Black Male Clancy Juror Lone Holdout is Allegedly REPUBLICAN, and Charlie Kirk Family May SUE Over UVU Security, with Geragos, Murphy, Aronberg, and Frei ｜ Ep. 1399
00:01:36.060I mean, I've wondered whether they would do this for a long time now.
00:01:42.260I mean, there are serious questions about why so little was done to keep him safe, truly.
00:01:50.180And now those questions are being asked by his family directly
00:01:54.060as they point the finger at the university.
00:01:57.200So we'll get into it. This raises a bunch of issues. It is a public university. Sometimes those are provided with immunity. Sometimes it's waived. We'll talk about that. And you can bet that the university is going to point the finger right back at the Turning Point security team.
00:02:15.620That would be a question of apportionment, but we're going to get into all of it.
00:02:21.000It was a, ugh, just, it raises so many awful memories.
00:02:26.060And the lawsuit reveals a lot that we didn't know about what Turning Point had done with respect to the university to tell them,
00:02:35.220he's a target, please be sure he's safe, what about the rooftops, et cetera.
00:02:41.180So we'll do those details in just a bit.
00:02:43.820Okay, but we are beginning today with the holdout juror in the Lindsey Clancy case, who is now speaking out, at least indirectly.
00:02:55.100There is a guy named Ray Marcel, who hosts a YouTube channel called Fugitive TV.
00:03:00.300And Ray says he spoke with a holdout juror for about an hour yesterday about both the Clancy case and about this juror's past, as has now been repeated in the Boston Globe and elsewhere.
00:03:16.020Now, he wanted to verify that he spoke to this juror, and he showed a picture of the juror's summons in the case.
00:03:24.520Now, Ray Marcel has named the juror. He's named him and he said his name repeatedly. And he's also put out a picture, two pictures of the juror because he says the juror.
00:03:37.880Well, he doesn't want people making donations to, I guess, fakers who are saying they are the juror.
00:04:04.120because it's not important for me to say it here.
00:04:06.740I do believe Ray Marcel has been in touch with him,
00:04:09.000but until the juror comes out himself and confirms that it's him,
00:04:13.560I'm going to stick with just a first name.
00:04:15.620Uh, he wrote Ray Marcel. This is Lindsay Clancy juror. Michael, he sent me these photos. Do not
00:04:22.640send anyone any money that is not him because there are definitely some fakers on the internet
00:04:27.840right now purporting to be the holdout juror. Now, Marcel says that Michael told him there's
00:04:33.180far more to the story about these domestic abuse allegations against him, um, from his now ex-wife.
00:04:41.000This goes back six years. We shouldn't be talking about this at all. We shouldn't be. This is harassment of a juror who did nothing other than answer the call to civic duty. This is so wrong. I'm sorry that this has been crammed down our throats by these activist other jurors who took aim at this guy piled on like a bunch of bullies.
00:05:02.400And then NBC Boston joined in by unearthing these allegations in his past, the Boston Globe.
00:05:09.760Now, every publication is out with it, and this guy's having to deal with it.
00:05:14.240And we understand, we believe that the prosecution and defense teams are likely dealing with it, too, because they've just brought on a new lawyer.
00:05:23.180There's definitely going to be another hearing.
00:05:24.680and Kevin Reddington, the defense lawyer, is uncharacteristically silent about the matter
00:05:31.200of this juror and his so-called past. So you can bet he's getting ready to do something about it
00:05:38.000because there's no way he'd be saying nothing if he weren't actively going to use it. That's my
00:05:45.100own take. Okay. So this Michael has allegedly told Ray, this guy, Ray Marcel, that that incident
00:05:56.240with his ex-wife, keep in mind what NBC Boston reported was that back in 2021, that Michael
00:06:05.560allegedly assaulted his ex-wife or his wife at the time, and that his 13-year-old nephew called
00:06:12.560the cops on Michael, that Michael's mother was yelling, you're evil, as he allegedly did this to
00:06:19.040her, and that the wife was disgusted and filed for divorce, and then they got a divorce. Well,
00:06:26.780Michael seems to be saying there's more to that story and says he was actually the one who filed
00:06:32.840for divorce, not his wife, after learning that she was an illegal immigrant. Now, we understand that
00:06:40.860Michael is a legal immigrant from Haiti regarding that 2021 incident with his nephew and all that that would later lead to a restraining order because it got renewed where the where the the nephew six years later came out to say that Michael allegedly assaulted him because he blamed him for calling the cops after that incident with the wife and that the nephew got a restraining order.
00:09:03.640He told me that the eight that on day one were going for a Lindsey not guilty, he said to him, those eight felt he felt like they were activists.
00:09:16.360He felt like they were activists is what he told me.
00:09:22.780And every day he said they would vote every day.
00:09:26.360they would vote. He said the eight that felt that Lindsey was not guilty were trying to convince
00:09:33.280the other four, hey, Lindsey's not guilty. Oh, wait a minute. So you're telling me he wasn't
00:09:41.820the only holdout, nutcase, crazy man who wouldn't apply the reasonable doubt standard.
00:09:48.580You're telling me that at least four of the jurors when they first started deliberating0.64
00:09:52.720really were considering, and at least two had preliminarily decided, to find her guilty.
00:10:00.220So maybe this guy isn't quite as much of a lunatic as the other jurors now say.
00:10:05.180This guy, Ray Marcel, who did the interview, also pointed to a possible reason
00:10:10.220why the other jurors who truly have presented themselves like a bunch of far-left nutcase activists
00:10:19.120were so upset with the holdout Michael watch very well-spoken person very well-spoken spoken
00:10:27.880um very nice very kind Catholic and you want to hear something very funny we started talking
00:10:37.060he thinks he knows why he might be getting targeted he's a Republican
00:10:43.420uh oh he is a black republican he has conservative views
00:10:49.860he believes he might be getting targeted because of that
00:10:55.500because the media and the reporters as you see they kind of have left views
00:11:05.220he was in a juror panel with people of the democratic party now we don't know if that
00:11:14.100is the reason but we talked about it and then as soon as he told me that he was republican
00:11:20.600it just common sense i said this makes sense now hell hath no fury like a white liberal0.95
00:11:45.160How many times have we seen this from Clarence Thomas on down?0.98
00:11:49.400It is like the worst sin you can commit as a black American0.96
00:11:53.420is to not go along with liberal dogma in the eyes of some nuts,0.97
00:11:57.740The activist class over on the far left. So is it so hard to believe that if they know that? I mean, that's the link that wasn't established. Did the jurors know that? Does the media know that? I haven't bothered to go pull this guy's voter registration to see if it's knowable, nor did I see that in the original reports by NBC Boston.
00:12:19.700But it's possible he told those juries, sorry, those jurors on the jury about his politics, or maybe they just gleaned it from, like, the sensible comments he kept making.
00:12:33.640But there's still a lot to dissect here because he spoke directly to that jury questionnaire and how he figured it out, which I'm going to play in one second.
00:14:28.520This one's so juicy, and man, do I have a good panel and you two to get into this.
00:14:33.040Let me tell you what he said about the jury questionnaire, because this is where people have gone.
00:14:38.240Did he did he fill out the jury questionnaire? Honestly, Garagos, this is so up your alley in what we talked about two weeks ago with Rochelle Neese and the Scott Peterson trial.
00:14:47.720But the question is, did Michael honestly complete the jury questionnaire, which certainly would have asked about prior arrests, alleged crimes committed or interactions with the legal system?
00:15:02.220Here is Ray Marcel talking about that in SOT 6.
00:15:07.320on the questionnaire. Did he lie or didn't he lie? He told me he didn't lie. He told me he
00:15:14.920checked the box that he was supposed to check. Have you ever been arrested? And he says he knows
00:15:21.140he checked it because he had to describe what happened after he checked that. So he checked it
00:15:27.540and described what happened. He said he got on the stand and I guess the prosecutor asked him
00:15:34.740questions the prosecutor questioned him and then guess what after that he was selected so in his
00:15:42.940words he said no he didn't lie on a questionnaire he was questioned by the prosecution and was
00:15:50.180selected okay garrigo so if that's true he filled out the form and the prosecutor it makes perfect
00:15:56.220sense right the prosecution would be the one to be like uh so michael what's the story with your
00:16:01.220alleged arrest. And it sounds like he answered it to the satisfaction of the prosecutor. And I'll
00:16:06.360bet you Reddington was like, I'm not going there. He sounds like he'd be a good jury, a juror for
00:16:10.780me, which he turned out not to be. So the Matt and I discussed this last week. It's why I've
00:16:17.060wanted to Matt. Matt had said he just got out of the water and he wanted to talk. And then I had
00:16:21.900to be cut off to listen. But normally, that is a prosecutor's first peremptory strike.
00:16:32.160So I don't, I mean, it is so counterintuitive. But can I tell you something? It fits in with
00:16:39.240what I've been calling this entire case. It's upside down world. Almost never do you have
00:16:48.120one juror holding out for guilt number one no almost never do you have and we saw it with gail
00:16:56.720king and her kind of her brain uh stroke uh during the interview because i for lack of a better for
00:17:04.420lack of a better term it didn't i she didn't use the word process but i i know that's what was
00:17:10.980happening she was trying to process gonna have to she's like a fembot from uh juror is a black man
00:17:16.880I mean, it's just wait a second. Black man hold out for guilt. You know, it was just did not compute records. Right. And then the idea of a defense lawyer, Kevin Reddington, having to lambaste the holdout when you've spent your entire career.0.98
00:17:36.260i i was telling matt i think i have probably i stopped counting at 20 hung juries and most of
00:17:44.160them were either 11 to 1 or 10 to 2 almost exclusively and i don't think a single one
00:17:51.700maybe one was uh this kind of a situation where it was for in favor of not guilty it's almost
00:17:58.740inevitably um for guilt and there's one last person who is holding out in fact matt famously
00:18:06.200there was a woman in Frank Fassel's court in Orange County after 18 weeks of trial in that
00:18:12.720courtroom in Matt's backyard that one lone woman held out on 56 counts. It was the most insane0.72
00:18:20.340thing I've ever seen. I don't even know what kind of pressure you're under. But I would push back
00:18:24.900on a couple of things, as I love to do with you when I listen to your monologues. The idea,
00:18:33.380if you've talked to jurors afterwards, and my father, who was my idol, used to say the same
00:18:39.200thing, they'll drive you crazy if you talk to them after the trial. I still do it, but it does
00:18:45.400drive you crazy. It's usually the first, the second, the third vote in a case that has large
00:18:53.100consequences can change. And that's part of the dynamic. Part of the reason for jury selection,
00:19:00.420at least what i do is i'm looking for when i pick a jury i'm looking for a one person who's going to
00:19:07.820be the general and one person who's going to be the lieutenant because that's who ends up
00:19:12.140determining it jury selection is not to get 12 jurors that you want it's basically to get two
00:19:17.980that are gonna that are gonna make your case back there when they get there also that goes and fits
00:19:23.880in with closing argument closing argument is not to cinch the deal it's to give your jurors
00:19:29.700the arguments they need in order to persuade the others. So it doesn't surprise me when he says
00:19:35.680there was a split. It doesn't surprise me on anything else. But I will tell you what has
00:19:39.640happened since these interviews is some of the stuff that the jurors who were voting not guilty
00:19:48.020said, it has led me to believe more that the prosecution's got a better argument that this
00:19:53.980guy was not violating his own. Even though there have been people who said it's disgusting,
00:19:59.700about rubbing about tying the exercise band around the bottle frankly i think that there's a compelling
00:20:05.600argument that that was dealing with the evidence and that was somebody who was deliberating and
00:20:11.240you can have to the note itself you can have a doubt and it does not necessarily uh kind of rise
00:20:19.820to the level of reasonable doubt so i mean that's his answer the one thing you just said which i
00:20:25.280didn't know. And I've been saying that if this juror comes out and says, hey, I'm Catholic and
00:20:31.580mortal sin really got me and I couldn't get past that, that changes everything for Kevin Reddington
00:20:37.360and for Lindy Clancy. But other than that, this is fascinating. But I think anybody who excoriates
00:20:45.600jurors after the fact, that just violates my line to the kind of red line in the sand.
00:20:52.280And this is so crazy that this is being done to this guy.
00:20:56.160Just so the audience knows, Mark's making a reference to the fact that one of the other
00:21:00.300jurors said, oh, this guy, Michael, so bad.
00:21:02.820One of the things he did during deliberations was to take the exercise bans that were used
00:21:08.460And he wrapped one around a water bottle.0.99
00:21:11.320And we just thought that was so horrible.
00:21:13.340And actually, this guy, Ray, spoke to that too, Marcel.
00:21:16.900He said he asked the holdout juror about that and that the holdout juror actually spoke
00:21:21.760to it with Marcel. Here's how that went. We even talked about the water bottle, how he tied the
00:21:27.840string around the water bottle. He said he did it to set an example. He did it to set an example
00:21:33.940and show people this is what the string was used for. Imagine the water bottle as their little
00:21:41.140necks. That's exactly why he did that to the water bottle. And he even said he explained it.
00:21:48.840So he doesn't know why some of these people are acting like he didn't explain what he did with the water bottle.
00:21:55.540He said some of the things that they're talking about him is either not the whole truth, the half truth or just plain out lies.
00:22:05.120hmm okay so matt what could you weigh in on this because this have you ever seen anything like this
00:22:12.580where there's a pile on by the other jury members of the one holdout after the verdict and then the
00:22:18.840media is all over the guy like he's the one who strangled three children you know megan some
00:22:24.600mornings i wake up and it's like this is a day megan kelly's gonna get me in trouble you know
00:22:28.380and i'm so glad that mark is on the show today because this this broke right after we finished
00:22:34.420our our taping last week and no mark is exactly right i i have never seen anything like this i
00:22:42.160don't think anybody's ever seen anything like this this is this is mark calls it his red line
00:22:47.560it's it's outrageous with a ton to this guy but if i could just weigh in and probably regret it
00:22:54.700later um one of the things that mark that mark did not just say um is mark like me you know how
00:23:03.400Gayle King's head exploded. Like I thought Fembot from Austin Powers, remember at the end when their
00:23:09.240heads blow up because you can't process the information. Look, Mark and I have done the0.88
00:23:15.680majority of our cases in Southern California. And despite what you see in Real Housewives or
00:23:21.460the OC, Orange County is only 36 percent white, whatever that means, like white jurors.
00:23:29.280And, you know, I tried 133 jury trials in Orange County, Megan, and I never had a single black man vote against me at the end.
00:23:39.520Not one. And what you see over and over again is you see these these young, idealistic kind of public defenders straight out of law school who come in and they buy into this media narrative that every black man in America has some some insurmountable chip on his shoulder and wants to subvert the justice system.
00:23:58.700And they can't sit there like the same question is asked of every juror. Can you put aside any preconceived notions or any preconceived experience you had and decide the case based on your common sense, the law and the facts as presented?
00:24:11.780Every juror is asked the same question. And this idea that a black man can't do that.
00:24:16.600You see these young public defenders. And this is a little bit technical here, but a lot of judges use what are called six packs where you have the 12 12 seats with the prospective jurors.
00:24:27.820And then you'll have six alternate or prospective alternates sitting in front of them.
00:24:32.040So you can see the next jurors that are coming up that are going to be selected as you exercise your peremptory challenges.0.52
00:24:38.720And the you see this over and over again, this kind of soft racism where they will kick juror after juror after juror because you can see the black man coming up and then they'll they'll impanel them using their last peremptory.
00:24:53.100And I mean, this is this is something I hope I'm not giving away. I hope I'm not giving away any playbook here. But you see that over and over again, Megan, where inexperienced defense leaders, not just public defenders, but they buy into the narrative.
00:25:07.800and say, oh, that guy's going to be for me for sure. Mark will not be surprised at all. I cannot
00:25:13.240tell you, Megan, how many times that guy has been the floor person of my jury corralling other
00:25:19.340reluctant jurors into a conviction. And I did vertical prosecution for 21 years, sexual assault
00:25:26.580and homicide. Not one case in 133 jury trials in Orange County did I have a black man vote against
00:25:34.840me at the end, not a single time. So Mark wasn't surprised. I'm just going to have to sit with that0.93
00:25:40.620for a minute. Yeah, sit with that. I have to sit with that. Do you want to process? Let me tell
00:25:45.960you, let me tell you why not. I can process it and I'll tell you why, because I'm, I'm, I've
00:25:52.580disavowed my whiteness. Like the other clip we had from that woman, what did she say? I'm a
00:25:58.740non-practicing white. That's what the white young woman said, like some millennial or Gen Z, or
00:26:04.420She's like, I'm also upset about this, but I'm white, but I'm a non-practicing white.0.59
00:26:08.880So so anyway, that's what that's what I'm going to be from now on so that I can check all the boxes and I get all the minority hiring and benefits.0.73
00:26:16.720I'm going to tell my children to check the box on non-practicing so we can check whatever box we want.0.60
00:26:21.560People have gone crazy over the race issue and the fact that the holdout is a black man.0.69
00:26:26.020And God forbid a black conservative, as I said at the top, the most controversial thing you can be in America.0.68
00:26:31.900But here's what I want to know, Mark. What what can be done now? Like, because, you know, Kevin Reddington's wheels are spinning. You know, how can I because you just brought on this defense lawyer to the defense team who's going to argue double jeopardy.0.96
00:26:47.880And that's kind of an interesting argument because there wasn't a verdict.
00:26:55.060That's the whole thing is that it was a mistrial.
00:26:57.320But I think he's getting ready to argue because he didn't want the mistrial.
00:27:01.820Unlike the Karen Reed case where they agreed to a mistrial, he didn't want the mistrial.
00:27:08.740So can he argue with this new defense lawyer that the judge did an insufficient examination of the holdout juror?
00:27:16.820Now it turns out the holdout juror had a restraining order, which I'm not sure if he disclosed that he that wasn't hit specifically.
00:27:26.240The prior arrest was hit specifically and that should have been disclosed and it wasn't.
00:27:31.960And therefore, he shouldn't been on the jury. And you would have found that out had you voidered him more carefully, judge.
00:27:36.520And therefore, the proper remedy was to bounce that 11, that 12th juror, which you didn't do.
00:27:41.380And I had 11 willing to vote for me and therefore double jeopardy somehow attaches.
00:27:45.920So they brought on, I believe, the same lawyer who made the argument in Karen Reed that the jury had found her not guilty on one of the murder charges before they went to the lesser included, which they were hung on behind closed doors.
00:28:04.340They had agreed no to second degree and no to something else.
00:30:26.160because this is another upside down world because you almost always in fact i laughingly matt knows
00:30:33.680this he's heard me say this so many times i had to go to the court of appeal to get a published
00:30:37.560decision to get law in california that says a mistrial hung jury is better than a conviction
00:30:44.600because it is i mean it's it seems axiomatic but it is so he did not consent to it which is a
00:30:51.820very rare occurrence and they're going to argue because he didn't consent there was no manifest
00:30:57.400necessity the judge screwed up is what the argument is going to be and he was once in the
00:31:04.400she was once in jeopardy and they cannot prosecute again i frankly think this may because everything
00:31:10.980else about this case makes zero sense in terms of what usually happens this may be the one case
00:31:17.220where somebody wins a once in jeopardy or the best one I ever had was a case in Van Nuys many years
00:31:25.060ago where I had the judge writing after the mistrial to the head prosecutor. I granted the
00:31:31.840mistrial by Garrigus because of prosecutorial misconduct. As soon as I put that notice in
00:31:36.860exhibit, I got a misdemeanor on a life case, which Matt knows means they waved the white flag.
