00:01:08.100Catholic Republic is my first, and The Case for Patriarchy,
00:01:11.980which is what that movie is based upon that you're talking about,
00:01:15.140what a woman is, are two of my five books.
00:01:17.400I've been in the game for about eight years on YouTube. First year I was doing it was with
00:01:24.680Taylor Marshall on his channel on that TNT show of 2018-2019 fame, the last seven years.
00:01:31.960I'm very findable on YouTube on my own channel, Timothy Gordon. Rules for Retrogrades is the
00:01:37.500title of the podcast. I'm currently making a second documentary on my first book, a second
00:01:43.180documentary total on my first book, Catholic Republic. There will be some big headliner
00:01:48.080names and a big headliner distributor for that one too. Question 27 of the Roman Catechism,
00:01:54.960the duties of a wife. And I'll say this, the first half is not quite explosive like the back half of
00:02:03.340it. On the other hand, the duties of a wife are thus enumerated by the Prince of the Apostles.
00:02:08.280let wives be subject to their husbands that if any believe not the word they also may without
00:02:14.140the word be won by the conversation of the wives while they behold your chaste conversation with
00:02:19.260fear whose adorning let it not be that outward plating of the hair or wearing of gold or putting
00:02:25.520on of apparel but the hidden man of the heart in that which is not corruptible of a quiet and
00:02:31.420meek spirit which is in the sight of god of great price for after this manner in the old time
00:02:38.200the holy women also who trusted in God adorned themselves being in subjection unto their own
00:02:43.980husbands. Here's where it becomes more interesting. Even as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord,
00:02:52.500it should also be a principal study of theirs to train up their children in the practice of
00:02:56.440religion and to take particular care of the domestic concerns. Unless compelled by necessity
00:03:02.140to go out, they should willingly keep themselves at home and should never venture to leave home
00:03:07.700without the permission of their husbands. Again, and in this, the conjugal union chiefly consists,
00:03:14.480let them always remember that next to God, they're to love no one more than their husband,
00:03:19.920to esteem no one more highly, yielding to him in all things, not inconsistent with Christian piety,
00:03:25.440the most willing and cheerful obedience. Okay, then. Well, that's going to ruffle some feathers
00:03:32.540to say the least um to unpack that last part a little bit even the concept of
00:03:40.400beyond god to love your husband first sounds weird as odd as that may seem because i think
00:03:47.800most would say well your children obviously when you were doing the film i think father
00:03:53.540ripiger actually pointed to these teachings uh saying them very plainly i'm sure you got a lot
00:04:00.220of pushback? What's what's sort of the main pushback for you, as you found as you were
00:04:06.220going through this on these issues here? You might not believe it. But what we received
00:04:11.360over the last several months is just email after email after email of conversion by by women just
00:04:19.280saying, wow, this is so right. I've started living this way. And everything seemed to fit after 30
00:04:25.300years, 20 years, 10 years, a couple years, the pushback, I have to go on like Reddit boards and
00:04:32.340stuff, which I don't like doing anyway, you know, never read your negative clippings or really your
00:04:36.540positive. Neither is good for the soul. But I not too many critics have reached out and offered even
00:04:44.020the usual calm box or chat box critique. Everyone who's who's seen it, that's reached out has been
00:04:51.380And it's been many, many dozens, even in the triple figures, have said this just works.
00:04:59.160It's so obvious, but I didn't see it before.
00:05:02.120It's like some sort of conversion chamber where it might sound strange before, like any sort of emperor's new clothes, obvious truth of not only scripture, but just natural law.
00:05:12.800This is something that everyone kind of knows in their heart.
00:05:15.620But until they allow themselves to say the word, they're not undone by the spell of feminism.
00:05:22.060I mean, the idea that, you know, for a Christian especially, that the husband is the leader and that he should be loved next to God and that he is the householder and that a wife owes him obedience is sort of like saying two and two is four.
00:05:38.760and yet Christians everywhere, because they've kind of come under the spell,
00:05:44.220confront it at some decisive moment in their formation. And for a lot of people,
00:05:48.740it's been 60 year olds saying, you know, wow, Tim, I've lived this way my whole life,
00:05:53.860the feminist way. And, and, um, I, I guess this is just really obvious, isn't it? It works.
