00:04:48.280They did not sink, but they did have a problem.
00:04:50.980So they left early and they spoke to Nolan Wells, their buddy who traveled over with
00:04:56.000them saying, get on the boat, we're going back.
00:04:58.480And Hudson says Nolan Wells decided to stay behind for a girl.
00:05:04.400You remember we talked about her just a little earlier this week, two days ago, and our reporter from the New York Post, Caitlin, told us that there was one unconfirmed report online by the mother of someone named Katie saying, Katie's my daughter.
00:05:23.120she spoke with nolan wells briefly it was a passing thing she doesn't know what happened
00:05:29.020basically um not not that explicitly about she doesn't know what happened but that it was just
00:05:33.300a sort of fleeting encounter and that was the end of that and um now we're learning more about this
00:05:39.780girl that nolan wells was talking to and indeed her name was katie so hudson and this podcast
00:05:45.580says that nolan wells decided to stay behind for a girl even after his friend yelled at him to get
00:05:51.600on the boat back to the mainland watch the last time i saw nolan was three o'clock and nolan
00:05:58.700was cradling a girl in his arms katie that you know katie and katie nolan was sitting there and
00:06:08.080the last time i saw him i looked at nolan and nolan was like shaking his head laughing and i
00:06:12.420was like dude you crazy i was like just joking with him and uh but anyway nolan that was the
00:06:19.300last time i laid eyes on him but when we were leaving obviously no one is getting left at the
00:06:26.260island that came with us unless they demanded to you know be there and asked you know this is a
00:06:32.860very common thing at horn island when you're out there a lot of people ride out there with someone
00:06:38.700and in with somebody else all the time i've done that a hundred times you know it's a very common
00:06:44.300thing but uh nolan was sitting by the boat with that katie girl and my buddy yelled at you know
00:06:54.660yelled for nolan nolan get it get on the boat we're leaving the boat's about the boat's having
00:07:00.200issues and like no he didn't say that but he was panicking nolan get the f on the boat get on the
00:07:07.200boat and nolan said no i'm staying out here i'm gonna ride in with somebody else and it's not
00:07:12.560uncommon to hear but it's not like my buddy asked him one time my buddy asked Nolan multiple times
00:07:17.860to get on the boat Nolan get on the boat get on the boat we're leaving if you're coming you got
00:07:21.740to come now and Nolan made a decision to stay out on the island and I heard the girl that he was with
00:07:28.580Katie had text somebody yeah that she heard people yelling correct for Nolan to get on
00:07:37.600I have a picture of that. She texted my buddy and the next day everybody was panicking and everybody's texting Katie, you know, because she was obviously seen with Nolan the whole day at the island.
00:07:48.540Katie sent a message to my buddy the next day and said, you know, this is the last time I saw him.
00:07:53.820You know, he's really sweet. But she also mentioned that the last time she saw Nolan was when my buddy was yelling at him to get on the boat.
00:08:04.940And she was right there to see that Nolan decided not to.
00:08:07.600hmm so what happened to him i mean one way or another he wound up dead
00:08:14.980floating in the water and the preliminary medical report doesn't at least they've chosen not to tell
00:08:23.440us what it indicates other than the sheriff saying no signs of foul play now hudson the
00:08:30.980man interviewed there says it was not unusual for people to ride out to the island on one boat and
00:08:35.320get back to the mainland on another boat. You heard of that there. He said Wells had been to
00:08:40.460this island numerous times over the years. As for how Nolan Wells' phone remained on the boat,
00:08:47.760the one that went back to the mainland, Hudson said there were several phones left on his boat
00:08:52.940when he returned to the mainland. Watch. How many people left the phone on the boat? Was it just
00:08:57.960his phone when y'all left or other people have phones on the boat? Absolutely not. There was
00:09:03.160at least well i had to i rode out here on a different boat like i told you and um
00:09:08.580i grabbed my boat i mean i grabbed my phone when i left uh the palm beach to get on the boat with
00:09:15.640triton i mean to get on the boat with white because we were having you know boat issues and
00:09:19.120when i got on the boat there was phones everywhere on the console i mean everywhere like i mean there
00:09:24.940was everybody's phone that was sitting around the boat was on the console like we had phones that
00:09:30.300We didn't even know who's they were, you know, and people just leave their phone,
00:09:34.420especially when people are drinking and, you know, they're not in the right state of mind.
