The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 558. The Meaning Of： Snow White

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00:00:14.980 I'm going to try something somewhat new today. I'm going to read you the Grimm's Brothers

00:00:22.500 version of Snow White. I picked that because I think I have some interesting insights into its

00:00:31.700 meaning, but I also chose it because it's been the target of ideologically oriented rewriting,

00:00:43.040 most famously recently in the case of Disney, who produced what's essentially a very poor movie

00:00:50.820 that was also a commercial flop by carelessly restructuring a story that either the makers

00:01:03.260 of the film didn't understand or understood all too well and decided to mess with for

00:01:11.120 underground reasons of their own. I suspect a little of column A and a little of column B.

00:01:20.820 I'm going to concentrate a fair bit on the figure of the evil queen, not least because

00:01:26.620 there's no shortage of evil queen manifestation in the current social and political environment. 1.00

00:01:34.200 And I'm going to draw on a body of research that has been conducted primarily by primatologists,

00:01:46.200 scientists who study non-human primates, given that human beings are primates as well.

00:01:53.800 The field of inquiry is called fertility suppression, and it is the marked tendency of higher status

00:02:06.080 female primates to suppress the probability that subordinates in their group will successfully mate 1.00

00:02:18.320 and bring offspring into the world. I think that the evil queen, in no small part, is a reflection

00:02:28.520 of observations of fertility suppression. People started studying fertility suppression in primates

00:02:37.900 because of the observation that in many primate species, dominant females exhibit higher reproductive 0.80

00:02:47.860 success compared to their subordinate counterparts.

00:02:51.380 So, one thing you have to understand about social animals, and this is particularly true of primates

00:02:59.740 because they're hyper-social, social animals live in a tiered society, and there are marked

00:03:09.680 differences in the life and success of those who are uppermost in the social hierarchy compared

00:03:17.220 to those who are barely clinging to the bottom, let's say. And scientists who are interested in the

00:03:25.420 differential reproductive success of high-status females compared to low-status females started to 0.98

00:03:32.180 investigate the possibility that the higher status or dominant females were actively engaging in 1.00

00:03:39.220 strategies that undermined the ability of the subordinates to find a mate and to reproduce.

00:03:45.720 Why would they do that? Well, perhaps they do that psychologically speaking, you might say,

00:03:52.180 just for the sheer sadistic fun of it, but from a broader evolutionary perspective,

00:03:58.840 the purpose is to maximize the probability of their own reproductive success, their own success

00:04:05.220 of finding a mate and also leaving their genes to propagate into the succeeding generations.

00:04:12.480 How would they do that? The mechanism of fundamental interest for our purposes, given its psychological

00:04:22.400 significance, is that social stress, often imposed by dominant individuals, can elevate stress hormones,

00:04:30.660 cortisol, for example, in subordinates, disrupting their hormonal cycles and leading to delayed

00:04:36.640 ovulation or reduced fertility. Females use reputation-savaging and exclusion, gossip, innuendo, 1.00

00:04:47.200 and, well, and as I said, social isolation. And those are all ways of lowering comparative status. That's

00:04:55.440 what gossip will do, for example, in reputation-savaging, whereas exclusion is more directly and intensely

00:05:02.580 stressful. So here's some examples from non-human primates with regard to mechanisms of fertility

00:05:11.160 suppression. For example, in baboons, a particularly aggressive and vicious species, dominant females

00:05:17.740 may physically intimidate subordinates to maintain their reproductive advantage. In species such as

00:05:23.940 marmosets, dominant females actually emit pheromones that directly inhibit ovarian activity, 1.00

00:05:31.260 in subordinate females preventing them from cycling or conceiving. By monopolizing food, 1.00

00:05:37.920 mates, or safe nesting sites, dominant females limit subordinates' ability to sustain pregnancies 1.00

00:05:44.160 or raise offspring, as seen in some tamarind groups. The suppression is often temporary and context-dependent,

00:05:53.560 lifting if the subordinate's status improves or she leaves the group. The goal is clear,

00:05:59.120 to prioritize the dominant females' offspring by reducing competition for resources and care. 0.72

00:06:06.120 Okay, here's some potential examples among human beings. In certain human societies,

00:06:12.760 dominant females, often older women or those with higher social status, exert influence over the 1.00

00:06:18.480 reproductive choice of subordinates. Examples include control over marriage. In some cultures,

00:06:24.500 older women, e.g. mothers-in-law, dictate when and whom younger women marry, delaying or restricting 1.00

00:06:31.320 their reproductive opportunities. Dominant women may enforce norms that discourage subordinate 1.00

00:06:38.540 females from reproducing at certain times, such as stigmatizing early pregnancies or pressuring women

00:06:45.640 to prioritize education or work over family. This social exclusion parallels the stress-induced

00:06:53.180 suppression seen in primates, though it's mediated by culture rather than biology. In modern contexts,

00:07:01.460 dominant females in positions of power, such as corporate leaders or senior academics, may create 1.00

00:07:08.240 environments that indirectly suppress the fertility of subordinate women. So here's a thought. You know,

00:07:13.760 one of the things I've wondered about for years, how the radical progressive elite feminists can 1.00

00:07:22.460 simultaneously criticize capitalism, yet insist that there's no higher priority for young women

00:07:31.680 than to organize their lives around a career. Well, if you want an explanation, fertility suppression 1.00

00:07:39.360 by elites with regard to subordinate women foolish enough to listen to such advice certainly constitutes a 1.00

00:07:49.180 explanatory hypothesis, and it's a brutal one. Now, with that background firmly in mind, I'm going to read 0.81

00:07:56.920 you the original version of Snow White. So, a little background on the Brothers Grimm. Jacob and Wilhelm,

00:08:05.320 they lived, Jacob lived from 1785 to 1863 and Wilhelm from 1786 to 1859. They were German scholars

00:08:14.320 and linguists, renowned for their collection of fairy tales. Their most famous work, Children's and

00:08:20.880 Household Tales, was first published in 1812, and it included stories that everyone knows, such as

00:08:27.180 Cinderella, Snow White, and Hansel and Gretel. The collection was not a one-time effort. The brothers

00:08:34.280 revised and expanded it over the years, cementing its place as a cultural treasure. They aimed to

00:08:41.500 safeguard German folklore amid a growing interest in national identity. At a time when Germany was a

00:08:47.680 collection of disparate states, the brothers believed that traditional stories reflected the spirit of the

00:08:52.860 German people and preserved their ancient wisdom. As scholars, they saw fairy tales as a lens to explore

00:08:59.500 the evolution of language and narrative, contributing to their broader academic interests in

00:09:04.460 philology. They gathered stories from diverse sources, including oral tales told by local storytellers,

00:09:12.400 often women, and existing written folklore. Rather than simply recording the tales verbatim,

00:09:18.660 they edited and adapted them to suit their literary style and to appeal to a wider audience, including

00:09:24.340 children. Okay, so a few comments about the brothers Grimm. It's been a contention of mine for some

00:09:33.160 decades and a cornerstone of my work that our consciousness is structured in the same manner as

00:09:43.000 a story. In fact, I think you can make a very strong case, I believe an incontrovertible case, that

00:09:48.760 what a story is, is a verbal description of the framing of conscious experience. Now, what that implies

00:09:57.720 at a very deep level is that for diverse individuals to organize themselves into a culture, they have to

00:10:08.180 develop a mechanism such that their consciousness is framed in a similar manner so that they pursue

00:10:15.380 similar goals, they have two similar goals, they have similar values, and they experience similar

00:10:19.120 emotions. The only way to do that, as far as I can tell, is to provide a foundation of shared narrative.

00:10:29.660 And so the Grimm brothers were particularly perspicacious in their insistence that shared narratives

00:10:40.840 define a culture. A culture is a group of people who not only know but inhabit the same stories.

00:10:49.400 Now, it turns out that much of the Brothers Grimm work has provided a foundation for some of the unity

00:11:01.120 of our culture such as it is. Now, what would you expect folklore passed down

00:11:10.120 from generation to generation, often for periods of time that can exceed 10,000 years? What would

00:11:19.260 you expect such stories to concentrate on? Well, they have to be highly memorable, which means they

00:11:25.640 have to adapt themselves to the structure of human memory. They have to be compelling and interesting.

00:11:31.680 And all of that points to the likelihood that they're describing realities that are unchanging and that

00:11:39.860 are so necessary that their explication automatically grips interest and embeds itself in memory.

00:11:48.660 Okay, so with all that, we can turn to the fairy tale itself. Little Snow White.

00:11:55.500 Once upon a time in the middle of winter, when snowflakes were falling like feathers from the sky,

00:12:01.000 a beautiful queen was sitting and sewing at a window with a black ebony frame. 1.00

00:12:06.380 So why a beautiful queen? Well, the same evolutionary psychologists, evolutionary biologists have also

00:12:16.680 done intensive work, and I would refer you in particular to the work of David Buss, on outlining the

00:12:25.540 evidence that female beauty in particular, which has a pronounced sexual element, is highly associated

00:12:35.460 with markers of fertility. Youth, waist-to-hip ratio, symmetry, a feature, which is a very good indicator,

00:12:47.060 by the way, of underlying genetic integrity. Butterflies, which are quite stunningly beautiful,

00:12:54.760 can detect deviations from symmetry in a potential mate at less than one part in a million.