00:06:00.100Do you think that Candace's endorsement has helped that way? Cause I mean, I'm,
00:06:05.300I'm pretty stunned to hear the witness testimony that that's just,
00:09:04.460So this idea of obedience is beyond where he's right.
00:09:09.220In other words, where he makes sense to her or where he is even right in terms of this direction we should take with our route for the trip, let's say, even if it's wrong, apart from the difference, the difference being where there's sin.
00:09:31.380If anyone asks you to sin, whether he's an angel or whatever, anyone in authority, the pope or anything, you refuse.
00:09:40.340But this direction from the husband is to be taken regardless of right or wrong in an earthly sense, not a moral sense.
00:09:51.140I mean, when you consider, when I consider the alternative, I think it's preposterous.
00:09:56.940Like if you'd read a woman with a job, 76 percent of Catholic women from the previous generations worked at a job, if her boss gave her an order and, you know, let's say she's the VP or something to the president of the company.
00:10:15.480Well, if the president, who's still her boss, she still has this dignified role and her opinion counts, at least as a matter of first impression, or she can say, I don't know, and push back once.
00:10:27.940If the president says, no, no, that's a good suggestion, I appreciate, but we're really going to do it this way.
00:10:33.040Think of how odd, what a clown world or through the looking glass kind of vignette this presents to show everyone being staggered, shocked that she's got to do what her boss says ultimately.
00:10:50.700No one pretends that this hypothetical woman who's vice president is infantilized or stripped of her dignity or anything like that.
00:11:00.060And this is her freaking boss, you know, cue up G.K. Chesterton and all the paradoxes that he was saying in the early 20th century about women are willing to – working women are willing to listen to their bosses but not their husbands.
00:11:14.300I really don't – in all honesty, I don't agree that any of – that the Roman catechism contains any hard truths at all.
00:11:22.920I mean it's a hard truth to, you know, the Trinity or maybe the bread of life discourse.
00:11:28.840We have to consume our Savior, body, blood, soul, divinity.
00:11:33.220But to say that a woman must, at the end of the day, follow her boss to whom she swore obedient on the marital altar is so in accord with nature and so in accord with the Bible.
00:11:47.600And even all seven of the first 20th century popes say exactly what the Roman catechism said.
00:11:54.720It's actually not such a hard teaching when you re-look at it.
00:11:58.280Once you've had the conversion and you just say, wow, this is the witchcraft of not only
00:12:03.240feminism, but just mimetic desire, you know, you've been outwinked, everyone out there.
00:13:33.600This is utterly, utterly anti-Aristotelian.
00:13:37.940It's anti-Thomistic in the sense that St. Thomas and Aristotle say,
00:13:42.260no, the best friendships in life are friendships not of peers, but of unequals.
00:13:48.560Aristotle argues this, I think, in the seventh book of the Nicomachean Ethics, and he repeats it in the third book of the Politics, and St. Thomas gives it as full endorsement.
00:13:57.700Best friendships are that between a king, meaning in like a polis, and his subject, you know, friendship of unequal.
00:14:05.900Father and his son, best friendship of unequals, and a husband and his wife.
00:14:11.580So you can form these close friendships that waspy people after the Enlightenment and the Reformation christen or sort of black christen with the notion of egalitarianism.
00:14:23.320They sprinkle that poison water of egalitarianism all over and they say, well, peer friendships, those are the best ones.
00:14:29.220Those are the ones informing modern psychology and DSM-5.
00:14:33.060You know, you get into trouble with your friends.
00:14:35.400A friend is just a lover of your soul for Aristotle and St. Thomas and the church.
00:14:40.020And the best friends are the ones who love you so much.
00:14:44.100Like a king with the subjects, it, of course, comes from the model of King Jesus.
00:14:48.460And a father with his son, you would never, as a knowledgeable Catholic, say, I'm your father, not your friend.
00:15:05.020And, of course, St. Thomas will say of these three examples, he'll imply that there's only one of these that grows, these friendships of unequals, that grows into a single body, you know, one head members, and that is husband-wife.
00:15:23.680So Jesus raises it to the dignity of sacrament at Cana,
00:15:27.780and therefore it's even a holier, closer, more intimate best friendship between husband and wife.
00:15:34.680Some of the red pill guys mock this notion as feminist.
