The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #822 - Chael Sonnen

00:00:04.000 Chael Sonnen, non-coffee enthusiast.

00:00:07.000 Coffee non-enthusiast?

00:00:08.000 Well, I drink it every day, and I like coffee, but I've got to doctor it a little bit.

00:00:13.000 You know, I've got coffee mates and the hazelnuts, and I've got to do all that stuff.

00:00:16.000 Do you use this jazz?

00:00:17.000 Stevia?

00:00:17.000 No, but may I? Stevia's good, yeah, please.

00:00:20.000 It's stronger than sugar, so don't put it in like you would do sugar, but it's completely natural, available everywhere, all sorts of health food stores and Whole Foods carries it.

00:00:31.000 It's just a plant-based sweetener.

00:00:34.000 Not sugar.

00:00:35.000 Not bad for you.

00:00:36.000 Doesn't give you the diabetes. 0.99

00:00:39.000 Doesn't fuck with you like aspartame does. 0.99

00:00:42.000 Some people don't like the taste of it, but I like it. 0.99

00:00:44.000 And the fact that I can get away with it, or I can drink it, and I know there's no sugar at all, I like it a lot.

00:00:49.000 Are they a sponsor?

00:00:49.000 Are we doing a plug right now?

00:00:50.000 No, it's just a plant.

00:00:51.000 So if I don't like it, I can say, I don't know about this stuff. 0.99

00:00:54.000 Say it sucks. 0.96

00:00:54.000 We don't even sell it. 0.96

00:00:58.000 I'm a fan of it.

00:00:59.000 So here's my theory on coffee, and I think this is true.

00:01:01.000 If coffee wasn't around, and I discovered it, and I sat you and Jamie down, and I slid a cup across the table and go try this, guys.

00:01:10.000 I want $50,000 from Bullity.

00:01:12.000 I'm going to build this coffee empire.

00:01:14.000 Taste this.

00:01:14.000 You go, you're out of your mind.

00:01:16.000 You want to give me a dollar.

00:01:17.000 And I go, no, no, no.

00:01:18.000 Not only am I going to sell this for a profit, I'm going to put sprinkles in it.

00:01:22.000 I'm going to put in a fancy cup.

00:01:24.000 I'm going to mix whipped cream on top and sell it at a 300% profit you could share.

00:01:28.000 Just get out.

00:01:29.000 I'll tell you, well, maybe, I mean, a very small niche market, maybe.

00:01:34.000 I mean, it's not like it's going to be everywhere.

00:01:36.000 It's not bad, right?

00:01:37.000 Yeah.

00:01:38.000 Stevia's good.

00:01:38.000 It's not bad.

00:01:39.000 It's got like a little bit of a bitterness to it.

00:01:41.000 It doesn't taste as good as sugar, but for me, it's a good compromise knowing that there's nothing negative about it.

00:01:48.000 So we're going.

00:01:49.000 This is how you start your show.

00:01:50.000 I like this.

00:01:51.000 No big introduction.

00:01:52.000 You just turn it on.

00:01:52.000 It's not necessary.

00:01:53.000 You're the man.

00:01:54.000 No one else could pull that off.

00:01:56.000 Everybody could.

00:01:57.000 They just needed to do it.

00:01:58.000 If you just didn't worry.

00:02:00.000 If everybody just didn't worry, they would just do it this way.

00:02:02.000 I suppose you're right.

00:02:03.000 So whatever will we talk about today?

00:02:05.000 I don't know.

00:02:06.000 Is there anything to talk about?

00:02:07.000 Is there anything going on?

00:02:08.000 No.

00:02:09.000 I mean, it just seems like it's just nothing happening.

00:02:13.000 It's just an average Monday with a couple of coffee drinkers here.

00:02:17.000 We're all trying to figure out if they're going to sell or not.

00:02:20.000 And I'm on the other side of the fence from a lot of the reports.

00:02:23.000 I'm going, God, I hope so.

00:02:24.000 What a cool thing.

00:02:25.000 I mean, they can sell all the work they put in, the risk, they built this industry.

00:02:28.000 Isn't that the ultimate thing you want to do with a business?

00:02:29.000 Day one when you sit down to start a business, you want to create something so cool somebody else wants to buy it.

00:02:34.000 Right.

00:02:34.000 So I'm on the other side of the fence.

00:02:35.000 All these reports were coming out like this was going to be earth-shattering news.

00:02:38.000 I'm going, this is going to be great.

00:02:40.000 If you like them, if they've done something for you and you're cheering for them, then cheer that this goes through, particularly if you retain Dana.

00:02:47.000 And that was the other part of the report, was that Dana was going to stay on.

00:02:49.000 Well, that's relevant.

00:02:50.000 There's not another guy alive that can run that.

00:02:54.000 And that's not some nice statement to Dana.

00:02:56.000 Dana, it's just the truth.

00:02:57.000 You can't go to a library and check out a book on fight promotion.

00:03:00.000 You can't go to any college and major in fight promotion.

00:03:03.000 You either know it or you don't.

00:03:04.000 Yeah, it's difficult.

00:03:06.000 And it requires all day.

00:03:08.000 Dana's working all day.

00:03:11.000 I'll call him at 1 o'clock in the morning, and he just got off the phone.

00:03:15.000 And he's doing deals, and he's making things happen.

00:03:18.000 And he's obsessed with it.

00:03:20.000 I mean, that guy really does love the business of putting together fights.

00:03:23.000 We'll talk randomly, just in the middle of nowhere, about fights for hours.

00:03:28.000 He just loves to talk fights.

00:03:29.000 He really is a big fan and obsessed and not burnt out yet, which is amazing. 0.96

00:03:35.000 Because the amount of hours that guy puts in, and obviously he's making a shitload of fucking money, but it's still, the amount of hours that he puts in, you would think he would be cooked by now. 0.88

00:03:45.000 Yeah, you would. 0.98

00:03:46.000 And I know what you mean.

00:03:47.000 1 a.m.

00:03:47.000 is a good time to get a hold of him.

00:03:48.000 I was in Brazil.

00:03:49.000 He called and woke me up.

00:03:51.000 I was doing the Ultimate Fighter.

00:03:52.000 He woke me up.

00:03:52.000 It was 4 a.m.

00:03:54.000 And I grabbed the phone, and he was talking business right away.

00:03:56.000 And I just said, Dana, I'm not here right now.

00:03:59.000 Whatever I agree to right now, I get a pass.

00:04:02.000 Because if you give him your word, that's it, right?

00:04:04.000 Right.

00:04:05.000 Whatever I agree to does not count.

00:04:06.000 I'm out of it.

00:04:07.000 It's 4 a.m.

00:04:08.000 And he goes, oh, man, it's 4 a.m.?

00:04:10.000 And I said, yeah.

00:04:11.000 And he goes, dude, I thought it was only two.

00:04:13.000 I'm really sorry for calling.

00:04:14.000 Right.

00:04:15.000 But he was serious, you know?

00:04:17.000 He was serious.

00:04:18.000 And so, it's like, okay, I get it, man.

00:04:20.000 If you're working, I'm...

00:04:21.000 And it was the office line.

00:04:22.000 It wasn't his cell line.

00:04:23.000 He was at the office.

00:04:25.000 And I'm going, okay, well, look, if you're going to work, then I got you, too.

00:04:28.000 What's 4 a.m.

00:04:28.000 in Brazil?

00:04:29.000 What time is that in America?

00:04:30.000 That's got to be 10. They're not that far ahead.

00:04:32.000 They're four or six hours.

00:04:33.000 I was in Sao Paulo.

00:04:34.000 Yeah.

00:04:35.000 So, it was still, you know, he's in there grinding.

00:04:38.000 That was a ballsy move of you to do the ultimate fighter in Brazil after you had talked... 0.98

00:04:44.000 Mad shit about virtually every legend that ever came out of Brazil. 0.97

00:04:51.000 Yeah, and to understand... 0.95

00:04:52.000 Thank you for saying that, but it's also relevant, Joe, to understand how big MMA is over there.

00:04:57.000 You get away with that here, and there's going to be some pockets that know exactly who you are, but...

00:05:02.000 It's going to be just that.

00:05:03.000 Pockets.

00:05:04.000 In Brazil, it's the number two sport behind soccer.

00:05:06.000 Everybody knows.

00:05:08.000 And I had armed security.

00:05:11.000 We went everywhere in bulletproof cars.

00:05:13.000 And one night, the guns came out.

00:05:17.000 And whatever bravado you think you have, or you think you will have...

00:05:23.000 When the guns come out, you find out it's not true.

00:05:27.000 You're scared.

00:05:28.000 What happened?

00:05:29.000 This is an actual move.

00:05:32.000 There's a name for this, and it's very common in Brazil, but we were going in traffic, and a guy cut in front of us, and then what they like to do is cut in front of you, slow down, and then you get boxed in, and they jump out and rob you.

00:05:41.000 So when the guy swerved over, we were in three lanes traffic, there was nobody else on the road, so when the guy cut in front of us, security knew what was going on, they pulled their gun out.

00:05:49.000 My wife was in the back, And she was sleeping.

00:05:52.000 She was laying down.

00:05:53.000 She had her feet across me.

00:05:54.000 And I woke her up.

00:05:57.000 And I said, he got his gun.

00:05:59.000 And there was an exit right up.

00:06:02.000 And the guy swerved over as quick as he cut in front of us, took the exit and was gone.

00:06:05.000 Nothing happened at all.

00:06:06.000 But in that moment, you find out when the guns come out, whatever macho-ness you think you're going to have in that situation, you don't have. 0.99

00:06:16.000 Were you thinking, like, why did I talk all that shit? 0.99

00:06:18.000 I'm just saying, yeah. 0.99

00:06:19.000 And I don't think it had, they had no way to know I was in the car.

00:06:22.000 I mean, I think they were just getting ready, or at least the security thought they were just getting ready to rob us, you know?

00:06:27.000 But, yeah.

00:06:28.000 Yeah.

00:06:29.000 I did.

00:06:30.000 Yeah.

00:06:30.000 Yeah, that's true.

00:06:32.000 You know, that's true.

00:06:33.000 It's like, hey, can nobody here take a joke?

00:06:36.000 Am I the only one that can take a joke?

00:06:38.000 But it ended up being a great time.

00:06:39.000 It ended up being a really great time.

00:06:40.000 The Ultimate Fighter just is in general.

00:06:42.000 I had the opportunity to do two of them.

00:06:43.000 But you build lifelong relationships.

00:06:46.000 You know, you stay friends with those guys.

00:06:47.000 You watch them being vulnerable.

00:06:50.000 You watch them putting their whole life...

00:06:52.000 Everything into it.

00:06:53.000 These guys leaving their families.

00:06:54.000 The first Ultimate Fighter I did, we had two holidays.

00:06:57.000 I'm counting Halloween as one.

00:06:59.000 I realize that isn't a holiday.

00:07:00.000 But if you have kids, that's a big day.

00:07:02.000 These guys leave their kids.

00:07:03.000 They don't get to see them dress up. 0.53

00:07:04.000 And then we had Thanksgiving.

00:07:05.000 They don't even get to call home.

00:07:07.000 One guy had the birth of his first child.

00:07:09.000 He did not get to call and check on his wife.

00:07:13.000 I mean, it's a big deal what goes on.

00:07:15.000 And they're very strict...

00:07:16.000 I don't know why they are, Joe.

00:07:17.000 I realize that for reality TV, that turmoilist builds something.

00:07:22.000 But I'm kind of looking at it going, you know what?

00:07:24.000 Let's do this little 9 to 5 deal.

00:07:26.000 Send them home.

00:07:27.000 Give them their cell phones.

00:07:28.000 Let these guys just be regular guys.

00:07:30.000 It's hard enough.

00:07:30.000 Well, the problem is people talk too much.

00:07:32.000 They tell too many secrets.

00:07:34.000 They explain what's going on.

00:07:35.000 They talk to press.

00:07:36.000 They give inside scoops that will only be revealed.

00:07:39.000 You know, I promise you this won't be revealed until the show goes to air. 0.57

00:07:42.000 There's a lot of fuckery that goes on with people that are on reality shows.

00:07:47.000 That's what they're trying to avoid. 0.93

00:07:48.000 That's a funny word. 0.99

00:07:49.000 Fuckery is one of my favorite words. 0.93

00:07:51.000 It's a great word. 0.96

00:07:52.000 Yeah, there's truth to that.

00:07:54.000 But your appearance on The Ultimate Fighter in Brazil with Vanderlei, too, it sort of changed.

00:08:00.000 Vanderlei's public opinion right now is very high.

00:08:04.000 People like him again. 0.96

00:08:06.000 And one of the reasons why they like him is because he got fucked over by the Nevada State Athletic Commission. 0.97

00:08:09.000 Hardcore. 0.99

00:08:10.000 They ban him for life from missing a drug test, which I just think is fucking tyranny. 1.00

00:08:15.000 I think that's straight bullshit. 1.00

00:08:17.000 I think that that is a fucking horrible miscarriage of justice. 1.00

00:08:21.000 If you think the guy was doing something, then you fine him and you ban him for the amount of time that you need to based on if he was guilty. 0.98

00:08:29.000 That's it.

00:08:30.000 You don't get to do life. 1.00

00:08:31.000 That's fucking crazy. 0.99

00:08:32.000 To be so callous, to show that you are a governing body and that you are taking care of the future of these athletes and supposedly protecting them from other athletes that are cheating or from whatever other nonsense, whatever other illegal activity might be going on, and to take that position of power and to Flagrantly abuse it in that way where you're openly showing them that you don't give a fuck about them. 1.00

00:08:58.000 You don't care about their career.

00:08:59.000 You don't care that it's the only way they have to make a living.

00:09:01.000 You're just going to ban them for life because they missed a drug test.

00:09:04.000 So let me give you another side to this too.

00:09:07.000 Vandele never told his side.

00:09:09.000 Vandele got pissed and he yelled and he went to...

00:09:11.000 He did all of these things, but he never just sat down and told his side calmly.

00:09:14.000 So here's Vandele's side.

00:09:16.000 And when you hear this...

00:09:19.000 You're going to side with Vandalay.

00:09:20.000 Here's what happened.

00:09:21.000 I was the first guy ever tested in this random out-of-competition testing.

00:09:27.000 So none of us knew what it was.

00:09:29.000 And you have to take that time into perspective because now guys understand, look, you get a knock on the door, you must comply.

00:09:35.000 But I was the first one ever tested.

00:09:37.000 We'd never heard of this.

00:09:37.000 A guy shows up.

00:09:39.000 Vandalay was to be the second one tested but didn't test.

00:09:43.000 In hindsight, I shouldn't have tested.

00:09:46.000 I'm not even sure they were within their rights.

00:09:48.000 And this is relevant.

00:09:49.000 They show up, the guy has no ID. Absolutely no identification of who he is.

00:09:56.000 I think that's a problem to start with.

00:09:57.000 That's a huge problem.

00:09:58.000 He then wants to take me into a back room, which ended up being a janitor's closet, not sanitary, a back room at the MGM Grand. 0.99

00:10:07.000 He takes me in there where I must de-robe and present to him my penis, because he watches. 0.99

00:10:12.000 Now, that's a very private thing. 0.99

00:10:14.000 No ID. He wants to see your dick. 1.00

00:10:17.000 Look, I understand now, and I think a lot more of us do, too, that you have to get naked and do this. 1.00

00:10:22.000 You've got all these weird things going on.

00:10:24.000 At that time though, that's a weird thing. 0.99

00:10:26.000 Now we're in the back of the MGM Grand in a dirty closet and I'm presenting to a stranger who refuses, not only doesn't offer ID, refused to give ID, and I tried to take a picture of the son of a bitch and he told me I could not do that. 0.99

00:10:41.000 Why I backed down and didn't take... 0.99

00:10:43.000 I don't know.

00:10:43.000 I just accepted his authority, but in hindsight...

00:10:45.000 Why didn't you call me?

00:10:46.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:10:47.000 I should have.

00:10:48.000 But I was caught off guard.

00:10:49.000 This had never been done before, and I'm kind of just going along, but I am caught off guard by this.

00:10:54.000 He then wants to stick a needle into your vein and draw blood.

00:11:00.000 I'm in a back, unsanitary room.

00:11:02.000 Anything I've ever learned in school, you don't do things with intravedous needles, you don't take...

00:11:07.000 This guy has no idea.

00:11:08.000 He's not in a lab coat, doesn't look the part at all.

00:11:11.000 So now I presented myself naked to him, and now he's got a needle in my vein, and I'm signing paperwork that I haven't had time to read.

00:11:19.000 So when he goes, now understand I speak English.

00:11:22.000 We at least speak the same language.

00:11:23.000 Also take into consideration the kind of guy, in fairness, the perfectly nice guy trying to feed his family, but in fairness, what kind of person says, I want to go around and collect people's pee?

00:11:34.000 It's It's an interesting kind of guy.

00:11:36.000 So I'm with an interesting character to start with.

00:11:39.000 Now I'm naked. 0.96

00:11:39.000 Now he's poking me with needles in a dirty backroom at the MGM Grand. 0.96

00:11:43.000 He leaves there and goes to test Vandalay.

00:11:46.000 Well, when you take everything I said into consideration, nobody knew about random testing.

00:11:50.000 Nobody knew about Assad.

00:11:51.000 Nobody knew anything about this at a competition.

00:11:53.000 So for Vandalay to go, hey, I don't know who you are.

00:11:55.000 You're not presenting ID. I don't fully understand you.

00:11:57.000 That's fair.

00:11:58.000 Yeah.

00:12:00.000 And Vandeley talked to him and said, you want me to sign a contract, get my attorney on the phone, show me what this thing says.

00:12:05.000 You know, he's kind of going through the – and the way the story was told is that Vandeley just turned and ran.

00:12:09.000 Well, that wasn't true.

00:12:10.000 He stood his ground and talked to this guy for a while.

00:12:12.000 He said, get on the phone with an attorney, prove to me who you are.

00:12:14.000 He did all of these things.

00:12:15.000 And then finally said, look, I've got to get to a press conference.

00:12:18.000 I'm leaving.

00:12:19.000 Got in his car and drove right to the MGM for the press conference.

00:12:23.000 I didn't have this backstory at the press conference, but that's what Vandele did.

00:12:25.000 So when the story came out that he turned and bolted out the back, that's not true.

00:12:29.000 He stood and talked to the guy.

00:12:30.000 He tried to reason with him.

00:12:32.000 Vandele's never told calmly his side of the story, and that's his side.

00:12:36.000 And that makes a lot of sense.

00:12:37.000 Even in today's standards, that makes sense.

00:12:39.000 But back then, when no one knew that drug testers could be showing up, and once they showed up that you needed to present yourself naked, that you needed to accept, you know, that they were going to draw blood, Yeah, man.

00:12:51.000 Vandley had the right to say, no, call my attorney.

00:12:54.000 I don't know what's going on here.

00:12:55.000 And the guy wouldn't show ID. That's relevant.

00:12:57.000 It's very relevant.

00:12:59.000 And they banned him for life!

00:13:00.000 It's crazy.

00:13:01.000 Come on.

00:13:01.000 No, the way you describe it, I didn't know it was that way.

00:13:04.000 Vandley's never told it.

00:13:06.000 All he's done is yell, and I've always thought, now, wait, Vandley, time out.

00:13:09.000 You've actually got a really good side here.

00:13:11.000 Yeah.

00:13:12.000 Come and tell it.

00:13:12.000 Now, under today's standards, it's a little bit different, because we know what's going on.

00:13:17.000 We do know, but we don't know that some crazy internet troll can't pretend he's a USADA guy, show up, drag you into a bathroom, and take a picture of your dick. 1.00

00:13:26.000 Exactly. 1.00

00:13:26.000 And won't let you, won't document who he is, won't let you just take a simple picture of him. 1.00

00:13:32.000 Well, that's insane that they don't have to show ID. I mean, that's tyranny right there.

00:13:36.000 There has to be some sort of due process.

00:13:38.000 And the athletes are already in a disadvantageous position in the first place.

00:13:43.000 I mean, they can be fired.

00:13:45.000 They mean there's this random thing that just shows up.

00:13:48.000 But I don't know what kind of constitutionality or what kind of legality is involved in just randomly testing someone's bodily fluids.

00:13:56.000 I mean, I guess you sign a contract agreeing to that.

00:14:00.000 Boy, that feels shaky.

00:14:02.000 It feels like that can be disputed.

00:14:04.000 And to your point, you now do sign a contract and you agree to go into this pool.

00:14:08.000 But back then, we did not.

00:14:10.000 I was the first guy, Vandalay was the second guy.

00:14:13.000 We both ended up with suspensions.

00:14:16.000 But it was different.

00:14:17.000 It's like, well, hey, wait, if you're going to do this, you've got to tell me right on the spot.

00:14:21.000 But you've got to at least prove who you are.

00:14:24.000 And I would imagine the women must have women testers come out to watch them, but I don't know that for sure. 1.00

00:14:29.000 You know, you hear this thing about these TSA pat-downs and the women feeling violated.

00:14:32.000 We haven't heard any women say that yet. 0.96

00:14:34.000 But at some point, you know, I just think there's a fine line there.

00:14:37.000 They might have to be a little bit careful.

00:14:38.000 Well, Vandelay had his lifelong suspension thrown out.

00:14:42.000 Right.

00:14:43.000 So now he's still in limbo, though, because they haven't decided how long he can get suspended.

00:14:49.000 And what they've done is, and by the way, how many years ago was this when this took place?

00:14:52.000 Three.

00:14:53.000 Three years ago.

00:14:54.000 So the man has not been able to earn a living.

00:14:57.000 In three years doing what he does best, which is fight.

00:15:00.000 Right.

00:15:00.000 And he is, he's a legend.

00:15:02.000 I mean, if you're gonna have a mixed martial arts hall of fame and you don't include Vandele Silva, you got a bullshit mixed martial arts hall of fame.

00:15:10.000 I mean, you're talking about a guy who was the pride champion for a long time, you know, had incredible fights, legendary fights, and he's beloved. 0.99

00:15:19.000 My point was, when you and him went at it on The Ultimate Fighter, his fucking popularity crashed. 0.99

00:15:27.000 Because you made him look foolish. 1.00

00:15:28.000 He looked silly. 1.00

00:15:29.000 He wanted to start a fight with you. 0.99

00:15:31.000 He was trying to intimidate you and it wasn't working.

00:15:34.000 You were like, please don't touch me.

00:15:36.000 Please don't touch me.

00:15:37.000 And then finally you wind up taking him down. 0.99

00:15:38.000 And just like, Jesus Christ, what the fuck are we doing here? 0.97

00:15:41.000 Yeah, it was really weird. 0.99

00:15:43.000 And trying to explain that to Vandeley on the set was a battle, too.

00:15:48.000 And Vandeley walked out on the very first day.

00:15:50.000 He demanded an apology.

00:15:52.000 From you.

00:15:53.000 Yeah, he comes in front of everybody.

00:15:54.000 Cameras are rolling.

00:15:55.000 We're about to pick teams.

00:15:56.000 So he's got all the guys there.

00:15:57.000 And his way of taking the moral high ground was to demand I apologize.

00:16:01.000 And if I don't, then he quits.

00:16:04.000 It's like, Vandalay, why did you put yourself in that position?

00:16:06.000 I'm not going to apologize, but why would you say you're going to quit?

00:16:09.000 Now you have to quit!

00:16:11.000 Now you have to walk out!

00:16:12.000 So he does!

00:16:13.000 When I call, he walks off the set.

00:16:16.000 Cameras stop everything.

00:16:17.000 They put us in the back, and I'm telling the producers, I'm not going to come out and apologize.

00:16:23.000 Call Vitor.

00:16:23.000 Vitor will come out and do it.

00:16:24.000 We'll have Vitor on a plane.

00:16:25.000 That's how we're going to solve this.

00:16:26.000 Nah, we can't call Vitor.

00:16:29.000 We've got to work this out with Vandalay.

00:16:31.000 Could you please apologize?

00:16:31.000 I said, look, I want this show to go forward, but this is the storyline.

00:16:35.000 The storyline is the bad guy has come to Brazil.

00:16:38.000 Vandalay gets to be the white knight on the horse.

00:16:41.000 Let's continue the script.

00:16:42.000 So I had to talk to Vandalay in a private room, and I had explained that to him.

00:16:46.000 I'm like, Vandalay, I get what you're doing here, and you're trying to be the good guy, but guess what?

00:16:49.000 You are.

00:16:50.000 Just let me go do what I do.

00:16:52.000 You will come off as the knight in shining armor.

00:16:56.000 And I'm okay with that.

00:16:57.000 You're not okay being the bad guy.

00:16:58.000 I am.

00:17:00.000 Let me do me.

00:17:00.000 The script's already out there.

00:17:01.000 That's why we have this job.

00:17:03.000 And I couldn't reason with him, Joe.

00:17:05.000 He would not understand it.

00:17:07.000 What was he saying?

00:17:10.000 On and on and on.

00:17:12.000 You insult Brazil.

00:17:15.000 Yeah, he was doing that.

00:17:16.000 I was breaking it down, and he's telling me how I'm doing everything wrong, and my sportsmanship's off, and my promotion's back.

00:17:22.000 And I said, Vanily, stop.

00:17:23.000 I said, George St. Pierre left.

00:17:25.000 Brock Lesnar left.

00:17:26.000 I'm the guy.

00:17:27.000 I'm the highest-paid guy in the UFC right now.

00:17:29.000 I'm not the guy you tell how to promote.

00:17:32.000 I'm the guy you copy.

00:17:33.000 And I was just trying to level with him.

00:17:35.000 I'm the guy you copy.

00:17:36.000 That's the reason that all these things are happening.

00:17:41.000 He agreed with me on that.

00:17:43.000 He goes, I understand that, but I don't like how you did that.

00:17:45.000 I said, great, then here's what we're going to do.

00:17:47.000 We're going to do this show, okay?

00:17:48.000 I'm going to continue to be the bad guy, and then we're going to fight.

00:17:52.000 And if you're so sure you're going to win, I mean, this is your moment.

00:17:55.000 He was raining on me for the Anderson thing.

00:17:56.000 I said, Vanity, did you see how that fight worked out?

00:17:58.000 Okay?

00:17:59.000 I took my punishment, man.

00:18:01.000 I had to eat it all.

00:18:02.000 It's an embarrassing thing, but I did it.