00:13:01.720 And much of the beauty of butterflies is actually a consequence of sexual selection.

00:13:06.240 I saw an amazing butterfly. I don't remember the species. With its wings closed, it looks exactly

00:13:12.180 like a leaf, which is a consequence of natural selection. And then with its wings open, it has

00:13:18.080 the beauty, the colorful beauty, and symmetrical patterning and shaping that's characteristic, more

00:13:24.660 characteristic of the typical butterfly.

00:13:26.320 What's the biological significance of beauty? Well, insofar as it's associated with symmetry,

00:13:34.460 for example, it is a marker, as I said, of biological integrity. If there are mishaps during

00:13:43.120 psychophysiological development, one way those mishaps make themselves manifest to perception is in

00:13:50.400 marked deviations from bodily symmetry. Many of the markers that we associate with female beauty and

00:13:58.440 that females compete to make manifest are markers of biological fertility, waist-to-hip ratio, which is 1.00

00:14:08.140 a stable marker for female attractiveness with the optimal ratio being 0.68 across cultures. And that's 0.73

00:14:15.660 independent, by the way, of body size. So you can have women who carry more body fat and women who 1.00

00:14:24.040 carry less body fat being equal in terms of their waist-to-hip ratio attractiveness as long as it

00:14:30.140 makes itself manifest at approximately 0.68. So the fact that the queen is beautiful, you see,

00:14:40.180 is directly associated with the issue of fertility and fertility suppression because the first

00:14:46.600 indication we have of her nature, the nature of her being, is that she's beautiful. And so the

00:14:55.220 simplest explanation for that is young and fertile. A beautiful queen was sitting and sewing at a window 1.00

00:15:06.680 with a black ebony frame as she was sewing and looking out the window at the snow. She pricked her finger

00:15:11.680 with the needle and three drops of blood fell on the snow. The red looked so beautiful on the white snow that

00:15:18.120 she thought to herself, if only I had a child as white as snow, as red as blood, and as black as the wood of the

00:15:25.980 window frame. Soon thereafter, she gave birth to a little daughter who was white as snow, as red as blood, and her hair

00:15:32.600 as black as ebony. That's why the child was called little snow white. Well, what are those, why are those

00:15:38.340 colors relevant? Well, black, white, and red are the three colors most likely to be given color names across

00:15:45.260 cultures. And so there are no more directly perceptible colors than black, white, and red. And then red is

00:15:55.300 associated, let's say, with the apple, as we'll see later in the story. But there are, like, reddening of

00:16:03.360 tissue is also associated with both youth and with sexual excitation. And so women, for example, put 0.97

00:16:11.480 lipstick on their lips and rouge their cheeks to mimic both youth and fecundity, but also to mimic 0.90

00:16:19.420 sexual excitation. The queen was the most beautiful woman in the entire land, and very proud about her 0.65

00:16:28.860 beauty.

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00:17:26.260 Pride, you know, is the cardinal sin, you might say. It's pride that is the fundamental character of

00:17:35.660 characteristic of Lucifer, the usurping spirit. You can think of the Luciferian spirit as the

00:17:45.020 individual or the proclivity of the individual to elevate themselves to the highest possible position.

00:17:53.900 I'll give you an example. When Eve is tempted by the serpent to eat the apple, which, or the fruit,

00:18:05.700 it's not described as an apple in the Genesis story, but it has become that by tradition, which is relevant

00:18:12.520 to this story. The serpent, who's camouflaged, by the way, like female aggression, tells Eve that if she eats

00:18:22.440 this particular fruit, which means if she consumes it and incorporates it and takes it into herself,

00:18:29.940 becomes it, you might say, that she'll become like God, knowing good and evil. What does that mean?

00:18:38.060 Establishing the moral order. And so Eve eats the fruit offered to her by the serpent so that she can

00:18:45.500 take the place of God can take the place of God and define the moral order. And that's partly why the serpent

00:18:52.720 in the Genesis story becomes associated, as the mythology develops, with Lucifer, the usurping intellect, who

00:19:01.580 attempts to take the place of the divine. That's all associated with the idea of pride. Pride is the vice that

00:19:10.620 says, what I want now, I in the most narrow possible way, or what my whims want now, should be superordinate

00:19:22.380 to all other concerns. The pride that the evil queen takes in her beauty is the taking to herself of a 1.00

00:19:32.920 talent that was given to her by providence, let's say, by taking that to herself as a virtue that confers 0.81

00:19:45.540 special privileges and benefits on her as an isolated individual. What would the alternative be?

00:19:52.160 She could be extraordinarily grateful for her beauty and self-effacing and kind and self-sacrificing.

00:20:03.220 That would make her the good queen rather than the evil queen. She also had a mirror, and every morning

00:20:09.260 she stepped in front of it and asked, mirror, mirror on the wall, who in this land is fairest of all?

00:20:15.040 The mirror would answer, you, my queen, are the fairest of all. Okay, well, what's a mirror? A mirror is a

00:20:20.500 place for self-reflection, but it's also a place of intense self-consciousness, right? When you look in

00:20:26.300 a mirror and you recognize yourself in the mirror, you are self-conscious. In fact, self-recognition in

00:20:33.500 a mirror is a marker used by biologists to determine the presence or absence of self-consciousness

00:20:39.940 in animals. So, to look in a mirror is to become self-conscious. Okay, so what's the problem with that?

00:20:47.440 Well, psychologists have known for decades that the experience of self-consciousness is so tightly

00:20:56.320 associated with negative emotion that they're statistically indistinguishable. So, when the

00:21:04.560 theorists who created the big five personality map, five-dimensional personality map, extroversion,

00:21:12.280 neuroticism, conscientiousness, agreeableness, and openness, which is a creativity dimension,

00:21:16.960 when they first laid out that map, they noticed that their statistical inquiries indicated that

00:21:23.920 being self-conscious was so tightly associated with trait neuroticism, which is the proclivity for

00:21:30.840 anxiety, pain, grief, shame, guilt, frustration, disappointment, and anger, among other negative

00:21:39.080 emotions. It was so tightly associated with negative emotion that it was statistically indistinguishable.

00:21:45.320 So, we should note that the queen's pride, in combination with her pronounced proclivity for 0.97

00:21:53.200 self-consciousness, is destined to make her miserable, and that the pathway from misery to 1.00

00:22:00.980 bitter, to bitterness, and from bitterness to sadistic, what would you say, sadistic revenge and envy,

00:22:09.540 that's a very short journey? So, mirror, mirror on the wall, who in this land is fairest of all?

00:22:17.420 The mirror would answer, you, my queen, are the fairest of all. So, she staked her identity on her

00:22:24.040 beauty. She staked her identity on her youth. She staked her identity on her competitiveness,

00:22:32.620 you might say, in the mating and reproduction market. You know, and that's, I suppose, to some

00:22:40.200 degree, that's developmentally appropriate for a very young woman whose primary, what, whose primary 0.99

00:22:49.360 orientation in the world could well be finding a partner and pursuing the reproductive pathway,

00:22:59.620 having children, worshipping that and developing pride in it, and then maintaining it past its due

00:23:08.700 date, and then using it to suppress fertility in others, especially your own children, that starts

00:23:15.440 to deviate into the pathological. Look, part of the reason that human beings have the lifespan they

00:23:22.520 have, which basically allows us to be grandparents, is that it's useful for young people who are raising

00:23:32.500 children to have their parents around to pass on some wisdom about how to manage this. But it's also

00:23:41.020 the case that it's inappropriate for grandmothers to compete with their daughters on the sexual 0.72

00:23:47.840 attractiveness front, if that's done in a manner that undermines and supplants the younger

00:23:56.740 woman. So that's all background for this story. You, my queen, are the fairest of all. And then she

00:24:05.600 knew for certain that there was nobody more beautiful in the entire world. However, little Snow White grew

00:24:10.800 up, and when she was seven years old, she was so beautiful that her beauty surpassed even that of the

00:24:16.020 queen. And when the queen asked her mirror, mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the fairest of them all,

00:24:22.080 the mirror answered, you, my queen, may have a beauty quite rare, but little Snow White is a thousand

00:24:28.800 times more fair. When the queen heard the mirror speak this way, she became pale with envy. And from

00:24:35.820 that hour onward, she hated Snow White. And when she looked at her and thought that little Snow White

00:24:40.880 was to blame, that she, the queen, was no longer the most beautiful woman in the world, her heart turned

00:24:45.780 against little Snow White. Okay, so what's the problem with that? Well, one of the things that

00:24:51.860 you see in pathological families is that the parents who've made a hash of their own life

00:24:59.520 become jealous of the unblemished possibilities and opportunities that lay themselves out in front of

00:25:08.640 their children. And instead of encouraging their development in the world, start to regard the fact that

00:25:15.360 they haven't been corrupted yet by laziness and spite, they start to regard that as a, they start to

00:25:23.280 regard the contrast between that childhood potentiality and their own wasted and pathological

00:25:30.540 lives as unbearable. And to reduce the contrast, instead of straightening the hell up so that they're