00:20:45.300A woman who chooses to marry a man, you are.
00:20:48.020Now you go from a position of relative sovereignty, if you're 20 or 21 or 22, you got to pick anyone in the world you wanted.
00:20:56.700You got to deny any suitors who ask you.
00:21:00.520You're like, no, that's not the right temperament for me.
00:21:02.420No, I'm just not attracted to that dude.
00:21:04.220No, that's not the right temperament for me.
00:21:06.300But when you find it, you're picking your boss.
00:21:08.720So it's actually far, far, far, far better than a typical job where you don't get to pick your boss.
00:21:13.880If you go start working, bagging groceries, your boss is, if he's mean, you're stuck with it, and you'll obey everything he does, you know, young women.
00:21:25.960You pick someone that is going to be the best boss for you, knowing, once we start telling our daughters once again, that you're going to have to obey everything.
00:21:35.900So take that decision really seriously, but you're still operating under self-determination.
00:21:40.920my dear friends the mother of god is calling you to her shrine at fatima where she performed
00:21:48.580the most outstanding public miracle in human history to warn us of the calamity the world
00:21:55.120and the church are undergoing right now join world-renowned prophecy experts xavier eral
00:22:01.480ted flynn father paul kramer and your favorite life site personalities father charles murr father
00:22:06.980Altman, Frank Wright, and myself, along with special guest Cary Brajean Buller, for a powerful
00:22:14.140conference dedicated to Our Lady Mediatrics of All Graces.
00:22:17.840November 11th and 12th, stand where Jacinta, Francisco, and Lucia once played.
00:22:24.880The very well where the angel of peace, the guardian angel of Portugal, appeared in 1916,
00:22:31.220urging prayers and sacrifices for the conversion of sinners.
00:22:34.960Walk the paths with us between the children's homes
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00:23:14.860And don't miss the unforgettable Fatto Music evening. Seats are limited. Book by August 30th
00:23:20.500and lock in the best seats for every event. This is more than just a conference. It's your
00:23:26.120invitation from heaven to make a pilgrimage of reparation for the attempt to strip our mother
00:23:31.760of her titles. We will honor her as co-redemptrix and mediatrix of all graces in the very place she
00:23:38.840came to warn us, to warn our generation. The time of fulfillment is upon us. Let's show her that
00:23:47.180there are still some of her children who love and venerate her. Let's answer our lady's call
00:23:53.800together. Seats are limited, so reserve now. In the fallout, I think, of a lot of this discussion,
00:24:03.100you got into some controversial areas, even for most people, and it was, I think you called it
00:24:09.620diaper gate at one time. Your thoughts on men should not be changing diapers, for the most part,
00:24:15.780there's exceptions, but your thought was they shouldn't be. Explain that for us.
00:24:20.500Well, a few grounding tidbits of context for one thing.
00:24:24.260This came from mega Lily White, who's a good Catholic, really, really good Catholic woman.
00:24:30.680Very likable young woman who tweeted like, look, I don't know, have the right quote in front of me.
00:24:36.200But what she said is I find it really unattractive.
00:24:39.400I think there's something really odd if a man is changing diapers for she meant for infants.
00:24:46.160And I defended her, you know, and he was she was kind of in the process of.
00:24:50.500of RCIA or whatever, OCIA at the time and coming in. So I was the better known Catholic entity and
00:24:55.960I defended her and everyone thought it was my tweet. But I'm like, yeah, no, I'll defend that
00:24:59.780then. I'll still defend it now. Her point was functional gender dysphoria. And this is why we
00:25:05.360covered it. She's in what a woman is, really delightful person. Her point was she's not even
00:25:11.000a provocateur. She's just a really, really pleasant young married woman with children.
00:25:16.440You know, functional gender dysphoria. What's the expectation? Kind of like a man who's a layabout who expects his wife to do his job to, you know, to go in for him. Let's say he works from home and he just sleeps in and expects the wife to get up and, you know, log the first two hours for him from his home office or something.
