The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #762 - Robin Black

00:00:09.000 I wish people who weren't watching on YouTube could just see the majesty that is the jacket that Robin Black is wearing right now.

00:00:17.000 How would you describe that?

00:00:18.000 It's just a gin jacket, man.

00:00:20.000 It's a colorful gin jacket.

00:00:22.000 I like colorful stuff.

00:00:23.000 It's definitely, but it's not just colorful.

00:00:25.000 It's like you're trying to blend in in a rave.

00:00:26.000 Well, it does have some camouflaging effects.

00:00:30.000 Yeah, if you were hunting in a rave, that's what you would wear.

00:00:33.000 Exactly.

00:00:34.000 I don't know what you'd be hunting there. 1.00

00:00:36.000 Pussy? 1.00

00:00:36.000 Yeah, I guess. 1.00

00:00:37.000 Ecstasy?

00:00:38.000 Yeah.

00:00:38.000 It's like a light blue with purple.

00:00:42.000 Yeah.

00:00:43.000 Some sort of decorations.

00:00:45.000 Camouflage is a weird thing, like when you see guys walking down the street with camouflage, and it's like, what if they really were camouflage, like you just see a head floating down the street?

00:00:54.000 Well, one day they're going to have that.

00:00:56.000 Have you ever seen that Japanese invention they came up with? 1.00

00:00:58.000 They have this cloak that you can wear, and it essentially takes an image of what's behind you and projects it on the front.

00:01:06.000 That's invisibility.

00:01:07.000 Yeah, it's kind of crude right now, but what it is is the guy standing, you can see it right here.

00:01:13.000 Look at this. 0.99

00:01:14.000 That is ridiculous. 0.99

00:01:15.000 Isn't that nuts? 1.00

00:01:16.000 That is wild.

00:01:16.000 So what we're looking at is a guy holding a ball, and the ball does it.

00:01:21.000 And so the ball, somehow or another, he's holding it in front of his face, and it doesn't show him when it's in front of him.

00:01:28.000 It shows what's behind him. 0.87

00:01:29.000 Crazy.

00:01:30.000 I don't know how that one's working.

00:01:32.000 Yeah, I don't know.

00:01:32.000 So this is the cloak.

00:01:34.000 I've seen the cloak before.

00:01:36.000 But, you know, you can still see the cloak.

00:01:38.000 Well, that's the thing with that kind of technology.

00:01:40.000 Once it starts, then you're on your way.

00:01:42.000 Exactly.

00:01:43.000 Then, whether it's in one year or three years or 12 years, you're going to be invisible.

00:01:47.000 Yeah.

00:01:48.000 We're in such a strange time because these emerging things are just starting to come out where people go, ooh, oh, whoa.

00:01:55.000 You know, like Magic Leap.

00:01:57.000 Have you seen that Magic Leap technology?

00:01:59.000 I just retweeted a new version of it today that somebody sent me.

00:02:02.000 It's like... 0.99

00:02:02.000 God damn it. 0.99

00:02:03.000 It just keeps getting so bad. 0.99

00:02:05.000 Was it Magic Leap or was it the Microsoft one?

00:02:09.000 One's a Google one and one's a Microsoft one.

00:02:12.000 Magic Leap is the Microsoft one.

00:02:13.000 Which one did I tweet today?

00:02:15.000 I'm looking right now.

00:02:16.000 But they've...

00:02:17.000 The HoloLens.

00:02:18.000 I'm sorry.

00:02:18.000 Microsoft is HoloLens.

00:02:19.000 That's Microsoft.

00:02:20.000 They've got these new goggles that you're going to be able to wear and it's going to be like Minority Report.

00:02:24.000 Like the world is going to be your desktop.

00:02:26.000 You're going to be able to spin things in the air, stop them, expand them, contract them.

00:02:31.000 I mean, you knew that was coming.

00:02:32.000 Like, as soon as you see it on a movie, you know that's going to happen.

00:02:35.000 The one thing right now, it's like, we are in probably the fastest time of change ever.

00:02:41.000 You know what I mean?

00:02:42.000 It's like, if you have an idea, that idea can be done.

00:02:46.000 It's just a series of steps to have to do it.

00:02:48.000 Yeah.

00:02:48.000 I mean, I think, if you go back just a few...

00:02:51.000 Is this it right here, Jamie?

00:02:52.000 Yeah, it's just a picture.

00:02:53.000 Just pictures of them using it?

00:02:55.000 Like how crazy that's going to be, man.

00:02:56.000 You're going to be able to see movies play out in your living room right in front of you.

00:03:00.000 Video games.

00:03:01.000 If you were doing a demonstration for a company or something like that, and you want to show them a project you're working on, or maybe some architecture you're trying to construct.

00:03:09.000 Insane. 0.99

00:03:10.000 Fucking crazy times. 0.99

00:03:11.000 And you know, the first thing people are going to start doing is, how do we connect this to sex? 0.99

00:03:15.000 Oh yeah.

00:03:15.000 Right away.

00:03:16.000 That's where the money is.

00:03:18.000 Somebody's thinking of that right now. 1.00

00:03:19.000 Yeah, people are going to be able to fuck right in your living room. 1.00

00:03:21.000 Right? 0.99

00:03:22.000 That's what the new porn's going to be. 1.00

00:03:24.000 The thing is, I can fuck in my living room. 1.00

00:03:25.000 Yes, right? 1.00

00:03:26.000 You can do it yourself.

00:03:27.000 I could.

00:03:27.000 Yeah, do it yourself, world.

00:03:29.000 We need to get back to that, people.

00:03:31.000 Get back to doing things, actually.

00:03:32.000 Not just watching them.

00:03:33.000 Yeah.

00:03:33.000 That is a weird thing.

00:03:35.000 I mean, as much as you make comedy and fighting and podcasts and stuff, it's still strange that people watch stuff all the time.

00:03:45.000 Don't you find?

00:03:46.000 People love to be entertained.

00:03:47.000 Yeah.

00:03:48.000 I do.

00:03:49.000 You know?

00:03:49.000 Yeah.

00:03:50.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:03:51.000 We like to just have other people do the shit. 1.00

00:03:54.000 Just sit back and watch. 1.00

00:03:55.000 Yeah, but do you define...

00:03:58.000 This is something I always kind of wonder about you.

00:04:00.000 How you can possibly consume so many interesting and unrelated topics and develop expertise in so many unrelated things while being a content maker.

00:04:10.000 Like, you're making stuff that people consume.

00:04:14.000 How can you possibly be mastering all these things at once?

00:04:17.000 I don't really have any...

00:04:18.000 I'm not...

00:04:18.000 I've mastered anything.

00:04:20.000 You know?

00:04:21.000 I'm pretty good at comedy.

00:04:23.000 I throw some good kicks.

00:04:24.000 Yeah.

00:04:25.000 I know jujitsu pretty well.

00:04:26.000 I'm not a master at any of those things.

00:04:28.000 Yeah, but I mean, you're bow hunting, you're, you know, there's so many different things, you know?

00:04:33.000 Like, I literally do fighting stuff all day every day, and when I get a break, I hang out with my wife, and sometimes I'll take a day off, and that's it.

00:04:42.000 I don't know about other stuff.

00:04:43.000 It fascinates me how you can possibly know about so many things that seem unconnected.

00:04:49.000 I assume that it's probably something wrong with my brain.

00:04:53.000 I assume that it's like an extreme form of ADD, but I need a bunch of different things going on in my mind, in my life.

00:05:02.000 If I don't have a bunch of different things going on, I don't feel stimulated enough.

00:05:08.000 I'm almost the opposite.

00:05:09.000 It's like I literally specialize so deeply in something.

00:05:13.000 Once I know something about it, I need to know way more about it.

00:05:16.000 And when I know stuff about that, that opens up a ton of new questions.

00:05:20.000 And that's why it's the same kind of area of stuff that I am obsessively researching and studying.

00:05:27.000 I do that too, but I just do it with a bunch of different things.

00:05:30.000 That's what I mean.

00:05:31.000 That's what I'm getting at.

00:05:31.000 I listen to archery podcasts where they're just talking about very specific ways to hold a bow and fix your sight and make sure you use your release properly.

00:05:42.000 I listen to those fucking things for hours and hours and hours obsessively on top of practicing. 0.98

00:05:47.000 I just get obsessed with things. 1.00

00:05:48.000 But I used to worry about it when I was younger. 0.97

00:05:50.000 I used to be like, what the fuck is wrong with me? 0.92

00:05:52.000 I can't just concentrate on one thing. 0.99

00:05:54.000 I always have all this other shit going on in my life. 0.98

00:05:56.000 But then I realized, well, that's just me. 0.99

00:05:58.000 If I just enjoy it and just do those things, then it doesn't concern me.

00:06:03.000 Then I'm just appreciative that I have so many interests.

00:06:06.000 Did you ever read some piece somebody wrote, something about, I hate Joe Rogan, or why I hate Joe Rogan, and then he went on this path and he discovered that he actually hated that you were your authentic self.

00:06:21.000 Have you ever read this?

00:06:22.000 Somebody wrote this thing.

00:06:23.000 And as he learned more about what it was to be authentically him, he realized his hatred for some famous person was that he was looking at him and he hated that that guy was actually him.

00:06:34.000 Well, it's easy to hate somebody that's, like, in the microscope all the time, because you'll find all these flaws.

00:06:40.000 Like, if you follow someone every day, day in, day out, and expect...

00:06:44.000 Perfection or enlightenment.

00:06:46.000 You're gonna be massively disappointed because the kind of exposure that you get when you're doing a podcast like when you're talking to someone for hours and hours and hours, you know, I've done 700 and what is this?

00:06:57.000 762?

00:06:58.000 762 podcasts.

00:07:00.000 The shortest one is an hour.

00:07:01.000 Most of them are three hours.

00:07:03.000 That's 2,100 almost 2,500 hours.

00:07:08.000 Somewhere around that, you know, give or take.

00:07:11.000 But it's Yeah, so you're gonna get annoyed at me.

00:07:15.000 I get annoyed at me.

00:07:16.000 But his point wasn't that.

00:07:17.000 It was that you are authentically Joe Rogan.

00:07:20.000 Like, whatever it is you do, you ended up being...

00:07:22.000 I mean, you're sitting here in a place that you built to do the thing that you want to do exactly the way you want to do it.

00:07:28.000 You're as authentically a human being as a person can be.

00:07:31.000 I guess so.

00:07:32.000 You know? 0.99

00:07:32.000 Like when you're talking about accepting why you go and do things the way that you do them, that's why you do, because you're like, fuck being some other thing. 0.99

00:07:40.000 I'm gonna be this thing. 0.99

00:07:41.000 Well, that's just...

00:07:42.000 I think...

00:07:44.000 Having this kind of a life is super lucky, and if I didn't live it that way, I wouldn't be taking advantage of this huge opportunity that very few people get.

00:07:52.000 Most people have to work. 0.88

00:07:53.000 They have an actual fucking job that they don't really necessarily like that much. 0.98

00:07:58.000 And somehow or another, I've figured out a way. 0.98

00:08:00.000 I mean, I worked when I was younger, for sure, and I figured out how to get to this spot by...

00:08:04.000 Sort of moving away from things that I didn't want to do.

00:08:07.000 But now that I get to a point where everything I do, whether it's this, I was looking forward to this.

00:08:11.000 I'm like, I'm going to get to hang with my friend Robert.

00:08:13.000 We're going to have some fun. 0.99

00:08:14.000 Talk some MMA and life and all kinds of shit. 0.98

00:08:17.000 And that's the same thing I feel like when I go do stand-up. 0.98

00:08:19.000 Same thing I feel like when I'm practicing archery or I'm working out.

00:08:23.000 These are things I enjoy doing.

00:08:25.000 Yeah.

00:08:25.000 And that's why I do what I do.

00:08:27.000 And I really believe people can do that.

00:08:30.000 I think you just have to start, first of all, by figuring out what it is you want to do.

00:08:34.000 Because if you don't know that, then you're just going to start wondering.

00:08:37.000 But the thing is, if you push somebody, they all know.

00:08:40.000 Most people really know what it is that they love.

00:08:42.000 I find that young people a lot of times don't.

00:08:44.000 A lot of young folks, when I talk to them, they just don't have a path.

00:08:50.000 They're like, God, I just need to find something to do.

00:08:51.000 I'm thinking about doing this, or maybe I'll join the military to get some guidance and some discipline, or maybe I'll do that.

00:08:59.000 It's hard to tell, because what's cool for you, Jamie might not like.

00:09:03.000 What Jamie might like, I might not like.

00:09:05.000 Jamie was trying to find Kanye West shoes all last night. 1.00

00:09:08.000 I don't like that, but he probably thinks this jacket is stupid. 1.00

00:09:10.000 Motherfucker was up all night trying to get Kanye West shoes. 1.00

00:09:15.000 You know? 1.00

00:09:16.000 It's true.

00:09:16.000 Yeah, everybody's different, you know?

00:09:19.000 I think you've got to figure out what it is you like doing because the path of going to do that is the whole point.

00:09:26.000 People often be like, well, I want to get this kind of job or I want to buy this kind of house.

00:09:31.000 And it's not supposed to be that way, in my opinion.

00:09:33.000 You're supposed to start on a path and on that path, traveling along it, you're having adventures, you're stumbling onto new things.

00:09:40.000 And the challenge of It being really hard to achieve is part of what gets you up every day.

00:09:46.000 Yeah, and it's also fun.

00:09:48.000 Watching things improve, watching yourself get better at things and analyzing things and figuring out what the holes are, the flaws, where the errors are in your little system that you've created.

00:09:59.000 Those moments are fucking awesome. 0.76

00:10:01.000 They're really fun. 0.96

00:10:02.000 Yeah.

00:10:03.000 You know what really frustrates me, really frustrates me when talking about these things?

00:10:06.000 Sometimes I'll get messages from people and they'll say, well, that's easy for you to say because, you know, you've got lucky and you found it.

00:10:14.000 But like, you know, a lot of people can't do that.

00:10:17.000 A lot of people have responded.

00:10:18.000 They'll come up with all these reasons why they can't instead of saying, well, my situation is particularly difficult, but there's a workaround and I'm going to find it.

00:10:28.000 Yeah.

00:10:28.000 It might take me a year.

00:10:29.000 It might take me a decade.

00:10:30.000 I'm going to find it.

00:10:32.000 Wherever it is you're ending up is somewhere in the future.

00:10:34.000 You don't know what that is.

00:10:35.000 And now it's like, well, I would like to do that thing I got to do, but I have all these responsibilities.

00:10:40.000 Okay, our new job, figure out how to take care of those responsibilities.

00:10:43.000 That's step one.

00:10:44.000 Do you know Maslow's hierarchy of needs?

00:10:47.000 Yes.

00:10:47.000 Yeah.

00:10:48.000 That idea that first we have to like, you got to eat, you got to stay dry, and you got to drink water.

00:10:54.000 Once we've kind of accomplished that kind of stuff, that's out of the way, then we start to go a little further.

00:11:00.000 How do we become safer?

00:11:01.000 Once that happens, you climb up to the point that you're actually...

00:11:06.000 Eating, sleeping, having sex, you have a place to live, you have a job, and now you're trying to learn more things.

00:11:12.000 And it's just a natural kind of transition to get smarter and move.

00:11:15.000 But it's easy to say that.

00:11:17.000 The hard part, I think, is starting going that way.

00:11:19.000 You know, the hard part is going...

00:11:21.000 Okay, this isn't working.

00:11:22.000 Well, what if I got some exercise?

00:11:24.000 Like, maybe that would help.

00:11:25.000 Like, for some people, that path isn't, what job do I gotta start tomorrow?

00:11:29.000 That path is like, well, I'm unhealthy, or I don't think, my thought processes aren't things that lead me this way. 0.98

00:11:35.000 So you gotta start way low on that thing and start getting that shit together. 0.99

00:11:39.000 Eat good. 1.00

00:11:40.000 Get sleep and exercise.

00:11:43.000 Everybody should have to do those things.

00:11:46.000 Our society should be shaped in a way that you have to do those things.

00:11:50.000 Because if you aren't doing those things, right there, you're starting from a place where you're just not performing as well as you could.

00:11:56.000 It's so hard to tell people that, though.

00:11:58.000 They don't want to hear it. 0.97

00:11:59.000 They just love that food porn. 0.99

00:12:00.000 They just love just shoving donuts in their face. 0.99

00:12:04.000 Yeah! 1.00

00:12:05.000 Pasta and just fucking sugar. 1.00

00:12:09.000 It's tasty shit. 1.00

00:12:11.000 But there's a lot of things that are terrible for you that are great. 1.00

00:12:15.000 Heroin's...

00:12:16.000 I've only been in Woodland Hills three times.

00:12:19.000 This is the second time I've been on your show.

00:12:21.000 The other time was the time I was on heroin for four days.

00:12:25.000 That's the only other time I was in.

00:12:27.000 Four days.

00:12:28.000 In Woodland Hills, I was 20 years old. 0.99

00:12:30.000 Damn. 0.99

00:12:31.000 Yeah, it was weird. 1.00

00:12:31.000 Shooting up? 1.00

00:12:32.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:12:33.000 It was very strange.

00:12:34.000 That's a commitment.

00:12:35.000 Yeah, it didn't start that way.

00:12:37.000 Like all things. 1.00

00:12:39.000 Nobody grows up and says, I'm going to do really stupid things. 0.97

00:12:43.000 I was like 20, and I lived in Winnipeg, Manitoba. 0.99

00:12:46.000 And I was really into music.

00:12:49.000 And I came down here for...

00:12:50.000 I was a hairdresser at the time.

00:12:52.000 And so...

00:12:53.000 And this jacket would work perfectly.

00:12:56.000 So would your hair.

00:12:56.000 Yeah, my hair.

00:12:57.000 Exactly.

00:12:58.000 And I was down here doing some...

00:12:59.000 I would do platform work where I would demonstrate how to do stuff for other hairdressers and people.

00:13:05.000 And I went to...

00:13:08.000 Not the Viper Room.

00:13:10.000 One of those clubs.

00:13:11.000 And this pretty woman comes up to me and says, are you a musician? 0.84

00:13:15.000 And I'm like, yeah.

00:13:16.000 And I'm kind of about to say, but I live in Canada.

00:13:19.000 And she goes, well, my husband's putting together a band.

00:13:22.000 And you've got to meet him.

00:13:23.000 His name's Andy McCoy.

00:13:25.000 And Andy McCoy wouldn't mean much to a lot of people, but to somebody who's really into Motley Crue and stuff like that, he was in a band called Hanoi Rocks that kind of started that movement.

00:13:36.000 I'm like, whoa, shit, I'm going to be famous.

00:13:38.000 I'm going to be rich and famous. 0.99

00:13:40.000 Not knowing that, although Metal Edge told me that this guy was a big deal, he was just a musician. 0.98

00:13:46.000 But to a 20-year-old from Winnipeg, he's like, oh my god, I'm going to be in a huge fucking band. 0.88

00:13:51.000 So I go and I meet him. 0.98

00:13:52.000 We go to his house in Woodland Hills.

00:13:55.000 Actually, I've been here four times.

00:13:56.000 There was that time.

00:13:57.000 Then I flew home to Winnipeg and they flew me back down because they were going to get me singing in their band.

00:14:01.000 I'm like 20 years old.

00:14:02.000 This guy's like famous to me, right? 0.97

00:14:03.000 So I get down there and that shit is not all that organized. 0.98

00:14:08.000 You know what I mean? 0.98

00:14:08.000 Like something's not making a lot of sense. 0.98

00:14:10.000 And then around day two, I figure out, okay, it's because everyone's on heroin.

00:14:15.000 And it started, we had smoked some pot, which in Winnipeg, in Manitoba, we called that dope.

00:14:19.000 You want to smoke some dope?

00:14:20.000 It's like, sure.

00:14:21.000 It was like, so he goes, do you do dope?

00:14:23.000 I'm like, yeah, I just smoked it with you like 20 minutes ago.

00:14:25.000 He goes, no, like, and then before I knew it, he'd injected me with heroin.

00:14:29.000 Whoa.

00:14:29.000 A conversation sort of happened.

00:14:31.000 I was trying to be not super uncool, but not saying, yes, I want to do heroin.

00:14:37.000 And then four days went by.

00:14:39.000 Whoa.

00:14:39.000 Like literally just shooting up for four days.

00:14:43.000 And then I just about missed my plane home.

00:14:46.000 So I had a girl and a home and a job and all those kinds of things.

00:14:50.000 And I'm kind of looking at like the plane ticket.

00:14:53.000 And I know it's like, okay, if I get a cab in the next two hours, I'll get the plane, I'll get home or whatever.

00:14:58.000 And he's like, well, just, you know, and you're not even thinking.

00:15:01.000 It's like you're barely even there.

00:15:03.000 And somewhere along the line, I was just like, don't worry about it.

00:15:05.000 Just fine.

00:15:06.000 You don't have to get on the plane.

00:15:08.000 But I probably got $100 to my name.

00:15:10.000 And if I didn't get on that plane, I'd have no job, no girl. 0.99

00:15:14.000 I'd be a heroin addict with no money in Woodland Hills with a guy who doesn't have his shit together. 1.00

00:15:19.000 I think in the years since, he's got his shit together. 0.99

00:15:22.000 I haven't seen him since then. 0.98

00:15:24.000 And I made myself go, and I was sick for two or three days. 0.95

00:15:28.000 And I realized, like, literally that second in time, if I don't convince myself to get on that plane, my whole life is fucking ruined. 0.99

00:15:38.000 I just so vividly remember trying to talk myself into just, fuck it, stay here, don't worry about it. 0.99

00:15:45.000 And then I would think to myself, well, what are you going to do? 0.99

00:15:47.000 When are you going to get home? 0.98

00:15:48.000 Don't fucking worry about it, man. 0.99

00:15:50.000 And I just forced my... 0.99

00:15:51.000 And I was literally convincing myself, don't bother, don't worry, it's not a big deal.

00:15:56.000 But it was obviously a big deal.

00:15:58.000 And I got home, I was sick for two days, and I've never taken an opiate or any kind of painkiller ever again.

00:16:04.000 So you were sick like hungover?

00:16:06.000 Yeah, like a violent form of it.

00:16:09.000 Was it withdrawals?

00:16:11.000 Probably, right?

00:16:12.000 Probably.

00:16:12.000 In the course of playing in music, I've met lots of people who have opiate problems.

00:16:19.000 And they would say, oh man, four days, that's nothing.

00:16:21.000 But to a person who was a normal person, and then all of a sudden they were doing drugs for four days, it probably was a violent withdrawal.

00:16:31.000 So it was very sick.

00:16:32.000 And I knew that day, I'm just never going to take any kind of narcotic or painkiller like that ever again.

00:16:37.000 Wow.

00:16:38.000 So that was the second last time I was in Woodland Hills.

00:16:41.000 Well, the idea that you could just become that person like that.

00:16:47.000 You just meet the wrong person.

00:16:49.000 Hey, man, you want to do some dope?

00:16:51.000 Oh, yeah, we just did dope. 0.99

00:16:55.000 All of a sudden, you're on heroin.

00:16:56.000 Yeah, and there's lots of those little moments in everybody's life.

00:17:01.000 That's a big one.

00:17:02.000 That's a big one.

00:17:03.000 But you don't know when they are or where they are or how they start.

00:17:06.000 You're just suddenly – you know what I mean?

00:17:09.000 Many less as we get older.

00:17:11.000 We start to get a little smarter.

00:17:13.000 You recognize big risks earlier on down the road as you get older. 1.00

00:17:18.000 A life experience helps you with that shit. 0.99

00:17:20.000 But yeah, that's – I was thinking that on the way here today. 1.00

00:17:23.000 I was like, oh yeah.

00:17:24.000 But I mean that's 25, 26 years ago.

00:17:27.000 So did you ever talk to that guy again?

00:17:29.000 We were in touch about maybe still putting this band together and then he was clearly, you know, had addiction issues.

00:17:36.000 I followed him a little bit after.

00:17:38.000 He had a reality show.

00:17:41.000 He's from Finland and he's a pretty big rock star in Finland.

00:17:44.000 And he and his wife, who was there at the time, that was the woman that I met, they had a reality show with, you know, kind of like what Ozzy did, but with them.

00:17:53.000 Whoa.

00:17:54.000 Yeah, so crazy.

00:17:55.000 Yeah, Finland, yeah.

00:17:57.000 How many people are in Finland?

00:17:59.000 Probably about half as many as Canada would be my guess, which about 30 million, some 15 or 20 million, maybe.

00:18:04.000 And this guy's just a big rock star over there?

00:18:06.000 I think so.

00:18:07.000 I mean, the whole music world is such a different life to me now.

00:18:11.000 Like, I've been so deeply embedded in fighting for the last decade.

00:18:14.000 Like, I don't know about much else.

00:18:16.000 Like, he could be the president of Finland right now for all I know.

00:18:19.000 Like, I just don't consume a lot of other things.

00:18:21.000 You know what's shocking to me?

00:18:22.000 I have a lot of friends now that are musicians that are doing really well and not making much money.

00:18:28.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:18:28.000 It's fucking... 0.99

00:18:29.000 It's eerie. 1.00

00:18:31.000 It's eerie when you find out that these guys who you think would be ballers are kind of struggling.

00:18:37.000 Yeah, that business is...

00:18:39.000 It's crazy.

00:18:40.000 Dead.

00:18:41.000 It's not just...

00:18:41.000 But the touring is what I don't understand.

00:18:43.000 It's like, how come they're not making all this money from touring?

00:18:46.000 But I guess it's like a comic has a much lower overhead.

00:18:50.000 Comics just...

00:18:51.000 We don't need anything.

00:18:52.000 Just turn the microphone on and we're good.

00:18:53.000 They need support.

00:18:54.000 They have all these other people that are there.

00:18:56.000 You know, they have...

00:18:57.000 People that carry their stuff.

00:18:59.000 Roadies, sound people.

00:19:00.000 Lights.

00:19:00.000 Rigs.

00:19:01.000 Yeah.

00:19:02.000 They have other people in the band, obviously.

00:19:05.000 When we went and saw you at Ka there, that was awesome, too, by the way.

00:19:09.000 That was fun.

00:19:09.000 The Ka Theater at the MGM. Doing that again next month.

00:19:12.000 Yeah, cool. 1.00

00:19:13.000 This is the shit. 1.00

00:19:14.000 So, something like that. 1.00

00:19:15.000 Do you have anybody else?

00:19:17.000 Like, is there a sound guy?

00:19:19.000 Is it the house guy?

00:19:20.000 Do you have a house guy?

00:19:21.000 Yeah, they just have to turn the mic off.

00:19:23.000 That's amazing.

00:19:24.000 Yeah.

00:19:24.000 Well, it's just so low-maintenance, being a comedian.

00:19:26.000 You just have to...

00:19:27.000 You know sell tickets and you get there and you say hi and you just go do your act Except for the 30 years of developing your act yeah building it and having you know the insight to Understanding how people laugh and all that kind of stuff.

00:19:42.000 Yeah, you're sort of developing your ability to make an act But the act itself is like it lives for about two years and it dies Then you have to like let it go like you you you build it up You put it on something, put it on some sort of a special or a CD or something like that,

00:19:58.000 and then you got to abandon it.

00:19:59.000 Wow.

00:20:00.000 And then you move on to the next two hours.

00:20:02.000 And in those two years...

00:20:04.000 I'm going to pull this back to fighting because everything gets pulled back to fighting.

00:20:07.000 Yeah.

00:20:08.000 I've been trying to just go, you don't have to talk about fighting all the time.

00:20:11.000 I've been telling myself that outside of work, regularly, actively trying to find other things to know about or learn about.

00:20:19.000 But you build...

00:20:22.000 Like structures around something, right?

