The Megyn Kelly Show - Uncovering the UAP Mystery, and Standing For Your Beliefs, with Lue Elizondo and Jonathan Isaac ｜ Ep. 324

00:00:00.000 When I found out my friend got a great deal

00:00:02.160 on a wool coat from Winners,

00:00:03.760 I started wondering,

00:00:05.440 is every fabulous item I see from Winners?

00:00:08.560 Like that woman over there with the designer jeans. 1.00

00:00:11.260 Are those from Winners?

00:00:12.780 Ooh, or those beautiful gold earrings.

00:00:15.260 Did she pay full price?

00:00:16.600 Or that leather tote?

00:00:17.620 Or that cashmere sweater?

00:00:18.500 Or those knee-high boots?

00:00:20.300 That dress?

00:00:21.080 That jacket?

00:00:21.740 Those shoes?

00:00:22.780 Is anyone paying full price for anything?

00:00:25.800 Stop wondering.

00:00:27.000 Start winning.

00:00:27.940 Winners.

00:00:28.520 Find fabulous for less.

00:00:30.540 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show,

00:00:32.520 your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:41.360 Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:43.120 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:44.380 On Tuesday morning,

00:00:46.840 Congress held the first public hearing

00:00:49.620 on UFOs in half a century.

00:00:53.360 Two Department of Defense officials

00:00:55.140 took questions from members

00:00:56.560 of a House Intelligence Subcommittee.

00:00:58.400 And it turns out,

00:01:00.500 aside from two newly released videos,

00:01:03.840 one of an already identified object,

00:01:07.300 there were few answers

00:01:08.240 in what was supposed to be

00:01:09.500 a moment of transparency

00:01:10.560 for the American people.

00:01:12.320 Eh.

00:01:13.460 Years after investigating,

00:01:15.080 we still don't know

00:01:15.820 what they are

00:01:16.740 or where they came from.

00:01:18.280 But does the lack of definitive answers

00:01:20.340 tell us something anyway?

00:01:21.980 There was certainly a lot to discuss

00:01:23.460 in the closed-door hearing

00:01:25.340 that we weren't allowed to hear.

00:01:28.120 So what's happening?

00:01:29.840 Why aren't there concrete answers?

00:01:32.080 Why can't they be more firm

00:01:34.340 in their pronouncements?

00:01:36.260 Or is it just a matter of being unwilling?

00:01:39.520 Here to discuss the hearing

00:01:40.760 and what's to come

00:01:41.880 is Lou Elizondo,

00:01:44.120 former Pentagon official

00:01:45.060 and former director

00:01:45.940 of the Advanced Aerospace

00:01:47.500 Threat Identification Program

00:01:49.520 or AATIP.

00:01:55.220 Welcome back to the show, Lou.

00:01:56.420 How are you?

00:01:57.160 Great, Megan.

00:01:57.740 Thank you so much for having me.

00:01:59.060 True pleasure.

00:02:00.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:02:00.860 All right.

00:02:01.140 So you give us your summary

00:02:02.700 of what, if anything,

00:02:03.700 we learned on Tuesday.

00:02:05.120 Yeah.

00:02:05.560 Wow.

00:02:06.420 You're right.

00:02:07.040 First of all,

00:02:07.520 it was historic.

00:02:08.880 This is the first time

00:02:10.240 in over half a century

00:02:11.460 that we had U.S. government officials

00:02:13.960 briefing Congress on UFOs.

00:02:15.800 Of course, now we call them UAPs. 0.98

00:02:17.860 There was actually a lot that occurred.

00:02:21.460 And not only was it historic

00:02:23.260 that they were briefed,

00:02:24.760 but before,

00:02:25.480 the last time was during Project Blue Book

00:02:27.360 or the closing of Project Blue Book,

00:02:29.300 where senior Air Force personnel

00:02:30.940 had briefed Congress.

00:02:32.840 Now it is senior DOD officials.

00:02:36.380 So even one would argue

00:02:37.560 even more senior scrutiny

00:02:40.240 is being put on this topic.

00:02:42.220 And I'll tell you,

00:02:43.960 if I may, Megan,

00:02:44.760 I think there was a lot that was said.

00:02:46.800 And I also think,

00:02:47.500 like you say here,

00:02:48.460 there was a lot that remained unsaid.

00:02:50.940 And sometimes you can learn more

00:02:53.260 by what is not said.

00:02:54.860 And so what do I mean by that?

00:02:56.000 Well, besides this being historic

00:02:58.220 and actually a hearing being done,

00:03:01.320 I think it's safe to assume

00:03:02.460 that this is just the beginning.

00:03:03.740 I think it's probably safe

00:03:05.600 to presume at this point

00:03:06.700 there's going to be further hearings

00:03:08.240 with additional people

00:03:10.180 and additional witnesses.

00:03:12.180 A lot of this was pro forma.

00:03:14.000 I think some people were probably

00:03:15.800 expecting some sort of big reveal,

00:03:18.560 like, you know,

00:03:19.460 flying saucers buried under Area 51.

00:03:22.180 Or like an alien that they would hold up

00:03:23.920 and say, we got one.

00:03:25.900 Right.

00:03:26.740 No, this was a little bit more pro forma.

00:03:28.900 And I think to some degree,

00:03:31.880 this hearing would probably equate to that.

00:03:34.300 If you recall, back in June,

00:03:36.940 there was something called

00:03:38.000 the 180-day report

00:03:39.440 that Congress was expecting.

00:03:42.620 And I think a lot of people's expectations

00:03:44.500 initially were,

00:03:46.760 they kind of fell flat.

00:03:48.040 They were disappointed.

00:03:49.500 But in reality,

00:03:50.420 the 180-day report

00:03:51.460 was extremely successful.

00:03:52.960 It achieved,

00:03:53.580 it accomplished

00:03:54.140 exactly what it was supposed to do.

00:03:56.440 And in that case,

00:03:57.580 now we have hearings

00:03:58.520 as a result of it.

00:03:59.660 So let's see if maybe

00:04:01.560 during this talk you and I have,

00:04:03.260 we can maybe

00:04:03.860 deconstruct a little bit

00:04:05.640 what was actually said,

00:04:07.460 what wasn't said,

00:04:08.900 and what was some of the meaning

00:04:10.280 in this historic hearing.

00:04:13.340 Okay.

00:04:13.760 Yes, let's do that.

00:04:14.600 Let's talk about first the fact that

00:04:15.980 they seem to be nosing around

00:04:18.060 on whether,

00:04:19.660 first they ask like,

00:04:20.960 are we the only ones

00:04:22.240 who ever see them?

00:04:23.140 Is this just a uniquely American thing?

00:04:25.180 And the answer was no.

00:04:27.440 There have been reports

00:04:28.340 from other countries,

00:04:29.320 including China.

00:04:30.740 And then there was

00:04:31.620 a little bit more probing on that.

00:04:34.040 Here is just a bit,

00:04:35.520 just for the audience,

00:04:36.460 it's Representative Brad Wenstrup,

00:04:38.820 Democrat from Ohio,

00:04:39.780 questioning the witnesses

00:04:40.480 about the potential

00:04:42.040 of foreign adversary data

00:04:44.580 on this subject.

00:04:46.240 Listen.

00:04:46.780 There are other people

00:04:47.720 besides the U.S. 0.65

00:04:49.800 that have had these experiences

00:04:51.260 and reported them.

00:04:52.800 Is that correct?

00:04:53.820 There are.

00:04:54.400 That's correct.

00:04:55.440 Is it all of our allies

00:04:58.460 or is it allies and adversaries?

00:05:01.020 What have we learned publicly?

00:05:02.540 So some of that,

00:05:03.360 I think, sir,

00:05:03.920 will save for closed session.

00:05:06.240 Well, that goes to my next question.

00:05:08.200 Publicly,

00:05:08.760 have others made anything

00:05:10.840 which would not have

00:05:12.280 to be considered closed?

00:05:13.620 So I don't want you to answer

00:05:14.780 what they've said necessarily.

00:05:17.320 Allies have seen these.

00:05:19.220 China has established 0.96

00:05:20.140 its own version

00:05:21.080 of a UAP task force.

00:05:22.520 so clearly a number

00:05:23.960 of countries

00:05:24.400 have observations

00:05:25.560 of things

00:05:27.140 in the airspace

00:05:27.780 that they can't identify.

00:05:29.080 And do we share data

00:05:31.440 with some,

00:05:32.220 with all?

00:05:33.720 Are they sharing with us?

00:05:36.880 We share data with some

00:05:38.260 and some share data with us.

00:05:40.140 But not necessarily all

00:05:41.560 that have publicly

00:05:42.620 reported something.

00:05:43.800 That's correct.

00:05:44.260 My God,

00:05:45.740 it's like pulling teeth.

00:05:46.740 Just tell the story, man.

00:05:48.680 Right?

00:05:50.160 Yeah.

00:05:50.960 Unfortunately,

00:05:51.660 it's a little more difficult

00:05:53.440 than that.

00:05:53.980 I can tell you

00:05:54.460 when I was running

00:05:55.300 the A2 program

00:05:56.260 some years ago,

00:05:58.140 this is certainly

00:05:59.500 nothing new.

00:06:01.160 A lot of times

00:06:02.080 some officials

00:06:03.840 are forced to dance

00:06:04.760 around the topic.

00:06:06.220 I'll tell you,

00:06:07.240 if I may, Megan,

00:06:08.040 what I find so fascinating

00:06:09.480 here along the lines

00:06:11.300 of information sharing.

00:06:12.360 It's now laws.

00:06:13.340 As most people probably know,

00:06:15.220 the bill that was

00:06:16.480 co-sponsored by

00:06:17.340 Senator Gillibrand

00:06:18.240 and Senator Marco Rubio

00:06:19.700 was pretty historic

00:06:20.960 in itself.

00:06:21.540 Truly a bipartisan

00:06:22.440 bill that went forward

00:06:24.020 and is now law.

00:06:25.560 And within that law,

00:06:26.540 it requires,

00:06:28.000 it enjoins

00:06:28.900 the United States

00:06:29.660 of America

00:06:30.160 to work with its

00:06:31.240 friends and allies,

00:06:32.520 international allies

00:06:33.380 on this topic.

00:06:34.820 It's not a choice.

00:06:35.580 We have to.

00:06:36.940 But here we go

00:06:37.740 into some of the

00:06:38.340 contradictory statements

00:06:39.400 now that I mentioned

00:06:40.180 earlier on.

00:06:41.300 If you listen

00:06:42.160 to the hearing,

00:06:43.080 you have this impression

00:06:44.780 that there's this huge,

00:06:45.800 robust effort underway.

00:06:47.160 We're working

00:06:47.540 with our friends

00:06:48.280 and our allies

00:06:49.020 and we have analysts

00:06:50.340 on board.

00:06:50.940 We're working

00:06:51.240 with the academic

00:06:51.880 communities.

00:06:53.340 But in reality,

00:06:54.780 that's not quite

00:06:55.920 so accurate.

00:06:56.720 In fact,

00:06:57.060 a couple months ago,

00:06:57.960 the Department of Defense

00:06:58.880 when asked,

00:06:59.540 how many people

00:07:00.520 do you have

00:07:01.020 working on this?

00:07:02.300 They said,

00:07:02.760 we have exactly

00:07:03.340 two full-time people

00:07:04.420 working on this topic.

00:07:06.820 So that's problematic,

00:07:08.200 right?

00:07:08.440 There's not a whole lot

00:07:09.120 of analysis

00:07:09.660 and information sharing

00:07:10.680 you can do

00:07:11.360 when you only have

00:07:12.620 two people assigned.

00:07:13.780 Yes,

00:07:13.980 they say all hands

00:07:15.000 on deck,

00:07:15.800 but that's only four hands.

00:07:18.020 That's really not

00:07:18.560 a whole lot.

00:07:19.660 We really need to,

00:07:20.660 yeah,

00:07:21.500 we really need to leverage

00:07:22.200 a lot more.

00:07:23.780 Furthermore,

00:07:24.600 there were some other

00:07:25.580 very interesting things

00:07:26.580 I noted.

00:07:27.180 For example,

00:07:27.600 they talk about

00:07:28.320 one of the questions

00:07:28.960 from the senators.

00:07:29.800 By the way,

00:07:30.240 let me just say this.

00:07:32.700 Forgive me,

00:07:33.360 the congressmen,

00:07:34.040 the reps,

00:07:34.600 not the senators,

00:07:35.540 the members of the House.

00:07:37.400 The committee members

00:07:38.180 were very,

00:07:38.900 very prepared for this.

00:07:40.380 They obviously knew

00:07:41.520 the right questions

00:07:42.300 to ask.

00:07:43.000 And what they were

00:07:43.560 trying to do,

00:07:44.200 in my opinion,

00:07:44.900 was establish a baseline

00:07:46.580 or, if you will,

00:07:48.440 paint a box around

00:07:49.580 the Department of Defense

00:07:50.940 for this particular hearing,

00:07:53.200 knowing that they can

00:07:54.040 come back time and time again

00:07:55.260 and say,

00:07:55.740 well,

00:07:55.980 you said this

00:07:57.260 and now we are seeing this

00:07:58.940 and hold them accountable.

00:08:01.200 If I may,

00:08:02.120 I'd like to bring

00:08:03.520 your attention

00:08:04.120 to one of the points

00:08:05.500 that I found interesting.

00:08:06.620 Sure.

00:08:07.680 A question was asked

00:08:08.540 where they said,

00:08:09.400 well,

00:08:09.540 are you familiar with

00:08:10.400 our nuclear assets

00:08:11.580 being interfered with?

00:08:12.540 And what they're referring to

00:08:13.400 is the famous

00:08:14.300 Maelstrom incident

00:08:15.900 where we had

00:08:16.860 an entire flight

00:08:18.060 of our nuclear missiles

00:08:19.960 deactivated by a UFO.

00:08:21.900 And in fact,

00:08:22.580 not only did you have

00:08:23.700 the commander

00:08:24.220 of that flight

00:08:24.900 come out

00:08:25.720 and inform members

00:08:27.160 of Congress,

00:08:28.360 but there was actually

00:08:29.640 intelligence information reports,

00:08:31.660 IIRs,

00:08:32.620 that were written

00:08:33.220 and submitted

00:08:33.960 and have been released

00:08:35.220 through FOIA.

00:08:35.940 The mere fact

00:08:38.140 that the task force

00:08:39.860 members indicated

00:08:40.820 that we have

00:08:42.160 no idea about that

00:08:43.260 and no,

00:08:44.280 we don't have anything

00:08:45.020 but anecdotal information

00:08:46.180 is absolutely shocking

00:08:48.140 to me

00:08:48.540 because that's

00:08:49.100 extremely low-hanging fruit.

00:08:50.500 Anybody right now,

00:08:51.600 even with a computer,

00:08:52.620 can get into Google

00:08:53.500 and pull some of these

00:08:54.580 what were formerly

00:08:55.840 very,

00:08:56.440 very classified reports

00:08:57.620 that have now been released

00:08:58.500 to the public.

00:08:59.220 They're there.

00:08:59.880 They exist.

00:09:00.420 So why isn't

00:09:02.180 this information

00:09:02.980 being incorporated

00:09:04.200 into the new,

00:09:05.600 what we call

00:09:06.220 the AIM office

00:09:07.160 or A-O-I-M-S-G office?

00:09:10.000 It doesn't seem very smart.

00:09:13.360 You say you're doing this.

00:09:14.780 Let me set this up

00:09:15.580 because we have a soundbite.

00:09:17.520 This is Representative

00:09:18.480 Mike Gallagher,

00:09:19.220 Republican from Wisconsin,

00:09:20.820 questioning one of the,

00:09:23.140 those testifying

00:09:24.140 about Maelstrom Air Force Base

00:09:25.980 in Cascade County, Montana

00:09:27.880 back in 1967

00:09:29.240 and there's a description

00:09:31.220 of what happened

00:09:31.960 and then

00:09:32.520 what we've gleaned from it.

00:09:34.640 Here it is.

00:09:35.260 One such incident

00:09:35.980 allegedly occurred

00:09:36.960 at Maelstrom Air Force Base

00:09:39.920 in which 10 of our

00:09:40.640 nuclear ICBMs

00:09:41.480 were rendered inoperable

00:09:42.540 at the same time.

00:09:43.860 A glowing red orb

00:09:44.760 was observed overhead.

00:09:45.800 I'm not commenting

00:09:46.360 on the accuracy of this.

00:09:47.340 I'm simply asking you

00:09:48.900 whether you're aware of it

00:09:50.000 and whether you have any comment

00:09:51.000 on the accuracy

00:09:51.580 of that report.

00:09:52.340 Let me pass that to Mr. Bray

00:09:53.320 if you've been looking at

00:09:54.320 the UAPs 0.83

00:09:54.780 over the last three years.

00:09:55.600 That data is not

00:09:57.120 within the holdings

00:09:58.120 of the UAP task force.

00:10:00.280 Okay.

00:10:00.980 But are you aware

00:10:01.940 of the report

00:10:03.220 or that the data

00:10:04.500 exists somewhere?

00:10:07.100 I have heard stories.

00:10:10.040 I have not seen

00:10:10.700 the official data on that.

00:10:11.760 So you've just seen

00:10:12.240 informal stories,

00:10:13.760 no official assessment

00:10:15.300 that you've done

00:10:16.700 or exists within DOD

00:10:18.120 that you're aware of

00:10:19.480 regarding the Maelstrom incident.

00:10:22.760 All I can speak to is,

00:10:24.080 you know,

00:10:24.240 what's within my cognizance

00:10:25.220 of the UAP task force

00:10:26.080 and we have not looked

00:10:26.820 at that incident?

00:10:28.620 Well, I mean,

00:10:29.180 it's a pretty high profile incident.

00:10:30.780 I don't claim to be

00:10:31.640 an expert on this,

00:10:32.480 but that's out there

00:10:34.020 in the ether.

00:10:36.400 You're the guys

00:10:37.380 investigating it.

00:10:38.460 I mean,

00:10:38.840 who else is doing it?

00:10:40.000 If something was officially

00:10:40.880 brought to our attention,

00:10:42.080 we would look at it.

00:10:43.160 There are many things

00:10:43.980 that are out there

00:10:44.480 in the ether

00:10:44.800 that aren't officially

00:10:45.640 brought to our attention.

00:10:46.620 How would it have to be

00:10:47.380 officially brought to your attention?

00:10:48.780 I'm bringing it

00:10:49.540 to your attention.

00:10:50.580 This is pretty official.

00:10:51.580 Sure.

00:10:51.960 So we'll go back

00:10:52.700 and take a look at it,

00:10:53.440 but generally there is

00:10:54.520 some authoritative figure

00:10:56.780 that says there is

00:10:57.740 an incident that occurred.

00:10:58.640 We'd like you to look at this.

00:11:00.460 But in terms of just tracking

00:11:01.900 what may be in the media

00:11:02.760 that says that something

00:11:03.600 occurred at this time

00:11:04.480 at this place,

00:11:05.620 there are probably

00:11:06.540 a lot of leads

00:11:07.500 that we would have

00:11:07.960 to follow up on.

00:11:08.640 I don't think we are

00:11:09.180 resourced to do that

00:11:09.960 right now.

00:11:11.540 Some authority figure.

00:11:13.000 Do I qualify?

00:11:14.320 Please do it.

00:11:14.880 Right.

00:11:15.540 And, you know,

00:11:16.420 something that he says

00:11:17.420 that comes out there

00:11:18.760 through, you know,

00:11:19.820 the general public,

00:11:20.780 we'd have to look at.

00:11:21.740 No, this actually,

00:11:22.440 you were the source of it.

00:11:24.100 DOD, this is,

00:11:25.520 this happened to your assets

00:11:26.680 and equities

00:11:27.260 and you actually wrote

00:11:28.420 an intelligence report

00:11:29.420 and an assessment on this.

00:11:31.000 And to say that

00:11:31.540 it's not part of the calculus

00:11:33.220 is, it's, it's,

00:11:34.520 it's unconscionable.

00:11:35.940 I don't understand

00:11:36.600 how someone can,

00:11:37.540 can actually say that,

00:11:39.000 that it's well.

00:11:39.640 What do you guess, Lou?

00:11:40.100 What's happening there?

00:11:41.200 What do you think

00:11:41.700 is happening there?

00:11:43.280 Well, I think there's

00:11:44.140 some obfuscation.

00:11:45.020 If someone doesn't think

00:11:45.960 that, that manipulating

00:11:46.900 our nuclear assets

00:11:47.780 and equities

00:11:48.300 is a national security imperative,

00:11:49.520 then you might need

00:11:50.600 to find another job,

00:11:51.720 especially if you're

00:11:52.580 in the national security arena.

00:11:54.580 Furthermore,

00:11:55.040 there's some other

00:11:55.620 interesting notes

00:11:56.560 I picked up.

00:11:57.320 You know,

00:11:57.460 they, they talk about

00:11:58.420 blue force,

00:12:00.600 blue on blue.

00:12:01.860 And they said,

00:12:02.480 we're, we're sure

00:12:02.980 this is not our technology,

00:12:04.580 which, which is,

00:12:05.700 by the way,

00:12:05.960 is probably a very accurate.

00:12:06.960 Explain that,

00:12:07.480 because we don't know

00:12:08.200 what that is right now.

00:12:09.040 Explain what blue on blue is.

00:12:10.240 So, so blue force

00:12:11.060 this is the way we say

00:12:12.200 in the vernacular,

00:12:12.940 a friendly technology.

00:12:14.840 This is a blue force technology.

00:12:16.620 This is something we,

00:12:17.780 the United States

00:12:18.440 or our allies have developed.

00:12:20.520 And so the three main things

00:12:22.220 you want to look at

00:12:22.900 with the UAP

00:12:23.540 is that our technology,

00:12:25.040 secret technology,

00:12:25.820 that's been maybe tested

00:12:26.960 in a vacuum

00:12:28.040 that are in a bubble

00:12:28.780 and we haven't told

00:12:29.780 everybody else about it.

00:12:30.980 Is it foreign technology 0.96

00:12:32.720 or adversarial technology,

00:12:34.220 Russia, China,

00:12:35.420 or is it something else?

00:12:37.140 Now, what I find very interesting

00:12:38.600 during this testimony,

00:12:40.260 they, they say for the record,

00:12:42.600 well, this is not

00:12:43.620 a blue force technology.

00:12:45.000 This isn't our technology.

00:12:46.300 It's not friendly technology.

00:12:47.980 But then they turn around

00:12:49.400 and they also say,

00:12:50.080 well, we're pretty sure

00:12:51.480 it's not adversarial technology.

00:12:54.580 Well, we know that

00:12:55.380 because China and Russia

00:12:56.160 have their own UAP programs too.

00:12:58.440 So if you're telling me

00:12:59.520 it's not our technology

00:13:00.780 and it's not foreign

00:13:01.700 or adversarial technology,

00:13:02.980 then what is it?

00:13:04.980 I mean, it's, it's,

00:13:06.380 I think it's, 0.85

00:13:06.920 it's a silly way

00:13:07.880 to dance around the topic.

00:13:09.440 I understand social stigma

00:13:11.200 and taboo,

00:13:11.900 but let's, let's call it

00:13:13.080 for what it is.

00:13:13.800 If you don't know what it is,

00:13:14.800 then say you don't know

00:13:15.600 what it is.

00:13:17.200 But let's not try

00:13:18.560 to confuse the topic

00:13:19.720 with Congress

00:13:20.460 by, by trying to explain away

00:13:23.160 things as a drone

00:13:23.960 or a quadcopter.

00:13:24.900 Let's face it.

00:13:26.060 A quadcopter can't fly

00:13:27.720 at supersonic speeds

00:13:28.820 and at 35,000 feet

00:13:30.140 and fly around

00:13:30.760 and then hover over a warship

00:13:31.960 for three hours.

00:13:33.100 We just don't have

00:13:33.980 that technology yet.

00:13:36.020 These are some

00:13:36.820 of the basic questions

00:13:37.860 that need to be answered

00:13:38.740 because these are some

00:13:39.540 of the basic things

00:13:40.560 we are actually encountering

00:13:42.680 with our military forces.

00:13:44.780 I'll tell you another point

00:13:45.940 how they're, how they're,

00:13:46.860 I see them threading

00:13:47.820 the needle on this

00:13:48.620 very cleverly.

00:13:49.900 One of the questions

00:13:50.860 was asked,

00:13:52.100 well, do you acknowledge AATIP?

00:13:53.960 Yes, we acknowledge

00:13:54.920 that the fact that AATIP existed,

00:13:56.440 which was my program.

00:13:58.160 And then, of course,

00:13:59.160 they acknowledged Blue Book,

00:14:00.800 Project Blue Book,

00:14:01.560 which occurred back

00:14:02.400 in the 70s

00:14:03.160 and closed sometime

00:14:04.580 in the 70s.

00:14:06.680 But there's no mention

00:14:07.900 of any programs in between.

00:14:09.560 And in fact,

00:14:10.120 when they asked the question,

00:14:11.460 I believe it was

00:14:12.040 Representative Gallagher

00:14:13.120 who said,

00:14:13.580 are you going back

00:14:14.500 and looking at any

00:14:15.260 of the data

00:14:15.720 that may have been obtained

00:14:16.940 through other programs

00:14:17.860 and efforts?

