had Scott Smith.

00:06:54.000 Second round, exactly the same thing.

00:06:56.000 I lost my voice.

00:06:57.000 I just stopped yelling.

00:06:59.000 I said, why don't you take him down?

00:07:01.000 Take him down! 0.99

00:07:02.000 Beat him up, knock him out! 0.99

00:07:04.000 It's really that easy for you. 0.99

00:07:05.000 Do it!

00:07:06.000 But he didn't.

00:07:07.000 He goes to funny thing when guys want to beat guys at their own game, or they want to show that they're not afraid to stand with people. 1.00

00:07:13.000 Stupidity! 1.00

00:07:15.000 It's hard to, you know, that fucking thing that makes you great in the first place, that makes you a fighter in the first place, a lot of times can bite you in the ass. 1.00

00:07:23.000 Just don't do what the other person is best at. 0.99

00:07:27.000 If there's one thing he's weaker than yours, go do that, whatever it is.

00:07:31.000 Whether it's ground...

00:07:33.000 When it was striking.

00:07:34.000 Well, that was one thing that GSP was always so good at.

00:07:36.000 He was always so good at imposing his strengths.

00:07:39.000 If a guy was good at wrestling, he would try to keep the fight standing.

00:07:42.000 If a guy was good at standing, he would take him down.

00:07:46.000 GSP was so good at that.

00:07:47.000 And being unpredictable, too, as to what his approach was going to be.

00:07:50.000 He thought he was going to strike, and then he's going to take you down. 0.57

00:07:52.000 You think he's going to take you down, and then he's going to kick you.

00:07:54.000 He was like the La Jolla.

00:07:56.000 The La Jolla, every time when he fought, he had...

00:07:58.000 New technique, he used new combinations.

00:08:01.000 And the same thing happened with GSP. Every time you saw him, Josh Kosciak, I remember the fight, it was a jab and it was a spinning back kick to the body.

00:08:10.000 And he nailed it over and over again.

00:08:12.000 You knew that for the six weeks, eight weeks, whatever he was training, they worked on that.

00:08:17.000 For the rest you ad-lib a little bit, what you normally do.

00:08:20.000 But you know, just pepper him.

00:08:21.000 Yeah, the Josh Kostek fight, man, that was an ugly one when his eyes swole up like that.

00:08:27.000 Josh was in seriously bad shape after that.

00:08:29.000 He couldn't fly after that fight.

00:08:31.000 That was one where they had a drive from, I think they had that fight in Toronto.

00:08:36.000 Was it Toronto or Montreal?

00:08:38.000 I think that was Toronto, right?

00:08:39.000 No.

00:08:40.000 I believe it was Montreal because I think Toronto was Jake Shields.

00:08:45.000 That was the big one at the Rogers Center, right?

00:08:47.000 I have no clue.

00:08:48.000 I think so.

00:08:48.000 Either way, he was in Canada and he had to drive down to Boston.

00:08:52.000 I believe he had to stay there for a couple weeks before he could even fly back home to San Jose.

00:08:57.000 Wow.

00:08:58.000 So you think that will blow up in the air as well?

00:09:00.000 I guess.

00:09:01.000 I don't know.

00:09:01.000 It was so bad.

00:09:02.000 It was an orbital fracture.

00:09:04.000 There's a picture of it right there.

00:09:05.000 And that's after the fight.

00:09:07.000 But it was so bad that they had to operate on it.

00:09:10.000 And those blowout fractures of the eyes apparently are extremely painful and very dangerous, too, because it's the bone behind the eye that gets broken.

00:09:20.000 So they have to go in behind the eye and repair that bone, and sometimes when they do that, your eyeball is never the same again.

00:09:28.000 It looks different.

00:09:30.000 Like, do you remember Bob Sapp after Krokop hit him?

00:09:32.000 In Pride, I believe you called that fight.

00:09:34.000 I called that fight, yeah, I was there.

00:09:35.000 Remember, Krokop cracked him with a left hand.

00:09:37.000 Was it Pride or was it K1? No, it was Pride.

00:09:41.000 Oh, wait a minute.

00:09:42.000 Maybe it was kickboxing.

00:09:43.000 I think it was kickboxing.

00:09:44.000 You know, it was because I was actually training Bob Seymour, whatever you call it, training.

00:09:48.000 I trained him one and a half times.

00:09:49.000 The rest he was doing interviews.

00:09:51.000 Oh, really?

00:09:52.000 I go, dude, this guy right now in Croatia, he's kicking a bag. 0.99

00:09:55.000 He wants to kill you because you're on the top of the world right now. 0.98

00:10:00.000 He just beat Host twice. 0.92

00:10:02.000 Yeah, Ernesto Host.

00:10:03.000 That is crazy that he beat him.

00:10:05.000 So, yeah, then he came to train with me because I told him before the fight with Hoost, he said, if you would fight me, what would you go for?

00:10:12.000 I go for body shots because of your stamina, and I kick your knees instead of your legs. 0.97

00:10:17.000 I kick your knees because you have to carry that weight all the time. 0.97

00:10:21.000 Hoost dropped him two or three times with the liver shot.

00:10:23.000 So after that, he came and said, I really want to train with you.

00:10:26.000 I said, okay, well, then I'm going to be in Japan anyway, so let's work out.

00:10:31.000 But...

00:10:32.000 Yeah, he was too busy doing media.

00:10:33.000 I said, don't do that.

00:10:34.000 He was such a superstar in Japan.

00:10:36.000 He had to capitalize on the amount of money he was able to make.

00:10:39.000 I don't think people in America realize how big, for those few years, Bob Sapp got in Japan.

00:10:45.000 You have no clue.

00:10:46.000 We went out to dinner with him and they have to close the restaurant and have to let him out at the back because you see one person in the front, two, four, boom, and there was a whole group.

00:10:56.000 Couldn't get out anymore.

00:10:57.000 Wow.

00:10:57.000 You couldn't go through the lobby of the hotel.

00:11:00.000 It's not like he can blend in.

00:11:02.000 No.

00:11:03.000 A 375 pound man.

00:11:05.000 He was huge.

00:11:07.000 This was in the Tokyo Post.

00:11:10.000 They had a picture of him on the cover coming out of like a massage place.

00:11:17.000 And you saw these little girls next to him and he's the mountain of a man stands there.

00:11:22.000 And all these little girls, they had that little black thing in front of their eyes, you know, that they do, so you don't know who that person is, which can still tell. 0.96

00:11:29.000 And he was upset.

00:11:30.000 He said, why didn't they put one in front of my eyes?

00:11:33.000 And I go, yeah.

00:11:35.000 Even if they blocked your whole ad off, people are going to go, uh, what do you think that is?

00:11:41.000 It was hilarious.

00:11:42.000 Well, when he was fighting in Pride, I mean, he was like a character from a movie.

00:11:48.000 He was like the boss in a video game.

00:11:50.000 You remember?

00:11:51.000 Oh, yeah.

00:11:53.000 It was hilarious.

00:11:54.000 He did all these dances, the Bob Sapp dance, and they got every show.

00:11:57.000 He was in every show.

00:11:58.000 And they just love him.

00:12:00.000 He's a freak.

00:12:01.000 And you know what? 0.95

00:12:01.000 The first time when he fought against Nogueira, I go, dude, we're going to hear from this guy. 0.95

00:12:06.000 He was doing really well against a seasoned guy like Nogueira.

00:12:10.000 Eventually, okay, he lost, but he just started.

00:12:13.000 I think if he would have kept focusing on the same training that he did at the time, It would have been a much tougher guy because he had a lot of talent, physically at least. 0.95

00:12:25.000 Well, he was just so fucking big too. 0.56

00:12:28.000 Maurice was training him at that time. 0.97

00:12:30.000 Maurice Smith was working with him.

00:12:32.000 They were working with his kickboxing and they were really trying to put some technique to all that muscle.

00:12:38.000 But you're talking about a guy who legitimately was 375 pounds with abs.

00:12:44.000 I mean he was like the greatest science project in the history of performance enhancing drugs.

00:12:51.000 Right?

00:12:51.000 Yeah.

00:12:52.000 I mean, has there ever been a project like that guy?

00:12:53.000 Yes, the blueprint. 0.97

00:12:55.000 He's like, this is as far as you can push it before you fucking explode. 0.98

00:12:59.000 Before your skin just explodes like a water balloon. 0.99

00:13:02.000 Oh, man.

00:13:03.000 He was so big.

00:13:04.000 In the past, you've seen it with these guys who use a lot.

00:13:07.000 They always are around the fighters.

00:13:09.000 They start to become purple.

00:13:11.000 And then suddenly you hear they die of a heart attack.

00:13:13.000 I wonder what happened there.

00:13:16.000 Well, he made it through, he survived, and then he started just quick tapping.

00:13:21.000 He started doing all these fights where he would get hit, he would go in hard, and if it didn't work out, he would just tap.

00:13:27.000 He fought a bunch of guys like that where he would start off the fight really well and then wind up tapping out.

00:13:33.000 And then he would fight again in like three weeks and do the same thing and just kept doing it, living off of the name that he had created while he was in Pride.

00:13:40.000 That's a very sad thing.

00:13:41.000 For me, that's almost the same as going on the street and back for money.

00:13:45.000 It really is to me.

00:13:47.000 You know, I think that is...

00:13:49.000 And he's such a good guy.

00:13:50.000 If you meet him, he's very, very nice, trying to help people.

00:13:53.000 Great guy.

00:13:54.000 But yeah, I don't like that.

00:13:57.000 It's the same with Kerr.

00:13:58.000 You know, I saw that special or a thing that they did on him that he sells cars now.

00:14:01.000 You know, it's hard to look at that.

00:14:04.000 Because especially he knew where he was in the past.

00:14:07.000 And that all is gone now.

00:14:10.000 You can be really high, but you can fall really low.

00:14:14.000 You have fighters saying that.

00:14:16.000 They said, it's so great to fight, but when you're high, you're high.

00:14:19.000 You know when you win, but when the lows are there, it's really low as well.

00:14:23.000 The difference is too much.

00:14:26.000 Actually, look what just came out with Ellen and Rhonda.

00:14:30.000 Yeah.

00:14:31.000 Right?

00:14:31.000 I mean, she broke down just thinking about it.

00:14:34.000 And I know it is a moment that they're there, so everybody would have that for a few seconds.

00:14:40.000 But yeah, it will get you done, a big loss like that.

00:14:43.000 I know that after the fight, like that night, she was just devastated.

00:14:48.000 But of course, I mean, that was a brutal, brutal knockout.

00:14:53.000 And it was a fight where nothing worked.

00:14:56.000 I mean, just nothing worked.

00:14:58.000 She went after Holly, and she tried to bully her, and Holly just, great footwork, countered her, and that kickboxing and her movement. 1.00

00:15:06.000 Holly's movement is the best in all of women's MMA. Her footwork and movement, she's so good at getting out of the way, at countering when you're coming in, and the style, the bulldog style of Ronda's, especially the way she fought that fight that night, just played right into Holly's hands. 0.78

00:15:22.000 That's it.

00:15:22.000 She knew exactly where she was going to be all the time, because she just went speed forward.

00:15:26.000 And that head kick. 1.00

00:15:27.000 Oof.

00:15:28.000 One of the things I said after that fight, I'm like, she should take a long time off after that fight, because that's the kind of head kick, that's the kind of KO that it takes a long time to recover from.

00:15:40.000 You might look fine, you might be able to talk, but mentally and also the brain itself, that kind of an impact, like a high kick like that, can really take a long time for everything to heal, for everything to normalize.

00:15:54.000 Well, Kenny Rice said, because I took my words back, because we're talking about Floyd Mayweather versus Rwanda.

00:16:01.000 I said, well, if it goes to the ground, you know, yeah, I truly believe.

00:16:04.000 But Kenny said, footwork will make sure it's not going to go to the ground.

00:16:08.000 I go, no, no, no, five rounds, five minutes, 25 minutes, a long time, you know, there will be a clinch one time.

00:16:14.000 But that's exactly what happened.

00:16:16.000 Yeah, there's a difference, first of all, in fighting in an octagon, which is a huge surface.

00:16:21.000 Like, if you look at a boxing ring, most people...

00:16:23.000 Oh, you can look them up.

00:16:24.000 ...much, much smaller space.

00:16:25.000 And also, I just don't think Rhonda would try to box a Floyd Mayweather.

00:16:30.000 I think she thought that she could stand with Holly Holm.

00:16:33.000 Yep.

00:16:33.000 And I think a lot of it is based on Holly's previous performances in the UFC, especially the Raquel Pennington fight.

00:16:38.000 Raquel Pennington, who's very tough, very durable, and Raquel, I always give her the nickname, the Ear Exploder, because she's had so many moments in the fight where you're like, You scream so loud that you blow people's eardrums out. 0.99

00:16:53.000 When she fought Ashley Evan Smith and Bulldog choked her, blood everywhere, and she choked her one second ago. 0.99

00:16:59.000 We were screaming at the end of that fight, like, she's out!

00:17:01.000 She's out!

00:17:02.000 And then she died.

00:17:03.000 But Pennington's so tough and fought conservatively against Holly Holm and almost won.

00:17:09.000 Like, that was a split decision, right?

00:17:11.000 So, you look at that fight and you go, oh boy, man, maybe Ronda could stand with her and just go after her the way she went after Betch Cohea, the way she went after Alexis Davis.

00:17:22.000 But, man, Holly was just on point.

00:17:26.000 I think it's game planning also.

00:17:27.000 You know, after that fight with Raquel, that was perfect for her.

00:17:31.000 Because that means, okay, stay away from the big bumps.

00:17:33.000 You know, and they know that Ronda, she's an athlete. 1.00

00:17:35.000 She can hit. 1.00

00:17:36.000 She hits you.

00:17:37.000 When I saw that...

00:17:39.000 What is the Open Workout in Brazil?

00:17:41.000 And I'm one of these guys, I have always things to say.

00:17:44.000 Oh, this is not good.

00:17:45.000 You should do that.

00:17:46.000 You can prove this.

00:17:47.000 You know, I'm very critical.

00:17:49.000 And I think to myself, am I too much?

00:17:51.000 What am I doing?

00:17:52.000 But at the moment, I saw her training there.

00:17:55.000 And this is not fighting.

00:17:57.000 And I know this doesn't translate to fighting.

00:17:59.000 But hitting the focus mitt and hitting the bag or all that stuff.

00:18:02.000 It looked nearly perfect to me.

00:18:04.000 The rotation of her upper body, the movement afterwards, very Tyson-like also.

00:18:10.000 I really thought, man, yeah, okay, I have nothing to say now.

00:18:13.000 This looks really good.

00:18:14.000 I felt the same way.

00:18:16.000 Yeah, I felt like her hand techniques were on point. 0.65

00:18:18.000 And then when she polished off Betch-Cohea in the first round, it sort of Well look, obviously she hits hard, her technique is improving, and she's an elite athlete.

00:18:28.000 You're talking about an Olympian, you're talking about a person that has that mindset to push forward and figures out a way to get better at everything she does, but so does Holly.

00:18:36.000 So does Holly.

00:18:38.000 And Holly has got way better kickboxing skills and way better... 1.00

00:18:42.000 She's got way more diversity in her striking game. 1.00

00:18:46.000 Whereas Ronda's just punching. 0.98

00:18:47.000 Knees to the body when she gets close to the clinch. 1.00

00:18:49.000 Knees to the body. 1.00

00:18:50.000 But on the outside it's just punching.

00:18:52.000 Whereas Holly... 1.00

00:18:52.000 Holly can head kick you and knock you the fuck out. 1.00

00:18:56.000 And she sets those kicks up with kicks to the body. 1.00

00:18:58.000 She'll throw kicks to the leg. 1.00

00:18:59.000 The Jackson camp, they all like that oblique kick to the thigh. 0.99

00:19:03.000 This is a dangerous kick.

00:19:04.000 Yeah, it's gonna be outlawed, and when somebody's gonna snap their knee, it's gonna be over.

00:19:08.000 Do you think so?

00:19:09.000 Because knee bars aren't outlawed, heel hooks aren't outlawed.

00:19:12.000 I know, but that's a different thing.

00:19:15.000 Once your leg is a little stretched and you get hit there, that's it.

00:19:19.000 A knee bar, or you have to be in Pogliaris, but anybody else would just put the knee bar on and give you time to tap.

00:19:27.000 You won't have that with an oblique kick.

00:19:29.000 Yeah, I agree.

00:19:30.000 But it's so effective right now when it's legal.

00:19:33.000 I understand why they're using it, because Jon Jones is so good at it.

00:19:37.000 Winkle Jon is one of the best triking coaches in the world.

00:19:40.000 He really is.

00:19:41.000 He's so good and so underappreciated because he's such a humble guy.

00:19:46.000 He's not talking a lot.

00:19:47.000 He's not bragging.

00:19:48.000 He's a very down-to-earth, normal, humble guy.

00:19:51.000 But the results that that guy's been able to...

00:19:54.000 I mean, Holly's probably one of his best students, but of course, John Jones as well.

00:19:57.000 John Jones.

00:19:58.000 He's not a freak.

00:20:00.000 He can change the world.

00:20:02.000 If he's now on the straight and narrow and he's just fighting, I see this guy, nobody's gonna beat this guy.

00:20:10.000 It's gonna be hard, that's for sure, but the worry about John is that John's gonna fuck himself up because recently he just got caught driving with no license and no insurance and no registration.

00:20:22.000 You know, he lost his license. 0.90

00:20:24.000 He's got millions of dollars. 1.00

00:20:25.000 Get a fucking driver, man. 1.00

00:20:26.000 Get a driver. 1.00

00:20:27.000 Yeah, but look at Tiger Woods, what happened to him, because when all the crap happened with him, mentally he didn't come back from that.

00:20:34.000 And I understand this is golf, you know, but the same as fighting.

00:20:36.000 It's a mind game.

00:20:38.000 It's really a mind game.

00:20:39.000 So can he overstep that?

00:20:40.000 I think he can, because Jones is young.

00:20:43.000 And he knows how good he is.

00:20:45.000 But if I were him, I would say five, four, five more years.

00:20:48.000 Stop.

00:20:49.000 You're going down in history.

00:20:50.000 Like a thousand years from now, they will still talk about you if you do it correctly.

00:20:54.000 Or, you know, he sidetracks and something bad is going to happen to him.

00:20:57.000 Let's not hope.

00:20:58.000 Yeah, I hope he pulls it together.

00:20:59.000 He's a great guy.

00:21:00.000 I really like John as a person. 0.88

00:21:02.000 I mean, he has his flaws like most people, and he's young, and the amount of pressure that he's on to be the youngest ever UFC champion, to have this spectacular career so early in life, the only loss he had was a disqualification that was a bullshit disqualification. 0.95

00:21:17.000 I mean, this stupid rule of 12 to 6 elbows, they gotta get rid of that rule. 1.00

00:21:22.000 It's so dumb. 0.99

00:21:23.000 If we don't know what I'm talking about, folks, in the UFC, there's a rule, and it's a crazy rule, that you can't strike someone with an elbow from 12 p.m. 0.98

00:21:32.000 to 6 on a clock dial, like going straight down.

00:21:35.000 And the only reason why you can't do it is because when they were setting up the athletic commissions, the athletic commissions had seen those karate demonstrations on TV where a guy would break a brick with his elbow, and they said, well, you can't do that.

00:21:46.000 That's got to be illegal, because someone could die.

00:21:48.000 And this is what Big John McCarthy told me, that he had to talk to these people, and he's like...

00:21:53.000 Okay.

00:21:53.000 Alright, then that one's illegal.

00:21:55.000 So that's the only reason why that's still illegal.

00:21:57.000 But the great thing is, if you're on your back, you're allowed to do it.

00:22:00.000 Yes, because it's from 6 to 12. It's the dumbest thing ever. 1.00

00:22:06.000 It's so stupid. 1.00

00:22:07.000 It's one of the dumbest rules that's still in place. 1.00

00:22:09.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:22:10.000 Oh well.

00:22:11.000 We had a guy in Holland, Hippolyte.

00:22:14.000 Hippolyte and Witt.

00:22:15.000 Orlando Witt.

00:22:16.000 These two guys, when they fought each other, they would sell out all the time.

00:22:21.000 I saw three fights of them live because these guys were crazy.

00:22:24.000 Full tie rules.

00:22:26.000 And Orlando Witt and Hippolyte.

00:22:27.000 Both of them, they would, in the clinch, jump all the way up and then come down with the elbows to the collarbones, to the head.

00:22:33.000 They would go full blast.

00:22:34.000 Orlando Wheat who fought in the UFC. I think UFC 2?

00:22:38.000 Was it 2 he fought in?

00:22:39.000 Yeah, against Remco Pardul.

00:22:42.000 Remco got him in a scarf hole and pounded him out with elbows.

00:22:45.000 With illegal elbows now.

00:22:46.000 It is illegal.

00:22:48.000 That's so true, right?

00:22:49.000 Well, it might have been legal because it was kind of coming from 12 around the side.

00:22:54.000 Maybe it was like 12 to 7 or something like that.

00:22:57.000 Yeah, 11. 11 to 5 or 1 to 7. It's up to you what you want to call them.

00:23:03.000 It's so dumb. 1.00

00:23:04.000 It's so dumb. 0.99

00:23:05.000 You know, I have a problem with a few rules of the UFC, but that's the number one. 0.99

00:23:09.000 That's the number one.

00:23:10.000 I have also a problem with putting the hand on the ground to stop knees to the head.

00:23:14.000 I always go, if you have somebody, lift them up.

00:23:16.000 Yeah.

00:23:18.000 I feel like to a downed opponent, maybe that's a problem when they're up against the cage because you can't get your head out of the way.

00:23:25.000 In Pride, one of the crazy things about Pride, which I think to this day, and one of the reasons why I was so excited to have Mauro here too, you guys called the glory days.

00:23:34.000 Some of the wildest fights in the history of the sport where you have stomps, soccer kicks, everything.

00:23:41.000 But No elbows.

00:23:42.000 No elbows.

00:23:43.000 No elbows to the ground.

00:23:44.000 Yeah.

00:23:44.000 No, I remember fights that they literally have Vanderlei Silva in the corner or Ninja or Shogun, you know, and they would hold the ropes and then just stomp somebody.

00:23:55.000 Skulling, pretty much.

00:23:57.000 It's scary.

00:23:58.000 I think that shouldn't...

00:24:00.000 That shouldn't be legal.

00:24:02.000 It's like what happened in the past with Roger Huerta, you know, at 1FC, it's now 1 championship.

00:24:08.000 When you look at that fight, you go, that was the referee really messed up on that one.

00:24:12.000 He literally dropped on all fours because he was exhausted, and then he got penalty kicked in the face.

00:24:18.000 That could have been really bad.

00:24:20.000 Well, I think it was really bad.

00:24:21.000 I mean, I don't know how much he recovered from that.

00:24:23.000 I mean, that was a devastating knockout.

00:24:25.000 And it was also Roger fighting at 170, which is not really his weight class.

00:24:29.000 It really should be a 155. And he fought a big...

