The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #834 - Dan Doty

00:00:00.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:02.000 There are two Austins. 1.00

00:00:12.000 One of them is a drug-addled shithole. 1.00

00:00:16.000 The other one's in Texas. 0.98

00:00:20.000 We're about 10 miles outside of Austin, Nevada.

00:00:25.000 I'm with my good friend, Dan Doty.

00:00:27.000 Hello.

00:00:28.000 Say hello, Dan.

00:00:29.000 Hello.

00:00:30.000 And we just got back from, are we allowed to say, unsuccessful until it hits the air?

00:00:35.000 Yeah, I think so.

00:00:36.000 We can say that, sure.

00:00:37.000 Well, successful in memories and fun.

00:00:40.000 We had a wonderful time chasing unsuspecting undulates with sharp pointy sticks. 0.99

00:00:45.000 It did not work out.

00:00:47.000 That means we were bow hunting for deer.

00:00:49.000 It did not work out.

00:00:51.000 Dan Doty is... 1.00

00:00:53.000 You are a fucking renaissance man, my friend. 1.00

00:00:57.000 You're an undercover hippie on a hunting show. 1.00

00:01:01.000 You're a man of a great, vast, wide range of experiences.

00:01:08.000 And, um...

00:01:10.000 Dan has worked for Meat Eater for 65 episodes?

00:01:14.000 Yeah, this is my 65th episode shooting the show.

00:01:18.000 And Dan's been on the podcast before with Remy Warren back when he and Remy were releasing that Apex Predator show, which is an excellent show that I guess they're not doing anymore. 0.97

00:01:29.000 If you hear noise, because we're driving, we're on the road right now, and we're passing through some fucking strange shit.

00:01:38.000 We're about 150 miles or so outside of Reno, I think 170, outside of Reno, Nevada. 0.98

00:01:58.000 Welcome to my show!

00:02:07.000 Weird haircuts.

00:02:08.000 Weird haircuts.

00:02:09.000 Like, they just, it gets to a certain point.

00:02:11.000 Oh man, I gotta cut the ends. 0.99

00:02:14.000 They just, they just, Reno is, Reno is fucking metropolis compared to this. 0.98

00:02:21.000 And I've always thought of Reno as being one of those weird places I really don't want to go to. 0.97

00:02:25.000 But, um, no offense if you're from Reno and you're listening to this.

00:02:28.000 Nevada is, it's a bigger state than I thought and it's, it's as empty as anything.

00:02:33.000 You know what gain means.

00:02:35.000 What does gain mean?

00:02:36.000 Does that mean the...

00:02:36.000 So, yeah, it's like how much it's amplifying the sound that's coming.

00:02:39.000 Oh, so if I crank it up way high, it's probably too high.

00:02:42.000 Yeah, it's making a red. 0.99

00:02:43.000 It's like, bitch, what are you doing? 1.00

00:02:44.000 There's a clipping? 1.00

00:02:45.000 Yeah.

00:02:45.000 Is it going red?

00:02:46.000 That means it's too much.

00:02:47.000 Alright, I'll leave it right there.

00:02:48.000 Okay.

00:02:48.000 So, Jamie can handle this.

00:02:50.000 Jamie knows how to do it.

00:02:51.000 This is a new thing I picked up.

00:02:52.000 It's called an Apogee microphone.

00:02:55.000 Some people were complaining about the sound quality of my iPod or iPhone recorded podcast.

00:03:03.000 Someone from my message board recommended this.

00:03:05.000 It's pretty dope.

00:03:06.000 I like how it hooks up.

00:03:07.000 It just hooks up right to the base of your iPhone.

00:03:09.000 And this might be the future.

00:03:11.000 This is really your first time?

00:03:13.000 Yeah, this is our first time.

00:03:14.000 Dan Doty, you're the one who's breaking it in.

00:03:16.000 Sounds good.

00:03:17.000 So we were about five hours outside of Reno in this incredibly beautiful, desolate landscape, chasing these deer that have these ears that... 1.00

00:03:35.000 They're as big as Kim Kardashian's ass. 1.00

00:03:38.000 And they fucking hear everything. 1.00

00:03:41.000 These animals hear everything. 1.00

00:03:43.000 And Dan and I... Dan was behind me with the camera, and I was being the clumsy, sneaky fuck trying to sneak up on these things. 0.99

00:03:52.000 And it just didn't work out. 0.99

00:03:54.000 But goddamn, it was fun trying. 0.98

00:03:55.000 Yeah, we got close. 0.99

00:03:56.000 We got some good stuff.

00:03:57.000 Yeah, I got so close that it could have happened once.

00:04:01.000 One time it legitimately could have happened.

00:04:03.000 The other time, we got kind of close a few times, but one time, I got inside of 30 yards, and as I was crawling towards them in the bushes, I made too much noise, and they got up and bolted.

00:04:16.000 There's two deer that were in...

00:04:19.000 This is too many details.

00:04:21.000 Catch it on the show.

00:04:22.000 It's called Meat Eater.

00:04:23.000 It's on Sportsman's channel.

00:04:24.000 It's an excellent show. 0.99

00:04:26.000 But this fucking trip has been really interesting. 0.99

00:04:30.000 First of all, it's nice to be off the grid for seven days. 0.99

00:04:34.000 I haven't done that in a while. 0.96

00:04:36.000 Goddamn, that feels good. 0.93

00:04:40.000 When was the last time you did that? 0.60

00:04:42.000 Probably the last time I hunted with you guys.

00:04:44.000 Probably Prince of Wales.

00:04:46.000 That was not quite a year ago, huh?

00:04:49.000 Yeah.

00:04:49.000 It was miserable.

00:04:50.000 It was less or more miserable than that one.

00:04:52.000 Oh, this is way more fun.

00:04:53.000 Way better.

00:04:54.000 I mean, this is just hot.

00:04:55.000 But I don't mind heat.

00:04:57.000 Heat doesn't really bug me.

00:04:58.000 As long as we have water, we have plenty of water.

00:05:00.000 I mean, you just keep your skin covered so you don't burst into flames.

00:05:05.000 Yeah, I have done a lot of these meat eaters, but I haven't been doing them lately the last year.

00:05:10.000 And this is the first time I've been off-grid.

00:05:14.000 I don't know, a good long time, too.

00:05:15.000 And it felt amazing.

00:05:16.000 The first three days just felt like a vacation.

00:05:18.000 Yeah.

00:05:20.000 Well, it made me realize, like, we're so addicted to taking in information.

00:05:26.000 At least I am.

00:05:27.000 I shouldn't say we.

00:05:28.000 I'm so addicted to checking the news and finding out what's going on in the world.

00:05:34.000 A lot of times it doesn't give you a chance to use your brain and think about what you actually feel about things.

00:05:43.000 You don't get a chance.

00:05:44.000 You're just so wrapped up in...

00:05:47.000 Pay attention to all the news and all the information and all the stuff that's being fed to you constantly.

00:05:53.000 Through the media, through social media networks, through, you know, all the, just everything.

00:05:59.000 It's just too much.

00:06:00.000 I try to keep my phone off for four hours at a time during the days, even if I'm working.

00:06:06.000 That's nice.

00:06:06.000 I just try to shut, I put it on airplane mode.

00:06:08.000 Put it away.

00:06:10.000 Just step away from it as much as I can.

00:06:11.000 Well, my friend Ari got it right.

00:06:14.000 I can't do what he did, but what he did was he switched to a flip phone.

00:06:18.000 That's smart.

00:06:19.000 Yeah.

00:06:19.000 You said enough.

00:06:22.000 I can't do it.

00:06:23.000 I need it.

00:06:24.000 I like having a phone, first of all.

00:06:26.000 If I had a flip phone, I wouldn't be recording a podcast right now. 0.99

00:06:29.000 Because I need a fucking iPhone for that. 0.98

00:06:31.000 Is it the first thing you do in the morning? 1.00

00:06:32.000 Do you wake up and check your phone?

00:06:34.000 Sometimes.

00:06:35.000 Shouldn't.

00:06:36.000 But sometimes I do.

00:06:37.000 It is for me, usually, man.

00:06:39.000 I can't help it.

00:06:40.000 I try not to.

00:06:41.000 What I've been trying to do lately, I check my phone and make sure nothing important is going on.

00:06:45.000 Like, I look at my text messages.

00:06:48.000 Make sure that they're okay.

00:06:49.000 Nothing's crazy.

00:06:51.000 No 911 calls or something.

00:06:53.000 And then I just try to start my day.

00:06:56.000 But I used to.

00:06:57.000 I used to hit it hard for like an hour. 0.91

00:07:00.000 Check the news, check all the bullshit, check my Twitter feed, check all the links people post me, check what I'm supposed to be doing, check this, check that. 0.94

00:07:10.000 I don't... 0.93

00:07:10.000 I try not to do that anymore. 0.93

00:07:12.000 Yeah, I've spent a fair amount of time off the grid and disconnected like that through, you know, the past ten years.

00:07:19.000 It's a weird kind of addiction because it's...

00:07:22.000 I think that's what I felt. 0.99

00:07:23.000 So when we got out here, it had been a long time since I'd been off-grid, but we got out here and it was like, holy shit. 0.98

00:07:28.000 This is great. 0.98

00:07:29.000 This feels good.

00:07:30.000 It's quiet.

00:07:31.000 Yeah, I think we're doing something weird to ourselves by constantly being connected to everything and everyone.

00:07:38.000 And everyone's terrified to be disconnected.

00:07:41.000 Terrified to take a week off of just nothing coming in but your own thoughts.

00:07:47.000 Just the world, the actual world that you see in front of your face.

00:07:51.000 Which is not what we get a lot of times.

00:07:54.000 I've been talking about that a lot.

00:07:56.000 There's a real problem with getting all the bummer news from 7 billion people.

00:08:03.000 All over the world.

00:08:04.000 Because you get a distorted perception of what's going on in the world.

00:08:08.000 Because you're connected to everything that's happening all the time, 24-7. 0.94

00:08:15.000 Anytime anything fucked up goes down, you hear about it instantly. 0.93

00:08:19.000 And it just gives you this feeling that the world's just falling apart. 0.95

00:08:23.000 But meanwhile, most of the time nothing is happening where most people are.

00:08:27.000 See, pre-iPhones or pre-these kind of phones, I... I really did disconnect from news.

00:08:34.000 I wouldn't watch news.

00:08:35.000 I didn't have a TV. I didn't do all that.

00:08:37.000 But there's no way I can claim that anymore.

00:08:40.000 There's no way that...

00:08:41.000 I don't know how I would...

00:08:43.000 Extract myself from that stream of information now because it's just, it is everywhere.

00:08:49.000 I mean, you can't open one web browser or anything without seeing anything.

00:08:53.000 So I don't know.

00:08:55.000 I have a hard time with it.

00:08:56.000 I really do.

00:08:57.000 I don't like to know.

00:08:59.000 And now, actually, lately I feel responsible.

00:09:03.000 Lately I feel more responsible that I do need to know.

00:09:06.000 I think it's about managing it, man.

00:09:09.000 I think that's the big thing, is managing it.

00:09:11.000 You don't have to completely disconnect yourself from the world, but disconnect sometimes.

00:09:18.000 And know when you're getting too much.

00:09:22.000 Like, I'll go down those...

00:09:23.000 You ever go down one of those YouTube rabbit holes?

00:09:25.000 Oh, yeah. 0.98

00:09:26.000 We watch one video on Bigfoot, and the next thing you know, it's four hours later, and you're like, what the fuck just happened? 0.98

00:09:35.000 You know, you've watched several people get eaten by crocodiles, and I watched this thing, the top crocodile attacks of 2016, and I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with me? 0.97

00:09:45.000 Why am I watching this?

00:09:47.000 Are there good ones?

00:09:47.000 Oh man, really good ones.

00:09:49.000 It's awful.

00:09:51.000 This is awful. 1.00

00:09:52.000 These poor assholes. 1.00

00:09:54.000 No, it's a noisy life. 1.00

00:09:56.000 It's a busy life.

00:09:57.000 And to me, it's almost...

00:09:58.000 It's the busyness that I get sick of more than anything else.

00:10:01.000 It's a constant pushing into everything that's going on to the...

00:10:06.000 Whether it's for a hunt or for whatever reason, I'm getting disconnected.

00:10:10.000 That is the part that I... I don't know.

00:10:13.000 That lights me up. 0.52

00:10:15.000 It makes me happy just to fucking settle down and not have things to do always and always be going somewhere and always doing something. 0.94

00:10:24.000 I try to live a pretty relaxed life anyway, but... 0.91

00:10:28.000 That even seems too busy.

00:10:29.000 Well, you were taking it to a whole other level this weekend.

00:10:32.000 You were talking about one day wanting to go to the mountain by yourself for 40 days.

00:10:38.000 I would.

00:10:38.000 I would love to do that, yeah.

00:10:40.000 And I'm sure I will do it.

00:10:43.000 I do a lot of meditation, and in the lineage of meditation that I do, there's a lot of solo practice, or basically solo retreat, where you go either in a cabin or out in the woods or whatever you want to do, and you're just there by yourself doing your thing.

