00:04:02.900In April of 1917, as European powers collided in an explosive powder keg of events,
00:04:15.500Woodrow Wilson, President of the United States, went before Congress to ask for a declaration of war.
00:04:21.460In his speech, he said that the U.S. must, quote,
00:04:24.480fight for the ultimate peace of the world and for the liberation of its peoples,
00:04:28.660the German peoples included, end quote.
00:04:30.840Of his ambitions, Wilson said, quote, the world must be made safe for democracy, end quote.
00:04:37.780And so, to make the world safe for democracy, Wilson would enlist young American men to fight what Pat Buchanan and others have called the Great Civil War of the West.
00:04:47.560They were not fighting to protect American interests at home or to repel a foreign invader.
00:04:52.900Instead, the U.S., as it would for more than a century, began patrolling the world on behalf of democracy.
00:04:59.040however nebulous that claim actually is.
00:05:01.620As a result, 11 million men would die in the bloody trenches of Europe during the First Great War.
00:05:07.860Nearly 120,000 of those were U.S. servicemen.
00:05:11.520Just a short time later, 405,000 American men would die in the Second World War.0.63
00:05:16.760In our time, it would be the Bushes, Clintons, and Obamas
00:05:20.160who would involve the U.S. in wars that would, as Wilson dreamed, make the world safe for democracy.
00:05:26.700As opposed to an America First brand of nationalism,
00:05:29.860Wilson was an early and proud champion of what would become known as either
00:05:33.660the post-war consensus or the liberal international order.
00:05:37.960This term, post-war consensus, has been used quite frequently on acts,
00:05:41.900especially by those on the dissident right who seek to critique the ideology of the ruling elite
00:05:47.520who have shaped America since World War II.
00:05:59.900The post-war consensus refers to the world order that emerged after the world wars.
00:06:05.340Its overarching goal is to achieve and maintain world peace through disarmament and interstate cooperation.0.55
00:06:12.280This, in turn, will make it possible to achieve the kind of international prosperity and progress previous generations could only dream of.0.74
00:06:20.200The post-war consensus simply is the liberal international order in its ideology, language, organization, and management.
00:06:29.020It represents a rejection of true national sovereignty, multi-polarity, and great power politics under the law of nations.
00:06:36.940It disparages and banishes the political art and replaces it with corporate management.
00:06:41.960Citizens of specific nations and their natural affections for their unique ways of life are swapped out and forced to become interchangeable global units in a worldwide consumerist economy.
00:06:54.360The development and growth of intelligence and security agencies and organizations aid the liberal overseers in managing friend and foe alike through information and technology control, clandestine espionage, and covert disruptions and deadly strikes.
00:07:10.000unquestioned loyalty to the state of Israel, the fear of anti-Semitism and a wildly improbable
00:07:16.340Nazi resurgence, and the redirection of nationalist fervor onto a Zionist state
00:07:21.840rather than a Christian one buttresses the liberal international order's claims to be the defenders
00:07:28.220of humanity. Finally, the liberal world order relentlessly promotes its moral legitimacy
00:07:33.860through an endless diatribe on faceless human dignity and sweeping human rights
00:07:39.300by presenting itself as an unblemished force for good,
00:07:51.340After two world wars, elites, led by the newly ascendant Americans,
00:07:56.160blamed the wars on what R.R. Reno has called
00:07:59.020the strong gods of nationalism and religion.0.68
00:08:02.840The man who would be held single-handedly responsible for the Second Great War would be, of course, Hitler.0.81
00:08:08.980He would become the apotheosis of evil, perhaps the most famous villain in human history.
00:08:14.760According to historians and politicians who wrote after the war,
00:08:18.080any form of strong nationalism based in the natural affections for people in place or blood and soil
00:08:24.480would necessarily mean the return to the death camps of Auschwitz.
00:08:28.160And so, led by Wilson and later FDR, global leaders would adopt a mantra of never again.
00:08:35.260The new liberal order that emerged would be known for its antis, anti-fascist, anti-totalitarian, anti-colonialist, anti-racist, and anti-Semitic.
00:08:46.580What they intended to banish was a whole host of strong loves that included natural affection for family, kin, and fatherland, as well as the faith that built Christendom.
00:08:56.500This was, as Renault points out, largely an extension and culmination of the revolution that began in France in 1789.
00:09:05.560In this new consensus, the Western tradition was blamed for all the evils in the world,
00:09:10.660and so it had to be purged and replaced by the relentless pursuit of openness, disenchantment, and the weakening of these loves.
00:09:19.040Borders became as porous as the boundaries separating men from women.
00:09:23.540From the Academy to the pages of the New York Times,
00:09:26.780the key buzzwords would become diversity, multiculturalism, and inclusivity.
00:09:31.780What most conservatives fail to see is that the liberal order they so much love,
00:09:37.020the one that protects their sacred democracy,
00:09:40.040is actually what gave rise to the wokeness and CRT and intersectionality they claim to hate.
00:09:47.360What emerged, thanks to men like Karl Popper,
00:09:49.940was the idea of an open society with its emphasis on toleration
00:09:54.260and the fluidity of truth, borders, or natural distinctions.
00:09:58.600The order of the day would become a kind of secular pluralism
00:10:02.740that worked as a solvent to break down strong loves.
00:10:06.840Since historic Christianity, traditionalism, and nationalism
00:16:12.200and interventionist wars rage on in the name of democracy.
00:16:16.420Though we'll say more in future episodes,
00:16:19.000one of the central tenets of the post-war liberal order
00:16:21.960is that nationalism must be crushed at all costs,
00:16:25.220except for the ethno-state of Israel, which must be championed at all costs.0.77
00:16:30.540When it comes to U.S. foreign policy, for example,
00:16:33.260Israel is always a special friend to America that must be supported without question.
00:16:38.240AIPAC, the insanely well-funded Israeli lobby, works hard to control Congress
00:16:43.440while any detractors are immediately tarred and feathered as anti-Semites.
00:16:48.200After the Hamas attacks in October of 2023, Glenn Beck said that,
00:16:52.500He promptly wrote a letter to Benjamin Netanyahu requesting Israeli citizenship for himself.
00:17:04.460Ben Shapiro, meanwhile, interviewed British conservative Douglas Murray,
00:17:08.140who said that Israel is, quote, the core of Western civilization.