00:24:33.000 Who was the Brazilian guy that he fought?

00:24:34.000 I don't remember.

00:24:35.000 I can't remember his name, but that guy's a big guy, and he had Roger Hurt, and then that soccer, they have like a rule at 1FC, I don't know if they still have it, where they'll say like, open, like where you're allowed to do a stomp or a kick to the downed opponent.

00:24:51.000 Well, this was a closed.

00:24:54.000 They should have said.

00:24:55.000 There's a guy's name, Zorro Babo Moria.

00:25:00.000 Zorro Babo.

00:25:01.000 It was a devastating, devastating soccer kick.

00:25:03.000 He said, I did not want to throw the kick.

00:25:05.000 Wow.

00:25:06.000 Well, then don't.

00:25:07.000 Why would you do it?

00:25:08.000 You can do it to the body, which will be very dangerous at that moment as well, because you're breathing.

00:25:14.000 You're going to crack some ribs, so it could be very dangerous as well.

00:25:17.000 But you can recover from the cracked ribs a lot better than you can recover from that.

00:25:20.000 Step away.

00:25:21.000 There's no need for that.

00:25:22.000 I never had that, you know?

00:25:24.000 It means being aware in the cage and know what you're doing.

00:25:27.000 You know, if I see a guy's out, guy's out.

00:25:29.000 I'm not going to hit him extra.

00:25:31.000 Yeah, well, good for you, man.

00:25:34.000 There's a lot of debate about the old rules of pride versus the rules of the UFC, and that was one of the things that happened when Krokop started fighting in the UFC and then fought in a cage for the first time against Gonzaga.

00:25:45.000 Well, you know, he fought Eddie Sanchez first, won that fight, but it's not on his level.

00:25:50.000 It was not on his level.

00:25:52.000 And then he fought Gonzaga, and Gonzaga took him down, held him up against the cage, elbowed the shit out of him, and then stood him up and high-kicked him.

00:25:59.000 But he was saying, like, the elbows confused him, like he wasn't used to that, and he also wasn't used to the cage being trapped, whereas the pride ring, you could move around.

00:26:08.000 Like, the ropes were there, you could get under the ropes, you could...

00:26:11.000 You know, you never were pinned.

00:26:12.000 But you can lock somebody up also in a corner, which you cannot do in a cage.

00:26:17.000 When I stepped for the first time in the cage, I was like, oh dude, this is awesome.

00:26:23.000 They can never lock me up.

00:26:24.000 This is the biggest thing I've ever seen.

00:26:27.000 Yeah.

00:26:29.000 Yeah, I think Gonzaga, that fight, and I always come back to this, I thought it was so smart what he was doing.

00:26:34.000 He was constantly throwing a right hand.

00:26:37.000 And it didn't even come close to his face like this.

00:26:39.000 And I'm constantly thinking, why is he doing that?

00:26:43.000 And then it really, you know, I got, oh, he's shutting his kick down.

00:26:47.000 Because Krokop, he might think, if I just throw a right straight, like every 20 seconds in front of your face, he's going to think, if I throw my left at the moment he throws that right straight, he's going to knock me out.

00:26:58.000 So he shut his whole game down and then he was moving to the left and that was the blueprint to Krokop because after that everybody started doing it.

00:27:07.000 Yeah, and it's interesting how Krokop got his revenge in the rematch in a big way with elbows on the ground.

00:27:12.000 It was kind of ironic.

00:27:15.000 One of the things that Krokop was saying before that fight is that he didn't particularly like grappling and he didn't particularly like elbows on the ground.

00:27:22.000 Meanwhile, that's what won him the fight.

00:27:24.000 The second fight he won by being on top and by the elbows that a real talented striker can throw from the guard.

00:27:31.000 The difference in those elbows is just unbelievably devastating.

00:27:35.000 We saw that in the Krokop fight.

00:27:37.000 Yeah.

00:27:37.000 No, he did a really good job with that.

00:27:39.000 I had him one time, also, somebody armbarred me, and I got out.

00:27:42.000 And when I fought him the second time, I didn't want to knock him out.

00:27:47.000 I wanted to armbar him first.

00:27:49.000 And I remembered that.

00:27:50.000 Armbar him, but it was with the rope escapes there.

00:27:52.000 I had him, and then he rope escapes, and I told him, I said...

00:27:55.000 Oh, so this is Pancras.

00:27:56.000 This is Pancras.

00:27:56.000 I said, now you got it back.

00:27:58.000 And then later on, I heel hooked him, actually.

00:28:01.000 Well, Pancras had crazy rules.

00:28:03.000 And you were the first guy to figure those rules out.

00:28:06.000 And I loved watching you fight back then because it was open hand striking with the hands, but kicks. 0.96

00:28:12.000 So, like, you were the first guy that ever saw a fight in that, first of all, that kick so fucking hard.

00:28:17.000 You could see when you would slam these guys with these kicks, they'd be like, oh, this is a completely different experience. 0.86

00:28:23.000 But also, you weren't slapping. 0.98

00:28:25.000 How the fuck do you pull your hand back so far? 0.98

00:28:28.000 Yeah, I got very limber hands hitting with the bone. 0.99

00:28:30.000 Yeah, you were pulling your hand way back and throwing straight punches and hooks and uppercuts like when you fought Funaki.

00:28:37.000 You were throwing uppercut palm strikes like a punch, like with the same motion.

00:28:43.000 Nobody does this still.

00:28:44.000 Look, if I'm in the guard and I just lift my hand like this, see?

00:28:50.000 Yeah.

00:28:51.000 Just slide over his chest. 0.97

00:28:52.000 In the face. 0.93

00:28:53.000 Why is nobody doing this?

00:28:54.000 Why is nobody doing this?

00:28:55.000 Just leave it here. 0.96

00:28:56.000 Just hit him a little bit. 0.92

00:28:57.000 Look away. 0.99

00:28:58.000 Because most of the time when you look away, they think, and then bonk, just hit him in the face. 0.81

00:29:02.000 Yeah, like flat hand on the center of the chest and just shove it up. 0.92

00:29:05.000 Shove it over the chest.

00:29:07.000 Yeah.

00:29:07.000 Yeah, that does make sense.

00:29:08.000 That does make sense.

00:29:09.000 But wouldn't that work with a punch as well?

00:29:11.000 Yeah, but you have more space with a palm.

00:29:14.000 Right.

00:29:15.000 Like on this distance, this is much shorter than this.

00:29:19.000 This is like an extra 15%, which will make a lot of difference on that distance.

00:29:23.000 That's a very good point.

00:29:24.000 Like it's another five or six inches at least.

00:29:27.000 That's why I never understood nobody's throwing palm strikes now.

00:29:32.000 Left hook, right straight combination, right?

00:29:33.000 In boxing.

00:29:34.000 Right. 0.98

00:29:34.000 It's a dumb combination if you really think about it. 0.98

00:29:36.000 If it's a short left hook, I'm way too close for my straight punch. 0.98

00:29:39.000 It has no power.

00:29:40.000 I can't stretch my arm.

00:29:41.000 But if I do a palm strike...

00:29:44.000 And then a straight punch. 0.99

00:29:45.000 Now I got space for my straight punch. 1.00

00:29:47.000 It's much harder.

00:29:48.000 So why is nobody doing that?

00:29:50.000 Now I do clotheslines.

00:29:52.000 I posted a thing on Facebook like a year ago.

00:29:55.000 When I hit a bag with a clothesline, I don't think people can imitate my weight with a kick like that.

00:30:01.000 They can kick, and then I say, okay, now I show a clothesline.

00:30:04.000 You see the bag folding around my whole arm.

00:30:06.000 It's the craziest thing.

00:30:07.000 You can try to block whatever you want.

00:30:10.000 If I clothesline you, if you stand still, it goes straight through everything.

00:30:12.000 I guarantee you, it'll knock you out.

00:30:14.000 Why is that?

00:30:14.000 Why is a clothesline so powerful?

00:30:16.000 It is so powerful because you can really lock it up.

00:30:18.000 Don't stretch your arm, because if you miss time and you hit your, you're going to hyperextend.

00:30:23.000 But you can drag your whole body weight in there because you lock it up.

00:30:27.000 And your legs are planted on the ground.

00:30:29.000 Oh, yeah.

00:30:30.000 So you're getting all that hip torque in there.

00:30:32.000 It is such a powerful strike, and also with the clinch, even when they stand like this, if I do this, it loops around the defense and hits the back of the head, still the legal part, because it's outside the Mohawk. 1.00

00:30:45.000 Well, even the back of the head standing never seems to get, like in boxing, they get penalized for punching the back of the head, like people say no rabbit punches, but when you think about a head kick, A lot of head kicks, especially the ones that go over the shoulder, they're the back of the head.

00:30:58.000 And it's legal.

00:30:59.000 And that's why they're effective.

00:31:00.000 And that's why it was so effective with me, with Pancras, I hit behind the ear. 1.00

00:31:06.000 If you look at Mike Tyson's fights, you know, I don't know how he did it, but he did it.

00:31:10.000 He was always the shorter guy, but if you see him hooking somebody, he hits almost the back of the head.

00:31:15.000 He's got very short hooks.

00:31:17.000 Now the body, it's ready for impact from the front and from the side because you're used to it.

00:31:21.000 Well, if you can see the punch coming.

00:31:23.000 The behind, I always tell people, just do with the palm, just do this to the back of your head and see what happens.

00:31:28.000 Like just me doing this, it's already going...

00:31:30.000 You're not ready for that.

00:31:32.000 So you can only imagine if you go... 0.77

00:31:35.000 Hit as hard as you can behind the ear.

00:31:38.000 It's a sweet punch.

00:31:40.000 I can't understand nobody's doing it.

00:31:42.000 It drives me nuts.

00:31:43.000 Is the back of the head that much more dangerous?

00:31:44.000 Oh, do this!

00:31:46.000 Do this.

00:31:46.000 But I mean, is it that much more dangerous?

00:31:47.000 Should it be outlawed?

00:31:49.000 No, on the side.

00:31:49.000 Just behind the ear.

00:31:50.000 Just do that.

00:31:51.000 Oh, yeah.

00:31:52.000 Right?

00:31:52.000 You got...

00:31:53.000 Yeah.

00:31:56.000 Remember when Henzo fought in world combat against that judo guy?

00:32:01.000 I forget his name.

00:32:02.000 Oh, the Dutch guy. 1.00

00:32:03.000 Yeah.

00:32:04.000 He got his back.

00:32:06.000 Spikers. 0.94

00:32:07.000 Ben Spikers.

00:32:07.000 I tried with him also.

00:32:09.000 He got his back and just... 0.96

00:32:10.000 If you can elbow the back of the head, rear naked chokes are out the window. 0.99

00:32:14.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.98

00:32:14.000 Because everybody's just going to bang, bang, bang to the back of the head. 0.98

00:32:18.000 And it's almost more effective than a rear naked choke because guys are just going to try to cover up.

00:32:23.000 Yeah, and eventually, one will slip through.

00:32:26.000 It's interesting to me that there's some really effective martial arts techniques that are outlawed, and that's one of them.

00:32:32.000 I mean, you can't hit that spot.

00:32:35.000 It's kind of strange because in a self-defense situation or in actual martial arts, if you think about what is the most effective technique to use, knees to the ground are very effective to head on a down opponent, elbows to the back of the head are very effective.

00:32:49.000 But are they that much more dangerous?

00:32:50.000 I mean, should they be outlawed?

00:32:52.000 Oh, here's the video.

00:32:53.000 Yeah, Henzo.

00:32:54.000 Oh, look at this.

00:32:55.000 Boom! 0.99

00:32:56.000 Boom! 0.99

00:32:56.000 I mean, no need to choke, but he choked him anyway, I think. 0.99

00:33:00.000 Yeah, and now he's gonna step on his head, right?

00:33:02.000 Yeah, he smashed him. 0.58

00:33:03.000 He smashed that dude.

00:33:04.000 Well, that guy, here's the deal. 0.99

00:33:06.000 Henzo, who's a very nice guy, by the way, this fucking guy was calling Henzo all throughout the night and fucking with him. 0.99

00:33:13.000 Look at him, he stepped on his head as he walked off of him. 0.99

00:33:15.000 Yeah, he's out cold. 0.99

00:33:17.000 Henzo was in his hotel room, and this guy kept calling him and fucking with him. 0.90

00:33:21.000 He just didn't want him to have any sleep, so he just kept ringing his phone, and Henzo was like, oh, okay. 1.00

00:33:26.000 Just wait, motherfucker. 0.99

00:33:28.000 It's so funny when you see a guy like Henzo, and he's always smiling, you know? 1.00

00:33:33.000 Don't do it.

00:33:35.000 What's wrong with people?

00:33:36.000 He's really nice.

00:33:37.000 He smiles all the time.

00:33:39.000 Yeah, but he does the same thing when he kicks you in the bowl. 0.97

00:33:42.000 You know?

00:33:43.000 I mean, watch out! 0.97

00:33:45.000 Did you ever see that Twitter sequence that Henzo put online where he beat the shit out of these muggers in New York City? 0.95

00:33:51.000 Yeah.

00:33:51.000 These guys in New York City tried to mug Henzo Gracie, not knowing who he was.

00:33:56.000 So Henzo not only beat the fuck out of them, he followed them and kept beating the fuck out of them and was making all these pushes. 0.96

00:34:02.000 Thank you, Mayor Bloomberg, for making so safe New York City so I don't have to worry about guns. 0.98

00:34:08.000 This, to me, is a pleasure.

00:34:10.000 No, he already starts with...

00:34:12.000 There's two guys following me.

00:34:14.000 They probably want to rob me or something.

00:34:17.000 And then he makes it into a game.

00:34:19.000 He's like, oh yeah!

00:34:20.000 This is really happening!

00:34:21.000 I'm so excited! 0.98

00:34:22.000 What a huge fuck-up on their part. 0.88

00:34:26.000 Well, he had one... 0.76

00:34:27.000 We were...

00:34:29.000 Kenny Rice and I, we were somewhere.

00:34:31.000 This is not that long ago.

00:34:33.000 And he was also, he was walking on the street, and two guys, same thing.

00:34:37.000 He came to tell the story, and he dropped the biggest guy, he said, I just picked the biggest guy, knocked him out.

00:34:43.000 And while he kept walking, the police came, they stopped, is there any trouble?

00:34:47.000 And he looks at the guys, and the guys go, no, no, there's no any trouble. 0.97

00:34:50.000 And he just got fucking and said, you just picked the wrong guy. 0.96

00:34:53.000 That's what he told them. 1.00

00:34:54.000 They fucked up. 1.00

00:34:55.000 You did, yeah. 0.99

00:34:55.000 Yeah, well, he looks so friendly and nice. 0.99

00:34:58.000 I mean, when he's got his game face on, he looks like a killer.

00:35:02.000 But most of the time, Henzo's smiling.

00:35:04.000 He's like one of the smiliest, happiest guys you're ever going to run into.

00:35:07.000 And look at him there.

00:35:08.000 Big smile.

00:35:09.000 Is that an IFL ring?

00:35:10.000 It's an IFL ring, but this is the paperweight.

00:35:14.000 This is not a fake one.

00:35:15.000 It's a paperweight that they gave to us.

00:35:17.000 Yeah.

00:35:18.000 Enzo couldn't be a nicer guy.

00:35:20.000 Couldn't be a nicer guy.

00:35:21.000 And it's so nice to see how well he's done with his school, too.

00:35:24.000 He has one of the biggest jujitsu schools in the world.

00:35:27.000 And in Manhattan, where it's so hard to be successful because it's so expensive, real estate.

00:35:33.000 I think the IFL had a big part in that because they did that thing on 20-20 for him, or 15 minutes, one of the two, and after that it just exploded.

00:35:43.000 Because once you get into the world of Enzo, you know, about what kind of person he is, you know, everybody likes him.

00:35:48.000 You know, even the guys like him.

00:35:50.000 So the people at home, they saw that guy and then they saw the technique and the, you know, talent.

00:35:54.000 Yeah, put hand in hand together and boom.

00:35:56.000 Anthony Bourdain trains there also as well.

00:35:58.000 His wife trains there.

00:35:59.000 Everybody trains there.

00:35:59.000 Yeah.

00:36:00.000 Well, he's done an amazing job of putting together a fantastic gym in New York City with Gary Tonin, Eddie Cummings.

00:36:07.000 So he's got these guys that are...

00:36:09.000 And John Donaher is a big part of that as well.

00:36:11.000 He's got these guys that are training there that are so successful in these jiu-jitsu competitions.

00:36:15.000 So it's not just the legacy of being one of the Gracies and being one of the most famous jiu-jitsu practitioners ever, but it's also on top of that, it's the product. 1.00

00:36:24.000 Like the The results they've gotten in competition.

00:36:26.000 Yeah, he's very smart.

00:36:27.000 You know, he's got a really good staff as well teaching there, which is a very important thing because most of the time guys who are really good, they want to control it too much, you know, and then it goes down.

00:36:38.000 He did a great job just getting the right guys for the job.

00:36:41.000 Well, it's also, you see extreme loyalty from the people that train there because they love Henzo so much.

00:36:46.000 There's like a real bond with Henzo Gracie.

00:36:49.000 Of course, Matt Serra, who came from that lineage, and then a lot of his guys as well.

00:36:53.000 Just can't say enough good things about Henzo.

00:36:56.000 Yeah, he's funny, Matt.

00:36:58.000 He's hilarious.

00:36:59.000 The first time looking for a fight.

00:37:03.000 Yeah, have you seen that show?

00:37:04.000 The Dana White show?

00:37:05.000 You're a boat model.

00:37:07.000 You know, and Dana sits there, and then he gets all uncomfortable about sitting a certain way.

00:37:13.000 It's so funny.

00:37:14.000 If you haven't seen it, there's a show called Looking for a Fight, and it's Dana White, Matt Serra, and Nick the Tooth.

00:37:19.000 And what they do is they go to small MMA shows all over the world, and they see fights and find talent.

00:37:27.000 And that's where they find that kid, Mickey Gall.

00:37:29.000 Not good.

00:37:29.000 Sage Northcutt as well, and then the guy who they were setting up to fight...

00:37:34.000 Punk.

00:37:34.000 Yeah, CM Punk, which is, I don't know what's going to happen with that guy.

00:37:37.000 I don't understand this whole thing.

00:37:39.000 He's got a lot of injuries.

00:37:40.000 Well, I also think it's ridiculous for him to fight in the UFC. I think he should fight in a small organization.

00:37:46.000 Take a fight in a small organization, build yourself up.

00:37:49.000 I have always said that that's what should have happened with Brock Lesnar.

00:37:52.000 Mm-hmm.

00:37:53.000 I mean, if you look at Brock Lesnar as an athlete, I always said, if you took Brock Lesnar and got him to a guy like Matt Hume or Farah Sahabi and said, okay, make this guy a champ, you're dealing with a freak athlete.

00:38:05.000 Unreal.

00:38:06.000 Just train him correctly, build him up slow, get him through the ring, but he wanted to fight right away in the UFC. One fight in K1, right to the UFC, fought in that K1 LA show, and then right to the UFC. Yeah, it's a shame.

00:38:19.000 But it's his name.

00:38:21.000 Of course, they understand that once he fights for a pay-per-view, there's going to be a lot of people.

00:38:26.000 He's going to have a gun at a pay-per-view.

00:38:28.000 But that is short.

00:38:30.000 It's always short, like the money.

00:38:32.000 Later in your career, you regret all these things.

00:38:34.000 I'm happy I never did that.

00:38:36.000 Yeah, I feel like...

00:38:37.000 Make mistakes.

00:38:38.000 Well, I feel like he definitely had massive potential.

00:38:42.000 I mean, he beat Randy Couture.

00:38:45.000 I mean, that's just unbelievable. 0.94

00:38:47.000 I mean, he beat the shit out of Frank Mir. 0.50

00:38:50.000 I mean, he beat Shane Carwin in a fight.

00:38:52.000 We really had to show his resilience. 0.98

00:38:54.000 Got the fuck beat out of him in the first round. 0.98

00:38:55.000 Came back, submitted him in the second round. 0.97

00:38:57.000 So we had some legit wins against legit guys, but just wasn't ready for guys like Kane or especially Alistair.

00:39:05.000 That was a bad fight.

00:39:05.000 Yeah, that was a bad fight.

00:39:07.000 Well, if he could have taken it to the ground, it would have been different.

00:39:09.000 Against Couture, that was the first time that I thought, oh, hopefully now more people start doing it.

00:39:14.000 That was that crazy punch.

00:39:15.000 And with him it was because he was not super technical yet in striking, but he hit an overhand and it hit with this part of the hand with the fist.

00:39:24.000 The back of the head and couture went down.

00:39:27.000 Then when Junior Dos Santos knocked out came Velasquez like that.

00:39:30.000 I go, okay, we got it.

00:39:32.000 People finally, now they start getting it to it.

00:39:35.000 And then Velasquez did the same thing to Junior coming back.

00:39:38.000 So I figured, oh, they looked at it.

00:39:39.000 So now we're going to see this more often, but...

00:39:42.000 That was pretty much it.

00:39:43.000 You see it here and there one time, but it's not a real overhand.

00:39:46.000 Or they throw a real overhand, not with the side that hits the back of the head again, what we just talked about.

00:39:51.000 Yeah, almost like a ridge hand strike.

00:39:53.000 It's almost like a ridge hand, yep.

00:39:55.000 Well, you remember when Chuck Liddell used to throw that crate?

00:39:57.000 You got a Chuck Liddell sweatshirt on now.

00:39:59.000 There's new Roots of Fight ones, right?

00:40:00.000 Yeah.

00:40:01.000 I got a Boss Wooten t-shirt at home.

00:40:02.000 Oh, you got it!

00:40:03.000 I just got one!

00:40:05.000 But Chuck Liddell used to throw it over the top of his head.

00:40:08.000 He would throw this crazy one, and that's how he hit Alistair when they fought in Pride.

00:40:13.000 He threw it, not circular at all, but like a 12-6 punch.

00:40:18.000 You know, it's a complete different punch.

00:40:21.000 That's what I tell people.

00:40:23.000 How do I say?

00:40:24.000 I always really liked the technique from Chuck.

00:40:27.000 He's also wide open, which gives him almost power equal left and right, just like Tyson.

00:40:33.000 I like to fight like that as well.

00:40:35.000 And he can hit really, really hard.

00:40:37.000 And he's not afraid about opening up.

00:40:39.000 Sometimes, though, with him...

00:40:41.000 If he gets too excited, instead of stepping back, he goes in for the kill and that got him in trouble later in his career because if he would simply step back and come back.

00:40:50.000 But that's why every person, every guy, everybody likes Chuck Liddell.

00:40:54.000 You don't look at Chuck Liddell and say, oh, he lost a couple of times by knockout.

00:40:59.000 Nobody will say that.

00:41:00.000 He did not lose one fan because he's always there to fight.

00:41:03.000 That's why I really like Chuck.

00:41:05.000 Yeah, he had one of the most exciting attitudes ever in fighting.

00:41:09.000 He was always do or die.

