The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #914 - Ryan Callaghan & Kenton Carruth

00:00:00.000 That's why you have a producer.

00:00:01.000 Jamie's on the ball. 0.99

00:00:03.000 Yeah, get that sucker right up to you. 1.00

00:00:05.000 Just pull it. 0.99

00:00:06.000 Me too.

00:00:06.000 Move it around.

00:00:07.000 Bring it to you.

00:00:08.000 You don't want to feel uncomfortable. 1.00

00:00:09.000 These chairs are shit, huh? 0.99

00:00:11.000 They're very nice. 1.00

00:00:12.000 Ooh, yeah.

00:00:13.000 We're live?

00:00:13.000 Oh, we're live, live, live, live, live, live.

00:00:16.000 I'm here with my good pal, Ryan Callahan.

00:00:19.000 How are you, buddy?

00:00:19.000 I'm doing swell.

00:00:20.000 How are you doing?

00:00:21.000 And his good pal, Kenton Kruth.

00:00:23.000 I've met you before at the First Light booth at the SHOT Show.

00:00:26.000 That was the first time I met you, right?

00:00:27.000 I think so.

00:00:28.000 I think that's it.

00:00:28.000 Yeah.

00:00:30.000 I wanted to have you guys on, first of all, because I love your company.

00:00:34.000 You guys have a great company.

00:00:35.000 First Light makes really cool hunting clothes, outdoor clothes.

00:00:38.000 You started out with merino wool, which I think...

00:00:41.000 Before I went with Ryan and Steve Rinella, I really had no idea about the properties of merino wool.

00:00:48.000 I didn't know that it keeps you from stinking, that it really retains heat while you're wet.

00:00:55.000 It's got so many awesome properties to it. 0.99

00:00:57.000 Like if you go out, for people that don't know, that don't go in the outdoors, but if you go out and you walk and it's cold out and you hike like a long distance and you get sweaty, if you're wearing cotton, you're kind of fucked.

00:01:08.000 If it's really cold out, once you start getting sweaty, your body starts shivering and you get in a real bad place.

00:01:15.000 Wool has this really weird quality, and maybe you can help me explain that, where when it gets wet, it somehow or another still retains heat.

00:01:23.000 So if you sweat in it, you still feel okay.

00:01:27.000 Like, what's going on there?

00:01:28.000 Well, you know, it just naturally moves the sweat off of your skin and kind of tries to get it to the outermost layer, and at which point then it can evaporate fast.

00:01:38.000 But, you know, sheep have to live in crazy environments. 0.98

00:01:41.000 You know, it'll be hotter than shit in the summertime, and then... 0.99

00:01:45.000 You know, super cold in the winter. 0.98

00:01:47.000 So, you know, over the course of evolution, they've got, you know, a coat that will deal with a massive amount of variance, you know, and wool is pretty much the same.

00:01:57.000 It's like you can wear it when you're sweating bolts, it pulls the sweat off and then dries pretty quickly.

00:02:04.000 But even when it's wet, it retains 80% of its heat.

00:02:06.000 Yeah, it's amazing.

00:02:07.000 It's amazing stuff.

00:02:08.000 And is there a synthetic material that does the same thing?

00:02:12.000 Well, every synthetic is trying to A, mimic down, or B, mimic merino wool, because those are the two most efficient, you know, temperature-regulating fabrics or materials out there.

00:02:27.000 And that's how you got into your pre-Milofs and all your military testing, and that's where you saw synthetics really take off.

00:02:37.000 Yeah, so like Primaloft for example or some of your fleeces, they basically combine something that loves water and something that hates water.

00:02:48.000 So the thing that loves water is going to pull moisture off and the thing that hates it is going to repel it and try to push it to the outside.

00:02:55.000 That's interesting.

00:02:56.000 So it's like sort of a two-layer process where something's trying to keep you dry and something's trying to like literally suck up the wet like a sponge.

00:03:04.000 Yes.

00:03:04.000 And then somehow or another your body heat then can regulate it because your body heat, you're staying warm because the dry is close to your skin and then the heat comes off your skin and can dry out that stuff better.

00:03:16.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:03:17.000 And your body heat, your natural zone, how much heat and how much moisture you push out is a major factor.

00:03:30.000 Especially when you get into some of your waterproof breathable membranes and things like that.

00:03:37.000 That's something that I think really would surprise a lot of people when it comes to hunting clothing.

00:03:43.000 They really would have no idea, like, how much...

00:03:46.000 how technical the stuff is, and how much thought is put into it, and how, like, involved the process is of creating this stuff.

00:03:55.000 You know, it's funny, because we all kind of came from the traditional, like, ski, snowboard, snowmobile world, you know?

00:04:01.000 Grew up, whatever, skiing, and so we...

00:04:10.000 Sure, yeah.

00:04:25.000 Using Merino that we found something that, I mean, you know, if you go skiing or snowboarding or sledding, snowmobiling, right?

00:04:32.000 You're sweating bullets and if you get stinky, whatever.

00:04:35.000 It's just how it always was, you know.

00:04:37.000 But for hunting, it's really a big deal, you know.

00:04:40.000 If you can possibly kind of, you know, shrink your stink footprint just by a little bit, it can be the difference between succeeding that season or not, you know.

00:04:49.000 And so we also are wearing...

00:04:50.000 Marino for whatever, all of the other sports, like skiing and snowboarding and pedal biking and whatever.

00:04:57.000 And once we found out that it didn't stink, that was like, whoa, that was a big deal, because you could wear it for days and days.

00:05:04.000 And so that was kind of the impetus.

00:05:06.000 And at the same time, it started taking over, I would say, the traditional outdoor space.

00:05:11.000 Yeah, and your company is really popular with public land, do-it-yourself hunters, guys who go out backpacking for long periods of time, and that's one of the reasons why they like that Merino wool.

00:05:23.000 And one of the reasons why I wanted to have you guys on is to talk about what's been going on lately with HR 621 and now HR 622, these two recent bills.

00:05:33.000 They pulled H.R. 621. Steve Rinello wrote a big article about it, but for the uninitiated, what these bills are about is they're about selling off our public land, giving the states the ability to do whatever they want with it.

00:05:48.000 Right now, these lands are federal.

00:05:49.000 They're owned by the people of the United States.

00:05:51.000 It's a very unusual situation that we have here.

00:05:54.000 It's an amazing situation.

00:05:56.000 And there's very few countries in the world that have anything even remotely close to it, where there's millions and millions and millions of acres that are available for anybody listening to this to go on.

00:06:05.000 It's literally your land.

00:06:08.000 Like, backcountry hunters and anglers have that great shirt that I wear all the time.

00:06:10.000 It says, Public Land Owner, and I've seen you on it.

00:06:12.000 And I'm going to tweet the picture of you and I from SHOT Show, where I was with you and you were wearing that shirt.

00:06:20.000 Yeah.

00:06:20.000 That's such an important point for people because I didn't know it at all until I went with you guys, until I went with Rinella and the crew.

00:06:29.000 We went to Montana, that first trip with Brian Callen, who's hopefully coming.

00:06:32.000 That's why that door's open, folks, if you're watching this.

00:06:34.000 We're leaving that door open because Callen is trying to make his way over here right now.

00:06:40.000 I didn't know that this public land system even existed and I think most people are unaware they just don't they don't understand how unique this is and how Incredible like the the our forefathers like their their their vision to make something so incredible that no one Can go in and just fucking put malls up in it is an amazing thing and I think this is like the easiest battle in the world if we can Somehow tell people,

00:07:07.000 you know, communicate even a fraction of our appreciation for it.

00:07:12.000 Yeah.

00:07:13.000 It is the reason I get up in the morning.

00:07:17.000 Well, especially where you guys are.

00:07:18.000 Because you guys are, like, you're in the boondocks, man.

00:07:22.000 I mean, you guys are in Idaho, and you're in a beautiful area.

00:07:27.000 But you could literally, like, go out your back door...

00:07:31.000 And make a straight line through public land for forever.

00:07:35.000 Like, you could just go walk and disappear.

00:07:37.000 Oh, I mean, we can walk straight north and cross two highways and one interstate and keep going across the Canadian border, cross two more highways and be in the Yukon,

00:07:53.000 basically.

00:07:53.000 So it's a wild chunk of ground.

00:07:56.000 It's amazing.

00:07:57.000 It is.

00:07:58.000 And it's open to everybody.

00:08:00.000 Everybody.

00:08:00.000 And, you know, it's an interesting issue because sometimes, you know, you'll get mountain bikers, you get after the equestrian people or the, you know, the hikers get after the motorbikers.

00:08:12.000 But it's an issue for every single person because no matter what sport you do or how you choose to enjoy the outdoors, that's your land.

00:08:21.000 Once that's gone, it's gone.

00:08:24.000 Yeah, I mean, and there are regulations as far as where you can take motorbikes or where you can ride even bikes, right?

00:08:30.000 Even trail bikes.

00:08:31.000 But that set aside, man, there's some amazing country that you could just go get lost in, just go wander, pitch a tent, drink out of a stream, and you could stay there for long periods of time, and it's totally legal, it's totally yours,

00:08:46.000 you're Tax dollars literally fund and support it.

00:08:50.000 And all the money that comes from buying hunting equipment, from buying tags, from all that stuff is what pays to keep fish and game employed, make sure that people are monitoring the health and the populations of the animals that live there,

00:09:07.000 making sure that no one is breaking any of the laws.

00:09:09.000 I mean, it's really an amazing, amazing system.

00:09:12.000 It is.

00:09:13.000 It's unreal.

00:09:14.000 And, you know, I want to clarify a couple of things.

00:09:17.000 Like, all these national forests, any BLM grounds, they all have their own regulations.

00:09:25.000 So, yeah, you can pull up...

00:09:27.000 Bureau of Land Management, for folks that don't know what you're saying.

00:09:29.000 Bureau of Land Management, yes.

00:09:29.000 You guys are deep on the inside.

00:09:31.000 Most people listening just don't know what the fuck you're talking about. 1.00

00:09:34.000 That's right. 0.99

00:09:35.000 So different forests have different regulations as far as like how long you can stay camped in one spot.

00:09:42.000 Typically, it's 10 to 15 days.

00:09:45.000 And then you have to move, again, depending on where you are, X amount of, you know, sometimes it's 100 feet, sometimes it's 20 miles.

00:09:57.000 And then you can set up camp again.

00:09:59.000 Just arbitrary rules?

00:10:10.000 Right.

00:10:23.000 How did you guys become a company that's so connected in people that do go into the outdoors and people that do hunt and enjoy your products?

00:10:34.000 You guys are really connected to public land conservation and these do-it-yourself public land sportsmen.

00:10:42.000 You guys are very, very connected in that world.

00:10:45.000 It's a very respected company in that world.

00:10:49.000 Thanks.

00:10:50.000 I mean...

00:10:51.000 You know, we do, we see it from all angles, you know, all of us have, you know, in the summertime, like I said, we'll ride mountain bikes, and in the wintertime, backcountry skiing, and it's all of a sudden, you know, and then hunting, of course, it's huge, but you just see it from all angles, like places that,

00:11:07.000 where you recreate 365 days a year, all of a sudden, you start to get sucked up, and it's just like, wait a minute, wait a minute, you know, like, if this wasn't, if we didn't have public lands, we wouldn't have a business, right?

00:11:20.000 It It just wouldn't exist.

00:11:23.000 It wasn't a committee decision.

00:11:24.000 Our board of trustees didn't say, it's high time we...

00:11:28.000 Well, if you look at the United States being only founded in 1776, and you just look at the massive amount of land we occupy now, there's just the greater Los Angeles area where there's 30 million people, and you go up all through the Pacific Coast Highway and just see all the cities and see all the buildings and see all the stuff that you would encounter if you try to drive.

00:11:50.000 From California to New York. 0.58

00:11:52.000 The only thing that's stopping that whole fucking area from being covered with buildings and malls and gas stations and anything else they can stick in there... 0.98

00:12:01.000 Is the fact that it's public land. 0.98

00:12:03.000 That it's federally owned land and you can't build on it.

00:12:07.000 There's some folks that want that.

00:12:08.000 They want it.

00:12:09.000 We drove that, what is it, Topanga Canyon?

00:12:13.000 Yeah.

00:12:14.000 And I was like, oh, there's a good looking house.

00:12:16.000 And I was like, oh, God, there's houses everywhere in here.

00:12:19.000 Yeah.

00:12:20.000 And then we came around the corner and there's a sign that says, open space, X amount.

00:12:25.000 I was like, yeah, cover that open space up.

00:12:28.000 Get rid of that stuff.

00:12:29.000 It said that?

00:12:30.000 Open space?

00:12:31.000 I wonder what they mean by that.

00:12:33.000 Oh, it had an acreage sign on it right there, and it was like...

00:12:36.000 Like a park?

00:12:37.000 Oh, no, like a for sale sign.

00:12:39.000 Oh, open space for sale.

00:12:41.000 This space is still open.

00:12:43.000 Yeah, there's a lot of development up there.

00:12:45.000 Topanga's very unusual, though, because if you live in Los Angeles, you could be in Topanga and look like you're in the woods.

00:12:52.000 It's cool, I gotta say.

00:12:54.000 And right now, it's all greened up.

00:12:55.000 It's beautiful up there.

00:12:56.000 Oh, right now, it's spectacular.

00:12:57.000 Right now, I mean, it would trick you.

00:12:59.000 If you came here from somewhere else, you're like, oh my god, this is the most beautiful place ever.

00:13:02.000 And you come back in August, you're like, this is a fire hazard.

00:13:05.000 We gotta get out of here.

00:13:07.000 Everything's dry, and people are throwing cigarettes out their car windows.

00:13:10.000 Kenton's a serious audiophile, so when we were driving up the road, You know, we opted to go over the Pacific Coast Highway and then come over that way out of LA. And Kenton's like, oh man, I bet Neil Young walked through that door a hundred times.

00:13:25.000 Yeah, I bet he had.

00:13:26.000 I mean, there was a house that was for sale in Topanga.

00:13:29.000 And I found out about it before.

00:13:30.000 It was already sold by the time I found out about it.

00:13:32.000 But it was a house that Jimi Hendrix owned. 0.99

00:13:35.000 It's like, fuck, I would buy a house that Jimi Hendrix owned in a heartbeat. 1.00

00:13:39.000 Buy a garbage can that he owned. 1.00

00:13:42.000 Yeah, I mean, that whole place was just, it's hippies galore up there.

00:13:45.000 It's a really interesting spot.

00:13:47.000 Yeah.

00:13:48.000 621?

00:13:50.000 H.R. 621...

00:13:51.000 What does H.R. stand for?

00:13:54.000 I believe it's House Rule, right?

00:13:56.000 Is that right?

00:13:57.000 No, we're going to have to Google that up.

00:13:58.000 I'm not real good on some of the nuts and bolts.

00:14:02.000 Jamie will get it for us.

00:14:03.000 But 621 was basically to authorize the sale of pre-approved lands, 3.3 million acres of...

00:14:18.000 Federally managed lands that had been designated as disposable, right?

00:14:27.000 Now, how do they decide what's disposable and what's not?

00:14:31.000 That's a fantastic question.

00:14:32.000 I've asked it a ton, and I don't know.

00:14:35.000 I certainly haven't talked to anybody who was on that committee.

00:14:37.000 That came up under Clinton, I believe.

00:14:40.000 Three million acres.

00:14:41.000 Yeah, 3.3 million acres.

00:14:43.000 That seems like a lot.

00:14:44.000 Oh.

00:14:44.000 Jesus.

00:14:45.000 It is.

00:14:46.000 Like a state.

00:14:46.000 Yeah.

00:14:47.000 HR. Yeah.

00:14:48.000 HR just means it started in the House.

00:14:50.000 Okay.

00:14:51.000 House of Representatives HR. Oh, okay.

00:14:53.000 Excellent.

00:14:53.000 Okay.

00:14:55.000 And then 622...

00:14:57.000 So 621's off right now.

00:14:59.000 Right.

00:14:59.000 Well, the guy pulled it after the backlash, and his name is Jason Chavitz.

00:15:04.000 Is that how you say his name?

00:15:04.000 Yep.

00:15:05.000 Representative Jason Chavitz out of Utah.

00:15:07.000 And what's crazy is this guy's a hunter and a fisherman, apparently.

00:15:11.000 And he took a picture with him wearing camo.

00:15:13.000 Hey guys, I'm one of you.

00:15:14.000 Come on, stop attacking me.

00:15:15.000 Because as soon as people found out about this bill, his...

00:15:19.000 Comments on his Instagram page were just overwhelmed with hunters.

00:15:23.000 He just took over his Instagram comments, you know, and were really upset.

00:15:28.000 And some people kept it classy, a lot of people didn't.

00:15:31.000 And I'm sure he felt the heat of that.

00:15:35.000 Yes, absolutely.

00:15:36.000 Which is really interesting, like, now, because of social media, because of guys like you guys, and, I mean, there was a million people, the Gritty Bowman, Ranella, I got involved, there's a lot of people involved, and there's a lot of different, you know, you look at all the, if you Calculate all our followers up,

00:15:52.000 of all the different people that were making posts about this, it reaches a lot of people.

00:15:56.000 And then it gets people who might have been like me before I went with you guys to Montana, who just might have been curious, like, what is this all about?

00:16:03.000 Then you read into it, and then you start looking into this public land system that we have and how unique and beautiful it is, and you just go, wow, they want to sell that?

00:16:12.000 And Paul Ryan had proposed that as well, right?

00:16:14.000 Didn't he propose selling it off to pay some of the land off to pay for the debt?

00:16:18.000 It's something that comes up all too frequently.

00:16:23.000 It's something that we've watched state by state by state do.

00:16:28.000 It's like you get a bad fire season.

00:16:32.000 All of a sudden you're up to your eyeballs in debt and it's raised taxes or it's...

00:16:37.000 Sell off some land.

00:16:38.000 Sell off some land, yeah.

00:16:39.000 It's so short-sighted.

00:16:40.000 You know, when you think about the possibility that this land could not be there for your children or your children's children, like it's been for us, and it's been for our grandparents.

00:16:50.000 I mean, it's an amazing system that we have here.

00:16:52.000 And what is HR 622?

00:16:55.000 Okay, so HR 622 is...

00:16:59.000 Right now, it is very black and white.

00:17:02.000 It's basically to remove federal law enforcement officers, LEOs, which the BLM has its own law enforcement officers.

00:17:14.000 Forest Service has its own law enforcement officers.

00:17:17.000 Remove those and then give county law enforcement the authority to enforce laws on the federally managed lands.

00:17:29.000 Huh.

00:17:29.000 So if their resources are tight...

00:17:31.000 Which they are.

00:17:33.000 They probably wouldn't stop poachers.

00:17:35.000 They probably wouldn't do a good job of keeping people, of making a mess out of the place.

00:17:40.000 Yeah.

00:17:41.000 And basically what it does is it sets the federal land system up to fail.

00:17:46.000 It's like a booby trap.

00:17:47.000 It's like, all right, now we're going to pull all these resources out.

00:17:52.000 And then five years later, it's like, oh, look what a disaster it is.

00:17:54.000 Now it's moving to state.

00:17:55.000 You know what I mean?

00:17:56.000 Right.

00:17:57.000 So it's weakening the structure of it to facilitate a collapse.

00:18:02.000 Correct.

00:18:02.000 And there's nothing against county law enforcement here.

00:18:07.000 The thing is, it's like, you know, you go grab your local sheriff or sheriff's deputy and say, hey, you know, how many mushrooms can I pull off of this burn on, you know, the Cibola National Forest?

00:18:20.000 I mean, that guy's going to look at you cross-eyed.

00:18:22.000 You know, ask him how many cords of wood you can go up and cut for your fireplace in the winter.

00:18:28.000 You know, the guy's not going to have a clue because it's not his job.

00:18:32.000 He's got bigger fish to fry.

00:18:34.000 Totally different laws, right, for federal versus state.

00:18:38.000 Yeah, I mean, it's a different job.

00:18:40.000 Now, explain to people, what is the difference between BLM and the other organizations that control public land?

00:18:48.000 Okay, so...

00:18:49.000 Bureau of Land Management.

00:18:51.000 Yeah, so the Homestead Act, right?

00:18:54.000 Go West, young man.

00:18:55.000 Everybody gets 140 acres.

00:19:00.000 So basically we pushed a lot of people out onto this big open space because, you know, the East needed money.

00:19:08.000 So we really need to populate these areas and start the economy rolling again.

00:19:15.000 Basically the areas that failed, like a large chunk of the Missouri breaks is block land management or bureau land management.

00:19:24.000 The areas that failed and were not hospitable It became BLM ground.

00:19:30.000 And basically the impetus of BLM is they're more revenue focused than your Forest Service lands are.

00:19:42.000 So BLM is more focused towards grazing.

00:19:48.000 So leases, like oil and gas, grazing.

00:19:52.000 And the grazing lease was the big thing with the Bundys.

00:19:55.000 Correct. 0.99

00:19:55.000 That was the big thing up in Oregon where there's a standoff with the Rangers and all that jazz, which is fucking chaos. 0.99

00:20:02.000 Chaos. 0.98

00:20:03.000 But they owed a ton of money.

00:20:05.000 Yeah.

00:20:05.000 And they didn't, you know, didn't want to pay it.

00:20:07.000 They owe a ton of money.

00:20:09.000 Yeah, they still do.

00:20:10.000 How does that work?

00:20:11.000 Like, because we've been on hunts before.

00:20:13.000 Like, we were recently with Rinella and crew.

00:20:15.000 We were in Nevada, and we were on a mule deer hunt. 0.99

00:20:18.000 And, you know, you'd be stalking on a mule deer, and these fucking cows were everywhere. 0.99

00:20:22.000 I mean, everywhere. 0.99

00:20:24.000 I mean, if you were hunting cows, boy, you would be golden.

00:20:27.000 Like, dude, we're eating good tonight. 1.00

00:20:28.000 There's fucking cows everywhere. 0.99

00:20:30.000 But we were hunting deer, so you would have to get away from the fucking cows to get to the deer, and the cows would sometimes spook, and then the deer would realize that the cow saw something, and they would boing, boing. 1.00

00:20:40.000 Yep. 0.99

00:20:41.000 Or the cows would want to come check you out. 1.00

00:20:42.000 Yeah, and you would step in cow shit everywhere. 1.00

00:20:45.000 And I was like, this is so crazy. 0.99

00:20:47.000 Like, how are these, how does this work?

00:20:49.000 And, you know, they were trying to explain to me that these people just sort of let these cows wander through.

00:20:53.000 And we found that in Montana as well.

00:20:56.000 Yep.

00:20:56.000 People just let their cows wander all over the place, then they round them up.

00:20:59.000 Yeah, and that's something.

00:21:00.000 So the, you know, we, the people, have these programs in place to where we lease that ground.

00:21:12.000 I would say more often than not, if not a hundred percent of the time, far below market value.

00:21:19.000 We're good to go.

00:21:39.000 Who go out and they say, this is how many days and how many, you know, animal cow-calf units can be grazed on this area for this long.

00:21:53.000 And doesn't that affect local wildlife as well?

00:21:55.000 Because I would assume if you're having your animals graze on this land, they're eating a lot of stuff that the deer would eat or maybe a lot of the other wildlife would eat.

00:22:03.000 But you've got to keep in mind, man.

00:22:04.000 Is it a tough call?

00:22:05.000 I mean, yeah.

00:22:06.000 I mean, where we are, you know, in the lowlands, it's the antelope and the cows live pretty harmoniously.

00:22:15.000 In fact, a lot of that, you know, if there's a lot of grain they use to a lot of cow feed, then, you know, it could help.

00:22:22.000 When done properly, it works really well.

00:22:26.000 Basically, our beef has replaced our bison, our buffalo.

00:22:31.000 There was a major grazer out there prior to the beef being out there.

00:22:36.000 Super dense grasslands are good for some things, but You know, oftentimes your upland birds need open areas for, you know, picking up scratch and it's better for the bugs and a number of reasons.

00:22:51.000 So when that system's respected and done well, it's good for everybody or can be good for everybody.

00:23:00.000 Now, what are your opinions?

00:23:01.000 I'm sure you guys are aware of this whole American Serengeti project that they're trying to do in the Midwest of this country, in the middle of this country, which is really quite fascinating.

00:23:10.000 They're trying to buy up private land and turn it into what they think was essentially like what America was before people came here.

00:23:21.000 Yes, and I'm not super studied up on it, but yeah, that is kind of the nuts and bolts of it.

00:23:26.000 And at the end of the day, if it's going to be privately held, and I want to say Nature Conservancy.

00:23:31.000 American Prairie Reserve.

00:23:33.000 There it is right there.

00:23:34.000 This is a little piece on it that Jamie just pulled up.

00:23:39.000 But, you know, they want to reintroduce bison, like wild bison, all throughout areas of Wyoming.

00:23:45.000 It's Montana, Wyoming.

00:23:47.000 There's a bunch of different areas, right?

00:23:48.000 Where is it?

00:23:49.000 Yeah, I mean, it's...

00:23:50.000 I know it's been talked about in a number of different states, but yeah, I think it is, you know, kind of the traditional, you know, the...

00:23:59.000 Yeah, the...

00:24:03.000 kind of the...

00:24:07.000 Oklahoma, South Dakota, North Dakota, like the true prairie region there.

00:24:13.000 Where it used to be like giant herds of buffalo wandering through the land.

00:24:17.000 They want to recreate that.

00:24:19.000 And they're also going to open up block management on that, right?

00:24:21.000 So this is going to be an area like once it gets established and once there's populations of animals there, then people are going to be allowed to hunt those animals.

00:24:29.000 Yeah, and if that's the case, that's great.

00:24:32.000 Like I said, I haven't been super studied up on it, but I love the idea, man.

00:24:37.000 It's fascinating that they're doing this and buying up private land that's right now being used for whatever, and they're going to turn it into public land, and they're going to allow people to go there, and you're going to be able to see great herds of bison roaming through some of these states.

00:24:52.000 I mean, that's going to be incredible.

00:24:54.000 That's something we always talk about on this land transfer stuff.

00:24:57.000 You know, once it's gone, it's gone.

00:24:59.000 So if these guys are out there trying to make some more of it, I say, good on them.

00:25:03.000 Yeah, I mean, they literally are trying to make more public land, which is kind of crazy.

00:25:07.000 What are they going to do about predators?