00:17:12.500Western civilization could not survive the destruction of the Jewish state
00:17:15.980because it would be, among much else, the cutting away of the whole tree we're on,1.00
00:17:20.400and western civilization would die. Not just the west, but even America could not live without the
00:17:26.480Jewish people. Could America survive if the Jewish people were no more on its watch, or everybody was1.00
00:17:32.140forcibly deported from the Holy Land? Come on, of course not. End quote. Zionism, it turns out, is a0.94
00:17:38.920key component of the post-war consensus orthodoxy. Crenshaw explains why, quote, the love of one's
00:17:45.040own and attachment to one's people, history, customs, and national life cannot be entirely
00:17:50.840squashed. It needs an outlet. The outlet is the affection foreigners show toward the Israeli state
00:17:56.700and the destiny of the Jewish people. Their prosperity, freedom, and destiny are our
00:18:02.780prosperity, freedom, and destiny. We see this in the 20th century invention of a Judeo-Christian0.88
00:18:08.380vocabulary and conceptuality, meant to tie the fate of America to Judaism, erase America's uniquely
00:18:15.880Protestant history and founding, and to unite America's fractious religious sects against any
00:18:21.920common enemy such as godless communism. Israeli nationalism represents the antithesis of European0.85
00:18:28.460and by extension American nationalism that sought to destroy the Jews. Under the liberal0.82
00:18:34.180international order, Israel alone is allowed to have an ethno-nationalist state and all other
00:18:39.940peoples must repress their own nationalist feelings and channel them toward unwavering
00:18:45.080and obsequious support for Israel. Only in this way can one truly prove that they are not an0.58
00:18:51.100anti-Semite or a neo-Nazi, end quote. For most of us, the post-war consensus or liberal international
00:18:58.680order, has been the assumed position we've all been catechized to believe. Few give it much
00:19:04.660thought. It just is. The founding myth of the post-war consensus is deeply rooted in World War
00:19:11.360II, a story its proponents tell in a black and white fashion. It demands, in fact, a simplistic
00:19:17.200version of history. Hitler is unquestionably evil in every possible way. Churchill is unquestionably0.95
00:19:24.100unqualified hero in every possible way. Recently, I crowdsourced the folks on X to formulate a clear
00:19:31.340definition of the post-war consensus. We'll discuss that more in this episode, but there are
00:19:36.720at least seven key summary components of the post-war consensus. First, there is a black hat,
00:19:43.160white hat meta-narrative about the Allies and Axis powers. Second, the post-war consensus is
00:19:49.280inherently anti-nationalist. Third, Christianity had to adopt the new and supporting theological
00:19:56.040apparatus to prop up the post-war consensus. Fourth, Westerners were discouraged from
00:20:01.700reproducing. Fifth, the rise of global militarism and the security state. Sixth, globalist economics
00:20:09.180and the welfare state would dominate. Seventh, and finally, Westerners were forced to adopt
00:20:14.340universalized cultural principles. For example, the assertion that America is an idea, not a
00:20:20.400people in place, and therefore anyone can become an American. In this episode of the King's Hall
00:20:25.980Podcast, we'll discuss the post-war consensus, why we think it's dying, and why we think that's0.82
00:20:32.060actually a good thing. Out with the weak gods that have destroyed the West, and in with the0.59
00:20:37.600strong gods that built the first Christendom. The King's Hall Podcast exists to make self-ruled men
00:20:43.420rule well and win the world. Well, gentlemen, welcome to this episode of the King's Hall
00:21:01.360podcast. We have a few wonderful guests with us today. Number one, the apotheosis of madness,
00:21:09.760ryan survey wow i mean other than the ironic way you said it there's a high compliment
00:21:15.740i was trying to be i was trying to be like highfalutin like you use the word apotheosis
00:21:20.660sounded like a man whose name would be nigel hello my name is nigel yeah there you go like
00:21:25.280maybe nigel wrestles crocodiles which is probably true of dan burkholder there are many things that
00:21:30.800are true about me but i don't think that's one of them you should just own it okay yes you are
00:21:35.920my pseudonym is nigel and i'm a very intelligent british man you are the croc hunter
00:21:42.720what was the dude's name i can't believe crocodile dundee no steve irwin
00:21:50.420you are the american version of steve irwin wow thank you except with opposite personality and
00:21:58.300i don't wear shorts which is the least white boy summer thing you absolutely should he rocked those
00:22:04.040like five inch inseams while he was hunting those crocs and he was so real for that he was so real
00:22:09.620for that so real for that uh we are so real for this brian we're so we're like smoother than
00:22:17.400butter on a muffin with our transitions yes we're smoother than vegemite on a piece of toast
00:22:22.420if you will uh and one of the smooth things that we do brian is we talk about the pwc a lot yeah
00:22:27.940that's what we do it's one of our things it's our entire personality now it well maybe maybe but
00:22:34.420this thing uh this topic of the post-war consensus we've also uh borrowed a phrase that ben crenshaw
00:22:40.260was using an american reformer the liberal international order that's the posh way of
00:22:44.440saying that's very posh but this among all other things seems to upset and ruffle the feathers
00:22:51.040of particularly like the evangelical establishment and so i want to you know if you're a neil
00:22:57.800Shenvey like Neil doesn't like this other unnamed people don't like this being accused of being
00:23:04.340part of the post-war consensus in particular is seen as a bad thing yeah so I just want you to
00:23:11.600unpack in the beginning Brian why do you think there's so much contention over the post-war
00:23:17.320consensus yeah because it's certainly not like a discussion you just have and people are like oh
00:23:21.700that's interesting let's think about that no it's so what you're running into when you run into
00:23:27.480push back on the post-war consensus as soon as you start to describe its um chief the chief
00:23:33.420tenets of the post-war consensus what you're running into are the default factory settings
00:23:38.560of the american mind especially for anybody that grew up in the 50s 60s 70s 80s 90s and all like
00:23:45.460it's the default factory settings you leave the the hospital with this software beginning to be
00:23:52.800programmed into your mind yeah and and so it's things like the innate goodness of democracy as
00:23:58.600an absolute good political ideal um think about the if you were to just poll the average american
00:24:04.880and say should all nations be democracies and most americans would have a default factory setting
00:24:10.880that's like of course democracy is the highest political ideal it's it's an uh unqualified good
00:24:17.240And therefore, we are right. Think about how this justifies things like global warmongering. We are right to go into other nations, topple their leaders, and then attempt to impose democracy on them like we've attempted in throughout the Middle East.
00:24:33.420You could think of the Zionism issue. One of the reasons that the Israeli ethnostate is seen as such an unqualified good is that, well, it's the only bastion of democracy in the Middle East, of our democratic, liberal, modern nation.0.79
00:24:52.020So whenever you run into the factory settings of a people and you start saying, hey, by the way, that's not actually true. You're, of course, going to get pushback. It's much deeper than that. But I really think that's kind of the simplest way of thinking about it is just you're going against the software programming we've downloaded.0.90
00:25:12.140now one of the important things to see is that this programming is extraordinarily novel
00:25:18.540um like we said in the cold open it really is the of the the final outworking it is the
00:25:24.780apotheosis of the french revolution thinking it was modern liberalism in the french revolution
00:25:32.260yes it was it was definitely inchoate in the french revolution listeners like dan could you
00:25:37.120explain they've been making fun of me using the word inchoate all morning so well i listened to
00:25:43.820you say it multiple times and then finally i asked the question i was actually thinking which was
00:25:49.300what does that mean i thought it meant something like incoherent it actually means eric in seed
00:25:54.920form so the beginnings of the ideas the root of right of the post-war consensus actually
00:26:02.000is found in the french revolution that's what it means can you actually can we can we expound on
00:26:07.560that like how because a lot of people uh reno in his book return of the strong gods highly recommend
00:26:13.840yeah he makes the comment that a lot of historians have actually seen they've called it the long
00:26:19.26020th century that began in 1789 with the french revolution so so i guess brian if you want to
00:26:26.280start. But why would that be true? Yeah, let's let's unpack that a little bit, because when you
00:26:31.500think about the two polls that we're talking about with the postwar consensus, this liberal
00:26:36.800international order that is a default software setting of modern Westerners, the the other side
00:26:43.660of the this continuum is would be things like nationalism, monarchy, strong nationalistic
00:26:51.920leaders with strong borders, strong cultural ethos, a particular people being shaped by and
00:26:58.560in a particular place that have self-protective laws and customs. They're not an open society,
00:27:05.240Karl Popper. They're a closed society. You might come and trade and merchants might come in and
00:27:11.680you might visit, but you can't become a Sicilian if you are not a Sicilian. You can't become0.96
00:27:18.500a german or a japanese a native you can't become filipino just because you travel there0.91
00:27:25.640and each one of those nations would have been in a stephen wolfian sense they would have been
00:27:30.600acting in their own national interest they're acting in their own national interest most most
00:27:35.300often for their conception of their highest good which will include i mean take japanese nationalism
00:27:41.360like we're talking about what they would view as their highest spiritual and earthly good
00:27:45.980just according to buddhism and right what did you say sushi sushi that's the extent of air
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00:32:03.440But when you look at something like the French Revolution, Liberté, Egalité, Liberty, Fraternity, they're destroying particularity, hierarchy, monarchy, national, strong leaders.
00:32:19.380they're destroying that and making a claim that is a moral and political philosophical claim
00:32:25.640that the people generally in an egalitarian way ought to be in charge. And then that those people,
00:32:34.480when you start to remove that particularity and monarchy and strong loves and closed society and
00:32:40.000things like that, that fundamentally all of the peoples everywhere are totally compatible and you
00:32:45.960can just mix and match at that point and you could end up having something like a globalist
00:32:51.640democratic order where all nations begin to look very similar and adopt all of the same kind of
00:33:00.100ideas from their moral order their political philosophy on down the french revolution is one
00:33:06.600of the first major salvos against all of those strong loves hierarchy monarchy nationalism
00:33:14.560in favor of something like what we see today, open borders, open society, egalitarian democracy.
00:33:21.500Would you agree that the world, particularly the world before the French Revolution,
00:33:27.900was particularly shaped, what we would call traditionalism, it was particularly shaped by
00:33:33.040the Christian moral order? Yeah, very much in the West and in the East as well in different ways.
00:33:39.760I mean, and we've talked a lot about that in our Crusades type of like Byzantine versus the West, but it's historically uncontroversial to note that the nationalism that the various nations of Europe on the continent, as well as England since the 400s, was certainly shaped by the Christian faith.
00:34:03.480And what the Christian faith was able to do is assert kind of two things at the same time that gave the possibility of harmonious international cooperation without losing distinction, which is that in a spiritual sense, in the kingdom of God, there is neither barbarian, Scythian, slave or free.
00:34:25.240So in the kingdom of God, the Christian church, it is genuinely the peasant, the poor slave peasant stands in equal footing in terms of his status as a royal priesthood with the king of the nation before God in the kingdom of God.
00:34:44.580However, at the same time, Christianity does not erase earthly distinctions. It actually glorifies, perfects, and brings them to their fullness, returns them to their creational order, to their nature in a glorified way.0.77
00:34:59.820And so that allowed for two things to carry on at the same time. You could have beautiful particularity of nations and loves and customs and culture. You could have hierarchy throughout a society that was not inherently unrighteous just because it was hierarchy.
00:35:15.980And you could also have this superseding or ultimate or heavenly or kingdom of heaven sense in which there was a way of understanding and affirming human dignity and all of these other very Christian concepts that lead to legal and ethical and cultural implications in a society, even politically on Earth.
00:35:39.200So what you get with the LIO and the post-war consensus and the French Revolution on is, we talked about it a little bit in the cold open, but one of the things needed to justify that is a novel theological apparatus that collapses those two kingdoms together and basically leverages the kingdom of heaven status to erase the earthly distinction.
00:36:03.980And this is what egalitarians do with sex. It's what egalitarians do with communism. It's what egalitarians do with all sorts of things. Well, now the post-war consensus is just a working out of that principle when it comes to nations and peoples.
00:36:20.700Yeah, it's really interesting. I think that's great. One of the things that Reno talks about, Dan, is this push for openness, disenchantment and weakening. And he says in particular that secular pluralism, which is found in the liberal order, but this secular pluralism acts as a solvent to break apart strong loves.
00:36:40.480So when you think about even the way that, you know, somebody like Russell Moore 10 years ago with the ERLC was saying things like, yeah, it's great.
00:36:49.700We want to help fund the building of mosques in America.0.89
00:36:53.720You look at the framework of how a lot of Christians today have been trained to think according to the liberal order.0.52
00:37:00.900And then what Brian said, you needed a whole new theological apparatus to support that new way of thinking.
00:38:58.900And I think that's definitely one of the aims in this, um, in this like post French revolution
00:39:06.780world is that how do you actually attain world peace?
00:39:10.100Well, if you make everyone, your countrymen, everyone, your family, everyone, your brother,
00:39:15.940then what's there to fight about because you actually don't have any will you don't have any
00:39:21.220love you don't have any identity and so there's no there's no will to exist it fundamentally
00:39:27.820destroys the ability to uphold a moral order you have to replace a part because a moral order
00:39:33.700must and by definition say that there are bad people doing bad things and that they are not
00:39:39.580allowed in this society doing those things what we've done is we've replaced them with this moral
00:39:44.760order of there is no bad thing. There is no preferences are, are gods. You can do and be
00:39:50.200whatever you want. And it leads to the kind of nonsense that we all heard growing up of like
00:39:54.740this, this whole idea of, you know, now I may not agree with your love to bugger other man,0.97
00:40:02.620but I'd, I'd fight to the death for your right to bugger other man. Right. And that's seen as0.94
00:40:07.860like a moral good. Yeah. And actually that guy is stupid. If he's, you're willing to die in a war
00:40:14.400for the right to have gay sex like what what well that was seen as a positive like the only0.99
00:40:21.660evil you could commit was to violate the globalist post-war consensus yeah that's one of the0.98
00:40:27.820insanities about this novel christian so-called theological apparatus is the radical individualism
00:40:35.800that has to exist within it so you saw this even obama speaking i think in egypt where he's talking
00:40:42.800about how muslims and christians basically worship the same god there was a recent x post that
00:40:48.480somebody had created with dennis prager and he was like you know jews and christians we basically
00:40:53.100have the same core values uh dan watching your face during the cold open reading when i was
00:41:00.820about to throw something i know i was shapiro and the guy's talking about how israel is central to
00:41:06.860western civilization first of all it didn't even exist until 1948 i'm not sure how it could be
00:41:11.820central to western civilization in fact the history of western civilization did not look
00:41:16.900fondly upon the jews at many times so it doesn't even make sense it would be like saying that
00:41:22.140vermont is central to the existence of saudi arabia they just except those vermont is not
00:41:29.160trying to like usurp the authorities in saudi arabia right i mean it's even more absurd but
00:41:35.420it's just like as i was reading that i i was i was having a hard time just saying the words but
00:41:42.740this sort of thing is i mean you see with joel berry you see with the babylon b you see it in
00:41:47.800the the bulk of sort of like mainstream christianity um and it's tied down to another
00:41:52.520thing that we've discussed i think in season one of the show but the rise of dispensationalism
00:41:58.180As a completely novel theology, dispensationalism also tied to, you know, Zionism, where, you know, I remember years ago asking neighbors, why are you flying an Israeli flag under the American flag?
00:45:55.020is that this idea that the Jews apart from faith in Christ have a separate covenant by which they
00:46:01.800will enter the kingdom. Yes. I mean, and when you read the particularly, right, the new Testament,0.96
00:46:06.100you're like, well, this stands opposed to everything that Christ taught and the apostles.
00:46:10.380Exactly. So you have essentially these two peoples of God in the dispensational view and really us
00:46:16.920Gentiles, us Christians are kind of like the redheaded stepchild. Like, oh, you're lucky
00:46:23.200that you actually made it, but there's a real true people of God still. And so when we say like,
00:46:28.500oh, well, it's by faith that you're actually a true child of Abraham. That's actually how you
00:46:33.900become like a true son of Abraham is by faith in Christ. They would say something like, well,
00:46:39.860that's replacement theology because you're saying that the church replaces Israel in a way. And we
00:46:46.700would say no no the the continuity between old and new covenant is actually always been faith
00:46:53.260it's always been faith uh even even uh i think because of the misunderstanding of covenant
00:47:00.720theology people would ask the question then well how was a jew saved well it was by following the
00:47:05.920law right that's how they were saved by sacrifice by abstaining from you know non-kosher meats or
00:47:12.380whatever you know they would say in confusion and it's all the answer has always been you're
00:47:17.380saved by faith abraham was justified by faith abraham was justified by faith exactly and so
00:47:22.600it's not replacement theology it's a continuity as the from the through the covenants um throughout
00:47:29.220the old and new con there's only ever been one people of god there's always ever yes exactly
00:47:34.060one of the interesting questions that arises in all this to me and i've heard people say this0.56
00:47:38.880And at first I was kind of skeptical, but I see some validity here that the bulk of what the Christian faith is, particularly in America, is a counterfeit faith.
00:47:53.120Like this idea that we are talking about, this new theological apparatus, like to Calvin, it would be utterly foreign to the Christian faith as he understood it from the founding of the church.
00:48:05.160In what ways would you say that it's counterfeit exactly? Because I agree with you.0.80
00:48:09.820Yeah, I think in particular, like some of the focuses that we've talked about on radical individualism, dispensationalism and Zionism would certainly be a part of that.