00:14:18.740 The answer was no.

00:14:20.060 Yeah, they said no.

00:14:20.800 Well, yeah.

00:14:22.240 Wait a minute.

00:14:22.980 Aren't you the Department

00:14:23.880 of Defense

00:14:24.380 and aren't you in charge

00:14:25.640 of looking back

00:14:26.680 at all the data

00:14:27.480 that we have in our history?

00:14:29.460 Because what we do know

00:14:30.360 for a fact,

00:14:31.080 everybody is aware

00:14:31.880 of the TIC-TAC event,

00:14:33.000 the Nimitz event

00:14:33.740 that occurred in 2004

00:14:35.280 involving two F-18s

00:14:37.360 that went to go

00:14:37.960 do an intercept mission

00:14:39.020 and encountered

00:14:39.640 this flying white TIC-TAC.

00:14:42.240 What most people don't know

00:14:43.740 is that same

00:14:44.400 flying white TIC-TAC

00:14:45.560 was also described

00:14:47.380 in the 50s and 60s

00:14:49.020 as a flying white throat lozenge

00:14:50.880 or a flying white butane tank,

00:14:53.100 all doing the same thing,

00:14:54.800 flying at 13,000 miles

00:14:56.520 and able to get

00:14:57.100 a right angle turn.

00:14:58.320 So this data is important.

00:15:00.980 What you want to do

00:15:02.140 is collect as much

00:15:02.980 historical data

00:15:03.680 as you can

00:15:04.160 and then compare

00:15:04.740 and contrast that data

00:15:05.920 to the information

00:15:07.340 we have currently

00:15:08.240 and see if we can identify

00:15:09.460 trends and commonalities.

00:15:12.100 That should be order number one

00:15:13.960 because we spent

00:15:15.020 a lot of your taxpayer money

00:15:16.740 looking at this.

00:15:19.280 It would be nice to know

00:15:20.640 that we're not going to try

00:15:21.600 to reinvent the wheel here

00:15:22.900 and at least pull up

00:15:24.080 that data

00:15:24.500 that you already paid for

00:15:25.680 and let's see

00:15:26.420 if we can start conducting analysis.

00:15:28.060 What we'd already put

00:15:29.240 into the memory bank

00:15:30.220 like that it should be

00:15:31.440 in there for a reason.

00:15:32.620 The Nimitz is a big deal.

00:15:33.780 We talked about that

00:15:34.400 the first time you came

00:15:35.120 on the show

00:15:35.560 which I recommend to everybody.

00:15:37.820 We have a little video of that.

00:15:39.360 This is from 2004

00:15:40.380 taken aboard a Navy fighter jet

00:15:42.320 from the nuclear aircraft carrier

00:15:44.640 USS Nimitz.

00:15:46.220 Watch.

00:15:46.540 There's a whole fleet of them.

00:15:53.500 Look on the ASA.

00:15:55.600 My gosh.

00:15:58.700 They're all going against the wind.

00:16:00.000 The wind's a hundred

00:16:00.540 and point out from the west.

00:16:02.400 Look at that thing, dude.

00:16:12.640 That's not our LNS though, is it?

00:16:14.160 It's not our LNS, dude.

00:16:16.400 But if there's a good thing,

00:16:18.780 it's rotating.

00:16:20.620 And for the listening audience, Lou,

00:16:22.840 describe what those pilots

00:16:24.160 were seeing.

00:16:25.660 Yeah, sure.

00:16:26.220 That actually was an incident

00:16:27.360 from the USS Roosevelt

00:16:28.700 in around the 2015 timeframe.

00:16:32.720 That is very similar

00:16:34.080 to other eyewitness testimony

00:16:35.840 from the Nimitz

00:16:36.680 and from the USS Kid

00:16:38.080 and the Omaha.

00:16:38.540 So that one was not

00:16:39.500 from the Nimitz

00:16:40.040 that I just played.

00:16:40.960 That one was not.

00:16:42.520 That one was actually

00:16:43.500 from another later incident

00:16:45.200 in 2014, 2015

00:16:47.620 from the USS Roosevelt,

00:16:49.180 but equally compelling

00:16:50.300 because what it does,

00:16:51.900 it illustrates

00:16:52.660 that there is an awful.

00:16:54.420 First of all,

00:16:54.840 there's both audio

00:16:55.740 and visual.

00:16:56.580 You can hear the pilots

00:16:57.540 talking about

00:16:58.400 something on the ASA.

00:17:00.440 There's a whole fleet of them.

00:17:01.500 Look on the ASA.

00:17:03.220 Now, what we know

00:17:03.860 through eyewitness testimony

00:17:05.100 later on

00:17:05.700 when we conduct

00:17:06.320 an investigation,

00:17:06.940 they actually saw

00:17:08.360 these objects

00:17:09.120 flying in a V formation.

00:17:10.360 So the video

00:17:12.000 that you see

00:17:12.540 is just one object

00:17:13.820 among many, many objects

00:17:15.280 that are being intelligently

00:17:16.320 controlled by someone

00:17:17.500 or something.

00:17:19.020 Furthermore,

00:17:19.920 you hear them say

00:17:20.600 it's going 120 knots

00:17:22.180 against the wind.

00:17:23.340 Well, that kind of

00:17:24.760 alleviates any idea

00:17:27.800 or notion

00:17:28.580 that this could be a balloon

00:17:29.560 because balloons float

00:17:30.720 with the prevailing wind.

00:17:31.820 They do not fly

00:17:32.440 against the wind.

00:17:33.880 Furthermore,

00:17:34.580 this object

00:17:35.140 is over 20,000 feet

00:17:36.940 in altitude

00:17:37.520 and begins to maneuver

00:17:39.340 in a way

00:17:39.900 turn in a 90 degree angle

00:17:42.460 which an aircraft

00:17:43.820 would then

00:17:44.660 either lose altitude

00:17:45.720 because it's no longer

00:17:47.320 creating lift

00:17:47.980 under its wings

00:17:48.840 or it's going to bank.

00:17:50.460 It's going to turn.

00:17:51.180 Those are the only two options

00:17:52.560 in aerodynamics.

00:17:53.900 In fact,

00:17:54.300 I'll give you

00:17:54.820 a case in point here.

00:17:55.660 I have this little model

00:17:56.380 of an airplane here

00:17:57.380 and when an airplane flies,

00:17:59.660 it's flying like this.

00:18:01.700 It's flying

00:18:02.160 in a straight

00:18:04.500 parallel to the ground

00:18:06.600 and creates lift.

00:18:07.460 When an airplane turns

00:18:09.360 like this,

00:18:10.780 there's only two options.

00:18:12.040 Either going to be able

00:18:12.780 to bank

00:18:13.300 or it's going to fall

00:18:14.780 because the wings

00:18:15.680 are no longer creating lift

00:18:16.980 for the aircraft.

00:18:18.440 And so that's why

00:18:19.260 that video is so interesting

00:18:20.540 because the aircraft

00:18:21.500 does not lose altitude

00:18:23.240 and does not bank

00:18:24.840 and yet is still able

00:18:26.400 to maintain altitude.

00:18:28.580 So that video

00:18:29.420 was very helpful.

00:18:30.840 I will also say,

00:18:32.240 Megan,

00:18:32.480 that there's a lot

00:18:33.300 more videos out there

00:18:34.800 and a lot more recent

00:18:36.200 than 2015.

00:18:37.280 In fact,

00:18:37.620 as recently as two weeks ago,

00:18:39.520 videos continue to come

00:18:40.600 into the Department of Defense.

00:18:43.320 Again,

00:18:43.860 why they chose

00:18:44.640 to show those two videos

00:18:46.400 to Congress this morning.

00:18:48.780 The ones from today?

00:18:49.260 Yeah,

00:18:49.580 we'll get to those.

00:18:51.540 I can only imagine

00:18:52.520 that it's probably

00:18:53.320 because one of them

00:18:54.640 was very easy to explain.

00:18:56.540 There's a lot

00:18:57.300 that really aren't

00:18:58.700 that easy to explain.

00:19:00.700 And if I may here,

00:19:01.700 Megan,

00:19:01.980 last little alibi here,

00:19:03.280 I think it's interesting

00:19:04.820 to note that

00:19:05.460 when they asked them

00:19:06.180 the specific question,

00:19:07.220 do you,

00:19:07.760 the task force,

00:19:08.560 have any recovered material?

00:19:10.640 The answer was,

00:19:12.200 we,

00:19:12.540 the task force,

00:19:13.180 don't have any

00:19:13.700 recovered material.

00:19:15.280 Well,

00:19:15.840 that may be true

00:19:16.760 because the task force,

00:19:17.960 again,

00:19:18.160 is only two people

00:19:19.100 and I've been around

00:19:20.260 for the last,

00:19:21.500 you know,

00:19:21.820 year and a half.

00:19:24.020 The real question is,

00:19:25.300 is the U.S.

00:19:26.240 government possession

00:19:27.220 of any material,

00:19:29.180 exotic material?

00:19:30.840 That's the question

00:19:31.700 that needs to be asked

00:19:32.600 and that's the question

00:19:33.420 that needs to be answered

00:19:34.340 and hopefully

00:19:36.120 at some point

00:19:37.120 we'll get that answer.

00:19:40.200 So your overall theory

00:19:42.220 seems to be

00:19:43.460 UAPs,

00:19:45.200 unidentified aerial projectiles,

00:19:48.560 is that right?

00:19:50.320 Phenomenon.

00:19:50.760 Yeah.

00:19:51.360 Phenomenon,

00:19:51.900 there we go,

00:19:52.380 phenomenon.

00:19:53.000 Because we're not sure

00:19:53.580 if they fly,

00:19:54.320 so we're getting rid

00:19:54.840 of flying.

00:19:56.600 So UAPs,

00:19:57.660 they appear to exist.

00:19:59.740 We don't know

00:20:01.360 exactly what they are

00:20:02.640 and the government

00:20:03.860 is incredibly reluctant

00:20:05.800 to even open the door

00:20:08.120 to the possibility

00:20:09.440 that they're

00:20:10.480 either otherworldly

00:20:12.440 or from some

00:20:14.000 un-understood force

00:20:17.020 of this world.

00:20:18.800 Like something's going on

00:20:20.340 in the earth

00:20:21.520 and has been

00:20:22.640 for a very long time

00:20:23.800 that we're just now

00:20:24.880 coming to see

00:20:26.560 and be able to detect

00:20:28.000 thanks to new technologies

00:20:30.080 and so on.

00:20:31.060 So it doesn't necessarily

00:20:31.960 have to be from outer space

00:20:33.080 in other words,

00:20:33.780 but they seem so reluctant

00:20:35.640 to keep that door open

00:20:37.320 or to want to lead people

00:20:39.060 there at all.

00:20:40.560 Sure.

00:20:41.200 I think there's a lot

00:20:42.860 of reasons for that.

00:20:43.620 First of all,

00:20:44.340 we have to untangle

00:20:45.680 70 years

00:20:46.640 of U.S. government

00:20:48.040 involvement

00:20:48.640 in this topic.

00:20:50.320 That is a fairly tangled

00:20:52.120 ball of yarn

00:20:52.980 to try to,

00:20:54.760 you know,

00:20:55.620 make sense of.

00:20:57.000 And there's a lot

00:20:57.800 of people

00:20:58.200 who had made statements

00:20:59.540 in the past

00:21:00.140 that frankly weren't accurate.

00:21:01.560 So you have to deal

00:21:03.420 with that at some point

00:21:04.300 and admit to the American people

00:21:05.500 that maybe the government

00:21:06.520 wasn't entirely forthcoming

00:21:07.840 on this topic

00:21:09.040 some time ago.

00:21:11.860 And then two

00:21:12.560 comes some of the more,

00:21:14.380 I think,

00:21:14.940 probably real questions.

00:21:18.080 There are,

00:21:18.920 you know,

00:21:19.040 we pay our government institutions,

00:21:20.720 especially national security,

00:21:21.780 to have solutions.

00:21:23.460 And when you have something

00:21:24.440 that's in controlled

00:21:25.180 U.S. airspace,

00:21:26.020 you don't know what it is,

00:21:27.000 you don't know how it works,

00:21:27.960 you don't know where it's from,

00:21:29.000 you don't know its capabilities.

00:21:30.840 That's a really hard conversation

00:21:32.780 to have

00:21:33.420 with somebody

00:21:34.140 in your chain of command

00:21:35.340 and national security.

00:21:37.020 I faced that myself

00:21:38.280 when I was in AATIP,

00:21:39.260 when I was briefing the seniors

00:21:40.480 for the Secretary of Defense.

00:21:42.860 A lot of them

00:21:43.500 did not want to tell the boss

00:21:45.260 what was going on

00:21:46.820 simply because

00:21:47.920 we didn't have

00:21:48.840 any answers yet.

00:21:49.740 And my appeal to them

00:21:51.540 was, look,

00:21:52.780 yes, it's true,

00:21:53.560 we don't have any answers yet,

00:21:54.720 but that shouldn't stop you

00:21:55.700 from informing the boss.

00:21:57.020 The boss needs to know this.

00:21:59.620 So there's that.

00:22:00.660 And then you have

00:22:01.400 what was relayed to me

00:22:02.660 about four months ago.

00:22:04.600 And I want to,

00:22:05.420 if I can here, Megan,

00:22:06.380 please let me caveat,

00:22:07.720 I don't agree with this,

00:22:09.760 but I understand it

00:22:11.380 and I can respect

00:22:12.440 the rationale

00:22:13.200 for this reasoning.

00:22:14.920 So imagine it's now

00:22:16.320 1960s, 1970s

00:22:18.380 for just a moment

00:22:19.080 and let's go back

00:22:19.960 to where we were.

00:22:20.740 Height of the Cold War,

00:22:21.760 winner takes all.

00:22:22.600 We're engaged in proxy wars

00:22:23.860 with Russia

00:22:24.460 and they're engaged with us

00:22:26.080 in a winner takes all

00:22:27.520 chess match

00:22:28.200 for world influence.

00:22:31.340 And along comes

00:22:32.240 these things

00:22:32.760 that we have

00:22:34.380 no idea what they are.

00:22:35.560 We know they're not ours,

00:22:36.480 we're pretty sure

00:22:36.960 they're not Russians,

00:22:37.780 but other than that

00:22:38.620 we really don't know.

00:22:40.160 So the question

00:22:40.800 is basically very simple,

00:22:42.280 very fundamental.

00:22:43.380 There's only three options.

00:22:44.640 Either they're here

00:22:45.740 for good reasons,

00:22:47.780 B, they're here

00:22:48.560 for bad reasons,

00:22:49.600 or C, they're neutral,

00:22:51.400 like us.

00:22:51.920 Maybe they're just here

00:22:52.520 to observe.

00:22:53.680 So let's go through

00:22:54.820 the quick thought exercise

00:22:57.220 if we can

00:22:57.860 of this scenario.

00:23:00.260 Well,

00:23:00.560 some people say

00:23:02.180 they're good

00:23:02.560 and they're here

00:23:03.100 to stop us

00:23:03.660 from engaging

00:23:04.580 in our nuclear tests

00:23:05.900 and whatnot.

00:23:06.600 Well, look,

00:23:07.460 in 1945,

00:23:08.960 not to be obscene,

00:23:10.480 but our country

00:23:11.600 vaporized 500,000

00:23:13.020 human beings

00:23:13.680 as a result

00:23:14.520 of dropping the bomb

00:23:15.440 on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

00:23:17.300 Nowhere were there UFOs

00:23:18.860 to be found.

00:23:19.440 In fact,

00:23:19.820 nowhere were UFOs

00:23:20.840 when we were testing them

00:23:21.660 in the Nevada desert.

00:23:22.580 They weren't there

00:23:23.040 when Pakistan and India 0.70

00:23:24.140 were developing nukes,

00:23:26.260 China, Russia,

00:23:27.020 or anybody else.

00:23:27.740 In fact,

00:23:28.080 when China detonated

00:23:29.200 the largest

00:23:29.740 thermonuclear weapon

00:23:31.340 that mankind

00:23:31.840 had ever devised,

00:23:32.940 Tsar Bomba,

00:23:34.000 nowhere did the UFOs

00:23:35.200 stop it.

00:23:35.740 They did not stop

00:23:36.700 Three Mile Island,

00:23:37.940 Hiroshima,

00:23:39.820 I'm sorry,

00:23:40.480 Fukushima,

00:23:41.340 or Chernobyl.

00:23:42.900 In fact,

00:23:44.280 they didn't stop

00:23:44.860 World War II

00:23:45.520 or Vietnam

00:23:46.340 or COVID

00:23:47.360 or world hunger.

00:23:48.680 So to speculate

00:23:50.240 that UAP

00:23:51.780 are here for our benefit,

00:23:53.500 there really isn't

00:23:54.400 a whole lot of evidence

00:23:55.380 to suggest that.

00:23:56.420 Now,

00:23:56.640 what do we see

00:23:57.460 from a military perspective?

00:23:59.200 We do see signs

00:24:00.640 of what we call ISR,

00:24:02.200 which is Intelligence

00:24:02.880 Surveillance

00:24:03.360 and Reconnaissance,

00:24:04.580 and possibly,

00:24:05.520 possibly IPB,

00:24:07.940 Initial Preparations

00:24:08.980 of the Battlefield.

00:24:09.480 We know that they're

00:24:10.820 interested in our

00:24:11.340 nuclear technology

00:24:12.220 and assets and equities,

00:24:13.580 and we know that

00:24:14.160 they're interested

00:24:14.560 in our military capabilities.

00:24:16.560 So if there is

00:24:18.120 a remote chance,

00:24:19.560 even 10% chance

00:24:20.720 that whatever these are,

00:24:22.000 they're not here

00:24:23.640 for good reasons,

00:24:24.660 maybe there's a plan

00:24:25.640 for these things

00:24:26.260 to come 50 years

00:24:27.500 in the future.

00:24:28.420 Well,

00:24:28.780 what happens

00:24:29.820 the moment

00:24:30.260 that our government

00:24:31.040 acknowledges the reality

00:24:32.460 that these things

00:24:33.600 are real

00:24:34.020 and they're not

00:24:35.760 our technology?

00:24:37.520 Well,

00:24:37.980 inadvertently,

00:24:38.660 you may wind up

00:24:39.580 tipping your hand

00:24:40.480 and predicating

00:24:41.860 an act

00:24:42.540 or an action

00:24:43.420 that we're not

00:24:44.420 ready for yet

00:24:45.080 from a national security

00:24:45.940 perspective.

00:24:46.980 We have a countermeasure.

00:24:48.680 So to admit

00:24:50.300 we have a problem

00:24:51.500 without providing

00:24:52.680 a solution

00:24:53.360 isn't in the best interest

00:24:55.220 sometimes of national security.

00:24:56.860 And by the way,

00:24:57.520 there's a precedent

00:24:58.200 for that.

00:24:58.720 I can tell you

00:24:59.240 that a real case scenario,

00:25:01.660 we were flying U-2s

00:25:02.800 in contravention

00:25:03.460 of the treaty

00:25:05.140 we had with Russia.

00:25:05.980 We were conducting

00:25:07.200 surveillance using

00:25:08.060 our U-2 spy aircraft

00:25:09.220 over Russia itself 0.65

00:25:10.520 and Russia didn't

00:25:12.020 say a thing.

00:25:12.780 It was only until

00:25:13.740 they had the capability

00:25:14.840 to actually shoot

00:25:16.120 one down

00:25:16.580 with an SA-2 missile

00:25:17.860 and show the world

00:25:19.500 the wreckage of that

00:25:20.820 and have,

00:25:21.400 you know,

00:25:22.080 the pilot,

00:25:24.200 Mr. Powers,

00:25:25.660 on display

00:25:26.720 for all to see.

00:25:27.740 Then they admitted

00:25:28.660 we had this capability

00:25:30.140 but we had conducted

00:25:31.420 many overflights

00:25:32.380 before

00:25:32.880 they shot down

00:25:34.100 that U-2

00:25:34.700 and it was only

00:25:35.440 when they could

00:25:35.960 shoot it down

00:25:36.540 did they admit

00:25:37.380 there was a problem

00:25:38.020 to begin with.

00:25:39.640 So who would have

00:25:40.840 the knowledge,

00:25:41.540 you know,

00:25:41.700 because when you see

00:25:42.320 these military fighters

00:25:43.400 in the cockpit

00:25:44.700 of these jets

00:25:45.720 having these

00:25:46.640 astonished conversations,

00:25:47.900 it's very clear

00:25:48.660 they're not in on it

00:25:49.560 and they'd be the ones

00:25:50.740 to run into them,

00:25:51.760 obviously,

00:25:52.440 just based on past experience

00:25:53.520 because this is where

00:25:54.120 it happens

00:25:54.480 in a certain sort of airspace.

00:25:56.100 We talked about this

00:25:56.900 last time on the East Coast,

00:25:58.420 off of the coast of D.C.

00:25:59.680 who would know

00:26:02.020 if under this theory

00:26:04.100 who's got the info

00:26:05.980 and isn't sharing it?

00:26:08.040 Well,

00:26:08.300 the question is

00:26:09.180 what programs existed

00:26:10.440 between my program,

00:26:12.580 ATIP,

00:26:13.220 and Blue Book?

00:26:14.860 That's the million dollar question

00:26:17.220 and why isn't

00:26:18.880 the Department of Defense

00:26:20.120 prying that open?

00:26:22.020 Maybe we need to provide

00:26:23.340 some sort of amnesty

00:26:24.380 for those individuals involved

00:26:26.260 so those non-disclosure agreements

00:26:28.660 that they're bound to

00:26:29.400 like I am

00:26:30.120 are waived

00:26:31.080 so they can start

00:26:31.800 having an open conversation

00:26:33.020 whether it's

00:26:33.600 with the Department of Defense

00:26:34.620 or the intelligence community

00:26:35.700 or in this case, Congress.

00:26:37.440 There are some necessary steps

00:26:39.200 that need to be taken

00:26:40.100 so we can figure it out.

00:26:41.120 I can tell you

00:26:41.540 I personally met an individual

00:26:42.860 who was part of the Navy

00:26:44.700 who said he ran

00:26:45.600 a UFO, UAP program

00:26:47.960 back in the 80s

00:26:48.780 for the Department of the Navy.

00:26:51.460 Well, where's the data?

00:26:52.940 Why hasn't that data

00:26:54.220 been brought into

00:26:55.000 this new umbrella

00:26:56.540 called the AOIMSG?

00:26:59.760 This isn't rocket science really.

00:27:01.980 A lot of this

00:27:02.440 is just common sense

00:27:04.160 and so herein lies

00:27:05.780 part of the frustration

00:27:06.860 because I think Congress senses

00:27:08.440 they're being told

00:27:09.740 two different things.

00:27:10.760 On one hand,

00:27:11.360 they hear from the pilots,

00:27:12.580 they see the videos

00:27:13.320 from the pilots

00:27:14.000 and yet on the other hand,

00:27:16.580 the Department of Defense

00:27:17.560 is saying,

00:27:18.260 well,

00:27:19.120 nothing to see here folks.

00:27:21.100 You know, 0.97

00:27:21.320 most of this is air trash 0.75

00:27:22.680 and space junk

00:27:23.960 and space debris

00:27:24.740 and we're going to

00:27:25.480 figure this all out.

00:27:26.800 Well,

00:27:27.880 that's not really true

00:27:29.200 because let's not forget

00:27:30.600 we have reports

00:27:31.420 going back to the 40s

00:27:32.500 and 50s

00:27:33.040 long before we ever

00:27:34.560 made it to space.

00:27:35.440 We were just entering

00:27:36.540 the jet age.

00:27:37.640 We had barely broken

00:27:38.520 the sound barrier

00:27:39.340 and we were tracking

00:27:40.560 these things

00:27:41.000 doing 13,000,

00:27:41.940 14,000 miles an hour

00:27:43.760 in our low Earth atmosphere.

00:27:45.640 Which is absolutely impossible

00:27:48.700 for one of our jets.

00:27:50.420 We talked about this

00:27:51.520 the last time as well

00:27:52.860 and this was,

00:27:53.740 I made a note

00:27:54.620 of some of these stats

00:27:55.260 because they were just

00:27:56.540 so stunning

00:27:57.260 how fast

00:27:58.480 that these

00:27:59.480 these things went.

00:28:00.880 They were going

00:28:01.740 this spotted

00:28:02.820 by the pilots

00:28:03.440 like on the Nimitz.

00:28:05.380 Normally,

00:28:06.220 let's see,

00:28:06.640 okay.

00:28:07.820 Okay,

00:28:08.080 normally takes you

00:28:08.920 six seconds

00:28:10.140 to go one mile

00:28:11.860 if you're going

00:28:12.720 at the supersonic speed

00:28:13.840 of 760 miles an hour.

00:28:15.860 Speed of flying

00:28:16.360 760 miles per hour

00:28:17.900 would take you

00:28:18.420 six seconds

00:28:19.080 to go one mile.

00:28:20.620 The object that they saw

00:28:21.760 went 60 miles.

00:28:24.860 60 miles

00:28:25.800 instead of just the one.

00:28:28.140 And your point is

00:28:29.200 we are not capable

00:28:30.720 of that.

00:28:31.420 There is nothing

00:28:32.260 we've yet created

00:28:33.420 that can do that.

