The Megyn Kelly Show - Ariana Grande Is Being FAILED by Those Around Her, Meghan Markle ESCALATES Feud with Martha Stewart, with Maureen Callahan ｜ Ep. 1379

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00:00:27 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:39 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Thursday.

00:00:43 So many stories in the news this week that are perfect for my guest today. 0.92

00:00:46 There's Meghan Markle, reportedly snubbed by yet another celebrity, and now apparently at war with Martha Stewart.

00:00:54 When will she get the message?

00:00:55 Plus, Oprah is shutting down her school in South Africa and appearing with Stedman for

00:01:00 the first time in almost seven years, as all close relationships, you know, do.

00:01:07 Eventually, you will be seen together after seven years.

00:01:11 It'll happen.

00:01:12 Here with me for the full show to comment on those stories and many others is Maureen

00:01:17 Callahan.

00:01:17 She is host of The Nerve with Maureen Callahan.

00:01:20 That's on the MK Media Podcast Network.

00:01:22 You can subscribe on YouTube and on all podcast platforms. Just go in there and type in The Nerve

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00:02:48 Maureen, so good to see you, my friend.

00:02:49 It's so good to see you, Megan.

00:02:51 I wish I was there with you in person.

00:02:53 I'm so sorry.

00:02:54 This like summer bronchitis has got me down.

00:02:58 Yeah, you've been battling it.

00:02:59 I've been listening to it on the nerve

00:03:01 as you've been going kind of steadily downhill

00:03:02 and your loyal listeners have been telling you to take some time.

00:03:07 So I wasn't even sure if you're going to make it today.

00:03:09 Thank you for doing the duty.

00:03:10 Oh my God, I'm so glad.

00:03:11 I was just saying to Allison, one of your book, your booker, I had this stress dream yesterday.

00:03:17 I took a nap and I thought I was going to go down for like 30 minutes. It was two hours. And I woke

00:03:21 up completely disoriented. I didn't know what day it was. I didn't know how I got on the couch.

00:03:26 And then I was like, did I sleep through Megan? Did I sleep through going on Megan? It was awful.

00:03:33 That is the worst. So we have to start with Oprah. I think she dragged Stedman out for you.

00:03:39 i think teddy van halen was on the case that's maureen's dog who she's been on she has sicked

00:03:46 him on the case of finding he runs homicide and i think this is a huge victory uh it's a huge

00:03:50 victory for him i i listen megan i would i'm gonna be a little bit more conservative in this

00:03:55 appearance uh it's steadman like it's a still photo we have no actual video or audio of him

00:04:05 speaking i you know i was discussing this with teddy yesterday and we both agree we need a proof

00:04:10 of life video with like you know a newspaper day and date um because this is this is too convenient

00:04:18 for me i i i just i love it though i love it this was right after we did our mini on why

00:04:26 wondering openly why oprah's closing her uh oprah winfrey leadership academy for girls in south

00:04:32 Africa. And, uh, one or two days later we were dragging them out. Yeah. I know. She's like,

00:04:39 don't pay any attention to my girl's school closing. Well, here's Stedman. This ought to

00:04:44 satisfy Maureen Callahan. There is a tiny bit of video of Stedman here in SOT6. Let's blink and

00:04:52 you'll miss it. So stay, stay wide-eyed here as we roll it. The meeting in Harpo Studios and the

00:04:57 studios right now. I can't even believe that as of next month, September 8th, it will be 40 years

00:05:07 since we first launched the Oprah Winfrey show. Thank you for being the greatest team ever.

00:05:27 See what the end will be.

00:05:30 Leave our work on.

00:05:31 Marks fried chicken.

00:05:35 I see laughing and crying and laughing and knowing what life is worth.

00:05:42 Did we hear him speak though?

00:05:45 No.

00:05:45 See, I'm highly suspicious of this.

00:05:48 Also, my favorite part of that, Megan, she's running the audio track.

00:05:53 Do you remember?

00:05:53 This was when Oprah, we all knew, truly lost her mind.

00:05:56 she came back one season and she was singing her own theme song to the oprah winfrey show

00:06:01 that's what that is no i didn't know that i didn't know that that happened that did sound

00:06:07 like her that that's oprah singing about herself and her greatness we're all gonna run on like yeah

00:06:13 wait a minute i like they're celebrating that the oprah winfrey show which has been off the air for

00:06:20 more than a decade was launched 40 years ago i mean like i don't understand the whole purpose

00:06:24 of this. Like Oprah had its day. A lot of us watched that when we were, you know, coming of

00:06:29 age in the 1990s. It's 2026, Maureen. Like, what are we doing here? I think, Megan, what we're

00:06:36 doing here is attempting to distract from closing the school. She's been making a lot of the rounds.

00:06:44 She's been doing a lot of press. She doesn't have anything in particular to promote. She really

00:06:50 doesn't the the canary in the coal mine for me was you know she sat for that vanity fair video 0.99

00:06:56 series where she's reviewing like iconic moments from her career and then expounding upon them

00:07:03 and she chose to revisit the harry and megan interview why would she choose to revisit that

00:07:10 which is one of like the biggest stains on her on her image brand legacy what have you

00:07:16 why res why exhume that i think it was to get people talking she did glamour magazine she in

00:07:24 the middle of it all she issued a very anodyne statement to people magazine about how she's 0.95

00:07:30 closing her school in order to reach more girls through scholarships ridiculous that the spin

00:07:37 that is in her statement is so absurd and all the media is running with it like yeah the whole point

00:07:42 is to help even more girls now. 0.99

00:07:44 And this was always going to be contemplated

00:07:46 that she was going to give the school back

00:07:49 to the local town. 1.00

00:07:51 But meanwhile, every girl there is getting kicked out. 1.00

00:07:53 Like they're actually,

00:07:54 it's not like somebody's taking over management of the school.

00:07:57 The school is closing,

00:07:58 which is obviously it didn't work out.

00:08:00 I mean, she had a good run.

00:08:01 I guess it was there for 20 years or so,

00:08:05 but let's not pretend that closure is not closure.

00:08:09 Well, the thing about this too

00:08:10 is that it's not just any school, right?

00:08:12 Oprah launched this school almost 20 years ago with Nelson Mandela by her side, right? No greater

00:08:21 moral beacon of South Africa. And she was using brand Mandela to elevate herself from a mere

00:08:27 talk show host into a philanthropist nonpareil. She said the school would be her greatest legacy.

00:08:34 These girls were the daughters she would never have. They were her greatest joy,

00:08:38 greatest purpose. I mean, I'm not being hyperbolic. These are all things she said.

00:08:42 And within nine months of that school opening or 10, nine girls came forward with claims of sexual assault or abuse against a dormitory matron.

00:08:52 And from there, the school has suffered major, major scandal, including a 17-year-old student who gave birth on that campus.

00:09:02 So she was walking around this boarding school for months, visibly pregnant, gave birth on that campus.

00:09:09 the baby was discovered dead in one of her bags and you know it's barely a blip in the american

00:09:16 media they went to oprah for comment oprah said or her people said she won't be commenting because

00:09:22 a minor is involved yeah a minor is involved it's a boarding school for girls you know i think she's

00:09:28 trying to get ahead of something this isn't just any school it's a school that was meant to be a

00:09:32 refuge and a safe haven for these young girls who are at extremely high risk for sex trafficking

00:09:39 On The Nerve, we aired a fairly recent news report from a South African-owned and operated

00:09:47 news station reporting that sex trafficking rings have only gotten stronger and more well-organized.

00:09:54 So girls are at higher risk than ever.

00:09:56 So my question to Oprah is, what are you doing?

00:09:58 Why are you closing your school?

00:10:01 Yeah, why is she?

00:10:03 We don't know the answer.

00:10:04 Other than maybe she's lost interest.

00:10:06 She wanted the good PR.

00:10:08 She wanted to look like this big philanthropist, and now she's living her best life out in Montecito, and she's skinny now, so she's feeling good about herself.

00:10:17 But I don't get this.

00:10:18 Like, David Letterman, he could be out there doing the, oh, it was 40 years ago we launched the show and be having a self-celebratory party that he's got to put all over the airwaves as, remember me during my heyday?

00:10:30 Remember me?

00:10:31 It's like she can't stand being out of the spotlight for two minutes. 0.99

00:10:34 We've got to go back to her glory days and try to celebrate her again.

00:10:38 her magazine where she's on the cover every month celebrating herself. It's just like her whole life 0.64

00:10:44 is so self-celebratory. It's kind of the opposite of how I think most people are raised, which is to

00:10:51 say I less, me less, but it's her bread and butter. My favorite announcement about Oprah

00:10:59 closing her school, which you can find online, is it's on Oprah daily, like an Oprah part of

00:11:06 the Oprah magazine. And it's got the Oprah logo. And then the headline is Oprah on closing her

00:11:13 school by Oprah Winfrey with a side photo of Oprah. So it's Oprah. We get it. We get it. Okay.

00:11:21 But number two, to your point, let's say she lost interest, which has been posited to me as an

00:11:26 active theory. That's fine. But I think when you take on a responsibility like that, and you use

00:11:34 an icon such as Nelson Mandela, and you've had problematic, very close friends in your life,

00:11:42 such as Harvey Weinstein and Sean Combs, I think what you maybe do is you assemble a highly trusted

00:11:49 consortium of people. Much like, you know, Valerie Jarrett is really running probably the

00:11:54 day-to-day at the Obama Library, right? Why can't she just install a trusted board to oversee it 0.67

00:12:01 and make sure again, if this is her legacy play, if she wants what the Oprah Winfrey Leadership 1.00

00:12:07 Academy for Girls has been doing to be the first line of her obituary, I would think she'd be way

00:12:14 more invested in this. And again, she is a stated self-professed survivor of childhood sexual

00:12:24 assault. I mean, I just would think that this would be so close to her that she would never

00:12:29 consider abandoning it. And yet, I don't know. I think she's lost interest. She's got to move

00:12:37 on to her new vanity projects, which will not include another sit down with Meghan Markle.