00:25:08.000 Are they going to bring in predators?

00:25:10.000 Are they going to bring in wolves?

00:25:12.000 Can you say that, Jamie?

00:25:14.000 Here we go.

00:25:15.000 Does the APR intend to reintroduce predators such as wolves, grizzly bears, which are historically present in the region?

00:25:21.000 As a private, non-profit organization, American Prairie Reserve does not have the authority to reintroduce species to the area, even if those species were historically present.

00:25:31.000 Species reintroduction falls under the jurisdiction of Montana Fish and Wildlife Parks and And or the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and any decisions regarding the reintroduction of wolves or grizzlies in the region will need to be made by these agencies augmented by the will of the general public.

00:25:47.000 Interesting. 0.98

00:25:48.000 Yeah, reintroducing grizzlies is a fucking dovesail. 0.98

00:25:51.000 I'll tell you right now, the grizzlies are going for it, though. 0.99

00:25:54.000 Oh, in Montana.

00:25:55.000 It's crazy, right?

00:25:55.000 That area that you and I were in.

00:25:57.000 Yeah.

00:25:57.000 Missouri Breaks.

00:25:58.000 I mean, that's east of the mountains, right?

00:26:01.000 Right.

00:26:02.000 Every other year or so, they catch some loner, typically a young male grizz, way out in the prairie.

00:26:12.000 And it just looks like he's just kind of naturally getting funneled down to the Missouri Breaks.

00:26:18.000 Which, you know, is the historic range for them.

00:26:21.000 And somewhere along the way, he gets, you know, his hunger gets the best of them and he knocks over some sheep and that's kind of the end of them, but they're getting close.

00:26:30.000 Wolves are going to come whether you like it or not.

00:26:33.000 Yeah, how do you guys feel about wolves?

00:26:34.000 Because you guys are in Idaho and Idaho has a really interesting relationship with wolves where it's a real love-hate relationship. 0.97

00:26:41.000 Like, I gotta imagine, it's gotta be cool as fuck to be out at night and hear, oh! 0.91

00:26:47.000 It's interesting. 0.96

00:26:48.000 It's amazing.

00:26:49.000 So at first, I think it was...

00:26:53.000 Before you could hunt wolves and before it was totally unchecked, the elk hunting sucked.

00:27:00.000 Because they killed all the elk.

00:27:01.000 Because they came in, the elk didn't know what was going on.

00:27:03.000 They hadn't had wolves there in a long time, over 100 years.

00:27:06.000 And then explain to people, there's a reintroduction of wolves into the Yellowstone region in 1990-something or another?

00:27:12.000 Six, maybe, or two.

00:27:14.000 It was...

00:27:15.000 I'm not positive when it started.

00:27:16.000 And this was not voted on either.

00:27:18.000 This is a really controversial subject among sports people and also among wildlife people.

00:27:22.000 A lot of wildlife people completely support it.

00:27:24.000 They think it balances out the ecosystem and that the undulates like the elk and the deer were running rampant and they were destroying a lot of the grasses and the plants that would...

00:27:34.000 Like, provide homes for a lot of other animals, and this whole thing was kind of unbalanced.

00:27:39.000 Just like with beef, man.

00:27:41.000 Overgrazing's a bad deal.

00:27:43.000 Absolutely.

00:27:44.000 So, you know, prior to us being able to hunt them and stuff, it really was skewed.

00:27:52.000 The elk had no idea how to deal with the wolves.

00:27:55.000 So, for instance, a pack of wolves would come in, a bull would go out and try to fend off the wolves, and it would just get...

00:28:03.000 Crushed by the wolves, you know?

00:28:05.000 Right.

00:28:05.000 A bull elk.

00:28:07.000 Anything, yeah.

00:28:07.000 Full bull elk, right?

00:28:08.000 Right.

00:28:09.000 But nowadays, after maybe living together for...

00:28:13.000 I mean, I've seen this.

00:28:14.000 It's happening in my neighborhood, like, as we speak.

00:28:17.000 There's wolves in my neighborhood right now.

00:28:19.000 And it literally...

00:28:20.000 You can tell when the wolves are around, the elk, they pawed up, kind of.

00:28:25.000 Kind of get into a circle, and they don't try to go out and fight one-on-one.

00:28:29.000 They'll just sit there, and the wolves will kind of come in, and...

00:28:33.000 They work together, you know, and it's an interesting thing.

00:28:37.000 Our elk hunting is quite good.

00:28:39.000 And the elk don't run.

00:28:40.000 They don't run.

00:28:41.000 They don't split off.

00:28:42.000 They've kind of figured out this symbiosis, like how to live with wolves.

00:28:47.000 It's an interesting thing.

00:28:48.000 That's fascinating because they always did live with wolves, you know, until people came along.

00:28:52.000 Right.

00:28:52.000 And elves tradition...

00:28:54.000 Elves? 1.00

00:28:55.000 What the fuck am I talking about? 0.99

00:28:56.000 This is where my mind is. 0.99

00:28:59.000 Elk, traditionally, before people came around, there's a debate as to whether or not they were mountain animals at all, right?

00:29:05.000 They spent more time...

00:29:07.000 They're crazy animals.

00:29:09.000 Starved going through the Nez Perce territory, right? 0.71

00:29:12.000 There was so little game in the mountains when they were out there.

00:29:16.000 That's one of the major arguments for that.

00:29:19.000 Right.

00:29:20.000 Yeah, you know, there were animals...

00:29:25.000 Covering the prairies, if you, you know, believe every word of those Lewis and Clark journals.

00:29:31.000 Well, it kind of makes sense if you think about it, because if you see the way they're adapting to wolves, and every animal adapts.

00:29:36.000 I mean, there's a crazy documentary right now, and this is a little bit off topic, but on Netflix about rats. 0.98

00:29:42.000 It is so fucking disturbing. 0.92

00:29:44.000 If you haven't seen it, it's amazing. 0.99

00:29:46.000 It's called Rats.

00:29:47.000 It's called Rats.

00:29:48.000 I've heard about it.

00:29:48.000 Morgan Spurlock, the guy who did Supersize Me and a bunch of other documentaries, he created this.

00:29:55.000 Woo! 0.99

00:29:56.000 Rats, like, they're gross. 0.72

00:29:58.000 Everybody knows they're gross. 1.00

00:29:59.000 When they start pulling parasites, they catch a bunch of rats, start pulling parasites out, and they're like, well, this one will kill you if you have an open wound and this gets on you, you're fucked. 1.00

00:30:07.000 Well, the Black Plague, right? 0.99

00:30:08.000 Yeah, that all came from rats, yeah.

00:30:09.000 And they pulled a bot fly out of this one rat that was literally the size of its head.

00:30:14.000 It's just like this gigantic thing.

00:30:15.000 And then at the end of it, they kind of explain, like, one of the guys who's an exterminator explains how smart rats are and how much they adapt.

00:30:23.000 And what they'll do is if... 0.96

00:30:25.000 There's poison, or if there's traps, they literally, the smart rats, the older rats, will hang back, and they'll let a young, weaker rat go towards the food, and he gets his fucking head crushed by the trap, and they go, yep, I thought something was fucked up about that, let's get out of here. 0.98

00:30:41.000 And you never kill them all. 0.98

00:30:43.000 To be able to kill them all, the most effective method that they were using in this documentary was dogs.

00:30:48.000 They had a bunch of terriers. 0.99

00:30:50.000 It was in England. 1.00

00:30:51.000 Oh, these little fucking cute little dogs, man. 1.00

00:30:54.000 Cute little dogs. 1.00

00:30:55.000 You would think, oh, little sweetie, those little fucking Jack Russell terriers, those little suckers were meant to kill rats. 1.00

00:31:02.000 That's why they made them. 1.00

00:31:03.000 And they just run after these rats and they're all ripping them apart. 0.93

00:31:07.000 It is ruthless and brutal.

00:31:09.000 But it just highlights the adaptation that animals undergo when there's pressure. 0.94

00:31:16.000 Any kind of pressure makes them adapt and change, and they just sort of figure out what the fuck the problem is. 0.85

00:31:23.000 Brian Callen on the way. 0.86

00:31:24.000 I grabbed it.

00:31:26.000 There it is.

00:31:27.000 This is a scene in it.

00:31:28.000 Oh, there we go.

00:31:30.000 Look at those things.

00:31:31.000 They're pissed. 1.00

00:31:31.000 Oh my god, these little fuckers are monstrous, man. 1.00

00:31:34.000 They just crush these rats, and they rip them apart. 1.00

00:31:37.000 Like, they play tug-of-war with these rats.

00:31:40.000 This is not in the movie, right?

00:31:42.000 This is just something else.

00:31:43.000 This is just on YouTube called Ratting or something.

00:31:45.000 Ratting, yeah.

00:31:46.000 And this is how they rid the countrysides of rats in, like, really heavy areas.

00:31:51.000 They don't eat them, though.

00:31:51.000 They just kill them, right?

00:31:52.000 No, they just crush them. 0.93

00:31:53.000 Well, sometimes they eat them.

00:31:54.000 In the movie, they were eating some of them.

00:31:55.000 Speaking to the parasite side of things, Kent and I were cruising down...

00:31:59.000 Where were we last night?

00:32:01.000 See a Kardashian?

00:32:02.000 Ventura Boulevard.

00:32:04.000 No?

00:32:06.000 There is a possum.

00:32:07.000 Yeah.

00:32:08.000 Same thing.

00:32:09.000 Cal grabbed the possum by the tail.

00:32:10.000 I thought it might have been Curtis for him.

00:32:12.000 You grabbed it?

00:32:12.000 I couldn't help myself.

00:32:13.000 It was the first possum I've ever seen.

00:32:14.000 Seems like a good idea at the time.

00:32:16.000 You've never seen a possum before?

00:32:17.000 I've never seen a possum.

00:32:19.000 How's that possible?

00:32:19.000 You're in the woods 300 days a year.

00:32:21.000 We don't have a possum, man.

00:32:23.000 Wow.

00:32:24.000 Yeah.

00:32:24.000 So I grabbed the thing by the tail because I wanted to see if it'd play dead, right?

00:32:28.000 Right.

00:32:28.000 That's the thing.

00:32:28.000 And then immediately I just ran inside and washed my hands because I was like, oh, God.

00:32:32.000 I'm in L.A. and I grabbed a possum.

00:32:34.000 That's a dirty possum. 1.00

00:32:35.000 It's got AIDS, for sure. 1.00

00:32:36.000 It's got possum AIDS. So the adaptation thing is 100% true.

00:32:42.000 Those elk got punished when the wolves were...

00:32:46.000 You know, coming on the scene.

00:32:47.000 And they just figured it out.

00:32:49.000 And they figured it out.

00:32:49.000 And prior to that, they got punished by people and they moved into the mountains.

00:32:53.000 They realized, look, these people, the lazy ones, they want to pull up in their truck and fucking shoot off the hood. 0.98

00:32:58.000 And just stay away from cars. 0.99

00:32:59.000 Hey, guys, let's go up here.

00:33:01.000 It's hard for them to go up here.

00:33:03.000 They get tired.

00:33:04.000 There's not that much air.

00:33:05.000 Let's go higher.

00:33:06.000 The wolves are super smart, right?

00:33:08.000 They don't mess around.

00:33:10.000 Once the bullets started flying, there's a wolf quota, and rarely in our unit does it get met.

00:33:19.000 I don't know.

00:33:20.000 I mean that to people that are uninitiated.

00:33:22.000 So what it is, is the wildlife biologists, and this is a really controversial topic, because when they reintroduced wolves, there was a target population that they wanted to reach.

00:33:30.000 And they felt like we could reintroduce these wolves, and what's interesting is, they got them from Canada.

00:33:35.000 And the guy that trapped them, that the legend holds, he just found the nastiest, biggest, like, oh, you guys want to bring wolves?

00:33:41.000 Because in Canada, like, where I got this moose in BC, they have so many wolves that That Mike Hawkridge, my buddy who lives up there, one of his neighbors, took out a cow. 0.95

00:33:53.000 And, you know, they'll just get these big packs and they'll just fucking attack things.

00:33:57.000 They roll in at least like four to, you know, a pack of four is small. 0.92

00:34:01.000 I mean, there's nine of them.

00:34:03.000 But, one, I'm not like some wolf hater, right?

00:34:06.000 No, no, no, no.

00:34:07.000 By any means. 0.86

00:34:07.000 But it is, they are gnarly predators. 0.86

00:34:11.000 Like, I've seen them, you know, kill stuff and it's...

00:34:16.000 I don't know.

00:34:16.000 It's interesting to me how people have this real soft spot for wolves.

00:34:19.000 Like, they're amazing creatures.

00:34:21.000 Amazing.

00:34:21.000 And they can do amazing things.

00:34:23.000 They can travel amazing distances.

00:34:24.000 But nice, they are not.

00:34:26.000 And it's not like this furry kind of thing.

00:34:28.000 They're pissed.

00:34:30.000 Well, people think of them as dogs, because they look a lot like huskies.

00:34:33.000 We think of them as some beautiful forest creature that lives this natural existence, and they do. 1.00

00:34:38.000 But they're also fucking ruthless predators. 0.98

00:34:41.000 And the only predator in North America like that, that size, that operates in packs. 1.00

00:34:47.000 And that's some scary shit. 0.99

00:34:49.000 I mean, coyotes kind of do it, but they're a lot smaller. 1.00

00:34:52.000 They're more going after rodents and fawns and little things that they can get a hold of. 0.99

00:34:57.000 Wolves will take out a fucking full-blown elk. 0.99

00:34:59.000 You come across a kill, and it's... 0.99

00:35:02.000 That thing did not die in any sort of a nice Disney sort of way.

00:35:06.000 Oh, boy.

00:35:07.000 From the back to the front, almost always.

00:35:09.000 When we were in BC, in that place where I was getting to with my friend Mike Hawkridge up there, we came across a kill.

00:35:18.000 It was pretty fresh.

00:35:19.000 It was a calf, a moose calf.

00:35:22.000 And it was just...

00:35:23.000 The stunning thing about it is, first of all, it was pretty fresh.

00:35:26.000 Like, you look down at it like it probably happened the night before, maybe at the very earliest, like a day ago. 0.99

00:35:31.000 And there was fucking hair everywhere. 0.99

00:35:33.000 Like, that's what I didn't expect. 0.99

00:35:34.000 Somehow or another, I thought, like, oh, I didn't expect to see so much hair.

00:35:38.000 But it's almost like they shaved it.

00:35:40.000 And it stays for, like, a long time, you know?

00:35:43.000 You could come in the next summer and it would be just this big, it looks like a carpet.

00:35:47.000 Well, up there in BC where he lives, you can shoot as many wolves as you want.

00:35:52.000 There's no quota. 0.99

00:35:52.000 The reason being is that there's so many of them, they have to control the population, and they're so fucking smart. 0.99

00:35:57.000 They're really hard to kill. 0.97

00:35:59.000 And so these people that have cows up there and there are various farm animals up there, I mean, they're constantly into pressure.

00:36:06.000 They're constantly in the threat of these wolves.

00:36:08.000 As well as him, Mike shot a wolf that came at him and jumped at him off of a ridge.

00:36:14.000 He was going up a ridge, rifle in his hand, and he had made some howls.

00:36:20.000 You know, he can imitate a wolf's howl.

00:36:22.000 And the wolf saw him and literally was jumping at him and he shot it in the air.

00:36:28.000 That is amazing.

00:36:29.000 That's like full Africa style, right? 1.00

00:36:31.000 And he's got this wolf mounted in his house like this, with his feet up to remind him of that scene.

00:36:37.000 I mean, that easily could have been the end of him.

00:36:38.000 I mean, if he's up there without a gun, that wolf could easily have killed him.

00:36:42.000 It's the teamwork aspect.

00:36:44.000 It's the worst end of the wolves.

00:36:46.000 Oh, yeah.

00:36:46.000 It'll be horrific.

00:36:47.000 The worst.

00:36:47.000 So we called in a wolf.

00:36:52.000 We should go back to the quota thing, because this is kind of a pet peeve of mine.

00:36:56.000 I try to encourage everybody at the office to go to our local fish and game meetings and the town hall meetings and things that happen there in Ketchum, Idaho.

00:37:10.000 One of the arguments that came up was just so backwards, but it came from a place of...

00:37:15.000 I can see the logical sequence here, but typically if there's a really, really long hunting season on something...

00:37:23.000 It means that hunters are doing a really bad job of filling their tags.

00:37:28.000 Right.

00:37:29.000 Okay.

00:37:29.000 So if there's a really short season, it typically means that hunters are doing a really efficient job of filling their tags.

00:37:37.000 So we have this very long season on wolves.

00:37:41.000 And several people from town stood up at the fish and game meeting and said, hey, this is just immoral.

00:37:49.000 That, you know, we're putting hunting pressure on wolves for eight months out of the year.

00:37:55.000 And the truth of the matter is, is hunters, myself included, are doing a very, very poor job of putting a tag on these things.

00:38:06.000 And I've called in one in our area, and it was an absolutely amazing experience.

00:38:12.000 But, you know, basically our south-facing slopes are wide open.

00:38:16.000 Our north-facing slopes are heavily timbered.

00:38:18.000 And I could hear the wolf calling below.

00:38:22.000 My friend of mine, Jim, is an amazing shot.

00:38:26.000 Old retired Forest Service dude.

00:38:29.000 And...

00:38:30.000 He got set up for the shot.

00:38:31.000 I'm calling at the wolf.

00:38:33.000 As the wolf's coming up the mountain, it all of a sudden starts making noises that I just cannot make.

00:38:38.000 So I kind of knew I was screwed, right?

00:38:40.000 But the vocal range is unbelievable. 0.97

00:38:44.000 Just like barks and wolves and growls.

00:38:48.000 It just sounded like this thing was getting more and more pissed off the closer it got to us.

00:38:53.000 And that was my job, right?

00:38:55.000 I was like, I'm going to make this thing so pissed that it just keeps coming.

00:38:59.000 And Jim's going to get a shot at it.

00:39:01.000 And that thing broke the tree line at probably 500 yards.

00:39:06.000 Made it at a dead sprint about 60 yards from the timber.

00:39:10.000 All of a sudden, hit the brakes, turned around, and was gone.

00:39:13.000 And that is the closest I have ever gotten to killing a wolf in Idaho.

00:39:18.000 And saw it for maybe a second. 1.00

00:39:21.000 Now, there's a lot of people that are listening to this and go, why the fuck would you want to kill a wolf, man? 1.00

00:39:25.000 You know, what do you got, a little dick? 1.00

00:39:27.000 Dick doesn't work? 1.00

00:39:28.000 You know, that's the big one that always comes up. 1.00

00:39:29.000 Is your dick so small, man, you want to kill a wolf? 1.00

00:39:32.000 What I think is lost on people who don't encounter wolves or who don't understand the science behind wildlife management is that... 1.00

00:39:42.000 There is nothing else that's going to control their population.

00:39:45.000 It's only going to be people.

00:39:47.000 They're going to survive through the winter. 0.98

00:39:49.000 They're going to eat as many elk as they can, as many deer, as many whatever the fuck they can get a hold of as they can. 0.97

00:39:55.000 And especially since they had this kind of crazy head start before the animals figured out that they were there. 0.96

00:40:00.000 Because they'd never been there in over 100 years since they were extirpated from the American Southwest.

00:40:06.000 And what they had done was...

00:40:09.000 With wolves, they had shot like horses, like wild horses, then injected them with strychnine, right?

00:40:14.000 Yeah.

00:40:14.000 And then they had shot like an alpha wolf and rubbed his scent and his glands all over the meat so that the other wolves knew that he had been there, so they thought it was okay to eat that stuff.

00:40:25.000 And so they would eat it, they would get the strychnine, and they would die, and it was a mass kill-off.

00:40:29.000 The Judas wolf.

00:40:30.000 Yeah, yeah, Judas wolf, yeah.

00:40:32.000 Yeah.

00:40:35.000 Yes.

00:40:35.000 So, yeah, there is management, right?

00:40:38.000 And the thing is, like, one of the hottest topics in our area was in the winter, especially a heavy winter right now, all your game animals get congregated in lower elevations typically on these south-facing slopes that get a lot of sun.

00:40:52.000 Heavy winters like we're experiencing right now, these animals are basically pushed into that farm and ranch country.

00:40:59.000 And those operators down there are feeding their winter livestock.

00:41:07.000 And the wolves and the coyotes are right in on top of everybody in calving seasons right now.

00:41:14.000 So then you get typically a very large mortality rate.

00:41:20.000 Yeah, mortality rate spikes because you got animals that are in distress and there's, you know, afterbirth from the birthing process everywhere.

00:41:28.000 You got easy pickings on the calves and hunters aren't knocking these numbers down.

00:41:33.000 So the state and, you know, Cattlemen's Association will go together and fund helicopter Gunning, so aerial gunning to go out there and shoot those animals. 0.99

00:41:46.000 I would love to hear the tiny dick argument. 1.00

00:41:51.000 Well, you want to kill a wolf because you've got a tiny dick. 1.00

00:41:54.000 Why would you want to kill a wolf? 1.00

00:41:55.000 They're beautiful, magnificent creatures.

00:41:57.000 And they are.

00:41:58.000 But it's important to recognize that there have historically been gigantic problems with wolves and people. 0.99

00:42:03.000 That's where all the Little Red Riding Hood shit comes from. 0.98

00:42:06.000 The wolves in Paris story, I'm sure you're aware of that story from the 1400s where they killed like 40 people in Paris. 0.99

00:42:12.000 India?

00:42:13.000 Yeah.

00:42:14.000 Well, Paris has wolves in it again.

00:42:15.000 Do you know that?

00:42:16.000 No.

00:42:17.000 Yes. 0.99

00:42:17.000 The people are being told, there was an article about it recently, where people are being told to not fear the wolves that are in the streets of fucking Paris. 0.99

00:42:25.000 Because they're only looking for four-legged prey. 0.99

00:42:28.000 Like, these fucking people don't remember the story from the 1400s, this historical story where the people of Paris had to gather together with fucking spears and corner these wolves and kill them in the town square. 0.99

00:42:40.000 It's an amazing story. 0.99

00:42:42.000 You know, how much of it, you know, obviously when you're dealing with something from 1400, there's no, like, film, so we don't know how much of this is accurate, but it's a historical story that they had to kill a ton of wolves.

00:42:53.000 And I'm sure you guys know about the story from World War I. Yes.

00:42:56.000 The Russians and the Germans had a ceasefire because so many of them were getting killed by wolves in Russia. 1.00

00:43:01.000 They decided, let's go kill these fucking wolves and then we'll go back to killing each other. 1.00

00:43:05.000 I had never heard that. 1.00

00:43:06.000 You never heard that?

00:43:06.000 No.

00:43:06.000 It's a great story.

00:43:07.000 It's a great story.

00:43:08.000 I think, I mean, the populace at large, what they, I think, what could benefit the most from is there's people on extreme lovers and extreme haters, but in the middle, there is somewhere in the middle, there's a right thing to do.

00:43:22.000 And I think that the government definitely puts their best foot forward via scientists and whatever to figure out that balance, you know?

00:43:31.000 And I think that to say that, you know, we need to have You know, 10,000 wolves in Idaho is naive, because that would happen, for instance, if they were just let, you know, procreate at will.

00:43:44.000 So, you know, these people are trying to be good, right?

00:43:49.000 That's why they're culling them. 0.87

00:43:50.000 That's why, you know, that's why they reintroduced them to create a balance, you know?

00:43:55.000 And I think that that needs to be realized.

00:43:57.000 Both sides.

00:43:58.000 Both sides.

00:43:59.000 The people that don't want any wolves to die, they don't want wolves to die because wolves are amazing.

00:44:03.000 And then wildlife is amazing.

00:44:04.000 Totally.

00:44:05.000 You can go to Yellowstone, and I went this summer, and you go and see a herd of buffalo just chilling on this field.

00:44:11.000 And I was there with my kids, and I was giving them the binos, and they're staring at these buffalo, and they're only like 100 yards away.

00:44:17.000 And I'm like, this is amazing!

00:44:19.000 Like and and my kids are like those are wild like those are wild they go wherever they want and like that's like in their head like that's a wild that there's just giant furry fucking Star Wars beast yeah it's a wild animal never forget it they'll never forget it yeah I mean it was sinking in their head too that this is wild you know because it's one thing if you see something behind a fence and you go oh that's a cow you know we're at a farm that's a cow and I'm like no honey those things live in the woods they go wherever they want there's no boss no one tells them what to do they just do whatever they want Totally.

00:44:49.000 Well, coming full circle, like the whole wild thing is that, you know, with public lands, people get to have these crazy wild experiences, i.e.

00:44:59.000 by hunting.

00:44:59.000 Like there's very little things that you can do where you go out and it's...

00:45:05.000 It's raw, right?

00:45:06.000 Things can go sideways and, you know, you can get caught out.

00:45:09.000 I mean, it's a unique thing to be able to do to experience this wild stuff.

00:45:15.000 Yeah, and what you mean by get caught out there is like you could go somewhere and the weather can turn ugly and you can get snowed in.

00:45:22.000 Get lost. 1.00

00:45:23.000 In the fucking mountains. 1.00

00:45:24.000 Yeah, people die every day. 1.00

00:45:25.000 Yeah.

00:45:26.000 Bobcat Goldthwait had a really fun video, a movie rather, that he did called Willow Creek.

00:45:32.000 And the movie was about all the different people that get lost in the woods.

00:45:36.000 And his movie was saying that Bigfoot was eating them.

00:45:38.000 Right. 0.97

00:45:38.000 It's pretty ridiculous. 0.97

00:45:41.000 Or is it? 0.99

00:45:43.000 Or is it?

00:45:44.000 But it was a fun movie.

00:45:45.000 Bobcat is a nut.

00:45:46.000 He's a Bigfoot fanatic. 0.80

00:45:47.000 I was trying to tell him from people that actually go to the woods.

00:45:51.000 You know how many hunters see Bigfoot?

00:45:52.000 Zero! 0.90

00:45:54.000 Zero! 1.00

00:45:54.000 It's fucking zero. 1.00

00:45:55.000 How many get hit by cars? 0.99

00:45:57.000 Zero.

00:45:57.000 Right.