00:28:35.440 Yeah,

00:28:35.880 you know,

00:28:36.280 let's go back

00:28:37.080 to this little

00:28:37.540 airplane analogy.

00:28:38.600 Forgive me,

00:28:39.080 but it's probably

00:28:39.700 a good way

00:28:40.200 to display it.

00:28:41.380 I think most people

00:28:42.600 are familiar

00:28:43.160 with the SR-71 Blackbird.

00:28:46.300 It was a Lockheed aircraft

00:28:47.720 built by Skunk Works

00:28:48.740 and it flew

00:28:49.960 at hypersonic speeds.

00:28:51.280 Barely Mach 5

00:28:52.300 and this is an aircraft

00:28:54.020 that when it's flying

00:28:55.040 at 3,200 miles an hour,

00:28:57.740 if it wants to take

00:28:58.880 a right-hand turn,

00:29:00.980 it takes roughly

00:29:01.820 half the state

00:29:02.600 of Ohio to do it.

00:29:04.620 And yet,

00:29:05.100 what we are seeing

00:29:06.000 are aircraft,

00:29:07.540 something,

00:29:08.400 that's going

00:29:09.020 much, much faster

00:29:10.460 than that

00:29:10.940 and somehow

00:29:11.560 can do

00:29:12.100 a right-hand,

00:29:13.000 a right-angle

00:29:13.600 turn instantly,

00:29:15.120 something well

00:29:15.820 beyond the

00:29:16.440 biological limitations

00:29:17.620 of anything

00:29:18.240 to withstand.

00:29:19.080 And even from

00:29:19.500 a material science

00:29:20.360 perspective,

00:29:21.540 the G-forces

00:29:22.340 on that

00:29:22.840 are astronomical.

00:29:24.460 The USS Nimitz

00:29:25.500 case alone

00:29:26.380 was very interesting

00:29:27.700 because they were

00:29:28.520 reported by our

00:29:29.340 SPY-1 radar,

00:29:30.980 multi-array,

00:29:31.920 phased-array radar,

00:29:33.240 one of the most

00:29:33.780 sophisticated and capable

00:29:34.900 on the planet

00:29:36.020 at the time.

00:29:36.880 And so you also

00:29:38.420 had the airborne

00:29:39.200 E-2 Hawkeye radar,

00:29:41.820 both looking at

00:29:42.640 the same object.

00:29:44.280 And in some cases,

00:29:45.060 these things were

00:29:45.720 seen come from

00:29:46.840 80,000 feet,

00:29:47.820 which was the

00:29:48.320 upper limit of

00:29:49.120 the envelope

00:29:50.000 at that time

00:29:50.600 for the radar,

00:29:51.840 and within

00:29:52.760 0.7 seconds,

00:29:54.500 50 feet over the

00:29:55.320 water,

00:29:56.020 and then popping 0.82

00:29:56.620 back up again.

00:29:57.300 So 80,000 feet

00:29:59.840 is 0.7 seconds

00:30:02.740 and less than a second.

00:30:04.780 So you're looking

00:30:05.820 at a distance

00:30:07.180 of well over 10 miles

00:30:10.500 in a very, very

00:30:12.100 short period of time.

00:30:15.720 Those type of forces,

00:30:16.860 the energy to do that

00:30:17.940 is incomprehensible.

00:30:19.800 Someone had once

00:30:20.460 estimated it would be

00:30:21.360 all the electrical power

00:30:23.020 of New York City

00:30:23.920 for three years.

00:30:25.940 That sounds so helpful

00:30:27.060 when you can put it

00:30:27.660 in terms like that.

00:30:28.660 More with Lou

00:30:29.180 right after this

00:30:30.080 quick break.

00:30:35.860 So Lou,

00:30:37.080 you're talking about

00:30:38.480 how they say,

00:30:39.020 well, gee, you know,

00:30:39.780 kind of we went dark

00:30:40.700 for a while,

00:30:41.180 and we just don't

00:30:41.560 have that information,

00:30:42.340 and, you know,

00:30:43.320 we really don't have

00:30:43.840 that much in the bank,

00:30:44.820 is kind of what

00:30:45.320 they're saying.

00:30:45.820 You know, like,

00:30:46.320 we're looking into

00:30:46.840 the things that come in.

00:30:48.420 But speaking of the Nimitz,

00:30:50.020 this is kind of

00:30:50.700 what happened with it.

00:30:52.740 The Nimitz had this event

00:30:54.140 where they saw

00:30:55.040 these UAPs,

00:30:56.560 and people were

00:30:57.980 very concerned,

00:30:58.660 and nobody did

00:30:59.220 anything about it

00:31:00.000 until they brought

00:31:00.840 you in.

00:31:02.200 Harry recreated

00:31:03.140 this program,

00:31:03.680 and you were

00:31:04.640 heading it up,

00:31:05.980 and before they knew it,

00:31:07.160 Lou's on the case,

00:31:08.120 and you find out,

00:31:09.520 this is all documented

00:31:10.200 by 60 minutes,

00:31:11.700 you start looking

00:31:13.200 into it,

00:31:14.100 and find out

00:31:15.140 this crazy story

00:31:17.280 from November 2004,

00:31:20.240 2004, right?

00:31:21.040 I think I have

00:31:22.100 that date, right?

00:31:22.800 Yeah, November,

00:31:23.760 yes, ma'am,

00:31:24.220 2004.

00:31:24.980 Actually, my colleagues

00:31:26.620 did a lot of the work,

00:31:28.920 you know,

00:31:29.040 when you're,

00:31:29.440 when you are,

00:31:29.960 you probably know this,

00:31:31.200 when you are the manager

00:31:32.780 or the director

00:31:33.680 of a program,

00:31:34.920 it's really,

00:31:35.540 you're just kind of

00:31:36.420 the senior guy,

00:31:37.080 but there's a lot of people

00:31:38.300 that are doing

00:31:39.200 a lot of the work,

00:31:40.780 you know,

00:31:40.960 the hard work,

00:31:41.720 and really the credit

00:31:42.640 goes to them

00:31:43.440 more than it does me,

00:31:45.220 because they were

00:31:46.080 the ones actually

00:31:46.660 doing the investigation

00:31:47.820 on the Nimitz.

00:31:49.400 How much time passed

00:31:50.220 from the time

00:31:51.140 the Nimitz happened

00:31:52.380 in 2004

00:31:52.820 to when you and your team

00:31:53.980 swooped in

00:31:54.680 to start asking questions?

00:31:56.320 Well, questions started

00:31:57.140 being asked in 2007

00:31:58.640 in earnest.

00:31:59.580 It had gone out

00:32:00.960 that there was

00:32:01.860 an incident there,

00:32:02.760 but our program

00:32:03.520 wasn't created

00:32:04.220 really until 2008.

00:32:06.380 Questions were starting

00:32:07.400 to float around in 2007,

00:32:09.080 and then an earnest

00:32:10.320 investigation

00:32:11.300 was underway.

00:32:13.520 So think about that.

00:32:14.460 You got,

00:32:14.960 just to frame it

00:32:15.580 for the audience,

00:32:16.080 you got these pilots,

00:32:17.300 at least two of them,

00:32:17.980 who experienced

00:32:19.020 these encounters

00:32:20.020 with these UAPs,

00:32:22.380 some of the details

00:32:23.040 of which you mentioned

00:32:23.620 before the break,

00:32:24.660 and they got nobody

00:32:26.780 to talk to.

00:32:27.800 Like, no one's coming

00:32:28.960 to knock on their doors

00:32:29.980 to say,

00:32:31.100 yo, what'd you see?

00:32:33.600 Like, could you document it?

00:32:35.300 What, you know,

00:32:36.720 radar evidence is there?

00:32:38.000 What camera evidence is there?

00:32:39.360 Show us everything

00:32:39.900 that you have.

00:32:41.020 Let us seize the controls

00:32:41.740 of the plane.

00:32:42.060 I don't know,

00:32:42.340 whatever they do.

00:32:43.600 And so for years,

00:32:44.940 these two just went

00:32:45.700 about their lives like,

00:32:46.560 whoa, that was weird.

00:32:47.280 And the way 60 Minutes

00:32:49.000 documented it was,

00:32:50.400 these are two very,

00:32:51.340 very, very respected pilots,

00:32:53.720 by the way.

00:32:54.080 These are not quacks

00:32:55.120 in any way.

00:32:55.640 This is the best of the best.

00:32:58.240 They've never,

00:32:58.700 one of them had never

00:32:59.320 spoken publicly

00:32:59.900 about the encounter

00:33:00.680 until 60 Minutes.

00:33:02.620 USS Nimitz carrier strike group

00:33:04.020 was training about

00:33:04.600 100 miles southwest

00:33:05.420 of San Diego.

00:33:06.280 For a week,

00:33:07.320 the advanced new radar

00:33:08.480 on a nearby ship,

00:33:09.760 the USS Princeton,

00:33:11.080 had detected what operators

00:33:12.400 called multiple anomalous

00:33:14.740 aerial vehicles

00:33:16.120 over the horizon,

00:33:17.480 descending 80,000 feet

00:33:18.900 in less than a second.

00:33:20.100 I mean, Pete,

00:33:20.540 we can relate to that

00:33:21.300 just from when we fly

00:33:22.200 in an airplane.

00:33:22.940 You're up there 30,000 feet.

00:33:24.640 God forbid there's

00:33:25.280 something terrible happens.

00:33:26.960 You know,

00:33:27.340 you know it's going to take

00:33:28.180 more than a second

00:33:28.780 to get down to the ground

00:33:30.140 from 30,000 feet.

00:33:31.240 So this is 80,000 feet

00:33:32.740 in less than a second.

00:33:33.420 They diverted their plane

00:33:35.180 to investigate,

00:33:36.400 found an area of,

00:33:37.640 this is the creepy part,

00:33:39.320 roiling white water

00:33:40.680 the size of a 737

00:33:42.360 in an otherwise calm blue sea.

00:33:46.180 And I want to talk to you

00:33:46.880 about the ocean

00:33:47.500 and all this in a minute.

00:33:49.260 Tic-tac shaped object,

00:33:50.900 size of an F-A-18F

00:33:53.500 with no markings,

00:33:54.440 no wings,

00:33:55.260 no exhaust plumes.

00:33:56.780 And one of the pilots,

00:33:57.940 David Fravor,

00:33:58.660 graduate of Top Gun

00:33:59.400 Naval Flight School

00:34:00.180 and Commander,

00:34:01.420 says when it gets

00:34:03.040 right in front of me,

00:34:04.720 it just disappears.

00:34:06.660 Seconds later,

00:34:07.280 the USS Princeton

00:34:07.980 reacquires the target

00:34:08.980 60 miles away.

00:34:10.740 60 miles.

00:34:12.040 Another crew managed

00:34:12.800 to briefly lock onto it

00:34:14.000 with a targeting camera

00:34:14.860 before it zipped off again.

00:34:16.980 The air crew did file reports.

00:34:20.520 So it's eerie

00:34:21.980 and you have

00:34:22.960 the most credible witnesses

00:34:24.520 you could ever possibly want,

00:34:26.440 right?

00:34:26.680 This isn't some crackpot

00:34:27.980 in the middle of a field

00:34:29.480 in like Nevada.

00:34:31.260 This is the guys

00:34:32.980 we trust to defend

00:34:33.900 this country.

00:34:34.780 God forbid,

00:34:35.520 an attack happens,

00:34:36.480 et cetera.

00:34:37.140 And this is what they find.

00:34:39.760 So do we have any idea

00:34:41.420 whether there are

00:34:43.380 other Nimitz's?

00:34:44.820 We talked about

00:34:45.260 the Roosevelt.

00:34:46.500 Like how many more

00:34:47.420 of those would you suspect

00:34:48.660 there have been?

00:34:50.760 Oh, wow.

00:34:51.560 You know,

00:34:52.100 well,

00:34:53.540 I have to be careful

00:34:54.840 what I can confirm

00:34:56.320 because some of this information

00:34:58.060 is still very sensitive

00:34:58.820 and in some cases classified.

00:35:00.840 But there's numerous

00:35:01.940 incidents like this.

00:35:03.540 I think most recently,

00:35:04.760 I think the media

00:35:05.900 was made aware

00:35:06.480 of the Roosevelt

00:35:07.180 and the Omaha

00:35:07.820 and the Kidd

00:35:08.740 and now looks like

00:35:10.220 a couple other carriers

00:35:11.220 as well.

00:35:13.080 There's anecdotal reports

00:35:14.620 going back

00:35:15.340 to some even conventional ones

00:35:17.280 like the USS Boxer

00:35:18.400 in 1998

00:35:19.040 and even potentially

00:35:20.760 going as far back

00:35:21.940 and interfering

00:35:22.900 potentially,

00:35:23.600 potentially right now.

00:35:24.480 The information is preliminary.

00:35:25.300 But one of our first

00:35:26.560 nuclear carriers

00:35:27.300 in the early 70s.

00:35:29.360 So this information

00:35:30.920 is pervasive

00:35:31.420 and this is again

00:35:32.140 part of the frustration

00:35:33.120 that I feel

00:35:34.540 with my colleagues

00:35:35.360 because the new effort,

00:35:37.960 the new office

00:35:38.680 needs to be looking

00:35:39.780 at this historical data.

00:35:41.700 It's important.

00:35:42.700 It's relevant

00:35:43.200 and it's also

00:35:43.840 low-hanging fruit.

00:35:44.800 It's not that hard

00:35:45.460 to get this information.

00:35:47.080 Secondly,

00:35:47.780 one thing that we don't mention

00:35:49.080 is that these pilots

00:35:49.860 were actually ridiculed

00:35:51.000 when they came back.

00:35:51.980 People made fun of them

00:35:54.160 for reporting this

00:35:55.500 and by the way,

00:35:56.380 you said it correctly,

00:35:57.780 it wasn't just

00:35:58.760 eyewitness testimony

00:36:00.000 that saw it.

00:36:00.760 By the way,

00:36:01.120 there were four pilots,

00:36:02.300 two F-18 aircrafts,

00:36:03.900 both with a pilot

00:36:04.820 and both with wizos

00:36:05.900 or special weapons officers

00:36:07.340 in the back,

00:36:08.480 so a backseater as well.

00:36:09.920 All four of them

00:36:10.880 had eyes down

00:36:12.140 on this Tic Tac.

00:36:13.800 Furthermore,

00:36:14.520 it was picked up

00:36:15.440 on gun camera footage.

00:36:17.480 Furthermore,

00:36:18.120 it was picked up

00:36:18.800 by two separate radar systems.

00:36:20.940 So now you have

00:36:22.600 three separate sensor systems

00:36:24.600 all picking up

00:36:26.040 the same information

00:36:27.580 at the same time

00:36:28.740 at the same place

00:36:29.720 under the same circumstances.

00:36:31.140 Now,

00:36:31.380 my background

00:36:32.260 as a former special agent,

00:36:34.240 if we were in a court

00:36:35.280 of law right now,

00:36:36.560 we would be well

00:36:37.460 beyond reasonable doubt.

00:36:38.860 The jury would have

00:36:39.560 no other alternative

00:36:40.660 but to convict

00:36:41.540 and yet here we are again

00:36:43.480 where we're dragging our feet.

00:36:46.460 We don't want to talk about it.

00:36:47.740 This is uncomfortable.

00:36:48.780 Well, if you talk about it, 0.99

00:36:49.740 we're going to say you're crazy, 0.99

00:36:50.740 you're going to lose 0.99

00:36:51.300 your flight status

00:36:52.100 despite you being

00:36:52.780 a top gun graduate

00:36:53.820 and an instructor

00:36:54.760 and the skipper

00:36:56.060 for the Nimitz,

00:36:57.820 you know,

00:36:58.140 we're going to maybe

00:36:59.200 put jeopardy

00:37:00.240 your security claims.

00:37:02.000 You know,

00:37:02.220 ask me how I know that

00:37:03.500 because for a while

00:37:04.900 they were coming after me

00:37:06.040 when I first broke rank

00:37:07.140 and left the Pentagon.

00:37:08.500 So we have to get rid

00:37:10.140 of the stigma taboo.

00:37:11.200 We have to get rid

00:37:12.120 of the fear

00:37:12.620 of any type of reprisal

00:37:13.860 first and foremost

00:37:14.800 and anybody

00:37:15.720 who may have been associated

00:37:16.800 with any type of legacy effort

00:37:18.240 that the U.S. government

00:37:18.960 was sponsoring

00:37:19.600 needs to have some sort

00:37:21.120 of amnesty,

00:37:22.000 some sort of way

00:37:22.900 where they're not going

00:37:24.140 to be held

00:37:24.660 to their nondisclosure agreement

00:37:26.200 so they can finally

00:37:27.540 tell the authorities

00:37:29.820 what they know.

00:37:30.600 Do you think that'll happen?

00:37:32.120 You know,

00:37:32.300 Marco Rubio's now

00:37:33.260 newly interested in this

00:37:34.340 as you point out.

00:37:35.340 Do you think,

00:37:36.220 and this is bipartisan,

00:37:37.360 do you think

00:37:37.980 that could happen?

00:37:39.940 I do.

00:37:40.760 And it's not just,

00:37:41.580 you know,

00:37:41.920 Senator Marco Rubio.

00:37:43.220 It's on both sides.

00:37:44.760 You have Senator Gillibrand,

00:37:45.880 you have Senator Marco Rubio,

00:37:47.320 you have Warner,

00:37:48.040 you have other folks

00:37:48.900 on the House side

00:37:50.740 such as Gallegos

00:37:52.240 and now Gallagher

00:37:53.800 who's, by the way,

00:37:54.460 asked some fantastic questions.

00:37:56.820 Certainly a man

00:37:57.660 who's very well informed.

00:37:58.620 You have Representative Tim Burchette

00:38:00.700 who's actually gotten

00:38:01.900 beat up a little bit

00:38:02.860 for taking on this topic

00:38:04.920 and, you know,

00:38:05.840 good on him for doing it

00:38:06.980 because at the end of the day,

00:38:08.980 you know,

00:38:09.360 he's on the right side of history.

00:38:11.080 These are our elected officials

00:38:12.720 actually doing their job.

00:38:14.580 They really don't care

00:38:15.420 about politics.

00:38:16.320 They just want to get

00:38:16.960 to the truth of the matter.

00:38:18.240 And this is both Democrat

00:38:19.600 and Republican

00:38:20.420 coming together

00:38:21.220 on this topic.

00:38:23.040 Can we spend a minute

00:38:24.060 on the two videos

00:38:24.760 that they did show Tuesday?

00:38:26.500 There's one

00:38:27.940 of an object

00:38:28.800 zipping past

00:38:30.020 a Navy pilot.

00:38:31.680 Let's take a look at that.

00:38:33.300 I'd love to get your take on it.

00:38:35.060 You can see

00:38:35.800 out an airplane window.

00:38:38.400 That's,

00:38:38.700 in many cases,

00:38:40.340 that's all

00:38:42.020 that a report

00:38:42.640 may include.

00:38:45.360 What did we even see there, Lou?

00:38:47.280 Well,

00:38:47.960 if you slow it down,

00:38:49.700 it's not what,

00:38:51.140 well,

00:38:51.360 first of all,

00:38:51.680 there's a couple things wrong.

00:38:52.660 the fact that

00:38:53.400 a pilot

00:38:54.740 has to use

00:38:55.420 his own personal iPhone

00:38:56.640 instead of

00:38:58.300 the equipment,

00:38:59.720 you know,

00:39:00.700 being able to track it.

00:39:02.320 You know,

00:39:02.520 thankfully,

00:39:02.960 the iPhone worked.

00:39:04.320 The question is,

00:39:05.340 why wasn't

00:39:06.620 the equipment

00:39:07.460 on the aircraft

00:39:08.120 sufficient enough

00:39:09.000 to be used

00:39:10.640 to get you

00:39:11.160 that type of image?

00:39:12.460 Two,

00:39:12.800 what you see here

00:39:13.360 is a still

00:39:13.940 of this thing

00:39:14.680 flying by

00:39:15.780 the aircraft.

00:39:17.200 Keeping in mind,

00:39:18.120 it's not,

00:39:18.580 doesn't have a transponder,

00:39:19.700 it's not squawking,

00:39:21.280 it's not identifying

00:39:22.520 as friend or foe,

00:39:23.940 it is up there

00:39:25.300 at the same altitude

00:39:26.440 of this aircraft.

00:39:27.720 Military aircraft,

00:39:28.740 by the way,

00:39:29.160 nonetheless.

00:39:30.340 So there's

00:39:31.060 an air safety

00:39:32.060 flight issue.

00:39:33.520 There's also

00:39:34.000 the problem

00:39:34.500 that we don't know

00:39:35.480 what's in our own airspace,

00:39:36.780 right?

00:39:37.040 U.S. air domain awareness.

00:39:39.000 We have a,

00:39:39.660 we have,

00:39:40.180 have laws on the books

00:39:41.540 that require us

00:39:42.540 to know what's going on

00:39:44.060 in our controlled

00:39:44.620 U.S. airspace,

00:39:45.500 and yet here is

00:39:46.280 proof positive

00:39:47.140 we don't.

00:39:48.440 And there's

00:39:50.100 no sufficient

00:39:50.740 explanation.

00:39:51.520 When asked

00:39:51.960 what is,

00:39:53.000 the answer

00:39:53.480 was very simple.

00:39:54.360 We don't know.

00:39:56.120 That's a problem.

00:39:57.600 That speaks volumes

00:39:58.840 to the very issue

00:40:00.060 that we've been

00:40:00.520 trying to raise

00:40:01.440 the alarm,

00:40:03.660 if you will,

00:40:04.920 sound the alarm

00:40:05.660 over the last

00:40:06.240 four years

00:40:06.820 because we don't

00:40:08.100 have a good grasp

00:40:08.760 on what's in our airspace.

00:40:09.180 Yeah, we need to.

00:40:09.960 We need to now.

00:40:10.880 We absolutely do.

00:40:11.820 Imagine being at

00:40:12.480 30,000 feet

00:40:13.280 in a commercial aircraft

00:40:14.260 with some of your friends

00:40:15.140 and, you know,

00:40:16.460 the,

00:40:16.660 if you will,

00:40:18.280 the passengers

00:40:19.240 are blissfully unaware

00:40:20.160 drinking a cocktail,

00:40:21.060 but the pilot,

00:40:22.680 meanwhile,

00:40:23.200 and by the way,

00:40:23.760 this is a true story,

00:40:24.800 the pilot is in this

00:40:26.400 white knuckle,

00:40:27.860 you know,

00:40:28.260 nail biting scenario 0.99

00:40:29.360 where he has a UAP

00:40:31.060 getting closer

00:40:31.780 and closer

00:40:32.160 to his aircraft

00:40:32.860 and is about

00:40:33.480 to take an evasive

00:40:34.280 maneuver

00:40:34.680 because he's got

00:40:35.380 200 lives

00:40:36.200 at stake.

00:40:38.220 You know,

00:40:38.820 these are the type

00:40:39.400 of stories

00:40:39.900 that I want

00:40:41.300 Congress to hear.

00:40:42.600 These are the ones

00:40:43.380 where, you know,

00:40:44.240 you want to talk 0.88

00:40:44.860 about air trash

00:40:45.660 and whatnot, 0.76

00:40:47.360 air junk,

00:40:47.940 fine,

00:40:48.380 but that's not

00:40:49.160 what we're talking

00:40:49.620 about.

00:40:49.920 We're talking

00:40:50.360 about breakaway

00:40:51.080 technology that can

00:40:52.140 do things we simply

00:40:53.400 can't do.

00:40:53.980 And the more we obfuscate,

00:40:55.320 the more the Department

00:40:56.380 of Defense is going

00:40:57.120 to be in a situation

00:40:57.900 here where they're

00:40:58.400 going to have to do

00:40:58.900 some serious

00:40:59.440 explaining.

00:41:00.420 Wait,

00:41:00.580 have you heard

00:41:01.160 stories like the one

00:41:02.040 you just told

00:41:02.640 about the commercial

00:41:03.640 airline pilot?

00:41:03.940 Absolutely.

00:41:05.240 Yes,

00:41:05.720 we actually have

00:41:06.420 the interview

00:41:07.780 recorded on camera.

00:41:08.900 So these are

00:41:10.920 very troubling

00:41:12.100 for me because,

00:41:13.680 again,

00:41:14.120 it's not just

00:41:14.580 a flight safety

00:41:15.260 issue.

00:41:16.060 We're dealing

00:41:16.520 with something

00:41:17.140 that is clearly

00:41:18.440 not a balloon

00:41:19.040 or a drone

00:41:19.620 or a quadcopter

00:41:20.520 or anything like

00:41:21.100 that,

00:41:21.400 and it appears

00:41:21.920 that we've been

00:41:22.320 dealing with this

00:41:22.860 for quite some time.

00:41:24.180 You know what?

00:41:24.900 I'm a nervous

00:41:25.380 flyer as it is,

00:41:26.480 Lou.

00:41:26.600 This is not

00:41:27.160 going to help.

00:41:29.140 Okay,

00:41:29.780 it's fine.

00:41:30.520 I can manage it.