00:41:12.000 And early in his career, he had an incredible chin.

00:41:15.000 I mean, his chin was just iron.

00:41:16.000 You ever see the Pele fight when they fought in Vale Tudo in Brazil?

00:41:19.000 Oh, no, no.

00:41:20.000 I heard about it, though.

00:41:21.000 Jesus Christ! 0.98

00:41:21.000 Pele was crazy, too. 0.98

00:41:22.000 Crazy fight. 0.79

00:41:23.000 And that was a fight where they had a net under the bottom rope. 1.00

00:41:27.000 They fought in a ring, but it was modified for Valle Tudo where the bottom rope from the bottom to the floor of the ring was a net.

00:41:35.000 So he couldn't get out.

00:41:36.000 He couldn't slide out.

00:41:37.000 Yeah, and they're trapped.

00:41:38.000 Bare knuckle. 0.84

00:41:39.000 And Chuck's got him trapped in there and just beaten the fuck out of him. 0.95

00:41:42.000 Like, smooshed up there.

00:41:43.000 And this was back when, you know, Chuck was known for his striking, but he was a very good wrestler.

00:41:49.000 Yeah.

00:41:49.000 Before that.

00:41:50.000 Yeah, that's why he stopped every day now. 0.99

00:41:52.000 You know, that was one of the things that, um, what the fuck was his name?

00:41:55.000 The guy who was the matchmaker for the UFC. John Peretti. 0.94

00:41:58.000 John Peretti.

00:41:58.000 John Peretti told Chuck right before he fought his first fight in the UFC. He said, if you take this guy down, you'll never fight for us again.

00:42:06.000 Oh, wow.

00:42:06.000 That's like, he said it to Chuck right before he fought.

00:42:09.000 They didn't want him to try to wrestle fuck his way. 0.99

00:42:11.000 So Chuck was like, oh, Jesus. 0.99

00:42:13.000 All right.

00:42:14.000 Let him out! 1.00

00:42:15.000 That's the debut of Chuck Liddell, you know?

00:42:18.000 Who knew?

00:42:19.000 You know, hey, I got great hand power.

00:42:21.000 Well, you know, Hackleman, you know, his trainer is also a legend, you know, and a great guy and a real wild man, too.

00:42:28.000 They were a perfect combination, you know, Hackleman and Chuck.

00:42:32.000 You know, with Chuck's early days, you know, you watch some of those fights, like the Babalu fight. 0.99

00:42:36.000 I mean, he was just a fucking destroyer. 0.99

00:42:38.000 That's the kick, right? 1.00

00:42:38.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:42:39.000 That was the second time they fought, right?

00:42:42.000 Wasn't it?

00:42:42.000 I don't know.

00:42:43.000 If we have Mauro here, he'll tell the dates, everything.

00:42:48.000 Well, when Mauro gets better, we'll definitely have him back here.

00:42:50.000 I would love to talk to him.

00:42:52.000 I love Mauro.

00:42:52.000 He's such a great guy.

00:42:53.000 He really is.

00:42:54.000 We have some crazy stories in Japan also because everything with us is fun.

00:42:59.000 We would come home, or we would come home, we would breakfast in Japan.

00:43:03.000 You know, you wake up early because of the jet lag.

00:43:06.000 We're there at 5.30 when the breakfast place opens.

00:43:09.000 We sit down and our table, we start with two.

00:43:12.000 It would be at the end 25 guys out there.

00:43:14.000 Everybody jumps to the table because it's Comedy Central.

00:43:17.000 All morning long.

00:43:18.000 All the fighters, you know, everybody's laughing.

00:43:20.000 Everybody's having a good time.

00:43:21.000 Well, you guys did a lot of comedy sketches, too.

00:43:24.000 There was like a lot of fun with Pride in those early days.

00:43:27.000 In the early days, yeah.

00:43:28.000 This was just...

00:43:29.000 That was with the Quadros.

00:43:31.000 Stephen Quadros, yeah.

00:43:32.000 They allowed us to do this.

00:43:33.000 And it all happened because I forgot my suit.

00:43:36.000 I didn't know that as a commentator, you needed to wear a suit.

00:43:40.000 So they thought I was messing with them.

00:43:43.000 And I go, no, I really didn't bring a suit.

00:43:44.000 Nobody told me to bring a suit.

00:43:45.000 So I was in my shorts, flip-flops, and I had this Hawaiian shirt on.

00:43:49.000 And that was the first one that I'm leaning back...

00:43:53.000 And there's a bunch of these geishas, they're fanning me down, they're feeding me grapes, and I'm doing, I'm talking to Steven, who is in the event, you know, we're going back and forth, and they say, hey man, we really like that, maybe we should keep doing this. 1.00

00:44:06.000 And then we start coming up at this crazy opening.

00:44:08.000 Well, a lot of what you were doing, it was, I don't even know if I was working for the UFC back then, but guys from Jiu Jitsu, we would all get together.

00:44:15.000 We'd either go over to my friend John's house, or we'd go over to my house, and we'd get together with a bunch of guys, and we would watch Pride.

00:44:21.000 Yep.

00:44:22.000 And oh, those were the days, man.

00:44:23.000 Those were the days, man.

00:44:24.000 Those were the days, because it was the early days of MMA. And, you know, we had had, in the 90s, you'd have the UFC, which was kind of struggling at the time, because they were kicked off a cable.

00:44:34.000 And the only way you could get it was on DirecTV.

00:44:37.000 This was pre-Zufa. 0.95

00:44:38.000 It was before Zufa bought it.

00:44:40.000 But that's like right around the time where Pride started to take off, with the first Hickson fight.

00:44:46.000 Hickson, a lot of people don't know.

00:44:47.000 Hickson started off Pride.

00:44:49.000 Yep.

00:44:49.000 Hickson was in Pride 1. Yeah, Takata.

00:44:52.000 Yeah.

00:44:52.000 That was the first fight.

00:44:53.000 Yeah.

00:44:54.000 And then Sakuraba put him on the map by beating the Gracies. 1.00

00:44:57.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:44:57.000 That's when it became big.

00:44:58.000 That's why I always say, you know, for Risen, for that new organism, Risen, they need a Sakuraba-like guy.

00:45:07.000 They need a Japanese guy.

00:45:08.000 They can do a few shows like this with a feather on me and ankle and now Vanderlei Silva coming back.

00:45:13.000 They can do a few shows, but eventually people want to root for their own.

00:45:16.000 You know, they need a Japanese guy.

00:45:18.000 Like Satake, you remember, in K1. Mm-hmm. 0.95

00:45:21.000 I think he won the first one, but that was before all the foreigners came. 1.00

00:45:25.000 That was an animal.

00:45:29.000 That guy also.

00:45:30.000 Bronco knocked out Hoost, remember that? 1.00

00:45:32.000 That guy could fucking punch. 0.99

00:45:34.000 I saw him fight in the Jaap Ederhall in Holland. 1.00

00:45:37.000 That was the most famous place.

00:45:39.000 Every fight was there, always.

00:45:41.000 That was one night we had...

00:45:44.000 Four guys from Thailand were there, and they were fighting all guys from Majira Gym, like Rob Kamen, Miloel Goebly.

00:45:50.000 I mean, all the great guys, all the great strikers from Meng Ho.

00:45:53.000 And it were all title fights, and they were broadcast live to Thailand.

00:45:58.000 Wow!

00:45:58.000 They all got knocked out.

00:46:00.000 Wow!

00:46:00.000 Yeah, that never happened again after that.

00:46:02.000 They destroyed him.

00:46:04.000 It was awesome.

00:46:04.000 What a night.

00:46:05.000 That was the Holland days of the top Holland guys when right around the time where Ramon Decker started dominating and Rob Kamen started dominating, so much talent came out of Holland.

00:46:20.000 I mean, Holland is a small country.

00:46:23.000 If you look at the size of Holland, you look at the amount of high-level kickboxers that have come out of there, it's pretty incredible.

00:46:29.000 You know, the K1, for instance, at the end, from the final eight, they fight all year.

00:46:36.000 They make a final tournament for the people who don't understand it.

00:46:39.000 They fight ten times a year, or there's ten shows a year.

00:46:42.000 And then in December, there's the final eight, like the UFC started.

00:46:46.000 Eight fighters, the best from the whole year, compete against each other.

00:46:49.000 Whoever wins gets like $450,000, whatever the prize money is.

00:46:53.000 But they start realizing that the final eight, six were Dutch, seven were Dutch.

00:46:57.000 So now, if you're, for instance, a guy who was born in Morocco but lives in Holland, or even when you were born in Holland with Moroccan parents, you know, suddenly you come up with the Moroccan flag.

00:47:07.000 Right.

00:47:07.000 Because they say, we can't have the Dutch flag the whole time.

00:47:10.000 Like Badr Hari. 0.72

00:47:11.000 I love Badr Hari.

00:47:12.000 Perfect example.

00:47:13.000 Yeah.

00:47:13.000 Roman Dekas, the first time I saw him fight, I was in the same card.

00:47:18.000 I was fighting as well.

00:47:19.000 So this is a long time ago.

00:47:20.000 It was just C-class.

00:47:22.000 You know, in Holland you have new, C-class, B-class, A-class.

00:47:25.000 And I just started, so I probably was new.

00:47:28.000 And he fought C-class, I believe.

00:47:30.000 And a friend of mine calls me, he says, you gotta watch.

00:47:33.000 I said, no, I gotta fight, I gotta warm up.

00:47:34.000 He said, you wanna watch this kid?

00:47:36.000 Watch this kid.

00:47:36.000 And I see him, and he's with a little mullet, and he is...

00:47:40.000 Skinny, and he fights this guy who's much older, he's like 16, 17 years old, an older guy with tattoos, so automatically you go, oh, man, he's gonna get killed.

00:47:49.000 And my buddy goes, just wait till he starts, you know?

00:47:53.000 And the first kick, I still remember, he kicked a guy, a low kick, and the guy He went horizontal and fell on the ground.

00:48:00.000 I'm looking at my body, I go, this is the craziest part I've ever seen.

00:48:04.000 It was so explosive and he was so skinny at the time, but his technique was perfect.

00:48:09.000 His technique was perfect and he was so ferocious. 0.99

00:48:12.000 Towards the end, his ankles were so fucked up that he wanted to fight southpaw because he didn't want to throw the right kick, but he would kick a few times and he would go, fuck it. 0.99

00:48:23.000 He'd go right back to it with his bad leg. 0.99

00:48:25.000 I mean, they were telling him, like, we're close to amputating your leg.

00:48:28.000 You've broken your foot so many times.

00:48:30.000 You've broken your shin.

00:48:32.000 Your whole leg is just a series of...

00:48:34.000 And he would wrap it up tight and just still. 0.99

00:48:36.000 Once the fight started, he didn't give a fuck. 0.99

00:48:38.000 He would just throw it right into elbows. 0.99

00:48:40.000 He'd kick everything.

00:48:41.000 Arm out of socket.

00:48:43.000 He would just place it back in the corner. 0.53

00:48:45.000 Yeah, he was an animal.

00:48:47.000 Cor Hammers, his trainer, he told me I never heard him complain.

00:48:51.000 Like he would say, oh, you know, I hurt my ankle or I hurt my hand.

00:48:55.000 He said, I never heard him say anything when he comes back like that.

00:48:59.000 He just goes like, what are you doing?

00:49:01.000 I'm putting my shoulder back in place.

00:49:03.000 It's out of the socket.

00:49:04.000 It was almost like it wasn't his body.

00:49:06.000 Yeah.

00:49:06.000 Like he was using a borrowed body.

00:49:08.000 Yeah.

00:49:09.000 Crazy guy, man. 0.98

00:49:10.000 Super good. 0.99

00:49:11.000 You know, that's Kevin.

00:49:12.000 Kevin Redelman.

00:49:13.000 Look a freak in nature.

00:49:14.000 Yeah.

00:49:14.000 I mean, he could have done any sport.

00:49:17.000 You know, guys like that.

00:49:18.000 And that's what Ramon Deckers do.

00:49:20.000 I'm happy they found fighting, though.

00:49:22.000 Yeah, well, Ramon Deckers really set the standard.

00:49:24.000 He really set the standard, I mean, for ferocity.

00:49:26.000 And he sort of embodied that Holland style, the Dutch style of Muay Thai, where they just, I mean, he was just a crusher.

00:49:33.000 A crusher.

00:49:34.000 Yeah, he was like Rob Kamen, all these guys.

00:49:37.000 What they did, what they...

00:49:38.000 The reason was they started winning fights in Thailand was because they had better hands.

00:49:43.000 They tied the hands and the kicks together.

00:49:46.000 And they didn't do that in Thailand yet.

00:49:48.000 It was predominantly only kicking.

00:49:50.000 Kicking and a lot of clinching.

00:49:51.000 And then you had Rob Kamen, who was one of the greatest kickboxers ever.

00:49:57.000 And then you suddenly...

00:49:58.000 That's the technical version.

00:50:00.000 The more smooth one.

00:50:01.000 Probably he had...

00:50:03.000 The slow twitch fibers, you know, because he, don't get me wrong, he'll knock you out with every punch.

00:50:08.000 But then you had Roman Dekkers, who was the explosive guy.

00:50:12.000 He had that technique, and he added the explosiveness to it.

00:50:16.000 It's like Dyson.

00:50:17.000 Recklessness, too.

00:50:19.000 Crazy power.

00:50:20.000 When he fights Koban the first time.

00:50:22.000 And he hits him with 26 punches.

00:50:25.000 You gotta see the shots.

00:50:27.000 Koban had 200 fights, never been knocked out in his life.

00:50:31.000 He was the first guy to do that.

00:50:32.000 And then you see after the fight, when he's down, the whole place is quiet.

00:50:36.000 Nobody moves.

00:50:37.000 And then Rob Cameron jumps in the ring with a Dutch flag.

00:50:41.000 And he starts parading around.

00:50:43.000 Jamie, pull that fight up, man.

00:50:45.000 No, Rob Cameron.

00:50:46.000 Ramon Deckers versus Koban.

00:50:48.000 Koban Laksam Choytang, right?

00:50:50.000 Is that how you say it?

00:50:51.000 Yeah, just do Koban.

00:50:52.000 Just Koban.

00:50:53.000 I always been with these Polish names, you know.

00:50:57.000 Okay, I call them my first name.

00:50:59.000 The Thai names are pretty crazy.

00:51:01.000 The amount of adverbs and adjectives they have in there.

00:51:06.000 It's like, whatever!

00:51:07.000 It's so strange.

00:51:09.000 The amount of consonants all just lumped in together.

00:51:13.000 And all these crazy names.

00:51:15.000 Here it is.

00:51:16.000 This is a different guy.

00:51:18.000 But just to take a little look to see what kind of power he has.

00:51:22.000 Look at that hook. 0.90

00:51:23.000 The kick, bonk. 0.94

00:51:24.000 Oh yeah, look at that left hook. 1.00

00:51:26.000 What Rob Kamen, the difference between Rob Kamen...

00:51:28.000 Oh, here we go.

00:51:28.000 Yeah, here it is.

00:51:29.000 Rob Kamen was just more technical.

00:51:31.000 He didn't take as many chances.

00:51:32.000 He didn't get hit as much.

00:51:33.000 He was very smart, very technical when he fought.

00:51:36.000 And he's a great trainer, too.

00:51:39.000 You know, Rob Kamen was really one of the guys that was responsible for Brandon Vera early in his career.

00:51:44.000 You know, when Brandon Vera was knocking everybody dead in the UFC early in his career, he was training with Rob Kamen.

00:51:49.000 And when he stopped training with Rob Kamen is when things started, like, not going so well for him.

00:51:53.000 Yep.

00:51:55.000 Oh, this is Koban.

00:51:56.000 This is slow motion for some reason.

00:51:58.000 They show Koban now knocking people out, I think, so they know who Koban is. 0.84

00:52:03.000 They called him the Bufflehead.

00:52:04.000 That was his nickname because he never went down.

00:52:06.000 Well, he had a giant head.

00:52:09.000 See if they can show some...

00:52:10.000 Yeah, go a little further away.

00:52:12.000 Yeah, I don't want to see it in slow motion.

00:52:13.000 Maybe that's it where you are now.

00:52:15.000 Yeah, but I don't want to see it slow-mo.

00:52:16.000 I want to see them...

00:52:16.000 There we go.

00:52:17.000 Now they're actually fighting.

00:52:18.000 This is going to be so crazy.

00:52:20.000 The way he gives them the extra punch.

00:52:23.000 Watch in a bit.

00:52:24.000 You'll see it.

00:52:25.000 So, Ramon, most of the time, fought southpaw?

00:52:30.000 Is that what it was?

00:52:31.000 No, he fought orthodox.

00:52:33.000 He fought both.

00:52:34.000 So, most of the time, when he fights different, it's because he has an injury, like you said.

00:52:38.000 Oh, this is Lawrence Kenshin, who's an amazing analyst.

00:52:44.000 He does a fantastic job of breaking down fights.

00:52:48.000 His fight breakdowns are amazing, but he does a lot of it in slow motion to show technique.

00:52:53.000 So see if you can find just the actual fight instead of that video.

00:52:56.000 Definitely, if you're a fan of striking and you want to understand it a little bit better, watch Lawrence's stuff.

00:53:02.000 What is his YouTube channel?

00:53:04.000 Lawrence's YouTube channel, because we should give him some props.

00:53:07.000 Just his name, Lawrence Kenshin.

00:53:08.000 He's amazing.

00:53:09.000 Lawrence is amazing.

00:53:10.000 He does such a great job of breaking down fights.

00:53:13.000 His videos are incredible, and he really deserves a lot of credit for that.

00:53:18.000 I love watching his breakdowns, especially Thai. 1.00

00:53:21.000 He loves a lot of Muay Thai, a lot of Muay Thai breakdowns. 0.97

00:53:24.000 So here's the actual fight itself.

00:53:26.000 Man, these are like, in a lot of ways, unprecedented times because the ties back in those days, we were used to karate and we were used to PKA, kickboxing.

00:53:40.000 Yeah, yeah, 10 kicks, WK. People didn't know.

00:53:44.000 And then when Westerners started going over to Thailand and competing against the Thais, we started seeing what high-level Muay Thai they had and their kicking technique and especially the low kicks was just devastating. 0.99

00:53:57.000 That was the first.

00:53:58.000 The American champions here, when they came, when they lost, it was low kicks.

00:54:02.000 Yeah, but remember when Rufus went and fought?

00:54:05.000 And it's kind of funny because Duke Rufus talks about it, he kind of laughs about it now, that they were saying when his brother got fucked up, I forget who his brother fought, but he got lit up with leg kicks and stopped, and Duke was like, well, there's not a lot of technique to that, and, you know, I don't think there's much, it doesn't take much talent. 0.97

00:54:22.000 It takes a lot of fucking talent. 0.97

00:54:23.000 It takes a lot of talent. 1.00

00:54:24.000 They didn't know you.

00:54:25.000 Now watch this.

00:54:26.000 Look at these hands.

00:54:27.000 Bang, bang, bang! 1.00

00:54:27.000 Look at this! 1.00

00:54:28.000 This is it!

00:54:29.000 Ramon Decker's in his prime!

00:54:32.000 Look at Coban gets up!

00:54:33.000 Wait, the finishing punch he's gonna give.

00:54:34.000 Watch.

00:54:35.000 One, two, three... 1.00

00:54:36.000 Oh my god, the fucking power in his hands! 1.00

00:54:39.000 How tough was Coban? 1.00

00:54:42.000 Look at him.

00:54:43.000 He's out on his feet.

00:54:44.000 He's walking forward.

00:54:45.000 They're giving him a standing eight count.

00:54:46.000 The last right hand.

00:54:47.000 Watch that.

00:54:48.000 This is going to be so badass.

00:54:50.000 It's amazing how much Coban could take, though.

00:54:53.000 Oh, move. 0.99

00:54:54.000 This one.

00:54:54.000 Oh!

00:54:56.000 That's it.

00:54:56.000 Incredible.

00:54:57.000 Now watch.

00:54:57.000 Look at the audience.

00:54:59.000 Yeah.

00:54:59.000 There's only Dutch guys.

00:55:01.000 Everybody is quiet.

00:55:02.000 Yeah, man.

00:55:03.000 And then you see Cayman coming in.

00:55:07.000 Odess came in and he's gonna get the flag.

00:55:09.000 I remember. 0.98

00:55:12.000 Man, how fucking tough was Koban, too, to take those shots? 0.97

00:55:17.000 A lot of people lost a lot of money there. 0.98

00:55:18.000 I mean, there's not a whole lot of people on the planet that are his weight that would have taken those punches.

00:55:23.000 As many as he took, clean to the face, and you saw...

00:55:27.000 Yeah, he's got the flag.

00:55:31.000 And Ramon Deckers was just teeing off, full power.

00:55:34.000 I mean, winging those shots in on him too, man.

00:55:37.000 This core hammer.

00:55:39.000 Such a scary guy.

00:55:40.000 Yeah, man.

00:55:41.000 Glory days.

00:55:42.000 Well, he's up there now with Kevin, so they're having a blast.

00:55:45.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:55:46.000 Sean Tompkins.

00:55:47.000 He died young as well.

00:55:49.000 He died a heart attack while he was riding his bike.

00:55:51.000 His bike, yeah.

00:55:52.000 What was that?

00:55:52.000 Did they know what happened?

00:55:54.000 No, they first thought maybe he fell, but it was his heart.

00:55:57.000 And he's also, because we've all been crazy, we all liked going, pushing limits, you know?

00:56:01.000 We were drinking with everything, but he was totally like a year nothing.

00:56:05.000 We started cycling, and I knew, you know, once he starts something, and he loved cycling, I mean, this guy is going to go 50 miles an hour.

00:56:13.000 I know he's going to, because that's who he is.

00:56:15.000 He can't stop being the best at everything he does.

00:56:19.000 So I thought...

00:56:19.000 So he wasn't just riding his bike.

00:56:21.000 No, no.

00:56:21.000 He was probably going crazy with it.

00:56:23.000 Yeah.

00:56:24.000 That's his attitude. 1.00

00:56:25.000 He's such a fucking animal. 1.00

00:56:26.000 Such an animal. 1.00

00:56:27.000 Yeah.

00:56:27.000 He probably pushed himself to his heart broke.

00:56:29.000 And also when you see him, you know, all the punishment he got in time with all the cuts on his forehead.

00:56:35.000 Yeah.

00:56:35.000 You know, he looks really badass.

00:56:38.000 When you look at him, you go like, oh yeah, that's...

00:56:40.000 Yeah, I want that.

00:56:41.000 Well, I remember when he fought Dwayne Ludwig towards the end of his career.

00:56:44.000 I mean, his face was flattened out, his massive scar tissue all over his eyes, his nose was flattened out.

00:56:51.000 I mean, he took a lot of punches.

00:56:54.000 I don't think anybody's face changed more than Vanderlei's, though.

00:56:58.000 His face got flattened.

00:57:00.000 I mean, you look at Vandele during the old Valley Tudo days and then Vandele towards the end in Pride.

