The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #815 - Cameron Hanes

00:00:02.000 We're back, world.

00:00:04.000 I used to say America, but foreign people get upset. 1.00

00:00:07.000 Poor bastards living in other countries. 0.56

00:00:09.000 Sad enough, they can't be graced on our patch of dirt.

00:00:13.000 I just had to explain to Cameron Haynes that when your iPhone, when you use a bunch of apps...

00:00:19.000 You double click on that bottom button, and then it shows you all the apps that are running in the background.

00:00:24.000 Most people don't know this.

00:00:25.000 Most people just use their phone.

00:00:27.000 Right.

00:00:27.000 But that's a fucking resource robber right there, buddy.

00:00:30.000 Yeah.

00:00:30.000 You gotta be careful.

00:00:31.000 I learned something today.

00:00:32.000 Yeah.

00:00:32.000 I have to show people things.

00:00:34.000 Thank you.

00:00:35.000 When I'm showing you tech tips, you know you're tech retarded. 1.00

00:00:39.000 I'm a little behind the curve.

00:00:42.000 So what's happening, brother?

00:00:43.000 How you feeling, man?

00:00:44.000 You just ran 100 miles like a week ago.

00:00:46.000 Yeah, I did.

00:00:47.000 It was about a week ago, right?

00:00:49.000 It was, yeah.

00:00:50.000 It was last Saturday and Sunday, so ended on Father's Day.

00:00:54.000 All in preparation for a 200-mile run in August.

00:00:58.000 That's right.

00:00:59.000 Goddamn, dude.

00:01:01.000 Yeah.

00:01:01.000 We were talking about today, like the mental games that your brain starts playing on you.

00:01:07.000 Yeah.

00:01:07.000 And you were describing all the shit that your brain starts doing to you while you're running.

00:01:11.000 Yeah, I was...

00:01:13.000 There's so many peaks and valleys when you push yourself like that, and it's...

00:01:19.000 You know, I was thinking about all the ways I could quit, how I could come up with an excuse to how I could get out of this race. 1.00

00:01:28.000 And really, I could say anything, because who's going to ever question it?

00:01:32.000 Because it's like, okay, how many people have ever run for 24 straight hours, right?

00:01:36.000 So you can't really question me, but it's just, I push myself.

00:01:41.000 So, I mean, I couldn't live with myself if I quit the race. 1.00

00:01:43.000 But I'm not saying I wasn't thinking about how nice it would have been to stop running.

00:01:47.000 Yeah.

00:01:47.000 Well, anytime you're working out, I mean, if you just think about a yoga class, which is like 90 minutes.

00:01:53.000 Yeah.

00:01:53.000 Those last 20 minutes, you're totally thinking about, it'd be so nice to just get the fuck out of this hot room, drink some cold water, but you just power through.

00:02:00.000 Now multiply that times 24. Yeah.

00:02:04.000 And way harder.

00:02:05.000 Yeah.

00:02:05.000 Because you're running, you're exhausted, you're in pain.

00:02:08.000 I can't even imagine.

00:02:09.000 I'm saying all these things and I'm just guessing what it's like.

00:02:11.000 Well, I teamed up with a pretty good runner, Joe Yuhan, to start the race.

00:02:16.000 He was getting a workout in.

00:02:18.000 He was pacing at the Western States 100, which was this last weekend.

00:02:23.000 So he wanted to get a good workout.

00:02:26.000 So I was like, oh, cool.

00:02:27.000 I can knock off a bunch of miles with him.

00:02:29.000 So we were running pretty fast.

00:02:31.000 Pretty fast for, you know, when you have to run for 24 straight hours.

00:02:34.000 But we knocked off 10 miles quickly.

00:02:36.000 And I remember I was running with him.

00:02:38.000 And I was, you know, after you run 10 miles, you know you've done something.

00:02:41.000 And I was thinking to myself, I got 90 more miles left to do.

00:02:47.000 I felt like I'd already got a pretty good workout, and I hadn't even got started, really.

00:02:52.000 You felt like you were done, and you had 90 miles left.

00:02:57.000 Yeah.

00:02:58.000 So it's, you know, you talk about mental strength and just keep hammering, basically.

00:03:05.000 You just got to keep hammering.

00:03:06.000 That is daunting.

00:03:07.000 And what is it like when it's over?

00:03:10.000 What is the feeling like when you cross, when it's 24 hours, the time's up, you look at your distance, 102 miles, what does that feel like?

00:03:19.000 It feels good.

00:03:21.000 Most days, and this is just me, I can't expect anybody to be able to relate to my screwed up mind, but I mean, me personally, I can go run 15 miles, get a good workout, Go home and an hour later,

00:03:39.000 I'm thinking I could have done more.

00:03:41.000 I'm not satisfied.

00:03:43.000 So the big thing for me is when I've done something like that for one of the few times throughout the year, I feel satisfied that I gave what I had.

00:03:53.000 Wow.

00:03:55.000 So it's just so brutal that you never feel like you could have done more.

00:03:59.000 No, no, no, no.

00:04:00.000 I always think I could have done more.

00:04:01.000 No, I'm disappointed with myself.

00:04:05.000 Just because in that race, and I can try to have it make sense, I can be logical about it, and I can say, well, I went out really fast because I wanted to be as miserable as possible for as long as possible to prepare myself for the Bigfoot 200. So I can say,

00:04:21.000 well...

00:04:21.000 I ran super hard for 4 hours hoping I was going to be miserable for 20 and I knew my pace would be slower and it would be more painful but in the big picture it will help me.

00:04:32.000 But that's just words.

00:04:33.000 To me I'm thinking I was in first place through 50 miles.

00:04:38.000 I did 50 miles in 8 hours.

00:04:43.000 And so I was on pace for a lot of miles.

00:04:46.000 I was second place at 62 miles and at 12 hours I had run, I think, 65 miles.

00:04:54.000 So I'm on pace for 130, so I really died.

00:04:57.000 And yeah, I can use words and say, well, it was a plan, it was part of being miserable and preparing myself for a greater challenge, but I also feel like, you know, I gave up miles and I could have got my most miles ever and I should have got 120 plus miles.

00:05:20.000 And so, yeah, there's always the feeling I could have done more, even though, but I'm a little bit satisfied.

00:05:25.000 God!

00:05:26.000 Now, at the end of it, so you're killing it at 50 miles.

00:05:31.000 Mm-hmm.

00:05:31.000 You're in first place.

00:05:32.000 Mm-hmm.

00:05:33.000 And then is it just simply a matter of you're just muscle fatigue and pain?

00:05:38.000 Pain.

00:05:38.000 It's pain for me.

00:05:39.000 You can only push so far.

00:05:41.000 Yeah.

00:05:41.000 Yeah, I can't speak for anybody else.

00:05:43.000 Probably for some people it's fatigue, some people it's just mental exhaustion.

00:05:49.000 For me, it's pain.

00:05:50.000 It's just I've run, you know, I did my first marathon in 2002, so I've been doing this for, whatever, 14 years.

00:05:59.000 Multiple marathons every year, back to back sometimes.

00:06:03.000 My body is not 100%.

00:06:07.000 I can push, I have a high pain tolerance, but eventually it adds up.

00:06:14.000 And so it's pain for me.

00:06:17.000 So is it joint pain, knees, everything?

00:06:20.000 Is it just the whole body?

00:06:22.000 It's waist down, hips, knees, ankles, feet.

00:06:26.000 And how long does it take you to recover?

00:06:28.000 Like, you were telling me that your legs are swollen twice the size of normal?

00:06:31.000 Yeah, last year, last year was way worse.

00:06:34.000 This year, I had, I put in a bunch of miles.

00:06:37.000 Leading up, I was running about a half a marathon a day, so my body was, is pretty fit and pretty used to it.

00:06:45.000 So my recovery was much shorter.

00:06:47.000 I mean, I, and again, People aren't gonna understand this, but the day after I ran 102, I ran 13 miles.

00:06:57.000 And that was just because when I run the Bigfoot 200, I'm gonna have to be able to come back after, you know, multiple days of being hurt and banged up.

00:07:06.000 And that's the name of the game, you know, to cover 200 miles.

00:07:11.000 In a couple days like I want to, I'm not going to be 100%.

00:07:14.000 So I thought, well, I can't know what it feels like to run after I run 100 miles unless, one, I run 100 miles, and two, I run the day after.

00:07:28.000 So you can't simulate that.

00:07:30.000 There's no way to simulate that.

00:07:31.000 So you ran 13 miles the day after you run 102 miles.

00:07:34.000 And what the fuck is that like?

00:07:35.000 Mm-hmm.

00:07:37.000 It'd be using the running term loosely.

00:07:39.000 It was painful, slow.

00:07:41.000 I was hiking the uphills.

00:07:43.000 Running would be like...

00:07:45.000 I probably looked like a 90-year-old man trying to run.

00:07:49.000 It freaking hurt.

00:07:52.000 But I did it.

00:07:53.000 Are your legs totally swollen when you're doing this?

00:07:55.000 Yeah.

00:07:57.000 My ankles are all swollen and calves don't really have an ankle.

00:08:02.000 It's the same size from my foot up.

00:08:06.000 I mean, it's not good for me.

00:08:08.000 I mean, anybody who talks about doing hundreds, hundreds aren't good for probably anybody.

00:08:14.000 So it's, yeah, I know that what I do isn't in the best interest of my body, but it's just the name of the game.

00:08:23.000 It's what I do.

00:08:24.000 So what you do is not in the best interest of your body.

00:08:27.000 You understand this.

00:08:28.000 You're very aware of this.

00:08:29.000 And you're a professional bowhunter, essentially.

00:08:32.000 But you have this thing in your head where you have to push yourself as far and as hard as possible to find out for yourself, to set goals, to try to push past this pain and endurance barrier that you have.

00:08:47.000 Is that what it all is?

00:08:50.000 I'm just trying to make sense of it because it's not like you're getting paid to do these.

00:08:53.000 No.

00:08:53.000 These are amateur races.

00:08:54.000 No, I'm not getting paid at all.

00:08:55.000 This is just for me.

00:08:56.000 I used to think I was an idiot for competing in martial arts matches for no money.

00:09:01.000 Yeah.

00:09:01.000 But this is crazy.

00:09:05.000 You're doing this at 48 years old with a family, with a job, and you're still...

00:09:12.000 Yeah, it's just me.

00:09:13.000 It's just what I feel like I need to do.

00:09:17.000 Do you know how long you're going to continue to do this?

00:09:21.000 No, but people have told me when I started doing marathons and running the mountain back home, like I said, I don't know, years ago, 15 years ago, and people said then, well, if you keep running like this,

00:09:37.000 by the time you're 40, you won't be able to run.

00:09:39.000 And so here I am.

00:09:41.000 They always say that.

00:09:42.000 Yeah, I know.

00:09:43.000 So the point to that is I don't really care.

00:09:47.000 I don't do it for anybody.

00:09:48.000 I don't do what I do for anybody else just for me.

00:09:51.000 I feel like I need to do this.

00:09:52.000 I like pushing my limits.

00:09:55.000 That's why, you know, if I would have listened to people tell me what I shouldn't do or couldn't do or nobody could do, I wouldn't have done hardly anything in my life.

00:10:05.000 So the point is, I don't care.

00:10:07.000 I don't care what anybody says.

00:10:08.000 I don't care what anybody thinks.

00:10:09.000 I just, this is what I do.

00:10:10.000 I need to do it.

00:10:12.000 I like finding my absolute limit and seeing how much I can withstand, and that's all this is.

00:10:17.000 Yeah, that's a weird thing that people always do.

00:10:20.000 Hey, if you do that...

00:10:22.000 It's going to kill you.

00:10:23.000 If you do that, it's going to break you down.

00:10:24.000 What are you doing lifting weights?

00:10:26.000 You know, I've heard the people that lift weights actually live shorter lives.

00:10:30.000 Right.

00:10:31.000 There's always these people that want to tell you to not do that.

00:10:34.000 You know, I'm always like, why are you doing it?

00:10:36.000 But I'm never going to tell you don't do it.

00:10:38.000 I just don't understand that.

00:10:40.000 There's something to that mentality.

00:10:42.000 We were kind of talking about this earlier today.

00:10:44.000 I think there's something in some people where they see someone doing something crazy that they can't do, and they want to figure out...

00:10:52.000 There's got to be something wrong with you, and they've got to figure out a way to criticize you, instead of saying, wow, that guy's fucking crazy.

00:10:58.000 Or, wow, that's a crazy commitment.

00:11:00.000 I don't want to do it, but I... Respect.

00:11:04.000 Appreciate it.

00:11:04.000 Instead of doing that, they try to like poke holes that may not even be there.

00:11:09.000 You know, they try to...

00:11:11.000 You're kind of admitting that it's not good for you.

00:11:14.000 Not kind of.

00:11:15.000 You're 100% admitting these aren't good for you.

00:11:17.000 No, absolutely.

00:11:17.000 It's not.

00:11:17.000 But it is good for you in one way.

00:11:20.000 Like your mind desires this extreme challenge.

00:11:25.000 And that keeps you very calm and sane.

00:11:28.000 Mm-hmm.

00:11:29.000 See, you're the kind of guy where I feel like if that didn't exist, you'd have real problems just integrating and relating to regular society.

00:11:41.000 Probably.

00:11:41.000 I mean, that's...

00:11:42.000 I don't know.

00:11:44.000 I don't know what I would be like without the challenge that I take on.

00:11:48.000 But part of me feels like if I didn't do it, I would be a shell of myself as far as I wouldn't be living up to my ability.

00:11:55.000 My whole thing is like...

00:11:57.000 If I'm able to do it, I need to attempt it.

00:12:00.000 I need to try.

00:12:01.000 I need to do it.

00:12:02.000 I mean, because I just think that people need to live up to their full potential.

00:12:05.000 That's all I'm doing.

00:12:07.000 Is there anything else, though, that you think is interesting in that way?

00:12:11.000 It's a competitive thing in some ways.

00:12:14.000 Because you were saying, hey, I'm first place at 50 miles.

00:12:17.000 But somewhere along the line, it becomes more you're pushing yourself.

00:12:22.000 It becomes less of you.

00:12:25.000 You're not really engaging with someone else, even if you're racing them.

00:12:28.000 You're really kind of all in your own mind, right?

00:12:31.000 Yeah, it's a...

00:12:34.000 Yeah, I look at it more of just a competition with myself than with another racer or another person.

00:12:41.000 Of course, if I'm running, it would be cool to be first.

00:12:46.000 I'm a competitive person.

00:12:48.000 There's no doubt.

00:12:49.000 But what I do, my workouts are always by myself.

00:12:54.000 Nobody's pushing me.

00:12:55.000 It's just me.

00:12:56.000 And setting the goals to run Bigfoot 200 or whatever, that's just me.

00:13:01.000 I don't know if anybody, I might not even see anybody during that whole race.

00:13:05.000 So it's just like, you know, I think there's 75 or so people signed up, but it's going to be probably pretty spread out pretty quickly, just depending on how fast people go out or do whatever.

00:13:17.000 Over 200 miles point to point.

00:13:19.000 So I could go, you know, two complete days and not see anybody.

00:13:24.000 So yeah, it's not, it's not really, it's not like the Olympic 100 meter dash where you're lined up against, you know, eight other guys and you see exactly where everybody's at.

00:13:35.000 It's, this is more about a test of personal will.

00:13:38.000 So.

00:13:40.000 You know, we were talking today also where a guy that we know who's kind of an expert in a lot of physical things was saying, why don't you take EPO? All these people that you're racing against are probably taking EPO. It's not like they're going to test you.

00:13:53.000 Yeah.

00:13:54.000 But you're like, well, EPO's probably not going to help me with pain.

00:13:57.000 Yeah.

00:13:58.000 And I don't really know what EPO does, but all I know is what limits me is just that pain.

00:14:05.000 So unless something can make me mentally stronger, I don't know if it's going to help.

00:14:11.000 In a race like that, because it's not like you're going super fast.

00:14:15.000 It's not like the pace is extraordinary.

00:14:17.000 It's just grinding.

00:14:19.000 Those ultramarathon guys are seeking help with edible marijuana.

00:14:23.000 That's a big one lately.

00:14:25.000 Apparently it's big with a lot of these ultramarathon guys, where it just reduces inflammation in some way that they find very beneficial, as opposed to non-steroidal anti-inflammatories, which we'll probably get into too.

00:14:38.000 We should talk about that.

00:14:39.000 Because of the Rhonda Patrick thing.

00:14:41.000 But these ultra-marathon guys, now that it's becoming more and more acceptable to use cannabis, these people are coming out and talking about it.

00:14:52.000 It's interesting that it benefits them in that way.

00:14:55.000 Because jujitsu people have been saying it for years.

00:14:59.000 People always associate marijuana with you being lazy.

00:15:02.000 But with a lot of jujitsu guys, they find that it makes them more creative and more tuned into what they're doing.

00:15:09.000 And also able to, you know, jujitsu can be pretty painful too.

00:15:13.000 But although it's a different kind of pain, it's pain in short...

00:15:17.000 Short exchanges are painful.

00:15:19.000 You don't want to tap and you fight your way out of a choke or something like that.

00:15:23.000 But the grinding, monotonous pain of what you're doing is kind of a different kind of pain.

00:15:30.000 If I talk about what it would be like, I'm just talking out of my ass.

00:15:34.000 Here's what I will say.

00:15:36.000 If somebody would have offered me some edible cannabis at mile 80 last weekend...

00:15:42.000 You would have taken it?

00:15:44.000 I would have done almost anything to make the pain stop, but I have a regular job.

00:15:52.000 I get surprise drug tests at work.

00:15:54.000 How often do they surprise drug test you?

00:15:56.000 God, I don't even...

00:15:58.000 I don't know.

00:15:59.000 Probably...

00:15:59.000 I don't know.

00:16:01.000 Once a year.

00:16:02.000 And what are they testing for?

00:16:04.000 I don't know.

00:16:04.000 They just want your pee?

00:16:06.000 Yeah.

00:16:07.000 Give me your pee, man.

00:16:08.000 Yeah, I don't know what they do.

00:16:09.000 But, I mean, I'm not, you know...

00:16:10.000 There's something fucked up about that, because it's one thing if you were doing a terrible job.

00:16:16.000 Yeah.

00:16:16.000 Like, say if you're, like, a guy who handles heavy machinery, you keep cutting off people's fingers.

00:16:21.000 Like, hey, man, maybe we should test Cam.

00:16:22.000 What the fuck is he up to?

00:16:24.000 Cam's high as fuck.

00:16:25.000 You know?

00:16:26.000 It's not that.

00:16:28.000 It's just, they just decide, like, even if you're doing your job well...

00:16:32.000 They still feel like they can test your body and find out what you're doing.

00:16:37.000 And it's also, one of the real problems is it's rooted in ignorance.

00:16:41.000 Because if you have this stuff in your system, like say if you smoke pot on a Friday, you get off work, have a joint, you know, go play baseball with your son, have a good time.

00:16:50.000 It's not like you're high on Monday when you show up for work, but it'll still be in your system.

00:16:54.000 Yeah.

00:16:55.000 So, they're making sure you're not doing anything that they don't like when you're not there.

00:17:00.000 I don't...

00:17:01.000 You know, the part of it...

