00:07:15.540you've got a different sect that's now quietly backing out of the story altogether because they
00:07:23.400know the whole thing is a hoax. This is a made up claim. This woman wasn't gang raped. She was
00:07:31.360promiscuous and made some bad decisions. And I feel sorry for her because she's a cutter and0.97
00:07:37.240has some emotional issues quite clearly, but that should not result in four to seven young men going
00:07:43.700to jail for two decades. Okay, so lots of places we can take it to kick it off, but we're starting
00:07:49.400on Cornell. Your thoughts, Anne? This is so much, and there's so many new developments to get to as
00:07:53.940well. I mean, the Alex Cooper podcast is a remarkable artifact of fourth wave feminism
00:07:58.140because her entire shtick is telling women that they can have sex like men, and this is two parts.
00:08:03.340One, that you can do it, and two, that it will be empowering to you. So yes, physically, can you do0.78
00:08:08.660it. Two, is it going to be empowering to you? In the vast, vast majority of cases, no. And that is
00:08:14.840part of why women are often traumatized, as Jane Doe very clearly was, by the sexual experience
00:08:21.940that she was told by the same people who told Alex Cooper this lie that she now promotes everywhere,
00:08:27.340that it will make you feel empowered, that you should be able to do it, and it will make you
00:08:32.040feel empowered. And in the vast majority of cases, women can't do that. It is a chemical biological1.00
00:08:36.860fact. It's about oxytocin levels that are released after sex. Basically, this is not disputed science
00:08:42.100whatsoever. But Cooper, as you mentioned, Megan, and I think I like Sexy Podcastly, we should just
00:08:47.080abbreviate it to SPL. She's the one, the SPL is over here telling everybody that it's going to be0.99
00:08:53.560great, that you should do this and you will feel just fine. You will feel even more like a woman,
00:08:58.920perhaps. And there's a really sad BuzzFeed article, I think it's back from 2019, with a rape victim
00:09:04.580talking to BuzzFeed, and she has the most, like, chilling and depressing quote ever. She says,
00:09:09.100HBO did a number on me. And it was an article about how Gen Z women were rejecting, quote,
00:09:14.580unquote, sex positivity, because they felt like they were told that sex positivity would be
00:09:19.520empowering to them. And then as they practiced what was being preached to them, and in some
00:09:23.460cases preached by them, they found that it was painful. So, this entire episode of Call Her Daddy
00:09:28.800was like the biggest display in lacking self-awareness that I have seen in years, to be
00:09:34.600honest, because they say, and you probably heard this in the episode, the expert Kate Mann says,
00:09:39.320we should be able to, you know, talk about risk factors. And she does that to only point the
00:09:43.740finger at the existence of fraternities, rather than saying, we should talk about risk factors0.96
00:09:48.800for women as well. And lastly, Megan, Alex Cooper opens it by saying, we're a decade since Me Too.
00:09:54.780It's been a decade since Me Too, and we're still here. Again, a lack of self-awareness,
00:09:58.480Because part of the reason we're still here is that Me Too started on something that was really legitimately about cases where women were shamed out of and intimidated out of reporting awful, sometimes violent rapes that had happened to them.
00:10:11.380And then it ballooned into the Aziz Ansari bad date case. And that did hurt the credibility of women who have horrible, violent experiences. So it's actually the very reason that we're still here. I mean, the whole thing, again, it's just an artifact of fourth wave feminism. It's incredible. And there's no self-awareness to go around.
00:10:28.480honestly it's i don't want to hear any lectures from alex cooper about the me too movement where
00:10:34.400were you you were 22 years old at the time you were creating a platform desperate to create a
00:10:38.540platform for yourself what did you say you said nothing like it's ridiculous uh there are so many
00:10:43.500people out there wannabe celebrities uh who are want to take credit for the me too movement uh
00:10:49.480wasn't like alissa milano she was out there saying oh she coined the phrase me too right0.91
00:10:54.500but she never fucking came forward with anything she was never brave enough to stand up and tell1.00
00:10:58.220a story. I remember Rose McGowan threw her under the bus because she wanted all this glory for1.00
00:11:04.260having like coined a phrase. Where were you? Rose McGowan actually gave her name on Harvey and took0.98
00:11:09.920a risk. She did nothing. Alex Cooper, you did nothing. Oh, you're so exasperated about where0.69
00:11:14.660the Me Too movement. What did you do? Did you stand up against anybody? Did you tell, did you
00:11:18.920come out publicly? Okay. Now, now you want us to know you went to be you and something happened
00:11:23.680to you. Okay, great. You've done nothing other than endanger other young women. That's how you've
00:11:28.560spent your career. You are endangering vulnerable young women. My young woman would never listen to0.95
00:11:35.520her. My young woman, who I'm raising in my home, knows a slut with zero values when she sees one,1.00
00:11:42.480but she's endangering other young girls who think this is female empowerment, and she doesn't care.0.97
00:11:47.400Let me let me just give you a soundbite from Alex Cooper's show from 2018.