00:45:58.000 Fucking zero. 0.99

00:45:59.000 How many get caught on trail cams? 1.00

00:46:01.000 Fucking zero. 0.99

00:46:02.000 And that's the other thing, like with the number of trail cams that exist today in the woods, people put up to scout to try to find out where the animals are. 0.99

00:46:10.000 And then on top of that, the number of phones that people have that have cameras on them has gone through the roof, but the Bigfoot sightings have shrunk.

00:46:17.000 There's way less of them.

00:46:19.000 Interesting.

00:46:20.000 And UFOs, too.

00:46:20.000 I had to reevaluate my Bigfoot and UFO thinking.

00:46:23.000 When was the last time you saw a good UFO video? 0.98

00:46:26.000 They're fucking non, right? 0.99

00:46:28.000 They're non. 0.99

00:46:28.000 Our area, if you were going to see a UFO, you could... 0.99

00:46:32.000 We have zero light pollution, right?

00:46:35.000 And the air quality's insane.

00:46:37.000 Oh, you guys must have, like, crazy skies at night, huh?

00:46:39.000 I mean, UFOs all over the place.

00:46:41.000 Yeah.

00:46:44.000 Yeah, you guys must have beautiful night skies.

00:46:46.000 Solid.

00:46:47.000 It's unreal.

00:46:48.000 I mean, the office is just under 7,000 feet, and then within 20 minutes of the office, you can climb to 11,000 feet.

00:46:59.000 Wow.

00:47:00.000 Try breathing up there.

00:47:01.000 It's difficult.

00:47:02.000 Bring one of these kettlebells up there.

00:47:03.000 Get yourself a workout.

00:47:04.000 You feel good.

00:47:06.000 You feel good, and then you have a couple days' worth of stuff on your back, and you're like...

00:47:12.000 Why is it that you have to drink so much water when there's high altitude?

00:47:17.000 What's that about?

00:47:17.000 It's just dry.

00:47:19.000 Generally speaking, where we are, it's just low humidity.

00:47:22.000 And you breathe, you know, every time you breathe out, you breathe out a little water.

00:47:26.000 Right.

00:47:27.000 Yeah, that's what the mist is when you see people at night and it's cold.

00:47:30.000 That stuff that's coming out of your mouth, that's actually water vapor.

00:47:33.000 Right.

00:47:33.000 And it exists all the time.

00:47:35.000 You just don't see it because there's not a big difference in the temperature between your body and the air like it is when it's really cold out.

00:47:42.000 I think that's why people are more hungover in the mountains, too.

00:47:45.000 Certainly my excuse.

00:47:47.000 Well, it's got to be because you're dehydrated, too, which is the big factor in being hungover in the first place, right?

00:47:52.000 Exactly. 0.98

00:47:53.000 Like, the people that are pros, they'll pound booze, and then they'll have a fucking jug of water. 0.89

00:47:57.000 A buddy of mine drank with Jean-Claude Van Damme, and he said, this is like way back when Jean-Claude Van Damme was a big movie star, doing all these big movies. 0.97

00:48:05.000 Blood sport. 0.98

00:48:06.000 He said he would do booze, and he had a fucking gallon of water with him. 0.99

00:48:10.000 He brought like a milk jug size gallon filled with water. 0.99

00:48:14.000 So he'd do a shot and fucking chug the water. 0.98

00:48:17.000 Like he was really consciously boozing, which I've never seen anybody do before. 0.99

00:48:22.000 That's an aggressive guy.

00:48:23.000 Mindful boozing.

00:48:24.000 Mindful boozing.

00:48:25.000 Health boozing.

00:48:26.000 He was health boozing.

00:48:28.000 That's a guy that's going, look, I'm not going to stop being a degenerate, but I'm going to take care of my body in the process.

00:48:33.000 He comes to catch him, so he used to, and we'd hear stories about looseness, but I don't know.

00:48:38.000 I've never witnessed it myself.

00:48:39.000 Looseness?

00:48:40.000 You know, going to the bars and getting loose.

00:48:42.000 Getting partying?

00:48:44.000 Yes.

00:48:44.000 He gets crazy and catch him?

00:48:45.000 Apparently.

00:48:46.000 Used to.

00:48:47.000 Throws sidekicks off the roof and shit? 0.99

00:48:49.000 Yeah, you know. 0.99

00:48:49.000 Shots for everyone? 0.99

00:48:50.000 Shots for everyone.

00:48:51.000 First time I ever heard a wolf.

00:48:54.000 And this goes back to, like, the hair on your arm standing up.

00:48:57.000 I was working with a buddy of mine in the Frank Church Wilderness.

00:49:01.000 Where's that?

00:49:01.000 It's just straight north of Ketchum.

00:49:03.000 It's the largest contiguous wilderness in the lower 48. Really?

00:49:08.000 Yep.

00:49:08.000 It's huge.

00:49:09.000 And it tried to get peopled, right?

00:49:10.000 We tried to force people in there to mine it and farm it, and it just didn't take.

00:49:14.000 So there's old homesteads and stuff, and there's some eerie stuff.

00:49:17.000 Like the Missouri Breaks?

00:49:19.000 Yes.

00:49:19.000 Yeah.

00:49:20.000 Very, very similar.

00:49:21.000 This is just, you know, on a kind of a grander scale, much more timber and stuff.

00:49:26.000 Your guys' first experience out there, I think, I still think about that.

00:49:29.000 Because that was, I would love to put some of these, like, land transfer people out there on that same trip.

00:49:35.000 Oh, yeah.

00:49:37.000 These guys showed up.

00:49:37.000 It was like 34 degrees, trying to snow, mostly just rain, overcast, gray skies.

00:49:44.000 It was perfect.

00:49:45.000 Nothing merry about it.

00:49:46.000 Yeah.

00:49:47.000 It was awesome.

00:49:47.000 That's the worst temperature to deal with.

00:49:49.000 Well, then it got down to like 9, you know?

00:49:51.000 Yes.

00:49:51.000 But at least it's not wet, right?

00:49:53.000 It was fucking awesome, man. 0.95

00:49:55.000 It was awesome because it's just... 0.96

00:49:56.000 One of the things about being in the real wilderness is how beautiful but lonely it is.

00:50:05.000 It's kind of lonely.

00:50:07.000 There's something weird about it.

00:50:08.000 Like, you could die... 0.99

00:50:10.000 And it doesn't give a fuck. 1.00

00:50:12.000 You have this illusion, like if you died right here, if you had a heart attack and tipped over, we'd all be bummed out. 0.99

00:50:16.000 Like, God, we lost Ryan Callahan, I can't believe it, man.

00:50:20.000 And you know we'd be bummed out. 0.99

00:50:21.000 But the woods wouldn't give a fuck. 0.99

00:50:23.000 No. 0.99

00:50:24.000 You would just, you'd fall dead and everything would go, it's just the humble...

00:50:30.000 The feeling of humility and the feeling of insignificance is so overwhelming and unavoidable that it's just this intense realization of your peace, like where you are as a person, where you fit in in this grand,

00:50:45.000 gigantic mandala of life.

00:50:48.000 Yes.

00:50:48.000 And it's amplified the further you go back, you know, and you know you're a full day plus walk away, you know, or you get dropped off somewhere.

00:50:58.000 You know, it's like, whoa.

00:51:01.000 I mean, we're here.

00:51:02.000 You know, it's a cool feeling, though.

00:51:05.000 That's the whole thing, right?

00:51:06.000 You're outside your comfort zone.

00:51:07.000 That's what makes it so pleasurable.

00:51:09.000 My friend Adam Greentree went on a do-it-yourself hunt in Montana, an archery elk hunt, and he went, I think he went at least 12 miles in.

00:51:17.000 He might have went more.

00:51:19.000 By himself.

00:51:20.000 Shot an elk. 1.00

00:51:21.000 Big fucker. 1.00

00:51:22.000 Packed it out by himself. 1.00

00:51:24.000 Four days.

00:51:25.000 Four days of pack out.

00:51:27.000 So he's got 100 pounds on his back, and he's gotta walk 12 miles back and forth for four days to get this elk out.

00:51:36.000 That's heavy.

00:51:37.000 For folks who don't know, that is four days of misery.

00:51:40.000 That's not four days of looking around and enjoying, whistling through the woods.

00:51:44.000 That's just work.

00:51:45.000 Yeah, I mean, and he's in decent shape.

00:51:47.000 I mean, he works out a little bit, but he's not Cam Haynes. 0.96

00:51:49.000 You know, he's not like some fucking crazy marathon ultra runner. 0.97

00:51:52.000 Right. 0.98

00:51:52.000 Yeah, it's not his job to be fit. 0.98

00:51:54.000 Yeah.

00:51:54.000 I mean, he's a professional bow hunter, and he's got a mining job in Australia.

00:51:58.000 And that's the other thing.

00:51:59.000 He lives in Australia, so even though he brought all that meat back, he couldn't even take it home.

00:52:03.000 He could only eat what he had here in America.

00:52:06.000 Yeah.

00:52:06.000 And donate it.

00:52:07.000 Yeah, you can't bring it back to Australia.

00:52:08.000 They don't allow it.

00:52:09.000 That's a shame.

00:52:09.000 Australian customs, they won't allow you to bring in meat.

00:52:12.000 But if you're doing four trips, so let's say he did a little bit of meat and his entire camp out on the first trip, that's three loads of just meat.

00:52:21.000 80 pounds of load?

00:52:22.000 Yeah, I mean, that guy brought out a lot of meat.

00:52:25.000 He brought it all back.

00:52:26.000 A lot.

00:52:26.000 Yeah.

00:52:27.000 He brought it all back over four days.

00:52:28.000 But, you know, when he described it, like how brutal the experience was by himself shooting this animal.

00:52:36.000 And then he called a buddy to help him.

00:52:38.000 This guy helped him pack out a little bit.

00:52:40.000 So imagine your bones laying there on the prairie in eastern Montana.

00:52:46.000 There's a good chance, because hunters do the same thing, right?

00:52:49.000 And game kind of does the same thing, generation after generation, generation.

00:52:54.000 Think about, you tip over dead, there's a very good chance in that country there's probably like a crow or a sioux set of bones underneath you.

00:53:04.000 Maybe somebody's horse.

00:53:08.000 Bison Antiquus all stacked up underneath you.

00:53:11.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:53:12.000 Like, it does not give you a fuck. 1.00

00:53:14.000 Doesn't give a fuck. 1.00

00:53:15.000 There's plenty of bones out there. 1.00

00:53:16.000 You just join in the pile.

00:53:17.000 And there's a whole system.

00:53:18.000 Like, the idea of waste is ludicrous.

00:53:20.000 You know?

00:53:21.000 Like, if anything that dies, it's not going to waste.

00:53:24.000 Like, you're not going to waste.

00:53:25.000 Your dog dies out there, it's not going to waste.

00:53:28.000 Something will eat it.

00:53:29.000 Yes.

00:53:29.000 And that is the whole system.

00:53:31.000 I mean, it doesn't seem like it to you as a person.

00:53:34.000 You're like, you're not supposed to eat Fluffy.

00:53:36.000 He's my dog.

00:53:38.000 No, that's a dog, and a dog is an animal, and an animal that dies, there is a whole system in place for handling that.

00:53:45.000 For sure.

00:53:45.000 I mean, from the wolves, then the foxes will come in, then the birds, and then, you know, you get flies.

00:53:51.000 Bacteria, bugs, everything, and it'll be gone.

00:53:54.000 It'll be down to bones, and then eventually something will eat the bones. 0.98

00:53:57.000 It just takes time.

00:53:58.000 Did you see the picture of the archery bull I posted this year?

00:54:01.000 Yeah.

00:54:01.000 It just left the face on and then took all the meat off.

00:54:05.000 You did an amazing job.

00:54:05.000 That's so important to post, too, because you didn't waste an ounce of that meat.

00:54:10.000 You cut every, in between the ribs, you know, you were, I mean, and people were, like, commenting on that photo, like, that is the respect that you give an animal when you hunt it and you shoot it.

00:54:19.000 That's the right way to handle it.

00:54:21.000 Yes, now the reality, and I think so, too.

00:54:23.000 And I try to go above and beyond because it is.

00:54:27.000 The tongue, organ meat.

00:54:27.000 He's an organ meat guy.

00:54:28.000 Yeah, I'm an organ meat guy, too.

00:54:30.000 I love heart and liver.

00:54:31.000 I'm medium on the organ.

00:54:32.000 I'm going to start with tongues this year.

00:54:34.000 I was thinking about your liver.

00:54:36.000 Oh, dude.

00:54:37.000 That was the worst thing to be vocal about ever.

00:54:41.000 I used to get called up all the time.

00:54:44.000 Like, hey, I got a tongue for you.

00:54:45.000 Because I know you like them.

00:54:46.000 Now it's...

00:54:47.000 You're just overwhelmed with tongues?

00:54:49.000 No, everybody keeps their tongue.

00:54:50.000 They keep their tongues now. 1.00

00:54:51.000 They keep their damn tongues and I don't have any. 1.00

00:54:53.000 It's out of the bag. 1.00

00:54:55.000 Yes, it is.

00:54:56.000 But you will love it.

00:54:59.000 The thing is, yeah, you should take every single thing, but there are little things that get wasted.

00:55:06.000 And the rib meat chunks, especially later in the season when there's not a lot of fat on these animals, if it's going to take you some time to get out, that's the stuff that's going to get super dried out before you can even make something out of it.

00:55:20.000 Right.

00:55:21.000 You were saying about liver?

00:55:23.000 Oh, yeah.

00:55:24.000 So you made a comment that you eat a lot of liver.

00:55:27.000 Yeah.

00:55:27.000 Like, is that a typical L.A. dish around here?

00:55:31.000 No.

00:55:32.000 No, it's me.

00:55:34.000 It's just organ meat's really good for you.

00:55:36.000 It's so high in vitamins and iron.

00:55:38.000 And it's just something about it.

00:55:40.000 It just feels good when I'm eating it.

00:55:41.000 You know, I've read about wolves, that wolves, like, that's one of the ways that they...

00:55:47.000 That they establish the alpha.

00:55:48.000 The alpha is the one that eats the liver.

00:55:50.000 When they kill an animal, the alpha immediately eats the liver.

00:55:54.000 Interesting.

00:55:55.000 There was this guy that was living with wolves, and he had these wolves sort of convinced that he was a wolf.

00:56:01.000 And he was a wildlife biologist and a wolf expert.

00:56:05.000 I forget where this was that he was doing it, but it was a whole documentary on it.

00:56:08.000 It wasn't Never Cry Wolf, was it?

00:56:10.000 I don't remember the name of it.

00:56:12.000 Unfortunately, maybe Jamie can find it.

00:56:13.000 But one of the things that this guy did was he would put a liver in a downed animal.

00:56:19.000 Like they would kill an animal, place it, put a liver in it, and he would eat the liver in front of the other wolves so that he would be the dominant male. 0.52

00:56:27.000 And where he got fucked up is, he had to leave, because he's a wolf expert, there was a farmer that was being inundated by wolves, so they had set up this whole way to keep the wolves away from this guy's property without killing them. 0.63

00:56:40.000 And one of the things that they did was they set up all these speakers, and they projected the sounds of these alpha wolves with these giant speakers. 0.99

00:56:47.000 So like, look, bitch, this new fucking king just moved into town. 1.00

00:56:50.000 Everybody get the hell away from these sheep. 1.00

00:56:52.000 And they set up these big-ass speakers all over, and it worked, but It took a long time to keep these wolves away, like a couple of months. 0.95

00:57:00.000 And so when he came back, there was a new alpha that had taken his place and he wanted to kill him.

00:57:06.000 And it's a horrific scene where this guy is standing there whimpering in front of this wolf and this huge wolf is in front of him baring his teeth. 1.00

00:57:14.000 And you're just thinking at any minute this wolf is just going to tear this guy's fucking face off. 0.99

00:57:18.000 Is this real? 1.00

00:57:19.000 Oh yeah, it's 100% real.

00:57:20.000 Yeah, it's 100% real.

00:57:21.000 It's gnarly.

00:57:22.000 When the wolf's in front of him like...

00:57:24.000 And he's like, I mean, he's got to, like, hope that this wolf does not decide to attack him.

00:57:32.000 That shows him mercy.

00:57:33.000 Yeah.

00:57:33.000 That he established a friendship with this wolf when he was the alpha, to the point where it's going to accept the changing of positions, and he has to show no resistance to this change.

00:57:42.000 So it's a really critical moment in his fucking life, man. 0.99

00:57:45.000 Because it might end right there with that wolf. 1.00

00:57:48.000 In a bad way.

00:57:50.000 Yeah.

00:57:50.000 I mean...

00:57:51.000 You know, everything's happy when there's food around.

00:57:53.000 So if...

00:57:55.000 Late in the season and food scarce, that would be a tough proposition to make.

00:58:00.000 Early in the season when everybody's happy, lots of calves on the ground, easy pickings.

00:58:05.000 Yeah, I was reading this article about bears in this one region of Alaska, where there's this salmon run, and we had a video of it where there's a guy, I'm sure you've seen the video, because it's a famous video, where this guy's sitting there, he's got a little lawn chair, and they're taking photographs of the bears, 0.99

00:58:22.000 and this fucking... 0.98

00:58:24.000 Volkswagen bus with fur walks up to him and just hangs out. 1.00

00:58:29.000 And there's no danger.

00:58:30.000 There's no fear.

00:58:31.000 Because this bear is fat.

00:58:32.000 And there's salmon everywhere.

00:58:34.000 And as the guy pans away, he goes, get out of here, bear.

00:58:37.000 And the bear leaves. 0.99

00:58:39.000 But, I mean, it's a fucking 1,500-pound bear. 0.99

00:58:42.000 It's an enormous, enormous bear. 0.99

00:58:44.000 I don't think people even get how big they are.

00:58:46.000 Until you're right there, you probably can't.

00:58:48.000 No.

00:58:48.000 But as this guy pans away, you see that there's just like a dozen bears in this one area.

00:58:53.000 And they're so well fed, this area historically has an incredibly low rate of attack.

00:59:02.000 There's like almost no attacks by bears on people in this one area.

00:59:06.000 This is it.

00:59:07.000 No, food is the deal. 1.00

00:59:09.000 Look at that fucking thing. 1.00

00:59:10.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

00:59:11.000 You can see it in this one, too.

00:59:12.000 Oh, my God.

00:59:13.000 I mean, that is, that's a tanker.

00:59:16.000 Oh, boy. 0.99

00:59:16.000 Did we contact, did you get a hold of Adam about that fucking TV? I told him to contact you. 0.99

00:59:21.000 Did he contact?

00:59:22.000 Oh, okay.

00:59:22.000 We gotta replace this TV. August.

00:59:24.000 Who decides that fucker? 1.00

00:59:26.000 Just decides to sit down behind you. 1.00

00:59:28.000 This TV sucks. 1.00

00:59:30.000 It keeps cutting out. 0.99

00:59:30.000 Yeah, so this guy has to chase his bear off. 0.99

00:59:33.000 But now look, as the bear goes, alright, whatever.

00:59:36.000 I mean, he's got a big fat belly.

00:59:37.000 And you turn, and you look down at the river, and it's just overrun.

00:59:41.000 Look behind you.

00:59:42.000 Look behind you. 1.00

00:59:42.000 Fuck that TV. That TV's such a piece of shit. 1.00

00:59:45.000 But look behind you. 1.00

00:59:45.000 Look at all those bears. 1.00

00:59:48.000 I mean, that's insane.

00:59:49.000 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14. There's 14 bears in this limited perspective.

00:59:57.000 And this guy's taking photos of them.

01:00:00.000 And there's more.

01:00:01.000 There's just overrun.

01:00:02.000 Just overrun with fish.

01:00:04.000 We were fishing up in Prince Wales off Steve's fish shack up there.

01:00:08.000 And we had his little boy in the canoe.

01:00:11.000 So it was three of us in the canoe.

01:00:13.000 And it was high tide and we paddled way up this creek.

01:00:17.000 And there were six black bears.

01:00:19.000 In this creek that's, I mean, as wide as this room.

01:00:22.000 And we're just sitting in the canoe and we kind of push the bow of the canoe on this stick so it would hold us in place.

01:00:29.000 And Steve's kid, you know, being a kid, he's like...

01:00:33.000 Bears are bad.

01:00:34.000 Bears are scary.

01:00:35.000 It's like, what are we doing here?

01:00:36.000 But you could watch these bears take turns, and there's one laying in this creek, and as the salmon would...

01:00:45.000 The water's dropping, right?

01:00:46.000 The tide's going out.

01:00:47.000 So the salmon would come up.

01:00:49.000 The bear would wait for one to be easy, grab it, walk into the woods.

01:00:54.000 The next bear would come down, lay in the same spot, And just wait.

01:00:58.000 So it was like a line.

01:00:59.000 It was a food line.

01:01:00.000 And everybody was totally cool with each other.

01:01:04.000 We're all going to get some.

01:01:06.000 Yeah, plenty of food, no conflict.

01:01:08.000 I mean, isn't that the same with people?

01:01:09.000 Yeah.

01:01:10.000 I mean, it's like kind of universal amongst all species. 0.99

01:01:13.000 As resources get scarce, shit gets weird. 0.98

01:01:16.000 Yeah, I mean... 0.99

01:01:18.000 And that is one of the things that's sort of important to bring up when people are talking about wolves and predators and populations.

01:01:26.000 Like, you can't ensure that these things are going to have an adequate food supply, especially as their numbers grow higher and higher.

01:01:34.000 It's a really controversial subject.

01:01:38.000 I think the one thing that people don't understand from the outside, that really don't understand the whole idea of hunting predators, I feel like you really kind of have to be there.

01:01:51.000 I feel like you kind of have to like almost be Just really involved in that whole ecosystem.

01:01:57.000 Just be there physically to kind of get it.

01:02:00.000 I think that's probably accurate.

01:02:02.000 I think it would be almost odd to be like, I'm going to go shoot this.

01:02:06.000 Some animal you've never seen, know nothing. 0.78

01:02:08.000 You know what I mean?

01:02:10.000 There's a certain cruelty to that, but maybe, maybe not.

01:02:13.000 I don't know.

01:02:13.000 But once you've seen the cycle in person, it kind of...

01:02:18.000 I don't know.

01:02:19.000 It brings everything together, if you will.

01:02:20.000 You see, like, you know, wow, that's interesting that, you know, that they're around now.

01:02:27.000 And I hope they don't get too many of them, but, you know, maybe it's a good thing.

01:02:31.000 And maybe, you know, certainly in our unit, elk-wise are fine. 0.58

01:02:36.000 Yeah.

01:02:36.000 Well, balance is super important, which is one of the reasons why places like New Zealand are so odd, because they brought over...

01:02:43.000 Incredibly odd.

01:02:44.000 Incredibly odd.

01:02:45.000 They brought over all these animals in the, what is it, like the 1800s?

01:02:48.000 The Europeans brought them over? 1.00

01:02:50.000 England brought them over? 0.79

01:02:51.000 Is that what it was?

01:02:51.000 Yeah.

01:02:52.000 Might have been earlier than that.

01:02:52.000 It was earlier than that, all the way to, because I think, God, I think Roosevelt gave them Canada geese and the mallard duck in like 1905 or something like that.

01:03:05.000 So what they did was they brought all these animals over there with no predators at all.

01:03:10.000 And so they have wild stags and these red deer and all these different animals that are not native. 0.98

01:03:18.000 And they're overrun to the point where they have to do helicopter runs on fucking stag. 0.97

01:03:23.000 They have to fly over and da-da [...]-da. 1.00

01:03:25.000 They have to poison them.

01:03:26.000 Like, they'll poison a whole valley because the possums or whatever go crazy, you know, and there's nothing left to control it.

01:03:32.000 It's nuts.

01:03:33.000 And you've got to think, the thinking was, no predators.

01:03:35.000 This is going to be great.

01:03:36.000 Everybody's going to get along, and it's going to be...

01:03:38.000 And we'll have food.

01:03:39.000 Well, the idea was that New Zealand was going to be an exotic hunting ground for the wealthy.

01:03:45.000 It was going to be like a Texas ranch.

01:03:48.000 For the English or something?

01:03:49.000 Yes.

01:03:49.000 Really?

01:03:50.000 Yes.

01:03:50.000 They were going to come over, and they were going to...

01:03:55.000 And they would go over there, and so they put these animals there, but then there's nothing killing them other than people. 0.99

01:04:02.000 And so they're just fucking like crazy and making baby stags and just, woo, this is a party. 0.99

01:04:08.000 There's plenty of food. 0.99

01:04:09.000 It's all lush and green.

01:04:10.000 It rains like crazy, so there's plenty of food.

01:04:13.000 Beautiful place.

01:04:14.000 Stunning.

01:04:15.000 Kenton's been over there.

01:04:16.000 I have not made it yet.

01:04:17.000 Did you hunt over there?

01:04:18.000 Yeah.

01:04:19.000 What was it like?

01:04:20.000 It was cool.

01:04:21.000 We just kind of went over there and met some of our wool growers.

01:04:27.000 And they rented a helicopter and they kind of dropped us off in the middle of nowhere.

01:04:32.000 They say we'll see you in a couple days?

01:04:33.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:04:34.000 They dropped us off on top of this hill.

01:04:36.000 I was ready to get out of the bird, frankly.

01:04:38.000 It was like crushing snow.

01:04:41.000 I've been in helicopters...

01:04:42.000 A solid amount.

01:04:43.000 And I don't love them.

01:04:44.000 And I was like, I'll walk back.

01:04:46.000 Like, let's get down.

01:04:47.000 So we got down and, you know, and just made our way out.

01:04:51.000 Ended up shooting a really nice chamois.

01:04:53.000 Oh, those are really wild looking animals.

01:04:56.000 Wild, yeah.

01:04:56.000 I mean, we didn't even know, like, how big anything.

01:04:59.000 We were just out there and we're like, oh, there's a chamois. 0.91

01:05:01.000 Shot it.

01:05:02.000 Those aren't native to that area either.

01:05:03.000 No, no.

01:05:04.000 We took it apart and, you know, got all the meat and everything and started walking out and almost left the head there.

01:05:09.000 And then, like, let's bring the head, you know?

01:05:11.000 It turns out it's some, you know, it was like an SCI gold.

01:05:15.000 They had never seen one before.

01:05:16.000 They're all so small, you know?

01:05:17.000 They taste phenomenal.

01:05:18.000 So that night, we got out.

01:05:19.000 It was an SCI gold?

