Ep. 1457 - The Biden Administration’s Mishandling Of Hurricane Helene Is One Of The Greatest Scandals In American History
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Summary
The federal government has run out of money to help the victims of Hurricane Helene, but they do have enough money to dole out to illegal immigrants. Also, a 70-year-old Trump supporter is sent to prison for nine years for trying to verify the integrity of the 2020 election.
Transcript
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Today on the Matt Walsh Show, the federal government has run out of money to help the
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victims of Hurricane Helene, but they do have enough money to dole out to illegal immigrants.
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We'll take a look at that. Also, a 70-year-old Trump supporter is sent to prison for nine years
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for, she says, trying to verify the integrity of the 2020 election.
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Politico warns that J.D. Vance may seem scary to female voters because he has a beard,
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and you'll never believe it, but the internet is very mad at me. Again,
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I'll respond to the latest outrage and hopefully clear it up today.
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That and much more today on the Matt Walsh Show.
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kit today. That's Walsh to 989898. One of the excuses you always hear when there is a massive
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failure by the Biden-Harris administration is that no one could have possibly seen it coming. No one
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could have predicted that the Inflation Reduction Act would actually increase inflation. No one could
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have predicted that the Afghan government would collapse immediately after we pulled out our
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troops leading to a security breakdown and the deaths of 13 U.S. military personnel. No one
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could have predicted that shipping pallets of cash to Iran would provide funding for a new campaign
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of terrorist attacks by Iran's proxies and so on. The truth, though, of course, is that all of these
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disasters were easily foreseeable. The problem is that the people in charge of predicting the
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consequences of all these policies are either grossly incompetent or malicious. At every step,
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they have lied to Americans about what they know or should know was about to happen. And there's
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maybe no better illustration of this problem than the federal government's response to Hurricane Helene,
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which has now killed more than 200 people. And 200 people may be a gross underestimate when all is
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said and done. We still do not even know the full scale of this disaster, except that it's massive.
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So take a look at what the DHS Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas was saying just three months ago. Mayorkas,
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as head of the DHS, oversees the Federal Disaster Relief Agency, FEMA. Well, on June 21st,
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Mayorkas went in front of the cameras to boast that FEMA was, quote, tremendously prepared for the
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upcoming hurricane season. In fact, he doesn't just say that FEMA is tremendously prepared for hurricanes.
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He says that they're prepared for wildfires, extreme heat, a variety of other disasters. He can handle all of it,
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he says, watch. FEMA is tremendously prepared. This is what we do. This is what they do. And the key
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here, Rebecca, is also to make sure that the communities who are potentially impacted are
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prepared as well. And it's not just hurricanes and wildfires, also extreme heat, which certainly
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some parts of the United States are already experiencing.
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This is what we do, says Mayorkas, as he smiles. It's all very reassuring.
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Now, admittedly, the words tremendously prepared can be interpreted in a few different ways.
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And unfortunately, Mayorkas wasn't more specific. But ordinarily, when the official overseeing a disaster
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relief agency says that they are tremendously prepared, they're saying that at a minimum,
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they have all the resources they need to quickly and effectively respond to whatever natural
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disasters may occur. So it was more than a little confusing to hear the DHS secretary on Wednesday
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announcing that actually, FEMA is out of money. They don't even have the cash to make it through
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Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas sounding the alarm on FEMA funding right after the devastation of Hurricane
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Haleen. Listen. We are meeting the immediate needs with the money that we have. We are expecting
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another hurricane hitting. We do not have the funds. FEMA does not have the funds to make it through the
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season. This all comes as the Biden-Harris administration spent over a billion dollars from
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a FEMA program on services for migrants. Now, it's easy to become desensitized to all the lying that
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we've heard from this administration. It's easy to roll your eyes when you see even more evidence
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that these people, at a minimum, at a minimum, and at best, are grossly incompetent. But this is truly
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another level. Imagine this kind of thing happening in literally any business in the country. Imagine
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the cook at IHOP telling his boss that he's tremendously prepared for the breakfast rush,
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and then the customers show up, and it actually turns out there's no flour, there's no eggs,
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there's no bacon in the kitchen. They need an emergency shipment because they're all out of
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ingredients. How long do you think that cook would have a job exactly? Five seconds? Less?
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As you just heard at the tail end of that Fox News report, this is starting to look like something
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much worse than incompetence. It looks a bit like embezzlement, actually. First of all,
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didn't the government's fiscal year just start on October 1st? How are they out of money already?
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And why exactly was FEMA administering billion-dollar services, quote-unquote,
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to foreign nationals, including illegal aliens, living inside this country?
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the Department of Homeland Security allocated $640 million this year in FEMA-administered funds
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to aid state and local governments coping with the influx of asylum seekers.
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And DHS allocated $780 million for the migrant crisis last year through the FEMA Emergency
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Food and Shelter Program, which funds relief not associated with natural disasters,
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and the FEMA Shelter and Services Program, which was authorized in late 2022 by Congress to respond
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to the migrant crisis. Now, that money, according to the DHS website, goes to families and individuals
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encountered by the Department of Homeland Security. There doesn't need to be an emergency or a natural
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disaster or anything like that. These people just need to come into this country illegally,
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and they're eligible. And so they're getting paid while our own citizens are stranded in their homes
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and drowning. In response to this reporting, the DHS claimed that Congress didn't authorize
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that $1.4 billion to go to American citizens. It was supposedly earmarked for the migrant crisis,
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meaning it was never intended for Americans, which is supposed to be reassuring. It's supposed to be a
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defense when they say, oh, no, yeah, we were never going to spend that money on Americans.
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Yeah, we believe you. That's the problem, you scumbags.
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But in any event, that still doesn't explain why the DHS secretary said FEMA was well prepared
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just three months ago. And more importantly, it doesn't explain why we're spending so much money
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on providing food and shelter to illegal migrants when we don't even have enough money to fund
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disaster relief for American citizens. When we are in a country now where there could be American
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citizens in an American town in this country who are stranded in their homes for days on end. I mean,
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that should not happen at all in this country. It is a disgrace that that could happen at all.
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With all the resources that we have, that there could be people stranded for days on end.
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How are we not in a position where we can get them out within hours with all the money that's being
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spent? That's not even getting into the hundreds of billions of dollars we've spent to, you know,
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we've sent to Ukraine, which comes out to more than $5,000 per Ukrainian. And keep that in mind,
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$5,000 per Ukrainian, because by comparison, American citizens are not getting nearly as much.
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As the Post reports quote, a relatively paltry $4 million has been paid directly to families and
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individuals in the week since Hurricane Helene ravaged the Southeast, killing at least 202 people,
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causing severe flood damage from Florida and North Carolina. For her part, acting president Kamala
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Harris has announced that affected families in this country are eligible for a grand total
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And the federal relief and assistance that we have been providing has included FEMA providing
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$750 for folks who need immediate needs being met, such as food, baby formula and the like. And you can
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apply now for anyone who's watching this who has been affected. There are FEMA personnel who are going
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door to door to interact personally with folks, especially those who do not have electricity,
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but also that that aid, if you have electricity can be applied for online. And I encourage people to
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do that. FEMA will just basically verify your address and then process should take hold.
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Wow. $750. You know, your home is destroyed. You've lost literally everything. You've lost everything
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that you've ever owned is gone. And you're going to get $750. Which, by the way, is more than five times less
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So $750. That's what FEMA can give American citizens who just lost their homes. And to be clear,
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that's not because this hurricane season was unusually catastrophic. And it's not because FEMA has been doing
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heroic work that turned out to be far more expensive than they could have possibly anticipated. In
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reality, FEMA has reported that it's been running out of money for a long time now. A year ago,
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in the middle of hurricane season, FEMA disclosed that it was experiencing a massive budget shortfall
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of several billion dollars. This is a report from July of 2023. Watch.
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Hurricane season is underway, but word comes tonight that the FEMA funds many storm victims count on
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may soon run out. Westview News reporter Greg Fox explains what lawmakers and state emergency
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managers are doing to make sure that we are prepared.
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So far, the Federal Emergency Management Agency has spent more than $9 billion in the wake of
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Hurricane Ian. But FEMA relief has been spread across the country to areas hit by wildfires, floods,
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mudslides, and more. And the money is running out. According to the May Disaster Relief Fund monthly
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report, funds are projected to run out next month. The immediate disaster funding shortfall is projected
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to be $2.7 billion near the end of August and $10 billion near the end of September.
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Now, as you just heard from that report, FEMA's excuse last year was that there was a lot of unexpected
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disasters, fires, mudslides, and so on. So you'd think that after running out of money,
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they'd make sure to cover the budget shortfall in time for the next hurricane season. After all,
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the federal government can print money out of thin air for whatever reason it wants.