00:18:03.000 That's my payback for that.

00:18:05.000 You and I are in a separate deal.

00:18:07.000 You're trying to insert yourself in an Anderson fight.

00:18:09.000 Anderson already took care of that matter.

00:18:10.000 He handled his, but now you've got to handle yours.

00:18:13.000 And it was just a weird thing, and we just couldn't come around.

00:18:17.000 Well, you are an interesting guy to get into these altercations with because you're very logical.

00:18:23.000 And because... 1.00

00:18:25.000 You can say a bunch of crazy shit and not take it personal. 0.99

00:18:29.000 And I just don't think that he has that kind of mentality. 1.00

00:18:32.000 His mind is, Donald, today we fight to death.

00:18:35.000 That's a good impression, by the way.

00:18:37.000 But that's him.

00:18:38.000 I mean, he just wants to throw down.

00:18:40.000 And so he expected you to butt heads with him.

00:18:42.000 And you're like, hey, man, come on, we're here to make some money.

00:18:44.000 We're on TV. We're going to promote this.

00:18:46.000 No, no, no, no, Brazil. 0.89

00:18:48.000 Insult. 0.78

00:18:48.000 You no bad guy. 0.78

00:18:51.000 And there was no fucking way. 0.99

00:18:54.000 He just came into this with this idea that he was going to go shoot-the-buck style. 0.99

00:18:58.000 That he was going to get in your face and get angry, and maybe you guys would brawl on the set.

00:19:02.000 But you just weren't having it.

00:19:04.000 I wasn't having it.

00:19:05.000 But I also understood this.

00:19:06.000 It's like, Vandal, I want to be the bad guy, and this is my brand, and this is what I'm doing.

00:19:10.000 I'm the only guy on that side of the pool, because I'm the only guy that's willing to be.

00:19:14.000 So I'm the biggest heel in the business right now.

00:19:17.000 And I know this.

00:19:18.000 If I come into your country by myself and not speak in the language, and you team up, you gang, you team up on me, I become vulnerable.

00:19:26.000 If they see me as vulnerable, they're going to like me.

00:19:28.000 I don't want to be liked.

00:19:29.000 You're ruining everything.

00:19:31.000 And I knew if push came to shove, they're going to take Vandelay's side.

00:19:35.000 I'm going to come in short, but in the world of public opinion, I'm going to come out on top, which I've worked very hard.

00:19:41.000 I don't want to be on that side.

00:19:42.000 That's not where I'm trying to be.

00:19:44.000 I'm down there, and I'm all by myself, which means I'm ruling that part of the market.

00:19:49.000 And I was pleading with him when he was trying to get in a street fight.

00:19:52.000 I remember even saying to him, please, stop.

00:19:55.000 Like, Vandalie, please.

00:19:56.000 I don't want to do this.

00:19:58.000 Let's get a date and let's save it for the octagon.

00:20:00.000 And he just, he saw that as weakness.

00:20:02.000 And as soon as he saw the weakness, he started picking on me.

00:20:05.000 He's like, Vandalie, if you pick on me, I become likable.

00:20:08.000 I don't want that.

00:20:09.000 That's what this is all about.

00:20:11.000 I'm down there.

00:20:11.000 You guys be down here.

00:20:13.000 I'll be the nerd sitting at the end of the pool by himself.

00:20:15.000 But that's still my end of the pool.

00:20:18.000 Well, you approach this in a very calculated way, which is very rare for people when they're doing promotion for fights.

00:20:25.000 You know, there's shit talking, there's, you know, people say I'm the best ever, they brag, they do all sorts of different things, but it's very rare that they purposely put themselves in one position, and you did it on purpose, and you were the only guy that really had a vision.

00:20:40.000 You're like, look, everybody out here is doing it one way, but there's a way to do it completely over the top, You obviously had skills to back it up as well, but you were completely over the top, and you cherished the role. 1.00

00:20:54.000 When you took the microphone and went, Anderson Silva, you absolutely suck! 0.99

00:20:58.000 The whole place starts cheering. 0.99

00:21:00.000 It's like, he's going straight pro wrestling here.

00:21:04.000 You're the first guy to ever do that.

00:21:05.000 Right, yeah, let's cut a promo.

00:21:07.000 It's entertainment.

00:21:08.000 We are entertainment, and I firmly believe...

00:21:11.000 When one fight ends, the marketing for the next fight begins right then, right that moment.

00:21:16.000 While people are paying attention the most.

00:21:17.000 And I hear people tell you all the time, hey, who do you want to fight next?

00:21:19.000 And you're giving them an opportunity.

00:21:21.000 You're softballing them right down the middle.

00:21:23.000 And they say, anybody.

00:21:25.000 And their message, what they want to be relayed is, I'm not a bully.

00:21:29.000 I'll take on anybody.

00:21:30.000 I'll take on all comers.

00:21:31.000 I don't care.

00:21:32.000 I get that, but that's not what people are hearing.

00:21:34.000 If you say you don't care, how can you expect anybody else to?

00:21:38.000 If you tell the whole world, I don't care who I'm fighting, well then how in the hell can a fan care?

00:21:43.000 How can they care about you?

00:21:45.000 You've got to care.

00:21:46.000 Whether it's a personal thing, whether it's a career move, whether it's a title, whatever it is, you have to care and there has to be an answer.

00:21:52.000 If you don't care, I don't care.

00:21:54.000 Nobody's ever gotten a job, Joe, by telling the guy interviewing them, I don't care.

00:21:58.000 Well, then I can't hire you.

00:22:00.000 I just can't hire you.

00:22:01.000 Yeah, especially if there's someone who does care.

00:22:04.000 Now, there's a...

00:22:05.000 Imagine if when I tried to get on your podcast today, if you'd have said, hey, are you free on Monday?

00:22:09.000 And I'd go, eh, I don't care.

00:22:10.000 You'd go, well, then I'll just call somebody else, Chael.

00:22:13.000 I need a guy in the studio that wants to be here.

00:22:15.000 Well, sure, you do.

00:22:16.000 I want to be here.

00:22:17.000 Well, I wouldn't worry about that with you.

00:22:19.000 If you said, I don't care, I'd be like, good, Chael's in a weird mood.

00:22:21.000 This is going to be a fun podcast.

00:22:23.000 Fair enough.

00:22:24.000 But there's an odd psychology that goes along with fighting.

00:22:27.000 And one of the things that happens to people when they're preparing for a fight, and you could speak to this, is that there's sort of a compulsion or a feeling that you would like to avoid thinking about the fight as much as possible.

00:22:42.000 There's a natural sort of attraction to just putting it aside.

00:22:48.000 It's like, let's just not think about this.

00:22:50.000 Let's not think about this at all.

00:22:51.000 Let's only...

00:22:52.000 Focus on the task at hand, and when the task at hand is over, then we're going to take a break.

00:22:57.000 And when a fight is over and the relief has hit a guy, like to shift gears and go straight into promo mode, sometimes guys have done it And they've done it, and it comes off artificial, and it comes off clunky, and it actually hurts them more than it helps them.

00:23:13.000 Like, it seems like it takes a very specific type of personality to be able to pull that off correctly.

00:23:18.000 I think that's fair.

00:23:19.000 Yeah, and I've seen some guys do it, and I appreciate it.

00:23:21.000 Ben Rothwell comes to mind.

00:23:23.000 Yeah.

00:23:23.000 And Rothwell has something pocketed, and even in awkwardness, there's something to see there.

00:23:27.000 It's not a total miss.

00:23:29.000 It does come across as pocketed and scripted.

00:23:31.000 And my only advice to Rothwell is...

00:23:34.000 If you have a pocketed statement and you're not ready for the follow-up question, drop the mic and walk away.

00:23:40.000 Hit your bit and exit stage left.

00:23:43.000 Yes, it's very hard to say something you want to say, and when the follow-up question comes, you go back into being yourself.

00:23:50.000 That's very hard.

00:23:51.000 Look, if you take a character, you finish the character until it's done.

00:23:55.000 And if you're stuck, walk away.

00:23:58.000 Yeah.

00:23:58.000 Like Daniel Cormier, when I interviewed him after he beat Rumble Johnson.

00:24:02.000 John Jones! 1.00

00:24:04.000 Get your shit together! 1.00

00:24:05.000 That's it. 1.00

00:24:06.000 Right.

00:24:06.000 It was perfect.

00:24:07.000 It was great.

00:24:08.000 It was perfect.

00:24:09.000 So Daniel, let's stay on Daniel.

00:24:10.000 Daniel this week was in one of the...

00:24:13.000 It was a very weird spot.

00:24:14.000 So Daniel comes in.

00:24:16.000 He's not just the good guy of MMA, Joe.

00:24:18.000 He's the great guy. 1.00

00:24:20.000 Never will somebody meet that guy face-to-face and go, what a jerk. 1.00

00:24:23.000 Never! 1.00

00:24:24.000 Well, what's amazing is how much he gets booed.

00:24:26.000 That's my point, but everybody hates him.

00:24:29.000 You then have Jon Jones, who is a real-life heel that wants to be loved, and for some reason the crowd used to be against him, and now they find out who he is, they love it.

00:24:38.000 They're in.

00:24:39.000 Why do they love him more?

00:24:41.000 They love him more. 1.00

00:24:41.000 Now that he keeps fucking up. 1.00

00:24:43.000 Daniel Cormier was at a press conference with Jones, and Jones says, I've been sober for three months, and the crowd goes crazy. 0.99

00:24:49.000 They then shoot the camera over to Daniel, the whole crowd starts, but he hasn't even said anything, they all start booing.

00:24:53.000 Daniel takes the mic and goes, you guys are cheering that he's been sober for 90 days.

00:24:58.000 I've been sober for 36 years.

00:25:00.000 They boo him again.

00:25:01.000 They hated it.

00:25:02.000 So Daniel gets put in this weird spot.

00:25:04.000 He brings that momentum into this fight.

00:25:06.000 He then becomes vulnerable.

00:25:08.000 His heart's out there.

00:25:10.000 He shows the world it.

00:25:11.000 He takes the high road.

00:25:12.000 He says, I think that Jon Jones made a mistake.

00:25:14.000 I've made mistakes before.

00:25:15.000 He starts telling these personal stories.

00:25:17.000 His heart's out.

00:25:17.000 He's in tears.

00:25:18.000 Everybody loves him.

00:25:20.000 All of a sudden, he goes into the fight.

00:25:22.000 Anderson, boom.

00:25:23.000 People love the appreciation.

00:25:24.000 He stepped up.

00:25:26.000 Great middleweight.

00:25:27.000 All these different things.

00:25:28.000 Daniel gets beat, or rather beats him, crowd boos, and then Daniel tries to address the audience, explaining himself.

00:25:37.000 It's like, Daniel, a couple of rules in politics.

00:25:38.000 First off, you steer into a problem.

00:25:40.000 If a crowd wants to boo, you don't ever ask them for their approval.

00:25:42.000 You take the mic, you hold your belt up high, you thank them all. 0.99

00:25:46.000 For the percentage of their ticket sales that you got, you tell them to shove their opinion up their ass, and you walk away. 0.99

00:25:52.000 If you're explaining, you're losing. 0.99

00:25:54.000 Do not explain yourself.

00:25:56.000 Do not say, I had to do what I had to do.

00:25:58.000 I'm tired of the misrepresentations in fighting.

00:26:01.000 It comes all the way from the top.

00:26:02.000 We hear that the fans want two guys that are going to go out there and bang.

00:26:05.000 Well, that's not true.

00:26:06.000 The biggest draw in the history of the sport is George St. Pierre.

00:26:08.000 He never went out there and banged with anybody.

00:26:10.000 He's a beautiful man, though.

00:26:12.000 It is a very handsome man.

00:26:13.000 He's very marketable.

00:26:14.000 I will concede that.

00:26:15.000 But the bottom line is, that's not necessarily what people want.

00:26:19.000 The exact same game plan that Cormier did is what Lesnar did five minutes later, and everybody loved it.

00:26:25.000 That's not what it's about.

00:26:27.000 They decided they wanted to see Anderson win.

00:26:29.000 They weren't upset that they were on the ground.

00:26:30.000 They weren't on their feet because they knew that's where Anderson could knock him out, and they decided they were going to cheer for Anderson. 0.99

00:26:36.000 Cormier should have just told them to shove it up their ass, and they'd be stuck. 0.99

00:26:39.000 Yeah, but that's not him. 1.00

00:26:40.000 At all!

00:26:41.000 But he wants to be liked!

00:26:42.000 He wants to be liked, Joe!

00:26:44.000 I understand that, but that's not the way to be liked. 0.99

00:26:46.000 The only way to be liked is him to beat the shit out of Jon Jones. 0.98

00:26:49.000 I mean, that is the only way. 0.97

00:26:51.000 Because right now, he's got a title that, let's just be completely honest about what it is, it's not a title that he beat the champion to get.

00:27:00.000 Sure.

00:27:00.000 They had to take it away from the champion, and the public recognizes that, and...

00:27:05.000 While Jon Jones may be screwing up a lot, he may have all these problems outside of the octagon, inside the octagon, no one has been able to best him.

00:27:15.000 He's amazing.

00:27:16.000 And because of that, because of that, people are on his side.

00:27:20.000 Because people love winners.

00:27:21.000 They just do.

00:27:22.000 They love Mike Tyson when he was in his prime, and even when he came out of jail for alleged rape, he claims he never did it.

00:27:29.000 I don't know what happened, obviously.

00:27:30.000 But when he came out of jail, they were still rooting for him.

00:27:34.000 I mean, here's a guy who, if you have daughters, I have daughters, you know, if you have a girl and you hope, boy, the worst case scenario is my daughter finds herself in a position where a man wants to physically do something to her that she doesn't want. 0.99

00:27:47.000 People don't give a fuck. 0.99

00:27:48.000 They were like, Mike Tyson's back! 0.99

00:27:51.000 He's back, and he's looking angry, and he's ripped now.

00:27:53.000 He's been doing prison workouts. 0.99

00:27:55.000 There's something about a guy who's just a bad motherfucker that people love. 0.99

00:28:00.000 And there's a thing where they know that Daniel feels that. 0.98

00:28:04.000 There's a thing where they know that Daniel knows that John is the guy who won the first fight, That Jon is the legitimate linear champion, that Jon is the undefeated fighter, and literally the only undefeated fighter at that level. 0.98

00:28:19.000 He has one loss to Matt Hamill, which is a bullshit disqualification from a dumb fucking rule that shouldn't even be there. 0.97

00:28:25.000 Which you've said a million times. 0.99

00:28:26.000 Nobody's more angry about that than you.

00:28:28.000 Jon Jones is not as frustrated about that loss as you are.

00:28:31.000 It's madness.

00:28:32.000 The law, the rule is madness.

00:28:35.000 And it only exists.

00:28:36.000 I talked to big John McCarthy about this extensively. 0.97

00:28:39.000 Only exists because the commission was ignorant. 0.96

00:28:42.000 Sure. 0.98

00:28:42.000 They didn't understand that those brick breakers. 0.98

00:28:45.000 It's not that hard to break a fucking brick, man. 0.99

00:28:47.000 It seems crazy, but it's really just not. 0.99

00:28:49.000 Especially when they're spread wide like that.

00:28:52.000 But Jon Jones has that aura of invincibility about him.

00:28:56.000 Now, if he fought Rumble Johnson, Rumble Johnson head-kicked him into oblivion, and we see Jon with his toes curled, you know, lying on his back snoring, which absolutely can happen to any human, then the whole thing would change.

00:29:09.000 And I think the walls would come cumbling down, and if Jon did a press conference and said he was 30 days sober, they would start booing him. 0.99

00:29:15.000 They wouldn't give a fuck. 0.99

00:29:16.000 I think that's fair. 0.99

00:29:17.000 Yeah, you're right.

00:29:18.000 America does love success.

00:29:19.000 Fans are frontrunners.

00:29:20.000 They've got the right to be.

00:29:21.000 But yeah, historically, that is how it worked.

00:29:22.000 And when you talk about Rumble Johnson and Jon Jones, man, we've got to get that matchup done. 0.99

00:29:27.000 They've fucked up. 0.99

00:29:28.000 I mean, the whole thing is fucked up in that that hasn't happened. 0.99

00:29:31.000 Because he's in real danger with Glover. 0.93

00:29:34.000 Like, that air of invincibility was taken away from him by Daniel.

00:29:39.000 Daniel beat him, and he broke him.

00:29:41.000 Daniel beat him down, took his back, choked him.

00:29:44.000 And you could see Rumble just having a real hard time with what was going on in that fight.

00:29:49.000 He had given his all in that first round.

00:29:51.000 He had hit Daniel with a bomb.

00:29:53.000 Like, literally took him off of his feet, sent him flying across the octagon. 1.00

00:29:56.000 But Daniel was tough as fuck. 0.98

00:29:58.000 He survived, he gutted it out, and then he imposed his superior wrestling and wound up winning. 0.98

00:30:03.000 So we lost a lot there because that fight was supposed to be Jon Jones and Rumble Johnson. 0.91

00:30:11.000 And then Jon Jones and Rumble Johnson would have been fucking epic.

00:30:13.000 And that would have been really interesting to see what happens when a guy who hits like Rumble connects with a guy like Jon. 0.87

00:30:19.000 And especially back then when we didn't know...

00:30:22.000 We knew that Josh Koscheck had beaten him, that he had a real hard time in the later rounds when he was competing at 170. But we also knew that there's no fucking way he should have been at 170. Even when he fought Vitor at 185, it was kind of the same thing. 0.71

00:30:36.000 He came out like a bat out of hell and then faded. 0.76

00:30:38.000 And then we assumed that he also missed 185 against Vitor.

00:30:42.000 By seven pounds.

00:30:44.000 Yeah, I mean, he had a notorious problem with his weight.

00:30:46.000 Yeah.

00:30:46.000 So we kind of attributed a lot of his failures to that.

00:30:49.000 And we see him at heavyweight, beat the shit out of Arlovsky, break his jaw in the first round and just tool him for three. 0.99

00:30:55.000 And we say, well, okay, Rumble at 205 is the fucking man. 0.99

00:30:59.000 We missed that. 0.99

00:31:00.000 Missed that opportunity.

00:31:01.000 Yeah, I agree.

00:31:02.000 And, you know, when you bring up Rumble, Rashad, who trained with both Jon Jones and Rumble, says Rumble beats him.

00:31:07.000 Now, Rumble only does have one problem.

00:31:09.000 He is a frontrunner, and he does fade a little bit, but that's a big storm that he brings.

00:31:14.000 RDA fights that way.

00:31:16.000 Amanda Nunes fights that way. 1.00

00:31:17.000 Her own teammates were saying, look, if she gets in the second, third round, I don't know about this, but she's going to bring a storm in that first round, and I don't think Misha can survive it.

00:31:25.000 I talked to Dustin Poirier.

00:31:27.000 He trains with Amanda, and he said that.

00:31:28.000 He goes, well, if he gets in the later round, her percentage goes down.

00:31:32.000 He said, but I think she's going to come out, she's going to put her foot on the gas, empty the tank in the first. 1.00

00:31:35.000 I don't think Misha's going to be around.

00:31:37.000 Isn't that fascinating, those fast twitch muscle fiber fighters, those ones who explode, the really dynamic ones? 0.97

00:31:44.000 There's a fucking give and a take to everything. 0.97

00:31:47.000 Sure. 0.98

00:31:47.000 And those ones, they just don't survive into the third, fourth, and fifth round with the same pep. 0.98

00:31:52.000 So let's back up.

00:31:53.000 I made a note here on the Jon Jones thing.

00:31:55.000 Did you follow the whole Jon Jones drama?

00:31:58.000 The most recent one.

00:31:59.000 The only post-drama, yeah, was that he had a press conference the next day.

00:32:03.000 Did you follow that press conference at all?

00:32:06.000 I saw the crying pictures.

00:32:07.000 I think Jamie sent them to me.

00:32:08.000 All right.

00:32:09.000 I went to that press conference, and there was a couple of takeaways.

00:32:13.000 And this is all speculative, but this doesn't make John innocent at all.

00:32:18.000 Well, John's guilty.

00:32:18.000 They've got the sample that's guilty, but his actions were not that of a guilty man.

00:32:23.000 Historically, guilty guys go bury their head in the sand.

00:32:25.000 They try to outrun this thing.

00:32:26.000 They get with their legal teams.

00:32:27.000 They show up at the hearing.

00:32:28.000 They hope for the best.

00:32:30.000 They get the worst and they deal with it.

00:32:32.000 John faced the music 12 hours later.

00:32:34.000 He came through the hotel.

00:32:35.000 His whole life's pulling apart right now.

00:32:37.000 I imagine he didn't even sleep that night.

00:32:39.000 He comes to the hotel with the fans.

00:32:40.000 He comes into the media.

00:32:42.000 PR101 says you read a script that was written for you and you exit the stage.

00:32:48.000 Instead, he read no script.

00:32:49.000 He took every question asked of him.

00:32:51.000 And that's just not what a guilty guy does.

00:32:53.000 Now, I understand that he's guilty in terms of USADA, but what we care about is intent.

00:32:58.000 Was he trying to get over on somebody?

00:33:01.000 Was he trying to hide something?

00:33:02.000 His actions would represent that he didn't.

00:33:04.000 But here was the problem with the press conference, Joe.

00:33:06.000 When you hold a press conference...

00:33:08.000 You have one goal in mind, which is to win over the media and that they say nice things about you before you do go home and bury your head in the sand.

00:33:15.000 Secondly, you want to break something.

00:33:18.000 You want to get something out there to get ahead of the story.

00:33:20.000 That's the whole reason you show up at these things.

00:33:22.000 The only card that he had to play is, what did you test positive for?

00:33:27.000 That was the only thing we didn't know.

00:33:29.000 And they refused to reveal it.

00:33:31.000 So that was a little bit weird.

00:33:33.000 And where I was sitting Because I've been in John's spot, and here was the thing that happened with me.

00:33:38.000 We're talking about John, this whole thing's going on with John, based on a test that took place on June 16th.

00:33:45.000 The reason that was relevant, when I went through my thing, I was, you know, he tested positive for some estrogen blockers.

00:33:51.000 Those don't really have anything to do with anything. 0.96

00:33:53.000 They don't help your, they're silly. 0.92

00:33:56.000 I think you might have just revealed something. 0.97

00:33:58.000 Yeah, he tested positive for two estrogen blockers.

00:34:00.000 Yeah, but no one else knew that.

00:34:02.000 There you go.

00:34:03.000 I'm revealing it.

00:34:03.000 How dare you?

00:34:04.000 You broke personal information.

00:34:06.000 That's what we're doing here, though, right?

00:34:08.000 Wow, but this is like, the only way that anybody could find that out is if you talked about it.

00:34:13.000 Boom! 0.99

00:34:14.000 It's out there, right?

00:34:14.000 Isn't that what we're doing here?

00:34:15.000 Aren't we creating some news?

00:34:17.000 It's a big news day.

00:34:18.000 But listen, but here's the relevance.

00:34:20.000 And let me tie myself into this.

00:34:22.000 When I went through this, Joe, I had something silly in there.

00:34:24.000 In fact, I had an estrogen block. 0.96

00:34:25.000 I had something silly in there. 0.58

00:34:27.000 And everybody forgave.

00:34:28.000 I was going to be suspended, but Fox, I was fine.

00:34:32.000 Everybody looked, okay, we changed the rules and the test, and everything was fine.

00:34:35.000 But what I had to live with, what only I knew, There was another test out there, but the results hadn't come back yet.

00:34:42.000 And I didn't know what that test was going to show.

00:34:44.000 I know what it could have shown.

00:34:45.000 I know what it should have shown.

00:34:47.000 But I know what the other test could have and should have as well. 0.99

00:34:49.000 So you're sitting there hoping, how good is this damn test? 0.99

00:34:52.000 That's all you're thinking about. 0.99

00:34:53.000 Well, you and I had a conversation.

00:34:56.000 You're the guy.

00:34:56.000 You were on stage, and I'm blowing you up.

00:34:59.000 You're like, hey man, I'm doing a show.

00:35:00.000 Can I call you tomorrow?

00:35:01.000 I go, tonight.

00:35:02.000 I will stay.

00:35:02.000 Capital letters.

00:35:03.000 Tonight.

00:35:04.000 I need to hear from you tonight.

00:35:06.000 Yeah, I remember the exact words.

00:35:07.000 You said, well, you know how we were wondering how stringent these new tests are?

00:35:13.000 Turns out they're really good.

00:35:14.000 Turns out it's a pretty good test.

00:35:17.000 Turns out it's not like the old 1-800-requested test that costs $99, okay?

00:35:21.000 There's a reason this test is $40-plus grand.

00:35:25.000 But the thing that I'm wondering, does John have another test out there?

00:35:29.000 And if he does, it doesn't mean it's going to come back.

00:35:32.000 But that was the same spot I was in.

00:35:33.000 There was a shoe that could drop.

00:35:35.000 For me, it did.

00:35:35.000 For him, is there another test out there?

00:35:36.000 And if there's not, then USADA's got some explaining to do.

00:35:39.000 If you're telling me a guy that's got a track record that tested positive for cocaine, going to fight in the biggest fight of his career, and the last time you tested him was one month before the bout, then USADA's got some explaining to do.

00:35:50.000 But there's more to the story.

00:35:51.000 Now, do we hear it?

00:35:52.000 Does he pass?

00:35:53.000 Does he end up in the spot?

00:35:54.000 I don't know, but that's the piece that's still missing.

00:35:57.000 Well, there's one aspect to his test, his positive test, that people are saying could possibly play a factor, and it's supplements.

00:36:07.000 That he could possibly have been taking something that, like, this is what happened to Tim Means, this is what happened to Yoel Romero, where they get a supplement and it says it has a bunch of stuff on it.

00:36:20.000 It says you look through the ingredients, okay, creatine, B12, we're good, we're good.

00:36:24.000 But then, when you run it through a lab, it turns out there's a bunch of other stuff in there, too.

00:36:28.000 And that's why it's so effective, and that's why it sells.

00:36:31.000 So it is possible that that could be the case.

00:36:34.000 We don't know yet.

00:36:35.000 Because then, if that's the case, then John has to give them all the supplements that he was taking, and then they have to go to a store, buy them independently, test them, and verify that these ingredients were in not just the batch that he hands them, but also in other batches.