00:41:31.980 Let's show

00:41:32.480 video number two,

00:41:34.000 which look like

00:41:35.220 triangles,

00:41:36.280 and they seem

00:41:36.900 to be saying

00:41:37.620 these were later

00:41:38.600 identified as

00:41:39.760 drones.

00:41:40.500 We'll play it.

00:41:42.060 I mean,

00:41:42.880 they're ruling

00:41:43.760 this one out.

00:41:44.440 Here it is.

00:41:45.140 In this video,

00:41:46.760 U.S. Navy personnel

00:41:47.540 recorded what

00:41:48.300 appears to be

00:41:48.860 triangles,

00:41:49.380 some flashing,

00:41:50.260 recorded several

00:41:51.180 years ago off

00:41:52.320 the coast of

00:41:52.740 the United States.

00:41:54.140 This was recorded

00:41:54.960 while the U.S. Navy

00:41:55.740 ship observed a

00:41:57.080 number of small

00:41:58.000 unmanned aerial

00:41:58.900 systems in the

00:42:00.160 area.

00:42:01.180 Importantly,

00:42:01.980 the video was

00:42:03.060 taken through

00:42:03.620 night vision goggles

00:42:04.440 with a single

00:42:05.220 lens reflex camera.

00:42:06.340 These remained

00:42:07.960 unresolved for

00:42:09.000 several years.

00:42:11.440 It looks like

00:42:12.800 a magnetile.

00:42:14.680 I don't know if

00:42:15.060 anybody has kids

00:42:15.660 out there,

00:42:16.040 but it looks like

00:42:17.020 a triangular

00:42:17.560 magnetile that's

00:42:19.400 a little mirrored

00:42:20.480 on the one side

00:42:21.240 just flying through

00:42:21.840 the air.

00:42:23.720 Yeah,

00:42:24.280 so interesting

00:42:25.200 video.

00:42:25.900 This video was

00:42:26.900 obtained,

00:42:27.780 I believe,

00:42:28.720 from the Omaha

00:42:29.320 incident,

00:42:29.940 if I'm not

00:42:30.280 mistaken.

00:42:31.160 I was no longer

00:42:32.120 in ATIP at the

00:42:32.860 time,

00:42:33.120 so I can't speak

00:42:33.880 authoritatively on

00:42:34.900 it,

00:42:35.480 but let me give

00:42:36.860 you a quick

00:42:37.220 analysis.

00:42:38.200 First of all,

00:42:40.260 there are

00:42:41.640 artifacts on

00:42:42.800 cameras,

00:42:43.400 especially night

00:42:44.080 vision cameras,

00:42:45.040 where there's a

00:42:45.880 limitation on what

00:42:47.080 you can do.

00:42:48.040 There's aperture

00:42:48.700 issues,

00:42:49.920 there's even,

00:42:50.560 in some cases,

00:42:51.280 you can have

00:42:51.600 software issues,

00:42:53.680 lens flare

00:42:54.240 issues,

00:42:55.240 and when you

00:42:55.840 see an object

00:42:56.440 that is strobing

00:42:57.400 at a certain,

00:42:58.560 if you will,

00:42:59.000 frequency,

00:42:59.940 it could be

00:43:00.520 navigation lights.

00:43:01.280 It could very

00:43:01.920 well be that

00:43:02.700 this is a

00:43:04.100 drone or a

00:43:05.860 manned aircraft

00:43:06.840 flying over.

00:43:08.600 But here's why

00:43:09.440 this is a problem,

00:43:10.160 because I even

00:43:10.660 said it during

00:43:11.220 your testimony.

00:43:13.860 If you have a

00:43:15.060 drone or an

00:43:16.060 unidentified aircraft

00:43:17.280 flying over a

00:43:18.960 fleet of,

00:43:20.560 if you will,

00:43:21.300 of Navy vessels,

00:43:22.620 and no one is

00:43:24.100 doing anything

00:43:24.620 about it,

00:43:25.220 and they're not

00:43:25.740 your technology,

00:43:26.800 right?

00:43:27.140 They're someone's 0.99

00:43:27.880 technology,

00:43:28.420 and you're

00:43:29.640 just going to

00:43:30.000 sit there

00:43:30.380 admiring the

00:43:30.960 pretty lights,

00:43:31.520 there's something

00:43:31.940 wrong with that,

00:43:32.620 because I can

00:43:33.660 tell you myself,

00:43:34.340 when I was in

00:43:34.920 Washington,

00:43:35.480 D.C.,

00:43:36.340 I lived on a

00:43:37.900 little island in

00:43:38.560 the middle of

00:43:38.880 the Chesapeake

00:43:39.340 Bay,

00:43:40.340 and weekends

00:43:41.000 we'd go out

00:43:41.380 boating.

00:43:42.200 And when the

00:43:42.920 Navy ships would 1.00

00:43:43.560 come into

00:43:44.120 Annapolis during

00:43:45.400 graduation,

00:43:46.620 there was this

00:43:47.380 no-go zone.

00:43:48.760 And by the way,

00:43:49.520 it was patrolled.

00:43:50.260 Everybody who had

00:43:51.260 a boat knew if 0.74

00:43:51.960 you got within a

00:43:52.700 certain distance

00:43:53.320 of that ship,

00:43:54.280 it was absolutely

00:43:55.060 going to light

00:43:55.480 you up.

00:43:55.940 It was going to

00:43:56.380 use lethal force

00:43:57.160 and it was going 0.97

00:43:57.580 to blow you out 0.81

00:43:58.160 of the water.

00:43:59.400 So my question

00:44:00.340 is,

00:44:01.100 we have these

00:44:01.800 objects that have

00:44:02.440 been seen over

00:44:03.420 our Navy vessels

00:44:04.840 and continue for

00:44:06.320 days and days

00:44:07.140 and days to

00:44:08.580 conduct what

00:44:10.220 appears to be

00:44:10.840 some sort of

00:44:11.300 surveillance or

00:44:11.900 reconnaissance,

00:44:12.620 perhaps,

00:44:13.480 and yet there's

00:44:14.080 nothing the Navy

00:44:14.740 does.

00:44:15.480 They don't deploy

00:44:16.200 some counter-drone

00:44:17.000 technology,

00:44:17.740 which we have.

00:44:18.720 They don't try

00:44:19.280 to communicate,

00:44:20.160 try to squawk

00:44:20.820 with the thing,

00:44:21.620 which, by the way,

00:44:22.220 they admitted they

00:44:22.760 don't.

00:44:23.300 They said,

00:44:24.020 no, we don't

00:44:24.640 try to communicate.

00:44:26.040 Well, wait a

00:44:27.060 minute.

00:44:27.200 How is that

00:44:28.700 possible?

00:44:29.180 That's a direct

00:44:29.820 violation of the

00:44:30.760 protocol that the

00:44:31.440 Navy does have. 0.64

00:44:32.520 If there's something

00:44:33.160 flying in its

00:44:33.760 airspace or a boat

00:44:34.620 getting too close,

00:44:35.340 they will absolutely

00:44:36.260 communicate with you.

00:44:37.920 So again, here's

00:44:38.780 part of the

00:44:39.180 contradiction that I

00:44:40.140 see with this

00:44:40.700 testimony.

00:44:41.120 I'm not certainly

00:44:42.040 trying to impugn

00:44:44.900 Secretary Moultrie,

00:44:47.440 Undersecretary of

00:44:48.420 Defense for

00:44:48.960 Intelligence Moultrie,

00:44:50.500 or Scott Bray in

00:44:51.780 any way.

00:44:52.560 But my point being

00:44:53.440 is that a lot of

00:44:54.600 what they said

00:44:55.200 today was really

00:44:56.420 contradictory,

00:44:57.380 either by the

00:44:57.980 evidence or what

00:44:58.660 has been previously

00:44:59.260 said before by the

00:45:01.000 Department of

00:45:01.460 Defense.

00:45:02.020 So it doesn't

00:45:03.480 help their

00:45:04.000 credibility.

00:45:04.980 In an effort to

00:45:05.900 try to be fair and

00:45:06.740 transparent, I think

00:45:09.060 the opposite has

00:45:09.940 occurred with this

00:45:10.820 hearing, I think

00:45:11.580 Congress is now

00:45:12.420 more confused and

00:45:13.380 more baffled than

00:45:14.100 ever before.

00:45:16.000 And that's a shame

00:45:17.500 because we had an

00:45:18.300 opportunity to

00:45:19.420 hopefully clear

00:45:21.020 things up to some

00:45:21.980 degree.

00:45:22.760 And for this reason,

00:45:23.640 I think we're going

00:45:24.220 to have more

00:45:24.620 hearings.

00:45:25.600 I hope we do.

00:45:27.500 All right, quick

00:45:27.960 question for you on

00:45:28.900 this program, ATIP,

00:45:29.840 that you've been

00:45:30.340 mentioning because

00:45:30.900 there was a New

00:45:31.860 York Post report

00:45:32.880 kind of raising

00:45:34.360 questions about this

00:45:35.620 program and your

00:45:36.380 role in it recently.

00:45:37.900 And they released a

00:45:38.760 video claiming that

00:45:39.500 this program, ATIP,

00:45:40.580 was actually, that

00:45:42.140 was just a nickname

00:45:42.820 for a program

00:45:43.620 called OSWAP or

00:45:45.860 something like A-A-W-S-E-P. 1.00

00:45:48.020 OSAP.

00:45:48.720 And that it wasn't

00:45:49.920 really a program you

00:45:50.740 led until after the

00:45:52.480 funding had been

00:45:53.720 cut and that this

00:45:55.520 program, this OSAP,

00:45:58.460 was kind of out

00:46:00.180 there, that they

00:46:01.040 were investigating

00:46:02.220 something called the

00:46:03.060 Skinwalker Ranch in

00:46:04.420 Utah, known for

00:46:06.440 paranormal type

00:46:08.160 activities.

00:46:08.640 and they were

00:46:09.140 basically trying to

00:46:09.840 suggest, I think,

00:46:11.060 that the Skinwalker

00:46:12.220 Ranch is not quite as

00:46:13.940 exciting as the

00:46:15.260 projects you've been

00:46:16.220 discussing and maybe

00:46:18.940 wasn't quite as

00:46:19.960 legitimate and that

00:46:22.660 you kind of are

00:46:23.760 overstating your role

00:46:25.060 to legitimize UFOs.

00:46:27.220 How do you respond to

00:46:27.960 that?

00:46:28.280 Well, yeah, I would

00:46:29.340 say, first of all,

00:46:30.280 you know, if you're

00:46:31.060 into tabloid news and

00:46:32.380 read the tabloids, I

00:46:34.360 rather get it from the

00:46:35.180 source.

00:46:35.420 So in front of me, I

00:46:36.180 have a letter to show

00:46:37.300 your audience.

00:46:38.080 It is from Senator

00:46:39.800 Harry Reid, who was

00:46:40.900 the actual sponsor of

00:46:42.140 this program with his

00:46:44.180 official letterhead, as

00:46:45.940 you can see here.

00:46:47.080 And I'll just read just a

00:46:48.500 short portion for you,

00:46:49.420 and then I'll let you

00:46:50.040 decide.

00:46:51.180 As one of the original

00:46:52.160 sponsors of ATIP, I can

00:46:54.060 state as a matter of

00:46:54.920 record, Lou Elizondo's

00:46:56.080 involvement and leadership

00:46:57.140 role in this program.

00:46:58.600 Mr. Elizondo is a

00:46:59.620 former intelligence

00:47:00.320 officer, has spent his

00:47:02.100 career working tirelessly

00:47:03.260 in the shadows on

00:47:04.720 sensitive national

00:47:05.540 security matters,

00:47:06.400 including investigating

00:47:07.440 UAPs as a head of

00:47:09.020 ATIP.

00:47:09.700 He performed these

00:47:10.440 duties admirably.

00:47:12.280 This is the guy who

00:47:13.420 owned the program.

00:47:14.640 So this is the

00:47:15.880 gentleman who

00:47:16.680 created it with

00:47:17.760 It is April 26,

00:47:21.060 2021, and I'll tell

00:47:22.300 you what, I'm just

00:47:22.800 going to hold it up

00:47:23.300 for you so you can

00:47:23.920 see it.

00:47:25.000 And I don't know if

00:47:27.520 that helps, but

00:47:28.180 signed Harry Reid.

00:47:29.680 Sure.

00:47:29.940 Well, and I have to

00:47:31.180 say that Politico

00:47:32.340 came out and the

00:47:34.320 reporter there said

00:47:35.320 that there's no

00:47:38.560 surprise.

00:47:39.280 They said that you've

00:47:40.060 never lied.

00:47:40.820 I still consider him a

00:47:42.340 credible source and

00:47:43.980 says maybe we should

00:47:45.020 have asked more

00:47:45.460 questions about the

00:47:46.060 origin of this group

00:47:46.920 ATIP.

00:47:47.580 But Megan, look, you

00:47:49.600 have been subject to,

00:47:51.240 I'm sure, the same

00:47:52.060 level of scrutiny as I

00:47:53.320 have.

00:47:54.040 You know, once you

00:47:54.620 become a public

00:47:55.220 figure, you have

00:47:57.000 people out there that

00:47:58.220 are frankly unhinged

00:47:59.400 and they are going 0.93

00:48:00.300 to do whatever they

00:48:01.040 can to just,

00:48:01.780 unfortunately, and

00:48:03.020 they're going to try

00:48:03.560 what they can to

00:48:04.180 discredit you.

00:48:05.540 At the end of the

00:48:06.440 day, look, the truth

00:48:07.640 prevails and we have

00:48:09.240 to continue to do the

00:48:10.300 right thing here.

00:48:11.680 I lost almost

00:48:12.840 everything coming out

00:48:13.900 to have this

00:48:14.400 conversation to

00:48:15.620 include retribution

00:48:16.840 against me by certain

00:48:18.480 elements in the U.S.

00:48:19.540 government.

00:48:21.280 I'm not surprised.

00:48:22.680 Some of these people

00:48:23.640 are being fed

00:48:24.280 misinformation.

00:48:25.780 I don't think they

00:48:26.760 are willfully trying

00:48:27.880 to discredit me.

00:48:28.760 I think they simply

00:48:29.720 are just going off

00:48:30.580 half-baked information

00:48:31.620 and I think their

00:48:32.720 sources are very

00:48:33.440 questionable.

00:48:34.320 And so now what you

00:48:35.140 have is in this

00:48:37.300 Twitterverse, some

00:48:38.840 individuals who are

00:48:39.840 very opinionated and

00:48:41.120 don't have all the

00:48:41.900 facts.

00:48:43.120 And unfortunately,

00:48:44.060 that's the world we

00:48:44.700 live in.

00:48:46.280 Well, you check out.

00:48:48.480 You definitely, I

00:48:49.200 mean, that Harry Reid

00:48:49.940 letter we've seen and

00:48:50.860 we understand.

00:48:51.920 And we talked about

00:48:52.640 some of this the last

00:48:53.300 time too.

00:48:53.900 So, all right.

00:48:54.700 The next time we're

00:48:55.660 going to get into

00:48:56.300 what the hell is in

00:48:58.320 the water and is it

00:49:00.600 not otherworldly but

00:49:02.460 earthly and what do

00:49:04.860 we make of that?

00:49:05.400 All right.

00:49:05.560 So that's a good tease

00:49:06.300 for the next time you

00:49:06.940 come on, Lou.

00:49:07.860 Always a pleasure.

00:49:08.760 Thank you so much for

00:49:09.400 being here.

00:49:10.800 Megan, an honor and

00:49:11.720 privilege.

00:49:12.120 Thank you so much and

00:49:13.080 thank you for what you

00:49:13.860 do.

00:49:14.140 Really appreciate it.

00:49:15.340 You bet.

00:49:15.980 Okay.

00:49:16.280 And don't go away

00:49:17.340 because we're going to

00:49:17.760 be right back with NBA

00:49:18.980 player Jonathan Isaac,

00:49:21.200 who took a stand

00:49:22.780 literally and

00:49:24.100 metaphorically for

00:49:25.860 what he believes in

00:49:27.180 and he'll explain

00:49:28.560 why next.

00:49:32.420 How far would you

00:49:33.680 go to stand up for

00:49:34.900 what you believe in?

00:49:36.200 Would you risk public

00:49:37.400 criticism?

00:49:38.620 The loss of family

00:49:39.540 and friends?

00:49:40.620 Would you risk your

00:49:41.680 hard-earned career?

00:49:43.740 Well, on July 31st,

00:49:44.860 2020, NBA player

00:49:46.180 Jonathan Isaac of

00:49:46.940 the Orlando Magic

00:49:47.740 did exactly that.

00:49:48.920 All of it.

00:49:49.900 He risked

00:49:50.260 everything.

00:49:50.580 When he chose to

00:49:51.900 literally stand for

00:49:52.980 what he believes in

00:49:53.840 in front of millions

00:49:55.300 of basketball fans

00:49:56.180 around the world,

00:49:56.900 Jonathan was the

00:49:57.980 lone NBA player

00:50:00.500 not to kneel

00:50:01.200 during the national

00:50:02.460 anthem in a

00:50:03.680 league-wide

00:50:04.160 demonstration of

00:50:05.240 support for

00:50:06.400 Black Lives Matter.

00:50:08.200 Why did he do it?

00:50:09.740 Jonathan's new book,

00:50:11.140 Why I Stand,

00:50:12.800 out now from our

00:50:13.860 pals at Daily Wire

00:50:14.920 Books,

00:50:15.900 answers this question

00:50:17.340 and much more,

00:50:18.700 including how divine

00:50:20.120 interventions

00:50:20.880 transformed Jonathan's

00:50:22.740 life.

00:50:23.580 Here to discuss it

00:50:24.500 all is the man

00:50:25.360 himself.

00:50:26.400 Jonathan Isaac,

00:50:27.160 welcome.

00:50:28.060 Thank you so much

00:50:28.680 for having me,

00:50:29.180 Megan.

00:50:29.300 I'm excited.

00:50:30.220 I'm excited, too.

00:50:31.480 It's a thrill to

00:50:32.180 meet you.

00:50:33.660 I want to get

00:50:34.500 into all of that.

00:50:35.720 We got to get

00:50:36.300 into all of that

00:50:37.160 because we covered

00:50:37.800 it here, you know,

00:50:38.520 as a show,

00:50:39.720 so it's fun to talk

00:50:40.400 to the person

00:50:40.860 behind all those

00:50:41.720 decisions.

00:50:42.560 But your backstory

00:50:43.680 is inspirational,

00:50:45.440 so we're going to

00:50:46.000 start there,

00:50:46.500 if that's okay with

00:50:47.220 you.

00:50:48.020 Just tell us a little

00:50:48.760 bit about,

00:50:49.360 you grew up in the

00:50:49.860 Bronx before you 0.99

00:50:50.880 moved to Florida,

00:50:51.460 and I love a story

00:50:53.820 about how hardworking

00:50:54.600 your parents were

00:50:55.380 and where you

00:50:55.900 sometimes spent

00:50:56.800 your overnights

00:50:57.480 as a result as a

00:50:58.840 kid.

00:50:59.520 Yeah, so I grew up

00:51:00.800 in Bronx, New York.

00:51:01.600 Again, thank you so

00:51:02.280 much for having me.

00:51:03.700 My mom, my dad,

00:51:05.040 and I had four

00:51:05.840 brothers and one

00:51:06.560 sister, actually three

00:51:07.520 brothers and one

00:51:08.080 sister.

00:51:08.380 My little brother,

00:51:08.980 Jeremiah, didn't come

00:51:09.700 just yet.

00:51:10.800 But yeah, I grew up

00:51:12.000 there and everything

00:51:12.880 was great, honestly.

00:51:13.980 We went to church

00:51:14.760 all the time.

00:51:16.060 One thing that I

00:51:16.600 note in the book was

00:51:17.320 church was just,

00:51:18.140 it was just tradition

00:51:19.120 for us.

00:51:20.100 We went all the time.

00:51:21.980 And then when I was

00:51:23.100 about 10 years old,

00:51:23.940 my parents split up,

00:51:24.820 and that's when the

00:51:25.680 kind of everything

00:51:26.600 started to go wrong

00:51:27.680 in my life in a sense

00:51:28.680 where my mom took us

00:51:30.620 kids and left my dad

00:51:31.700 in New York,

00:51:32.200 and my dad was huge

00:51:33.200 to me.

00:51:33.520 He was like Superman

00:51:34.820 to me.

00:51:35.620 I loved him so much,

00:51:36.660 and I really felt

00:51:37.280 special to him in a

00:51:38.320 way that I didn't

00:51:39.560 feel like my other

00:51:40.320 siblings got to

00:51:40.980 experience with him.

00:51:42.140 But when we split up

00:51:43.120 and I went to

00:51:44.120 Naples, Florida,

00:51:45.040 that's when everything

00:51:45.740 kind of got chaotic

00:51:46.600 because I went from

00:51:48.000 black New York

00:51:49.540 to white Naples,

00:51:51.020 Florida.

00:51:51.740 And I really struggled

00:51:52.740 with fitting in

00:51:53.580 and making friends

00:51:54.340 and kind of getting

00:51:55.560 adjusted to everything.

00:51:56.760 And so I really

00:51:57.340 developed a sense

00:51:58.220 of self-consciousness

00:51:59.820 that I never

00:52:00.300 experienced before,

00:52:01.340 a sense of anxiety

00:52:02.180 and fear about

00:52:03.180 getting my peers

00:52:04.340 to like me.

00:52:05.060 And in the book,

00:52:05.680 there's several stories

00:52:06.640 about how badly

00:52:07.640 I failed at that.

00:52:09.140 But I found

00:52:09.780 basketball,

00:52:10.360 and basketball

00:52:11.220 pretty much

00:52:11.680 became my identity

00:52:13.120 because it got me

00:52:13.940 everything that I

00:52:14.560 thought I ever wanted.

00:52:15.820 The girls like me now, 0.80

00:52:17.180 the guys wanted

00:52:17.900 to play ball with me,

00:52:18.740 so I started to have

00:52:19.440 a sense of belonging.

00:52:20.700 But I still struggle

00:52:21.660 with that anxiety

00:52:22.440 and fear behind the scenes

00:52:23.420 because I always felt

00:52:24.340 like I was going to

00:52:25.340 be the one to get it,

00:52:26.280 to mess it all up.

00:52:27.560 And, you know,

00:52:28.020 people would reject me

00:52:28.980 like I felt like

00:52:29.680 happened with my family

00:52:30.860 and the early experiences

00:52:31.980 that I had in Naples,

00:52:32.920 Florida.

00:52:33.760 But I just,

00:52:34.500 I continued to move

00:52:35.320 forward with basketball,

00:52:36.160 went to Florida State

00:52:36.940 for a year,

00:52:37.860 then to the NBA

00:52:38.580 and all leading up

00:52:40.200 to, you know,

00:52:41.140 the standard.

00:52:42.340 It's amazing

00:52:42.720 because you,

00:52:44.140 you read about

00:52:44.640 your childhood,

00:52:45.280 you weren't like

00:52:45.980 some basketball prodigy

00:52:47.580 when you were young.

00:52:48.520 When you were in the Bronx

00:52:49.480 and your dad was working

00:52:50.680 the overnight shift

00:52:51.260 at the McDonald's

00:52:51.940 and your mom was working

00:52:52.640 an overnight shift

00:52:53.360 and so it was basically

00:52:53.980 who could take the kids

00:52:54.840 at the most safe place

00:52:56.300 overnight?

00:52:56.820 And your dad said,

00:52:57.520 it should probably be

00:52:58.280 McDonald's.

00:52:59.020 You were sleeping overnight

00:52:59.720 at the McDonald's,

00:53:00.540 which is every child's dream.

00:53:03.960 And,

00:53:04.460 but like,

00:53:05.300 it's not like,

00:53:06.040 okay,

00:53:06.240 then you would wake up

00:53:06.980 and you'd go to school

00:53:07.600 and you would just,

00:53:08.080 wow,

00:53:08.500 everybody with your hoop skills.

00:53:10.140 It was like,

00:53:10.860 eh,

00:53:11.640 you're okay.

00:53:12.440 But so when did the magic start?

00:53:14.060 Like when,

00:53:14.440 when was it,

00:53:15.180 when did it click?

00:53:16.840 Well,

00:53:17.280 it didn't,

00:53:18.180 honestly,

00:53:18.560 I wouldn't say it ever clicked

00:53:20.180 until like my last year

00:53:22.780 in high school.

00:53:23.460 But leading up to,

00:53:24.620 I,

00:53:24.900 again,

00:53:25.140 I always felt like

00:53:26.040 this imposter syndrome.

00:53:27.340 So when I first started

00:53:28.260 playing basketball,

00:53:29.280 I was just okay at it.

00:53:30.500 But the more that I

00:53:32.120 kind of dove into it

00:53:33.660 and again,

00:53:33.980 started getting the recognition

00:53:35.140 and praise from other people,

00:53:36.760 the more I gave myself to it.

00:53:38.220 But I always felt like

00:53:39.260 I was going to mess it all up

00:53:40.780 or that I didn't really belong here.

00:53:42.260 So as everybody was telling me

00:53:43.780 how great I was

00:53:44.660 and how far I could go

00:53:45.800 with this thing,

00:53:46.240 I never really believed

00:53:47.120 that I could

00:53:47.720 pretty much until I got here.