00:20:25.000 So Johnny Hendrix goes to fight Stephen Thompson.

00:20:27.000 His whole world has been built like that act for years.

00:20:32.000 He built that thing and structures were built around how to perform that act that way.

00:20:37.000 And then all of a sudden it's just dated.

00:20:39.000 It's just not going to work in this setting, you know?

00:20:42.000 Yeah, it's completely dated when you're dealing with...

00:20:44.000 There's two things that Wonderboy did in that fight that you just didn't see up until he came around.

00:20:52.000 And one big one was the front leg attacks.

00:20:55.000 His front leg side kick and front leg roundhouse kick to the face.

00:20:59.000 You see, he hit Johnny with a front leg side kick to the body.

00:21:02.000 You can see it really shook Johnny.

00:21:03.000 And then immediately afterwards, he goes high and hits him with a front leg roundhouse kick right in the chin. 0.99

00:21:08.000 And he's like, what in the fuck? 1.00

00:21:10.000 Like, this guy can do some shit with his feet that I'm just not geared up for. 1.00

00:21:14.000 He didn't have the timing for. 0.99

00:21:17.000 It's...

00:21:19.000 Johnny was in a gym boxing with boxers.

00:21:23.000 Yeah.

00:21:23.000 Lots and lots of boxers.

00:21:24.000 His hands are great.

00:21:25.000 He's got it.

00:21:26.000 He's moving around.

00:21:27.000 Yeah, as long as guys stand in front of him.

00:21:28.000 And it's like, literally, what Stephen Thompson did, and the really exciting thing you're seeing right now, is this weird moment where it's like...

00:21:39.000 You're a great wrestler.

00:21:41.000 So what do I need to do?

00:21:42.000 I gotta go learn to wrestle. 0.99

00:21:43.000 You don't have to fucking learn to wrestle. 0.99

00:21:44.000 We're gonna do that anyways. 0.99

00:21:46.000 We gotta learn to make it not about wrestling.

00:21:48.000 We gotta make it so...

00:21:49.000 I mean, MMA developed by finding the answer to the thing.

00:21:54.000 And somewhere, all of us, every coach, every one of us, five years ago, seven years ago, we were like, well, that's it.

00:22:01.000 It's boxing, wrestling, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, this cage work, this is how fighting is done.

00:22:06.000 That's it. 0.96

00:22:07.000 We're fucking way wrong. 0.85

00:22:09.000 So when we think that, we start building a structure, gym environment, curriculums, how we train, and that thing gets more ingrained and complicated. 0.86

00:22:19.000 And you go to the gym, you work these four or five things, and some guy over here is working other stuff.

00:22:24.000 And our whole gym is like that.

00:22:26.000 And all our training partners are like that.

00:22:28.000 And we're working the mixed martial arts curriculum.

00:22:30.000 But some other guy isn't.

00:22:32.000 And when he develops that thing, we're not prepared for it.

00:22:35.000 We're just not prepared for it.

00:22:36.000 Yeah, sport karate.

00:22:38.000 That's sport karate blitz.

00:22:40.000 That's something that Thompson can do, but also he came from a kickboxing background.

00:22:45.000 So he's got the sport karate ability to leap in, sort of like Raymond Daniels who fights in glory.

00:22:50.000 He's got that leap in attack ability that's very difficult to deal with if you don't have that kind of footwork.

00:22:55.000 And then on top of that, he can string together beautiful hand combinations.

00:22:59.000 So he'll slide in...

00:23:02.000 Blitz you with four or five beautiful hand combinations and then slide away and then kick you in the stomach as he's sliding away.

00:23:10.000 And you're like, Jesus Christ.

00:23:11.000 You can see the bewildered look on Johnny's face in that fight.

00:23:14.000 Yeah, and he's a brilliant fighter.

00:23:16.000 He was the champ.

00:23:17.000 He was a tough guy.

00:23:19.000 But Johnny's got that style where he'll stand like Johnny and Robbie.

00:23:22.000 They're stood in front of each other.

00:23:23.000 And you're just not going to find that with Wonderboy.

00:23:26.000 He's just not there.

00:23:28.000 That's what this guy's trying to...

00:23:30.000 That's the game he's going to try to play.

00:23:32.000 This guy, he's holding up a plastic cell.

00:23:34.000 Is it plastic cell?

00:23:35.000 Plastic cell?

00:23:36.000 They sent us a Conor McGregor doll.

00:23:39.000 Yeah, and it's all stumpy and angry.

00:23:41.000 The same guys who sent the Biggie doll.

00:23:43.000 They sent us a Conor McGregor and Jamie's got a Tupac over there. 1.00

00:23:47.000 There's a Bruce Lee for Joey Diaz.

00:23:48.000 That's cool.

00:23:50.000 But that's what he'll try to do.

00:23:51.000 But what he can do with his feet is not nearly at the level that Stephen Thompson is. 0.99

00:23:58.000 Stephen Thompson's doing some shit with his feet. 0.99

00:24:00.000 The way he's throwing kicks, they're deadly. 0.99

00:24:02.000 I mean, he's one of the best kickboxers that America's really ever produced.

00:24:08.000 That's amazing.

00:24:08.000 57-0 as a kickboxer.

00:24:11.000 Yeah.

00:24:12.000 So then you go and train with Weidman, right?

00:24:15.000 And Weidman roughs you up, and Weidman's work ethic, and the whole thing rubs off on you, and you just start getting familiar with it. 0.96

00:24:22.000 And it is, yeah, I can defend takedowns, but more importantly, we ain't fucking wrestling. 0.88

00:24:26.000 We're not gonna wrestle. 0.99

00:24:28.000 And it seems him, Cruz, Cruz is a fucking absolute genius. 0.96

00:24:33.000 All these guys, even Demetrius and Matt Hume, they play this game, so we're sitting here, And like, we can't wrestle from here, right? 0.97

00:24:42.000 So for you to get to me, you have to travel through space.

00:24:46.000 As you move forward two feet, I move back two feet.

00:24:48.000 You move that way two feet.

00:24:49.000 And you play this game where we keep the space forever.

00:24:52.000 And I just keep that space as long as you want me.

00:24:55.000 I'm making that space.

00:24:56.000 And when the space is there, either you're going to get so lulled into it that I can...

00:25:01.000 Dart in, and Wonderboy's weapons are his kicks, but some guys will do it with their hands.

00:25:05.000 Dart in and hit you, or you start chasing me. 1.00

00:25:08.000 You chase me, I intercept you and fuck you up. 1.00

00:25:10.000 And it's just so logical. 1.00

00:25:12.000 And you're looking at it now, and just the way that the karate guys had to go learn to wrestle, or did they?

00:25:19.000 They had to learn to not wrestle, to make it not about wrestling as much as possible.

00:25:23.000 The Johnny Hendricks, the Matt Hughes style of fighter, they've got to figure this out.

00:25:27.000 They have to figure it out.

00:25:29.000 Well, you know, what happened was he learned how to get comfortable standing up, where he didn't worry about being taken down all the time.

00:25:36.000 And then you got to see what he's really capable of with his striking.

00:25:38.000 Because you look at his earlier fights, he was a little more tight because he was worried about being taken down.

00:25:43.000 So all that takedown defense, I mean, he always had the great footwork, but now he also has a solution if you do grab him.

00:25:51.000 So when guys grab him, he's not out of water.

00:25:53.000 He knows what to do.

00:25:54.000 He can break free again.

00:25:55.000 And it is way harder to take someone down when they're not trying to wrestle with you.

00:26:00.000 If someone's trying to be aggressive and attack, you can counter.

00:26:03.000 And you can take advantage of openings that they leave.

00:26:07.000 But when someone is just being defensive, like if jujitsu, if you roll with someone, it's very hard to tap someone who's just being defensive.

00:26:14.000 They're not trying to attack.

00:26:16.000 It's when they open up and they go after you, that's when you can get them.

00:26:19.000 That's when they leave openings.

00:26:20.000 And I think the same thing with wrestling.

00:26:22.000 These guys, like, Mirko Krokop was a great example. 0.95

00:26:25.000 When he first started fighting in Pride, he took, you know, just like a year or so, and all of a sudden he had takedown defense figured out and everybody was fucked.

00:26:34.000 Because then you gotta stand with this guy, and he was one of the best examples of a high-level kickboxer that entered into MMA because he was always a one-shot explosive striker.

00:26:45.000 Whereas a guy like Ernesto Hust was a combination fighter, a guy who threw beautiful, technically perfect combinations, but never really like, bah, like blitzed in and exploded.

00:26:55.000 And it seems like the blitz is a big part of MMA fighting.

00:27:00.000 Yeah.

00:27:00.000 I mean, the technical striking for sure is important, but I think you've got to be able to make that mark quickly, especially with those little gloves.

00:27:10.000 Yeah.

00:27:10.000 And the footwork, if it gets you over here, that I have to take one step to center back into you, then you blitz me there.

00:27:19.000 That's what Dominic's doing for the last, like, number of years.

00:27:22.000 And then he starts, now he gets so good at that thing.

00:27:25.000 You can't quite figure out how to even...

00:27:27.000 Anthony Johnson is so good at staying in balance to hit you.

00:27:31.000 Wherever you are, he's in balance to hit you.

00:27:34.000 Because Henry Hooft looked at him and was like, what's the key to this guy?

00:27:39.000 Just put him in a place where he can always hit.

00:27:41.000 Put him in a place where he can deliver with power.

00:27:43.000 He's really good at that.

00:27:44.000 Small little steps.

00:27:46.000 But...

00:27:48.000 Dominic Cruz could dance all around him.

00:27:49.000 Dominic Cruz can move it so that he has to step back to hit him.

00:27:52.000 That's when he'll get in.

00:27:53.000 Then he gets so good at that one thing, he just starts camouflaging with other things.

00:27:58.000 Now you don't know when it's coming.

00:27:59.000 Now maybe you hesitate.

00:28:00.000 Oh, when you hesitate, he has an option.

00:28:02.000 When you chase, he has more options.

00:28:05.000 You think it's better to stay still, so you do.

00:28:08.000 Then you get beat up.

00:28:09.000 So then you think, I better get after him.

00:28:10.000 And then when you do, you get intercepted.

00:28:12.000 And that whole thing must become so frustrating.

00:28:14.000 Mm.

00:28:15.000 You know, so mentally frustrating.

00:28:16.000 Then you're like, I gotta take this guy down.

00:28:18.000 And in some cases, that's what they're waiting for, you know?

00:28:21.000 Hit you on the way in.

00:28:22.000 It's just, that game is so, it feels like the big difference now.

00:28:28.000 If you can't do that, if I can't do that and you can... 0.96

00:28:32.000 What the fuck am I gonna do? 0.98

00:28:33.000 I have to fight panic. 0.99

00:28:34.000 That was Ali in his youth.

00:28:36.000 You know, when Ali was young, before they took away his title and he was kicked out of boxing for three years and then he came back and he was much more flat-footed.

00:28:44.000 But the early days when you would watch Ali fight guys, he would be able to move away from them and then slide back in and hit them.

00:28:51.000 And they really didn't have a solution to that.

00:28:53.000 And when you don't have a solution to that, it means you're getting hit and you're not being able to hit the other guy.

00:28:58.000 And just think of that.

00:29:00.000 You know, you can ready yourself for that.

00:29:02.000 You're prepared.

00:29:03.000 You know it's a challenge, but you've been working on answers.

00:29:06.000 Like, I thought for sure Dwayne Ludwig with TJ, they would have worked on, like, situational things.

00:29:13.000 And maybe they did.

00:29:14.000 I think they did.

00:29:16.000 We're either going to option A or B. We know these are some of his choices.

00:29:20.000 Big, broad strokes answers.

00:29:22.000 And they worked sometimes.

00:29:23.000 I mean, we look back in that fight.

00:29:24.000 I thought Dominic won.

00:29:25.000 But TJ had the moments where he had the biggest shots or the cleanest shots.

00:29:29.000 There was only half a dozen of them in 25 minutes.

00:29:32.000 But you saw that was the answer.

00:29:34.000 But it must be incredibly frustrating to be in there.

00:29:37.000 You're mentally prepared for it.

00:29:38.000 You got the answers. 1.00

00:29:39.000 And as the minutes are clicking away, you're like, oh, shit. 1.00

00:29:42.000 It's true. 1.00

00:29:43.000 Someone lied to me.

00:29:44.000 That feeling must be the worst. 1.00

00:29:45.000 When you're in there, you're like, oh shit, they lied to me. 0.99

00:29:48.000 What do you mean by they lied? 1.00

00:29:49.000 There was this...

00:29:50.000 I mentioned Anthony Johnson.

00:29:51.000 So, Phil Davis is like...

00:29:54.000 I'm a huge fan of Phil Davis.

00:29:56.000 I love Phil Davis.

00:29:57.000 Me too.

00:29:57.000 He was fighting Anthony Johnson, and he went for that first takedown.

00:30:00.000 And you go back and you look, the look on his face when he fails that takedown is like, this is not what I was told it was going to be.

00:30:07.000 Maybe...

00:30:07.000 Somebody lied to me sounds like a funny way to say it.

00:30:10.000 Right.

00:30:10.000 But...

00:30:11.000 This is not how it was supposed to go.

00:30:13.000 Right.

00:30:31.000 Yeah.

00:30:32.000 I think if Dominic...

00:30:35.000 I think when you watch the TJ fight, the big moments that TJ had, I think what Dwayne was trying to get him to do more was not load up.

00:30:45.000 And that he was really trying to knock Dominic out.

00:30:48.000 I mean, that's really what he wanted to do.

00:30:50.000 I think maybe if he just concentrated more on the leg kicks.

00:30:52.000 I mean, he had that one leg where it turned out that Dominic had had a serious injury with his foot.

00:30:58.000 Like plantar fasciitis.

00:31:00.000 I've had that.

00:31:00.000 Have you?

00:31:01.000 What is it like?

00:31:02.000 Oh god.

00:31:03.000 So I actually had it after a fight.

00:31:06.000 My last fight was my best performance ever and it went great.

00:31:10.000 And that fight, training going up to it, the guy was a very good striker compared to me.

00:31:19.000 I think?

00:31:39.000 It hurt my foot and then we went, my wife and I went on vacation right after and we walked non-stop the first day that we were there, just non-stop.

00:31:47.000 And the next day the fasciitis happened and it feels literally like you can't even put weight on your foot.

00:31:53.000 Like it's so inflamed and you don't know what it is.

00:31:56.000 Like did you damage it?

00:31:57.000 Is it just hurt?

00:31:58.000 And it hurt for months and months and months and months after.

00:32:01.000 And just yoga actually helped it.

00:32:03.000 Really?

00:32:04.000 Yeah.

00:32:04.000 Strengthening the foot and the ankle.

00:32:06.000 Yeah, yoga's one of the things that I found when I started getting into it was how much my feet hurt.

00:32:10.000 Yeah?

00:32:11.000 Yeah, because I was like, my feet are weak, I guess.

00:32:13.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:32:14.000 Because you're big, and your feet and ankles are designed to do the stuff that you do to them.

00:32:20.000 And now you're asking them to do all this other stuff.

00:32:22.000 I was surprised because I felt like I do so much barefoot.

00:32:25.000 I lift weights barefoot.

00:32:26.000 I kick the bag.

00:32:27.000 Everything's barefoot.

00:32:28.000 I was like, this is not going to be hard to just stand on my feet and hold poses.

00:32:32.000 But it's pretty hard.

00:32:33.000 For the first couple months, I would have some serious foot pain in certain positions.

00:32:38.000 And then now they're stronger.

00:32:40.000 Yeah, now it's much better.

00:32:41.000 But still, that's probably my weakest part is my balance, balancing my foot there.

00:32:46.000 I saw when you had Carlos and his movement guy on here, and that was one of the things they talked about.

00:32:51.000 It's one of the things Ido Portal talks about, too, is that one of the biggest weaknesses in our whole chain for most of us is our feet and our ankles.

00:32:59.000 That's Nick Curzon's number one thing.

00:33:00.000 When I said, what's the number one thing that you like to work on with fighters is, like, foot strength.

00:33:04.000 Wow.

00:33:04.000 It's, like, the number one thing that guys have that they need to improve.

00:33:08.000 Well, mine just...

00:33:10.000 Fully inflamed for a long time after that fight and just mistreatment and they were already weak.

00:33:15.000 So what do you do for that?

00:33:16.000 I literally, I was in Mexico and I would have to like sit against, lean on my wife to get to the bar to drink some tequila so that it would hurt a little less so I could get to the pool where it didn't hurt as much because you had water buoying you. 0.69

00:33:31.000 So were you taking painkillers or anti-inflammatories?

00:33:34.000 No painkillers since the last summer.

00:33:36.000 No opiates.

00:33:37.000 But like Advil or anything?

00:33:39.000 Yeah, Advil.

00:33:40.000 I literally couldn't walk for three days.

00:33:41.000 I'm not joking.

00:33:42.000 I would lean on her to get to the bar to have some tequila. 0.99

00:33:46.000 So it is the fascia on the bottom of the foot that separates?

00:33:50.000 Is that what it is?

00:33:51.000 Yeah, it separates or inflames...

00:33:54.000 And yeah, we got it.

00:33:56.000 The plantar fascia.

00:33:57.000 Yeah, and I guess it affects people in different ways.

00:34:00.000 Like if it's over, you know, if it shortens, it gets hard and it shortens, that hurts your foot in other ways.

00:34:07.000 It's just a weird kind of spot.

00:34:09.000 We're walking on that all day, all the time, climbing and fighting and running and whatever things we do.

00:34:14.000 And that thing right there is on the bottom.

00:34:16.000 I mean, you got to figure that's going to take some abuse in your life.

00:34:18.000 They also say a big issue is shoes the way the the padding that we have on shoes the extra like the runners padding You know you're really supposed to have like the most minimal amount of protection from the environment as possible Just a thin minimalist type of a shoe that and that allows us to use our feet The thing we got is just a big lump on it,

00:34:37.000 you know, so you don't get to use it But when when you train taekwondo growing up like martial arts for kids like kids and teenagers and stuff man, it's just gonna make everything better and Well, definitely flexibility.

00:34:48.000 I'm still really flexible at 48. I mean, it's because I never stopped doing it, but it's also because I started doing it before my body grew up.

00:34:57.000 But what they're saying now is that Navy SEALs that are learning, they're going through training and everything with those...

00:35:05.000 Toe shoes.

00:35:05.000 They're trying to stop them from wearing those toe shoes.

00:35:08.000 Because so many guys, their feet are not strong enough to run and do all these exercises and those things.

00:35:13.000 Because they're used to wearing your basic running shoe with a thick heel.

00:35:17.000 And if you ever...

00:35:18.000 People are listening to this.

00:35:20.000 I think there's a TED Talk about it where they went over how...

00:35:25.000 Someone had created one of those running shoes with the thick heel area, and what it had done is really essentially changed the way people run.

00:35:33.000 It changed their gait, and it made people run heel first, which is totally unnatural.

00:35:37.000 You're supposed to ball the foot first, and your foot's supposed to absorb the energy.

00:35:41.000 And when you do that, your foot acts as sort of like a spring, and it slows you down, it decelerates you, and that's how you're supposed to run.

00:35:48.000 You push off that, and you run with that.

00:35:50.000 If you do that, your foot will be very strong, and you could run long distances, and your foot will stay healthy.

00:35:56.000 But if you're used to using those running shoes with the big heel, you go heel down first, you don't have that strength in your foot, and you can get really fucking injured if you try to do the same amount of miles and the same intense workout with a toe shoe or something like that.

00:36:10.000 Because your feet are just not designed for it yet, or conditioned for it, rather.

00:36:14.000 The funny thing, like, when, you know, they're telling them not to use these shoes because their feet aren't strong enough.

00:36:20.000 But if they use the shoes, their feet will become strong enough.

00:36:23.000 Yeah, but they want them to go through some pretty fucking grueling, rigorous, soul-searching, you know, workouts. 0.60

00:36:30.000 And we talked about, I was hurt, I did yoga, it fixed it. 0.96

00:36:34.000 You did yoga, it hurt, now it's better.

00:36:36.000 Like, you have to go through a certain amount of hurt.

00:36:38.000 You have to go through a certain amount of, you know, challenge to repair it.

00:36:42.000 But it strikes me so strange when you think about some things that humans do, something as small or big as going, well, we're going to wear these shoes, changes everything.

00:36:53.000 Not only how we are, our future, these little things that we do as people, you're never able to project the good and the bad outcomes of them in the future.

00:37:04.000 You just have to deal with them when they have them.

00:37:06.000 Yeah, I'm a big fan when it comes to like minimalist footwear.

00:37:10.000 I'm a big fan of wearing like real...

00:37:12.000 I work out with either barefoot or these...

00:37:14.000 I have these new balances.

00:37:15.000 Yeah, blue.

00:37:15.000 They're just like a slipper.

00:37:16.000 Yeah, I have the exact same ones.

00:37:17.000 They're black, but they're like this little thin thing. 1.00

00:37:20.000 Well, I wear the toe shoes, but goddamn people give you a hard time with the toe shoes. 0.99

00:37:24.000 Yeah, me too. 1.00

00:37:25.000 They're so brutal.

00:37:26.000 I have those new balance ones.

00:37:27.000 I do still do a lot of powerlifting.

00:37:29.000 I love powerlifting.

00:37:30.000 I just love it.

00:37:31.000 Yeah.

00:37:31.000 I try to do yoga and martial arts and offset, but I love...

00:37:36.000 Heavy lifting.

00:37:37.000 And deadlifts, you can't use padding.

00:37:39.000 You're going to lose force.

00:37:41.000 You have to use some type of lifting.

00:37:42.000 I use Nikes, usually.

00:37:44.000 Or I'll use the New Balance ones.

00:37:46.000 Not Nikes, rather.

00:37:47.000 Converse, All-Star.

00:37:48.000 Like these things.

00:37:49.000 The Chucks.

00:37:50.000 These are my favorite.

00:37:51.000 Because they're just flat.

00:37:52.000 They're flat and they're very thin.

00:37:54.000 They're real flexible.

00:37:56.000 If you climb something with these things, they bend and give.

00:38:01.000 It's not like a rigid thing.

00:38:04.000 Have you ever done a powerlifting meet?

00:38:06.000 A meet?

00:38:07.000 Yeah.

00:38:07.000 It's super fun, man.

00:38:09.000 What do you do?

00:38:09.000 You compete?

00:38:10.000 Yeah, you go and compete.

00:38:11.000 You compete in powerlifting?

00:38:12.000 Yeah.

00:38:12.000 I won the nationals at my age and weight last year.

00:38:15.000 Holy shit. 0.99

00:38:16.000 I trained at this place. 0.99

00:38:17.000 What are you lifting?

00:38:18.000 How much do you lift in?

00:38:19.000 I weigh about 155 and I'll deadlift maybe like 360. Jesus, that's a lot of weight.

00:38:25.000 And then my bench is maybe 230, 240. Which doesn't sound like a lot of weight to people who go to the gym and just throw it around.

00:38:33.000 For 155?

00:38:34.000 That's a lot of weight.

00:38:35.000 But a powerlifting, like a regulation bench press, you bring it down, it's got to stop all movement and you wait for the command to push.

00:38:43.000 So it's...

00:38:44.000 How long do you wait?

00:38:45.000 Till all movement is stopped.

00:38:47.000 Might be one second, could be two, could be three.

00:38:49.000 And they say go.

00:38:50.000 They say press.

00:38:50.000 So you can't bounce it off your chest.

00:38:52.000 Stop all movement and press from that spot.

00:38:55.000 But I train at this place.

00:38:56.000 I love it.

00:38:57.000 I just, I love it.

00:38:59.000 And in Toronto, my wife comes now too.

00:39:01.000 And I brought her at first because she always wanted me to cancel.

00:39:06.000 Because I was going in the morning, she's like, why don't we just go get for breakfast?

00:39:09.000 Why do you have to go to the gym tomorrow?

00:39:11.000 So then I just started.

00:39:12.000 Oh, she's one of those wives. 1.00

00:39:13.000 Yeah, well, she's cool, man.

00:39:15.000 She's a temptress. 1.00

00:39:16.000 She's a temptress. 1.00

00:39:17.000 She's super cool.

00:39:18.000 But I was just like, she's always like, oh, just skip one.

00:39:22.000 So I got her going.

00:39:23.000 Now she loves it, too.

00:39:24.000 But tons of women powerlifting now. 1.00

00:39:27.000 Really?

00:39:27.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:39:28.000 And it shouldn't be the only thing that you do.

00:39:31.000 Because weightlifting, you mentioned, you've lifted weights all your life, and all of a sudden you did yoga, and it added so much.

00:39:36.000 But if you're lifting weights and doing movement and doing yoga and doing flexibility stuff, but that's hard to do.

00:39:42.000 That goes right back to what we said.

00:39:44.000 You've got to work out, you've got to eat good, and you've got to sleep, or else you won't have a good life.

00:39:48.000 Most people don't have the time to do all the different things you would need to do.

00:39:52.000 So one of the most frustrating things about people that get into Jiu Jitsu is they just do Jiu Jitsu.

00:39:57.000 And I'm always like, man, you really should lift some weights, especially if you're getting older.

00:40:02.000 It's one of the most important things to preserve the joints.

00:40:05.000 Like keeping muscle tissue strong and healthy and making sure that you've got good muscle density that protect those joints.

00:40:12.000 Because, you know, you're engaging in a form of combat on a regular basis and you're doing no strengthening other than that combat.

00:40:20.000 So weird.

00:40:21.000 People, when you go to the gym, you see the Muay Thai guys and they're standing around, they're moving and stuff.

00:40:26.000 The Jiu Jitsu guys are sitting around chatting.

00:40:28.000 Right?

00:40:29.000 So that mood makes you feel like it's not combat. 0.98

00:40:32.000 And then you do jujitsu and it's fucking fighting, you know? 0.97

00:40:36.000 It's physically fighting. 0.99

00:40:38.000 Your joints are fighting.

00:40:39.000 And I think the mood of it makes it feel like, ah, you know, it's a bit of a stoner sport in some ways.

00:40:44.000 Guys just chill out and they're wearing their pajamas, hanging out, but it's fighting.

00:40:48.000 Yeah, if you're getting caught in things, you know, just trying to fight out of them or trying to not tap, you put tremendous amount of pressure on your joints.

00:40:56.000 Put a tremendous amount of pressure on your neck, on your back, always a lot of pressure on your back to try to get out of situations.

00:41:02.000 You're contorting yourself often, you know, and you really need to be strong in those areas and flexible.

00:41:08.000 Flexible is a big one.

00:41:09.000 It's very important.

00:41:10.000 I took, first time I met Eddie, I took his seminar and Eddie's got a room full of people.

00:41:15.000 And I think he, I maybe had heard him say this before in a video or something and people are stretching and he says, so you gotta, you gotta work on that.

00:41:24.000 And somebody said, well, this is as flexible as I am.

00:41:26.000 And he's like, that is a very North American line of thinking.

00:41:29.000 No other place where people go, this is as flexible as I am.

00:41:32.000 They'd say, this is as flexible as I am right now.

00:41:36.000 If I work at it, I will become more flexible, like everything in life.

00:41:39.000 But for some reason, we have these limiting beliefs.

00:41:43.000 It's like, do you know how to play piano?

00:41:46.000 No.

00:41:46.000 But you could learn how to play piano if it was important to you.

00:41:49.000 Yeah.

00:41:49.000 My fingers work.

00:41:50.000 Yeah.

00:41:51.000 And in six weeks, you'd be a better piano player than you are today.

00:41:53.000 And in three years, you'd be a way better piano player.

00:41:56.000 That's true of every single thing in life.

00:41:58.000 And one of the reasons, you know, I learned stuff from studying fighters.

00:42:03.000 Like, I learned stuff about life.