01:05:21.000 Is that what you're saying?

01:05:21.000 Yeah.

01:05:21.000 You're saying like the size of it?

01:05:23.000 It was like a trophy-sized animal?

01:05:24.000 Yeah.

01:05:25.000 Yeah, and it was, which I thought was kind of funny.

01:05:27.000 Which is how they score all that stuff.

01:05:28.000 They do it in gold.

01:05:29.000 They have like silver, bronze.

01:05:32.000 Yeah.

01:05:32.000 You know, the inches.

01:05:33.000 Right.

01:05:33.000 But then it puts you into a different category.

01:05:35.000 So it's like a 400-inch elk.

01:05:37.000 Yeah.

01:05:38.000 Like that kind of thing?

01:05:39.000 Or a 200-inch whitetail.

01:05:40.000 Like there's this number that very few people ever achieve, right?

01:05:45.000 Yes.

01:05:46.000 Yeah.

01:05:46.000 But it was...

01:05:47.000 I don't know.

01:05:48.000 I'm not a huge number.

01:05:49.000 Of course, I like to pay attention, but whatever.

01:05:51.000 But it's super yummy.

01:05:53.000 Chamois is super good.

01:05:55.000 What does it taste like?

01:05:56.000 It just kind of tastes like...

01:05:57.000 I don't know.

01:05:58.000 Like lamb?

01:05:59.000 I would say a cross between a lamb and a really good whitetail.

01:06:04.000 Look at that thing. 0.92

01:06:05.000 What a weird animal.

01:06:06.000 Isn't it?

01:06:08.000 Wow.

01:06:08.000 And they're everywhere.

01:06:09.000 Whenever I see a big fat guy with a dead animal with a rifle, I feel like there's something wrong there.

01:06:15.000 Yeah, I mean...

01:06:16.000 Like, how does that guy get up there? 0.96

01:06:18.000 How, you know, I feel like you should, I mean, this is totally ignorant on my part and very biased, but I feel like you should have to be in shape to kill something that lives up there. 0.98

01:06:28.000 When I see a fat guy that just figures out a way how to do it, I'm like, all right, fatso. 0.98

01:06:32.000 Getting short-roped in. 0.76

01:06:33.000 Yeah.

01:06:35.000 Short roped?

01:06:35.000 What's that mean?

01:06:36.000 When guys climb Everest that are not fit, they'll have a guide that just basically puts a short rope on.

01:06:43.000 Drags them?

01:06:44.000 Basically, yeah.

01:06:44.000 Really?

01:06:45.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:06:45.000 Holy shit. 1.00

01:06:46.000 Aggressive guiding. 1.00

01:06:47.000 What the fuck is wrong with someone that doesn't get fit and wants to climb Everest? 0.97

01:06:52.000 I just think that they have no idea what it's like to be able to 8,000 meters. 0.99

01:06:56.000 They might sit there and go on the treadmill every single day and I don't know. 0.56

01:07:02.000 8,000 meters is what's really important, because 8,000 feet sucks.

01:07:06.000 When I lived in Boulder, we were at 8,500 feet, and I would do my kettlebell routine at 8,500 feet, and it was just like trying to run through water.

01:07:17.000 It was like, Jesus Christ, this is hard to do.

01:07:19.000 It was incredibly hard to do.

01:07:21.000 It was so much more difficult than it is to do at sea level.

01:07:23.000 I couldn't imagine what 8,000 meters is like.

01:07:27.000 Not really.

01:07:27.000 It's like 3%.

01:07:28.000 I think you lose something like 3% efficiency every 1,000 feet.

01:07:32.000 You come down to sea level and you feel like...

01:07:34.000 Every 1,000 feet.

01:07:35.000 Every 1,000 feet.

01:07:37.000 8,000 meters.

01:07:37.000 You're talking about...

01:07:38.000 24,000, 25, 26,000 feet.

01:07:40.000 It's insane.

01:07:41.000 It's insane.

01:07:42.000 It's insane.

01:07:43.000 You come down to sea level and for me, I'm like, ah, running's pointless.

01:07:46.000 This is...

01:07:46.000 I've been running for a while now.

01:07:48.000 I don't really feel anything.

01:07:49.000 Yeah. 0.77

01:07:50.000 Yeah, that was one thing that I noticed when I did live up there for, it was only like for four months, but when I'd go down to sea level, I felt like I could fucking run through walls.

01:07:58.000 Yes.

01:07:59.000 Like, now I get why those guys, like, train at elevation and then go and fight at sea level, because that's a big thing with fighters.

01:08:05.000 A lot of them, like, train in Denver or up here, they go to Big Bear.

01:08:08.000 Sure.

01:08:09.000 It goes away fast, though.

01:08:10.000 It literally...

01:08:10.000 Real quick.

01:08:11.000 Like, you're...

01:08:13.000 You acclimate here, probably back down.

01:08:15.000 I don't know.

01:08:15.000 It seems like not five days in your, you know.

01:08:18.000 It takes the same when you go back up, though.

01:08:20.000 If you've been at sea level for a while, you go back up.

01:08:21.000 It takes a while before you're kind of acclimated.

01:08:23.000 Yeah, I think they say that the best way to do it is actually to train at low altitude, but to live at high altitude.

01:08:32.000 Because you can put in more work.

01:08:34.000 So, like, you go down for the training.

01:08:38.000 Like, say, if you were next to Big Bear, you would drive down...

01:08:42.000 And then train at like, you know, wherever down there and then bust your ass in San Bernardino or whatever and then go back up the hill and sleep and eat and do all your stuff at high altitude.

01:08:53.000 So where your high workload is, like for the maximum efficiency of your training.

01:08:58.000 Because you can get 100 reps in at low elevation.

01:09:01.000 Exactly.

01:09:01.000 You get more work in.

01:09:02.000 You can do more work.

01:09:04.000 Also, for fighting, it's super important to not be tired while you're doing certain technical work.

01:09:11.000 You're going to be a certain amount of tired, but you don't want to be exhausted.

01:09:14.000 Because your brain doesn't work, right? 0.75

01:09:16.000 No, you drop your hands, you develop shitty skills, you start making errors in your technique, and those errors in your technique will manifest themselves under pressure. 0.99

01:09:26.000 So it's like, one of the things about fighting is it's super important that you do everything in training exactly how you would do it if your fucking life depended on it. 0.96

01:09:34.000 And if you don't, you're gonna pay a price. 0.63

01:09:36.000 Like, guys who slack off in training, They almost never become champions.

01:09:40.000 Unless you're some physical freak who can get away with it.

01:09:43.000 The reality is, in order to compete against like-minded people that are also phenomenally fit and motivated and understand the consequences of not being fit and motivated and well-trained, you have to do everything right.

01:09:57.000 And especially now, like MMA, you can get away with a lot.

01:10:00.000 When I started doing commentary in 1997, you could get away with a lot.

01:10:05.000 Because it wasn't...

01:10:07.000 Not a lot.

01:10:07.000 I mean, just the level of competition just was not the same as it is now.

01:10:11.000 But now the people are so good that the margin of error is so small. 0.71

01:10:15.000 The difference between victory and defeat is so small that it's just so much high-level activity going on in MMA fights that you can't fuck around in anywhere.

01:10:24.000 With your nutrition, with your recovery, with all the different things you're doing outside of training, like cryotherapy or floating or all these different things that people do.

01:10:35.000 Sauna.

01:10:35.000 That's another thing a lot of guys do.

01:10:37.000 All those different things are like hugely important because these little tiny edges, but also technique.

01:10:42.000 Like your technique has to be efficient and has to be correct so that in the heat of the moment, you never think of doing things wrong because you've never done anything wrong.

01:10:51.000 Every time you're training, you're doing things correctly and that might not even save you.

01:10:54.000 You still might get head kicked.

01:10:55.000 So you're like still basically, when you're at your worst, you're still the best.

01:11:00.000 Yeah, well, that's the problem.

01:11:02.000 The best fluctuates.

01:11:04.000 When you're dealing with world championship level, a division like the UFC's 170-pound division, a very competitive division, so competitive that the last title fight resulted in a draw.

01:11:17.000 And one of the first draws, there's only three draws in the history of the UFC in title fights.

01:11:22.000 So this fight lines up in a draw, and then there's a bunch of other guys fucking just straight killers waiting in the wings to have their shot at the title.

01:11:30.000 So on any given day, one of these guys might be able to beat one of those guys. 0.98

01:11:34.000 Like one of these guys comes in a little bit sick, has a little bit of a cold from training, or maybe they're breaking up with their girlfriend, their head's a little fucked up, which happens a lot.

01:11:44.000 Yeah, it's super common. 0.96

01:11:45.000 I thought that was a training thing, was like, stay away from the ladies. 1.00

01:11:48.000 Ah, that's bullshit. 1.00

01:11:49.000 Yeah, sometimes it's actually better to have sex, because then you're not thinking about sex. 1.00

01:11:56.000 That's what you see in the movies all the time, right? 0.94

01:11:58.000 It's like, yeah, you gotta be off the ladies if you're gonna train for me. 1.00

01:12:01.000 Well, a lot of fighters do think that, though.

01:12:03.000 Like Hicks and Gracie was one of the greatest jiu-jitsu fighters of all time.

01:12:06.000 He wouldn't have sex for like months, months out.

01:12:09.000 No wonder he's just furious. 0.76

01:12:11.000 I should be a fighter. 1.00

01:12:12.000 Mike Tyson would get his dick sucked right before he'd knock someone the fuck out. 1.00

01:12:16.000 He didn't give a shit. 1.00

01:12:17.000 He was like, that's both here. 1.00

01:12:18.000 I'm here for pussy. 1.00

01:12:20.000 He has a great quote. 1.00

01:12:22.000 Mike Tyson has a great quote. 0.99

01:12:23.000 He said, if a god invented anything better than pussy, he's keeping it to himself. 1.00

01:12:30.000 So he would have sex right before he fought and just destroy everybody. 1.00

01:12:34.000 Interesting. 0.99

01:12:35.000 Put that in perspective.

01:12:36.000 It doesn't make any sense.

01:12:36.000 He's not known to be a wordsmith either.

01:12:38.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:12:39.000 He's actually not the most educated guy, obviously, but not a stupid man by any stretch of the imagination. 0.96

01:12:46.000 I heard that show he did was fantastic. 0.98

01:12:49.000 I heard it's amazing.

01:12:49.000 I never got a chance to see it.

01:12:51.000 I saw the documentary, but I never saw the live show.

01:12:53.000 It was a live show.

01:12:54.000 It's supposed to be amazing.

01:12:55.000 Oh, you did a stand-up show, right?

01:12:57.000 Sort of, yeah.

01:12:58.000 Just a story of his life.

01:12:59.000 One act, kind of.

01:13:01.000 It's supposed to be just insane.

01:13:03.000 Everybody that I know that's seen it said, you've got to see it.

01:13:05.000 It's amazing.

01:13:05.000 That's cool.

01:13:06.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:13:07.000 But anyway, sex for him? 0.99

01:13:09.000 Yes. 1.00

01:13:10.000 He would have the sex. 0.86

01:13:11.000 Just not for everybody.

01:13:12.000 It's just, I mean, it certainly would lower your testosterone a little bit.

01:13:15.000 But I mean, if you're fit and prepared, it might relax you where you get a good night's sleep. 0.71

01:13:20.000 You know, because that's one of the things about these guys is like anxiety, staying up late, you know, just trying to get your shit together, making sure you get a good night's sleep so you don't get sick.

01:13:30.000 Don't let the, don't be overwhelmed by the pressure of the moment.

01:13:35.000 It's a lot going on.

01:13:36.000 Hell yeah. 0.99

01:13:37.000 And, you know, once you've introduced the possibility of just getting the shit kicked out of you, that raises the anxiety significantly. 0.99

01:13:46.000 Sure. 0.98

01:13:46.000 Now, think about the anxiety of releasing a perfect arrow on a beautiful animal. 0.98

01:13:52.000 You know, there's a lot of anxiety involved in that.

01:13:54.000 And it's something that people on the outside...

01:13:56.000 I've heard people say ridiculous things when it comes to hunting, but one of the most ridiculous things that people have to say is, you know, there's no skill involved in that. 0.66

01:14:04.000 All you're doing is, you know, you're shooting a defenseless animal. 0.90

01:14:07.000 Like, do you...

01:14:08.000 You have no idea.

01:14:09.000 You don't know what you're talking about.

01:14:10.000 It's insanely difficult. 1.00

01:14:12.000 It's so difficult to keep your shit together in that moment. 0.99

01:14:15.000 And if you're a person who is compassionate and who understands the consequences of wounding an animal and what's at stake here, and the responsibility of making a perfect shot and a clean kill, it's a very anxiety-filled moment. 0.99

01:14:32.000 Absolutely.

01:14:32.000 And I'll tell you right now, I've been around a lot of death.

01:14:37.000 Not necessarily by my hands, but doing the Gaiden gig and stuff like that.

01:14:44.000 I did not ever think I was susceptible to that anxiety of being behind the trigger because I'd been around it so, so much.

01:14:51.000 So what I'm trying to say is once you get that skill to be calm behind the trigger or on the string if you're releasing an arrow, it's not necessarily something that's going to stay with you.

01:15:02.000 Right.

01:15:03.000 It's not an automatic deal because I missed the largest mule deer in my life this year with a rifle at 90 yards.

01:15:09.000 No way.

01:15:10.000 Largest mule deer I've ever seen.

01:15:11.000 No way.

01:15:12.000 Bigger than the one that you killed with Steve?

01:15:14.000 Yes. 0.84

01:15:14.000 That's insane. 0.84

01:15:15.000 That one was massive.

01:15:17.000 That one that Steve killed was huge.

01:15:19.000 How is it bigger?

01:15:20.000 This thing, man, I just don't.

01:15:23.000 We hiked for two and a half days.

01:15:26.000 My buddy Kyler Reardon, he's the dude who boiled out your mule deer skull.

01:15:31.000 Your Montanamo. 0.74

01:15:34.000 I mean, we hiked for two and a half days.

01:15:36.000 He and his wife were having a baby, so we were like, gotta make this hunt happen, because it's not gonna happen next time.

01:15:42.000 How far in did you guys go?

01:15:43.000 We were seven miles, probably.

01:15:49.000 So you're going over and under, over elevation, climbing mountains.

01:15:54.000 Yeah, basically, you know, big river crossing, big climb, try to follow a major drainage up, couldn't find anything or found very, very little.

01:16:06.000 Just nasty, nasty country.

01:16:09.000 Finally find one mule deer fawn.

01:16:13.000 Sun setting, there's a mule deer fawn on this ridgeline.

01:16:16.000 I'm like, well, let's just camp here.

01:16:18.000 Because we had to leave the next day.

01:16:21.000 But that's the only sign of life that we saw.

01:16:24.000 Whoa.

01:16:24.000 And so we camped and Kyler's all fraught because he's like, God, I thought this would work out.

01:16:31.000 It was his spot.

01:16:32.000 It wasn't my spot.

01:16:34.000 And the next morning we get up and just stare at this hillside. 1.00

01:16:41.000 Kyler leaves to go take a shit. 0.98

01:16:44.000 And Four hours later, there's a buck crosses, and I can't get a range on my rangefinder. 0.99

01:16:52.000 It's too far away, and I'm just pissed at the whole situation.

01:16:56.000 Kyler comes over, and he's like, hey, I found some deer.

01:16:59.000 And we slipped around, and in this tiny little...

01:17:06.000 You had to be there.

01:17:08.000 It wasn't something you could see from two miles away.

01:17:11.000 You had to stumble into this pocket.

01:17:13.000 There were seven bucks chasing one doe.

01:17:17.000 Seven mule deer bucks chasing one doe.

01:17:19.000 And we were looking at these deer and we were so far in, you know, typically you're just not going to shoot a buck for meat when you're that far in.

01:17:30.000 And When you say a buck for meat, you mean a small buck.

01:17:35.000 A smaller buck, yeah.

01:17:36.000 Because you've put out so much effort, you would like to get an older, mature animal when you're that far in.

01:17:41.000 You're still going to eat the meat, but you want something kind of exceptional.

01:17:45.000 Right.

01:17:45.000 Exactly.

01:17:46.000 But for people, for the uninitiated, which a lot of people listening to this are, the meat buck, you would think of like a young fork buck where it doesn't have big antlers.

01:17:53.000 So you're talking about, you're looking for a big, mature animal.

01:17:56.000 Looking for a big mature animal.

01:17:57.000 Which is a difficult challenge.

01:17:59.000 There's a lot involved in an animal like that.

01:18:01.000 And it's also an animal that most certainly has bred.

01:18:03.000 Yes.

01:18:04.000 Spread its genes.

01:18:05.000 And so it's a good animal to take out of the gene pool to allow other animals to also breed.

01:18:10.000 And in fact, this is the only deer, only buck in that group that was going the complete opposite direction.

01:18:16.000 So everybody else, his six buddies, were on that doe.

01:18:21.000 Following her, and he was going the opposite direction.

01:18:24.000 Smart. 1.00

01:18:25.000 He's like, listen, bitch. 1.00

01:18:26.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:18:27.000 I got no time for these fucking games. 1.00

01:18:28.000 You know where to find me, Hooker. 1.00

01:18:30.000 Good luck.

01:18:31.000 Good luck, honey. 0.99

01:18:32.000 Yeah, he probably fucking drove his Ferrari over the top of the hill. 0.99

01:18:36.000 When you're ready, I'll be over here in my mansion. 0.98

01:18:40.000 And, man, I had this thing dead two rights.

01:18:42.000 I mean, a shot I can make any day of the week.

01:18:46.000 And I missed that thing at 90 yards with a rifle.

01:18:49.000 Offhand?

01:18:49.000 Was it offhand?

01:18:50.000 Oh, no.

01:18:51.000 I had a big, beautiful rest. 1.00

01:18:53.000 I had no excuses, and I just lost my shit. 1.00

01:18:56.000 Did you jerk the trigger? 1.00

01:18:57.000 You don't know?

01:18:58.000 I know exactly.

01:18:59.000 I mean, I've been in this situation a lot.

01:19:04.000 Like, okay.

01:19:04.000 Deer's undercover.

01:19:06.000 He's gonna step into this opening.

01:19:08.000 I had a round in the chamber.

01:19:11.000 Finger was off the trigger.

01:19:12.000 I was just waiting for him to step into that opening.

01:19:14.000 Crosshairs were there.

01:19:15.000 As soon as his nose came into the scope, I pulled the trigger.

01:19:19.000 Oh, and went right in front of him?

01:19:20.000 Yep.

01:19:21.000 Oh, you panicked.

01:19:22.000 Oh, I lost it.

01:19:25.000 Because you saw all those antlers.

01:19:27.000 I just, I never even looked at the buck through my binoculars.

01:19:31.000 Because I knew, I just knew.

01:19:33.000 How big he was.

01:19:34.000 How big he was.

01:19:34.000 How big do you think he was?

01:19:35.000 If you had to guess, like inches wise.

01:19:37.000 I would say once in two lifetimes.

01:19:40.000 Like, I will never see a deer that big.

01:19:41.000 Like a 290?

01:19:42.000 It was...

01:19:44.000 Like one of those Arizona strip bucks?

01:19:45.000 For me, yes.

01:19:47.000 For me, yes.

01:19:48.000 But I would say it was well over the 220 mark.

01:19:53.000 For people who don't know what that means, that's like me with my arms out.

01:19:58.000 That's how big the antlers are. 0.97

01:20:00.000 If you see that thing, that is...

01:20:04.000 There should be a lot of...

01:20:05.000 For me, there's a lot of misery in seeing that thing.

01:20:09.000 It should be a major pat on the back, because that's just something nobody gets to see.

01:20:14.000 Yeah, it's super rare, right?

01:20:15.000 For them to get that big.

01:20:17.000 That's genetics, age, it's a wise animal.

01:20:21.000 There's a lot involved.

01:20:22.000 Certainly in that unit.

01:20:23.000 Yes.

01:20:24.000 Yeah, I mean, it was just...

01:20:25.000 So this is an over-the-counter unit?

01:20:27.000 Yeah, and everything...

01:20:28.000 Which means that for people uninitiated, you just...

01:20:31.000 You don't...

01:20:32.000 For a lot of places, like I just said, the Arizona Strip.

01:20:35.000 The Arizona Strip is like this legendary area that borders between Utah and Arizona, and it has these monster mule deer in it.

01:20:42.000 Like, every year they pull these just insane deer out.

01:20:45.000 They've gone over 300 inches, which is just...

01:20:48.000 It's like the one-tenth of one percent of the world's population of deer.

01:20:54.000 It's just so rare to see an animal this big.

01:20:56.000 And this one area consistently produces these animals, so it's really hard to get a tag there.

01:21:02.000 Really hard.

01:21:02.000 Like, you could put in for 20 years and still not get it.

01:21:05.000 What that means is there might be thousands and thousands of people...

01:21:09.000 Well, they are.

01:21:09.000 There are thousands of people that are putting in for a tag there, and they might pick a very small amount.

01:21:15.000 Very, very small amount.

01:21:17.000 Yes.

01:21:17.000 So this was like an animal for there.

01:21:19.000 Like I said, no excuses.

01:21:21.000 We shoot a ton.

01:21:23.000 We have a reloading bench in the basement.

01:21:24.000 We shoot our bows in the basement of the office.

01:21:27.000 We have multiple shooting facilities that we can go to within 15 minutes of the office.

01:21:33.000 Spend a ton of time behind the trigger.

01:21:35.000 Do you have a process that you do in your mind?

01:21:37.000 Like when you see an animal and you're about to pull the trigger, do you have like a thing that you do?

01:21:41.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:21:42.000 Because they say that that's a good thing to have, like, almost like a mantra.

01:21:45.000 For sure with archery, like, the more you do it, the better you are.

01:21:49.000 Like, the way you take your arrow out of the quiver, the way you put it on the string, like, you want that to be to where if you are just gripped, right, it just happens.

01:21:59.000 Exactly like fighting.

01:22:01.000 I'd say that's probably inaccurate.

01:22:02.000 Same exact thing.

01:22:03.000 Dealing with anxiety and having this pattern that you've carved so deeply into your mind and your body, your neurons, that your body just knows automatically.

01:22:16.000 When I was competing, there was moments where I did something where I didn't even know I did it, and it was over already.

01:22:21.000 You black out.

01:22:21.000 Right.

01:22:22.000 You basically don't even remember what happened.

01:22:23.000 Well, you're just moving on this total reaction and training.

01:22:28.000 Yeah.

01:22:28.000 You know, and for archers, that moment, like, you have to kind of, like, carve that path.

01:22:34.000 Also because, like, if you're fighting, you get to spar a lot.

01:22:39.000 So you get to hit people a lot.

01:22:41.000 You get used to the idea of moving away and hitting someone.

01:22:43.000 But how often do you get to shoot an animal?

01:22:46.000 Right.

01:22:46.000 I mean, it's really rare.

01:22:48.000 I mean, you shoot one, like, maybe once a six months, you know, once a year if you're a busy person, if you're lucky.

01:22:55.000 Maybe you go a year and you don't even get a shot at one because maybe you get this one trip a year and, like, you know, you go somewhere and, like you were saying, you didn't see anything until you saw that fawn.

01:23:05.000 That could have been the whole trip.

01:23:06.000 Could have been the entire trip.

01:23:07.000 And it happens all the time.

01:23:08.000 You go, you'll be out there for days and days and days.

01:23:10.000 Totally. 0.99

01:23:10.000 You don't see a goddamn thing. 0.99

01:23:11.000 And then next year comes along. 1.00

01:23:13.000 And then next year sucks too.

01:23:14.000 And then the year after that, you finally get a shot and you're like, Jesus!

01:23:17.000 Your whole body's just racked with anticipation and nerves.

01:23:21.000 And I've seen people where their legs are shaking, their arms are shaking.

01:23:24.000 Like, I've seen videos of guys hunting elk where you see their arms shaking as they're pulling back.

01:23:29.000 Their body's just...

01:23:30.000 Jacked with adrenaline, like, Jesus!

01:23:32.000 And they're just trying to keep that pin in the general area of that animal and pull through the shot. 0.96

01:23:37.000 For those of you who don't know, this is like stepping into a place that you have never been before, you're not sure what's going on, and you whistle, and a six to eight hundred pound animal with Big chunks of sharp bone coming out of its head, 0.99

01:23:55.000 and its dick slapping against its belly, spraying piss all over the place, wants to come in and either mount you from behind or beat the piss out of you. 1.00

01:24:03.000 Yeah, or stab you with his antlers. 1.00

01:24:05.000 It's a forest horse with swords growing out of its head. 0.98

01:24:08.000 I mean, they're amazing.

01:24:11.000 And you freak out, man.

01:24:12.000 You freak out.

01:24:13.000 It is.

01:24:14.000 But one every five...

01:24:16.000 If you're an archery hunter, one bull every five years, or one successful...

01:24:23.000 Season in five is the national average.

01:24:26.000 That's why Cam Haynes is such a freak.

01:24:29.000 Because he hasn't been unsuccessful on an archery hunt since 2009. And the guy goes many times a year.

01:24:41.000 Many times a year.

01:24:42.000 He pounds it. 0.97

01:24:43.000 But all the ultra-marathon running and all the weightlifting, all the crazy shit he does and constant practice with archery, he just, like, when the moments come, he's so dialed in. 0.97

01:24:53.000 He's so ready to go. 0.88

01:24:54.000 It's really, really impressive.

01:24:56.000 You know, I mean, I don't think people understand.

01:24:58.000 So when I see people on, like, his Instagram page going, it takes no skill. 0.99

01:25:02.000 What you're doing is you're a coward. 0.98

01:25:04.000 Why don't you fight that thing hand-to-hand? 1.00

01:25:06.000 Oh, my God.

01:25:06.000 You have no idea.

01:25:07.000 You're looking at the one-tenth of one percent of all the hunters.

01:25:11.000 That's what that guy is.

01:25:12.000 He's the one-tenth of one percent of the hunters and he's out there being way more successful than anybody else doing something that's insanely difficult.

01:25:22.000 But to the uninitiated or the people that just have never experienced it, it looks like he's an animal-hating monster who's out there shooting God's beautiful creations.

01:25:31.000 Right.

01:25:32.000 Sometimes Ryan and I will go hunting with military guys.

01:25:36.000 We'll come out and back to just having the process.

01:25:41.000 It's the craziest thing.