00:17:03.000 I don't really care, personally, because I live a clean life.

00:17:06.000 I mean, I don't drink, don't smoke, don't do whatever.

00:17:09.000 I mean, so they can test whatever, but I think part of it is...

00:17:15.000 It's one of the best places to work in the area.

00:17:18.000 So they figure that, you know, part of the stipulation of working here is you're subjected to these drug tests.

00:17:24.000 If you don't like it, you don't have to work here.

00:17:26.000 Right.

00:17:27.000 Oh, I get it.

00:17:28.000 I mean, it's...

00:17:29.000 I get it.

00:17:31.000 They're probably not testing for pot and thinking...

00:17:33.000 I'm sure they are testing for pot, but I mean, it's, you know, I think they test for alcohol.

00:17:39.000 How can they test for alcohol?

00:17:41.000 I think they do.

00:17:42.000 You'd have to be drunk there.

00:17:44.000 You'd have to be drunk out of the job.

00:17:46.000 You'd have to have a drink at lunch.

00:17:49.000 People could do that.

00:17:50.000 I'm not saying people do that, but they could.

00:17:53.000 But you could get hammered on Friday and Monday be clean as a whistle.

00:17:58.000 Right.

00:17:59.000 Yeah, when they always do it is, they'll call like at, you know, I start work at 7, so it'll be like 7.15.

00:18:06.000 Hey, you need to be to wherever in 15 minutes.

00:18:09.000 Right.

00:18:10.000 So I think it's just, they don't want somebody out hammered drunk at 3 in the morning.

00:18:15.000 Right.

00:18:15.000 You know, and probably still show up there at 7.30 or whatever.

00:18:17.000 That totally makes sense.

00:18:18.000 Yeah.

00:18:19.000 That totally makes sense because, yeah, you are compromised.

00:18:21.000 And even if you show up and you're stoned at work, for a lot of people they are compromised.

00:18:26.000 I understand the idea that you would want someone to not have a drug problem.

00:18:32.000 Right.

00:18:32.000 Because we all know people that have had problems.

00:18:35.000 For me, the most disturbing one has been people that I know that have had pill problems, like speed and things along those lines, because a lot of times they're functional.

00:18:43.000 But just a little off.

00:18:44.000 And if you're dealing with important stuff, you could be making critical decision errors because you're impaired.

00:18:51.000 So they might have hired you based on your critical thinking and your reasoning, but then that's all being compromised by a drug, and there's only one way to find out what the fuck is going on with you.

00:19:02.000 Testing, yeah.

00:19:03.000 That makes sense.

00:19:04.000 The problem with the cannabis thing is twofold.

00:19:07.000 One, it stays in your system.

00:19:09.000 You can test for it for weeks and weeks after it's psychoactive.

00:19:13.000 Because it's fat soluble.

00:19:14.000 And two, because this assumption that if you use something, you abuse something.

00:19:20.000 Right.

00:19:21.000 It's not accurate.

00:19:23.000 And it only applies to losers.

00:19:25.000 So if you say, whoa, look at all these losers.

00:19:27.000 They get high every day.

00:19:28.000 Well, yeah.

00:19:29.000 Okay.

00:19:29.000 But they're also losers.

00:19:31.000 Yeah.

00:19:32.000 Yeah.

00:19:33.000 There's a lot of people...

00:19:34.000 Not responsible people.

00:19:35.000 I mean, but when I say losers, I don't mean if you get high every day, you're a loser.

00:19:38.000 I know people that get high every day, and they're super successful.

00:19:41.000 Yeah.

00:19:41.000 Businessmen, IT guys, I know a lot of people.

00:19:44.000 I know people that micro-dose LSD all the time, and they run multi-million dollar businesses, and they do it all the time.

00:19:52.000 Yeah.

00:19:52.000 But...

00:19:54.000 Their personality is such that recreationally, they don't have an issue.

00:19:58.000 They can do things and doesn't overwhelm their life.

00:20:02.000 But some people can't gamble.

00:20:03.000 You know what I mean?

00:20:04.000 Some people, like if you play poker with some people, they'll lose their fucking mind.

00:20:08.000 Next thing you know, they're on a flight to Vegas and they're going crazy and they lost their mortgage.

00:20:12.000 Right.

00:20:12.000 It's a disease.

00:20:13.000 Right.

00:20:13.000 It's a legitimate mental disease.

00:20:15.000 Not in a sense that you catch it, you know, oh man, I didn't wash my hands, I caught Vegas.

00:20:19.000 You know, it's not like that, but it's a legitimate disease in the sense that it can fuck with your mind in a way that is almost out of your control, like a cold makes your physical health out of your control.

00:20:32.000 Like when I have a cold, I get upset at myself.

00:20:34.000 Because I'm like, you fucking dummy.

00:20:36.000 You let yourself get run down, you know, you didn't get enough sleep, you didn't, you know, whatever it is, you traveled too much, and here you are, now you feel like shit.

00:20:43.000 This is stupid.

00:20:44.000 Well, that's sort of the same thing that happens to people when they get a gambling addiction.

00:20:50.000 So, it's not a substance thing.

00:20:52.000 It's not like saying, you know, Cam, we're going to test you for gambling.

00:20:55.000 Did you play poker with your buddies over the weekend?

00:20:58.000 How much did you gamble?

00:20:59.000 Oh, ten bucks.

00:21:00.000 Too much!

00:21:01.000 You know, you can't do that to people.

00:21:03.000 You can't...

00:21:04.000 I think that there's a real problem with that.

00:21:07.000 And, you know, I mean, I guess you could say if you're the employer and, you know, this is the kind of people that you want and it's up to you to do that.

00:21:15.000 I don't fucking buy that.

00:21:17.000 Yeah.

00:21:18.000 I don't buy that.

00:21:18.000 I say if the guy's doing a good job, there should be no issues.

00:21:21.000 Right.

00:21:22.000 Well, I think they're a fair employer, so I think even if you did test for something and you were a good employee, they're going to work through whatever issues you have.

00:21:35.000 Yeah, they're going to make you go to rehab with a bunch of losers.

00:21:37.000 Maybe.

00:21:38.000 And sit around talking about pot.

00:21:40.000 Can you imagine what it's like going to a rehab if you smoke a little weed and you get popped at work and you've got to go to a rehab with a bunch of stone-cold junkies?

00:21:48.000 Yeah.

00:21:49.000 They're all covered in scabs, clawing at fake spiders all day and freaking out.

00:21:54.000 Or they're ultra-marathon runners.

00:21:56.000 Well, we were talking about that.

00:21:58.000 Just don't test me after the Bigfoot 200, please.

00:22:01.000 I'm going to get you some, man.

00:22:03.000 I'm going to get you a ton of it.

00:22:04.000 Take a couple months off work after that.

00:22:07.000 There was a pre-workout supplement that we were talking about on the way up here, too, where they pulled it off the shelf because they found fucking meth in it.

00:22:14.000 Straight up meth.

00:22:15.000 It's like a meth-like substance that had never been tested on human beings.

00:22:20.000 And they had to pull this shit off the shelf.

00:22:22.000 I asked Joe what it was called because you know that stuff would work.

00:22:26.000 Try that stuff.

00:22:27.000 People get super addicted to that, though.

00:22:31.000 You know, this ain't like coffee.

00:22:33.000 I'm probably addicted to coffee.

00:22:34.000 I fucking love coffee.

00:22:35.000 Oh, I love coffee, too.

00:22:36.000 What coffee is this?

00:22:38.000 This is caveman coffee.

00:22:40.000 This is some delicious roast.

00:22:42.000 What kind is this?

00:22:42.000 Do you remember what roast it is?

00:22:44.000 There was that saber tooth.

00:22:45.000 Was it the saber?

00:22:46.000 It was the end of one.

00:22:47.000 I think it was that, yeah.

00:22:48.000 Yeah.

00:22:49.000 Goddamn, that's it.

00:22:50.000 That delicious stuff with the silver writing.

00:22:52.000 Woo! 0.99

00:22:53.000 That's good stuff.

00:22:54.000 Yeah, it's really good coffee.

00:22:55.000 As far as right now, I'm just trying to keep my body as pure as possible.

00:23:00.000 I mean, I'm not even doing pre-workout at all because I'm so cognizant of what my heart's doing.

00:23:04.000 Right.

00:23:04.000 Because I'm pushing it so hard every day, and I've always got my heart rate monitor on.

00:23:10.000 Even during that ultra that I just did, the 24-hour, we were running fast and never got above 141 or 142 beats per minute.

00:23:18.000 So, I mean, when I take pre-workout, obviously it's going to ramp up my heart rate.

00:23:24.000 So, my work definitely doesn't have to worry about anything in me right now.

00:23:28.000 I'm just trying to stay calm, stay like an efficient machine out there, and I'm feeling good, actually.

00:23:36.000 That's awesome.

00:23:36.000 Mm-hmm.

00:23:37.000 Can you imagine if you took a pre-workout and you got popped from meth?

00:23:40.000 Go to work and they're like, hey Cam, what the fuck are you doing?

00:23:43.000 I'm eating healthy, working out, taking super jacked formula number six.

00:23:48.000 Yeah.

00:23:50.000 Oh, let's test that.

00:23:51.000 You're a meth head.

00:23:52.000 Well, we have a real issue with that in the UFC. Mm-hmm.

00:24:17.000 And super common, man.

00:24:19.000 Super common.

00:24:19.000 And, you know, a lot of people, like, you know, people online would love, yeah, yeah, that's what it was.

00:24:25.000 It was a tainted supplement.

00:24:26.000 But they're actually testing these supplements.

00:24:28.000 When these guys get caught, like, for instance, Tim Means, he's a perfect example.

00:24:33.000 Like, he was only suspended for a very short amount of time.

00:24:35.000 They gave him six months retroactive to the day where he got caught.

00:24:39.000 He was supposed to have this fucking amazing fight with Cowboy Cerrone.

00:24:41.000 That would have been an incredible fight.

00:24:42.000 Yeah.

00:24:43.000 Tim Means is super, super skillful.

00:24:45.000 So they take...

00:24:46.000 Tim Means, he tells them what the supplement was.

00:24:49.000 They go to a store independently, take it off the shelf, test it, and they go, yep, sure enough, it has a steroid in it.

00:24:56.000 So there's a lot of this stuff that people are buying that they think is safe and easy.

00:25:00.000 If it works like that, you know, if it's like...

00:25:04.000 I put on 10 pounds in 3 hours!

00:25:07.000 There's some shit in there, dude!

00:25:09.000 The stuff that works, works a little bit.

00:25:13.000 You get a little bit of an advantage.

00:25:15.000 Everything that's healthy and then legal that you could use, like creatine.

00:25:20.000 Creatine works.

00:25:21.000 You get like a little bit.

00:25:22.000 Just a little bit of a bump.

00:25:23.000 Just a little bit of a bump.

00:25:24.000 And you can add a little bit of this and a little bit of that.

00:25:26.000 And this stuff helps that.

00:25:27.000 And that stuff helps.

00:25:28.000 Then you take this before you go to bed.

00:25:29.000 It'll help your growth hormone increase.

00:25:32.000 And all that stuff is like little incremental little edges.

00:25:35.000 It works.

00:25:36.000 It all works, but a little bit.

00:25:37.000 Yeah.

00:25:38.000 I did that with Complete Nutrition.

00:25:40.000 I think it was like 2011. They had some of that stuff and did...

00:25:46.000 Taking a few different things, and it worked.

00:25:49.000 Totally worked.

00:25:50.000 I definitely put on muscle, and I was like, dang, this stuff is awesome.

00:25:53.000 So got done, went back in there like, oh, remember that stuff that is something Nova or something like that?

00:25:59.000 They're like, yeah, they pulled that.

00:26:01.000 It was too strong.

00:26:03.000 I'm like, oh, so that's it.

00:26:04.000 I mean, it definitely worked.

00:26:06.000 The problem with that is, you know, like young guys especially, they'll take whatever, but that stuff is hard on your liver.

00:26:13.000 You know what I mean?

00:26:14.000 Those supplements going through your liver like that.

00:26:17.000 It's also hard on your balls.

00:26:20.000 Probably, yeah.

00:26:21.000 Dude, I took the stuff called Mag-10.

00:26:23.000 Mag-10 is the most powerful thing that I ever took.

00:26:25.000 They pulled that off the shelf.

00:26:27.000 Did they?

00:26:27.000 Yeah, you used to take 10 clear pills a day.

00:26:31.000 You just look like a total pill head.

00:26:34.000 I mean, it's like a stack of these pills, and they're clear.

00:26:37.000 Yeah.

00:26:37.000 And they probably look super toxic on your liver.

00:26:40.000 Probably.

00:26:40.000 God damn, did I get jacked.

00:26:42.000 Did it work?

00:26:44.000 Yeah.

00:26:45.000 Oh my God, yeah.

00:26:47.000 But it's, you know, you're manipulating your hormones.

00:26:50.000 Yeah.

00:26:50.000 And it's tricky.

00:26:51.000 Doing that is tricky because you have to really be concerned with taxing your endocrine system.

00:26:56.000 Your endocrine system shuts down.

00:26:58.000 It's like, well, why does this guy have, you know, all this goddamn extra testosterone system?

00:27:02.000 I guess we don't have to make testosterone anymore.

00:27:04.000 Right.

00:27:04.000 Balls crash, so your balls take a break.

00:27:07.000 And when your balls go on vacation, then it takes like a couple weeks for them to get back up to speed after you're done.

00:27:12.000 Because if you're on that stuff, like say if you're on for like six weeks, I think they say it takes like at least three for your body to get back to normal.

00:27:21.000 Your body to like go, whew, okay.

00:27:23.000 Really?

00:27:24.000 Looks like, you know, it's like your balls are like a haunted house.

00:27:27.000 Like everybody goes in and shines a flashlight around.

00:27:30.000 We okay?

00:27:30.000 We can go back to business now?

00:27:32.000 What the fuck was going on in here?

00:27:34.000 What is this guy taking?

00:27:36.000 You know, your body's not used to you taking something.

00:27:39.000 It's processed through your digestive system, and it's testosterone.

00:27:44.000 And all of a sudden, you're like, what is this?

00:27:46.000 Where's it coming from?

00:27:46.000 Why is it coming from the liver?

00:27:48.000 Right.

00:27:48.000 What is this shit?

00:27:49.000 Getting absorbed by your stomach and your intestines.

00:27:52.000 This crazy testosterone stuff.

00:27:55.000 You know what's better?

00:27:56.000 Just eat elk.

00:27:57.000 That helps.

00:27:58.000 That does help.

00:28:00.000 There's a bunch of different foods that make your body produce more testosterone.

00:28:08.000 Here's an interesting thing that a lot of people are finding when they're going on ketogenic diets.

00:28:14.000 And this is several people, including me, that have done this, where once you start going on these ketogenic diets and you get your testosterone tested, and this is people that are on testosterone replacement and people that are not on testosterone replacement.

00:28:28.000 I've had three different friends who have similar results, where your test just gets jacked.

00:28:33.000 So, what turns out that fats are one of the most important things, like healthy fats and essential fatty acids and even saturated fats and even cholesterol, is one of the most important things for your body to convert to testosterone.

00:28:51.000 For your body to produce testosterone, it needs those precursors.

00:28:54.000 It needs those important aspects of nutrition.

00:28:57.000 Which is really interesting because for so long, people thought that low-fat diets were healthy.

00:29:02.000 And low-fat was the way to go, and low-fat will make you have more energy, you'll be healthier.

00:29:08.000 But it turns out that's not necessarily true.

00:29:11.000 And it's weird because what was like doctrine 20 years ago, or 10 years ago, now they go, well, that's not the case.

00:29:19.000 I was reading my kid a book, a Dr. Seuss book.

00:29:21.000 Yeah.

00:29:22.000 And it was a nutrition pyramid.

00:29:24.000 Oh, okay.

00:29:24.000 And at the bottom of the pyramid, like, the most important shit was bread.

00:29:27.000 It was, like, bread and grains.

00:29:29.000 Like, that is not...

00:29:30.000 No.

00:29:30.000 That's...

00:29:31.000 No.

00:29:33.000 Where's the vegetables?

00:29:34.000 Right.

00:29:35.000 Why is that fucking...

00:29:36.000 Why is the bottom useless calories like pasta?

00:29:39.000 That's so stupid.

00:29:41.000 Yeah, and that's exactly...

00:29:42.000 People just pound that stuff in the evenings and wonder why they can't lose weight.

00:29:46.000 Yeah.

00:29:46.000 You know, that's the biggest thing is those late night carbs that aren't getting burned up.

00:29:51.000 Well, it gets converted to sugar, and also there's the insulin.

00:29:54.000 That's the real issue.

00:29:56.000 It's a giant issue with your body getting this insulin spike.

00:30:00.000 And it's just not good for you.

00:30:02.000 It's just not good to have that much goddamn sugar.

00:30:04.000 It doesn't exist in nature in that form.

00:30:07.000 Yeah.

00:30:07.000 So we've developed these very weird bodies.

00:30:11.000 And ever since I've been on this...

00:30:14.000 You know, high fat, low sugar kick.

00:30:17.000 I was always aware that people are overweight.

00:30:19.000 So it's natural.

00:30:21.000 You see it everywhere.

00:30:22.000 No big deal.

00:30:23.000 But it's stunning when you really start taking an actual, like an inventory.

00:30:29.000 Yeah.

00:30:29.000 Start looking around at all these people.

00:30:30.000 Oh, I know.

00:30:31.000 Belly fat, and face fat, and neck fat, and arm fat, and We're capable of so much.

00:30:38.000 And then you see people who, you know, and I understand people are going through things or challenges, have different challenges in their life.

00:30:45.000 I get it.

00:30:46.000 But our bodies are so amazing.

00:30:50.000 Don't have to let them get to that stage, for sure.

00:30:52.000 It's unfortunate because it's so hard to change.

00:30:56.000 Once you're at that stage, it's so hard and you feel terrible.

00:31:00.000 And again, this is like me talking about marathon runners and talking shit.

00:31:04.000 I've never gotten enormously obese.

00:31:05.000 But I would imagine, I've gotten fat enough where I'm disgusted with myself.

00:31:08.000 And that's like, you know, 10 pounds overweight.

00:31:11.000 But I think it just, they feel like it's too much work.

00:31:17.000 It's almost like Right.

00:31:19.000 Right.

00:31:39.000 Somebody's asked me, like, how do you stay in that cryogenic chamber for three minutes at 250 degrees below zero?

00:31:46.000 How?

00:31:46.000 I said, I just count to 60 three times.

00:31:48.000 Yeah.

00:31:49.000 And they're like, that's it?

00:31:50.000 I go, yeah, that's all I do.

00:31:51.000 I count to 60. I go, one, two, three, and I get to 60, and I go, we're done with one.

00:31:57.000 One, and then I do it again.

00:31:58.000 And then by the time I get to the third minute, I'm shivering, but I'm just counting to 60. It's not that hard if you play a little game.

00:32:07.000 Right.

00:32:07.000 Well, it's no different.

00:32:08.000 So if you want to try to do 25 reps in the gym, you don't do 25. You do five sets of five.

00:32:13.000 Exactly.

00:32:13.000 So you just break that down.

00:32:15.000 Everybody has, you know, people are different.