00:11:57.780If you are a five or a six, get your squats in today, bitch.1.00
00:12:01.880Get on top and ride that thing like you've never done before.1.00
00:12:04.960You are getting slammed into the wall.0.98
00:12:07.900You are saying horrible, disgusting, filthy things to get this guy off.1.00
00:12:13.020you're going in overdrive over time putting out all the stops saying fucking porn star shit1.00
00:12:20.080absolutely come on the face and make it fucking rain baby i'm just putting it out there i'm being1.00
00:12:27.020honest or if you're a nine or a ten a guy knows he's gotta roll out the red fucking carpet he's0.99
00:12:34.740gotta be ready because he knows you're not just gonna spread your legs and be like here we go0.98
00:12:40.480baby let's do the damn thing but also on that same note if you're a nine or a ten you feel and0.96
00:12:45.760i think a lot of times you do just lay their leg spread starfish have fun dead fish in the sea you1.00
00:12:52.000know put it in me baby that's alex cooper the there isn't a classy bone in that woman's body1.00
00:13:00.620she's encouraging women who she thinks rate as a five or a six on the looks scale you could hear1.00
00:13:07.300there, her advice for them. This is today's modern feminist, empathetic. What happened?1.00
00:13:13.120Why are women being treated this way with this idiot professor at Cornell, both of whom are1.00
00:13:20.040playing along like they care about what happens to young women on college campuses? What these1.00
00:13:28.460two women want them to do is spread the legs and give it up to anybody. And if they rate as a five1.00
00:13:34.760or a six on the look scale to let some dude shoot it all over their face, gratefully.
00:13:40.380That's Alex Cooper. That's her brand. That's how she became a multimillionaire. So she can shut1.00
00:13:47.260the fuck up when it comes to advising young women dealing with issues on college campuses1.00
00:13:53.540that she helped create, that she is helping to create to this day with being enabled by the0.99
00:14:01.200so-called celebrities who go on that podcast and pretend she's a normal messenger instead of a
00:14:07.380devil, a devil in a blonde wig trying to get young women in trouble. That's the house call her daddy0.99
00:14:13.220is built on. Exactly what everybody just heard. There are so many more clips that you could play
00:14:17.160that are just like that one. And what's so sad, it just hurts your heart to listen to that because
00:14:22.120the reason Alex Cooper is making fun of these fives and sixes, whatever, who are so eager versus
00:14:27.300the nines and tens who are less eager to please the man is that the fives and the sixes are the
00:14:32.600ones that really want to be liked by the man. And that just hurts your heart to hear because that
00:14:36.580is exactly why her advice about sex is bad and wrong. It's because women do sometimes see sex1.00
00:14:43.040as a way to feel affirmed by men. Women who feel like they're going to have a hard time getting0.99
00:14:48.120married and finding the right person will use sex as a way because they think it means that the man0.98
00:14:52.560really wants to be intimate with them, especially young women whose brains aren't fully formed
00:14:56.340and are not quite adult women. I mean, they're adults, but they're not quite, again, their brains1.00
00:15:01.320aren't fully formed. And so it's easy to kind of rationalize it. If we have sex, then of course
00:15:05.660we have this level of intimacy. It means he wants me. And that advice from Alex Cooper is so
00:15:10.680internally incoherent for that exact reason. And it is so, so profoundly sad. Over that interview,
00:15:16.340they say multiple times, if a woman is raped, 100% of the fault is with the rapist and 0% is
00:15:22.640with the person who was raped. We can all agree with that. Everyone agrees with that. What nobody1.00
00:15:26.320has consensus on is whether someone who, to the police in a sworn statement,
00:15:31.420described something that showed consent every step of the way was actually raped. That is what
00:15:38.280the disagreement is on. And what they're trying to do and what they're trying to convince other
00:15:41.540women people disagree with them on is that they're acting like people are actually supportive of
00:15:46.300rapists. No, people don't agree that this is a proper legal definition of rape that should1.00
00:15:52.160justify people losing 20 years of their life to prison, losing their entire reputation, all of
00:15:57.360that. That's what the disagreement is on. And they're, I think, honestly, too ignorant to even
00:16:01.020understand or wrap their heads around that. There is only one relevant legal question in0.98
00:16:07.580this case now. She's not alleging anybody held her down and had sex with her against her will.1.00
00:16:12.320She's alleging that because she consumed so many drugs and so much alcohol, she was incapacitated.
00:16:18.140it. Well, the standard is physical helplessness. That is the only way that this could have been
00:16:24.480transformed into a rape. Literally, this is not Megyn Kelly's opinion. This is the legal reality.
00:16:29.920It's a good legal reality. Sunny Hauston and I agree on this. She has to prove a DA would have
00:16:36.160to prove that Jane Doe was physically helpless, that the intoxication had crossed her over to a
00:16:41.560place where she was physically helpless. The case law interpreting that legal standard has said
00:16:48.000That means unconscious. OK, go look it up. I'm sick of having to educate these absolute know nothing female warriors. It means you are unconscious. That's what physical helplessness is. Jane Doe does not even allege that Jane Doe's testimonial to this police in the six pages gives you an intimate play by play of the entire seven hours where she made decisions. Yes to this. No to that. Yes to this. No to that.
00:17:15.720this guy came in, this guy left, I opened the door, I texted a friend, I got up, I moved here.