00:36:49.000 So it's not like he doctored it, threw some stuff in there.

00:36:51.000 Sure.

00:36:52.000 But estrogen blockers are usually when people are getting off of steroids.

00:36:56.000 Right.

00:36:57.000 When you're coming off a cycle.

00:36:58.000 Yeah, and it's a blocker.

00:36:59.000 You know, men don't want estrogen anyway, but it's a blocker.

00:37:02.000 So as far as that substance goes, then that's all he's going to have to live with.

00:37:06.000 He's not going to have to live with speculation.

00:37:07.000 Explain how they work, like, for someone who doesn't understand.

00:37:09.000 All that an estrogen blocker will do, if you up your testosterone, then your estrogen just naturally ups.

00:37:14.000 And guys don't want estrogen.

00:37:15.000 So if you're a guy, you take a blocker that can block that, bring it to you. 0.98

00:37:19.000 You won't get, you know, the man boobs. 1.00

00:37:21.000 There you go. 0.98

00:37:22.000 I'm trying to think of the word.

00:37:24.000 I can't even... 1.00

00:37:26.000 Bitch tits is all that comes to mind. 1.00

00:37:27.000 I can't think of the word. 1.00

00:37:30.000 We're close.

00:37:32.000 Gynomastica.

00:37:33.000 At any rate, it can stop some of those things.

00:37:35.000 So that's the speculation.

00:37:37.000 The reason that that's on the list is they find that that's a way they can catch you after the fact.

00:37:41.000 Hey, if we missed you doing the cycle, we can catch you here.

00:37:43.000 Well, it's not just that.

00:37:44.000 The reason why they take it after the cycle is because you get hypogonadism.

00:37:49.000 Your body stops producing testosterone because you took exogenous testosterone.

00:37:54.000 That's right.

00:37:55.000 And so to restart it, they take this stuff, these estrogen blockers.

00:37:59.000 That's right, yeah.

00:38:00.000 I tested positive for an estrogen blocker, and it was that exact same thing.

00:38:03.000 They banned testosterone.

00:38:04.000 I went on something called HCG, which you'll return your testes back on.

00:38:09.000 And then you have to take clomiphene, which is, by definition, an estrogen blocker for that same thing, but it can also help...

00:38:15.000 Get your body going back on testosterone.

00:38:17.000 So they're banned.

00:38:18.000 John's got a problem.

00:38:19.000 Again, this comes back to the press conference.

00:38:21.000 He said, I have not taken anything new that I have not taken my entire career.

00:38:25.000 So somebody gave him a follow-up question.

00:38:27.000 He quickly realized what he just said.

00:38:29.000 And he goes, I do have a new supplement company.

00:38:31.000 I have taken some new supplements.

00:38:33.000 So he realized he put himself in one pool.

00:38:36.000 He needed to get out of it.

00:38:37.000 The supplement company then, who dropped him immediately, came out with a press release and said, do not put this on us.

00:38:42.000 We don't have anything to do with that, and we'll turn over any samples you want.

00:38:45.000 So that's the downside to holding a press conference, is if there's anything the commission hates...

00:38:51.000 It's when somebody isn't honest with them.

00:38:52.000 Well, if there's anything USADA hates, and it's what Lance Armstrong found out, it's when you deny the scientific accuracy of their test.

00:39:00.000 That's the risk with holding a press conference.

00:39:03.000 That's why most legal teams will tell you, go home, be quiet, write to remain silent, execute that, show up at your hearing date, get sworn in, say your piece, and then go on about your life.

00:39:14.000 How does John not have a trusted handler?

00:39:18.000 How does John not have someone who realizes that you don't just have like a High-level athlete you have arguably the greatest light heavyweight of all time who has not in my opinion reached his potential yet I think John has Massive potential outside of what he's actually shown because when he moved to Albuquerque and we saw that he was training all the time and we saw the most recent footage before he fought Ovin St. Preux where he's powerlifting,

00:39:46.000 he looks fucking huge, he's dedicated, he's eating clean, he's making these Instagram videos of all this healthy food he's eating.

00:39:52.000 We're assuming he's getting the proper rest and all these other things. 0.96

00:39:55.000 We're assuming, okay, the wild man days are gone.

00:39:57.000 He's still got the wild man's mind, but now he's gonna approach this like a real competitive athlete.

00:40:01.000 Here's my question to you. 0.98

00:40:03.000 When someone is wild and talented and impulsive, just a wild motherfucker like Jon Jones is, is it even smart to reign that guy in? 0.98

00:40:12.000 Can it affect him? 0.99

00:40:14.000 I mean, is it a positive thing to reign him in?

00:40:17.000 Or is part of what he is and why he's so good and why he's willing to open with a flying knee on Shogun, their first fight, I mean, the first fight for a title at, what was he, 23?

00:40:31.000 Yeah, 24. He opens up with a flying knee on, you know, one of the legends of MMA, former Pride Champion or Pride Grand Prix Champion and UFC Champion as well.

00:40:43.000 You look at a guy like John and the way he competes and the way he's so creative and wild in there and impulsive.

00:40:51.000 It's almost like that's a part of his success.

00:40:54.000 I fully agree, and historically I could bring up athletes where that is true, where they go sober, where they go straight and narrow, when they find God, whatever these things are, and they change something, that, yeah, the dominoes start to fall.

00:41:07.000 The problem is when you've got a wild man like John...

00:41:10.000 He's in a box, and it's a loose box, and he's having some fun.

00:41:13.000 But usually that continues to escalate.

00:41:16.000 So he kind of needs to keep himself right in that framework.

00:41:18.000 And the bad news is, it usually just keeps pushing.

00:41:23.000 That's a very important point.

00:41:24.000 That becomes a problem.

00:41:25.000 That's a very important point where people escalate things.

00:41:27.000 Like, billionaires want more billions, right?

00:41:29.000 They want islands now. 1.00

00:41:31.000 They want fucking jets and spaceships. 1.00

00:41:33.000 And with a pro athlete, or... 1.00

00:41:36.000 A wild person who's doing crazy shit. 1.00

00:41:38.000 They want to do more crazy shit. 1.00

00:41:39.000 They want to drive 150 miles an hour. 1.00

00:41:41.000 They want to... 0.99

00:41:43.000 Man, but it just seems like whatever the fuck you do, just nerf everything around him, you know? 0.99

00:41:49.000 Right. 0.99

00:41:50.000 Buy up the town.

00:41:51.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:41:51.000 Fucking have three guys that he trusts follow him around everywhere and make sure that he doesn't eat anything that he's not supposed to eat. 0.99

00:41:57.000 Sure. 0.99

00:41:58.000 Don't take any pills you're not supposed to take.

00:41:59.000 Don't...

00:42:00.000 Most importantly, don't drive.

00:42:02.000 I mean, his biggest problem was getting behind the wheel in front of everything else he was doing.

00:42:06.000 It's like, John, you've got to get a chauffeur, you've got to get Uber, you've got to take a taxi.

00:42:10.000 Don't get behind the wheel.

00:42:11.000 That was the most of his problems.

00:42:13.000 You had some other ones, but that was the most of it.

00:42:15.000 If you just took him out of the driver's seat A lot of this doesn't exist.

00:42:19.000 Yeah, a lot of it doesn't exist.

00:42:20.000 But this most recent one obviously does.

00:42:22.000 And the most, like, yeah, he had those two major car accidents.

00:42:26.000 We had that beautiful Bentley and slid it into a tree.

00:42:29.000 Right.

00:42:30.000 And then, obviously, the one where he crashed into that woman and left the scene of the crime, which was horrendous.

00:42:36.000 He survived that, though.

00:42:37.000 Yeah.

00:42:37.000 You know, he survived that.

00:42:38.000 He came back in the Oven St. Pru fight.

00:42:40.000 He won.

00:42:41.000 He beat a top six guy on short notice.

00:42:43.000 And then this happens.

00:42:45.000 And to get positive on something as small and innocuous as estrogen blockers.

00:42:53.000 I agree.

00:42:54.000 So you go back to that Oven St. Proof fight.

00:42:56.000 Single worst performance of John's career.

00:42:59.000 Single worst by light years.

00:43:02.000 Now you break it down a little further.

00:43:03.000 He won the grappling.

00:43:04.000 He won the striking.

00:43:05.000 He won every round.

00:43:06.000 He didn't back off.

00:43:07.000 He didn't get tired.

00:43:08.000 He was stronger.

00:43:09.000 And that was on a bad day.

00:43:11.000 I didn't think it was a bad fight.

00:43:12.000 You know, everyone says a single worst performance.

00:43:14.000 I have a great deal of respect for Ovens St. Preux.

00:43:18.000 And I think Ovens is a very dangerous guy.

00:43:22.000 He's very explosive.

00:43:23.000 His left power kick is extremely strong.

00:43:26.000 He has a nasty left hook.

00:43:27.000 He's a southpaw.

00:43:28.000 And he fights odd.

00:43:29.000 He has a very odd style.

00:43:31.000 I would agree about Owens.

00:43:33.000 I think your assessment there is fair, and I think his stock went up that night.

00:43:36.000 But when I'm watching John, I'm going, okay, this is a rusty John.

00:43:39.000 This is slower.

00:43:40.000 The output's a little bit down.

00:43:42.000 The bottom line is, on a bad day, he left with a world championship.

00:43:45.000 That's how good he is.

00:43:47.000 The other side of John, you know, when you're talking about the car wrecks or when we're talking about the cocaine or what he's going through now, and again, this was my takeaway from the press conference, the biggest takeaway was John won't own anything.

00:43:58.000 And it's like, John, at some point, you can't do the routine about, I don't know why God put me in this spot.

00:44:04.000 I don't know why God put me in the spot.

00:44:06.000 Everything happens for a reason.

00:44:07.000 I'm going to come out better on the other side.

00:44:08.000 It's like, John, you're acting like you got diagnosed with diabetes or cancer or something, you know, and that you're the victim.

00:44:14.000 You were in a hit and run.

00:44:15.000 You did the hitting and you did the running.

00:44:17.000 That was your fault.

00:44:18.000 On the cocaine thing, you didn't say somebody slipped me a mickey.

00:44:20.000 You said I was at a party in Brazil.

00:44:21.000 I rolled up 100 and went down to the table.

00:44:23.000 That was your fault.

00:44:24.000 Now you're in a jam here for two banned substances, and you're still not taking a response, and you think God's put you in this spot.

00:44:31.000 It's like John said, you put yourself in this spot, and at some point, if you're the baddest dude in the world, and you are, you've got to man up on these things.

00:44:37.000 You've got to man up and go, hey, I'm guilty, and how exactly it happened, I'm going to try to figure that out.

00:44:42.000 But I'm definitely guilty.

00:44:43.000 Wusada does a good job.

00:44:44.000 I trust those labs.

00:44:45.000 Let's get to the bottom of it.

00:44:46.000 Jail, Sonnen, public relations.

00:44:47.000 This is what we need.

00:44:48.000 We need an earpiece.

00:44:49.000 We need a little earpiece.

00:44:50.000 You put it in Jon Jones' ear.

00:44:52.000 You sit behind the screens.

00:44:53.000 You have a monitor.

00:44:54.000 You go, no, no, no, no, no, Jon!

00:44:56.000 This is not just script!

00:44:57.000 Stop! 1.00

00:44:57.000 Stop right there! 1.00

00:44:59.000 But no more victim role.

00:45:01.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:45:01.000 You stand up like Tony Montana in that fucking restaurant. 1.00

00:45:04.000 You're looking at the bad guy. 1.00

00:45:05.000 There it is.

00:45:06.000 Say hello.

00:45:06.000 There it is, right there.

00:45:07.000 Say hello to the bad guy. 1.00

00:45:09.000 Yeah, I like to party, bitch. 1.00

00:45:11.000 I fucked up. 1.00

00:45:12.000 I took some shit. 1.00

00:45:14.000 What supplements would have testosterone blockers? 1.00

00:45:18.000 Or estrogen blockers, excuse me.

00:45:19.000 None that I've ever heard of.

00:45:21.000 And again, But if they boost testosterone, right? 0.87

00:45:25.000 Estrogen blockers, apparently, is more of an effect of testosterone?

00:45:30.000 How does it work?

00:45:31.000 I've never heard that.

00:45:32.000 Now, that could be true.

00:45:33.000 I think of myself as kind of an expert in this field, from being on the wrong side, being on both sides of it.

00:45:40.000 I've never heard of that.

00:45:41.000 I can't imagine why a supplement company would do that.

00:45:42.000 And this supplement company wasn't like Tim Means' company or Yoel Ramirez.

00:45:46.000 They came out with a press release instantly.

00:45:48.000 So do not put this on us.

00:45:50.000 Let us know what you need from us.

00:45:51.000 We'll drop it off at the lab ourselves.

00:45:55.000 This online because someone told me about it this weekend and I never got a chance to look at it.

00:45:59.000 Someone said that there are certain things in supplements that, you know, could have been sold by a company that would allow you to test positive for these very things.

00:46:11.000 See if you can find that in relationship to Jon Jones' test.

00:46:16.000 Because I remember someone talking about it and I said, I gotta remember to look this up.

00:46:22.000 Those two chemicals, they only exist in a pharmaceutical world, right?

00:46:26.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:46:27.000 So it's not like it's a root or something?

00:46:30.000 No.

00:46:30.000 Okay.

00:46:30.000 No.

00:46:31.000 And then what exactly they got them for?

00:46:32.000 I mean, that's still coming out.

00:46:34.000 But that was one of the things, again, to go back to the press conference.

00:46:36.000 And I think John did more good than he did bad.

00:46:39.000 I think it was kind of a good thing that he came out, he showed courage, he didn't read a script, he answered all the questions.

00:46:43.000 But the bad was he didn't tell us what he tested positive for.

00:46:46.000 Right.

00:46:47.000 And the bad news is now he's stuck with speculation.

00:46:49.000 If he would have come out and told us exactly what it was, you and I would have to guess and go to the internet and speculate.

00:46:53.000 And speculating rumors is what you don't need.

00:46:56.000 Right.

00:46:56.000 I don't know why he held that with understanding.

00:46:59.000 Usada's going to tell us.

00:47:00.000 But I don't think they do.

00:47:00.000 If you don't tell us Usada will.

00:47:02.000 I don't think they will.

00:47:03.000 No, I don't.

00:47:03.000 I really, I think...

00:47:04.000 If they're going to charge him, and they are.

00:47:05.000 I think you're getting sued.

00:47:07.000 Well, if they're going to charge him, and they are within the event, oh, that I'm going for breaking up?

00:47:11.000 You're definitely one.

00:47:12.000 You're like, it's medical information.

00:47:13.000 You'll take it?

00:47:14.000 Well, no, not if it's medical information.

00:47:16.000 I suppose you're right with HIPAA, but this doesn't fall under that.

00:47:19.000 The commission's going to bring charges against him for certain supplements.

00:47:22.000 They're going to bring him in, require that he's there.

00:47:25.000 They're going to have to address it.

00:47:26.000 Then he's going to say his piece.

00:47:27.000 Look, I took this.

00:47:28.000 I didn't think I'd get caught.

00:47:29.000 Or I don't know anything about it.

00:47:30.000 That's the route guys go as well.

00:47:32.000 But the bottom line is it's going to come out.

00:47:33.000 I thought he had a good opportunity to tell us what it was and perhaps give a guess as to how it got in his system.

00:47:39.000 If he's going to take that path, the outright denial path, that's not a great one, historically.

00:47:44.000 But some guys take it.

00:47:45.000 If that's the route he's going to go to, of outright denial, Tell us what it is.

00:47:49.000 Oh, yeah, here we go.

00:47:52.000 Substance test warning.

00:47:53.000 Bodybuilders and other athletes subjected to substance testing should never use this product unless first approved by the validating organization.

00:48:00.000 Product may cause a drug test result called false positive urinary blood.

00:48:05.000 What is this stuff?

00:48:07.000 Oh, is this the company that John uses? 1.00

00:48:10.000 Oh, shit. 1.00

00:48:11.000 That guy's clean. 1.00

00:48:12.000 Hold on a second! 0.93

00:48:13.000 Hold on a second! 0.93

00:48:14.000 All that guy's doing is taking testogen. 1.00

00:48:17.000 Look at the fucking guy! 1.00

00:48:19.000 Oh my god! 1.00

00:48:20.000 This is hilarious.

00:48:22.000 When you go to this GATT website and, you know...

00:48:27.000 I don't know what's in there.

00:48:28.000 I don't know if this is a good company.

00:48:30.000 I know nothing other than what I'm seeing right now. 0.99

00:48:33.000 You're looking at a guy in their photos that's FUCKING CLEARLY ON STEROIDS! FUCKING CLEARLY ON STEROIDS! He's on Testigen! 1.00

00:48:42.000 He says it right there, Jeff. 1.00

00:48:43.000 If that guy, that massive mountain of muscle is not on steroids, send me that shit. 1.00

00:48:50.000 Send it to me. 1.00

00:48:51.000 Box it up. 0.99

00:48:53.000 I'll fucking, I'll promote it for a month for free. 0.99

00:48:55.000 If you can get that guy to look like that and test positive or test negative, like that guy's not on Anadrol 50 and fucking test sip-inate and every other fucking thing in the book and Gorilla Cum and whatever the fuck he's on. 0.99

00:49:13.000 You should not- I hate to be the guy. 0.98

00:49:16.000 Why is the white guy so skinny in the background?

00:49:18.000 Look at that photo again.

00:49:18.000 It kind of looks like Greg Jackson's brother a little bit, doesn't it?

00:49:21.000 What's that white guy doing in the background?

00:49:22.000 Like, that white guy has a skinny neck, and, you know, he's kind of trapped, or he's flexing them, but they're not really that impressive. 0.74

00:49:29.000 And he's in the back, like, looking at this black guy. 1.00

00:49:31.000 This is like some cuckold type shit. 1.00

00:49:33.000 That's what this is. 1.00

00:49:34.000 This black guy's just doing curls, and he's about to fuck the shit out of his girl. 1.00

00:49:38.000 And the other guy's, like, looking through the curtain, like, man, I don't even know what to do here. 1.00

00:49:42.000 Look at his face.

00:49:43.000 He's not lifting.

00:49:44.000 What is that guy doing in the back?

00:49:46.000 He's got minimal chest development.

00:49:48.000 He looks kind of scrawny.

00:49:49.000 I would suspect he has something to do with the company or his father does.

00:49:52.000 That's generally how these things work out.

00:49:54.000 That's bizarre.

00:49:56.000 That's a bizarre choice.

00:49:59.000 Why is that distracting guy over that gentleman's shoulder? 0.98

00:50:02.000 Like one guy's looking at his arms like, yeah, fucking look, I'm getting big. 1.00

00:50:07.000 This gat shit is working good, man. 1.00

00:50:09.000 I'm getting big, bro. 1.00

00:50:10.000 Oh, I'm clean.

00:50:11.000 I got a dog tag on.

00:50:13.000 Probably never been in the military.

00:50:14.000 Just so I like to wear dog tags.

00:50:16.000 Let everybody know I'm going to war.

00:50:19.000 That's like a dog tag with like, it's like bedazzled.

00:50:23.000 See, it's got like, tune in on that. 1.00

00:50:26.000 See, it's got like, on the outside edge of it, it's got like little fucking rhinestones and shit. 1.00

00:50:30.000 It's a black dog tag, too. 1.00

00:50:32.000 It's not even a real dog tag. 1.00

00:50:34.000 This is a weird fucking photo shoot. 0.99

00:50:40.000 I don't understand it. 0.99

00:50:41.000 So there it is.

00:50:42.000 So there, directions for testogen.

00:50:43.000 Let's go to that directions.

00:50:45.000 I want to find out what I'm supposed to do to get like that guy.

00:50:47.000 Is this the company that John's with or this is just what we brought up?

00:50:50.000 Oh, this is John's.

00:50:51.000 No, this is the company.

00:50:52.000 Okay.

00:50:52.000 On training and non-training days, it's a dietary supplement.

00:50:55.000 Take two to three tablets with breakfast, another two to three tablets with lunch every day.

00:50:59.000 After six weeks of continual use, one month break is recommended.

00:51:02.000 So it's a cycle.

00:51:04.000 Okay, what are the ingredients?

00:51:05.000 Let's go all the way up.

00:51:07.000 What do we got here?

00:51:09.000 Hmm.

00:51:10.000 Vitamin E, vitamin B6, magnesium, zinc, selenium, chromium.

00:51:14.000 No problem there.

00:51:15.000 Okay.

00:51:15.000 Testogen mass strength and size formula.

00:51:18.000 3B-hydroxy-5-androsten.

00:51:21.000 Sten, not stein, 17-1.

00:51:24.000 Okay.

00:51:25.000 Okay.

00:51:25.000 3-1-H-Indol.

00:51:28.000 Okay, yeah.

00:51:30.000 These are tricky little things.

00:51:32.000 Beta-citosterol from soy and other vegetable oils.

00:51:37.000 Okay, I don't know why you have to tell me that. 0.99

00:51:39.000 A bunch of bullshit after that. 0.99

00:51:43.000 They always throw, okay, wild yam root 25 milligrams. 1.00

00:51:47.000 That's nonsense.

00:51:48.000 Wild yams are where they get testosterone from. 1.00

00:51:51.000 They actually extract testosterone.

00:51:52.000 They make it out of wild yams.

00:51:55.000 When a company throws in like 25 milligrams of wild yam, what are you doing?

00:52:00.000 Like, you're just trying to pretend that that's significant.

00:52:03.000 Your wild yam root. 0.77

00:52:05.000 A lot of goofy stuff in here.

00:52:07.000 Ginseng extract.

00:52:08.000 Why do you have ginseng?

00:52:09.000 Yeah, well, come on, he's not taking it.

00:52:12.000 What do you think?

00:52:12.000 Jon Jones is waking up and taking this stuff?

00:52:14.000 Come on.

00:52:14.000 Why not?

00:52:15.000 If it doesn't...

00:52:16.000 Beta-alanine works.

00:52:18.000 It's got 500 milligrams of beta-alanine.

00:52:19.000 That stuff's legit.

00:52:20.000 I mean, uh...

00:52:23.000 How do you say it?

00:52:24.000 Mucuna parensis, purensis extract. 0.84

00:52:26.000 That's been known to boost human growth hormone, I believe.

00:52:32.000 But I'm looking at all this stuff that he's doing.

00:52:34.000 I might be wrong about that.

00:52:35.000 I don't even know how to say that word.

00:52:37.000 I don't even know if he was officially taking this particular supplement.

00:52:40.000 I just, when I googled that company and just, this is the first one that came up.

00:52:45.000 Of course, right.

00:52:46.000 Yeah, so this is just by that company.

00:52:49.000 We don't know.

00:52:49.000 But none of these things are estrogen blockers.

00:52:52.000 So, it doesn't make sense unless he got a tainted supplement, which, again, and this is not the fault of the company, happens all the time.

00:53:01.000 Because the way a supplement company works, like say if you wanted to buy creatine or something from a company, you buy it in bulk from a supplier.

00:53:09.000 And that supplier, you might be in China or who knows where, and they mix these things up and they use the same vats.

00:53:16.000 Like, that was the Anderson Silva story.

00:53:19.000 That was his alibi, is that he was buying...

00:53:23.000 Liquid Cialis, and he was buying it from a company that also sold steroids.

00:53:28.000 And apparently, according to people that know him, that is actually what happened.

00:53:33.000 Which sounds crazy.

00:53:35.000 Very.

00:53:36.000 Well, and he tested positive for three things, so maybe that knocks one off the list.

00:53:40.000 Yeah, I hear you.

00:53:42.000 There is some confusion there.

00:53:44.000 Yeah.

00:53:45.000 I mean, that story's BS, but I hear what you're saying.

00:53:47.000 There is confusion in there.

00:53:49.000 Tim Means was innocent.

00:53:50.000 100%.

00:53:51.000 And Yoel Romero.

00:53:52.000 They ruled that.

00:53:53.000 That's not my opinion.

00:53:54.000 They ruled that.

00:53:55.000 You look at Yoel Romero.

00:53:56.000 I mean, you want to talk about not passing the smell test? 1.00

00:53:59.000 That guy is a goddamn freak of nature. 1.00

00:54:02.000 I've never seen a guy. 1.00

00:54:03.000 Out of all the other freaks, he makes the other freaks look fucked up. 1.00

00:54:07.000 Sure. 1.00

00:54:07.000 And Frank Mir. 1.00

00:54:09.000 That's a weird one, too.

00:54:11.000 Even their own science.

00:54:12.000 They're confused on Frank Mir's because his metabolites were so low where they're going, well, look, you passed here, you passed here, but you didn't hear for your metabolites to be this low.

00:54:21.000 You would have had to have taken it six weeks before, but we tested you there.

00:54:25.000 They're even confused on their science there.

00:54:27.000 They've admitted that.

00:54:28.000 They've gone, well, this shows up.

00:54:29.000 We've got to do something with it, but...

00:54:31.000 We don't understand how you had this reading.

00:54:34.000 And Frank's like, I'll tell you everything I did.

00:54:36.000 I'll tell you everything I ate.

00:54:37.000 I don't know how this works.

00:54:38.000 You give me the answer.

00:54:39.000 And they're even confused, themselves, going, this shouldn't be.

00:54:43.000 It is.

00:54:43.000 We've got to deal with it, but it shouldn't be.

00:54:44.000 Did they test his supplements?

00:54:45.000 They test the things that he was telling them?

00:54:47.000 Frank hadn't taken any supplements.

00:54:48.000 That was the other thing he said.

00:54:49.000 He fought in some different country.

00:54:51.000 He goes, look – and everybody made fun of him for this, but he was just being honest.

00:54:54.000 He said kangaroo meat.

00:54:56.000 Yeah, and he knows how – he said – now, the headlines made him look bad, but Frank was just being keen.

00:55:01.000 He goes, look, the only thing I've done different, I was in this different country, I ate some kangaroo meat for the first time.

00:55:05.000 Everyone teased him, but he's going, this is what USADA asked me.

00:55:08.000 They asked me, have you done anything different?

00:55:10.000 Well, the IOC is telling athletes in certain parts of the world, in China and in Russia in particular, to not eat the meat.

00:55:17.000 Because if you eat the meat, you could potentially test positive.

00:55:20.000 Right.

00:55:21.000 Depending on when it came in.