00:57:06.000 I mean, it changed his face.

00:57:08.000 Didn't they do surgery with the cheekbones like Nick Diaz did, you know, to make him flatter or something?

00:57:12.000 Once he was in the UFC. They not only did that, they took cartilage out of his rib and reconstructed his nose.

00:57:17.000 And Vandele had his nose made big so that he could get more air in.

00:57:22.000 I mean, it looked crazy because his nose looks very different than it used to look.

00:57:26.000 Like, I remember the first time I saw him was on the way...

00:57:30.000 He was, like, for the weigh-ins.

00:57:32.000 He wasn't fighting.

00:57:32.000 He was with someone else.

00:57:34.000 And he came up the stage, and I didn't know who the fuck it was. 0.99

00:57:36.000 Yeah, you didn't recognize him. 0.99

00:57:37.000 I didn't know who it was.

00:57:38.000 Oh, that is scary.

00:57:38.000 And someone said, that's Vanderlei.

00:57:39.000 And I went, what?!

00:57:41.000 What?

00:57:41.000 Because he had just gotten the surgery, so his face was pulled tight, his eyebrows were pulled tight, and his nose was big!

00:57:49.000 It was like he had his nose made much larger with a big piece of cartilage so they could take punches.

00:57:56.000 Oh, yeah, you see? 1.00

00:57:57.000 That's the same with the stupid ears, you know, with those cauliflower ears. 1.00

00:58:02.000 I suck them out. 1.00

00:58:03.000 Three times a day, you got to stab through it, and you need a big syringe and a large needle, because I do not want to have those ears. 0.99

00:58:10.000 And they go, oh no, they're considerate trophies.

00:58:12.000 I go, okay, good for you.

00:58:14.000 Not for me.

00:58:15.000 I always wore ear guards.

00:58:16.000 I have little tiny pieces of it here and there, but I always wore ear guards.

00:58:20.000 It's just not smart.

00:58:22.000 It affects your hearing.

00:58:24.000 Like, it looks cool, but it affects the way...

00:58:26.000 The reason the ear is designed that way is so the sound echoes off the outside of the ear and you can hear better.

00:58:31.000 Like, if you take your ear, like folks who don't have cauliflower ear, take your ear, go over the top of your ear and bend it down.

00:58:37.000 That's what those guys are hearing like all the time.

00:58:40.000 Like, Randy?

00:58:41.000 Randy can't even use iPhone ear pods, those ear plugs, those little things.

00:58:46.000 Yeah, they can't put them in.

00:58:46.000 I had a guy also, yeah.

00:58:47.000 They walk around with the Bluetooth, and I said, how can you listen to that thing?

00:58:51.000 I mean, it's a thing.

00:58:53.000 It's not even an ear.

00:58:54.000 Well, Randy told me, too, what happens, what it is, is calcification.

00:58:58.000 So when your ear breaks and bleeds, if you don't drain it, it actually turns to calcium.

00:59:03.000 The blood turns hard out.

00:59:05.000 So it's like a bone. 0.97

00:59:06.000 So what Randy would do is get on top of guys and grind his ear into their eyeball.

00:59:11.000 He would get his ear, like when he's taking guys down, he would shove his ear, right?

00:59:14.000 It's like he had a rock on his head.

00:59:15.000 There's something very wrong with this guy.

00:59:17.000 There it is, yeah.

00:59:19.000 Look at that, yeah.

00:59:20.000 And just as people know at home, a really tiny surgery can fix this right away.

00:59:25.000 I mean, they can fix this in 10 minutes.

00:59:29.000 One of Eddie Bravo's black belts, Brent, he had it done.

00:59:32.000 He had his ear cut, and then they pulled it back, and they pulled the stuff out.

00:59:37.000 But it can get very dangerous, too.

00:59:39.000 You can get some infections in there.

00:59:40.000 Like, you remember Dave Terrell?

00:59:42.000 Yeah, I remember. 0.99

00:59:42.000 Dave Terrell had his ear fucking removed. 0.99

00:59:45.000 He had his ear removed and he had to cauterize the inside of his ear. 0.99

00:59:49.000 Because his infections were so bad that it was fucking with his equilibrium, his balance was off.

00:59:54.000 The whole inside of his ear was just pus and infections.

00:59:58.000 The Kimbo against James Thompson fight, when they called it like a satellite was hanging and he hits it and you see the blood splintering.

01:00:06.000 Well, he went in there with, I mean, he didn't, not only did he not drain it, it was like a recent blood.

01:00:12.000 It was like he had a mouse living in his ear.

01:00:14.000 Yeah, it was big.

01:00:15.000 Oh, that was nasty.

01:00:16.000 And then he hits it.

01:00:17.000 That was nasty.

01:00:18.000 Yeah, splatter.

01:00:19.000 Well, probably no one's worse than Jessica Ai versus Laura Smith. 0.98

01:00:26.000 Was it Laura Smith?

01:00:27.000 What was her name?

01:00:28.000 The counselor, Leslie.

01:00:29.000 Leslie Smith, thank you.

01:00:30.000 And Jessica I hits her in ear and you see the blood shoot straight up in the air from her ear. 1.00

01:00:38.000 It was insane.

01:00:39.000 It would be crazy if she hits, she sees the blood flying and I go...

01:00:43.000 Try to catch it. 0.99

01:00:44.000 That means your opponent is crazy. 0.97

01:00:45.000 You can see it right there. 0.99

01:00:46.000 Look at that.

01:00:46.000 It's insane.

01:00:48.000 And half of her ear was hanging off her head.

01:00:50.000 And by the way, how tough is Leslie Smith?

01:00:52.000 Because Leslie Smith was mad that they stopped the fight. 1.00

01:00:55.000 She had a fucking hole that you could see her brain. 1.00

01:00:57.000 Oh, I've always been a big fan of Leslie Smith. 1.00

01:01:00.000 That's her nickname, right?

01:01:01.000 The Gunslinger or something?

01:01:03.000 What is her nickname?

01:01:04.000 Something like Western.

01:01:06.000 I don't know.

01:01:07.000 I don't know her nickname.

01:01:08.000 But it fits her because she's that tough.

01:01:11.000 And Jessica just started targeting that one spot over and over again. 0.67

01:01:15.000 Oh, it was disgusting. 0.98

01:01:16.000 That was a nasty ear, man. 0.96

01:01:18.000 That was a bad one.

01:01:19.000 Yeah, I never got that, people.

01:01:20.000 You see, I will be too nice at that moment.

01:01:22.000 I won't hit that ear anymore.

01:01:24.000 Because people go like...

01:01:26.000 Hit the air again, they go by.

01:01:27.000 The Peacemaker?

01:01:28.000 The Peacemaker, see?

01:01:28.000 Well, that's Clint Eastwood.

01:01:30.000 I thought about Clint Eastwood.

01:01:31.000 The Peacemaker.

01:01:34.000 Yeah.

01:01:34.000 I got a sick shot here.

01:01:36.000 Well, women's MMA is really heating up right now, right? 1.00

01:01:38.000 With Joanna Janjacek.

01:01:40.000 Oh, I love her.

01:01:41.000 Woo! 0.99

01:01:44.000 She's fun, man.

01:01:45.000 That chick is wild.

01:01:46.000 She breaks her hands a lot, too, unfortunately.

01:01:49.000 She's broke her hands in two UFC fights so far. 0.99

01:01:51.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:01:51.000 In the first runs, right?

01:01:53.000 In the last fight.

01:01:54.000 That's why she couldn't finish, she said.

01:01:56.000 Total animal. 1.00

01:01:57.000 Yeah, she's tough as shit. 1.00

01:01:58.000 I love also the way she gets in their head, you know, at the way into looking, that story behind her. 0.99

01:02:03.000 She gets low and looks at her from below. 0.91

01:02:05.000 She's dangerous. 1.00

01:02:06.000 She's dangerous. 1.00

01:02:07.000 But Klaja Gadea is a fucking beast, too. 1.00

01:02:11.000 That's a great fight. 1.00

01:02:12.000 And they're going to coach alongside each other.

01:02:14.000 They're going to coach on the Ultimate Fighter, and then they're going to fight.

01:02:17.000 And they're going to fight the day before the big July UFC 200 card.

01:02:22.000 Oh, wow.

01:02:22.000 Yeah, so they're going to have the finals on Friday, where the Ultimate Fighter finals, and then they're going to fight for the title.

01:02:29.000 Ioana Jacek and Claudia Gadea, and then they're going to have the big 200 card, which they don't even know exactly who's going to fight in the 200 card. 1.00

01:02:36.000 I mean, that's July, so a lot depends on Conor McGregor vs.

01:02:40.000 Dos Anjos.

01:02:41.000 Now, this, just for Joanna, I would want to see the Ultimate Fighter now.

01:02:46.000 You know, because that's going to be interesting, because her personality, I think, is going to make it. 0.91

01:02:52.000 And Cadella also, I mean, it's an animal.

01:02:54.000 Well, they fought, and it was a split decision.

01:02:56.000 A split decision.

01:02:56.000 Very close fight.

01:02:57.000 And the way Cadella looks, right, her body, it's also like a machine. 0.87

01:03:04.000 Very good Muay Thai, too, but really good ground game.

01:03:08.000 So the question is, was she going to be able to get it to the ground?

01:03:10.000 Because Joanna hurt her in the first round, knocked her down, and won that round. 1.00

01:03:15.000 But a lot of people thought that Claudia might have won the second and third.

01:03:18.000 So it was a very close fight.

01:03:20.000 Very controversial and very tightly disputed fight.

01:03:25.000 So I think the rematch is going to be very exciting.

01:03:27.000 I'm looking forward to that.

01:03:29.000 Who's Jay Drejcik work with for wrestling?

01:03:32.000 That's a good question.

01:03:33.000 That's a good question.

01:03:34.000 I don't know who her wrestling coach is.

01:03:36.000 But I think she does a lot of her work in Poland, you know, because she lives in Poland.

01:03:40.000 So, I mean, there's so many good European wrestling coaches.

01:03:44.000 You know, Europe and wrestling, there's a lot of great, like, especially, they bring in a lot of Eastern Bloc wrestlers, a lot of Russian wrestlers.

01:03:53.000 Like, that's how George St. Pierre got so good.

01:03:55.000 The Russian nationals who are training up in Montreal.

01:03:59.000 So technical, too.

01:04:01.000 You know, those guys, the Russian style of wrestling is so technical, so drill-oriented, you know.

01:04:07.000 There's so many really high-level...

01:04:10.000 I mean, look at what's happening now in the UFC with all these Sambo guys, these high-level grapplers.

01:04:16.000 Like, well, first of all, you've got Habib Nurmagomedov, who's one of the best in the lightweight division.

01:04:23.000 But he's another one that has a hard time staying healthy.

01:04:25.000 Mm-hmm.

01:04:27.000 But you think it's the training or you think it's just the person?

01:04:30.000 Who knows?

01:04:31.000 It could be both. 1.00

01:04:33.000 He's such a fucking animal. 1.00

01:04:34.000 You see the way he fights. 1.00

01:04:36.000 You gotta think he trains that way.

01:04:37.000 The way he fights is just so grinding. 0.98

01:04:40.000 He's so fucking attacking and relentless like a badger, you know? 0.99

01:04:43.000 So, who knows? 0.99

01:04:44.000 I was guilty of that as well.

01:04:49.000 I trained really hard.

01:04:49.000 When I hear stories, I hear fighters saying, oh, we go, like, on Fridays we spar, like 70%.

01:04:57.000 And I go, and?

01:04:59.000 And they say, no, that's it.

01:05:00.000 I say, that's it for sparring, yeah.

01:05:03.000 I go, wow!

01:05:05.000 And they always ask, so how many times do you do it?

01:05:07.000 I say, every workout, because that's what we're going to do.

01:05:10.000 And we're going to try to...

01:05:12.000 I'll try to hurt your legs.

01:05:13.000 Well, if you have to fight, I won't.

01:05:16.000 And your body.

01:05:16.000 I will go with kickstand.

01:05:17.000 I expect them also to go hard with me.

01:05:20.000 And the head.

01:05:20.000 Yeah, of course, we watch out for the head.

01:05:22.000 We don't knock each other out too much.

01:05:24.000 Too much.

01:05:25.000 Too much.

01:05:25.000 Because it happens as well, right?

01:05:27.000 It's inevitable.

01:05:28.000 But that's why I didn't fight for seven years when I did that 2006 fight.

01:05:33.000 I felt great.

01:05:34.000 They say, no ring rust?

01:05:35.000 I say, no, because we're doing it two times a day.

01:05:38.000 We're trying.

01:05:39.000 We're training hard.

01:05:40.000 And if you're used to it, it's the same as a fight.

01:05:42.000 I mean, if they go hard, that's a fight.

01:05:45.000 Yeah, well, it's very similar if you train like that.

01:05:48.000 Some people feel like, I mean, that's one of the ideas behind hard training is that when you train hard, you fight hard, and it becomes normal to you.

01:05:55.000 But then other people think, well, you really should just train technical like a lot of the Thais do. 0.99

01:06:01.000 They train more technical and more light with their sparring, and the hard work is all pad work and bag work.

01:06:06.000 So there's people that think, like, that's the way to save yourself.

01:06:09.000 Like, Wonderboy says that.

01:06:11.000 He says he spars very light.

01:06:13.000 Because he wants to preserve his chin, wants to preserve his head.

01:06:15.000 It's like he saves the hard work for the bag and for fights.

01:06:19.000 I used to train a lot with my buddy Amir, Amir Peretz, the Navy SEAL guy from Israel.

01:06:26.000 And he's the one guy who could hang with me, I mean stamina wise, because I will not knock him out, but we will go hard, people who see us, They think it's out of control, but it's not at all.

01:06:38.000 So it's also about who you train with.

01:06:40.000 If one day your steady sparring partner is sick and somebody else pops up and you don't know that guy and that guy tries to make a name for himself, that's when you get the injuries.

01:06:50.000 But I truly believe in going hard.

01:06:51.000 How many times do you see...

01:06:55.000 It really angers me if I see guys in a clinch kneeing other people and they knee them like they knee in training.

01:07:02.000 They just lift their legs.

01:07:04.000 Nobody gives a real knee.

01:07:05.000 Look at Joanna when she makes a knee. 0.91

01:07:07.000 That's a different story.

01:07:09.000 Or Alistair.

01:07:09.000 Explode in there.

01:07:10.000 Yeah.

01:07:11.000 Go full blast.

01:07:12.000 Alistair's knee is devastating.

01:07:13.000 Or the knees to the thighs. 0.81

01:07:15.000 It's not going to do anything if you do it like that.

01:07:17.000 If you do one hard one, It's worse than a low kick.

01:07:20.000 Yeah.

01:07:20.000 Because they don't expect it.

01:07:21.000 The muscle is relaxing.

01:07:22.000 It goes straight through.

01:07:23.000 But nobody does it.

01:07:24.000 Yeah, there's a few.

01:07:25.000 I mean, we're talking about 1% of the fighters.

01:07:28.000 But isn't it, though, like all techniques?

01:07:29.000 Like some guys just aren't that good at certain techniques.

01:07:32.000 They just don't have the kind of pop.

01:07:33.000 Like you'll see guys throw kicks, and there's just nothing to them.

01:07:36.000 And it's not that they're not trying.

01:07:37.000 It's that they don't have the looseness of the hips.

01:07:39.000 They don't have that sort of snap into the kicks.

01:07:42.000 No.

01:07:43.000 Most of the time, it's just technique.

01:07:45.000 If you train your legs and you put like 10-pound ankle weights and you just start throwing knees from zero, don't make it a bouncing...

01:07:53.000 Like sit-ups.

01:07:55.000 I can do a thousand sit-ups as long as I use momentum to get back up.

01:08:00.000 That's the problem that a lot of guys do.

01:08:01.000 They do the knees.

01:08:02.000 It's all momentum.

01:08:04.000 Stand still.

01:08:05.000 Explode.

01:08:06.000 Stand still.

01:08:07.000 Explode.

01:08:07.000 And the trick also with knees is to move your hips away from your partner.

01:08:11.000 Same as with the straight punch.

01:08:12.000 The longer the knee is on its way, the more power it's going to have.

01:08:16.000 And these guys, they don't.

01:08:17.000 They actually, they teach, throw your hips in with a knee to the body. 1.00

01:08:20.000 It's the dumbest thing to do. 0.88

01:08:21.000 It's like me giving you a straight punch and closing the distance. 1.00

01:08:24.000 I'm jamming myself.

01:08:25.000 You don't want to do Free it up.

01:08:27.000 Let the hip flexor do the work. 0.99

01:08:28.000 And at the moment you connect, yeah, that's when you want to push your weight in.

01:08:32.000 Right.

01:08:32.000 You see?

01:08:33.000 But a lot of guys don't do it like that.

01:08:35.000 They just knee like they do in training, in sparring.

01:08:37.000 Do you get frustrated at when, I mean, obviously there's some very high-level training going on in MMA. Some very high-level training.

01:08:44.000 But there's also some training where you see these guys, like, they're just not really prepared correctly.

01:08:48.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:08:48.000 Well, kicking in the balls. 0.98

01:08:50.000 You know, the inside low kick. 0.98

01:08:52.000 90% when it happens, it's just because the guy doesn't know how to kick.

01:08:55.000 Because he's kicking up.

01:08:56.000 He's kicking up.

01:08:57.000 His right foot, if he kicks with the left, his right foot, his toes, I guarantee you, pointing straight to the opponent.

01:09:02.000 What they need to do is open that foot.

01:09:04.000 Let the toes point to the side.

01:09:06.000 And then the angle is much easier to kick.

01:09:09.000 You will never have that problem.

01:09:10.000 These are just guys who don't know how to kick, and that's why they kick in the pills. 0.95

01:09:13.000 Well, it's interesting because that kick to the balls is so much more common in MMA than it is in Muay Thai. 0.97

01:09:18.000 Or in glory. 0.96

01:09:20.000 Because they know.

01:09:21.000 Exactly.

01:09:22.000 You know, we were talking about Glory getting, before this podcast started, we were talking about Glory getting picked up by Fight Pass.

01:09:28.000 Oh, man.

01:09:28.000 How exciting that is.

01:09:30.000 Glory right now is so good.

01:09:32.000 There's so much high-level kickboxing talent in the world, and now that, you know, Glory picked up, it's showtime, and K1's not really around anymore.

01:09:40.000 I mean, Glory's the game.

01:09:42.000 It's the game.

01:09:42.000 That's it.

01:09:43.000 You got the best guys on the planet.

01:09:44.000 Yeah.

01:09:45.000 You know, Gokun Saki even, yeah, he got injured now.

01:09:47.000 What happened to him?

01:09:48.000 What happened to him?

01:09:49.000 I don't know.

01:09:50.000 I don't know.

01:09:50.000 I just found out.

01:09:52.000 Mauro told me because he was going to maybe do that show.

01:09:54.000 I think maybe now it's Ron Kruk falling in for him.

01:09:57.000 But Saki, that's a guy who was like Tyson and that's what I teach a lot.

01:10:02.000 Double rights, double left punches. 0.92

01:10:04.000 You know, everybody has a pattern.

01:10:07.000 The fight that really upset me is Pacquiao against Mayweather.

01:10:12.000 Raywater is hanging against the ropes.

01:10:14.000 Pacquiao is just unloading.

01:10:15.000 But everything is left, right, left, right, left, right, left, right.

01:10:17.000 Now, if you take a Mike Tyson, suddenly he throws in a left uppercut liver shot or a spleen right uppercut, double right, double left.

01:10:24.000 You mix that into a pattern.

01:10:26.000 Because if you throw a boxer in the corner and you start unloading on him with right, left, right, left, right, left punch, that's a pattern.

01:10:32.000 They just punch, yeah.

01:10:33.000 But if you go left, right, left, right, left.

01:10:35.000 Left.

01:10:35.000 And you change the second punch as well.

01:10:38.000 Like a three shot with a left hook and then you go to the body while keep looking in his eyes or a left uppercut.

01:10:43.000 Change the angle of the punch but use the same arm.

01:10:46.000 That's when you get really effective and you see this in boxing and Thai boxing.

01:10:50.000 Everybody who does it is really effective at it yet He didn't do it.

01:10:54.000 They got paid $80 million and $180 million.

01:10:56.000 You would expect to do that.

01:10:58.000 You had a shoulder injury.

01:10:59.000 That doesn't prevent him from throwing a double left or a double right.

01:11:02.000 Mike Tyson, spleen right uppercut.

01:11:04.000 I think he knocked six guys out like that.

01:11:06.000 Bang! 1.00

01:11:07.000 Over.

01:11:07.000 Unusual patterns.

01:11:09.000 Yep, that's it.

01:11:09.000 Yeah.

01:11:10.000 Did you ever see the, well, John Wayne Parr has got a fucking amazing highlight reel, but I put one of them on my Instagram page the other day, where he hits this guy with like seven uppercuts in a row with the right side, just bang, bang, bang, bang, bang! 0.70

01:11:24.000 Like, you can't prepare, you don't know the guy's gonna do that! 0.66

01:11:26.000 I do this yesterday in my class.

01:11:28.000 Double right uppercut, left. 0.99

01:11:29.000 People don't know.

01:11:30.000 I had Hector Pena.

01:11:32.000 He had three left uppercuts.

01:11:34.000 And the third one, the guy fell already down.

01:11:37.000 He hit him on the way down.

01:11:38.000 Three left uppercuts.

01:11:39.000 Here's the John Wayne Parr highlight.

01:11:41.000 I love this highlight.

01:11:43.000 Look at this.

01:11:44.000 Boom, boom, boom. 0.87

01:11:45.000 He's an animal.

01:11:46.000 If one is good, two is better. 1.00

01:11:48.000 John Wayne Parr is a wild motherfucker. 1.00

01:11:50.000 Yeah, he really is. 1.00

01:11:51.000 Great guy, too.

01:11:52.000 Total animal.

01:11:52.000 He also came up with that striking organization where he lives with MMA gloves, pretty much, right?

01:11:58.000 Yeah, it's his.

01:11:58.000 Cage Muay Thai.

01:12:00.000 I love that combination.

01:12:00.000 I never got anybody who doesn't do that.

01:12:02.000 Why they don't do that here?

01:12:04.000 Well, they should, and maybe he can bring it to the United States.

01:12:06.000 But, you know, what he wanted to do was have, like, Cage...

01:12:10.000 Like, he likes the cage.

01:12:11.000 He likes the fact that you're trapped in there, and he likes the small gloves.

01:12:14.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:12:14.000 So he's like, let's just do this and fuck the ground game. 0.99

01:12:17.000 Let's just strike like that. 1.00

01:12:18.000 I love a guy like that.

01:12:20.000 Yeah, he's a wild guy, man.

01:12:21.000 He's fun.

01:12:22.000 Have you ever seen the pictures of his face, like how many times he's been stitched up?

01:12:26.000 Oh, no, I can only imagine.