00:17:20.580The whole night, the whole night, refusing acts all the way up to the wee hours of the morning
00:17:25.560when she claims she was eight out of 10 intoxicated. A fact we know because she remembers it while she
00:17:30.400was awake and conscious and dealing with these men. I'm sorry she doesn't have it, okay? I'm
00:17:34.500sorry she doesn't have it. It's a legal matter. I don't give a shit about people's feelings. I
00:17:39.260really don't. I don't care about their emotions. I couldn't care fucking less. I'm a lawyer. I think
00:17:44.140about this from a legal perspective, trying to lock people up for decades. The standard is
00:17:48.860physical helplessness. Look it up. That's why Kathy Hochul and others now want to change the law
00:17:54.480because the law is not on her side. It's not on the side of any woman who voluntarily1.00
00:17:58.600gets blottoed and then wants to have a Sunday morning regret about whether she should have
00:18:04.300given it up. Sorry, you've placed yourself in a very precarious position. But instead of saying
00:18:09.840any of that, what we have is hympathy. Here's this ridiculous Kate Mann on the Sex Podcaster0.99
00:18:18.220show in Sat 12. So hympathy is my word for the scenarios where we have sympathy and loyalty0.71
00:18:26.400for a male perpetrator of misogyny over a female victim. So basically, we feel bad for him who did
00:18:34.760the thing that is awful over someone who is the victim of that harmful behavior. So I've spent
00:18:42.380so much of my academic career trying to understand misogyny as not hatred in boys' hearts,
00:18:49.240but rather as a social system that punishes and enforces patriarchal norms and expectations0.99
00:18:56.100by visiting women with so much shit, so much hostility, so much hatred when we don't stay0.99
00:19:03.320in our lane. But the flip side of misogyny is just as women get punished, men get rewarded.1.00
00:19:10.080So whenever you have these social systems where you have punishment and blame and holding women
00:19:17.680responsible for their behavior, even when they're really doing nothing wrong, you're going to have
00:19:22.780this flip side, which is rewarding and lionizing and even celebrating him for engaging in this
00:19:29.940punitive and misogynistic behavior no one is doing that two men got expelled the others who
00:19:40.580had an actual sexual interlude with her got suspended for years in some cases this is an
00:19:47.280absurdity they are pretending as though this were um what was the name of that jodie foster movie
00:19:54.420Was it The Accused? Back in the day where they literally held her up against a pinball machine and forcibly raped her character in this very disturbing movie.
00:20:06.320That is not even arguably what happened here.
00:20:10.100They are talking about her like she was grabbed from the street, held down and forcibly raped, as opposed to our bodies, our choices.
00:20:19.900We're all just consenting adults here.0.99
00:20:39.700She did not tell the audience any of the mitigating facts.
00:20:44.280I was just going to say that she does not describe any of what we know happened from that room.
00:20:49.000Even the redacted Title IX papers that have come out, you can see that there are things called undisputed facts in the Title IX report. And you can see there are a lot of things that the investigators all agreed on, including, by the way, that sworn statement that was agreed to, as you've pointed out, by Jane Doe herself. By Jane Doe herself. She marked it up. It went from like 120 pages to six.
00:21:10.280And they make a big deal in this episode of Call Her Daddy of the fact that they left out the claim from her that she could say with 100% confidence that she was raped.
00:21:19.480And they're like, oh, this is a conspiracy because the Cornell University Police Department wants to protect Cornell University.
00:21:24.460First of all, I don't dispute that that's somewhat of a problem in the setup when you have these police departments attached to the universities.
00:21:29.840But secondly, they did it with her agreement because what she went on to describe was consent every step of the way and not because of a quote unquote loophole, but because we have to have legal standards where people are intoxicated and having sex and then not able to turn around and say that there was rape involved.
00:21:49.080That is exactly why that law exists. As you just outlined, other states that have closed the quote unquote voluntary intoxication loophole still have laws that are just like New York's where you have to be physically helpless.
00:21:59.660So even if they closed the loophole, even if they closed the loophole, they wouldn't be able to say much in this case because, again, she agrees in that sworn statement.
00:22:08.260What she describes is consent every step of the way, every step of the way.
00:22:12.940And they don't talk about that at all on this episode of Call Her Daddy.
00:22:16.160So you would have zero idea what the actual facts of the case are.
00:24:11.140the motherfucking gluck gluck three thousand slash nine thousand the gluck gluck three thousand0.97
00:24:20.800nine thousand is every man's kryptonite i will give you the little definition of this gluck gluck0.98
00:24:29.140it is a vacuum seal double hand twist gawk gawk combo oh my god i'm sorry i swear i'm not degrading0.95
00:24:37.440women i'm just giving you guys tips here because i swear it works okay in 24 hours post blow job0.90
00:24:43.760you will know if you are a 9 000 performer or if you're a 3 000 performer oh and ladies i'll let
00:24:49.540you research a little bit and if you guys want to write in let me know if you want me to actually
00:24:52.560go into more detail you can let me know but i know my dad listens so hi dad whatever if you1.00
00:24:57.340are not sucking your man's dick, that's fine. 100% your decision. I respect it. I understand1.00
00:25:08.340it. However, if you are not, somebody else is. It's disgusting to me that we have any place for
00:25:19.280this person in polite society or in actual conversations about life and love and sex,0.97
00:25:25.820But that's America. There are some disgusting people who want to listen to that filthy mouth talk like that in front of 11 year olds. Fucking A. It's disgusting, but they'll have to deal with that in their Sunday pew. I hope eventually they'll get there.1.00
00:25:40.360But that woman is now turning around as the avenger of women, Emily, and talking to Mr.0.59
00:25:48.100Ms. Empathy as though those two are going to get to the bottom of how this happened.0.95
00:37:13.240by people like Alex Cooper. That's how we got here, in my opinion.