00:55:22.000 So Frank offering them that was just, you know, he got teased for it, but he was just being candid.

00:55:27.000 He might be right.

00:55:28.000 Yeah, he could be.

00:55:29.000 I mean, he might have got some unscrupulous kangaroo meat. 0.99

00:55:31.000 Yeah, and Frank's always been an open guy.

00:55:33.000 He was on testosterone.

00:55:34.000 He wasn't one of the guys that tried to hide it like the other guys.

00:55:36.000 He went and asked for the TV. I mean, Frank's a pretty straight-up guy.

00:55:39.000 He's an open book.

00:55:40.000 And it's not all great stuff.

00:55:41.000 I mean, he'll tell you this.

00:55:42.000 He'll tell you.

00:55:43.000 When Frank says, I believe him.

00:55:46.000 Yeah, I do as well.

00:55:47.000 Yeah, he's just...

00:55:48.000 And he has also a career of being straight-up to start being deceptive now over something that doesn't really necessarily make sense.

00:55:55.000 You know, after losing to Mark Hunt like that, it just doesn't make sense.

00:55:58.000 It doesn't make sense.

00:55:59.000 The testosterone thing...

00:56:02.000 That is another thing that I feel like was medically very irresponsible, the way they handled it, and also that they didn't allow guys to take something like an estrogen block or something that, HCG, or something that restarts your endocrine system,

00:56:19.000 but yet they allowed these guys to fight and schedule fights just a couple of months after getting off testosterone therapy.

00:56:26.000 So you put these athletes in a very precarious situation where you're dangling this gigantic financial carrot in front of them.

00:56:31.000 You know, you're saying, hey, man, we got a fight.

00:56:34.000 You know, you're gonna make X amount of dollars.

00:56:36.000 This is gonna be awesome for you.

00:56:37.000 But here's the kicker.

00:56:38.000 No more testosterone.

00:56:40.000 Sure. 1.00

00:56:40.000 All this stuff that's been making you feel good and making your camps go better and allowing you to recover faster, that shit's out the door. 1.00

00:56:48.000 Right. 0.98

00:56:48.000 So now you have to deal with not just your 37-year-old endocrine system, which is, you know, fine, but a 37-year-old endocrine system that needs to be restarted. 0.98

00:56:58.000 And you can't restart it.

00:56:59.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:56:59.000 And they do put him in a tough spot, too.

00:57:02.000 And I would be curious if this was ever tested in a court, because they put him in an interesting spot where a guy gets advice from his doctor, which you're supposed to listen to, and he has to cross-reference that advice.

00:57:12.000 With an athletic commission.

00:57:14.000 Yes.

00:57:14.000 And you're going, well, time out a second.

00:57:15.000 We're not talking about illegal drugs here.

00:57:16.000 We're talking about legal medicine.

00:57:19.000 Yes.

00:57:19.000 FDA-approved medicine that I'm taking appropriately and in conjunction with my physician, and you're telling me I can't take it.

00:57:26.000 And that even happens with the common cold flu.

00:57:28.000 Yeah.

00:57:28.000 Advil being...

00:57:29.000 Some of these silly things that are over...

00:57:31.000 Anderson Silva.

00:57:32.000 So he popped for that steroid.

00:57:33.000 But two of the things he popped for were over-the-counter.

00:57:36.000 One of them is a sleep aid that sits on the shelf next to NyQuil.

00:57:40.000 None of us knew was banned until...

00:57:42.000 He got flagged for it.

00:57:43.000 Well, scratch our head.

00:57:43.000 Maybe that's on the banned list.

00:57:45.000 What does the sleep aid provide as far as performance benefits?

00:57:48.000 So everybody likes to go back to that and go, this doesn't help my performance.

00:57:52.000 It's not a performance test.

00:57:53.000 It's not a steroids test.

00:57:54.000 It's not a drugs test.

00:57:55.000 It's a banned substance test.

00:57:58.000 And that's where they go way out of bounds sometimes.

00:58:01.000 I think back to the Chinese gymnast where they stripped her medal in 2004 and kicked her out of the Olympics forever because she had a billionth of a trace of ibuprofen, which has a street name of aspirin. 0.90

00:58:12.000 This is silly. 0.95

00:58:13.000 You know, this is silly. 0.98

00:58:14.000 Well, it's an anti-inflammatory and that would help performance. 0.91

00:58:16.000 That's a good thing.

00:58:18.000 To take a legal thing that you've found that can help your performance.

00:58:22.000 Why would you take anything that could hurt you?

00:58:23.000 That was another thing that John came out.

00:58:25.000 He was so adamant that I took nothing to help my performance.

00:58:29.000 I'm going, John, I don't know why that's the high canon of bad things you don't want to be associated with.

00:58:33.000 You took coke, which is a felony, and can kill you, but now you're standing on the moral high ground that you didn't take anything that could help you.

00:58:41.000 That's just weird.

00:58:42.000 That's weird.

00:58:43.000 It's a weird way to phrase it.

00:58:45.000 If you say, I didn't take anything that would help my performance...

00:58:50.000 Then why should you take it?

00:58:51.000 No. 1.00

00:58:51.000 Say what the fuck you took and why you took it. 1.00

00:58:54.000 Sure. 1.00

00:58:54.000 Say what it is. 1.00

00:58:55.000 But why would you take anything?

00:58:58.000 It's a supplement or anything else.

00:58:59.000 Why would you take it if you didn't have a reasonable expectation that it would help your performance?

00:59:03.000 Because if you're not taking it for that, then you're taking it for the opposite.

00:59:05.000 It has to be one of the two.

00:59:06.000 Well, you're taking it for something else in life.

00:59:07.000 Maybe you're taking it for anxiety.

00:59:09.000 But that doesn't make any sense with what he was taking it.

00:59:12.000 But, you know, look, Anderson was taking Liquid Seattle because he likes to party.

00:59:17.000 Sure.

00:59:18.000 I mean, why do people take different things that have nothing to do with athletic performance?

00:59:24.000 They take it because there's a desired result.

00:59:28.000 But what I'm saying, if you're trying to fall under the scope of a medicine, like an estrogen block or testosterone, those are classified as medicine, and the media can call it drugs all they want.

00:59:37.000 That's medicine under the FDA. You can't become a medicine unless you can reasonably prove that it's going to help a patient.

00:59:43.000 You can't be a doctor, give somebody something that brings them down and makes them worse.

00:59:47.000 That's malpractice. 0.87

00:59:48.000 Well, here's one thing that I know for sure.

00:59:50.000 So what I'm saying is I don't know why he denied that it would help his performance.

00:59:53.000 Like, well, of course you took it to make you feel better.

00:59:54.000 Whatever.

00:59:55.000 I'm drinking coffee right now for the caffeine.

00:59:57.000 Right.

00:59:57.000 That's just what it is.

00:59:58.000 Yeah, that helps your performance.

00:59:59.000 And you were one of the first people to tell me that there's a very specific amount of caffeine that you're allowed to have.

01:00:05.000 So you would take it in pill form.

01:00:07.000 You wouldn't trust a cup of coffee.

01:00:08.000 Well, yes, that's true. 0.98

01:00:11.000 That is true, but I just think that's a ridiculous one, too.

01:00:15.000 Now, you'd have to be tested, your body, all these different things, but they say that two cups of coffee in a 15-minute period will make you test hot.

01:00:24.000 Now, you'll only test hot for about 15 minutes because caffeine wears off so fast, but yes, if somebody was to come in right now, I've got three different coffees in front of me, I could be above the limit on that, and I'm sitting here going, I'm getting jazzed up to do a podcast.

01:00:37.000 I'm not sure that that...

01:00:38.000 I'm not sure that that relates, but the rules are the rules.

01:00:41.000 I'd be cheating.

01:00:41.000 But is that out of competition, since it has such a short life?

01:00:44.000 Like, if you came in here...

01:00:45.000 Because, like, when John tested positive for cocaine against Daniel, it was three weeks out, so it was out of competition.

01:00:51.000 So it wasn't like he was fighting coked up.

01:00:54.000 That's right.

01:00:54.000 And there is two different sets of standards there.

01:00:58.000 Caffeine, if you're out of competition, you must be fine.

01:01:02.000 Advil, we talked about Advil.

01:01:03.000 There is some that are only banned in competition, they're allowed out of competition, and then there's some no-no's forever.

01:01:08.000 But that's where it starts to get confusing.

01:01:10.000 And then the way they've handled it is to go, it's on the athlete.

01:01:14.000 It's like, well, okay, fair enough, but athletes, particularly fighters, are the lowest form of society.

01:01:19.000 You're the government.

01:01:20.000 You can't just put it on the athletes.

01:01:22.000 It's got to be.

01:01:23.000 You're the government.

01:01:24.000 You're operating on the taxpayer's dollar.

01:01:26.000 You've got offices.

01:01:26.000 You're making the rules.

01:01:28.000 You take some responsibility, too.

01:01:30.000 Yeah.

01:01:30.000 No, I agree.

01:01:31.000 I agree.

01:01:31.000 And I think, especially when you're talking about a medical issue like this testosterone therapy issue.

01:01:37.000 I mean, it's worked itself out.

01:01:38.000 The dust did settle in time.

01:01:39.000 They allowed it to just play itself out. 0.99

01:01:41.000 But I think a lot of guys got fucked over. 0.98

01:01:43.000 And I hate to be a Vitor apologist. 0.98

01:01:48.000 Because I was such a fan of TRT Vitor.

01:01:52.000 You loved him.

01:01:52.000 Oh my god.

01:01:53.000 We all did. 0.69

01:01:54.000 He was such a freak.

01:01:54.000 He was great.

01:01:55.000 When he fought Bisping and Rock Hole, he's wheel kicking people. 0.99

01:01:59.000 TRT Vitor was fucking terrifying. 0.79

01:02:01.000 But Vitor, when he fought Weidman, I remember feeling when he went into the octagon and I saw him bouncing around and his loose skin was moving all over his body. 1.00

01:02:11.000 I was like, wow, this guy's fucked. 1.00

01:02:13.000 Like, his body's fucked. 1.00

01:02:14.000 This is not a regular 37-year-old guy who's in shape, who hasn't taken anything. 1.00

01:02:19.000 No, this is a fucking world championship caliber pro athlete whose body's been just compromised. 0.99

01:02:26.000 Like, massively compromised. 0.99

01:02:28.000 I mean, he's rebounded.

01:02:29.000 He looks much better now. 0.99

01:02:30.000 But goddamn, he looked terrible then. 0.99

01:02:32.000 And HCG is so important for that. 0.99

01:02:34.000 Any doctor will tell you, if you go on testosterone, you've got to then go on HCG. You've got to turn that back on.

01:02:39.000 He didn't have that benefit.

01:02:41.000 The rules came in.

01:02:42.000 He had two different flags, and he just wasn't ready to go down that path.

01:02:45.000 So he literally stopped everything cold turkey, opposite of the advice of his doctor.

01:02:49.000 Now, I've never asked him about that.

01:02:50.000 I just know his doctor would have said, look, this is what you need.

01:02:52.000 And he goes, I'm out.

01:02:54.000 There's no room for error here.

01:02:55.000 They've changed the rules.

01:02:56.000 I'm out.

01:02:57.000 Well, that's what's crazy is they don't...

01:02:58.000 And that can affect him long term, Joe.

01:02:59.000 It certainly can.

01:03:00.000 And certainly the beating that he took could affect him long term.

01:03:03.000 And the beating...

01:03:04.000 There's a big factor of having incredibly low testosterone.

01:03:08.000 He had very low testosterone when he went into that fight.

01:03:10.000 There would be a possibility...

01:03:12.000 Actually, see, that's not true.

01:03:14.000 I should recant that.

01:03:17.000 Because Weidman got in his face at the weigh-in and was saying, because he tested it 1,200, and Weidman tested it 3. And he was like, what the fuck is going on? 0.97

01:03:27.000 How do you have four times as much testosterone as me? 1.00

01:03:31.000 I talked to Nowitzki about it. 1.00

01:03:32.000 I was like, please explain to a moron like me what the fuck is going on. 1.00

01:03:37.000 And they were saying, well, it's dependent. 1.00

01:03:39.000 It's time dependent.

01:03:41.000 It's how much available testosterone.

01:03:43.000 When did they test him?

01:03:44.000 Was he recovering from sleep?

01:03:46.000 Was he at his peak?

01:03:48.000 Had he done explosive athletics like squats or deadlifts very recently and then recovered his testosterone, ramped back up?

01:03:56.000 Did they catch Weidman after Weidman had a grueling workout and his testosterone was Down, right.

01:04:02.000 There's a lot of factors, apparently, that play into that.

01:04:05.000 And Weidman had even said himself, he said, look, I kind of have low testosterone while TRT was legal.

01:04:11.000 He's like, I could qualify for it.

01:04:12.000 I can go in and qualify for it.

01:04:14.000 Yeah, I remember that very well.

01:04:16.000 But Vitor did not have any, he did not have testosterone.

01:04:21.000 His level was high and all of that, but he didn't have any endogenous testosterone in him.

01:04:26.000 He had no supplement whatsoever.

01:04:27.000 So that was a little bit misunderstood.

01:04:29.000 You mean exogenous.

01:04:31.000 Thank you very much.

01:04:34.000 Weidman, when he was tested, if he would have been tested in the morning, it would have been down.

01:04:38.000 If he would have just had a hard workout and chewed up a lot of the testosterone, it would have been down.

01:04:42.000 So that was a little confusing.

01:04:44.000 Vitor's hands were clean there, and Chris was misunderstanding what he was reading.

01:04:49.000 And let loose on him.

01:04:50.000 And Chris had every right to assume that Vitor was still trying to slip that through.

01:04:54.000 That was the better part of his career.

01:04:56.000 But in fairness, he wasn't.

01:04:57.000 When Vitor goes, hey, I'm out, he was out.

01:05:00.000 And they tested the hell out of Vitor.

01:05:02.000 He's passed them all.

01:05:03.000 Vitor went straight.

01:05:04.000 Yeah, he had to.

01:05:05.000 And his body really showed it.

01:05:07.000 Well, when he fought Henderson, the third Henderson fight in Brazil, he looked like he was gaining his muscle mass back.

01:05:16.000 He looked a little bit better.

01:05:17.000 But he just does not look like TRT Vitor.

01:05:21.000 Physically, he's the guy that's had the biggest difference.

01:05:26.000 And I just I feel like if you're gonna to just say you have to be off of it I think is ridiculous I think I mean he wanted that title shot and is really important to him but I feel like that medically they had a responsibility to give the guy a break like to say we're gonna give you six months of Restorative therapy,

01:05:46.000 you know allow your body to come back into a normal testosterone range and then re-enter into the drug testing And we'll test you during that time to make sure that you're not taking anything else on top of that.

01:06:00.000 But to not allow the guy any sort of medicine that can restart his endocrine system seems very irresponsible when it's such a primary factor in performance. 0.98

01:06:13.000 You're not talking about, like, fucking volleyball. 0.98

01:06:15.000 You're talking about head kicks, you know? 0.99

01:06:17.000 And the difference between getting beat up and not getting beat up, between getting brain damage and not getting brain damage, that could play a huge factor in that.

01:06:25.000 Right.

01:06:25.000 Yeah, and I think in hindsight, I think the commission would have handled it different.

01:06:29.000 They've kind of even said that.

01:06:30.000 Hey, we pulled the rug out here.

01:06:32.000 They went as close to taking some of the responsibilities you could without taking it.

01:06:36.000 And the other side was fighters.

01:06:38.000 We should have been able to just go, time.

01:06:41.000 Time out.

01:06:42.000 I can't comply.

01:06:43.000 But I want to be in compliance, but I can't right now.

01:06:45.000 I'm taking my oars out of the water.

01:06:47.000 I'm going to go do my...

01:06:48.000 Leave me out of it.

01:06:49.000 Don't test me.

01:06:49.000 I'll tell you right now, it's not...

01:06:51.000 Give me six months to your point.

01:06:52.000 You'd almost have to retire.

01:06:54.000 Uh-huh.

01:06:54.000 But none of us knew.

01:06:55.000 See, none of us knew what we didn't know.

01:06:57.000 Like with Vantelay, when the guy showed up, when the guy came to me and I'm in the closet with, none of us knew what was going on.

01:07:01.000 It's kind of a different world now.

01:07:03.000 You have to have that education process.

01:07:05.000 Whatever John's going through, what Tim means, what Frank...

01:07:07.000 This is how we learn.

01:07:08.000 We learn from guys stumbling and stubbing their toe.

01:07:11.000 They just don't give a big allowance for that.

01:07:13.000 It's pretty black and white on these rules.

01:07:15.000 John's going to be out for two years.

01:07:16.000 I keep hearing things speculative on how long he's going to be.

01:07:19.000 It's real clear.

01:07:20.000 It's going to be out for two years.

01:07:21.000 That's the minimum.

01:07:22.000 If he tests it, he's out for two years.

01:07:24.000 That's just what it is.

01:07:25.000 Well, Anderson wasn't out for two years.

01:07:27.000 Why is that?

01:07:29.000 Anderson beat the clock on the mandatory how long you're out.

01:07:34.000 He came in just before that.

01:07:35.000 Hector Lombard came in just before that.

01:07:37.000 So those guys weren't subject to that.

01:07:40.000 Anderson got, they could have done whatever they want to him.

01:07:42.000 The standard was nine to twelve months.

01:07:45.000 He probably would have got nine, but he denied it to the end.

01:07:47.000 They hate that.

01:07:48.000 He shows up, all of a sudden he doesn't speak English.

01:07:50.000 They hate that.

01:07:51.000 Ha ha ha.

01:07:52.000 They were still pretty light on him, though, for three substances and a guy that still was resisting the test and coming in with a story and refusing to talk to him.

01:08:01.000 Twelve months?

01:08:01.000 They were pretty reasonable.

01:08:03.000 By their standard.

01:08:04.000 By their standard.

01:08:05.000 What do you think is a reasonable suspension? 0.90

01:08:07.000 If a guy does get popped for estrogen blockers and he says, hey, I fucked up, I wanted an edge, I took it.

01:08:13.000 What's a reasonable amount of suspension?

01:08:16.000 My answer will be different because you said four estrogen blockers.

01:08:19.000 Again, he's blocking something.

01:08:21.000 He's not adding something.

01:08:22.000 He's blocking something.

01:08:23.000 Now, they come back in with their intellectual approach and go, well, you're only blocking it because you did something before.

01:08:27.000 We didn't catch it before, so we're going to get you now.

01:08:29.000 Eh, not a terrible argument, but if you just look at what he did, I think there needs to be some conversation there.

01:08:35.000 I was there in front of the commission one day.

01:08:37.000 I got approved for a steroid, for testosterone.

01:08:41.000 That same day, Nick Diaz took a $100,000 fine and lost his license for a year for pot, of which he had illegal medication for.

01:08:52.000 You know the story on that.

01:08:53.000 So you never know what's going to happen when you get in there.

01:08:56.000 You never know what's going to happen.

01:08:57.000 It's not a courtroom.

01:08:58.000 Media likes to say he's going to have his day in court.

01:09:00.000 Well, you don't have a day in court.

01:09:02.000 Implies a judge, which implies a disinterested third party.

01:09:05.000 You're going in front of the people who have accused you.

01:09:08.000 So if they clear you, they're now admitting they got it wrong to start with.

01:09:11.000 That's literally never happened.

01:09:13.000 They have never been wrong.

01:09:15.000 Where they go, hey, we had this wrong.

01:09:16.000 Go on about your day.

01:09:17.000 That's never happened.

01:09:17.000 Is Vanderlei the first guy to sue the Athletic Commission and win?

01:09:22.000 Was he the first?

01:09:23.000 I can't think of anyone else, but I'd have to look.

01:09:25.000 You know, Nick Diaz did the same thing.

01:09:26.000 And they finally said, okay, look, let's settle with him.

01:09:28.000 But I think with Nick Diaz, they made a compromise.

01:09:30.000 And they abandoned him for five years for pot, and the world went crazy. 0.98

01:09:34.000 And I gave out the fucking Nevada State Athletic Commission's phone number. 0.99

01:09:37.000 I was like, call him up, tell him it sucks. 1.00

01:09:39.000 Sure. 0.99

01:09:40.000 And the whole world went crazy.

01:09:41.000 The internet, they were making petitions, and everybody was emailing and writing people.

01:09:46.000 People were justifiably outraged.

01:09:49.000 But that was a little bit different.

01:09:51.000 They reduced his sentence, and the Vandele thing was interesting, because it seemed like a judge outside of the commission made the call.

01:09:58.000 That is who did it.

01:09:59.000 And it was really weird, because they came in with two things.

01:10:02.000 First off, can you ban him for life?

01:10:03.000 And second, did you have jurisdiction over him?

01:10:06.000 Now, if you read the statute, you don't have to be a lawyer.

01:10:09.000 The statute is very small, and it's extremely clear they did not have jurisdiction over him.

01:10:14.000 At the same time, they can do anything they want, so they could ban him for life.

01:10:19.000 You get in front of the judge, the judge ruled just the opposite.

01:10:21.000 You can't ban him for life, that's too extreme, which is not true, per the statute.

01:10:25.000 They can do that.

01:10:27.000 Historically, they haven't, but they can.

01:10:29.000 They did not have the right to test him, though, because he was not licensed yet in Nevada, and the statute clearly says to the licensee of which he was not.

01:10:38.000 Kaiser, who was in at the time, said, listen, the fight's been announced in my state, he's in my state, that gives me the right.

01:10:45.000 Well, the judge agreed with him.

01:10:47.000 The judge got it just backwards, but when the judge then did not rule on how long the suspension would be, he sent him back to Nevada.

01:10:56.000 He still hasn't got that result.

01:10:58.000 So for every day that they kick the can down the road, they win.

01:11:01.000 He's still suspended.

01:11:02.000 So he got his release from the UFC. He can go fight in any other state he wants right now.

01:11:05.000 Well, he's preparing to fight Fedor, right?

01:11:07.000 Isn't that a fight they were trying to make for Ryzen?

01:11:10.000 Not that I know of.

01:11:11.000 I heard a rumor that he would get to that eventually, but Vandalay's got some kind of wrestling thing lined up for like a tag team wrestling match is how he's going to ease his way back into a pool.

01:11:20.000 He just got hit by a car.

01:11:21.000 Yeah, I read that, but he's okay, fortunately.

01:11:23.000 Yeah, well, I thought he had shoulder surgery.

01:11:25.000 He could have.

01:11:26.000 He could have, but I heard it hasn't delayed his competition.

01:11:29.000 Okay.

01:11:30.000 Yeah, well, I had heard that he was going to be fighting.

01:11:33.000 See if you can find that.

01:11:34.000 I heard that he was going to be fighting Fedor in Japan.

01:11:38.000 And, you know, Fedor, man, seeing his fight with Maldonado, it's like, wow, how far the mighty have fallen.

01:11:45.000 He just does not look the same at all.

01:11:47.000 Fatigue's a son of a gun, too.

01:11:49.000 Man, when you get tired, it doesn't matter how good you are.

01:11:51.000 It doesn't matter what you did before.

01:11:53.000 If you get tired, you've got problems.

01:11:54.000 Now, the good news for him is Maldonado got tired, too.

01:11:57.000 Yeah, Mo Maldonado's never been a guy that's been the most conditioned guy in the world, but he is a guy with fantastic boxing.

01:12:04.000 Very good boxing.

01:12:05.000 And he caught Fedor with a couple good shots and had him really badly hurt.

01:12:08.000 A lot of people think that fight could have been stopped under a bad judge.

01:12:12.000 I don't think it should have been stopped, but under a bad referee it could have been.

01:12:15.000 Or a referee that was a little too quick to pull the trigger.

01:12:17.000 Or if it wasn't in Russia.

01:12:18.000 Yeah, there was definitely some politics there.

01:12:21.000 And I felt bad for Maldonado.

01:12:23.000 You know, Maldonado thought he was going to get a fair shake.

01:12:25.000 And I'm looking at it going, well, no, Maldonado, make sure you get a good paycheck because you're not getting a fair shake in Russia.

01:12:29.000 And then he even filed a complaint after the fact, a petition.

01:12:33.000 I think he filed two.

01:12:34.000 Yeah, it's like Maldonado.

01:12:34.000 Just stop, man.

01:12:35.000 Maybe you don't know how this works over there, but it's over.

01:12:38.000 Yeah, it's over.

01:12:39.000 I mean, unless he flatlined him, he wasn't winning.

01:12:41.000 Right.

01:12:41.000 He would have had to have knocked him out.

01:12:43.000 And I'm sure whatever referee at the time would be very hesitant to stop that fight, even with Fedor getting his brains beat.

01:12:51.000 Sure.

01:12:51.000 If he thought he could make it to the bell...

01:12:53.000 And the real controversy was that first round that you're talking about where the ref could have stopped, it probably should have.

01:12:58.000 It wasn't a 10-8 round.

01:12:59.000 And it's like, look, if that's not a 10-8 round, then what is?

01:13:02.000 And that fight should have been a draw.

01:13:04.000 It was one round, but it was 10-8 to two rounds for Fedor.

01:13:07.000 A lot of people argue rounds two and three, but they're wrong.

01:13:10.000 Fedor won those rounds, but he won them.

01:13:12.000 It should have been a draw.

01:13:13.000 Yeah, him not being in the UFC during his prime is one of the great tragedies of MMA. I really, really feel that.

01:13:20.000 I would have loved to have seen the Fedor that fought Krokop fight in the UFC, and I think he would have been heavyweight champion.

01:13:26.000 I really do.

01:13:27.000 The only argument against him being the greatest of all time, in my opinion, is Cain Velasquez.

01:13:32.000 And I guess you could kind of make it for Verdum.

01:13:36.000 But I think Verdum that got knocked out by Stipe was a healthy Verdum. 0.98

01:13:40.000 He just got emotional and crazy and he charged after Stipe and Stipe's that fucking good. 0.97

01:13:44.000 Yeah, he is. 0.98

01:13:45.000 He's really good. 1.00

01:13:46.000 I mean, Stipe's a bad motherfucker. 1.00

01:13:48.000 No doubt about it. 0.99

01:13:49.000 He's a deserving world champion.

01:13:51.000 But man, I would have loved to have seen primetime Kane versus primetime Fadon.

01:13:56.000 Sure.

01:13:56.000 I'd love to see it too.