00:25:41.080that's what mega and we've talked about it a million times since then that's what she sees
00:25:46.160everywhere uh around her in she she was living in another country i'm distinctly living in the west
00:25:52.320that's what i see here that's what my friend will nolan was saying he's seeing in great britain
00:25:57.260that's what my friend uh mike pentile was saying yeah this is everywhere in canada so we've checked
00:26:03.980and everyone kind of knows you know you can believe us or your own lying eyes you know
00:26:08.380So it's not one of those cases. We all know this is what's going on. Because of feminism, women are testing, you know, S-testing men, I'm not sure what we can say here, to see what they can get away with.
00:26:25.020And widely speaking, it became the cultural norm that the, you know, to use the analogy,
00:26:33.040the husband, you know, his alarm goes off, he yells at the wife, get up, clock, log my
00:28:04.700So that is in that segment of the movie you'll probably remember.
00:28:08.760They're talking about changing the rules, which is what functional gender dysphoria is all about.
00:28:14.040confusing the sexes, making them hate their own sex and their own role. Women's bodies are,
00:28:20.480for heaven's sakes, literally make them into wet nurses. And this co-attends the primary
00:28:27.180goal of feminism, which was to get women out of the home, particularly when they're infants,
00:28:32.640but really, more broadly speaking, all the time, and just get them away from their small or
00:28:38.360growing children. I have an infant in the house, as most traditional people do. If you always have
00:28:43.900little kids around. I mean, I don't even know how women do the working, but I'm pretty much not
00:28:49.620around the smaller kids alone until they're one, two, three, then, you know, three, you start
00:28:56.320spending more one-on-one time with them to, you know, when the dad plays with them, I don't even
00:29:00.860know how working women are pulling this off. You just have to feed them so much when they're small.
00:29:06.060We have really small babies. We got to, you know, my wife is intent on fattening them up and,
00:29:10.280you know feeding and changing go hand in hand so a lot of our audience would be non-working moms
00:29:18.040who who are at home with their kids but they would particularly the ones who would have like we had
00:29:23.620we had seven children in nine years then we lost three and then we had another one but
00:29:28.020you know they're all older now but in those beginning years when I was working from home too
00:29:34.080because I've been doing life site forever now there were a lot of times when I had to help out
00:29:39.020with childcare because there was so many little ones and my wife was either breastfeeding and or
00:29:47.180doing something that was totally occupying with one. And there was sort of an emergency with the
00:29:52.120others. Um, you're not talking about not being able to do that or are you? Well, this is the
00:29:57.400first thing that always happens. You know, people will, cause I have a call in segment at the end
00:30:01.480of my, my show, you know, rules for retrogrades on YouTube and people will go, well, does this
00:30:06.740apply to me. I mean, it's kind of just like saying, Hey, you know, the, the old meme, you say
00:30:11.420water's wet. It's just a truth of the universe. Like the Roman catechism is saying here. And
00:30:16.340people are like, well, what about in this case, if you go to the surface of Mars, you bring a
00:30:21.440microwave, you, you try, you know, you dry out a cup of water and it theoretically isn't supposed
00:30:26.740to, I'm just announcing water is wet. I'm not, I'm not, um, doing the dirty work of what you
00:30:32.520learn in law school is applying, learn the black letter law, but applying the black letter law to
00:30:37.540the facts is sort of all the work. It's sort of the whole story of our lives individually and
00:30:42.560corporately. So I'm not really telling people, especially men who are the sovereigns of their
00:30:49.260own household, exactly how to do it. But what I'm address, what I address and what, what mega
00:30:54.460is addressing is let's, let's keep the categories correct. Infant care is for women. And, um,
00:31:00.880And, you know, the men can decide in those instances, the men of their households could and should decide, well, here's my threshold for getting involved.
00:31:13.660I remember when I was doing studying to begin the doctorate in Rome at a pontifical school, you know, I asked my wife, hey, would you please go to this one classroom?
00:31:25.300It was a really cool class, Thomas and Islam.
00:31:28.420Professor was a really cool, famous guy.
00:31:30.280So I was like, you kind of enjoy this. I kind of want you to see it anyway, because we, you know, talk about everything. I've been trying to describe it to you. But I have a bad cold. Would you go take notes? And it turned into a funny situation. But I don't usually impose on Steph, my wife, to go do my job or to go take notes for me in class unless I deem it's really, really important.
00:31:50.660And so the underscore here is getting society back on tracks.
00:32:43.220You guys get up at nine, have a comfortable breakfast.