00:37:17.980Well, Alex Cooper is telling young men that this is what young women want and that this is what
00:37:21.460empowers young women. Alex Cooper is telling men that those clips go viral on TikTok. That's what
00:37:27.120young men are seeing that young women want. So, of course, for some of these young men who acted
00:37:32.520disgustingly, they thought, oh, OK, this is perfectly normal. This should be normal. As
00:37:38.100Jane Doe herself said, people are going to have to get used to this stuff because it's becoming
00:37:41.320more normal. You could take that right from an episode of Call Her Daddy. You would take it right
00:37:45.340from an episode of Call Her Daddy. And the last thing I wanted to say, Megan, is just that people
00:37:48.540don't understand if you are needlessly doing this where there is not evidence, not sufficient
00:37:53.480evidence. If you're needlessly doing this, what you are going to do is send a chunk of young men
00:37:57.420further into resentment politics and further into disillusionment and further into feeling like the
00:38:02.620system is stacked and rigged against them because sometimes it is. And that, if you are mad about
00:38:07.420resentful young the politics of resentful young men you are making the problem 10 times worse
00:38:11.80010 times worse by needlessly stoking sex divisions in cases like this and honestly who do they have
00:38:18.400standing up for that right now right because you've got you've got aoc you've got kathy
00:38:23.680hochel out there letitia james throwing them under the bus where are the male politicians1.00
00:38:28.940standing up for them because this has become a political football right before the midterms
00:38:32.340Honestly, where are they? Because what I see is some people in the podcast land and some people on X and like two people on Fox who are standing up for you don't have to stand up for the morality of what these men did, but you can stand up for the legality of it.
00:38:48.960given Jane Doe's sworn testimonial. And they're not getting that. What they're getting is a swarm
00:38:55.560of Democrat politicians and pundits throwing them under the bus, ignoring Jane Doe's sworn
00:39:00.840statement, and then taking their pens out to demonize men writ large. Because that's all the
00:39:06.560rage in Democrat politics. It's one of the reasons why many of us refuse to call ourselves feminists1.00
00:39:11.440and have for decades, because it means in their weird leftist world, you have to hate men. The0.95
00:39:17.380knee-jerk instinct, even when you are clearly at fault as a woman, is to blame the men for all
00:39:23.160your problems. And that was on full display in this disgusting, pathetic excuse for a podcast0.99
00:39:29.420over the weekend with this Cornell guest. All right. Now, the media has been enabling,0.98
00:39:35.440sniveling, and as disgusting as ever. And on Friday, Em, you remember this, I said when those
00:39:44.040new text messages came out via TMZ showing that there was more to the exchange in which she said
00:39:50.440nothing illegal. At the end of the day, nothing illegal happened with the sex. There was nothing
00:39:55.300illegal about the sex. She said that. And TMZ broke the news that that text message went on
00:40:00.700to show her calling it, her, the victim, calling it our gangbang and then going on to say our
00:40:07.700bodies, our choice. And I said, I find this very problematic that the New York Times, which clearly
00:40:14.800had these messages, only published part of the messages and clearly had this second part and did
00:40:20.900not publish it. And it was also CBS New York. And I said on the air, I want to know why. Why?
00:40:28.100Were they not given the full text message or was it an editorial decision to not tell the world
00:40:33.660that they had seen in the text messages the alleged victim here referred to her own gang
00:40:38.640rape as a gang bang and said, our bodies, our choice. And you tweeted it out. That's how I
00:40:46.460learned it later Friday, that the Federalist actually went to CBS New York and found the
00:40:52.960answer. They sure did. They asked CBS New York for comment, asked the New York Times for comment.
00:40:58.120Did it get comment back from the New York Times, which is quite interesting. But CBS New York said
00:41:02.380that that was an intentional editorial decision. They did include in their initial report her
00:41:08.040saying none of the sex stuff was illegal, which is an important line. And if they had left that
00:41:12.100out, I mean, it would be enormously egregious. But to leave out her then affirming, doubling down,
00:41:18.680saying our body, our choice, wrapping this in feminist language, intentionally wrapping this
00:41:23.420in feminist language and referring to what she is now calling a gang rape, a gang bang in a somewhat
00:41:29.340jocular tone, to leave all of that out is leaving serious context on the table. They're standing by
00:41:34.600that decision. They're defending that decision. And Megan, I think it makes a point that you've
00:41:38.060been making, or it underscores a point you've been making, which is that some of these media
00:41:40.860outlets are clearly getting selective leaks from Jane Doe's legal team, and they're being coached
00:41:48.100and shaped. The stories are being actually strategically shaped by the legal team.