00:53:49.320 So I get drafted

00:53:50.200 and I'm in the NBA

00:53:50.820 and I'm like,

00:53:51.360 wow,

00:53:51.740 it actually did happen.

00:53:53.200 It worked.

00:53:53.860 But again,

00:53:54.480 it was because of so many

00:53:55.380 different people that,

00:53:56.200 you know,

00:53:56.640 guided me.

00:53:57.160 Coach Gates in the book

00:53:58.000 was a huge part of getting me

00:53:59.080 to where I am today.

00:54:00.340 And so,

00:54:00.640 yeah.

00:54:01.140 He's the Florida coach,

00:54:02.620 right?

00:54:02.800 The assistant coach

00:54:04.220 who came down

00:54:04.660 and recruited you?

00:54:05.860 Yes.

00:54:06.580 Yeah.

00:54:07.040 There are great stories about him.

00:54:08.780 So speaking about your move to Florida

00:54:10.660 when you were still a young guy,

00:54:12.680 you write in the book,

00:54:14.480 Ma was really a New Yorker

00:54:15.560 from the islands.

00:54:16.280 She wanted me to be

00:54:17.000 the most aggressive

00:54:17.600 and strong kid out there

00:54:18.720 and she was perplexed

00:54:19.700 when I just couldn't do it.

00:54:21.440 She couldn't begin to know

00:54:22.460 any of the things

00:54:23.140 that were affecting me internally.

00:54:24.880 It wasn't her fault.

00:54:26.240 I just wouldn't share.

00:54:27.720 I'd quietly cry

00:54:28.620 in the back of the minivan

00:54:29.620 as she lectured me

00:54:30.660 on not being weak

00:54:31.960 or afraid.

00:54:33.680 So what was happening?

00:54:34.880 What were you going through?

00:54:35.940 Now,

00:54:36.080 just expand on

00:54:36.760 what you were touching

00:54:37.680 on a moment ago.

00:54:39.240 Well,

00:54:39.800 you would have to go back

00:54:40.860 to those earlier stories

00:54:41.980 and when I first got to Naples,

00:54:43.600 there was a big story

00:54:44.540 about me,

00:54:45.180 you know,

00:54:45.460 getting sent

00:54:45.900 to the principal's office

00:54:46.640 because I was roughhousing

00:54:47.800 with a lot of the kids

00:54:48.720 and my mom,

00:54:49.940 you know,

00:54:50.200 showed up

00:54:50.700 and,

00:54:50.900 you know,

00:54:51.560 is having this conversation

00:54:52.920 with the principal

00:54:53.600 and the principal

00:54:54.260 is like scared

00:54:55.540 for these kids' lives

00:54:56.620 because this,

00:54:57.440 you know,

00:54:57.640 new kid from New York

00:54:58.580 showed up

00:54:58.980 and he's beating them up

00:55:00.420 in a sense of,

00:55:00.940 but I was just horse playing.

00:55:01.820 It was normal to me.

00:55:02.940 But that was the first time

00:55:04.180 that I became

00:55:04.800 like very self-conscious

00:55:06.000 where I was like,

00:55:07.220 you know,

00:55:07.520 these people don't see me

00:55:08.760 as I wanted them

00:55:09.760 to see me at first.

00:55:10.860 And so it just developed

00:55:12.700 that fear and anxiety

00:55:13.900 of rejection

00:55:14.820 from other people.

00:55:15.800 And so when I would,

00:55:17.000 when I took on basketball,

00:55:17.960 I never wanted to do something

00:55:19.260 that would make somebody else

00:55:20.460 dislike me.

00:55:21.880 And so I didn't want

00:55:22.480 to show aggression.

00:55:23.220 I didn't want to hurt anybody.

00:55:24.320 I didn't want to,

00:55:25.200 I just didn't want

00:55:26.220 to put anybody else down.

00:55:27.360 So I never trash talked.

00:55:28.440 I just played in silence really.

00:55:30.720 And so my mom,

00:55:31.700 again,

00:55:31.940 this,

00:55:32.200 this tough island,

00:55:33.960 you know,

00:55:34.440 from the islands to New York,

00:55:35.820 she's always like,

00:55:36.680 you need to dominate.

00:55:37.700 And I would have,

00:55:38.640 I would have moments

00:55:39.340 of playing really,

00:55:40.180 really well.

00:55:40.620 And she'd be like,

00:55:41.840 you're the,

00:55:42.280 you're great.

00:55:42.780 And then when I would

00:55:43.420 play poorly,

00:55:44.040 I'd be all in my head

00:55:45.560 thinking about

00:55:46.060 what other people

00:55:46.600 were thinking.

00:55:47.060 Or if I was going

00:55:48.060 to lose her love

00:55:48.840 from playing badly,

00:55:49.980 you know,

00:55:50.180 she just,

00:55:50.680 she didn't know

00:55:51.100 any of that was going

00:55:51.860 on in my head.

00:55:52.420 So she just saw it

00:55:53.200 as you're not playing

00:55:54.320 up to your potential

00:55:55.100 or you're not,

00:55:55.700 you're being weak.

00:55:57.640 And that's a lot

00:55:58.500 to think about

00:55:59.160 as a mom,

00:56:00.000 you know,

00:56:00.300 like messaging

00:56:01.300 with your kid

00:56:02.060 and when,

00:56:03.260 knowing when to push him

00:56:04.180 and when to comfort him.

00:56:05.680 Like that's,

00:56:06.380 that's part of the tricky,

00:56:07.760 the tricky part

00:56:08.380 of being a parent,

00:56:09.040 right?

00:56:09.320 Like you gotta,

00:56:09.740 you gotta get to know

00:56:10.300 your kid

00:56:10.640 and try to judge it.

00:56:11.500 And invariably,

00:56:12.340 we all screw it up.

00:56:14.100 Right.

00:56:14.500 And I think the,

00:56:15.440 the biggest thing

00:56:16.560 that,

00:56:16.860 you know,

00:56:17.380 I wanted at the time

00:56:18.760 was almost to,

00:56:20.080 to,

00:56:20.220 to feel that love

00:56:21.380 and encouragement

00:56:22.000 when I,

00:56:22.620 when I didn't do well

00:56:23.580 and because I was so used

00:56:25.200 to already at such a young age

00:56:26.820 and not because of,

00:56:28.000 of,

00:56:28.260 of her fault

00:56:29.060 or my parents fault at all

00:56:30.040 was what I had developed

00:56:31.020 behind the scenes

00:56:31.760 because of these

00:56:32.320 different instances.

00:56:33.180 But I always felt like

00:56:34.360 I was performing

00:56:35.280 for attention,

00:56:36.560 performing for love.

00:56:37.480 And so when I didn't

00:56:38.540 perform well

00:56:39.180 and I didn't get it,

00:56:40.500 that is,

00:56:40.940 that was when it reaffirmed

00:56:42.040 the fact that

00:56:42.580 the only way

00:56:43.300 that I can get love

00:56:44.400 and attention

00:56:44.820 is to perform well.

00:56:46.500 That makes sense

00:56:46.960 because you,

00:56:47.400 you write about

00:56:47.860 how much you love your wife

00:56:48.820 in the book

00:56:49.480 and about how

00:56:50.600 once you made it

00:56:51.800 to the NBA,

00:56:52.700 it didn't matter.

00:56:53.720 She didn't care whether,

00:56:54.680 I mean,

00:56:54.980 you,

00:56:55.440 you,

00:56:55.720 you met her through

00:56:56.660 church circles,

00:56:57.400 you didn't met her,

00:56:57.900 she wasn't like an NBA fan.

00:56:59.660 But you write about how,

00:57:01.140 no matter how you played,

00:57:02.060 no matter what the scoreboard read,

00:57:04.260 she would find something

00:57:05.700 to compliment you about,

00:57:06.900 make you feel good.

00:57:07.700 And it's all sort of resonating now.

00:57:09.100 It's like,

00:57:09.340 I can see how it all

00:57:10.320 came together

00:57:11.080 and why that was so important

00:57:11.940 for you.

00:57:13.180 Yeah,

00:57:13.400 exactly.

00:57:13.800 And so she,

00:57:14.720 she plays a huge role

00:57:15.880 in that.

00:57:16.740 Doc plays a huge role

00:57:18.040 in the book as well.

00:57:19.200 Doc's a star.

00:57:20.520 Doc is almost,

00:57:22.520 pretty much the star

00:57:23.560 of the book.

00:57:24.360 And that really is ultimately

00:57:25.600 where,

00:57:26.200 you know,

00:57:26.420 my relationship

00:57:27.060 with Christ comes in

00:57:27.960 because the biggest thing

00:57:28.900 for me

00:57:29.320 and not getting

00:57:30.180 into the weeds

00:57:30.800 of the story

00:57:31.440 was just coming

00:57:32.500 to the realization

00:57:33.260 that God loves me

00:57:34.640 for me.

00:57:35.640 Like,

00:57:35.820 I don't have to perform

00:57:36.880 for his love.

00:57:37.520 I don't have to be

00:57:38.160 perfect for his love.

00:57:39.060 And that was the first time

00:57:40.300 that I had this sense

00:57:41.260 of calm and peace

00:57:43.120 and I could then progress

00:57:44.380 in becoming

00:57:45.260 who he's called me to be

00:57:46.300 and progress in my sport.

00:57:47.860 But I believe

00:57:48.760 that God uses people.

00:57:50.080 And in my story,

00:57:50.740 God definitely used people.

00:57:51.920 He used Doc.

00:57:52.840 He used my wife. 0.96

00:57:53.700 He used my church family.

00:57:55.280 He used my family

00:57:56.160 to kind of help foster

00:57:58.800 that in me

00:57:59.360 and teach me

00:57:59.900 what the love of God

00:58:00.680 was like on a personal level.

00:58:02.280 And so having bad games

00:58:03.660 in the league

00:58:04.040 and still being encouraged,

00:58:05.240 still being affirmed,

00:58:06.480 you know,

00:58:06.600 I would play bad

00:58:07.360 and come home

00:58:07.900 and there'd be a cake

00:58:08.640 on my desk

00:58:11.320 from Doc and his family

00:58:12.500 saying, you know,

00:58:13.160 how great I am

00:58:13.960 and all these different things.

00:58:14.900 That was the turning tide

00:58:16.660 for me

00:58:17.060 and kind of waking up

00:58:17.880 to the realization,

00:58:18.860 you know,

00:58:19.220 of a relationship with Christ.

00:58:20.900 Wow.

00:58:21.820 I'm going to try harder

00:58:22.940 when my husband

00:58:23.560 loses the little

00:58:24.560 flag football games

00:58:25.540 that he coaches

00:58:27.300 for my son.

00:58:28.600 I'm going to bake a cake.

00:58:30.300 Before Doc came along,

00:58:31.720 because I do want

00:58:32.100 to get to him,

00:58:32.680 you mentioned Coach Gates.

00:58:33.960 So you are in high school

00:58:35.600 and you're playing well,

00:58:36.920 but you're not

00:58:37.420 in any way thinking,

00:58:38.820 I'm going to go to the NBA.

00:58:39.800 You're just not

00:58:40.500 thinking like that.

00:58:41.680 And then they say

00:58:42.760 out of nowhere,

00:58:43.660 the head coach

00:58:44.980 at Florida State

00:58:45.640 tells his assistant,

00:58:47.040 Coach Gates,

00:58:47.500 to go fly down

00:58:48.240 and check out this kid.

00:58:50.220 So your coach there

00:58:51.240 had told them,

00:58:52.460 you got to see this kid.

00:58:54.320 Coach Gates comes down there

00:58:55.560 and you write in the book,

00:58:56.440 one of the first things

00:58:57.060 he said to me

00:58:57.680 was,

00:58:58.840 young man,

00:58:59.260 I want to offer you

00:58:59.980 a scholarship

00:59:00.440 after he'd watched you.

00:59:01.960 And I want to let you know

00:59:02.720 that although they don't know

00:59:03.780 who you are right now,

00:59:04.720 the world will know

00:59:05.880 who you are.

00:59:06.800 I'm telling you,

00:59:07.940 I can see you being

00:59:08.900 in the top five players

00:59:09.900 in the country

00:59:10.360 in your graduating class.

00:59:12.140 And sure enough,

00:59:13.780 you wound up

00:59:14.880 going to Florida

00:59:16.980 on a scholarship

00:59:18.180 and you wound up

00:59:20.860 from there

00:59:21.620 becoming the second player

00:59:23.080 in Florida State history

00:59:24.400 to enter the draft

00:59:25.740 after only one season.

00:59:28.680 And you write for,

00:59:29.440 as for where I was slated

00:59:30.620 to go in the draft,

00:59:31.600 I could be the highest draft pick

00:59:33.000 for Florida State

00:59:34.220 in some 47 years.

00:59:36.580 So, man,

00:59:36.960 you had it.

00:59:37.660 You had self-confidence issues,

00:59:39.220 but you had no problems

00:59:40.440 in the talent department.

00:59:42.580 Yeah,

00:59:42.860 I really was talented

00:59:44.480 and maybe,

00:59:45.460 you know,

00:59:45.600 not to brag,

00:59:46.220 but it speaks to,

00:59:47.160 you know,

00:59:47.640 how talented I was

00:59:48.720 and kind of am

00:59:49.540 because I was dealing

00:59:50.260 with all these things

00:59:50.900 in the background

00:59:51.400 and still was able to,

00:59:52.620 you know,

00:59:53.060 produce in a way.

00:59:53.980 But yeah,

00:59:54.800 Coach Gates was absolutely

00:59:56.200 huge for me

00:59:57.080 and just,

00:59:57.560 you know,

00:59:57.800 believing in me

00:59:58.480 before I believed in myself.

00:59:59.940 Same thing with Doc,

01:00:00.820 same thing with my wife. 1.00

01:00:02.140 And ultimately,

01:00:02.940 the same thing with God.

01:00:04.400 And so,

01:00:04.900 you know,

01:00:05.620 having him there

01:00:06.340 and having him to just off a cuff,

01:00:08.000 he saw me for one workout

01:00:09.120 and told me that I could be

01:00:10.380 the top five player in my class.

01:00:12.080 I'm like,

01:00:12.700 that's blasphemy.

01:00:13.740 That doesn't make any sense.

01:00:14.620 You have no idea who I am.

01:00:16.260 And again,

01:00:16.820 those are just the things

01:00:17.580 that I'm dealing with.

01:00:18.940 And so,

01:00:19.440 there's a big

01:00:20.480 kind of idea in the book

01:00:23.140 that says,

01:00:23.640 as it is in life,

01:00:25.160 so as it is on the court,

01:00:26.460 so is it in life

01:00:27.160 where you take you

01:00:28.300 everywhere you go.

01:00:29.360 So,

01:00:29.560 all these people see me

01:00:30.540 as this great basketball player,

01:00:32.080 but nothing is going to click

01:00:33.920 until I see it for myself.

01:00:35.820 And so,

01:00:36.140 yeah,

01:00:37.440 so Coach Gates was huge

01:00:38.700 in me getting to where I am today.

01:00:40.680 So then you find out

01:00:43.120 that you are going to be

01:00:43.680 the sixth pick

01:00:44.400 in the 2017 NBA draft.

01:00:46.520 The Orlando Magic selects you

01:00:47.940 from Florida State.

01:00:49.880 And you write,

01:00:50.600 at the end of the night,

01:00:51.520 I knew I couldn't go to sleep

01:00:52.560 without thanking God,

01:00:54.060 even if I was out here sinning.

01:00:55.420 He was somewhere up

01:00:57.480 in all of this.

01:00:58.980 I got on my knees.

01:01:00.420 Thank you, God.

01:01:01.640 That was done.

01:01:02.900 I made it.

01:01:04.080 I made it.

01:01:04.840 There's that moment,

01:01:06.280 that moment, right?

01:01:07.540 Like,

01:01:07.720 that's got to be something

01:01:08.800 where it's like

01:01:09.420 the number of hours,

01:01:10.760 the hard work,

01:01:11.460 the sacrifice,

01:01:12.380 and you get picked

01:01:13.460 number six in the NBA draft

01:01:14.740 and yeah,

01:01:15.420 you look at your creator

01:01:17.220 and you say,

01:01:18.260 thank you.

01:01:19.840 Yeah,

01:01:20.100 it was just super surreal.

01:01:21.980 And as you go farther

01:01:23.160 in the book,

01:01:23.600 you can learn that

01:01:24.760 I wasn't all the way

01:01:25.860 there with God.

01:01:26.700 I had my understanding

01:01:28.180 of Him

01:01:28.820 as a traditional level

01:01:30.780 because of how I grew up.

01:01:32.460 And so,

01:01:32.900 you know,

01:01:33.120 even in that moment,

01:01:33.880 I'm thinking,

01:01:34.300 you know,

01:01:34.420 listen,

01:01:34.780 I'm not out here

01:01:35.240 doing everything

01:01:35.740 that I know I should be doing.

01:01:37.240 You know,

01:01:37.560 I'm messing up

01:01:38.780 in a whole lot of ways,

01:01:39.680 but you have to be somewhere

01:01:40.860 in all of this

01:01:42.100 for me to be,

01:01:42.800 you know,

01:01:43.020 at this current moment.

01:01:44.320 But your parents

01:01:45.080 had laid the foundation

01:01:45.980 and made you memorize Psalms

01:01:47.940 and so on.

01:01:48.640 And that's where Doc comes in.

01:01:49.900 So you move to,

01:01:51.040 Florida.

01:01:52.560 Well,

01:01:52.760 I guess you've been raised

01:01:53.600 in Florida,

01:01:54.080 but you go to Orlando

01:01:56.120 and it's your apartment building

01:01:58.520 where there's some guy

01:01:59.900 who breaks the cardinal rule

01:02:01.440 of like,

01:02:01.840 you don't talk in the elevator.

01:02:02.960 Does he don't make comments

01:02:03.880 to people in the elevator?

01:02:04.760 You certainly don't make comments

01:02:05.740 to an NBA star

01:02:06.620 because they're going to think

01:02:08.220 you're a freaky fan,

01:02:09.300 right?

01:02:09.700 But Doc did not follow

01:02:11.000 those rules

01:02:11.600 and tell us who he was

01:02:12.980 and how the relationship started.

01:02:15.380 Well,

01:02:15.560 he didn't follow the rules,

01:02:16.680 one,

01:02:16.900 because that's just how he is

01:02:17.960 and two,

01:02:18.360 because he didn't know

01:02:18.960 who I was.

01:02:19.600 And so he,

01:02:21.760 this guy stops me

01:02:22.600 on an elevator

01:02:23.000 and he says,

01:02:23.780 I can tell you

01:02:24.720 how to be great.

01:02:25.940 And I'm like,

01:02:26.640 great.

01:02:26.940 Like in the back of my head,

01:02:27.780 like I'm the sixth pick

01:02:28.900 in the NBA draft.

01:02:29.620 What do you mean great?

01:02:30.740 And so he says,

01:02:31.780 I can tell you how to be great.

01:02:33.020 And I say,

01:02:33.620 tell me.

01:02:34.020 And he says,

01:02:34.500 you have to know Jesus.

01:02:36.060 And I'm like,

01:02:36.940 geez,

01:02:37.320 and I'm saying this

01:02:38.240 in the back of my head.

01:02:38.680 I say,

01:02:39.000 you know,

01:02:39.220 I am Jesus.

01:02:40.000 I know Jesus.

01:02:41.040 I'm Christian.

01:02:41.980 And kind of just move on

01:02:43.260 from there.

01:02:44.140 And,

01:02:44.220 but what's so profound

01:02:46.420 and again,

01:02:47.260 about how ultimately

01:02:48.860 God was in the middle

01:02:49.820 of this connection

01:02:50.640 and ultimately took it

01:02:51.520 to where he wanted it to go

01:02:52.580 was that Doc didn't know

01:02:53.980 anything about what

01:02:54.640 I was going with

01:02:55.340 behind the scenes

01:02:56.080 or anything

01:02:57.180 that I was struggling with.

01:02:58.140 He just saw this guy

01:02:58.940 on the elevator

01:02:59.360 and said that,

01:03:00.280 but God knew.

01:03:01.320 And so I see him

01:03:02.440 on the elevator

01:03:02.940 and that exchange happens.

01:03:04.640 And I don't want to give

01:03:05.240 too much away of the story,

01:03:06.760 but from then on,

01:03:08.240 my life honestly

01:03:09.080 just gets flipped upside down

01:03:10.440 and I start to see God

01:03:12.200 make himself real to me

01:03:13.400 in a matter of coincidences

01:03:15.420 and leading me

01:03:16.540 in different places

01:03:17.260 and just seeing all these

01:03:18.520 different puzzle connections work.

01:03:20.440 And I was able

01:03:20.860 to take a step back.

01:03:22.340 And again,

01:03:23.320 Doc was a huge part of that,

01:03:24.280 but I don't want to give

01:03:24.760 too much away,

01:03:25.780 but I was able to take

01:03:26.560 a step back and say,

01:03:27.620 wow,

01:03:27.980 like God,

01:03:28.820 you really do love me.

01:03:29.920 Like I'm not out here.

01:03:31.360 I was hell bent

01:03:32.420 on experiencing everything

01:03:33.500 that the NBA had to offer.

01:03:34.940 So I was having fun.

01:03:35.880 I was doing my thing

01:03:36.700 and there's a guy

01:03:37.860 that's out there

01:03:38.560 searching for me

01:03:39.580 in order to help me

01:03:40.600 heal these things

01:03:41.280 that I'm dealing with

01:03:41.960 and ultimately

01:03:42.440 because he wants to be

01:03:43.400 in a relationship with me

01:03:44.440 and because he loves me.

01:03:45.800 And so I have this kind of,

01:03:47.640 you know,

01:03:48.160 epiphany moment

01:03:49.020 where I say,

01:03:49.740 no,

01:03:50.240 this is too crazy.

01:03:51.720 This is real.

01:03:53.340 You know,

01:03:53.520 and I remembered a prayer

01:03:54.680 that I prayed in youth group

01:03:55.820 when I was a little kid.

01:03:56.740 It's like,

01:03:57.300 you know,

01:03:57.680 Jesus be Lord of my,

01:03:59.600 come into my heart

01:04:00.300 and be Lord of my life.

01:04:01.120 So I prayed that

01:04:01.640 on the side of my bed

01:04:02.540 and from that moment on,

01:04:03.780 it was just the,

01:04:04.360 the start of the journey

01:04:05.860 to me getting to

01:04:06.640 where I am today.

01:04:07.500 You know,

01:04:07.640 I started going to the church.

01:04:09.160 Dr. Hepburn was actually a pastor

01:04:10.760 and I didn't know about it

01:04:11.880 and I found out about it later

01:04:13.560 and it's just,

01:04:14.320 it was just perfect.

01:04:15.240 And I love the way

01:04:16.220 that the story is written

01:04:17.100 and I love the way,

01:04:18.000 you know,

01:04:18.440 that my story is just,

01:04:19.580 it just is.

01:04:20.620 Well,

01:04:21.000 you know what I see in it?

01:04:21.900 You know,

01:04:22.060 they say,

01:04:22.460 we've talked about this

01:04:23.120 on the show,

01:04:24.040 courage is,

01:04:24.800 it's built.

01:04:25.780 You know,

01:04:26.020 it's not like

01:04:26.540 you just are courageous

01:04:27.660 or you're not.

01:04:28.600 It's built

01:04:29.180 and you get it

01:04:30.860 by taking small,

01:04:33.000 courageous steps

01:04:34.020 that one day

01:04:35.620 will eventually become

01:04:36.480 large,

01:04:37.320 courageous steps

01:04:38.060 because you'll just be more,

01:04:39.940 you'll be less risk averse

01:04:41.360 and you'll be a little bit more bold

01:04:43.220 and you'll just get to know yourself better

01:04:44.900 and what you can handle.

01:04:45.940 And you can see that

01:04:47.040 very clearly

01:04:47.920 in the course of this book.

01:04:49.660 And there,

01:04:50.320 and there's some of our small examples

01:04:51.580 and some are big,

01:04:52.280 but when I,

01:04:53.360 when I read it,

01:04:53.980 I realized

01:04:54.740 how you got to be the guy who stood.

01:04:56.500 It was very clear

01:04:57.400 how you got to be the guy who stood.

01:04:58.820 And it wasn't just

01:04:59.660 your connection with God

01:05:00.520 and your beliefs.

01:05:01.140 It was a lifetime of

01:05:02.720 taking these little steps

01:05:04.680 of like,

01:05:05.720 but this is what I believe in,

01:05:07.240 but I'm going to try to stand up

01:05:08.440 for what I believe in,

01:05:09.180 even if it's hard.

01:05:10.620 You stood up,

01:05:11.840 Doc asked you to give a sermon

01:05:12.840 in church

01:05:14.180 and you were like,

01:05:15.300 what?

01:05:15.900 Right?

01:05:16.140 So like,

01:05:16.420 that's scary.

01:05:17.520 Public speaking is people's number one fear

01:05:19.160 above death,

01:05:20.280 above death.

01:05:21.800 So you did it,

01:05:22.880 right?

01:05:23.100 And that had some blowback

01:05:25.120 that was unfortunate

01:05:26.220 and unfair.