00:42:04.000 Lots of stuff.

00:42:05.000 But one of those big ones is that growth mindset.

00:42:09.000 The idea that if we put in time on anything, it'll get better.

00:42:13.000 And the work itself is the point.

00:42:15.000 That thing, if a kid has that, their whole life is better.

00:42:21.000 And we can have it at 40 or 50 or at 60. The idea that whatever I am is not what I am, it's what I am today, but I can improve those things.

00:42:28.000 I love that.

00:42:29.000 That's a great attitude.

00:42:30.000 That's a great way to say it.

00:42:32.000 Whatever I am is what I am today.

00:42:34.000 Yeah.

00:42:35.000 I mean, I talk about this guy.

00:42:38.000 I like this little thing.

00:42:39.000 This thing's pretty cool.

00:42:41.000 I talk about that guy a lot.

00:42:43.000 And we were talking about people hating sometimes people that they see on TV. Some people hate this guy.

00:42:50.000 Of course they hate Conor. 1.00

00:42:51.000 He talks a lot of shit and he's super successful. 1.00

00:42:53.000 Yeah, for sure. 1.00

00:42:54.000 Exactly.

00:42:55.000 You put it perfectly.

00:42:57.000 But the thing that guy has is that insane growth mindset.

00:43:01.000 To him, anything is possible.

00:43:05.000 I believe anything is possible, but if you win the 155 belt, okay, you go fight Robbie.

00:43:13.000 Okay, if you won that, what are you going to fight?

00:43:16.000 Rockhold?

00:43:16.000 And then, you know, John Jones.

00:43:18.000 There are limits.

00:43:19.000 You know what I mean? 1.00

00:43:20.000 There are fucking limits. 0.99

00:43:21.000 But he actually believes there are none. 0.99

00:43:23.000 And that belief, he's better at everything than he was yesterday. 0.58

00:43:27.000 You wait until Rockhold kicks him.

00:43:29.000 You realize there's a difference.

00:43:32.000 That's what I'm saying.

00:43:33.000 There's got to be a point.

00:43:34.000 But that belief that there is no point, that belief that there is no limit whatsoever is incredibly powerful when it's put together with a drive of a work ethic, with an insane work ethic.

00:43:46.000 That is a powerful thing.

00:43:48.000 Well, it's interesting, too, because with fighters, when they're in camp, most of the time you're preparing for a specific opponent.

00:43:55.000 You're not really picking up new skills.

00:43:57.000 The way they really pick up skills is by training and taking chances and going outside their comfort zone, which is really not something you want to do while you're conditioning yourself for a fight.

00:44:06.000 So when a lot of times when guys are going back to back to back and they're fighting a lot, they're not really improving much.

00:44:11.000 What they're doing is just they're improving their ability to compete because they're getting more comfortable because they're competing a lot.

00:44:17.000 They're getting relaxed, they're in great shape, and they're getting used to the feeling of being in competition.

00:44:22.000 But man, there's not a lot of time to take some time to just go over new stuff, to learn new things, to add new weapons.

00:44:30.000 Well, when I talked to him and his coach, Kavanaugh, who I only spoke to briefly, I actually tried to contact him to ask him if I could pick his mind a bit before doing this breakdown.

00:44:41.000 I took it as a big compliment that he's like, no, no, I'll maybe chat with you after.

00:44:45.000 Like that But if he gave me something, I might pass it on.

00:44:48.000 I took it as a compliment.

00:44:49.000 And I do a podcast, The Mentality of Combat Sports.

00:44:53.000 And I do it with my very good friend, David Mullins.

00:44:55.000 Is it on iTunes?

00:44:56.000 No, it is or will be.

00:44:58.000 We're not super on top of that.

00:45:00.000 How long have you been doing it?

00:45:00.000 We've been doing it for a year.

00:45:01.000 What the fuck? 0.99

00:45:02.000 Get it on iTunes, man. 0.99

00:45:03.000 It's on YouTube.

00:45:05.000 Oh, okay.

00:45:06.000 It's on YouTube.

00:45:07.000 Yeah.

00:45:07.000 But it either has been on iTunes for a few months or it's in the process.

00:45:11.000 We got a guy who does that.

00:45:14.000 But, so, and I've been doing it with him, and he is part of the SBG team.

00:45:18.000 He's the...

00:45:19.000 Straight Blast Jam.

00:45:20.000 Yeah, the combat, the sports psychology coach of the team.

00:45:25.000 Oh, interesting.

00:45:25.000 And when I ask him about Connor, and we're very good friends, but when I ask him about Connor, he says, Connor is his own...

00:45:31.000 But I know at the same time, when you work with his own mental coach, he's on his own journey.

00:45:38.000 And not that he doesn't want information from David, but he wants it from 50 sources.

00:45:43.000 He's consuming philosophy and ideas of how to improve and ideas of what it is to be your authentic self, peak performance, all that kind of stuff.

00:45:53.000 He's constantly consuming it.

00:45:55.000 But my inside info that I get from David working with him, he's like, They don't train really for an opponent, ever, really.

00:46:04.000 The opponent is, he's not a person.

00:46:07.000 He is a collection of skills and attributes and a body type, and that's it.

00:46:12.000 And we're training to get better every day.

00:46:14.000 The goal is to be better, not to train.

00:46:17.000 And why is that a good thing?

00:46:18.000 Among the millions of reasons, Jose Aldo's out, Chad Mendes is in.

00:46:23.000 Wow.

00:46:23.000 If you spent all that time training for Jose Aldo, and only Jose Aldo, oh my god, Chad Mendes is in, questions, doubts, concerns, what are we doing, game plan.

00:46:32.000 Instead, he was like, it doesn't matter who it is.

00:46:36.000 And they train to get better every single day in everything.

00:46:40.000 Wow.

00:46:41.000 That's a great mindset if you can pull it off.

00:46:44.000 He's pulling it off.

00:46:45.000 He is pulling it off right now.

00:46:46.000 I wonder how much of what he's doing, what he's able to do is his own unique physical gifts.

00:46:54.000 The fact that he's been so successful so far with this strategy and Also, the people that he's training with.

00:47:03.000 He's got fantastic training partners, great grappling with Gunnar Nelson, great coaching.

00:47:07.000 I wonder if that is the way to do it.

00:47:11.000 Because I wonder, is there going to come a time where he faces another guy like him?

00:47:16.000 Like a guy that's on that level, and maybe it's Rafael Dos Anjos.

00:47:19.000 Maybe it is.

00:47:21.000 I just sent the breakdown in, and Craig...

00:47:24.000 At the UFC said it's good to go.

00:47:27.000 So they'll release it when their digital department does stuff.

00:47:30.000 So it's coming out in the next day or two.

00:47:32.000 Beautiful. 0.98

00:47:32.000 Your breakdowns are fucking awesome, man. 0.98

00:47:33.000 Thanks, man. 0.95

00:47:33.000 I really, really love them. 0.95

00:47:34.000 I love doing them.

00:47:35.000 I can tell.

00:47:36.000 This one, eight to ten days.

00:47:39.000 But that's of work on it.

00:47:41.000 The ideas...

00:47:46.000 How long is the piece?

00:47:47.000 It's four minutes.

00:47:48.000 Let's play it.

00:47:49.000 Can we play it?

00:47:49.000 No, we can't play it.

00:47:50.000 Shit! 1.00

00:47:51.000 I know, we can't. 1.00

00:47:52.000 Fuckers! 1.00

00:47:54.000 I know I've already thanked you, but thank you for making that happen. 1.00

00:47:58.000 Oh, please.

00:47:59.000 My pleasure.

00:48:01.000 When you recommended my stuff to Dana, I flew down to the office with him and Craig, and Dana and I were literally standing up acting out stuff while we were talking.

00:48:10.000 It was really, really, really exciting and cool.

00:48:12.000 And it is cool to be doing that for the UFC. It's awesome to have you, man.

00:48:17.000 Yeah, well, when you first started doing it and we became friends and I would watch your stuff, you know, I just immediately was saying like, wow, this guy should be doing this for the UFC. I mean, your stuff is awesome.

00:48:28.000 Thank you.

00:48:28.000 You put so much thought into it.

00:48:30.000 There's so much, and you can get so much out of it as a fan. 0.92

00:48:33.000 As someone who's like, look, this fight is goddammit.

00:48:36.000 This Conor McGregor, Rafael Dos Anjos fight is an epic super fight.

00:48:40.000 It's two champions in their prime, one of them coming off of a stunning 13-second knockout to win the title, the other one coming off of a brutal beatdown of one of the most popular contenders. 0.99

00:48:50.000 I mean, Dos Anjos looks like a goddamn murderer, and Conor looks like a freak. 0.98

00:48:55.000 He's like just these two guys, it's perfect. 1.00

00:48:57.000 It's the perfect fight.

00:48:58.000 So to get some technical insight and to get a view into what your thoughts are on footwork and movement and what Dos Anjos could possibly do to mitigate some of that footwork.

00:49:09.000 What's gonna happen if Conor gets on his back the way Mendez got him on his back? 0.98

00:49:12.000 Because Dos Anjos is a lot bigger, a lot stronger and dangerous as fuck with his submissions. 0.93

00:49:18.000 Yeah, Chad's never really submitted people. 0.99

00:49:20.000 That guillotine, but Conor used that threat to get up.

00:49:24.000 But Chad was two weeks in for that fight.

00:49:28.000 Plus all the media obligations.

00:49:30.000 There's no way a guy who's got a wrestling-heavy strategy like Chad does, you're not going to be conditioned enough to go five rounds with two weeks.

00:49:38.000 He had to knock him out.

00:49:38.000 And so he went in hard and early.

00:49:40.000 He pushed all his chips in. 1.00

00:49:42.000 Conor's got a chin that's made out of some fucking, the same shit that Wolverine's bones are made out of. 1.00

00:49:46.000 Adamantium. 1.00

00:49:47.000 Oh my god.

00:49:48.000 I've never seen anybody take a Chad Mendes punch to the face like that.

00:49:52.000 And he was getting hit with the right hand quite a lot.

00:49:57.000 He was getting hit with it.

00:49:58.000 Whether or not now, I mean, Dos Anjos is a southpaw, too.

00:50:02.000 So it changes things.

00:50:03.000 And he knocked out Poirier, who was a southpaw, and I think Brandau is a southpaw, too.

00:50:07.000 So he has dealt with him.

00:50:08.000 But on the other hand, Dos Anjos took out Ben Henderson, who was a southpaw, Pettis switches.

00:50:15.000 Jason High was a southpaw.

00:50:16.000 He's faced plenty of them. 0.95

00:50:18.000 He's a beast, man. 0.73

00:50:19.000 It's interesting.

00:50:19.000 But breaking that stuff down, when I looked at it, so my real goal is to try to influence the way people watch fighting and to make them see it the way that I see it.

00:50:31.000 That's the actual goal.

00:50:32.000 The goal is that I see this crazy, unbelievable stuff happening underneath some of the surface, and I want to entertain people long enough that I can trick them into learning some of it.

00:50:43.000 And that's the plan.

00:50:45.000 Trick them into learning.

00:50:47.000 That's funny.

00:50:47.000 You just want to entertain them, make sure they're having a good time.

00:50:50.000 And at the end of it, they are walking around going, yeah, and by the way, that kick works this way.

00:50:54.000 Because if you go and you just stand there and you have a diagram, I think there was always outside of...

00:51:02.000 People were learning fighting from your commentary.

00:51:05.000 And then there wouldn't be another show.

00:51:06.000 So then they'd have to come back and they'd learn during the fights, which is great.

00:51:11.000 I mean, that was your...

00:51:12.000 You did more to educate people about fighting than any person ever, probably.

00:51:16.000 I mean, I can't think off the top of my head anybody who has...

00:51:20.000 Contributed more knowledge of fighting.

00:51:22.000 And it was done.

00:51:23.000 You're entertaining.

00:51:24.000 You're having fun.

00:51:25.000 They love your voice.

00:51:26.000 So that was the learning.

00:51:28.000 But then there's not another fight now for a few weeks. 0.99

00:51:30.000 We should learn some shit in the meantime. 0.87

00:51:32.000 And we should get you prepared so you don't have to teach them everything about this fight in the fight while calling the fight and making sure it's entertaining. 0.98

00:51:40.000 We've got to get you prepped with some knowledge.

00:51:42.000 Well, there's never been a time like this before where you could get so many different breakdowns, like the Gracie breakdowns of submissions that Henner and Huron do, Lawrence Kenshin stuff, Jack Slack stuff.

00:51:54.000 There's so much good stuff.

00:51:55.000 Who was the guy that Kenny was plagiarizing?

00:51:57.000 Yeah, I forget his name off the top of my head.

00:51:59.000 That was a weird situation.

00:52:01.000 Did you talk about that much?

00:52:04.000 Because you were a guy who, when that happened in comedy, you were not having that.

00:52:07.000 No, not really.

00:52:09.000 But it wasn't good.

00:52:10.000 You know, what Kenny's take on it is that Kenny, he writes a lot of notes, and he's been writing notes for years and years, and that's what happened.

00:52:19.000 He just failed to attribute, which, you know, may be the case.

00:52:22.000 I don't know.

00:52:23.000 But I like the fact that we found out, though.

00:52:27.000 Lee Wiley, that's right.

00:52:28.000 Yeah, he does great stuff.

00:52:29.000 There's a lot of really good people.

00:52:31.000 That's right.

00:52:31.000 That was excellent.

00:52:32.000 Yeah, it was very good.

00:52:33.000 There's a lot.

00:52:34.000 And when I started to do analysis, there wasn't a lot.

00:52:38.000 And I was hoping, now, just like when you started doing a podcast, have you had hundreds of people say, oh, I started a podcast?

00:52:45.000 Yeah.

00:52:45.000 And just like, I get guys emailing me, hey, I'm doing analysis.

00:52:48.000 Yeah.

00:52:49.000 And I think...

00:52:50.000 And I wasn't the guy who started it.

00:52:51.000 I can't take any credit for that. 0.97

00:52:53.000 But when people did it excitedly, people were like, oh shit, fighting is way more interesting than just...

00:52:59.000 I mean, the real thing that kind of would bother me is there wasn't... 0.96

00:53:04.000 You know, a fight would happen.

00:53:06.000 This awesome stuff would happen.

00:53:08.000 Crazy things that had, you know, changed the way that you understood how people moved and what happened when trained athletes fought each other.

00:53:14.000 And it meant something to the next time that you fight, the way they move, all that stuff.

00:53:18.000 And then people would be like, alrighty, got it done at two minutes of the third round.

00:53:23.000 What's next for this guy?

00:53:24.000 Which is, that's a great conversation too.

00:53:26.000 Or what does this mean for the title rankings?

00:53:28.000 Or, you know, who are you going to call out?

00:53:30.000 It was instantly looking ahead.

00:53:33.000 Fighting immediately was like, well, what's the next fight and how's it going to go down?

00:53:36.000 No amount of like, what does it mean?

00:53:39.000 What happened?

00:53:40.000 I mean, we're taking human beings at the highest level of training and in a global experiment to figure out what is the ultimate way that human beings can do combat.

00:53:50.000 And we're putting them there at personal risk to themselves.

00:53:54.000 For our entertainment. 1.00

00:53:56.000 And brilliant shit happens. 0.99

00:53:57.000 We can't just move on. 1.00

00:53:59.000 We can't just go, oh, well, you know, Johnny won or GSP won or whatever.

00:54:03.000 Well, what's his next fight?

00:54:04.000 We got to honor that fight.

00:54:06.000 We got to honor the fact that these guys are giving that stuff.

00:54:10.000 Well, I think we both agree that the fighters of today are the greatest fighters ever.

00:54:13.000 And the audience is far more knowledgeable today than they've ever been before.

00:54:19.000 So when we're watching all these breakdowns and all these different technique videos, you have so much more access to mixed martial arts knowledge.

00:54:27.000 It's incredible.

00:54:28.000 You ever follow any of those BJJ video ones on Instagram?

00:54:34.000 Like viral BJJ? Holy shit, man. 0.99

00:54:37.000 Some of those fucking moves, like, I've never seen those. 1.00

00:54:40.000 I've been doing jujitsu for 22 years and I've never seen some of those moves. 1.00

00:54:42.000 Crazy.

00:54:43.000 It's incredible. 1.00

00:54:43.000 Some of these guys have, like, some sick fucking transitions, man. 1.00

00:54:47.000 Amazing stuff. 0.99

00:54:49.000 Yeah, jujitsu is a whole other fascinating world of its own right now.

00:54:53.000 But, yeah, I just love now that it's like it isn't just...

00:54:56.000 The outcome, or the storyline around it, or the shit-talking, people are interested in the fight, like the thing that's happening when these geniuses are actually moving.

00:55:06.000 That just makes me, I'm glad that's happening. 0.86

00:55:09.000 I'm so glad that's happening.

00:55:10.000 And that happens in other sports too.

00:55:12.000 Eventually, at first, just gotta see home runs, man.

00:55:15.000 We're just gonna sit around until the home runs happen.

00:55:18.000 Or, like what if in football, people who love football didn't understand, they were just bored out of their tree booing when they ran the football one yard.

00:55:26.000 And they only cheered when it was like a long bomb.

00:55:28.000 That's what happened to some degree in fighting.

00:55:31.000 Guys would be against the fence or guys would be grappling and people would be like, ah, when is the fighting going to happen?

00:55:37.000 We still see that.

00:55:38.000 Yeah, we do.

00:55:39.000 We still see that.

00:55:40.000 Especially when we go to different markets outside of Vegas and the audience is not that educated and they start booing when it goes to the ground.

00:55:47.000 Yeah, crazy. 0.99

00:55:48.000 It sucks. 0.98

00:55:50.000 I commentated Taekwondo for the Pan Am Games. 0.99

00:55:54.000 Really?

00:55:54.000 Yeah, and I commentated like eight Maybe more like 10 or 12 traditional martial arts in Russia for the World Combat Games.

00:56:02.000 Wow.

00:56:02.000 And it's super cool.

00:56:04.000 And seeing that Brazilian jiu-jitsu is moving the way that those sports moved in a lot of ways.

00:56:12.000 Taekwondo was awesome commentating that. 0.54

00:56:15.000 And the Mexican team won almost all the medals.

00:56:19.000 Really?

00:56:19.000 Yeah.

00:56:19.000 Interesting.

00:56:20.000 Because you can punch.

00:56:22.000 As we all know, but we don't do it because our coaches and the way that we've taught and the way we've celebrated the spinning and beautiful techniques, that's what we're doing.

00:56:32.000 That space in between you and me being able to kick each other from here, the Mexican team entered that space, took it away and punched you in the body. 0.63

00:56:39.000 And they won almost all.

00:56:40.000 So they were throwing like body punches.

00:56:41.000 Body punches won almost all.

00:56:42.000 Boxing style body punches.

00:56:44.000 That's interesting.

00:56:44.000 It's like the sport itself kind of agrees to do taekwondo.

00:56:48.000 And that happens in every sport.

00:56:50.000 And in jujitsu now, I love jujitsu, but sport jujitsu isn't really fighting anymore.

00:56:57.000 All this barambolo and all these interesting stuff, they're beautiful.

00:57:00.000 It's fascinating.

00:57:01.000 It's an amazing sport.

00:57:02.000 But if we are in an environment where we are going to...

00:57:06.000 I think we're good to go.

00:57:24.000 Well, it can, but it also doesn't have to.

00:57:27.000 One of the things I really love about what John Donaher's doing with Eddie Cummins and Gary Tonin and these assassins that he's got out of Henzo's in New York is they're figuring out a way to use these leg lock transitions in a way that it's not dangerous to do.

00:57:43.000 The traditional thought was when a guy goes for a leg, and if you do it improperly, it is the truth. 0.99

00:57:48.000 You're committing two arms to the leg, and you're not going to be able to defend against punches.

00:57:52.000 We saw that with Frank Mir versus Ian the Machine Freeman.

00:57:55.000 Remember that fight? 0.98

00:57:56.000 Frank was going for that heel hook, and Ian just kept punching him in the fucking face, and he stopped him while he wasn't tapping, and he was just slamming him in the face. 0.95

00:58:05.000 Alan Belcher, when he was fighting, what's his name? 0.98

00:58:08.000 Paul Harris.

00:58:09.000 Yeah.

00:58:10.000 You don't see that anymore.

00:58:11.000 With the highest level jujitsu guys, they're putting themselves in a position, first of all, when a guy like Gary Tonin or Eddie Cummings grabs a hold of your leg, you have fractions of a second before your knee explodes.

00:58:23.000 Yeah.

00:58:23.000 And so the transitions and the technique is so tight, you don't have that space to swing wild punches.

00:58:30.000 They're not giving it to you.

00:58:31.000 They are putting you in a very, very dangerous spot immediately.

00:58:35.000 And it's the technique and the thought process behind it, and whether it's perfected by Donaher or a bunch of other people.

00:58:41.000 I know Dean Lister was initially a part of that as well.

00:58:43.000 He taught those guys a lot, and he was one of the early leg lock masters.

00:58:46.000 But these guys, they're doing it in a way where...

00:58:50.000 These techniques that I might have agreed with you just a few years ago really aren't for MMA, like the 50-50 and stuff like that.

00:58:57.000 You're seeing those really apply to MMA now.

00:59:00.000 The cool thing about fighting, like everything is fucking cool about fighting, you know?

00:59:07.000 But another in a long list of cool things is how the money that exists, like when we talk about why the UFC is a great thing, I think the UFC is an awesome thing.

00:59:19.000 When you monetize something, more study and things happen to it.

00:59:25.000 Yes.

00:59:42.000 Guys like Donaher will arc back with their study of the martial art back to where they get paid, which is fighting, which is the UFC. Well, it's interesting because you need a guy like a Donaher.

00:59:53.000 You need one of those genius guys to just try to figure out what's the best way to approach this.

00:59:59.000 Where are the problems?

01:00:00.000 Well, the problems keep happening when you're going into the transition and the guy grabs this leg.

01:00:05.000 Okay, how do we stop that?

01:00:07.000 Well, let's look at it backwards.

01:00:08.000 Let's attack it from this side. 0.95

01:00:10.000 Now, we're going to attack it this way.

01:00:12.000 So many times when guys would go for an arm bar from side control, you'd be in side control or you'd be in a mount, you'd grab an arm, you'd swing over, and you'd go and you'd commit to that arm, and then the legs would fly over for the defense.

01:00:25.000 Well, Eddie Bravo was one of the first guys to say, well, let's not hook it with the right arm.

01:00:31.000 Say if you're going for someone's right arm and you're trying to arm bar them, don't hook it with your right arm.

01:00:36.000 Hook it with the left and grab their leg with your other arm.

01:00:39.000 And then commit to it that way.

01:00:41.000 Because this way, you've stopped the defense and you've got a much more secure set of offense.

01:00:47.000 One of the reasons why people were going for it in the first place was because of the gi. 1.00

01:00:51.000 Now, the gi is a really interesting thing because I think the gi is very good defensively.

01:00:56.000 And I think defensively it's one of the best tools to make sure that you're using proper technique because you can't just explode out of things.

01:01:02.000 You have to use the right position.

01:01:04.000 You have to understand where you're in danger, where you're not in danger.

01:01:07.000 However, when it comes to attacking, the gi gives you so many more handles and so many more options that I think it's false security.

01:01:14.000 And I think you're way better off not using it to attack.

01:01:18.000 Yeah, I mean, that's a whole other part of the sport, too. 0.98

01:01:22.000 It's like, you roll with these gi guys, and they're sneaking this thing out, and you're like, oh shit, what is he doing? 1.00

01:01:27.000 And now, never mind the fact that that's going to work, just introducing that threat, and you're like, oh wait, what's happening there? 0.96

01:01:34.000 Now my brain isn't mindful where it's supposed to be.

01:01:36.000 It's worried about this, which might be nothing.

01:01:38.000 He's just pulling a piece of a gi. 1.00

01:01:40.000 It is fascinating.

01:01:41.000 Any kind of combat, any way that you put two people trying to best each other, it's going to be absolutely fascinating. 0.98

01:01:47.000 The geek guys are doing some weird shit, man, where they're like taking their jacket off and wrapping it around your head and strangling you with it.

01:01:53.000 Makes sense, though, if we're really going to use this thing, if it's going to be in there. 0.98

01:01:57.000 But fighting, too, it's like even how jiu-jitsu is used in fighting changes so much in such interesting ways, in ways that we've now seen happen over and over so many times that you can predict their future again.

01:02:09.000 Like, you know, the one example that I always kind of use is, you know, I'm in your guard, so I do a can opener, and then your guard opens.

01:02:20.000 And then you discover, hey, wait a second, I'll armbar that.

01:02:23.000 And you armbar me, so I'm in your guard, a can opener opens your guard, wait a second, you armbar me, no more can openers! 0.98

01:02:30.000 That doesn't make any fucking sense. 0.88

01:02:32.000 Danaher later goes, George, we're going to can open Condit. 0.98

01:02:35.000 But Danaher, what?

01:02:36.000 I don't do a good French accent.

01:02:39.000 But what about the armbar?

01:02:40.000 We're going to can open him and shut down the armbar.

01:02:43.000 We don't stop can opening because there's an armbar there.

01:02:46.000 We just solve the problem.

01:02:47.000 And that kind of adjustment, you see it now in the guard.

01:02:51.000 It blows my mind that in gyms everywhere, very smart coaches, they're like, the guard is dead.

01:02:57.000 We don't submit from the guard anymore.

01:02:58.000 We use the guard.

01:02:59.000 Watch Brian Ortega. 1.00

01:03:00.000 Yeah, fuck. 1.00

01:03:01.000 There's lots of good guys. 1.00

01:03:02.000 Ortega's a monster. 0.98

01:03:04.000 Jesus Christ. 1.00

01:03:05.000 But think of the implications of that.

01:03:08.000 This is where I see...

01:03:10.000 The crazy aspect of it, because we've seen this a million times.

01:03:13.000 So, all right, guys, we're not going to submit from guard.

01:03:16.000 Our use, when we are in guard, we're going to use it to get an underhook, threaten one of these three things, and heist their hips back out, and we're going to stand up.

01:03:24.000 We're going to work on our stand-up more, and for here, we're going to get back up.

01:03:28.000 Okay, coach, that's great.

01:03:29.000 So now for the next year and a half, your job on top of me becomes hold me down, stop my stand-up, and hit me.

01:03:37.000 And my job becomes fight you to get back up.

01:03:39.000 That happens for three months, six months, two years.

01:03:42.000 That becomes the game.

01:03:43.000 You hold me down and beat me up, and I try to get back to my feet. 0.96

01:03:48.000 Your game on top hasn't even involved the real threat of submissions for two fucking years because all your training partners are just standing up. 0.91

01:03:56.000 So you're getting weaker at dealing with submission threats because you never see them anymore. 0.88

01:04:01.000 Your training partners don't do them.

01:04:02.000 Somewhere in Eddie's gym, you got Ben Saunders and guys, they're working on it.

01:04:07.000 Not only are they getting better at it, You're getting worse at it.

01:04:10.000 As time goes on, you're getting worse at it.

01:04:13.000 Inevitably, all of a sudden, it's like the guard's back in play. 0.99

01:04:16.000 Holy shit, everybody's submitting guys off their back. 0.99

01:04:18.000 Why? 1.00

01:04:18.000 He got better, but you got worse. 1.00

01:04:20.000 The mindset of how to train that thing in the gym every day removed a very real threat because your training partners don't even throw it at you anymore.

01:04:28.000 And that thing changes, you know?

01:04:30.000 Yeah, you see that also with wrestlers that don't wrestle much anymore, because they're working on their striking, and they kind of put the wrestling aside, and then they get out-wrestled, and you realize, like, that's something you've got to stay on top of.

01:04:40.000 You've got to keep sharpening it.