00:59:36.400pick things up and play, end quote, and they do.
00:59:39.560Many stay for hours enjoying our puzzles, games, and toys.
00:59:42.300Imagine our surprise when our small local business was suddenly attacked by 8 million people who have never visited our store.
00:59:50.920It's been a surreal experience to be the focus of such widespread outrage after just one mention by a celebrity.
00:59:58.240Thanks to all our friends for their support and welcome to all the curious folks who have discovered us amidst the drama.
01:00:03.040We're going to keep our heads down and hopefully we can clear things up with Kelly someday.
01:00:06.360As a talented popular singer once said, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
01:00:12.300So, we'll get to how Kelly responded, and then Art of Play responded again, but here's what's happened. It's actually a very interesting phenomenon, because Kelly Clarkson is not particularly controversial. It's not like she's been a strong political voice, etc.
01:00:31.140She's been openly supporting Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton and says she's a Democrat, but she's not like in your face with it, though she was raised a Republican in Texas.
01:00:43.180And the Internet felt very strongly about her behavior.
01:00:49.080And I agree. I have to say she used her hefty weight as a celebrity influencer to remind us all that she's a very, very rich multimillionaire and that this fifteen thousand dollar bird on the wall was nothing to her and did not give any thought to the consequences of possibly ruining.0.68
01:01:19.080A much less powerful, less well off small shop in Brooklyn with this tweet and decided to complain Marie Antoinette style about the fact that they wouldn't bow down and immediately give her for 15 grand a stupid electronic bird on the wall.1.00
01:01:43.600And the Internet is angry at her for behaving this way.0.95
01:01:48.000Emily, the memes are like the greatest thing I've seen in a long time.
01:01:52.980I have been laughing out loud at what I've seen here.
01:02:15.320yeah steve producer steve one of the ones he sent me was kelly clarkson it was like a woman holding
01:02:20.540a gun from a movie and the caption was kelly clarkson at target trying to buy one of the red
01:02:24.660spheres outside of the store that's like attached to the concrete uh you know first of all if i had0.99
01:02:30.620kelly clarkson's money this is exactly the kind of dumb shit that i would be spending it on0.94
01:02:34.440like a bird attached to the wall i'd be like yeah yeah bird uh but it's musical exactly exactly and0.98
01:02:40.940it's also part of what's so funny is this is out of character for kelly clarkson it's like the one
01:02:44.580time she loses it in public is over an animatronic bird that's attached to a wall in a brooklyn magic
01:02:49.900shop also it conjures uh as you probably remember the real housewives of new york city early
01:02:55.000episodes where they're forced to go to alex and simon's townhouse in brooklyn and you have like
01:03:01.180ramona just utterly horrified that she has been asked to travel to brooklyn so you have cali
01:03:07.780clerkson also saying i drove all the way to brooklyn all the way to brooklyn god forbid
01:03:11.820Oh, God forbid, so Brooklyn, Brooklyn. But there's a I think maybe a serious element to this, which is that Kelly Clarkson has class anxiety that a lot of people who make it big in America do.
01:03:23.000And that's one of the most amazing things about America is that we have this like amazing, amazing American dream mentality, which American Idol back in his early days was so excellent about resonating with the public over, which is that you could be the small town girl for I think her dad was a pediatrician.
01:03:39.360she's not like from nothing right right but i mean she she went on to like just complete
01:03:42.920superstardom and is really one of at least for a while was one of the most famous people in the
01:03:47.020country after she won the first season and it was amazing like you can become a major singer
01:03:52.640celebrity because you get cast on a reality show like there's something really cool about it but
01:03:56.940i think she still probably clearly has this class anxiety that people don't take her seriously
01:04:02.040enough i mean she still has a little twang and that she's been in these spaces probably especially
01:04:06.780when she was younger and she had an accent and she was a Southern girl and people in New York0.97
01:04:10.660and LA may not have treated her as seriously as she wanted to be treated. So I feel like maybe
01:04:14.860that's what came out here. If we are to ascribe a serious motivation, it's so bad. I agree. That's
01:04:21.820that may be what drove some piece of it, but I actually think there's something else going on
01:04:25.700here, which is what I think people are reacting to. And it's like this sense of entitlement
01:04:32.080where like she expected to be treated a certain way
01:05:52.900She has a sense that she is entitled to be treated well all the time.0.99
01:05:57.860Everyone listening to me has been treated like shit more times than they can count, whether it's somebody flipping you the bird on the road and they don't care who you are or you're in a store.0.99
01:06:09.160They don't think you're special. You could be the best dressed in the restaurant. You get a shitty table. No one cares.1.00
01:06:13.960The rest, the waiter's room, whatever. And a normal person, I just think all of us are like, OK, and you move on.
01:06:22.820You don't like you wouldn't dream of like going out there and ripping them a new one and taking umbrage at the fact that you were not treated with the dignity that you feel you you deserve.
01:06:34.660It was just a very weird place for her to go in response to a small slight in the store.
01:06:40.040And it was about money at a time when people are really suffering.
01:06:45.140She actually wanted us to feel sorry for her that she that they didn't think she could afford the fifteen thousand dollar toy bird.