00:10:58.000 I have not had a chance to do that recently.

00:11:00.000 I also used to, when I used to be a wilderness guide and would run programs for people, they would always do a solo at the end of their wilderness experiences.

00:11:08.000 Sit out in the woods, all alone, by themselves, four days, six days, whatever it was.

00:11:14.000 Yeah, man, it's a weird thing.

00:11:16.000 It's not something I think that most people are drawn to.

00:11:18.000 I don't think it's a type of thing that...

00:11:22.000 You know, I think it is a weird thing for people in our culture, but I think there's something massively valuable to be gained by that.

00:11:29.000 Just self-knowledge, you know?

00:11:30.000 Self-experience.

00:11:31.000 Just reflection.

00:11:32.000 Oh, yeah.

00:11:34.000 Yeah, well, reflection, but then also exploration, I think, you know?

00:11:38.000 Of your own thoughts.

00:11:39.000 Yeah, man.

00:11:40.000 And, like, what's actually there?

00:11:42.000 Like, what's really inside you?

00:11:44.000 What really...

00:11:46.000 You know, disconnected from all the input of information and the need to go do stuff and the need to say stuff. 0.75

00:11:52.000 But just to, like, fucking be there with what's going on. 0.95

00:11:56.000 Yeah. 0.97

00:11:57.000 You know, I'm a big fan of the isolation tank, and you and I have talked about that.

00:12:02.000 But one of the things that's weird is when I tell people about it, I've had many people say this to me.

00:12:09.000 Oh, I don't want to be alone with my thoughts.

00:12:10.000 Yeah.

00:12:11.000 Like, what?

00:12:12.000 You don't want to be alone with your thoughts.

00:12:14.000 You want to know how you really feel about things and explore whether or not you're right about things or wrong or whether or not you have a bias or whether or not you have some sort of preconceived notion.

00:12:26.000 You know, one of the things that I've found That a lot of people do is they have an opinion on something, and then when confronted with new evidence, they do their damnest to try to defend that original opinion.

00:12:38.000 To dig in. 1.00

00:12:39.000 Yeah, they dig in, and they fuck themselves. 0.99

00:12:42.000 You've got to be able to be flexible with your ideas or not you. 1.00

00:12:46.000 Yeah, man.

00:12:47.000 Totally.

00:12:48.000 So the idea of going out to a mountain and being there, to me it's about, I think there's a disconnect in our culture from the actual experience and however you want to say that, your actual physical experience that you're having in the moment, the actual emotional experience or even mental experience.

00:13:07.000 I think that there's so much controlling experience Us.

00:13:12.000 You know, we control ourselves and other things.

00:13:14.000 Other forces control us, but the actual sitting in what's actually happening is, to me, the most compelling part of being alive.

00:13:23.000 And I think there's a lot of ways that people go about doing that.

00:13:28.000 But it is challenging, and it's not something that...

00:13:33.000 Yeah, you're right.

00:13:34.000 It scares the shit out of people.

00:13:35.000 You know why?

00:13:35.000 Because it is scary.

00:13:37.000 I think it's intense.

00:13:38.000 Life's intense.

00:13:40.000 When you actually have to confront what life is, when nothing else...

00:13:44.000 You know, when you're really just thinking, alone by yourself, nothing else is occupying your thoughts, not a television show, not an album.

00:13:52.000 And those things are great too, but to be alone with your thoughts...

00:13:58.000 Totally.

00:13:59.000 And I think it extends to being with other people too.

00:14:03.000 I think there is something to be practicing, being able to be present in the experience that's happening, right?

00:14:09.000 I think that different spiritual traditions are searching for that thing.

00:14:14.000 All kinds of different things that people do to try to...

00:14:17.000 Feel better and do better at life.

00:14:20.000 So yeah, the practice of doing it yourself, I think, is one thing.

00:14:24.000 And then, I think an even more challenging thing is that sort of rawness or simplicity or even connection with somebody else present is even fucking harder.

00:14:36.000 So I actually think it opens up a way of living life that is...

00:14:42.000 I don't know, fascinating and really exciting.

00:14:45.000 Yeah, that's an important point about being alone, too, because when you're around other people, other people influence your thoughts.

00:14:51.000 They influence the way you feel, they influence the way you react to things.

00:14:55.000 And to be alone, and then on top of that, to be alone in nature, that's what's, that's really interesting.

00:15:02.000 That's, that's really interesting to me, because look at that, there's a tornado out there.

00:15:06.000 Yeah, it's like a...

00:15:08.000 A dust twister?

00:15:09.000 A dust bin?

00:15:10.000 What do they call it? 1.00

00:15:12.000 It's a goddamn tornado. 1.00

00:15:14.000 We better run for the hills. 1.00

00:15:16.000 I think that's what hit us.

00:15:18.000 Before we came into Austin, we got swiped by the wind.

00:15:20.000 I think it was one of those.

00:15:21.000 We got hit by this huge...

00:15:23.000 Austin, Nevada, by the way.

00:15:26.000 Not Austin, Texas.

00:15:27.000 I thought you liked Austin, Texas.

00:15:29.000 I do.

00:15:29.000 I like Austin, Texas.

00:15:31.000 I don't even hate Austin, Nevada. 0.99

00:15:32.000 I'm just fucking around, folks. 0.97

00:15:35.000 But the place where we are at is a particularly unusual kind of nature because it's desert. 0.99

00:15:43.000 But it's got these sage plants everywhere which really smell awesome when you step on them and break them.

00:15:50.000 They have this cool, you know, sage has got a great smell to it.

00:15:53.000 So you have these sage plants all over the place and these very small shrubs.

00:16:00.000 Occasional trees, not that many, but mostly like these six foot high at most shrubs.

00:16:07.000 And there's a few of those trees, like those little...

00:16:09.000 Yeah, there's cedars and there's mountain mahogany.

00:16:12.000 So it's high desert, so high elevation desert.

00:16:16.000 These big massive basins, flat basins with pretty sharp and tall mountains kind of...

00:16:24.000 I mean, each of these basins is a valley.

00:16:27.000 And up to, what was it, 12,500 or 13,000 feet?

00:16:30.000 Yeah.

00:16:31.000 Just above where we were hunting?

00:16:32.000 We were really high up there. 0.99

00:16:34.000 We were above 9,000 feet, and there's these rock slides everywhere where, like, the side of the mountain's eroding, and we had to climb up that shit. 0.99

00:16:44.000 It's all these, like, chunks of rock, and especially problematic when you're trying to sneak up on these fucking... 0.97

00:16:51.000 Awesome hearing mule deer because everything's like clank clank. 0.87

00:16:56.000 It's like like you're stepping on broken pottery everywhere.

00:16:59.000 It's just weird.

00:17:00.000 It almost looks like somebody made it.

00:17:02.000 You know when you see all that it's like somebody decided to make like a giant runway filled with broken chips of rock.

00:17:10.000 It's just really, really cool.

00:17:12.000 But just like an alien landscape.

00:17:14.000 I've never been to the high country, the desert up there before.

00:17:19.000 So for me, it was a first.

00:17:21.000 And it was also...

00:17:22.000 It's beautiful, but you don't want to live there.

00:17:29.000 But it's cool to visit.

00:17:31.000 You know, it's like one of those things.

00:17:33.000 I don't like how dry it is.

00:17:35.000 That's why I only beef with it.

00:17:36.000 I think it is beautiful, but it just looks like it needs a bath, man.

00:17:42.000 But it's interesting, too, because it's so perfect for these deer. 0.99

00:17:45.000 The deer are everywhere up there, and they're fucking big and fat and healthy, and all they're doing is eating these sage bushes and then taking naps and running from mountain lions and shit. 0.99

00:17:57.000 Because we found some big, thick ropes of shit that are filled with hair that is either... 1.00

00:18:03.000 A giant fucking coyote. 1.00

00:18:05.000 Or most likely a mountain lion. 1.00

00:18:07.000 Or maybe bears.

00:18:08.000 That one seemed way too big to be coyotes. 1.00

00:18:10.000 That was a mountain lion shit, right? 1.00

00:18:13.000 Probably? 1.00

00:18:13.000 Yeah, woke up one morning by a pack of coyotes around us. 1.00

00:18:17.000 That was pretty cool. 0.99

00:18:18.000 Yeah, they were fucking screaming. 0.99

00:18:19.000 They sounded so awesome. 0.99

00:18:22.000 They were screaming.

00:18:24.000 It's interesting, we only saw deer and we saw a couple of coyotes when we were scanning the horizon.

00:18:32.000 But the landscape for people is death. 1.00

00:18:35.000 If you lived out there, you'd be fucked. 1.00

00:18:37.000 First of all, you'd never catch one of these deer. 1.00

00:18:40.000 If you had a rifle, you'd have a really good chance.

00:18:43.000 Because for some reason, they know you're bow hunting.

00:18:46.000 So they stay at like 160, 170 yards. 0.99

00:18:51.000 They just fucking stare at you. 1.00

00:18:52.000 But anything you get inside of that, they're like, fuck this. 1.00

00:18:56.000 How many deer did we get within 100 yards of? 0.99

00:19:01.000 Like maybe two groups?

00:19:02.000 Two groups.

00:19:03.000 The first day we got inside of 30 and I could have had a shot if it wasn't for it.

00:19:08.000 We only had a tag for a buck. 0.97

00:19:12.000 I should probably explain what a tag is.

00:19:13.000 We're hunting on public land.

00:19:15.000 You may not know this because most people don't and I didn't until I started hunting but We the people of the United States of America own massive chunks of land.

00:19:27.000 It is your land.

00:19:28.000 It is my land.

00:19:30.000 It's like that song, this land is your land.

00:19:33.000 But it really is that.

00:19:34.000 It's not just in theory.

00:19:36.000 It's public land.

00:19:37.000 And it's rare because most countries don't have what we have.

00:19:42.000 We have these giant chunks of forest that you can hunt in.

00:19:46.000 And you can fish in, and you can hike in, you can camp in, you can do all these different things, but to hunt in them, One thing that people don't know, especially people that are down on hunting, is that hunting is closely regulated by wildlife agencies that's manned by biologists that are working on science and data for that particular area.

00:20:09.000 So in the area where we were at, it's not that easy to get a tag.

00:20:13.000 So Steve Rinella had to use his points to get me in there as well.

00:20:17.000 And what points are is you put in for a tag...

00:20:20.000 You have to put in every year, and it takes like a few years.

00:20:24.000 So if you can hunt in this place, you could probably only hunt here like every three years.

00:20:29.000 But there's other places like the Nevada Strip, which is on the Utah-Nevada border that is so awesome.

00:20:35.000 Arizona Strip.

00:20:36.000 Did I say Nevada?

00:20:37.000 Yeah.

00:20:37.000 Sorry.

00:20:37.000 Arizona Strip, which is on the border of Arizona and Utah, which is the most cherished place for mule deer, where...

00:20:44.000 You can only hunt there like once in your life, like literally.

00:20:48.000 It takes like 20 plus years to get a tag, like area...

00:20:52.000 I think it's 13B, yeah.

00:20:55.000 So it's supposed to be the shed.

00:20:57.000 So these places...

00:21:01.000 There's not a lot of people there.

00:21:03.000 We saw a few people while we were there that were also hunting.

00:21:08.000 Shout out to James Kawasaki who gave us some great tips.

00:21:13.000 We met a really cool dude from Hawaii.

00:21:15.000 James Kawasaki, we found him hunting up there and he gave us some good tips about where to go. 0.96

00:21:21.000 He's such a fucking good dude.

00:21:24.000 It's cool when you meet someone like that who's doing the same thing that you're doing and then And he was leaving when we were coming. 0.96

00:21:29.000 And he was super generous.

00:21:30.000 He wasn't a guy who was not going to give you information.

00:21:33.000 Which happens.

00:21:34.000 Yes.

00:21:35.000 Yeah, you get people that want to hoard their honey holes.

00:21:38.000 But he gave us all this information.

00:21:40.000 So it still didn't help.

00:21:42.000 That's probably why he gave us the information. 0.99

00:21:43.000 He's like, bitch, you're not going to kill anything. 1.00

00:21:46.000 So far on this trip, Nevada folk have been incredibly generous. 0.99

00:21:49.000 He was generous.

00:21:50.000 And we're right behind a truck pulling a trailer that belongs to Remy Warren and his family.

00:21:56.000 They just hooked us up with stuff, a trailer, two trucks.

00:22:00.000 It's really incredibly generous.

00:22:02.000 Maybe that's the thing about Nevada. 0.94

00:22:04.000 Maybe it's a big empty place but maybe everybody I joke around about that place being a drug-addled shithole, but I've met a lot of really nice people from Nevada. 0.98

00:22:13.000 I mean, it has a bad reputation because Vegas is linked to organized crime and gambling and all the other sordid shit that comes with that. 0.99

00:22:24.000 People think of it as this horrible, sinful place. 0.98

00:22:28.000 But that's just a small area of Nevada. 0.98

00:22:31.000 Most of my friends that I know that live around Vegas, that are involved in the MMA business, they're fucking the nicest people in the world. 0.86

00:22:38.000 And they'll tell you, Nevada is what's outside of the Strip. 0.88

00:22:43.000 It's a great town.