00:09:38.220A lot of people are like, oh, I'll just leave my phone.
00:09:40.080I'll get it later, you know, and that's the way it is around here.
00:09:42.360You know, you don't take your phone and walk around the island.
00:09:44.480You know, there's plenty of phones on the boat and, you know, spread out between the three boats that we had.
00:09:49.480And I mean, we had 20 plus people on the spread between our three boats.
00:09:54.840So, of course, everybody's phone was on the I never saw someone in the water that day
00:09:58.680sitting with their phone in their hand scrolling on anything or even taking pictures in the water
00:10:03.660yeah someone might hop out the boat you know a lot of girls like to take pictures you know in
00:10:08.060the water and so do guys but you know girls want to take pictures in the water half a second you
00:10:13.180might hop out the boat and be like oh i'm snapping this picture of myself or of someone else but as
00:10:18.340soon as i get back in the boat i'm putting my phone up and i'm getting back in the water and
00:10:22.180I'm hanging out with my friends. Hudson also talked about realizing none of the friends
00:10:27.980knew where Nolan was later that evening and how he was the first one to call Nolan's mother
00:10:35.120and alert authorities. And all my friends are just hanging out. And I my buddy, why had addressed,
00:10:43.060you know, you know, talking about Nolan. And I was like, well, where is Nolan? Have you heard
00:10:48.440from him and he was like uh no we haven't and i was like okay well you know it's a little
00:10:55.220concerning like i mean i'm not i'm not freaking out or anything but like i'm trying to find out
00:11:00.660where nolan is so i texted javon and i was like hey and also a couple other buddies that i had
00:11:05.760at the island i was like hey did he have y'all seen nolan did he ride in with y'all and all
00:11:09.100boys were like no well i texted javon and i was like hey can you send me uh miss christine's
00:11:14.280number because I haven't heard from Nolan. And if she hasn't heard from Nolan, then I'm calling the
00:11:19.540Coast Guard. And so eventually Javon sends me her number. I called Ms. Christine, called her the
00:11:28.320first time. She didn't answer. I called her a second time and I got on the phone with her and
00:11:33.480I asked her if she had heard from Nolan. She said, no. And I said, all right, well, don't freak out.
00:11:39.740I'm going to call the Coast Guard, and this was at about 11 o'clock.
00:11:45.900So, what's your intent in calling the Coast Guard, right?
00:11:47.920Because right now, Nolan could be with a chick.
00:12:03.720Well, I mean, like I said, my friends and I have been on the water a whole life.
00:12:08.820stuff happens people die all the time i know people that have died out there
00:12:13.460and you know it's a fun place to be but it's also a very very dangerous place to be if you're not
00:12:18.100handling it right i mean i would rather call the coast guard a hundred times and lose my mind over
00:12:22.240it my buddy be okay then you know not and you know me not know where he is and him not be okay
00:12:27.260hudson said he went out to the island the next day to help with the search
00:12:32.800and that he was heartbroken when he learned that nolan wells's body had been found
00:12:37.720On Wednesday, Benjamin Crump delivered the results of an independent autopsy the Crump team ordered up, delivered that to media and a large crowd during the NAACP National Convention in Chicago.
00:12:52.400In it, their independent medical examiner concludes that he could not determine the manner or cause of death.
00:12:58.720The report states that one of the reasons is because Wells', forgive me, throat was missing, but it goes on to state, quote, the retention of the anterior neck structures during an initial autopsy is a common forensic pathology practice.