01:06:54.280Well, OK, so first of all, I have to say, Tucker gave you an amazing compliment over the weekend by saying you're one of the best summarizers of news stories in the business, which he put into words something I've definitely felt for a long time.
01:07:04.220That is exactly accurate. And you've just proven that, Megan, because this is a difficult the layers to the story are impossible to keep track of.
01:07:11.440and now I think we're all understanding what happened, which is that there was probably some
01:07:15.660type of miscommunication. Like she didn't want to hear it though, because she felt as though they
01:07:19.760were looking down on her. And after that it was gone. So there was no like rational behavior from
01:07:24.680Kelly Clarkson after she felt slighted, which if you're a celebrity and you feel like you have
01:07:30.040been slighted by a small business, do not blast them on social media until you have personally
01:07:36.220gotten to the bottom of what happened because the little people could get absolutely crushed
01:07:41.260by your decision and by the way it can boomerang back on you too especially in a time megan where
01:07:45.920as you just pointed out there are real class resentments brewing like real class resentments
01:07:50.660brewing brewing gas is over four dollars a gallon like you might be stepping on a rake over a0.97
01:07:55.100fucking bird which is the best part of the story but seriously like she we've seen this with other0.98
01:08:01.980celebrities who have made accusations that they were treated uh in a racist way by stores or0.99
01:08:06.680something like that and it always almost always turns out that there was a miscommunication which
01:08:11.000I think is what's happening here. And to take to social media immediately is so stupid and1.00
01:08:17.060unnecessary. And the owner of the store, the guy who says he's the owner, he's the silent partner,1.00
01:08:22.840he claims, is out there saying she just ruined my business. This woman with her one post has1.00
01:08:28.240absolutely devastated my business. Like the amount of hate that they now have incoming their way over0.99
01:08:33.020what they say was her misunderstanding about this bird. So now Clarkson doesn't like the fact that
01:08:38.980they that they respond oh here we go there's more okay oh there's two two more chapters i mean i am
01:08:45.260all over bird this is why we need you um yes it is important this is how we my team and i spend
01:08:49.940our weekends um we actually do have a lot of exchanges over this bird um so she posts the0.92
01:08:56.800thing saying they suck then they post the thing saying what doesn't kill you makes you stronger
01:09:00.960molly's not for sale sorry she didn't understand that then she gets back online because she now0.98
01:09:07.380she's starting to get it and writes, cool, cool. Sure. It wasn't for sale. That's the narrative
01:09:12.580art of play is going to go with. Thumbs up. So the whole conversation we had when I asked you
01:09:17.000if it was for sale whilst pointing to the price tag, hanging on the wall with the title singing
01:09:23.320bird didn't happen as you elevator eyed me saying in a condescending tone, quote, yes, it's for sale,
01:09:31.600but it costs $15,000. So if you'd like me to find something comparable for you, I can, end quote.
01:09:39.880That all never happened. And now it's not for sale. Okay, cool. So you're not only rude,
01:09:45.860you're a liar. You're also a liar. Got it. Check mark. And by the way, I obviously support small1.00
01:09:52.140businesses because I was literally at a small business trying to purchase things. I love small
01:09:57.400businesses and know they are important and I always support them, but you don't get a free
01:10:01.160pass to treat people less than in your store just because you are a small business. It's not that
01:10:07.640hard to be kind. I never blast people, but you, my friend were an exception. Your store is really
01:10:12.940cool. Unfortunately, you aren't defensive. I was just going to say that. Okay. So now she's hearing
01:10:19.200it, right? Like this is way too defensive. She Kelly Clarkson needs an intervention by some PR
01:10:23.580person. Our friend Ari Emanuel needs to call her and tell her to step away from the phone.1.00
01:10:28.720My dear, put down the phone. It's time for a visit to the therapist, not to X, to work out
01:10:35.080some of these issues that you seem to be suffering from. Then Art of Play responds on Instagram early
01:10:41.460this morning, and here is what they posted. We'd like to clarify some additional details
01:10:46.240about Kelly Clarkson's visit to our curiosity shop on Saturday. This is amazing.
01:10:53.580this is like the most interesting investigation uh during the five minutes she spent in the store
01:10:58.940they're like letting her have it she's here for five minutes but passive aggressively she inquired
01:11:02.960about right exactly like with the quote from the lyrics she inquired about our mechanical bird
01:11:09.180puppet named molly we explained that while molly is permanently attached to the wall
01:11:15.880and serves as a de facto mascot for our shop a nearly identical automaton is owned by the creator
01:11:23.260of the machines, a brilliant artist named Bliss Kolb, who lives in Seattle. He told us he would
01:11:28.840be willing to part with Molly's twin for $15,000. We explained all of this to Kelly Clarkson.
01:11:36.120We also offered to show her a different singing bird automaton made by a traditional clockmaking
01:11:42.420shop in Germany that she could have taken home with her that day. It costs about $2,000. She
01:11:48.720did not stick around long enough to see it. We've reached out to Kelly directly to try and
01:11:53.140clear the air. We really do wish her the best. We hope that someday we can all laugh about this
01:11:56.400misunderstanding. And then the store pinned to the top of its Instagram page, a September 5th post
01:12:01.980featuring a picture of Molly with the caption, our favorite items, not for sale.
