The King's Hall - Why The Church Fails to Pass Down Practical Wisdom About Sexed Piety

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00:00:56.600 a good friend of the show john moody recently wrote a series of posts on x that cut right to

00:01:08.040 the heart of one of the biggest issues frustrating the fruitfulness of christian culture today

00:01:12.600 if you don't know john he's a serial entrepreneur judo black belt and all-around great guy you may

00:01:19.080 know him from some of his work with joel salatin or his work more generally in the realm of

00:01:24.120 productive Christian households. And by the way, according to his Twitter bio, his T-level is 833

00:01:30.420 even though he's in his late 40s, and I don't think that it's because he's on trend. Let me

00:01:36.240 close this introduction by saying no homo, since it probably sounds like I'm hitting on John right

00:01:41.500 now. Anyway, John wrote a series of posts on X, each of which imagined a conversation between a

00:01:47.660 young man or young woman and an older man or an older woman in the church. In this episode, we'll

00:01:53.160 be looking at these posts and talking through some of the issues that they raise, particularly

00:01:57.800 speaking to the question, how can we build Christian communities that don't sound like

00:02:02.740 this? To begin, I'll read through the post where John imagined a conversation between a young man

00:02:08.780 and an older man in the church. Here it is. Young man. Hey Steve, I wanted to talk with you. I really

00:02:16.160 want to grow as a husband and a father, do a better job leading my home, loving my wife, training up

00:02:21.380 my kids, providing, and more. Can you help me? Older man. That's great to hear. We're just about

00:02:27.880 to start our next round of men's ministry, where we'll be studying the minor prophets. Young man.

00:02:33.960 Oh, that sounds interesting and all, but we're so financially tight right now. My wife seems

00:02:38.780 tired most of the time, and we're both stressed out with having four kids under six. I really

00:02:44.280 struggle with patience, and we've had a number of fights lately. Older man. And then every week,

00:02:49.700 why don't you wake up early to come to the men's prayer breakfast? All the older dads are there at

00:02:54.180 6 30 a.m to chat and then we pray for a few minutes before we head to work. Young man, that would be

00:03:00.560 great but we have so many bills from the new baby I have to take overtime right now and I have to

00:03:06.120 get into work early. Groceries and other bills since the twins started eating solid food. Do you

00:03:11.940 all talk about how to get kids to sit still so you can do family worship? I have heard the pastor

00:03:17.560 mentioned it a few times, but none of the guys I have talked to had families that did it growing up

00:03:22.720 and none of us know how to make it work without the kids just going crazy. Older man. And you

00:03:27.960 probably would really enjoy the men's quarterly retreat. It only costs 300 or so dollars plus

00:03:33.660 food and a few other small costs. So really shouldn't be more than about 500 total. And you

00:03:38.260 would only miss a couple of days of work. There will be pickleball and cornhole. And this quarter

00:03:42.920 is all about penal substitutionary atonement.

00:03:46.200 Young men, yes, sir, getting away would be awesome,

00:03:49.600 but we're already having trouble

00:03:51.020 finding someone to watch the kids

00:03:52.640 for even just a few hours

00:03:54.020 so we can go on a walk or take a picnic to the local park

00:03:56.980 and get to spend some time together.

00:03:59.200 I don't see how I could miss work

00:04:00.860 and leave my wife for four days right now.

00:04:02.980 If I could make more money, I could,

00:04:05.360 which is why I wanted to ask you

00:04:07.240 about how to better manage our money

00:04:08.720 and how I could find a way to make a bit more.

00:04:11.700 I'm also really confused by what insurances we actually need right now

00:04:15.540 and which we can actually afford right now.

00:04:17.320 Oh, and isn't that retreat far away?

00:04:19.940 Our only car is making some funny noises,

00:04:22.300 so unless someone could give me a ride, I couldn't get there,

00:04:25.220 and I don't feel great being four hours away with Sarah stuck with the car.

00:04:29.680 Older man.

00:04:30.380 Oh, well, if you can't make it,

00:04:32.640 you should consider just reading a few more books that the pastors have recommended.

00:04:36.380 You can probably find used copies.

00:04:38.480 Younger man.

00:04:38.960 Yeah, I'm just not sure when I would read them.

00:04:42.160 I'm getting home from work around 5.30 and Sarah needs help with the kids right when I go through the door.

00:04:48.080 We spend all night getting them fed, reading them books, getting them cleaned up and ready for bed.

00:04:53.180 We rarely get to bed before 10.30 and I have to be up at 5 for work the next morning.

00:04:58.180 The schedule is really starting to wear on our marriage.

00:05:01.180 Older man, you honestly just sound like you have a lot of excuses, son.

00:05:04.880 You really need a man up.

00:05:05.920 When I was first married, things were just as challenging.

00:05:08.960 but we still, younger man,

00:05:11.480 weren't you just sharing with Larry

00:05:13.080 how you graduated college almost debt-free

00:05:15.300 and bought your first house

00:05:16.760 for only twice what you made a year out of college?

00:05:20.060 And didn't you all only have two kids

00:05:22.060 and that was seven or eight years into marriage?

00:05:24.540 Older man, you younger guys just need to stop complaining,

00:05:28.060 work harder and trust the Lord more.

00:05:30.080 We all know what that stage of marriage and kids was like.

00:05:33.440 Younger man, yeah, which is why I was asking for help,

00:05:36.880 but I guess I may have come to the wrong place.

00:05:40.360 I guess he did indeed.

00:05:42.040 Do you see the problem?

00:05:43.580 Have you had frustrating conversations

00:05:45.340 and experiences like this in your church community?

00:05:48.420 Join us in this episode of the King's Hall

00:05:50.360 as we discuss the problem of intergenerational training

00:05:54.120 and what to do about it.

00:05:56.140 The King's Hall podcast exists to make self-ruled men

00:05:58.880 who rule well and win the world.

00:06:02.860 Hola, and como estas?

00:06:04.540 this is the king's hall podcast brian we are friends of all cultures we really are eric and

00:06:12.780 what is what does como estas mean it means uh how are you how are you hola and como estas dear

00:06:18.840 listeners um are you trying to be more multicultural is that what not trying i am did you get the call

00:06:24.880 i definitely got the call did any hey let me ask you a question have you received any free vacations

00:06:30.480 lately no but from any oddly enough i had millions of dollars in one of my accounts this morning

00:06:37.580 mexico city foreign currency hey we fly you out you want to see mexico city a lifetime supply of

00:06:45.700 corona i see is what eric got the call the well-known mexican call yeah we're not talking

00:06:52.180 about anything else can i just open this episode eric by saying if loving john moody's gay call me

00:06:58.800 elton john okay i did not request that can we explain what happened before we hit record

00:07:08.820 we had a small dart competition in the studio we have a dart board right over there right over

00:07:14.520 there and i said before the competition three darts high score wins loser has to say if loving

00:07:20.640 john moody's gay call me elton john and i did not agree to those and then i threw a dart eric

00:07:27.640 did not agree to it i threw a dart i hit the the one i scored a 50 i nailed the one then i hit the

00:07:34.200 four then i hit the nine it was the worst darts performance of all i scored like a 15 it was

00:07:40.880 absolutely horrible it was truly embarrassing so i deserved i was i was actually i mean the

00:07:47.100 statement that you just made is dumb yeah i was more embarrassed by your dart score no 100 it was

00:07:53.620 it was much more embarrassing than anything i've ever said it was awful on this podcast uh brian

00:07:59.000 speaking of things that are embarrassing uh we're gonna get into these tweets from john moody and

00:08:03.580 what he said was great but boomer mind boomer brain cannot comprehend yeah uh so we'll delve

00:08:09.900 into that i do want to make a quick plug man i don't want to pat myself on the back but we have

00:08:15.780 had some killer content hey i know the proverb says let another praise you not your own mouth

00:08:23.020 But can I just say, well, see, that doesn't apply here because I said we, I didn't say

00:08:28.440 I, it was collect, it was collect.

00:08:30.440 But I was praising the team that I lead.

00:08:33.520 We have made such good friends as Martin Luther King Jr.'s daughter who positively commented

00:08:39.520 on one of my posts positively is a strong word, but yeah, thank you.

00:08:44.480 There were definitely positive threats issued from her to us.

00:08:49.160 Well over a hundred death threats recently.

00:08:51.280 So yeah.

00:08:52.060 Oh, absolutely.

00:08:53.020 That's good.

00:08:53.820 Yeah, we always, always enjoy hearing feedback from the listener.

00:08:58.780 Yes.

00:09:00.560 Brian, I noticed you've been drinking a lot of coffee from that K-cup machine.

00:09:05.360 Yeah, man, I've been microplastic maxing lately.

00:09:08.600 Dude, that sounds terrible.

00:09:09.900 It's not great.

00:09:12.180 Well, I've been making my coffee with the single origin beans from Lux Coffee.

00:09:17.040 Hold up, you're drinking artisan coffee?

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00:11:43.960 John Moody.

00:11:45.320 Yeah.

00:11:46.160 What would we say about John?

00:11:48.520 Not what you said at the beginning.

00:11:51.520 John's a great guy.

00:11:52.800 Yeah, so I met John years back.

00:11:55.280 There was a whole host of us who were in Louisville going to seminary.

00:11:59.720 And I don't know if John finished.

00:12:01.340 I, of course, didn't.

00:12:03.440 but it's it's weird just a bunch of people who were in the middle of russ moore was the dean

00:12:09.200 of school of theology dang um so a lot of us were coming awake woke woke woke right sun comes up

00:12:18.260 in the morning shines on you you awaken you reach your right hand to turn your alarm off woke right

00:12:25.160 i am right-handed woke right uh but we were we were genuinely like starting to see some of these

00:12:32.280 issues yeah uh part of the context too brian was we were part of a lot of us were these city churches

00:12:38.300 we were actually part of the sojourn network yeah um so was so was i later yeah um so it's

00:12:45.840 interesting because you had this like go to the city be the city be in mash and like for the city

00:12:52.480 you know ethnic communities of some sort yeah louisville was mostly the probably the predominant

00:12:57.380 was black um so people were moving into the cities um they were trying to buy up neighborhoods

00:13:02.460 a lot of people abandoned that project because they were like well we we choose life we want

00:13:08.440 to live and so we're not gonna keep doing this so there was a lot of problems uh but also kind

00:13:14.260 of the teaching coming from the church which was early woke it was early woke it was the early

00:13:19.480 woke we left sojourn network when it they fired their current president and appointed mike cosper

00:13:24.860 And we were like, and this was like before the rise and fall Mars Hill and all that.

00:13:28.060 We were just like, absolutely not.

00:13:30.360 The, the funny thing is I've talked to John about this because, um, in Kentucky it was

00:13:35.720 illegal to buy raw milk or to have a midwife.

00:13:41.080 And, uh, I remember saying to John years ago, I said, yeah, I remember being a part of your

00:13:44.660 buying club.

00:13:45.260 And this is the kind of guy John is.

00:13:47.220 He said, actually, I remember your wife being a part of the buying club and her kind of

00:13:52.180 taking the leading role at that point in your life.

00:13:54.860 I was like, okay.

00:13:57.900 Judo chop to the jugular.

00:13:59.960 Judo chop.

00:14:00.760 Eric falls unconscious.

00:14:02.040 He was right.

00:14:03.000 And yes, I had to repent of my.

00:14:05.520 We were all in a process of becoming far less gay than we were.

00:14:10.640 Yes.

00:14:11.240 And then the world was intent upon making us.

00:14:14.720 Yes.

00:14:15.500 And we all.

00:14:16.040 So we were all in this process of learning like, you know, sex piety.

00:14:20.220 And what did the scriptures actually teach?

00:14:21.980 Um, if we were to quote our black pastor friend from, uh, I think David Platt's church,

00:14:29.040 we were in a process and we had to process our deep emotions about Charlie Kerr.

00:14:46.940 In 2023, Indigo Sundries became one of our sponsors.

00:14:50.560 At the time, their business was little more than a side hobby, generating a couple hundred dollars a month.

00:14:55.380 But because of their partnership with us and because all of you chose to support them,

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00:15:11.320 we'd love to partner with you.

00:15:12.680 Email us at advertising at newchristendompress.com.

00:15:20.560 We've had a lot of requests for there just to be a segment called Eric does

00:15:25.760 impressions and I'm for it.

00:15:28.660 If you,

00:15:29.620 if this episode on YouTube,

00:15:31.440 let's say this,

00:15:32.260 if this episode gets more than 5,000 likes,

00:15:35.260 we will add a standing segment to the King's hall called Eric con does

00:15:40.000 impressions does impressions.

00:15:41.660 And,

00:15:42.140 and we will do that every episode that we remember that what a promise.

00:15:48.500 No,

00:15:48.880 no,

00:15:48.920 no.

00:15:49.080 every episode we'll remember i'll remember so all the background aside yeah um as you jump into

00:15:56.440 these posts i guess just your first take why what john's saying as you were reading i'm thinking

00:16:00.960 like oh my gosh this is so true this is such a problem this is so true but maybe let's just

00:16:06.740 start with the first one that you read young men in the cold open with young men uh what's going

00:16:13.880 on here what what's the problem what is he highlighting so what the reason this post just

00:16:18.500 absolutely jumped out to me the second i read it i shared it and i thought that we've got to talk

00:16:24.160 about this on bright hearth we got to talk about this on king's hall because he just like all good

00:16:28.880 parody he nailed like five to ten core truths that all of us know we see but you can't always put

00:16:37.380 your finger on it like what what is the problem with this thing what it what why does why is this

00:16:42.760 not good? What is missing? What's lacking here? And one of those is just that in the church today,

00:16:48.420 we have a huge lack in the area of practical discipleship in the real applications of what

00:16:56.540 sexed piety looks like in life today. Crisis of fatherhood and motherhood, where even if you have

00:17:02.800 a father and a mother, many of them didn't receive good training. Our culture and economy has done a

00:17:08.720 very good job of deracinating us, of cutting us off from the roots of our people and intergenerational

00:17:15.240 discipleship. People aren't learning how to do things. Um, like you, it's common that your dad

00:17:20.520 or your grandfather might have just known intuitively, or they learned how to fix their

00:17:25.420 truck when it broke down, or they knew how to, you know, set a carburetor. They knew how to do

00:17:29.720 all these things, fix a gutter, install a door, fix your faucet, all these different real life

00:17:36.520 skills, but then also very like core skills, like how to make money, you know, advance in your

00:17:42.860 career, how to raise young children. That's not the gospel though, Brian. And yes, exactly. So

00:17:50.260 I have a few questions. Yeah. Number one, how dare you? Okay. That's all I have. That's all I have.

00:17:55.660 Yeah. Wow. Like kids are so entitled these days. Well, you're right. So practical wisdom. Yeah.

00:18:02.240 it's just is lacking. It's lacking. It seems like that was part of,

00:18:06.480 it would have been part of like folk culture or, you know,

00:18:10.420 just all the little things that you end up as I'm experiencing this as my kids

00:18:14.500 grow up, you know, move out of the house, start their own families.

00:18:17.800 There is so much just practice. What do I do in this situation?

00:18:20.960 What should I do here? How do I do a car insurance?

00:18:23.080 Like there's so much to be passed on.

00:18:26.540 And I think that what John's getting at is that our solutions typically in the

00:18:30.520 church are, here's a book and here's a conference. Again, we do a conference. They can be beneficial,

00:18:37.580 but even for us, like it's, it's very rare. We're actually trying to create an environment for the

00:18:43.920 whole family where everybody can benefit, be blessed. We provided the conference, like,

00:18:50.080 you know, special area for like nursing, bouncing kids, whatever. We're doing all these things.

00:18:54.920 uh i saw this from samuel say the other day on x and he was encouraging the young ladies to leave

00:19:01.700 their families and go to it's like the firing arrows conference with ali best stuckey i'm i am

00:19:08.200 ready to hear some wisdom did you already sign lexi up it i must have lost the email yeah i

00:19:15.920 actually think if i signed up they would say we know who you are please don't come you're not

00:19:20.380 actually allowed in the event please please don't come but you see it's this thing where you're

00:19:24.760 you're you're actually so the young man is saying i need help figuring out how to run a productive

00:19:30.460 household exactly and the older man is saying here's all these programs and church activities

00:19:35.820 that actually cause more problems with you running a productive household yeah they're requiring you

00:19:42.740 to be away from the home more yes they're not actually what what you would want to get it which

00:19:47.540 is like Titus 2 type coaching of, you know what, here's how you teach the little ones to sit in

00:19:53.660 the seat while you're doing family worship. Here's how we actually do that.

00:19:57.580 And what it's missing is that someone might push back and say, well, the purpose of the church

00:20:02.360 really is doctrinal discipleship and it's training in scripture and all these things.

00:20:06.900 That is a huge part of it. But when you think about the way Paul describes or interacts with

00:20:12.760 Christian churches in his letters. He's addressing, typically his letters have this AB shape where the

00:20:19.720 first half he just goes deep on, this is the gospel, these are the riches of the glory of the

00:20:24.220 gospel, what Christ has done, what God in Christ has done for you, not because of your works, but

00:20:28.400 because of Christ and his death on the cross and his resurrection. And then he makes this pivot,

00:20:32.660 and then he says, so therefore, and then he just starts with surgical precision and with boldness

00:20:41.060 and willingness to ruffle feathers and hurt their feelings.

00:20:44.080 And here's where you're going wrong, and here's how you need to live,

00:20:47.360 and here are the problems facing you.

00:20:49.460 Ephesians 2.10 is a verse that we talk about quite a bit at Refuge,

00:20:54.400 where Paul says basically that God has in Christ saved you,

00:21:00.020 and after that, in his process of saving you,

00:21:03.840 he's laid a bunch of good works before you that you should walk in them.

00:21:07.540 so the way that life actually is most of our christian discipleship and sanctification

00:21:13.800 it's like walking so it's not a few big huge firework good works once a year i go on a mission

00:21:23.020 trip to zimbabwe and i you know build dig a well cool no it's more like walking how many steps do

00:21:28.800 you take in a day 5 000 10 000 15 000 steps in a day that's the good works of life and what what

00:21:35.840 is the context of almost all of those good works being a father being a mother working in your

00:21:40.940 vocation uh it's in its relationships with people in your life most of it is very earthy most of

00:21:47.940 your spiritual duty is going to be set in the context of very earthly obedience to just normal

00:21:54.200 life well i even think of maybe why bright hearth has resonated so much and i think particularly for

00:22:01.040 ladies, because you have a lot of these public figures who are ladies who are engaging with 0.96

00:22:06.960 politics or whatever. But I'm thinking about a lot of the conversations I know your wife has 0.99

00:22:12.440 had with the young ladies in the church. And it's things like, here's how to maintain a joyful

00:22:18.000 spirit and keep managing your household and loving your husband well when you have morning sickness.

00:22:22.960 Yep.

00:22:23.200 and here's how to put to death a grumpy attitude

00:22:28.140 when your two-year-old is causing disciplinary problems. 1.00

00:22:32.720 Like these are the things that women 0.99

00:22:34.560 ought to be teaching other women. 0.95

00:22:37.100 And we'll get to some posts about women too.

00:22:39.180 Yeah, he has another post about women.

00:22:40.860 But on the male side, I think, you know, Pastor Dan,

00:22:43.740 this has been something that I think he's done really well

00:22:45.660 with the young guys here is yes, we talk about the gospel.

00:22:48.720 Yes, we're forming people according to scripture, all that.

00:22:54.220 We're praying with them.

00:22:55.800 But a lot of the questions are like, hey, I'm behind every month.

00:23:00.760 How can I make more money?

00:23:03.020 Or, hey, I need to set up insurance.

00:23:06.660 How should I do that?

00:23:07.980 And if Dan doesn't have the answer, he will go to.

00:23:11.020 Go to Stu.

00:23:11.860 We have guys in the church who specialize in that.

00:23:14.020 Well, here's what you need to do.

00:23:15.140 Here's how I would manage that.

00:23:16.440 when people come to us and they say, we're behind. And we're like, well, I noticed you have

00:23:20.940 two brand new cars that aren't paid off. And so going through those conversations,

00:23:26.400 I think that's less sexy work. Yep. One of the problems though, I think with,

00:23:32.540 John's also getting it, A, I think a lot of older men don't actually have the answers

00:23:37.880 in today's world. Unfortunately, yes. And it's because some of that is like blindness,

00:23:43.020 But some of it's also the world that they grew up in is very different.

00:23:46.080 Yeah.

00:23:46.780 He gets at that.

00:23:47.720 Like, well, you know, when you have an old person telling you, well, you got to work hard like I did in my day.

00:23:54.260 And I'm like, well, hold on.

00:23:56.340 It's like the 1980s, like 1985, the year of my birth.

00:24:01.820 I want to say it was like $70,000.

00:24:04.120 If you made $70,000 in 1985, that's the equivalent of like $270,000 today.

00:24:10.260 Close to $300,000.

00:24:12.280 The price of homes was drastically different.

00:24:14.880 So if you are one of these older guys,

00:24:17.980 maybe a place to start is just saying,

00:24:20.140 I need to pay attention to what's going on in the world.

00:24:22.220 Even it's so bad that even in the time

00:24:25.500 between when I entered young adulthood and today,

00:24:29.120 which was 16 years ago,

00:24:31.600 I bought my first house about 16 years ago,

00:24:34.720 just out of high school.

00:24:36.220 And in Ogden, there was a place, a two bedroom condo.

00:24:39.880 It shared one wall with another condo.

00:24:41.520 had like $100 HOA fee. It was $59,000. It was 700 square feet. My wife and I lived there until

00:24:47.740 we had multiple children. My mortgage payment was $300 a month with an HOA. Can you even imagine

00:24:54.520 that today? That same place in that same community in Ogden now sells for about $200,000 for one of

00:25:02.220 those places. And the mortgage payment on that $200,000 is more like $2,500 a month, something

00:25:10.160 like that. Um, well, I remember that in college too. Like my wife and I, when we were renting

00:25:15.140 apartments, I remember getting one, it was like 600 bucks a month. And I was like, dang, this is

00:25:20.560 so expensive. Yeah. Now the cheap places to live, especially here would be like 2000 a month.

00:25:27.660 Oh, it's, and it's hard. Like to find a place where you can have children for $2,000 a month

00:25:32.860 in Ogden is difficult that you're not, especially if you don't want to be surrounded by gangbangers

00:25:37.040 or you know like kind of the latino gangbanger inner city ogden culture ghetto culture yeah

00:25:42.200 you've just you've got to be real real careful so even in the 15 year period window things have

00:25:49.220 so when i'm talking to a zoomer today or younger and they're they're asking me questions i've had

00:25:55.260 to adjust my thinking and not just import everything from my 18 years old experience

00:26:01.820 to their 18 years old experience they're not the same thing don't you think it's different for us

00:26:06.620 to like we're more of like older brothers but we're we're not boomers in the sense that like

00:26:14.260 we're still having to go out and make our bread in this world oh yeah like we're still having to

00:26:18.360 pay mortgages in this world i just had to move last year and let me just tell you it is insane

00:26:25.340 it's crazy well i think about this too when i went off to college my father was kind enough to

00:26:31.600 give me a vehicle um later we had to uh switch vehicles having kids it was like a you know a

00:26:38.920 truck yeah so switching vehicles i sold that vehicle which probably had a hundred thousand

00:26:45.200 miles on it it was like a square body chevy pickup yeah sold it i think it was 1500 bucks yeah

00:26:51.220 well now i'm having conversations with my son who's like well i'm thinking about family vehicle

00:26:55.840 once kids come yeah and he was like dad i'm i'm looking at the used car market and he's like if

00:27:02.620 you want like an suv or a suburban you're talking about a chevy suburban with 150 000 miles that's

00:27:10.380 38 000 that's insane and he's like what am i supposed to do now i'm looking that and i'm saying

00:27:17.000 okay i need to help yeah like we're gonna do use we're gonna do maintenance

00:27:22.380 but I am going to help you not just say, well, in my day, son.

00:27:30.360 And that's what's, so I think what frustrates young men is that they go to their church and

00:27:35.300 they're trying to ask these questions and their church is saying, come to this Bible study,

00:27:39.100 come to this men's prayer breakfast, come to this retreat. Bible study is good. Prayer is good.

00:27:42.480 Retreats are good. All that's fine. But they're just saying, I cannot for the life of me get

00:27:48.380 good counsel from older men about how to be in the practical piety of life, the applied

00:27:55.360 doctrine of life, how to live my life, how to make it work. And then when they do actually

00:27:59.800 start to get into it, they realize there's a big gap that's happened in terms of the economy and

00:28:03.580 the situation that makes it difficult. And then another wrinkle that I liked that John also put

00:28:07.940 into that little conversation was that many younger men today, especially in our cultures,

00:28:14.960 our church in this kind of culture, they're going, oh, even if we had a good Christian father,

00:28:21.360 they were probably propagandized by the culture of two kids in birth control, two kids in a

00:28:28.320 vasectomy, wait 10 years after you get married, then have maybe one or two. And so when they go

00:28:34.120 to ask advice and these young men have three, four, five kids in their first five to 10 years

00:28:40.220 of marriage. Well, now it's a different story. And so even practically a parent who is 50, 60,

00:28:48.300 70, or a man in the church, he doesn't have any hands-on experience in trying to lead family

00:28:54.360 worship with seven children, which is my experience right now, seven kids, 12 and under.

00:28:59.840 Is it different? Like, would you say it's different doing family worship with seven kids than one?

00:29:06.200 because i feel like that's maybe what you're getting at here it's a little bit different

00:29:11.340 it's a slightly different and also um you find that they also many of them didn't do family

00:29:18.700 worship it wasn't and i'm i'm not actually my point isn't that that older generations are stupid

00:29:24.340 that's not it at all um we are all a product to some degree or other of the cultural pressures

00:29:29.360 those form us and uh when the vast majority of your church culture is saying this is what it

00:29:35.100 looks like to be a disciple of Christ. This is what it looks like to be a man in our generation.

00:29:39.360 It's not like you would knock them for being to some degree a product of that culture.

00:29:47.300 But what we do need to realize is that we do as a church need to rally around young men and young

00:29:56.300 women and figure out how to bridge this gap. One of the challenges of it, we realized this very

00:30:04.020 early on in the church here in Ogden. We, part of it was because of Utah culture. There's only

00:30:09.740 3% or less Protestant, there are fewer than 3% Protestants in Utah. So pretty much everything

00:30:18.740 at the church, if you want it to exist, you have to make it from scratch in Utah. There is no

00:30:24.580 existing Christian education infrastructure for schools. There is no existing pastoral creation

00:30:31.300 infrastructure, seminaries, there's nothing like that. There is, there's just very little Christian

00:30:36.700 culture at all. There's a lot of Mormon culture and now a lot of a secularist culture too.

00:30:41.880 So we realized pretty early on, if we wanted to exist, we have to make it. And then we realized

00:30:47.100 that that applied to this question of older women and older men, because even the older women and

00:30:52.920 older men that we had, very few of them, but the ones that we did find, many of them were either

00:30:58.640 new converts, where they had absolutely no, they were doctrinal, they were a doctrinal mess. They

00:31:04.100 were Beth Moore and, you know, the male equivalent of Beth Moore, pretty much. They were feminist 1.00

00:31:10.700 without realizing it. They were egalitarian without realizing it. They had few children, 1.00

00:31:16.220 most of them not believers. They didn't have good fruit to point to. So I wasn't going to go to them

00:31:19.900 and say, hey, you're 60. You have believing grandchildren. Can you teach me how to do that?

00:31:24.040 They didn't have believing grandchildren. They didn't even have believing children. Most of

00:31:27.400 their children were apostate or had never been Christians at all. So we realized pretty quickly,

00:31:33.300 man, it really sucks. But us 20 year olds better figure this out by the time we're 30 so that we

00:31:39.180 can be 30 year old older men in our community. Yeah. Which sounds crazy. That's not how it's

00:31:45.540 supposed to be. But in our community, that is what it had to be. Yeah. With almost all of this stuff.

00:31:52.180 Yeah. I feel like a lot of it, if I look back at my own story, like how we got here,

00:31:55.780 it's probably similar with you and you know the other pastors here as well but

00:32:00.060 we just sort of had to do the reading be convicted about the principles and then go figure it out

00:32:08.500 yep and that was a i mean it's been a really painful hard arduous process yeah which is why

00:32:14.780 on the flip side it's like well you we're actually restarting multi-generational covenantal

00:32:21.760 post-millennial living but kind of as like gen one gen one which is very kind of a weird place

00:32:28.200 to be yeah culturally speaking and i think even it's a historical it's not the typical thing you

00:32:33.660 find in history one of the things that uh we i think critiqued in season one of the king's hall

00:32:39.300 that john is bringing up here as well is the overly programmatic version of the church yeah

00:32:44.780 good point um so we look at things like youth group that would have been the solution to a lot

00:32:48.640 of this for the boomer mega churches yeah but i was growing up in the oos you know as a young

00:32:55.600 adult the oos and then the teens being a part of church culture and going why isn't anyone asking

00:33:02.940 the question why aren't we do all this we have youth groups we give them mountain dew and video

00:33:08.880 games we build a separate building but nobody like hardly anybody is remaining a christian

00:33:16.180 And I felt like none of the pastors were going, wait a minute.

00:33:19.680 What if this is the wrong model?

00:33:21.480 What if at the foundations we have something wrong here?

00:33:24.340 Yeah.

00:33:25.320 Because I was watching all my friends go through youth group and then apostatize.

00:33:30.800 I was watching the fruit of, you know, in the SBC, this was a big thing.

00:33:35.540 It was just like, it's a well-known statistic.

00:33:38.500 It's an expectation almost, especially if you're a pastor,

00:33:42.100 but it's an expectation that your kids are not going to be Christians.

00:33:45.740 And so I was looking at that and I was saying, well, when we're in 16 programs a week for men, women, and children, and we always divide them up, right?

00:33:54.500 You always send them to a different place, Saturday morning, Tuesday night, Wednesday morning, Thursday night, Friday morning, Friday evening, whatever it is.

00:34:02.120 And a lot of churches were legitimately that crazy.

00:34:05.240 And I was like, well, wait a minute.

00:34:06.600 You're preventing families from doing family worship?

00:34:09.700 you're preventing and really circumventing fathers and mothers from doing the discipleship

00:34:15.260 and formation of their children yeah we weren't even really trying to give the parents the tools

00:34:19.900 and there was a poignant time actually in kentucky when an adult came to me because

00:34:24.800 their kid was having trouble i was one of the youth group leaders and the parent came to me

00:34:29.580 and said what are you doing to ensure that my child stays a christian like basically like this

00:34:35.900 is your job we pay you we pay you a massive twelve thousand dollar a year salary what did

00:34:43.480 you do with which i actually actually in that job i didn't even get paid you guys are getting paid

00:34:49.520 you guys are getting paid but i think the head youth pastor probably made like

00:34:53.260 you know 15 grand a year my starting salary at refuge church was 700 a month

00:34:58.420 now i still worked i still had to do yeah we've all been there so you look at that and it's like

00:35:06.160 that's all wrong yeah you know that whole model really denigrating the productive household roles

00:35:12.720 of mothers and fathers yeah it sort of reminds me that whole the church system and programs

00:35:17.740 it reminds me of the civil rights act where you're giving a state-run a institutional level

00:35:27.060 system to replace mothers and fathers and then you wonder why people are being passive

00:35:33.840 on those things yep you know what i mean when you when you have a failure systemically of culture

00:35:41.140 of the culture making institutions and mechanisms like fatherhood motherhood education all these

00:35:46.300 things one of the instincts is to try to have a programmatic centralized solution to it in the

00:35:51.540 church where you just have this top down kind of like go to this program it'll fix it because

00:35:55.980 we're seeing this problem. The answer to these problems that John is pointing at are not just

00:36:02.260 another Tuesday night thing at the church. They're actually a much more broad culture issue.

00:36:08.680 For example, when you look at all these questions that the younger man was asking,

00:36:14.320 the goal for every church and community should be that you are increasingly making the type of men

00:36:20.400 in that church that most of the average man in your church when he gets to 30, 40 and up

00:36:26.160 would be able to answer any of those questions helpfully. He'd be able to say, this is how to

00:36:30.380 think about finances. This is how to think about family worship, discipline of children. Hey, oh,

00:36:36.000 you're having issues communicating in your marriage and you and your wife are at odds.

00:36:38.800 Here's some things to think about how to lead well in your home. And then you think we'll get

00:36:43.260 to the ladies on the other side, the same kind of thing from the older women to the younger women.

00:36:48.000 You can't do that with a Thursday evening Bible study.

00:36:51.500 The only way that you can do that, and we found this to be the case in the church,

00:36:56.660 we haven't started with necessarily the whole, every family at Refuge and anybody who moves here

00:37:03.400 is already totally formed and cooked.

00:37:06.620 Some people have, they're attracted by different doctrinal ideas or the school or things like that,

00:37:11.320 but they come in and what happens?

00:37:14.020 A lot of the time it's like, oh, immediately the pastors and other men in the church, we see, well, there's discipline issues in the home.

00:37:22.680 The marriage is not doing well.

00:37:24.440 The wife is really wearing the pants in this relationship.

00:37:26.880 The man is passive or some permutation of that.

00:37:30.160 So what do we do?

00:37:31.100 Well, we go dive into that family and say, husband, let's coach you practically on how to do these really like very foundational constituent parts of being a Christian man, sexed piety.

00:37:45.460 And then we're actually going to use the mechanisms of shepherding, discipline, all of these different mechanisms to enforce them.

00:37:54.180 It's not just a couple sermons of like, hey, make sure you discipline your children.

00:37:58.540 It's legitimately like in our membership process,

00:38:01.800 when someone's coming through,

00:38:03.000 we're talking about the discipline of children.

00:38:04.840 We're asking them how it's going in their home.

00:38:07.020 We see an issue.

00:38:08.680 Every week we have an elders meeting.

00:38:10.180 We might have a thing where it's like,

00:38:11.480 hey, I noticed this family and this family,

00:38:13.980 there's some real discipline issues on Sunday.

00:38:16.660 Do out, who's gonna go talk to them?

00:38:19.640 And not in like a, not in a knocking on your door,

00:38:24.140 Gestapo type of way, but like, we love you.

00:38:27.700 We want, we don't want you to be, so it's, it's this kind of active, not waiting for permission to come and offer help, but going in and assuming that I am my brother's keeper, that it is my job so that you who are spiritual, those who are mature in the church can actively jump in.

00:38:46.600 And that's the only way to make this kind of culture over time is a lot of hands-on shepherding, getting in, and then not just the pastors, but as you create more and more of those men in the church and more and more of those women, what happens is all of a sudden that woman who five years ago was a wreck, all of a sudden you look over your shoulder and you go, she's coaching that young married wife on how to do all this stuff and doing it well.

00:39:13.860 How'd that happen?

00:39:14.740 all five years of really hard work from the women in the church and the pastors in the church and 0.88

00:39:18.960 the culture of the church. There's no, there's no magic bullet, silver bullet. There's no easy

00:39:23.400 button. It's all really hard. This is why I love John because John, like he posts like this because

00:39:31.420 he talks like this in real life. Um, he was like, you know, we're always fussing about obesity in

00:39:37.000 the church. I've been to potlucks with some of you guys. I've seen you pile your plate with 2,500

00:39:41.600 calories go back and do it again y'all gonna be fat if you keep that up you need to eat less you

00:39:47.900 know 10 000 steps you need to lift your weights do some judo like what the heck are you doing

00:39:52.620 and he will go tell people that at the when i met john it was at michael foster's uh county before

00:40:00.480 country conference in like 2021 and we were uh michael had put us in the same house like him

00:40:09.440 john and his wife and me and lexi and i think i was like doing music there or something

00:40:13.840 and uh i just saw john like probably three different times absolutely rebuke someone for

00:40:21.720 being fat and then but the thing is like he backed it up he was like out there walking

00:40:27.480 a couple miles early in the morning like he wasn't like i'm on vacation i'm gonna take it easy he was

00:40:34.700 like out there like i ran into another time at another conference we were both at i ran i was

00:40:42.140 on my way into a waffle house to consume an ungodly amount of soybean oil okay and i see john

00:40:52.020 come out of the darkness it was like late at night john come out of the darkness like briskly

00:40:58.620 walking, getting his exercise and looking

00:41:00.700 at us like

00:41:01.340 I know, where are you going?

00:41:05.600 Nowhere.

00:41:06.560 You've seen the memes. We were about to just go

00:41:08.340 do some push-ups. You've seen the memes

00:41:10.860 where they took like the

00:41:12.080 movie shot from Inglourious Bastards

00:41:14.640 and it's RFK Jr.

00:41:16.820 And he's like, you're hiding

00:41:18.460 soybeans under the floorboards, are you not?

00:41:21.920 That's John.

00:41:22.700 That's John. That's why his T is 800

00:41:24.180 Natty. But it's actually helpful

00:41:26.460 especially if you've been to like Southern

00:41:28.400 potluck culture oh dude i remember even at that event we we did go to one event and there there

00:41:33.620 were a lot of there were a lot of larger hefty people hefty boys and i think it was like it was

00:41:41.600 a huge pizza party and john was like you think we ought to be giving these people pizza you think

00:41:48.520 that's what they need right now but i think the other thing that people don't realize is it's

00:41:53.320 because john loves people exactly he's an older man who he's fought he's learned he knows what

00:41:59.320 he's doing and he's like i don't want you guys to be fat miserable passive weak losers i want you to

00:42:04.600 be strong christian men and the thing is this is why it really sucks but it's also there's hope

00:42:11.340 is because one man like that in a community can turn things around one man who's tenacious enough

00:42:19.020 to be like i'm going to be a problem i'm going to make these people uncomfortable that's my life

00:42:22.800 motto we're gonna walk i am gonna be a i'm gonna be the one that has the hard conversation

00:42:27.700 and in in a loving he's he's not a jerk but in a loving way in a kind way in a in the right

00:42:34.540 setting and context i love the uh it's another like short clip but vince vaughn where he's like

00:42:42.980 look we don't need to go around pointing fingers you're a problem you're a real problem

00:42:48.380 um so good i i think it's also part of the like niceness gospely centered gospeliness culture

00:42:56.280 yeah that like you don't speak to these issues the gospel gospel culture the gospel gospel

00:43:01.720 culture yeah um but i think john does that well the the other example i would give i have a friend

00:43:06.580 um who i was commenting to him a lot of kids uh you know wonderful households his wife is lovely

00:43:13.680 and I've hung out a lot with him and I said, how did you guys get this way? And he said, well,

00:43:19.600 there was a point in our life where we were kind of a wreck. He was like, I was doing a poor job

00:43:25.140 leading. Um, I was working like this low level job. My wife was actually working and making more

00:43:31.040 than I was. We had like one kid and he said, it was actually Scott Brown, um, from the church and

00:43:38.240 family stuff, uh, who had met him somehow at an event. And he said, I want you to come over to

00:43:44.160 my house. And so he said, yeah, it was great. He invited us over and his wife was like taking

00:43:52.000 walks with, you know, Scott's wife and like coaching her. And, and, and he said, you know,

00:43:57.700 Scott was doing stuff with the kids I'm watching and I see the way he's disciplining. And, and

00:44:03.160 then you know he's giving me coaching and he was just telling me like that time spent at their

00:44:09.740 house changed my life because you know and he said like the kids were kind of disrespectful

00:44:15.720 and so scott you know says to him like i've i've kind of noticed that your kids are kind of

00:44:20.100 disrespectful like and he but he got into like hey i love you here's what you need to do to

00:44:25.100 address that practically here's what discipline should look like here's what the conversation

00:44:28.840 should look like yeah if it's a book recommendation it's it's not like here's this gospely gospel

00:44:34.540 gospel book about how your children are all wonderful image bearers yes we know what you

00:44:39.140 need is reb reb bradley's book child training tips which is like your kids are bad because

00:44:44.100 you're a bad parent let me explain it just goes through and even good parents in that book will

00:44:49.720 be like oh oops but it's really it's practical it's helpful yeah very practical so so just

00:44:56.140 thinking for a better pattern for the church and john hasn't written the one for men yet i was

00:45:02.080 texting him and he said he's really busy but he is going to write one that's like the positive

00:45:06.700 example yeah we'll close this episode with the positive maybe we should read the women one here

00:45:11.820 yeah that would be good yeah but i would just point people to that example of like invite people

00:45:16.060 in your home allow them to see you know show them what family worship looks like pour into them uh

00:45:22.880 and give the practical. Yeah. Um, so I think you're going to read the younger women. Let me

00:45:27.800 read the corresponding, the analogous one for women from the cold open and we'll end the episode.

00:45:33.040 We'll read the good example that John wrote from the older to the younger woman. Okay.

00:45:37.380 Younger woman. Hey, miss Anne. I was wondering, I really want to grow as a wife and mom and better

00:45:42.700 serve the Lord in my home and with my husband and kids. Can you help me? Older woman. That is great.

00:45:48.400 We're just about to start our newest women's ministry discipleship rotation, and this time

00:45:53.700 I'll be teaching the women Nehemiah and Ezra. Young woman. Oh, that's well and all, but I really

00:46:00.080 want to learn how to love and honor my husband better and how to keep the home running more

00:46:04.480 orderly. It's been so stressful, especially when he gets home from work. I've really been struggling

00:46:09.400 with older woman. And then once a month, the women's book group is going to be doing Grudem

00:46:14.940 systematic theology? Young woman. Yeah, my husband is already going through a catechism with the

00:46:20.320 family though, and aren't the elders doing a theology class before church during the discipleship

00:46:24.760 class every Sunday morning? Older woman. And we're memorizing the 1689 London Baptist? Younger woman.

00:46:31.860 Well, my husband already has us memorizing psalms together. I just don't know as tired and as little

00:46:37.360 sleep as I'm getting if I could really add any of this in. Do you know how to get little kids to

00:46:42.000 sleep better and to sleep more quickly we often aren't getting to bed until after 10 and my

00:46:46.800 husband has to be up for work at 4 30 older woman and you should consider coming on our quarterly

00:46:51.940 four-day women's retreat all the older moms make it young woman well um i'm already really badly

00:46:59.120 behind on the cleaning and laundry and cooking and we just started homeschool with our oldest and

00:47:03.560 we don't have anyone to watch the kids what i'm looking for is someone who can teach me how to

00:47:09.080 keep my home better and have it run more smoothly. For instance, how do you get any laundry done with

00:47:14.300 three under five? They seem to make messes faster than older woman. This quarter's event is me and 1.00

00:47:20.320 Marla teaching the book of Ephesians. Younger woman, didn't the elders of the church just

00:47:25.140 preach through the book of Ephesians? Doesn't the Bible say it's their job to teach the Bible

00:47:29.220 and theology? And if I have questions, I should ask my husband. Older woman, and I bet you would

00:47:34.000 really benefit from reading J.I. Packer's Knowing God. Younger woman, probably, but right now I just

00:47:39.880 really want to know how to manage my home and love my husband and kids better. Older woman, 0.99

00:47:44.720 hopefully see you Wednesday for the ladies' tea and Bible study. Younger woman, well, we have 0.91

00:47:49.920 doctor's appointments that morning and I still need to find someone to sit with the two younger 0.94

00:47:53.620 kids while I run Silas into. This isn't too far off from what we've personally experienced

00:47:58.860 and what we have seen in many churches for two decades.

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00:51:00.960 something that lasts yeah so brian a couple really good points i think that john makes

00:51:07.160 about the younger woman older woman conversation first thing i noticed in the way that he paints

00:51:12.340 it as just like how tone deaf and the older woman, like very obnoxious.

00:51:16.780 No, you don't understand. 0.89

00:51:18.300 Me teaching you a precept study on the book of Ezra is going to help you be a better mom.

00:51:23.720 Yeah.

00:51:24.460 Somehow.

00:51:25.420 Somehow.

00:51:26.140 There's a few problems. 1.00

00:51:27.360 Number one, women's ministries are often circumventing the scriptures. 1.00

00:51:31.620 Yes. 1.00

00:51:31.960 As the younger woman actually pointed out here.

00:51:34.080 That's number one.

00:51:35.320 Number two, I would point out as well, I've noticed this a lot in churches that there's

00:51:41.520 that generational divide where you remember when it was all about like small groups i can remember

00:51:47.300 like cj mahoney and that church it was like all about the small group and it was like a small

00:51:51.220 church within the church usually run by someone who was definitely not qualified to be a pastor

00:51:55.780 um so you would have kind of that dynamic but then what it would also do is it would

00:52:02.200 it didn't account for the fact of young large families no right it was really geared toward

00:52:09.780 like maybe a couple with one or two kids or older people and i remember years ago reading a book by

00:52:17.040 presbyterian don't remember it was about family worship and he said something that this was like

00:52:21.180 a very light red pill moment for me but he was like you know actually family worship has been

00:52:27.620 practiced by the historical church there's literally nothing in scripture that says we

00:52:32.760 need to be out of our homes like doing small groups all the time that's probably a season

00:52:37.000 of life thing when you're like your kids are all out of the house and and yeah you might have more

00:52:44.420 time to like go golfing with your friends or do stuff like that and even then i started to ask

00:52:49.760 the question you know the young lady she's like well i don't have anyone to watch my kids i'm like

00:52:55.420 this is gonna blow blow minds what if the grandparents were around helped no yeah that's

00:53:05.520 insane like hear me out instead of going did you come up with this i did i just thought of it on

00:53:11.640 the spot oh my instead of going to hilton head for the holidays okay what if you were with your

00:53:18.220 family okay and then you saw your daughter or your son or your daughter-in-law you saw them

00:53:24.820 struggling with all the kids and hear hear this groundbreaking you helped i don't think that's

00:53:33.320 I don't think that's possible. It's not possible. I think you're being unrealistic. Yeah. I think

00:53:38.000 you're being unrealistic. The thing is they already worked. They put their time in. That's

00:53:42.400 right. You're on your own. Good luck. Good luck. It is so frustrating to hear that fake conversation

00:53:49.700 because it's a real conversation. It's not fake. That is that conversation has happened a million

00:53:54.840 times. I remember early in the history of the church, I had become a senior pastor a few years

00:54:00.420 before starting to really question some of these things and practicing the fruit they're producing.

00:54:05.480 And one of the first things was just, why do we have ladies, Bible teacher, theology ladies? 0.99

00:54:13.820 Where does the Bible authorize me as the pastor to say, we need older women teaching systematic

00:54:19.560 theology, precept studies through books of the Bible, when we have this huge need for older

00:54:25.760 women to teach the younger women how to order their households, how to love their husbands

00:54:28.720 and children well, things like, I don't know, Titus 2 talks about. And so I started meeting with,

00:54:34.740 at that time, the women's ministry team and, you know, started asking these questions. What if we

00:54:39.880 did, what if we really focused this direction with the teaching? Well, but we really want to

00:54:43.960 do this study in Ephesians. We really want to do, okay, yeah, but I'm actually preaching every Sunday

00:54:48.120 verse by verse through whole books of the Bible, doing Sunday school, this kind of thing. That's

00:54:52.140 my job. The Bible authorizes me. But Titus 2 here says, you should really be focused on this.

00:54:57.860 And can I just tell you how many of those women remained at the church?

00:55:01.940 All of them?

00:55:03.000 None of them.

00:55:03.860 Oh, wow.

00:55:04.900 They all left.

00:55:05.440 I was 100% wrong.

00:55:07.600 They all left.

00:55:09.200 And the reason was that for them, they had become quasi-elders

00:55:14.700 and viewed it as their right and calling from God to be able to do this.

00:55:20.440 But the crazy thing was that a lot of them didn't even have believing children.

00:55:24.420 It was just this like moment of, what am I doing?

00:55:26.820 why am I, why are these women, why are they don't have any good fruit? Okay. Are there any women

00:55:31.000 with good fruit? And this was the hard thing. There were not to be had women over 40 that

00:55:38.280 knew a thing about how to raise Christian children. And the reason I know is because

00:55:42.280 their children weren't Christians. You might have to walk me through that again.

00:55:47.360 That was really confusing. Their children weren't Christians.

00:55:50.480 I think, and this is maybe what a lot of people don't understand. I've had these conversations

00:55:55.180 in several of the very reformed camps,

00:56:00.480 the ones that would be most adjacent to us,

00:56:03.240 where I've said the same thing to pastors in those churches.

00:56:07.400 Like, I just have a simple question.

00:56:12.080 Nowhere in scripture are women authorized

00:56:14.000 to do that kind of theological teaching,

00:56:17.500 particularly at that level in the church.

00:56:20.580 And one of them was an instance where it's like, 0.86

00:56:22.640 the ladies, my wife went to like a women's ministry thing. And I was like, okay, this is

00:56:28.560 kind of as we're figuring this out. And I said, well, what'd you guys talk about? Cause I thought

00:56:33.700 it was like, they're going to make like crafts and drink tea, whatever. Fine. She's like, well,

00:56:39.000 the lady who led it was an elder's wife. And she started doing like expositional teaching

00:56:44.520 through the book of Romans. And she said, but more than that, several of the things that she

00:56:50.820 said clearly contradicted the text and things that you've told me about romans so i went to

00:56:56.660 the pastor and the elders because i wasn't one that was your first mistake and i said hey let

00:57:02.840 me read you a passage of scripture about women and their roles um being quiet versus being

00:57:09.080 authorized to teach in the church a couple passages let's walk me through this and i said

00:57:13.740 how does this practice equate with what you're doing and they said oh well and here was here

00:57:19.700 was the the concluding thing in all of it it was their wives who really wanted to do it

00:57:28.940 and they they were they were like well look we probably agree with you but it's going to cause

00:57:34.940 waves yeah um it did cause waves um and i think for the remainder of any interaction we had i got

00:57:42.220 the stink eye from those ladies for just bringing it up and saying like but i don't think that's

00:57:47.120 what scripture teaches if i'm wrong please show me right so i guess my point in all of that is

00:57:52.500 people are quick and you know our circles whatever they're quick to say like oh yeah

00:57:58.840 matt chandler's church is really bad about stuff like that they have like jen wilkins

00:58:02.640 yeah or they're like yeah david platt's church i'm like no no no no no no no i'm talking about

00:58:08.280 the one the denominations that are seen as like no we're the we're the truly reformed yeah we're

00:58:14.220 the conservatives, it becomes an issue here. And, you know, a big part of that too, I think is just

00:58:20.160 saying, as you guys had to do in your church situation, being a good quality male leader

00:58:27.100 and saying, yeah, I'm not going to let your empathy control me and actually. Nope. Or your

00:58:34.460 feelings. And the outcome of all the women leaving that I, and I was not, guys, I was not rude. I

00:58:40.560 didn't even have fully formed convictions on all this stuff all the way through kind of came about

00:58:45.080 them did more study and then came to very solid like no this is historic patriarchal order of

00:58:49.420 the home the church etc society they all left and they were very huffy about it very hurt

00:58:55.640 and since they were sincere they believed that i was wrong and evil but genuinely but and they

00:59:03.920 still do probably to this day but the the fruit since making that change oh it's so good

00:59:10.600 Like maybe we should just describe a little bit

00:59:12.600 of how our church handles these things now

00:59:14.220 because people are going, okay, not that, but what?

00:59:17.560 So the way that we think about women's ministry

00:59:19.480 is it's not, we call it the ministry of women, basically.

00:59:22.920 And it's, this is gonna sound really complex.

00:59:26.320 In Titus 2, Paul says to do a certain thing.

00:59:30.360 And then here's what we do.

00:59:31.500 We do that thing.

00:59:33.100 It's crazy. 0.97

00:59:34.480 He says, teach the older women, 0.98

00:59:36.360 teach the younger women to be workers at home,

00:59:38.160 to love your husband and children.

00:59:39.820 so that the, you know, teach what is good to, so that the word of God may not be reviled. We're

00:59:45.220 like, that's a big deal. If we don't do this, the word of God is going to be reviled. So let's,

00:59:49.840 let's make sure we do this. So we have all sorts of contexts where, for example, we have a context

00:59:55.940 where we try to align it with the actual reality of the women in the church. So they all have lots

01:00:02.900 of young kids or a lot of them do. So it's like, Hey, who can make it this Wednesday morning at 10

01:00:07.960 a.m before lunch and nap time to a public park where we're going to be right there by the park

01:00:14.500 and the kids are all going to go be able to run around and play and have a good time and we're

01:00:18.020 going to have a quick we're gonna have a little discussion around sometimes a practical chapter

01:00:22.360 of like uh they're going through a charlotte mason book on early childhood years right now

01:00:26.220 which is all about moms helping their kids learn really basic skills and reading reading writing

01:00:32.560 arithmetic but like also just how to be a human being because that's what mothers do they teach 1.00

01:00:37.720 their kids how to be human beings. And so Lexi and a couple other older women in the church that 1.00

01:00:43.540 have experience in this and good fruit in it go, here's, let's work through this. What questions

01:00:47.600 do you ladies have? Oh, Hey, how do you, how do you teach your kids the ABCs? Like, Oh, great. 1.00

01:00:52.680 That's a great question. Here's how do you like little kids eating when they're, when they're

01:00:57.380 eight months old and 18 months old and two months old, how do you handle that? Great question.

01:01:01.460 Here's how we've handled getting them weaned onto food. Like they're all these super practical

01:01:07.040 questions, that's just one context where the ladies can come, they can ask any question they 1.00

01:01:13.620 have. It's a repeatable context. One thing you can have is like, if you just have a few older 1.00

01:01:19.160 women in the church who are mature, they can get completely inundated. If you just have everything 0.99

01:01:24.360 be, they're always available for one-on-one counseling. That's not really feasible for a

01:01:29.520 lot of these women either. So if you can establish some contexts, will you offer some help?

01:01:35.220 yeah i think of all the number of conversations that our wives have yeah with younger ladies

01:01:40.980 dozens a week you know parking out i was talking to somebody recently parking out she ran into 0.96

01:01:46.320 your wife and was like hey can i ask you a quick question and then it was interesting because a

01:01:50.780 younger gal and she said um i'd like to hear more i know you're really busy with kids maybe one day

01:01:56.420 i could come and help you with them yeah and kind of watch and ask some more questions okay so like

01:02:02.680 Those are the contexts where it's happening.

01:02:04.940 But also, I know my wife has had conversations with young moms who are like, okay, I've got four under four or five.

01:02:12.920 I am really struggling to get dinner on the table.

01:02:16.280 And so my wife is having conversations like, okay, here's like 10 of the meals that I would rely on in those crazy years. 0.90

01:02:24.480 Got us through.

01:02:25.080 And they were like, she was like, the kids would go down for nap.

01:02:28.800 I had a rice cooker, which is like one of the greatest inventions ever made.

01:02:33.600 It's really simple.

01:02:34.800 You throw the rice in.

01:02:35.840 And she said, I would put chicken in a crock pot with a couple other things, chicken salsa.

01:02:40.760 That way, literally prep time is like 10 max, 10 max minutes.

01:02:46.860 And then she said, and then the moment my husband walks in the door and the kids are ready, like we just serve it.

01:02:53.500 Yep. 0.69

01:02:54.020 And she's like, have like 10 of those meals on rotation. 1.00

01:02:56.480 stop trying to make a 15 course you know michelin rated meal every night everything is you grind

01:03:03.800 your own flour my wife does grind her own flour for quite a bit of things now but interestingly

01:03:10.280 this has increased as some of our older kids have become helpful yes so now like ari loves to cook

01:03:16.960 and so he'll say mom can i can i bake this thing and she's like yeah that's great or

01:03:21.940 Daphne our oldest little little lady yeah Daphne you can totally handle this part of dinner and

01:03:27.960 then a little more fun and stuff but like yeah that just great practical knowing the seasonal

01:03:32.480 changes I I know even my wife has told somebody recently because they were like I got all these

01:03:37.700 little kids I feel really pressured to be like doing the sourdough and grinding my own grain

01:03:41.920 and my wife just said to her what is more important your people or the bread you don't need to do

01:03:49.680 that and she literally told her she's like honestly and it sounds like in the season you're

01:03:53.740 going through like god is not going to judge you if you buy bread buy bread it's not a big deal

01:03:59.280 we tell our our people all the time you know wives can get this idea we talk about this on

01:04:03.280 bright earth a lot like i can't afford to buy organic everything and we're like we don't buy

01:04:07.480 organic everything do you think we could afford to buy or the bougiest organic we can't that's

01:04:13.140 not possible for our family go to costco it's gonna be fine it'd be better for you to not be

01:04:18.660 hugely in debt and feed your, your family, the normal chicken, then like the $18, a chicken,

01:04:25.520 bougie chicken that like listens to NPR. Like that's fine too. John, John's probably mad at

01:04:31.660 me at this point. No, but I think, I think he would, he would agree with a lot of the principles

01:04:36.800 I'm talking about. Even on Breithearth right now, we've been doing a series called on being human,

01:04:41.080 where we're talking about the physical, spiritual, social, and vocational skills that it takes to

01:04:45.220 become a competent normal human being a man or a woman and it's these practical like those episodes

01:04:52.820 are basically a distillation of a thousand conversations we've had in the church like for

01:04:57.680 example we did a couple on body composition like how do you not be hugely fat how how do you actually

01:05:04.800 women like how do you not let the rope go in the midst of a pregnancy every two years like a child 0.99

01:05:11.280 born every two, that's hard. So Lexi's going through and like, no, here's what I ate. Here's

01:05:16.760 what I learned. Here's all these, and they're hard fought lessons that we didn't know when we

01:05:21.920 were 20, but now we do go listen to that series. If you're looking for some practical stuff on,

01:05:29.320 on these, but like, this is what people think that a huge amount, a huge percentage of church

01:05:35.400 life should be devoted to expository Bible studies when historically, like there's word

01:05:44.280 and sacrament, there's training of the people, but the majority of our good works are going to

01:05:50.200 be lived out. When I was going to say, even, even the number of ladies in the church that I've

01:05:56.820 counseled who have said the thing that made a difference for them. And I've seen the text,

01:06:02.360 Like they're like, this is what Lexi sent me.

01:06:04.800 And it was like, Hey, I know things are really hard.

01:06:07.500 I'm praying for you this morning.

01:06:09.320 Here's three things to keep in mind as you love your husband well today.

01:06:13.080 Yep.

01:06:13.400 I just want to encourage you.

01:06:14.940 Yep.

01:06:15.260 And the thing is about Lexi, she is both sweet, but we've talked about this before. 1.00

01:06:20.760 She's direct with ladies in a way that's like. 0.99

01:06:24.220 Very direct. 1.00

01:06:25.060 Like she'll straight up say to a lady, you're kind of acting crazy.

01:06:28.260 Are you on your period?

01:06:29.040 and they'll be like uh yeah why did why are you asking yes but it's like she's able to do that

01:06:37.900 and what you want to encourage in the life of the church is on the men's side that the men are doing

01:06:43.420 this and with the ladies that this is happening as well and and you simply can't do it if a you

01:06:50.380 adopt all the boomer framing of everything and b if you're just so busy with programs yeah like

01:06:56.700 I've noticed a lot in the church culture I grew up in that you would have absolutely massive

01:07:03.420 issues with children, like rebellious children, apostatizing children, probably 70 to 90% of kids

01:07:10.820 I went to youth group with apostatized from the faith and some huge percentage of their parents

01:07:15.680 also divorced. So we've, we've got all these issues, but the culture of the, of church was

01:07:21.180 not like I'm my brother's keeper. I'm going to go and say, Hey, what's going on with discipline

01:07:25.260 here. Have you thought about this? Have you really learned how to train your children in the faith?

01:07:29.820 Have you thought about education in your marriage? Like, are you leading well? Women, are you

01:07:35.140 submissive to your husband? Are you honoring him? Are you respectful to him? Learning the practical 0.53

01:07:39.260 tools of how to do these. They are not generally caught in a book or two. They're generally,

01:07:44.900 cause we'll have people, we'll give them a great book. And then you like see them six months later,

01:07:50.480 disciplining their kid. And they're, and you're like, what are you doing over there? Like, well,

01:07:53.880 I'm doing what the book said. You're like, the book didn't say what you just did.

01:07:57.980 They're not, they're not able to always map it onto their, like we've had,

01:08:00.620 just as an example, like you see a parent on a Sunday, like give their kid a spanking,

01:08:07.720 like down in the basement of the church. If a kid's acting up in service, parents can come

01:08:11.380 give them a talking tour or whatever correction. And, um, you know, you see a parent like spank

01:08:17.140 their kid and it's like a little swat over the diaper. And the kid's like, I don't know what

01:08:22.320 this is supposed to do, but this does not move me at all. Like it's not even a spanking. And then

01:08:27.700 you go and find out they thought that they were doing what they had been told to do. Someone had

01:08:32.600 to see it and say, Hey, and then love them enough to go up and say, can I give you some feedback?

01:08:38.460 Can I give you some coaching here? Well, and this is, this is the way life works. I realized this

01:08:43.120 in firearms training years ago where you would have like an hour of in-class instruction. You're

01:08:48.060 like okay i know what to do and you'd go on the range and you'd have a trainer watching the line

01:08:52.440 as everybody's shooting and he would come up to you and he would say something like

01:08:55.360 i'm sorry what are you doing and he's like you're slapping the trigger and i'm like no no i'm

01:09:01.680 squeezing and he's like no do you see how there are no holes on the paper where they're supposed

01:09:06.880 to be holes but that's actually how humans work is that there's teaching yeah and then there's

01:09:12.580 practical instruction with quick feedback so this is why i also think that hospitality portion is

01:09:18.420 important because i have to be able to watch somebody how they are running a dinner table i

01:09:23.480 have to be able to watch you know when their kid lips off and they ignore it and then and then it's

01:09:28.720 great because you can say hey can i and usually the funny thing is i don't ask can i i'm like hey

01:09:34.500 here's the deal it's like i'm not asking permission i'm the captain now look at me

01:09:40.120 But it really is just saying like, hey, that's not good.

01:09:44.320 Here's how you need to deal with that.

01:09:46.020 You can't do that.

01:09:47.360 When a two-year-old sins and they're like, now, do you think that that was helpful?

01:09:54.780 And you're like, oh, no, at this stage, they actually listen through their rear end.

01:10:01.400 That's how they listen.

01:10:02.820 Yeah, they need the simulated consequence of the much bigger consequence they'll receive later in life if they keep walking in that sin.

01:10:08.500 yes which is prison yeah that's right or death yeah that's exactly right um if you don't

01:10:15.300 jordan peterson actually pointed this out when he was less gay when he was sober and less gay

01:10:19.560 less gay um but just that he was actually a fan of like discipline of you know physical

01:10:24.740 corporeal discipline of children because he said well the thing is like if you don't do it now

01:10:28.940 when it's light in in con you know it's very it's very light they're going to go to prison

01:10:33.680 there's the physical ramifications of their disobedience are going to be far

01:10:38.020 greater at the societal levels.

01:10:39.820 And so you want to address that now.

01:10:42.700 We're going to get into the final, which was the positive.

01:10:45.760 Yeah.

01:10:45.920 It's a good conversation.

01:10:47.260 What it might sound like.

01:10:48.120 This is going to be like, what a good conversation.

01:10:50.200 If you're older woman to younger woman.

01:10:52.120 Yeah.

01:10:52.600 We'll probably close with that.

01:10:55.240 So as we do just any kind of final.

01:10:59.440 Yeah.

01:10:59.960 Final charge, final words.

01:11:01.440 One thing I would say is I would just encourage people, if you haven't, if you're a King Saul listener and you benefited from this, if you haven't checked out Bright Hearth, that's a great show.

01:11:12.640 It sounds, I'm going to be honest, I started the Hard Bend podcast.

01:11:16.260 I thought Bright Hearth is kind of girly.

01:11:18.700 It's kind of a girly show.

01:11:20.440 Then I listened to it.

01:11:22.100 And I was like, this is actually like wildly helpful.

01:11:26.220 I would say as a man, too, this is another plug for the show.

01:11:29.760 I have benefited so richly from Lexi's wisdom on the practical stuff.

01:11:36.680 As I'm hearing it, I've gleaned so much pastorally for like,

01:11:40.460 oh, wow, that is a really great way to address the sins of a lady.

01:11:44.520 Because pastors, we pastor men and women. 0.53

01:11:46.960 Yes.

01:11:47.480 And there's been times where, you know, we're working on situations.

01:11:51.020 I might ask Lexi, like, I know that you've talked to this person

01:11:53.940 or you've done this over here.

01:11:54.920 Like, what did you say?

01:11:56.920 And usually, Brian, when she tells me, I'm like, I need to go harder.

01:12:02.000 Yeah, I need to go way harder.

01:12:04.080 I need to go harder.

01:12:05.060 Yeah, yeah.

01:12:05.580 So a lot of practical wisdom I think would be helpful if you're a husband, if you're

01:12:09.660 a wife, if you're a young family thinking about what kind of vision you want for your

01:12:13.480 future family, you guys kind of go through all of it.

01:12:16.780 So I would just encourage people to check that out.

01:12:18.660 Yeah, if you haven't started season one, we walk through the rooms of the house and talk

01:12:21.600 very practically about how to be a Christian in that room of the house, how to be a husband,

01:12:24.960 father mother you know all these different things the current series we're doing as well is very

01:12:30.180 practical multiple parts on the physical self multiple parts on the spiritual self like personal

01:12:36.360 piety family piety multiple on social like the whole thesis of the social portion we haven't

01:12:41.800 recorded it yet um it'll it'll be continuing into 2026 is uh how not to be super weird

01:12:48.440 which we've discovered a lot of people need help with well first of all you want to take like a

01:12:54.300 bottle of Tylenol every day of your pregnancy. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's bad medical

01:13:01.400 advice. That's a joke. Yeah. And then vocational. So homemaking for the wife and then also, um,

01:13:07.340 vocation for men. Um, and our goal in this, it's very a Titus two type of type of show. So Lexi's

01:13:13.500 speaking very directly to ladies and how to be a godly woman. I'm speaking to that too. And also

01:13:19.100 adding in quite a bit for men. We have men and women who listen to the show and it's not a Bible

01:13:25.240 study. It's not systematic theology. It's just, it's productive Christian household stuff. The

01:13:31.320 last thing is really that I would say, I would say, number one, don't underestimate the power

01:13:36.740 of one godly man or woman in a community that will start because most people don't know where

01:13:43.260 to start. Most churches have nothing. This is just, there's very little of what we're describing

01:13:48.320 going on correctly in these churches. So don't lose heart, but be willing to be the one older

01:13:54.540 man who notices, who pays attention, who loves the younger men enough. Even if you're 35 and

01:14:00.960 they're 22, you're an older man if you have the wisdom on some of these things. If you're 30 and

01:14:06.380 there are 22-year-olds and they don't know their left hand from their right, look around, realize

01:14:11.260 that there aren't a bunch of wise 60-year-olds and then jump in. Don't let anybody despise you

01:14:15.400 for your youth. If we had waited until God miraculously provided a 60-year-old, fully cooked,

01:14:22.600 mature, older guy that had it all together, we would never have started here in Ogden.

01:14:27.160 We just had to say, it's our job. Don't underestimate if you're a woman who is,

01:14:32.980 you know, you love your husband and you have a good marriage and your children are obedient

01:14:37.580 and you're keeping your house in an orderly fashion and it's hard. Don't underestimate

01:14:43.040 how valuable your help can be. It's not just the pastor's job. This is the job of the saints to

01:14:49.580 love one another. So if that's you, jump in. And if you are a younger person who's frustrated

01:14:56.960 by these kinds of things, don't turn down the left-hand road of bitterness and getting really

01:15:03.920 angry at all the boomers. And you have to have mercy on them. Like realize that a lot of the

01:15:09.880 older generations, they're a product of what their pastors and what their community,

01:15:13.460 their sins common in generations that not every member of that generation walks in.

01:15:18.860 Instead of that, you go and do your best to think about the different aspects of life,

01:15:26.620 physical, spiritual, social, vocational, try to break them down into their parts. And in a sense,

01:15:33.860 be your own older man or older woman rule your own spirit go find the resources be diligent go

01:15:40.200 they are out there we try to make a lot of them and try to make them practical but there's lots

01:15:44.640 of other people out there you don't have to find a mentor who will come talk to you one-on-one

01:15:49.960 you can also because sometimes that's not possible you can find a million mentors though

01:15:55.460 who actually do have a lot practically to teach if you are willing to hear and listen

01:16:00.460 so go try to find men and women that have borne good fruit in the thing that you're trying to do

01:16:06.980 and then just figure out observe take notes apply what you're seeing rigorously

01:16:12.480 critically examine yourself am i like the spanking over the diaper thing am i really doing what this

01:16:19.300 good resource says to do or am i doing some fake halfway version of it because that's probably not

01:16:24.580 going to work. Like go and become a godly older man and older woman. And the thing is, the Lord

01:16:31.640 is faithful. I think if you, if you just, you don't have a thing and you wish you had the thing,

01:16:36.980 but you say, I guess I'm not going to be the one that gets that thing handed to me. I'm going to

01:16:41.180 be the one that works really hard and makes it possible for somebody else. There's a particular

01:16:46.000 kind of glory in that, that should encourage you, I think, to keep pressing hard in that direction.

01:16:50.720 i'm encouraged good i'm encouraged uh so we'll jump in now to the i'm gonna now read the good

01:16:56.920 example that that john wrote he's gonna write one for men as well at some point but as we record

01:17:02.140 this episode he's only written the good younger woman older woman conversation so we're just

01:17:06.960 gonna do this kind of haunted cosmos style and it's gonna be our hot clothes yeah he said like

01:17:11.960 john's excuse here was that he is busy running a productive household and doesn't just have time

01:17:17.720 to be on the internet so i mean okay john i guess so thanks for listening guys listen to this last

01:17:26.940 post here from john moody go follow him if you haven't already on twitter and everywhere else i

01:17:32.040 think it's his handles like resistance is fertile and we'll put it in the description somewhere but

01:17:37.900 john moody great great older man a lot of wisdom to share on a lot of these subjects so i definitely

01:17:44.040 recommend following him as well thanks john for letting us rip off your posts and making a king's

01:17:48.260 all episode out of it and we hope you enjoy this last one we actually have a new tagline too do we

01:17:54.200 buenos dias you have to say it like that though okay all right say it buenos dias

01:18:01.940 younger woman hey miss ann i was wondering i really want to grow as a wife and a mom and

01:18:11.800 better serve the Lord in my home and with my husband and kids. Can you help me? Older woman.

01:18:17.520 That's great. Honestly, Emily, every time I see you, it makes me so happy. You're such a wonderful

01:18:22.740 young wife and mom, and I see you really care about your husband and children. Can you share

01:18:27.160 with me what is going well in your marriage and home and what isn't? I know we only have a few

01:18:31.340 minutes. Oh, and not for or about your husband, by the way, but what are you doing well and what

01:18:36.440 are you doing poorly or struggling with? Younger wife. Well, at times I'm unsure how to honor my

01:18:42.280 husband and the home has not been running very orderly. It's been so stressful, especially when

01:18:47.780 he gets home from work. I've really been struggling with. Older woman. Oh, dearie, many of us have been

01:18:53.300 there. I take it you're pretty worn out after a day with the kids and maybe short-tempered.

01:18:57.860 Have you trained them to take a quiet time in the afternoon or? Younger woman. I never heard

01:19:03.200 any of these ideas. Thank you. They're so helpful. I just never imagined how hard it would be having

01:19:08.040 so many littles. Older woman. Oh yes, that's a challenging stage, especially when your family's 0.67

01:19:13.800 far away or isn't supportive. You know, Paul and Sharon, they're great at helping young couples

01:19:18.620 with nighttime and evening routines and helping kids sleep better. And they love having young

01:19:23.400 couples over. See signs of stress or coming to your house. No, they won't care if your place is

01:19:29.060 messy. They had eight kids. They've seen it all. Trust me. And we'll bring dinner with them for

01:19:33.420 you all. I'll let them know. And I bet tomorrow they'll have reached out to find a day that works

01:19:38.060 best for your family. Younger woman. Oh, that's such good news, but I'm already really badly 0.99

01:19:43.280 behind on cleaning and laundry and cooking. And we just started homeschool with our oldest.

01:19:47.680 The house is honestly an absolute wreck. I just don't know if we could have anyone over at the

01:19:52.240 moment. And Tim is working extra long hours to help pay off a few medical bills from the last

01:19:56.840 baby and when that nasty sickness had us have to make extra trips to the doctor. Older woman.

01:20:02.480 Why don't I come over Thursday morning? I have a few hours free and I bet my daughter and her

01:20:06.880 daughter would love to come along as well. We can all chat while we help get the house caught up

01:20:11.240 and the kids play for a little bit. In that way, I can see changes that might help with

01:20:15.800 how you're organizing and running the house and training the children. A lot of young moms just 1.00

01:20:20.320 don't realize how much their kids can do, so perhaps I can show you how to start training

01:20:24.600 them to be a help to you. Younger woman. Oh, that would be great. I honestly didn't have the best 0.59

01:20:29.920 examples growing up. I really don't know how to do a lot of these things the Bible talks about.

01:20:34.840 Older woman. And if you all have a lot of bills right now, you should suggest to your husband to

01:20:39.580 let one of the deacons know. This is exactly who and what they want some of the church's giving to

01:20:44.920 go to help. Last month, they helped another young family in the church who had issues with their old

01:20:49.480 cars a few men went and took care of most of the repairs but one needed a mechanic so the deacons

01:20:55.180 loaned the family a car while they took the vehicle to someone they trust and work with

01:20:59.260 and got it all taken care of i will have my husband mentioned to deacon steve that he should

01:21:04.380 also reach out to your husband the deacons have a schedule of families they check on each month to

01:21:08.920 ensure no needs are going unmet younger woman wow i i don't know what to say older woman gives her a

01:21:15.560 big hug and says been lovely chatting dear you and your husband are doing a great job and we see it

01:21:20.520 look forward to seeing you thursday i'll also bring lunch for everyone so you don't need to

01:21:24.700 worry about that just text me any food allergies or issues you all may have and any foods your kids

01:21:29.780 really like or dislike i see my husband so i want to go thank him for a number of things he did this

01:21:34.840 week that is a small way you can consistently honor your husband especially in front of others

01:21:39.360 i will text you a few other ideas and we can talk about it more soon younger woman thank you so much

01:21:45.060 miss him well in case you didn't know we have another king's hall show called the after hours

01:21:54.620 and it's available only to our patrons we have a great time in the after hours i play hype songs

01:21:59.820 which brian loves sometimes we even talk about brian's cut we talk about recent news on x and

01:22:04.260 answer listener questions overall it's a great time so i'd encourage you to head over to patreon.com

01:22:10.360 slash the king's hall if you'd like to support the show and get some extra content

01:22:15.060 Thank you.

The King's Hall - February 27, 2026

Why The Church Fails to Pass Down Practical Wisdom About Sexed Piety

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