01:25:42.000 Guys that are really good at this.

01:25:45.000 It's almost like a robotic action.

01:25:48.000 When it's go time, it's like sit there, pack down.

01:25:52.000 It's pretty wild to watch somebody that's so practiced at that.

01:25:56.000 The way they load, the way they reload, on target, on glass.

01:25:59.000 It's It's amazing, you know, when you see true pros at doing that.

01:26:03.000 Well, that's a totally different world when you have to shoot people, and they're trying to shoot you too.

01:26:08.000 I mean, you think of the anticipation, the anxiety that's involved in shooting a beautiful deer like you missed. 0.88

01:26:13.000 Now, imagine you're in some foreign land, and this is some enemy guy that you're engaging with, and he's trying to kill you.

01:26:21.000 I mean, that's where legit...

01:26:24.000 That's one of the interesting...

01:26:25.000 Do you know who Joel Turner is?

01:26:27.000 I do not.

01:26:27.000 Joel Turner has a whole series on target panic for archery.

01:26:31.000 It's really interesting.

01:26:32.000 It's an online series.

01:26:34.000 What is it called?

01:26:37.000 Something.

01:26:38.000 See if you can find the name.

01:26:40.000 Is this guy a traditional guy?

01:26:41.000 Yes.

01:26:41.000 I've heard of this guy.

01:26:42.000 Is he out of like Denver maybe?

01:26:44.000 Something like that.

01:26:44.000 I'm not sure where he's out of.

01:26:46.000 But it's an instinct, fighting instinct or something like that.

01:26:50.000 Iron Mind.

01:26:52.000 Is he the closed loop guy?

01:26:53.000 Yes, closed loop, open loop guy.

01:26:55.000 And he's got this whole system that he's put together, and I actually paid for it and watched it.

01:27:03.000 Very good stuff, very well thought out, very interesting stuff, but a lot of it is on the mindset because he was training police officers.

01:27:10.000 He's training SWAT team members and how to keep it together in the middle of a firefight.

01:27:16.000 And he actually was talking in one of the interviews that I saw him in about...

01:27:21.000 A conversation that he had with a police officer that was in a firefight with a bad guy and heard his words and his instructions going through and executed correctly and did the right thing while this guy's shooting in his car window and glass is flying and bullets are flying at him and he stayed calm and killed this guy who was shooting at him.

01:27:41.000 This process of having a thing, like a mantra that you relay in your head that relates to a physical action and that you drill it in yourself so it's unavoidable.

01:27:53.000 This is how you do things.

01:27:55.000 That situation we described with the bowl coming in...

01:27:59.000 Yeah, you shake.

01:28:01.000 Your heart goes a million miles an hour.

01:28:02.000 Like, if you don't have something to fall back on, the odds of you making a mistake, I feel, are way higher than you being successful.

01:28:10.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:28:11.000 You gotta, there's gotta be a thing in your brain that you can, like, press play on.

01:28:16.000 You know, and then once you do that, you could, like, there was an article that I read recently about, uh, it was about choking in sports.

01:28:24.000 And it was essentially, the article was essentially saying that what you have to do is figure out a process that removes your conscious mind from the equation.

01:28:34.000 Like, figure out a process of training where you know what to do.

01:28:37.000 Like, you have a basketball, someone's coming at you, you juke left, you go right.

01:28:41.000 You know how to do this.

01:28:42.000 You've done it so many times that this is just a natural reaction.

01:28:44.000 And get it to the point where you don't have to think about it, so you're not...

01:28:48.000 Overwhelmed by this moment and the anticipation of what if I fuck this up?

01:28:51.000 Oh my god, so many people are watching.

01:28:53.000 What happens here?

01:28:54.000 What if I do that?

01:28:55.000 And you'll see those moments where people just lock up and they panic.

01:28:59.000 You see it in fighting all the time.

01:29:01.000 You know, the trad bow thing versus the compound bow.

01:29:05.000 Traditional bow.

01:29:06.000 Traditional bow, like a recurve, right?

01:29:07.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:29:08.000 That introduces, that's when this shit can get crazy. 0.99

01:29:12.000 Because, say with the compound, you draw back, you hit the wall, right? 0.99

01:29:15.000 The bow only lets you draw back so far.

01:29:17.000 You look through a hole, you light up with another hole.

01:29:19.000 I mean, don't get me wrong, it's no picnic.

01:29:21.000 But then, you know, once you start shooting a traditional bow, there's nothing that's super repeatable.

01:29:26.000 I mean, you try to do it, but you pull it back as far, or if you don't pull it back far enough, you goof up.

01:29:32.000 You know what I mean?

01:29:33.000 There's no aiming.

01:29:34.000 And it's a funny experience when all of a sudden, the first time you draw back on an animal, you're like, what the hell is going...

01:29:40.000 Like, there's no reference, right?

01:29:42.000 Your brain is just kind of bouncing around.

01:29:44.000 And I think where that...

01:29:46.000 What was the guy's name?

01:29:47.000 Joel Turner.

01:29:48.000 Yeah, where he is just...

01:29:50.000 He shoots with a thumb loop.

01:29:52.000 He shoots Mongol style. 0.99

01:29:54.000 You know what Mongol style is?

01:29:56.000 No.

01:29:56.000 The Mongols used to have a thumb ring.

01:29:59.000 They would have a bone ring that they would wear around their thumb.

01:30:02.000 And that's what would fit on the groove of the string.

01:30:04.000 So they'd hook the string with their thumb and then close their index finger over it.

01:30:08.000 And they would draw back like this.

01:30:10.000 And according to Dan Carlin, if you've never heard this before, if you've heard me rant about this before, I'm sorry, just ignore me for a moment.

01:30:18.000 There's an amazing podcast series called Hardcore History.

01:30:23.000 It's by this guy who's a friend of mine.

01:30:24.000 His name is Dan Carlin.

01:30:25.000 He's this genius historian who's so good at relaying this.

01:30:29.000 He'll say he's not a historian.

01:30:30.000 He definitely is.

01:30:31.000 He's a super humble guy.

01:30:32.000 But he's so good at relaying Information in an entertaining and dramatic fashion and he has a series called The Wrath of the Khan.

01:30:42.000 And it's a five-part series.

01:30:44.000 You have to pay for it now, but it's like a dollar an episode.

01:30:47.000 It's so worth it.

01:30:48.000 It's worth a hundred times more than that.

01:30:50.000 But it's a five-part episode on the Mongols.

01:30:52.000 And he said that their bows were like a 160-pound draw. 0.99

01:30:55.000 They were just these sinewy fucking savages that were incredible archers. 0.99

01:31:00.000 They had developed this ability to release the arrow as the horse was in its gallop. 0.99

01:31:05.000 So when the horse was in the air, when there wasn't a disturbance, so they would time the release of the arrow to when the horse was actually in the air.

01:31:13.000 They had it, like, down.

01:31:14.000 And they had a thumb ring, and that's how they would draw back.

01:31:17.000 So not with your fingers like most people do.

01:31:19.000 They would draw back with the thumb, loop the index finger over the thumb, and for some reason...

01:31:25.000 They found that to be a better method.

01:31:26.000 It's like a primitive release.

01:31:30.000 That's the thing with the trad, right?

01:31:31.000 Your fingers, you can pluck.

01:31:33.000 There's a hundred different ways to screw up, right?

01:31:36.000 Whereas if you had that, you let go, it's probably a lot more consistent.

01:31:40.000 There it is.

01:31:42.000 You can see that.

01:31:42.000 That's the bone thumb rings.

01:31:45.000 A lot of people like to shoot that way now.

01:31:48.000 It's really kind of interesting stuff, man.

01:31:50.000 See how it holds?

01:31:51.000 And then you throw your finger over the top of that thumb ring, and your thumb pushes back on it, and your index finger closes over the top of your thumb.

01:32:02.000 It's not dissimilar to a modern release, right?

01:32:05.000 To a release in a lot of ways, yeah.

01:32:07.000 Like, when I shoot a compound bow, I use a Carter release.

01:32:12.000 It's a thumb trigger release.

01:32:14.000 I use one called the Wise Choice.

01:32:19.000 But I use a tension-based one, too, the Evolution.

01:32:21.000 It's one that John Dudley put out called the Silverback that I really prefer. 0.99

01:32:24.000 Does that screw you up?

01:32:25.000 No, no, no, it doesn't.

01:32:27.000 Because it's the same motion.

01:32:29.000 You know, the idea is you don't ever pull the trigger.

01:32:32.000 You lock in, you pull in place, you put your thumb over the trigger.

01:32:36.000 Then once you're in place, you concentrate on the muscles that are in the center of your back and you pull those and the release goes off and you get a surprise shot.

01:32:43.000 So the idea behind that is there's never a moment when you're like, now!

01:32:46.000 And you punch it and then you move the arrow or you move the bow.

01:32:50.000 Did I get it? 1.00

01:32:51.000 All that shit is out of your head. 1.00

01:32:53.000 Because all you're doing in the shot process is pulling and concentrating on those muscles in the center of your back and your scapula and contracting those. 1.00

01:33:01.000 And as you do that, the release just goes off because your thumb is pressing against that trigger.

01:33:06.000 But you have to resist that urge that everybody has.

01:33:10.000 Yeah, punching.

01:33:12.000 So that's the difference between John Dudley's approach versus Joel Turner's approach.

01:33:16.000 Joel Turner has the same approach and even talks about it when it comes to compound bows of using a thumb trigger of pulling and letting the shot go off But Dudley, he thinks that you should start off using a tension-based release,

01:33:33.000 which the way that works is you actually hold the safety, you hold the trigger until you lock in place.

01:33:39.000 Then once you're ready to execute, you release the safety and all it takes is like a couple extra pounds of pulling and it goes off.

01:33:45.000 Interesting.

01:33:46.000 Yeah, so it's like a Carter Evolution, or he has one that he makes called the Silverback, that is a two-finger version of the Carter Evolution, so he feels like the least amount of fingers that you have on it, the least amount of tension. 0.92

01:33:58.000 I mean, this is the point to try to, people are like, what the fuck are you rambling about?

01:34:02.000 What I'm trying to rambling about is this thing is insanely complicated. 0.96

01:34:06.000 So to the people that look at this and say, oh, there's no skill involved, and oh, you're just killing this defenseless animal, it is the most difficult way to get your food.

01:34:18.000 Yes.

01:34:18.000 It's the most difficult way.

01:34:20.000 There's no more difficult way to get your food than shooting an animal with a bow and arrow.

01:34:24.000 It doesn't exist. 1.00

01:34:25.000 Unless you want to fucking use a spear. 0.99

01:34:27.000 I mean, I guess that's... 0.99

01:34:28.000 It is not getting groceries.

01:34:30.000 I guess you could jump out of a tree with a knife and...

01:34:32.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:34:32.000 But that's stupid. 1.00

01:34:33.000 I mean, but... 1.00

01:34:34.000 It is.

01:34:35.000 You know, the animal comes first, right?

01:34:37.000 Like, for me, if it is proficient and proven to be proficient, when Kent and I were making the switch to go back to traditional archery...

01:34:47.000 Why'd you guys decide to do that?

01:34:49.000 Man, I got so tired of the stuff.

01:34:52.000 Yeah, it was tough.

01:34:53.000 Stuff changing every year, new sights, new strings, new this, new that.

01:34:58.000 I got to hate, hate setting up a compound bow. 0.89

01:35:01.000 I hated it.

01:35:02.000 Why? 0.99

01:35:03.000 Because there's just so much shit going on, and I'm like, oh man, is that me? 1.00

01:35:07.000 Or is the bow out of tune? 0.99

01:35:08.000 Did my string stretch?

01:35:09.000 Cam timing and twisting your strings.

01:35:12.000 I'm going back for this year.

01:35:14.000 I'm going to get a bow, but to Cal's point, plus...

01:35:16.000 Wait a minute, are you going back to traditional, or are you going back to compound?

01:35:19.000 I'm going back to compound.

01:35:20.000 A company is making...

01:35:22.000 No, called G5. Really nice bows and a camouflage pattern, and I'm pretty excited.

01:35:26.000 And plus, I don't know, I've had very mixed success.

01:35:31.000 I've struggled a little bit.

01:35:32.000 Yeah, I'm sure.

01:35:34.000 How could you not?

01:35:35.000 But frankly, the simplicity of it is so appealing, you know what I mean?

01:35:42.000 It's fantastic, right?

01:35:44.000 Versus setting everything up and Plus, you know, you get to a point where a modern compound bow, if you practice a lot, meaning for years, right, you'll get to 90 yards, to where you are proficient all day.

01:35:56.000 People are going to complain, and I don't know.

01:35:59.000 It's not really that ethical for most people to shoot at 90 yards, but it is for a guy like John Dudley, or, you know, a guy like Cameron Haynes, because they do it all day, every day.

01:36:09.000 This man is a very technically proficient shooter in anything that he shoots, and he won't say it, but...

01:36:16.000 We used to sit in the ski area parking lot, Greyhawk parking lot, and 106 yards is as far as my adjustable sight would go on my bow.

01:36:26.000 So he would stand there and he could shoot a lot further.

01:36:29.000 But, I mean, the groups that he would put in at 106 yards were amazing because he's got that mind to do it. 0.56

01:36:35.000 So he can shoot.

01:36:36.000 You know, I don't know.

01:36:38.000 But the thing is, is that after a while you get to the point where...

01:36:42.000 I don't want to shoot something at 50 yards.

01:36:45.000 I want to shoot my next elk at 15 yards.

01:36:48.000 You know what I mean? 0.99

01:36:49.000 So I think that's largely it.

01:36:51.000 And I think, without a doubt, in the past three years, I've become way better at hunting.

01:36:56.000 I mean, Cal's killed a bull both years with his trad.

01:37:00.000 I missed a nice bull two years ago.

01:37:02.000 But it's just hard. 0.99

01:37:05.000 And if nothing else, you're going to get way better at hunting in the sense that you're going to hunt more because you're not going to kill shit. 0.99

01:37:11.000 At first, right? 0.98

01:37:12.000 But, you know, having to go from, let's just say, 80 is a max yard, and I don't want to get into the argument about distance, but let's just say that was, you know, your max, max on a perfect situation.

01:37:23.000 With a compound bow.

01:37:24.000 With a compound bow.

01:37:25.000 Down to, say, 25 or 30 yards.

01:37:30.000 It's interesting.

01:37:30.000 It just makes you, in your head, just so much more...

01:37:34.000 You have to try so much harder, you know, and I don't know.

01:37:38.000 I just wanted that experience.

01:37:39.000 Even people that have no desire whatsoever to hunt, even if you're a lifelong vegetarian, you're never going to eat meat, just go shoot a bow and arrow at a target.

01:37:48.000 It is so relaxing in some weird meditative way.

01:37:53.000 It cleanses your mind in some strange way.

01:37:55.000 It's zen stuff, man.

01:37:56.000 Yeah, it's like fly fishing kind of same thing.

01:37:59.000 It's like you're not necessarily I don't you have to concentrate but at the same time It's like taking a nap or something you go shoot for 20 minutes 30 minutes and you're done.

01:38:07.000 You're like, okay What was I thinking about before?

01:38:09.000 Yeah.

01:38:10.000 Oh, I love to do it when I've got like a business issue I'm dealing with or Something I'm trying to like sort out in my mind. 0.97

01:38:16.000 I just go out my yard I got a big rubber elk out there at 85 yards and I'll just start shooting that sucker and And you don't think about nothing but that shot. 0.55

01:38:24.000 You just center that pin, try to stay calm, relax your hand, let the bow go off. 0.97

01:38:29.000 There's no room for anything else.

01:38:31.000 And it's quiet.

01:38:32.000 And you walk up there, you pull your arrows out, you walk back, you're concentrating.

01:38:36.000 The whole process, I don't know, I think it's...

01:38:39.000 It's cleansing in some sort of a weird way.

01:38:41.000 And I'm not a traditional bow shooter, but I would imagine that would accentuate it even further.

01:38:45.000 Because it's even more instinctive.

01:38:49.000 You have that involved as well.

01:38:51.000 So instead of using a sight, you're sort of like...

01:38:55.000 You're calculating in your mind the drop of the arrow over distance.

01:38:58.000 It can, but it can be more frustrating, too.

01:39:01.000 Way more with the compound I've gone out. 0.99

01:39:03.000 I mean, with the recurve, I've gone out and shot two arrows and was like, fuck this. 0.99

01:39:06.000 I'm done. 0.99

01:39:08.000 But, you know, Kenton and I, our first accountant gal retired.

01:39:18.000 And so we all went out and had some beers with her, and I was a little fuzzy the next morning, and I forgot my tags.

01:39:23.000 So I was like, I'm just going to call for Kenton.

01:39:27.000 And we took off into the woods and called the bull in within 20 minutes.

01:39:33.000 Didn't have a shot at.

01:39:34.000 Oh my gosh, that's a great day.

01:39:35.000 We ended up calling in three more bulls that day.

01:39:39.000 But the bull that Kenton got a shot at, he would have shot four times.

01:39:47.000 Before it ultimately came in to recurve distance.

01:39:51.000 Right.

01:39:51.000 But it did come in.

01:39:54.000 It was in four yards at one point.

01:39:56.000 Oh my god!

01:39:57.000 Yeah, I mean, it was like this close.

01:39:59.000 That's so crazy to have an animal that big, that close to you.

01:40:02.000 It was crazy, but to Cal's point, the beauty was that it was hanging up out at 50 yards for five minutes, and that would have been the end of that experience, right?

01:40:12.000 I would have not had that same experience.

01:40:14.000 And then it comes up, and to Cal, it licked you, basically, right?

01:40:18.000 It came in, and he didn't have a tag.

01:40:20.000 I had my ball cap in front of my face.

01:40:21.000 I was looking through the mesh in the back of my cap.

01:40:23.000 Really?

01:40:24.000 Yeah, I was saying, it's screaming, and it comes straight towards me, but it kind of caught me to where I didn't have a shot.

01:40:31.000 And then it went and looked and I missed it.

01:40:33.000 I'll never forget that.

01:40:35.000 But needless to say, it was the experience of having to get that close is really cool.

01:40:43.000 You know what I mean?

01:40:44.000 Like I said, it would have been done and we'd have been packing it out and it would have been cool, but whatever.

01:40:49.000 And that would have been incredible to shoot it there too.

01:40:51.000 But just to be that close and visceral and it's like, holy smokes.

01:40:56.000 I mean, this thing is here.

01:40:58.000 Yeah.

01:40:59.000 Yeah, it's one of the things that I talked about with Jason Hairston from Kuyu.

01:41:05.000 We were talking about the difference between like mountaineering and hunting.

01:41:08.000 And it's like all these things and hiking and hunting.

01:41:11.000 It's like all these things are beautiful and they're amazing.

01:41:14.000 But then add to that this experience of this really intense moment with a wild animal where you have to execute something.

01:41:23.000 You have to execute a shot.

01:41:25.000 Everything has to come together. 0.98

01:41:26.000 It has to come together perfectly.

01:41:28.000 And that is what makes this so addictive.

01:41:31.000 And that's something that, man, I try to relay that to people.

01:41:35.000 And I try to explain it, but I just feel like my words aren't adequate.

01:41:38.000 I feel like everything I always say to describe it, I feel like I'm just rambling and it's not going to work.

01:41:44.000 Because you kind of have to see it to understand.

01:41:47.000 Yeah, I mean, there's very little reference, right?

01:41:50.000 And that's what you're talking about.

01:41:51.000 It's like you can say, well, it's like, you know, imagine, you know, skiing a perfect, you know, 50 degrees powder line, right?

01:41:58.000 Or whatever.

01:41:58.000 Something kind of, you know, heavy with consequence.

01:42:00.000 But it's totally different than that.

01:42:03.000 It's like...

01:42:05.000 It's just raw.

01:42:06.000 I don't know how else to describe it.

01:42:07.000 There's no else to describe it.

01:42:08.000 There's certain words.

01:42:09.000 There's no words for a giant mushroom trip.

01:42:11.000 I've tried to talk to people who have never done anything.

01:42:13.000 Like, what's it like?

01:42:14.000 You see things?

01:42:15.000 You see pretty colors?

01:42:16.000 Is it really worth it?

01:42:17.000 You can see God.

01:42:19.000 You just got to take enough.

01:42:21.000 Like, yeah, you can definitely see colors.

01:42:23.000 But, I mean, just saying those words to people.

01:42:26.000 And then, you know, you talk to somebody about it.

01:42:28.000 And then, like, a year later, they go, dude, I did it.

01:42:30.000 Whoa.

01:42:31.000 Like a buddy of mine recently just did DMT and he had talked about it for a long time and then he finally did it and then he just sent me a text message.

01:42:38.000 He's like, dude, I'm at the elves.

01:42:40.000 I was like, oh, there you go.

01:42:41.000 He texted you mid-trip?

01:42:42.000 No, no, no.

01:42:43.000 He texted me after it was over because he had been thinking about doing it forever.

01:42:47.000 And then it's one of those things like unless you do it, whatever I say, the words that I'm using to describe, they're just not going to work.

01:42:54.000 I think that's the case with so many experiences in life.

01:42:56.000 Like try to describe being in love to someone who's never been in a relationship.

01:43:00.000 There's no way.

01:43:01.000 You could never do it.

01:43:02.000 You can never explain the love of your children to someone who doesn't have kids.

01:43:05.000 What is this, like the way I love my dog?

01:43:08.000 Oh, man.

01:43:10.000 Figure it out.

01:43:11.000 It's like, you know, and I think certain intense experiences in life, like hunting, or just even forget the hunting.

01:43:19.000 I mean, just being in the woods, like attempting to hunt an animal is an insane, almost psychedelic experience.

01:43:26.000 It's one of the things that I describe to people the first trip that we went to the Missouri Breaks when I shot that deer.

01:43:32.000 When I locked eyes with that animal, For the first time, and I was sitting on a pack looking down the scope of this rifle, and I was looking at this animal, and then I look at this animal through this rifle scope, and he's looking at me.

01:43:47.000 I was like, this is a weird life form that's living in this very barren and desolate place where there's no people for miles.

01:43:58.000 And I'm locking eyes with this thing and it was oddly psychedelic.

01:44:02.000 It was oddly like paradigm shifting.

01:44:04.000 Like the moment was so intense and weird.

01:44:07.000 I was like, wow, I didn't expect this.

01:44:09.000 Like this is, this is like, I mean, I'm feeling like, cause this thing is looking at us.

01:44:15.000 I'm feeling that this thing is thinking like, what are you?

01:44:19.000 And what are you doing?

01:44:20.000 It's probably never seen a person before.

01:44:22.000 What are you?

01:44:23.000 What are you doing here?

01:44:24.000 And should I be worried about you?

01:44:25.000 He's going, that wasn't here yesterday.

01:44:27.000 What is that?

01:44:28.000 What is that?

01:44:29.000 And, you know, all he's seeing is, like, baseball hat and the metal barrel of a rifle.

01:44:34.000 He's not seeing much.

01:44:35.000 He's just seeing us resting over the top of a ridge looking down on him. 0.99

01:44:38.000 He's like, what the fuck is that? 0.99

01:44:41.000 It's a really weird, intense experience. 0.99

01:44:45.000 It is.

01:44:46.000 And because you do look at things in a much different way.

01:44:52.000 And, you know, kind of the point of talking about all this public land stuff is that I do feel like people who hunt and fish carry a big load of this burden, right, through the taxes that we pay.

01:45:05.000 That are taxes that if you don't hunt or fish, you don't pay them.

01:45:08.000 And we've highlighted that on the show, the actual amount of it.

01:45:12.000 We've showed, like, from the Rocky Mountain Elf Foundation, their Instagram page.

01:45:15.000 They have a really good Instagram page that has a bunch of different examples of different states of the sheer volume of money that comes in because, directly because, of hunting and fishing.

01:45:26.000 And it's staggering.

01:45:28.000 It's in the billions.

01:45:28.000 And it is by far above and beyond anything else, by far, The largest amount of conservation money that comes into this country.

01:45:37.000 The largest by far.

01:45:39.000 It is.

01:45:39.000 Nothing even close.

01:45:40.000 Hunter fishermen.

01:45:41.000 Nothing even close.

01:45:43.000 It's amazing when you think about it that way.

01:45:44.000 In that sense, this system that we have here with public land and with using these tax dollars to pay for all the wildlife biologists, to pay for the fish and game, to pay for the population management.

01:45:56.000 It's amazing.

01:45:57.000 It's an amazing system.

01:45:58.000 But if you're a hiker that You know, you're a peak bagger, right?

01:46:02.000 You're finding names on the map and you're like, I'm going to hike to this lake or I'm going to hike to this peak.

01:46:07.000 That's what you call them, a peak bagger?

01:46:09.000 Yeah, like bagging, you know.

01:46:10.000 You bag a peak?

01:46:11.000 How many peaks have you been to?

01:46:12.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:46:13.000 That's interesting, a peak bagger.

01:46:15.000 Big in that Boulder community, right?

01:46:18.000 Boulder?

01:46:18.000 Yeah, 14ers and, you know, bagging a lot of peaks.

01:46:22.000 Yeah, and people fall off those peaks too, man.

01:46:24.000 Yes, they get stuck up there. 0.96

01:46:25.000 Woo, that sucks!

01:46:27.000 But, you know, you are taking a trail, an established trail, and you're covering miles and you're getting to your goal, and maybe you're snapping a picture or spending a night, and then you're coming back on that trail, or maybe it's a different trail.

01:46:42.000 Whereas, you know, a hunter is...

01:46:45.000 As soon as you step away from the truck and are out the trailhead, you are plotting your own course.

01:46:54.000 You're making your own moves, and it is a totally different experience.

01:47:00.000 Everything means something different to you.

01:47:02.000 You're looking at it in a different way.

01:47:03.000 You're trying to interpret things.

01:47:04.000 Different signs and you're...

01:47:07.000 You have no path.

01:47:08.000 Your choices are pretty much limitless.

01:47:11.000 They're absolutely limitless.

01:47:13.000 When you leave, as soon as you get off the trail, you're just like...

01:47:18.000 Hopefully you hear something or you see something or you smell something and that begins your day.

01:47:23.000 But you don't know.

01:47:24.000 You might not leave 100 yards that day and you might cover...

01:47:28.000 It might be a heavy 8-mile, 5,000-foot day.

01:47:33.000 You don't know.