01:12:09.880They're proving that Molly's not for sale, that Molly's never for sale. And that to the extent
01:12:14.740Kelly Clarkson saw a price tag on the wall referencing $15,000, it was not for this bird.
01:12:22.480It was for a different bird that lives in Seattle that they could help arrange for her.0.72
01:12:28.060Or if she wanted instant gratification, she could get the lesser version of Molly for just two grand and walk away.1.00
01:12:41.760Walking out of the Brooklyn store saying, you'll regret this and getting on X to do her nasty post.
01:12:49.220I really think this is a story about celebrity culture.
01:12:52.480And how, like, I'm sorry, even the nice ones, and I think Kelly Clarkson probably is or was, wind up believing their you-know-what doesn't stink.
01:13:01.600And they do walk into establishments expecting to be treated like they're special.
01:13:08.880And what she calls less than, I guarantee you, is what the rest of us call normal.
01:13:22.480See, that actually also might make sense with the images that have been going around showing, I think Kelly Clarkson even reposted one, a price tag next to Molly on the wall, which is that it was a price tag reflecting if you wanted to order the one from Seattle, then you could get that one for $15,000.
01:13:37.280you can't take the one off the wall in the store, which maybe the person wasn't like who explained
01:13:42.580that to her wasn't like, you know, fawning over her, which is probably the norm that celebrities
01:13:46.820get accustomed to. And when anything deviates from that there, it like sets off a red flag
01:13:51.440and maybe it triggered in her this like class anxiety she's always had since entering the
01:13:55.240business. But I was sending some of these memes to friends during the break. And one of my friends
01:13:59.300just responded, why with the Kelly Clarkson thing, did I end up just hating her and defending the1.00
01:14:04.200business. This is exactly like a totally normal person, by the way, like not in media or anything
01:14:10.260like this is exactly what Kelly Clarkson just unleashed because she decided to go on her like
01:14:16.840go rogue and start posting about this on X. I correct me if I'm wrong on this. I don't think
01:14:21.360there's any way a publicist reviewed that tweet before she posted it. Oh, God. Yeah. And you know
01:14:26.580what else? Like, here's here's another thing I can't help but feel. And maybe a lot of listeners
01:14:31.980are feeling this too, because we have a lot of people who are right of center who listen to the
01:14:34.960program, not all, but a lot. If you are right of center and there's anything on you that telegraphs
01:14:43.120that, whether it's an actual camo hat, not like the one that Tim Walls wore, or you're a cop,
01:14:51.100you don't have to be right of center to be a cop, but the left doesn't tend to love cops,
01:14:54.660or you're in the military, a lot of the left doesn't love military, or you're wearing the
01:14:58.900American flag or you have anything MAGA on you, anything, whatever. You are so used to being
01:15:04.520disrespected like this in every establishment in the major cities. I mean, every, like I lived in
01:15:10.040New York for 17 years. I worked for Fox news for 13 of them. Like I, this is a day ending and why
01:15:15.080for me, like you walk in, in Brooklyn, any establishment in Brooklyn would have treated1.00
01:15:19.680me like literally today I could go into that store that that bitch is going to not even tell1.00
01:15:24.220me about the two grand version. She's going to be like, it's not for sale. Get out. No birds to1.00
01:15:29.600Megyn Kelly. No, I get the middle finger. That's the only bird they'd give me. So like, I just have
01:15:37.420no sympathy for her. I like, I like grow up, take it like a woman. Your life is great. Can I tell1.00
01:15:44.100you something? Again, I, I told a nice story last year about Marlo Thomas, Danny Thomas's daughter,
01:24:38.080We've got to talk about James Tallarico, and we've got to talk about Ilhan Omar, too.
01:24:40.840So Ilhan Omar had a raid on her Washington, D.C. home this morning, which is very interesting.
01:24:50.480It sounds like the DOJ is getting really interested in what Ilhan Omar did to become a U.S. citizen and what Ilhan Omar may have done to help her brother become a U.S. citizen, too.
01:25:07.740Here is what the latest reporting is on it.
01:25:16.520She's representative from Minnesota, but her home was raided in Washington, D.C. by Homeland Security Investigations.
01:25:22.420Reading here from a Fox News report, the raid stems from criminal fraud investigation, a criminal fraud investigation into the Somali-born congresswoman's immigration paperwork, which was filled out by her late father when she was a child.
01:25:37.660Two sources close to the investigation confirmed the details of the probe on Thursday to Fox.
01:25:42.500Weeks after border czar Tom Homan last month said Omar was subject to an ongoing criminal investigation.
01:25:48.620Tom Homan was on TV this morning confirming that a warrant was served against Ilhan Omar.
01:32:51.840So there's a problem in River City. And by that, I mean, Texas.
01:32:59.300Tallarico, when last we checked in on Friday, was missing in action.
01:33:06.140He had the flu and he was gone for nine days.
01:33:08.620And no one believed that he had the flu and was basically off the campaign, I think, for mostly 13 before anybody had seen him in person anywhere.
01:33:17.640At this point in the campaign, you know, early voting is going to be underway.