01:05:27.920 And not to cut you off,

01:05:29.680 but it wasn't even the fact

01:05:31.020 that,

01:05:31.440 that just that I did it,

01:05:32.460 it was because of,

01:05:33.540 I was the kind of person

01:05:34.780 that would never have done it,

01:05:36.460 you know,

01:05:36.720 ever because of the different things

01:05:38.400 that I,

01:05:38.780 the anxiety and the fear

01:05:40.060 that I struggled with growing up.

01:05:41.420 So it,

01:05:42.120 it was really an example

01:05:43.640 and a testament to me

01:05:44.720 growing in my faith

01:05:45.780 and that what I was doing

01:05:47.140 at the moment with,

01:05:47.960 you know,

01:05:48.660 having a real relationship

01:05:49.740 with Christ was like,

01:05:50.680 I was changing

01:05:51.360 and I was growing

01:05:52.480 and I was becoming better

01:05:53.500 and I was,

01:05:53.960 I was becoming the man

01:05:55.220 that God,

01:05:55.880 you know,

01:05:56.160 wants me to become

01:05:57.040 and I'm still on that journey

01:05:58.220 to becoming.

01:05:59.220 And so,

01:05:59.580 you know,

01:06:00.200 once you,

01:06:00.720 like you said,

01:06:01.200 once you get to that bubble moment,

01:06:02.420 it's like,

01:06:02.800 you can look back down the line

01:06:03.980 and say,

01:06:04.420 this isn't the Jonathan Isaac

01:06:05.960 that was just that day.

01:06:07.680 This Jonathan Isaac was born

01:06:09.080 and grew over a period of time

01:06:11.660 and facing these different challenges.

01:06:13.380 And,

01:06:13.960 but I grew in faith.

01:06:15.380 I grew in trust

01:06:16.240 that God had me

01:06:17.140 and each step that I took,

01:06:18.500 I was like,

01:06:18.840 God,

01:06:19.080 you're real.

01:06:19.860 Your word is true.

01:06:20.720 And that thing,

01:06:21.820 that is what gave me the boldness

01:06:23.080 and courage to stand up

01:06:24.600 and ultimately declare his word.

01:06:27.080 Mm-hmm.

01:06:28.840 And honestly,

01:06:30.000 you have to read the book

01:06:31.200 to hear the whole story,

01:06:31.980 but grew in some cynicism

01:06:33.320 when it comes to the media

01:06:34.260 and misrepresentation

01:06:35.280 of what actually happens in life

01:06:36.880 because that sermon

01:06:38.000 was on YouTube

01:06:38.640 and it was misrepresented

01:06:39.700 as some sort of a knock

01:06:40.580 on his teammates,

01:06:41.140 which it wasn't at all.

01:06:42.440 But that's what the media does.

01:06:43.740 You know,

01:06:43.880 they twist

01:06:44.320 and they obfuscate

01:06:45.240 and they,

01:06:45.700 they like to misrepresent

01:06:46.880 and create controversy

01:06:47.800 and acrimony,

01:06:49.140 which is exactly

01:06:49.920 the opposite

01:06:50.400 of what God wants for us.

01:06:52.180 So you,

01:06:52.840 you navigate through that.

01:06:54.280 Now,

01:06:54.400 there was another moment

01:06:55.360 I wanted to ask you about

01:06:56.140 because I didn't realize

01:06:56.780 that when you're a rookie player

01:06:57.780 in the NBA,

01:06:58.520 it's like being a rookie

01:06:59.720 Supreme Court justice

01:07:00.640 in a way

01:07:01.500 where I don't think

01:07:03.640 they had Amy Coney Barrett

01:07:04.940 do what your guy

01:07:06.760 had you do in the NBA,

01:07:08.200 you know,

01:07:08.380 your senior.

01:07:09.680 I think they just have her

01:07:10.580 refill the water jug.

01:07:12.020 But can you tell us

01:07:13.360 that story

01:07:13.680 about how the,

01:07:14.420 you're sort of the,

01:07:15.480 the gopher

01:07:16.080 when you're the first year,

01:07:17.320 the rookie guy

01:07:17.980 and what was your task

01:07:19.560 and what happened there?

01:07:21.260 Yeah,

01:07:21.660 every,

01:07:22.140 every team is different

01:07:23.040 and every guy

01:07:24.040 in the league is different.

01:07:25.620 But when I got to the,

01:07:26.920 when I got to the NBA

01:07:27.740 and I was a rookie,

01:07:28.540 you know,

01:07:28.740 you have your vet

01:07:29.540 and my job at the time

01:07:31.720 was,

01:07:32.140 you know,

01:07:32.380 whenever I get that,

01:07:33.400 you know,

01:07:33.600 that text,

01:07:34.140 that call,

01:07:34.520 whatever,

01:07:34.760 I would go to the store

01:07:35.960 or when we first get

01:07:36.940 to a new city,

01:07:37.760 I would go to the store

01:07:38.740 and I would buy some condoms

01:07:39.960 and I would be the one

01:07:40.920 who would,

01:07:41.340 you know,

01:07:41.800 pass them out

01:07:42.440 and give them to a guy 0.84

01:07:43.900 and kind of just leave it at that.

01:07:45.980 But this is all happening

01:07:47.860 around the time

01:07:48.920 that again,

01:07:49.320 I'm growing in faith

01:07:50.380 and I'm saying,

01:07:51.040 you know what,

01:07:51.460 God,

01:07:51.760 like I want to start doing things

01:07:53.440 your way

01:07:53.940 and living your way.

01:07:54.940 So I started to examine my life

01:07:56.340 and find different places

01:07:57.740 where I knew,

01:07:58.760 you know,

01:07:59.200 couldn't have been pleasing to God

01:08:00.520 and that was one of them.

01:08:01.340 And so again,

01:08:02.880 having this moment

01:08:03.640 of facing fear and anxiety,

01:08:05.500 I,

01:08:06.520 with Doc's,

01:08:07.200 with Doc's guidance,

01:08:08.760 you know,

01:08:09.000 decided to actually go

01:08:10.120 and speak to this teammate.

01:08:12.080 But what I,

01:08:12.820 what I really wanted

01:08:13.580 to shine through in the book

01:08:14.940 was that I wasn't judging him.

01:08:16.540 And when I had the conversation

01:08:17.540 with him,

01:08:17.960 I said,

01:08:18.300 you know,

01:08:18.900 you know,

01:08:19.660 I've been really trying

01:08:20.700 to get right with God lately.

01:08:21.960 And so it's not a knock on you.

01:08:23.740 I'm not,

01:08:24.280 I'm not,

01:08:24.620 you know,

01:08:25.060 condemning you

01:08:25.640 or thinking you're a bad person.

01:08:26.800 I understand how hard it is

01:08:27.800 to be in the NBA

01:08:28.620 and,

01:08:28.920 and do what we do,

01:08:30.460 but,

01:08:30.760 you know,

01:08:30.860 this is where I'm at

01:08:31.760 and,

01:08:32.460 and,

01:08:32.780 you know,

01:08:32.860 I can't do this for you anymore.

01:08:34.200 And so that's where

01:08:34.880 that conversation went,

01:08:35.760 but I really wanted him to know

01:08:37.200 that I don't think

01:08:37.780 I'm any better than him

01:08:38.700 or,

01:08:38.960 or anything like that.

01:08:40.480 We all are in need of grace.

01:08:41.780 We all make mistakes.

01:08:42.660 We all sin at the end of the day.

01:08:44.960 And he was cool about it.

01:08:46.680 He was,

01:08:47.080 he was.

01:08:48.320 I mean,

01:08:48.620 like it's good

01:08:49.260 because sometimes

01:08:50.100 those small steps of courage

01:08:51.400 can be rewarded

01:08:52.080 and sometimes not so much.

01:08:53.920 And how it turns out

01:08:55.820 can affect

01:08:56.320 whether you take the next one.

01:08:57.580 So that one worked out okay.

01:08:58.880 So,

01:08:59.560 okay,

01:08:59.760 now you're playing in the NBA

01:09:00.900 and I don't know anything

01:09:02.640 about sports.

01:09:03.720 I mean,

01:09:04.000 truly,

01:09:04.280 I know very little,

01:09:05.000 but as I understand it,

01:09:06.200 you were very good.

01:09:07.200 I can do my thing.

01:09:11.220 Okay.

01:09:11.900 So I'm just talking

01:09:12.540 about your rookie season now

01:09:13.520 because I'm,

01:09:13.780 I'm building up to 2020,

01:09:15.440 the summer of 2020,

01:09:16.460 but you got injured.

01:09:18.320 But like when you were playing

01:09:19.720 and you were uninjured,

01:09:20.980 you seemed to me

01:09:22.200 like you were on fire.

01:09:24.820 I was doing okay.

01:09:25.760 And I've gotten,

01:09:26.680 what was,

01:09:27.920 what's been interesting to me

01:09:29.580 is I've,

01:09:30.740 I've gotten better every year.

01:09:32.020 And honestly,

01:09:32.660 I haven't played a whole lot.

01:09:33.860 So I've been,

01:09:34.540 I've been injured,

01:09:35.540 you know,

01:09:35.820 pretty much each season,

01:09:36.840 except for my,

01:09:37.880 I'd say my second year,

01:09:38.740 I played the majority

01:09:39.400 of the season.

01:09:40.060 This,

01:09:40.440 the third one,

01:09:41.060 I got,

01:09:41.440 you know,

01:09:41.780 injured and missed the fourth one

01:09:43.900 and missed the fifth one.

01:09:45.100 But,

01:09:45.620 but I grew as an individual.

01:09:48.600 And so again,

01:09:49.860 talking about as it is on the court,

01:09:51.780 so is it in life.

01:09:52.700 Like I grew in life.

01:09:54.220 I grew as a man.

01:09:55.400 I grew in my confidence.

01:09:56.440 I grew in my boldness.

01:09:57.440 I grew in understanding

01:09:58.800 of who I am

01:09:59.680 and it translated

01:10:00.540 to the basketball court.

01:10:01.580 And so the fear

01:10:03.240 and the anxiety

01:10:03.940 that I would play

01:10:04.620 with my rookie year

01:10:05.540 was starting to dwindle

01:10:06.720 down and down and down

01:10:07.800 as I began to learn

01:10:08.980 how to trust God

01:10:09.760 on the basketball court

01:10:10.580 because I was trusting him,

01:10:11.640 you know,

01:10:12.040 in my everyday life.

01:10:13.080 And so it was,

01:10:14.320 it was a,

01:10:14.820 it was a nice mirror.

01:10:16.320 I think,

01:10:16.700 I think it's a mirror

01:10:17.320 in everybody's life.

01:10:18.420 You know,

01:10:18.960 ultimately.

01:10:20.160 What was the rookie year?

01:10:21.560 Like what,

01:10:22.120 what two years did it span?

01:10:24.440 The rookie year was,

01:10:25.780 was 2017.

01:10:26.780 And I had,

01:10:27.740 I had injured my ankle

01:10:28.820 to start the season

01:10:30.120 and then came back

01:10:32.180 and injured it right away again.

01:10:33.600 And then pretty much

01:10:34.800 finished the,

01:10:35.600 finished the season

01:10:36.140 while being on limited minutes.

01:10:37.520 And then they just had me sit.

01:10:39.540 Okay.

01:10:40.020 Okay.

01:10:40.280 So,

01:10:40.700 so now let's flash forward,

01:10:41.980 flash forward to the summer of 2020.

01:10:44.380 We're in the pandemic

01:10:45.680 and in May of 2020,

01:10:49.480 we see the death of George Floyd.

01:10:53.380 And that was a videotape

01:10:54.740 that a lot of people

01:10:55.840 found too disturbing to watch.

01:10:57.400 Anybody who did watch it

01:10:58.520 found it just awful.

01:11:00.720 And,

01:11:01.260 but you're, 0.91

01:11:01.700 you're a black man in America 0.79

01:11:02.860 who's obviously had 0.97

01:11:04.060 some racist experience in the past.

01:11:05.820 I mean,

01:11:06.160 I know because I've seen the book

01:11:07.460 and I just know it's the,

01:11:08.680 it's the truth.

01:11:10.180 And how does that affect you?

01:11:12.880 So what happened to George Floyd

01:11:14.960 was obviously tragic.

01:11:16.220 And,

01:11:16.800 you know,

01:11:17.260 what's,

01:11:17.480 what's happened in our world

01:11:18.820 and is happening right now

01:11:20.160 is obviously tragic.

01:11:21.400 What I tried my best to do

01:11:23.100 was to take a step back

01:11:24.560 and say,

01:11:25.080 well,

01:11:25.840 how,

01:11:26.560 what,

01:11:26.740 what is the right way

01:11:27.500 for me to respond

01:11:28.680 in a way that can bring

01:11:30.520 the most change?

01:11:32.120 The same way that people

01:11:33.260 who,

01:11:33.660 who decided to kneel

01:11:34.600 or disagree with me

01:11:35.680 made a decision for themselves

01:11:37.760 about,

01:11:38.400 you know,

01:11:38.680 what they wanted to do,

01:11:39.520 which was kneel for the national anthem

01:11:40.800 and wear a Black Lives Matter t-shirt.

01:11:42.520 For me,

01:11:42.920 it wasn't.

01:11:43.920 In that moment,

01:11:44.820 looking at my life

01:11:45.560 and saying,

01:11:46.160 the love of Jesus Christ

01:11:47.500 is the thing that has changed me,

01:11:48.860 that has helped me

01:11:49.580 and has me where I am today.

01:11:51.340 I couldn't think of a better

01:11:53.320 or a greater message

01:11:55.020 or antidote

01:11:56.200 for the problems

01:11:57.620 that we see,

01:11:58.360 the,

01:11:58.480 you know,

01:11:59.460 racism and all the different things

01:12:00.760 that ultimately plagued

01:12:01.860 the hearts of men.

01:12:02.860 I couldn't see a better antidote for it.

01:12:04.540 And so I decided

01:12:05.720 to not step into a fight,

01:12:07.920 not step into a political moment,

01:12:09.800 not step into,

01:12:10.640 you know,

01:12:10.960 the craziness of what was happening

01:12:12.240 at the moment

01:12:12.780 and say,

01:12:13.300 I have an opportunity

01:12:14.420 to be a mouthpiece of,

01:12:16.080 you know,

01:12:16.580 hope in what I ultimately believe

01:12:17.980 is going to change this country

01:12:19.420 if we can,

01:12:20.440 if we can choose

01:12:21.260 to see it that way.

01:12:22.640 And so I decided

01:12:23.240 to just stand up

01:12:23.760 and give the gospel.

01:12:25.840 What do you mean?

01:12:26.640 What do you mean?

01:12:27.280 To live the gospel

01:12:28.240 or you mean,

01:12:28.680 was there a moment

01:12:29.140 where you actually preached

01:12:29.820 the gospel with the team?

01:12:31.540 Well,

01:12:32.420 in the,

01:12:32.740 in the,

01:12:33.100 the press conference

01:12:34.160 right after.

01:12:35.140 And so once,

01:12:35.700 once.

01:12:35.800 Okay.

01:12:36.040 So now we're,

01:12:36.740 now we're getting ahead

01:12:37.200 of ourselves.

01:12:37.840 Stand by,

01:12:38.300 stand by.

01:12:38.660 We'll go back.

01:12:39.800 Yeah,

01:12:40.100 no,

01:12:40.240 that's okay.

01:12:40.640 Well,

01:12:40.840 it's good.

01:12:41.420 Your story works chronologically.

01:12:42.700 So that's what the way I'm doing it.

01:12:43.580 So July 31st,

01:12:45.020 2020 comes

01:12:45.740 and the team

01:12:48.560 behind the scenes

01:12:49.920 says,

01:12:50.320 we've got to do something

01:12:51.040 like this is where

01:12:51.900 you all go to,

01:12:52.600 into the bubble.

01:12:53.420 All the teams are playing

01:12:54.000 in the bubble

01:12:54.420 and,

01:12:55.500 you know,

01:12:55.980 we're still,

01:12:56.500 we don't have COVID figured out.

01:12:57.660 We don't know what we're doing

01:12:58.340 and people are upset

01:13:01.320 and decide

01:13:02.360 we got to do something.

01:13:03.260 And so how did that come about?

01:13:04.900 Like the team

01:13:05.540 and you're sitting there

01:13:06.240 and they're talking about their plan

01:13:07.600 and you're thinking something else.

01:13:09.620 So take us to that moment.

01:13:11.480 So after it all happened,

01:13:13.600 there were,

01:13:13.920 there were murmurs of,

01:13:15.380 you know,

01:13:16.320 the players deciding to,

01:13:17.700 to kneel

01:13:18.340 and,

01:13:18.800 and wear the t-shirt,

01:13:19.860 but it was,

01:13:20.440 it wasn't confirmed.

01:13:21.740 I think the only thing

01:13:22.700 that was confirmed

01:13:23.320 was that they were going to have

01:13:24.300 Black Lives Matter t-shirts

01:13:25.280 as the warmup t-shirts,

01:13:26.480 but,

01:13:27.240 uh,

01:13:28.180 the,

01:13:28.340 the kneeling wasn't confirmed

01:13:29.640 until the first team did it.

01:13:31.800 So I don't exactly remember

01:13:33.140 what team it was,

01:13:34.100 but the first team

01:13:35.080 that did it in the bubble 0.80

01:13:35.940 and then one more team did it.

01:13:37.500 And that now was like,

01:13:38.480 the next day was coming

01:13:39.660 and we were set to play.

01:13:41.000 And so now we have this team meeting

01:13:42.980 and they're like,

01:13:44.100 yo,

01:13:44.340 we don't have a choice.

01:13:45.640 You know,

01:13:45.860 there,

01:13:46.040 there is no conversation here.

01:13:47.480 We have to kneel.

01:13:48.500 Um,

01:13:48.900 and,

01:13:49.020 and,

01:13:49.320 you know,

01:13:49.660 granted,

01:13:49.920 there were plenty of guys

01:13:50.880 who wanted to kneel,

01:13:51.700 but definitely the sentiment

01:13:52.740 in the room was like,

01:13:54.000 there's no need

01:13:54.720 to have this conversation

01:13:55.620 because this is just

01:13:56.420 what it has to be.

01:13:57.080 We can't be the only team

01:13:58.120 not to kneel.

01:13:59.060 Um,

01:13:59.420 and then that's when

01:14:00.320 the question was passed to me.

01:14:01.940 And I think,

01:14:02.700 you know,

01:14:02.940 knowingly because they,

01:14:03.820 they,

01:14:04.020 they,

01:14:04.160 they know who I am.

01:14:05.480 And somebody asked me,

01:14:06.540 you know,

01:14:06.760 Jonathan,

01:14:07.040 what are you going to do?

01:14:08.500 And I said,

01:14:09.560 listen,

01:14:09.940 fellas,

01:14:10.260 I'm not going to kneel

01:14:11.300 and I'm not going to put

01:14:12.020 that t-shirt on.

01:14:13.080 And that's when,

01:14:13.640 uh,

01:14:14.400 you know,

01:14:14.860 you know,

01:14:15.140 chaos ensues.

01:14:16.360 And,

01:14:16.740 uh,

01:14:17.060 we kind of just leave

01:14:17.980 the meeting with everybody

01:14:19.360 just do what you want

01:14:20.260 because,

01:14:20.740 you know,

01:14:20.960 this thing is going

01:14:21.500 to be crazy.

01:14:22.380 Um,

01:14:22.700 and then we get

01:14:23.220 to the next day

01:14:23.920 and it happens.

01:14:25.940 So before we get

01:14:26.960 to the video,

01:14:28.020 why,

01:14:29.100 why did you stand?

01:14:30.620 Why did you refuse

01:14:31.540 to kneel?

01:14:32.840 Well,

01:14:33.300 I,

01:14:33.500 I,

01:14:33.840 again,

01:14:34.020 I just,

01:14:34.400 I,

01:14:34.600 I couldn't see,

01:14:35.680 you know,

01:14:36.020 seeing all the things

01:14:37.260 that were going on

01:14:38.300 at the moment,

01:14:38.880 I'm thinking for myself,

01:14:40.100 what is the answer?

01:14:42.080 And for me,

01:14:43.200 I didn't see

01:14:43.980 what was going on

01:14:44.740 with kneeling,

01:14:45.460 you know,

01:14:46.380 kneeling in for the

01:14:47.400 national anthem

01:14:47.820 and wearing a t-shirt

01:14:48.660 or,

01:14:49.440 you know,

01:14:49.560 the Black Lives Matter

01:14:50.460 organization

01:14:51.080 as the answer,

01:14:52.620 not only for that moment,

01:14:53.980 but for the world

01:14:54.740 at large.

01:14:55.740 And so as I looked

01:14:56.680 at my own life

01:14:57.360 and said,

01:14:57.680 I know what has changed me,

01:14:58.920 I know what has helped me,

01:14:59.960 I know what has helped

01:15:00.980 countless people

01:15:01.720 and ultimately what is,

01:15:03.100 what is going to be

01:15:04.340 the thing that changes

01:15:05.060 the world

01:15:05.540 and that's the gospel

01:15:06.400 and that's the love

01:15:07.000 of Jesus Christ

01:15:07.600 if we're willing to,

01:15:08.420 if we're willing to show

01:15:09.300 it and share it.

01:15:10.320 And so,

01:15:10.680 uh,

01:15:11.600 that's,

01:15:12.040 that's why I decided

01:15:12.760 to stand.

01:15:13.240 I had a conversation

01:15:13.880 with my pastor

01:15:14.520 the night before

01:15:15.220 and ultimately said,

01:15:16.640 listen,

01:15:16.860 it's,

01:15:17.060 it's bigger than skin color.

01:15:18.440 It's the hearts of men

01:15:19.540 that need to be changed

01:15:20.360 and racism

01:15:21.160 is not the only thing

01:15:22.220 that plagues the hearts

01:15:22.920 of men,

01:15:23.580 but I know that the gospel

01:15:24.740 changes the hearts of men.

01:15:26.260 And so,

01:15:26.620 uh,

01:15:27.120 so yeah,

01:15:27.420 so we had a conversation

01:15:28.280 that was like,

01:15:28.800 look,

01:15:29.120 this thing is going

01:15:30.200 to be crazy.

01:15:30.800 It's not going to be

01:15:31.500 something that I just do

01:15:32.320 and it just blows over.

01:15:33.380 I'm going to get a lot

01:15:34.060 of backlash and attack

01:15:35.120 for it.

01:15:35.600 And he was like,

01:15:36.400 look,

01:15:36.640 you may,

01:15:36.980 you may be standing

01:15:37.800 alone in that bubble,

01:15:38.780 but I'm standing

01:15:39.380 right there with you.

01:15:40.280 And my,

01:15:41.020 uh,

01:15:41.480 you know,

01:15:41.660 my,

01:15:41.900 my girlfriend at the time

01:15:43.040 was,

01:15:43.500 you know,

01:15:43.940 is now my wife.

01:15:44.740 She said the same thing.

01:15:45.500 I'm,

01:15:45.760 I'm,

01:15:45.900 I'm with you.

01:15:46.920 Um,

01:15:47.160 I know you're going

01:15:47.700 to be standing

01:15:48.080 out there alone,

01:15:48.660 but I'm standing

01:15:49.120 right there with you.

01:15:49.980 And,

01:15:50.420 uh,

01:15:50.560 you know,

01:15:50.840 the,

01:15:51.060 the sentiment

01:15:51.540 that came out

01:15:52.280 of it was a whole

01:15:52.800 lot of encouragement

01:15:53.380 from other Christians

01:15:54.200 and people who

01:15:54.720 understood my perspective.

01:15:56.060 Um,

01:15:56.560 and then,

01:15:57.040 you know,

01:15:57.220 the next day it happened.

01:15:58.680 Hmm.

01:15:59.060 All right.

01:15:59.440 We've got video of it

01:16:00.420 and,

01:16:01.180 um,

01:16:01.960 and of a reporter

01:16:02.840 asking you a question

01:16:04.240 about it.

01:16:06.080 Let's watch.

01:16:07.500 So you didn't kneel

01:16:08.140 during the anthem,

01:16:08.760 but you also didn't wear

01:16:10.260 a Black Lives Matter shirt.

01:16:11.900 Uh,

01:16:12.300 do you believe

01:16:12.760 that Black Lives Matter?

01:16:14.900 Absolutely.

01:16:16.040 I believe that Black Lives Matter.

01:16:17.740 Um,

01:16:18.740 a lot went into my decision

01:16:20.100 and part of it is,

01:16:21.280 first off,

01:16:22.180 um,

01:16:22.820 it's,

01:16:23.320 it's my thought that,

01:16:24.320 you know,

01:16:24.860 kneeling or wearing

01:16:25.860 a Black Lives Matter t-shirt,

01:16:27.480 um,

01:16:27.920 don't go hand in hand

01:16:28.900 with supporting Black Lives.

01:16:30.620 And so,

01:16:31.320 um,

01:16:32.120 I felt like just me personally,

01:16:34.300 um,

01:16:34.660 and what it is that I believe

01:16:35.700 and standing on the stance

01:16:36.580 that,

01:16:37.300 um,

01:16:37.900 I do believe that Black Lives Matter,

01:16:39.540 but I,

01:16:39.880 I just felt like it was a decision

01:16:41.680 that I had to make

01:16:42.400 and I,

01:16:43.080 I didn't,

01:16:43.760 um,

01:16:45.240 you know,

01:16:45.480 feel like putting,

01:16:46.900 putting a shirt on

01:16:47.640 and kneeling

01:16:48.200 or went hand in hand

01:16:49.500 with,

01:16:49.740 um,

01:16:50.840 supporting Black Lives.

