The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #817 - Jason Hairston & Brendan Burns

00:00:00.000 Couple hours and yeah, we got the gun.

00:00:03.000 What's up, gentlemen?

00:00:04.000 How are you?

00:00:05.000 Good.

00:00:05.000 Thanks for having us, Joe.

00:00:06.000 For people who tune into this podcast, I got Brendan Burns and Jason Harrison, who run a company called Kuyu, which is the premier...

00:00:14.000 If you could look at your company... 0.98

00:00:18.000 In comparison to a lot of other sporting good companies, if people think about a hunting company, you think about some Duck Dynasty type shit. 0.64

00:00:29.000 What I like about your company is there's not a lot of people that take what you guys do, like make clothing and gear... 0.98

00:00:39.000 And take it to the most technical and most intelligent, like, what is the best shit you can possibly make? 0.96

00:00:47.000 That's it. 0.99

00:00:47.000 And go do that. 0.99

00:00:48.000 That's the goal.

00:00:49.000 But because of that, this company's become this gigantic company.

00:00:53.000 I found out about you guys from my friend, Martin Putelis, who works for Meat Eater.

00:00:59.000 He was wearing these clothes.

00:01:00.000 I go, what's going on with that?

00:01:01.000 What do you got there?

00:01:02.000 And he's like, this is Kuyu.

00:01:03.000 This is this new company that's out.

00:01:05.000 Feel this.

00:01:06.000 Feel this.

00:01:06.000 This is ultra light.

00:01:07.000 It's the best kind of fabric.

00:01:08.000 So he started telling me about your company.

00:01:10.000 And I just love when people go for it.

00:01:14.000 I love when people...

00:01:14.000 People wouldn't think that there's this big market to create the most technical, most ridiculously engineered hunting clothes.

00:01:24.000 You would say, well, what the fuck? 0.99

00:01:25.000 Who's doing that? 1.00

00:01:26.000 And who cares?

00:01:27.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:01:29.000 Who needs it? 0.98

00:01:30.000 But then listening to you guys on a couple of podcasts, I'm like, these guys are fucking sharp dudes. 0.98

00:01:35.000 Super sharp, intelligent people who just happen to be in love with hunting. 0.89

00:01:39.000 And so you've taken this mindset, this achievement-oriented mindset, and put it towards this company, and it's fascinating to me.

00:01:48.000 Yeah, I just got into it because I wanted to make stuff I couldn't find.

00:01:53.000 I wanted better performing products.

00:01:56.000 We created the category with Sitka back in the days, back in 2004, because I was wearing all mountaineering gear and wondered why I was the only person that wanted that style, that type, that performance level of hunting gear.

00:02:09.000 I didn't believe that I was alone.

00:02:11.000 And came up with a concept, introduced it in 06 to the hunting market, and it exploded.

00:02:16.000 Created the entire technical apparel category, and it's just, it's now what everyone's chasing, it's what everyone wants to wear, and makes a significant difference for our customers in the mountains.

00:02:25.000 Well, there's a bit of, there's a lot of hunting people are kind of fashionistas in a way.

00:02:30.000 Yeah, totally.

00:02:31.000 They're like, ooh, what do you got there?

00:02:32.000 Is that Under Armour?

00:02:32.000 Ooh, is that First Light?

00:02:33.000 Yeah. 0.98

00:02:33.000 They start looking at your stuff almost like girls look at shoes and purses and shit. 0.98

00:02:38.000 It's really kind of interesting that way. 0.97

00:02:40.000 Well, no one likes to go to hunting camp and be out-geared, right?

00:02:42.000 Your buddy's got the coolest, latest stuff.

00:02:44.000 They're like, what?

00:02:45.000 What is that?

00:02:46.000 One of the reasons why I wanted to have you guys on is because I've done the best job I can of trying to educate people as to what I see when I talk to people that are really intelligent, really ethical, very...

00:02:59.000 Very involved people that are fanatics about hunting.

00:03:02.000 Because I think people have a distorted perception of what hunting really is.

00:03:07.000 They totally do.

00:03:08.000 It's like yahoos, beer drinkers.

00:03:10.000 It's Bubba.

00:03:11.000 Bubba, exactly.

00:03:12.000 People think of hunters as Bubba.

00:03:13.000 Rednecks driving around drinking beer, shooting stuff out of the truck. 1.00

00:03:16.000 And it's so not that.

00:03:18.000 No.

00:03:18.000 Our customer base and what we do.

00:03:20.000 I mean, it's a true lifestyle.

00:03:21.000 It's a heritage.

00:03:22.000 It's been passed down in my family.

00:03:24.000 It's where we live and breathe.

00:03:25.000 It's why I train every day.

00:03:28.000 It's what my focus is in my life and what I've done for a career in a business.

00:03:32.000 And there's a lot to it.

00:03:34.000 And the places we go require that or you're going to pay a huge, huge price.

00:03:38.000 And so it's a way for me to test myself as a human being, as a man, as a hunter.

00:03:43.000 And in life.

00:03:44.000 And it's something that, you know, is a big, big part of me.

00:03:49.000 It's been passed down from my father and I'm passing it down to my kids.

00:03:52.000 And, you know, we've been hunters for two million years.

00:03:55.000 I'm freaking proud of it.

00:03:56.000 A lot of people shy away from it.

00:03:58.000 And it's something that is, you know, really, really obviously a very important part of my life.

00:04:03.000 Well, there's not a lot of high performance, you know, super skilled things where you also have a lowest common denominator kind of guy that you're associated with.

00:04:13.000 I mean, if Mountaineers, you know, had a guy that was wearing a white tank top and was down at the climbing gym falling off breaking his head every week, people would perceive him slightly different.

00:04:23.000 It runs, you know, the guys that are doing the most extreme stuff in the world and The perceived person that's down here, you get lumped in with the lowest common denominator guy, which is not the case at all.

00:04:36.000 That's a real good point.

00:04:41.000 It's certainly what we're doing and we're testing our products.

00:04:45.000 We argue that it's in a different format than even outdoor gear.

00:04:50.000 When the weather's bad and you're on a climb, you stay in your tent.

00:04:53.000 When the weather's bad and we're on a hunt, what do we do?

00:04:55.000 Yeah, especially if you're not bringing much food and you're counting on killing something and eating it up there.

00:05:00.000 Totally.

00:05:00.000 It's an endeavor that's a very, very difficult and misunderstood endeavor.

00:05:05.000 It really is.

00:05:05.000 And I think companies like yours and what you guys are doing and the videos that you release on YouTube, especially when you're going over the extreme engineering involved in your packs and your gear and all the different things, to me, that stuff's fascinating.

00:05:18.000 It is.

00:05:19.000 Because I love people that are just going for it, that are just engineering the shit out of things.

00:05:24.000 You guys are chopping down toothbrushes to make them lighter and all the stuff you're doing.

00:05:29.000 I was listening to one of the podcasts where you talk about your Excel sheet that you make, a spreadsheet that you make.

00:05:35.000 For every hunt, you weigh everything out so you know exactly what everything weighs before you're going onto a mountain.

00:05:41.000 You have to.

00:05:42.000 For what we're doing.

00:05:43.000 Yeah.

00:05:43.000 I mean, you look at any endurance sports, you look at cycling as a great example.

00:05:46.000 I mean, ounces they've proven are huge if you're climbing on a bike.

00:05:51.000 And the bike weight and the body weight on all that leads to better performance.

00:05:56.000 And we found the same to be with what we're doing on backpack hunts.

00:06:00.000 I mean, every ounce over a 10-day hunt really adds up in calorie burn and calorie deficit, which then turns out to be performance.

00:06:07.000 And you know it well from training.

00:06:08.000 Well, it's also, you guys have engineered these clothing, your clothing line is incredibly quiet, which is also a really important thing.

00:06:16.000 And there's so many different levels to getting it right when it comes to hunting gear, getting it right when it comes to, you know, I mean, it could be the difference between success and failure.

00:06:27.000 And this is one of the things that I wanted to kind of highlight about this pursuit.

00:06:32.000 I don't like to call hunting a sport or a discipline.

00:06:35.000 I mean, call it whatever you want, but it's not...

00:06:38.000 It is what it is.

00:06:40.000 It's weird that you have to lump it into this other thing.

00:06:42.000 But I think that people have a distorted perception of it because of what you said, because of this lowest common denominator guy, the Bubba thing.

00:06:50.000 But the more I've gotten into it, the more I've met people like you guys, or people like Cam Haynes or Steve Rinella.

00:06:57.000 Remy Warren and you get deep in you realize like this is a really difficult discipline very very difficult that has many many many layers to it really does I mean you look at the some of the expeditions we're doing up north you know we go up to the Yukon or Alaska or Northwest Territories and we're going from point A to point B like a normal expedition but we're hunting yeah on top of that exactly we got to manage the game that we take out on top of that yeah the weight and the extremes and the conditions and the weather I mean it adds to I mean,

00:07:26.000 you have to be really well prepared, really physically, mentally, and also with the right equipment and gear.

00:07:33.000 Yeah, I mean, you had in the mountains on some of the stuff we're doing.

00:07:35.000 I mean, it's not like, it's comparable with mountaineering, but, I mean, you don't have to, you know, it's not A to B. You just got to survive to A to B. I mean, you have to thrive in the mountains.

00:07:44.000 You have to understand what's going on with the animals.

00:07:46.000 You're up early, you're up late.

00:07:48.000 I mean, it's, it's, Even more in depth than just getting from point A to point B. And a lot of these places we're going, there is no reason to ever go there unless you were hunting.

00:07:58.000 I mean, there's some random mountain in the middle of an ice glacier that's not particularly tall, but there's no reason to go there unless you had something to go there to look for.

00:08:06.000 And that's the cool thing.

00:08:07.000 We're seeing stuff that nobody would ever go see.

00:08:10.000 Yeah, it's like A to B with a very complex biological puzzle.

00:08:14.000 Totally.

00:08:14.000 Yeah, it's so different than, like I said, a lot of people think of it.

00:08:18.000 And one of the things I like about your company is you guys are represented by this bighorn sheep. 1.00

00:08:23.000 I mean, that is like a part of your logo, which is one of the most difficult animals to pursue.

00:08:27.000 Sheep hunting is the pinnacle, man.

00:08:28.000 And it defines, for Brendan and I, and for people in the company and people associated with the brand, I mean, it is the ultimate...

00:08:36.000 Dream.

00:08:36.000 It's what we all dreamt about growing up, is someday I would be a sheep hunter.

00:08:39.000 I'll earn the right to go sheep hunting.

00:08:41.000 Because it's so difficult.

00:08:43.000 It is.

00:08:44.000 The opportunities are limited.

00:08:47.000 And it's an animal that lives in places that we can visit, but we can't live there.

00:08:52.000 I mean, they live in places that you just...

00:08:54.000 You know, we only get to like a snippet into their life because it's places you just can't live.

00:09:01.000 I mean, you can't go.

00:09:02.000 And you can die.

00:09:04.000 Absolutely.

00:09:05.000 I mean, Cam Haynes' good buddy, Roy Roth, died just this past season.

00:09:09.000 He did.

00:09:10.000 Fell 700 feet to his death while sheep hunting.

00:09:12.000 I was hunting, I had a tag in Alaska in the Chugach.

00:09:19.000 A little ways over from there.

00:09:21.000 We went 37 miles in up two forks of a glacier.

00:09:25.000 We got to where you could physically...

00:09:28.000 A human being without climbing gear could not go any further where I killed my sheep this fall.

00:09:32.000 A 15-year-old ram living up in the rocks.

00:09:35.000 That is some of the...

00:09:37.000 That's some of the most...

00:09:38.000 That's some of the toughest country in the world.

00:09:41.000 I mean, it's brushy and ice and nasty.

00:09:43.000 And, you know, again, it's not pleasurable to go in there.

00:09:47.000 Like, you have to...

00:09:47.000 To really go into something like that, you have to have a goal or a reason to be in there.

00:09:51.000 It's not like, I'm going to go grind out this miserable brush and, you know, poor, you know, shitty, rainy weather.

00:10:00.000 You just go home.

00:10:00.000 Yeah, you're just like, why would you be there?

00:10:01.000 Because you go there because you want to see, you know, is this going to test me?

00:10:05.000 And you want to see if you can...

00:10:07.000 Match with us with this animal and you know you want to go see if you're up for the challenge I mean that's what we've been doing for is the world's oldest and greatest sport I mean if you're not you know you're either hunter or a berry picker yeah and the the level of intensity that's involved in that moment when you actually try to take that animal after that incredible hike in after 37 miles of risking your life to get to that point and then that moments there just the extreme amount of pressure and intensity involved in that moment That,

00:10:37.000 to me, is what defines the real challenge, the ultimate challenge of hunting.

00:10:43.000 And this idea that it's a bunch of people that like killing animals, or it's a bunch of fat yahoos that sit around drinking beer. 0.99

00:10:50.000 No, there's way more to this thing.

00:10:53.000 This is an insane, really primal pursuit.

00:10:57.000 It is.

00:10:58.000 We always say you're either a hunter or you're, like Brendan mentioned, a berry picker. 1.00

00:11:02.000 It's in our DNA if you're a hunter.

00:11:04.000 And to be able to test that against the toughest conditions, against the hardest animals to hunt in the most remote places is, to me, the ultimate test of being a human being and the ultimate test of being a hunter.

00:11:17.000 And that's what drives me and what we do and why I train you around, why I'm always thinking about gear, about food, about weight, about how I can improve from what I learned on last year's hunt to this coming season's.

00:11:30.000 In preparation of it is, A, it's fun.

00:11:33.000 I love it.

00:11:34.000 I live it and breathe it.

00:11:35.000 And it's challenging.

00:11:37.000 It's really challenging.

00:11:38.000 Well, it unfolded for me, and it still continues to do so, because I've only been doing it for four years.

00:11:44.000 I mean, Rinelli got me involved, and he took me out to Montana in 2012. And, you know, I was like, oh, yeah, this is going to be interesting.

00:11:51.000 Let's see what this is all about.

00:11:52.000 Because I had watched shows and I had read some stuff about it.

00:11:55.000 But one of the things that he said, he's like, man, there's a steep learning curve to this.

00:11:59.000 There's a steep learning curve and it goes long.

00:12:01.000 And I was like, well, how long can it go? 1.00

00:12:02.000 You fucking find an animal, you shoot it, you kill it, you eat it. 1.00

00:12:05.000 What's so hard? 1.00

00:12:06.000 But then as you get into it, you realize.

00:12:08.000 And then, of course, bow hunting, which is the most difficult of the most difficult pursuits.

00:12:12.000 It is.

00:12:13.000 And as you get into it, you realize like, oh, this is like some crazy puzzle.

00:12:18.000 It's like some crazy challenge that you have to figure out that also involves a way to procure your food.

00:12:23.000 It does.

00:12:24.000 And it's a skill set you never quit learning on.

00:12:27.000 Every time you go out, I learn something new.

00:12:29.000 Yeah, there's a natural progression you go through.

00:12:32.000 I mean, it's like you're just excited to be there.

00:12:34.000 Right.

00:12:35.000 And then you see it with people you take out for the first time.

00:12:39.000 They're just like, oh, kind of what's going on here?

00:12:41.000 And then all of a sudden they get a little click and it's like, I want to get one.

00:12:47.000 That's usually a couple years.

00:12:49.000 I want to get a nicer one than the one I got last time.

00:12:52.000 I want to do something a little more challenging.

00:12:54.000 It just keeps progressing until you get wherever it ends.

00:13:00.000 You're Hunting the toughest animals, the biggest animals, the oldest animals in the toughest conditions, and being successful.

00:13:07.000 A lot of people won't get there, but it's always a challenge.

00:13:11.000 It's something that never gets old.

00:13:13.000 It's comparable to any athletic event, only you can do it for your whole life.

00:13:19.000 There's lots of stuff you do, athletic and growing up or whatever, but it doesn't really translate.

00:13:25.000 I'm a college wrestler.

00:13:27.000 That doesn't translate that well to the rest of your life.

00:13:30.000 If you're that dude down there at the intramural wrestling, you've missed.

00:13:35.000 Hunting is one thing that is just throughout your entire life, depending on where you're at, you can always continue to learn and pursue it.

00:13:44.000 Sometimes you don't have a ton of time, you can do a short hunt.

00:13:47.000 Sometimes things are going well, you can do something that's an epic adventure, but it's always a challenge.

00:13:53.000 It never gets easy.

00:13:54.000 The animal you killed last time does not care.

00:13:58.000 The new animal you're hunting does not care what you got last time.

00:14:02.000 You have to go out, you gotta be sharp every single time.

00:14:05.000 Yeah, and everything has to be done right every single time. 0.96

00:14:08.000 And what I like about guys like you two is you take two dudes like yourselves who are both like real goal-oriented savages and you put together a company like this that pursues that one ultimate experience and says, what is the best shit that we can make? 0.90

00:14:23.000 What is the best way we can pursue this? 0.96

00:14:25.000 We do.

00:14:26.000 And that's why I built Kuyu the way I did.

00:14:29.000 Having learned from Sitka selling to retailers the limits of what we can produce.

00:14:32.000 And I was super frustrated, the fact that I was walking away from the best materials and walking away from the best innovations.

00:14:39.000 And when we sold that company to Gore-Tex, I had the freedom to go start something new and to eliminate the retailer so I could go build a business platform specifically so I could go out and take these amazing materials, amazing designs to market that I couldn't do before and get them to market through this brand,

00:14:57.000 Cuyo, which has made all the difference.

00:14:59.000 Well, isn't it interesting that this has all happened at the same time where the internet has kind of exploded in this way that people are doing a massive amount of shopping online.

00:15:08.000 I mean, I have one of those mailboxes where they get your packages for the company, and when I used them 10 years ago, I'd get a package every couple days or something like that.

00:15:19.000 Now, every time I go, there's stacks and boxes and shit, because I do all my shopping online.

00:15:24.000 Everyone does now. 0.87

00:15:25.000 It's a crazy thing how that's happened for you guys, like right as your company started was right at the same time.

00:15:32.000 It's like you caught that wave right at the crest.

00:15:35.000 When I look back, it's like we orchestrated it.

00:15:38.000 And timed it perfect and we could see the future.

00:15:41.000 I could see the downfall.

00:15:43.000 He called it.

00:15:43.000 I mean, Brent and I talked about it.

00:15:45.000 There's a problem with retail.

00:15:47.000 When you can't produce the best products possible for your customers because they can't sell it, they can't add the value any longer because all they're offering is price and selection.

00:15:54.000 So price wins in a sea of selection with no one there to explain why a new product is so much better than the old product.

00:16:01.000 There's a problem.

00:16:02.000 And I saw it coming.

00:16:04.000 And now you see it getting exacerbated every day with new reports about retailers failing, malls going out of business.

00:16:11.000 Retail is in big, big trouble.

00:16:13.000 Amazon's made that happen faster. 0.99

00:16:16.000 The internet's made it happen.

00:16:17.000 And it's all looking back with Kuyu.

00:16:19.000 Timing was it's everything. 0.82

00:16:21.000 I mean as you know with business You know a lot of it is timing luck and be in the right place at the right time with the right concepts and ideas And we we totally nailed it We kind of came in at the exact same time with on it that you guys did with Kuyu and with the same exact model Selling directly to people getting the very best shit you can possibly get.

00:16:40.000 What is the like forget about cost?

00:16:42.000 What is the best most most nutrient dense foods most nutrient dense supplements Let's figure out a way to get the best stuff.

00:16:49.000 Find who's got the best protein powder.

00:16:52.000 Who's got the best?

00:16:53.000 Well, it's cost prohibitive because of this and retail gets marked up.

00:16:56.000 Exactly.

00:16:56.000 That's the issue, right?

00:16:57.000 When you sell something to a retailer like a Cabela's or something like that, they tack on a bunch of money.

00:17:04.000 A ton.

00:17:04.000 A ton, right?

00:17:05.000 They make a lot more money than we did.

00:17:07.000 100%.

00:17:07.000 More money than you guys did?

00:17:09.000 No, no.

00:17:09.000 I mean, they tack on 100%.

00:17:10.000 100%.

00:17:11.000 So a jacket that I'd produce for 100, I'd sell to Cabela's for 200, they'd sell it to you for 400 bucks.

00:17:17.000 Wow.

00:17:17.000 For putting on a coat hanger and throwing it on a rack.

00:17:20.000 Makes it convenient, you know, if you're like in a place and you need a jacket and you left your jacket at home, but it's a faulty model.

00:17:27.000 It doesn't make sense.

00:17:29.000 If you're a guy like you that does research and knows exactly what he wants and you can put a tape measure on yourself and know how big you are.

00:17:35.000 I mean, I'm roughly an XL and you could save yourself money and get a better product.

00:17:41.000 It's a no-brainer.

00:17:42.000 Well, also, the amount of research that you can do.

00:17:45.000 Like, if you go to a store and you talk to the guy that's behind the counter, you know how many times I've talked to people?

00:17:50.000 Like, you go to a place that sells car parts or something like that, and you ask a guy a question, and he says something that's totally wrong.

00:17:56.000 You're like, well, I know that's not right. 0.92

00:17:58.000 If you don't know that, how the fuck do you know where this goes? 0.98

00:18:01.000 Totally. 0.98

00:18:02.000 Yeah, I mean, you have to be someone who's, like, deeply, deeply involved in the product to be able to explain it to someone who becomes obsessed.

00:18:09.000 Exactly.

00:18:10.000 Like, if someone is, like, your packs, the way you guys engineer the carbon frame of your packs, like, I spent, like, a fucking hour and a half the other night watching videos of how you guys make packs.

00:18:18.000 Isn't it cool?

00:18:19.000 Yeah.

00:18:19.000 The first thing he said right off the bat is, like, we're going to pull the curtain back.

00:18:23.000 I'm going to tell everybody what everybody's been afraid to tell everybody.

00:18:27.000 If...

00:18:28.000 If you educate the person to know what they're looking at, and you're building the best stuff, they'll end up back here.

00:18:34.000 No one had ever said, here's what fabrics we're using, here's where we're getting it, here's our factory, here's what we're doing.

00:18:40.000 Competitors, are people going to seal it?

00:18:42.000 I don't care.

00:18:43.000 You build the best stuff, and you sell it at a good value for what you have to.

00:18:49.000 The whole transparency thing has been incredible to watch.

00:18:52.000 Being direct, where you can communicate directly with your customers, as you know.

00:18:56.000 It's so frickin' powerful, and they love it.

00:18:59.000 And we're able to build so much trust.

00:19:02.000 I mean, I started blogging about Kuyu 18 months before it ever launched.

00:19:06.000 I talked about the fabrics, materials, the factories, the process of building a company.

00:19:10.000 And I really did it just to keep my name associated with the next brand.

00:19:14.000 As I left and transitioned out of Sitka, I had no idea what it would create.

00:19:19.000 And it created this massive following.

00:19:20.000 People started engaging with me and asking me questions, and I was...

00:19:24.000 Listening to their suggestions on products and educating them on what great fabrics, what great design was, and they just ate it up.

00:19:33.000 And the consumer loves it.

00:19:35.000 The retailer wasn't giving it to them any longer.

00:19:37.000 You know, back in the day, I grew up working in an archery shop in Orange, California, from Bob Fromm, who's a really, really amazing archery shop owner.

00:19:45.000 And he was the guy, right?

00:19:46.000 I mean, you walked in and said, Bob, what's the latest, greatest stuff?

00:19:48.000 And he could tell you all about it.

00:19:50.000 You go to Cabela's now, Like you were saying, the guy on the floor has no clue.

00:19:55.000 The customer knows more than the retailer now.

00:19:58.000 And by taking with Kuyu and going directly to that customer and giving them all that information, giving them the power to make the decision, they ate it up.

00:20:07.000 And then being able to involve them through this process, They just build a ton of trust with you.

00:20:13.000 It's like they understand the brand, they understand you, they understand how you think and why you're making those decisions, and then they trust you.

00:20:19.000 And once you have the consumer's trust and you don't break it, you can really build a brand off of that now.

00:20:25.000 Well, a guy like me who loves to geek out on shit too, who gets obsessed with things, that's what I love, that I can go and watch all these videos and read all this stuff about all the different engineering that's involved in creating your products, and when I do that, it gets people more excited.

00:20:39.000 That's why I think it was a brilliant move to blog about it in between the time of building the company. 0.96

00:20:43.000 It was.

00:20:44.000 I mean, I look back now and it's like I had a blueprint on how to build a company today when we did that.

00:20:48.000 I look back and read the blog posts and And I just go, wow, I can't believe I actually did that without really knowing what I was doing, because it seems like I executed it so perfectly.

00:20:57.000 And I was just following my gut and interacting with the customers, and it was.

00:21:01.000 It was so, so powerful and such a big thing, because as I built this business model, which was the first of its kind in this industry, and even the outdoor market, people told me, cool idea, but...

00:21:13.000 How are they going to find you?

00:21:14.000 How are they going to trust you to buy your product to begin with?

00:21:16.000 How are you going to get customers soon enough so you don't go out of business and run out of money?

00:21:22.000 Because so many companies will go create a website, launch, and no one knows about it.

00:21:27.000 How do you create that interest in advance?

00:21:30.000 And create the demand.

00:21:30.000 Well, you can spend a ton of money.

00:21:32.000 You look at like a Warby Parker or a Hairy Shave or Dollar Shave Club.

00:21:36.000 Well, they spend more money than they're bringing in.

00:21:39.000 And they're burning cash like it's going out of style to create demand through high levels of marketing that's very, very expensive.

00:21:45.000 Or you can do it like we did and educate the customer.

00:21:54.000 You guys have this advantage in that hunting, because it's such a difficult pursuit, because it sort of gets in your DNA, you become obsessed with it.

00:22:05.000 And when you become obsessed with it, and you find a company that's also obsessed with making the very best shit possible, and then you guys geek out to such a high level on the videos and on these descriptions of what you're making, then these obsessed people become obsessed with what you're doing.

00:22:18.000 And they go, oh, well, if I'm going to do this right, I've got to do this this way.

00:22:21.000 They do.

00:22:22.000 And it's great.

00:22:24.000 I mean, people we meet and hunters we meet at hunting camp or traveling, I mean, it's amazing to me how much they know about our product.

00:22:34.000 And how much to know about the brand.

00:22:36.000 Like you said, they geek out on it and eat all the little details up, which I love because that's what I geek out on when I'm searching for these amazing fabrics and learning about new technologies and I share it.

00:22:47.000 These people eat it up.

00:22:49.000 They love it.

00:22:49.000 Well, it's really sort of a master class in how to do things the right way, to follow passion, and being obsessed with something, but doing it to the utmost.

00:22:58.000 Because if you do that, then the word gets out.