01:04:41.000 Yeah, there's just so many different variables in MMA. It's one of the reasons why it's such an amazing sport, is there's so many different ways to go about it.

01:04:49.000 I mean, you can just decide to Damien Maia it, close the distance, get guys to the ground, use your superior jiu-jitsu, submit guys, and, you know, look like a wizard.

01:04:58.000 Or, you can Wonderboy it.

01:04:59.000 Where you're just standing up, I mean, boy, there's an interesting fight right there. 0.93

01:05:03.000 Damien Maia and Wonderboy, that is a very fucking interesting fight if that ever happens.

01:05:07.000 You know, Ramdeen and I, my partner, you met him at your show, we commentate a bunch of really old fights, and it's really cool.

01:05:16.000 Oh, that's nice.

01:05:16.000 Old Pancrase, we just did a couple of Condit's old fights against...

01:05:20.000 I can't remember.

01:05:21.000 I have an issue membering names.

01:05:24.000 I know it's because I got hit in the head a lot.

01:05:26.000 For real.

01:05:26.000 Or maybe it was like the drugs.

01:05:28.000 It was four days of heroin.

01:05:30.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:05:31.000 I literally was thinking of that on the way down here.

01:05:36.000 Old fights, and you see how different it was.

01:05:40.000 Like, you can spot the things where, like, now a guy would not do that, or he would do this.

01:05:44.000 But they just didn't know.

01:05:45.000 And that's why I think it's crazy that fighting is so structured in how it's trained now.

01:05:51.000 It's like, let's put it this way.

01:05:55.000 In 2030, does fighting look different than it does today?

01:05:58.000 Oh, yeah.

01:05:59.000 Then why are we training it like it isn't changing?

01:06:01.000 If we know that it is ever-changing, why are we digging in deep and saying, we got it all figured out, You got to train your Muay Thai.

01:06:10.000 You got to train this kind of wrestling.

01:06:11.000 Because someone will come along.

01:06:13.000 That's what taxis did.

01:06:14.000 That's what hotels did.

01:06:15.000 They were like, hotels, this is the way to do it.

01:06:18.000 We're going to build bigger hotels, better hotels.

01:06:19.000 We'll put pools in them.

01:06:21.000 We'll advertise them differently. 0.99

01:06:22.000 And somebody's like, people don't want fucking hotels. 0.98

01:06:25.000 Airbnb comes along, ruins hotels. 0.99

01:06:28.000 Isn't it really ruining hotels?

01:06:30.000 It's damaging them at the very least.

01:06:32.000 Really?

01:06:32.000 Yeah.

01:06:33.000 I mean, people, tons and tons of people just don't even consider it anymore.

01:06:37.000 When I was coming down to LA for the weekend, I was looking at how expensive hotels were.

01:06:41.000 I was thinking about it.

01:06:42.000 I don't really want to stay in someone's house, I don't know.

01:06:45.000 Yeah, that's kind of weird.

01:06:46.000 Although I have friends who do it all the time and they love it. 0.98

01:06:48.000 People have cameras and shit in there until they catch you beating off. 1.00

01:06:51.000 I never thought of that. 0.99

01:06:52.000 But now that that's in my head...

01:06:53.000 People have been caught.

01:06:54.000 Some woman was... 1.00

01:06:56.000 She was suing some man because he had set up hidden cameras that were on in this house.

01:07:03.000 Man, what's wrong with us, you know?

01:07:05.000 We want to see somebody naked. 0.64

01:07:06.000 Yeah, well, but the internet's full of naked. 0.99

01:07:09.000 There's naked everywhere. 0.56

01:07:10.000 I know, it doesn't matter.

01:07:11.000 People want naughty.

01:07:13.000 They want to be able to do things they're not supposed to do.

01:07:16.000 Yeah, I guess.

01:07:18.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:07:18.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:07:20.000 There's something creepy about spying on somebody.

01:07:23.000 Yeah, it is creepy. 0.99

01:07:24.000 You could just go to YouPorn and watch people fuck all day long, but they don't want to. 0.99

01:07:28.000 Well, as soon as you think about the fact that somebody's spying on you, that feeling that you get proves that it's creepy. 0.99

01:07:34.000 Oh, yeah.

01:07:34.000 You know what I mean?

01:07:36.000 Well, the technology, it's never been available before.

01:07:40.000 Where someone could remotely watch you in your own home, like, fairly easily.

01:07:44.000 Yeah.

01:07:46.000 You know, just 10, 20 years ago, if they wanted to do something like that, they had to set up some pretty elaborate equipment.

01:07:51.000 Now they use little tiny cameras.

01:07:53.000 They're so small.

01:07:54.000 A little GoPro or something like that.

01:07:55.000 Set it up somewhere.

01:07:56.000 It can remotely access it.

01:07:58.000 They have a bunch of different kinds of cameras they can remotely access.

01:08:01.000 Sure.

01:08:01.000 Freaky.

01:08:04.000 That's outside the point.

01:08:05.000 Yeah, but when you think about any kind of technology, you can use it for good.

01:08:09.000 You can use it to advance things.

01:08:10.000 You can use it to make things better.

01:08:12.000 You can use it for bad.

01:08:13.000 And I think there's a real perspective thing, I think, with the way that we look at things, the way that people look at things.

01:08:21.000 It's like the perspective that you take is everything.

01:08:25.000 If you look at something, somebody says something to you.

01:08:29.000 You give all this meaning to it and you assume you know what they mean and then you get mad.

01:08:34.000 You don't have to do that.

01:08:35.000 You can like just assign it no meaning at all and have whatever response you want.

01:08:40.000 That kind of perspective is you come across a camera and you go, well, wouldn't this be cool?

01:08:44.000 We can like film guys training and we can like come up with all these cool things.

01:08:47.000 I can do my job different.

01:08:49.000 Or somebody's like naked people without their permission.

01:08:52.000 That's what we got to do, you know?

01:08:54.000 Well, it's just... 1.00

01:08:55.000 Assholes. 1.00

01:08:56.000 You're always going to have assholes. 1.00

01:08:57.000 You know, we were talking about like fighting today versus fighting 30 years from now. 1.00

01:09:03.000 Why don't we train like it's going to be 30 years from now?

01:09:05.000 I think one of the problems is we need to see it be successful. 0.97

01:09:08.000 Like you need to see a guy like Wonderboy fight where you go, okay, we got to learn some fucking sport karate. 0.87

01:09:14.000 We've got to figure out how to do that blitz. 0.94

01:09:15.000 We've got to figure out how to slide back and throw those kicks the way they're doing it. 1.00

01:09:18.000 And I still, to this day, think we haven't seen the level of traditional martial arts techniques that exist in a really good Taekwondo match or a really good Kyokushin match.

01:09:30.000 There are guys in these other sports.

01:09:32.000 You've seen some guys like Muntasri, who's fighting the UFC, who's a national champion. 1.00

01:09:37.000 Yeah, he's a bad motherfucker with his kicks. 0.97

01:09:40.000 So you're seeing him, but he's got to learn all that other stuff first. 0.99

01:09:45.000 He's got to get, I mean he had to rather, learn all that other stuff first, get better at all these other techniques.

01:09:50.000 And perhaps there's going to be some guys that are even better or more powerful than him.

01:09:55.000 You know, these traditional techniques, I think, are probably the most underused or the most underappreciated aspects of MMA. I mean, when we saw Anderson front kick Vitor in the face, and it was like the first time we'd ever seen that,

01:10:11.000 we're like, this is crazy that the first kick ever that they teach you is now the new kick.

01:10:17.000 Yeah.

01:10:17.000 I know you had Boss on earlier, and I didn't get to see it.

01:10:20.000 I love Boss.

01:10:21.000 And he used to say straight up, no jabs. 0.96

01:10:24.000 Jabs and fighting are useless. 1.00

01:10:25.000 Now, that was a different era.

01:10:27.000 Now he would say something different, I'm sure.

01:10:28.000 But he was, the people, they were products of eras.

01:10:31.000 And then that other era, well, we can't front kick.

01:10:34.000 Well, why not?

01:10:35.000 Well, we'll get taken down.

01:10:37.000 Well, don't get taken down.

01:10:39.000 Just like that can opener in the arm bar.

01:10:42.000 If you get taken down, or whatever the issue was, but say the issue is getting taken down.

01:10:46.000 If you get taken down off the front kick, it doesn't mean don't front kick.

01:10:49.000 It means front kick can figure out how to stop the fact that you're going to get taken down.

01:10:52.000 Well, you see the guys who are really good at that front kick.

01:10:55.000 It's such a danger, like Kyle Noak when he won that fight in Australia.

01:10:59.000 Yeah.

01:11:00.000 Those – some – I swear some of these guys – Shane Campbell's fighting, I think, Sunday.

01:11:04.000 Yeah.

01:11:05.000 And he's got a few finishes with their toe stabs.

01:11:07.000 And I think some of the ones – I keep pointing at this Conor doll because it looks funny.

01:11:11.000 The – I think some of the ones he hit Mendez with were toe stabs.

01:11:14.000 Just roll the toes back and drill them in.

01:11:16.000 And – So you're saying like roll the toes back down instead of pulling them back?

01:11:22.000 Instead of pulling them back like with the ball of your foot like Taekwondo, make them like a fist.

01:11:26.000 Like roll them and then they stab it into the body.

01:11:28.000 Really?

01:11:29.000 Yeah, an old Thai technique. 0.88

01:11:31.000 Yeah, if you Google Shane Campbell toe stab, you'll probably see one of his fights right before he got in the UFC. But lots, I bet some of them are doing that.

01:11:40.000 Now the ball of the foot we can penetrate pretty deep, but when they commit to like literally drilling it in, And it penetrates in and touches your organs.

01:11:49.000 The thing that gets to me, though, is that I feel like I could kick through a door with a ball on my foot.

01:11:53.000 That's your lifetime.

01:11:54.000 But with my toe, I'm not going to be able to have that kind of impact. 0.96

01:11:57.000 So if you do that toe stab and you hit an elbow, you're kind of fucksville.

01:12:02.000 Well, I guess that's the risk of it.

01:12:04.000 The reason you can do that is you did it since you were a little kid, over and over, thousands and thousands of times.

01:12:09.000 And it is harder, and it is safer, and it is smarter.

01:12:12.000 But if you know that that spot is there, I mean, all of these things have to be the next answers.

01:12:19.000 Because the next answer isn't, just do what we're all doing, only better.

01:12:23.000 I mean, and it was kind of like, who was it?

01:12:28.000 Matt Hughes' coach.

01:12:31.000 He was from that- Pat Miletic?

01:12:33.000 Yeah, Miletic. 0.99

01:12:34.000 Miletic and Frank Shamrock and these guys were like, okay, well, you were a wrestler and I was a striker and that's all these things.

01:12:41.000 I just got to get really pretty good at all those things.

01:12:44.000 That worked for a while, but now that everybody knows every single choice that you're making in every single position, we're just playing within these rules that we've kind of agreed on.

01:12:54.000 It's gotta be some other stuff.

01:12:55.000 It's gotta be things that you don't train.

01:12:57.000 It's gotta be things you haven't dealt with.

01:12:58.000 It's gotta be things your training partners don't show you.

01:13:00.000 That has to be the next answer.

01:13:02.000 It has to always be the next answer.

01:13:04.000 Yeah, I think movement is the big focus right now, right?

01:13:08.000 With Edo and with...

01:13:11.000 Erwin.

01:13:12.000 Yeah, Erwin, LaCour, Nick Curzon focuses a lot on movement, a lot of plyometrics and explosion drills and movement drills.

01:13:20.000 And I think they're realizing now that what's the glue in between the techniques is what they're really concentrating on.

01:13:27.000 I think that was a big factor in the Johnny Hendrix Wonderboy Thompson fight.

01:13:31.000 For sure.

01:13:31.000 Was the movement.

01:13:32.000 The movement and the fact that Hendrix is so much more stationary.

01:13:37.000 Yeah.

01:13:37.000 He just really wasn't able to close those distances or get out of the way.

01:13:40.000 Didn't have that kind of footwork.

01:13:41.000 And his game was just so dependent upon close-range fighting.

01:13:45.000 Yeah, he said, you know, I kind of hoped he would trade in the pocket with me more. 0.99

01:13:49.000 Why the fuck would he do that? 0.99

01:13:51.000 He shouldn't do that. 1.00

01:13:52.000 He should definitely not do that.

01:13:54.000 I feel like...

01:13:55.000 Should have said, I kind of hoped he would fall down.

01:13:57.000 Yeah.

01:13:59.000 I feel like I know why McGregor started doing that movement training.

01:14:03.000 I could be wrong.

01:14:04.000 I'm going to hopefully get the chance to ask him.

01:14:06.000 But remember last time that I was here, we talked about that flow state?

01:14:10.000 You know, when you achieve that flow state?

01:14:12.000 The best guys are fighting that 100%.

01:14:15.000 And that state of freedom, right?

01:14:18.000 And Condit was one of the first guys I really spotted that kind of did that earlier before we chatted about it last time.

01:14:24.000 And so you're seeing that a lot.

01:14:26.000 When you're in a true flow state, you are free, innovative, able to do things you weren't aware of, fully present in the moment.

01:14:34.000 There's all of these things.

01:14:36.000 It's about sort of true freedom.

01:14:39.000 I think he believed that his body – his mind and his goals were freer than his body was allowing him to be.

01:14:48.000 That if he was truly mentally free to fight, that the thing that was stopping him was his physical movement limitations.

01:14:55.000 And I really believe that's why he went and pursued that kind of open movement because we're not going to become any freer than in a peak performance state.

01:15:02.000 So we have to free up our body if we're going to go further with this.

01:15:05.000 Well, it makes sense if you look at what people...

01:15:08.000 Well, George St. Pierre, in a lot of ways, was ahead of the curve with this because of his gymnastics approach. 0.99

01:15:13.000 But really, the originator of this shit is Hickson. 0.94

01:15:17.000 If you go back and watch Hickson, when Hickson was into the gymnastica natriale, he was into a lot of crazy yoga things, a lot of flexibility and balance things. 0.99

01:15:27.000 He was into that way, way before anybody was.

01:15:31.000 Bruce Lee was into...

01:15:32.000 Building the body to do martial arts too in whatever ways you can figure and you were just saying it half an hour ago I don't know how long it's been that You tell jujitsu guys you got to get strong.

01:15:43.000 Yeah, you know you identified that Hickson identified that all that long ago.

01:15:48.000 He's like, okay We figured out how we're gonna move it now What about what can I do with my body to enhance that or take that further Eddie with his flexibility?

01:15:55.000 Yes, well Hickson was always the best out of all the Gracie's he's widely regarded as the greatest jujitsu artist ever and So if you look at Hickson in comparison to all the other ones, like Hoist when he was fighting, what was so impressive about Hoist was that he wasn't a specimen.

01:16:09.000 And he was just a regular guy who was in shape, obviously, but had really good technique.

01:16:14.000 What Hickson is, is that really good technique with a freak athletic body.

01:16:19.000 You know, a guy who can stand on a balance beam and do a full split holding onto his heel.

01:16:23.000 I mean, he's really freakish in his ability to move his body.

01:16:27.000 And physical strength was a huge factor in his ability as well.

01:16:31.000 So if you look at Hicks in the old days in comparison to the other guys, you're seeing a much more physically robust guy.

01:16:39.000 Much stronger.

01:16:40.000 And because of that, he was able to overcome.

01:16:43.000 Like, if you get two guys, they both have equal technique, but one guy is much stronger.

01:16:47.000 That guy's going to dominate.

01:16:48.000 Yeah.

01:16:48.000 And that's just the way it is.

01:16:50.000 You know, technique is hugely important.

01:16:52.000 It's probably the most important thing.

01:16:53.000 But once that's covered, physical strength is a huge attribute.

01:16:57.000 Huge.

01:16:58.000 So then the physical strength becomes equal now.

01:17:01.000 So then I work that up.

01:17:02.000 Flexibility and movement.

01:17:03.000 Then it becomes flexibility and movement.

01:17:04.000 And when that's equal, it's just our minds.

01:17:06.000 Like, who's going to win this?

01:17:07.000 Being more creative.

01:17:08.000 Being more creative.

01:17:09.000 Who's more in the zone?

01:17:10.000 Who's more loose?

01:17:11.000 Who can pull the trigger easier?

01:17:13.000 Psychological training.

01:17:14.000 It's a huge factor.

01:17:16.000 Huge.

01:17:16.000 A lot of guys are getting into...

01:17:18.000 Hypnosis now.

01:17:19.000 You know, I got hypnotized.

01:17:21.000 Vinny Shorman hypnotized me.

01:17:22.000 Wow.

01:17:23.000 Here?

01:17:23.000 Yeah, here.

01:17:24.000 I wanted to see what it was like.

01:17:25.000 He came and did the podcast, and he had been training.

01:17:28.000 He's trained a bunch of guys.

01:17:29.000 He works with Joe Schilling and a bunch of different kickboxers and Muay Thai guys, and I just wanted to know what it was all about.

01:17:36.000 And what was it like?

01:17:37.000 It's legit, man.

01:17:38.000 It's legit.

01:17:39.000 You know, I was like, okay, what is hypnosis? 1.00

01:17:41.000 Is it bullshit? 0.99

01:17:42.000 Did you try to fight it? 1.00

01:17:42.000 No. 1.00

01:17:43.000 No?

01:17:43.000 No, I didn't want to do that.

01:17:45.000 I wanted him to hypnotize me, see what it's like.

01:17:47.000 You definitely go into a state.

01:17:49.000 You definitely go into some strange state of consciousness.

01:17:53.000 I wouldn't say you're asleep, because I heard him talking.

01:17:57.000 You know, I remember hearing Vinny's voice, but I was most certainly hypnotized.

01:18:01.000 Wow.

01:18:02.000 I was definitely there.

01:18:03.000 Wow.

01:18:03.000 You know, and it's like you're going into like...

01:18:07.000 Almost like a drug-induced...

01:18:09.000 It feels real weird.

01:18:11.000 That's what I felt like for four days.

01:18:13.000 I don't think it's quite that bad.

01:18:15.000 But it's a very strange state.

01:18:19.000 It's very difficult to describe it and compare it to something else because I don't think I've ever experienced anything like it other than maybe a state that you get into sometimes when you're doing like a sensory deprivation tank or I guess you would do if you were doing like heavy meditation.

01:18:35.000 You get into some weird...

01:18:37.000 Alternative state of consciousness.

01:18:39.000 Wow.

01:18:40.000 A lot of guys do visualizing training, but with a A lot of the coaches wouldn't call themselves a hypnotist, but they lead it.

01:18:50.000 So they lead you through it.

01:18:52.000 You've got your eyes closed.

01:18:53.000 And David does it with some of the SPG guys and other people.

01:18:56.000 And he says, as you're getting them to go through and visualize it, you see them moving.

01:19:01.000 You see them sweating.

01:19:02.000 They are experiencing the fight in their mind.

01:19:05.000 They are visualizing everything.

01:19:07.000 And it's probably very similar.

01:19:10.000 But you lead you through it, and at the end, they feel tired.

01:19:13.000 They feel mentally tired.

01:19:15.000 They've done it.

01:19:16.000 And that idea that you visualize—I mean, if we do something, our brain is doing it.

01:19:21.000 So if we don't physically do it, but our brain does it, you definitely get huge, real, true value from that.

01:19:27.000 Well, it's been proven.

01:19:28.000 It's been proven that people can improve as much through visualization as they can from actual physical movement, as long as you actually commit to it. 0.96

01:19:35.000 And, you know, don't be all fucking weird and, like, half-ass it. 0.84

01:19:39.000 You have to think of it as if you're doing it. 0.98

01:19:42.000 And if you can think of it as if you're doing it, your mind will take those same pathways.

01:19:46.000 I know that guys have learned new jujitsu techniques that way.

01:19:49.000 Like, you visualize yourself pulling them off, and then when you're training, they just come.

01:19:54.000 They just come to you.

01:19:55.000 So wild.

01:19:56.000 That just shows you what your brain can do and why it is the most important part.

01:19:59.000 I mean, by the time we've learned how to do everything, we're going to fight, and you're walking down there, and if you haven't prepared mentally, everything else was a waste of time.

01:20:09.000 If you can't go in there and be in an optimum state, Free of worrying about the consequences.

01:20:14.000 I need my win bonus or what if I lose this fight?

01:20:18.000 You can't have any of that.

01:20:19.000 You have to be truly free to perform.

01:20:24.000 Guys will spend years training the physicality and the technical stuff and then not have a plan for that.

01:20:29.000 When Cruz said that, you know, ring rust or octagon shock or whatever is...

01:20:35.000 Octagon rust.

01:20:36.000 Yeah, rust is not real.

01:20:37.000 I 100% believe that.

01:20:39.000 I 100% agree with him.

01:20:40.000 It's real if you think it's real.

01:20:43.000 Right.

01:20:43.000 It's not real if it's not real to you.

01:20:45.000 But the way it became not real to him is he prepared for it.

01:20:49.000 Yeah.

01:20:49.000 You know?

01:20:50.000 This is the second time I'm in this room.

01:20:52.000 I'm more comfortable in it than I was last time.

01:20:55.000 Jamie and you are way more comfortable than Brendan Schaub, who's more comfortable than me.

01:21:10.000 Right, right, right.

01:21:21.000 If you haven't prepared for that, the next thing you know, you either wake up or you somehow won, but you really don't remember anything.

01:21:29.000 You're looking at him and it's like, that can't be the first time that you've looked at Bruce Buffer.

01:21:33.000 It has to have been in your mind 30 times.

01:21:35.000 It's like, right, this is where I belong.

01:21:38.000 I'm supposed to be here.

01:21:39.000 I belong here.

01:21:40.000 I earned my way here. 0.99

01:21:41.000 Fucking right Bruce Buffer's introducing me because the whole world's going to see how fucking good I am. 0.99

01:21:45.000 You can't be like, oh shit, when you see the UFC. There's Joe Rogan over there. 0.99

01:21:50.000 It's like, Yeah, you can't.

01:21:52.000 That can't be new.

01:21:53.000 That has to have happened dozens or hundreds of times in your mind when you go in there.

01:21:58.000 It's interesting because a lot of these guys, their mental preparation is just doing it and learning once you've done it.

01:22:03.000 Instead of preparing for it, and then once you're actually doing it, you go, this is what I've prepared for.

01:22:08.000 For sure.

01:22:09.000 And even just all the way along, like...

01:22:14.000 We all should learn stuff.

01:22:15.000 That's what I say all the time.

01:22:17.000 Sometimes I'll use an example of something that I do or my friend does or whatever.

01:22:21.000 And I don't mean to put it back to myself.

01:22:23.000 I'm saying we should all try to do this.

01:22:25.000 You look and you prepare for stuff and you go back and it's the work.

01:22:29.000 It was the work that you did.

01:22:31.000 That's what matters.

01:22:32.000 You're just a guy.

01:22:34.000 But you're a guy who worked like crazy, prepared like crazy, made notes of the things that you did.

01:22:39.000 When you can go back and look at your journal or your notes and see everything you've done in the day or afternoon of that fight, that stuff is fighting.

01:22:48.000 All of your work is fighting.

01:22:50.000 All you got to go in there and have fun.

01:22:52.000 The work's been done.

01:22:53.000 That's the state you have to be in.

01:22:54.000 And the reason I mentioned, I have a stack of every breakdown I've ever done.

01:22:58.000 All the work, every note, and it's like this high.

01:23:01.000 And I bring that with me.

01:23:02.000 When I went to meet Dana and Craig, I had that in my suitcase when I went down to meet them in Vegas because I look at that and it's like, right, I'm supposed to be here.

01:23:10.000 I worked really hard on this stuff.

01:23:12.000 I'm supposed to be talking to these guys.

01:23:13.000 This is where I'm supposed to be.

01:23:15.000 If I don't have that, you can be like, what should I, what do I, you know, you can't be questioning.

01:23:20.000 You have to look at all the work that you did.

01:23:22.000 And on that walk to the cage, I had terrible performances and I had one or two good ones.

01:23:26.000 And the best one was the last one because I understood what state you were supposed to be in.

01:23:31.000 You couldn't be scared.

01:23:32.000 You couldn't be angry.

01:23:33.000 You couldn't be out to get them. 0.99

01:23:34.000 You had to be fucking free. 0.99

01:23:36.000 You love martial arts. 1.00

01:23:38.000 You love fighting.

01:23:39.000 This is what you wanted to do.

01:23:40.000 You don't have to be here.

01:23:41.000 You get to be here.

01:23:43.000 That's the state you have to be in.

01:23:46.000 When you do a breakdown, say if you do a breakdown for Conor McGregor and Rafael dos Anjos, how do you begin?

01:23:52.000 What do you do?

01:23:54.000 Do you watch footage?

01:23:55.000 Do you think about what you already know?

01:23:58.000 How do you begin a breakdown?

01:24:02.000 I got to know what the point is.

01:24:04.000 And the point is, like I said, to influence the way people watch fighting in a way that's positive.

01:24:11.000 So make them learn stuff.

01:24:12.000 And you hope it influences other people who influence stuff.

01:24:16.000 Because you want people to take, you want to inject these ideas into the world.

01:24:20.000 So that has to be where you start.

01:24:22.000 If you start from that point, it's not to, I got to earn money or I got to like get clicks, nothing. 0.63

01:24:28.000 I want people to see how fucking amazing this is.

01:24:32.000 So you start from that point. 0.96

01:24:33.000 That point could be months in advance.

01:24:38.000 Then there's things that you've been watching and studying and looking at in full immersion.

01:24:42.000 Things like, you know, this movement stuff that we're talking about or comparisons that you make of how people work against the cage and compare to another sport or all these ideas are all floating around.

01:24:52.000 Hopefully you've got 50 of them. 0.97

01:24:54.000 And then the fight comes up, and you see, oh fuck, it's Conor McGregor and Rafael Dos Anjos. 0.98

01:25:00.000 That's got to start brewing. 0.97

01:25:01.000 I know, I asked Craig, they accepted mine today, so the next one is Jones and Cormier.

01:25:06.000 I'm on that already.

01:25:07.000 What's going on in that fight?

01:25:09.000 Do I look back at their other fight?

01:25:11.000 Do I look at how they do?

01:25:14.000 What is happening?

01:25:15.000 What happened?

01:25:16.000 What's going to happen?

01:25:17.000 How's it going to happen? 0.98

01:25:18.000 And where's the fucking cool in it? 0.98

01:25:20.000 So that starts immediately. 0.98

01:25:22.000 And then you go, you might have a couple of ideas.

01:25:24.000 You might have some, oh, well, you know, range, man.

01:25:26.000 There's this four ranges kind of thing I've been playing around with.

01:25:29.000 And I did it in the Ronda one, but they didn't release it as that version.

01:25:34.000 So that sure applies to Jon Jones.

01:25:38.000 So it'll start.

01:25:38.000 I'll start thinking about it in terms of four different ranges and how we manage it.

01:25:42.000 So they edit your versions?

01:25:43.000 No, I sent in multiple versions for that one.

01:25:47.000 Only because they were like, they didn't know what I did or how I did it or how I work with them or whatever.

01:25:52.000 Actually, it's been super cool.

01:25:53.000 Like, I send it in, they're like, wow, it's great, and put it out.

01:25:56.000 But the first one, Dana was like, well, can you give me like a four-minute version, a five-minute version, a one-minute?

01:26:01.000 I just want for him to wrap his head around it.

01:26:04.000 So the first one that I sent in was many different ones.

01:26:07.000 And then since then, they've been fucking super cool.

01:26:11.000 They're just like, hey, I think this guy's good at this. 0.65

01:26:13.000 Yeah, go do that thing you do, which is exactly what you hope, right?

01:26:16.000 Oh, yeah, that's what you want, man.