00:22:45.000 Henderson?

00:22:45.000 Henderson's a great town.

00:22:47.000 It's a really nice place to live.

00:22:48.000 It's real safe.

00:22:50.000 So there's a lot of good spots in Nevada.

00:22:52.000 But anyway, point being, we're out here... 0.98

00:22:56.000 It's just a really fascinating, interesting landscape to spend seven days, but bring a lot of fucking water, that's for sure. 0.90

00:23:07.000 I'm impressed that you haven't been in a landscape like this before. 0.95

00:23:11.000 To me, this is what The majority of the American West looks like.

00:23:16.000 It's brown, and it's flat with, you know, bumpy mountains all over the place.

00:23:21.000 Well, the first place that we hunted in Montana was a little like this.

00:23:27.000 We were in the Missouri Breaks, which is right on the banks of the Missouri River, and that's how I got hooked. 0.98

00:23:34.000 It's goddamn Steve Rinella. 0.98

00:23:37.000 He's a little crack dealer with this hunting stuff. 0.99

00:23:40.000 He gave me the first dose for free, and then he got me.

00:23:45.000 But it's the same sort of feeling in the Missouri Brakes, is that feeling of massiveness, and also that you are completely insignificant.

00:23:58.000 Invisible. 0.99

00:23:59.000 Yeah, the universe, or the world, the natural world around you really doesn't give a fuck. 0.99

00:24:04.000 You could fall and smash your head open on a rock and those mule deer would bounce on by you like nothing happened. 0.98

00:24:10.000 It's amazing.

00:24:13.000 It's amazing like that.

00:24:14.000 I think the place that sunk that in the most was probably Prince of Wales.

00:24:19.000 So uninviting.

00:24:21.000 Yeah, that's one of the harshest places I've been.

00:24:25.000 I don't know, it's weird though because that one's like heaven and hell. 0.96

00:24:28.000 Like the sun comes out and you don't want to be anywhere else, but then most of the year when it is raining, because it does rain most of the year, it's just, it's fucking miserable. 0.90

00:24:37.000 It rained every fucking day we were there. 0.98

00:24:40.000 All day. 0.99

00:24:41.000 And Dan Doty was warning us before we went. 1.00

00:24:43.000 Dan was like, fuck that place. 0.99

00:24:45.000 I don't want to go back to that place. 1.00

00:24:46.000 And Steve Rinell was like, why did you say that?

00:24:48.000 I love that place.

00:24:49.000 The place is awesome.

00:24:51.000 I swore twice in my life I would not go back and I broke that promise.

00:24:56.000 It is also just amazing.

00:24:59.000 As far as the...

00:25:01.000 The animals both under the water and above the water, it's just a rich, rich environment.

00:25:07.000 Well, and it's also super unusual too, like the way it looks.

00:25:11.000 It's a rainforest.

00:25:12.000 It is a rainforest.

00:25:13.000 Well, it's close.

00:25:13.000 I don't think it's quite.

00:25:15.000 Maybe parts of the island are.

00:25:17.000 I'd have to look that up. 0.93

00:25:19.000 But it's a shit ton. 0.96

00:25:20.000 Yeah. 0.96

00:25:21.000 What is really cool about it, there's a lake at the top that's so high up that beavers don't go there.

00:25:27.000 So you can drink right out of the lake.

00:25:29.000 So we would take our water bottles and we'd just dip it in the lake and just drink right out of the lake.

00:25:34.000 So this place is almost the exact opposite of that.

00:25:38.000 Whereas that place is all just rain and...

00:25:44.000 And lush greenery and the occasional sunshine pops through and you're like, wow, look at this place.

00:25:50.000 It shines like a green, what, an emerald?

00:25:53.000 Yeah.

00:25:53.000 There you go.

00:25:55.000 So would you rather get dropped off naked here or there? 0.98

00:25:58.000 Naked. 0.99

00:26:00.000 There.

00:26:02.000 There you'd probably make it better.

00:26:04.000 You wouldn't make it here naked.

00:26:06.000 Your skin would peel off.

00:26:08.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:26:08.000 You know, there you would be cold as fuck until you figured out how to start a fire or how to kill something and wear its skin. 0.99

00:26:14.000 Kill a bear? 1.00

00:26:15.000 Yeah, it'd have to be a large thing, right? 0.85

00:26:18.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:26:19.000 You have to kill a bunch of squirrels and sew them together, make a dick holster. 1.00

00:26:22.000 It's not a lot of shit. 1.00

00:26:26.000 And then again, if you're just naked, that means you don't even have a gun or a bow and arrow, and that's not good. 0.99

00:26:31.000 None of those things are good.

00:26:33.000 But I think that Prince of Wales was, like, the most profound of all that experience.

00:26:38.000 Like, I felt it at the Missouri Breaks, that feeling of, like, just complete... 0.99

00:26:45.000 Not detachment, but like, it doesn't give a fuck. 0.99

00:26:49.000 The landscape does not give a fuck. 0.99

00:26:52.000 It is just completely oblivious to your presence, and it has existed in this form for thousands and thousands and thousands of years. 0.99

00:27:00.000 Did you get that feeling here too?

00:27:01.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

00:27:03.000 I was curious because both of those hunts, both Missouri Breaks and the Alaska one, We're non-motorized, you know?

00:27:11.000 So, like, Missouri Breaks, we dropped the cars off.

00:27:13.000 And we boated.

00:27:14.000 And we're truly, you know, you call that a true wilderness experience.

00:27:17.000 And same thing with Prince of Wales, that we got dropped off by a plane.

00:27:20.000 And if we needed to get out there in a pinch, you know, or get out of there in a pinch, it wouldn't have been.

00:27:26.000 So I was wondering if that was a little bit of the feeling you got.

00:27:29.000 Yeah.

00:27:29.000 Because there's a little bit more of an ominous...

00:27:32.000 Set of situations.

00:27:33.000 Yeah, here we had a truck that we would drive to the top of this hill, and then from the top of the hill we walked. 0.99

00:27:39.000 And fuck did we walk. 0.98

00:27:41.000 Dan Doty and I walked up hills at 9,000 foot elevation. 1.00

00:27:46.000 Some steep fucking hills, too. 0.99

00:27:49.000 Hours and hours every day, dude. 0.99

00:27:51.000 I was hurting.

00:27:54.000 But it was great cardio, though.

00:27:56.000 Awesome workout.

00:27:57.000 Yeah, nothing like it, man.

00:27:59.000 So you were telling me about these wilderness trips that you take people on, like wilderness therapy.

00:28:06.000 Yeah, so my first job out of college, I'd been living in Panama with my ex-girlfriend.

00:28:12.000 We were moving to Utah, and I just needed a job, and I didn't know what I was going to do.

00:28:18.000 So I went on Craigslist and we looked at the area around Salt Lake City and there was a job advertisement for a wilderness guide or wilderness instructor, they called it. 0.99

00:28:28.000 I didn't know this shit existed at that point. 0.97

00:28:30.000 So yeah, there's a huge industry, and most of it's in the western United States, but they're therapeutic. 0.99

00:28:37.000 Wilderness programs which are tied to a bunch of therapeutic boarding schools.

00:28:41.000 So, in the most basic sense, there's kids from generally pretty wealthy families across the country that are having trouble, their parents don't know what to do, and they'll send them away, you know, as an intervention.

00:28:55.000 And usually, the intention is to have these kids go to a boarding school where there's a therapeutic presence also.

00:29:02.000 In order to get into those schools, those schools require a wilderness stay.

00:29:07.000 So I worked for a program and went out there and just kind of, it was a The type of program where everything was made by hand.

00:29:17.000 So you got out there, you were given a half of an elk hide, you were given a knife, and then you were taught some of the basic skills.

00:29:24.000 So we had to make our own backpacks out of sticks and elk hide.

00:29:27.000 We would sew our own moccasins, we would do all that kind of stuff.

00:29:30.000 And then all the fire that we made, we had to Make by hand, you know, with a bow drill.

00:29:35.000 Whoa! 0.71

00:29:35.000 So yeah, so it was this amazing, it was really life-changing for me because I, you know, I love the outdoors, I love the wilderness and all that kind of stuff, and I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life, but got out to this place where there's, um... 0.71

00:29:49.000 Literally walked out into the...

00:29:50.000 Actually, it looks a lot like this where I work.

00:29:53.000 So just these massive, brown, dry wilderness areas.

00:29:57.000 And got out there in these groups of kids.

00:30:00.000 Some of these kids would stay in these programs for 90 to 120 days.

00:30:04.000 So literally...

00:30:05.000 And here's the part that I still very much don't agree with and I don't like is that these programs would literally kidnap you out of your bed.

00:30:13.000 There's companies of...

00:30:14.000 Really?

00:30:15.000 Yeah, man.

00:30:16.000 Yeah.

00:30:16.000 So there's like...

00:30:17.000 You can do that for a job.

00:30:19.000 You can be kind of a heavy or a tough guy that literally goes for an intervention, flies to a family's home, takes the kid out of their bed, and flies them and drops them in the middle of the wilderness.

00:30:30.000 And it's, as you can imagine, it's traumatic, man.

00:30:34.000 It's not like, you know...

00:30:35.000 How old are these kids?

00:30:37.000 Usually 14 to 19. Whoa!

00:30:40.000 19!

00:30:40.000 That's an adult!

00:30:41.000 Yeah, well that's where it gets sketchy as far as... 1.00

00:30:44.000 That's sketchy as fuck! 0.99

00:30:45.000 Maybe I should say 14 to 18. That's an adult too. 1.00

00:30:49.000 Yeah, so they have ways to sort of override the age system at times.

00:30:55.000 Yeah, so these programs are meant to sort of give the kid a chance to look at their lives, how they've been behaving, and an opportunity, just kind of like we were talking about, but reflect and sort of explore and learn.

00:31:11.000 And there's a lot of good that happens.

00:31:15.000 It really does help people.

00:31:18.000 And, in my opinion, there's a lot of bad to you. 0.53

00:31:20.000 I don't think you can ever imagine that you could literally kidnap a kid out of your house and not fuck up the trust you have with your parents, you know? 0.93

00:31:28.000 It's messed up.

00:31:31.000 Yeah, so I did that for...

00:31:33.000 I started there, and then I started working in more state-run sort of correctional programs.

00:31:39.000 So, for a long time, I led trips in Minnesota that were...

00:31:44.000 It was a 21-day sentence...

00:31:46.000 But it was basically an alternative to a 60-day juvie sentence.

00:31:51.000 So basically, you steal a car, you can either go, the judge can either send you a juvie for 60 days or send them to me, and then we'd go on a badass, like, you know, 200 mile hiking trip or something.

00:32:03.000 Definitely take that over Juvie. 0.90

00:32:05.000 Oh yeah.

00:32:07.000 For obvious reasons, but then the other reasons too is that these programs are generally run by really grounded good people that treat people well.

00:32:18.000 At least the ones I always work for.

00:32:19.000 I work for programs with really exemplary leadership.

00:32:25.000 I think what these kids could learn in those programs as opposed to going to Juvie and Yeah, I would imagine that's a way, way better option, but just the kidnapping part is crazy.

00:32:44.000 They've given up on disciplining their kids so much. 0.91

00:32:48.000 That they just say, alright, I fucked up raising this kid, it's time to just electroshock therapy, jolt them with wilderness. 0.99

00:32:56.000 Totally. 1.00

00:32:57.000 Totally, man.

00:32:58.000 And it's a long, slow, uncomfortable shock, man.

00:33:02.000 Like 120 days in the desert like this is...

00:33:04.000 Oh my god.

00:33:06.000 So when you get these kids, so like if they're kidnapped, how many days into this kidnapping do you meet them?

00:33:13.000 Well, day one.

00:33:14.000 Day one, right away.

00:33:16.000 Yeah, so a lot of programs have kind of like an in-between camp, so you come in and maybe the first two weeks...

00:33:21.000 Like a halfway house? 0.93

00:33:22.000 Yeah, yeah, like a wilderness halfway house.

00:33:25.000 Like a base camp, you know, where you learn how to do some of the skills and maybe you start...

00:33:31.000 So the other thing is there's relationships with a therapist at these programs, and that's how it works.

00:33:37.000 So the people that work with the kids directly are like what I did as an instructor, so usually there'd be two of us, two adults, with a group of ten kids.

00:33:47.000 And it was all, boy, usually segregated into male and female.

00:33:52.000 So I pretty much just worked with dudes.

00:33:54.000 For a long, long, long, long time.

00:33:56.000 So the instructors would lead the days and you'd usually hike or float or whatever you're doing, you know, most of the day.

00:34:03.000 And then you would run, you call them circles, or like processing things where everybody would...

00:34:10.000 Really, a lot of it came down to learning how to communicate and communicating honestly and openly.

00:34:15.000 It's really good.

00:34:16.000 Actually, I learned a lot by being there and doing it.

00:34:19.000 But then once a week or twice a week, a therapist would drop in somehow, magically.

00:34:23.000 And have therapy sessions with everybody.

00:34:27.000 Huh.

00:34:28.000 So a therapist they didn't even know.

00:34:30.000 Well, they developed a relationship with him, you know, and they'd work with him for, you know, three to four months that they were there.

00:34:35.000 So they became a pretty, you know, usually they became pretty close with a therapist too.

00:34:43.000 So, did it stick with many of these kids?

00:34:47.000 I have so many questions.

00:34:48.000 Did it stick with them?

00:34:49.000 I mean, how many of them, like, that experience actually changed their life?

00:34:53.000 So, yeah, good question.

00:34:55.000 I don't think anybody has the actual heart numbers on that.

00:34:58.000 Maybe some people are looking to get that.

00:35:00.000 They call that recidivism, right?

00:35:01.000 Like, if you end up back in where you are.

00:35:06.000 I know for a fact that...

00:35:09.000 I stay in contact with a ton of the kids that I work with just because, you know, we got to know each other really well and respected each other and became friends.

00:35:17.000 And I know, I've seen the benefit almost across the board.

00:35:24.000 Like, good things learned, a lot of growing up happened.

00:35:28.000 You know, it's kind of like a forced rite of passage in a sense, you know, the idea that...

00:35:33.000 A forced rite, yeah.

00:35:33.000 A forced rite of passage, which I, you know, don't agree with the forced part.

00:35:38.000 A lot of, I know a bunch of those kids, I could point to 12 right now that I know just kind of turned around, maybe went to college or didn't go to college, but ended up having good relationships with their family, are feeling good about life.

00:35:53.000 But then there's probably far, far, I know there's far more where that didn't necessarily happen.

00:35:59.000 I don't necessarily think it was a bad deal for them to go through that experience.

00:36:05.000 But it's not a cure-all. 0.85

00:36:07.000 But what it does, I think it self-selects for people who really do kind of want to figure shit out because it gives you a break and time to do that. 0.74

00:36:19.000 But, yeah, no, I wish I had more numbers on it.

00:36:21.000 How much resistance did you experience, like, when these kids would get kidnapped and all of a sudden they would come to you? 0.97

00:36:27.000 Like, how many of them were like, fuck this, get me home, where's my mom? 0.95

00:36:32.000 Many. 0.99

00:36:32.000 I mean, yeah, I don't know, 30%, 40%, 50% of just, like, either shutting down completely and not complying with anything or, you know, direct sort of resistance or anger or things like that. 0.99

00:36:45.000 Did most of those come around?

00:36:47.000 What's that?

00:36:47.000 Did they come around?

00:36:48.000 Oh, totally.

00:36:50.000 There's only a couple dudes I ever knew that kept it up.

00:36:55.000 That kind of had the stamina to keep that up.

00:36:58.000 At some point, it's just sort of like accepting the fact that you were there. 1.00

00:37:04.000 Fuck, man. 1.00

00:37:05.000 You get literally dropped in the middle of a desert and you're told you're going to be there for three months or four months. 1.00

00:37:11.000 At some point, you either have to... 0.87

00:37:19.000 Well, for someone who's on a fucked up path, it really might be one of the only ways To correct it, to give yourself that chance. 0.55

00:37:32.000 Like we were talking about being out there in the desert, in the high country, and you get kind of like a little bit of a reset. 0.89

00:37:40.000 Like you get to relax and be alone with your thoughts and just experience a completely different set of input, a set of data.

00:37:51.000 We're used to certain kinds of data and input. 1.00

00:37:54.000 And for a lot of these kids, they're used to hanging around with fuck-ups and being around their asshole friends and doing stupid shit together. 1.00

00:38:02.000 And they get stuck in these patterns. 1.00

00:38:05.000 These grooves get cut deep.

00:38:07.000 And the momentum of their life and their past is incredibly difficult to escape.

00:38:13.000 So that's why I was really excited to hear about this.

00:38:16.000 When you were telling me about it, I was like, oh, that might work for some people.

00:38:20.000 Right.

00:38:21.000 And then you asked, so how many does it work for?

00:38:24.000 One of the tougher things is that even if it does work, so say you're yanked out of your home and...

00:38:34.000 Like you just said, your home and your friends and your community has so much to do with how you end up interacting and what you do.

00:38:42.000 So even if you get sent away for Four months or even years to these programs, and then you may change.

00:38:50.000 Well, not even may.

00:38:51.000 You will change, or a kid will, someone will change.

00:38:54.000 But then, no matter how much you change, and you go back to that situation that you came from, the house, your family, just the culture that you're in, God, is it hard to...

00:39:07.000 Well, to not slip back into old patterns, but then also even just to fit in.

00:39:10.000 That's what I've been working with kids lately on, is that they go away and have these big experiences, and then they go home and mom and dad are still exactly how they were.

00:39:22.000 I try to be impartial.

00:39:25.000 I don't think I'm good at being impartial, but I try.

00:39:28.000 Looking and getting to know these kids and all the things that they went through, It's so fucking hard not to point every finger at the family and the parents.

00:39:38.000 And you know what's hard? 0.99

00:39:39.000 Is that the parents were raised by equally fucked up people. 0.99

00:39:42.000 So it's almost not even their fault. 0.99

00:39:45.000 No.

00:39:45.000 The line of blame, if you want to do that, can go back a really long time.

00:39:48.000 To the monkeys from the trees, if you believe in that.

00:39:52.000 So that's the thing about a wilderness, like a long intervention like that, I think that's what I meant about self-selecting, is it's possible for somebody who really wants to change stuff, you know, to change the momentum of your family, to change the momentum of your past.

00:40:07.000 It takes a lot of energy to do it.

00:40:09.000 It takes, like, a lot of dedication, a lot of letting go of a bunch of stuff, but it really is a pretty amazing thing to be a part of it.

00:40:17.000 That kind of experience does facilitate that sort of thing if one wants to.

00:40:23.000 But then, like I said, once you get home, it's not like it gets easier.

00:40:26.000 But you certainly can grow a lot.

00:40:29.000 And you can change a lot.

00:40:30.000 It's almost like we need that for parents, too.

00:40:33.000 Yeah, man.

00:40:34.000 Yeah, totally.

00:40:35.000 I agree.

00:40:36.000 I mean, parenting is a very bizarre...

00:40:41.000 It's sort of a...

00:40:44.000 It's incredibly complicated, very difficult to do, and it's an unbelievably huge responsibility to be in charge of really the future of a life and all the people that life is going to touch.

00:41:02.000 So if your son is going to grow up and all the things that you teach him and all the experiences that he has with you will reflect on how he interacts with other people and that ripple effect carries on to thousands and millions of people potentially.

00:41:18.000 It's incredibly...

00:41:20.000 It's so much responsibility.

00:41:22.000 And it's incredibly difficult to do correctly. 0.96

00:41:24.000 And there's no fucking... 0.94

00:41:26.000 There's no requirements. 0.99

00:41:27.000 Anybody can do it.

00:41:28.000 I mean, it's like one of the most important things in the world is to raise a person that's going to affect other people in a positive way. 0.87

00:41:35.000 And it's so fucking hard to do.

00:41:39.000 So hard to do and yet so easy to be in that position. 1.00

00:41:44.000 All you have to do is fuck. 1.00

00:41:46.000 Yeah, man. 1.00

00:41:46.000 And everybody fucks! 1.00

00:41:47.000 No, I can't stop thinking about it. 0.99

00:41:49.000 My boy was born two months ago, my first kid.

00:41:53.000 And I feel all of a sudden saddled with this responsibility.

00:41:58.000 It's going beyond him.

00:42:02.000 I feel so much less of a narcissist than I ever have.

00:42:07.000 Just that it's not about me. 0.99

00:42:09.000 And I need to clean my shit up. 0.98

00:42:11.000 I need to get my act together. 0.98

00:42:14.000 To give him as good of an example as I possibly can, you know?

00:42:18.000 I think that, and I don't know, you know, I'm a very new dad, I don't know this, but I think one of the best things that we could do as a people, as a culture, is for, yeah, for parents who are put in that position with all that responsibility,

00:42:35.000 To somehow look at themselves real hard and take that time to, I don't know the best way to put it, but just improve themselves.

00:42:46.000 Rather than trying to figure out how to parent a certain way or parent better, I really think the best thing we can do is just be better people, be better humans ourselves.

00:42:55.000 That's a very good point.

00:42:57.000 That's a very good point.

00:42:58.000 Lead by example.

00:43:00.000 You know, that was when I used to teach Taekwondo, one of the things that they would call you, the term that the Koreans use is sabonim.

00:43:11.000 And it was one who leads by example.

00:43:14.000 That was the idea behind it, behind being an instructor. 0.99

00:43:19.000 And to be a parent that leads by example, I mean, or sometimes, some people learn a lot from parents being a fuck-up. 0.99

00:43:27.000 Totally. 1.00

00:43:27.000 I know a lot of people whose parents were fucking losers, and they're just go-get-ems. 1.00

00:43:33.000 Totally. 1.00

00:43:33.000 They just get shit done, and they hustle, because their parents were drug addicts, or alcoholics, or jailbirds, or whatever the fuck it was, and they just felt the pain of their family being awful. 1.00

00:43:47.000 Totally. 0.99

00:43:47.000 But that's not a good bet. 0.99

00:43:50.000 Well, I mean, that's learning from experience or learning by example, too.

00:43:53.000 You know, I think you can either accept and love what your parents do or reject it or, you know, something in the middle.

00:44:01.000 I don't know.

00:44:01.000 But so that's what I learned.

00:44:03.000 So I worked with...

00:44:16.000 Wow.

00:44:20.000 What was that like?

00:44:22.000 55 days with one kid?

00:44:25.000 So he was amazing. 0.99

00:44:26.000 So it was fucking fantastic. 0.98

00:44:28.000 It was amazing. 0.99

00:44:28.000 He loved to work out. 0.99

00:44:30.000 He was a good kid, man.

00:44:33.000 He was like 19 or 20 and just not sure about college, not sure what to do.

00:44:39.000 Did they kidnap him?

00:44:40.000 He knew he was coming because he was an adult.

00:44:42.000 He was legally an adult.

00:44:43.000 Right.

00:44:45.000 And the first day he showed up and I remember he said, you know what, I'm going to pretend like I'm going to be here until I die.

00:44:52.000 He had this really interesting perspective.

00:44:53.000 He's like, I know this is going to be long and it's going to suck so I'm just going to sort of, you know, just not count days.

00:45:01.000 I'm not going to count my time or whatever.

00:45:04.000 But he was awesome.

00:45:05.000 So he was really into lifting weights and stuff, and I was at the time.

00:45:09.000 So we would do push-ups.

00:45:10.000 One day we did, I think we hiked like 14 miles and did 1,400 push-ups or something like that.

00:45:16.000 We would do sets.

00:45:17.000 Trying to blow shoulders out?

00:45:18.000 It was so fun.

00:45:19.000 What I was going to say is that what I learned from working with kids so much is that example thing.

00:45:25.000 There's nothing to compare to that as far as...

00:45:30.000 What people or kids or guys especially will respond to is that example. 1.00

00:45:36.000 You can tell them I mean, kids, they catch bullshit the fucking second it comes out of your mouth. 0.99

00:45:43.000 You know, if you're saying one thing, but you're not living it, if you're not being honest, if you're not being real about yourself, it doesn't work. 0.99

00:45:50.000 So, I mean, I think that that was a real...

00:45:53.000 You know, and I did this for five or six years, and I spent probably six, seven hundred days out doing this, and I came back from my experience just seeing this huge gap...

00:46:07.000 In our culture about role models and mentors and just regular relationships that seem pretty natural and pretty normal.

00:46:17.000 I would get into a group of these kids and there would be something there.

00:46:23.000 They would recognize something in me and I'd recognize something in them.

00:46:27.000 It's just a really cool thing to be a part of.

00:46:31.000 What did you guys do for 55 days in the woods?

00:46:34.000 So we would hike most of the day, right?

00:46:37.000 We would hike probably 8 to 15 miles a day.

00:46:40.000 Were you camping?

00:46:41.000 Yeah, yeah, backpacking.

00:46:42.000 Wow.

00:46:43.000 Backpacking, yeah.

00:46:44.000 Up on the shores of Lake Superior, so it's called the Superior Hiking Trail.

00:46:47.000 It's a 200-plus mile footpath that goes in the hills and mountains, like over Lake Superior.

00:46:54.000 So yeah, man, we would hike.

00:46:55.000 We'd swim in the lake.

00:46:58.000 At that point in time, I had this idea that I was going to ask my girlfriend to marry her.

00:47:02.000 So I was looking for, there's agates, these little jewels, stones in all the rivers.

00:47:07.000 So we spent a lot of time looking for stones.

00:47:10.000 I don't know, man.

00:47:11.000 Just hanging out, you know?

00:47:13.000 And push-ups.

00:47:15.000 And push-ups.

00:47:16.000 A lot of push-ups.

00:47:16.000 Wow.

00:47:17.000 And so a lot of conversations about the future, about life, about how to change your path.

00:47:24.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:47:25.000 Some of that.

00:47:26.000 And then a lot of times, a lot of silence too, man.