00:25:36.620 not embarrassed in front of their children, they discourage their children from moving forward

00:25:42.060 and encourage pathologies in them so that the competitive stress is lessened. And so that's

00:25:50.400 exactly what the evil queen is doing here. She's now jealous of her child instead of stepping back and 1.00

00:25:59.000 really taking second place, which is, you know, which is what a wise mother should do and would do if

00:26:08.920 she had her true interest in mind, but also the interests of her children. You know, one of the

00:26:16.260 tropes in teenage movies is the mom who tries too hard to be cool, let's say, to pretend that she's still 1.00

00:26:25.460 young, to even to partake in the social hierarchy structuring of her teenage daughters, let's say, 1.00

00:26:33.560 instead of stepping back and letting the young women have their moment, just as she had the

00:26:40.640 opportunity, just as the mother had the opportunity to have her moment. That's part of the sacrificial

00:26:47.380 nature of motherhood when it's undertaken appropriately, right? Because the child becomes the

00:26:55.780 star of the show, let's say, rather than the mother. And the mother isn't trying to become

00:27:01.720 the star through the child either. Her heart turned against little Snow White, right? What did Nietzsche

00:27:08.740 say? We're best punished for our virtues. If you really want to hurt your child, then you find out

00:27:15.260 what's good about them that's embarrassing you, by contrast, and then you hurt them for the existence

00:27:21.100 of that good. That'll make you an evil queen. And so what is she like? Well, this is a very harsh part

00:27:27.920 of the story, you see. And this is the sort of thing that modern people find upsetting and perhaps

00:27:34.340 presume shouldn't be shared with children. But the vicious turn this story takes now is an indication

00:27:42.280 of just how absolutely devouring and pathological this evil queen jealousy in relationship to younger 1.00

00:27:51.360 women truly is. So this is what the mother of Snow White does to pursue her envy and pride, her usurping 1.00

00:28:03.260 capability. Her jealousy kept upsetting her. And so she summoned her huntsman and said,

00:28:13.240 take this child out into the forest. So out into the dark unknown to a spot far from her, then stab her to 0.96

00:28:23.340 death. That's bad enough, I would say already, the mother who's going to kill her own child, have her 1.00

00:28:31.720 henchmen kill her own child. But that's not as bad as it gets. And it's not sufficiently symbolically

00:28:41.360 terrible. Because the, it's like a vampire, right? A vampire is a force of death that feeds on life to keep

00:28:53.600 itself going when really it's already dead. The mother, the queen in this story doesn't only kill her 0.97

00:29:01.020 daughter, she devours her. She attempts to incorporate her own vitality into herself. She's truly the devouring

00:29:08.900 mother, truly the devouring mother. And that's a symbolic representation of maternality gone most 1.00

00:29:18.700 pathologically wrong in the opposite direction. I mean, women, mothers literally nourish their children 1.00

00:29:26.960 with their own bodies. Breastfeeding mothers can, their bodies can detect if their children lack calcium, 0.99

00:29:37.460 if their infants lack calcium when they're breastfeeding, through receptors in the nipple.

00:29:43.020 And if the child is lacking calcium, the mother will decalcify her own bones, take calcium out of 0.99

00:29:50.060 her own bones to increase the proportion of calcium in the milk to feed to her child. And so the proper 0.98

00:29:59.280 maternal orientation towards infants in particular, but also children, is voluntary self-sacrifice,

00:30:06.400 right? To give, the mother gives herself up, gives herself over to the child. This is a complete 0.69

00:30:14.540 inversion of that, where the mother becomes the devouring agent and the child is nourishment for

00:30:20.180 the pathologies of the mother. You see plenty of that, by the way, in the modern world with

00:30:25.180 mothers, for example, who utilize their demented identity politics with regards to their children. 0.97

00:30:35.100 My boy is really a girl. My girl is really a boy. There's some fertility suppression. And use the 0.83

00:30:41.800 notoriety generated by that pathologization of the child to elevate their social status among their 0.99

00:30:49.000 idiot friends at the cost of the child's happiness, physiology, and future reproductive success. 0.97

00:30:56.560 So no matter how brutal this story becomes, and that's what happens next, it pales in comparison 1.00

00:31:03.120 to the truth of the pathology of the devouring mother. Take the child out into the forest to a

00:31:10.480 spot far from here. Then stab her to death and bring me back her lungs and liver as proof of your deed. 1.00

00:31:17.720 Lungs, that's inspiration. That's respiration. That's the resting place of the spirit. Liver? Well, 1.00

00:31:24.120 think of the word live. The liver is the part of the body, the vital organ that can regenerate itself

00:31:30.360 and is regarded symbolically as the seat of vitality. So it's spirit and vitality that the

00:31:37.480 evil queen devours in consequence of her jealousy, her inappropriate jealousy of the benefits of Snow 1.00

00:31:45.400 White's youth. After that, I'll cook them with salt and eat them. Now you think, do you tell your 1.00

00:31:51.460 children that story? And that's a hard question because one thing you want to do if you have

00:31:59.060 children is protect them from the evil queen. The huntsman took little Snow White and led her out

00:32:05.780 into the forest, but when he drew his hunting knife and was about to stab her, she began to weep

00:32:10.640 and pleaded so much to let her live and promised never to return but to run deeper into the forest.

00:32:17.340 The huntsman was moved to pity also because she was so beautiful. Anyway, he thought the wild beasts

00:32:23.660 in the forest would soon devour her. I'm glad that I won't have to kill her, he thought. Just then a 0.69

00:32:30.120 young boar came dashing by and the huntsman stabbed it to death. He took out the lungs and liver and

00:32:36.520 brought them to the queen as proof that the child was dead. Then she boiled them in salt, ate them,

00:32:41.780 and thought she had eaten little Snow White's lungs and liver. So that's pretty damn rough.

00:32:48.720 But now you understand its significance. Oh, this reminds me, you know, of the Disney version

00:32:57.780 of Sleeping Beauty. Remember the evil queen in Sleeping Beauty, Maleficent, entraps the prince

00:33:06.200 in a castle. And her goal is to keep him locked up until he's so old that he can't find a mate and

00:33:16.540 reproduce, right? And when he dares to challenge her, she turns into the dragon that devours everything, 0.73

00:33:24.480 right? Into the full bloody fury of nature itself in all its predatory catastrophe. And he defeats her

00:33:34.480 with a cross on his shield and the sword of truth and advances through her, through the thorns that

00:33:43.680 she's placed around Sleeping Beauty so that he can find the princess. And that's the story of the

00:33:50.360 young man's heroic rejection of the destruction of his life possibility and youth by the evil queen.

00:34:04.480 Meanwhile, little Snow White was so all alone in the huge forest that she became afraid and began to

00:34:11.200 run and run over sharp stones and through thorn bushes. That's a typical fairy tale motif. And the

00:34:17.700 emphasis of the story here actually shifts to Snow White because it starts to become a developmental

00:34:23.100 story rather than a story about the evil queen. So Snow White has been moved from pathological order

00:34:34.280 and that's the domain ruled by the evil queen. Out into the unknown. Those two things are conflated,

00:34:41.160 you might say, because whenever you are in a situation where you are encountering the unknown,

00:34:49.980 for example, when you're lost in a forest, when you're away from everything that brings you security

00:34:56.280 and familiarity, you are in the unknown in unexplored territory. But that unexplored territory is going

00:35:03.440 to be populated by the monsters of your imagination. And so any journey into the unknown is simultaneously

00:35:11.600 a journey into the unconscious. And so what's happening here is that Snow White has left security

00:35:19.220 and is now encountering the unknown. And that's part of the developmental trajectory. Everything we learn is

00:35:30.780 on the border of order and chaos. Everything we learn is a step into the unknown. And so this is a radical

00:35:37.920 initiation for Snow White. She ran the entire day. Finally, as the sun was about to set, she came upon a little

00:35:44.940 cottage that belonged to seven dwarfs. Now, this is very interesting. So Snow White has gone, you could

00:35:52.220 say, into the unknown or into the unconscious and quite deeply because it takes her a whole day to get

00:35:56.520 there. And what does she discover? So this is in her own mind, you might say. This is in the, this is part

00:36:02.840 of the landscape of possibility that presents itself to any young woman who is being persecuted by the

00:36:12.100 forces of the evil queen, down deep into the unknown, down deep into the unconscious. Go far enough, you find

00:36:19.300 the home of the dwarfs. Okay, so, so what are the dwarfs here? The dwarfs are ordinary, faceless, hardworking 0.99

00:36:28.840 men. Now, in the modern Snow White story, this last travesty that Disney so catastrophically produced,

00:36:35.780 the dwarfs are basically a mess. And that's part of the pathology of the modern world, 1.00

00:36:42.660 which assumes that typical, faceless, ordinary, hardworking men are part of the pathological

00:36:51.620 patriarchy and incapable of taking care of themselves. That's not the case in the Grimm Brothers 1.00

00:36:58.360 story. The dwarfs have a perfectly functional house deep in the woods, and they're capable of taking care of

00:37:08.620 themselves. In fact, you might think about the dwarfs as exactly that. The dwarfs are seven ordinary, hardworking