01:26:18.000 But that one, now you sent them multiple, and it was mostly just so they could wrap their head around it.

01:26:22.000 Also, you're...

01:26:24.000 I mean, you're working in a company.

01:26:26.000 They've got to figure out, who is this guy?

01:26:28.000 You know, he talks fast.

01:26:30.000 He seems enthusiastic.

01:26:31.000 Is he smart?

01:26:31.000 Is he easy to work with?

01:26:33.000 How does he take direction?

01:26:34.000 You know, so you've got to figure all that stuff out.

01:26:36.000 But I think they figured out pretty quick.

01:26:37.000 He's like, oh yeah, he just likes doing this stuff and he does a good job.

01:26:40.000 Well, you're very, very committed to it.

01:26:43.000 And if you were smart and you were running a business, and obviously the UFC is very smart, they'd look at a guy like you and they'd go, just tell him to do it.

01:26:50.000 He's going to do it.

01:26:50.000 He likes doing it.

01:26:51.000 He's going to do it right.

01:26:52.000 You're going to do it right.

01:26:54.000 That's how it's been.

01:26:54.000 They don't need to give you much direction.

01:26:55.000 Yeah, that's how it's been.

01:26:58.000 But in that one.

01:26:59.000 So yeah, so I'll look at it.

01:27:00.000 And now I've got like, that fight is not for eight weeks.

01:27:04.000 So I'll still do other breakdowns at Fight Network in the meantime.

01:27:08.000 They're a family.

01:27:10.000 I do 40 hours a week of TV there.

01:27:13.000 And I build these around.

01:27:14.000 Do you really?

01:27:14.000 You do 40 hours a week?

01:27:16.000 At least.

01:27:16.000 Not of hours.

01:27:17.000 Not of hours of TV, but I'm in there five days a week.

01:27:20.000 We're a 24-hour fight channel.

01:27:23.000 Is that on in America?

01:27:24.000 It's on Xbox and all those other things.

01:27:29.000 Xbox.

01:27:30.000 Like Roku and all of that kind of stuff.

01:27:33.000 And then it's in the tri-state area and it's in Texas.

01:27:36.000 It doesn't have national carriage, but it's got pockets of carriage.

01:27:40.000 It seemed like a no-brainer.

01:27:42.000 There was a channel that just had fights on all the time.

01:27:45.000 How many times have you been flipping through the channel, bored, looking for something, and you go, well, I'll always go find something on the fight channel.

01:27:51.000 Yeah, and I mean, in Canada, the timing was pretty good because George was a big star.

01:27:56.000 Right now, in Ireland, fighting is the thing because Conor's over there.

01:27:59.000 And Canada was like that.

01:28:00.000 And that allowed us to kind of get entrenched in there.

01:28:03.000 But when all day every day is fighting, literally it's like there are times, hey, Robin and John and John, go and talk about this news.

01:28:11.000 So I'll do – on a Monday, we'll do five rounds, which is an analysis show.

01:28:15.000 We'll do two or more chats of what's going on in the news.

01:28:18.000 I'll do five rounds today, which is a podcast version, but it's for television.

01:28:22.000 Mm-hmm.

01:28:23.000 And then on Tuesday, we'll do similar stuff.

01:28:25.000 And then call two hours of old vintage pancreas. 0.89

01:28:29.000 And then the next day, call two hours of deep out of Japan.

01:28:32.000 So all day, all the time. 0.96

01:28:34.000 So for me, this is a fucking amazing thing, right? 0.91

01:28:37.000 Because this is my life's work. 0.94

01:28:39.000 It's my job and passion and obsession.

01:28:42.000 And I get to do it all day.

01:28:44.000 But I do that, and I'm now making these breakdowns.

01:28:48.000 So they have to happen around that.

01:28:50.000 But all day long, you've got to be ready.

01:28:53.000 It hits you or you pick up on something or there's a sea change or there's some kind of little movement going on in something.

01:28:58.000 Well, I got a breakdown in six weeks.

01:29:00.000 Maybe I can explore that for that.

01:29:02.000 Then you get excited.

01:29:03.000 The Connor one, I'm very interested in this guy.

01:29:09.000 I look at these guys.

01:29:11.000 Chris Weidman's work ethic.

01:29:12.000 That taught me how to work really hard.

01:29:14.000 I always kind of worked hard, but you look at this guy.

01:29:16.000 Okay, that's how winners work.

01:29:18.000 And then McGregor's growth mentality.

01:29:21.000 It's like, okay.

01:29:21.000 Hey, that's how I'm gonna get better and better and better.

01:29:24.000 And he's innovating.

01:29:24.000 I gotta innovate.

01:29:25.000 If I innovate, you want other people to spread the idea.

01:29:30.000 I want people to rip my stuff off.

01:29:32.000 Cause then they'll rip off what I did a year ago.

01:29:35.000 And then a year from now, I'll do new stuff.

01:29:37.000 Like you want it all to influence how people see fighting.

01:29:40.000 Cause I think fighting is the coolest thing.

01:29:42.000 And if they see it through my eyes, they'll think that too.

01:29:45.000 You know, but you want, you know, so you, you cop, you learn about innovating from him.

01:29:50.000 You look at what Rhonda's going through and you learn how do people deal with that?

01:29:54.000 How would I deal with that?

01:29:56.000 I'm super attached to all of these people and these things and these experiences and I kind of get to live them out and learn from them.

01:30:04.000 When you look at Conor and Rafael dos Anjos, how do you think that is going down?

01:30:12.000 There's obviously a bunch of different ways they can interact with each other once the cage door shuts and the fight begins. 0.99

01:30:18.000 How do you perceive it?

01:30:20.000 Well, I go through...

01:30:23.000 Fighting gets more and more and more complicated.

01:30:26.000 And then you go through these periods where it gets really, really simple.

01:30:29.000 And then it gets more and more complicated again.

01:30:31.000 That's kind of the process of my learning.

01:30:33.000 And right now, I'm looking at it kind of simply.

01:30:35.000 Obviously, Connor wants to get...

01:30:37.000 Connor has a left hand that knocks people out.

01:30:40.000 So almost everything he kind of built was to put himself into situations to hit guys with his left hand and knock them unconscious.

01:30:46.000 So that's our job. 0.88

01:30:47.000 We need to knock you unconscious with this. 1.00

01:30:49.000 So what are some of the problems that could prevent that from happening?

01:30:52.000 Well, you can get a hold of me.

01:30:54.000 You can push me up against a cage.

01:30:55.000 You can do all these things.

01:30:56.000 And what are the ways that I could increase the likelihood of doing that? 1.00

01:31:00.000 Well, I can fuck with you. 1.00

01:31:01.000 That seems to help. 1.00

01:31:02.000 Works for everybody who's good at it. 0.99

01:31:04.000 But ultimately, if Dos Anjos puts him on his back, he's in real fucking trouble. 0.99

01:31:09.000 He's in real fucking trouble. 0.99

01:31:10.000 I agree. 0.99

01:31:11.000 This is not kind of a pretty good jiu-jitsu guy.

01:31:14.000 This is a vicious, violent guy who will happily stay on your guard until he caves your face in, until you overreact, and then he'll start passing, then he'll start abusing.

01:31:24.000 You're in trouble.

01:31:26.000 But, at the same time...

01:31:28.000 We can't look at it and go, I must stay off the ground at all costs, because that infringes on Conor's being Conor.

01:31:34.000 So he has to play the game that Stephen Thompson played.

01:31:36.000 That has to be...

01:31:37.000 That's the game most of these guys are looking to try to do right now.

01:31:41.000 The thing about Dos Anjos, though, he's very fast.

01:31:43.000 He's very good at closing the distance.

01:31:45.000 I was really shocked in the Pettis fight, how quickly he pulled the trigger.

01:31:50.000 And how he leaves no space.

01:31:51.000 He leaves no space for you to analyze his movement and prepare to counter.

01:31:56.000 He's on you before you could get that breathing room.

01:31:59.000 The Pettis one is definitely...

01:32:01.000 This was one of the ways I was going to break it down.

01:32:03.000 So when you're looking at it, there starts to be multiple different ways because no thing is one thing.

01:32:08.000 There's 50 things.

01:32:09.000 One of them was Dos Anjos might be looking at this as, this is similar to the Pettis fight.

01:32:15.000 And so what would you do different if you were Conor, if your job was to beat this guy?

01:32:22.000 Pettis didn't move laterally very much because he's also really good at, and him and Duke and lots of people have been working on, as you back up, delivering with power.

01:32:32.000 So back up, a lot of it has to do with the stomp of the back foot.

01:32:35.000 Bam! 0.98

01:32:36.000 And so they were working on that.

01:32:38.000 This guy is a pressure fighter.

01:32:40.000 As he moves forward, we're going to rip him, we're going to hurt him, we're going to drop him, we're going to discourage him.

01:32:44.000 Just never got it off.

01:32:46.000 Somewhere, now my orbital bone is broken.

01:32:49.000 My idea of lulling you in and hurting you bad isn't working.

01:32:54.000 The adjustment is we've got to start moving laterally.

01:32:57.000 And he never really did that.

01:32:58.000 Pettis broke his orbital in that fight?

01:32:58.000 Yeah, in the first round.

01:32:59.000 That first punch, that hard left hand?

01:33:01.000 Yeah.

01:33:02.000 Wow.

01:33:02.000 Now, the one...

01:33:04.000 So then we're looking at it where Conor and his people, and they're taking a positive approach to it.

01:33:10.000 What can we exploit?

01:33:11.000 One thing Dos Eños does really, the only thing that he, if you're looking at it and going, what one thing jumps out as less than perfect for this killer champion, and that he really telegraphs his punches.

01:33:24.000 He telegraphs them a lot.

01:33:25.000 You see it.

01:33:26.000 And when I break things down, I'll watch fights in slow motion, sometimes dozens of times.

01:33:31.000 And now that's all I see.

01:33:34.000 Did you see the video that somebody put together?

01:33:35.000 It's like an animated GIF file of Aldo Chasing after Conor, Conor landing the left hand, and then the same exact movement by Dos Anjos, chasing after Pettis, or chasing after Donald, rather.

01:33:49.000 But Donald doesn't land the punch.

01:33:52.000 Like, you see very similar movement.

01:33:54.000 He sees...

01:33:55.000 That's what he says.

01:33:56.000 He sees...

01:33:57.000 Now when I look at him, he does, and I'm a...

01:34:02.000 I actually hate to criticize in any way.

01:34:06.000 I don't feel comfortable with it.

01:34:07.000 I don't feel qualified to criticize.

01:34:09.000 And that's just a personal thing.

01:34:10.000 I don't think other people shouldn't.

01:34:12.000 I'm looking at 90 to 99th percentile fighters.

01:34:17.000 And I'm some guy who won a couple of fights and was terrible in fights.

01:34:22.000 And I don't feel qualified to always criticize because...

01:34:30.000 I don't even know if it's necessary.

01:34:32.000 I feel like the way I look at fights, the way I try to look at fights is I look at them like we're looking at mathematics.

01:34:38.000 I'm looking at like there's an equation going on and one there's values and there's numbers in one side and there's values and numbers on the other side.

01:34:47.000 What's fascinating to me about this fight is there's equations Where you have to factor in many things.

01:34:54.000 You have to factor in power.

01:34:55.000 You have to factor in technique.

01:34:57.000 You have to factor in the ability to execute.

01:34:59.000 And you also have to factor in persona and personality and just charisma.

01:35:05.000 And that's one of the things that Conor brings to the table that's hard to monetize.

01:35:10.000 Or not monetize.

01:35:11.000 It's hard to quantify. 0.99

01:35:12.000 It's hard to measure how much he fucked with Aldo's head. 1.00

01:35:16.000 Sure. 1.00

01:35:16.000 Before Aldo just chased after him and get lit up like that. 1.00

01:35:19.000 I mean, what was it that caused that?

01:35:22.000 There's many possible factors, but all these movements and interactions that they have, I think you can almost look at them like a mathematical exchange.

01:35:33.000 Like, there's certain guys...

01:35:35.000 Ed Shortfuse Herman, great guy, tough guy, very good fighter.

01:35:40.000 You're never going to confuse him with Wonderboy Thompson when it comes to his footwork and his movement.

01:35:45.000 If you looked at those two guys mathematically, you looked at them as an equation, you would go, this side is very lopsided in its movement.

01:35:53.000 If you have $100 in one hand and $10 in the other hand, the $100 is worth more than $10.

01:36:00.000 That's just a fact.

01:36:01.000 Yeah, you're right.

01:36:03.000 And all that prefacing it was coming to say that now that I've watched through the eye that I'm thinking it's Connor's eye watching him and his eye watching Connor, I see Dos Anos as...

01:36:17.000 Being taken to the best level of what you can take guys who still are kind of sturdy.

01:36:23.000 They still got that old version of strength, different, not sort of free and flowing.

01:36:29.000 And you see his telegraphing. 0.99

01:36:31.000 That doesn't mean he can't fuck you up. 0.99

01:36:33.000 Just because I would see that doesn't mean you can do anything about it or stop it. 0.99

01:36:38.000 Or if he ends up on the ground, he's like, who's fucking telegraphing now? 0.95

01:36:42.000 No.

01:36:42.000 None of that may matter, but that is what I definitely see now.

01:36:46.000 When I'm picturing, what is Conor seeing?

01:36:48.000 Like, you see...

01:36:49.000 Boom.

01:36:50.000 Move back.

01:36:51.000 Boom.

01:36:51.000 Like it's much more sort of labored and it's built around an old sturdy style of building a fighter.

01:37:00.000 And Condit and McGregor and all these guys believe that the answer to that is not only mobility where we move our feet, but how we move through space.

01:37:10.000 You know, Condit comes on weird angles and different things.

01:37:12.000 And that's got to be what he's seeing.

01:37:15.000 Whether that matters or not, it suddenly doesn't matter at all if he puts you on your back and caves your face in.

01:37:20.000 Yeah, and he's got...

01:37:22.000 He's got some very good movement himself, though.

01:37:25.000 Dos Anjos may telegraph things a little bit, but it's because he puts so much power into his shots.

01:37:32.000 What's shocking about him, though, is his ability to close the distance.

01:37:36.000 It's very fast.

01:37:37.000 That's one of the things that I've disagreed with what Conor said, is that he's a slower, stuck-in-the-mud version of Aldo.

01:37:44.000 Man, I don't see that at all. 0.99

01:37:46.000 I see a fucking savage. 1.00

01:37:48.000 Yeah, he is a fucking savage. 1.00

01:37:49.000 As I watched it, it's like you're looking for what you could think you could exploit, and that's the thing. 1.00

01:37:55.000 It's like, okay, I think I can see the things coming.

01:37:58.000 Now, that may turn out to not be true, and that's a bad time to figure that out.

01:38:01.000 Yeah, it's a terrible time.

01:38:02.000 It's when you're getting ripped in the face.

01:38:03.000 But at the same time, it's also like the dude is just so aggressively violent.

01:38:09.000 But whether it's McGregor is not at, in my opinion, yet, or we haven't seen it at the Dominic Cruz level, but Let's say that you and I have a really great fighter and somebody says, we'll give you guys a million dollars if you can have this guy beat Dominic Cruz in five years.

01:38:23.000 What do you do?

01:38:25.000 If we start figuring out, trying to teach him the same movement as Dominic Cruz, the most we could hope for is him achieving Dominic Cruz five years earlier.

01:38:36.000 You know, the five years of learning it, Dominic Cruz has improved for five years.

01:38:39.000 We've got to figure out the answer to make it not about that.

01:38:43.000 That's the hard part.

01:38:44.000 And that's what Conor and his people, I think, believe, is it will make it not about what he wants it to be about.

01:38:53.000 Well, don't you think with a guy like Dominic Cruz, one of the reasons why Dominic has created that style is because he's not capable of putting a guy away with one shot.

01:39:00.000 He's not that kind of Conor McGregor, one punch, death touch kind of a guy.

01:39:05.000 He just doesn't have that.

01:39:06.000 So he's got to hit you with volume, and he's also very smart.

01:39:10.000 And very smart guys don't want to get hit.

01:39:12.000 So what do they do? 0.95

01:39:13.000 They incorporate a lot of footwork, and Dominic's footwork is pretty fucking spectacular.

01:39:17.000 I watched him, we were all just hanging around backstage one day, and he and Brian Stan and DC were talking, just joking around.

01:39:25.000 And DC said, show me some of that footwork, Brian, or show me some of that footwork, Dominic.

01:39:32.000 And he steps in with this shuffle and then sidestep, and I'm like, whoa!

01:39:37.000 Like when you see him just playing around with someone standing in front of him, like Brian Stan was just standing there for him, and he's like...

01:39:44.000 Like, the way he's moving.

01:39:46.000 It's wild.

01:39:46.000 You have to calculate that.

01:39:47.000 You have to figure out, like, you think he's coming this way, but he's going that way, and then he's coming this way again.

01:39:53.000 You're like, wow.

01:39:54.000 It's amazing.

01:39:56.000 This isn't, like, improvised.

01:39:58.000 Like, these are, like, very specific, very...

01:40:01.000 The amount of efficiency involved in these movements are excellent.

01:40:07.000 It's wild.

01:40:08.000 And it's that same thing we were saying, you know...

01:40:11.000 I don't do submissions from guard anymore, so all my training partners are not dealing with that. 0.97

01:40:17.000 Some guy's quietly just building the shit out of that.

01:40:19.000 Dominic's been doing that for 10 years.

01:40:21.000 If you try to figure that out now, good luck, 10 years.

01:40:23.000 Well, here's what I want to know.

01:40:24.000 But he did it in front of everybody.

01:40:26.000 They all saw him do it, and they still let him do it, and they didn't try to, you know what I mean?

01:40:29.000 He did it right out in front of everybody's nose.

01:40:32.000 It's hard to figure out.

01:40:33.000 I mean, you watched him do it even while he was doing it with TJ. There's so many movements that he's capable of doing.

01:40:40.000 There's so many different combinations of steps and exchanges, and you think he's stepping this way, and he switches stances, and he goes off to the left, and he knows you're going to step in.

01:40:50.000 Is this a movement drill?

01:40:51.000 Here, look at this.

01:40:53.000 Look at this. 1.00

01:40:54.000 Good fucking luck. 0.99

01:40:55.000 Look at all this. 0.99

01:40:56.000 If you want to catch up to that, he's been building that for 10 years in front of everybody.

01:41:00.000 And everybody sat around going, well, that's just Dominic.

01:41:03.000 Yeah, I mean, he's different.

01:41:05.000 That's incredible.

01:41:06.000 Dominic would tell you he's not different.

01:41:07.000 He would say, if you did this for 10 years, you could do it too.

01:41:10.000 You know what I mean?

01:41:11.000 No wonder why he gets plantar fasciitis too, right?

01:41:13.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:41:14.000 Jesus Christ.

01:41:16.000 That's incredible. 0.99

01:41:17.000 I mean, that's his solution for having, you know, he says he has bitch hands. 1.00

01:41:21.000 He jokes around about it because he has small hands and he's broken them several times. 0.89

01:41:25.000 I mean, he put away Mitsugaki in the first round, but it's very rare that he puts guys away.

01:41:28.000 He just doesn't have the physical frame for it.

01:41:31.000 But because of that, he's developed all this incredible movement.

01:41:35.000 It's one of the things I always tell people when you learn jiu-jitsu.

01:41:37.000 Don't learn jiu-jitsu from a gorilla.

01:41:39.000 Learn it from an Eddie Bravo or, you know, a small guy, you know, a small physical, like, a guy who's not imposing.

01:41:49.000 Those guys are the ones you really want to learn technique from them because they've had to develop that technique.

01:41:55.000 It has to be laser sharp because they don't have the ability to gorilla out of things.

01:41:59.000 You know, when you learn jiu-jitsu from really big people, Man, it's rare that they're technical.

01:42:04.000 It's really rare.

01:42:05.000 Because they can make it work.

01:42:07.000 Yes.

01:42:07.000 Yeah, you want a Barrett Yoshida, right?

01:42:09.000 You want a little tiny guy that has just a laser-sharp technique, an Eddie Bravo, a Hoyler Gracie, you know, a small person who's just got fucking razor, the Mendez brothers. 0.97

01:42:21.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:42:22.000 Perfect example.

01:42:23.000 Small guys with razor sharp technique. 0.86

01:42:26.000 And if you watch them roll against even bigger guys, their technique is so fucking sharp. 0.93

01:42:30.000 They can get through. 0.99

01:42:32.000 Whereas, like, if you find a big guy who's got gorilla jiu-jitsu and he fights a bigger gorilla, he gets fucked up. 0.92

01:42:38.000 That's just what you said earlier when Hoist went into UFC 1 because they knew it would be that much more amazing if the little dude did it. 0.96

01:42:47.000 Sort of.

01:42:48.000 That's not really what happened though.

01:42:49.000 That's the standard description of what happened.

01:42:53.000 What really happened was they couldn't control Hickson.

01:42:57.000 Hickson was the master of the family.

01:42:58.000 Everybody knew he was the king.

01:43:00.000 But if Hickson won, he would be like, I want $10 million and now I'm going to go surf. 0.99

01:43:06.000 He would just do whatever the fuck he wanted. 0.99

01:43:08.000 I mean, Hickson truly marches to the beat of his own drum. 0.99

01:43:12.000 And no one could control him.

01:43:14.000 So his brother was not really interested in putting Hickson in that position.

01:43:18.000 The idea was, put Hoist in.

01:43:20.000 If Hoist lost, then you go into negotiations with Hickson.

01:43:24.000 And you get Hickson in there. 0.97

01:43:26.000 Because Hickson's gonna fuck everybody up. 0.99

01:43:28.000 It would have changed everything, though. 0.99

01:43:29.000 It would have been different.

01:43:31.000 The way he did it would have been different.

01:43:33.000 Like, have you ever looked at some of the brutal beatdowns, the Gracie in action beatdowns that Hickson did? 0.98

01:43:37.000 He's so goddamn strong. 0.95

01:43:39.000 He's not just unbelievably technical with his jiu-jitsu, but also really physically strong. 0.99

01:43:46.000 I think some of the audience, a lot of them maybe, Wouldn't have gone, oh my god, jujitsu's amazing. 0.99

01:43:53.000 They'd have gone, holy shit, this guy's a killer. 0.99

01:43:55.000 And Hoist being there, Hoist's fighting tonight, too. 1.00

01:43:59.000 I know, isn't that crazy?

01:44:00.000 We're sitting here, Hoist is going to fight in like three hours.

01:44:03.000 He's 50, in his 50s.

01:44:05.000 He's at least 50, right?

01:44:06.000 How old is Hoist?

01:44:07.000 I think Ken and him are both 50. Just let him juice up.

01:44:11.000 Let him juice up.

01:44:12.000 I mean, they're probably gonna if they can get around it.

01:44:16.000 They're 50. 50!

01:44:18.000 You know what I mean?

01:44:18.000 Like, they're 50. Think about being 50. I know, man.

01:44:22.000 I still have this little tiny hint in the back of my mind somewhere that I could fight one more time.

01:44:27.000 Like, it's just hidden back there.

01:44:28.000 But you were just talking about your head.

01:44:30.000 I know, I know.

01:44:30.000 That your memory's not so hard.

01:44:34.000 I have a weird sort of perspective on that.

01:44:40.000 One, that's why I think we have to celebrate these fights way more.

01:44:44.000 Because these guys are getting hurt.

01:44:46.000 And they're doing it for their adventure or their reasons, but they're still getting hurt.

01:44:51.000 But I was in Belize with my wife, and it was beautiful, actually.

01:44:56.000 It was beautiful.

01:44:57.000 And there's a huge percentage of men over 40 that are blind.

01:45:02.000 Yeah, they're blind.

01:45:03.000 Why?

01:45:04.000 Because one of their biggest crops is cashews.

01:45:08.000 And something about the process of cashew farming makes you go blind in 5 years or 10 or 20 at some point.

01:45:14.000 Yeah.

01:45:14.000 Certain people who work in cashew farming, it's known that you will go blind.

01:45:19.000 Holy shit, man. 1.00

01:45:20.000 So when you're 20, Cashews are not worth going blind over, man. 1.00

01:45:25.000 And so when you're 20, and you say, I'm going to be a cashew farmer, you're doing it with the knowledge that you're going to be blind one day.

01:45:32.000 Full knowledge, because you've known your grandfather, you knew an uncle, there's just a certain percentage of people.

01:45:38.000 And they do it because at the end, they will provide for their family, it's a good career, you will take care of your kids, and they do it knowing.

01:45:47.000 People go and they work in mines.

01:45:48.000 People do all kinds of things that harm themselves.

01:45:51.000 But you need to know that it's happening.

01:45:53.000 You need to be fully informed and make a solid decision that this is what you want to do.

01:45:58.000 And a lot of 17-year-olds who go and start boxing or whatever don't have all that information.

01:46:02.000 No.

01:46:03.000 No, they don't.

01:46:04.000 But if you have it, and you're like, this is my passion.

01:46:06.000 This is all I want to do.

01:46:07.000 This is what I want to do with my life.

01:46:09.000 I was put on earth to fight.

01:46:10.000 I know there'll be repercussions for this in my future, and I'm choosing to do it.

01:46:14.000 Go do it, man.

01:46:14.000 It's a free society.

01:46:15.000 You can eat as much sugar as you want, and that'll kill you. 1.00

01:46:18.000 You can do it, but you want people to know the dangers.

01:46:21.000 I have no idea about cashew farming.

01:46:23.000 Do you find anything on that, Jamie?

01:46:25.000 Please don't tell me that that's a myth.

01:46:27.000 I didn't see anything about blindness, but blood cashews are coming up, and the way that they farm them and get them deshelled is pretty bad, and it causes people intense pain because there's some sort of...

01:46:38.000 A liquid that comes out of them when you pull the shell.

01:46:41.000 Apparently it's a chemical that's used, and I don't know.

01:46:43.000 I don't even know what a cashew shell looks like.

01:46:45.000 I don't know either.

01:46:46.000 I've never seen a cashew in a shell.

01:46:47.000 It was something that was mentioned more than a couple of times in Belize.

01:46:52.000 Whoa, that's what it looks like?

01:46:53.000 Yeah.

01:46:54.000 How weird.

01:46:54.000 So, I mean, that chemical could be connected to pain.

01:46:57.000 Blindness may be one of the effects, but that was the story that I was told more than a few times down there about that.

01:47:04.000 They don't even look real.

01:47:05.000 Look at that.

01:47:06.000 That looks like an avatar plant.

01:47:08.000 That's true.

01:47:09.000 You know?

01:47:09.000 It doesn't look real.

01:47:10.000 It looks like some sort of a weird, crazy squash.

01:47:13.000 But if you decide you're going to go farm that stuff, and you know what the outcome is, and you do it anyways, you chose to do that for whatever your reasons are.

01:47:21.000 So you're not finding anything on cashews causing blindness?

01:47:25.000 Just give it a shot.

01:47:27.000 Yeah, it just makes me sad that these people obviously don't have a whole lot of options.

01:47:31.000 It makes me not want to buy cashews. 0.98

01:47:33.000 But then again, then they don't have any money, so what the fuck do you do? 0.98

01:47:36.000 Yeah, fighting is also, some people can get away with it. 0.88

01:47:42.000 Bas Rutten, who was here on Wednesday, obviously former UFC heavyweight champion, one of the greats, one of the real pioneers of the game, sharp as a tack.

01:47:51.000 No problems mentally at all.

01:47:53.000 He's speaking a second language, by the way.

01:47:57.000 He speaks Dutch.

01:47:58.000 So in English, he's smooth as silk.

01:48:00.000 He's talking fast.

01:48:01.000 He's got all these great stories.

01:48:03.000 His memory's sharp as a razor.

01:48:05.000 There's no problems with him at all.