01:12:27.000 There's a picture of John Wayne Parr's face after one of his fights where his entire face is like a road map of stitches. 0.99

01:12:34.000 It's fucking crazy. 0.99

01:12:36.000 See if you can find that picture because it's one of those pictures you just look at and you start shaking your head and blinking like, what the fuck? 1.00

01:12:43.000 His whole face is like patched together. 0.98

01:12:45.000 Look at this photograph.

01:12:47.000 Look at this.

01:12:47.000 Oh!

01:12:48.000 Jesus Christ!

01:12:49.000 It's real!

01:12:50.000 Yes!

01:12:50.000 That is the craziest thing!

01:12:51.000 It's one fight.

01:12:52.000 It's one fight.

01:12:53.000 His entire face.

01:12:54.000 Oh, was it Thai guy or what? 0.51

01:12:55.000 Yeah.

01:12:55.000 Oh, yeah.

01:12:56.000 Elbows. 1.00

01:12:57.000 He got just the shit elbowed out of him. 1.00

01:12:58.000 Wow! 1.00

01:12:59.000 It's such an insane photo.

01:13:01.000 Leather face.

01:13:02.000 Yeah.

01:13:02.000 He's over 300 stitches in his face.

01:13:07.000 300. Wow.

01:13:09.000 Yeah.

01:13:10.000 Well, the ears are still good.

01:13:12.000 At least he doesn't have the cauliflower.

01:13:14.000 He's got a little cauliflower in his left one.

01:13:16.000 He's been hit there as well.

01:13:17.000 Yeah, from shots.

01:13:18.000 Not really from grappling.

01:13:19.000 He fought one MMA fight, but he's just never really trained grappling.

01:13:23.000 It's not really his thing.

01:13:25.000 But as Muay Thai goes, I trained with him.

01:13:28.000 I got a chance to work out with him and learn some techniques from him.

01:13:31.000 Everything he throws is with power.

01:13:33.000 The way he When he throws a jab, he pulls the right hand back as he throws the jab.

01:13:38.000 He doesn't just jab like a boxer would throw a jab.

01:13:41.000 The way he jabs, he's like pulling back the right and stepping forward.

01:13:44.000 He's like... 0.99

01:13:45.000 Everything he throws is designed to kill you. 0.98

01:13:49.000 Yes, but that's my thing also. 0.99

01:13:51.000 I like it like that.

01:13:52.000 Everything you throw...

01:13:55.000 When you said in the beginning, I kick somebody and you see their faces, and I don't care if they block it.

01:14:00.000 I just kick as hard as I can on the defense, just to get inside their heads that they know that, you better block this kick.

01:14:06.000 Because next time, if you're not blocking it, it's going to be a problem.

01:14:10.000 And then you start breaking your opponent down mentally. 0.76

01:14:13.000 Hit him, hold the hands up high, just hit as hard as you can on the hands. 0.93

01:14:17.000 Yeah. 0.91

01:14:17.000 A lot of guys don't do that. 0.91

01:14:18.000 They truly believe that this is enough defense for like a right hook.

01:14:22.000 It's not.

01:14:23.000 It's like me putting on a helmet.

01:14:24.000 I say this in seminars, at seminars.

01:14:28.000 I say, okay, imagine I would tape a focus mitt to my face and you can give me a straight punch or a hook.

01:14:35.000 You think I go down. 0.92

01:14:36.000 And everybody goes, yeah, of course you're going to go down.

01:14:39.000 I say, so why is everybody doing this?

01:14:41.000 You make yourself one with your head. 0.99

01:14:43.000 I'm just going to hit your hand as hard as I can. 1.00

01:14:45.000 You will still go down.

01:14:46.000 But what happens in the mind of a fighter, as soon as I hit you and I see your hand going up, automatically I let my power off because it's like, oh, it's defended.

01:14:57.000 But if you just don't care or close line him, like I said in the beginning, he'll go straight through.

01:15:02.000 Yeah, well you started throwing kicks in the Pancrase days, I remember, you know, because I came from a kicking background, there was not that many good kickers in MMA. Before Maurice Smith fought Conan, we really didn't see that many head kick KOs in MMA. Yep.

01:15:16.000 And especially against a black belt.

01:15:18.000 When Maurice fought Conan Silveira, it was the first time.

01:15:21.000 That was in...

01:15:25.000 No, it was in that other one.

01:15:26.000 It was in the John Peretti organization, wasn't it?

01:15:28.000 Oh, Battlekade?

01:15:30.000 Battlekade?

01:15:30.000 Extreme fighting?

01:15:31.000 Yeah, extreme fighting.

01:15:32.000 Yeah, and that was the first time I was like, okay, now we're finally seeing a guy who can throw some kicks in MMA. But the first time really was you and Pancrase, because you would, and they make you wear those crazy boots.

01:15:42.000 You had like wrestling shoes on with a big boot shin and in-step.

01:15:46.000 Slash thing, yeah.

01:15:47.000 Yeah, but you still went slow.

01:15:48.000 Glam that kick into their arms.

01:15:51.000 Nobody wants to hold pads for a guy like that.

01:15:54.000 Forget about getting it on your raw arm.

01:15:57.000 It's a great way to go into a fight because you know you're capable of doing that.

01:16:02.000 So you only have to connect.

01:16:04.000 If you know that you only have to connect, just wait and connect.

01:16:07.000 I'm not the guy who likes to get hit.

01:16:09.000 I don't mind, but I'd rather not.

01:16:12.000 So I just use movement.

01:16:14.000 And then just explode at moments that you need to explode.

01:16:18.000 How many fighters are you training right now?

01:16:20.000 Do you train any active guys?

01:16:21.000 No.

01:16:22.000 I train a few guys at my gym, but I've been traveling a lot now, so the coaches that I have at my gym are training them, but we got only three pros and then a bunch of amateur guys.

01:16:34.000 So you're still doing inside MMA with Ken.

01:16:39.000 And you do World Series of Fighting still?

01:16:42.000 World Series of Fighting, actually this weekend coming up on, what is it?

01:16:46.000 Saturday, this Saturday on NBCSN. Really?

01:16:48.000 Okay, nice.

01:16:49.000 Yeah, Moraes is fighting again.

01:16:51.000 He's very talented.

01:16:52.000 I like his footwork too.

01:16:53.000 That's a guy that people sleep on.

01:16:55.000 They don't really realize how talented that guy is.

01:16:57.000 And it's unfortunate that World Series of Fighting is not getting as much attention as it deserves.

01:17:02.000 Yeah, well, there's a lot of MMA out there now.

01:17:05.000 You know, it's very hard to pull...

01:17:07.000 Eyeballs, too.

01:17:08.000 But it's the same with Glory.

01:17:10.000 Glory doesn't have the eyeballs, which blows me away because if there's something exciting, you know, it's a Glory event.

01:17:17.000 And that Justin Gagey kid, too.

01:17:18.000 Oh, what an animal, eh? 1.00

01:17:20.000 Fucking savage. 1.00

01:17:20.000 Yeah, he's... 1.00

01:17:21.000 He's fun.

01:17:22.000 That guy's fun.

01:17:23.000 He's fun to watch.

01:17:24.000 You know...

01:17:25.000 He should tone a little down, I'll always say, but maybe it's his fight style and he just wants to go.

01:17:30.000 Because sometimes he gets hit hard, and I think eventually, we had that with Clay Guida, you know, like fighters, eventually it's going to break.

01:17:37.000 Yeah, something's going to give.

01:17:38.000 Yeah, you can only get hit hard and just walk through things so much until eventually your body doesn't cooperate anymore.

01:17:44.000 And then, most of the time, once that happens, it's going to happen a lot. 0.96

01:17:48.000 So there's a lot of crazy shit going on right now in MMA. The big one, to me, the one that I'm most excited about is March 5th. 0.95

01:17:55.000 Conor McGregor vs.

01:17:56.000 Dos Santos. 1.00

01:17:57.000 That is a fucking crazy fight. 1.00

01:17:59.000 First of all, who the hell has ever been like Conor? 1.00

01:18:02.000 The best shit-talker of all time. 0.99

01:18:05.000 Hilarious. 0.99

01:18:07.000 I'm in love with that guy.

01:18:09.000 I... I love him.

01:18:11.000 I love everything about him.

01:18:13.000 We had him on the show.

01:18:13.000 He's funny.

01:18:14.000 You know, everything he does, every speech he does, it's different.

01:18:18.000 It's not like he's repeating everything I do.

01:18:20.000 Like, if I do an interview before, and it's about, let's say, a movie, you know, you say the same thing over and over again.

01:18:25.000 But he doesn't.

01:18:26.000 No.

01:18:26.000 You know?

01:18:27.000 And he doesn't really use profanity as well, so it keeps it clean, but very...

01:18:32.000 Imposing.

01:18:33.000 Very hot, yeah.

01:18:33.000 You can use it on television.

01:18:34.000 Oh, so great, you know.

01:18:36.000 How about when he wore the El Chapo shirt? 0.85

01:18:38.000 Oh, how crazy is he?

01:18:40.000 Who does that?

01:18:41.000 But you see, but he gets in everybody's head.

01:18:43.000 That's why he beat Aldo.

01:18:46.000 You could tell.

01:18:47.000 You could simply tell.

01:18:48.000 Everybody could say, oh, no, I'm used to that.

01:18:50.000 I grew up on the streets.

01:18:52.000 Rafael Dos Anjos says that also.

01:18:54.000 I say, eventually, it's going to come through.

01:18:56.000 You know, you've got to start doing something back.

01:18:59.000 You know, there's a few fun things that you always can do.

01:19:00.000 Dos Anjos...

01:19:01.000 It's not engaging him.

01:19:03.000 I like the way Dos Anjos is handling it.

01:19:04.000 He's just letting him talk, and he's like, when we fight, this will not matter.

01:19:08.000 He's just solid and stoic.

01:19:10.000 I think he's also learning the lesson of how Aldo sort of got rattled by it, and he's not going to get rattled.

01:19:16.000 I think Dos Anjos is a different guy.

01:19:19.000 Look at this.

01:19:19.000 He's even doing the Chapo pose.

01:19:22.000 Chapo was shaking hands with Sean Penn in that picture. 1.00

01:19:25.000 He's so fucking crazy. 0.99

01:19:27.000 I love him. 0.99

01:19:28.000 God, that guy's fucking awesome. 0.94

01:19:30.000 He's hilarious. 0.99

01:19:31.000 And he can fucking fight. 0.99

01:19:33.000 And he can fight. 1.00

01:19:34.000 Great reflexes.

01:19:35.000 I mean, his timing is really good.

01:19:37.000 He's using his reach really well.

01:19:38.000 And the way Faraz Zahabi described his left hands.

01:19:41.000 Faraz Zahabi, by the way, did an amazing breakdown.

01:19:43.000 If you're listening to this, go to YouTube.

01:19:46.000 Faraz Zahabi, who, in my mind, is one of the true great masters of MMA training.

01:19:51.000 He did an amazing breakdown of this fight.

01:19:54.000 But the way he describes Conor, he's like he's got the touch of death in that left hand.

01:19:58.000 And it's true. 0.56

01:19:59.000 He just lights guys up with that left hand.

01:20:01.000 Plus, it's laser-guided, you know?

01:20:03.000 It's on target.

01:20:04.000 It's not just, he just doesn't hit the head.

01:20:06.000 He won't hit your jaw.

01:20:07.000 Yeah, he's so accurate.

01:20:08.000 Great timing.

01:20:09.000 So accurate and so beautiful with his footwork.

01:20:12.000 The way he slid out of the way of Aldo's advance and just dropped that left hand in.

01:20:16.000 But, you know, RDA, this guy, you know, in the beginning, I go, he's always under the radar, right?

01:20:23.000 And suddenly, boom, he's there, and he's just beating everybody.

01:20:26.000 I mean, Cerrone, I never expected that. 0.98

01:20:29.000 He's a monster. 0.98

01:20:30.000 Yeah, he really is. 0.90

01:20:31.000 Well, a lot of what's going on, too, is his conditioning is off the charts. 0.87

01:20:34.000 He's working with Nick Kurson, who's one of the disciples of Marv Marinovich, and they've got him doing these crazy, explosive plyometric drills and all these footwork drills, and if you've ever seen his training routine, you're realizing they got a fucking oxygen mask on him, 0.78

01:20:50.000 and he's throwing body shots on the bag.

01:20:52.000 It's all this incredible, brutal breakdown for strength and conditioning, so that he could really go five rounds like that.

01:21:00.000 There's no such thing as having enough stamina.

01:21:02.000 That's what I always tell everybody.

01:21:04.000 There's no such thing.

01:21:05.000 You got to go all the way.

01:21:06.000 That's why I trained so hard because I don't want to have that.

01:21:09.000 I had the experience in Thai boxing one time when I ran out of gas.

01:21:12.000 It's not fun.

01:21:13.000 And especially in longer rounds and with an opponent seeing, you know, he goes, is he getting tired?

01:21:20.000 Now they get wings.

01:21:22.000 You know, they turn it on and you're in a bad spot there.

01:21:25.000 It's the worst thing in the world to see an opponent notice that you're tired and he's not and he's coming after you and he starts dropping low kicks on you and punching you in the face and you can't do anything.

01:21:35.000 Your body's not cooperating.

01:21:37.000 And it gets worse because then your breathing starts going wrong.

01:21:41.000 The breathing pattern is not relaxed anymore.

01:21:43.000 You have to start flexing because the punches are coming.

01:21:46.000 It'll take your stamina even more away.

01:21:48.000 Stamina is a weapon.

01:21:49.000 Stamina is a weapon.

01:21:50.000 It really is.

01:21:51.000 I mean look at Nick Diaz who is a guy who fought So many guys and outworked them.

01:21:56.000 I mean the Frank Shamrock fight is a perfect example of that fight.

01:21:59.000 He just kept popping them with punches, like 50% punches, but he's hitting them and he can't breathe.

01:22:05.000 Because when a person is punching you, even if they're punching you and it's not full blast, you're still tightening up.

01:22:10.000 So you don't get a chance to breathe, and Nick Diaz just doesn't get tired.

01:22:13.000 He does ultramarathons. 0.99

01:22:14.000 The fucking guy swam from Alcatraz twice. 0.99

01:22:18.000 He's in incredible shape. 1.00

01:22:20.000 He's done triathlons.

01:22:21.000 I don't know if he's done ultramarathons.

01:22:22.000 He'll probably take that back. 0.99

01:22:23.000 But swimming from Alcatraz is a fucking crazy endeavor. 0.99

01:22:27.000 And he's done it twice. 0.95

01:22:28.000 Well, Pettis, for instance, I thought he was never going to lose, and the only times he was losing was against guys with great stamina, you know, Clay Guida and an RDA, who just keep pushing the fight.

01:22:38.000 Yeah, with grappling.

01:22:40.000 Grappling with Guida.

01:22:41.000 Yeah, I think physically, Pettis is not strong enough for those guys.

01:22:46.000 Guys like Dos Anjos that just put it to him, or Eddie Alvarez who just put it to him.

01:22:50.000 They turn it into one of those grueling wrestling matches. 0.86

01:22:53.000 I think his takedown defense is pretty good, and I think his grappling is not bad.

01:22:57.000 He won the title with an armbar against Spencer Henderson.

01:23:00.000 But I just think physically, when it comes to these grueling exchanges, I just don't know if he's physically strong enough to fight that kind of fight with Lega Dos Anjos.

01:23:08.000 Or even Eddie Alvarez in that fight.

01:23:10.000 Yeah, well, footwork again.

01:23:12.000 He's going to need a lot of footwork.

01:23:14.000 Like a Marais.

01:23:15.000 He stops takedowns.

01:23:16.000 Well, he doesn't even stop and just moves out of the way.

01:23:19.000 Moves out of the way and lights guys up, too.

01:23:21.000 And his power, too.

01:23:22.000 That's a big thing.

01:23:22.000 And Pettis has a lot of power, too.

01:23:24.000 I mean, I'm not counting Pettis out.

01:23:25.000 Pettis could easily come back and win the title again. 0.81

01:23:28.000 I mean, he's a monster.

01:23:29.000 I never expected him to lose. 0.94

01:23:31.000 I thought, because he's this complete package.

01:23:33.000 Here we see a great striker, great submissions, takedown defense.

01:23:37.000 I go, okay, this is the guy.

01:23:38.000 Put him on the weedy box.

01:23:40.000 He put away Cerrone even better and more impressive than Dos Anjos.

01:23:44.000 Yeah, that was the craziest thing.

01:23:45.000 Dos Anjos, he hurt Cerrone and battered him up against the cage, but I thought the stoppage was so weird because he looked at the referee and he's telling the referee to stop the fight and Dos Anjos has Cerrone, Cerrone's turtled up and he's still covering up.

01:23:57.000 I don't know when a fight should be stopped in that situation.

01:24:01.000 When a guy gets hurt to the body, he's obviously hurt, but Dos Anjos is hitting him and Cowboy's covering up.

01:24:08.000 When do you stop a fight?

01:24:10.000 If a guy's covering up and you're hitting his arms and he's trying to get back up to his feet, when does a fight get stopped?

01:24:15.000 When is it okay?

01:24:16.000 Because some referees wouldn't have stopped the fight. 0.61

01:24:19.000 Here's a perfect example.

01:24:21.000 Chris Weidman versus Luke Rockhold.

01:24:23.000 When Luke Rockhold got on top of Chris Weidman at the end of the round and was beating the fuck out of him, I was saying they should stop that fight.

01:24:29.000 He's not defending himself.

01:24:31.000 But that's not the same as the Cowboy Cerrone-Dos Angeles fight.

01:24:36.000 I'm like, man, that was a little bit of a more controversial stoppage.

01:24:39.000 Yeah, because it's still under the defense.

01:24:40.000 Yeah.

01:24:41.000 No, they shouldn't stop.

01:24:42.000 What else is he going to do?

01:24:44.000 If he doesn't cover up, he's going to get hit with a punch.

01:24:48.000 So he's got to cover up.

01:24:49.000 And when you're covering up and the guy's boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, there's not a lot you can do.

01:24:53.000 Because you've got to put your hand down to get up.

01:24:54.000 And if you put your hand down to get up, you're going to get tagged.

01:24:56.000 Yep.

01:24:57.000 So it's almost like a guy can have a fight stopped without you being in real trouble.

01:25:04.000 Although Cowboy was certainly in trouble.

01:25:05.000 But it's a weird little kind of a...

01:25:08.000 It's so subjective.

01:25:10.000 It's up to the referee to decide.

01:25:12.000 It's a very hard decision.

01:25:13.000 That's why I don't want to be a referee.

01:25:14.000 It's a very hard...

01:25:15.000 It's a worse job.

01:25:16.000 It really is.

01:25:17.000 It's never good.

01:25:18.000 You're never great.

01:25:18.000 But you're there for the safety of the fighters.

01:25:20.000 If they don't, you know, they're on the ground, they don't defend them, I say stop right away.

01:25:23.000 If they really, because they don't, that's why they're doing it.

01:25:26.000 Right.

01:25:26.000 I mean, you know how, like a big John, he tells me, and I've seen him doing it against the fighters in the dressing room, he'll tell them, do not come to me after the fight, that if you lay on the ground and a guy hits you and you're just bugging up, I will stop the fight.

01:25:39.000 Yeah.

01:25:40.000 And he says it two or three times.

01:25:42.000 Do not come to me after the fight and complain about it, because you know right now, improve your position.

01:25:47.000 And sometimes you don't see that.

01:25:51.000 Also with, for instance, guillotine attempts, or you see guys who defend the guillotine, like a standing still.

01:25:58.000 And I go, don't defend the guillotine, you know, go for position.

01:26:01.000 Make sure that you get close, you hold a hand, make sure he doesn't jump guard, because if you defend, well, look at Pat Miletic against Hansel Gracie in the IFL. He's defending the choke, and he jumps guard.

01:26:13.000 Now he's got him.

01:26:14.000 Ronda Rousey against Karmouche. 0.80

01:26:16.000 You know, she's got a crazy crank on her head. 1.00

01:26:19.000 And instead of defending, people say, oh, defend, defend. 0.98

01:26:22.000 No, no, she didn't.

01:26:23.000 She's in position.

01:26:24.000 She grabbed the foot, feet, unlocked the feet, and she got out.

01:26:27.000 She took a chance.

01:26:28.000 She took a chance.

01:26:29.000 And that's what people should do.

01:26:30.000 On the ground also, they said to me, yeah, but if they hit you, I said, escape.

01:26:34.000 Buck up, move to this.

01:26:35.000 If you buck up, they're gonna have to look for balance.

01:26:37.000 Make sure they never sit on your chest.

01:26:39.000 Push him always to your belly. 0.99

01:26:40.000 If you can push him to your belly, you hold the knees and you push yourself upwards.

01:26:44.000 Same result, he's sitting on your belly. 0.82

01:26:46.000 But you gotta go, you gotta move.

01:26:47.000 How easy is it for you, if somebody mounts you to go to put him in at least a half guard?

01:26:53.000 Well, you got to train that.

01:26:54.000 It's real easy, right?

01:26:55.000 I think a lot of guys don't train off their back that much.

01:26:57.000 It's the craziest thing.

01:26:59.000 It drives me nuts.

01:26:59.000 Get them in the guard, man.

01:27:01.000 Mount position, it shouldn't even be happening.

01:27:03.000 Go to the side.

01:27:05.000 Mount position, when they can stop you, it's only when they stretch you out, they hook their feet, but then there's not a lot they can do.

01:27:12.000 Because you just stopped their arms.

01:27:13.000 Well, it's interesting when you see different levels of their game off their back, like Brian Ortega.

01:27:19.000 Have you been watching that guy fight? 0.99

01:27:21.000 Jesus fucking Christ, his triangles are good. 0.99

01:27:23.000 His guard game is so good, and he's one of those guys, he's like a gold standard for how to fight off your back. 0.99

01:27:30.000 When they get him on his back, he is just attacking, attacking.

01:27:34.000 You're not going to get him stagnant where he's just lying there waiting for the referee to stand him back up.

01:27:39.000 That's it.

01:27:39.000 And when you've got that kind of a ground game off your back, it's a totally new dimension for your opponents.

01:27:44.000 They're used to taking a guy down and maybe throwing some body punches. 1.00

01:27:48.000 With him, you're fucking defending. 0.98

01:27:49.000 Defending the whole time. 0.99

01:27:50.000 Legs are up on your neck, and you've got to try to posture up and get out of there.

01:27:54.000 That's the gold standard, and that's what everybody should aspire to, to have that kind of a dangerous ground game.

01:28:00.000 Yep, that's why I thought, for instance, Johnny Hendricks versus...

01:28:06.000 Wonderboy?

01:28:07.000 No, no, no.

01:28:09.000 Oh, my God.

01:28:10.000 How can I forget him?

01:28:11.000 Carlos Condit?

01:28:12.000 Carlos Condit, the national ball, I was going to say.

01:28:14.000 Yeah.

01:28:15.000 I mean, I thought Condit won that because he's constantly attacking on the ground, you know?

01:28:20.000 And if somebody's on top of you and he hits you once every time, that shouldn't count.

01:28:24.000 If the strike on the feet, if it...