01:13:57.000 And I maintain that Kane is the most intimidating figure in the heavyweight division.

01:14:01.000 That even though he's jerking the curtain on Saturday night for the biggest card ever, he is the most intimidating guy.

01:14:08.000 What does that mean, jerking the curtain?

01:14:09.000 Jerk in the curtain is the guy that starts the show. 0.60

01:14:12.000 You've got to pull the curtain out of the way to start the show.

01:14:14.000 Because he started it on Saturday night?

01:14:16.000 Because he started it on Saturday night.

01:14:17.000 You've got the former heavyweight champion who's headlined cards and had bills with his name on the top of them.

01:14:22.000 Now all of a sudden he's jerking the curtain at the start of the show.

01:14:24.000 But that's just because it's UFC 200. Well that's what I'm saying.

01:14:26.000 It was the biggest card there was.

01:14:27.000 What a performance he had though.

01:14:29.000 Great performance. 0.84

01:14:29.000 Travis Brown is nobody's fool. 0.84

01:14:31.000 No.

01:14:31.000 Travis Brown's ranked No.

01:14:32.000 4 in the world, was ranked No.

01:14:33.000 3, and he should be.

01:14:34.000 And Travis caught him clean with a straight right hand in that first round.

01:14:38.000 One of the few guys to beat Josh Barnett.

01:14:39.000 And Travis is a good heavyweight.

01:14:41.000 He needs to be a basketball player.

01:14:42.000 You talk about Stipe a minute ago.

01:14:43.000 Stipe's a good athlete.

01:14:45.000 And we don't have a ton of them.

01:14:46.000 You know, some of the great athletes that are that size, they go into some other professions.

01:14:49.000 You don't usually get them in this one.

01:14:51.000 Stipe's a good-looking heavyweight.

01:14:53.000 He moves well.

01:14:54.000 He works hard.

01:14:55.000 He's got the wrestling background.

01:14:56.000 Played baseball.

01:14:57.000 He's just a good guy, man.

01:14:58.000 Yeah, he really is.

01:14:59.000 He's a cool guy.

01:15:00.000 What Kane brings to the table is some freak cardio and perfect technique.

01:15:06.000 I mean, he's so unusual in his cardio.

01:15:10.000 What about that wheel kick?

01:15:11.000 Yeah, incredible.

01:15:12.000 That was crazy.

01:15:13.000 Two of them.

01:15:13.000 Threw two of them.

01:15:13.000 I was even trying that.

01:15:14.000 Who taught him that?

01:15:15.000 Javier pulled him aside and goes, hey Kane, we've got to start working on wheel kicks.

01:15:18.000 I don't know what it was.

01:15:19.000 It was insane.

01:15:19.000 But they were good.

01:15:20.000 They were beautiful.

01:15:21.000 There was nothing wrong with them. 0.99

01:15:23.000 When Weidman threw that wheel kick against Rockhold, you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what the fuck are you doing? 0.98

01:15:28.000 Right. 0.99

01:15:28.000 And then he gets taken down and beaten up. 0.99

01:15:29.000 Why?

01:15:29.000 Chris, why?

01:15:30.000 And it wasn't a good wheel kick.

01:15:32.000 It was a goofy wheel kick.

01:15:33.000 Yeah, it just didn't look right.

01:15:35.000 But when you saw a cane throw, you're like, oh, that's perfect.

01:15:37.000 Yeah.

01:15:38.000 But that's how he executes.

01:15:40.000 Punches, kicks, takedowns.

01:15:42.000 Everything is perfect.

01:15:43.000 There's no wind-up.

01:15:44.000 Nothing has extra horsepower behind it.

01:15:47.000 Everything's precise.

01:15:48.000 He's one of my favorite all-time guys to watch because of that.

01:15:51.000 Yeah, I agree with that.

01:15:51.000 And then you're pouring on Verdum.

01:15:53.000 So Verdum beats Fedor, who might be the greatest.

01:15:54.000 So you say you don't know who the greatest ever was.

01:15:56.000 Was it Fedor or was it Kane?

01:16:00.000 It could be Verdum.

01:16:01.000 Verdum beat them both.

01:16:02.000 But Verdum doesn't end up in the conversation.

01:16:04.000 It's one of those weird things.

01:16:05.000 He does.

01:16:05.000 I think he does.

01:16:08.000 Because you've got to think, the prime Verdum who beat Fedor, the prime Verdum that beat Kane, could probably have beaten those guys no matter what.

01:16:16.000 It's very possible he could have beaten those guys no matter what.

01:16:18.000 So I think he does go into the conversation.

01:16:20.000 It's just the history that Kane had and the history that Fedor had.

01:16:24.000 I mean, Kane's insane wars and the way he broke down Junior Dos Santos. 0.97

01:16:28.000 Gets knocked out in the first fight and then the next two fights just puts a fucking hellacious beating on him. 0.97

01:16:34.000 Right. 0.99

01:16:34.000 I think... 0.99

01:16:36.000 Boy, you know, MMA math sucks. 0.96

01:16:38.000 Sure. 0.63

01:16:40.000 It's real hard to say, this guy beat that guy, so he's No.

01:16:43.000 1, and that guy beat this guy.

01:16:44.000 And when you talk about it, one of the elements that comes in isn't the guy's wins and losses and his skills.

01:16:49.000 It's also an intimidation factor.

01:16:51.000 What kind of intimidation do you have?

01:16:52.000 Well, Verdun, you know, he makes the Joker face, and he's always teasing around.

01:16:56.000 So he gets overlooked, but I don't think that's fair.

01:16:58.000 You know, the same thing's happening to Bisping.

01:17:00.000 Weidman comes out.

01:17:01.000 He says Bisping's the most undeserving person of all time to end up in a title spot.

01:17:05.000 And I'm going, well, timeout.

01:17:07.000 And Chris is a stud, but Chris, timeout.

01:17:08.000 You become famous and world champion by beating Anderson Silva.

01:17:13.000 Bisping just beat the same guy that you beat.

01:17:16.000 Bisping just beat the same guy that put yourself over.

01:17:19.000 Why does it not put Bisping over?

01:17:20.000 Now he just beats Rockhold, who beat you, but Bisping's still not over.

01:17:24.000 And it's kind of a weird thing.

01:17:25.000 Not only does it put Bisping over, but Bisping beat Rockhold when Rockhold was fighting.

01:17:32.000 He wasn't clowning around.

01:17:33.000 When Chris beat Anderson, he beat him twice. 0.97

01:17:36.000 He beat him once when Anderson dropped his hands and was being silly. 0.69

01:17:39.000 And he got cracked.

01:17:41.000 And everybody was like, I can't believe Anderson did that.

01:17:44.000 It was a terrible way to lose.

01:17:46.000 It wasn't just that they were in exchange and Chris landed a bomb of a left hook.

01:17:50.000 No.

01:17:50.000 It was Anderson was pretending to be hurt...

01:17:53.000 And then he was like faking wobbling and trying to duck out of the way of punches like he always does and Chris cracked him.

01:17:58.000 Then the second fight, he breaks his leg.

01:18:01.000 I mean, he throws a kick, checks it, and breaks his leg.

01:18:04.000 Granted, Chris beat the shit out of him in the first round, and almost, you know, like, had him in bad trouble in that first round. 0.94

01:18:11.000 Controlled him on the ground, beat him up.

01:18:13.000 So they go into the second round, he breaks his leg in the second fight.

01:18:16.000 So those are more freakish than what Bisping did.

01:18:19.000 What Bisping did is just straight up. 0.97

01:18:21.000 He fucking landed a beautiful left hook, hurt him, moved in for the kill, closed the show, legit champion, 100% no controversy. 0.98

01:18:29.000 I fully agree with that. 0.99

01:18:30.000 And I love this Nukes matchup.

01:18:31.000 You heard it's going to be Dan Henderson.

01:18:33.000 And that doesn't go in the rankings.

01:18:34.000 I get all of that.

01:18:35.000 But I like the UFC when they make the matches that people want to see.

01:18:38.000 And that's an interesting match.

01:18:40.000 It is.

01:18:41.000 If you think Bisping's going to just go in and beat him, or you look at Dan's record, you think that Bisping doesn't go to bed at night remembering what that was like.

01:18:47.000 The teasing, the highlight reel, all the people, everybody telling him about making fun of him.

01:18:52.000 Dan's logo is him flying through the air when he pounded Bisping after he was unconscious.

01:18:57.000 Just to hit him one more time.

01:18:58.000 That's his logo. 0.85

01:18:59.000 Yeah.

01:19:00.000 I mean, it's his highlight reel knockout.

01:19:01.000 I stayed at Dan Henderson's house for a month, helping him train for Vitor, and when you turn Dan's TV off at night, the remote control says, lights out, and it's him hitting Bisping.

01:19:09.000 That's what lights up on his remote control.

01:19:13.000 I mean, if you think Dan doesn't have confidence going into this, sure he has confidence.

01:19:17.000 He knows he can beat him.

01:19:17.000 He already did.

01:19:18.000 And if you think Bisping's not going, man, I really don't want to be in there with that guy again.

01:19:21.000 He's going to say, oh, I want that one back.

01:19:22.000 He's going to say all those things and try to convince himself.

01:19:24.000 But the bottom line is, that's relevant.

01:19:27.000 Dan Henderson will be the world champion.

01:19:28.000 It's very possible.

01:19:30.000 Very possible!

01:19:31.000 Look, he just knocked Hector Lombard dead.

01:19:34.000 Hector's tougher than hell.

01:19:35.000 Hector's never been given the credit that he deserves. 1.00

01:19:37.000 He's a monster. 1.00

01:19:38.000 Monster. 0.99

01:19:39.000 Fights at two different weights. 0.97

01:19:40.000 Yeah, ridiculous power.

01:19:41.000 And he had Dan hurt. 0.87

01:19:42.000 And Dan had him hurt.

01:19:44.000 Dan hurt him first.

01:19:45.000 Hector came back, hurt Dan. 0.99

01:19:47.000 Dan recovered and knocked him out with a crazy fucking elbow. 0.99

01:19:51.000 And then another shot once he was basically out from that back elbow. 0.99

01:19:56.000 Right.

01:19:56.000 But it shows that Dan can still shut the lights out on a guy in his prime who's a destroyer who's never been knocked out before in the Octagon.

01:20:04.000 I fully agree.

01:20:05.000 I fully agree.

01:20:05.000 And Hector's one of those guys, regardless of what happens to him, and Hector stubbed his toe a few times, you want to see Hector fight.

01:20:11.000 Hector's got the whole thing.

01:20:12.000 He's going to do the promos beforehand, he's going to mean it, he's going to hate that opponent, it's real, he's going to look like a million bucks, and he's going to come out fighting.

01:20:19.000 Whatever happens after that happens, but he's coming to fight.

01:20:21.000 Well, he went out on his shield.

01:20:23.000 And when you look at this fight between Bisping and Henderson, that's the most exciting fight.

01:20:28.000 I mean, that's why I like the fact that the UFC made it.

01:20:30.000 That's the fight that I wanted to see.

01:20:32.000 I put it on my Instagram.

01:20:33.000 I'm like, come on.

01:20:33.000 Yes, please.

01:20:34.000 Please.

01:20:35.000 I'm like, let's make it happen.

01:20:35.000 Let's do it.

01:20:36.000 Yeah, that's the fight.

01:20:37.000 And if Dan goes out, Dan came to my, his fight was on a Saturday.

01:20:41.000 He came to my show at the Ice House in Pasadena on Wednesday.

01:20:44.000 He said he had been drunk since Saturday.

01:20:49.000 That sounds reasonable.

01:20:50.000 It's Vegas.

01:20:52.000 He was so happy.

01:20:53.000 And I'm like, well, what do you think?

01:20:54.000 Is it possible?

01:20:55.000 And he's like, we're trying.

01:20:56.000 We're trying to make that happen.

01:20:57.000 Like the Bisping fight, I'm like, that is the fight to make.

01:21:00.000 And I go, would you retire if you went out with that fight?

01:21:03.000 He goes, yeah.

01:21:04.000 He goes, that's the only fight I want right now.

01:21:06.000 He goes, I don't even really want to fight anybody else.

01:21:08.000 I want to fight him, and then I think I'm done.

01:21:10.000 Now, what about when George St. Pierre was saying he would come back and he wanted Bisping?

01:21:14.000 And if George comes to the table and says, I'll come back, but only if, well, then it's only if.

01:21:18.000 You're doing that.

01:21:19.000 That's a big fight, if he comes back and fights Bisping.

01:21:22.000 I don't know if it's a bigger fight than Henderson.

01:21:25.000 I agree that it doesn't sell more, but I'm saying if that's what you've got to do to get George back to the table, I think...

01:21:30.000 I think you do it, don't you?

01:21:31.000 If you're Dana, don't you do it?

01:21:32.000 I don't think that's what you need to do.

01:21:34.000 I think he's just saying that because it's an attractive option.

01:21:37.000 Because, you know, Bisping has the title.

01:21:39.000 It's an interesting fight.

01:21:40.000 He wouldn't have to cut weight.

01:21:41.000 I mean, literally, he's walking around at 186. Bisping's a much larger guy than him.

01:21:45.000 Much larger.

01:21:46.000 You think that Dana... 1.00

01:21:48.000 Told George no?

01:21:49.000 No.

01:21:49.000 I don't want to do that match?

01:21:50.000 No, I just think they probably didn't really have it worked out.

01:21:54.000 They were probably discussing it, trying to figure out what the details would be.

01:21:57.000 But if you look at the most attractive fight to Bisping, I would think the Henderson fight would be.

01:22:02.000 Because Dan doesn't have much time left.

01:22:03.000 If he misses him this time around, he might not ever be able to fight him again.

01:22:06.000 Right.

01:22:07.000 Bisping legitimately wants to get revenge.

01:22:09.000 And he's the world champion now.

01:22:12.000 It's his call.

01:22:12.000 So kudos to him for taking this fight.

01:22:15.000 For saying, you know what, man?

01:22:16.000 This guy just blew...

01:22:17.000 It's not like he called him out right after he just got knocked out in the first round by Vitor.

01:22:22.000 No, he called him out after he just destroyed Hector Lombard. 0.96

01:22:25.000 And, like, that was one of the greatest knockouts in the fucking history of the sport. 0.98

01:22:30.000 I mean, when that happened, because when you consider all that was at stake, when you consider that Dan was 45 years old, that people thought he was in the twilight of his career, that he's stepping in there to fight Hector Lombard was just a fucking monster in his prime. 0.98

01:22:44.000 Like, that was a great knockout. 0.93

01:22:46.000 An all-time great result.

01:22:48.000 So, kudos to Bisping.

01:22:50.000 Kudos to Bisping for wanting that fight now.

01:22:52.000 And the way Bisping needs to handle it, when you factor Jacare in, who's going, hey, wait a minute.

01:22:58.000 I'd have beaten you.

01:22:59.000 I got the skills to beat you.

01:23:00.000 I'm the No.

01:23:01.000 1 contender.

01:23:02.000 Here's how Bisping will handle it.

01:23:03.000 No, you're not.

01:23:04.000 Wait your turn.

01:23:05.000 That's how they'll handle it.

01:23:06.000 The way to shut those guys down, Joe, is to go back to the truth.

01:23:09.000 The truth's your friend.

01:23:10.000 Listen, Jacare, you're more dangerous. 0.60

01:23:12.000 You're more likely to beat me, and I'm not looking to get beat, so I'm going to go deal with this guy. 0.88

01:23:17.000 It shuts everything up.

01:23:19.000 Bisping won't do it.

01:23:19.000 Everybody likes to go, well, wait your turn, and this and that.

01:23:21.000 You're not as good as you think you are.

01:23:22.000 Go fight your own America, whatever it is. 0.63

01:23:24.000 Steer right into it.

01:23:25.000 Yeah, man, you're way more likely.

01:23:27.000 Here's what I want to do.

01:23:28.000 I want to fight the easiest guy in the biggest stadium for the largest paycheck, and that's what I'm going to politic to do.

01:23:33.000 So you do your thing, and I'm going to do mine.

01:23:35.000 Well, the Jacare argument is not very good for Jacare because he lost the fight with Yoel Romero.

01:23:40.000 I, for some reason, had an erroneous...

01:23:42.000 But Yoel popped.

01:23:42.000 Yeah.

01:23:42.000 I had an erroneous memory of Jacare winning the decision, and I don't know why.

01:23:47.000 Maybe it's because of him testing positive, but it was a very close fight, too.

01:23:50.000 I remember not knowing after it was over.

01:23:52.000 I mean, I remember Yoel blasted him and had him really badly hurt, but I felt like Jacare came back a bit, and it was a very close fight towards the end.

01:24:00.000 It was very tight.

01:24:01.000 I agree with the decision.

01:24:02.000 But Yoel popped.

01:24:02.000 Uh-huh.

01:24:03.000 But I concede it was tight.

01:24:04.000 And Jacare's...

01:24:05.000 He's fantastic.

01:24:06.000 Those do well.

01:24:06.000 They're both fantastic.

01:24:07.000 Yeah, they really are.

01:24:08.000 And when he lost that fight, though, it's real hard to lose a fight.

01:24:15.000 Even if a guy had popped for a tainted supplement, they're only giving him a six-month suspension.

01:24:20.000 It's real hard to make an argument that you deserve the next shot at the title.

01:24:23.000 I think that actually solidifies Dan's position.

01:24:26.000 Sure.

01:24:26.000 I agree with you.

01:24:27.000 Can I switch gears?

01:24:28.000 Yeah.

01:24:28.000 I've got to ask you about something.

01:24:29.000 Fuck yeah. 1.00

01:24:29.000 Ask me about anything. 1.00

01:24:30.000 Joey Diaz.

01:24:31.000 Tell me everything.

01:24:32.000 How did you meet Joey Diaz?

01:24:33.000 Because then I want you to ask me this.

01:24:35.000 I want you to ask me what my experience with Joey.

01:24:38.000 But how did you meet him?

01:24:40.000 How did he come into the fold?

01:24:41.000 I met Joey Diaz in the late 90s at the Comedy Store.

01:24:45.000 I think I met him in like 96 or 97, something like that.

01:24:49.000 Right when Joey moved to LA. We just started hanging around the Comedy Store.

01:24:53.000 We became friends.

01:24:54.000 And then I started taking him on the road with me.

01:24:57.000 Like the late 90s.

01:24:58.000 We've been best friends forever.

01:25:00.000 So I know of Joey.

01:25:03.000 I don't know Joey.

01:25:04.000 I've never met him.

01:25:05.000 You've never met Joey?

01:25:06.000 Never.

01:25:06.000 I call him up right now.

01:25:07.000 TV and the whole bit.

01:25:09.000 I know him from you and I see your podcast and all that.

01:25:12.000 And he's in the circles.

01:25:13.000 He does some jujitsu.

01:25:14.000 He's funnier than hell.

01:25:15.000 And he's a gangster, so I like him, but I don't know anything about him.

01:25:18.000 So he comes on my podcast.

01:25:20.000 Now, he has a podcast, so of course my opening line to him is, hey, how'd you get into podcasting?

01:25:24.000 Right, I'm going to put, here's your plug for your podcast, and we're going to go on and talk about my agenda.

01:25:29.000 So I say, Joe, I say to him, Joey, how'd you get into podcasting?

01:25:34.000 And his response, you know, Chael Sonnen, he wouldn't call me Chael.

01:25:37.000 It was always, you know what, Chael Sonnen?

01:25:39.000 He still calls me Joe Rogan. 0.97

01:25:41.000 I mugged a hooker down in New Jersey and set her wig on fire. 1.00

01:25:47.000 Okay, there's two moving parts here. 0.92

01:25:49.000 First off, I don't know how that answers my question.

01:25:53.000 But now I need to know the story here.

01:25:55.000 So he ties it all together with, he went on something, something he got an appearance. 0.80

01:26:00.000 He told the story of mugging a hooker in New Jersey and setting her wig on fire.

01:26:05.000 And all of a sudden, he blew up overnight, and he goes, yeah, I realize people like those stories.

01:26:08.000 I never knew that I had stories.

01:26:10.000 From the part of the country I'm in and the neighborhood I grew up in, I thought everybody had these stories. 0.79

01:26:13.000 He's like, chill, son, and I thought I'd tell you I mug a hooker and light a wig on fire. 0.99

01:26:17.000 You go, yeah, well, I mug 10 hookers and light 10 wigs on fire. 1.00

01:26:20.000 He's like, I didn't know I had stories. 0.99

01:26:22.000 And then it just goes from there.

01:26:23.000 And he starts telling me about...

01:26:25.000 So he ends up doing two years or 18 months.

01:26:28.000 And I said, well, what kind of jam did you get in there?

01:26:30.000 And he said, well, I was actually, I was doing the cops job for him.

01:26:33.000 You know, the cops don't want drugs on the streets.

01:26:35.000 I went and took two kilos off the streets for him.

01:26:38.000 This is how he presents it to me.

01:26:40.000 He goes, yeah, you know, the two kilos wasn't as big of a deal.

01:26:43.000 Oh, I robbed two kilos.

01:26:46.000 He goes, and you know what else, Chael Sonnen?

01:26:48.000 I just happen to have a machine gun.

01:26:51.000 And I go, well, I can see where that happened.

01:26:52.000 He goes, yeah, sometimes you just back into a machine gun.

01:26:54.000 I had a machine gun with me.

01:26:56.000 And he goes, but it's funny.

01:26:57.000 I wasn't in trouble for the gun.

01:26:58.000 I really wasn't in that much trouble for the drugs.

01:27:01.000 What they were upset about was the kidnapping.

01:27:03.000 I'm going, okay, what happened?

01:27:05.000 This is my intro to the gun.

01:27:07.000 I'm like, what in the hell is this story?

01:27:09.000 You probably know the story, but I didn't.

01:27:11.000 So he tells me the whole story and he says, yeah, but you know, kidnapping's kind of a weird charge because when you and Vandalay got in that scuffle in The Ultimate Fighter, if I come and grab you and I take you into the next room just to cool you down, taking you into a room against your, that's kidnapping.

01:27:24.000 So I think like they got him on a technicality jam like what they're doing with Frank Mir or some of these guys we're talking about.

01:27:29.000 And I say, oh, okay, is that what happened?

01:27:31.000 And he goes, no, I duct taped the guy.

01:27:33.000 He was in my trunk, and then I held him in the house for a week before I let him go.

01:27:36.000 I'm like, well, then why did you tell me?

01:27:38.000 Why did you bring up the initial example of taking me next door and cooling me down?

01:27:43.000 What'd that have to do?

01:27:44.000 I still don't know. 0.99

01:27:46.000 Because he's crazy. 0.98

01:27:47.000 It's funnier than hell! 0.93

01:27:49.000 See, I try to do more of a Joe Rogan experience.

01:27:53.000 You're my idol.

01:27:54.000 I try to do my show the way you do yours, but I'm not there yet.

01:27:57.000 It takes a while to build that audience.

01:27:58.000 So I've got to stick on MMA and pro wrestling.

01:28:02.000 But I don't want that.

01:28:03.000 I want to just talk.

01:28:04.000 Well, you could just talk.

01:28:05.000 You definitely could just talk.

01:28:06.000 Well, as I bring these guys in, I'm trying to do a little more of that.

01:28:08.000 I go to TMZ. I see the local stuff.

01:28:10.000 I try to ask them pop culture questions.

01:28:12.000 So I dip my toe in politics with Joey.

01:28:15.000 Obama had just made this new rule of going to any bathroom you want.

01:28:18.000 So I asked Joey about that, and he goes, chill, son, and I've been taking a dump in the woman's bathroom since I'm five years old. 0.99

01:28:24.000 And believe me, I have dealt with the consequences.

01:28:30.000 But he wasn't kidding.

01:28:32.000 Joe, that's what's so funny, man.

01:28:34.000 It's a shoot.

01:28:35.000 He's being real, and he tells me.

01:28:37.000 It's a shoot.

01:28:38.000 He is pro wrestling.

01:28:38.000 Yeah, he goes, well, my mom used to own a restaurant, so, you know, I kind of had, I cleaned the bag, then I'd sit down in the women's.

01:28:44.000 He goes, you know what happens if you drop your Coke on a men's bathroom floor?

01:28:47.000 No, I don't know, Joe.

01:28:48.000 I don't do Coke.

01:28:49.000 What?

01:28:50.000 Like, I've tested positive for everything in the world, but Coke wasn't one of them.

01:28:54.000 He says, you leave it there.

01:28:55.000 You know what happens if I drop my Coke on a women's bathroom floor? 1.00

01:28:58.000 You get down and lick it up.

01:29:00.000 Oh! 0.60

01:29:00.000 That's what he says, but he's trying to say the women's room's cleaner, he's been using them since he's five years old, and he said, and I have dealt with the consequences, which I knew! 0.60

01:29:08.000 I want the answer to what those were, it's just, it's like, there's too many other things to talk to this guy about.

01:29:13.000 I gotta get back to the hooker with the wig that he mugged. 0.99

01:29:15.000 I've known Joey for 20 years, and he's never stopped running out of stories.

01:29:24.000 We're good to go.

01:29:53.000 A movie.

01:29:54.000 Right.

01:29:54.000 Not a movie, like an epic adventure series of novels.

01:29:59.000 Like, his life is insane.

01:30:00.000 Well, to qualify, so he tells this story about robbing this guy with a machine gun that he just happened to have, taking the two kilos off the street, doing the cop's job for him, but then having the guy in his trunk duct taped before he moved him to the house, before he let him go.

01:30:13.000 He had that guy on his podcast.

01:30:14.000 Yes.

01:30:15.000 He found him on social media, tried to friend him or like him or whatever you call it on Facebook.

01:30:19.000 I'm a Twitter guy, but this was Facebook.

01:30:20.000 Guy ignored him for about two years and finally responded.

01:30:24.000 Now Joey's had him on his podcast.

01:30:25.000 He says we catch up about once a month.

01:30:27.000 And he goes, yeah, the guy was good people.

01:30:28.000 He never turned me in.

01:30:29.000 He said it was my partner in the whole thing.

01:30:31.000 The partner tried to double-cross me.

01:30:33.000 We stole the Coke.

01:30:34.000 Then he was going to steal it from me, but I knew what time it was.

01:30:36.000 Now that's an expression I've never heard before, but I plan to take with me through my next years in life.

01:30:44.000 I knew what time it was.

01:30:46.000 I just thought that was a great line.