01:48:07.000 And then, of course, we all know guys that are punchy. 0.99

01:48:11.000 And I've known a lot of guys from the time when I was a teenager, and now today I can't talk to them anymore because they're fucked up. 1.00

01:48:19.000 Guys from my old boxing gym, They're fucked up, man. 1.00

01:48:21.000 They have real problems. 1.00

01:48:23.000 They're very, very compromised.

01:48:25.000 And I feel very fortunate that I'm not.

01:48:27.000 I'm sure there's something going on.

01:48:30.000 I definitely got hit a lot.

01:48:33.000 So I'm sure there's something that didn't go well up in there.

01:48:37.000 Probably made me more impulsive, more angry, or more aggressive.

01:48:41.000 I don't know.

01:48:41.000 I don't know what it is.

01:48:43.000 Overall, I got out of it pretty unscathed, but it's because I stopped fighting when I was 22. I realized at that age, I was like, I'm already getting headaches.

01:48:54.000 There was no future in it back then.

01:48:56.000 There was no money in it back then.

01:48:57.000 There was no MMA. It was just kickboxing.

01:49:00.000 I was way better at Taekwondo than it was at kickboxing.

01:49:05.000 My kicks were my biggest attribute, and I was learning how to box more. 0.99

01:49:10.000 In that learning, I was getting the fuck beat out of me.

01:49:13.000 Definitely the most abuse I took was boxing, but I love boxing. 0.93

01:49:16.000 It's fun.

01:49:16.000 I love it.

01:49:18.000 I took a lot of it.

01:49:19.000 I remember I got a couple of concussions.

01:49:22.000 One for sure, that I remember, it's almost like life was different the moment after that concussion.

01:49:28.000 The way that I saw the world was different after I took that one punch.

01:49:31.000 It was just training.

01:49:32.000 How so?

01:49:33.000 I just, I don't know, my perception or something.

01:49:37.000 Like in what way?

01:49:39.000 I had a headache, and I threw up that night.

01:49:42.000 So I was in Lethbridge, and you know Jordan Meehan.

01:49:45.000 His dad, Lee, is a good friend.

01:49:47.000 And Lee and Jordan were out of town, and I went to train, and this guy, Dan Torture Chambers, who was a big, powerful, good 185-er.

01:49:55.000 You were sparring with a 185-er? 0.96

01:49:57.000 I don't know what the fuck I was thinking. 0.94

01:49:58.000 So he fights at 185. Yeah, so he was in the 200s, 210. And I thought we were just going to light spar, but that's not what they do. 0.98

01:50:06.000 And I took a crazy, straight...

01:50:10.000 Oh yeah, he was a southpaw and I took a crazy straight left or two from him and then immediately something was different.

01:50:17.000 And then I started slipping it and hitting with my left hook and I was happy.

01:50:21.000 There's moments in fighting where, you know, you find out you're just not, I'm not like Chris Weidman, you know, that's just the truth. 0.98

01:50:28.000 But then there's moments in a fight or in sparring where you're like very proud, like when threatened with danger, my answer was to fucking hit it back as hard as I could. 0.79

01:50:37.000 So I got through the round or rounds and then I just had a headache. 0.97

01:50:40.000 I couldn't think.

01:50:41.000 I went and I ring announced that night.

01:50:43.000 I started throwing up in the back and just my thought process was different.

01:50:48.000 I was single at the time and this really cute girl was asking me to go hang out with her and I just couldn't focus.

01:50:56.000 Better a month or two later, but I feel like that day was different.

01:51:00.000 After that, I really feel like I saw things differently or I thought differently.

01:51:06.000 It's a very distinct moment.

01:51:09.000 Like that time I almost didn't get off the couch.

01:51:12.000 That moment, I was different after it.

01:51:14.000 Wow.

01:51:15.000 You didn't even get knocked out.

01:51:17.000 No.

01:51:17.000 That's what's really crazy.

01:51:19.000 You got your bell rack.

01:51:20.000 But you kept sparring.

01:51:22.000 So you're still mobile.

01:51:23.000 Your legs were working.

01:51:25.000 But then after that sparring, the rest of the...

01:51:29.000 I didn't really train anymore, and then he gave me a ride back, and the rest of the day, even the ring announcer, I think I was probably behaving very strangely during it.

01:51:37.000 And I don't remember that day super well, other than telling that pretty girl that I couldn't hang out with her because my head hurt so much.

01:51:44.000 I remember the rest of the round, though, and I got a concussion in the first couple shots of my first fight, too, and I fought until about the middle of the second round, and I knew I was different.

01:51:54.000 Like, you just know.

01:51:55.000 But it's cool in a weird way that you go and keep fighting.

01:52:00.000 Because now I understand it when I commentate or when I'm analyzing it.

01:52:03.000 I've had that experience, and that's why I fought, was to have that understanding.

01:52:07.000 But I know what it is to fight with a concussion or spar with a concussion, and you see that guys do it.

01:52:13.000 They're hurt in round one, and they'll fight all the way through, sometimes win.

01:52:16.000 I wonder what, if anything, they're gonna figure out in the future to mitigate some of the problems with head impacts.

01:52:23.000 You know, whether it's gonna be something with stem cells or some sort of a new method of rehabilitating and healing people.

01:52:30.000 It's so depressing to me to watch this incredible Problem-solving at its highest level event like MMA or like boxing or kickboxing or anything along those lines.

01:52:42.000 Football.

01:52:43.000 But knowing that any time like Gokhan Saki lands a head kick on somebody, that guy might not ever be the same again. 0.95

01:52:50.000 And that is a big fucking factor that I really get upset when people downplay that. 0.96

01:52:56.000 Like when you see someone get head kicked and knocked dead, they might not ever be the same again. 0.98

01:53:02.000 That is a fact.

01:53:03.000 Yeah.

01:53:04.000 I know a guy back when I was a young kid who got kicked in the head, and the doctor told him, I don't want you to ever do combat sports again.

01:53:13.000 I don't want you to ever do contact sports again.

01:53:15.000 I don't want you playing football.

01:53:17.000 I don't want you to do it.

01:53:18.000 You're like, stop.

01:53:19.000 You have to stop. 1.00

01:53:20.000 You got fucking killed, and you survived. 1.00

01:53:24.000 You got real lucky. 1.00

01:53:25.000 And you see guys like that, they get hit like that, and then they're fighting five months later.

01:53:30.000 And then they're fighting six months later.

01:53:31.000 And they're not the same.

01:53:32.000 You can tell they're not the same.

01:53:33.000 They can't take a shot anymore.

01:53:34.000 Yeah.

01:53:35.000 It is spooky.

01:53:36.000 You don't know what the answer is because there isn't really one now other than you can't spar with big guys like that and do it because it's fun and it's fun to fight.

01:53:47.000 You should never...

01:53:48.000 And most guys aren't doing that, or many guys are not doing that as much.

01:53:51.000 But it's, you know, this is, to me, when you get the chance to have people who have trained their whole lives to help us have an experiment in combat right now in front of all of us, that is such a beautiful and wonderful thing in humanity.

01:54:07.000 Fighting is a part of what we do.

01:54:09.000 Fighting is a part of us getting here.

01:54:10.000 It may be a part of our future depending on where we are and what's happening and different aspects of it.

01:54:15.000 Fighting is a part of us.

01:54:17.000 And to see it done at that level in this sort of almost global experiment kind of way It's beautiful.

01:54:23.000 It's this wonderful, incredibly artistic thing.

01:54:27.000 But it has the downside.

01:54:29.000 And that's another reason.

01:54:30.000 It just sickens me when I see the way people respond to a Ronda or respond, Conor's going to lose one day.

01:54:35.000 And how are they going to respond to that guy?

01:54:37.000 You know, Johnny Hendrix lost.

01:54:40.000 How are people responding to this?

01:54:41.000 Because these guys are just doing incredible, incredible things for the furthering of what humanity is capable of.

01:54:48.000 People love to attack people when they lose, like the way Hendrix lost.

01:54:52.000 I saw people attacking him online. 0.99

01:54:54.000 I'm like, God damn it. 0.99

01:54:55.000 That guy just fought a wizard. 0.99

01:54:57.000 He fought like a real striking wizard, and he learned something. 0.97

01:55:01.000 People are like, yeah, you should have fucking made weight against Woodley. 1.00

01:55:04.000 Yeah, you fucking cheater. 1.00

01:55:05.000 He was probably on PEDs before. 1.00

01:55:07.000 All this hate and nonsense. 1.00

01:55:10.000 Terrible, terrible fucking shit. 1.00

01:55:11.000 I read about him online. 1.00

01:55:13.000 Everyone deals with it.

01:55:14.000 I've actually taken...

01:55:15.000 The only time I ever take stabs, and even talking about it, I don't feel great about it, but it's when guys miss weight.

01:55:22.000 And other fighters...

01:55:24.000 Fighters are doing it.

01:55:24.000 Coaches do it.

01:55:26.000 It's just...

01:55:26.000 Missing weight, there was always...

01:55:31.000 Right.

01:55:35.000 Right.

01:55:46.000 As we're getting away from the bodybuilder, wrestler, weight, it's a part of that prototype of fighter, and that prototype of fighter is going to keep getting beaten now that we have new answers to him.

01:55:58.000 And I think as that fighter changes, that weight cutting is a part of that prototype.

01:56:03.000 Well, also USADA and the IV ban, that's a big issue.

01:56:06.000 As soon as they started banning the IVs, you saw people's bodyweights lowering because they realized they couldn't make that big, crazy 25-pound cut in a couple days and rehabilitate enough or rehydrate enough, rather, to be able to fight 24 hours later.

01:56:19.000 You just can't do it.

01:56:21.000 You have to drop your bodyweight down.

01:56:22.000 You have to.

01:56:23.000 Guys were using diuretics before you saw that, too.

01:56:26.000 There were diuretics.

01:56:28.000 We all hear who apparently is doing it.

01:56:30.000 But I talk about fighting all day on TV. I can't address that.

01:56:34.000 Just because some three coaches and two fighters are like, everybody knows that guy's doing it.

01:56:38.000 Never failed a test.

01:56:39.000 There's no evidence.

01:56:41.000 It's just you can't really talk about it.

01:56:43.000 You can make observations around it.

01:56:46.000 But the truth is, in that era, man...

01:56:49.000 If you were fighting Josh Barnett in Japan, you don't know what somebody else might be on.

01:56:56.000 You don't know what Vanderlei might be on.

01:56:58.000 You've got to go over there.

01:56:58.000 You do what you thought you had to do.

01:57:01.000 If you were fighting in pride after a few years, first call you've got to make us to a doctor because you may not want to do it.

01:57:08.000 It may be harmful for your future in some ways, depending.

01:57:11.000 But I don't know.

01:57:12.000 I'm going to pride.

01:57:13.000 Look at these guys.

01:57:14.000 They're all on something.

01:57:16.000 I need to fight.

01:57:17.000 I've got to make...

01:57:18.000 You know, you don't go ask the bodybuilder at the gym.

01:57:21.000 You go ask a doctor.

01:57:22.000 Well, it's interesting, too, because when you watch guys that were competing in pride and were looking amazing, and then you see them when they got over to the UFC, and they weren't nearly as good, you have to think one of two things happened. 0.99

01:57:33.000 Either they took so much punishment in pride that they never really fully recovered, which is absolutely possible, or they were on some shit. 0.99

01:57:40.000 Or both. 1.00

01:57:41.000 Or both.

01:57:42.000 Yeah.

01:57:42.000 Most likely.

01:57:43.000 Most likely.

01:57:44.000 The thing people don't see somehow, they are, oh, that guy did steroids and now he's this.

01:57:49.000 That may be true.

01:57:50.000 But the natural reaction is this.

01:57:52.000 Whether that's your hormonal reaction.

01:57:55.000 You're doing hand motions for people that are just listening.

01:57:57.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:57:58.000 There's an up and a down.

01:57:59.000 Doing a dance, yeah.

01:58:00.000 And, you know, your hormone levels will crash.

01:58:03.000 Yes.

01:58:04.000 And when they crash, like, you know, TRT Vitor and dad bod Vitor is not like, you know, in theory, if you had to take TRT because you had no or very little testosterone, well, now that you're off it, you're going to be dad bod Vitor.

01:58:19.000 When I saw that, and it was, you know what, I was really happy for Vitor to...

01:58:24.000 Not look like the Incredible Hulk and still win.

01:58:28.000 That said a lot about...

01:58:29.000 You mean when he fought Henderson?

01:58:30.000 Yeah.

01:58:30.000 Yeah, but who knows?

01:58:32.000 Who knows?

01:58:33.000 That's the problem.

01:58:34.000 Who knows what kind of shenanigans are going on?

01:58:37.000 For sure.

01:58:37.000 Especially when you're fighting in Brazil.

01:58:39.000 I hate to say it, but it is true. 0.93

01:58:42.000 It's a different thing.

01:58:43.000 It's a different thing.

01:58:44.000 I don't know what...

01:58:47.000 The future holds as far as testing for performance-enhancing drugs, but I've got to imagine that they're closing in to the point where there's almost no wiggle room.

01:58:56.000 And these guys are getting popped that never got popped before, like when Gleason got popped.

01:59:00.000 And everybody's like, wow, who fucking saw that coming? 0.91

01:59:03.000 Guy looks like the Incredible Hulk. 0.98

01:59:04.000 He's one of the biggest weight cutters in the history of the sport.

01:59:07.000 I mean, he is...

01:59:08.000 The biggest 155 pound fighter I've ever seen in my life.

01:59:11.000 Bigger than anybody.

01:59:12.000 Because he would weigh 155, make weight, shredded, and then the next day you'd be like, Jesus Christ, he's 200 pounds. 0.98

01:59:19.000 He's so goddamn big. 0.96

01:59:21.000 He was so big. 0.99

01:59:23.000 Just swole, shredded, not an ounce of fat, just gorilla strong, and freakish endurance.

01:59:30.000 Yeah.

01:59:30.000 He popped hot for EPO. He popped hot for something else as well, right?

01:59:35.000 Yeah, I forget.

01:59:35.000 It might have been a diuretic too, but...

01:59:37.000 But then Yul Romero, another one.

01:59:39.000 You look at that guy and you go, well, how's that even human?

01:59:42.000 I love the USADA guy when he introduced the concept of the smell test.

01:59:46.000 All that is basically like, come on!

01:59:49.000 That's what that is.

01:59:50.000 Well, Nowitzki's on top of it, man.

01:59:52.000 He's giving these guys no space.

01:59:54.000 That's the only way.

01:59:55.000 I mean, either, hey...

01:59:58.000 Everybody can do whatever, which is probably going to be unsafe in a lot of ways.

02:00:01.000 Yes.

02:00:02.000 Or, well, we're going to kind of test, but you guys work around it.

02:00:05.000 Your workarounds will be an acceptable amount of drug use that we're all going to say we're okay with and just do it.

02:00:10.000 Well, it's interesting because the UFC didn't have to do this.

02:00:13.000 Yeah, I know.

02:00:13.000 This is all their own idea.

02:00:15.000 This is not instituted by the Nevada State Athletic Commission. 0.94

02:00:18.000 This is entirely the UFC's idea to bring in Nowitzki and say, look, let's fucking chase this down to the end of the earth. 0.86

02:00:27.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:00:27.000 Let's find exactly what the fuck these people are doing and let's clean up the sport. 0.98

02:00:30.000 And you're seeing much more realistic bodies, much more realistic performances. 0.95

02:00:34.000 You're seeing guys like Eric Silva change radically.

02:00:38.000 He used to look like a yoked up Bruce Lee.

02:00:42.000 And then he became an athlete.

02:00:45.000 He looked like a regular athlete.

02:00:46.000 I was in Saskatoon when he fought.

02:00:48.000 And when he went out to do the open workout, we were like, oh, this guy looks dope.

02:00:52.000 Totally different.

02:00:53.000 Totally different.

02:00:54.000 You know, it's funny, being a fan or a fanatic fan, people always, there's a lot of that negativity we're talking about.

02:01:03.000 People always want to take a jab at the UFC or Dana or whatever.

02:01:07.000 Nobody ever wants to point out the good moves, like the really positive moves that they make.

02:01:12.000 And this is one of those.

02:01:13.000 It's a huge one.

02:01:13.000 It's a big one.

02:01:14.000 It's a big one.

02:01:17.000 You can't half-ass it.

02:01:19.000 Because if you half-ass it and leave it to the...

02:01:21.000 And Dana used to say, it's not our job, it's the commission's job.

02:01:25.000 The reason they instituted this is like, they're just not doing a good enough job.

02:01:29.000 They're not.

02:01:29.000 They're not, so we'll have to do this.

02:01:30.000 The piss testing is inexpensive, and that's why they would do it.

02:01:33.000 The type of blood test that the USADA guys are doing is so much more comprehensive.

02:01:39.000 Which was also why it was so maddening when Nick Diaz got in trouble. 1.00

02:01:42.000 Because Nick Diaz, and this is also to Nowitzki's credit, Nowitzki was one of the ones that's saying, this is fucking bullshit. 1.00

02:01:48.000 This suspension's bullshit. 1.00

02:01:49.000 What they're doing is bullshit. 1.00

02:01:50.000 Because the USADA testing showed him under the limit. 0.99

02:01:54.000 So he is fine.

02:01:55.000 And then they had some other wacky piss test that's not nearly as accurate.

02:01:59.000 And that's where he tested high.

02:02:02.000 And so they fined him $100,000.

02:02:04.000 Now it went from $165,000 down to $100,000 or something like that.

02:02:10.000 And then they're going to give him a 16-month suspension instead of...

02:02:13.000 They have three years.

02:02:14.000 Five years.

02:02:14.000 And they were going to give him five years.

02:02:15.000 That's insane.

02:02:16.000 Well, they just gave Vanderlei three years.

02:02:18.000 You saw that?

02:02:18.000 Yeah.

02:02:19.000 But here the problem with the Vanderlei thing is they did it just before he's going to fight Fedor in Pride.

02:02:25.000 Now if he goes...

02:02:25.000 Or in Ryzen, rather.

02:02:26.000 I'm saying Pride.

02:02:28.000 Pride never die.

02:02:29.000 So he's gonna fight Fedor and Ryzen, so he will have violated his ban, so that it will essentially keep him out of fighting in the United States forever.

02:02:38.000 I mean, that's a sneaky thing they did right there.

02:02:40.000 A lot of people aren't pointing that out.

02:02:42.000 Like, they kept that guy on the shelf.

02:02:43.000 They told him he's banned for life. 1.00

02:02:45.000 They fucked with him. 1.00

02:02:46.000 They wouldn't give him a hearing. 1.00

02:02:47.000 They kept postponing the hearing.

02:02:49.000 Then, coincidentally, right after the guy gets a big fight, he's gonna fight in August in Ryzen, and then immediately they hit him with his three-year.

02:02:58.000 And I think he's only 17 months in for the original suspension from the time where they caught him to today.

02:03:05.000 I think it's only 17 months.

02:03:07.000 I think you're right.

02:03:07.000 If that's the case, that's a year and five months.

02:03:10.000 This guy's still got another year and a half to go.

02:03:12.000 So he can't fight Fedor.

02:03:14.000 He can't get that payday.

02:03:15.000 Or he can go and say, I'm going to finish my career in Japan.

02:03:18.000 He's going to.

02:03:18.000 Yeah, I think he's gonna do that.

02:03:20.000 Which is sad for our fans over here.

02:03:21.000 What was the most sad thing was all those crazy videos he was doing.

02:03:24.000 I know.

02:03:24.000 Where he was saying the UFC is disrespecting the athlete and they're paying...

02:03:27.000 And then the UFC is like, alright, well, we're gonna tell everybody how much money you made.

02:03:31.000 And then you found out Vanderlei made $9 million.

02:03:33.000 And you're like...

02:03:34.000 Yeah.

02:03:35.000 Wait, wait.

02:03:36.000 That's not poverty.

02:03:38.000 Yeah.

02:03:38.000 Dude, you made nine million bucks?

02:03:40.000 Yeah.

02:03:40.000 But he only won a couple of fights.

02:03:42.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:03:43.000 I mean, obviously, he's a fucking legend. 0.99

02:03:46.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:03:46.000 And one of the all-time greats. 0.99

02:03:48.000 And one of my...

02:03:49.000 If I had to pick, like, three favorite fighters, Vandele's in that top three. 0.51

02:03:53.000 Yeah, pretty brilliant.

02:03:53.000 Because he was so much fun to watch.

02:03:55.000 He was just...

02:03:55.000 When you saw Vandele rolling his wrists before those fights in Pride...

02:03:59.000 Shit, imagine looking at that over there. 1.00

02:04:00.000 Come on. 1.00

02:04:01.000 He was chaos, man, which is what makes the Crow Cop knockout of him even more impressive, is that Crow Cop showed the difference, man. 1.00

02:04:09.000 The difference between a guy who's a wild brawler and an elite striker.

02:04:14.000 For sure.

02:04:15.000 Yeah, you feel bad for Vandal.

02:04:18.000 That reaction with those videos, and he loved being a hero.

02:04:24.000 He loved it.

02:04:25.000 Like when I talked to him, he loved the people and he loved that people celebrated it.

02:04:28.000 A big reason that he loved fighting was the audience.

02:04:32.000 And he told me that.

02:04:33.000 He loved it.

02:04:34.000 And then somewhere between injecting some jailness in there and a few other things, suddenly the audience was negative against Vanderlei for some length of time.

02:04:43.000 It was the ultimate fighter.

02:04:44.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:04:45.000 He acted like an asshole. 1.00

02:04:46.000 He acted like a bully and an asshole and it didn't work. 1.00

02:04:50.000 And Chael made him look like a fool. 1.00

02:04:52.000 He made him look like a fool verbally and then physically when Chael took him down really pretty easily. 1.00

02:04:57.000 Chael made him look like an asshole. 1.00

02:04:59.000 That's what Conor's doing now. 1.00

02:05:00.000 Conor's been compared to him.

02:05:01.000 I don't think there's...

02:05:02.000 Chael?

02:05:03.000 Yeah, like in the thinking. 0.99

02:05:04.000 I don't think it's a similarity, but you can't fuck with guys who are so good at that. 1.00

02:05:08.000 You will lose. 0.99

02:05:09.000 It's either going to affect your performance, you're going to look bad.

02:05:12.000 I thought my guy Uriah figured out exactly how to tangle with Conor McGregor.

02:05:17.000 Like, he became kind of a friend and he was a part of the game.

02:05:20.000 Joking around with him.

02:05:21.000 That's what Uriah does.

02:05:22.000 He's jovial.

02:05:23.000 Yeah, he's a very likable cat.

02:05:26.000 You know, it's looking like it's going to be Uriah and Dominick Cruz.

02:05:28.000 That's crazy.

02:05:29.000 What do you think about that?

02:05:32.000 One of the reasons I wanted to fight and wanted to learn more about fighting, and one of the things that pointed me to start pursuing this was Uriah Faber, Mark Hominick, these little guys that fought.

02:05:43.000 I admired them, wanted to be like them.

02:05:45.000 I was older, so I'm a Uriah guy. 0.96

02:05:50.000 But when he went to fight Frankie, my breakdown kind of was, this guy's really fucking good at these things. 0.82

02:05:58.000 And he gets better at these certain things. 0.88

02:06:01.000 But we got to see some kind of innovation out of him.

02:06:03.000 We have to see something else.

02:06:05.000 Uriah wins with drive and determination.

02:06:08.000 He'll win every position.

02:06:09.000 He wins with will and he wins by overwhelming you.

02:06:13.000 He can mentally break you.

02:06:14.000 He can't be stopped.

02:06:15.000 All of that is great.

02:06:17.000 But we need something more technically.

02:06:19.000 We need some new tricks. 0.99

02:06:20.000 We need some shit that the other guy doesn't know. 0.99

02:06:22.000 He didn't have that against Frankie. 0.99

02:06:24.000 I'll say exactly the same thing for Dominic Cruz.

02:06:27.000 He must have some new things, some other stuff.

02:06:29.000 Just being the best Uriah isn't going to win him this fight, I don't think.

02:06:33.000 He's got to have some other different answers.

02:06:35.000 Yeah, I wonder what he's doing as far as working on his footwork and working to try to deal with...

02:06:41.000 I mean, he has fought him twice.

02:06:42.000 He's the only guy to beat Dominic.

02:06:43.000 Yeah.

02:06:44.000 He caught Dominic with a guillotine in their first fight, and I wonder, like, what's...

02:06:48.000 I mean, having the knowledge of having faced Dominic not just once, but twice, and especially the second time, he knocked him down a couple of times.

02:06:56.000 Yeah.

02:06:56.000 Yeah, very close fight.

02:06:57.000 Just like TJ was a very close fight.

02:06:59.000 Yeah, very close fight.

02:07:00.000 With Dominic, so we were talking about this earlier.

02:07:04.000 So somebody says, go figure out, here's your guy, go figure out how to beat Dominic Cruz.

02:07:08.000 You have three years. 0.99

02:07:09.000 What the fuck do we do? 1.00

02:07:11.000 Leg kicks. 0.99

02:07:11.000 Yeah, leg kicks is going to be a big one. 0.99

02:07:13.000 I think leg kicks, giant factor. 0.95

02:07:14.000 Slow those legs down. 1.00

02:07:15.000 I'm almost at all costs.

02:07:16.000 I think, first of all, you've got two things to consider.

02:07:19.000 One, Dominic is most likely not going to knock you out with one punch.

02:07:22.000 Yeah.

02:07:22.000 So he doesn't have the kind of knockout power that a Conor does where you really have to be terribly fearful about closing that distance.

02:07:28.000 So you know his number one asset is his movement.

02:07:33.000 Chop those legs, man. 1.00

02:07:34.000 Chop those legs. 1.00

02:07:35.000 If I was him, I would go and train with the best Muay Thai leg kicker I could find.

02:07:41.000 I would seek them out.

02:07:42.000 I would say, this is...

02:07:44.000 Priority number one, and maybe even, you know, concentrate on switching stances quite a bit because Dominic will switch stances quite a bit.

02:07:50.000 And if Uriah could switch stances and throw the power back leg kick from the southpaw position and from orthodox, you know, that would open up those kicks and work on those combinations when Dominic is switching.

02:08:02.000 Work on also going across the top of the thigh if he's not in the right position to throw the outside leg kick.

02:08:07.000 If you were ordinarily going to inside, throw it like an outside, but go across, take that right step and go across the top of the thighs.

02:08:13.000 Yeah.

02:08:13.000 Slick stuff.

02:08:14.000 Yeah, slick stuff.

02:08:33.000 We have to keep them in the headlights, right?

02:08:35.000 So we're a car and our headlights kind of go out on an angle.

02:08:38.000 If we keep them in that lit area of the headlights, that's great.

02:08:42.000 But he doesn't want to be there.

02:08:43.000 He wants to be outside of there.

02:08:44.000 So what do we do?

02:08:45.000 Small steps.

02:08:47.000 He's making grand movements, but if we keep our headlights lined up and we're working at angles, We make small steps and small adjustments to keep him in the headlights.

02:08:57.000 Then when he goes to flee outside of there, quite simply, the right kick is the barrier that way, and the left kick is the barrier that way, and we kind of shoehorn him into our headlights as best as we can. 0.95

02:09:08.000 Faber's never really used leg kicks that way, but sure as fuck sounds like a great idea. 0.58

02:09:13.000 If we can just keep them in those headlights, and as he goes to flee, that extra weapon of the leg starts to... 0.96

02:09:19.000 If our headlights are a certain width, the leg becomes the barrier to keep him in there.

02:09:23.000 That's got to be a starting point.