01:28:27.000 If it goes to a decision and nobody gets really hurt, but the guy who's constantly attacking is going to win the fight, right?

01:28:33.000 Right.

01:28:33.000 Okay, so why doesn't that count on the ground?

01:28:35.000 Yeah, I agree.

01:28:36.000 Just because the guy's on top doesn't mean he's winning.

01:28:38.000 No.

01:28:38.000 How about the fact that that's how you won the title versus Kevin Randeman?

01:28:41.000 Oh, yeah.

01:28:42.000 Randeman took you down.

01:28:43.000 That was not even with submission attempts.

01:28:45.000 Exactly.

01:28:45.000 But like, man, there was...

01:28:47.000 Well, Randeman took you down and you just kept attacking from your back.

01:28:50.000 Yeah, that's what McCarthy said later, I didn't put him back on the feet because Bas was working from his back.

01:28:55.000 That was the reason they didn't put us back on the feet.

01:28:57.000 But you know, if you have guys like Carlos Conant or what you saw a lot at Pride also, great groundwork and they're constantly attacking and then they get rewarded for that after the fight.

01:29:05.000 They actually win the fight.

01:29:07.000 And it should be.

01:29:08.000 Because people go, yeah, but the defense is also...

01:29:10.000 No, no, it's not about the defense.

01:29:12.000 Same as the strike.

01:29:13.000 It's not about that.

01:29:14.000 You know, it's about the guy who takes the chances.

01:29:16.000 Because we all know if you have somebody in the guard, you go for an anbar, there's a high possibility he's going to be in side mount now.

01:29:21.000 That's the worst position for you.

01:29:22.000 So you're taking risks.

01:29:24.000 And if you're willing to take those risks, they should be...

01:29:27.000 Rewarded.

01:29:27.000 Well, I also like pride.

01:29:29.000 I like that 10-minute first round.

01:29:30.000 That was good, huh?

01:29:31.000 Makes it more strategical.

01:29:33.000 Yeah.

01:29:33.000 You really can't burn out in the beginning.

01:29:35.000 That was the thing with pancreas in the beginning, with 30-minute fights. 0.58

01:29:37.000 That's why the R's came on my hand, because that means rustig, which is relax, because I was such a hothead in Thai boxing.

01:29:45.000 Like, somebody hits me, oh, dude, my...

01:29:48.000 I just knock them out.

01:29:49.000 And I go, man, these Japanese guys are known for being tough. 1.00

01:29:52.000 If this happens the first three minutes, I got 27 more minutes to go.

01:29:56.000 If I'm empty, that's not a good thing.

01:29:59.000 So stay calm, stay calm.

01:30:00.000 You start being more strategical.

01:30:02.000 So pancreas, was there any rounds or was it just 30 minutes?

01:30:06.000 At the end.

01:30:07.000 In the end, there were a few, like the undercard were 10-minute fights, but most of the time everything was 15 minutes, and the title fights in the end was 30. In the beginning, the first year and a half, it was all 30 minutes.

01:30:19.000 30 minutes, one round.

01:30:20.000 Wow.

01:30:20.000 Yeah.

01:30:21.000 That's a real strategic fight.

01:30:24.000 I'm a fan of that, though.

01:30:25.000 I like that.

01:30:25.000 I like that, too.

01:30:26.000 But, you know, and again, if you look at some UFC fights where they just lay, lay, lay, then, you know, in the old days, you remember, without the stand-ups, yeah, then it becomes kind of boring.

01:30:36.000 But that was one of the things when I moved to Pancras.

01:30:39.000 I always tell this story, but when I saw my opponent, he was 45 pounds heavier.

01:30:44.000 And I asked when the weigh-in was.

01:30:46.000 He says, there's no weigh-in.

01:30:47.000 Everybody fights everybody.

01:30:48.000 I go, oh, that's great.

01:30:49.000 Nice.

01:30:50.000 I was just bluffing, of course.

01:30:52.000 And I go, okay, so how many rounds we got?

01:30:53.000 One round.

01:30:54.000 One round.

01:30:54.000 Awesome.

01:30:55.000 How many minutes?

01:30:55.000 30. I go, awesome.

01:30:57.000 Awesome.

01:30:57.000 And I look at my manager.

01:30:59.000 I go, dude, 30-minute fight?

01:31:01.000 Yeah.

01:31:02.000 45 more pounds than me?

01:31:04.000 As opposed to a three-minute kickboxing fight.

01:31:06.000 That's what I was thinking.

01:31:07.000 A three-minute round for kickboxing.

01:31:08.000 I came for kickboxing, yeah.

01:31:10.000 So yeah, that opened my eyes a little bit there.

01:31:12.000 And you become more strategical.

01:31:14.000 That's a good thing.

01:31:15.000 Well, it's also good for grapplers when they work, like say if you have a five-minute fight or a five-minute round, and you work for four minutes and 30 seconds to get the fight to the ground, you only have 30 seconds to try to secure a submission.

01:31:24.000 Yeah.

01:31:25.000 Whereas if you take a guy to the ground in a 10 minute fight and you're forming it in 30 seconds, now you have 5 minutes and 30 seconds to try to finish him.

01:31:32.000 Yeah.

01:31:32.000 Which is a lot of time.

01:31:33.000 Yeah, but you know, there's always the other side of the metal.

01:31:36.000 You know, you can say, well, they should have taken him down sooner.

01:31:39.000 Yeah.

01:31:40.000 Or these guys that say, yeah, but I just need more work on the ground.

01:31:43.000 Well, just go faster.

01:31:46.000 This is the game.

01:31:47.000 You have to adapt and not the other way around.

01:31:48.000 Yeah.

01:31:49.000 Well, you could definitely look at it that way.

01:31:51.000 What do you think about Fabricio Verdum returning against Kane?

01:31:55.000 I think it's going to be a great fight.

01:31:58.000 We know that stamina played a big factor.

01:32:02.000 But for Doom, man, he's only been on an arrow that's going straight up since Pride.

01:32:10.000 That fight that he lost against Alistair...

01:32:13.000 Really lose.

01:32:14.000 I think if you would count the punches and the kicks that Alistair get hit, because I was afraid at the time, because I was at Alistair's.

01:32:20.000 He was a big friend of mine at the time, and I go, ooh, because Verdum hit him more.

01:32:24.000 Connected more.

01:32:26.000 Well, Verdum blew his knee out, too, in that fight.

01:32:28.000 Yeah, see?

01:32:28.000 And Verdum's striking now with Cordero.

01:32:31.000 They're just working really well together.

01:32:33.000 Same with RDA and everybody there.

01:32:35.000 They're doing just a phenomenal job.

01:32:37.000 Rafael Cordero is just what a great striking coach that guy is.

01:32:40.000 He's done an amazing job.

01:32:41.000 Yeah, because you can talk to the guy.

01:32:43.000 They barbecue together.

01:32:45.000 You know, he's there in your best interest.

01:32:47.000 That's Dwayne Ludwig.

01:32:49.000 Same guy.

01:32:51.000 The late Sean Tompkins.

01:32:52.000 All these guys there are all the way there.

01:32:54.000 I remember stories with Sean.

01:32:56.000 We would come home partying five, six in the morning.

01:32:59.000 He would go straight, if it was the day of the weigh-in, straight to the...

01:33:03.000 Sona with the guys, helping them focus mids if they want to lose.

01:33:07.000 He never, ever missed a beat.

01:33:09.000 A lot of trainers have that, but there's a whole bunch of trainers who don't have that.

01:33:16.000 You've got to be completely obsessed to be a great trainer.

01:33:19.000 That's what makes Ludwig so good.

01:33:20.000 He's completely obsessed.

01:33:23.000 It's the same with a fighter.

01:33:25.000 It's the same with anything.

01:33:25.000 If you're not completely obsessed, you're just not going to reach your potential.

01:33:29.000 That's it.

01:33:29.000 You need to like it also.

01:33:31.000 I was talking about that yesterday.

01:33:33.000 You can have all the talent if you don't like it.

01:33:35.000 If you hear fighters, which blows my mind always when I hear Quentin, for instance, says, I hate training.

01:33:41.000 And I go, wow, I love training.

01:33:44.000 I want to get tired.

01:33:46.000 I want to try new stuff.

01:33:47.000 I always loved it.

01:33:48.000 Till the end, when I got my tendonitis and everything started hurting really, really bad.

01:33:52.000 You know, then you can't even think straight anymore.

01:33:54.000 That's when I stopped.

01:33:56.000 But before that, I always loved it.

01:33:58.000 And if you love something, you know, same in school, when you were a kid.

01:34:01.000 You know, math, well, I don't know math, but you were good at the things that you liked.

01:34:05.000 Your biology, oh, I love biology.

01:34:07.000 Boom, ace.

01:34:08.000 You know, it's all the things that you like, you automatically do your best for it.

01:34:11.000 Simple.

01:34:12.000 Yeah, if you're a passionate person, if you're passionate about what you're pursuing, you're going to do better than a person who's just doing it as a job.

01:34:19.000 And Quentin has so much talent.

01:34:20.000 Unreal.

01:34:21.000 And unbelievable power.

01:34:22.000 He's got a fantastic chin.

01:34:24.000 Yeah, right away, Arona pops up, right?

01:34:26.000 Always, huh?

01:34:26.000 Oh my gosh.

01:34:27.000 Always.

01:34:28.000 When you talk about Quentin as the first.

01:34:29.000 And he arched even backwards.

01:34:31.000 Yeah.

01:34:31.000 He didn't go straight up.

01:34:32.000 He actually went a little further and then he slammed him.

01:34:35.000 That was the most spectacular slam KO in the history of MMA. Ricardo Arona had him locked up in a triangle and Quentin slammed him into oblivion and headbutted him too on the way down.

01:34:47.000 I mean inadvertent headbutt.

01:34:48.000 But slammed him and then ba-boom. 1.00

01:34:51.000 Then his head slammed into him too.

01:34:52.000 Oh my god.

01:34:53.000 That was a horrific fight.

01:34:56.000 Ricardo never recovered from that fight.

01:34:58.000 He was never the same.

01:34:59.000 Ricardo, I read a cool story about Kevin Rendon when he was talking.

01:35:02.000 I read it on SureDog that he said he just fought Kevin and he won.

01:35:06.000 He says, I was in the dressing room by myself in Japan.

01:35:09.000 There was nobody there.

01:35:10.000 And, you know, I was just taken in.

01:35:12.000 He said, because I just won the most important fight of my career.

01:35:15.000 And he said, suddenly he sees a shadow and he thinks it was Rendon.

01:35:18.000 So he automatically, he said, at that time, everybody was fighting.

01:35:21.000 It was before, after.

01:35:22.000 It didn't really matter.

01:35:23.000 It was this fighting thing.

01:35:25.000 And Rendellman came in and he thought there was going to be a fight.

01:35:27.000 And Rendellman walked up to him and said, Dude, great job!

01:35:30.000 Congratulations!

01:35:31.000 You know, you're awesome!

01:35:33.000 And that blew me away, he said.

01:35:35.000 Right away I saw the monster as a different person.

01:35:40.000 That's so hard now also with Rendellman.

01:35:42.000 You know him.

01:35:43.000 Everybody who knows him is such a good guy.

01:35:45.000 Yeah, he was a great guy.

01:35:47.000 He was a really friendly, happy-go-lucky guy.

01:35:50.000 It's so unfortunate.

01:35:51.000 You know, I don't know what happened with him.

01:35:54.000 What happened with Sean Tompkins?

01:35:56.000 How did Sean wind up dying?

01:35:57.000 You know, this was the saddest thing ever because when I went to the funeral, he was in the coffin.

01:36:05.000 I didn't want to see that.

01:36:06.000 I did that one time with a friend of mine and I didn't like that.

01:36:09.000 So I said, I don't want to do it.

01:36:10.000 And his mother, it was so sad, man.

01:36:12.000 She came to me crying and she said, he was in...

01:36:17.000 He was home, and that weekend, she was gonna tell him that he had to go to the doctor, because in the family, it runs in the family that they have enlarged hearts, and he needs to check that out.

01:36:27.000 And that was what was going down there.

01:36:29.000 There was no drugs, no nothing, because people started, of course, the conspiracy theories, they didn't find anything.

01:36:35.000 And the crazy thing was I talked the day before with Sean.

01:36:39.000 It was so weird, because then you guys announced it on USC, and it was, I go, whoa, Sean, so I started Googling.

01:36:46.000 But it was so weird.

01:36:48.000 He texted me something and I thought, for some reason I thought, oh, he wants to talk to me.

01:36:53.000 Because normally we would text.

01:36:54.000 So I picked up the phone and I called him.

01:36:56.000 And he was going out with Muscle Beach, one of our friends.

01:36:59.000 We called him Muscle Beach.

01:37:03.000 And Muscle Beach was drunk.

01:37:04.000 And he says, I can't leave a man behind.

01:37:06.000 I'm going to stay with him.

01:37:07.000 I'm going to make sure he's going to be okay.

01:37:09.000 Boom.

01:37:09.000 And he kept going, boss, boss.

01:37:11.000 And the problem that I was reading about didn't even come up.

01:37:14.000 We started talking about everything.

01:37:15.000 It was a great, great time.

01:37:16.000 He says, boss, I love you.

01:37:17.000 You know that.

01:37:18.000 I really love you.

01:37:19.000 And then finally when we hang up, he starts texting, you know...

01:37:22.000 That I love you.

01:37:24.000 The whole team Tompkins loves you.

01:37:26.000 It was really weird.

01:37:27.000 He never did that.

01:37:28.000 And the next day he passed away.

01:37:29.000 Wow.

01:37:30.000 So it was almost like he felt that it was going to happen.

01:37:33.000 Wow.

01:37:34.000 Yeah.

01:37:34.000 That's crazy.

01:37:35.000 That's crazy.

01:37:36.000 Yeah, he was another guy that was really loved by the guys that he trained.

01:37:41.000 Those relationships between trainers and students, trainers and fighters, they're so important.

01:37:46.000 You know, and it's so hard for a fighter to find the right trainer, the right trainer that fits their personality, someone who's technical, you know, someone who has also that emotional bond.

01:37:56.000 That's the thing, the 100% commitment.

01:37:59.000 That's the thing.

01:38:00.000 And being a fighter, it sounds cool, and that's why a lot of guys don't make it, because...

01:38:06.000 They only want to look cool.

01:38:08.000 You don't really fight foot to fight.

01:38:10.000 Once the fighters start fighting for money, don't do that.

01:38:15.000 Then it's going downhill.

01:38:17.000 Yeah, but I need a paycheck.

01:38:18.000 Then don't fight.

01:38:18.000 Find another job.

01:38:20.000 You need that commitment.

01:38:21.000 You need to be 100%.

01:38:22.000 And that's the same with the trainers.

01:38:23.000 You can't be off for a little bit because this guy is going to go in the ring or in the cage.

01:38:28.000 And you have to make sure he's going to stay safe.

01:38:31.000 Yeah, when you see a fighter that's only fighting for the paycheck, it very rarely works out.

01:38:36.000 Not at a championship level.

01:38:39.000 It might be okay at a journeyman level.

01:38:43.000 You might pull it off if you're tough and you're skilled.

01:38:46.000 But to beat the best guys, you have to be obsessed.

01:38:48.000 The best guys are obsessed.

01:38:50.000 Yeah, you want to be the best.

01:38:52.000 It's not about the payday.

01:38:53.000 I said, that will come if you are the best.

01:38:55.000 The payday will be better, but focus on getting good and fighting for yourself, I always say.

01:39:00.000 You know, don't put your family at number one spot.

01:39:02.000 I understand you want to do that, but you know, once you start, that means that you care, care, care.

01:39:07.000 It's a very...

01:39:09.000 How do you say it?

01:39:10.000 It's selfish.

01:39:12.000 It should be selfish.

01:39:13.000 You should be...

01:39:14.000 I fight for me.

01:39:16.000 I don't care.

01:39:17.000 The way I explain it to my students when they, for instance, they're nervous.

01:39:22.000 I say, okay, let's take a step back.

01:39:25.000 Imagine your opponent now and you go in a room, they lock the room, and you guys are going to compete against each other.

01:39:31.000 Whoever wins, doesn't matter who wins, when the door opens, you both of you are not going to say who won or lost.

01:39:36.000 Nobody's going to say, do you really care if you lose at that moment?

01:39:40.000 And he goes like, no, yeah, because he's just a better fighter, right?

01:39:45.000 I said, so why do you care?

01:39:47.000 And then they start realizing, ah, it's because the people.

01:39:50.000 Oh, but he might think this, and he might think this.

01:39:53.000 And that's why I always say, fight for yourself.

01:39:57.000 If you lose, you give it your all.

01:39:59.000 You are always a winner.

01:40:00.000 It doesn't matter.

01:40:01.000 You know what bad is?

01:40:03.000 Not going all the way, not using all your potential, and then lose because you didn't do that.

01:40:07.000 That's something that after a fight you're going to say, oh...

01:40:10.000 Man, I could have gone harder.

01:40:11.000 So why didn't you?

01:40:12.000 Just leave it all out there.

01:40:14.000 And if you leave it all out there, there's no excuses.

01:40:16.000 And every other fighter will really enjoy you.

01:40:19.000 Winning or losing.

01:40:20.000 How many fighters you have who never became a champion, but I hear all the other fighters talking about them.

01:40:26.000 Say, oh, you fight him?

01:40:27.000 Oh, dude, really? 0.99

01:40:28.000 That guy's crazy. 0.96

01:40:29.000 Yeah, you better prepare now. 0.99

01:40:31.000 Because it's going to be a nightmare to fight that guy.

01:40:33.000 You see, that's what I think is the most important.

01:40:36.000 If your peers like it, the way you fight...

01:40:40.000 You're good.

01:40:40.000 You can't really lose.

01:40:41.000 Yeah, like a guy like Chuck Liddell, where he has that incredible fan base because he always fought with everything he had.

01:40:49.000 And whether he lost by knockout or won by knockout, people still loved him.

01:40:54.000 That's it.

01:40:55.000 Didn't lose a fan.

01:40:56.000 I always use Chuck as an example.

01:40:58.000 And that's what every fan...

01:41:00.000 And I tell my students, look at Chuck Liddell.

01:41:02.000 I want you to be like that.

01:41:04.000 Leave it out there.

01:41:05.000 You know?

01:41:05.000 I just want you to listen a little bit more because if I would get in Chuck's head, you know, as soon as Chuck hits somebody, that's the same with Benji Raddick.

01:41:13.000 They have one vision and that's the knockout.

01:41:17.000 And they forget about the rest.

01:41:18.000 Defense.

01:41:19.000 Defense.

01:41:20.000 And I say, as soon as you hit somebody, step back.

01:41:22.000 You're going to have some time.

01:41:23.000 Don't worry.

01:41:24.000 But you just hit the head.

01:41:25.000 Okay, what is he going to protect now?

01:41:26.000 The head. 0.73

01:41:27.000 Go for the body. 0.95

01:41:28.000 Do a cross-hoo-cross to the body.

01:41:30.000 Nobody does that.

01:41:31.000 But do it as hard as you can.

01:41:32.000 Cross-hoo-cross and then a left hook to the head. 1.00

01:41:35.000 Ba, ba, ba, boom. 0.84

01:41:36.000 Suddenly there's a left hook to the head.

01:41:37.000 If you do the cross hook cross as hard as you can, you will force them to block it, which will open up for the left hook to the head.

01:41:45.000 Same as with the body, body, head.

01:41:47.000 You know, body, body, head.

01:41:48.000 And they go, ba, ba, boom.

01:41:49.000 Ba, ba, boom.

01:41:50.000 I say, yeah, it won't work like that.

01:41:52.000 You see a Rico Verhoeven, who does his first mixed martial arts fight, body, Boom!

01:41:57.000 Body, boom! 0.98

01:41:58.000 And then the head. 0.92

01:41:59.000 Now, with the first two body shots, if this guy doesn't block him, he's going to get knocked out to the body.

01:42:04.000 So now he respects your power.

01:42:05.000 That's what Mike Tyson did. 1.00

01:42:07.000 Spleen wide uppercut.

01:42:08.000 He hits you so hard in the spleen that the second time when he loads up, he thinks...

01:42:13.000 He thinks it's going to be the same punch, but then he changes the angle to an uppercut, and his defense is here for the spleen shot.

01:42:19.000 If you do it powerful and hard, it will work.

01:42:22.000 But if you do a body, body, head, body, body, you know, it's not going to work.

01:42:26.000 Make everything count.

01:42:27.000 Yeah, a lot of guys are trying to conserve their energy.

01:42:30.000 Yeah, but...

01:42:31.000 I did after a workout.

01:42:33.000 I would put a bag on the ground and I would 30 minutes just go.

01:42:37.000 Punching on the back on the ground, rolling in the guard, keeping hitting.

01:42:41.000 You don't get tired from that.

01:42:42.000 Come on, guys.

01:42:43.000 You don't really get tired.

01:42:44.000 There's nothing there.

01:42:45.000 You can just go.

01:42:46.000 What is he going to do if he's on his back? 0.86

01:42:48.000 He's going to hit you back.

01:42:49.000 He's not going to hit you back.

01:42:50.000 You got to watch out for submissions, but that's not going to get you in trouble with your stamina.

01:42:56.000 Just go! 0.61

01:42:57.000 Just go! 0.61

01:42:57.000 Do you think now, like looking back, when you have these tendonitis and all these other issues, were you too tough for your body? 0.61

01:43:03.000 Is that what it is?

01:43:04.000 No.

01:43:05.000 What I think is that because I was so sick as a kid that they overflowed me with cortisones.

01:43:11.000 I had so many cortisones.

01:43:12.000 I believe it was like 46 pills a day I took.

01:43:17.000 I had really bad...

01:43:19.000 Skin disease, asthma.

01:43:21.000 So I had a lot of stuff that I took for that.

01:43:24.000 And the tests they did on me.

01:43:26.000 I mean, every week I had to go get 20 shots, 10 shots in each arm.

01:43:30.000 And what they would do, they would inject a little tiny bit of where you were allergic for.

01:43:35.000 And then hopefully, it's like the flu vaccine, hopefully the body finds a way to counterattack that.

01:43:41.000 But every time when they do that, I'll be sick.

01:43:43.000 So I needed to recoup from that the whole time.

01:43:46.000 And I think eventually the cortisones, because they're really bad for the bones and the tendons, I think the cortisones really got my tendonitis.

01:43:54.000 That's the reason.

01:43:54.000 Oh, wow.

01:43:56.000 That's interesting.

01:43:57.000 I never heard that before.

01:43:58.000 I never heard of anybody having that many shots as a kid and then going on to be a world championship fighter.

01:44:04.000 Me neither.

01:44:06.000 The craziest thing is that when I was young I did track and field and I did it at a pretty high level already because I wanted to be the next Bruce Jenner at the time.

01:44:15.000 He was my hero.

01:44:16.000 That's how old I was.

01:44:18.000 He was the guy.

01:44:19.000 The decathlon guy.

01:44:20.000 That's what I wanted to do.

01:44:21.000 And I remember in the end every time with Javelin I already had that tendonitis.