00:37:17.060 men who've made a place in the forest of the unknown that's safe and secure and functional. And so you could think

00:37:24.800 about the dwarfs as indicators, as representatives of the ordinary, functional patriarchy. Now, what's 0.79

00:37:34.060 particularly interesting about that, you see, is that Snow White finds respite from the evil queen in the

00:37:42.120 dwelling place of the ordinary man. So what does that mean? Well, it means that one of the things that

00:37:49.620 ordinary men offer young women is protection from the pathology of fertility suppression by toxic

00:37:59.180 older women. And given the absolute widespread pervasiveness of elite-induced fertility suppression 1.00

00:38:08.220 in our culture, the notion that an alliance between young women and ordinary men is the protection against

00:38:17.040 that fertility and youth-destroying pathology is a lesson well worth learning, and certainly not the

00:38:23.860 lesson that was put forward in the most recent version of the Snow White narrative. So she ran the

00:38:32.000 entire day. Finally, as the sun was about to set, she came upon a little cottage that belonged to seven

00:38:36.860 dwarfs. Okay, so that happens at night too, so that's deeper into the unconscious. However, they were not at

00:38:42.040 home, but had gone to the mines. See, as miners, you see, they descend into the depths themselves,

00:38:49.580 and they find through their labor, treasure. And so the dwarves, you see this in mythological

00:38:57.840 representations of dwarves, like in the Lord of the Rings, the dwarves are often heroes. They're tough.

00:39:02.540 They're tough little guys, and they go into the darkest recesses of the bowels of the earth to find

00:39:09.280 the glittering treasure. And so it's very appropriate to notice that these dwarves are 0.98

00:39:15.260 good men. They're still dwarves, however. They were not at home, but had gone to the mines. Okay, 1.00

00:39:20.580 so they're also diligent, conscientious, and hardworking. And that's reinforced by the next

00:39:25.780 line. When little Snow White entered, she found everything tiny, but dainty and neat. Okay, so this is a

00:39:33.260 well-tended place, right? So these are lone men who are capable of taking care of themselves and

00:39:40.760 establishing habitable order, habitable patriarchal order, cooperative, conscientious, oriented towards

00:39:48.740 the treasure, brave and resolute. There was a little table with a white tablecloth and seven

00:39:54.240 little plates with seven tiny spoons, seven tiny knives and tiny forks, and seven tiny cups. In a row

00:39:59.800 against the wall stood seven little beds, recently covered with sheets. So there, beds are made too.

00:40:06.740 Take note, all of you who have unmade beds and still are struggling even to be dwarves. 1.00

00:40:13.460 Since she was so hungry and thirsty, so now she gets to eat in this place of masculine provision.

00:40:20.120 Snow White ate some vegetables and bread from each of the little plates and had a drop of wine to drink

00:40:24.540 out of each of the tiny cups. And since she was so tired, she wanted to lay down and sleep.

00:40:28.780 So she began trying out the beds, but none of them suited her until she found that the seventh one

00:40:34.020 was just right. So she lay down in it and fell asleep. When it turned night, the seven dwarves 1.00

00:40:40.620 returned home from their work and lit their seven little candles. Then they saw that someone had been

00:40:45.700 in their house. The first dwarf said, who's been sitting in my chair? Who's eaten off my plate? 0.99

00:40:52.160 said the second. Who's eaten some of my bread? said the third. My vegetables? said the fourth.

00:40:58.740 Who's been using my little fork? said the fifth. Who's been cutting with my little knife? said the

00:41:04.660 sixth. Who's had something to drink from my little cup? said the seventh. Then the first dwarf looked 0.97

00:41:11.540 around and said, who's been sleeping in my bed? The second cried out, someone's been sleeping in my bed.

00:41:16.680 And he was followed by each of them. Until the seventh dwarf looked at his bed and saw little 0.82

00:41:21.940 snow white lying there asleep. The others came running over to him and they were so astounded

00:41:26.660 that they screamed and fetched their seven little candles to observe little snow white. Oh my lord,

00:41:33.600 they explained, how beautiful she is. They took great delight in her. Okay, well, you know, that's

00:41:39.560 actually an indication that these are pretty decent little dwarves too. Because if they were as 0.99

00:41:44.660 pathological as the little queen, they came across an attractive juvenile female, God only knows what 0.98

00:41:52.580 hell could break loose, as we've seen repeatedly in places like the UK, for example. So the dwarves are 1.00

00:42:01.920 protective of snow white and her beauty and serve a proper paternal and partnership function.

00:42:14.460 They took great delight in her, but didn't wake her up. They let her sleep in the bed. That's very

00:42:19.860 generous of them. They're very hospitable, which also indicates their essential morality. Well, the

00:42:24.720 seventh dwarf spent an hour in each one of his companions' bed until the night had passed. When she 0.89

00:42:29.180 awoke, they asked her who she was and how she had managed to come to their cottage. Then she told them

00:42:34.740 how her mother had wanted to have her killed, how the huntsman had spared her life, and how she had run

00:42:39.560 all day until she had eventually arrived at the cottage. Then the dwarves took pity on her and 0.89

00:42:45.080 said, if you'll keep house for us, cook, sew, make the beds, wash and knit, and if you'll keep everything

00:42:51.040 neat and orderly, you can stay with us and we'll provide you with everything you need. When we come

00:42:56.420 home in the evening, dinner must be ready. During the day, we're in the mines and dig for gold. You'll be

00:43:01.820 alone. We'll have to watch out for the queen and not let anyone enter the cottage. Okay, so what's

00:43:07.540 the deal here? Well, Snow White has run from the destructive force of her evil mother and the most

00:43:18.420 pathological element of nature and plunged deep into the unknown where she found the dwarves who are 1.00

00:43:25.960 emblematic of the stable patriarchy, the stable, ordinary, productive patriarchy. Now, the deal for

00:43:33.400 her is that she has to serve the dwarves and they'll protect her from the evil queen. So that's a pretty 0.90

00:43:41.800 good deal given that the evil queen wants to eat her lungs and her liver, so is posing a mortal threat. 1.00

00:43:48.120 And it's indicative of the notion that prior to finding a prince, you might say, and finding

00:43:57.700 permanent protection from the evil queen in the form of a stable, long-term, desirable partnership,

00:44:05.760 a marriage, the young woman threatened by the evil queen, which is the eternal archetypal situation of

00:44:14.400 isolated young women, has to make a pact to serve ordinary masculinity, right? To partner with ordinary 1.00

00:44:22.140 masculinity, to have respect for it, to understand its productive function, and to know that it's

00:44:28.660 ordinary masculinity, you might say, that stops female pathology from making itself manifest as the 1.00

00:44:37.980 ultimately destructive force it can all too easily become, right? So what's the moral of the story as

00:44:45.100 we proceed? If you want to find a prince and escape from the evil queen, you have to serve the dwarves 1.00

00:44:51.340 with some degree of gratitude and conscientious dedication, right? With some real emphasis on

00:45:02.120 gratitude. And why? Well, better the dwarves than the evil queen, right? Which is exactly the opposite

00:45:09.160 of the feminist narrative, which is that there are only power mad, pathological men, and all that's 0.79

00:45:18.740 feminine is benevolent. It's like, yeah, right, God. In the meantime, the queen believed that she was once 1.00

00:45:26.980 again, the most beautiful woman in the land, and stepped before her mirror and asked, mirror, mirror 0.95

00:45:32.340 on the wall, who in this land is fairest of all? The mirror answered, you, my queen, have a beauty 0.77

00:45:38.060 quite rare, but beyond the seven mountains, this I must tell. Little Snow White is living quite well.

00:45:44.300 Indeed, she's still a thousand times more fair. Hmm. So what does this mean for the poor queen? Well,

00:45:51.020 you know, at one level of analysis, the queen is battling against her own daughter, but at a 0.76

00:45:57.060 different level of analysis, the aging woman is battling against youth itself. And even if she does 1.00

00:46:05.180 manage to destroy her own child so happily, sadistically, and delightfully, with envy and spite,

00:46:15.900 making themselves manifest as primary motivations aligned with pride, let's say, even if she manages

00:46:24.240 that, she's not going to win the ultimate battle because age is always supplanted by youth. No, it's 1.00

00:46:36.080 reproduction is a young woman's game. And so it's less intense for men, although men are more fertile when 0.87

00:46:43.160 they're younger. But for women, youth and reproduction are intensely associated. And the battle of the

00:46:51.580 aging woman against her own daughter is a microcosm of the battle of age against youth. And on the 0.82

00:46:58.980 fertility front, let's say the sexual attractiveness front, as well, to a large degree, at least the

00:47:06.260 natural sexual attractiveness front, the evil queen is not going to be able to stamp out youth itself. 1.00

00:47:16.080 Although, you know, in cultures where the old women cover all the young women up so that you can't even 1.00

00:47:23.720 see their eyes, the vicious battle of envious age in women against the beauty and attractiveness of

00:47:34.260 young women has been taken to a staggering extreme, I suppose most thoroughly made manifest in the 1.00

00:47:41.980 absolutely brutal practice of female genital mutilation, which is also, by the way, often 0.82