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They don't care about inflation, as we've learned. They'll just print it if they care enough.
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So why did that happen here? Was there some issue with the money printer? Did Congress reject the
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budget for some reason? If so, at the very least, you'd expect the DHS secretary would complain about
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that. You wouldn't think he'd go on television to brag about how tremendously prepared they are.
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That's especially true after FEMA's failed handling of the Maui fires last year. As you
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might remember, residents said that FEMA's assistance was both scattershot and insufficient
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after the blaze. They were also outraged that FEMA officials were hanging out in luxury hotels
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FEMA booked themselves in the five-star luxury Hawaiian resorts.
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These photos making national news headlines, calling attention to FEMA workers on Maui in what appears to
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show them relaxing in five-star hotels. At the cocktail bar and at a registration desk at the
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Grand Wailea, another photo shows FEMA workers on their laptops at the Fairmont Keolani. It's
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rubbing devastated Lahaina residents the wrong way, as they deal with the deaths of more than 100 people
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I mean, I feel sick. Dustin Kaleopu lost his home in the Lahaina fire.
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So they're seeing government employees or government volunteers staying in these luxury accommodations,
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being funded by taxpayers. That's where a lot of the frustration comes from.
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A FEMA official we spoke with does not deny they are staying at five-star hotels and that
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taxpayers money is paying for lodging for employees and survivors, but says it's not what it looks like.
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FEMA personnel and responders are not here on vacation.
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We're all here for the residents of Maui and the survivors of this terrible, this terrible incident.
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It's not what it looks like, says FEMA. And, you know, maybe that's true. Maybe it was vitally
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necessary for FEMA to rent out a bunch of luxury hotels in Hawaii somehow, for some reason. You know,
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we really don't know. But every indication we have now is that this agency isn't capable of managing its budget
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or responding effectively to disasters. Doesn't seem particularly interested in responding effectively.
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So there are a lot of reasons to ask questions about this whole arrangement, especially after everything
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we've seen. Will anyone in the media ask about any of this? Probably not.
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Deanne Criswell is the woman who runs FEMA. She happens to be the first woman to ever hold that job.
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So she has the whole identity politics angle, you know, going for her. Maybe that's why as FEMA
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suffers one humiliation after another, no one's even suggesting that she should lose her job along
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with the DHS secretary. Maybe Deanne Criswell is untouchable because the Biden-Harris administration
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wants her to do exactly what she's doing, which is to sabotage recovery efforts. Maybe that's what
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the government wants. They're certainly doing everything they can to create that impression.
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The local CBS affiliate in North Carolina just reported that 1,000 soldiers in the state
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are sitting around and doing nothing instead of assisting in disaster relief. There's a bit
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of a theme here emerging. Quote, President Joe Biden activated 1,000 U.S. Army soldiers for
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deployment to Western North Carolina. More than 24 hours later, troops are still waiting to be deployed
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from Fort Liberty. The soldiers are supposed to assist with delivering food and essential supplies
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to isolated communities devastated by Helene. The U.S. Army said soldiers with the 18th Airborne Corps
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at Fort Liberty are standing by and ready if the request for support comes. The North Carolina Army
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National Guard, which is leading the ground recovery efforts, tells CBS 17 they're still assessing the
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needs in the area and they have not made an official request for support from the U.S. Army.
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So the Army hasn't been called in for something. They're there, they're ready, but they're not
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being called. A thousand soldiers have been activated, but they're not doing anything because
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they haven't been given anything to do. Meanwhile, civilians who try to help are being prevented from
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doing so. Here's Congressman Corey Mills explaining that because Joe Biden was in the area, the federal
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government just prevented civilian rescue pilots and aid workers from saving lives in the aftermath of
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this disaster. Watch. The other thing is, is that yesterday for President Biden's, you know,
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dog and pony show to come in and see photos, he put a 30 mile TFR, which is basically a restriction
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in the air zone, which means that he actually stopped from 12 o'clock until 1604 p.m. He stopped
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air traffic and helos from transferring supplies, dropping SAR teams, picking up individuals from
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medevacs. So that was not only irresponsible, but if you're going to come a week later,
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at least make sure that you're not trying to, you know, hinder in any way further the actual
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operations that are being led by civilian organizations and veterans such as myself and
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others that are trying to do what is right. And so I found the entire response so far to be not
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just lacking, but irresponsible in the NAVs. So to recap, FEMA doesn't provide early warning or
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timely mandatory evacuation orders. They don't provide any significant assistance after the storm.
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They divert huge amounts of resources to foreign nationals who have no legal justification for being
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in this country. They shut down the airspace to block civilian rescue flights. They say they're
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out of money. And just three months ago, they told us they were tremendously prepared for hurricane
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season. You know, watching all this, you have to ask yourself why you're even paying taxes. Why are we
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paying FEMA billions of dollars every year only to make disasters even more deadly? Why are we funneling
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our money to people who clearly hate us and have no interest in helping, doing the job that they're
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paid to do? Ask yourself, if the Biden-Harris administration wanted to go out of its way to
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punish American citizens, wanted to actually cause suffering, what exactly would they be doing
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differently? You know, at some point, complete and total incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.
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And anyone who's been paying attention to FEMA over the past year, as well as everyone
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living in the areas that have been decimated by this hurricane,
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knows that we are now well past that point. Now let's get to our five headlines.
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00:20:05.260
I want to talk about this case, and first I'm going to read this, well, it's a heavily biased
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article from ABC News. Biased, but the essential information is in there, at least to set up the
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conversation that I want to have about this. So here's ABC News. Former Mesa County Colorado clerk
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Tina Peters was sentenced to nine years in prison for leading a security breach of the county's
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election system after being inspired by false and baseless claims of voting fraud. Peters,
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a Republican, was convicted for giving an individual affiliated with MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell,
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an ally of former President Donald Trump, access to the election software she used for her county.
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Screenshots of the software appeared on right-wing websites.
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She was found guilty on most of the charges related to election tampering and misconduct.
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Before being sentenced, Peters took the stand, asked for probation, and told the judge that she
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never did anything with malice and believed she was serving the people in Mesa County.
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I'm not a criminal, and I don't deserve to go into a prison where other people have committed
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heinous crimes, Peters said. And then she said that she's remorseful.
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But all to no avail, she was sentenced to nine years in prison. Let me play just a clip of this
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judge. Now, this judge excoriated Tina Peters at length before passing down this sentence. And
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we'll play just a little bit of the clip of this scene in the courtroom. Let's watch.
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You have no problem trying to kick an officer. Your explanation about what happened is preposterous.
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It's on video. You have no problem lying to officers. It's happened multiple times.
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They're recorded conversations. It's just more lies. No objective person believes them.
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No, at the end of the day, you cared about the jets, the podcasts, and the people finding
00:21:55.400
overview. You abdicated your position as a servant to the Constitution, and you chose you over all
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else. Yes, you are a charlatan, and you cannot help but lie as easy it is for you to breathe.
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You betrayed your oath for no one other than you. As to counts one and four, the judgment and
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sentence of the court is three and a half years in the Department of Corrections. Those sentences will
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be concurrent to each other. As to count two, the judgment and sentence of the court is three and a
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half years consecutive to counts one and four. As it relates to the misdemeanor charges, count eight
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is 120 days in the Mesa County Detention Facility, concurrent to count nine and ten, which will be six
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months in the Mesa County Detention Facility consecutive to the prison sentence. The reason
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those sentences are consecutive is because those sentences are, as the prosecution stated, directly
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related to what it is that you did here in our community, the damage you caused this community,
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the breach of your oath to the electorate in Mesa County. Your sentence will be followed by three
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years of parole. You have two days of pre-sentence confinement credit. Count six is criminal
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impersonation. That's also consecutive. That's 15 months to the Department of Corrections.
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So it's eight and a half years total, plus the six months for a total of nine years of incarceration.
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So nine years in prison, the judge, you know, rips her to shreds and then sends her to prison for nine
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years. This woman's almost 70 years old, by the way, a gold star mom, cancer survivor.
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She'll probably now die in prison. And I'm not interested in debating the merits of the case
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itself. Let's accept all the facts the prosecutor presented. She illegally accessed a voting machine,
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I guess. She, whatever, took pictures and sent them. And she did it because she believed that she
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was uncovering voter fraud. And I think that there's agreement on that point, by the way.
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She wasn't accused of hacking into the machines to rig the election, right? This is all after the fact.
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And it was done in her mind anyway, to uncover or reveal a rigged election. You know, she said in
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the sentencing that she thought she was serving the people of her county. And I think that that's
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pretty apparent that that's what she thought. Otherwise, why would you do it? What would be the
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motive? Now, if you commit a crime just because you thought you were doing the right thing, that's not
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an excuse. That's not going to get you off the hook oftentimes.
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But these are the kinds of things that are weighed in sentencing.
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But they didn't amount to anything. Here, nine years in prison.
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All of these consecutive, you notice he said all these convicted and all these charges consecutive.
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He could have done concurrent on all of it, but, you know, and even reduced it to three years,
00:25:25.580
which would also be crazy. But no, he wants, he threw the book at her. He wants her to spend as
00:25:32.020
much time in prison as possible. So nine years in prison for a 70-year-old woman who is not in any
00:25:39.680
way a danger to society. A woman with no previous criminal record. A woman who could be let back
00:25:46.220
into society and she could move in next door to you and you'd have no reason to worry, right?
00:25:56.060
That there's not anyone in the country who would feel unsafe having this woman in the neighborhood.
00:26:06.800
You know, you could pull out a gun and rob the gas station down the street and get less time than that.
00:26:19.160
You could certainly deal drugs and get much less time, commit assault, abuse a child.
00:26:27.260
I mean, criminals guilty of all of these crimes are routinely given less time.
00:26:34.660
And on top of it, treated with more respect by the judge.
00:26:37.640
It wouldn't be that hard to find child molesters who get more gentle treatment from the judge and
00:26:51.240
And these are all criminals who actually are dangerous to their communities.
00:26:55.920
These are the kinds of people you certainly would not want living next door to you.
00:27:00.380
These are the kinds of people who not only are their crimes much more egregious,
00:27:11.800
It's almost an act of attempted murder to not put them in prison.
00:27:16.200
You are directly endangering the lives of the community by not putting them in prison
00:27:25.900
These are actual violent predators who are not reformed, probably will never be reformed.
00:27:31.040
These are violent, dangerous sociopaths who routinely get fewer than nine years in prison.
00:27:40.820
Maybe even fewer than nine months in some cases.
00:27:43.100
You could go out and carjack somebody at a stoplight right now,
00:27:47.780
and you almost certainly would not get nine years in prison.
00:27:51.960
You could carjack someone and kill them in the process,
00:28:03.280
Because, either way, I'm not encouraging you to do any of those things, obviously.
00:28:11.680
But saying you in a general sense, it doesn't necessarily apply,
00:28:16.380
because for Peters, the most salient point is not the crime she committed,
00:28:31.820
Not because she, you know, sabotaged a voting machine or hacked into a voting machine
00:28:46.180
That's not why she's going to jail for nine years.
00:28:48.120
Because if this was a black woman and a Democrat who did this on, you know,
00:28:55.680
in order to prove that Trump's report, that the machines were rigged, you know,
00:29:01.640
against the Democrats, in that scenario, she's not going to jail for nine years.
00:29:10.180
So, even in the crimes I just listed, I mean, carjacking, murder, drug dealing,
00:29:17.180
if you're a white conservative and you did any of those things,
00:29:19.520
now, conservatives don't generally do those things,
00:29:21.100
but if you're a white conservative and you did any of those things I listed,
00:29:23.940
maybe you would get nine years in prison or more.
00:29:27.580
But if you're black or if you're more politically aligned with the judge,
00:29:45.040
but a justice system implies that there is a system that imposes justice.
00:29:58.940
We know that in other courts around the country,
00:30:02.600
they are, similar sentences have been passed down to pro-lifers.
00:30:08.860
Yet again, for the most part, white, and all of them are conservative.
00:30:14.960
So, if you're a white conservative and you find yourself in court charged with any crime,
00:30:22.680
look at what the law says, what's the maximum penalty?
00:30:31.940
This is from LOTT Wire, which is what lives with TikTok's website.
00:30:39.340
The West Point School Board in Virginia agreed to pay $575,000 in damages and legal fees
00:30:46.240
to Peter Vlaming, a teacher fired in 2018 for refusing to use a transgender student's preferred pronouns.
00:30:53.780
Vlaming, a French teacher, claimed that his termination violated his First Amendment rights,
00:30:59.880
After multiple court rulings, the Virginia Supreme Court reinstated his case in December,
00:31:04.360
ruling that the school board had indeed violated his rights.
00:31:08.120
Vlaming was represented by the Alliance Defending Freedom,
00:31:10.300
which argued that his dismissal was not for something he said,
00:31:12.640
but for something he couldn't say due to his beliefs.
00:31:16.740
ADF Senior Counsel Tyson Langhofer stated that Vlaming's refusal to speak what he believed to be untrue
00:31:25.160
Part of the settlement, the school board cleared Vlaming's firing record
00:31:28.040
and revised its policies to align with guidelines introduced by Governor Glenn Youngkin's administration.
00:31:34.520
Vlaming expressed that he was wrongfully fired for his religious beliefs
00:31:36.760
and criticized the school's insistence on a single perspective regarding gender identity.
00:31:39.780
So here's a, we just talked about a grave injustice, and here's an example of justice at least.
00:31:50.000
So there is still justice happening in some places in the country.
00:31:59.440
Now, I think, I think the guy deserved more than $575,000
00:32:03.980
for such an egregious violation of his basic human rights, his basic First Amendment rights.
00:32:15.240
Or really, there's no, I mean, you can't really put a price tag on your First Amendment rights.
00:32:20.080
$575,000 seems like, if you are going to put a price tag on it,
00:32:29.940
And the school board has to eat crow on this one, which is as it should be.
00:32:34.360
I will say that, as I've tried to argue before,
00:32:44.880
I understand why they're framed that way legally.
00:32:49.880
So, Alliance Defending Freedom, they know a lot more than I do
00:32:55.240
about how to approach things like this legally.
00:33:07.620
and framing it as a violation of their religious liberty,
00:33:29.380
the reason why he didn't want to use the preferred pronouns,
00:33:48.640
but it also doesn't align with basic biological reality.
00:33:55.600
And so, really, where's Christian beliefs come into this?
00:34:00.120
and therefore, I believe that if you're a man, you're a man,
00:34:04.180
No, you don't need to be a Christian to believe that.
00:34:12.720
That's really where the Christian values come in.
00:34:18.440
Again, I don't need, it's not a Christian value of mine that says that men are men.
00:34:34.440
and I certainly cannot cooperate with this delusional idea
00:34:39.640
that is also causing great harm to the person that I'm sort of lying on behalf of.
00:34:53.520
And I'd like to say that this is part of a trend.
00:34:57.620
When you look at this case and how it turned out,
00:35:06.340
the kind of delusional fever dream that society's been in for the past decade or so
00:35:22.580
I saw someone on Twitter yesterday, I don't remember who,
00:35:24.920
but remarking on this point that it seems like culturally,
00:35:32.020
it's sort of noticeable that during this presidential election,
00:35:41.620
I mean, when have we heard Kamala Harris say anything about trans rights?
00:35:58.400
You know, the closest they'll get is when they talk about things like
00:36:05.420
And really the book bans are just efforts to keep
00:36:21.600
they were going around screaming about the totally invented,
00:36:37.000
So it does seem like a great retreat is underway on the left.
00:36:54.480
to kind of plant our flag and declare total victory.
00:37:11.120
And they're not even trying to defend a lot of the ground
00:37:17.000
And elected Democrats in particular are embarrassed of it.
00:37:53.180
analyzing the body language and facial features
00:37:55.700
of both of the candidates in the debate on Tuesday.
00:38:41.260
any woman who is categorically opposed to beards
00:41:20.760
I think I'm one of the only ones who talked about this,
00:41:28.420
They say that Vance is the first candidate on presidential ticket to have a beard in like 80 years.
00:41:42.080
Look at what's happened to this country over the past 80 years.
00:41:45.520
We've been in decline since the beardless took over devastation and decline.
00:41:57.860
Is it a coincidence that we've just been trending like this ever since we kicked the beards to the curb?
00:42:07.740
the truth is that it's really been over a hundred years since we had a president with facial hair.
00:42:13.740
I think Truman had facial hair for a brief moment in time,
00:42:16.520
but the last president to really lean into the facial hair was Taft.
00:42:25.480
we have had no beards and no mustaches in the Oval Office,
00:42:33.540
it just so happens the 20th century was a century of chaos and bloodshed.
00:42:41.440
is because there were no bearded or mustachioed men
00:42:44.080
around to lead with masculine strength and calm.
00:42:49.300
Because one thing we know is that with bearded men,
00:43:17.320
I realize that's a little bit of an awkward one.
00:43:24.420
I just think there's something here we need to look at.