00:23:00.000 The word gets out, people talk about it, and like I said, I found out about you guys through word of mouth completely.

00:23:04.000 That's it.

00:23:05.000 Well, if you're actually doing it, too.

00:23:06.000 The customers really see that no one else that's running a company, multiple hunts every year, believes in what we're building and takes it to the worst place our customers could ever go and use it.

00:23:25.000 People respect it.

00:23:26.000 They're like, not only that, that's what I want to do, but I know that he's done it, too.

00:23:32.000 We've used that stuff in those places.

00:23:34.000 Well, was it your blog that I read, which blog was it where you guys were sucking water out of the top of a rock?

00:23:40.000 It was one of the blogs for your company, one of the early on blogs.

00:23:43.000 You guys went on a hunt, and you were just talking in depth about all the different, I don't know who it was who wrote it, but it was all Kuyu stuff.

00:23:51.000 We were talking in depth about testing out the products on these really remote backcountry hunts.

00:23:56.000 Yep.

00:23:57.000 Yeah, I mean, it's how we figure out the shortcomings of our product.

00:24:00.000 You can look at all the laboratory data, you can look at all the test results of what that's given back to you, but you really don't know until you put it in the conditions that we put it in.

00:24:10.000 Like Torre, who is my main fabric supplier, is the most innovative Japanese.

00:24:14.000 I mean, they are the bomb as far as technical fabrics go.

00:24:18.000 And this is Japanese?

00:24:19.000 Yeah, the Japanese, by culture, build the best fabrics in the world.

00:24:23.000 What are they putting in them?

00:24:25.000 Because you guys use a lot of synthetics, right?

00:24:27.000 They do.

00:24:28.000 So their quality standards in Japan are much higher than anywhere else in the world.

00:24:33.000 And they have a really high quality standard of the raw material.

00:24:37.000 Then they have a really high quality standard of the actual yarn.

00:24:40.000 And then they've figured out how to make their yarn stretch and recover with no elastic.

00:24:45.000 It's why our stuff is so light.

00:24:47.000 But because of that process and because of their high quality standards, they're incredibly expensive.

00:24:52.000 But the Japanese, just by their nature and their culture, they don't do things that cut corners.

00:24:59.000 You look at the building of a samurai sword is a great example.

00:25:02.000 There's a lot easier ways to build a sword than a samurai does.

00:25:05.000 The samurai sword is built.

00:25:06.000 I mean, it takes a lot of time, a lot of patience, and it's perfect.

00:25:10.000 I got one over there from 1511. So you know it, right?

00:25:13.000 Yeah, that one's sitting down.

00:25:14.000 That's a real one.

00:25:15.000 It's the way Japanese do things.

00:25:16.000 And it's the same way of why they produce such amazing fabrics and materials, and they're continuously pushing the bar as far as innovation, reducing weight.

00:25:23.000 And it's a partner for us that's just amazing.

00:25:25.000 I found Torre.

00:25:27.000 Well, before I started at Kuyu, I tried to build a Torre product line with Sitka, and it was just price prohibitive.

00:25:33.000 I took it to a couple of buyers at Cabela's, went at Shields Sports, and they said, beautiful, way too expensive.

00:25:39.000 So what are they doing to make this stuff so light and, like, it stretches a little bit, and it snaps back, but it's very light.

00:25:48.000 So they have a patent on how they make the yarn.

00:25:50.000 It's called Primeflex Yarn.

00:25:51.000 And if you look under a microscope, it looks like a spring.

00:25:55.000 Right?

00:25:55.000 And so it can stretch out and then recover without any elastic.

00:25:58.000 Everybody else has to put spandex or elastic or lycra in their fabrics.

00:26:02.000 And elastic's super heavy.

00:26:04.000 It holds moisture.

00:26:05.000 And it's also, you know, it stretches and doesn't really recover until you wash it again.

00:26:09.000 If you wear a stretched pair of pants with a lot of elastic, they can kind of sag you after a period of time.

00:26:14.000 You'll notice with ours, They'll fit the exact same way on day 10 as they did on day 1 because of their fabric, because of how they make their yarn that stretches and recover that elastic.

00:26:22.000 So why are they making this fabric, too?

00:26:25.000 It's like, who are these crazy people that are out there, like, super engineering fabric?

00:26:29.000 It's the Japanese.

00:26:30.000 And they'll sell it into a Japanese market.

00:26:33.000 They'll pay for performance.

00:26:35.000 Their pricing on their performance apparel is much higher in Japan.

00:26:38.000 The European market as well for their climbing industry and some of the ski brands run their fabrics as well.

00:26:45.000 But nobody's really introduced their product line like we have in the United States because it's been cost prohibitive up until Kuyu business model came out.

00:26:53.000 So they just decided essentially the same thing that you guys are doing, just figure out what is the best way to do this.

00:27:00.000 That's how they do it, yeah.

00:27:02.000 Tori, as a company, is a Japanese conglomerate, which is pretty typical of Japanese companies, and they're Their base, the start of their company was chemistry.

00:27:12.000 So they're a chemistry-based company that makes chemicals and make carbon fiber.

00:27:16.000 But it's chemistry that starts with everything they do and understanding how everything is produced and made.

00:27:23.000 And it's that foundation that allows them to put out these amazing innovations, to figure out nanotechnology and how to waterproof a downfeather, how to make membranes that breathe two and a half times that of Gore-Tex and still stretch and recover and are more durable.

00:27:36.000 It's that foundation of who Torrey is, is a chemistry company that allows them to push these innovations out.

00:27:42.000 And then you add in the Japanese culture of perfection and making things correct and having processes that continue to produce high quality products and materials over time.

00:27:52.000 And that's why Torrey is so freaking amazing. 0.99

00:27:56.000 I dork out over shit like this. 0.99

00:27:57.000 Oh, so cool. 0.99

00:27:58.000 I just love when someone's trying to figure out a way to engineer something to the very finest edge.

00:28:05.000 They do.

00:28:05.000 And then what's great about them is always pushing.

00:28:08.000 And so they're coming to us with new fabric innovations, new technologies and innovation.

00:28:14.000 And we're able to find their limits because of our customers and what they use it for.

00:28:18.000 And I'm able to go back to their engineers now because I've developed a really big relationship with them, where they're now their largest customer in the world.

00:28:24.000 And work directly with their team and say, hey guys, your membrane works great except for these certain situations.

00:28:31.000 And so they go and they try to figure out how to rectify that.

00:28:34.000 And they will.

00:28:35.000 Yeah.

00:28:35.000 I mean, they'll commit themselves to fixing issues that we'll find.

00:28:39.000 The laboratory tests say they should never fail and we'll find the limits of it.

00:28:42.000 I mean, not necessarily Brendan and I, but our guides that are spending 200, 250 days of their life every year in the mountains, they'll come back and say, hey, guess what?

00:28:51.000 This happened in this situation.

00:28:54.000 That's rare, but it lets us go back to their development team and say, hey, we found limits on this thing.

00:28:59.000 And they listen.

00:29:00.000 And they go back and try to re-engineer it to figure out how to push the bar further so those failures don't happen.

00:29:07.000 I was listening to you on a podcast recently.

00:29:08.000 You were talking about this new engineering that you're doing on your packs and how you're testing them.

00:29:15.000 So when you have a new product, say if you create a new pack or something like that, before you bring it to market, do you get it to guides?

00:29:23.000 Do you have them tested?

00:29:24.000 Do you test it yourself exclusively?

00:29:26.000 Yeah, so it starts as a process in-house, and we'll put it through certain tests depending on the product, like the new pack frame we just introduced today earlier at Kuyu Live.

00:29:35.000 I don't know if you happen to see my live presentation for a travel flight down here.

00:29:38.000 So you do a live presentation, like a product launch, and you did that today?

00:29:42.000 Yeah, kind of like a keynote thing like Jobs does.

00:29:44.000 That's hilarious. 0.99

00:29:45.000 Who the fuck's doing that with hunting? 0.99

00:29:46.000 Nobody. 1.00

00:29:48.000 You guys are savages. 0.99

00:29:49.000 Not doing it well. 0.98

00:29:49.000 That's why I'm excited about this. 0.98

00:29:51.000 Not doing it well.

00:29:53.000 So you have this product launch.

00:29:57.000 So what did you launch?

00:29:59.000 What is it?

00:29:59.000 Well, we introduced a new carbon fiber technology that just came out on the market a couple years ago.

00:30:04.000 Introduced as far as ability to start developing product with a new fiber technology called Spread Toe Carbon Fiber.

00:30:10.000 You'll love this because you geek out on stuff like this.

00:30:13.000 So carbon fiber, traditionally, the fibers are put into yarn, right?

00:30:17.000 So they take each individual carbon fiber, group them together and make a yarn.

00:30:21.000 Those yarns are then woven into fabric.

00:30:23.000 It's what you see of typical carbon fiber look, right?

00:30:26.000 The woven look you see on carbon fiber.

00:30:29.000 What spread toe is, instead of round fibers, they've figured out that if you flatten the fibers out, so instead of being round, they're flat, and instead of weaving them, they lay them next to each other and then sew.

00:30:40.000 They run sew lines across it, which you can see in our new frame.

00:30:43.000 And by doing so, when you mold it into a product, because that fiber is now completely flat And it's running the length of the product, it's much stiffer and stronger than if you weave it and the fiber has to go up and over other fibers.

00:31:00.000 It's not as stiff, not as strong in the performance level.

00:31:03.000 You give up quite a bit compared to spread toe.

00:31:06.000 So spread toe is all directional fibers and then what we've done in our frame is we now can determine exactly how many fibers run from the top of the frame to the bottom of the frame.

00:31:16.000 You count the fibers?

00:31:17.000 Of course.

00:31:20.000 And then lay in on a 45 how much stiffness we want and flex we want on the horizontal axis.

00:31:27.000 So if you want our packs, you'll notice that it carries a load really well because of the vertical stiffness, but it's also comfortable like an internal pack because of how much fiber we have running on the horizontal axis that controls that flex.

00:31:40.000 So you want to have a certain amount of flex?

00:31:43.000 Yes.

00:31:43.000 Have to.

00:31:44.000 But you've got to figure out what that amount is, and the way to figure that out is by testing.

00:31:49.000 We went through 18 versions of our frame to get to where the formula is that we now reintroduced today. 0.80

00:31:54.000 That's fucking hilarious. 0.87

00:31:55.000 Who does that? 0.99

00:31:56.000 I do.

00:31:56.000 Working with our carbon fiber engineers and with our development team, Sean, in our office.

00:32:01.000 Is there any other company that's going through 18 different versions of a carbon fiber frame in order to figure out?

00:32:06.000 We're the only one in the world that produces one, so it's probably just us.

00:32:10.000 We've got a patent on our frame design.

00:32:12.000 Now, I know what carbon fiber is, but I don't know what carbon fiber is.

00:32:16.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:32:16.000 Like, my car has...

00:32:18.000 Oh, look at this, Jamie.

00:32:19.000 You're on the ball.

00:32:20.000 Dude, killing it.

00:32:21.000 Jamie's always on the ball. 1.00

00:32:23.000 So it's a cloth.

00:32:24.000 I mean, it's soft, it's pliable.

00:32:26.000 How does it be... 0.98

00:32:27.000 I have a Porsche 911 GT3 RS that has a carbon fiber rear wing, and I'm always like, it looks badass, but what the fuck is that?

00:32:35.000 You lay it down as a fiber, and then you put epoxy in it, and that's what connects it.

00:32:39.000 So the epoxy, so it starts out as a carbon cloth.

00:32:43.000 It is.

00:32:43.000 It's pure cloth.

00:32:44.000 You feel it flexes, moves just like a cloth.

00:32:47.000 Okay, here it is.

00:32:48.000 This is what it looks as a fabric.

00:32:50.000 So that's spread toe there in a bi-directional format.

00:32:53.000 And then from there you turn that somehow or another into this really hard stuff with...

00:33:00.000 A heat activated resin.

00:33:02.000 So you saw, if you go back to the mold with the frame we're laying in there, right there, so we're laying that into a mold.

00:33:11.000 So we have a bottom mold, it's all aluminum cut, and a top mold, and we lay that fiber in, and then what he's doing is applying the resin.

00:33:17.000 And then we'll put the top mold on top, and then we add a ton of pressure.

00:33:21.000 I forget how many thousands of pounds of pressure gets put on top of it, and add heat and time.

00:33:26.000 And over, I think it takes a little over an hour, we will cure that mold or that resin into an actual part.

00:33:35.000 And that becomes our frame.

00:33:37.000 And what is the advantage of that over, say, any other very stiff or durable material?

00:33:43.000 It's half the weight of aluminum.

00:33:45.000 It's twice as strong as steel.

00:33:48.000 Twice as strong as steel?

00:33:49.000 It is.

00:33:50.000 It's amazing.

00:33:50.000 It's an amazing material.

00:33:52.000 And then also how we engineer the mold.

00:33:55.000 And a big part of the engineering process of this is understanding how far apart you separate the fibers create stiffness.

00:34:03.000 So we have foam.

00:34:04.000 In between the carbon fibers and the center portion of the frame.

00:34:08.000 That foam creates what they call modulus, which is separation of the fibers.

00:34:14.000 And that modulus creates the overall stiffness within the center portion of our frame.

00:34:18.000 And then how much of that we have within the frame determines how much flex, stiffness, and then also where we're putting the fibers and how many.

00:34:26.000 So there's a lot to it.

00:34:28.000 The weak point of carbon is the epoxy.

00:34:31.000 The carbon is the strongest part.

00:34:32.000 And so the new spread toe, what it does is it makes it tighter, smaller, less epoxy.

00:34:39.000 Yeah.

00:34:39.000 And so what we got out of spread toe, which we just introduced, for no weight penalty, we now have a frame that's five times stiffer and stronger than what we had previous, which is still a really good performing product.

00:34:50.000 And we just got five times better.

00:34:52.000 That's insane.

00:34:53.000 Isn't it?

00:34:54.000 So when you say five times stiffer and stronger, how do you know?

00:34:57.000 Is there a too stiff?

00:34:59.000 Or is it not a stiffness issue, it's a flex issue?

00:35:01.000 Is there a difference there?

00:35:04.000 There is.

00:35:05.000 And it's a challenge, right?

00:35:06.000 It's finding that perfect balance.

00:35:08.000 And you can do that with carbon.

00:35:09.000 You can't do that with a steel or aluminum frame pack.

00:35:13.000 And you really can't do that with any other pack frame design, which is usually some sort of plastic sheeting with aluminum stays put in.

00:35:21.000 The flex is kind of there.

00:35:22.000 You can add more aluminum stays, but then...

00:35:23.000 What is an aluminum stay?

00:35:26.000 For people that are listening to this, they're probably not going to understand what we're saying.

00:35:28.000 It's an aluminum bar, essentially.

00:35:30.000 Which you can kind of mold in a curve or whatever.

00:35:33.000 It's sewn to a piece of plastic, shoved down the back part of an internal frame backpack.

00:35:38.000 And it's to add some sort of support?

00:35:40.000 Stiffness.

00:35:41.000 Stiffness.

00:35:41.000 Rigidity.

00:35:42.000 It's what will pull the weight off somebody's shoulders.

00:35:44.000 It will help carry that load versus just a duffel bag strapped to your back, which is uncomfortable, as you know.

00:35:50.000 Well, that's where the interesting aspect of the engineering comes in when it comes to packs, because the same weight with a different pack feels different.

00:35:58.000 Totally different.

00:35:58.000 And that's something I think a lot of people are not aware of.

00:36:01.000 Like, you think, oh, if you're carrying 100 pounds of your back, you're carrying 100 pounds of your back.

00:36:04.000 No.

00:36:05.000 No.

00:36:05.000 No, it's dependent entirely upon the ergonomics, how it sets on your body.

00:36:10.000 It does, and geometry of how that load is transferred onto your back and the frame and balancing it.

00:36:14.000 There's a lot to it.

00:36:16.000 And, you know, in the past, before our frame came to market, you either had really stiff frames with external frame packs, metal or aluminum, and then you had this internal frame, which was really comfortable until you had to put weight in it, and then it wouldn't be stiff enough and it would end up putting a lot of pressure and weight on your shoulders and your hips.

00:36:35.000 So, how do you engineer that?

00:36:37.000 Do you have to try it out?

00:36:38.000 Do you have to, like, take one of these packs and wear it on a long backcountry hunt and then say, okay, here's some...

00:36:43.000 I got a little bit too much weight on my shoulder or a little bit too much weight on my hip?

00:36:46.000 Or how do you discern?

00:36:49.000 It's essentially that.

00:36:50.000 I do a lot of workouts with weight on my back in a pack on a treadmill.

00:36:55.000 So, I spend a ton of time in our packs with various weights.

00:36:59.000 And we do that.

00:37:01.000 A lot of guys in our office do, as well as my pack developer Sean and Brendan.

00:37:07.000 Once we feel like we're really close, we then ship them out to Brendan's guys, a bunch of guides, and say, test it for us.

00:37:14.000 Put it through your world and what you're using it for.

00:37:17.000 I mean, one of the challenges we have with our industry and backpacks is this huge, as you know, this huge swing of weight.

00:37:25.000 Yeah.

00:37:26.000 Because once we get something down, we've got to get all that out.

00:37:28.000 So we're going to go from maybe packing them with 50 or 60 pound pack to all of a sudden now you've got a 100 plus pound load and you need to manage that.

00:37:34.000 So how do you get a pack that can do both?

00:37:36.000 Be comfortable with lighter weights and still have the ability to carry heavy weights.

00:37:41.000 It's an engineering problem.

00:37:42.000 And it's also an engineering problem that's handled a bunch of different ways.

00:37:46.000 Some people pack it inside the bag.

00:37:48.000 Some people, the pack separates from the frame.

00:37:51.000 You pack the meat to your body and then put the pack, the rest of the pack, strap that down on top of the frame.

00:37:56.000 How do you decide how to handle that?

00:37:58.000 Just trial and error as well?

00:37:59.000 Well, you want the weight closest to your back.

00:38:01.000 The closer you can get, the better it is.

00:38:03.000 And is it the closest you can get it flatter to your back as well?

00:38:07.000 You don't want it bulging out, right?

00:38:10.000 If you have a large...

00:38:12.000 If you have a hundred pounds and it's sitting in a two-foot square at the lower part of your back, that's not nearly as good as like flattened out to six inches and going over the entire surface of your back.

00:38:21.000 Exactly.

00:38:21.000 You want to spread that up and down the frame as close to the frame of your back as possible.

00:38:25.000 And where do you make it sit on your shoulders?

00:38:28.000 How are you strapping it in to make sure that it's in the right place?

00:38:32.000 Or you want to carry the majority with your hips.

00:38:35.000 So, I mean, you start at the waist, put it all in, and then shoulder straps, all that kind of stuff, and stand up, and then your load lifters and all the way up.

00:38:42.000 I mean, it's an individual thing, how it fits, but you want to start with, I mean, your hips are your strongest, your center of gravity.

00:38:49.000 That's where you want the majority of the weight to be carried as close as you can.

00:38:52.000 And this is all trial and error stuff that's been done through mountaineering, through all these different guys that are going on these long backpack hikes?

00:38:59.000 Yeah, it is.

00:39:00.000 And then it's fit.

00:39:01.000 And also, I mean, it's critical that you have a pack that fits correctly.

00:39:04.000 Most people have a pack that isn't set up correct.

00:39:08.000 And we found that with our packs, they're really easy to adjust the shoulder straps so we can get a perfect fit for each customer.

00:39:14.000 And we put an instructional video out there of making sure the geometry from your load lifters, which are the straps that come off the top of the pack down to your shoulder straps, that geometry is critical that it's perfect.

00:39:26.000 It has to be at a 45 degree angle and that will help take that load off your shoulders and transfer to your hips and help you manage that weight comfortably over a long period of time.

00:39:33.000 So you need geometry.

00:39:35.000 You need a triangle to set up to make sure.

00:39:39.000 This is where the whole bubba thing doesn't come in real well for our sport. 1.00

00:39:41.000 Exactly!

00:39:42.000 There's a lot to it.

00:39:44.000 It starts at mathematics with the frame and designs and CAD and CNC machines and all that and the math and all through it and then it goes all the way through and you build it and then all of a sudden it requires testing and taking it in real life settings and people vary on what they like.

00:40:01.000 I mean there's some guys like to carry Things a certain way.

00:40:04.000 Some people like fit.

00:40:05.000 Some guys like their pack way up high.

00:40:07.000 I've fitted guys that like them way up.

00:40:09.000 You can only know by testing it, by doing it, by carrying some weight.

00:40:16.000 And how many different products are you individually overseeing?

00:40:20.000 See, that's the most daunting aspect of it, because you've got all this different shit going on at the same time, and on top of that, you're doing a dozen hunts a year plus, and you're out there in the field. 0.97

00:40:31.000 How the fuck do you find the time to do all this? 0.93

00:40:34.000 You know, it's interesting. 0.98

00:40:35.000 When you do something you love and you have a huge passion for it, I never stop working.

00:40:39.000 I work the second I get up in the morning until the time I go to bed.

00:40:42.000 If I'm not sitting in front of my computer working on stuff specific for Kuyu, I'm thinking about it. 0.98

00:40:47.000 It doesn't feel like it's a lot of work, although I look back now and go, fuck, that is a lot of work. 0.63

00:40:52.000 We put out some amazing products. 0.88

00:40:57.000 It's a process, and it's solving problems through finding materials and technologies and designs that solve those problems.

00:41:03.000 There's a lot to be solved in hunting, fortunately.

00:41:05.000 There's a big gap from some of the other industries that are out there before Sitka and Kuyus come along.

00:41:14.000 So there's a lot of work to do, and we've done a lot to take from where hunting apparel and gear was back in 2004 to where it is today in 2016. It's a massive change.

00:41:24.000 And not everything's as in-depth as the pack all the way from start to finish.

00:41:28.000 I mean, sometimes you have a great fit on something and you have a new fabric.

00:41:31.000 Well, you know, I mean, it's got to get tested.

00:41:33.000 You've got to see how you like it.

00:41:34.000 But it's not like 18 models of, you know, when you get a superior breathing, you know.

00:41:41.000 Membrane, yeah.

00:41:43.000 It's not all as in-depth as that.

00:41:45.000 A lot of it's plugging in the right product to the right fit, and then you have a winner right off the bat.

00:41:51.000 Well, I think what you were saying about the amount of work, this is also like how we were saying that hunting isn't really a sport.

00:41:57.000 It gets called a sport.

00:41:58.000 It's sort of its own thing.

00:42:00.000 Work is sort of its own thing, too, because you can call it work.

00:42:04.000 But if you love something, it's not really work like showing up at the garbage depot or the garbage dump and picking up cans all day.

00:42:12.000 Plus, you love garbage.

00:42:13.000 I guess you could love garbage. 1.00

00:42:15.000 You could love garbage. 1.00

00:42:15.000 There's some people who probably love being a garbage man. 1.00

00:42:18.000 There's some guy out there screaming, I fucking love garbage! 1.00

00:42:21.000 Kill it in garbage. 1.00

00:42:22.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:42:23.000 But when you find something that you become obsessed with, that becomes a passion, it's a puzzle.

00:42:30.000 It is.

00:42:30.000 It's just like you're doing a game all day, almost.

00:42:34.000 All day.

00:42:34.000 And it's also, in a lot of ways, an art form.

00:42:37.000 I tell you what, brand building to me is fascinating.

00:42:40.000 And it is an art form.

00:42:41.000 And there's no science, there's no blueprint, this is how you build this brand.

00:42:45.000 And...

00:42:46.000 I think it's the most fascinating work I've ever done.

00:42:48.000 It's truly figuring out a craft.

00:42:50.000 Brand building is a craft.

00:42:52.000 Well, it reflects...

00:42:53.000 You never stop learning from it every day.

00:42:55.000 I mean, you live it and breathe it every day.

00:42:56.000 Yeah, it reflects you guys.

00:42:58.000 It does.

00:42:58.000 I mean, that's one of the things that I found interesting about this.

00:43:01.000 You can kind of see when there's someone like you that's at the head of something like this, and you're this driven, focused guy, you kind of see that.

00:43:09.000 When you see the actual brand itself, it reflects you.

00:43:14.000 So this idea of it being work, it's really like a passion project.

00:43:18.000 It is.

00:43:18.000 It truly is.

00:43:20.000 Everything from the product to the brand building to the videos to the imagery.

00:43:24.000 I mean, I've got my hands in everything.

00:43:25.000 And I'm super particular about the way...

00:43:28.000 Our image is presented to the marketplace.

00:43:31.000 I always tell people, I can feel it, I can taste it, I can smell it.

00:43:36.000 Everything with Kuyu.

00:43:37.000 Well, that's one of the beautiful things about having a very small center of operation.

00:43:42.000 It's just you guys deciding how this goes down.

00:43:46.000 You don't have to meet with a giant board of a bunch of different people.

00:43:49.000 You're not a public company.

00:43:52.000 There's nobody there to water down the Cheerios.

00:43:54.000 Does that make sense?

00:43:55.000 It's not a democracy.

00:43:56.000 Water down the Cheerios.

00:43:58.000 I always say every day, it's a dictatorship at Kuyu.

00:44:01.000 It kind of is, and it works well that way.

00:44:05.000 It's interesting because because of our growth and because of our business model, we're approached all the time by private equity investment groups.

00:44:13.000 I'm throwing huge valuations of money at me.

00:44:15.000 When I look at the opportunity, yeah, it's a lot of money, but I don't want to change what we've got.

00:44:21.000 As soon as I bring in outside capital or professionals in looking at the business, they're like, well, you need to professionalize.

00:44:27.000 I'm like, for who?

00:44:29.000 What does that mean?

00:44:30.000 Right.

00:44:30.000 What does professionalize my team?

00:44:32.000 Exactly.

00:44:33.000 Well, you need a CFO, you need a CMO, you need a COO. I'm like, for what?

00:44:38.000 So we can slow down our process?

00:44:40.000 So we can change the culture that's built a really special, unique company?

00:44:43.000 So a bunch of other people give pieces of the pie away?

00:44:46.000 Right?

00:44:46.000 Yeah.

00:44:47.000 It's just such a broken, traditional model as far as growing a business.

00:44:51.000 We're doing it just the opposite.

00:44:52.000 It's the same thing with podcasting.

00:44:54.000 There's a broken model.

00:44:56.000 There's a lot of podcasters today that are joining in with these gigantic networks, and they think that being a part of a network is like being on NBC or being on CBS, which it used to be a big deal back in the day. 0.96

00:45:07.000 Like if you were doing a play, and NBC came along and said, we want to turn that play into a sitcom, you'd be like, we fucking made it! 0.97

00:45:15.000 Woo! 0.99

00:45:15.000 We're in! 0.99

00:45:16.000 But now, if you have a successful podcast and someone comes along and says, hey, we would love you to be a part of our gigantic corporation, you're like, get the fuck out of here. 0.98

00:45:24.000 We've got to run. 0.94

00:45:25.000 We've got to run away from these guys.