01:16:53.020 Did you ever think

01:16:53.940 you as a Black man

01:16:54.940 would have to justify 0.83

01:16:55.740 whether you believe

01:16:56.640 that Black Lives Matter

01:16:57.660 just because you wouldn't

01:16:58.560 put on a t-shirt

01:16:59.440 and take a knee?

01:17:01.160 No,

01:17:01.620 I,

01:17:01.760 I didn't.

01:17:02.300 And the,

01:17:02.520 and the question

01:17:03.040 definitely threw me off,

01:17:03.940 but it was already

01:17:04.520 a very,

01:17:04.940 like,

01:17:05.660 tense,

01:17:06.340 tense moment.

01:17:07.460 Um,

01:17:07.880 and,

01:17:08.320 you know,

01:17:08.560 if I had to answer

01:17:09.720 that question again,

01:17:10.900 my,

01:17:11.100 my first answer,

01:17:11.620 would be,

01:17:11.900 of course,

01:17:12.800 I'm Black.

01:17:13.420 And,

01:17:13.940 uh,

01:17:14.540 but yeah,

01:17:14.920 and,

01:17:15.120 and,

01:17:15.360 you know,

01:17:15.660 part of the problem

01:17:16.560 for me was that

01:17:17.940 it was an order.

01:17:19.740 It was made to seem

01:17:20.740 as though the only way

01:17:21.840 that you could support

01:17:22.720 Black Lives

01:17:23.340 in this moment

01:17:24.180 was to do

01:17:24.880 what we tell you

01:17:25.660 and that is to

01:17:26.400 kneel for the national anthem

01:17:27.700 and wear a Black Lives Matter

01:17:28.680 t-shirt.

01:17:29.260 And if you didn't do that,

01:17:30.660 then you were

01:17:31.220 immediately a bad person, 0.91

01:17:32.980 an evil person,

01:17:33.520 and you didn't care 0.99

01:17:34.200 anything about Black Lives.

01:17:35.560 But again,

01:17:36.140 looking at my own life

01:17:37.360 and,

01:17:38.020 you know,

01:17:38.220 I've been involved

01:17:38.840 in ministry

01:17:39.320 for four years now

01:17:41.100 and during that time,

01:17:42.060 you know,

01:17:42.220 I was involved

01:17:42.760 in ministry

01:17:43.200 and I've seen

01:17:43.860 countless lives

01:17:44.840 changed,

01:17:45.520 Black,

01:17:45.860 white,

01:17:46.120 and indifferent

01:17:46.560 through the gospel.

01:17:47.620 And so,

01:17:48.040 I had evidence

01:17:49.080 for myself

01:17:49.680 that that wasn't,

01:17:50.660 that wasn't the only way

01:17:51.560 to support Black Lives

01:17:52.540 and I knew a greater way

01:17:53.600 to support Black Lives

01:17:54.580 than,

01:17:55.000 than,

01:17:55.600 than that demonstration.

01:17:56.800 And so,

01:17:57.360 that,

01:17:57.560 that went into my decision

01:17:58.460 not to,

01:17:58.960 not to be a part of it.

01:17:59.960 What did you think

01:18:00.960 was non-gospel-like

01:18:03.220 about the,

01:18:04.240 the t-shirt

01:18:04.980 and the kneeling gesture?

01:18:07.320 Well,

01:18:07.880 non-gospel-like,

01:18:09.280 I just,

01:18:09.540 it's the,

01:18:10.100 it was the tone

01:18:10.760 of the message

01:18:11.380 to a degree.

01:18:12.660 It was,

01:18:13.260 it was,

01:18:13.880 it was definitely

01:18:14.600 an angry moment

01:18:16.160 and an emotional moment

01:18:17.880 and it,

01:18:18.240 it,

01:18:18.500 it was,

01:18:19.700 it was equating,

01:18:20.860 you know,

01:18:21.920 everybody on that side,

01:18:23.300 every white person,

01:18:24.160 every,

01:18:24.540 you know,

01:18:24.980 you know,

01:18:25.700 white person

01:18:26.420 to the,

01:18:27.200 the actions

01:18:28.140 of one person.

01:18:28.880 And I,

01:18:29.880 I didn't think

01:18:30.400 that that was right

01:18:31.040 and,

01:18:31.280 and ultimately

01:18:31.740 my answer was that,

01:18:32.560 look,

01:18:32.720 we all fall short

01:18:33.700 of the glory of God.

01:18:34.620 We all sin,

01:18:35.440 we all make mistakes

01:18:36.260 and,

01:18:36.720 you know,

01:18:37.500 Jesus said,

01:18:38.060 he who is without sin,

01:18:39.140 you know,

01:18:39.380 cast the first stone.

01:18:40.720 And so,

01:18:41.200 you know,

01:18:41.760 ultimately I believe

01:18:42.680 that if we can love

01:18:44.180 and forgive the way

01:18:45.520 that God loves

01:18:46.560 and forgives us,

01:18:47.580 which is in spite

01:18:48.240 of our faults,

01:18:48.960 in spite of our sin,

01:18:50.080 then we could have change.

01:18:51.160 And so looking at

01:18:51.960 the Black Lives Matter

01:18:52.740 organization and movement,

01:18:54.800 I,

01:18:55.040 I never felt comfortable

01:18:56.200 in it stating,

01:18:57.360 you know,

01:18:57.940 yeah,

01:18:58.200 I see what's going

01:18:58.860 on,

01:18:59.120 but I believe

01:18:59.580 that Jesus is the answer.

01:19:00.560 I never felt comfortable

01:19:01.420 in that sphere

01:19:02.200 saying that.

01:19:03.220 And so,

01:19:03.620 you know,

01:19:04.160 that's why,

01:19:04.860 you know,

01:19:05.040 and I'm pretty sure

01:19:06.020 that the Black Lives Matter

01:19:06.820 organization on that side

01:19:08.120 is,

01:19:08.400 is,

01:19:08.860 you know,

01:19:09.040 antithetical to,

01:19:10.060 you know,

01:19:10.380 Christ.

01:19:11.600 Wow.

01:19:12.420 You're an extraordinary person,

01:19:13.820 Jonathan Isaac.

01:19:15.040 Let me squeeze in

01:19:15.860 a quick break

01:19:16.400 and we will definitely

01:19:17.420 come back

01:19:17.860 with more

01:19:18.280 of your story.

01:19:19.420 So after the stand,

01:19:24.720 after the stand,

01:19:25.880 there,

01:19:26.300 there definitely

01:19:27.200 was fallout.

01:19:28.880 And you write

01:19:29.760 about how

01:19:30.340 the very next day

01:19:31.480 you were on board

01:19:32.060 the team bus

01:19:32.760 and everybody

01:19:33.400 gets a text

01:19:34.120 saying,

01:19:35.080 players only meeting,

01:19:36.420 like ASAP.

01:19:37.640 And that meeting

01:19:38.680 was about what?

01:19:39.820 That meeting

01:19:40.180 was about me.

01:19:41.460 And so we,

01:19:42.680 we get to the hotel

01:19:43.940 and we go into

01:19:44.780 this players only meeting

01:19:45.840 and,

01:19:46.200 and again,

01:19:47.200 that,

01:19:47.460 that kind of chaos

01:19:48.300 ensues of,

01:19:49.700 you know,

01:19:49.920 the guys are emotional,

01:19:51.120 guys are angry about,

01:19:52.540 you know,

01:19:52.920 what they're having

01:19:53.780 to face as well.

01:19:54.620 So with me standing,

01:19:55.600 you know,

01:19:56.140 people are going

01:19:56.780 at them for kneeling.

01:19:57.860 They're having to answer

01:19:58.500 questions in the media

01:19:59.420 about,

01:19:59.900 you know,

01:20:00.080 what do they think

01:20:00.700 about me standing?

01:20:02.140 And they feel,

01:20:03.240 they feel betrayed.

01:20:04.060 And so,

01:20:04.780 you know,

01:20:04.960 guys are saying that,

01:20:06.120 you know,

01:20:06.340 I'm hijacking the movement

01:20:07.600 and I'm making it about me.

01:20:10.040 And,

01:20:10.580 but,

01:20:10.760 you know,

01:20:11.000 that wasn't the feeling

01:20:11.700 of every single guy in there,

01:20:12.920 but,

01:20:13.120 you know,

01:20:13.440 that was the,

01:20:14.080 you know,

01:20:14.400 consensus.

01:20:15.100 And so we,

01:20:16.080 we kind of ended

01:20:16.760 with agreeing to disagree.

01:20:18.200 As I said,

01:20:18.800 listen,

01:20:19.100 y'all,

01:20:19.300 like I respected

01:20:20.520 your decision to kneel.

01:20:21.940 You guys are men,

01:20:22.660 you guys made your decision

01:20:23.640 and I only asked

01:20:24.540 for that same respect

01:20:25.460 in return.

01:20:26.180 I'm not standing

01:20:27.240 in,

01:20:27.640 in protest to your protest.

01:20:29.400 I'm standing

01:20:29.740 because this is what

01:20:30.520 I believe in

01:20:31.180 is ultimately going

01:20:32.140 to change the world.

01:20:32.800 Like I see,

01:20:34.020 I see what you see.

01:20:35.200 I'm not discounting

01:20:36.320 what happened to George Floyd

01:20:37.320 is tragic.

01:20:37.880 I'm not saying that,

01:20:38.880 you know,

01:20:39.100 it's,

01:20:39.320 it's not a bad thing.

01:20:40.220 I'm saying that,

01:20:41.140 you know,

01:20:41.300 what we're doing right now

01:20:42.580 with kneeling

01:20:43.060 and wearing that t-shirt

01:20:43.940 is not giving,

01:20:45.320 it's not the answer.

01:20:46.240 It's not going to be

01:20:46.800 the thing that,

01:20:47.460 that saves not only

01:20:48.940 our community,

01:20:49.520 but the world.

01:20:50.480 And so,

01:20:51.080 you know,

01:20:51.260 that's kind of

01:20:51.660 what we left it at.

01:20:52.300 It must have been

01:20:53.920 very challenging for you

01:20:56.180 given all you've told us

01:20:58.100 about your history

01:20:59.040 of wanting to be liked,

01:21:00.480 of not wanting to misstep,

01:21:01.820 of, you know,

01:21:02.580 wanting to do the right things

01:21:03.480 so you can fit in

01:21:04.260 and then having an experience

01:21:05.660 where you didn't feel,

01:21:06.440 feel like you fit in

01:21:07.260 and completely blamed yourself.

01:21:09.580 You know,

01:21:09.800 like the lifetime

01:21:10.940 that brought you

01:21:11.660 to that moment

01:21:12.240 was extraordinary

01:21:13.860 and was wonderful

01:21:14.880 and gave you the courage

01:21:15.500 to do it,

01:21:16.000 but those demons

01:21:17.040 were still there,

01:21:17.820 I'm sure,

01:21:18.780 and,

01:21:19.220 and must have made it

01:21:20.380 a very,

01:21:21.280 I don't know,

01:21:21.660 somewhat of a scary choice.

01:21:24.220 Yeah,

01:21:24.420 absolutely.

01:21:25.140 It was tough

01:21:26.080 and,

01:21:26.640 you know,

01:21:26.940 like I said,

01:21:27.720 a lot of thought

01:21:28.580 went into it

01:21:29.200 and a lot of the thought

01:21:30.280 went into it

01:21:30.960 in terms of

01:21:31.660 what was going to happen

01:21:32.820 afterwards

01:21:33.360 and,

01:21:34.160 you know,

01:21:34.540 I almost had to

01:21:35.500 gear myself up

01:21:36.500 for,

01:21:37.120 you know,

01:21:37.600 the backlash

01:21:38.140 and the people

01:21:39.000 that are called friends

01:21:40.060 and,

01:21:40.320 and,

01:21:40.920 you know,

01:21:42.000 mates to,

01:21:43.020 to,

01:21:43.320 to not like me anymore

01:21:44.400 or think I was

01:21:45.780 against them

01:21:46.520 or,

01:21:46.840 or,

01:21:47.400 you know,

01:21:47.480 all the name calls

01:21:48.280 and everything

01:21:48.640 that has,

01:21:49.080 that has happened

01:21:49.560 over the time,

01:21:50.080 but,

01:21:50.380 again,

01:21:51.000 I,

01:21:51.260 I do believe

01:21:52.380 in what I stood for

01:21:53.540 and,

01:21:53.780 and I knew

01:21:54.100 that I wasn't

01:21:54.520 standing alone

01:21:55.100 and so,

01:21:56.160 yes,

01:21:56.340 there was a ton

01:21:57.120 of negativity

01:21:57.660 but there was

01:21:58.320 so much

01:21:59.120 positivity as well

01:22:00.660 and people

01:22:01.120 who were encouraged

01:22:02.020 and,

01:22:02.420 you know,

01:22:02.840 found their boldness

01:22:04.060 in me standing

01:22:04.840 and saying,

01:22:05.420 I believe that same message

01:22:07.200 and I'm going to be

01:22:08.460 willing to stand up

01:22:09.380 and declare it

01:22:10.280 no matter if I'm

01:22:11.320 liked or disliked.

01:22:12.440 People within the NBA?

01:22:14.780 Well,

01:22:15.280 I mean,

01:22:15.560 I,

01:22:15.840 just Christians at large 0.51

01:22:16.920 but,

01:22:17.820 you know,

01:22:17.940 I,

01:22:18.080 I did even have,

01:22:19.140 you know,

01:22:19.380 conversations with,

01:22:20.240 different athletes

01:22:21.000 in the NBA

01:22:22.360 and soccer

01:22:23.120 and,

01:22:23.560 you know,

01:22:23.680 kind of all over

01:22:24.300 the country

01:22:24.840 who said,

01:22:25.880 listen,

01:22:26.140 I want to do

01:22:27.020 the same thing

01:22:27.520 because I believe

01:22:28.260 what you believe

01:22:28.920 but I'm,

01:22:29.760 I'm terrified

01:22:31.000 about what's going

01:22:32.280 to happen

01:22:32.620 and so,

01:22:33.460 you know,

01:22:33.660 I told them

01:22:34.060 the same thing

01:22:34.500 that my pastor

01:22:35.040 told me the night

01:22:35.740 before.

01:22:36.120 He said,

01:22:36.520 you cannot stand

01:22:37.660 for God

01:22:38.200 and God not stand

01:22:39.140 for you.

01:22:39.860 You know,

01:22:40.140 I wasn't standing

01:22:41.040 for a political

01:22:41.720 movement

01:22:42.200 or a side

01:22:43.800 or anything like that.

01:22:44.560 I was standing

01:22:45.140 because I believe

01:22:45.780 that Christ is the answer 0.90

01:22:46.740 and so he said,

01:22:47.940 if you do that,

01:22:48.600 then God has to keep you

01:22:49.540 and so that's,

01:22:50.060 that's the message

01:22:50.560 that I told

01:22:51.040 to those other guys

01:22:51.740 and,

01:22:52.280 you know,

01:22:52.340 we had a,

01:22:52.860 a player right here

01:22:54.120 in Orlando

01:22:54.480 who plays for the

01:22:55.220 soccer team,

01:22:55.940 MLS,

01:22:56.640 and this is a white guy

01:22:57.460 and so,

01:22:58.040 for him,

01:22:58.640 you know,

01:22:58.860 you could,

01:22:59.160 you could say

01:22:59.520 it was even harder

01:23:00.060 for him to do it

01:23:00.680 but after having

01:23:01.620 a conversation,

01:23:02.320 he,

01:23:02.480 he went on

01:23:02.960 and did it

01:23:03.540 and,

01:23:03.800 and then he's okay.

01:23:05.220 I wonder if it's harder

01:23:06.520 for a white guy.

01:23:07.360 I don't,

01:23:07.580 because the,

01:23:08.100 the, 0.92

01:23:08.620 the black men 0.76

01:23:10.640 or,

01:23:11.080 and women

01:23:11.500 who have heterodox views

01:23:13.440 on this issue

01:23:14.540 get it so bad.

01:23:16.620 I mean,

01:23:16.900 they just get harassed

01:23:18.640 and called the worst names.

01:23:20.600 So it's,

01:23:21.800 it just seems like,

01:23:22.680 I mean,

01:23:22.800 I've had so many

01:23:24.120 black thinkers,

01:23:25.680 intellectuals,

01:23:26.460 thought leaders,

01:23:27.340 athletes,

01:23:28.160 you name it,

01:23:28.560 on this show

01:23:29.180 who,

01:23:30.180 they just,

01:23:30.620 they,

01:23:31.120 they get excoriated

01:23:32.320 when they don't march

01:23:33.320 to the party line

01:23:34.100 and it's,

01:23:35.220 painful.

01:23:36.460 Yes,

01:23:36.640 it's definitely not easy.

01:23:37.980 It definitely takes a,

01:23:39.080 a bit of courage

01:23:40.680 and boldness

01:23:41.240 and again,

01:23:41.700 just,

01:23:41.920 just believing in

01:23:42.900 what you believe in

01:23:44.000 and,

01:23:44.200 and even,

01:23:44.660 even the people

01:23:45.220 who do say those things.

01:23:46.240 I don't,

01:23:46.620 I don't,

01:23:47.100 I don't hate those people.

01:23:48.180 I don't,

01:23:48.600 you know,

01:23:48.940 wish,

01:23:49.420 wish,

01:23:49.720 wish bad upon them.

01:23:50.660 I'm,

01:23:50.940 I'm open to having

01:23:51.900 a conversation with anyone

01:23:53.120 and so if someone's not willing

01:23:54.720 to have a conversation with me

01:23:55.980 and just wants to call me names

01:23:57.260 then,

01:23:57.800 you know,

01:23:57.940 that's them.

01:23:58.600 But,

01:23:58.900 you know,

01:23:59.140 I,

01:23:59.400 I know what it is

01:24:00.380 that I believe in.

01:24:01.440 You're such a good person.

01:24:02.520 I'll spew some of my hate

01:24:03.660 over on them.

01:24:04.720 No,

01:24:05.140 just kidding.

01:24:05.720 I know that's not what you want.

01:24:07.920 I'm not as involved as you are,

01:24:09.240 Jonathan.

01:24:09.520 I'm working on it.

01:24:10.160 Okay.

01:24:10.700 So you,

01:24:11.880 you write this in the book.

01:24:13.820 Oh,

01:24:14.080 I love Doc.

01:24:14.980 You write,

01:24:16.420 um,

01:24:17.180 one of the guys barked,

01:24:18.880 uh,

01:24:21.000 hold on a second.

01:24:22.060 Okay.

01:24:22.300 He says,

01:24:22.960 well,

01:24:23.160 I refuse to kneel next to him,

01:24:25.600 meaning you next game during the anthem.

01:24:27.800 I'm going to stay in the locker room.

01:24:29.560 No man.

01:24:30.300 Another player objected.

01:24:31.100 We can't change what we're doing.

01:24:32.260 Everyone has to do the same thing,

01:24:33.520 or it's just going to be a bigger story.

01:24:35.020 Are you going to stand again?

01:24:36.260 They say to you.

01:24:37.460 Yeah.

01:24:38.220 I say after a deep exhale and that's that everything stays the same.

01:24:43.280 Another slow walk to my hotel room.

01:24:45.700 I broke down crying on the phone with Doc.

01:24:48.180 As I recounted what had happened,

01:24:50.380 he quieted me and said,

01:24:51.800 they knelt for what they believe in.

01:24:54.260 And you stood for what you believe in.

01:24:57.000 So perfect.

01:24:57.700 That's so he's like an angel on your shoulder.

01:25:01.860 He is right.

01:25:02.860 Doc is,

01:25:03.260 Doc is the man.

01:25:04.120 And I would not be able to do any,

01:25:06.460 any of the things that I've done if it wasn't for,

01:25:08.340 you know,

01:25:08.640 having him in my ear and in my corner.

01:25:10.820 Um,

01:25:11.300 but yeah.

01:25:11.680 And,

01:25:12.020 and even,

01:25:12.260 even in that moment of,

01:25:13.260 of,

01:25:13.920 of breaking down,

01:25:14.680 it was like,

01:25:15.300 you know,

01:25:15.500 me being a little kid all over again of like,

01:25:17.820 I did something wrong.

01:25:18.920 And I don't know if I handled that situation the right way.

01:25:21.480 And should I have said something differently?

01:25:22.900 But ultimately,

01:25:23.960 you know,

01:25:24.180 in that moment,

01:25:24.940 as heated as it was nothing that I was going to be able to say was going to,

01:25:27.920 you know,

01:25:28.120 win any of them in that moment.

01:25:29.720 Um,

01:25:30.420 but you know,

01:25:31.140 he,

01:25:31.320 he,

01:25:31.520 he kind of just,

01:25:32.180 you know,

01:25:32.660 dropped the mic,

01:25:33.660 you know,

01:25:33.840 they,

01:25:34.000 they did do what they,

01:25:35.140 what they ultimately believed in.

01:25:36.280 And you did what you believed in.

01:25:37.420 And,

01:25:37.560 and you know,

01:25:38.340 that you let the cards fall where they may.

01:25:40.320 And what happened after that?

01:25:41.700 Because there was kneeling every night,

01:25:43.700 you know,

01:25:44.100 for until everything got shut down.

01:25:46.380 So what happened after?

01:25:48.120 So the story takes a big turn.

01:25:50.400 Um,

01:25:50.900 when the next game,

01:25:52.420 uh,

01:25:52.740 after I decided to stand in the bubble.

01:25:54.140 So I stood for a second time that game,

01:25:56.780 I tear my ACL.

01:25:58.100 And so this,

01:25:59.140 you know,

01:25:59.560 sets off another rampage of comments and,

01:26:03.440 you know,

01:26:03.740 people saying a knee for a knee and God did that and all these different

01:26:06.960 things.

01:26:07.280 And so it,

01:26:08.120 it was a,

01:26:08.960 it was a really tough moment.

01:26:10.180 Um,

01:26:10.940 because even,

01:26:11.600 even in myself,

01:26:12.300 I'm thinking,

01:26:12.920 why,

01:26:13.240 like,

01:26:13.480 why,

01:26:13.880 why,

01:26:14.400 why let this happen?

01:26:15.560 Why,

01:26:15.800 why,

01:26:16.140 why now?

01:26:17.060 Um,

01:26:17.340 you know,

01:26:17.560 I knew I stood for you.

01:26:18.600 Like,

01:26:18.800 why would you allow this?

01:26:20.360 Um,

01:26:21.040 but over time I found,

01:26:22.560 I found clarity and I found purpose in it because if I didn't get

01:26:26.460 injured,

01:26:26.840 there wouldn't be a book.

01:26:28.000 There wouldn't be,

01:26:29.080 um,

01:26:29.760 you know,

01:26:29.960 my story of people being able to,

01:26:31.820 to grab it and for it to,

01:26:33.000 for it to live on forever and for people to be encouraged and find the,

01:26:36.860 uh,

01:26:37.180 find the courage in Christ to stand up for what they believe in because

01:26:40.080 of this book.

01:26:40.780 And so,

01:26:41.520 uh,

01:26:42.140 I know that ultimately God always has a purpose for everything.

01:26:44.760 And I had,

01:26:45.340 I had to learn that it wasn't something I just grabbed overnight and I'm

01:26:48.040 like,

01:26:48.160 everything is okay.

01:26:48.860 It was tough,

01:26:49.500 you know,

01:26:49.740 in the moment,

01:26:50.300 but you know,

01:26:51.020 being able to step back and start the rehab process and,

01:26:53.940 and even being able to identify with other players that are injured

01:26:56.900 right now and being able to talk to them and call them when they go

01:26:59.660 through the different things.

01:27:00.640 Uh,

01:27:01.100 I can see the purpose of God in it all.

01:27:04.100 Wow.

01:27:05.000 That had to be tough,

01:27:06.320 right?

01:27:06.520 You,

01:27:06.760 you could see the pain on your face in that video of the injury.

01:27:09.260 And I,

01:27:09.760 I mean,

01:27:09.980 I know you were taken off in a wheelchair and,

01:27:11.700 and the crying was open.

01:27:13.460 It would have to be on that kind of a,

01:27:14.700 an injury after that much stress.

01:27:16.940 My gosh.

01:27:17.620 Right.

01:27:17.880 So it's like,

01:27:18.720 but you really do have the perspective of everything is a gift,

01:27:22.420 you know,

01:27:22.900 and it's sort of driving you.

01:27:23.860 If you have that connection to God and you nurture it and you reflect on

01:27:28.220 what each of these moments in your life means,

01:27:30.040 you can find the connection,

01:27:32.020 right?

01:27:32.200 It's there.

01:27:32.840 And it's not just looking on the bright side.

01:27:34.340 It's trying to find meaning in,

01:27:35.940 in the events of your life.

01:27:37.540 Right.

01:27:37.960 And,

01:27:38.140 and again,

01:27:38.500 it's,

01:27:38.720 it's not something that happens overnight.