00:32:17.000 People break things down differently.

00:32:20.000 You know, I've been thinking about this Bigfoot 200 race, and I'm thinking, well, maybe I should break it into 50-mile races.

00:32:25.000 You know, just break it down, 450s.

00:32:27.000 Try to get it done.

00:32:29.000 So, it's, you know, everybody's different.

00:32:31.000 Psychological games.

00:32:31.000 Yeah.

00:32:33.000 I do that when I do the Hindu squats. 0.99

00:32:34.000 I do 200 Hindu squats.

00:32:36.000 And the way I do it is I do them by tens.

00:32:38.000 I just do, and I have a clicker, so I can't cheat.

00:32:41.000 Yeah.

00:32:42.000 Because you will fucking forget.

00:32:43.000 While you're in the middle of that, you're like, what, am I on 30?

00:32:45.000 Am I on 40?

00:32:46.000 I have to look at the clicker.

00:32:47.000 So I count, and then at the end, I check the clicker to make sure I'm right.

00:32:51.000 There you go.

00:32:51.000 But I break it down to 10s.

00:32:53.000 I just do 10, and I do 10 more, 20, and then 30. And I do it like that.

00:32:58.000 I think of it as each one being a 10-squat increment.

00:33:02.000 So then when I get through, it doesn't seem so daunting that I do 10 squats and I have 90 or 190 to go.

00:33:07.000 I think of it as just...

00:33:09.000 Each little 10-squat little event that I'm doing.

00:33:12.000 That's the way to do it.

00:33:12.000 Here's another 10-squat event.

00:33:14.000 Here's another 10-squat event.

00:33:15.000 But that's nothing.

00:33:17.000 That's nothing.

00:33:19.000 Well, compared to what you're doing.

00:33:21.000 Yeah.

00:33:22.000 Well, you're also taking a fucking rock and throwing it in a backpack.

00:33:26.000 Running up the hill.

00:33:27.000 That's ridiculous, too.

00:33:28.000 Not running, but getting up the hill.

00:33:31.000 A lot of guys are doing that now, though.

00:33:34.000 A lot of guys are not with your rock, the way you do it, but many guys are taking sandbags now and packing them down just like they would.

00:33:44.000 If you had a heavy backpack, And you have seven miles to go to get back to the truck.

00:33:51.000 There's nothing you can do but walk those goddamn seven miles with that heavy backpack.

00:33:55.000 It's not going to get out on its own.

00:33:57.000 No.

00:33:58.000 And that's the thing.

00:34:00.000 That's just hard manual labor. 0.60

00:34:03.000 That's all there is to it.

00:34:04.000 I mean, when you start hunting elk in the backcountry or even deer in the backcountry or whatever you bear, you've got to get that thing back to the truck.

00:34:11.000 And so there's some guys who can just beast it, who don't train, who can just say, well...

00:34:17.000 I'll just take some time and I'll get it out.

00:34:19.000 There's a few guys who can do that and just one step at a time type thing.

00:34:23.000 Most guys have to train to be in that position.

00:34:26.000 Most guys, yeah, without a doubt.

00:34:28.000 It's very physically taxing.

00:34:31.000 When you and I were in Colorado and we packed out that bowl, what did we walk?

00:34:36.000 Maybe six-tenths of a mile?

00:34:39.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:34:40.000 At most.

00:34:41.000 Three quarters of a mile?

00:34:42.000 It could have been three quarters of a mile.

00:34:43.000 At most, three quarters of a mile.

00:34:45.000 And, you know, only had like 100 pounds on.

00:34:49.000 And imagine, like, I think Remy was the one who was talking about it.

00:34:53.000 Remy Warren of the fabulous show Apex Predator.

00:34:57.000 He was on the podcast talking about how he had to pack a moose out.

00:35:00.000 I think it was a moose.

00:35:02.000 Seven miles.

00:35:02.000 Yeah.

00:35:03.000 And at the end, he was just broken for like months.

00:35:07.000 His body was just dead.

00:35:08.000 Oh, I know.

00:35:09.000 It's, you know, when I killed that moose up in Alaska with Roy, you know, our last hunt together, a moose, and that was up over a big ridge into another canyon, you know, it was four miles, it wasn't seven like Remy's, but it was 600 pounds of meat,

00:35:25.000 so how are you going to get 600 pounds of meat?

00:35:28.000 I mean, it's going to be 100 pounds at a time, and Up over the hill.

00:35:32.000 Jesus Christ.

00:35:33.000 It's a grind.

00:35:35.000 But, you know, through snow, we walked...

00:35:38.000 Roy thought it was a better route just to go down the creek, like walk in the creek.

00:35:43.000 Yeah.

00:35:44.000 I came up the ridge.

00:35:47.000 He hadn't been in there that way, kind of up the ridge, staying out of the creek.

00:35:51.000 He'd always come up the creek because, if you know Roy, it's like the hardest possible way to do things.

00:35:56.000 That's how he wanted to do it.

00:35:57.000 So, our first loadout...

00:36:00.000 We were walking down the creek, just feet.

00:36:03.000 Imagine walking in a creek with a hundred and some pounds on your back.

00:36:08.000 The alders are catching your backpack.

00:36:11.000 I mean, it's exhausting.

00:36:13.000 So on the way back in, I'm like, dude, we've got to stay up on that ridge.

00:36:17.000 You're going to love the ridge.

00:36:19.000 And it was just like probably five times easier.

00:36:23.000 Why would walking in the creek be good?

00:36:25.000 The only thing I could think of is if you were so hot from carrying all that weight that it would cool you off a little bit, but then you'd be wet.

00:36:32.000 No.

00:36:32.000 His thought was, you know, there's so many, so much, the brush is so thick.

00:36:38.000 So if you're not fighting brush, if you're in the creek, you know, usually the creek is pretty open.

00:36:43.000 Right.

00:36:43.000 And he had cut some of the brush that was growing over the creek out of the way, so he sort of had a trail cut in there, and he came in there the year before.

00:36:50.000 I think he killed a bull back in there.

00:36:52.000 So we sort of had a trail cut in there, but the walking in the creek with the slipping and sliding and everything else, we went on the ridge and he's like, wow, this is way better.

00:37:07.000 Rinella's brother fucked his back up so bad that he had to buy llamas.

00:37:11.000 Yeah.

00:37:12.000 He was carrying out an elk and apparently he just fucked his back up.

00:37:16.000 Yeah.

00:37:16.000 Just, you know, Rinella and his brothers, they're all savages.

00:37:20.000 They're all relentless.

00:37:21.000 Sure.

00:37:22.000 They're these fucking hill-climbing psycho goat people. 1.00

00:37:25.000 Yeah.

00:37:25.000 That just don't get tired and they just push each other.

00:37:28.000 And I'm sure growing up they all pushed each other hard.

00:37:30.000 Knowing Ranella and then hearing a story about his brother, I'm sure they're basically the same way.

00:37:34.000 And that I think he just said, fucking toughen up, pussy.

00:37:38.000 And he kept going and his back was just jacked.

00:37:41.000 So then he got llamas.

00:37:42.000 So now he takes these llamas in a van and when he drives, he has these llamas pack the meat out for him.

00:37:49.000 Yeah.

00:37:50.000 Me and Roy had llamas.

00:37:51.000 We bought llamas for $100 a piece.

00:37:54.000 For the exact same thing.

00:37:56.000 What is it like keeping a llama?

00:37:58.000 You don't hardly have to do anything.

00:38:00.000 Really?

00:38:00.000 I mean, when you pay $100 for them, who cares?

00:38:04.000 That's fucked up.

00:38:06.000 It's a slave, poor slave llama. 0.99

00:38:08.000 I know.

00:38:08.000 Bullshit.

00:38:09.000 No, but they're really hardy animals.

00:38:12.000 Yeah.

00:38:12.000 And they can't pack like a horse can pack.

00:38:16.000 So if they pack 70 pounds and you've got four of them, well, there's 280 pounds you're not packing on your back.

00:38:21.000 Right.

00:38:22.000 You know, that adds up.

00:38:23.000 So that's why we had them.

00:38:25.000 And they would pack, even if they didn't pack much meat, they'd pack our camp and we could take extra food and things like that.

00:38:30.000 So we'd go in the wilderness with our four llamas and It's great.

00:38:35.000 And they just hang out.

00:38:37.000 They don't get cold.

00:38:38.000 No, and they don't need water either.

00:38:40.000 They're sort of like camels.

00:38:41.000 What?

00:38:42.000 Yeah.

00:38:43.000 You don't even have to worry about water.

00:38:45.000 When you have horses in the backcountry, wrangling the horses is like a whole different responsibility, a whole extra responsibility.

00:38:53.000 You have to make sure they have water.

00:38:54.000 You have to feed.

00:38:56.000 They can kind of figure it out in the high country.

00:38:58.000 But they have to get water every day.

00:39:00.000 So, you can't be gone from camp for extended periods with llamas.

00:39:05.000 Who cares?

00:39:07.000 Remy was on a horse hunt and they were riding a horse and one of the guys was on the horse and the horse fell and snapped its leg.

00:39:16.000 The horse broke its leg?

00:39:17.000 Yeah, the horse broke its leg.

00:39:18.000 And the guide just said, alright, well, everybody back up.

00:39:23.000 Had to shoot the horse.

00:39:25.000 And so Remy was like, well, this seems like you're just going to leave it here?

00:39:29.000 Yeah.

00:39:30.000 So he cut the back straps off of it.

00:39:32.000 Off the horse?

00:39:32.000 Off the horse.

00:39:33.000 Yeah.

00:39:35.000 Yeah, that happened.

00:39:36.000 I mean...

00:39:36.000 I think he cooked it, too.

00:39:37.000 Didn't he say he cooked it?

00:39:39.000 I don't know.

00:39:40.000 I ate horse before.

00:39:42.000 Yeah?

00:39:42.000 I ate horse at an amazing restaurant in Montreal.

00:39:45.000 Oh.

00:39:45.000 Joe Beef.

00:39:46.000 Twice.

00:39:47.000 Two different occasions they served his horse.

00:39:48.000 Yeah.

00:39:49.000 One time it was...

00:39:50.000 You were like, yeah?

00:39:51.000 Well, okay.

00:39:52.000 Okay.

00:39:54.000 No.

00:39:54.000 Personally, I wouldn't eat horses.

00:39:55.000 I've seen horses dead in the backcountry.

00:39:57.000 Same thing.

00:39:58.000 You wouldn't eat a horse?

00:40:00.000 Probably not.

00:40:01.000 If you went to a restaurant, a super fancy restaurant like Joe Beef, and they served you a horse tenderloin.

00:40:08.000 I'd say, hey, could I get that filet?

00:40:10.000 You wouldn't try it?

00:40:12.000 Probably not.

00:40:13.000 Really?

00:40:13.000 You wouldn't just try it?

00:40:14.000 I grew up around horses, love horses.

00:40:19.000 We have ridden a lot and I remember I was hunting in Australia with Adam Greentree and they call them Brombees back there so it's just wild horses and we were sitting there under a tree as hot as I mean 120 degrees Fahrenheit it's crazy hot we're just sitting there boiling here's this white stallion coming A Bromby.

00:40:40.000 And Adam's like, oh, that's a beautiful trophy.

00:40:46.000 What?

00:40:46.000 A beautiful trophy to shoot?

00:40:48.000 Yeah, they shoot them.

00:40:49.000 What?

00:40:49.000 Yes, they're wild horses.

00:40:51.000 A trophy?

00:40:52.000 What a weird way to look at a horse.

00:40:54.000 Well, that's why people hunt, right?

00:40:56.000 Is it?

00:40:57.000 You hunt for food.

00:40:58.000 I mean, does he eat the horse?

00:41:01.000 What is he going to do with it?

00:41:02.000 Stuff it?

00:41:03.000 There's a horse I shot.

00:41:04.000 People are going to be like, what a fucking psycho?

00:41:06.000 No, the thing in Australia is all those are feral animals, so they need to be killed.

00:41:11.000 So there's no law that says you need to take the meat off whatever you kill.

00:41:14.000 They just want the animals dead.

00:41:16.000 That is so strange.

00:41:17.000 There's too many of them.

00:41:18.000 I mean, they'll fly over parks and just wipe out the buffalo, the water buffalo, because they just ruin all the water sources.

00:41:27.000 They don't get killed.

00:41:28.000 There's way too many of them.

00:41:29.000 They were introduced.

00:41:29.000 They're from Asia.

00:41:30.000 And so they need the numbers controlled.

00:41:34.000 They need them gone, basically.

00:41:36.000 So yeah, I mean, a wild horse...

00:41:39.000 Same thing.

00:41:40.000 Their sensibilities are so contrary to ours.

00:41:44.000 When you think about what hunting is over here and what hunting is over there.

00:41:48.000 For people that are aghast listening to this.

00:41:50.000 By the way, Adam is fucking awesome.

00:41:52.000 I love this guy.

00:41:53.000 He's not a slight against him.

00:41:55.000 No.

00:41:55.000 He's amazing.

00:41:56.000 But his environment is very different than our environment.

00:41:59.000 And this is what's different.

00:42:00.000 Australia didn't have hardly any animals.

00:42:03.000 I mean like kangaroos and wallabies and some weird shit.

00:42:07.000 But all the animals they have there have been introduced and they've made some big mistakes along the way.

00:42:14.000 Yeah.

00:42:14.000 And one of the big mistakes was they brought over foxes and they brought over cats.

00:42:19.000 And this is a huge mistake because they have wild cats everywhere.

00:42:24.000 Yeah.

00:42:25.000 Everywhere in Australia.

00:42:26.000 It's regular like house cats.

00:42:26.000 Regular like house cats except they're wild as fuck and they kill everything.

00:42:30.000 They decimate ground nesting birds.

00:42:33.000 Yeah.

00:42:33.000 The ground nesting birds just go extinct.

00:42:35.000 They have no chance.

00:42:37.000 And cats are fucking murderers.

00:42:39.000 We've talked about this on the podcast because we did this...

00:42:44.000 Read this study that was done recently on how many animals cats kill per year.

00:42:49.000 I have two cats.

00:42:50.000 I love cats.

00:42:51.000 They're awesome.

00:42:51.000 I've always had cats.

00:42:52.000 I've had cats my whole life.

00:42:53.000 I love cats.

00:42:54.000 It's not a slight against cats.

00:42:55.000 Yeah.

00:42:56.000 They kill billions.

00:42:58.000 Billions.

00:42:58.000 I mean, B.I. B.I. every year in America.

00:43:01.000 Just in the U.S. They're fucking murderers.

00:43:04.000 They kill mice and rodents and squirrels and birds.

00:43:09.000 They fucking kill everything.

00:43:11.000 So in Australian hunting magazines, these guys are holding up cats.

00:43:16.000 Yeah.

00:43:16.000 Like with smiles in their face.

00:43:18.000 Like they just shot a coyote or some, you know, murderous wildebeest thing.

00:43:23.000 Not a wildebeest.

00:43:25.000 Wildebeest wouldn't be murderous.

00:43:26.000 Some animal that you have to kill.

00:43:28.000 Yeah.

00:43:28.000 You know?

00:43:29.000 But they're holding up a fucking cat.

00:43:30.000 And you're like, what?

00:43:32.000 He gave me one of his magazines.

00:43:34.000 One of these Australian magazines.

00:43:35.000 Yeah, I'm like, this is Cat Killers Incorporated.

00:43:38.000 Look at the fuck what kind of magazine is this?

00:43:40.000 Bunch of guys smiling with pictures of cats.

00:43:42.000 Yeah.

00:43:43.000 But in their world, this is a necessary thing.

00:43:46.000 They have to kill these cats just to keep the population. 0.92

00:43:50.000 And they're still barely putting a dent in it.

00:43:52.000 Oh, yeah.

00:43:53.000 So the end of my story is, here comes this white stallion, 20 yards.

00:43:59.000 Perfect.

00:44:00.000 And couldn't shoot it.

00:44:02.000 Yeah.

00:44:03.000 Couldn't do it.

00:44:04.000 Fuck that.

00:44:05.000 Can't kill a horse.

00:44:06.000 Isn't that weird?

00:44:07.000 I haven't.

00:44:08.000 You know, zebras are fairly close to horses and appearance, you know, couldn't...

00:44:13.000 I've never hunted a zebra either.

00:44:15.000 I've been to Africa multiple times, and I don't know.

00:44:19.000 So anyway, it's just, you know, I'm not trying to judge anybody for doing it.

00:44:23.000 I'm just saying for me.

00:44:24.000 Rinella had a really good take on this whole Cecil the lion thing.

00:44:28.000 And one of the things that he was saying is like, as a hunter...

00:44:32.000 Who's Cecil?

00:44:33.000 That's that guy.

00:44:34.000 That dude.

00:44:35.000 His brother, he had a brother named Jericho.

00:44:39.000 But his take on it was that as a person who goes out and takes a life and does this in sort of a public manner, you have an obligation to consume that animal.

00:44:51.000 And so I was saying to him, well, if you go over to Africa, He's like, well, I've never been to Africa, and I don't have a desire to go to Africa, but if I did, and I shot a lion, I'd eat that lion.

00:45:00.000 I go, you would?

00:45:02.000 He goes, yeah, I'd eat that lion.

00:45:03.000 So he won't shoot anything unless he eats it.

00:45:06.000 And he's actually been on many grizzly hunts, but he won't hunt coastal grizzlies, because he doesn't want a grizzly that's been eating fish.

00:45:17.000 He wants an inland grizzly.

00:45:19.000 It would be a brown bear when it's coastal and an inland when it's a grizzly.

00:45:23.000 Right.

00:45:23.000 So he wants an animal that is, you know, most likely eating berries or whatever so he can actually eat it.

00:45:29.000 That's good.

00:45:30.000 That's a good way to look at it.

00:45:31.000 Yeah, I mean, he could still eat the coastal.

00:45:33.000 I don't, I mean...

00:45:34.000 Probably tastes like, holy hell.

00:45:36.000 I don't know.

00:45:36.000 I've eaten black bear that eat fish.

00:45:38.000 And they're okay?

00:45:39.000 You know, on Prince of Wales Island, those black bear eat salmon, just like a grizzly.

00:45:44.000 And does it taste any different than, like, an Alberta black bear?

00:45:47.000 Uh...

00:45:48.000 The Alberta black bear are really good because they're grain-fed.

00:45:51.000 Basically, it's like a grain-fed beef.

00:45:56.000 That's like a white-tailed deer that lives near a farm.

00:46:00.000 If you get white-tailed deer that live near a farm, they're eating Monsanto GMO corn.

00:46:08.000 Look, it's nature!

00:46:10.000 It's nature.

00:46:11.000 It's organic.

00:46:11.000 I guarantee that's good meat.

00:46:13.000 Yeah.

00:46:13.000 Oh, it's delicious.

00:46:15.000 Yeah.

00:46:15.000 But my buddy Doug, who's got a farm in Wisconsin, Doug Dern, shout out to my buddy Doug.

00:46:21.000 He has this amazing place in Wisconsin in the Driftless area.

00:46:25.000 You know where Cazenovia is?

00:46:27.000 I don't.

00:46:28.000 About 90 minutes or so outside of, what is the...

00:46:34.000 Madison, I guess.