02:09:24.000 How crazy would it be if Faber reunited with Dwayne Ludwig? 0.99

02:09:28.000 If they buried all the bullshit, got together... 1.00

02:09:31.000 It's so crazy. 0.99

02:09:31.000 It wouldn't happen, because now that he's with TJ, and they've said so much bad shit about each other, and I don't think it would, but it is too bad. 0.99

02:09:39.000 But he needs someone like that. 0.66

02:09:41.000 He needs someone who's going to really tighten up those footwork movements and those leg kick movements. 0.96

02:09:47.000 But if we saw a totally different Uriah, imagine that.

02:09:50.000 He comes out, hands up high, and just starts attacking those legs.

02:09:53.000 I mean, that would be wild, man.

02:09:55.000 It would be. 1.00

02:09:56.000 Oh, shit. 1.00

02:09:57.000 Again, with the memory. 1.00

02:09:58.000 Who's that?

02:10:00.000 Jorgensen.

02:10:00.000 When Uriah fought Jorgensen, that was my favorite performance ever.

02:10:04.000 And that's the Dwayne Ludwig was cornering him.

02:10:08.000 And he did something we see TJ do a lot.

02:10:11.000 I call it like a shell game or like a ball and cups.

02:10:14.000 Like, you know, we've got three cups.

02:10:16.000 Which one has the ball?

02:10:17.000 When TJ changes his level, obviously that can be a takedown.

02:10:22.000 But it can also, from there, he comes up with the right uppercut.

02:10:25.000 From the same spot, he comes up with the left high kick.

02:10:27.000 He has takedowns.

02:10:28.000 He has so many things.

02:10:29.000 And it all centers on that position.

02:10:32.000 Which just shows you how smart Dwayne is.

02:10:34.000 We have these wrestlers.

02:10:35.000 In wrestling, they have this level change spot.

02:10:38.000 That's going to be the home to many of our attacks.

02:10:40.000 Yeah.

02:10:58.000 Mm-hmm.

02:11:01.000 Or, I've seen all these tricks.

02:11:03.000 A magician can't do that to another magician.

02:11:05.000 So Cruz just wouldn't play a ball and cup game.

02:11:07.000 He's like, I'll dance around out here.

02:11:08.000 You chase me around, put your ball and cups on like a little trolley and try to convince me to play it.

02:11:13.000 I'll just kick them off, you know?

02:11:14.000 And so he's just different. 0.99

02:11:17.000 And Cruz is so fucking smart. 0.98

02:11:19.000 He's so brilliant, you know? 0.98

02:11:21.000 And that goes right back to that sort of growth mindset. 0.98

02:11:25.000 When the guy had fucked up legs, he's like, well, I still got to get better. 0.98

02:11:29.000 I'll learn more about fighting. 0.99

02:11:31.000 I'll learn to explain it better.

02:11:32.000 I'll learn to analyze it better.

02:11:34.000 I'll make myself understand it more.

02:11:36.000 He used, instead of that being, well, two years down the tubes, it was like, two years I'm going to gain other skills and other applicable skills, and it made him way better.

02:11:46.000 He's way better because he had that surgery, you know, than if he just was in the gym and he never was forced to take that time.

02:11:51.000 Yeah, I bet you're probably right.

02:11:53.000 And he's one of my favorite analysts, the way he breaks down fights, especially when it comes to making mistakes and striking, leaving yourself open to get hit.

02:12:02.000 He's so good at not getting hit.

02:12:04.000 It's one of the best things.

02:12:05.000 He is so good at explaining how to not get hit or why someone made a mistake in getting hit.

02:12:12.000 Yeah.

02:12:13.000 He's so brilliant.

02:12:14.000 It's funny, too.

02:12:16.000 I've met him once.

02:12:18.000 It was TJ and him.

02:12:20.000 I was asking him about the fight.

02:12:21.000 And I could see him going, okay, this guy kind of knows about fighting. 0.99

02:12:24.000 Because he doesn't give a fuck if you like him. 0.99

02:12:27.000 You know what I mean? 0.99

02:12:27.000 Dominic Cruz. 0.99

02:12:28.000 I like that about him.

02:12:29.000 I like that about even the way he does analysis or commentary. 0.99

02:12:33.000 He doesn't really give a fuck. 1.00

02:12:34.000 You ask me to analyze some shit, I'm going to analyze some shit. 1.00

02:12:37.000 He's doing it like mathematics. 1.00

02:12:38.000 Yeah.

02:12:39.000 One plus one is one, whether you like me or not.

02:12:41.000 Or one plus one is two.

02:12:42.000 See, I can't even count with that.

02:12:43.000 One plus one is one.

02:12:44.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:12:46.000 He's putting it together in a really clear, obvious manner, and you don't have to enjoy his personality in order to appreciate the brilliance of what he's saying.

02:12:56.000 But I like his personality, and I think he's a super smart, articulate guy.

02:13:00.000 We did a little bit of commentary together.

02:13:02.000 I saw it.

02:13:03.000 And I really enjoyed it.

02:13:04.000 I really enjoyed, like, being able to bounce ideas off of him and ask questions.

02:13:08.000 And I would like to do that with a bunch of different kind of fighters, too, because guys who aren't like him, maybe like a Damian Maia.

02:13:14.000 Like, one of my favorite, when Damian Maia fought, Neil Magny.

02:13:20.000 I couldn't wait to interview him because I wanted to know what adjustments he was making when he couldn't tap him from his back and then he eventually did get it.

02:13:27.000 And he was explaining to me how he saw that he was defending on one side so he started turning him towards the other side and setting him up to defend on that side so he could catch him on the other side.

02:13:36.000 Just so smart.

02:13:37.000 Oh man, it's so important.

02:13:38.000 It's everything.

02:13:39.000 It's one of the most important things about MMA is analyzation of technique.

02:13:46.000 And having that fighter explain to you, it illuminates things in such a beautiful way.

02:13:52.000 Like when I say, well, what did you see?

02:13:54.000 Well, what I saw, he kept blocking on this side, or he kept moving towards that.

02:13:59.000 So I was going to try to pretend that I was going to do the same thing I was doing before, but set him up for a different thing.

02:14:06.000 And that level of like, his skill level is so incredibly mind-bogglingly high.

02:14:12.000 It's so easy for him to think in there.

02:14:14.000 Like a lot of guys, guy in fight number three, he's like 8-0 and it's UFC fight two.

02:14:19.000 It's like, I gotta get the choke, gotta get the choke.

02:14:21.000 Oh my God, he's stopping the choke.

02:14:22.000 Okay, I'll try to get it on.

02:14:23.000 Like it's just the thought process isn't as clear and concise as Damian Maia who's like, all right, jujitsu.

02:14:29.000 I do this every day for my whole life and you don't.

02:14:32.000 You know what's interesting about Maya as opposed to anybody else, too? 0.79

02:14:35.000 He's really adamant about not wanting to hurt people.

02:14:38.000 He's like, you know, once I got him to the ground, I threw a few punches just to open him up, but I really wanted to get the choke.

02:14:44.000 I don't want to hurt him.

02:14:45.000 I'm like, wow.

02:14:46.000 I don't want to hurt him.

02:14:47.000 That is his real mentality.

02:14:50.000 He's not bullshitting.

02:14:51.000 He's not trying to get you to like him more by pretending to be more kind and peaceful.

02:14:55.000 No, he really is not trying to hurt you.

02:14:58.000 He's just trying to win.

02:15:02.000 Fighting isn't violence.

02:15:04.000 It doesn't have to be violence.

02:15:07.000 It happens to be violent.

02:15:09.000 But it is competition.

02:15:11.000 It's violent. 0.99

02:15:12.000 When Rumble Johnson fights, it's fucking violent. 0.99

02:15:15.000 Yeah, that's true. 0.99

02:15:18.000 The thing about Rumble Johnson that doesn't get enough...

02:15:23.000 People can't necessarily appreciate how good he is.

02:15:26.000 Oh, he's got power.

02:15:27.000 Yes, he has power.

02:15:29.000 He has crazy power.

02:15:30.000 But he also, when you watch his hips and you watch his feet, he is in position to deliver power anywhere, all the time.

02:15:38.000 And that...

02:15:39.000 Like, when you, we're trying to figure out, you know, how CM Punk is going to fight.

02:15:43.000 And I'll talk to people who've never trained or never studied training or whatever.

02:15:47.000 They're like, well, he could be pretty good.

02:15:48.000 It's like, I can tell you exactly how good you can be at this stage.

02:15:52.000 Because if you look at the very best people you've ever watched, trained with the best coaches at 18 months, this is maybe what they're capable of.

02:15:58.000 And he's 36 or whatever.

02:16:00.000 And he's not a super athlete.

02:16:01.000 So it'll be a little less than that. 1.00

02:16:03.000 He's fucked. 1.00

02:16:03.000 Yeah, he's fucked. 1.00

02:16:04.000 He's fucked. 1.00

02:16:05.000 He made a big... 1.00

02:16:05.000 I feel for him because I looked at that. 1.00

02:16:08.000 When he started doing that, I was like, I know exactly how he feels.

02:16:11.000 I wanted to fight.

02:16:12.000 I wanted to figure it out.

02:16:13.000 I wanted to get in there.

02:16:14.000 But there's that thing, unconscious incompetence, right?

02:16:20.000 Unconscious incompetence. 1.00

02:16:21.000 You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. 1.00

02:16:23.000 And you don't even know that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. 1.00

02:16:26.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:16:26.000 And if you learn enough, eventually you get conscious incompetence where you're like, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, but at least I know that so I can start learning some shit. 1.00

02:16:35.000 Then you'll get conscious competence where you're like, yeah, I'm pretty good. 0.98

02:16:39.000 I got to think about it.

02:16:40.000 I consciously am working at it.

02:16:41.000 And then the greats are unconscious competence.

02:16:44.000 Zen.

02:16:45.000 Yeah, Damian Maia doesn't have to think about it.

02:16:48.000 He was unconsciously incompetent when he said he wanted to fight in the UFC. And I feel for him.

02:16:55.000 The guy didn't know what he was doing.

02:16:57.000 It sounded like a cool thing.

02:16:58.000 He's a driven guy who believes you can achieve what you put your mind to and you work really hard.

02:17:03.000 He just was unconsciously incompetent.

02:17:05.000 He didn't have enough knowledge to know how much could be acquired, what he might be capable of if he worked harder than anyone had ever worked in his life for 18 months.

02:17:13.000 He didn't understand how low that would be. 0.99

02:17:15.000 Yeah, you still suck. 1.00

02:17:17.000 Yeah, you suck. 1.00

02:17:18.000 There's no way. 1.00

02:17:19.000 If you have no background in combat sports at all and you're 36 years old and you think you're going to fight in the UFC in a year, that's almost insulting.

02:17:27.000 Kudos to him for giving it a shot.

02:17:29.000 I understand the motivation. 0.70

02:17:31.000 But I got mocked and ridiculed and fucking ended up with a concussion when I did it on the smallest levels. 0.99

02:17:37.000 People who were in fighting, who the fuck is this guy to come into fighting? 0.98

02:17:40.000 So I feel for him that way. 0.98

02:17:42.000 I know he probably really loves fighting. 0.60

02:17:44.000 He just didn't know how shitty was the maximum he could get at this stage. 0.97

02:17:50.000 And that level of shittiness is not good enough to ever fight in the UFC. Never mind debut in the UFC. It's also, I don't think he's that much of an athlete. 0.98

02:17:59.000 No.

02:17:59.000 Like, when I watch him move, there's nothing about him where I go like, well, okay.

02:18:04.000 We're watching, like, Brock Lesnar. 0.99

02:18:06.000 Brock Lesnar was a fucking freak athlete. 0.99

02:18:09.000 You would watch that guy move. 0.99

02:18:10.000 I remember the first time I saw Brock fight.

02:18:13.000 I saw him fight. 0.98

02:18:13.000 I mean, I obviously had seen some videos of him in WWE doing some spectacular shit. 0.98

02:18:19.000 He's a physical specimen beyond compare, right? 0.88

02:18:23.000 But when I saw him fight in K-1, I was in LA when they fought, and he fought some Japanese gentleman, took him down, just smashed him. 0.99

02:18:31.000 I remember thinking, good luck keeping that motherfucker off you. 0.96

02:18:34.000 That's a totally different kind of a thing with this CM Punk guy what you guys a good-looking guy who speaks well It's got a lot of charisma and that led him to the top in wrestling But if you watch his wrestling moves like there's nothing there's nothing ridiculous about it. 0.99

02:18:50.000 You look at his body There's nothing ridiculous about his body.

02:18:53.000 He's not doing anything out of the ordinary He just didn't understand how little knowledge and skill could be acquired in the time that he was going to look at it.

02:19:04.000 He just couldn't know.

02:19:05.000 Well, where's he at now?

02:19:06.000 Have you seen him train?

02:19:06.000 I've seen a bit of it.

02:19:08.000 It looks where you'd think a guy who worked really hard for a year and a half would be, which is okay.

02:19:12.000 Let's watch some of it.

02:19:14.000 See if you can find CM Punk training.

02:19:16.000 What's that?

02:19:17.000 I've been looking right now.

02:19:18.000 There's no videos from any time recently.

02:19:20.000 There's like some stuff I'm looking at from August of last year.

02:19:23.000 Let's try that.

02:19:23.000 The reason I brought him up when I was talking about Anthony Johnson is one of the first things that you find when you go and...

02:19:30.000 Let's see what we got here.

02:19:32.000 I'll tell you.

02:19:33.000 What you find is that you can do these things, but as soon as a guy is moving, you're not in balance anymore.

02:19:39.000 As soon as you're in reality, you're not in balance.

02:19:42.000 I mean, the athleticism stuff here...

02:19:45.000 This is not CM Punk though, this is Luke Rockhold.

02:19:48.000 Oh, CM Punk, EXO's Performance Center?

02:19:51.000 Okay.

02:19:52.000 I mean, that's a guy working out, you know?

02:19:54.000 Yeah.

02:19:54.000 It doesn't show too much.

02:19:56.000 That's it?

02:19:56.000 I saw him hitting pads at one point and it looked like you would think.

02:20:00.000 Look at this.

02:20:02.000 He's jumping up on these boxes.

02:20:05.000 Yeah, I mean, I don't know, man.

02:20:07.000 It's not a knock against him.

02:20:10.000 No.

02:20:10.000 He just didn't know.

02:20:11.000 He was unconsciously incompetent.

02:20:13.000 It's math.

02:20:14.000 It's like we were talking.

02:20:15.000 It's mathematics.

02:20:16.000 It's similar.

02:20:17.000 Okay, here we see his guard.

02:20:19.000 First of all, look at this. 1.00

02:20:20.000 He's a fucking white belt. 1.00

02:20:22.000 This is crazy. 1.00

02:20:23.000 And he's doing this with Henner Gracie.

02:20:25.000 Okay, so he's doing some plank workouts.

02:20:29.000 It's an old video.

02:20:30.000 It's an old video.

02:20:31.000 Okay.

02:20:32.000 But even that, I mean, two years, the reality is, unless you're 20 years old, two years is not really a lot of time to get prepared for something.

02:20:39.000 If you're a 20-year-old guy, you can watch somebody who's a blue belt at 20 years, and then in two years, they're a black belt.

02:20:45.000 That is possible. 0.98

02:20:46.000 If you're obsessed, if you're a fucking maniac, if you're a real nut, if you're some BJ Penn when he was in his prime, but... 1.00

02:20:53.000 You know, this guy probably likes pussy, he likes to eat, he's got bills, he's got taxes he pays, he's probably got media obligations. 1.00

02:21:00.000 It ain't that easy to become a complete fucking obsessed freak. 1.00

02:21:06.000 And then again, the whole thing is like, athletically, his body did not develop to explode. 0.98

02:21:11.000 I have a good buddy of mine who's very good at jujitsu, and I brought him to a boxing gym once, and the guy was holding pads for him, and I was like, oh my god. 0.99

02:21:20.000 Watching him hit pads, I was like, fucking crazy. 0.96

02:21:22.000 He'll nail it. 1.00

02:21:23.000 He's never going to get it.

02:21:25.000 His body did not grow exploding like that.

02:21:29.000 His body moved slow, and it was labored. 0.99

02:21:32.000 It was like me trying to write a fucking book with my left hand. 0.99

02:21:37.000 It was awkward. 0.99

02:21:40.000 He just couldn't do it.

02:21:41.000 And I remember thinking, wow, okay.

02:21:44.000 They're just not there.

02:21:46.000 Is this him here?

02:21:47.000 Yeah.

02:21:47.000 I mean, you can tell that's a white belt who is trained a bit, you know?

02:21:52.000 That's not too bad.

02:21:53.000 Yeah, it's alright.

02:21:54.000 Well...

02:21:55.000 But even the white belt for life thing, that smells of trying not to be, you know... 1.00

02:22:03.000 When he says he's a white belt for life, is what he's saying?

02:22:05.000 Yeah.

02:22:06.000 It reeks of not being judged.

02:22:08.000 And fighting is not a place you want to not be judged.

02:22:11.000 This is not bad.

02:22:12.000 This is not bad.

02:22:13.000 This movement is not bad. 0.97

02:22:14.000 But he's training with Henner Gracie, by the way, who's just a fucking wizard and an awesome instructor. 1.00

02:22:19.000 Okay, that's bullshit. 0.99

02:22:21.000 And there was space as he pushed that off, too. 0.99

02:22:23.000 Yeah.

02:22:24.000 But, you know, it's, hey, man, if this guy was still wrestling and he loved fighting, was talking about it, was fighting on a small scale, Batista fought, and he had a great fight.

02:22:34.000 It was a really good fight for a guy who's only been training for a while.

02:22:37.000 And that's the way to do it.

02:22:38.000 Yeah, that's the way to do it.

02:22:38.000 In a small organization, fight somebody who's, like, at your level.

02:22:41.000 The other thing that really bummed me out is that he just got back surgery.

02:22:45.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:22:45.000 Man, back surgery is fucking tricky as shit, man. 0.99

02:22:48.000 They start chewing away at those discs. 0.99

02:22:50.000 There's other ways to handle that.

02:22:51.000 I don't know how bad it was, but the guy was walking around.

02:22:54.000 And Matt Brown had a good conversation about that recently.

02:22:59.000 I was reading some of the things that Matt Brown said about his own bulging discs because he didn't have to get surgery.

02:23:04.000 He rehabilitated it.

02:23:05.000 But he does a lot of work down at Westside Barbell with Louie Simmons, who created the Reverse Hyper, a machine that we have in the back here.

02:23:13.000 Cool.

02:23:14.000 And I bought one specifically because I knew that Louie had designed it because they were trying to get him to have back surgery and he wasn't buying it.

02:23:21.000 And he was like, there's got to be a way, if there's a way to compress the disc to make it bulge out like that, there's got to be a way to decompress the disc actively and strengthen the area.

02:23:29.000 So he created that reverse hyper machine.

02:23:31.000 And, you know, to see this guy go straight to back surgery like that, when just a few days before that, he was standing there talking to that Mickey Gall kid.

02:23:39.000 Pick an aerial up. 0.99

02:23:40.000 Yeah, I mean, what the fuck is going on, man? 0.99

02:23:42.000 Why are you getting surgery? 0.99

02:23:43.000 Have you reviewed all the options?

02:23:46.000 He was saying to Ariel, I want to fight on either 199 or 200. I hope I got the juice to fight on 200, which is crazy.

02:23:53.000 You shouldn't have any juice, regardless of how famous you are.

02:23:56.000 The juice meaning the notoriety?

02:23:58.000 Yeah, I guess.

02:23:59.000 I don't know.

02:24:00.000 But are you lying to Ariel then because you knew you were having back surgery?

02:24:03.000 Are you lying now that it was weeks before you saw this guy fight?

02:24:06.000 Regardless, I want to pick on the guy because I understand his motivation.

02:24:10.000 But I think if somebody asked my opinion, if he was my friend and he said, what do you think I should do?

02:24:16.000 I'd be like...

02:24:16.000 Why don't you come out and have a long, interesting conversation with somebody, someone you know, Ariel's his friend, and say, listen, I went and I explored this for a long time.

02:24:25.000 I found some incredible things in fighting.

02:24:27.000 It gave me this.

02:24:28.000 I learned this stuff.

02:24:29.000 And what I discovered was there's no way I could fight.

02:24:32.000 That's crazy.

02:24:33.000 It would have been an insult to fighting.

02:24:35.000 And I learned enough to know it.

02:24:36.000 And now that I love it, I want to work for the UFC. I want to do some other things.

02:24:39.000 I want to contribute.

02:24:40.000 People would look and go, honesty, right!

02:24:43.000 That's one of those things we never see.

02:24:45.000 It's so refreshing.

02:24:46.000 Just come out and say, I trained my ass off. 0.99

02:24:48.000 And what I found was only a further appreciation for fucking everybody in this gym and all these fighters. 0.99

02:24:53.000 And I learned enough to understand that I barely know anything about fighting. 0.95

02:24:57.000 But now that I love it, I want to do some other stuff in fighting.

02:25:00.000 We'd all probably go, cool, that's great.

02:25:02.000 That's what he should do.

02:25:03.000 Well, I don't think he can't fight.

02:25:05.000 I think he definitely could fight.

02:25:06.000 I don't think that a year is nearly enough time to fight in the UFC. I think that's preposterous.

02:25:12.000 But I think anybody could fight at a commensurate level.

02:25:15.000 If you could find someone who is at your level, who's been training as long as you have, and have an amateur fight, there's absolutely nothing wrong with not being the best in the world, or not being at a world championship or a world-class UFC level.

02:25:29.000 There's nothing wrong with that.

02:25:30.000 No, nothing at all.

02:25:32.000 I think what insults a lot of people is that he jumped right into the UFC and he did so because, not just because he has notoriety and when he was younger he was a boxing champion or a wrestling champion like Brock was, NCAA national champion.

02:25:46.000 I mean you gotta look at Brock and go, hey man, maybe the guy can actually do it.

02:25:50.000 With him, you never wrestled in high school.

02:25:53.000 You never wrestled in college.

02:25:55.000 You're a white belt in jujitsu.

02:25:57.000 You're a white belt in... 0.95

02:25:58.000 What are you in karate?

02:26:00.000 What are you in Muay Thai?

02:26:01.000 And to not strike until you sign a contract.

02:26:04.000 That to me is insane.

02:26:06.000 Insane.

02:26:06.000 You're having a conversation about maybe fighting in the UFC in two years.

02:26:10.000 You start training yesterday.

02:26:11.000 You don't wait and then figure out what gym.

02:26:14.000 Day one of training striking.

02:26:15.000 That's insanity.

02:26:16.000 Yeah.

02:26:17.000 Well, he went to the right place.

02:26:19.000 Yeah, Duke's amazing.

02:26:20.000 He's such a wonderful guy. 1.00

02:26:22.000 Duke Rufus is the shit. 1.00

02:26:23.000 I mean, that gym is amazing. 1.00

02:26:24.000 He's got fantastic training there, from Daniel Wanderlei to Ben Asperin to Pettis to Duke himself, who's just amazing.

02:26:35.000 Coach Cush, Scott Cushman.

02:26:37.000 He's got a great gym.

02:26:38.000 If I was thinking about fighting, that would be one of the places that I would consider it.

02:26:43.000 Yeah, he did the right thing.

02:26:44.000 Between that, TriStar, Faraz Zahabi, Alliance, Matt Hume.

02:26:48.000 I would just go to Matt Hume right on the spot. 0.99

02:26:49.000 Matt Hume's a fucking genius, man. 1.00

02:26:51.000 He's a goddamn genius. 1.00

02:26:52.000 And he's the most low-key out of all of them. 0.99

02:26:54.000 You don't hear a peep out of that guy.

02:26:56.000 Demetrius and him are, like, symbiotic.

02:26:59.000 Yeah.

02:26:59.000 Like, Demetrius is...

02:27:00.000 Matt Hume's cruising around the world, knows everything about fighting, fought himself, researched his study, loved the martial arts, pursuing it, looking for all the truths of martial arts.

02:27:09.000 And along comes this super athlete.

02:27:11.000 And he's like, oh, I'm going to invest a couple years...

02:27:12.000 See if he really... 0.99

02:27:13.000 Oh shit, he's really becoming... 1.00

02:27:15.000 He learns incredibly well. 1.00

02:27:17.000 He's a good guy.

02:27:18.000 He's a smart person. 1.00

02:27:20.000 Oh shit. 1.00

02:27:21.000 Then once he gets to that level, it's just like, I'm going to commit my life to making you the champion. 1.00

02:27:26.000 And symbiotically...

02:27:27.000 Matt trains with him.

02:27:28.000 Physically trains with him.

02:27:29.000 He's his training partner most of the time. 1.00

02:27:31.000 And he's a fucking genius. 1.00

02:27:33.000 That symbiotic one-on-one thing... 1.00

02:27:35.000 There isn't much of that in the world.

02:27:37.000 There's not many fighters that have one brilliant coach that commits most of their time to them.

02:27:41.000 It's hard to find someone who's willing to do that and then forget about someone who has the knowledge and the ability that Hume has.

02:27:47.000 Because he's not just a knowledgeable guy, but he's very similar in Farah Zahabi in that he's not just incredibly knowledgeable.

02:27:53.000 But he's also incredibly physically capable. 0.99

02:27:56.000 Like, Feroz is fucking nasty. 0.99

02:27:58.000 He's got nasty kickboxing skills and nasty jujitsu. 1.00

02:28:02.000 I mean, and his knowledge is very deep and wide.

02:28:05.000 And I think the same thing can be said of Matt Hume.

02:28:07.000 It's so rare to find a guy like those two guys.

02:28:10.000 Yeah.

02:28:10.000 I admire Faraz and I like him very much.

02:28:12.000 And I just spoke with him the other day on the phone before I went in to do the McGregor one.

02:28:17.000 He was working on something with McGregor and I love the man.

02:28:20.000 He's brilliant.

02:28:21.000 But the one difference is he's got 50 students.

02:28:24.000 And he makes them great and he gives them real time and he dedicates himself to them.

02:28:28.000 But this guy's basically one of a handful.

02:28:30.000 That is crazy.

02:28:32.000 But for us, it's such an interesting martial arts.

02:28:38.000 It seems to have this interesting path where you come along and you learn some moves.

02:28:42.000 And then you learn how it works.

02:28:44.000 And then you do work on your body.

02:28:46.000 And then you learn how to learn.

02:28:47.000 And then you learn strategy.

02:28:49.000 And then all these things grow.

02:28:51.000 And inevitably, you end up at a mental thing and then philosophy.

02:28:54.000 The study of martial arts ends up somewhere the study of philosophy, how to live your life, how to learn, how to improve, how to become better in being a human being, not just in kickboxing.

02:29:05.000 Like, that inevitable result, if you stay on the martial arts path long enough, inevitably you end up, how can I be a better person?

02:29:11.000 Like, how can I get better at being a human being?

02:29:14.000 Well, you find that those things are part of what trips people up.

02:29:18.000 You know, Part of what trips you up in anything you do is if you have personality flaws.

02:29:24.000 If you create problems in relationships and in interrelationship conflict, problems with friends, problem with wife or girlfriend or what have you, those things that make you a bad neighbor will also make you a bad fighter.

02:29:40.000 Because they get in your way, and you realize you've created this unnecessary... 1.00

02:29:44.000 You yelled at your fucking neighbor for no reason because there's dog shit in your lawn or whatever the fuck it is. 1.00

02:29:48.000 You created a problem that didn't need to be there, and now you've got extra friction and conflict in your life that's unnecessary. 1.00

02:29:56.000 Instead of creating some sort of a positive bond by being a really good person.

02:30:01.000 So you learn...

02:30:02.000 Again, no one's perfect, but you learn somewhere along those lines...

02:30:06.000 Okay, if I just approach this in a better, more friendly, more open, more nice, and then I get this positive reward out of that, and then I realize that's the path.

02:30:17.000 The path is to try to be a better person.