00:12:43 I heard you and Rob Shooter discussing on The Nerve how Meghan and Harry would reportedly love

00:12:49 to have another sit down with Oprah. She's not into it. She knows that she stepped in quicksand

00:12:55 on that first ridiculous sit down with those two it really was the low point of oprah's 0.96

00:13:02 more recent career at least and she doesn't want another round of humiliation with these two 0.98

00:13:08 grifters no you know there's this um there's a new verb in the lexicon called markled like you 0.65

00:13:16 got markled and it it it means if you get if you get in any kind of business with megan markle

00:13:25 if you have any proximity to her, her stink is going to be left all over you. And we can see 0.99

00:13:32 all the Hollywood power players like have slowly, slowly backed away. And you know,

00:13:39 Oprah's just as bad. Like, I really do think this like self, I agree with you, like,

00:13:44 why is she celebrating the absence of her talk show, which when she was retiring that thing,

00:13:51 do you remember this Megan it was a year of a goodbye yes it was never ending it was like just

00:13:59 please go it went on and on it was like Stephen Colbert just did the same thing she yes they

00:14:06 treat themselves like they're some sort of a queen or king stepping down from a rain it's like it's

00:14:12 television okay I hate to break it to you it's tv you appeared in the little box and you had little

00:14:18 conversations and they were entertaining while you did it. But none of us should take ourselves

00:14:21 so seriously as to think like we can't be easily replaced or forgotten. Certainly Colbert. And yes,

00:14:29 Oprah too. I mean, it's fine. People like you and I who were of the right age when she was at her

00:14:33 pinnacle will remember Oprah. My daughter has no idea who Oprah Winfrey is. She doesn't care

00:14:37 about Oprah Winfrey at all. She has no idea that she is. No, she's totally irrelevant to the next 1.00

00:14:43 Jen, which I think is why she's so insistent on celebrating herself, like, and not anything she's

00:14:49 done lately, but like, let's go back to my long since defunct talk show and celebrate when it

00:14:56 launched 40 years ago, 40 years, Maureen. I mean, even I was what I think a freshman in high school,

00:15:03 uh, maybe a sophomore, whatever. It's just, she, she is a narcissist. Oprah Winfrey is a raging 1.00

00:15:11 narcissist. We have proof of it every day. Okay. I want to get to Megan Markle because there was 1.00

00:15:16 an extraordinary thing that happened that relates. Hello to our parody of the absurd with love Megan

00:15:24 Netflix show. You and I got together and we did it much better if I do say so myself than the

00:15:29 original making fun of that absurd atrocity that Netflix foisted upon us. And what we discovered

00:15:36 you and I, while we were making one pot chicken from Meghan Markle's stupid Netflix show is that 0.99

00:15:42 she stole it from Martha Stewart. The recipe was identical with like maybe one sprig of something 0.99

00:15:49 that was different, but it was all but identical to Martha Stewart's one pot pasta. We made it.

00:15:56 Wasn't bad. It wasn't bad. And I think it wasn't bad because it came from Martha Stewart.

00:16:01 Exactly. Somebody who actually knows what she's doing in the kitchen. So Meghan Markle 1.00

00:16:05 And Martha Stewart met. They met recently. And in a people interview dated August 3rd, Martha Stewart said she overheard Meghan Markle at a dinner party recently talking about a private family reunion she had with King Charles with Harry when they went over there.

00:16:27 And Martha said she talked about it.

00:16:29 She like she just gotten back and she talked about it.

00:16:32 And that's the comment in which she said it's very hard to transition from a princess into a homemaking professional.

00:16:38 OK, like not everybody can do it. 1.00

00:16:41 And Martha doesn't she doesn't spew shit like she she gives it straight. 1.00

00:16:44 And so then the Duchess of Duplicity couldn't stand it. 1.00

00:16:49 She was so pissed that Martha had taken a shot at her and told everybody that Megan was mouthing off about her visit with the king.

00:16:56 that she had her people, somebody contact, well, it was in the Daily Mail and yes, and report that

00:17:09 Martha must have been confused because Megan was not seated anywhere near Martha. And then the

00:17:18 Daily Beast reported on this saying, Megan did something incredibly stupid here. She seems to 1.00

00:17:26 have gotten the host of the party to call up People magazine and say that Martha's account

00:17:32 was simply untrue and that Megan did not talk about her European vacation other than to say

00:17:37 the family had a great time. Worse, they called Martha confused, implying that Martha 85 is a

00:17:45 dotty old lady. And the position here is that this is incredibly stupid, writes Tom Sykes of 1.00

00:17:52 the Daily Beast, because Martha's not going to take well to that. And though she may be 85, 0.99

00:17:57 she's sharp as a tack. And this is not the way. But Megan can't have anything written about her

00:18:05 without filing a lawsuit, threatening a lawsuit, having her people call, issuing some nasty bar 0.98

00:18:11 back, even if it's an 85-year-old who said something very innocuous about her. She can't

00:18:16 stand it. She is her own worst enemy. I completely believe Martha Stewart's version of events,

00:18:24 because her version of events, Martha wasn't, she made pains to say, listen, I don't know Megan.

00:18:32 I didn't even really speak to her. We weren't seated near each other, but this is what I heard.

00:18:37 And this is in direct contravention of the King's edict about that meeting. And it also kind of is this nice distraction. This is a controversy I feel Meghan wants, because she wants us to forget things that are very recent and much more of an obscenity, such as taking a photo of Harry and the children on what looks like their

00:19:07 way to visit diana's grave disgusting 100 disgusting it did that's what it was i know

00:19:14 i know somebody who's got an inside connection there and that person confirmed for me that's

00:19:19 exactly where they were if they were like this is them on their way to diana's grave the one thing

00:19:24 that the owner of the estate diana's brother did not want them to do do not publicize anything 0.58

00:19:30 around the grave but she's a disaster tourist who couldn't help herself she's such a ghoul 0.70

00:19:35 Megan she's such a ghoul and she's a child it with Megan Markle don't say the thing you don't

00:19:43 want her to do don't give her ideas because she will do it she will and by the way we've all 0.89

00:19:50 dropped what was a major talking point mere months ago hey go talk to your father okay who's lost

00:19:57 half of his leg it was amputated and he was begging from his hospital bed I would just love

00:20:03 my daughter to call me. She's got ice in her veins. She's a reptile. Yeah. She's not going 0.97

00:20:08 to go see anybody's father unless he has a crown on his head. That's the father she's willing to

00:20:13 spend time with. Not somebody with half a leg. Ew. Meghan Markle's not going to be seen with

00:20:17 that. Gross. It doesn't elevate my status. Not like being with the king, which is something I 1.00

00:20:23 can package and photograph for Netflix. Meghan, she won't even bother to open a store-bought bag

00:20:31 of pretzels decant it into another plastic bag of pretzels and send it to her father as a get well

00:20:38 gift she cannot be bothered no she's and and what i love too is this report now that um

00:20:43 harry and megan are openly discussing issuing a formal apology to the king and um what they may

00:20:52 take uh responsibility for and what they may not and you know again why the mainstream media won't

00:20:59 just draw the direct correlation. Those two seem to be out of money. Harry's on the hook

00:21:06 for a $63 million lawsuit. He launched and lost. He launched it against all best advice,

00:21:13 and he lost. And I also think this is why we're seeing more sniping through the likes of People

00:21:19 Magazine and the Daily Beast rather than the threats of lawsuits. They simply can't afford

00:21:24 it anymore. So now they really want back in and they're willing to play nice just when they need

00:21:32 millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars to survive.

00:21:37 It's very sad to me, though, because I think the king is going to allow it.

00:21:41 I think he's going to let him back in because he's a dad. You know, he's a dad before he's a king.

00:21:46 and you know i've seen it time and time again where the parents are softer when it comes to

00:21:54 their children it's it's a sweet thing really if you think about it you know the parents they love

00:21:59 their kids they want to be connected to their kids they want to be connected to their grandkids

00:22:02 the siblings less so they see the abuse that one sibling has foisted on the whole family

00:22:08 And in particular, an aging, not well father, in this case, the king of England, and they're less forgiving. And I think that's why Prince William is a hard no on letting these two back in. But I think the king is going to allow it. And right now he's in charge. And it's just going to be incredible to see them try to go back over there and re-ingratiate themselves as royals in a country they called racist, right?

00:22:36 How are they going to spin this magical turnaround where the family is racist, they said, the country is racist, and they were so nasty that they actually were telegraphing they might not love their children if they were too dark.

00:22:51 And on top of that, when Meghan Markle was allegedly suicidal, they didn't want to get her any help.

00:22:56 Like, how do you walk back in and be like, just kidding.

00:22:59 We're fine.

00:22:59 We're good.

00:23:00 I love them.

00:23:02 It's really, it's like truly unbelievable.

00:23:05 It's truly incredible. Charles is, I think, you know, I think Diana had it right all those years ago in that panorama interview with Martin Bashir, which was problematic for many reasons. I mean, we now know she was duped into it, but she's, I think she told the truth when she said Charles was not up to the top job.

00:23:25 And at the time it was written off as a woman scorned trying to knife her ex-husband who left

00:23:35 her for another woman. But I think she knew him and I think she knew exactly right. He did not 1.00

00:23:41 have the strength or the spine. Harry and Meghan have done nothing short of attempt to bring down

00:23:48 the British monarchy. That's what they were trying to do. They were trying to destroy it.

00:23:52 Those two stew and marinate in rage and resentment. And I completely think William is in the right here. I think William also knows the resentment and the jealousy that Meghan harbors towards Catherine, Princess of Wales. Every time Catherine does something, wears something, issues a photograph, Meghan single white females her. It's beyond creepy.

00:24:18 Yes. So the latest incident with this pair is they went to this charity event. It was on August

00:24:28 7th to support their longtime friend, David Foster, and celebrate his foundation's 40th

00:24:34 anniversary. This is up in Canada. They help children who have life-saving, who need life-saving

00:24:40 organ transplants. So they showed up at the gala and there is video. This guy, Foster, is married

00:24:47 to Catherine McPhee, formerly of American Idol, right?

00:24:51 I'm pretty sure that that's his wife. 0.99

00:24:53 And the video shows that Meghan gets basically snubbed by David Foster on the red carpet.

00:25:02 Here it is.

00:25:03 Let's watch video one.

00:25:05 Okay, there she and Harry.

00:25:07 And he walks right by right past her.

00:25:10 She tries to reach her arm out and he does not want to do the hug.

00:25:15 He just keeps going.

00:25:16 Then they go back.

00:25:17 They have the photo. No, it's a no. There's not going to be any hugging. Now, the Daily Mail's

00:25:25 reporting. They reached out to him and know that it wasn't a snub. They didn't mean that somebody

00:25:33 on his team said, oh, they're very close and they would they would never snub anybody associated

00:25:38 with Meghan and Harry. But it certainly looks like a bit of a snub to me, Maureen. And I do think

00:25:42 Hollywood and the people who are in this stratosphere, whether it's a billionaire or

00:25:48 it's big celebs have gotten the memo. You don't, you don't want to be in a hug with this girl.

00:25:53 You don't want the one-on-one photograph. You don't want anything about this pair rubbing off

00:25:58 on you because their box office poison and their brand poison. What's doubly fascinating about this

00:26:05 is Harry, when he and Megan made their freedom flight on Tyler Perry's private jet, uh,

00:26:12 to Montecito, Harry said that David Foster was his American father, his American father figure.

00:26:21 So for David Foster to just blank Meghan like that, just ice her out is so brutal. And the

00:26:29 statement is like celebrity 101. Now, of course, everything that we have all seen with our own

00:26:35 eyes, and I've watched that thing in slow motion like a million times, it's hilarious.

00:26:39 um we he sees her he claims he didn't see her you can you can see his eyes look at her

00:26:45 because later he's like oh i didn't see her we see you david we see you icing her out we see you

00:26:52 talking to harry literally behind her back like he he reaches back rather than forward to avoid

00:26:58 any even eye contact with megan and then he said he said um or his people said absolutely not a

00:27:06 snob. He would never do that. He loves them. He loves them. But he also was a great admirer of

00:27:11 Princess Diana. Again, we loop back to just like a mere two weeks ago, Diana's grave,

00:27:18 attempting to commercialize that visit, attempting to attach herself to the remains of a woman who

00:27:24 is buried on a private island. Her burial site is a literal symbol of giving her the dignity

00:27:33 and solitude that she was not afforded in life. And that's what this ghoul does. I think for so 0.54

00:27:40 many people, that was it. It was worse than the reclining while crossing our ankles in the limo

00:27:47 while driving by Diana's death tunnel in Paris. Nothing was worse than Uvalde. Oh my God. I 0.95

00:27:52 forgot about that. You're right. No, that's, I mean, I, I, that for me was a before and after

00:28:00 moment on this woman. I could not believe she showed up to Uvalde and made sure she was 0.93

00:28:07 photographed laying flowers and on camera. Everybody knows there are a lot of celebrities 0.97

00:28:14 who helped. I'm pretty sure that's Matthew McConaughey's hometown. He and his wife, I think,

00:28:19 were very involved there. You don't see them on camera. No one felt the need to make it about

00:28:26 themselves except for her. I just want to be clear. Foster didn't say he didn't see her,

00:28:32 but that was the speculation when the video hit. Here's what he said. Sources close to Foster,

00:28:37 speaking with the Daily Mail, said Foster wanted Meghan and Harry there, that David genuinely just

00:28:44 didn't see Meghan. So it was like his sources close to him said he just genuinely didn't see

00:28:49 her. They had already said hi before the photo moment. There were lots of hugs and David introduced

00:28:54 the two of them to his other family there. He's always been a big fan of Diana. He would never

00:28:58 snub either of them. We report you decide, audience. He looks right at her as he is

00:29:08 walking by. He clearly could have leaned in for the hug on camera, which is not the same as the

00:29:14 hug behind the scenes. He didn't. It was a perfunctory. Okay, stand here on the red carpet

00:29:19 it and be photographed. They know he's not an idiot. They all know. All right. I want to keep 0.99

00:29:24 going. This is a quick one, but it flows. So I'm putting it here. Megan, of course, tried her hand

00:29:32 at podcasting and failed. She did that ridiculous archetypes podcast, all about female empowerment 1.00

00:29:39 as if she knows anything about it. Truly. She wants us to behave, to behave like she's Marie 1.00

00:29:45 curate. Like you've done nothing. You were deal or no deal. And then suits girl. It's fine. There's

00:29:50 nothing wrong with being an actress and a model, but stop pretending like you were Queen Elizabeth

00:29:55 because you weren't, you've done nothing. But anyway, she tried her hand at podcasting and

00:30:00 failed. And now, you know, who's trying his hand at podcasting is Barack Obama. I, this is why you

00:30:11 shouldn't become president too early. This is why it's better to do it the way Trump did it.

00:30:16 Live a big life. Accomplish a lot in the world and in business. Put your name on things in a way

00:30:23 that people remember. And then if you want to make the presidency your crowning professional

00:30:29 achievement when you really don't have anything to lose, I think that's great. That works well

00:30:34 because you're really kind of like your give a shit meter changes when you're at that point in 0.99

00:30:38 career. But Barack Obama didn't in his young forties. And now he's, he wants a job you and I 0.98

00:30:43 have more. It's fine. Our job is good. We like our job, but like, it kind of hope like you'd be doing

00:30:51 more if you were the president, he's launching a podcast. And to be specific, it's more like he

00:30:59 wants the job. My husband, Doug Brunt has, because it's going to be, it's called a great book with

00:31:05 Barack Obama. And he's going to talk about books on this thing. But weirdly, it seems like not just

00:31:12 like books that are coming out. The report via radar is that it will focus on influential books

00:31:17 that have impacted him. And it's old books like by Toni Morrison, James Baldwin, books that had

00:31:25 an impact on Barack becoming Barack. So they're going to discuss that. And the way the tagline,

00:31:32 I guess is I invited some friends to explore why these books resonate, how they can shape

00:31:37 our understanding of ourselves and each other and why literature matters. Okay. I hope you'll

00:31:43 check it out. I'm a, I'm a board already. If you want a good podcast on books, you should listen

00:31:50 to dedicated with Doug Brunt, which actually talks with authors about their process and their books.

00:31:54 And it's fun. You get a drink, but I, I, what do you make a Barack Obama now officially saying

00:32:00 what he really wants to do is podcast. Barack Obama, it's such a disappointment. There's so

00:32:10 much he could be doing with his post-presidential life and legacy, and all he wants is to just be a

00:32:16 celebrity. It was never more clear to me than, I think he was celebrating his 60th birthday on

00:32:24 Martha's Vineyard. It was the height of lockdown, but Barack was still going to have his big 60th

00:32:30 bash. The rest of us had to stay inside, but he was going to have a major party. And Martha's

00:32:36 Vineyard, where they are beloved, even the residents there were like, this is too far.

00:32:41 The catering staff was like, this isn't safe. So he agreed to then call his list, right? He was

00:32:49 going to call his guest list just to his nearest and dearest. You know who got the shaft? You know

00:32:54 who was told you were invited but no longer we cannot accommodate you david axelrod the guy who

00:33:01 got barack obama elected as the first black president of the united states who built brand

00:33:07 barack got tossed over so he could have the likes of like i don't know like you know the celebrities 0.87

00:33:14 there were like ridiculous celebs that's what he's obsessed with he's obsessed with he loves

00:33:19 the celebs he's have you seen i caught this just randomly you know larry david has done this new

00:33:24 comedy series for hbo about like the founding fathers or whatever there's this huge bit he

00:33:30 does with barack obama at i think like the the new obama library and and barack is very wooden

00:33:38 and he can't really act and he's just being barack and it's like his library yeah you know it's just

00:33:43 like what are we doing here your wife is busy also just wanting to be famous being a celebrity

00:33:49 being adored. She has a podcast. And aggrieved. And her podcast is unlistenable. And nobody's

00:33:56 going to go listen to Barack's sizzling podcast. There's only six episodes, too, which tells us a

00:34:02 lot. I don't think Audible really thinks- Just the books that matter to him. Not current books,

00:34:07 just books that have impacted me over my life. My God, again, how narcissistic. I know you all

00:34:12 love me so much. Let me show you how I got this way and the books that I read 30 years ago that

00:34:18 had like who honestly who would listen to that maureen i just like those two yeah her podcast

00:34:25 is not a hit it hasn't been a hit and by the way um what did we say aggrieved and what was the thing

00:34:32 you said about aggrieved and adored something like that that would be a great that'd be a better name

00:34:35 that'd be a better name for her podcast than whatever it is now um one other note on the

00:34:42 subject of doug brunt the audience knows that doug has a book out right now it's called the

00:34:47 lost empire of emmanuel nobel it's a thriller and it's about emmanuel nobel who is the most

00:34:54 successful but least famous member of the nobel family prize family and um he built the russian

00:35:01 oil fortune that's still funding vladimir putin's russia to this day and the reason you don't know

00:35:06 his name is because when he was coming up a little boy named joseph stalin was coming up at the same

00:35:11 time and the clash of those two titans is really what this book is about and and how a fortune was

00:35:16 stolen, basically. Um, that book just got reviewed by the wall street journal. And I want to show

00:35:25 you what they, what they found. They said the lost empire of Emmanuel Nobel. They said it is

00:35:31 enthralling accessible. And they called Doug a skillful storyteller. They recommended it to all

00:35:39 of their readers. Doug's been getting tons of great feedback on the book. It did of course hit

00:35:44 the bestseller list and is still doing really well. So for those of you who have not yet read

00:35:48 it, highly recommend. It's very fun. It's a thriller, but it's also historical. So you learn

00:35:54 something. And unlike Barack Obama and his book interest, it's authentic. It's well-researched

00:36:00 and it's interesting. So yay, Doug. Congrats to Doug. Oh my God. It's incredible. He came on the

00:36:07 nerve. We had such a great conversation with him for the book. Yeah. You know, it's hard to get

00:36:11 those long reviews where you get a major paper to sit down with your book and really do a deep dive

00:36:17 on it. They, they just, it's like, they don't do that many of those anymore. And so he was thrilled

00:36:22 it. He had nothing to do with it. The wall street journal and it muted. I obviously, um, not on the

00:36:27 best terms with Fox, uh, but they, they decided to do it and it was a great, it was a rave. So

00:36:33 thrilled, thrilled, thrilled. Thank you very much to them for such a lovely takeaway on, on the book.

00:36:38 Okay, I want to keep going. Ariana Grande, we've been talking about it here. You've been talking

00:36:43 about it on the nerve. She's dangerously thin. She is disturbingly thin. And the outrage is that 1.00

00:36:51 her team doesn't seem to care. They seem to want her to keep going. They seem much more focused on

00:36:59 making money off of her than actually checking her into a facility, which is very clearly,

00:37:03 in my opinion, where she belongs. Now she's becoming fodder for these late night so-called 0.86

00:37:10 comics like Bill Maher, who he's right on brand. He doesn't give a shit about any woman, 0.99

00:37:15 much less Ariana Grande. And here he is the other night on her. Sat 10. 0.99

00:37:20 The administration this week, just a few days ago, maybe yesterday, they unleashed a new trove

00:37:25 of UFO files. Interesting things in their triangular craft, weird lights over an army base,

00:37:31 a stick-like figure with large

00:37:34 eyes. That was just an Ariana Grande 0.98

00:37:36 video. 0.62

00:37:36 That was...

