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00:14:43.160the beard bundle at indigo sundry soap.com and subscribe for 10 off your order uh but it is
00:14:50.340kind of a good segue we're making a transition um into really longhouse content we are we're
00:14:57.460going to be talking about a lot about the longhouse uh so we have a number of episodes we've
00:15:01.380got queued up yeah we have a book coming up ryan we do eric on the longhouse people probably wonder
00:15:08.640why if you follow me on on x eric has been using the the longhouse trademark like religiously and
00:15:16.720annoyingly for a year yeah uh it's because of this this is why i may be like the toaster strudel
00:15:23.440girl where i'm like you can't just make a thing happen i've no i have no idea what that reference
00:15:28.240it's from mean girls in reference to i'm gonna be honest with you it's gretchen wieners okay i
00:15:32.040haven't haven't seen it yeah um but she tried to make the a word fetch that's so fetch she was
00:15:37.620trying to make it a thing stop trying to make fetch a thing yeah yeah i have a policy i don't1.00
00:15:42.200watch movies with women in them i don't either so pretty much i just watch master and commander
00:15:46.300yeah that's it it took me a second yeah and like a very very uh this lightly edited lord of the
00:15:54.520rings. Yeah, exactly. That's it. And we bring that up just because we want you to know how
00:15:59.340serious we are as people. Yeah, we are. Very serious. We're very, we're a tweed. We're tweed
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00:16:45.960Yeah, the tweeds, the tweeds, one thing about the tweeds is that they number us among their ranks.
00:16:50.880they do they're happy to name us yeah they love us i guess brian just just we're going to get
00:16:56.040into the appleton situation um and kind of what's going on there but how do you think it represents
00:17:03.040like why the long house because i think that many ways we're talking about this we'll get into the
00:17:09.920some of the chapter discussions what's in the book we'll talk about economics ecclesiastical
00:17:14.440political we'll talk about escaping the long house but we thought maybe to tee things off like we
00:17:20.220could also just show you we just be like look in real time here it is this is what's going on in
00:17:25.260the churches and yeah and so just your explanation like why is this so important that we address it
00:17:29.580this is one of my favorite uh examples of the longhouse recently not that i like what happened
00:17:35.800but because it's just so clear because one of the things about the longhouse is that the longhouse
00:17:40.220isn't just gynocracy it's not just ruled by women directly it's also a state of affairs where the
00:17:47.320instincts and norms that are feminized are in charge. So that even when men are technically
00:17:53.900ruling, they're ruling by enforcing feminine norms. And this is a great example of that,0.98
00:18:00.100where Pastor Appleton was not voted down by women. Like there were no women voting in the session or
00:18:08.380in the Presbyterian, the ruling that they've made. Or were there. It hasn't been appealed yet as we
00:18:14.200record this so i don't know exactly what the time maybe other stuff has come out since we recorded
00:18:18.000this but it was male other male pastors voted on this basically but what they were doing is they
00:18:24.240were functioning as the checker for the longhouse the gestapo for the longhouse saying basically oh
00:18:30.900women were upset we'll put a stop to that honeys we'll we'll put a stop to this guy we'll we'll
00:18:37.020get him like do you think do you think it's fair to say this is like tone policing writ large oh
00:18:41.800absolutely this is like cancel culture yeah because it's not going to be about like was you
00:18:47.000know he technically correct about russell moore's character or about any of these other people's
00:18:51.840character it wasn't what he said it was how he said it it wasn't that russell moore's not you
00:18:58.560know a great guy or a bad guy it's just like he used mean words he was kind of mean well it is
00:19:05.820interesting because in the prosecution and the documents that have been published there's never
00:19:11.020once a time where it's like we proved that what he said was false no it was just like look what
00:19:18.080he said obviously this is problematic and and to the longhouse norms you don't even need an
00:19:24.380argument beyond just showing a man being quite stern and insulting of a really bad person or
00:19:30.820doesn't even matter if they're a good person or a bad person yeah the the whole thing is meant to
00:19:35.060cause people to clutch their pearls yes and to freak out and say oh this is so horrible look
00:19:40.340look he's he's using mean mean words about people and it just shows that one of the realities in the0.76
00:19:46.620longhouse is that like one of the reasons it's so bad when you put feminine norms in charge of0.98
00:19:52.460things is because it's an inversion of the order that god ordained and appointed for the home the1.00
00:19:57.940church the commonwealth virtually everything he appointed that men would rule and that women would
00:20:04.260not. So when you invert that, except in women's ministries, but go on when you invert that bad
00:20:13.700things happen. And one of the bad things that happens is that certain good instincts about
00:20:20.900women when they're in their right lane, dominate and become bad. Like everything about what makes0.99
00:20:26.640a woman, you know, I'm not saying that I'm for this, but let's say like, why are women, they0.85
00:20:32.200gravitate to like teaching elementary school okay and they're kind of they're pretty good at that0.67
00:20:37.140like they teach elementary school and all the kids love them well it's because like when two kids get
00:20:42.000in a fight they're the woman steps in and she feels bad for the for the kid that's losing and
00:20:47.460she's like well you know johnny knock it off or everybody share your crayons yeah everybody share
00:20:51.940when one kid's like hoarding all the crayons it's like oh we need to share the crayons or
00:20:56.600you know when if a couple kids were in the in the let's say they're doing some game or whatnot
00:21:02.720and they're excluding two of the other kids the the the lady teacher would be like now kids let's
00:21:08.160let's include everybody but then the second you apply that to like let's say society all of a
00:21:13.800sudden you have open borders and communism everybody share your country share and hey
00:21:19.260stop excluding kids from your lunch table well oops and and that uh that instagram account
00:21:24.900Womptomp, he has a really funny clip about this. I don't know much about him ever, but I've seen
00:21:30.780this clip where he talks about some of this stuff. You know, you look at the Appleton example and to
00:21:37.940the Longhouse and the norms of the Longhouse, it doesn't matter if Pastor Appleton is using
00:21:44.680these kinds of words to say, we need to stop this wolf from eating sheep. The Longhouse looks at
00:21:51.720that and says but he was being mean he was being mean eric he was being mean yeah that actually
00:21:59.240was disturbing to me and so where like the i can't breathe thing where does it come from oh he's it
00:22:05.600looked bad he looked like he was being mean and you're like well they were just that poor officer
00:22:10.200derrick what was his name uh the word chauvin derrick chauvin and now he's in prison for like
00:22:15.680whatever i was gonna say george zimmerman's not george he's in prison for you know 10 000 years
00:22:20.900or whatever for literally doing what the the police academy trained him to do to restrain
00:22:26.200somebody breaking the law but to the longhouse they look in that but he was being really mean
00:22:31.440to that guy the guy was who was breaking the law for the tent for the millionth time that year0.63
00:22:38.360probably like we when you try to take even good feminine instincts that work really well in the
00:22:46.080places god ordained for them to work like in the family in the home and amongst children and then
00:22:51.280you for example put them in charge of a police department and a legal system yeah i think it
00:22:56.060was hannah rosen who said the legal system the rule of law will not survive um the basically1.00
00:23:02.660female dominance helen andrews yeah yeah and we'll talk about that uh in a later episode but
00:23:08.780the great feminization thesis um the things that we think of as like wokeness really came about
00:23:14.980about 2012 or so and following and that was the point when everything reached peak female dominance
00:23:20.920in terms of numbers um they've been you know 60 years at that point in the workforce and in a lot1.00
00:23:26.820of major institutions so it stands to reason that once they become dominant they start shaping hr
00:23:31.620departments and the codes of behavior i think it even paves the way for um 2020 yeah and everything
00:23:39.220that happened there that that was basically like the den mother covid karen writ large on society
00:23:44.620yep safety was the thing like i'll destroy your life over safety allegedly um it is interesting
00:23:51.460brian as we look at this we're kind of now going to take i guess a closer look at the ecclesiastical
00:23:57.880aspect of this with women's ministries i've posted about this before we've talked about it
00:24:03.380we've dealt with it in our church so let's start with actually just the the theory of it and then
00:24:08.540we'll move to practice but in theory why do we have a problem with erecting a sort of ministry
00:24:14.760in the church headed up by a woman usually women a lot of times associated with the elders or an
00:24:20.540elder's wife or something yeah where they're doing deductive you know bible study guides and working
00:24:26.440through teaching and stuff like that a lot of people will object even to that they say well you
00:24:31.640know women love the lord and women should be able to you know be immersed in the scriptures and
00:24:36.880also have authority and rule over the elder board you know like it's a slippery slope
00:24:41.400but but why just in that do we say ideologically we have a problem with that yeah and it's it's
00:24:47.420fundamentally because god appointed an office to do what you just described and it is the male
00:24:51.500eldership of the church and women are forbidden to hold that office both formally but also in god's
00:24:58.160act of creation he did not fit the woman for that so you know like abs ali best stuckey and0.93
00:25:04.800Jen Wilkin aside, like women who will say like, I could preach just as good as a man, but I'm,0.96
00:25:09.300you know, God told me not to, so I don't. But the thing is, no, he, no, you couldn't,0.98
00:25:12.780you couldn't because God didn't fit women for that duty. Yeah. Like dispositionally,0.99
00:25:17.560maybe some women are more masculine and less feminine in certain directions. And we could0.99
00:25:21.300argue about that maybe, but fundamentally the problem is that God already said, here is where
00:25:26.880doctrine is doctrinal instruction happens. Here is where doctrine is guarded and kept from error.
00:25:32.700here's where you know who's who's shepherding the church and it's the male eldership and god
00:25:38.120didn't just appoint male elders to shepherd and teach and instruct the male members of the church
00:25:43.280but the men and the women of the church so when you when you basically say but we need a
00:25:49.300you know the equivalent of like how in supermarkets you walk around and you see pink versions of every
00:25:55.720product it's just for marketing so they can charge more for them or whatever but you're like oh
00:26:00.280instead of a, you know, a razor that can shave hair from there needs to be a pink one for the0.83
00:26:06.000ladies, the Venus, the Venus. It's like, we need a Venus pastrix because a male elder couldn't1.00
00:26:13.460possibly understand the problems of a woman. So we need, you know, Deborah, we need a bunch of0.99
00:26:20.280Deborah's of course. And Deborah, what that means from the Bible is that women should be in charge1.00
00:26:26.080of almost everything because debra because debra what about jayel she was she was given some of the1.00
00:26:32.660best hospitality a person could give yeah some warm milk a spike through the temple i mean the
00:26:40.080normal like hospitality i think that actually to simplify it that really does get at the heart of
00:26:44.880the issue where you have all these women saying contrary to god's word that men male pastors can't
00:26:52.120shepherd women yeah right they they just can't do it that's simply not the case we need but we've
00:26:57.120heard this from jen wilkin for a long time um you guys you've told this story uh but you and
00:27:04.060lexi actually was it when you were part of sojourn um i think it was during that period it
00:27:09.800might even have been before i'm trying to remember it was a conference that lexi and i helped out
00:27:15.020with it was a women's conference and this was a long time ago even even there's things now that
00:27:19.560be like i wouldn't have done that now but we were helping with it i was speaking at the conference
00:27:23.740and uh lexi was involved as the editor of this magazine basically that it uh it was a women's
00:27:30.740magazine and we went there jen wilkin was also speaking and she just she gave up after one of
00:27:38.560the sessions like lexi and i were talking to her one-on-one basically we're just kind of hanging
00:27:43.940out and she said you know brian you really need to get ladies involved in your elders meetings
00:27:50.100like because they you need that perspective on the elder meeting level when so that they can1.00
00:27:54.400really coach and give a woman's perspective on things you need to have that um i can't lexi
00:27:59.600posted about it recently she she said some things even to lexi i'm trying to remember what it was
00:28:05.800well one of them at least i think on lexi's post she said was uh jen had encouraged her to like
00:28:11.160farm out her kids to like daycare and stuff. So that she could be more active in ministry.
00:28:16.900In ministry. Yes, absolutely. And it was like, even, even then, and we were like, still, I think
00:28:22.160much less long house aware at that point, we were always pretty dang conservative,
00:28:29.300but I would have said like, yeah, we're complimentary and that sort of thing.
00:28:32.720But even at that time we were like, this sounds really catastrophically wrong.
00:28:36.900something that's just really hitting me as like catastrophically wrong about this and really
00:28:43.000what's funny is it was from there that we we started to get much more like we need to think
00:28:48.500about this how do we how do we how do we approach women's ministry what is raising my like red flag
00:28:54.340about this what's given me the hmm like I'm not so sure about that and then eventually we're like
00:29:01.040oh, it's because the women's ministry is a quasi female eldership and whoever authorized it to
00:29:10.060women to do like inductive Bible studies in the church. It's, it's interesting. Um, I've had this
00:29:16.300at many actually just reformed, uh, churches, including the CREC where you'd have like a
00:29:21.320women's ministry. And I remember asking the pastors at the time, I said, you know, I just
00:29:28.560want to let's talk about titus two there's like a curriculum where women teach certain things
00:29:33.940to like older women they teach younger women for example how to love their husbands yeah but i
00:29:40.680remember saying to them i was like i'm confused like the last women's ministry event that was
00:29:46.280held at the church you had a woman teaching through the book of romans and i said i that
00:29:52.560seems to be a contra-biblical thing to do and you know we we talked through that and they said yeah
00:29:58.160we kind of agree but um here's the problem they said um you know the ladies wouldn't want to go
00:30:04.680to an event taught by the pastors yeah and it's just as you dug more and more the real issue was
00:30:12.180you had an elder's wife who had like divine somehow that it was her job god had commissioned
00:30:20.820her to like lead the women's ministry yeah and so i said okay well why don't we do this
00:30:26.320um i'm gonna go to a women's ministry event i just wanted and you guys should too as elders
00:30:31.980like you should go and you should sit and you should see what's being taught and there was
00:30:36.660like a revolt it was like we don't want men there this is for ladies only and i was thinking like
00:30:42.680well hold on my wife is going i would actually very much i was just a churchman i'd very much
00:30:47.500like to know what you know my wife was being taught yeah and and again it was like a revolt
00:30:52.440uh that the issue never got addressed um the elders were very skittish about it because it
00:30:57.940was like this whole thing of like we're going to be upsetting someone's wife and then eventually
00:31:03.920like women's ministry just ended they would rather end it than have like pastoral oversight on there
00:31:08.960which i think a lot of women's ministries would and then eventually just just for asking some
00:31:15.100questions you're eventually you know politely asked you know maybe there's a better church
00:31:20.000there's a great Rick Appleton quote or a tweet about this. I think he wrote this,
00:31:24.860but it's just a screenshot of some writing. So I don't know if it was him or someone else. He says
00:31:27.980seven good things, which young women should learn from older women, one to love their husbands,0.95
00:31:32.900two, to love their children, three, to be discreet, four, to be chased, five, to be homemakers,
00:31:37.920six, to be good, seven, to be obedient to their own husbands. And there's, and at no point in
00:31:43.680there, is it like systematic theology? And I took that personally. And I took that personally.
00:31:47.680No, I've heard women, even like complementarian ladies who have problems with Jen Wilkin, but then also have problems when we've taught about this, say things like, but it says to teach them what is good.
00:32:32.080could she theoretically teach a class on executive political leadership?
00:32:34.920I guess like is, I don't know, like it's just, it's absurd.
00:32:40.700If you say if good can mean anything and it doesn't get to be defined by the
00:32:44.320context of that passage is a soldier defending his country good then we need to teach women a
00:32:50.620room clearing course that's right close quarters combat yeah like is don't you think part of this
00:32:57.220though brian is what goes on in a lot of churches practically is that you have a lot of women
00:33:03.640and by the way a lot of these women don't want to talk about like submitting and obeying their
00:33:08.140husband but you have a lot of women who have a very feminist bent we've been in the long house1.00
00:33:12.620for a long time now and it's much easier rather than calling that out and saying hey this is1.00
00:33:19.320inappropriate sinful to some degrees depending on what it is this is it doesn't accord with
00:33:24.660scripture yeah we're going to confront this problem and then have a lot of screeching
00:33:28.680what they do is they say we'll build this is why i've called them theological halfway houses
00:33:34.300we'll make a middle space where it's like no you're not in the pulpit yeah you're not fully
00:33:40.220preaching but we'll give you all this basically male authority anyway yeah and there's a rule that
00:33:45.660we come across in the longhouse the book that we're writing that i think pertains here and it's0.97
00:33:51.120that anytime you try to appease the feminist intuition it will it will just devour everything
00:33:58.060like a monster don't do it you cannot appease it's like negotiating with terrorists no you just0.86
00:34:03.680you cannot do it no appeasing halfway houses they never work because they just become
00:34:09.160bulwarks or beachheads that feminism takes as the high watermark and then they push for more1.00
00:34:14.760yeah because the thing about it is you're still putting women in charge yeah and women are not1.00
00:34:19.640supposed to be in charge just to put it colloquially they're not supposed to be in charge0.52
00:34:23.600that's just the principle and so you know people want to carve that but well they can be in charge
00:34:29.200of you know like no no you just end the sentence there they and you just said they can be in
00:34:35.220charge there they can't and we're like well children have to obey their mother and father
00:34:39.200yeah like there are okay sure the mother has authority in her home to discipline the children
00:34:45.820absolutely but the mother is not in charge of the home the way that the husband is she doesn't have
00:34:52.400headship the way that he does yeah i've heard some of the you know it's been called lately like
00:34:57.300the feminist patriarchy camp where even though we refer to the wife as the ceo of the home
00:35:01.940and i'm like yeah that's not accurate no she has uh a you've called it like the oikos despot0.99
00:35:10.440well scripture calls it that but like i mean you've talked about it in that way um she has
00:35:15.540yes authority over the children but under the headship of the husband and father so even that
00:35:20.640is there's a delegated role of authority yeah she's his helper but that's you know that can
00:35:26.160be appropriate, is appropriate. But I think too, uh, it's really hard in our culture just to say
00:35:33.320to ladies, you're not to rule. And then now we move into kind of, that's the, some of the
00:35:38.440ideological stuff behind it, the philosophy, but then you get to the practical. It's one of the
00:35:43.040things we talk about in the book. It's, it's not enough. There's lots of cultural critiques where
00:35:47.420it's like, Hey, this is a problem. The great feminization, Helen Andrews talks about it,
00:35:52.080But nobody really wants to go to the point where where we go in the book and say women shouldn't rule in any institution.
00:36:00.960No, not the women's ministry that you carved out so she could rule, not the church, not the business, not the boardroom, not the school board, like this.
00:36:14.060No, she should not be like one of the rules that we we talk about escaping the longhouse in the book and rebuilding outside of the longhouse.1.00
00:36:21.880And one of the rules is just simply don't put women in charge of any, whatever you build, don't put women in charge.0.94
00:36:51.880Visit smallbizsirthrival.com slash kingshall to apply for a one-hour advisory call.
00:46:21.300do you want that in your body probably not like big is not always better yeah pruning is important
00:46:29.600and this is one of those aspects of pruning that the more um the more a thing is built into the
00:46:36.260structure of an institution the harder it is to get out yeah the more likely it is to blow up the
00:46:42.220institution altogether and so for some churches this would genuinely result in that church ceasing
00:46:47.580to exist or splitting seven different ways well and i think it you know if you look at the pca it's
00:46:52.200even hard at the denominational level because now you're in a situation where and this was also part
00:46:58.380of it like um he was preaching on titus 2 in a very direct way saying things that we've said oh
00:47:05.140yeah but this caused a huge problem simply repeating the apostle paul and telling wives
00:47:10.120to obey their husbands explaining and applying it explain and apply the passage by the way just as
00:47:15.260john knox and william gooch and the forefathers really of like a pca you know westminsterian
00:47:21.460reformed yeah the people who wrote the westminster confession of faith for just for example like they
00:47:28.340believed all these things yeah the wild thing to me too is is we look at the church now
00:47:34.060i i wish people could see yes it was a hard work it's been a hard work to maintain that we we don't
00:47:40.500do the long house institution stuff yeah we don't do it at new christian press we don't do it in our
00:47:45.560homes we don't do it in the church but the fruit of it now is it like you actually won't be fighting
00:47:51.660those battles at that level every year no and we we legitimately don't like i guarantee you like
00:47:58.260if you went to an elder's wife and was like hey you should teach a class she would go nope yeah
00:48:02.620like you should teach an inductive bible study on the book on the book of ruth though it's one of0.98
00:48:07.300the lady books like no no no is this a test like they would refuse to do it we'd be like yeah it
00:48:13.880was a test because there's no way and things are much healthier um you actually get the men this
00:48:19.180is something too i think in the church you hear the ladies crying about it in a lot of the mainline0.74
00:48:24.640mega churches where are all the good men well you created an environment that makes it unlivable
00:48:29.940right that's where they are that's so they're not there because you're in charge no when you
00:48:36.000have a longhouse, it will do one of a few things to the men. The men who stay and flourish there
00:48:42.180will do so by submitting to and bending to feminine norms. So they will be effeminate.0.93
00:48:46.840They'll be effeminate. Some of the men will try to stay and remain masculine and they will be0.94
00:48:52.020punished. They will be kicked out. They'll be run out of town. And then some other men will just
00:48:58.380leave voluntarily and they'll go do their own thing. And that was MGTOW. Men go their own way,0.52
00:49:02.920the red pill that aspect of the red pill movement a lot of those guys are just they'll okay fine
00:49:07.460we'll just go and we'll be and it doesn't always that doesn't mean it's utopia because a lot of0.95
00:49:11.180those men were directed by evolutionary thinking and pickup artistry and a lot of retarded stuff1.00
00:49:16.340but those are some those are kind of the options you'll either drive them out they will feminize0.99
00:49:22.280and become effeminate passive men because men were not designed to flourish in that model or
00:49:28.300they will go their own way and they'll just leave they'll voluntarily opt out and they'll say ah
00:49:33.960i'm gonna go do my own thing what do you think is going to happen long term you know we've often
00:49:39.300viewed the opc which you know tolerated amy bird uh the michael spanglers when he confronted it he
00:49:46.700was actually the one that got in trouble yeah all the daily no discipline has the general commons
00:49:51.520yeah no discipline that was ever handed out to like i don't know carl truman right um so the
00:49:56.540people who promoted rank feminism yes were never disciplined and yet this just like the pca the opc
00:50:03.680is supposed to be like the bastion of conservatism right yeah what does that say what do you think
00:50:08.240the perspective is prospectus long term for these denominations well there is a reason like look at
00:50:15.580the reformed church in america today and i mean like roll all of them together like any non-pca
00:50:20.140PC USA like what someone was sharing a bar or a pie chart recently on Twitter about this like
00:50:27.640what percentage of America is it you like almost can't see it in the pie chart it's basically
00:50:33.820doesn't exist so we think of the OPC and the PCA is like relatively large reform denominations they
00:50:39.820are tiny they are insignificant culturally they have almost no institutional power they are
00:50:45.520shadows of their former self, they're basically irrelevant to the country, like almost completely.
00:50:51.980The SBC is much bigger than any of them. The largest, I believe the largest Protestant0.99
00:50:57.360institutional denomination is the SBC. And even that is, it's more influential nationwide,
00:51:05.820but it's not that influential. It grows less. So when you look at, you know, this, like the
00:51:12.360vestiges of the PCA and the OPC that are left. And then you realize that they are also very
00:51:18.320long housed in their norms. You just, it's hard to imagine a future for those denominations where
00:51:25.080they continue to exist at all in anything other than a dwindling shadow of themselves. People
00:51:31.060were talking this week about the pastoral crisis. It's so, it's really hard for reform denominations
00:51:36.660to find qualified pastors to raise up and take, especially teaching elders, like pastors of the
00:51:42.000church. We're going to preach every Sunday and take over the church. And people are like,
00:51:45.480they're talking through why is that? And one of the reasons, I think Michael Foster pointed this
00:51:49.960out, but it was that the pastorate has become a low status profession where it doesn't have much
00:51:56.700prestige anymore to be, it's a low status occupation. People view it as it's basically
00:52:03.500kind of an unimpressive office, the men who hold, and why? Well, it's because for over a generation,
00:52:09.460we have selected for men in the pastorate who are basically men who are the best at pleasing women.
00:52:15.880And that is not a man who is inspiring to men or that other strong, masculine, successful men
00:52:21.860will voluntarily follow. And so then you get into this self-repeating cycle or self-amplifying loop,
00:52:28.840feedback loop, where those effeminate pastors and feminized pastors will then enforce feminine0.98
00:52:36.480norms on the church which further alienates drives out or kicks out masculine men which lowers the0.79
00:52:42.120pool yet again of qualified male elders who are the kind of men who would steer the ship or write
00:52:48.040the ship and and it's just this amplifying feedback loop and then it becomes lower and
00:52:51.940lower status to be a pastor because what impressive accomplished smart masculine man wants that job
00:53:01.260He doesn't. He's going to go pick the men who would have in this 16th, 17th, 18th centuries stepped into those roles.
00:53:08.820Some accomplished, intelligent men, higher IQ men on average that were very accomplished in their educational fields, but also the kind of men who were capable of leading men.
00:53:19.400Those men are going to go do other stuff.
00:53:21.820Yeah, they're going to go in business.
00:53:23.660Yeah, I also think, too, when you look at, you know, I went to seminary for a short time, but I was shocked how many women were there.0.97
00:53:31.080yeah students it's the only way these institutions are staying afloat yeah a lot of it too is like
00:53:37.100they're training youth group leaders yeah this is actually the real reason why a lot of the family
00:53:41.160integrated movement was attacked in a lot of circles is because it was a financial threat to
00:53:46.740seminaries because seminaries were getting a lot of funding for training youth group leaders
00:53:50.860yeah women and youth group leaders and women in the like counseling departments this uh we'll
00:53:55.420talk about it in another episode with pastor kevin griffin but the biblical counseling world1.00
00:54:00.540is a hot mess for the same reason yeah it's yep you have all these women like if you look at the0.99
00:54:05.460major acbc even the podcasts it's like all women talking about trauma and you're like okay well i1.00
00:54:12.480can tell you where that's headed uh where it already is it's already there you're in the long
00:54:17.780house yeah how many of the guys that i grew up with even taking courses from you know whether
00:54:22.820it's a Paul David Tripp or somebody like that, who now are like, you know, they're very much
00:54:28.100like Eric Mason, woke church guys. Well, I think that a lot of them realize, Hey, I have a lot of
00:54:34.540opportunities if I go in this direction of wokeness, because that's where the funding is.
00:54:39.320That's where the future life in the institution. And maybe we'll end with this, but I think there's
00:54:45.320a charge to men, like, what do you do? So we obviously face a lot of these realities throughout
00:54:52.000our ministry and in our lives. And you can either say, okay, I'm going to go live in the long house
00:54:58.480and I'm going to play by its rules. I sort of have this like refusal to do that. It doesn't
00:55:03.480seem like your vibe. It's like not, so to speak. Or you can do what we talk about, sort of a Jason
00:55:12.340and the Argonauts thing, where you say, what if you got a band of men together and you said,
00:55:16.900we're not doing that. Like we're not playing that game. We're going to build institutions
00:55:21.440on our own territory as best we can and it has done a really weird thing where over time0.92
00:55:28.660guess who you find coming to your church guess who you find in your community like other men
00:55:34.640who think that way masculine men and feminine women and because they still exist that's the
00:55:39.420other beauty is like the women are such a glory when it's like i trust the men in the community
00:55:47.280you guys are going to do the right thing we're behind you and they're not pulling the strings
00:55:51.240from behind the scenes no they're not like conniving to because a lot of church even
00:55:56.160again you find this over and over even very conservative type of denominations and networks
00:56:02.060when you start peeling back the layers you know you often find it in the middle pulling levers
00:56:06.820two or three women who are often pastor's wives and you discover that their sensibilities are
00:56:14.340driving a lot of one thing in particular and that is the fears of that church or denomination
00:56:19.960it's actually things that they're terrified of yes it's actually wild i was talking to a
00:56:24.320older friend who's seen a lot of these movements come and go and we were talking about like the
00:56:30.320ati gotherdite camp and some of the like doug phillips kind of reformed baptist patriarchal
00:56:36.540camps he said it was really weird because you watch them and i've experienced some of those
00:56:41.200camps as well they're patriarchal right like all about chest pounding on biblical patriarchy
00:56:46.660and then you go to a lot of those camps and who's actually pulling the levers is the women a lot of
00:56:52.400times it's women it it is the women um and that's why i think too like as we've thought okay how do
00:57:00.320you actually just build the real thing biblical patriarchy through and through zero apologies
00:57:04.900how do you actually build it number one you have to wrestle with principles number one number two0.92
00:57:11.640i think this is a huge point you make in the book you have to be resistant like flame retardant to0.85
00:57:18.460the hysterics of women you have to be willing to watch women cry yes both sexes and say ma'am i'm0.95
00:57:25.960still not going to burn down civilization because you're crying including the constituent parts of0.97
00:57:32.400civilization like this church or this school or this business or this home or whatever it is.
00:57:38.500You just have to say, man. And there's something that the red pill guys actually talked about a
00:57:43.900lot. And they were getting at something by way of nature that's very true and important in this
00:57:50.040discussion. And it's frame. They call it frame, maintaining frame, which means not having your
00:57:58.560values or what you consider most important or the direction you're going or the things you're
00:58:03.400going to focus on or what you're going to give your strength to be directed or influenced by
00:58:06.960women. You're going to maintain your frame so that if a woman is hysterical, you're still like,0.65
00:58:11.240it doesn't change what I'm for and what I'm going to accomplish and what I'm going for.
00:58:14.380And what's wild is that when men, and these guys noticed this in the red pill world,
00:58:19.240just by observation of nature, that when men lose frame and start living to try to please women,0.54
00:58:25.460what's funny about it is that women despise them.0.90
00:58:52.880What's crazy is that women find themselves, even the women that don't like those men, they go, there's something in them that want, that is attracted to it and that they like it. And it's because God designed for the man to lead and to rule. And so there is deep calls out to deep. There is something in the female nature that when she sees a man leading like that, she goes, man, I hate him, but I want to, I want to listen to him.
00:59:18.700Yeah. It's why really masculine men some of the time, and I'm not recommending that men do this banking on it. Sometimes they go and really masculine man goes and finds herself a woman who thought she was a feminist who wanted a career. And then five years later, she's got four kids and she's like wearing dresses. And yes, sir. Like, and why she was responding to his leadership.
00:59:37.820yeah so men really fundamentally and that's what this whole series is going to be about we're going
00:59:42.540to embark on in the next episodes of the king's hall talking about some of these important you
00:59:47.600know tectonic issues related to the long house the rise of the long house who architected the
00:59:52.240long house what it's done in the economy and the church and the sports field and all these areas
00:59:57.200of life and what to do about it and you're going to find over and over that when we repent simply
01:00:03.620repent and say, oh, we're not going to try to manage the longhouse anymore. We're not going
01:00:09.340to try to appease the longhouse. We are simply going to look the longhouse in the eye and say,
01:00:13.740no, thank you. I'm going to obey God. That God really will bless it. Things really will change.
01:00:20.180It will be painful. You will lose a lot of people. A lot of people will hate and revile you,
01:00:24.800but God loves to bless it when people do hard, difficult, courageous repentance
01:00:31.300in, in the context of a world that has been absolutely flaunting his authority as the
01:00:37.300father over all of the house of creation for a long, long time. Yeah. I love it. Uh, there's a
01:00:43.280quote that we share in the book. I think it's in chapter two from Anthony Esalen. Oh yeah. But he
01:00:48.120says when culture and Western civilization is at this point, when culture is faced with oblivion
01:00:53.060or repentance, you repent, you repent. And that's where we're at. That's where we're at. I mean,
01:00:57.080feminism will be, and again, going back to things we said before, like it doesn't matter what the1.00
01:01:02.380institution, but the legal system will not survive. The West will not survive the rule of women. It1.00
01:01:07.520will not. The church will not survive the rule of women. Nope. Nothing will. And so you have to1.00
01:01:13.060choose. Are you going to go into oblivion or are you going to repent? No matter how hard it is. No
01:01:17.080matter how hard it is, because I would, and the fact is not everybody will succeed, but I would
01:01:20.840rather go down swinging. Yeah, I think there's a glory just tying a knot on everything. Even with
01:01:27.460Rick Appleton, we've found this often in our own story. There's a glory of being hated when you're
01:01:34.920right and you're standing for a righteous cause. And the Lord saying, no, I'm actually going to
01:01:39.540take that guy, like maybe a Gideon. You remember the first thing Gideon does, the Lord commands
01:01:43.920him is like, burn your father's altar in the public square. And so he's like, I'll do it at
01:01:48.580night, but, but he does it. He does it. And it's funny because that actually that first act of
01:01:55.480repentance is what the Lord, it's a test. And then the Lord says, okay, I'm going to use you
01:01:59.980for greater things. Yep. Here would be my charge to a lot of the men listening. There's a lot of
01:02:04.080guys who are in longhouse situations and this is sort of the calculus they run. Well, I know it's
01:02:10.040longhouse today. Yep. So I'm going to lay low. I'm not going to rock any boats. And later when I'm
01:02:16.500charge, then for the very first time in my life, I will be courageous. Really? That's wild. Tell
01:02:25.240me more. Yeah. And what I would say to these guys, if you're not courageous today, you won't
01:02:31.220be tomorrow. No, you're, you're, you're exercising the muscle that is going to get stronger. And if
01:02:36.240it's cowardice, then the muscle of cowardice gets bigger. Yeah. If it's courage, then the muscle of
01:02:40.500courage gets stronger. And that's just how God made the world. But by the way, it's not that
01:02:45.940god won't deliver his people he will deliver his people it just won't be through you yeah
01:02:50.120and and so i think for a lot of guys like i understand because i've talked to so many people
01:02:55.220i understand the calculus i was there too like hey if i remain in this denomination
01:03:00.580and i keep pushing on the issues that i'm pushing on i won't have a job but what i said was that's
01:03:09.360fine i'll go make money some way else in a different a different sphere a different economy
01:03:15.600i'll go do it there and then i'll come back and say the same things to the church anyway and then
01:03:22.160when they say we're gonna fire you you can't and you say okay i already fired myself i already got
01:03:27.460fired oops i already got canceled from this environment yeah but i do think we need more
01:03:32.420courageous people to to make those stands and i think people will find too whether it's uh you
01:03:37.820know reverend appleton or whatever people will find you'll start to discover it's not as scary
01:03:42.700as you think it was no why do you want the approval of people you don't like and they don't
01:03:46.900like you yeah that whole fence riding thing like do you want to respect yourself at the end of the
01:03:52.080day just like don't get kicked out for no reason but if it's if you have to choose between getting
01:04:00.620kicked out or being faithful get kicked out i remember it was a it's a scots irish thing
01:04:09.100but there was a guy who was buried and it's got to be like Virginia or