00:47:29.000 You know?

00:47:30.000 We weren't going to talk 16 hours a day at all.

00:47:33.000 Right.

00:47:33.000 You know?

00:47:33.000 It would just be too much.

00:47:36.000 But yeah, he ended up doing great, man.

00:47:38.000 I think he's off kind of killing it in life right now.

00:47:41.000 Wow.

00:47:43.000 But that's an extreme, you know, that's an extreme example.

00:47:46.000 So, now how is this organized? 0.99

00:47:47.000 His parents were like, hey, fuck up. 1.00

00:47:50.000 Time to put you in the woods. 1.00

00:47:51.000 Yeah.

00:47:52.000 Yeah, wow.

00:47:53.000 And so they had heard about it and they just felt like that would be a chance for him to break his pattern?

00:48:00.000 Sure, exactly.

00:48:02.000 That's interesting.

00:48:03.000 There was generally different categories of kids who would come to these places.

00:48:09.000 So you'd have your drug abuser, sort of out of control kid.

00:48:14.000 You'd have your internet addicted, slightly softer guy that was socially awkward.

00:48:22.000 Sometimes we had emotional outbreaks.

00:48:25.000 They kind of broke, you know, into categories.

00:48:29.000 But honestly, the thing is, the cool thing about spending that much time with people is that, you know, like, it doesn't take long to see through those behaviors to really seeing a good kid.

00:48:45.000 I've worked with hundreds if not thousands of kids and Maybe one.

00:48:52.000 One.

00:48:52.000 I can only think of one that I don't think was, like, someone I would go have a beer with or hang out with today.

00:48:58.000 You know?

00:48:59.000 Like, they're good kids.

00:49:00.000 They're really good.

00:49:00.000 They're great human beings.

00:49:01.000 I just...

00:49:03.000 Either in shitty circumstances or made a lot of bad decisions or just were confused.

00:49:07.000 I mean, whatever, you know.

00:49:08.000 I think I could have ended up there easy if I would have got busted in high school for a bunch of, you know, drinking and partying.

00:49:14.000 Well, especially if you were born into the household that they were born into.

00:49:18.000 Yeah.

00:49:19.000 One of the big things, obviously, about life is that you can't pick your parents.

00:49:24.000 No.

00:49:25.000 And you can't pick your neighborhood that you grew up in.

00:49:27.000 You don't have a say until you're an adult.

00:49:31.000 Yeah, that's what we were talking about yesterday.

00:49:33.000 So after I did the wilderness stuff, I went and I became a high school teacher in the Bronx.

00:49:39.000 I was part of the New York City teaching fellowship program.

00:49:43.000 Basically, they give you a free master's if you teach for a couple years in, you know, high need areas.

00:49:48.000 So I was an English teacher.

00:49:50.000 It's a really cool school in the southeast Bronx for a couple years.

00:49:54.000 And, you know, just that was the most challenging and probably rewarding thing that I've ever done.

00:50:06.000 So first I worked with mostly wealthy kids and some of these private pay wilderness programs and then I did a lot of stuff for correctional stuff. 0.95

00:50:14.000 So that was rural poor, you know, that was a lot of kids from reservations and just sort of No offense, but white trash type kids. 1.00

00:50:26.000 And then I moved to the inner city and worked there. 0.92

00:50:29.000 So I got a good spectrum on working with different kids.

00:50:33.000 It really just ended up that I kind of liked them all. 1.00

00:50:36.000 They're just fucking people. 0.99

00:50:38.000 Good human beings. 1.00

00:50:39.000 But what you were saying, you can't pick where you're from, man.

00:50:44.000 You can't argue how big of a difference that makes.

00:50:47.000 It's giant.

00:50:48.000 It's almost everything in terms of your future, you know?

00:50:51.000 And so many people don't realize that.

00:50:54.000 A lot of times the really fortunate ones don't realize it because they just think that everybody's got it like this or they just think that, well, my life's hard too.

00:51:03.000 You know, my life was only challenging in that we moved around a lot.

00:51:08.000 Like, my mom and my stepdad were really nice people.

00:51:12.000 Got lucky, you know?

00:51:14.000 They weren't fuck-ups. 0.99

00:51:15.000 They weren't assholes. 1.00

00:51:18.000 They didn't, you know, they didn't beat me and torture me. 0.99

00:51:21.000 You just hear such horrible, horrible stories of what parents do to their children.

00:51:28.000 And, you know, you gotta wonder what their parents did to them that started this whole path, this almost, like, unstoppable force of momentum.

00:51:38.000 Yeah.

00:51:39.000 But some of the things you were telling me about the poor kids that you worked with.

00:51:43.000 Like, yeah, so one of the kids that, just this amazing, light-filled kid, you know, comes, I don't remember how it happened, I think he came into school one morning, and, you know,

00:51:59.000 his dad had bashed his skull in with a baseball bat.

00:52:03.000 I think he got drunk and got angry and just beat the fuck out of him.

00:52:08.000 I remember that morning feeling just so hopeless and just like, you know, nothing I could do to protect this kid.

00:52:17.000 Like, I could be the best teacher, I could be the best role model and friend of this guy that I ever could be, but every night he has to go back into this just unimaginable, horrible place, you know?

00:52:31.000 And it's insidious.

00:52:32.000 There's a lot of weird ways it comes out.

00:52:33.000 There's another student in my...

00:52:37.000 A girl, her mom would basically tell her that she was always sick.

00:52:43.000 There's a name for this.

00:52:45.000 There's like a condition, I don't remember.

00:52:46.000 But where a parent needs their kids to be around so much for their own well-being somehow.

00:52:52.000 They turn them into a hypocontract?

00:52:53.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:52:54.000 Have you heard of this?

00:52:54.000 No.

00:52:55.000 Yeah, there's a name for it.

00:52:58.000 I can't remember it right now, but... 0.99

00:53:01.000 Weird shit, man. 0.99

00:53:02.000 Just weird stuff. 0.99

00:53:04.000 You know, I think there's so many people that are working so hard to do good things for people in harder circumstances.

00:53:14.000 It's like an overwhelming force.

00:53:17.000 It's so hard.

00:53:18.000 But here's the thing, I've seen it.

00:53:21.000 I've seen a bunch of those kids that I taught.

00:53:23.000 And so I taught in a school where I was their only teacher.

00:53:26.000 It was almost like a kindergarten model for high school, right?

00:53:29.000 And all the learning was based on projects they did, and they had internships.

00:53:33.000 So they didn't go from math to English to science and all that.

00:53:37.000 We just worked one-on-one.

00:53:38.000 And they kind of worked on everything at all times.

00:53:43.000 So, you know, they were my students for two entire years, and the amount of time we spent together was just really intense, and we got very close.

00:53:56.000 I'm losing my train of thought.

00:53:57.000 But yeah, so there's a lot of people trying to do good things, but it is that home life or that cultural pull trajectory...

00:54:05.000 I don't know.

00:54:07.000 I don't know what the...

00:54:09.000 I don't know how to combat it.

00:54:11.000 Well, one of those programs like the one that you were involved in might be one of the only ways to do it.

00:54:18.000 Yeah.

00:54:19.000 Or a program like that.

00:54:21.000 Something that's going to give them individualized attention and let them know, hey, there might be a light at the end of this tunnel.

00:54:27.000 There might be a way out of this.

00:54:29.000 Yeah.

00:54:29.000 Like there's nice people out there like Dan Doty that are going to help you out and he recognizes that there's people out there that need help.

00:54:36.000 Yeah.

00:54:37.000 I think?

00:54:42.000 I think?

00:54:59.000 Mexican and Dominican and Puerto Rican and black.

00:55:03.000 And not a single white kid in the entire school.

00:55:05.000 It's just not that way.

00:55:06.000 And so there's immediately this odd dynamic for me to go and teach in a location like that that there is a racial dynamic present no matter what.

00:55:18.000 My kids would tease me about how white I was all the time.

00:55:21.000 It was great.

00:55:22.000 We got past any racial barriers, or at least most racial barriers.

00:55:27.000 We were able just to see each other as human beings and work together that way.

00:55:32.000 So there is a lot of, what you just said, they get a lot of people telling them that all the time.

00:55:38.000 That there's light at the end of the tunnel, there's options, you can take a hold of this life.

00:55:43.000 But that's just words sometimes to kids.

00:55:46.000 Just lip service, you know?

00:55:48.000 And they hear that before, like, you've got to get good grades, or you've got to go to college, you've got to get a good job.

00:55:53.000 They hear all these things that don't seem to resonate.

00:55:56.000 No, because it's disconnected from the experience of life, right?

00:55:59.000 So I can go in there and say that, and I went to college, and I had a good, safe childhood and a safe place.

00:56:04.000 And I can say that, but it doesn't fucking mean anything because they go home and it's not safe. 0.83

00:56:08.000 It's just not. 0.92

00:56:08.000 And I think that's what it comes down to more than anything. 0.92

00:56:12.000 People are in a state of fight or flight constantly because it really is a safety thing.

00:56:19.000 Yeah.

00:56:20.000 I mean, it's like, remember when Ranello was talking about those deer today?

00:56:24.000 He was like, the deer, a jackrabbit, runs in front of the deer, and the deer leaps up like someone hit it with an electric shock.

00:56:31.000 Yeah.

00:56:32.000 Like, they're constantly on guard.

00:56:37.000 And that happens also with children.

00:56:39.000 Yeah.

00:56:40.000 You know, I have...

00:56:42.000 I've talked about this before.

00:56:43.000 I had a feral cat. 1.00

00:56:44.000 And that fucking cat was wild to the day he died. 1.00

00:56:48.000 I had him when he was a baby. 1.00

00:56:49.000 I got him when he was a kitten.

00:56:51.000 He was only a couple months old.

00:56:52.000 But it was already too late. 0.99

00:56:54.000 He was fucking wild. 0.98

00:56:55.000 He was just, in his mind, everything was out to get him. 0.92

00:57:00.000 Yeah, I mean, and I can't officially say this because I haven't studied it officially, but I think that there are, you know, versions, if you call it PTSD, or just stuck in the state of hypervigilance, whatever it is,

00:57:15.000 it's just coming from a place that's not safe, a place that's fucked up, and to be expected to be able to overcome that without any real... 0.74

00:57:27.000 Time or assistance to working is really unreasonable, I think. 0.95

00:57:31.000 It's just really not like...

00:57:33.000 You can't just decide.

00:57:35.000 Right.

00:57:36.000 Because it's your body.

00:57:37.000 It's somatic, you know?

00:57:38.000 It's in you.

00:57:41.000 Maybe it's your mind, maybe it's your body, maybe it's both.

00:57:43.000 But it's not like you can just say, okay, I don't want to do this anymore.

00:57:47.000 It's far more deep than that.

00:57:49.000 It's far more complicated than that.

00:57:50.000 Yeah, it's a battleship that's moving 100 miles an hour and you're expected to turn on a dime.

00:57:57.000 There's a lot of weight and momentum behind that past.

00:58:01.000 I was talking to Michael Irvin once.

00:58:03.000 I was on a flight with him.

00:58:05.000 Just randomly.

00:58:06.000 And it was all the way to Australia, so it was a long ass time.

00:58:10.000 And he and I were talking about work that he's been doing with some young kids that come from troubled houses and troubled backgrounds as well. 0.98

00:58:19.000 And he was telling me that when a child is in the womb, And the mother is experiencing intense stress from violence, from crime, bad neighborhoods, that kind of shit, domestic abuse, that kind of thing. 0.97

00:58:33.000 That the child grows up with more of a propensity for violence. 0.98

00:58:39.000 That violence becomes almost in their DNA as a response to any perceived threat.

00:58:46.000 Whether it's real or not.

00:58:48.000 And that we have to understand that these children, they're being wired for violence.

00:58:55.000 They're wired to deal with bad neighborhoods, bad situations, crime.

00:59:00.000 And it's literally a part of their genetics.

00:59:03.000 It's in them.

00:59:05.000 It's their DNA almost.

00:59:06.000 Or it is.

00:59:09.000 So the Republican, white, conservative idea that people need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, which is the cliché, right? 0.99

00:59:20.000 They need to get their shit together. 0.98

00:59:22.000 My God, is it more complicated than that. 0.99

00:59:25.000 It is, man, but here's the interesting thing.

00:59:27.000 I do think that I actually agree with that in a different way.

00:59:32.000 I think that you can never expect anybody else to do anything like that.

00:59:37.000 The way it is, you're born and raised in the way you are, and then at some point, you fully have to take responsibility for that.

00:59:46.000 No matter how shitty or great your childhood was, no matter what you're dealing with, I think that there is no one else that's going to do it for you.

00:59:54.000 So I really do think that there is a piece of truth in what they're saying.

00:59:59.000 I just don't think that...

01:00:02.000 That general mindset is nuanced or understanding enough of what people are working with that they're unrealistic about.

01:00:09.000 Yeah, they might just be like, well...

01:00:12.000 What's conveniently aloof?

01:00:14.000 They're conveniently ignorant about the circumstances that are involved in creating a child that grows up and has been in juvenile detention since they were a little kid and has been in and out of all sorts of Police custody and been in crime situations from the time they were young.

01:00:37.000 To say that you need to straighten your act up, they don't have any examples.

01:00:42.000 The examples that they see on TV might as well be them watching Iron Man.

01:00:46.000 It doesn't seem real.

01:00:48.000 It's not real.

01:00:49.000 No, and that's an issue I have with that whole debate or political discussion or however you want to put it, is that to me it's only they're talking about a situation and never is the actual conversation being had.

01:01:02.000 Conversation between people who it actually affects is rarely brought out and it's just a bunch of people looking at things from the outside and commenting and talking about it, not Actually digging into it.

01:01:16.000 It just doesn't really serve anybody.

01:01:19.000 I don't feel like it serves anybody.

01:01:21.000 Yeah, and it's also very dismissive.

01:01:24.000 It's very dismissive of other people's misfortune and not really appreciating or understanding your fortune.

01:01:32.000 You know, we're all born into totally different circumstances for the most part.

01:01:37.000 And most of us here in America, we were talking about this yesterday, that people that are in this country are so much more fortunate than someone who's born in some...

01:01:49.000 You know, terrible third world situation, like we were talking about Liberia, the reality of Liberia, which is a former slave colony.

01:02:01.000 What they did was they took American slaves that were released and they shipped them back to Africa, literally, and created this horrible, horrible environment through, you know, A bunch of different factors, but Civil War being a big one of them. 0.57

01:02:19.000 And Vice has this really insightful and amazing piece on Liberia.

01:02:24.000 I think it's Vice's Guide to Travel.

01:02:26.000 Oh my God, is it awful.

01:02:28.000 But you can't say that being born to a blue-collar white family in Cleveland Is anything remotely as bad as being a child born in Liberia. 1.00

01:02:45.000 You just can't. 0.98

01:02:46.000 And then, looking at that person, the child who was born in Cleveland, I'm sure there's a lot of kids that are born there that wish, fuck, why couldn't I have been born in New York City? 0.99

01:03:00.000 Or, fuck, why couldn't I have been... 0.99

01:03:01.000 It's... 1.00

01:03:03.000 Again, it comes back to what you were saying about being a dad and the responsibility of being a good person and being a better person.

01:03:12.000 Making and developing human beings and creating a community together with these human beings is so incredibly difficult.

01:03:22.000 And we're handed this responsibility with no instruction manual.

01:03:25.000 No, that's the thing.

01:03:26.000 No good leadership.

01:03:27.000 No instructions.

01:03:28.000 No.

01:03:29.000 You're right, man.

01:03:30.000 Well, some good leadership guys like you or some other folks out there that are doing similar things that you can find. 1.00

01:03:37.000 But man, if you don't find them, fuck. 0.97

01:03:40.000 Yeah, one thing I think is really important that you're kind of hitting out there or saying is there's like a big leap to go from... 0.99

01:03:50.000 The place of blaming others and just feeling like, oh my shitty, like look at my, look what I was in and it was really shitty.

01:03:58.000 It's a big leap to go beyond that and accept it, first of all, no matter what it is that you've got going on in your life.

01:04:06.000 And then, even a bigger leap, I think, to start taking responsibility for both yourself and other people, you know?

01:04:14.000 I think that...

01:04:15.000 I think that's what it is.

01:04:18.000 Not that it's missing, because it's out there, but I just think it could be...

01:04:21.000 Like, we've got time in our lives, you know?

01:04:24.000 Like, we're doing okay in general in this country.

01:04:26.000 I think we could take more time for each other in that way, just across the board.

01:04:32.000 And whether that's in our schools or whatever it is, I don't know.

01:04:35.000 I don't have the answers, but...

01:04:37.000 Well, you have some answers, and I think you've got some great ideas, but I think one of the things that we talked about yesterday was...

01:04:45.000 The amount of children that you had communicated with, that you had taught that found themselves in these horrific situations that you had a kind of experience with them.

01:04:57.000 And I think that...

01:05:00.000 Human beings today, at some point in time, we have to realize that we are some sort of a super organism.

01:05:09.000 We are all connected.

01:05:11.000 And if this kid who grows up in this horrible environment and is just abused and Subject to all sorts of violence.

01:05:21.000 That kid's going to go perpetuate more of the same if no one steps in.

01:05:25.000 If no one offers some solid example that you can do better.

01:05:31.000 Some sort of... 1.00

01:05:34.000 Just some pathway through the bullshit. 1.00

01:05:37.000 Bullshit's not a strong enough word. 0.99

01:05:41.000 I've spent a lot of time thinking about and reading about and studying both rites of passage in different parts of the world, but then also just this really simple concept of mentoring or mentorship or role models. 0.97

01:05:55.000 I think I got real lucky.

01:05:57.000 Not only did I have a good family and good parents, amazing parents, I have this string of role models that I had from little kids.

01:06:06.000 We've talked about this briefly before, but my first one was my Taekwondo instructor when I was a kid, Master Mike.

01:06:11.000 I was super shy, super very soft as a kid, and then this dude in a sports car drove into Drake, North Dakota, and I started taking Taekwondo with him, and he was just this...

01:06:26.000 Badass, brash, strong, confident guy.

01:06:29.000 Man, I looked up to him.

01:06:30.000 I attribute a lot of the good qualities I value by myself, both to him and to Taekwondo itself, because I think it teaches great things to kids.

01:06:42.000 So he was a mentor, and then in high school I had this farmer.

01:06:46.000 I worked on a pig farm.

01:06:47.000 His name is John Wiersma. 1.00

01:06:50.000 And we didn't talk about shit. 0.99

01:06:52.000 He didn't fill me full of wisdom. 0.99

01:06:54.000 What we did was just work together.

01:06:56.000 We worked side by side. 1.00

01:06:57.000 We like shuttled pig shit and dumped it on the field over and over and over. 1.00

01:07:01.000 I went to college. 0.99

01:07:02.000 I had this great mentor who sort of, you know, nonchalantly took me under his wing and kind of on and on throughout my life, man.

01:07:10.000 I don't know.

01:07:12.000 I've spent a lot of time thinking about it and I really, I just really wish that for people or want that for people, you know, because you can't rely on your parents to give you everything you need in this life. 0.51

01:07:23.000 It's just, it's too much pressure for Well, also I think, as we were talking about earlier, their parents didn't know what the fuck they were doing, and their parents' parents didn't know what the fuck they were doing, and for a lot of us, that's, you know, that's the reality that we find ourselves being born into.

01:07:41.000 But I think... 0.95

01:07:43.000 With doing some of the things that you've done and also with the amount of data and information that's available today, I think we have a chance of affecting our society and our culture and the way we communicate with each other and just who we are as a species.

01:08:03.000 This crazy, weird, super organism of human beings.

01:08:07.000 We're in a better position to change that than ever before. 1.00

01:08:12.000 Like, my grandparents came over from Italy and Ireland on a fucking boat. 0.99

01:08:16.000 Nobody knew what the hell was going on. 0.99

01:08:17.000 Their parents didn't know shit when they brought them over here. 0.98

01:08:19.000 They just heard there was a better chance. 0.99

01:08:21.000 There was an opportunity.

01:08:23.000 I mean, they might have saw a photo of what New York looked like, you know?

01:08:27.000 They might have.

01:08:28.000 And they took a chance and they came over here. 0.97

01:08:30.000 The difference between them And the kind of experience and the kind of access to information that your children are going to have or my children are going to have is fucking profound. 0.98

01:08:42.000 Yeah, man. 0.96

01:08:43.000 You know?

01:08:43.000 And I think we're a part of something that's really interesting right now in that the human race is becoming hyper-aware of all the variables that are fucking it up.

01:08:55.000 And one of the big ones, of course, is the abuse and mishandling and misraising of children. 0.61

01:09:02.000 Yeah, man.

01:09:03.000 So yeah, to that point, there's this thing that I've been paying attention to that I think is happening.

01:09:09.000 So as we have more information, as things happen faster, as all of this compounds and things go faster, faster, faster, I think that the impact of slowing down becomes...

01:09:21.000 Very, very valuable.

01:09:22.000 Very, very quickly.

01:09:24.000 So, you know, we're talking about all these wilderness experiences.

01:09:26.000 I also bring up like meditation or any of these things.

01:09:30.000 I think that as other things speed up, I think that These things, like, have the power to just smack you across your face and, like, change things fast, you know?

01:09:43.000 And I don't know, this has just been observation for 10 years or so, but I think that, you know, 150 years ago or whatever, in the western United States, if we had slow lives, I don't think we would have had a huge impact by going and camping for a week.

01:09:57.000 But today, when you're pulled out of your crazy digital electronic life and you go back and you feel that human simplicity for a little bit of time, I think the combination of the two offers a really powerful place, a really crazy impression.

01:10:12.000 Because if you can get that awareness and sort of the impact of slowing down, compounded with all of the information and the power and everything that we have, So I think we're on the verge of a very ripe place.

01:10:26.000 I think it's a time where You know, people can really change themselves a lot quicker or maybe even a lot more than they think is.

01:10:35.000 That's another thing.

01:10:36.000 I would love for people just to think or believe that things could be different, that they could change, you know?

01:10:42.000 Because, I mean, that's what I've been involved in for so long.

01:10:46.000 And it's just, it is possible, you know?

01:10:48.000 Well, I think also any kind of a trip, whether it's a meditative trip or even just a camping trip or...

01:10:55.000 Something where you have that opportunity to sort of reset and reassess.

01:10:59.000 It gives you sovereignty.

01:11:01.000 It gives you personal sovereignty.

01:11:03.000 Instead of just being caught up in the momentum.

01:11:06.000 A buddy of mine, my friend Ari Shafir, again, bringing him up again.

01:11:10.000 It was with another buddy of mine, Big Jay Oakerson, and they were watching this couple make out through a window.

01:11:17.000 They were doing a podcast, and they were on the roof, and they were watching this couple through the window.

01:11:23.000 This couple were making out, and then in the middle of making out, they started checking their phones.

01:11:30.000 I mean, this is what's going on today.

01:11:32.000 That's kind of sad. 0.99

01:11:33.000 It's kind of sad, but maybe they both suck in bed for the better.

01:11:37.000 But, you know, you've got to not just have all this access to data, but also have the ability to decide what you take in and what you don't take in. 0.79

01:11:51.000 I think that's...

01:11:51.000 We're passing the wildlife viewing area.

01:11:55.000 Doesn't look too well.

01:11:56.000 I think they're talking about the humans that live here.

01:12:01.000 In the middle of nowhere.

01:12:03.000 Yeah, I think it's kind of a supercharged time for that, man.

01:12:06.000 And it's cool to see people literally change their lives.

01:12:10.000 One other thing I'm involved in is I started a men's group in Bozeman, where I live in Montana.

01:12:15.000 And I've been a part of men's groups for a while, probably six or seven years.

01:12:20.000 I think it's something that's really not understood or really not even known about.

01:12:24.000 But really all it is, it's a group of guys who get together to really practice being completely real and...

01:12:33.000 Really clear all the bullshit out of the way and it's been incredibly helpful for me.

01:12:39.000 Where was I going with that?

01:12:40.000 Oh yeah, but just that I've been party or privy to so many people just sort of like just changing, you know?

01:12:47.000 Being a lot more fucking happy and a lot more productive and I think it's easy to get stuck in thinking that things just are how they are.

01:12:55.000 The sovereignty is huge, man. 0.91

01:12:57.000 That's the biggest thing.

01:12:58.000 Like owning what you feel, owning what you want, Owning who you are.

01:13:02.000 All of that. 0.93

01:13:03.000 Well, it's also a lot of times people, they get out of high school, they go into college, they get out of college, they get a job, they get a job, they start their career, they push forth in their career, and before they know it, they're fucking 40 years old, and they can't stop! 0.93

01:13:16.000 Yeah.

01:13:16.000 The momentum of their life, and they're not enjoying it.

01:13:21.000 No, they're desperate, dude.

01:13:22.000 They're quietly desperate.

01:13:24.000 Yeah, wasn't that Thoreau?

01:13:25.000 Most men lead lives of quiet desperation. 1.00

01:13:28.000 It's such a great fucking quote. 0.99

01:13:30.000 So why aren't we teaching every 17-year-old kid who's coming out of high school, like, hey, that's probably your future, you know? 0.99

01:13:38.000 Once you get on top of this.

01:13:40.000 Well, you know how you teach people that?

01:13:42.000 Like this.

01:13:43.000 They listen to podcasts.

01:13:45.000 They hear people talk. 0.97

01:13:46.000 They realize that their parents didn't have any fucking awesome information. 0.87

01:13:52.000 And look, a lot of parents, they mean the right thing when they tell them, get a good job. 0.97

01:13:58.000 Don't take any chances.

01:14:00.000 You know, well, y'all, you got a dream, huh?

01:14:02.000 Yeah, well, the dreams don't pay the bills.

01:14:04.000 Right. 1.00

01:14:05.000 They're not doing that because they're assholes for the most part. 1.00

01:14:08.000 They're doing that because that's been their experience in their life and they don't want their kid to be a fucking idiot. 1.00

01:14:14.000 And they don't understand. 1.00

01:14:16.000 They don't know. 1.00

01:14:19.000 Yeah, so listen up, fuckers. 1.00

01:14:20.000 Like, look around. 1.00

01:14:22.000 Look around and notice how many adults either have shitty lives they don't like or are, like, going through massive amounts of self-help or therapy or all these things at old ages and not, you know...

01:14:35.000 Where do you think antidepressants come from? 0.97

01:14:37.000 Do that many people have broken brains?

01:14:42.000 I'm not denying that there's most certainly quite a few people that have natural chemical imbalances and pharmaceutical drugs can benefit them.

01:14:50.000 That's true.

01:14:51.000 Absolutely.

01:14:51.000 No doubt about it.

01:14:52.000 But I know for a fact there's a lot of people who get medicated Because they fucking hate their lives. 0.98

01:14:58.000 Instead of picking a life that you enjoy or working towards developing your life into something that you'd enjoy. 0.99

01:15:07.000 Some of the most satisfying email and tweet messages and Facebook things that I've ever gotten is people that have listened to this podcast and said, you know what, I realize I am 36 and I've always wanted to do this and I'm going to quit my fucking job and I'm going to figure out how to do that.

01:15:25.000 I'm going to work towards that.

01:15:26.000 I'm going to save up some money. 0.98

01:15:27.000 I'm going to fucking, whatever it is, I'm going to make pottery. 0.99

01:15:30.000 I'm going to start fucking selling my paintings. 1.00

01:15:33.000 Whatever the fuck it is. 1.00

01:15:35.000 Everybody's got a thing. 1.00

01:15:37.000 And if you don't have a thing, find a fucking thing. 0.99

01:15:40.000 But you can't think that that whole, like, work, get a good job, get your benefits, and don't do anything stupid because you don't want to get fired. 1.00

01:15:52.000 That life is bullshit. 1.00

01:15:54.000 That is a bullshit life. 1.00

01:15:55.000 Totally. 1.00

01:15:56.000 If you've got a good job that you enjoy, that's a great life.

01:16:00.000 And then your job doesn't feel like a job. 0.93

01:16:02.000 I mean, even though it can be challenging and difficult, if you can find something you actually enjoy doing, your life will be immeasurably better than if you're just grinding it out, waiting for that 5 o'clock fucking buzzer to come. 0.95

01:16:15.000 Right.

01:16:16.000 And the way I like to talk about it, though, that I think is a really important difference, is to be Descriptive rather than prescriptive.

01:16:24.000 Because if you try to force yourself into...

01:16:26.000 If you're trying to be Joe Rogan or if you're trying to be anybody else out there or you want that life, good luck with that in the long run. 0.97

01:16:34.000 I feel like you have to sink into yourself and just actually fucking be who you are. 0.98

01:16:39.000 Like that. 0.98

01:16:40.000 It's hard to find though, right?

01:16:41.000 It is.

01:16:41.000 It's hard to find who you are.

01:16:42.000 It totally is.

01:16:43.000 But I think that's your job.

01:16:45.000 Until you are who you are, that's your job.

01:16:49.000 And along the way, don't be embarrassed if you're pretending to be somebody else.

01:16:51.000 Because I think we all did that.

01:16:53.000 When you're trying to find yourself.

01:16:54.000 Totally.

01:16:55.000 I mean, I most certainly have been massively influenced by a lot of people that I respected and listened to them or watched them or saw their work or whatever it is.

01:17:06.000 That's okay.

01:17:07.000 As long as you eventually figure out who you are.

01:17:10.000 And it kind of happened to you before you even know it.

01:17:13.000 When I was young, man, I never felt very secure. 0.78

01:17:17.000 And I always was like, God, I wish I could fucking be someone like all these people that I admire. 0.80

01:17:24.000 I wish I could figure out how to be me instead of wishing I was all these other people. 0.90

01:17:29.000 Somewhere along the line, if you pursue what you actually enjoy, it kind of happens.

01:17:35.000 Totally.

01:17:35.000 But it's not an easy process.

01:17:38.000 It's a process of self-reflection and you've got to be honest.

01:17:43.000 That's where these moments that you're talking about, like meditative moments or moments where you can go to the mountains and be by yourself, those moments are huge because they give you this Opportunity to maybe examine your ideas a little more closely instead of just constantly being inundated with other people's opinions about what you should do.

01:18:05.000 You've got to have your own experiences, man.

01:18:06.000 You've just got to live and you've got to experience as much as you can, whether that's A trip around the world or traveling or to a different place or a hallucinogenic experience done in a safe way or whatever it is.

01:18:19.000 I just feel like you gotta, yeah, to find yourself, you gotta test the waters.

01:18:25.000 You gotta test the waters.

01:18:26.000 All over the place. 0.99

01:18:27.000 And if you're a boy in this fucking town that we're driving through, good luck. 1.00

01:18:31.000 In and out! 1.00

01:18:32.000 Cash!

01:18:33.000 Payday loans!

01:18:34.000 Man, I grew up in a place way smaller and shittier than this.

01:18:37.000 Really?

01:18:38.000 Look at you, Dan Doty.

01:18:39.000 You made it through.

01:18:40.000 600 people, right?

01:18:41.000 600. How many of them you fucked? 1.00

01:18:44.000 We left when I was in sixth grade, so unfortunately zero. 1.00

01:18:48.000 You didn't fuck any of them, huh? 0.99

01:18:49.000 No, unfortunately not. 1.00

01:18:50.000 Probably better off that way. 1.00

01:18:51.000 Once you fuck people, they think you owe them something. 1.00

01:18:54.000 Jesus, can't you just leave me alone? 1.00

01:18:57.000 Whoa, dude.

01:19:01.000 Yeah.

01:19:02.000 I got super lucky, man.

01:19:04.000 So yeah, I grew up in a...

01:19:06.000 Tiny little place, 10 miles from the Canadian border in North Dakota.

01:19:09.000 Just, like, nothing going on, you know?

01:19:11.000 Look at this place.

01:19:12.000 Gasoline Alley Speedway Casino.

01:19:15.000 There's a casino in there.

01:19:17.000 That's a casino and a 24-hour gas station. 1.00

01:19:20.000 Fuck! 1.00

01:19:21.000 You're gonna hit it big there. 1.00

01:19:23.000 Yeah.

01:19:23.000 Cash loans on car titles.

01:19:25.000 That's the fucking title of the goddamn store. 1.00

01:19:29.000 Cash loans on car titles. 1.00

01:19:31.000 How many people have given up their cars here for a loan?

01:19:35.000 Is this Fallon?

01:19:36.000 I don't know.

01:19:37.000 Let's not even say what it is.

01:19:39.000 Oh, okay. 1.00

01:19:40.000 Poor bastards. 1.00

01:19:41.000 Wherever this is. 1.00

01:19:42.000 Look at this.

01:19:43.000 Stockman's Casino.

01:19:45.000 Spin and win Saturdays.

01:19:47.000 Come play!

01:19:49.000 Yeah.

01:19:49.000 A lot of people here.

01:19:50.000 Cigarette smoking going on there.

01:19:51.000 A lot of cigarette smoking.

01:19:53.000 A lot of people here can describe what a gun tastes like in your mouth.

01:20:00.000 I bet it doesn't taste good.

01:20:01.000 It doesn't taste good, but it seems like if you know that that's a possibility What a strange place this is.

01:20:11.000 There's a lot of these places that we drove through, like how about that one wild west town that was established in 1865, I don't remember the name of it, but they had the old buildings there that were there from 1865 that were in ruins in various state of disarray and decay,

01:20:29.000 surrounded by these more new modern ruins.

01:20:34.000 That people were living in.

01:20:36.000 Yeah, the old ones look nicer than the new ones.

01:20:38.000 Yeah.

01:20:39.000 Yeah, they did.

01:20:40.000 Because they got something.

01:20:42.000 There's some class.

01:20:44.000 That's weird about like...

01:20:48.000 Mobile homes and like really shitty aluminum siding and stuff, you know no one's ever going to be pumped to find that someday.

01:20:56.000 No.

01:20:56.000 You mean like a hundred years from now or a thousand years from now?

01:20:59.000 Like if you find an old barn, like that old barn that we were passing, that little shack or whatever the fuck it was, that cool old cabin of distressed wood, you look at that and you go, wow, that's kind of badass. 0.96

01:21:10.000 No one's going to look at some shitty old... 1.00

01:21:13.000 Aluminum-sided, fucked-up house. 0.99

01:21:16.000 So what you're saying is quality spans time. 0.99

01:21:18.000 That American flag's a little too big for my liking.

01:21:21.000 And it's at half-mast.

01:21:22.000 Did somebody die while we were in the woods? 1.00

01:21:25.000 Some shit go down? 0.99

01:21:26.000 I'm sure a lot of people died when we were in the woods. 1.00

01:21:27.000 But when a flag's at half-mast, that's what it means, right?

01:21:30.000 Something must have happened.

01:21:31.000 We missed something. 0.99

01:21:32.000 We probably don't know a lot of fucking things that went down for seven days. 0.98

01:21:36.000 That's got to be a good thing. 0.98

01:21:38.000 We know that two Olympic swimmers got robbed at gunpoint in Brazil.

01:21:42.000 Way to go.

01:21:43.000 Do you feel better knowing that though?

01:21:45.000 No.

01:21:46.000 No.

01:21:47.000 I feel better that I was in the woods and I wasn't in a cab in Brazil with a gun pointed in my head. 1.00

01:21:56.000 Poor bastards. 1.00

01:21:57.000 But, no, I mean, there's a lot of... 1.00

01:21:59.000 We have to...

01:22:00.000 Look, we should know that that's possible and that people can get robbed.

01:22:04.000 Like, when you hear about terrible things in the world, the good news or the good fact about that is now you know those things without having...

01:22:13.000 It's not like you live your life in some sort of a Mormon missionary factory and then they send you out there to the awful parts of the world... 1.00

01:22:21.000 And all of a sudden, you know, you're in some third world country and you don't realize it's being run by a brutal dictator.

01:22:27.000 And what's a dictator?

01:22:28.000 Like, you know, North Korea?

01:22:31.000 What is it?

01:22:31.000 Like, it's good to know that North Korea is out there.

01:22:34.000 There's some Kim Jong-un type dudes in the world.

01:22:38.000 You ever been robbed?

01:22:40.000 Yes, when I was little.

01:22:41.000 When I was a kid.

01:22:43.000 Not a long time.

01:22:44.000 Definitely not at gunpoint.

01:22:47.000 I got in the wrong cab once on the border of Ecuador and Peru and got stuck up.

01:22:51.000 They call it soft kidnapped.

01:22:54.000 Where this other dude got in the back of the taxi and they started driving out in the jungle. 1.00

01:22:59.000 Oh, shit. 0.99

01:23:00.000 Asking me questions about politics and my family and all this stuff. 1.00

01:23:04.000 Oh, my God.

01:23:05.000 I didn't really know.

01:23:06.000 I was down there learning Spanish.

01:23:08.000 I didn't know it very well yet. 0.98

01:23:10.000 I basically said, listen, guys, I fucking got nothing. 0.96

01:23:12.000 I had like 40 bucks. 0.98

01:23:14.000 Right.

01:23:14.000 So they drove me to an ATM. Right.

01:23:17.000 Like a guy got like 80 bucks more out of him, or out, and then gave it to him and then ran, like fucking just took off. 0.98

01:23:24.000 Wow. 0.88

01:23:25.000 That's pretty sketchy.

01:23:26.000 That's another thing that happened in Brazil recently.

01:23:27.000 A Brazilian jiu-jitsu student from Australia, I believe, was out there.

01:23:32.000 He got kidnapped by these cops.

01:23:33.000 Cops took him to two ATM machines and made him withdraw money.

01:23:37.000 Yeah?

01:23:38.000 Yeah.

01:23:38.000 Cops.

01:23:40.000 Cops.

01:23:41.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:23:41.000 Fuck, man. 1.00

01:23:44.000 You want to trust them. 1.00

01:23:45.000 But you know what, man? 0.99

01:23:46.000 It's like, again, what the fuck happened to them? 0.98

01:23:50.000 What happened to these people that are robbing these people? 0.99

01:23:54.000 Something bad.

01:23:56.000 It's not necessarily 100% their fault that that's who they've become.

01:24:01.000 I'm not taking away ownership of their own actions, but you've got to think about the development of their ideas, how it happened.

01:24:12.000 I had this friend of mine on the podcast recently, and he was talking about...

01:24:16.000 He grew up in...

01:24:17.000 His name is Byron Bowers.

01:24:19.000 He grew up in a really poor area of Georgia.

01:24:23.000 And a lot of crime where he was. 0.98

01:24:25.000 Just a lot of, like, really fucked up family environments. 0.89

01:24:30.000 And he was saying that when we thought about, like, robbing something, like going to a store and stealing something, we didn't think it was a bad thing. 0.93

01:24:38.000 That's how you get it.

01:24:39.000 That's how you get things.

01:24:40.000 You gotta go get it.

01:24:41.000 You gotta go steal.

01:24:42.000 And that it was just, that's what you grew up with.