00:47:48.500 undertaken by grandmothers. When the queen heard this, her mirror's objection, she was horrified, for she saw 0.92

00:47:56.160 that she had been deceived and that the huntsman had not killed little Snow White. Since nobody but the

00:48:01.820 seven dwarfs lived in the Seven Mountains region, the queen immediately knew that little Snow White 1.00

00:48:06.980 was dwelling with them and began once again plotting ways to kill her. As long as the mirror refused to

00:48:14.660 say that she was the most beautiful woman in the land, she would remain upset. Since she couldn't be

00:48:20.760 absolutely certain and didn't trust anyone, she disguised herself as an old peddler woman, painted her face 0.91

00:48:27.400 so that nobody could recognize her and went to the cottage of the seven dwarfs, where she knocked at 1.00

00:48:32.120 the door and cried out, open up, open up, I'm the old peddler woman, I've got pretty wares for sale. 1.00

00:48:38.000 Little Snow White looked out the window, what do you have for sale? Stay laces, dear child, that's a 0.98

00:48:45.440 corset, it's a corset. The old woman replied and took out a lace woven from yellow, red and blue silk, 0.98

00:48:53.920 do you want it? Well, yes, said little Snow White. If I remember correctly, women spend 80% of the 0.99

00:49:01.440 consumer dollar. It's a very interesting statistic. So men might have an advantage on the earning side,

00:49:08.580 slight, it's about 8%, something like that. And that has virtually nothing to do with prejudice against

00:49:16.820 women, by the way, if the statistics are calculated properly. But women have a marked advantage on the 1.00

00:49:23.600 spending side, and it's a real toss-up, who has more power, the people who make the money or the

00:49:29.720 people who spend it? In any case, Snow White is interested in shopping, and so the old peddler woman 0.99

00:49:36.680 has some wares for her. Now, she lets her inside. Well, yes, do you want it? Well, yes, said little

00:49:45.980 Snow White thought, I can certainly let her. This good old woman inside, she's honest enough. 0.80

00:49:51.600 What does she think? She just wants to make me beautiful. She just wants to do something for me. 0.78

00:49:56.960 Okay, so little Snow White unbolted the door and bought the lace. My goodness, you're so sloppily 1.00

00:50:03.080 laced up, said the old woman. Come on, I'll lace you up properly for once. Little Snow White stood in 1.00

00:50:08.480 front of the old woman, who took the lace and tied it around little Snow White so tightly that she lost 1.00

00:50:13.740 her breath and fell down as if dead. Then the queen was satisfied and left. Well, let's think about a

00:50:19.680 corset for a minute. And so, you know, the feminist scuttlebutt is that the Victorian proclivity to 1.00

00:50:29.000 use corsets was a imposition of the masculine superstructure. But women compete with one another 1.00

00:50:38.360 to make manifest their signs of beauty and fertility and don't need men to intercede to make that 1.00

00:50:48.960 happen. Now, it was the case that in Victorian England, corset use could become so extreme that

00:50:57.100 it interfered with breathing and sometimes even caused death. So what does that point to at a deeper

00:51:02.540 level? The evil queen, it's so awful, the evil queen entices Snow White to maximize her attractiveness 1.00

00:51:16.720 in a manner that compromises not only her health but her life. And that's, if you can't see that

00:51:25.380 playing out in our society at the moment, then you're not paying attention. Some of you might be

00:51:32.860 familiar with Bonnie Blue, the prostitute in the UK who's slept with, had sex with 100 men in one night 0.98

00:51:47.820 and is now attempting a thousand, apparently. Her mother is her business manager. And if you think 0.97

00:51:57.540 that's all right, and you're female, well, then you're definitely the evil queen. And if you think 1.00

00:52:03.120 that's all right and you're male, you're not even a dwarf. And so you can give that some consideration.

00:52:10.820 Little Snow White stood in front of the old woman who took the lace and tied it around. Little Snow White 0.97

00:52:15.820 so tightly that she lost her breath and fell down as if dead. Then the queen was satisfied and left. 1.00

00:52:23.040 So that's a very sophisticated method of fertility suppression. Entice young women into advertising 1.00

00:52:31.140 themselves sexually so brutally and in such an all-consuming manner that it interferes with spirit,

00:52:39.680 that's breath, that's breath, and life itself. Jesus. Brutal. Not long after nightfall, the dwarves 1.00

00:52:46.840 came home. And when they saw their dear Snow White lying on the ground, they were horrified for she seemed

00:52:52.120 to be dead. They lifted her up. And when they saw that she was laced too tightly, they cut the stay

00:52:59.460 lace in two. So it's the men, it's the dwarves that rescued Snow White from the pathologization

00:53:07.120 of her own sexuality. Right? It's not the bloody dwarves who put her in the corset and make it 1.00

00:53:14.400 impossible for her to breathe. It's her own mother, her own evil mother. Right? At once, she began to 0.99

00:53:21.660 breathe a little and after a while she had fully revived. So the dwarves, with their essential,

00:53:28.620 ordinary, conscientious, masculine sensibility, are able to protect Snow White against the 0.61

00:53:37.400 pathologization of her own sexual attractiveness at the hands of the evil queen. Right? So the dwarves 0.99

00:53:43.880 can manage that. That was nobody else but the queen, they said. Pay attention to the dwarves. It's not us. 0.54

00:53:50.720 It's your evil mother. She wanted to take your life. Be careful. And don't let anyone else enter 1.00

00:53:58.680 the cottage. Now the queen asked her mirror. Mirror, mirror on the wall. Who in this land is

00:54:04.440 fairest of all? The mirror answered. You, my queen, may have a beauty. Quite rare, but little Snow White's

00:54:11.180 alive. This I must tell. She's with the dwarves and doing quite well. Indeed, she's still a thousand times

00:54:18.460 more fair. The queen was so horrified that all her blood rushed to her heart when she realized that

00:54:24.920 little Snow White was alive once again. So she began thinking day and night how she could put an end

00:54:30.780 to little Snow White. Finally, she made a poisoned comb, disguised herself in a completely different 0.95

00:54:37.600 shape, and went off to the dwarves' cottage once again. When she knocked on the door, however,

00:54:42.360 little Snow White called out, I'm not allowed to let anyone enter. The queen then took out the comb.

00:54:49.200 So now Snow White, you see, Snow White gets enticed in some ways by her own vanity. Right? Now the

00:54:55.840 dwarves have told her, be careful who you let in. Right? Remember in the story of Cain and Abel,

00:55:02.480 that when Cain becomes possessed by envy, in consequence of the failure of his own second-rate

00:55:10.400 sacrifices, he invites the spirit of murderous sin in to possess him as a voluntary response to his own

00:55:22.000 pathological inadequacy. Pathological and voluntary inadequacy. He has to invite the pathological agent in,

00:55:31.200 and that's what Snow White does, right? She does that because she wants first the lace stay and then 1.00

00:55:38.040 the comb. And so she's enticed by the opportunity to make the most of her own beauty, which is an

00:55:47.820 understandable motivation. She's enticed by that motivation to hearken to the voice of the evil and

00:55:54.800 destructive queen. So that's a morality tale about the danger of vanity. Right? When little Snow White

00:56:04.040 saw it shine, the comb, so it's a shiny comb, right? It's glittery, it's numinous in Rudolf Otto's

00:56:10.540 phrase. It attracts her attention. And so I suppose that's why the queen brought the comb. When little Snow

00:56:17.480 White saw it shine, Snow White saw it shine, so it's a phenomenon. Phenomenon, that's a word from the Greek

00:56:25.420 root, phenisthai. Phenisthai means to shine forth. Something that shines attracts your attention, right? It's, and

00:56:34.240 things attract your attention because they, they what? They speak to a conscious or unconscious

00:56:41.860 motivational force. So Snow White would like to make use of her beauty. And fair enough, but there's 1.00

00:56:49.460 great danger in making use of your beauty. Come, said the peddler woman. When she, when little Snow

00:56:57.320 White saw it shine and that the woman was someone entirely different from the one she had previously

00:57:01.760 met, yeah, she was entirely different on the surface. So there's different manifestations of the evil

00:57:07.720 queen pathology, all selling something hypothetically different, but they're all 1.00

00:57:12.920 avatars of the same underlying pathological fertility suppressing, devouring dragon force.

00:57:25.060 When she saw that the woman was someone entirely different from the one she had previously met,

00:57:29.280 she opened the door and bought the comb. Come, said the peddler woman. I'll also comb your hair. 1.00

00:57:34.060 How she's so thoughtful and helpful, right? So you see, that's part of that camouflaged pathology.

00:57:41.400 The little peddler, the, the, the peddler woman to begin with, who has the lace stays offers to 1.00

00:57:47.560 lace Snow White up properly and then to comb her hair. And so she's disguising her murderously destructive, 1.00

00:57:58.280 reproductive, reproductive, savaging pathology in a show of maternal compassion. Brutal, brutal.

00:58:08.040 But no sooner did the old woman stick the comb in little Snow White's hair than the maiden fell down 1.00

00:58:13.440 and was dead. Now you'll remain lying there, the queen said, and her heart had become lighter

00:58:19.400 as she returned home. However, the dwarves came just in the nick of time. When they saw what had happened,

00:58:26.060 they pulled the poison comb out of little Snow White's hair and she opened her eyes and was alive again.