01:38:34.380Then they put out a tweet that said James Tallarico has never received treatment at the Lindner Center for Hope,
01:38:41.560Which was a little cagey, I've got to say, because received treatment is much more specific than has never checked in, has not been a patient here, was not here over the past nine days.
01:38:52.360I actually tweeted out myself, since they decided to weigh in on it, could you be more specific?
01:38:57.260Like, just let's put this to bed one way or the other.
01:38:59.500I like, I have no idea what happened, but that he's never received treatment here doesn't really answer the question.
01:39:06.740And then James Tallarico seemed to put the whole matter to bed by tweeting out, I've never even been to Ohio.
01:39:11.560with a laughing, crying emoji, which is as explicit a denial as one can get and has the
01:39:16.680ring of truth to it. I mean, that's a very bold lie. If it's not true, God, what a very bold lie
01:39:23.100to say you've never been to the state when in fact you were secretly in one of their mental
01:39:26.540facilities for the past nine days. That to me had the ring of truth to it. But now this Nick Sorter
01:39:31.080is doubling down saying he's got more and it's going to be coming out any day now. You tell me
01:39:38.160what's really going on here, because Ken Paxton seems to be thoroughly enjoying this.
01:39:44.260And James Tallarico is pointing the finger at Paxton saying, because he said, let me see proof
01:39:49.280of life. Paxton did. And Tallarico looked at Paxton and said, let me see proof of a spine.
01:39:54.640And why don't you finally debate me, which you've been refusing to do all along, even though
01:39:59.280President Trump said, debate him. And there will be no Texas debate because Paxton continues to
01:40:05.600refuse. So where does all of that leave us? Well, I think Republicans like Caroline Wren
01:40:09.540know that they legitimately have a huge problem in Texas and saw an opening with Tallarico
01:40:14.380bizarrely out of the campaign trail. I mean, it is incredibly odd to just disappear from the
01:40:21.020campaign trail within a month of the general election in one of the most watched states in
01:40:26.260the country, one of the most watched elections, one of the most high dollar elections, one of the
01:40:30.420most high stakes elections in the country. He says he was sick. Maybe we're going to find out
01:40:34.420that's totally true. Being gone that long for the flu, missing events, that is bizarre. And
01:40:39.280Republicans sensed an opening because they're having so many problems in Texas because their
01:40:44.040candidate is Ken Paxton, who, by the way, I don't begrudge Republican voters for choosing over John
01:40:49.020Cornyn one bit, but he's not exactly the easiest guy to win an election, even in a red state like
01:40:54.720Texas, when gas is $4 a gallon and the president is mired in a war. And so I do think Republicans
01:41:00.780saw an opportunity and a window here to make the story negative about Tallarico rather than having
01:41:07.000Ken Paxton relying just on Ken Paxton making the affirmative case for himself. They're able then
01:41:12.780to shift the conversation to a negative about James Tallarico, which by the way is also pretty
01:41:17.160easy to do. He's not that hard to knock, but Republicans fundamentally are having a hard time
01:41:22.540convincing voters to go with them when the president is unpopular. He's overseeing a bad
01:41:28.720economy that voters, I think, rightfully blame him for much of. And so it's just a tough environment,
01:41:33.580and that's why they wanted to focus on this so much. I have no idea what's real or fake here.
01:41:37.720I do think it's interesting that on the call, you hear someone even correct the person who's
01:41:44.420asking the questions by saying, no, we're in Mason. The woman says, we're not in Hamilton,
01:41:50.240we're in Mason. So if it's a fake, it's a pretty well-conceived fake, well-scripted fake. I don't
01:41:58.000know if it's AI. I don't know if somebody who was on the phone at the Lindner Center made a mistake.
01:42:02.600I suppose it's possible. Maybe there was someone named James someone there. I really have no idea
01:42:07.540what the hell is going on, but I know for sure Republicans want to change the script. That much
01:42:11.220I can understand. I agree with all that. It is strange that, you know, if in fact they had a
01:42:18.560woman on the line who said that James Tallarico had just checked out, that's strange. But that
01:42:23.420woman didn't sound like she totally understood what was going on. And I'm not sure we can put
01:42:28.800any faith whatsoever in that phone call. I don't know this guy who made it, Ryan Amaker. I don't
01:42:34.820know whether he's trustworthy. He tried to shop the story to the Daily Mail and said online on a
01:42:39.940Twitter X space today, I think, uh, said like they wouldn't, they weren't going to go with it because
01:42:46.040they needed to vet it. And he didn't find that like acceptable. He wanted to get it out right
01:42:50.740away. So reason for caution, but I will revert to what I said on Friday, which is I have a real,
01:42:57.860very tough time believing James Tallarico's story that he was just sitting in bed for nine days.
01:43:02.140The pressure was being amped up to an 11 on him by day seven, nevermind eight, nine, and off the
01:43:10.580campaign trail for 13 days in actual person visits. And the fact that he didn't tweet a picture,
01:43:18.300There was no, like, post by his team of him at his house, by his papers, you know, a video message, which is very easy when you're 10 days into the flu, is very suspicious.
01:43:31.460Something is wrong here, which is why people are now jumping to these other, you know, possibilities.