00:32:46.700I don't have to worry about them driving around in dangerous cars throughout the day.
00:32:51.160You know, I just know my whole family is safe doing homeschool.
00:32:54.020I'll call them after I teach my first class or two and maybe they'll be up.
00:32:57.360I always liked that precisely because it sets the conditions for the possibility of safety and comfort that are concomitant to wifeliness, you know.
00:33:08.180But at the end of the day, yeah, you can – it's a lovely life, the life of wives.
00:33:13.980They can really, unless you're a micromanager, which I am not, they can really set their own
00:33:20.900conditions, you know, wake up late, feed the baby in bed, maybe change the diaper. That's what my
00:33:26.240wife has always done. Change and feed right there. Start homeschool at even 10 a.m., you know, have a
00:33:32.040lovely life with plenty of beauty rest. Set your own schedule. Once school is done, we have eight
00:33:37.700kids. But my wife has always had ample time for journaling. You know, she's written two books,
00:33:44.300you know, gardening, watercolor. She plays the flute, hang out, take a nap. There's so much to
00:33:50.280do around the house that is concomitant with that, you know, that style of life. So to change
00:33:57.360a few diapers here is anything but asking too much. And that's what Megha was saying. And that's
00:34:02.440that's what we say in the movie where we're going to stand by the categories on that one. Water's
00:34:06.500wet yeah so it's just like having basically guardrails uh as to here's what the rules are
00:34:12.080and people can then play within those guardrails and they can be all sorts of variation very much
00:34:17.260like what the church teaches it's it sets the boundaries of where right and wrong is and within
00:34:23.560those boundaries everybody's allowed to play which is a lot better than the arbitrary we don't know
00:34:28.760where we're supposed to stand wanted to talk also about another area that you're really expert in
00:34:33.080and that is with regard to the death penalty. We have something off the page strange in what's
00:34:39.520going on in the church today, because we have a situation where the current official teaching
00:34:45.420of the church, sort of, if you will, at least the teaching of Francis and Leo,
00:34:51.920is the opposite of what it was in the whole of the church before that. Francis changes the
00:34:59.580catechism to basically say the death penalty is inadmissible when it was the whole teaching of
00:35:04.260the church before that it was admissible not only that that the states had the right to and that
00:35:09.100they could use it as a deterrent and it was even a a necessary following from the fifth commandment
00:35:16.800thou shalt not kill um so that they could um deal with those who do kill this is pope leo
00:35:24.200reiterating Francis's teaching, new teaching on the death penalty, and saying, on top of all that,
00:35:32.580that if you don't adhere to it, you're not really pro-life. Let's watch.
00:35:36.640Someone who says I'm against abortion, but says I'm in favor of the death penalty is not really
00:35:41.400pro-life. So someone who says that I'm against abortion, but I'm in agreement with the inhuman
00:35:49.800treatment of immigrants who are in the united states i don't know if that's pro-life so they're
00:35:54.440very complex issues i don't know if anyone has all the truth on them but i would ask first and
00:36:01.080foremost that there be greater respect for one another and that we search together both as human
00:36:07.560beings in that case as american citizens or citizens of the state of illinois as well as
00:36:13.560as catholics to say we need to you know really look closely at all of these ethical issues
00:36:19.640and to find the way forward as church. The church teaching on each one of those issues is very clear.
00:36:25.040I'd like to get your reaction to that. I know you're an expert on the death penalty.
00:36:29.040Love to hear your thoughts, first of all, on that, and then on where you think the church is today,
00:36:33.040given all the ruckus that's going on in this sort of thing.
00:36:37.100Well, I'll just start by saying that thank goodness for Ed Fazer and Joe Bissett.
00:36:42.520You know, I've been friends with Ed for 25 years or something.
00:36:46.800He happened to be a visiting professor at LMU when I was doing a master's there.
00:36:51.240And Joba said I took a class on the Senate of his when I was briefly in the doctoral program at Claremont.
00:36:57.140So when these two guys hooked up for their book on the death penalty, the goodness of the death penalty, allegedly it bore real fruits.
00:37:07.700And allegedly, what I hear from my connections in the Curia in Rome is that they were actually going to, Francis, that is, in 2017, was going to say more.
00:37:20.540He was going to use proper theological language preclusive of the death penalty.
00:37:26.640And he changed it to inadmissible because he got a hold of this book.
00:37:30.660And he just, someone, some advisors or something like that got a hold of him and said, you can't use the theological language because it would be wrong.
00:37:39.160And that's the, if that story is true, I've heard it a couple of places now, then that's the beauty of our magisterium.
00:37:45.620Even with a radical, a complete radical like Francis, they know they're bound.
00:37:50.800The strangeness of the story of the death penalty, I do not track to Francis.
00:37:55.460I lay this blame at the feet of John Paul II.
00:37:59.540Second, he had for the first time, just as we talked about the we only have two universal catechisms in the church.
00:38:07.900By the way, we were talking about this with feminism, only the Catechism of the Council of Trent, the Roman Catechism and the CCC, which was the first, you know, catechism in 400 some odd years.
00:38:21.200We hadn't had a catechism since the Roman Catechism right after the Reformation.
00:38:24.880jp2 one pope promulgates the ccc in 93 or 94 the same pope it's not even like a new pontificate
00:38:35.480just three and a half years later in 1997 issues a correction a catechetical correction of himself
00:38:44.860and this is where all the trouble begins really this is where i think 100 of the trouble accrues
00:38:50.420And in this 97 catechism, he corrects himself, essentially, as the promulgator.
00:38:56.080We know the two main authors of the CCC were not JP2.
00:43:21.600Even if that's probably true, you don't hold the prerogative that the state does.
00:43:27.520So in JP2's 97 Catechism, bear those two, that's it.
00:43:32.380Those are the only two times a human being can kill another.
00:43:35.360JP2, I should have gotten the language up in the actual thing, but he literally starts
00:43:42.320talking about the only continued niche instances of the ability for one human to kill another.
00:43:50.580He's talking about the state now, which always had this plenary authority, the authority of God to punish as if they can kill based on the principle of double effect, at which point you have to be operating on a consequentialist basis, only if it will save another life.
00:44:07.020And the funny thing is, this is where you can really prove that it's wrong.
00:44:11.680It's rare in philosophy that you can make a proof.
00:44:14.320But John Paul II uses language that says, OK, you're holding them in prison.
00:44:20.060So they're not in the act of killing anybody, but maybe it's a third world country of low max prison, low, you know, non-supermax prisons, and they're probably going to get out.
00:44:29.980Well, OK, in those cases, you can still kill them.
00:44:32.440What he's done is he's tried to hybridize the two licit instances of killing principle of double effect with the principle of retributivism.
00:44:42.320It's actually a contradiction of his own premise.
00:44:45.400Right. The state, if it's wrong for the state to kill in principle, a guilty accused, then it's wrong for the state to kill to achieve some good end, like saving a life, particularly a life when the guilty accused is just in a low max prison, not about to kill someone.
00:45:03.920So you can actually prove the error in JP2.
00:45:08.040He develops it further in the end of his life.
00:45:10.880Benedict is a little bit less vociferous about it, but he seems to be sympathetic to JP2's view.
00:45:17.000And then Francis just takes it a step further.
00:45:19.260But it's all based on this actual provable logical error.
00:45:24.300You can use symbolic logic and show where they're wrong.
00:45:26.620Not only do we have the death penalty change, we have Amoris Laetitia, we have Fiducii Subticans,
00:45:32.460We have the demotion of Our Lady. We have, let's go on and on. My favorite one, because I'm from
00:45:38.760the pro-life movement, is the intentional equation of abortion and immigration when it comes to
00:45:44.620political matters, which we find in Gaudete et Exultate. But these are all official teaching
00:45:51.140documents on faith and morals. The Pope intending to teach on faith and morals. The Catholic
00:45:57.880faithful are required to submit to these things in mind and will. And yes, there's exceptions for
00:46:03.620exceptional cases, but even in those exceptions, you're not supposed to make public your
00:46:09.100disagreements with the Holy Father. Where in the world are we? I was stunned when I heard
00:46:15.860Cardinals Sarah and Burke, etc., calling upon the SSPX for obedience when they are withholding that
00:46:24.360from the faith and morals teachings, which they swore to, uh, in their, uh, when they made the
00:46:30.080professional faith as bishops. The most stunned I've been, well, actually I was, I was stunned,
00:46:34.600but not, not, not really stunned was when Pope Leo the 14th said that he stands proudly in the
00:46:41.880lineage of Chicago archbishops from, uh, Bernadine. Cause Bernadine's the one that made up this idea
00:46:48.360that's whole life, you know, we're pro-life, but we're whole life. Um, I'm forgetting the little,
00:46:54.000the nifty little name he came up with for it. But the idea that pro-life means not just abortion
00:47:00.960and euthanasia, but it means, you know, poverty. It means all the leftist causes as well. That was
00:47:07.880a shocking moment. Seamless Garment is pretty much openly heretical. It hasn't been decried
00:47:15.080by a council, but that's shocking. And yeah, you're right. You're actually putting at the
00:47:22.100front of my mind that Leo is, is fully, fully against the death penalty. I've been, I haven't
00:47:27.800been on the cover Leo train on my own, my own podcast as much lately, but I was on for the
00:47:34.720first few months and I was like, watch out, this is going to be bad. We're going to have seamless
00:47:37.840garment more and more strengthened. I was, I mean, the mark of his pontificate in my view
00:47:44.960would have been, I mean, the only way it would have been good is if he tended to the death
00:47:52.140penalty issue and the other most important error of the Francis pontificate, which is Amoris
00:47:57.180Laetitia, because remember, Amoris Laetitia is promulgated in April of 2016. And it's sort of
00:48:08.660ambiguous, but rather clear which two sacraments he's talking about restoring to unrepentant
00:48:14.880adulterers in adulterous second unions. But September, five and a half months later,
00:48:20.600the Argentine bishop, this is, I think, the most important thing that took place
00:48:24.160in a bad way. The Argentine bishop said, you're talking about giving communion to,
00:48:29.640you know, unrepentant adulterers, and we want to do it. And he says, you have the only correct
00:48:34.680interpretation. And the same day he replies with the respuesta, he sticks it in the act
00:48:40.440Apostolic Assetis. And he calls it authentic magisterium. Yes, authentic magisterium. So
00:48:47.880that's troubling. Now, as for the state of the world, I did do a big show on this with
00:48:56.120Anthony Abate from Avoiding Babylon. The mystery of iniquity and the interpretation of the church
00:49:02.940during this, I think, most dark seculum obscurum. There's a seculum obscurum in the 900s,
00:49:08.640which lasted 68 years. That's roughly what we've got going on. This is darker though.
00:49:13.820There's an interpretive dilemma around every corner. And what I would say is
00:49:19.720what we're rescued by is Thomistic epistemology. So like if the Pope says that we have to believe
00:49:28.700in a circular that's all orthogonal or a square that's all circular, we can't even form the
00:49:37.040phantasms because of the something called the peripatetic principle we can't even form the
00:49:41.920phantasms for such a planar figure in our heads or you know that the trinity has four persons in
00:49:48.380it or something so you're not accountable to form a self-contradicting premise something that you
00:49:54.480know like a logical syllogism whose premises contradict one another you can't even form those
00:50:00.340syllogisms in your head. So there is no duty there. But aside from that, partly because of
00:50:07.420my view on patriarchy, if there's a clearly imprudent judgment that these bad men are going
00:50:17.160to give us, or these bad popes at the very least are going to issue, then yeah, imprudence is one
00:50:25.880of, if you want to look at it, the benefits of the job. So you go along with imprudences.
00:50:31.980You're not bound to go along with things like two and two is five or logical impossibilities.
00:50:38.800And the church has in dark times, not quite as dark as now, operated like this before. But
00:50:45.900generally speaking, I would just say, you know, something like the Benedict option,
00:50:51.020be the head of your own household, get to mass on Sunday, go to confession often,
00:50:55.160And the mystery of iniquity will be revealed at the end of time, won't it?
00:51:01.420I'm very hopeful that this period will come to a close.
00:51:11.160I have a great friend in Xavier Eral who wrote a book called Revelations, which goes through a lot of the Marian apparitions.
00:51:16.640To me, it's really hopeful because the suggestion that there would be only two worm-ridden popes in our years and that after that it would be better fills me with hope anyway.
00:51:28.500But Timothy Gordon, I want to thank you for joining us.
00:51:31.100And I would urge folks to go check out his direct site, TimothyJGordon.com.