00:48:19.980I think the redefining of so many sin categories, in particular, like racism, you have a really hard time squaring the New Testament with a lot of things that are said in the intersectionality, wokeness, CRT conversation, even anti-Semitism being a special form of racism.
00:48:39.580You tend to not find these categories in actual Christian teaching.
00:48:44.720yeah i would say go back to season one of the king's hall and you could listen to our episodes
00:48:49.920on revivalism and decisionism as they relate to individualism and ecclesiology the purpose of
00:48:56.540worship who are the people like there's going all the way down you you find that we've you know lost
00:49:03.620the plot on a lot of these things and have been shaped by um modernist ideas sex piety would be
00:49:10.040another piety is another one like you used darwinism uh along with egalitarianism along
00:49:16.380with feminism there have been these corrosive ideologies that they they recognize in a gramsian
00:49:23.060way i think proponents of many of these ideologies that the most effective way to convert a christian
00:49:29.700people who christianity is diametrically opposed to all those things um that what they were going1.00
00:49:34.420to have to do was convince Christians that their own faith demanded them to be feminists and
00:49:40.940demanded them to be egalitarians and demanded them to be all of these things. And so, you know,0.68
00:49:46.080you see how you could develop over a long, slow period of time, the default settings of American
00:49:52.240Christians became, well, not only, of course, is democracy and openness and all these things,
00:49:57.600not only are there key American values, but there are key Christian values. And what that is,
00:50:02.680it's a perversion and an inversion, sometimes in very subtle ways, that's justified with passages
00:50:08.480of scripture ripped out of their context and especially out of the context of Christian
00:50:12.760theological history and claimed that now if you want to be a good Christian, you must affirm
00:50:19.320these things. That's when you've completely won, when you've convinced your opponent that if they
00:50:25.980are going to be a good whatever they are, they have to agree with your positions. Then they'll
00:50:30.060do all of your work for you yeah and maybe even like a hyperbolic example but you i'm sure you've
00:50:34.860seen this article floating around where taylor swift had said this is this years ago but she
00:50:39.860said i'm a christian and christian values demand that we support a woman's right to abortion you
00:50:45.600know that sort of thing i would say that's counterfeit yeah but there's a lot of christians
00:50:49.540in america who believe that sort of thing you actually see this this actual killing of strong
00:50:55.120loves has infiltrated the church absolutely successfully.
00:50:59.800And you see that through like a moral relativism.
00:51:03.260And so that's kind of what you're talking about where there's actually a,
00:51:06.920like Brian said earlier there, you lose a moral foundation.
00:51:10.540And so that, that's doesn't exist in the church.
00:51:13.020And then you begin imposing non theological categories into the realm and
00:51:19.140sphere of the church to determine orthodoxy.
00:51:22.240So that's what we're seeing right now with like the anti-Semitism or Nazism or some of these other debates going around right now on the right is that you're actually your view on Israel.0.67
00:51:37.240The modern nation state of Israel is determining whether you're an Orthodox Christian or not, because you can't have any strong loves.0.83
00:51:46.020Remember, except for Israel. That's the one exception you brought up in the cold open.0.82
00:51:50.980Well, that's such a good point. And I would say, too, as a test case, think about the number of listeners to this show who write to us or text us on a regular basis and say, hey, I said something on X, my pastors found it, and I'm now under church discipline or they're asking me to leave a church.
00:52:10.320And you're like, what did you say? And you go look at the tweet and it's basically something about, yeah, I don't think that we should support unfettered immigration.0.72
00:52:18.480And you're like, wait, wait a minute. Did you violate the PwC or did you violate Christian orthodoxy?0.71
00:52:24.360But you see how in many ways the PwC has become Christian orthodoxy for people.
00:52:30.900It has. It's become the the lens through which we interpret many other doctrines.
00:52:35.800yes so now there's a confusion between the doctrinal um heart of the christian faith
00:52:41.920and the post-war consensus again they've when you convince your enemy to adopt your position
00:52:47.200as your own position like as a fundamental part of your own theological apparatus you've won they
00:52:55.580will now do your work for you you'll you'll now like you won't have to send in a communist
00:52:59.900subversive to a church to get them to enforce radical egalitarianism they'll actually start
00:53:05.620doing it themselves. The pastors will start enforcing it. The men of the church, the women
00:53:10.100of the church will start enforcing it for you. And pretty soon you'll have Matt Chandler hiring
00:53:16.740the black six over the white eight or whatever it was. You'll have what we have now is what you're0.96
00:53:20.860saying. Yeah, you'll have what you have now. So it is ironic that, you know, sometimes people
00:53:26.620think that the way global cabals work or like power politics work is that you have to like
00:53:32.660actually send in a CIA type of agent into a people, you really just have to have to capture
00:53:39.020the gatekeeping mechanisms of institutions that that form and protect guard culture and political
00:53:46.060values and religious values. Once you've done that, those mechanisms will make a people whose
00:53:52.540white blood cells, their their ideological immune system will actually defend itself against your
00:54:00.280opponent against anti-post-war consensus type stuff, which is why there's such an emotional
00:54:05.920reaction to a lot of this stuff. Literally, when we lay this stuff out, I've had lengthy
00:54:11.040conversations with people who started like thinking that we're crazy. And then you start
00:54:16.160having a conversation with them and ask them a few questions and say, well, this is what I believe.
00:54:19.480What do you think about that? Pretty soon by the end of the conversation, they're like,
00:54:22.780wow, that's pretty much just completely reasonable. And I see exactly what you're
00:54:27.580what you're talking about maybe i disagree here or there and and whatever that's great you can
00:54:32.760disagree here there there's lots of room for that but the vitriol the emotion that gets stirred up
00:54:39.440when you start talking about this we've said it before it's the kind of thing that you get when
00:54:45.780you are approaching an idol and it's vanguard of protectors yeah guards and priests yeah and maybe
00:54:53.280no issue uh more so than the historical narratives around world war ii this was actually point
00:54:58.920number one in your summary on x about one of the the principles of the the post-war consensus
00:55:05.280but you said this number one allies versus axis metanarrative the allies were white hats at
00:55:11.960virtually every sense saving the world from the wicked axis powers that were bent on tyrannizing
00:55:17.340and dominating the entire globe any alleged allied atrocities weren't atrocities atrocities0.99
00:55:23.020at all, but necessary steps to combat this civilization destroying threat. So I guess just0.62
00:55:29.200expound on that for me. Um, I think this is mainly obviously allies and access world war two,
00:55:35.340but when you start reading something like Buchanan's book, uh, Churchill, Hitler,
00:55:40.700and the unnecessary war, um, it's interesting because in that book, he doesn't say Hitler was
00:55:47.000just amazing. He says he was an opportunist. Uh, there's lots of things that, that were done
00:55:52.640that we're evil and bad. But he also says, let's correct the historical view on Churchill.
00:56:00.060Churchill loves Stalin. Let's use equal weights and measures. Yeah. Churchill loves Stalin.
00:56:04.480The West, in particular, FDR and Churchill opened up Eastern Europe to communist takeover,0.71
00:56:12.640which killed far more people than anything that happened related to Germany. It was an evil. And0.80
00:56:19.360yet we think of churchill as an unmitigated hero join us along with our guy joel webin from right
00:56:27.260response ministries at the christ is king how to defeat trash world conference happening april 3rd
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00:57:25.280caps. Again, that's KING in all caps for 25% off. Martin, am I reading that right? That seems crazy.
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00:59:14.180partner. Let's win together. So why is this historical narrative such an important part
00:59:22.680of the PwC? Yeah, I mean, so it's an origin story in many ways. Think about this. When you're
00:59:28.980telling stories about yourself, just think psychologically for a minute. When you're
00:59:33.100telling stories, even in your own head about yourself, what role do you give yourself in
00:59:37.280those stories in a conflict or in an issue? You appoint yourself as the hero of the story.
00:59:42.680And you have to do that. The flesh wants to do this. It wants to say, I'm the good guy. I'm
00:59:49.040going to justify everything I ever did. Even if it was questionable to an outside observer,
00:59:53.680if they really understood, they would know why I had to do the thing that I did.
00:59:56.660and the other person it was really all their fault and it was all them they're they're evil
01:00:01.300they're bad they ruined everything that's how we tend to cast ourselves in stories victors write0.66
01:00:06.540the histories yes and this is what the west has done in the post-war consensus is to cast ourselves
01:00:13.100as the victory we were saviors of the world from um you know basically inevitable total destruction
01:00:20.880and total servitude and complete just absolute um you know like 1984 level uh nazism that kind
01:00:32.500of thing like where did they just own everything thought police have you know all the way down
01:00:37.100we have to talk about hitler as having wanted to like dominate the world yeah what's funny is that
01:00:42.780the the people that we teamed up with um in world war ii the communists um are basically they
01:00:50.820actually did that so the soviet union actually did what i just described it was the largest and
01:00:57.280i would say china chinese maoist communism is another you know maybe rival to the greatest of
01:01:03.500these but those two states created the greatest like panopticon of police state total subservience0.88
01:01:12.400of citizens the destruction of human of the human will the destruction of a people and all of its
01:01:19.760cultural Christianity. It's Christianity. The, the, the workers paradise of the Soviet union was0.98
01:01:26.400a statist hell to live in. Right. So that was actually part of the allied forces in world war0.92
01:01:33.540two. Um, now if you read a lot of, a lot of what people hear, when you start to say that sort of
01:01:39.720thing is in, maybe in post-production, Martin could do this, but you know, like make the scene
01:01:44.700purple for a second and like put the lady's hair on my head so what you're saying is hitler never
01:01:51.160sinned and he is you know the greatest christian of all time and you know there was unqualified
01:01:56.560no again the point isn't that we're just trying to trade white hat good hat back and forth when
01:02:01.320we're approaching real some a complicated historical event we're actually just trying
01:02:04.760to do sober analysis of it so that we can say this is why this event happened this is what was
01:02:10.600evil. This is what was good. These were noble motives. These were ignoble motives. Even if
01:02:15.140you read something like a banned book, you know, David Irving's Hitler's war, which is like a ban,
01:02:21.340even though it's funny, like the U S military had it in their curriculums forever. It's like,
01:02:25.680but then it becomes super controversial and banned. And David Irving becomes basically like,
01:02:30.920you know, an anathema in the historical community, even though he's arguably one of the best selling
01:02:35.680historians of all time. Even in that book, Hitler's not presented as an unqualified saint.
01:02:43.200Not at all. It's just a sober telling of history based on primary source documents only. That's
01:02:48.600the idea of David Irving's historical approach there. So what we want to do is just find a white1.00
01:02:54.620hat, put it on ourselves, and then take the black hat and put it on our opponents. What you find
01:03:01.100out though is that it was actually much more complicated than that. The idea that had grown
01:03:08.940up around World War I and World War II was that essentially the Teutonic, the German peoples were
01:03:15.000innately warlike and they had to be crushed or they would always just be going out and conquering0.98
01:03:22.600and destroying everybody until they either took over the world or you completely crushed and got
01:03:26.520rid of them. That was like the idea that had developed. But it's just far more complicated
01:03:30.560than that in fact i would say that when you look at nationalism communism the the communists like
01:03:37.960the ironically like the american liberal international order democracy ideals both
01:03:44.060of those are totalizing political theories that purport to be the correct political theory for
01:03:50.260all nations in all places in all times and all peoples communism and the liberal international
01:03:56.040order democracy they both want to make that claim that we should be that ideally every nation would
01:04:03.840look like our nation in its political theory and its apparatus communism does that and liberal
01:04:09.720international order does that whereas nationalism actually allows for quite a bit of particularity
01:04:13.960you could have monarchy you could have you know various forms of constitutionalism you could have
01:04:19.140lots of different formats but the idea is that a people because of its customs history language
01:04:24.780place, all of that is going to develop around, within reason, it's going to develop its own
01:04:31.460ruling customs. And of course, it's still required by God to enforce moral truth,
01:04:39.240objective moral truth that can be accomplished through various political apparatuses.
01:04:46.140What we did with the World War I and World War II notion was that, you know, basically,
01:04:52.200i think we we uh imported our own totalizing political ideologies onto um german nationalism
01:05:02.520and and and basically we said well they're trying to do what we're trying to do just to make the
01:05:08.640world a democracy they're actually trying to make the world german nationalism which which is an
01:05:13.580absurd historical claim it's just not what they were trying to do right but part of it is uh this
01:05:18.100is sort of the um you know you have gender fluidity but you have truth fluidity too
01:05:23.800in this conception of the world it's part of what Saul Alinsky said how do you know
01:05:28.120whether or not our action was right or moral and he would say because we did it right and so
01:05:34.460you know absent Christian morality this is kind of what you get one of the other things you point
01:05:39.140out is obviously that uh the PwC is anti-nationalist we've we've kind of covered that
01:05:45.660But one that's interesting to me is that there is a Western-focused antinatalism that is associated with the PwC, and you say predominantly white Westerners were encouraged to limit reproduction for the sake of environmentalism, concordantly with large-scale immigration from third-world countries into the West.
01:06:05.360A people who doesn't consider themselves a people at all won't reproduce, so immigrants must be imported to buoy economic growth and to consolidate power.
01:06:13.680this is a really interesting i mean in one way it's simple because if you can force a people0.56
01:06:19.720through sterilization through the pill there's many ways to do this through abortion but if you
01:06:25.400can convince the people that they ought not to have the will to even exist yeah then certainly
01:06:31.160you will crush and destroy that culture but then it actually amplifies dan when you put the third0.80
01:06:36.220world in america this seems to be one that's interesting to me because in the last five years
01:06:42.700particularly this is what has caused so much revolt i think of the american populace um unlike
01:06:49.980europe they didn't we haven't gone as quietly uh on this issue when you see obviously you know
01:06:58.360lake and riley news stories but you can go to west haven uh just down the road from here and
01:07:05.000you have these villages of venezuelans popping up and then you read in the paper daily about the crime
01:07:10.880uh that's going on in these neighborhoods which used to be nicer suburban uh you know white
01:07:17.940neighborhoods and now they're being overrun by truly like cartel level crimes like piles of dead
01:07:25.460bodies found in the trunk of cars and so i think correct me if i'm wrong but i think this one people
01:07:30.480are pushing back against rightly so i'm not convinced that christians in america have
01:07:35.980in mass adopted though a pro natalist view yet no no i i mean you can just look at the average
01:07:43.380evangelical church in america and then just look at the adult to child ratio and the size of
01:07:49.320families and know that that actually hasn't caught on yet in in just predominant american culture
01:07:55.780but i i do think that a lot of the work that you know we're doing and others on the dissident right
01:08:02.680and encouraging large families. This actually goes back to the resurgence of, of post-millennialism
01:08:09.480and valuing your generations. I think that's definitely catching on. And you do see it
01:08:15.200ironically in like traditional, like trad wife kind of traditional secular culture. Maybe you
01:08:24.320saw the post the other day on X and it was, it was just a young mom with a baby. And she's like,
01:08:29.980I, it's, it's baby's nap time. And I just don't want to, I don't want to put baby down. He's
01:08:34.760just snuggling with me. I want to be, I love being a mom. I would, I would have a million
01:08:39.600more babies. And that, that was the post wholesome, great, and really recovering something.
01:08:46.740Part of the loves that's been killed in us, which is just the will to exist, the will to have your
01:08:53.300name go into generations. The will to actually have something of you last in this world, to be
01:09:01.140able to influence the world for the good for your own children. I mean, that's something that has
01:09:06.860largely died. Ironically, though, the third world hasn't been influenced in the same way.
01:09:11.880And so you bring a lot of these illegal immigrants into America or into Europe, into0.98
01:09:19.020dominant Western cultures and they have huge families and they do displace a people. And0.99
01:09:26.460you do see that. And there are lots of ways. I know when we talked in the last episode,
01:09:32.060did we talk about how economic policy really discourages large families? So there's many
01:09:39.280different ways that this is actually being attacked in your will to exist and for your
01:09:44.640generations to exist and the first and foremost like like brian mentioned in his tweet is is
01:09:50.940through sterilization and then murder of your own children through abortion but there are other ways
01:09:56.080of discouraging that such as like pay your bills like it's really hard right now how am i supposed
01:10:02.100to feed a kid when my wife and i both have to work just to exist well you mentioned this in your
01:10:07.000sermon was like 2017 the home price in america or not yeah it was 2015 in ogden the average home
01:10:14.420price was $133,000. And 10 years later in 2025, it's $457,000, which is a 3.4X in just home
01:10:25.340prices. Which is obviously going to be a deterrent to families. Yes. One of the things I do think
01:10:31.300is that, Brian, I think we'll know we've arrived as a nation when Tesla finally has a minivan.
01:10:36.260A 12 passenger van. Yeah. 12 passenger minivan. Yeah, absolutely. When they have a minivan that's
01:10:40.320configurable between eight and 12 seats or maybe eight and 15 we'll definitely know that we have
01:10:45.620indeed arrived at elon musk's natalist utopia well it is interesting though because you've watched
01:10:52.440i mean i was watching elon musk in the white house the other day this was on social media
01:10:56.740obviously this is curated but it's interesting what they're curating yes where elon has got his
01:11:02.200son there with him and trump's always with his grandkids and jd vance jd vance has always got
01:11:08.680Yeah, I think I saw a tweet that had pictures of all of the kids in the White House, and it said now that the White House is more, shoot, what's the term when you have kids in service?
01:11:27.300Yeah, so I think the rise in natalism, but tied to the third world and immigration, Brian, you also mentioned this was your sixth point, globalist economics and the welfare state.0.58
01:11:37.300So New Deal policies, part of the thing that happens if you go back and you look at like the Nixon era, it was pretty much a lock that, you know, white evangelical conservatives predominantly like the Republican Party would control the future of America.
01:11:54.140that changes with the 1964 civil rights act and then later immigration reform and so now
01:12:01.880i think the democrats were wise right evil but wise in this way that they were like look if we
01:12:08.200flood the country with people who are on welfare then we're going to have a natural voting block
01:12:13.120and we can displace the establishment so talk just a little bit about the problem with the
01:12:18.720welfare state we have social security we have again new deal new deal policies that are still
01:12:25.880in play today fiat currency and other things why is that such a problem so they all go together
01:12:31.120like in a vertical alignment all the way up and down ideologically in terms of the the imagination
01:12:37.500of a people what they're expecting what they think about in terms of what the nation is
01:12:41.840what is the good what is the good life these are questions people have wrestled with forever
01:12:47.780Cicero, I mean, is right, on the good life.
01:15:31.820And then nations can relate to each other as these kind of economic familial units of interconnected webs of love.
01:15:39.720When you replace that with an amalgam of just an incoherent, homogenized global order where everybody is a global citizen, you're actually cutting systematically all of those bonds from the maximum level, zoomed all the way out to the nation as it relates to the world, all the way down to the family.
01:16:01.980So you have to start to replace these normal human mechanisms for how things like the economic welfare of your family would work.
01:16:10.960Instead of having children whom you would bless with inheritance and they would care for you in your age, now we have to actually intervene with New Deal, with Social Security, with state safety net, with the systematic replacement of all those things, with globalist versions of what was accomplished by those existing mechanisms.
01:16:33.700Well, it's interesting too, because even on things like you mentioned caring for your family, but even in the church, we have a lot of voices who are telling us things like, well, your family doesn't really matter. It's your allegiance to the universal church. Of course, it's got to be globalized.
01:16:52.060But even Paul, we were thinking this as we're dealing with, you know, local instances of people needing help and charity and stuff like that.
01:17:00.520Even Paul would say to the widows, hey, before you come to the church for charity, don't you have living family members who can help you out?
01:17:08.260Right, because there is a natural bond that wasn't destroyed by the grace of the gospel in the new covenant era.
01:17:15.160Paul is saying, yes, there's a primary allegiance from the family.
01:17:19.540i was even reading a statistic they said the number one indicator of whether or not there
01:17:24.240will be child abuse in a home is whether or not you have one or more parent who's not biologically
01:17:30.540the parent yes now why is that because you have natural affection for your own offspring and it's
01:17:37.880also an instantiation of evil there's some evil has happened when you have a non-biological parent0.88
01:17:43.520in the home generally speaking you're going to have something like divorce or infidelity0.96
01:17:47.140or even a natural evil like death and widowhood there's something that has interrupted the normal
01:17:53.460natural operation of things because of sin and its effect on the world and on people
01:17:58.080so of course related to that there's going to be less there's going to be more dysfunction
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01:21:00.860So as I'm thinking about this, as it relates to natalism, the economy, think about what the
01:21:07.040the like the social imaginary is what people call this often like the the idea of the good life and
01:21:12.080the good it's been replaced with instead of a man with his with his great grandchildren a man and
01:21:17.600his wife and their grandchildren and their extended family flourishing and pouring himself into that
01:21:22.780people for the glory of god and the good of his people like instead of that now we have a an
01:21:29.540isolated, atomized, individualized, deracinated version where the state has replaced all of those
01:21:37.820highest ends with things like, well, I have to have the biggest stock portfolio that I can.
01:21:44.500I want to make sure that I don't burden myself with dependents. Think about how we think of
01:21:49.200children. They're dependents. They're not resources. They're not an inheritance. They're
01:21:54.720not arrows in my quiver anymore they're dependents so if if i i want to be independent then i must
01:22:02.400free myself from these bonds and pursue maximal economic productivity maximal dollars in my bank
01:22:11.000account maximal stock price go up usually to the exclusion of those children these things are not
01:22:17.240isolated yeah when you again this cuts all the way down to what is a man what is a woman what is a
01:22:23.380family? What is a nation? What is the good? What is the good life? What are we aiming for? What
01:22:27.780does God make us to do? What does nature teach? What did God wire into man? All of those fundamental
01:22:32.980answers that Christianity, especially over the centuries, came to accord concerning,
01:22:38.080we've replaced with a novel doctrine, with a novel view of the good, a novel view of the chief end of
01:22:45.800man. Of course, you're going to have the total... If those things turn out to be lies, then man is
01:22:51.740building, not on the cornerstone anymore of God, of the God who made him in the worship of that
01:22:57.020God, he's now building on the shifting sands of a lie. And so no matter what you do, the Soviet0.97
01:23:02.980Union will not create a worker's paradise. It won't even be able to compete with a nation that0.89
01:23:10.220is in the process of apostatizing like America. But do you think a big part of this answer,
01:23:14.460it seems to be, but I want to get your thoughts. A big part of this answer is that everything
01:23:18.960that the liberal international order, post-war consensus, communism, you know, secular things
01:23:25.860across the political spectrum, whatever they're trying to accomplish is fundamentally at war with
01:23:31.920nature in the world, the world that God made. And so part of this for Christians, this is why I
01:23:38.660think reclaiming the old tradition of natural law is important because, you know, I was thinking
01:23:44.980about this scripture obviously has much to teach us we love scripture it's the lamp that lightens
01:23:50.680our path we want to walk in the the precepts and commandments of the lord all that but take the
01:23:56.360kingly wisdom of solomon for example the number of times when he's illustrating a point he says
01:24:01.000consider the ant consider the rock badger think about these things or paul will say something
01:24:07.860that is like foreign to the modern evangelical establishment but he'll make actually just go
01:24:14.260straight to the heart on the homosexuality issue. And they'll say, does not nature teach you?
01:24:17.860Yeah. Like this is unnatural. So it, it seems like we're also in a war against nature itself.
01:24:25.800When we try to, you know, we try to say things like nations don't really exist. It's just pigment
01:24:31.900in your skin. Um, who cares who your family really is? Your family's everybody. I don't think,
01:24:38.580you know, to, to quote a line from Jurassic park, nature always finds a way.
01:24:42.620you're not going to defeat nature because what you're doing when you are warring against nature
01:24:47.560is you're warring against nature's god yes god spoke through natural revelation and he spoke
01:24:54.620through special revelation he he speaks clearly through both and this is actually one of the
01:25:00.420um one of the the things i think we get wrong is that we tend to think that god's voice in nature
01:25:06.120is somehow very unclear but that's not how the scriptures speak in fact god's voice is so clear
01:25:13.160in nature that in romans 1 paul says that the unbeliever has to every second of his life
01:25:18.260suppress the truth in unrighteousness we're told and we'll be condemned for that they will be
01:25:23.900condemned on the basis of their suppression of that truth um that that the the skies proclaim
01:25:29.220his handiwork they're not speaking indistinctly they're not making a rant you know a vague sound
01:25:35.300that maybe if you had a phd in greek philosophy then just maybe you might reason your way to know0.96
01:25:42.200there's a god no only special kinds of retards have been atheists through history like the vast0.94
01:25:49.300majority of the human race has been like sky big god real it's that's and that's not a bad0.96
01:25:57.360interpretation of psalm 19 sky big god real right so when we talk about natural revelation natural
01:26:04.020theology, when we talk about these things as if they're completely indistinct, just because
01:26:07.960sinful man goes out and does what sinful man does with literally everything, including special
01:26:12.120revelation, which is to warp it to his own purposes, it doesn't mean the speech is indistinct.
01:26:17.500So how much, if it's clear to them that they have to suppress the truth, how much more
01:26:22.100to the regenerate Christian and regenerate Christian peoples and nations ought they to
01:26:27.200be able to discern the creational intent of what God meant to do when he made a thing?
01:26:31.440like when you see a car it doesn't take long for you to figure out what it's for
01:26:37.260the the the intent of the creator of the car wasn't indistinct you watch a city for five
01:26:45.120minutes even if you've never seen a car you'd be like oh that's a thing you get in it takes you
01:26:48.380from one place to another it seems like they put some kind of liquid in the tank and and that seems
01:26:52.580to be required for it to go it'll stop every three like you could figure stuff out in about
01:26:56.460an afternoon about a car and you go, that's what a car is for. Any unbeliever, right? So we look at0.86
01:27:01.520the world that God made and we're saying that the creator of a car was so much clearer than the
01:27:06.640creator of the world about what it is and what it's for. No, no, there are sinners out there
01:27:10.700warping it and misusing it. They do the same thing with the Bible though. Give an unbeliever the
01:27:15.380Bible or Jordan Peterson it, you know, with all the cleverness in the world, they'd be like,1.00
01:27:19.420it's almost like the resurrection is like a metaphor and it depends on what you mean by
01:27:25.240resurrection and what you mean by the and what you mean by mean when you say happen what do you
01:27:31.460mean and then happen he cries for like 15 minutes and then people are like that's profound so jordan
01:27:36.760peterson is doing with special revelation what the unbeliever does with natural revelation
01:27:40.280but it's not because the special revelation is unclear or the natural revelation is unclear
01:27:45.540so much of this just has to do like every i want you to like there should be a drinking game on x
01:27:52.460that anytime someone asks you for a bible verse when you state something obvious as pie about the
01:27:58.800natural world you you have to like actually they should have to take a shot but you know what i
01:28:03.200mean like you could say you know nature teaches us that men shouldn't bugger one another and
01:28:08.300they'd be like do you have a verse i'd be like actually i do but i didn't even need one i didn't
01:28:12.000need i didn't need one people knew that before that verse was written down in leviticus 19
01:28:16.900they knew that you shouldn't do that i was about to go into a classic king's hall
01:28:23.020a classic king's hall reason why i was actually please i was actually waiting for that i'm gonna
01:28:28.020exercise restraint good listener good man uh dan i want to ask as we kind of wrap things up
01:28:33.640one of the things that uh rr reno or if you pretend to know him rusty um rusty reno you
01:28:42.060me and rusty were talking the other day yeah i was reading his book yeah i mean rusty we're talking
01:28:45.700But one of the things that he says that's interesting is that the rise of Donald Trump is a really strong indication that the post-war consensus is dying, that the strong gods and the strong loves are returning.
01:29:01.000So I want to get your take. Do you think that's true?
01:29:03.900Are there other factors you would look at in our current environment that would lead you to believe something is changing in the way that people view the world?
01:29:12.980yeah i think there's more that's a multi-faceted question again that you ask me and the reality
01:29:21.160you're so smart i know you can handle it thank you thank you i am smart uh no if there's there's
01:29:28.560a couple of reasons that i'll just you know skip a rock over the first is to what brian was talking
01:29:34.260about with just nature like you can only resist nature for so long it only works for a little
01:29:41.980while, because what is it actually doing? It's, it's actually rebelling against the order of
01:29:48.700the world that God has made. And you can only rebel against God for so long, you know, before,
01:29:54.580before things just do not work, they fall apart. And so I think that's the first thing you even
01:30:00.980see this in things like evolution. Evolution is falling out of vogue very quickly. I mean, it is
01:30:07.780people gen z um younger millennials and such uh you can even you could talk to them about
01:30:15.380evolution and they're like wait so wait evolution what is that a single-celled organism and it
01:30:21.720became a human being like that doesn't make any sense like it's just not logical but you could
01:30:27.020you could just only tell lies for so long before people are like that i'm not buying that anymore0.84
01:30:32.680don't you think a big part of that was like transgenderism stuff like that oh man there's
01:30:36.800Yeah, because, again, all these categories that have actually fed one another into what we the culture that we have now was dominated by the post-war consensus and with roots in the French Revolution and all that.0.88
01:30:50.280I mean, it can only what at the time appeared to support one another actually becomes they become enemies because they're so unnatural in the world that God has made that the lies are no longer compatible.0.76
01:31:06.860You see this within the the LGBTQ and transgenderism, you know, movements, how they're actually opposed to one another at this point.0.95
01:31:17.980It seems like they should be friends, but then they're like fighting, you know, because it's both are unnatural.1.00
01:31:24.100They're both lies and the lies are incompatible over time.
01:31:28.620I think the other reality is that when you just squeeze a people.
01:31:32.920So that's like just talking about truth and reality.
01:31:35.940But the other the other is much more like functional, physical, more boots on the ground than ideological is that you can only squeeze people for so long before they rebel.
01:31:47.100before they buck back at you know the ideas um that are being forced upon them you see this
01:31:54.360throughout history i mean when you have tyrannical rulers um in just wicked societies people rebel
01:32:00.920they revolt and i think that's what you're seeing in a very american way especially when the lies
01:32:07.040are not as subtle yeah they're they're paraded and they're obvious and that chick has a never0.99
01:32:14.140Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when everybody knows that they're lying, you know, they're lying. We know they're lying. They know they're lying. Everybody knows they're lying. Like it, and it actually hurts your ability to live that at that point becomes just, you're, you're living in a lie and you, well, you, you're not, you're not thriving in the lie.0.98
01:32:35.640you're just surviving in the lie and then they're they're saying in fact that's not enough you
01:32:42.080actually have to hate yourself you have to hate your own people i mean so the lies just continue
01:32:46.960to be perpetuated to the point where the only option is like i don't it's nihilism i don't1.00
01:32:52.320know even why you exist like you should be replaced you scum you shouldn't exist you should1.00
01:32:58.340hate yourself i hate you everybody hates you you should hate you and at some point and this is what1.00
01:33:03.460we're seeing this is the vibe shift and everything like that is people saying no actually i don't0.99
01:33:09.380believe your lies anymore i in fact do want to exist and i want my generations to exist and i
01:33:15.120love my people i love my church i love my family i love my country neo-nazi well and the thing is
01:33:22.740their lies don't work anymore their framing doesn't work anymore is a skinhead like literally
01:33:27.560in the sense that there's only skin on top of his head you know what i mean it's kind of it's kind
01:33:34.440of i mean i do know what you mean telling well i mean to the point it's gotten so extreme where
01:33:41.840people are like you're you're anti-semitic you're a racist and men are saying so what
01:33:48.200like that's that that could be an over overreaction i think there's a way you could
01:33:53.420actually defend that but but i i mean to the point where it's like yeah so what your lies
01:33:58.860your your labels they don't work anymore you have no power here i sort of think we're in a moment
01:34:05.320where if you picture like the silver chair and they're underground yes
01:34:13.500and puddle glum yeah puts his feet in the fire somebody has to be willing to be like all right
01:34:22.100call me a nazi the smell of burnt marsh wiggle has filled the air if our if our if our pretend0.94
01:34:27.280narnia kicks your underworld's butt then i would rather just believe in the pretend thing0.97
01:34:34.520because your world stinks but but what did puddle glum do when he did that he shattered the spell0.99
01:34:40.220it was the enchantment that all of a sudden everybody woke up and i just think it it takes
01:34:45.600a few courageous unlikely people i think with there's a couple things in there too that go back
01:34:52.760to personal stories like for elon you've heard him tell the story of when like hit one of his
01:34:57.300sons was transgendered yeah man i mean as a dad oh you could tell it broke him even said something
01:35:05.700like my son is dead wow you know but why would he be speaking out and leveraging his finances and
01:35:15.220his wealth now for something radically different. I think also the call, especially for the
01:35:22.320listeners, it may be that you get called in to an elder's office. It may be because of something
01:35:29.800that, you know, you upset the elder's wife on X. It may be that you get called into the HR lady's
01:35:36.100office, but there's going to come a point where you just have to say, I don't care.
01:35:41.320i know what reality is i know what truth is and i think that's why lewis was it was smart to use
01:35:50.580puddle glum because he's not a hero you know he's not a classical hero but he turns out to be
01:35:57.300one of the greatest heroes in the whole series despite his whole vibe you know his puddle
01:36:03.800yeah that's what i thought you're gonna say yeah well you're gonna you're probably not gonna like
01:36:09.540the eel soup and even even if you do it'll probably upset your stomach and you probably
01:36:13.820won't sleep tonight but it somehow made him immune to the witch probably flood yeah
01:36:17.560the song the thrumming yeah yeah which is great um well gentlemen it's been a good conversation
01:36:27.860brian um there's a conference coming we're gonna recover the will we are going to recover the will
01:36:35.420to be to American greatness. We're going to put off all of the HR. We're going to sit like that
01:36:41.160kid with the HR lady. We just like, he's looking at her like, keep going. Trump's almost here.
01:36:50.180We're going to throw off the HR lady. We're going to throw off safety first.0.95
01:36:53.700The conference is called safety third, recovering the American will to greatness.
01:36:58.320Dr. Steven Wolf's going to be there. We're going to have the contramundum guys out. We're going to
01:37:02.340be, there's just going to be a lot going on. The most important thing, honestly, though,
01:37:06.360about the conference, other than great talks, is really going to be the opportunity to make
01:37:11.280friends and forge coalition across our nation. We have people from all over the nation that come
01:37:18.320to our annual conference, and you're going to be able to meet like-minded folks. We'll have
01:37:22.160some mechanisms for you to see who's from your region, but just to forge relationships where
01:37:27.740you can have an ever strengthening network of people who have your back and share your values.
01:37:33.460These are the things that allow us to build. Honestly, it's network. The more you learn,
01:37:38.860the more you'll find that it's not you, yourself, and you that's going to build. It's going to be
01:37:43.320you and this other guy and this other guy and a growing network of courageous, competent men who
01:37:51.180are like-minded, share the vision. And so we hope to inspire you at the conference, help you make
01:37:57.240good friends. You should check it out, newchristinandpress.com slash 2025, or just head
01:38:03.340to our website. And it's right there at the top, the conference tab. And grab tickets there.
01:38:08.040The prices go up for the tickets over time. We have a pastors event for just pastors. We have
01:38:15.480a business mixer. We have a VIP kind of just hangout. We have a singles mixer, which our last
01:38:22.380couple have resulted in several marriages and weddings already and more forthcoming i believe
01:38:28.460so uh and we do cap that event uh with space so make sure that you don't wait like go get
01:38:36.420your tickets get your spot now um i'll be putting on a concert i've heard it's right there in the
01:38:42.860the ticket menu so come check that out yeah june 12th through 14th ogden utah be excited to have
01:38:50.000everybody here stay for sunday yeah stay for sunday we'll be in the same facility so i have
01:38:55.780plenty of space we're gonna have a big barbecue sunday afternoon after church as a big church and
01:39:00.240all of our guests so it's just gonna be man like a wild fun time and the last thing i want to tease
01:39:06.840and i'm just gonna tease it here is that we are right now i saw a tweet the other day it really
01:39:13.380it made me laugh because it was supposed to be like against all these christian nationalists
01:39:17.400And it was like, you know, don't just pay attention to people who are like all these social media talkers, you know, just talk a big game, like pay attention to the people who are like building institutions and real coalitions and networks and things like that.
01:39:30.800And then that very week, I know they were trying to dunk on Christian nationalists that very week.
01:39:36.240We've been now twice our elder team and our team has toured a Mormon ward, which is a local Mormon church building.
01:39:44.980it's they they're scattered throughout utah in in the mormon world you're assigned to your church
01:39:50.200by neighborhood um but as the church has shrunk in its power and influence in the state of utah
01:39:55.780a lot of the mormon words have gone up for sale so uh they're they're these just great little
01:40:00.800one to three four five acre plots scattered throughout neighborhoods one came up for sale
01:40:06.420right up the street we've been growing as a church um and our school has been growing as well
01:40:11.820And with that has come increased need for pastoral offices, for counseling, school classrooms for our grades one through 12 school, classical school, St. Brennan's here at the church.
01:40:25.660And so this one came up for for the on the market.
01:40:29.240And we're officially putting a letter of intent in this week to attempt to buy this Mormon ward to use as our school.
01:40:40.380So it's just an amazing, we're so thankful to the Lord for prospering the local work here,
01:40:46.400the real in-person families on the ground here in Ogden, Utah, one of the least reached people
01:40:54.200groups in the entire U.S. and the Lord has been blessing the work here. So glory to God,
01:40:59.700we are going to be doing a fundraising campaign if they accept our offer to basically make this
01:41:08.660happen it's over a million dollars to buy a building like this in utah so we're doing a
01:41:12.780fundraising campaign keep keep an ear out for that and help us take over a mormon word for
01:41:17.960classical christian education in jesus name i love it don't know what else to say other than
01:41:24.320that guys yeah i mean that's pretty awesome uh kick rock satan how about that that was yeah that
01:41:31.020was a better nah that's good uh dan if you would just give us a you know a toast yeah
01:41:38.460Yeah. I would encourage you all to live not by lies and to observe the reality around you,
01:41:45.320the world that God has made, his truth in scripture, and to gird your loins for courage
01:41:50.920because there's going to be many opportunities in the world that we're in for you to cower
01:41:56.760and for you to shrink back. But instead, take that ugly webbed foot and put it in the witch's fire1.00
01:42:03.160and break the spell of the lies that are being told. And who knows what God could do?0.95
01:42:08.460Maybe you could be looking at buying a Mormon ward to put a Christian school in.0.84
01:42:14.280And with that, Festin Alente, we'll talk to you next time on The King Saul.
01:42:17.540Okay, and one last thing before you go.
01:42:19.380We are going to continue talking about that potential Mormon ward building purchase on After Hours.
01:42:24.820So for any supporters of the show, any of our patrons, you'll be able to jump in on that,
01:42:30.000our little After Hours program where we just kind of, you know, pass a pint and talk.