00:58:31.840 Okay, so that's the second time this is insisted upon in this fairy tale, right? The dwarves are not

00:58:39.040 the masculine patriarchal force of the ordinary, of the ordinary society of men who entice young women

00:58:49.820 to become pathologized in pursuit of beauty. In fact, they're the force that protects themselves against the intense

00:58:57.960 female competition that tilts that struggling for supremacy in beauty and attractiveness in a spirit-destroying 1.00

00:59:09.760 and murderous direction. So that's why it's so important for Snow White to learn to serve the dwarves, 0.99

00:59:16.260 to be grateful for them, and to be able to establish a relationship of mutuality with ordinary masculinity,

00:59:27.360 right? And this is as a precursor to meeting the prince, right? And so you might say, well,

00:59:33.640 a woman who's indefinitely proud, particularly of her own attractiveness, might have nothing but 0.68

00:59:40.000 contempt for the dwarves. But what this story indicates is that she'll be vulnerable beyond belief

00:59:50.120 to the machinations of the evil queen in consequence, and without that ability to

00:59:55.660 be grateful to ordinary masculinity, the prince will never make himself, the prince will never make

01:00:05.060 his appearance. And so why would the best of men make an appearance if, in a woman's life, if the woman

01:00:15.580 was pathologically incapable of having any respect whatsoever or offering any service in return for

01:00:24.460 protection to masculinity as such? That's something worth thinking about in a time when gratitude for

01:00:33.100 the benevolent element of the patriarchy is slowly, sorely lacking. The dwarves came just in the nick of 0.99

01:00:41.080 time. When they saw what had happened, they pulled the poison comb out of little Snow White's hair,

01:00:45.160 and she was alive again. She promised the dwarves that she would certainly not let anyone inside again.

01:00:52.140 Okay, so, you know, they tell Snow White a number of times, but she's really too immature and too easily 1.00

01:00:59.580 tempted, both of those, to protect herself against a force as pathological as the evil queen. And so

01:01:07.600 that's worth thinking about too. It's too much to ask a truly young woman to make the wisdom manifest 1.00

01:01:18.140 that would be necessary for her to see through the disguises of the evil queen and her proclivity to 1.00

01:01:27.640 use temptation in service of murderous pathology. It's too much to ask that a young woman will be wise 1.00

01:01:35.220 enough on her own to protect herself from the poison gifts of the evil queen. Right, she needs the

01:01:44.300 intermediary of the dwarves. And so, well, that would be, for the typical young woman, that would be

01:01:51.320 the protective phalanx of her brothers and her father. Now the queen stepped in front of her mirror once more and 0.89

01:01:59.500 asked, Mirror, mirror on the wall, who in this land is fairest of all? The mirror answered, You, my queen, may have a

01:02:07.520 beauty quite rare, but little Snow White's alive. This I must tell. She's with the dwarves and doing quite well.

01:02:13.560 Indeed, she's still a thousand times more fair. When the queen heard this once again, she trembled and shook with

01:02:21.120 rage. Little Snow White shall die, she exclaimed, even if it costs me my own life. Yeah, well, that's an enemy

01:02:29.460 that's pretty hard to stand up against, you know, someone who will light themselves on fire just to

01:02:36.240 singe you. And if you don't think people are capable of that kind of hatred at all cost, then you don't

01:02:43.200 know much about human psychopathology. You know, those people who shoot up schools and that commit

01:02:50.240 suicide when they could just as easily do things in the reverse order and save everyone a lot of trouble.

01:02:57.160 It's like they're capping off of their murderous rage with their own self-destruction is actually part of

01:03:04.060 the art. They know perfectly well that even if their motivation is suicidal, that the biggest

01:03:11.060 manifestation of resentment and spite with regards to the structure of reality and their fellow man and

01:03:19.080 their own spirit and God himself is to create the maximum amount of mayhem possible in the most

01:03:24.960 viciously sadistic way and to cap that off with a demonstration that even their own life is worth

01:03:30.820 nothing, especially in relationship to their desire for revenge and their capacity for spite.

01:03:41.520 Then she went into a secret chamber where no one was allowed to enter. So this is like the heart of her

01:03:47.600 poison, right? So the bodice was one thing, the stays, the corset, the poison comb was another.

01:03:55.620 This gets to the heart of the matter. She goes to where the most genuine evil is made manifest.

01:04:03.100 Once inside, she made a deadly poisonous apple. Well, why an apple? Well, an apple is the fruit of the tree 0.94

01:04:10.500 of the knowledge of good and evil, right? The apple is the thing that you incorporate that changes you.

01:04:16.460 The apple is information. The apple is education. The apple is ideology. The apple is an idea rather

01:04:24.360 than an artifact, right? That's what it's symbolic of. That's what it represents. And so the first

01:04:31.960 kinds of poison or death that the pathological evil queen attempts to administer to Snow White are 0.90

01:04:40.140 pretty straightforward and basic, right? Their appeals to her own vanity in the form of pathologization of

01:04:48.280 her attractiveness. But this is a deeper form of poison, right? It's a poison that strikes right to 0.94

01:04:55.020 the soul. Remember, it's the consuming of the apple that is the original sin that knocks Adam and Eve

01:05:01.440 out of paradise. The poisoned apple is, what is it? It's pathological knowledge, right? I think it's

01:05:08.940 exactly the same as the symbolic representation of the kind of evil doctrine that young women are fed

01:05:16.320 by jealous, miserable, single, bitter, envious, resentful old women to knock them out of the 1.00

01:05:24.800 mating game, partly to reduce competition and partly just out of self-destructive spite. 0.97

01:05:32.360 A deadly poisonous apple. On the outside, it looked beautiful with red cheeks, right? Red cheeks. So

01:05:40.400 the apple is red cheeks. It's emblematic of health itself, of flourishing health, right? If you wanted

01:05:47.160 to be a healthy young woman, this is obviously the apple that you would eat. And that's exactly what

01:05:52.900 young women are taught in today's universities, right? To pursue that path of career that 1.00

01:05:59.480 now has left the prioritization of self-interest. It's not precisely career. The prioritization of

01:06:07.580 narrow self-interest that compromises their youth and leaves 50% of women in the West childless at the

01:06:16.040 age of 30, with the probability that 90% of them will regret that as the years pass by.

01:06:23.320 Apple, beautiful with red cheeks. Anyone who saw it would be enticed to take a bite. Well,

01:06:28.760 so this is propaganda in its most attractive form. It's like, well, if this is what you were offered,

01:06:34.900 of course you'd take it. It sounds like you could have it all. Young women, you can have it all.

01:06:41.180 Yeah, well, the question is, who's offering that particular apple? And what exactly is their

01:06:46.900 motivation? We're just looking out for our younger sisters. It's like, yeah, maybe you're looking out

01:06:52.080 for them. And maybe you're a manifestation of the evil queen whose fundamental motivation is to devour 0.97

01:06:59.300 their liver and lungs. Yeah, well, thereafter she disguised herself as a peasant woman, a lowly woman, 1.00

01:07:09.440 not a haughty beauty. Went to the dwarf's cottage and knocked on the door. Little Snow White looked and 0.99

01:07:14.900 said, I'm not allowed to have anyone inside. The seven dwarfs have strictly forbidden me. Well, 1.00

01:07:20.220 if you don't want to let me in, I can't force you, answered the delightful peasant woman. Right,

01:07:26.260 emblematic of the oppressed working class. I'll surely get rid of my apples in time. I have something 1.00

01:07:32.220 that everyone wants, obviously, but let me give you one to test another manifestation of her evil

01:07:40.000 making itself camouflaged in the guise of care and compassion. No, said little Snow White, I'm not

01:07:47.600 allowed to take anything. The dwarfs won't let me. Yeah, well, you see, that's the sensible manifestation 1.00

01:07:52.980 of the ordinary productive patriarchal impulse inside her protecting herself from the depredations of

01:08:00.700 predatory competitive females. You're probably afraid. Yeah, said the old woman. Look, I'll cut the apple in 1.00

01:08:09.460 two. You eat the beautiful red half. However, the apple had been made with such cunning that only the red

01:08:15.960 part was poisoned. When little Snow White saw the peasant woman eating her half, and when her desire 0.72

01:08:21.680 to taste the apple grew stronger, she finally let the peasant woman give her the other half through 1.00

01:08:26.840 the window. As soon as she took a bite of the apple, she fell to the ground and was dead. The queen

01:08:32.660 rejoiced, went home and asked the mirror, mirror, mirror on the wall, who in this land is the fairest of

01:08:39.040 them all? And the mirror answered, you, my queen, are now the fairest of all. So the evil queen produced

01:08:47.780 the pathological fruit of knowledge that dooms Snow White to death, administering it under the guise of

01:08:58.000 compassion and caring in the form of a fruit so attractive that anyone with eyes would be tempted

01:09:06.260 to take it. Brutal. Now I can rest in peace, she said. Once again, I'm the most beautiful in the land,

01:09:13.100 and Snow White will remain dead this time. So couldn't kill her with the bodice or the corset, 0.95