01:30:47.000 The whole thing was great.

01:30:48.000 I asked him about the gorilla.

01:30:49.000 The gorilla had just got shot where they killed him at the zoo.

01:30:52.000 And he says, you know what, Chael Center, they don't give us the good gorillas. 1.00

01:30:55.000 I'm down at the zoo last week.

01:30:56.000 The gorillas, they got their hair messed up. 1.00

01:30:58.000 They don't eat bananas.

01:30:59.000 They want chicken cutlets. 1.00

01:31:01.000 Shoot the effing gorilla! 1.00

01:31:04.000 And it's like, you had no idea I was going to ask you that. 0.99

01:31:07.000 That was so spontaneously funny, you know, that news had just broken.

01:31:10.000 Right then, I was like, this is the guy.

01:31:13.000 This is a funny guy.

01:31:14.000 No, he's unbelievable.

01:31:15.000 He's the funniest person I've ever met in my life.

01:31:17.000 He's the funniest comedian I've ever seen in my life.

01:31:20.000 Well, I've never seen him live.

01:31:21.000 You've got to see him live.

01:31:22.000 How long are you in town for?

01:31:24.000 I'm here till tomorrow.

01:31:25.000 I'm going to do Fighter and the Kid.

01:31:26.000 I got to see Adam Hunter last night live.

01:31:29.000 And he lit it up.

01:31:30.000 Adam Hunter.

01:31:30.000 Adam's very funny.

01:31:31.000 He was very funny.

01:31:32.000 He's very good.

01:31:33.000 He's a really good writer, too.

01:31:34.000 He worked the whole crowd in.

01:31:35.000 He made it a thing, and he sold the venue out as this real intimate atmosphere at Stratosphere.

01:31:40.000 I would guess 100 seats.

01:31:41.000 Very small, but it was packed.

01:31:43.000 That's perfect.

01:31:44.000 Went right around the room.

01:31:45.000 I mean, there's nothing off limits.

01:31:47.000 Women's jokes, gay jokes, race jokes, everything.

01:31:50.000 And it was awesome.

01:31:51.000 And possibly as funny as like, he was going around to couples.

01:31:54.000 Hey, how'd you guys meet?

01:31:55.000 You know, where'd you guys meet?

01:31:56.000 Did you meet at the UFC? You guys fight?

01:31:58.000 He's doing the whole thing.

01:31:59.000 There's a nerdy couple.

01:32:00.000 He goes, where'd you guys meet?

01:32:01.000 Lincecrafters?

01:32:02.000 Right, see, its brilliance is in its simplicity.

01:32:07.000 You can use that line in school and not even get a detention.

01:32:09.000 I mean, that's a powerful and funny line, and the teacher can't even send you to the office for it.

01:32:14.000 Yeah, it's not mean.

01:32:15.000 Right, it's not mean, it's just funny.

01:32:17.000 No, he's a funny dude.

01:32:18.000 I got in trouble for quoting one of his jokes during a Fox broadcast, like a Fox Sports 1. Who was the fighter that he was telling a joke about?

01:32:31.000 He said he comes from behind more than Lance Bass?

01:32:33.000 Yes!

01:32:34.000 Who was it, though?

01:32:35.000 I can't remember, but that was a funny line. 0.98

01:32:38.000 It's fucking hilarious. 0.95

01:32:39.000 You used it on a pay-per-view, though, or something, didn't you? 0.97

01:32:42.000 I think it was on FS1. That was part of the problem.

01:32:45.000 Okay.

01:32:46.000 It works.

01:32:47.000 Martin Kampman?

01:32:47.000 Yeah, it was Martin Kampman.

01:32:49.000 And I just wanted to credit him because it made me laugh so hard.

01:32:52.000 That's so funny.

01:32:53.000 As my friend Adam Hunter.

01:32:54.000 So I kind of got away with it because it wasn't my joke.

01:32:57.000 Yeah.

01:32:57.000 Because if I had said it, I don't know.

01:33:00.000 Well, here, if we're playing that game, I can't tell one.

01:33:02.000 But if I quote him, maybe I can.

01:33:04.000 He sends me a text after the Orlando shooting.

01:33:06.000 The very next day, he says, hey, man, let me know you're okay.

01:33:08.000 I heard there was a shooting at a gay club.

01:33:09.000 I just want to check on you.

01:33:11.000 It's like, no, you gotta do that in private, unless you're a comedian.

01:33:14.000 Now, comedians can do anything they want.

01:33:16.000 Yeah, just loopholes.

01:33:17.000 It was hilarious.

01:33:18.000 I'm just reading it going, that's funny.

01:33:20.000 I wonder how many other people you sent that to, but I'm the right mark for that, because that's funny.

01:33:24.000 That's funny.

01:33:25.000 It is funny.

01:33:26.000 Well, that's a weird position.

01:33:27.000 And I believe in the rule, Joe.

01:33:29.000 If it's funny, then you can do it.

01:33:30.000 Yes.

01:33:31.000 Yes.

01:33:31.000 Yeah.

01:33:32.000 Well, funny is subjective, right?

01:33:34.000 Like, what's funny to you?

01:33:35.000 Other people might get offended.

01:33:36.000 And that's one of the things that people who love to be recreationally outraged, that's what they do.

01:33:41.000 They'll find a joke and they'll say, that's not funny to me.

01:33:43.000 It's horribly offensive and it's, you know, degrading and blah, blah, blah.

01:33:47.000 And they'll come up with a bunch of reasons why it shouldn't be funny.

01:33:50.000 But if there's someone out there that's howling at the same time you're protesting, the other person's howling laughing, well, then it did its job.

01:33:57.000 It's tricky for me.

01:33:58.000 You sent out a great tweet.

01:33:59.000 It might have been as recently as yesterday, but it was a two-part.

01:34:03.000 The first part said, this country has a mental health problem disguised as a gun problem, and this country has a tyranny problem disguised as a security problem. 0.89

01:34:15.000 And it went crazy.

01:34:16.000 Twitter lit it up, and when I'm reading that, I'm going, okay, Joe's dipping in something here.

01:34:20.000 Joe doesn't usually dip in, but But he's right.

01:34:23.000 There is no way to say that that statement's not right.

01:34:26.000 And it wasn't meant to be funny.

01:34:27.000 That was a very true, and I thought a powerful statement by you.

01:34:30.000 Thank you.

01:34:31.000 It's actually a couple years old.

01:34:32.000 It's just going around a lot.

01:34:35.000 People are retweeting it a lot.

01:34:36.000 Okay, it came back.

01:34:37.000 But it's...

01:34:39.000 There's no way you can't call what happened in Orlando a mental health problem.

01:34:43.000 There's plenty of guns.

01:34:44.000 There are more guns than there are human beings in this country.

01:34:47.000 And if there was a gun problem the way a lot of people like to pretend there's a gun problem, or the way they like to, I shouldn't say pretend, because obviously there's an issue, the way they like to categorize it, there would be people shooting people en masse all day long, every day.

01:35:01.000 It would be impossible to go out of the house without looking for gunfire.

01:35:04.000 That's not the case.

01:35:05.000 When you think about how many people there are and how many guns there are, And how statistically rare it is that these things happen.

01:35:14.000 It shows you, and then you factor in how many of these people are on anti-depressants, how many of these people are being weaned off of anti-depressants, those numbers are terrifying.

01:35:24.000 Because when you look at the correlation, you know, correlation does not equal causation, there's a weird argument, but it's an undeniable factor that has to be at least debated and discussed. 0.91

01:35:37.000 There are so many fucking people in this country on disassociating meds, on things that allow you to get away with... 0.99

01:35:45.000 You can justify and do and act in horrific ways and not exactly know what the fuck you're doing. 1.00

01:35:53.000 That is one of the problems that's associated with certain antidepressants. 0.98

01:35:58.000 And to not connect those two is crazy.

01:36:01.000 And even if they're not medicated, forget about the medication, because the medication is one issue. 0.99

01:36:05.000 The type of person that can go into a fucking school and shoot a bunch of kids, if you don't think that's a mental illness issue, oh, it's only a gun issue. 1.00

01:36:13.000 That's fucking crazy. 1.00

01:36:14.000 It's not a gun issue. 1.00

01:36:15.000 That's like calling 9-11 a plane issue.

01:36:18.000 It's not.

01:36:19.000 It's not a gun issue.

01:36:20.000 The gun factor is real.

01:36:22.000 There is a problem if psycho people and people with criminal records or people that are mentally disturbed can buy guns.

01:36:28.000 Yes, that's a problem.

01:36:29.000 You know what else is a problem? 0.99

01:36:30.000 The fact that I can get a fucking... 0.99

01:36:32.000 I can get a gun and I don't even know how to use it. 0.99

01:36:35.000 That's a problem.

01:36:36.000 You have to have a license to drive a car.

01:36:38.000 Someone has to sit with you.

01:36:40.000 You have to take these turns.

01:36:41.000 You have to turn right here.

01:36:42.000 You have to fully stop at the stop sign.

01:36:44.000 You have to do all these things and if you don't do it, you don't get your driver's license.

01:36:48.000 All you have to do is not be a criminal, and you get a gun. 0.99

01:36:50.000 That is fucking crazy. 0.99

01:36:52.000 And at any age, too, and that's relevant. 0.99

01:36:54.000 My nephew's eight years old.

01:36:57.000 Last Christmas, he got a gun.

01:36:59.000 And we live in the country.

01:37:00.000 That's normal.

01:37:01.000 Kids have guns by the time they're eight years old.

01:37:03.000 At three, four years old, they're starting with BB guns, they advance to a pellet, you get a shotgun.

01:37:06.000 Some parts of the world go, man, that's insane you gave a kid a gun.

01:37:09.000 Well, we live out in the country.

01:37:10.000 Yes, the kid has the gun.

01:37:11.000 The other side of it, though, there is no crimes where I come from done with a gun.

01:37:15.000 Whether a guy's doing a simple robbery, and I don't mean to dismiss that, but in the eyes of murder, it is.

01:37:19.000 Never.

01:37:20.000 And one of the reasons that we maintain is when you have guns and you grow up with guns, you learn the dangers of guns.

01:37:26.000 You never play with those things.

01:37:28.000 You never point those things at anybody.

01:37:29.000 When you're out shooting watermelons and pop cans or whatever it may be, you learn real fast.

01:37:34.000 This is why I don't.

01:37:36.000 Pull a gun.

01:37:37.000 This is why I don't do these things.

01:37:38.000 We don't know anything about the things like the cities in New York and all these people that are trying to take the guns away.

01:37:43.000 We don't know anything about that out in the country.

01:37:45.000 Never.

01:37:45.000 We don't have any gun problems and everybody's got them.

01:37:48.000 Well, don't you also think that living in a place like the country where everybody does have guns, that is a very different environment than living in a city.

01:37:57.000 If everybody had guns in the city, you have so much more tension going on.

01:38:02.000 It's so much different.

01:38:03.000 The environment's different.

01:38:05.000 I don't necessarily think it would be great if New York City had as many guns per capita as Oregon did.

01:38:11.000 Sure.

01:38:11.000 Sure, and your original point on this is the only thing that stops you from getting a gun is having a felony.

01:38:17.000 It's like, well, that makes sense and nobody's disputing that, but there's got to be a few more things.

01:38:22.000 To your point, we need to find out if you're medicated.

01:38:24.000 A simple drug test, this is pretty quick.

01:38:26.000 You know, the NRA is real big that a guy gets a gun today because he might need a...

01:38:30.000 No, the guy's got a plan ahead.

01:38:31.000 It's just like a driver's license.

01:38:32.000 Maybe the 16-year-old has a date on Saturday, but if he doesn't have the license, then he's just going to have to postpone the date.

01:38:37.000 Because there needs to be more things than just simply going, you know, let me run your fingerprints and if something comes back.

01:38:43.000 To your point, are you on drugs?

01:38:44.000 Are you on medication?

01:38:45.000 How about a train of thought?

01:38:46.000 I've never heard anybody make that argument before, but I love that analogy.

01:38:49.000 You have to get a license for a car.

01:38:50.000 It's a pretty simple process, but you have to do it.

01:38:52.000 Well, you should have to do that with a gun, too, because people need to know why you don't use guns.

01:38:57.000 Yeah, 100%.

01:38:57.000 I mean, you have to get a hunter safety certificate if you want to hunt and if you want to use the gun.

01:39:03.000 And, you know, it's really, it's very detailed.

01:39:06.000 In most states, you have to have one.

01:39:08.000 In many states, at least.

01:39:09.000 Actually, I don't even think that you have to have it in California.

01:39:11.000 But you, which is weird, because California is like one of the most restrictive states when it comes to firearms. 0.98

01:39:17.000 But you have to go through this long, difficult course, and you have to pass tests, and you have to actually know what the fuck you're doing. 0.99

01:39:23.000 Right.

01:39:23.000 And if you don't, you don't get your hunter safety certificate.

01:39:25.000 And then you can't hunt.

01:39:27.000 You can't get a license, right?

01:39:28.000 Yeah, you can't get a license.

01:39:29.000 And I think that...

01:39:30.000 What the NRA does is they take a hard stance on the side of promoting guns, and they don't move.

01:39:38.000 Not only do they not budge, they almost are unreasonable in their position.

01:39:43.000 But I feel like that is because the left is so unreasonable.

01:39:48.000 When anything goes on, they immediately want to ban guns and take guns away.

01:39:53.000 It's not feasible.

01:39:56.000 At this stage, people are like, whoa, look what they did in Australia.

01:39:59.000 Australia's 20 million people.

01:40:00.000 It's the size of the continental United States.

01:40:02.000 To equate Australia with the United States is insane.

01:40:05.000 There's just way too many people here.

01:40:07.000 It's a completely different...

01:40:08.000 And by the way, they didn't ban guns in Australia.

01:40:10.000 People hunt with guns.

01:40:11.000 You can get guns.

01:40:12.000 You can register guns.

01:40:13.000 You get them.

01:40:13.000 You belong to part of hunting clubs like they do in Europe.

01:40:17.000 You keep them stored in lockers.

01:40:19.000 It's not a full-on ban on firearms.

01:40:22.000 It's just much more restrictive.

01:40:23.000 The NRA is trying to stop restrictions.

01:40:25.000 And the reason why they're trying to stop restrictions is because when anything goes on television, it's very disingenuous. 0.99

01:40:33.000 For someone to go on television after some sort of a massacre and not bring up all the factors, not bring up psych meds, not bring up mental health, not talk about the correlation between raising kids in abusive households and having children grow up with these horrible lives and then they go on and become fucking psychopaths. 0.99

01:40:53.000 Sure. 0.98

01:40:53.000 There's a correlation there. 0.98

01:40:56.000 It's not simply whether or not the kid had the tool to do the job. 0.99

01:40:59.000 It's like, why the fuck did they want to do that in the first place? 0.62

01:41:02.000 And then you find out so many of these cases, like this guy in Orlando, the FBI had him on a watch list just a couple of years ago. 0.98

01:41:08.000 Twice! 0.99

01:41:08.000 Yeah, I mean, come on, man. 0.99

01:41:10.000 That fucking kid in Colorado that killed everybody at the movie theater, they knew that guy was out of his fucking mind. 1.00

01:41:14.000 He had talked about killing a bunch of people. 1.00

01:41:16.000 And there's a lot of those cases where they get ignored.

01:41:20.000 And that's a giant issue.

01:41:21.000 And I don't know how to solve that issue.

01:41:24.000 Because what do you do? 0.88

01:41:25.000 When someone comes along and says, hey, I'm thinking about going into a movie theater and killing a bunch of people. 0.96

01:41:29.000 I'm just kidding. 0.84

01:41:30.000 What do you do?

01:41:32.000 I'm going to go by your first statement and lock you up forever?

01:41:35.000 I don't know.

01:41:36.000 I don't know what to do there.

01:41:37.000 And I think there's a gigantic argument when it comes to gun violence in this country.

01:41:42.000 But there's a gigantic argument when it comes to mental illness.

01:41:45.000 And we're pushing that one aside.

01:41:46.000 Yeah, and I think they just do it at the wrong time.

01:41:48.000 You know, they get emotions involved.

01:41:50.000 JFK made a statement back when he was president, never let a good crisis go to waste.

01:41:54.000 So it is believed by politicians when you have a crisis, that's when you go on the attack, but that's when emotions are the highest.

01:41:59.000 I disagree with this statement.

01:42:01.000 It's a good time to get your agenda out there, but you're just pissing people off and you're entrenching them in their own views.

01:42:06.000 A great time to bring up the gun argument.

01:42:08.000 I'm pro-gun, but I do understand.

01:42:10.000 Look, there's some room to give here.

01:42:11.000 I love what you said about a license.

01:42:13.000 You relate that to driving a car.

01:42:15.000 It makes perfect sense.

01:42:16.000 Bring it when emotions are a little bit less.

01:42:18.000 Come forward and go, hey, listen, let's make sure we do this.

01:42:20.000 And if you're worried about your safety, kind of get a little bit proactive here.

01:42:23.000 Start the process so you can have a gun if that's what you want to do.

01:42:26.000 But...

01:42:27.000 I think that they're wrong following JFK's model that he said in 1964. I think here in 2016, let emotions die down a little bit.

01:42:35.000 Let people not be pissed on one side or the other, worried about protecting themselves and their family or worried that something's going to happen to themselves and their family.

01:42:41.000 You get good people with really different views here.

01:42:44.000 I think that they're misplacing JFK's philosophy, in my opinion, in 2016. Let things die down a little bit and then bring it up.

01:42:51.000 Yeah, and there's also this weird adherence, concrete adherence to the Bill of Rights and the Second Amendment.

01:43:00.000 I mean, yeah, I think that people should...

01:43:02.000 Look, I don't think...

01:43:03.000 If there's only three of us in this world, all right?

01:43:05.000 You, me, and Jamie.

01:43:06.000 We're the only ones. 1.00

01:43:07.000 If Jamie came along and said, nobody could have guns, I think we would get together and go, fuck that guy. 0.99

01:43:11.000 Who's this guy to tell us what we can and can't do? 0.99

01:43:14.000 That same thought process could be applied to 300 million people.

01:43:19.000 I don't agree that a grown human being should be able to tell another grown human being what they can and can't do.

01:43:26.000 As long as it's not...

01:43:27.000 Like, if you say, hey Joe, I'm thinking about starting a fucking nuclear power plant in your backyard, and I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing, but if I don't, we're gonna have to move to the middle of the ocean. 0.72

01:43:35.000 Right. 0.94

01:43:36.000 Well then we got a problem.

01:43:37.000 Sure.

01:43:37.000 And you could sort of apply that logic to guns.

01:43:40.000 You say, well, you know, if you're a fucking gun nut and you like to shoot guns off in your backyard and, you know, you might ricochet one and fucking shoot my dog or something, then it becomes a safety issue and a health issue, but... 0.98

01:43:52.000 It's hard to justify using the words of people that lived in the fucking 1700s when it comes to today, with the kind of guns that we have, with the kind of society that we have, with the kind of... 0.99

01:44:08.000 Across the board, our legal system, our system of government, representative government, all that stuff is fucking bananas in the world of 2016. Representative government has no place in a world where everyone has social media, where everyone can be represented instantaneously. 0.91

01:44:26.000 You don't have to get on a fucking horse and take a parchment across the country to hand it to some dude in a powdered wig. 0.99

01:44:32.000 That's old. 0.99

01:44:33.000 We don't need that anymore.

01:44:35.000 So when you start talking about things that are in the Bill of Rights, It's the things that are in the Constitution. 0.99

01:44:39.000 Gee, you think it's time to update that fucking ancient piece of shit? 1.00

01:44:42.000 Thank you. 1.00

01:44:43.000 I mean, it was great.

01:44:44.000 They had amazing insight.

01:44:46.000 They were brilliant people.

01:44:47.000 We owe them everything.

01:44:48.000 This experiment of self-government that the United States of America was founded on is a fantastic invention, and it's one of the reasons why so much art and creativity and innovation and freedom come from this part of the world. 0.93

01:45:01.000 But to rely on the exact words written with a fucking feather Back when people were taking wooden boats across the ocean hoping they wouldn't get eaten by Indians when they landed here. 0.95

01:45:13.000 Native Americans. 0.99

01:45:14.000 Sorry. 0.99

01:45:16.000 I just think it's ridiculous. 0.98

01:45:17.000 Is Indian bad? 1.00

01:45:18.000 You're not supposed to say Indian anymore?

01:45:18.000 I'm not supposed to say that.

01:45:19.000 Really?

01:45:20.000 No. 0.65

01:45:20.000 So it's right up there with retard and... 0.65

01:45:22.000 Could you say homo? 1.00

01:45:23.000 I think you'd still say homo. 1.00

01:45:24.000 Homo sapien.

01:45:25.000 I did not know that.

01:45:26.000 I did not know that.

01:45:27.000 I know politicians try to be correct all the time and say African-American, but that term is wrong.

01:45:31.000 It's black. 0.53

01:45:32.000 Yes.

01:45:32.000 Not all blacks are African.

01:45:33.000 Yeah, there's a lot of people from Haiti.

01:45:35.000 Yeah, to your point, though, people have this absolute fetish for the Constitution, no matter how many times we've amended it over the years.

01:45:41.000 And it extends to the Bill of Rights, too.

01:45:43.000 And they need to take – you bring up a feather, but – And that's accurate.

01:45:47.000 They signed it with a feather, but they were also married to their cousin and they bathed once a week.

01:45:50.000 And they had slaves.

01:45:51.000 There you go.

01:45:52.000 And it's like, hey guys, things changed.

01:45:54.000 Now these guys did their level best at that time, but they couldn't see the world in perpetuity.

01:46:00.000 And the other side of it is, no matter how many times we've amended the Constitution, you guys still have a fetish that this was like the Gospel.

01:46:06.000 This wasn't touched by the hand of God.

01:46:08.000 This was written by knuckleheads with 8th grade educations.

01:46:11.000 Yeah, and the thing about the Bill of Rights, the reason why they cling to that Second Amendment is because it does state that you have the right to bear arms.

01:46:19.000 So they got it.

01:46:20.000 It's written down.

01:46:21.000 It's ours.

01:46:22.000 We got it.

01:46:23.000 And people also love the basis behind it.

01:46:25.000 It wasn't about hunter and gather like some people say.

01:46:27.000 It was about, look, if our government has guns, then we have guns so that we can always overtake our government should we need to.

01:46:34.000 In the world of tanks and aircraft and everything, of course that doesn't hold, but that's the part that people like.

01:46:39.000 They don't want to give their government the power that the people don't have.

01:46:42.000 That is a wonderful philosophy, but it's kind of outgrown itself. 0.99

01:46:45.000 It has outgrown itself in the United States of America in 2016, but if the shit hits the fan, and it absolutely could. 0.98

01:46:52.000 We are one natural disaster away from chaos at all times, and that is something that has happened all throughout human history. 0.98

01:47:00.000 There have been gigantic Asteroidal impacts there have been super volcanoes there have been tidal waves There's been a lot of shit that happens then all sudden chaos I mean we saw what happened with Katrina Katrina hit and there was looting and rioting and chaos and People have the right to defend themselves and protect themselves in in that kind of situation when people go crazy Then you you factor in the possibility of government Going crazy. 0.72

01:47:27.000 That is just as much of a possibility. 0.93

01:47:29.000 It's happened all throughout history.

01:47:31.000 It's happening in Russia right now.

01:47:33.000 Sure. 1.00

01:47:33.000 Russia is being run by fucking gangsters. 1.00

01:47:36.000 And not the Chael Sonnenkind. 1.00

01:47:37.000 Sure.

01:47:38.000 A different kind of gangster.

01:47:39.000 Right. 1.00

01:47:39.000 I mean, Putin is a murderer. 1.00

01:47:40.000 He's a tyrant, for sure. 1.00

01:47:41.000 Yeah. 0.91

01:47:42.000 100%.

01:47:42.000 Yeah.

01:47:43.000 I mean, I'm not...

01:47:44.000 And he's an effective leader.

01:47:45.000 Yeah.

01:47:46.000 For all the wrong...

01:47:46.000 But yeah, he is effective.

01:47:48.000 Yeah, I think there is an argument that when people have ultimate power, they also have massive potential for corruption. 0.99

01:47:58.000 We see that today with the Clinton campaign, this nonsense with the fucking emails and the classified data that she had inadvertently or purposely sent through email. 0.95

01:48:11.000 And then the difference between her take on it and what the FBI's take on it was, like, there's clearly lying going on. 0.99

01:48:17.000 There's clearly corruption going on.

01:48:19.000 There's clearly people protecting her.

01:48:21.000 And that kind of corruption, where it wouldn't apply to you, and it wouldn't apply to me, we would go to jail.

01:48:27.000 Sure.

01:48:27.000 If we sent those same emails, if we were involved in the transfer of top-secret information through erroneous Sure.

01:48:52.000 Martha Stewart went to jail just for lying to the FBI. You know, now Hillary's in that same jam. 1.00

01:48:56.000 The FBI's saying they didn't look into it.

01:48:58.000 That whole thing is very fugazi. 0.86

01:49:00.000 That whole thing is very corrupt.

01:49:01.000 And I think that Comey at the FBI is a reasonable guy, or however I tend to believe him.

01:49:06.000 But this was never a fair shake.

01:49:07.000 Obama stays out of the whole thing.

01:49:09.000 Then he finally comes in.

01:49:12.000 Loretta Lynch finally comes in and says, well, we're going to honor whatever the FBI says.

01:49:15.000 And then four days later, the FBI drops the news.

01:49:17.000 It's like, guys, this has been going on for a year.

01:49:20.000 I'll tell you something else, Joe.

01:49:21.000 You know who looks weak in the whole thing is the FBI. Yeah.

01:49:23.000 These guys are supposed to be great.

01:49:25.000 We put 40 people on the Hillary Clinton case.

01:49:27.000 To put that in perspective for the listeners, four people were assigned to Al Capone.

01:49:32.000 Ten times the amount, and it took them one year of having the evidence to make a ruling.

01:49:37.000 I mean, come on, that's weak.

01:49:38.000 The same thing is going on with ISIS. We're supposed to have this great military, and no offense to the people that serve, but offense to the people that are handcuffing our military.

01:49:46.000 ISIS, when I first heard about them, For the very first time, was 200 members strong.