02:30:19.000 The path is to try to have more character.

02:30:21.000 The path is to try to be a better friend, to be a better training partner, to make sure that you are pushing your friend towards victory. 0.98

02:30:33.000 You're not trying to kick his ass because you know he's tired. 0.98

02:30:36.000 That's a real issue in gyms, right? 0.99

02:30:38.000 When they run a gauntlet, having a guy that is going to wear you out but is not going to fuck you up because he knows he can, because he knows you're tired, because you just ran with three other guys before.

02:30:47.000 One thing used to drive me crazy where I would be training and I would be exhausted and I would see a guy sitting down waiting, taking the time off of training, not training that round, and then as soon as this round is done, he tries to jump on you.

02:31:03.000 I'm like, you're just sitting down.

02:31:04.000 Why were you just sitting down?

02:31:05.000 And I'll call him out.

02:31:07.000 I'll go, what are you doing?

02:31:08.000 You want to rest and then you want to jump in while you're fresh and other people are tired? 1.00

02:31:12.000 Fuck off, man. 1.00

02:31:13.000 For sure. 1.00

02:31:14.000 Yeah.

02:31:14.000 I remember sparring with a guy, and after I looked, he was wearing, like, novelty boxing gloves.

02:31:19.000 Like, everybody showed up to sparring, and he had little, like... 1.00

02:31:21.000 And it's like, are you out of your fucking mind? 0.98

02:31:23.000 Like, you're looking for an edge over people you're working with, you know? 0.99

02:31:26.000 It's so strange.

02:31:29.000 Those guys are almost always not good.

02:31:30.000 Yeah.

02:31:31.000 But sometimes good enough to hurt you.

02:31:33.000 Yeah.

02:31:42.000 Sure.

02:31:46.000 Sure.

02:31:58.000 You admire those guys.

02:31:59.000 One of them, he never got to the UFC and he's probably close to 40 now, Adrian Woolley.

02:32:03.000 And he was like the best 125 ever going.

02:32:06.000 And when I would go and I had a fight coming up, I wanted some rounds with Woolley.

02:32:10.000 And the reason I wanted them was one, he would push you really hard.

02:32:14.000 But two, he hurt me one time and he's very aggressive.

02:32:17.000 And he hurt me one time and my leg wobbled.

02:32:19.000 And as I circled, I saw him take the time to let me recover.

02:32:24.000 And that's literally the perfect training partner.

02:32:27.000 You want him to push you so hard, as close to a fight as you can handle right now, and understand what you can handle, but not take you past that point of what you can handle.

02:32:35.000 Be a friend.

02:32:35.000 Yeah, and he was literally ornery and aggressive, but I loved having him in the rotation in the last week before a fight.

02:32:43.000 Or a couple weeks of real training before a fight.

02:32:46.000 Because of that.

02:32:48.000 Training partners, some gyms have them.

02:32:51.000 TriStar has some guys, they don't fight.

02:32:52.000 But man, they're a huge important ingredient to every one of those fighters.

02:32:56.000 You know, you were talking about getting that concussion in Jordan Meehan's camp.

02:33:01.000 What happened with Meehan?

02:33:02.000 He just retired.

02:33:04.000 He's really young.

02:33:05.000 Yeah.

02:33:05.000 You know, his dad just fought recently.

02:33:07.000 Really?

02:33:07.000 His dad's like 45. Just enormous.

02:33:10.000 And won.

02:33:10.000 And his dad is a cool dude.

02:33:12.000 I don't know exactly.

02:33:13.000 We talked to Jordan after...

02:33:15.000 He's like 25, right?

02:33:17.000 Yeah.

02:33:17.000 He's got like 30 plus fights.

02:33:19.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:33:19.000 He's fucking talented. 0.99

02:33:20.000 He's super talented. 0.99

02:33:22.000 You see what he did to Mike Pyle?

02:33:23.000 Yeah.

02:33:24.000 You know what I mean?

02:33:24.000 Mike Pyle's brilliant.

02:33:26.000 Mike Pyle's a super fighter.

02:33:27.000 Well, what he was doing to Tiago Alves before he took that body kick.

02:33:31.000 Props to Tiago for figuring a way through that first round and landing that body kick and taking him out.

02:33:36.000 And then to have me and retire like that was really shocking.

02:33:41.000 I'm guessing.

02:33:42.000 So what I'm going to say is...

02:33:43.000 I know Jordan.

02:33:43.000 I like Jordan very, very much.

02:33:45.000 His father and I are very good friends.

02:33:47.000 I'm guessing.

02:33:48.000 But...

02:33:49.000 I picked up bits and pieces of him kind of figuring out, well, I'll get paid real good money when I'm kind of at the top.

02:33:58.000 And then it's like, wait a second, I'm fighting like top five guys.

02:34:01.000 I'm fighting like Tiago Alves level guys.

02:34:03.000 I'm there.

02:34:05.000 Jordan wants to be rich and Jordan wants to be successful in life in some of those ways, and at least he's told me that.

02:34:11.000 And he didn't say anything about pay or any of that stuff, but it was like he's right at the top and he's not becoming wealthy enough for what he's doing.

02:34:20.000 That's my guess.

02:34:22.000 And he loves fighting.

02:34:25.000 But one day he loved other stuff too.

02:34:26.000 He's like, you know what, I didn't...

02:34:28.000 Again, I'm guessing.

02:34:29.000 But a guy like him is like, you know, I didn't have as much sex in high school as a lot of other guys did because I was training all the time.

02:34:35.000 You know, I didn't go on fishing trips as much as other guys because I was training all the time.

02:34:39.000 You know, drinking beer on Saturdays is really fun.

02:34:41.000 Like, all of those things happen.

02:34:43.000 You're 25, you're like, you know...

02:34:45.000 And man, having the guts, the smartness to identify and the guts to quit something, we all as a society think that, like, don't quit anything.

02:34:55.000 Do it for life.

02:34:56.000 To really analytically look and go, this will not give me what I want.

02:35:00.000 Even if I achieve the results I will achieve I don't want or are not enough for me, so I will step away.

02:35:06.000 I admire that. 0.93

02:35:08.000 Like fucking rock bands and I'm trying to think of somebody in particular, Aerosmith or someone like that. 0.99

02:35:15.000 What the fuck is this guy still doing, going up there, playing? 1.00

02:35:18.000 He might love it, but why is he on American Idol? 0.99

02:35:22.000 He needs to still be on TV, or he needs an audience, or he needs to be worshipped, or whatever.

02:35:26.000 You made all the money, you made all the great records.

02:35:28.000 Go and sit on a beach somewhere.

02:35:29.000 People who go, you know, I've done enough of this stuff.

02:35:32.000 I think I'm going to move on to other stuff.

02:35:33.000 We should admire those people, because they're really rare, you know?

02:35:36.000 They are.

02:35:37.000 They are really rare.

02:35:38.000 It's just me and was so talented.

02:35:41.000 You know, another guy like that that vanished is Adlon Amagov.

02:35:44.000 Yeah, right.

02:35:45.000 Yeah.

02:35:46.000 Yeah, I don't know what happened.

02:35:47.000 He became very religious.

02:35:50.000 And I heard that he was going to be...

02:35:52.000 I'd heard some rumors that he was going to be a cleric or something like that.

02:35:55.000 Wow.

02:35:56.000 Because he was a pretty devout Muslim.

02:35:58.000 I don't know what happened.

02:35:59.000 But he was another guy.

02:36:00.000 You're like, wow, that guy was so talented.

02:36:03.000 I used to manage some UFC fighters, a couple all the way up.

02:36:06.000 So it was really to learn.

02:36:09.000 Like everything I could do to learn any angle, fighter, manager, if I could carry the bucket, whatever I could do, I wanted to do.

02:36:15.000 And I came across this guy, Nick Denis.

02:36:17.000 Do you ever remember Nick Denis?

02:36:18.000 Yeah, sure.

02:36:19.000 And I managed Nick and we got him to the UFC. We got Sean Shelby.

02:36:22.000 I fucking loved Nick. 0.98

02:36:23.000 And you should. 0.99

02:36:24.000 If you go and watch his first fight or his fights in the UFC, he fought like a caveman.

02:36:29.000 The guy has a master's degree in biochemistry, I think.

02:36:32.000 He's brilliant.

02:36:33.000 But when he fought, he loved fighting like a caveman.

02:36:36.000 And he retired because he said he was taking head trauma.

02:36:39.000 Yeah, he did.

02:36:40.000 He didn't like it.

02:36:40.000 Yeah, and he...

02:36:42.000 We talked about it, and he talked with other people about it.

02:36:45.000 It's like, could I fight different ways?

02:36:47.000 Yes, but he likes fighting like a caveman, and fighting like a caveman will result in brain damage.

02:36:53.000 He got knocked out by Marlon Sandro in Sengoku.

02:36:59.000 And then he said, after he recovered from that one, he said, you know, if I ever get another concussion, I'm going to retire.

02:37:04.000 And then after the last fight he had, he had a broken orbital bone, and he thought, why am I waiting until after I've sustained the damage to step away?

02:37:14.000 Why am I saying, it's okay to take one more large amount of damage?

02:37:17.000 If I'm going to step away, let's just go.

02:37:19.000 Let's step away.

02:37:21.000 He's a brilliant guy, one of the most interesting and cool guys.

02:37:23.000 I haven't talked to him in a while.

02:37:24.000 I'm going to make sure to...

02:37:25.000 Give him a call or something.

02:37:27.000 He's such a brilliant guy.

02:37:28.000 Very, very smart guy.

02:37:29.000 And he's a guy who's using an example of someone who's very wise in recognizing the risk versus reward and realizing the reward's not worth it anymore.

02:37:38.000 And there's going to come a time for all these guys.

02:37:41.000 They have to decide, like, when is it over?

02:37:44.000 You know, when we were talking about the pursuit, like...

02:37:48.000 Getting after something and being obsessed with something and wanting greatness.

02:37:52.000 There comes a time where that's no longer in your mind and you're still on this path because it's something you've always done.

02:38:00.000 Because you've been a fighter for X amount of years and so this is what you're doing.

02:38:03.000 You're going into training camp but you don't have that fire inside you like you did when you first started or when you were improving or when you were at your best.

02:38:10.000 And that's when you need to stop.

02:38:11.000 Yeah.

02:38:12.000 It's just so hard for people.

02:38:13.000 It's really hard.

02:38:15.000 One of the things I've heard before is people will...

02:38:19.000 Paulie Malanaji, I never pronounced the name well, who is actually a brilliant commentator.

02:38:24.000 Very, very good. 0.98

02:38:25.000 Very fucking good. 0.98

02:38:26.000 Love listening to his comments. 0.98

02:38:27.000 He's one of my favorites in boxing.

02:38:28.000 He is very good.

02:38:30.000 He wrote an article about how his passion and desire to get back to fighting, and everyone told him he shouldn't, but it's just in him he needs that.

02:38:37.000 That cannot be the motivating factor.

02:38:40.000 Among the reasons that that's 100% true it can't be is because when you're 60, you're still going to have that.

02:38:46.000 That's never going to go away.

02:38:48.000 So just having that does not mean go fight because you'll always have that.

02:38:52.000 It's one of many pieces of a pie chart that you have to have in place.

02:38:56.000 Yes, but if you're going to have it your whole life, it's irrelevant whether you have it or not because you know you have it and one day you're going to have to retire even though you have it.

02:39:03.000 So that can't be a part of the decision process.

02:39:06.000 I think you probably didn't see that Rocky movie when Rocky was like 59 and he decided, you know, just thinking about maybe having a fight.

02:39:14.000 Yeah.

02:39:15.000 Remember that?

02:39:15.000 Yeah.

02:39:16.000 That was the one where he was... 1.00

02:39:19.000 Who the fuck did he... 1.00

02:39:20.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:39:21.000 Tommy Gunn?

02:39:22.000 No, no, no, no.

02:39:23.000 It was after that.

02:39:24.000 Oh, yeah.

02:39:24.000 Was it...

02:39:25.000 The one where he fought the guy who knocked out Roy Jones Jr. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:39:29.000 I don't know, Tarver.

02:39:30.000 Tarver.

02:39:30.000 Yeah.

02:39:30.000 Tarver.

02:39:31.000 Magic Man. 1.00

02:39:31.000 And, you know, which was fucking ridiculous. 1.00

02:39:34.000 And apparently he got knocked out in training. 0.99

02:39:35.000 Yeah.

02:39:36.000 In training for that.

02:39:37.000 Yeah.

02:39:37.000 At like 60, whatever the hell he was, getting punched in the face by Tarver.

02:39:41.000 Yeah.

02:39:41.000 When we're...

02:39:42.000 Yeah, insane.

02:39:43.000 When we're looking at Anderson Silva fighting, one of his very favorite fighters is Roy Jones Jr. There it is.

02:39:51.000 Look at that.

02:39:51.000 Come on, son.

02:39:53.000 What the fuck are we even looking at? 1.00

02:39:55.000 That's insane. 1.00

02:39:56.000 He's like 70 years old and he looks 30. Yeah, I mean, it's amazing what testosterone replacement therapy has done for him.

02:40:03.000 But the fact that he could try to sell that.

02:40:08.000 Jesus, look at him.

02:40:08.000 He shredded...

02:40:10.000 Incredible.

02:40:11.000 How old was he when he made this movie?

02:40:12.000 In his 50s.

02:40:13.000 At least.

02:40:15.000 2006, 10 years ago.

02:40:16.000 At least.

02:40:17.000 How old is he now?

02:40:19.000 Let's find out how old he is now.

02:40:21.000 Because that would mean that he had to be like 57 then, I think.

02:40:25.000 Yeah, if he's 67 now.

02:40:26.000 69 now.

02:40:27.000 So he's 59. Oh my god, that's insane.

02:40:30.000 That's science, man.

02:40:31.000 That's science.

02:40:32.000 Jesus Christ.

02:40:33.000 I love...

02:40:34.000 This is so...

02:40:35.000 It's so insane.

02:40:37.000 People always try to say he's 5'6".

02:40:38.000 I'm 5'8".

02:40:39.000 I stood next to that dude and maybe he had lifts in his shoes, but he's taller than me.

02:40:43.000 Really?

02:40:44.000 Yeah, everybody always tries to pretend he's so tiny.

02:40:46.000 That's some weird thing that people do.

02:40:49.000 They always try to pretend that people are tinier than they are.

02:40:51.000 Oh, he's only like 5'5".

02:40:53.000 Yeah, he's only like 3 feet tall.

02:40:54.000 I am 5'8".

02:40:55.000 I don't wear lifts in my shoes.

02:40:57.000 I never have.

02:40:58.000 I have terrible posture. 0.99

02:40:59.000 I'm short as fuck. 0.99

02:41:00.000 I'm 5'6". 1.00

02:41:01.000 But when I stood next to him, he's bigger than me.

02:41:04.000 I expected him to be what everybody says.

02:41:07.000 Like, I want to meet Tom Cruise because everybody says he's tiny too.

02:41:10.000 He might not be tiny either.

02:41:11.000 He might not be.

02:41:12.000 I don't know why that would be something that people do, but whatever it's perceived as undermining, people just tend to do that.

02:41:20.000 Yeah, people love doing that.

02:41:21.000 They love doing that.

02:41:22.000 You realize you don't have to do that.

02:41:24.000 Like when you see people, you know, Rhonda comes out and says that she had a horrific experience. 1.00

02:41:29.000 People are like, yeah, fuck her. 1.00

02:41:30.000 And then when you're like, you know, why are you reacting this way? 1.00

02:41:32.000 They're like, well, she brought it on herself.

02:41:34.000 But yeah, but you're still choosing to have that response.

02:41:36.000 You could easily have a different response.

02:41:39.000 You could easily have a different perspective. 1.00

02:41:40.000 Yeah, but that's a long path to improvement for an asshole. 1.00

02:41:44.000 You're like trying to improve a troll with one sentence. 1.00

02:41:47.000 That's like not going to happen. 0.56

02:41:49.000 There's a lot of people also, their life sucks and they see someone who's doing as good as she was doing when she was on the top.

02:41:54.000 I mean, was it Sports Illustrated called her the most dominant female athlete of all time?

02:41:59.000 And, you know, there's just so much hype and fanfare. 0.92

02:42:03.000 And then also there's all the shitty things that she was saying to her opponents and the way she was talking to them. 1.00

02:42:09.000 And the Misha Tate thing, when she did the show with her, and she would win the competition, she'd be like, fuck you. 0.99

02:42:15.000 And after she beat her, she walked away and wouldn't shake her hand. 1.00

02:42:18.000 There was so much fuel for the haters.

02:42:21.000 But it still feels like you don't have a choice but must hate.

02:42:25.000 Like, you do have a choice.

02:42:26.000 Of course.

02:42:26.000 I just feel like sometimes when we say these things, and I do it all the time, I'm guilty of it as charged, but it's almost like you're yelling out into the abyss.

02:42:35.000 Yeah.

02:42:36.000 Right.

02:42:36.000 Yeah, I guess.

02:42:39.000 All you can do is hope that you keep offering up that there is another choice than that.

02:42:43.000 But we also have a binary culture.

02:42:46.000 There was this article I read, The Tinderization of America. 0.99

02:42:49.000 We're either going to swipe, yes, yep, want a fucker, or left, nope, don't. 0.99

02:42:53.000 And that thought process, that binary process has actually influenced how our culture thinks. 1.00

02:42:59.000 Ronda Rousey is either the greatest athlete ever or she fucking sucks and she's terrible. 1.00

02:43:05.000 She can lose and still be the greatest athlete ever. 1.00

02:43:08.000 She can still be a 99 out of 100, but we can't have that in our culture. 1.00

02:43:11.000 She's a left swipe or a right swipe. 1.00

02:43:13.000 And people only want one or the other.

02:43:17.000 There's gray areas in everything in the world.

02:43:19.000 And the gray area is where the beauty is. 0.99

02:43:21.000 It's where the interesting, fascinating shit is. 0.99

02:43:23.000 And where our culture is making it so that we don't look there. 0.99

02:43:27.000 Because of that swipe, though, is why a real winner like Conor is so spectacular.

02:43:32.000 Because with the amount of scrutiny, with the amount of pressure that's on him to still perform the way he did and win in 13 seconds by knockout, then you are the hero.

02:43:42.000 And then that's also why people were shitting on Aldo after that fight so badly.

02:43:46.000 Right. 0.78

02:43:46.000 Aldo was the greatest pound for pound. 0.78

02:43:49.000 Now he's terrible.

02:43:50.000 No, he's still among the greatest.

02:43:52.000 He had a decade of being the greatest.

02:43:55.000 Maybe he's now been surpassed by somebody.

02:43:57.000 It's been a long career.

02:43:58.000 A lot of damage.

02:44:00.000 A lot of damage.

02:44:01.000 A lot of hard fights.

02:44:03.000 Plus the gym wars.

02:44:04.000 Oh, yeah.

02:44:05.000 Yeah, and you talk about how they trained back then.

02:44:08.000 Oh, yeah.

02:44:08.000 He used to live in the gym, probably trained all day, every day.

02:44:10.000 His body's all broken down.

02:44:12.000 Sparring with Andy Sauer on a regular basis.

02:44:15.000 I mean, Sauer's like an all-time K-1 great.

02:44:18.000 By the way, that was Carlos Condit's first kickboxing fight.

02:44:20.000 Yeah, I saw that.

02:44:21.000 Yeah, I saw that. 0.99

02:44:22.000 How fucking crazy is that? 0.98

02:44:23.000 He's got zero fights. 0.99

02:44:24.000 He fought a guy with 100 fights.

02:44:26.000 Unbelievable. 0.99

02:44:27.000 Un-fucking-sane. 0.97

02:44:28.000 I loved it. 0.98

02:44:29.000 I watched much of that podcast that you did with him.

02:44:33.000 You were saying Vanderlei would be one of your three favorites.

02:44:36.000 Those things do change every time we talk.

02:44:38.000 We would have different ones thinking differently.

02:44:40.000 But Kanda's absolutely one of my favorites.

02:44:41.000 Yeah, he's a tough, tough guy.

02:44:44.000 That fifth round with Lawler was just insane.

02:44:46.000 I thought he won that fight.

02:44:47.000 It was very close.

02:44:49.000 Very close fight.

02:44:50.000 Very close fight.

02:44:51.000 That one...

02:44:52.000 Yeah, I mean, what I thought was beautiful... 0.96

02:44:56.000 It didn't really fucking matter to him. 0.94

02:44:58.000 He was seeking that fight. 0.98

02:45:00.000 And he had that fight.

02:45:02.000 And what three guys sitting at the side think doesn't take anything away from the 25-minute brilliant experience that he had that will affect him positively for the rest of his life.

02:45:12.000 And would he like to do it again?

02:45:14.000 Maybe.

02:45:14.000 Maybe not.

02:45:15.000 Maybe that was, you know, I don't know, man.

02:45:17.000 He's only got a few more left in him, I think.

02:45:19.000 You know, I think Carlos is a really smart guy.

02:45:21.000 And I think he's also got a lot of other things that he could do with his life.

02:45:24.000 He's very intelligent.

02:45:25.000 And what made him such a great fighter would make him greater than anything he chooses to do.

02:45:30.000 And I think he's got a realistic perception of how much longer his body can go through those kind of training camps and those kind of fights.

02:45:38.000 Yeah, I mean...

02:45:40.000 Andy Sauer was his first.

02:45:42.000 That's insane.

02:45:43.000 He loved it.

02:45:44.000 Yeah, I know.

02:45:44.000 I saw that.

02:45:45.000 He said, you know, it was such a great experience for him.

02:45:48.000 He gave me one of the great quotes when I was trying to figure out more about fighting, and it was actually relevant to what we're saying about Dominic Cruz and you're talking about, we showed the footwork drills and how he moves.

02:45:58.000 And I asked Condit because he's like that and he's very special.

02:46:02.000 And I said, when you're doing that, when you go into a fight, are you working with pre-planned sequences?

02:46:09.000 So you'll run sequence A twice or three times on Robbie and when he starts reacting to sequence A, you'll trick him with sequence B. Are you running these things?

02:46:16.000 Are you improvising what's happening?

02:46:18.000 And the way he put it was brilliant.

02:46:19.000 He said, some of the time I'm reading the sheet music.

02:46:22.000 And I'm just reading the sheet music and playing it.

02:46:24.000 And other times I just go off on a solo and I just improvise.

02:46:28.000 And Stephen Thompson, McGregor, Cruz, Hawley, that's what the best are doing.

02:46:37.000 They have sheet music.

02:46:38.000 Some nights the sheet music is going to be killer.

02:46:40.000 Everybody's going to applaud.

02:46:41.000 It's going to be fantastic.

02:46:42.000 Other times you've got to go off on some crazy jazz odyssey to make it work.

02:46:45.000 And sometimes it's a bit of both.

02:46:47.000 Well, that was a big thing with Anderson, just recognizing where those patterns were and being able to create something in the moment.

02:46:54.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:46:54.000 What do you think about Anderson versus Bisping?

02:46:57.000 Like I was saying, Roy Jones Jr. is one of his favorites.

02:46:59.000 And you saw what happened to Roy Jones when he got older.

02:47:01.000 It will happen eventually.

02:47:03.000 Is it now?

02:47:04.000 Or is it in a year?

02:47:05.000 Or is it in five years?

02:47:06.000 It's going to happen.

02:47:08.000 I mean...

02:47:12.000 I played a troll game with Anderson Silva, and not with him, but Sherdog used to ask for predictions.

02:47:19.000 And I just picked against Anderson on everyone, because everybody was picking Anderson.

02:47:22.000 I thought it was funny.

02:47:23.000 I mean, Stefan Bonner is going to defeat Anderson Silva and be considered the greatest.

02:47:27.000 It was comedy.

02:47:29.000 So friends who know me or people who follow our channel know that.

02:47:34.000 So when I say I think Bisping's going to win, they think I'm just still playing that.

02:47:37.000 But I do probably think that when we picture Anderson Silva, we're picturing him in there against Forrest in the greatest moments.

02:47:44.000 And that's not what I expect him to be.

02:47:47.000 I don't expect him to be like that anymore.

02:47:50.000 The fact that he was one of the greatest fighters of all time and brilliant and beautiful to watch and did incredible things, that's not diminished in any way.

02:47:57.000 Yeah, but what's fucked up is that wasn't that long ago.

02:48:00.000 What's really crazy about him was Stefan Bonner was like, what was that, 2013?

02:48:05.000 Yeah, 12 or 13. So four years ago, he was the wizard.

02:48:10.000 He was the greatest of all time.

02:48:11.000 Now, he's barely hanging on.

02:48:13.000 He took a whole year off.

02:48:14.000 He fought Weidman twice.

02:48:15.000 Broke his leg in half.

02:48:16.000 Right.

02:48:16.000 Took a whole year off.

02:48:18.000 Also broke his leg and then tested positive after the Diaz fight.

02:48:24.000 Took that year off.

02:48:25.000 So he's in some weird place right now.

02:48:29.000 We don't know what his body's going to be like.

02:48:33.000 Bisping's accusing him of taking steroids his whole career.

02:48:35.000 That could be partly gamesmanship or he might know something.

02:48:38.000 I don't know.

02:48:39.000 All of those things hint to me, point towards not expecting him to be his best.

02:48:45.000 If he's not his best, Michael Bisping is the most underappreciated, underrated, undervalued by his opponents.

02:48:51.000 Tough, fundamentally really good.

02:48:53.000 He's not going anywhere.

02:48:55.000 He's got hard, smart punches.

02:48:57.000 Not knockout punches, but enough to make you aware.

02:48:59.000 Everything he does is intelligent, well-placed.

02:49:02.000 He can get emotional, and that might be something Anderson will want to play with.

02:49:05.000 But, I mean, I just don't I'm not imagining Anderson Silva from his highlight reels.

02:49:11.000 I'm imagining a guy who had his leg broken in half, lost twice, 100% of the fights he's had since then, which was the Diaz fights.

02:49:18.000 He didn't have brilliant performances.

02:49:19.000 So we haven't seen him have really a brilliant performance since Yushin Okami, years back.

02:49:24.000 Now, could he come out and be mind-blowing?

02:49:26.000 That'd be amazing.

02:49:28.000 Yeah.

02:49:28.000 Well, Bonner was his last fight before.

02:49:31.000 I guess I'm kind of undervalued.

02:49:32.000 Yushin was a spectacular performance.

02:49:35.000 Spectacular, yeah.

02:49:35.000 And he had many of them.

02:49:36.000 And just because I played, picked against him for a comedy, I don't want my friends of ours or people who watch Fight Network to think I don't like Anderson Silva.

02:49:44.000 He's 40. Yeah, exactly.

02:49:45.000 He's 40. Unless you're on some shit, 40 is 40. And it's hard to be on shit now. 1.00

02:49:51.000 Almost impossible. 1.00

02:49:52.000 Almost impossible.

02:49:53.000 Listen, Robin, we ran out of time.

02:49:55.000 That was three hours.

02:49:56.000 Just ran through three hours.

02:49:57.000 It's crazy.

02:49:58.000 And we did it.

02:50:01.000 Thanks, brother.

02:50:02.000 We've got to do this more often.

02:50:02.000 Let me know when you're in town again.

02:50:04.000 Let me know when your breakdown of Conor McGregor and Rafael dos Anjos goes live.

02:50:09.000 I'll tweet it.

02:50:10.000 We'll get it out to people.

02:50:10.000 Thanks, brother.

02:50:11.000 Thank you, brother.

02:50:11.000 Appreciate it very much.

02:50:13.000 All right, folks.

02:50:14.000 See you guys on Sunday with the Fight Companion.

02:50:16.000 Much love.

02:50:17.000 Bye-bye.

The Joe Rogan Experience - February 19, 2016

Joe Rogan Experience #762 - Robin Black

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