01:09:20.400 couldn't kill her with the poisonous comb, but could certainly kill her with the consumption of the fatal 0.99

01:09:26.520 apple. When the dwarfs came home from the mines that evening, they found little Snow White lying on the

01:09:32.420 ground and she was dead. They unlazed her and tried to find something poisonous in her hair, but nothing 1.00

01:09:37.020 helped. They couldn't revive her. Okay, so what does that mean? The core element of the evil queen is so

01:09:46.680 unbelievably pathological, so destructive, that ordinary, conscientious, diligent, protective

01:09:56.740 masculinity is revealed as insufficient to redress the poison, right? So that's why the queen, 1.00

01:10:08.340 the prince has to come along, right? It's only the higher order form of masculinity that's associated

01:10:15.700 with true nobility and true courage that has the

01:10:21.240 archetypal force, you might say, to provide true protection from the depredations of the evil

01:10:33.340 queen. Well, Snow White is the helpmeet of the dwarfs, right? But there's no individualized 0.95

01:10:43.520 relationship there. She hasn't moved beyond

01:10:46.460 cooperation with the

01:10:50.160 social patriarchy as such to the establishment of a

01:10:55.660 personalized relationship with an individual

01:10:59.660 and identifiable man, right? So

01:11:03.240 she's still in the land of generic masculinity, and that's a hell of a lot 1.00

01:11:08.420 better than the land of pathological, evil queen, destructive femininity, but it's not a relationship

01:11:17.180 that's of sufficient depth and intensity to provide protection against the most fatal of

01:11:28.560 feminine poisons. They couldn't revive her, so they laid her on a beer, and all seven of them sat down

01:11:38.220 beside it and wept for three whole days. Then they intended to bury her, but she still looked more

01:11:43.420 alive than dead, and she still had such pretty red cheeks. So instead they made a glass coffin and 0.99

01:11:48.800 placed her inside so that she could easily be seen. So they're worshiping her in a sense, even in her

01:11:56.020 poisoned and near-dead state. They still value her, right? So what does that mean?

01:12:02.020 It means that the ordinary

01:12:05.820 men

01:12:07.780 apprehending

01:12:09.580 an attractive young woman who has been poisoned

01:12:13.840 by the teachings of the evil queen

01:12:17.040 still hope

01:12:19.360 in their soul

01:12:21.020 for the revivification

01:12:23.520 of her spirit, but are unable to

01:12:26.700 match the machinations

01:12:29.400 of the 0.97

01:12:30.160 evil queen

01:12:31.460 themselves. Right, so they stand back and observe

01:12:34.540 and that's all they can do.

01:12:37.640 They wrote her name on the coffin in gold letters

01:12:40.300 showing how much they value her

01:12:41.940 and added the family name. One of the dwarfs remained at home every day to keep watch over her.

01:12:47.100 So Snow White

01:12:47.820 lay in the coffin

01:12:48.840 for a long, long time.

01:12:51.140 Right, so now she's

01:12:52.520 that's failure to launch. Now she's in a state 0.99

01:12:55.480 of suspended animation

01:12:56.840 because of her

01:12:58.160 poison

01:12:58.920 knowledge

01:13:00.460 because of her receipt of the

01:13:02.060 poisoned apple

01:13:02.800 she

01:13:03.740 is mimicking life

01:13:05.780 but is unconscious

01:13:08.260 and unable to fully

01:13:09.780 participate.

01:13:11.400 She was still white as snow 0.83

01:13:12.500 and red as blood

01:13:13.280 and if her eyes could have opened

01:13:14.380 they would have been black as ebony

01:13:15.740 for she lay there

01:13:16.740 as if she were sleeping.

01:13:18.080 Now it happened

01:13:19.140 that a prince

01:13:20.200 came to the dwarfs cottage 0.56

01:13:21.840 one day

01:13:22.400 and wanted to spend the night there.

01:13:24.320 So what's a prince?

01:13:25.440 Well, a prince actually wants to have a relationship with the individual woman.

01:13:30.840 He wants to take on that responsibility.

01:13:33.680 He has the power and the capability

01:13:36.300 to bring her to a place

01:13:39.020 in consequence of that individualized relationship

01:13:42.720 that offers her both protection and opportunity

01:13:46.200 that's of such high quality

01:13:49.260 that the

01:13:50.540 depredations of the evil queen

01:13:53.100 and her temptations

01:13:54.520 are

01:13:55.280 defeated.

01:13:56.980 That's what a prince is.

01:13:59.400 And it's the individualized relationship

01:14:01.500 that's of crucial importance.

01:14:03.260 when he entered the room

01:14:06.580 and saw little Snow White

01:14:07.620 lying in the coffin

01:14:08.440 and the seven little candles

01:14:09.620 casting their light

01:14:10.580 right on her

01:14:11.180 he couldn't get enough

01:14:11.940 of her beauty.

01:14:13.020 Then he read the golden inscription

01:14:14.520 and saw that she was

01:14:15.740 a princess.

01:14:17.960 So he asked the dwarfs 0.99

01:14:19.140 to sell him the coffin

01:14:20.160 with the dead little Snow White

01:14:21.840 inside

01:14:22.260 but they wouldn't accept

01:14:23.440 all the gold

01:14:24.080 in the world for it.

01:14:25.260 Then he pleaded with them

01:14:26.380 to give little Snow White

01:14:27.680 to him as a gift

01:14:28.580 because he couldn't live

01:14:30.140 without gazing upon her

01:14:31.320 and that he would honor her

01:14:32.500 and hold her in high regard

01:14:34.060 as his most beloved

01:14:35.100 in the world.

01:14:36.420 Well so that's so interesting

01:14:37.780 because the dwarfs

01:14:38.780 are protecting Snow White

01:14:40.040 and they have a relationship

01:14:41.360 with her

01:14:41.860 although it's more

01:14:42.760 fraternal

01:14:44.120 or paternal

01:14:45.140 and

01:14:46.080 they aren't interested

01:14:47.720 in capitalizing

01:14:49.420 on her attractiveness

01:14:50.640 and they are willing

01:14:52.920 however they are willing

01:14:54.180 to turn her over 0.94

01:14:55.300 to the prince

01:14:56.800 if he promises

01:14:59.060 so this is what good men do

01:15:00.940 when they're protecting

01:15:02.200 an attractive 0.55

01:15:03.440 and

01:15:04.520 worthy

01:15:06.400 young woman

01:15:07.520 they're willing

01:15:08.560 to

01:15:09.000 deliver her 0.91

01:15:10.640 to the proper prince

01:15:12.700 who can protect her

01:15:14.440 from the evil queen

01:15:15.560 if

01:15:16.540 he

01:15:17.420 swears

01:15:18.400 to

01:15:18.860 honor her

01:15:19.840 and hold her

01:15:20.420 in high regard

01:15:21.080 as his most beloved

01:15:22.140 in the world.

