The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #968 - Kelly Brogan

00:00:05.000 Boom.

00:00:06.000 We're live.

00:00:06.000 That's it.

00:00:07.000 Just like that.

00:00:08.000 So thank you for doing this.

00:00:09.000 Welcome.

00:00:10.000 What's going on?

00:00:11.000 Total pleasure.

00:00:11.000 Nothing.

00:00:12.000 Happy to be in LA. Are you?

00:00:14.000 I am always.

00:00:15.000 New York's good right now though, right?

00:00:17.000 It's good.

00:00:17.000 It's like June-ish.

00:00:19.000 It's like an addictive relationship, but most of us would rather be in California.

00:00:23.000 New York is?

00:00:24.000 Yeah.

00:00:25.000 Yeah.

00:00:27.000 You're a psychiatrist.

00:00:28.000 I am.

00:00:29.000 I would think that there is ample work in New York.

00:00:33.000 Just the environment that New York provides.

00:00:36.000 People stacked on top of each other like that. 1.00

00:00:38.000 Beep beep, Hong Kong, fuck you, all that. 0.99

00:00:41.000 Like, I would assume all that stress leads to a lot of people with a... 1.00

00:00:46.000 Absolutely.

00:00:47.000 It's like if you were a fisherman, you want to live near a river, right?

00:00:50.000 Right.

00:00:50.000 And it's fetishized in New York, too, to have a psychiatrist.

00:00:53.000 It's sort of almost expected that you do.

00:00:56.000 So not only is there, like, ample supply and demand, but then it's, you know...

00:01:01.000 It's a thing to talk about.

00:01:03.000 Yeah.

00:01:03.000 What's that about?

00:01:04.000 Can you explain that?

00:01:06.000 I think it's like, you know, Woody Allen level, right?

00:01:10.000 Like sort of embracing your shadow.

00:01:12.000 And there's something refreshing about it because we don't pretend to be okay.

00:01:15.000 I mean, we're deeply not okay in New York, chronically.

00:01:19.000 Well, is someone okay, like in general, anywhere?

00:01:22.000 Is there a spot like, oh, yeah, Seattle, they've got it nailed?

00:01:25.000 I mean, there's this term actually in the medical literature, believe it or not, called paleodeficit disorder.

00:01:30.000 And it just refers to like how far have you strayed from the path in your lifestyle?

00:01:34.000 Like basic stuff, green space, movement, you know, sleep.

00:01:38.000 And I would imagine that if you have more of those components intact, you're probably a bit more okay than if you're living, you know, in, you know, midtown Manhattan.

00:01:48.000 Right.

00:01:49.000 Like Seattle in the summer to me is a really good place because it's so green and it's so pretty and the ocean's right there.

00:01:57.000 So you're getting some good air and then you're getting sun because it's the summer so you don't have that seasonal depression thing that goes on.

00:02:04.000 I mean, I imagine they're doing better.

00:02:06.000 They're doing better this summer.

00:02:07.000 I've never been there.

00:02:07.000 You never?

00:02:07.000 I've heard it's like crazy beautiful, yeah.

00:02:09.000 It's awesome.

00:02:10.000 It's awesome.

00:02:11.000 But those winters, they get to you.

00:02:13.000 After the 30th day of rain, you're like, come on. 1.00

00:02:16.000 This is stupid. 1.00

00:02:17.000 Like, how much water do you need? 1.00

00:02:19.000 See, I'm like a big, big winter complainer, and I have been my whole life.

00:02:22.000 So I complain 10 months of the year of what it's like to live...

00:02:26.000 In the Northeast.

00:02:27.000 But recently I've been playing around with the idea that there's actually something cool about, like, you know, sort of cyclical living.

00:02:36.000 It's almost just, like, if you embrace it, then there's something, just like everything's dead and miserable for a period of time, and then it blooms, and then you get to experience, like, this rebirth, and then it, you know, flourishes, and then it dies again.

00:02:52.000 But there's another perspective on that actually being I don't know.

00:02:56.000 Like if you work with it.

00:02:57.000 It's sort of like a woman who's on birth control has no idea that there's any point to, you know, a cycle of energy over the course of the month, right?

00:03:07.000 And she sort of thinks that's annoying.

00:03:08.000 But there's a way you can wrap your mind around it where you work with it.

00:03:11.000 What do you mean?

00:03:12.000 Okay, so like if you're on birth control, you have no menstrual cycle, right?

00:03:16.000 So you're just like a man.

00:03:18.000 You're like a flat line the whole month.

00:03:20.000 But there's actually something really empowering.

00:03:23.000 If you understand how to work with your energy shifts, because naturally, like a woman's natural... 0.99

00:03:30.000 I know this is really what you want to be talking about, right?

00:03:31.000 I do.

00:03:31.000 I don't.

00:03:32.000 I mean, it's alien to me, so I do want to hear it.

00:03:34.000 So, like, I figured this out.

00:03:35.000 I'm 39. I was on birth control for 12 years, so I never knew what it meant to have, like, a menstrual cycle until very recently, because then I had two kids, breastfeeding.

00:03:46.000 So a couple decades into my life, I'm just figuring this out.

00:03:49.000 But you have, like, totally different kinds of energy over the course of the month.

00:03:53.000 And you have to know how to work with that.

00:03:54.000 So there's a kind of energy that, you know, you want to go out and socialize or you want to stay in and work or you want to sleep more or less.

00:04:00.000 And if you don't know how to ride that, then you could be sort of taken off guard by it.

00:04:06.000 But if you know how to work with it, it's so much more powerful than just having this like artificial hijacking of your endocrine system.

00:04:14.000 That's interesting.

00:04:14.000 So there's like some sort of analogy to be drawn between the cycles of nature and the cycles of your body month to month.

00:04:22.000 Huh.

00:04:22.000 I would have never considered that.

00:04:23.000 I never even thought about it.

00:04:25.000 But I have thought about birth control before, about how crazy it is that you give a woman a hormone that convinces her body that she's perpetually pregnant.

00:04:32.000 And that a giant percentage of women are on it for convenience. 1.00

00:04:36.000 Yes.

00:04:36.000 Or even for other medical issues, like skin issues, right?

00:04:39.000 Exactly.

00:04:40.000 Exactly, yeah.

00:04:40.000 I mean, when I... I've always been a feminist, right?

00:04:43.000 So even when I was...

00:04:45.000 Younger and very much asleep, I identified as a feminist.

00:04:48.000 And I was one of those people who thought that birth control was like a female entitlement.

00:04:53.000 Like, how dare you not make this free and widely available?

00:04:57.000 But as I began to research more about it and more about how it's in many ways like the ultimate You know, not to sound too inflammatory, but the ultimate tool for oppression of, you know, the modern woman.

00:05:10.000 Now I find it incredible that we, you know, that we're still taking it because it seems like a good idea, right?

00:05:17.000 Who wants to deal with your annoying menstrual cycle? 1.00

00:05:19.000 Who wants to get pregnant? 1.00

00:05:20.000 Who wants to have endometriosis or polycystic ovary? 0.93

00:05:23.000 You know, who wants to have acne or like hair growing in weird places?

00:05:28.000 Yeah.

00:05:47.000 And like the pheromones you secrete, you know, and there was just a million woman study in Scandinavia that showed about the vast increase in antidepressant prescribing for teenagers who are prescribed birth control.

00:06:01.000 So it's the beginning of sort of, it's like a gateway drug sometimes for psych meds too.

00:06:07.000 I heard, I had a friend who, one of his good friends, his daughter died from some complications with taking birth control pills and smoking cigarettes.

00:06:16.000 Yes, pulmonary embolism probably.

00:06:19.000 Smoking cigarettes apparently along with the birth control pills are extremely dangerous, but so many do it.

00:06:24.000 Of course.

00:06:25.000 And you don't even have to have that additional risk factor, you know, because birth control, whether it's the pill or something called the NuvaRing, by itself has that.

00:06:34.000 You know, I'm contacted often by parents of girls who have died from pulmonary embolism who've now become like activists in this realm.

00:06:42.000 It's because of birth control pills.

00:06:43.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:06:44.000 No, it's like a known mechanism.

00:06:46.000 And it's a known risk factor.

00:06:47.000 Like, I think that's not being suppressed or hidden.

00:06:50.000 It's just that we are sort of entrained to dismiss the risks as we attach to the promise.

00:06:56.000 So we sort of like collude in ignoring that potential, you know?

00:07:00.000 That's so interesting because most people when they think about the birth control pill they think about it as something that liberated women because they can control whether or not they got pregnant and they were allowed for the first time to have careers and do whatever they wanted to because they didn't have to worry about being trapped.

00:07:18.000 That's right.

00:07:19.000 That's the story.

00:07:20.000 But that's the biological free lunch thing, right?

00:07:24.000 Exactly.

00:07:24.000 Isn't there also a lot of issues?

00:07:26.000 Chris Ryan was on here, Dr. Chris Ryan, the author of Sex at Dawn.

00:07:29.000 He was on here and he was talking about how women can, like if you smell the clothes of other men, you can literally tell the men that you are attracted to, you would be biologically compatible with those men.

00:07:42.000 And that when they did these same studies on women who were on the birth control pill, they couldn't smell the difference.

00:07:47.000 That's right.

00:07:48.000 It's called the T-shirt study.

00:07:49.000 Yeah.

00:07:50.000 How does that work?

00:07:50.000 Could you explain that?

00:07:51.000 Well, essentially, the premise of pharmaceutical medicine is that you can just pull one little thread of the spider web and leave the rest of it intact.

00:08:02.000 Everything else is going to be fine.

00:08:03.000 We're only working on this one area.

00:08:05.000 So with birth control, for example, the idea is we're just, you know...

00:08:10.000 Taking over the management of your sex hormones, but the rest of your body is going to be totally unaffected.

00:08:15.000 And of course, as we learn more about how all of these systems are totally and inextricably interconnected, we have a better understanding of how when you...

00:08:29.000 We're good to go.

00:08:41.000 We haven't even begun to look through the keyhole of the effects on brain and neuropeptides in these arenas where we don't have any idea what hormonal secretion is about.

00:08:53.000 We just have to defer to the probability that our bodies are more complex than we've expected.

00:08:59.000 Right?

00:09:00.000 Like, begun to understand.

00:09:01.000 So your biology is meant to guide you.

00:09:04.000 It's meant to empower you.

00:09:06.000 And it's meant to, you know, create a sense of vitality if you can inhabit your body and be in a truce with it.

00:09:14.000 That's part of the problem with the mindset of birth control is, I'm just going to, you know, take this over.

00:09:20.000 I'm going to manage this.

00:09:21.000 And so who knows?

00:09:22.000 Maybe even it's a top-down, like, mindset thing that begins to sort of divorce you from...

00:09:28.000 Your sensibilities.

00:09:30.000 We don't really know, is the point.

00:09:31.000 That's going to be a common answer, I think, I have to give you, is that we don't really know.

00:09:37.000 But it does make sense that the subtle nature of your biology that involves sort of guiding your human interactions, and particularly sex-related interactions, is going to be derailed.

00:09:49.000 I mean, low libido is one of, ironically, the most common things.

00:09:53.000 Disclosed side effects of birth control.

00:09:55.000 So you're taking it so that you can have unprotected sex.

00:09:58.000 We don't feel like having sex ultimately anyway.

00:10:01.000 So it's not even really that well thought out, I think, by most of us.

00:10:05.000 It's very bizarre.

00:10:06.000 But what other alternatives are there?

00:10:08.000 I mean, if you're a woman and you want to have control of whether or not you get pregnant, there's not a whole lot of options other than weird ones like IUDs, which seem real weird.

00:10:18.000 Yeah, I mean, some of my patients use what's called a copper IUD. You know, it's funny because I had one put in and two and a half, it cost like $700, and two and a half weeks later I had it taken out because I just felt weird about having like a pharmaceutical metal in my hand.

00:10:33.000 My body was felt like a tracking device.

00:10:35.000 Could you feel it in there?

00:10:36.000 No, no.

00:10:37.000 No, it's not really a thing.

00:10:39.000 It's just like psychologically felt weird.

00:10:41.000 But I use something called a DAISY, which is like this highly calibrated thermometer.

00:10:46.000 And you track your, you know, because you have six fertile days a month.

00:10:49.000 This isn't, you know, like some major sacrifice you have to make in order to learn how your cycle works.

00:10:56.000 And then you get the benefits of being In your hormonal milieu.

00:11:01.000 It's not that complicated.

00:11:05.000 But there's a learning curve.

00:11:07.000 It requires learning how to be a woman. 1.00

00:11:10.000 And also sharing the onus.

00:11:12.000 Because with all of these side effects we've been talking about, there was a male birth control study that was just terminated because of how many side effects the men didn't want to deal with.

00:11:22.000 So there's such a sociocultural double standard around this.

00:11:25.000 But if we're talking about six days a month, How about we collaborate and try and figure something out?

00:11:29.000 You know, that doesn't involve a risk of death, perhaps.

00:11:32.000 So this daisy thing just monitors your temperature and tells you exactly what's going on?

00:11:37.000 Yeah.

00:11:37.000 I mean, it's a little more sophisticated than that.

00:11:39.000 It actually has the efficacy, like, above 99% efficacy.

00:11:42.000 If you listen to it, that's part of the, you know, room for human error.

00:11:46.000 But it basically just tells you, like, have sex now.

00:11:48.000 If you want to conceive or if you don't, then don't.

00:11:52.000 So it's like a little light.

00:11:53.000 It's green, red, or yellow.

00:11:55.000 How many women are on birth control, if you had a guess, nationwide? 1.00

00:12:00.000 You know, that's a good question.

00:12:05.000 I don't know the stat offhand.

00:12:07.000 Upwards of like 10 million, I would say.

00:12:09.000 That's a staggering number of people taking some sort of a substance that alters the very nature of who they are.

00:12:17.000 Exactly.

00:12:17.000 Yeah.

00:12:18.000 I mean, my interest in it really came from looking at the psychiatric side effects because I'm very interested in medications that have potential, you know, gateway effects around psychiatric meds that we aren't informing women of before, you know, they start the prescription.

00:12:34.000 So, you know, whether it's like acid blocking medications, you know, or antibiotics, You know, birth control vaccines, these things have known psychobiological effects.

00:12:46.000 If you don't know that, then you'll never connect the dots.

00:12:49.000 And then you end up in the polypharmacy realm where you're taking multiple meds without ever knowing where the dominoes started to fall.

00:12:57.000 Right.

00:12:57.000 Yeah, I remember there was a commercial that they used to have, I don't know if they still air it, but it was for a psychiatric medication that you take who's an antidepressant when you are depressed from antidepressants.

00:13:11.000 Do you know what I'm talking about?

00:13:12.000 I think you're probably talking about Abilify.

00:13:14.000 Yes.

00:13:15.000 Yeah.

00:13:15.000 It was actually the number one prescription in America recently.

00:13:19.000 It was terrifying.

00:13:19.000 It's an antipsychotic.

00:13:20.000 Yeah, but you read the side effects.

00:13:22.000 It's like, whoa, slow down.

00:13:25.000 Like, what is this?

00:13:25.000 Like, psychotic thoughts and death and...

00:13:28.000 Yeah.

00:13:29.000 Bleeding.

00:13:30.000 Right.

00:13:30.000 And if what you were taking that had similar side effects isn't working, then you can just layer this on.

00:13:36.000 It's very common practice.

00:13:37.000 It's very rare, I would say, actually, for people to be on just one psychiatric med.

00:13:42.000 It's almost become industry standard to be taking upwards of, I would say, you know, two, three, sometimes even five.

00:13:49.000 Many of the patients I work with come to me on a cocktail of like five.

00:13:54.000 Jesus Christ!

00:13:55.000 Well, you're chasing something for years, right?

00:13:58.000 Because you're never really going to feel yourself the way you want to.

00:14:04.000 And that's what I found is really what we want.

00:14:07.000 We just want to feel comfortable in our own skin.

00:14:10.000 We just want to feel ourselves.

00:14:12.000 In fact, we don't want to be her or him or be rich or beautiful.

00:14:16.000 We just want to feel cool being who we are.

00:14:19.000 And you're never going to...

00:14:20.000 I don't want to say never.

00:14:21.000 It's very unlikely you'd feel that way.

00:14:24.000 While on a medication that has consciousness-altering effects and a slew of side effects.

00:14:29.000 And so you're going to be chasing that with the promise of other meds.

00:14:33.000 A stimulant because your Paxil is making you tired and then you need a benzodiazepine because you can't sleep.

00:14:40.000 You know, then you're sort of depressed again, and so you have another antidepressant layered on.

00:14:44.000 And then there's a fad, you know, sort of, you know, bipolar 2 medication that you could try out like Lamictal or Abilify.

00:14:52.000 And so this is sort of the culturally sanctioned approach to mental health today.

00:15:00.000 So how does a doctor know?

00:15:02.000 Like, say if they put you on some Zoloft or something like that, not to pick on Zoloft, but then they say, well, this is not really totally doing it for you.

00:15:12.000 We're thinking about stacking Abilify in with the Zoloft, and I think that just might be the ticket to your happiness.

00:15:19.000 Right, right, right.

00:15:20.000 Yeah, well, it's...

00:15:21.000 It's important to remember, right?

00:15:23.000 Like, particularly in psychiatry, there's no objective testing, measurement.

00:15:29.000 So it's not like you have a broken arm.

00:15:30.000 Like, hey, I see you have a broken arm.

00:15:32.000 We're going to put your arm in a cast.

00:15:33.000 But with a broken arm, you can get an x-ray.

00:15:35.000 Right.

00:15:35.000 And prove that you have a broken arm.

00:15:36.000 Right.

00:15:37.000 In psychiatry, there's no blood test.

00:15:38.000 There's no EEG. There's no, you know, scan of any kind.

00:15:42.000 It's a conversation.

00:15:43.000 Sometimes as short as 10 minutes.

00:15:45.000 Like, say if I came into your office and I'm like...

00:15:47.000 My office is a little different.

00:15:48.000 Okay, but just say if you're a regular psychiatrist and I'm like, man, I don't know, Kelly. 0.99

00:15:53.000 I'm a fucking mess. 0.99

00:15:54.000 I can't keep it together. 0.99

00:15:56.000 What do I do?

00:15:57.000 What do I take?

00:15:57.000 Could you just start someone off on like a low dose of something and see if it helps and they come back in a couple weeks?

00:16:02.000 Like, how does it work?

00:16:03.000 Yeah, it's like it...

00:16:05.000 It's like an art form.

00:16:06.000 I mean, you have your personal favorite medications that you feel comfortable prescribing, so you're more likely to prescribe them.

00:16:22.000 I think it was like of prescriptions that are written are written because of specific patient requests.

00:16:27.000 Oh, Jesus.

00:16:28.000 Those commercials.

00:16:29.000 Exactly.

00:16:30.000 They're getting these ideas from the fact that we are one of three countries in the world that allows for direct-to-consumer advertising.

00:16:36.000 What are the other ones?

00:16:36.000 North Korea and Russia?

00:16:38.000 No, it's surprising.

00:16:39.000 It's surprising.

00:16:40.000 Brazil and New Zealand.

00:16:42.000 Oh, wow.

00:16:42.000 That is surprising.

00:16:44.000 It's weird, right?

00:16:45.000 It confuses the hell out of me.

00:16:46.000 When I watch those commercials and those beautiful piano music playing and there's cartoon flowers that are smiling at everybody, I'm like, what are they selling me?

00:16:55.000 Yeah, but it works.

00:16:57.000 And they know it works.

00:16:58.000 Ask your doctor.

00:16:59.000 Multi-billions are put into those commercials, yeah, for good reason.

00:17:04.000 So there's no real, like, there's not like a blood test or something they give you where they say, I think this is going to be the ticket for you.

00:17:14.000 Nope.

00:17:15.000 Yeah, no, it's very impressionistic.

00:17:16.000 And that's sort of the issue.

00:17:18.000 I mean, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, the DSM, is sort of the dictionary, so to speak, in psychiatry.

00:17:25.000 And like, in the 50s, it was like 150 pages, and now it's 886 pages.

00:17:32.000 And it's grown in volume, largely dramatically.

00:17:36.000 Because of the consensus decisions of a bunch of older white men sitting around a table. 1.00

00:17:42.000 Goddamn white men. 1.00

00:17:42.000 So tired of them. 1.00

00:17:45.000 You know, almost all of them have industry ties.

00:17:49.000 And this is out there.

00:17:51.000 This isn't like conspiracy.

00:17:53.000 Yeah, no, my wife's mom was a nurse. 0.95

00:17:56.000 And she was always telling me that they would get taken out on these really nice dinners by these pharmaceutical companies.

00:18:02.000 They'd take you to a real nice restaurant, buy a steak and baked potato, and everybody could have a drink.

00:18:08.000 And they would be so willing to be very complimentary of this medication.

00:18:13.000 Oh, I know a girl who took this, and it really helped her a lot.

00:18:16.000 And you think it's not going to affect you.

00:18:18.000 Like I was in that, you know, generation two where I got taken out to five-star restaurants in Manhattan all the time.

00:18:24.000 Yeah, just buy you stuff.

00:18:25.000 It feels really good because you're making like 20 grand a year working your ass off.

00:18:29.000 And so when someone takes you to a fancy restaurant with your friends, but you could convince yourself that it's not actually going to, you know, that you're an intellectual and you're going to make your own decisions.

00:18:39.000 But All of the data suggests otherwise, that you are unduly influenced by that kind of courtship behavior.

00:18:46.000 And it's true. 0.56

00:18:48.000 So we have this sort of collusion on the part of the doctor and the patients to support industry interests over any sort of...

00:18:57.000 I don't know, shred of a scientific or evidence-based process for really diagnosing someone.

00:19:02.000 Well, especially when we're talking about something that is so subjective, where it's not like a broken arm.

00:19:07.000 Right.

00:19:07.000 Where like, Joe, you've got a broken arm.

00:19:10.000 Like, I know what to do.

00:19:10.000 We're going to set your arm and give you a cast.

00:19:13.000 It's like, so you're feeling down?

00:19:15.000 Hey, man.

00:19:16.000 Right.

00:19:16.000 I got something for you.

00:19:17.000 Do they even ask you, like, does a normal...

00:19:21.000 I guess someone who's really good would, but...

00:19:24.000 Is your diet and your sleep patterns, is that a consideration before they prescribe medication?

00:19:31.000 No, in fact, most sort of turncoat doctors like me will tell you that we have one hour of nutrition education in all of our medical school and residency training.

00:19:43.000 Are you a turncoat? 0.98

00:19:45.000 Are you considered like a rat? 0.99

00:19:47.000 Are you a bad person in the industry? 0.97

00:19:49.000 I am not welcome in the Howard Halls anymore.

00:19:51.000 No, I lost all my faculty positions.

00:19:55.000 Why?

00:19:56.000 Just for being honest about this stuff?

00:20:00.000 Because I guess the kind of science that I bring to the table, which is not my own, I don't have any original ideas, but I am really good, I think, at curating information and collecting it and synthesizing and presenting it, right?

00:20:13.000 So what I have to shine a light on is very inconvenient science for industry interests, but also for conventional practice, because, you know, I don't prescribe medication anymore under any circumstances ever.

00:20:29.000 But I do have an entire practice devoted to taking people off of medication.

00:20:35.000 So I have sort of my thing, and it's a lot based on lifestyle change, as you mentioned, right?

00:20:41.000 If you don't have your methodology as an alternative to prescribing, And you're going to acknowledge what a lot of the science says that condemns the pharmaceutical approach.

00:20:52.000 What are you going to do instead?

00:20:53.000 You just invested $200,000 of debt, blood, sweat, and tears, indentured servitude for like a decade of your training.

00:21:00.000 You're just going to give that up?

00:21:01.000 So it's a lot to expect the average psychiatrist to acknowledge anything beyond what's called consensus medicine.

00:21:10.000 It's called that because it doesn't even have a connection to the evidence.

00:21:14.000 It's not evidence-based.

00:21:16.000 It's just they all agree on it, and they're just going to keep doing it, you know?

00:21:19.000 So this consensus medicine, like in psychiatry, there's kind of like this understanding that you don't criticize the system that everybody's operating under.

00:21:27.000 You just work within that system.

00:21:29.000 Yeah, why would you bother?

00:21:31.000 You know, because it's just going to get you...

00:21:32.000 In trouble.

00:21:33.000 It's going to be uncomfortable for you.

00:21:34.000 It's going to get you in trouble.

00:21:35.000 Wow, that's so crazy.

00:21:36.000 There's no incentive, you know?

00:21:37.000 Like, I read more science than probably all my conventional colleagues put together because I have a lot of incentive to do so because I'm practicing outside of the...

00:21:46.000 You know, the gold standard, so to speak.

00:21:48.000 So when you're in the fold, why would you bother reading science?

00:21:52.000 Who cares?

00:21:52.000 You just do what you were taught to do.

00:21:54.000 Don't question it, you know?

00:21:56.000 So it's, you know, the reason that lifestyle is not presented as a relevant factor in conventional medicine is because We're good to go.

00:22:36.000 Maybe it's like of minor interest, but the real problem is your inborn genetic chemical imbalance, right?

00:22:43.000 So if that is the premise, and it's not just in psychiatry, it's in all of medicine, is gene-based determinism frees pharma to offer the only solution.

00:22:53.000 And it actually validates people on some level as the victim, right?

00:22:59.000 So like a lot of people want to feel that.

00:23:01.000 Weirdly.

00:23:03.000 You know, like their own victimization.

00:23:06.000 It feels comfortable.

00:23:07.000 Even though there's science that supports that having a healthy, nutrient-dense diet allows your body to produce all the healthy hormones and chemicals and neurotransmitters and then along with exercise, which also increases Simple stuff,

00:23:23.000 yeah.

00:23:23.000 Haven't there been studies also that show that exercise, regular aerobic exercise in particular, it does as much to treat depression as SSRIs?

00:23:33.000 More, yeah, actually.

00:23:35.000 Because the efficacy of most antidepressants is pretty embarrassing, to be frank.

00:23:41.000 Because if you really dig into the literature, it's not what you think it is, in terms of really being a viable treatment option.

00:23:49.000 So many of these natural alternatives, like, far outpace.

00:23:54.000 I mean, things even like herbs like turmeric or acupuncture, yoga, you know, exercise.

00:23:59.000 And that's just a single intervention.

00:24:01.000 So there's nothing miraculous about my approach.

00:24:04.000 It's basically just putting all those things together at once for like a synergistic effect.

00:24:08.000 So you can send your body and mind like a signal of safety, right?

00:24:13.000 And it works.

00:24:16.000 So if you're just doing one of those things in isolation, and even one of those things is more effective, then it really comes down to the mindset.

00:24:25.000 Because if you want it in a pill, it's going to be challenging for you to get results through effort or something behavioral.

00:24:33.000 So the mindset piece has become a real focus for me as being maybe the most important determinant of what's going to be an effective intervention.

00:24:42.000 The mindset piece, meaning...

00:24:43.000 Meaning what you believe, like about health.

00:24:46.000 And if you want to, you know, believe that you're broken and that, you know, chemicals are necessary to manage your scary body and mind.

00:24:55.000 I've talked to a lot of smart people that believe that.

00:24:57.000 I have a friend, she's a scientist.

00:24:59.000 She's very smart.

00:24:59.000 She's on antidepressants.

00:25:01.000 And if you talk to her, she will argue to the death. 0.98

00:25:03.000 These are critical for her life and that she needs them and she has some sort of a brain imbalance and it's no different than having some other organ in your body that doesn't function properly and you need medication for that.

00:25:14.000 We've been told that.

00:25:15.000 I was told that and I believe that for sure.

00:25:18.000 The analogy is often, well, it's like insulin to a diabetic.

00:25:21.000 It's the same thing.

00:25:22.000 And the more you, you know, challenge that, you're stigmatizing mental illness.

00:25:27.000 How dare you?

00:25:28.000 You know, I've been accused...

00:25:28.000 That's exactly the approach.

00:25:29.000 Yeah.

00:25:30.000 I've been accused of shaming women, which is, of course, the last, you know, all I care about is empowering women around their health.

00:25:40.000 Literally, I wake up every single day and devote my life to that purpose.

00:25:44.000 Like, the last thing I have any intention of doing is shaming anyone who's made this decision.

00:25:47.000 Yeah.

00:25:47.000 Well, it's just whenever something makes someone uncomfortable with their choices, they immediately want to turn someone else into an aggressor or someone who's victimizing them.

00:25:56.000 This woman that I'm friends with, it's unfortunate because I feel like if she exercised, at least she would know.

00:26:03.000 She doesn't exercise. 0.97

00:26:05.000 So if you don't exercise, you don't really know if that would help.

00:26:08.000 Right.

00:26:09.000 But I hate to be that guy because I already am.

00:26:12.000 You know, like that proselytizing, you gotta work out guy. 0.99

00:26:15.000 That's fucking annoying. 0.99

00:26:16.000 That's like the CrossFit person or the proselytizing vegan or whatever. 1.00

00:26:21.000 A new cult member.

00:26:22.000 You know, you just want to talk forever about it.

00:26:25.000 And it doesn't work because you're never going to convince someone.

00:26:26.000 You annoy people.

00:26:27.000 They hate you.

00:26:28.000 It's true.

00:26:28.000 And it's like the, you know, you bring a horse to water thing.

00:26:31.000 You know, you can't make it happen.

00:26:34.000 But there is more readiness now than I think ever before.

00:26:40.000 Like, people are ready and once they have the information, it's sort of like...

00:26:44.000 And then they just transform.

00:26:45.000 Well, these conversations are happening now more and more with people where they're starting to look at, like, what is it in my life that's causing me stress?

00:26:54.000 What is it in my life that is depleting my sleep patterns or my health?

00:27:00.000 Have I ever gotten my blood test done and find out where my nutrient levels are?

00:27:04.000 Simple stuff, yeah.

00:27:08.000 Needs are very different biologically people like people are gonna respond differently to drugs people are gonna respond differently to food It's just we come from different parts of the world and some people need different stuff And this is being called like n of one medicine and meaning like meaning the number of people in a study So like the phrase is n of one medicine because we're beginning to understand exactly what you're saying Which is yeah,

00:27:30.000 it's you this is your thing.

00:27:32.000 This is your journey.

00:27:33.000 This is very specific to you, right?

00:27:36.000 So like You know, your depression, let's say, could be because you have a B12 deficiency.

00:27:42.000 It could be because you have low thyroid function.

00:27:44.000 It could be because you're taking birth control.

00:27:47.000 It could be because, you know, your dog died. 1.00

00:27:50.000 It could be because you have a shitty job that you hate. 1.00

00:27:53.000 It could be because your marriage has to go. 0.99

00:27:55.000 And it could be because you're ready for some psychospiritual emergence, you know?

00:28:00.000 You are the only one who really knows and who really can figure it out.

00:28:04.000 But we, on the conventional side of things, seek to depersonalize it.

00:28:09.000 So it's not you.

00:28:10.000 It has nothing to do with you.

00:28:11.000 It's just a chemical process that's unfolding and you need this one size fits all intervention.

00:28:17.000 It's very disingenuous, but it's also super common.

00:28:20.000 Isn't that weird?

00:28:22.000 The access to the data is there for everybody.

00:28:25.000 It's there for psychiatrists as well.

00:28:27.000 They would know the efficiency or the effectiveness, rather, of exercise.

00:28:31.000 Right?

00:28:32.000 But that's what I'm saying.

00:28:33.000 It's really coming down to like almost religious level belief systems.

00:28:37.000 Like either you believe, right, which I used to, P.S. Either you believe that we're sort of machines, right?

00:28:45.000 Like as Alan Watts would say, we're like flesh robots on a dead rock floating in the middle of nowhere.

00:28:50.000 So everything is purposeless and random and it's just bad luck and bad genes and You know, it's like the other shoe could fall at any moment and life is just a hustle and you're just trying to survive.

00:29:01.000 And you got to avail yourself of real medicine, which is pharmaceutical medicine.

00:29:07.000 It's the only legit option.

00:29:08.000 And you just got to do it.

00:29:10.000 And you know what?

00:29:10.000 You want some credit for even having the courage to actually take the steps to take your meds, right?

00:29:14.000 So that's one mindset.

00:29:16.000 And then the other, which is, I believe, growing, is Is that we have no idea what we're doing scientifically, and we're just looking through the keyhole.

00:29:27.000 And science is a process.

00:29:29.000 It's not like a destination where the science is settled, my favorite phrase.

00:29:33.000 So, you know, the body itself has this, you know, chiropractors call it vitalism, like has this innate wisdom, and it doesn't Make mistakes.

00:29:43.000 Like, it doesn't mess up.

00:29:45.000 Every single thing your body is doing is in wise response to a perceived, you know, stimulus, right?

00:29:51.000 Except diseases, of course, right?

00:29:53.000 Like cancer.

00:29:54.000 No.

00:29:55.000 Leukemia.

00:29:56.000 No, it would include without exception.

00:29:57.000 Really?

00:29:58.000 Without, and I could explain what I mean by that.

00:30:00.000 But, right, so if I have an ache or a pain, or my hair is falling out, or I have a tumor growing out of the side of my body, My first response, it's possible, could be curiosity.

00:30:16.000 It could be, what is this about?

00:30:19.000 Where am I off?

00:30:21.000 Because in indigenous cultures, for example, illness is not something that your body is doing.

00:30:28.000 It's the manifestation of things out of balance with you and your soul, with you and the relationships in your life, with you and nature, and maybe the collective itself.

00:30:39.000 So it's this expression, it's this physical manifestation of something much deeper that has roots.

00:30:45.000 And until you understand what those roots are for you, you won't resolve it.

00:30:49.000 Right, but like serious errors like birth defects and things along those lines, that's not like a wise response to anything, right?

00:30:55.000 It's an error.

00:30:56.000 It's a good question.

00:30:57.000 You know, the sort of like congenital question, like if you're just like born without a leg, I mean, you could take it to the extent where you say, okay, so what drove the birth defect, whether it was some sort of, you know, okay, so let's back up a second,

00:31:12.000 because epigenetics, right, is the word du jour for beyond or above, actually, technically.

00:31:21.000 Right?

00:31:22.000 So the genes are interesting, but perhaps as insignificant as like 1% of what makes us sick, right?

00:31:28.000 Or well.

00:31:29.000 We never study what makes us well.

00:31:31.000 It's like a total black box.

00:31:32.000 But epigenetics is like how does the environment impact our genes, right?

00:31:37.000 So you could argue that a lot of congenital...

00:31:40.000 You know, sort of malformations and things like that, because this was an area of study for me when I was prescribing to pregnant women, which, believe it or not, was my specialty, prescribing psychiatric meds to pregnant women, that it is in response to that exposure.

00:31:56.000 And it's the body's method of adapting to an exposure.

00:32:00.000 Is it an adaptation or is it just an error?

00:32:02.000 Like if someone's born without a leg, what kind of adaptation is that?

00:32:06.000 It seems like some sort of a genetic error, no?

00:32:09.000 It depends how you want to look at it.

00:32:11.000 I mean, to me, there are no errors because the body is responding to a perceived stimulus.

00:32:16.000 Now, if you throw a lot of toxicity, you know, in the way of your body, there may be a limit to which it can or will accommodate, right?

00:32:24.000 Because, like, something confusing for me was at one point I was reflecting on the fact that, you know, we've had all of these environmental exposures for, like, about 100, 150 years, like, since the industrial...

00:32:36.000 Revolution, right?

00:32:37.000 So we live totally different lives now with all these toxic exposures that we sit all day and we don't sleep and we have Monsanto and all the rest.

00:32:45.000 Pretty much for the past 100 years or so.

00:32:48.000 We can adapt.

00:32:49.000 My body is adapting within the hours that we're hanging out.

00:32:55.000 Why would it not have adapted over the past 100 years?

00:32:58.000 And like a paleo argument is like we've evolved the same way for 95% of our evolution and now we just haven't taken enough time.

00:33:10.000 To evolve, to catch up with today's modern influences, right?

00:33:14.000 But I actually think we're not meant to accommodate this.

00:33:18.000 And we will self-extinguish, like, if we don't course-correct, which I have faith we will do.

00:33:23.000 But we're not meant to adapt to this kind of lifestyle.

00:33:26.000 You mean like cubicle life, traffic?

00:33:28.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:33:30.000 Chemicals, you know, chemical pollution.

00:33:31.000 This will be the end of people if we don't course-correct?

00:33:33.000 I think we will.

00:33:34.000 And I think it's happening pretty much.

00:33:37.000 Like, I think even though we could biologically adapt, I think we won't because there is like a cosmic intelligence that is holding us accountable to a certain level of respect.

00:33:51.000 For this human organism, a certain level of respect for the privilege of being alive, you know?

00:33:56.000 And the way we're living today, just like trashing ourselves and trashing this planet, is a violation.

00:34:04.000 So, I don't know.

00:34:05.000 It's like a subtle point, but I think the point is we're not going to adapt.

00:34:09.000 So don't wait for it, you know?

00:34:11.000 And we're just going to get sicker and sicker and sicker and die.

00:34:13.000 And perhaps that is the most intelligent response. 0.99

00:34:15.000 Damn, someone's a voice of doom and gloom. 0.99

00:34:18.000 No, I said it's going to get better, remember? 1.00

00:34:20.000 Right.

00:34:21.000 Yeah, it seems like the sacrifice for productivity, the daily sacrifice for productivity that comes at the expense of health and happiness is the norm.

00:34:31.000 That's what a lot of people deal with.

00:34:33.000 They deal with having bills, as you were pointing out about exorbitant medical bills.

00:34:39.000 So many people that are in the medical industry start their practice or start practicing being a doctor, a professional doctor, with a quarter-million-dollar debt.

00:34:49.000 Which is crazy.

00:34:50.000 It's so much money.

00:34:52.000 It's so crazy.

00:34:54.000 What a terrible idea.

00:34:56.000 What's almost mandatory for any civilization?

00:35:00.000 Well, you need healthcare, for sure.

00:35:02.000 You need to be able to take care of people.

00:35:03.000 I got an idea. 1.00

00:35:04.000 Let's take those people that you need to make these critical decisions to save your life and let's fuck them over. 1.00

00:35:10.000 Let's saddle those people up with crazy debt and leave them trapped in a world of stress. 1.00

00:35:15.000 I got an even better idea.

00:35:16.000 When they're going through their residency, let's not let them sleep.

00:35:19.000 Right, exactly.

00:35:19.000 Let's just keep them up.

00:35:20.000 Keep them caffeinated, sugared. 1.00

00:35:22.000 Keep fucking working. 1.00

00:35:23.000 Give them pills. 1.00

00:35:23.000 Give them amphetamines. 1.00

00:35:25.000 You know, give them Adderall. 0.89

00:35:27.000 You need a prescription, Sally.

00:35:29.000 Are you tired, Sally?

00:35:30.000 I got a little pick-me-up.

00:35:31.000 It's called Adderall.

00:35:33.000 Sweetie, it's not your fault. 0.88

00:35:34.000 You've got ADHD, D-S-T-U-V. Exactly. 0.89

00:35:38.000 Q-R-S. But that's how it's like a hazing. 0.99

00:35:41.000 It's a hazing process, not unlike the military, you know, so that you remain loyal.

00:35:47.000 I mean, that's obviously one perspective on it.

00:35:49.000 But that's what I'm saying, right?

00:35:50.000 Like, I was $200,000 in debt.

00:35:52.000 It took a lot for me to just like jump ship and say, okay, whatever I, you know, invested that in, I'm just gonna walk away from it.

00:35:59.000 Most people, you know, are not in a position to do that.

00:36:02.000 And perhaps that's part of the design.

00:36:03.000 I don't know.

00:36:04.000 Well, even if it's not a design, it's a very efficient survival mechanism for the industry. 0.97

00:36:09.000 It just seems like one of the worst ways for someone to start a career in taking care of people is to be all fucked up themselves. 0.93

00:36:17.000 But they need to be broken down in that way to stay in line. 0.97

00:36:21.000 It's just basic, sort of hierarchical...

00:36:26.000 Is it a conspiracy or is it people just taking advantage of this need and being greedy and just charging exorbitant amounts of money and having the whole thing subsidized by the government so they could be expensive and then the whole thing is crazy and also here's the big one that a lot of people maybe if you're a kid you're not aware of this Your student loans haunt you till you're dead. 1.00

00:36:51.000 You cannot get out of those fuckers. 0.99

00:36:53.000 You could buy a Ferrari. 1.00

00:36:56.000 You could be stupid and buy a Ferrari and go, God damn it, I can't afford this car. 1.00

00:37:00.000 And you go bankrupt. 1.00

00:37:01.000 And they will allow you to go bankrupt.

00:37:04.000 That can happen.

00:37:05.000 You can have a business, make terrible decisions, lose all your money, go bankrupt, and literally be absolved of your debt.

00:37:11.000 Except your student loans. 1.00

00:37:14.000 That shit is in your DNA, kids. 1.00

00:37:16.000 Keep you tethered. 1.00

00:37:17.000 They keep you.

00:37:18.000 You have to pay that.

00:37:20.000 You have to.

00:37:21.000 It's crazy.

00:37:22.000 It's so nuts how much money it is.

00:37:25.000 When you find out what the student loan industry is in this country and how much money children go... 1.00

00:37:32.000 You're a fucking child when you're You're 18 years old, right? 0.98

00:37:34.000 So you make some ridiculous decision to go to some school and you get some grant or you get some sort of scholarship and then the rest of it you're going to get loans or whatever the hell your situation is. 1.00

00:37:44.000 And then you get out of four years and then you go and do your masters, you go and do some graduate work. 1.00

00:37:51.000 Oh, you're fucked! 1.00

00:37:52.000 You're fucked! 1.00

00:37:53.000 You're so broke! 1.00

00:37:54.000 And then if you get out, what are the odds you even get a job in your field?

00:37:59.000 You have to scramble to try to make some money, and then you have this never-ending pool of debt that you have to suck a little bit out of every month.

00:38:09.000 It's like living for the oasis on the horizon.

00:38:13.000 But that's what we do in this country.

00:38:15.000 You know, we just are constantly waiting for it to feel okay.

00:38:18.000 Constantly waiting until we get there.

00:38:20.000 We're not getting there.

00:38:21.000 I think that free education, I mean, if it would be possible, if it is possible to do it without ruining the educational system, if it's not already ruined, if it is possible to do that, it would be like one of the best things we could ever do for young people.

00:38:34.000 Just keep them from being saddled down with some bullshit that you have to keep with you for the rest of your life. 0.74

00:38:40.000 So you, like, are handicapped out the gate. 1.00

00:38:43.000 Yeah, it's crazy.

00:38:44.000 And it also, it inhibits any risk-taking that you're gonna have.

00:38:48.000 Exactly.

00:38:48.000 Any chance, like, to jump ship and try something new.

00:38:51.000 Like, maybe you're doing something, but all the while you have this idea, God, I think this is really what I'm supposed to be doing.

00:38:57.000 I'm always thinking about it. 0.74

00:38:58.000 I gotta take a chance, but I have this fucking debt, and the only way to Really pay this debt off if I enter into this same... 0.96

00:39:04.000 That's it. 0.96

00:39:05.000 That's a really important point because if you sort of look across dimensions culturally, they're all geared towards supporting a certain kind of mindset and mentality, which is productivity-oriented, which is...

00:39:17.000 You know, capitalism and consumer supportive in terms of that, you know, sort of financial apparatus.

00:39:24.000 And so the things and elements, you know, like Graham Hancock has talked about this, you know, the elements that are convenient to that paradigm, including psychiatric meds and even alcohol on some level, like these more sort of suppressive, consciousness suppressive tools.

00:39:39.000 Are sanctioned, right?

00:39:41.000 But the things that would encourage risk-taking, encourage creative expression, encourage, you know, sort of consciousness expansion are, you know, demonized or, you know, rendered illegal because they're inconvenient to the paradigm.

00:39:54.000 I guess, but honestly, I think it's a victim of circumstance more than anything.

00:39:58.000 I believe that when the Psychedelic Act of 1970 was put into play, it was clearly put into play because they were trying to arrest people that were in the civil rights movement and the anti-war movement.

00:40:12.000 That's been proven.

00:40:13.000 It's been proven that there was a collusion and that what they were trying to do...

00:40:16.000 Was make it so that they could go after these people in the civil rights movement, go after these people that were in the anti-war movement, and they would catch them for drugs and arrest them, and they would cripple these movements.

00:40:27.000 And this is all documented real clear by the Nixon administration.

00:40:31.000 The reason why they passed That sweeping psychedelics act of 1970, which covered a lot of stuff that's not even psychoactive.

00:40:38.000 They didn't even know what they were doing.

00:40:40.000 And they missed some of the big ones.

00:40:41.000 They missed like 5-methoxy-DMT, which is one of the most potent psychedelic drugs known to man. 0.98

00:40:46.000 Just a few years ago, you used to be able to buy that shit online from chemical companies. 0.98

00:40:50.000 They would give you like a jug of it. 0.99

00:40:52.000 They could get a whole city high for a month.

00:40:55.000 And you could go buy it with a credit card.

00:40:57.000 Not that I know of anybody who did it.

00:40:59.000 And I certainly didn't.

00:41:00.000 And I definitely still don't have any of it.

00:41:02.000 But if I did, it's not even illegal.

00:41:04.000 That's what's crazy.

00:41:05.000 It's like they made stuff that was a normal part of human use for thousands and thousands of years.

00:41:12.000 They made it highly illegal.

00:41:13.000 And they did it at a time when they were trying to...

00:41:17.000 Break down these people that were trying to change society, right?

00:41:21.000 So that was 1970. But along the way, I think what's really happened is it became a matter of financial risk.

00:41:29.000 Like, marijuana's a big one.

00:41:31.000 Like, financial risk of the pharmaceutical drug companies if they found out that there's so many different things that marijuana could help.

00:41:38.000 Whether it is people's appetite or certain arthritic conditions or you can go down the list.

00:41:47.000 Kids with epilepsy.

00:41:49.000 It's a huge factor on children with autism, especially edible marijuana.

00:41:53.000 All these different things that it treats.

00:41:56.000 If that was made legal and people started turning to that and exercising a holistic approach, it would cost the pharmaceutical companies literally billions of dollars a year.

00:42:06.000 So I think that's the big conspiracy.

00:42:08.000 I think it's not really a paradigm, consciousness sort of a thing as much as it's a financial thing.

00:42:16.000 They're the same.

00:42:17.000 They're totally related.

00:42:19.000 I agree.

00:42:19.000 But I don't think the people that are suppressing it are even aware of the effects.

00:42:23.000 I would agree.

00:42:24.000 No, I would agree.

00:42:24.000 There's no master puppet string puller.

00:42:28.000 It's like this organism that's just moved only in one direction.

00:42:33.000 Yes, money.

00:42:34.000 The same reason why, also involved in trying to keep these drugs illegal, you have prison guard unions because they want to keep their money coming in.

00:42:42.000 You have police unions.

00:42:44.000 I mean, there's a lot of that where you find lobbying by these unlikely groups and you're like, I don't understand.

00:42:50.000 And then you go, oh, they just want to make more money.

00:42:52.000 They're more than willing to lock people up.

00:42:55.000 They're more than willing to demonize helpful things that grow naturally and have virtually no negative effects in terms of your health.

00:43:03.000 Things like marijuana.

00:43:04.000 Totally.

00:43:05.000 I mean, that's why I, you know, when I speak about this, because I used to be really in, like, warrior mode on this topic.

00:43:13.000 How so?

00:43:13.000 Huh?

00:43:13.000 How so?

00:43:14.000 Like, what do you mean by warrior mode?

00:43:15.000 Because I just thought, okay, like, I've, you know, once I woke up, whatever, it was almost 10 years ago.

00:43:19.000 Do you ever use hashtag woke?

00:43:21.000 Do you ever write that?

00:43:21.000 No.

00:43:22.000 No, okay.

00:43:23.000 Should I? No.

00:43:23.000 Maybe I should.

00:43:24.000 No, it's just, it's a joke with the kids today.

00:43:27.000 Hashtag woke or hashtag woke AF. I'm old.

00:43:30.000 I'm old, too.

00:43:31.000 Woke AF. That's good.

00:43:33.000 Woke as fuck. 0.99

00:43:33.000 Yeah, thanks. 0.99

00:43:34.000 I got that.

00:43:37.000 I'm a quick study.

00:43:38.000 So when you became aware of all this?

00:43:41.000 When I became aware, I was pissed.

00:43:42.000 Was it a gradual process?

00:43:44.000 No.

00:43:45.000 No?

00:43:45.000 No.

00:43:47.000 I got, like, sick, I guess.

00:43:50.000 It wasn't very dramatic, but my big sob story is that I was diagnosed with my first health condition, which is an autoimmune disorder.

00:43:56.000 What is it?

00:43:57.000 After my first pregnancy, Hashimoto's.

00:43:59.000 Oh, I have that.

00:44:00.000 Oh, really?

00:44:00.000 Yes.

00:44:01.000 Ah.

00:44:01.000 I know.

00:44:01.000 That's interesting.

00:44:02.000 My dad and my brother do.

00:44:03.000 My mom has it.

00:44:04.000 Also, which is not as common in men, but probably because nobody's looking for it.

00:44:10.000 Yeah, so I was diagnosed with that, and I just had this intuitive sense that I wasn't going to go to a conventional doctor, even though I had never, ever...

00:44:18.000 I've done anything but dismiss alternative medicine.

00:44:21.000 I was hardcore into the pharmaceutical model, very into science from that perspective.

00:44:27.000 But I knew that all they had to offer was Synthroid, and I had enough patients that never felt well on it.

00:44:34.000 Synthroid's weird stuff.

00:44:36.000 I took that stuff for a while, and then I switched to Armour Thyroid.

00:44:39.000 And that's one reason why I got pissed at Dr. Drew.

00:44:42.000 When Dr. Drew was giving that...

00:44:46.000 When he was talking about Hillary Clinton and all of her health issues, and he was going over her prescription, he was mocking the fact that she was on Armour Thyroid.

00:44:53.000 He was saying that that's old.

00:44:55.000 That's an old way of treating him. 0.99

00:44:56.000 I'm like, he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. 0.96

00:44:58.000 He's absolutely wrong, because I went through a bunch of different stuff, and then when I took Armour Thyroid, all of the symptoms went away. 0.98

00:45:05.000 Gone.

00:45:05.000 And that's what the data shows, that people feel subjectively better on T3 containing.

00:45:09.000 Yeah, well, explain what that is.

00:45:10.000 It comes from pig thyroids.

00:45:11.000 Yeah.

00:45:12.000 Yeah, which is fascinating.

00:45:13.000 It's a glandular.

00:45:13.000 And he's not wrong because it is an old-fashioned medicine.

00:45:16.000 He's wrong that it's ineffective, though.

00:45:18.000 He was talking about how outdated it is.

00:45:20.000 And that's subjectively people feel better on it.

00:45:23.000 So I took that for something similar called Nature Throid for a while.

00:45:28.000 But I went to a naturopath, which is so funny that I did that at that time.

00:45:34.000 That sounds like a hippie.

00:45:35.000 Was it a dirty place with macrame and stuff? 0.83

00:45:38.000 No, it smelled really good.

00:45:40.000 Ferns?

00:45:41.000 Do you have any ferns?

00:45:41.000 She was very friendly.

00:45:42.000 Oh, she was friendly?

00:45:43.000 Did she smell like patchouli or incense?

00:45:45.000 Yes.

00:45:46.000 Oh, she did?

00:45:46.000 Absolutely.

00:45:47.000 That was good.

00:45:48.000 It felt right, even though it seemed very wrong at the moment.

00:45:52.000 No, I did.

00:45:53.000 And I put it into remission in the space of like a year.

00:45:58.000 And my antibodies were like in the high 2000s.

00:46:00.000 My TSH was like 20. What did you do to put it into remission?

00:46:04.000 So the same things I do with my patients.

00:46:07.000 So I initially just changed my diet.

00:46:10.000 So initially, I just very simply at her recommendation, and I'm Italian.

00:46:15.000 I grew up Italian.

00:46:15.000 My mom's from Italy.

00:46:17.000 And I ate cheese and bread of some variety, like five times a day, literally, for my whole life.

00:46:25.000 So the two things, of course, she asked me to take out were gluten and dairy. 0.99

00:46:29.000 Damn it. 0.97

00:46:29.000 So it was a very amazing transition, but my early win was that I started like pooping every day and hadn't ever done that in my whole life. 0.97

00:46:38.000 Congratulations.

00:46:38.000 Thank you.

00:46:39.000 Thank you.

00:46:40.000 These things matter.

00:46:41.000 And so I was like, wow, she must be on to something.

00:46:44.000 And then later I layered in other stuff.

00:46:47.000 Were you eating a lot of vegetables at the time?

00:46:51.000 No.

00:46:51.000 I think it was more about what I took out at that point than what I put in.

00:46:57.000 But when I saw the change on paper, I was like, this is not even supposed to be possible.

00:47:03.000 This is literally not even—we're not even taught that this is possible, let alone that it is anything— I think?

00:47:30.000 And that's when I just turned over every stone, like everything, every sacred cow, whether all these meds we were talking about, like, you know, statins or acid blockers or antibiotics.

00:47:42.000 Then I got on to psych meds and then I started to look at the science supporting a very different kind of Perspective on, you know, this interconnected model and the gut microbiome and, you know, sort of the impact of belief on our, you know, biology that we can sort of like reprogram our hardware,

00:48:00.000 you know, with our software, which is like we're the only species that can really do that.

00:48:05.000 That we can literally change.

00:48:07.000 Through meditation.

00:48:08.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:48:10.000 Change the way your brain interacts with your body.

00:48:12.000 And then it changes the health of the body.

00:48:15.000 You literally change your body.

00:48:16.000 So what did you do to do that?

00:48:18.000 Like what methods?

00:48:20.000 So I was very reluctant to meditate.

00:48:22.000 I was an atheist my whole, like a belligerent, you know, sort of like Dawkins level atheist my whole life because I was a science worshiper.

00:48:32.000 And I was like, well, you know, spirituality and religion is for like weak people who like need to believe in some fairy tale to make them feel better about that. 0.96

00:48:41.000 Typical New Yorker.

00:48:42.000 New York liberal coming at you.

00:48:45.000 New York liberal scientist.

00:48:47.000 Exactly.

00:48:48.000 Well, it's scientism, right?

00:48:49.000 It literally is the church of science.

00:48:52.000 And so, you know, when I had this crisis of faith, so to speak, like, I was lost for a long time because...

00:49:00.000 Science had sort of, you know, or what I believed had sort of failed me in some ways.

00:49:04.000 And then I didn't have, I don't know what, the readiness to start meditating or find out what, you know, people were talking about when it came to spirituality.

00:49:14.000 Although I followed the literature.

00:49:16.000 So like I read the literature on meditation and epigenetic expression for years and years and years.

00:49:20.000 And I used to tell my patients to do it.

00:49:22.000 But you didn't do it.

00:49:23.000 But I didn't do it.

00:49:24.000 Huh.

00:49:24.000 What held you back?

00:49:26.000 Because I liked feeling stressed out.

00:49:30.000 That's so honest.

00:49:31.000 When you don't do something, you're not doing it because you like actually being sick.

00:49:34.000 You like how you're feeling.

00:49:36.000 You're invested in it.

00:49:37.000 Is it that you like or that you're addicted to the weirdness with it?

00:49:40.000 It's comfortable.

00:49:41.000 And the unknown.

00:49:43.000 For some of my patients, the meditation piece is the last part because they know it's going to be the game changer.

00:49:47.000 And they're not ready for everything to just be totally reconfigured.

00:49:50.000 They're not ready for that level of transformation.

00:49:52.000 Isn't that what they say, too, about sometimes people that are addicted to cigarettes?

00:49:56.000 That you're almost addicted to the idea that you're doing something bad to yourself?

00:50:00.000 You're addicted to that rush of, I'm being naughty.

00:50:02.000 Yeah.

00:50:03.000 Oh, so good.

00:50:04.000 Totally.

00:50:05.000 Oh, so good.

00:50:06.000 It confirms something.

00:50:08.000 Yeah.

00:50:08.000 Some, like, self-loathing.

00:50:09.000 It gets you off the hook, too. 1.00

00:50:10.000 Because you're like, fuck it, I'm alive. 1.00

00:50:12.000 Who gives a shit? 1.00

00:50:13.000 This is all bullshit. 1.00

00:50:14.000 I'm not the future. 1.00

00:50:15.000 Fuck the future. 1.00

00:50:16.000 Nihilist. 1.00

00:50:16.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:50:17.000 Total nihilist. 1.00

00:50:18.000 So many fucking smart people smoke cigarettes. 1.00

00:50:21.000 And it's so confusing. 1.00

00:50:22.000 It's like you're making a deal to slowly pay to poison yourself.

00:50:27.000 You're throwing a little bit of money in the pot every month, guaranteeing that 20 years down the line, 30 years down the line, however long it takes, you're going to have some bolt is going to come off the machinery. 0.66

00:50:39.000 And hey, Mike, you got a tumor in your lungs.

00:50:42.000 This is not good. 0.97

00:50:43.000 We're going to have to cut one of these things out of your chest. 0.99

00:50:46.000 You can get by on one lung, buddy. 0.98

00:50:48.000 This is what we've got to do, though.

00:50:49.000 You've got to start eating papayas.

00:50:51.000 Like, what?

00:50:52.000 Papayas.

00:50:52.000 Start thinking, why am I even alive?

00:50:54.000 But we all do stuff like that.

00:50:55.000 I mean, it's not always as obvious.

00:50:57.000 Not so extreme, but we recognize, right?

00:50:58.000 Yeah, we do.

00:50:59.000 Because we're invested in reflecting a felt wrongness, I would call it.

00:51:07.000 A felt wrongness.

00:51:08.000 Like, we feel deep inside something is wrong.

00:51:11.000 Wrong with us, wrong with society.

00:51:12.000 Right.

00:51:13.000 Something's missing.

00:51:14.000 And then we don't want to pretend that everything is okay, so we self-medicate, you know, whether with, you know, drugs or cigarettes or, you know, workaholism or, you know, sex addiction.

00:51:26.000 We're all sort of in this place not wanting to acknowledge that there's a reason.

00:51:29.000 You know, like, one of my favorite quotes is this, like, Krishnamurti quote that it's no measure of health to be well adapted to a profoundly sick society.

00:51:37.000 Yeah.

00:51:40.000 I love New York.

00:51:42.000 It's the best.

00:51:43.000 I love the traffic. 1.00

00:51:46.000 You're like, oh, you're a sick person, man. 1.00

00:51:47.000 Something is wrong with you. 1.00

00:51:49.000 Totally.

00:51:50.000 I love it.

00:51:50.000 Honk, honk.

00:51:51.000 Yes, I'm home.

00:51:53.000 Yeah, that's a weird...

00:51:54.000 One of my very, very best friends is just addicted to New York.

00:51:59.000 He loves it.

00:52:00.000 He's been there forever.

00:52:01.000 He loves it.

00:52:01.000 It's like an abusive relationship.

00:52:02.000 Loves the city.

00:52:03.000 Totally.

00:52:04.000 But he loves the energy.

00:52:05.000 He likes all the cars and traffic.

00:52:08.000 I don't know what it is, but he's healthy fairly.

00:52:13.000 Physically, he's got a few issues, but mentally, he's very healthy.

00:52:16.000 Well, that's unusual to have just one thing sorted out.

00:52:19.000 He's a smart guy.

00:52:20.000 The other thing is problematic.

00:52:21.000 He just loves the...

00:52:23.000 I don't know what it is.

00:52:24.000 Honk, honk.

00:52:25.000 You know?

00:52:26.000 That's the thing, though.

00:52:27.000 Like, if you think about what the messaging is from the top down we were talking about, right?

00:52:32.000 Like, the messaging is keep it together, punch the clock on Monday, like, you know, sort it out.

00:52:41.000 Right.

00:52:42.000 And you're supposed to be, like, fine.

00:52:45.000 Be fine.

00:52:46.000 Yeah.

00:52:46.000 Right?

00:52:47.000 But many of us don't feel fine.

00:52:50.000 Like range, a huge range of not fineness.

00:52:53.000 That's what I'm saying when I say like a felt wrongness.

00:52:56.000 And that's actually healthy, you know, to sense that.

00:53:00.000 And a lot of artists, I would say, are the canaries in the coal mine, so to speak.

00:53:04.000 Like they're the ones who feel, you know, the collective wound, you know, if you want to call it that, more than we do.

00:53:11.000 They're sensitive in ways.

00:53:12.000 Well, I don't want to put you in my category here.

00:53:14.000 You're more of an artist than I am.

00:53:16.000 I'm not an artist, so I sort of...

00:53:18.000 Do you think of yourself as an artist?

00:53:19.000 No, no, definitely not.

00:53:21.000 No?

00:53:21.000 No, it's interesting, actually, because most of my patients are.

00:53:24.000 Really?

00:53:25.000 Or they become, after I get them off meds, yeah.

00:53:27.000 Whoa! 0.71

00:53:28.000 Wait a minute.

00:53:29.000 Yeah.

00:53:29.000 So they weren't artists, you get them off meds, and all of a sudden they start, like, composing music or something, or making paintings, or...

00:53:35.000 Exactly.

00:53:36.000 They find some repressed expression, something like that, you know.

00:53:40.000 But if you also look at, you know, like I just wrote an article recently that tied in Chris Cornell and his...

00:53:47.000 Yeah, that one hurts.

00:53:48.000 I know.

00:53:50.000 I know.

00:53:50.000 That one bothered me.

00:53:52.000 I know.

00:53:53.000 And it's not an isolated...

00:53:55.000 I mean, listen, I don't know the details.

00:53:56.000 I don't know what happened, but I certainly smell her at.

00:53:59.000 Let's just say what his wife believes.

00:54:01.000 She believes he took too many of his antidepressants or anti-anxiety medications.

00:54:07.000 But wasn't there some rumor about him having a relapse?

00:54:13.000 Was there a rumor?

00:54:14.000 Yes.

00:54:15.000 Rumor that there was like track marks, fresh track marks.

00:54:19.000 See if you find anything on that.

00:54:20.000 How the hell would anybody know that? 0.99

00:54:21.000 That seems like some shit that people just start making up. 0.99

00:54:24.000 And listen, and I could be accused of doing the same thing, even commenting. 0.99

00:54:27.000 But his wife, who is married to him, was the one that said that she believed, like when she talked to him on the phone, that he had taken too much of his anti-anxiety medication.

00:54:35.000 Right.

00:54:35.000 And it'd be one thing to just be like, oh, she's like a grieving widow if there wasn't like a very indicting body of evidence that unequivocally, like literally two new studies just came out this week, that unequivocally, Implicate benzodiazepines in homicide and suicide.

00:54:52.000 A very important Finnish study demonstrated that benzodiazepines led to a 223% increase risk of committing homicide.

00:55:02.000 Jesus Christ!

00:55:05.000 Along with antidepressants and actually other psychotropics, including stimulants, What's a Germanwings? 0.62

00:55:31.000 Mass murder, menace to society kind of situations.

00:55:36.000 My first thought is what psych meds were they on?

00:55:39.000 And my training...

00:55:42.000 Basically conditioned me to say, oh, well, they're mentally ill, so obviously they're taking psych meds.

00:55:48.000 That's like saying umbrellas cause the rain, right? 0.88

00:55:51.000 That's not how it works.

00:55:52.000 Causation, correlation.

00:55:54.000 Exactly.

00:55:54.000 But actually, there's a massive suppressed body of literature that implicates these medications, all of them.

00:56:02.000 And we know why we think, right?

00:56:05.000 So we think that it has to do with the way you metabolize, some people metabolize these medications.

00:56:12.000 So you might be born with a genetic variant in your liver that makes it so that you, by design, metabolize medications differently than someone else, right?

00:56:22.000 So you can enter into a state of what's called auto-intoxication, right?

00:56:26.000 More easily than someone else, even sometimes in a couple of doses.

00:56:30.000 And you develop what's called akathisia-induced impulsivity, which is like, akathisia is like this feeling like you just want to crawl out of your skin, but you seem really chill.

00:56:42.000 It's like a really creepy horror movie level side effect. 0.86

00:56:46.000 So no one around you knows that you're about to fucking boil over and explode. 0.98

00:56:51.000 Exactly right. 0.99

00:56:51.000 I spoke in July in London. 0.99

00:56:54.000 I did this workshop.

00:56:56.000 And this guy contacted me named David Carmichael.

00:56:59.000 And he's like, I'd love to meet you.

00:57:01.000 I followed your work.

00:57:02.000 And I want to sort of tell you about my story.

00:57:05.000 I had known about this paper of which he was one of 10 or 11 subjects by these authors, Lucere and Crotty.

00:57:14.000 It was from 2011. Older paper.

00:57:16.000 Where they took all these people who had committed like heinous acts, right?

00:57:20.000 Like, you know, murdered their therapist or killed their child or themselves jumped in front of a train or whatever.

00:57:26.000 And they were prescribed antidepressants for totally run-of-the-mill stress, right?

00:57:32.000 So like work stress or a dog dying, not because they had like severe mental illness and were suicidal, right?

00:57:39.000 These people were not suicidal.

00:57:41.000 They were not homicidal.

00:57:42.000 They were normal citizens.

00:57:44.000 And they went on to do this crazy thing.

00:57:47.000 And what they found was when they analyzed each of these, you know, victims, perpetrators, however you want to look at it, they found they all had these liver variants that I'm talking about so that they were basically poisoned by medication.

00:58:00.000 But before they were poisoned, they were put into this altered state where they did impulsively violent things.

00:58:08.000 So this guy basically gets on the stage where I was speaking.

00:58:12.000 And he talks about how he was prescribed Paxil because he worked, I think, as an accountant.

00:58:19.000 And he was prescribed it for work-related stress.

00:58:21.000 It was just taking on too much stress at work, right?

00:58:24.000 And he remembers feeling like...

00:58:30.000 I think?

00:58:49.000 This is before or after you met him?

00:58:51.000 After.

00:58:52.000 This was actually years ago.

00:58:53.000 And he was not jailed.

00:58:55.000 So you met him and he was telling you about all this and then after that he killed his kid?

00:58:59.000 No.

00:58:59.000 He killed his son before we met.

00:59:01.000 Years ago.

00:59:02.000 But he wanted to share with the audience of doctors I was speaking to.

00:59:09.000 So they exonerated him based on this medication?

00:59:11.000 They did, which is rare, actually, believe it or not, because a lot of times these people are jailed.

00:59:15.000 So it's like, you know...

00:59:18.000 Punishing the victim, so to speak.

00:59:20.000 But that's sort of the issue that it's an important issue, right?

00:59:25.000 Because your friend, right?

00:59:27.000 Okay, so let's say some people, this is in line with their consciousness to not have any curiosity about why they're having symptoms, not want to see what they can do in terms of optimizing their lifestyle.

00:59:38.000 It's just like not their deal, right?

00:59:40.000 So they want to take a medication and they want to suppress their symptoms and just like hope it works out.

00:59:45.000 Right.

00:59:47.000 Right.

00:59:49.000 Right.

01:00:00.000 You know, it's Russian roulette.

01:00:02.000 We don't have a good way of identifying if you're going to be David Carmichael.

01:00:06.000 Right.

01:00:07.000 So, and it's, you know, it's one thing to kill yourself impulsively, but like, you know, the school shootings, for example, have, without an exception, been committed by people who are kids who are recently medicated.

01:00:24.000 So, is this a public health issue?

01:00:26.000 It's either on psych meds or coming off psych meds, right?

01:00:28.000 Exactly.

01:00:28.000 It's almost 100%.

01:00:30.000 Yes, if not 100%.

01:00:32.000 It is really crazy that that's denied.

01:00:34.000 And when you bring that up, by the way, people call you a gun rights apologist.

01:00:37.000 Well, you're distorting the issue.

01:00:40.000 You're turning it to a psych meds issue when it's a gun issue.

01:00:43.000 If these people don't have guns, they can't commit these crimes.

01:00:46.000 That, to me, is a very bizarre way of looking at one clear...

01:00:52.000 But it's what you were talking about before, where psychiatrists aren't talking about this.

01:00:57.000 This is such a taboo subject that by the time it gets to the average educated and informed person, who for the most part is probably liberal, because we're talking about people that want to get rid of guns,

01:01:12.000 what they're seeing is only the gun.

01:01:15.000 They're not seeing the mindset behind the ability to do something like that.

01:01:19.000 The very relevant context, yeah.

01:01:22.000 Is this testable?

01:01:24.000 It is, actually.

01:01:25.000 And nobody tests for it.

01:01:27.000 Like, literally, apart from functional medicine doctors, perhaps, but for the most part, they're not going to be the ones starting patients on psychiatric meds.

01:01:34.000 Most psych meds are started by primary care doctors after a 10-minute appointment.

01:01:38.000 And there's a scientific consensus that this issue exists, that with this liver issue, that if you take these medications, it can...

01:01:53.000 It's called akathisia-induced impulsivity.

01:01:57.000 Akathisia is the experience, the symptom, neurologic symptom that's induced by I think? 0.65

01:02:31.000 Yeah, that's the thing that people that I know that have taken them have said, that the doctor will tell you, hey, this is going to work for a little while, and then it's not going to work anymore.

01:02:39.000 I just hope you don't shoot up a school in the meantime.

01:02:41.000 Well, my friend who got on them, and actually, I have two friends that got a great benefit from getting on SSRIs.

01:02:48.000 They had a great benefit, and they both eventually got off of them.

01:02:52.000 They got on them, and then their life improved.

01:02:55.000 They improved the overall existence that they experienced.

01:03:01.000 They improved their job.

01:03:02.000 They improved their status in life, relationship stuff.

01:03:07.000 All these different things improved.

01:03:08.000 And then they slowly weaned themselves off, and now they don't need them anymore.

01:03:11.000 But both of my friends that were on them say that it was a great benefit of them to get on them.

01:03:18.000 So, that's a rare story, I would say.

01:03:20.000 It's a pretty rare story.

01:03:21.000 Now, you could argue that I have a skewed exposure to the population because I only see the people who've been on 10, 20 years and want to desperately get off and can't, you know.

01:03:29.000 But I am, again, this public health issue aside, which is that, you know, these medications could be inducing...

01:03:41.000 Right.

01:03:43.000 Right?

01:03:43.000 That issue aside, I'm, you know, a crusader for informed consent.

01:03:48.000 I believe that you just should know all the options and all of the available science, and then you make your own damn decision, right?

01:03:56.000 With your free will, you do what's right for you, what matches your level of consciousness, right?

01:04:03.000 The problem is that most people are not taken off of meds and they are maintained for long term, even though all of the long term science suggests that people do worse long term on all categories of psychiatric meds than if they were never medicated.

01:04:21.000 And this includes antipsychotics for schizophrenia.

01:04:24.000 All of them.

01:04:25.000 And the person who exposed this and really, you know, sort of blew the whistle on this issue, his book changed my life and made me put down my prescription pad, is Robert Whitaker, who's an investigative journalist, and he wrote a book called Anatomy of an Epidemic.

01:04:38.000 And I read it, you know, and it came out, and I was ready to read it and receive it because I just had this health experience of my own, right?

01:04:47.000 So I read it, and basically what he says is, okay, so we have...

01:04:51.000 Right.

01:05:18.000 It goes through all of these studies.

01:05:20.000 I never heard about one of them in my Ivy League training.

01:05:24.000 All of these studies that are not industry funded, right?

01:05:27.000 Because we know that the pharmaceutical industry is four times more likely to publish something when it's positive than when it's not.

01:05:34.000 And they can publish whatever they want and not publish whatever they don't want, right?

01:05:37.000 So they are in charge of their own policing, which is the fox guarding the hen house kind of a situation.

01:05:45.000 So these were all non-industry funded studies.

01:05:48.000 And the story they tell is quite different than what you might imagine.

01:05:52.000 And it's like almost shocking, right?

01:05:54.000 That you have schizophrenia, right?

01:05:57.000 Obviously, you need to take meds, right?

01:05:59.000 Right.

01:05:59.000 But what if like doing something is not as good as doing nothing, according to the published literature, right?

01:06:05.000 Right.

01:06:05.000 So doing nothing is better, according to the published literature, than doing something.

01:06:10.000 Than doing medication.

01:06:11.000 So taking medication for some sort of a psychotic disorder, what are the odds that it's going to work?

01:06:18.000 So when we're looking at the data that suggests that it's effective to take an antipsychotic, they're, without exception, short-term studies.

01:06:27.000 So six to eight weeks.

01:06:29.000 But people are taking these medications for months to years.

01:06:33.000 And they lose their efficiency over time or their effectiveness over time?

01:06:36.000 They have sedating effects usually up front.

01:06:38.000 But it's not the same as SSRIs in terms of the efficiency? 0.59

01:06:42.000 The story is similar because if we look at outcomes in the long term, like do you have a job?

01:06:50.000 Do you have a friend network?

01:06:52.000 Are you a functional member of society?

01:06:54.000 If we look at those parameters in the long term, people do worse.

01:06:59.000 And his argument is that that's why we have more and more of the population literally getting checks from the government because they cannot function in society even though they're medicated to the hilt.

01:07:10.000 You know, like they're fully treated, so to speak.

01:07:13.000 And he makes this argument for benzodiazepines, for stimulants.

01:07:16.000 And if you look into the literature, you understand that all that's happening is you're forcing an adaptation on the part of the body.

01:07:24.000 This is a chemical.

01:07:25.000 It is not fixing anything.

01:07:27.000 And just like alcohol, okay, like some people love alcohol.

01:07:32.000 For some people, it's very relaxing, right?

01:07:35.000 Some people hate it and it's terrible and it makes them sick.

01:07:38.000 So just like any other chemical substance with unpredictably psychoactive effects, it may be adaptive for a given period of time.

01:07:48.000 But we know through the alcohol analogy that there's no free lunch, right?

01:07:52.000 So even if it's adaptive in the short term, your body adapts, habituates, you become potentially dependent, although that's a more complex conversation.

01:08:00.000 You know, what drives that dependency?

01:08:04.000 The long term is known to us.

01:08:06.000 The long term picture of chronic use of alcohol for, let's say, social anxiety doesn't look pretty if you want to just stop drinking 15 years down the line after you've been drinking every day.

01:08:15.000 But we've been told to think of psych meds differently.

01:08:18.000 And what I'm trying to say is we shouldn't be.

01:08:21.000 Because they are just chemicals having chemical effects that your body is adapting to.

01:08:26.000 So obviously that chemical effect is not going to endure, right?

01:08:29.000 Like it's not going to last.

01:08:30.000 And then there's going to be a cost.

01:08:32.000 So one of the major pieces of informed consent I would like to see foregrounded for people is it may be nearly physically impossible for you to come off of this medication Jesus.

01:09:07.000 We're not taking the glass out.

01:09:08.000 We're just like putting a Band-Aid on it, giving you a Tylenol and being like, okay, get out of here.

01:09:13.000 You know, so we're not fixing the problem, so to speak.

01:09:16.000 So we're masking it.

01:09:18.000 And there's going to be, you know, sort of, it's going to, it's like a whack-a-mole.

01:09:23.000 Like, is this going to keep manifesting in other places?

01:09:26.000 So people are kept on these meds long-term, and then coming off them is...

01:09:30.000 I've come to the conclusion that they're more habit-forming than any chemicals on the planet.

01:09:35.000 Crack, OxyContin, nothing.

01:09:37.000 They do not hold a candle to how hard it can be to come off of psych meds.

01:09:42.000 Jesus Christ.

01:09:43.000 All you need to do is ask them.

01:09:43.000 So your friends are very rare examples, because there are millions of people on the internet right now trying to help each other.

01:09:51.000 Survive the process of coming, physically survive, let alone, you know, psycho-spiritually, survive the process of coming off of meds.

01:09:59.000 So that's what I focus on, you know, in my day-to-day practice now.

01:10:02.000 Now, are there certain meds that are more difficult to come off than others?

01:10:07.000 I would say yes, although I've seen exceptions to that, too.

01:10:11.000 You know, I would say that there are certain antidepressants that are notoriously challenging, you know, meds like Paxil or Effexor.

01:10:19.000 But then Prozac, which is supposed to be like, have this long half-life and be easy to come off of.

01:10:23.000 I have patients who develop what looks like AIDS. Like, they get so sick in such complicated ways that no one believes them.

01:10:33.000 And then they think that they're, you know, well, you must have MS or you must have, you know, mono or you must have, you know, some new diagnosis.

01:10:40.000 And the literature since 2014 has told us, no, this is a withdrawal.

01:10:44.000 This is a complicated, protracted withdrawal that is worse than any other withdrawal.

01:10:50.000 Meds out there.

01:10:51.000 And so if you knew that, you might be like, all right, well, what are my other options?

01:10:55.000 Do I have other options?

01:10:57.000 And since I put down my prescription, I have many years now of experience of treating all manner of bipolar disorder, suicidality, psychosis, without medication.

01:11:07.000 And let me tell you, the outcomes that I get today, I couldn't have I fantasized about when I was prescribing.

01:11:13.000 I didn't even know that this was possible.

01:11:15.000 So if you know that these outcomes are possible, then maybe you would consider a lifestyle approach But you have to know it's possible.

01:11:24.000 So that's informed consent.

01:11:25.000 What was best case scenario when you were prescribing?

01:11:27.000 And did it ever feel like, I mean, did it ever get to the point where you were wondering, like, none of these people are really getting better?

01:11:38.000 They're improving in certain ways, but they're not getting better?

01:11:42.000 You don't have the goal of getting them totally better.

01:11:45.000 What was your goal?

01:11:47.000 Management.

01:11:47.000 That's it.

01:11:48.000 Management of symptoms.

01:11:49.000 So the idea is you have an issue.

01:11:51.000 This issue is never going away. 0.99

01:11:52.000 Let's just throw a wet blanket on this sucker and see if we could hold down the fire. 1.00

01:11:57.000 Exactly. 0.99

01:11:57.000 And you know what? 0.99

01:11:58.000 I have a lot of compassion.

01:11:59.000 Many of my friends are conventional psychiatrists, so I have compassion for people who are in the trenches practicing conventional approaches because I thought I was doing good, you know, when I was prescribing.

01:12:09.000 I thought I was doing good things for these people.

01:12:12.000 These friends, how do they feel about what you're doing now?

01:12:16.000 They sort of like tolerate me.

01:12:18.000 I don't know.

01:12:19.000 That's it?

01:12:19.000 Well, it's funny because I have this, I don't know what you want to call it, like scientific advantage, meaning like I know more of the literature.

01:12:27.000 I've read more of it.

01:12:28.000 I've obsessively devoted my life to this subject. 0.99

01:12:31.000 They know sort of not to fuck with me on some level. 0.96

01:12:35.000 So I have respect, but they also, it's like my thing that I do over here. 0.99

01:12:40.000 Right.

01:12:41.000 Look, Kelly, we have a business.

01:12:43.000 Right. 0.63

01:12:43.000 My business is giving pills to crazy people. 0.63

01:12:46.000 Fuck out of my office. 1.00

01:12:47.000 Leave me alone. 1.00

01:12:47.000 Yeah, exactly. 1.00

01:12:48.000 I share an office with one of my best friends.

01:12:51.000 Do you really?

01:12:51.000 He rents from my office, you know, with all the Buddhas everywhere.

01:12:57.000 I mean, he's more conscious about it than that.

01:12:59.000 Actually, he works in forensics, which means that he works to sort of identify where people in the legal system are being medicated necessarily or unnecessarily.

01:13:09.000 Oh, God.

01:13:10.000 Yeah, there's all sorts of weird specializations within...

01:13:12.000 The guild of psychiatry, it's like a many tentacled animal.

01:13:16.000 So when you say management, did you ever take someone from being a real mess and bring them off the ledge and then their life improved?

01:13:26.000 Yes.

01:13:27.000 That's the good summary of what I do today.

01:13:30.000 So I see the sickest people that no one can help because they've gotten to the end of the road.

01:13:35.000 So they've done electroconvulsive therapy.

01:13:37.000 They're on six medications.

01:13:38.000 They've been hospitalized even in state facilities.

01:13:41.000 They're, you know, at the end of their rope because they're not well.

01:13:45.000 And even conventional psychiatry has nothing left to offer them.

01:13:48.000 So I, you know, people think like, oh, I treat the worried well, like some Upper East Side, you know, woman who's having an affair and she's stressed out or They call it the worried well?

01:13:57.000 The worried well, yeah.

01:13:58.000 But it's not, you know, it's not true.

01:14:00.000 Like, my patients are very sick.

01:14:03.000 And, you know, I have an online version of what I do in the office.

01:14:08.000 And the outcomes there are even wilder than the ones in my office.

01:14:12.000 So you can even do this totally on your own.

01:14:14.000 It's not like some voodoo I'm working on Madison Avenue in New York.

01:14:18.000 But for example, I've started to video interview these people as social proof.

01:14:24.000 It's all on my website and you can see what they have to say about it.

01:14:27.000 Because why would you believe me?

01:14:28.000 Because it sounds crazy what I'm saying.

01:14:31.000 So what do you do then?

01:14:32.000 Say I come to you and I say, hey, I've got real problems.

01:14:36.000 I'm depressed all the time.

01:14:37.000 Super bummed out.

01:14:39.000 Can't keep it together.

01:14:39.000 99 problems.

01:14:43.000 This, I'll tell you about a woman, Allie. 1.00

01:14:46.000 Okay.

01:14:47.000 Don't give her a real name.

01:14:48.000 No, she's on my website. 0.99

01:14:50.000 Damn. 0.99

01:14:50.000 In a video. 0.99

01:14:51.000 Yeah.

01:14:52.000 She is an intrepid woman. 1.00

01:14:55.000 She's incredible.

01:14:55.000 She's a beloved.

01:14:57.000 I've never said that about a person.

01:14:59.000 They're intrepid.

01:15:00.000 She is.

01:15:01.000 I believe you.

01:15:02.000 That's the point I'm ultimately going to make, is that this process of moving through the fire of your mental illness, which I don't believe in mental illness, but moving through the fire...

01:15:14.000 I don't.

01:15:15.000 What do you believe?

01:15:16.000 I believe that we are, by design as humans, you know, that we feel things intensely.

01:15:23.000 And some people have experiences, you know, like in other cultural settings, some of the early experiences as what we would label schizophrenic, you know, there is an elder that is assigned to you to shepherd you through your psychospiritual emergence.

01:15:37.000 You know, we just don't have a cultural context for anything other than full and total complacency, full and total adaptation to this sick society, right?

01:15:46.000 Right, but regardless of environmental influences and whatever genetic problems you might have, people can have something really wrong with their mind, right?

01:15:57.000 I don't ever think it's really wrong.

01:15:59.000 When it gets really wrong is under the influence of psych meds.

01:16:02.000 Always?

01:16:03.000 There are very few exceptions.

01:16:05.000 If someone's experiencing psychotic breaks and they don't get put on psych medication, Does it go away?

01:16:11.000 Well, that's the long-term data I was describing for you.

01:16:14.000 It does.

01:16:15.000 It does.

01:16:15.000 So we have turned what might have been a single-episode experience that, when properly supported, totally, completely resolves and you get back to life, which is what used to happen even in the early 1900s.

01:16:28.000 You know, when we documented the natural history, so to speak, of these illnesses, we would see that they would go away on their own within a year.

01:16:36.000 You know, 80% of the time.

01:16:37.000 So when they would come up out of nowhere, they would go away out of nowhere as well.

01:16:41.000 Right.

01:16:41.000 Huh.

01:16:41.000 And we've turned them into chronic processes.

01:16:45.000 How many people are you talking about?

01:16:45.000 Sorry to interrupt you, but how big is this study?

01:16:48.000 Like how many people are being...

01:16:49.000 There are many, many.

01:16:49.000 And this is where Whitaker is like, you know, my knight in shining armor.

01:16:53.000 Robert Whitaker, because he's cataloged all of this data.

01:16:56.000 There's a robust amount of data.

01:16:58.000 And importantly, it wasn't paid for by the industry.

01:17:01.000 So that's an important bias to control for, right?

01:17:05.000 Right.

01:17:05.000 So if someone comes to you and they're psychotic...

01:17:08.000 So that's what I'm going to tell you about Allie, right?

01:17:10.000 Okay.

01:17:10.000 And her video is on my website.

01:17:12.000 This is all, you know, fully with her consent that I share it.

01:17:16.000 And she came to me end of her rope. 0.80

01:17:18.000 She came with her husband from Kansas to my office, and she was...

01:17:25.000 What are her episodes?

01:17:52.000 I think?

01:18:16.000 I told her, this is how it's going to go. 0.99

01:18:19.000 So I have a very heavy hand up front, and I can be a hard ass for sure. 0.94

01:18:25.000 But it's in service of passing the baton to these women, because I don't have long-term patience. 1.00

01:18:31.000 There's an intense window, and then they...

01:18:33.000 They're done with me, right?

01:18:35.000 Once they're through the birth canal, so to speak, right?

01:18:38.000 So what I asked her to do was follow a very strict diet. 0.99

01:18:42.000 No cheating.

01:18:43.000 None. 0.99

01:18:43.000 Like, zero bullshit. 0.99

01:18:45.000 Okay? 0.99

01:18:46.000 So what's the diet?

01:18:47.000 Okay.

01:18:48.000 So the template for the diet that I recommend is based not only on, like, my personal experience, but also on my work with my mentor, Dr. Nicholas Gonzalez, who was the most badass figure in modern medicine.

01:19:02.000 He passed suddenly in 2015. But he, for 27 years, treated terminal cancer, you know, metastatic, like, no-hope cancer, literally, neurodegenerative illnesses, Lyme disease, you know, diabetes, all with 100% We're good to go.

01:19:49.000 And it seems totally crazy and weird, but you do it all yourself.

01:19:52.000 You don't go somewhere to do it.

01:19:53.000 It's not like that.

01:19:55.000 And you're hitting this, like, it's called a flexure.

01:19:58.000 You're hitting this point right here where your intestines come across and then down, okay?

01:20:03.000 And right there is a nerve bundle that reflexes to your, it's called a parasympathetic nerve bundle.

01:20:10.000 It reflexes to your liver, and it basically helps your liver to dump It's like a supercharging of your liver's ability to detox you.

01:20:21.000 By putting coffee in there?

01:20:23.000 Because the caffeine stimulates that nerve bundle.

01:20:26.000 It's basically like jacking up your liver.

01:20:28.000 Because we don't know how to detox better than our own body does.

01:20:31.000 Your liver is charged with that responsibility.

01:20:33.000 So if you can help your liver do it, it's going to be best.

01:20:38.000 And this is most relevant in cancer, like radical cancer treatments, because when the tumors are breaking down, We're good to go.

01:21:10.000 Now takes me like six months with a given patient.

01:21:13.000 So Ali started doing coffee enemas twice a day.

01:21:18.000 But the dietary template is a little bit...

01:21:22.000 I wouldn't say it's like totally...

01:21:27.000 People think healthy, right?

01:21:28.000 And they think like vegan or they think vegetarian or they think, you know, tons of green juice or whatever.

01:21:33.000 And I noticed early on that as long as my patients ate a fair amount of red meat, they got better.

01:21:38.000 And I used to be like an ethical vegetarian when I was eating like cheese doodles and Pepsi, basically.

01:21:44.000 And so it was very confusing to me that, you know, red meat could be a healthy part of anyone's lifestyle or, you know, anything I could ever wrap my mind around recommending.

01:21:55.000 But...

01:21:55.000 Over the past 10 years and now with the understanding of Nick's Metric, you know, where there are some people who do require red meat to balance their nervous system, essentially.

01:22:07.000 Now, is this an actual requirement, or can this be mitigated through, like, a very smart and conscious vegetarian diet?

01:22:16.000 Like, if you're really careful about your nutrients and making sure that you get the essential fatty acids, making sure you get the essential amino acids and a really balanced profile of vegetable protein?

01:22:27.000 It's a great question.

01:22:29.000 Ultimately, my goal in this month is to clear the slate of all the stuff that's yanking on your brain and your immune system and driving inflammation so that you can begin to sense what you need.

01:22:42.000 Have you ever had anybody that attempted to do it with, say, hemp protein or pea protein or vegetable-based proteins?

01:22:47.000 At this point, I'm going for gold.

01:22:49.000 I'm interested in massive transformation for people, not just like, oh, I guess I feel a little better.

01:22:56.000 I won't even see a new patient if they're not willing.

01:23:06.000 Yes, this is just my clinical practice.

01:23:14.000 No, but I wouldn't.

01:23:17.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:23:18.000 But I do have this online program where there are people who get well and they stick to a vegetarian diet.

01:23:25.000 So it's apparently possible.

01:23:27.000 Well, a vegetarian, at least you can get eggs.

01:23:30.000 Right.

01:23:31.000 In his model, there were no vegan diets.

01:23:34.000 And it's based on the work of Weston Price.

01:23:37.000 You know who he is, Weston Price?

01:23:38.000 I've heard the name.

01:23:39.000 Yeah, he was like a dentist in the 1900s who like went around the world with his wife and studied all of these different people who, like indigenous people all over, like Eskimos, like Himalayan, you know.

01:23:51.000 Folks, Mexican folks and South American, and studied the healthy indigenous populations that were not eating industrialized food, right? 0.62

01:24:00.000 And what he found was they all ate different stuff.

01:24:03.000 So there isn't like a diet, right?

01:24:06.000 So how do you know what is your version, right?

01:24:09.000 So like an Eskimo doesn't eat coconuts and like a Maasai warrior doesn't eat whale blubber.

01:24:14.000 So like, how do you know...

01:24:15.000 What's your version?

01:24:17.000 The truth is only you know.

01:24:19.000 But our signals are so distorted and suppressed that we can't figure it out.

01:24:23.000 Right.

01:24:24.000 But you'll begin to lower the white noise enough if you have this month-long experience of detox.

01:24:31.000 So I asked for daily meditation three minutes.

01:24:36.000 I told you I'm a kundalini zealot, so I asked for people to do... 0.99

01:24:39.000 You told me that before the podcast.

01:24:41.000 Yeah, yeah, okay.

01:24:42.000 They didn't hear me.

01:24:42.000 But it's okay.

01:24:43.000 Yeah.

01:24:43.000 So I came to kundalini yoga basically out of sheer desperation at a very difficult time in my life, largely after my mentor died.

01:24:52.000 And it totally changed my, like, rewired my nervous system, literally.

01:24:57.000 Literally.

01:24:58.000 Where now nothing stresses me out.

01:25:00.000 But if you have someone, I mean, I'm obviously not a vegan, but if you have someone that comes to you that does not want to eat meat, but wants to try this out, and wants to try this out with, I mean, it's really just the science of nutrition.

01:25:15.000 I mean, you can eat a vegan diet and be healthy, as long as you do it right, can't you?

01:25:20.000 Well, so his model is that there are different kinds of people and different kinds of people, and I can explain a little more, require, require for their health certain dietary complements and what are called the parasympathetic dominants.

01:25:38.000 Mm-hmm.

01:25:59.000 Right?

01:25:59.000 So many, many, many, many, many former vegetarians converted from vegetarianism because they felt depressed.

01:26:08.000 Right?

01:26:09.000 So while that's true, on the other side of the spectrum are the sympathetic dominants who don't need to eat red meat.

01:26:18.000 And who do really well on like a full force like plants, grains, you know, even a high carb diet and they feel well.

01:26:27.000 And it's when they eat too much red meat, particularly industrial red meat, that they develop solid tumors like, you know, breast cancer, pancreatic cancer, colon cancer.

01:26:36.000 This is a very common, you know.

01:26:37.000 So essentially, when you're dealing with particularly indigenous populations and people that have a very strong gene pool that comes from one very strong area in the world, like Eskimos or like people that live in the Pacific Northwest or something like that...

01:26:52.000 Not Pacific North Wales, but you know what I mean, like Alaskan people.

01:26:56.000 Like there's people that live on like Nunavac and all these different islands that have eaten seal for hundreds and hundreds of years and have very little access to vegetables, right?

01:27:06.000 And meanwhile they have super low instances of cancer.

01:27:10.000 So it's just because their bodies have adapted and evolved.

01:27:14.000 For those requirements.

01:27:15.000 With the environment.

01:27:16.000 Right.

01:27:16.000 Exactly.

01:27:17.000 That's exactly it.

01:27:17.000 But your body, like say if you came from Vietnam, you would have a very different nutritional requirement than that person would.

01:27:23.000 And you will never be fully vital or healthy on the wrong version of the diet.

01:27:29.000 Is this all science or is this anecdotal guesswork?

01:27:32.000 So when it comes to nutrition-based science, there ain't none.

01:27:36.000 There's just none.

01:27:37.000 Because the idea of nutrition research is like taking one nutrient out of the context of the person, out of the context of their life, out of the context of their cultural surroundings.

01:27:47.000 That's how we treat it.

01:27:48.000 We treat it like a pharmaceutical.

01:27:50.000 We look at single nutrient out of a whole complement of information.

01:27:54.000 So we just don't...

01:27:56.000 I tried.

01:27:57.000 Learning about nutrition that way.

01:27:58.000 And I drove myself crazy because I was like, what the hell do I tell my patients to eat?

01:28:01.000 I can't find any science to support this.

01:28:03.000 And that's why I looked for outcomes.

01:28:06.000 So Nick Gonzalez's outcomes are unprecedented in medical history.

01:28:11.000 Literally, like 34-year terminal pancreatic cancer survivor.

01:28:15.000 Do you know how long you have to live when you're diagnosed with pancreatic cancer?

01:28:17.000 Yeah, not that long.

01:28:18.000 Like three to six months.

01:28:19.000 I know a guy's been alive for a few years on it, but...

01:28:22.000 He's actually taking meds.

01:28:25.000 That's very, very unusual.

01:28:27.000 Yeah, I know.

01:28:27.000 It's amazing.

01:28:29.000 He still eats sugar, this fucker. 1.00

01:28:31.000 He's doing his thing. 1.00

01:28:33.000 Eating fucking gummy bears and shit. 1.00

01:28:35.000 Do you know Rob Wolf? 1.00

01:28:36.000 Do you know who Rob Wolf is?

01:28:37.000 Yeah, not personally.

01:28:38.000 I know his work.

01:28:38.000 Rob's a really interesting guy.

01:28:40.000 And one of the things that he does that's kind of fascinating is on his Instagram, he and his wife will do these tests.

01:28:46.000 They'll do carbohydrate absorption tests and ketosis tests.

01:28:53.000 And they'll both eat the same things, but he'll test her and then test him and the results vary widely.

01:28:58.000 Yes.

01:28:59.000 Like, his reaction is, like, he just jokes around about how poor his genetics are and about how robust his wife's genetics are.

01:29:07.000 Apparently, like, nothing can knock her out of ketosis. 0.93

01:29:09.000 She can eat, like, crazy amounts of food, and then, like, a couple hours later, she's, like, back on baseline.

01:29:14.000 That's, yeah.

01:29:14.000 Whereas his bio's all like, ah!

01:29:16.000 Like, his body just goes off the tracks.

01:29:18.000 Yeah, he's weaker. 0.55

01:29:19.000 Totally the weaker sex. 0.94

01:29:19.000 Yeah, so his studies, though, and his little tests, although, you know, they're very small, it's just him and his wife, they're really fascinating to see how two people who are in the exact same household, same environment, you know, one's male, one's female, but also just different genetic and backgrounds, 0.94

01:29:35.000 and how wildly they vary.

01:29:38.000 It's really...

01:29:39.000 So what do you do with that, right?

01:29:41.000 How do you know who you are?

01:29:42.000 That's the end of one medicine, right?

01:29:44.000 So the truth is that you have an intuitive compass, right?

01:29:48.000 Especially with food.

01:29:49.000 You are going to want to eat the diet that is going to make you well.

01:29:53.000 Oh, candy and ice cream.

01:29:54.000 That's what it is.

01:29:55.000 It's intuitive, dude.

01:29:56.000 That's what people think.

01:29:57.000 But the truth is, if you actually take this break and detox, so to speak, from all those addictive foods, and you have this shift in your body, you're not going to want it.

01:30:08.000 Yeah, that's where you're wrong.

01:30:09.000 Because tiramisu, after you have like a nice dinner and you see that on the menu, you're like, come on, roll it out.

01:30:15.000 Let's do this.

01:30:16.000 Get that cream with the cocoa on the top of it.

01:30:20.000 Totally gross.

01:30:20.000 So good.

01:30:21.000 It's gross?

01:30:22.000 I never liked it.

01:30:23.000 Oh, how dare you?

01:30:24.000 I quit coffee like nine years ago and now I can't touch it.

01:30:27.000 What about chocolate ice cream?

01:30:30.000 Is that okay?

01:30:31.000 No.

01:30:32.000 Nothing?

01:30:32.000 Doesn't do anything for you?

01:30:33.000 Well, you're like some sort of an android then.

01:30:35.000 No!

01:30:36.000 Something's wrong with you.

01:30:37.000 I'm eight years into this stuff, so it starts to decondition.

01:30:41.000 And then if you really, really feel like something like that, then you're like, what's up?

01:30:47.000 What am I like...

01:30:48.000 You know what I mean?

01:30:49.000 Trying to eat some ice cream. 1.00

01:30:50.000 That's what the fuck is up. 1.00

01:30:53.000 Shit is good. 1.00

01:30:54.000 You ever had like an ice cream sundae with whipped cream and fudge? 1.00

01:30:58.000 No, do you understand how I used to eat?

01:30:59.000 I grew up in New Jersey, okay?

01:31:01.000 I was born there.

01:31:02.000 I went to Friendly's like on the regular and I got the Happy Ending.

01:31:06.000 Can you believe it was called that?

01:31:07.000 I know.

01:31:07.000 The Happy Ending Sunday.

01:31:09.000 I know.

01:31:10.000 And the fries and the grilled cheese.

01:31:12.000 I used to eat even through my training when I trained at Bellevue in New York.

01:31:17.000 And at the gift store, they used to know me, so they'd have Twizzlers and dark chocolate Milky Way waiting for me every day.

01:31:24.000 Every day!

01:31:25.000 So I was like an addict, you know, by any definition.

01:31:29.000 And you can resolve that, you know?

01:31:32.000 And then you figure out, like, what actually you're meant to eat.

01:31:36.000 Because Nick always said, you will eat the food that you're meant to eat.

01:31:40.000 You'll want it.

01:31:40.000 But you have to sort of get your brain out of the way.

01:31:42.000 So if you have, you know, all of these...

01:31:57.000 Yeah, I'm sorry.

01:32:06.000 Okay, so that's basically what she did, right?

01:32:09.000 She was off all meds except for, as needed, Klonopin when she met me.

01:32:15.000 So she had already done...

01:32:17.000 What does Klonopin do?

01:32:18.000 It's like Ativan, like the one we were talking about with Chris Cornell.

01:32:21.000 It's an anti-anxiety medicine, like Xanax or Valium, if you've heard of those.

01:32:24.000 Yes.

01:32:26.000 It's one of the most challenging to get off of in the long term.

01:32:31.000 And why wouldn't it be long term?

01:32:33.000 That's the confusing part.

01:32:35.000 Why would you just voluntarily stop taking something that makes you feel chilled out when you're feeling anxious, right?

01:32:43.000 But what if your anxiety is because you have unstable blood sugar and you're having this fight or flight explosion every hour and a half?

01:32:50.000 If you're not resolving that, then it's like putting a bandaid on a piece of glass in your foot.

01:32:55.000 It's like, okay, but why don't you just fix it?

01:32:57.000 And then you won't need it.

01:32:58.000 So you make them eat a certain amount of red meat.

01:33:01.000 Do you limit their portions?

01:33:03.000 No, there's no calorie counting.

01:33:05.000 There's no portion, anything.

01:33:06.000 Because you are initiating yourself into the process of determining what's best for you.

01:33:12.000 So the whole point of this month, this military month that I impose on people, is that it's like an initiation to your own.

01:33:21.000 Self.

01:33:22.000 So the stuff you're doing, whether it's the meditation enemas, detoxing your products and stuff like that, basic functional medicine stuff, or the diet, it's all in your control, which is why you can do this without me, which has been the best evidence I've ever...

01:33:37.000 I never even dreamed that was totally possible, and now I'm Super pumped about it because the last thing I want it to be is like about, you know, the Kelly Brogan effect or something like that's not at all what I'm interested in.

01:33:49.000 So yeah, so you do all this yourself.

01:33:51.000 What do you make them eat though, besides red meat?

01:33:52.000 Okay, so basically food.

01:33:55.000 Okay, so you're eating animal food.

01:33:56.000 Just eat food, you'd be fine. 1.00

01:33:58.000 Crazy person. 0.99

01:33:59.000 Literally. 0.95

01:33:59.000 No, but listen, it's because tell me this isn't food. 0.95

01:34:02.000 So it's animal food, including, you know, any kinds of meat, fish, eggs, whole eggs, not just the whites.

01:34:10.000 Any kind of vegetables except for white potatoes.

01:34:13.000 I'll explain why.

01:34:15.000 Any kinds of fruit.

01:34:17.000 Nuts and seeds.

01:34:19.000 Natural salt as much as you want.

01:34:20.000 Tons of filtered water.

01:34:22.000 That's important.

01:34:23.000 And then natural fats.

01:34:25.000 So like ghee, which is like a clarified butter, coconut oil, olive oil, that kind of thing.

01:34:29.000 That's food.

01:34:31.000 By the way, what you're taking out is a little more challenging for some people.

01:34:36.000 This is just for the month.

01:34:39.000 It gets so much easier in the future, but you're taking out all grains, all beans, all dairy.

01:34:47.000 So the ice cream is going.

01:34:48.000 And then all refined sugar, so like honey and maple syrup are fine.

01:34:53.000 And then coffee and alcohol.

01:34:58.000 But listen, if you were really desperate, you might think about this.

01:35:02.000 Oh yeah, for sure.

01:35:03.000 And it can be challenging for the first week, and then you start to see the dividends.

01:35:08.000 And you want to just have one month in your adult life where you just see what's up when you control for these variables.

01:35:14.000 It's worth it.

01:35:15.000 Right.

01:35:15.000 Because then you know what the sort of relationships are between you, your personal, you know, biology, and these, you know, elements of your nutrition.

01:35:24.000 So what's the general reaction when you get someone to get rid of processed sugars, cut out the grains, cut out the nonsense, dairy, and just eat regular healthy food?

01:35:34.000 What's the normal reaction?

01:35:36.000 That sometimes you feel worse.

01:35:38.000 Really?

01:35:39.000 Depending on how much of the stuff you were eating, you can literally go through like a mini withdrawal.

01:35:44.000 Like headache, flu-ish symptoms, fatigue, irritability.

01:35:48.000 They call that like the keto flu when people get off of carbs.

01:35:53.000 Exactly.

01:35:53.000 So that can be real.

01:35:55.000 Coffee too, obviously.

01:35:57.000 Anyone who's ever tried to quit can know.

01:35:59.000 But it's like a couple days and then you move through it.

01:36:00.000 And then what normally starts to happen is you start to like sort of feel the clearing, right?

01:36:05.000 So your energy is better, your sleep is better.

01:36:07.000 One of the most interesting things is how many people tell me that they sleep better When they eat more red meat.

01:36:12.000 Like, you would never make that connection, right?

01:36:14.000 Sounds crazy.

01:36:16.000 I didn't mention this, I hope it goes without saying, that there's a massive militant focus on organic and sourcing.

01:36:23.000 I would tell people never to touch an animal food if they don't know You know, that it was consciously raised.

01:36:29.000 Okay, so that's an important caveat.

01:36:31.000 So sleep gets better.

01:36:33.000 A lot of the, like, ravenous hunger...

01:36:36.000 Like, I have patients who can't even go as long as we've been talking without, like, having a snack or they get hangry, right?

01:36:41.000 Right, yeah.

01:36:43.000 Irritable, lightheaded, you know, sort of racing heart.

01:36:46.000 Carb addicts.

01:36:47.000 Yeah, pretty much.

01:36:48.000 But, like, who is it, you know, when you're just eating convenience food?

01:36:52.000 Like, that's a natural response.

01:36:53.000 Right.

01:36:55.000 And then sometimes it's much more radical.

01:36:57.000 So like in Ali's case, within two cycles, she was completely symptom-free.

01:37:06.000 So she went from grossly psychotic and suicidal to not only totally symptom-free, but now she's like moved through, is moving through, I would say, a process of awakening.

01:37:17.000 Like it's a spiritual shift.

01:37:20.000 Right?

01:37:20.000 Because it's like, you know, Gibran says, like, the wound is where the light enters.

01:37:25.000 And we don't have that consciousness as a society because we think that suffering...

01:37:30.000 What does that mean, the wound is where the light enters?

01:37:31.000 It means that grief, pain, suffering is where you grow.

01:37:37.000 Like, it's where the real experience of being human and where the real contact with who you are...

01:37:44.000 So this is true even for something like ayahuasca.

01:37:48.000 Why would anyone ever do something like that?

01:37:49.000 But the point is, through that experience of humbling surrender, you meet yourself.

01:37:56.000 But we don't have a consciousness for that in America.

01:37:59.000 In fact, crying, like literally tears, is a symptom in the DSM. So it's literally a pathological symptom to cry.

01:38:08.000 That is the most basic evidence of our humanity, is that we cry.

01:38:13.000 And if we are living in a culture that says, you're sick when you're crying, stop doing that.

01:38:21.000 Take this so that you can stop feeling.

01:38:23.000 We have a bigger problem on our hands, right?

01:38:26.000 So I know I can't just sit in my Madison Avenue office taking people off of meds and think like, oh, you know, I'm changing the world.

01:38:32.000 This is a systemic cultural issue that we...

01:38:39.000 We're good to go.

01:39:06.000 It doesn't matter if your kid just died, or your wife, or your dad.

01:39:14.000 So that's bereavement.

01:39:15.000 It doesn't matter.

01:39:16.000 You're still a candidate for treatment.

01:39:19.000 Or if you got fired, or if you experienced a natural disaster, or if you lost your house in a fire.

01:39:25.000 It doesn't matter.

01:39:27.000 Right.

01:39:27.000 So some people saw that as like, wow, really a last straw of pathologizing normal human experience.

01:39:35.000 So is that one of the issues with these dissociative sort of chemicals that people get put on?

01:39:40.000 Because that's like one of the ways to describe a lot of people's reaction to SSRIs and antidepressants is a dissociative.

01:39:47.000 Yes.

01:39:48.000 Like they have a very, they can, anything can happen and they're okay with it.

01:39:51.000 It's fine.

01:39:52.000 No worries.

01:39:53.000 No big deal.

01:39:53.000 Right.

01:39:53.000 So they don't get these highs and lows.

01:39:55.000 And so because they don't get the lows, they don't get to rebound and get the highs.

01:39:59.000 And then also find themselves, understand themselves, so they can manage how low the lows get through the mind and through your just living in the moment and understanding.

01:40:11.000 Yes, exactly.

01:40:12.000 Understanding that this is just a natural process of life and you've been through it before.

01:40:16.000 So instead of taking a pill, just suck it up.

01:40:19.000 100%.

01:40:19.000 I mean, we don't, right, like, in tribal cultures, like, men are initiated, right?

01:40:24.000 Oh, I've got a video I'll show you if you really want to see.

01:40:28.000 Right, like, you've got a tooth yanked out, or you've got to, like, survive in the wild. 0.78

01:40:32.000 No, I've got an African circumcision video if you really want to get crazy. 0.99

01:40:34.000 Oh, my gosh.

01:40:35.000 Yeah, one of the ones.

01:40:36.000 You know, so we think of ourselves as being lucky, like that we don't have to go through that.

01:40:42.000 For sure.

01:40:43.000 I'm not taking responsibility for what's in this video as being in any way related to what I'm talking about.

01:40:48.000 No, definitely not.

01:40:50.000 I'm sure.

01:40:51.000 You wouldn't approve.

01:40:53.000 But it's true.

01:40:54.000 We just baby our way through life because no one is teaching us how to confront our deepest fears, explore the shadow realms, and integrate it into our own power.

01:41:10.000 We have no understanding of it.

01:41:12.000 We make fun of that.

01:41:13.000 We think it's woo-weirdness that other cultures can do in their little tropical islands. 1.00

01:41:23.000 Yeah.

01:41:34.000 Yeah.

01:41:43.000 Yeah.

01:42:05.000 And then once it happens, they move through into this awakened state.

01:42:10.000 I mean, the vast majority of my patients and online course completers go on to become healers.

01:42:17.000 Why else would that happen if they weren't...

01:42:20.000 You're making people crazy, that's why.

01:42:21.000 They're turning to healers.

01:42:23.000 But you surely must experience a massive blowback from just conventional psychiatric medicine practitioners who are looking at what you're saying and saying, so you're telling someone all they have to do is just stop eating sugar and they won't be psychotic anymore. 1.00

01:42:39.000 That's fucking crazy. 0.99

01:42:40.000 I'm not saying... 0.99

01:42:41.000 I know you're not saying that, but I'm boiling it down to that.

01:42:44.000 You're saying that you took this woman and you took her off of processed foods, you made her eat healthy vegetables and meat and eggs and healthy fats.

01:42:52.000 Detox and meditate.

01:42:53.000 Coconut oil and avocado oil and detox and medication and all the inflammation went away.

01:42:59.000 The problem of the insulin spikes and all the blood sugar spikes, that goes away and then the body somehow or another comes back to some sort of a baseline.

01:43:10.000 That's right.

01:43:10.000 And, you know, in the New England Journal of Medicine recently, there was a case report, right?

01:43:16.000 37-year-old woman who was so psychotic that her family took out a restraining order on her.

01:43:22.000 Okay? 0.99

01:43:22.000 Paranoid, delusional, totally psychotic. 0.99

01:43:24.000 She was treated with Risperdal and Zoloft, an antipsychotic and an antidepressant, which did nothing.

01:43:30.000 A year of this nonsense later, she was finally diagnosed with gluten sensitivity.

01:43:35.000 Okay, so wheat sensitivity, right?

01:43:37.000 They put her on a three... 0.99

01:43:38.000 This is in the hospital.

01:43:39.000 This is not like in some quack's office, you know, in Boulder. 0.79

01:43:44.000 How dare you go after Boulder like that?

01:43:47.000 It's one spot, though.

01:43:48.000 That is a spot.

01:43:49.000 And Sedona.

01:43:50.000 That's another one.

01:43:51.000 I'm going there, actually.

01:43:53.000 Can't wait to check it out.

01:43:55.000 Totally.

01:43:55.000 So in three months on this strict gluten-free diet, she was totally normal again.

01:44:01.000 Wow.

01:44:02.000 So this is not like a wellness fad.

01:44:04.000 There are real root drivers, but we don't know what it is for you, right?

01:44:09.000 Like I said, it could be physiologic, where it's like, you know, there's a similar story about a lifelong vegetarian woman, this is in the published literature, who became psychotically depressed, was admitted for catatonia.

01:44:21.000 Catatonia is like the worst diagnosis in In psychiatry, right?

01:44:26.000 She's basically unresponsive. 0.98

01:44:27.000 She was so mentally ill. 0.76

01:44:31.000 They treated her with electroshock therapy because the antipsychotics and antidepressants they used didn't work.

01:44:37.000 Finally, she gets transferred to an outside hospital because they were like, well, we don't know what to do with this woman. 0.97

01:44:42.000 They check her B12 level and it's like...

01:44:44.000 You know, tanked.

01:44:46.000 They give her a couple of B12 injections.

01:44:48.000 And not only is she better, but she's better than she's been in like 14 years from a couple of B12. So my point is that for her, it was B12. For her, it was wheat.

01:44:58.000 For someone else, it could be blood sugar instability.

01:45:00.000 For someone else, thyroid, autoimmune thyroid can make you cry.

01:45:04.000 Crazy.

01:45:05.000 Can make you suicidal, according to the literature. 0.63

01:45:08.000 It's not a theory, right?

01:45:09.000 Have you ever had anybody that you put on this diet and they didn't respond and they stayed psychotic or whatever their issue was?

01:45:15.000 Here's why not a long time.

01:45:19.000 Because I screen for readiness, right?

01:45:23.000 So I screen for mindset.

01:45:25.000 And that's what we were talking about earlier.

01:45:27.000 Because if you're ready and you believe that you're like a whole radical next chapter of your life is like forthcoming...

01:45:35.000 Then I'm just part of the ritual, you know?

01:45:39.000 And it's like using the placebo effect even.

01:45:42.000 I don't know.

01:45:43.000 I mean, I'm very interested in science.

01:45:44.000 Well, it's not really a placebo, right?

01:45:45.000 But it is a belief.

01:45:48.000 If you don't believe that this is going to do anything for you and you're a skeptic, it won't.

01:45:54.000 It won't.

01:45:55.000 And I can show you all the science in the world and it won't work for you.

01:45:59.000 But the physiological changes of adjusting your diet, those are real, right?

01:46:03.000 So, like, why won't it help you?

01:46:04.000 But your beliefs can even override that.

01:46:06.000 Whoa.

01:46:07.000 I think that's true.

01:46:08.000 How's that possible?

01:46:09.000 Okay, so I'll tell you about another study.

01:46:10.000 Okay.

01:46:11.000 So these are people like your friends and millions of others who think they were treated to remission, think medication really helped them, right?

01:46:18.000 Right.

01:46:19.000 With Prozac.

01:46:20.000 Okay, so they're like well on Prozac.

01:46:22.000 Okay, so they're put in this study, 12-week study, and they get to either stay with their same dose of Prozac that helped them or they get crossed over to the placebo arm, the sugar pill arm.

01:46:34.000 And they don't know which is going to happen, right?

01:46:38.000 So what happened, interestingly, in that study is that the time they were crossed over or not, they both, both groups became statistically significantly depressed, right?

01:46:49.000 So like Mary takes her 40 milligrams on Tuesday, enters the study.

01:46:53.000 Is still taking her 40 milligrams like next Thursday, but now all of a sudden she's acutely depressed just because of the possibility that she might have gotten the sugar pill.

01:47:02.000 That's called the nocebo effect.

01:47:04.000 So the nocebo effect is the impact of fear or negative beliefs that limit your ability to respond to a given intervention.

01:47:12.000 It's real.

01:47:13.000 It's more important than anything we're actually doing is what you believe is happening.

01:47:19.000 So if somebody convinces you that Krispy Kreme...

01:47:22.000 Donuts could fix you.

01:47:25.000 There literally might be some truth to that.

01:47:27.000 There could be.

01:47:28.000 And I would equate on some level like psych meds with Krispy Kreme donuts.

01:47:33.000 So there are some people who are going to say like, wow, that really helped me.

01:47:36.000 So this guy, Irving Kirsch, right?

01:47:38.000 He's a psychologist who's like a placebo effect expert, arguably.

01:47:43.000 What he identified was that when you control for what's called the active placebo effect, which is what happens when you feel the side effects you've been warned about, Of a given medication, and then you feel the medication is working,

01:47:59.000 and then it actually works, right?

01:48:02.000 So when you control for the active placebo effect by giving people in a trial antidepressant, but then also a medication like atropine, for example, that has very similar side effects, dry mouth, you know, headache, constipation,

01:48:17.000 this kind of thing, there's no difference.

01:48:19.000 So what he showed is that there is no statistically significant effect of antidepressants above and beyond placebo.

01:48:27.000 And that the reason that people believe that they're working, and they are, right?

01:48:31.000 So they believe it and then they do, is because they feel a shift.

01:48:36.000 They feel a change.

01:48:37.000 And they've been educated by commercials and their doctor maybe about these side effects.

01:48:42.000 And then they start to say, oh, my chemical imbalance is being...

01:48:47.000 Adjusted.

01:48:47.000 Adjusted, right?

01:48:49.000 So it's subtle, but this is not just in psychiatry.

01:48:52.000 It's really relevant to psychiatry, but it's true in surgery.

01:48:56.000 You know, they do sham operations and orthopedics, and it's true in even, you know...

01:49:02.000 Pain management, you know, that the placebo effect is so real.

01:49:05.000 And it's not like you're being fooled.

01:49:07.000 Like, you know, like, in my training, I was taught to dismiss the placebo effect like some nuisance we have to control for.

01:49:14.000 But it's, if we could, Bruce Lipton said this, like, if we could harness this, we would have a side effect for a Medicine for everyone.

01:49:22.000 But we don't study it.

01:49:24.000 We don't understand it.

01:49:25.000 And we just assume it's like people being tricked or something.

01:49:28.000 Well, aren't the placebo effects fairly limited?

01:49:30.000 Like nothing really truly miraculous has happened.

01:49:33.000 True.

01:49:33.000 It's about 30%.

01:49:34.000 That's pretty good.

01:49:36.000 But that's exactly the efficacy of antidepressants is around 30%.

01:49:41.000 There was a study once that was done on a kid who had some horrible wart disease where it was incurable and it was like spreading all over their body and all over their arm.

01:49:57.000 Do you know the study?

01:49:58.000 I don't.

01:49:59.000 And they gave this kid some sort of a placebo and it completely cleared it up.

01:50:06.000 That's amazing.

01:50:07.000 I should know that.

01:50:07.000 Check that out.

01:50:08.000 And then when they found out that it was a placebo, then it became a problem, and I think it came back.

01:50:12.000 Ethically, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:50:16.000 There's something going on with the mind and the body, right?

01:50:19.000 And that's what the placebo effect is demonstrating.

01:50:22.000 Right.

01:50:22.000 But this is unharnessed, and this is untrained, and this is very different than what's going on with the mind with meditation, which is harnessed and trained and focused.

01:50:32.000 So your thought is that this mind factor is not just an inconvenience, it's not just a variable, but maybe one of the most crucial aspects to overall health.

01:50:45.000 If not the most crucial.

01:50:47.000 Yeah.

01:50:48.000 And again, conventional medicine is interested in this to some extent now, noticing that what people believe, like that you'll lose less blood in surgery if you visualize losing less blood in surgery, that that actually happens.

01:51:01.000 How can you control the physiologic activity of your body?

01:51:05.000 But you can.

01:51:06.000 Really?

01:51:06.000 They can prove that?

01:51:08.000 It's a study on PubMed.

01:51:10.000 Wow.

01:51:10.000 So how do they convince them that they're going to lose less blood?

01:51:13.000 They visualize it.

01:51:14.000 They meditate on it, visualize losing less blood.

01:51:17.000 So they have one group that says, you're going to do a visualization where you just like visualize your body letting go of less blood after the surgery or during the surgery.

01:51:26.000 And then the other group just does their thing.

01:51:28.000 What if you have one group, you say, dude, you're going to spray like a fountain.

01:51:31.000 You're like a broken fire hydrant.

01:51:34.000 You're going to just be gushing over the table. 0.90

01:51:36.000 You're going to be a sprinkler.

01:51:37.000 You're right.

01:51:38.000 You should conduct this study.

01:51:39.000 That would be fascinating to see if the nocebo effect would have...

01:51:42.000 It probably would.

01:51:44.000 It probably would. 0.99

01:51:45.000 Yeah, I would imagine there's probably a way you could mindfuck someone into some terrible state, right? 0.99

01:51:51.000 No question. 0.98

01:51:51.000 So you know where we see this is in cancer diagnosis. 0.98

01:51:54.000 It's called medical hexing, that when you are diagnosed with cancer, the completion of suicide, but also other accidents, and your health basically declines.

01:52:04.000 Simply because of the diagnosis and that's why it's considered to be it's like bone pointing or something.

01:52:10.000 So it's voodoo. 0.95

01:52:10.000 It's what we've always known that like someone could put a hex on you and if you know that a hex is on you you're like god damn there's a goddamn hex on me and you start believing it and then it could really cause a huge issue. 0.95

01:52:22.000 That's what has become clear to me is real. 0.92

01:52:25.000 I think?

01:52:48.000 But it's real in a lot of aspects, like the medicine involved in treating a bacterial infection, antibiotics, the medicine involved in healing a broken arm.

01:52:58.000 There's real stuff there, too.

01:53:02.000 So antibiotics is a whole other conversation, for sure.

01:53:04.000 Emergency medicine, listen, if I get hit by a bus, don't bring me to my naturopath in her office downtown.

01:53:13.000 She's going to light a candle.

01:53:14.000 Right, exactly.

01:53:15.000 It's gonna be fine.

01:53:16.000 Don't start saging my body.

01:53:18.000 For emergencies, that's what conventional medicine is really designed for.

01:53:22.000 We only ran into trouble when we started extrapolating from acute setting medicine into the outpatient world.

01:53:29.000 Well, also the denial of the aspects of nutrition.

01:53:33.000 Denial of the influence of nutrition.

01:53:35.000 This idea of only concentrating on the medicine and not concentrating on what we know to be viable alternatives and things that can make your body healthier.

01:53:44.000 Not taking that into account seems almost insane.

01:53:48.000 It seems like you're going to fix a car.

01:53:50.000 I hear a banging. 1.00

01:53:50.000 I'm just going to inflate these fucking tires. 1.00

01:53:53.000 What about the engine? 0.99

01:53:54.000 There's a banging in the engine.

01:53:55.000 Should I fix the engine?

01:53:57.000 No, no, no.

01:53:58.000 Just turn off the alarm light and keep going.

01:54:00.000 Yeah, let's just turn the AC on.

01:54:01.000 It's almost like...

01:54:02.000 There's certain aspects they're looking at, the aspects of medication, and because of all the aforementioned variables like student loans, the consensus of your peers, everybody's in this sort of group together, there's all this unspoken word that you're not going to criticize,

01:54:19.000 the establishment, and you can't really do that because if you do, you're out of a job and all your money that you spend on...

01:54:24.000 God.

01:54:26.000 Yeah, I mean...

01:54:29.000 It's important to remember that the pharmaceutical industry is a business, right?

01:54:35.000 When you forget that and you think that they're in it to protect your well-being...

01:54:39.000 You're here to help us.

01:54:39.000 I see commercials.

01:54:41.000 If you forget that, which is easy to do, especially because...

01:54:47.000 Right.

01:55:10.000 Their approach.

01:55:11.000 But our education as doctors is totally through the lens of pharmaceutical model.

01:55:18.000 Regulatory agencies, famously, like the FDA, CDC, and industry, it's a revolving door, literally.

01:55:25.000 And this is totally available information on the Internet.

01:55:28.000 That they're all the same people.

01:55:30.000 So we really do have the fox guarding the henhouse, and that's where we get into trouble.

01:55:34.000 If we don't have transparency around a true regulatory body that is not fiscally invested, we're going to have a problem, especially if we're presenting this as the only legitimate course of action for a sick patient, where you can actually,

01:55:50.000 as a parent, have your children taken away from you if you don't participate in the model.

01:55:56.000 Have there ever been any serious suggestions that we remove this whole ask your doctor commercial aspect of medicine?

01:56:04.000 Not to my knowledge.

01:56:05.000 It seems so crazy that we know how influential commercials are.

01:56:09.000 Right.

01:56:09.000 I mean, they're so influential.

01:56:11.000 And these are not just fact-based commercials.

01:56:13.000 They've got cheery music going on. 0.99

01:56:15.000 There's sunshine and butterflies and shit. 0.99

01:56:17.000 And it just makes you feel like super happy. 0.98

01:56:20.000 Like, I want to be like these people.

01:56:21.000 They're smiling all the time.

01:56:22.000 Totally.

01:56:22.000 It's conditioning.

01:56:24.000 It's so crazy that they can do that for drugs.

01:56:26.000 But you could argue, right, that you're just empowering patients with knowledge to help themselves.

01:56:32.000 Right?

01:56:33.000 That's why we're allowing the commercials.

01:56:36.000 Ask your doctor if Abilify is going to keep you from jumping off a bridge.

01:56:40.000 Or make you do it.

01:56:40.000 Ask your doctor.

01:56:41.000 Oh my gosh, no.

01:56:42.000 Yeah.

01:56:43.000 So you said Abilify was at one point in time the most prescribed?

01:56:46.000 Yeah, recently it was the number one prescription.

01:56:48.000 I think it was two years ago.

01:56:50.000 Synthroid's always up there.

01:56:52.000 But yeah, it was.

01:56:53.000 And it's because it's...

01:56:56.000 There's these trends, I guess, these stylistic trends in prescribing that, of course, have no evidence base.

01:57:03.000 But in psychiatry, we're really vulnerable to that because there isn't a clear, you know, A to B in terms of presenting symptoms and medication recommendation.

01:57:11.000 It's sort of a free-for-all.

01:57:13.000 You know, you can pile on as many or as few as you want.

01:57:16.000 And there are algorithms, but they're very loose.

01:57:19.000 What you're trying to say is Scientology is right.

01:57:22.000 Who said that?

01:57:24.000 It's kind of what you're trying to say, right?

01:57:26.000 I mean, aren't they like super anti-Scientology?

01:57:29.000 Remember when Tom Cruise was on?

01:57:30.000 I do.

01:57:31.000 What's his face?

01:57:32.000 What's that dude's name?

01:57:34.000 The dude's name, the Good Morning America guy.

01:57:37.000 Wasn't he on Oprah too?

01:57:38.000 Matt Lauer.

01:57:38.000 Matt Lauer, yeah.

01:57:39.000 Matt, you're glib.

01:57:40.000 Matt Lauer, that's right.

01:57:40.000 You're glib, Matt.

01:57:41.000 Yeah, he's been on Oprah.

01:57:42.000 But in Oprah, it was when he was in love.

01:57:44.000 He jumped up on the couch and he was in love like no straight man who's ever lived on the face of the planet.

01:57:52.000 Let him do his thing.

01:57:53.000 Yeah, he's in love.

01:57:54.000 I'm in love.

01:57:55.000 Now I'm divorced.

01:57:56.000 But back then, I was into it.

01:57:58.000 But no, when he was saying that on the Good Morning America show with Matt Lauer, he was essentially just saying what Scientology has always said.

01:58:07.000 Like, if you go down Sunset or Hollywood, where's the Psychiatry Kill Center?

01:58:13.000 Oh, right.

01:58:14.000 You know?

01:58:14.000 I think it's on Sunset.

01:58:16.000 There's some part of Hollywood.

01:58:17.000 We used to have protests outside of the hospital, too.

01:58:19.000 They have people with, like, electro-shock helmets on, like, ah!

01:58:22.000 And, like, it's like psychiatry kills.

01:58:24.000 Like, what is this? 1.00

01:58:25.000 It's a fucking Scientology center. 1.00

01:58:27.000 I know. 1.00

01:58:27.000 If you go in there, they're like, you don't need Scientology. 1.00

01:58:29.000 You need to hold on to these cans that are attached to the E-meter.

01:58:33.000 We've got to find out what's ticking.

01:58:35.000 And then they start manipulating your beliefs, and that in turn helps you feel better.

01:58:40.000 So there is some sort of a correlation between the mind.

01:58:44.000 In a way, they're almost not totally misguided in their efforts, right?

01:58:49.000 Yes.

01:58:50.000 And I would say an important difference in my perspective, perhaps, and theirs, is that I believe in individual empowerment.

01:58:57.000 Also, you're not asking for 10% of all their income.

01:59:00.000 And you don't require two and a half hours of study every night.

01:59:05.000 Yeah.

01:59:05.000 No, there's hopefully more differences than that.

01:59:07.000 But no, I mean, it's, you know, if you're subsuming someone into a, I don't want to say like...

01:59:13.000 Culture.

01:59:13.000 How about a culture?

01:59:15.000 Oh, that's cool.

01:59:15.000 Just pause before I say the chur.

01:59:19.000 Culture.

01:59:21.000 Then you're just transferring dependence, you know, from one model to the next.

01:59:25.000 And, you know, sort of my bag is to really...

01:59:29.000 Give people back their power through a methodology that's, you know, their own alone.

01:59:34.000 I think that highlights why that stuff works for people and why a lot of different things work for people.

01:59:39.000 A lot of different kinds of religions and unfortunately a lot of different cults and a lot of different ideologies and a lot of different mindsets do work for people. 0.98

01:59:47.000 Even fucking CrossFit. 0.72

01:59:48.000 There was a great article that I read about equating CrossFit to the fact that people do not have these religious groups. 0.99

01:59:56.000 They don't have these social bonding groups.

01:59:57.000 Yeah, it's like a community.

01:59:57.000 Because they're not going to church anymore, so now they're going to this gym, and a lot of them literally call the gym church.

02:00:03.000 Totally.

02:00:04.000 Yeah.

02:00:04.000 Have you heard of the rat park studies?

02:00:07.000 Rat park?

02:00:08.000 Yeah, rat, like the rodent.

02:00:10.000 Which studies on what?

02:00:11.000 So, there are these Canadian studies that basically looked at the addictive model of cocaine, right?

02:00:18.000 So, like, you put...

02:00:19.000 We know, right, that if you put a rat in a cage by itself and you give it the choice of water or cocaine, it's going to drink the cocaine until it dies.

02:00:28.000 Yeah, I am aware of these studies.

02:00:29.000 Yeah, so then these researchers were basically like, well, hold on a minute.

02:00:32.000 That's like totally a natural environment for a rat to be in.

02:00:35.000 So what if we put it in rat heaven where it can have sex with the rats and hang out and have a community and there's things to play with and little wheels and whatever? 0.73

02:00:44.000 Then what happens? 0.77

02:00:45.000 And if you give them cocaine or water, they don't touch the cocaine.

02:00:49.000 And you can even addict them in isolation and they will voluntarily detox in rat heaven. 0.57

02:00:54.000 Isn't that fascinating?

02:00:55.000 Yeah.

02:00:56.000 So what does that mean, right?

02:00:57.000 It means that we fundamentally need community.

02:01:01.000 Like we need each other, like it or not.

02:01:04.000 And we don't have that as a part of the fabric.

02:01:07.000 We live in boxes.

02:01:08.000 We don't know our neighbors.

02:01:10.000 Like we don't have communities anymore.

02:01:12.000 Right.

02:01:12.000 And so any time we have the opportunity, whether through AA or CrossFit, to plug into a community, we fix something inside ourselves so we have less of a vulnerability to abuse the effects of a substance like cocaine or alcohol.

02:01:30.000 Right.

02:01:31.000 The rat park study is so important because so many people will cite that as evidence that cocaine is so incredibly addictive.

02:01:38.000 Well, then when they find out about this, because this is like a different variation on that study, and they go, oh, okay.

02:01:44.000 I'm in a rat park.

02:01:45.000 The context matters. 0.67

02:01:47.000 I mean, you're kind of in a rat park every day if you're in a cubicle environment, you're in your car in traffic, or you're on the bus and no one's talking to anybody.

02:01:54.000 You're in your little cubicle by yourself, you know.

02:01:57.000 And then there's shared suffering that's coming from things like CrossFit, where you have these moments where you're bonding together, almost like you guys are, you know, you're in the trenches, right?

02:02:06.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:02:08.000 Suffering together.

02:02:08.000 There's something to yoga class like that.

02:02:11.000 People get all Sat Nam Namaste on you.

02:02:14.000 Kundalini's like that.

02:02:15.000 There's a lot of struggle.

02:02:16.000 It's the...

02:02:16.000 It's hard.

02:02:17.000 It's hard.

02:02:18.000 It's super hard.

02:02:18.000 Yeah.

02:02:19.000 Yoga's really hard, and that's part of what's good about it, is that we need, I think we need hard things.

02:02:25.000 I think your body, if you're just constantly nerfed, and everything's soft, and everything's a free ride, and there's no ups or downs, and everything's middle, like, what is that?

02:02:36.000 That's not a human. 0.86

02:02:37.000 It's not life.

02:02:38.000 100%.

02:02:38.000 But we forget that.

02:02:40.000 So, like, when you're having a difficult window in your life, you know, and maybe you know why, like you had a loss, or maybe you don't know why, and things are just off, right?

02:02:51.000 Like, either you have a consciousness that says, there's something here, you know, there's something to this, there's some meaning to this, I gotta look deeper, I gotta pay attention to things, I gotta rebalance and differ, I gotta up my game, you know, of self-care.

02:03:04.000 Or you're like, this sucks.

02:03:06.000 I don't want to feel this way. 0.76

02:03:08.000 And there are thousands of prescribers, like, happy to open their door to you.

02:03:12.000 Yeah.

02:03:12.000 And that is really the problem, right?

02:03:15.000 The real problem is that there's so many different options other than what's going to make you healthy.

02:03:19.000 And there's so many different ways to just numb this whole experience.

02:03:23.000 Just numb it all down.

02:03:24.000 Like, let's put some ice on it, baby.

02:03:26.000 You're going to be fine.

02:03:27.000 Let's numb this whole thing down.

02:03:29.000 I have been of the opinion, especially over the last few years, I've really focused on this heavily and I've talked about it maybe too much, but I think people need to struggle in order to appreciate how nice things are and also to mitigate the effects of actual bad things that happen to you.

02:03:49.000 If you can do difficult, hard things on a daily basis, on a regular basis, You know, whatever your schedule allows for, but whether it's martial arts or whether it's yoga or whether it's difficult, struggle.

02:04:00.000 Physical struggles where you have to test yourself, where you have to pull through, you have to have discipline and resolve, and it's hard to do.

02:04:07.000 When you get through that, you develop that muscle and that understanding of struggle.

02:04:12.000 And believe it or not, this is where it's going to seem really weird.

02:04:15.000 The struggle that you get in a yoga class is so much harder than the struggle that you'll ever experience outside of that.

02:04:22.000 Right.

02:04:23.000 So you're ready.

02:04:24.000 Which doesn't make any sense.

02:04:24.000 Like, no, you're going to work out.

02:04:25.000 Like, this is just like, no, this is not spin class, man.

02:04:28.000 This is something, like, very intense.

02:04:30.000 Not that spin class is not difficult.

02:04:32.000 Hey, I was going to say, I'm a SoulCycle fan.

02:04:33.000 Watch it.

02:04:33.000 Yeah, I'm all about SoulCycle.

02:04:36.000 Spin class is hard too.

02:04:37.000 I mean, it's a bad example.

02:04:38.000 What I should say is it's not like going to the gym and doing like a simple round of calisthenics or exercise.

02:04:44.000 It's pushing you into your discomfort.

02:04:46.000 Real serious discomfort where you want to quit.

02:04:49.000 You want to stop and you have to push through.

02:04:51.000 And that intense focus on difficult things, it makes life more bearable.

02:04:57.000 Totally.

02:04:58.000 It makes it more enjoyable.

02:05:00.000 My awakening, so to speak, began when I gave birth for the first time.

02:05:06.000 And I had a natural birth.

02:05:09.000 Did you do it in a bathtub? 0.95

02:05:10.000 Did you get crazy?

02:05:11.000 I did it in a birthing center for the first time.

02:05:13.000 The second time I had a home birth.

02:05:14.000 Why did you do that though?

02:05:15.000 What if there was anything wrong and you needed to get to the hospital?

02:05:19.000 It's interesting because my first birth I was still in the matrix.

02:05:22.000 So I was still eating McDonald's and prescribing.

02:05:26.000 So did you like that kid less than the second kid?

02:05:29.000 You're the matrix baby.

02:05:31.000 You're totally the matrix.

02:05:31.000 Meanwhile, she's like a sage.

02:05:33.000 She had to compensate for all my dark energy.

02:05:36.000 So I actually had a natural birth because of the science.

02:05:40.000 Because I was like in this real like know-it-all place in my life.

02:05:47.000 Believe it or not, I've tried to move past that.

02:05:49.000 But I had this OB at the time, and I was like, she doesn't know what she's talking about.

02:05:56.000 And I researched, like, what is the evidence show?

02:05:59.000 OB is actually, like psychiatry, only about 30% of obstetrical practices are evidence-based, and the rest is consensus.

02:06:05.000 Like, the rest is just, they're just doing it because they're doing it.

02:06:08.000 What if that, like, the cord's wrapped around the baby?

02:06:10.000 What if nothing?

02:06:11.000 What if nothing?

02:06:11.000 We've been doing this since the beginning of time.

02:06:13.000 Right, but babies have died since the beginning of time because of these things, right?

02:06:17.000 So we actually have home birth versus hospital birth data, which should be totally unnecessary, right?

02:06:23.000 But we actually have it at this point to demonstrate that that's, like, patently—it's fear-mongering.

02:06:27.000 It's, like, patently false.

02:06:28.000 But people do get choked by umbilical cords, right?

02:06:32.000 Yes, certainly.

02:06:33.000 So what do you do?

02:06:34.000 Anything is possible, of course.

02:06:35.000 So when that's going down...

02:06:37.000 But the truth is that when you research the interventions, you will find...

02:06:42.000 So I had a natural birth because the research that I did on the interventions, things like fetal monitoring, episiotomy, even ultrasound, let alone C-section...

02:06:53.000 You know, antibiotics during delivery, etc.

02:06:55.000 What I found was that there wasn't science to support them.

02:06:58.000 And actually, the science suggests that they should be abandoned.

02:07:00.000 So what I was left with was...

02:07:02.000 What does the science suggest should be abandoned?

02:07:04.000 These interventions?

02:07:06.000 C-sections?

02:07:07.000 Yeah.

02:07:07.000 Oh, I mean, the consensus, even the WHO, which is part of the machine, but even the WHO says they should be less than 10%.

02:07:15.000 I mean, they're over...

02:07:17.000 In New York, they're upwards of almost 40% of birth star C-section births.

02:07:21.000 Why are women doing that? 1.00

02:07:22.000 Are they doing that to save their vaginas? 1.00

02:07:24.000 They're doing it because they don't want to feel bad feelings. 0.97

02:07:26.000 And they don't want to feel pain.

02:07:27.000 That's it?

02:07:27.000 It's exactly what we're talking about.

02:07:29.000 I've heard women specifically say they don't want to get stretched out. 1.00

02:07:32.000 I don't think that's a big...

02:07:35.000 Yes, certainly.

02:07:36.000 But I don't think that's a huge motivator.

02:07:37.000 Women have been made to feel afraid of their own bodies. 1.00

02:07:41.000 It's the birth control thing we were talking about earlier. 0.98

02:07:43.000 If you think of your body as a total pain that's dangerous, it's going to fuck up at any given time, and you're going to wish you had listened to your doctor, who's a man and has never had a baby... 0.96

02:07:58.000 Right.

02:08:16.000 Like, psychedelic level opportunity to have a transformation of your consciousness.

02:08:22.000 Because it is hard, and it is scary, and it breaks your mind.

02:08:26.000 My mind broke on that day.

02:08:29.000 Broke.

02:08:30.000 And it's never been recovered.

02:08:32.000 Because it was literally so intense that my mind was telling me, you're gonna die, you're gonna die, you're gonna die, you're gonna die.

02:08:39.000 From the pain.

02:08:39.000 It's like pain, but it's more than that.

02:08:43.000 It's not pain that you would have recognized.

02:08:46.000 Because it's purposeful pain.

02:08:49.000 It's not just a signal of something wrong, right?

02:08:52.000 So it's a sensation that is a part of the process of moving a human being.

02:09:03.000 Why are they screaming?

02:09:09.000 It sounds like it's pain.

02:09:23.000 We make those kinds of sounds.

02:09:25.000 And there is a lot of fear.

02:09:27.000 But ultimately, if you don't succumb to it, it breaks.

02:09:32.000 And you see, oh, that was trying to tell me I couldn't do this.

02:09:35.000 And look, I just did it. 1.00

02:09:36.000 Do you ever think that if you could meet your old self, that your old self be like, listen to this crazy bitch? 1.00

02:09:44.000 100%. 1.00

02:09:45.000 I wouldn't even have hung out with me.

02:09:48.000 I wouldn't even have talked to me at a bar.

02:09:50.000 Kundalini and placebos, huh?

02:09:52.000 What do you want me to do?

02:09:53.000 Eat eggs? 1.00

02:09:53.000 Get the fuck out of here. 1.00

02:09:54.000 This girl's crazy. 1.00

02:09:56.000 Get her on pills. 1.00

02:09:56.000 You need pills. 1.00

02:09:57.000 No, you need pills.

02:09:59.000 You're delusional.

02:10:00.000 You're talking about healers and holistic medicine.

02:10:04.000 It would have been the eye roll of all time.

02:10:06.000 Totally.

02:10:07.000 That's hilarious.

02:10:08.000 How do you, you know...

02:10:11.000 Reconcile that?

02:10:12.000 Yeah.

02:10:13.000 Because I feel myself.

02:10:15.000 Like, I feel 100% myself.

02:10:18.000 So, is there a self-conscious aspect of it where you do recognize that there are certain science-based practitioners that will be, like, rolling their eyes at you?

02:10:27.000 Oh, I don't care.

02:10:27.000 You don't care?

02:10:28.000 No, no, I don't care about that.

02:10:29.000 And what's interesting, right, so I published this book last year, in March.

02:10:33.000 And what's it called again?

02:10:34.000 A Mind of Your Own.

02:10:35.000 And I published it, and it was a really weird experience because I was a total newbie.

02:10:40.000 I'd never written a book before or whatever.

02:10:43.000 And out the gate, I got this very generous advance from a mainstream publisher, which shocked me.

02:10:49.000 And then it comes time to publish it, and they can't get me on a single The Today Show, Dr. Oz, 60 Minutes, and they're used to waltzing their authors who they give these large advances to right onto these platforms,

02:11:05.000 mainstream media platforms.

02:11:07.000 I told them, it is not going to work with me.

02:11:09.000 You haven't worked with someone like me before.

02:11:11.000 Trust me, it's not going to work out.

02:11:12.000 These are all pharma-funded outlets.

02:11:14.000 Even NPR, PBS, they all are.

02:11:16.000 So we're going to have to come up with something else and Ultimately, they didn't listen and they started to spaz when I, a month before launch, didn't have a single interview.

02:11:26.000 They'd never had that happen before.

02:11:28.000 And so it was cool because alt media, you know, like this, I just called on a bunch of my friends and colleagues and It was like top 20 on Amazon within the first week.

02:11:39.000 And that's like the power.

02:11:40.000 Like mainstream media is totally dead.

02:11:42.000 I don't have to tell you that.

02:11:44.000 It's weird.

02:11:45.000 It was so quiet for like the whole year afterward.

02:11:48.000 If you Google my book, there is not a negative review of this like very controversial text on the Internet.

02:11:55.000 Very weird.

02:11:56.000 Because we have trolls on our site every single day on Facebook, for example, or Facebook.

02:12:02.000 You know, Twitter, even Instagram.

02:12:03.000 It's like part of the deal of being an activist is that you deal with astroturfing and you deal with that whole, you know, sort of...

02:12:10.000 Astroturfing?

02:12:10.000 Oh, yeah.

02:12:12.000 There is an amazing TED Talk that you need to watch by Cheryl Atkison, who's like a turncoat Like she used to be an anchor, I don't know where.

02:12:22.000 And so she has this TED talk on astroturfing and she basically breaks it down.

02:12:26.000 Astroturfing is like what, so the word, right, it's like a fake grassroots movement on social media, right?

02:12:34.000 So it's paid, industry paid bots, basically, who generate the impression that there is an opinion anti anyone who threatens the establishment.

02:12:48.000 And then there are people who organically glom onto that.

02:12:54.000 So they'll come on my site by the thousands.

02:13:00.000 And immediately after a comment is written, you quack.

02:13:05.000 Where did you get that fake medical degree? 0.99

02:13:07.000 You're killing people. 1.00

02:13:08.000 You should be ashamed of yourself. 1.00

02:13:10.000 There's blood in your hands. 0.53

02:13:11.000 Yeah, exactly. 1.00

02:13:12.000 And they almost always call me a twat or a cunt. 1.00

02:13:14.000 That's like almost always part of it. 1.00

02:13:15.000 That's how you know.

02:13:16.000 And there will be like 500 likes within 10 minutes.

02:13:19.000 That's like one of the indications that it's a troll.

02:13:23.000 You know what I mean?

02:13:24.000 So like there'd be a Facebook comment. 0.88

02:13:25.000 How do you know that that's a troll and not just people resonating with this idea that they hate quacks?

02:13:29.000 Because I don't have that many people on my Facebook page that that would ever be a metric.

02:13:34.000 It's not even like probably algorithmically possible that it would be an organic phenomenon.

02:13:41.000 Did you see that thing recently?

02:13:42.000 Jamie brought it up yesterday about Donald Trump.

02:13:44.000 It turns out that he just had millions of bots follow him on Twitter.

02:13:50.000 Out of nowhere, something like 4 million bots just joined on and everyone's like, okay, what's going on here?

02:13:58.000 What happened here?

02:13:59.000 What is this?

02:13:59.000 These are fake accounts.

02:14:00.000 Yeah, it's like a thing.

02:14:03.000 It's not surprising that this would have been part of it.

02:14:05.000 No, it's not surprising that people have figured out that they can manipulate this.

02:14:07.000 Half of President Trump's Twitter followers are bots. 1.00

02:14:11.000 Holy shit, this is so crazy. 0.99

02:14:13.000 So you generate the impression that there's a grassroots energy and that it's actually not real. 0.99

02:14:19.000 He picked up 3 million Twitter followers in recent days, most of which appear to be recently created Twitter bots.

02:14:26.000 Screenwriter John Niven pointed out Tuesday morning that Trump's account saw a big spike in followers over the weekend, most of them newly created accounts without photos or tweets.

02:14:35.000 Tell several times signs of Twitter bots.

02:14:37.000 Wow, that's crazy.

02:14:41.000 So that is something that they're doing.

02:14:43.000 They're making an active campaign to sort of bolst up his public appeal.

02:14:49.000 Right.

02:14:49.000 And in that case, you know, I don't know specifically, but in that case, it would be to generate the impression that it's grassroots.

02:14:55.000 Right.

02:14:55.000 When it's not.

02:14:56.000 That's why it's called astroturfing.

02:14:57.000 Got it.

02:14:57.000 Because it's fake grassroots.

02:14:59.000 Got it.

02:14:59.000 But yeah.

02:15:00.000 So I have all that energy in my daily life, but I didn't have a single negative review of this book in like a year.

02:15:06.000 It was totally weird.

02:15:07.000 What are you laughing at?

02:15:08.000 Says it's false.

02:15:09.000 Why do they say it's mostly false?

02:15:11.000 Says President Trump, like other Twitter users with large following, has a large number of followers that appear to be bots or inauthentic automated user profiles.

02:15:22.000 What's false, Trump did not receive an influx of five million new Twitter followers in three days.

02:15:29.000 Oh, so snopes.

02:15:31.000 Questioning, yeah.

02:15:31.000 So how many did?

02:15:33.000 I thought they said three million.

02:15:36.000 As of May 1st it had 28.5, so it couldn't have gone up that fast over the month because it's only a 1.5 million gain.

02:15:43.000 I don't know.

02:15:45.000 That's not even abnormal for someone with that many millions.

02:15:49.000 He has 28 million.

02:15:51.000 I don't know.

02:15:53.000 The story just got weirder, so...

02:15:54.000 Yeah.

02:15:56.000 Hmm.

02:15:58.000 According to the archived images Twitter page, rumors of a surge in followers were greatly exaggerated.

02:16:03.000 Well, that's fake news!

02:16:06.000 Yeah, I mean...

02:16:07.000 That's what he's talking about.

02:16:08.000 Bots could have jumped on the fake story, Dad.

02:16:10.000 Yeah, but I'm sure there's a ton of bots following him.

02:16:12.000 I know there's a ton of bots following me.

02:16:14.000 I get them all the time. 0.98

02:16:16.000 These women that are fake women that want to talk about sex. 1.00

02:16:19.000 Like, come chat with me about sex. 1.00

02:16:22.000 Come sex me up. 1.00

02:16:23.000 And they're like, it's all like the worst broken English. 0.99

02:16:26.000 Because you've tried to have a conversation with them.

02:16:28.000 It's not worked out.

02:16:29.000 Who explained it to us?

02:16:30.000 Yeah, I tried to...

02:16:31.000 DM them.

02:16:32.000 They don't ignore me.

02:16:33.000 Who tried to explain that to us?

02:16:35.000 That they use intentionally...

02:16:39.000 Was it Malice?

02:16:40.000 Was it Michael Malice?

02:16:41.000 Maybe not. 1.00

02:16:42.000 They use intentionally shitty language so that if you follow them, their poor grammar sort of alerts them to suspicious people so that suspicious people don't interact with them, but dumb people. 1.00

02:16:55.000 So they're a honeypot that creates this environment that stupid people are attracted to because they can't see the grammatical errors because they're dumb. 1.00

02:17:04.000 And so it makes it more effective. 1.00

02:17:06.000 So these Nigerian scammers apparently... 1.00

02:17:09.000 They purposely use bad grammar. 1.00

02:17:11.000 Like, they're more than capable of using good English, but they use this shitty grammar so that the people that they do get are just really dumb. 0.96

02:17:18.000 They're not trying to snag, like, the Ivy Leaguers.

02:17:22.000 Yeah, well, anybody who's got a discerning idea of, you know, what this may or may not be.

02:17:26.000 They're not trying to get that.

02:17:28.000 They're trying to get the gullible, and there's plenty of them.

02:17:31.000 Like, why go fishing for sharks?

02:17:32.000 We can catch guppies.

02:17:34.000 You know, and get nets full of guppies.

02:17:36.000 They can't even chew their way through the net.

02:17:37.000 This is easy pickings.

02:17:39.000 Don't go try to catch a whale, dude.

02:17:41.000 That's too much work.

02:17:42.000 You know?

02:17:43.000 It's really interesting, though.

02:17:44.000 I mean, if that is how sophisticated they truly are, it's kind of fascinating.

02:17:50.000 But once you know this stuff, then you can interpret.

02:17:52.000 It just helps to be aware of it.

02:17:55.000 It would be a big, big deal if we found out that pharmaceutical companies were actively engaging in the use of these bots to attack people like you. 0.96

02:18:04.000 If you had someone like WikiLeaks on your side that dug into this shit and got some whistleblower from the pharmaceutical industry that cares, And release that stuff. 0.96

02:18:15.000 That would be pretty giant. 0.97

02:18:17.000 I have some colleagues working on that.

02:18:19.000 Really?

02:18:19.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:18:19.000 Don't tell people.

02:18:20.000 Now they're going to try to cover their tracks.

02:18:23.000 They'll never know.

02:18:24.000 No.

02:18:25.000 I mean, the truth is that I don't think it's going to require that because I think people are waking up.

02:18:30.000 Just like by sheer zeitgeist energy.

02:18:32.000 People are waking up. 0.93

02:18:33.000 They are calling bullshit on a lot of the heavy-handed claims of the pharmaceutical industry. 0.97

02:18:39.000 They know their doctors aren't helping them. 0.99

02:18:43.000 Right.

02:18:48.000 Right.

02:18:49.000 Right.

02:19:09.000 I don't know who made this quote, but it's a wonderful one in this regard. 1.00

02:19:13.000 Before diagnosing yourself with depression, first make sure you're not surrounded by assholes. 0.99

02:19:19.000 Whose quote is that? 1.00

02:19:20.000 The context!

02:19:21.000 It's a great quote.

02:19:21.000 It's real.

02:19:22.000 Find out whose quote that is.

02:19:23.000 It's a great quote.

02:19:24.000 It is. 0.99

02:19:25.000 And also, you might have a shitty life. 0.98

02:19:27.000 You might be bummed out because you're working all the time in a job that's uninspiring. 1.00

02:19:30.000 You might be bummed out because you've got an abusive spouse.

02:19:33.000 You might be bummed out because you live in a crime-infested neighborhood.

02:19:36.000 You might be bummed out for...

02:19:37.000 You might have some environmental issues that are causing health problems.

02:19:41.000 There's a lot going on.

02:19:43.000 You might work in a job that gets you exposed to toxic fumes or chemicals or...

02:19:49.000 Right.

02:19:49.000 It's a lot of variables.

02:19:51.000 We're in a medical system that blames your biology.

02:19:56.000 That's it.

02:19:57.000 It just blames your biology.

02:19:59.000 Because it's convenient and because it suits the paradigm that's in place.

02:20:03.000 That's exactly right.

02:20:04.000 That's exactly right.

02:20:09.000 A lot of people ascribe it to Freud, but this QuoteInvestigator.com says that it actually should go to this Twitter account.

02:20:19.000 A Twitter account?

02:20:20.000 Which Twitter account?

02:20:22.000 Debbie Hope should be credited with constructing the saying it says.

02:20:25.000 Debbie, you wizard you.

02:20:27.000 Whoever it was, she nailed it.

02:20:29.000 Did she nail it and attribute it to Freud?

02:20:32.000 That's kind of a clever move.

02:20:33.000 I don't want the attention.

02:20:34.000 The radio edit version.

02:20:36.000 Yeah, really awesome and attributed to some dead dude who was a genius.

02:20:39.000 I found this site before.

02:20:40.000 They kind of like do the telephone game with quotes and sort of like, this is what people are saying and then they go through all the iterations of how it's been translated out and Well, do you remember that one Greg Giraldo joke that got attributed to me online, and people had photos of me with Greg Giraldo's quote,

02:20:56.000 and something that I never said.

02:20:58.000 It's absolutely not mine. 0.96

02:20:59.000 I didn't know whose it was, and then someone had to say, it's Greg Giraldo's, and then people say, why are you stealing Greg Giraldo's shit? 0.97

02:21:05.000 I'm like, I'm not making memes! 0.98

02:21:07.000 Like, I'm not doing that.

02:21:08.000 Somebody else did that.

02:21:09.000 But I put it on Twitter.

02:21:11.000 This is not mine.

02:21:11.000 I think I might have put it on Instagram, too.

02:21:14.000 A long time ago.

02:21:14.000 But it was weird.

02:21:15.000 I kept getting them.

02:21:17.000 These memes come in waves.

02:21:20.000 I get ones that I did say.

02:21:22.000 I get those in waves, too.

02:21:24.000 I get these pictures of me with weird quotes that I'd said.

02:21:28.000 Memes are very powerful.

02:21:30.000 Video is even more powerful, though, because I think people have come to this conclusion that they can't trust anything anymore.

02:21:35.000 But memes are funny.

02:21:36.000 That's one of the things that—a good, solid meme— That's one of the things that was so egregious about that fat Jewish guy, is that he was stealing these brilliant ideas, and it made him look brilliant, when really he's just sort of this aggregator of other people's awesome ideas without giving them credit. 0.98

02:21:51.000 And he just got in on this plagiarism loophole, and everybody's like, what— And now he's got this weird thing that he does where he puts up the meme, he writes his own quote, and then just puts the originator's name at the end of it.

02:22:06.000 He doesn't even say originally created by, he just puts their name.

02:22:10.000 And that's like attributing credit, some sort of a weird way.

02:22:13.000 That's weird.

02:22:15.000 Super slimy.

02:22:17.000 Like, what's going on now with, like...

02:22:18.000 And the problem is, like, someone will send you something, and I have a real issue with this.

02:22:22.000 Like, someone sends me something that's hilarious, and I want to put it on Instagram, but I'm like, I don't know who made it.

02:22:27.000 Can I just put it up?

02:22:28.000 Like, what do I do? 0.99

02:22:29.000 Do I say, hey, I don't know who the fuck made this. 0.99

02:22:31.000 Let me know. 0.99

02:22:32.000 And then put it up, and then people go, oh, did you see what Joe Rogan said?

02:22:35.000 This is hilarious.

02:22:36.000 I didn't say it.

02:22:37.000 It matters.

02:22:38.000 I'm big into attribution, because it makes, like...

02:22:40.000 It's like I have company around me.

02:22:42.000 It's also people who turn it into a business.

02:22:45.000 The meme business is a business.

02:22:47.000 And then they have sponsored Instagram posts and sponsored tweets.

02:22:53.000 And they make a lot of money.

02:22:55.000 There's a lot of money to be made.

02:22:56.000 And people are getting these development deals to do television shows and all sorts of other things based on the content of other people's ideas that they're just aggregating.

02:23:04.000 That's amazing.

02:23:05.000 Yeah, well, it's just a weird loophole. 0.99

02:23:06.000 It's like if you were doing it with music, like say if you just wanted to take riffs that you thought were really awesome and put them on your music page, people will go, well, fuck you. 0.99

02:23:15.000 You can't do that. 0.99

02:23:16.000 This is my stuff.

02:23:17.000 I created this.

02:23:18.000 But that signature, unless you're putting watermarks on everything, that signature is not necessarily available with memes.

02:23:24.000 Right.

02:23:25.000 Because they're that powerful.

02:23:26.000 Yeah.

02:23:27.000 And even if you do put a watermark, you know what they do?

02:23:29.000 They just find the original photo, put their own quote over it, and just don't attribute anything to you.

02:23:35.000 Because they don't want you to have the watermark on their page.

02:23:37.000 It's so sneaky.

02:23:39.000 It's like some weird copyright loophole that exists now.

02:23:43.000 No one knows exactly what to do about it.

02:23:45.000 We need some ambulance chasing lawyers to catch up. 1.00

02:23:48.000 That's right.

02:23:48.000 Yes.

02:23:49.000 Ambulance chasers.

02:23:50.000 So what blowback have you experienced other than this influx of trolls and people there?

02:23:59.000 Oh, so that's what I was saying, right?

02:24:00.000 Is that for a whole year, none.

02:24:01.000 Like, I took out a large life insurance policy.

02:24:04.000 Did you?

02:24:05.000 When I published my book expecting, like, pretty serious.

02:24:08.000 You worried you were going to die?

02:24:10.000 Yeah.

02:24:10.000 It's happened.

02:24:12.000 I have colleagues, you know.

02:24:13.000 What colleagues do you have that have died?

02:24:18.000 I'm going to leave that mystery hanger.

02:24:21.000 Do you think people have been killed because they've criticized pharmaceutical companies?

02:24:27.000 You just have to know that it's the most powerful industry in the public eye, anyway.

02:24:32.000 That's intense, though, what you just said.

02:24:34.000 You have colleagues that you believe may have been killed.

02:24:38.000 I mean, you don't want to talk about it, obviously.

02:24:39.000 You clammed right up.

02:24:41.000 It's hard to shut me up.

02:24:43.000 It is hard to shut me up.

02:24:44.000 But you really believe that...

02:24:45.000 No, I just don't think it serves to focus on this layer.

02:24:49.000 Demon underlying power.

02:24:50.000 But I do think it's a possible narrative.

02:24:53.000 How about that?

02:24:53.000 It's a possible narrative.

02:24:54.000 They might silence you.

02:24:56.000 And in the realm of independent journalism and media, where some random schmo like me can actually have influence, especially, you know, that I am credentialed in a way that people might pay attention to, then why would they not want to,

02:25:12.000 you know, quiet me? 0.99

02:25:14.000 Well, they put labels on cigarettes and no one gives a shit. 0.99

02:25:18.000 You know, I don't know if what you're saying is worth killing somebody over. 0.99

02:25:22.000 Who knows?

02:25:23.000 I mean, I'm still here, so apparently not, right?

02:25:25.000 But you know what I mean?

02:25:26.000 I mean, it's like all those whistleblowers when it came to cigarettes and cancer. 0.99

02:25:29.000 Who gives a shit? 0.99

02:25:31.000 They make more money from cigarettes now than ever. 0.99

02:25:33.000 Less people smoke, so they just charge more for cigarettes, and they make more than ever.

02:25:36.000 They make more now for cigarettes than they have in the last 15 years.

02:25:40.000 Yeah, no, I believe that.

02:25:41.000 And it's true, that just because...

02:25:45.000 Right?

02:25:45.000 Like, I'm not just trying to scare people out of taking meds.

02:25:48.000 You're trying to help them.

02:25:49.000 I'm also showing that you can totally shed your chronic illnesses completely, forever.

02:25:55.000 Well, I can't show forever, but that you can have long-term shedding of your chronic illnesses.

02:26:00.000 That, to me, is a more threatening element of what I have to say than just like, these pills are dangerous.

02:26:05.000 You shouldn't take them.

02:26:06.000 I'm not saying that. 1.00

02:26:07.000 I'm saying you might have been told you're broken, that you have a mental illness for life.

02:26:11.000 But in fact, you know, like I have a woman who completed my online program, had such bad migraine headaches that she had to be on IV treatment.

02:26:20.000 She was treated by the top neurologist at Emory.

02:26:22.000 She was on multiple pharmaceuticals. 0.97

02:26:24.000 She was bed bound for two years.

02:26:26.000 OK, and she completed my program, which we talked about.

02:26:30.000 This is not rocket science.

02:26:31.000 OK, and she's totally symptom free. 0.99

02:26:34.000 Totally.

02:26:34.000 So that's pretty threatening, right?

02:26:37.000 To show you that, in fact, what you're told is a permanent problem you just have to deal with and live with with pharmaceutical medicine could be completely dissolved is a very threatening concept.

02:26:47.000 And I'm not the only one.

02:26:48.000 I mean, many functional medicine doctors and holistic healers are working to create awareness of this possibility.

02:26:56.000 But regardless, it was pretty weird that, you know, the book made the New York Times list, strangely, and there wasn't a mention of it in mainstream media for a year.

02:27:07.000 Not once.

02:27:08.000 Nobody wanted to have you on their show.

02:27:10.000 This is amazing.

02:27:11.000 Let's talk to her about this.

02:27:12.000 Not a negative review.

02:27:13.000 Not a single mention in mainstream media.

02:27:15.000 So the negative review, the problem with that is that you could refute the negative reviews and it also calls attention on it.

02:27:21.000 Let's see what her response is.

02:27:23.000 It's like they decided to ignore me, which I was totally cool with because I had a very chill year.

02:27:27.000 With your life insurance policy.

02:27:29.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:27:30.000 Just waiting, you know, to get my couple million to my kids.

02:27:34.000 But it's changing.

02:27:37.000 Like even in the past month or so, there's been like a more of a targeted effort and a couple of Allure and Cosmo and a couple of mainstream outlets have begun to suggest that I am, you know, a dangerous, reckless person who shames women who take meds.

02:27:56.000 They've said this in articles?

02:27:57.000 Yeah.

02:27:58.000 Yeah.

02:27:59.000 I don't want to give it the click energy.

02:28:02.000 Isn't that funny that like if you give advice that based on actual studies, actual medicine, give advice about, you know, like, hey, maybe it's not a good idea that you take these crazy medications where we don't exactly know why you're taking them.

02:28:15.000 We don't know exactly if these are the right medications for you.

02:28:18.000 They're testing them on you literally as you go along that you're shaming.

02:28:21.000 I'm not even saying maybe it's not a good idea.

02:28:23.000 I'm just saying, here's what the science says that you might not have been told, and here's what's additionally possible you should just at least know, okay?

02:28:29.000 And here's the social proof.

02:28:30.000 You know, interviews, I'm publishing four case reports as we speak in the peer-reviewed index medical literature, you know, so this is not like some random blog I wrote, okay?

02:28:41.000 So just know that that's possible and then make your decision.

02:28:44.000 And guess what?

02:28:44.000 If you're on meds and this sounds interesting to you, then I'm showing you there's a path.

02:28:50.000 To a new, you know, approach.

02:28:52.000 Right.

02:28:52.000 That's, you know, that's it.

02:28:54.000 But actually, you know, and I hate to even give it airwaves because it's just sort of ridiculous.

02:28:58.000 And I do believe a lot of it initiated with astroturfing.

02:29:01.000 But I'm being called an ableist.

02:29:04.000 Oh, that's my favorite.

02:29:05.000 I love that word.

02:29:06.000 I've never heard that word before.

02:29:07.000 It's wonderful.

02:29:07.000 It's one of the new ones the kids are using.

02:29:08.000 All these little snowflakes.

02:29:10.000 Good to know.

02:29:10.000 I love it.

02:29:11.000 So I'm shaming people who can't do what I'm able to do, including have a home birth, you know.

02:29:17.000 Ableist. 0.99

02:29:18.000 This has been around for a while.

02:29:20.000 You're white too.

02:29:22.000 I know. 0.83

02:29:23.000 You have white privilege.

02:29:24.000 You're a woman, it's not as bad?

02:29:26.000 White woman privilege is not real? 0.99

02:29:28.000 It is real.

02:29:29.000 It's totally real.

02:29:29.000 It certainly is.

02:29:30.000 It certainly is.

02:29:31.000 But you guys have to struggle with that a bit more.

02:29:34.000 Yes.

02:29:34.000 Perhaps.

02:29:35.000 Yeah, I'm a conqueror.

02:29:36.000 I'm a man.

02:29:37.000 Terrible person.

02:29:38.000 Done awful things throughout history.

02:29:40.000 Clearly.

02:29:40.000 All men are responsible for all terrible stuff.

02:29:42.000 Your bloodline.

02:29:44.000 Yeah, ableist is a wonderful term.

02:29:46.000 Do you ever use that, Jamie?

02:29:48.000 No.

02:29:48.000 Do you ever call anybody an ableist?

02:29:49.000 No one actually does.

02:29:50.000 Well, in college they do, and they do online.

02:29:53.000 Who knew?

02:29:54.000 I don't know where I've been that I never heard that term.

02:29:56.000 People are just...

02:29:56.000 It's too easy to get by.

02:29:57.000 It's too easy to eat.

02:29:59.000 It's too easy to survive.

02:30:00.000 There's not enough difficulty out there.

02:30:01.000 People go looking for insults and looking for things that are off.

02:30:06.000 Divisiveness.

02:30:06.000 Yeah.

02:30:07.000 There's a constant searching for outrage.

02:30:11.000 There's a quest for recreational outrage.

02:30:13.000 And people find things to be appalled at and then attack them and go nuts over it.

02:30:18.000 It's just...

02:30:18.000 It's a very strange time.

02:30:20.000 I think it's beautiful though.

02:30:22.000 I think it's all really good.

02:30:24.000 We're coming to grips with how preposterous we are.

02:30:27.000 And we're doing so in the middle of these embroiled battles over ideologies, over cultural expression. 0.99

02:30:34.000 There's some girls in Portland that are taking a rash of shit because they're selling burritos and they're white. 1.00

02:30:40.000 They made a burrito truck and people are going crazy. 1.00

02:30:43.000 They're trying to shut them down, shut them down.

02:30:46.000 Because they're not Mexican and they're selling burritos. 1.00

02:30:50.000 They're not pretending.

02:30:52.000 They're not putting shoe polish on and pretending.

02:30:55.000 They're not putting brownface on. 1.00

02:30:57.000 They're just fucking selling burritos. 1.00

02:31:00.000 It's so crazy. 1.00

02:31:01.000 Now you said that. 0.85

02:31:02.000 Critics, close white women's Portland burrito stand for cultural theft. 1.00

02:31:07.000 What the fuck, man? 1.00

02:31:08.000 They're burritos, you assholes. 1.00

02:31:10.000 Mexicans don't even eat burritos. 1.00

02:31:12.000 Yes, they do. 0.98

02:31:13.000 How dare you?

02:31:14.000 When you go to Mexico, how often do you eat burritos?

02:31:16.000 I've eaten burritos in Mexico.

02:31:19.000 Real Mexican food?

02:31:19.000 Yes.

02:31:20.000 I have had a real chicken burrito in Mexico and it was quite delicious.

02:31:24.000 I love Mexico.

02:31:25.000 I just don't understand why anybody thinks that there's something wrong with learning a style of cooking. 0.97

02:31:31.000 It's like I think you have cultural appropriation if you have a person who's pretending they're from Laos and they start talking with a fake accent and you go, hey man, you're from fucking Cleveland. 0.92

02:31:44.000 You're not even of Laos descent. 0.83

02:31:46.000 Like you do a 23andMe on you and you find out your family's from Finland. 1.00

02:31:50.000 Like, the fuck is wrong with you? 0.98

02:31:52.000 But there are people that do that and that is crazy, right? 0.99

02:31:55.000 But that's just deceptive.

02:31:57.000 This is not deceptive.

02:31:58.000 This is someone who likes making burritos.

02:31:59.000 They're making burritos. 1.00

02:32:01.000 And then these goofy white kids are fucking closing them down. 1.00

02:32:04.000 And that's what it is. 1.00

02:32:05.000 Cultural appropriation heroes just shouting out from the rooftop that you're wrong.

02:32:10.000 Right.

02:32:11.000 You're wrong.

02:32:11.000 That's it.

02:32:11.000 It's like you said.

02:32:12.000 We're just always looking for who to blame, who to be mad at, who to make sort of the persecutor of our felt wrongness.

02:32:20.000 It's that same issue.

02:32:21.000 It's so crazy.

02:32:22.000 No, it is a weird, it is a weird time.

02:32:24.000 And the trouble is, you know, that the more that we, this infighting is like in some ways a distraction from the greater issues that are like government overreach and these greater issues that are allowed to unfold while we're busy calling each other names.

02:32:41.000 Yeah, you're doing that on Twitter and the government's literally reading your emails while you're doing it.

02:32:45.000 Right.

02:32:45.000 And you're like, no, but we have to worry about this burrito stand.

02:32:48.000 Right, you think you're fighting a good fight.

02:32:50.000 You can't have tortillas.

02:32:52.000 You're not from here.

02:32:53.000 Like, what is wrong with people that never existed before?

02:32:58.000 Like, whatever.

02:32:59.000 Here's the thing.

02:33:00.000 Here's what's fascinating. 0.95

02:33:00.000 It only works if the people that you're supposedly culturally stealing from are brown. 0.95

02:33:07.000 If you try cooking French food and you're not a French descent, nobody gives a shit. 0.99

02:33:12.000 You could cook Italian food all day long and no one cares about cultural appropriation. 0.99

02:33:17.000 You could be a white woman from Switzerland who lives in New Jersey and runs an Italian restaurant and no one cares. 1.00

02:33:25.000 They won't care.

02:33:26.000 Well, arguably, they haven't been, like, oppressed, I guess, in the same way.

02:33:30.000 Well, they were at one point in time.

02:33:31.000 They just got through it.

02:33:32.000 Now you're getting technical.

02:33:33.000 You know, it's Mexican.

02:33:34.000 But, I mean, for real, I mean, that's literally the path of boxing in America was it was Jewish people, Italians, Irish. 0.78

02:33:41.000 It was the suppressed people, black folks. 1.00

02:33:43.000 It was always the people that were the most economically suppressed.

02:33:47.000 And then they were also, like, my grandparents came from Italy, and they experienced horrible racism back then, back in the early 1900s.

02:33:55.000 But by the time they integrated into society, like, being Italian isn't even thought of as being not white anymore.

02:34:02.000 That's not even interesting.

02:34:03.000 Yeah, but when my grandparents were kids, it was just like being Mexican. 1.00

02:34:07.000 It was the same kind of thing.

02:34:09.000 It was like you were treated like someone from somewhere else that they didn't want here.

02:34:13.000 They called them guinea wops and all these crazy slangs, horrible expressions that don't even mean anything anymore.

02:34:20.000 They're so ineffective now. 0.94

02:34:21.000 And our hope is, right, that one day it's going to get like that with Mexicans. 1.00

02:34:25.000 The same way it's like, you can't really mock someone from being from Holland. 0.99

02:34:28.000 No one gives a shit. 0.99

02:34:29.000 Like, you can say, oh, you're from Holland? 0.99

02:34:31.000 Like, yeah.

02:34:32.000 What about Guido, though?

02:34:34.000 It doesn't matter.

02:34:35.000 They call themselves Guidos.

02:34:37.000 I know, that's one of my favorite words.

02:34:38.000 People in my family, they call themselves guidos.

02:34:40.000 They'll call themselves guineas.

02:34:42.000 They'll call themselves...

02:34:43.000 And it's almost like a term of endearment.

02:34:45.000 No, it loses its power.

02:34:47.000 It's true.

02:34:47.000 It's totally lost its power because it's culturally acceptable to be Italian.

02:34:50.000 And then one day...

02:34:52.000 But the idea that these girls are stealing from Mexicans is where it's so crazy. 1.00

02:34:58.000 They're just selling burritos, folks.

02:34:59.000 It's just food.

02:35:00.000 It's just a certain way of preparing it.

02:35:02.000 It's not like they're pretending.

02:35:03.000 We invented this.

02:35:05.000 No one else did it.

02:35:06.000 It's a wrap. 0.96

02:35:07.000 The people who make wraps, those should be slapped. 1.00

02:35:09.000 That's not a wrap, motherfucker. 1.00

02:35:10.000 That's a burrito. 1.00

02:35:12.000 You're making a shitty burrito and you're calling it a wrap, right? 0.99

02:35:15.000 Gluten-free burrito. 0.99

02:35:16.000 Those are the real problem.

02:35:18.000 Those are the problem people.

02:35:19.000 They're calling it wraps.

02:35:21.000 Zatz looks like a tortilla. 0.92

02:35:22.000 No, no, no.

02:35:23.000 No.

02:35:24.000 A wrap.

02:35:25.000 What do they call it?

02:35:26.000 Did they call a wrap a tortilla?

02:35:28.000 They say it's a tortilla?

02:35:30.000 What do they call that outside of a wrap, right?

02:35:33.000 It was a co-opting.

02:35:34.000 It's like a co-opting.

02:35:35.000 Totally co-opting, right?

02:35:36.000 That's the real theft is wraps.

02:35:38.000 But it doesn't even taste good.

02:35:39.000 Like if those girls were just selling wraps, everybody would be like, oh, that's cool. 1.00

02:35:42.000 It's just a wrap.

02:35:43.000 They just mislabeled it.

02:35:45.000 As long as they don't have a Mexican flag anywhere or any like cartoon of a chili pepper.

02:35:51.000 Sombrero.

02:35:53.000 It's just, I really feel like this goes, I mean, it's a stretch, granted, but I really feel like this goes back to what we're talking about, is that people need difficulty in their life.

02:36:03.000 They really do.

02:36:04.000 And that way they don't seek out difficulty that's not real.

02:36:06.000 You're going to manufacture it.

02:36:07.000 Yeah.

02:36:07.000 Yeah, no, it's true.

02:36:08.000 I think that's one of the reasons why you're getting a lot of this from these college kids, where their tuition's being paid for, they don't have jobs, they're not competing in the real world, they're just operating on ideologies, and they're being taught by these knuckleheads that are just trying to keep their tenure, 0.92

02:36:26.000 and they're trying to spread the same sort of ideology that they had when they were in college, and they never really entered into the workforce in a lot of examples.

02:36:33.000 A lot of these people went from academia to teaching.

02:36:37.000 I mean, right in there, just embedded into the system.

02:36:40.000 Totally.

02:36:41.000 You know? 0.97

02:36:42.000 Hey ho, these racist teachers have got to go. 0.97

02:36:45.000 Right? 0.98

02:36:45.000 It's just, people are going crazy today. 0.98

02:36:47.000 And I think a lot of it has to do with the same thing.

02:36:49.000 I think it's this newfound ability to communicate, which is fantastic, and it's going to have its hiccups, and there's going to be some issues, and there's going to be some real co-opting of the system, like what you're experiencing, with trolls attacking an idea.

02:37:02.000 But overall, those ideas are spreading in a way that's It's unprecedented and impossible just a few decades ago.

02:37:09.000 Like, your ideas, spreading the way they have where I hear about them, and now, you know, you and I sit down and talk about this.

02:37:16.000 Millions of people are going to hear this conversation.

02:37:18.000 And this is unprecedented.

02:37:21.000 Like, this has never been available before.

02:37:23.000 So, all the bad stuff, you've got to take it with all the good stuff.

02:37:26.000 There's a light and a dark, 100%.

02:37:29.000 What you're expressing, what you're trying to get out to people, this is all new stuff.

02:37:35.000 No one was saying this 20 years ago.

02:37:37.000 Because we were all asleep.

02:37:40.000 This is Matrix talk.

02:37:41.000 This is more hippie talk that you would hate 20 years ago.

02:37:43.000 You'd be like, oh my god, I'm so crazy when I'm older.

02:37:46.000 But that's why it is a cool time because it's sort of like the democratization of information where if you want to learn about other perspectives on anything, you look it up, you know, and then you make your own decisions.

02:37:58.000 So it is a time where you have the potential to be an individual in ways that we're not honored in a more conformist, you know, controlled media environment.

02:38:09.000 I mean, the trouble is that many people are still, you know...

02:38:12.000 I still believe that mainstream media is telling them the truth.

02:38:16.000 That deconditioning is very challenging.

02:38:19.000 Yeah, that's a real problem.

02:38:21.000 I mean, I think even though the Trump stuff with all this fake news talk is so detrimental, ultimately it is like you're getting people, even if they realize that this guy's a knucklehead and he's wrong about a lot of stuff, they're at least challenging these ideas that these networks are only giving you the news. 0.98

02:38:40.000 I mean, Fox News It is a goddamn sexual assault paradise over there. 0.96

02:38:45.000 I mean, these guys just keep getting kicked out of Fox News over and over again. 0.99

02:38:50.000 There's all these sexual harassment allegations and people are resigning left and right, right?

02:38:55.000 Well, because of all that stuff, it makes you go, oh...

02:38:58.000 Oh, these guys are creeps.

02:38:59.000 Like, there's a lot of creeps even there.

02:39:01.000 Like when Brian Williams got busted lying. 1.00

02:39:03.000 And you're like, oh, that news guy's just like another asshole. 1.00

02:39:07.000 They just make shit up. 1.00

02:39:08.000 Like, just because he's saying the real news, sometimes, doesn't mean everything he says is true. 0.99

02:39:14.000 And there's no way to filter it.

02:39:16.000 So everybody has to question things now.

02:39:18.000 In a way that you never questioned during the Walter Cronkite era. 0.99

02:39:21.000 You know, when people were giving the news back when Ted Koppel was on the air, you weren't, like, is Ted Koppel full of shit? 0.98

02:39:27.000 Like, no one was saying that, you know? 0.99

02:39:30.000 Right? 1.00

02:39:31.000 But Brian Williams is clearly full of shit. 1.00

02:39:34.000 But that's why it's weirder now to follow mainstream media. 1.00

02:39:37.000 Because if you're not saying that, how do you have so much allegiance to the machine that you would never question it?

02:39:46.000 To me, that's surprising.

02:39:47.000 It's also that machine is the only vehicle for these pharmaceutical companies.

02:39:52.000 They have to sandwich those commercials in between...

02:39:55.000 That's right. 0.97

02:39:56.000 Whatever show you're watching, you know, 360, whatever the fuck it is, and this guy's... 0.97

02:40:01.000 It's every 10 minutes. 0.96

02:40:01.000 Yeah, and they just sandwich them in there, whereas you're not going to see those commercials, like, no one's going to read those drug ads on a podcast. 0.96

02:40:11.000 You're not going to say, okay, well, hey, been really nice talking to you, and I want to talk to you folks about Abilify.

02:40:17.000 Are you, right now, thinking about being suicidal and really want to cement those thoughts?

02:40:23.000 And solidify them and make action.

02:40:26.000 It's so not funny.

02:40:27.000 It's not.

02:40:28.000 You're right.

02:40:29.000 I shouldn't say it because I don't even know what I'm talking about.

02:40:31.000 You should be talking about this, not me.

02:40:33.000 But here I am.

02:40:35.000 What is this?

02:40:36.000 Abilify drug blame for compulsive gambling, eating, shopping, sex.

02:40:40.000 That's just life, bro.

02:40:42.000 How can you blame Abilify?

02:40:44.000 Here's one.

02:40:46.000 No, you can because of this impulsivity thing I'm telling you.

02:40:49.000 Yeah.

02:40:50.000 Whoa.

02:40:51.000 Oh, boy.

02:40:52.000 A gambling habit cost her between $1 million and $2 million in less than five years. 1.00

02:40:57.000 You just suck at gambling, lady. 1.00

02:40:59.000 Stop blaming drugs. 0.99

02:41:00.000 The woman had been living in Las Vegas since 1999, but she had never been tempted to gamble until she started taking the drug. 1.00

02:41:07.000 Get the fuck out of here. 0.99

02:41:08.000 That lady got a good lawyer. 1.00

02:41:10.000 She got a good lawyer, and she's crazy. 1.00

02:41:12.000 I got 200 people.

02:41:15.000 I want to take Abilify so I can get some of that cash.

02:41:19.000 There was a drug called Reequip. 0.87

02:41:23.000 And there was a man in Ireland that took this drug and said before the drug, he was a healthy heterosexual, and after he took the drug, he became gay and a gambling addict, and he would engage in risky sex, and he would meet men in chat rooms and have unprotected sex with them. 0.85

02:41:40.000 And then he got off the drug and was like, what did I do?

02:41:43.000 And he won the equivalent of U.S. somewhere in the neighborhood of $600,000 from GlaxoKlineSmith.

02:41:51.000 Hmm.

02:41:52.000 Yeah, here it is. 1.00

02:41:53.000 Man says Parkinson's drug made him addicted to gambling and gay sex. 0.99

02:41:57.000 What is that, from 2000 what? 0.93

02:41:58.000 What does it say up there?

02:41:59.000 Uh, 11. Yeah.

02:42:00.000 There's my memory.

02:42:01.000 That's what I remember. 1.00

02:42:02.000 I remember things that can turn me into a gay sex and gambling junkie. 0.99

02:42:06.000 That's important to know. 1.00

02:42:07.000 I'm like, hey, hey!

02:42:09.000 Meanwhile, what else works good on Parkinson's?

02:42:12.000 Pot! 0.97

02:42:13.000 Yeah, and pot doesn't do that. 1.00

02:42:16.000 Well, good.

02:42:17.000 It's crazy. 0.90

02:42:17.000 This guy sued the shit out of him and won. 0.90

02:42:19.000 That's what's crazy.

02:42:21.000 That's amazing that he won.

02:42:21.000 Because I believe it.

02:42:22.000 Well, what's crazy is it's one dude hopes for new drugs.

02:42:25.000 I love how they sandwich that in there.

02:42:26.000 Oh, my God.

02:42:27.000 As many as one million people in the United States have Parkinson's.

02:42:29.000 And there's some new stuff that doesn't turn.

02:42:31.000 There's probably ads on the side of them.

02:42:32.000 Oh, for sure.

02:42:33.000 Yeah.

02:42:33.000 I like how when you scroll down, the video keeps playing anyway.

02:42:37.000 Like, they put a little video, like, you can't escape the video.

02:42:40.000 It's always sitting in the corner, like, go ahead, press play.

02:42:43.000 Don't be tempted.

02:42:44.000 They have been doing this on the bottom, like, where usually you'll see, like, another story or similar stories, a sponsored story will pop in there.

02:42:51.000 You can't even tell it's sponsored, usually.

02:42:53.000 Well, you can now on CNN, they have a ton of those.

02:42:56.000 On a lot of websites, they have a ton of those.

02:42:58.000 Yeah, it's pretty fascinating.

02:42:59.000 And it's like, you know, you won't believe what they look like now.

02:43:02.000 And you're like, God, what do they look like now? 0.97

02:43:03.000 And then you have to go through, like, fucking 20 pages of what other people that look like shit now to get to this one person that you might not even, they might even be on that, you know? 0.99

02:43:14.000 Just totally bullshitting you. 0.99

02:43:15.000 Meanwhile, you wasted 10 minutes of your life. 0.98

02:43:17.000 You never get back.

02:43:17.000 Yeah, I mean, on Medscape and these, like, seemingly official medical websites, there are pharma ads that appear to be diagnostic quizzes, you know?

02:43:29.000 So, like, do you have depression?

02:43:31.000 And then you go take the quiz, and this is known, you know, has been exposed, 100% of people are identified, pretty much no matter what you click, you're identified as being a candidate for antidepressant.

02:43:42.000 Of course, right?

02:43:42.000 They're not like, dude, you're fine.

02:43:44.000 Go on with your life.

02:43:45.000 Go play Frisbee.

02:43:46.000 In this objective assessment, you're doing great.

02:43:48.000 You're doing great.

02:43:49.000 Oh my god, I'm so glad that I don't have to sell you drugs.

02:43:52.000 Right.

02:43:53.000 Wow.

02:43:54.000 So, what do you hope to really get into people's heads with this book and with all this information and what you've gone on in your journey?

02:44:06.000 If you had to like sum it up.

02:44:11.000 Well, it's sort of like when you know better, you do better.

02:44:15.000 It's like a Maya Angelou quote.

02:44:16.000 It's like one of my favorite quotes.

02:44:17.000 That's a great quote.

02:44:18.000 It is because there's no shaming in that, right?

02:44:20.000 This is as good as the fake Freud quote.

02:44:22.000 When you know better, you do better.

02:44:24.000 It's really good. 0.99

02:44:25.000 When Freud said the word asshole in a quote. 0.96

02:44:28.000 So with this information... 0.96

02:44:33.000 Is there something in you that's, like, excited about it or that says, like, hmm, yeah, there's something to that?

02:44:38.000 Because if there is, then you should know what's possible, right?

02:44:43.000 Because if you know what's possible, then you will naturally move towards that.

02:44:47.000 And the transformations that I have seen and continue to see, I mean, like, I cry thinking about it.

02:44:52.000 It's so deeply inspirational because it's a kind of human experience that is so redemptive.

02:44:57.000 It's like a real reclamation.

02:44:59.000 That is not possible through the pharmaceutical model, in my opinion.

02:45:02.000 I want to tell you a quick story about antibiotics because you brought this up earlier.

02:45:07.000 So I went to India recently, right?

02:45:11.000 You need some antibiotics when you get back?

02:45:13.000 No.

02:45:13.000 I don't take any pharmaceutical.

02:45:16.000 You don't take antibiotics ever?

02:45:18.000 What if you got an infection?

02:45:19.000 Like, what if you got staph?

02:45:20.000 Then I'll tell you exactly what would happen.

02:45:22.000 Right.

02:45:23.000 So I went to India.

02:45:24.000 I brought my little kit with me, right?

02:45:26.000 Knowing that there's like...

02:45:27.000 And honestly, like, I don't believe in germ theory in the classical sense.

02:45:32.000 And neither should anyone.

02:45:34.000 Germ theory is like, if you're exposed to a bad bug, then you get sick.

02:45:38.000 Right.

02:45:39.000 Exposure equals infection.

02:45:40.000 Right.

02:45:41.000 Right.

02:45:41.000 But, you know, Pester himself on his deathbed said that it was the terrain, not the bug.

02:45:47.000 So what's the terrain?

02:45:48.000 The terrain is the context.

02:45:50.000 The terrain is your body in your lifestyle and, you know, in your existence.

02:45:55.000 So that seems to be more relevant.

02:45:58.000 And then the discovery of the microbiome, like this inner ecology, has totally...

02:46:02.000 We got to go back to the drawing board completely in medicine because we didn't know that.

02:46:07.000 How recent is the discovery of the microbiome?

02:46:09.000 It's about like 20 years.

02:46:10.000 20 years.

02:46:11.000 In 20 years, the science of probiotics and understanding the importance of consuming fermented foods.

02:46:20.000 Exactly.

02:46:20.000 And, you know, super infections through antibiotic overuse and the fact that you can't ever get out from under this idea of just killing the bad bugs.

02:46:28.000 Right.

02:46:29.000 It doesn't...

02:46:29.000 And so the more you sanitize and you use bleach and alcohol and Purell and all that stuff, you're actually distorting things and you're making it more likely for people to develop what are called nosocomial illnesses or infections, which is hospital-induced infections, right?

02:46:44.000 The hospital is a sick environment, in part because we have a wrong idea.

02:47:13.000 Colloidal silver?

02:47:13.000 Do you know what that is?

02:47:14.000 Is that real?

02:47:15.000 That's that stuff that you like, you lose like little electrodes, you stick the water, the stick the silver in the water.

02:47:21.000 Yeah, or you just rely on people to make that for you in a responsible way.

02:47:26.000 Didn't that turn some dude blue?

02:47:27.000 Blue, yeah, yeah.

02:47:28.000 Did that really work?

02:47:28.000 And it can.

02:47:29.000 It can do that.

02:47:30.000 And you're taking that risk?

02:47:31.000 If you have the wrong, if you're using large particles.

02:47:33.000 Would you be cool if you looked like Avatar?

02:47:34.000 Like an Avatar lady? 0.98

02:47:35.000 Would you be cool with that?

02:47:36.000 I mean, I think it could work.

02:47:37.000 What do you think?

02:47:37.000 I think it would undermine my credibility.

02:47:39.000 I don't know, it'd be freaky. 0.99

02:47:40.000 I'm super healthy, but I'm blue as fuck. 0.99

02:47:42.000 Like... 1.00

02:47:44.000 That poor guy, he died.

02:47:45.000 Oh my gosh.

02:47:46.000 Yeah, and that's irreversible apparently.

02:47:48.000 Yeah, that's not what we're going for.

02:47:50.000 That's why as a DIY it may not be the best idea.

02:47:54.000 So what is colloidal silver?

02:47:56.000 What's the benefits of colloidal silver?

02:47:57.000 Okay, so like herbal, like botanical, you know, sort of like...

02:48:03.000 Yeah.

02:48:26.000 So why would you ever bother with the risks of antibiotics, which are legion?

02:48:31.000 I mean, they're massive risks.

02:48:32.000 So what herbal botanicals are specifically efficient?

02:48:35.000 Things like oil of oregano, for example.

02:48:37.000 That's really good for you, right?

02:48:38.000 One of the better studied ones.

02:48:39.000 Grapefruit seed extract.

02:48:41.000 Pau d'Arco.

02:48:42.000 There's a whole number of them.

02:48:44.000 Goldenseal echinacea that have these properties.

02:48:46.000 And a lot of supplements just sort of put them all together.

02:48:50.000 Right.

02:48:51.000 Okay, so...

02:48:52.000 I'm making this story too long.

02:48:53.000 So I go to India.

02:48:54.000 I bring all this stuff, right?

02:48:55.000 And one of the women... 1.00

02:48:56.000 It's like a Kundalini trip.

02:48:57.000 One of the women gets really sick. 0.70

02:49:00.000 Like projectile vomiting and like screaming in pain.

02:49:04.000 Like bad scene.

02:49:05.000 I laughed right before you got to screaming in pain.

02:49:08.000 Sorry.

02:49:08.000 I thought she was just puking.

02:49:10.000 No, it was...

02:49:11.000 She was super sick.

02:49:12.000 And even the Indian dude who was sort of like our chaperone in a way, like a friend of the woman who led the trip, was like, oh, we got to bring her to...

02:49:20.000 The hospital.

02:49:21.000 The hospital.

02:49:21.000 And you're like, no, I've got to give her colloidal silver.

02:49:23.000 And I was like, give me 12 hours.

02:49:25.000 Really?

02:49:26.000 I looked her in the eyes and I was like, give me 12 hours.

02:49:28.000 And I know her well enough to know that she would be down for this approach.

02:49:34.000 Okay.

02:49:35.000 And she was not afraid.

02:49:37.000 Important detail.

02:49:38.000 She's not afraid.

02:49:39.000 She was super uncomfortable, but she wasn't like freaking out and like, oh my God, I'm going to die.

02:49:44.000 She just thought she was sick.

02:49:45.000 Yeah.

02:49:46.000 Which is true.

02:49:47.000 So in 12 hours, she was completely well.

02:49:52.000 We were in the car for a two-hour trip going to like another part of northern India.

02:49:56.000 And how did you cure or treat her?

02:49:59.000 She may very well have done it herself. 0.97

02:50:00.000 And the ritual of these supplements and bentonite clay and whatever could have just been an accessory.

02:50:05.000 Who knows?

02:50:06.000 The truth is that if she had taken antibiotics, which she never did, If she had taken them reflexively, she probably would have been sick longer, and she then ultimately, when she got better, would have attributed it to the antibiotics, right?

02:50:20.000 So she never would have had the opportunity to just see what her body's capable of.

02:50:24.000 So we make these assumptions about pharmaceuticals in the absence of any baseline evidence, information, or even experience to help us understand what our bodies are capable of.

02:50:35.000 But what if someone catches one of these antibiotic-resistant, very aggressive strains like MRSA? I mean, you know, so my partner has a website called GreenMedInfo.com, right?

02:50:50.000 What is it called?

02:50:51.000 GreenMedInfo.com.

02:50:52.000 GreenMedInfo.com.

02:50:53.000 And he catalogs all of the data from PubMed.gov on these natural substances, evidence that shows that something like garlic Because there's a study he put up on MRSA, and I think it was like garlic and maybe honey or something you would laugh at,

02:51:09.000 right?

02:51:10.000 Dr. Rhonda Patrick went through this, and she talked about it on the podcast.

02:51:12.000 She had a persistent staph infection that would not go away, and she treated it with garlic in a topical form, and it cured it when nothing else would.

02:51:23.000 And she had gone through this host of antibiotics that really wrecked her gut biome, and she was... 0.86

02:51:29.000 Really fucked up for like a year because of it. 0.91

02:51:31.000 And she treated it with a topical application of garlic, which is crazy. 0.97

02:51:35.000 And it sounds crazy until you actually learn that you wouldn't know that there's actually science to support that.

02:51:41.000 Yeah.

02:51:41.000 So there's a ton of science to support natural medicine.

02:51:44.000 I don't know who funds these studies.

02:51:45.000 It's crazy that they're even done because there certainly isn't pharma money behind them.

02:51:49.000 But they are done.

02:52:09.000 Then you'll make different decisions for yourself in the future.

02:52:11.000 But you have to have like that woman will probably make different decisions for herself in the future because now she trusts her body like just a little bit more. 1.00

02:52:19.000 You know, she's that much less afraid of all of the horror stories.

02:52:24.000 The fear mongering is the greatest marketing device, you know, employed by the industry is scaring you into what if you don't do it?

02:52:34.000 But aren't there a bunch of people that when they do catch MRSA or something like that and then get devastated, the right move is to get on an IV antibiotic.

02:52:46.000 Isn't that sometimes the case?

02:52:47.000 You just told me a story where that's not true.

02:52:51.000 Well, I told you a story.

02:52:52.000 Okay, so then...

02:52:54.000 But it's one, but it's one, and she had a topical issue.

02:52:57.000 But if it's one, and you're the one, then that's important information for yourself.

02:53:03.000 It certainly is.

02:53:04.000 I mean, antibiotics...

02:53:04.000 For that one, but I mean, don't they serve a purpose in some function, sometimes?

02:53:08.000 I mean, you don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, right?

02:53:11.000 I mean, if someone has some rampant, aggressive infection, a bacterial infection...

02:53:16.000 Listen, if we only used antibiotics for true life or death emergencies, we would have a very different situation on our hands than what we have now, which is a combination of, you know, devastating our ecosystem, you know, making people gravely ill because they have very serious and totally unpredictable side effects,

02:53:35.000 including long-term neurologic side effects, you know, What's even going on with our livestock?

02:53:43.000 We are in a mess with our worship of this idea of...

02:53:47.000 Do you know what antibiotic means?

02:53:48.000 It means against life.

02:53:50.000 Literally, there's something wrong-headed about that mentality.

02:53:53.000 And so it comes back to philosophy.

02:53:55.000 If you want to believe in war, you want to war against your body, you want to war against and blame all the bad people who do all these bad things, and you want to lock them up in prisons, and you want to hate the... 0.91

02:54:07.000 You know, Arabs and terrorists. 1.00

02:54:10.000 There's that hippie talk again, lady. 0.97

02:54:11.000 But if that's your general vibe, then it's going to make sense to take medications like that for you.

02:54:17.000 But I, you know, have plenty of colleagues and myself, we have a different philosophy.

02:54:22.000 So that's why it comes down to, it's a religion.

02:54:25.000 You know, it really comes down to your belief system.

02:54:27.000 So your philosophy is improve the health of the gut biome, take in natural antibiotics, things like garlic, things like oregano oil, things that are...

02:54:37.000 Work with nature, yeah.

02:54:38.000 Right.

02:54:39.000 Get back to the continuum.

02:54:41.000 There's this notion that there's a path we're meant to walk, where we...

02:54:47.000 Sort of follow what our ancestors sort of set us up for.

02:54:52.000 And we've strayed from it big time.

02:54:54.000 And we're, in some ways, being reminded, you know, that we can't go too much farther without, like, struggling pretty seriously.

02:55:03.000 One of the big points that you just made, which is really huge, is that if we only used antibiotics when necessary in life or death situations, we wouldn't have the issues that we have right now with livestock, with people's health.

02:55:15.000 And people take Z-packs like it's going out of style.

02:55:18.000 I mean, they take them like they take Tylenol for a headache.

02:55:21.000 I know so many people that take antibiotics.

02:55:23.000 They just throw them down.

02:55:24.000 Oh, I feel so much better.

02:55:26.000 I took a Z-Pak. 0.93

02:55:27.000 You might feel better because you were going to feel better anyway.

02:55:30.000 And the Z-Pak, you just threw on top of the mix and decided that that was what was taking you over the top. 1.00

02:55:35.000 That's right.

02:55:36.000 Meanwhile, it's like in the water supply now.

02:55:38.000 Is it?

02:55:38.000 Z-packs?

02:55:39.000 But it's like microscopic levels that you can't really, they're not psychoactive, right?

02:55:44.000 Isn't it?

02:55:44.000 There was just something I put on social media.

02:55:47.000 It was like studying fish that are exposed to antidepressants through water and they became like more aggressive.

02:55:57.000 Wow.

02:55:57.000 It was something like, you know, fish aren't made happier.

02:56:00.000 But the point is that antidepressants are just in the water supply now.

02:56:03.000 Yeah.

02:56:04.000 Pharmaceutical products.

02:56:05.000 Apparently in dosages relevant to the clinical expression of fish behavior.

02:56:09.000 I don't know.

02:56:11.000 Jesus Christ.

02:56:12.000 Yeah.

02:56:12.000 I mean, there's no free lunch.

02:56:14.000 There's no free lunch with pharma, I think.

02:56:16.000 But if you're into fishing, that's good because you want fish to be aggressive.

02:56:19.000 I mean, maybe they don't want to be aggressive. 0.99

02:56:20.000 I don't give a fuck what they want. 0.99

02:56:22.000 They're peace-loving. 0.99

02:56:24.000 They want to just chill.

02:56:25.000 I've never seen one.

02:56:26.000 They're trying to chill.

02:56:27.000 Fish are just eating things.

02:56:28.000 Mostly other fish. 1.00

02:56:29.000 They're a bunch of goddamn cannibals. 1.00

02:56:31.000 All of them. 1.00

02:56:33.000 Deep thoughts.

02:56:34.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:56:35.000 Silly thoughts. 0.98

02:56:36.000 Thanks for indulging those, by the way. 0.93

02:56:38.000 And thanks for coming on here.

02:56:39.000 I really appreciate it.

02:56:40.000 We just had three hours.

02:56:41.000 It was fun.

02:56:42.000 Wow.

02:56:43.000 That's quite an attention span.

02:56:44.000 So you do not need Adderall.

02:56:46.000 You're doing just great.

02:56:47.000 No, I'm scared of Adderall.

02:56:49.000 I had two cups of coffee, though.

02:56:50.000 But if I had Adderall, I just don't...

02:56:53.000 I want to try it one day, but I'm terrified of it.

02:56:56.000 A Canadian study just came out that if you take a stimulant, you're 13 times more likely to be prescribed an antipsychotic and four times more likely to be prescribed an antidepressant.

02:57:06.000 But they're Canadian.

02:57:06.000 They're not even like regular people.

02:57:08.000 They're a totally different kind of person.

02:57:09.000 That's true.

02:57:09.000 It's very important.

02:57:10.000 It's super important.

02:57:12.000 Confounding variable.

02:57:13.000 They're from the woods.

02:57:14.000 They're forest folks.

02:57:16.000 They talk weird.

02:57:16.000 I know.

02:57:18.000 All right, Kelly.

02:57:19.000 So one more time, tell people what is the name of your book, where you can get it.

02:57:23.000 I'm sure you're going to get a lot of positive and negative.

02:57:26.000 Stay offline for a couple of days.

02:57:29.000 I thought you had my back.

02:57:30.000 I do have your back.

02:57:31.000 I'm just telling you.

02:57:32.000 I don't want you to get hit with the trolls.

02:57:35.000 No, listen.

02:57:37.000 First of all, it's important.

02:57:38.000 It's my disclaimer that I'm not here to tell anyone what to do.

02:57:42.000 Right.

02:57:42.000 Okay?

02:57:43.000 It's just about informed consent.

02:57:45.000 And if you know all the information, you want to continue making your choice, do your thing.

02:57:48.000 But I do believe people are entitled to all of the information.

02:57:51.000 And I didn't know about it when I was prescribing.

02:57:53.000 So I carry that charge.

02:57:56.000 So my book is called A Mind of Your Own.

02:58:00.000 And the rest of my nonsense is on my website.

02:58:03.000 It's just kellybroganmd.com.

02:58:05.000 All right.

02:58:06.000 Beautiful.

02:58:07.000 Thank you.

02:58:07.000 I really enjoyed this conversation.

02:58:08.000 Thank you.

02:58:08.000 It was a total pleasure.

02:58:09.000 All right, my friends.

02:58:10.000 That's it.

02:58:11.000 We'll be back tomorrow with hilarious Andrew Santino. 1.00

02:58:14.000 So until then, get off those pills, you fucks. 1.00

02:58:19.000 Or don't. 1.00

02:58:20.000 Or don't.

02:58:21.000 Take more.

The Joe Rogan Experience - May 31, 2017

Joe Rogan Experience #968 - Kelly Brogan

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