01:44:27.000 And I started recognizing that and I don't know why it stayed away my entire career and came back only at the end.

01:44:32.000 It's got to be the gods of God telling me, okay, it's good.

01:44:35.000 You become a fighter.

01:44:37.000 But for some reason, at the end, it came back.

01:44:40.000 But I remember the pain.

01:44:44.000 Do you have a desire to train championship-level fighters?

01:44:48.000 You're talking about what guys don't do correctly and what you would like to see them do.

01:44:53.000 Do you have this desire to get involved with someone who's really trying to make a run at a title?

01:44:59.000 No, you know, I enjoy things like, for instance, Rico Verhoeven came in last week.

01:45:04.000 Love that guy.

01:45:04.000 You know, yeah, because he's an athlete, not just a martial artist.

01:45:07.000 Glory heavyweight champion.

01:45:08.000 Glory heavyweight champion.

01:45:09.000 Amazing kickboxer.

01:45:10.000 So when he said he was going to do MMA, I sent him an email right away.

01:45:13.000 I said, listen, Rico...

01:45:15.000 Come to me.

01:45:16.000 Give me two hours of my time.

01:45:19.000 I'll show you things that are going to be very, very helpful for you.

01:45:21.000 I'm not looking to be a coach because I don't have the time for that.

01:45:24.000 I'm way too busy for that.

01:45:25.000 But I can get you in two hours.

01:45:26.000 I can get you a lot of information.

01:45:28.000 Or like, for instance, John Jones, a while back I was interviewing him and then he said right away, I was in Albuquerque.

01:45:33.000 What are you going to do after this?

01:45:36.000 I said to my hotel, I said, man, do you want to train me?

01:45:38.000 You see, those are guys who really want to learn.

01:45:39.000 And then once you start learning and these guys listen, And then suddenly they start being more explosive with kicking and punching, they go like, dude, this is crazy.

01:45:47.000 You know, like sound effects, I do a lot.

01:45:50.000 At high pitch sound effects.

01:45:52.000 If you see somebody, for instance, if you do the focus mitts or you hit a bag, you go, one, two, three, four, like that punch.

01:45:59.000 And so if you just stop and you go, in your mind you go, just do that.

01:46:04.000 And then just by doing that, your body automatically will adapt and will get more explosive.

01:46:10.000 And he realized that.

01:46:11.000 He goes, wow.

01:46:12.000 And the next week or two weeks later, we had Greg Jackson on the show.

01:46:16.000 And Greg tells me, he says, man, what...

01:46:19.000 What have you been teaching?

01:46:21.000 I said, what do you mean?

01:46:22.000 He says, everybody makes these crazy sound effects.

01:46:25.000 I said, do they hit faster and harder?

01:46:27.000 And he goes, yeah.

01:46:28.000 I said, so be it.

01:46:30.000 You know, so it really works to get in people's heads.

01:46:33.000 Yeah.

01:46:33.000 And then if you have an athlete like Jones who will listen to you, yeah, that's gold.

01:46:41.000 But if a guy like that came to you, if a guy like that came to you and said, listen, boss, I want you to train me, is that something you would be interested in doing?

01:46:49.000 Yeah, it's going to be hard.

01:46:51.000 It depends.

01:46:51.000 You know, the division, the new podcast, the gym.

01:46:55.000 I mean, there's so much stuff, the World Series of Fighting, that I suddenly cannot do because then we've got to have the 100% commitment.

01:47:02.000 I like a lot because I'm a very basic guy.

01:47:06.000 Everything is the basics with me because everybody forgets the basics.

01:47:10.000 So most of the time when somebody comes out, like Tim Sylvia, a while ago he came to my gym and he threw the left hook wrong and I tell him, I said, man, this can be way harder and he starts learning to throw the hook without loading up and he won his fight in 15 seconds with the left hook.

01:47:25.000 He goes, dude, this is crazy, it works.

01:47:26.000 That I enjoy.

01:47:27.000 To give him an hour of time and show them what they do wrong And then if they actually listen to it, they realize, wait a minute, I got more power.

01:47:36.000 You know, I don't try to change the style.

01:47:38.000 I just show them how you get maximum power.

01:47:41.000 And if you mix that up between your styles, that's up to you.

01:47:43.000 But I see you have this incredible passion about this.

01:47:46.000 Oh yeah, I love it.

01:47:47.000 About improving guys and about working on technique.

01:47:48.000 That's why I'm curious.

01:47:50.000 Have you ever thought about just going into training?

01:47:53.000 Yeah.

01:47:54.000 Just too busy?

01:47:55.000 Too busy, but also, I don't know anymore, but a lot of guys that you do over the years, you invest a lot of time in.

01:48:03.000 And it doesn't work out.

01:48:04.000 It doesn't work out or they get a better deal somewhere else and they just leave you.

01:48:08.000 And you see this with a lot of fighters, you know, and trainers.

01:48:11.000 Finally, the trainer has something or a manager and then they just kick him to the side because I'm going to save 10% here.

01:48:18.000 But then again, those guys, most of the time you see him losing.

01:48:23.000 Because you broke the winning combination.

01:48:26.000 If you have something, my stretching routine, and everybody always says, please post it because you always talk about this.

01:48:31.000 My stretching routine is the same as it was when I started in 93. Well, that's probably even before my karate.

01:48:37.000 And they say, you never change that.

01:48:39.000 I say, no, I never change that.

01:48:40.000 Why wouldn't you do more?

01:48:42.000 Actually, because with that stretching routine, I never had a problem.

01:48:44.000 Why would I change it?

01:48:45.000 It never gave me a problem in training.

01:48:48.000 You see?

01:48:48.000 So now if I start adding things or subtracting things and suddenly I get injured, it's just my own fault.

01:48:52.000 I had a winning combination.

01:48:53.000 It always helped me.

01:48:54.000 Let's not break that.

01:48:56.000 Let's keep it the same.

01:48:57.000 And that's with everything.

01:48:59.000 Yeah, it's just, I know that you have your gym in Thousand Oaks.

01:49:03.000 Yep.

01:49:03.000 You know, what's it called?

01:49:04.000 The Westlake Village, Bas Routens Elite MMA. And it's mostly recreational people, is that what it is?

01:49:10.000 That's it, yeah.

01:49:11.000 Tuesdays, Thursdays, I'm there at 6 o'clock.

01:49:13.000 What kind of class do you teach up there?

01:49:17.000 Tuesdays is...

01:49:18.000 Mostly striking, only striking on Thursdays, I start with ground, but only like for 20 minutes because people want to work out.

01:49:25.000 Right.

01:49:25.000 Like the fighter, if I do fight classes with the fighters, yeah, we do a lot of ground with escapes and reversals.

01:49:30.000 I always start like that.

01:49:31.000 That's how I trained.

01:49:32.000 I never started on my knees with grappling.

01:49:35.000 I always lay on my back and I tell my partner, you can take any position you want.

01:49:39.000 That's so important.

01:49:41.000 It's the most important thing for a striker.

01:49:43.000 Put yourself in a bad spot.

01:49:43.000 Yeah.

01:49:44.000 Put yourself in a bad spot and figure out how to be comfortable in those bad spots and work out of them all the time.

01:49:48.000 That's it.

01:49:49.000 You know, and with basics, I had a student one time coming over to me after class, and he said, Bosch, you know what's funny?

01:49:55.000 I said, tell me.

01:49:56.000 He says, I've been working here now for three years, and you're teaching the same stuff.

01:50:01.000 I said, yeah, that is funny.

01:50:02.000 I said, you want to hear something more funny?

01:50:04.000 And he goes, yeah.

01:50:05.000 I said, you're still not doing it.

01:50:08.000 And the reason I'm doing this is because of people like you.

01:50:11.000 Because you guys don't listen.

01:50:12.000 That's funny.

01:50:13.000 Look around.

01:50:13.000 Yeah, they don't.

01:50:14.000 They don't do it.

01:50:15.000 Everybody forgets the basics.

01:50:16.000 They all want to do the spinning backies to the head and the back fists and the crazy elbows and doing that. 0.75

01:50:20.000 Forget about basic stuff.

01:50:22.000 A simple one-two.

01:50:23.000 How many times in boxing you see a knockout?

01:50:26.000 Highest level on the planet.

01:50:28.000 A one-two will do the trick.

01:50:29.000 It's just the timing and when you throw it.

01:50:32.000 The timing, the efficiency of the technique and having it down where you own it.

01:50:35.000 Yep, that's it.

01:50:36.000 Yeah.

01:50:37.000 So, you're enjoying teaching.

01:50:39.000 You enjoy teaching a couple times a week.

01:50:42.000 You enjoy doing that.

01:50:43.000 Yeah, that's why I'm doing it.

01:50:44.000 And your striking class, are guys sparring in there, or are they mostly just working on technique?

01:50:48.000 It's all technique, and my classes, you go, like, you see girls that I have in my class, when I strike the double left, double right, I can tell them any combination, and people who are watching, they go like, whoa, what is this?

01:50:58.000 But they've been with me for a while, and they're very technical.

01:51:01.000 And they do really well with the striking.

01:51:04.000 Like yesterday, again, they were laughing about it.

01:51:07.000 These two girls always work together. 1.00

01:51:09.000 Laura and Dana, they're really good.

01:51:11.000 They're probably going to listen to this also.

01:51:12.000 But I said, listen, everybody throws a low kick at the end.

01:51:15.000 For instance, a combination with a low kick.

01:51:17.000 But once you do that in a class, the low kick, they have their hands always down.

01:51:21.000 So I let them do it to me, that combination.

01:51:23.000 And then just before they make the low kick, I stretch my hand in front of the face.

01:51:26.000 And I say, I want everybody to do this because I just walked around, I said, and there were only three people from the 22 or 24 people there are who are doing it.

01:51:36.000 Just keep your hands up.

01:51:37.000 You don't have to hit them.

01:51:38.000 Just make them be aware that it could be a punch.

01:51:41.000 Keep your hands up.

01:51:43.000 And I walked over and they said, were we one of the three?

01:51:45.000 I said, you know you were one of the three.

01:51:48.000 Because you guys are always doing it.

01:51:49.000 You see, it's just a habit.

01:51:51.000 Make a good habit and don't lose the habit.

01:51:53.000 But unfortunately, a lot of guys lose it.

01:51:56.000 Now, what is this podcast you're doing with Morrow?

01:51:58.000 I mean, that was one of the reasons why you guys wanted to come in here together.

01:52:01.000 And like you said, unfortunately, Morrow got sick.

01:52:03.000 But you guys are doing a podcast together.

01:52:04.000 We're doing a podcast, the Ruten and Ronello.

01:52:07.000 It's called Ruten and Ronello.

01:52:09.000 And it's on iTunes, SoundCloud.

01:52:10.000 It's everywhere.

01:52:11.000 It's a really fun...

01:52:13.000 People have no clue who Mauro really is.

01:52:16.000 You know, they start now because that big piece on Sherdock, you know, he's bipolar, you know, and he goes up and down.

01:52:22.000 But the guy is a genius.

01:52:24.000 Like, there's no prompters, no nothing.

01:52:26.000 He just shoots.

01:52:27.000 Like, Kenny Rice, for instance.

01:52:29.000 Same...

01:52:29.000 You know, they have a brain...

01:52:31.000 You can ask him about a horse in 1989 and he will know in the name of this.

01:52:36.000 That's it with Mauro.

01:52:37.000 And I told you the story before here with the pro wrestling, the gig that he now has, and the people are raving about him everywhere.

01:52:45.000 Even the pro wrestlers say, you're the best guy I ever had.

01:52:49.000 And I told...

01:52:50.000 AXS TV, once they hired Mauro and George Burnett to do the Pro Wrestling, New Japan Pro Wrestling on AXS TV, I told them, I said, you watch.

01:53:00.000 Mauro's going to work for the WWE. After they hear him doing this, he's going to get a job.

01:53:05.000 Mark my words.

01:53:06.000 Well, he's doing everything now.

01:53:07.000 He's not just doing that.

01:53:08.000 He's doing Showtime boxing.

01:53:10.000 He did a bunch of glory fights.

01:53:12.000 Oh, this is your battle.

01:53:13.000 This is our landing page.

01:53:14.000 Beautiful.

01:53:15.000 Yeah.

01:53:16.000 Root and Ranallo.

01:53:17.000 How many episodes have you guys done so far?

01:53:19.000 Seven tomorrow.

01:53:20.000 Tomorrow's the seventh, and tomorrow is dedicated to Kevin.

01:53:23.000 Kevin Rennelman.

01:53:24.000 We're going to have his wife on. 1.00

01:53:26.000 Mark Coleman on.

01:53:27.000 And we're going to talk about his life and all the funny things.

01:53:31.000 I mean, I got such crazy stories with Kevin.

01:53:33.000 I mean, I went to his wedding with my whole family and it was so my family destroyed.

01:53:39.000 I mean, they want to go with us to the funeral.

01:53:41.000 Everything was...

01:53:43.000 It was so sad.

01:53:44.000 The next day after the wedding, we were all at the pool, people laying there, a little hungover, and then suddenly there was a volleyball net, and somebody started to play volley, and all these competitive guys there.

01:53:56.000 Suddenly there's big teams on each side with the kids, and we're going to town, and everybody's waterfalling.

01:54:03.000 It was such a good time.

01:54:04.000 We had such a great time, and then a thing like this happens.

01:54:09.000 It's really upsetting.

01:54:11.000 It is.

01:54:12.000 Yep.

01:54:12.000 It is.

01:54:12.000 He truly was a great guy.

01:54:14.000 I mean, all my interactions with him where he's always laughing and smiling and hugging people.

01:54:18.000 And I remember I ran into Kevin once.

01:54:20.000 We were at the fights.

01:54:22.000 It was a smaller organization.

01:54:24.000 There were some fights going on in Vegas.

01:54:26.000 And Kevin and I ran into each other at the concession stand.

01:54:29.000 And he gives me this big hug.

01:54:31.000 What's up, man?

01:54:31.000 How you doing, man?

01:54:32.000 And then other people were coming over.

01:54:34.000 And it's just fans.

01:54:34.000 Fans coming over.

01:54:35.000 Hey, what's up, Kevin?

01:54:36.000 He was like, how you doing, man?

01:54:37.000 Hugging everybody and smiling. 0.99

01:54:39.000 I'm like, what a fucking jovial guy. 0.99

01:54:41.000 You know, the first time I fought him, right? 0.98

01:54:42.000 We fought and only met one time the fight before when he beat Maury Smith to make the picture in the cage and that became the poster later.

01:54:49.000 That was the only time I met him.

01:54:50.000 So now I'm in the hotel and I think it's before the weigh-ins and I'm waiting for the elevator.

01:54:56.000 I'm by myself.

01:54:56.000 The elevator door opens and there he is and he doesn't go out.

01:55:00.000 He needs to be in there.

01:55:01.000 So I get in, and the elevator closed.

01:55:03.000 Now we're with the two of us in the elevator.

01:55:05.000 And I'm looking, but I can't see his face, you know, in the mirror reflection there.

01:55:09.000 And he already has a smirk on his face, and I'm smirking, and I look at him, and I go, you know, good luck tomorrow!

01:55:16.000 And he goes, thank you.

01:55:18.000 He says, you too.

01:55:19.000 And I go, yeah, thank you.

01:55:21.000 And then we look and he says, if you keep your feet on the floor, I promise you I won't take you down.

01:55:26.000 And I go, really?

01:55:27.000 Yeah.

01:55:28.000 Okay.

01:55:29.000 Okay.

01:55:30.000 You know, so...

01:55:32.000 The door opens, and he gets out.

01:55:34.000 Now I don't know this crazy guy, so I know.

01:55:37.000 If you keep your feet on the floor, so no kicks.

01:55:40.000 That's a crazy deal.

01:55:42.000 Yeah, right?

01:55:43.000 What a strange deal.

01:55:44.000 And so in the fight, the fight starts, and you'll see in the fight, once it starts, the first thing he does, he slaps his thigh.

01:55:53.000 Like... 0.84

01:55:54.000 Kick me! 1.00

01:55:55.000 So now I'm confused. 0.87

01:55:58.000 So I go, oh wait, he's going to think I gave him a low kick. 0.74

01:56:01.000 So I'm going to act like I gave him a low kick, but I gave him a front kick to the face. 0.95

01:56:04.000 So if he wants to time it to take me down, I'm going to get him square in the face.

01:56:10.000 So I make a front kick and it goes just in front of it and he's backing up. 0.68

01:56:15.000 I just miss him with the front kick to the face. 0.92

01:56:18.000 And I see something in his eyes, and till this day, I couldn't, or till this day, till a while after, I couldn't figure what it was.

01:56:25.000 But in his mind, he, of course, thought, I thought we said we're not going to kick.

01:56:29.000 You know, but he did that slapping thing on his thigh, so it threw me off.

01:56:33.000 I thought, oh, now he wants me to kick him.

01:56:35.000 Okay, so I guess that whole thing was not real. 0.95

01:56:38.000 Let's start kicking.

01:56:39.000 But he got me, because I kicked, he took me down.

01:56:43.000 And then only that front kick, it missed.

01:56:45.000 He backed up.

01:56:46.000 I go, oh.

01:56:46.000 It would have been fun.

01:56:47.000 Well, there's always gamesmanship, you know?

01:56:49.000 Yeah.

01:56:50.000 It's definitely a lot of that.

01:56:51.000 Oh, I was talking to him the whole time, Big John wrote it in his book, because I was literally, people were booing because laying on the ground, I say, listen, man, I think the fans would like it much better if we stand back up.

01:57:04.000 I'm trying to negotiate with him to go back on the feet, you know?

01:57:09.000 And he goes, nah, let's stay here.

01:57:12.000 That's hilarious.

01:57:13.000 Yeah, he was a good guy.

01:57:15.000 Yeah, he was a great guy.

01:57:17.000 You know, you guys were a part of the early days of MMA. I mean, you are one of the original pioneers of this sport, without a doubt.

01:57:24.000 I mean, you're fighting with Tiyoshi Kosaka.

01:57:27.000 For the longest time, I had that poster.

01:57:29.000 There was a poster announcing your fight with Teyoshi Kosaka that said, the world's greatest martial artist, Bas Rutten.

01:57:35.000 That's how they announced you.

01:57:37.000 I mean, they were building you up because you were like one of the first really elite strikers to fight in MMA. You know?

01:57:44.000 Yeah, they always said, I said, they messed up right there on that poster.

01:57:48.000 They forgot the word looking.

01:57:50.000 The world's greatest looking martial artist.

01:57:53.000 I told them that, but they forgot that word.

01:57:56.000 El Guapo.

01:57:57.000 Yeah, it was a good time.

01:57:58.000 Oh, man.

01:57:59.000 When you look back on it, I mean, it's got to be pretty amazing.

01:58:02.000 The time that you came along, I mean, from becoming the King of Pancras, from entering into the UFC and being the UFC heavyweight champion, like, what number was that, UFC? 18 and 20. 20, I became the champ.

01:58:14.000 Wow.

01:58:14.000 Yeah, almost at 200 now.

01:58:16.000 That's incredible.

01:58:17.000 It's crazy.

01:58:17.000 You know, that's why it was such a great honor, the Hall of Fame, when they said also the Pioneer section.

01:58:24.000 Because the Pioneer section is a section that will only grow so far.

01:58:28.000 Yeah.

01:58:28.000 It will not be...

01:58:29.000 So even in 2,000 years from now, if this keeps going, whatever, it becomes a new Olympic sport, it doesn't matter.

01:58:35.000 We were always the ones that started it.

01:58:38.000 And that's a cool thing.

01:58:40.000 It is a cool thing.

01:58:41.000 I mean, it's crazy also that this is the oldest sport in the world, really, fighting.

01:58:45.000 It is.

01:58:45.000 It's the oldest form of competition.

01:58:48.000 It's also the newest sport, because there's no sport from 1993, which is when the UFC first started, there's no sport from then that has exploded.

01:58:56.000 A new sport that came along in 1993 that's exploded, and now in 2016, I mean, you have Ronda Rousey, who's on the Ellen Show that we talked about today, the Conor McGregor-Dos Anjos fight is probably going to get close to two million pay-per-view guys.

01:59:09.000 I mean, that's going to be fucking crazy.

01:59:10.000 You're dealing with this sport that's exploding. 0.93

01:59:13.000 We're just exploding now.

01:59:15.000 It's so strange that this combination of things.

01:59:18.000 The oldest sport is also the newest sport, and you, from the time you started competing, you caught it right at the beginning of the wave.

01:59:26.000 Yeah, it's really cool.

01:59:30.000 It's an amazing feeling.

01:59:31.000 Many times fans ask, wouldn't you want to be born like 20 years later?

01:59:35.000 I say, no, I'm perfectly happy right now.

01:59:37.000 I mean, also the way I wrapped it up, I didn't lose in my last 22 fights.

01:59:41.000 It's a great way to stop, you know, while I'm ahead.

01:59:45.000 I keep going, see if I can win one more, you lose.

01:59:48.000 You win one more, you lose.

01:59:50.000 You know, that's not a great way to wrap up a career, you know.

01:59:53.000 Of course, injuries with me played a factor.

01:59:55.000 You know, maybe I got the injuries because they said, hey, it's been going really well.

01:59:59.000 Maybe you've got to stop now.

02:00:01.000 You know, because you're getting older and you don't want to admit that you get older because you're still explosive and you still want to do it and you still train with guys.

02:00:09.000 When I came back, I trained with the guys in Vegas and I go, dude, everybody looked at me and they said, then you have a second career.

02:00:14.000 This is the craziest thing.

02:00:15.000 I said, yeah, this is crazy, right?

02:00:16.000 I'm feeling so good.

02:00:18.000 You know, I couldn't do the warm-up.

02:00:19.000 I couldn't do 20 minutes of warm-up when I started because I didn't train for three and a half years.

02:00:24.000 And six weeks later, I'm not taking breaks anymore.

02:00:26.000 I just go into the next opponents.

02:00:28.000 I was, even myself, I amazed.

02:00:31.000 I go, man, this is great.

02:00:31.000 And then all the injuries started coming back.

02:00:35.000 You know, and now I go, okay, now I got it.

02:00:37.000 My knees, my tendonitis, I tore a hamstring.

02:00:39.000 I go...

02:00:41.000 I pulled the rip, put the rip out at the place, at Dan Henderson's place.

02:00:46.000 You know, they took me down in the mid-air.

02:00:48.000 I reversed the takedown.

02:00:50.000 But with that, I used so much upper body strength that I popped the rip out.

02:00:54.000 So now, that was 12 days before the fight, I couldn't punch anymore.

02:00:58.000 Can't punch back.

02:00:59.000 The only thing I did was the workout I had, the audio workout, in the air.

02:01:02.000 That was the only thing I could do.

02:01:03.000 Wow.

02:01:04.000 But you got out of the sport with your faculties 100% intact.

02:01:08.000 That is the ultimate goal of any fighter, to retire, and especially you, because you're now a commentator.

02:01:14.000 You're also an analyst.