00:13:16.720In other words, this was done by the state's medical examiner pursuant to common forensic
00:13:41.900She said it will be withheld until the grand jury review, which is typical in the state.
00:13:46.440The jury will then, grand jury, determine whether a crime has been committed, and if
00:13:52.080so, whether there is enough evidence to indict someone.
00:13:56.540She said, quote, the pressure for answers does not change what the work requires, but
00:14:01.180the absence of the official autopsy report, no press conferences by law enforcement, and
00:14:06.220the involvement of Benjamin Crump and Al Sharpton has allowed this case to explode with misinformation.
00:14:11.620information. The latest example is an interview with U.S. Congressman Jonathan Jackson by TMZ.
00:14:17.980Mr. Jackson represents Illinois's first congressional district. He is the son of
00:14:21.700the late Jesse Jackson. Jackson Jr. appearing to have zero understanding of this case before
00:14:28.340he shot off his mouth. It's Nolan Wells case. It's taking a lot of different twists and turns.
00:14:33.260I wanted to get your thoughts on it. What do you think about it thus far?
00:14:36.580Well, the phone has been erased and the parents have had to ping it. There's been no clear
00:14:41.100investigation i think it um it reeks of a cover-up there is a pattern of deception and denial and
00:14:48.000cover-up you think there's a cover-up so who are you pointing the finger at well i first start with
00:14:53.400the uh legal authorities they should do a thorough investigation that the um phone was uh separated
00:14:59.660from the child he was uh body was returned to an alternate location um that the messages have been
00:15:06.460erased, that the family had to independently retrieve the phone. These are all things that
00:15:11.320the sheriff should have done. OK, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Did you hear him there
00:15:17.640say the phone has been erased? That's not true. The facts are that Nolan Wells's parents said
00:15:23.120they found it concerning and they're suspicious that they say Wells's Snapchat contained no photos,
00:15:31.140videos or messages from July 4th. And while that may sound unusual in today's day and age,
00:15:35.680as you heard Warren Hudson say just a moment ago, usually when they go out on the island,
00:15:40.620they leave their phones on the boat while they're in the ocean and walking around in the island.
00:15:46.800Have you ever done such a thing? I have. You don't take your phone in there. You don't want
00:15:52.400it to get wet in the ocean. It's like one of the last few places on earth that we don't take our
00:15:57.320cell phones. It's just ridiculous. So the parents found it suspicious that there were no July 4th
00:16:05.520videos or photos on his phone. The phone had not been wiped. You have no idea whether that's the
00:16:10.700case, sir. How dare you say that in a position of authority as a U.S. congressman? Watch it.
00:16:16.440Watch it. This case doesn't need more misinformation getting dumped because,
00:16:22.660as I just pointed out, the families are getting death threats now.
00:16:26.340Now, all these boys who are Nolan's best friends are getting threatened for nothing
00:16:31.180because the fact that they were white and friends with him, it's outrageous.
00:16:36.840Crump also said that his team and Jackson County investigators are going to conduct a mutual
00:16:41.860inspection of Nolan's phone, so we'll see where that leads. But as of right now,
00:16:45.940it has not been established, not anywhere close, that the phone has been erased.
00:16:50.460Mr. Jackson, they're also saying the parents had to ping it and independently retrieve the phone.
00:16:56.740Well, that may be true, but the parents pinged the phone and retrieved it after being alerted that Nolan was missing by Hudson, as you heard there when he's called Miss Christine.
00:17:07.600They weren't trying to cover up the fact that they didn't they couldn't find Nolan, that they were the ones who called the parents attention to the fact that they couldn't find Nolan.
00:17:17.820The Coast Guard confirmed to the local CBS outlet in Biloxi that they were first contacted by a
00:17:23.760friend of Wells. They didn't give a name to the outlet, but you heard Hudson there saying he
00:17:28.360called the Coast Guard. And finally, the congressman said, quote, the body was returned
00:17:32.740to an alternate location. I don't actually have any idea what the F he's talking about.
00:17:39.220Early on in this case, Benjamin Crump shared a photo of Nolan Wells alive and well at a nighttime
00:17:45.260pool party and claimed that it showed Wells with friends on the mainland the evening of July 4th,
00:17:52.160the very night that he went missing. So July 4th, nighttime. But the photo was actually taken
00:17:58.460a week prior to that, in late June. And Rolling Stone, which got the photo from one of these kids,
00:18:04.500actually confirmed that using metadata from the image. So I don't, what does he mean the body was
00:18:10.620I have no idea what he's saying. Nolan was left behind on the island. He was not seen again.
00:18:17.100As far as we know, we haven't found a person who saw him, other than what you heard Hudson say
00:18:22.200about Katie, until he was found dead Monday morning. Then to end his interview, Congressman
00:18:30.880Jackson brought up, everyone, wait for it, because we've heard it every day on this show from people
00:18:38.820who are trying to inject race into situations, unfairly, unfoundedly. Emmett Till.
00:18:46.540Well, if you talk about five or seven young white guys and one African-American child,
00:18:51.840they're out swimming. He ends up dead and seems to have been a bit of a scuffle or some altercation.
00:18:57.980I'm not quite sure. And then everyone leaves their one friend behind who just happens to be black.
00:19:03.940Well, this is also, as we speak today, the anniversary, the date of Emmett Till's birth.
00:19:10.400And so I come from Chicago, and that was a Mississippi case, so history is repeating itself again.
00:19:16.180There's a melody that comes from injustice, that the people that killed Emmett Till, they knew who did it, and they never were prosecuted.
00:19:24.940The young people that were around Mr. Wells, they know something, and they've never been thoroughly interrogated.
00:19:31.260I want the young people to say what they know.
00:19:59.360that this is so irresponsible they've never been thoroughly interrogated the police said that they
00:20:05.940have been cooperating from the start as you heard there he Hudson is the one who brought authorities
00:20:11.720into this in the search for Nolan earlier you heard him say there's been a pattern of deception
00:20:16.380and denial no there hasn't by whom that not not a single alleged deception or denial has been
00:20:24.040identified or named, not one, not by Nolan's friends. And they're literally, it's just their
00:20:30.120race. It's the fact that they're white boys and their, their black friend is missing. That is so
00:20:34.940unfair. What is this? Like, is he trying to disincentivize young white men from having
00:20:41.640a black friend because God forbid something happens to him? They're going to get blamed
00:20:45.840because of skin color. That is so outrageous. These, we are past that you moron. We are,
00:20:52.600thank god at the point where whites have friends who are black blacks have friends who are white
00:20:58.440usually they don't give it a thought if it comes up at all it's a joke between the two of them or
00:21:03.720the group of them i've seen this with my own eyes and ears that i don't know what kind of circles
00:21:09.300he's in but it is very common to have whites and blacks friends including at the teenage level
00:21:15.080and it's not a thing no one's thinking about the skin color and if they are it's in a humorous
00:21:20.560fun way that diminishes it to remove any awkwardness around it, given a circumstance.
00:21:26.320This is so effed up that he just because they it was a bunch of white kids who had a dear,
00:21:33.140lovely, best black friend, they get blamed. And no signs of foul play. Again, all we have is the
00:21:42.160mom thought it was weird that his phone didn't have photos on it. That's it. That's it. There
00:21:46.600are so many other innocent explanations for that besides the white boys killed him and then wiped
00:21:54.860his phone. And no one, no one has been able to explain how these white kids allegedly killed
00:22:02.160Nolan Wells, their dear friend whom they loved in the middle of thousands of beachgoers that day,
00:22:09.880because we know that he was with Katie when they said goodbye. And then that boat went back to the
00:22:15.620mainland where it was at 430. So I guess if you think some white kids killed him, it wasn't the
00:22:22.660dear friends who were on that boat because he was with Katie, who is alive and well and talking to
00:22:29.100people. We don't know exactly whom, but certainly it looks like she's spoken to Hudson. She's
00:22:34.960spoken with her mom. I imagine the cops have talked to her. So she's going to be critical
00:22:39.360in all of this. Maybe the allegation, even though he didn't make it this way, is more general that
00:22:44.600just some whites, some whites somewhere on the island killed him for some reason. I think we
00:22:49.320need to do a little better than that before we start a race war. I'm just going to throw that
00:22:53.940out there as a possibility. Maybe you shut the fuck up about whites and blacks and race relations
00:23:00.180until you know what's what. Because what I see down there is whites and blacks who loved each
00:23:08.020other. And that's something I see every day in my life as an American. I don't know what
00:23:14.420Congressman Jackson lives in every day, but it bears no reflection to the life I lead,
00:23:21.960my family leads, my friends lead. It's disgusting. Emmett Till's name has been brought up several
00:23:30.060times during this case and this week, as we pointed out on the show the other day. But here's
00:23:36.080Benjamin Crump and Al Sharpton mentioning him. We're trying to dot every I and cross every T
00:23:43.260because we understand that when our children lives are at stake, it matters. Not just what happened,
00:23:57.520but what we do in the aftermath of them being taken away from us.
00:24:03.460And just like the end of ACP stood up when another tragedy in Mississippi, taking the life of young Emmett Till, we will stand up for Nolan Wells.
00:24:17.880So the reason why a lot of people in the nation are looking at this Nolan situation is that we've looked at history in Mississippi.
00:24:29.120I look back in the history and I noticed that Emmett Till happened here.
00:24:40.060USA Today's Nancy Armour also managed to bring up Emmett Till's name in a story this week about WNBA player Caitlin Clark saying Caitlin Clark should stop flopping.
00:24:50.380you know, or like a player overplays their alleged injury in order to elicit a foul call on an
00:24:55.620opponent. Because in the WNBA, most of those she's playing against are black lesbians. And
00:25:01.800because of Emmett Till, she's putting them in danger by feigning injury. So LeBron James can
00:25:13.180do it, but Caitlin Clark can't do it because of Emmett Till. Okay. This woman, it's wonderful to
00:25:18.740see Nancy Armour get so dragged. She is getting dragged on X and it's about time. If you're a
00:25:24.300long-term listener to this show, you know we've been on the Nancy Armour case for a long, long
00:25:28.600time here. This USA Today, whack-a-doodle. And it's delightful to see others now seeing what a
00:25:37.520nutcase she is. Tomorrow would have been Emmett Till's 85th birthday if he had not been lynched
00:25:43.220in 1955 in Mississippi. He was 14 years old when he was kidnapped, beaten, shot in the head,
00:25:50.300and his body dumped in a river. He had been accused of whistling at a white woman. No one
00:25:56.600was ever held accountable for what was done to him. It's horrific. There's no question that we
00:26:02.720have a very, very dark past when it comes to race relations in this country. But you know what?
00:26:08.460in 2026 America, we're doing a hell of a lot better. And we have been for decades.
00:26:14.960It's only people with an agenda who want to pretend it's otherwise. Both the Emmett Till case
00:26:21.620and Nolan Wells going missing for a day and then turning up deceased happened in Mississippi.
00:26:30.420That's two coincidences. Both involve teenage black boys who wound up dead. One clearly murdered
00:26:38.280under the most gruesome horrific circumstances possible. One in whose death the police for now
00:26:43.940are saying there are no signs of foul play. All right, there is just zero evidence that Wells's
00:26:49.780friends or anyone he was with that day are secretly running around angry, violent racists
00:26:57.580who murdered him on an island with thousands of others on it and that authorities are now engaged
00:27:04.000in a decision to cover it up. Was Nolan Wells harmed by people who might have been on the
00:27:11.160island that day after that boat left, that first boat? We have no idea. Again, what we know so far
00:27:18.780is the sheriff says no signs of foul play. And the independent autopsy done by the Ben Crump team
00:27:27.420did not come out and say clearly he was murdered. They said inconclusive. They can't be clear.
00:27:34.000They can't be sure. They don't have the throat again. And they don't have toxicology, which is
00:27:39.800what the main autopsy is waiting on. But to be clear, Mr. Jackson said, quote, the young people
00:27:45.780that were around Mr. Wells that day know something. That's a serious accusation to make
00:27:51.440against these young men. And you heard Congressman Jackson also say there's a pattern of deception
00:27:57.560and denial. No, there isn't. There's literally not one deception that they can point to right
00:28:02.460now, not one, and that they've never been thoroughly interrogated, that they coordinated
00:28:08.480their message. There's zero evidence of that, zero. He's making this shit up. It's very
00:28:13.260irresponsible. The police say the friends have been cooperating with the investigation. This is
00:28:20.260just an attempted railroad of young boys, young teenage boys who don't deserve this.
00:28:29.020um joining me now is investigative journalist chris hansen he was a longtime host of the hit
00:28:35.480series dateline nbc's to catch a predator and now he's the host of takedown with chris hansen he has
00:28:41.340spent his adult life with criminals catching them and dealing with law enforcement
00:28:47.960feeling sluggish bloated not quite like yourself life constantly bombards us with silent threats
00:28:55.760processed foods, artificial light, nonstop stress, all of which can disrupt gut health,
00:29:01.680drain energy, and weaken immune health. When that happens, it's not that your body is broken,
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00:29:59.080And I tell you what, you know, I've interrogated or interviewed hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of men over the years,
00:30:06.240including my own sons when they were the same age as Nolan Wells and Hudson.
00:30:10.500And you see that interview with Hudson. And the thing that's striking me most right now is that he doesn't appear to be deceptive. He doesn't seem to be lying about this or nervous. It's obvious that he cared about Nolan. But the reality is, Megan, somebody had to be the last one to see Nolan alive. Right.
00:30:32.380So the question now is, who was that? And what did they see? It's frustrating to a lot of people.
00:30:40.260And if it was my child, I'd be frustrated, too. And I understand the concern about the phone and
00:30:46.660no videos, but there's no evidence that the phone was scrubbed. And having been a lifelong boater
00:30:51.920on and off from the time I was Nolan Wells' age, I understand why they would put the phone
00:30:56.960in the center console or in the front console of the boat, because you're up to your waist in water.
00:31:01.840So while Nolan was a prolific Snapchatter and liked to videotape and post all day long,
00:31:07.800I can understand why he didn't in this particular case.
00:31:11.320But again, why does a young man stay behind, right?
00:31:14.460At that age, it's typically because of a young woman.
00:31:18.000Was it Katie, who he was chatting with?
00:35:10.380But, you know, the other question I have, Megan, is that, you know, this wasn't an island where you could duck over to the crab shack or, you know, grab a fish sandwich or hang out or, you know, there was a campground or anything.
00:36:41.440Every 18-year-old boy on the planet who's in that situation, surrounded by cute bikini-clad girls, is going to want to talk to one of them.
00:37:15.380You know, you're just enjoying your life.
00:37:16.980But something happened between the time that that boat left, the boat that he had arrived on, the boat that apparently had the bilge problem, and the rest of the boat's leaving.
00:37:31.800And I know those situations where those raft-ups occur are chaotic, but I just, I can't think of a way, and it frustrates me, and I did some reporting on this before coming on, knowing you're going to want to talk about it.
00:37:42.500And I can't figure out why this young man either stayed behind or was left behind.
00:39:22.320And he did not have the little connection between the key and his waistband that they urge you to have.
00:39:29.920And the second man was hit by the boat and killed.
00:39:32.680And you see that all the time. If you take your kids tubing or water skiing, you have to put the flag on your boat to tell everybody, I've got a person out of my boat nearby. Be careful. Not everybody does, especially in a place like this where it's a bunch of kids. And I can easily see something happening where one of the other boats leaving, if he were in the water, possibly hit him and he went down that way. There's just so many possibilities that are endless.
00:39:57.800I mean, even as an experienced boater, a skipper, you know, I took all the Coast Guard classes and did a lot of boating on the East Coast in Michigan.
00:40:09.380And you can slip on the swim platform of a boat.
00:40:13.220And I've caught myself a couple times over the years right on the edge of something.
00:40:17.440And, you know, it can be slippery and you're not paying attention for one split second and down you go.
00:40:22.100And I can recite case after case of celebrities who have had issues on boats.
00:40:28.500The ballplayer Norm Cash was coming out of a restaurant in Beaver Island, Michigan, walking on the dock, slipped between his boat and the dock.
00:40:37.640They didn't find him until the next morning.
00:52:22.740Have you ever seen the stories where men come to the house trying to meet teens?
00:52:26.740Yes, but I wasn't trying to do that, I promise.
00:52:29.740Well, I've got to tell you something. I'm Chris Hansen with Dateline NBC, and we're doing a story on guys, men, trying to meet teens on the Internet.
00:53:28.360Yeah. And so for me, it also lets me dig in and relive the experience and say, look, this is what this guy did afterwards, right?
00:53:38.960He either got his act together, if that's possible in these cases, and he hasn't been in trouble, or you won't believe what he did next.
00:53:46.180And then we have the Have a Seat podcast that drops every Wednesday, and that's more of an interview program.
00:53:53.380We do a lot of different things, whether it's the Epstein case or other investigative stories, crime-related stories, and sometimes just some things that I'm interested in.
00:54:02.900So those you can watch on the Have a Seat with Chris Hansen YouTube channel, and they're also available anywhere you get your podcasts.
00:54:11.760I'm thrilled to see you thriving independently, free of NBC.
00:54:18.500You know, it's not easy when you start it, but I've got to tell you, for a guy who's been doing this as long as I have, this is the absolute perfect combination and such freedom to have your own network, to have ownership of the content and ownership of the distribution of that content.
00:54:43.540I honestly cannot think of a better way to do this.
00:54:53.300You know, I was there for 21 years and built a brand and a name and was able to have the freedom to, you know, explore these areas, to travel the world.
00:55:15.520I think it was less than 16 months if we're counting, but still met a lot of wonderful people, a couple of whom are still with me, working for me now.
00:55:24.240So I feel like we rescued each other and got out of there.
00:55:27.720And look, you know, there is such a robust opportunity in the independent lane for you to have a direct relationship with the audience.
00:55:35.140And it's so authentic and real because they don't have to click on your face.
00:55:39.600If they're there, they're there by choice.
00:55:42.220It's not like, oh, well, he was on Dateline and I watched Dateline.
00:55:45.520Or, you know, even on Fox, I used to say you never knew if it was like they were tuning in for you or it's because you followed O'Reilly or because it's a Fox fan who just has Fox on all day long.
00:58:32.080And that's, I think, what most parents would do and probably leave it there because people are busy.
00:58:36.900But the truth is, if all the parents who have had this experience with their kids filed a lawsuit or called the authorities, the numbers would probably be a lot bigger even than the ones you cited.
00:58:46.340By the way, I can only imagine Chris Hansen walking through CrimeCon.
00:58:49.600Was it like, did you feel like Tom Cruise?
00:59:27.700And so if you don't want to be in the public eye, if you don't want to be gracious or act accordingly, then you're in the wrong business, right?
00:59:48.280But, you know, we have a responsibility.
00:59:51.340And so going to CrimeCon, to me, is part of that.
00:59:54.300But, you know, you talk about this world we now inhabit, Megan, that, you know, I got to be the oldest guy in America with 1.1 million TikTok followers.
01:00:05.120But it's a very valuable tool for journalism.
01:00:08.100And in the course of the Roblox investigation, you know, it got out there that Schlepp, who's got a big social media following, was working with me.
01:00:17.400And a woman reached out and just made a video saying,
01:00:22.280I'm trying to reach Chris Hansen and his team because I've got a story about Roblox.
01:00:26.260And my wife happened to see it and said, you should talk to this woman.
01:08:04.060But Minecraft you have to be careful with, too.
01:08:05.800Any game where your kids can interact,
01:08:10.440You have to be careful of who they're talking to.
01:08:12.760And all of this comes down to a discussion that you have to have with your kids.
01:08:19.660And from the very moment they have access to the Internet, you've got to tell them, look, there are grownups on the Internet who try to trick kids.
01:12:16.020You know, they'll send them a video of some random girl behaving inappropriately to lure them in, to lure the boy into like, oh, I'm talking to a real girl and she sent me this and I would like to see more of that.
01:12:27.780And if I just send her this, I will see more of that.
01:15:00.160restroom with us now naked and holding his privates was a little chilly i suppose
01:15:08.800the onside decoy says she's gonna go use the restroom so he's out there waiting josh is
01:15:18.640waiting and we're watching it's time to start the show but you know how to make yourself right at
01:15:26.940home don't you have a seat on that stool right over there nope you can put clothes you can put
01:15:31.920your clothes on josh asks if he can put his clothes on i was pretty insistent that he did
01:15:38.800you can't make it up that one had a shock even you i does so just just for the record that's
01:15:49.740the third guy in the history of the predator investigations who's walked in naked number
01:15:54.640three and did he have a seat he did well he got dressed first you know it's i'll tell you a funny
01:16:01.220backstory the the very first guy who walked in naked john connelly special guy 29 who was neither
01:16:08.62029 nor special as it turns out but he walks in naked i give him a blanket but he's sitting on
01:16:14.560this this stool uh naked which nobody wanted to obviously sit on after the predator was there
01:16:20.280But the house we were in at the time, we rented from a retired FBI agent friend of mine who I'd known for many, many years, and it just was a good fit.
01:16:30.300So this stool has been in existence for all these years, so it gets sent around to various friends of mine.
01:16:37.960This box will arrive, and it's the stool where John Kennelly sat naked.
01:22:03.760And we've got enough problems in this country without, you know, guys being here illegally from whatever country trying to harm our children.
01:29:53.060And so when the law enforcement authorities and the prosecutors get this, the evidence is in the chat.
01:29:59.380They can get a conviction just with the chat logs.
01:30:01.980And because we employ law enforcement chatters, you know, in the early days, we had an advocacy group do the chatting because not every law enforcement agency had the capability.
01:30:14.480But today, all the law enforcement agencies with which we work have their own chatters.
01:30:20.320And so there's no chain of custody disputes for the evidence.
01:30:53.720And in the takedown episodes, the women are always affiliated with the law enforcement.
01:30:57.900Now, it might be a youngish deputy who works in the jail.
01:31:01.680But it's structured each, you know, whether it's a public takedown or whether it's in a sting house, it's structured for safety.
01:31:10.580And if I see something going sideways, I mean, I step out and let law enforcement handle it.
01:31:15.640I'm going to get a great interview either way, whether I get the guy at the kitchen counter standing there in some various state of undress or whatever he's doing, eating or drinking a beer.
01:31:27.680it's going to be just as good then as it is if he's got handcuffs on.
01:31:33.300So I just have to remain flexible in terms of my technique.
01:31:40.680And once in a while you get a guy who just goes Silent Sam on you.
01:31:45.140And we had that happen just a couple months ago.
01:31:48.560We were in Maryland, Harford County, Maryland, great sheriff's office there.
01:31:53.040And we had a guy show up in that sting who was a lieutenant with the Metro D.C. Police Department in our nation's capital.
01:32:03.540He had been on the force for 20-plus years.
01:32:06.960He was in charge of dignitary motorcade processions, including that of the president of the United States and other visiting heads of state.
01:36:08.040And then, just two weeks ago, Santa's brother gets popped in the same county in a Walmart, exposing himself and masturbating in front of a young mother and her child.