00:46:35.000 Yeah, about 90 minutes outside of Madison.

00:46:37.000 Somewhere around there.

00:46:38.000 But just this stunning place.

00:46:40.000 Beautiful.

00:46:41.000 And anyway, these deer, they're essentially almost like farm animals.

00:46:45.000 And they live in conjunction with people.

00:46:48.000 Like, their numbers have never been higher.

00:46:51.000 And one of the reasons is that we have these enormous farm areas.

00:46:56.000 People who are not aware, if you look at the United States, if you look at the areas that are known for being agriculturally strong, like Kansas, Iowa, those are where all the bucks are.

00:47:07.000 That's where all the deer are.

00:47:09.000 If you go to those places- It's great habitat.

00:47:11.000 Yeah, I mean, they live healthy and happy because of these farms.

00:47:16.000 Yeah.

00:47:16.000 So they're almost farm animals in some weird way.

00:47:20.000 A little bit.

00:47:21.000 I mean, they're not fenced in, though.

00:47:23.000 Not fenced in.

00:47:24.000 And it's a lot of work.

00:47:25.000 They're tuned in, man.

00:47:26.000 Their fucking ears are going left and right.

00:47:28.000 They're looking for everybody.

00:47:29.000 They're keeping an eye on predators.

00:47:30.000 Whitetail are notoriously skittish, yeah. 0.99

00:47:33.000 They're tuned in.

00:47:34.000 They are very aware that they're desired.

00:47:36.000 Yeah.

00:47:37.000 That someone's trying to jack them.

00:47:38.000 They're just like...

00:47:39.000 And the really big ones, it's an interesting thing, they don't come out in the daytime a lot of times.

00:47:46.000 No.

00:47:46.000 Their only weakness is the rut when it's breeding season.

00:47:49.000 And so then that's when that's a chink in their armor. 1.00

00:47:52.000 So they want to breed.

00:47:53.000 They want to find that hot, that doe that's in heat.

00:47:55.000 Sounds like you.

00:47:56.000 In estrus.

00:47:57.000 Sounds like you too, Jamie.

00:47:59.000 I'm judging everybody.

00:48:00.000 Sounds like everybody but me.

00:48:02.000 Yeah, when you point at somebody, you know there's four fingers pointing back at you.

00:48:06.000 Not the way I point.

00:48:07.000 Or wait, three.

00:48:08.000 I point gangster style.

00:48:09.000 Oh.

00:48:09.000 Like this.

00:48:10.000 So all five are at me.

00:48:12.000 I point at Jamie and you.

00:48:13.000 That's how I'm pointing.

00:48:14.000 I'm pointing to the devil with my thumb, pointing to you with my finger, and my other fingers are going to Jamie.

00:48:19.000 Well, judge away.

00:48:21.000 That makes you feel better.

00:48:22.000 It does.

00:48:22.000 It's weird how it works that way.

00:48:24.000 It makes you feel way better.

00:48:25.000 I think I'm better than people.

00:48:26.000 That's good.

00:48:28.000 I just like to not look at my own faults at all.

00:48:31.000 Yeah.

00:48:31.000 And it just makes me feel super comfortable.

00:48:33.000 Right.

00:48:33.000 Well, all I focus on is my faults, so I'd like to try your approach.

00:48:38.000 Oh, you're so noble.

00:48:39.000 So noble.

00:48:40.000 It seems like a lot of work.

00:48:43.000 But these areas in our country that are primarily agriculture areas that have these massive deer populations, that is the number one most hunted animal in North America is whitetail deer.

00:48:57.000 Most desired animal in America.

00:48:59.000 It's interesting how, like mule deer, which are also spectacular animals, but...

00:49:06.000 Conversely are almost totally wild.

00:49:09.000 Yeah, these are mountain animals and they'll occasionally go into fields and stuff too and near farms for sure but you're finding a lot of these animals like they're just totally completely wild and For some people those animals because of the fact they're wild become like a more desirable animal It's like The mountains are I don't want to say Romanticize,

00:49:34.000 but people look at the mountains differently, it seems like.

00:49:37.000 You know, just being in the mountains is powerful in itself.

00:49:40.000 So when you're hunting an animal that is a mountain monarch, so to speak, a big bull elk, sheep, a very noble animal that lives exclusively in the mountains, and a mountain mule deer.

00:49:52.000 And bow hunters know, especially, you know, I don't want to say, I was going to say western bow hunters know, but any bow hunter knows that tries to go after mule deer in the mountains.

00:50:00.000 That's about...

00:50:02.000 As tough of a bow hunt as you're going to get.

00:50:04.000 I mean, because elk, for me, I've killed most of my bulls spot and stalk, not calling them in.

00:50:12.000 And to stalk an elk is Pretty easy, just compared to a mule deer.

00:50:18.000 Not easy in general, just, you know, not like easy is going to the store and buying a pop, but easy...

00:50:24.000 Easy to get close to them.

00:50:25.000 Yeah, compared to mule deer because they make noise themselves, so they're big animals, 800 pounds, kicking rocks, breaking branches, so they're making noises, so you can get away with some noise.

00:50:37.000 If a mule deer...

00:50:39.000 It's laying up in its bed on top of a rim rock.

00:50:42.000 All it is is laying there.

00:50:44.000 Its back is protected because it's backed up against a rock wall.

00:50:47.000 And it's looking down.

00:50:49.000 The wind's coming up so it can smell everything that's below them.

00:50:52.000 Nothing you can get at them from behind them.

00:50:54.000 And there with their big ears, you know, that's why they got the name mule deer.

00:50:58.000 Their big ears are there just listening.

00:51:01.000 All they're doing is observing, smelling the wind, and listening.

00:51:05.000 Very, very hard to get in bow range of.

00:51:08.000 Yeah, it's a weird animal, man.

00:51:10.000 It's interesting how they move, too.

00:51:13.000 They bounce.

00:51:15.000 You know, like a lot of animals are running.

00:51:17.000 Like deer, like white-tailed deer, mostly kind of run.

00:51:21.000 But mule deer are literally bouncing up in the air like some sort of a cartoon rabbit.

00:51:27.000 Yeah.

00:51:28.000 I don't know.

00:51:29.000 I guess I've never even, you know, obviously I know that because I've seen it.

00:51:32.000 I've spooked plenty of mule deer.

00:51:35.000 But I don't know if it's to get up and to have a better view of what might have spooked them or what danger might be there to be high.

00:51:44.000 I don't know.

00:51:45.000 It'd be interesting to find out why there's any theories on why they do that.

00:51:49.000 It kind of makes sense if they live in fields, which a lot of them do.

00:51:52.000 There goes one.

00:51:53.000 Boing! 0.99

00:51:53.000 Look at him go. 0.99

00:51:54.000 Boing! 0.99

00:51:55.000 Boing! 0.99

00:51:56.000 Boing! 0.99

00:51:56.000 What a weird animal. 0.99

00:51:58.000 That's fucking weird.

00:51:59.000 It's weird how they do that.

00:52:01.000 They do this very strange...

00:52:02.000 Look at the size of his ears.

00:52:04.000 Yep.

00:52:04.000 If you've never seen a mule deer before, folks, they have ears that are just enormous.

00:52:09.000 Yeah.

00:52:09.000 And he's bouncing.

00:52:10.000 And they're huge.

00:52:13.000 Yeah, and that's actually so an Achilles heel of a mule deer is those ears if it's windy.

00:52:20.000 Because all the hair in their ears.

00:52:22.000 So if the wind is really blowing and the grass where they're bedded is blowing around or even the wind is blowing the hair in their ears around, they can't hear.

00:52:30.000 So if it's windy, you can get close to them.

00:52:34.000 If it's dead calm, it's not going to be easy.

00:52:38.000 But if it's windy, that's one way.

00:52:41.000 If I'm bow hunting...

00:52:43.000 And if I have the wind right and it's, you know, gusting, I feel pretty good.

00:52:48.000 I feel pretty good.

00:52:48.000 I can get in.

00:52:49.000 It is interesting, too, that these animals that are more difficult to get to, and this is one thing that is contrary to the way a lot of people think about hunting.

00:52:59.000 At least at the highest level the the animals that are the most difficult to get to and the hunts that are most difficult are the most prized and it's one of the reasons why people like you gravitate towards bow hunting because bow hunting is far more difficult than rifle hunting and then the animals that are the most difficult to bow hunt become the most prized like for a lot of people like wild desert bighorn sheep,

00:53:24.000 you know stone sheep.

00:53:26.000 Dull sheep.

00:53:26.000 When you have to go to these really crazy places that is really high up in the mountains, very difficult to get here in the first place.

00:53:33.000 And then, good luck sneaking up on them.

00:53:36.000 You're wide out in the open on this gigantic mountain with all this shale and rocks and...

00:53:42.000 I mean, those are the animals that people prize in some strange way that these hunters, like, the difficulty of the hunt, the tougher it is to camp out there, the difficulty in the conditions, the tougher those conditions are, the more people sort of,

00:53:59.000 like, praise those kind of experiences.

00:54:02.000 It's the challenge.

00:54:03.000 It's why we bow hunt, and that's just a...

00:54:07.000 That's just a prime example of the greatest challenge there is, you know, in the mountains in those tough conditions with a bow.

00:54:15.000 It's as hard as it gets.

00:54:17.000 So we bow hunt because we like challenge and we put those animals on pedestals because they're the ultimate challenge.

00:54:24.000 Yeah, and it's, for people that don't hunt, they don't, they probably are not, not only are not aware of this, but it might not even make that much sense that this is one of the reasons why those animals are so, like, people say, oh, you know, it doesn't, like, how many times have I read this?

00:54:40.000 It doesn't take any skill, you know, what you're doing is horrible and terrible.

00:54:43.000 It's one of the most difficult things you could do in the world.

00:54:47.000 If you want to try to feed yourself with a bow and an arrow, a stick and a string, you want to try to feed yourself with that?

00:54:52.000 Yeah.

00:54:53.000 Good luck.

00:54:53.000 Yeah, the people who say there's no skill involved in bow hunting haven't done it.

00:54:58.000 They definitely haven't, but it's also an inconsiderate, convenient way of dismissing something that they don't agree with because of their ideology.

00:55:11.000 And with a lot of the people, there's these people that eat meat, which is really weird.

00:55:15.000 It's like you're eating meat and you're dismissing someone who's doing one of the most difficult things in the world with meat.

00:55:23.000 Yeah, well, I guarantee, you know, I know there's people out there who don't hunt who respect animals.

00:55:30.000 You know, I get that.

00:55:32.000 Those people could never have the same amount of respect, I don't think, as a hunter who knows what it takes to survive up there, what it takes to outwit the animal up there, what it takes to be successful, and to get the meat off the mountain after you've harvested one.

00:55:47.000 The amount of respect that whole process builds in a hunter, there's no way somebody who hasn't done it could appreciate or match.

00:55:56.000 I don't know whether or not they could appreciate it as much I just don't think they understand the experience I don't think they understand the beauty that some people find in that experience because I think in their eyes if you take life This is a negative thing and a terrible thing.

00:56:16.000 But the way I always kind of look at it, there's a storm going on out there, okay?

00:56:23.000 Close your door, watch Game of Thrones, sit in your air-conditioned apartment, drink your soda, and like, oh, life is beautiful.

00:56:29.000 I don't know why anybody would go out there and kill an animal.

00:56:31.000 There's a storm of animals killing animals out there.

00:56:36.000 It's happening right now.

00:56:37.000 It's real life.

00:56:37.000 While we're sitting in this beautiful air-conditioned studio here in lovely Woodland Hills, California.

00:56:42.000 There is a fucking storm where coyotes are killing deer and bears are killing each other.

00:56:49.000 And that fucking picture that we posted that you showed me that I said I was going to post later today of that polar bear carrying around that cub's head.

00:56:57.000 Yeah.

00:56:57.000 Fuck man.

00:56:58.000 That's real life.

00:56:59.000 That's going on right now.

00:57:00.000 And all you're doing as a hunter is you're choosing to not go the factory farm route and to make this experience of gathering your food a massive challenge and an incredibly rewarding experience.

00:57:14.000 And you connect yourself to the wild in some really bizarre way that I never understood in Until I started doing it.

00:57:24.000 I always thought, well, this is probably the better way to get meat.

00:57:28.000 But once I started doing it...

00:57:30.000 This logically, you thought it made sense, right?

00:57:33.000 Exactly.

00:57:33.000 But I had no real connection.

00:57:35.000 No, but when you get that spiritual connection with the animals, the country, the challenge...

00:57:42.000 Your own human spirit and what it takes.

00:57:46.000 That's where the powerful, how powerful hunting is really is driven home.

00:57:51.000 Well, it's just, it's kind of psychedelic in a way.

00:57:56.000 And people have gotten mad at me because I've said this.

00:57:58.000 And this is what I mean by psychedelic.

00:58:00.000 I mean, even hunting an animal and looking in its eyes is psychedelic in some sort of a weird way.

00:58:06.000 Because it's paradigm shifting and it sort of changes your view.

00:58:14.000 It takes you out of...

00:58:15.000 It's a perspective shifting thing.

00:58:18.000 Because when you're actually in this animal's environment, you're in this really quiet forest, and you're sneaking up on this animal, and you're pursuing it, and you're hunting it, and you lock eyes with this thing.

00:58:32.000 In this animal's world, this animal doesn't know anything about culture.

00:58:36.000 It doesn't know anything about your traditions, or your rules, or your ideas, or your ethics, or what you think should and shouldn't be done.

00:58:45.000 This thing is just trying to survive. 0.63

00:58:48.000 That's it.

00:58:49.000 In some very strange way where it is, not only is it trying to survive, it's trying to keep other things from doing what it wants to do.

00:58:56.000 Like, it wants to stab these other deer with its antlers so that they can't fuck the girls that it wants to fuck. 1.00

00:59:03.000 It wants to pass on its genes in some incredibly primitive competition.

00:59:11.000 We're good to go.

00:59:29.000 And breeding.

00:59:30.000 It's some sort of a nature mathematics thing that's going on.

00:59:34.000 And this world is this savage, primal, crazy world.

00:59:41.000 And what you're doing as a hunter is entering into that world.

00:59:44.000 Yeah.

00:59:45.000 Now, what people who don't hunt don't seem to understand is that the people that do hunt are responsible directly for the population increase of all these animals.

00:59:57.000 And it's very contradictory in a lot of ways.

00:59:59.000 The people that don't like hunting but love animals don't understand that the numbers are where they are now Directly because of people contributing to wildlife preservation, to habitat preservation, and to making sure that wildlife biologists manage these areas properly.

01:00:18.000 Right.

01:00:19.000 And that's a hard pill to swallow for people who love animals, but the people who are spending the most amount of money to keep these animals healthy want to go kill them and eat them.

01:00:30.000 Yeah.

01:00:31.000 It's...

01:00:32.000 It's like many things in life.

01:00:33.000 It doesn't necessarily add up the way you would like it to.

01:00:36.000 It seems contradictory, but hunters are why there's more—we looked this up last time—more deer, elk, bear, turkey numbers than there ever has been in North America.

01:00:46.000 I think elk doesn't occupy as much area as it used to be, but that was because— The assholes who were around in the 1800s who came along first, or the 16, 17, and 1800s, they just shot the shit out of them.

01:01:01.000 And they were doing it for meat to stay alive.

01:01:03.000 A lot of it was also Dan Flores, who was on Ronella's podcast, if you haven't listened to that, the Meat Eater podcast, listen to this one because it's sensational.

01:01:13.000 He's a wildlife historian and he talks about the history of wildlife in North America.

01:01:18.000 And the same guys that killed off massive amounts of buffalo in this country and almost made them extinct, they did the same thing with pronghorns.

01:01:27.000 They did the same thing with elk.

01:01:28.000 These were guys who came back from the wars and they just had no skills other than killing things. 1.00

01:01:36.000 And this is a way to make money for the market.

01:01:39.000 So they would go out and just slaughter, wholesale slaughter of these animals.

01:01:43.000 And when they ran out of buffalo, they turned to the antelope.

01:01:46.000 Yeah.

01:01:53.000 Yeah.

01:01:59.000 Yeah.

01:02:11.000 And it's true. 0.56

01:02:13.000 You know, hunters are out there doing the work, paying the money.

01:02:17.000 Yeah, we're killing animals, but it's to the benefit of the animals also.

01:02:21.000 Well, Ben O'Brien has an interesting take on that.

01:02:23.000 Our friend Ben O'Brien, who used to work at Peterson's and now works at Yeti Coolers, he says...

01:02:30.000 Conservation is something that comes along.

01:02:33.000 Byproduct.

01:02:34.000 It's a byproduct of it.

01:02:35.000 But really, it's about hunting.

01:02:38.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:02:38.000 And I think that's the honest answer.

01:02:40.000 Oh, no.

01:02:41.000 When I'm out there hunting, I'm not thinking, I need to be the best conservationist I can.

01:02:46.000 I mean, no.

01:02:46.000 Right.

01:02:47.000 I'm out there...

01:02:48.000 To be successful.

01:02:49.000 But that mantra gets kind of, it's an argument mantra.

01:02:53.000 Yeah.

01:02:53.000 It's like people that are hunting are dealing with so much pressure from people that are angry about hunting.

01:02:59.000 Right.

01:02:59.000 And then this is a different world, too, because you were saying when you grew up that hunters were thought of as like, wow, this guy provides for his family.

01:03:07.000 He goes out and does this incredibly difficult thing.

01:03:09.000 It's very noble.

01:03:10.000 Hunters were looked at with respect.

01:03:12.000 I mean, you looked up to a hunter.

01:03:14.000 You're like, you know, if somebody was successful, did you get your elk this year?

01:03:18.000 Yeah.

01:03:18.000 Oh, man.

01:03:19.000 You know, that guy, he's a stud.

01:03:21.000 It's tough to do.

01:03:22.000 Tough to do.

01:03:22.000 He went out and did it.

01:03:23.000 You know, so hunters were put on a pedestal in the town I grew up in and where I lived.

01:03:28.000 And it was, there was something, you know, you had pride that you hunted.

01:03:32.000 Well, this is what I think is good about all this controversy.

01:03:35.000 When you were doing this, when you were young, there was no social media, and so you weren't engaging with people that thought in a contrary way, that thought different, that were upset by your actions, and they weren't engaging with you either.

01:03:49.000 Right.

01:03:50.000 They looked at hunters like Elmer Fudd.

01:03:52.000 You know, they looked at him like some guy, hunters in a movie are always this drunk guy who's like out there shooting at anything that moves.

01:03:58.000 The bad guy.

01:03:59.000 Always a bad guy.

01:04:00.000 Always a bad guy.

01:04:01.000 And that was their perception, and your perception was based on your environment, where you're in, you know, this area that's pretty rural.

01:04:10.000 There's a lot of wildlife, a lot of hunters, and it's a super normal part of the environment, the culture.

01:04:17.000 So these people that are urban, that are just conditioned to thinking of animals as being pets that you love, and food as being something that you get from a grocery store.

01:04:27.000 Even the people that buy meat, they're not involved in any way, shape, or form in the killing of that meat, so they're completely disconnected from it.

01:04:35.000 So this, even though there's like this craziness going on where these animal rights people are saying, I hope your mother gets raped and killed and murdered and gutted in front of your children, and all this crazy shit that I've seen.

