00:04:28.780Can you give us some background on how first you got involved in this?
00:04:33.320Because when I look at your resume, it looks like you're the lawyer I would call if, God forbid, a son of mine got pulled into a Title IX hearing like these boys did at Cornell University.
00:04:45.820So I've been involved since the university conduct proceeding.
00:04:50.360I became involved shortly after the notice of allegations were sent out.
00:04:54.780So from the very beginning through the university's conduct process, through the investigation, the hearings and the appeals, I was working with the with my client.
00:05:05.620And so I have been involved since the very beginning.
00:05:09.120OK, so you were there alongside of him for the Title IX proceeding that happened on Cornell's campus.
00:05:16.280Correct. OK, amazing, because it wasn't so long ago that you weren't entitled to have a lawyer there with you.
00:05:22.640under the Barack Obama years, the lawyer, you had no right as a defendant to even have your
00:05:27.320counsel present. Isn't that true? Correct. Yeah. I mean, there has been a lot of changes that have
00:05:31.580happened since 2011 when the dear colleague letter was issued. So we did have a period of
00:05:36.660time where attorneys were able to attend and cross-examine witnesses. There was a change in
00:05:42.760the administration and correspondingly the regulations, as you mentioned. And at that
00:05:48.040point, those rights were taken away for a period of time. Fortunately, not too long before they
00:05:53.300were reinstated. So now we are back to the position of being able to attend, being able to
00:06:00.880cross-examine witnesses. And in fact, the parties involved are not able to cross-examine parties
00:06:07.280themselves. They are required to have advisors. They don't have to be legal advisors, but they
00:06:12.140have to have advisors conduct the cross-examination. It's an incredible, I mean, and very valuable
00:06:18.120restoration. I have to say, God bless President Trump for doing it because it was Arne Duncan
00:06:21.940under Barack Obama who wrote that dear colleague letter that changed due process rights, eliminated
00:06:27.120them for anyone accused on college campuses nationwide. You're talking about a boy's entire
00:06:32.040future, his college education, being labeled a sex offender for the rest of his life. And they
00:06:38.780were told by Barack Obama's administration, you can't have a lawyer in there. You can't
00:06:42.720cross-examine. You have very limited rights to discovery. It was very, very wrong. Trump
00:06:47.760reversed it. And here we are now with your client and others being accused by Jane Doe.
00:06:54.300Can I ask you, first of all, I have a real problem personally with the fact that she's
00:07:00.140maintaining her anonymity and she's named all seven of these young men explicitly. Their names
00:07:06.660are in every newspaper in the country right now.
00:07:34.260But I think that the courts are likely to allow her to remain that status because of, again, the nature of the allegations and that courts typically do allow parties to proceed as a doe.
00:07:45.980On the other side, you know, oftentimes we talk about is it appropriate to name the defendants, right?
00:07:52.060I mean, if we're bringing a lawsuit on the plaintiff's side, which we often do, do we name the other parties?
00:07:56.540And at this point, there have been some discussions about do we move to keep that pseudonym status or try to remove it?
00:08:05.080And from our perspective, it doesn't matter at this point.
00:08:08.740I mean, the cat's out of the bag. Like you said, their names are everywhere.
00:08:11.880So even if we were able to get them changed to John Doe's one through seven, everyone already knows their names and faces.
00:08:19.380Yep. Yep. We we tried not to say them yesterday, but I mean, having you on, we're going to say them.
00:08:25.740And I'm giving serious thought to saying her name, too, once I've confirmed it, because the members of the media can do what they think is ethical.
00:08:32.980And we have had many examples in the past, including of The New York Times, naming an accuser if they think the circumstances warrant it.
00:08:41.360And I think we're there on this case personally, but continue to review.
00:08:46.300So can you walk us through a little bit of the timeline?
00:08:48.540When did Giglio first find out that what he thought, because he was one of the, he's one of the young men accused of actually having a sexual encounter with her.
00:08:58.200There were four out of the seven who allegedly did.
00:09:02.400And my understanding is all of these boys thought it was consensual.
00:09:05.760I mean, it was raunchy and it was a night of debauchery, if you will, involving ketamine, et cetera.
00:09:10.840But the text messages after the fact and her initial statements appear to confirm that all involved believed this was consensual, racy, but consensual in on the night it happened and the days thereafter.
00:09:25.560So how did he first get wind that she was changing her tune?
00:09:29.600Yeah. So, I mean, I can't speak to the other defendants, certainly.
00:09:32.460I don't think and I don't know exactly the timeline for him.
00:09:37.120I can say that he did not have any indication that this was going to become something more serious than than just a kind of a crazy night until he heard that there was a report that had been made.
00:09:49.340And there was a report that was filed, as you know, with the Cornell police.
00:09:53.240But there was also a campus wide report that was made to all of Cornell.
00:09:57.880So at that point, people started to recognize that this was going to become a more serious matter and it likely was going to be investigated.
00:10:06.780The Title IX notice did not come out till January.
00:10:10.140But by that point, because of the campus crime alert, they had an understanding that that there was likely going to be an investigation.
00:10:18.120And the event, we should remind people, happened in October is October 19th, overnight into the 20th.
00:10:24.020So it made news campus wide in January, but it had been it had occurred a couple of months prior.
00:10:31.980So today, The New York Times has reports that it has gotten its hands on the Title IX documents on the the filings around that issue, including it looks like hearing transcripts.
00:10:46.520First of all, are you surprised that that they have that?
00:10:49.540I am. I don't know where that came from.
00:10:51.600I mean, certainly there are a lot of people involved.
00:10:54.300There's a lot of parties involved in the lawsuit, but also a lot of people that are aware of what's happening.
00:10:59.400So, you know, I suppose it's not surprising that someone leaked them.
00:11:03.020I don't know who and I haven't seen them, so I'm not sure exactly which documents they are.
00:11:08.540Yeah. And same. I mean, I'm only going off of what they what they printed.
00:11:13.340But they they have a lot in here that confirms, frankly, what I was theorizing about yesterday.
00:11:21.600which is that Jane Doe very clearly initially did not think she had been raped at all and that it
00:11:29.900looks like from the documents they're reporting on, it was her roommate who tried to convince her
00:11:35.520that she had been raped as opposed to Jane Doe coming up with this on her own, a notion she'd
00:11:41.340been toying with. And then there was a crucial denial by the Chi-Fi chapter president
00:11:50.060to allowing Jane Doe to go to a Halloween party.
00:11:54.200And that's when she got really mad0.99
00:11:55.980from what I read in the New York Times.
00:12:38.380Yes, what what the Times is reporting was that is that in the days thereafter, first
00:12:44.780of all, that the roommate the roommate says one roommate told investigators Jane Doe did
00:12:48.820not use the word rape or assault when they were first talking about it the day after.
00:12:53.240It seemed like she was in shock, her other roommate leader told investigators, quote,
00:12:56.620not really understanding the gravity of what she was saying.
00:13:00.580She went to her big sister, Jane Doe, did at the Tridel house and told the sister, there0.99
00:13:06.800are roommates circulating, this is the next day, October 21st, that she was a slut.0.94
00:13:13.340The big sister, who's a junior at Cornell at the time, told investigators, Jane Doe0.97
00:13:16.700added with a laugh. Unfortunately, they're true, these rumors. The big sister brought up her own
00:13:24.020passing. I could tell that she had not yet processed what happened. And then she had her
00:13:30.740text, Jane Doe had a text exchange with another one of the defendants known as defendant number
00:13:34.860two. Again, we're saying the names now. This one's named Jonathan Newell. And she reassured him in
00:13:40.500this text where he said, I want to apologize for how things went down. That quote, in her words,
00:13:45.020at the end of the day, none of the sexual stuff was illegal. And honestly, I really liked being
00:13:51.420with you and Matt, she wrote explicitly. Then she would get angrier because by October 23rd,
00:13:59.940which was, looks like two days later, she texted bro, everyone knows. And I think this is to
00:14:07.700Matt, the guy she was meeting initially when she showed up at the house.
00:14:11.300She said the episode was ruining my life temporarily, that her reputation had been destroyed, said all she could do was sleep and cry all day.
00:14:20.360Matthew Ingalls assured her it would all blow over soon, noting how fast nonsense spreads at this school and that she did not have anything to be ashamed of.
00:14:27.960You're right, said Jane Doe. It'll get better.
00:14:30.420And then what the New York Times reports is that even though she had more texts, and I'll get into them later when you're not here, I don't want to bore you. You've seen it all. But that ultimately we got to the Halloween party. She was eager to attend. That Mr. Ingalls texted her again saying, we want you here. Chi-Fi is your house. You're welcome here. She wrote, thank you. I really appreciate that. I'll bring my SIGs tomorrow.
00:14:57.560And then she received a phone call from the fraternity president disinviting her.
00:20:04.780Because I understand, you know, the students on Cornell University campus generally knew who the accuser was and who the accused were.
00:20:13.540but this week it's gone viral because she filed her civil lawsuit naming them and now the whole
00:20:20.640country knows so did things change this week oh absolutely in the past week or two absolutely
00:20:25.240i just said not i mean this was something that occurred two years ago you know so people knew
00:20:30.180about it at the time people talked about it there was the rumor mill but after that things had really
00:20:34.540quieted down um and there were some of the students that were not permitted back that were
00:20:39.420expelled. But the past two weeks, things have just really, you know, spread like wildfire. And
00:20:45.760he's had to deal with things that have not been an issue until this case was filed.
00:20:51.920It's very hard to get into Cornell or any Ivy League university. It's harder than ever.
00:20:59.020He's now done four years there, which is also an accomplishment in and of itself.
00:21:03.500Does he worry now about getting a job? I mean, that's the goal when you leave a university,
00:21:09.420Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm sure they all do. I mean, you know, putting aside what's happening on campus, like I said, his name's out there, his picture's out there. And regardless of what happens in the civil suit or with the DA, you know, whether they decide to go forward if there are criminal charges, regardless of what happens with any of that, this information has spread so dramatically across the news, across social media, that it's going to be out there and it's going to live on the Internet.
00:21:39.420you know, forever. So that's certainly, I think, and he hasn't said that to me directly,
00:21:44.340but I have to imagine that all of these dependents are feeling that way.
00:21:48.680We have a lot of moms who watch this show. Can you speak at all to how his parents are handling this?
00:21:54.400Yeah, I think as any of us would, I'm a mom too. I have boys. So, you know, this is certainly
00:22:00.460something that I think about a lot. And I think they're devastated, right? I mean, to go through
00:22:06.320not only the the university process in itself was incredibly emotionally taxing um it was a long
00:22:14.380process there was uh you know a lot involved in that and then getting to the point where you get
00:22:19.720a sanction and then serving that sanction and feeling as though it's over only to be faced with
00:22:25.120this now and to have this kind of attention and focus on on your son on your family it's it's
00:22:31.200it's awful it's awful what they're dealing with and i they're concerned for him understandable
00:22:36.280Yeah. Oh my gosh. I'm sure. I'm sure they're all, all the families must be devastated right now. I'll ask you about what she alleges. You can tell me whatever you can. She alleges in her civil case that Matt Ingalls was the one we referred to as man number one. That's the one she showed up at the Chi-Fi house to see. They danced together. He said, can we have a threesome with somebody? And she alleged to police that she said yes.
00:23:31.760grabbed plaintiff away from defendant Newell and began kissing her while defendant Newell1.00
00:23:36.780groped her from behind, specifically reaching for her vagina. Paragraph 161 defendant Lopes0.99
00:23:42.040and Newell then placed plaintiff on a bed and the two men began having sex with plaintiff0.83
00:23:46.200initiating another assault. This is her lawyer's language and her civil complaint
00:23:50.640all without plaintiff's consent. So that's, I mean, there's a few more allegations,
00:23:55.500but that's the crux of it. Does he deny those allegations?
00:23:59.240Yes, that's just not factual. It's not what was presented in the hearing through any of the testimony through the evidence. It's just not factual and it's just mischaracterized. And I mean, one thing I'll say is that the amount of information included in the complaint, which is, I think, 101 pages, is very limited.
00:24:19.700And this was a proceeding that took place for months that resulted in an investigative record about 1,500 pages long that included 50 witness interviews and 12 and a half days of a hearing.
00:24:34.940So there's just much, much more background and context and detail than what's being presented in this complaint.
00:24:44.720And your client is male number three in the allegations, just to be clear, yes?
00:26:02.180You're probably not looking at an expulsion.
00:26:04.460But here the relevance is to the question of capacity.
00:26:07.580So, you know, in looking at the allegations of sexual assault,
00:26:11.180the question is whether she was incapacitated such that she could not consent because of her
00:26:17.620consumption of different substances that night.
00:26:21.280And that was something that we've now heard from the DA for Ithaca and the county there,
00:26:28.020that he felt he could not prove in a court of law that she was incapacitated based on her own
00:26:34.440six-page, single-spaced typed statement that have, according to him, 20 of her handwritten notes.
00:26:42.380So she edited it, she added to it, and then she signed it under penalties of perjury.
00:26:47.180And he believed that that statement, which we haven't seen, what made clear that throughout
00:26:52.960that night, there was not an issue of her capacity, that while she was increasingly intoxicated,
00:26:59.280It was always her own choice at her own hand and that she never reached the point of full physical incapacitation, meaning unconsciousness or inability to speak or interact.
00:27:13.580I mean, again, it's a bit hard for me to speak to.
00:27:15.900I know that when my client was involved earlier in the evening at the earlier end of these events, she was not incapacitated as far as we saw through all the testimony, her own testimony included, as well as the evidence.
00:27:29.980So how long did the whole thing go on?
00:27:51.320Because her roommate, according to this New York Times report on the Title IX proceeding, says she didn't get back home until 11 a.m. that morning.
00:27:57.720But she, do you know, is that when she left the Ki-Fi house?
00:28:02.280Because she said she fell asleep for a time.
00:28:03.840Yeah, she may have fallen asleep for some time after the last sexual encounter that0.93
00:30:25.580There is a remarkable report in UnHerd today, the reporting by our friend, Sarabha Mari,
00:30:31.720who spoke with the lawyer representing this other defendant, Scott Ketchmark.
00:30:38.580And that lawyer tells UnHerd that during the proceeding, at least during Scott's portion,
00:30:45.320I don't know what your experience was, the chief investigator for the Title IX team
00:30:49.740was in her car. She was driving for 45 minutes of it. And that at another point, he could see
00:30:57.240from her glasses that she was surfing online, like barely paying attention to evidence that
00:31:03.880his lawyer said was actually exculpatory for Scott. What was your experience and Jillio's?
00:31:11.980I do recall that. I think everyone made note of that. I mean, this was a long proceeding. Like I
00:31:16.900said it was 12 and a half days of testimony but there was one point probably about halfway through
00:31:22.500where it wasn't the hearing chair it was one of the other panelists where everyone noticed that
00:31:27.580she was in a car she had the seat belt on and you could kind of see movement from driving in in her
00:31:32.780glasses so i mean do you think they were taking this seriously at you know these so-called
00:31:39.440investigators and those who are going to be determining these boys fate i think they were
00:31:43.860taking it seriously i don't know that they were perhaps or at least this particular individual
00:31:49.320was paying attention as much as she should have been throughout the entire thing um but i do think
00:31:54.420they were taking it seriously and in terms of recognizing how how serious the allegations were
00:31:59.780um but that was one of the the concerns that we had with with the process i mean you know from
00:32:06.000our perspective there were a number of things cornell did in terms of their uh handling of
00:32:10.880the case, which I don't think were perfect, but that was one thing I know that a lot of the
00:32:14.920advisors picked up on. Yeah, you would definitely want them to be paying attention when you're
00:32:20.020presenting your exculpatory evidence. So now we're seeing text messages between Jane Doe and
00:32:29.600a number, actually, of the boys after the fact. Definitely with Matt, also with defendant number
00:32:37.480two, and maybe some others. Some of it, the reporting is confusing because they don't
00:32:42.920reveal the names in each instance or they block them out. But is that your understanding that in
00:32:48.600the days after this happened, all of the text messaging from Jane Doe reflected a woman who
00:32:55.460believed that the experience had been consensual? There were some that indicated that, yes. I think
00:33:02.760the ones more close in time to when the events happened, I think that did shift as more time
00:33:08.480passed. But the initial ones, there was certainly some indication of that.
00:33:13.660And as somebody yesterday had emerged, and we spent some time on this on the show,
00:33:17.300that the six page statement to which she swore under penalties of perjury did not use the word
00:33:22.880rape, except in a hypothetical context, like, geez, if I had fallen asleep and they had sex0.97
00:33:27.540with me, that would have been rape. But she did not actually accuse them of rape in that statement.0.89
00:33:32.160Is that true? I have to check that. That sounds correct. I think, you know, it's important to
00:33:38.640keep in mind, though, from the university's perspective that that's not how they define
00:33:42.920a violation of policy. Right. So from their perspective, it's a question of whether it
00:33:48.200was consensual or not. So it could have been that she had that in mind when she was drafting
00:33:54.340the statement. But I don't I'd have to double check if she used that word.
00:33:58.500did the university find the young men responsible for rape so they wouldn't find them responsible
00:34:07.020for rape because that's not necessarily the the the terminology used it would have been
00:34:11.860sexual assault that they would classify it as was anyone found lie or responsible for sexual assault
00:34:18.400expelled uh i i don't know for certain because i don't know every sanction that was imposed
00:34:23.680for all seven of them. Okay. But some were found responsible for sexual assault in the eyes of the
00:34:30.540university. Why do you think the DA is reopening this case and now going to submit it to a grand
00:34:38.680jury? I mean, to me, it seems like pressure to do so. I mean, people are outraged, understandably.
00:34:45.860I mean, if they're hearing the way that she's presenting the case, of course, people are going
00:34:49.640to be horrified and outraged at what's being said. So I think it is just that pressure to
00:34:55.000take another look at it. And if they didn't do any real investigation at the time, you know,
00:35:01.760perhaps they feel that that now is the time to do it to make sure that they reach the right
00:35:05.720decision initially. What do you think people out there need to know about this case that they don't
00:35:12.040know? I think they need to understand that there's a lot more to what happened. And again, I'm not
00:35:19.100speaking for every defendant. I'm not saying there was no wrongdoing, you know, or things that
00:35:25.160happened that maybe shouldn't have, but there's a lot more that needs to be considered. And this
00:35:31.440is all going to come out through the case, right? I mean, we're in the early phases of the complaint
00:35:35.600just having been filed. There's going to be discovery and depositions and a lot more information
00:35:41.220is going to come out. So I would just, you know, encourage people to be perhaps a bit more open
00:35:46.540minded and not immediately jump to conclusions about about who did what and who's guilty or not.
00:35:53.760Are there are you thinking of documents that you've seen that are going to come out or do you
00:35:59.240think it's testimony that you're going to elicit? Both, but probably primarily the testimony,
00:36:03.800because that makes up the majority of the investigative record.
00:36:09.500There is an allegation that The New York Times is repeating today from the Title IX proceeding
00:36:15.620that this Jane Doe told at least a roommate that she had been sexually assaulted before.
00:36:23.660This is not her first accusation of sexual assault. Is that news to you?
00:36:29.340I don't want to comment on that one. You know, I want to respect the privacy on her past history.
00:36:34.460Okay, sure. And can you confirm, you know, I'm not going to ask you to name the Jane Doe, but is it your understanding that she is from the South, from Alabama?
00:36:49.820I recall she's from somewhere far from New York. I honestly don't recall exactly where it was.
00:36:56.540But I'm pretty sure she said something about living a few thousand miles away. So I know it wasn't in the tribe.
00:37:02.460Yeah, a thousand. A thousand. Yep. And your understanding is, even though she's not from New York State, that she filed, you think, she filed the New York State Supreme because you think that's the place that would be most friendly to allowing her to proceed anonymously? Or do you think it could go beyond that as somebody who practices this kind of law?
00:45:00.440But that doesn't mean that that's what happened here.
00:45:02.380And do you think that the likes of Chuck Schumer and some Democrats may use this to try to restore the Title IX provisions for due process on college campus that were in place under Barack Obama?
00:45:17.340I don't know. I mean, I think the process that is in place, it does work, not 100% of the time,
00:45:24.460but like I said, I've been to a lot of these hearings, and when the processes are implemented
00:45:29.460and followed, they do reach correct outcomes. I assume you do not want to see a restoration of
00:45:36.160the Barack Obama era of Title IX enforcement? Preferably not.
00:45:41.960Yeah, I mean, I can I can speak to it myself.
00:50:33.300Wow, this is turning into, I mean, full Salem witch trial. These guys are being lynched in the media before we've heard anything. Tara, that guy Jeremy, who I just played, those are the only two who have gone on camera to speak out. So we haven't even heard the defense of most of these guys. And yet, still, you get these women all over social media. You get Slotkin. You get Schumer. There's more to reveal. We'll do it when we come back, along with some other news.
00:51:02.380It's no wonder so many people are scared of AI because it is changing everything,
00:51:06.620including how criminals steal. They're targeting something most Americans do not even realize is
00:51:11.400vulnerable, the thousands of bucks in equity in your home. A scammer can use AI to craft the
00:51:17.340perfect document that they file with the county, transferring your home into their name, and then
00:51:22.400use your ownership to take out loans or sell it for quick cash. This is evil. It's called title
00:51:28.120fraud and it is happening all over America. That is why there's home title lock and their million
00:51:34.280dollar triple lock protection. These guys will monitor your property records 24 seven, alert you
00:51:40.320of any changes to your title and give the triple lock difference. If you become a victim, home title
00:51:45.860locks expert restoration is backed up by up to 1 million bucks to fix the fraud and restore your
00:51:52.460title. For cybersecurity awareness month, home title lock is offering a free title history report
00:51:57.880plus an extended 30-day trial so you can see what it's all about risk-free.
00:52:03.180Just use the promo code MEGAN30 at HomeTitleLock.com to find out today if you're already a victim.
00:52:10.100The AI threat is real. Do not let scammers have the upper hand.
00:52:14.500That's HomeTitleLock.com, promo code MEGAN30 to get peace of mind today.
00:52:19.800I'm Megan Kelly. Every day on The Megan Kelly Show, we bring you the news,
00:52:23.740and this summer, we're bringing you something extra.
00:52:26.480Before I was a journalist, I was a lawyer.
00:52:28.920I've spent 20 plus years now covering crime and the law.
00:52:32.500So I built a true crime series that I always wanted to listen to.
00:57:34.520I'm just really open-minded. Sex and sexuality is going to become more common like this,
00:57:42.240meaning threesomes, obviously. This is devastating. Okay, now that was 1023.
00:57:49.080Now, as I pointed out to you in the New York Times piece today that has the Title IX
00:57:57.040hearing information in it, there is a reveal about what happened around this Halloween party
00:58:05.860that was just devastating for Ki-Fi. Okay. Yeah. By the way, the New York Times confirms that that
00:58:11.020October 23rd text is with man number one. His name is Matthew Ingalls. I guess we're going to
00:58:19.000out them all. The New York Times has named him. And they also confirm, she wrote, bro, everyone
00:58:26.120knows. This episode is ruining my life temporarily. My reputation has been destroyed. And then they
00:58:31.140add that she wrote all she could do was sleep and cry all day. He assured her it would blow over
00:58:35.860soon, noting how fast nonsense spreads at this school, saying she did not have anything to be
00:58:40.920ashamed of. You're right, she responded. It'll get better. Okay, then she had a text with her
00:58:47.000big sister that week. She wrote to the big sister, have you heard the rumor about your little? In
00:58:55.380the meantime, Jane Doe had delivered strict instructions to one of her roommates. If anyone
00:58:58.580asks about this, say it didn't happen. The roommate was plainly concerned. Initially,
00:59:03.660the roommate said, Jane Doe was quote, kind of recounting it as this crazy, this sort of crazy
00:59:08.680thing that she had done. So the roommate's confirming that Jane Doe came back from the house
00:59:12.760and just thought it was a crazy thing she'd done, a crazy night she'd had. And then I told you in
00:59:16.860that one text, she was saying people to her big sister, people are saying, I'm a slut and they're1.00
00:59:22.080right. Ha ha. I've got to tell you something. Okay. I told you yesterday that I was in Tridel1.00
00:59:28.080and you know, there's a, there's, I loved Tridel for the year that I was in it. And I deactivated
00:59:35.240the next year because as I told you yesterday, I had a boyfriend who was in an athlete there and
00:59:39.520they couldn't, he wasn't allowed at any of the parties. So I'm like, I don't want to go to these
00:59:42.100parties. What am I doing here? Anyway, um, the, the, you've, you've probably heard the saying
00:59:48.040of tridellt is tridellt everyone else has. And I'm not going to lie, there was a reputation
00:59:52.800amongst some that they were kind of easy. Not yours truly, something I've always prided myself
00:59:59.120on. Not easy. Really, not easy in any way. But anyway, there was a reputation in that the saying
01:00:06.800was tridellt everyone else has. This girl seems to be leaning in saying, I just, you know, very
01:00:14.420open-minded and sex and sexuality, it's all changing. And you know, like she's kind of cool
01:00:18.560with all this. And then says to the, to the big sis, allegedly that there are rumors circulating
01:00:26.360that I'm a slut. And then says with a laugh quote, unfortunately they're true. Now that was two days0.99
01:00:32.160after the alleged rape, the alleged gang rape. Now she, she's saying to her, people are calling
01:00:37.740me a slut and they're right. Okay. So this is like, this is the, these are the initial texts1.00
01:00:45.020that same day, October 21st, she received a text message from defendant number two. His name is
01:00:51.420Jonathan Newell. This is the one who tweeted out or Snapchat, Snapchat it out. So it's spelled
01:01:04.060differently, Jonathan Newell, in the Snapchat free P word in the alumni PU. I don't know what
01:01:09.800that stands for. It was an alumni room. So defendant number two, you know, we had some
01:01:14.120harsh words for him yesterday. He's going to have to spend some time reconciling his behavior
01:01:20.100with what I assume his parents taught him is ethical conduct. And she does have a text with
01:01:28.220him. He was engaged in at least two of these threesomes, Jonathan Newell, allegedly. And
01:01:34.260she has a text message with him on October 21st. That reads, this is according to the New York
01:01:45.940Times' report of the Title IX proceedings. She got a text message from him, one of the men she
01:01:52.820would go on to accuse of sexual assault. Quote, I just wanted to apologize for how things went
01:01:56.780down the other night. He then said that both he and Matthew Ingalls, defendant number one,
01:02:01.080another of the men she would lead or accuse of assault, both felt terrible for being too under
01:02:04.660the influence of drugs and alcohol to, quote, shut it down and kick people out before it got
01:02:08.760way out of hand. Jane Doe replied and assured him, quote, at the end of the day, none of the
01:02:14.360sexual stuff was illegal. And honestly, I really liked being with you and Matt, end quote.
01:02:20.580I mean I'm pretty sure that the parents of Matthew Ingalls and Jonathan Newell are probably very
01:02:30.060outraged even though their son wrote that ridiculous snapchat and probably is the one
01:02:36.300who got this whole thing reopened he's got it in writing from this woman that she enjoyed0.98
01:02:41.800her sex with him and that initial threesome that she enjoyed it and that none of it was
01:02:48.740illegal in her viewpoint. Again, that's not determinative, but it's not helpful to a
01:02:53.540prosecution. Then things started to change a bit. Well, actually, before we get to that, okay.
01:03:02.060Then she had the, then she had an exchange on October 25th. Defendant number one, Matthew
01:03:07.220Ingalls, texted her, you good? She replied that defendant number two, Mr. Newell, had, quote,
01:03:13.540definitely told people. Days later, she sent Matthew Ingalls an image of the forum post
01:03:20.400that she had found. She said while she was randomly surfing, suggesting there'd been a
01:03:25.900gang rape at Ki-Fi, and she sent it to Matthew with three question marks. And he responded,
01:03:32.220ridiculous. I'm going to report that. Ridiculous. I'm going to report that.0.99
01:03:37.320So there we are in late October with these exchanges, and there's nothing about a rape.0.95
01:03:43.100There's only her calling herself a slut and saying attitudes about sex are changing and calling, I believe, defendant number one, Matthew, I believe, that's not on this statement, I'm assuming, a king, saying, love you, king.0.89
01:04:00.460Then comes, according to the New York Times, the Halloween party.0.95
01:04:06.940As Halloween approached, Jane Doe's roommates told investigators her understanding of what
01:04:30.220The roommate recalled her saying, quote, I think she wanted it to be consensual.
01:04:35.200End quote. The roommate told investigators looking back on how Jane Doe was processing the alleged assault. The roommate told investigators that Jane Doe had been sexually assaulted before, which made it particularly hard for her to talk openly about what had happened.
01:04:49.780Quote, I'd have conversations and she would describe a part of what happened and I would tell her that that is what could be classified as rape.
01:04:58.360So here is the roommate admitting that she is the one who introduced the concept of rape0.84
01:05:04.060to Jane Doe. She'd also read online that someone got gang raped at Ki-Fi, but it is the roommate
01:05:11.480telling her, you're not a slut. You were gang raped. And the roommate testified to this,1.00
01:05:19.100that I would tell her this is what could be classified as rape. Okay, but Jane Doe was not
01:05:26.260yet deterred from her desire, I think, to be with defendant one Matthew Ingalls, who
01:05:33.100she thought she was attracted to, who she said she enjoyed her interlude with, who she
01:05:37.160danced with and went to the Chi-Fi house to be with on the night in question.
01:05:41.640The Times reports at Chi-Fi, the fraternity was preparing for a Halloween party and Jane
01:23:09.540I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM.
01:23:13.000It's called the Megyn Kelly Channel, and it is where you will hear the truth, unfiltered, with no agenda, and no apologies.
01:23:19.120Along with the Megyn Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Jashinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more.
01:23:28.460It's bold, no BS news, only on the Megyn Kelly Channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.
01:23:39.540There was a Lindsey Clancy hearing on Tuesday and nothing much happened because it was a status hearing and they did not really take on the issue of the holdout juror and what should happen to him.
01:23:51.020Kevin Reddington is out for that guy's scalp.
01:23:56.760And the nation's jaw collectively dropped when Kevin Reddington suddenly, after a whole trial of admitting, was never in doubt, that his client, Lindsay Clancy, had murdered her three children, suddenly injected new doubt into that question or tried to inject new doubt into that question with the following sound.
01:24:22.360side 11 where is the evidence that she did this the evidence is that she cut her wrists cut her
01:24:31.000throat standing in front of the mirror blood drops then went over to the window and propelled
01:24:36.680herself out of the window your honor heard evidence that she indicated that the screen
01:24:40.780was cut your honor also heard evidence that in fact the screen was not cut
01:24:45.520your honor could infer obviously as a rational jury could infer that in fact this is a false
01:24:50.900memory that she had, because she believes that the screen was cut. And it wasn't.
01:24:55.560But in any event, she propels herself out the window
01:24:58.500and sustains the injuries that Your Honor is well aware that she sustained.
01:25:03.800Your Honor recalls looking at the blood spatter
01:25:06.580evidence and the drops on the floor. Where are the smears
01:25:10.420from a person who has just cut their wrists, cut their throat, is in a
01:25:14.680state of psychosis that throws themselves out a window.
01:25:18.040Where are the smears from that person walking across the blood up to the window?
01:25:43.300Now, after the 11 person jury, minus the holdout, that 11 people on the jury decided that they were ready to vote, not guilty by reason of mental defect or insanity.
01:25:55.420Look at him. He's like, I'm going for the straight all out innocence now.
01:26:00.620OK, a little preview of what trial number two is going to look like.
01:26:04.060He doubled down just in case you think that was a one off here in SOT 12.
01:26:07.600this entire case is based on speculation where is the admission where does she say that she did
01:26:18.480this and what's most chilling is the fact that when she comes out of this obvious coma that she
01:26:28.460is in that when she comes out of it your honor heard the testimony from the psychiatrist and
01:26:34.340from the doctors at Brigham and Women's Hospital.