01:27:40.260 Like I was distraught when it,

01:27:42.820 when it first happened,

01:27:43.580 but as I've been able to kind of go through the process and look back,

01:27:46.940 I say,

01:27:47.220 wow,

01:27:47.480 like I can see why I can see why you allowed it.

01:27:50.740 I can see why we're here,

01:27:52.080 especially as I'm writing this book and I,

01:27:54.380 and I know it's going to encourage people.

01:27:55.880 I know it's going to point people to what's ultimately going to change

01:27:58.480 people is the,

01:27:59.180 is the gospel is Jesus Christ.

01:28:00.540 And so I'm like,

01:28:01.680 I get it.

01:28:02.620 I get it.

01:28:03.860 So you see,

01:28:04.720 I mean,

01:28:04.880 I'm curious because that was the same summer that we saw people get with

01:28:08.880 the protests and the,

01:28:10.340 you know,

01:28:10.700 the violent protests against cops and some people disturbing folks at

01:28:15.160 restaurants outside,

01:28:16.480 making them raise the fist.

01:28:18.180 I mean,

01:28:18.300 it was just disturbing and alarming stuff.

01:28:20.280 We watched that summer.

01:28:21.660 You're watching all of that.

01:28:22.980 And what are you thinking?

01:28:25.100 Well,

01:28:25.520 I'm,

01:28:25.700 I'm thinking,

01:28:26.460 you know,

01:28:26.820 that's a part of the reason why,

01:28:28.440 you know,

01:28:29.180 what that organization has is not sufficient for the salvation of the

01:28:34.240 community.

01:28:34.620 They're wanting to say,

01:28:35.960 and you know,

01:28:37.240 ultimately the,

01:28:37.880 the,

01:28:38.040 the war for that matter.

01:28:39.120 And so,

01:28:39.920 you know,

01:28:40.600 that's just what I thought.

01:28:41.480 I,

01:28:41.620 it's,

01:28:41.780 it's almost like it,

01:28:42.580 it didn't surprise me because it,

01:28:45.780 there was so much anger.

01:28:46.820 There was so much,

01:28:47.660 you know,

01:28:48.220 hate for the other side being spewed and,

01:28:50.400 and,

01:28:50.660 and just anger and anger only begets anger and hate only begets

01:28:54.560 hate.

01:28:55.520 And ultimately love is the only way that you can change that.

01:28:58.140 And so I think that was a moment for love,

01:29:00.420 but it's,

01:29:00.900 it's something that's,

01:29:01.700 you know,

01:29:01.920 extremely hard to do.

01:29:03.180 And the only reason that I want to love in these times,

01:29:07.380 in these situations is because of the way that God has loved me.

01:29:10.360 And so if you haven't experienced what it is to be loved past your

01:29:13.700 faults,

01:29:14.080 it's going to be hard to love someone past their faults.

01:29:16.880 And so,

01:29:17.680 yeah.

01:29:19.360 Black Lives Matter has been,

01:29:21.100 it's,

01:29:21.460 it's status as a charitable organization has been shut down in several

01:29:24.120 states.

01:29:24.460 Now they've been accused of activities that certainly seem to amount to

01:29:28.360 a potential fraud.

01:29:30.000 Patrice colors has admitted using donations for her personal use and

01:29:33.520 enjoyment.

01:29:34.100 She's got three multimillion dollar homes. 1.00

01:29:35.940 The person who co-founded Black Lives Matter.

01:29:38.260 Do you feel given all that in a way,

01:29:40.720 do you feel vindicated?

01:29:41.620 No,

01:29:43.440 I mean,

01:29:43.840 cause at the end of the day,

01:29:44.720 that's,

01:29:45.060 that's,

01:29:45.440 it's,

01:29:45.780 it's,

01:29:46.140 that's terrible.

01:29:46.920 It's,

01:29:47.100 it's,

01:29:47.300 it's tragic.

01:29:48.100 It's,

01:29:48.260 it's,

01:29:48.740 you know,

01:29:49.200 people,

01:29:49.900 there are so many people who,

01:29:51.800 you know,

01:29:52.620 if you put the organization aside,

01:29:54.500 there are people who,

01:29:55.260 who believed in,

01:29:56.220 you know,

01:29:56.520 fighting for the,

01:29:57.420 you know,

01:29:58.580 the,

01:29:58.720 the rights of,

01:29:59.400 you know,

01:29:59.620 African Americans in this country.

01:30:00.960 And so,

01:30:01.820 you know,

01:30:02.460 for them,

01:30:03.140 I,

01:30:03.400 I,

01:30:03.700 I'm sure there's a feeling of,

01:30:05.260 of anger and,

01:30:06.360 you know,

01:30:06.960 betrayal by what's going on.

01:30:08.720 And so,

01:30:09.340 you know,

01:30:09.520 I wouldn't take that as a moment to kind of glory in it.

01:30:11.980 I feel terrible.

01:30:12.760 And it's not,

01:30:14.020 it's not something that I would say I'm surprised by.

01:30:17.200 And again,

01:30:17.680 I just,

01:30:18.400 you know,

01:30:18.660 people and,

01:30:19.760 and,

01:30:20.000 and,

01:30:20.540 you know,

01:30:21.040 legislation and all these different things is not going to be the thing that saves,

01:30:24.200 you know,

01:30:24.880 in an individual's heart.

01:30:26.300 And so,

01:30:26.880 you know,

01:30:27.540 that's why I just continue to,

01:30:28.680 to walk and kind of,

01:30:29.660 you know,

01:30:29.880 share my message.

01:30:31.340 Well,

01:30:31.740 never one to shy away from a fight.

01:30:33.560 You had another one coming your way and that was over the COVID vaccine.

01:30:38.380 And we covered that on this show too.

01:30:40.780 You're basically a co-cast member.

01:30:42.580 You were covering me and I didn't even,

01:30:44.380 I didn't even know Megan.

01:30:45.880 No,

01:30:46.360 you didn't.

01:30:47.040 You had other more important things to do.

01:30:48.680 So you had some doubts about the COVID vaccine and whether you needed it.

01:30:52.820 And you had had COVID,

01:30:55.020 right?

01:30:55.160 You had natural immunity and you knew that.

01:30:57.960 And I just remember somebody getting in your face and asking you,

01:31:00.440 and you could just give such a thoughtful answer on,

01:31:03.720 you know,

01:31:04.180 all the places you've been intellectually thinking about it and why you decided

01:31:07.960 it really wasn't for you.

01:31:09.400 And the headlines in the papers were,

01:31:12.120 Oh,

01:31:12.360 he said he watched some Trump rallies and decided not to take the vaccine.

01:31:16.000 It was like completely misleading,

01:31:18.480 fake news.

01:31:19.380 And they're trying to paint you as some like MAGA guy who just has the cap,

01:31:24.040 the cap on and is like,

01:31:26.120 screw the vaccine.

01:31:27.200 So what,

01:31:27.600 what was the truth about all that?

01:31:28.820 For me,

01:31:30.920 that was definitely the first time that I kind of was like,

01:31:33.360 Oh,

01:31:33.540 fake,

01:31:33.820 fake news really is a thing.

01:31:36.260 But,

01:31:36.660 but yeah.

01:31:37.040 So,

01:31:37.220 so,

01:31:37.500 you know,

01:31:37.820 when,

01:31:38.020 when COVID first started,

01:31:39.480 you know,

01:31:40.060 often,

01:31:40.620 you know,

01:31:40.820 everybody is,

01:31:41.660 is so gripped with fear,

01:31:43.740 you know,

01:31:44.180 everywhere.

01:31:45.020 And,

01:31:45.180 you know,

01:31:45.600 understandably so with the,

01:31:46.860 you know,

01:31:47.000 the pictures that were coming out of China and all these different things that

01:31:49.640 were going on.

01:31:50.160 It's like people were terrified.

01:31:52.680 And as I just begin to kind of,

01:31:54.800 you know,

01:31:54.980 you know,

01:31:55.260 first it started off with,

01:31:56.360 with Trump and,

01:31:57.300 you know,

01:31:57.400 he,

01:31:57.660 he was,

01:31:58.500 he was he was talking about,

01:32:00.440 you know,

01:32:00.620 getting the vaccine and all these different things.

01:32:01.980 And everyone was like,

01:32:03.340 heck no,

01:32:03.940 I would never trust that thing in a million years.

01:32:06.440 And then with the turn of the presidency,

01:32:08.560 everything just flipped.

01:32:09.600 And it was like,

01:32:10.620 you know,

01:32:10.860 this,

01:32:11.160 this thing is going to be mandatory and all these different things.

01:32:13.400 So for me,

01:32:14.300 it was,

01:32:14.720 it was kind of easy for me,

01:32:16.040 kind of just looking out to take,

01:32:17.500 just take a step back.

01:32:18.320 And I'm like,

01:32:18.760 okay,

01:32:19.400 let's think about this thing.

01:32:20.660 What are the people saying?

01:32:21.620 They're saying that,

01:32:22.340 you know,

01:32:22.780 right now there's a 99.97 survival rate.

01:32:26.020 You know,

01:32:27.140 I can see,

01:32:28.080 you know,

01:32:28.280 on Twitter and different things that the,

01:32:30.060 even the conversation around natural immunity is being shot down.

01:32:32.920 They're not talking about it.

01:32:35.380 You know,

01:32:35.920 just the craziness on Twitter and people being upset and,

01:32:39.860 and demeaning people who are hesitant and all these different things.

01:32:42.200 And so in taking my step back,

01:32:43.460 I said,

01:32:43.740 look,

01:32:43.940 okay,

01:32:44.640 I am,

01:32:45.420 I'm healthy.

01:32:47.160 I one,

01:32:47.960 I've already had COVID.

01:32:49.020 I had already done some research.

01:32:50.200 I actually connected with a doctor out at UCLA who was,

01:32:54.320 you know,

01:32:54.540 getting in trouble because he wouldn't take it and then ended up getting fired.

01:32:58.060 And so I was asking him a lot of questions and learning,

01:33:00.200 you know,

01:33:00.360 on my own.

01:33:00.960 And so I said,

01:33:01.400 look,

01:33:02.000 I'm healthy.

01:33:02.580 I'm in the best shape of my life.

01:33:03.760 I don't have any comorbidities.

01:33:05.600 I've already had COVID.

01:33:06.920 I have a level of natural immunity.

01:33:09.780 I'm okay.

01:33:10.820 And I said,

01:33:11.540 you know what,

01:33:12.000 for me,

01:33:12.580 I don't see the wisdom in opening myself up to the possibility,

01:33:16.880 albeit rare of having a severe reaction to the vaccine and still possibly

01:33:22.080 catching COVID and passing it on anyway.

01:33:25.020 And so,

01:33:25.420 so that,

01:33:26.340 that,

01:33:26.580 that was my synopsis.

01:33:28.080 And I kind of was just like,

01:33:29.120 to me,

01:33:29.460 that's fair.

01:33:30.140 And,

01:33:30.640 you know,

01:33:30.780 if anybody else is scared or worried about,

01:33:33.440 you know,

01:33:34.380 their,

01:33:34.800 their health and they should go get the vaccine.

01:33:36.700 And more power to them,

01:33:37.900 but I don't think this is right for me.

01:33:39.600 And then also seeing people's religious and medical,

01:33:42.280 you know,

01:33:42.720 exemptions being denied.

01:33:43.900 It just,

01:33:44.580 it was just distasteful and,

01:33:46.380 and people getting fired and all those things.

01:33:48.320 So I just said,

01:33:48.960 you know what,

01:33:49.200 this is not for me.

01:33:50.140 And then that's when the Rolling Stone article dropped where,

01:33:53.980 you know,

01:33:54.580 the,

01:33:54.760 the,

01:33:55.020 the team had reached out and said,

01:33:56.420 there's this,

01:33:56.860 there's this reporter for the Rolling Stone.

01:33:58.360 He wants to interview.

01:33:59.280 And we have a great interview.

01:34:00.740 Like this guy loves me.

01:34:02.920 Like we're cool.

01:34:04.160 We're chatting it up.

01:34:04.940 He's like,

01:34:05.380 Oh,

01:34:05.520 I agree with you.

01:34:06.160 All these different things.

01:34:06.840 Just a real,

01:34:07.500 I'm thinking a genuine conversation.

01:34:09.120 And I share with him the same things that I just shared with you.

01:34:11.980 And the,

01:34:12.820 the,

01:34:13.300 the article drops and it says,

01:34:15.080 Jonathan Isaac came to his,

01:34:16.500 you know,

01:34:18.020 cold,

01:34:18.340 you know,

01:34:18.520 vaccine hesitancy by watching Donald Trump press conferences and studying black

01:34:23.620 history month.

01:34:24.120 And then I waited for people to die to make my decision.

01:34:26.800 And I'm like,

01:34:27.920 what?

01:34:28.160 That's literally what it says.

01:34:29.760 I was so,

01:34:30.880 I was so angry.

01:34:33.220 I was so angry.

01:34:34.400 And I was like,

01:34:35.540 how is this even possible?

01:34:37.020 How is this even fair?

01:34:38.300 And that's when,

01:34:39.120 again,

01:34:39.340 like another veil of like,

01:34:41.440 Oh man,

01:34:41.960 this is bigger than a vaccine.

01:34:43.360 This is,

01:34:44.160 you know,

01:34:44.340 this is obviously political.

01:34:45.520 This is obviously biased.

01:34:46.820 This is obviously about protecting an agenda.

01:34:49.940 And that's when I'm like,

01:34:51.040 okay,

01:34:51.440 full stop.

01:34:51.960 Like,

01:34:52.080 this is bad.

01:34:52.940 And so I'm on the phone with my pastor with doc that night.

01:34:56.500 And I'm like, 1.00

01:34:57.460 people are on Twitter calling me crazy and stupid. 1.00

01:35:00.200 And I sound stupid based on this article. 1.00

01:35:02.220 And he's like, 0.98

01:35:03.120 well,

01:35:03.600 you have an opportunity because the next day was media day with the team.

01:35:07.700 So he's like,

01:35:08.100 you have an opportunity to clear the air.

01:35:09.600 If they ask you about it,

01:35:10.420 then just share.

01:35:11.360 And so that's what I did.

01:35:12.500 And the video goes viral,

01:35:14.280 has like 8 million views in a week.

01:35:15.740 And people are like,

01:35:16.980 Oh,

01:35:17.160 he sounds,

01:35:17.740 he sounds reasonable.

01:35:18.560 And I'm like,

01:35:19.380 yeah,

01:35:19.560 thank you.

01:35:20.400 So can I tell you that that's such an empowering moment because you have a

01:35:23.940 microphone too.

01:35:24.960 You have more power than this reporter whose name nobody knows at,

01:35:28.420 at Rolling Stone.

01:35:29.460 And this is what drives me nuts when powerful athletes or movie stars or

01:35:34.180 what have you start crying about what victims they are when the press does

01:35:37.980 what the press does.

01:35:38.740 And I realized the press is terrible.

01:35:40.220 Trust me.

01:35:40.940 I realize,

01:35:41.600 but it's like,

01:35:42.600 you have a microphone.

01:35:44.220 You're not some,

01:35:45.460 forgive the term,

01:35:46.680 but nobody,

01:35:47.700 some,

01:35:47.900 no name.

01:35:48.560 In the middle of the country who cannot get on CNN every night,

01:35:51.480 who cannot get to a microphone.

01:35:52.780 You have power.

01:35:54.500 And so I have very little tolerance for athletes who are like,

01:35:57.520 Oh,

01:35:57.620 the media is meaner.

01:35:58.460 I don't want to deal with the media.

01:35:59.540 It's like,

01:36:00.200 use it, 0.82

01:36:01.060 humiliate them,

01:36:02.460 set the record straight.

01:36:03.480 You don't,

01:36:04.140 you don't have to let them bully you.

01:36:05.760 That's why I love it.

01:36:06.560 It's like yet another empowering moment for you.

01:36:08.860 And it mattered.

01:36:09.800 That's what we saw.

01:36:10.620 That's what we ran.

01:36:11.380 You setting the record straight on the fake news reporting,

01:36:14.180 which by the way,

01:36:15.160 wasn't only anti,

01:36:16.360 you know,

01:36:16.940 you because of your vaccine position,

01:36:18.620 but made sure to point out,

01:36:20.260 uh,

01:36:20.800 that you were proudly Christian,

01:36:23.100 right?

01:36:23.260 Like deeply religious.

01:36:24.880 Oh,

01:36:25.480 deeply,

01:36:25.980 deeply religious and proudly unvaccinated.

01:36:28.360 My God,

01:36:29.140 horrible.

01:36:29.740 Well,

01:36:29.840 that's,

01:36:30.140 that's not okay for the writers at Rolling Stone.

01:36:32.540 So let me ask you this.

01:36:33.760 And that doesn't even sound like me anyway.

01:36:35.720 And so when I saw the whole proudly unvaccinated, 0.96

01:36:37.800 I'm like,

01:36:38.660 that doesn't even sound like me.

01:36:39.880 So go,

01:36:40.600 go ahead.

01:36:40.900 Sorry.

01:36:41.360 So you are Christian.

01:36:43.060 You are courageous.

01:36:44.760 You kind of sound conservative.

01:36:46.800 So politically,

01:36:48.300 where are you?

01:36:51.200 What I've tried my best to do is to let my Christianity,

01:36:55.180 um,

01:36:56.420 guide me on,

01:36:57.480 you know,

01:36:57.880 voting and,

01:36:58.700 and,

01:36:58.940 and different things.

01:36:59.760 And,

01:37:00.160 you know,

01:37:00.640 so what I've stood for,

01:37:01.780 or what I haven't stood for,

01:37:02.840 I think it,

01:37:03.380 you know,

01:37:04.000 you let people pick from that,

01:37:06.140 what they,

01:37:06.520 what they may.

01:37:07.560 I like that.

01:37:08.500 I like that answer.

01:37:09.200 You're sort of,

01:37:09.700 you know,

01:37:10.140 it's like smart because,

01:37:11.340 you know,

01:37:11.420 the old Michael Jordan's Republicans buy sneakers too.

01:37:13.980 There's no reason to declare your partisanship or what have you.

01:37:17.500 There's no reason yet,

01:37:18.620 but the NBA cannot last forever.

01:37:21.720 And there could be,

01:37:23.420 there could be,

01:37:24.260 you know,

01:37:24.380 you could preach.

01:37:25.280 You've done that.

01:37:26.160 Some of that.

01:37:26.600 I know you're ordained now,

01:37:28.380 but you could also run for office.

01:37:31.080 And I wonder whether you've given any thought to that.

01:37:34.320 You know,

01:37:35.100 I,

01:37:35.360 I have heard that comment a lot.

01:37:37.880 Um,

01:37:38.440 and I don't,

01:37:39.480 I don't even know,

01:37:40.320 like,

01:37:40.760 you know,

01:37:41.120 when,

01:37:41.480 when I see what people have to go through,

01:37:43.520 you know,

01:37:44.560 today on net political,

01:37:46.460 it's like,

01:37:46.980 I don't know if I would be,

01:37:49.080 you know,

01:37:49.740 up for subjecting myself to something like that.

01:37:51.940 But at the same time,

01:37:53.300 um,

01:37:53.980 I see the need,

01:37:55.560 um,

01:37:56.380 for,

01:37:56.840 you know,

01:37:57.760 leaders who are,

01:37:59.300 you know,

01:38:00.300 that,

01:38:00.500 that are,

01:38:00.760 that are willing to speak and,

01:38:02.260 and,

01:38:02.500 and,

01:38:02.880 you know,

01:38:03.180 can speak and,

01:38:04.120 and can be vocal and have a moral compass and,

01:38:06.540 and,

01:38:07.080 and,

01:38:07.460 and,

01:38:07.720 and,

01:38:08.120 uh,

01:38:09.820 you know,

01:38:10.140 courage and,

01:38:10.920 and,

01:38:11.240 and,

01:38:11.520 and all of that.

01:38:12.340 And so,

01:38:13.080 and so I would say it's,

01:38:14.300 it's not something that I would throw away,

01:38:16.300 but right now I'm,

01:38:17.440 I'm,

01:38:17.720 I'm just playing ball and I'm just trying my best to,

01:38:20.040 to walk out my,

01:38:21.160 you know,

01:38:21.440 Christianity,

01:38:21.940 the best I know how I want people to,

01:38:23.980 to get this book and kind of learn more about who I am and how I got into this position and kind of go from there.

01:38:29.520 You're still with the magic.

01:38:31.400 Yes.

01:38:32.400 Okay.

01:38:32.740 And is there any,

01:38:33.820 again,

01:38:34.060 I know nothing about basketball.

01:38:35.200 Is there any talk about trading you?

01:38:38.380 I saw some article like maybe they'll trade him.

01:38:40.500 Is that within your control?

01:38:41.820 And would you want to be traded?

01:38:43.940 Not,

01:38:44.420 not within my control.

01:38:45.580 I've,

01:38:45.980 I've definitely seen a lot of it,

01:38:47.420 but it honestly,

01:38:48.720 it could be the,

01:38:49.360 the least of my worries.

01:38:50.860 You know,

01:38:51.060 I love Orlando.

01:38:51.760 I love playing here.

01:38:52.900 I love the team.

01:38:54.080 You know,

01:38:54.540 if it comes down to me going somewhere else,

01:38:56.440 because that's what they want,

01:38:57.600 then that's what they want.

01:38:58.320 But I haven't gotten any inclination that I'm going anywhere.

01:39:00.880 So I'm ready to gear up for next season.

01:39:03.280 Oh man.

01:39:04.080 Well,

01:39:04.500 you're lucky you're in Florida from the vaccine standpoint and for a lot of reasons.

01:39:08.240 So hopefully they'll keep you.

01:39:11.100 I was very much.

01:39:11.960 I was in Florida.

01:39:12.740 Yes.

01:39:13.380 All right.

01:39:13.620 Last question.

01:39:14.280 How about,

01:39:14.800 uh,

01:39:15.300 like a family?

01:39:16.480 How's your,

01:39:17.020 you know,

01:39:17.160 what's happening at the home life?

01:39:18.860 Cause we,

01:39:19.480 we need,

01:39:20.080 we need more upstanding,

01:39:22.180 lovely,

01:39:22.900 courageous Christians with their messages.

01:39:25.360 So we've,

01:39:26.240 we've been married seven months now.

01:39:27.760 And so no,

01:39:28.760 no,

01:39:29.100 no baby on the way yet,

01:39:30.340 but you know,

01:39:31.100 it's definitely in the talk.

01:39:32.040 So we're excited,

01:39:32.900 but we're excited to enjoy marriage for,

01:39:35.000 you know,

01:39:35.300 a quick second as well.

01:39:36.700 And so,

01:39:37.140 you know,

01:39:37.680 definitely,

01:39:39.020 uh,

01:39:39.240 definitely talking about it.

01:39:40.700 That's smart.

01:39:41.140 And if you stay in Orlando,

01:39:42.300 Disney world is just a stone's throw away.

01:39:44.080 And as soon as we unwoke-ify them,

01:39:45.880 you can go.

01:39:48.920 Sounds good.

01:39:50.080 Jonathan,

01:39:50.600 good luck with the book again for our audience.

01:39:52.520 It's called why I stand support him,

01:39:55.660 support his courage,

01:39:56.420 his family,

01:39:56.980 and our pals at the daily wire and their mission by buying this book.

01:39:59.860 You check a lot of good boxes by buying this book.

01:40:02.320 I'm going to buy it too for a bunch of people.

01:40:04.240 Uh,

01:40:04.620 thank you again and good luck with it.

01:40:06.100 I got it right here too.

01:40:07.200 So thank you so much.

01:40:08.180 Nice.

01:40:08.540 Yeah.

01:40:08.800 It's got a good cover.

01:40:09.540 I like it stands out all the best.

01:40:12.580 Oh,

01:40:12.960 did you love Jonathan Isaac?

01:40:14.680 I mean,

01:40:15.080 I,

01:40:15.640 he's extraordinary.

01:40:17.740 Uh,

01:40:18.100 just a privilege to be able to bring you people like that.

01:40:20.360 Buy his book,

01:40:21.180 buy it,

01:40:21.420 buy it,

01:40:21.620 buy it.

01:40:21.880 And then tomorrow don't miss the show because Glenn Lowry,

01:40:24.540 he's back by popular demand,

01:40:26.460 including my own.

01:40:27.740 Remember the Glenn Lowry speech on America,

01:40:30.240 on America and our role in the world.

01:40:32.320 And why it matters and pushing back on the narratives that have been spread around about our country.

01:40:38.540 We have a very exciting topic for him tomorrow.

01:40:40.960 So don't forget to download the show.

01:40:42.740 Okay.

01:40:42.960 Cause that way you won't miss it.

01:40:44.120 Download the Megan Kelly show on Apple,

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01:40:50.520 smash that like button.

01:40:52.420 Thanks everyone for listening.

01:40:56.200 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show.

01:40:58.140 No BS,

01:40:59.260 no agenda,

01:40:59.980 and no fear.

01:41:02.320 Bye.

01:41:10.880 Bye.

01:41:11.840 Bye.

01:41:13.320 Bye.

01:41:14.340 Bye.

The Megyn Kelly Show - May 18, 2022

Uncovering the UAP Mystery, and Standing For Your Beliefs, with Lue Elizondo and Jonathan Isaac ｜ Ep. 324

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