00:37:38 That was...

00:37:40 We can't...

00:37:43 We can't... 1.00

00:37:45 We want her to... Maybe that joke 1.00

00:37:47 will make her eat something. So it's... 1.00

00:37:49 I'm doing my... I'm saying

00:37:51 maybe it'll help. 1.00

00:37:54 Fuck him. 1.00

00:37:54 It's really not funny. Fuck him. 1.00

00:37:56 You know, I spoke about 1.00

00:37:58 on the Nerve the other day when we were covering

00:38:00 Ariana, my own experience with an eating disorder and how painful it is and how treatment resistant

00:38:09 it is. And I look at her and I think she should be in a hospital. She is probably at the point

00:38:15 where she can't physically eat at a certain point in your stomach. It certainly happened to me. It

00:38:21 shrinks to the point where you can't take food in, like your body doesn't want it. Somebody wrote in

00:38:28 with another. Look at that picture, Maureen. Look at that picture. I mean, she is skeletal.

00:38:36 And, you know, I put a lot of blame on the mainstream entertainment media as well,

00:38:41 which does the kind of whistles right past this stuff, or they turn the conversation

00:38:46 into some meta impersonal debate about, should we be talking about women's bodies?

00:38:52 Should we be body shape? That's not this conversation. It's not. And the question I

00:38:57 now really do have is, you know, there's a, there's a thing that happens and we saw it with

00:39:03 Michael Jackson, who was, I believe near bankruptcy when he died. Elvis Presley, same thing in a lot

00:39:09 of trouble when he died. The artist's value tends to go up when they die and the younger they die

00:39:18 and the more tragic the circumstances, the more the interest in the music and the catalog grows

00:39:23 and grows and grows. So I look at this poor young woman and I think she is surrounded by nobody

00:39:29 who truly has her wellbeing at the top of the list. She is a cash cow. She makes money for 1.00

00:39:39 people. That is it. She's been famous since the time she was very young. She came up in the child 1.00

00:39:44 star. I believe it was Nickelodeon. We all know. Yes, the sick, sick Nickelodeon. We all know how

00:39:51 dark that is. And I'm also sure that what she's being told by her team, who is allowed, I think,

00:39:58 listen, I just saw this report the other day and I thought this is the right thing.

00:40:03 Rod Stewart had to cancel his tour because he underwent emergency heart surgery. They canceled

00:40:08 the tour. You can cancel a tour. They're making Ariana Grande finish out this tour that she's on.

00:40:15 finish it out are you really going to tell me she's not being given drugs to finish this out 1.00

00:40:22 because this is the kind of skinny where you can't even climb a flight of stairs on your own 1.00

00:40:26 that's right that's absolutely right she's like beyond the point where she should be walking

00:40:32 around amongst us somebody i mean where are her parents what like what where are they to say

00:40:38 honey we love you you have enough money your team around you has made enough money

00:40:44 you need to take a step away it's or you're going to wind up like britney spears just today before 1.00

00:40:50 we came to air there was another britney video online of her inappropriately twerking she always 1.00

00:40:56 looks like you know she just like got out of bed with somebody like with the mascara running down

00:41:00 her face the weird twerking it it works i guess if you're 20 and you're young and fit and super

00:41:08 youthful it doesn't work for britney like the same little sad dance routine she keeps doing and 0.97

00:41:13 putting online, trying to sex pot her way back into our, you know, feeds. That's where Ariana's 1.00

00:41:20 heading. If she keeps going at this rate, if it's just a life full of self abuse and churning out 1.00

00:41:26 content for other people's pockets, she has more money than she could ever spend in 20 lifetimes.

00:41:33 This is like, where are the people who love her? You know, there's no spouse. I don't know about

00:41:38 the parents. Where's the manager? Where's the talent agent, the agent, right? Who should be

00:41:43 able to say, Ariana, you're going inpatient. Instead, they, we, they released the video of

00:41:48 this pedal, which we aired on our show last week and our audience responded. It couldn't believe

00:41:52 their eyes. Um, that appears to be like highlighting her bones protruding here in video

00:41:59 four. Like the collarbone is like, I'm trying to make mine do it. Like shoving my, look at this.

00:42:07 they want us to see look at this look at the chest cavity it's all bone that right there

00:42:16 is someone who needs help and that video to me she's she's telling us something whether she's

00:42:22 dialed into it or not you know that this is the cost of being her i i actually don't think that 0.76

00:42:29 ariana if she continues this way will wind up like britney i just don't think she will live 0.93

00:42:33 much longer. I think she's clearly on the Karen Carpenter trajectory where that eating disorder 1.00

00:42:40 does so much damage to your internal organs. Your heart can no longer take it. We talked about

00:42:45 Karen the other day, and right before her death, she was admitted to the ICU, I think at Lenox

00:42:53 Hospital in New York City, and they put her on an IV drip because she had done so much damage

00:42:59 to her digestive organs that she could not take physical food. I mean, I know Ariana Grande,

00:43:08 her mother's in the picture. Her brother Frankie Grande is in the picture. But I mean, these people

00:43:13 will all have blood on their hands if something happens to her, which again, as someone who

00:43:21 suffered from this, it's beyond clear. There's no debate. She's a very, very, very sick young

00:43:28 woman. She's very sick. She needs immediate help. This is our opinion. We need to make clear. It is 1.00

00:43:32 our opinion. We don't have any confirmation. She's got a, yeah, allegedly reportedly, but we don't

00:43:37 know that she's got anorexia, but I mean, our eyes would certainly suggest she does or some sort of 0.92

00:43:42 eating disorder. And you're right to raise Karen Carpenter because one of the most disturbing

00:43:47 things about Karen Carpenter's case for the listing audience, for the young audience who

00:43:52 doesn't remember her, you know, rainy days and Sundays always let me down. Something like that.

00:43:57 I can't remember the words, but something like that. And a voice as smooth as velvet. I mean,

00:44:01 just one of the most beautiful voices we've ever had in American songmaking. And she died at age

00:44:08 32 after she'd gotten help. She was on the way back to wellness. If memory, it's been a while,

00:44:16 but if memory serves, but it was too late, Maureen, she'd already done so much damage

00:44:22 by the deprivation in calories.

00:44:25 And she looked 70, even though she was 32,

00:44:30 you know, Karen Carpenter. 1.00

00:44:31 And that's what's going to happen to Ariana too. 1.00

00:44:35 There's only so much all the silicon and Botox 1.00

00:44:39 and plastic surgeons can do

00:44:40 with somebody who insists on making themselves

00:44:43 look like a corpse. 0.96

00:44:44 My mom is in the mental health field.

00:44:46 She spent her life at the Albany VA helping veterans,

00:44:48 but she also had a private practice when she was younger

00:44:51 uh with mental health and she said this is one of the hardest things to cure

00:44:55 in eating disorder like it is just so hard to break somebody of it and then you add all the 1.00

00:45:01 pressures that us that a huge celebrity like ariana would have if she has this and it would

00:45:07 be 10 times harder even more part of what also makes it so treatment resistant is you know a 1.00

00:45:15 suffer. And again, I'm not saying she is, but you can get to the point where either you're in real

00:45:21 denial. Like you think people around you are overreacting and you are just fine and you really

00:45:27 like the way you look or the extreme weight loss, it becomes like a high. It's like a dopamine hit.

00:45:34 Like how much control can I exert over my body, over this primal need? Like you have to eat to

00:45:42 survive. Right. But if you can control that and then couple that with the era of Ozempic that

00:45:48 we're in, you know, this kind of stick thin look, we see celebrities on the red carpet all the time. 0.89

00:45:55 We're being told by the media, they look great. They look like death. They look like death to me

00:46:01 more. Charlize Theron is way too thin. Margot Robbie. She's gotten so thin. Margot Robbie and

00:46:09 That other girl, who's the name?

00:46:11 What's the name? 0.95

00:46:11 Olivia Wilde.

00:46:12 Olivia Wilde.

00:46:12 Who also, I said, looked like a corpse. 1.00

00:46:14 Now she came out and she's attacking me.

00:46:16 I'm sorry.

00:46:17 Look, I'm sad that you've let this happen to you.

00:46:19 I used to be a big, you're a big fan when you were on House.

00:46:22 But she looks skeletal now.

00:46:23 She was, oh, it's the camera angle.

00:46:25 Okay, it wasn't the camera angle. 0.98

00:46:26 A camera angle doesn't make bones protrude when they're not actually protruding.

00:46:30 It doesn't make your eyes completely sunken in your head like we see in a skeleton when

00:46:35 they're not.

00:46:36 I mean, we all know the difference between thin, even very thin and skeletal, like it's

00:46:43 plain as the nose on your face and they can, they are the ones who don't see it.

00:46:47 They are the ones who don't see it and think they look good in this very corrupt industry

00:46:52 that will just continue exploiting them.

00:46:55 So I really hope she does get the help she needs.

00:46:59 Brad Pitt is also in the news and I, I'm worried about him too.

00:47:04 So Brad Pitt is drinking again. There was an in-depth profile on Brad Pitt by, who did it?

00:47:14 Who did the original? Esquire did the original. And the guy did a great job reporting on it,

00:47:19 but he exposed, he broke the news that Brad Pitt is drinking again after having been on the wagon

00:47:27 for many years, seven years. And now he offered this guy a glass of wine and the reporter was

00:47:34 like, is it just, just for the guests? And Brad's like, no, I'm drinking again and admitted and,

00:47:40 and is talking about how he, he can have the reporter said, Oh, just a glass. You can have

00:47:45 just a glass. And he's like, no, I can have, you know, more than just a glass, like a few glasses,

00:47:48 but I can't have too much. Like, okay. If you're an alcoholic, I'm pretty sure this is not how it

00:47:54 works, Maureen. And I think once again, there's probably not a lot of people in Brad Pitt's life

00:48:01 who can sit him down and say, Brad, no, for an alcoholic, what is it? One drink is too many

00:48:06 and 1,000 won't be enough. So I think this story is fascinating on multiple levels.

00:48:13 So Brad Pitt designed that tableau in order to get this story out, right? He was the one who

00:48:21 brought out the wine and served it to the journalist and that was the prompt. Like,

00:48:26 oh, is it okay for me to drink in front of you? Like, are you sure? Like you are on the record.

00:48:31 as being an alcoholic in recovery. And Brad says, oh, well, I'm drinking again.

00:48:34 It's a cover story in Esquire. He knows it's going to make headlines, right?

00:48:38 So why? Why is he telling us this? My question is, are we trying to get ahead of something?

00:48:45 Because back when Angie deplaned with those children, fled in a limousine,

00:48:52 2016, and the next day filed for a divorce, which was shocking and made worldwide headlines.

00:48:59 I'll never forget. I was working at the New York Post. I got an emergency call to come in early.

00:49:05 And then I looked on the Daily Mail website, and I remember the font size about the Brad and Angie

00:49:10 split. It was like the font size you would reserve for World War III breaking out. It was an enormous

00:49:17 story, right? And then Brad, a couple of months later, does a cover story for GQ in which he says,

00:49:25 hey, I'm an alcoholic and I'm an AA now. And I really had to get my stuff together. And I

00:49:31 remember saying to this guy who was one of the top reporters on page six, what is the play here?

00:49:37 Why is Brad Pitt doing this? He doesn't have to. There are plenty of people in recovery in

00:49:41 Hollywood that we don't know about. So why is he being so public about this? Brad Pitt,

00:49:47 Hollywood's wholesome golden boy. The way he spun that split from Jen Aniston, it was like,

00:49:53 He just wants babies. What else can he do? He has no choice. He has no choice. You know, so why is he doing this? And Ian said to me, I think he's trying to get ahead of something. And lo and behold, we later learned what went down on that plane. He was on a drunken rampage.

00:50:10 he poured beer over Angie and one of the kids hiding under a blanket by Angie's report to the

00:50:16 FBI. He assaulted her in a, in a bathroom on that plane. It was a bad, bad scene. And so when Brad

00:50:24 Pitt, who has been famous for like the bulk of his adult life, who knows how the machine works,

00:50:31 does this, like I raise an eyebrow. I like it. I think you're probably right now that I think it

00:50:37 through because it doesn't make sense. Everybody knows if you're an alcoholic and he's been in AA,

00:50:45 you can't drink. You can't drink one. You can't have two. You can't have three. Those days have

00:50:50 passed you because you have this thing that compels you to drink more than one, two, or three

00:50:55 if you pick up the bottle. I mean, maybe there's the rare case. I'm sure there are who are able to

00:51:00 do it, but it's the exception, not the rule. So why would he be publicizing it? That's a very good

00:51:04 question. Well, we will see if there's another shoe to drop on that one. Put a pin in that.

00:51:10 When we come back, an update. Maureen mentioned Michael Jackson. An update on a lawsuit against

00:51:16 the Michael Jackson estate, a setback for the plaintiffs, and Chris Watts, a family annihilator,

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00:52:40 Updates for you now on a few legal matters that we've been covering, including

00:52:44 including the Nick Reiner case, the Chris Watts case, and a massive case brought by alleged

00:52:53 child molestation victims against the Michael Jackson estate. Maureen Callahan is my guest

00:52:59 today. She is host of The Nerve with Maureen Callahan, which you can find on all podcast

00:53:03 platforms and YouTube. Go and subscribe now so you don't miss a moment of Maureen. You're a loss if

00:53:08 you do. Trust me, if you haven't sampled The Nerve or The Nerve at night, you're missing out.

00:53:14 Okay. Um, this Chris Watts case, like I'm, I've just been thinking weirdly about family

00:53:20 annihilators because we've been doing this MK confidential series at night. And we have been

00:53:26 this week, tonight's the fifth of the five episodes doing John list, who was a family

00:53:31 annihilator who killed his whole family in 1971. If I do say so myself, it's a riveting series.

00:53:37 Please go and check it out. It's on the Megan Kelly podcast feed. You don't have to look hard

00:53:41 for it. But anyway, Chris Watts was kind of on my mind because he is one of the most notorious,

00:53:49 infamous, awful family annihilators in American history. And he's still a relatively young man

00:53:55 serving time for his crime. I'll get to the update in one second, but just to set the stage

00:54:00 for people who don't remember this case, it happened in Denver, Colorado, and on August 13th

00:54:09 of 2018, Watts would strangle his wife, Shanon, to death and kill their two daughters, Bella

00:54:16 Four and Celeste Three, and then dispose of the children's bodies in the most detestable, 0.54

00:54:23 horrific way possible.

00:54:25 I'm just going to start by showing you a little bit from the Netflix documentary on Watts,

00:54:30 where you will see Shanon and the girls and Chris in their so-called happy phase, which

00:54:35 was not long before he murdered them all, Sat 39.

00:54:39 Hey guys, my name is Shanann. I just want you to know a little bit of my story. I went

00:54:46 through one of the darkest times of my life, and then I met Chris. And he's the best thing

00:54:53 that has ever happened to me. I've done everything in my heart to make my family's life better.

00:55:01 Don't eat turtle. Don't eat turtle. I think about like, did I cause this?

00:55:07 did I cause this? That was his confession to his dad when in custody, which of course, I mean,

00:55:13 it's so passive voice and it's such a pathetic confession. Cause it, you did it. You did it 0.98

00:55:17 affirmatively. Um, one more when, after he killed Shanann and the girls, he pretended like they,

00:55:25 they disappeared. Like she just took the girls and he didn't know where she took the girls.

00:55:30 Meanwhile, like her purse was still there. Her medication was still there. It was like,

00:55:34 oh, she just, she just walked off without any like kid supplies. Um, and I believe her car

00:55:41 was still there. Like she's literally, she just walked away without her purse. Okay, sure. But

00:55:46 anyway, he gave an interview to a Denver, um, news outlet at the time and pretended like he had no

00:55:55 idea what happened to her. I'll show you part of the interview. This is him knowing that he

00:55:59 strangled her um shortly before and that he killed his daughters as well in sat 37 i'll let i left

00:56:06 work for work early that morning like 5 15 5 30 so like she barely let me she barely got barely

00:56:13 gotten into bed pretty much now this might be a tough question but did you guys get into an

00:56:20 argument before it wasn't it wasn't like an argument we had emotional conversation but i'll

00:56:24 leave it at that but it's I just want them back I just I just want them to come back and if if

00:56:34 they're not safe right now that's what's that's what's tearing me apart because if they are safe

00:56:38 they're coming back but if they're not this this this has got to stop like somebody has to come

00:56:43 forward Shanann, Bella, Celeste if you're out there just just come back like if somebody has

00:56:51 sir. Just please bring her back. I need to see everybody. I need to see everybody again. This

00:56:56 house is not complete with without anybody here. It's chilling to look at that, knowing what we

00:57:08 know. He knew very well that Shanann would not be coming back because he looked her in the face and

00:57:12 strangled her to death night before the nights before that interview, not to mention what he

00:57:18 did to his young daughters. This is, this is so graphic of a viewer warning. This is him in a

00:57:24 Denver interview from prison, March of 2019. And again, he's here, he's going to detail how he

00:57:31 killed his two young children. Very disturbing, but it's relevant to what we're about to discuss.

00:57:37 SOT 38.

00:57:39 Cease is first, okay.

00:57:43 Cease is first.

00:57:43 Where exactly was she going to have? 0.95

00:57:44 In the back seat. 1.00

00:57:46 Okay, was she just right next to Bella?

00:57:47 Mm-hmm.

00:57:48 Okay.

00:57:48 So once again, was it a hand over her face?

00:57:55 It was a blanket over my hand.

00:57:58 And it went down to Bella. Tell me what happened there.

00:58:03 She said what happened to Cece.

00:58:07 Or she asked if it was the same thing, the exact same thing that happened to me as Cece.

00:58:13 Did she ask you that?

00:58:16 So Bella's pretty smart. 1.00

00:58:20 How does she sound when she has to wear a dress? 1.00

00:58:23 She has that soft voice she always has.

00:58:28 And what exactly did she say?

00:58:31 She has exactly the same thing that happened to me at CC.

00:58:35 I don't even remember what I said.

00:58:39 I don't know if I just said yes like a horrible person,

00:58:42 Or if I just put that blanket over her, too, and did the same thing?

00:58:49 It's so awful.

00:58:51 This four-year-old girl, Bella, knew what was going to happen to her

00:58:53 because she watched him do it to her little sister, Celeste, who was three.

00:58:57 And then he put their bodies in an oil tank at a field where he was employed

00:59:05 and left them there.

00:59:08 He left Shanon not far from there, not in an oil tanker,

00:59:12 but not far from there. This man would ultimately confess his father extracted a bit of that

00:59:20 confession from him, which we showed in part. He was sentenced to life in prison and he is in prison

00:59:26 right now. He is in Wisconsin. He was relocated from Ohio to Wisconsin and Maureen,

00:59:36 he's going to get married again. There is a young woman whom the Daily Mail found and an

00:59:46 exclusive got an interview with her. Her name is Lizzie Henderson. She is a realtor. She's at

00:59:53 least a licensed realtor and was, we believe it, for a time working as a realtor. She's got a

00:59:59 license to do it in Wisconsin, but they report is currently working at a local supermarket.

01:00:06 She has somehow fallen within this guy's crosshairs, and he's 41, she's 39.

01:00:15 She moved to be near him, and I'm sorry, she's the one who relocated from Ohio to Wisconsin

01:00:22 to be closer to his cell, and she has applied to marry him within the prison system.

01:00:28 Um, she has reportedly also, uh, submitted for a name change on September 12th, 2025.

01:00:37 She is wearing his name already.

01:00:39 She's going by Lizzie Watts.

01:00:41 They've been seen making out at the prison, um, saying that they love each other to one

01:00:47 another and, um, have, have become quote, increasingly physical, right?

01:00:53 It's the Daily Mail.

01:00:53 You can't have a conjugal visit in his prison, but they're doing what they can, shall we

01:00:59 say.

01:01:00 When the Daily Mail spoke to her, they said she spoke in a scattered manner, that her

01:01:03 responses were often disjointed.

01:01:06 And when they asked her about what she's doing, she said she knew it could be perceived as

01:01:11 weird.

01:01:12 She would not get specific about how they met.

01:01:15 They asked, what do you think about his crime?

01:01:17 She said, how I feel about it.

01:01:19 He knows.

01:01:19 He knows how I feel.

01:01:20 and then she described the killings as quote something harsh for anyone to experience

01:01:25 the Daily Mail concluded she was seeming to downplay his the extraordinary brutality 0.99

01:01:31 of these crimes she visited him 20 times last year I I'm so fascinated by women who do this

01:01:38 Maureen like I and not just any criminal it's fascinating enough you're going to get married

01:01:43 or date a criminal, a prisoner, but a family annihilator, someone who would do that, what

01:01:50 we heard in that soundbite to a four and a three-year-old. And you're out there selling

01:01:56 groceries and selling real estate and like functioning in this world as a semi-normal

01:02:00 human being and interacting with people that the levels of unwellness here are like off the charts.

01:02:08 there's so much to discuss here first of all i saw you were doing john list on your on your new

01:02:15 show and john list i was i knew about that case from a very young too early because um that

01:02:23 happened in westfield new jersey and my dad was raised in westfield new jersey and that crime

01:02:30 shocked westfield new jersey really lovely bedroom community um it was it was i think it was one of

01:02:38 the first cases where the american public had learned of like a family annihilator now we know

01:02:45 about them you know number two i i didn't know any of those details because with these cases 0.50

01:02:51 the clancy one that's going on right now that kind of grievous harm murder leveled against

01:02:59 children by their parents like i it's it's too much to take like like listening to that was awful 0.81

01:03:05 thirdly how i'll bet you i know how they met i'll bet you she doesn't want to admit it because she

01:03:12 wrote love letters to him he's the woman for him she's gonna fix this bad boy number four how is it

01:03:22 that family annihilators aren't ripped to shreds in prison? How is this guy still walking around

01:03:30 a prison? I'm surprised. Very good question. I'm surprised. Number five, how is it that family

01:03:38 annihilators are allowed to date, get engaged, and get married? How? Can't we just come up with

01:03:46 a law in the books that you have to suffer if they're not going to put you down like the 1.00

01:03:50 rabid animal you are you are not a human you are a rabid fucking animal if we're not going to put 1.00

01:03:56 you down and there are just people who need killing on this earth brian koburger is one 1.00

01:04:02 you know the menendez brothers were hot pieces they were hot tickets you know they're both

01:04:07 married yeah minute one of the menendez we just look that up uh the one brother eric the younger

01:04:13 one has been married for 27 years lyle was married i think for 23 and just got a divorce but he for

01:04:19 20 for the marriage held for more than two decades in prison keep going you want to know why lyle got

01:04:23 a divorce he had another woman on the side he's with her now what yes yes you know what i mean

01:04:33 it's like i i don't know if the thinking is like just keep them as happy as you can like i don't

01:04:40 get it like i don't get why a chris watts isn't in a federal supermax why he's not in solitary for

01:04:47 23 hours a day, let alone able to get married. And I guarantee you this crazy woman, this really 0.66

01:04:54 fucked up individual has lost her job selling real estate. And that's why she's bagging groceries 1.00

01:04:59 now at the local stop and shop. This can't be a well person. There's just no way with all the

01:05:05 respect to her. I'm sure she's going through something because why else would you ever do

01:05:08 something like this? Here's my team tells me that there's, there's been a lot of notorious

01:05:13 like serial killers who have gotten married um of course charles manson presided over a

01:05:18 a group of shaved head groupies and he got four fan letters a day he sought a marriage license

01:05:24 in 2014 to wed afton elaine burton a 26 year old admirer who'd been visiting him for years

01:05:30 ted bundy you're the one who turned me on to that amazing book oh right won't yeah that was crazy

01:05:39 wound it wasn't even that book it was so good stranger beside me

01:05:42 yes yes she was his friend and she was his friend they were working when he was really young we're

01:05:48 working a suicide hotline together talking people out of killing themselves i was reading that this

01:05:55 time last year i was listening to the audio and i was taking these long walks and um no one knows

01:06:00 you're listening to a story about ted bundy i bumped into somebody the grocery store it was a

01:06:04 kid it was like hi mrs kelly i remember you telling me that i remember you telling me that

01:06:09 it's crazy and the and the that was a great book such a great book and i'm so i knew you would love

01:06:14 it because one of the most amazing details of that book to me you know she was a ann rule was

01:06:18 a single mother she had young children she was volunteering at the suicide hotline and every

01:06:24 night she worked with ted he would walk her out to her car because he was like i want to make sure

01:06:30 you're safe she was one person who he seemed to actually enjoy and experience as a friend

01:06:39 It's so bizarre.

01:06:40 One of our most notorious serial killers,

01:06:42 but she did have some weird friendship with Ted Bundy.

01:06:47 So he wound up married.

01:06:49 He became a father after committing at least 30 murders

01:06:53 despite being locked up for three decades.

01:06:55 Richard Ramirez, the Night Stalker,

01:06:57 he tied the knot with a reporter

01:06:58 who saw his mugshot on TV.

01:07:00 So I looked this up.

01:07:02 This is sent to me by Debbie Murphy.

01:07:04 Dr. Fred Berlin,

01:07:05 director of the Johns Hopkins Sex and Gender Clinic.

01:07:08 why do women fall for imprisoned men? There tends to be this trait of intense mothering 1.00

01:07:14 in prison wives. I think these women tend to be very nurturing. They have a sense of wanting to 0.91

01:07:19 be caring for someone else and men in prison for obvious reasons are quite needy. Now I pulled up

01:07:24 some interesting facts on this, okay, which I want to run by you. I actually think this is just

01:07:30 fascinating. Okay. One, one possible reason they get married to prisoners. Um, the, that in a prison

01:07:38 marriage, the partner on the outside holds most of the power. They decide when to visit, whether

01:07:44 to accept phone calls, how much money to send, which can appeal to individuals who have felt

01:07:48 powerless in past trauma or in relationships. Okay. I like this as a theory, like you dated

01:07:56 an abusive asshole. And so you marry some other abusive asshole, but now it's on your terms. 1.00

01:08:03 They can't hurt you and you're in control and you're in the power position, whether this is, 0.99

01:08:08 you know, this I think would not be an on the nose thing. This would be a subconscious

01:08:12 motivator for you. Then there's the savior or project complex. Some women are drawn to the

01:08:18 idea of reforming or fixing an inmate, seeking emotional fulfillment from engineering a redemption 1.00

01:08:23 arc. I like it. Yes. Then there's something, get this, called hybristophilia, a specific

01:08:32 psychological condition or paraphilia where a person feels sexual or romantic arousal and

01:08:38 attraction specifically because their partner has committed a notorious crime, violent act,

01:08:45 or murder it turns you on to know that they've murdered someone that's got to be related to like

01:08:56 i'm the one who's going to tame the lion you know like he's dangerous but not with me yeah i don't

01:09:03 i like right there's got to be that dynamic at play at some level i'm special right i'm the one

01:09:10 it's like every woman who's ever gone after a bad boy like this notion that like you're the one to

01:09:14 fix them. You are somehow differentiated in that way. It's never true. And I also think there's

01:09:20 something to it about, I mean, I like all of those theories. I think they're great. I also

01:09:25 think there's something to it where it's like, it's a way of having a marriage without having

01:09:31 a real marriage. You're not in it in the day to day. Like you're not grinding it out, paying the

01:09:36 bills, raising the kid, like, whatever. Like, it's that person can remain a fixed idea

01:09:43 somewhere in another location that is difficult to reach. You may or may not, like, why would

01:09:50 you marry Megan, as this woman is going to do, a man with whom you cannot have conjugal visits?

01:09:58 Like, what, like, there's something going, was she abused as a young person? You know,

01:10:03 is this is this a weird weird morbid kind of safety to her i i i don't understand i mean i'm

01:10:11 sure this isn't completely understudied phenomenon i personally would love to see female academics 1.00

01:10:16 and research in this phenomenon i think you need women in this field for sure you know it's 1.00

01:10:22 interesting to me that they they're saying possibly you had trauma in a prior relationship 0.97

01:10:26 that would make you choose somebody like this, not just a prisoner, but like a murderous

01:10:33 prisoner, somebody who murdered his wife and family and two beautiful, innocent daughters

01:10:38 in the single digits, um, that maybe you had trauma in your past relationship.

01:10:43 And so you're looking for a redemption arc, or you're looking for, to be in a more powerful

01:10:47 position vis-a-vis the man in your life, because Shanann Watts, his wife, she, in that Netflix

01:10:56 documentary talks about how she was in a very bad relationship prior to chris watts she she

01:11:05 something very bad happened to her in her first relationship and she found chris watts and chris

01:11:10 watts was heavy he was like obese when they got together he wasn't like i he's a it's hard to say

01:11:20 this about such a monster, but objectively he was, he turned into a decent looking guy

01:11:26 at the time of the murder. Now he looks like a prisoner who's let himself go and disgusting. 0.98

01:11:30 But my point is simply, did she intentionally, did she repeat a pattern, you know, consciously

01:11:37 or subconsciously? I think a lot of women worry about this with themselves, not on the level of

01:11:42 like, I'm going to get murdered, but they repeat patterns, whether it's consciously or subconsciously.

01:11:50 And so it's almost like if you've been with somebody who's abused you or really hurt you

01:11:55 like intentionally, who's a bad person, you have to actively do something in your life

01:12:00 to make sure you don't invite that back to you, whether it's on the nose or not.

01:12:05 Like there might be something in you that is attracting something very dark and dangerous.

01:12:11 Like that's why I always say when you have a relationship blow up, the number one goal

01:12:16 is to work on yourself, to work on yourself. Even if you think it was all his fault and he was the

01:12:22 douchebag and all that, still the goal remains the same. Work on yourself, improve yourself,

01:12:27 make yourself better in every way that you can so that you will attract something better.

01:12:34 You know, I know exactly what you're talking about. The thing though, with the Chris Watts thing,

01:12:39 you know he is a psychopath okay he is a stone cold psychopath the way in which he relates what 0.96

01:12:48 he did to those girls he is and the passive language the refusal to take you know narcissist 1.00

01:12:54 malignant narcissism psychopathy all of it but um guys like that look for women like shenan

01:13:01 you know and i think in the uh in the world of those real those of us megan who are like

01:13:08 emotionally regulated and like fairly you know i hate to use the word like normal but like you

01:13:15 have a relationship blow up and yes you go okay like what in me was attracted to that guy what in

01:13:20 me allowed myself to overlook the following red flags that wound up hurting me right that's the

01:13:26 goal. But this is another level where, you know, you can sense when a guy is a bad guy. You can

01:13:38 sense it. I don't know if you've ever met like a male psychopath in your life. I have. And to me, 0.63

01:13:44 I can see all the signs. I can see them. And I see other women going, oh, he's really something,

01:13:51 right really good looking like it's i i i don't i think that these guys prey on broken women like

01:14:02 profoundly broken women because you know again as another um fan and student of the gavin de becker

01:14:09 book the gift of fear so good chris chris watts that doesn't just explode out of nowhere i i and

01:14:17 i am in no way blaming shenan in no way no of course but there were definitely warning signs

01:14:24 there was definitely violence in that house there were definitely moments where i am sure she thought

01:14:30 should i pick up the girls and leave and i am sure as a psychopath he was charming and manipulative

01:14:36 and knew how to breadcrumb and withhold and give and withhold until you know it it ended in the way

01:14:44 it was probably just going to um i mean i did think it was very interesting um the day she

01:14:51 went missing so she got home from a work trip with her girlfriends um you know with whom she worked

01:14:56 and she got into the house and overnight like at the one o'clock hour i think and they were trying

01:15:02 to call her the next morning and she wasn't picking up of course she'd been killed and uh

01:15:06 they knew those women god bless them they were over there in two minutes they were like where's 1.00

01:15:13 Shanann. And they were the ones dealing with 911. Like she should be here. This is her medication. 0.97

01:15:18 Why is her medication still here? And he was like sheepishly standing there guilty. I mean,

01:15:24 you saw that news interview. He looked, he looked like he knew he'd been caught. He wasn't caught

01:15:30 yet, but he would be all right. I want to keep going because there's another legal update in

01:15:34 another case that we've talked about before. And that is the Michael Jackson case. Now this family,

01:15:41 the casios they've been defending michael jackson from the start they michael jackson went and

01:15:52 stayed with them for three months after 9-11 it's the craziest story the the dad worked i think at

01:16:02 the p at the palace oh yeah as like chief bellman or you know some sort of middle level management

01:16:09 but was dealing with hotel guests. Michael Jackson lived in a modest home in New Jersey,

01:16:16 but he had a bunch of kids. Four or five. It remains unclear to me which one. I think he had

01:16:21 just the four. Whatever. I can't remember, but it's irrelevant. So Michael Jackson starts coming

01:16:28 back to his house. I mean, this is not a good, no normal parent would be like, sure, and come sleep

01:16:33 over in my kids' rooms. It's just not a good idea, obviously, but it's what happened.

01:16:39 He came with his little chimpanzee and stink.

01:16:44 Oh, bubbles. 0.93

01:16:44 I just think about it, Maureen. 0.87

01:16:47 Like you're, if you're the wife

01:16:48 and your husband works at the palace

01:16:50 and he comes to, he's like, I met Michael Jackson.

01:16:51 Oh, cool.

01:16:52 The next thing you know,

01:16:52 Michael Jackson has moved in with his chimpanzee.

01:16:55 He's literally the biggest star on the planet

01:16:57 and he's on your little foldout couch.

01:17:01 So that happened.

01:17:02 That's a real thing.

01:17:03 They got very close, the Cascios and Michael.

01:17:06 And he brought all the children on tour with him.

01:17:09 he made them feel like special favorites which they clearly were in all the years they've

01:17:14 defended michael jackson never laid a hand on us three boys and a girl never once these are lies

01:17:20 stop it about michael jackson then we find out that allegedly when they saw the leaving never

01:17:29 leaving neverland documentary which was not a documentary i've got a lot of issues with how

01:17:34 that was done i know a lot about in particular that wade robson that i've told the audience about

01:17:38 in part serious credibility problems by at least the one accuser none of which were raised doesn't

01:17:44 mean he's lying about michael jackson but as an as a filmmaker doing what you call a documentary

01:17:49 you have an obligation to tell the audience anyway they said that that triggered something for them

01:17:54 that it quote deprogrammed them and that now they've realized they were abuse victims and did

01:18:01 they go out to the cameras to just say this happened to us and we want to set the record no

01:18:05 they, they put their hands out. They went to the Michael Jackson estate and they got a payout

01:18:11 multimillion dollar payout reportedly. And then in 2026 after, or just as the MJ mega movie

01:18:22 was coming out, they went back to the till reportedly wanting more. And now, and they

01:18:31 wanted the lawsuit to be heard in court because that's where you can get big bucks. Everyone's

01:18:36 thinking if I can just get in front of a jury, I'm going to win because I'm just going to tell

01:18:42 a sob story about something terrible that happened to me. Here's a little flavor of the Casios

01:18:47 and them alleging the abuse by Michael Jackson in a piece they did in May of 2026. This is just a

01:18:54 months ago for 60 Minutes Australia. For Aldo, the family's youngest, at times the fear was

01:19:02 overwhelming. Did you find his appearance scary as a kid? Yeah. Yeah, especially when you're in

01:19:13 bed with him at night and he turns into the zombie and you don't love me. You don't love

01:19:21 You know, his eyes were like this.

01:19:23 Learning there were other victims meant this was no longer just his secret to keep.

01:19:30 And I was like, oh my God, he did this to other kids.

01:19:34 That was enough for my courage to just blossom.

01:19:38 I was like, no, no, no, no.

01:19:39 This isn't made up.

01:19:41 This is real.

01:19:44 Aldo decided to tell his family of the abuse he'd endured.

01:19:48 unaware he would also be opening the lid

01:19:50 on the suffering of each and every one of his siblings.

01:19:55 I called everyone to meet at my mom and dad's home

01:19:58 and I said, I just want you guys to know

01:20:02 that everything that they're saying is true

01:20:05 because it happened to me too.

01:20:08 Aldo's courageous admission led to all his siblings

01:20:11 finally sharing what they say Jackson had done to them.

01:20:15 It was the hardest thing for me to do was to admit it

01:20:18 oh yeah i can't describe the feeling the range of emotions that i was feeling at the time and coming

01:20:24 out okay so they've tried now to crack open this settlement they entered into in 2019 with the

01:20:33 jackson estate and they filed a lawsuit in california federal court trying to get their

01:20:39 day in front of a jury and the california court just tossed the lawsuit wow saying you signed

01:20:45 you signed a deal to arbitrate all claims. That's where you're going to have to resolve this. If at

01:20:51 all, you're going in front of an arbitrator as you agreed to do by contract back in 2019,

01:20:57 which is a very, very good ruling for the Michael Jackson estate. They'd much rather be in front of

01:21:02 an arbitrator who will be a somber, serious, probably retired judge who will now find whether

01:21:10 this settlement agreement they've reached can be voided. I guess that's what they're asking for

01:21:15 because they want more money or what. But this, I tell you, Maureen, I don't know about the Casio

01:21:21 family. I got real questions about them and this belated attempt to cash in on Michael Jackson's

01:21:29 renewed fame and success. They had no money in the estate for a long, long time. Now they do,

01:21:35 and they're back again this is this one is so interesting i i watched that 60 minutes piece

01:21:41 when it aired uh i do i am of the belief that michael jackson was a pedophile i think that

01:21:50 you know as you as you were like laying out in the in the very beginning of this

01:21:53 the father comes home with like michael jackson and bubbles and it's like he's going to be living

01:21:59 here indefinitely and like and it is weird but it's like it he's he's a lowly he's he may be the

01:22:07 head of the bellhops but like he's a lowly guy compared to michael jackson and now michael jackson

01:22:14 thinks i'm special me with my like two-car garage you know like okay um and you know and and that

01:22:23 that that was sort of the the thing with michael right it was like he had to be around children

01:22:28 But it was always said that it's just because he didn't have a childhood, you know, and I went back and watched that Oprah special with him as well, where he's like touring her around Neverland.

01:22:39 And it really does to me.

01:22:41 It did look like a pedophile's lair.

01:22:43 Now, the thing about the Casio story that raises questions for me is that the girl, the sister, the lone sister says he did it to me, too.

01:22:54 and all the allegations the history of this has been that if if you do believe michael jackson

01:23:02 was a pedophile he was inclined to little boys not little girls for what it's worth the last

01:23:09 reporting i read on this said that paris jackson had been in conversation with the cassio family

01:23:17 and does believe them and i think this has caused a significant estrangement between

01:23:23 Paris and her brothers? I think that's right, but she couldn't know. To be honest, I'm sure

01:23:33 she's got a better informed opinion than most of us because she's had access to the estate and she

01:23:37 knows all the players and so on. But I mean, she was too little, in other words, to actually have

01:23:42 seen much that would have shown her whether he was or he wasn't. Of course, his entire family

01:23:48 says absolutely not. His family has stood by him, except for Latoya, who for a brief time said she

01:23:55 believed these allegations, but then recanted that and said her abusive husband kind of made her say

01:24:00 it. But I think this is a very good ruling for the Michael Jackson estate because they signed a deal.

01:24:07 They were trying to get out of it. They wanted to get it in front of a jury, which most plaintiffs

01:24:11 think they'll do better in front of. And this judge did the right thing by saying nobody forced

01:24:16 you to sign an arbitration agreement for any future claims that's you signed it and honestly

01:24:21 like to me maureen if they had just come forward to say this happened we want to set the record

01:24:28 straight it happened it it would have been a game changer in the whole narratives around michael

01:24:33 jackson because there's so much he said she said or he said he said there's so many credibility

01:24:38 problems with his accusers that you could really like i can see why people are like absolutely not

01:24:42 i don't believe them and every plaintiff has had their handout i want to get paid including these

01:24:48 four and in in this 60 minutes australia piece like that that they seem very affected the one

01:24:54 aldo who we showed was like oh and he was like there was no tears it was like yes that was my

01:25:00 problem with that i'm not sure i buy this that was my problem with that too it was it was very

01:25:04 affected uh you know the but i will say this if i say my claim and and let's say i'm coming at this

01:25:14 and it absolutely happened to me right i was serially abused by this guy who was like the

01:25:19 biggest pop star on the planet and there was an entire infrastructure around it that allowed it

01:25:24 to happen um i i would want money i would i think that this is i think that this is also kind of

01:25:31 like the Pandora's box that the Michael Jackson biopic opened, right? That movie has grossed over

01:25:36 $1 billion. And that movie was a definite legacy play. And it was restoring Michael Jackson into

01:25:45 the pantheon as just an unbelievable artist of one of a kind. The problem now is that that movie

01:25:51 is so successful, they have to make a sequel. They can't leave money on the table. But where do you

01:25:59 go with this story when we all know what chapter two is i have an idea tell me i have an idea

01:26:05 because the in the original they did reportedly cover the abuse allegations obviously it would

01:26:12 have been in a way that was favorable to michael um and they had to take it out because somebody

01:26:18 at the last minute realized that they had signed deals with these accusers who they were featuring

01:26:23 in the movie that required them to never speak of these people again. So the estate is bound by

01:26:31 those agreements signed by Michael. And therefore they couldn't do like some hit piece on the early

01:26:37 accusers in movie form. They would have gotten sued. They would have lost every dollar of that

01:26:42 billion. So they lobbed off that portion of the movie and they left it at just like, look at the

01:26:47 singing and the dancing, but I think they will do something like fictional. They, they will say

01:26:56 something like, you know, some of these allegations have been fictionalized or these people have been

01:26:59 fictionalized and they'll portray the scandal in a way that's very favorable to him and show that,

01:27:07 oh, these are all grifters who try to make money off of Michael, et cetera, et cetera,

01:27:10 in a way that they think is exonerating, but doesn't violate the agreement. They'll find some

01:27:15 clever way of like getting around the actual named plaintiffs and their actual stories i think so

01:27:22 because i i my information is they're in the process right now of making part two so this is

01:27:27 so fascinating when this movie dropped and the casio piece on 60 minutes dropped i went and found

01:27:33 there are two celebrity memoirs that are like out of print very hard to get and they go for like

01:27:38 hundreds of bucks one was uh latoya's memoir which i got and the other was katherine jackson's

01:27:45 memoir which i got and i need to go through them because in katherine jackson's memoir she's the

01:27:50 matriarch apparently she does write about joe the patriarch as a very very very abusive guy

01:27:57 um and it that book is like out of print you would think these books would be coming back

01:28:02 into print with the renewed interest um yeah the other thing that struck me as very telling

01:28:08 the second most famous jackson is janet jackson who is beloved like you and i have a similar

01:28:15 vintage right janet of good times right like yes sweet little janet jackson everybody loves janet

01:28:23 she was nowhere to be seen during this major media rollout for this movie about her brother's

01:28:30 life starring her nephew spoken to it

01:28:32 the younger audience may not realize like janet was almost as famous as michael yeah i mean she

01:28:38 was huge in her music career the the beginning of the end of it was that super bowl stunt

01:28:45 which she says she paid for with her career and justin timberlake suffered no consequences i agree

01:28:51 with her where he he ripped down like a patch over her and exposed her naked breast yeah no it was 1.00

01:28:58 total bullshit. But yet I don't think she's ever said anything about any of it. So you're right. 0.99

01:29:04 She's the big sort of the white whale of this whole thing. Like what does Janet Jackson think?

01:29:09 But you're right. She wasn't anywhere near the movie apparatus. Okay. Got to take a break. We

01:29:14 have more to do. Update on Nick Reiner, what we just learned from the court proceeding about his

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01:31:44 It's bold, no BS news, only on the Megyn Kelly channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.

01:31:56 Maureen Callahan is back with me. She's the host of The Nerve. Go and subscribe now.

01:32:01 Maureen, a Los Angeles grand jury has now officially indicted Nick Reiner, 32, for allegedly murdering his parents,

01:32:09 director Rob Reiner and producer Michelle Singer Reiner in their Brentwood home on December 14th,

01:32:15 2025. The July 20th indictment was unsealed yesterday. He's pleaded not guilty. He does

01:32:22 remain jailed without bail, but here's what's interesting about it. The prosecutors are now

01:32:27 alleging, we know, just learned, that Nick intentionally killed his parents by means of

01:32:34 lying in wait. He was lying in wait, apparently in their home, waiting for them to get home.

01:32:43 We believe from that Conan O'Brien Christmas party, right? Wasn't that where they were earlier

01:32:48 that evening where they said that he had been behaving erratically and that there was an

01:32:53 argument? The indictment also alleges multiple murders, use of a knife, and acts demonstrating

01:32:59 a high degree of cruelty, viciousness, or callousness.

01:33:03 Lying in wait is an enhancement to the charge.

01:33:08 He could potentially face life without parole

01:33:10 or the death penalty, realistically.

01:33:13 They're not doing the death penalty in California,

01:33:15 but it is a death-eligible crime

01:33:18 with this special circumstance added to it, I believe.

01:33:22 The prosecutors have not yet decided

01:33:24 whether, in fact, to seek the death penalty,

01:33:27 but wow, I mean, wow.

01:33:28 And now the DA, Nathan Hockman, has said this, quote, this is a profound betrayal by someone who is loved and trusted by the very people he is accused of killing.

01:33:38 That is pretty remarkable.

01:33:40 I mean, if they are, there's, I just feel like there's only one reason why they would even introduce this, that he was lying in wait, this enhancement into the case.

01:33:48 To me, it suggests they may indeed be considering going for the death penalty against this guy.

01:33:53 I just, it seems hard to believe.

01:33:55 I don't know why I guess just because he seems so drug addled but anything's possible what do

01:34:02 you make of it when I heard this yesterday I was so I mean is gratified the right word

01:34:10 it just felt I was like okay like the the DA is going for what what seemed to be clear from what

01:34:18 we learned in the aftermath of this horrific double homicide. He, I believe, if I recall

01:34:25 correctly, left the party before the parents. Did he? Yes. Okay. Well, he was asked to and he

01:34:34 wouldn't at first, but I think he did. Because then he had a fight with Rob. And the reporting

01:34:38 also out of that was that there was an admonition to the catering staff that night to hide the

01:34:44 knives. Once Rob asked Conan if he could bring his very troubled, drug-addicted son.

01:34:52 So that alone, him leaving before they got home, you're premeditating this. You're premeditating

01:35:00 this. Then, based on what we know of the crime scene, it seems that he, like the coward he is, 0.98

01:35:07 waited for them to go to sleep, because it's much easier to commit. He's one guy trying to 0.94

01:35:15 commit double homicide, and Rob Reiner's a substantial guy. So you wait for them to go

01:35:20 to sleep so you can get this done. The reporting is also that the mother's body was found,

01:35:26 I believe, in the bathroom, which seems to indicate that she tried to flee and lock herself

01:35:32 in. And he went after her. So he absolutely was lying in wait. And what I also love about this

01:35:38 is it completely dismantles what we all know this guy is going to go for. Mental illness, 0.79

01:35:44 a drug-addled brain. It shows malice aforethought. And if they don't go for the death penalty, 1.00

01:35:52 I'm sure some nice woman somewhere will be waiting to marry him.

01:35:54 ah sadly you're right but it's just so dark to think about him lying in wait for his parents

01:36:03 in their home they come in they're getting changed they're probably talking about him

01:36:10 because he caused a scene at conan o'brien's house earlier that evening which i'm sure they

01:36:15 were embarrassed by and i'm sure they were angry and concerned about him and so he could be for

01:36:22 all we know, what? Sitting in the closet. Where was he? Where on the property was he waiting for

01:36:27 his parents to get into their bed so that he could slice their throats? I mean, this guy is beyond 0.99

01:36:34 sick and he's got two other siblings who are still alive who will probably be consulted on what the

01:36:42 DA seeks and whether we turn this into a death penalty case. I mean, that's further updates to

01:36:48 follow. Okay. Ending it on a somewhat lighter note, big news out of Washington yesterday,

01:36:54 as we learned that Caroline Levitt is stepping down as white house press secretary. She served

01:37:00 honorably. She did her duty spectacularly. I mean, better than anybody in recent history,

01:37:06 in my view. And, um, of course she has been, and the resignation is fodder for the late night,

01:37:13 hosts, including the normally nice guy, Jimmy Fallon. This is how he handled it.

01:37:21 Some more big news today. Trump announced that

01:37:23 Caroline Levitt is resigning as White House press secretary.

01:37:33 That story again, Caroline Levitt was definitely one of the staffers left on Air Force One.

01:37:38 Oh, really? You didn't take me?

01:37:39 Yeah. Apparently she's moving on to an easier job working as the press secretary for Taylor 0.99

01:37:44 Farms Lettuce. Oh, OK, it's fine. It's not great. I just feel like Caroline Levitt has taken

01:37:52 a beating by the left wing press who really thinks she's like a handmaiden to the devil.

01:37:58 And all she really is, is a 28 year old, extremely talented young Republican who did her patriotic

01:38:06 duty and served a president she loved, managed the very difficult dual role of mother to two

01:38:13 babies while doing one of the most difficult jobs in the world. And this is totally foreseeable.

01:38:17 I don't think there's anything about, oh, she had to leave the, she's mad that she was one of the 0.92

01:38:22 decoys on Air Force One or any of the other bullshit I'm reading about her online by the 0.99

01:38:26 left-wing rags that can't stand her. I think she genuinely wants to be at home with her baby 0.99

01:38:31 daughter and her son, who's only now about two and good for her. I, we were in her debt.

01:38:37 Well, I have to say, I read the daily mail coverage of this yesterday too. And I was like,

01:38:43 oh my God, did he leave her on air force one when he was getting wheeled out and that catering thing,

01:38:49 like Taylor Swift and the air store, like to avoid an Iranian hit. Like I quit too. 0.56

01:38:54 That's kind of like, you can't come back from that. You can't come back from it. Like I'm

01:38:57 wait, I await the memoir. Uh, I don't think that was it. I really don't. I, it was kind of funny

01:39:03 for the listening audience. If you don't know Trump, when he was ushered off of air force one

01:39:09 onto another plane, um, coming back from the middle East, we now know that it was, there was

01:39:14 a whole switcheroo that he did because he'd been told by Israel that the Iranians were allegedly

01:39:19 going to take a shot at him in the air. Our own intelligence services said, don't, don't believe

01:39:25 that. That's not true. We're really not convinced that that's real, but the secret service,

01:39:30 it's their job to assume everything's real. And they got him off and they left the press corps

01:39:34 and some of his admin officials on the original air force one. And, and there, some of the press

01:39:39 in particular has been like, what the F we were, we sitting ducks. You left us there, but clearly

01:39:44 they didn't, there was reason to discount the Intel that had been given to us. So, uh, in any

01:39:49 event, I wish her well, Maureen, it's very hard to do that kind of a job. Very hard. She was nimble,

01:39:53 professional smart pugilistic but likable that's a very difficult combo especially in a young woman

01:40:01 um and she just did it with finesse so god bless godspeed and i really hope she looks forward to

01:40:07 those beautiful babes and i look forward to seeing her in her show on fox news which is inevitably

01:40:12 where this will go great to see you feel better my friend oh thank you megan again i'm so sorry

01:40:19 I'm not there with you in person, but you don't want anything to do with this right now. I can't

01:40:24 wait to see you in the fall. The next time. Exactly. We'll do it, uh, 30 days or so from

01:40:29 now and, uh, face to face and maybe with some liquor. I'd love it. And I hope all of you have

01:40:36 a great weekend. Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda and no fear.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - August 13, 2026

Ariana Grande Is Being FAILED by Those Around Her, Meghan Markle ESCALATES Feud with Martha Stewart, with Maureen Callahan ｜ Ep. 1379

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