00:31:43.200And I there I suspect also and I'll add one more thing and then want Matt to weigh in when people thought, including me, that Kevin Reddington had had a mini stroke or a Gayle King brain dysfunction when he when he asked Trump to pardon her.
00:32:02.000look what ended up happening trump was questioned trump said there's you know federal doesn't work
00:32:09.120but there's no winners and they ought to resolve the case basically if kevin did that intentionally
00:32:15.400it's genius because he got exactly what he needed which was permission from the president to tim
00:32:21.420cruz who was reportedly a um a staunch republican make this case go away interesting wait i the
00:32:30.840The manifest necessity requirement saying that there's a statutory right against an unreasonable, substantial, or serious interference.
00:32:44.960The manifest necessity, like the declaration of the mistrial has to have been by manifest necessity, but the case law on manifest necessity seems extremely clear that if the jury can't reach a verdict, you've got it.
00:32:57.600And it doesn't matter whether the defense attorney wants to go along with it, Matt.
00:33:01.480Yeah, I think Mark's Mark's analysis on what they're going to do appellate wise is exactly right.
00:33:06.960I think that what the court is going to do with that, though, I think the court's going to look at this and they're going to say, Kevin Rennington, you had every opportunity to to voir dire this guy.
00:33:16.760You had all of it. You picked him. And this is the process.
00:33:21.200This is a guy who held out and that's the way it works. And I don't know if they want to open the floodgates to the idea that that a that a juror who's not going along with the rest means that somehow we've got to we've got to flush the case or anything like that because of these exact same reasons Mark just explained at the beginning.
00:33:42.920And that is the vast majority of these, you know, 10 to 11 to one hangers are are for the prosecution.
00:33:50.280It's it's 10 jurors that want to convict or 11 jurors that want to convict.
00:33:54.020I just I think that the remedy here is a new trial.
00:33:58.240And that's what they're getting anyway, theoretically.
00:34:26.120And, you know, presumably Reddington and the prosecutor will attest to this, that he's currently under a restraining order because of his alleged beating up of the nephew.
00:34:33.940you. And then Reddington is jumping up and down saying we would have wanted to know that both
00:34:40.480parties would have wanted to know he was under a current restraining order and we wouldn't have
00:34:44.260allowed him to sit on this jury. And therefore, normally the end of that sentence is we deserve
00:34:48.480a mistrial. But he already has a mistrial. Like there's the appellate court, the trial court and
00:34:54.140then the appellate court will both be limited in the remedies they can give him. And coming up with
00:35:00.620a verdict of not guilty by reason of mental defect after everyone's gone home is not on the list.
00:35:08.340No, it ain't going to happen in my view. I'll call that shot. And look, Kevin Reddington,
00:35:14.540Kevin Reddington picked the guy, you know, and I've never seen I've never seen a defense lawyer
00:35:20.200go out in open court and accuse a juror of committing a felony in open court like that.
00:35:27.100I don't know. I don't think Mark has ever seen that either. And then what we've seen afterwards, you know, in this silence, Megan, your take is interesting.
00:35:35.040There's another potential interpretation of how quiet Kevin Reddington is is being right now.
00:35:39.780And that is he's a little over his skis, in my opinion.
00:35:42.620And I don't know if this is true, but yesterday I read that he's been he's been having contact with Turtle Boy, who is a fixture in the Karen Reed case, who was charged, I believe, with felony conspiracy to intimidate witnesses.
00:35:56.420And I just saw an exchange yesterday between the two of them. And again, I haven't verified. I don't know if it's true. But if he's communicating with a guy that has been accused of actively subverting the criminal justice system, Kevin Reddington has crossed that red line, in my view, that Mark was talking about. And he's he may be silent because this might have gotten away from him a little bit. I'm sure he's going to plenty more to say, but he's got if that he's one of the ones that disclosed the name.
00:36:22.700He's one of the ones that disclosed the name of the juror.
00:36:25.200And apparently he was in contact with Kevin Reddington.
00:36:28.220That invites a state bar investigation that and look, and I don't know.0.70
00:36:33.160But oh, look, that that he may be quiet because if there's any truth to that, there's there's a text exchange purported to be between the two of them, which, by the way, was the most cringy, like, like back and forth ass kissing by Kevin Reddington.
00:36:50.020if it's true. I hope it's not. But look, being a criminal defense lawyer, Megan, is one of the
00:36:54.760most sacrosanct, important jobs in the American system of justice. And Kevin Reddington, love him
00:36:59.680or hate him, did an outstanding job for his client. I wasn't a fan of his closing argument. I don't
00:37:04.480think he should have called out the juror, but his opening was excellent. And that's an esteemed
00:37:09.440thing to do that's very important in the criminal justice system. And if he has then finished that
00:37:14.400And his next move is to cavort with some dude who has been accused of subverting the criminal justice system in another homicide case.
00:37:22.840That's a that is a suddenly low move.0.97
00:37:25.640And I'm not saying me, but a lot of people could look at that and think Kevin Reddington is kind of a scumbag, if that's true.0.82
00:37:31.980OK, so and I don't know if it is, but that's that may be why he's being quiet right now.0.95
00:37:38.300I don't know enough to weigh in personally on it, but that's another potential take.
00:37:43.540And I'm with Mark on this. This is upside down world. And you've got an esteemed, a criminal defense attorney who just did exactly what criminal defense attorneys are supposed to do, zealously defending his client. And if he's gone from that to to potentially intimidating the future jury pool or trying to dock somebody for for disagreeing with the law, according to Kevin Reddington, if that's true, he could be in trouble.
00:38:08.860And, yeah, I don't know what's going on in Massachusetts, but I guarantee there's people in the state bar that are looking at that.
00:38:16.040If those text messages that I read yesterday are real between Kevin Reddington and frigging Turtle Boy, he may have, you know, bigger things to worry about than just this trial right now.
00:38:49.880And Kevin Reddington ought to know that too.
00:38:51.840So I hope all of those reports are false.
00:38:53.200That's why they don't let defense lawyers suborn perjury.
00:38:56.200That's why you can't, as a defense attorney, put your client on his desk and knowingly let him lie because your first duty is to the integrity of the court.
00:39:02.420That's right. Not to getting your client. One of the reasons. Wait, let me let me just read the text messages that you're referring to that. We don't know whether these are true or not real. But there's this is circulating online purportedly from Kevin Reddington to Turtle Boy. Kevin Reddington allegedly writing looks like you had. This is from July 22nd. Looks like you had a great rolling rally off the record. You do a great job. Must much respect. You create Karen's innocence. I think he means Karen Reed.
00:39:30.700No one else created and showed. And then the response purportedly by Turtle Boy is, well, thank you, but I think her attorneys have done a great job too. Reddington allegedly agreed. I know Dave Yannetti well, great guy and attorney, but make no mistake. You have created this more than reasonable doubt. You are an incredible investigative reporter, not kissing your butt, LOL. You are amazing.
00:39:52.320And then, again, allegedly from Kevin,
00:39:55.340I think we got off on the wrong foot, as they say.
00:40:04.540I wish you would help me with Lindsay Clancy case.
00:40:08.000Then the next day, Turtle Boy purportedly responds,
00:40:11.320Kevin, I wrote positively about the Lindsay Clancy case.
00:40:14.320It was the hardest story I've ever had to write.
00:40:15.920Patrick Clancy is the strongest person I've ever seen,
00:40:18.240followed by Karen Reed, but thank you.
00:40:20.280So if that's real, it does raise the question about whether Turtle Boy got the name of this juror from Kevin Reddington, possibly as a thank you for his, quote, help with the Lindsay Clancy case.
00:40:35.900And if so, he could be in a lot of trouble because the name of that juror is still under, I don't know if we can say under seal, but it's definitely being kept private and confidential by this judge, an order that he's just extended, given the abuse that's taking place right now of this juror in particular.
00:40:55.960Yeah, look, it's just gross, for lack of a better term.
00:41:28.660I'm just hoping and I believe that Kevin, what happened with Kevin was he came out of there.
00:41:35.320He had invested so much into this case.
00:41:38.080He was so hyped up or amped up that he probably, to borrow Matt's term, was over his skis in terms of what he was saying.
00:41:49.160I think he regrets what he said, and that's why he's pulled back.
00:41:53.600I don't think. I mean, you have to just understand how just kind of inside out, upside down this situation is. It makes zero sense for anybody who is practiced for any period of time doing criminal defense. It's so.
00:42:12.900I get it. I get it. You said that. But wait, I just want to say two other things. That post, that exchange, alleged exchange that I just read was from July 22nd, 2023 during the Karen read. So that was that was not during this case. It was obviously forward looking and Lindsay Clancy was already under arrest and it was posted by Turtle Boy.
00:42:33.180So it's not like some third party. This is Turtle Boy saying, hey, here's my exchange with Kevin Reddington. And Kevin Reddington has not weighed in on it. And this was posted just yesterday. So we'll see. Time will tell what happened there.
00:42:49.960I want to keep going because there's this, what I think is a copycat case, a lot of folks
00:43:04.440She killed her two-year-old boy, forgive me, viewer warning, but by hanging him to death.
00:43:11.100And she was reportedly very, very intensely focused on the Lindsay Clancy case.
00:43:16.640And now we're getting more details about what allegedly happened. TMZ is reporting that she rambled to police about having gotten a breakfast sandwich at McDonald's in the afternoon and started singing a tune from The Wizard of Oz about the Yellow Brick Road after she allegedly killed her two-year-old son, Barrett, on September 1st.
00:43:40.240um she she then said that she went to a mickey d's that's how she put it for a breakfast sandwich
00:43:46.280in the afternoon of course people said you can't get a breakfast sandwich and mcdonald's in the
00:43:50.100afternoon but the point is simply this is i think obviously her team trying to make her sound just
00:43:56.280out of it maybe she really was out of it her attorney robert care reportedly told the judge
00:44:00.840all this about the mickey d's sandwich and the uh yellow brick road song while speaking to
00:44:06.340investigators, that she was allegedly, her defense lawyer says she was in and out of consciousness
00:44:11.280as she was taken away by EMTs. She was incoherently speaking to paramedics, telling
00:44:18.120first responders they, quote, looked like her daughter. During an ambulance ride, she started
00:44:22.520rattling off fruit names, her defense said. The defense is claiming she had a psychotic episode.
00:44:29.700She did have an eight-month-old baby, similar to Lindsay Clancy, Matt, but her eight-month-old baby
00:44:35.620was not killed. He was actually, I don't know if it was a boy or a girl, but the baby was left on
00:44:40.540the floor upstairs. The two older children who are just school age, they're all very young,
00:44:46.320came home from school in the middle of this event and ran to the neighbor. The neighbor came over
00:44:51.400and saw poor Barrett in this condition. You can use your imagination and got him down,
00:44:58.680tried to perform CPR. I mean, my heart goes out to that neighbor. That's a trauma from which that
00:45:02.900neighbor will never recover and it was too late for that boy but now here we go again here we go
00:45:09.160again matt though i will say having looked at it the standard for proving not guilty by mental
00:45:14.400defect in illinois is a lot tougher than it is in massachusetts yeah that's right it's a different
00:45:19.800it's a different standard um but did you see the shooting to segue for a second uh megan with uh
00:45:26.000in times square with that woman the crazy woman with the knives who killed that poor that poor
00:45:30.580woman did you psychotic episode the her brother the very first thing her brother said uh when he
00:45:37.300was interviewed was she's got postpartum and it turns out her son was either 23 years old or 28
00:45:43.500years old something like that so this is a this is going to be a thing we're going to see this as a
00:45:48.260defense over and over again hopefully this isn't a copycat this situation hopefully this is a woman0.99
00:45:53.200who's suffering from, you know, some disconnection from reality and some psychotic state or whatever1.00
00:46:01.480and she wasn't inspired by Lindsay Clancy, that would be horrible.
00:46:05.660But look, in Illinois, they use the McNaughton Rule.
00:46:17.480Can you summarize it, Matt, for the audience?
00:46:19.360So the McNaughton rule says basically you can be mentally ill, but the mental illness must be such that you do not understand the nature and quality of your actions when you kill.
00:46:28.820In other words, you're howling at the moon.0.98
00:46:30.720The example we always use is devil pops up on your shoulder and says, go over there and kill that person or I'm going to blow up the world.0.69
00:46:36.380That means the person, the defendant still knows it's a human being that they're killing.
00:46:40.300They're criminally responsible under those circumstances.
00:46:43.140If the devil says, go stab that banana over there, that space alien, they don't understand that it's a human being.
00:46:49.800And when they do it, they're not criminally responsible or they're legally insane.
00:46:54.320Massachusetts uses what's called the McCool Rule, which has a third prong.
00:46:58.400And that says you can, if you're suffering from mental illness, even if you know right from wrong, if you're unable to control your conduct to the requirements of the law, you can still be found criminally not responsible is the language that they use.
00:47:10.620So they've taken away the term insanity.
00:47:14.140So it gives a whole – a completely different kind of trial in places that follow Macquarie, which is – Massachusetts is the only one I know of.
00:47:23.000How does this likely go when you're getting out into the ether?
00:47:25.900She's naming off fruit names, and she's calling the paramedics, oh, you look just like my daughter, and she's singing The Wizard of Oz tunes.
00:47:33.440and her alleged reason for killing her child0.97
00:47:37.980was that she said she thought he was the devil
00:47:53.000but like, if you can prove she actually thought that,
00:47:55.300is that a not guilty by reason of mental defect in Illinois?
00:47:57.880Arguably, but I think what really happens in these cases,
00:48:02.200We sometimes glom onto them and say they're copycats, obviously, because it's the first thing the brain does.
00:48:10.040But to some degree, I've had the unfortunate happenstance over 40 years of dealing with many, many people who have mental health challenges.
00:48:21.640What they do is they glom onto, in a very real sense, whatever is kind of in the news ether or cultural ether.
00:48:34.020Wizard of Oz is not, but Lindsey Clancy clearly is.
00:48:38.120So I can go back over the last 40 years and I can tell you when there's somebody who's in the throes of one of these psychotic episodes, whatever is in the news tends to trigger with them.
00:48:51.320I'm sure you get, Megan, more than your share of people who are obviously disturbed, who are fixated on something, and that fixation starts to become part of their ideation. And I'm hoping that that's what this is. It sure resonates more to something like that, especially when you throw in the Wizard of Oz.
00:54:15.580pathological for good reason. Here's a quick look at last night's episode.
00:54:21.760Friday, June 27th, Casey is supposed to come back. Instead, she is allegedly now in Jacksonville,
00:54:29.140seeing whether she and her dear friend, Jeff Hopkins, have a future. And her car has developed
00:54:35.340problems as well. She claims Jeff does not want her driving be 141 miles to Orlando in it,
00:54:41.900so he has put it in the shop. That same Friday, the white Pontiac Sunfire, registered to Casey's
00:54:48.240parents, runs out of gas on East Colonial Drive in Orlando. Casey, who is not in Jacksonville,
00:54:56.980pulls the car into the lot of a payday loan store called Amscot, parks it next to a dumpster,
00:55:03.000and leaves. She tells Tony her father will come and get it. She does not tell her father about it.
00:55:09.740Oh, this like, it's incredible what happened in this case and reliving it. You can't believe this case went how it went. So we're delving deep into it. It's gotten great viewer feedback. Everybody loves MK Confidential. Thank you all so much.
00:55:25.860We are in the eighth of eight weeks on this ongoing series, which will then launch and morph into something different after the eight weeks because there's only so many resources in the day.
00:55:38.420But we love that you guys all love it so much.
00:55:41.620Three more episodes out each weeknight this week.
00:55:44.300Catch it while you can on the MK YouTube channel and podcast feeds.
00:55:48.000Joining me now on some additional legal cases are Dave Ehrenberg, co-host of the MK True Crime Show, and former litigator, not to mention, along with former litigator and Rumble creator, Viva Fry.
00:56:00.400Guys, welcome. Great to see you again. There's a lot to go over, but we, I think, need to start with this unbelievable Charlie Kirk lawsuit.
00:56:09.420I mean, to me, it seemed like just a matter of time before some sort of litigation was filed, whether it was by Charlie's team against, forgive me, his security guards or TPUSA and Charlie's family against UVU.
00:56:28.000It just seemed to me as a former litigator, someone was going to be on the receiving end of that finger of blame, because clearly, while the shooter is responsible for Charlie's death, he wasn't well protected that day.
00:56:54.200You know, Charlie was shot and killed in September of 2025, and it had been 14 months earlier that Trump was shot from a rooftop in a similar looking situation where it almost had an amphitheater feel by a young man of virtually the same exact age as Tyler Robinson and so on.
00:57:18.160So it's like, of course it was, I mean, almost everybody's first reaction after they got over
00:57:22.900the shock and horror that Charlie had been murdered was, from the roof?
01:09:37.120you're going to look at the security team
01:09:38.180They're going to say it's their bottom line decision to say, where is the rope attached to?
01:09:42.380Is it a good knot? Is it secure? Set that aside in the sequence of events.
01:09:46.620You can see how these things get lost in the shuffle, so to speak.
01:09:49.460But someone has to answer it for it at the end of the day, because it was a risk that was brought to their attention and the risk materialized in the most awful of manners.
01:09:57.460And so they don't just get to wash their hands and say, well, you know, no duty to care.
01:10:01.380You know, sovereign immunity. It wasn't negligence. No, it clearly was at best.
01:10:05.860I just do ask the question whether or not it was something far more sinister in terms of people deliberately leaving an access point for the easiest of shots to occur while assuring the security team that they had taken care of all of the weak spots.
01:10:19.580I mean, I get it. Charlie was extremely controversial. He wasn't exactly beloved by the university set. And I don't know whether there was an active dereliction of duty on anybody's part. Like, they just didn't give a damn what happened to him.
01:10:37.680Because you pointed it out a minute ago, Viva, getting on that roof could not have been easier.
01:10:43.240I mean, truly, if you wanted to set Charlie up for a catastrophic event, you wouldn't have done anything differently.
01:10:52.480Ryan Enten, great reporter with NewsNation, he went to that rooftop right around the preliminary hearing, Dave, and he filmed himself getting on top of it.
01:11:26.920this is a walkway here okay so you can get between buildings here um and on this side
01:11:36.720it's now gated off this was not gated off before the charlie kirk assassination but it is now
01:11:44.020gated off basically what investigators say tyler robinson did is this gate wasn't here so he just
01:11:49.440walked right over to that short little uh gate that you see over there that that more permanent
01:11:54.080gate and then all you had to do is just go right on top of that which would anybody could do it
01:11:58.840just take a second and then walk out on the roof and right over there on the edge would be a direct
01:12:06.100view just the perfect line of sight to where charlie kirk was speaking and the so-called
01:12:13.120fence that he would have had to go over for the listening audience is maybe three feet tall with
01:12:18.020rails on it, like wide open rails, maybe three rails and a foot in between each rails, almost
01:12:24.160inviting you to place your foot on the rail, swing your other leg over and pop right onto the
01:12:29.420rooftop. Yeah. And there are accounts that students frequently partied up there. They hung out up
01:12:34.240there. There's trash, beer bottles up there. And so this was an unsecured, unmonitored, high
01:12:39.520vantage point overlooking the main quad where thousands of people had gathered. So I must say
01:12:45.980And I respect what Viva is saying, but after being in government for so many years, it's just so much easier just to say it's incompetence than it is a bank on ineptitude.
01:12:58.420Right. Then a calculated here's a plan, because what is the police, the local police chief inside the school get out of it by letting someone kill Charlie Kirk on his watch?
01:13:07.680I think he gets lawsuits. He gets to lose his job. He gets possible just never get to work again in the security area.
01:13:15.240So I don't think it benefits anyone to have this done.
01:13:18.880I just think the easiest explanation is pure incompetence.
01:13:22.420It's stunning when you read like all the stuff about what they didn't do.
01:13:28.400You know, I read some of it, but they also allege this in the notice of claim.
01:13:33.620Placing a politically controversial figure like Charlie in an outdoor event in the quad,
01:13:37.940surrounded by tall buildings and other elevated observation platforms,
01:13:41.460is accurately described as walking him into a fishbowl.
01:13:45.240The UVU parties could have declined to approve the tour event in the outdoor quad location or could have moved the venue indoors or to a more secure location as it had done for controversial speakers in the past.
01:13:58.640Nevertheless, the UVU parties approved the event to be held at an outdoor venue, dramatically increasing security risks, but did not dedicate resources necessary to address the enhanced risk this approval created.
01:14:09.800And they spoke about how, Viva, they write about how the parties, they only assigned six cops from the campus police to the outdoor tour event that ultimately had about 3,000 in attendance.
01:14:20.860The chief and the campus police, Jeffrey Long, requested approval from the UVU president to allocate more than six officers, but the president declined.
01:14:31.200They denied. Astrid Tuminez denied the request.
01:14:36.380Then they fail to ask for assistance from outside police forces, such as the Orem or Provo Police.
01:14:42.700They write that the Orem Police, with whom the UVU has law enforcement cooperation agreements, didn't receive a call for assistance until after the assassination.
01:15:04.260It's surrounded by tall buildings. It's going to be like a fishbowl. Let's do it inside. And, you know, I know that at least at other times, Charlie was the one who wanted it outside because he wanted to pass her by to hear the debate and possibly be engaged by it and come over and be persuaded, you know.
01:15:29.360So all of that will be relevant and will be raised, but there are teams of people who are
01:15:35.900assigned the responsibility of keeping an on-campus speaker like Charlie Kirk safe.
01:15:41.720And in this particular instance, yes, it's his security team and the campus police.
01:15:47.140And in your normal negligence case or civil case, alleging something higher than negligence,
01:15:52.820worse than negligence, that would just be about apportionment, Dave, right?
01:15:57.100Like, out of the 100 percent responsible for securing the venue, how much was Charlie's team responsible and how much was UVU responsible?
01:16:08.060And that would typically be a jury question.
01:16:10.060Yeah, it depends on the law of Utah, whether they have that apportionment.
01:16:13.180Some states have it where every person, even not on the ballot, gets to be apportioned some percentage of blame.
01:16:19.680Others, it has to be 50 percent plus one.
01:16:22.360So it depends on whether Utah's adopted what standard.
01:16:26.720But it will be a part of any civil litigation that Charlie Kirk's own security team at least
01:17:23.080You can watch him drown and do nothing about it.
01:17:25.240But if you choose to go, then certain duties do generally attach.
01:17:30.820And if you say, I've got it, and you run into the water, and then you get close and you're like, just kidding, and you watch him drown, and others didn't go because you went, now this is like something that would appear on the bar exam.
01:17:44.940You know, can the Good Samaritan in these circumstances be held liable for effectively
01:27:27.100I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM.
01:27:30.560It's called the Megyn Kelly Channel, and it is where you will hear the truth, unfiltered, with no agenda, and no apologies.
01:27:36.700Along with the Megyn Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Jashinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more.
01:27:46.080It's bold, no BS news, only on the Megyn Kelly Channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.
01:27:57.100Dave Ehrenberg and Viva Frye are back with me. Guys, this is a bizarre case involving a former
01:28:04.480player for the Atlanta Falcons, a reality TV star who starred on The Real Housewives of Atlanta,
01:28:11.340in addition to another program that was her own Bravo spinoff, Don't Be Tardy,
01:28:16.460Kim Zolciak, and their 15-year-old son, who is now in some serious trouble.
01:28:23.240Um, he is being accused of sexually assaulting a girl, his age, I think a year younger than he is 14 at a gym. Here's Kim and there's the son in the background. And she's, she's getting a divorce from her former Atlanta Falcons player husband, whose name is Croy Bierman, the young, the child who she's made public.
01:28:47.780and his name is publicly associated with this is Croy K.J. Bierman Jr. So he, here's the first
01:28:56.760incident. Okay. It's come out that there, that there was a first incident involving this K.J.
01:29:03.220He was charged in a juvenile sexual battery matter involving another young person. His lawyer has
01:29:11.040said, hold your horses here. That was basically two kids being morons on camera. And that is1.00
01:29:18.120nowhere near the terrible incident that now the lawyer for the new girl is making it out to be,
01:29:24.880or the prosecutors handling the new girl's allegation are making it out to be. But I'm
01:29:28.660getting ahead of myself. That's just a little bit of background. April, 2026 is what we're
01:29:35.860dealing with now. So page six reports that the alleged victim describes herself as the best
01:29:43.300friend of KJ's girlfriend. So the defendant in this case is 15 and his girlfriend has a friend
01:29:49.020who is the alleged victim in this case. Per Us Weekly, which got the police report,
01:29:56.460prosecutors allege that KJ, then 15, sexually assaulted a teenage girl who was 14 in a changing
01:30:02.740area at Lifetime Fitness in Alpharetta, Georgia. The victim reportedly had a regular chiropractic
01:30:09.020appointment at the gym. Though he wasn't in the office that day, she opted to work out. Later,
01:30:13.720while eating in the gym's cafe, she saw a friend later identified as KJ, 15, enter the facility.
01:30:18.900She called out to him. They began talking, at which point KJ allegedly asked if she wanted to go
01:30:23.660into the co-ed sauna with him, per the police report. The victim told police that she and KJ
01:30:29.540had been friends for some time. In high school, she also described him as a flirty and joking
01:30:35.180person. According to this 14-year-old at the time, a young woman, KJ was making jokes and flirting
01:30:42.180with her as they walked to the family locker room. So clearly she agreed to go into the co-ed sauna
01:30:47.300with him. Once they arrived in the room, KJ allegedly asked the victim to kiss him multiple0.97
01:30:53.460times. Quote, he grabbed her by the waist and started kissing her neck and grabbing her butt1.00
01:30:57.960with his hand and an open hand and kissed her lips, read the report, claiming KJ also touched0.94
01:31:03.000her private area on the outside of her pants and she, quote, froze. The young woman stated she told
01:31:08.160KJ no multiple times and that he said something to the effect that she was lucky he wasn't making
01:31:12.940her do it. He then allegedly pulled down his pants to expose himself and put his unit into the
01:31:19.740victim's mouth. The victim claimed that KJ tried multiple times to have sexual intercourse with her0.99
01:31:53.480According to officers, KJ and the victim were both seen on surveillance video going into the family dressing room.
01:31:59.140About 20 minutes later, the victim exited the dressing room and headed toward the lobby while KJ made his way to the sauna alone.
01:32:06.600Test results concluded there was no presence of male or human DNA in the victim's private area and mouth that did not belong to her.
01:32:14.540Now, he's been arrested on aggravated sodomy and aggravated sexual battery charges and is being held in the Metro Regional Youth Detention Center, but is being, this is being prosecuted in adult court, even though he's only 15.
01:32:37.300The defense is trying to get this treated as a juvenile case because if it's not, this kid faces a mandatory minimum of 25 years, no parole, no probation.
01:32:48.480His lawyer says it's difficult to comprehend that a 14- or 15-year-old child can be held in detention for a month or longer simply waiting for a bond hearing.
01:32:56.820They did get a bond hearing eventually, and it was set at $200,000, which is no joke.
01:38:16.840And there's also some predatory, I would say derogatory, so I would characterize it as language used by the defendant towards the victim who knows the video.
01:38:25.220So in case you missed it, she said the videos found in the defendant, the 15-year-old's hidden files on his cell phone included, quote, penetrative sex with a juvenile family member, suggesting there's incest on there.
01:38:41.980But his lawyer spoke, Jason Sheffield, spoke with Page Six after the hearing and said,
01:38:48.200characterizations made in court regarding the prior juvenile matter involving K.J.
01:38:52.400Beerman grossly misrepresent both the facts and the ultimate resolution of that case.
01:38:56.920He insisted, quote, that matter arose from inappropriate, crude behavior involving two
01:39:04.000It did not result in an adjudication for statutory rape, sexual intercourse, or any comparable offense.
01:39:13.320I mean, Dave, I wouldn't expect him to have even remained in the household if he were molesting like a family member.
01:39:23.460So I'm not sure what to make of that prior incident.
01:39:26.140And I'm not sure what to make of the current one either, because the defense lawyer has come out and suggested that this alleged victim has made other false allegations.
01:39:40.700Listen here to his lawyer, Jason Sheffield, in court on September 11th.
01:39:44.800As for a statement on prior false allegations, I have evidence.
01:39:52.560I have witnesses, and I believe under our current case law, that is admissible evidence.
01:39:57.540It's no longer subjected to the reasonable probability of falsity standard.
01:40:04.740And because the report that was issued had so much to do with the credibility of the alleged victim,
01:40:12.380and it had extensive information about the way that she described these offenses,
01:40:17.420I thought it was reasonably necessary to level the playing field to talk about that particular
01:40:22.900evidence. Dave, like if that's where this goes, that she's got a history of making this stuff up,
01:40:31.120that she was good friends with his girlfriend, that it was more of a Sunday morning regret
01:40:36.560than it was an active sexual assault. That's a decent defense. We've seen that defense work
01:40:42.680in other cases. But how does a jury go about figuring that out? Well, the use of the prior
01:40:50.540alleged act is used to keep him in the adult system and to keep him locked up at home with
01:40:58.180strict bond requirements that he otherwise wouldn't get. And then it's up to the jury
01:41:03.820in this trial. And I think he will be tried as an adult because that's the default where he is.
01:41:10.020And because of this prior case, I think that he's going to be tried as an adult here.
01:41:14.720And then it's going to be up to the judge to determine whether to allow the prior alleged misconduct to come in.
01:41:22.480We don't know the extent of it because it's all in the juvenile system.
01:41:24.800There's all these privacy rules in place.
01:41:27.040So it's not going to just be a pure he said, she said, because I think the state is going to get some of this prior bad acts in.
01:41:36.000And they have something on the cell phones.
01:41:38.980We don't know exactly what it is. We've heard some talk here about this awful stuff in the hidden files.
01:41:44.380But apparently there may be some evidence on the cell phones that talk about what he allegedly did here in this matter, not stuff in the past.
01:41:53.640And then the main issue, though, the main witness is going to be the victim here.
01:41:58.420And if they could put her on trial, if they could shred her credibility, then ultimately the case could fall apart.
01:42:04.160But it's not purely a he said, she said because of the other stuff that we just mentioned.
01:42:11.000I mean, her leaving the facility, Viva, right after it happened, I don't there'll be scrutinization of that.
01:42:19.460Did she look upset? You know what? Did she text him immediately thereafter?
01:42:23.680Like all of her behavior will will come under the microscope.
01:42:25.860but you got to keep an open mind because if she if it's true it's just an allegation that she's
01:42:32.460made prior false allegations it's a complete game changer well these cases are are they're
01:42:38.440ultimately they're grotesque i mean and also they highlight i i would not want to be a young person
01:42:44.000in today's day and age and certainly not a young person in a public school or you know the schooling
01:42:49.340system or in a family situation where they don't not just teach you right from wrong but proper
01:42:54.840behavior that will keep you out of trouble regardless of who turns out to be the liar in
01:42:59.660this case yeah there's there would probably be zero doubt that this kid is learning not the best
01:43:04.980lessons in life and morality from his parents it doesn't mean the look of it now that being said
01:43:11.760if it turns out that what he's got on his phone is what was described you gotta i mean i appreciate
01:43:17.040it'll be derogatory because it's going to be potentially evidence of another crime potentially
01:43:21.460that might have nothing to do with this.
01:43:23.040Something is going wrong in all of this.
01:43:24.900The girl saying that she wants him locked up
01:43:26.600in the interim is also something of a red flag
01:43:28.820because if what he did is what she says she did,
01:43:31.540locking this kid up at 15 for an extended period of time