01:47:33.000 And that's...

01:47:34.000 I don't know.

01:47:35.000 That's the craziest thing.

01:47:35.000 You just have to be prepared for whatever.

01:47:38.000 And so, you know, you get people who are like, well, there aren't any wolves here anymore.

01:47:41.000 Because in Idaho, wolves were, you could see them a lot, especially in the Ketchum area, the Loman area.

01:47:49.000 They're wolves that, you know, they're smart critters.

01:47:52.000 They know that, they knew that nobody was going to shoot at them.

01:47:55.000 And so they were a fairly common occurrence to see.

01:47:58.000 And then once the season opened, once they let people go out and they issued tags, they picked it up really quick.

01:48:06.000 And you didn't just see them hanging out next to the road.

01:48:08.000 And people said, well, the hunters killed all the wolves.

01:48:11.000 But oddly enough, the hunters are reporting wolf sightings.

01:48:15.000 I don't know.

01:48:15.000 I saw this.

01:48:16.000 Yeah, they're not killing all the wolves.

01:48:18.000 They're killing a pretty small number, right?

01:48:20.000 Yeah.

01:48:20.000 We're doing a poor job as hunters.

01:48:22.000 We're not getting the numbers that we're supposed to get.

01:48:25.000 So what do they do?

01:48:27.000 Are they hiring professional wolf killers to go after wolves like they're doing in California to go after cougars?

01:48:34.000 Since they...

01:48:34.000 Killed, since they stopped the hunting season on mountain lions, they haven't stopped killing mountain lions.

01:48:39.000 That's something people don't understand.

01:48:41.000 Like, there was a depredation order on a mountain lion up in the Malibu Mountains that had killed 11 alpaca and a goat in one sitting. 1.00

01:48:49.000 Yeah, this big fucker just... 0.99

01:48:51.000 And they know the lion, too, because it's tagged. 1.00

01:48:54.000 It has a collar on it. 1.00

01:48:55.000 And this fucker just found an alpaca farm and just went to town. 1.00

01:48:59.000 Just had a glory killing spree. 1.00

01:49:01.000 Wait, so in California they can't...

01:49:02.000 No mountain lion hunting whatsoever, but they're everywhere, especially in rural areas.

01:49:10.000 There's a place called Tahone Ranch where that bull came from that you see out front.

01:49:13.000 There's one lake that they have, like a pond they have out there, and they have a trail cam up.

01:49:17.000 They've got 17 different mountain lions on trail cam.

01:49:21.000 Oh my gosh.

01:49:22.000 You hear about him eating people fairly often out here, huh?

01:49:24.000 Well, it can.

01:49:25.000 A lot of it's joggers or bikers, like people on trail bikes, because they think they're trying to get away.

01:49:32.000 Yeah.

01:49:33.000 It's almost like a cat with a ball of yarn.

01:49:35.000 They just can't help themselves.

01:49:36.000 Fight or flight response.

01:49:37.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:49:37.000 Someone's running, they're like, Bitch, where you going? 1.00

01:49:40.000 You know, the thing is, it's like, hunters are doing something different than your typical recreator out there. 0.98

01:49:49.000 You know, we're not sticking to a game plan, so I feel like...

01:49:53.000 And you're there different hours?

01:49:54.000 Yeah, different hours.

01:49:56.000 And you're making predator-prey noises, right?

01:49:58.000 Yeah.

01:49:59.000 Yeah, you're just doing things differently.

01:50:00.000 So I feel like I get a little torque sometimes where people think, oh, well, of course hunters are going to say there's wolves out there.

01:50:07.000 Yeah.

01:50:08.000 This is good information for biologists because we're out there actually, our point in the woods is being out there looking for animals.

01:50:16.000 Now, one of the reasons why I wanted to have you guys on is to really sort of discuss this public land issue and also to allow people to understand what's at stake and to give them options to look into and different resources that they can check in on,

01:50:35.000 like backcountry hunters and anglers.

01:50:40.000 Yeah, back country hunters and anglers.

01:50:43.000 I can't say it.

01:50:44.000 My mouth starts shutting down after two hours these days.

01:50:47.000 But what they're doing is amazing, highlighting what this is and how important this is.

01:50:53.000 What are the other things that people can do if they want to look into this stuff?

01:50:56.000 Yeah, so BHA is Big Loud Voice, and I think they're one of the best groups out there right now to really just raise awareness on public lands and access issues.

01:51:08.000 Teddy Roosevelt Conservation Partnership does a phenomenal job.

01:51:12.000 There it is.

01:51:13.000 Backcountry Hunters and Anglers.

01:51:15.000 National Wildlife Federation does a crazy job.

01:51:16.000 And by the way, you can buy that t-shirt there too, folks.

01:51:18.000 If you want to buy that public land owner t-shirt, they have it there.

01:51:21.000 Yes.

01:51:22.000 Now, so what the main issue is, and Kent and I, we talked about, you know, you have an incredible platform here, Joe, and we don't want to waste it.

01:51:32.000 So this is a non-partisan issue.

01:51:36.000 If you don't like hunters or anglers...

01:51:41.000 That is still your land.

01:51:42.000 If you never leave downtown LA, all this public land contributes to your quality of life through clean air, clean water.

01:51:51.000 Just knowing that it's there should be something that is warm and cozy for you because it is your birthright as an American.

01:52:01.000 In this country where 95% of the people eat meat, it might even be higher than that.

01:52:07.000 It's depending upon it.

01:52:10.000 There's so many discussions these days about where your food comes from.

01:52:15.000 There's no better way to find out where your food comes from than to actually go out and get it.

01:52:20.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:52:21.000 Absolutely.

01:52:22.000 But, man, if you're buying beef or lamb off the grocery store shelf, those grazing permits that we talked about, a lot of that happens on federally managed lands, whether it's BLM or Forest Service ground.

01:52:37.000 And the thing is, this is nonpartisan, again.

01:52:41.000 And one of the things that ticked me off about old Jason Chavez on HR 621 is he said, hey, you know, this started under Obama.

01:52:50.000 No, you said Clinton.

01:52:51.000 Or Clinton, right. 0.95

01:52:52.000 Yeah, I said Clinton designated these lands as useless.

01:52:55.000 Yeah. 0.75

01:52:56.000 Who cares?

01:52:57.000 Yeah.

01:52:57.000 I don't care.

01:52:58.000 If it was Clinton, Obama, Trump, that doesn't matter.

01:53:00.000 Yeah, who cares?

01:53:01.000 You're taking the land.

01:53:02.000 Nixon, who cares?

01:53:02.000 Yeah.

01:53:03.000 I mean, to Kyle's point, too...

01:53:05.000 It's a nonpartisan issue.

01:53:07.000 And I think a lot of times people would like you to believe, oh, if you're a Republican, you're against this.

01:53:12.000 Or if you're, you know, pro-Second Amendment, you can't vote for that and this.

01:53:17.000 And the fact is, is that you can.

01:53:19.000 If you have a Republican leader in your area...

01:53:24.000 They can change their mind.

01:53:25.000 You need to be involved, right?

01:53:26.000 And if that's the way you feel, that's great.

01:53:29.000 But you have to realize that you can have your cake and eat it, too.

01:53:32.000 It doesn't have to be one or the other.

01:53:34.000 Like, you know what I mean?

01:53:35.000 You can be conservative and still be pro-public lands, you know?

01:53:39.000 And you need to work and call and do what you need to change them if they're not.

01:53:44.000 Because once it's gone, it's gone.

01:53:45.000 And use social media, because social media is an amazing tool, and that's what killed HR 621. It was directly killed by social media, and it was killed quick.

01:53:54.000 It was killed in a couple of weeks.

01:53:56.000 You know, the pressure that they faced from guys like me posting it to 1.8 million people on Instagram, 1.5 million people on Facebook.

01:54:04.000 3 million or whatever the fuck it is on Twitter like all those people add up and then those people to find out about it they jump in and they realize that this is a this is a This it's a really important issue.

01:54:16.000 It's a giant issue and Rinello always points out that he's and by the way Rinello wrote a great article about all this and about how Killing HR 621 is just one battle in the overall war and we're not there's no not out of the woods by any stretch of the imagination and that articles available right now if you go to His Twitter it's on I think it's on meat eater.com Is that where it is?

01:54:41.000 Yeah, but no, that's not that's one but there's one that I tweeted today and This is the one from January 20th.

01:54:48.000 There's one that I tweeted today that he just recently wrote.

01:54:51.000 And he calls himself a political eunuch because he's like, look, he goes, the Republicans want to sell off the land and the Democrats want to take away your guns. 0.98

01:55:00.000 He's like, I don't know where the fuck to go, you know, in that sense. 0.92

01:55:03.000 Well, my point simply is that you can change, you know what I mean? 0.97

01:55:07.000 It's like if you need, it's not a partisan, it shouldn't be a partisan issue.

01:55:11.000 Your representatives are there to represent your interests.

01:55:15.000 This is the article.

01:55:16.000 It's Roosevelt, robber barons, and the continued fight for our public lands.

01:55:21.000 And he just published it today.

01:55:23.000 And is that on meat-eater.com?

01:55:25.000 Yes.

01:55:26.000 The meat-eater.com?

01:55:27.000 Somebody owns meat-eater.com.

01:55:29.000 Yeah, isn't that weird? 1.00

01:55:29.000 Give it up, bitch. 1.00

01:55:31.000 I'm going to give it up. 1.00

01:55:33.000 What is MeatEater.com?

01:55:34.000 Go to MeatEater.com.

01:55:35.000 What is that?

01:55:36.000 Is it available as one of those things?

01:55:38.000 It has been just like a picture of a steak for years.

01:55:42.000 There you go.

01:55:42.000 Garlic top sirloin.

01:55:43.000 Yum.

01:55:44.000 It's delicious.

01:55:44.000 Best cow in school.

01:55:45.000 So is this like someone just holding it?

01:55:48.000 I think the person may have died or something.

01:55:50.000 No, they're dead.

01:55:52.000 So 622 is going to...

01:55:54.000 Yeah, they have a fork with a piece of meat.

01:55:56.000 Look, here is my food.

01:55:58.000 Chicken drumstick.

01:55:59.000 Look at my food.

01:56:01.000 HR 622 is going to gut...

01:56:03.000 We're good to go.

01:56:29.000 The thing is, if you want to know what you can do, you have got to sign these petitions that are going around.

01:56:36.000 TRCP's got a great one, the Sportswins Pledge.

01:56:39.000 You know, join a rod and gun club, BHA, National Wildlife Federation.

01:56:44.000 These plans are here for everybody.

01:56:45.000 It's not just hunters and fishermen.

01:56:48.000 And, man, all you got to do is write emails and call your officials that are there to represent you.

01:56:58.000 And by the way, Backcountry Hunters and Anglers has a form that you could fill out on their site.

01:57:03.000 They'll send it for you.

01:57:05.000 You enter in your email.

01:57:06.000 They have a letter that's already written up.

01:57:09.000 So it's super easy to do.

01:57:10.000 And they'll direct you to where it needs to be sent.

01:57:14.000 And they're doing a great job of setting that up.

01:57:17.000 And letting people know.

01:57:18.000 I mean, we've got to be wise about this.

01:57:21.000 We have an amazing place.

01:57:23.000 It's an amazing thing.

01:57:24.000 The fact that you guys live, like you were saying, that, what is it?

01:57:28.000 Church?

01:57:28.000 Frank Church?

01:57:29.000 Frank Church Wilderness. 0.99

01:57:31.000 I mean, can you imagine if you went up there and it was a fucking mall? 0.99

01:57:34.000 Oh. 0.99

01:57:35.000 You know, somebody chopped all the trees down and put up a go-kart thing.

01:57:40.000 I mean, so if you look at the state land example, right, these state lands are there to make money for the states, and like we said, state gets in trouble, they sell those lands.

01:57:49.000 Yeah.

01:57:49.000 Fire, anything, right?

01:57:51.000 It just sucks all the money out of the state, and then the states literally mandated not to have a negative balance.

01:57:57.000 So once that happens, it's like, how are we going to make our money?

01:58:00.000 How is Roosevelt so wise?

01:58:03.000 Oh, he had just panic, fear of God put into him because he had this realization that he's like, oh my God, the entire reason I am who I am today is because I had this opportunity to go out and chase animals.

01:58:16.000 And if I saw a horizon line, I could go over the top of it because nobody owned it.

01:58:21.000 Right.

01:58:22.000 He's like, that made me who I am.

01:58:24.000 I got to try to make sure that this is here for the next person.

01:58:27.000 Right.

01:58:28.000 Well, a lot of people don't understand that in many countries that's not really possible, and that's actually the story of Robin Hood.

01:58:35.000 The story of Robin Hood wasn't really about stealing from the rich and stealing their money and giving it to the poor.

01:58:41.000 It was about hunting lands.

01:58:43.000 Stealing food.

01:58:44.000 Yeah, it was about the king did not let anyone hunt.

01:58:48.000 In the kingdom's hunting lands. 1.00

01:58:50.000 And Robin Hood was like, fuck you. 1.00

01:58:52.000 And he went out there and he was shooting deer and getting people food because people were starving. 1.00

01:58:57.000 And that is something that we can do here in America.

01:59:01.000 It's one of the reasons why you get so much hate mail from Europe.

01:59:04.000 You got a lot of hate mail from places where they don't have recreational hunting.

01:59:07.000 To them, they don't even understand.

01:59:09.000 And they're eating steak.

01:59:10.000 They're eating steak.

01:59:12.000 My wife got in an argument with one of her friend's husbands where she was saying that I was on a hunting trip.

01:59:19.000 And this guy was eating a steak.

01:59:21.000 Carving a steak.

01:59:23.000 Literally, they're at dinner.

01:59:24.000 And he's like, well, that's deplorable.

01:59:25.000 That's deplorable.

01:59:27.000 He hunts animals?

01:59:27.000 You don't have to do that.

01:59:29.000 And she's like, you're eating a steak.

01:59:31.000 She's like, well, these animals are farmed animals.

01:59:33.000 She goes, well, don't you think that that animal lived a horrific existence and then finally was killed?

01:59:39.000 You think that's better than someone just out of nowhere, you're hiding behind a bush making cow calls and you blast an arrow through the heart of some wild beast and then take that thing down off the mountain.

01:59:49.000 You have the experience, you have the food, you also have this wild encounter.

01:59:54.000 With this magnificent beast that you have this connection to that every time you eat, like every time I eat a steak off of that elk, I think about the experience of hunting that thing.

02:00:05.000 I think about seeing it.

02:00:06.000 I think about cutting it up and carrying it out of there.

02:00:09.000 The whole thing about it is all connected.

02:00:13.000 Loading it into the truck, hoisting it up.

02:00:15.000 The whole thing is in my mind every time I cut into the meat.

02:00:19.000 People, at the end of the day, Genetically hardwired to do that.

02:00:24.000 Yeah, it's weird.

02:00:26.000 You know?

02:00:26.000 It's weird when you tap into that file.

02:00:28.000 Like, oh, you didn't know about this file.

02:00:30.000 It's working for it, man.

02:00:32.000 I mean, that's the other experience on public lands.

02:00:34.000 There is...

02:00:35.000 It's just...

02:00:37.000 We talk about this at length all the time, and Kenton's got this, like, knicker analogy, and we're walking around SHOT Show, and there's this European hunting company down the road, and he stops me, and he's like, Hey, Cal.

02:00:49.000 It's like, we lose all this land, this is what we're gonna be making.

02:00:53.000 Knickers? 0.98

02:00:53.000 Well, you know, it's like this fake hunting. 0.98

02:00:56.000 I'm not going to say there's fake hunting, but it's like canned experience, right?

02:01:00.000 Shooting clothes, not hunting clothes.

02:01:02.000 Let's go here.

02:01:03.000 Private lands where they release pheasants out of the back of a truck.

02:01:07.000 And that does happen, folks.

02:01:08.000 There's a thing called pheasant shoots, European pheasant shoots, and they literally release these birds, and the birds fly away, and guys stand there with guns, waiting for them to release from their cage and shoot them.

02:01:20.000 That's how Dick Cheney shot his friend.

02:01:22.000 Remember that?

02:01:23.000 People don't remember that story. 1.00

02:01:25.000 He shot his friend in the fucking face. 1.00

02:01:27.000 And that was a canned hunt, where they just open, they literally open a can, the birds fly out, and they wait, and boom, and shoot them. 1.00

02:01:35.000 We got them!

02:01:36.000 I mean, the hunting thing, it's honestly like being outside of your...

02:01:41.000 Your comfort zone, that is it.

02:01:42.000 Yeah.

02:01:43.000 I mean, you know, and if that's not going to happen, I don't know.

02:01:47.000 I'm not interested.

02:01:48.000 No, man.

02:01:48.000 The public hunting experience is, man, we're all, you know, that's why you follow the rules, right?

02:01:54.000 Yeah.

02:01:55.000 Because everybody gets the same experience then.

02:01:57.000 Right.

02:01:59.000 On our side, we are constantly, like, analyzing our clothing and analyzing our days, and we're getting, to be totally truthful, man, life at First Light's pretty freaking good, man.

02:02:12.000 We get to spend a lot of days in the woods, way more than your average Joe gets to, and...

02:02:18.000 That's how we make stuff good.

02:02:20.000 Right.

02:02:22.000 Well, the way you guys do it is you have new pieces, and then you give them to your representatives, like people that you guys have.

02:02:30.000 What do you guys call them?

02:02:32.000 Ambassadors or something like that?

02:02:33.000 What do you call them?

02:02:34.000 You know, team guys.

02:02:35.000 Team guys.

02:02:36.000 So you have a bunch of guys who I follow on Instagram, hardcore hunters who spend a giant chunk of their life out in the woods.

02:02:43.000 Yes, some are public.

02:02:45.000 Some are not.

02:02:46.000 But the idea is to send them to people that use them in tons of different environments.

02:02:50.000 Like, you know, we hunt in the Rockies, so, you know, we've got plenty of experience there, but it's cool.

02:02:56.000 We'll send stuff to, you know, guys hunting in BC or guys hunting in AK where it's raining all the time.

02:03:03.000 But that's the goal, you know, where it's hot.

02:03:06.000 But being able to send stuff out and have it used in these tons of different environments allows us just to build better stuff, you know?

02:03:13.000 Yeah, and it's a real trial and error thing where you're taking these super experienced guys.

02:03:18.000 And when you said some guys are public, some guys are not, what you mean is some guys have public profiles and some guys, they just stay under the radar and just...

02:03:27.000 You have a lot of guys like that, right?

02:03:44.000 You know, sometimes very little experience, and sometimes their input is the most valuable.

02:03:48.000 For sure.

02:03:48.000 Because you get a bunch of people who are like, I know it all.

02:03:51.000 Right.

02:03:52.000 Oh, no, don't worry about that.

02:03:53.000 Nobody does that.

02:03:54.000 And then you get this, you know, girl from Ohio, and she's like, well, what about this?

02:04:00.000 And this happened to me.

02:04:01.000 And you're like...

02:04:04.000 Really?

02:04:04.000 Yeah.

02:04:05.000 You know, because it's a fresh, brand new perspective.

02:04:08.000 Somebody who just started hunting.

02:04:09.000 And I think that's been incredibly valuable on our line, too.

02:04:13.000 Living there, too, it's living in the mountains.

02:04:15.000 You know, you get to take stuff from all different sports, whether you're, you know, riding your bike or whether you're backcountry skiing.

02:04:23.000 Like, a lot of that stuff crosses over, you know, and I think that allows us to round things out nicely.

02:04:29.000 Yeah.

02:04:30.000 Hunting is quite different than hiking, right?

02:04:33.000 Hiking, people want to build the lightest thing they can build that can do whatever.

02:04:37.000 Hunting is totally different.

02:04:38.000 You're off the trail.

02:04:39.000 You're going through bushes.

02:04:40.000 You kind of have to throw that lightest thing out the window.

02:04:43.000 You more have to approach it of like, how heavy can I actually build this and have it still work well?

02:04:48.000 Because it's going to get thrashed.

02:04:50.000 You know what I mean?

02:04:51.000 So you've got to approach it from kind of a different shift and how, you know, when you build stuff, it needs to be versatile, right?

02:04:58.000 Like you can't have, you know, I don't know, the equivalent would be like having a guy that was a construction worker and he's got an eight-penny nail and he's got a 16-penny nail.

02:05:07.000 Does he have an eight-penny hammer and a 16-penny hammer?

02:05:10.000 It's like, no, you need to be able to do everything with You know, a certain amount of stuff because you're going out in the woods and, you know, you might be walking slow.

02:05:19.000 You might be stopping.

02:05:20.000 You might be going uphill.

02:05:21.000 You might be going downhill, you know, and it just allows...

02:05:24.000 Carrying fewer things that do more jobs.

02:05:26.000 And then you might have to go through thick brush and you might have to have clothes that are durable. 0.96

02:05:31.000 Or if you're in Texas, you might have stuff that has thorns and shit and it's going to be ripping your clothes. 0.98

02:05:36.000 Yes, don't go to Texas. 0.99

02:05:38.000 Don't go to Texas.

02:05:38.000 Everything stabs you and there's ticks and it's hot.

02:05:41.000 Texas is a great example of what could possibly happen if we lost public lands.

02:05:48.000 Because Texas is weird.

02:05:50.000 I love Texas.

02:05:51.000 Don't get me wrong.

02:05:52.000 I love the state.

02:05:53.000 I love the people.

02:05:54.000 It's one of my favorite places on Earth.

02:05:56.000 But Texas hunting is very strange.

02:05:59.000 There's a lot of it that's high fence and a lot of it is like over feeders. 0.96

02:06:03.000 They have like these feed machines and these animals come to the feed machines and they're overrun with wild pigs and then they have these fucking weird African animals that you can hunt anytime you want. 1.00

02:06:13.000 I mean, there's a bit from my last special, but it's true. 0.87

02:06:16.000 There's more tigers in captivity in Texas than there are in all of the wild of the world.

02:06:22.000 Really?

02:06:23.000 Yeah, really.

02:06:23.000 Oh, tell me that's not true.

02:06:25.000 It's totally true. 1.00

02:06:26.000 There's more tigers in dude's fucking backyard. 0.99

02:06:29.000 It's private collections, not zoos, not wildlife sanctuaries. 1.00

02:06:33.000 More tigers in private collections in Texas.

02:06:36.000 Is that legal?

02:06:36.000 100% legal.

02:06:37.000 There's no laws in Texas.

02:06:39.000 You just can't have weed. 0.96

02:06:40.000 No weed, queer. 1.00

02:06:41.000 That's it. 0.98

02:06:42.000 No gay marriage, no weed. 1.00

02:06:43.000 I want to hunt in Texas. 0.94

02:06:45.000 Keep it clean.

02:06:46.000 I've never hunted there, but I would like to.

02:06:48.000 I've hunted there.

02:06:48.000 It's awesome.

02:06:49.000 I love Texas. 0.98

02:06:49.000 But you, like, they have, like, scimitar oryx and fucking elands and all these weird African animals that are running around. 0.98

02:06:57.000 Look at that. 0.98

02:06:57.000 There are more captive tigers in Texas than in the wild. 0.98

02:07:01.000 That's real. 1.00

02:07:02.000 That's real as fuck. 0.99

02:07:03.000 But yeah, man, you don't need the type of innovation. 0.99

02:07:06.000 20,000 privately owned big cats, including tigers, lions, and cougars, currently living in captivity in the U.S. The exact number is unknown due to insufficient record keeping.

02:07:18.000 None of your fucking business, queer. 1.00

02:07:20.000 Are you sure that doesn't count like those little kind of Half-wild cats, those little whatever. 1.00

02:07:24.000 No, man. 0.99

02:07:25.000 I've been to Texas, and I have a friend in Texas that has a buddy of his that has a fucking tiger thing in his yard. 0.98

02:07:32.000 He's got this giant fenced-out area. 0.99

02:07:34.000 He's got a giant ranch. 1.00

02:07:35.000 And in his ranch, he's got a bunch of fucking tigers. 1.00

02:07:38.000 What does he feed them? 1.00

02:07:39.000 Like a cow. 0.89

02:07:40.000 Like a live cow? 0.63

02:07:41.000 No.

02:07:42.000 Well, they could if you want to.

02:07:43.000 Maybe they won't admit it to me. 0.98

02:07:45.000 But they'd take a cow, like a calf, shoot it in the head, toss it over the fence, and these things tear it apart. 0.98

02:07:50.000 Unreal. 0.95

02:07:50.000 And they watch it. 0.95

02:07:51.000 Yee-haw! 1.00

02:07:53.000 They fucking drink a couple of Budweiser's and fuck their cousin. 1.00

02:07:56.000 Yee-haw! 1.00

02:07:57.000 Look at that.

02:07:58.000 The chief of Dallas and his wife are the proud owners of three 600-pound tigers they have raised since they were born.

02:08:05.000 Jesus Christ.

02:08:06.000 Police chief in Dallas.

02:08:08.000 Former police chief.

02:08:09.000 Jesus Christ.

02:08:11.000 Like many Texans, Bill Rathburn is no longer satisfied with an ordinary pet. 0.96

02:08:16.000 Well, I had a German Shepherd, but that queer. 1.00

02:08:19.000 All you want to do is hunt my leg. 0.97

02:08:22.000 Tired of this. 1.00

02:08:23.000 Need a goddamn American animal. 1.00

02:08:25.000 These cats tend to mind me even though I use no discipline, he says. 1.00

02:08:30.000 No discipline at all. 1.00

02:08:31.000 Shut your fucking mouth before you get killed. 1.00

02:08:33.000 He has 22 tigers, this guy said. 1.00

02:08:35.000 He has even trained these tigers to remain tame.

02:08:38.000 Oh, my God.

02:08:39.000 Unfortunately, you can buy a tiger for less than $1,000.

02:08:42.000 Is that like rescue tigers or anything?

02:08:45.000 No.

02:08:46.000 See, Texas has completely different laws when it comes to wildlife.

02:08:51.000 Wildlife in Texas is not—it's private property.

02:08:56.000 It's a whole different situation.

02:08:58.000 I mean, they have tags when it comes to, like, white-tailed deer and indigenous species, but when it comes, and who knows if even the white-tails are indigenous there.

02:09:05.000 I mean, they're bringing them in from farms, so they have bigger racks. 0.99

02:09:09.000 You know, they have a lot of weird shit they do. 0.73

02:09:10.000 So I wonder, it must be if you have a high fence, then it's, once that thing's, like, fully fenced, everything within becomes private. 0.99

02:09:19.000 Yeah.

02:09:20.000 Must be.

02:09:21.000 I think that's exactly what it is.

02:09:22.000 But there's a lot of, like, elands and oryx and all these African animals and Axis deer that have gone rogue. 0.99

02:09:29.000 They've gotten through fences and now they're just wild and free-range.

02:09:33.000 Owl-dad.

02:09:33.000 What do they call them in New Zealand?

02:09:35.000 Convicts?

02:09:37.000 Escapees?

02:09:38.000 Escapees.

02:09:39.000 Yeah.

02:09:39.000 That would be crazy if a cat got loose.

02:09:42.000 They could go nuts out there, right?

02:09:44.000 Oh, yeah, man.

02:09:45.000 I'm sure it's happened.

02:09:46.000 I'm sure if you could drive down a road somewhere in some Jasper, Texas or something.

02:09:50.000 You see that tiger? 1.00

02:09:52.000 I just saw a fucking tiger. 1.00

02:09:53.000 Scariest thing in the world, right? 1.00

02:09:55.000 Tigers in Texas.

02:09:55.000 We don't even know how many there are.

02:10:00.000 I'm blown away right now.

02:10:01.000 I've never heard of this.

02:10:03.000 I have a whole bit about it, man.

02:10:04.000 You should watch it.

02:10:05.000 It's the strangest thing you saw come out of the woods this season.

02:10:08.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:10:09.000 Texas is a very odd place, but what I wanted to highlight is, man, you don't want that to be the only way you can get a hunting experience, because Texas is fucking weird. 0.96

02:10:18.000 We wouldn't have jobs, man. 0.89

02:10:20.000 The reason for innovation is that competition, that being outside, pushing yourself.

02:10:27.000 You know, climbing new peaks. 0.99

02:10:29.000 Why is the hunting clothing industry like a bunch of fucking high school girls? 1.00

02:10:34.000 Because there's a lot of weirdness, like clicks. 0.99

02:10:37.000 Like, if you wear Sitka, you're not supposed to wear Kuyu.

02:10:40.000 If you wear Kuyu, you're not supposed to wear First Light. 0.94

02:10:42.000 Man, I thought you were an Under Armour guy sitting over there with that First Light shirt on. 1.00

02:10:47.000 Like, what are you, a bunch of fucking girls? 1.00

02:10:49.000 Little high school girls? 1.00

02:10:50.000 Not that there's anything wrong with being a girl or being in high school.

02:10:53.000 I used to be in high school and never been a girl, but I have no problem with it. 0.59

02:10:56.000 I'm glad you picked that to clear up.

02:10:58.000 But you know what I'm saying?

02:10:58.000 It's like a clicky little weird thing where they're on teams.

02:11:03.000 Like, hey, there's no goddamn teams. 0.74

02:11:05.000 I had a conversation with one of the Sitka, Harrison, Jason Harrison, who found Nakuyu, started out with Sitka, and then they pushed him out and they bought it out, and now the Sitka guys and the Nakuyu guys don't get along. 0.96

02:11:18.000 I'm like, what? 1.00

02:11:19.000 You guys are out of your fucking minds. 1.00

02:11:21.000 There's shit to worry about. 1.00

02:11:22.000 They may come from the pro staff thing. 1.00

02:11:25.000 Maybe that's where that grew from.

02:11:26.000 It's team mentality, man.

02:11:28.000 It's the same thing as people from Texas that don't like people from Wyoming. 1.00

02:11:31.000 It's like, we played y'all in the fucking Super Bowl and kicked your ass. 1.00

02:11:35.000 It's the same shit. 1.00

02:11:36.000 I think it'd be really hard to believe. 1.00

02:11:38.000 We're very friendly with anybody.

02:11:40.000 Yeah, you guys are. 0.99

02:11:42.000 I think it'd be real hard for me to believe that anybody's out there being like, listen, if you put this on, you fucking hate those people. 0.98

02:11:49.000 Oh, definitely there's people like that out there. 0.98

02:11:51.000 I think people kind of just pick it up and run with it.

02:11:54.000 I'm sure some people are ultra-competitive and it comes from that.

02:11:57.000 That's just the way it is in business, right?

02:11:59.000 Instead of concentrating on what you're doing, a lot of people concentrate on the other people that are doing what you're doing. 1.00

02:12:03.000 These fuckers are trying to get us and we need a fucking... 1.00

02:12:06.000 But the competition is good. 1.00

02:12:08.000 That's the good part.

02:12:09.000 Yeah, the competition is amazing because you guys are constantly elevating your game.

02:12:13.000 I was raising the bar. 0.99

02:12:15.000 I was saying, Ryan, I wore your stuff when I went to Nevada, and I was like, man, those fucking... 0.99

02:12:21.000 Oh, you like the corrugate pants. 0.99

02:12:23.000 Yeah, the corrugate guide pants.

02:12:25.000 They're great, man.

02:12:26.000 They're so loose.

02:12:29.000 When you're walking in them, there's no binding at all.

02:12:31.000 They're tough and durable.

02:12:33.000 And I'm like, you guys nailed it.

02:12:34.000 You nailed it on a lot of stuff.

02:12:36.000 Thank you.

02:12:36.000 It's a cool system in that, you know, generally speaking, you go to a few different shows, like the Outdoor Retailer and whatever, and you get to see all the best stuff, right?

02:12:44.000 Like, whether it be from, you know, Patagonia.

02:12:46.000 Fabrics, zippers.

02:12:48.000 Yeah, everything.

02:12:50.000 And, you know, you get to build the best thing you can build.

02:12:53.000 And there's, like, you know, a couple few companies...

02:12:56.000 That literally, like us, that cost is kind of no object.

02:13:00.000 I mean, it's way down the list.

02:13:01.000 And I wish we're making things as cheap as we can, and that's still expensive.

02:13:05.000 But it's a fun thing to be able to make the best you can make, right?

02:13:09.000 And some people might, you know, say, oh, our stuff's better because we, I don't know, whatever.

02:13:14.000 You know, it is what it is.

02:13:16.000 Everything is so good now.

02:13:18.000 Yeah, it's all quite good.

02:13:19.000 Selfishly, we can make it for ourselves.

02:13:21.000 Well, you know, it's so much better than when I started hunting in 2012, which is incredible.

02:13:27.000 In the four and a half years that I've been hunting, stuff has gotten a lot better.

02:13:30.000 Absolutely.

02:13:30.000 It's really interesting.

02:13:32.000 That's awesome.

02:13:33.000 Yeah, so there's an accelerated curve out there of competition and innovation.

02:13:37.000 Certainly.

02:13:38.000 And for people that don't even hunt, like, you can get your stuff in solid colors, and it is amazing outdoor wear.

02:13:45.000 It's as good as you're going to get.

02:13:46.000 Like, I have this jacket.

02:13:48.000 That I was wearing the other day when it was cold out, and my wife was like, what, a skiing jacket? 0.99

02:13:52.000 I'm like, that's a first light jacket, bitch. 1.00

02:13:54.000 Because it was just black, you know? 1.00

02:13:56.000 I'm like, this is the warmest fucking jacket. 0.98

02:13:58.000 It's so light and so thin, but, you know, it's, what is it, your puffy? 0.98

02:14:01.000 Is that what you guys call it?

02:14:02.000 The uncompagre.

02:14:03.000 Yeah.

02:14:04.000 I'm like, this is a great jacket.

02:14:05.000 I mean, it's the perfect jacket for when it's kind of cold out.

02:14:09.000 And I wore that in Montana when I was doing Anthony Bourdain's show, too. 0.97

02:14:13.000 I'm like, it was fucking freezing out. 0.69

02:14:15.000 And I'm like, this jacket's amazing. 0.95

02:14:17.000 It just doesn't mean nothing.

02:14:18.000 You gotta hang out with Buddy Goodtime and Dan Bailey, the Pheasants Forever Dude.

02:14:20.000 Who's Goodtime and Dan Bailey?

02:14:22.000 I don't like the way you say that.

02:14:23.000 He's a big, lanky dude.

02:14:24.000 Getting nervous.

02:14:25.000 With the two, he had the two Griffons, the two pointing dogs.

02:14:29.000 Yeah, oh, okay.

02:14:31.000 Oh, yeah.

02:14:31.000 Real good dude.

02:14:32.000 Oh, that's awesome, man.

02:14:33.000 Yeah, bird hunting is fun, but it's like way down on the list for me.

02:14:38.000 Well, dude, you're scared.

02:14:40.000 So, we were talking about elk hunting in Idaho?

02:14:43.000 Yeah.

02:14:45.000 Are we doing that?

02:14:46.000 When are we doing that?

02:14:46.000 You gotta clear some time out.

02:14:47.000 Well, it's hard.

02:14:48.000 You gotta give me some days.

02:14:48.000 It's hard.

02:14:49.000 I got kids.

02:14:49.000 I got a wife.

02:14:50.000 Everybody's bitching at me.

02:14:51.000 I've heard of those things.

02:14:53.000 Yeah, trust me.

02:14:53.000 I've heard of those things.

02:14:54.000 Kenton fights those battles all the time.

02:14:55.000 Yeah, you've managed to stay clean.

02:14:57.000 Kenton's got restrictions, right?

02:14:58.000 Maybe.

02:14:58.000 Donald Trump has made your house a swear-free zone.

02:15:00.000 Is that what you're saying?

02:15:01.000 What happened?

02:15:02.000 My wife and I might not have the same political views, so we've gotten pretty... 1.00

02:15:08.000 Was it the grab-em-by-the-pussy talk that pushed her over the top? 1.00

02:15:12.000 It did me no favors, literally, as far as having a house that was pretty free and loose. 0.99

02:15:17.000 Do you have boys or girls?

02:15:18.000 Two boys and a girl.

02:15:20.000 Oh, okay, you're lucky.

02:15:21.000 There's like a balance there.

02:15:22.000 You've got two girls and two boys in your house and then you.

02:15:25.000 For me, dude, it's all chicks. 1.00

02:15:27.000 My fucking whole house overrun by chicks. 1.00

02:15:30.000 And my wife's mom lives nearby. 1.00

02:15:33.000 She's over the fucking house, too. 1.00

02:15:34.000 It's all women. 1.00

02:15:35.000 All women. 0.74

02:15:37.000 You get a lot of time shooting your bow.

02:15:38.000 All women, yeah. 1.00

02:15:39.000 Daddy's gonna go outside, pretend he's still a man. 1.00

02:15:42.000 And fucking hide. 0.99

02:15:45.000 Hide from all you sirens trying to bring me to the rocks. 1.00

02:15:49.000 It's funny though, you know.

02:15:51.000 So what laws did get established in your household?

02:15:54.000 Oh, I don't know, you know.

02:15:56.000 We just have to be concerned with what we say isn't negative.

02:16:03.000 How did Donald Trump bring this about?

02:16:05.000 I don't know.

02:16:06.000 Like you said, I think there was enough, like, you know, I have two boys, right? 0.99

02:16:10.000 So they're not afraid to call each other a pussy if something's going, you know what I mean? 0.99

02:16:14.000 Right. 1.00

02:16:14.000 They heard it on the news. 1.00

02:16:16.000 Yeah, no, but they're, you know, they're into their extreme sport, you know, they're skiers and mountain bikers, and, you know, inevitably, it's like, you know, there's a jump built or something, and first thing that gets called is, you know...

02:16:28.000 The P word. 0.88

02:16:30.000 That was the first thing.

02:16:31.000 My wife was like, no, no, no, no. 1.00

02:16:34.000 You're a dick. 1.00

02:16:36.000 You're a dick. 1.00

02:16:36.000 Do you like that? 1.00

02:16:37.000 I was like, whoa, she's serious.

02:16:38.000 That was not going to be a derogatory term.

02:16:41.000 And that's fine.

02:16:42.000 Whatever.

02:16:42.000 It shouldn't be.

02:16:43.000 But it was funny because they'll heckle each other.

02:16:46.000 You know, they're boys. 1.00

02:16:47.000 They, you know, want to get after, you know, some nasty, gnarly-ass, you know, jump or whatever on their bikes, and somebody's got to guinea pig it, and sure enough, it's probably the one that got called a pussy first, right? 1.00

02:16:58.000 Right. 0.99

02:16:58.000 So we don't do that anymore. 0.99

02:16:59.000 Well, for me, when Donald Trump, that whole story came out, it was great, because then all of a sudden everybody, so many people are saying pussy. 0.99

02:17:06.000 And it seems like this country is, like, backing... 0.99

02:17:10.000 We had gotten to some weird politically correct phase just in the last couple years where people are so mad...

02:17:16.000 That so many different groups are so mad at the way our culture is that there was all these words that you weren't allowed to say anymore.

02:17:24.000 And there was all these new things like, you're not allowed to wear sombreros because it's cultural appropriation.

02:17:29.000 They were getting mad at people for cooking other cultures dishes. 0.98

02:17:32.000 Like, people got so politically correct that, like, the good thing about Donald Trump being in office is that I said that political correctness just took a missile to the dick. 1.00

02:17:41.000 Because, like, that guy as the fucking commander-in-chief, man, that political correctness shit, it's like, it doesn't seem very effective. 1.00

02:17:49.000 It didn't work here. 1.00

02:17:50.000 Like, you can't, you can't, and people are fighting it, of course, and rallying and protesting and all that jazz.

02:17:55.000 But the good thing about it, it's like, you realize, like, oh, that's just a word. 0.99

02:18:00.000 Pussy is just a word. 1.00

02:18:01.000 And that guy was saying pussy. 1.00

02:18:02.000 Now he's the president. 1.00

02:18:03.000 It's not really this taboo word that summons demons.

02:18:07.000 It's just a word.

02:18:08.000 And it's intent that's important.

02:18:11.000 It's not demonizing words and making these words impossible to say because we've made them...

02:18:16.000 There's certain words now that you just can't say in our culture.

02:18:20.000 Or people get upset at you. 0.96

02:18:21.000 That were real common, like retard. 1.00

02:18:23.000 You call someone a retard.

02:18:24.000 You're not saying someone has a disease. 1.00

02:18:26.000 You're saying someone's a fucking knucklehead. 1.00

02:18:28.000 Oh, that guy's retarded. 1.00

02:18:29.000 You know the intent of that word. 0.98

02:18:32.000 But people are saying, no, don't say that anymore.

02:18:34.000 That's offensive.

02:18:35.000 Well, the more you create offensive words, and the more you create words that you're not allowed to say them, the more you're going to give those words power.

02:18:44.000 And people can't wait to say them.

02:18:47.000 Then those words become like nuclear power.

02:18:49.000 That's what I was going to say, the nuclear option.

02:18:51.000 Then you've got something, right?

02:18:52.000 Oh, you've got the C word, you know?

02:18:54.000 You're always holding on to that one if a chick gets crazy. 1.00

02:18:57.000 You're like, listen, cunt. 1.00

02:18:59.000 Like, what?! 1.00

02:19:02.000 It's impossible to come back from.

02:19:04.000 There's not an equivalent word for men.

02:19:06.000 By telling us, we can't say that word. 0.99

02:19:09.000 You can call us dicks all day long. 1.00

02:19:10.000 You fucking dick. 1.00

02:19:11.000 Guilty as charged. 1.00

02:19:12.000 You can say it on TV now, practically.

02:19:14.000 Yeah, you can.

02:19:15.000 As long as it's not like, I think NBC, CBS, they still don't use it.

02:19:21.000 But any cable show, they use that now.

02:19:23.000 All I know is Kenton's wife tends to look at me like, that is the source of looseness right there. 1.00

02:19:30.000 That's a single man with a mustache.

02:19:33.000 If this man got cut loose to spend too much time with him, it could all go down here.

02:19:38.000 Just go feral.

02:19:39.000 Yeah.

02:19:40.000 Why?

02:19:41.000 No one tells Ryan where to go?

02:19:43.000 Ryan can just go into the woods anytime he wants?

02:19:45.000 I don't think that's right.

02:19:46.000 Yeah.

02:19:46.000 What about, he doesn't have a leash on.

02:19:48.000 How many times does he call and check in?

02:19:50.000 Ryan's just out there with no leash.

02:19:51.000 Does he have a collar?

02:19:52.000 I get a long leash.

02:19:53.000 I get a long leash.

02:19:54.000 Especially during hunting season.

02:19:55.000 But mark my words.

02:19:56.000 But it's still a leash.

02:19:57.000 You have a leash.

02:19:58.000 Ryan doesn't have a leash.

02:19:59.000 He's just out there.

02:20:00.000 He doesn't have to call anybody.

02:20:01.000 He just goes where he wants.

02:20:02.000 Anarchy is what it is, Joe.

02:20:03.000 What if he just decides to take that mustache and go for a hike?

02:20:06.000 Nobody can tell him?

02:20:09.000 That pisses women off, because then the man goes, yeah, hey, Ed Ryan's just out there with no leash.

02:20:14.000 He's doing whatever he wants.

02:20:15.000 Oh, I wish I was like that.

02:20:18.000 Like, I love being married.

02:20:19.000 I love having kids.

02:20:19.000 I love the whole deal.

02:20:20.000 I love having a family.

02:20:22.000 But!

02:20:23.000 I got a buddy, my friend Ari.

02:20:25.000 You know what Ari did? 1.00

02:20:25.000 He just went off the grid, shut his fucking phone off, he won't answer his emails, and he just disappeared. 1.00

02:20:31.000 Free and easy. 0.99

02:20:32.000 For how long?

02:20:33.000 Just want to do it for a few months. 0.98

02:20:35.000 He's a stand-up comic, hilarious guy, successful show on Comedy Central, doing great, kicking ass. 0.80

02:20:40.000 He just decided, you know what? 0.96

02:20:42.000 I need some experiences in my life to write about, to talk about, so I'm just gonna fucking stop talking to people and disappear for a few months. 0.89

02:20:47.000 Oh, I love it. 0.82

02:20:48.000 I haven't talked to him in two months!

02:20:50.000 I haven't talked to him. 0.99

02:20:50.000 I don't know where the fuck he is. 0.99

02:20:51.000 You call his voicemail, it just says the subscriber you have reached has shut off incoming calls. 0.99

02:20:56.000 I'll play it for you guys.

02:20:57.000 That's amazing.

02:20:58.000 Dude, this thing is just the most devious creation on the planet.

02:21:04.000 Agreed.

02:21:05.000 It's a tether.

02:21:05.000 It is.

02:21:06.000 It is.

02:21:15.000 Bari Shafir is rocking message NV1. He doesn't give a fuck. 0.99

02:21:20.000 He went straight NV1. Yeah, so if my wife heard that, well, he's out there with no leash. 1.00

02:21:25.000 You think that's good?

02:21:26.000 He's got no one to call into.

02:21:28.000 He can't even check in.

02:21:29.000 But he can check in.

02:21:31.000 He can do whatever he wants.

02:21:32.000 But he can call me and say, hey, everything cool?

02:21:33.000 Yeah, alright, late.

02:21:34.000 Boom. 1.00

02:21:34.000 He can call me, I'll pay faggot, I'm still alive, and then hang up the phone. 1.00

02:21:36.000 That's it. 1.00

02:21:37.000 I'm like, goddammit, he's out there free.

02:21:39.000 The ability to check out.

02:21:41.000 We can, I mean, where we are, it is narrow valley.

02:21:47.000 Public land everywhere.

02:21:49.000 As soon as you get off the valley floor, you're on public land. 0.64

02:21:51.000 Like we talked about, I can hike to the freaking Yukon, man.

02:21:55.000 Yeah, that's crazy. 0.93

02:21:56.000 And you can be disconnected.

02:21:58.000 As disconnected as you want to be.

02:22:01.000 And, man, there is no price tag on that.

02:22:04.000 That is the most invaluable thing.

02:22:06.000 And I need it.

02:22:07.000 Well, that's the constant dilemma amongst a lot of hunters, especially the really hardcore guys.

02:22:12.000 A lot of the podcasts that I listen to, there's a bunch of them.

02:22:14.000 But the big dilemma is, how much time does your family allow you to get out?

02:22:20.000 How much time can you spend?

02:22:22.000 Can you do one of those 30-day trips?

02:22:25.000 There's a lot of guys that do a 30-day trip.

02:22:28.000 That's pretty heavy. 0.99

02:22:29.000 That's heavy as fuck. 0.99

02:22:30.000 But there's some street cred to that, or should I say trail cred. 0.99

02:22:33.000 Right.

02:22:34.000 Right?

02:22:35.000 You might have coined a new term. 0.98

02:22:36.000 She's like, you know what fucking Ranella said to me once? 1.00

02:22:38.000 It was really funny, man. 0.99

02:22:39.000 We were laughing.

02:22:39.000 We were talking about Grizzly Man.

02:22:40.000 We were talking about the Werner Herzog documentary, and Ranella was laughing.

02:22:44.000 He goes, I'll tell you what, though. 0.98

02:22:45.000 He goes, that guy did some fucking hard camping. 0.98

02:22:47.000 He goes, I gotta respect that guy. 0.99

02:22:49.000 That guy was a hard camper.

02:22:51.000 And that's coming from a dude who does things the hard way.

02:22:54.000 He does!

02:22:55.000 He loves it!

02:22:56.000 He loves it!

02:22:56.000 No one loves it the hard way more than Rinella.

02:22:58.000 He loves it.

02:22:59.000 He loves toil.

02:23:00.000 Yeah.

02:23:00.000 He does.

02:23:00.000 Yeah.

02:23:01.000 But there's something to be said for it.

02:23:02.000 Yes.

02:23:02.000 Because I think, just like we were talking about, you know, things get more PC or whatever, it's you start padding yourself.

02:23:09.000 Yeah.

02:23:09.000 And all of a sudden you don't know what rough is.

02:23:12.000 Save spaces.

02:23:13.000 Nerf the hard edges of the world.

02:23:14.000 It's super important that we be totally inclusive.

02:23:17.000 Yeah.

02:23:17.000 Competition is not a bad thing, and there's no more primal competition than you trying to go out and get your own food that's running around trying to stay alive.

02:23:26.000 And what do you have?

02:23:27.000 You've got a pointy stick you're trying to shoot through.

02:23:29.000 Another misconception, every time a hunter goes into the woods, something dies.

02:23:34.000 That's what I hear all the time.

02:23:36.000 It's like, well, I saw five people go into the woods behind my house on a public easement.

02:23:40.000 I was at a city council meeting listening to this gal talk. 1.00

02:23:46.000 Somebody...

02:23:47.000 Public easement.

02:23:48.000 So people can access public land.

02:23:51.000 Only way their housing development got built was because they allowed easements so people could get to the public land.

02:23:58.000 She's saying that five people went past her house and five elk died.

02:24:02.000 It's like not the case.

02:24:03.000 I'll tell you right now.

02:24:04.000 It's never happened.

02:24:05.000 I don't punch my tag until the absolute last day because as soon as I clip it, I gotta be back into work with that guy.

02:24:13.000 I mean, I've had conversations with people that don't understand.

02:24:16.000 They're like, you know, you go out there and you shoot these animals.

02:24:18.000 I go, no, you go out there and you try to get an animal.

02:24:21.000 She's like, well, how often are you successful?

02:24:22.000 I said, well, I went on five hunts last year and I'm super dedicated.

02:24:25.000 I practice constantly.

02:24:26.000 I'm absorbed in it.

02:24:28.000 Five hunts, three of them were unsuccessful.

02:24:30.000 And that's a good average.

02:24:32.000 That's a good average.

02:24:33.000 So you're spending 15, you know, like each hunt at least five days out in the woods and just nothing.

02:24:40.000 Sorry.

02:24:41.000 Come back home.

02:24:42.000 Nothing struck out.

02:24:43.000 And you go, oh, that was an absolute failure. 1.00

02:24:45.000 My kids look at me like such a loser. 0.99

02:24:47.000 Nothing? 0.99

02:24:48.000 Like nothing struck out.

02:24:50.000 Like you didn't, nothing?

02:24:51.000 Nothing! 1.00

02:24:52.000 Nothing, you little fucks. 1.00

02:24:53.000 Can't figure that out? 1.00

02:24:54.000 It's hard.

02:24:55.000 Come with me one day.

02:24:56.000 Right now, you're too little to hike.

02:24:57.000 You're lucky.

02:24:58.000 What are the ages?

02:24:59.000 Six and eight.

02:25:00.000 Oh, getting close.

02:25:01.000 They eat everything, though, man.

02:25:03.000 They've eaten bear, elk.

02:25:04.000 They eat elk all the time.

02:25:06.000 They've been eating wild game since they were little.

02:25:09.000 They don't know the difference.

02:25:10.000 They like it.

02:25:11.000 They love elk.

02:25:11.000 And are they both skiing?

02:25:12.000 Yeah, both skiing.

02:25:13.000 They've been skiing since they were two.

02:25:14.000 Nice.

02:25:15.000 Yeah, I took them when they were just so little that they just pizza'd down the, like when they had the little connector with the two skis and they just slide.

02:25:22.000 Right.

02:25:23.000 My daughter Rosie, I don't even think she was two.

02:25:25.000 You have a Rosie?

02:25:26.000 Yeah.

02:25:27.000 No way.

02:25:27.000 Oh, no way.

02:25:28.000 Oh, no way.

02:25:28.000 Oh, because Steve's daughter, right?

02:25:30.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:25:30.000 Didn't know that.

02:25:31.000 Yeah, kids are, you know, it's an amazing thing to have a little person that you're raising and you get to see them learning things for the first time, which will never happen again.

02:25:41.000 You know, everything they learned for the first time, like the first time they went skiing, I remember this look on their face, like, they got the mittens on, like, this is crazy!

02:25:50.000 I got a helmet on, whoa!

02:25:51.000 They're so happy and excited, like, there's never gonna be a first like that again.

02:25:55.000 And the more firsts you can have in this life, I think the better and more rich your life will be.

02:26:00.000 The more first experiences, the more times you can learn things.

02:26:03.000 And people Get locked into these patterns in their life and I don't know why it happens and I don't know what causes it but We get a job and we get a career and we get a path in a neighborhood and that's boom and then the first stop There's no more firsts and then it becomes the same shit over and over again life becomes mundane and life becomes tired and It's how you grow old,

02:26:25.000 right?

02:26:26.000 In a lot of ways, other than aging.

02:26:28.000 But the other thing that happens is you realize that this is what's going on, and then you seek novelty.

02:26:35.000 You seek new experiences. 0.73

02:26:36.000 And hopefully, that's what happens to more people more when they listen to podcasts like this, and they hear you guys talk about your experiences, and they say, God damn it, I need some of that in my life. 0.99

02:26:47.000 You know, I need to just go fucking camp. 0.98

02:26:50.000 I need to just go out there. 0.99

02:26:52.000 I need to wake up and hear...

02:26:54.000 Bulls bugling.

02:26:56.000 You know, I need to, like, wake up and hear birds that I don't recognize chirping and squawking and look over the ridge and see a bear. 0.99

02:27:04.000 I'm like, whoa, what the fuck is it? 0.99

02:27:06.000 That's a wild bear. 1.00

02:27:07.000 He's just hanging out, chilling, doing bear stuff.

02:27:09.000 Like, all that stuff is, like, having new experiences like that, it's just giant for your life.

02:27:15.000 And again, if you're not into hunting, you don't even want to go, just try archery.

02:27:18.000 Just try that.

02:27:19.000 Just try that.

02:27:19.000 Just a new experience.

02:27:20.000 Call somewhere.

02:27:21.000 Find a place that gives lessons.

02:27:22.000 Oh, just go...

02:27:23.000 Yeah, drive out to the National Park.

02:27:25.000 Drive out to Bears Ear National Monument.

02:27:28.000 Go check some things out.

02:27:30.000 Yeah, road trip.

02:27:31.000 Car camping is fantastic.

02:27:34.000 It's hard to get people out of their comfort zone.

02:27:35.000 It's hard.

02:27:36.000 It is, but baby steps, man.

02:27:38.000 Go do it.

02:27:39.000 Get out there.

02:27:39.000 First hunts.

02:27:40.000 One of the most fulfilling things I do.

02:27:42.000 I try to take somebody out on their first hunt every year, and it is one of the most fulfilling things I do ever.

02:27:48.000 Every year.

02:27:49.000 I'm sure.

02:27:50.000 It's just the best.

02:27:51.000 It always blows somebody's mind.

02:27:53.000 I mean, all you have to do is hear a bugle, and people are just like, whoa.

02:27:57.000 Yeah.

02:27:57.000 I mean, it doesn't sound like a real animal.

02:27:59.000 No. 0.99

02:27:59.000 Jamie, cue up some elk bugle, because for people who've never heard it before, they don't know what the fuck we're talking about, you live in a city somewhere, you poor bastard, it sounds like an animal from the Lord of the Rings. 0.99

02:28:09.000 It doesn't sound like a real thing. 0.99

02:28:10.000 Yes.

02:28:10.000 It sounds like some crazy, exotic beast.

02:28:13.000 Meow.

02:28:18.000 Is it a good one?

02:28:20.000 Heard a little bit of it.

02:28:22.000 Did you just pick the first one you found?

02:28:23.000 Here it goes.

02:28:26.000 Now, that's not even like a crazy one. 0.99

02:28:29.000 That sounds like a little bitch bull. 1.00

02:28:31.000 But this is a 1,000 pound forest horse. 0.99

02:28:35.000 That's making...

02:28:36.000 That's a real bull right there, baby.

02:28:41.000 Oh my god. 1.00

02:28:42.000 That guy's like, I get all the pussy. 1.00

02:28:46.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:28:49.000 And the other one's saying, I'm...

02:28:51.000 No, I do.

02:28:53.000 Look at him screaming.

02:28:54.000 And then they throw their head back and just launch that in the air.

02:28:59.000 So these guys are going back and forth in this video.

02:29:05.000 What a crazy animal.

02:29:06.000 It is not something you get sick of hearing. 0.57

02:29:09.000 Never.

02:29:10.000 Man, every time I've been elk hunting, and I've been elk hunting a few times now, you see one, and you hear it, and just your whole body, like, tingles.

02:29:17.000 It's like, whoa, what a magical experience just to be around those things.

02:29:23.000 To feel that noise in your chest. 1.00

02:29:26.000 Jesus, look at the size of that fucker. 1.00

02:29:27.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:29:28.000 God.

02:29:31.000 I mean, the things that are keeping those things alive are the money that comes from hunting.

02:29:37.000 That's super important for people to recognize.

02:29:39.000 There was a time in this country where those things were almost extinct.

02:29:42.000 In the early 1900s, there was very few.

02:29:44.000 There's very few deer.

02:29:45.000 There's very few anything.

02:29:46.000 And now, there's more deer in this country than there were when Columbus didn't really discover this place.

02:29:50.000 And that's why people are so passionate about this, man.

02:29:53.000 Look at the history.

02:29:53.000 Like, we landed, we said, hey, this place is going to be different than where we came from.

02:29:58.000 The land, or the animals belong to the people. 0.97

02:30:02.000 We fucked that up real quick with market hunting.

02:30:05.000 Yeah, market hunting is an interesting thing.

02:30:06.000 Tell people about that.

02:30:08.000 Most people didn't even know that that was a real thing.

02:30:10.000 They know that we killed off all the buffalo, but they don't really understand that back in the day before refrigerators, you know, you got to get meat, like, pretty much then.

02:30:18.000 Yes.

02:30:19.000 Matt, read Michener's Chesapeake.

02:30:22.000 There's a great description on market hunting in the Chesapeake Bay.

02:30:26.000 Guys going out with low-profile boats with cannons on them, stuffing them full of shards of nails and stuff.

02:30:34.000 We're good to go.

02:30:54.000 Sneak up really slowly on these big rafts of sleeping birds and touch this cannon off, shoot this cannon.

02:31:01.000 And that's how the Chesapeake Bay Retriever was basically bred into existence, was they needed a big hardy dog that could withstand cold water.

02:31:13.000 This dog would spend hours never getting back in the boat, but just constantly retrieving for hours.

02:31:19.000 Because they'd shoot, you know.

02:31:21.000 And probably a mouthful of nails, too, right?

02:31:23.000 Hundreds of birds, right?

02:31:25.000 Hundreds of birds.

02:31:25.000 And then that dog had to then sit on the pile of birds and defend it the next day from everybody else, right?

02:31:33.000 Because those birds were worth money.

02:31:34.000 So they were taking them across to...

02:31:36.000 So they had to be guide dogs, or guard dogs, rather, and they also had to be retrievers.

02:31:40.000 Yes.

02:31:41.000 Whoa.

02:31:41.000 Yeah.

02:31:42.000 Whoa.

02:31:43.000 And then they would bring those to market.

02:31:44.000 By the barrel full.

02:31:46.000 And they were only good for a couple days.

02:31:48.000 Yep.

02:31:49.000 And people would try to keep them cool, and then people would try to buy them as quick as they could before they spoiled, and then they'd have to go right back out and do it again.

02:31:56.000 And that process resulted in just a devastation on the wildlife in this country.

02:32:02.000 Yes.

02:32:03.000 And the same thing was happening with white-tailed deer, elk, black bears.

02:32:08.000 Everything.

02:32:09.000 Bison, obviously.

02:32:10.000 Yeah, obviously.

02:32:10.000 Yeah, that's the one that everybody harps on, but they don't realize that it was pretty much everything that we could eat.

02:32:16.000 They shot.

02:32:18.000 We could put a price tag on it, right?

02:32:20.000 And that's one of the major issues that, you know, we're seeing in Idaho is they want to, and with some of this auction tag stuff, is we're starting to put a dollar amount on our game.

02:32:30.000 What do you mean by auction tags?

02:32:31.000 Where we're pulling tags out of the general pool.

02:32:35.000 So like right now, let's say in the state of Idaho, we could all put in, you know, a thousand people put in for four elk tags in a prime unit, the unit that grows the biggest bulls.

02:32:50.000 Well, in order to raise more funds, they've started to remove one of those tags and auction them off.

02:32:58.000 So that's putting whatever we could all put in for $30 for the remaining three elk, But if we choose to, we can all try to bid on each other for that fourth tag.

02:33:10.000 So if there's a limited amount of tags, people have to realize that your chances of drawing that tag are probably pretty slim unless you build up points.

02:33:19.000 Every year you build up a certain amount of points and that makes it more likely that you're going to draw a tag.

02:33:24.000 So people that don't understand the process.

02:33:26.000 So one person, they'll take one tag and they'll put it off and they'll allow it to be auctioned off.

02:33:30.000 And sometimes they'll go for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

02:33:32.000 Yes.

02:33:33.000 Right? 0.97

02:33:33.000 Like crazy rich dudes. 0.97

02:33:35.000 So there's two schools of thought. 1.00

02:33:36.000 One school of thought is, look how much money is going to conservation because this one rich asshole that wants to spend $400,000 to kill a bighorn sheep. 1.00

02:33:43.000 Yes. 1.00

02:33:43.000 And I think, you know, saying it like you do, the rich asshole thing, that's how everybody says it. 1.00

02:33:48.000 Right. 1.00

02:33:48.000 Of course. 1.00

02:33:49.000 And I get really frustrated with that because I'm like, well, aren't we as the remaining sportsmen in this pool... 0.99

02:33:57.000 Supporting the rich asshole by giving him the ability? 0.97

02:34:00.000 Why don't the thousand people in the pool just agree to spend a couple extra bucks on the tag? 0.99

02:34:06.000 Well, that might help, but is it really going to get you the hundreds of thousands of dollars for that one tag?

02:34:12.000 I mean, it seems like without burdening the regular sportsman who doesn't want to spend, like, didn't Montana, like, significantly raise their tags, the price of their tags recently?

02:34:22.000 There was a lot of complaints.

02:34:23.000 Yeah, but they put a lot of burden on the out-of-state hunter, not the in-state hunter.

02:34:28.000 Right, yeah.

02:34:29.000 The resident hunter gets a break, right?

02:34:31.000 Right.

02:34:32.000 Our in-state, you know, I support a tag fee increase for resident hunters because we haven't had one in a lot of years.

02:34:41.000 So what's a tag, like an over-the-counter tag for elk right now in Montana?

02:34:45.000 Or excuse me, in Idaho.

02:34:47.000 I want to say...

02:34:48.000 40 bucks?

02:34:49.000 35 bucks?

02:34:49.000 That's amazing.

02:34:50.000 Yeah, and I want to say Montana's 17 as a resident.

02:34:53.000 Do you know how amazing that is?

02:34:54.000 That for 17 bucks, you can get 500 pounds of meat.

02:34:59.000 Yeah.

02:34:59.000 And obviously your effort, too.

02:35:01.000 Most hunters, I mean, speaking for the guys that I hang around with and nobody else, we like to drink our beer.

02:35:08.000 What?

02:35:09.000 Yes.

02:35:10.000 And spending $17 on a case of beer that has gone in, I'll generously say, a couple of weeks.

02:35:18.000 Right?

02:35:19.000 I love, I love to hunt elk and deer.

02:35:22.000 Absolutely love it.

02:35:23.000 It is, I mean, it's just something that I look forward to the year long.

02:35:28.000 Right.

02:35:30.000 I can very...

02:35:33.000 More than willing to spend more than $17 on the potential, the thrill of the excuse to go hunt for a month.

02:35:42.000 For sure.

02:35:42.000 Yeah, I think that's reasonable, and pretty much within anybody's budget.

02:35:46.000 I mean, just raise it to $20, and then all that money is going to go back to the state, and it's going to help.

02:35:51.000 And it's still very, very, very reasonable.

02:35:54.000 Yeah, and collectively...

02:35:56.000 I was going to say, the reason we don't know the exact price generally is because you can buy a Sportsman's package, so I think it's for $105.

02:36:03.000 Hunt and fish like basically anything that's not a draw.

02:36:08.000 Everything over the counter as long as you don't go over the limit of what you could get.

02:36:11.000 Pretty much, I mean.

02:36:12.000 It's pretty amazing.

02:36:13.000 Yeah, and Idaho's a true lottery, right?

02:36:15.000 So there are no points.

02:36:17.000 Oh, it's one of those states.

02:36:18.000 That's interesting.

02:36:19.000 Yeah, and I truly like it because it spreads out the pressure.

02:36:23.000 So our draw odds are fantastic.

02:36:26.000 So now where someone wants to auction those things off, what is one of those crazy elk tags?

02:36:32.000 Because I know that wild sheep is the big one, right?

02:36:34.000 Like bighorn sheep are the ones that people spend.

02:36:36.000 Montana went for $305,000.

02:36:37.000 Is that what it was?

02:36:38.000 $305,000?

02:36:39.000 For an elk tag?

02:36:41.000 Sheep.

02:36:42.000 Oh, wow.

02:36:42.000 The breaks area that we hunted, that I think last year went for over half a million.

02:36:48.000 Whoa.

02:36:49.000 But you've got to keep in mind, sheep are the rarest thing that we have.

02:36:55.000 They're doing really well in the areas that they're doing well in.

02:37:00.000 In the breaks, we saw a ton of them.

02:37:01.000 It was crazy.

02:37:02.000 They were everywhere.

02:37:03.000 But disease, you know, they're super susceptible to disease.

02:37:06.000 Domestic sheep diseases, correct?

02:37:08.000 Yes.

02:37:08.000 Because there was a Sitka video that they did.

02:37:11.000 They did this short film about the tendroy herd.

02:37:17.000 How do you say it?

02:37:18.000 T-N-D-R-O-Y. Yeah, tendroi. 1.00

02:37:21.000 Yeah.

02:37:21.000 And these sheep are suffering from diseases that are coming from domestic sheep, so they're trying to figure out a way to breed a domestic sheep that doesn't catch this disease so that they can reintroduce healthy sheep into these areas and not have them be infected by these different diseases that they get from.

02:37:41.000 It's really fascinating stuff.

02:37:43.000 Do you remember Kit Fisher was on that hunt with us in the breaks?

02:37:47.000 He was rowing one of the boats.

02:37:49.000 He works for National Wildlife Federation, and that's what he does, is he does conflict mitigation, basically.

02:37:55.000 So he identifies those grazing allotments.

02:37:59.000 And most of them are on public land.

02:38:02.000 And he identifies the conflict of grazing allotments mostly for bighorn sheep that could put domestic sheep that could potentially be carrying diseases in contact with these wild sheep herds.

02:38:16.000 So he's looking to, you know, typically pay the rancher that has that grazing allotment.

02:38:23.000 Fair market value for that grazing allotment, and he just turns it back over to the U.S. Forest Service.

02:38:31.000 And that's a real issue with buffalo, right, with wild bison, because there's two schools of thought, and there's one school, it's about brucellosis, and that brucellosis will somehow or another be transmitted from the bison to cattle.

02:38:45.000 But apparently a lot of people say that that's kind of a bullshit argument because it's really about the bison eating up all the grazing land and forcing out the domestic cattle so they're using the brucellosis as an excuse to say that this is the reason why we need to kill off the bison and get them out of the way.

02:39:03.000 I think there's some legitimate... 0.80

02:39:04.000 Is it a little bit on both sides?

02:39:05.000 Yeah, and the difference between the sheep and the bison is sheep don't carry a disease.

02:39:10.000 Bison definitely do carry the brucellosis.

02:39:14.000 But domestic sheep do carry some diseases, right?

02:39:16.000 Domestic sheep do. 0.97

02:39:17.000 But the wild ones don't.

02:39:18.000 The wild ones don't.

02:39:19.000 But they can catch domestic sheep diseases.

02:39:21.000 Yes, and they have no...

02:39:23.000 No immune systems, right?

02:39:25.000 They just die off.

02:39:25.000 But yeah, the bison one is, you know, I got a big eastern Montana family.

02:39:31.000 It takes a lot of ground to grow beef out there.

02:39:34.000 And if that's your livelihood, absolutely.

02:39:36.000 You know, putting more animals on the countryside. 0.99

02:39:39.000 Yeah, some fucking hulk bison thing that's way bigger than a cow. 0.99

02:39:44.000 Yeah, it's a scary thing, man. 0.99

02:39:45.000 It's going to directly impact your livelihood.

02:39:47.000 But I think just as we were talking about earlier, man, there's some happy medium there.

02:39:53.000 And especially if we're looking at some of this oil and gas stuff that's getting scary right now.

02:40:01.000 Especially with, like, all of a sudden we're saying that you don't have to clean up after yourself after you, you know, start a big mine somewhere.

02:40:09.000 Right.

02:40:09.000 Like, I would much rather have bison out there than, like, let's raise funds through sportsmen or recreationists than digging a big pit in a beautiful spot.

02:40:21.000 Right.

02:40:21.000 Yeah, I don't know if that's going to cover it though.

02:40:23.000 It's not.

02:40:24.000 The Dakota pipeline, like what they're talking about there, it's just like, I mean, the amount of money that's going to come from that is just staggering.

02:40:30.000 And so the amount of pressure that's involved in making something like that go through is also pretty staggering.

02:40:37.000 It is.

02:40:38.000 But it's dangerous, you know, and what the disaster that could take place is, you can't put a price on it.

02:40:46.000 Because what could be done, if they ruin a river system, if somehow or another this gas line breaks and you have oil flooding a river system the same way they had that BP oil rig disaster out in the Gulf, God, could you imagine?

02:41:01.000 They're still dealing with it, right? 0.99

02:41:03.000 Yeah, fuck yeah. 1.00

02:41:03.000 Fuck yeah. 1.00

02:41:04.000 And how about the people that had to deal with it, that were living near there, that were sick? 1.00

02:41:08.000 You know, there's all sorts of diseases, and there's all sorts of lawsuits going on, and the cleanup crews. 0.97

02:41:13.000 I mean, they made prisoners clean up the fucking BP mess, and there's a lot of weird shit involved in that. 0.99

02:41:19.000 Right. 0.98

02:41:21.000 I'm truly not educated on the economics of it, and my brain says that, no, there's no warm, fuzzy, eco...

02:41:32.000 You know, lodge that we could set up that would match the funds from, you know, oil and gas.

02:41:37.000 But, man, yeah, I'm just trying to think long term.

02:41:40.000 And, ew, boy, it just wrecked that landscape.

02:41:44.000 And the landscape is what I've, you know, been in love with since a little kid.

02:41:48.000 Yeah, you know, and nobody wants to be able to light your toilet water on fire either. 0.86

02:41:54.000 You ever see this fucking Gasland documentary where it's coming right out of the tap and the guy sticks a lighter to it and his fucking water's on fire and people are like, well, they've always been able to do that. 0.91

02:42:03.000 That's always been the case. 1.00

02:42:04.000 Not with these fucking people! 1.00

02:42:06.000 With these fucking people, it's directly related to fracking. 1.00

02:42:08.000 There's all these apologists for that stuff. 1.00

02:42:10.000 It's like, how many fucking earthquakes do they need to have in Oklahoma before you go, hey, um, is this okay? 0.96

02:42:17.000 You guys have a thousand earthquakes a year now. 0.99

02:42:19.000 Is that cool?

02:42:19.000 Like, yeah, as long as it's under a thousand.

02:42:21.000 We're looking at, you know, as long as we only pollute like three or four wells a year.

02:42:27.000 We're survivors.

02:42:28.000 Everything's fine.

02:42:29.000 Yeah, we got plenty of bottled water.

02:42:31.000 But, man, I mean, there's just...

02:42:34.000 It's a constantly evolving thing.

02:42:36.000 You know, technology all across the board is getting way, way, way better.

02:42:39.000 We know way more about these migration routes than we used to.

02:42:43.000 We know way...

02:42:44.000 You know, intact migration routes are...

02:42:47.000 What we need for healthy mule deer, healthy elk.

02:42:51.000 Yeah, that's like a recent thing.

02:42:52.000 They realized how far mule deer travel, right?

02:42:55.000 It kind of blew these biologists away.

02:42:56.000 Mind-blowing, yeah.

02:42:58.000 Hundreds of miles.

02:42:58.000 We have deer in our unit that migrate 170 miles.

02:43:01.000 Whoa! 0.71

02:43:02.000 Yeah.

02:43:04.000 Wow.

02:43:04.000 They have to.

02:43:05.000 I mean, like, years like this, we've got, you know, right now we've got, I don't know, six, seven, eight feet of snow on the ground, right?

02:43:11.000 If they don't travel, it's curtains.

02:43:14.000 But when you come here, and you see no snow, but so many people, what's better?

02:43:20.000 Regarding?

02:43:21.000 I don't...

02:43:21.000 What's better?

02:43:22.000 No snow and a massive swarm of humans or eight feet of snow, not that many humans?

02:43:30.000 What do you guys prefer?

02:43:31.000 I think as long as you guys stay where you're at and I stay where I'm at.

02:43:33.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:43:34.000 Is this like a trick question?

02:43:36.000 No, it's not a trick question. 0.98

02:43:37.000 I always want to talk to people that come from a place like Ketchum and come to Los Angeles and see the fucking swarm, the hive, the... 1.00

02:43:47.000 Get on that 405 and go, what in the fuck is this thing? 0.99

02:43:50.000 Dude, I'm not gonna... 0.99

02:43:52.000 When we hopped on the bus just to go get a rental car last night, I was gripped.

02:43:57.000 Yeah, it was heavy.

02:43:59.000 I was gripped.

02:43:59.000 Felt like I was in a NASCAR race.

02:44:01.000 On a bus?

02:44:02.000 On a junior's car.

02:44:04.000 Oh yeah, they're aggressive.

02:44:05.000 They're aggressive.

02:44:06.000 You have to be.

02:44:07.000 Do you know, they did a study that showed there's a direct correlation between the amount of footsteps people take per minute and the population that they're in.

02:44:16.000 And also, the faster they talk, if the population is higher, they will say their syllables faster.

02:44:23.000 They will say words faster.

02:44:24.000 They'll say more words in a minute.

02:44:26.000 There's a direct correlation.

02:44:28.000 People from New York definitely talk faster.

02:44:30.000 Oh, yeah.

02:44:30.000 Oh, for sure.

02:44:32.000 But it's fascinating.

02:44:32.000 They walk faster, too.

02:44:34.000 Here it goes.

02:44:36.000 Senator, what is this?

02:44:37.000 Amy clears way for finishing Dakota... 1.00

02:44:39.000 Oh, Army.

02:44:40.000 Amy.

02:44:42.000 Finishing Dakota Access oil pipeline by granting easement opponents likely to appeal.

02:44:47.000 Oh, just now, huh?

02:44:49.000 Yeah.

02:44:51.000 But yeah, you know, where you guys live, it's just a completely different kind of place.

02:44:56.000 Look at the first quote.

02:44:58.000 Go back to that.

02:44:59.000 Go back to that.

02:45:00.000 You should mention that Obama approved this project in the first place so the libtards can't blame Trump. 1.00

02:45:06.000 All right, fuckface. 1.00

02:45:09.000 Libtards. 1.00

02:45:10.000 Oh. 0.99

02:45:11.000 That is one of the best words that's come out of this whole fucking right versus left. 0.99

02:45:15.000 Oh, man. 0.98

02:45:16.000 I mean, like I said, I'm just speaking off the cuff there.

02:45:19.000 Like, you know, I love...

02:45:21.000 I'm an outside guy.

02:45:22.000 I don't want that stuff to ever change.

02:45:24.000 But I realize there's got to be something for everybody, too.

02:45:29.000 I mean, we're a big country.

02:45:31.000 It's more than just me in, like you said, super out-of-the-way place in Idaho. 0.86

02:45:35.000 Look, I don't ever want to live in New York City, but I know a lot of people fucking love it. 0.84

02:45:40.000 And good. 0.98

02:45:41.000 Go have it.

02:45:41.000 Good luck with it.

02:45:43.000 But it's interesting when I see guys like you that come from Idaho... 1.00

02:45:46.000 And then come down here to Los Angeles, and I see the look in your face, and you're like, fuck this place. 0.99

02:45:51.000 You're like, you can't wait to get out of here. 1.00

02:45:53.000 I live here.

02:45:54.000 I'm raising a family here.

02:45:55.000 This is where I do my work. 1.00

02:45:57.000 You guys are like, fuck this place, right? 1.00

02:45:59.000 It's just interesting. 1.00

02:46:01.000 It's like the driving.

02:46:02.000 I don't know.

02:46:03.000 Cal, I ran a stoplight already.

02:46:05.000 I'm like, I don't know.

02:46:07.000 The hive, it gets to you.

02:46:09.000 Too late road, right?

02:46:09.000 Too much going on.

02:46:10.000 It's crazy.

02:46:11.000 You feel it.

02:46:11.000 You feel the pressure on the hive.

02:46:13.000 Oh, man.

02:46:14.000 Yeah.

02:46:14.000 Putting your blinker on means, like, to the next guy, it's like when you put your blinker on to change lanes, that means here.

02:46:20.000 It means, like, close that space, you know?

02:46:21.000 Speed up. 1.00

02:46:22.000 Don't let that fucker in. 1.00

02:46:23.000 Exactly. 1.00

02:46:23.000 He's gonna slow me down by one-tenth of a second. 1.00

02:46:25.000 It all adds up.

02:46:26.000 Hand-to-hand combat.

02:46:27.000 It is.

02:46:27.000 It all adds up.

02:46:28.000 It's very intense.

02:46:29.000 It's very intense.

02:46:31.000 Alright, gentlemen.

02:46:32.000 This has been a fun conversation.

02:46:33.000 Well, thanks. 0.98

02:46:34.000 I hope we illuminated a lot of these issues with people and fuck HR 622. Yes, sir. 0.98

02:46:41.000 And any bills like it.

02:46:42.000 And we need to do the same thing we did to 621. We need to do that to 622 and contact that guy and start the whole campaign all over again because you just can't remove the resources that are going to protect those lands.

02:46:53.000 They're going to keep coming.

02:46:54.000 It's very important.

02:46:55.000 So thank you guys for what you do, and your website is firstlight.com, L-I-T-E. Correct. 0.96

02:47:00.000 Is it firstlighthunting.com?

02:47:02.000 No, firstlight.

02:47:03.000 Firstlight.com.

02:47:04.000 Firstlight.com, one word.

02:47:06.000 And anything else?

02:47:08.000 Thank you, buddy.

02:47:09.000 That's good.

02:47:09.000 Thanks, Joe.

02:47:10.000 Thank you, guys.

02:47:10.000 Yeah.

02:47:11.000 Bye, everybody.

02:47:12.000 See ya.

The Joe Rogan Experience - February 08, 2017

Joe Rogan Experience #914 - Ryan Callaghan & Kenton Carruth

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript