The Megyn Kelly Show - October 28, 2026


Russell Brand Takes the Stand, and Jennifer Lawrence's New Face, Plus SHOCK SC and MN Polls, with Mark Halperin | Ep. 1429

James Comey Charged Again, Lula Wins Brazil Election, Tiffany Thief Convicted: AM Update 10⧸27 Bombshell Report That Ilhan Omar Investigation Started Under OBAMA, Plus the Scheme to Trick Alaska Voters, with Stu Burguiere | Ep. 1430

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 44 minutes

Words per minute

178.05

Word count

18,625

Sentence count

1,160

Harmful content

Misogyny

47

sentences flagged

Toxicity

96

sentences flagged

Hate speech

30

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
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00:00:58.620 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.
00:01:12.500 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Wednesday.
00:01:16.520 What a show today, my goodness. There's some shocking new polls out today. With six days 1.00
00:01:22.940 to go until the midterms, we will get to them with NextUp host Mark Halperin. He'll be joining
00:01:28.460 us in our next hour. But first, major updates in the Russell Brand rape trial. Brand taking the
00:01:36.760 stand, as we predicted yesterday, in his trial this morning, UK time. The comedian faces seven
00:01:43.780 charges related to six female accusers who claim he touched them without their consent or had sex
00:01:50.420 with them without their consent. Brand denying the allegations under oath and blaming that 2023
00:01:57.720 3 Channel 4 in the UK documentary. Again, that's in quotes. In fact, one of the things he told the
00:02:04.100 court today was that he did not consider that program, which he calls a TV show, a documentary.
00:02:09.820 We had our own questions about it and the way it was done, some of which we discussed yesterday.
00:02:15.260 But in any event, that piece featured allegations from four different women
00:02:19.380 for setting motion in motion the criminal charges against him. And indeed, it did. There's just no
00:02:24.820 doubt about it. So she tried to make him look like a whiner because he was blaming the documentary
00:02:28.880 when he got crossed for his current legal troubles and, you know, for all these other
00:02:34.580 women coming forward. And he's not wrong. That's exactly what they all testified to. I'm not sure
00:02:38.600 why she thought the prosecutor, that she was making big points on that. Obviously. I mean,
00:02:44.000 the women conceded it. So, like, why is it a big gotcha for Russell to say, yeah, I blame that
00:02:49.960 so-called documentary for what I'm doing here, for why I am here. All these women accusing now
00:02:55.180 of rape or sexual assault said nothing for 23 plus years in many cases. And, um, in fact,
00:03:02.600 they, they were telling other friends and family, most of them that they weren't raped or there was 0.93
00:03:08.220 like, he attempted to have oral sex with them, but they didn't do it. And it wasn't until they 0.90
00:03:12.900 watched this piece that they were like, Oh, I'm, I'm a victim. Oh, and yeah, I actually,
00:03:16.800 I did give a blowjob. Oh, and it was against my will. I mean, this is what he's up against. 0.99
00:03:23.080 So the cross-examination, we don't have videotape. We only have
00:03:29.080 write-ups from a very anti-Russell brand press corps over there that has every interest in
00:03:35.580 making him look as bad as possible. And boy, they do do their best, don't they?
00:03:40.580 They certainly do their best. I was talking to a friend of mine who's been listening to
00:03:44.420 our coverage over in the UK. And this person was saying that they went back and listened to some of
00:03:49.660 that BBC podcast about Russell that we've been citing as we play the clips of the BBC reporter
00:03:58.620 who's been in court each day. And he did point out that on one of the episodes, she refers to all the
00:04:03.580 female complainants who are testifying as very brave. How do you know they're brave?
00:04:08.080 maybe they're actually political activists maybe they are women who have reimagined what happened 0.98
00:04:15.300 with russell brand because they don't like his politics maybe they are like jane doe in the
00:04:20.060 cornell case and they just feel bad about consenting to certain sex acts after knowing
00:04:25.340 him for about two minutes and they wound up feeling dirty and decided to blame the man as
00:04:30.440 opposed to themselves how do you know they're brave what is that like stop it's not an appropriate
00:04:36.060 word for a BBC objective news reporter, get it together. Right. Um, and what's really crazy. I
00:04:44.640 told you this last week, but we are like one of the only places you can go for actual analysis
00:04:50.520 of this trial. And the reason is in great Britain, if you agree to go sit in the courtroom every day
00:04:56.780 and listen to the testimonials, you're not allowed to pair it with analysis. All these channels are
00:05:02.180 getting dragged right now because the ones that are sitting in there providing us with what
00:05:07.540 happened, the details of what happened, they've turned off their comments. And people think it's
00:05:11.620 because they don't want, you know, to get dragged for their coverage. In their defense, they're
00:05:16.440 doing it because the system over there is draconian. If you engage in analysis after you've
00:05:25.420 sat and watched the facts come out, and then you've reported on those facts, you're in violation
00:05:33.420 of the court's edict that you may not engage in analysis. This is why we chose not to go over
00:05:40.880 there and cover it. I'll let the others cover it and tell us what happened in there. But my ability
00:05:46.640 to provide analysis on this case is far more important than my ability or the need to have me
00:05:52.240 sit in the court and act as a stenographer for you. I can let other people do that.
00:05:58.500 And then we absolutely will be analyzing every single day. And if the British court doesn't
00:06:04.320 like it, he can pound sand. We fought a whole war so that I don't have to answer to you, sir.
00:06:11.920 It's just absolutely obnoxious saying it that way because our panel last week was suggesting I
00:06:16.400 shouldn't go to London because we've been so free about analyzing what's happening inside that
00:06:22.920 courtroom. Too effing bad. I'm not a Brit. I'm an American and I'm an American journalist. And I can
00:06:30.780 say whatever I want when it comes to legal analysis of a trial over there or here. I don't
00:06:37.840 have to abide by your rules. This is it's insane the way they run things there. Veterans Day is
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00:07:32.740 That's MK to the number 989898. Do it today. Here's what we know. We didn't get to yesterday
00:07:41.420 the fact that one of the last witnesses for the prosecution was Russell Brand's assistant.
00:07:47.800 He had a former personal assistant take the stand.
00:07:51.000 And I would say she wasn't critical, but she wasn't particularly helpful to Russell.
00:07:56.440 She testified that Russell was insatiable, that he talked about sex all the time,
00:08:04.160 that at one point he asked her whether he could go have sex again.
00:08:09.080 um i don't have it in front of me but that was basically where she went like it wasn't helpful
00:08:15.400 for him but it wasn't devastating it was basically just painting a picture about how he behaved her
00:08:21.380 name was helen berger we actually have some of it again from that bbc podcast fame under fire
00:08:26.080 reporting on what she said was her experience working for russell sat 23 so she said quote
00:08:33.660 when i would go to russell brand's flat he was always in his underwear as he loved walking
00:08:37.500 around in his underwear with no shirt on she continued saying quote working for russell brand
00:08:41.740 was one of the hardest jobs i ever did as he had non-stop energy i worked a lot and was exhausted
00:08:46.720 emotionally as he was a lot to deal with she commented on his sexual behavior saying quote
00:08:52.200 he had an insane sexual appetite and was sleeping with people day and night and she also continued
00:08:57.800 saying making an observation on how he was after sexual encounter saying quote he never seemed 0.66
00:09:03.020 happy after sex more so depressed and there was some more included within her statement that was
00:09:08.340 read out loud to the jury about his behavior around sexual encounters and his behavior and
00:09:13.000 relationship with sex more broadly saying quote there were times at his house when we were working
00:09:17.060 on a deadline and he would get antsy and joke with me saying quote may i go and have sex now
00:09:21.580 she also said that women would often come over and it was clear they were there for sex and that
00:09:25.780 she'd excuse herself and let herself out but that after a certain point she became aware that russell
00:09:30.080 brand didn't always know these women and that he'd met them primarily through my space as well as
00:09:34.680 recalling some of the alleged sexualized behavior she remembers while working for russell brand she
00:09:39.120 also said i never witnessed him do anything against the law nor did anyone disclose anything
00:09:44.000 like that to me i did see russell brand treat women poorly i'd seen bad behavior before but
00:09:48.900 this was on another level but just to reiterate there was a clear statement from his former
00:09:52.660 personal assistant that she had never seen anything criminal nor had anyone reported that
00:09:56.560 to her. Okay. So there you have it. It's, you know, that's, he could have done worse
00:10:03.420 with a personal assistant coming out and speaking about him. It really wasn't that bad. And then
00:10:09.760 things wrapped up. And then we got to today. Russell Brand did take the stand. It began around
00:10:16.860 6 a.m. Eastern time. I think the UK is only four hours ahead of us right now, given the
00:10:22.260 daylight savings. I'm not sure it's four or five, but in any event. So they got started this morning,
00:10:26.040 first thing, and I'm going to go through it with you. Okay, so here, I'm going to start with the
00:10:31.000 direct questioning. His lawyer, Ian Winter, who has been doing the cross-examinations of the
00:10:36.220 complainants, was his interlocutor who walked him through his testimony before this jury that has
00:10:43.380 heard so much about him as he has sat there for three weeks hearing these women through tears and
00:10:49.540 emotional testimony tell absolutely terrible stories about him. So I'm sure the jury was
00:10:55.020 looking forward to hearing from him directly with great anticipation, not to mention he's a big star
00:10:59.400 now. So there's always that added element of it. The UK Times reported he showed up in a dark suit
00:11:06.200 with his usual team of supporters, including his wife, his manager, and his father was there today,
00:11:11.660 took his seat in the dock quietly, adopted the bolt upright position that he has mostly stayed
00:11:15.940 in throughout the course of the proceedings. His hands were placed on his lap. First, the jury was
00:11:20.800 read four pre-prepared statements that Brand gave to police between November 2023 and July 2025
00:11:27.300 after these charges were brought. On all four occasions, he denied ever having non-consensual
00:11:33.820 sexual activity. His first statement read, quote, as I have repeatedly stated publicly and written
00:11:39.480 about extensively, I led a very promiscuous life in the past, which I've spent years openly
00:11:44.780 denouncing. On 16 September 2023, this is Russell in his written statement,
00:11:50.860 a or a pre-prepared statement, I guess I should say, a defamatory and fictitious documentary was
00:11:56.340 broadcast in conjunction with the publication of two national newspapers containing false
00:12:01.340 anonymized allegations, which led to unprecedented media reporting. He went on to say that the media
00:12:07.720 and the police, quote, publicly invited additional allegations to be made, quote, which has resulted
00:12:13.440 and further encounters to be invented or reimagined. Again, he is blaming that so-called
00:12:18.620 documentary. We went through it yesterday. They used actors to portray anonymized, quote, victims.
00:12:26.300 The actors put the alleged victims' complaints into the oral spoken form and then were filmed
00:12:35.160 as though they were the actual women with a very small disclaimer on the screen to show the audience
00:12:41.120 that they were actors, but I'm telling you that matters. An actor can portray a woman's story
00:12:48.980 sometimes better than the actual woman. Let's say the woman is a liar or has something to hide. 0.97
00:12:54.420 The actor would have none of that holding her testimonial back. The actor would portray 0.71
00:12:58.560 a woman's rape story probably empathetically and persuasively and wouldn't be telegraphing any of
00:13:05.440 the doubts, fears that come with lying or exaggerating, fears of a backstory emerging,
00:13:11.880 et cetera, that the actual woman might project. Body language is how the vast majority of our
00:13:16.540 communication takes place. This is all manipulative. And as the women spoke, they ran this scary
00:13:21.720 music track under their testimonials. This was dropped on Russell Brand, not when he was beloved
00:13:28.060 by the left, which he was for many years, but once he had migrated toward conservative politics,
00:13:34.020 as so many people do as they get older.
00:13:36.940 That's when they decided to take down Russell Brandt.
00:13:39.560 He was huge in the UK.
00:13:41.520 And when that documentary hit, again, in air quotes,
00:13:45.280 there was a push by the woman in the British government
00:13:48.000 to have him de-platformed.
00:13:49.640 YouTube did it.
00:13:51.300 So this is the situation he was in.
00:13:53.160 This is, of course, why he says the media and the police.
00:13:56.620 And there was testimony that this one journalist in particular
00:13:59.360 was shepherding these other women to the police.
00:14:01.680 Not one of the women in the documentary wound up participating in the criminal charges against him.
00:14:07.500 These are other women facilitated in part by this one journalist.
00:14:12.200 So, yeah, he said that he believes the media and the police publicly invited additional allegations to be made, which has resulted in further encounter encounters, he says, to be invented or reimagined.
00:14:21.180 I think reimagined is a good word here.
00:14:23.720 I'm not saying these women all did that, but I do think it happens where women have consensual encounters with men that they feel dirty about after the fact, and they, quote, reimagine it into something non-consensual, which conveniently totally exonerates them and their virtue while demonizing the man.
00:14:43.300 And who cares if you can't stand him, if he's politically controversial, if you think he must be a bad man anyway, if you since have learned he was incredibly promiscuous and kind of a dirtbag toward women in the way that, you know, as soon as he was done with them, he'd shepherd them out the door.
00:14:59.520 You could be angry and reimagine.
00:15:02.840 It's basically his defense, all consensual, reimagined or simply invented.
00:15:08.000 uh he testified about his exploding fame after marrying katie perry we talked about that too
00:15:15.060 when he was here on this set he said he achieved staggering fame after marrying her in october of
00:15:20.760 2010 he agreed with the defense lawyer that he was very famous by 29 2009 but the marriage brought
00:15:27.260 about a sea change in his life and we talked about that when he was here on the show about
00:15:32.400 how Katy Perry was determined to become the biggest pop star in the world and that she did
00:15:38.600 it, you know, for a time she was, and he was her spouse at the time. And while he had achieved some
00:15:43.740 fame on his own prior to that, it was nothing like what happened when he married her. I mean,
00:15:49.120 I will say my own life, I have noticed there is stardom, um, where people know you, you're famous.
00:15:55.800 And then there is rockstar stardom, which truly is, there's a reason they say like,
00:16:01.040 he's a rock star. It's next level, next level. Like it is sort of Beatlemania level for some
00:16:09.720 of these singers. And it can be life-changing for sure. He told the court what we heard
00:16:17.120 in that soundbite that we played on our show, which was that around the time of that so-called
00:16:24.320 documentary, his baby son had to have open heart surgery. And it was a very stressful time. And
00:16:30.940 then he testified that the hospital refused to let him stay with his son, quote, due to the
00:16:36.600 materials published, which is just shocking. He said his entire life has been consumed by these
00:16:44.220 allegations. Okay. He talked about the accusations in the documentary, saying they took a massive
00:16:53.020 personal toll on him. He was asked by his lawyer, Ian White, were you able to persuade a single
00:16:59.040 person with relevant evidence to come and give evidence on your behalf? Brand said, I have not.
00:17:05.100 Winter said, would they touch you with a barge pole? Brand said, no. He later told the court he
00:17:10.580 did not consider it to be a documentary. I call it a TV show, he said. But he was trying to say
00:17:15.120 that he had struggled to find anyone to help him recreate these events, come forward to say,
00:17:20.780 you know, it's not true, et cetera, because that Channel 4 dispatches piece was, quote,
00:17:26.920 devastating. And it was clearly meant to be, clearly meant to be. Regarding now remembering
00:17:34.920 certain details, because it has emerged that, as I told you a minute ago, his initial statement
00:17:41.880 to police denied any non-consensual activity, said this is all the fault of this defamatory
00:17:50.520 and fictitious documentary and believes he was set up by that, but it did not take on the
00:17:56.880 complainants one by one with details or with an independent memory. And yet today, as you'll hear
00:18:04.220 in a minute, he did have an independent memory of these women and he needed through his defense
00:18:10.080 lawyer to set up how that happened. He claimed that he was unable to remember any of the six
00:18:16.120 complainants before, you know, when he was, when he gave his written statements. However, he said
00:18:23.940 today he did remember some of the details in relation to the alleged encounters. Ian Winter
00:18:30.300 asked what changed. Brand replied that there had been a variety of new information regarding each
00:18:35.920 of the complainants, including video interviews that they had given, visits, or one particular
00:18:42.860 specific visit to a location of an alleged event. So he's saying that he's been listening to them,
00:18:49.720 seeing them, hearing them recount the stories directly and going to some of the places they
00:18:54.720 alleged they happened has rejiggered his memory, which actually could happen. Certainly seeing the
00:19:00.260 women testify about it. I mean, I think that would probably bring it back for you. I don't have the
00:19:04.320 greatest memory for events that have happened a long time ago, but I think seeing the person
00:19:07.720 testify, I swear I have the Brad Pitt disease, facial blindness, where if I don't meet somebody
00:19:12.020 five times in person, I don't remember them. And it's, people think maybe it's because I'm well
00:19:17.040 known. That's not it at all. No, no, no. I've had this since my lawyering days. If I don't meet you
00:19:23.720 in person, lay eyes on you and watch you talk and listen to you, I don't remember you unless I've
00:19:29.880 met you multiple times. It's very embarrassing sometimes because people are like, what do you
00:19:35.280 mean? I've been on your show. Now, if they're sitting across from me on the show for two hours
00:19:38.860 here in the studio, I would remember. But like, via satellite for a quick hit on the Kelly file,
00:19:43.620 and then all these years later, like, I got nothing. Sorry. So I can relate to people who
00:19:49.240 have that problem. In any event, he says he was, his memory was restored by seeing some of them.
00:19:56.420 His lawyer began by going through each of the allegations in the indictment and asking him
00:20:01.740 if he committed the offenses. He replied no to each one. Okay, complainant one, she's the one
00:20:06.500 who alleges a vaginal rape. I'm going to short form this for those of you who have been following
00:20:10.660 our coverage. For those of you who haven't, please listen to our podcast last week with
00:20:13.720 the lawyer panel. I think it was Thursday. We took a deep dive, Wednesday or Thursday.
00:20:17.700 Then again, yesterday, we updated the story Thursday. But quick form, three complainants
00:20:24.600 allege actual rape. One, complainant one, vaginal. Complainant three, oral. Complainant five,
00:20:29.800 anal. The other three allege some sort of, I mean, alleged fondling. Really, not really. 0.99
00:20:37.680 Complainant two alleges he grabbed her arm, tried to pull her into a bathroom stall, but she got
00:20:41.860 away. And that's been reduced from sexual assault or indecent assault to attempted indecent assault.
00:20:48.300 It's a joke. This one should not be in here. Then there is a complainant who alleges he,
00:20:52.820 I think, fondled her against her will. And then there's one who alleges at work together in the
00:20:58.640 same building, she was told to give him, by somebody else, a massage on his shoulders. She
00:21:02.480 did some of that, and that when he entered the room, he put his face down in her genital area. 0.98
00:21:09.340 She was clothed, but he was too close for comfort. So, I mean, let's just focus where the real thing 0.88
00:21:14.280 is, which is the three alleged rape counts. That's Complainant 1, 3, and 5. One, she
00:21:20.980 alleges that they went to a political event. It was a Labor Party British conference. That's a
00:21:29.560 leftist party. And that this is back in 1999. His politics were leftist. He was a kid. He was like
00:21:34.060 23, 24. I mean, he was an adult, but I'm just saying versus where he is now, 51. And they were
00:21:41.000 hitting it off. He wasn't famous. She was several years older than he was. And he said, let's go to
00:21:46.720 a pub and continue our conversation. She said, no, come back to my hotel room. It was after midnight.
00:21:52.200 We talked about it yesterday. Not a good move if you don't want to have sex with a man who you've 0.85
00:21:55.800 just met. Don't take him back to your hotel room after midnight. That's a bad idea. And let me tell
00:22:03.060 you why it's relevant. It's not that you waive your right not to be raped if you make that stupid 1.00
00:22:07.780 choice. It's that for this charge and for the others, whether Russell Brand reasonably believed 1.00
00:22:17.820 that he had consent is relevant. Like if his defense can prove he believed he had her consent,
00:22:26.580 all of that's going to factor in. She invited me back to her hotel room after midnight. I was the
00:22:32.380 one who suggested we go to a public place to consider our chat. She said, no, come alone with
00:22:37.860 me, stranger. Back to my hotel room. She's the older, more sophisticated one. He did.
00:22:44.600 He pointed out that he asked her, and she pointed this out too, to take his photograph, which she
00:22:49.540 did. That picture was introduced as evidence in trial. He had his shirt off and his pants on.
00:22:55.100 She had just come out of the bathroom, she says, when she noticed he had taken his shirt off.
00:22:58.760 His point is basically, what rapist asks his victim to take photos of him in the apartment?
00:23:06.700 Just so we can be super sure there's a record of my presence here, half naked. 0.99
00:23:13.060 They had sex on the bed. She says it was rape. He says it was consensual. 0.99
00:23:18.500 And then he gave her his email and said he wanted her to meet his mother and left.
00:23:27.640 and that was that. Now she claims he foisted her pants down. She still had her shoes and socks on,
00:23:34.440 still had her pants around her ankles when he had sex with her against her will. And she says she 0.81
00:23:39.940 made that clear. He says, absolutely not. Okay. So here is Ian Winter asking Brand about it.
00:23:48.740 She also told the jury she thought Brand was gay. That's her excuse for inviting him back to her 0.98
00:23:55.240 hotel room after midnight. I thought he was gay. I felt sexually safe with him. 0.99
00:23:59.260 Brandt told the court she invited him to her hotel room. He thought at the bare minimum,
00:24:03.300 it's better than sleeping and shared accommodation with his team at the time,
00:24:08.220 which I guess was his other option. He testified that he went to her hotel when he was 24
00:24:12.420 and hoped and thought there was a reasonable possibility of sex. They did have sex, he said,
00:24:18.100 adding he would have asked questions throughout the ordeal, such as, do you like this?
00:24:23.200 Winter asked Bran, and there was a lot of that kind of testimony from Russell today.
00:24:26.700 I would have said, I would have approached it like this, which clearly is a substitute for an actual memory.
00:24:33.940 It's one testifying to one's general approach, how one would do it.
00:24:38.460 And I think any of us could do that.
00:24:40.840 You know, if you think back on your own encounters in your life, in that department,
00:24:45.940 you could probably characterize your general approach to a sexual encounter
00:24:50.900 and what you would have done, and it is being allowed by the court.
00:24:55.940 He was asked if he got consent from complainant one when he had sex with her.
00:25:00.100 Brandt told the court, quote,
00:25:01.880 Consent is fundamental, essential, necessary, and indeed in many ways more important than sex itself.
00:25:07.340 That is classic Russell Brandt.
00:25:08.680 He likes to string multiple adjectives together to make his point, and he's very articulate.
00:25:16.040 it. Consent is fundamental, essential, necessary, and indeed in many ways more important than sex
00:25:21.560 itself. I gave it a shot. Brand said, there was no question in my mind that I got consent from
00:25:28.120 this woman because of the talking and the intimacy. He described complainant one as vivacious, vital,
00:25:34.580 loquacious, and unusual. There he goes again. But those are good adjectives. That makes you believe
00:25:39.180 he did know her. He does remember her. Vivacious, vital, loquacious, and unusual. I mean, loquacious
00:25:44.920 would be. I suppose you could glean that from her testimonial on the videotape, but in any event or
00:25:50.680 in court. Said he remembered the pair fooling around, flirting and messing around in her room.
00:25:57.200 Said there was kissing on the body and sex with a condom. Said he did not force her to take 0.97
00:26:01.740 photographs of him topless. I don't know how you'd make someone take photographs, he said.
00:26:06.900 Did you make her take photographs? Asked his lawyer. No. Brand said he remembered using a
00:26:12.620 condom because that was the way that people had sex in 1999. That was the cultural programming.
00:26:19.720 Brand said he had hoped the woman would remain in contact with him after he gave her his email
00:26:23.480 address. The defense asked, did you give her that email address? Brand said, yes. Why? So we could
00:26:28.820 remain in contact. Were you seeking to hide from her or run away from her? Brand said, no. That is
00:26:36.140 relevant. I'm trying to remember, to be honest with you. I can't remember. There was testimony
00:26:41.940 from one witness, a male member of Russell's team
00:26:45.780 after one of these encounters where he said
00:26:48.460 Russell seemed to want to get out of the town
00:26:51.520 immediately that next morning.
00:26:54.100 I cannot remember whether it was with complainant one,
00:26:56.940 but if it was, that's what they're going for here.
00:26:58.960 Were you seeking to hide or run away from her?
00:27:00.460 No.
00:27:01.200 Did you hope she might get in touch?
00:27:02.480 Yes.
00:27:03.160 He added that he has no memory of whether or not
00:27:05.700 she did get in touch after the fact.
00:27:07.820 We have some of that in South 5.
00:27:10.260 The guy's name is Mark.
00:27:11.940 Let's watch it.
00:27:13.020 The journey to where they were going to be performing at the Fringe event,
00:27:16.420 that Russell Brand was bragging in the car about how he wants to sleep with 5,000 women
00:27:20.400 and how he's really good at picking up women on nights out.
00:27:23.340 He said he spent a lot of his time in the car talking about women.
00:27:26.460 That after they'd done their performances and just after their last show,
00:27:30.640 that Russell Brand disappeared.
00:27:32.540 Mark Pernura says, we didn't know where he went until he came back the next morning,
00:27:36.920 rushing us out of the accommodation where we were staying,
00:27:39.500 taking our coats off the hooks and throwing them at us and saying, we have to leave.
00:27:43.280 Now, Mark Pinero said that after this, Russell Brand became homeless for a period of time and actually moved in with him.
00:27:48.560 And it was during that time that they lived together that he asked him about what happened in Bournemouth after that cabaret event.
00:27:54.600 And Russell Brand admitted he didn't leave because he had forgotten about an audition,
00:27:59.140 that he did have sex with a woman while he was there and things may have got, quote, a little bit heated and a little bit out of hand.
00:28:05.160 okay so she was talking about the um the cabaret i'm not exactly sure i'm pretty sure this was in
00:28:13.580 response to complainant one so i'll have to tie this together with my team but my team is telling
00:28:17.900 me this was a friend testifying about complainant one uh in any event russell saying he did not seek
00:28:23.760 to run away from her and that it was entirely uh consensual now i'm just going to jump you know
00:28:29.580 the way this went in court was direct exam with russell they went through all the complainants
00:28:33.980 and then the prosecutor got up and did a cross. I think it's more edifying if I switch right now
00:28:39.940 back and forth between defense and prosecution per complainant. This is how the cross sounded
00:28:48.700 on complainant one. And I'll get back to the general cross also seemed to try to set up
00:28:55.840 Russell as a derelict. As you heard of that goal of sleeping with 5,000 women, he was asked about
00:29:01.360 that. He did not, he said that was not a goal. He doesn't recall that conversation. He doesn't
00:29:06.000 agree. Um, they tried to get him to speak to consent generally. And he said it was important,
00:29:11.220 et cetera. They tried to say that wasn't always your attitude, not between 1999 and 2009.
00:29:17.260 Russell said it was consent is absolutely non-negotiable. Um, they set the business
00:29:21.500 up about you blame channel four, don't you? Yes. You blame the media. Yes. They're probably,
00:29:26.840 this is setting up their closing where they're going to say he blames everybody, but himself.
00:29:30.180 um they they got him to admit that he was obsessed with sex in his younger years
00:29:37.180 uh which he gave up pretty easily and um then they started to get to the the specifics by the way the
00:29:47.140 prosecution also asked him if he was pretending in those earlier statements with the police
00:29:51.880 not to remember his alleged sexual encounters with the complainants um when he was first
00:29:57.240 interviewed. And the prosecutor suggested that this was a pattern with Russell Brand consistently
00:30:03.780 failing to recall the incidents until evidence was shown to him, including photos of sometimes
00:30:09.780 inside his home. You couldn't pretend you couldn't remember because you saw the evidence was there,
00:30:13.680 said the prosecution. I disagree, said Russell. She pressed him on why he didn't hand over his
00:30:19.160 phone to the police when he was first asked to. He said, I didn't understand it was required. I'd
00:30:23.160 happily comply with any requests for info and so on. Then they got into some stuff about
00:30:28.480 complainant five. Okay. But, oh, here's one thing on complainant number one. The prosecutor asked
00:30:34.580 him about, suggested that he was pretending to be gay, suggesting that he did this sometimes to
00:30:43.460 gain the trust of women, in particular, the woman he's accused of raping in a hotel room
00:30:47.860 in 1999, complainant one. And recall, she had testified, I thought he was gay. He was sexually 0.72
00:30:53.000 safe to me. Then the jury was shown a short extract from Brand's book, which was called
00:30:59.080 My Bookie Wook, published in 2007, in which he wrote a caption next to a young picture of
00:31:04.980 himself. The caption reads, this is the exact moment when I decided to act gay to attract girls.
00:31:10.680 It took 15 years to produce results. The prosecutor said that's something you would do,
00:31:16.820 wasn't it? That was something you would do to make girls trust you. Brand replied, no.
00:31:23.000 That's not a good moment for Russell Brand. No question. That's a point for the prosecution.
00:31:28.080 The first complainant said that's what he did. That's why she trusted him. Brand wrote that he
00:31:34.140 had decided he would do that exact thing in his own book. And then when confronted with it by
00:31:39.360 the prosecution, he denied the plan he outlined in his book. So you got to score one for the
00:31:45.020 prosecution on that. Complainant one, she asked Brand whether he could remember prancing around
00:31:52.840 the hotel room after meeting her at that Labor Party conference. And he said he could not remember.
00:31:59.640 The prosecutor said she was shocked when she came out of the bathroom saying you were prancing
00:32:04.780 around. Brand said, I don't remember that. He said it was possible that he jumped on the bed
00:32:09.560 like an ostrich when accused by the prosecutor of manipulating his story to fit around the
00:32:14.940 woman's evidence. Brand replied, I'm really doing my best to answer the questions as put to me.
00:32:20.700 The prosecution, there was a brief break, but she went on. She had said that there was no kindness,
00:32:26.920 no sweetness in this encounter with complainant one. Brand denied that he knew her, that he knew
00:32:34.140 the woman in the hotel room, was shocked and scared when he started to take off his clothes.
00:32:39.000 Talking about the encounter, he told the court, quote, as best as I can remember, there would be
00:32:43.020 kissing for initiation, I presume. Again, those catch words that seem to telegraph,
00:32:48.520 this is my general approach as opposed to my specific memory here. Quote, mouth-to-mouth
00:32:52.920 kissing, moving slowly towards someone, playing. He denied not caring whether the woman wanted to
00:32:57.940 have sex with him. Riel Carmi Jones, that's the name of the prosecutor, asked, you pushed her on 0.71
00:33:03.320 the bed against her will, didn't you, Mr. Brand? No, he said. You just didn't care whether she was
00:33:08.380 interested in having sex with you or not, did you? You didn't care, did you? Yes, I cared very much. 0.51
00:33:14.640 Brand said he was looking for, quote, more than consent from the woman, adding he was
00:33:18.240 seeking her approval. He told the jury he was asking questions such as, do you like this?
00:33:23.900 Carmi Jones asked him, are you quite sure, Mr. Brand? He replied, approval in its broadest sense.
00:33:30.920 Carmi Jones asked Brand, are you making this up as you stand here, Mr. Brand? He said, seeking
00:33:36.340 her approval and no. So you get the effect. This is rather dramatic. Um, a squaring off of
00:33:44.920 the person who has been the lead prosecutor pushing, putting, wanting to put him behind bars
00:33:50.740 potentially for the rest of his life. Matt Murphy told us last Thursday, the penalty for rape in the
00:33:56.700 UK is life up to it could be less than this is scary against a very large star who has both
00:34:06.060 cultural and political power and has admitted that he was incredibly, devastatingly promiscuous
00:34:14.000 in his younger years, something that he says he's really atoned for since then and had to wrestle
00:34:19.240 with, but never proceeded without consent, which we have witness testimony was not true. And we
00:34:26.080 have a prosecutor who clearly believes it's not true. On to complainant too. This is the joke of
00:34:31.100 the woman claiming he grabbed my arm. How dare they fold her in to the other women's case? But
00:34:36.900 here we go. Brand's lawyer asked him about this, in which it was alleged she tried to drag a female
00:34:44.760 worker into a toilet in 2001. I mean, the testimony was he grabbed her arm. He tried to pull her into
00:34:49.860 the stall. She rested away from him, and that was the end of it. The testimony was also that she
00:34:55.600 wasn't spending all those years thinking he tried to rape her. She thought he was going for a
00:34:59.140 consensual sex act in there, it didn't work out. Like, only after she saw the documentary did it
00:35:04.600 turn into he tried to rape me. Winter asked whether Brand intended any non-consensual assault,
00:35:09.880 sexual or otherwise. Of course not, he said. Brand said he did not have any recollection of
00:35:16.160 taking woman two by the arm. If you did, were you trying to force her to engage in non-consensual
00:35:21.180 activity? No, said Brand. The prosecutor in cross-examining on number two asked about this.
00:35:29.140 She said to Brand, asked him if he quite enjoyed having sex in toilets at the time.
00:35:36.040 He admitted, yes. 0.96
00:35:37.900 Carmi Jones asked, sex in toilets happened a lot, didn't it? 0.64
00:35:41.800 He answered, yes.
00:35:43.900 Carmi Jones asked if he remembered there being a struggle when he grabbed the woman's arm.
00:35:48.260 He said he did not recall.
00:35:50.220 So that's not great for Russell because we do have a woman who says she does recall.
00:35:55.060 complainant too says she remembers the whole thing and she testified to it in detail and
00:36:00.520 you know that's that's not great for him because they're going to be left with complainant twos
00:36:06.060 direct testimony um which is reiterated here in thought six by the bbc podcast watch listen
00:36:16.020 complainant number two said i like your t-shirt i want one to which he responded you can have it
00:36:21.160 And they told the jury that they said, you've got to give it a good wash first or words to that effect.
00:36:26.860 They then said that Russell Brand asked them where the toilet was in the office and they were happy to show him where it was.
00:36:30.980 They walked him down the corridor, but then, quote, his demeanor changed.
00:36:35.280 He grabbed my forearm and was trying to pull me into the bathroom.
00:36:39.000 Complainants who said that he was pleading with her, saying, come on, come on, trying to drag her into the bathroom.
00:36:44.540 When questioned by prosecutors, how hard was Russell Brand pulling you?
00:36:47.600 complainants who said it was hard it wasn't a gentle pull but i'm a strong sporty woman i'm
00:36:53.140 stronger than the average woman i was trying to quote wrench myself back into the corridor
00:36:57.540 the prosecution asked complainants who how were you responding to mr brand when he was saying
00:37:01.860 come on come on and trying to pull you into the bathroom and complainants who told the jury that
00:37:05.740 they said quote what are you doing are you mad let me go they also said repeatedly that they 0.73
00:37:10.480 were trying to wrench themselves free from his grip and that he looked like a wild-eyed maniac
00:37:14.920 So unfortunately for Russell, that's the detailed testimony on the other side. And then there's him saying he doesn't remember, but it doesn't sound like him. It is what it is. It's a attempted, attempted indecent assault. So the penalties for that would be far less than what we're dealing with on the others.
00:37:36.200 Let's get to complainant three. She is the one who alleged that she, um, she met her at a party in a bar in 2004. She says after a minute of conversation, he suddenly groped her breasts and then quote, dragged her into a bathroom stall, locked the door, stood on the toilet seat and forced her to give him oral sex.
00:37:58.020 Brand testified that he had recently visited that bathroom to jog his memory of the event. 0.79
00:38:04.100 We've seen a picture of the bathroom, a photo of it, so we all can see it now.
00:38:09.740 And he said seeing that bathroom jogged his memory of the event, he told the court that
00:38:14.460 he was told, quote, this bird here really wants to meet you, mate, when he got to the
00:38:21.720 party in Soho.
00:38:22.920 Sorry, it's just funny. And I'm also laughing at my inanity when it comes to trying to do a
00:38:29.860 British accent. The comedian described Woman 3 as being lithe, pixie-ish, and energetic.
00:38:36.740 Brand said that it was typical for women at that time to show visible, evident enthusiasm,
00:38:41.500 which was palpable when they met him. He said that he had invited the woman into the laboratory
00:38:46.600 to fool around and had never grabbed any woman's breasts without her consent because that was a
00:38:52.700 bad idea, quote, if your intention is to charm and seduce. Again, more generalized language. Here's
00:38:58.300 the exterior of the bathrooms available at that pub where they had the party in 2004. 0.81
00:39:06.700 So him saying, I wouldn't just grab some woman's boobs at the bar, though I would suggest we go 0.96
00:39:11.580 into a lav and get it on. And at this point, he was famous and was having success with that act. 0.97
00:39:18.800 When asked by his lawyer, Winter, whether the woman was happy to do so, he said yes.
00:39:24.120 Winter asked Brand whether there was any question about whether he grabbed the woman's breast
00:39:28.900 shortly after meeting her.
00:39:30.220 Brand said, absolutely not.
00:39:31.520 That is not the way I would have behaved.
00:39:33.440 It's obviously criminal, but it's obviously vulgar.
00:39:37.240 But again, this is generalized language.
00:39:39.740 He's saying, I wouldn't have.
00:39:41.940 You know, I wouldn't have.
00:39:43.180 It's not exactly the same as I didn't, which he may also have said, we're going off of
00:39:47.860 other people's reporting here, but it's just a notation that I see throughout the write-ups
00:39:53.880 of his testimony, generalized denials of no. And I mean, look, this is the problem in allowing
00:40:00.080 these women to come forward all these years later, 20 plus years later. I mean, would you have a
00:40:05.080 detailed recollection of whether, like, I think the best you could say in a lot of this is, hell
00:40:09.800 no, that I wouldn't do that. I don't, if you ask me, have you ever grabbed a man's crotch in a bar?
00:40:13.860 I would say, no, I've never done that. No. And then I might add, I wouldn't do that. It's not
00:40:20.480 my MO if I like a guy in a bar when I was younger. I don't know. I think Russell's got a difficult
00:40:26.300 challenge here since he's had sex with so many women and probably short of sex encounters with 0.94
00:40:32.040 so many women. Maybe in some of these instances, he's relegated to talking about his general
00:40:37.440 practice. That's not the way I would have behaved. Obviously criminal and obviously vulgar.
00:40:43.460 He said, although it was possible, here we go, 1.00
00:40:46.960 that he took his penis out of his pants 1.00
00:40:48.800 during that encounter in the bathroom, 1.00
00:40:51.100 the pair did not have oral sex. 0.67
00:40:53.240 And keep in mind, we told you yesterday,
00:40:54.900 this woman herself has been saying for years 0.97
00:40:57.040 they did not have oral sex. 0.94
00:40:59.440 What she said was that he tried, 1.00
00:41:01.880 he wanted her to perform oral sex on him, 1.00
00:41:05.000 but it didn't happen. 0.99
00:41:06.820 It wasn't until the Channel 4 documentary
00:41:08.680 that she changed her story.
00:41:10.780 And by the way, Complainant 1, too, same thing.
00:41:14.820 For 23 years, Complainant 1 has been telling a very different story.
00:41:24.080 She didn't say a syllable about it for 23 years, except good things. 0.97
00:41:28.100 And then comes, she sees the documentary, and now suddenly she's been raped by him. 0.91
00:41:33.620 This is such a difficult situation for any man. 1.00
00:41:36.780 So Russell says, it is possible he took out his penis during that encounter, but they did not have oral sex. 0.99
00:41:42.700 The best I can recollect, there was kissing, touching, fondling. 0.99
00:41:46.340 It's possible I would have taken my penis out of my trousers, he said, but because people were banging on the door, 0.99
00:41:52.440 the environment was unsuitable for him to, quote, get off, by which he meant achieving an orgasm. 0.99
00:41:58.880 That was the testimony he gave on complaint.
00:42:00.780 And three here was, in part, the cross by the prosecutor.
00:42:03.900 Riel Carmi-Jones asked Brand about this woman. When she put it to him that he groped her and
00:42:12.160 then dragged her into the toilet, he denied it. What were you inviting her to the toilet for,
00:42:17.320 asked Carmi-Jones, for fooling around? Brand admitted. Carmi-Jones asked if he recalled
00:42:23.220 telling the victim, don't be a spoil sport, come on, when she protested. Brand said, I don't
00:42:27.780 remember. All you were concerned about was getting yourself off, said the prosecutor.
00:42:32.480 The trial has previously heard from Woman 3, who told the court she had been drinking six or seven vodkas before meeting Brand.
00:42:40.660 The prosecutor suggested it was obvious that she'd been drinking.
00:42:44.000 Brand said, yeah, I suppose so.
00:42:45.760 I mean, this is good. That actually helps Russell's credibility with this jury.
00:42:48.840 Asked if that made her more vulnerable, Brand responded, I agree alcohol makes people less effective.
00:42:53.580 When the judge, Mr. Justice Benathan, or I don't know how you pronounce his last name, interjected to ask him to clarify, Brand said, effective human beings, it is a deleterious substance.
00:43:08.940 The prosecutor asked, what were you inviting her into the toilet for?
00:43:12.520 For fooling around, making out, he said.
00:43:15.060 Asked why he did not fool around in the bar.
00:43:17.620 Instead, Brand said, because it's better to do these things in private.
00:43:20.520 In the toilet?
00:43:21.900 Carmi Jones continued.
00:43:22.760 Brand said private was the best word to describe his reason for going there.
00:43:27.860 Brand was asked about using bathroom stalls for encounters.
00:43:30.380 He said going in and out of bathrooms did not attract a great deal of attention during
00:43:36.300 the time of the alleged offenses.
00:43:38.320 When asked by Carmi Jones if his behavior was normalized by his peers, he said in the
00:43:42.740 media in the early 2000s, people going in and out of bathrooms did not attract a great
00:43:46.080 deal of attention, maybe an eye roll or an eyebrow raise.
00:43:50.460 okay complainant four complainant four here is some this is for the bbc describing what this
00:44:04.620 woman alleges uh in her testimony her direct testimony which happened you know last week
00:44:11.920 13 they were inside a small room and came out into a smaller holding section
00:44:17.320 when quote he just leapt on me they described how russell brand lunged forwards and began to kiss
00:44:22.620 them they said quote it was a flash of lightning they said he wasn't alone there was a woman with
00:44:27.340 long dark hair with him and three other men when they were asked to describe the kiss they said it
00:44:31.360 was frenzied it was hard it was very very hard i would say it was sloppy and it was wet he was
00:44:36.840 kissing all down my neck and his hands were all over me he touched my bum my breasts my waist
00:44:41.680 he was pushing his body against me and i was up against the wall again they clarified it was rough
00:44:46.800 and then said, quote, it was violent.
00:44:49.060 At one point, they said they managed to put their hand up
00:44:51.060 between them and Russell Brand and push him off 1.00
00:44:53.040 and tell him to fuck off, 1.00
00:44:54.680 at which point he lunged backwards 1.00
00:44:56.100 and in a laughing way went ha-ha
00:44:57.980 and looked at the other people who were around.
00:45:00.080 Complainant number four told the jury
00:45:01.420 that not one of the other people,
00:45:03.060 the women or the three men that they said were there,
00:45:05.020 stepped in or said anything
00:45:06.180 during the time they alleged
00:45:07.460 they were assaulted by Russell Brand.
00:45:10.380 So this allegedly happened at a radio station
00:45:13.580 many, many moons ago, back in 2004 or 2005, when the woman was in her 20s.
00:45:20.580 Let me give you a feel for how she was cross-examined.
00:45:24.340 Again, described by the BBC in SOT 14.
00:45:28.440 But the defense was offering, how do you even know it was Russell Brand?
00:45:31.340 You didn't check with anybody, who is it?
00:45:33.180 You didn't say to somebody, this has just happened to me, who can corroborate your account?
00:45:37.380 And complaint number four said, I knew who it was because I watched him on Big Brother.
00:45:40.020 They said, I watched him. I knew who it was immediately when it happened.
00:45:43.880 I'm absolutely sure that it was Russell Brand.
00:45:46.140 The defense continued saying, in one statement, you said that there were three men there and one woman.
00:45:50.340 In another statement, you said there were four men there and one woman.
00:45:53.320 And Complainant 4 said, I can't exactly remember when I gave the account saying there were four men there.
00:45:57.880 I remember there being three men and one woman.
00:45:59.680 And the defense said, well, then that's corroborating witnesses.
00:46:02.460 That's people who would have come forward and backed up what you had to say.
00:46:05.420 In fact, wasn't one of them a member of staff at the place where you worked?
00:46:08.400 And this is where Complainant 4 really did get quite emotional. They were crying and having difficulty catching their breath, saying, this man was mauling me and no one did anything. I looked at the woman. I was pleading with her, hoping she'd step in, but she didn't.
00:46:22.300 and the defense is using the fact that there were witnesses none of whom intervened in this public
00:46:30.000 encounter to make the point that how bad could this have been like was that you really want us
00:46:34.820 to believe that you were in the midst of a sexual assault and you had all these eyewitnesses and
00:46:38.460 nobody fluttered an eyelid like that that's not plausible and the witness got upset saying it is
00:46:45.320 plausible it did happen and the fact that they didn't intervene upset me here is the defense
00:46:50.020 questioning Brand about woman four. Uh, okay. He asked the defendant, in your view, jumping on a
00:46:57.420 woman and sloppily kissing her, does that turn you on sexually? No, replied Brand. The defense asked,
00:47:03.440 is that likely to lead to any sexual intercourse with a woman? No, said Brand. Winter then asked,
00:47:08.720 did you do what she said you did? To which Brand replied, no. The cross-examination by the
00:47:15.640 prosecution on that went as follows. These are just highlights. I'm not giving you the whole
00:47:19.580 thing because we haven't, this all just happened hours ago. So we're doing our best to pull
00:47:23.660 together how it went for you. Reserve my right to update these descriptions as the week goes on
00:47:29.300 and we get a better handle. Carmi Jones asked him, you don't remember complaint at four at all?
00:47:34.680 Brand said he did not. The prosecutor added, are you being selective with your memory?
00:47:39.360 Brand said he was doing his best to cooperate, to try to remember what happened in the period
00:47:43.540 being discussed. Carmi Jones said, it wouldn't have troubled you to engage with a woman in the
00:47:48.060 workplace to engage in sexual activity. Brand replied, in private. So he's admitting he would
00:47:53.680 have, but contesting this woman's allegation, which was that it was in public. Okay, moving on
00:48:01.860 to complainant five, and this is the most disturbing case out of all of them because it is
00:48:08.500 very graphic and the details are very X-rated and have had me saying words on the air. I never
00:48:13.960 thought I would, like yesterday. Complainant five, this is a complex one, agreed she was
00:48:22.980 obsessed with Russell Brand. She idolized him. She had the hots for him. She went to see him
00:48:29.400 perform at a show and went backstage immediately after, got called back and went with another woman 1.00
00:48:36.000 and immediately a threesome began. The first thing she did was engage in a sex act on Russell 1.00
00:48:43.420 Brand and here is, here is, okay. Okay. So then, well, let me go sequentially. That's how they 0.98
00:48:53.200 met. She performed a sex act on him backstage. Another friend gave him a blow job and she was 0.99
00:48:58.700 in the back door doing things back there. The next time they got together, she came over to 0.98
00:49:05.700 Russell Brand's house by his invitation and she showed up and she knew that they'd be having sex 0.99
00:49:09.480 and she agrees she willingly had vaginal sex with him. 0.99
00:49:12.700 She says he then flipped her over 1.00
00:49:14.060 and forced anal sex on her and took off his condom 1.00
00:49:16.700 and then treated her badly when it was over, 1.00
00:49:19.640 like scolded her for the mess that was on the bed
00:49:21.680 and kind of walked out.
00:49:23.400 He denies this.
00:49:25.300 He says she's the one who introduced any backdoor action
00:49:28.580 given what she did at that backstage encounter they had
00:49:32.440 within 10 seconds of knowing him
00:49:34.220 and that then there was more discussion 0.98
00:49:36.160 about um anal sex prior to the moment that they did it that they'd been teasing each other about 0.98
00:49:42.380 it that she said she was curious about and so on and that when they actually did it it was totally 0.97
00:49:46.800 consensual like he did not do that against her will they had been teasing and titillating and