01:49:52.000 Now they are 4,000 strong, and we still can't stop these guys, and we're supposed to be the best?

01:49:57.000 Look, of course we could.

01:49:59.000 We just don't.

01:50:00.000 But it makes us look weak.

01:50:01.000 That would not happen in Russia.

01:50:03.000 Nobody attacks the Russians.

01:50:05.000 If you attack Putin, you will be fighting Putin right now.

01:50:07.000 No permission, no Congress, no BS. You want to go, you're going to go with Russia. 0.97

01:50:11.000 And that's why nobody does.

01:50:13.000 I think you're right.

01:50:14.000 I think you're definitely right.

01:50:15.000 And when there's direct evidence of Clinton's statements versus the FBI statements.

01:50:22.000 Clinton saying, I only used one device.

01:50:24.000 The FBI saying she used multiple devices.

01:50:26.000 Clinton saying that no classified or top secret documents were shared or leaked.

01:50:32.000 The FBI saying hundreds.

01:50:33.000 Hundreds.

01:50:34.000 Hundreds.

01:50:34.000 And deleted.

01:50:35.000 Yeah, it's all fucked. 1.00

01:50:36.000 It's all fucked. 1.00

01:50:37.000 But that's corruption. 1.00

01:50:39.000 That stinks. 0.99

01:50:39.000 And this is not the kind of corruption that we need to be absolutely terrified of, like they're going to come and steal our children and take all our money away and fucking shoot anybody who talks back. 0.99

01:50:48.000 That's not that level of corruption, but it's a slippery slope. 0.94

01:50:52.000 With any corruption, if the laws don't apply to you because your name is Hillary Clinton, but the law applies to Chael Sonnen or Joe Rogan, that's nonsense.

01:50:59.000 That's not the world that we want.

01:51:01.000 That's a real problem when someone is outside of the law, or the law respects them in a different way than it respects you.

01:51:09.000 That's not good.

01:51:10.000 And that's why the Second Amendment exists. 0.99

01:51:13.000 The Second Amendment exists to stop fuckery. 0.99

01:51:16.000 Because people are crazy. 0.99

01:51:17.000 And when people say, whoa, it's about muskets. 0.99

01:51:19.000 It's not.

01:51:20.000 It's not.

01:51:21.000 Whoa, it's for a militia.

01:51:23.000 It's only the guns are for...

01:51:23.000 No.

01:51:24.000 No, no. 1.00

01:51:25.000 It's to prevent this kind of shit from getting completely out of hand. 0.99

01:51:29.000 It's to prevent the government from taking over and allow people to form a resistance. 0.99

01:51:35.000 Sure.

01:51:36.000 To be armed.

01:51:36.000 Yeah.

01:51:37.000 And so many people think that Trump's crazy and he's going to lead us into war.

01:51:40.000 It's like, guys, sometime, read the art of war.

01:51:43.000 Just read the art of war, because the best general never fires a shot, ever. 0.99

01:51:47.000 Putin hasn't had to whip a lot of ass. 1.00

01:51:49.000 Now, Putin will kill you if he needs to, but he hasn't had... 1.00

01:51:51.000 He took over a part of the Ukraine, didn't kill a person. 0.94

01:51:54.000 He rolled in, he said he wanted it, and now he has a part of the Ukraine.

01:51:57.000 That's leadership.

01:51:58.000 He aligned...

01:52:00.000 But I'm not saying this is good, but that's what a leader does.

01:52:03.000 A leader makes a decision.

01:52:04.000 He goes in and takes over, and he doesn't have to kill anybody.

01:52:06.000 The best general never fires a shot.

01:52:08.000 Donald Trump isn't planning to go and whip people.

01:52:10.000 He's planning to make people think he will whip them, which is why he's not going to get us into wars, and a lot of people don't see that.

01:52:17.000 And Trump can't come out and reveal this big curtain, or people go, oh, well, the whole thing's a joke.

01:52:21.000 He can't do that, so he's got to stand this ground, take people saying he's crazy, hope that enough Enough people get it to vote him into office.

01:52:28.000 But that's all he's doing.

01:52:29.000 He's going around saying, it's our way or the highway.

01:52:31.000 We're the economic power.

01:52:32.000 We're the military power.

01:52:33.000 We do things right.

01:52:34.000 You're going to do it our way, and we're not going to do a lot of compromising.

01:52:36.000 When you align like that, you look at North Korea, all the craziest they do there. 0.76

01:52:40.000 They scare everybody for years.

01:52:41.000 We pay them a bunch of money.

01:52:42.000 Bill Clinton paid them $8 billion.

01:52:43.000 George Bush paid them $6.5 billion.

01:52:45.000 I mean, it doesn't matter if you're Democrat or Republican.

01:52:47.000 You're paying these knuckleheads for making – they've never fired a shot! 1.00

01:52:49.000 They just understand the art of war.

01:52:52.000 Talk tough.

01:52:53.000 Whoever talks tough is the toughest.

01:52:54.000 On the playground.

01:52:56.000 Everybody listening to this had a tough guy in school.

01:52:58.000 Hey, who's the toughest guy in school?

01:52:59.000 Everybody listening to this right now can go, oh, I'll tell you, that guy.

01:53:02.000 They all know.

01:53:03.000 I'd ask them a follow-up question.

01:53:05.000 Did you ever see him get in a fight?

01:53:06.000 And all of them are going, no, no, who'd fight him?

01:53:09.000 He was the toughest guy in school.

01:53:10.000 Whoever talks the toughest is the toughest.

01:53:13.000 And those rules don't change from the playground to the octagon to the White House.

01:53:17.000 They don't change.

01:53:17.000 The best general never fires a shot.

01:53:21.000 When I was in high school, the toughest kid beat the fuck out of everybody. 0.93

01:53:23.000 His name was Frank Peace. 0.99

01:53:25.000 He was fucking huge. 0.99

01:53:26.000 He was most likely on steroids. 1.00

01:53:28.000 He was a gigantic fuck. 1.00

01:53:30.000 He was so terrifying. 1.00

01:53:31.000 My sister dated him for a while.

01:53:33.000 No!

01:53:33.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:53:34.000 Imagine having your sister date the toughest guy in the school.

01:53:37.000 Oh, he was a gorilla.

01:53:38.000 He used to be able to...

01:53:39.000 Remember those universal machines?

01:53:41.000 Remember they had the stack?

01:53:42.000 Yeah.

01:53:42.000 What was the stack?

01:53:43.000 Like 250 or something like that?

01:53:44.000 He could bench the whole stack like several times.

01:53:47.000 And everybody was like, whoa, he does the stack.

01:53:49.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:53:49.000 He had giant stretch marks all over his tits. 1.00

01:53:51.000 And he was like 17 with these things. 0.99

01:53:54.000 Most likely on steroids.

01:53:55.000 Pretty sure.

01:53:56.000 Well, I ran into him many, many years later.

01:53:57.000 He's a great guy, by the way.

01:53:59.000 And he was quite a bit smaller.

01:54:02.000 When I ran into him many years later, like... 0.94

01:54:05.000 Something fucking easy is going on there. 0.88

01:54:06.000 Where's the rest of you? 0.97

01:54:07.000 But, you know, that was back when people really didn't even understand steroids.

01:54:10.000 There wasn't a lot of people on them back in those days. 0.96

01:54:13.000 But my point being, toughest kid in my school beat the fuck out of everybody. 1.00

01:54:15.000 He whipped some ass. 1.00

01:54:16.000 He went to a college party and beat the fuck out of a bunch of guys. 1.00

01:54:19.000 That'll do it. 0.96

01:54:20.000 Yeah.

01:54:21.000 That'll carry your reputation.

01:54:22.000 That'll carry over. 0.96

01:54:23.000 He was a brick shithouse, that kid. 0.99

01:54:25.000 But yeah, but I understand what you're saying. 0.92

01:54:27.000 Sure.

01:54:27.000 This Donald Trump thing, which is interesting to me, is that what he's done is he's gotten the media to work for him because he found a weakness in what they do.

01:54:38.000 What they like to do is they like to talk shit. 0.96

01:54:39.000 What the media likes to do is they like to find something that they feel like is going to be embarrassing or something that they can focus on and really drone on and on about it. 1.00

01:54:48.000 But with him, he owns it.

01:54:50.000 And it's similar to what you were talking about with promoting yourself and promoting yourself as a fighter.

01:54:55.000 He's promoting himself in a lot of the ways, the same way kind of that you would do.

01:55:01.000 I mean, what he's doing is he's not apologizing, he's saying provocative things, and because of that, he gets way more air time!

01:55:10.000 Than anybody else.

01:55:11.000 By far!

01:55:12.000 I mean, it's not even close.

01:55:13.000 All the other guys in the Republican candidates, they were all playing second fiddle.

01:55:20.000 They were all trying to catch up.

01:55:21.000 They were even trying to do his thing.

01:55:22.000 Marco Rubio was making fun of his hands.

01:55:24.000 And what does he do? 0.99

01:55:25.000 He turns into a big dick joke. 0.99

01:55:27.000 He's like, I'm fine in that department. 0.99

01:55:30.000 Don't worry.

01:55:30.000 I'm fine in that department.

01:55:31.000 And everybody's like, he's owning it! 1.00

01:55:33.000 He's talking about his dick! 1.00

01:55:35.000 This is amazing! 1.00

01:55:36.000 And it got him even more fans.

01:55:37.000 I think people...

01:55:39.000 Are tired of what the game is right now. 0.97

01:55:42.000 What the game is right now is a guy gets on a podium, he says a bunch of things that you know and I know will fucking never happen. 0.82

01:55:48.000 Obama, everybody was hoping change, hoping change. 0.79

01:55:51.000 He's gonna close Guantanamo Bay.

01:55:52.000 He's gonna get us out of Iraq. 1.00

01:55:54.000 He's gonna get us out of Afghanistan. 1.00

01:55:56.000 We're still in Iraq.

01:55:57.000 We're still in Afghanistan.

01:55:58.000 Guantanamo Bay is still here.

01:56:00.000 No hope, no change.

01:56:01.000 Drones are everywhere.

01:56:04.000 We're gonna let whistleblowers off the hook. 1.00

01:56:07.000 Bullshit! 1.00

01:56:08.000 Cracks down on whistleblowers more than anybody. 1.00

01:56:10.000 More military than George W. Bush.

01:56:13.000 Okay?

01:56:13.000 More attacks on free press than any Republican president.

01:56:19.000 But, because he does it under the guise of being on the left, People don't look at the cold hard reality of his actions. 1.00

01:56:27.000 So it's a bullshit fucking scam. 1.00

01:56:29.000 So this guy comes along and he plays it like a pro wrestler. 1.00

01:56:33.000 He plays it like a reality TV star.

01:56:35.000 He plays it like a guy who is savvy about the media.

01:56:39.000 He's been working the media his whole career.

01:56:42.000 And it's working.

01:56:43.000 Yeah.

01:56:44.000 I love it.

01:56:45.000 And to your point, he is running his presidential campaign the way Vince McMahon would promote a WrestleMania.

01:56:50.000 And he's getting attention.

01:56:52.000 He's evoking an emotion.

01:56:53.000 Front Row Brian actually told me, who's watching right now, he keeps texting me.

01:56:57.000 Quick shout out to him.

01:56:58.000 I'm stealing his line, but he's right about that.

01:57:00.000 He's evoking an emotion.

01:57:01.000 He's getting people involved.

01:57:02.000 He understands that ratings are what get you on TV. He understands he can save money for that.

01:57:06.000 He's also refused to take donations.

01:57:09.000 He doesn't want to be bought.

01:57:10.000 He wants everybody to understand that he's going to go in free and clear and owe nobody anything.

01:57:14.000 But wait a minute.

01:57:15.000 He just requested a bunch of donations.

01:57:16.000 He took it back.

01:57:17.000 But, Joe, he was very candid about it.

01:57:19.000 He said, I have been funding this myself.

01:57:22.000 And he said, and frankly, I haven't gotten a very good return.

01:57:24.000 I'm funding this myself so everybody knows I'm not bought and sold, that I haven't made deals, that I'm going to go in there and actually represent the people.

01:57:31.000 I'm going to take a pay cut.

01:57:32.000 I'm going to go do a job I don't want to do because it's a job I think I need to do.

01:57:35.000 That message didn't get out.

01:57:37.000 And he said, look, I'm losing in the polls to somebody who is bought and paid for because she's got more money than me.

01:57:42.000 You people don't seem to understand this message of me going in there not owing anybody anything.

01:57:47.000 I haven't got an investment on my return, and I'm thinking about taking it back and opening it up to donations.

01:57:51.000 But he was very honest about it.

01:57:52.000 He was very candid.

01:57:54.000 I thought he had like an emergency drive.

01:57:56.000 He did.

01:57:57.000 And he pulled it back?

01:57:58.000 No, no, no, no.

01:57:59.000 What I'm saying is he had the emergency drive, but that was interesting too.

01:58:02.000 He said, I want to raise $10 million in two days, and by the way, if you guys give me $10 million, I'll throw another $10 million in on myself.

01:58:07.000 So he ended up matching.

01:58:09.000 He put $20 million.

01:58:10.000 Then he did it again.

01:58:10.000 It was such a success, he did it again.

01:58:12.000 Well, it's a weird situation for the Democrats because if Hillary did get indicted and if Hillary did wind up getting convicted or they punished her in any way, it's over.

01:58:24.000 That side's over, right?

01:58:26.000 So who else is there?

01:58:28.000 Bernie Sanders?

01:58:29.000 They don't want that.

01:58:30.000 Nobody wants that.

01:58:31.000 That's just...

01:58:34.000 A lot of people think she's picking up Elizabeth Warren.

01:58:39.000 I don't think so.

01:58:40.000 I think she's cognizant enough to know that America does not want to look sexist, but it in fact is.

01:58:45.000 That America's going to have a hard time putting a female as the commander-in-chief of the military, who doesn't come out and endorse anybody, but if you talk to them privately, they do not want to be led by a woman. 0.99

01:58:54.000 That's a reality.

01:58:56.000 I think she's smart enough to know they damn sure don't want to be led by two, but of course would never say that publicly, right?

01:59:03.000 We don't want to look sexist as a country, even though we are.

01:59:05.000 If Hillary wants to put the nail in the coffin of this campaign, she puts Bill as her VP. She does not have an ego that would allow her to do such, and I think she might make the air of putting Elizabeth Warren in. 1.00

01:59:19.000 Man, that would be a weird thing because Elizabeth Warren pretended that she was Native American. 0.98

01:59:24.000 Yeah.

01:59:25.000 She lied.

01:59:25.000 Straight up lied.

01:59:26.000 And that's racist.

01:59:27.000 There's no way around that.

01:59:28.000 Cultural appropriation.

01:59:29.000 That's a big thing today.

01:59:30.000 Yeah, there's no way around that one.

01:59:31.000 She sure did.

01:59:32.000 And then what?

01:59:33.000 She commented on her eye.

01:59:34.000 Well, my eyes look this way.

01:59:35.000 Yeah, it got bad.

01:59:36.000 It got bad.

01:59:37.000 And Trump, instead of saying it the way he used to, well, you know, you lied about me.

01:59:41.000 He calls her Pocahontas.

01:59:42.000 Yeah, Pocahontas. 1.00

01:59:43.000 Everybody says that's racist.

01:59:45.000 He says it more. 0.57

01:59:46.000 Well, he calls Bernie Sanders Crazy Bernie.

01:59:48.000 He calls Hillary Lion Hillary. 0.99

01:59:50.000 Crooked.

01:59:51.000 Yeah, Crooked Hillary. 1.00

01:59:52.000 Lion, Crooked Hillary. 0.97

01:59:52.000 That's smart. 0.97

01:59:53.000 I mean, look what he does by labeling them in that way.

01:59:55.000 Little Marco.

01:59:56.000 Yeah.

01:59:56.000 Lion Ted.

01:59:58.000 It's great.

01:59:59.000 It's WrestleMania.

02:00:00.000 He gimmicked them all.

02:00:01.000 Yes, he did.

02:00:01.000 He gave them all a gimmick.

02:00:02.000 Well, he juked the system.

02:00:03.000 The system was based on deception in the first place, and they had this whole standard operation, the way they would run things.

02:00:11.000 They would all do it the exact same way, and he came in and exposed all the flaws in the game.

02:00:16.000 Yeah.

02:00:17.000 And he's not done.

02:00:18.000 And he's not backing off.

02:00:19.000 And everybody keeps waiting for him to back off.

02:00:20.000 It's not the real presidential candidate.

02:00:24.000 I mean, it's not the real campaign yet.

02:00:26.000 The real campaign begins once it is absolutely Hillary and absolutely him. 0.94

02:00:31.000 And it gets boiled down.

02:00:32.000 Like, right now we're in July. 0.99

02:00:34.000 When it gets to be August and then September, that's when shit's gonna really start flying.

02:00:40.000 You know, it's gonna be interesting to see what he uses to try to attack her and what she used to try to attack him and How both they're gonna they're both gonna get damaged in the process and our system is gonna be damaged in the process and that's something that I think Everybody is kind of cognizant of when you destroy someone who is on their way to become the commander-in-chief You kind of weaken the whole nation because that person becomes the like look if Hillary One,

02:01:05.000 say if the elections were tomorrow, and the FBI thing happened today, and then she wins tomorrow, and everybody's going to be like, eugh.

02:01:11.000 We know she did something that we would have been punished for.

02:01:14.000 It weakens the position.

02:01:16.000 And it weakens it in the eyes of the world, too, I'm sure.

02:01:19.000 It does.

02:01:20.000 When we talk about VP picks...

02:01:21.000 I'm not sure that they've got it right.

02:01:23.000 The media thinks they've got it narrowed down to four guys and they added one more for Trump on Trump's side.

02:01:28.000 Christie and Gingrich and Pence, they've got five.

02:01:31.000 I don't think they're right.

02:01:32.000 I think that he will go outside the box. 0.97

02:01:34.000 He's not going to put a woman in there just to put a vagina on the ticket and think he's going to do well like McCain did with Palin. 0.93

02:01:40.000 I think he's going to bring in somebody that's either got Admiral or Colonel or General next to their name. 0.96

02:01:45.000 I think that it is very important for him To look powerful.

02:01:49.000 And be powerful.

02:01:50.000 And I think he wants a military guy.

02:01:51.000 And I think that's who he admires.

02:01:53.000 I don't think he admires politicians.

02:01:54.000 I think he admires soldiers.

02:01:56.000 That would be interesting if he did that.

02:01:58.000 And that would be a huge step up if he did do that.

02:02:01.000 In terms of how public responded to him.

02:02:04.000 Because if he's like the big showman, but he's got some very serious guy with some real world experience as his second guy.

02:02:11.000 That would be really interesting. 0.91

02:02:13.000 To me, it's just disturbing that we're down to a reality TV star and an old lady trying to get back at her husband for a blowjob he got in the 90s. 0.99

02:02:21.000 Sure. 0.96

02:02:21.000 The whole thing is just disturbing. 0.96

02:02:23.000 Bill Clinton treated the White House like it was a frat, and I will forever appreciate that.

02:02:27.000 I just will.

02:02:28.000 I just will!

02:02:29.000 I mean, he was a mess.

02:02:30.000 He was all these different things.

02:02:31.000 He was unapologetic. 1.00

02:02:32.000 He was the master liar. 0.96

02:02:33.000 Remember the divisible and the denominator? 0.89

02:02:36.000 And he was going in all these circles, and before you're done, you're just flat out confused.

02:02:39.000 Come on, man, that Oxford degree really sent me in circles.

02:02:41.000 I guess we give this guy a pass.

02:02:43.000 He's an odd dude, man.

02:02:44.000 He's a very odd dude.

02:02:45.000 And he's still swinging.

02:02:46.000 He's still swinging out there for his wife.

02:02:49.000 Yeah.

02:02:49.000 See, that's another one, though, Joe, if you don't mind me interrupting.

02:02:52.000 If he would have just told the truth back then, just used the truth on his side, it would have all been done.

02:02:56.000 If he would have just said, man, I'll sleep with anything in the world except her.

02:03:00.000 If he would have just done that, it'd be all over and said he started getting crazy.

02:03:04.000 If he would have hit him with that line.

02:03:05.000 You know, it's the same thing with Trump right now.

02:03:08.000 If he would have just said, look, I think that America should have a long leash, but attack to that leash is a big old bomb, and this is how we're going to do it, and we'll light the thing if we have to.

02:03:16.000 It's hard to deal with.

02:03:18.000 It's really hard to deal with.

02:03:19.000 I got all of this philosophy from you giving me your take on how Michael Richards should have handed the comedy store.

02:03:25.000 When you said he should have come out, he should have said, here's my problems.

02:03:28.000 I'm not a funny comic.

02:03:29.000 I was self-conscious.

02:03:30.000 You guys made me feel bad.

02:03:31.000 I wanted to hurt your feelings.

02:03:32.000 It had nothing to do with race.

02:03:33.000 I tried to hurt your feelings.

02:03:35.000 And you're right.

02:03:36.000 It all would have gone away because we go, well, that is what happened.

02:03:39.000 Yeah.

02:03:39.000 It is what happened, and that's precisely what Charlie Sheen did.

02:03:43.000 When Charlie Sheen came out and he said, look, this is how I roll.

02:03:46.000 I smoke rocks.

02:03:48.000 I pay girls to leave. 1.00

02:03:49.000 I don't pay them to have sex. 1.00

02:03:51.000 And everybody was like, what the fuck? 1.00

02:03:53.000 What do you say to that? 1.00

02:03:54.000 You can't say anything.

02:03:55.000 And everybody was hashtag tiger blood.

02:03:57.000 It was all over.

02:03:58.000 I mean, he became like sort of...

02:04:00.000 Until the HIV thing came.

02:04:01.000 That kind of put a...

02:04:02.000 That put a damper.

02:04:03.000 But you're right, Sheen was the original.

02:04:05.000 Sheen was the original that sat in the hot speed.

02:04:07.000 Everybody was waiting for the tearful John Jones-style apology, and it did not come.

02:04:12.000 Sheen ended up doing a comedy or an appearance tour or whatever.

02:04:16.000 He did $7.5 million in tickets on a two-week tour because of that one sit-down where he refused to apologize.

02:04:23.000 I like to party.

02:04:24.000 He didn't even have any comedy.

02:04:26.000 He didn't know what to do.

02:04:27.000 So he went to these things, coked up, thinking he was just going to power through it with charisma, and people were booing, and he's like, hey, I got your money. 0.93

02:04:35.000 I already got your money, which is fucking crazy to yell out at people that have bought your tickets.

02:04:40.000 But then he adjusted, he got smart, and he brought guys like Russell Peters in to sit down with him and interview him, and they actually worked out a routine, and it actually became an entertaining show towards the last leg of the tour. 0.80

02:04:51.000 But his ability to step up and say, hey, I like coke.

02:04:56.000 I like to smoke coke. 1.00

02:04:57.000 I get together, I get a bunch of girls, I pay them money, I fuck them, and then they leave. 1.00

02:05:02.000 And everybody's like, well... 0.99

02:05:03.000 Because that's what everybody's always avoided.

02:05:05.000 It's like to catch someone.

02:05:07.000 Oh, he's doing drugs.

02:05:08.000 Right.

02:05:09.000 Like, oh, he's making drugs.

02:05:10.000 The cover-up is always worse than the crime.

02:05:12.000 Again, you go back to Jon Jones.

02:05:14.000 Jon Jones gets tagged in that coke thing, he pops on Fox, and the woman asks him why he did it.

02:05:19.000 And Jon said, well, you know, and he tried to dance around.

02:05:22.000 He had to put these pocketed lines.

02:05:24.000 I did it to get high. 1.00

02:05:26.000 Next question, stupid. 1.00

02:05:27.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:05:28.000 It's fun.

02:05:29.000 Yeah, it was fun.

02:05:30.000 I was at a party.

02:05:31.000 It's having a good time.

02:05:31.000 I didn't know you were going to test me.

02:05:33.000 Right.

02:05:34.000 That's the answer.

02:05:35.000 But use the truth on your side.

02:05:36.000 It just shuts everybody down.

02:05:38.000 And it's endearing and refreshing.

02:05:39.000 Well, this current thing that he's on right now, I wonder if he can do that with this.

02:05:45.000 I wonder if he knows what it was that he took.

02:05:48.000 I just don't know.

02:05:50.000 I'm confused by this one, because I don't know how many different options there could have been where these are the two things that he tested positive for.

02:05:58.000 I don't know how many options there could have been, other than him taking that because he was getting off steroids, but that doesn't even seem to make sense because he had been tested much more recently, or before that, close to that, and he didn't have that in his system, and he didn't have steroids in his system.

02:06:14.000 But, to Victor Conte's credit, Victor Conte did question John Jones's testosterone levels and epitestosterone levels.

02:06:24.000 On his carbon isotope test.

02:06:26.000 Yeah, I remember.

02:06:27.000 And they were fugazi.

02:06:29.000 What could cause that?

02:06:32.000 Very insane, but all you're going to do is confuse people when you start talking about that.

02:06:35.000 And frankly, you can't get doctors to totally agree.

02:06:37.000 Even USADA with their highest scientists and everything, there's some confusion there.

02:06:41.000 There was something fugazi going on, but it wasn't enough.

02:06:44.000 It was just enough to start rumors not to actually take him in and go against him.

02:06:49.000 But, you know, you glossed over what I opened the show with, and I thought it was going to be one of the high points of the whole podcast.

02:06:53.000 Coffee?

02:06:53.000 I didn't know if you had to do it.

02:06:55.000 No, not the coffee.

02:06:55.000 I didn't know if you had to do it, so I don't mean to go back to it, but...

02:06:58.000 The point that this test that we're all talking about is June 16th, and there's got to be another shoe that's getting ready to drop.

02:07:04.000 Now, whether that comes back hot or whether it comes back clean, we don't know, but there's no way that Usada's last time testing a guy for a fight that was supposed to take place this last Saturday was June 16th.

02:07:14.000 There's just no way.

02:07:15.000 They've got to be at least another test out there, and possibly two.

02:07:19.000 Brock Lesnar, they test him every other day for a while.

02:07:21.000 They tested him five times in like the first two weeks.

02:07:24.000 That was in the She had like eight times in total.

02:07:26.000 Cyborg, same thing.

02:07:27.000 They did the same thing to her.

02:07:28.000 They tested her a ton of times. 0.87

02:07:30.000 Yeah, I don't know.