02:01:16.000 I mean, you do a fantastic job of breaking down fights.

02:01:18.000 I really enjoy you on Inside MMA, because you have such a knowledgeable perspective, but also you're very honest.

02:01:24.000 You don't play politics.

02:01:25.000 Yeah.

02:01:25.000 You're very honest about how you feel about a fight coming up, about where a guy fucked up, or where a person's chances lie, and I think it's amazing what you've done.

02:01:35.000 It really is amazing.

02:01:36.000 Thank you.

02:01:37.000 I mean, you're sharp as ever.

02:01:40.000 You know, I'm always trying not to get hit, you know?

02:01:43.000 It didn't really work in my title fighting as Kevin.

02:01:46.000 Because you beat the crap out of me for the first four minutes, but you know, but after that It was okay for the rest.

02:01:53.000 I don't think I ever got hit You know, I always try to you know slip and move well fighting intelligent is the most important aspect of fighting to use your mind to use your mind and proper tactics and techniques That's why I love Mighty Mouse Yep.

02:02:08.000 Mighty Mouse is a pound for pound the best guy.

02:02:10.000 I agree.

02:02:11.000 I mean, I don't think there's any competition.

02:02:13.000 I think John Jones is a phenomenal talent, and he's an amazing fighter.

02:02:16.000 But I think it's almost disrespectful to put him as pound for pound the best.

02:02:20.000 When you look at some of the wars that he's had with Gustafson, I mean, the war that he had with Daniel Cormier.

02:02:25.000 I mean, Daniel, obviously, is a great fighter.

02:02:27.000 He's a really good fight, and, you know, John won the fight, of course, clearly.

02:02:31.000 But you look at what Mighty Mouse is doing to the competition.

02:02:34.000 He doesn't even get hit. 1.00

02:02:36.000 Dodson is a fucking freak. 1.00

02:02:37.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:02:38.000 I mean, Dodson's a freak, and Dodson just couldn't touch him.

02:02:40.000 Yeah.

02:02:40.000 Dodson, I always said in the beginning, it's like he's glued to the ground.

02:02:43.000 Yeah.

02:02:44.000 Like, he moves back, he never slips, he never gets great footwork.

02:02:47.000 But, man, DJ, Matt Hume did a really good job there.

02:02:51.000 Amazing.

02:02:51.000 That's really...

02:02:53.000 Yeah, it's a whole new level.

02:02:54.000 Well, he's got so much going on.

02:02:56.000 His mind, he's very smart.

02:02:58.000 He's very dedicated.

02:02:59.000 He's got a great control of his ego. 0.99

02:03:01.000 He doesn't fight like a fool. 0.97

02:03:02.000 He fights very, very technical. 0.95

02:03:04.000 His footwork is fantastic.

02:03:06.000 His choices that he makes in a fight, his unpredictable in his movements, he's just, I think he's the best ever.

02:03:13.000 I really do.

02:03:13.000 He needs a guy to fight like a Conor McGregor, though, because he has a big payday one time.

02:03:18.000 Because Rafael dos Anjos is going to make a lot of money this fight.

02:03:21.000 Oh, yeah.

02:03:22.000 If two million, if that's really going to hit it.

02:03:24.000 And you watch.

02:03:25.000 That will probably get up also.

02:03:27.000 If for some reason McGregor wins this, it's going to be a very hard fight for him.

02:03:31.000 Because I think dos Anjos... 0.98

02:03:33.000 Yeah, it's going to be a very tough fight.

02:03:34.000 Because we saw with Mendes, we all know the same thing.

02:03:37.000 If once it goes to the ground...

02:03:38.000 But you still don't know.

02:03:40.000 You don't know.

02:03:40.000 In that fight, he's so aware of where he is when he fought Mendes, and I'm talking about McGregor, he was just laying on the ground.

02:03:47.000 Yeah.

02:03:48.000 You know, he didn't even try to escape.

02:03:50.000 It was almost like he said, oh, he's going to run out of gas.

02:03:52.000 Mendes took that fight, though, in two weeks.

02:03:53.000 That's what I mean.

02:03:54.000 Just a different animal.

02:03:55.000 But if he could have done that.

02:03:56.000 But he knew that.

02:03:57.000 That's what I'm saying.

02:03:58.000 He knew, oh, I'm just going to carry it into the second round, and I'm going to get him.

02:04:01.000 You know, he didn't even try.

02:04:02.000 Yeah.

02:04:03.000 So I think once against Rafael Dos Anjos, yeah, he's going to need this guy in the guard.

02:04:07.000 That's one thing for sure.

02:04:08.000 Well, it's a different animal.

02:04:10.000 He'll be there every minute of every round. 0.99

02:04:12.000 He'll be there for 25 minutes trying to kill you. 0.98

02:04:14.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:04:15.000 Dos Anjos is a fucking animal, man. 1.00

02:04:16.000 He's an animal. 1.00

02:04:17.000 He's a different animal.

02:04:19.000 Totally different kind of a fight.

02:04:20.000 So I'm so curious as to how that's gonna play out.

02:04:23.000 When you look at how obsessed Conor is with footwork and movement and being smooth and fast and laying punches.

02:04:31.000 Like, one of the things that he said when I was interviewing him after the fight, he's like, no power.

02:04:35.000 See that?

02:04:35.000 No power.

02:04:36.000 Just precision.

02:04:37.000 Just precision.

02:04:38.000 Like, all those coming at him, he just drops that punch in.

02:04:40.000 I mean, he's not grunting.

02:04:43.000 He just drops it in and, boom, takes him out.

02:04:46.000 The thing is, I see him everywhere.

02:04:48.000 So I hope he's not going to make the Rousey mistake.

02:04:51.000 Because I said it two weeks before.

02:04:53.000 I think what Rousey's doing is not good.

02:04:56.000 She's in every talk show, every magazine.

02:04:57.000 I go to the supermarket, three magazine covers.

02:05:01.000 I mean, it's insane.

02:05:02.000 Stop doing that.

02:05:03.000 Fight first.

02:05:04.000 Fight first.

02:05:05.000 That makes you big.

02:05:06.000 Once you lose that, all the other stuff that you're doing right now is going to go as well.

02:05:10.000 Because they want that champion.

02:05:12.000 So McGregor, I hope that he stays focused.

02:05:17.000 And only, you know, picks the ones that he needs to do contractually.

02:05:20.000 And that's it.

02:05:22.000 Yeah, I think he's going to be a lot smarter about it.

02:05:24.000 I think Ronda just got overwhelmed with the amount of superstardom that came her way. 0.94

02:05:28.000 Unprecedented him.

02:05:29.000 I mean, there's never been an athlete like that before. 0.97

02:05:31.000 This female ass kicker who's on top of the world. 1.00

02:05:34.000 I mean, she was a new thing. 0.98

02:05:36.000 And because of that, there were so many temptations.

02:05:38.000 And that's why for her it was also so hard when she lost.

02:05:41.000 She was such a high, you know, and then boom, there you have such a low.

02:05:46.000 This is how your opponents could have felt.

02:05:50.000 And I think that kind of stuff, you know, on one side it's really good for her because now she understands that.

02:05:55.000 Now she's going to go, oh, okay, now I tasted the other side. 0.65

02:05:59.000 You're going to make you a better person, and you start reminiscing about all the things that I, you know, was I, ooh, in that interview, I wasn't really, that wasn't really cool.

02:06:07.000 You know, those things start backfiring once you start losing.

02:06:10.000 It's with McGregor the same thing, although with him, there's always, it's a funny thing.

02:06:14.000 Yeah.

02:06:15.000 You know, with Ronda, it's real.

02:06:18.000 Like, real, real.

02:06:19.000 With McGregor, it's real.

02:06:21.000 The reason he's so unbelievably good is, in his mind, he truly believes there's no way he can lose.

02:06:26.000 Yes.

02:06:26.000 You know?

02:06:27.000 And a guy, to beat a guy like that, Mendes hit him hard.

02:06:30.000 I mean, hard.

02:06:31.000 And he didn't even flinch.

02:06:33.000 There was no zero, no movement.

02:06:36.000 Crazy.

02:06:36.000 It was the craziest thing.

02:06:37.000 We see how Mendes took out Ricardo Llamas, rather.

02:06:41.000 Yeah, Llamas. 0.99

02:06:42.000 Yeah, I mean, Mendes hits fucking hard. 0.99

02:06:44.000 It's hard. 0.99

02:06:44.000 Yeah, it's a hard area. 0.99

02:06:45.000 But Conor just eats it.

02:06:46.000 Eats it.

02:06:47.000 On the tip of his jaw also.

02:06:48.000 It's not like just a head.

02:06:49.000 No, it's crazy.

02:06:50.000 His jaw is incredible.

02:06:52.000 His mind is incredible.

02:06:53.000 I'm so fascinated by that fight.

02:06:55.000 So fascinated by it.

02:06:56.000 And he says, when one of us goes to war, we all go to war.

02:07:00.000 All the way back when he said that, remember in Boston, I believe, right?

02:07:03.000 That's where he got me.

02:07:05.000 That went right away.

02:07:06.000 I said, okay, this guy.

02:07:07.000 That's why we got it right away on Inside MMA. And then the next time he was on Inside MMA, he says, man, I got my monograms.

02:07:12.000 Look, in my suit.

02:07:14.000 How cool is that?

02:07:15.000 He was so happy that he's got his name.

02:07:17.000 Did you ever see the video?

02:07:19.000 Oh, I did some homework on him because we were going to interview him.

02:07:22.000 And I saw this video that he's in a hotel in Dublin, I believe.

02:07:27.000 And there's coconuts.

02:07:28.000 Did you see that part?

02:07:30.000 No.

02:07:30.000 Okay, so he's talking into the camera.

02:07:33.000 They're shooting this, whatever, you know, they're following him around.

02:07:35.000 And suddenly you hear his wife going, no way.

02:07:38.000 Right?

02:07:38.000 And he goes, he's talking to the camera.

02:07:40.000 He looks to the side and says, what?

02:07:41.000 He says, no way.

02:07:42.000 And he says, one second.

02:07:43.000 So he walks over and she comes with a coconut.

02:07:45.000 And there's a hole in there and they put a little cork thing in there.

02:07:48.000 So he goes, no way.

02:07:50.000 You know, it's like they never saw a coconut, right?

02:07:53.000 So they pull the thing out, they put the straw, and they go, oh, no way!

02:07:58.000 You think they did this because I have to fight a Brazilian guy?

02:08:01.000 That's why they start reminiscing, and that is a knock on the door.

02:08:05.000 So he opens the door, and he has the coconut in his hand.

02:08:08.000 It's his trainer.

02:08:09.000 And the trainer sees the coconut, and he does, huh?

02:08:11.000 And the trainer goes, no way! 0.98

02:08:13.000 Ha ha ha!

02:08:14.000 Everybody does the same.

02:08:15.000 It is so funny.

02:08:16.000 And then you see him at the attic.

02:08:18.000 He lives at the attic from his mom and dad with his wife on the attic.

02:08:23.000 And he's putting a suit on.

02:08:25.000 And he's trying to figure out that thing in the pocket.

02:08:28.000 And he goes, I don't know how to do it, but I think in a few years from now I will.

02:08:34.000 This becomes second nature.

02:08:35.000 And then you see him now.

02:08:37.000 You know, how cool is that?

02:08:39.000 You see him really there, and now all the way up there.

02:08:42.000 Good guy.

02:08:43.000 Well, he's making so much money now.

02:08:44.000 It's unprecedented.

02:08:45.000 You know, I was talking to Dana on the phone today, and Dana was saying he's going to be the first guy to make $100 million.

02:08:50.000 Yeah, I heard that.

02:08:51.000 Aldo made $5 million from that last fight.

02:08:53.000 Aldo did.

02:08:54.000 Five million.

02:08:55.000 Five million.

02:08:56.000 And Aldo's going back to Brazil with that money, where it's worth probably like, who knows how much?

02:08:59.000 Fifty and twenty.

02:09:00.000 Yeah, probably something like that.

02:09:01.000 I mean, and for a guy like Aldo, who loves Brazil and loves to be in Brazil, that money goes a long way in Brazil.

02:09:07.000 Yeah.

02:09:08.000 You know, and he can help a lot of people in Brazil with that money, too.

02:09:10.000 Yeah.

02:09:10.000 Whereas, like, if you bring that money to America, I mean, five million dollars in Los Angeles...

02:09:16.000 You can get a decent house, and then it's gone.

02:09:19.000 But in Brazil, he can hold onto that money for a long time.

02:09:23.000 Well, who knows how much Conor's gonna make in this Dos Anjos fight, and even if he loses, he still defends his featherweight title, which is crazy. 0.97

02:09:30.000 What if he fucking wins? 0.91

02:09:31.000 If he fucking wins, and then he goes up and fights Robbie Lawler at welterweight? 0.99

02:09:35.000 Jesus Christ! 0.99

02:09:36.000 Yeah, Wonderboy.

02:09:37.000 It's gonna be insane.

02:09:39.000 Wonderboy has the same kind of timing that he has.

02:09:42.000 Wonderboy's different.

02:09:43.000 He's special.

02:09:43.000 I always say, I always talk about distance.

02:09:46.000 Yesterday in my class I said again, the most important thing in fighting is keep your nose pointed to your opponent, because if you say eyes, they think, look in the way, this is eyes on your opponent.

02:09:55.000 It's not.

02:09:56.000 Keep your full vision.

02:09:58.000 And distance.

02:09:59.000 If you manage to stay just outside his reach, and then you can counter, it's gold.

02:10:05.000 And that's what Wonderboy did also.

02:10:07.000 What Wonderboy has that no one has is karate kicks.

02:10:11.000 He's got the front leg side kick to the body, the front leg roundhouse kick to the face.

02:10:15.000 When he was fucking Johnny Hendricks up with that, he front leg side kicked him to the body, and then front leg roundhouse kicked him to the face. 0.81

02:10:21.000 You can see Hendricks was like, whoa. 0.98

02:10:23.000 What is this?

02:10:23.000 Yeah, he kicks in a way that no one does.

02:10:26.000 When he wheel kicked Ellenberger, Ellenberger was saying before that fight, those kicks are a waste of time.

02:10:31.000 He's like, I think it's a waste of energy, all that spinning stuff.

02:10:34.000 He wheel kicks him.

02:10:35.000 Twice! 0.99

02:10:36.000 Twice in the head.

02:10:37.000 Hope Solo is a big fan.

02:10:38.000 Did you see that?

02:10:40.000 Hope Solo made a video message for Wonderboy.

02:10:42.000 Loves him.

02:10:43.000 How cool is that?

02:10:45.000 He's amazing, man.

02:10:46.000 His fight with Hendrix was his coming out moment, like where you really got to see him with all of his work that he's done with Weidman and his takedown defense and his wrestling.

02:10:54.000 And you're seeing that kickboxing that we always knew he had with the 57-0 kickboxing record.

02:11:00.000 Yeah, that's a crazy thing.

02:11:00.000 You're seeing it come together inside the octagon where all these other MMA skills have caught up with his kickboxing.

02:11:07.000 Fuck, man, that guy's good. 0.99

02:11:09.000 Yeah, he's something. 1.00

02:11:09.000 I was so impressed with that fight with Hendrix. 1.00

02:11:12.000 I was so impressed.

02:11:13.000 When his father said it before, his father was talking about the distance.

02:11:16.000 You know, I go, oh, well, let's see.

02:11:18.000 And then when I saw it, the footwork. 0.76

02:11:20.000 But he's like a snake.

02:11:21.000 He's like in and out and in and out.

02:11:22.000 Did he wrestle?

02:11:23.000 Did he?

02:11:24.000 It has to be, right?

02:11:25.000 I mean, how does he stop those takedowns?

02:11:27.000 First of all, he's done a lot of work with Weidman.

02:11:29.000 Him and Weidman trained together a lot.

02:11:30.000 And also, he's Carlos Machado's son-in-law.

02:11:33.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I read that.

02:11:35.000 So, I mean, he's learning jujitsu, I'm sure.

02:11:37.000 I mean, I don't know what belt he has under that, but Jesus Christ, that's a...

02:11:40.000 That's a high level.

02:11:41.000 That's a beautiful thing to be connected to that guy.

02:11:44.000 How...

02:11:44.000 Did I hear something that he was going to be, like, family of Weidman?

02:11:49.000 What was the connection?

02:11:50.000 Is he going to live there now?

02:11:52.000 Well, he trains with him a lot.

02:11:54.000 I mean, there's a big...

02:11:55.000 Weidman, of course, is an elite wrestler.

02:11:57.000 Yep.

02:11:57.000 You know, NCAA, All-American.

02:11:59.000 I mean, one of the best wrestlers right now in MMA. So to have a guy like Weidman training, I knew they do a lot of training sessions at Hofstra.

02:12:06.000 They go down there and do a lot of work with the wrestling team.

02:12:08.000 But that's what he needed.

02:12:10.000 He needed to be able to confidently stay on his feet.

02:12:12.000 And not worry about executing the kicks.

02:12:15.000 Because you see him earlier in his career, he just didn't, it wasn't loose.

02:12:18.000 It wasn't loose the way he is in a kickboxing fight.

02:12:21.000 Did you ever see him in the World Combat League, Chuck Norris' organization?

02:12:25.000 No.

02:12:25.000 Oh my god, you see him in pure kickboxing, you see what a talent this kid is.

02:12:29.000 Wow.

02:12:29.000 It's incredible.

02:12:30.000 I'm not going to watch it now.

02:12:31.000 But it's so unusual because it's hands down and loose and in and out like a snake.

02:12:37.000 Trying to find a guy who emulates those...

02:12:39.000 I mean, Lyoto Machida has obviously got great karate skill, but...

02:12:44.000 Wonderboy's on another level.

02:12:45.000 It's like several levels past that.

02:12:48.000 The combinations that guy throws.

02:12:50.000 Like when he hit Hendrix, he's tagging him and then as he's sliding out, he roundhouse kicks him in the body.

02:12:55.000 And then he slides back in and hits him with another combination.

02:12:58.000 And then he slides out and slides back in again.

02:13:00.000 And Hendrix is just overwhelmed.

02:13:02.000 We never saw anybody do that to Hendrix.

02:13:03.000 Yeah, I think what's interesting to try with guys like that, I always said this with Machida also, and even with Conor McGregor, and when he fought Aldo, and in this case now as well, because their stance is so karate-wide,

02:13:19.000 right?

02:13:20.000 But it's a karate without low kicks, they're used to here in America.

02:13:24.000 So I said to my buddies, imagine that...

02:13:31.000 The camp from Aldo said four months ago, listen, you're going to face McGregor.

02:13:36.000 Eventually this is going to happen.

02:13:38.000 Let's switch you to Southpaw so we can use your left low kicks because the way they stand, it's going to be very hard for them to get away from low kicks on the outside. 0.99

02:13:48.000 Inside is easy because...

02:13:51.000 What McGregor does, he lowers himself and once his knee goes in the same line as his butt, so to say, you don't have any space to land that inside low kick.

02:14:01.000 It's really weird if you angle it up, the angle is gone.

02:14:04.000 But low kicks In that stand.

02:14:07.000 Outside low kicks.

02:14:08.000 Outside low kicks.

02:14:09.000 From the southpaw stance, yeah.

02:14:10.000 From the southpaw stance, powerful low kicks to that leg, because if you stop the legs, you're going to stop everything.

02:14:15.000 Well, Nicky Holtzkin and Raymond Daniels, because Raymond Daniels is a very similar style.

02:14:19.000 Daniels, of course, was a karate champion, has unbelievable kicking talent, but Nicky Holtzkin stays glued to him and throws leg kicks.

02:14:26.000 He just chops him down, chops him down, chops him down, and then beats him up.

02:14:30.000 And that's the same thing with Joseph Valtellini.

02:14:32.000 He did the same thing with Raymond Daniels.

02:14:34.000 Yep.

02:14:34.000 Chopped him down with low kicks, chop him down with low kicks, and then he head kicked him and knocked him out.

02:14:38.000 Yeah, Vatilini is also something, yeah?

02:14:40.000 Wow, yeah.

02:14:41.000 But he's another guy that he had to relinquish his title because of concussions.

02:14:46.000 And he's going to do the podcast soon.

02:14:47.000 We're talking about him coming on the podcast because he wants to talk about some of the situations he's gone through dealing with concussion syndrome.

02:14:56.000 Wow.

02:14:56.000 Yeah.

02:14:57.000 And he's young.

02:14:58.000 Yeah.

02:14:58.000 Yeah, just hard training, hard fights.

02:15:01.000 The Nicky Holtzkin fight was hard. 0.99

02:15:03.000 He's had some fucking wars. 0.99

02:15:05.000 You see, in training, I never get knocked out, thankfully. 0.99

02:15:09.000 I get hit a few times, but not every workout, for sure.

02:15:14.000 Once and for so many times.

02:15:17.000 You know, because I have good sparring partners.

02:15:19.000 It always happens when you go somewhere and then one of these, in a boxing club, and suddenly a boxer jumps up, hey, want to go a few rounds?

02:15:26.000 And then it goes harder, harder, harder, harder, and then you're in the fight.

02:15:29.000 It becomes a fight.

02:15:29.000 Yeah.

02:15:29.000 Well, that's one of the smart things that Conor does.

02:15:32.000 Conor keeps all of his training partners very close.

02:15:35.000 He's got Gunnar Nelson, he's got a bunch of different guys that he trains with on a regular basis, and he keeps those guys very close to him, and everybody's got a common goal.

02:15:43.000 Everybody's trying to help everybody else, everybody's trying to get themselves healthy, so that they're going to be stepping into that cage at 100%.

02:15:51.000 That's it.

02:15:51.000 Winning combination.

02:15:52.000 See, he doesn't break it.

02:15:53.000 Winning combination.

02:15:54.000 He takes everybody from Ireland, but just come with me. 0.99

02:15:57.000 Very smart.

02:15:58.000 Very smart.

02:15:59.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:15:59.000 I gotta get the fuck out of here, boss. 0.99

02:16:01.000 You're the best. 0.99

02:16:02.000 I appreciate the fuck out of you.

02:16:03.000 You're awesome. 0.52

02:16:04.000 Anytime.

02:16:04.000 Same thing here, brother.

02:16:05.000 Open invitation.

02:16:07.000 With Mauro, we're going to talk about some crazy pride stories people are going to like.

02:16:12.000 Just let him heal up or get over his illness and we'll reschedule it soon.

02:16:16.000 I would love I'd love, love, love to do that.

02:16:17.000 And please check out Rutin and Ranallo.

02:16:20.000 It's available on SoundCloud.

02:16:21.000 It's on iTunes as well.

02:16:22.000 Yes, iTunes.

02:16:22.000 It's on everything.

02:16:23.000 Yep.

02:16:23.000 And of course Inside MMA. It's on AXS TV. Boss Rutin, El Guapo, the great one.

02:16:29.000 Godspeed party on.

02:16:30.000 Thank you, sir.

02:16:31.000 Thank you.

The Joe Rogan Experience - February 17, 2016

Joe Rogan Experience #761 - Bas Rutten

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