00:49:52.240 building up to it and there was a reason he did that with her um so here is how that went his
00:50:00.880 lawyer asked him about Complainant 5. He told the court he had a striking and memorable sexual
00:50:07.600 encounter with that woman in his dressing room before the alleged incident in which he claims 0.93
00:50:13.900 she was raped. He testified that the complainant performed oral sex on his anus straight away 1.00
00:50:19.840 without any introduction. That's a quote. I mean, think about what we're dealing with here. 1.00
00:50:24.420 He said the complainant performed oral activity on the backside of me. He added,
00:50:29.720 nobody has ever done that to me straight away without any introduction. He said it was
00:50:37.260 very striking and memorable, even for someone with my experience. He said he found it extremely
00:50:43.780 exciting. I'm not done. We got to do the rest of the complaint at five and we'll do that right
00:50:50.080 after this break. Okay. And then after we're done, we'll bring in Mark Halperin. What a day.
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00:53:37.840 We were in the midst of discussing complainant number five
00:53:41.640 and her allegations that she went to Russell Brand's house
00:53:46.300 after having had an interlude with him backstage
00:53:49.040 and that while she intended to have sex with him, 0.99
00:53:52.660 she did not intend to have anal sex with him 0.98
00:53:56.360 and that he allegedly forced it on her, something he denies. 0.95
00:54:01.040 This is Russell now speaking to his lawyer, Ian Winter.
00:54:07.080 When last we left off, he had testified that
00:54:10.060 within 10 seconds of meeting this woman, 0.86
00:54:13.120 she was performing a sex act on his backside, backstage at one of his events. And then he 0.99
00:54:23.160 invited her to come over another separate time. He said they exchanged numbers, asked what he
00:54:29.740 meant. Oh, okay. So here's what you need to know. Apparently he saved her number in his phone
00:54:38.260 with a T next to it, as well as an AP. He had both the letter T and then separately the letters
00:54:46.560 AP. And he also put an asterisk next to it, which he told the court meant never forget this
00:54:57.240 individual. This is a memorable encounter. Brand said that he was interested in kinky sex
00:55:04.840 and told the court that Woman 5 later agreed to go to his house.
00:55:09.280 The Guardian reports that he had saved the initials AP 0.93
00:55:12.640 and he told the court that that meant anal play.
00:55:17.240 The UK Times reports that Brand explained the T 0.95
00:55:21.200 by telling the court it denotes the word tart,
00:55:25.760 followed by her name.
00:55:28.460 Brand told jurors that he was enthusiastic
00:55:31.040 about meeting her again.
00:55:32.520 He told the court he invited her to his flat where they had consensual sex.
00:55:36.860 When asked by Winter, his lawyer, whether he had used a condom, Brand said he did.
00:55:41.240 Recall Complain of Five claims that he did not while he was performing the objectionable act.
00:55:48.600 He said he generally used condoms in first sexual encounters, particularly and especially if the partner wants that. 0.97
00:55:55.320 Winter asked Brand whether they moved on to anal sex. 0.65
00:55:57.980 Brand told the court that they did and that the woman said it was her first time. 0.92
00:56:02.380 Winter asked Brand whether the woman expressed any reluctance, to which Brand replied, coyness, one might say.
00:56:10.260 Winter continued, did you say anything about seeking to persuade her?
00:56:14.140 Brand replied that he did, telling the court he said, quote, something along the lines of, you'll love it.
00:56:20.060 Brand told the court that the woman consented to continuing sex without a condom, so he is admitting that he took the condom off.
00:56:28.200 Brand said the woman had not said no or told him to stop as they were having sex.
00:56:33.380 She testified that she did so repeatedly.
00:56:35.580 And once she came forward with this allegation, which was, again, after the documentary and not before, she told everybody she talked to about it that she had said no.
00:56:44.780 But that, again, was only a recent story brought forth by the documentary.
00:56:49.400 But since she started telling the story, she has been saying that she said no during the middle of that act.
00:56:54.460 He is denying that.
00:56:57.440 Did she tell you to stop or that she didn't want to proceed in that way, asked Ian Winter.
00:57:02.300 Brand replied, no.
00:57:03.820 Did you know that she had been in some pain following the incident?
00:57:07.480 I did not.
00:57:09.180 Now the prosecution gets up and asks him, okay, oh, because Brand had testified it was a marvelous night when he had this threesome with complainant number five and another woman backstage at Hammersmith Apollo in 2009.
00:57:23.640 That was the first encounter.
00:57:24.640 By the way, we did go back. The male who testified that Bran wanted to get out of Dodge the next morning quickly, that was indeed in response to complainant one, the woman who invited him back to her hotel room after midnight.
00:57:37.580 He did testify that it was after that interlude, which was a cabaret performed by this man and by Russell on the night of a labor party.
00:57:46.940 So the cabaret was what was throwing me off, but I guess it was a combined event where labor had
00:57:51.740 some event and then these guys performed. So in any event, there you have it. It was after
00:57:56.940 complaint one that a man testified he, Russell, the next day seemed to want to get at a dodge,
00:58:03.000 which is why Russell's lawyer was pressing like, you gave her your email. You said you wanted her
00:58:08.160 to meet your mom. Were you in any hurry to leave? No, no, I wasn't. Okay. So back to complaint
00:58:12.660 at five. Brand had said it was a marvelous night when he had that threesome. One of the women
00:58:17.320 accused him, okay, the anal rape, yes. Carmi Jones put it to Russell Brand that this was an example 0.98
00:58:22.880 of Brand never leaving without a conquest because the woman had refused to have full sex with him 0.99
00:58:29.000 backstage. Brand replied, that actually went down as quite a marvelous night by the criteria
00:58:35.000 of the time. I mean, you've got one strange woman in the front, one strange woman in the back. I'm
00:58:41.840 not sure any man would be demanding a whole lot more in the field of sexual encounters for the
00:58:48.060 evening. Brand denied that he was cruel when he allegedly asked woman five to brush her teeth
00:58:53.840 before having sex with her. Do you recall this? Witness five, complainant five claimed that when
00:58:59.300 she got there to his house, she, she wanted him to take a shower. She, or he wanted her to take
00:59:07.040 a shower. He wanted her to brush her teeth. She didn't like that. She felt like this was
00:59:12.720 somehow demeaning to her and she didn't know what he was implying. So the prosecution brought it up.
00:59:21.840 Was it cruel when you told her to brush her teeth? Russell responds, and by the way,
00:59:26.880 this first line is entirely true. Quote, cruel means deliberate malicious intention
00:59:32.040 to harm. I completely agree with that. It's like, I've told you this before, but 0.66
00:59:38.020 when I was going through my separation from my first husband, I was using my therapist,
00:59:44.220 and I love this lady. She was so wonderful, my lady, Amy. And she was like, well, have you told
00:59:48.800 him that you think this thing or that you think that thing at the time? And I was like, that's
00:59:53.260 mean. I'm not going to say that to him. That's mean. And she said, meanness is saying something
00:59:59.520 with the intention to hurt the other person. Saying something that the person might not like
01:00:04.740 to hear, but that is true. And you're saying it for a purpose other than to hurt. That's not
01:00:11.240 meanness. That's honest communication that could actually advance your relationship and your
01:00:15.660 connection. And so I mean, like no one had ever framed it to me like that before. And it was
01:00:20.320 actually really true. And so, you know, it's like meanness is when you're trying to hurt.
01:00:27.660 if you just have commentary, whether it's to a partner, a friend, a coworker, or you and me
01:00:37.040 sitting here while I do this show, that's unflattering or not complimentary. It's not
01:00:44.840 mean if it's true and it's intended for the purpose of whatever, advancing your relationship
01:00:52.660 with the person, making the person perform better, doing social commentary, what have you. This is
01:00:58.560 actually a very true statement. Cruel means deliberate malicious intention to harm. And then
01:01:02.820 he goes on to say, I agree that it was not kind, he told the court, addressing his alleged request
01:01:08.480 for her to brush her teeth. Riel Carmi Jones, the prosecutor, suggested asking her to brush her
01:01:13.560 teeth was a ploy to put her in a place of subservience. Okay, I don't, why is she going
01:01:21.480 here. Like, what is this? I would think that the anal rape would be the highlight and not the
01:01:26.920 teeth brushing. Brand said that, alleged, Brand said that if he did ask someone to brush their 0.90
01:01:32.800 teeth, it would have simply been for them to, quote, refresh their breath. The whole action
01:01:37.960 was rough and violent and just about your pleasure, wasn't it? Asked the prosecutor.
01:01:43.380 Brand, it potentially was about my pleasure, but it was not rough or violent. Denied that
01:01:49.520 complainant five was, quote, begging him to stop, acknowledged that he took off a condom during sex
01:01:54.760 but said the woman had agreed to it. I mean, that's helpful to his credibility because he
01:01:59.420 didn't have to admit to that. It's, you know, her word versus his. So he said, she said,
01:02:05.480 but he's giving her that point that he did take it off. The prosecutor asked Brand why he did not
01:02:10.880 reach out to woman five when she told him that he had treated her. Oh, because after the fact,
01:02:15.200 they had a text exchange in which he said he wanted to see her because he wanted to do more
01:02:21.660 to her. I can't remember the exact quote, but it was something like, I want to push you further.
01:02:28.160 And she said, you pushed me plenty far enough. You treated me like an animal. And she said that
01:02:33.740 he then replied, sorry, no one has seen that text exchange. It comes from the woman's memory only.
01:02:40.440 So now he's getting asked about it, saying, why didn't you reach out to woman five when she
01:02:47.500 texted you that you had treated her like an animal? Brand said he would now, but did not
01:02:54.040 at the time. He said he apologized in a text, so he's admitting that, adding, if someone is upset
01:03:00.560 and feels they have been treated badly, I do and would apologize. So again, it's not actually an
01:03:05.940 admission that he did that exact one. It's that that would be my general practice. When asked if
01:03:10.280 the woman was, quote, just another conquest in his goal to sleep with 5,000 women, which Brand had
01:03:15.220 denied saying, but a friend testified he had said that, Brand replied, I really don't know the
01:03:22.200 number, but it's difficult to dispute that that is how I conducted myself in the pursuit of willing
01:03:27.500 sexual partners. Then there was, last but not least, a complainant six. This involved a woman
01:03:36.920 who said she met Brand while working on a project for Channel 4 in 2009. This is the woman who said
01:03:43.940 she was told to give him a massage by somebody else on his shoulders and that he put his head 0.99
01:03:49.720 around her groin area, and she didn't much appreciate that. And this is how his lawyer
01:03:59.840 questioned him. Let's see. Winter said, are you guilty or innocent of these allegations?
01:04:11.020 And Brand said, I'm innocent. And there's nothing that I have in front of me that speaks to how
01:04:16.120 the prosecution crossed him. That was the direct exam question by his lawyer. Are you guilty,
01:04:23.200 you're innocent? I'm innocent. And it looks like either there was no cross on this specific witness
01:04:29.560 or it just didn't make the press yet or it didn't make its way in front of me, so I don't have any
01:04:33.840 other information to you. So there is one other detail that you should know about Complaintant
01:04:42.780 five, the one with the backdoor complaint. Russell testified today that after their
01:04:50.960 alleged encounter, he believes they sat and watched TV together, which is diametrically
01:04:59.600 opposed from her testimony that he got up, he was like, look what you did, because there was
01:05:05.660 a mess all over the bed, ordered her to clean it up and left. His testimony was, no, they actually
01:05:11.500 hung out and may have watched TV together, which is not exactly the behavior of someone who has
01:05:16.920 just committed a rape. So it'll be up to the jury to decide whose version they believe.
01:05:25.100 Court has ended for the day and will resume tomorrow as the defense will continue its case.
01:05:30.640 It looks like Russell's testimony is done, we believe. Perhaps I'm wrong and they'll pick up
01:05:36.340 with a bit more redirect or overnight they'll think of another thing they needed to raise
01:05:40.420 uncrossed, but we believe his testimony is done and that the defense will continue with its case.
01:05:45.920 And this case will probably go to the jury rather, rather soon, as opposed to being an eight to nine
01:05:52.580 week trial, as the prosecution had initially said. Oh, my team finding just a bit more on
01:05:56.820 complainant six and what happened. Um, okay, let's see. Uh, upon cross-examination by the prosecution,
01:06:06.380 Let's see.
01:06:07.740 Brand agreed his behavior that day.
01:06:11.080 Oh, because they were at Channel 4
01:06:12.800 and they were doing like a taping
01:06:14.300 and he was reportedly refusing to do anything
01:06:17.980 unless he got his massage.
01:06:19.340 So somebody told this woman who worked there 0.95
01:06:21.160 to give him the massage 0.86
01:06:22.140 and he allegedly put his head near her groin
01:06:24.140 and like sniffed was the allegation.
01:06:26.760 Again, you heard, are you guilty or innocent?
01:06:28.480 I'm innocent.
01:06:29.200 She says he did this thing.
01:06:31.220 Brand agreed that his behavior that day,
01:06:32.900 refusing to complete the recording
01:06:34.680 was, quote, petulant and childish, saying it doesn't sound like good behavior.
01:06:39.680 Asked if he remembers asking for a massage via his two male colleagues,
01:06:43.680 Brand says he does not, adding, quote, it doesn't really make sense.
01:06:46.580 He tells the jury he, quote, can't see what benefit would be derived
01:06:50.600 from putting his head in the woman's lap.
01:06:53.380 Asked by the prosecutor if he had found it funny, Brand responds,
01:06:56.980 I don't remember. I don't think it's funny now.
01:06:59.360 He tells the court he did not sexually assault the woman.
01:07:01.700 Okay, so that's, in sum and substance, the end of the back and forth.
01:07:05.680 Russell held his own, was not pushed into, you know, too many damning admissions, gave
01:07:10.520 enough to look like, in part at least, a truth teller, did not wear the condom during that
01:07:15.980 one act, did behave badly around women, you know, I'm not proud of what I did, did like 0.78
01:07:21.300 having sex in bathrooms, all that, found the backdoor action I got backstage with Complainant 0.99
01:07:27.920 five, extremely exciting, did program her in as a TART and an anal participant. I mean, 1.00
01:07:36.420 those are not great admissions for him, but in a way they help him because it makes him look like
01:07:40.160 he's a truth teller and is drawing the line at accusations of non-consent. But the women 0.72
01:07:48.020 had free reign in that courtroom and have spent the past three weeks painting him as a crazy 1.00
01:07:53.500 rapist who was, as I said last Thursday, running around like a male dog around a bunch of female 1.00
01:08:01.240 dogs in heat. You know, like he couldn't get enough, couldn't hear the word no. Within moments 0.95
01:08:07.280 of meeting you would whip it out and try to have sex with you. You know, like almost like it's just 0.99
01:08:11.440 dangerous to be around this guy. He's trying to grab women and drag them into bathrooms. He's
01:08:15.720 filling them up at bars. He doesn't care if there are witnesses. He doesn't care if they say no.
01:08:19.780 This is the prosecution's case. He was on some conquest to bang 5,000 women within a certain time. He talked about sex ad nauseum in his comedy routines in very vile and vulgar terms, not just in his comedy routines, when he gave interviews and, you know, in his personal life, his personal assistant talking about how he loved to be naked all the time. 0.79
01:08:40.420 he was asking me, can I have sex again soon? You know, obsessed. And Russell has painted that 0.95
01:08:46.380 picture of himself in his own book and in part on the stand. The line he has been drawing is
01:08:52.040 never without consent. And also to me, he made the point, you know, to be honest, I didn't need
01:08:59.000 to do it with women who weren't consenting. I had thousands of women who did want to consent.
01:09:05.400 like that was not a problem for me. I had lots of women throwing themselves at me and I did not 0.97
01:09:11.160 need to force anybody to do anything. And some of these women, you know, were obsessed with Russell,
01:09:17.160 like complain at five. And there is at least a plausible case to be made that she did these
01:09:22.340 things she felt gross about after the fact because it was Russell Brand and she was excited and she
01:09:26.080 didn't want to reject him and she didn't want to look like a spoil sport. And the jury will get to
01:09:32.260 make the decision about whether that's true. Okay. Let's keep going. I'm going to bring Mark
01:09:36.800 in in one minute, but I just want to spend a minute on something else that's in the news.
01:09:41.600 Okay. And it has to do with Jennifer Lawrence, the amazing Hollywood actress who of course is
01:09:49.860 best known for, um, is it silver bullet playbook? Why am I not remembering the name of that? But
01:09:55.300 she's best known for the hunger, hunger games, silver, silver linings playbook, um, with Bradley
01:09:59.680 Cooper and The Hunger Games is how most people best know her. She's incredible. She's extremely
01:10:06.160 talented. She's very likable. If you see her in interviews, she's just completely charming.
01:10:10.880 And she is stunning, stunning. Well, she's on the cover of New York Magazine right now.
01:10:17.520 And the headline that is everywhere is she gets real about wanting plastic surgery 0.99
01:10:23.820 when she gets older
01:10:27.120 and she is looking forward to at some point
01:10:30.040 getting a facelift.
01:10:32.480 They say that it's The Cut,
01:10:35.120 which is an offshoot of New York Magazine. 1.00
01:10:36.940 She's had a boob job 1.00
01:10:37.980 and one day plans to get a facelift. 0.99
01:10:40.600 But look at this picture. 0.75
01:10:44.120 If I didn't tell you that that was Jennifer Lawrence,
01:10:47.600 you probably wouldn't know it was her.
01:10:50.320 She looks completely unrecognizable.
01:10:53.820 She does not look like herself.
01:10:56.760 And very clearly, the reason for that is she has had her upper eyelids done.
01:11:02.760 Now, she is only 36 years old.
01:11:07.840 She appears to have had this procedure at 36, which is very young for something like that.
01:11:14.380 But the important point here is we have a Jennifer Grey situation where a very famous actress has done something so dramatic to her looks, clearly via a cosmetic surgeon, though she's not copying to that surgery in this interview, that she is now no longer recognizable.
01:11:34.640 Here's Jennifer Grey of Dirty Dancing and Ferris Bueller's Day Off, et cetera.
01:11:39.260 When she got that nose job, you could not tell it was Jennifer Grey. 0.94
01:11:42.960 She had, if she wanted to go into the witness protection program, they could not have done a better job of hiding her identity.
01:11:49.720 And now one of the most famous, beautiful, stunning, talented actresses in Hollywood has done it again, very clearly.
01:12:00.220 Again, this is not one that she's admitted to.
01:12:02.700 Again, she's reportedly admitted to a boob job and to, quote, baby Botox.
01:12:07.600 She told Vogue that last September, saying, I can't really get very much done.
01:12:11.600 I need to have movement in my face so I get baby Botox, but I can't do a lot.
01:12:16.260 She listed her reliance on facials, explaining if my skin is going to be a little saggier
01:12:20.500 than I'd like, at least it looks dewy and pretty.
01:12:22.920 She also gave an interview to Vogue in which she denied, is it buckle, fat removal?
01:12:29.420 It's either buckle or buccal.
01:12:31.260 She's open about the plastic surgery on her mind, they wrote, in this era of secret tweakments
01:12:37.580 and deep plane facelifts.
01:12:39.700 Quote, oh, I'm really nervous about those fat transfers,
01:12:42.480 but I support other people doing them
01:12:43.880 because I want to continue to watch and see what happens.
01:12:46.300 I don't know about that, though, she said.
01:12:47.580 I mean, I'd love to have a buckle fat removal.
01:12:50.940 I can't because everybody would know,
01:12:52.820 but just know that I do want that.
01:12:55.880 So this isn't about that, though.
01:12:57.540 This is about the eyes, the windows to the soul,
01:13:00.180 and how dramatically she has changed
01:13:03.180 one of the most beautiful faces in America.
01:13:06.200 And let me tell you, she's not the first one to so dramatically change her face that it is now making national news.
01:13:16.940 Type in Jennifer Lawrence and Google it.
01:13:18.920 Go on Twitter and type in her name on the search bar and see what comes up.
01:13:24.300 I mean, everybody is stunned.
01:13:27.180 They cannot believe she's done it.
01:13:30.280 And it reminds me of what Renee Zellweger did to her eyes. 0.89
01:13:35.600 She was another one, just like Jennifer Lawrence, who was kind of famous for her hooded eyes, and she became super well-known for having them, and then she clearly got the eyelids done.
01:13:50.080 There's nothing wrong with that. 1.00
01:13:51.340 Women do it. 1.00
01:13:51.940 I'm not judging. 1.00
01:13:53.300 I'm saying they went too far to where, when Renee Zellweger first got that done, she looked unrecognizable.
01:14:03.700 And guess what?
01:14:05.600 There's pretty good word on the street. She had to go to another plastic surgeon to add fat back into her eyelids to correct another surgeon's overcorrection, which is why Renee Zellweger again looks like Renee Zellweger and Jennifer Lawrence. 0.84
01:14:25.380 I am begging you to do the same thing. Why is, like, with a surgical invention always considered
01:14:36.200 better than without a surgical intervention? I realize it's individual choice, and I don't judge
01:14:41.580 any woman who wants to do something to her face. That's the beauty of modern cosmetic surgery.
01:14:47.160 But less is more, my friends. Less is more. Tweaks, like she said in that interview,
01:14:54.180 not massive changes that will set tongues wagging from coast to coast.
01:15:01.040 It's kind of like what's happening with the GLP-1s right now.
01:15:05.720 You know, very clearly, in my view, the Kardashians, like Kim, are using GLP-1s.
01:15:12.040 But I've got to say, Kim Kardashian looks amazing.
01:15:14.820 She's always been the prettiest Kardashian. 0.71
01:15:17.800 And her body looks amazing.
01:15:19.380 She's got all those curves, which clearly she's had manipulated with the flat abs. 0.99
01:15:23.040 that's how you do it. Cosmetically, you had, she clearly had fat injected like into her rear end 1.00
01:15:27.680 and whatever. I don't know exactly how she's done it, but that rear end is not normal or natural 1.00
01:15:32.680 or neither are the boobs, but she's got the flat stomach. And so she clearly has, in my view, 1.00
01:15:37.220 been on a GLP-1, but she looks good. She didn't overdo it. I don't know if it's a dosage thing
01:15:42.880 or what, but she doesn't look anorexic. She doesn't look unwell. But all these celebrities
01:15:49.660 like Margot Robbie. She looks skeletal. We've talked about that actress. God, I mean, Charlize 0.98
01:15:57.520 Theron while I'm on it, while I'm on the cast of Bombshell, she looks skeletal. What's the name of
01:16:03.840 that actress? What is it? Who's the actress who's like, she's attacking me back now. I can't remember
01:16:10.740 her name. She starred in House. I said she looks skeletal. What is it? Yeah, Olivia Wilde. She too
01:16:19.220 looks skeletal, skeletal with like the deep, like orbital sockets, like thin, I think we can 0.99
01:16:28.380 universally agree is generally considered attractive as opposed to skeletal, which is not.
01:16:35.460 I'm just like really concerned. I think a lot of these people have like an unwellness that then
01:16:40.260 explodes when they get into Hollywood and maybe it's been kept under wraps or like it's been
01:16:46.000 controlled because there wasn't such a drug to let you go full anorexic, but who's still
01:16:52.620 prescribing them, the GLP-1s, now that they are skeletal? They clearly look anorexic, not to
01:16:58.980 mention what's going on with Ariana Grande, who of course looks deeply unwell. On the plastic
01:17:06.620 surgery front, it wasn't that long ago that we were talking about Demi Moore, whose face looked
01:17:12.800 so drastically manipulated at that runway show. Remember that we spent like a long time talking
01:17:23.360 about how alarmed we were. Clearly she had had somebody give her, I don't know, facelift or like
01:17:28.180 do her lips. I don't even know what happened that it, again, everybody was talking about it. She
01:17:35.340 had it undone. It's clearly been reversed. So there's hope after these massively botched
01:17:41.800 procedures, or if they're not botched, they're just far too aggressive. I don't know. It's no
01:17:48.020 accident to me that a lot of these are happening in the entertainment industry where there's so
01:17:53.220 much scrutiny on your looks. It's sad, really. And I don't know. I think there was something
01:18:01.160 that Jennifer Lawrence, oh gosh, what did she say? Do I have that? She had said something about her
01:18:09.360 mom. Is that in today's packet, you guys? Yes. Oh, it's on camera. Okay, good. So it's in SOT 35.
01:18:19.080 Now, listen to Jennifer Lawrence talking. Oh, you know why? Because she went on the sex podcast.
01:18:24.140 Good Lord. And she revealed something. She was talking about some of the brutal acting feedback
01:18:30.020 she got from her own mom. And this is very telling. Listen here, SOT 35.
01:18:36.640 What is the most brutal piece of acting feedback you have ever gotten in your career?
01:18:41.380 My mom at the premiere of The Hunger Games said she could tell in every scene when I had my period.
01:18:48.960 Water retention, I guess.
01:18:51.260 Imagine a day of me being on camera that that doesn't go through my mind.
01:18:55.620 You now, like, will never film when you're on your period.
01:18:58.240 You're like, I'm so scarred. Don't put me on camera.
01:19:01.020 Yeah. OK, so, I mean, that is very telling that the mother would make such a cutting comment to her own child who's starring in The Hunger Games and crushing it.
01:19:10.520 I mean, like what mother would say anything other than, oh, my God, you're incredible, honey.
01:19:15.520 I'm in awe of your talent and how stunning you looked in every scene, which is true.
01:19:20.220 um like look it's just my own theory that that's where the insecurity starts and continues not
01:19:29.300 withstanding the fact that you're now an oscar winner you you could star in any film of your
01:19:34.580 choice you are absolutely still the toast of the town i don't know why you'd make such a drastic 0.98
01:19:41.340 decision like this please please fix it and speaking of the disgusting sex podcaster um
01:19:48.900 Um, she put out a promo for this interview with Jennifer Lawrence, which is just downright bizarre and seems to be addressing her critics who absolutely include yours truly.
01:20:01.840 But by no means is it limited to me, who have been ripping on her disgusting, filthy, evil messages to the young women of America, encouraging them to give it up anally on the first date, encouraging them, saying she's proud of the people who have had threesomes, talking about some young woman who is taking two D's in the V or possibly in the V and the A at the same time.
01:20:27.260 like this is something to celebrate and this is a great story she wants to share with everyone 0.52
01:20:31.740 this is her messaging this is her imprint on american young women and now i guess 0.95
01:20:39.200 she's going to clean it up with the following comment in her promo i was a big slut but i'm 0.98
01:20:45.820 not anymore there's always going to be a part of me that's sloppy and dirty but i like that 0.99
01:20:50.860 with all the other parts of myself can you say the same about yourself fucker can you forgive 0.99
01:20:56.160 are you any good at that okay should we start the interview okay so it's a silver linings playbook 0.98
01:21:05.620 reference and she also is clearly using it to try to rehabilitate herself and it's a fail
01:21:12.380 because while it's true that this woman now is married with a new baby and hopefully is not
01:21:20.380 still whoring around as she spent her entire young adulthood doing. She's in her 30s. This is not 0.97
01:21:27.220 somebody who's 20. What about all the women she has coaxed and cajoled and encouraged into those
01:21:36.580 very self-harming behaviors? What about them, Alex? Proud of that? How do you get that back?
01:21:46.540 I'll tell you how.
01:21:47.920 It's between you and your priest in a pew or a confessional box.
01:21:53.060 Good luck to you.
01:21:54.820 We're going to take a quick break.
01:21:55.920 When we come back, Mark Halpern's here on some amazing breaking news stories on the
01:22:00.740 presidential or the political campaign trail, including a confirmation of the dirtiest of
01:22:06.960 dirty tricks in the Alaska Senate race.
01:22:10.580 Stand by.
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01:24:07.160 I have my very own channel on Sirius XM.
01:24:09.960 It's called the Megyn Kelly channel,
01:24:11.380 and it is where you will hear the truth,
01:24:13.060 unfiltered, with no agenda, and no apologies.
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01:24:32.100 we've got some shock new polls from the new york times in key senate races uh first of all the
01:24:42.920 democrat annie andrews is now tied with the republican darlene graham in south carolina
01:24:48.540 that's not great and there's news in minnesota too where republicans had really been hoping that 0.98
01:24:55.340 michelle tafoya the well-liked former sports journalist could potentially beat the loon 0.99
01:25:00.800 who's currently the lieutenant governor, Peggy Flanagan, in the race to take over the Senate 1.00
01:25:06.020 seat there. But this New York Times poll, and even they are admitting it's probably an outliner,
01:25:13.560 outlier is showing Flanagan up by 14 points over Tafoya. I call bullshit on that one. 0.99
01:25:22.140 Joining me now is Mark Halperin. He is the host of Next Up with Mark Halperin on the MK Media 0.99
01:25:26.420 podcast network. Go and subscribe to NextUp right now so that you sound smarter than you are on all
01:25:32.280 things politics. You can check out on YouTube as well. Mark, welcome back. So Darlene Graham,
01:25:39.360 South Carolina is now tied. Is that real? I think it is based on the fact that I've talked to
01:25:45.460 Republicans for a long time. I had Andy Andrews, the Democrat, on my show on NextUp a few months
01:25:49.900 ago, and I've been tracking it closely. And it's a strange confluence besides the overall negative
01:25:55.300 environment for republicans um senator graham is not a strong candidate and annie andrews is
01:26:02.300 and she's run a very strong race the governor's race there is also close with a black democratic
01:26:07.320 nominee there and that's going to help with turnout um so i i do i still wouldn't go to
01:26:12.520 ladbrooks and put it all down on the democrat but i wouldn't be the least bit surprised if she won
01:26:16.740 Oh, my Lord. I mean, if she loses, that one for sure is going to be blamed on Trump because the
01:26:26.380 only reason Darlene Graham is the senator from South Carolina is because her brother died.
01:26:30.340 Trump put her, got her put into his seat and then said she's going to have to be the candidate. We 0.99
01:26:35.940 want her to be the candidate to actually run. A lot of people said, OK, she can finish out 1.00
01:26:39.560 Lindsay's term. You know, we can live with that as the sister, the sudden death. But like to 0.94
01:26:43.500 actually make her the candidate was always risky it happened because trump made it happen yeah
01:26:48.100 unambiguously you know the president will probably be blamed for some other stuff that aren't is
01:26:52.180 necessarily his fault this one's his fault and uh it you know no one should be surprised
01:26:58.620 you know she had that iconic moment in the debate where she said she didn't really know
01:27:03.400 much about foreign policy and national security it's not her thing it's not her thing do i look
01:27:08.040 too skeletal. You look good. And you look good. Very good. Don't change a thing. I don't want to
01:27:14.680 don't want to get too skeletal on you because I know you don't like that. I'm not going to pull
01:27:17.660 a Trump and start talking about your rear end or my iron shoulders. You know, she's not running 1.00
01:27:24.400 good campaign. She's barely raised any money. She's done to do a lot of campaigning of campaigning. 1.00
01:27:29.780 She's only agreed to one debate. And there's all sorts of reasons. The confluence of factors. Again,
01:27:35.680 she's a weak candidate and andrews is a strong candidate the democrats are having a moment and 0.70
01:27:40.140 um and the black vote you know it just it's just an iron law of southern politics if the democrats
01:27:45.720 can find a way to swell the turnout from black voters and make it five percent more of the
01:27:50.020 overall turnout it they go from having no chance to win to having almost no chance to lose 1.00
01:27:54.660 and um she may be doing that again in conjunction with the gubernatorial nominee
01:27:58.800 good gracious um i want to tell you this annie andrews the democrat currently showing a 26
01:28:05.280 chance to win on the prediction market, Calci. Darlene Graham's at 74%. That's double
01:28:11.660 from the beginning of the month for Andrews when traders had her at just 12%, or sorry, 13%. So
01:28:17.980 she's doing better on the Calci market, but they haven't factored in this latest poll.
01:28:24.420 By the way, our sponsor, Calci, reflects what traders actually believe. It's real-time odds
01:28:28.820 on the midterm elections. Give it a try by using code MEGAN KELLY, or you can click the link in
01:28:32.480 our description new users get 25 bucks for you when they trade 25 bucks so her odds are going
01:28:37.680 up but that that market probably doesn't reflect it well the biggest the biggest tell beyond the
01:28:43.180 poll is the president's going to south carolina again he was just there and he's going again
01:28:47.800 tomorrow to campaign for her he wouldn't be doing that if they didn't see a serious problem
01:28:52.880 most the south carolina race begins a lot a lot of a lot of these races texas iowa ohio um they
01:29:00.240 say in the end, Republicans say, look, we're even or we're a little bit behind, but that's good
01:29:05.380 enough. The president's going to cause a surge of MAGA voting and the Democrats just aren't going
01:29:10.660 to win these races because of the political physics here and the laws of political gravity.
01:29:15.020 We'll see. He wouldn't be going again if they didn't think she could lose.
01:29:19.380 Yeah, clearly they've got internal polls which are showing them there's trouble because the
01:29:23.340 president does not waste time in the lead up to the actual election day the week before going
01:29:28.160 down to South Carolina, uh, which is redder than red. If he doesn't have to, um, what do you make
01:29:34.800 of that? So, I mean, we should not be losing on team red or rational South Carolina, but let's go
01:29:41.780 to, uh, Minnesota where that was an exciting possible seat for Republicans because that's
01:29:50.320 a blue state, but Michelle Tafoya is so charming and likable and has run such a smart race. 0.96
01:29:55.600 She actually has been showing up in some of the polls over the loon Peggy Flanagan, who begins every appearance with a land acknowledgement.
01:30:04.420 But 14 points, I know they say, and Nate Cohn said, the New York Times guy, Minnesota is notoriously very hard to poll, very hard to poll.
01:30:13.060 So like even he's saying pump the brakes in caution.
01:30:16.040 But that poll has the feeling of the Ann Seltzer poll of the Des Moines Register prior to 2024.
01:30:21.580 Well, it's not 10, 14 points. And again, this is the inverse of South Carolina, where the
01:30:26.820 candidate quality advantage goes decisively to the Republicans. Michelle Tafoya is a great 0.97
01:30:32.340 candidate. She's won a great race. Peggy Flannan, not a great candidate, not run a great race.
01:30:37.200 But the governor's race there with Senator Klobuchar at the top of the ticket is not great
01:30:42.920 for Tafoya, the fact that it's a big Democratic year. She is very smartly, just like Mike Rogers
01:30:48.160 next door in Michigan. These are Republicans who are saying, hey, people don't like incumbents.
01:30:53.020 People don't like corruption. Let's run against, you know, the state Democrats rather than running
01:30:58.280 against, obviously, Donald Trump. So she's certainly going to do herself a lot of good
01:31:04.840 in terms of showing people how to run in a blue state as a Republican. But her chances have always
01:31:10.200 been long simply because of the nature of the state. But I don't think she's down 14, but I
01:31:15.880 I think she's down more than outside the margin of error at this point, because as the race closes, Democrats are coming out.
01:31:23.080 Every other day, we get an update in the Michigan Senate race between El-Sayed and Mike Rogers.
01:31:30.620 Here's my like I haven't been tracking it that closely, Mark.
01:31:33.340 I know that the Republicans are doing what they would do to any candidate with El-Sayed's family ties, which is basically try to make him a member of the Muslim Brotherhood.
01:31:41.500 And he did write a letter in support of someone in the Muslim Brotherhood who was the president of Egypt.
01:31:48.940 So, like, the ties are there.
01:31:50.460 They're not completely making this up.
01:31:52.080 But unlike every other time, like back in my days at Fox, this would have worked like a charm. 0.90
01:31:56.660 When we were closer to 9-11, people were very wary of, you know, anybody with ties to what looked like radical Muslims. 0.96
01:32:04.260 And it's not working this time, or at least it's not working the way they hoped it would.
01:32:10.300 And I think it's for two reasons. You tell me what you think. Mike Rogers is a dud. He seems like a nice guy, but he's a dud. There's no charisma. And secondly, the Israel thing is huge right now in all of these midterms. It's like the 800 pound gorilla because you look at how independents feel about Israel and our closeness with it.
01:32:30.600 They blame Israel for getting us into the Iran war, which nobody supports anymore.
01:32:33.980 And the gas prices are high and they're looking to make somebody pay for those decisions.
01:32:38.520 And those people are named Republicans. 0.63
01:32:41.360 So I think it's that is why they're having such a difficult time driving El-Sayed's
01:32:45.920 poll numbers down.
01:32:46.680 And El-Sayed, well, he's kind of annoying. 0.94
01:32:49.540 His interviews are you kind of want to slap him around a little bit, like shut up and 0.82
01:32:52.560 just answer the question.
01:32:53.960 Some people find him charming and fairly good looking.
01:32:56.400 This is what I've seen people talk about.
01:32:57.620 He's young and he's kind of like energetic and he went on Fox News and he had some sort of friendly interviews.
01:33:02.960 So I don't think that El-Sayed will lose in Michigan.
01:33:06.540 I think Mike Rogers is going to lose, as he did the last time to the equally deplorable Elissa Slotkin.
01:33:11.520 What do you think?
01:33:12.260 Well, I agree with I don't I agree with almost everything you said.
01:33:15.020 I think Mike Rogers is the kind of Republican who gets elected in Michigan.
01:33:19.520 They don't necessarily need flashy.
01:33:21.580 They like solid.
01:33:22.760 They like Midwestern.
01:33:23.760 So I don't think Mike Rogers is necessarily the problem.
01:33:26.540 But I think you are right. They haven't knocked him out. You know, if you go back four months ago, the Republican playbook was Nike knockout Tallarico, knockout LCA, knockout Flanagan, knockout Andrews in South Carolina, take their liberal positions, some of which they've they've run away from and knock them out.
01:33:43.820 they may not win but they have the democrats may not win but they haven't knocked him out
01:33:48.420 you're right this guy has not been knocked out but he is not closed the deal either he's not
01:33:53.140 closed the sale so i don't know who's going to win michigan or texas i sort of took a vow
01:33:57.200 four days ago after looking a lot of data i don't think you can tell who's going to win either of
01:34:01.740 those races there's just too much weird stuff but that guy needs more black vote than he's getting
01:34:07.280 he needs more young independent vote that he's getting he needs more jewish vote than he's
01:34:11.240 getting. He needs more working class vote than he's getting just mathematically to get to a 0.97
01:34:15.520 majority. So he's probably the favorite given just the climate. But I wouldn't be surprised if he'd 1.00
01:34:21.720 lost it because Mike Rogers is in the game right now and his folks feel confident because he did
01:34:26.440 run two years ago that he can he can win it on the ground with turnout if it's if it's within
01:34:31.080 the margin of error. If Mike Rogers loses, I don't want to see him ever again. I think I think
01:34:36.980 I think you'll get I think you'll get your way. He had his chance twice.
01:34:41.000 And El-Sayed, like he couldn't stop either one of them. I mean, she's awful. She's the one who's 0.96
01:34:46.560 out there threatening criminal charges for people who want to go work for Trump to try to discourage
01:34:50.660 people in their late teens from taking a job in Republican politics, even though she says,
01:34:54.980 oh, I have Trump voters who voted for me. I want to, you know, govern across the aisle. Oh,
01:34:59.300 F off. It was a lie. And then there's El-Sayed with all the Muslim Brotherhood stuff. So, 0.86
01:35:03.360 I'll just say one other thing real quickly about the Israel point you made.
01:35:07.820 This guy said in the debate two weeks ago that he couldn't answer a quote-unquote hypothetical question about whether Israel or Iran was a bigger threat to the United States.
01:35:17.960 And he'd paid no apparent political price for that.
01:35:21.600 That shows you the power of the issue.
01:35:23.780 It shows you that a lot of the critiques of him as well, he couldn't possibly win given his positions on Israel.
01:35:31.000 No, the establishments of both parties still don't get that.
01:35:35.140 That may not be a position they like, but it's not disqualifying.
01:35:38.680 And in some ways, it's a positive with some voters.
01:35:41.580 No, El Sayed is going to win because of his position on Israel. 0.84
01:35:45.080 That's what I think.
01:35:46.340 I, of course, am following both sides of the Republican Party on the Israel issue.
01:35:51.620 And I know very clearly how the Dems and the independents feel about Israel now. 0.86
01:35:55.060 Not for it. Not in favor.
01:35:56.660 And what I see is that they are happy that El-Sayed will hold the line against too much closeness between the United States and Israel.
01:36:07.660 And they do blame Israel right now for getting us into the war with Iran.
01:36:12.200 They don't blame Iran.
01:36:13.560 They blame Israel. 0.97
01:36:14.920 I agree with your analysis. 1.00
01:36:16.040 They think that's a reasonable answer.
01:36:18.080 So people are misreading that entirely.
01:36:20.040 I agree with you.
01:36:20.540 I think he is getting praised and propped up for answering it that way. 0.71
01:36:26.660 Let's talk about Alaska and the dirty tricks that just came out in The New York Times, which, as we were on the air first hour, it hit that they have indeed uncovered the fact that, you know, because in this race, so the listening audience knows, there's Mary Peltola.
01:36:42.900 She's the Alaska Democrat running for this seat, and she's up against Dan Sullivan, the sitting GOP senator.
01:36:49.000 But the Democrats, we knew it was like generally the Democrats found another Dan Sullivan to get him on the ballot to split the Republicans vote and confuse voters.
01:36:59.460 And now the New York Times just breaking the news that indeed it was a staffer for Mary Peltola who received unusual instructions from top campaign aides.
01:37:12.400 Find as many people named Dan Sullivan in Alaska as you can.
01:37:17.320 The staffer complied, combing through voter records to produce a list of Dan Sullivans from across the state.
01:37:22.760 And they found a Dan Sullivan, like in some fishing village along the Alaska panhandle, reachable only by Aaron C., who announced his candidacy for Senate.
01:37:35.380 He is Dan J. Sullivan, unlike Dan S. Sullivan, as in sitting senator.
01:37:42.280 Dan S. Sullivan is the one Republicans, if they want to vote GOP, should vote for.
01:37:46.440 so what do you make of the new york times breaking this dirty trick in detail it's great reporting
01:37:51.520 it's brilliantly written and you have to say if you're someone who believes the new york times
01:37:54.560 will never do anything to hurt democrats they did here i i may be wrong about this but i think it
01:37:59.840 could it could decide the race it's such a dirty trick and to the new york times and to the public
01:38:05.320 almost everyone involved who they reached lied about it and we know they lied because they've
01:38:10.360 got the text messages that illustrate the conspiracy and their main source was a see
01:38:15.580 the top person in the campaign who left the campaign, they're trying to claim she's disgruntled,
01:38:20.120 but the texts aren't disgruntled. The text messages tell the tale. And, you know, I don't
01:38:25.740 know that there's a crime that was committed here, although there's speculation about that already on
01:38:29.940 X. But I think there's no doubt that she's either gonna have to say, all my top aides were engaged
01:38:34.540 in a conspiracy central to our election strategy, and they never told me about it, or she knew about
01:38:40.800 it. And I really do think unless the Alaska local press just covers it up and doesn't it doesn't
01:38:45.860 ask about it, I really do think it could take a race that was close and and and get them solving
01:38:50.640 reelected because they did something that's cool. I'll say at a minimum, dirty pool. Would you say
01:38:57.280 dirty? I would say dirty pool, but at a minimum. But they lied about it. And and, you know, lying
01:39:02.540 about it, just I don't think it's going to sit well with the voters there who will say this goes
01:39:07.180 beyond just the kind of normal lying that people in politics do. I agree. This is despicable what
01:39:13.580 they've done up there. This is like trying to confuse elderly Alaskan voters into pulling
01:39:18.940 the lever for the wrong candidate. I mean, that's just disgusting. And the conspiracy touches 0.87
01:39:23.400 several organizations. It touches this outside guy who's kind of the ringleader of it,
01:39:29.000 who did way more than just recruit this one extra Dan Sullivan into the race. It touches
01:39:33.480 her campaign. It touches the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee. And it also apparently touches
01:39:38.840 the law firm, Megan, of one of your favorite lawyers, Mark Elias, the Democratic campaign
01:39:43.280 super lawyer whose law firm apparently, according to the text messages, was involved. Yeah, you
01:39:48.320 wouldn't think Mark Elias would be involved with such a thing, would you? Yeah, speaking of
01:39:53.080 despicable, that's that is just so gross. So hopefully that will help Dan S. Sullivan get
01:39:58.540 the votes that are intended for him when this election rolls around, as opposed to Dan J.
01:40:05.140 Sullivan, J. Ford, just visiting, just kidding, just found off the coast of Alaska.
01:40:10.580 I have to say, you said that his town is only reachable by air and sea. Do you know that's
01:40:15.020 also true of Juneau, the capital of Alaska? There are no roads there either.
01:40:18.300 I was going to say, that kind of describes most Alaskan towns.
01:40:20.400 Including the state capital.
01:40:22.660 I will say credit to the Times, because they also, they broke a story about Mary Peltola
01:40:27.340 abusing her staff and making the staff feed her lizard meatball all the time you love that detail
01:40:35.960 you bring that up every episode pretty much it's a good detail little meatball yeah it's a good
01:40:40.100 detail i agree i'm with you it jumped right out of the story my uh my long long time assistant
01:40:46.980 abigail finan said oh suck it up and feed the lizard shut up it's not that bad um okay where
01:40:54.040 do I go next? There's a lot more. What are we looking at now? Because, you know, Harry Enten 0.98
01:41:00.660 is out there, Mark, and I know we are both fans, but he is saying things that are actually really
01:41:05.440 scary about the Democrat takeover. He admits that the GOP is going to hold on to the Senate if
01:41:11.880 there's that same polling error that we've seen in so many elections where there's a secret 3%
01:41:16.700 swing to the Republicans' favor. But I saw him do some long hit on CNN yesterday. It was
01:41:22.260 uncharacteristically meandering for him and it was talking about like bloodbath in the house in
01:41:28.420 particular and possibly the senate as well so what do you think i think harry needs to use fewer
01:41:33.420 props he's using a lot of props lately it's got like top hats and bowling pins um what i think
01:41:39.660 is based on my reporting with with people in both parties it's not a prediction it's not a guess it's
01:41:44.060 not a hope and a dream it's talking to people in both parties there's probably a 30 chance that
01:41:48.360 there is a blue wipeout. And if there is that blue wipeout, it's Democrats could win eight Senate
01:41:53.960 seats or nine and they could win 35 House seats. Again, I'm not predicting it, but a lot of
01:41:59.820 Republican sources who see a lot of private data at very high levels of the party who think that's
01:42:04.000 possible. And then you're talking about Ohio, Iowa, Texas, Alaska, maybe still Kansas, South
01:42:10.880 Carolina. You're talking about Maine. You're talking about a lot of seats falling and seats
01:42:14.700 in the house falling that people aren't even talking about if that doesn't happen and again
01:42:19.060 i think it's kind of binary i think if there's no blue wave republicans save a lot of these seats
01:42:23.680 not all of them but they save a lot of them in the house they save a lot of them in the senate
01:42:27.080 and probably keep control of the senate so i know all the reasons we did a whole segment on next up
01:42:32.600 about it we're doing one again tomorrow why the polling often understates republican support
01:42:37.020 it is possible that it's actually understating democratic support
01:42:40.680 hmm so nobody knows nothing about nothing well what you're saying going into um yeah i this is
01:42:47.820 i've said for months it's the most confusing the term i've ever covered but i think i think it's
01:42:51.560 a little bit clarifying to say without a blue tsunami without massive shift of hispanic vote
01:42:57.720 young voters uh working class voters independent voters suburban voters and without depressed rural
01:43:03.060 turnout without all those things i think it will be republicans will do pretty well under the
01:43:08.000 circumstances if all those things happen and they can it could be massive so so i think the i think
01:43:13.820 the floor so you're like if if all the people vote democrat it will be bad for republicans
01:43:19.120 what i'm saying is the the swings in those demographics have to be historically large
01:43:25.540 for democrats to take the senate and to win more than a dozen house seats and that the chances of
01:43:32.660 that happening are not above 50 but they're not they're not nothing and that's again that's talking
01:43:37.360 to Republicans who look at the data and say there could be and you see it in some places in the early
01:43:43.040 vote, you see it in some of the polling that could happen. So that's as clarifying as I can get.
01:43:48.900 Democrats will fall short in a lot of these races we're talking about, including South Carolina,
01:43:53.440 including Kansas, including Ohio, including Iowa, unless there's this big national wave.
01:43:59.120 And these things do tend to be streaky. Yeah. You know, I've covered these election nights.
01:44:03.360 You see a couple fall, you're like, oh, okay, and they tend to go.
01:44:08.180 It's like if you see three go, you're probably looking at another four that are going to go.
01:44:13.120 And, you know, you got to batten down the hatches and get ready for bad news if you're on the team that's losing.
01:44:18.540 Mark Halperin, a pleasure.
01:44:20.100 Great to see you, my friend.
01:44:21.100 Thanks for coming on.
01:44:21.560 Never skeletal.
01:44:22.460 Good to see you.
01:44:23.640 No, you look great.
01:44:26.040 Tomorrow, somebody else who's not skeletal, Stu Bergeer, he'll be here.
01:44:30.100 See you then.
01:44:30.680 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.