01:04:46.000 These angry, angry people that think of...

01:04:49.000 Well, I don't know if...

01:04:51.000 There's a lot going on.

01:04:52.000 I don't know if they're actually angry in as much...

01:04:56.000 In a logical progression where it makes sense, or if it's just they feel like they have the right to go after you because you're killing things.

01:05:06.000 And they're really just fucking imbalanced.

01:05:08.000 Yeah.

01:05:09.000 There's a lot of that.

01:05:10.000 And there's a lot of imbalanced people that do really good things because it allows them to be really aggressive. 1.00

01:05:16.000 In their negative behavior.

01:05:20.000 There's some people that love to be negative and they love to be aggressive and they love to be shitty and insulting and hostile.

01:05:28.000 And the way to ensure that that behavior is not just accepted but actually rewarded is to be negative and hostile and even violent for a good cause.

01:05:38.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:05:39.000 And so they're masking their really psychotic, fucked up behavior.

01:05:43.000 Yeah.

01:05:44.000 It's one of the things that people say being an animal rights person or being a vegan is about compassion.

01:05:50.000 Except when you're talking to people that don't agree with you.

01:05:53.000 And then you're allowed to get fucking super hostile and super negative and violent and self-righteous.

01:05:59.000 Call us murderers and say we deserve to die and they'd like to kill us.

01:06:03.000 So they're tolerant until, you know, there's a cause.

01:06:06.000 A cause that, you know...

01:06:09.000 You have to actually think to justify, and you have to actually look at the big picture.

01:06:13.000 But when it's easy and say, oh, you hunt, you're a murderer, I wish you were dead.

01:06:19.000 That's easy.

01:06:19.000 Yeah, well, I understand it.

01:06:22.000 I understand it.

01:06:24.000 I understand where they're coming from, and I understand their perspective as someone who actually does love animals.

01:06:28.000 I understand that this contradiction is very difficult to deal with, and that's one of the things that I think is important about this This new age of interaction is that some people are kind of getting the understanding.

01:06:40.000 They're getting the message like, okay, I thought that this thing was about these people that hated animals that went out and shot them and killed them, but now I'm seeing that this thing also has a lot of different layers to it, and there's a broad range of these people.

01:06:55.000 And the noble ones are actually doing not just a service to the wildlife, they're stewards of the wildlife and stewards of the land.

01:07:05.000 And they're also getting their food, they're getting the healthiest food that a person can eat from the wild.

01:07:14.000 This idea that you can somehow or another have no harm and do no harm to animals.

01:07:21.000 Well, that's not true.

01:07:22.000 You can't do no harm.

01:07:23.000 We say, well, you can do less harm.

01:07:25.000 Depends on what you think less harm means.

01:07:27.000 Because if you're talking about bugs or bugs life, if you're talking about rodents, if you're talking about things that get chewed up when they process grain, you're not...

01:07:38.000 Animals are dying.

01:07:38.000 And if you procreate, boy, that's a fucking ball of wax right there.

01:07:43.000 That's a bag of worms or whatever it is.

01:07:45.000 What is the expression?

01:07:46.000 Bag of worms?

01:07:47.000 Bag of wax.

01:07:49.000 Bag of wax.

01:07:50.000 If you procreate, boy, you are creating a beautiful little baby human being that is going to consume It's gonna cause waste.

01:08:01.000 It's going to burn fossil fuels into the atmosphere. 0.98

01:08:05.000 It's gonna promote global warming. 0.75

01:08:07.000 It's going to have plastic that most likely will wash up into the ocean.

01:08:12.000 It's gonna be a consumer of all these things.

01:08:14.000 And there's no way around that.

01:08:17.000 So if you love people like I do, I fucking love people.

01:08:20.000 People are destroyers.

01:08:23.000 Yeah.

01:08:23.000 Just like, you know, just like bears eat cubs.

01:08:26.000 People make a certain amount of waste.

01:08:29.000 Yeah.

01:08:29.000 And hopefully...

01:08:34.000 Mm-hmm.

01:08:49.000 There'd be some way to do that.

01:08:51.000 I know that scientists are actually trying to come up with feasible methods of taking places that are just like really polluted and actually using that pollutant or those pollutants and turning it into some sort of a product that we can use.

01:09:04.000 They're smarter than me.

01:09:05.000 I know that.

01:09:06.000 And me too.

01:09:07.000 But I'm hopeful.

01:09:09.000 But what I'm saying is that we're all in some way responsible for some sort of an impact on the world that we live in.

01:09:19.000 And just like dogs shit on the ground.

01:09:21.000 Yeah.

01:09:22.000 And, you know, cats kill every fucking thing they get a chance to.

01:09:25.000 That's their design.

01:09:26.000 That's what they're supposed to do.

01:09:27.000 Well, there's nothing more eco-friendly than a hunter.

01:09:29.000 I can tell you that.

01:09:30.000 You know, if you're talking about helping the environment...

01:09:34.000 Getting out there, killing yourself, processing it, bringing it home, that's about as good as it gets as far as eco-friendly.

01:09:45.000 And I think we're getting that message out there on the positive attributes of hunting.

01:09:49.000 I mean, we've talked about this a number of times.

01:09:51.000 You've talked about it with other guests a number of times.

01:09:53.000 And I still see a lot of hate, anger, not misunderstanding, but they don't want to understand, it doesn't feel like.

01:10:01.000 But on the other side, I get messages from a lot of people who are saying, I've never thought about hunting that way.

01:10:09.000 I'm interested in providing for myself.

01:10:11.000 I want to be self-sufficient.

01:10:13.000 I'm trying, I'm getting a bow.

01:10:15.000 So, I mean, we're doing good things also.

01:10:18.000 I mean, I know we talk about the negative a lot and we focus on that.

01:10:21.000 I mean, if you look at my social media stuff, I do notice the negatives.

01:10:29.000 Probably too much.

01:10:30.000 So, I mean, I know we talk about that, but man, there's a lot of positive out there too.

01:10:33.000 There's way more positive than there is negative now.

01:10:36.000 But, you know, it's all what you focus on.

01:10:38.000 If you decided to focus on the negative, there'd be way more negative.

01:10:41.000 Yeah.

01:10:41.000 I mean, you could definitely find it.

01:10:42.000 Yeah.

01:10:44.000 Put hashtag vegan on all your posts and watch what happens.

01:10:47.000 That's what you do.

01:10:49.000 I only did it once.

01:10:50.000 Oh my god, I get so upset.

01:10:52.000 It was over a joke.

01:10:54.000 It was a joke, but it had meat in it.

01:10:56.000 Yeah.

01:10:57.000 Can't handle jokes.

01:10:58.000 No.

01:10:59.000 But I think that just these conversations, they're important.

01:11:04.000 It's also important for people that are enchanted by maybe a more radical animal activist perspective.

01:11:15.000 And, you know, it seems to make sense, but sometimes that needs to be balanced out and you need to consider both sides.

01:11:22.000 And I think the hunting side is not represented enough in an intelligent way where it balances out some of the more radical and also proselytizing.

01:11:34.000 Like, they're trying to convert people into their world in a lot of ways.

01:11:38.000 Like, a lot of people that are animal rights people or vegan people are really actively trying to get people to do what they do.

01:11:44.000 And get super upset when people find it unhealthy or no longer do it.

01:11:49.000 Yeah.

01:11:49.000 Meanwhile, 95% of the world consumes meat.

01:11:54.000 Yeah.

01:11:54.000 95%.

01:11:55.000 But when people go back, and that used to be vegan, they say, fucking my whole body's falling apart, my hair's falling My skin is turning dry.

01:12:02.000 I have no energy.

01:12:02.000 And this is really common.

01:12:04.000 People say, well, it's because you're doing it wrong.

01:12:05.000 Not necessarily.

01:12:07.000 There's a lot of aspects.

01:12:08.000 I'm not saying you should or shouldn't do it, but there's a lot of aspects that if you talk to an actual scientist, real nutritionists, people who are experts in human biology and the direct mechanisms of absorbing nutrients, there's some real issues with plant versions of many different things,

01:12:25.000 including vitamin B12, A bunch of different fatty acids that although they are active in some plants and seeds and oils, which are probably good for you, they're actually not nearly as bioavailable as fatty fish and DHEA and a lot of different essential fatty acids,

01:12:44.000 omegas, threes and sixes and all these different things.

01:12:46.000 They're more biologically available to human beings in animal form.

01:12:53.000 And this is just science.

01:12:54.000 Forget about the idea that you shouldn't do it.

01:12:58.000 Let's talk about what is good for the human body itself.

01:13:01.000 Boy, it's fucking hard to get the same stuff from plants.

01:13:05.000 And if it's important to you and you want to do it, you can do it.

01:13:08.000 You can.

01:13:08.000 But my driver yesterday, he switched and was a vegan.

01:13:14.000 He's a vegan now.

01:13:15.000 And so he's telling me that actually since he started with his veganism, he eats way less healthy.

01:13:24.000 Because while he's not eating meat, he's eating potato chips and he's eating all these carbs and all these empty carbs.

01:13:31.000 And it's just like, yeah, so I'm not eating meat, but man, I feel terrible.

01:13:36.000 And I'm eating awful Doritos.

01:13:38.000 Yeah, there's no meat in Doritos, but...

01:13:41.000 Not that great for you.

01:13:42.000 Well, Sam Harris, who was on our podcast recently, he recently converted to being a vegan as well because of the honest concerns with factory farming and things along those lines.

01:13:54.000 And his blood lipids are all fucked up.

01:13:56.000 He's like, I gotta figure this out.

01:13:57.000 Yeah.

01:13:58.000 You know, you're eating carbs all the time.

01:14:00.000 Your insulin spikes, your blood sugar level spikes.

01:14:03.000 It's just not necessarily healthy.

01:14:06.000 You have to approach it the right way.

01:14:09.000 You've got to eat a lot of healthy, fatty things, like almond butter is really important, and nuts, macadamia nuts.

01:14:15.000 You've got to find a way to get oils and fats from your foods.

01:14:20.000 And also, the way that affects brain function.

01:14:23.000 It's really important that you have a certain amount of omegas to really have your fucking brain conduct properly.

01:14:29.000 It's like having good spark plugs in your fucking car.

01:14:33.000 Well, I eat a lot of meat, and I feel pretty healthy.

01:14:37.000 But it's also, there's a debate where, you know, you say, well, someone who is a vegan does less harm.

01:14:44.000 And there's definitely an argument for that if you accept a hierarchy of life.

01:14:51.000 And this is where it gets tricky.

01:14:53.000 Because what they're saying is that you should not think that a human being's life is more important than an animal's life.

01:14:59.000 Because that's speciesism.

01:15:01.000 Have you heard that?

01:15:02.000 This is new.

01:15:03.000 Well, I saw Kat Von D put up a little thing on her Instagram. 0.84

01:15:07.000 It had, like, man at the top of the food chain, basically, and that was labeled as ego.

01:15:17.000 And then it had man mixed in with all the other animals, and that was eco.

01:15:22.000 That's interesting.

01:15:23.000 Well, eco is man mixed in with all the other animals if you eat them.

01:15:27.000 If you consume them the way they consume each other.

01:15:30.000 I'm not saying it's egotistical, but I'm saying man is the top of the food chain.

01:15:35.000 Well, yeah.

01:15:37.000 Duh.

01:15:39.000 I'm not hiding that fact.

01:15:40.000 I don't feel bad about that.

01:15:41.000 I'm a big fan of people.

01:15:43.000 But also, Kat Von D needs to consider, and I love Kat, her tattoos are most likely not vegan.

01:15:50.000 Ink is made with animal products.

01:15:52.000 Yeah.

01:15:52.000 Yeah, I mean, that's a part of tattoo ink.

01:15:54.000 I mean, they do have some vegan inks now, but the idea that all those tattoos that she has are all vegan seem ridiculous.

01:16:04.000 Right.

01:16:04.000 Yeah.

01:16:05.000 I don't know what's better.

01:16:06.000 Is vegan ink as good?

01:16:08.000 I wonder if it's less good.

01:16:10.000 I don't know.

01:16:10.000 I wonder if it's like vegan chicken.

01:16:12.000 I'm going to start protesting it.

01:16:13.000 Processed.

01:16:14.000 Yeah.

01:16:15.000 But my point is, accepting the hierarchy of life, because if you buy commercial grain, you're directly responsible for an industry that kills a lot of beings.

01:16:28.000 Now, are the pesticides, unless you buy everything organic from a fucking hand-picked farm, and you absolutely know that no one had any, absolutely no pesticides were done, no one had anything that they put into the ground that's dangerous to any of the life...

01:16:43.000 That's not likely.

01:16:44.000 The likely case is that if you're buying pasta, or if you're buying rice, or if you're buying any of these things, you're buying these things from some sort of a farm that displaces wildlife, kills massive amounts of rodents and bugs and all these different things,

01:17:01.000 and is a bug worth as much as the life of an elk?

01:17:06.000 We need to make this discussion.

01:17:08.000 This is an important distinction.

01:17:09.000 Is a mouse worth as much as a white-tailed deer?

01:17:14.000 I don't know if it is, but I know that millions of rodents are killed in this country every year with green combines. 0.88

01:17:22.000 And with that illustration where all the animals are mixed in with the man, I guess everybody's equal, right?

01:17:27.000 So why would it be okay to have wheat harvested Buzzards flying all around that field because of all the carnage down below and they're scavengers.

01:17:36.000 So all the rodents, all the rabbits, all the pheasants, even whitetail fawn maybe.

01:17:44.000 All the animals that are killed down there, they're coming down to eat those.

01:17:47.000 So in the harvest of that wheat bread, or the wheat for the bread, all these animals died.

01:17:52.000 Well, if everything's equal, why is that okay but hunting isn't?

01:17:57.000 It doesn't make any sense.

01:17:58.000 No.

01:17:59.000 But it's a convenient way of looking at things.

01:18:02.000 And it's also like bug spray.

01:18:04.000 I used to live near an ashram in Boulder, and the fucking lady who ran the ashram was poisoning ants. 1.00

01:18:12.000 And I go, hey, what are you doing?

01:18:14.000 And she was using ant poison. 1.00

01:18:16.000 She's like, well, we do what we have to sometimes when we have ants.

01:18:19.000 I go, you're a vegetarian, she's a vegan, and you don't believe in killing life unless there's these cunty bugs that try to invade your camp, and then you kill them in mass with toxic chemicals you spray from the sky in these canisters of death.

01:18:39.000 I mean, what a weird...

01:18:41.000 Sort of a game you're playing in your head about life and death.

01:18:46.000 And is an insect's life worth less than a mammal's life?

01:18:50.000 Well, why is that?

01:18:51.000 Well, because an insect is not as much aware.

01:18:54.000 You ever try to swat a fly?

01:18:55.000 Yeah.

01:18:55.000 There's a reason why they get the fuck out of the way.

01:18:57.000 They don't want to die.

01:18:58.000 They know.

01:18:58.000 Okay?

01:18:59.000 But is an insect's life worth less than a mouse?

01:19:03.000 Some people would say yes.

01:19:04.000 Okay.

01:19:05.000 Why is that?

01:19:05.000 Well, a mouse has emotions.

01:19:08.000 Okay, okay.

01:19:09.000 Alright, well, then we're accepting a hierarchy.

01:19:12.000 Well, these animals that can't communicate, they're not as good as people, okay?

01:19:15.000 So we're going to eat them.

01:19:16.000 Yeah.

01:19:16.000 Because it makes you healthier.

01:19:18.000 I mean, is that, are we accepting this?

01:19:20.000 No, we're not.

01:19:21.000 Well, then you've got to stop eating grain, man, because you're a part of wholesale slaughter.

01:19:26.000 You have to.

01:19:27.000 Well, I think it goes back to, there's a lot of hypocritical people out there.

01:19:31.000 But they're proselytizing.

01:19:33.000 This is where it gets really weird.

01:19:34.000 I was watching this guy give this argument about how human beings are not designed to eat meat.

01:19:39.000 That's why we can't kill an animal with our hands and our teeth, and we have to cook it in order to process it.

01:19:45.000 That's the only way our body consumes it.

01:19:47.000 Well, guess what, fuckface? 0.97

01:19:48.000 Try eating wheat.

01:19:50.000 Try pulling rice out of the ground and eating that.

01:19:52.000 We process everything, man.

01:19:54.000 We process wheat, we process rice, we process many grains and beans.

01:19:59.000 We process a lot of shit because we're smart.

01:20:02.000 We figured out how to use tools a long time ago.

01:20:05.000 That's our advantage.

01:20:05.000 Yeah, we figured out how to burn things.

01:20:06.000 It makes them more compatible.

01:20:07.000 And your body adjusted to the fact that you were cooking off the bacteria in these things all the time.

01:20:11.000 Your gut flora changes.

01:20:13.000 There's a whole process going on, man.

01:20:15.000 There's a whole evolutionary process involving tools and fire.

01:20:19.000 And that's why we have cities.

01:20:20.000 And that's why you have a fucking YouTube account where you can make these ridiculous claims in the first place.

01:20:25.000 It's all designed by people overcoming the wild environment.

01:20:28.000 Because I don't know if you checked, but we're fleshy little water balloons of blood.

01:20:33.000 That's what we are.

01:20:34.000 We're really vulnerable without all these tools and all these houses and all these fucking people that figured out fire and metal and all this shit long before you were alive.

01:20:44.000 The reason why you're alive today is because really ingenious, inventive, industrious people figured out how to survive in a world where we're weak as shit.

01:20:54.000 We're weak and vulnerable.

01:20:56.000 And animals come in and just are jacking things left and right, and we're out there with our little baby in this world.

01:21:03.000 Did you hear about the fucking 15-year-old kid that got pulled out of a fucking tent by a hyena by his face?

01:21:09.000 Yeah.

01:21:09.000 He got yanked out of a fucking tent by his face.

01:21:12.000 Oh, we're gonna go on a happy camping trip.

01:21:14.000 This kid is just hanging out in the natural world.

01:21:18.000 Yeah.

01:21:18.000 I love animals.

01:21:19.000 They love you too, you fuck.

01:21:21.000 They love to eat you.

01:21:22.000 Look at this.

01:21:23.000 Boy 15 had his face chewed by a hyena as he slept in a tent next to his parents in the Kruger National Park.

01:21:31.000 Yeah, that's the real deal there.

01:21:33.000 His bones were crushed like a packet of crisps.

01:21:36.000 Yeah.

01:21:37.000 Oh my god.

01:21:39.000 Yeah.

01:21:40.000 Oh my god.

01:21:41.000 Hyenas are brutal. 1.00

01:21:44.000 Dean was conscious throughout the attack and now undergoing surgery.

01:21:49.000 He didn't die, huh?

01:21:50.000 Only saved when his uncle heard him being dragged like a blanket.

01:21:54.000 Hyena was looking for food and had been seen in the week before the attack.

01:21:59.000 If you've ever seen a hyena, those things are, I mean, they're killers.

01:22:04.000 Well, that's why they're there.

01:22:06.000 That's why they're there.

01:22:07.000 Nature has its very efficient system.

01:22:09.000 All they do is kill, and they don't care what it is, they're killing it.

01:22:12.000 Well, Africa in particular is so fascinating to me.

01:22:16.000 I was going to go on vacation there with my family this year, but I found out we'd have to get a bunch of shots.

01:22:20.000 Yeah.

01:22:21.000 When you went to Tanzania, did you get a bunch of shots?

01:22:22.000 Yeah.

01:22:23.000 Fuck all that.

01:22:24.000 I'm not giving my six-year-old some crazy shots.

01:22:26.000 Well...

01:22:26.000 So they can endure Zika.

01:22:29.000 Malaria.

01:22:30.000 Malaria.

01:22:31.000 Yeah.

01:22:31.000 That's a big one.

01:22:32.000 How much did you have to...

01:22:33.000 What kind of shots did you have to get?

01:22:34.000 I don't know.

01:22:35.000 I got, like, I think four different shots.

01:22:37.000 Yeah.

01:22:39.000 But, you know, when I was in camp there, there was one of the workers there had malaria.

01:22:43.000 It's not what you want to get.

01:22:46.000 What was it like?

01:22:48.000 He's just weak and, you know, sick.

01:22:51.000 Like giving him antibiotics?

01:22:52.000 I don't know what they're doing.

01:22:54.000 Yeah, I wonder if they even have antibiotics in a lot of places, right?

01:22:58.000 I don't know.

01:22:59.000 I mean, it's a lot different than here.

01:23:01.000 But it's a brutal place.

01:23:04.000 Well, life is brutal in this weird cycle.

01:23:07.000 We are so soft here.

01:23:09.000 I mean, I just think we're getting weaker and weaker.

01:23:14.000 But yeah, over there, if you're weak, You're gone.

01:23:19.000 Well, everywhere where it's hard, when things get rough, when things are not rough, that's when people can relax.

01:23:25.000 And that's one of the beautiful things about cities.

01:23:27.000 Yeah.

01:23:27.000 That we figured out a way to put up these concrete structures that nothing can get in, no wild things can get in.

01:23:33.000 You can take a break, relax, and eat chips, get fat.

01:23:36.000 And I hate it here.

01:23:38.000 I like it.

01:23:38.000 I like it in the mountains where I am vulnerable, where Hopefully my training and my experience and whatever keeps me alive.

01:23:48.000 But also, there's a weird sort of electric feeling to that world.

01:23:53.000 I want to say electric, but it's like a stimulating feeling to that world.

01:23:58.000 When you're walking around in that world and you're acutely aware that you are now part of this system.

01:24:04.000 And that you could turn the wrong corner and run into a fucking grizzly bear.

01:24:07.000 You could turn the wrong corner and run into a mountain lion.

01:24:10.000 It doesn't happen a lot, but it could happen.

01:24:12.000 You could fall.

01:24:13.000 You could fall.

01:24:13.000 You know like your friend Roy mm-hmm, so it's a yeah, I mean that's where I mean that's where I Feel most alive obviously because you have to be you know if you're not in tune Who knows what happens it seems like also that there's some some reward systems that are built into being a human being they get like little switches and That gets snapped on when you're out there that I didn't even know existed.

01:24:43.000 And it's what I've seen with many people who are very smart people who become hunters who then they start talking about it and they articulate really similar thoughts that it becomes the act of consuming becomes very different When you acquire it the hard way.

01:25:03.000 Yeah.

01:25:16.000 It's a beautiful feeling.

01:25:18.000 It feels nice.

01:25:18.000 It feels satisfying.

01:25:19.000 But it's much more muted.

01:25:21.000 Like when I cook an elk steak, it's something that I was there for the entire time.

01:25:27.000 I was there when I got shot, helped cut it up and carry it out.

01:25:31.000 There's a memory attached to that.

01:25:34.000 There's a primal satisfaction attached to that.

01:25:38.000 And there's also this feeling like, I know that thing wasn't penned up.

01:25:41.000 I know that thing didn't get stuffed full of hormones. 0.99

01:25:44.000 I know that thing didn't get tortured before it died.

01:25:47.000 I know it wasn't corralled into this area and then they shoot a fucking piston into its brain while it's watching all of its friends die in the same way.

01:25:57.000 I know it.

01:25:59.000 I don't know if they have friends, though.

01:26:01.000 They have buddies.

01:26:02.000 They hang out.

01:26:03.000 They hang out until pussy's out, like many other friends. 0.99

01:26:09.000 Then the backstabbing begins, literally.

01:26:11.000 They stab each other in the back with their antlers.

01:26:15.000 It's brutal out there.

01:26:16.000 But yeah, I mean, that connection Hunter has with the animal and just be able to bring that home and cook it up and sit around the table.

01:26:27.000 That's just with your family.

01:26:29.000 I mean, that's how it's always been.

01:26:31.000 That's how it's always been since the beginning of time.

01:26:33.000 Being a provider is a powerful thing.

01:26:36.000 And I wonder if this new trend away from that, I wonder what's going on with human beings.

01:26:41.000 And if it is just a natural progression of creating structures and safety and society in the sense of civilization the way we think of it today.

01:26:50.000 I wonder if it's a natural sort of a progression to slowly but surely move away from that world.

01:26:57.000 Wild world and to get more and more custom with the idea of us creating our own food from some other way Like by detaching from how you grow your vegetables by detaching from where your meat comes from That we're like setting ourselves up to go further and further down this road of not really being an animal anymore Being some new kind of weird thing.

01:27:19.000 I'm not going that way You're not going that way?

01:27:21.000 Well, you're not going that way at this life.

01:27:24.000 No.

01:27:24.000 In this life, you're in this sort of a transitionary stage, or the culture is, or society is, or human beings are.

01:27:31.000 You're digging in.

01:27:32.000 I'm digging in as a hunter.

01:27:33.000 You're going old school.

01:27:34.000 I stay in old school.

01:27:36.000 But me as a person who's like half-assed scientist who tries to study human beings, tries to figure out what the fuck I'm doing.

01:27:41.000 I wouldn't even use the word scientist loosely.

01:27:43.000 That's just like something else, whatever I am.

01:27:45.000 But when I look at it, I'm always like, what is going on here?

01:27:49.000 Because there's clearly something going on with human beings as an organism.

01:27:55.000 Mm-hmm.

01:27:56.000 Like, there's something going on where we're moving away from the natural world with cities.

01:28:00.000 We're moving away from the natural world with our ability to control our environment.

01:28:05.000 It's hot as fuck outside right now.

01:28:07.000 And you and I feel great.

01:28:09.000 How are you feeling, Jamie?

01:28:10.000 Feel great?

01:28:11.000 AC's nice, right?

01:28:12.000 It's beautiful.

01:28:12.000 So we figured out a way to live in these harsh environments with no consequences whatsoever, except in the environment itself.

01:28:20.000 There's consequences about the...

01:28:26.000 Yeah.

01:28:28.000 Yeah.

01:28:42.000 It's always perfect.

01:28:43.000 You could sleep outside and you're fine.

01:28:45.000 There's not that much wildlife to worry about.

01:28:48.000 There's so many mountain lions that killed all the deer.

01:28:50.000 You don't even get in car accidents against deer.

01:28:52.000 Like our connection to wildlife is like fucking nil.

01:28:55.000 Yeah.

01:28:56.000 I don't think being comfortable all the time, I don't think, you know, LA and cities like LA, it's not good.

01:29:03.000 I mean, it's not good to eliminate All the challenges of being a human I mean, that's why that's why I like getting out there and just Being immersed in challenge because I don't know.

01:29:17.000 I mean, how do you appreciate how good you have it when you never have it hard?

01:29:21.000 That is a big point.

01:29:22.000 That's a big point It's a big point that was hammered home for me when I came back from Prince of Wales from unsuccessful hunt Yeah, we're out there for five or six days I think And it was pouring rain every day.

01:29:35.000 It was cold as shit.

01:29:36.000 Every day your fingers are pruned up, and you're freezing your dick off, and you just can't wait to get back home.

01:29:41.000 And when I got back home to L.A., my God, it was glorious.

01:29:45.000 I called up Renell.

01:29:46.000 I go, dude, I don't think I've ever been happier in my life.

01:29:49.000 Every day was so nice.

01:29:50.000 It felt so good.

01:29:52.000 It was so nice to see my friends.

01:29:54.000 It was so nice to see the sun.

01:29:57.000 I called up Callan, and he said the same thing.

01:29:59.000 He's like, dude, I feel great.

01:30:02.000 I just feel so thankful to be back.

01:30:05.000 I feel so thankful to be in a city where I don't have to worry about where my food comes from.

01:30:09.000 I don't have to worry about starving to death.

01:30:10.000 Yeah.

01:30:11.000 It makes you appreciate this weird thing that we've gotten.

01:30:15.000 And I think when you don't experience both things, that's when you take it for granted.

01:30:19.000 Yeah.

01:30:20.000 So if you never would have went, you would never have had those feelings.

01:30:23.000 Yeah.

01:30:23.000 You know, and I think it's important.

01:30:25.000 I think it's...

01:30:25.000 That's why I like when people...

01:30:29.000 Want to take on the challenge of hunting.

01:30:31.000 Want to learn more about it.

01:30:33.000 The byproduct, yeah, we've talked about the positive byproduct is you're a conservationist.

01:30:37.000 Another byproduct is you're going to realize what it's like to be uncomfortable.

01:30:42.000 And then, you know, conversely, you're going to realize how good we have it.

01:30:45.000 Yeah.

01:30:45.000 And how you appreciate being able to walk up to the tap and fill a glass with water.

01:30:51.000 I mean, I've been on a lot of hunts where just getting water was like, okay, here's the focus of the day.

01:30:57.000 I need to find water.

01:30:59.000 Yeah.

01:30:59.000 That's it.

01:31:00.000 When you were drinking buffalo piss water...

01:31:04.000 Yeah.

01:31:05.000 When you guys were in...

01:31:06.000 This is a crazy story because it also involves crocodiles.

01:31:10.000 Yeah.

01:31:10.000 When you guys were in Australia and you decided, you and crazy fucking Adam Greentree...

01:31:15.000 Yeah.

01:31:15.000 ...decided, let's bring no food.

01:31:18.000 Right.

01:31:18.000 And go out into the bush where it's 120 degrees.

01:31:20.000 We'll definitely shoot a buffalo and we'll just eat that.

01:31:23.000 Yeah.

01:31:24.000 Yeah.

01:31:24.000 We were gonna, quote, live off the land.

01:31:28.000 He's probably just happy he found someone dumb enough to do that with him.

01:31:31.000 I can't believe you listen to me, mate.

01:31:34.000 Everybody else tells me to fuck off.

01:31:36.000 Yeah.

01:31:37.000 Him and Owen Strano was there, too.

01:31:41.000 And Owen, I think he might have brought...

01:31:44.000 Man, what did he have?

01:31:46.000 Maybe some kind of a bar?

01:31:50.000 I don't know what he had.

01:31:51.000 I had half of a trail mix thing that I bought at the airport.

01:31:55.000 That was like gold.

01:31:57.000 But yeah, so we were going to live off the land.

01:31:59.000 Yeah, it was miserable.

01:32:02.000 So did he talk you into this?

01:32:04.000 Was it your idea or his idea?

01:32:05.000 It was his idea, but no, it was great.

01:32:08.000 No, I thought it sounded awesome.

01:32:10.000 He's out there shooting horses and cats and shit.

01:32:12.000 Come on, let's live off the land. 0.95

01:32:15.000 No, I thought it sounded great.

01:32:17.000 I mean, it was fine.

01:32:19.000 I'm used to being miserable.

01:32:21.000 A little food would have been nice because, as you know, like I said today, I need to eat like every hour.

01:32:26.000 Yeah, because you run so much.

01:32:28.000 Actually, I'm starving right now.

01:32:31.000 Before we launch the new Cameron Haynes podcast, which we will this afternoon, we'll get you a protein bar.

01:32:37.000 There you go.

01:32:38.000 All right.

01:32:38.000 I saw a Quest bar back there.

01:32:40.000 Yeah, there's a lot.

01:32:40.000 We've got boxes of shit back there.

01:32:42.000 Plenty of food.

01:32:43.000 I'm going to steal.

01:32:44.000 But yeah, so just living off the land took on a whole nother challenge to a hard hunt already.

01:32:49.000 So I was down for sure.

01:32:51.000 So you guys were eating only things that you had shot and then drinking water that you found.

01:32:56.000 And the water that you found was all filled with buffalo piss.

01:32:59.000 Yeah, because, again, too many buffalo.

01:33:02.000 I mean, when you say too many, if anybody's ever watched any of the videos on the numbers of buffalo from Asia, these are enormous.

01:33:10.000 What are they?

01:33:11.000 Cape buffalo?

01:33:11.000 What are they?

01:33:11.000 No, these are water buffalo.

01:33:12.000 Water buffalo?

01:33:13.000 Yeah.

01:33:13.000 And Cape buffalo's the African one that fight the lions?

01:33:16.000 Yep.

01:33:17.000 Enormous, giant beasts that are, you know, in herds.

01:33:22.000 Huge, huge herds of these things.

01:33:25.000 Yeah, no, but they're pretty wary still.

01:33:28.000 I mean, they're big animals, but they're not quite...

01:33:33.000 Not quite as wary as a Cape buffalo, I don't think, because they don't have lions hunting them.

01:33:37.000 But when they're around water, they're used to the crocodiles being in there.

01:33:41.000 They definitely are used to looking out for themselves.

01:33:45.000 So they're huge animals.

01:33:47.000 They can be dangerous just because they're so big.

01:33:51.000 But they're survivors, for sure.

01:33:54.000 That's another weird animal they hunt in Australia.

01:33:57.000 They hunt domestic cows.

01:33:59.000 We call them scrub bulls.

01:34:01.000 Scrub bulls, yeah.

01:34:02.000 And what a scrub bull is, is a domestic cow that got loose, you know, many, many generations ago, and now have become completely feral, and you're dealing with bulls. 0.88

01:34:12.000 And you know how, like, when you ride bulls, folks, that they buck and kick?

01:34:16.000 And you know how the matador stands in the middle and the bull just fucking charges him, tries to kill him?

01:34:21.000 Yeah, that's what bulls do in the wild times ten.

01:34:25.000 So you have these super hyper-aggressive masses of muscle.

01:34:30.000 And this is a video.

01:34:31.000 It says Cam's Raw.

01:34:32.000 What does it say?

01:34:33.000 What is the name?

01:34:34.000 Cam's Raw and Uncut Aussie Water Buff Heart Shot.

01:34:38.000 And this is you sneaking up on this massive animal, and you gotta walk super slow.

01:34:44.000 Yeah, the thing about it is they'll pick up movement, but as he's feeding there, I know I can move, so I just go very slow.

01:34:52.000 I have my rangefinder up near my face, so I don't have to reach for it and do a bunch of extra movement there.

01:34:59.000 How far away is he right here?

01:35:02.000 Probably 50 yards.

01:35:03.000 Now with animals is that big, why did you decide to keep walking towards them?

01:35:09.000 Closer is better with the bow.

01:35:10.000 Right, so you felt like you could get closer.

01:35:13.000 Yeah.

01:35:13.000 So you might as well just keep going until you realize that you have to draw.

01:35:18.000 Yeah, I'm waiting for him to get broadside because with an animal that big, You just have to wait for a good broadside shot.

01:35:27.000 And so here I am ranging him as I walk, and now he's getting ready to go broadside.

01:35:31.000 That's an important point, man, because shot placement is something that people that don't understand hunting don't know how difficult it is to not just have a shot on an animal, but have an animal be in position to take the shot.

01:35:42.000 I was watching a television show on guys that were hunting water buffalo with a bow and arrow, and I saw a guy take a frontal shot.

01:35:50.000 See, he's not feeding, so I'm not moving.

01:35:53.000 Because his head's up.

01:35:55.000 With his peripheral, he could see me.

01:35:56.000 So he thinks something's going on here.

01:35:59.000 He probably caught something.

01:36:00.000 I mean, his ear's covering his eye right there.

01:36:02.000 You've got to be that focused.

01:36:04.000 So I know he's not looking at me right now, but he might have thought he saw something.

01:36:09.000 So he's just kind of chilling out, chewing his cud.

01:36:12.000 And how hard is it to stay still here?

01:36:14.000 It's all right.

01:36:15.000 But I need him to go broadside.

01:36:17.000 I need that close leg to go forward.

01:36:19.000 Because if I just draw back and shoot without that...

01:36:23.000 Guaranteed gonna be unsuccessful.

01:36:25.000 So I need that leg to go forward, that close leg right here.

01:36:28.000 Now that opened up his vitals.

01:36:33.000 Boom, perfect.

01:36:35.000 Right in there.

01:36:36.000 And how far away was that?

01:36:37.000 That was 39 yards.

01:36:40.000 So their heart sits, I mean, you see that blood coming out right there.

01:36:46.000 It's pouring out.

01:36:47.000 The heart sits like right next to their thigh, right?

01:36:50.000 It's forward.

01:36:52.000 It's forward from an elk would be a little more back but basically you have to go right through that front leg and I shot a really heavy arrow a 90 pound that's a 90 pound Hoyt right there and you can see he's he's already weak so it's only been you know maybe a minute Not even.

01:37:09.000 He's about done.

01:37:10.000 So you have to actually shoot through the leg itself to get to the heart unless he's quartering away from you, maybe?

01:37:16.000 Yeah, quartering away.

01:37:17.000 The problem is they're so big.

01:37:19.000 So if it's two quartering away, their stomach's big and it's full of grass, so that could essentially be like for an arrow to go all the way through a bunch of grass, wet grass, I mean, probably not going to happen.

01:37:33.000 And you're shooting through ribs that are as thick as two by fours.

01:37:37.000 Two by fours, right.

01:37:38.000 What a crazy animal.

01:37:39.000 He's about bled out right here.

01:37:41.000 And the thing with the bow, I mean, these things fight each other.

01:37:45.000 So he has no idea what happened.

01:37:48.000 I mean, he's just like, no clue.

01:37:50.000 He's used to getting jabbed with horns or tree branches or all sorts of stuff.

01:37:54.000 All he knows is he's lost a lot of blood and boom, it's over.

01:37:59.000 Crazy.

01:38:00.000 Yeah.

01:38:00.000 Now you guys, when you went there and you didn't bring any water with you, you had to filter that piss water somehow, right?

01:38:09.000 Yeah.

01:38:10.000 What do you filter it with?

01:38:12.000 We had a water filter and we had a SteriPen.

01:38:15.000 What's that?

01:38:16.000 It's just like ultraviolet light.

01:38:18.000 You put in the water, you hit it with the ultraviolet light, and then it supposedly disinfects the water.

01:38:24.000 Supposedly is a key word.

01:38:26.000 The only reason why I throw out that is because we filtered it, we SteriPened it, we poured it through a shirt, and it still smelled like buffalo piss.

01:38:36.000 Well, it is buffalo piss.

01:38:37.000 It's sterilized buffalo piss.

01:38:39.000 But we drank it, and we didn't die.

01:38:41.000 I saw something online the other day.

01:38:43.000 They were trying to figure out how much of the ocean is whale piss.

01:38:47.000 Like, how many whales are there?

01:38:50.000 How long have they been peeing in the ocean?

01:38:53.000 How much of that, where does it go?

01:38:55.000 How much of the ocean is whale piss? 0.92

01:38:56.000 Somebody should protest them doing that.

01:38:58.000 Those dirty, stinky whales.

01:39:00.000 Yeah, so selfish.

01:39:01.000 I saw a sad thing, though, man, where this whale died, and when the whale was beached, they examined the contents of its stomach, and it was filled with fishing nets and plastic bags, because apparently whales eat a lot of squid, and they get confused at that stuff,

01:39:19.000 like plastic bags and things along those lines, and they think that it's food.

01:39:23.000 And then they got intestinal blockage, so it died by being backed up.

01:39:29.000 That's a rough way to go.

01:39:31.000 That is too bad.

01:39:32.000 They don't have whale doctors either in the ocean where they go, hey doc, I'm not feeling so good here.

01:39:38.000 Something's going on.

01:39:39.000 I haven't shit in a week.

01:39:41.000 Let me check you out.

01:39:42.000 Yeah.

01:39:43.000 No.

01:39:43.000 My whale piss is coming out bloody.

01:39:46.000 Not good.

01:39:47.000 The world.

01:39:48.000 The world of harsh nature.

01:39:51.000 We live in that world.

01:39:52.000 We just don't think we do because we've created this super cool thing called cities.

01:39:58.000 Yeah.

01:39:59.000 I don't think it's so cool.

01:40:00.000 It is definitely cool.

01:40:01.000 We have created it.

01:40:02.000 You're crazy.

01:40:02.000 You're wearing clothes that was created in cities.

01:40:04.000 You got a watch that was created in cities.

01:40:07.000 Your bow was created in a city.

01:40:09.000 I have a fit band.

01:40:10.000 I don't have a watch.

01:40:11.000 Oh, same thing.

01:40:12.000 Doesn't it tell you the time?

01:40:13.000 I think it does, yeah.

01:40:14.000 Come on.

01:40:14.000 It's got to tell you the time.

01:40:15.000 It says I got all-time record seven hours and 49 minutes of sleep.

01:40:20.000 Oh, that's an all-time record?

01:40:22.000 Well, congratulations.

01:40:24.000 Recently.

01:40:25.000 Congratulations is in order.

01:40:26.000 It is.

01:40:27.000 That's what happens when you get to stay in a hotel.

01:40:28.000 I know.

01:40:28.000 And you have to work that day.

01:40:30.000 Yeah.

01:40:30.000 No, it actually does have the time.

01:40:31.000 Sorry.

01:40:31.000 There you go.

01:40:32.000 So you got to watch.

01:40:33.000 Yeah.

01:40:33.000 You also have a car that you have to drive around to get to these hunting spots.

01:40:37.000 That's all created in a city.

01:40:39.000 I have a bow.

01:40:40.000 You got a bow, all this technology created by people in civilization that were allowed to relax, not worried about being eaten by wolves.

01:40:47.000 And they said, hey, these regular bows that we're using are kind of bullshit.

01:40:51.000 We need some cams on these things.

01:40:53.000 Right.

01:40:53.000 As you pull it back, it lets off at a certain weight, and then it's got more power going forward.

01:40:58.000 And a bunch of engineers went to schools, and they wrote things down on paper and on computers, all that stuff created in cities.

01:41:04.000 Yeah.

01:41:04.000 So, like, the city and this transition that some organisms are going through from wild to civilized actually makes it possible for you to exist in the wild world.

01:41:16.000 Again, just like the whole hunting is conservation thing, how ironic.

01:41:20.000 And how there is something positive to a city.

01:41:23.000 Is that what you're saying?

01:41:24.000 Oh, 100%.

01:41:25.000 100%.

01:41:26.000 Listen, man.

01:41:28.000 I'm not into working in a factory for 16 hours a day making iPhones, but if somebody wasn't, I wouldn't have an iPhone.

01:41:34.000 And I wouldn't be able to tell you that you've got to press that button twice in order to shut off your apps.

01:41:38.000 I did learn something today.

01:41:39.000 Slick, we all need each other.

01:41:41.000 That was awesome.

01:41:42.000 And for a guy like you who is so invested in living in the wild and having this challenge of being in the wild, you need your nice Under Armour clothes to keep you comfy and warm and dry when you're out there.

01:41:54.000 It's true.

01:41:54.000 You got your Under Armour boots that were made in some sort of a factory and designed by some sort of an engineer.

01:42:00.000 And you got your watch that tells you what altitude you're at.

01:42:03.000 Yeah.

01:42:04.000 All that stuff is a part of your experience in this wild world.

01:42:08.000 You know, you got your gear and you got your sat phone so you can call home.

01:42:13.000 You know, hey, I just shot the biggest bull of my life out here in the wild.

01:42:16.000 I'm talking to you from a fucking satellite 300 miles in space.

01:42:20.000 But that's one reason why I'm not the greatest when they send me stuff to try out.

01:42:24.000 Because I like being miserable.

01:42:26.000 I'm not the greatest for feedback.

01:42:28.000 So, hey, how'd it perform?

01:42:29.000 I'm like, I was fine.

01:42:30.000 You like being slightly miserable.

01:42:31.000 Otherwise, you'd go out there naked.

01:42:33.000 Right, right.

01:42:34.000 You know, because that's one of the big arguments that the non-hunters will use against the hunter.

01:42:39.000 Like, yeah, you're a real man?

01:42:40.000 Why don't you go kill that fucking elk with your hands?

01:42:43.000 Right.

01:42:44.000 Why don't you go kill with your hands, you fucking coward?

01:42:47.000 Well, that's not the way to do it, dummy.

01:42:49.000 Because you're not going to kill any of them.

01:42:51.000 You won't kill them.

01:42:52.000 That's not how you kill them.

01:42:53.000 Right.

01:42:53.000 You know, just like a rattlesnake doesn't kill you unless he uses poison.

01:42:56.000 A rattlesnake just tried to...

01:42:58.000 If a rattlesnake didn't have any poison and wanted to fight me, what are you going to do?

01:43:01.000 You're going to stab me with your little stupid needles?

01:43:03.000 Right.

01:43:03.000 You know what I'm going to do?

01:43:04.000 I'm going to crush your fucking head with a rock, stupid, because I have an imposable thumb.

01:43:08.000 So after you stab me with your needle that doesn't have any venom in it because you want to play fair, oh, look, I grab you by your head, I smash you with a rock.

01:43:15.000 I win, dummy.

01:43:16.000 Wait, that makes sense, though.

01:43:18.000 Dang it.

01:43:19.000 Well, it makes sense because I'm a human being, and I come from a long line of human beings.

01:43:23.000 And human beings have been thinking, and more importantly, we've been communicating.

01:43:27.000 We've been communicating with language, and we remember things that we learned, and we pass it on to others.

01:43:33.000 So I think...

01:43:34.000 What's going on now?

01:43:36.000 Even though it seems negative and it seems weird in the world of wildlife and hunting and hunters versus people who don't hunt, I think ultimately it all balances out really well because it all balances out in an honest way.

01:43:49.000 There's going to be people that don't agree with things no matter what.

01:43:52.000 Just like there's going to be people that don't agree with a lot of different things that a lot of people think are fine.

01:43:56.000 There's going to be disagreements, but in those disagreements we're going to find arguments that make sense and arguments that don't make sense.

01:44:03.000 We're going to find people that are disingenuous and that are not being totally honest with the scientific facts about nutrition, scientific facts about whether or not humans are omnivores or herbivores.

01:44:16.000 There's a lot of dishonesty.

01:44:18.000 Because these debates are not debates about facts and reason.

01:44:21.000 They're debates about ideology.

01:44:22.000 And they only promote and subscribe to ideas that benefit their ideology.

01:44:29.000 That's it.

01:44:29.000 And you get it on both sides.

01:44:31.000 That's one of the problems with the hunting is conservation.

01:44:33.000 Hunting's hunting.

01:44:34.000 Yeah.

01:44:35.000 Ben O'Brien's got it right.

01:44:38.000 Conservation's a byproduct of hunting.

01:44:40.000 And hunting, even if it wasn't conservation, it was just something you do to eat.

01:44:47.000 It's still good.

01:44:49.000 Yeah.

01:44:50.000 Still good.

01:44:51.000 This conversation is important though.

01:44:54.000 People are like, you guys going to talk about hunting again?

01:44:56.000 You going to justify your hunting?

01:44:57.000 That's a big one, man.

01:44:59.000 All you guys do is justify your hunting.

01:45:01.000 Yeah, it's true.

01:45:03.000 It's communication.

01:45:04.000 Yeah.

01:45:05.000 About something that, you know, I read your fucking Instagram.

01:45:09.000 Yeah, it's important.

01:45:11.000 Yeah, I mean, I try not to engage in the negative stuff on Instagram, but I do talk about the positive attributes of hunting.

01:45:19.000 I show, you know, skinning out bear.

01:45:22.000 I show my freezer full of meat.

01:45:26.000 I show working hard to be the most effective, ethical hunter I can be.

01:45:30.000 So, yeah, I try to share all of it.

01:45:32.000 Yeah, but you also have people that back you up.

01:45:34.000 That's kind of interesting.

01:45:35.000 People know that.

01:45:36.000 So you don't have to really engage.

01:45:37.000 You got a bunch of Cam Haynes soldiers out there.

01:45:40.000 Thanks, guys.

01:45:41.000 I watched your fucking Instagram page, The Battlefield.

01:45:44.000 Whenever you put some animal up, oh my goodness.

01:45:46.000 And it's a lot of Europeans.

01:45:48.000 Oh, I know.

01:45:49.000 Which is weird.

01:45:50.000 They're the most detached because they have the fewest percentage of hunters over there.

01:45:54.000 Yeah, I mean, I always get stuff from over there.

01:45:56.000 They just have no concept.

01:45:57.000 Or people, even Brazil, you know, you get...

01:46:01.000 Brazil's a big one. 0.64

01:46:02.000 Yeah.

01:46:03.000 It's a big one.

01:46:03.000 Yeah, a lot of hate from there.

01:46:05.000 Yeah, someone was talking to me about that the other day.

01:46:08.000 Someone was saying, like, how many people get upset about...

01:46:11.000 It might have been Shane.

01:46:12.000 Was it Shane Dorian?

01:46:14.000 But there's...

01:46:16.000 When you hear the Robin Hood story, like, when people think about Robin Hood, he robs the rich and gives to the poor.

01:46:23.000 What people don't understand is that was originally about...

01:46:33.000 Right.

01:46:50.000 We are incredibly lucky in this country in that...

01:46:53.000 I was in Yellowstone this weekend.

01:46:55.000 I told you I went up there and...

01:46:56.000 Fucking amazing, man.

01:46:57.000 What an amazing thing.

01:46:59.000 And that's a non-hunting thing, right?

01:47:01.000 Yellowstone, you can't hunt there.

01:47:02.000 But this concept of public land, this concept of more than a million acres...

01:47:07.000 I don't know how many millions of acres Yellowstone is, but...

01:47:10.000 It's a big chunk of property.

01:47:11.000 Incredible place that they can't build things on.

01:47:16.000 Yeah, protected.

01:47:17.000 You can't put a mall there.

01:47:19.000 And it's just wild and natural, and it's ours.

01:47:23.000 By an act of Congress, back before they had fucking cars, wrap your head around that.

01:47:29.000 They figured out before they had cars, they're like, yo, we gotta do something about this place.

01:47:33.000 This is too good.

01:47:34.000 We can't let anybody corrupt this.

01:47:36.000 And this is what was wrong with where we came from.

01:47:39.000 Where we came from, everybody owned all the land.

01:47:42.000 It was all private.

01:47:43.000 And you didn't have a place where you could just go backpacking and just camp out.

01:47:49.000 We have all these designated areas, designated areas that are all public land, owned by the taxpayers of the United States.

01:47:57.000 And whether you appreciate hunting or whether you just appreciate camping or hiking or any of those things, we have a beautiful thing in this country.

01:48:06.000 The wild world, the actual beautiful environment of these forests in most of the areas, or in a lot of the areas, all the areas designated as public land, they're ours.

01:48:19.000 They're yours.

01:48:19.000 They're Jamie's.

01:48:20.000 They're everybody that's listening.

01:48:21.000 All the people that live here.

01:48:23.000 And even if the listeners aren't going to hunt, which...

01:48:26.000 Fine, not everybody has to hunt, but I would say get out there to Yellowstone or there's some national forests here in California, some great, just get out there and experience life.

01:48:35.000 Yeah.

01:48:36.000 You know, I mean, because living in a city isn't experiencing life.

01:48:38.000 Well, it's experiencing life in a city.

01:48:41.000 It's life, but it's not real life.

01:48:44.000 It's almost like you have a TV that only shows three different colors.

01:48:47.000 Yeah.

01:48:47.000 You get a little bit of red, a little bit of white, a little bit of black.

01:48:49.000 That's it.

01:48:50.000 That's all you get.

01:48:50.000 Yeah.

01:48:51.000 And you don't know what it looks like if you're watching Avatar and a beautiful 4K TV, and you're like, oh, the beautiful, magical colors, and wow!

01:48:59.000 You've never seen it before.

01:49:01.000 You're experiencing a muted connection with your food and a very muted connection with wildlife that sometimes is fucking uncomfortable and scary.

01:49:11.000 Yeah, yeah, but it's also real.

01:49:15.000 Yeah.

01:49:15.000 You know, I've had some great hunts.

01:49:18.000 Marble Mountain Wilderness up in Northern California.

01:49:21.000 Where's that?

01:49:22.000 What part?

01:49:23.000 It's like just south of Oregon.

01:49:25.000 Oh, yeah?

01:49:26.000 What'd you do up there?

01:49:27.000 Deer hunt.

01:49:28.000 Killed a nice black tail buck.

01:49:30.000 What's it like up there?

01:49:32.000 Mountains.

01:49:33.000 Dents.

01:49:34.000 Yeah, it's timber.

01:49:35.000 It's great country.

01:49:37.000 Big country.

01:49:39.000 Pretty rugged.

01:49:40.000 Yoli Boli Wilderness.

01:49:42.000 Huge area.

01:49:43.000 Where's that?

01:49:44.000 Same area.

01:49:47.000 It's near Marble Mountain Wilderness.

01:49:49.000 Another giant area.

01:49:51.000 So many bear.

01:49:52.000 You almost see more bear than deer up there.

01:49:54.000 Really?

01:49:55.000 Why is that?

01:49:57.000 I don't know.

01:49:57.000 It's just great habitat.

01:49:58.000 So you can go up there and you can buy a deer tag and a bear tag.

01:50:01.000 When I went there, about $160 for a non-state resident or a non-resident of California out of state.

01:50:08.000 I'm a hunter.

01:50:10.000 And for a resident of California, probably super cheap, you know, but great hunting.

01:50:15.000 So you can go up there and hunt deer and hunt bear at the same time, camp out, survive.

01:50:22.000 See the stars in their natural way.

01:50:24.000 Yeah.

01:50:25.000 Yeah, all those things.

01:50:26.000 It opens up like mid-August.

01:50:29.000 But there's just an appreciation for this strange planet when you're viewing the life forms on it.

01:50:36.000 What is this, Jamie?

01:50:38.000 Picture of Marble Mountain.

01:50:39.000 Wow.

01:50:40.000 Goddamn, that's beautiful.

01:50:41.000 Mm-hmm.

01:50:42.000 So pretty.

01:50:42.000 Is that why it's called Marble Mountain?

01:50:44.000 Marble Mountain.

01:50:45.000 Because it looks like it's made out of marble.

01:50:47.000 It does look like raw marble.

01:50:50.000 Yeah.

01:50:50.000 Is it made out of marble?

01:50:51.000 Is that what that rock is?

01:50:53.000 I don't think so.

01:50:53.000 People go there to make countertops?

01:50:55.000 They're stealing from the land to make someone's counter.

01:50:58.000 Yeah, but isn't that amazing?

01:51:00.000 It's beautiful.

01:51:01.000 Yeah.

01:51:02.000 When I was in Montana this past week and went to the Yellowstone thing, I mean, you'd just be driving and you would just drive and just look down the street and go, fuck, this is crazy.

01:51:13.000 This place is crazy.

01:51:14.000 This view is like a drug.

01:51:18.000 Yeah.

01:51:18.000 Like, you're taking in this incredible mountainside covered in trees, and the sunlight is hitting the trees, and it had just got done raining, and everything was vibrant and green, and you're like, this is a drug.

01:51:31.000 Like, I'm getting an eyeball drug by staring at this thing.

01:51:34.000 Like, it's doing something to me physically where you just go, wow.

01:51:39.000 It makes you feel good to see it.

01:51:42.000 So Marble Mountain Wilderness, that's public land.

01:51:46.000 Anybody can go there.

01:51:47.000 You can go there anytime you want.

01:51:50.000 And when I'm there, what I feel like, so if you were at that exact same place that Jamie just had a picture of, you feel small.

01:51:58.000 You feel the country's big.

01:52:01.000 You feel insignificant, really, compared to how grand the country is.

01:52:06.000 And for me personally, I think for everybody, it's good.

01:52:10.000 It's good to feel small sometimes.

01:52:11.000 People elevate themselves.

01:52:13.000 People make themselves more important than they really are.

01:52:17.000 That puts you in check back there because you realize If anything happens back here, does anybody even know?

01:52:24.000 I mean, they'll find out.

01:52:25.000 But I'm just another, not too much different than an ant back here.

01:52:30.000 If I die, nothing's going to change.

01:52:32.000 The wind's going to still blow.

01:52:34.000 You know, the lions are still going to try to kill deer.

01:52:37.000 The elk are still going to try to breed.

01:52:39.000 Nothing changes.

01:52:39.000 So it's good.

01:52:40.000 I think it's good to have that feeling every once in a while to realize, you know what?

01:52:46.000 I'm not that special.

01:52:48.000 That's why I love the wilderness.

01:52:50.000 Well, there's an inescapable understanding when you're faced with the enormity of nature.

01:52:58.000 Everything to the left you, everything to the right, and everything as far as the eye can see doesn't give a fuck. 0.91

01:53:02.000 And it's all been this way for who knows how long, and it will be this way for who knows how long after you're gone.

01:53:09.000 This is just this life factory, and it's all going on all around you, and it doesn't care about you.

01:53:13.000 You are just an entrant.

01:53:15.000 You're an entrant in this weird sort of race that's going on where things are trying to get by.

01:53:23.000 Things are trying to get by by eating all the grasses.

01:53:25.000 The grasses are trying to get by by producing some sort of a chemical that discourages these things to eat them.

01:53:31.000 The animals are trying to run from the other animals that are trying to eat them, and we're all just hanging out watching or participating.

01:53:39.000 But in, you know, in regular life, everybody's so worried about people's feelings and people being fairly treated or people, whatever.

01:53:52.000 And it's just like, it just gets so...

01:53:54.000 I get it.

01:53:55.000 I want, you know, everybody should be treated fairly, but I like when it's just black and white. 1.00

01:54:00.000 I like when I'm in the mountains.

01:54:02.000 I don't have to worry about or even think about everybody's cause or the cause of the day or I don't know.

01:54:10.000 I mean, it's just it puts it in perspective.

01:54:12.000 It does put in perspective and I think it would be good for everybody including people that are really invested in these causes to experience this.

01:54:20.000 Yeah, because I think it broadens your perspective and And again, even if you're just hiking out there, like I said, the hunt that made me feel the most thankful was an unsuccessful one.

01:54:30.000 So all we were doing was hiking with guns.

01:54:33.000 So we went hiking with guns for five days in the rain.

01:54:35.000 And I came back and I felt so goddamn good.

01:54:38.000 And not just good about the ability to have food, to not have to go out and hunt it and kill it because we're unsuccessful, but...

01:54:45.000 That this is a really cool thing that we figured out how to do to escape that world.

01:54:51.000 That world of harsh, brutal nature.

01:54:54.000 The tooth, fang, and claw world.

01:54:56.000 But you're not going to appreciate that unless you go in there.

01:55:01.000 In there, yeah.

01:55:02.000 In there, though, that's where it gets hard.

01:55:05.000 It's hard to convince people.

01:55:06.000 It's hard to convince fat people to get off the couch.

01:55:10.000 It's hard to convince people that it probably would benefit them to be uncomfortable.

01:55:16.000 Yeah.

01:55:18.000 We're addicted to comfort, for sure.

01:55:21.000 You're addicted to being uncomfortable, which is what makes you real fucking weird.

01:55:25.000 You're Captain Uncomfortable.

01:55:28.000 That's your new name.

01:55:28.000 That's your podcast name.

01:55:29.000 Oh, I like it.

01:55:30.000 Captain Uncomfortable.

01:55:31.000 So let's talk about that because we're going to end this soon and we're going to start the first episode of the Cameron Haynes podcast, but we have to have a name for it.

01:55:39.000 Mm-hmm.

01:55:40.000 What did we come up with?

01:55:42.000 Keep Hammerin' is a good one.

01:55:44.000 Yeah.

01:55:44.000 I like that.

01:55:45.000 You know why?

01:55:46.000 Because that was the first thing that I ever heard from you or about you.

01:55:51.000 I might have even heard that before I met you.

01:55:52.000 Yeah.

01:55:53.000 And I was like, look at this fucking dude out there working, and his constant catchphrase is, keep hammering.

01:55:59.000 I'm like, that's a good thing to think of if you're thinking about quitting.

01:56:04.000 Like, if you're thinking about, if you're like, I'm gonna run five miles today, and on that third mile, you're like, fuck, I don't want to do this.

01:56:09.000 And you just say, God, fucking keep hammering.

01:56:11.000 Yeah, I'm gonna keep hammering.

01:56:12.000 And the mindset of pushing yourself forward is a good mindset.

01:56:17.000 It's a good mindset to have, because Your goddamn comfortable, soft-ass, water balloon full of blood body wants you to take breaks.

01:56:26.000 Yeah.

01:56:27.000 That bitch-ass body. 1.00

01:56:28.000 It does.

01:56:29.000 It's begging for a break.

01:56:31.000 Bitch-ass body we have. 1.00

01:56:32.000 What do you think, Jamie?

01:56:33.000 Keep hammering?

01:56:35.000 Yeah, that sounds like a great one.

01:56:37.000 Or, filthy skills.

01:56:39.000 Filthy skills is confusing, though.

01:56:41.000 It's a little inside joke, a little bit.

01:56:43.000 Might be better for a shirt.

01:56:45.000 It's like if I called this podcast, Let's Get Lucrative.

01:56:47.000 Filthy skills can go lots of ways. 0.98

01:56:50.000 Right, so, yeah.

01:56:51.000 It could be.

01:56:51.000 It could be gross, like people would think dirty porn, right?

01:56:55.000 I think Filthy Skills might be better as a shirt.

01:56:58.000 Okay.

01:56:59.000 So, Hanesworld, like Wayne's World. 0.99

01:57:03.000 Yeah.

01:57:04.000 Somebody had one.

01:57:04.000 I like that, yeah.

01:57:05.000 They made a poster, right?

01:57:06.000 Did they make an online thing?

01:57:07.000 Yeah, I saw it last week.

01:57:08.000 Yeah, but you need a sidekick.

01:57:11.000 Who would you be?

01:57:11.000 Would you be the Mike Myers or would you be the Dana Carvey?

01:57:15.000 Garth?

01:57:16.000 Which one was Garth?

01:57:17.000 Wayne and Garth was Dana Carvey.

01:57:19.000 So Garth was Dana Carvey?

01:57:21.000 Yeah.

01:57:22.000 I kind of like Garth better.

01:57:24.000 You like Garth better than Wayne?

01:57:27.000 A lot better.

01:57:29.000 Well, yeah.

01:57:29.000 That's my boy.

01:57:30.000 I don't have a sidekick, though.

01:57:31.000 Yeah, you don't have a sidekick.

01:57:33.000 You need a sidekick, dude.

01:57:35.000 Who'd we get?

01:57:36.000 You need, like, someone to argue with.

01:57:40.000 You need, like, some vegan sort of Nick Tooth-type character to do battle with.

01:57:45.000 That's a whole different show.

01:57:47.000 I know, but I'm just trying to be in a network.

01:57:49.000 I'm like a network executive trying to fuck up your original idea.

01:57:53.000 We need drama.

01:57:54.000 We need a wacky neighbor. 0.99

01:57:57.000 Your show needs a gay neighbor who's a vegan, who gets mad at you. 1.00

01:58:03.000 Yeah.

01:58:03.000 He takes your meat out and he thaws it out in the outside and it all goes bad to punish you for killing animals.

01:58:10.000 Okay.

01:58:10.000 That's episode one.

01:58:12.000 We'll have to put out a feeler for that.

01:58:15.000 There's plenty of those dudes out there. 0.99

01:58:16.000 You can find them.

01:58:17.000 Just go through your Instagram comments and pluck them out.

01:58:19.000 You've got to get them to come here from Europe though. 1.00

01:58:22.000 Yeah.

01:58:23.000 Well, I know one guy who shared a picture of a bear I killed on his site and brought me a lot of hate.

01:58:31.000 Maybe he'd be my sidekick.

01:58:33.000 There's a lot of those dudes.

01:58:35.000 Yeah.

01:58:35.000 There's a lot of those.

01:58:36.000 A lot of them are like vegan bodybuilders, which is really interesting.

01:58:38.000 That's the guy.

01:58:39.000 Yeah, but there's a bunch of those.

01:58:41.000 Yeah.

01:58:41.000 Steroid users, by the way.

01:58:43.000 Yeah.

01:58:44.000 Steroids.

01:58:44.000 Steroid users.

01:58:46.000 Not that there's anything wrong with steroids, but you motherfuckers aren't talking about that. 1.00

01:58:50.000 I see the size of your muscles.

01:58:53.000 I see your diet, and that doesn't make sense to me.

01:58:56.000 You're not taking in enough fat to produce the kind of testosterone that you need to develop those kind of muscles.

01:59:00.000 You're just not.

01:59:02.000 And you guys are lean as fuck, and your muscles are massive.

01:59:05.000 I see it.

01:59:06.000 I know what you're doing.

01:59:07.000 You're on...

01:59:08.000 Steroids.

01:59:09.000 And by the way, a lot of those steroids aren't vegan.

01:59:14.000 They require bacteria. 0.62

01:59:16.000 They require dead life in order to create.

01:59:20.000 Some of it's vegan.

01:59:21.000 They actually make testosterone from wild yams.

01:59:24.000 Hmm.

01:59:25.000 Interesting, right?

01:59:26.000 Didn't know that.

01:59:27.000 Yeah.

01:59:28.000 But either way, this is like some hypocritical horse shit going on.

01:59:32.000 There's also a lot of weird posturing going on.

01:59:34.000 Part of the reason why they're doing it is because they want to appear to be very noble.

01:59:38.000 And it's what's called, Michael Sherman calls it virtue signaling.

01:59:42.000 Hmm.

01:59:42.000 Schirmer is a very famous skeptic and intellectual, and he's like, this is what they're doing.

01:59:48.000 They're signaling to the people around them.

01:59:50.000 Sort of like when an elk bugles is to let all the other elk know he's a bad motherfucker.

01:59:55.000 Well, by having all these anti-hunters, which is like, if you have an anti-hunter post, you're absolutely going to have a bunch of people to take your side.

02:00:06.000 Yeah, fuck those people, right?

02:00:07.000 But they also get to see how good your six-pack looks.

02:00:10.000 So you say fuck those people, but you're also oiled down and you're talking about, you know, cruelty-free, you know, awesome life and healthy living while you're like overhead pressing a lot of weight.

02:00:23.000 You look sleek and you probably get some pussy that way. 1.00

02:00:25.000 And that's what these guys are doing.

02:00:27.000 There's a lot of that going on.

02:00:29.000 It's not a coincidence that some of the cuntiest fucks are also some of the ones who are the most into their physiques. 0.99

02:00:34.000 Right.

02:00:35.000 I see what you're doing.

02:00:36.000 I know what you're doing.

02:00:37.000 I guarantee you if you got those guys alone with no one watching and you had a conversation with them, they would fall apart.

02:00:44.000 I guarantee you their arguments would fall apart.

02:00:47.000 Their motivations would fall apart.

02:00:48.000 If there's no one there to cheer them on or help them, you actually got to see them as a human being.

02:00:53.000 Having a communication with you as a human being about why it is that they're spreading this kind of hate.

02:00:59.000 And then you get into the very specifics of this and you realize this argument is long and vast and super complex.

02:01:07.000 You guys are trying to make it look like it's not.

02:01:09.000 Trying to make it look like you eating that salad, you're the best ever.

02:01:12.000 You're super awesome.

02:01:13.000 Yeah, you're better than us as hunters.

02:01:15.000 Exactly.

02:01:17.000 You're better than people who don't do what you do, even though you just started doing it four months ago.

02:01:21.000 Exactly.

02:01:23.000 Oh, so irritating.

02:01:25.000 Did you see the video of the dude who was eating a pizza and he finds out it's got cheese in it and he fucking freaks out?

02:01:31.000 Mm-mm.

02:01:31.000 He's a vegan, and he's talking about how awesome it is to be a vegan, and then he realizes in the middle of the video that the pizza has cheese in the sauce.

02:01:39.000 Was it real?

02:01:40.000 And he goes, ballistic?

02:01:41.000 Yeah.

02:01:42.000 Because it's a long video.

02:01:43.000 Oh.

02:01:44.000 And it's just...

02:01:45.000 He throws his phone.

02:01:47.000 He screams and yells.

02:01:48.000 He's so angry.

02:01:49.000 And in the video, he's talking about, like, you can't say that you're a good person if you're not vegan.

02:01:55.000 You can't say that you're a person who tries to be a good person.

02:01:59.000 Well, if that's the case, why aren't you vegan?

02:02:01.000 Yeah.

02:02:03.000 Like, boy, you fucking nailed it.

02:02:05.000 You made it so simple.

02:02:06.000 Yeah.

02:02:06.000 His mom ordered the pizza.

02:02:08.000 Oh.

02:02:09.000 So it's just...

02:02:09.000 It's a misunderstanding.

02:02:11.000 It's very hilarious.

02:02:12.000 But this is the guy.

02:02:13.000 Oh.

02:02:14.000 It's like, we don't have to play this, man.

02:02:16.000 No, no, no.

02:02:17.000 I don't want to shit on this guy.

02:02:18.000 You can go find it if you want, folks.

02:02:20.000 I don't want to play it or shit on this guy.

02:02:21.000 He's just a young kid.

02:02:23.000 He's got his ideas, and maybe in his mind he's right.

02:02:26.000 But I just found the folly in watching him freak out over some cheese.

02:02:32.000 Yeah, I get it.

02:02:34.000 Look, man, if you want something to be upset about rather than hunters, it is absolutely the fucking dairy industry and agricultural gag laws, those ag gag laws that don't allow you to film these chicken factories where these things are stuffed into these horrible conditions or pig factories or factory farming.

02:02:52.000 Yeah.

02:02:53.000 I'm 100% with you.

02:02:54.000 I think it is one of the worst aspects of civilization, the way we acquire our protein.

02:02:59.000 And here's another real problem and a contradiction, and for guys like you and us, we don't really have an argument against this.

02:03:06.000 Not everybody can hunt.

02:03:08.000 And if you want to eat meat and you want to do it in an ethical way, you have a real dilemma that they are pointing out.

02:03:15.000 I think that by going against hunters, though, they're missing the mark in a big, big, big way.

02:03:23.000 They're missing the mark in a giant way.

02:03:24.000 We're not the enemy.

02:03:25.000 No.

02:03:26.000 Definitely.

02:03:26.000 But, I mean, if you do want to eat meat and you don't hunt, there are places...

02:03:32.000 I mean, my buddy Adam LaRoche owns E3 Ranch, and that's all free range.

02:03:36.000 Yeah, you can do it.

02:03:37.000 It can be done.

02:03:38.000 But it's expensive, and you're not going to get it at McDonald's.

02:03:42.000 And if you want a quick cheeseburger and you want to pull into that Wendy's drive-thru, boy, you've got to put those ethical blinders on.

02:03:50.000 Yeah.

02:03:50.000 You have to.

02:03:51.000 Yep.

02:03:51.000 And there, in that sense...

02:03:53.000 Take a break from ethics that day.

02:03:55.000 Yep, and in that sense, all these vegans are right.

02:03:57.000 In that sense, when they're talking about how animals are being treated, where we're getting our milk from and our cheese from, in most of these large-scale factories, they're right.

02:04:08.000 They're 100% right, and I'm with them.

02:04:10.000 I just think that this whole conversation is really about human beings and civilization itself and our ability to diffuse responsibility, our ability to detach ourselves.

02:04:24.000 And just like we're talking about these people that consume grain and don't think about the consequences on life, these people that consume all sorts of vegetables that pesticides are used that are killing off bees.

02:04:35.000 This is a huge issue that you contribute to.

02:04:37.000 I do.

02:04:39.000 All the people that we know that eat fruits and vegetables most likely have in some way contributed to the large-scale death of a lot of different insects and animals.

02:04:47.000 It's just a part of being a person.

02:04:49.000 And you can't deny that.

02:04:51.000 If you try to deny that and say, well, I'm trying to do the least harm possible, that's great.

02:04:56.000 That's like trying to say, I'm a serial killer, but I only like to kill once a month.

02:05:00.000 Yeah.

02:05:01.000 Like, I had this fucking guy argue with me, and one of the things he was arguing, he's like, I'm 90% vegetarian.

02:05:07.000 Oh.

02:05:07.000 What does that mean?

02:05:09.000 It's fucking ridiculous.

02:05:10.000 Yeah.

02:05:10.000 But that's the same thing.

02:05:12.000 It's like the same thing as saying you're a vegan.

02:05:14.000 I am too.

02:05:15.000 The six hours that I'm sleeping?

02:05:17.000 Total vegetarian.

02:05:20.000 So what is that?

02:05:20.000 That's 25%.

02:05:21.000 Yeah, you're not eating at all during that time.

02:05:23.000 No.

02:05:23.000 You're an airitarian.

02:05:24.000 Right.

02:05:24.000 So I'm like, I'm better than him.

02:05:27.000 But if you're contributing to death, then you really can't say anything, and everyone's contributing to death.

02:05:32.000 If you live in a house, if your house is made out of wood, if trees fell to build your house, Animals died.

02:05:41.000 Do you know what Michael Pollan...

02:05:42.000 Absolutely.

02:05:43.000 And their habitat was displaced.

02:05:44.000 Do you know what Michael Pollan says?

02:05:46.000 He's the guy who wrote that book, The Omnivore's Dilemma.

02:05:48.000 Very, very fascinating guy.

02:05:50.000 He said that they have done research where they have played the sound of animals eating leaves and plants next to plants and somehow or another the very sound of those animals eating plants causes the plants to excrete defensive chemicals.

02:06:10.000 So, somehow or another, these plants, they're not just feeling that someone's eating them, they're hearing it, and they're aware, and they're reacting to sound in some sort of a strange way that is commensurate with the way an animal reacts to danger,

02:06:26.000 in some sort of a strange way.

02:06:28.000 He also says that they produce some human neurochemicals, like serotonin and dopamine.

02:06:33.000 They produce commensurate chemicals, and we don't know why.

02:06:36.000 We don't know what's going on there.

02:06:39.000 Crazy.

02:06:39.000 Fucking nuts.

02:06:41.000 Nuts.

02:06:42.000 I had to read it like three or four times.

02:06:44.000 I'm like, wait a minute.

02:06:45.000 They played sounds of animals eating plants next to the plants and the plants started, they're fucking eating us!

02:06:53.000 That's actually pretty barbaric to do that.

02:06:55.000 It's rude.

02:06:56.000 Yeah.

02:06:57.000 Either you're going to eat them or don't eat them.

02:06:58.000 Don't torture them first.

02:07:00.000 It's like, you know, you wouldn't, like, kill cows, but before you kill them, you play this horrible sound.

02:07:05.000 Yeah.

02:07:06.000 Of other cows getting killed.

02:07:08.000 Bad news for vegetarians.

02:07:10.000 Plants can hear themselves being eaten and become defensive when attacked.

02:07:15.000 Researchers from the University of Missouri found plants respond to attack.

02:07:18.000 They discovered that the sound of caterpillars eating made them more defensive and plants that heard caterpillar sounds released more mustard oils which are unappealing to caterpillars and thus ward them off.

02:07:30.000 Wow.

02:07:32.000 But plants that heard the wind, despite having a similar acoustic sound, knew not to waste their defensive capabilities.

02:07:39.000 Whoa.

02:07:40.000 This suggests that plants are able to identify sounds in their environment.

02:07:44.000 That makes sense, man.

02:07:46.000 Most people don't give it a second thought when they're tucking into a plate of salad, but perhaps we should be a bit more considerate when chomping on lettuce.

02:07:53.000 Scientists have found that plants actually respond defensively.

02:07:56.000 You just need to accept the fact that life eats life.

02:07:58.000 Life eats life.

02:07:59.000 That's all there is to it.

02:08:00.000 Well, that doesn't allow you to be sanctimonious or to take the moral high ground.

02:08:05.000 So I'm going to have to say you're full of shit and a piece of fucking human garbage, and you're out there raping the world with your filthy skills.

02:08:12.000 By the way, you can get this filthy skills t-shirt, skills with a Z, like the young kids are doing, these crazy kids, at CameronHaines.com, right?

02:08:19.000 That's it.

02:08:20.000 That's it.

02:08:20.000 Free shipping.

02:08:21.000 Filthy skills, bitches. 1.00

02:08:22.000 Alright, we're going to come back and this time Cam's going to do all the talking because I can't shut the fuck up.

02:08:27.000 I had too much coffee.

02:08:28.000 And we're going to come back with the Cameron Haynes podcast.

02:08:31.000 It won't be on YouTube.

02:08:32.000 Maybe he'll eventually get it set up where it's going to be on YouTube, but I'll tweet it.

02:08:36.000 He'll tweet it.

02:08:37.000 He'll put it on Facebook and everything like that and you'll be able to download that shit.

02:08:42.000 Friends and neighbors.

02:08:44.000 Cam Haynes, I love you, buddy.

02:08:45.000 You're awesome.

02:08:45.000 Thank you.

02:08:46.000 Love you.

02:08:46.000 Alright, see you, people.

The Joe Rogan Experience - June 28, 2016

Joe Rogan Experience #815 - Cameron Hanes

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Transcript