00:02:17.740I apologize for nothing. I owe you nothing. I will not clarify anything for you or explain
00:02:27.740anything to you. I know what you're doing. I know the game you're playing.
00:02:33.860And if on some incredibly obscure chance any of you are sincerely offended or hurt or outraged
00:02:40.780or concerned, I don't care. Your feelings are your problem. I don't give a damn about them
00:02:49.760or you. I decline to take part in this struggle session, and I have nothing but contempt for
00:02:57.920anyone trying to drag me into it. The only truly aggrieved party here is me. I am the one being
00:03:07.480defamed and smeared across the internet by a bunch of gutless worms like yourselves.0.99
00:03:12.360So you should be apologizing to me. The only person owed an apology is me. You should be0.99
00:03:20.980issuing a statement to me to clarify and explain why you've decided to behave like a bunch of0.99
00:03:25.860blood-sucking leeches instead of human beings. That's the statement I'm waiting for,0.96
00:03:31.840but I won't hold my breath. And I hope you don't hold your breath waiting for me to say what you
00:03:36.440want me to say or do what you want me to say because you will be dead before that happens.0.97
00:03:42.320I am not your circus monkey. I'm not going to dance for you because you yell at me or throw0.75
00:03:47.980me a treat. I will say whatever I want to say when I want to say it, and I will do what I want to do
00:03:55.640when I want to do it. That is all the explanation you are ever going to get.
00:04:01.340and it's still a hell of a lot more than you deserve so in conclusion piss off you ridiculous0.99
00:04:10.440lying soulless frauds matt's response is one of the central keys in the fight to defeat the long0.99
00:04:19.200house school marms and mobs demanding apologies if you give in to their fake empathy if you pay
00:04:25.100their dane geld you will never be done paying no amount of denouncements apologies or clarifications
00:04:31.280will ever satisfy the bloodthirsty mob.
00:04:34.700For decades, such mobs have been able to destroy anyone they set their sights on.
00:04:39.600They weaponize feigned outrage, not as a tool of true help,
00:04:43.920not in a desire for truthful discourse, but as a tool for manipulation.
00:04:48.780Now, there's much that could be said about this dynamic,
00:04:51.860but I'd like to focus in on just one fairly narrow aspect of this issue
00:04:56.200to set the stage for today's episode of the King's Hall.
00:04:59.080And that would be the fundamentally long-housed nature of this tactic.0.95
00:05:04.620The longhouse, as you remember from a recent episode, is a feminized, overly nurturing and controlling modern culture, a society ruled by women.1.00
00:05:13.820It's what you get when the gatekeepers of society ruthlessly enforce feminine-centric norms.0.97
00:05:20.600Now, don't get me wrong. Femininity is a glory, but rule by women is not.1.00
00:05:26.100One thing Matt was doing when he responded to the latest controversy, as he did,
00:05:30.200was to commit a public blasphemy against the faux outrage of the longhouse bouncers.
00:05:36.820After all, what are you looking at when you see people pretending to have their feelings hurt,
00:05:42.000intentionally misunderstanding their opponent in the most rage-inducing way?
00:09:45.960It's a fundamentally masculine characteristic.
00:09:49.800And one of the things I think as we get into this episode that we'll see, it takes a certain level of risk to confront feminism in the culture.
00:09:57.680but Dan I kind of want to get your take first of all as we address this subject matter we are
00:10:03.440watching in the cold open the Matt Walsh one of the things is it requires a response I think
00:10:09.200the Longhouse does from us that can seem strange because it's not one that we normally hear
00:10:15.020Matt gave his response and then naturally everybody was like that's so uncaring
00:10:20.640how could you not care about the feelings of others but why is it important that we respond
00:13:36.660if it was addressed to you or not but i start to open and i feel tension and so i just keep it
00:13:41.380closed and confetti or whatever glitter glitter starts pouring out all over my lap all over the
00:13:49.640the the pew and on the ground it made a tremendous mess it did but they didn't get us they didn't
00:13:55.940because it didn't blow up dan was like a soldier in vietnam who's you know in the movies on the
00:14:01.560thing and he's like go on without me yeah i think the thing i love about this story is dan is
00:14:06.620basically like the food taster for the king where he gets glitter bombs i'm so i really do not
00:14:13.360appreciate that analogy i'm the cup bearer for brian i i'll take one on eric's behalf hey brian
00:14:21.100i will be your cup bearer i appreciate i mean but looking at me i probably don't need any extra food
00:14:26.780well but it's a cup so it's a cup it's a cup you just taste it and see if you die
00:14:32.360just a small amount actually when you were describing that i was like i like who knows
00:14:37.620if it's like it was a bomb of sorts it literally was it would have been catastrophic and think
00:14:43.180about it in a sanctuary how tall are the ceilings in the in the sanctuary of our church they're like
00:14:48.92030 35 feet yeah oh my word it would have spread everywhere we'd still be cleaning we would still
00:14:54.580have glitter but that just goes to show how much people appreciate they really appreciate it they
00:14:59.200were saying good job here's a reward for you here's a celebratory yeah like a firework almost
00:15:05.640an indoor fire we get stuff like that all the time what's funny though is that this dynamic
00:15:09.620we've pointed at it in lots of different places but i i think it's key to conservatives and
00:15:15.920christian reformers winning is identifying getting really really good at identifying and seeing this
00:15:21.460dynamic playing out where the left pretends to be outraged or like dan said they they identify
00:15:27.160some hypothetical person who could have their feelings hurt by what you just said notice what
00:15:32.340they've done they've shifted the conversation the discourse away from is it true is it needful to
00:15:38.320say is it important and on to people's feelings or hypothetical responses the left does that but
00:15:45.660now here's the play we have to see that but that's kind of an obvious play to see at this point
00:15:49.360the next step is sneakier and it's that they've actually trained the right to enforce that
00:15:56.720standard for the left so the right becomes the gatekeeper of the right and and they become the
00:16:03.560ones who are saying think about this how many republican voting conservative um hr workers
00:16:09.160in businesses enforce these norms and they might even say like i've heard people have this
00:16:13.740conversation you know i'm not offended by what you said i understand where you're coming from
00:16:18.240But you just have to understand in this professional corporate environment or in this, you know, in the church, we really have to be sensitive to.
00:16:25.320And then when you actually start getting down to it, you're being asked to be sensitive to civilization destroying evils and the sentimentalities of people who support civilization destroying evils.
00:16:38.800Well, I think this was kind of Joe Rigney's point with the whole weaponized empathy.
00:16:43.240And it really comes from Edwin Friedman in The Failure of Nerve.
00:16:46.540But he said, fundamentally, our society is ordered around no longer risk taking, bold, courageous leadership, but it's ordered around the weakest, fussiest members of society.
00:17:00.120Yeah. Right. So we have to cater to the fussers.
00:17:03.400And the thing is, those people are they're actually the problems in the society.1.00
00:17:08.100It's interesting, too, because Friedman gives this example of how to deal with it.
00:17:11.880and he he's talking about going and giving a lecture and he's talking about this subject
00:17:18.020matter and he said some guy stands up and you know starts playing the empathy card and don't
00:17:24.220you know this is hurting people's feelings and he's giving an example of how to deal with it
00:17:28.240and he said i don't care literally don't i literally don't care whose feelings this hurts
00:17:33.440we ought to be asking the question is it true and if you'd like to engage on that front i will
00:17:38.200otherwise yeah you know go away if you want to deport you know somebody who's here illegally
00:17:44.100and all they have to do is play a slow motion video of a hispanic family being deported while
00:17:51.760someone sings in the arms of the angels far away like if that's enough to be like okay all right
00:17:59.680everyone can stay everybody can be in fact the whole world are undocumented americans like if
00:18:06.060that's all it takes, is one slow-motion video with the right song behind it. Congratulations,
00:29:30.840There's no pattern or truth to what he's saying whatsoever
00:29:35.440that male and female sexuality differ,
00:29:38.180that the patterns of male and female sexual behavior differ in society but the thing that
00:29:45.900strikes me about these quotations and his message in general is like what you'd conclude from
00:29:52.460reading them is that basically males and male sexuality is far more degenerate than female
00:30:01.580sexuality right and that the thing primarily that fixes men is submitting to the leadership
00:30:10.300vision destinational all of these different directions from female sexuality and that that
00:30:16.860is the solution and he even uses words like the civilizational like this is what creates a
00:30:21.600civilized society are these kinds of norms uh and and dynamics that are playing out it says all
00:30:30.120societies recognize this the thing is that when i read something like uh canterbury tales
00:30:36.500chaucer's canterbury tales it i don't walk away from that with the idea that sexually speaking
00:30:45.680because it's a very bawdy story um that medieval sexuality was like this thing where basically
00:30:53.620women were completely innocent victims of male sexuality, it's actually a story where
00:31:01.840there's lots of both male and female sexual sin. And that's what I see play out in culture. They0.99
00:31:08.760have different polarity to them. We've said before that I think it's true that men love to lust,
00:31:15.860women love to be lusted after, and that that dynamic tends to drive the sexual marketplace.0.81
00:31:23.620But that doesn't mean that there we have this one defective, basically a defective woman who needs to be womanized, turned into a woman sexually in order to become an ethical, civilized, domesticated man.0.96
00:31:40.760As if men are like basically wild animals and the thing that turns them into good barn cows is the presence of a woman.0.98
00:31:51.220Well, yeah. And I think it's interesting, too, if you just look at the evidence from the 20th century, you do not find like women have been in places of rule and power more than probably any other society in the history of the world.0.74
00:32:05.680Correct. And what we've actually found is that women can be equally as sexually debauched. And you see this with abortion, right? That women are quick to fornicate, be promiscuous, and then kill their children.0.98
00:32:21.300i just don't think it bears out dan that women are this great civilizational force that basically1.00
00:32:27.520are the ones dictating what amounts to good society um it's no coincidence that as women1.00
00:32:35.160rise women begin to vote they enter the workforce they enter politics that american society0.96
00:32:40.220basically falls apart like what built the west in the great civilization of the west0.95
00:32:45.100was not this ideal of women and all of the norming sexual mores that created civilization0.85
00:32:53.060and society in the west were rapidly eroded under this dynamic well and they were and they
00:33:00.340were eroded many of them using the tactic of the appeal to emotion not rigorous factual argumentation
00:33:08.540yeah so i want to ask dan the these you've heard the gilder quotes
00:33:12.700what do you think this produces in the church does it produce healthy households does it produce
00:33:20.620well-run churches because we've actually lived with this type of like gilder is being promoted
00:33:27.020by people on the right but what is the actual fruit of this kind of thinking well yeah church
00:33:33.200i mean if you look at the church uh throughout history or even modern church and you grant
00:33:40.340special status to some class of individuals, you know, essentially giving sinful partiality
00:33:49.060to a certain class. Let me give an example that is not sex-based. We've seen this in the modern
00:33:59.240church, that there seems to be this class of pastor that cannot be questioned, right? That
00:34:06.780they'll sin in egregious ways and people will just look over their sin and without repentance,
00:34:13.020right? And they'll just continue doing what they're doing, which is sinning. And what does
00:34:18.260that produce in churches? Well, it produces churches that aren't really churches because
00:34:22.040there's sin that's coming into the church and it's not being addressed. Now, imagine half or
00:34:29.440more of the church is granted some sort of special status because the presupposition is that women
00:34:35.820are more spiritual. They don't sin in the same ways as men, which is true, but that they don't0.59
00:34:42.520actually sin and that they actually, in fact, you should submit to them in some ways. What is that
00:34:48.640going to lead to? Well, it's going to lead to all sorts of bad fruit because you have a certain
00:34:51.960class of person within the church that their sins aren't being addressed. And in fact, they're
00:34:57.760looked over and tolerated and in fact celebrated in some ways. And so what do you get? Well, you
00:35:04.280get a lot of naggy church ladies who aren't directly addressed. And you see this most1.00
00:35:09.320obviously with Father's Day sermons versus Mother's Day sermons. Father's Day is like,
00:35:14.240you guys are terrible. You're wicked. You need to step up to the plate. You're not doing your job.1.00
00:35:19.840And for Mother's Day, it's like, oh man, mothers are beautiful. They're wonderful. Your jobs are
00:35:25.740so hard. You have to put up with all these kids. And then not to mention your husband,
00:35:30.340who is an absolute dope and so that's going to what is the fruit of that well you're going to0.96
00:35:36.480actually encourage the sins that are unique to women and submit yourself to those sins so a lot0.74
00:35:42.000of that ends up being manipulation uh caring more about feelings than about the truth a lot of
00:35:49.200nagging you know is it you just the women are going to be upset let's not talk about it you
00:35:55.440You know, and so you start doing other programs that really get around some of these issues.
00:36:00.160And so you start having workarounds so that you don't actually have to address this group.
00:36:05.640And like cancer, it spreads through the entire church.
00:36:09.320And I think that's definitely what we have.
00:39:56.480The solution isn't for the woman to become more male or the man to become more female.
00:40:01.280the answer is for both of them as grace restores and perfects nature to act in accordance with
00:40:08.240their creational norms with their natures for the man to be a man and in his defense this is why i
00:40:14.940call it a halfway house is that gilder would agree with that he'd be like yes of course he says it
00:40:19.580men need to be men but then he goes on to describe the the nature of a man in a way that your0.51
00:40:28.140conclusion inevitably becomes to become a true man he has to become feminized right by her right
00:40:34.180he has to submit to her and it it missed it's it's it's close it's a millimeter off and a mile
00:40:41.120off at the same time because there is a sense in which the man is made to behold the the beauty of
00:40:49.040the woman and the glory of her femininity and say yes and burst forth in song and say this at last
00:40:57.040is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh. I was not adequate by myself to make civilization.
00:41:04.080That is true. He could not replicate himself by himself. He needs the woman and she needs the man.
00:41:10.600They're given to one another to achieve the ends of civilization, but it's not going to be by0.70
00:41:16.340either one of them becoming some kind of mixture of the two where she becomes like a quasi head
00:41:21.720and he becomes a quasi woman that's just the opposite of what scripture says i get what that
00:41:27.600sandlin in that quote is being sort of i call it like chivalric um chivalric false falsehoods it's
00:41:37.860like this um sense of chivalry where the man is designed to protect and defend the woman and her0.96
00:41:46.660honor like that dynamics there she is a glory she's a glory and all of the feminists hear what1.00
00:41:53.220we're saying and they do the purple woman thing and they say so what you're saying is that women0.99
00:41:57.080are useless and they're blah blah blah and they're like no no no i'm saying that she's a glory and0.99
00:42:02.340he's a glory and they're different glories and they work together in the order that god appointed0.82
00:42:08.900and according to the natures that god created when i think what can be helpful in like giving
00:42:14.660a practical example of how this works we were having discussion this week in the household
00:42:18.300and you know we're wrapping up school there's all these plans we're trying to you know fit
00:42:23.960everybody's wants needs with the household agenda and my wife came to me and she said hey there's a
00:42:30.500lot of fussing going on with the children and they know how to play me they know how to play
00:42:35.360my emotional state she said i need you to go in and tell them what's happening and and i asked i
00:42:42.240said yeah i can definitely do that just curious i want to know more about this like what specifically
00:42:48.440is good about me doing that and she said this is what makes you good at ruling a household as a man
00:42:54.980is when they won't fuss at you because they know the answer you'll give is i don't care like this
00:43:00.500is what we're doing margaret and this is what's happening and the kids will go okay and if they
00:43:05.220do fuss i'll say yeah i don't care like this is what the house was doing yeah now so in that in
00:43:10.160that way a godly woman can understand hey i know how i can be played they know and that's why
00:43:19.260they're doing it and so i need you to go and do the the you know i don't care margaret there was
00:43:25.940a study that i saw it was like one of those facebook the study says i didn't read the study
00:43:30.920but it was a post it was going around it was like psychologists have discovered that children
00:43:35.640are 800% more ill-behaved in the presence of their mother than out of the presence of their
00:43:44.380mother. And they were measuring this where like, let's say that it's just the kids with the mom
00:43:48.580and how do they behave, defiance and rudeness and fussing and all this stuff. And then let's say
00:43:54.220they're in an environment and then mom comes in to the environment and do they change in their
00:43:58.240behavior? And like universally they discovered that children become way worse. And of course
00:44:03.800they concluded all of this like gobbledygook from it like so this means this and this and this
00:44:08.960but fundamentally if you think about the again to nature to the creational dynamic the children
00:44:14.120were created to need a mother who would nurture them and protect them and be a source of warmth
00:44:20.800and comfort and so they are designed to let their guard down and be nurtured in the presence of of
00:44:28.900mother. Now dad is designed like they've done other studies that children like babies even get
00:44:36.240excited around dad because he's seen as more dangerous, like more rough, more rowdy. I think
00:44:42.560about the way I even play with a one month old Penelope. And, you know, I do her little stand,1.00
00:44:48.120you know, she, I hold her and say, we're going to do our jumps. She loves doing her jumps. She's
00:44:52.220one month old. And when I, you know, I hold her up like standing under little armpits. And then
00:44:56.220whenever she kicks her legs i like oh you jumped and she loves it she smiles huge mom never would
00:45:02.620have fought to do this like mom's comforting her and holding her so the kids get excited around dad
00:45:08.320and they see him as dangerous but kind of like oh he's exciting he's he's he's rougher he's more
00:45:13.580he's got more you know rough edges to him so of course for dad what are you what are you seeing
00:45:20.540with mom and dad and their reaction it's nature it's their understanding on a subconscious level
00:45:27.500a sub thinking level what mom is for what dad is for how they're supposed to be shaped by both
00:45:35.120they need both and what i hear in gilder is let's just the one she's great she's perfect then maybe
00:45:43.680there's a few little sins here and there but what we really need is for the men to just get in touch
00:45:48.900with their feminine side well and also fundamentally like men need to submit to the the superior
00:45:54.800instincts of women um and so yeah i mean which tells a different story really than our our
00:46:01.280forefathers and the traditions of of western civilization correct you know we were talking
00:46:06.020about this with pastor garrett and he brought up the epic of gilgamesh and so maybe this is just a
00:46:10.920different way to look at this issue that we're talking about we talked about this uh i i remember
00:46:15.860writing the cold open for Gilgamesh in season one. And so you have Gilgamesh in ancient Babylon
00:46:21.440and he's ruling and he is a tyrant and he goes through the city and he's capturing women and,0.97
00:46:29.840and raping them. And he's a horrible man. And then there's, there's Enkidu who is like this1.00
00:46:35.320beast man who's out in the, in the woods, in the wilderness, and he's running with
00:46:39.820the woodland creatures and things like that anyway long story short they end up fighting
00:46:46.900they had this epic battle buildings are destroyed the the women run away in terror you know because
00:46:53.820of this scary battle that is has broken up between Gilgamesh and Enkidu and uh Enkidu actually
00:47:00.400subdues Gilgamesh if my recollection is correct and they become really good friends and it's
00:47:07.980through this male friendship that they're actually able to rule well and make Babylon into a great
00:47:15.520nation. Eventually the gods kill Enkidu and then Gilgamesh goes on this journey actually to a bar
00:47:20.560to gain immortality and all sorts of crazy stuff. But one of the points of the story was that
00:47:26.600civilization is built by brotherhood. It's actually not built primarily through women rule
00:47:35.720or the woman subduing men it's actually by men being together and subduing one another
00:47:43.280i mean that think think about just nature i bet at some point in elementary school if you're like
00:47:48.660me you got in a fight with someone like one one of the guys you could stand this guy i remember
00:47:54.200his name was jeff marty that son of a gun we got in a fight and then after that we're like
00:47:58.900best bros right we hung out every day after school my our parents were both really annoyed
00:48:04.480because they'd have to, you know, drop us off and pick us up all the time. But that was like my guy,
00:48:09.360right? For a long time. But it was through the struggle that we actually became really good
00:48:14.760friends and ended up like, it was really good for both of our characters, you know, as young,
00:48:20.580young men to grow up. And so I want to get to a point though, if you look at civilizations,
00:48:27.620they're built by men and not just a man, by men, like a tribe of men getting together.
00:48:36.840You look at rites of passage, like in tribal leadership talks about this a lot, where there
00:48:41.600were rites of passage for young men to become men, to be accepted into the tribal leadership
00:48:47.200of the men, to be seen as peers, to actually grow up and to be built up. But what happened around,
00:48:54.040I mean, French Revolution, all of that, but the temperance movement, really, where the nagging of women swayed legislation so much that they said, men are having too much fun in bars and in coffee houses and things like that, pool rooms.
00:49:12.820Let's just make drinking illegal, right?0.80
01:06:57.700and i guess give them halfway they get 100 when you give them halfway that's right and on the
01:07:03.040other hand it's like uh there was actually russell moore in the the oos who was warning
01:07:07.840the complementarians about this he said you either go biblical patriarchy or you get cooked yeah like
01:07:14.540it's the complementarianism is not enough you can't give away half a principle like that's the
01:07:20.080thing whose principle wins that's the question will it be the principle that the rule of women
01:07:27.100is a curse and that in the nature of the woman she was not created to rule and what you get when0.98
01:07:32.540she rules is longhouse society or is it the case that your principle that their principle is0.81
01:07:37.840correct if you let them have the practice what do you have their principle just one because you're
01:07:45.440operating in accordance with their principle not your principle when i see i can see the temptation
01:07:49.660so this is uh another x post that i had commented on so margo martin who is the official white house
01:07:56.420account special assistant to the president she posted a picture about carolyn levitt of carolyn
01:08:02.380levitt it's caroline caroline it's caroline brian it's brian it's brian it's brian uh but she said
01:08:11.240this walked into press secretary uh carolyn levitt typing with one hand and feeding her son with the
01:08:18.440other we can we can put this post up and and she said super mom with like a blue heart and she's
01:08:24.740typing on a computer with one hand holding the baby with the other while the baby is
01:08:28.680you know eating out of a bottle and uh something in my soul just i saw another one that was like
01:08:37.020post this woman put up it was a picture of her at a big mega churchy you know fog and lights and
01:08:42.520stuff she's like when you're the worship leader but you're also a mom and she's got her big glam
01:08:46.900microphone and her you know like power suit on and she's rocking her baby in a car seat with her foot
01:08:52.160on the stage of the church while she's leading worship and i almost i almost fed posted but then
01:08:58.920i didn't fed post you didn't so but i did i retweeted i said but i did i did a full sentence
01:09:05.540you're like it's it's too tempting i took the bait i just said this is not a win now there's
01:09:10.540two things about this that the empathy mob doesn't understand number one when i repost this it's not
01:09:18.120even a personal attack on carolyn levitt but i know what a lot of conservatives right now would
01:09:22.860be thinking eric we just got our people in the white house why would you go offend them why would
01:09:30.540you go address this issue our people are in let's do everything we can to like and i've heard this
01:09:38.080like let's just set those issues aside for a little while here's the problem i think ethan
01:09:43.020holden pointed this out we were having a conversation about this a long time ago and
01:09:47.620he said, listen, this was actually a Doug Wilson principle. If you don't fly your flags out front
01:09:54.260all the time, this is who we are. Eventually what happens is you just throw the flags away.
01:10:01.300You're like, well, we'll, we'll believe those things, but kind of like, let's not put that
01:10:05.360out front. And then later you got a lady pastor in your church two decades later,
01:10:09.540and you've just given away all the principles. Here's, here's the dynamic too. This is another0.72
01:10:14.100halfway house to kind of tactic that I think plays into it is that you will, you know that
01:10:20.360you are being played by somebody else's principle that you're being conducted. Your orchestra is
01:10:26.020being conducted by their conductor. When you start throwing them a bone of like, we're not like the
01:10:31.840conservatives that you think we are. When you're like, no, no, no. Listen, all of our, our women
01:10:37.520don't wear dresses. They all wear pants. Our women don't wear head coverings. No, of course not.1.00
01:10:43.860Our women are all college graduates. You start giving, you start saying, oh, you have this misperception of us that we actually live according to our principles. Don't worry, we don't. And it's like, what you're trying to do is pacify them. Now I get what's happening is that they have this whole wild and crazy view of you.1.00
01:11:03.120Like, you know, people think that we're a crazy cult and that, you know, we hate all, you know, we hate gay people so much that if someone had to try to converse with us and they were clearly gay, that we would just like immediately commit violence or something like that.0.70
01:11:18.460And so you want to say, no, we're actually quite a warm community.0.93
01:23:19.920What is really concerning within our culture and the thing that we keep running into pastoring here locally is that you have an entire generation of women that have not been discipled.
01:23:32.400they don't know the basics of repentance because they've never been told that they've sinned0.63
01:23:39.120and so they don't understand that oh when they speak disrespectfully to their husband
01:23:44.120when they dishonor their husband in front of their children that that's actually a sin that
01:23:49.540they actually need to repent of and then submit to her husband when she does that and he needs
01:23:56.920to do the same thing but they're i mean husbands are told they need to repent you know to their
01:24:01.620wives, but the reverse often is not true. I mean, most of the women here, fine, but it's, it's just
01:24:08.700a cultural by-product that women are surprised when they're told that they sin other in, in ways0.99
01:24:14.540other than like we've noted before, not thinking highly enough of themselves. I just have self-esteem.
01:24:19.680I just, yeah, I have a high enough self-esteem. That's really my biggest problem is that I don't
01:24:23.820think highly enough of myself when in reality it's like, well, actually you're, you manipulate,1.00
01:24:28.720you nag you know you're not submitting to your husband you uh confront him in front of children1.00
01:24:35.300and you don't say thank you you know and you don't seem to appreciate him and you're actually1.00
01:24:41.640rising to the level of of trying to be the head of the house and trying to subvert his authority
01:24:47.660and they don't actually know how to repent of that a lot of times it's it's both orthodoxy
01:24:54.200and orthopraxy and so i think that's really the fruit that we have in a lot of the state of the
01:24:59.600churches and instead of dealing with it it's almost in the way of uh um i'm trying to remember
01:25:05.640i think it's silver chair with the uh headmistress of uh eustace and jill's school yeah where they're
01:25:12.980like we don't know what to do with her so we'll just promote her and she ends up being in parliament
01:25:16.700she's in parliament and so that seems to be ever after yeah exactly exactly and so that does seem
01:25:21.880to be what we have. We have, uh, a society that is ruled by women. I mean, just look at female1.00
01:25:27.320judges. You were Eric, you were talking earlier about, um, your wife and in the school and you
01:25:33.880needing to come in and actually not be manipulated by emotions and sob stories and, and, uh, by the
01:25:40.540children, because you would just say like, no, I don't really care. This is what's just, but then
01:25:45.240you have a whole class of judges that are supposed to be executing blind justice that
01:25:51.140are ruled by emotions and are easily manipulated that's a problem you have a whole host of
01:25:58.620political leaders and religious leaders that are being ruled by emotion when i i think the other0.98
01:26:05.140thing is it's not just feminism but you have to locate feminism for the bigger movement that it's
01:26:12.320in, which is this gay race communism, right? So this has happened at a national level in churches0.99
01:26:20.980as well, but at national levels where we have taken the 2%, the LGBT, the race identity people0.91
01:26:28.540who are hot and bothered, BLM types. We've taken all those people and you've essentially,0.76
01:26:34.580as Edwin Friedman says in his book, you've allowed the worst elements in society to rule.
01:26:41.500Now, I'm going to connect it to another situation that should help Americans kind of like, where does this head?
01:26:47.800So South Africa and Rhodesia, South Africa is still happening.
01:27:25.640They said they sit down in the Oval Office and Trump says, I want to show you some things.
01:27:30.580He dims the lights in the Oval Office and he begins playing video clips, brutal videos of South Africa's leaders calling for the killing of white South African farmers.
01:27:40.780and then he makes the guy watch the footage of the burial sites where they've had mass genocide
01:27:47.060of white people i think this is what you have to do you have to just keep going back to the truth0.99
01:27:54.000i don't care about your stupid rhetoric i don't care about your feelings let's talk about the1.00
01:27:58.740reality of where this leads and it's going to take friedman says this about a nation he says1.00
01:28:04.740if you can have it in families and churches you can have it in a nation that's right and what you
01:28:08.920need is just strong courageous leaders who said we're not doing that anymore no we're going to
01:28:13.840point at what's true even even you know back in the church example dan gave you know dan was
01:28:19.620pointing at we've probably had dozens of these kinds of things happen where a family comes in
01:28:25.040to the church maybe they move here maybe they start attending the church coming through membership
01:28:28.600and you know as often happens through the membership process it's like we're talking about
01:28:34.280norms and standards for households and what, you know, husband, what are your duties? Wife,1.00
01:28:38.900what are your duties? How are you doing? And, you know, all these things, trying to figure out how
01:28:41.620to shepherd them effectively, be able to give an account for their soul, which requires us to know,
01:28:47.320like, how are you doing in these areas? And maybe some things come up and they say, you know,
01:28:52.000I think we'd benefit from some marriage counseling. Can we sit down with the pastor?
01:28:57.060And they sit down with the pastor and they go through a bunch of their, you know, what's
01:29:01.340happening? What are the sins that are, that are taking place? And, and I, I don't mean to pick on
01:29:06.140ladies because I think Dan is right. I think that many of them grew up and never had the sensation
01:29:12.520or rarely had the sensation of being told what you just did was a sin. And you, you can't do that.
01:29:19.240Like that's, if you do that, it will destroy your household. Many of the men have heard that
01:29:23.980message in very particular ways, a hundred times, 500 times in their church experience.
01:29:29.700men stop looking at porn men stop doing this stop being passive lead your family read lead family
01:29:35.440worship they've heard that a million times and so you'll hear like okay describe to me a recent
01:29:40.100fight you had and they'll describe a fight and he says this is what happened and she says this is
01:29:44.700what happened you're like do both agree on the details yeah and then this is where it often
01:29:48.800becomes like a new sensation we go okay you know joe mr joe where did you fail okay here's three
01:29:57.160or five places you sinned. Here's what repentance looks like. Let's help you walk in that. And then
01:30:03.140you turn and she's nodding and she's like, yeah, totally get them. Let's go. And then you turn
01:30:08.080around and you're like, and Mrs. whatever, Nancy, Mrs. Jennifer, I don't know. And then here's the
01:30:18.320ways you sinned. And you're like, you were really disrespectful to your husband. Like you may not
01:30:22.980speak to your husband that way. That was wildly sinful and inappropriate. Like that thing you
01:30:28.200described, that was actually a perfect example of disrespecting and nagging your husband sinfully.
01:30:35.540And here's what repentance would look like for you and how you need to apologize and walk in
01:30:41.100repentance. And to their credit, I mean, a lot of time when this happens, both parties repent and
01:30:50.300things go well and they're counseled and they grow in holiness and enjoy in their marriage and
01:30:54.260things like that. But they'll, the women will say, I've heard this many times. No one's ever told me
01:30:59.940that. I actually thought I was completely right. I thought all of my responses were totally just
01:31:07.140justified because of the things that I thought were wrong with him. I thought that no one has
01:31:12.820ever told me and sometimes we're really offended at first and it takes some you know the word of
01:31:20.680god hammering against the hardness of heart for a little bit until it's like oh maybe i actually am
01:31:25.860part of the problem and that is just so representative to me of how um deeply ingrained
01:31:33.780the long housing of the christian world has been has gone well and even to i was reading a few
01:31:41.420marriage books recently from the reform camp and a lot of them are really good but one of the
01:31:45.940authors was saying something like you know even as you know god has purchased a bride in the church
01:31:53.040for himself so he gives her the word and so husbands need to be constant in encouraging
01:31:58.280their wives and telling them how beautiful they are and i and okay well that is true
01:32:04.620nourish and cherish, keep her warm. Certainly you want to not have an overly critical spirit
01:32:11.680in marriage. You do want to praise her for the good things that are happening. But I shared that
01:32:17.280and then I was kind of interacting with some thoughts and other people in our camp, at least
01:32:21.660who follow us on Twitter are like, yeah, no, like this is a huge problem because what you won't hear
01:32:27.140is, yeah, but also in that word, God has some pretty harsh things to say to his church.
01:32:31.220he calls her to repent there's exhortation there's rebuke yeah so i think even that for husbands
01:32:39.600most husbands are uncomfortable when we talk through things like how to lovingly but firmly
01:32:45.320correct your wife people like whoa whoa whoa so are you saying that you should you know divorce
01:32:51.560her because she burns the chicken i'm like it's it's the feminist meme like no so what you're0.75
01:32:58.960saying. So what you're saying is you can be a tyrannical jerk and she has to be perfect. And1.00
01:33:02.920you're like, also no. But I think it just shows that we are so uncomfortable even talking about
01:33:09.680what I would say is a biblical requirement for husbands to correct wives and sin. And what
01:33:18.340people don't understand is the reason most of our ladies are, especially if they've been here for0.96
01:33:23.540any amount of time, they're godly, they're mature, they take correction well. The reason that's1.00
01:33:28.500happening is because it's not foreign to them. No. Um, as you said, as pastors, we try to justly
01:33:35.980weigh a situation, deal with both parties. Uh, but, but also we have husbands who are like, babe,
01:33:43.280like you cannot be ruled by your anxiety. Yep. You cannot be ruled by your fears. Here's what
01:33:48.640we're going to do. We're going to, we're going to pray together. We're going to remember Philippians
01:33:52.000four, that when you're tempted to be anxious, we actually need to practice gratitude. Um, we need
01:33:58.180to be thankful to God, and we need to pray for our daily bread, and then the peace of the Lord
01:34:03.420will cover you. And so let's pray together. But you may not be fearful. Remember Sarah, who was
01:34:09.700not fearful, but she trusted the Lord. Let's encourage you on the one hand, but also there's
01:34:17.220correction in there. It's such a mercy when men will be men and women will be women. There's so
01:34:23.180much mercy and joy in that it's not harsh the tone of good masculine leadership of cultures and
01:34:32.860places where there are strong men doing their duty in these fronts they are not tyrannical
01:34:37.940they're not cultures where women are oppressed they're not cultures where children and women
01:34:43.260do poorly these are the cultures where everyone does well when you know men actually step up and
01:34:50.720in accordance with their nature as God created,0.77
01:34:53.940live out the norms that God gave for them
01:39:02.400he was doing a good job actually of not coming home and be like, here's how it is. Let me tell
01:39:07.420you all the ways you're wrong. But like, Hey, I'm reading this book. I really think these things are
01:39:11.880true. I want to work through them as a family. And they had daughters and sons that were involved.
01:39:16.240So they're working through the principles with them as well. I think being gracious to an
01:39:20.480understanding that what, like our positions, even we weren't born this way. We didn't like
01:39:26.620come out patriarchal um so it's been an adjustment for us and there's just so many times where we've
01:39:32.760had to say somebody will say well you said this what about this what about this application you're
01:39:37.940like wow that oh interesting yeah i'm gonna have to think more about that and it's one step one
01:39:43.240hard step at a time it's going through the next door of difficulty in our church history it was
01:39:47.900like like you said didn't start here but started realizing these are actually historic and true
01:39:54.200christian biblical principles and then you go okay and and one thing that's gonna have to happen is
01:39:59.380that that lady bible teacher in the women's ministry like we're just gonna have to can the1.00
01:40:04.300women's ministry so we're gonna have to fire the whole committee pretty much all those ladies are0.86
01:40:09.740gonna be out of a job because it's i'm looking at it going oh this is actually really bad like1.00
01:40:14.220this is all of the things all of the fruit of it is cattiness and control nagginess and it's all1.00
01:40:21.900It's, it's not helping the women become more godly women. It's not Titus two. When I look at what we were doing in women's ministry, and then I look at Titus two, they're not the same thing. And so we went, let's walk through that door. And it was painful. I mean, the hair blown back from your, from your head with the shrieking of anger and like, you don't value our gifts. And I mean, and it was like, it would have been easy to go, oh, okay, well, I guess I'm wrong.1.00
01:40:50.660like close that door back away slowly but you just have to go through the next door gently kindly0.96
01:40:55.980as a and that requires that you're convicted on your principles as friedman would say like you're
01:41:03.040a self-differentiated leader meaning you know what you stand for you know the vision you're
01:41:07.900convicted to your core about those things and then dan it's inevitably going to mean i know it has in
01:41:13.040the history of the church we're going to address public education we're going to address children
01:41:18.440in the worship service and you guys in one way went slow but in another way it was like
01:41:24.140pretty rapid compared to a lot of situations it felt slow to us but to the congregants i'm sure
01:41:29.840it felt very quick yeah you know because the change happened uh over a number of years and
01:41:35.120convictions that brian and i and the other elders had come to way before that and you guys by the
01:41:40.560way you guys are working out in your own marriages we all have uh i'll tell the story about dan's
01:41:47.160wife um i i was as men do i was ribbing dan about something i can't remember and we were like a
01:41:53.740family get together at your house and amelia said to me like in all sincerity she said dan
01:42:00.640is a very gentle husband and i was just thinking like wow like the feminists they that's the part1.00
01:42:07.460they don't get is like they assume it would have to be like tyrannical harsh domineering0.52
01:42:12.980but she was being dead serious in that moment of like, no, it hasn't been that way for me.
01:42:18.380He's gently led me through these things. And that can be true of the congregation as well. I'm
01:42:22.240assuming you guys were here for more of it, but yeah, definitely through the congregation. But
01:42:26.800as we know, like in our elders meetings, it's not gentle primarily. That's not the tone
01:42:32.020because that's not how men should operate. So men do need range. And that's why I keep coming back0.85
01:42:38.640to the idea, like as soon as you introduce a woman into an elders meeting, it's a different0.96
01:42:44.060tone. We can't have the straight discussion that we need to have as men in order to come to an
01:42:52.320agreement, to come to like-mindedness. The number of, I mean, Brian, you recall, it was years that
01:42:59.460we were discussing covenant theology and baptism in particular. I mean, the number of fights that
01:43:05.160we had they were friendly i mean i can't think of many that were we're not we have had unfriendly
01:43:10.640fights perhaps um maybe but but it just changes the tone and the demeanor yeah and so men need
01:43:18.800to have that that space and then also at home you need to be gentle with your wife you're commanded
01:43:24.100to treat her to condescend your strength to treat your wife as the weaker vessel and the thing is
01:43:30.520to some, you ask for summaries, but if you come to counsel, you know, for counseling, marriage
01:43:35.480counseling at Refuge Church, you would be surprised with how boring in some ways it is because we just
01:43:41.240opened the Bible and we're like, okay, let's read first Peter three. Let's read the duties of a0.97
01:43:46.140husband and the duties of a wife. How are you doing in each one of these things? You know,
01:43:51.000let's read, read Gouge. Here's some questions, you know, husbands, how have you actually
01:43:56.540understood the frame of your wife and have lived with her in a way that treats her as the weaker
01:44:03.720vessel? How have you actually done that? For a lot of people, I totally agree. Landing the plane
01:44:08.640on some of these practically, because we get this question a lot, is how important is my church?
01:44:17.400Like, what if I want to go in these principles, but my church absolutely doesn't? So there was
01:44:23.200a gentleman i think at right response asked ben and i that scale of one to ten how would you rate
01:44:27.360the importance of church and making sure you get to the kind of household that you want and uh we
01:44:33.120we didn't know each other's answers but i said i think i said 12 and he said well that's funny ben
01:44:38.400said 11 out of 10 so he didn't really take it seriously he didn't know but not enough dang
01:44:45.420but i like ben i mean that's really sad to hear when you think about that um i know a lot of i
01:44:50.460was in this position for a number of years where you're trying to aim at these principles,
01:44:55.780but none of the women in the church are, none of the pastors are.
01:45:00.220It ends up being subversive to your own aims and principles.0.97
01:48:16.500It takes courage to actually go to your wife and to address her sins.
01:48:20.640It takes courage to go to your pastors and address the sins that you're seeing in the church.
01:48:25.160And for pastors, it really takes courage to actually lead in a way to where you don't carve out this class of people that are sinless by nature, but instead you actually start addressing the sins.