01:24:45.000 Now, he's a successful comedian, he's doing well, and he can step back and have the hindsight vision of his current state and realize, oh, that was why I thought that way.

01:25:01.000 And I'm sure these guys have robbed you. 0.99

01:25:04.000 I mean, they didn't have a fucking pretty upbringing. 0.98

01:25:07.000 It's not like they went from a gated community to robbing people in Peru. 0.98

01:25:10.000 No, it's not like they were doing it because they were just morally poor people, you know?

01:25:14.000 I mean, I don't think so.

01:25:17.000 Maybe they were, but what made them that way?

01:25:19.000 Yeah, sure.

01:25:19.000 I mean, think about your own little boy.

01:25:22.000 He's two months old.

01:25:23.000 You get to shape what that boy becomes as well as he becomes a man.

01:25:28.000 And someone did that to the guy who robbed you in Peru.

01:25:33.000 That's how it goes.

01:25:35.000 It really sort of highlights the bizarre nature of humans raising humans.

01:25:41.000 We should really be raised by robots.

01:25:44.000 We should.

01:25:45.000 Yeah, someone should come along and just make the perfect human razor. 0.97

01:25:48.000 No, obviously not.

01:25:50.000 I'm sure you're going to do a great job, but for people whose parents are going to do a shitty job, I wonder if they're going to come up with technology one day, and I think they will, that will be able to install better memories and a better pattern of behavior into a person's brain.

01:26:06.000 Almost like they're going to be able to defrag your hard drive.

01:26:08.000 Sure.

01:26:09.000 You mean just like with a click of a switch, basically?

01:26:11.000 Yeah, like hook you up to...

01:26:13.000 Like say if somebody gave you a computer, right?

01:26:15.000 But it has a virus on it. 0.99

01:26:17.000 It's all fucked up. 1.00

01:26:17.000 Every time you check your email, it sends you dick pictures and takes you to Russian escort sites. 1.00

01:26:22.000 You're like, you motherfuckers, what'd you do to my phone? 1.00

01:26:25.000 Your computer. 1.00

01:26:26.000 Your computer's fucked, right? 1.00

01:26:27.000 It's doomed. 0.99

01:26:28.000 But if you bring it down to the computer store, the guy can go, oh, you got a virus.

01:26:32.000 Here's what we're going to do.

01:26:33.000 We're going to...

01:26:35.000 Wipe your hard drive clean.

01:26:37.000 Reinstall your operating system.

01:26:39.000 And then I'll back up your crucial files and add them later.

01:26:42.000 Yeah, sure.

01:26:43.000 That's got to be the future of human beings.

01:26:47.000 I think you're totally right.

01:26:48.000 But I think that there's some things that are acting in that way already.

01:26:53.000 Participate in your child's life.

01:26:54.000 Even if it's uncomfortable.

01:26:55.000 That's it, man. 0.99

01:26:56.000 What the fuck is that? 0.99

01:26:57.000 They're sharing the message. 1.00

01:26:58.000 No, they're sharing the message.

01:26:59.000 I know, but what is that?

01:27:00.000 If it's uncomfortable.

01:27:02.000 That's a billboard here in the middle of nowhere.

01:27:06.000 Participate in your child's life even if it's uncomfortable. 0.99

01:27:09.000 Who the fuck sees that billboard and goes, you know what? 0.99

01:27:12.000 I'm going to stop ignoring my kids and doing meth. 1.00

01:27:16.000 I'm going to participate even if it's uncomfortable because I need my meth. 1.00

01:27:21.000 Well, fuck, man. 1.00

01:27:21.000 If that sign makes it happen for one fucking kid. 1.00

01:27:24.000 Yeah, you're right. 0.99

01:27:27.000 There's a lot of recent research and study that has happened specifically with PTSD and in that realm that shows how memories and our experiences when we're young and older,

01:27:44.000 how they truly are stored in our body and that there are It's not psychology in the sense of just talk therapy or just figuring things out or analyzing anything.

01:28:02.000 It's much more body-based.

01:28:06.000 So the idea is that if there's an experience that happens, The natural human range is to, if it's overwhelming, right?

01:28:14.000 You fight, you run, or flight, or you freeze.

01:28:19.000 And it's the freezing that These people will argue that things literally get locked and etched into your bodies.

01:28:28.000 Either your cells or your musculature.

01:28:30.000 I don't know.

01:28:31.000 Wherever it is.

01:28:32.000 But that through processes of awareness and relaxation and being able to go into that, you really can open and release a lot of that.

01:28:40.000 So it's not an automatic hit a button, defrag the entire thing.

01:28:43.000 But there are things that people do that truly work in that way and in that direction.

01:28:49.000 And it's...

01:28:51.000 Not mainstream at all.

01:28:53.000 I think it will be one day.

01:28:55.000 I actually really think it will be.

01:28:57.000 But I think that there's proof now that things are more malleable.

01:29:01.000 Our memories are more malleable.

01:29:04.000 Our set patterns, although they're very firm, can be shifted.

01:29:09.000 I think there's a lot of hope in that.

01:29:11.000 I think it's really cool.

01:29:12.000 I don't feel like that's an accepted viewpoint at this point.

01:29:16.000 Well, I think it's being more and more accepted and I think people are understanding now more and more that there's a method that the human mind has sort of undergone in order to take these memories in in the first place.

01:29:29.000 And if there's a way to re-examine those initial ideas and form new ideas based on better data and a better understanding of how your mind works.

01:29:42.000 Very few people know how their mind works.

01:29:44.000 They just know that I get mad when this happens or this pisses me off.

01:29:50.000 One thing that's a beautiful idea that has been going around is Look at something when it happens and decide how to make that a positive for you and decide how to give that thing meaning because nothing truly has any meaning other than the meaning that you give it and the meaning that What I might have to something might be very different than you would have for the exact same experience.

01:30:19.000 And we don't even know who's right or wrong until you look at where that path takes you.

01:30:24.000 And I might look at it and go, you know what?

01:30:26.000 Dan Doty was right.

01:30:28.000 I should have just let that brush off my shoulders.

01:30:29.000 Look, he did, and now he's doing great. 0.99

01:30:32.000 Me, I'm still carrying around that one fucked up experience. 0.97

01:30:35.000 I mean, there's people that are still repeating arguments that they had in the ninth grade while they're in their car. 1.00

01:30:41.000 They're sitting there going, this motherfucker thinks he can get away with that? 1.00

01:30:44.000 I'll kick his ass. 1.00

01:30:45.000 I'll go fucking find him right now. 1.00

01:30:47.000 Did you say that to my girl? 0.99

01:30:48.000 Yeah.

01:30:49.000 You know, there's a lot of stuff that we carry around in our brains, and we don't know why it's even there.

01:30:55.000 It's just bouncing around.

01:30:56.000 And you've got to do a clean-up, like a defrag.

01:30:59.000 Yeah.

01:31:00.000 I think one of the best tools to begin that entire process is simple mindfulness practices. 0.99

01:31:06.000 So what that means is that when something fucked up happens and you're going to immediately have that knee-jerk reaction, all it is is that you give it a little fucking space. 0.99

01:31:16.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:31:16.000 And you let it be there. 0.99

01:31:17.000 And then you can decide to freak out or do whatever you want.

01:31:20.000 Give it a lot of space.

01:31:21.000 Yeah.

01:31:21.000 Give it a lot of space and think about it.

01:31:24.000 Don't let the momentum of every event run your life.

01:31:28.000 Because you'll just be bouncing from one catastrophe to the next.

01:31:34.000 And mindfulness is like a term that gets really bandied about a lot lately, but I think the way you're describing it is very important.

01:31:41.000 Examine these things.

01:31:43.000 Yeah, it is an overused term and it's a misunderstood term, but I think in a very simple practical way, it's just...

01:31:53.000 Just being aware of what's happening.

01:31:55.000 And being in the moment.

01:31:57.000 Exactly.

01:31:57.000 Being in the moment.

01:31:58.000 Don't live in the past thinking about the argument that you got in the ninth grade.

01:32:01.000 Don't think about your future only.

01:32:03.000 Think about this moment right now.

01:32:05.000 Because this is what you have. 0.98

01:32:07.000 Look, you and I are in this car driving down this godforsaken shithole highway. 1.00

01:32:11.000 We could get hit in the head with a fucking meteor before this podcast even makes it to the internet. 1.00

01:32:15.000 We don't know. 0.99

01:32:16.000 We're assuming right now as we speak that eventually this is going to get out.

01:32:19.000 But might not.

01:32:21.000 Might not.

01:32:22.000 I like what you said about, you know, taking things as learning opportunities, you know, in general, that just anything in life that happens to you, whether it's good or bad, is an opportunity you can capitalize on.

01:32:34.000 Just because you can learn from it, you know?

01:32:36.000 You can.

01:32:37.000 It's just, it's hard to break free of the patterns that you used to have.

01:32:40.000 That's where I really advocate Self-help books. 0.98

01:32:44.000 Even though a lot of people think self-help books are bullshit. 1.00

01:32:47.000 You know why they're bullshit? 1.00

01:32:48.000 Because most people don't really listen. 0.99

01:32:51.000 They don't do anything to try to change the pattern of behavior that they're stuck in.

01:32:57.000 They just read the book and go, oh...

01:33:00.000 And they don't do anything.

01:33:02.000 You've got to do something about it. 0.96

01:33:03.000 But being inspired, you know, even sometimes a fucking really good movie can change your life. 0.97

01:33:10.000 Oh, yeah. 0.95

01:33:10.000 Because it'll make a little incremental change in a certain direction. 0.95

01:33:14.000 And then over time, that could be a gigantic factor in determining your happiness or your unhappiness, depending on, like, how you choose to behave and think.

01:33:24.000 Yeah.

01:33:25.000 I think there's a big stigma too against self-help. 0.99

01:33:29.000 I think for guys especially, but probably for everybody, that we just got to get over that shit. 0.99

01:33:35.000 Yeah, we got to get over that. 0.99

01:33:37.000 It's got to be okay.

01:33:39.000 I don't know. 0.93

01:33:40.000 Because all of that self-help, what the fuck, spiritual type stuff that's made fun of, made fun of for good reasons, but there's some things in there that...

01:33:55.000 That aren't all that weird and are just incredibly helpful. 0.94

01:33:58.000 Giannis Patel is calling us.

01:34:03.000 Don't we get...

01:34:04.000 No, I was... 1.00

01:34:05.000 Fuck you. 1.00

01:34:06.000 I'm hanging up on him. 1.00

01:34:07.000 I was gonna talk to him and say something silly, but...

01:34:10.000 We're in a podcast, Yanni.

01:34:12.000 I hope you understand. 0.99

01:34:13.000 60 miles outside of Reno, wherever the fuck we are. 0.98

01:34:17.000 We're headed to the metropolis of Reno, Nevada. 0.99

01:34:22.000 Andrew Dice Clay was here the day before we left.

01:34:26.000 The day we were leaving, yeah.

01:34:28.000 I was going to call him and say hi.

01:34:31.000 But we had to drive five hours into the middle of nowhere.

01:34:36.000 Um...

01:34:39.000 So, let's wrap this thing up.

01:34:41.000 Let's bring it on back home.

01:34:42.000 But I think your life experiences and what you're trying to do is very noble, dude.

01:34:47.000 And I think what you're trying to do and what you have done is very exceptional.

01:34:52.000 And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to do this with you.

01:34:55.000 Because the stories that you were telling me over this past week and all the other times that we've hung out together over the past few years, since I met you in 2012, was that a cop?

01:35:05.000 You hit the brakes for the cops.

01:35:06.000 The fuzz, baby.

01:35:07.000 Is that a cop?

01:35:09.000 Nope.

01:35:10.000 Those stories are powerful, man.

01:35:17.000 I think it's nice for people to know there's people like you out there.

01:35:21.000 Thanks, man.

01:35:22.000 I appreciate that.

01:35:24.000 So, anything else you'd like to say to the world?

01:35:26.000 Because it's not...

01:35:27.000 I used to say America, and then people in Europe got mad at me.

01:35:29.000 I don't think so, no.

01:35:31.000 That's it. 1.00

01:35:31.000 Dan Doty has spoken, you fucks. 1.00

01:35:33.000 So, Dan is most likely going to start his own podcast someday. 0.99

01:35:38.000 And I know people are like, God damn it, Rogan. 0.64

01:35:41.000 You're always trying to get people to start podcasts. 1.00

01:35:43.000 It's not even my idea, you fucking assholes. 1.00

01:35:47.000 That's Dan Toney's idea. 1.00

01:35:48.000 He wants to do a podcast and I think if he did one it would be awesome.

01:35:52.000 So hopefully you will do that and I'll have you on again when you're launching that and we'll let everybody know about that.

01:35:58.000 Thanks man.

01:35:58.000 Appreciate it.

01:35:59.000 Alright my brother, thank you so much and thank you everybody for listening and that's it.

01:36:05.000 We're done.

01:36:06.000 See ya.

01:36:06.000 Bye bye.

The Joe Rogan Experience - August 18, 2016

Joe Rogan Experience #834 - Dan Doty

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