02:07:31.000 I mean, this is just speculation, right?

02:07:34.000 We really won't know, and I'm sure we'll find out shortly.

02:07:36.000 Sure.

02:07:36.000 Because those tests take a while to get the results back, because they're very, very thorough.

02:07:41.000 And if he tested June 16th, you've got to assume big, high-profile UFC 200, and a guy who's already tested positive for something before, so they're going to be sneaking around trying to catch him.

02:07:52.000 What was the crazy story where he went, he was hiding...

02:07:55.000 The ring.

02:07:56.000 Is that true?

02:07:57.000 I wasn't there.

02:07:57.000 Tell the story.

02:07:58.000 Alright, let's tell the story.

02:08:00.000 Usada came in, and again, this is...

02:08:03.000 By the way, this is alleged.

02:08:04.000 Yeah, this is just the story.

02:08:06.000 The story.

02:08:06.000 But this is from some of his teammates, UFC fighters that claim they were there, but...

02:08:12.000 And that doesn't make it true.

02:08:13.000 Might be guys tired of him beating the fuck out of them, too. 0.73

02:08:16.000 Yeah, that's right. 0.93

02:08:16.000 Alright. 0.93

02:08:17.000 All the disclaimers aside, let's get down to the entertainment side of this.

02:08:20.000 So Usada rolls in to Jackson's gym to do a test on Jon Jones.

02:08:25.000 And there was only some coaches in there, and there was like five people there at the time.

02:08:29.000 So he can see them coming.

02:08:31.000 Where they parked, he can see them coming.

02:08:33.000 So they don't know what to do with him.

02:08:34.000 They hide him underneath the cage.

02:08:36.000 Jon Jones hides under the cage.

02:08:38.000 They tell John, we don't know where he is.

02:08:40.000 And this is before we were enrolled in the program, and he did not need to disclose his whereabouts.

02:08:46.000 At the same time, if they show up and find you, you must test.

02:08:50.000 Vandalite, this situation, you must test.

02:08:52.000 If they can't find you, you didn't have to test back then.

02:08:54.000 So anyway, he hides under the ring.

02:08:56.000 They say, well, where is he?

02:08:57.000 He's supposed to, you know, this is his gym.

02:08:58.000 They say, well, how would I know where he is?

02:09:00.000 So instead of leaving like they thought they would do, they take a seat.

02:09:04.000 Well, there's like eight hours left in the business day.

02:09:07.000 They don't ever leave.

02:09:08.000 However long, six, eight hour time frame, John's under the cage the entire time.

02:09:12.000 So people are coming and going.

02:09:14.000 The whole thing ends.

02:09:14.000 Finally, they shut the lights off and go to lock the doors.

02:09:17.000 Now John can come out.

02:09:18.000 Well, USADA found out about that.

02:09:20.000 They didn't do this.

02:09:21.000 They wanted to get a warrant and go under that ring under the theory that at some point in that six to eight hour span he would have had to pee.

02:09:30.000 They wanted to go under forensically and collect that urine.

02:09:33.000 That's how upset they were that they had been had.

02:09:36.000 Now, I realize that we're saying all the nice stuff.

02:09:39.000 That happened.

02:09:40.000 How long was the time frame and all that, that part's subject.

02:09:44.000 It's a great story, even if it didn't happen.

02:09:45.000 They were coming after him after that, when they found out that they had been doing anything they hate.

02:09:49.000 They don't like when people say their test doesn't work, and they don't like being duped.

02:09:53.000 And they came after.

02:09:54.000 Remember when I predicted Rumble Jones will not happen?

02:09:57.000 Yes, you did.

02:09:57.000 That's because I had that story and I knew Usada was looking for him.

02:10:01.000 I knew they had boots on the ground in Albuquerque waiting for him to leave the club, to get him for anything.

02:10:07.000 I was armed with that.

02:10:09.000 I've never told that size.

02:10:09.000 That's why I predicted that fight when it happened.

02:10:11.000 I knew they were after him.

02:10:13.000 And this is before we had to do the whereabouts like we do now.

02:10:16.000 Back then it was just random and they were just waiting.

02:10:19.000 They were just waiting for the right time and they were going to grab him.

02:10:22.000 Wow.

02:10:25.000 If they got a warrant to check underneath, how would they prove it was his pee?

02:10:29.000 There's a lot of problems. 0.75

02:10:30.000 Fighters are dirty.

02:10:31.000 There's a lot of problems. 1.00

02:10:32.000 Just to show support, they could all just whip their dicks out and pee underneath the cage. 0.99

02:10:37.000 Yeah, sure. 0.98

02:10:38.000 I mean, if you really love the guy, just pollute the water.

02:10:41.000 Or better yet, Joe, you go under and you clean underneath the cage.

02:10:44.000 That would also solve the problem.

02:10:45.000 It turns out John's pregnant. 0.98

02:10:47.000 Look, get under there and...

02:10:51.000 Yeah, it was just a mess, but yeah, that's...

02:10:53.000 Could be anybody's urine.

02:10:54.000 There you go.

02:10:55.000 Yeah, it was.

02:10:56.000 I mean, that's a great story, though.

02:10:58.000 It's one of the great all-time avoiding a drug test stories.

02:11:01.000 Sure.

02:11:02.000 Maybe the best.

02:11:03.000 Right?

02:11:04.000 Yeah.

02:11:04.000 You came on here to promote a submission grappling thing.

02:11:07.000 We never even got to it.

02:11:08.000 Yeah, we got a big thing coming up.

02:11:10.000 Sunday.

02:11:10.000 This coming Sunday.

02:11:12.000 Yeah, July 17th.

02:11:13.000 Live and free on Flow Combat.

02:11:14.000 Now you gotta be a member, right?

02:11:16.000 That's the trick.

02:11:17.000 Sell to it.

02:11:17.000 But you're not buying a pay-per-view window.

02:11:19.000 You just get a monthly subscription.

02:11:21.000 There's content everywhere.

02:11:21.000 What is the website?

02:11:21.000 Flow Combat?

02:11:24.000 FLO. That's right.

02:11:26.000 FLO Combat.

02:11:27.000 Thank you for correcting me on that.

02:11:29.000 EBI rules.

02:11:30.000 Eddie Bravo Invitational rules.

02:11:31.000 They'll go for eight minutes.

02:11:32.000 There's no score.

02:11:33.000 You either find a submission or you don't.

02:11:35.000 If you don't, you go into an overtime format.

02:11:38.000 Now, you know how EBI works.

02:11:39.000 And this is the biggest promotion of the whole thing.

02:11:42.000 Isn't that somebody's going to go out and compete.

02:11:43.000 And I've got to do some grappling since I've been retired.

02:11:45.000 But we always had a clause that if you could eat up the clock, you've got to draw.

02:11:49.000 Nobody loses.

02:11:50.000 Well, that's a victory sometimes when you're in over your head.

02:11:52.000 You're out there wrestling for a draw.

02:11:54.000 When I had Gavau, I was out there wrestling for a draw.

02:11:57.000 Under EBI rules, somebody's going to tap.

02:11:59.000 So when you factor in, you've got Jake Shields taking on Chris Lytle, one of those guys is going to tap.

02:12:05.000 When you've got Vinny Magalhães, maybe the best grappler there is right now.

02:12:08.000 Magalhães.

02:12:09.000 He always corrects me on that, too.

02:12:11.000 I feel like it's tomato-tomato.

02:12:14.000 Vinny Moguliez is how I said it.

02:12:18.000 He's going to be taking on Ronnie Marks.

02:12:20.000 King Mo got hurt.

02:12:21.000 He hurt his neck.

02:12:22.000 Ronnie Marks has now stepped in.

02:12:23.000 He fought Yoel Romero.

02:12:25.000 King Mo hurt his neck?

02:12:25.000 Yeah, King Mo hurt his neck.

02:12:26.000 King Mo didn't pull out.

02:12:27.000 I pulled him off the card.

02:12:28.000 I found out he was hurt.

02:12:30.000 It happened in his fight with Phil Davis.

02:12:32.000 And he's one of the main training partners for Robbie Lawler.

02:12:35.000 And he hasn't even been able to train with Robbie.

02:12:37.000 I ran into Liborio.

02:12:39.000 You want to correct me on that name, too?

02:12:40.000 Liborio.

02:12:41.000 Thank you.

02:12:41.000 Ran into Liborio over the weekend at the Super Show.

02:12:47.000 He said, man, King Moe can't move.

02:12:49.000 He just doesn't want to pull out.

02:12:51.000 Herniated disc?

02:12:52.000 Yeah, something like that.

02:12:53.000 I don't have all the details, but I got a hold of Moe.

02:12:55.000 I said, is this true?

02:12:55.000 He said, yeah.

02:12:56.000 God, it's so common in grappling. 0.99

02:12:58.000 So many guys have fucked up necks. 0.98

02:13:00.000 Yeah, we got to pull that one. 0.99

02:13:01.000 So Hani Marks is in.

02:13:02.000 He fought UL Romero, Aaron Simpson.

02:13:04.000 Do you remember those?

02:13:04.000 He just signed with World Series of Fighting.

02:13:07.000 So Haney's in against Vinny, and then the biggest one, the absolute biggest one that wasn't meant to be, but this is the one that's got my phone ringing, Rico Rodriguez is coming back.

02:13:16.000 Wow.

02:13:16.000 After all these years, he's going to take on Fabiano Scherner, my coach.

02:13:19.000 He's going to take on my coach, and one of them is going to tap.

02:13:22.000 Yeah, Fabiano Scherner, who also fought in the UFC back in the day.

02:13:25.000 He's an excellent Brazilian jiu-jitsu practitioner.

02:13:29.000 Yeah, that's interesting, man. 1.00

02:13:30.000 Rico's a bad motherfucker, man. 1.00

02:13:31.000 His ground game's very good. 1.00

02:13:32.000 He's fantastic.

02:13:33.000 He's fantastic.

02:13:34.000 And then the question with Rico, Joe, you know, Grappling is a gateway into MMA. So now that Rico's all of a sudden back in grappling, that's everybody's big question.

02:13:43.000 Is he coming back to MMA? And he's one of those guys that left the sport on his own.

02:13:47.000 There wasn't that a promoter wouldn't sign him or Dana didn't want him or Pride wouldn't put him under contract.

02:13:52.000 He had those personal, he did whatever, but he left on his own.

02:13:55.000 It's kind of the way Sean Shirk left.

02:13:56.000 Sean just one day wasn't fighting anymore, but it took like two years until the announcement came.

02:14:00.000 It just makes me wonder, is Rico coming back?

02:14:03.000 And I think that that's pretty cool if he is.

02:14:05.000 It's very rare where a world champion returns.

02:14:08.000 That's speculation, but let's see what happens.

02:14:10.000 Well, it's an interesting matchup either way.

02:14:11.000 And so this is something you're doing for the first time on Flow Combat.

02:14:14.000 And you said that they have to become a member.

02:14:17.000 What does that entail?

02:14:17.000 Giving up your email address or something?

02:14:19.000 Yeah, you go over, you register at FlowCombat.com.

02:14:21.000 I think it's like $15 a month, $14.95.

02:14:24.000 It's a network, though.

02:14:25.000 It's kind of like FightPad.

02:14:26.000 Yes.

02:14:27.000 There's content.

02:14:28.000 There's behind the scenes.

02:14:29.000 It's a whole network.

02:14:30.000 So you're not going to buy a pay-per-view window that then shuts off.

02:14:33.000 You become a member.

02:14:34.000 Now you can turn that off the next day.

02:14:35.000 You can turn it off at the end of the month.

02:14:36.000 You're going to buy for the month.

02:14:38.000 So you get an entire package.

02:14:39.000 They've got a ton of members.

02:14:40.000 These are real successful guys.

02:14:43.000 It's kind of just to satisfy them.

02:14:45.000 The show's sold out.

02:14:46.000 It's completely sold out in Portland.

02:14:47.000 It'll be, in my mind, the biggest grappling event ever.

02:14:50.000 I've done Metamorris.

02:14:51.000 Metamorris was sold out, but they had 700 tickets.

02:14:53.000 This is a lot more tickets.

02:14:54.000 It's sold out.

02:14:55.000 The only way to watch will be on flowcombat.com.

02:14:58.000 So the guys that are participating are going to have a lot of fun.

02:15:00.000 I just took on Michael Bisping in a grappling match.

02:15:03.000 Roy Jones was on the card.

02:15:05.000 Kurt Angle was wrestling.

02:15:06.000 Where was this?

02:15:06.000 It was this crazy card.

02:15:08.000 We wrestled in Arizona.

02:15:10.000 The week after he beat Anderson.

02:15:12.000 This just happened.

02:15:13.000 Really?

02:15:13.000 But nobody came.

02:15:14.000 See, people were like you.

02:15:15.000 They didn't even know what was going on.

02:15:16.000 Oh, I had heard about Roy Jones boxing some fan.

02:15:19.000 Fought a fan.

02:15:20.000 The guy was 5-3 in MMA. 2-0 in amateur boxing.

02:15:24.000 And he gave Roy a match.

02:15:26.000 He gave Roy a match.

02:15:26.000 Tell Roy he figured it out.

02:15:27.000 Boom, boom.

02:15:27.000 Shut him off.

02:15:28.000 Well, this is after Roy had been knocked out brutally just a couple of months ago.

02:15:31.000 Uh-huh.

02:15:32.000 I think in Russia or Germany that fight was...

02:15:34.000 Yeah, that was awful.

02:15:35.000 Yeah, Roy's staying busy, though.

02:15:37.000 You know?

02:15:38.000 I just hate seeing him take punishment, because he was such a great fighter.

02:15:41.000 He was so good.

02:15:43.000 It's so sad to see him now.

02:15:45.000 His body just looks doughy.

02:15:46.000 He doesn't look good.

02:15:48.000 He's still an excellent commentator, though.

02:15:50.000 I mean, it's not affecting the way he talks.

02:15:52.000 Right.

02:15:52.000 That is true.

02:15:53.000 Yeah, it was good to see Roy.

02:15:54.000 But the point was, you know, you had a limited amount of people there.

02:15:57.000 Right.

02:15:57.000 So, in grappling events.

02:15:58.000 And then Metamorris, now, or at least for the last one, they've got a show coming up, too.

02:16:02.000 But the last one they had, we wrestled in front of nobody.

02:16:05.000 I was kind of into that, but the point is, you know, grapplers like people there.

02:16:09.000 I just kind of like that opposite feel from going into a packed arena to that feel.

02:16:13.000 Have more of a practice room atmosphere at any rate.

02:16:16.000 Kumite?

02:16:17.000 Now that you're correcting all my words.

02:16:18.000 Is that what I'm trying to say?

02:16:19.000 This one sold out.

02:16:20.000 So the grapplers that are going to wrestle, they're going to have a roaring audience, and it's a rare thing.

02:16:24.000 Well, the Eddie Bravo rules, Eddie Bravo Invitational rules, are without a doubt the best rules, because they force guys into bad situations.

02:16:31.000 So what it is, is after the fight goes to the, would you have eight minutes?

02:16:35.000 That's right.

02:16:36.000 After it goes to the eight minute time difference, and there's a draw, what happens is you put guys in bad positions.

02:16:42.000 So just like in wrestling, one guy will start on the bottom.

02:16:45.000 In jiu-jitsu, what they're doing with Eddie Bravo rules is one guy will start on your back, Or he'll start in a position called spiderweb, which means you're defending, you get the guy on the bottom is defending against an arm bar, the guy on the top is inside control with the arm hooked and controlling the leg.

02:17:00.000 So it's a bad spot to be in if you're on the bottom, and it's a bad spot if a guy obviously has your back.

02:17:05.000 So by putting guys in those situations, you allow the fighter to try to work from a really bad spot to try to get a tap, and then you switch places.

02:17:16.000 So if you start on my back and you tap me, then I have at least an opportunity to try to tap you.

02:17:21.000 And if you escape, then you wind up winning the whole thing.

02:17:23.000 But it could be that you escape and I escape and you escape and I escape.

02:17:27.000 And we see a lot of those matches where it's like down to the wire.

02:17:30.000 And if that's the case, then you count up the amount of time spent in control.

02:17:35.000 So if it takes you 10 seconds to escape, but it takes me 30 seconds to escape, you would win because you escape quicker.

02:17:42.000 Right.

02:17:42.000 That's exactly right.

02:17:43.000 It's a great way to figure out how to make grappling matches exciting.

02:17:47.000 I talked to Eddie before we went into this, and I said, hey, listen, what are you doing?

02:17:50.000 We're going to fall on the same dates.

02:17:52.000 How do you want to do this?

02:17:52.000 Let's not get in a battle with each other.

02:17:54.000 He goes, no, no, just the opposite.

02:17:55.000 He said, I want these guys to have somewhere to wrestle.

02:17:57.000 He said, but Chael, do this.

02:17:58.000 Take my rules.

02:17:59.000 Call it EBI. That puts me up.

02:18:00.000 He goes, but do it.

02:18:02.000 And he had a great...

02:18:03.000 That's my point, Joe, and here's what his point was.

02:18:04.000 He said, you know, everybody that has a grappling event wants to make up their own rules.

02:18:07.000 He said, but as an industry, for the gym owners, for the guys that are going into the gym and they're training every day, they need to be able to train the same way.

02:18:14.000 The coach needs to be able to have a stopwatch just like he does MMA. Five-minute rounds, you do three of them.

02:18:18.000 If you're in a main event or title fight, you do five of them.

02:18:20.000 You go to a basketball court, you go volleyball.

02:18:22.000 It's the same universal rules.

02:18:23.000 He said, for an industry, we need to be All teammates, all no-gi jiu-jitsu, they need to be able to train the same way so the coach can run a practice.

02:18:32.000 And he doesn't have to go, you guys training for Abu Dhabi over here, and you guys training for the IBJJF over here.

02:18:38.000 So I thought, Eddie, you're right.

02:18:40.000 If us promoters can all get together and unify some rules, like the unified rules of MMA, as an industry, the trickle-down, which is the gyms, We can get this thing figured out and then we can start to have a hybrid.

02:18:51.000 And Eddie's rules really are quite perfect.

02:18:53.000 You know, he calls them the most gangster rules out there, but he's right.

02:18:56.000 I talked to Vinny.

02:18:57.000 I talked to some other guys that I ever talked to.

02:18:58.000 I talked to Salo Ribeiro.

02:19:00.000 They're going, look, it's EBI. That's how you find it.

02:19:02.000 If you want to know who the best is, you've got to go EBI rules.

02:19:05.000 Yeah, it really is the best.

02:19:06.000 And it stops all these draws.

02:19:07.000 These draws are brutal.

02:19:09.000 I mean, you have that Polaris match.

02:19:11.000 You've got all these amazing matchups.

02:19:13.000 And then, you know, Gary Tonin versus Paul Harris.

02:19:15.000 Draw! 0.99

02:19:16.000 How the fuck are you having draws? 0.98

02:19:17.000 Everything is a draw. 0.99

02:19:19.000 Draw, draw, draw!

02:19:20.000 You can't have people get excited about draws.

02:19:22.000 They don't get excited about draws.

02:19:23.000 It's not fun.

02:19:24.000 I talked to Halleck about that, and Halleck goes, you know, I do have one problem with that.

02:19:28.000 He said, guys are more, I can get them to wrestle more.

02:19:31.000 Guys kind of like that clause, and you've got to have a time limit somewhere, and we don't quite know how to figure out the overtime yet.

02:19:35.000 He said, but the problem I'm running into is I want a champion.

02:19:38.000 He said, and it's hard to build a division and decide who's the next No.

02:19:42.000 1 contender if you don't have an architecture in place where a guy advances through a bracket, if you will.

02:19:47.000 You have to have a winner.

02:19:50.000 Right.

02:19:51.000 Yeah.

02:19:51.000 Yeah, that is a giant issue with everybody else's rule set.

02:19:55.000 I just think that if you look at submission grappling, and especially people that have a problem with the quote-unquote violence of MMA, the submission aspect of it is beautiful to watch.

02:20:06.000 It's exciting.

02:20:07.000 It's dynamic.

02:20:07.000 You watch someone get choked out.

02:20:09.000 It's crazy.

02:20:09.000 I mean, it's really interesting.

02:20:11.000 It's fun.

02:20:12.000 It's an exciting part of martial arts.

02:20:15.000 And it's something that guys can do when they retire from fighting.

02:20:19.000 It's something that a lot of people that don't want to get involved in MMA, but guys like the Mendez brothers or Gary Tonin, he's actually probably going to do MMA eventually, but all these super talented grapplers, it gives them an opportunity to show their stuff.

02:20:33.000 Yeah.

02:20:34.000 I love that you know who Tonin is, by the way.

02:20:36.000 He's so exciting.

02:20:38.000 I've had him on.

02:20:39.000 Oh yeah, Tonin on here.

02:20:39.000 Yeah, he's been on.

02:20:41.000 He's fantastic, but you've got so many guys like this.

02:20:44.000 If you dangle that big carrot and all of a sudden you're just signing the most popular and the most famous guys, it's kind of tough.

02:20:49.000 I really like the Olympic model or even the NCAA model.

02:20:52.000 The best guy always steps forward, but the best guy a lot of times has a hard time getting his chance.

02:20:56.000 Promoters want guys that are going to sell.

02:20:59.000 It's like, let's put that on hold.

02:21:00.000 If you're a good promoter, you'll figure out how to sell.

02:21:03.000 You just will.

02:21:03.000 If you're a promoter, use Dana's turn, you'll bring in the bells and whistles.

02:21:06.000 But let's give everybody a chance, the same way the Olympics games does.

02:21:10.000 Anybody that thinks they're best, raise your hand, let's get in here and figure it out.

02:21:14.000 Now we're going to have to have a lot of events, we're going to have to work, but let's get a system in place and let's figure it out.

02:21:19.000 Boom.

02:21:20.000 One set of rules.

02:21:20.000 EBI. What is your event called?

02:21:23.000 It is called Submission Underground, and it can be found at flowcombat.com.

02:21:28.000 Live and free to all members.

02:21:30.000 Ooh, what is this video?

02:21:32.000 Let's play this video and let's end on this.

02:21:33.000 Oh, let's play it!

02:21:34.000 Look at that handsome guy!

02:21:34.000 Let's end on this video, and anything more to tell people?

02:21:38.000 You're SonnenCH on Instagram, Chael Sonnen on Twitter?

02:21:46.000 Absolutely.

02:21:46.000 Facebook, all that jazz?

02:21:47.000 Yes.

02:21:48.000 Appreciate it.

02:21:48.000 Thank you for the point.

02:21:49.000 My pleasure, brother.

02:21:50.000 Bruce Buffer was going to announce this show.

02:21:52.000 He fell a week ago.

02:21:54.000 Blew his ACL out.

02:21:55.000 Blew his ACL, can't fly.

02:21:56.000 Yeah, he was doing a lip sync competition.

02:21:59.000 Yes.

02:22:00.000 And apparently, he got up, he gutted it out, and he tried to keep going, and then he tipped over sideways.

02:22:05.000 Yes.

02:22:06.000 And fell over again.

02:22:07.000 And it was hilarious.

02:22:07.000 Sad, sad.

02:22:08.000 Want Bruce to get better.

02:22:09.000 Yeah.

02:22:09.000 Very funny, though.

02:22:10.000 Very funny.

02:22:11.000 Unfortunate.

02:22:11.000 This is the second time he blew his knee out doing that, too, by the way.

02:22:14.000 He blew his knee out.

02:22:15.000 That jump that he does, it's time!

02:22:18.000 When he does that, he leaps in the air.

02:22:20.000 He blew his ACL out doing that once, too.

02:22:22.000 I watched him limp out of the ring.

02:22:23.000 This is his second ACL surgery. 0.99

02:22:25.000 So, it's a fucking hard job, folks. 0.99

02:22:28.000 Okay? 1.00

02:22:29.000 All right.

02:22:30.000 Chael Sonnen, ladies and gentlemen, and we'll end with this.

02:22:32.000 Chael Sonnen, Submission Underground.

02:22:34.000 Again, Flow...

02:22:35.000 What is it?

02:22:36.000 Combat.

02:22:37.000 FlowCombat.com.

02:22:38.000 FlowCombat.com.

02:22:39.000 And it is this...

02:22:40.000 Sunday, July 17th, live and free for all members.

02:22:43.000 And we'll tweet it.

02:22:44.000 It'll be on my Twitter, so I'll let you guys know in advance.

02:22:47.000 Thank you, brother.

02:22:48.000 Always great to have you on, and anytime you want to come on again, open invitation.

02:22:51.000 I appreciate that.

02:22:52.000 Thank you, pal.

02:22:53.000 Let's play it.

02:22:54.000 I'm Chael P. Sonnen and I am here to speak to you about the pathetic state of affairs in today's grappling competition.

02:23:00.000 When grapplers come, when promotions bring these guys, they're not sending their best. 0.90

02:23:04.000 They're boring.

02:23:05.000 They're dull.

02:23:06.000 They're not risk takers.

02:23:08.000 I am going to change all of that.

02:23:10.000 No more 20-minute matches where it can end in a draw.

02:23:13.000 What kind of atmosphere ends in a draw?

02:23:15.000 This is anti-competition.

02:23:17.000 One set of rules.

02:23:18.000 Somebody must win and somebody must lose.

02:23:21.000 Guys, this is America.

02:23:23.000 We don't go to draw.

02:23:24.000 We play for keeps.

02:23:25.000 We play for somebody to get their hand raised.

02:23:27.000 Guys, if you don't know, you damn sure should know.

02:23:29.000 On July 17th, Submission Underground is invading Portland, Oregon's Roseland Theater.

02:23:35.000 Now, tickets are sold out, but you've still got a chance.

02:23:38.000 Go to your desktop.

02:23:39.000 Grab your smartphone.

02:23:40.000 Send a pigeon.

02:23:41.000 Send a fax if you have to.

02:23:42.000 Let your friends know.

02:23:43.000 Don't be left in the dark Monday morning around the water cooler.

02:23:47.000 Don't be the only person that didn't witness history.

02:23:50.000 Go to flowcombat.com.

02:23:53.000 God bless America.

02:23:55.000 Good night, everybody.

02:24:01.000 That's a genius right there!

The Joe Rogan Experience - July 11, 2016

Joe Rogan Experience #822 - Chael Sonnen

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript