The Joe Rogan Experience - September 02, 2026


JRE MMA Show #185 with Ethyn Ewing


Episode Stats


Length

2 hours and 36 minutes

Words per minute

195.53

Word count

30,575

Sentence count

2,886


Transcript

Transcripts from "The Joe Rogan Experience" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
00:00:02.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.
00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
00:00:08.000 My man, good to see you.
00:00:10.000 Good to be here.
00:00:14.000 I like your shirt.
00:00:15.000 I appreciate it.
00:00:16.000 Professor Finesser, is that your Professor Finesser line?
00:00:19.000 This is one of my designs of my Professor Finesser line.
00:00:23.000 Got the cross guard there.
00:00:24.000 I like it.
00:00:25.000 That's dope.
00:00:26.000 We've got a couple different symbols.
00:00:28.000 Something that I'm building up.
00:00:29.000 I want to get out to the people.
00:00:30.000 It's a cool nickname.
00:00:33.000 It's unique for sure.
00:00:35.000 It came about a funny way, but I like it.
00:00:38.000 The mantra that it brings to the fight game and to who I am is perfect.
00:00:43.000 Well, it's finesse, and you fight with a lot of finesse.
00:00:47.000 So we should start from your UFC debut because that was when you really burst onto the scene.
00:00:53.000 You fought this guy, Malcolm Wellmaker, who's a killer, vicious knockout puncher, and had a ton of hype behind him because of his performance.
00:01:02.000 Was it the contender series where we had the big performance?
00:01:05.000 Yeah.
00:01:05.000 It was all three of them.
00:01:06.000 Yeah.
00:01:06.000 Contender Series, you knocked that dude out flat.
00:01:08.000 And then I don't remember who it was second, but then it was Chris Mutino, the third one that he knocked out like that.
00:01:15.000 And you put on a show, man, and nobody had heard of you.
00:01:19.000 And that's one of the craziest things about this sport there can be a guy like you that's learning and growing in the shadows.
00:01:26.000 And then they get the call, and on, I think it was two days' notice.
00:01:31.000 Yeah.
00:01:32.000 So two days' notice, you fought above your weight because you're a bantam weight normally, and you fought at featherweight.
00:01:38.000 And, dude, you just, it wasn't just that you fought a guy who was this vicious striker.
00:01:44.000 It was the calmness and the technique and the smoothness of it all that was so impressive.
00:01:49.000 And I was like, this guy's different.
00:01:51.000 Like, the way you fight is very intelligent.
00:01:54.000 And I love that.
00:01:55.000 I love watching a guy who's just all technique and movement.
00:02:00.000 And you're the epitome of that.
00:02:03.000 I appreciate it.
00:02:04.000 That's something I pride myself on.
00:02:06.000 That's, I think.
00:02:09.000 Maybe it's because I've delved into more of a boxing realm with perfecting the striking and really focusing on that technical aspect, that style.
00:02:20.000 But yeah, to me, to watch guys go in there and just brawl it out and say, you know, let's see who can take more punches before the other guy drops is just silly to me.
00:02:32.000 It's like you said, I like to fight with finesse, I like to hit and not get hit, and champions don't take return fire.
00:02:38.000 So, I hope to have a lot of longevity with this game, and yeah, that's why I fight that way.
00:02:44.000 That is the formula for longevity.
00:02:46.000 I was having a conversation with Fedor, the guy who's sitting next to us, who's one of the best pool players in the world, and he's getting.
00:02:53.000 We just got back from Ways to Well, so shout out to Brigham and all the people at Ways to Well for taking care of us.
00:02:58.000 But he and I were talking about fighters, and it's very similar to, I think, everything, whether it's pool or golf, and there's the people that really focus on technology.
00:03:11.000 And fundamentals and really objectively look at what they're doing and refine it.
00:03:18.000 And we were talking about guys who just stand in front of each other and blast each other.
00:03:21.000 I'm like, look, the crowd will cheer.
00:03:24.000 They will love to see you, but your career will be shorter and the end will be bad.
00:03:29.000 The end will be bad.
00:03:31.000 And then you'll probably fight past the time where you should and no one's going to stop you.
00:03:37.000 Maybe you have one or two close friends that'll tell you when you're going to hang them up.
00:03:41.000 But a lot of coaches let guys fight.
00:03:43.000 Way too long, and I think the organization lets guys fight way too long.
00:03:47.000 There's a few guys that, in the past at least, I've seen them on the lineup in an upcoming fight.
00:03:52.000 I'm like, oh god, and then I see who he's fighting, I'm like, oh god, yeah, like I don't want to see this guy take any more punishment.
00:03:58.000 I don't, you know, enough is enough.
00:04:00.000 And those styles of just face first, just attacking, boy, the audience loves you.
00:04:06.000 And that's a trap.
00:04:07.000 That is a real trap.
00:04:07.000 Right.
00:04:09.000 I mean, 100%.
00:04:09.000 Yeah.
00:04:11.000 And I think that's, it's almost a little frustrating that the general public gives that kind of energy to that kind of a match.
00:04:20.000 Sure, I get it.
00:04:20.000 It's exciting.
00:04:21.000 You want to see blood spilled.
00:04:22.000 Like, people just really enjoy the chaos of all that and all the movement and the energy that goes into it.
00:04:27.000 But, Yeah, you're foregoing that whole technical aspect, like the perfection of controlling the dance from the beginning to the end and everything in between.
00:04:39.000 And it's almost just like an educated street brawl.
00:04:41.000 You're getting in there and just swinging and going crazy.
00:04:44.000 And to me, that's not what martial arts is.
00:04:45.000 I mean, it literally is the chase of perfection to it, of the hit and don't get hit.
00:04:54.000 That is the art of boxing, but the art of striking and martial arts.
00:04:58.000 You want to be.
00:05:00.000 Yeah, near perfect in the way you engage in this is land the damage and be able to cut those angles, move your head, pull out the distance, and not take any of that in return.
00:05:12.000 And, yeah, a lot of guys get cheered on initially.
00:05:17.000 And so it's unfortunate that maybe it's not unfortunate, but you just see it a lot that, yeah, those guys get hyped up off the beginning, and then all the other things happen, like you said.
00:05:26.000 Well, I mean, look, they are exciting.
00:05:28.000 I love when guys fight like that because it's just crazy to watch.
00:05:31.000 But, I have to set aside the rational part of my brain that says this is not smart.
00:05:36.000 It's not a good thing for them.
00:05:37.000 Right.
00:05:38.000 And there's no future in this.
00:05:40.000 Eventually, it's going to catch up to you.
00:05:41.000 Yeah.
00:05:42.000 I mean, if I watch these guys, you know, get after it, like Roman Puga versus his opponent on the Dana White Continue Series this last Tuesday, I believe it was.
00:05:42.000 No, for sure.
00:05:50.000 Oh, yeah.
00:05:50.000 Dude, I mean, I've trained with Roman a little bit here and there.
00:05:50.000 That was crazy.
00:05:53.000 He's from the same area as me.
00:05:55.000 And yeah, the guy's very skillful.
00:05:58.000 But at the end of the day, both those guys walked out of there just busted up.
00:06:01.000 I mean, they went straight to the hospital.
00:06:02.000 And it's fantastic to watch.
00:06:04.000 But from a fighter's perspective, at least from someone who's engaging in this on the same level as they are, yeah, I don't know.
00:06:12.000 That's why I like a little bit more of that precise style with the boxing specifically, I guess.
00:06:18.000 I've really drawn a lot of aspects from it.
00:06:21.000 Oh, for sure.
00:06:22.000 I mean, there's an art to a fighter that fights with style and a fighter that fights with finesse.
00:06:30.000 Like, I always go to Izzy in his prime.
00:06:33.000 Adesanya.
00:06:34.000 In his prime, when he was just styling on dudes, I mean, it was a beautiful thing to watch.
00:06:42.000 It was like a dance.
00:06:43.000 It was almost like he was coordinating them.
00:06:46.000 You know, he was moving them into his strikes, and everything was like feints.
00:06:50.000 They were all like very specific to gauge reactions.
00:06:53.000 And he'd put it all into the computer, and the next thing you know, he's tuning you up.
00:06:58.000 Right.
00:06:59.000 Yeah.
00:06:59.000 I mean, he's dancing his way out into the octagon, and then he's dancing in there, you know?
00:07:04.000 Yeah.
00:07:05.000 Yeah.
00:07:05.000 It's.
00:07:07.000 And I think the other thing that the general public doesn't understand about this game is that it's a smart man's game.
00:07:12.000 It's not a tough man's game.
00:07:12.000 Yes.
00:07:14.000 Well, that's one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you because I've seen a lot of your quotes online.
00:07:18.000 I've seen you talk.
00:07:19.000 You're obviously a thoughtful person.
00:07:21.000 And I think you have to be to have that kind of a style because it does take a lot of thinking.
00:07:26.000 It takes a lot of, like, what you're doing in there by constantly overloading your opponent's nervous system with movement and constant counters and being, like, right out of range, but then right in range and then right out of range.
00:07:41.000 It's a lot of intelligence involved in that.
00:07:43.000 And for someone like me who really loves the art of it, I love watching a guy like you fight because I really wish young fighters would emulate people like you.
00:07:51.000 Young fighters would see a guy like that, like, that's what I want to fight like.
00:07:55.000 I don't want to be this guy who goes in there and the end of my career, my face is just a roadmap of scars and I got CTE.
00:08:01.000 But boy, people remember back in the day when I knocked that guy out or when we had this fight of the night.
00:08:07.000 Yeah.
00:08:08.000 Yeah.
00:08:09.000 And it's taken a lot of experience, a lot of growth, a lot of seeing different things because when I was a wrestler, it was the Iowa style of wrestling that I emulated and that I hope to emulate, which is just get in your face, break you down, break your spirit.
00:08:26.000 Break you physically, just completely wipe you out with just outstanding pressure, you know?
00:08:31.000 And I think I suffered with the finesse, with a little bit of the technicality of setting things up and being smooth because I was just clubbing on your head, snapping people down, going, going, going.
00:08:42.000 And I refined that.
00:08:44.000 I've pulled back from that almost too much, I would say, to where if I'm striking with someone, I don't even want to engage in like a battle of physicality.
00:08:53.000 These guys try to push and move and get up, and I'm like, you know, I'll sit and I'll dance and I'll roll up and I'll, I'll, Shut them down real quick and I'm steering them off and I'm throwing really quick and they try to get physical where they're really trying to make it, you know, a high pace and just more physical.
00:09:10.000 I don't want to engage with that at all.
00:09:12.000 I want to steer from beginning to the end.
00:09:14.000 I want to keep my heart rate as low as possible.
00:09:17.000 I want to land shots and then I want to be back to sitting and, like you said, covering a distance, controlling everything where I can sit, I can take my breath and I can see what's coming next and then I can move accordingly.
00:09:29.000 And so, you know, after being out for a little bit of time, I'm now even elevated to another greater extent in my own mind that I'm now starting to combine the two things.
00:09:42.000 To where before I wouldn't say I shied away from it.
00:09:45.000 I'm a tough guy.
00:09:46.000 If we want to get physical and if it needs to go to that, I'm there all day.
00:09:50.000 Don't get me wrong with that.
00:09:51.000 But I'm finding that middle ground where I was too much of that Iowa style without the finesse.
00:10:03.000 Trying to be all skillful, all finesse, dance around the Muhammad Ali shuffle, throw that flicker jab, be out of range, you know, and not want to engage in the physicality too much.
00:10:13.000 And now I've elevated once again to where I'm finding that perfect middle ground that, you know, I'm letting my ego go in the gym to where if we do get into that physicality or someone gets me with something, if it doesn't look perfect, I'm not sitting there thinking, oh, I need to look perfect and avoid these things.
00:10:28.000 Now I'm just sending it and getting after it.
00:10:30.000 So, yeah, it's an ever evolving game.
00:10:33.000 And I'm just getting better.
00:10:35.000 All the time with everything.
00:10:36.000 So you'll never see me go in there and brawl anybody, but you'll see less hesitation.
00:10:41.000 You'll see more precise shots, and then all the other finesse will always be there.
00:10:46.000 Well, it is a constant work in progress, right?
00:10:48.000 And I think that's one of the more interesting things about MMA is that you see a fighter when they first start fighting in the UFC, and then you see as fights go on, they get more fights, they get more confidence, they get more experience, and they also get significantly better.
00:11:03.000 You know, it's kind of rare that you see athletes in a sport, generally speaking, When they get to a certain professional level, they're kind of already at their peak.
00:11:13.000 And they might get a little better, but in MMA in particular, you see dramatic improvement in fighters over the course of four or five years, especially if they have good management and good training.
00:11:24.000 And one of the things that you're talking about is like letting your ego go in the gym.
00:11:27.000 That is so important.
00:11:29.000 It's so important to recognize that training is for learning.
00:11:33.000 You're not trying to win every training session, you're not trying to win fights.
00:11:35.000 You're trying to get better at winning actual fights.
00:11:38.000 And sometimes getting better at winning actual fights is addressing.
00:11:41.000 Whatever weird weaknesses or weird places where you're not as comfortable and getting comfortable there.
00:11:47.000 And the best way to do that is just force yourself in those situations.
00:11:51.000 It's hard to do, though, because guys want to be dominant.
00:11:51.000 Yeah, 100%.
00:11:54.000 You don't want to lose a training session.
00:11:56.000 You don't want to give this guy that you're sparring with the impression that he can kick your ass.
00:12:02.000 So you want to get it back on him, but sometimes it's smart to not.
00:12:05.000 Yeah, 100%.
00:12:06.000 I mean, I'm over there.
00:12:08.000 The Rotolo brothers are training over there at CSW with Eric Paulson right now.
00:12:13.000 Those guys are phenomenal.
00:12:16.000 Yeah, they're the best in the world at what they do.
00:12:18.000 They're so fun to watch.
00:12:20.000 Those guys could put jujitsu on the map.
00:12:22.000 Oh, yeah.
00:12:22.000 Because the Rotolo brothers, when they do jujitsu, it is like this.
00:12:27.000 Chaotic, exciting, like very kinetic, very technical path to your neck.
00:12:35.000 Right.
00:12:35.000 You know, that's what it is.
00:12:36.000 It's just this constant path to your neck.
00:12:38.000 Dude, and they got these monkey arms that it can just wrap around your neck and get that darst choke from anywhere, man.
00:12:44.000 It's ridiculous.
00:12:45.000 Long arms are awesome.
00:12:46.000 Long arms are such an advantage.
00:12:48.000 Like Hodger Gracie had that.
00:12:49.000 Yeah.
00:12:49.000 A lot of guys have that.
00:12:50.000 A lot of like the best darst guys.
00:12:52.000 Hamzad has that.
00:12:53.000 Right.
00:12:53.000 Those long arm guys.
00:12:55.000 Yeah.
00:12:55.000 Fuck, man.
00:12:56.000 And then, like you said, like their ability to.
00:12:59.000 They almost like.
00:13:00.000 Enforce the chaos because that's where they thrive at, you know.
00:13:03.000 Yes, all that scramble situation.
00:13:06.000 They're running, doing crazy jumps, like crazy sweep setups.
00:13:10.000 Uh, was it Kate or Ty?
00:13:12.000 I think I'm gonna say it was Ty when he ran and he bounced off the cage or the ropes.
00:13:17.000 He runs back in and double legs, like they do, like it's like a WWE match, you know, like they're like thriving off of that chaotic energy.
00:13:23.000 Scrambles, yeah, they're so good in scrambles, you know, and it's really interesting watching it.
00:13:29.000 Is it Ty that's doing one FC that is doing MMA fights now?
00:13:33.000 They're both fighting, they're both fighting, huh?
00:13:35.000 And that's it's going to be exciting to have those guys enter into the UFC someday.
00:13:40.000 Hopefully, they will.
00:13:41.000 Yeah.
00:13:42.000 For sure.
00:13:43.000 They're just freak athletes.
00:13:45.000 You know, it's something that they've been around since they were super, super young.
00:13:50.000 And yeah, I mean, even their striking, you know, it's not super technical quite yet.
00:13:57.000 They're very brand new in it, but they're just, they got long reach.
00:14:00.000 They're very methodical.
00:14:01.000 They're athletic.
00:14:02.000 They understand distances from the jiu jitsu world of setting up takedowns and, you know, closing that distance.
00:14:08.000 So, um, But, yeah, what I was saying is like going with that kind of a guy, it's like the last thing I want to do is engage in like a grappling position with them in the jiu jitsu or in the MMA.
00:14:21.000 And, but it's like, yeah, the more I do that, I'm only going to get better at doing that kind of stuff, you know?
00:14:27.000 100%.
00:14:27.000 Kill the ego, engage full head on into what you're bad at.
00:14:31.000 That's the only way to get good at anything.
00:14:33.000 Another great thing about those guys is they're totally natural.
00:14:36.000 And in the jiu jitsu world, that's rare.
00:14:38.000 Right.
00:14:39.000 That's really rare.
00:14:40.000 Jiu jitsu is a Dirty sport, man.
00:14:42.000 Yeah.
00:14:43.000 Or, you know, I mean, is it dirty if everyone's doing it?
00:14:45.000 No.
00:14:46.000 Let me say it this way it's an enhanced sport.
00:14:48.000 Right.
00:14:49.000 For the most part, the elite guys are on some Brazilian supplements.
00:14:53.000 Yeah.
00:14:54.000 It's legal, but they're all doing it.
00:14:56.000 Yeah.
00:14:56.000 They're all juiced up.
00:14:57.000 So, I mean, it's kind of legal.
00:14:59.000 Like, Abu Dhabi doesn't test.
00:15:01.000 A lot of places don't test.
00:15:02.000 Right.
00:15:02.000 So it's like, and you see these guys, there's no way.
00:15:06.000 Some of them.
00:15:07.000 And, you know, kudos to guys like Gordon, like Gordon Ryan, who talks very openly about it.
00:15:11.000 He's like, everybody's on.
00:15:13.000 Performance enhancing drugs.
00:15:14.000 Why would not be on performance enhancing drugs?
00:15:16.000 My goal is to be the absolute best that I could be, period.
00:15:20.000 And the idea that the only reason why he's so good is because of steroids is also equally ridiculous because when he was younger and when he was much smaller, he was winning tournaments left and right and beating world champions.
00:15:32.000 And he was totally natural.
00:15:34.000 Yeah, there's no way you can say someone like Gordon Ryan isn't the highest prowess of skill set for jujitsu.
00:15:42.000 His technicality and his abilities there are unquestionable.
00:15:47.000 Yeah, I mean, what are you going to do if everybody else is on that level?
00:15:51.000 You're now at a deficit if you're not taking it.
00:15:54.000 There's a few guys that don't.
00:15:56.000 And maybe, I don't know.
00:15:59.000 Obviously, there's maybe some strength skill or strength deficit there, but that's why, again, going back to my style and what I like to do, like the technicality and having that ability, there's just so many aspects to everything.
00:16:16.000 But if you're that much more technical than someone, then that can negate size to some extent.
00:16:20.000 That could negate.
00:16:23.000 Strength to some extent.
00:16:24.000 There's a lot of equalizers there.
00:16:26.000 Now, on the opposite end, someone who's got that one hitter quitter, they could be less technical, but they're always dangerous.
00:16:34.000 If they hit you one time and you go to sleep, then all sins are forgiven.
00:16:37.000 They could have got beat up for two rounds straight and they knock you out.
00:16:41.000 That's all the crowd remembers.
00:16:44.000 There's a lot that goes into it, but if you're that much more skilled in your technicality, you're going to.
00:16:53.000 To me, that's the best you can do.
00:16:55.000 That's really what you're chasing.
00:16:56.000 For sure.
00:16:58.000 The really dangerous guys are the guys who have that one hitter quitter power and then they get real technical.
00:17:02.000 Yeah.
00:17:03.000 Those are the scary guys.
00:17:04.000 I mean, that's, then now you have it all.
00:17:04.000 Oh, for sure.
00:17:07.000 Yeah.
00:17:08.000 That's the pinnacle.
00:17:09.000 But it's often not the case, though.
00:17:11.000 That's what's interesting power can be a curse, as can talent.
00:17:14.000 Talent can be a curse, too, because you don't work as hard, because you fuck everybody up in the gym.
00:17:20.000 And so you don't show up for practice sometimes.
00:17:22.000 You still fuck these guys up.
00:17:23.000 They're just not on your level physically or for whatever reason.
00:17:26.000 Yeah.
00:17:26.000 And then there's guys that have that power that always just rely on that power and never really develop the fundamentals.
00:17:34.000 Like Deontay Wilder is a great example of that.
00:17:36.000 Deontay Wilder, who I think is the greatest one punch knockout artist in the history of the heavyweight division.
00:17:41.000 That fucking guy.
00:17:43.000 Woo!
00:17:43.000 And not a big guy.
00:17:45.000 Yeah.
00:17:45.000 But his power is nuts.
00:17:47.000 And Teddy Atlas has the greatest description of it.
00:17:51.000 He said, It's the great eraser.
00:17:54.000 Any mistakes he makes, one shot erases them all.
00:17:58.000 Yeah.
00:17:58.000 It's so true.
00:17:59.000 Oh, 100%.
00:18:00.000 Yeah, it's.
00:18:02.000 I agree.
00:18:02.000 I mean, but could you imagine if Deontay could move like Tyson Fury?
00:18:08.000 Right.
00:18:09.000 If Deontay could box like Tyson Fury.
00:18:10.000 Yeah.
00:18:11.000 With also that crazy, insane power.
00:18:13.000 Yeah, that's game over for everybody.
00:18:14.000 That's game over for everybody.
00:18:15.000 Or we'll just be in the front of that guy.
00:18:16.000 Yeah.
00:18:17.000 Not a single person, you know?
00:18:18.000 This episode is brought to you by Blue Chew.
00:18:21.000 Man, let's talk about Blue Chew.
00:18:22.000 They're already the number one brand for better sex, but what they're doing with Blue Chew Gold is completely next level.
00:18:29.000 Gold is a four in one formula designed to make.
00:18:33.000 Your bedroom noisy again.
00:18:35.000 Obviously, it gets you hard, like you're back in your 20s, and everything is handled 100% online.
00:18:42.000 But gold boosts your arousal, getting you ready for sex physically and mentally.
00:18:48.000 Plus, it dissolves under your tongue for faster absorption, so you get that spontaneous energy back.
00:18:55.000 Look at the stats gold is three times stronger, five times faster, and eight times longer lasting than old school methods.
00:19:03.000 Blue Chew Gold is the real deal.
00:19:06.000 Right now, Buy two months of Blue Chew Gold and get the third free with my code ROGAN.
00:19:12.000 You will also receive free overnight shipping.
00:19:14.000 Head over to bluechew.com for details and important safety information.
00:19:19.000 Check it out.
00:19:21.000 This ad and the products being advertised are intended for a United States audience.
00:19:26.000 Yeah, if he could move like Usic, I mean, it's a tall fucking order because no one can move like Usic other than Usic, but imagine if he could move like Usic.
00:19:33.000 Right.
00:19:34.000 You know, I mean, and has that crazy stop bang.
00:19:37.000 Right.
00:19:37.000 One shot, you're in another fucking dimension.
00:19:40.000 Yeah, and that's, you know, there's, and then that's obviously like at a personal level.
00:19:48.000 Some people are blessed with that talent, like you said, or a skill set, athleticism.
00:19:52.000 Well, the power thing is just, it seems like it's a gift.
00:19:55.000 No, it is.
00:19:55.000 Yeah.
00:19:56.000 I mean, I think it was for us, I was talking about Connor, and he was talking about how the muscles connect to the muscle head differently.
00:20:03.000 It's like a long or a short one.
00:20:05.000 So then you either have that real explosive power, but then your cardio suffers, whatever it is.
00:20:10.000 He's going into it.
00:20:11.000 It's a gift.
00:20:11.000 I mean, can you develop it to some extent?
00:20:14.000 Yeah, of course.
00:20:15.000 Now, The other thing with punching, with striking, is it's not always power that knocks people out.
00:20:23.000 It's the shot that you don't see coming that knocks you out.
00:20:25.000 Sure.
00:20:26.000 And so then you can kind of equalize on that playing field, I suppose, to some extent, if you're getting people guessing, you're getting people fainting, you're hitting them with shots that they're not seeing, then you're going to get similar knockout finishes like that.
00:20:43.000 There's a lot of guys that knock a lot of people out that don't have one punch power, for sure.
00:20:47.000 Max Holloway is a great example of that.
00:20:48.000 Like, Max is never, even though he has knocked guys out with one shot, it's generally like after a bunch of damage.
00:20:53.000 Right.
00:20:54.000 But I mean, Max talked about it pretty openly about guys like Connor and Jose Aldo.
00:20:58.000 And he's like, they just get tired quicker because of the speed and power.
00:21:01.000 They're so explosive.
00:21:03.000 It's so much energy to try to close the distance that quick and land those big nuclear bomb shots.
00:21:09.000 But you only have a few of those in a whole fight.
00:21:12.000 Yeah.
00:21:13.000 I feel like Max's perspective on those two guys may be construed just because of.
00:21:20.000 I mean, he fought Connor the first time, I guess, when Connor was in his prime, you know, and he was coming up.
00:21:26.000 It was almost before his prime.
00:21:27.000 It was on that rise.
00:21:28.000 They were both kids.
00:21:29.000 I think Max was 20 at the time.
00:21:31.000 Yeah.
00:21:32.000 I think he was like the youngest UFC fighter at that time or something close to that.
00:21:35.000 He was a different human back then.
00:21:37.000 For sure.
00:21:37.000 But I just think so, like, because Connor's cardio is something that I have noticed.
00:21:44.000 It wasn't super poor, like, initially.
00:21:47.000 When he was fighting at 145, I mean, to me, he never, like, Chad Mendes, they had a lot of grappling exchanges.
00:21:52.000 Chad took him down, Chad hit him with shots.
00:21:54.000 You know, Connor just stayed nice, calm, cool, and collected.
00:21:58.000 And he got back to the striking where he could do that.
00:22:02.000 But to me, he never was like gassed out.
00:22:04.000 But then you watch the second Diaz fight and he's running around the cage for five rounds.
00:22:09.000 Now he's gone up in a weight class.
00:22:11.000 So then it goes back to, you know, what's his training regimen look like?
00:22:15.000 He's not cutting as much weight, so he doesn't have to be as disciplined.
00:22:18.000 His diet changes.
00:22:20.000 There's a lot of aspects.
00:22:21.000 So, like, I don't know.
00:22:24.000 The Connor one was.
00:22:25.000 Was weird to me just because I saw it.
00:22:27.000 I saw a change in it when he was 145, he didn't have poor cardio.
00:22:31.000 As soon as he left that weight class, his cardio waned.
00:22:35.000 And then Jose Aldo I mean, that guy was undefeated for what 10 years, champion for 10 years, and you never saw him get tired.
00:22:43.000 And I never saw him get tired.
00:22:46.000 Yeah, Max fought him at a certain point when he's a little bit older, this and that.
00:22:49.000 So I don't know, maybe that's just Max's perspective on that.
00:22:51.000 I'm not saying Max is incorrect in what he's saying, but um.
00:22:56.000 I don't know.
00:22:58.000 There's, there's, to me, there's just, I haven't pinpointed exactly what's the right and wrong way to do everything just because there's so many variables, especially in MMA.
00:23:07.000 I mean, we were kind of discussing a little bit earlier, it's not just solely that you have like good cardio that allows you to continue to perform in that fight.
00:23:18.000 There's another aspect of how calm, cool, and collected you can be because, you know, like we were talking, hitting the mitts and something, if you're real tense and you're just trying to kill them, Yeah, you're going to burn yourself out.
00:23:28.000 But if you're fast and snappy, you're producing just as much, if not more power, and now you're being more efficient with it, you know?
00:23:35.000 And so, I don't know.
00:23:38.000 The cardio one is a funky one in combat sports to me.
00:23:43.000 It really is.
00:23:44.000 But I think if you look at Jose Aldo, Jose Aldo, when he was on top, when he was the king, he was wrecking everybody.
00:23:53.000 And he was the hammer most of the time.
00:23:55.000 And he was so athletic and so fast and had some of the best leg kicks we had ever seen.
00:24:00.000 Like the Uriah Faber fight.
00:24:01.000 How fucking tough is Uriah Faber?
00:24:03.000 Yeah.
00:24:03.000 Because, like, that guy, many, many, many humans would have been stopped a long time ago just from those leg kicks.
00:24:09.000 And Uriah just kept trying to the very last second.
00:24:13.000 Even though he was way behind the scorecards, never folded up his tent.
00:24:17.000 He was still trying.
00:24:18.000 But Aldo wasn't the nail.
00:24:21.000 You know what I'm saying?
00:24:21.000 Like, there were very few moments in a fight where someone had really started overwhelming him.
00:24:26.000 And one of the things that Max has always been so good at is knowing when to hit the gas and knowing when to just slowly ramp up the pressure.
00:24:35.000 And you see guys start to fade.
00:24:37.000 And Max is a cardio fucking machine.
00:24:39.000 I mean, super disciplined guy.
00:24:42.000 And great camp.
00:24:43.000 Those guys in Hawaii really prepare him well.
00:24:46.000 He is always like 100%.
00:24:48.000 Like the fight with Gaichi.
00:24:50.000 Fighting in the fifth round of a fucking crazy chaotic war, just the same exact pace he was fighting in the first round.
00:24:56.000 Right.
00:24:57.000 So it's the experience of knowing what your body can do, when you can hit the gas, when you need to back off, when to move, when not to, and when you feel your opponent start to fade a little bit.
00:25:06.000 You see the mouth being open a little bit more.
00:25:08.000 You see the movement looks a little sloppier.
00:25:11.000 Right.
00:25:11.000 Oh, 100%.
00:25:12.000 That's, yeah.
00:25:13.000 Knowing when to rest is a big aspect of that as well.
00:25:15.000 Because you go and you, I mean, that's why a lot of the training you do is that short burst.
00:25:20.000 You know, you hit like your sprints.
00:25:23.000 You know, you might maybe hit the straightaway on the track and then you jog and maintain because in a fight, you're never completely resting.
00:25:28.000 You're always moving a little bit.
00:25:31.000 So, yeah, I mean, that's a huge thing.
00:25:33.000 The experience, I think his style and just what he's created, like you said, in his camp is a high output, high volume individual.
00:25:42.000 So, you know, his body's probably become used to that and that's how he performs normally.
00:25:51.000 Yeah, I was shocked that Connor wanted to fight him.
00:25:54.000 In his first fight back after years off.
00:25:56.000 I mean, five years is a long time to not fight.
00:26:00.000 And then to come back and fight a guy like Max, who's been constantly fighting the best guys in the world, and knowing that Max is a guy who never fades.
00:26:09.000 And he's in very different.
00:26:11.000 I mean, the only guy who's really gotten him out of there is Ilya.
00:26:13.000 And, you know, Ilya caught Max when Max went down from 55 down to 45, which I think was a mistake.
00:26:20.000 He was so big.
00:26:21.000 He got so big to get up to 55 to fight Justin.
00:26:24.000 And he did it over a long period of time, put a lot of mass on, and then you essentially, you're starving yourself to get down to 45 again.
00:26:31.000 Your body's going to be weak no matter what you do.
00:26:33.000 It's not like when he was fighting at 45, he maintained a lower weight class, knew exactly when to cut, and would make it no problem each time.
00:26:42.000 That last cut to 45 was a nightmare.
00:26:44.000 It was a horror show.
00:26:46.000 And so when he got in there with Ilya, and then you're fighting El Matador, that motherfucker, you want to talk about technique.
00:26:53.000 Technique and his strike, the smoothness and efficiency, and the one punch.
00:26:58.000 Go night night power.
00:27:00.000 I mean, that guy has it above it.
00:27:01.000 Who the fuck did that to Charles Oliveira the way that guy did?
00:27:04.000 I mean, that's nuts.
00:27:05.000 He's got, and up at 55.
00:27:07.000 When Oliveira's a big 55, too.
00:27:09.000 Yeah.
00:27:10.000 I mean, yeah, him moving up to 55, there's some big dogs right there.
00:27:14.000 Big.
00:27:15.000 Especially when you look at him and Justin.
00:27:17.000 When him and Justin were like facing off each other, I'm like, that's a way bigger dude.
00:27:20.000 Yeah.
00:27:21.000 Like, Justin's bigger than me and Illy is smaller than me.
00:27:23.000 When I stand next to two of them, I'm like, this is crazy that Illy has the kind of power that he's just wrecking guys even that are way bigger than him.
00:27:31.000 Right.
00:27:32.000 I mean, his skill set is amazing combined with the power.
00:27:32.000 Yeah.
00:27:37.000 That's someone you talk about has a skill set and the punching power, you know, and encompasses both those things.
00:27:42.000 It's, yeah, he's got it all.
00:27:45.000 I mean, and the thing with him, too, is he's just so calm, cool, and collected.
00:27:51.000 I think that's also something.
00:27:53.000 I mean, I do a lot of comparison from Muay Thai boxing to the MMA world because, you know, I'm in MMA, so I understand that there's so many different aspects to it where, like, someone could take you down and that's going to affect your striking skill set.
00:28:10.000 You know, if you got someone who's a real Dell wrestler and you're a way better striker, If you're sitting there and worried about them taking you down and smothering you, your striking goes out the window a little bit because now you have a whole different set of weapons that you're worrying about.
00:28:23.000 And you can get caught easier.
00:28:25.000 Yeah, especially if you're just loading up on them.
00:28:28.000 Yeah, you're going to get ducked under and double-egged and then taken down.
00:28:32.000 And that's the whole thing.
00:28:37.000 I forgot where we even started this train of thought.
00:28:39.000 But yeah, I mean, I think it's his collectiveness too.
00:28:45.000 But I was saying there's comparisons to all these.
00:28:47.000 And that's what, like boxing, you see these guys, they might have a couple more rounds, but they come out in like the first round, maybe the second round is a feeling out round.
00:28:55.000 You know, it's a slow buildup where they're collecting data, they're setting traps, they're doing a lot of that.
00:29:04.000 And you see that in MMA, it's just not at the same level.
00:29:06.000 Obviously, there's a greater skill set, there's more weapons to worry about.
00:29:10.000 It is different.
00:29:13.000 But I don't know.
00:29:14.000 Obviously, I'm reaching for peak perfection with everything.
00:29:17.000 If we're coming and we're looking at distance control, I think the boxers do it better.
00:29:22.000 If we're looking at setting up feints and working off a jab, especially, I think that's the most frustrating thing when I watch MMA or UFC fights and watch the majority of the guys never, ever use a jab.
00:29:36.000 And it's always just this big overhand right.
00:29:38.000 I'm like, what are you doing?
00:29:40.000 You have two hands.
00:29:41.000 That's crazy.
00:29:41.000 You have the jab, set it up.
00:29:43.000 Now, I'm not saying that's everybody, but I see many people doing that.
00:29:47.000 But going back to Taporia, that's one thing that he does so well is he's a shorter guy.
00:29:52.000 He sits back on that back foot.
00:29:54.000 He's throwing that jab.
00:29:55.000 He's understanding your distance control so he can get in.
00:29:58.000 And then that's where he's got that power and he lets that go.
00:30:00.000 It's going to be interesting to see how he rebounds because that was a lot of damage.
00:30:06.000 Two fractured orbitals.
00:30:08.000 You know, they had to stop the fight in between rounds.
00:30:10.000 Yeah.
00:30:11.000 And he took big punches from a guy who's got fucking rocks in his hands.
00:30:15.000 Yeah.
00:30:16.000 I mean, Justin can crack.
00:30:17.000 Well, they call him, what, the most violent?
00:30:19.000 Yeah.
00:30:20.000 The most violent in the game.
00:30:21.000 And I think that stands true.
00:30:23.000 Yeah, that's a hard one to bounce back from.
00:30:25.000 It's going to take.
00:30:27.000 Extra time of him really letting all his injuries heal and be fully recovered before he even thinks about sparring again, you know, ever getting touched in the face again.
00:30:36.000 Yeah, I don't know where he's at now, you know, but I know that he's still recovering and it'll be a while.
00:30:42.000 I mean, the fight was in June.
00:30:43.000 We're doing this right now.
00:30:44.000 It's August 30th.
00:30:45.000 Was it 30th or 31st?
00:30:47.000 31st.
00:30:48.000 So, you know, he's had a couple of months, but, you know, that he probably needs like six months before he's even sparring again.
00:30:54.000 Oh, yeah, for sure.
00:30:55.000 Yeah, I mean, it's going to take some time.
00:30:58.000 And the thing that I really hate to see is when you have undefeated individuals like that who have gone undefeated their whole career, feel invincible, and then sometimes that one takes them off their pedestal.
00:30:58.000 It's going to take some time.
00:31:11.000 You know, like Jose Aldo's a great example of that.
00:31:13.000 I mean, and he came back and he fought tough, but he just never was the same.
00:31:17.000 Right.
00:31:17.000 He was never that untouchable.
00:31:20.000 You know, there's probably many people that I can touch back on, but yeah, I think hopefully that's the main thing that he's going to need is that.
00:31:31.000 That mental indestructibility and to come back and just be like, I'm the same person.
00:31:36.000 That one fight doesn't change anything and I'm ready to go do it again.
00:31:39.000 Well, he's a very mentally strong guy.
00:31:42.000 I think he will bounce back in that regard.
00:31:45.000 It's just, there's also the reality of how much damage, and only he knows how much damage he actually took in that fight.
00:31:52.000 How that affects him as well.
00:31:54.000 Because you know as well as anybody that there's only a few of those kind of fights that you could have in your career.
00:32:00.000 And you've got to be very careful how you recover from those.
00:32:04.000 And a lot of fighters, a lot of great fighters, have made a mistake of coming back too soon.
00:32:09.000 Volkanovsky is one that I point to all the time, who's arguably the greatest featherweight of all time.
00:32:13.000 He.
00:32:14.000 Is one of the most masterful fighters in the game.
00:32:17.000 He took a short, short notice fight with Islam in the rematch and got head kicked.
00:32:23.000 And then I think it was only four months later that he was fighting Ilya.
00:32:27.000 And that is crazy.
00:32:29.000 That's a crazy thing to do.
00:32:30.000 He took a full head kick, shinned to the dome, gets KO'd.
00:32:34.000 And then four months later, he's fighting the fucking scariest challenger that he's ever had to face.
00:32:38.000 Right.
00:32:39.000 Yeah, 100%.
00:32:41.000 You can't rush back into those things.
00:32:42.000 I mean, especially when you're that cemented.
00:32:45.000 You don't really need to rush back into it.
00:32:46.000 Right.
00:32:46.000 You know, you have your legacy behind you.
00:32:48.000 Well, he shouldn't have even taken that fight with Islam.
00:32:51.000 There's no way you should take a world championship fight when you're hanging out with your buddies, drinking beer, you know, eating fish and chips or whatever the fuck he was doing.
00:32:59.000 And then.
00:33:00.000 Just hunting with Volk over there, you know?
00:33:01.000 He's having a good time, but he wasn't in training.
00:33:03.000 There's no way he was in training.
00:33:05.000 He didn't look like he was in training physically.
00:33:06.000 Like his body didn't look the same.
00:33:08.000 Right.
00:33:08.000 Not like he looked out of shape, but he definitely looked smoother and less ripped than he usually does.
00:33:14.000 There's a difference to being in a two or three month fight camp.
00:33:17.000 Of day in, day out, two, three practices a day.
00:33:20.000 The diet's set, the mentality is set, versus I'm just training on the outside of that.
00:33:26.000 When you came in on two days' notice to fight Wellmaker, were you in training at all?
00:33:31.000 What was your scenario?
00:33:34.000 I was doing food eating championship training, I was killing double doubles and three by threes.
00:33:40.000 No, but with that one, I was fortunate because I stay strict pretty much year round.
00:33:46.000 So I had fought in January.
00:33:49.000 At the beginning of the year.
00:33:50.000 And then I was supposed to fight multiple times, and I just had two or three opponents pull out.
00:33:56.000 And then I fought November 7th for the title fight for the A1 combat, which was literally the weekend before.
00:34:01.000 So fortunately, I was, even though people were falling out, I kept to the course.
00:34:07.000 I stayed strong.
00:34:08.000 I stayed in a fight camp mentality.
00:34:11.000 That November 7th fight ended up happening.
00:34:13.000 So I had a strong two months.
00:34:16.000 Now, still, even that one week difference of.
00:34:20.000 Go and be in a fight camp, and then I have a couple drinks at the casino.
00:34:24.000 I'm eating food, and I thought to myself because January was a similar thing where they said, February, Australia, get ready, get your passport, let's look into this.
00:34:37.000 Blah blah blah.
00:34:38.000 You know, I had a nice knockout finish there.
00:34:42.000 Um, but then, yeah, just that one week of being off of eating whatever I wanted to and just kind of doing whatever I ran once, I showed up to sparring and light touch sparred.
00:34:53.000 I had gone to one other practice because in my mind, I was like, I need to be somewhat ready for this.
00:34:58.000 Like, I can have a week.
00:35:00.000 I've been in fight camp all year long.
00:35:01.000 I can have one week.
00:35:03.000 And then that's the week that they call and say 48 hour notice, MSG, 10 0 undefeated Malcolm Wellmaker.
00:35:08.000 You want it?
00:35:09.000 And then, of course, I can't say no to that one.
00:35:13.000 So you fought the weekend before the Wellmaker fight?
00:35:15.000 I fought November 7th, yeah.
00:35:17.000 Wow.
00:35:18.000 That's actually good.
00:35:20.000 It's just you didn't get hurt.
00:35:21.000 Yeah.
00:35:22.000 Well, it was.
00:35:23.000 A minute and 30 seconds.
00:35:25.000 I knocked him out in the first round.
00:35:26.000 So it was, to me, it's just the stars aligned.
00:35:29.000 I mean, don't you think it's also good that you just had the experience like seven days prior to the whole thing getting in the cage, cage shots?
00:35:38.000 You just fought.
00:35:39.000 So, it's much more comfortable for you than if you had, like, Connor taking five years off.
00:35:44.000 As elite as Connor is, double champ, one of the greatest of all time.
00:35:48.000 For that, even a guy like that, you take five years off and you could see, like, what it did to him.
00:35:53.000 It's like it fucked with his head.
00:35:55.000 Oh, yeah.
00:35:56.000 You could see it.
00:35:57.000 There wasn't the same Connor energy going into it.
00:36:00.000 Of course, I always want a quick turnaround.
00:36:04.000 Like, after I fight, just for that very reason, I cut the weight.
00:36:09.000 I know what that's like.
00:36:10.000 I. Warmed up in the back with all the anticipation, you know, and that energy flowing through my body.
00:36:17.000 I walked out in front of the crowd.
00:36:19.000 They announced my name.
00:36:21.000 I actually fought someone.
00:36:21.000 I got in there.
00:36:22.000 So, yeah, if you have that going for you, then that's, yeah, it's way, way better for sure.
00:36:28.000 Yeah, the more active you could be, the more comfortable you could be with the experience as long as you're not getting hurt.
00:36:33.000 Yeah, here's a stat that I was reading about Izzy.
00:36:38.000 And people forget about this.
00:36:39.000 When he was a champion, he defended his title a lot.
00:36:42.000 Man, he was the guy that they can go, Hey, we need someone to headline this card, and Izzy would step in.
00:36:48.000 I think he fought three times, he defended the world title three times in one year, which is crazy because I don't think the middleweight title since he's gone has even been content.
00:37:00.000 Like, how many middleweight fights have there even been for the title since he's been gone?
00:37:06.000 There's only been a few fights.
00:37:08.000 I think there's only been, I mean, there's Sean and Drickus, Sean and Drickus, too, Drickus and Hamzot.
00:37:17.000 And then Sean and Hamza.
00:37:18.000 And Sean and Hamza.
00:37:19.000 I mean, it might literally be like maybe five fights since he's lost the title.
00:37:25.000 And fuck, he defended it more than anybody.
00:37:28.000 Yeah, which is crazy.
00:37:28.000 Right.
00:37:29.000 He defended it three times in one year.
00:37:30.000 Yeah.
00:37:31.000 And then you have this huge span of time in between defenses.
00:37:35.000 But then there's the question of like, what is this?
00:37:39.000 When does it become a benefit and when does it become a detriment?
00:37:42.000 Like, when you're fighting too many times a year, like the Mirab Dovish Willie fight, one of the things that a lot of people. Talked about after Piotr Jan beat him in the rematch was what about the strength of schedule?
00:37:55.000 I mean, Mirab was fighting constantly.
00:37:58.000 He was fighting, he fought so often and for so many years that you got to think that at a certain point in time, maybe he's doing himself a disservice by being so active.
00:38:09.000 Yeah, I mean, for sure.
00:38:12.000 I mean, that's something you got to feel out for yourself.
00:38:12.000 I don't know.
00:38:16.000 You know, it's something that you have to know in your heart of hearts, and nobody else can tell you that.
00:38:21.000 Your coach can't be like, nah, you're training really well.
00:38:23.000 These days, you're super sharp, this and that.
00:38:25.000 Like, if something's off, realistically, you should be perfect going into your fight, especially at a world championship caliber.
00:38:34.000 Um, it's just, I mean, I keep making these comparisons, but it's another thing that I go back to with the boxing world these guys look at it as a business.
00:38:43.000 Like, look at Floyd Mayweather, like, everything was like he made sure that the cage was his side, he picked the gloves, it was certain people at certain times.
00:38:51.000 And there's some things to be said about that, but it's a business mindset, it's a very smart approach to it.
00:38:56.000 You know, I'm fighting when I'm ready.
00:38:57.000 I'm not fighting injured, which is more of the main thing.
00:39:00.000 It's like people go in there with injuries and get hurt or lose even.
00:39:06.000 It's like that could be detrimental on your record.
00:39:09.000 I think the MMA guys are a little bit more on the tough side instead of the business side of things where they'll fight anyone, anytime, which, I mean, that's how you got to be, but that's how you build your team around you.
00:39:20.000 You have a team that tells you, hey, this time isn't necessarily the best to go into it and this and that, and just being a little bit smarter about your schedule.
00:39:29.000 It's like, yeah.
00:39:30.000 Us fighters are going to sit there and go, I'll fight anyone any given time.
00:39:35.000 Doesn't matter.
00:39:36.000 But, yeah, this is a business.
00:39:39.000 It's not just fighting, like getting in that cage solely.
00:39:43.000 It's a lot of aspects that go into it.
00:39:45.000 Don't you think it's way more difficult to go into a fight perfect in MMA than it is in boxing, though?
00:39:51.000 In boxing, it seems like it's much easier to avoid injuries.
00:39:54.000 For sure.
00:39:55.000 There's differences.
00:39:56.000 I just, I reflect back to that.
00:39:58.000 I like the way that they conduct themselves.
00:40:00.000 I think it's, and there's a lot that's to be said to that because it's a longer standing sport.
00:40:06.000 There's been more time and experience into it.
00:40:09.000 But yeah, 100%.
00:40:11.000 I mean, you know, I was before this April fight, the first round of the day of sparring, I was just going light with Callum Bisping for literally one second.
00:40:23.000 And we moved around, and he's a heavyweight.
00:40:25.000 We moved around.
00:40:26.000 He took me, he tried to take me down.
00:40:28.000 I stuffed it.
00:40:28.000 He took me down, and I kind of just sat with it because I didn't want to get caught in any, you know, knee tweaking positions or anything because he's just so much heavier than I am.
00:40:35.000 And I sat into a butterfly, which is, Typically, how I would do that, elevate the hips immediately and try to make a scramble, and my meniscus just popped instantly right then and there.
00:40:45.000 First round of the day, barely had done anything, barely started, and it wasn't even like a crazy position, but yeah, now I sustained injury.
00:40:55.000 Now I don't go against heavyweights anymore because it's stupid.
00:40:57.000 Yeah, you should never be doing that.
00:40:59.000 It's stupid.
00:40:59.000 As a bantamweight, you should not be sparring with heavyweights.
00:41:02.000 Well, that's why I go the first day, or not the first day, but the first round, and I'm just trying to warm up.
00:41:06.000 There's a lot of things to be said.
00:41:07.000 I grow and I learn and I get smarter every time I stay with.
00:41:11.000 Guys that are reasonably close to your weight period.
00:41:13.000 10 pounds is probably a maximum above you.
00:41:16.000 You shouldn't be going with anybody more than that.
00:41:18.000 Yeah, I get smarter with these things.
00:41:21.000 I do dumb things, and I figure for most of my history, I've had to learn the hard way with things.
00:41:29.000 So I'm getting better at it.
00:41:30.000 I'm getting smarter.
00:41:32.000 But like I said, it was just a freak thing.
00:41:33.000 It wasn't like we were going crazy hard or anything.
00:41:36.000 It just was the first round.
00:41:37.000 I was just trying to move, and then some little thing happened.
00:41:40.000 How bad is it?
00:41:41.000 It wasn't a full tear, but it happened back in.
00:41:45.000 Like February ish, right before that April one.
00:41:47.000 So, leading up to the Esteban fight, it's like I didn't grapple until the last maybe month of it.
00:41:54.000 Oh, so it was bothering you even before that fight?
00:41:56.000 It was all the way up to it.
00:41:57.000 I mean, that's when it happened the April fight, which was the Esteban fight.
00:42:01.000 Wow.
00:42:02.000 So, yeah, it's very difficult to avoid everything.
00:42:07.000 There's a lot of different things that won't even seem like a detrimental position, but yeah, you got grappling, which can tweak all sorts of different parts of the body.
00:42:15.000 A simple cut.
00:42:17.000 From striking can happen very easily.
00:42:19.000 So, for sure, it's much more abundant in the MMA world because there are more weapons.
00:42:25.000 There's a lot of variations of things to watch out for.
00:42:28.000 But that being said, I like to carry, like I said, this is a smart man's game.
00:42:33.000 I like to carry a level of business wise and smart wise to this.
00:42:38.000 And that's so, though the exact functions may differ, it's the mindset that I like to carry from it.
00:42:47.000 Right.
00:42:48.000 Well, what you said is perfect that it's a long business.
00:42:51.000 Boxy's been around for a long time.
00:42:53.000 And the really elite trainers, the really elite coaches, they know how to prepare their fighters and they know what fights to take and when to take them.
00:43:02.000 And unfortunately, with the UFC, sometimes you get a call like the Malcolm Wellmaker fight.
00:43:09.000 And you're like, oh shit, it would be nice to get two months to prepare for Malcolm, but I have two days.
00:43:17.000 And I just fought, fuck it, roll the dice.
00:43:20.000 And.
00:43:21.000 You also were coming out of nowhere, and I don't think a lot of people had time to prepare for you.
00:43:27.000 Because as good as you are, when you fought Wellmaker, when you fought, how do you say his name?
00:43:32.000 Esteban, what is his?
00:43:33.000 Rafael Estevan.
00:43:34.000 Rastaval Estevan, he was also undefeated and super skillful.
00:43:40.000 He was a really good fighter and still is.
00:43:42.000 But to have those two performances in a row, the way you looked, you looked like a guy like if you were 20 years ago, you would have been a fucking alien.
00:43:53.000 Like no one had seen anybody like you before.
00:43:55.000 That's how much this sport has grown just in 20 years.
00:43:58.000 If you go back to like Ultimate Fighter Season 1, there was fucking nobody like you.
00:44:03.000 Nobody like you back then.
00:44:04.000 Right.
00:44:05.000 You know, it really wasn't until Anderson burst onto the scene shortly after that that we really got to see that kind of elite level of striking.
00:44:14.000 Yeah.
00:44:14.000 I mean, yeah.
00:44:16.000 Talk about an alien for that time.
00:44:18.000 That was Anderson Silva.
00:44:20.000 That's one of the top to ever do it.
00:44:21.000 There's no question.
00:44:22.000 Oh, my God.
00:44:23.000 People forget because maybe they see his later fights in his career.
00:44:27.000 But you go back and watch him when he was in his prime.
00:44:27.000 Yeah.
00:44:29.000 I remember when he fought Chris Lieben.
00:44:32.000 And Chris Lieben is a murderous puncher, like one of the hardest punchers that's ever fought in the UFC.
00:44:36.000 He's.
00:44:37.000 He's one of those guys that's got that fucking God given crack.
00:44:41.000 And he's just such a warrior.
00:44:41.000 Right.
00:44:43.000 I mean, wades into the storm, you know?
00:44:46.000 But that style is tailor made for him.
00:44:48.000 And when I was looking at the odds, a friend of mine was there.
00:44:51.000 I go, bet the house on the Brazilian.
00:44:54.000 I go, bet the house.
00:44:56.000 I go, listen to me.
00:44:57.000 This is a motherfucker, dude.
00:44:59.000 Just wait.
00:45:00.000 Because that's when he really came into his own over in Cage Rage.
00:45:05.000 Right.
00:45:05.000 That's when he really became Anderson Silva.
00:45:08.000 That was a yellow cage?
00:45:09.000 Yes.
00:45:09.000 Was that a cage?
00:45:10.000 That's when he did that.
00:45:12.000 The elbow, the crazy elbow?
00:45:13.000 Yeah.
00:45:14.000 Tony Fricklin?
00:45:16.000 What was the.
00:45:16.000 Yeah.
00:45:18.000 It was like an up kick, like a crescent up kick.
00:45:20.000 Was that Pride or was that the Cage Ranger?
00:45:22.000 He was on the bottom and he whipped his leg over the top.
00:45:25.000 It wasn't like a straight up kick.
00:45:26.000 He kind of like brought it over.
00:45:28.000 Ooh, I don't remember that one.
00:45:29.000 Yeah, I don't recall either.
00:45:31.000 Who was he fighting?
00:45:32.000 I don't know.
00:45:33.000 I'm not good at names.
00:45:34.000 So in Pride, it was.
00:45:37.000 Who was he fighting here, Jamie?
00:45:39.000 Japanese gentleman.
00:45:41.000 Yushin Okami.
00:45:43.000 Oh, Yushin Okami.
00:45:43.000 This was Rumble on the Rock.
00:45:45.000 This was BJ Penn's promotion.
00:45:46.000 Look at that.
00:45:47.000 Oh.
00:45:48.000 Yeah, he's just doing things that nobody had ever thought of at that time.
00:45:53.000 He gets that right leg loose, ties his hands up, ba-bow.
00:45:57.000 That's crazy.
00:45:58.000 And Okami was a beast.
00:46:00.000 And they fought again in the UFC later, and he KO'd Okami.
00:46:04.000 Yeah, stuff like that.
00:46:05.000 The elbow you're talking about.
00:46:06.000 Yeah.
00:46:07.000 Just like, just a pioneer for it.
00:46:09.000 You know, it's not like he's watching film.
00:46:11.000 He's not sitting on YouTube watching.
00:46:13.000 People do these things prior, he's the one that's coming up with it.
00:46:16.000 Yeah, this is the crazy elbow.
00:46:17.000 You know what the funny story about this elbow?
00:46:19.000 He was training that, and his coach told him, Stop doing that.
00:46:22.000 You're not going to do that.
00:46:23.000 And so he made his wife hold pillows at home, and he was practicing it at home.
00:46:29.000 He was having her hold a pillow, and he was just working on the mechanics of that elbow.
00:46:32.000 It's like he wanted to prove his coach wrong.
00:46:34.000 Right.
00:46:35.000 And he wanted to get the knockout with that technique.
00:46:37.000 And lo and behold, he did it.
00:46:40.000 Well, he had some great fights over there, particularly the Lee Murray fight.
00:46:45.000 Did you ever see that fight?
00:46:48.000 Probably.
00:46:49.000 I probably have to.
00:46:50.000 He's the British dude that became a bank robber.
00:46:53.000 He was the bank robber, Craig.
00:46:54.000 Biggest heist in UK history.
00:46:56.000 Yeah.
00:46:57.000 Yeah.
00:46:57.000 And that was a bad dude, too.
00:46:59.000 Oh, he was a bad boy.
00:46:59.000 At the time, everybody was scared of that dude.
00:47:01.000 Well, that guy could crack.
00:47:03.000 He was another guy who had crazy power.
00:47:04.000 Yeah.
00:47:05.000 And just a vicious dude.
00:47:06.000 Just an absolutely vicious guy.
00:47:08.000 He was a legitimate criminal.
00:47:09.000 Yeah, exactly.
00:47:10.000 He had that whole aura and persona to him.
00:47:12.000 Yeah, he was a real gangster.
00:47:14.000 Yeah, that brings a little bit more of this, you know, I don't want to say fear, but like, who's this guy, you know?
00:47:19.000 The fucking guy was an elite fighter.
00:47:22.000 And he was also an elite criminal.
00:47:25.000 Right.
00:47:26.000 Yeah, he's multi talented.
00:47:28.000 I mean, that's something in a movie.
00:47:30.000 Like a guy who's a top tier criminal who also competes and wins in the UFC.
00:47:37.000 Right.
00:47:38.000 And won by triangle.
00:47:38.000 Yeah.
00:47:39.000 He beat Jorge Rivera by triangle.
00:47:43.000 Yeah.
00:47:43.000 And it's crazy.
00:47:45.000 Yeah, I know.
00:47:46.000 And you have Anderson come in and just demolish this dude.
00:47:49.000 He just wrecked him.
00:47:49.000 And he wrecked him with technique.
00:47:49.000 Yeah.
00:47:51.000 And a lot of it was leg kicks.
00:47:52.000 Yeah.
00:47:53.000 He just, Anderson's Muay Thai was at such a different level.
00:47:56.000 It was so artistic.
00:47:58.000 Yeah.
00:47:59.000 I think that's the perfect word to describe that was artistic because it was just beautiful.
00:48:03.000 The way he set things up.
00:48:04.000 I mean, He made elite guys look very brand new in the cage.
00:48:10.000 I didn't see very many close fights with him until later in his career.
00:48:13.000 Yeah, it's a later in his career thing.
00:48:16.000 And I always say that with fighters, you really have to look at them when they were at their highest RPM, whatever.
00:48:21.000 Generally, it's only a few years.
00:48:23.000 But that few years, judge them by that.
00:48:26.000 Judge them by those performances when they were just on fire.
00:48:29.000 And I tell people you have to always go back and watch those Anderson fights.
00:48:34.000 When he front kicked Vitor in the face.
00:48:37.000 First time anybody had ever won by knockout with a front kick to the face in the UFC.
00:48:41.000 Now people do it all the time.
00:48:43.000 But I didn't even think that was a good option.
00:48:45.000 There's a video of, and I grew up kicking.
00:48:48.000 There's a video of me and Eddie Bravo working with one of those Bob dummies.
00:48:52.000 And he's like, What do you think about a front kick to the face?
00:48:54.000 I'm like, It's better to the body.
00:48:56.000 I mean, you could land it to the face, but I don't really see very many guys do it.
00:49:00.000 It's much more wrong.
00:49:03.000 It's perfect.
00:49:03.000 Just watched Anderson Silva fight.
00:49:05.000 And everybody does it now.
00:49:06.000 So many guys get knockouts with a front kick to the face because you don't see it coming when it comes straight up the middle.
00:49:11.000 If everything's coming around and all of a sudden something comes straight up the middle and catches the bottom of your chin.
00:49:16.000 For sure.
00:49:19.000 I like that side kick to the body, to the liver, throwing that heel in the liver.
00:49:22.000 I think that's more of a natural motion, but I have been working with the front kicks.
00:49:27.000 I like them a lot, especially with the weight on the back leg a little bit, and especially with these calf kicks, people are really trying to bear down and throw the calf kick hard.
00:49:37.000 That's what was going to be my technique in my last one when that calf kick comes off the very beginning.
00:49:44.000 Because that's what Faria does, he comes out, he looks for his distance, and he bases down, and he throws that calf kick almost every single time against every opponent.
00:49:53.000 And I was like, you know, especially because I was planning on going there one handed, and I was like, I'm just going to pull this front leg up, front kick to the face, and it's going to land.
00:50:03.000 It's going to be beautiful.
00:50:04.000 But yeah, I started to work that.
00:50:06.000 Like, you put all that weight on that back leg.
00:50:08.000 This one comes up fast.
00:50:09.000 And with the one I like better, especially with the boxing, as I come down here, is kind of getting that lean forward, and you're stepping back.
00:50:16.000 And then, when people think your face is in range forward, you just pull back and throw that one straight up the middle.
00:50:21.000 And you're talking about off the front leg?
00:50:22.000 From the back leg on the second one.
00:50:24.000 You're kind of basing out here and you're stepping back onto the back leg.
00:50:28.000 And when they open up like they're going to throw something, you're leaning back and throw it up the middle.
00:50:32.000 Yeah, you're changing the distance there.
00:50:35.000 People don't expect it.
00:50:36.000 For the calf kick, you're just light on the front leg and you're throwing it off the front leg.
00:50:40.000 Are you sliding forward?
00:50:41.000 Are you just picking it up and stabbing?
00:50:43.000 I'll just pick it up and stab it because they've got to close a little bit of distance to get that calf.
00:50:47.000 That one's.
00:50:48.000 You know, the kick is a longer range, but that one you have to come a little bit closer for me to throw it appropriately.
00:50:54.000 Some people smack it with the foot or whatever it is.
00:50:57.000 I don't like that.
00:50:57.000 I like that Dutch style, almost like a soccer kick.
00:50:59.000 Just you're raising it straight up, and that shin bone is touching that soft calf.
00:51:03.000 And so to do it that way, I get a little bit closer distance, but then that's where you set it up and all the other stuff.
00:51:10.000 It'd be a little safer doing it that way.
00:51:12.000 Yeah, the calf kick is interesting because a lot of guys are kind of just going straight up.
00:51:18.000 Right.
00:51:18.000 You know, like you ever see Yuki Yoza fight?
00:51:21.000 He's one of my favorite guys to watch fight.
00:51:23.000 That's probably like the perfect example of throwing a very deliberate and technical calf kick, is how he does it.
00:51:32.000 He destroys people's legs, destroys them.
00:51:34.000 And he's kicking up.
00:51:36.000 He's kicking up all the time, and there's no pivot.
00:51:38.000 And it's so fast.
00:51:39.000 It's so fast, and there's no tell.
00:51:39.000 Oh, 100%.
00:51:41.000 And he's throwing it in every combination.
00:51:43.000 So he's hitting you with a jab.
00:51:44.000 He's inside low kicking you.
00:51:46.000 The left hook, he's outside low kicking you.
00:51:49.000 Yeah, he's smacking you from all the different levels constantly, and taking out your base every time.
00:51:54.000 Every time you're close enough, he's taking out your base.
00:51:55.000 Every time.
00:51:56.000 Every time.
00:51:57.000 From all angles.
00:51:58.000 I love watching this guy fight.
00:51:59.000 He does that cool thing, too.
00:52:00.000 Like what he just did.
00:52:01.000 Check out that.
00:52:02.000 Watch that.
00:52:02.000 They gave him trouble for that because you're not supposed to do that in kickboxing.
00:52:05.000 See, he does that?
00:52:05.000 He hooks the guy's leg.
00:52:07.000 So he throws like a half speed kick.
00:52:09.000 Back it up again so you can see that.
00:52:11.000 He throws like a half speed kick, holds it, and then trips him.
00:52:14.000 My dad was actually just talking about that one with me.
00:52:17.000 That's a very clean technique.
00:52:18.000 Toro.
00:52:20.000 But he is such a wild guy to watch because of the damage that he does to guys' legs.
00:52:25.000 Yeah.
00:52:26.000 So, this is what I love about the artistic aspect of it and the technical aspect when people figure out, okay, what do you do when you're fighting a guy like this?
00:52:33.000 Well, Jonathan Haggerty figured it out.
00:52:36.000 It's constant switch stances, constant knees to the body, moving, jabbing, constant movement.
00:52:42.000 You never let him get set up for those.
00:52:44.000 You know, and he took a lot of leg kicks and that, but he landed way more than he took and he won the decision against Yozos.
00:52:50.000 It was a big win, but it was also like a blueprint.
00:52:53.000 Like, if people got to see that fight, they see it.
00:52:55.000 So, you can find that fight.
00:52:56.000 Jonathan Haggerty and Yuki Yoza.
00:52:58.000 He did a really good job of picking that front leg up.
00:53:00.000 And that's going back to MMA, it's something that it's still developing.
00:53:03.000 But I don't see a lot of guys defend the calf kick.
00:53:06.000 I see a lot of guys willingly eat them.
00:53:09.000 Yes.
00:53:09.000 And it's like you do that with the shin guards on.
00:53:11.000 You could probably spar all day and take calf kicks, you know?
00:53:14.000 Sort of.
00:53:15.000 If they're landing clean, like really clean, yeah, you're going to feel it.
00:53:18.000 Yeah.
00:53:18.000 But for the most part, you pick the leg up, you pull it back a little bit, it doesn't land super flush.
00:53:22.000 You could take it with shin guards on.
00:53:25.000 You take one good one with no shin guards on.
00:53:27.000 It's a completely different game.
00:53:29.000 It takes, you know, you're that leg away from you.
00:53:31.000 This episode is brought to you by Superpower.
00:53:33.000 Your doctor spends eight minutes with you, and your insurance decides what blood work you get.
00:53:38.000 That's not healthcare.
00:53:40.000 It's a broken system.
00:53:41.000 With Superpower, you take control.
00:53:43.000 It starts by testing over 150 biomarkers.
00:53:47.000 But what really sets Superpower apart from other blood testing companies is what comes next.
00:53:53.000 They connect your blood work with real time, wearable data, health history, and Genetics to uncover patterns others miss and deliver personalized guidance you can't get anywhere else.
00:54:05.000 This is healthcare built for individuals, not institutions.
00:54:09.000 Go to superpower.com slash Rogan to save $50 on your membership.
00:54:14.000 Yeah, so look how Jonathan is never stationary, constantly switching stances.
00:54:19.000 Look, I mean, literally, constantly and constant movement.
00:54:22.000 And then when you're thinking about the legs, the jab, the step forward knee, everything is constant movement.
00:54:28.000 There's never a chance for Yoza to set up and nice.
00:54:31.000 Bending back kick to the body there.
00:54:32.000 That was so close, too.
00:54:34.000 He's wicked, man.
00:54:34.000 I know.
00:54:35.000 This dude's wicked.
00:54:36.000 But Haggerty figured him out, man.
00:54:38.000 Look at that.
00:54:39.000 Outside low kick on a hop.
00:54:40.000 I mean, in constant stance switches and that switch knee to the body.
00:54:44.000 Look, Yoza's looking for those, man.
00:54:46.000 You could only take so many of them from this guy, too.
00:54:49.000 He's got fucking stones for shins.
00:54:51.000 Yeah.
00:54:52.000 Yeah, you got no nerve endings.
00:54:54.000 It's from anything below the knees.
00:54:56.000 It's really incredible, man.
00:54:57.000 Watching this fight is a real masterclass in striking.
00:55:01.000 And this is one thing that I always give credit to one for.
00:55:05.000 I think one has the absolute best strikers when it comes to just pure striking.
00:55:10.000 Right.
00:55:10.000 And the exciting guys that they have over there.
00:55:14.000 Asadullah Iman Ghazaliya, have you seen that guy fight?
00:55:17.000 Yeah.
00:55:17.000 He's my favorite.
00:55:19.000 I fucking love watching that guy fight.
00:55:21.000 It's like, Jesus Christ, he's good.
00:55:23.000 And one of the guys that he trains with just fought in the PFL, Megametov.
00:55:27.000 Did you see that fight?
00:55:28.000 No.
00:55:29.000 I forget how to say his name.
00:55:31.000 It's like, I think it's Abu or I forget his name.
00:55:35.000 But he put on a masterclass in striking.
00:55:37.000 And he looked just like Azadullah Imam Ghazaliyev, like the way he was fighting, like that style.
00:55:43.000 Long, tall striker.
00:55:46.000 And these Dagestan guys, man.
00:55:48.000 Dagestan's got elite Muay Thai, too.
00:55:51.000 That's what's crazy.
00:55:52.000 Yeah, that's the dude.
00:55:53.000 Amru.
00:55:54.000 Amru Magamerov.
00:55:55.000 Well, speaking of that, show me a little bit of that because this cat, he fights just like Asadula, like very similar.
00:56:02.000 And I know they're from the same place.
00:56:04.000 You talk about artistic, that's like Zabit.
00:56:08.000 Yeah.
00:56:09.000 And he was kind of the first of those guys that you go, oh, I think of these guys as wrestlers.
00:56:14.000 Yeah.
00:56:15.000 He's throwing 360 roundhouse kicks and wheel kicks.
00:56:15.000 But look at this guy.
00:56:18.000 So he was doing like, I don't know, not kung fu, but one of those practices before he was ever wrestling.
00:56:24.000 Yes.
00:56:26.000 Yeah, it was like Sanshu or something.
00:56:28.000 But you watch this cat fight, he fights just like Azadula.
00:56:31.000 He's got that long reach, slick striking, wicked kicks.
00:56:37.000 He throws a lot of high kicks.
00:56:40.000 And that dude Alvarez that he's fighting was tough as shit, dude, because he took a lot before he finally wilted.
00:56:46.000 You can see he's hurting from the late kicks already before that.
00:56:49.000 Oh, he's getting destroyed.
00:56:51.000 This cat's vicious.
00:56:53.000 Being a long guy like that is just so much more beneficial.
00:56:56.000 That's why everybody thinks he's all these big muscle heads.
00:56:57.000 Like, Like the OG UFC, that's the fighter build.
00:57:02.000 The guy on top of the world.
00:57:05.000 It's like it's the tall, long, skinny guy that can strike well.
00:57:09.000 That's the perfect MMA build.
00:57:10.000 Yeah, because they can strike you from six inches away from where you can strike them.
00:57:14.000 That's a crazy advantage.
00:57:16.000 Yeah, that's back to where it was with Ty on Thursday, whatever it was.
00:57:21.000 And he's like, I want to say he said 78 inch reach.
00:57:25.000 Wow.
00:57:26.000 He's like, I have a 78 inch reach.
00:57:28.000 He's like, so I can touch you guys from this and that, and he's southpaw and blah, blah, blah.
00:57:31.000 But I'm like, well, yeah, like.
00:57:33.000 That's like a light heavyweight reach.
00:57:34.000 Yeah, it's like, well, no, dude, both of those guys have crazy long reach.
00:57:38.000 It's ridiculous.
00:57:39.000 Real long arms, real long legs.
00:57:41.000 Perfect for triangles, perfect for any kind of darts, guillotines, anything.
00:57:45.000 Rear naked with an arm in.
00:57:47.000 Yeah, and then you fight southpaw like this.
00:57:49.000 It's like you can touch from a million miles away.
00:57:51.000 That's what me, I'm the opposite.
00:57:53.000 My whole style is all the way out or all the way in.
00:57:55.000 I got to get in and get to work in there, you know?
00:57:58.000 And there's something to be said about that, too, because those two styles cancel each other out.
00:58:03.000 If you have a long guy, He's not going to fight as well on the inside.
00:58:06.000 It's not saying that he can't, especially with the Muay Thai.
00:58:09.000 The way they clinch is actually very efficient.
00:58:13.000 And with the boxing stuff, opening stuff up and being able to get your longer limbs in there is perfectly viable as well.
00:58:20.000 It's just you've got to play off of your God-given talents and your assets.
00:58:26.000 And so the shorter guy is going to negate the long guy by getting inside.
00:58:30.000 And if the long guy can maintain the distance and keep him there, then he's going to win that.
00:58:34.000 Yeah, there's benefits to all body types.
00:58:36.000 It's just knowing what to do with that body type.
00:58:39.000 Like, look, Mike Tyson is arguably the greatest heavyweight of all time.
00:58:43.000 He's in the conversation with Ali and Joe Lewis, and there's a few guys that you could put into that category as the greatest heavyweight of all time.
00:58:55.000 And I think Mike Tyson, certainly in his prime, was right there.
00:58:59.000 Yeah.
00:58:59.000 You know, Lennox Lewis, you got to put Lennox Lewis in that conversation.
00:59:03.000 Even primetime Larry Holmes, you got to put him in that conversation.
00:59:07.000 Right.
00:59:07.000 But Mike Tyson.
00:59:08.000 Was 5'11, you know, as a heavyweight.
00:59:11.000 That's crazy.
00:59:12.000 And he was only like 215, 220 in his prime.
00:59:14.000 But that bobbing and weaving and constant movement, he would just overwhelm guys.
00:59:19.000 You see the tall guys putting their hands out.
00:59:21.000 They just, they were just dealing with this fucking Wolverine that was running towards them.
00:59:25.000 Yeah.
00:59:25.000 And, and I had just seen something from him or read a quote, and he, he said, it wasn't my physicality that was my greatest asset.
00:59:33.000 It was my elusiveness.
00:59:34.000 It was that I was so elusive that I could get in and I could get to work, you know?
00:59:38.000 And a lot of people, unless you're like a real practitioner or, you know, a student of the sport, they don't see that.
00:59:38.000 Yes.
00:59:47.000 They just see, they just see the bombs.
00:59:50.000 And they attribute that to he's got punching power.
00:59:53.000 He's this monster.
00:59:54.000 But there's just so much more intricate.
00:59:57.000 Like you said about Anderson, this is an art form.
01:00:02.000 It's a game of setting things up.
01:00:04.000 It's a chess match.
01:00:05.000 Everybody looks at it like it's checkers, but there's so many more moves that could be made and that need to be made to be the best at this.
01:00:12.000 And you really want to be appreciated by the people that understand that.
01:00:16.000 You don't want to be the guy that gives into the howls and the cheers of the casuals.
01:00:22.000 The real feeling, the good feeling that fighters get is when someone is a true student of the game who really understands what they like.
01:00:29.000 I love when you're doing this.
01:00:30.000 I love that thing you do.
01:00:33.000 That's what guys want to hear.
01:00:34.000 They want to hear from their fellow fighters.
01:00:39.000 When an elite fighter goes up to another elite fighter, it's like, bro, I fucking love what you're doing.
01:00:44.000 You can see they're like, thank you.
01:00:46.000 It hits different.
01:00:47.000 It means more.
01:00:49.000 When you know that a guy is really operating at a very high level.
01:00:52.000 Right.
01:00:52.000 Yeah, because of the rest of the people.
01:00:54.000 Have never stepped room into even a gym to spar or like go a couple rounds of grappling, you know?
01:00:59.000 So it's.
01:01:00.000 They oftentimes don't know what they're seeing.
01:01:01.000 They have no understanding.
01:01:02.000 Sometimes they think when the guy's missing, it's because he sucks.
01:01:05.000 You know what is funny is that even I have had that realization because like growing up, it was like me and my pops watching UFC.
01:01:12.000 And to me, you know, that was my thing.
01:01:15.000 But I would always sit there and go, well, why doesn't this guy do this?
01:01:19.000 Just do that.
01:01:19.000 It's right there.
01:01:20.000 It's right there.
01:01:20.000 It's like, dude, you're not standing in a cage surrounded by thousands of people.
01:01:25.000 You don't have the same fatigue.
01:01:26.000 You don't know injuries you're going into with it.
01:01:28.000 You don't know what you practice leading up to it that you even have the capacity to think about and to act on.
01:01:35.000 It's like there's just so many things.
01:01:36.000 So, like, I watch stuff now and I'm so much better at that because I'm sitting there going, he could do that, but I don't know what he's seeing.
01:01:44.000 You know, I don't know what's going on in his mind.
01:01:45.000 So, yeah, there's different levels to it.
01:01:48.000 Yeah, for sure.
01:01:49.000 It's, I mean, it's a very complex game.
01:01:52.000 It really is.
01:01:53.000 I wanted to ask you a question.
01:01:54.000 Do you think that it was a benefit for you to lose your first two fights?
01:01:59.000 Do you think there's maybe something to that?
01:02:01.000 Because we were talking about your first two opponents in the UFC being undefeated until they fought you.
01:02:06.000 They had never experienced loss as a professional before.
01:02:10.000 And then they get on this crazy big hype thing.
01:02:13.000 And there's something about being undefeated as well, especially when you're a guy like Wellmaker who's not just undefeated but a knockout artist.
01:02:20.000 Like people get really, really jazzed up and excited about that.
01:02:24.000 Do you think that maybe having that bad feeling of loss earlier in your career maybe grounded you more?
01:02:31.000 Yeah, certainly.
01:02:34.000 I went 6 0 undefeated as an amateur, but I can tell you at that time, I was not living a fighter's lifestyle to the fullest.
01:02:43.000 At that time, I would literally go to practice in the morning, and then I had to go to work at night or whatever, but I was like, man, fighting is the best.
01:02:51.000 You just go wake up, practice once, you get to kick it the whole rest of the day, you get to go fight and make all this money and live your dream.
01:02:57.000 That's all it takes.
01:02:59.000 This is cool.
01:03:00.000 And I went in all these amateur scene fights, which that's what the amateurs are for.
01:03:04.000 Learning and getting your experience.
01:03:05.000 But, yeah, it really showed me that there was change that needed to be made in what I did with fighting and what I did outside of fighting.
01:03:18.000 And outside of fighting was arguably more important.
01:03:22.000 There was a lot that I needed to change, a lot that I needed to refocus on and make right by.
01:03:28.000 And it wasn't until I did those things that I saw this drastic change.
01:03:36.000 That I erased all the negatives and then filled it with all the positives that I'm able to be on a 10 fight win streak doing what I'm doing now because who knows?
01:03:46.000 I mean, maybe, maybe I would have changed that, but I don't think it would have been as drastic if I hadn't experienced those two losses the way I did.
01:03:55.000 So before those two losses, your first two professional fights, were you kind of off?
01:04:01.000 Yeah, for sure.
01:04:02.000 Yeah.
01:04:02.000 What were you doing?
01:04:04.000 Just everything.
01:04:05.000 I mean, drinking, partying, smoking, drinking.
01:04:08.000 Being a delinquent, being not the best partner.
01:04:12.000 How old were you back then?
01:04:14.000 I came back from college in 2017.
01:04:17.000 I tore my meniscus in a dual meet, and then my coach was.
01:04:22.000 Same knee?
01:04:23.000 My right knee.
01:04:24.000 Different knee.
01:04:25.000 Coach was an asshole about it.
01:04:26.000 I snap, crackle, popped all the way through the rest of the season.
01:04:29.000 Wasn't until after I was a kid.
01:04:30.000 Coach was an asshole about it in what way?
01:04:31.000 You didn't want to admit it?
01:04:32.000 He just ignored it completely.
01:04:33.000 He just pretty much told me to suck it up.
01:04:36.000 Oh, what a great coach.
01:04:38.000 Yeah, exactly.
01:04:39.000 That's why I didn't go back.
01:04:40.000 I mean,.
01:04:41.000 It was a lot of things.
01:04:42.000 I was in Bristol, Tennessee.
01:04:43.000 So it's like there's not a whole lot to do out there coming from SoCal.
01:04:46.000 So that was a culture shock.
01:04:49.000 I was on my own for the very first time.
01:04:51.000 And then, yeah, I got hurt.
01:04:53.000 So then I started, I don't know, everybody else is out there partying and stuff.
01:04:56.000 I never partied.
01:04:56.000 I grew up very religious.
01:04:58.000 I was very strict.
01:05:00.000 All throughout high school, I didn't touch anything.
01:05:02.000 I didn't look anything.
01:05:03.000 I didn't want to partake in anything.
01:05:06.000 I just wrestled.
01:05:07.000 My only drug was wrestling back then.
01:05:09.000 That's all I did.
01:05:10.000 And I had a lot of success then.
01:05:11.000 And it wasn't until I. From that course, and I started finding fun or enjoyment, or just maybe just trying to fill time and numb some of the things that I was thinking about or worrying about, or like that wrestling thing.
01:05:28.000 It might not have been the biggest thing to people, but for me, that was my first time experiencing where I had just placed eighth in California State.
01:05:36.000 I was fifth at the national tournament.
01:05:38.000 I was just doing everything right.
01:05:40.000 I had won the U.S. Open for my age division.
01:05:43.000 And then I go to this, and I'm on my own for the first time, and I have all this adversity, and it's just like, I don't know, I just felt like, why is this happening to me?
01:05:52.000 You know, I felt like I had been abandoned at that point.
01:05:56.000 And maybe other people would have recovered from it better, but that was a first time experience for me.
01:06:00.000 So, but yeah, I was barely 19 years old around that time.
01:06:03.000 I think I probably started fighting around in the amateurs around 20.
01:06:07.000 So I was relatively young, but.
01:06:09.000 So that's when you started partying?
01:06:10.000 I was.
01:06:11.000 As soon as I tore my meniscus, I finished out the wrestling season, and then.
01:06:16.000 I remember, like, even school, like, slouched off.
01:06:18.000 Like, I wasn't really caring about school too much.
01:06:21.000 We had finals.
01:06:22.000 I didn't really even try too hard.
01:06:24.000 And then I went.
01:06:25.000 I remember that day, as soon as the last final was done, we all went to my buddy's house.
01:06:31.000 And that's the first time I ever got drunk, like, ever.
01:06:33.000 And so, it's not to say that those things are, like, the end of the world if you're controlling them, but I certainly wasn't, you know?
01:06:39.000 I had, like, a lot of compounding things being first time.
01:06:42.000 And that carried over.
01:06:44.000 It was, like, that all the way up until.
01:06:48.000 Yeah, uh, it was after that second loss.
01:06:52.000 I was probably still not doing what I needed to be doing to be a disciplined athlete, um, a respectable, just like, you know, good person, really.
01:07:02.000 I wasn't being a good person.
01:07:04.000 And yeah, there was a lot of change, a lot of growth.
01:07:09.000 I had a lot of people guide me back into that.
01:07:12.000 And as soon as I made those changes, yeah, now I'm here, haven't been able to live and experience it because that's the best teacher out of all of them.
01:07:23.000 You can go and watch a YouTube video on how to do something, right?
01:07:25.000 Like fix a car.
01:07:26.000 Oh, I know exactly where the alternator is.
01:07:28.000 I know where this pump is.
01:07:30.000 I know how this connects to this.
01:07:31.000 Then the second you open it up, It's like, okay, well, I didn't know I needed this tool, and wow, this is way harder to pull off.
01:07:38.000 And it's the experience, it's the hardship and experience that teaches you things.
01:07:42.000 So, 100%.
01:07:43.000 If I hadn't gone through that, who knows where I'd be and what I'd be doing right now.
01:07:49.000 When you hurt your knee in college, was that the first time you'd ever done where you had an injury where it completely compromised your ability to perform?
01:07:58.000 Or you realized, like, oh, my body's very vulnerable?
01:08:04.000 So, I had actually sprained my ankle.
01:08:07.000 It's called the OC Duels.
01:08:08.000 It's like the number one and number two in Orange County face off.
01:08:12.000 And I had torn up my ankle pretty good.
01:08:16.000 And that was going into league and then CIF and all that stuff.
01:08:20.000 And I had almost worried that I wouldn't be able to wrestle, which is a big thing.
01:08:24.000 Luckily, I was able to wrestle on that.
01:08:26.000 But yes, I guess the meniscus was probably the first time where it really took me out of my game like that.
01:08:32.000 And to me, it was more of a.
01:08:35.000 I don't know if it was a vulnerability of the body.
01:08:38.000 Like I. Had come to terms with that.
01:08:41.000 I understood that.
01:08:46.000 I don't know.
01:08:47.000 Maybe I thought there was a higher power protecting me.
01:08:50.000 And at that moment, I was no longer protected and I had been abandoned.
01:08:53.000 And that's kind of what got to me, honestly, is I thought God had abandoned me essentially at that time.
01:09:01.000 Really?
01:09:01.000 You didn't think maybe God would.
01:09:03.000 Did you even consider that it was a challenge?
01:09:06.000 Well, I can look back on it and say with certainty that it is.
01:09:09.000 You were young.
01:09:10.000 I was young, and that's.
01:09:12.000 That's why I said I clouded my mind with a bunch of other things and instead of focusing on it and thinking about it clearly, I just moved farther away from the issue.
01:09:20.000 So, like at that time, that's what I thought.
01:09:22.000 Now, being a mature man, having grown my relationship with God, having read and studied and understanding that, like I said, those hardships are what build us.
01:09:33.000 That's what tests our faith and what really brings us closer to God.
01:09:37.000 Now I see that it wasn't as big as I had made it, you know, but I learned and maybe fallen farther down the path.
01:09:45.000 Taught me even more.
01:09:46.000 Yeah, I think it does.
01:09:48.000 I think failing is actually a very good teacher.
01:09:51.000 I really do.
01:09:52.000 I think in all aspects of your life.
01:09:54.000 And especially when you're a young person, you have this idea of who you are.
01:09:58.000 Having that get knocked down where you have to rebuild is very important because once you rebuild and you realize, like, okay, now I know what I'm capable of, now I know that there's going to be ups and downs, but I must maintain the path.
01:10:13.000 Right.
01:10:14.000 Did you have to get your knee fixed?
01:10:15.000 Did you have to do anything to it?
01:10:17.000 Yeah, they did a scope on it.
01:10:18.000 So they shaved the part that was hanging away, which to me, I wish I had never done.
01:10:23.000 Because that knee gives me issues to today.
01:10:23.000 Yeah.
01:10:26.000 Like any of this inversion, like a triangle choke with the right leg going over, that meniscus, it was my lateral meniscus outside.
01:10:33.000 It rolls over and it catches.
01:10:35.000 So then I got to bring my leg straight and pop it back into place.
01:10:38.000 And it's gotten better.
01:10:40.000 You know, I get through it quicker these days.
01:10:43.000 They tell you to not even get that surgery now.
01:10:45.000 Well, so my second professional fight where I got.
01:10:50.000 Ankle locked.
01:10:51.000 I got, I think it was like an outside reap, and I went to sit up to grab it, and he had the position locked, and my knee just went like eight times in my ear, real bad.
01:11:02.000 And it was in the same exact spot that lateral meniscus, that outer, which I don't know what other ligament is on the outside there, but to me, it was like exactly where the meniscus on the right leg had happened.
01:11:16.000 But I grabbed up or sat up, I grabbed his arms, I kept trying to fight through it, and then he switched it over to the heel hook on the other side.
01:11:23.000 My ankle popped twice as I rolled, and I finally tapped then.
01:11:27.000 But I didn't even get an MRI on that one.
01:11:29.000 I tried to.
01:11:30.000 It took so long that I was doing the knees over toes and strengthening, and I was starting to move on it that by the time they're like, okay, we can get your MRI in a week, I'm like, dude, I'm already moving and exercising and doing stuff on this.
01:11:41.000 Like, I was cool.
01:11:43.000 But yeah, I never did anything with that.
01:11:45.000 And that knee's really never given me any issues.
01:11:48.000 And then the one I got the scope on still bothers me to today.
01:11:52.000 Yeah, they don't recommend that anymore because they did a study of people that have had meniscus surgery.
01:11:58.000 Versus not having meniscus surgery and just rehabilitation.
01:12:02.000 And it shows that rehabilitation seems to be the better path.
01:12:05.000 Yeah.
01:12:05.000 I mean, especially for like, I have one that's been scoped and it bothers me all the time.
01:12:10.000 That's the one I got shot up today.
01:12:12.000 Okay.
01:12:12.000 It always bothers me.
01:12:13.000 It's like there's missing padding on one side of it, it's missing.
01:12:16.000 But I had a bucket handle tear and in jujitsu it would lock and my leg would be stuffed, like stiff, and I could, like, push it back into place.
01:12:25.000 It was excruciating.
01:12:27.000 It was like stuck, locked out?
01:12:28.000 Yeah.
01:12:29.000 It would go back eventually.
01:12:29.000 Yeah.
01:12:31.000 But it would take, sometimes it would take a day before, and it would swell up, you know.
01:12:36.000 But if I knew, first of all, this is a long time ago.
01:12:39.000 Unfortunately, there was no stem cells available back then.
01:12:41.000 I would have 100% just done stem cells, and now I would have done the knees over toes stuff and a lot of cycling, like stationary bike cycling at not high resistance, is a fairly low resistance, is just repetitive motion.
01:12:54.000 It's really good for getting the blood flow to the knees and really good for strengthening up the tendons and the ligaments and everything, but without load.
01:13:03.000 You know, it's just.
01:13:05.000 You do it at like a very low resistance and just for a long time.
01:13:08.000 Right.
01:13:08.000 And that's really good for your knees.
01:13:10.000 Sweet.
01:13:10.000 Yeah.
01:13:11.000 I mean, there's so many things.
01:13:12.000 Like, I think even like leg extensions would probably be like a good little exercise for the knees.
01:13:17.000 I mean, it's a pretty deliberate spot.
01:13:19.000 I think, you know, like backpacking, I think like a controlled version of that because there's a lot of times you're, you know, you're dropping down like pretty heavily, this and that, which is probably not the best impact on the knee.
01:13:29.000 Yeah.
01:13:30.000 Yeah.
01:13:30.000 But if you were doing it like, because that's kind of the knees over toes, is he's doing some similar motions.
01:13:35.000 If you had some, maybe not as much weight.
01:13:38.000 Some weight on your back, you could slowly kind of find that and then have a soft landing.
01:13:42.000 Like, I don't know, I was backpacking recently and I was just thinking about this.
01:13:45.000 Like, in a controlled setting, like in a gym, like on a machine that I'm like maybe not as much as like a steep incline or decline, like something like that would be really good.
01:13:53.000 And then the range of motion stuff is I've had, you know, with my injury and stuff and time to step away, I've had like a lot of opportunity to think and I feel like I've grown tremendously.
01:14:05.000 And it's like, yeah, all the little tiny things like the knees, like they're fine.
01:14:09.000 Like, I do it.
01:14:10.000 I really don't have an issue too much.
01:14:12.000 Like, maybe if I get into that position, it'll do it.
01:14:15.000 But it's like, you know, what happens when I do get into like a position, let's say a leg lock position, for example, or like a straight knee bar?
01:14:23.000 And, you know, what if my flexibility is an issue there?
01:14:27.000 Or just simply like a wizard position where the knee is getting popped up.
01:14:29.000 Like, just any.
01:14:31.000 There's a million and one positions that the knees could be compromised there.
01:14:33.000 And so, yeah, it's going back, doing a lot of range of motion stuff, a lot of strengthening on the knees.
01:14:40.000 Do you do polyquin step downs?
01:14:42.000 Do you know those?
01:14:43.000 No.
01:14:44.000 Charles Poliquin, see if you can find Poliquin, very simple.
01:14:47.000 You're essentially doing it either you're doing it from an incline board with like a little bit of elevation, or you're just doing it from a straight up step.
01:14:56.000 And what you're doing is you're just lowering yourself down.
01:15:00.000 So one foot is above on the step, and the other foot you're lowering like that, like there.
01:15:04.000 There you go.
01:15:05.000 He's doing it on plates.
01:15:07.000 Very simple, very simple, right?
01:15:09.000 I mean, you're literally only going like 10 inches, but you're going up and down like that.
01:15:14.000 And it's just controlling the body weight like that.
01:15:17.000 Phenomenal for knee strengthening.
01:15:19.000 And for knee stability, it's excellent.
01:15:21.000 It's one of the best exercises.
01:15:23.000 Are you doing backwards pulls with either a sled or on a treadmill?
01:15:23.000 Sweet.
01:15:29.000 Do you walk backwards doing that?
01:15:31.000 I'm not doing really any exercises, weight, and I mean, I do little things for strength and conditioning after boxing, but I stay away from the weights.
01:15:42.000 But it's not even for the weights.
01:15:43.000 I'm talking, you do it on a treadmill.
01:15:46.000 You do it on a treadmill, just basically keep the treadmill off, and just with your own resistance, you step backwards.
01:15:52.000 So, you put your back to the screen and hold on to the bars, and you're basically just pushing with your legs going backwards.
01:15:59.000 And it's really good for strengthening your knees and also for blood flow.
01:16:02.000 That's a knees over toes guy thing.
01:16:05.000 His page is phenomenal.
01:16:06.000 I go to the 24 hour fitness and burn out their treadmill.
01:16:09.000 You can do that, or you could use a sled.
01:16:09.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:16:11.000 We do it with a sled here.
01:16:13.000 You put the sled, you put like a waist strap, and you just back up and pull the sled.
01:16:17.000 It doesn't have to be a lot of weight.
01:16:19.000 It's not a weight thing.
01:16:20.000 It's really just a circulation thing and a strengthening thing.
01:16:23.000 He has another one that.
01:16:26.000 You get the band around your back, and then you're kind of.
01:16:29.000 I forgot how he did it.
01:16:32.000 You're essentially like leaned over and then straightening the leg.
01:16:36.000 You're like in a lunge, I guess, actually.
01:16:38.000 You're in a lunge, the knee goes over the toes, you have the resistance on the back, and then you're pushing and essentially doing the same thing as probably walking back with the sled.
01:16:47.000 The band is attached in the front or behind you?
01:16:49.000 It's attached in the front.
01:16:50.000 So the resistance is pulling you forward.
01:16:52.000 Okay.
01:16:53.000 And you're lunged over the knee, the knee over the toe.
01:16:56.000 And then you're extending that leg and it's just hitting that knee perfectly.
01:17:01.000 It's very similar to the one you're talking about, I'm sure.
01:17:03.000 Yeah, because so much time you spend pushing forward, and not a lot of people spend much time pushing backwards, but pushing backwards is really important.
01:17:11.000 It's really important to just overall knee strength.
01:17:14.000 Right.
01:17:16.000 I think the side to side stuff too is like, I was almost like, let me get in the sand.
01:17:20.000 And I do a lot of working out in the sand just for the boxing, for the footwork, and being able to stay in a stance.
01:17:27.000 Like that little side explosion stuff would probably start strengthening those muscles on the side and the ligaments going that way.
01:17:34.000 And then I'm trying to think, like, you know, how do you get that motion?
01:17:38.000 I mean, you could get a band and probably do kind of like a lateral extension or pull it up into an inward extension.
01:17:46.000 You know who used to do a lot of weird shit with bands?
01:17:48.000 BJ Penn.
01:17:49.000 Oh, yeah.
01:17:49.000 He did a lot of weird shit in his prime with like flexibility stuff and developing strength from weird positions with bands.
01:17:56.000 Huh.
01:17:57.000 Yeah, I see.
01:18:00.000 I don't know if BJ was a part of that program, but like the Rafael Dos Santos, all the fascia kind of stuff.
01:18:06.000 Yeah.
01:18:07.000 Yeah.
01:18:07.000 Well, Rafael Dos Santos was training with Nick Kerson.
01:18:11.000 Nick Kerson was a student of Marv Marinovich.
01:18:14.000 Okay.
01:18:14.000 And Marv Marinovich is the guy who trained BJ when he was like in his prime, when he really got super serious about cardio.
01:18:21.000 But it's a very controversial approach.
01:18:23.000 The Marinovich's approach was you already know how to fight, so forget about fight training.
01:18:29.000 We're just going to give you the most fucking insane gas tank you've ever had, and that way you'll be able to execute everything you want.
01:18:35.000 And so the primary focus was just plyometrics and their conditioning program.
01:18:39.000 And it was hell.
01:18:41.000 Right.
01:18:41.000 And BJ did not like going through it.
01:18:43.000 But when he went through it, he was like unstoppable.
01:18:45.000 Yeah.
01:18:45.000 Because he just never gassed.
01:18:47.000 Right.
01:18:48.000 And that's the interesting thing about conditioning in general we have these ideas of what the threshold is, like what a human body's capable of doing for five minutes, for three rounds, or five rounds, like in terms of what kind of pace that you could put up.
01:19:03.000 And then you have certain guys that come along that sort of redefine what the threshold is, like Mirab.
01:19:09.000 Mirab comes along, and here you got some guy whose gas tank is fucking superhuman, and he makes the best fighters in the world just wilt under this constant pressure of being taken down.
01:19:21.000 And his strength and his skill as a wrestler is just this constant attack, constant, constant, constant, constant.
01:19:29.000 And you wonder, like, okay, how long did it take to build up that reserve?
01:19:33.000 How long did it take to build up that gas tank?
01:19:35.000 That's not something you can achieve in just one camp.
01:19:39.000 That's something that takes literally years to develop.
01:19:42.000 Oh, for sure.
01:19:43.000 That's why, I mean, like I said, going back to wrestling, what I would say is my superpower, my most utilized skill set was my cardio, my gas tank, you know?
01:19:55.000 And I don't know.
01:19:57.000 What is it?
01:19:57.000 Anabolic versus anaerobic?
01:19:59.000 Like the striking versus the grappling cardio?
01:20:03.000 I think there's something to be said about that wrestling cardio.
01:20:07.000 Like, just that, like, strict, you're just grinding it out 24 7.
01:20:11.000 You know, you're always colliding, your muscles are always tensed up.
01:20:14.000 I think there's something to be said about that.
01:20:16.000 That if you had great wrestling cardio, you could do almost anything in the world.
01:20:19.000 Yeah.
01:20:20.000 It builds up a foundation that's kind of unstoppable.
01:20:23.000 Right.
01:20:24.000 If you can maintain that kind of work ethic.
01:20:26.000 Right.
01:20:29.000 That's the other thing about it.
01:20:29.000 It's the mental toughness that comes from wrestling.
01:20:33.000 When a guy has an elite wrestling background and he enters into the UFC, I always say they have an advantage.
01:20:38.000 They have an advantage over everybody else because whether or not you choose to put yourself or you get coached by someone who puts you through hell in camp, with wrestling, you don't have a choice.
01:20:48.000 Everyone's going through hell.
01:20:51.000 There's no easy path to get on a fucking wrestling team anywhere in the country.
01:20:56.000 You have to wrestle for your position.
01:20:57.000 It's literally.
01:20:59.000 You got to battle for that spot, you know?
01:21:01.000 And then the practice is once or twice a day of just purely grinding it out.
01:21:06.000 Standing in a wrestling stance alone is extremely tough to do.
01:21:09.000 Now you're doing it at elevated pace.
01:21:11.000 Now you're doing it with something snapping on your head.
01:21:13.000 Now you're doing it.
01:21:14.000 And then you go and you do live wrestling and then finish it up with sprints.
01:21:17.000 Yeah, to me, there's nothing that beats that.
01:21:21.000 And I think the style of it is like go, go, go.
01:21:26.000 Like even jiu jitsu, you're finding places to rest.
01:21:28.000 You know, you can throw in the guard and, and, You can rest in certain entanglements.
01:21:34.000 Striking is all about being able to have an explosive motion and then find your way to be defensive, to slow down what they're doing.
01:21:42.000 You're either getting in and stuffing it, you're at a distance where you can be a little bit relaxed because they can't reach you, or you're moving off, making the miss where there's no resistance there.
01:21:53.000 Just with wrestling, you don't have any of that.
01:21:55.000 There's no chance for a break, especially if you've got someone like Mirab who's just on you 24 7.
01:22:00.000 And so to me, that's.
01:22:03.000 You know, back to the cardio thing we talked about earlier, I don't know.
01:22:06.000 I think if you got, yeah, elite wrestling cardio, then you could do all the rest of it.
01:22:10.000 You'd be able to strike.
01:22:11.000 You'd be able to do the jiu jitsu entanglements.
01:22:14.000 Like, you can hang for that duration of time with great cardio.
01:22:18.000 It's also, if you could figure out how to be a great wrestler, you can kind of figure out anything.
01:22:23.000 It's just a matter of taking that same focus that turned you into a great wrestler and applying it to whatever it is MMA, whatever else you're trying to do.
01:22:31.000 It's just if you're willing to go through what it took to become a great wrestler, that's an extraordinary human.
01:22:36.000 Yeah.
01:22:36.000 Very few people ever reach a very high level of wrestling.
01:22:40.000 It's just too fucking hard.
01:22:42.000 And it's the best foundation for combat sports, for sure, for MMA.
01:22:46.000 Because if you could take a guy down and he can't take you down, that's a massive advantage.
01:22:51.000 You dictate where the fight takes place.
01:22:51.000 Massive.
01:22:53.000 And if you develop elite striking on top of that, it's a perfect combination.
01:22:58.000 I mean, anybody asking me personally, I would say get a wrestling background, get some boxing, you can figure out the rest of it.
01:22:58.000 Oh, for sure.
01:23:07.000 You can figure out how to check kicks, block kicks, you can do the rest of it.
01:23:10.000 But if you have those two fundamental core bases, yeah, you're pretty good against most people.
01:23:15.000 I would say that too.
01:23:16.000 But I would say another thing is, and this is very controversial.
01:23:20.000 If I was teaching a young kid, I would say, get into point karate.
01:23:25.000 Learn point karate.
01:23:27.000 Because if you could learn how to move the way those guys move, the things that those guys, when you see like Michael Venn and Page just stump people, they're just stumped.
01:23:35.000 Like I don't have any, like Kevin Holland, who fights everybody.
01:23:39.000 He's fucking competitive with everybody he fights.
01:23:42.000 With MVP, he was just stumped.
01:23:44.000 Like, what am I going to do?
01:23:45.000 What the fuck am I doing?
01:23:45.000 I can't even touch this guy.
01:23:47.000 Right.
01:23:47.000 That is a giant skill set.
01:23:50.000 And I always said before MVP came onto the scene, I'm like, one of these guys, one of these really elite point fighter guys, is going to come in and start fucking everybody up because you can't hit them.
01:23:59.000 Yeah.
01:24:00.000 Yeah.
01:24:00.000 And that goes back, like, him and, like, Wonderboy are both the prime examples of a karate style individual.
01:24:07.000 Yes.
01:24:08.000 And they're really long.
01:24:09.000 So, you know, they can utilize that a little bit to their advantage with that lungy in and out.
01:24:14.000 But to be honest, yeah, that's something that, like, I've.
01:24:17.000 Wanted to delve into a little bit more with myself because I like I can throw kicks really well, honestly.
01:24:23.000 I have good flexibility, I have the ability to throw them with speed and power.
01:24:29.000 But having something like that where you can throw it nice and fast and snappy, those little side kicks and the way that they throw the kicks is great.
01:24:36.000 Yes, I mean, the only other relation I would have to that is the Savat style.
01:24:41.000 I like the way the Savat style guys throw their kicks.
01:24:43.000 I'm not very familiar with Savat.
01:24:45.000 The only thing that I don't utilize myself is a lot of the toe stuff.
01:24:49.000 Because I'm not wearing shoes.
01:24:51.000 Oh, like toe kicks to the body?
01:24:53.000 They're like stabbing you with their toes and everything.
01:24:55.000 Like, they're even kicking like your legs.
01:24:57.000 Well, you know, Yoza does that.
01:24:59.000 Yeah.
01:24:59.000 He stabs guys in the body with his toes.
01:25:01.000 It's like the ball of his foot, right?
01:25:02.000 But like.
01:25:03.000 He's going in with the toes, man.
01:25:04.000 There's a lot of like slow mo videos of him stabbing guys in the liver with his fucking toes.
01:25:04.000 Yeah.
01:25:10.000 You know who else is doing that?
01:25:11.000 They're conditioning their toes.
01:25:12.000 Well, that's the thing you better have some.
01:25:12.000 Yeah.
01:25:14.000 You'll probably have multiple breaks on each toe leading up to that.
01:25:19.000 Because it's just.
01:25:19.000 Yeah.
01:25:19.000 Yeah.
01:25:20.000 That's why we were talking about the front kick.
01:25:22.000 To the body is good if you do it like a traditional Muay Thai where you're going up and out, which is fantastic.
01:25:28.000 You can produce a lot of speed and power, but I think everybody does this kind of shovel up toes into the body kick nowadays in the MMA world.
01:25:36.000 That's what I see more so.
01:25:38.000 I mean, Connor utilized the heck out of that.
01:25:42.000 Most guys bring the toes up, and you better be very precise with that because all it takes is one elbow blocking down and your toes in half.
01:25:50.000 Did you see Rodriguez's toes after he fought Fluffy?
01:25:55.000 Yeah.
01:25:56.000 Do you see that picture?
01:25:57.000 Jimmy, pull that picture up.
01:25:58.000 It's off Gregory Rodriguez, his Instagram page.
01:26:02.000 After he beat Fluffy, he showed a photo of his.
01:26:05.000 You haven't seen it?
01:26:06.000 I haven't seen it, actually.
01:26:07.000 Oh, you're going to cringe.
01:26:09.000 It's hell.
01:26:09.000 Is it like a John Jones break?
01:26:11.000 Worse.
01:26:12.000 Ugh, bones are sticking out.
01:26:13.000 The bones aren't sticking out, but it's hellacious.
01:26:16.000 You look at what happened to his toes.
01:26:17.000 Dude, and that one, like, that takes it out of you.
01:26:19.000 You start smashing your toes like that, and you've got to continue fighting.
01:26:22.000 Oh, yeah.
01:26:22.000 Or you've got to continue into a fight camp with, like, broken toes.
01:26:26.000 Yeah.
01:26:26.000 Yeah.
01:26:26.000 That's what.
01:26:27.000 One of my wrestling camps, I was chasing my brother in the front yard the day before, and his heel came back, and my pinky toe was like this, straight sideways.
01:26:34.000 Went to the family doctor.
01:26:36.000 Oh, yeah.
01:26:38.000 Oh, yeah.
01:26:38.000 I have a picture just like that, actually, with my fingers, my toes throwing west side.
01:26:42.000 Oh, look at that.
01:26:43.000 Jesus.
01:26:46.000 Ow.
01:26:46.000 Yeah, that's terrible.
01:26:48.000 Those feet have seen some elbows, son.
01:26:50.000 Right.
01:26:51.000 It's got a big old bunions, everything on there.
01:26:54.000 Yeah, that's one.
01:26:54.000 Wow.
01:26:56.000 That's a.
01:26:58.000 He did it in really good fashion, too.
01:27:01.000 Yeah.
01:27:01.000 There's a guy that's just, I don't understand how he makes 185.
01:27:05.000 Right.
01:27:06.000 I don't understand it.
01:27:07.000 Whenever I interview him, I'm like, you're 220 pounds, sir.
01:27:11.000 Yeah.
01:27:11.000 How are you?
01:27:12.000 You're at least 220 and shredded.
01:27:15.000 I mean, it's like, I guess the bigger guys have a little bit more to lose.
01:27:15.000 I know.
01:27:20.000 They probably fall a little bit.
01:27:21.000 They definitely do.
01:27:22.000 Well, with all that muscle, you have water to lose for sure.
01:27:24.000 If you're shredded, I mean, that's one thing to be said.
01:27:24.000 Right.
01:27:27.000 But especially like heavyweights, like the Alex Paredes, I'm sure he gets a little bit looser, goes up to 220.
01:27:34.000 But that's still 40 pounds.
01:27:35.000 I mean, that's a lot of weight.
01:27:37.000 Yeah, it's a lot of weight to lose.
01:27:40.000 But I don't know.
01:27:41.000 I mean, look at.
01:27:42.000 Aljo cutting to 135.
01:27:45.000 Yeah.
01:27:46.000 He's like 175 pounds.
01:27:48.000 Yeah.
01:27:49.000 You know, I mean, I think.
01:27:50.000 But he doesn't do it anymore and he feels way better at 45.
01:27:53.000 And he had to move up because of that.
01:27:53.000 For sure.
01:27:55.000 I think a lot of the bantam weights get up to relatively that weight.
01:27:59.000 I think everybody.
01:28:00.000 I think that's why I've started seeing people try to comment the whole weight bully thing.
01:28:07.000 They've said it to me on Instagram, this and that.
01:28:10.000 They saw one of my training pictures where I was a little loose and they're like, the funniest comment was someone was like, Like, hire a nutritionist ASAP.
01:28:18.000 Like, and I was just cracking up at that.
01:28:20.000 Like, these guys are roasting me.
01:28:21.000 But, yeah, I think everybody cuts relatively the same amount of weight.
01:28:26.000 Like, how big do you get?
01:28:27.000 Like, what's the heaviest you get in between?
01:28:29.000 135.
01:28:31.000 No.
01:28:32.000 That's what you weigh, son.
01:28:33.000 What do you weigh when you thicken up?
01:28:35.000 What's the heaviest you've ever got?
01:28:36.000 Like, 175 is probably, give or take.
01:28:39.000 Maybe like 178 if I'm just full of food, eating and being a delinquent.
01:28:42.000 But, yeah, I get up there pretty big.
01:28:45.000 So, when you're in camp, like the week before, what do you like to be at?
01:28:49.000 I've had all my cuts right around 150.
01:28:52.000 I don't really get much lower than that.
01:28:54.000 That's not too bad.
01:28:55.000 It's not the end of the world.
01:28:57.000 I mean, 149, 148, 145 would be beautiful.
01:29:01.000 If I could just do 10, it would be no problem.
01:29:03.000 But this last time we did 11 in one night, and it was smooth sailing.
01:29:09.000 That's another thing.
01:29:10.000 You experience it more, you get better and better at it.
01:29:12.000 And I've gotten wiser that the sauna doesn't have to be a million and 10 degrees.
01:29:20.000 The USC portable saunas, I think it maxed out at 150, it said.
01:29:24.000 And I could sit in that for 22, 23.
01:29:26.000 Is that a red light sauna?
01:29:27.000 The portable ones?
01:29:30.000 It probably is, right?
01:29:32.000 Probably is.
01:29:33.000 I don't recall, but I'm sure it is.
01:29:35.000 But that with the emergency blankets and then cooling off in between, that's something that I had to get wiser to as well.
01:29:43.000 Because everybody tries to tell you, you're already there.
01:29:45.000 You're already sweating.
01:29:47.000 Don't lose the heat.
01:29:48.000 And it's like, no, dude, this isn't a sprint.
01:29:50.000 This is a marathon.
01:29:51.000 We're taking this nice and easy.
01:29:52.000 So.
01:29:53.000 Like this last time, I was taking all my gear off, putting ice on the body, cooling the body temperature back down, which is arguably the most important aspect of the whole weight cut the body temperature versus the dehydration.
01:30:05.000 Because the body gets dehydrated and it has more of a capacity to deal with that than it does to overheat.
01:30:12.000 If you overheat, you're done for.
01:30:13.000 Like that's it, is what it is.
01:30:14.000 So, is the overheating, does that drain you more in terms of like your ability to recover for the next day?
01:30:20.000 Like, so when you're cutting weight, if you're doing it at like 180 or something like that, something high.
01:30:25.000 And is it that, like, because it does wear you out, obviously.
01:30:27.000 Like, if I do a sauna session for 20 minutes when I get out, I'm tired.
01:30:31.000 Yeah.
01:30:31.000 So, you've got to think if you're doing multiple ones of those, if you're trying to make weight and then you have to fight the next day, you went through a lot physically.
01:30:38.000 Right.
01:30:39.000 As opposed to what you're doing.
01:30:40.000 If you got it at 150, it's not that bad.
01:30:44.000 It just sucks a little.
01:30:45.000 Yeah, because I've done both.
01:30:49.000 And you're throwing a sauna suit on as well.
01:30:51.000 You know, the sweet sweat, the sauna suit, and then you get in that portable sauna.
01:30:55.000 But it's like before I was doing that with a pair of, I don't know, like, spandex, you know, like top and bottom, and then a jacket, and then sweats, and then a big jacket, and then I'm getting in the 180, 190 degree, 24 hour sauna and sitting there for 15 minutes.
01:31:12.000 It's like, dude, yeah, I felt, there's been weight cuts where I just feel like terrible, atrocious.
01:31:17.000 I look terrible, you know?
01:31:19.000 And then I have some of these more recent ones where I lower the temperature down.
01:31:23.000 I extend the duration of how long the weight cut is itself, and there's a major difference in it for sure.
01:31:31.000 That's really good advice.
01:31:32.000 Work smarter, not harder.
01:31:34.000 Oh, dude, you've trained for two months over just pushing your body to the absolute limit.
01:31:39.000 You're going to go fight somebody for 15 minutes, you know, possibly 25 minutes.
01:31:44.000 There's all this hard stuff already happening.
01:31:46.000 You know, that part should not be hard.
01:31:48.000 That should be the.
01:31:49.000 It's going to be hard, but you should make it as easy as possible.
01:31:52.000 That should be the mindset to it.
01:31:54.000 Yeah, it makes sense.
01:31:55.000 It makes a lot of sense.
01:31:56.000 Did you see the Moses Itama fight this weekend?
01:32:00.000 I don't think so.
01:32:01.000 Do you know who he is, right?
01:32:02.000 No.
01:32:03.000 He.
01:32:03.000 No?
01:32:03.000 Okay.
01:32:04.000 Up until this fight, he was probably the most promising prospect in the heavyweight division in more than a decade.
01:32:12.000 He is a young guy.
01:32:14.000 He's only 21 years old, and people were talking about him being able to break Mike Tyson's record of being the youngest ever heavyweight champion.
01:32:22.000 So he missed that mark, and then he finally got a title fight this weekend.
01:32:27.000 Looked phenomenal for the first few rounds.
01:32:31.000 Oh, oh, oh, oh.
01:32:32.000 I know exactly what you're talking about.
01:32:33.000 Yes.
01:32:34.000 And he's fighting this big Croatian cat.
01:32:37.000 I'm Forget his name.
01:32:39.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:32:40.000 Philip Hergrozovic.
01:32:42.000 And he.
01:32:45.000 Stunned on him at first.
01:32:46.000 Yeah, in the beginning, he was tuning this guy up.
01:32:48.000 I mean, he's so fast and so leap, but he had never been into deep water before.
01:32:54.000 Every one of his fights, he'd been able to stop people.
01:32:56.000 And he hadn't had any real good decision wins where he fought a bit.
01:33:01.000 And he's not the biggest heavyweight, but he's wicked fast.
01:33:04.000 I mean, just wicked fast and beautiful technique, but.
01:33:08.000 As the fight went on, he started to fade.
01:33:11.000 And in the eighth, you could see him like really slowing down and just really trying to take this dude out, but couldn't and thought he could and was emptying the gas tank.
01:33:21.000 Instead of boxing him and just outpointing him and being skillful, he just was inexperienced and he emptied the gas tank.
01:33:28.000 And then Philip came back, man.
01:33:31.000 Yeah, and he finished him.
01:33:33.000 Yeah, well, he finished him in a weird way.
01:33:35.000 It's almost exhaustion.
01:33:36.000 Yeah, he was just stumbling over him.
01:33:38.000 Because they're both exhausted because it was a war.
01:33:38.000 At that point.
01:33:38.000 Yeah.
01:33:40.000 There's a nice right hand, and he stung them there.
01:33:42.000 Well, did you see their little table talk where they're sitting across from each other?
01:33:46.000 Yes.
01:33:47.000 And he's all like, it's not about how many times you can get hit or you can hit somebody.
01:33:53.000 It's about how many times you can get hit and keep coming forward.
01:33:56.000 And then Moises is like, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
01:33:56.000 Yeah.
01:33:59.000 He's like, why would you base your fighting style off how many times you can get hit?
01:34:03.000 And then lo and behold, this comes across.
01:34:06.000 That's why I talk about technicality and finesse and skill set, and it's a game of hit and don't get hit.
01:34:13.000 But.
01:34:13.000 Dude, you could just have someone who's just so tough and just so willing that this is a perfect scenario.
01:34:20.000 That's why there are so many aspects to this fight game.
01:34:23.000 Well, it was really funny because he was basically quoting Rocky.
01:34:26.000 Yeah.
01:34:27.000 He really did quote Rocky.
01:34:28.000 It ain't about how hard you hit.
01:34:30.000 It's about how hard you can get hit.
01:34:32.000 And keep moving forward.
01:34:32.000 Right.
01:34:33.000 Exactly.
01:34:34.000 And he, you know, and he pulled a rocky on that.
01:34:36.000 He literally did exactly what he said he was going to do.
01:34:38.000 But it's all these things.
01:34:39.000 It's like youth and hubris and thinking you're the greatest of all time and looked like the greatest of all time.
01:34:46.000 Pull up a Moses Itama highlight reel.
01:34:49.000 Because if you look at his highlight reel, you're like, this guy's the second coming.
01:34:52.000 Like, this guy is something really special, man.
01:34:56.000 When you watch how he fights, I mean, his hand speed, his knockout power.
01:35:01.000 And for a young guy, you know, this fight, I think he was 20, and you look at his highlight reel, you're like, oh my God, the sky's the limit for this kid.
01:35:09.000 He's just putting everybody out.
01:35:11.000 But, you know, he wasn't really being tested, you know, and then he finally, I think, was it Derek Chisora?
01:35:18.000 Who did he fight before this fight?
01:35:21.000 He finally beat a top level guy, and he took him out.
01:35:26.000 And so, but, you know, it was a guy who's a real veteran, been around a long time.
01:35:30.000 Uh huh.
01:35:31.000 And he kind of thought that he could put it on everybody and knock everybody out.
01:35:37.000 But, you know, this is like one of the things about any combat sport you have to know when to hit the gas, when not to, and you have to have those experiences of these long, grueling fights.
01:35:49.000 And he really didn't have that yet.
01:35:51.000 So his first experience with a.
01:35:53.000 Yeah, Dillion White, that's who it was.
01:35:55.000 And his long.
01:35:56.000 His first experience with a real.
01:36:00.000 No, it was Chisora, I think.
01:36:01.000 Because I think it was Dillion White first.
01:36:04.000 And then Chisor was the next fight afterwards.
01:36:06.000 Am I right about that?
01:36:08.000 No, it's just his KOs on this video.
01:36:11.000 Bull up his record.
01:36:11.000 What is it?
01:36:12.000 Who was his last fight before Hergovich?
01:36:18.000 But, I mean, I still think he's got potential to be a world champion for sure.
01:36:21.000 I mean, the kid's only 21 years old.
01:36:25.000 Jermaine Franklin.
01:36:26.000 Dillian White, right there.
01:36:28.000 That's it, it wasn't Derek Chisor.
01:36:29.000 It was Dillian White.
01:36:33.000 And Jermaine Franklin was right after that.
01:36:34.000 So every Fight has been TKO, I mean, if you watch his fights, I mean, they're fucking stunning performances, but wasn't really being tested in that way with a really big, durable heavyweight who could take a shot, who, you know, has a ton of experience.
01:36:56.000 And, you know, now he's got his first loss, but he'll be back.
01:37:00.000 He's only 21.
01:37:00.000 Yeah.
01:37:01.000 Well, that's, you know, on the.
01:37:05.000 That's how they do in boxing.
01:37:06.000 They feed these guys.
01:37:07.000 Build them up, and then when they're solidified, now you fight somebody who's substantial, you know?
01:37:14.000 And that's, you know, I've done a lot of comparisons, but that's to me where the MMA guys are just more down to go and do their thing.
01:37:20.000 They'll fight anybody at any given time.
01:37:23.000 Is that by decision, though, or is that by necessity?
01:37:26.000 Because the UFC, you know, if they call you up and say, hey, in four weeks, do you want to fight for the world title?
01:37:34.000 I know you've never fought in the UFC before.
01:37:37.000 In boxing, that's unheard of.
01:37:38.000 That would never take place.
01:37:39.000 Right.
01:37:40.000 But in the UFC, if you're a pretty good fighter and you're doing well and you win a bunch of championships and other organizations, and all of a sudden this opportunity arises, we've had guys with their first fight in the UFC fight for the world title.
01:37:55.000 That is true.
01:37:56.000 I mean, that's what you get when you have a melting pot of things, though, because those guys are well established in their own personal careers.
01:38:05.000 True.
01:38:05.000 Wrestling or kickboxing or whatever it is.
01:38:09.000 Or Ryzen.
01:38:10.000 Yeah, it's not like you're pulling a, like, The local kid and telling him, let's go fight for a world title.
01:38:15.000 But they would pull out the local kid and fight a guy who has 10, 15 fights in the UFC.
01:38:20.000 That does happen.
01:38:21.000 That happens all the time.
01:38:21.000 Well, that's what I'm saying is like, I think that the boxers would be more hesitant to take something like that, like you're saying.
01:38:30.000 Yes.
01:38:30.000 But the MMA guys are always down to do that kind of stuff.
01:38:33.000 Well, the boxers, though.
01:38:34.000 It's a different culture, I suppose.
01:38:35.000 It is, but it's also the fact that no one gives a shit who the promoter is in boxing.
01:38:41.000 If someone's going to watch Javante Davis fight, they don't say, well, who's promoting this?
01:38:44.000 Hold on.
01:38:45.000 Is this for Bob Aram?
01:38:46.000 Is this for Golden Boy?
01:38:48.000 Right.
01:38:48.000 Like, no one cares.
01:38:49.000 It's just who are the fighters.
01:38:51.000 With the UFC, it's a very different animal.
01:38:53.000 So, if you get a call for the UFC, like, oh my God, we're in the big leagues.
01:38:57.000 Right.
01:38:57.000 And that's different.
01:38:58.000 100%.
01:38:59.000 Yeah.
01:38:59.000 They have all sorts of different promotions and different people you can fight for in boxing, but UFC is the pinnacle.
01:39:05.000 It's, yeah, if you get the call from the UFC, that's where you want to go.
01:39:08.000 So, there's a whole lot of differences to it.
01:39:11.000 I just think whatever it is that, yeah, the MMA guys are more willing to step in on the short notice and put their careers at risk and put their, you know, opportunities to continue fight streaks or whatever at a risk.
01:39:26.000 So, That's how I see it.
01:39:29.000 That's what I picked up from those two different things.
01:39:32.000 Yeah, it's definitely a different culture, right?
01:39:34.000 It's a culture of accepting those risks and also of probably people that are just, they're much more willing to take a chance, it seems.
01:39:44.000 Yeah, exactly.
01:39:45.000 That's why I think that's us a little bit more padded up, too.
01:39:48.000 It's a little bit more wild to be fighting the MMA anyway.
01:39:53.000 It's a little bit more wild for sure.
01:39:54.000 And that's a little bit more of a business, I would say, in my opinion.
01:40:01.000 The boxing is.
01:40:01.000 The boxing.
01:40:02.000 Yeah.
01:40:02.000 Which.
01:40:03.000 Well, you've got a lot of very smart people involved in boxing that are like managers and trainers that are like really working to build a guy and turn him into a prospect, turn him into a contender, and then turn him into a champion.
01:40:15.000 And the UFC, you only have the one organization doing that.
01:40:17.000 Exactly.
01:40:18.000 And they're managing all the weight classes and all the prospects, and they're picking and choosing certain weights.
01:40:24.000 Not only that, they schedule fights around cards, they don't schedule cards around fights.
01:40:32.000 Right?
01:40:33.000 So, like, say if Canelo Alvarez is fighting someone, it is whenever Canelo is ready to fight, that's when the card takes place.
01:40:39.000 Yeah.
01:40:40.000 Right?
01:40:40.000 So, Canelo Alvarez wants to fight September 12th.
01:40:42.000 Okay, great.
01:40:43.000 September 12th, let's put together a fight card around Canelo Alvarez.
01:40:46.000 Right.
01:40:47.000 With the UFC, it's like the UFC is coming to Salt Lake City October 3rd.
01:40:49.000 Who's there?
01:40:50.000 Right.
01:40:50.000 Who wants to fight?
01:40:51.000 Like, we're going to have a fight.
01:40:51.000 Right.
01:40:53.000 Who's going to be on the fight?
01:40:54.000 Who's going to be on the card?
01:40:55.000 And then you put the card together.
01:40:56.000 So, it's a different animal.
01:40:57.000 Yeah.
01:40:58.000 No, they're different, for sure.
01:41:00.000 I mean, I try to draw wisdom from all.
01:41:02.000 All aspects of everything.
01:41:04.000 So I'm constantly delving into all the different realms myself.
01:41:07.000 Do you read a lot?
01:41:10.000 Are you a guy who.
01:41:12.000 Do you like read anything on psychology or on warrior tactics?
01:41:17.000 You ever get into like Book of Five Rings or any of that shit?
01:41:20.000 I'm reading.
01:41:20.000 For sure.
01:41:21.000 It's called Hagakari right now.
01:41:23.000 And it's essentially.
01:41:26.000 It's a single individual, Yamamoto.
01:41:30.000 It's like Tunishi or something.
01:41:32.000 I forget his name exactly.
01:41:33.000 But.
01:41:35.000 He served for like the reigning leader at the time.
01:41:40.000 His leader passed away.
01:41:42.000 He wanted to commit seppuku because he was of that mentality, that warrior mentality, but his leader had commanded that no one was allowed to do that.
01:41:52.000 This and that, but he's taken a lot of storylines, inspirations from all these samurai because it's going into a time period where the samurai weren't a necessity anymore.
01:42:02.000 And so the ideology, the lifestyle, what it meant to.
01:42:06.000 To live that Bushido lifestyle had changed a little bit and their purpose was different.
01:42:12.000 And my boxing coach gave it to me actually when I was kind of in this limbo state of like, it's essentially saying, how should a warrior live outside of the fight?
01:42:21.000 You know, like, what does he need to be doing on a daily basis?
01:42:23.000 And, but then it's, it's, I like the real life, like, storyline because now you're getting a bunch of different perspectives from all these people that were samurai, all were warriors who lived that, who, you know, fought in battle.
01:42:37.000 And now you get to see like a lot of different things.
01:42:39.000 Like, someone says, you should do this, and someone says, no, don't do that.
01:42:42.000 And to me, I like that because I get to kind of, Delve through all the mindsets and then apply what works best to me, you know.
01:42:49.000 But I love reading all that stuff.
01:42:52.000 I've not been so good at staying off the phone, and you know, I watch a lot of YouTube, which is it's always fighting or some kind of gun channel or hiking or camping or hunting or spearfishing or something.
01:43:04.000 But yeah, I'm trying to get way better at that.
01:43:08.000 I'm trying to stay off the screens.
01:43:09.000 Like, I want to be more interactive with the world around me, learning things constantly.
01:43:14.000 And so, picking up a book and reading it is.
01:43:19.000 Along that set of goals that I have is continuously be doing that.
01:43:23.000 Yeah, I think there's benefits to a lot of stuff on YouTube.
01:43:26.000 I think YouTube is not social media, and I think I learn a lot on YouTube.
01:43:31.000 And I just get it's for me, I like to wind down on YouTube, just watch some ancient history thing or watch a professional pool match or something like that.
01:43:39.000 It's just a wind down time, but it doesn't feel like I'm wasting time.
01:43:43.000 Whereas if I'm looking at Instagram or Twitter or whatever, it feels like I'm doing something I shouldn't be doing.
01:43:50.000 That's not beneficial.
01:43:51.000 Oh, 100%.
01:43:52.000 That's.
01:43:53.000 To me, as I'm building up my platform and whatnot, I understand it as a business.
01:43:57.000 And so I understand there's some necessity for me to be into it, producing content, not necessarily taking in content.
01:44:04.000 But yeah, 100%.
01:44:06.000 It's something that has affected our culture in a large way.
01:44:11.000 It's all the, what's it called?
01:44:16.000 Like the short term media, you know, where you're clicking through it.
01:44:19.000 It's just killing our attention spans.
01:44:21.000 It's just like.
01:44:26.000 You know, your dopamine is firing at all times, going crazy.
01:44:29.000 It's just when you're at focus.
01:44:31.000 Yeah, you're getting this like.
01:44:34.000 That's where I love the YouTube, but I almost have to recognize that just because I'm watching a spearfishing video doesn't mean I'm getting in the water and going and spearfishing.
01:44:41.000 Because sometimes I feel like I get my fix a little bit by doing that, but then I have to remind myself it's like life is lived in your actions and in your experiences.
01:44:52.000 So sitting and watching the TV screen, somebody else experienced that.
01:44:56.000 You know, you get the inside scoop.
01:44:58.000 You get to kind of be there under the water, watch what's going on, but you're not actually living it.
01:45:02.000 So I like it.
01:45:04.000 I love to learn from that.
01:45:06.000 Social media, yeah, it sucks.
01:45:08.000 It's zapping everybody.
01:45:10.000 It's certainly not a part of the warrior lifestyle, as you were talking about.
01:45:14.000 I mean, because then you want to think about your meditative aspects of how often are you delving deep into your own brain and just figuring out things about yourself and asking those questions and pushing beyond.
01:45:14.000 Oh, for sure.
01:45:26.000 And when you've got a phone screen stealing all your attention, how are you ever doing that?
01:45:30.000 Right.
01:45:31.000 Yeah, absolutely.
01:45:32.000 You're not.
01:45:34.000 You're not, you know, if you're spending so much time doing that.
01:45:37.000 You're a spearfisher guy, huh?
01:45:39.000 You really like spearfishing?
01:45:40.000 I like to spearfish.
01:45:42.000 It's been some time since I've been back in the water.
01:45:44.000 I had a buddy that we used to go all the time, and then he moved up to Washington.
01:45:48.000 And I don't know.
01:45:50.000 Where were you guys spearfishing?
01:45:51.000 We go local.
01:45:52.000 Like, there's a Cronodalmar beach, and then there's a smaller kind of hidden beach that you walk down, and it's got plenty of structure and all sorts of fish out there.
01:46:02.000 Laguna's got the kelp forest, so.
01:46:05.000 I've just been going shore diving and going over there, grabbing lobster when it's lobster season, grabbing down to the honey holes and just grabbing them with our hands.
01:46:13.000 So it's all the shore stuff right now.
01:46:16.000 I haven't been off a boat.
01:46:18.000 It's for my friends that have been hunting, they say they love it because they say it's like hunting underwater.
01:46:24.000 Right.
01:46:24.000 It's not really like fishing.
01:46:26.000 You call it spearfish, but it feels like you're hunting.
01:46:29.000 It's, yeah, you're in the action, you know?
01:46:33.000 You get to pick and choose which fish you're going to take, which one to let go, and.
01:46:38.000 Yeah, you're also.
01:46:40.000 I like it because I like the primitive aspects.
01:46:42.000 Like, we talked about a little bit of bow hunting before.
01:46:46.000 I'm really enthralled with the bow hunting stuff over the rifle hunt because, dude, you can sit at like three, four.
01:46:50.000 Sometimes guys are shooting about like 500 yards with this big old rifle and you're just smacking something.
01:46:56.000 It's like that thing didn't even ever know you were there.
01:46:59.000 You know, you're just like propped up and there's a place for it, I suppose.
01:47:02.000 But having a bow and have to get up 30 ish yards, give or take, and having to make sure they're not catching your scent and having to perform the stock.
01:47:11.000 I like the primitive.
01:47:13.000 I like something that involves a skill set instead of just like a technological prowess.
01:47:19.000 No, I agree with you, obviously.
01:47:21.000 I'm a big bow hunter.
01:47:22.000 I don't think there's anything wrong with rifle hunting, and it's definitely the best way to acquire meat.
01:47:26.000 If you're just going on a meat hunt and you just want to get your meat for the next few months, a rifle is the way to go.
01:47:33.000 But if you want a real challenge, there's something that's way more special about a bow hunt.
01:47:40.000 It's more difficult, it requires more practice, it requires more of you.
01:47:44.000 Like, uh, I went out a pig hunt about a year or so ago with a friend of mine in California where we had had a successful elk hunt and then we went pig hunting.
01:47:54.000 I hadn't shot a rifle in two years, a year and a half, two years.
01:47:59.000 Not one shot with a rifle.
01:48:02.000 Aced this pig at like 90 yards like it was nothing.
01:48:05.000 Boom, dropped him in his tracks.
01:48:06.000 That was so easy.
01:48:08.000 All you have to do is get the crosshairs on him, don't flinch, squeeze the trigger slowly, make sure you're in a good position, and know how to shoot a rifle.
01:48:18.000 And once you know how to shoot a rifle, I mean, I'm not taking thousand yard shots, but you know how to shoot a rifle, it's pretty easy.
01:48:25.000 If I was bow hunting, I wouldn't even imagine if I hadn't shot a bow in a year and a half of even thinking about shooting something with a bow.
01:48:31.000 Right.
01:48:32.000 Not a chance in hell.
01:48:33.000 I wouldn't even think about it for like months.
01:48:35.000 I would say, I need to practice.
01:48:37.000 I need to hit targets all the time.
01:48:39.000 I need to make sure my shot is at.
01:48:40.000 I need to get my technique down.
01:48:42.000 I'd want to film myself, make sure I'm not doing anything stupid.
01:48:45.000 Like, let me look at my form.
01:48:47.000 Why is my elbow to the right?
01:48:48.000 It should be above.
01:48:50.000 I would.
01:48:51.000 I would never imagine.
01:48:52.000 Rifle's way easier, but the feeling of taking an animal down with a bow is a completely different feeling.
01:48:58.000 It's so much harder to do.
01:48:59.000 It's so much more exciting.
01:49:01.000 And if you fail, it doesn't, you know, many a hunt where seven days, nothing happens.
01:49:07.000 Okay, that's just part of the thing.
01:49:09.000 Right.
01:49:09.000 But at least, you know, we're out here getting after it and trying, and you succeed or you fail, but at least you're in nature and the experience of it is still really fun, even if you're totally unsuccessful.
01:49:23.000 Yeah, no, for sure.
01:49:24.000 I mean, that's why with the spearfishing stuff, like these free divers that can hold their breath up to four or five minutes, you know, and they're diving 40, 50, 60, 70 feet.
01:49:33.000 Some of these guys out there in the middle of the blue water and they're going down to shipwrecks or whatever structure is down there and they're shooting these big old fish.
01:49:41.000 It's like, yeah, there's like, there has to be a skill set to that.
01:49:45.000 It's something you had to work for to achieve, you know?
01:49:47.000 Oh, yeah.
01:49:47.000 It's something you had to build up to.
01:49:49.000 So, yeah, I love all that stuff.
01:49:51.000 I haven't been like bow hunting.
01:49:54.000 I haven't even been rifle hunting.
01:49:55.000 It's something that I really want to get into.
01:49:56.000 I like all that outdoor stuff.
01:49:59.000 We can help you.
01:50:00.000 We can help you get into that.
01:50:01.000 Yeah, definitely.
01:50:02.000 I'll connect you with some people.
01:50:03.000 I love all that.
01:50:04.000 You know, I like to have a backpack.
01:50:05.000 I just did Mount Whitney last year in August, and I just love being out there in nature.
01:50:12.000 So, you know, being able to engage in it that way, too, is like you said the excitement, the buildup, the work you have to put into it, the knowledge you have to acquire, the people you have to bump into.
01:50:24.000 The meals are a lot different, too.
01:50:25.000 When you eat a meal that you prepared yourself, that you went and hunted, it's just a completely different feeling.
01:50:31.000 And you're living in California now, and California has a giant pig population.
01:50:31.000 Oh, for sure.
01:50:36.000 There's a lot of pig hunting to be had in California pretty much all year round.
01:50:40.000 Yeah.
01:50:40.000 Yeah, because they're invasive species.
01:50:41.000 Like, that's one that I'll get in the helicopter with a rifle and just take those guys out because I know they're just destroying animal, like, you know, like habitat and eating all the food and destroying the geography of how diverse they are.
01:50:56.000 Millions of them here in Texas.
01:50:58.000 Yeah.
01:50:58.000 Literally millions.
01:50:59.000 And they breed like no other, too.
01:50:59.000 Yeah.
01:51:01.000 You know, they just multiply.
01:51:02.000 Three times a year, they have litter sometimes.
01:51:04.000 At least twice a year.
01:51:04.000 Wow.
01:51:06.000 I have some friends of mine and I, we have a hunting lease out here.
01:51:10.000 And as you're walking through the woods, you hear them.
01:51:15.000 They sound like demons.
01:51:19.000 You hear them fighting with each other in the bushes and shit.
01:51:21.000 You're like, what the fuck am I getting into?
01:51:24.000 They sound like monsters, man.
01:51:25.000 And they're everywhere.
01:51:28.000 Every one of these ranches out here is infested with pigs.
01:51:32.000 Yeah, they're just destroying each other.
01:51:33.000 They have to hunt them.
01:51:34.000 They bring in people to hunt them.
01:51:35.000 A friend of mine has a huge ranch out near Fort Worth.
01:51:40.000 And he brought in a bunch of Navy SEALs to.
01:51:43.000 Kill pigs and they set it up like an operation.
01:51:45.000 They literally decided to use it for training.
01:51:47.000 Yeah.
01:51:48.000 And so they, you know, and you can blow them up with like thermite.
01:51:52.000 You can do all kinds of, not thermite.
01:51:53.000 What's that shit that they use?
01:51:55.000 Tannerite.
01:51:55.000 Tannerite.
01:51:56.000 Thank you.
01:51:56.000 That's it.
01:51:57.000 Yeah.
01:51:57.000 I have seen that video.
01:51:58.000 Oh, it's crazy.
01:51:59.000 Fly into the air.
01:51:59.000 Oh, it is.
01:52:01.000 It's ridiculous.
01:52:02.000 But they could, you could basically do whatever you want to them because they're just encouraging people.
01:52:02.000 Yeah.
01:52:07.000 They're saying, listen, other than like declaring war on the pigs and bringing in the military and literally going through every state and trying to kill them.
01:52:16.000 Like, we've got an economic war where these pigs are destroying people's crops.
01:52:21.000 Right.
01:52:21.000 I mean, literally billions of dollars worth of damage every year they're doing to these farms.
01:52:26.000 Yeah.
01:52:27.000 And they just keep, there's more of them every year.
01:52:29.000 More of them every year.
01:52:30.000 They're not going to stop fucking.
01:52:31.000 They're just going to keep reproducing.
01:52:33.000 Yeah.
01:52:34.000 Just going to keep reproducing.
01:52:36.000 And it's, you know, really been a few hundred years since they've been introduced to this country.
01:52:41.000 And boy, they're in every state now.
01:52:43.000 Yeah.
01:52:44.000 I mean, and what are you going to do?
01:52:45.000 Just let them continue to roam?
01:52:47.000 Well, they're in every state.
01:52:48.000 Like New York State and places like that, they have wild pigs.
01:52:51.000 How many states have a wild pig population?
01:52:54.000 Let's put that into perplexity and see what they say.
01:52:57.000 Our AI sponsor.
01:52:59.000 I'm going to guess.
01:53:00.000 Let me say 30.
01:53:01.000 I say 30 states have a wild pig population.
01:53:05.000 That's my guess.
01:53:06.000 30 out of 50.
01:53:08.000 Am I close?
01:53:10.000 How many?
01:53:12.000 35.
01:53:14.000 Figure first to states with documented feral swine presence.
01:53:17.000 I like that term feral swine presence. Does not necessarily mean that every one of these states has a large self sustaining population.
01:53:25.000 35 states, population established numbers could be lower.
01:53:30.000 Some states only have occasional sightings, small localized groups.
01:53:34.000 Well, it really depends on where they have farms.
01:53:37.000 States with farms have the real problem.
01:53:40.000 In the Southwest, especially Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Florida, Georgia, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, and South Carolina.
01:53:47.000 Yeah.
01:53:48.000 Wild.
01:53:50.000 It's such a crazy animal, too, because they're, you know.
01:53:54.000 They're so smart.
01:53:55.000 They're so smart and they're very durable.
01:53:59.000 Right.
01:53:59.000 Yeah, and some of them get gigantic, like a thousand pounds, right?
01:54:02.000 I mean, you've seen them.
01:54:03.000 Not really.
01:54:04.000 See, I used to think that too.
01:54:06.000 Those are not really the wild pigs.
01:54:07.000 What those are is domestic pigs that got loose.
01:54:11.000 And you know, the thing about domestic pigs, when they get loose, they kind of become wild.
01:54:15.000 Their nose lengthens, their fur gets like thicker and bushier, and their talons or their tusks actually grow, which is nuts.
01:54:26.000 They actually metamorphosize.
01:54:28.000 Well, that's what a feral pig is, right?
01:54:31.000 It was a domesticated animal that became wild.
01:54:33.000 The opposite.
01:54:34.000 It was a wild animal that they took and domesticated, but then when you let them loose in the wild, then they become wild again.
01:54:40.000 Oh, okay.
01:54:40.000 That's what's weird.
01:54:41.000 It's like they originally were wild animals.
01:54:44.000 It's such a crazy transformation.
01:54:46.000 Yeah.
01:54:46.000 All covered in hair and big tusks and stuff.
01:54:48.000 And then, like the pigs you see in the farm, like.
01:54:52.000 Yeah.
01:54:52.000 Same animal.
01:54:53.000 What's nuts is it happens quick.
01:54:55.000 Apparently, the metamorphosis starts to take place.
01:54:58.000 Look this up.
01:54:59.000 See how long it takes before pigs start transforming.
01:55:01.000 I think it's like six weeks or something crazy.
01:55:04.000 Like it starts to begin.
01:55:05.000 Yeah.
01:55:06.000 Or six weeks where they have to feed.
01:55:07.000 themselves to forage for themselves.
01:55:09.000 They're like, all right, I guess I'm wild.
01:55:11.000 Yeah.
01:55:11.000 And then they start the transformation.
01:55:14.000 Yeah.
01:55:15.000 It's a very weird animal.
01:55:16.000 I don't know of any other animal that does that.
01:55:19.000 We'll ask perplexity that.
01:55:21.000 I don't know if there's any other animal that does that.
01:55:23.000 Domestic kid becomes feral in behavior within weeks to months of escaping, becoming wary of people, nocturnal, mobile, and able to forage and survive without care.
01:55:32.000 But it does not literally turn into a wild boar in one lifetime.
01:55:35.000 But it does have physical changes.
01:55:40.000 What is the physical change?
01:55:46.000 Radically different skull is overstated.
01:55:49.000 Adult pigs can become tougher, leaner, hairier, and more elusive as conditions change, but major inherited traits become more common when the animals survive and breed, pass on advantageous variants over successive litters.
01:56:02.000 Evidence on fertilization emphasizes that these changes are shaped by both environments and multi generational selection.
01:56:11.000 Not an instant biological reversal.
01:56:13.000 Not instant, but they do physically change.
01:56:17.000 I don't think this is totally accurate.
01:56:19.000 But if you see the biggest pig that they ever shot that was a wild pig, I think it's called Hogzilla.
01:56:23.000 Have you ever seen that picture?
01:56:24.000 I think so, yeah.
01:56:25.000 It looks like a domestic pig.
01:56:27.000 It looks like someone was feeding that thing a lot and then it got out and became a wild pig.
01:56:33.000 Right.
01:56:33.000 I don't know how big that was.
01:56:35.000 This is a photo of it, but it's one of those perspective shots where the guy's like behind it.
01:56:39.000 You stand all far behind it.
01:56:40.000 Yeah.
01:56:41.000 Yeah.
01:56:41.000 Make it look 10 times larger.
01:56:42.000 Yeah.
01:56:44.000 But it looks crazy.
01:56:45.000 See, there's one of them where one of them is hanging from a tractor.
01:56:49.000 And I don't give a fuck how close you are to that thing.
01:56:52.000 That thing's giant.
01:56:53.000 Yeah.
01:56:54.000 Like, how big is Hogzilla?
01:56:56.000 That's like some of the gators or the crocodiles, I mean, that they're finding in like Africa and stuff.
01:57:02.000 The pictures sit next to those things and they're like 20 plus feet long, you know, like ridiculous.
01:57:02.000 Yeah.
01:57:07.000 Yeah, crocodiles get big.
01:57:09.000 I think the biggest ones they've gotten are like close to 20.
01:57:12.000 See, that's the one thing about spearfishing you know the sharks are there.
01:57:17.000 Do you ever see them?
01:57:18.000 I have not seen.
01:57:19.000 I've seen leopard sharks, but that's nothing crazy.
01:57:23.000 You never saw a great white?
01:57:24.000 I've never seen a great white.
01:57:25.000 If you do, would that be the last time you go spearfishing?
01:57:29.000 I want to say no, but I don't know.
01:57:30.000 I'll have to get there first.
01:57:31.000 I'll have to hit one on the nose.
01:57:32.000 Yeah.
01:57:33.000 If it's getting crazy, it's probably like, all right, I'm cool on that.
01:57:37.000 But they have all sorts of different things.
01:57:40.000 Like Ocean Guardian.
01:57:42.000 Okay, that guy's definitely behind that thing.
01:57:45.000 But that fucker looks like he's got tusks.
01:57:47.000 Look at that one to the left.
01:57:48.000 The giant 36 stone.
01:57:49.000 Yeah.
01:57:50.000 Oh, you want that one too?
01:57:51.000 They said this one was maybe 1,200 pounds.
01:57:54.000 It was originally thought of to be a hoax.
01:57:56.000 There's a documentary about it.
01:57:58.000 This is back in 2004 and 2005, though.
01:58:00.000 Hmm.
01:58:01.000 What's that one on the upper left?
01:58:04.000 That dude's resting his arm.
01:58:06.000 Is that a real picture?
01:58:07.000 That's like a little kid, though.
01:58:08.000 But the upper left, the kid.
01:58:10.000 It's way too close for that guy.
01:58:12.000 Yeah, that one's closer than the guy.
01:58:13.000 The guy's behind it.
01:58:14.000 But that kid.
01:58:15.000 Well, that looks like a.
01:58:16.000 Oh, he's not resting his arms on it.
01:58:18.000 He's resting his arms.
01:58:19.000 Yeah, it is the same.
01:58:20.000 That's a fat fucker, though.
01:58:21.000 Look at the size of that thing.
01:58:23.000 That looks more like a domestic pig, though.
01:58:26.000 Like that one right there.
01:58:27.000 That's a good example.
01:58:29.000 Go back up a little so I can make it smaller.
01:58:31.000 Yeah, look at his snout.
01:58:32.000 It's actually kind of long.
01:58:34.000 They're also still behind it, too.
01:58:36.000 Yeah.
01:58:37.000 Hard to tell how far, but.
01:58:39.000 Why do people do that?
01:58:40.000 It's big.
01:58:40.000 I like it to look cool, man.
01:58:42.000 I know, but it's big.
01:58:44.000 I like how that one says 36 stone.
01:58:48.000 That must be an English.
01:58:50.000 Yeah, it's the mirror.
01:58:52.000 That's crazy.
01:58:53.000 That's a big pig, but it's not.
01:58:55.000 Like, what is the biggest reported wild pig that was shot in Texas?
01:59:00.000 Let's ask that.
01:59:01.000 I think that's a porno.
01:59:02.000 Turn that off.
01:59:03.000 It's on IMDb.
01:59:06.000 The other white meat bite system.
01:59:07.000 Is that the biggest animal shot in Texas?
01:59:08.000 What is the biggest wild hog that was shot in Texas?
01:59:08.000 Yes.
01:59:12.000 Let's guess.
01:59:13.000 I'm going to guess like 500 pounds.
01:59:21.000 That's my guess.
01:59:26.000 That's just a guess, though.
01:59:29.000 No official.
01:59:30.000 Largest ever shot.
01:59:31.000 Most credible.
01:59:32.000 790 pound boar.
01:59:34.000 Holy shit.
01:59:36.000 Captured, not shot.
01:59:38.000 Near DeLeon in Comanche County, January 2015, weighed on certified mill skills.
01:59:44.000 That's fucking crazy big.
01:59:47.000 790 is nuts.
01:59:49.000 That's so big.
01:59:53.000 You imagine millions of 790 pound wild pigs running through this country?
01:59:58.000 Yeah.
01:59:59.000 That would not be very good.
02:00:01.000 Not ideal.
02:00:02.000 Yeah.
02:00:03.000 So, never been hunting.
02:00:06.000 I've shot some birds with a pellet gun or something.
02:00:09.000 That's about it.
02:00:10.000 But you want to.
02:00:11.000 I would love to, yeah.
02:00:12.000 What would you want to go hunting for?
02:00:14.000 Do you have a thing in your mind that you think would be.
02:00:16.000 I think something like a deer is probably a good starting point.
02:00:20.000 Do you know how to shoot a bow?
02:00:22.000 Or would you want to use a rifle?
02:00:23.000 I haven't shot compound too often.
02:00:25.000 I shoot recurve.
02:00:27.000 It's definitely not something I'm super practiced with, but I'm pretty good with it.
02:00:31.000 I went to an archery competition pretty recently and did pretty good with it.
02:00:34.000 Did you really?
02:00:35.000 With a compound bow?
02:00:36.000 With a recurve bow.
02:00:37.000 A recurve bow.
02:00:38.000 Don't hunt with that.
02:00:39.000 Yeah.
02:00:40.000 It's too risky.
02:00:41.000 You're not going to.
02:00:42.000 That would be.
02:00:42.000 You've got to get real good.
02:00:44.000 Yeah.
02:00:44.000 You'd have to.
02:00:45.000 A lot of practice, a lot of hunts, and a lot of experience.
02:00:48.000 How far are you from San Diego?
02:00:51.000 Hour, two hours if there's traffic.
02:00:53.000 There's a really good archery shop in San Diego.
02:00:56.000 I think it's Performance Archery.
02:00:58.000 Is that the name of the place?
02:01:00.000 But it's one of the best shops in the country.
02:01:02.000 If you want to get a compound bow and want to get someone to really make sure that it's sized correctly, that the draw length is correct, and everything like that.
02:01:02.000 Yeah.
02:01:02.000 Okay.
02:01:12.000 Yeah.
02:01:12.000 Performance Archery.
02:01:17.000 Why are you showing me a map?
02:01:20.000 Yeah, just go back to the.
02:01:21.000 Does it show you anything there?
02:01:23.000 Yeah, I've been there before with John Dudley.
02:01:26.000 It's a great place, like, really elite.
02:01:29.000 4.6 stars on Google.
02:01:32.000 You want to go to a really good place.
02:01:33.000 So they make sure they set you up correct.
02:01:35.000 Like, that's a big thing with bows.
02:01:37.000 It's like, you know, I couldn't shoot John Jones' bow.
02:01:41.000 You know, he's really tall.
02:01:42.000 I'm short.
02:01:43.000 The length would be different.
02:01:45.000 Where my peep site would be different.
02:01:47.000 It has to all be measured out.
02:01:49.000 To your size, and everyone's different, so it's yeah, you'd have to really make sure that your bow is set up for you correctly.
02:01:56.000 And it's just like martial arts in that you want to learn correctly first, you don't want to unlearn it and try to learn something the right way because you're always going to fall back on the way you got comfortable with doing it the first time, right?
02:02:08.000 So, that's a good thing to do.
02:02:10.000 Nice, yeah, set you up.
02:02:11.000 I've uh, I mean, I shot a compound bow here or there, but I like all that stuff.
02:02:16.000 I'm really, like I said, I'm big into continuing to learn.
02:02:21.000 Lots of different skills, especially in that realm.
02:02:23.000 And yeah, I'm all about it.
02:02:28.000 Do you think of that as a way to just advance your mental function in all of life that will help your fighting?
02:02:37.000 The more different things you learn, the more different things you do, that you can take things from that and apply it to fighting?
02:02:45.000 Or do you just do it because you enjoy it?
02:02:48.000 I have to say, I do it because I enjoy it.
02:02:52.000 It's probably not.
02:02:53.000 Directly related to fighting, but more of the self reliance and the self perseverance.
02:02:59.000 Like, to me, like, I'm at home making my own, like, kydex holsters and my leather holsters and doing all that kind of stuff is a good start.
02:03:08.000 I have this old truck that I want to tear apart and learn how to work on it from the ground up.
02:03:13.000 Being able to hunt and provide, like, just, I'm always thinking, like, when shit hits the fan, I better be ready for it, you know?
02:03:20.000 And so, being a martial artist, being a warrior encompasses a lot of aspects, you know?
02:03:25.000 Hand to hand combat is only one of those things.
02:03:27.000 There's a lot of different aspects to self perseverance.
02:03:30.000 So I think about it a little bit that way.
02:03:34.000 I do it because it's fun and it's just exciting to learn a new skill and then have an end product, something that you've made yourself.
02:03:43.000 Yeah, for sure.
02:03:44.000 I mean, it's always a good idea to be self reliant.
02:03:47.000 And also, like, if you have a garden, that's another great thing.
02:03:50.000 Like, you have a place where you can grow your own food.
02:03:52.000 Yeah.
02:03:52.000 So you're not getting any pesticides or herbicides or bullshit on your food.
02:03:56.000 100%.
02:03:57.000 I mean, the.
02:03:58.000 The end goal for me is to have probably would not be the only property because my wife just loves Southern California so much.
02:04:05.000 But Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, go get a couple acres up there, move the family, maybe some close friends, and just have our own little self reliant thing up there with some crop, some wildlife, the ability to hunt up there on our land.
02:04:21.000 A lot of the stuff I'm seeing up there, they have stocked lakes and the rivers have fish as well.
02:04:26.000 So something like that is.
02:04:28.000 You're really thinking about.
02:04:30.000 Possible catastrophe.
02:04:32.000 It's always on my mind.
02:04:34.000 No, I just want to get away from the hustle and bustle of everything.
02:04:37.000 Just be out there in nature is really kind of the hopes for that.
02:04:41.000 Are you stuck in California because of your wife and what you do outside of MMA?
02:04:46.000 Or have you ever thought about moving to a different place to train?
02:04:51.000 Well, training is kind of the main thing that keeps me there, honestly.
02:04:55.000 My team is there, all my coaches are there.
02:04:57.000 Of course, I can bounce around.
02:04:59.000 What gym are you out of?
02:05:01.000 I'm all over the place.
02:05:01.000 No?
02:05:02.000 I trained at the Dent Training Center in Yorbelinda.
02:05:04.000 I trained at CSW.
02:05:06.000 Fullerton with Eric Paulson.
02:05:07.000 I love Eric.
02:05:09.000 Didn't your dad train with Eric?
02:05:09.000 Yeah, he's.
02:05:12.000 He did.
02:05:12.000 That's how I got over there in the first place because Ben was running the fight practice at CSW then.
02:05:18.000 Bro, Eric's an OG.
02:05:20.000 He's an OG, dude.
02:05:23.000 He's such a cool guy.
02:05:24.000 Eric Paulson was.
02:05:25.000 I remember back in the day when he had like a crazy ponytail in the days where he could grab hair.
02:05:31.000 Yeah, well, that's why I cut it off.
02:05:33.000 Yeah.
02:05:33.000 His name was Sean Shirky, right?
02:05:34.000 He's.
02:05:35.000 He was fighting him bare knuckle, and homie kept grabbing his ponytail and holding him there, and that's the only reason why.
02:05:42.000 And I think right after that fight, he went and chopped it off and had short hair from that point.
02:05:46.000 I know it's nice to be good looking with long, flowy locks, but that shit is, especially back in those days when you could grab hair.
02:05:53.000 You remember Hoist Gracie versus Kemo?
02:05:56.000 Well, Hoist had a fucking handful of hair when he was on top and just blasted him.
02:06:02.000 That's, I mean, to me, cut the hair, man.
02:06:04.000 Cut it or braid it.
02:06:05.000 Especially if it's the old UFC days where you could actually grab hair.
02:06:09.000 If you could grab it, yeah.
02:06:11.000 Yeah.
02:06:11.000 You know, people complain all the time about guys grabbing their shorts, and it does happen all the time.
02:06:16.000 Guys grab shorts.
02:06:18.000 I'm always like, why are you wearing shorts?
02:06:20.000 I don't know if you wear shorts.
02:06:20.000 Right.
02:06:21.000 Do you wear spandex?
02:06:22.000 You wear shorts.
02:06:23.000 Spandex, yeah.
02:06:23.000 Yeah.
02:06:24.000 Why are you wearing shorts?
02:06:25.000 Why are you wearing anything someone can grab?
02:06:27.000 And especially, like, everybody likes the loose, like, the high slit cut shorts nowadays.
02:06:32.000 So, I mean, more to grab onto, yeah.
02:06:34.000 Yeah, I just don't understand it.
02:06:35.000 Here it is.
02:06:36.000 It's crazy.
02:06:36.000 It's crazy.
02:06:37.000 Headbutts and shit.
02:06:37.000 Yeah.
02:06:38.000 Oh, yeah, man.
02:06:39.000 This is bare knuckle, headbutts.
02:06:41.000 Yeah, you think you could kick him on the nuts and all that stuff back then?
02:06:43.000 Bro, wrestlers were a fucking nightmare when you could headbutt.
02:06:49.000 If you go back and remember the Mark Coleman days, he would get in your guard and headbutt the shit out of you.
02:06:56.000 Yeah, and how are you getting off your back against a high level wrestler like that?
02:06:56.000 Right.
02:07:01.000 He's wearing his hair like it's a wrist lock.
02:07:01.000 I know, it's crazy.
02:07:03.000 I know, it's crazy.
02:07:05.000 He had his hair, and then I don't know if Eric escapes or if the time goes out, but Eric ends up finishing him at the end of it.
02:07:12.000 What is this?
02:07:13.000 A floor time count you had to get up if you're on the ground for too long?
02:07:16.000 Is that what it is?
02:07:17.000 That's WCC.
02:07:19.000 That's crazy.
02:07:21.000 I wonder how much time.
02:07:23.000 Oh, it's counting down.
02:07:24.000 Yeah, I want to see what happens if it gets up here.
02:07:26.000 Right.
02:07:26.000 Do they stand them up?
02:07:29.000 Wow.
02:07:29.000 Yeah.
02:07:31.000 You got a minute on the ground.
02:07:31.000 Wow.
02:07:32.000 Crazy.
02:07:34.000 Yeah, but Eric Paulson is such a legend of the game.
02:07:34.000 Wow.
02:07:36.000 Oh, yeah, he is.
02:07:38.000 There's not a day that I go in there and learn submission flows from him that I'm not just blown away.
02:07:43.000 That's crazy.
02:07:45.000 I forgot they did that.
02:07:47.000 Well, I think back then in the early days of fighting, there was a lot of promoters that were trying a bunch of different tactics to try to make the fights more interesting.
02:07:47.000 Interesting.
02:07:55.000 That would be the only reason.
02:07:55.000 Right.
02:07:57.000 They don't want you to sit and lay there anymore and get up and start throwing fists again.
02:08:00.000 I hate stand ups.
02:08:01.000 I hate them.
02:08:02.000 I hate them with all my heart.
02:08:04.000 I don't think in a five minute round, you should ever be stood up.
02:08:10.000 There's a lot that could go on there.
02:08:11.000 I mean, especially if you're holding position, you're regaining your breath a little bit, you're setting up a pass or something.
02:08:18.000 It doesn't always look apparent to the crowd or to the refs.
02:08:19.000 Even if you could hold them down, who cares?
02:08:23.000 You could hold a guy up against a cage, right?
02:08:25.000 Okay.
02:08:26.000 And all you have to do is like land a few knees and a few punches occasionally, and they'll let you stay in that position.
02:08:30.000 I feel like they're breaking that up even more and more.
02:08:32.000 I don't think you should break up anything.
02:08:34.000 I think it should be reserved for fouls.
02:08:37.000 I think if someone commits a foul, then you stand them up and then you assess whether or not someone gets a point taken away or whether or not that person needs time.
02:08:43.000 But if it's a place where you don't want to be and the guy's putting you in a place where you don't want to be, he's winning that exchange.
02:08:51.000 If a guy can hold you down and you can't get up, if you don't like it and you can't get up, then he's winning.
02:08:51.000 Right.
02:08:56.000 Yeah.
02:08:56.000 Right.
02:08:57.000 We lose as an audience.
02:08:58.000 The audience loses.
02:08:59.000 There's a 10 minute limit for ground time.
02:09:02.000 What fight was this?
02:09:03.000 This is WCC.
02:09:04.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:09:04.000 What was it called?
02:09:05.000 The World Combat Championships.
02:09:08.000 Is that the one where Henso.
02:09:10.000 Yes.
02:09:11.000 Henso Gracie fought Ben Spikers.
02:09:14.000 Do you remember that one?
02:09:15.000 Oh, dude.
02:09:16.000 This is one of the reasons why elbows to the back of the head are illegal.
02:09:19.000 I know he's still on his head.
02:09:20.000 He had to play defense.
02:09:21.000 Because Henso, this guy, was calling Henso.
02:09:25.000 There's you, dog.
02:09:26.000 Look at that.
02:09:27.000 Look at that guy.
02:09:27.000 Um,.
02:09:28.000 Henzo was in his hotel room, and this guy was calling him every fucking 10 minutes, like to try to wake him up.
02:09:37.000 And Henzo had to take the phone and shove it in a drawer.
02:09:40.000 Like, he was fucking with him constantly.
02:09:42.000 And Henso got his back and elbowed the fucking shit out of him from rear mount.
02:09:52.000 So, this isn't the same fight.
02:09:53.000 I think it is.
02:09:55.000 Oh, here it is.
02:09:55.000 Yeah, right here.
02:09:56.000 That's it.
02:09:57.000 So, Henso gets his back, and here it is.
02:09:59.000 Look at these elbows, dude.
02:10:02.000 Just ferocious elbows.
02:10:07.000 So, this dude was a judo champion.
02:10:10.000 I was going to say, why would you wear a gi against a guy like Henso?
02:10:13.000 And Henso doesn't have a gi on.
02:10:14.000 And then Henso gets.
02:10:15.000 Steps off and then gets on his neck.
02:10:17.000 Oh, shit.
02:10:18.000 Yeah.
02:10:19.000 Ow, that was crossing the line.
02:10:21.000 After he just elbowed the shit out of him.
02:10:23.000 See, you know what's funny is like the 12 to 6 rule, everybody fantasizes about like how much better that is.
02:10:31.000 And sure, you got some cutting, but your force that you can deliver, in my perspective, straight down with an elbow like that is so much more tremendous than you doing this.
02:10:40.000 Yes.
02:10:41.000 This was only, you know why it was outlawed, right?
02:10:44.000 Why?
02:10:45.000 Big John McCarthy has got a great story about this.
02:10:48.000 When the ESPN people, or the Athletic Commission people, rather, were first deciding whether or not they were going to sanction MMA, they had seen these ESPN karate breaking demonstrations at like 2 in the morning.
02:11:01.000 These fucking guys, yeah!
02:11:03.000 And they break a bunch of bricks, and they're like, you have to outlaw that.
02:11:07.000 That should be illegal.
02:11:07.000 People could die.
02:11:09.000 That's literally what they thought was the most powerful strike, the 12 to 6 elbow.
02:11:14.000 So you couldn't even do a 12 to 6 elbow standing.
02:11:17.000 Which is crazy.
02:11:18.000 You couldn't tomahawk.
02:11:20.000 So you couldn't come down with a tomahawk 12 6.
02:11:22.000 It had to be at a slight angle.
02:11:25.000 It had to be some kind of angle, which is the fucking dumbest thing ever.
02:11:28.000 I'm going to chop them in half.
02:11:29.000 This by far across.
02:11:31.000 It's rotating your shoulders to do it like a punch.
02:11:33.000 It's the most power.
02:11:34.000 Yeah, for sure.
02:11:35.000 Yeah, you might get more cutting.
02:11:38.000 It's available if a guy's doing this.
02:11:39.000 If a guy's covering up like that and he can go straight down.
02:11:42.000 For sure.
02:11:43.000 But to eliminate it as an option, the only reason why.
02:11:45.000 I would miss this.
02:11:46.000 So the WCC had two different brackets grappler's bracket, striker's bracket.
02:11:51.000 Grapplers could be on the ground for up to 10 minutes.
02:11:53.000 Strikers only had two minutes.
02:11:56.000 And submissions were illegal.
02:11:58.000 What?
02:11:59.000 In a strikers fight?
02:12:00.000 Yeah.
02:12:01.000 So it said, and then the idea was the winner of both brackets would fight at the end.
02:12:06.000 Yeah, it only made it that one tournament.
02:12:06.000 Oh, that's so crazy.
02:12:08.000 That's so crazy.
02:12:10.000 What year was that?
02:12:11.000 94, 95, maybe.
02:12:14.000 Okay, so this is right after the UFC burst onto the scene.
02:12:18.000 UFC was 93.
02:12:20.000 It just says they were trying to be different than the UFC with different rules.
02:12:22.000 Yeah.
02:12:23.000 They're doing something like that again where it's like, Striking only MMA, where I don't know if you go back to the ground, they stand you back up or something.
02:12:30.000 Where's this?
02:12:31.000 I don't know.
02:12:31.000 I saw it on Instagram.
02:12:33.000 I mean, what is 1FC?
02:12:34.000 He's doing it the right way where they just have striking fights.
02:12:37.000 They have MMA fights and striking fights.
02:12:39.000 Dude, I've been trying to talk Dana into doing that for years, you know, because I know they got into Zufa boxing, which is great.
02:12:46.000 You know, I'm like, why not?
02:12:48.000 Like, when people boo when things go to the ground, how about have striking fights?
02:12:52.000 But in his mind, kickboxing in America has a stink on it.
02:12:57.000 From the PKA karate days, you know, which just wasn't that good.
02:13:02.000 They weren't allowed to leg kick, it was all above the waist.
02:13:05.000 Right.
02:13:06.000 And, you know, there were great fighters back then, like Rick Rufus and a few guys that were like really elite.
02:13:10.000 But for the most part, the skill level wasn't that high, and people never really got into PKA karate.
02:13:16.000 They never really got into kick.
02:13:17.000 It never really became the kind of success that boxing was.
02:13:20.000 And so I think in his mind, that's how people look at kickboxing.
02:13:23.000 Right.
02:13:24.000 I think it's the most, it has the most, In terms of like a sport that is not being taken advantage of, like that, it has the most potential by far.
02:13:35.000 I mean, like you said, you look at the one championship guys that are over there kickboxing Muay Thai, and they're even doing hybrid fights for that DJ versus Raw Tang one.
02:13:43.000 Yeah.
02:13:44.000 They're switching it up all crazy.
02:13:46.000 I don't know.
02:13:46.000 Yeah.
02:13:47.000 I mean, that's getting pretty good traction over there.
02:13:50.000 It is.
02:13:50.000 I heard they have some difficulties, and I hope they do really well.
02:13:57.000 The world needs more organizations, the MMA world needs a bunch of options.
02:14:01.000 Right.
02:14:02.000 And you know, this PFL merger where PFL has merged with MVP.
02:14:08.000 Yeah, Jake Paul's production company, MVP.
02:14:10.000 Yeah.
02:14:11.000 That's great.
02:14:12.000 We need more of that.
02:14:13.000 Netflix is involved.
02:14:14.000 Fantastic.
02:14:15.000 You need more.
02:14:16.000 You need more options, more fights, and it's just going to make more MMA fans.
02:14:22.000 Right.
02:14:23.000 Just for me, when you see a guy like that cat that I was telling you about, Mega Medoff, who fought for PFL, more people need to know about these guys.
02:14:31.000 There's so many guys out there that are fucking killers, man.
02:14:35.000 No, the town pole is so deep.
02:14:37.000 Outside of the UFC, it's extremely deep.
02:14:39.000 You got people coming out of Russia, these Brazilians.
02:14:42.000 Like, People all over the world that nobody's ever heard of just because they haven't been on that big stage quite yet.
02:14:48.000 So, exactly.
02:14:51.000 I think it would be really cool that we did like champion versus champion kind of fights.
02:14:55.000 It's never going to happen.
02:14:56.000 Yeah.
02:14:57.000 The UFC would never do that.
02:14:58.000 What if their guys win?
02:14:59.000 Fuck you.
02:15:02.000 The benefit of it for the UFC is like it's so outweighed by the negatives.
02:15:07.000 Right.
02:15:07.000 Especially since they're number one.
02:15:09.000 Yeah.
02:15:09.000 And they're not number one like a little bit, you know?
02:15:12.000 Right.
02:15:12.000 Like for the casual.
02:15:13.000 MMA is UFC.
02:15:15.000 You know, it's like Q tips.
02:15:17.000 It's not a cotton swab.
02:15:18.000 It's a fucking Q tip.
02:15:19.000 Yeah, from a business perspective, I understand it.
02:15:21.000 I think as a fighter, it would be cool to challenge yourself once you get to that pinnacle.
02:15:26.000 If you have title defenses and you're kind of taking everybody out, it's like, hey, I really want to be the best in the world.
02:15:31.000 Let me fight all the top guys in the world.
02:15:34.000 So it may never happen, but it's a good ideology.
02:15:37.000 The only way it could happen if something like MVP got to a level of prominence in the public eye.
02:15:45.000 Where they developed a roster of champions that was equal to the UFC.
02:15:50.000 Then it would make sense.
02:15:50.000 Then no one's losing.
02:15:51.000 Yeah.
02:15:52.000 Yeah, because then it brings in all the crowds from everywhere.
02:15:54.000 Everybody gets.
02:15:55.000 And then you do a co promotion for like a gigantic super fight, like, you know, the UFC's version of Floyd Mayweather versus Manny Pacquiao.
02:16:03.000 Right.
02:16:03.000 You know, you have something where these guys are so huge.
02:16:07.000 It's just like, let's make this happen.
02:16:09.000 Everyone's going to get rich.
02:16:10.000 Let's go.
02:16:11.000 Yeah.
02:16:11.000 No, for sure.
02:16:12.000 Yeah.
02:16:12.000 It has to be something of that caliber.
02:16:13.000 Like, it has to be a Conor McGregor level champion where that.
02:16:19.000 You know, people are coming from all over anywhere to sign on to buy the fight at home or to show up in person.
02:16:25.000 And I think you'd have to have two guys of that level to bring some of that traction to it.
02:16:30.000 Do you think Connor fights again?
02:16:34.000 I don't know.
02:16:35.000 It sounds like he's going to.
02:16:37.000 I think he does.
02:16:38.000 I think he does.
02:16:39.000 The one more, and then he's done with it.
02:16:41.000 Yeah.
02:16:41.000 I hope, you know.
02:16:42.000 It's just that's what, like, you say, guys stay in it too long.
02:16:45.000 It's like, and some of these guys, that's all they know.
02:16:48.000 It's the only thing they've ever.
02:16:50.000 Found success in or found the ability to put food on the table or provide for their families.
02:16:55.000 And so, like, what else do they know?
02:16:57.000 They gave everything to fighting.
02:16:58.000 Well, with Connor, it's not that.
02:17:00.000 He's, yeah.
02:17:00.000 But that's not Connor.
02:17:02.000 He went from such a high place to like doing what he's doing now in the fighting world.
02:17:06.000 It's just like, why even step in and do that anymore?
02:17:09.000 I think it's just because he still can for a little bit more time.
02:17:14.000 I mean, he's 37, 38 now.
02:17:17.000 Realistically, he's got two years left, maybe.
02:17:21.000 You know, if everything, if you really take care of yourself and we both know, yeah, parted a little bit.
02:17:26.000 I don't think it's going to get back to that level of training and like mindset to it, though.
02:17:31.000 You know, it's very difficult to know because he was capable of doing it at one point in his life.
02:17:36.000 And it doesn't mean that he can never do that again just because he's rich.
02:17:40.000 And I think you could underestimate a man's character and say that he can't ever reach those heights again.
02:17:47.000 A guy like Connor's a special guy.
02:17:50.000 It takes a special type of person to put on a performance like he did against Eddie Alvarez.
02:17:55.000 Like that was, he was in the fucking Matrix, man.
02:17:58.000 To be there live when he was doing that, I was like, good Lord.
02:18:02.000 That was special.
02:18:03.000 Yeah, he's pulling it.
02:18:05.000 Eddie's like skinning his nose, blah, blah, and coming back with it.
02:18:07.000 He was countering instantaneous with perfect precision.
02:18:10.000 Yeah.
02:18:10.000 He was on fire.
02:18:12.000 If he can reach that height, as long as his body holds up, but here's the problem both of his ACLs have been torn, both of his meniscus have been blown out.
02:18:22.000 You know, now with this, the crazy one, with that crazy jumping roundhouse kick, like, who knows, man?
02:18:28.000 Who knows what he could still do?
02:18:28.000 Right.
02:18:29.000 There's, I will never say never.
02:18:31.000 It's not that he couldn't do it.
02:18:32.000 Right.
02:18:33.000 It's just that, will he do it?
02:18:34.000 Will he put that time and effort to recollect and to be.
02:18:39.000 Of that Zen, of that Bushido, like he used to be.
02:18:41.000 Because, like, the way he used to talk and be philosophical and stoic about training, the way he explained it and delved into it, that's what drew people to Connor before anything.
02:18:50.000 The way he talked about the warrior lifestyle and he didn't care about anything else and he lost his mind to it, those are the things that intrigued the people, this real, true warrior persona.
02:19:01.000 And that was the biggest question with this last one.
02:19:06.000 Everybody's like, oh, do you think Connor's going to do it?
02:19:07.000 Do you think Connor?
02:19:08.000 And it was the same answer Do I think he can do it?
02:19:11.000 For sure.
02:19:12.000 But the problem with that is Connor's so good at talking that he can convince you that he's doing anything, you know?
02:19:20.000 So I'm like, I'm not there in his camp.
02:19:22.000 I'm not seeing what he's doing behind the scenes.
02:19:25.000 I really can't make that guess, honestly.
02:19:28.000 And much like you, I want to believe.
02:19:28.000 Yeah.
02:19:31.000 You know, you hear him talk, you're like, I want to believe.
02:19:33.000 I want to see him pull it off.
02:19:34.000 Of course.
02:19:35.000 Yeah.
02:19:35.000 We all did.
02:19:36.000 You know, it's a, he was a very important part of fighting.
02:19:39.000 He was a really special person that came along and brought, A lot of attention to the sport that would not have been the same without him.
02:19:50.000 That whole era of time from 10 years ago or whatever it was, when he really burst more than that, but I think he won his.
02:19:57.000 What year would he win his first title?
02:19:59.000 When was it against Jose Aldo?
02:20:00.000 What year was that?
02:20:05.000 It was at the end of 2015.
02:20:07.000 It was December 2015.
02:20:08.000 Yeah, so 11 years ago, really, when he became Connor.
02:20:12.000 You know, that one punch knockout of Jose Aldo is really when he became that guy.
02:20:17.000 I mean, he was huge before that, but that was the one.
02:20:21.000 And then, of course, the Eddie Alvarez fight was another one.
02:20:23.000 I mean, it's 10 years, man.
02:20:26.000 That's a long time.
02:20:27.000 Right.
02:20:28.000 A lot of booze, a lot of partying, a lot of fucking off, you know?
02:20:33.000 A lot of luxury, you know, not waking up.
02:20:33.000 Yeah.
02:20:35.000 Mm hmm.
02:20:35.000 That's.
02:20:37.000 It's hard to go running.
02:20:38.000 Also, the difference, as you said before, between 45 and, you know, and going all the way up.
02:20:43.000 Now he wants to fight at 70, you know?
02:20:45.000 Yeah, and he's also.
02:20:46.000 That's a.
02:20:47.000 Weight class of killers right there.
02:20:49.000 You talk about Carlos Prates and these and this and that.
02:20:51.000 I'm like.
02:20:52.000 Morales, bro.
02:20:53.000 Yeah.
02:20:54.000 Yeah.
02:20:54.000 Morales.
02:20:55.000 That guy's giant.
02:20:56.000 Those guys are all huge.
02:20:57.000 Even Ian Gary, you saw him sparring Connor, and he's far bigger than Connor is.
02:20:57.000 Huge.
02:21:03.000 Connor's not that ginormous of a guy, from my understanding.
02:21:06.000 He gets pretty thick, but he's not really that big of an individual.
02:21:11.000 Now, 55 is really probably as heavy as he should be fighting at, realistically, when you think about those guys.
02:21:17.000 Yeah, but then is he going to cut the weight to do that?
02:21:19.000 It's hard.
02:21:20.000 Is he going to do all that stuff?
02:21:21.000 Well, if he doesn't want to do that, he really probably shouldn't be fighting.
02:21:24.000 I mean, he, the only thing with that is that he can kind of pick who it is he's fighting to an extent.
02:21:30.000 And so he can get away with the weight class thing a little bit.
02:21:33.000 Yeah, he can.
02:21:34.000 He can do whatever the fuck he wants.
02:21:35.000 But, you know, if I was in his, it's also at his age, should he even be cutting that kind of weight anymore?
02:21:41.000 Right.
02:21:41.000 Maybe just pick the real fight is 170 with Michael Chandler.
02:21:46.000 Like, have that fight.
02:21:47.000 You want to have one more fight and go out?
02:21:49.000 You know?
02:21:49.000 That would be beautiful for him.
02:21:50.000 Because Max is a tough, it's a tough matchup for him.
02:21:50.000 Yeah.
02:21:54.000 If he doesn't get Max out of there in the first two rounds, and good luck with that.
02:21:54.000 It's tough.
02:21:57.000 Like, Max is going to, I mean, Max's whole strategy was, we're going to drown him.
02:22:02.000 Yeah.
02:22:04.000 That's what his thoughts were.
02:22:06.000 Yeah.
02:22:08.000 That's a tough one.
02:22:09.000 Max is as tough as they come, and he's fighting the top of the top consistently.
02:22:14.000 So he's only getting better.
02:22:16.000 He's only getting more experienced.
02:22:17.000 I think Michael Chandler would be great regardless.
02:22:21.000 I think it draws the crowd.
02:22:22.000 I think it brings the energy to it.
02:22:24.000 I think that's a good skill level for Connor Chandler.
02:22:26.000 They went through the whole ultimate fighter thing together and talked all the shit to each other.
02:22:29.000 It's like, It's crazy that Chandler sat in the shell for like two years waiting for that fight.
02:22:35.000 And then finally he's like, all right, I guess it's not happening.
02:22:37.000 Right.
02:22:38.000 Yeah.
02:22:38.000 He got fucked.
02:22:40.000 He did.
02:22:43.000 And Chandler to me is like, he's very physically tough.
02:22:46.000 I just, you know, I don't think he is as skillful as Max or some of these other guys.
02:22:51.000 So I think that's a great fight for Connor.
02:22:53.000 I think that's a good one for him to come back on.
02:22:55.000 I mean, Chandler's a wild dog.
02:22:55.000 Yeah.
02:22:57.000 He is a wild dog, but he relies on that too much, is what I've seen.
02:23:00.000 He comes out all crazy.
02:23:02.000 And it's just like, dude, like, that's the same thing.
02:23:04.000 Start with a jab.
02:23:05.000 Start.
02:23:06.000 Oh, and it's who am I to say it quite yet?
02:23:08.000 You know, he's there doing his thing.
02:23:10.000 But from my perspective, you know, there needs to be a little bit more calculation there.
02:23:14.000 Well, it's not going to happen at this stage of his career.
02:23:17.000 But, yeah, if you go back and watch his Eddie Alvarez fights back when he was fighting in Bellator, those were.
02:23:21.000 Yeah, that was.
02:23:22.000 But that's like a war back and forth, you know?
02:23:24.000 Like, both those guys hit the canvas like.
02:23:25.000 Insane.
02:23:26.000 Three or four times each, you know?
02:23:28.000 Those fights were insane.
02:23:29.000 Yeah.
02:23:30.000 Some of the.
02:23:31.000 Like, for people that, like, you want to see a great fight that you probably never saw before, if you only watch the UFC.
02:23:36.000 Go back and watch Michael Chandler versus Eddie Alvarez, one and two.
02:23:41.000 Those fights are nuts.
02:23:43.000 Right.
02:23:43.000 Yeah, like I said, it's just like a war back and forth.
02:23:47.000 But that's also.
02:23:48.000 The Pitbulls.
02:23:48.000 And Chandler is a very physical guy.
02:23:51.000 He's very explosive.
02:23:52.000 And just think back at his prime, how much more explosive he was, how much power he had, how much energy he was delivering to that fight.
02:24:01.000 And that's why he was performing like that.
02:24:04.000 But like a lot of fighters, like the Roy Jones and stuff, you can't always rely on that, especially in your later years.
02:24:09.000 Like that's.
02:24:10.000 You got to be thinking with this, especially as your body starts to get a little bit slower and not as explosive.
02:24:10.000 Back to this.
02:24:17.000 So, I don't know.
02:24:19.000 He's over there getting after it.
02:24:21.000 I mean, that Gagey fight, he was definitely not on the winning end of it, but he stayed in it and fought hard.
02:24:27.000 And then the Poirier fight, he's had some great fights.
02:24:30.000 He's had some great fights for sure.
02:24:31.000 I mean, you fight a guy like Rufy, Rufy's just on a tear right now.
02:24:34.000 If you don't take him down to the ground, there's not a lot of people that beat him on a pure striking match right now, anyway.
02:24:41.000 So good.
02:24:42.000 See, that's another one.
02:24:42.000 Yeah, he's.
02:24:43.000 That's another, like, individual that you look at it like a work of art, you know, someone who really understands what it means to be a striker.
02:24:52.000 Yeah, and super creative.
02:24:54.000 Like, he does a lot of wild stuff in sparring.
02:24:56.000 There's some awesome sparring footage of him, like, pulling off Crescent kicks when he's, like, two inches from you.
02:25:01.000 Yeah, he's, like, backfist.
02:25:02.000 Yeah.
02:25:03.000 He's artistic.
02:25:04.000 I mean, he's very creative when he's in there.
02:25:06.000 It's beautiful to watch.
02:25:08.000 He's got a great fight coming up.
02:25:11.000 Who is he fighting?
02:25:13.000 Why did I blank on it?
02:25:15.000 He's fighting someone.
02:25:19.000 Oh, Armand Sariukian.
02:25:20.000 Oh, yeah.
02:25:21.000 Yes.
02:25:23.000 About two or three weeks.
02:25:24.000 Yes.
02:25:25.000 Armand Saruki, and they're fighting in LA.
02:25:29.000 That's a good fight.
02:25:30.000 That's a really good fight.
02:25:33.000 And that's the whole thing with him.
02:25:34.000 He's got to make sure he doesn't get taken down against someone like Armand Saruki.
02:25:38.000 That's a tall task right there.
02:25:40.000 Yeah, absolutely.
02:25:41.000 That guy's one of the best wrestlers in the sport.
02:25:43.000 It's interesting to see him stay relevant outside the UFC when the UFC hasn't been offering fights.
02:25:49.000 Yeah.
02:25:49.000 That's great.
02:25:50.000 He's doing his thing.
02:25:50.000 Very smart.
02:25:51.000 He's doing his thing.
02:25:52.000 It's very smart what he's doing.
02:25:53.000 And, you know, getting into the RAF matches and doing a bunch of different things on social media.
02:25:59.000 He just stays out there.
02:26:00.000 Yeah.
02:26:00.000 He's hanging out with all the Twitch streamers and stuff.
02:26:02.000 It's not like he needs money, you know.
02:26:02.000 Mm hmm.
02:26:04.000 Right.
02:26:04.000 He's good on that part.
02:26:06.000 That's weird.
02:26:07.000 It's weird for a guy to be that good who's rich.
02:26:09.000 Right.
02:26:10.000 He's so good.
02:26:11.000 See, that's so tough.
02:26:12.000 Two trains of thought there.
02:26:12.000 Yeah.
02:26:13.000 It's like either have all the amenities to do so or like you have all the amenities so then you're a pussy.
02:26:19.000 You don't need to do anything.
02:26:20.000 Yeah, you're soft.
02:26:21.000 You just sit around.
02:26:22.000 He's fucking shredded and he grew up rich.
02:26:22.000 But not him.
02:26:25.000 Yeah, he's good rich.
02:26:27.000 He's literally Bruce Wayne.
02:26:29.000 He's the UFC Bruce Wayne.
02:26:31.000 He's Bruce Wayne.
02:26:32.000 I mean, he's always got Ferraris and shit.
02:26:34.000 You know, you ever watch his video series on YouTube, his training series?
02:26:38.000 Which one?
02:26:39.000 Like the vlogs?
02:26:40.000 Yeah, so they roll into a town.
02:26:42.000 Like he rolls into LA.
02:26:43.000 First thing he does is go and rent a Lamborghini.
02:26:46.000 So when he shows up at training, he's driving around a rented Lamborghini everywhere.
02:26:50.000 He's got that kind of scratch.
02:26:51.000 Right.
02:26:53.000 And yet he's training like a fucking absolute animal, and he's a great fighter.
02:26:57.000 Right.
02:26:58.000 I mean, he has no flaws in his game.
02:26:59.000 No flaw in terms of heart.
02:27:01.000 It's like his first fight with Islam was fucking chaos.
02:27:01.000 He doesn't quit.
02:27:05.000 He gave Islam one of the toughest fights of his career.
02:27:07.000 Right.
02:27:08.000 I think that's probably the closest, besides obviously Islam's loss, that he really got tested like that, you know?
02:27:15.000 Absolutely.
02:27:16.000 And that was a short notice, wasn't it, for Armand?
02:27:18.000 Yes.
02:27:19.000 So he's got all the skills.
02:27:21.000 He's a top contender for sure.
02:27:23.000 And when you think about Rufi, the real problem that he had in the UFC was that one fight with Benoit Saint Denis where he got taken down.
02:27:31.000 And.
02:27:33.000 You know, Benoit is obviously a very elite grappler.
02:27:36.000 So it'd be interesting to see if he can avoid Armand.
02:27:41.000 That's the big question right there, for sure.
02:27:44.000 I would think that that's what his camp is surrounded around is take down defense, getting up off the bottom, blocking some chokes, and being able to get back to the feet.
02:27:56.000 I mean, that's the thing.
02:27:57.000 That's, you know, for the MMA striker guys, it's not like you have to be like the dopest wrestler, like.
02:28:03.000 All around, but you do need to be really good at defending takedowns.
02:28:07.000 Yeah.
02:28:07.000 And you do need to have one, two, three escapes off the bottom, a sweep, some kind of ability to stand up, you know, and then, yeah, get back to your feet and make this a close fight.
02:28:20.000 If you get stuck on the bottom, then you're done for.
02:28:22.000 You're screwed.
02:28:23.000 And I think for a lot of these guys that are elite strikers, it takes that one fight where you do get dominated on the ground to really have a wake up call.
02:28:31.000 And I think a good example of that might be Cyril Gahn.
02:28:35.000 When Cyril Gahn fought John Jones, Yeah.
02:28:37.000 You know, and also Francis.
02:28:39.000 Francis beat him up on the ground as well.
02:28:40.000 Right.
02:28:40.000 But the John Jones one was, I think, a real humbling wake up call because John essentially avoided getting hit completely, took him down, and strangled him real quick.
02:28:49.000 Right.
02:28:50.000 And then he's sitting there like, fuck.
02:28:52.000 And from that moment on, that dude's been on a tear.
02:28:56.000 Right.
02:28:56.000 I mean, and you see how he performed on the White House lawn against, you know, what we thought is arguably one of the greatest strikers that's ever fought in the UFC, Alex Pereira.
02:29:07.000 And he certainly was at middleweight and light heavyweight, but.
02:29:10.000 Cyril Gaunt at heavyweight is something special, man.
02:29:13.000 There's a good example of a guy that you were talking about who hits and doesn't get hit.
02:29:13.000 Yeah.
02:29:16.000 We've literally never seen him get rocked.
02:29:18.000 Right.
02:29:19.000 Which is crazy.
02:29:19.000 Well, that's like.
02:29:20.000 And he's got that Savat ish style.
02:29:23.000 I wouldn't say it's completely Savat, but he bounces.
02:29:25.000 It's almost like that karate Savat.
02:29:27.000 He moves really well in and out.
02:29:29.000 Dude, if you can do that at a heavyweight, you're that big and you can move like that.
02:29:32.000 It's going to be very difficult for a lot of those guys to track you in.
02:29:35.000 Absolutely.
02:29:36.000 And, you know, we were talking about point fighting.
02:29:38.000 Like how point fighting has such a great skill to learn.
02:29:43.000 Another great skill to learn is basketball.
02:29:46.000 And that's what Cyril Gahn did.
02:29:47.000 He played a lot of basketball.
02:29:49.000 And if you think about a big guy.
02:29:51.000 Where you're constantly exploding and moving and all this different changing directions.
02:29:56.000 Yeah.
02:29:57.000 That would definitely benefit you with footwork.
02:29:58.000 Yeah, there's all sorts of hand eye coordination.
02:30:00.000 You've got to be very quick and, yeah, be able to move your hands and your feet in succession.
02:30:03.000 So.
02:30:04.000 Because look, nobody, no heavyweights move like that guy.
02:30:06.000 Right.
02:30:08.000 He's the gold standard for, like, elite moving heavyweights in the UFC.
02:30:11.000 It's zero gone.
02:30:12.000 And then there's no close second.
02:30:14.000 Like, think, who's the close second at heavyweight?
02:30:17.000 You've got to go back to.
02:30:18.000 He really moves like that.
02:30:19.000 Travis Brown, when he was in his prime.
02:30:21.000 Travis Brown, when he was in his prime, was very light on his feet and moved very well.
02:30:25.000 But I think Cyril Gahn is like a new level, a new level of like elite mobile heavyweight who also has ridiculous knockout power.
02:30:33.000 Yeah, for sure.
02:30:34.000 I mean, I would say the only person that rivals his speed and agility would be maybe like a Hokit.
02:30:40.000 I haven't really seen.
02:30:42.000 Hokit's fast, but don't you think he's got that kind of footwork speed?
02:30:47.000 Not at all.
02:30:48.000 There's no comparison on the skill levels of that movement and the striking.
02:30:52.000 He just has similar speed and agility.
02:30:55.000 What Hokit has is elite wrestling, though.
02:30:57.000 Yeah.
02:30:58.000 A lot of shit talking.
02:30:59.000 A lot of shit talking.
02:31:01.000 He gets people riled up.
02:31:02.000 I don't know.
02:31:03.000 I think that's also something that Connor did really well.
02:31:06.000 You got these guys going into a fight going, I cannot get beat by this guy.
02:31:09.000 He just did.
02:31:10.000 He said this and this and this.
02:31:11.000 And I have all this pressure.
02:31:12.000 And you could see it.
02:31:13.000 You saw it on Jose Aldo.
02:31:16.000 What was the other Brazilian he fought?
02:31:22.000 I don't know.
02:31:23.000 It starts with an R. You've fought him before.
02:31:27.000 Maybe it was a second fight?
02:31:29.000 I don't know why I'm blanking on his name.
02:31:31.000 Yeah, I know who you're talking about.
02:31:32.000 I'm seeing who I'm talking about.
02:31:34.000 He runs out all crazy.
02:31:35.000 Just everybody.
02:31:36.000 He gets in wild.
02:31:38.000 If you have that added pressure, it's a psychological effect.
02:31:41.000 And I think Hulkhead does the same thing.
02:31:43.000 He takes people out of their comfort zone.
02:31:45.000 Now everything's extra tense.
02:31:46.000 Everything's guarded.
02:31:50.000 You're not taking any chances or risks or stepping out of line.
02:31:55.000 You're very, very safe and secluded.
02:31:58.000 You have to be loose when you're fighting.
02:32:00.000 You can't be thinking that.
02:32:01.000 And you probably didn't sleep good the night before because you fucking hate this guy.
02:32:04.000 Yeah.
02:32:05.000 And then you're like, yeah, riled up, pissed off.
02:32:07.000 All I want to do is take his head off.
02:32:08.000 You're not thinking about technique.
02:32:10.000 You're thinking about taking his head off.
02:32:11.000 That's it.
02:32:12.000 One big overhand.
02:32:13.000 It's like, dude, when you fight angry, then you had all this skill, and your emotion could take it right out of you.
02:32:19.000 See, that's another aspect of this striking game, of this MMA game.
02:32:23.000 Do you think that that should be taught more, the mental aspect of the game, of just being able to stay in your own head?
02:32:31.000 Not get affected by these outside influences, not get affected by, and understand what these things are.
02:32:37.000 So when you encounter them, you know, like you have a coach, I think, that could teach you not just how to fight, but also how to maintain your peace of mind and how to maintain your focus and not get distracted.
02:32:50.000 Oh, 100%.
02:32:52.000 I don't know.
02:32:53.000 Like everybody's individual, you know?
02:32:54.000 It's hard to have a program because you have guys that go to like athletic therapists or whatever, like performance therapists, and they sit and they do all that stuff.
02:33:05.000 I think a little bit is you're born with it.
02:33:07.000 You have the ability to control emotions better than others.
02:33:10.000 Some people go through, again, back to just hard life experiences is the best teacher.
02:33:16.000 So a lot of people learn that way.
02:33:19.000 I don't know.
02:33:20.000 I don't know what it is for each individual person.
02:33:22.000 Me, the third person I train with is my boxing coach, Dale Royble, out of his garage in his front yard.
02:33:33.000 We talk spiritually beyond just boxing.
02:33:37.000 We talk about the world.
02:33:38.000 We delve into the spirituality of the gospel and God and what that means to us.
02:33:46.000 He's a big time recurve guy.
02:33:48.000 That's who I went and did my archery competition with.
02:33:49.000 He's a big time leather working guy.
02:33:53.000 And so we just sit and talk about what it means to be a warrior, the philosophy and the psychology behind that, what it means to control your emotions.
02:34:00.000 When you're engaged with certain aspects in life, how do you come out on the other side of it?
02:34:05.000 Like every day, I mean, oftentimes we just stop and we're just sitting and talking about things.
02:34:09.000 And, you know, my wife's always like, You're just sitting there talking, hanging out with them.
02:34:13.000 Like, this is part of training, babe.
02:34:15.000 We're talking psychology, you know, like it's something we got to spend extra time doing.
02:34:20.000 But I do.
02:34:20.000 Like, I get there and we'll sit and talk for 30 minutes sometimes before we even warm up.
02:34:25.000 I'm stretching and we.
02:34:26.000 Then we get into it.
02:34:27.000 He starts wrapping hands like we're always just adjusting and constantly talking about it.
02:34:32.000 So, to me, that's fantastic.
02:34:37.000 It makes fighting spiritual to me.
02:34:40.000 It takes it another level up.
02:34:42.000 And then, yeah, I mean, I got him.
02:34:44.000 We really connect on a lot of things.
02:34:46.000 Eric Paulson is an absolute legend of the game.
02:34:48.000 I have a lot of experience that I learned from him, a lot of mindset.
02:34:52.000 He's the same way.
02:34:54.000 Ben Jones, he's the guy that you want to go into battle with.
02:34:57.000 He's the one that you guys hear in the corner that's super loud.
02:35:00.000 He's the kind of guy that, yeah, he's putting you through that hardship mentally and physically in the room.
02:35:06.000 And if you can endure that, then you can go out and fight.
02:35:09.000 So I think there's different levels to it.
02:35:12.000 You got to get it in different ways.
02:35:13.000 But it's interpersonal, you know, and you got to delve into that.
02:35:19.000 And it's got to be its own practice, its own training for the day.
02:35:22.000 I mean, yeah, if you get riled up by the littlest thing and then you go out there and you try to go crazy, you're just like a kindergartner in this fight game.
02:35:22.000 So 100%.
02:35:30.000 You've lost everything, and emotion can do that to you.
02:35:33.000 So, yeah, I mean, you have to be on top of that.
02:35:35.000 It's, you know, I say there's so many levels to this there's the cardio, there's skill set, there's being relaxed, there's an emotional aspect that you have to think about.
02:35:45.000 Like, you know, because everybody gets hit and, like, what's the natural reaction?
02:35:49.000 I'm going to get you right back.
02:35:50.000 But the best fighter can get hit and just not even think about it, not even get riled up one heart.
02:35:56.000 You know, their heartbeat doesn't even go up one level.
02:35:58.000 Bam.
02:35:59.000 The game plan stays the same.
02:36:00.000 Bam, bam, bam.
02:36:01.000 I'm intelligently blocking.
02:36:02.000 I'm doing my stuff.
02:36:03.000 I've never deviated from what I'm doing.
02:36:05.000 And if you could do that, Beautiful.
02:36:07.000 You got it.
02:36:08.000 That's an awesome mindset, brother.
02:36:09.000 I can't wait to see you inside there again.
02:36:12.000 And thank you very much for being here.
02:36:13.000 It was a lot of fun.
02:36:14.000 I really enjoyed it.
02:36:15.000 Thanks for having me.
02:36:15.000 It was a great experience.
02:36:16.000 My pleasure.
02:36:17.000 Good luck in the future.
02:36:18.000 I'm sure I'll be calling one of your fights soon.
02:36:19.000 Yes, sir.
02:36:20.000 All right.
02:36:21.000 Beautiful.
02:36:21.000 Bye, everybody.