00:45:26.000 They're going to ruin everything.

00:45:27.000 And they will.

00:45:28.000 They will.

00:45:28.000 They'll come in.

00:45:29.000 They'll tell you what to do.

00:45:30.000 They'll tell you what you can't do.

00:45:31.000 No more cussing.

00:45:32.000 No more cussing for sure.

00:45:33.000 Yeah.

00:45:33.000 You can't bounce around.

00:45:35.000 You've got to pick your topics.

00:45:36.000 You're way too spaced out. 0.97

00:45:38.000 What does water down the Cheerios even fucking mean? 0.97

00:45:41.000 You certainly can't cover hunting. 0.95

00:45:43.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:45:43.000 That's way too controversial.

00:45:45.000 Certainly not twice a week.

00:45:45.000 Yeah.

00:45:46.000 Yeah.

00:45:47.000 I mean, I had Cam Haynes on on Monday and you guys on this way.

00:45:49.000 I just don't think you should do anything other than what you want to do.

00:45:53.000 I think if you could live the best life, it's like, what actually interests you?

00:45:57.000 What do you actually enjoy doing?

00:45:58.000 Well, do that.

00:45:59.000 Is it possible all the time?

00:46:00.000 No.

00:46:01.000 There's some obligations you're going to have to have.

00:46:03.000 There's family stuff, work stuff, business stuff.

00:46:06.000 There's tough stuff you have to deal with.

00:46:07.000 But do what you want to do the most that you can do it.

00:46:11.000 Absolutely.

00:46:11.000 I always say, if you can be an expert, In something you love, you can find a way to make a living in it.

00:46:17.000 I mean, Brendan's a perfect example.

00:46:18.000 He freaking loves hunting.

00:46:20.000 And he lives it and breathes it, studies it.

00:46:44.000 Look where he is now.

00:46:46.000 Bull down in Schnee's, which is a store on Main Street in Bozeman.

00:46:49.000 I went to the store just to see that bull.

00:46:52.000 I was like, we gotta stop in.

00:46:53.000 I gotta take a look at this thing.

00:46:54.000 And there's this elk that looks like something out of the Lord of the Rings that doesn't even look like a real animal.

00:47:00.000 It's breathtaking. 0.99

00:47:00.000 It's fucking massive! 0.99

00:47:02.000 Isn't it? 0.98

00:47:02.000 I mean, you walk up to that thing and you look at it, and it literally stops you in your tracks. 0.98

00:47:07.000 Explain the weight of the antlers on that thing.

00:47:10.000 So, I mean, it's obviously unusually big.

00:47:12.000 I mean, most elk, given their whole lifespan, will never achieve that.

00:47:16.000 It's a truly special elk.

00:47:18.000 And people, like, it's not just a number, but, I mean, it is a Shaquille O'Neal of elk.

00:47:23.000 That's what it is.

00:47:24.000 It's that rare.

00:47:25.000 And, yeah, the horn, when the skull plate sawed off, it weighed 54 pounds.

00:47:30.000 Jesus.

00:47:30.000 Which is too antler.

00:47:31.000 I mean, it's heavy and, like, unusually big.

00:47:35.000 It's just massive.

00:47:37.000 You know, it was the biggest elk killed in 30 years in the state of Montana.

00:47:41.000 What it looked like when it was alive, right?

00:47:43.000 Insane.

00:47:44.000 How much did it weigh on the hoof, do you think?

00:47:46.000 You know, a big bull elk would be six to seven hundred pounds.

00:47:51.000 I mean, they get thrown a thousand pounds a lot, but, you know, to weigh them, like, there are a few great big bulls that'll weigh a thousand.

00:47:56.000 It was a thousand pounder.

00:47:57.000 He was 12 years old. 0.83

00:47:58.000 You know, he was just a monster, you know.

00:48:01.000 So the Roosevelt Elks are the ones that have the biggest bodies, right? 0.96

00:48:06.000 The Roosevelt elk have by far the biggest bodies, but not the biggest antlers.

00:48:10.000 Right, not the biggest antlers.

00:48:11.000 But how big do their bodies get? 0.96

00:48:13.000 1,200.

00:48:15.000 Really big bulls.

00:48:16.000 I mean, you can see in photos of them, they're just enormous.

00:48:19.000 I mean, they're unusually...

00:48:21.000 Giant, especially really big bull.

00:48:23.000 Not every elk is huge.

00:48:26.000 An old bull who's had good feed and lived a long time and was genetically big to begin with will be really big.

00:48:33.000 They don't all end up huge.

00:48:38.000 Just the ones he hunts.

00:48:40.000 What's a fascinating pursuit, you know, pursuing the apex of the genetics, you know, finding the animal.

00:48:47.000 And it's also one of the things that's important about this, like, the pursuit of hunting is that this animal that you shot was probably, like, how old do you think he was?

00:48:56.000 He was 12 years old.

00:48:57.000 I mean, that is an old, old elk.

00:48:59.000 That's old age in the world of wild beasts.

00:49:03.000 It's the ultimate, I mean, like, when you get to the level where you're consistently killing stuff and You've gotten the point that the ultimate level is to kill the biggest, oldest, most mature, historically significant on the chain of events in history of all the guys that have ever killed elk.

00:49:21.000 Not all elk are going to be huge, but with any animals.

00:49:25.000 When you kill something that's super old, super big, super smart, that is the pinnacle of where your skills have gotten.

00:49:32.000 A lot of people never get there.

00:49:36.000 The biggest factor in doing that and getting to that point is having the time.

00:49:42.000 I spent a decade of my life putting a boot track everywhere you could put one, finding where every elk was in my state and looking for the biggest ones.

00:49:51.000 Like the work, it's consuming.

00:49:53.000 You have to love to do it.

00:49:55.000 It's not fun.

00:49:57.000 You just have to be driven to do it, to want to be able to do it.

00:50:01.000 But the result is fun.

00:50:02.000 I mean, the photo that you sent, you sent me some text messages, photos of that thing on the ground.

00:50:08.000 You see the size of the antlers.

00:50:10.000 No, that's another one.

00:50:11.000 That's another one you shot?

00:50:14.000 That's a pretty big one too, but that's not nearly as big as the one.

00:50:16.000 You want me to send it to you, Jamie?

00:50:17.000 I'll send it to you, Jamie.

00:50:19.000 Should I email it to you?

00:50:25.000 At that point in time, actually, when I killed that elk, I wasn't at the skill set I am now.

00:50:29.000 I mean, I got pretty lucky.

00:50:30.000 That was the third elk I ever killed.

00:50:32.000 Right place at the right time, did the right thing, and just lit a fire in me like, I want to do that more. 0.91

00:50:38.000 That's ridiculous that that was the third elk I ever killed.

00:50:41.000 When I first started talking to Brendan about hunting elk, he would hunt a elk.

00:50:46.000 And that was so different for me.

00:50:47.000 I mean, I was just trying to find a bull to hunt.

00:50:49.000 Any bull.

00:50:50.000 And I would try to get a good one.

00:50:52.000 But Brendan would hunt and find an elk and spend the entire season trying to kill that single elk, which I thought...

00:50:58.000 At least my experience at elk hunting was hard to find that same elk twice that I'd maybe see in the morning, and I would never see it again.

00:51:05.000 Brent had the ability to hunt it down and kill it.

00:51:07.000 Well, it's also the best thing from a conservation standpoint.

00:51:10.000 You're talking about an animal that has spread its genes for at least 10 years, right? 0.73

00:51:15.000 For 10 years, that thing has been spreading those superior genetics, and it's probably been forcing a lot of other males to get the fuck off the mountain.

00:51:22.000 Would me? 0.93

00:51:23.000 Yeah.

00:51:24.000 It's huge.

00:51:25.000 That one did.

00:51:25.000 I never saw.

00:51:26.000 I watched him for...

00:51:27.000 Three days, morning and night, before I killed him, and another bull never came near that thing.

00:51:33.000 That's like Brock Lesnar of Elf.

00:51:34.000 Yeah.

00:51:36.000 Or Alistair Overeem of Elf.

00:51:37.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:51:38.000 Hey, old, like, Overeem.

00:51:41.000 Old Alistair.

00:51:42.000 Yeah, Alistair when he's on the Mexican supplements.

00:51:46.000 Yeah, the new Alistair might be a better fighter, actually.

00:51:49.000 It's interesting.

00:51:50.000 When you see an animal like that, and you realize how difficult it is to reach 12 years of age in the wild with mountain lions, wolves.

00:52:00.000 I mean, Montana, it's like he's just got everything after him.

00:52:03.000 Grizzlies, everything's after him.

00:52:04.000 And to be able to be that smart to get to this position in life, and for you to solve that puzzle, and to get in and shoot that elk, That's one of the things that sort of embodies the really intense difficulty in hunting.

00:52:23.000 It's one of those things where, I mean, it's the ultimate challenge.

00:52:27.000 I mean, once you've, you know, killed a bunch of elk and, you know, I mean, it gets to where it is the ultimate challenge.

00:52:34.000 And you're not always going to win.

00:52:35.000 I don't always get them.

00:52:36.000 I mean, that's the beauty of it.

00:52:37.000 I mean, like, you never get to the point where you're so good.

00:52:40.000 Well, I haven't got to the point where I'm so good where every great big one I get.

00:52:43.000 I mean, I... It's getting there.

00:52:45.000 I'm getting closer.

00:52:48.000 You're learning stuff all the time.

00:52:49.000 It's one of those things nobody can tell you about.

00:52:52.000 I'm basically self-taught.

00:52:54.000 My dad taught me how to read maps.

00:52:57.000 Until you figure out, why is an elk here?

00:53:00.000 What's he doing?

00:53:02.000 Not just wander around like, oh, there's some elk over there.

00:53:05.000 Why is he here?

00:53:06.000 Why would he be here this time of year?

00:53:08.000 What is he doing?

00:53:09.000 Where is he going?

00:53:10.000 What's his next move?

00:53:11.000 I've had bulls where I've hunted where I know what they're gonna do before they do.

00:53:16.000 Literally, I know what that bull was down here, he was doing this, and I was like, I think I know what he's gonna do.

00:53:20.000 And I go, the other direction, come around the other way, and that's what he did.

00:53:24.000 I knew before he was gonna do it.

00:53:26.000 It just comes from watching them spending thousands of hours.

00:53:29.000 Just data chunking.

00:53:31.000 Yeah, and I mean, you see the picture of the great big bulls, and that's great.

00:53:36.000 There he is right there.

00:53:37.000 The time that goes into that, nobody ever sees.

00:53:40.000 They don't see hundreds and hundreds of days in between.

00:53:44.000 Yeah, I was a young guy there, man.

00:53:46.000 22 years old there.

00:53:48.000 It's amazing.

00:53:49.000 Yeah, it is amazing.

00:53:50.000 And when you eat that animal, I mean, the amount of satisfaction that comes from sitting down to a meal that you procured in the most difficult way humanly possible.

00:54:01.000 I mean, you shot that thing with a bow and arrow in the mountains, and now here you are eating it.

00:54:06.000 Twelve yards.

00:54:07.000 Snuck right up on it.

00:54:09.000 Yeah, it's cool.

00:54:11.000 I mean, the thing about trophy hunting that's not understood is, like, it's the ultimate...

00:54:16.000 It's the pinnacle of combining, you know, what you love to do and then this incredible skill set that you're developing to be better than, you know, I'm not saying better than anybody else, but it takes a lot of work.

00:54:26.000 Better than you used to be.

00:54:27.000 Better than you used to be.

00:54:28.000 Continuing to get better and better.

00:54:29.000 Yeah.

00:54:30.000 And, you know, the funny thing to me is always like the thing trophy hunting has got this weird...

00:54:38.000 I eat the whole elk.

00:54:40.000 I love doing it.

00:54:41.000 I love the challenge of it. 0.99

00:54:42.000 I don't shy away from saying I love to kill animals. 1.00

00:54:46.000 I love to hunt them. 0.99

00:54:47.000 I love the challenge of getting the biggest one.

00:54:51.000 I find it the most challenging thing I've ever done.

00:54:54.000 But, you know, I always eat it.

00:54:56.000 I eat everything.

00:54:57.000 And, you know, and I take the hide and the head.

00:55:00.000 I'm using more than most people are.

00:55:01.000 You know, people are like, oh, I just trophy hunting and whatever.

00:55:03.000 Like, hmm.

00:55:05.000 It's the challenge.

00:55:06.000 I mean, the term needs to be changed.

00:55:08.000 It's the challenge of it.

00:55:10.000 Well, the term is kind of screwed up because it's applied to things that people shoot where they don't eat it, which seems to be like a cruelty, like a pursuit, a vain pursuit of going out and shooting lions and shooting things that you're not going to eat.

00:55:24.000 The weird thing about that is I was talking to a guy who was doing an article for the New York Times, and he said, I don't have a problem with hunting as long as you eat it.

00:55:32.000 And I just said, you don't have a problem with hunting.

00:55:35.000 I mean, you legally have to take the meat.

00:55:38.000 I mean, the amount of people that would shoot something and not take the meat is, you know, the same as people that are thieves out on the street.

00:55:46.000 I mean, it's so uncommon.

00:55:47.000 So, like, the perception of, you know, guys just shooting it and, you know, just because 10 years down the road all I have in my garage is the head doesn't mean that I didn't use it.

00:55:55.000 And so the perception, again, against the lowest common denominator guy, you hear about one horrible thing going on or somebody that doesn't take the meat and all of a sudden everybody's lumped into it.

00:56:05.000 I grew up in rural Montana.

00:56:07.000 I never had a beef steak at a restaurant until I was on a recruiting trip in college.

00:56:12.000 I mean, I grew up eating wild game my entire life.

00:56:15.000 My parents never bought meat, ever.

00:56:18.000 That's probably why you're such a good wrestler.

00:56:20.000 Yeah, I guess, right? 1.00

00:56:21.000 Get that fucking pure protein. 1.00

00:56:23.000 Get that wild DNA in your system. 1.00

00:56:25.000 Free-range organic.

00:56:26.000 Yeah, that's the real food.

00:56:28.000 But people, it's like a disconnect.

00:56:30.000 They don't understand, like, oh man, you don't need to do that.

00:56:33.000 It's like, I'm not saying we didn't need to do it.

00:56:36.000 That's just what we did.

00:56:37.000 I mean, I grew up in an area where that's what I ate.

00:56:41.000 Like I said, my parents never bought meat.

00:56:43.000 The perception of hunting today is so screwed up.

00:56:45.000 It is, but it's also because of cities.

00:56:47.000 I mean, one of the things that's made us be able to be so comfortable and have air conditioning is technology and advancement.

00:56:53.000 But it's also allowed us to be completely disconnected from where food comes from.

00:56:57.000 And that's what allows people to stand up on these pedestals and point down at people that they think are doing something wrong when they're responsible for just as much death.

00:57:08.000 They're responsible for more suffering.

00:57:10.000 More suffering, exactly.

00:57:11.000 More suffering than hunters, for sure.

00:57:13.000 Absolutely.

00:57:14.000 But just as much death, too.

00:57:16.000 Totally.

00:57:16.000 And even people that are vegetarians, even people that think by eating vegetables and plants that they're doing no harm.

00:57:23.000 The amount of wildlife habitat displacement that takes place in just growing kale is ridiculous.

00:57:30.000 Totally.

00:57:30.000 And all the pesticides and everything else that goes into it, it's mind-blowing.

00:57:33.000 Bees and fucking rodents and all the different death that is associated with combines and wide-scale grain when you're growing and harvesting grain. 0.98

00:57:45.000 There's so much death involved. 1.00

00:57:47.000 There is.

00:57:47.000 And there's no getting around that.

00:57:48.000 I mean, we are consumers in some sort of a weird way.

00:57:51.000 But to me, the purest pursuit of it Is what you're talking about.

00:57:56.000 Archery, hunting, in the backwoods, in the most difficult environments. 0.98

00:58:01.000 I mean, it is an unbelievably difficult pursuit that somehow or another gets lumped into this idea that it's a bunch of dumb people and they're cruel. 1.00

00:58:10.000 If you're dumb, you're not going to be successful doing that. 1.00

00:58:12.000 If you're lazy, you're not going to be successful. 1.00

00:58:15.000 You're just not.

00:58:16.000 Yeah, I mean, I've been, because of Kuyu, been in New York doing a bunch of media tours over the last year.

00:58:22.000 And to be interviewed by these people that live in a big city that have no...

00:58:27.000 The idea of what hunting is like or what it's about is really mind-blowing to me because it's been such a big part of my life and everyone I'm associated with and friends with typically hunts or understands hunting.

00:58:37.000 Their perception of it is so amazing to me that we would just kill an animal, cut its head off, and leave everything.

00:58:47.000 I don't know anybody that's ever done it. 0.98

00:58:49.000 It's completely illegal.

00:58:51.000 But that's what mainstream media has made out hunting to be.

00:58:55.000 And it's like a mission of mine now to change that perception.

00:58:58.000 And mine as well.

00:58:59.000 It's a lazy perception of it.

00:59:02.000 It's not real.

00:59:03.000 It doesn't happen.

00:59:04.000 Not for real hunting.

00:59:06.000 No.

00:59:07.000 It absolutely just never happens.

00:59:08.000 Yeah, I mean, like this New York Times guy, I was just like, yeah, it's, you know, I took him through like the wanton waste laws and all that.

00:59:14.000 And he was just like, he's like, wow, I mean, you legally have to take it.

00:59:20.000 Like, it's not something that's new.

00:59:21.000 You know, like, it's always been that way.

00:59:23.000 And there is this cool meat movement that's been going on.

00:59:26.000 Yeah.

00:59:26.000 You know, one thing is like, don't get it lost that, you know, guys in the 60s, 70s, all, you know, and since, you know, aside from market hunting back in the day, which isn't real hunting, it was just extermination for, but I mean, it's, you know, people hunt, and they consume what they eat, like anything else,

00:59:42.000 just like eating, you know, bread or anything else.

00:59:45.000 I mean, you have, you know, it's like, you know, you got studs in your house, they came from a tree.

00:59:51.000 It's where they came from.

00:59:52.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:59:54.000 I always say if we want to fix the health problems in the United States, make everybody hunt.

00:59:58.000 The problem is there's not enough animals.

01:00:00.000 There's too many people and not enough animals.

01:00:01.000 No, I know, but it's like obesity, overweight, you know, poor diet.

01:00:05.000 Right.

01:00:05.000 Make them all hunters.

01:00:06.000 That all goes away.

01:00:07.000 It does all go away.

01:00:08.000 Because they have to live a lifestyle to actually harvest an animal.

01:00:10.000 Yeah.

01:00:11.000 To change everything.

01:00:12.000 And hunting, you know, I mean, God, it's been in our DNA for two million years.

01:00:14.000 Yeah.

01:00:15.000 And it's the last hundred that people have had an issue with it.

01:00:16.000 Not actually the last 50. Yeah, well, it's when you see things like the Cecil the lion thing, and then everybody gets up in arms about hunting, and it just becomes this really distorted version of what it actually is.

01:00:29.000 Yeah, but the stuff with Cecil, that's not even true.

01:00:31.000 I mean, he wasn't living full-time in the park.

01:00:35.000 There's a new thing that just came out in the hunting report about the whole background of it.

01:00:39.000 I mean, there's a lot more to it than that.

01:00:41.000 And it's all how it's said, too.

01:00:44.000 It's like...

01:00:44.000 Oh, the guy killed Cecil Lyon, who's this super old male who had been kicked out of the Pride, apparently, and the whole thing with his brothers and the family and all that stuff.

01:00:54.000 Yeah, it's hilarious.

01:00:54.000 And at the end of the day, it's like, oh, you know, we shot him and beheaded him.

01:00:57.000 It's like, well, hey, that burger you got at McDonald's, guess what? 0.97

01:00:59.000 It died and got beheaded.

01:01:01.000 It's all how you word it.

01:01:02.000 You could also say it was processed.

01:01:03.000 I mean, like, just beheaded is just a horrible thing.

01:01:06.000 It's like, yeah, everything that gets killed and processed gets...

01:01:09.000 Beheaded but don't you think that part of the reason why people get upset about lions is because people generally don't eat lions So when someone says that someone goes and shoots a line like why would you shoot this beautiful rare majestic animal just so you could stick it on your wall and And just think you're a badass because you've got this thing that could kill you if you didn't have a weapon and you got it on your wall now Well,

01:01:32.000 I mean, it comes down to, like, predators need to be controlled.

01:01:35.000 I mean, it's not one of those things that's pretty and people really love to hear that, but at the end of the day, it is true.

01:01:40.000 I mean, like, you know, you were just down where I grew up.

01:01:43.000 I grew up just north of the greater Yellowstone Elkhard, you know, between Gardner and Livingston.

01:01:48.000 That's where I grew up.

01:01:49.000 And when I was in high school, there was 19,000 elk in that herd.

01:01:52.000 You go down there in wintertime and see 1,500 bulls.

01:01:55.000 I mean, it was amazing.

01:01:56.000 And they're down to 2,000 to 3,000 now because of the reintroduction of the wolf.

01:02:00.000 You have to control predators.

01:02:03.000 Anywhere, wherever they're at.

01:02:05.000 It's insane to think that we don't exist and these houses and fences and highways and stuff are not there and that you can just turn something loose and just let it run its course.

01:02:16.000 People are even appalled by the natural core.

01:02:20.000 A young lion take over the pride and Cecil gets chomped and destroyed by two other younger lions that came in and got him.

01:02:27.000 People don't even like seeing that.

01:02:29.000 That's just how it happens.

01:02:30.000 It's just detachment.

01:02:31.000 Just detachment from the actual cycle of life.

01:02:33.000 It is.

01:02:34.000 Yeah.

01:02:34.000 And the other thing that's going on is that people love to broadcast how horrible...

01:02:41.000 The people are that hunt these things and how these lions are, they need to be preserved and so important.

01:02:47.000 Like Leonardo DiCaprio had something on his Instagram page the other day where it was like an anniversary of the death of Cecil and he was talking about how, you know, few of these animals that are left, they have to be protected.

01:03:00.000 Very conveniently ignored is the fact that Zimbabwe is going to kill 200 lions now because no one's going over there to hunt those lions.

01:03:08.000 I'm just going to talk about that.

01:03:09.000 So there's more of them, so they're decimating the ungulate population, so now they're going to kill them and make no money. 1.00

01:03:14.000 So they're going to lose out on millions of dollars in revenue.

01:03:16.000 What would you expect from a guy that got attacked by a CGI bear?

01:03:21.000 I mean, he doesn't live in reality anyway.

01:03:23.000 A CGI bearer.

01:03:24.000 He probably didn't even write it. 1.00

01:03:25.000 He's probably doing coke and banging hookers and just called his assistant. 0.73

01:03:28.000 Hey man, put something eco on my page. 0.97

01:03:30.000 Yeah, CECL's anniversary.

01:03:33.000 Yeah, now they can't.

01:03:34.000 Now that's a ton of money they could generate to shoot those. 0.95

01:03:36.000 And I know a guy. 0.98

01:03:37.000 I mean, I know Booking.

01:03:38.000 I talk to him all the time.

01:03:39.000 There's guys.

01:03:39.000 Nobody will touch that with a 10-foot pole.

01:03:41.000 It's a great hunt.

01:03:42.000 It's a cool thing to go see.

01:03:44.000 They do need to be managed.

01:03:45.000 I mean, you know, like a lot of things.

01:03:47.000 It just is what it is.

01:03:49.000 It's very inconvenient when you look at the actual facts of hunting over there.

01:03:54.000 Even hunting, you know, just quote-unquote, for trophies.

01:03:57.000 That is where they get a massive amount of their revenue.

01:04:00.000 It feeds a lot of the people that are over there.

01:04:02.000 It makes a huge impact on their economy.

01:04:04.000 And a lot of people don't like that, but I urge people to watch the Louis Theroux documentary about his trip to Africa, where he spent several weeks in this African hunting camp.

01:04:15.000 And, you know, it's the same thing.

01:04:16.000 It was like a high fence operation where they had lions and they were throwing, like, calves over the fence to feed these lions.

01:04:23.000 And there's, like, two fences separating him from the lions.

01:04:25.000 And he got to see, like, in depth what's going on.

01:04:28.000 He's essentially saying that these animals, the only reason why they're here at all, like, massive amounts of them, is because they're worth something to people to come over.

01:04:37.000 And if it wasn't, they're like, this place is so poor and so crazy that these animals would have been wiped out.

01:04:44.000 And they were on the verge just a couple of decades ago before they introduced hunting.

01:04:48.000 So it's such a catch-22 because they have more animals than they've ever had before.

01:04:52.000 But the reason for that is because they're worth something to hunt.

01:04:55.000 Exactly.

01:04:56.000 They're an economic resource.

01:04:57.000 And because of that, they have value, so they're protected.

01:04:59.000 And there's money to protect them.

01:05:01.000 And people get put off by the fact that people enjoy the pursuit.

01:05:04.000 Yeah.

01:05:05.000 And it's one of those things.

01:05:07.000 I have a hard time explaining it to people.

01:05:10.000 You know, I mean, what makes a little kid who, when you're in the yard and there's a bird right there, like some kids, you know, just look at it and some kids want to chase that thing down.

01:05:18.000 And it's like 10,000 years where the genetics that say...

01:05:21.000 Two million, actually.

01:05:22.000 Yeah, you want to do it.

01:05:24.000 Like, this is something that is built in you want to do.

01:05:26.000 I mean, you felt that you didn't grow up hunting.

01:05:28.000 Right.

01:05:28.000 And all of a sudden now you can't.

01:05:31.000 I mean, you think about it every day.

01:05:32.000 That's all you want to do, I'm sure.

01:05:33.000 Yeah.

01:05:34.000 And so to explain that to somebody that doesn't have that, It's really hard.

01:05:39.000 I mean, you know, especially while they're eating a hamburger from their pedestal, telling you how, you know, you shouldn't, you know, kill anything.

01:05:47.000 Yeah.

01:05:47.000 Well, I almost think, I mean, I don't think anybody should be forced to do anything, but I almost think that it would be good for everybody to have to kill something and eat it, if you do eat meat, just to experience it.

01:05:57.000 And, I mean, that's just killing something.

01:05:59.000 But to actually go out and hunt something down and kill it and eat it, I think would...

01:06:04.000 It would open up a lot of doors inside your mind, open up a lot of areas of perception, and give you this real understanding of what it means to consume life.

01:06:16.000 There's a lot to it.

01:06:18.000 It's a very complex thing that's going on when you're eating an animal.

01:06:22.000 A lot to it.

01:06:23.000 It's like you talked about that disconnect.

01:06:24.000 I mean, there is a massive disconnect.

01:06:26.000 Yeah, it's weird.

01:06:27.000 People think just because it's in a package at a grocery store or in a cellophane with a styrofoam thing underneath that it didn't come from an animal or something.

01:06:33.000 Yeah.

01:06:34.000 You should almost have to watch, even if you're not going to do it.

01:06:37.000 You should almost have to be there while they kill the cow and then string it up and then cut it up.

01:06:41.000 How many people have become vegetarians then?

01:06:42.000 Right?

01:06:43.000 Remember that whole cow thing that went on a couple years ago?

01:06:46.000 I think it was in a slaughterhouse down in Southern California and those cows are sick and they're falling over and they got video of it and it got out there about the processing of meat and all these people up in arms about it.

01:06:55.000 I'm like, that's always been that way.

01:06:57.000 Yeah.

01:06:57.000 And it just got public.

01:06:59.000 Right.

01:07:00.000 And people were appalled by it, but that's the reality of beef and industrial food complex versus the animals that we hunt.

01:07:08.000 We're going to have a great life.

01:07:09.000 Most of them, like the animals Brent and I hunt, which are the older ones, they've had a full life and they've had the opportunity to experience things in nature and reproduce and have what an animal's life should be like.

01:07:23.000 We're a cattle or any type of industrial type of food animal like chickens or cows or pigs.

01:07:33.000 It's like living in a concentration camp.

01:07:35.000 It depends on the situation too.

01:07:37.000 My wife's father has a big ranch in eastern Montana You know, raise and process all their own stuff and, you know, like people talk about, you know, like all the beef and meats, horrible and stuff.

01:07:48.000 Not where I come from.

01:07:49.000 I mean, they take really good care of those animals and it's very important and they don't go to the, you know, the giant stockyards and all.

01:07:56.000 It just depends.

01:07:57.000 It's all relative.

01:07:57.000 You got to look at everything as it is, you know.

01:08:00.000 Right.

01:08:00.000 You know, where did that come from?

01:08:01.000 At least you know where it's more connected.

01:08:03.000 Yeah, when people hear about grass-fed beef, one of the big complaints, they go, God, it's so expensive.

01:08:07.000 But yeah, it's not supposed to be that cheap to eat life.

01:08:11.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:08:12.000 You know what I mean? 0.92

01:08:13.000 I mean, a steak can be so cheap, it's ridiculous.

01:08:16.000 You think about the amount of effort that has to go for you to get this $5 steak.

01:08:21.000 The amount of effort.

01:08:22.000 The animal has to grow, it has to be fed, it has to be taken care of, then it has to be slaughtered, cut up, packaged, processed, sent to stores, put on the shelves, and then you go and buy.

01:08:31.000 Like, look at the prices. 0.99

01:08:32.000 Like, oh my god, no shit. 1.00

01:08:34.000 Of course. 1.00

01:08:34.000 You could try doing it yourself and you would value it. 1.00

01:08:36.000 You would realize like, wow, this is actually a pretty good deal.

01:08:39.000 And all the process, it's not all the same either.

01:08:42.000 Like I said, I mean, there's lots of great ranchers that care about what they're doing and do it right and all that stuff.

01:08:47.000 Again, your lowest common denominator.

01:08:49.000 You get a place that's got 70 cows packed into one chute, and people are like, oh my god, we're up in arms about it.

01:08:55.000 It's like, well, that's not the norm on everything either.

01:08:58.000 I think it's good, though, that people are being aware of this, and I think it's good that people are up in arms, because I think there is something really disgusting about factory farming.

01:09:06.000 Undeniably disgusting.

01:09:07.000 And I think the education of people...

01:09:10.000 Getting to understand, like, yeah, this is a system that you're a part of.

01:09:13.000 Even, like, the really hardcore, radical animal activists that, you know, risk their lives and make these crazy fucking videos and get inside slaughterhouses and, you know, violate those ag-gag laws. 0.96

01:09:23.000 I salute them. 0.96

01:09:24.000 I salute them for getting that out there.

01:09:26.000 I do, too.

01:09:27.000 I mean, it shows the other side of it, the bad side of it.

01:09:31.000 People don't get to see it.

01:09:32.000 We shouldn't be shielded from the truth in any way, shape, or form.

01:09:35.000 And that's one of the things that's allowed this factory farm system to get so disgusting, is the fact that people haven't been able to have their input.

01:09:42.000 They haven't been able to see it and protest against it and say, like, hey, you shouldn't be treating living things like this.

01:09:49.000 Totally agree.

01:09:50.000 I mean, that story doesn't get told enough.

01:09:52.000 And I think the reasonable people who love animals and maybe they don't have any desire whatsoever to eat them, those are the people that I think respect the pursuit of hunting and respect the idea that, look, it's not something for everybody, but neither is marathon running,

01:10:08.000 neither is weightlifting, neither is football, jiu-jitsu, anything difficult, wrestling.

01:10:13.000 This is not for everybody.

01:10:15.000 Everybody's not going to do a lot of things that are hard to do.

01:10:17.000 But if you want to procure meat, That's the best way to do it.

01:10:21.000 Couldn't agree more.

01:10:22.000 And everything that goes into it.

01:10:24.000 Yeah.

01:10:25.000 That's what I love about it.

01:10:26.000 Well, I think it's important to spread that.

01:10:28.000 I think that's sort of getting out there as well.

01:10:31.000 There's this anti-meat movement and anti-animal cruelty movement.

01:10:35.000 And I respect that.

01:10:37.000 I understand where they're coming from.

01:10:38.000 Unless you're driving the Lexus with the leather seats.

01:10:41.000 Yeah.

01:10:43.000 I mean, honestly, it's like, you know, you see it all the time, a guy wearing leather shoes and a leather belt, you know, talking about, you know, his impact and how little, you know, being vegan or whatever.

01:10:53.000 It's like, man, that's just, the hypocrisy is insane of people, you know, like living in a house, like how much is...

01:11:00.000 Animal byproduct from from everything you use and it's like well, yeah, but I just had a salad today It's like yeah, that's I mean 50 rabbits when they harvest it It made you feel good, but in reality you're just bullshitting yourself Yeah, but they don't even know they're bullshitting themselves if they if their Perception of what they're doing was accurate then they would have a good point But it's a it's an ignorance to what was actually involved.

01:11:25.000 Yeah, I don't believe in killing anything.

01:11:28.000 It's like Every time you get in your car, man, I mean, the most animal, the most life I've ever taken is every time I take a 500-mile road trip.

01:11:35.000 I mean, and I've got to wipe those things off my window. 0.99

01:11:37.000 I mean, people are like, oh, you can kill the shit out of bugs. 0.90

01:11:41.000 You know, fish or cool or whatever. 0.95

01:11:43.000 It's like, ooh, we've got eyelids involved.

01:11:44.000 Now it's getting weird.

01:11:45.000 It's like, well, where is it?

01:11:47.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:11:48.000 I used to live in Boulder, and I lived next to an ashram.

01:11:51.000 And the lady that ran the ashram, this Buddhist ashram, she used to poison the ants. 0.99

01:11:55.000 Yeah.

01:11:57.000 And I said to her, I go, what are you doing?

01:11:59.000 I go, you poison the ants?

01:12:00.000 She was like, well, it's inconvenient.

01:12:01.000 We really don't like to do it, but they get in our kitchen. 1.00

01:12:04.000 I'm like, oh, shit. 0.99

01:12:05.000 Yeah, that's where you draw the line. 1.00

01:12:06.000 Boy, you guys are, this is some weird gray area you've been to. 0.99

01:12:10.000 You're a murderer later. 1.00

01:12:11.000 You're a mass murderer. 1.00

01:12:12.000 You've killed fucking thousands of beings just today. 1.00

01:12:16.000 But an ant's a weird one, because I've seen people, they'll see an ant on them, they'll squish it, and then they flick it on the ground in your house. 1.00

01:12:25.000 Totally.

01:12:25.000 It's so little, they don't care that it hits your kitchen floor.

01:12:29.000 Yeah, exactly. 0.99

01:12:29.000 But if it was a mouse, if someone in your house stomped a mouse in the middle of your kitchen, you'd be like, what the fuck, dude? 0.99

01:12:35.000 Like, Jesus Christ, because it makes more of a mess, and now you have to consider what's actually going on there. 0.99

01:12:41.000 Totally. 0.99

01:12:42.000 People are fucking weird. 1.00

01:12:43.000 They're weird. 1.00

01:12:44.000 Yeah, it's weird.

01:12:45.000 I mean, but that's not really what I wanted to bring you guys in on.

01:12:48.000 That's like a beaten to death subject on this podcast.

01:12:50.000 You didn't want to talk about ants?

01:12:51.000 No.

01:12:51.000 I love ants, by the way.

01:12:52.000 Do you?

01:12:53.000 Any big ant fan?

01:12:53.000 Yeah, yeah, they're cool.

01:12:54.000 I mean, wouldn't it be amazing to be able to pick shit up that was that much bigger than you and walk around with in your mouth? 0.99

01:12:59.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:12:59.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

01:13:00.000 Impressive.

01:13:00.000 When you start talking about what they're capable of, yeah.

01:13:04.000 Isn't like an ant the size of a cat could be able to pick up a house?

01:13:08.000 Oh, yeah.

01:13:08.000 Yeah, and no free will whatsoever.

01:13:10.000 There's no decision making.

01:13:12.000 They just do...

01:13:13.000 Have you ever seen those ant death spirals?

01:13:16.000 No.

01:13:16.000 Got to check it out.

01:13:17.000 Jamie, pull something like that up.

01:13:18.000 The ants follow the pheromones of the queen.

01:13:23.000 I get it.

01:13:24.000 Yeah, I get it too.

01:13:25.000 When something goes wrong, like their scent gets screwed up or the queen dies or the queen gets removed but the scent's still there, the ants will circle.

01:13:36.000 They'll circle each other and spiral.

01:13:38.000 Seriously?

01:13:39.000 Yep. 0.98

01:13:39.000 Like a hurricane until they all die. 0.98

01:13:41.000 And you're talking about thousands of them.

01:13:43.000 Really?

01:13:44.000 Yep.

01:13:44.000 And they'll keep circling.

01:13:46.000 No one knows what the fuck's going on. 0.99

01:13:47.000 That's the true power of pee right there. 0.99

01:13:49.000 Yeah.

01:13:50.000 I mean, look at this.

01:13:50.000 That's amazing.

01:13:51.000 And a few of them are going the wrong way.

01:13:52.000 They're like, oh, good news!

01:13:54.000 There's a few rebels.

01:13:56.000 That looks like the freeways in Southern California.

01:14:00.000 It looks like a hurricane.

01:14:00.000 It does.

01:14:01.000 I mean, it really does.

01:14:02.000 That's the eye of the storm in the center there. 0.98

01:14:04.000 And they're circling around, and they don't know what the fuck's going on. 0.99

01:14:07.000 So that's with a dead queen. 0.99

01:14:07.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:14:08.000 Well, it's either a dead queen.

01:14:09.000 I'm not exactly...

01:14:10.000 Jamie, see if you can find out the actual...

01:14:13.000 They can't really know.

01:14:15.000 No, they don't know.

01:14:15.000 They're following pheromones in some sort of a way.

01:14:18.000 But when they're doing this, I mean, this just shows that this being, these ants, have no...

01:14:26.000 You don't have to just find an actual explanation for it, not a video.

01:14:29.000 But when these animals are doing this, they don't have any free will.

01:14:33.000 They have this sort of directive.

01:14:36.000 This is what they do.

01:14:37.000 They make the nest.

01:14:38.000 They build a beehive.

01:14:40.000 They do this.

01:14:41.000 A friend of mine was Ben O'Brien.

01:14:43.000 You guys know Ben O'Brien?

01:14:44.000 He used to work for Peterson's hunting magazine.

01:14:48.000 I don't know if I did.

01:14:48.000 He was telling me about one of his friends had a queen bee somehow or another got stuck in their car, and this hive of bees followed them for 20 miles.

01:14:58.000 They followed the car for 20 miles because the bee was in the car.

01:15:02.000 Like, they don't have any, like, man, she's gone.

01:15:05.000 We gotta let her go. 1.00

01:15:06.000 We can't!

01:15:06.000 We gotta push on!

01:15:08.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:15:08.000 There's none of that.

01:15:09.000 Like, there's no free will.

01:15:10.000 It's just what they do.

01:15:11.000 Yeah, there's no decision making.

01:15:12.000 It's just what they do.

01:15:13.000 They never give up.

01:15:16.000 No, it's a bizarre form of life.

01:15:19.000 And they have these really weird things that they do.

01:15:22.000 If you've seen, like, videos on different ant species where the females will chop the male's legs off.

01:15:30.000 I think, is that leafcutter ants that do that?

01:15:32.000 I forget which one. 0.98

01:15:33.000 But they chop, they take the male and they're going to breed with him, and they essentially cut his legs off so that he can't move, and then they carry him to wherever they want to fuck him, and then they take him and breed with him. 0.99

01:15:45.000 I've met a couple girls like that before. 1.00

01:15:47.000 It's not a bad way to go about it.

01:15:49.000 I'm like, you can take my legs off. 0.77

01:15:51.000 Lying there. 0.89

01:15:52.000 A stub. 1.00

01:15:54.000 All these chicks just pull cum out of you. 1.00

01:15:59.000 And again, no thought process. 1.00

01:16:01.000 There's no meeting.

01:16:02.000 They don't have a board where they sit down and decide how to do this with the male. 1.00

01:16:06.000 They just go about the way they've always done it.

01:16:08.000 What a trip, huh?

01:16:10.000 Yeah, here we go.

01:16:11.000 How to make ants commit suicide.

01:16:13.000 You can make it happen.

01:16:14.000 You can make it happen?

01:16:15.000 Yeah, it's just like you can force them into a potted plant, and they'll just start following each other, and next thing you know, they're all dead.

01:16:20.000 We should bring that in on the show.

01:16:22.000 We could put one right here.

01:16:23.000 It'd be rude.

01:16:24.000 People would be angry.

01:16:24.000 They'd protest.

01:16:25.000 Yeah, right?

01:16:26.000 That's cruel.

01:16:27.000 But that's the thing, like, a certain amount of death is okay.

01:16:30.000 I mean, every time you wash your body, you're killing flora.

01:16:33.000 You're killing living organisms that are on the surface of your skin.

01:16:36.000 There's no getting around it.

01:16:38.000 And there's no way to live a life where you're not killing other life.

01:16:42.000 There's this constant cycle that's going on in some sort of a weird way that most of us are detached from.

01:16:49.000 The way it's always been.

01:16:50.000 Yeah.

01:16:50.000 It's bizarre not to be in touch with it or just to deny it.

01:16:53.000 Like, I mean, like, no, I'm not doing that.

01:16:56.000 Hey, man.

01:16:57.000 I mean, and there are a few people that, you know, try as hard as they can and all that.

01:17:01.000 But most people, like, they always give up, though.

01:17:04.000 They love the idea.

01:17:05.000 Yeah.

01:17:06.000 But, you know, implementation...

01:17:08.000 This is where it gets complicated.

01:17:09.000 So I think there's also a problem with entertainment, like the anthropomorphizing of animals and Disney movies and things along those lines.

01:17:15.000 So when you think of an animal, you think of this big, furry, lovable thing.

01:17:19.000 You don't think of this...

01:17:21.000 What an elk is is essentially a warrior.

01:17:23.000 It's this living warrior that has weapons grown out of its head, and they run around and they kill each other.

01:17:30.000 When I was at Tejon Ranch, you've been to that place, they found this huge 390-class bull dead.

01:17:37.000 That had been stabbed by another bull.

01:17:39.000 He just ran them through.

01:17:41.000 He was lying there dead on the side of the mountain with holes in his body from the other bull. 1.00

01:17:45.000 Just fucking head-butted him to death. 0.99

01:17:48.000 I'm going through it right now. 0.99

01:17:48.000 I got a four-year-old son and he watched this little show called The Lion Guard which is like in all these animals Get together and they're all friends and we started watching he would ask questions and stuff and and now I'm like we watch you know if you want to watch the Lion Guard that's fine and but I've explained to him like the cheetah and the lion and the hippo they don't get along they're not buddies and we watched Discovery Channel and he watches you know like the day we just watched the wildebeest a couple days ago which the wildebeest getting eaten by the by the crocodile and he was just like Whoa! 0.99

01:18:19.000 You know, it's like, and now, like, when it comes up, he's like, well, that's just pretend, but I want to watch that.

01:18:24.000 And it's like, that's fine as long as we know, you know, that's not really how it goes.

01:18:27.000 You know, we'll go to Discovery Channel and watch, you know, Killers on the Savannah, and, you know, it's like, wow, you know, the lion doesn't get along with anybody.

01:18:33.000 He eats everybody.

01:18:34.000 And, you know, I don't want my kid...

01:18:36.000 To think that, you know, well, it's just a big peaceful thing and they're all this big symbiotic relationship and they all love each other.

01:18:43.000 No, man.

01:18:43.000 That ain't what's going on.

01:18:44.000 Yeah, it's weird the way we've chosen to distort these animals.

01:18:48.000 Like polar bears.

01:18:50.000 Like there was a picture that was going on on Instagram.

01:18:52.000 A lot of people were posting up of this enormous polar bear walking around with a cub's head in its mouth.

01:18:58.000 Everyday occurrence.

01:18:59.000 They're cannibals. 0.97

01:19:00.000 100% of the males are cannibals. 0.67

01:19:02.000 And most people have no idea of this.

01:19:04.000 So they think of a polar bear like a Klondike bar or a Coca-Cola salesperson.

01:19:08.000 Yeah, there's the photo that's been going on.

01:19:11.000 And this is just food for them.

01:19:13.000 Absolutely.

01:19:13.000 I mean, in a polar bear, he's not an omnivore.

01:19:15.000 No, 100% carnivore.

01:19:17.000 He eats people.

01:19:18.000 He eats whatever he can get a hold of.

01:19:20.000 Yeah, I mean, that's all they eat is meat.

01:19:21.000 They're not like a black bear or any other bear that can eat anything.

01:19:24.000 All they eat is flesh.

01:19:26.000 That's it.

01:19:26.000 That bear at the zoo is eating meat.

01:19:28.000 Yeah.

01:19:29.000 They don't let you see it, but the polar bear at the zoo, just hammering away at it.

01:19:33.000 Yeah, that's...

01:19:34.000 That's one of the darker things about the zoo, too, is we take them away from their actual purpose.

01:19:39.000 I think if you're going to have a zoo, it should be like, you should have animals that...

01:19:42.000 Have you ever seen that zoo in Iraq that they had?

01:19:45.000 Before we invaded Iraq, they had zoos where they used to just let, like, a goat loose. 0.75

01:19:52.000 And then they would open up the gate and let the lions come out and jack the goat. 0.99

01:19:57.000 And there's videos.

01:19:58.000 Soldiers took videos of these things.

01:20:00.000 And people were, like, aghast.

01:20:02.000 Like, I don't understand why you think you should be able to keep a lion, but don't let a lion be a lion.

01:20:08.000 Like, you're gonna do all the killing for...

01:20:10.000 How is... 0.99

01:20:10.000 Are you giving him some fake meat? 0.99

01:20:12.000 No, you're giving him real meat.

01:20:13.000 Okay, so something had to die in order to get...

01:20:16.000 But you don't want him to do it?

01:20:18.000 Why don't you want him to do it? 0.99

01:20:19.000 Like, what the fuck are you doing? 0.99

01:20:21.000 What is a zoo? 1.00

01:20:22.000 Trust me, the lion wants to hunt.

01:20:24.000 That's what they live for.

01:20:25.000 Here's the video.

01:20:26.000 So they have these goats.

01:20:28.000 And these goats are just wandering around. 0.89

01:20:30.000 They have no idea.

01:20:31.000 They let them loose.

01:20:31.000 And then they open up the gate.

01:20:33.000 And when they open up the gate, the lions, apparently, they do this all the time.

01:20:36.000 So they're hip to what's going to go on.

01:20:39.000 They're stretched out and ready to go.

01:20:40.000 Oh, yeah.

01:20:41.000 They're warmed up.

01:20:42.000 They've been doing sprints.

01:20:44.000 They don't want to pull a hammy when they get the goat. 0.95

01:20:46.000 So they open up the gate.

01:20:47.000 And as soon as they open up the gate, it is just on like Donkey Kong.

01:20:52.000 I bet they got walkout music and everything.

01:20:54.000 They were just ready.

01:20:57.000 This queen is playing. 0.96

01:20:59.000 We will, we will rock you.

01:21:02.000 Here it goes.

01:21:03.000 Boom! 0.99

01:21:04.000 They open up the gate.

01:21:10.000 I like that zoo.

01:21:11.000 It's not that weird to be fascinated by that and for those guys to look at that and go, wow, that's lions being lions.

01:21:18.000 They're going to eat today one way or the other.

01:21:20.000 And here's another interesting thing.

01:21:21.000 It's interesting for us to watch.

01:21:23.000 If we're watching and we're going, whoa!

01:21:25.000 And we're laughing, oh my god.

01:21:26.000 But if we were there and we're laughing, then people get upset. 1.00

01:21:29.000 There's an instinct to listen to those guys laughing while it's happening because they're filming it right through the fence and go, wow, a bunch of assholes laughing at death. 0.94

01:21:37.000 But meanwhile, it's okay to laugh at it if it's on a YouTube video. 0.99

01:21:41.000 Totally.

01:21:41.000 It's okay to throw a bug in a tank and watch a fish eat it.

01:21:46.000 It's like, ooh, cool.

01:21:48.000 But it's like a goat and a lion.

01:21:50.000 It's like, whoa, that's getting weird.

01:21:51.000 Well, it's like watching a fight.

01:21:53.000 Yeah.

01:21:53.000 I mean, we want to see the guy get knocked out.

01:21:55.000 The next step is death. 0.99

01:21:57.000 Right, it is.

01:21:57.000 So take it as close as possible.

01:21:59.000 Oh, yeah.

01:22:00.000 I mean, we find thrill in that.

01:22:01.000 Well, the guy chokes the guy out and he steps off of him and he's totally unconscious.

01:22:04.000 The only difference between that and death is time.

01:22:06.000 The amount of time he holds the choke.

01:22:08.000 It really is, right?

01:22:08.000 That's it.

01:22:09.000 Keep that choke on for another minute. 0.61

01:22:10.000 That guy's dead. 0.72

01:22:11.000 Yep.

01:22:11.000 Or not even a minute.

01:22:12.000 And we get millions of people who want to watch it.

01:22:14.000 Yeah.

01:22:15.000 But at least they make a decision.

01:22:17.000 They both make a decision.

01:22:18.000 They're both going to enter into this.

01:22:19.000 And it's an extreme form of a competition with dire physical consequences.

01:22:24.000 And that's why it's so exciting to watch.

01:22:26.000 I mean, I think the parallels when you're watching something like that is a little different.

01:22:32.000 Yeah, a little different.

01:22:32.000 But still, it's a detachment thing.

01:22:34.000 It is.

01:22:35.000 Yeah.

01:22:36.000 Well, you know, watch a movie. 0.99

01:22:37.000 You can watch a movie where 10 people get shot and they get punched and kicked and everybody gets their ass kicked. 1.00

01:22:43.000 But if they fuck, if they're naked, they start to go, what are you showing me? 1.00

01:22:47.000 Like, what is this? 1.00

01:22:48.000 Like, people are weird.

01:22:49.000 We're real weird.

01:22:50.000 They like to draw the line on certain things for whatever reasons.

01:22:53.000 No, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

01:22:54.000 No, it doesn't.

01:22:55.000 It doesn't.

01:22:56.000 That's why with the hunting thing, you can't win it all.

01:22:58.000 No.

01:22:58.000 I mean, you do as good a job as you can at putting forward an educated...

01:23:03.000 You know, opinion of why, what we do and, and, and at the same time being, you know, where I'm unapologetic about it too.

01:23:10.000 It's not like somebody, there's not a conversation that could convince me that what I'm doing isn't what I was meant to do.

01:23:16.000 You know, when it comes to hunting, I mean, you, you, you, you know, you put forward that, you know, we try and tell people about it and educate people as to what it is and people are going to feel how they're going to feel.

01:23:25.000 But at the end of the day, I mean, nothing's going to change with us either.

01:23:30.000 How did you go from being a guy who's obsessed with being the best hunter you could possibly be and wanting to be the best hunter in the world?

01:23:36.000 How did you go from that to working for a Sitka, an apparel company, a hunting company, and then going to Kuyu?

01:23:42.000 Well, after I killed that big elk, I started writing some stories.

01:23:47.000 And like I told you, I really...

01:23:50.000 You know, there's a lot of guys that get something, have a great stroke and luck in life, and all of a sudden they kill one big thing, or they win one small lottery or whatever, and you never hear from again.

01:24:00.000 And that was like, you know, growing up being a hunter, like, to kill this huge elk was, yeah, I was just, I mean, right place at the right time.

01:24:06.000 An amazing thing for me, but I was, at the time, super conscious that I don't want to be a one-hit wonder.

01:24:12.000 I mean, I want to do it more.

01:24:13.000 I want to be really good at what I'm doing.

01:24:15.000 I mean, like, I grew up reading We're good to go.

01:24:22.000 We're good to go.

01:24:26.000 We're good to go.

01:24:37.000 Not really an athlete team.

01:24:38.000 Yeah, whatever it was.

01:24:41.000 Pro staff, we were talking about that on the phone.

01:24:43.000 It's a weird term today because you can sort of buy a hat that says pro staff.

01:24:47.000 Oh yeah, the franchise is completely dead.

01:24:49.000 Like I said, pro staff with everything.

01:24:52.000 When you can buy a hat that says it, it's dead.

01:24:55.000 It means nothing.

01:24:59.000 Back in the day it was.

01:25:00.000 It was.

01:25:01.000 Back when print media, at one point in time it meant you were vouching for our product because you used it.

01:25:07.000 And you earned the right to vouch for it.

01:25:09.000 Yeah.

01:25:10.000 You had the photos, you had the accomplishments, you earned the rights.

01:25:14.000 Not so much today.

01:25:15.000 You have the credibility to say this is good stuff or not, and not because you did social media reps, but because you actually had been out there using it.

01:25:25.000 And killed big stuff and had the track record.

01:25:28.000 So I met him at trade show, and like I said, every now and again in life you have something that's just right place at the right time, and I had killed that big elk, and it kind of was getting known, and I met him in the booth, and he's like, you're that kid that killed that big elk.

01:25:41.000 It looked exactly the same.

01:25:42.000 It still does.

01:25:43.000 Yeah, and so we hit it off and I started helping him test and gear and shot a commercial for him down and stuff and we just became really good friends and then when the whole deal went down in Sitka, he, you know, it's like when your guy, you know, your guy is, you know, There and is leaving,

01:26:00.000 you know, you have a choice.

01:26:02.000 You can either go with your guy or you can, you know, stay with whatever the best thing you think is to do.

01:26:08.000 And I was like, man, whatever you got going on next, let me know.

01:26:11.000 I'm down.

01:26:12.000 What did you think about this pursuit that he's on to create the most finely engineered, like to the extreme products, like what he's doing?

01:26:22.000 It's fine.

01:26:22.000 I mean, he's hit everything on the head that he told me.

01:26:25.000 I mean, we flew down.

01:26:26.000 We went to a...

01:26:26.000 I flew down like...

01:26:28.000 I don't want to say it was like in November or something, the year before he's...

01:26:31.000 Kuyu was already started, but beforehand, he basically is like Nostradamus in hindsight.

01:26:38.000 I mean, he's like, listen, he breaks out this.

01:26:41.000 I'll never forget, he had this briefcase, and he pulled this thing out, and it was a carbon fiber frame.

01:26:45.000 And he's like, this is the backpack we're coming out with, and the whole business model and all that.

01:26:50.000 And it's like, I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but when I meet a really smart dude that's got a really good idea, you know, I'm not that dumb.

01:26:57.000 I'm like, wow.

01:26:58.000 He's smart enough to recognize smart people.

01:27:01.000 Yeah, I was like, man, I don't...

01:27:03.000 Yeah, I mean, when you see something and you go, dude, I want to know more about that, and that seems like it's going to fix a problem.

01:27:09.000 And just, you know, the knowledge of what he knew about everything.

01:27:12.000 And, you know, we were buddies, and it's like, dude, why wouldn't you want to go...

01:27:17.000 Work at a company where you're going to be able to hunt as much as you want.

01:27:20.000 You're testing gear and truly living the dream and not just saying it, living the dream.

01:27:26.000 You wake up every day and you like what you're doing.

01:27:30.000 It's been awesome.

01:27:33.000 He said, basically, I'm looking for somebody to run this part of it.

01:27:40.000 He's like, you'd be perfect.

01:27:41.000 I'm like, well...

01:27:43.000 Perfect.

01:27:43.000 Well, I think people like you are attracted to the pursuit of excellence.

01:27:46.000 Yeah.

01:27:47.000 And when you see the pursuit of excellence in another form, you go, well, there it is.

01:27:50.000 Like, that's how it is with me when I started seeing your company, and I see a company that's trying to, like, deeply and seriously engineer something. 0.95

01:27:59.000 I geek out on shit that I'm not even interested in buying. 0.79

01:28:02.000 Like, if someone's making the craziest grandfather clock in the world, and I see this guy that's engineering these things so it's accurate to, like, one 18th of one second over 20 years, I'm like, oh, What's going on in this dude's brain that makes him want to make this unbelievable grandfather clock? 0.99

01:28:20.000 I'm fascinated by pursuit.

01:28:22.000 When someone's trying to do something better than the people that have done before it, I'm fascinated by that.

01:28:27.000 So you must have seen that for a guy like you.

01:28:31.000 And I know what I like, and I know when I see a good idea.

01:28:36.000 The one thing is, I'm not...

01:28:38.000 I wouldn't say I'm necessarily the best at doing like super intricate things or knowing exactly how to get there but when you see somebody that knows how to get there and like it'd be a good combination and you can you know assist in that and somebody that when they're headed on the on the right direction it's like yeah I'm down with that and and then you know I have my input on what what we do but you know at the end of the day it's you know a lot of it is you know and how he goes about stuff it's cool to watch I mean it's like it it's I always tell people like at what we do is It's

01:29:09.000 exactly what you think it is.

01:29:10.000 You step in the room and it's like, oh yeah, this is some other guy's stuff.

01:29:13.000 We're going to knock this out.

01:29:14.000 That's not going on.

01:29:15.000 But that does happen in some companies.

01:29:17.000 You were pointing that out.

01:29:18.000 All the time.

01:29:20.000 That's disturbing to me.

01:29:22.000 When you look at the future of this, How far can you keep pushing this?

01:29:27.000 I mean, this is a fairly new thing that people have been ridiculously engineering hunting and outdoor equipment, and it obviously exists in the mountaineering world and the REIs.

01:29:39.000 Every year, they're trying to come up with better and better stuff.

01:29:42.000 But how far can that go?

01:29:44.000 Is there a point where you're going to have it done?

01:29:46.000 Like, this is the best backpack anybody could ever possibly make.

01:29:50.000 These are the best clothes.

01:29:52.000 Is there a point where that ends?

01:29:55.000 You know, today, innovation's happening faster than it ever has.

01:29:59.000 And with this business model, we can implement those innovations quickly, and we're always looking for the next greatest thing.

01:30:07.000 I always am.

01:30:08.000 I mean, I search the globe on a continuous basis for what's new, what's next, align myself with the innovation leaders for every single category, whether it's marina wool, whether it's leathers, or whether it's For our gloves or whether it's carbon fiber for our packs.

01:30:23.000 We had our designer down at Stanford meet with a carbon fiber scientist down there that's working on some leading edge technologies around carbon fiber that won't even get to market for a few years.

01:30:32.000 We're that interested in seeing what's next.

01:30:35.000 Because we can implement it.

01:30:36.000 Because we have no price restrictions.

01:30:38.000 For us, it's a never-ending pursuit.

01:30:42.000 And there's always new ways to make things.

01:30:45.000 And that's why I tag the line for the business of Ultralight.

01:30:48.000 Because if I can find a way to shave an ounce or a gram, There's a reason to redo that product.

01:30:55.000 There's a reason to reinvent that product because that makes a difference.

01:31:00.000 And that was my focus with this is that Toray's technology and how they make their yarn, carbon fiber, it all led to ultralight.

01:31:06.000 And ultralight means performance in the mountains.

01:31:09.000 And so my goal is to get our weights continuously to come down as far as our product without giving up performance.

01:31:14.000 And that's through using really innovative technologies and designs that are all focused around that.

01:31:20.000 And, I mean, from where we started to where we are now, I mean, we've taken pounds and pounds of weight out of people's kits and packs and seen the results, and it's been amazing to watch people that normally would walk into the mountains with a 70-pound pack, now leaving with a 40-pound pack and coming back and saying, made all the difference in the world.

01:31:36.000 I can hunt now.

01:31:37.000 And I thought I was done because of pack weight.

01:31:41.000 Now, have you guys thought about implementing any sort of workout routines or diet routines or things like that on your website and sort of shaping people's ideas about getting your body prepared?

01:31:54.000 I'd like to do more of that.

01:31:55.000 I really would.

01:31:56.000 We've started developing our Mountain Fit line that'll come out next year.

01:31:59.000 So using all of our fabric innovations into a performance fitness line for our customers because they're all training for hunts.

01:32:05.000 And I have wanted to step in and help people get fit, nutrition, supplements, and bring that to our customers as well.

01:32:12.000 We just haven't gotten there yet.

01:32:14.000 But I think it's absolutely something I know I want to do because I live it and breathe it every day just haven't done it yet.

01:32:18.000 Don't you think that's also another aspect that people don't realize like how much physical requirement is necessary in order to hunt?

01:32:25.000 Like especially mountain hunting, elk hunting, you're going in the mountains of Montana, you're at fucking 9000 plus elevation.

01:32:31.000 It's unbelievably difficult on the body and I think most people don't realize how much physical preparation is involved. 0.90

01:32:38.000 Especially you two guys.

01:32:39.000 You're a former wrestler.

01:32:40.000 You're a former football player.

01:32:42.000 You guys have athletic backgrounds.

01:32:43.000 You know how physically demanding this is.

01:32:45.000 The hardest things I've ever done have been hunting, without a doubt.

01:32:49.000 It's hard to say there's stuff that's tougher than college wrestling practices.

01:32:55.000 You push it to the limit, especially on some of these long expedition hunts.

01:33:00.000 I spent 24 days backpacking in the Bob Marshall last year to find a sheep, to find one ram.

01:33:05.000 It's like...

01:33:06.000 Until you've actually done that, I'm talking like it's not just, you know, how far or how long, but it's sustained.

01:33:13.000 It's at a sustained high level of focus also, which, you know, like you can grind away at stuff and you can, you know, just go and go and go.

01:33:21.000 But I mean, again, when we get, we don't just go from A to B, we have to be You know, you have to be on point in the mountains, too.

01:33:29.000 I mean, you have to be sharp.

01:33:30.000 You have to be ready to execute when the moment comes.

01:33:31.000 You can't be just sort of trotting along like a zombie.

01:33:35.000 Yeah, I mean, when you get up early in the morning, if you're not glassing every single time with the same enthusiasm and the same, whether it's your grid system or whatever, you have to be as intense on day one as you do on the last day because you could miss what you're looking for.

01:33:48.000 You can't let up.

01:33:49.000 That's the beauty of it.

01:33:51.000 I mean, physically fit, I mean, there's lots of different stuff.

01:33:55.000 He's got his whole training regimen and everybody's different, but whether it's yoga or cardio and how much you're eating, it never ends.

01:34:07.000 There is no magic bullet.

01:34:09.000 You're always breaking it down and doing a new puzzle.

01:34:12.000 Yeah, I do every year.

01:34:14.000 Yeah, and everyone has different physical requirements.

01:34:17.000 There's some people that are older, and you're just trying to kind of maintain the best possible shape that they can get in.

01:34:23.000 There's some guys that are younger.

01:34:24.000 We're trying to get them into ultimate fitness.

01:34:26.000 When you're training and you're doing all these backpack things, you say you're carrying weight.

01:34:31.000 Are you using weight plates?

01:34:32.000 What are you carrying around in a backpack?

01:34:34.000 We have these sand bags that are set up for putting over the booms in our video room, is now what I use.

01:34:41.000 You can buy them in 20 pounds, 25 pounds, 30 pounds.

01:34:43.000 Increments and that's what I put in my pack to train with and so like right now as we're rolling and we're about 45 days away from a sheep hunt in the Yukon I'm really stepping up my weight so I'm training with a 90 pound pack now and I'll do a two or three hour hike 1500 to 2000 vertical feet and now I'm doing it in the middle of the day with the heat we're having because it adds another mental toughness factor to it plus as you know It adds a whole other level of fitness too when you're training in the heat.

01:35:07.000 So my goal is to try to train in situations with weight and conditions that are harder than what I'll experience in the hunt.

01:35:14.000 Just for the mental strength as much as it is the physical part of it.

01:35:18.000 Because you get beat down on day three or day four and you just...

01:35:21.000 I see a lot of guys just fold in the towel and say, I've had it.

01:35:24.000 I want to go home.

01:35:25.000 Right.

01:35:26.000 Just physically they don't have anything left.

01:35:27.000 Nothing left, right?

01:35:28.000 So there's a mental side of it too that's a big part of it that gives me confidence when I'm going on these trips.

01:35:33.000 Because it's... 0.82

01:35:34.000 I mean, they're freaking grinders.

01:35:35.000 I mean, I've had hunts where we walk for three freaking straight days with 70-pound packs before you even start hunting. 0.90

01:35:41.000 That's just to get into the area from the time you wake up until the time you go to bed.

01:35:46.000 And that can, you know, most people can make the sat phone call and get picked up and taken out.

01:35:52.000 And we hear about it all the time from clients and customers.

01:35:54.000 So we try to help them get prepared, lower that weight so that doesn't happen to them.

01:35:58.000 When you're doing something like that and you're preparing for something like that, do you start off with 20 pounds?

01:36:03.000 How do you do that?

01:36:05.000 And how would you advise someone?

01:36:06.000 Say if there's someone listening right now that says, hey, I'm going to go on a hunt this winter or this fall, and I need to really get physically prepared, but I don't want to blow it all out in one shot.

01:36:17.000 Yeah, you definitely want to build up to it.

01:36:19.000 And because I don't stop training.

01:36:20.000 I come out of hunting, I go right back into my training.

01:36:22.000 But for a lot of guys that are just getting into it, ease into it, right?

01:36:25.000 I mean, you want to, like you said, start with 20 pounds and build yourself up over time because the last thing you want to do is go into hunt and hurt.

01:36:32.000 I've done that before.

01:36:33.000 I've overtrained or done too much going into hunt.

01:36:36.000 And you have to be careful, especially as you age.

01:36:38.000 I tend to get tendonitis and joint pain more than I ever have.

01:36:42.000 And so it's managing your body through that process and having something left when you leave.

01:36:48.000 But being fit enough and having your feet in good enough shape and your boots broken.

01:36:53.000 I mean, there's a lot to it besides just the cardio part of it that goes into the hunt.

01:36:57.000 Yeah, I think people would benefit from seeing if you could make a blog on how you do it or outline how you start off and how someone would build into it and maybe consult with someone who's an expert trainer and figure out what's the best way to get people prepared to develop an actual workout for pack hunting.

01:37:19.000 Even hiking.

01:37:19.000 Any sort of thing where you're walking uphill in the mountains with weight on your back.

01:37:25.000 It's like, boy, that is an unbelievably difficult thing to do all day, every day, for several days at a time.

01:37:31.000 And it's just a different biomechanical movement.

01:37:33.000 I used to trail run a ton before I hunted, and that was enough.

01:37:36.000 And as I've gotten older, I've realized that I need to train more specifically for hunts.

01:37:40.000 And that's carrying a pack with weight.

01:37:42.000 And it hits different muscle groups, as you've felt.

01:37:45.000 It gets more up in your hips and more in your glutes, and it hits a whole different muscle group than trail running does or that weight training does or training on an elliptical stairmaster or whatever that is.

01:37:55.000 There's no substitute for spending time in a pack with weight.

01:37:57.000 There just isn't.

01:37:58.000 No, there's no substitute.

01:37:59.000 It's so different than anything else.

01:38:00.000 It's so exhausting.

01:38:02.000 It is.

01:38:02.000 And it hits a whole different muscle group.

01:38:04.000 And your heart and lungs may be in shape, but those muscles aren't, and it taxes you.

01:38:09.000 Yeah. 0.97

01:38:10.000 As much as I lift weights and work out and kettlebells and all this stuff, I packed 100 pounds for like three quarters of a mile in the fall, and I was fucking dead. 0.89

01:38:20.000 When it was over, I was like, oh my god. 0.65

01:38:22.000 I can imagine 70 pounds on my back for three days at a time, walking all day.

01:38:26.000 Just to start hunting.

01:38:27.000 Yeah, I'm not in good enough shape for that.

01:38:29.000 So with someone listening to this, is there a resource?

01:38:32.000 Is there any sort of a website they can go to that can give them some good workouts for something to get prepared for?

01:38:38.000 Something like this?

01:38:38.000 There isn't one specific to what we're doing.

01:38:40.000 And I think it's a great idea that you have is really laying that out.

01:38:44.000 I mean, we talk about all the time.

01:38:45.000 We take all this for freaking granted.

01:38:47.000 We've grown up doing it, right?

01:38:48.000 These spreadsheets, people are like, oh my god, that's so amazing.

01:38:50.000 You can do that.

01:38:50.000 I'm like, I've always done it.

01:38:51.000 How in the hell else do you know what your pack's going to weigh?

01:38:54.000 And that you're not overpacking.

01:38:55.000 And that you have exactly what you need and how much you need of it.

01:38:58.000 We break it down to like calories per ounce and ounces per day.

01:39:02.000 As far as our food, we bring...

01:39:04.000 I mean, I go on a sheep hunt.

01:39:05.000 I don't rely on the outfitter to pack for me.

01:39:06.000 I bring all my own food.

01:39:08.000 And it's all weighed out.

01:39:09.000 It's all calculated out to the exact calorie per day I'm going to eat.

01:39:12.000 What kind of food do you bring?

01:39:14.000 A lot of whole foods now.

01:39:15.000 I used to bring lots of bars and Clif Bars and Power Bars.

01:39:17.000 Now it's real food.

01:39:19.000 And Brendan and I have both gotten into that.

01:39:21.000 Nuts and whole grains and...

01:39:23.000 Getting away from dehydrated meals so much, to have high sodium, not a lot of nutritional value, and really trying to focus on bringing breads and peanut butters and cheeses and things that will stick with you versus high sugars and quick burns.

01:39:38.000 Right.

01:39:38.000 When you have dehydrated food, how nutritious is that stuff?

01:39:43.000 I don't think it's quite very nutritious.

01:39:44.000 I think it's calories.

01:39:45.000 If you really look at their calories, they're not that many calories per ounce.

01:39:49.000 They're light, and some of them have higher calories per ounces than others, but I mean, Brendan's come up with a really good recipe with peanut butter and some noodles and stuff.

01:39:59.000 You can get really creative with it.

01:40:00.000 I've been kind of building my own stuff.

01:40:04.000 It wasn't my idea exactly, but I've modified it a bit.

01:40:06.000 And a couple things, ramen and peanut butter and fats and jerky and stuff, all that's dehydrated.

01:40:11.000 It weighs about the same and has double the calories.

01:40:15.000 This is what I do a lot.

01:40:16.000 It's advising people that are going on a big hunt.

01:40:19.000 Start today.

01:40:20.000 Don't put it off.

01:40:21.000 Don't get a plan.

01:40:22.000 Get a pack on.

01:40:23.000 Go for a hike.

01:40:24.000 Start working out right now.

01:40:28.000 Get all your gear in order.

01:40:29.000 At the end of the day, it's going to be a grind.

01:40:32.000 You're not going to be full the whole time.

01:40:35.000 You're not going to have all the energy you need.

01:40:37.000 That's the beauty of it.

01:40:39.000 You can train all you want to do.

01:40:40.000 At the end of the day, you're going to be working on the deficit.

01:40:43.000 You need to be sharp.

01:40:44.000 And you're just going to have to grind through it.

01:40:46.000 You have to be tough.

01:40:47.000 You know, that's the beauty of it.

01:40:48.000 You can't be a wimp and do this.

01:40:49.000 So how do you figure out how much peanut butter to bring? 0.82

01:40:53.000 Well, you can't bring enough, right?

01:40:55.000 So you're going to burn what?

01:40:56.000 I mean, 1,000, 2,000 calories an hour when you're carrying heavyweight at altitude?

01:41:00.000 Is it really that much?

01:41:01.000 Yeah.

01:41:02.000 2,000 calories an hour?

01:41:03.000 You'll do 1,000 calories on a treadmill an hour.

01:41:06.000 But is that even possible?

01:41:08.000 2,000 calories an hour if you're hiking for 12 hours?

01:41:11.000 At altitude with weight?

01:41:13.000 It's possible.

01:41:14.000 That's why you lose a pound a day, two pounds a day on these hunts if you're not in total shape going in.

01:41:18.000 Which is your body just burning off way more than you're taking in.

01:41:21.000 Yeah, you're going to be a calorie deficit no matter what.

01:41:23.000 And that also puts you at a mental deficit.

01:41:25.000 Totally does.

01:41:26.000 Makes you mentally exhausted when your body starts using all its resources.

01:41:30.000 Take part of it.

01:41:31.000 Yeah.

01:41:31.000 The same feeling you get cutting weight you get on a huge trip when you're running out of food.

01:41:36.000 You're way back in there and it's just like you just got to dig deep.

01:41:39.000 Like how do you show up for practice when you're cutting weight?

01:41:41.000 You just got to do it.

01:41:42.000 You just got to dig deep and your body responds.

01:41:46.000 The cool thing is your body responds.

01:41:47.000 It will eat what it needs to eat and you just keep going.

01:41:50.000 The beauty of it, it's never easy.

01:41:55.000 It's going to be tough.

01:41:56.000 That's one of the things that's so exciting about it.

01:41:58.000 It is this unbelievably difficult Huge test, man.

01:42:02.000 Now, if you're going, like, explain to me a hunt.

01:42:04.000 Like, say if you're going to go on, like, a mountain goat hunt or a sheep hunt, where you know you're going to go into very difficult terrain, and you have X amount of days, how do you pack for that?

01:42:14.000 As far as food?

01:42:15.000 Yeah.

01:42:15.000 Two pounds a day.

01:42:16.000 Two pounds of food per day.

01:42:17.000 Yep, and then you want to be ranging between 100 to 120 calories per ounce on your food choices.

01:42:23.000 That's how I break it down.

01:42:24.000 Do you concentrate on vitamins?

01:42:29.000 I do.

01:42:29.000 Yeah, I'll bring supplements.

01:42:31.000 I'll bring whether it's electrolyte replacement tablets or vitamins and that type of stuff.

01:42:42.000 And then the other part of it is just whole foods, making sure we max out that calories per ounce, high fat content.

01:42:46.000 And then the other thing I try to tell people is try it when you're not hunting.

01:42:51.000 Totally.

01:42:51.000 You have to.

01:42:52.000 If you don't like it, you're going to hate it on the mountain.

01:42:55.000 Like, one year about these new pro bars.

01:42:58.000 Have you tried a pro bar?

01:42:58.000 Yeah, I got those.

01:43:00.000 They're kind of nasty after a while.

01:43:01.000 I mean, there's a lot to it.

01:43:02.000 There's nuts and grains.

01:43:03.000 Yeah, they're very filling and they're very big and dense, but try eating one for 10 days or three of them.

01:43:08.000 A day for 10 days.

01:43:09.000 At the end of it, you don't even want to eat it.

01:43:11.000 And so I believe now, for me at least, and what I recommend to our customers is bring food you like now that you love and focus on that stuff versus trying to get crazy on something new you haven't tried and thinking, okay, I'll go to REI and buy all these different type of exotic bars and that'll be my food source.

01:43:27.000 Dude, before I was on a ketogenic diet, I was eating like 10 of those Pro Bars a day, so I don't know what you're talking about.

01:43:32.000 Those peanut butter and chocolate ones? 0.96

01:43:33.000 I fucking love those things, man. 0.98

01:43:35.000 Jamie loves them too, right? 0.99

01:43:36.000 Not even all the time, they're crazy.

01:43:37.000 I lived on them for 14 days in the mountains.

01:43:39.000 If I ate another one, I'd throw up. 1.00

01:43:41.000 Well, you know that expression, find me the best looking woman somewhere where there's a guy who's tired of fucking her. 1.00

01:43:46.000 Yeah, exactly. 1.00

01:43:47.000 Totally.

01:43:47.000 Yeah, I mean, a lot of it with the food is you got to try it out early.

01:43:52.000 You got to try it beforehand.

01:43:54.000 I mean, I tell people, like, if you've never eaten Mountain House, I mean, it is.

01:43:57.000 It's like second nature to us. 0.99

01:43:58.000 I mean, we've eaten so much of that shit that it's like... 1.00

01:44:00.000 I mean, I got... 0.99

01:44:01.000 Tell people Mountain House is dehydrated.

01:44:03.000 Yeah, dehydrated food.

01:44:04.000 Is it freeze-dried or dehydrated?

01:44:05.000 Freeze-dried, yeah.

01:44:06.000 Whether it's Mountain House or...

01:44:07.000 I mean, there's a million kinds of it, but I've gotten to where, like, I can only eat a certain...

01:44:11.000 Some of them function better for me.

01:44:12.000 Like, I don't like any of the red sauce.

01:44:14.000 I don't like...

01:44:14.000 Don't ever eat Chili Mac, by the way.

01:44:16.000 Why?

01:44:17.000 Just try it once.

01:44:18.000 Goes right through you?

01:44:18.000 Yeah, your buddy...

01:44:19.000 Anyone you're hunting with is going to be bummed you ate it.

01:44:22.000 Or if you've got somebody you're hunting with you don't like, feed them Chili Mac.

01:44:26.000 Not a lot of hang time.

01:44:27.000 If you've never done it before and, you know, all of a sudden you go on this great big trip and you're stressed, you know, you're traveling and all this stuff and all of a sudden, you know, it's like throwing diesel into an unleaded car.

01:44:37.000 I mean, if you've never ran on that before, you don't really know how you're going to run on it.

01:44:40.000 That's why you've got to go do it.

01:44:42.000 Right.

01:44:42.000 You know, and a lot of people, you know, it freaks them out, you know, That's the thing, leaving the outfitter.

01:44:46.000 Because you on a sheep hunt, they'll provide the food.

01:44:48.000 Right. 0.99

01:44:49.000 But shit, you don't know what they're going to give you. 0.99

01:44:50.000 They don't know what you're going to like. 1.00

01:44:52.000 They always overpack you.

01:44:53.000 I mean, the food bags they'll hand you will be 40 pounds for 10 days when you really need 20 pounds.

01:44:58.000 Because they don't know.

01:44:59.000 The last thing you want is a client that doesn't like what they have to eat.

01:45:02.000 Or runs out of food.

01:45:04.000 And so this is all part of it.

01:45:05.000 And then part of it, you may not like what they provide you.

01:45:08.000 The ketogenic thing is super interesting.

01:45:10.000 And I'm messing around with that, actually, as we speak.

01:45:13.000 Because the thought of being able to go for 10 days with sustained energy while you're burning your own fat versus...

01:45:20.000 I mean, that is like...

01:45:21.000 I would say that's cutting edge.

01:45:22.000 I'm messing around with that right now.

01:45:23.000 That's why I got the MCT oil and all that stuff.

01:45:26.000 I'm going to try that this fall to see.

01:45:28.000 Because I've been in places...

01:45:29.000 And it's kind of funny.

01:45:30.000 I've had times where...

01:45:32.000 You run out of food or you have so little food that I think your body has switched over to where it's just straight.

01:45:37.000 Most certainly.

01:45:37.000 Absolutely.

01:45:38.000 And then you feel fine.

01:45:39.000 It just goes away.

01:45:40.000 Well, hunger goes away in some sort of a weird way.

01:45:43.000 And there's also a bunch of different people that are involved in this now that are coming up with snacks and different foods that you could take with you.

01:45:51.000 That's one of the reasons why I wanted to ask you guys what you're carrying around.

01:45:54.000 But once your body's into ketosis, then you just need high-fat, high-fat Fat content foods, and you've got to figure out how to keep them okay, or keep them from going bad while you're out there in the mountain.

01:46:05.000 But almond butter, things along those lines.

01:46:06.000 Yeah, we're bringing a lot more of that than powder bars.

01:46:09.000 Yeah, and peanut butter, the problem with peanut butter is most peanut butter you're going to get is going to be loaded up with sugar.

01:46:15.000 You're going to get the insulin spikes, you're going to get the crashes.

01:46:18.000 When you're talking about 20 pounds of food, that doesn't seem like a lot.

01:46:22.000 If you tell me 20 pounds of food for how many days?

01:46:25.000 For ten days.

01:46:25.000 Two pounds of food a day.

01:46:26.000 I'm fucking panicking already. 0.99

01:46:28.000 I'm panicking. 0.99

01:46:29.000 I'm starving.

01:46:30.000 I'm gonna starve.

01:46:30.000 You gotta ration it out.

01:46:31.000 I eat too much.

01:46:32.000 You gotta ration it out.

01:46:33.000 Yeah.

01:46:34.000 And I mean, it's not like you're sitting around like, oh man, I'm ready to get something to eat.

01:46:38.000 I mean, you're doing stuff.

01:46:40.000 You're glassing it.

01:46:43.000 Bottom line is you're hungry, too.

01:46:45.000 It's like going on a diet.

01:46:46.000 It's basically you're in the mountains, but you're meal prepped.

01:46:50.000 There's your little meal.

01:46:52.000 It's like these guys that are slimming down to be on these competitions.

01:46:55.000 That's all you get.

01:46:56.000 Do you have them broken down to packets?

01:46:58.000 I have them broken down per day.

01:47:00.000 So I have a Ziploc bag with my day.

01:47:03.000 And how big is it?

01:47:04.000 What does it look like?

01:47:05.000 It's about this big.

01:47:06.000 I mean, it's not very big.

01:47:07.000 That's so crazy.

01:47:08.000 And then, you know, every day is broken down exactly that way.

01:47:10.000 So what's nice about it is you get back and now you're exhausted.

01:47:13.000 You take your empty bag out that you ate all day.

01:47:15.000 That goes in the garbage. 0.93

01:47:17.000 And then you pull your new one out of your...

01:47:19.000 Food bag and dump it in your pack.

01:47:20.000 So there's no guesswork?

01:47:21.000 None.

01:47:22.000 Can't be.

01:47:22.000 And are you eating this stuff, like he's talking about, before you go out there?

01:47:25.000 Are you trying to live off that for a few days?

01:47:27.000 I try everything year-round.

01:47:28.000 So if something new comes out or we learn about something new, I'm trying it during my training.

01:47:32.000 I'm trying it in the off-season to make sure I'm going to like it.

01:47:35.000 Have you ever...

01:47:36.000 There's a new product that's out that this friend of mine has put out.

01:47:40.000 It's called Fat Fudge.

01:47:41.000 Have you heard of this?

01:47:42.000 No.

01:47:43.000 It's...

01:47:43.000 See, pull up...

01:47:44.000 I think it's phatfudge.com, I think, is the website where she sells it.

01:47:51.000 Or it might be paleochef.com.

01:47:54.000 But she's created this, it's like a snack.

01:47:57.000 It's very nutrient dense.

01:47:59.000 It's a fudge that has MCT oil in it.

01:48:02.000 Very low sugar.

01:48:02.000 I think it's got like a little bit of honey in it.

01:48:05.000 But they come in these small individual packets. 0.99

01:48:08.000 Dude, I fucking live on this stuff. 0.97

01:48:09.000 I gotta try that. 0.99

01:48:10.000 It's fantastic.

01:48:11.000 But that's the type of stuff that is so powerful in the mountains.

01:48:14.000 Yeah, because it's a small packet.

01:48:16.000 You just rip the top off it, shove it in your mouth, and chew it down.

01:48:20.000 And you can see what all the ingredients are.

01:48:23.000 It's ketogenic, and it's got cacao, it's got turmeric, cinnamon, sea salt, maca, honey, grass-fed butter, It's all like super, super good stuff.

01:48:35.000 But it's, you know, a lot of calories for like a little tiny thing, but very nutrient dense.

01:48:39.000 And for someone who's trying to burn off nothing but fats, it's a good way to go.

01:48:44.000 It is.

01:48:45.000 Yeah, the concept of burning fat versus using sugars was introduced to me.

01:48:50.000 We're doing some VO2 max testing in weight.

01:48:52.000 With our packs on at a UC Davis performance lab.

01:48:55.000 And that guy trained, worked with US cycling team.

01:48:58.000 And they were talking about this movement into burning fat versus using gel shots and sugars.

01:49:04.000 And I've started to, in our diets and what we bring, that's been our focus.

01:49:08.000 And this made a really big difference.

01:49:10.000 It's made a big difference with me.

01:49:11.000 It's made a big difference to a lot of UFC fighters.

01:49:14.000 Misha Tate switched over to a ketogenic diet before she won the title. 0.99

01:49:18.000 Brian Carraway, her boyfriend, he's on it too.

01:49:20.000 He said weight cutting is way easier.

01:49:22.000 His performance levels are higher.

01:49:23.000 And one of the things that I'm finding with myself and with a lot of my friends who've gone on it is your testosterone goes up, noticeably.

01:49:29.000 And some guys, it's going up by double.

01:49:31.000 Really?

01:49:32.000 It's because the precursors for testosterone, it's all about fats.

01:49:36.000 It's all about your body turns fats, saturated fats and cholesterol, all that stuff that you're eating from healthy fats turns that into hormones.

01:49:45.000 That's like what it needs.

01:49:47.000 And it's one of the big problems with going on high carb, low fat diets is that your body has a difficult time creating hormones through that.

01:49:56.000 I didn't know that.

01:49:56.000 Really interesting and new stuff that's coming out is that these guys that are taking it, they're finding that when they're doing their blood tests, that their testosterone levels are higher, their growth hormone levels are higher.

01:50:07.000 It's really interesting stuff.

01:50:08.000 I think your body is designed to eat that natural food, like plants and vegetables and meats.

01:50:15.000 It is.

01:50:16.000 You watch a bear, what he eats first?

01:50:18.000 All the fat off the fish before he even eats the meat.

01:50:21.000 I mean, that's their number one food source or energy source is fat first. 0.67

01:50:26.000 I mean, it's a wonderful thing.

01:50:28.000 It's just for whatever reason, our society decided that's what makes people fat.

01:50:32.000 It's really the sugars.

01:50:33.000 Yeah, it's the sugars.

01:50:34.000 It's 100% the sugars.

01:50:35.000 It's the sugars.

01:50:35.000 But this stuff changes all the time.

01:50:37.000 If you go back five years ago and you read some of the studies that are done and what people recommend for as far as diet, now, today, it's totally contrary to that.

01:50:46.000 It is.

01:50:47.000 It's interesting how the edge is always moving.

01:50:50.000 The cutting edge of this stuff is always changing and people are always coming up with new studies that show better ways to eat.

01:50:58.000 And that's the fun thing about what we're doing.

01:51:00.000 There is no magic bullet.

01:51:02.000 I get guys call all the time like, hey, what jacket do I need?

01:51:06.000 It's like, dude, it doesn't work like that.

01:51:09.000 First of all, what is the name?

01:51:10.000 What does this mean?

01:51:11.000 It's an island in southeast Alaska.

01:51:13.000 It's got the highest density of black bears in the world.

01:51:16.000 And I've hunted it.

01:51:18.000 And it wasn't dot-commed.

01:51:21.000 And I just like the way the name lays out.

01:51:23.000 I like the way they balance the look.

01:51:24.000 And when I was hunting it, and this is when I had Sitka.

01:51:27.000 I was hunting there with my ex-business partner, and actually Gore-Tex, before they had licensed us and invested in us.

01:51:33.000 And I woke up one morning before everybody else was sitting on the back of the boat, and I was thinking about Kuyu, the name.

01:51:38.000 And I was like, that's what I'm going to name the next company.

01:51:40.000 And I don't know why that even...

01:51:42.000 It came to my mind because we're in the midst of building Sitka, but I just like the name for whatever reason.

01:51:48.000 Just my gut told me that was it.

01:51:50.000 Go with the gut.

01:51:51.000 Totally.

01:51:52.000 Always.

01:51:52.000 Every time.

01:51:53.000 Every time.

01:51:54.000 Yeah.

01:51:54.000 Isn't it amazing when you follow it, how powerful it is?

01:51:57.000 It's my whole life.

01:51:58.000 Right?

01:51:58.000 I've always gone with my gut.

01:51:59.000 Totally.

01:52:00.000 Yeah.

01:52:00.000 There's no other way.

01:52:02.000 So many people are driven or their entire life is about fear.

01:52:07.000 And it dictates everything they do versus following your gut and putting the fear aside.

01:52:12.000 And once you do, it makes all the difference in life.

01:52:15.000 Yeah, fear's good.

01:52:16.000 It is.

01:52:17.000 It's a motivating factor.

01:52:18.000 Yeah.

01:52:19.000 Well, it's also, the lack of fear can be very dangerous.

01:52:23.000 Absolutely.

01:52:23.000 It's one of the things that I always say, like, people that are not scared when they're fighting, like, those people are in trouble.

01:52:29.000 You're in trouble, man.

01:52:29.000 You should be fighting.

01:52:30.000 Nobody likes to be scared, but when I was competing, the worst tournaments that I ever fought in, I was not nervous.

01:52:35.000 Really?

01:52:36.000 I was too confident.

01:52:37.000 And I just performed poorly. 0.93

01:52:39.000 But when I was fucking terrified and, like, completely on edge, then your body's just... 0.97

01:52:44.000 It's just primal. 0.93

01:52:45.000 It's just like you get down to the bare minimum amount of understanding of what you have to do.

01:52:53.000 The rest of the world fades away, and all you're thinking about is that task.

01:52:58.000 You're cutting out everything else.

01:53:00.000 There's no thought about bills.

01:53:02.000 There's no thought about the future.

01:53:04.000 There's just what's going on in front of you right now.

01:53:06.000 And if you can get down to that, that's when you perform at your best. 0.90

01:53:10.000 But it's fucking terrifying, so nobody likes it. 0.87

01:53:12.000 Nobody likes to be... 0.95

01:53:13.000 Like when you see guys that are in the UFC that are like...

01:53:17.000 Here's a good example now.

01:53:19.000 I'm a big fan of Luke Rockhold.

01:53:20.000 I think he's an awesome guy.

01:53:21.000 That's what we were just talking about on the way down.

01:53:22.000 He was way too relaxed.

01:53:23.000 Way too much.

01:53:23.000 He thought he was going to kill Michael Bisping.

01:53:25.000 And Michael Bisping fought that fight like he was going in against a fucking silverback gorilla. 1.00

01:53:30.000 Totally. 0.99

01:53:30.000 He was terrified, or not terrified, but jacked up with nerves. 0.99

01:53:34.000 You always have to be.

01:53:35.000 It was all in the line for him.

01:53:36.000 Yeah.

01:53:36.000 And that's how he knocked him out.

01:53:38.000 Such a great sport.

01:53:39.000 Is that his first knockout, too, in the UFC? It's his first KO like that.

01:53:43.000 That's what I was telling him on the way down.

01:53:45.000 He stopped Jorge Rivera in Manchester.

01:53:47.000 Long time ago, though.

01:53:48.000 He beat down Mayhem Miller as a TKO. But the TKOs, yeah.

01:53:53.000 I mean, he's also sitting down on his punches better.

01:53:56.000 Jason Perillo, his boxing coach, has really been working with him and done a fantastic job with him and with Chris Cyborg and a bunch of other people that he trains.

01:54:04.000 The build-up to that reminded me of...

01:54:06.000 Keith Jardine talking about Houston Alexander.

01:54:09.000 It was like, I kept thinking, like, man, he's really dismissive, like, not even in my league and all that stuff, and all of a sudden, you're done.

01:54:17.000 Yeah, you can't.

01:54:18.000 When a guy's a professional fighter, if you just stood there and let him punch you in the face, would it knock you out?

01:54:23.000 Yes.

01:54:23.000 Absolutely.

01:54:24.000 Okay, so that it can fucking happen. 0.99

01:54:26.000 It happens all the time. 0.99

01:54:27.000 Yeah, and the last thing you want to be is the guy that says, this guy can't beat me, I'm gonna go in there and fuck him up, and then you wake up with a flashlight in your eyes. 0.98

01:54:33.000 Like, what? 0.99

01:54:34.000 What's going on?

01:54:35.000 The doctor's saying, don't move. 1.00

01:54:36.000 You're like, aw, shit. 0.99

01:54:38.000 What happened? 1.00

01:54:39.000 Motherfucker. 1.00

01:54:39.000 Yep, what happened? 1.00

01:54:39.000 And then you have to deal with that ego that allows, like, the ego tells you that it's gonna protect you from all this, you know, you're the baddest motherfucker ever, you don't have to need to worry about shit. 1.00

01:54:49.000 Hoo, I don't even have to worry, and then BLAM! And you're like, God damn it, ego. 1.00

01:54:53.000 Yeah, exactly. 0.99

01:54:54.000 And your ego leaves you alone. 1.00

01:54:55.000 Like, where are you now, bitch? 1.00

01:54:56.000 Your ego's gone. 1.00

01:54:57.000 It's okay to say it, just don't believe it.

01:54:59.000 Yeah.

01:55:00.000 And even if you say it, you've got to be real fucking careful. 0.94

01:55:03.000 Well, look who you're saying it to. 1.00

01:55:04.000 These guys are killers. 1.00

01:55:06.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:55:06.000 I mean, I just, man, that sport's awesome. 0.99

01:55:08.000 It's a crazy sport.

01:55:09.000 It is.

01:55:10.000 Brandon's got me into it, and I never miss a fight now.

01:55:13.000 Have you come live yet?

01:55:14.000 I have, yeah.

01:55:15.000 Where have you been to live?

01:55:16.000 I went to the Thompson Hendricks. 0.88

01:55:17.000 I've been to like 25 of them.

01:55:18.000 He was at Thompson Hendricks.

01:55:20.000 You know, Lorenzo Fertitta's nephew owns Go Hunt.

01:55:25.000 Yeah, so Lorenzo and I are buddies, so he took me.

01:55:27.000 We got full access.

01:55:28.000 Oh, that's beautiful.

01:55:29.000 Oh, that's beautiful.

01:55:30.000 Yeah, the big one's coming up next weekend.

01:55:32.000 Totally different experience live than on TV. Oh, yeah.

01:55:35.000 Yeah, I was like, wait, I need to be able to hear Rogan so I know what's going on.

01:55:38.000 Well, they have these little things, these little radios that you can get at the concession stand.

01:55:43.000 Can you really?

01:55:43.000 Yeah.

01:55:44.000 I miss that.

01:55:45.000 Most arenas have them now, and you take these little radios, and you turn them on, and it actually has a frequency that picks up the commentary.

01:55:52.000 Really?

01:55:52.000 Yeah, it's excellent.

01:55:53.000 It's really cool.

01:55:54.000 I miss that part of it.

01:55:55.000 Yeah.

01:55:55.000 Well, sometimes something's going on, and you don't know what happened.

01:55:57.000 Yep.

01:55:57.000 Yeah, and, like, they stop the fight.

01:55:59.000 Like, why'd they stop the fight? 0.99

01:56:00.000 And you don't realize, oh, his fucking leg's broken. 0.99

01:56:02.000 Yeah, exactly. 0.99

01:56:02.000 You can't see it. 0.99

01:56:03.000 It takes a while.

01:56:03.000 Yeah.

01:56:04.000 Yeah, commentary and it also...

01:56:07.000 Oh, I believe you can get...

01:56:09.000 I'm not sure about that.

01:56:09.000 That might just be Fight Pass.

01:56:11.000 One of the cool things about UFC Fight Pass is you can listen into the corners.

01:56:14.000 Oh, you can?

01:56:15.000 Yeah, so the corner guys are mic'd up.

01:56:16.000 So you can hear someone saying, oh, you know, his hand's broke.

01:56:20.000 Or, oh, you know, this is what you gotta do.

01:56:22.000 You get insight that you wouldn't normally get.

01:56:24.000 You just get...

01:56:25.000 You get insight and you also get a sense of building up anticipation.

01:56:29.000 Like if you know that a guy's got an injury and then he's trying to gut it out, it makes it even more exciting to watch.

01:56:35.000 It's an awesome sport.

01:56:36.000 Like I said, I only have a couple hobbies watching MMA. Hunting, that's it.

01:56:41.000 They're very comparable from going from being a wrestler.

01:56:47.000 It's exciting.

01:56:48.000 It's slow portions of nothing and this training and grinding and all of a sudden.

01:56:52.000 Every now and again, you get to step in and see where you're at.

01:56:57.000 Like you always say, two guys, that's a strip down as it gets.

01:57:00.000 You either win or lose it.

01:57:01.000 50-50.

01:57:02.000 I'm either going to win or I'm not.

01:57:03.000 Same with hunting.

01:57:04.000 At a certain point in time in that hunt, You either get them or you don't like that the percentages work out like that I mean, it's that's that's the cool thing about it.

01:57:13.000 Well, I think also like honey, it's very It's not perceived correctly by a lot of people.

01:57:18.000 It's very misunderstood And a lot of people think of it as this barbaric awful thing involving bullies and assholes when really they're incredibly intelligent difficult people were pursuing one of the most One of the most difficult things to do with dire physical consequences if you fail. 0.97

01:57:34.000 Those bullies and assholes, they don't have the dedication to get there. 0.99

01:57:37.000 Those aren't the real guys. 1.00

01:57:38.000 Well, they don't have the understanding of who they actually are. 0.99

01:57:41.000 In order to face your own fears, like a lot of the bullies and the assholes, you can get a certain... 0.98

01:57:47.000 Distance with that, with physical power and genetic attributes. 1.00

01:57:51.000 I mean, some guys just hit fucking hard, and they're just good at taking a shot, and if you stand in front of them and wail with them, they might catch you and knock you out and beat your ass, and you just got beat by a bully. 0.99

01:58:01.000 But the reality is, when those guys get to Estipe Miocic or Cain Velasquez or, you know, the best of the best, they're going to get fucked up. 1.00

01:58:10.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:58:10.000 Because those guys are just as physically strong, but also have their mental shit in order. 0.99

01:58:16.000 They have their ego in order. 0.99

01:58:17.000 They have their understanding in order.

01:58:19.000 And those guys are some of the nicest, most down-to-earth people you're ever going to meet because they get their ego checked on a daily basis.

01:58:26.000 Yeah.

01:58:26.000 Every one of them I've met, we have some guys that are customers of ours, TJ and Mendez, and I mean they're really sharp guys, very sharp, and very nice, very polite, not assholes, very thoughtful, I mean just great people to be around.

01:58:42.000 And they also recognize that same thing in hunting.

01:58:44.000 TJ and Chad are gigantic hunters.

01:58:48.000 Chad lives for it.

01:58:49.000 He wants to do that from now on.

01:58:52.000 Most really good athletes that you come across that are hunting, that's like their second passion.

01:58:57.000 They love doing it.

01:58:58.000 We've got tons of baseball players and football players.

01:59:02.000 You get the same drug out of it.

01:59:05.000 Well, it's the DNA, right?

01:59:07.000 Those same guys are the hunters of the tribe.

01:59:09.000 Or the athletes.

01:59:11.000 It's a natural deal.

01:59:13.000 We had Carson Palmer as a customer of ours.

01:59:15.000 It's kind of like you.

01:59:17.000 Never been hunting before.

01:59:18.000 Who is he?

01:59:18.000 Carson Palmer is a quarterback for the Cardinals.

01:59:21.000 I literally don't follow any other sports.

01:59:23.000 I can tell you everything you want to know about MMA or kickboxing.

01:59:27.000 I love a narrow focus.

01:59:29.000 I'm all about narrow focus.

01:59:30.000 Apparently, yeah.

01:59:31.000 So Carson won a thing called the Heisman Trophy.

01:59:33.000 Oh, I heard about that.

01:59:34.000 Jamie told me about that.

01:59:35.000 It's this medal trophy thing that you get for playing football in college.

01:59:38.000 And then he's the quarterback for now the Cardinals, but then he was Cincinnati, and he had a guy on the team that took him hunting during one of their bye weeks.

01:59:46.000 Put him up in a tree stand.

01:59:47.000 He'd never been hunting before.

01:59:48.000 He grew up in Orange County like I did.

01:59:50.000 And he said the first time a deer walked under his stand, a buck, The adrenaline and the DNA of that process took over, and he is just a diehard hunter now.

02:00:00.000 It's all he wants to do.

02:00:02.000 When he's done playing football, he only wants to hunt.

02:00:05.000 He wants to invest in Kuyu so he can be involved with hunting.

02:00:07.000 I mean, it's just that happened for him like it happened for you.

02:00:10.000 I see it happen so much with athletes.

02:00:12.000 We have Brent Burns plays for this game called Hockey.

02:00:16.000 Hockey.

02:00:16.000 That's the thing on ice with skates?

02:00:18.000 Oh, ice.

02:00:18.000 Yeah, skates.

02:00:19.000 Well, it is water, but they freeze it.

02:00:20.000 Freeze water, right.

02:00:21.000 Yeah, and he's the same way.

02:00:22.000 He just got into hunting, and he is just like, this is the most amazing thing.

02:00:26.000 Yeah.

02:00:26.000 Just DNA. It's intense.

02:00:29.000 It's unbelievably intense.

02:00:30.000 And again, incredibly rewarding.

02:00:33.000 I mean, when I go to a store and buy a steak, there's no reward.

02:00:35.000 It's like, oh, this is delicious.

02:00:36.000 I can't wait to eat it.

02:00:37.000 Yeah.

02:00:38.000 It's not like, you know, you're cooking up a deer backstrap that, you know, you had to get out of the mountains.

02:00:43.000 Yeah, I love your Instagram post of your elk steaks with the jalapenos.

02:00:47.000 Yeah, did you ever eat that way?

02:00:49.000 Yeah, the next day I went and cooked it up just like you did. 0.92

02:00:50.000 Oh, dude, I sweat like a pig.

02:00:52.000 I got sweat pouring out of the top of my head.

02:00:54.000 Everybody's laughing at me, but I'm like, it's so good.

02:00:57.000 Isn't it amazing?

02:00:58.000 Yeah.

02:00:58.000 Oh, man, with jalapenos, man.

02:01:00.000 Have you tried it that way?

02:01:01.000 Every way possible.

02:01:04.000 I've had it raw to burnt.

02:01:07.000 Anything you can put on it, love it all.

02:01:10.000 It's the best meat you can ever eat.

02:01:12.000 My kids have been eating it for four years now.

02:01:14.000 I have a six-year-old that's been eating bear since she was three.

02:01:17.000 It's the healthiest food.

02:01:20.000 It feels better.

02:01:21.000 It feels better when you eat it.

02:01:23.000 It really does.

02:01:23.000 Well, it's flat out better for you, too.

02:01:25.000 Yeah, and I'm really into pursuing the art of cooking it in a bunch of different ways, too.

02:01:31.000 And that's another thing that I learned from Rinella.

02:01:34.000 I'm getting Hank Shaw, who I think lives up your way, too.

02:01:37.000 He's a wild game cook, a famous chef who's Turned to becoming a hunter because he was interested in trying to prepare this food and being more connected with food.

02:01:48.000 So then he started hunting and then using...

02:01:50.000 He uses a lot of local ingredients, too.

02:01:53.000 A lot of, like, ingredients from the area where the animal actually lives.

02:01:57.000 It's really interesting, too.

02:01:58.000 That is.

02:01:58.000 Yeah.

02:01:59.000 Do you cook?

02:02:00.000 I barbecue.

02:02:01.000 That's it?

02:02:02.000 Just man style.

02:02:03.000 Fire and meat.

02:02:04.000 Yeah.

02:02:05.000 That's all I do.

02:02:06.000 If I can't barbecue it, I won't cook it.

02:02:09.000 Well, that's the best way anyway.

02:02:10.000 It is.

02:02:11.000 Especially...

02:02:11.000 No, it really is.

02:02:13.000 But yeah, talking about chefs, Guy Fieri is a client of ours.

02:02:17.000 You know who he is?

02:02:17.000 Yeah, sure.

02:02:18.000 Yeah.

02:02:18.000 And so he's actually become buddies with Brendan because he likes to smoke meat and cook meat like you do.

02:02:24.000 We've got to shave his head.

02:02:25.000 Yeah.

02:02:26.000 Right?

02:02:27.000 It's not the 80s, buddy.

02:02:28.000 He loves those frosted tips.

02:02:29.000 Gotta go.

02:02:30.000 I know.

02:02:31.000 Hold them down and hack that stuff off.

02:02:33.000 We got three haircuts for one this morning, by the way.

02:02:38.000 If you haven't noticed. 0.99

02:02:40.000 Goddamn, your haircut looks good. 0.96

02:02:41.000 Thank you very much. 0.95

02:02:42.000 Lots of love.

02:02:43.000 No hope here.

02:02:46.000 Kids are going to have to shave their head, too.

02:02:47.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:02:50.000 Chefs like Anthony Bourdain, he took me hunting in Montana recently.

02:02:53.000 We went on a pheasant hunt, and he's a big fan of doing that as well, as cooking the animals that he hunts himself and showing you how to prepare it properly.

02:03:04.000 He's done that a bunch of times on his show and very involved in it.

02:03:09.000 Yeah, it's actually fun to put different marinades, put different recipes together.

02:03:13.000 I mean, I throw it on the barbecue, but there's a lot that goes into it.

02:03:15.000 And then also, you know, something that people don't do, I think, enough of with Wild Game, they wonder why it doesn't taste right.

02:03:19.000 It's proper aging your meat.

02:03:21.000 I don't know if you do that with yours.

02:03:23.000 I do sometimes, yeah, but most of the time I just cook it.

02:03:26.000 Yeah, I mean, it's better if you age it.

02:03:28.000 You can do a quick age in your fridge where you put up like on a rack in like a pan or a plate with like a wire rack that gets it off the bottom of it and then put foil over the top and let that blood drain out.

02:03:38.000 And how long do you age it for?

02:03:40.000 I'll age Backstrap for 10 days in my fridge.

02:03:42.000 Really?

02:03:43.000 And it is so much better.

02:03:44.000 What does it smell like?

02:03:46.000 It doesn't smell like anything.

02:03:47.000 Really?

02:03:48.000 Nothing.

02:03:48.000 How come it doesn't stink after 10 days in your fridge?

02:03:50.000 Because it's not rotting.

02:03:51.000 It's just aging.

02:03:52.000 They do that with beef. 0.66

02:03:53.000 Right, but then the outside of it is all black.

02:03:56.000 But that's what you're supposed to do.

02:03:57.000 You cut off the outside edges.

02:03:59.000 And that's what you do with your backstrap as well?

02:04:01.000 That's what you do with any meat, yeah.

02:04:03.000 But that outside doesn't stink?

02:04:04.000 Nope.

02:04:05.000 It just gets dry.

02:04:06.000 And it actually builds a crust.

02:04:07.000 You trim off the crust and cook the middle.

02:04:09.000 A million times better.

02:04:10.000 What is the temperature that it has to be at when you're doing that?

02:04:13.000 You can cook it medium.

02:04:14.000 You cook it medium, right?

02:04:15.000 No, I mean, when you're in the refrigerator.

02:04:17.000 If you're going to quick-age, it goes in your fridge.

02:04:18.000 It's just a normal refrigerator temperature, which is what?

02:04:20.000 I don't know, 36, 38 degrees?

02:04:22.000 Right.

02:04:23.000 But when they dry-age meat, when you go to one of those butcher shops?

02:04:27.000 I think they're hanging at similar temperatures.

02:04:28.000 My brother went to culinary school.

02:04:30.000 He's the one that taught me that.

02:04:31.000 Really?

02:04:31.000 He's like, you need to age your meat.

02:04:33.000 Because you'll get all the blood out of it.

02:04:34.000 The blood is what causes a gamey flavor.

02:04:37.000 And it also tenderizes your meat when you age it.

02:04:40.000 Try it.

02:04:40.000 You take a piece of backstrap, put it in the fridge with a little bit of soy sauce and some brown sugar or something on it.

02:04:46.000 I mean, you're not eating sugar anymore, but if you do that, it's phenomenal.

02:04:52.000 I don't know if it would go bad.

02:04:53.000 I've never left it long enough where you couldn't eat it.

02:04:57.000 I've left a backstrap for weeks.

02:05:00.000 Weeks!

02:05:00.000 It doesn't rot.

02:05:02.000 That's interesting.

02:05:02.000 Is it more sustainable because it doesn't have all that fat on it, like a beef steak?

02:05:08.000 They age beef.

02:05:09.000 Right.

02:05:10.000 But do you do that in a fridge right there?

02:05:11.000 It just seems weird because people don't do it, but it's like a guy I know, that big African PH, he'll take a whole hindquarter and Steve Cobreen, he told me this. 1.00

02:05:20.000 He'll take a whole hindquarter and put it in a fridge at his house for 30 days.

02:05:24.000 And then it's the best.

02:05:25.000 It is.

02:05:26.000 A PH for people who don't know is a professional hunter, which in Africa is like a guide.

02:05:32.000 It is.

02:05:33.000 Do you know Steve Cobreen?

02:05:34.000 No.

02:05:35.000 So he's a bow hunter, really cool guy, big guy.

02:05:39.000 He's basically killed everything in Africa with a bow. 0.98

02:05:41.000 I don't know that anybody else has ever done it. 0.52

02:05:43.000 Like this guy is the real deal.

02:05:45.000 Goes into the gnarliest places, but he takes people hunting over there and stuff.

02:05:50.000 But almost entirely a bow hunter himself, like stud.

02:05:55.000 I'll introduce you to him.

02:05:57.000 It's really cool.

02:05:58.000 No one's killed more animals in Africa than him.

02:06:00.000 Everything.

02:06:00.000 He's been everywhere to everything.

02:06:03.000 We're just thinking of his meat sitting in the refrigerator for 30 days.

02:06:07.000 Doesn't go bad.

02:06:08.000 Try it.

02:06:09.000 That's crazy.

02:06:09.000 Yeah, I mean, cover it in foil, put a rack so the blood can drain out.

02:06:13.000 And it can sit there...

02:06:15.000 You'll be amazed at how long you can age it and how good it is when you do.

02:06:19.000 Is that the key?

02:06:20.000 Because I've had meat that I let sit in like a, like I bought a steak at a store and let sit in my refrigerator for too long.

02:06:25.000 Then you open up the meat and you're like, oh, it smells terrible.

02:06:27.000 Well, that's already been aged too.

02:06:28.000 And it's sitting on itself, right?

02:06:30.000 Right.

02:06:30.000 Is that the key?

02:06:31.000 Yep.

02:06:32.000 That it has to drain.

02:06:33.000 You have to get out of its blood.

02:06:34.000 Yeah, don't wrap it up.

02:06:35.000 Don't put it, don't, don't contain it.

02:06:37.000 Right.

02:06:38.000 You need to have airflow underneath.

02:06:39.000 And then you can...

02:06:40.000 The other way, if you don't have a rack, you can take...

02:06:42.000 I do is a bowl, right?

02:06:43.000 Or a pan.

02:06:44.000 I'll put foil over it and punch holes in it. 0.68

02:06:46.000 Uh-huh.

02:06:46.000 So it suspends it and that plug can go through those holes in the foil.

02:06:48.000 Then you put foil over the top and slide it in your fridge.

02:06:51.000 Do they sell like a rack for aging in your refrigerator?

02:06:54.000 They make little cooking racks that are just like screens with...

02:06:58.000 Are designed to go in a pan and get stuff off of a pan?

02:07:01.000 That's interesting.

02:07:02.000 I'm going to try that.

02:07:02.000 You've got to try it.

02:07:03.000 Yeah, I haven't been doing that.

02:07:04.000 Oh, it'll make a huge difference.

02:07:06.000 I marinate sometimes.

02:07:07.000 You know what I like to do?

02:07:08.000 I like to take Newman's own balsamic vinaigrette.

02:07:10.000 Yeah, just put it in that for, you know, five or six hours.

02:07:14.000 Italian dressing is a great marinade.

02:07:15.000 Yeah, yeah, it's excellent.

02:07:17.000 And then pull it out.

02:07:17.000 Someone served sheep.

02:07:20.000 I was at a camp.

02:07:22.000 It was actually at Tejon.

02:07:23.000 We were pig hunting.

02:07:25.000 And someone brought by some sheep backstraps. 0.97

02:07:29.000 And they had it marinated in Italian dressing.

02:07:34.000 There's nothing better than stone sheep backstraps. 0.97

02:07:37.000 It's amazing how good they taste.

02:07:39.000 It's so good.

02:07:40.000 Cheap meat is.

02:07:42.000 Is that the best meat of all the meats?

02:07:44.000 Is bighorn the same as thin horn?

02:07:46.000 Bighorn's not near.

02:07:47.000 It's good, and the harder you work for it, the better it is.

02:07:51.000 But a sheep tenderloin pulled right out, one minute each side, as hot as you can get it.

02:07:58.000 That's it.

02:07:59.000 You just want to sear it.

02:08:00.000 No one will ever know how good it is because they never make it out.

02:08:03.000 No critic will ever get a bite of that.

02:08:05.000 Right, because they never get it out of the mountain.

02:08:07.000 Nope, never comes out.

02:08:08.000 Most of the time you cook it while you're up there, right?

02:08:10.000 Yeah, a lot of times.

02:08:11.000 We have a thing called man kebabs, which is you gotta...

02:08:16.000 Hunt down the animal. 0.99

02:08:17.000 You've got to kill it. 1.00

02:08:19.000 You've got to pack it back to camp. 1.00

02:08:21.000 You've got to start a fire that you create.

02:08:23.000 You've got to harvest the willow stick that you're going to put the meat on.

02:08:25.000 And you chop it up.

02:08:27.000 You slide on the meat.

02:08:28.000 At the time, we only had top ramen seasoning.

02:08:30.000 So we sprinkled the top ramen seasoning out.

02:08:32.000 Put it over the fire.

02:08:33.000 That's a man kebab. 0.99

02:08:35.000 Top ramen.

02:08:35.000 No vegetables.

02:08:36.000 It's kind of funny, though.

02:08:38.000 The top ramen is the seasoning. 0.99

02:08:39.000 But top ramen seasoning is fucking good. 1.00

02:08:41.000 It's fucking good. 0.99

02:08:42.000 When I used to eat that stuff, and I'd get some of it just a little bit on the table, and I'll put it on my finger. 0.99

02:08:47.000 It's delicious.

02:08:47.000 It's a good seasoning.

02:08:48.000 It's a good seasoning.

02:08:49.000 You get really creative if you don't have much.

02:08:51.000 It's probably a good idea, too, to bring in camp.

02:08:54.000 It's a small packet.

02:08:55.000 We do.

02:08:56.000 It's already sealed up.

02:08:57.000 It's a good size for seasoning.

02:08:58.000 Oh, it's great.

02:08:59.000 And you do it as a rub, and you put the kebabs on that thing.

02:09:02.000 Granted, you're starving to death by the time you kill this animal and put it on the fire, but it is off the hook.

02:09:07.000 Well, when I hunted with Ronella the very first time and shot a mule deer, and then we ate the liver that night, we hung up most of the meat in the tree because it was pretty close to dark, and we went back the next day to pack it out.

02:09:19.000 But when we went back to camp and ate liver and onions...

02:09:23.000 Like, from an animal that died two hours ago.

02:09:26.000 It was like the most insanely delicious food I've ever had in my life.

02:09:29.000 I couldn't believe how good it tastes.

02:09:31.000 Yeah, you guys hunted down from the ferry up on the Missouri up there.

02:09:34.000 Yeah.

02:09:35.000 I hunted sheep in there a bunch.

02:09:36.000 We saw a lot of sheep up there.

02:09:38.000 It's probably pretty hard to get a tag though, right?

02:09:40.000 Hardest place in the world, yeah.

02:09:41.000 Is that the breaks?

02:09:41.000 Yeah.

02:09:43.000 Hardest place in the world to get a tag.

02:09:44.000 That's interesting.

02:09:45.000 They're just doing a really good job of making sure the populations go up.

02:09:47.000 Biggest sheep in the world. 0.96

02:09:49.000 They had giant balls.

02:09:52.000 We spent a whole segment of the show concentrating on the balls of the sheep. 0.93

02:09:58.000 Like, Ranella made a video.

02:09:59.000 See if you can find this, because it's pretty funny. 0.89

02:10:03.000 We were there, and Ranella is obsessed with these bighorn sheep and their balls, and he's like, the moment I kill one of these things, I'm going to kill it, and I'm going to take one of those balls, and I'm just going to eat it. 0.72

02:10:14.000 I've eaten them. 0.91

02:10:15.000 I'm going to eat it like an apple.

02:10:16.000 I've eaten them.

02:10:17.000 They're great.

02:10:17.000 They're huge.

02:10:17.000 They're the biggest of anything, though.

02:10:19.000 You've eaten sheep balls.

02:10:20.000 Oh, yeah. 0.86

02:10:21.000 That you killed. 0.93

02:10:22.000 Yep. 0.99

02:10:23.000 What does sheet balls taste like?

02:10:24.000 I'm not eating sheet balls.

02:10:25.000 You're not going to eat it?

02:10:26.000 I'm not doing that.

02:10:27.000 I'll save it for Steve.

02:10:28.000 Just good like everything else.

02:10:30.000 You're like Cameron Haynes.

02:10:31.000 Cameron Haynes won't eat heart.

02:10:32.000 He won't eat liver.

02:10:33.000 He won't eat anything. 0.99

02:10:34.000 I'm like, you're crazy. 0.97

02:10:35.000 When we shot an elk, I was cutting the heart out. 0.99

02:10:37.000 He's like, you're going to eat that? 0.99

02:10:38.000 I'm like, fuck yeah, I'm going to eat this. 0.99

02:10:39.000 Around the hole I put in it. 0.99

02:10:41.000 Oh, yeah.

02:10:42.000 Yeah, you gotta cut around the hole.

02:10:43.000 Yeah.

02:10:44.000 Depending, if it's a bow and arrow, you don't have to do that, you know?

02:10:46.000 No, you don't.

02:10:47.000 You get that weird, funky lead in your mouth.

02:10:50.000 Yeah, exactly. 0.99

02:10:50.000 So, uh, lookit, this is, uh, him and I up there, and he started, he started obsessing about the balls. 0.99

02:10:59.000 I know exactly where you guys are. 0.61

02:11:03.000 I mean, exactly where you're at. 0.94

02:11:05.000 When you go home and tell people what a bad spot I took you to, and you say, boy we didn't see a lot of bighorns though, what they're gonna say is something like, what kind of dumbass hunts mule deer in bighorn country? 0.99

02:11:22.000 You've never seen a scrotum? 0.99

02:11:25.000 You've seen a scrotum on a bighorn man. 0.99

02:11:28.000 Really? 0.97

02:11:29.000 It's a sight to behold.

02:11:31.000 I'd love to show you if he turned right.

02:11:33.000 Your hat's on backwards.

02:11:35.000 No, it's perfect.

02:11:36.000 It's like a church bell.

02:11:39.000 Really? 0.68

02:11:41.000 This is like a church bell hanging down between his legs. 0.87

02:11:44.000 Wow, what a giant animal.

02:11:46.000 Are they awesome?

02:11:47.000 Crazy animal.

02:11:49.000 Yeah, this is one of the...

02:11:50.000 Are we able to see that church bell?

02:11:51.000 Yeah.

02:11:52.000 It's impressive.

02:11:53.000 He's excessive.

02:11:55.000 Look at you pondering it.

02:11:57.000 Here it goes. 1.00

02:11:57.000 The first thing I'm going to do when I kill one, I'm going to punch my tag and I'm going to eat the contents of that sack. 1.00

02:12:05.000 Just straight up. 1.00

02:12:07.000 Just raw?

02:12:09.000 Just right there, like apples.

02:12:11.000 Why?

02:12:12.000 No way.

02:12:12.000 I don't know.

02:12:14.000 I feel a calling to do it.

02:12:19.000 Well, he's another really important factor in educating people about hunting because he's a very well-read, very intelligent guy, very educated, and really very, very ethical.

02:12:30.000 I mean, as ethical and as driven as you can be.

02:12:34.000 Do you read his book, American Buffalo?

02:12:36.000 Yeah.

02:12:36.000 Well, I didn't read that one.

02:12:37.000 I read the other one, the meat-eater one.

02:12:39.000 Oh, did you?

02:12:39.000 Read the American Buffalo.

02:12:40.000 I heard it's excellent.

02:12:42.000 It's a fascinating read.

02:12:42.000 He's got a great podcast, too.

02:12:43.000 The American Buffalo is tragic.

02:12:45.000 Yeah, it is.

02:12:46.000 And he spells it out so well.

02:12:48.000 Well, he had this guy on his podcast, Dan Flores, who is a wildlife biologist, wildlife historian, I should say.

02:12:55.000 It's an amazing podcast where he details the history of animals and European settlers coming over here and wiping out of the various animals and what's being done to try to restore that. 0.75

02:13:06.000 They're trying to do something called the American Serengeti, where they're trying to put together an area, a protected area as big as Yellowstone, but that's actually going to involve hunting.

02:13:16.000 Really?

02:13:17.000 Yeah.

02:13:17.000 They're buying property right now in Montana.

02:13:19.000 I mean, it's going on.

02:13:20.000 What's it going to be?

02:13:21.000 Well, I don't know that much about it.

02:13:23.000 I only just bought a property that's not very far from where you guys were there.

02:13:28.000 It's in block management.

02:13:29.000 You're allowed to hunt it, but I think they're pulling the cattle off it.

02:13:33.000 Oh, got it.

02:13:34.000 But, you know, that's a huge success story right there.

02:13:36.000 I mean, those sheep were planted back in the 1970s.

02:13:38.000 It's probably the biggest herd in Montana and certainly the best sheep hunting in the world.

02:13:44.000 They were planted in there in the 70s and started hunting in about 1990. They restarted hunting again.

02:13:51.000 They were totally brought back money from an auction tag, put a transplant in there and they've exploded onto the landscape.

02:13:58.000 They were shot out by market hunting and domestic sheep interaction years ago and then brought back and now it's the best place in the world.

02:14:06.000 That wouldn't happen without hunters.

02:14:07.000 Yeah, it is an amazing success story.

02:14:09.000 And that's also an interesting thing, these auction tags, which is really weird, where you let someone, you give them this opportunity to hunt, and a lot of times these guys are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars.

02:14:21.000 I got the most expensive tag in history, $485,000.

02:14:24.000 Right there, Missouri Breaks.

02:14:26.000 What?

02:14:27.000 2013. He wanted those balls. 0.99

02:14:30.000 There was a huge ram, there was three of us that guided it. 0.99

02:14:37.000 A guy paid $485.

02:14:40.000 The money thing about that is really weird.

02:14:43.000 It's his perception of some rich dude.

02:14:45.000 You're paying for an opportunity to bypass the system to do something that you would normally have to draw.

02:14:50.000 It's as simple as that.

02:14:51.000 It's not like, I'm going to spend this huge amount of money and It's this huge head hunt and this ego thing.

02:14:57.000 There's so many misconceptions about what goes on with that type of thing that it's not even funny.

02:15:02.000 It's a tax write-off.

02:15:03.000 It's a donation to wildlife if you really care about wildlife.

02:15:06.000 And it gives the guy an opportunity to take...

02:15:09.000 And again, if you're a billionaire, if you've made a ton of money and you care about wildlife and you love to hunt, why would you not do that?

02:15:16.000 It's not that weird.

02:15:18.000 It's all relative.

02:15:20.000 It's money and it's a donation.

02:15:22.000 Yes, we had this big sheep.

02:15:23.000 We spent 18 days hunting.

02:15:24.000 It's the biggest one ever been killed with an auction tag in the United States.

02:15:28.000 It was a phenomenal hunt.

02:15:29.000 The guy was glad to donate the money.

02:15:32.000 It's provided new sheep transplants.

02:15:34.000 Money for wildlife that would not exist if they didn't do it.

02:15:37.000 It's one tag and raised a half a million dollars.

02:15:39.000 Well, that's the big contradiction when people talk about hunting and hunting being for conservation and how it helps conservation.

02:15:45.000 That is one of the biggest examples of it is how much money goes into helping these animals and habitat preservation and reintroducing them to areas like what the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation has done with reintroducing elk to a bunch of different places.

02:15:59.000 Sheep is the biggest success in North America.

02:16:01.000 I mean, they were shot.

02:16:02.000 Basically into a few places, and they've brought them back through.

02:16:05.000 And it's strongly been through money by guys that are fortunate enough to be able to do it.

02:16:10.000 It's a total misconception.

02:16:12.000 I mean, you are paying, the guy is paying money as a tax donation, and he's giving money to something he truly cares about, that he loves, and has probably grown up doing.

02:16:21.000 This guy was self-made, started painting boards in West Virginia, and started a bank and made a billion dollars.

02:16:27.000 He loves hunting.

02:16:28.000 That's what he loves to do.

02:16:29.000 It's not some rich guy paying to You know, put a head on his wall and he was glad to do it.

02:16:34.000 And you're paying for the opportunity.

02:16:36.000 I mean, the thing that's always lost in it is the dead animal or whatever.

02:16:39.000 The guy's paying for the opportunity.

02:16:41.000 We had no advantage over anybody else.

02:16:43.000 It was the same season everybody else did.

02:16:45.000 And the guy, we ended up killing, you know, a great big ram, which was, you know, obviously the goal.

02:16:50.000 But, I mean, one sheep raised a half a million dollars.

02:16:53.000 That's incredible.

02:16:54.000 And the guy, he was paying for the opportunity.

02:16:57.000 It'd be a hell of a lot easier to buy a great big head to put on your wall than it would to spend that much money and then go out there and maybe not get them.

02:17:05.000 But the pursuit is what drives them.

02:17:09.000 And how does that work?

02:17:10.000 There's three guides.

02:17:11.000 So did you guys scout in advance and find big sheep?

02:17:15.000 That was the unique situation.

02:17:17.000 It's basically a three-year story of following one ram.

02:17:20.000 This ram we call B-52. 0.97

02:17:22.000 And in 2010, a friend of ours was with a guy who killed a ram up in the brakes, same deal, exact same area you were in, and there was a big ram standing with it.

02:17:32.000 There was two big rams together, he killed one of them.

02:17:34.000 And the next year when we were up there scouting, we came across this ram, like, that's the same ram in the photo.

02:17:41.000 They took a photo right before they killed it.

02:17:43.000 And then we tried to hunt him in 2012, didn't get him.

02:17:46.000 And in 2013, it was like this ram, he was really big, and then he slipped through two years.

02:17:51.000 Nobody got him.

02:17:51.000 Smart old sheep.

02:17:53.000 I mean, really smart.

02:17:55.000 And it was all of a sudden, you know, we let a few guys know that, hey, there's not an unusually big ram up here.

02:18:02.000 And if you want a chance to hunt it, it's unique in the time frame and the fact that There's not always big sheep around.

02:18:08.000 I mean, this is one year, this ram is alive right now, and we told a few guys, and five guys went, you know, there was five guys that were willing to pay half a million dollars.

02:18:16.000 I mean, there was five guys bid in over $460,000 for the opportunity to hunt this area.

02:18:24.000 Look at the size of that thing!

02:18:26.000 Oh my god!

02:18:28.000 There you go.

02:18:29.000 The horns on that thing are insane!

02:18:33.000 Yeah, Willie Hettinger, Al McKinney, and myself.

02:18:35.000 I mean, we spent 18 days like rattlesnakes out there, and it was an awesome hunt.

02:18:41.000 I mean, it was a smart old ram.

02:18:43.000 It was just a really cool deal, and we ended up getting it.

02:18:47.000 How far did he take it from?

02:18:49.000 He almost killed it with a bow.

02:18:52.000 What? 0.99

02:18:52.000 I snuck him into 12 yards, came over the top on it, and a resident hunter Being a dick, came down the ridge and spooked the sheep, spotted us, knew we were hunting a sheep, and came down and spooked the ram, but he should have killed it with a bow. 0.99

02:19:09.000 A resident hunter with a sheep tag? 0.98

02:19:10.000 With a sheep tag, yeah.

02:19:11.000 Did he do it on purpose?

02:19:13.000 Yeah, I think so.

02:19:14.000 I mean, if you saw three guys and you knew that they had a guy with them that had paid $485,000 to be there...

02:19:21.000 And he knew all this?

02:19:21.000 You would probably think, I'm probably in the right area.

02:19:24.000 Right.

02:19:25.000 I'm going to follow these guys. 0.99

02:19:26.000 Yeah, no shit. 0.99

02:19:27.000 But that's why it gets weird with public land, right? 0.99

02:19:29.000 It does.

02:19:30.000 That ram bugged out.

02:19:31.000 We killed him 10 days later, 9 miles from where they are.

02:19:34.000 And how far was the shot when he killed him?

02:19:37.000 He shot him at 460. That's a different ram. 0.96

02:19:39.000 Oh, wow.

02:19:39.000 That's a different ram.

02:19:40.000 Goddamn, that thing's massive too. 0.98

02:19:42.000 So I was fortunate to be on both of those. 0.98

02:19:46.000 That's two of the top five sheep ever killed in Montana in 10 days.

02:19:49.000 They are just majestic beasts.

02:19:51.000 When you look at what nature has given them in their head, like what a crazy animal. 0.67

02:19:57.000 They developed these gigantic battering rams out of the top of their skull.

02:20:01.000 And the photos really don't do those things justice.

02:20:03.000 No.

02:20:04.000 You put your hands on those horns. 0.99

02:20:05.000 I mean, it's impressive.

02:20:06.000 Both 11 and a half years old.

02:20:08.000 I mean, that's the end of his life.

02:20:09.000 I mean, he's run his full course.

02:20:11.000 That ram actually did not rut at all.

02:20:13.000 That ram had a broken shoulder.

02:20:15.000 And we had seen him for a couple years and he had a really small body and he was actually a non-dominant sheep and was just kind of floating around out there.

02:20:21.000 He was physically past his prime.

02:20:24.000 So did he like fall or something?

02:20:26.000 A hunting accident maybe?

02:20:27.000 Hard to say.

02:20:28.000 It's hard to say.

02:20:29.000 Yeah I mean they have a tough life.

02:20:31.000 Yeah they do.

02:20:32.000 For an animal like that to live that long Nature is so incredible in its diversity that this is something that we have here in North America, this incredible animal, just a strange looking...

02:20:42.000 We're so used to them, we know they exist, so I don't think we kind of appreciate them as much as if you were just introduced to them as an adult, if you'd never heard of or seen it before, it'd probably blow you away.

02:20:55.000 Totally.

02:20:55.000 It's like, what a crazy animal.

02:20:56.000 It's got a battering ram on its head. 0.96

02:20:58.000 It does.

02:20:59.000 I always say, like, with desert sheep, you know, they have this tiny little neck, and it's like, when you see one out in the desert, a desert sheep, a big ram, it's like, they wouldn't look any stranger if they were green.

02:21:08.000 Like, if they landed on Mars, if they landed on Mars, and all of a sudden there was a desert sheep pop to set up, you'd be like, that's about what I thought it'd be here. 1.00

02:21:15.000 Yeah.

02:21:16.000 It's rocky and dry, and his neck's this big, and he's got a 50-pound head.

02:21:20.000 Like, yeah, that's about what I thought.

02:21:21.000 Have you ever seen the video where the ram and the cow butt heads?

02:21:24.000 I haven't.

02:21:25.000 Jamie?

02:21:27.000 There's a video, a crazy video, where this ram starts moving towards this cow and the cow's calf, and the cow decides it's going to headbutt this ram.

02:21:34.000 Watch this.

02:21:35.000 Go full screen.

02:21:37.000 Check this out.

02:21:38.000 Watch. 1.00

02:21:38.000 The ram comes into vision, and the cow's like, fuck this. 1.00

02:21:42.000 So it sees it. 1.00

02:21:44.000 Watch this.

02:21:47.000 Knocks the cow out.

02:21:49.000 KO'd him.

02:21:50.000 And he gets up.

02:21:51.000 I can't tell if that's a bull.

02:21:53.000 Is it a bull or a cow?

02:21:54.000 I can't tell.

02:21:55.000 It's hard to tell.

02:21:55.000 It's a blurry-ass picture.

02:21:57.000 Or a blurry-ass video.

02:21:58.000 But just this tiny little thing that weighs about 150 pounds.

02:22:01.000 The cow's much more than 1,000.

02:22:03.000 And KO's it with a headbutt. 0.89

02:22:05.000 I've seen rams that had their skulls broken.

02:22:09.000 Entire horn torn off.

02:22:10.000 The amount of power.

02:22:12.000 They get up and...

02:22:14.000 When they hit, and then there's like this state of right after a guy, you know, right after you take a huge uppercut, and they just stand there and kind of go, oh.

02:22:22.000 And then they kind of come back, and they're like, all right, let's do that again.

02:22:25.000 I didn't get enough of that.

02:22:27.000 They've got CTE. Yeah.

02:22:29.000 Oh, for sure.

02:22:30.000 Don't do a football study on them.

02:22:31.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:22:32.000 You kind of wonder, like, what crazy design?

02:22:35.000 Nature has figured out a way to have all these various different designs.

02:22:38.000 Here they go, BOOM! And they just stand there.

02:22:42.000 Look at this collision!

02:22:44.000 That's when to make your stalk right then. 0.88

02:22:46.000 Well, one of these dummies needs to figure out how to dive under and get an uppercut going. 1.00

02:22:51.000 Get some leverage. 0.85

02:22:52.000 Yeah, just like, don't headbutt them.

02:22:54.000 Juke them.

02:22:55.000 You gotta juke them and then slide under. 1.00

02:22:58.000 You're talking about the balls. 0.99

02:22:59.000 Bighorn sheep have two moves. 0.99

02:23:01.000 So it's this move right here, and then when they're posturing and kicking each other around, their other move is they get behind each other and smash each other in the balls. 0.94

02:23:07.000 The front kick to the nuts is a bighorn sheep. 0.99

02:23:10.000 Look at the balls. 0.99

02:23:11.000 Look at the balls in these things. 0.99

02:23:12.000 Watch this. 0.99

02:23:12.000 Boom. 0.99

02:23:13.000 Look at these nuts.

02:23:15.000 Look at these nuts.

02:23:16.000 Look at these nuts hanging.

02:23:17.000 If I had nuts like that, I'd never wear pants.

02:23:19.000 I'd be like, everybody just deal with what I've got here.

02:23:21.000 And you wouldn't be doing a podcast.

02:23:23.000 You'd be doing videos.

02:23:25.000 I'd be in the poem business, son.

02:23:27.000 And that echoes for the sheep I hunted last fall.

02:23:29.000 That's how I actually found them.

02:23:31.000 Oh, you heard it?

02:23:32.000 In the middle of the night.

02:23:33.000 Boom! 0.99

02:23:33.000 It sounds like gunshots going off. 0.99

02:23:35.000 Really?

02:23:36.000 And I got up, and yeah, it took me four hours to figure out where they were, because it echoes all over.

02:23:40.000 But about every 25 minutes, you hear, boom!

02:23:42.000 And it just sounds just like a gunshot.

02:23:44.000 And it's like, okay, they're there.

02:23:45.000 And you start honing it in, and boom, there they were.

02:23:48.000 Wow.

02:23:48.000 Ten rams, and they were butting heads.

02:23:50.000 Yeah.

02:23:50.000 It's pretty cool.

02:23:51.000 Like, little things like that.

02:23:52.000 It's like, you just...

02:23:54.000 So cool.

02:23:54.000 Well, being out there in the wild, you get to experience firsthand the diversity of all these wild, like mule deer with their incredible racks, or elk, or bighorn sheep, and there's so many bizarre creations.

02:24:07.000 There it is.

02:24:07.000 And so much diversity.

02:24:08.000 Oh, they're hitting each other in the balls. 0.99

02:24:09.000 Oh, yeah. 0.99

02:24:10.000 How rude.

02:24:11.000 Look at it. 1.00

02:24:13.000 He's just kicking them in the balls. 1.00

02:24:15.000 He's like, fuck you. 1.00

02:24:16.000 I'm going to get behind you and kick you in the balls. 1.00

02:24:18.000 He's like, no, no, no, no, no. 1.00

02:24:19.000 I already know that move.

02:24:20.000 And they just spin it around each other.

02:24:21.000 Every time. 0.99

02:24:22.000 He's kicking the other sheep in the balls. 0.99

02:24:26.000 Yeah, they don't get five minutes like you do at UFC if you get kicked in the balls. 0.99

02:24:29.000 Oh, yeah. 0.97

02:24:29.000 They've got no timeouts. 0.97

02:24:30.000 No timeouts.

02:24:31.000 It's hilarious. 0.99

02:24:32.000 They know that they have balls, so they go to attack them. 1.00

02:24:35.000 How the fuck did they figure that out? 1.00

02:24:37.000 How do they know? 1.00

02:24:38.000 I guess they know that they have balls. 0.99

02:24:40.000 Dude, you have balls that big, you're going to figure that out. 1.00

02:24:42.000 Yeah, I guess. 0.98

02:24:43.000 Something's going to hit those things. 1.00

02:24:44.000 But what a bunch of dickheads. 0.98

02:24:46.000 They're fascinating, too. 0.99

02:24:48.000 When they're in the rut, they're a totally different animal than when they're early.

02:24:53.000 When they get late in the year and start chasing, they just go insane. 0.84

02:24:58.000 Isn't that also bizarre that they have a season where they have to have sex? 0.91

02:25:02.000 Where you lose your mind? 0.92

02:25:03.000 Yeah.

02:25:03.000 Once a year?

02:25:04.000 I mean, we got that, too.

02:25:05.000 Let's sort of.

02:25:06.000 Yeah, but we get to do it all the time.

02:25:08.000 It's called college. 0.99

02:25:08.000 And we can jerk off. 0.99

02:25:09.000 You know, you can alleviate it yourself so you can think clearly. 1.00

02:25:12.000 But these poor bastards, you know... 1.00

02:25:14.000 Wait, all year? 1.00

02:25:15.000 Yeah, all year. 0.57

02:25:16.000 No wonder they go nuts.

02:25:17.000 Yeah, just getting ready. 1.00

02:25:19.000 No wonder their balls are so big. 1.00

02:25:20.000 And they're born with weapons. 0.99

02:25:23.000 And as they get older, the more dominant ones have the bigger weapons.

02:25:27.000 What a strange system that nature's figured out.

02:25:30.000 It is, isn't it?

02:25:31.000 And it's also strange to me how you see when it's all over, they bachelor up.

02:25:35.000 When the rut's over, we went moose hunting in BC last year, and when the rut was over, we found these bachelor groups of moose that probably were trying to kill each other just a couple weeks ago.

02:25:44.000 Well, you know, as though you beat up somebody, your best friend's after, right?

02:25:46.000 I guess.

02:25:47.000 You don't bang his girlfriend either.

02:25:49.000 I don't think anybody has a claim on any of them.

02:25:51.000 They're all just running around trying to score. 0.94

02:25:53.000 But I think when it's all over, they're probably like, what the fuck were we doing just a couple of weeks ago? 0.97

02:25:59.000 Yeah, exactly. 0.92

02:25:59.000 What came over us? 0.92

02:26:01.000 I think they knew.

02:26:03.000 I know, but it's just strange that it comes over them once a year.

02:26:06.000 And it's so strong.

02:26:08.000 And the rest of the time, a big ram wants nothing.

02:26:12.000 If you're sheep hunting the rest of the year and you see and use, you're in the wrong spot.

02:26:17.000 They want nothing to do with them.

02:26:19.000 Really?

02:26:19.000 I don't blame them.

02:26:20.000 Same with big bull elk.

02:26:22.000 They serve their purpose.

02:26:24.000 Same with bull elk.

02:26:25.000 Aside from the rut and a few times where they interact, the rest of the time, if you're seeing tons of cows, you're in the wrong spot, dude.

02:26:32.000 Well, that's what I told you about when I was in Montana.

02:26:34.000 We saw a hundred elk together, all cows.

02:26:37.000 This time, yeah, no bulls.

02:26:38.000 All cows, yeah.

02:26:39.000 Or little spikes or something.

02:26:40.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:26:41.000 I saw like one spike.

02:26:42.000 It's just so fascinating, the diversity, that nature's created so many different animals like that.

02:26:49.000 Well, and hunting gives us the opportunity to truly see it as it is.

02:26:52.000 Oh, yeah.

02:26:52.000 Versus like a national park or Yellowstone.

02:26:55.000 Yeah, to see it as it is, up close, in its natural habitat, when it's quiet, and you get to see those things.

02:27:01.000 The way it's been for so long.

02:27:04.000 Don't you feel like when you sneak up on an animal too, and you lock eyes with that thing, you almost feel like you're in...

02:27:11.000 It almost feels like a different dimension or something like that.

02:27:14.000 Because you're in this world that they exist in, and there's no cell phone service, there's no people anywhere near you.

02:27:21.000 It's a very strange environment.

02:27:23.000 It is.

02:27:24.000 It is.

02:27:24.000 And it's like everything else gets tuned out, too.

02:27:27.000 It's like this laser focus of what's happening right then.

02:27:30.000 All your senses go way up, at least for me, as far as smell.

02:27:34.000 And you can feel the slightest breeze in your face.

02:27:37.000 You know, you can see that animal move really, really close like you'd never would notice before because of that laser focus intensity just kind of takes over your whole system.

02:27:47.000 And there's something about tricking an animal that's whole focus in life is to not get caught.

02:27:53.000 That is a great sense of feeling like you do everything right in the right place and this thing walks by and like, oh, and arrows already on the way.

02:28:00.000 It's done deal.

02:28:01.000 It's like you did it.

02:28:03.000 I mean, you outsmarted something that's Ten million years were the genetics, especially with bow hunting.

02:28:09.000 You got in that close and got them.

02:28:11.000 Not only that, we're clumsy. 0.99

02:28:13.000 Our noses suck. 0.95

02:28:14.000 We can't see very good. 1.00

02:28:15.000 Our hearing's dog shit. 1.00

02:28:17.000 They have ears like satellite dishes. 1.00

02:28:19.000 They're spinning around left and right, looking all over the place trying to find you.

02:28:23.000 Like a mule deer, in particular.

02:28:25.000 Those giant ears.

02:28:26.000 Well, and their nose. 0.67

02:28:27.000 Yeah.

02:28:27.000 Oh, yeah.

02:28:28.000 The power of scent is crazy.

02:28:30.000 You've seen the craziest stuff at the farthest distances.

02:28:33.000 Hundreds and hundreds of yards. 1.00

02:28:35.000 They say, fuck this. 1.00

02:28:36.000 Done. 1.00

02:28:37.000 What?

02:28:38.000 Yeah.

02:28:38.000 And you think the wind's blowing in your face and it's actually going around the mountain and ends up right back at it.

02:28:43.000 It's just amazing what happens.

02:28:44.000 People are like, oh, you're out there hunting, chasing a poor, defenseless animal.

02:28:47.000 It ain't defenseless.

02:28:48.000 If it was defenseless, I'd have way more big ones.

02:28:51.000 Right.

02:28:52.000 You know?

02:28:53.000 I'd always get them if they were defenseless.

02:28:55.000 I mean, they're a smart...

02:28:57.000 I mean, man, I've seen them...

02:28:59.000 You know, I've hunted animals where they got one whiffy or gone.

02:29:03.000 Yeah.

02:29:04.000 And, like, gone for days?

02:29:05.000 No.

02:29:06.000 Gone.

02:29:06.000 Never saw them again.

02:29:07.000 Gone.

02:29:08.000 He figured me out.

02:29:09.000 Gone.

02:29:09.000 They're around wolves.

02:29:10.000 Totally.

02:29:11.000 You know?

02:29:12.000 Bears.

02:29:12.000 Yeah.

02:29:13.000 Mountain lions.

02:29:14.000 I've seen deer do some crazy things, like lay down on the ground and, like, hide from hunters and let hunters walk right by them, like, within yards.

02:29:20.000 Wow.

02:29:21.000 And just do some really cool stuff.

02:29:22.000 Sneak away from people, and you go, those guys never knew they were five yards away from a giant buck, and that thing just totally outsmarted them.

02:29:29.000 It's the coolest thing.

02:29:30.000 Yeah, they're tuned in, man. 1.00

02:29:32.000 Dumb humans walking by. 1.00

02:29:33.000 He's like, no problem. 1.00

02:29:34.000 I'll just lay down.

02:29:35.000 They'll never see me.

02:29:36.000 Just imagine if you were a 300-pound animal that had escaped something killing you all the time. 0.99

02:29:41.000 That's your every day is try to get some grass in your system and get the fuck away from everything that wants to eat you. 0.99

02:29:46.000 Yeah, right? 0.99

02:29:46.000 Once a year. 0.99

02:29:47.000 Totally.

02:29:47.000 Try and get laid once a year.

02:29:49.000 Yeah. 0.95

02:29:50.000 Polygamist.

02:29:50.000 Yeah.

02:29:51.000 Definitely not, you know.

02:29:52.000 You're sleeping outside in Montana.

02:29:54.000 Yeah.

02:29:54.000 In the winter.

02:29:55.000 Yeah.

02:29:56.000 Yeah.

02:29:57.000 I think it's amazing and we're so lucky in this country that the people like Teddy Roosevelt and the people that founded these areas for public land, they set them aside and allowed these places to be established where these animals can live and we never have to worry about them being taken over and they build malls there.

02:30:17.000 I mean, it's a really beautiful part of America.

02:30:19.000 Even if you don't have any desire whatsoever to hunt, the fact that you can go up there and backpack and camp and That's awesome.

02:30:26.000 And be in that natural environment.

02:30:27.000 It's a really beautiful thing about America.

02:30:29.000 Totally.

02:30:30.000 Yeah, I mean, the perception of hunters were just out there to kill something.

02:30:33.000 For me, it's a small part of the whole thing.

02:30:36.000 It's a good part, though.

02:30:37.000 It is, but it's being out there, too.

02:30:40.000 Yeah, it is definitely being out there, too.

02:30:41.000 And the drive to be there and to get to experience all that.

02:30:43.000 I mean, obviously, I wouldn't be there without a tag.

02:30:44.000 I get invited to go hiking or go to a park all the time or, you know, a national park.

02:30:48.000 I'm not interested, but...

02:30:50.000 I mean, being out in the mountains and the wilderness and seeing all this stuff is just awesome.

02:30:54.000 Yeah, it's not like if you go hunting and it's unsuccessful, it's a zero.

02:30:57.000 It's like a six.

02:30:58.000 It's like a six out of ten.

02:31:00.000 If you get a big elk, it's a ten.

02:31:02.000 But if you go out there and nothing happens, it's like, uh, who's a six? 0.96

02:31:06.000 Hiking's a four, so it's two points above a hike.

02:31:09.000 Armed hiking, we call it.

02:31:10.000 Especially if you actually see the animals.

02:31:12.000 If you don't see the animals, it's like a five. 0.96

02:31:14.000 If you don't see anything, you're like, what the fuck we're doing in this spot? 0.97

02:31:17.000 If you don't see anything, you need new friends. 0.98

02:31:19.000 Yes, somebody's been lying to you.

02:31:22.000 Or just something happened, you know, you never know.

02:31:25.000 Now these bighorn sheep, they're very difficult to get a tag for, right, in Montana?

02:31:29.000 There's so many of them now, though.

02:31:32.000 Yeah, but there's still not enough to go around.

02:31:34.000 It's the most exclusive tag in the world.

02:31:37.000 How many do they give out?

02:31:38.000 In Montana, they give out 150 a year.

02:31:40.000 I drew one last year.

02:31:42.000 The odds in the best place are like 1 in 500. It's a lottery system.

02:31:47.000 And then the odds in the roughest areas that have better odds are like 1 in 100. One in 500. That's incredible.

02:31:55.000 So Brendan drew a sheep tag in Montana to hunt one sheep.

02:31:58.000 Yep.

02:31:59.000 You had one sheep in mind? 0.56

02:32:00.000 And the entire unit.

02:32:01.000 Yep.

02:32:02.000 He showed me the picture of it when he drew the tag. 0.95

02:32:04.000 He goes, I'm going to kill this sheep.

02:32:05.000 How did you know about this sheep? 0.98

02:32:06.000 And guess what?

02:32:07.000 You killed it. 0.97

02:32:07.000 This sheep's dead. 0.97

02:32:08.000 You're a savage. 1.00

02:32:09.000 Totally. 0.99

02:32:10.000 I was like, I'm so glad I'm not that sheep right now when you drew that tag.

02:32:14.000 When they lose their mind once a year, they come out to the Winter Range.

02:32:17.000 And a buddy of mine, Robbie Doctor, had found this ram on the Winter Range.

02:32:22.000 She sent me a picture of it and said, dude, you know, this is a huge ram in an unusual area.

02:32:28.000 And we applied for it.

02:32:29.000 I mean, it's happened before.

02:32:31.000 Like, oh, there's a big sheep.

02:32:31.000 Nobody knows it.

02:32:32.000 We didn't tell anybody.

02:32:33.000 And then he showed up again the next year, didn't draw the tag.

02:32:36.000 And then last year I drew it and was like, I drew the tag and was like, he's on the outer edge of the life expectancy of a sheep.

02:32:42.000 You know, it's a 500 square mile area.

02:32:44.000 I'm going in there.

02:32:45.000 As long as it takes 500 square miles to hunt, one sheep.

02:32:49.000 Isn't that mind-blowing?

02:32:50.000 That's pretty crazy.

02:32:51.000 Think about that.

02:32:52.000 Well, that is the ultimate pursuit, right?

02:32:53.000 Totally.

02:32:54.000 We're talking about the most difficult challenge of hunting.

02:32:56.000 With a bow.

02:32:57.000 Yeah.

02:32:58.000 How many yards did you get him from?

02:33:01.000 Just outside my effective range.

02:33:03.000 Long shot.

02:33:04.000 I snuck into 15 yards for 20 minutes.

02:33:07.000 It took me 24 days to find him.

02:33:09.000 I passed up 33 8-year-old or better rams.

02:33:12.000 How many days did you spend scouting, too?

02:33:13.000 Oh, I mean, I lost track of time.

02:33:16.000 I mean, I put on, I mean, a crazy amount of money.

02:33:19.000 What job do you have?

02:33:20.000 We all need one of those.

02:33:22.000 He said, he said, he's like, when I was like, dude, I drew the tag and like, I was emotional.

02:33:28.000 I drew it like, I mean, people don't understand like, oh, you got a tag to hunt this thing.

02:33:32.000 It's like 25 years in a row.

02:33:35.000 Of no's.

02:33:36.000 Right.

02:33:36.000 And how many people put in for the tag?

02:33:38.000 And there's 150 tags available?

02:33:39.000 150 tags in the whole state.

02:33:41.000 The whole state.

02:33:42.000 And how many people put in?

02:33:42.000 Two tags in this area.

02:33:43.000 Two tags?

02:33:44.000 Two tags.

02:33:44.000 So you got one of two tags?

02:33:45.000 Two tags.

02:33:46.000 220 people applied for two tags and I drew one.

02:33:49.000 Wow.

02:33:49.000 It was like amazing.

02:33:51.000 And I had a picture of this ram and he had showed up on the winter range and then disappeared into this abyss called the Bob Marshall Wilderness.

02:33:58.000 And it's like, I'm going to go in there and find him.

02:34:01.000 And how many total days were you hunting?

02:34:03.000 I mean, 24 days hunting.

02:34:05.000 I hunted 24 days. 0.97

02:34:06.000 How many scouting days you had was like ridiculous. 0.77

02:34:09.000 So you going back and getting food and going back in again?

02:34:11.000 Yeah, I was doing four or five days at a time. 0.99

02:34:13.000 Like all good things, like all the most amazing things, timing's kind of a bitch. 0.97

02:34:18.000 We had a baby do. 0.91

02:34:22.000 In the middle of it. 1.00

02:34:22.000 My wife would fucking kill me! 1.00

02:34:24.000 Out there chasing one. 1.00

02:34:26.000 Did you see any other rams?

02:34:27.000 Yeah, but it wasn't quite big enough. 1.00

02:34:29.000 You piece of shit. 1.00

02:34:30.000 33. I passed up 33 rams before I... Push. 1.00

02:34:35.000 On the cell phone!

02:34:41.000 So yeah, I mean I was after this one sheep and I thought, and you know like when you talk about really getting to know animals, he had showed up on the winter range and twice.

02:34:49.000 We had pictures of him two years in a row on the winter range and it's just like okay we got a picture of this big ram.

02:34:54.000 Well, you know, I start looking at the pictures and comparing them and all of a sudden I noticed that in one picture from 2013, or from 2012 and one in 2013, he had the same two young rams with him.

02:35:07.000 A year apart, 10 miles apart in distance, and he had the same two sheep with him.

02:35:11.000 So all of a sudden I'm like...

02:35:12.000 You know, most people would be like, oh, it's just a sheep, and then there's a little half curl, and then there's a young, kind of unique looking ram with them, and I'm looking like, it's the same ram.

02:35:21.000 So all of a sudden, I got a ram band that I'm looking for there.

02:35:23.000 You know, it's kind of a symbiotic relationship.

02:35:25.000 Young rams allow old rams, or old rams allow young rams to follow them around.

02:35:30.000 They show them kind of the hills, and they kind of tolerate them.

02:35:33.000 It's not like, hey, you're my buddy or anything.

02:35:35.000 They just kind of like, when the senses start to slip, you'll see old rams with young rams.

02:35:39.000 And they're keeping an eye on their back for them.

02:35:42.000 Oh, I see.

02:35:43.000 So I figured out this ram who was 13 years old, which is the oldest.

02:35:48.000 So I ended up killing him, obviously, and he was 13 years old, which is the oldest ram killed in the whole state of 150 by two years.

02:35:54.000 So he's off the charts old.

02:35:57.000 So he had these two young rams with him.

02:36:01.000 Basically, knowing enough about sheep behavior, I was like, okay, I'm looking for this old ram in this massive area, but I'm actually looking for three sheep.

02:36:08.000 Because if I see either of those two young rams without him, I'll know he's dead.

02:36:11.000 It makes a big difference in 500 square miles to look for three sheep versus one, apparently, huh?

02:36:16.000 I guess. 0.98

02:36:17.000 Still ridiculous. 0.91

02:36:18.000 So I went in there and I was like, I'm going to go find every sheep in the entire unit. 0.69

02:36:21.000 And I went in there and I thoroughly believe that I found every single sheep in the area.

02:36:26.000 I counted almost 50 more sheep than the biologist thought was alive in there.

02:36:32.000 That's so crazy.

02:36:33.000 Isn't that nuts?

02:36:33.000 Did you take photos of these?

02:36:35.000 Oh yeah.

02:36:35.000 Did you get them to the biologist?

02:36:36.000 Yeah.

02:36:37.000 He's kind of changed his management plan in the area a little bit.

02:36:40.000 He knows more about it.

02:36:42.000 That's hilarious.

02:36:46.000 I went in there because since I was a little kid, it was like, man, that's something I always wanted to do.

02:36:52.000 You're going to get this opportunity.

02:36:53.000 I'm not going to go do the easiest thing.

02:36:55.000 I passed big rams, big rams with my bow.

02:36:57.000 I wanted this ram.

02:36:58.000 I wanted to have like an epic hunt and just to see if I could do it, see if I could find him.

02:37:03.000 And I hadn't found those young rams in the 23rd day.

02:37:07.000 I said I heard them popping heads, started glassing, cutting the timber apart, and all of a sudden, you know, another key to the puzzle, all of a sudden there's that little young ram that was with him standing in the timber.

02:37:17.000 Boom, I got him.

02:37:18.000 Go down there.

02:37:19.000 There's 10 rams in there.

02:37:20.000 My ram walks out.

02:37:21.000 That's him. 0.98

02:37:22.000 It took me two days to kill him, but I found him. 0.71

02:37:24.000 And you're doing all this by yourself?

02:37:25.000 I had my buddy that originally found the sheep.

02:37:29.000 When I found the rams, I called him.

02:37:31.000 He had a regular job.

02:37:33.000 It was about a 10-hour hike in.

02:37:36.000 He hiked in. 0.99

02:37:37.000 To help me hand signal and kill it. 0.99

02:37:39.000 That's a good friend. 1.00

02:37:40.000 Right? 0.99

02:37:40.000 Who'll hike in 10 fucking hours for you? 0.99

02:37:43.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:37:44.000 My friends would be like, dude, my wife just told me I gotta go walk the dog or something.

02:37:49.000 Yeah, dude, I'm busy. 0.99

02:37:50.000 Fucking hike in 10 hours for you, dude. 0.98

02:37:51.000 And pack it out for you. 1.00

02:37:53.000 Yeah.

02:37:54.000 It's a good friend.

02:37:55.000 He found the ram originally, and then I called him, and he disappeared.

02:37:59.000 He jumped off of work like his wife was in labor.

02:38:03.000 Jesus Christ.

02:38:04.000 Rolled out, like, I gotta go.

02:38:05.000 Are you guys on the same breeding cycle, like rams?

02:38:07.000 No, no, his wife, he left like that.

02:38:09.000 It was like, hey, my buddy found the ram, I gotta go.

02:38:12.000 And it's a Montana thing.

02:38:14.000 The guys that he works with were like, yeah, go, man, you gotta go.

02:38:16.000 But your wife was ready to pop. 0.98

02:38:18.000 No, we had had the baby.

02:38:19.000 Oh, you'd already had?

02:38:20.000 Yeah, we had the baby September 11th, so I had left like seven days.

02:38:25.000 I went out, and we had the baby, everything was great.

02:38:28.000 Yeah.

02:38:29.000 And then you left right after the baby was born.

02:38:31.000 It's almost even worse.

02:38:33.000 I stayed home, right?

02:38:34.000 You're sleeping well at night, honey? 0.99

02:38:35.000 I'm going to kill a sheep. 0.98

02:38:37.000 You know my wife, she was just like... 0.55

02:38:39.000 A couple days, we got everything settled back in.

02:38:42.000 She was basically like... 0.99

02:38:44.000 Get the fuck out of here. 0.99

02:38:46.000 Wow. 1.00

02:38:46.000 His wife's amazing. 1.00

02:38:47.000 That's amazing.

02:38:48.000 Yeah, she gets it.

02:38:49.000 Well, that's a good story to end this with because that sort of embodies what I appreciate about what you guys do.

02:38:54.000 That you guys are really like the one-tenth of the one-percenters of the outliers of the crazy people that are pursuing this as just an incredibly difficult biological puzzle.

02:39:06.000 It is.

02:39:07.000 It's so awesome.

02:39:08.000 I appreciate what you guys are doing.

02:39:09.000 We've got to get you on a sheep hunt, man.

02:39:11.000 I'll do it.

02:39:12.000 I'll do it.

02:39:12.000 I'm in.

02:39:13.000 Let's put one together.

02:39:14.000 Let's figure it out.

02:39:15.000 Let's definitely figure it out.

02:39:16.000 It's next level.

02:39:17.000 But listen, thank you guys for just being you.

02:39:20.000 And thanks for doing what you're doing.

02:39:21.000 Thanks for having us over. 0.92

02:39:22.000 Like I said, I love when people are just fucking going for it. 0.90

02:39:25.000 So this was a cool podcast for me. 0.98

02:39:27.000 It's life, man.

02:39:27.000 And it's cool to watch you guys geek out and see all your innovation.

02:39:31.000 And I just appreciate it.

02:39:33.000 Yeah, we appreciate it too.

02:39:34.000 Love the coverage.

02:39:35.000 Love what you do as far as exposing the world to hunting.

02:39:37.000 It's awesome, man.

02:39:38.000 My pleasure.

02:39:39.000 So, people want to get a hold of you, K-U-I-U, on Twitter, right? 0.95

02:39:44.000 Is that the Twitter handle?

02:39:46.000 I believe so, yeah.

02:39:47.000 That's the website?

02:39:48.000 And Kuyu on Instagram, and then our website, Kuyu.com.

02:39:50.000 All right.

02:39:51.000 Only place in the world you can get it.

02:39:52.000 There it is, folks.

02:39:54.000 Good night.

The Joe Rogan Experience - June 30, 2016

Joe Rogan Experience #817 - Jason Hairston & Brendan Burns

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