01:15:23.880 Well the dwarfs 1.00

01:15:24.680 took pity on him

01:15:25.680 and gave him the coffin

01:15:26.680 where the poisoned

01:15:29.120 girl 0.91

01:15:30.260 lies

01:15:31.160 languishing

01:15:31.840 God

01:15:33.620 that's the story

01:15:35.140 of many a modern romance

01:15:36.620 and the prince

01:15:39.880 had it carried

01:15:40.360 to his castle

01:15:41.060 it was then placed

01:15:42.000 in his room

01:15:42.500 where he himself

01:15:43.200 sat the entire day

01:15:44.240 and couldn't take

01:15:45.180 his eyes off her

01:15:46.200 so he can see

01:15:47.520 her

01:15:47.920 potential life

01:15:49.700 even

01:15:51.060 under the

01:15:52.440 poisoned

01:15:53.740 breathless

01:15:54.560 death

01:15:55.020 that

01:15:55.460 the incorporation

01:15:56.800 of the

01:15:57.380 toxic fruit

01:15:58.720 has

01:15:59.180 has what

01:16:00.880 has

01:16:01.540 has doomed

01:16:03.200 her to 0.94

01:16:03.680 and when he had to

01:16:05.840 leave the room

01:16:06.320 and couldn't see

01:16:06.860 little Snow White

01:16:07.540 he became sad

01:16:08.420 indeed

01:16:08.840 he couldn't eat a thing

01:16:09.880 unless he was standing

01:16:10.740 near the coffin

01:16:11.500 however the servants

01:16:13.200 who had to carry the coffin

01:16:14.260 from place to place

01:16:15.120 in the castle

01:16:15.660 all the time

01:16:16.240 became angry

01:16:17.240 about this

01:16:17.860 and at one time

01:16:18.840 a servant

01:16:19.280 opened the coffin

01:16:20.720 lifted Snow White

01:16:22.040 into the air

01:16:22.640 and said

01:16:23.360 why must we be

01:16:24.420 plagued with so much work

01:16:25.680 all because of a dead maiden 1.00

01:16:27.220 yeah well there's no doubt

01:16:29.220 that it's a tremendous

01:16:30.680 amount of work

01:16:31.840 to revivify the spirit

01:16:34.040 of a young woman

01:16:36.340 who's been severely poisoned

01:16:38.660 by the worst work

01:16:39.880 of the evil queen 0.68

01:16:41.120 on saying this

01:16:42.920 he shoved little Snow White's 1.00

01:16:44.260 back with his hand

01:16:45.140 and out popped

01:16:45.800 the nasty piece of apple

01:16:47.020 that had been stuck

01:16:48.120 in little Snow White's throat

01:16:49.640 and she was once again alive

01:16:51.040 so once the

01:16:52.100 the languishing young girl

01:16:55.940 is brought to the castle

01:16:57.300 and attended to

01:16:59.000 even with some degree

01:17:00.660 of harshness

01:17:01.380 in this story

01:17:02.100 loved and attended to

01:17:04.100 then

01:17:05.140 she has the possibility

01:17:07.040 of recovering

01:17:08.600 from her

01:17:09.420 state of suspended animation

01:17:11.880 and lifelessness

01:17:13.540 and rejoining

01:17:15.400 the world

01:17:16.360 as soon as this happened

01:17:19.740 she went to the prince

01:17:20.780 and when he saw

01:17:22.640 his dear Snow White

01:17:23.560 alive

01:17:24.060 he rejoiced so much

01:17:25.380 that he didn't know

01:17:26.020 what to do

01:17:26.500 then they sat down

01:17:27.500 at the dinner table

01:17:28.280 and ate with delight

01:17:29.200 the wedding

01:17:30.380 was planned for the next day

01:17:31.980 by the way

01:17:32.900 just so everyone knows

01:17:34.800 there was no wedding

01:17:36.820 in the most recent version

01:17:38.120 of Snow White

01:17:38.800 and that bloody well figures

01:17:40.620 there was a

01:17:41.700 you know

01:17:42.420 hedonistic

01:17:43.540 celebration

01:17:44.660 that

01:17:45.260 in principle

01:17:46.260 stood in for the wedding

01:17:47.780 but

01:17:48.080 but the filmmakers

01:17:49.640 seem pathologically

01:17:50.820 unable to understand

01:17:51.900 that the

01:17:52.560 wedding

01:17:53.600 is the culmination

01:17:55.000 of the story

01:17:55.740 right

01:17:56.060 because that's the

01:17:57.200 establishment of that

01:17:58.240 particularized relationship

01:17:59.640 between the

01:18:00.980 poisoned

01:18:02.680 sleeping princess

01:18:04.020 and the true prince

01:18:05.900 who

01:18:06.620 serves and honors her

01:18:08.880 and who delights

01:18:10.140 in her presence

01:18:11.040 that

01:18:12.020 establishment

01:18:13.360 of that permanent

01:18:14.200 relationship

01:18:14.800 is the magic

01:18:17.180 defense

01:18:18.760 against the

01:18:20.320 poisonous

01:18:21.740 fruit

01:18:22.940 delivered by the

01:18:24.580 most

01:18:25.320 malevolent

01:18:29.160 of the 0.90

01:18:30.080 evil queen's

01:18:31.760 motivations

01:18:33.000 the wedding was planned

01:18:34.620 for the next day

01:18:35.320 and Snow White's

01:18:36.100 godless mother

01:18:36.960 it's the first time

01:18:38.140 we hear that she was

01:18:38.860 godless

01:18:39.340 but she has a god

01:18:40.700 right

01:18:40.940 that's her own 0.74

01:18:41.600 reflection

01:18:42.140 she's Narcissus

01:18:43.780 who falls in love

01:18:45.220 with his own

01:18:45.680 reflection

01:18:46.160 and drowns

01:18:46.980 in consequence

01:18:47.580 right

01:18:47.960 he leans too

01:18:49.080 close to the

01:18:50.000 river

01:18:50.400 where he can see

01:18:51.100 his reflection

01:18:51.760 and drowns

01:18:52.960 right

01:18:53.240 she only worships

01:18:54.240 her own

01:18:54.740 beauty

01:18:55.680 which she had

01:18:56.700 nothing to do

01:18:57.420 with bringing

01:18:58.480 into the world

01:18:59.240 so to speak

01:18:59.900 and has no right

01:19:00.820 to be proud of

01:19:02.740 much less to be

01:19:04.020 murderous in defense

01:19:05.180 of

01:19:05.440 when she now

01:19:07.020 stepped before the

01:19:07.760 mirror she said

01:19:08.500 mirror mirror

01:19:09.200 on the wall

01:19:10.460 who in this land

01:19:11.480 is the fairest of all

01:19:12.480 and the mirror

01:19:13.140 replied

01:19:14.220 you my queen

01:19:15.480 may have a beauty

01:19:16.240 quite rare

01:19:16.860 but little Snow White

01:19:18.220 is a thousand times

01:19:19.900 more fair

01:19:20.520 when she heard this

01:19:21.960 she was horrified

01:19:23.000 and became so afraid

01:19:25.620 so very afraid

01:19:26.700 that she didn't know

01:19:27.440 what to do

01:19:28.120 yeah well

01:19:29.160 the

01:19:29.580 marriage

01:19:31.300 of

01:19:31.880 Snow White

01:19:33.680 the awake

01:19:34.760 Snow White

01:19:35.440 to the prince

01:19:36.700 is

01:19:37.920 the defeat

01:19:38.980 of the evil queen

01:19:40.040 however

01:19:40.820 her jealousy 0.63

01:19:41.640 right

01:19:42.900 a crucial insight

01:19:44.520 however

01:19:45.180 her jealousy 0.63

01:19:46.160 what's she jealous of 0.99

01:19:48.120 she's just jealous 1.00

01:19:49.220 of the fact

01:19:49.880 that Snow White

01:19:50.620 has established

01:19:51.420 a genuine relationship

01:19:52.560 with an actual prince

01:19:53.860 her jealousy 0.63

01:19:54.880 drove her so much

01:19:55.960 that she wanted

01:19:56.560 to be seen

01:19:57.640 at the wedding

01:19:58.700 when she arrived

01:20:00.080 she saw that

01:20:01.440 little Snow White

01:20:02.180 was the bride

01:20:03.000 ha

01:20:03.900 iron slippers

01:20:05.600 were then heated

01:20:06.480 over a fire

01:20:07.340 the queen

01:20:08.240 had to put them on

01:20:09.780 and dance in them

01:20:11.000 and her feet

01:20:11.940 were miserably burned

01:20:13.880 but she had to keep

01:20:15.540 dancing in them

01:20:16.360 until she danced

01:20:17.540 herself

01:20:18.120 to death 0.55

01:20:19.620 right

01:20:21.160 well what's that ending

01:20:22.500 well how about

01:20:23.660 the queen 0.96

01:20:24.240 ends up in hell

01:20:25.660 and what's the hell 0.84

01:20:27.260 what is she doing

01:20:30.320 well she was driven

01:20:33.160 to the wedding

01:20:33.680 by her own pride

01:20:34.660 and jealousy

01:20:35.260 and

01:20:36.540 she's consumed

01:20:38.580 by

01:20:39.080 fire

01:20:41.080 in consequence

01:20:42.080 of her

01:20:42.900 pathology

01:20:45.540 and its

01:20:46.260 ultimate failure

01:20:47.820 so

01:20:49.180 that's Snow White

01:20:52.580 and it's no bloody wonder

01:20:53.920 Disney rewrote it

01:20:55.000 thanks very much

01:20:57.040 everybody

01:20:57.360 for listening

01:20:58.240 I may do more

01:21:00.160 of these

01:21:00.560 you know

01:21:00.880 they're

01:21:01.300 they're quite something

01:21:03.660 it's amazing

01:21:05.200 how much information

01:21:06.200 a story

01:21:07.620 can

01:21:08.040 contain

01:21:09.220 you know

01:21:09.980 and you might ask

01:21:10.680 well did the authors

01:21:11.700 know

01:21:12.340 what they were

01:21:13.760 representing

01:21:14.360 and the answer is

01:21:15.140 you know

01:21:15.420 we never know

01:21:16.040 the full extent

01:21:16.740 of anything

01:21:17.200 we communicate

01:21:17.860 or imagine

01:21:18.620 everything has

01:21:20.080 implications

01:21:21.040 beyond

01:21:21.620 what we

01:21:22.780 can apprehend

01:21:23.860 I would say

01:21:25.560 that

01:21:25.880 the story

01:21:27.800 shaped itself

01:21:28.600 to be maximally

01:21:29.500 memorable

01:21:29.940 and striking

01:21:30.560 across time

01:21:32.160 and

01:21:32.760 what's maximally

01:21:35.080 memorable

01:21:35.520 and striking

01:21:36.320 has

01:21:37.980 inevitably

01:21:39.100 has the ring

01:21:39.940 of deep truth

01:21:41.160 about it

01:21:41.660 and so

01:21:42.880 that's how

01:21:44.160 such things

01:21:44.760 come to be

01:21:45.460 thanks for your

01:21:47.020 time and attention

01:21:47.800 bye bye

01:21:49.040 one

01:21:50.620 to be

01:21:53.380 bye

01:21:53.420 even

01:21:53.780 I

01:21:54.380 you

01:21:54.640 I

01:21:55.300 want to be

01:21:55.580 be

01:22:08.820 busy

01:22:08.840 in

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - June 30, 2025

558. The Meaning Of： Snow White

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